Marriage Builders
Posted By: BHFF Confront or not confront - 03/21/09 02:53 AM
I know. I know that my wife is having an A. She discussed with me 3 weeks ago that she was disappointed with our marriage and needed to work through some things. She said she wanted to work our marriage out. After she told me I did some snooping and saw the text messages between her and OM. They are very sexual. We have been to one counseling session and in a private conversation with the counselor he wants me to wait because he thinks she is getting ready to tell me. The 800 pound gorilla in the room that we aren't talking about is killing me. Wathcing her text him and chat on facebook (and hiding it from me is killing me. When should I confront and how?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/21/09 03:07 AM
Yesterday
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/21/09 03:11 AM
What about the counselor's opinion? I feel like she is about to talk about it, almost wants me to ask. I know that for us to start rebuilding the affair has to stop, but I dont confront well. Very scared and angry. Angry that I am such a pushover and know that if she says she will stop and wants to work it out then I will jump and say yes.
Posted By: InLikeFlynn Re: Confront or not confront - 03/21/09 04:07 AM
Tonight. Just ask if she wants to get something off her chest? If she says like what then just say the fact that you are having an affair. Just get it out there!!!
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/21/09 04:24 PM
Your counselor is not married to her.

Since you are not into confrontation. I would suggest you write her a letter and read it to her.

First tell her you know about her affair. Maybe like this.

First I want to tell you that I love you with all my heart. But I know that you are cheating on me with another man. I cannot explain how you have crushed me by this. You have betrayed our family, our love and our vows. I don't know how this was brought about. I felt that I was a loving, supportive and communicative husband. And that had you given me an indication that you were dissatisfied or that I was not meeting your emotional needs in some way, I would have moved heaven and earth to find out what those needs were and fill them. But instead of that you chose to defile our marriage by having sex with him, and you continue to do so now. Apparently our marriage was not important enough to you to concern yourself about my feelings. I have known about your affair for sometime, I was hoping and praying that you would come to me and confess. I guess your honesty is as bankrupt as your fidelity. Since you did not have either the honor or courage to confront the situation, you have left it up to me to expose this disgusting betrayal. Did you think I was an idiot? I will not allow you to cuckold me with this man.

As I told you I love you, and hope that we can reconcile our marriage, I am not naive about the depth of feelings you must have for the other man. So then I must put it to you plainly in my demands.

1. You WILL swear that you will never see him again.
2. You WILL tell me who he is.
3. You WILL write a no contact letter to him.
4. You WILL turnover to me all passwords to your phone and computer immediately.
5. You WILL live transparently, and honestly from now on. No more secrets.
6. We Will continue our marriage counseling.

IF you do not agree to these terms, and even though I love you. Do not think that I will just sit by and wait. I will divorce as soon as possible. Furthermore if we do reconcile, I am letting you know. That should I find out that you are ever unfaithful to me again, I will not hesitate, but will leave and divorce you immediately.

This is a hard line letter meant to hit her with both barrels. If you are not willing to make the demands. Don't read it to her.

Posted By: MrsFixIt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 10:23 AM
Just because you confront her, doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it. A lot of people I know don't like confrontation because they feel like they have to e a jerk. Just tell her that you want to rebuild also and in order to do that the two of you have to be completely honest with each other. Obviously you aren't going to leave her, so tell her if she has anything, anything at all she wants to come clean about, this is her chance. You will be as understanding as humanly possibly but she has to be honest AND has to be willing to put whatever it is aside in order to rebuild. You sound like you love your wife dearly and are willing to rebuild. Yes you are hurt but in order to get through this maybe she needs to feel like it is ok to tell you. Maybe she is afraid you will leave. I am in no way excusing what she did, don't get me wrong, but she may need a little nudge to get her talking. That is all I am getting at, but you do need to confront her.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 11:41 AM
Weird thing is the counselor and W told us in the first session was that I needed to stop repressing emotion and my feelings. W knows that I wear my heart on my sleeve but once it is hurt I hide my reaction. They both want me to express more and confront W when she makes me angry. But this is like going from a tricycle to Nascar in one day. I have this terrible guilt about violating her privacy. (what a [censored]).
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 11:46 AM
I know she has a ton of guilt (panic attacks, weight loss, no appetiite) In a weird way that makes me feel better. My fear is that when she knows what I know I will have to fight to convince her to stay because she has first hand family experience to what the A does to a family. The guilt and her feelings of not being good enough for me. The conflict in emotion is really hard.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 12:10 PM
Look BHFF, Cut your wife some slack. If she is going through all this, you need to man up and confront her. Please, she needs you, she wants you to get up in her grill and demand her to stop. Damn get angry. Don't yell and scream but for your marriages sake. If you can't form the words. Print what I wrote and read it to her with some intensity! Your wife is doing some other guy!
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
I know. I know that my wife is having an A.

Originally Posted by BHFF
We have been to one counseling session...

MC is basically useless if there's an A going on.

Tell your W that you know what's going on, and you'd prefer that it stop immediately. And read up about Plans A and B here - you should be gearing up to practice them.

Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 03:51 PM
FF stands for Firefighter BTW. It is weird. If your house was on fire I could roll up on a Fire truck pull on my gear and walk in and take care of whatever needed to be done with courage. (Courage-not the absence of fear, but doing what needs to be done in spite of fear) This scares me. Scares me down to the core. It has absolutely controlled my life since D-day. For a week every where I turned there was evidence I wasn't looking before. Internet searches, cell phone bills, actions I hadn't payed a lot of attention to. I am regaining control however. Not total control, the storm of emotion is confusing, but better. The turning point was when I broke down in front of my boys. Slowly the steel has started to return. The next kick in the [censored] was when I called her best friend. I didn't reveal what I know, and didn't ask her to reveal what she knew, I was just looking for hope. (I know BF is supportive of me, makes WS mad) That really pissed of WS. But it did open my eyes to the fact that I wouldn't want to be around me either. My actions and emotions were not reflecting who I was or who I am. So now I still struggle with the emotions, I still struggle with confronting her. And I agree I should tell her. I dont agree with MC. How can our marriage be saved (which WS says she wants) if there is another party in the mix? But I do need to time it when we can talk with no little boys underfoot, I do need to be in control (not of her, but of myself)

I started plan A. Now I am convinced to just be a Man (by my definition, loyal, honest, true to her, a friend she would want, good to my boys, and somebody I think I would want to be married to)
Thank you all for your replies and advice. Finding my strength has come from reading the things posted by other people.
Posted By: InLikeFlynn Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 04:18 PM
Quote
Now I am convinced to just be a Man


Starts with confronting your wife with what you actually know. She may actually be relieved to get it off her chest.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 05:33 PM
I know. When you havent confronted before, and when your wife has lived with bad examples of marriage in her life, the set up is more difficult. But I think everyone is right. The 800 lb gorrilla we are not talking about has to come out and come out soon. I am amazed after reading so much here and else where how much this does affect kids even before my DDay when I started to lose my mind. Perceptive little devils aren't they?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 08:47 PM
BHFF,

Your marriage is burning down, There is a passionate fire some other man has started in your wife's soul. It is in danger of burning up your whole family, The only thing that will put this fire out is to vent the affair by busting a hole in the roof of it to allow the heat to exit. Your wife is trapped in this fire. She wants you to save her and you are standing around watching the flames paralyzed wondering if she will come out on her own. She is waiting for you to save. Her burns are getting more severe as will the scars from this affair. Throw some frigging cold water over yourself, grab your axe and DO YOUR DAMN JOB FIREFIGHTER!
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 09:10 PM
WOW you know the right words. At work today, tomorrow.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 10:03 PM
GREAT!

If you haven't seen the movie FIREPROOF, watch it before you confront her. She may even confess. But one way or another you have to do it.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/22/09 11:22 PM
Weird thing-we did watch it. Without the drama some of it did apply to us, but I thought we were doing better then what was actually going on. Funny when I read these posts it is like we are acting from a script. We go down the actions, the words. People all over are not that different are they?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 12:20 AM
No they are not. When you're in it. You think no one has ever felt what your feeling. But they have. The MO of the cheater is always the same. You have to act on what is right. Not on your feelings.
Posted By: Bryanp Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 01:27 AM
I must ask you a question. If you were having sex with another woman and putting your wife's health at risk for STD's; do you honestly think that your wife would be too fearful to tell you that she knew you were cheating on her? I don't mean to be harsh but the fact that you know and say nothing which allows her to continue to have a sexualy affair with another man behind your back unabetted says a great deal about you. What in the world kind of a message you are sending? I am sorry but it sounds so pathetic that you are fearful of confronting your own spouse while she is cheating behind your back. What does it take for you to stand up to her? No consequences to her actions equals no motivatation to change. Again if the roles were reversed, I doubt she would be shaking in her boots and refuse to tell you that she knew and she insisted that you stop. How is your marriage supposed to grow if you refuse to confront your wife about what you know? It is bad enough that her actions show a complete lack of respect for you, but you compound this by your own lack of action. If you do not respect yourself then who will?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 01:38 AM
You know I went through all the emotions and feel like I went through them so fast. It really pisses me off I end up on an antidepressant and a sleep medicine. I obsessed over this and WS and MC thought I needed to be medicated. I feel like I had a right to those feelings and they were natural. But I spoke to my physician and he says the stress of this whole moment is more than anyone should have to bear and the Prozac is not going to hurt and may actually help control the emotions and keep me level headed. It may help when I start Plan A. The saddest thing I had to do is get tested for STD's. When that came into my head I almost said its over. But I realized I still love my wife and want this to work with all of my heart. The ball will be in her court.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 01:40 AM
No anything you say is helpful and probably things I have kicked myself for. When I looked at myself and saw that lack of respect it was time to make the changes. I agree and nothing anyone says is going to be too harsh.
Posted By: InLikeFlynn Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 05:46 AM
Quote
The ball will be in her court.

Well it would help your wayward wife to know what court you will be playing on! The hardcourt or the softcourt. If you get my drift. Its easier to keep your head in the sand on the softcourt, where you just hope the affair and OM go away on its on. Then there's the hardcourt. Which do you think has the greater chance of success? You can bet the OM/Boyfriend hopes you stay on the softcourt, so the affair will continue.

Still reading you last couple of posts....it still appears that you will continue on the softcourt. What are you afraid of? You need to kill this affair now! The longer this continues the greater the chance that her feelings for him become entrenched.
Posted By: optin1 Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
But I realized I still love my wife and want this to work with all of my heart. The ball will be in her court.
then DO IT today....Confront her. And PLEASE stop MC when the A is still on. It is a joke.
Posted By: armymama Re: Confront or not confront - 03/23/09 11:52 PM
So, if you have not already, "just do it". You aren't going to get anywhere by delaying.

AM
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/24/09 02:08 AM
HEY BHFF,

Did you keep the commitment you made to yourself and family? Did you confront her? Or is it going to go 3 alarm before you get the courage to cut a fire break around the affair. You aren't gonna get out of this without getting your hair singed, so I hope you are manning up.
Posted By: MrsFixIt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/24/09 07:02 AM
The panic attacks and weight loss are probably due to the fact that she knows you know and she is waiting out the calm before the storm. Let her have it and don't put it off. In the next counseling session when they tell you that say fine..."(Insert wife's name) I know you are having an affair and it stops NOW!" Sometimes, tough love it what they need most.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 01:29 AM
Hey BHFF,

I see you posting on other posts. Are you going to fill us in on your confronting your wife?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 01:50 AM
I apologize, we had a family issue that prevented us from talking last night. I worked today (till tomorrow AM), and am still dealing with the previous issue (we had to be with other members and I want to be alone with WS when we talk) but I know progress is being made with her. I started wearing my wedding band again (avoided it before because of fear of losing finger at work but better a finger then my wife) she gave me the smile that I remember the one that causes my heart to skip a beat. She is still conflicted I can tell but Thur is the night now gives us a chance for just us. I am still scared, I know it will be ugly. I am afraid she will say she is not good enough and not want to believe she is, she has just chosen the wrong path. This is going to be a long road isn't it. The support from people here is everything right now. I feel pretty isolated. The only people who know are here on this forum and my boss. I know that several above have been harsh and they are correct to be that way. Thank you for your support. Anyone who believes remember me in your prayers.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 02:26 AM
We will keep your feet to the fire BHFF. LOL. When you confront her. do it in the car. Not in your bedroom. You want close proximity so that she will cling to you and not bolt to another room. You may even consider taking her to a hotel room to confront her. DO NOT TALK ABOUT FORGIVENESS. THIS ABOUT THE AFFAIR, NOT YOU TRYING TO RESTORE THE RELATIONSHIP IN 5 MINUTES TO FEEL BETTER.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 03:19 AM
Thank you. What I want to say to her-
Honey I know that you are struggling with something right now and I want you to know that I love you. I will always love you no matter what. I know about your A with XXXX. I am feeling so many emotions right now I cant even tell what I feel for sure. But I know that when you are ready to come back to our family I will accept you and love u the same. We can look at this as a chance to make this a strong beautiful marriage when you are ready. I know that there are things I did in our marriage for you to have gone somewhere else. When you come back to me we will never let that happen again. While you are making your decision I will be the same man that you married except I will not neglect you or your needs again. I want you to be able to come to me and talk to me at anytime. I will be a strong father for our boys, and a loving supportive husband.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
But I know that when you are ready to come back to our family I will accept you and love u the same.

Weak.

Originally Posted by BHFF
We can look at this as a chance to make this a strong beautiful marriage when you are ready.

Weaker.

Originally Posted by BHFF
While you are making your decision I will be the same man that you married except I will not neglect you or your needs again.

Weakest

These are incredibly weak. And will virtually guarantee her continuing her affair if she wants to. First off. You don not say "when you are ready". You tell her "You will stop all contact immediately" If you give her leeway to continue by leaving it up to her, you are going to help her destroy your family. YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME RIGHTEOUS ANGER. SHE IS SCREWING ANOTHER MAN!

What if she is on the fence about her throwing her dumping you for him? Your kind of response will actually HELP her to remain on that fence and in that affair, until she is ready to decide to leave you.

YOU HAVE TO DRAW A LINE IN THE SAND. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION FOR HER.

Use my previous post.

First I want to tell you that I love you with all my heart. But I know that you are cheating on me with another man. I cannot explain how you have crushed me by this. You have betrayed our family, our love and our vows. I don't know how this was brought about. I felt that I was a loving, supportive and communicative husband. And that had you given me an indication that you were dissatisfied or that I was not meeting your emotional needs in some way, I would have moved heaven and earth to find out what those needs were and fill them. But instead of that you chose to defile our marriage by having sex with him, and you continue to do so now. Apparently our marriage was not important enough to you to concern yourself about my feelings. I have known about your affair for sometime, I was hoping and praying that you would come to me and confess. I guess your honesty is as bankrupt as your fidelity. Since you did not have either the honor or courage to confront the situation, you have left it up to me to expose this disgusting betrayal. Did you think I was an idiot? I will not allow you to cuckold me with this man.

As I told you I love you, and hope that we can reconcile our marriage, I am not naive about the depth of feelings you must have for the other man. So then I must put it to you plainly in my demands.

1. You WILL swear that you will never see him again.
2. You WILL tell me who he is.
3. You WILL write a no contact letter to him.
4. You WILL turnover to me all passwords to your phone and computer immediately.
5. You WILL live transparently, and honestly from now on. No more secrets.
6. We Will continue our marriage counseling.

IF you do not agree to these terms, and even though I love you. Do not think that I will just sit by and wait. I will divorce as soon as possible. Furthermore if we do reconcile, I am letting you know. That should I find out that you are ever unfaithful to me again, I will not hesitate, but will leave and divorce you immediately.

YOU HAVE ONE OPPORTUNITY TO SEND A STRONG MESSAGE. IF YOU BLOW IT BY BEING WEAK, AND BASICALLY TELLING HER "OH, YOU CAN SCREW THIS GUY UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO COME BACK TO ME"

DON'T BE A FOOL. IT IS NO "UNTIL YOU COME BACK TO ME"......ITS "IF" SHE COMES BACK TO YOU.

Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 01:21 PM
3 pages to discuss confronting an active wayward...

BHFF, do you know who this guy is? Do you know if he is married? Do you have contact information for people that are close to him?

You will NOT talk your wife out of having an affair. You have to be prepared to fight for your marriage.

You don't need to confront via letter, you need to do it in person, up close and personal. You do not threaten or make promises to leave that you aren't willing to keep or any of that nonsense. You tell your wife you know she is having an affair.

She will tell you "We're just friends." She'll add, "Our problems have nothing to do with him."

She'll be lying like a rug...

BHFF, there are two sides to Plan A. The carrot side of the equation shows that you can and will meet her ENs and deal with the issues in yourself that destroy her love for you (Love Busters). But the stick side of the deal is to establish boundaries that are clearly marked and enforced with consequences.

Now before you run off demanding anything, understand that a boundary is not a way to manipulate her and coerce her into acting like you want.

Your boundary=No OM.

The consequences of OM=you put pressure on the affair.

You don't pressure HER, you pressure the affair itself. If you pressure her, she will cling to OM more tightly by the hour until it becomes them against you.

So you find out who he is, where he lives and who his wife is. Then you gather the evidence that you have and expose the affair to his wife/family, her family/friends, their employer if they work together etc.

By now you should have read the Basic Concepts. If you haven't already read the Q&A columns regarding infidelity, do that too. I would also suggest you get a copy of Surviving An Affair(SAA) and read it. Buy one, borrow one or get one from the library to read and do it quickly.

I also suggest that you move you thread to the GQII forum for more traffic.

Just so you know, it is very rare in deed that a WW will end her affair simply because you have confronted her. It will be even more rare if writing her a letter will have much of an affect on it. You will not educate her out of the affair.

Plan A, both sides, might bring her around. The carrot side by showing her what a great marriage with you might look like and the stick side showing her that you will not sit idly by while she destroys your family.

If you want to save your marriage, you need a plan and that plan has to be more than finding the right words to say to get her to stop with OM and hoping that it will be before your family is in shreds.

Hang on, it gets even more bumpy from here on.

Let me ask you this...

If your family were trapped in a fire, how relentless would you be in your efforts to save them?

THAT is how relentless you must be to save your marriage. But you must never go off acting like a chump and making demands with no plan of action if she doesn't bow to your will. Get a real plan in place first, then pull the trigger.

And you don't have weeks or even many days to get rolling, so study, get a plan together and start saving her.

If you have the money or can find it somewhere, call the coaching center for an appointment with Steve or Jennifer. Either of them can help you focus on the details of what you need to do.

When you roll up at a fire you would never just jump off the rig and run in the front door of a burning building with no idea of where you needed to go or how you would keep yourself safe. And you would never try to fight a fire alone. This is a conflagration. You need a plan and you need someone helping you and watching your back so that mistakes you make don't cost you everything...

But if you spend very long figuring out what to do, your house will burn down around your ears...

Mark
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 01:55 PM
Mark, The reason for the letter is not to send it to her. BHFF is pretty meek and he will forget what he is saying or just cave.

He needs the letter so he can read it to her. There is power behind the written word. He can remain focused on what he means instead of meandering or responding to her. He's not going to send it to her.

She may not stop the affair if he confronts her with the demands I wrote.

If he tells her what he wants to tell her. Hell, he's endorsing the affair.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 02:33 PM
OTH,

I realize he needs to know what to say when he confronts her, but he needs to stop trying to find the right words and start acting pretty soon or she will make his decision for him. If she ends the affair based solely on what he says to her when he tells her he knows she is having an affair (which is all we're really talking about here) then he needs to write a book so the rest of us can read it to find out what we did wrong.

BHFF posted on Sunday. Today is Wednesday. No one has suggested SAA or calling Steve or Jennifer. No one has told him to get his evidence together and nobody has mentioned gathering enough intel to expose the affair.

The house is on fire and three days in we're discussing what we need to fight the fire..

BHFF, you tell her, I know about you and ____ and I want you to know that I will not sit by and watch as you destroy our family. Then you change the subject or leave the room. She will rant, rave, rage and scream loud enough to raise the roof. Count on it and know that it is absolutely according to script.

You have NO control over what she has done, is doing or ever will do. You only have control over YOU and YOUR actions.

Identify her ENs and begin to meet them. Identify your own Love Busters and get rid of them. Put pressure on the affair itself via exposure and refusal to finance it etc.

To do those things you need to know what her ENs are. You need to be able to tell what a love buster is and you need to know who to expose to and how to go about it.

If you use the wrong words when you confront her, you will not drive her away. If you use the right words when you confront her, you will not get her to agree to stop the affair. What you say when you confront hardly matters at all in the scheme of things. It will be your actions and how you conduct the battle against the fire that is consuming your wife that will matter.

I can tell you that NOBODY has ever had just the right words to confront a wayward spouse. There are no right words for something that is so wrong to begin with. But you need to get a plan together and begin to execute it soon or she will become more attached to OM by the hour.

Mark
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Mark1952
OTH,



If you use the wrong words when you confront her, you will
I can tell you that NOBODY has ever had just the right words to confront a wayward spouse. There are no right words for something that is so wrong to begin with. But you need to get a plan together and begin to execute it soon or she will become more attached to OM by the hour.

Mark


I have to cal BS on this remark. NOBODY? No one has ever stopped an affair by exposing it. You would have to be omnitient to make a statement like that.

There may be no right words. But there are most certainly wrong words. And a weak statement, basically telling her to think about not screwing this guy anymore. But if she decides to continue doing it "I will wait". That is horse hockey.

No one has control of another. But if you are saying that no pressure can be put to bear on this situation, other then meeting her ENs, you're just plain wrong.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 03:45 PM
My argument is not on whether or not to tell her to stop boinking the OM. My point is that he needs to get a plan into place and begin to do the steps that can lead to saving the marriage.

I will admit that using the word nobody is an absolute that I should not have used without the qualifier "almost" in front of it. But that is the case.

He needs to confront and not spend the next week trying to figure out just the right words. What are the right words to use when you challenge a wayward wife about her affair? Are there any?

If he is too soft, it will be harder to save his marriage than if he finds just the right words, but as long as the affair continues and nothing at all is being done or said, he stands NO chance to save his marriage unless he is willing to just allow it to go on until she ends it.

My suggestion is to simply tell her that he knows about it and then begin to act, based on evidence that he has gathered. And even that requires gathering that evidence as quickly as possible.

The threat to the marriage is the affair and not the lack of words to say to her when he confronts her.

Mark
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/25/09 04:22 PM
I concur. Confront now. Not later.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/26/09 10:27 PM
Tonight if I can keep up the strength. I think the prozac is dragging me down. Either that or the stress. By the time the boys are in bed it is all I have left to keep moving. BTW-went to second marriage counselor session last night. The A**hole (excuse my language )couldn't find his notes, couldn't remember even which couple we were. He is out. He let me walk out without the copay I think I wont even give it to him. He spent 30 minutes talking about how much trouble he has with insurance companies! I was so pissed last night I couldn't even think. Today it was worse. Feel like I have wasted this last week. My fear- she says OK now that you know it is over and I lose my family, because this would have ran its course and would have been over. Course I could still lose my family that I know. Please everyone pray for my strength.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/26/09 11:33 PM
Focus some of that anger on the woman who made it necessary to need a counselor. I hope that you read the letter I wrote (or something more direct and in your face then what you wrote. Good luck. We're all pulling for you. STAY STRONG.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 12:00 AM
BHFF,
Do realize that this A is a war? You're supposed the be the warior that kills the beast of this A!!
That is how you may have a chance to win your WW back into the M.

You don't sound up to the challenge. This is not going to be east BHFF, you're gonna have to roll up your sleves and get dirty here a bit.

Expose and confront the A immediately, unless you like the vision of your WW getting it on with someone else. A person, you claim to know!

Waffiling will find your WW and Om taking the A further undergroud, and she will sit on the fence and eat cake as long as you allow her to.

What would you do if you weren't afraid??????????

All Blessings,
Jerry


Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 08:54 AM
I did it, details to follow. Went well smile
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 10:46 AM
Finally confronted her just simply told her I knew, and she wanted to know how much. She admits to EA. After that it went really well. We talked for about 2 1/2 hours, smoked two pack of cigarettes (yeah I know get off my case) but we talked. About us , about what got us to this point. She agreed to end the messaging, w/ supervision, I did not ask her to quit her job. She offered but we would need other options. Lots of tears, not alot of yelling. She was baffled as to why I didn't come to her sooner. Yeah me too. The marriage counselor is out the door. We will find another, and she wants to go. Alot of what is going on is related to some self esteem issues on her side. All in all it went really well. I will continue to post. Everyone out there continue to do what you do.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
About us , about what got us to this point. She agreed to end the messaging, w/ supervision, I did not ask her to quit her job. She offered but we would need other options.

DO NOT FALL INTO THAT TRAP!

Take her up on the quitting the job thing, and FIND other options afterwards.

IF SHE STAYS IN CONTACT WITH THE OM, THE A WILL CONTINUE - END OF STORY!

BTW - she's likely lying to you about the extent of the A. It is WAY too early to trust what she says.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 12:36 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by BHFF
About us , about what got us to this point. She agreed to end the messaging, w/ supervision, I did not ask her to quit her job. She offered but we would need other options.

DO NOT FALL INTO THAT TRAP!

Take her up on the quitting the job thing, and FIND other options afterwards.

IF SHE STAYS IN CONTACT WITH THE OM, THE A WILL CONTINUE - END OF STORY!

BTW - she's likely lying to you about the extent of the A. It is WAY too early to trust what she says.
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto, Ditto

BHFF, now that the easy (yeah that's right) part is out of the way, the hard work begins......
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 02:31 PM
Look you don't lose weight and become emotionally unstable by having an EA. She asked why you didn't confront her earlier? Tell her that you will be scheduling a polygraph. Tell her that you are sure she wouldn't mind, and that it will help you get past the affair. You just want to be sure she is telling you the truth about the EA not going PA.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 02:39 PM
YOU ARE A FIREMAN THAT IS GONE NIGHTS AND SOMETIMES A COUPLE OF DAYS IN A ROW. YOU NEED TO WAKE UP TO THE POSSIBILITY OF HER SCREWING THIS GUY.

Now if we were right about you confronting your wife. Then it just makes sense to listen to us regarding the PA and the polygraph. There are two points to consider.

1. If she agrees, you can relax, move forward and work on your marriage.

2. If she won't take it. You can rest assured that she screwed him.

She obviously wants to stay married. So there is no reason not to press your advantage. If you don't find out. The worrying about it will poison your marriage.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/27/09 02:58 PM
one last thought. Marriage cannot thrive without honesty. If you don not find out everything about the affair. YOU ARE DECIDING THAT YOU DON'T WANT YOUR MARRIAGE TO BE BETTER. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS THE RESPONSIBLE FOR HOLDING HER FEET TO THE FIRE REGARDING WHAT SHE DID. IF YOU DO NOT EXPOSE IT ALL, YOU ARE TELLING HER THAT A LYING, DECEITFUL MARRIAGE IS WHAT YOU WANT.

CAPICE?
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 01:11 AM
[quote]
Finally confronted her just simply told her I knew,
Finally confronted her just simply told her I knew, and she wanted to know how much.
quote]

Well of course she wanted to know how much. If you had told her her you know ALL, she would have confessed to PA as well.
but you let her off the hook, once again, because you really didn't want to believe it was more than EA.

Recall what I said to you last reply, "What would you do, what would you insist on, if your weren't afraid?"

I know you're frightened BHFF, to hear anymore, but you will not R witout the whole and unabashed truth of exactly how deep this betrayal went.

Insist that she get tested for STD's and that you see the written results. You'll be surprized at the reaction that will get from her, and you may get the truth without a poly. She'll call you crazy, at which point you will reply, "people with nothing to hide, hide nothing." It's a condition(one of many) that she will need to comply with in order for you to forgive and trust again.

If she refuses, simular to poly, you will know that she is in panic mode, and never once gave a thought to an STD. My FWW didn't either, and I paid the price for it.

Finish the job BHFF, you're suited up in your armor, but don't give up the fight for the truth yet. If there is more, and I suspect there is, you will die the death of a thousand cuts, and regret your insufficient effort in all of this.

Drizle truth from your WW will seriously harm you. It will make R extremely hard and very looong. Just ask me. shocked

All Blessings,
Jerry

Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 01:17 AM

Quote
Finally confronted her just simply told her I knew, and she wanted to know how much
[b]


Well of course she wanted to know how much. If you had told her her you know ALL, she would have confessed to PA as well.
but you let her off the hook, once again, because you really didn't want to believe it was more than EA.

Recall what I said to you last reply, "What would you do, what would you insist on, if your weren't afraid?"

I know you're frightened BHFF, to hear anymore, but you will not R witout the whole and unabashed truth of exactly how deep this betrayal went.

Insist that she get tested for STD's and that you see the written results. You'll be surprized at the reaction that will get from her, and you may get the truth without a poly. She'll call you crazy, at which point you will reply, "people with nothing to hide, hide nothing." It's a condition(one of many) that she will need to comply with in order for you to forgive and trust again.

If she refuses, simular to poly, you will know that she is in panic mode, and never once gave a thought to an STD. My FWW didn't either, and I paid the price for it.

Finish the job BHFF, you're suited up in your armor, but don't give up the fight for the truth yet. If there is more, and I suspect there is, you will die the death of a thousand cuts, and regret your insufficient effort in all of this.

Drizle truth from your WW will seriously harm you. It will make R extremely hard and very looong. Just ask me. shocked

All Blessings,
Jerry

[/quote]
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 04:12 PM
Thank you shinethrough,
I am not as stupid as I had been. The keyloggers are in place, phone access is in place. I do know my wife and now that my eyes are opened I see things much more clearly and interpret her actions better. The pain is still there and I struggle with it. The signs were there and I wasn't paying attention. But isn't that a part of the overall problem in most marriages? (I am not condoning, forgiving, supporting or empathizing with the A) Distractions and loss of focus on the partner and stopping searching for what the other person wants and needs like you do when you are dating? We both know that we had stopped going to each other for emotional support and had stopped communicating. But now the ball is back in her court. She knows the conditons. She asked me to not confront him or his spouse. On the condition that all contact (except for work and that will have to be tolerated for a short while, sorry ouchthathurt) be stopped I will not go to his spouse. However I have the name address, phone number and email address and will not hesitate to contact. She also knows that I will contact their boss and inform them of the A. There has been a swing and I think it is withdrawal. Along with being more angry with me she has been more communicative of me. We talked again last night and that was painful because she was asking for space to straighten out her emotions dealing with the loss of the EA and the support it provided her while she was dealing with her own emotional problems. She knows I dont trust her right now and may not for a long while. I got a kiss before she left for work and it has been a LONG time since that happened. She also wore her wedding band to work, a change. So I know I am about to be pounded on but here are my thoughts-

This sucks.
What stress can do to someone.
Every man should go home and hug his wife and give her his full attention without distraction
Wives-see above.
What hurts worse not knowing or knowing?
I still love my wife and will be a better husband father and friend then I was.
Dont go to the first marriage counselor you find with out some investigation.
Why is happiness so hard to find for some people?

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 04:25 PM
"I am not as stupid as I had been."

Yes you are.

"She asked me to not confront him or his spouse. On the condition that all contact (except for work and that will have to be tolerated "

You refuse to expose OMW, refuse to expose Human Resources at work, allow contact to continue instead.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 04:36 PM
BTW she asked me to come visit her at work. That is also a change. Pound away, it keeps me vigilant.
Posted By: armymama Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 05:05 PM
Contact the OMW as soon as possible.

In my situation, I contacted OWH the same day I found out. He thanked me for telling him and also told me that in his wife's (my H's OW) previous A, the OW and OM had both begged him not to tell. So he didn't and regretted it for many months, right on up to the point where she set her sights on my H and ended up bedding him for seven months. What a lot of grief could have been avoided by all.

DO it.

AM
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 06:55 PM
BHFF,

You have no idea what you are dealing with.
If you want any chance at saving your M, you must put some trust in this board.
That, and and grow and pair real quick.

WW is not angry, she's actually been pretty sweet, you've seen some positive changes.
Why isn't she angry???

BECAUSE SHE HAS YOU WRAPPED AROUND HER LITTLE FINGER.

WW knows that her secret is safe with you. Why in the world would she be worried ?
This A will not end, it will just go further underground.

WW is not in withdrawl, way too quick, she knows that she will be able to see him again, and that is why she is not angry.

You don't make deals about exposure.

You just EXPOSE, no warning, just BAM.

You tell OMW, she has a right to know that some other woman is touching, feeling romantic with, and boinking her H.

Your WW will continue to touch, talk intimate with, and boink the other man.

NO OTHER MAN HAS A RIGHT TO SEXUALLY TOUCH YOUR WIFE. SHE IS YOUR WIFE, THAT YOU PROMISED TO PROTECT.

You also expose to her workplace, her family, your family. How old are your kids?

EXPOSURE is the cheapest ammo and most effective way of squashing an A.

Posted By: love2smile Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 08:41 PM
This is my first post on this board even though I have been reading here since around 2003. This situation is similar to what I went through 15 years ago with my wife.

We were married 5 years at the time and I knew something was wrong. One night I confronted here and after 3 hours of arguing she admitted she had feelings for a coworker. We hugged and decided to work on our marriage, spend more time etc..and from that moment on we did. We had 3 children at the time and she continued to work with OM for 3 more years. She said it was an EA (more obsessed by him due to the attention) and that she stopped having coffee with him. She did have lunch with him the year before while 9 months pregnant with our 3rd, but she called first to ask if it was alright with me then. At all times I could always reach her and she never went anywhere after work other then picking up kids (before so too) then home. At all company functions, before and after our talk, I was always present or she didn’t go. I originally told here that she had to quite that night which she agreed to, but I said nevermind a few days later. We seemed to be closer for at least the next 5 or more years.

Keep in mind we are till today considered the posterboy for the perfect couple by everyone that knows us (we also dated for 5 years before getting married). So why am I posting here under your thread? Because to this day a lot about that time doesn’t make sense to me. I wonder how much I really know about those days, and I wonder what else. There was no MB and no friends or family to talk to. There were no cell phone to trace either. We have grown closer than ever over the last 3 years, mostly because I stopped bringing up the past and spending more intimate time together (non-sexual). Our SF has always been great and frequent. We have since had more children and both just passed into our 40’s. There is much more, but let me stop to explain why I put this, my first post, here.

If there is anything that I leaned on this site it’s that there is indeed a fog around any WW. More so, however, there is a fog that clouds the judgement of some BS’s. You will to easily WANT to believe everything your WW says. Since she must also be petrified about opening up more to you, it becomes too easy for people to slip back into their comfort zones and use denial and avoidance in dealing with the A. Your reluctance to confront her shows this might be a bad characteristic of yours, which is completely understanding during this time. But now you know.

If it’s not completely honest, as in the kind of honesty taught on this site, it will never remain in the back round. What these other posters are telling you is that YOU CANNOT TRUST YOUR WIFE RIGHT NOW, regardless of what she says to you or how she acts. There is a great probability that her intentions are not as noble as you think. She asked you why you didn’t approach her earlier? Why didn’t she? She knew about the problem in greater detail then you, she avoided it then and chances are she is avoiding it now.

The worst sentence I can see from your last post is that she needs space. All that you have achieved is what Vittoria writes….your WW knows her secret is safe with you. Unless you want to have this come back to you another day, and believe me you don’t, Blow this up immediately. I wish I still had that opportunity, and you will lose it more with each day.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 08:44 PM
BHff, it's good to see you have confronted, but also sad to see that you took off your armor and laid it down, cause you are not nearly done here yet. However that's really up to you in terms of whether you want to save your M or not.

Your forgiveness and excusing your WW is way to premature and I hate to be the one to tell you, that you haven't even really scratched the surface yet.

There is much more to this A then you realize, and that is EXACTLY why your WW does not want you you to expose to OMW. If that happens, heaven forbid, the REAL truth of their involvement may come to the surface.

So I would suggest to you that you have laid down your sword way to early. The OMW needs to be told immediately, as in yesterday!! BHff, you cannot simply put blinders on and expect this to all go away. Ain't going to happen.

So once again, losing the fear to do the next best thing, what do you feel compelled to do?

If OMW knew everyting, would you not wish her to reveal the same to you?

Your wife cammot continue to work with OM. How disrespectful is that to you, the BS.

Here, from Dr Harley, sound familiar??

Quote
The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.


BHFF, thank you for the sevice you provide to your community and thusly, all of us. It's not easy being you.

Please be forewarned, this is not nearly the total truth yet.

Your WW should cease and desist her current job and continued contact with her lover. I used the word lover on purpose.

What will you do to save this M?

All Blessings,
Jerry


Quote
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 09:13 PM
BHFF,
As an aside, what you are doing is your best to "CONTAIN" the truth of your WW's and Om's affair.

Only truth and honesty is the solution to an A. Anything else is poison.

Pick your poison or save your M, Your choice.

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 11:19 PM
BHFF, I cannot believe that you have so little respect......for someone else's marriage. You are basically throwing the OMs spouse under the bus. You refuse to pursue whether they slept together. You will not tell her. FIRST OFF YOU HAVE TO TELL HER TO CONTROL HER HUSBAND.

YOU WOULDN'T HAVE CONFRONTED HER, IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE BETRAYED SPOUSES ON THIS BOARD. I HAVE REALLY LOST A LOT OF RESPECT FOR YOU.

WHAT IF THIS BAS**** HAS ANOTHER WOMAN. WHAT IF HE INFECTS HIS WIFE WITH AN STD. DO THEY HAVE KIDS? HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SHE CAUGHT A LIFE THREATENING DISEASE. AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AIDES. DO YOU KNOW THAT CHLAMIDIA CAN CAUSE CERVICAL CANCER. MY DAUGHTER HAD 3 BAD PAP SMEARS BECAUSE OF IT AND HAS TO TESTED EVERY 6 MONTHS FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. YOU'RE SUPPOSE TO BE A LIFE SAVER. I AM SO PI**ED AT YOU RIGHT NOW. I SINCERELY HOPE YOU ARE NOT A FIREMAN ANYWHERE CLOSE TO WHERE I LIVE.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 11:35 PM
Let me take a deep breath and cool down. (Breath)in (Breath) out.

LET ME PUT IT IN SELFISH TERMS SINCE YOU APPARENTLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE HEALTH OF A STRANGER. WHAT HAPPENS THE NEXT TIME YOUR WIFE GOES IN FOR A PAP SMEAR AND SHE COMES BACK POSITIVE FOR PRECANCEROUS CELLS? WOULD YOU CARE THEN? BECAUSE IF SHE DIDN'T USE A CONDOM AND WON'T CONFESS TO YOU ABOUT SLEEPING WITH THE OTHER MAN. WHICH SHE DEFINITELY DID. NO WOMAN JUMPS FROM AN EA TO WEARING HER RINGS AND KISSING YOU GOODBYE *BAM* WITHOUT SOME MAJOR GUILT AND NOT BECAUSE OF AN EA.



HEY BHFF. DID YOU EVER FOR A MINUTE THINK THAT THE OMS WIFE KNOWS IF THEY HAVE HAD SEX? MAYBE SHE SAYS "THAT WAS THE UNKNOWN HOTEL BILL ON HIS CARD" OR WHAT IF SHE SHARES THAT HER HUSBAND BANGS EVERY GIRL HE CAN. AND YOUR WIFE IT JUST ONE IN A STRING. "OH, YOU HAD BETTER GET YOUR WIFE TO GET CHECKED IMMEDIATELY. HE GAVE ME CHLAMIDIA, THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T HAD ANYMORE KIDS. THEY HAD TO TAKE OUT MY WOMAN PARTS. I WOULD HAVE LEFT HIM. BUT I NEED THE INSURANCE.

WAKE UP
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Confront or not confront - 03/28/09 11:49 PM
Ouch,

calm down, shouting doesnt do any good.

BHFF, welcome to MB. A firefighter huh? So is my DH.

Since it seems this thread is about infidelity, it might be a good idea, for BHFF to click on 'notify' under his first post and ask the mods to move it to GQ2 where it will get more traffic, and the vets who can help most.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 02:13 AM
Woa, didnt say I still had the blinders on. Like I said keyloggers are in place, and I will take other steps. I am rethinking the not contacting OMW not because of posts but as I thought through this I do think it is necessary. I appreciate all of the advice and I appreciate the passion of everyone's position. As the roller coaster goes up and down so do I. But- I do know my wife, better than I thought after I replay conversations in my head from the last 3 months. I want to believe it stayed without sexual contact but..... I am sure there was cybersex and we will see about physical. Go ahead beat me up.
Posted By: bigkahuna Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
What about the counselor's opinion?

Sack the counsellor.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 02:50 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Woa, didnt say I still had the blinders on. Like I said keyloggers are in place, and I will take other steps. I am rethinking the not contacting OMW not because of posts but as I thought through this I do think it is necessary. I appreciate all of the advice and I appreciate the passion of everyone's position. As the roller coaster goes up and down so do I. But- I do know my wife, better than I thought after I replay conversations in my head from the last 3 months. I want to believe it stayed without sexual contact but..... I am sure there was cybersex and we will see about physical. Go ahead beat me up.

Hi BHFF! Welcome to Marriage Builders. If you are interested in saving your marriage, the path is very NARROW. In order to save your marriage, she must end all contact with the OM. "Supervised" contact will not suffice. Changing the name of her contact to "business" is really cute, but not effective in ending an affair. Any contact with her lover will keep her triggered. The only way she can withdraw from the OM is complete and total no contact.

Now, I know that alot of men, to my great SHOCK, live in abject TERROR of their wives and too scared to set protective boundaries following an affair. But if you have the courage to stand up to your wife - and most men do not - you might want to explain to her this is what it will take to recover the marriage.

Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders: The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. Requirements for Recovery


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 02:58 AM
The odds of a marriage recovering while the affairees remain in contact are the same as an alcoholic recovering who continues to drink, but changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and goes to the bar every day.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 03:34 AM
I am sorry for flaming you. My daughter got HPV from a scum bag who cheated on her. And it put her through hell waiting for test results. So forgive me if I got hot about it. I am glad you are rethinking letting the OMs wife know about the affair. Think about this. You are a fireman who has to stay at the station multiple nights a month. So you don't know if your wife has been having sex with the OM while you are at work. But his wife will know that her husband just happens to have poker night (no pun intended) the same night you're at work. Or that he was at a business dinner until midnight on another night that you are at work. Don't you see. Your wife does not want you talking to her because SHE IS YOUR GREATEST ALLY IN STOPPING THIS AFFAIR. She will help you piece the 1000 piece puzzle together. The puzzle that you only have 500 pieces of. She has the other 500 pieces.

One thing has happened. you have given your wife and the OM time to get their stories straight. But its not to late. You need to interview your spouses separately and then you compare note. Please understand that you are new to this. There are others on this board like Melody and My revelation that have years of (unwanted) experience. In this. You need to look at this like it is a war to defend your marriage. Your wife's affair is the enemy. You must expose the affair to the light. No matter how painful it is. If you love your wife and you want your marriage. And if you want to insure every way possible that it won't happen again. You have stop worrying about your wife's feelings and start worrying about what is right and what works.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 03:23 PM
No, I understand your passion and thank everyone for their opinions and stories. Like I said now I need evidence for OMW. I have replayed so many conversations that my wife and I have had since she first told me (and before) she wasn't happy and if I would have been listening all along (or able to hear) she told me several times. My wife is a terrible liar anyway. Now all of you can laugh at that but really she is. We had a miscarriage in Nov and thought that some of the distance between us after that was due to the trauma from that. Trying to decide to try again how we felt about losing our child and everything that goes along with those emotions. The last six months have been emotionally draining for everyone. Work has been shorthanded so we both have been working extra. I am used to compartmentalizing alot of emotions in the line of work I am in, putting them aside until the job is done. We both do. I think the compartments got full or maybe we forgot to open them up. Thanks again everyone I will continue to update and ask for advice.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
No, I understand your passion and thank everyone for their opinions and stories. Like I said now I need evidence for OMW.

No you don't. Your WW has admitted to the A. That should be all you need. Even if at first the OMW doesn't believe you, it will plant the required and necessary seed of doubt for get to keep a really close eye on her H. The truth will eventually come out.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
No, I understand your passion and thank everyone for their opinions and stories. Like I said now I need evidence for OMW.

Didn't your wife admit to the affair? If she has admitted to the affair then you have your evidence. There is no reason to delay calling her, BHHS.


Quote
I have replayed so many conversations that my wife and I have had since she first told me (and before) she wasn't happy and if I would have been listening all along (or able to hear) she told me several times. My wife is a terrible liar anyway.

Yes, all adulterers say this. It is classic fogtalk. Sure, she was not happy in the marriage or she would not have had an affair but the main problem in your marriage is the affair. Nothing can get fixed obviously until she ends her affair.

Quote
I think the compartments got full or maybe we forgot to open them up. Thanks again everyone I will continue to update and ask for advice.

Like I said before, BH, if you want to save your marriage, the first thing that has to happen is that she ends all contact with her lover. Recovery is impossible until that happens.

I wish you the best.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 05:53 PM
Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 06:01 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
There are others on this board like Melody and My revelation that have years of (unwanted) experience.

I appreciate the compliment, but please do not lump me with MyRevelation. He espouses a very stupid strategy of kicking out wayward wives, which conflicts with what Dr Harley would recommend and what I know to be effective. I would never recommend my own D-Day experience to anyone who wanted to save their marriage. My marriage is together today IN SPITE of my own actions.

So what I talk about here are Marriage Builders concepts and Dr. Harley's expertise. I only know how to sell soft drinks, that is my expertise.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Confront or not confront - 03/29/09 06:25 PM
I'll have a cream or root beer soda with a scoop of vanilla ice cream.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 12:19 AM
So an update-

So far no contact other than work. We are working on communication and talking about all that goes on. I know but we can drop the quit work for now. That may be a option in a little time but for now just hold on. But it is hard. How does a person deal with the suspicion and paranoia? I have never not trusted my WW and these are hard emotions to deal with.And I realize that they are mostly self protection but wow. I always said that if my wife cheated on me I would be gone, but that is easier said than done. How do other BS deal with these feelings?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 12:34 AM
There is nothing we can do to help you if there is still contact, BHFF. All of the good communicating in the world will not compensate for continued contact.

Good luck...
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 12:44 AM
melody is right, you also will not out the man to his wife so that she can control him. You say there is no contact outside of work, but they can still have lunch. You say you never not been able to trust you wife. My friend, you are trusting her now. There connection remains. You have not confirmed a physical affair. Though with your schedule. The physical affair is assured. She could and still can have sex in your own home. Or go out on the nights when you work. I guess your mrs. dodged a bullet on this affair. This has been easy for her. All you have done is encourage her that she can keep you in the dark and you won't do anything to stop her. Very sad.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 01:00 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
So an update-

I always said that if my wife cheated on me I would be gone, but that is easier said than done. How do other BS deal with these feelings?

Leave her? You won't even make her stop talking to the OM. So they don't talk outside of work. I suppose they can't keep their relationship going in the 8 to 10 hours a day they spend together. She cuckolded you and you're hoping that her life isn't to disrupted. Trust me. Their affair continues. She has you handled and you won't tell the OMs wife. If they are still seeing each other 8 to 10 hours a day. They are still screwing each other, if not physically then mentally. good luck.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
How does a person deal with the suspicion and paranoia?
1) Eliminate everything that would cause suspicion, if you made a list, what would be on yours?

2) Do anything to end the A.

We all agree that these are horrible feelings, they will eat you up slowly, and you will become resentful and bitter.

Quote
And I realize that they are mostly self protection but wow.
Actually it's not self protection. If it were, there would be no limit to what you would do to protect yourself.

Quote
I always said that if my wife cheated on me I would be gone, but that is easier said than done. How do other BS deal with these feelings?
Many of us said the same thing. And we are all here sharing with you what we have learned, with what works and what does not.
We are here because we love our families. We vowed to protect them, even if it means being tough with them.

Did you contact OMW?

Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 01:53 AM
It is really sad when people think they can have contact and not continue the affair. We see the work excuse a lot. It doesn't matter. It won't stop until the contact ends. Period.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
How does a person deal with the suspicion and paranoia?...How do other BS deal with these feelings?

You can't deal with the suspicion and paranoia when the APs still work together. If sticking your head in the sand works for you, I suppose there is some negliable (sp?) amount of coping involved in that. For 8-10 hrs a day, you have no idea what sort of contact is going on. Dealing with these sorts of thoughts are hard enough when the APs don't work together. This is signing on for a meltdown.
Posted By: oceanspray Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 02:06 AM
I just read through your thread and please listen up! I was so fearful of calling the OW's H that I delayed and delayed. My WS had me snowed about not seeing her again or contacting her again blah blah blah. Yep he manipulated me so they could eat cake together! Also that it was just an EA only . . .(total lie). The emotions I went through. I was so unsure and wanted to believe him SO bad. I didn't know if she was married at first and then I found the information on whitepages.com . . . I still didn't do it and my family was furious! I still waited a few more weeks and sabbotaged my own marriage further . . . Finally, my brother called to the OW's H and the A fell apart. When the OW's H and I compared notes we discovered MUCH MUCH more. Then we became allies to save our families together. My story isn't over yet but that phase is. Thank God! I was just too fearful. PS - the first thing he said to me was . . ."why did you wait so long to call me"? What are you afraid of?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
But it is hard. How does a person deal with the suspicion and paranoia?

You get used to it and accept that you have signed on for this. This is a way of life you have chosen in order to avoid conflict. It is a hard life and there is no way to gloss that over. A couple of ways I can think of would be to start drinking alot or taking narcotics to drown out your feelings.

conflict avoidance is a very hard life... I could never do it.
Posted By: oceanspray Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 02:14 AM
PS - OW's H immediately called my H.( who was hiding out in a hotel in their hometown) and threatened that if he ever came near his wife again . . . You get the picture. He FOUGHT for his wife.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 04:40 AM
The more you read BHFF posts the better you understand that he is more afraid of confrontation then he is in love with his wife. He justifies his inaction by trying to show how loving and forgiving he is. Wrong. To put it into fireman terms he may understand.

The home of his marriage is engulfed in fire. And he sits at the door knocking, even though he knows his family is inside. He actually believes that he can put out the fire by holding his hands over his eyes and wishing it was gone. He reminds me of a child that crawls under his bed to hide from the fire. Very sad.

Posted By: oceanspray Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 01:55 PM
The thing is that he probably feels as I did a the time . . . If the spouse really wants YOU and not the OP they will make their choice. Meanwhile the suffering just goes on and on . . .
Posted By: baron_richtofen Re: Confront or not confront - 04/01/09 02:26 PM
BHFF,

I just went through your entire thread and have hope for you, but need to give you a little tough love.

My friend, you love your wife, that's very clear, but you need to remove the fear which has you paralyzed.

Let's get a few things clear: there is virtually zero chance that this affair of hers wasn't physical, especially if they work together.

Think really hard about your single days. Did you ever heavily flirt with a woman and make suggestive emails, letters, postings, and calls with a woman and NOT have physical things going on?

What are the odds that miscarriage wasn't your child?

You MUST remove fear from your actions. You're a fire fighter so you understand. Fear is a part of your job. But you don't let it control you, you control it. You walk into a burning building knowing full well the risks involved. Yet you do it because there are very specific steps you must take to combat a fire.

Those steps have been dictated and built by years of experience in fighting fires by yourself, your peers, and your predecessors.

So there are specific steps and procedures in place that exist for a reason.

Now, apply that to your current situation.

You're on a board with dozens of people who have been in your shoes, walked your walk, and understand the emotions you feel. We are able to think clearly while you have emotions clogging your thoughts.

So what do you do? Your first step is one which will upset her. I understand that you feel there is progress right now. I've been on this board long enough to get a good sense of when a man is being played by his WW and you, my friend, are a prime candidate.

The biggest lesson I've learned on these boards is that exposure not only works, it is essential.

You see, right now all you have is your trust for your WW that there is no contact. You're all alone in this and have no way of verifying that it is truly in place. You're not with her at work to really see if that is the case.

So it's easy for her. She knows you have your eye on her, so all she needs to do now is go underground. She can get a special cell phone to use when you're not around. She can talk to him at work or even meet up with him, all the while telling you that nothing is going on.

And you buy it because you WANT to buy it. I understand this better than anyone.

But you see, a WW lies. They rarely speak the truth. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see when dealing with your WW.

Get rid of this fear you have that she will get upset at your actions. Addicts get mad when you take away their crack pipe.

Look at her affair that way. You discovered she has a crack pipe. You're taking her word that she's not using it.

Well, time to destroy the crack pipe.

You MUST call the OMW. MUST. You will have an ally and you will hold the man who has been scr3wing your wife accountable for his actions.

Do not warn your wife that you will do this. She will tell everyone else and distort the truth that you're crazy and under a dellusion that she's having an affair and are unreasonable and jealous, etc.

Exposure is key to getting your marriage on the road to recovery. Read the stories on this forum if you don't believe me.

Waywards lie. I thought my wife was different and special. She's not.

You think your wife is different and we "just don't know her the way you do". Trust us, we've seen her before.

They all behave the same way.

They all hide their crack pipes.

Exposure is the light that ends the addiction.

Now, as for this idea that you're "invading her privacy" :RollieEyes:.

Get this idea into your head right now: You're not invading her privacy. You're invading her secrecy.

A lawyer might throw in your face that you are invading her privacy by spying on her. The response is simple, "No, I am uncovering her secrets, which is different. Her actions could lead to the destruction of our marriage and stick me with an STD. Sorry, secrecy is an attempt to hide destructive behavior. Privacy is shutting the door while using the bathroom."

So you MUST expose.

NOW.

Finish reading this and make that terrifying call to OM's wife. She deserves to know and you will have a powerful ally.

You should also isolate your finances. I was cleaned out by my WW.

You should do this until you can see that she is truly being open. A repentant and truly committed WW understands and accepts the fact that they are in the dog house. They understand that you have certain expectations she must meet to regain your trust.

You need to understand that wwes follow a leader. They don't follow a doormat. They will never just "wake up" or voluntarily surrender something which brings them so much joy (regardless of how destructive it is to you).

So expose. Like now.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:36 PM
I would like to apologize to everyone who has helped me and I did not listen. I have the solid proof of PA. I confronted OMW and OM tonight. WW is pissed. Now I am very scared. It did not end with me confronting her. Again my apologies to everyone. Now what?????
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
I would like to apologize to everyone who has helped me and I did not listen. I have the solid proof of PA. I confronted OMW and OM tonight. WW is pissed. Now I am very scared. It did not end with me confronting her. Again my apologies to everyone. Now what?????

Give yourself a break. Nobody wants to believe that there spouse is capable of cheating. Most of us have experienced the same denial - only to be punched in the face with the truth. WW is pissed. That is typical too. She will get over it. Now, take a breath and try to remain calm. Do you want to save your marriage? If so, don't kick your wife out. Is your wife ready to end the affair and have no further contact with OM?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Now what?????

Secure your finances. Take half of liquid assets and secure it. Cancel joint credit cards.

Her anger is not fatal. Her adultery IS.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:46 PM
I dont know how she feels. She is mad that I confronted him. I told her I would not if it stopped. It didn't so I did. Now she is mad that I confronted. Do I want to save my marriage? As stupid as I feel saying it yes. With all of my heart I want my marriage to be better than it was. I want my wife to find her love back. I want my family to be healed. I want my boys to have their mom back.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:54 PM
GOOD ! You want to try and rescue your marriage.

I encourage you to read *** THIS THREAD *** and take the suggestions you find there very seriously.

Now time to Plan A

NO FIGHTING
with your wife

When she tries to fight with you (she will), you say :"Let's talk later when you aren't so angry. Can I bring you some coffee?"

Do not leave your bed or your home, no matter what!

If your wife becomes out of control with her anger, call a neighbor in to be a witness. Many WW's have falsely accused their husbands of making threats.

Learn to listen to your wife rant and rave without reacting.
OK to make comments like "I see how this is upsetting to you." or "Adultery is a very emotional experience for everyone involved."

Say "adultery" and not "affairs".

Don't engage in "relationship" talks with a mad woman. (ever !)

I'll think of more later....


Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:55 PM
Help. I need everyone's help. She will be home in 4 hours from work. She is as mad as I have ever seen her. Will I lose her?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 10:59 PM
Is she wondering if SHE will lose you???

LISTEN - the OM will probably DUMP your wife once his wife is in the loop.

ANY future contact between WW and OM - call OM W right away.

The more pressure his wife puts on OM - the faster he will DUMP your wife.

And once she realizes OM DUMPED her ... she will be angry AT HIM.

It happens over and over this way.

KEEP the pressure on OM via his wife.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
GOOD ! You want to try and rescue your marriage.

I encourage you to read *** THIS THREAD *** and take the suggestions you find there very seriously.

Now time to Plan A

NO FIGHTING
with your wife

When she tries to fight with you (she will), you say :"Let's talk later when you aren't so angry. Can I bring you some coffee?"

Do not leave your bed or your home, no matter what!

If your wife becomes out of control with her anger, call a neighbor in to be a witness. Many WW's have falsely accused their husbands of making threats.

Learn to listen to your wife rant and rave without reacting.
OK to make comments like "I see how this is upsetting to you." or "Adultery is a very emotional experience for everyone involved."

Say "adultery" and not "affairs".

Don't engage in "relationship" talks with a mad woman. (ever !)

I'll think of more later....

Remain calm and polite. Be strong. No crying. No angry outbursts. No yelling. No insults. No judgement. Read Pepperbands advice again. It is exactly what you need to do right now. Do not discuss divorce or anybody leaving. Tell her that she can have some time to cool off before discussing anything with her. This is a huge decision. It should not be made in haste. You can't have a productive conversation when she is angry (temporarily insane).
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:09 PM
Forgive me if I rattle. I have two little boys I am playing with while I post. In a weird way I feel better now than I have in 3 weeks. I am scared to death, but at least I have a little control of what is going on around me. I dont want to lose my wife. I think this was a terrible thing for her to do but I still love her deeply and want US back. I will need all of your help with Plan A. No contact will be hard but we will see.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:10 PM
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:13 PM
Plan A is NOT a decision you and your adulterous spouse make together !!!

Plan A is a tool for the betrayed spouse to implement in order to try and stop the affair ~and~ attract the adulterous spouse BACK to the marriage

do NOT discuss this tool with the adulterous spouse

Plan A is YOUR weapon against infidelity !!! The adulterous spouse is ~for~ infidelity, not against it .... be careful NOT to reveal your secret weapon of Plan A !!!

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:13 PM
Stop lovebusting behaviors.

from the site:

Quote:



Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty


Posted By: black_raven Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:14 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Will I lose her?

BHFF no one can predict the future and there's no guarantee that your M can be saved. You can only put forth your best effort to try. Read Pep's post again. Remain calm but you need to be firm and toughen up. If WW gets out of control of abusive, remove yourself from the room. Let her freak out. You do not have to react with anger or tears. She will calm down at some point. If your emotions start to overhelm you, think of your boys and remember what you are fight for.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:14 PM
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.


time to take your OWN inventory

compile a list of things you historically contribute to the marriage that make the marriage work .... and do MORE of this

don't make announcements about what you are going to do ... just take action

DEMONSTRATE what an awesome spouse/contrubutor to the marriage YOU are

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:15 PM
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

re-visit the emotional needs questionairre on this site

if your spouse is ACTIVELY continuing their affair after discovery ... try to get the information about his/her emotional needs indirectly

take the questionairre answering ~as if~ you were your adulterous spouse

then take the top 3 needs and get a plan together to fill their most important needs ~when possible~

caution is required if your spouse scores high on sexual fulfillment as their emotional need ... if your spouse is sleeping with someone else YOU need to enforce the use of condom protection ... and even that is not foolproof protection you won't be exposed to a disease

GET TESTED for STDs every so often if you are having sex with a still cheating spouse

MOST people in an affair do NOT use protection <~~~ is's a fact you must face !
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:15 PM
Offering forgiveness and understanding.

by this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home

often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."

You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done.
You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.

you can word it something like this:

All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I inderstand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Forgive me if I rattle. I have two little boys I am playing with while I post. In a weird way I feel better now than I have in 3 weeks. I am scared to death, but at least I have a little control of what is going on around me. I dont want to lose my wife. I think this was a terrible thing for her to do but I still love her deeply and want US back. I will need all of your help with Plan A. No contact will be hard but we will see.

She has to agree to no contact with OM. Plan A is designed to show her that you are the better alternative. Exposure will help the no contact. Remember, she didn't leave you, she committed adultery. She wanted both. She didn't give you up for the other man. She might have been afraid of losing you and hurting you. Wait and see what she says when she gets home. Most importantly stay calm and strong.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:16 PM
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Exposure makes the infidel furious

stay calm
breathe

no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self

YOU stay cool

You will hear:

"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did."
"I am moving out now, thanks to you."
"You are getting OP in trouble at home."
"Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."

blah blah blah

You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.

You stay calm

You don't argue

You don't explain

You do not preach

You do not educate

~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact

YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....

if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...

remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary

Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:18 PM
I'm sorry BHFF, No one is getting any pleasure about you being wrong. First off, if you are afraid of her being angry because she is riding someones member, you are in sad shape. She has lost all respect for you, you cannot get it back by crying and fearing that you will lose her. Personally she would be out on her a$$ it was me. You need to man up. You need to tell her she stop or you out her to her whole work. You need be more concerned about your own self respect then your love for her. Because without self respect you won't have her love either.

And I am not talking about yelling or cursing. Keep a cool head. If she says "you ruined two families" calmly get up in her grill and tell her. "the moment you took off your panties and spread your legs for that man, is the moment you ruined two families", You have to display backbone. The way you have acted so far tells me that you may have never stood up to her b4. You will do it now, or you will lose her.

If she says "I'm leaving". Dispassionately say, "can I help you pack? If she says "I want a divorce" tell her "file and I'll sign". You now have seen just what putting her rings back on meant. If she takes them off again. Put them in a safety deposit box. If you stand strong, you have a chance of coming through this, if you let her eat cake you will slowly lose her. But this is all up to you. If you cower in front of her she will bolt. If you cling and cry she will bolt. If you stand strong and man up, you have a fair chance.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."

Wow! Do you have my livingroom bugged? Those are almost the exact words that my husband used on dday. When I offered a chance at forgiveness he was blown away and unconvinced. He didn't believe it right away but he stuck around to try.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Forgive me if I rattle. I have two little boys I am playing with while I post. In a weird way I feel better now than I have in 3 weeks. I am scared to death, but at least I have a little control of what is going on around me. I dont want to lose my wife. I think this was a terrible thing for her to do but I still love her deeply and want US back. I will need all of your help with Plan A. No contact will be hard but we will see.

God Bless you and your family
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
I'm sorry BHFF, No one is getting any pleasure about you being wrong. First off, if you are afraid of her being angry because she is riding someones member, you are in sad shape. She has lost all respect for you, you cannot get it back by crying and fearing that you will lose her. Personally she would be out on her a$$ it was me. You need to man up. You need to tell her she stop or you out her to her whole work. You need be more concerned about your own self respect then your love for her. Because without self respect you won't have her love either.

If she says "I'm leaving". Dispassionately say, "can I help you pack? If she says "I want a divorce" tell her "file and I'll sign". You now have seen just what putting her rings back on meant. If she takes them off again. Put them in a safety deposit box. If you stand strong, you have a chance of coming through this, if you let her eat cake you will slowly lose her. But this is all up to you. If you cower in front of her she will bolt. If you cling and cry she will bolt. If you stand strong and man up, you have a fair chance.

I don't agree with this advice at all. She is expecting you to want a divorce. That is why she lied about it. I wouldn't even talk about her leaving or divorce. In fact, when my husband mentioned divorce on dday, I told him that I would never agree to a divorce. That he would have to file and that I would fight it with everything that I could. I also had physical evidence that I would use in court. We are in a fault state. I told him that I didn't want a divorce and would do everything possible to make it the messiest most difficult divorce he had ever seen. I told him that it was a big decision and he owed me a chance to make it work after all the good years that we had. It helped that OW had dumped him by text message after I called her and told her that I would share my evidence with her husband if she ever contacted my husband in any way again.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:33 PM
WW might say: "I want a divorce."

YOU respond: "I don't do divorce. I will fight for our family."
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/03/09 11:42 PM
I guess you are the one who has to make the decision. You tried the loving supportive "I will love her back". Wrong. She does not respect you. At this point a lot of things are going said. Its called brinksmanship. You did exactly the right thing in confronting them. You chopped a hole in the roof of the affair and you let a lot of heat out of it. It will be much more difficult for them now. And regarding filing. A lot can happen between filing and signing. First off. He has to protect himself financially. She can charge and spend and he pays for half. He needs to at least talk to lawyer to find out what his rights are. There is nothing wrong with righteous anger if it is under control.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:16 AM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
I guess you are the one who has to make the decision. You tried the loving supportive "I will love her back". Wrong. She does not respect you.
Ouch,
At this point BFF is in Plan A, and that is making himself look better than the OM.
No, WW does not respect him now or she wouldn't be cheating .... but she will respect him later for fighting for his M.

BFF,
I'm sorry that you are back here. You feel better now because everyone has given you a plan that you can follow.

After exposure my WH screamed, was vile with adjectives, didn't want his name ran thru the mud,blah blah blah, even threw his glass of milk at me (it hit the window), but WS's change into monsters. They really do.

Ignore it, don't take it personally, we all know how hard this is.

Please don't use the comeback about the 'panties being taken off', that is not part of Plan A.

You can do this, you really can.

Like exposure works ... this will work too, just not overnight.

Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:27 AM
You may all feel that I am to confrontational. Maybe I opine just enough righteous anger to straighten his spine so he doesn't end up begging on his knees. He may not use my words. But hopefully it is in the back of his mind when she goes off on him.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:32 AM
BHFF,

You said
Quote
Help. I need everyone's help. She will be home in 4 hours from work. She is as mad as I have ever seen her. Will I lose her?


All I can say is laugh

OK! I can say something else... ALRIGHT

BHFF, you have done the single most important thing to save your marriage. Your W is hot, she is mad, she will never speak to you again, she will cherish her vows, she will be faithful, she will say you are a lousy husband.

Notice anything in that list??? Yup, she lies. What she says now in the negative is just a valid as her marriage vows were.

Here is a quote for you to consider.
Quote
The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.


She is NOT indifferent now and that means you have a better chance than since this mess started. When she yells, just nod knowingly and say to yourself "Yup, she is out of withdrawal and she is focusing on me...at last."

That is the point, you are her focus now, and that is the way it is supposed to be. As others have said, your marriage can survive mad, it cannot survive unfaithful.

You are doing just great, hang in there, you are about to learn about the famous "rollercoaster".

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
You may all feel that I am to confrontational. Maybe I opine just enough righteous anger to straighten his spine so he doesn't end up begging on his knees. He may not use my words. But hopefully it is in the back of his mind when she goes off on him.
I know. I slammed BFF earlier for the same reason.
He's got it now, or for now.

Just Learning is right BFF ... WW ready to stroke out, this is the desireable response. She will cool down.


Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:42 AM
Where did he confront them? I hope it was in the lobby of their work place.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by Just Learning
She is NOT indifferent now and that means you have a better chance than since this mess started. When she yells, just nod knowingly and say to yourself "Yup, she is out of withdrawal and she is focusing on me...at last."

EGG ZAK LEE
Posted By: black_raven Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:49 AM
If BHFF is in Plan FU than he can go to town. If he wants to try and recover the M, the best thing he can do it throw a raging WW off balance by being appearing calm and collected. During this inital confrontation she's not going to hear anything he says...her mind is already made up...he's the bad guy for exposing her. She can self implode or explode all on her own. WW is looking for a fight and won't know what to do with herself if he refuses to engage.

BHFF, don't offer WW help to leave. If she wanted to leave, she'd be gone already. If she wants to leave now, let her. You can not hold her hostage in your M.

She will hurl all sort of craziness your way. You can not afford to cave out of fear. But it is pointless to engage in a conversation with a crazy person.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:50 AM
No ouchthat hurt I will not take your advice and stoop to the level that you are suggesting. You are right. I needed to man up. That I did. But I will not participate in some childish game. I will be open and honest and ask for the same. I will be a good husband and father. (a better of both because now I am protecting my family) But Plan A is in effect. I understand the depth of your pain and feel for you. But now is the time to define "a man". A man is honest, trustworthy, and has integrity. A man stands up for those around him, defends himself and his family. A man will not belittle his spouse, will not treat her that way, no matter how she treats me. If she chooses to treat me that way then I need to get out and find someone who wants to be treated with respect and love, the way I want to be treated. So no I will not use your words, but have found my spine. We are deep in the bowels of the devil, fire is raging around us, and my crew is depending on me. I will use the same courage and determination that my crew would expect of me in this situation. Thank you ouchthathurt.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 12:51 AM
AMEN to that
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:01 AM
as always use what you can. And toss the rest. She's your wife. You sound a lot more composed now then you were a couple of hours ago. Call me the other end of the spectrum. Maybe I add a little balance?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:08 AM
For the story, the keylogger revealed what I needed to know. The first step I took was to block his number from her phone. Than I called him got lucky enough that his wife was sitting there with him and told him in no uncertain terms to go away, she heard so the heat is on him. I get a bit of guilty satisfaction from that, the fact you could hear the fear and squirming in his voice. Now I pray for their marriage and mine, and hope God can show us both the way. When she tried to text him it came back blocked and she called me. Oh boy is she mad. But she did agree to come home and listen to what I have to say. Calm cool collected.
Something like this-

You can earn my trust again.
I still love you.
We can have a better, happier marriage.
I will not apologize for what I did.
I did what I did to protect my family and my boys, nothing is more important in this world than you and those two hellions sleeping in their beds.

Pray for me!
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:10 AM
Maybe. Ouchthathurt I would walk into a burning building with you any day. But I think I might have to hold you back a little.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:13 AM
BHFF,

You are in a fire fight now, so just smile, nod and do the job at hand. Let her rage, she is not indifferent and she is focusing on you. This is sort of like advertising, there is no bad press right now.

Just remain calm, focus on your message, and let rip at it. It will drive her crazy, but all of it will be focussed on you.

Your job is to get her out of withdrawal, which is sort of like ripping a roof off to let the heat out. Not fun to do, but important to do. YOu have started with your exposure, you have done well.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: black_raven Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:19 AM
You sound better BHFF.

Did you actually speak to OMW 1-on-1 or did she just overhear you talking to her H? dontknow
Posted By: momtobug Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
The home of his marriage is engulfed in fire. And he sits at the door knocking, even though he knows his family is inside. He actually believes that he can put out the fire by holding his hands over his eyes and wishing it was gone. He reminds me of a child that crawls under his bed to hide from the fire. Very sad.


I love this. I feel that by not exposing, this is EXACTLY what I'm doing. "E" day coming soon!
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:35 AM
She overheard, original plan was to make him expose to her, give them a chance to save their marriage and family. But if you want to make God laugh tell him your plans. Anyway I need to edit one of my posts. Should have said

PRAY FOR US
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 03:49 AM
I am sure you would have to hold me back. Patience was never my strong suit. It has burned me more then once.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:26 PM
Ouchthathurt,

Kudos to you friend. You have given this BH the BEST advice he has received. I know its not popular here, but in BH/WW situations ... strong, definitive ACTION works better than Plan A.

Every time the subject of ultimatums come up here, it invariably AND ON PURPOSE, gets taken out of context to support the MB infomercial. They can rail about ultimatums all they want, but if they are delivered coldly and calmly and backed up by strong boundaries ... you will know immediately if you have a WW worth the effort, and then can take the appropriate actions based on their responses.

However, we also must recognize that there are many times more BH's like BHHF than there are those that think like us. Therefore, given the herd mentality, its not surprising that they would flock towards those with a similar personalities.

Aphelion recommends that MB should implement some form of triage to determine just what we're dealing with ... type of A, length of A, stability of the M pre-A, strength/weakness of the BH, etc., and I personally think that is a GREAT idea, but again, it is "outside of the box" thinking and thereby dismissed out of hand.

Again, GOOD JOB even if it is ignored by this BH.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:38 PM
MyRev, I think you should go start your own website since you are so much smarter than Dr Harley. Why waste your time on a website whose program is so inferior to yours? I can't imagine why you wouldn't take your expertise and spread that around. Go start your own website and do it on your dime! With your great track record of exactly ONE recovered marriage, you should be able to change the world! smile
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:44 PM
Update-
She came home with a lot of anger. I saw the text ending it. She does not know how how I found out. She said she was staying for the kids. That gives me a chance at Plan A?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:49 PM
I believe compassion is directly related to contrition. If there is true sorrow. If the realization of blowing everything in your life, hits you right in the face, then you can start the work. You can give them grace and love and boundaries. But when you have a dominant WW and a passive BH, it is a recipe for long slow torture, with the spouse eating cake, and getting independent enough leave. My impression of BHFF is that he has basically given in when it comes to conflict. So plan A will be nothing different then what he has done all his marriage. The one redeeming point, was confronting them both, and her OMs wife finding out. That took courage.

If love is the only motivation to try to change someone, it is only one side of the coin. What everyone seems to neglect here is the right or justice side of the coin. Both are needed. As I have said a healthy measure of righteous anger is, I think necessary and good. I am not talking going postal. I am talking about glaring and sometimes unkind truth.
For instance. Every one jumped on me (including BHFF) for the remark I made. When the fact is, I only said it. She actually did it. Why do some people insist that only cool calm and collected is the only expression that should be made.
I believe there is a time for that. But I believe in the heat of discovery, denial, and threats, a strong response of outrage and a willingness to call the cheating spouse on her bluffs, even if she thinks or actually does mean at the time. She or he will leave (or better yet, get kicked out). They will feel isolated and rejected from their family, and rightly so. I believe that when people have the chance to visualize what their future will be like alone, and without the love of their partner and distancing from their children (and you can't say that does not happen), they may comeback with a new perspective and some contrition. Is this every marriage? No. But it is some marriages. If they had a strong marriage b4 the cheating with good compatibility, then I think this is an option. If they don't have a good marriage, Then the alternative plan A, may be the best course. What I am saying like all marriages, responses have to catered to the individuals involved. And it ain't always love and kisses.
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:56 PM
OTH,

That was VERY well said ... we may have used different words to convey our perspective, but I'm confident we see things through a common lens.

FWIW, I really like the term "righteous indignation" ... I just can't imagine a BH being afraid of their WW's anger, when it is the WW's ACTIONS that originally caused the conflict, but unfortunately that does seem to be a common response.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 01:57 PM
damn Mel, what are you the? the discussion forum police. If the Harley's intended this to be all about wrote answers, they would not call it the "discussion forum" and they wouldn't have a disclaimer underneath. I think you have a lot to offer in the way of advice, and I have said it on this board. Why are the opinions of others so anathema to you?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
damn Mel, what are you the? the discussion forum police. If the Harley's intended this to be all about wrote answers, they would not call it the "discussion forum" and they wouldn't have a disclaimer underneath. I think you have a lot to offer in the way of advice, and I have said it on this board. Why are the opinions of others so anathema to you?

Is there something wrong with my opinion, ouch? I am of the opinion that if MyRev is so much smarter than Dr Harley that he should just start his own website instead of disrupting threads with his endless cheap shots at MB.........on Dr. Harleys own dime. Wouldn't you agree?
Posted By: MyRevelation Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:03 PM
OTH,

So as not to threadjack BHFF's thead further, if you would send me an email to the address in my signature, I think I can fill in the blanks for you offline.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Update-
She came home with a lot of anger. I saw the text ending it. She does not know how how I found out. She said she was staying for the kids. That gives me a chance at Plan A?

BHFF, have you been in Plan A all this time? What Plan A means is that you show her a WILLINGNESS to meet her needs if she ends her affair. It means avoiding lovebusters and causing as much conflict as possible in the affair.

Does she work with the OM? Can you bring me up to speed?

Good job confronting the OM! As BobPure said after he exposed the affair, I changed from a SERF to a KNIGHT. You should be proud of what you did! Good job! smile
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:11 PM
Absolutely not mel, but neither is there anything wrong with anyone else's opinion. If the Harley's were worried about their dime they would have a mod here to wipe out any dissenting views. I believe that this forum actually promotes the Harley's. It shows that they are confident enough in their approach that it stands on its own. I have no problem with their methods, and they have obviously had great success with it. But the fact remains. That people are different and respond in different ways. Sorry for the thread hi jack.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:14 PM
BHFF, Could you give us the back story of your marriage and history? How was your marriage?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
Absolutely not mel, but neither is there anything wrong with anyone else's opinion.

Ouch, then you should have no problem with my question asking why MyRev doesn't go start his own website since his own program is superior to MB. Why waste time here making endless disparaging remarks about MB? What is the point? I don't think he is the only one entitled to an opinion, is he? Doesn't that work both ways?

Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Update-
She came home with a lot of anger. I saw the text ending it. She does not know how how I found out. She said she was staying for the kids. That gives me a chance at Plan A?
Yes, you continue the the carrot part of Plan A, and you enforce the stick part of Plan A. Reread the stick part, this is the one that you may struggle with.

When dealing with your WW anger, be careful not to get into a pissing contest. She needs to see you in control of your M. If you lose control, it will throw you off of your game.

It's not lovebusting to tell her how painful her A is to the family, that it will not be tolerated, etc.

Hold strong to your goal and realize when she starts to blame or accuse, you need to ignore it, change the subject or walk away.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 06:56 PM
Update-Contacted by OMW. Directed her here. Told her I would pray for her and her family. Told her her marriage could be saved. I feel like a CAD. I know, I know, their problems are not mine, I didnt have the affair, she would have eventually found out etc.. but I devoted my life to saving people and this is a hard thing to deal with. I did not contact her directly but she was in the room when I called him.

Marriage background-
Married at 26 and 25, ups and downs just like everyone else. She told me one time early on that she wasn't happy thought she might want a divorce. Worked through that, but alot of what I am hearing now is the same as then. Had 2 beautiful boys, one miscarriage. She quit to stay home with them after the 2nd boy. Built (myself) a house for us in 2006-2007. Spent alot of time with that. Work picked up for me, promotions, new duties, spent a lot of time lost in my mind working those things out. Closed her off, she responded by closing herself off and here we are. She says she feels like she has a roommate not a husband. Also that I put her on a pedastal and do not confront her enough (I think that has been batted around enough).

We had our appointment with our NEW marriage counselor today. She seems more with it than the last, (she could even remember our names). I dont know that I agree with everything but at least we talked about both of our issues not just mine. I didnt know how that would go, WW woke up angry, silent treatment for the morning. But it got better in counseling. Again we will see. So for now PLAN A is in effect, a little carrot and a little stick, please again Pray for my family.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
I feel like a CAD. I know, I know, their problems are not mine, I didnt have the affair, she would have eventually found out etc.. but I devoted my life to saving people and this is a hard thing to deal with.

You feel like a "CAD?" Do you think that is very rational, BHFF? You did this woman a great favor by warning her that she was being harmed behind her back. You did not harm this woman, your wife and the OM have harmed her. You simply alerted her so she could protect herself. YOU GAVE HER A CHANCE TO SAVE HER MARRIAGE. You brought in the fire hose!

This is the same as warning your neighbor that his bookkeeper is stealing money from him. You are not the one causing the harm.

Did you speak to the OMW? I am confused about that part..

Is this counselor qualified and competent? Most are not when it comes to infidelity issues and marital issues so I wonder how you screened this counselor?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 07:11 PM
p.s. Vittoria gave you excellent advice! Don't get dragged into any fights and don't react to her anger. If she is raging at you, simply tell her: "I am sorry you are so upset. Would you like a potato chip?" smile
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 07:14 PM
It is sad to hear how people let things and work in the way of maintaining the most important relationship in their life. People settle for so little in their marriages.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 07:35 PM
Funny, now that I know the back story, I would have to agree with Mel and the Harleys. This is definitely a plan A scenario. Why? Because for all intense purposes, they didn't have a marriage. BHFF basically has to court her like b4 they were married.

The fact is that men are the initiators of affection and love. And women are the initiators of communication (generally). Both partners have to be receptive to their roles in this. Men have to know when to respond to their wives need for communication (which brings them together emotionally), and be willing to talk, listen and engage their wives. Wives need to respond to the husbands need for physical love, as this is how they judge the condition of their marriages.

If I were BHFF, I would start writing her letters......Everyday. I would focus on what he likes and loves about her. The first few may be thrown in the trash. But I think eventually, she would start to look forward to them. I wouldn't even mention infidelity in the letters. They should be a refuge to deal with the hard work of counseling.

I would tell her the same thing. Write him letters. Not about infidelity but of his qualities. No bitching or complaining. At first it may only be a sentence or two. But eventually the connection would increase.

But alas, most couples are to lazy and self centered to do this.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 10:14 PM
Actually we both spoke to her, she called when we were together. And it is not that I was not working at our marriage, I just put my efforts in the wrong place, being provider, dad, etc and lost focus on the marriage.

Screen the counselor-unfortunately there are 6 in our area and this is number 2, so screening is difficult. I wanted to be in some counseling because she does talk there and I didn't want to much time going by.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/04/09 11:34 PM
Bhff, this is what I wrote on peppers thread regarding some marriages. Read the bold, italics and underlined. This was on ouch-that-hurt thread. You are my proven point.

pepper wrote in response to one of my posts, where I said some people settle.

Her question Are you including yourself into this sad group, or just others? confused

This was my response


I guess, I have to put a disclaimer like

**The author of this post recognizes his own flaws and when writing is often including himself in with others who are also married. The opinions put forth are those of the originator and do not represent the opinions of any other, and should not be attributed to anyone but him.**

We have been to counseling several times over our marriage. Our first time was about 3 years after we were married. And as a matter of fact we are in counseling right now (empty next, midlife crisis, reconnecting). We both recognize when one or both need a tune up. And we go when we want to resolve issues. Because we want more for our marriage.



Originally Posted By: Pepperband

And when you say "people settle" what precicely do you mean?Do you mean settle for what their spouse brings to the marriage, or do you mean people settle for what they themselves bring to the marriage? Or do you mean something completely different?


As marriages have two people in them, it would be both settling. Most often it is the men who don't live up to their end. They believe if they work and put food on the table, they've contributed their part. I am speaking about those who settle for a "room mate" situation when they want so much more. And yes either partner can torpedo the others desire for a better marriage.

Originally Posted By: Pepperband
Having myself been married since 1981 , I know a thing or two about long term marriage difficulties.


We had our 29th anniversary last Sunday.


Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 02:23 PM
Should we move this to Plan A/Plan B?

Update-Plan A is hard when everything is so fresh. I have lots of good moments, but this AM when she was getting ready for work, the cuts were reopened in my mind. What did she do? Nothing just knowing she was going there hurt. Sometimes I feel like there is no remorse, no empathy for how I am feeling. Yesterday after OMW called (WW answered) WW and OMW talked, (this was also after counseling) she seemed better more willing to talk, more willing to try to open up. She went shopping with a friend after that, (I can account for her whereabouts) she came home in a horrible mood. But the moods are not fighting, I would prefer that, they are they silent treatment. So-Plan A is hard when you are on the roller coaster.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 02:43 PM
Have you considered my suggestion on writing each other? If you start, she may follow. She is in a fog right now. She sees her marriage like a prison sentence. You need to connect with her. You have to eclipse the OM in her mind. And she needs to get a different job. Think about the writing.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 03:37 PM
BHFF,
Does this mean she is still working with OM?

If this is true, this is the first of a thousand cuts you will suffer and eventually die from.

There has to be a radical change in your WW's behavior and possible her job.

NC must be enforcible and real. If it requires your WW to quit her job, so be it. There is no " in between" here. You do understand that, right?

Please tell me that your WW is not still working with OM!!

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 03:47 PM
They work together?? dontknow
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
She knows the conditons. She asked me to not confront him or his spouse. On the condition that all contact (except for work and that will have to be tolerated for a short while
BHFF was told that WW needs to quit job.
Has this happened ??


Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Should we move this to Plan A/Plan B?
You are in Plan A, no where close to Plan B yet. You can't just carry out the carrot of Plan A, and some parts of the stick. You have to do all that the stick part requires. If you commit to this you may not need Plan B.
Plan B is where your WW moves out and there is NC between you and her. There is more to it but concentrate on Plan A right now. BTW ... this all really confused me too at first.

Quote
Sometimes I feel like there is no remorse, no empathy for how I am feeling.
There won't be, as long as she is in contact with OM. You can't go thru withdrawl if the source hasn't been removed. Exposure is the best tool to blasting the A apart. NC between them must follow. No exceptions.

And yes Plan A is hard.
Read the carrot and the stick again. Print if off, keep it in your pocket and read it as much as possible. Remember it is a secret from your WW.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:23 PM
I think he was asking if this should be moved to the Plan A/B forum. If that is the question, I would say NO. That forum is very slow and you can get more help over here.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:34 PM
No, she has not quit her job. But evidently things are not roses their today. I think OMW finding out has put a big crimp in things.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I think he was asking if this should be moved to the Plan A/B forum. If that is the question, I would say NO. That forum is very slow and you can get more help over here.
ooooooh kay, that makes more sense, they really did confuse me at first. confused

BHFF .... that was just me rambling then sigh
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
No, she has not quit her job. But evidently things are not roses their today. I think OMW finding out has put a big crimp in things.
A crimp is not enough. It will never be enough BHFF.
Contact with OM is M suicide.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
No, she has not quit her job. But evidently things are not roses their today. I think OMW finding out has put a big crimp in things.

You are screwed. Telling the OMW was a FIRST STEP, but this train is not moving until she leaves that job.

Have you exposed at work?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/05/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
No, she has not quit her job. But evidently things are not roses their today. I think OMW finding out has put a big crimp in things.

Can I ask why you think the OMW finding out would put a crimp in the affair when YOU finding out did not? Are you hoping that she won't be a conflict avoider too? Are you expecting HER to do the heavy lifting you wouldn't do?
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/07/09 11:16 PM
How's it going BHFF? Has your wife or the OM quit yet? I know that the first week is the worst. Hope you are hanging in there. It does get better.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/08/09 02:20 PM
How have you been? How about updating us.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/09/09 03:47 PM
Sorry about my absence-
Update-I think my last post was Sunday. Trying to avoid LoveBusters and doing all right there. WW is still way mad. I asked her about it Sunday night and she says she feels trapped. She is also mad about the confrontation. She says I was trying to ruin his life. Funny huh? However Monday night she used the laptop and got on facebook and was chatting (not to him) and that brought back all of my hurt and I got pretty mad. She knew I was mad and reached out to me. That was the first time in a while. I was still mad wed morning she asked why and I had a chance to tell her why and that started an ugly day. But things cooled a little by Wed evening, no more LoveBusters, had a pleasant visit with some of my family and things were better by that night.

I still struggle with the fact that I get very little empathy in this. I think that is still part of the fog, and she is figuring out how to proceed. She is focusing on what she thinks she lost, not what she could lose. She hasn't put a lot of effort into the counselors suggestions, but I hope for change.

Interesting thing-I find anger to be a better emotion have than the others. It is more focusing, easier to keep moving with anger than all of the others. May not work for some but for me it is a better motivator, and makes for a clearer head than loss and sorrow.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/09/09 07:40 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Sorry about my absence-
Update-I think my last post was Sunday. Trying to avoid LoveBusters and doing all right there. WW is still way mad. I asked her about it Sunday night and she says she feels trapped. She is also mad about the confrontation. She says I was trying to ruin his life. Funny huh? However Monday night she used the laptop and got on facebook and was chatting (not to him) and that brought back all of my hurt and I got pretty mad. She knew I was mad and reached out to me. That was the first time in a while. I was still mad wed morning she asked why and I had a chance to tell her why and that started an ugly day. But things cooled a little by Wed evening, no more LoveBusters, had a pleasant visit with some of my family and things were better by that night.

I still struggle with the fact that I get very little empathy in this. I think that is still part of the fog, and she is figuring out how to proceed. She is focusing on what she thinks she lost, not what she could lose. She hasn't put a lot of effort into the counselors suggestions, but I hope for change.

Interesting thing-I find anger to be a better emotion have than the others. It is more focusing, easier to keep moving with anger than all of the others. May not work for some but for me it is a better motivator, and makes for a clearer head than loss and sorrow.

Your WS response is pretty typical. When they lose their secret life, they miss it and feel trapped at first. That is okay. She can be mad. She should be. At first they all hate exposure and defend OP. That does fade as they work through withdrawal. Living a transparent life forces them to just live the one life that they were avoiding to some extent. This is all part of withdrawal and the early phases after discovery. The most important thing right now is to maintain N/C to make sure that the affairs stays over. Don't expect much from wife right now. You have the rest of your life to work on the marriage. Save it first. She is not in a place to meet your needs until the affair ends and she goes through withdrawal.

Anger is normal but be careful with it. Don't let it turn into a lovebuster. It will take time until she lets you meet her needs. She may not be interested in meeting yours for several months. This takes time and will be very frustrating to you. Your lovebank will feel very low at times. Be prepared for the long haul. This is a marathon. You may feel like you are the only one trying for a long time. It is not fair. It is just the way that it seems to be in the early months. If the affair is really over, things will get easier - it isn't fast though.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/10/09 06:08 PM
So-how quickly things happen. OMW filed for divorce. Ex-parte against him, kicks him out of house, bans contact with his kids. Story I am getting is he was in an abusive relationship with her. Anyway. OM calls WW says stay away, move shifts, whatever so WW can work on our marriage to keep it from being like his. Irony? WW is mad, less at me now more at herself. She still is deep in fog, but we have talked long and hard about this and at first she wanted to move out, but I have delayed that, we are going to work harder on this when she is ready. So for me-More Plan A, no lovebusters try to be the husband and friend I should have been. BTW our current counselor is great, I hope I can get WW wife back in when some of this emotion clears.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 01:21 PM
Plan A in full effect, carrot and stick.
The hard part-I am supporting her through the loss of her OM! For anyone who hasn't been here it does help to think of this as an addiction. Something that is so controlling and insidious that it almost cant be managed.

My Taker is pretty pissed that I am giving all of the love but not getting any love in return, but as my counselor said-you cant make anybody do anything. They will only do what they want. Giving love is all a spouse can do in any situation and teach the other spouse how they want to receive love. Anyway-

OM is screwed. OMW had set him up for this long ago. He had no idea where the money was, where the bills where. She has cleaned him out. I feel bad for him. (pathetic, huh?) She has isolated him from his kids with the ex-parte. I know he is not violent or a threat, but OMW is a [censored]. She has a right to be mad, but no right to isolate him from his children. If all people were adults the world would be an easier place to live.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 02:15 PM
I do think there is a difference between LBs and being honest. If your wife gives you attitude or whines about how OM is being treated. I don't think there is a problem with pointing out the fact that she was one of MANY women he had done this to. And that she is just as culpable of what has happened to his family. And yours.

You spoiled your wife to some extent by always giving in to her wishes. This put you in the submissive role, which made her lose all respect for you. If I can ask a question. What exactly are your plans to gain that respect back? Without it, love cannot survive. She has treated you with contempt and still does. Do you think you can plan A with a woman who doesn't respect you?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 03:32 PM
I think being honest about my emotions and not cowering in fear of making her mad is the number one thing. Being strong and not backing off of my opinion (and still trying to see her side, thats communication) and being a good man (see earlier definintion). Thats who I am. By being who I am, honestly, that gives her the option of deciding if she wants to continue. Isnt that what plan A is? Get her out of the fog, and let her think clearly about the situation and let her make a clear decision?
Posted By: NervousNewbie Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
OM is screwed. OMW had set him up for this long ago. He had no idea where the money was, where the bills where. She has cleaned him out. I feel bad for him. (pathetic, huh?) She has isolated him from his kids with the ex-parte. I know he is not violent or a threat, but OMW is a [censored]. She has a right to be mad, but no right to isolate him from his children. If all people were adults the world would be an easier place to live.


And you know he's not violent or a threat ... how? Because WW told you so?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
I think being honest about my emotions and not cowering in fear of making her mad is the number one thing. Being strong and not backing off of my opinion (and still trying to see her side, thats communication) and being a good man (see earlier definintion). Thats who I am. By being who I am, honestly, that gives her the option of deciding if she wants to continue. Isnt that what plan A is? Get her out of the fog, and let her think clearly about the situation and let her make a clear decision?

People who are submissive to their spouses have opinions. Their spouses just don't respect them. She will make a clear decision. She will stay because it suits her. That doesn't mean it will lead to respect. The problem is BHFF, you do not require her to respect you. Do you? There are no consequences to her actions. She knows that you will forgive her. That my friend, is cheap grace. She will not value your forgiveness, because it required nothing of her to get it.

Its like a child who is given everything without working for it. They do not value it because it cost them nothing. That is what the situation is with you and your wife.
Posted By: UVA Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 04:15 PM
The biggest problem I see here is YOU! Your M has no chance as long as your WW works with OM and you refuse to grow a pair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
Isnt that what plan A is? Get her out of the fog, and let her think clearly about the situation and let her make a clear decision?

How can she get out of the fog if she continues to work with the OM every day? Can a falling down drunk sober up and "think clearly" if they go to the bar every day and drink? BHFF, you are more foggy than your wife, I am afraid. You have no plan here; HOPE is not a plan. It is an EXCUSE to avoid taking action.

t/j hey UVA! LTNS! Great to see you around, friend. smile
Posted By: UVA Re: Confront or not confront - 04/11/09 05:04 PM
Tj: Mel, I see that you are still giving out great advice. Nice to hear from you.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 12:40 PM
First. left out of other posts-I do know other man, have known him longer than her, not naive I doubt this his is first affair.

Second-work exposure has happened

Ouchthathurt- Who said I was being submissive? If I have learned anything from you it is to let my "balls" down. I have never told her what they did was right, she has said it was wrong I agreed and confirmed it. The pain being caused by the A is their fault and I have said that in no uncertain terms. Our conversation Fri Morn was about separation and what was going to happen. Also effects to kids on both sides as this is going on. It was a long open and honest conversation. We had a good night last night sitting and talking after the OB (ornery boys) went to bed. Plan A is working. The stick is in effect as well as the carrot.

She is looking for other employment, BTW.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 01:30 PM
Wow, sounds like you mean it. Glad to hear that you have set clear boundaries. Are you going to make her work to get you back? Have you finished being afraid of losing her, and are more committed to doing what is right for your own self respect? If so, that is great. Are you seeing any contrition or sorrow yet, other then sorrow that she got caught or that she can't keep working there? This sounds positive.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 03:16 PM
As I read Plan A-
The carrot is on my part now, until she gets over the "addiction". Ensuring that this marriage is someplace she wants to be.
The stick is to ensure the affair is over, no contact, and for her to realize what she loses by chasing the affair, something that is not real.

As far as sorrow and contrition, yes. Fri Morn and Sat morn were filled with sorrow over the hurt caused to everyone, including me.

After a while of discussing though I did let the that discussion die for now, I dont think continually beating her up for days is going to help her or me.

Our talk last night was just married people's wandering conversation, work, kids, friends, life. You know the conversation that doesnt really go anywhere just rambles from topic to topic and feels good to be close and intimate with your spouse. She had a huge smile on her face when we went to bed and told me she loved me. When I asked her about her smile she just said "oh I dont know".

So yes, clear boundaries have been set, with the consequences of crossing those boundaries. At the same time we are rebuilding our friendship and intimacy.

The hurt and anger are still there. But that is something we both have to work through. I am realizing the length of this process, and admire anyone who has stuck through it and made a better marriage.

Happy Easter to All.
To quote my grandfather:
Only one person was ever perfect and he died for us a long time ago. All the rest of us can do is be a poor imitation.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 03:48 PM
Very positive. Especially the smile. Have you been able to be intimate yet? Does she seem clingy? These would be good signs. Also if you could get the OMW e-mail you with his other affairs. This could help also. I am not saying to rub your wife's face in it, but it would be good for her to know that she was just another piece to him. This could increase her thankfulness for you (which is what you really want to see, thankfulness).

What did you mean by second workplace exposure?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 05:19 PM
Just numeric points. I dont know that OM has had other affairs, just suspicions. Not clingy, and not intimate yet. The emotion of Fri and Sat has both of us drained.

Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 10:58 PM
Help! OM contacted WW today. Told her that she needed to stay in marriage to avoid the trouble he is in. Told her to give me time to show her what kind of husband I could be. The same things I told her Friday. Now WW thinks him and I are conspiring against her. What the hell is going on? Why would I contact him? She is so angry, convinced that I contacted him. I agreed not to contact him as long as no contact between them. I have not. Why would I? Why would I talk to him?

What to do?

Help
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Confront or not confront - 04/12/09 11:55 PM
What a weasel! He's full of BS (and not the hurting kind). He just wanted to get his fix of your WW. How did he contact her? Can you plug that hole? Ignore your WW's anger, she's reaching for something to be angry about that will take the focus off of her.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 12:07 AM
You I dont think he is. I know that he is devastated by his loss and is actually pushing WW away. She is probably angry because of that. I hope.
Posted By: catperson Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 02:08 AM
Quote
The same things I told her Friday. Now WW thinks him and I are conspiring against her.
You can actually use that to your advantage.

I often tell people here who are especially headstrong about not wanting to do THEIR work, 'If 99 people in a room of 100 say one thing, and the 100th says something else, who do you think sees it correctly?'

If you AND OM see things the same way, (you can tell her), you can bet you're probably right.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 01:48 PM
I think that is what really peeves her. That where she went to get needs met is now telling her the same thing that I am. Sorry about yesterday's post, Saturday was so good, I lost my mind when it went south. I dont know that it went south as bad as my mind played it to be. She is really angry, but she hasn't left.

Now since this is turning to Plan A I have a question for the experienced members-

Are WS always such a roller coaster ride? I used to be a pretty rock solid person, slow to anger (a skill I learned), willing to listen and be patient. This emotional roller coaster ride is tough. It is hard to exit the ride and just watch. Even if I am off the ride I still suffer through some of the ups and downs with her. Just curious as to other people's experience's with their WS's.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 05:10 PM
BHFF,

I hadn't read your story until today. You are doing well, all things considered. Certainly much better than whne you began posting here!

You have exposed at work, and that's a good thing.
What is WW's attitude toward quitting work and finding another job?

The roller coaster is normal, for sure. It will calm down a lot when there is NO CONTACT (including "just friends" at "just work" type of contact).

What actions did you and WW take to ensure OM cannot contact her again in the manner he did recently? How did you plug that hole?
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 05:50 PM
They work together, plugging that hole is impossible until she find other employment.

She still does not see this marriage working out, or I should say is scared it wont work and then will not have a job. Financial Security is on of my wife's biggest emotional needs. She is not opposed to other work, but we have to find some.

I think I am better, still every once and a when the fear of losing my family catches me, like yesterday, I go into freak out mode.

Counseling helps, but mostly pulling myself up with the help of everyone here has been the biggest change for the good.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 06:23 PM
Is she actively pursuing other employment?

At their job, are your WW and OM in a position where one reports to the other?
Posted By: WhatNext4Me Re: Confront or not confront - 04/13/09 08:35 PM
BHFF,
I just read your entire post and I am praying for you. We sound like we have similar WW's. I wish I would have done what you did about 12 months ago. I am still struggling with a M that is all but shattered. I am hanging on by a thread and have just recently and only God knows why been trying to recover my M. I hope things are not too late for me. You seem to be getting some great advice and following through. I am in no position to give you advice other than do not wait, don't procrastinte, don't hesitate, don't let fear hold you back from taking the advice on this site. I denied an EA/PA for a long time and watched it destroy my M and failed to take swift and strong action as the others have been advising. I am now in a serious uphill battle. I have moved out, WW is running wild, no regard for our M, lost my respect, but yet surprisingly enough, I feel compelled to continue to try and fight for my M.

Learn from my mistake and take the advice of the wise ones on this site.

I wish you the best of luck and I pray for you.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 02:04 AM
So-The roller coaster continues and hopped on and rode again. We got into a big fight last night, she started talking about separating, and more ugliness came out. Lovebusters for me, tried to have conversation and she started yelling, I asked her not to, she yelled louder, she thinks I laughed, so on and so on. Anyway, after a night of no sleep and pacing the floors I was done. Done trying to carry the emotional load, done being the only one who wanted to work this out. I have heard it a hundred times, "I dont know" "It cant work" "It wont work" So at 4 AM I was done. Ready to stop carrying the load, ready to throw in the towel. Reason- I know They say one person can save the marriage, but if the other is convinced there is no way, I dont know. So I told her this was it, I am doing the figures on the house and budgets and child support and a change- Now she is scared, now she wants to go back into counseling, she is calling me at work checking on me. Up and down and round and round when does the ride stop?
Posted By: exagilent1 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 02:22 AM
You just did a 180.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 03:19 AM
I have said it time and again. She created an emotional vacuum to maintain control of you. But she pushed it to far. You rebel and created an emotional vacuum on her. Now she wants to go back to counseling. You have now taken power back in your marriage. This is what I said about getting up in her grill. Funny how you standing up to her and putting your foot down has caused her to respect you. And to fear life without you. I think she does still love you. But she must win you back. You're not a jerk (not by what you posted) But you are starting to realize that you weren't a bad husband either. You are a fireman who had to stay at work a couple of days at a time and she felt she deserved to have another man too. Funny how lovebusters and all happened, but in the end she now wants to go back into counseling. This is the first time I actually feel positive that you may work this out. Marriage can live on respect alone. But love cannot live without respect. Your wife is worried about her financial security. To me that is her keeping one foot out of the marriage. Do you love her? Yes. Will you dump her if loses her job. No. But she wants the ability to be able to walk away if she feels like it. Sorry. Choose. Marriage or job. There is nothing wrong with you requiring a sacrifice on her side. After all you had to sacrifice your marriage because she wanted sex and another man.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 11:55 AM
No I dont think I was a bad husband either. Maybe not a great husband, but not a bad one. But Hopefully this is a positive sign. Thanks Ouch.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 12:19 PM
What you have to watch for is him walking around work like some kind of martyr to love and her thinking "Oh, look at him, he is so noble in telling me to work on my marriage". This could be just as dangerous. Thats why she needs to be gone from that job.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
So-The roller coaster continues and hopped on and rode again. We got into a big fight last night, she started talking about separating, and more ugliness came out. Lovebusters for me, tried to have conversation and she started yelling, I asked her not to, she yelled louder, she thinks I laughed, so on and so on. Anyway, after a night of no sleep and pacing the floors I was done. Done trying to carry the emotional load, done being the only one who wanted to work this out. I have heard it a hundred times, "I dont know" "It cant work" "It wont work"
BHFF,

You are at the beginning of this whole process. You need to plug that hole of contact at work.

WW needs to quit that job. Period. This will be the nail in the coffin, if this doesn't happen, you will remain in this limbo .... going nowhere.

All these things that WW are saying, this is fog babble. They all say it, we've all heard it.
This is the stuff that you ignore, you change the subject, start to sing a song, whatever .....

Challenging her leads to a ping pong game and goes nowhere, leads to LBing, anger and frustration as you have seen.

Yes, you do have to carry the load .... for now.

WW needs to see YOU in control of the M.

You are still fighting this A, nip this in the butt!

Reread the carrot and the stick of Plan A.

But, you are stuck, until she quits that job, where she can get her fix.
Posted By: JoJo422 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 12:31 PM
Quote
WW needs to quit that job. Period. This will be the nail in the coffin, if this doesn't happen, you will remain in this limbo .... going nowhere.

Vittoria,
I agree totally with this. My H and the SOW worked together also. Once they no longer worked together (right after Dday2) is when my H began to come out of the "Just Friends" fog and really began to see exactly what his relationship with the SOW was. We argued and fought, and I cried for 4 months (the time that they continued to work with her) before he began to see, which was AFTER they stopped working together ever day ..... rant2

NO CONTACT, even at work, FOR LIFE!!
BHFF ~ You WILL NOT be able to get through this and start to recover as long as your WW is still working with and see the OM every day. There's just not way....
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 12:45 PM
BHFF,

Listen to JoJo, she has been in your shoes, many others can testify to her nightmare.

The $$$ lost with WW quitting will not cost you nearly as much as what a D will.

You've come this far, you need to finish the plan.
You have to have faith in this board and other's experiences.

Read some other threads of BH who hesitated with full NC and see how their sitch went, and some threads of those who acted the full fight of the A out.

I can't think of specific ones, maybe someone else can suggest a couple.

I can't remember, did you expose to WW workplace??


Posted By: JoJo422 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 01:17 PM
BHFF,
Your wife needs to find another job NOW

I feel for you. I remember that terrible pain that I experience EVERY DAY when H went to work and the SOW was still working there. Knowing that they would be seeing each other, knowing that I had NO WAY OF KNOWING what was going on between them during work hours.

My FWH did look for another job between DDay1 and Dday2 just not very hard. HE kept saying that the SOW should leave the company since he'd been there longer. I told him that I understood that but that as long as he worked with her then we were doomed, and I meant it. Had it gone on much longer, we would be in Plan D right now. I (we) got lucky though, 2 weeks after Dday2 she quit.

I agree with MelodyLane and others that say allowing your WS to continue to work with their affair partner is like sending a drunk to a bar everyday and expecting them not to drink.
JoJo
Posted By: dh104 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 01:32 PM
Read this excellent post by Chrisner about how using MB principles affected his xW's affair...
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243582#Post2243582

The most pertinent part...
Quote
But……. she drug her feet looking for a new job to leave the company they worked at and in the end I could not force that. They worked in different facilities about 60 miles apart so it was a ticking bomb. We had NC and painful withdrawal for 21 days before there was a meeting they both were at in her facility. When she got home, 21 days of withdrawal was wiped clean and she was deep in the fog. She was gone a week later.

It was all undone by a single contact after NC began.

Posted By: JoJo422 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/15/09 01:53 PM
dh104,
That is an excellent example, and there are hundreds of more just like this one, of what happens when the AP's continue to work together even if they are not in the same building.

There are 2 things that you MUST do if you want your M to even have a chance of surviving.....

EXPOSE......EXPOSE.....EXPOSE
AND
NO CONTACT.....NO CONTACT....NO CONTACT
and this means NO CONTACT FOR LIFE

JoJo
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/16/09 02:31 PM
I agree with all of you. But this is one of the most delicate issues (money, financial security) we have dealt with in our marriage. Like I said, we are working to it as quickly as we can.

Reference an above post- Is a "180" a MB term? I hadn't heard that one yet.

Also-
Things continue to seem to improve. We both have things to work out, but we have a date tomorrow, and next week that we are looking forward to. She is almost excited about the counseling session tomorrow (this one is just for her). So fingers crossed, hands folded (prayer), rabbits foot in the pocket, and more hard work things look promising.

Now it seems I have finally given some thought to my feelings and emotions and now have to deal with them. She is much more willing to talk about and even approach me to see how I am doing. That is a huge change from the last month, she seemed more selfish and self-centered before the "180". For anyone readig these posts- Strength can be found many places but this site and these posters have done as much to encourage my strength as anything. I do believe that strength has to come from within but it helps when you have good people like those here encouraging you to look in an find it. Thanks to all, I will keep everyone updated.
Posted By: stillstanding2 Re: Confront or not confront - 04/16/09 02:52 PM
Is a transfer possible? Is her resume in order? Has she put in applications elsewhere? What is she doing to find a new job? Has exposure been done at the workplace?
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/16/09 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by dh104
Read this excellent post by Chrisner about how using MB principles affected his xW's affair...
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2243582#Post2243582

The most pertinent part...
Quote
But……. she drug her feet looking for a new job to leave the company they worked at and in the end I could not force that. They worked in different facilities about 60 miles apart so it was a ticking bomb. We had NC and painful withdrawal for 21 days before there was a meeting they both were at in her facility. When she got home, 21 days of withdrawal was wiped clean and she was deep in the fog. She was gone a week later.

It was all undone by a single contact after NC began.
Thankyou dh104 for finding this.

This would scare the H3ll out of me if my WS got even a glimpse of AP.
It just simply would not be worth it.

BHFF, continue to keep your eyes open, snoop, keep your boundaries intact ... no relaxing, remain cautious.
This is not over yet ... it's too soon, and almost is sounding too easy.

You sound more grounded, this is good, it's too bad though that you are unable to trust the advice about NC.

It's spring time, could your WW not do spring cleaning for $$$ until something else comes up?

NC is only as delicate a situation as you make it. smile

Take care.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/19/09 06:11 PM
We continue to trudge on, she seems to be on the up and up. No amount of snooping has found any contact.

When does it become easier to trust again? I want to, I can find no evidence of cheating, but still have trouble. She has changed greatly since the "180" but still doesn't meet some of my emotional needs. I dont even know if it is time to discuss them. But I am trying very hard to be good, no lovebusters, just trying to get through the days.

BTW another job is coming!
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/23/09 02:28 AM
Update-
Working hard to spend more time together. Still in counseling. This counselor is much better than the first. (At least she can remember our names) We talked some more about the A. Details later
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/23/09 05:05 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
BTW another job is coming!
This is a step, but it can't happen soon enough.

How many times has WW gone to work since you believe NC started? WW cannot begin to recover until NC is totally in place.

You still can't trust her, without verifying everything she says. This will go on for a very long time.

You did get the books SAA, and HNHN's right? They will guide you through this.

You two are discussing the A, do you feel like she is telling you everything? Do things make sense to you?

What is being discussed in MC?

Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/25/09 08:46 PM
Sorry for my absence, when I was posting WS was coming in. She doesn't know I post here and dont know for sure what her reaction would be, me discussing our problems with the World Wide Web.
Anyway-
Yes there is work contact, I know. There is no contact that I know of outside of that. I do have HNHN and have read it.

Marriage counseling is interesting. I have had two single appointmemnts she has had 1 single and we have had two together. Each one gets better, we talk about communicating and things that caused the affair. I know that the WS and MC have talked about her trust issues and intimacy issues. We also talk about trust and how both of us can give that back to the other. The counselor I think is very frank and does well in dealing with both of us.

We had our first real date last night, dinner and an excellent one man play - "Defending the Caveman" It went well until the way home when she asked what was bothering me. We had talked a couple nights ago that I needed to tell her when things bothered me. So- When I got home yesterday she was on the phone in the garage and when I pulled up she walked off away from me. Now she probably did this to be able to hear. But it hit some of the triggers and it set me off. I didn't tell her at the time, just unloaded my work stuff and thought about it for a while and said it really wasn't anything to be upset about. When I told her she was upset that I didn't trust her and that her efforts to be trusted weren't being noticed or appreciated. And it wasn't that. I was trying to be honest with her and that kind of upset the night.

This can be hard. I think we are on the right road for now, but there is a lot of things that still are laying out there to be talked about.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 04/25/09 09:47 PM
That concerns me BHFF. Usually when the fly off the handle like that they were talking to the OP. She could have just said "oh honey I was talking to Clarisa." Did she tell you who she was talking to? You always leave stuff like that out.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/26/09 04:49 AM
Originally Posted by BHFF
When I told her she was upset that I didn't trust her and that her efforts to be trusted weren't being noticed or appreciated.
This statement is totally about her, no remorse whatsoever. She is so very wayward.

If ..... NC had been in place from the moment you knew WW worked with OM, that conversation could have been different.

WW " I'm sorry, I wasn't thinking something like that would trigger you, it won't happen again"

WW is still in the A. How do you know it wasn't OM she was talking to? Even if it wasn't, she is still wayward.

I will never understand how something else can trump NC, when it is a vital part of ending the A and rebuilding the M. ????

Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/29/09 09:16 PM
Update and question-
The last 3-4 days were hard, the phone arguement has cooled off, and we spent last night talking. I was supposed to have an individual appt with the counselor, but fumbled the days so I had a couple hours for myself, to sit and meditate (my form anyway).
It was our anniversary yesterday, not much was said. I sent her flowers at work, and got her a chi hair straightner (I know it isn't romantic but she has wanted one for a long time and wouldn't buy it for herself). She had just done 4 12 hour shifts at work, and was very tired. Things still seem to be progressing but very slowly.

My question- I had never doubted that I wanted to save my marriage. I have never doubted that I love my wife. But lately doubt fills me and I wonder if I can get over all the pain. Sometimes I have trouble with the images and questions. I dont know if I even want the answers to some of the questions that pop in to my head. Is this a stage? Is it something all BS go through as healing progresses?

Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/30/09 03:48 AM
Another question. WW has agreed to talk openly about the affair. At times I want to ask for all the details and then I sit and have trouble with what I do know. What about the other BS's. Do you feel better knowing all the details? Are there questions you wish you hadn't asked? Is knowing the details going to prolong my pain?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Confront or not confront - 04/30/09 12:05 PM
BHFF

You can start with a complete time line. Asking general questions. Name, where does OM live work, how they met, how the affair progressed, who helped cover or her, who else knows, how it ended.

You can always then go for more details.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 04/30/09 10:03 PM
I know the general details. It is the other specific details. I dont know if I want to know, then I feel like I have to. Very confused
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 04/30/09 10:58 PM
You ask what you want at the time.
I've read here where it was suggested to write down a question that you aren't sure you want to hear the answer to, leave it for a day or two, and then decide again if you want to ask.
It's up to you how much you need to know, not WW.

BHFF, please tell us that WW no longer works with OM.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/01/09 12:09 AM
Vittoria,
I cant tell you that she is not, however one job did call and wants her to come to work very soon. This is not something I can push on. But I think she is going to work for them.

But I really want response to my first question. Is my doubt after this time common. Or am I seeing the light and my gut is trying to tell me something?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 05/01/09 01:51 AM
You may not listen to me anymore. But I will throw this out anyway. If she doesn't take the Job, the affair isn't over.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/01/09 09:35 PM
Ouchthathurt-

Ouch that hurt wink you have been one of the people who kicked me in the a** the hardest and I appreciate it. I dont know that I can call you friend, but you have done what I think a friend should do- give their opinion without reservation. I would do the same for my friends.

She is taking the job, the employer is working out some logistics. Should happen in a couple weeks.

I just wonder do BS's go through this were now I am wondering if she will ever meet any of my needs. I wonder if this is what I want. Can I forgive? Just a lot of swirls of thought that sometime are going opposite directions.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 05/01/09 10:06 PM
Quote
But I really want response to my first question. Is my doubt after this time common. Or am I seeing the light and my gut is trying to tell me something?
Everything you are feeling is par for this A course.
Yes, the doubt to stay, the doubt that your spouse loves you, the doubt that you love your spouse, the doubt about everything ....

And these emotions change day to day, hour by hour.
There are threads over on the R forum that may be helpful for you to read.

Quote
I just wonder do BS's go through this were now I am wondering if she will ever meet any of my needs. I wonder if this is what I want. Can I forgive? Just a lot of swirls of thought that sometime are going opposite directions.
WW won't start to meet your needs until she has gone through withdrawl and is ready to start rebuilding the M.
Then she will want to help you heal too.
Forgiveness is up to the BS. This is something that takes time.
You've come this far, don't give up yet BHFF. The road gets longer and harder, but you do get to good place with time. And you can have a great M. WW is still wayward, you cannot count on her for anything right now.

These are the steps to R, in this order.
NC between WW and OM
Withdrawl of OM
WW commits to rebuilding

Withdrawl cannot happen until NC. WD usually takes a few weeks or longer (not sure on the specific time frame) but the wife that you knew long ago will slowly reappear.
Rebuilding cannot happen until withdrawl has ended.

Do you see why everyone has been so anal on NC?

WW should quit present job until she starts new one.

Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 12:10 AM
faithful are the wounds of a friend.

An enemy will stab you in the back. A friend will stab you in the front.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 02:40 AM
Amen
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 02:42 AM
So do I demand she quit? The reason she is staying (her words) is that she has to be able to take care of the kids if this doesn't work. Somedays I am good, somedays I am very lost. Thank god I found all of you.
Posted By: catperson Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 03:48 AM
Do you mean should you demand she leave her current job, when the second one starts in two weeks? I would vote yes. You can live without 2 weeks' pay, but you can't live with a wayward who won't make extraordinary precautions to reassure you.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 10:33 PM
The new job could be as much as a month away.

I know there has been contact, but I think the affair is over. Over for good? Who knows. But after going thru my mopey phase (you know I never had phases before) this last week, you know what? Cant control her, dont plan to. She knows the deal. No affair. All watchdogs are in place. If she wants to come back to a stable man, that loves her very much, who would move heaven and earth for her, here I am. No more sick to the stomach guy. No more worrying and wondering. If she does go back, she will slip up and we are done. I know she has had bad examples all of her life for relationships and she is working through that. So hard into plan A.

Will I demand she leave current job? Probably not. Why? Because she will move into another place where the same thing could happen again. I believe in no contact (Kind of contradict myself) but if I demand anything one of us will have to leave. That will defeat plan A. All of you will probably disagree, go ahead it is a free world. I will argue with you because that is the mood I am in.

Do I doubt I want to stay? No. Will I stay if I continue to be not respected? No way. I dont want my boys to grow into men that would tolerate that from their wives. I want them to have examples of strong men that can stand for themselves and know how to give love to someone that will give it back. I want them to grow into honorable men, that know how to treat women they way they should be treated. So I will not stand for treatment like I have received. She will leave.

As much I think that two parents can raise children much better than one, as much as I believe that saving my marriage is more important than anything else, I know that for them to grow into strong men, I must be strong. I must be stable. I must let them see how two people who love each other treat each other. I will not let them live with lies and deceit. While I think we are on the road to recovery (long road) and I will fight, I will not be lied to anymore. I will show my wife love, respect and kindness. When that is not returned then we will have to move on.

So head up, back straight, grab your *****, and lets get on the road to make this better. If she falters and falls I will try to pick us up. If she cant be picked up, then she gets to lay on side of the road like the roadkill she has become.

Go ahead let me have it. I feel like fighting and got no one to fight with so bring it on rant2
Posted By: Vittoria Re: Confront or not confront - 05/02/09 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by BHFF
So do I demand she quit? The reason she is staying (her words) is that she has to be able to take care of the kids if this doesn't work.
This is fog babble. This is the stuff that you just ignore, do not challenge it, just change the subject.

I vote with catperson, and forget about the 2 weeks loss of pay. You can't demand that she leave, that's a bit LB. I can't remember, but wasn't it your WW who offered to leave her job in the beginning??? If it was, WW may not give you any grief about quitting.

You can tell WW that her leaving this job, Monday, is a huge step to rebuilding your M, and say "that is what we both want, isn't it" Use phrases like that. It's also not a LB to let her know how much her going to that job, hurts you everytime she walks out the door.

Don't bother to let her in on the steps to R that was mentioned above. WW will see it as you trying to educate/force her into R. She may get her back up and not quit.

Bring good family memories, you two as a couple memories up in conversation. Stay away from the negatives.
We all understand the 'lost' feeling and the up and down, it sucks, but it gets better if you follow the plan.

Are you understanding things better??

Have you considered phoning the Harley's?



Any eyes reading ..... suggestions welcome about what to BHFF should say to WW???


Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/07/09 02:28 PM
So-
Found proof of intimate conversation via Facebook. (if I knew how I would virus them out of the sky). The EA is not over, dont know about the PA. I am pissed.

I read the Borderline article and wondered where the camera on my marriage has been. She is more distant, less likely to talk, and the walls ge taller. She says I need to work on me before We can fix us.

I am tired of the lies. I am tired of the disrespect. I am tired of not feeling any love inside of my marriage. So-
what to do, what to do? I am thinking seriously about kicking her out with full exposure to her family. I will have to work on some kid details but that is the thought.

This may be an interesting weekend.

Thanks to all I will let you know.
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Confront or not confront - 05/07/09 02:37 PM
Why would you NOT expose to her family? I didn't read all 15 pages of your thread but I can't think of any reason to keep this quiet. I believe exposing to my wife's family was the key to ending her A.
Posted By: catperson Re: Confront or not confront - 05/07/09 02:44 PM
You haven't exposed yet? WTH?! Why on earth not?
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Confront or not confront - 05/07/09 03:46 PM
BHFF,

Plan B? What has your Plan A been like so far?

Keep in mind that during an affair the WS will manifest many if not all not the characteristics of BPD as well as many of the symptoms of the narcissistic personality. This is probably because of the addiction to the feelings created by the affair. The way to tell the difference is to examine the relationship BEFORE the affair and see if those same drama queen tendencies were there all along or if they only began to manifest themselves during the time of the affair.

Was the lying and manipulation present from the beginning? If so then BPD is a very real possibility. Was sex used as bondage (not talking handcuffs here) and control or was it shared as equals? Did your WW always thrive on drama and crisis? Does she tend to distance herself from any form of real intimacy with you and the children not just during the last few months but since the beginning of the relationship.

The thing about an affair is that it is a purely selfish thing and in order to carry it out the selfishness must be manifested by the person carrying out the affair.

When I first read about BPD during my wife's affair I was flabbergasted by the way it described her then current actions and words. But having raised a child who was diagnosed bipolar when in her early teens I also saw clear symptoms of manic phase actions and poor decision making. When I first read Dr Harley's description of the Electric Fence personality I saw at once the behaviors my wife was manifesting and as I began to look into addictions I found that any and all of those same things show up in a list of what appears in the life of an addict. It was this last list that caused me to agree that an affair is a very real addiction and led me to look further into the chemical/neurotransmitter actions in the brain during a period of "falling in love."

So if your wife was once a sweet and loving gal who has only recently shown selfish tendencies and an inability to show any sort of empathy then I would suggest that perhaps her actions are purely the result of the affair and not a diagnosable disorder. If on the other hand she has always shown these types of personality traits and has always been a liar and manipulator and thrives on drama and crisis, I would do whatever it takes to extract yourself from this relationship.

But before you run off and divorce her, be sure you know that you are really dealing with someone who is never going to be able to be an equal marriage partner. You were advised to expose pages ago. Who knows about this besides you, us and your WW?

Plan A is supposed to win her back by making you a better choice than OM. But MOST WW's will try to cake eat and keep OM in the loop as "a friend" since they are getting some EN(s) met by OM. In most cases the affair isn't about sex to the WW anyway so to her the PA only happened to prolong the EA where she was getting whatever EN she was getting met by OM continue being met. (Yeah, the affair partners manipulate the hell out of each other) So for HER the "relationship" didn't begin as wanting to leave you for OM and become his sex-salve but as a "friendship" that met one or more of her ENs. It was how she justified what she was doing at first since she did not begin with the idea of cheating on you at all.

So until that kind of thinking is challenged directly, she will engage in whatever way she has left to prolong that fantasy that she has created, which BTW, has NOTHING to do with what OM might or might not be expecting from the relationship. The BEST tool to end this line of logic is the mirror of reality and truth that comes from exposure.

To you her affair is boinking OM. To her it is conversation, admiration, affection and openness and honesty (ironic, that part) that comes from "SHARING" with OM.

Two things can still turn this around IMO. One is exposure which will cause others to see what is going on and when SHE knows that THEY know the truth, she will be forced to examine her own actions. The second thing is to confront her directly and express your feelings about what is going on. She does NOT define an affair as having contact with another guy since to HER it was not about sex to begin with. When you confront her you must be in total control of your own outward appearance and manner.

If you scream, shout, threaten and escalate things to her being nothing but a common wh*** then expect the turn to be for the worse. If you state that you KNOW she is still in contact and that contact hurts you (make it about your feelings and not her actions) she MIGHT be more open to change.

Now if all of this is about she is still looking to get her ENs met because you aren't doing a very good job of that then look at her ENs to see what you are missing. What are her top 3 - 5 ENs? Can you identify them? What are you doing specifically to meet each one of them?

If you want her to end the affair for good and never have another, you have to get her to engage in fixing the marriage from her side of the equation as well as fixing your own half. Unless you give her some compelling reason to do that she has no motivation to engage you at all, since her "IMPORTANT" ENs are met quite nicely by OM without her having to engage in sex with him (at least in her mind) and the way to win her back is to be a consistantly better choice than OM. Meet her ENs, avoid Love Busters and blow her fantasy to pieces by letting the rest of the world know that she is having an affair.

Look at it this way; if she REALLY wanted you out of her life so she could be with OM, she would be gone and living with OM already. That means she has reason to stay. Now give her the reasons she needs to give up OM.

Meet her ENs.
Avoid Love Busters.
Expose the affair.

Doing the first two without the third gives her more reason to eat cake. Not doing the first two at all or poorly gives her no reason to end the affair. It takes all three pieces to give her a reason to change.

Seek a resolution of the conflict instead of avoiding it...

Now if she has always been a manipulative conniving cut-throat b!tch then drop what you are doing, get to a lawyer and run as fast and as far as you can to get away from her and take the kids with you.

You have no (as in zero, nada, zip, zilch, nyet) control over anything she does. You only have control over what you do. If you do certain things, she might respond a certain way. If you keep doing what you've been doing and it does not make her do what you want her to do, you need to change something. Since you can't change her, find out what you can change in yourself and then do it.

:twobyfour:

And in case no-one has gotten the message through to you yet, when exposure happens she will be mad enough to chew up railroad spikes and spit out thumbtacks. EXPECT it. ANTICIPATE it. KNOW that it will be so and know how to disengage from the nuclear holocaust that will ensue. You goal is not to prevent her from being angry, it is to get her to end the affair entirely and commit to rebuilding the marriage.

What have you done so far?

How's that workin' for ya?

Mark
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/17/09 11:38 PM
Sorry about my absence, I told her I was thinking about leaving after my last post, she told me she wanted me to stay and she loved me. It has been a long couple weeks, stomach flu through the entire family for 8 days, so not much marriage work outside of the fact I was the one who was affected the least and spent a lot of time caring for everyone. It is late, and will try to post more later.
Posted By: BHFF Re: Confront or not confront - 05/18/09 06:18 AM
So this ought to make all of you laugh-
At work, bored to tears, sitting around having stupid conversations. Started talking about cell phones, what they do now, blah, blah. I said hey did you see you can even locate someone with them now? On the internet, signed up for it, WW got a message that that part of our plan had been activated. (BTW she was "working late") Get a phone call, why have you done this? Because I am playing around, sent you a text told what we were doing. Well WW is not working late she is with GF. Starts fight.
Rest of long story-
Babysitter calls, DS sick, cant console him cant reach mom. Leave work, 11 PM, pick up DS take him home, no WW. Dont know where WW is, phone is turned off. Slept grand total of 1 1/2 hours, coffee and nicotine now keeping me moving.
WW told me earlier that she was with GF who had broken up with her BF and needed consoling. That part is true. But, hey here I am.

What to do, what to do..............
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Confront or not confront - 05/18/09 07:40 AM
If she turns her phone off again then pack her clothes, leave them on the porch.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Confront or not confront - 05/18/09 07:58 AM
Hey BHFF,

Sorry to hear about recent events. Have you dropped the Mr. Needy yet? You have to show some of that tenacity you exhibit on the job. You cannot wait around like some pathetic clingy character. Even if she is not doing the other guy, she still isn't respecting you. Everytime she has gotten the feeling that you are finally going to man up on her she says she loves you and you cave. The best thing was when you activated the phone locator. Have you shown her the side of you that is confident yet? Make her stay home with the kids. Make her worry about where you are. If she pulls away, you pull away. I would not even come home the next set of days off you get. Go fishing. She needs to know that what she does effects how you treat her. She hasn't had to put any effort in the marriage, because you are doing it all for her. She hasn't had to worry that she is going to lose you. Why don't you make her worry that she is going to lose you. But its your marriage.
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