Hi everyone,

After reading your posts I feel a bit silly but desperately need advice. I've lived with my partner for year and a half been together for 2. Things were rocky in the summer then he started being distant. I constantly asked him what was up but he just said nothing. Eventually, I checked his phone to find texts from a girl at work. Many of the sent ones were deleted. The worst of it is, he's never mentionned this girl to me or that they were friends. But he is like this - keeps everything to himself. His mum says he's always been the same. The texts were about 16 a month for July and August so not too many, but some were at night at 10pm? All the texts that were there, were about nothing. Mainly the lottery cindicate they have at work and about their boss who they hate. Also, she text him general stuff she was up to and vice versa. They were also weekday nights when we were together? I confronted him and all he was bothered about was that I had checked his phone? He was furious and adamant that absolutely nothing was going on, he hadn't done anything etc. He refused to answer anything about her whatsoever so I threw him out. That night, he spoke to his mother to explain and said he was on his way to stay with her for the night, 2 hours away. He then called this girl for an hour? He said it was to tell her I might call her and to explain why he wouldn't be at work the following day. I wouldn't let him back the next night either. I checked his email as he'd left his computer on, and he'd sent her an email at work for a shoe website saying I know how much you love your shoes...? How thoughtful.
Since then it's been terrible. He says there's nothing going on. That they are just work colleagues. That I am mad, deranged etc. He said he won't text her again after work but has since sent her another text about the lottery claiming she's asked if they'd won but both texts are deleted. He says I'm being rediculous.
He says we have a perfect relationship. That he loves me so much and that why would he risk losing me for anyone?
I just cannot move on here, as he has deleted texts but says he hasn't, he has spoken to her the night I threw him out but won't tell me what was really said and refuses to talk about it without losing his temper. He says I am living in the past and need to move on but I just can't? He says he isn't attracted to her and if I saw her I'd understand why. I feel as though he is actually attracted to her and it's just because I've caught it very early that nothing has happened here? He's adamant that he wants to go to his xmas do but it's not with partners and I'm out of my mind about this? I feel like I should end the relationship now? Please please advise me as it would be horrendous to lose him if it was totally innocent?

I'm sorry you are here. He sounds like a typical wayward to me.

You guys aren't married yet? Do you have any children together?

As you are only two years into your relationship, and he is already having an affair, I'd think long and hard if I really want to stay with him. Do you want to invest more into this relationship than you already have?

It is an affair, period. He is gaslighting you. He is fogged.

Hi,

I'm shocked at your response as I'm wanting to believe him so much. No we don't have kids but I have 2 from my previous marriage and they love him. 2 years in their lives to them is a lot. They're 15 and 13. I'm gutted. x

How did your previous M end?

Hi,

I was married for 19 years to a lovely man. But we had no sex life. After years of trying everything(thought he was gay, having affairs etc. but don't think it was any of these) it reduced all intimacy between us. By the time he realised I was on the verge of leaving, he tried his best but I didn't feel the same towards him. I did eventually end up having an affair myself and left him during this time. This affair ended shortly afterwards as nothing good can be built out of hurting people. Has this left me with a deep distrust of others? Or maybe its payback time for me?

I don't know that you have enough info to be sure that the coworker and your SO are involved in anything other than loose boundaries. However, they ARE demonstrating loose boundaries and independent behavior that could pose a threat to your relationship. At minimum, that is disrespectful to you, and as such needs to end. No coworker is equal in value to a relationship. Your SO should not have a problem ending this unacceptable friendship.

Amimad,

I did eventually end up having an affair myself and left him during this time.

Did you tell your current partner about this or were you too ashamed. I would almost say that if you did not then you started off this third relationship dishonestly and it is payback.

If you told him he may feel his commitment to you need only be as true as your commitment to your H of 19 years.

That's the problem with infidelity either way you lose.

NJ

google flexispy pro.

When a guy is carrying on a secretive relationship with another woman, after business hours, on a long-term basis, that's pretty much a dead giveaway that there's an emotional affair going on; and an emotional affair is an affair nonetheless. It means he's going outside of his relationship with you to have some of his serious emotional needs met.

Right on, GloveOil. He needs to end it now. She needs to be ready to do some snooping, because I suspect he will not be happy about ending it and will go underground.

Hi all,

I've asked him tonight to never text her again. He has refused on principal as he says this is rediculous as he has done absolutely nothing wrong. That if there was even the remotest guilt of anything at all he would agree but I need to deal with my own issues here. Had his mother on the phone today explaining that he would never ever be dishonest and has never hurt anyone in his life. That if he didn't want to be with me then he wouldn't be. In answer to the earlier question, I haven't told my partner of my infidelity in my marriage as you quite rightly said, I am too ashamed.
We've agreed that the relationship cannot go on as neither he nor I are willing to back down on this issue. It's horrendous! Thanks so much for all your advice its really appreciated.

The fact that he is apparently fully prepared to give up your R rather than stop contact with that OW should tell you VOLUMES about the the TRUE nature of his relationship with that OW.

Exactly. My XWH insisted for years that those women meant "nothing" to him. But when he was finally forced to choose between his family and "nothing", he couldn't file for divorce fast enough. He destroyed our family over "nothing".
Mulan

I agree with you all. I just cannot believe it. How can this be happening? Reading other posts it seems he was not being fulfilled in our relationship. How do I see where I went wrong?

That's something that he would need to share with you, but it sounds like he is terribly foggy right now. If he is unwilling "on principle" to end the texting, there is definitely something going on. Your wishes should come before any "just a friend" co-worker.

Your first mistake was moving in with him after six months. Now you either need to make him end his relationship with his coworker, or you should end the relationship yourself. There is no use dragging yourself through this if he won't stop contact and you aren't married. My prognosis for this relationship is not good.

Secondly, you need to revisit your previous marriage and evaluate why that relationship went south and what you did wrong so you can learn for future relationships. Your actions in your previous marriage were inexcusable and you seemed to just justify them by saying you had already moved on by the time your husband wanted to save your marriage, but you just "happened" to be having an affair at that time as well. It's a classic exit affair. I would venture to guess that you would still be married if that affair hadn't occurred (of course you will deny that and blame your husband). Why didn't your husband want to be intimate with you. What needs of his weren't you meeting that made him withdraw? I really think you should read up on this site and figure out what a real committed relationship should be like because you haven't seemed to have a functional one up to this point. Personally, I think you should have tried to work things out with your husband. Maybe he just had ED and was ashamed of it.

He's not married, so he is allowed to do what he wants. If she doesn't like it, she can leave. He's telling her how it's going to be, so she can either accept it or move on.

Sorry but what does ED mean? I had since the first year of my marriage tried everything possible to sort out our sexual relationship problems. I cried myself to sleep for yesrs. I felt grotesque and totally unloved. We had sex about once ayear and he was always drunk when it happened. My mistake was us not seeking professional councelling. There is absolutely no excuse for what I did but without this sort of intimacy, I no longer felt close to him in any respect. And the guilt was horrendous. You're right that it is possible that I wasn't fulfilling my husbands needs so he withdrew from me. Why then after 19 years didn't he ever once try to talk to me about this? He has told me that he is the same with his new partner and avoids sex where possible? As for this relationship, I need to look at what on earth has happened as I THOUGHT it was wonderful.

ED= Erectile Dysfunction.

:::flipping back thru posts:::ahhhh, not married!? How'd I miss it. Yup, you're right. He's a free agent.

Amimad,

How do I see where I went wrong?

If you did not tell him about your affair, then you are hiding a major fact, one that you think of every day. Perhaps if you are radically honest with him, he will be radically honest with you.

My guess is that the story you told him of how, why etc you got divorced is not true.

NJ

So it's right to be deceitful just because you're not married? Why when this woman is single, doesn't he just go then?

I have necer ever told my partner why my marriage ended in divorce. He has never ever asked me and says he doesn't want to know. So I haven't lied to him. But you're right in thinking that I would find this very difficult admitting to anyone.

Amimad,

I understand it is only a lie by omission, however I would wonder if there is something about you which causes your partners to feel uneasy about telling you how they feel. I mean that many years with no diagnosis of the issues behind once a year sex, is a major communications break down.

NJ

Two women are better than one.

He's made it painfully clear how it's going to be. Either you accept it (I wouldn't) or leave. That's his stance right now. Now you may be able to call his bluff, but he may just let you leave. Either way, he has made no commitment to you, so don't act surprised that he is pursuing other women. Have you ever talked about marriage with your BF? If he doesn't want to get married, he's probably content with you being the housewife to take care of domestic duties while he is free to pursue other women. Afterall, it's okay, he's not married. He can easily walk away from this relationship when he wants to.

In March of this year, I made a similar demand of my wife. To stop calling and texting another man. I told her it was wrong when in a steadfast relationship to have such a close relationship with another man.

She said they had done nothing wrong and were doing nothing wrong and there was no reason to stop.

The evidence is in my signature. This almost destroyed my marriage, and I frequently thought of getting the gun out of the closet to kill myself to escape the pain of her infidelity.

Act now before it is too late. Plan A, Plan B, whatever, form a plan and follow it.

What he is doing is wrong. Cheating is wrong, and deceit is wrong.

In addition to the wrong things he is doing right now, he has shown that he does not value you enough to marry you. Since he has not made that kind of commitment to you, the tools on this website will be of limited value to you in saving your relationship. They are designed to restore marriages, and simply don't work as well in relationships with a lesser commitment.

That doesn't mean you should leave here, though. There is plenty here of value for you in your own recovery. Revisiting your past will be invaluable in healing you for a better future.

You did very well to have your BF leave when he wouldn't stop communicating with his OW. You are not wrong, and not crazy, to be bothered that he would be having that level of intimacy with another woman, when you are supposed to be in an exclusive relationship. As the others have said, his refusal to give her up is very telling. If she were unimportant to him, he would have no hesitation in choosing you over her. You're right on target with your instincts here.

Hope you stick around, even if this wasn't what you were hoping to hear.

Thank you all so much for your comments. I've ordered all 3 books and am hoping they will help me understand where I am going wrong? You're right that it could be me who is not fulfilling my partners emotional needs so I need to look at this long and hard? Last night I caved in and said I didn't want us to split up over this issue. He is still not willing to back down on the replying to simple texts if she texts him as he sees it as no different to anyone of his friends texting him, regardless of my feelings. He says had there been anything whatsoever between them, he'd not only agree with me but leave his job immediately and avoid all contact but he thinks to not reply to her should she text him is rude and I'm asking him to be someone he's not? The fact that he has text her at those times of night and weekends is still totally unacceptable to me. He says he understands 100% how I feel but that he was just being naive. I know he should agre to stop completey, but maybe he is naive and is innicent of anything untoward at all? Afterall, it is me who is the one who was deceitful and not him? Maybe because of my past, I fully understand how these things happen, the risk we take when in this position and how things develop that destroys lives? Maybe because he has never ever been unfaithful to anyone before he's just not aware? I love him so much I want to believe him. Maybe if I can highlight his emotional needs I can save us?

In response to Jim, he has never wanted to marry before but when we got together, he did ask me several times to marry him. However, I don't think I could ever marry again as I meant my marriage vows when I took them. It was such an important thing for me to do and I failed. I do believe marriage is for life and I have 2 wonderful children from mine. I don't believe I could marry anyone else.

In response to Neak, I will definately be reviewing my past. I am seeing things in a totally different light since reading your comments. I just hope I can save this relationship before it's too late.

No no no, amimad! Do NOT allow your BF to manipulate you into backing away from what is clearly an EA, at least! Read what you wrote. Are you really going to take ownership of your BFs issue? Are you really going to sit back on your hands and say that it's fine for him to take away from YOUR times together during nights and weekends to converse on the sly with another woman?? Are you really okay with letting him off the hook because he's a poor little naive thing who can't help being buds with another woman?? Whether or not you are deceitful, honest, dishonest doesn't apply to whether or not he is behaving inappropriately. Those are two separate issues! Concentrating on his emotional needs is separate, as well.
Is your BF willing to show you every text they send/receive? Is he willing to have this OW come to dinner with the two of you? Is he willing to meet the OWs SO if she has one, so that the four of you can ALL be such good friends? I doubt it.
Do not let his manipulation weaken your resolve to keep your relationship together.

This is a mistake.

The only chance I see for your R to succeed, (and in the long run I believe you would be much better off if you walked away right now), would be if:

!) He agreed to stop all communication with this OW
2) He came clean with you on his level of attachment to her
3) He changed jobs to maintain NC
4) He shared all passwords with you and implemented all other precautions
5) He explored with you his reasons for this EA or PA so it wouldn't happen again
6) You both were willing to learn how to identify and meet each other's EN's, ideally within a marriage

Notice there is only one item on that list involving you.

What you have done is let him back with no conditions, and no reason whatsoever to change behavior that is painful to you. Well, it SHOULD be painful when someone you love is sneaking around on you, and choosing another woman over you. You are not wrong to feel pain, or to expect different behavior from a man who is supposed to be exclusively with you.

His actions make it clear to you that he is not willing to be exclusive, and your actions make it clear to him that this is ok with you.

By the time you find proof they are having sex, it will have already been going on and you will already be exposed to all kinds of scary stuff.

Also consider what you are teaching your children, that it's ok for a man to treat a woman like this.

Your best hope if you do want to save this, and have it being a relationship worth having, is to stick to your boundaries. Caving in may keep you from being lonely for a little while longer, but the relationship is just a sham. You're worth a lot more than that.

I'm so glad you're here.

Hi,

Reading your conditions I felt a real sinking in my stomach. I already know none of these conditions would be agreed to as he is total denial that anything has gone on or is going on and that he has done anything wrong.

The biggest problem is he just refuses to discuss anything to do with her whatsoever. If I try to discuss it, he literally flies into a rage. Its horrendous. I interpret this as guilt as there's no other explination.

I was wrong to cave in. I have asked him again tonight to stop all communication with her. Again, he flew into a rage. I then asked if I could meet her and he screamed No No No!! There's nothing to find because nothing has happened.

He then threw his mobile phone on the floor breaking it (this is the second one he's done this with in a week!). I said that this request should be so easy to fulfill. Simple. By his actions, he is showing me this woman means a lot to him. I suspect it his him who has been leading all of the texts and has been trying to persue her as from the messages I saw most were replies from her. Many sent messages are missing.

She is single and lives on her own with no children. I only know this from searching facebook and my space. There are no pictures of her though.

I also suspect, she doesn't actually reciprocate his feelings? Otherwise why not just be together?

I think his rage is at the fact I've intervened just as he was trying to win her over. I think he's furious with me because of this?

Either way, I have told him its over (again). That I deserve far more respect than he has shown me. He says he'll move back to his mothers 200 miles away and leave his job. The way I'm feeling, it can't come soon enough. However, I know this is going to be soo difficult for me and I MUST keep my resolve.

He mustn't of been happy with me for a while? I feel this is totally the end.

I need to look at my marriage break up. When we split, I contemplated suicide so may times. I just couldn't come to terms with my marriage failure and had councelling for 6 months. I need to understand what I'm doing wrong?

I have bought the marital home from my husband as we couldn't sell it and he had moved in with another woman. Since moving in 6 months ago, I have been wracked with guilt beyond belief. Reliving every past memory and all the wrong I did to my ex. I have prayed every night for forgiveness. I have apologised to my ex and asked for his forgiveness. I wonder if in this turmoil, I have neglected my partner and not given him what he needs?

You're absolutely correct. He knows he is guilty, but wants to make it all your fault.

Good for you for breaking up - very hard to do, but I can assure you this will be best in the long run. Whatever may happen between the two of you over time, staying with him while he is clearly after someone else will lead only to more heartbreak for you.

What you did to your BH was very wrong, however that in no way means you deserve to be treated badly by someone else. Your BF's bad treatment of you may have helped open your eyes to what your BH went through, but that in no way excuses your BF for his piggish actions.

You do need to see the scope of the pain you caused in your M, and I think you're beginning to do that, just don't use it to beat up on yourself. Repentance means admitting and turning away from your sins with sorrow for what you did, and joy for what and who you're becoming.

If you read the stories on here, many of the folks on this site are FWW's, who did the same thing you did, and lived to become beautiful people again. Some saved their M's and some did not, but most importantly they recovered themselves.

Let yourself have that experience. You've made a good start already.

Hi Neak,

Thanks so much for your post. I have read your epic experience (not right to the very end as I'm supposed to be working!). I am in total awe at your absolute strength and determination. You have fought so hard its beyond belief. It puts my experience into the shade.

I have lost a stone and a half in 2 months over this. He doesn't seem remotely concerned at all about this or that I can't sleep. I am still waiting for the books to arrive but gather he is in a fog? Don't know what this means at the moment?

I have a job interview in Scotland tomorrow 3 and a half hour drive away. the interview is expected to last 4 hours with the drive home. He was taking the day off work to help with the driving. Can't think straight let alone prepare for this?

Last Thursday, I tried to meet him for lunch. He fobbed me off saying he had to fix his bosses car and was sweating and fed up with it. When he came home, he was a little bit grubby and went straight in the shower. I found that his underwear was stained. This was horrendous for me. The only explination is we had sex the night before and he'd used dirty underwear the next day, although I know he never does this. I now fear there is more going on and that Thursdays are the day. So, today I'm in pieces.

I will try to stick absolutely to my plan. Although this will be hard as I've said its over a few times and caved in so it'll take him a while to believe it this time.

Also, as we're only 2 years into the relationship I fear there's not enough history for him to want to work things out. Its the total denial of everything I don't get and the total detachment from how it is maikng me?

Thank you again. I do believe god brought me to this site too. Your comment that you thought the same made me break down in floods of tears. I am being taught a lesson somehow. I'm not sure what yet but my only strength is that I know god is here for me and I have new friends on this brilliant site.

I think you're an amazing woman and thankfull that you spend time answering problems like mine, with so much going on in your own life.

God Bless you x

Why on earth would you still want to work it out? Your not married. Leave this abuser. Do you have codependency issues? Is this the same reason you didn't leave your first husband until you had another man lined up? The solution to this situation is clear. He's not going to be faithful. And if you don't leave him, he has no reason ever to be faithful. If for some reason you still might want to work it out, at least leave him now and make him earn you back. Don't be afraid to lose this guy. He's not worth it.

And, you are going to have to explain to most folks here what a stone is. Isn't it like 14 lbs?

Hi Jim,

I don't have codependency issues. I just don't want another failed relationship. The house is mine and he contributes towards it, so he's the one who has to leave. I have told him and he says he will. I slept in my daughters room last night as they're at their dad's for a few days so will have to revert to the sofa when they come back. At present he's reading upstairs and seems to be ignoring the situation. And yes, a stone is 14lbs..

He is using anger to manipulate you. If he gets angry, you will back down and stop that line of questioning. Its a great way to avoid talking about issues you don't want to talk about.
And it appears to be working for him.

I really suggest that you get an item called a "SIM CARD READER".
With it, you can go back months and months to read deleted text messages (both sent and received). Then you will know the true nature of their relationship.

Once you are better prepared, you will know what to do.

Hi amimad,

Iim sorry for what you are going through.

You must be in England. I'm in London.

So, does allowing him to fool around on you as long as you stay in the same house together count as a failed relationship? I'm telling you how to fix it, or determine if it will never be fixed. You tell him to stop. Either he stops, or you kick him out. If you kick him out, either he gives up OW and begs to come back, or he continues on with OW and you are better off without him. Doing nothing isn't going to keep your relationship from failing, it is going to contribute to it.

He has agreed to no contact with this woman at all, and to let me have his next phone bill. We are also going for councelling - as soon as we can get a vacant place. Hate him at the moment......

amimad, I apologize if you were taken aback by my post. I wanted to help you face the reality of your situation, but I realize my response may have been too harsh.

Did he agree to all of the above conditions? Did he agree to leave his job? Did he give you all of his id's and passwords for all of his email/text/etc accounts? It's important you set the bar high, and stick to it, or he will continue to try to walk all over you.

Watch his actions. He should be 100% transparent with you and not be trying to sneak around at all.

Hi all,

No, he has not agreed to any of the above other than showing me his phone bill. We are going to our first councelling session tonight - I'm hoping this will start to clear up this mess? He feels he has done absolutely nothing wrong at all and yes, he is definitely using anger to avoid any discussion. I'll let you know how tonight goes for us....x

animad, please do not rely on counseling too much to help you with this. This is because:

1) Most "marriage" counselors fail to understand, or don't want to understand, the dynamics of adultery. They largely ignore it and want to focus on "communication" or some other such rubbish. You end up dancing around the real issue while the affair goes on full-blown.

This is exactly like trying to deal with an alcoholic who is still drinking, and then pretending the alcohol has nothing to do with the problems in the relationship.

2) Most WS are quite happy to go to counseling. Why? See #1 above. With their cheating largely ignored and swept under the rug, they will later say that they "tried" but gee, the counseling just didn't work. Please be prepared for this.

Most "marriage counselors" end up being divorce counselors instead. Beware, beware, beware of any counselor who ignores that fact that one spouse is cheating, or who recommends separation. They will only make things far worse.
Mulan


2)

Hi,
What a revelation. This councelor focussed entirely on his actions and the effect they were having on our relationship. She focused on the fact that he was developing an emotional attachment to another woman and that he had to acknowledge this fact?

I must say, it wasn't what I was expecting as most councelors don't pass opinions, but she let him have it big style! The down side of this, is he feels persecuted and that we were ganging up on him. He is still in total denial that e has done anything wrong. Or in the fog.

She asked that we don't discuss or raise the issues until we go back. I agreed. He said he'll never ever go back. What a surprise. He then took himself to bed and closed off from me. He then didn't sleep a wink. At 2am I got him back to bed and he finally snuggled up to me (his hate had subsided slightly obviously). He said he'd think about going back again with me.

Today is Thursday - the day to watch. He said he's got a big job on today as he needs to fix the clutch on his car(he won't be able to answer his phone). Do I drive to his work place to see if his car is there/not there? No. I've called him and he's not answered his phone, as expected. I've asked him to call me back. How long will this take I wonder?

I'm away with work tonighjt and he was upset that I was planning on leaving before he gats back. I said I'd wait then. Pity I won't be here to check his underwear...

As always, feel physically sick to the stomach. When I get the strength, I will probably decide to end this relationship. But feel too weak to, or have insufficient evidence just now...

Sounds like a good counselor. He needs to continue going with you if he wants to work on the relationship. He's either in denial or he KNOWS but won't admit it.

How did the weekend go? How are you doing?

Hi NotSure2,

We've been to hell and back really. Still waiting for an appointment for on going counceling....

We swing from being really really great together, then bammm...something sets me off and I sink into psycho lady again!

I haven't kept my side of the bargain to keep my mouth shut about this other woman and his actions. Every day a new idea pops into my head, something I haven't checked, something I need to check again, something new to check? I just keep digging and digging. He has threatenned to leave me several times, I've told him that's good, at least I'll be able to eat again!!

He spent a night at his parents (for refuge) last week and I missed him and hated him at the same time..

He has let me see his recent phone bill - all totally clear. Rather than put my mind at rest, I have the new thought that he now has another phone? Or a new email address? I am slowly becoming deranged!!

After a great weekend together (well, had a splurt on Saturday where I accused him of owning another phone) I am determined to keep my mouth shut till we get help.....Here's hoping.

What I am amazed at, is how this has made me - I think it's that I've intercepted something before it started. I'm not sure if he even realised it himself, but it's the fact that he's suceptable to the attention of another woman, in a young relationship.

It has made me think more and more (I was already too) about my marriage, the things we went through together and the absolutely glaringly obvious things that lead to us splitting up. The fact that my husband tried so hard to keep us together in the end, makes me wonder whether this guy is worth the effort?

But onwards and upwards. I feel a lot stronger in myself at times now, still have my low times but not every waking second.. Thanks for asking!

x

Helpful tip: Instead of questioning your wayward spouse right then and there, write down what your question is about the relationship and negotiate a time together to tackle the list.

This technique works really well for many, and is recommended by Dr. Harley for couples trying to avoid Love Busters while recovering their marriage. I use it and we sit down each Sunday night to discuss ongoing issues; it helps a lot. Be sure to observe the rules for successful negotiation while going through it, and avoid Love Busters yourself while listening to his explanations.