I'm not sure if this post belongs here, or in the "divorcing/divorced" group. My apologies if I'm in the wrong one.

Long story short (ok maybe not so short). July 7, 2009 - wife told me she's not in love with me anymore, hasn't been happy during the 13 years of marriage we've had, etc etc etc. Wants out. Shortly thereafter I found out about her EA. Various confrontations resulted and about 2-3 weeks ago, the EA ended; both my WW and the OP decided to call it quits. I believe the EA is indeed ended.

During this time, my wife told me she would be filing for divorce as soon as she had enough $ saved for a retainer for an attorney. I had no reason to doubt her. But I began working on my life, making positive changes for myself (which, truth be told, started happening before D-Day).

I'm living at home and have no plans to move out. Trying to fill the emotional needs of my wife that I have not been fulfilling for quite some time. That is, the needs that she will allow me to fulfill. Helping around the house; taking care of our 3 young children, doing family things, encouraging her in her new job, telling her when she looks beautiful, being a friend to her.

A couple weeks ago, she did file for divorce. I retained my own attorney. Obviously we are in the very initial stages however I expect this process to cost $15-$20k (which we don't have) due to complicated business entities we own, and my attorney says to expect about a year before the divorce is final.

I know that my wife has noticed the changes in me these past 5 months. She has said so to me and I can see her positive reactions when I do something that I may not have done before. She occasionally asks me "who are you?" because of these changes. We both seem happier together although we are not romantic in any way shape or form. Strangely she does things that tell me she is thinking of me, such as calling to get my opinion before buying something for our kids. Or, calling me to tell me she is running late. Or, calling me during the day to tell me how her new job is going.

Getting to my question...I feel like I'm just plodding along and am not in control of this situation. I feel like I'm in the backseat and my wife is in the front seat, driving. What should I expect to happen next, if anything is to happen?

In all likelihood will she continue with the divorce until it's final? My obvious goal is for reconciliation - I love her dearly - so what do I do in the meantime? Just continue doing what I'm doing? Do I try to "make a move" so to speak to try to show her how devastating a divorce will be to us and our children? Do I "make a move" to try to be affectionate with her? I know people here have said to avoid saying "I love you" - does that mean NEVER say it? Or say it without going overboard? Does saying it show a weakness or vulnerability in me from her point of view that may turn her off?

I'm totally confused here. This situation is different than described on a lot of posts from other BS's. Because many times the WW or WH who is having an affair, does not want to end their marriage, they eventually end their affair and rebuild their marriage. In my case, my wife had an EA, wanted a divorce, and now when the EA is over, STILL wants to divorce me.

To add insult to injury, our 13th wedding anniversary is coming up. What do I do about that?!

Thanks for any insight!

Hi,

I am sorry that you are in this situation. It would probably be better to post in the surviving an affair forum. There is more traffic there and you will get more responses from various folks. If you notify the mods, they can move the thread for you.

2-3 weeks isn't very long ago. What happened to end the A? Was your wife dumped by the OM? Are they still in contact, i.e. see each other at work or at social events? I would be very suspicious that the A went underground. From my understanding reading on this site, women in As do not usually leave the marriage unless there is something else lined up.

From your description of her feedback, it seems as though you are avoiding lovebusters and are working pretty well on meeting her ENs. Good job about not moving out, taking care of the kids, helping out around the house, etc.

Reference the anniversary, maybe you could ask her. If you put it in the context that this will be the last anniversary we may ever acknowledge together, we should do something wildly special.... or perhaps give her a taste of the future and ignore the day. I guess if you are in plan A, you would be doing something she would really like. Not sure how to handle this..... maybe someone else will have some ideas here.

I am sorry I am not more help to you. Hopefully, some MB vets will pop in on this thread.

AM

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry to hear of these events in your marriage.

I suspect that your wife is still in her affair.

Please click "notify" and ask the mods to move this post to Surviving an Affair, as already suggested. That forum has many people who can help you with this situation.

Thanks for the replies. I did notify the admin to move the thread as suggested.

What happened about 3 weeks ago, which I believe ended the EA, was when I talked to the wife of the OM for the second time. She had no idea this was still going on and was devastated and very upset. I believe she laid it on the line for him and gave him a choice - stay and end the EA, or leave.

A day after I talked to his wife, the OM sent me 2 text messages asking me to leave his wife alone, that I was making her feel bad and she doesn't deserve it. Yeah ok, like *I* was the one making her feel bad - I didn't cheat on her for crying out loud. Anyway, my point is, the OM seemed to be sticking up for his wife. I believe that is a good sign.

My wife wrote in her journal that she ended all contact and communication wit OM. She recently started a new job that is taking a significant amount of her time, so just from a time standpoint I don't see how they can be doing much of anything except via cell phone. I no longer have access to cell records so I have no way to know for sure if they are communicating that way.

However I have seen no suspicious activity from her, or lies coming from her like I had seen the last 4 months when the EA was going on. That is why I believe it is over. But, I remain suspicious and will watch closely...The OM and my wife do not work together and do not see each other in a social environment so I don't have to worry about that.

It will be interesting to see what other people say about what to do on our anniversary! One person in our family suggested writing my wife a letter and let her know my heart and specifically what our future might look like if we remained together and worked at it. She said regardless of whether my wife says it or not, that my wife DOES care about what I say and DOES care about how I feel about her. And such a letter would have an impact...But, from a MB standpoint I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not.

What you are doing is called plan A, keep meeting her needs.

How did you find out?

How did WW meet the OM?

How do you know it's over, and not hidden?

Bad sign when a WW stops having sex. Could be she has had sex with the OM. And now feels that to have it with you would be cheating on the OM.

Don't give up if you don't want a divorce. Tell your lawyer to stall.

Then you need to snoop if affair is dead.

Install a keylogger on your home computer. Check cell phone records.

jrnyman,

I think you need to become a lot more sceptical about this affair. There are some "I believe" statements in your post. My own experience, and what I have gathered from reading hundreds of posts here, is that you should not EVER take the word of someone who has had an affair. Only after you have gone through a significant period of verifying events can you take the word of a transparent, repentant FORMER waywards spouse.

First, what makes you think this was only an EA? Was it a one-way investment by your wife? If the OM was active in this relationship then it is unlikely that he limited his involvement to the emotional. He would have wanted sex, and would have given his attention, flattery and willingness to listen to your wife in the hope of sex. It is highly unlikely that he kept listening to her and flattering her if she made it clear that sex was off the table (so to speak!) This was in all probability a PA, since it lasted some months.

How did you come to speak to OMW twice? The fact that you thought it ended once before after exposure should tell you something about its strength.

I first found out about my H's affair in 2003 after the first six weeks. For over a week, we fought and blamed each other for the condition of our marriage (which was very bad). After taking deep breaths we said that we wanted to stay together and have a good marriage again. I did not try to find out OW's identity or anything else. We started what looked like a spectacular recovery. 2 years later, in early 2005, I discovered that he had never ended the affair - had never even told OW that I had found out - and had smoothly continued it.

I then thought I knew what I was up against, and after agreeing to try again, I tried to spy on his mobile phone. However, he simply left it at the office (it was a company phone) and so I had very few opportunities to see messages on it. When, in late 2005 I found out that the affair was continuing I told him to leave. Once again I changed my mind when he promised me the earth.

I found more text messages in summer 2006. This time I told H that I would leave, with the children, and not come back until he was out of the house. He said he would tell his boss that he would no longer travel in his job the next day. He did that, and so the physical side of the affair ended. (The affair took place abroad, where OW lives and H worked.) I stayed because he took this action.

You must immediately give up your faith in signs. That is equivalent to using horoscopes to cure cancer rather than medical science. The medical science cure for an affair is to snoop, discover and verify.

OM was not protecting his wife; he was protecting himself. He does not want his wife to leave and he does not want you to tell her things that will make her do so.

Immediately my H stopped travelling, OW rang me to tell me that she would leave my H alone. She begged me not to tell her H or kids, and I said that I would never do that. She then continued to phone, text and email my H at work, begging him to leave me and the children. At first, H told me about this contact and showed me the emails. Then he suddenly began saying that there was no further contact. I did not believe him but could prove nothing. I found the forums here and learned about the importance of telling the other BS.

In 2007, when H admitted to one teeny tiny text message from her saying "Happy New Year", I emailed her H and exposed. I found out then that HE had found evidence of what his wife had passed off as drinks and lunches in 2003. He had read the riot act to her and she said that she would never see my H again. She passed the whole thing off as not even a proper EA - when they had in fact been having sex for months, at least once in her marital bed. My H had dumped her then (in 2003), but when her H's rage had calmed down and he believed her tears and remorse, she and my H got back together again until my rediscovery in 2005. There were more dumpings and reconciliations each time they thought that I accepted my H's lies, until proper exposure in 2007. There was discovery after discovery with this affair, and many strong talks, ultimatums and threats from the BSs, and the affair continued through all of them (or at least, stopped for a few days and restarted).

The only reason that I know that there is no PA now is because her H watches from his end and I from mine. Also, both affair partners used to travel in their jobs, and we BSs have made sure that this has stopped.

This point makes no sense. If you believe that this was an EA, then you must see that talking on the phone is as destructive to the marriage as physical activity.

As for having a new job and being too busy: OW moved out of her home in 2005, from Monday to Friday, to take a work promotion in a nearby country. She had to pass various exams to get that job. She also kept on a part-time job that required some work from home and travel abroad about every 3 months for a week. She was very busy in her work.

However, she found time to spent many nights in my H's hotel bed quite near her marital home, when her H thought that she was alone in her flat over 200 miles away. She had no landline laid on to the flat and he could only reach her by mobile, which did not identify where she was. She also told her H that there was no landline laid on at her job, because it was in a new building. He believed that.

She would take a train after work and travel back to her country for a night, then get the first train out, at about 6, that gave her time to be back at her desk without missing a day.

Her H made her apply for a transfer back home if she wanted to stay with him.

If your wife has a private phone, you should get access to the online account. That would show you her calls in and out.

If you are not suspicious you will not see anything. I was DEEPLY suspicious after my false recoveries, and yet I could not tell what my H was up to by scrutinising his face, expressions, body language or verbal language. He lied smoothly, never blushed, increased his sexual activity with me, was affectionate, caring to the kids and, because the affair took place at work and abroad, never sneaked around at home.

I think you need to snoop, and then if (when) you find out that the affair is on, follow Dr Harley's plans.

I can only recommend faking your anniversary. I would take your wife out for a celebration, if she agrees to go. I don't think that there is any harm in writing the letter that your relative suggested, but you should be sceptical about her reception of it. If she is in her affair it will have no impact at all now, but will do once the affair ends.

Sugarcane-

Great post! I want to clarify something I guess I did not do too good of a job of in my original post(s). And that is, that I am HIGHLY suspicious of everything she does. If she is grocery shopping, I keep track of the time she is gone and compare that to the size of the load of groceries she buys. I check the receipt to see if the time of checkout matches the time she arrives home. And that's just one example.

I no longer have access to her cell records. She had an online account which I gained access to, to see all her calls in and out. When she found out I had access to the account, and was making copies of records for my protection, she shut off online access.

She recently bought a new PDA phone and has a password on the phone. I cannot gain access to it. She does not use text messaging, that I am assured of because I did see her paper statement and it shows zero text messages (but the paper statement is only a summary and shows no call detail).

I do not know for a fact that it was an EA and not a PA. How would I ever know that?

As I see it there are only a couple of ways I can see if this A is still going on. One is to install GPS in her vehicle. Second is to install a voice recorder in her car. I already have key logging software on her computer but she is smart enough to not use her computer for much of anything.

My gut tells me the A is over (and no I am not in denial because I definitely do not trust her). But like the old saying goes, "Trust, but Verify", I think I will do some snooping.

Do you think I should ask her to re-enable her Internet access to her cell phone, if she truly has nothing to hide what would be the problem? Or would that be a lovebuster? And what motive would she have to do it anyway, she has already filed for divorce so in her mind, she's done.

Thanks---

SugarCane, I have a question that just popped into my head. Let's say you are right and the A is still going on. I have already fully exposed to everyone. Her family is putting tremendous pressure on her, not by talking to her but by NOT talking to her. She knows every person in her family does not support one thing she has done or is doing through all this.

The main point of your post was that I should be careful about believing the A is over. But whether it is or is not, what do I do? What is my next step?

She has already filed for divorce, so it seems Plan B will be useless because she WANTS me to move out and separate. There is no leverage there. What to do?

Confused...

jrnyman, like SC, I believe the affair is still ongoing and this is what has initiated the divorce. They have simply decided to go further underground until they get divorced so that they will have more favorable terms.

If you have the evidence that your W is continuing the affair, you can use this information to expose that to everyone. Right now your wife is telling everyone her affair is ended and she wants out. If you tell everyone the TRUTH, that her affair is ongoing and that is why she wants the divorce, it will ruin her plans.

With evidence, you can contact the OMW, the OM's family, and explain to your children that she wants to wreck their family for an affair with OM.

Have your kids been told about the affair?

One of the best spy tools with someone who has a PDA is flexipsy, but I am not sure how you can get the spyware on the phone without her password. It tells you everything that is done on the phone plus operates as a GPS.

But I assure you she has gone further underground. You might want to even consider hiring a PI. But the solution will be to find out and expose the affair again.

The reason she has filed for divorce is because she wants to conintue the affair and probably to punish you for exposing her affair to the OMW. She has just gone further underground with her plans. A more comprehensive exposure will ruin the future of the affair.

She is hoping that you will COOPERATE with her divorce so she can move you out and replace you with OM. I would let her know that you will not cooperate with a divorce and will not be moving out without a court order. I would countersue on the grounds of adultery, keeping the house and full custody of the kids. If you live in a fault state, that is. If you live in a fault state, you can even call the OM to the stand to testify about his affair with your wife.

Your WW is counting on you to "cooperate" with her destruction so she won't feel as guilty. She has probably talked to you about being "friends" in the future and being good "co-parents." She is saying this in the hopes that you won't make her feel guilty - as she should feel - for destroying your childrens family. I would let her know this: a) you won't cooperate with her scheme to destroy your marriage and your childrens family and b) you won't be her "friend."

Let her know you would never have a "friend" who lies to you and cheats on you. You are not her "friend," but her husband.

I think it will be a huge wake up call if you set your children down and explain to them what their mother is doing to their family. She is wrecking their family for her affair. She should answer for that to your kids.

Hi MelodyLane thank you for the reply!

I'm going to get a GPS unit to put in her vehicle and maybe a voice recording device to hide in the vehicle as well. That will tell me whether she is being truthful and whether my gut feel is correct or not.

We shall see.

Our kids have not been told, they are very young, 2, 4 and 8. The 8 year old knows something is up. I do not plan on telling him mom is cheating, but I do plan on sitting him down to tell him mom and dad are having problems, and dad is doing everything he can to save our family from breaking up. I plan on having my wife there while I tell him this but make it clear to her this is a dad-son meeting. I want her there so she can see the look on my son's face.

Please understand I am not using my son in anyway to try to get revenge on my wife, I am only telling him the truth. He deserves to know what is going on. And I know my wife will be affected by his reaction.

Melody,

I can assure you I am not cooperating with the divorce. I have told her repeatedly I will not discuss any divorce with her. If she files, I will respond accordingly as law dictates. But I will NEVER cooperate.

You're right though, she wants to be "friends" and wants to be "good parents" for our kids. I told her a good parent does not break up their family like this.

We live in a no-fault state, and I've been advised that adultery does play a part in spousal support and to a lesser extent, in division of assets (but only by about 10%).

Regarding the flexispy software, I had heard of that, and if I ever get access to her phone after she types in the password (or after I see her type it) I will most definitely install it. That would make my day

jrnyman, that sounds like a good plan!

I would STRONGLY suggest that you don't lie to your 8 year old. 8 years old is old enough to understand the concept of adultery. He needs to know that your wife has been cheating and with whom. Her bad behavior should not be whitewashed in order to cover up for her. I suspect she plans on slipping the OM in as a replacement once she gets you out, so this will put the kabash on that plan if your son is forewarned that this scum OM is his enemy.

Dr Harley always recommends telling kids the truth about adultery. If you tell you son "mom and dad are having problems" and don't tell him WHY, he will just be confused and will grow up thinking that adults get divorced over trivial issues. And adultery is not a trivial issue. If you don't tell him the truth, your wayward wife will spin the truth to him and it will likely have you starring as the bad guy and her the victim.

He has a right and need to know the truth about what is happening in his own family. Additionally, he will need moral guidance about the issue of adultery. Your wife likely has a plan to replace you with the OM and if the boy doesn't know, he will be vulnerable to the OM.

I would tell him without your wife there, because she will try to lie to him and spin the story. Better to give him the truth and then allow him to ask her direct questions. She can answer for her bad behavior.

Dr. Willard Harley:

check out this one:

here

If you want this MP3, email me and I have the 1 hr MP3 of this show.

Talk is cheap with a WS. I suspect she just made this threat to punish you for calling the OMW and to scare you off. She is likely still in contact with the OM or is pursuing him but feels that threatening divorce will scare you off. Most WS's threaten divorce when they are exposed.


It is a GREAT little tool!

Jrnyman

All the advice about varifying the affair is right on. I can't tell you how many times my wife said the A was over only to find out later it wasn't. My W's A was VERY deep so it was very difficult for her to stop. Thats why we separated. One word of advice though. I know with all this A talk on this board your probably a bit paranoid. Be careful that doesn't come out in your conversations with your wife until it's verified, if at all. I used WEBWATCHER on her computer and it has helped tremendously. It's also very painful. Be prepared and don't react right away if you do find something.

jm,

I should just explain that my expertise (such as it is) lies in telling new posters how not to be the idiot chump that I was. I can direct you on Dr Harley's methods as they relate to NC (including not working together or travelling in jobs), false recovery, exposing to the other BS, cake-eating WSs, deluded and persistent OPs, lying and gaslighting. When it comes to anything else you are much better off with other people. I can see that MelodyLane's advice to expose the continued affair, and to tell your children, is absolutely sound. Others will help you more as the week rolls on; Sundays are really poor days for responses!

You should try and answer the questions you have been asked so far. It is really frustrating to try and give advice when we do not know what we are dealing with.

Tell us about the affair, as TheRoad asked you. How did you discover it? What were you told that made you think it was an EA? What makes you think it lasted 4 months? How did you find out OM's identity? Was he an old boyfriend? Is everything that you know based on your wife's descriptions, or have you found any evidence of the circumstances?

(For example, I found OW's first and surnames in a text message. I Googled her and, although she lives in another country, I immediately found her connection to my H's job, her home address and her home phone number. I later found her H's web page with family photos and his wife's maiden name. From her maiden name I found out the part-time job she had, and from the documents that the company put on the internet I found out that she and my H had travelled to several different countries to spend nights together. For example, my H had been to Slovakia on my daughter's 15th birthday one year, and OW's company documents showed a conference in Slovakia on that day. If I had left my husband to tell me anything he would never have revealed OW's name, much less that he had left me and our family to spend nights with her abroad, citing work as the reason for travel. He was not working; he was using annual leave that belonged to his children, and paying plane fares and restaurant bills that came out of family money, so that he could have sex, escape and excitement. Grrr.)

How did WW and OM meet - do they work together? Do you live near them? These situations will need to change if your wife ever agrees to go back to your marriage.

How did you come to talk to OMW TWICE? I take it that after the first time you thought that the affair would end. How did you rediscover it? When you spoke, did OMW know any more than you did? (I was shocked to speak to OWH and find that he had discovered the affair "drinks" 3.5 years earlier. As a result of my contacting him he gained access to his wife's email account and was able to see letters from my H setting up the affair - so I know exactly when it was consummated - and letters dumping her when he found out in 2003.)

Did you listen to what I underlined in my post above - that OM is not protecting his wife when he asks you to leave her alone? Think about it. Why would he look out for her health now?

In my own case, and the many cases of BS contact that I have read about here, BSs are almost always highly grateful to be contacted with information. Usually their world does indeed fall apart, but they let the other BS know that they wish to know of any further contact, and they offer to reciprocate.

It is that rich source of information that OM is worried about. He has spun the affair to his wife as nothing - a crush on the part of your wife, or a one-off lapse, or something else that shows it to be much less than it was (as your wife has spun it to you).

Does he live in a fault state? If he is the reason why your wife is divorcing, he does not want his adultery to come up in court, because he probably has a lot to lose. If he has no plans to leave his wife when your wife leaves you, then he does not want your talking to lead to a Slovakia moment (when you both put pieces together) and for his wife to divorce him.

Please try and answer our questions, and then plan how you can get back on the phone to OMW when OM is not at home, and have a real talk with her. Does she know that your wife plans to divorce you? Has she any feeling that her H plans the same thing?

Wow Melody. I looked and looked for advice on whether to tell my 8 year old about his mom's adultery and couldn't find much here. Most therapists say don't do it. In fact, here is a response from one that I talked to a few weeks ago:

"In any case, I do not recommend telling kids about an affair. I think the risk to their relationship with mom is too great. In many cases, it starts a cycle of �attacking� one another verbally, and leaves the kids wondering what to think."

Based on your reasoning, should I also tell my 8 year old about the fact that mom filed for divorce? And explain what that means? Personally I think not, because I imagine it would cause a lot of anxiety in him, wondering what day dad will move out of the house forever.

Mel and others,

If WW continues on the divorce path after jm finds evidence of a PA, would it be in his interests to countersue for adultery, even though he does not want to divorce? Even in a no-fault state, would it be worth getting the real reason for the divorce on record?

Reducing his financial losses must be worthwhile also. What do you think?

jrnyman, your wife has not filed for divorce. She is talking smack. Go by her ACTIONS, not her words. Most WS's threaten to "file for divorce" when the BS exposes the affair. It is a diversion tactic to scare you away from interfering with her affair.

Like SC said, the OM has probably lied to his wife about you and spun you as some "jealous nutjob who thinks everyone is chasing his wife." This is why it is so important to snoop and get the goods. Once you get the goods you can blow the affair up.

I would not tell him about her idle threat to divorce. Just tell him mom is having an affair and who it is with. Tell him WHO the OM is so she can't introduce your son to him. Many WS's try to introduce the kids to the OP in an attempt to normalize the affair. Tell him you are doing your best to save the marriage and that you will always be there for him.


Where are you going?? If this goes to divorce, which I doubt, SHE is the one who more likely will have to move since she is having the affair. She needs to be told VERY CLEARLY that you will not be cooperating in any divorce action, will countersue for adultery and WILL NOT BE MOVING.

No one is telling you to "attack" her but to tell your child the truth. Children can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. If you don't tell him the truth, your wife will tell him lies............about YOU. It is EVIL to whitewash bad behavior of parents to kids. It is lies and adultery that harm kids, not the truth.

Keep in mind, Dr. Harley is a licensed clinical psychologist with 35+ years of experience. He is much more educated and experienced than a therapist. As someone who was LIED TO as a child, I can tell you that it only screws kids up when no one will validate their instincts about the problems in their family. Kids need the truth and they need good solid moral guidance. Not telling them the truth just makes them more insecure and full of anxiety because they don't know is really going on so they are not prepared for the fall out.

Secondly, kids usually eventually find out and when they do, they are ill prepared. We have one boy here who was told by the OP's child at school "hey, we are going to be brothers!"

Sugarcane, yes, countersuing for adultery is an excellent tactic. We have members who did this and the OP was called into court to give testimony under oath about the affair. It sure takes all the fun out of adultery!

So I suppose the short answer to your question "Coasting along...What to do now?" is to stop coasting along. Start fighting a properly planned military operation.

Sorry everyone, let me take some time to explain the details of my wife's A.

In early July 2009 I wrote an email to my wife telling her I wasn't happy who I had become and that I wanted to be a better husband to her, and a better father. Before you ask, nothing prompted this change from the outside (i.e. her), it came from within me.

The next morning, I asked her if she got the email and she said yes but started tearing up. She said it was the most amazing thing I had ever said to her, but that it was too late. Later that night she wrote me a letter and I read it, and it basically said all the boilerplate stuff waywards say. She's not happy, she never has been, she doesn't love me, she wants freedom, she wants to start a new life, etc. That night, I stayed at my mother-in-law's house, and stayed for 2 weeks. Yes I know, it sounds weird. But her mother is a wonderful person and we get along great (very close-knit family) and I was hurting beyond imagination.

I went and talked to two pastors who asked me the same question - is there anyone else involved, I responded with an emphatic NO each time. But, their questions got me thinking. I went to the house one night to make dinner and when she stepped outside I got on her computer and saw a google search for a name of a guy who was a friend of mine. It didn't set off any red alarms but I thought it was odd. I got her cell phone and saw his number in there multiple times. Then I heard a voicemail from him, it was not sexual but there was no reason for him to be talking to my wife.

The OM is/WAS a friend of mine who I had met through my son's Cub Scout den. I know the affair started in early/mid June, I believe they met at our community's swimming pool as he would take his kid there and so would my wife. The OMW agreed with the timeframe.

I installed spy software on her computer and began capturing passwords and Facebook and email conversations. About a week later I confronted her. I did not yell, shout, or threaten her. I simply told her I knew she was having an affair, and I knew who it was. Stupidly, I never asked her to stop nor did I ask her what she intended to do. I figured she would stop now that she was discovered.

About a week later, she called me at my mother-in-law's house and said to come home right away. She was laying on the couch talking suicidal thoughts. We got her checked into a Christian counseling center where she stayed for 5 days. I am certain she hit bottom because of extreme guilt and shame and conflicting thoughts in her mind. I figured she would come back "fixed", and the A would end and we would rebuild.

Unfortunately, nothing of the sort happened. She came back "cured" of her suicidal thoughts, but the A continued (I could track via her cell phone and computer).

I confronted her a second time, this time I was more forceful, called her a liar, called her pathetic, and asked if this is the person she wants to be, is this the mother she wants to be?

Each time I confronted, she stopped communicating with OM for a few days but it would start again. This time, I exposed to everyone. Including the OMW. I had written her a letter and included proof (phone records, emails) and dropped it in her hand at her house.

But the A continued. I confronted my wife a third time, and still it continued. This time I went to OMW house and talked to her for an hour. She did not know the A was still going on, she thought it had ended a month earlier when I had dropped off the letter. She was devastated and angry. This time I am certain she gave OM an ultimatum.

It is at this time (about 3 weeks ago) that I "believe" the A ended. I see no suspicious activity as I had before (believe me, I watch for it). But as you and others have said, they have probably gone more underground.

We are Christians as is her entire family. Her family has put tremendous pressure on her via phone calls, in-person chats, letters. My wife has isolated herself because she doesn't want to hear from anyone that might sway her mind. It's unbelievable to my that my wife, who is the one that brought me to the church, has decided to ignore her faith and continue living in sin. I believe she knows better, but she reads these ridiculous secular books that basically say "do whatever makes you happy" and "your happiness comes first" - she is using this type of drivel to justify her actions. She even twists the word of God to justify her actions.

So, there's the long story - and that is where we are today.

That is a painful story, jm. I'm sorry. Thank you for all the information. I think I can see clearly what has happened lately.

You have been using the term "suspicious activity" to mean phone calls and emails. That is an odd term to use. These are not "suspicious activities", they are hard evidence of the affair, and there is a reason why you are seeing no more of them.

You gave OMW proof of their emails and your wife's phone records. OM told your wife after his wife confronted him. Your wife knew immediately how you were getting your info and she disconnected you from access. She got a new phone with a password so that you cannot spy any more (come on, jm, why else did you think she had done this?) and she stopped using the home PC. It is easy to conduct an affair without a home PC - my H did it for 3 years when we did not even have have a PC. He sent emails and made phone calls from work and left the mobile phone there so that I could not see text messages.

If your wife does not have a job outside the home then either she does not send any more emails or, more likely, she uses her phone or goes to cafes, the public library or the Apple shop. She uses her new phone to call and text, even if not for emails.

If the affair continued more than once before, despite your putting proof in the hands of OMW, then it is continuing now. Her anger, and her having issued an ultimatum, means nothing to OM if he thinks he can hide his affair - don't you see that? Don't you see from my account of what my H did? At home, he will be telling his wife that the affair is OVER, that he does not want to leave - never wanted to leave - loves her and his kids and is SO sorry. He might have stopped eating properly and slept badly when his wife told him she wanted him out, as my H did until I changed my mind. Then, once his wife is back on board, OM will have poured love all over her and made it seem as if he had learned from his fright. A few days later your wife will have called him and said "I can't go on without you. Please don't abandon me. I won't ask you to leave, just please see me again". He will have talked to her, and eventually will see her again. If he is not planning to leave his wife then he is a cake-eater, and this is what they do.

I don't think your wife hit bottom because of the shame and conflicting thoughts in her mind when she had her breakdown. I think she entered into the lowest despair because she asked OM to leave with her after you confronted her, and he would not. She saw herself as unloved by him and having nowhere to go, and she could not stand those thoughts.

That is just my opinion, based on what happened in my own marriage and what I have read here about the walk-away wife. Please feel free to reject it.

It seems that wives do not have affairs until they feel that they are in love with OM. They do not often have affairs for sex. Having made the decision that they are in love they follow that through to its logical conclusion. They will say that they do not love the H, because they cannot love both men. The H becomes someone who has not been loved in a long time, or is only loved as a brother. The classic line from a WW is "I love you but I am not in love with you." This is said to justify their walk-away feelings. They tell themselves that it is wrong for anyone to expect them to live in a loveless marriage, and that includes family and pastors. They decide they must leave, even if OM will not leave with them. If OM will not leave they feel wretched but continue with their plans. Perhaps they hope that OM will follow them.

I'll ask you again: what makes you think that this is an EA and not PA? Do you realise that if it is a PA, you might have contracted a sexually transmitted infection? You and OMW need to be tested. You need to know that facts on EA or PA.

My thoughts are probably hard to read, but they are really intended to help you. I think you cannot deal with this until you face up to what you're dealing with.

Thanks jrnyman. I don't believe it is an accident that you found your way here. [go look at the Marriage Builders LOGO if you want to see what I mean] Your marriage is very recoverable if you follow this plan.

Her affair is on the ropes right now and I think she is in mourning. If you can keep them apart, she will withdraw and as she withdraws, she will draw TO YOU if you continue to be a safe place to land. Don't pay any attention to her talk of divorce. It is almost always just TALK. And even if she does follow through, your marriage is still not over.

The odds are completely on your side. Her affair is doomed.

I will leave you with this powerful verse:

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
Philippians 4:13

Ummm, yes I am quite certain I know what a divorce filing looks like. I have it sitting on my desk, with the court filing #, her signature, her attorney's signature, and the judge's name assigned to the case. So she most definitely has filed for divorce! I have since retained my own attorney.


We live in a no-fault state. The courts do not care the reason for the divorce. In our state, I am told, the primary caretaker of our children has been my wife (she has been a SAHM for 8 years). And as such she will likely remain in the home so as to not disturb the children. That's the way it works in our state. [/quote]

sorry, I misunderstood you when you said:
I will bow out.

Melody, I probably should have clarified what I meant when I said "if she files, I will respond". That is what I said the first time she mentioned divorce, before she had actually filed. And that is what my response was - I will respond as necessary.

Then about 2 weeks ago, she actually filed.

I feel that I have a few things on my side. First, I'm doing the right thing thanks to people offering help such as yourself. Second, time is on my side - this divorce will be a long process (a year or more) and anything can happen in that time. Third, the cost of this divorce, and the effect on her life afterward, once it is realized by my wife, may cause her to rethink her divorce decision.

Does the fact that she actually filed for divorce change any of your opinions or suggestions on what I should do next?

Thanks

I think you should get some legal advice, and quickly. You mentioned she's a SAHM. So, guess who's likely going to be paying for her divorce? That's right - YOU.

I also think you need to seriously consider if you want to remain M'd to her. I think too often we men get caught up in the fight and the "need to succeed", only to realise afterwards that our victory was phyrric. Your WW may be handing you an opportunity here to discover what life might be like without an adulteress sharing it.

Mim-

Thanks for your reply. I've already been advised by my attorney that my wife may file to have me pay her attorney fees. So far, that has not happened - my wife paid her retainer using money she saved and money she used by selling things on Ebay.

Trust me I have already seriously considered whether I want to stay with her or not. Do I want to go through the pain and anguish? What will I end up with in the end? These are questions I asked myself.

And then I look at my children and know my children deserve to have a mother and father in the home, not part-time parents as what would happen if we divorced. And I remember what a wonderful person my wife was (and what a wonderful person she could be once she leaves the fog). And I remember the vows I made to her before God in our wedding. I know that as a Christian husband my job is to love her unconditionally. And finally, I am not the type of person to give up when the going gets tough.

Will she or I ever be the same after this? No of course not. And that is not a bad thing, because if we were the same we would probably eventually end up in the same place.

This is a rollercoaster ride - some days I feel I'm making progress (and she will do little things that tell me she is thinking of me). And some days I feel like I am taking 5 steps backwards.

I realize that through all this, I have become a better person, husband and father. And I realize that through all the work, I still may end up a single dad. That's a tough pill to swallow. But, nothing in life is easy - the best things in life require hard work, dedication and patience. That's what I'm trying my best to do now.

In short, I never want to wake up a single dad and think that I gave up too soon. I want the type of marriage people here talk about all the time; a stronger, more fulfilling, happier marriage after going through all this. And I'm willing to fight for it.

Thanks for the clarification. No, it doesn't change anything I have said. Most of these never go to divorce.

That being said, most men are under the impression that they will lose their homes and primary custody because the woman has an advantage and because of this they lose everything. Yet, we have many men here who fought the divorce and retained the home and primary custody. All they had to do was find an attorney who was willing to fight for them. When men don't fight, they end up empty handed and put out of their homes.

Amen
JM, I've been reading your thread with great interest (also Floridapad's); there are some similarities with my situation ("EA story"). I have nothing to offer in the way of advice as I'm just getting familiar with the MB concepts.

I only wanted to weigh in with some encouragement and to thank you for the same. Reading about others going through some of the same types of struggles is helping me keep sane. [I've commented in my thread about how much influence is out there for the WS to "do what makes you happy" and "life is too short for....," books, friends, movies, tv shows. Everything seems to glamorize extramarital activity. It's sad]

Anyway, keep up the battle my friend. I get a good feeling that you are in it for the right reasons (3, to start with) and I wish you the best. I'm finding it's a day to day rollercoaster, sometimes hour to hour. I think consistency is the key; make changes and stay consistent. Habits beget behaviors, behaviors beget character. FWIW to you, keeping that in the back of my mind has helped me to eliminate some pretty severe LB's in the last couple of months; just one small step in an effort to save our M, but I sure feel better about my behavior around my kids (no AO's, DJ's).

I was watching t.v. this evening and a in-trouble lawyer said "my dad used to say, 'If you ever get a chance to do a second show, make sure you don't repeat the first show'."

Optimism

JM,

You asked if you should send her a letter telling her how you feel and how you want to save and change the marriage for the better. I know that Jennifer Dr. Harley's daughter and a PhD. in her own right, often suggests such a letter.

I think it would be an excellent idea for you to express your feelings to her. Just be careful to not try and educate her.

I would also suggest that she is still in withdrawal, and that she may well be very depressed. Given her suicide episode, I would suggest you encourage her to have a physical and see a mental health specialist. She sounds like she needs your help and your love.

Since you are in plan A, those are good things to give her now.

So communicate your feelings to her via a letter. Tell her of your hopes and your dreams, what prompted you to change your approach to being a husband and father. Your love of your children and her.

I think these things will offer her hope and plant seeds of doubt about divorce being the correct approach to a better life for her.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL

I've found that reading other people's stories helps immensely in my own situation as well. We're not alone!

My WS has a knack for finding the types of books and friends who live by the rule "do whatever makes you happy". And I find it sickening...


Sounds like we're on the same rollercoaster because I feel those ups and downs daily, and hourly too. I have a good group of friends and family who offer support when I need it (which I will never be able to repay).

Like you, I look at my kids and that helps refocus on what is most important and avoid LB's.

I still do not know where this is headed for me. The divorce is still going forward, but there is still hope. It's not over until the fat lady sings. In the meantime I continue to treat her with respect, be the best husband I can be (filling her EA as much as she will let me), and be the best father I can be. Hopefully, before it's too late she will see staying married and working through the problems will be better than the cut-and-run of a divorce.

Besides, what does it show your children about marriage and commitment, when mom and dad give up and cut and run when things are bad? What a horrible message to send to a child.

Staying optimistic!

I think your suggestion was in response to a question I had about how to handle our anniversary.

In fact, here's what I did. I bought her a bouquet of flowers (not roses - nothing to forward or pushy - just a nice bouquet to let her know I was thinking of her). And I spend 3 hours hand-writing her a letter expressing my feelings. I was very careful not to put any pressure on her in the letter and to not try to educate her on what she is doing. It was just from my heart, talking about why I decided to make the changes I made, how I wanted to be a better husband and father, my hopes, dreams and goals (all of which included her).

I put the flowers and the letter on the dining table and went to bed (I thought it would be awkward to hand it to her personally). She always gets up before me so she would see it first.

Anyway, when I got up there was a note on my desk that said this:

"Thank you for the flowers, they're beautiful. All that you said in your letter I already know because you've told me it before. I can tell you've really changed and I'm happy for you."

When she saw me in the morning she immediately came up to me and thanked me again for the beautiful flowers.

That is all that was said and done on our anniversary day. She was noticeably happier that day, I am certain it was because of what I did.

However, her divorce plans are still moving forward, attorneys are involved, and we have had some pretty heated discussions since then. Mostly involving financial issues related to the divorce.

It's very difficult going through this divorce process, to know the difference between standing up for myself and our children, and being disrespectful to her and ultimately ruining any chance of reconciliation.

We are still cordial toward each other, we do family things together, she does things for me that require consideration and thought, and I to the same for her. So it is quite confusing trying to understand why she thinks our marriage has zero chance when obviously she recognizes my changes and goes out of her way to do thoughtful things for me.

Thanks for your help JL!