I'm wondering if anyone has gotten to a place in their recovery where they can say that they forgive the other person for having the affair with their spouse?

I can say that XW and I have had this discussion and we decided that if Slag ever decided to call us for help we will be there for her if she wants to talk or whatever. Or maybe I should say when? Ha ha!!

Charlotte

Has h3ll frozen over yet? Sorry, not gonna to happen.

Want2Stay

No.

Yes. I found it much easier to forgive OW than WH.

No i have not and doubt i ever will!!!!!

I feel a bit like Silda, although it might be a stretch to say that I have forgiven OW. I have found it possible to just stop blaming her, or fretting about what she "did to me".

I feel sorry for her having degraded herself, especially since her children, siblings and some colleagues know a lot about how she has behaved in her marriage. I have moved from feeling jealous and competitive to being glad that I am not her. I don't think I could actually forgive her, because that would be like saying that her intervening in my marriage does not matter. However, I can just dismiss her as an issue in my marriage today, and I certainly do not hate her.

I struggle to understand the Christian concept of forgiveness as it applies to this situation. My understanding is that forgiveness involves essentially writing off the debt and not seeking recompense for the harm caused - letting it go. I can't find a way to let go and move forward in my marriage on the grounds that the harm was done but is now past and no longer relevant. I think it will be relevant for ever, although I don't want it to make us unhappy for ever.

I really struggle with forgiving my H.

Yes

Forgiving the OW was never an issue for me. She was and is nothing to me. She made no promises to me, I had no vows with her. I feel very sorry for her and I pray for her and her husband and her marriage. What she meant for evil God has used for good.

I have read with dismay in the last few days the threads about affairages and the people involved in them even if they are beloved relatives and I am so glad that God does not judge me for my mistakes in the past. I am covered by the very blood of Jesus and so is the OW and so is Paul Newman. While we self righteously condemn, Mr Newman may very well be sitting at the right hand of God.

I will not allow myself to be defined by this period of sinful infidelity in our life. I will not let the OW lure me into a lifelong period of sinful unforgiveness. The Bible is very clear that God does not rank sin in any order. Gossip and murder are often mentioned in the same sentence. He has also made it clear that if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven.

Enough heartache has been caused in our life and our marriage with the help of OW. I will not let her have any affect on my eternity.

God's Blessing,

Say

Yes.
She is irrelevant.

Yes. Never really blamed her that much to begin with.
Every one is looking for love,companionship and support and when its lacking the human species has a survival insticnct that causes us to take it from where ever we can get it.
So I dont blame the OP for not evaluating the costs to her, FWH or myself by attempting to get them thru an A.
As a matter of fact I dont blame FWH at this piont either. It does not mean that the pain is gone it just means that the anger is not there anymore.
Blame is easier for me to let go than the pain of it.
Any one been able to let go the pain ?

I have not actually said "I forgive you". I think I'm getting there. Schoolbus helped me realize in the back of my mind I'm not 100% convinced my FWH is deserving. He knows in his heart I've forgiven him and people here write you should say the words but I just haven't been able to. There are memories that still come up and cause the undeserving thinking.



Harley's section on forgiveness link
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

GG

I tried.

She KEEPS making HORRIBLE choices and my kids are unwitting witnesses to them.

I can't anymore.

The only thing I can do is not bad mouth her in front of them...and I do that for THEM and not her.

I don't think about the OM much.

I don't think I ever considered forgiving him.

I think if I was to see him dangling over a cliff, hanging on for dear life, and I was the only one in sight, I'd wish him "good luck" and move on.

Recently my sister was confronted by a former mutual friend that had made moves on my bil (hence FORMER).

Former friend was threatening suicide and my sister told her not to make it a messy one because people are already tired of cleaning up after her.

I will never forgive the OW. I will probably forget about her, but I won't forgive her. She isn't remorseful and hasn't asked and likely never will. To forgive someone who isn't remorseful is akin to giving them permission to do it again.

I find it easier to blame her than WXH. This is probably because I have memories of WXH being a decent human being doing decent, and even - dare I say - honourably things. OW is nothing but a lying, serial cheating, homewrecking piece of toxic waste. I know her in no other capacity than this.

But despite my venom above, I'm not consumed by hatred or anger towards OW. I don't think of her much. There's a pretty good chance that I'd swerve if she ran out in front of my car, but I can't say I wouldn't kick myself later for the missed opportunity.

>OW is nothing but a lying, serial cheating, homewrecking piece of toxic waste. I know her in no other capacity than this.


Her initials aren't VD are they?

No but maybe they are related. Her maiden name starts with a D.

Neither the OP or my XW have even asked for forgiveness. I'm willing to give it, as soon as they say what they did was wrong and they want to be forgiven.

I don't dwell on it, so I'm not consumed by unforgiveness. But I don't think it's proper to just call someone up who has hurt you and say, I forgive you of your sins.

First off, not even God does that. One has to confess sin and request forgiveness according to what I read in scripture.

Second, unless they think they've done wrong, the unilateral offer of forgiveness is largely meaningless.

So it's my opinion that one is called to work towards the mental/emotional state where you are willing to forgive the OP or even your XW should they ask. But you are not called, and I would say even discouraged from going to that person and unilaterally saying you are forgiven.

I specifically told my XW during her affair that there was nothing I wouldn't forgive if it's confessed and repented of. I said forgiveness was there, offered to her. She took the stance that she was doing nothing wrong, so there was nothing for which she needed forgiveness.

Since I only heard "I'm sorry" once or twice in the marriage, it's unlikely she'll ever seek forgiveness for her affair.

OW will never fathom that she did anything wrong. She's done this multiple times with many different guys and she is in a constant wayward mindset. She asks "why does this always happen to me?" whenever the man goes back to his family, and she doesn't care about the pain I or any of the other BS's have been put through. She only cares that we think she's a horrible person. It will always be about how people view her.

So in my opinion, she will never be worthy of anyone's forgiveness because she will never be repentant for what she's done to all these families and her own children and XH.

I also can't forgive her for pretending to be my friend throughout the entire ordeal. She'd hang all over me in public, look me in the eyes and smile, invite us to the park, and hug and play with our DD every single day when we picked up my H for lunch. At least he was being an a$$ and an alien the whole time. She didn't see anything wrong with what she was doing. She kept trying to make me like her even though she was ****ing my H.

Every day I'm moving closer to thinking of her as the "nothing" that she is. She doesn't deserve a place in my thoughts.

Whoa.

"Forgive" isn't the right word. I could never forgive the wh0re for what she did. She's lower than dogsh*t stuck to the bottom of my shoe, and always will be. Rather, I've chalked it up to it being on her long list of other bad choices, knowing it won't be the last one she makes. The karma bus has hit her in the past, and I know it'll come back for seconds (and thirds) because that's just the type of garbage she is. I've chosen not to let it eat me alive, but like some of the others, if I ever came across her needing my help, I'd probably just spit in her face.

Hmmmm, at first I felt sorry for her. WH said & did awful things to her & I didn't think anyone deserved that- not even OW. But, then I spoke to her & it all went away. Probably the ugliest, meanest woman I've ever encountered.
I can't say that I've forgiven her (although she sent me a series of texts this fall saying she wished we could put this behind us & be sociable. I'm really not sure what I've done for her to forgive & forget. Other than breathing & being married to the man she decided she wanted.)
she disgusts me, but I choose not to spend my time on earth being bitter & I know she will continue with the poor choices. She's been flattened by the karma bus a few times & I'm sure it will continue.
I do TRY to pray for her ever single day. We had a preacher once that told us to always pray for those we had hard feelings towards. It's very difficult to have ill will towards someone you are praying for. I've found in the past it helps but in this case- some days it's very difficult to muster that prayer.

I haven't forgiven because for ME, forgiveness must be REQUESTED and that's never been done, nor will it because she cannot find us.

That's ok, I don't need to forgive her in order to move on with my life. In a way it does keep me in the "I-hate-her" mode because I agree with Tabby in that "OW is nothing but a lying, serial cheating, homewrecking piece of toxic waste. I know her in no other capacity than this.".

And from the very little I know of her, she probably still believes she is a VICTIM in all of this, so probably thinks we owe HER an apology. She is not only delusional but pathetic.

It's weird because once in a while, if something DOES remind me of her, I actually feel very sorry for her. But then I remember that she CHOOSES these things...they don't just "happen". Selfishness has it's consequences, afterall.

Nope. Knowing that H was just as guilty as she was for engaging in the A, I actually tried to be understanding of how she ended up in an A only to witness what a total nutjob she is. I blame H 100% for his A but she is and always will be the biggest POS low life inflicted with a special brand of stupid. POSOW wasn't sorry for any part of the A and spewed venom at my H and her H to try and justify her disgusting behavior. So while H and skankho are guilty of the same sin, OW continued to be vile towards everyone even after Dday. She can rot.

Funny how OW's all have similar traits, just as WS's do, isn't it?

Maybe someday. I am starting to feel sorry for her. She is really broken.

I have forgiven her.

Doesn't stop me from laughing at her, though.

The two are different.


For me, forgiveness was "for me". She's a broken person, much more in need of something......I don't know what.......than I am.

Despite the many things I have been through in my life, the OW in my case is a mess. I look at her and I just think, "What a complete mess of humanity. Whatever will it take for her to find God?"

And with that, I realize that she is so very lost, and I cannot help but give her my own forgiveness, because she does not seek God's. Who am I but nothing next to Him, and perhaps I can at least clean that one little bitty slate. Besides, if I let her transgressions against me go

I am free of HER

in so many ways.


Which then frees me up to laugh once again - and believe me, she is a laughable source. Like when she runs the other way in the store to stare at me through the shelves, with her bad make-up job and all. What a mess. You have to laugh - it takes me back to middle school!

Anyway, the affair? It never was about her anyway. She has her own set of problems, and her own complete world of he//. She lives in it. I don't have to know it, understand it, feel it, or worry about it.

It is far easier to forgive her than to carry her along with me for the rest of my life.

SB

Speaking of laughing at the OP, the other night at baseball my game was finished first so we were tailgaiting when the other teams started heading for the parking lot. Right about the same time OW and WXH were getting in their car, a guy from my team was pulling out, stuck his arm out the window and waved. I waved back. WXH must have thought I was waving at him and waved back at me - a big wave! You should have SEEN the daggers coming out of OW's face right then! I'm sure they had a great discussion on the way home!

This brings to thought another thread on another board that asked if you'druther the OP went on to find REAL love or rather that they are run over and over for the rest of their days by the Karmic Semi?

I said hands down I'd rather she found someone and was finally happy.

But then, I know she is not capable of doing it...

But it doesn't keep me from hopin.

Absolutely never.

OM was a serial adulterer and knew what he was doing and XW was unremorseful and tried to have OM kill me to cover her affair.

Forgive the OP?

I'd have a limb amputated if I knew it would cause OM to get inoperable brain cancer.

So no, I won't be forgiving him any time soon.

I feel the same way, absolutely, but I question whether it is possible...she was/is(?) so broken and sets herself up for dysfunctional relationships. It's very sad, actually.

W3,, This is a good topic,,, Have I forgiven the FOW, no.

And it is a two edged sword for me, I know that I am to forgive her, I do believe that. But, she has shown me nothing in the way of remorse.

I know that my hubby was the one that broke the vows to me and he is the one who opened the door to her, and he is the one responsible for the damage and hurt he caused me and our family, I get it.

But she is not innocent in this, this was her 3rd relationship with a married man, she knew exactly what she was doing.

How do I forgive that?? I have tried over and over again to pray for her,, for her to be healed and for the strenght to forgive her.

I want so much for her to be irrelevnt! My hubby has totally let her go, I hope that I can too, this is the last river I have to cross for my healing!!!!
F-26

This is me exactly. Just as this thread resurfaced yesterday, I was starting my own with an incredibly long explanation about the same thing.

I've tried praying for her off and on, particularly when H send a harsh NC e-mail two days before Christmas.

I had mostly put her out of my mind until recent revelations from H caused me to realize just how culpable she was in this whole mess. Had she ever been honest with her intention to end our M and get H to move 1000's of miles from his family, he likely wouldn't have pursued the A.

On the other hand, had she not been playing him, he might have found someone closer to home and that would have presented a whole other host of problems. Maybe I should be grateful that she kept my nut-job H occupied during the worst of his midlife crisis.

Letting go and forgiving are two different things. Forgiveness means you will think of, see, and treat the person as if what they did never happened. This is why remorse is a requirement, because to forgive someone who is unremorseful essentially means you are giving them permission to do it again. You can let go of your hatred/anger/obsession or any other negative feeling toward her without forgiveness. This is what is liberating - when you know that person is lower than a parasite, yet you don't let them bother you. Remember, every ounce of energy you spend thinking of her is just another way for her to exert power and control over you. Don't give her that power.

Tabby I totally agree with you that I give her way too much time and energy, and that I need to stop it and let go.

And that there is a difference between letting go and forgiveness.

I have been to counciling, I have tried the rubber band on the wrist when I start obsessing on her, My T put me on meds for boarder line OCD. (like I do anything boarder line LOL). Shoot if it's been suggested I've tried it.

It is so aggrevating to me, she is not worth it, she truly is pond scum and so the cycle continues... I know it has to stop or I will drive myself insane (er) anywho,,, thanks guys for the responses,, F-26

Bea I just read the thread you started and I can relate!!!

I love what schoolbus wrote,, "Look at your marriage not the OW for answers".

Take care F-26

>I know it has to stop or I will drive myself insane (er) anywho,,, thanks guys for the responses,, F-26


I literally had to train my mind to think of something else.

Now, I only worry when the donor calls or it's her weekend with the children.

Before, it was like my brain was a gerbil on a running wheel...going and going and running and running in circles all day and into the night...UG!

Faith - are you comfortable enough in your recovery to attempt to let it go? Your sig line sounds like you are there.

"it was like my brain was a gerbil on a running wheel...going and going and running and running in circles all day and into the night...UG!"

EXACTLY!!!! Yes I'm trying to retrain my thought process also.. it sucks!

Yes I am very comfortable in my recovery. My T asked what else I needed my hubby to do to help me and honestly, I couldn't think of anything!

I feel that this is in part like a self-protection mode,, like if I truly let go then I'll be setting myself up for being hurt again, but in the process I'm the one hurting myself by not letting go...

See lather rinse and repeat!!!

NO! and if wasn't for my wife I would twist his head off. He is lucky we are working things out.

> My T put me on meds for boarder line OCD. (like I do anything boarder line LOL). Shoot if it's been suggested I've tried it.


Talk to your T or doc.

Have you read up as to WHY you became this way?

Do you know that this cycle you are on (with the OCD) has been caused by the adultry, and your body has reacted in a perpetual "flight or fight" mode for so long that it cannot turn itself off anymore?

I am 6 years out from the first d-day, and 4 years out from the time I began my Auntie Ds. I cannot imagine how I would've been without them...prolly full blown nucking futz...4 weeks ago, I began the 8 week cycle of weaning myself off of the meds.

I haven't been as happy and content as I am now...ever.

I think you are right,,,It's frustrating,


Thanks F-26

FOW will always be somewhere buried in my brain amongst the other garbage.
I can't see myself ever forgiving her and I don't see the need to, I owe her nothing, she is not in my life. I may feel different in 20yrs, who knows.

There was a time when she consumed my thinking but as time dwindles on FOW gets more buried with the good things that are happening in my M.
FOW becomes compost and I have to keep her there, because I can't concentrate on her and my M at the same time, one has to win over the other.

And really, she doesn't deserve a thought in my head. But it's still hard sometimes, like now when I'm writing about the mole. Yuck.
I've also been lucky that FOW lives far away, has not hassled us and there is no OC involved which would make NC with her impossible.

>mole

What a GREAT analogy!

My 7th grade English teacher used to say someone was "a pimple on the posterier of progress..." - that would fit nicely, too!

Oh I like that one. POPOP

Ha! I had a priest in high school that used to say some people were "the poop stain on the underwear of life"!

Or "the BO in the armpit of life"!

He had a bunch...I'll try to remember them all...it was pretty funny, he was hilarious!

Yeah, she is half his age. He is at fault 100% She does not get off, but she probably had "father issues" that my WH is not able to come to terms with since he was so amazed such a wonderful person could "love" him. Hey, what was I? Fantastic, that's what! No, I can forgive her, but forgiving my WH is harder.

OP? If you ask me, WS (now XH) and OW are BOTH "OP"...how do I forgive either of them, because it's both of them who did it, not just one. I'm trying to get past it, let it have less significance in my life with each passing day, but nothing erases what they've done. They haven't made amends, that might have helped. I know I'm obligated to forgive so I haven't given up on the idea, I just wish someone would tell me exactly HOW to do so...someone who has been there and done that, not someone who has no clue what this is like. I've shown concern to both of them, is that forgiveness? They both get to live in my motorhome and drive my car, is that forgiveness? They both use the phone I'm still obligated to pay for, is that forgiveness? WTH is forgiveness anyway? HE made vows to me, that makes it even worse for him IMHO, but nevertheless, that doesn't let her off the hook either. I have NEVER taken someone away from someone else, not in my entire life, I don't see how a person justifies that. They went into hiding and stuck me with all the bills, which means that someday I will lose my home that I've worked for all my life, how do I forgive that? They have no conscience, how do I deal with that? At least I haven't (so far) had to deal with having someone attempt to murder me like Pariah...geez Pariah, I don't know how you deal with that. This is a sore subject...anyone really have any answers as to "how" we forgive? I mean, I pray, I try to take the upper road, I demonstrate kindness and caring, is that a first step in the process? When do you reach the point where you can say you've actually forgiven?