Marriage Builders
Hello everyone,

I'm looking for tips from all sides on how to help a BS through D-day. Actually, as my EA was ongoing through Oct/Nov, we've been struggling for a few weeks now, but my BH seems like he's back in the place he was when he first discovered my affair (found emails/chats - I lied my foggy butt off prior to him finding those).

We've gone up and down and up and down over the past year (NC since a few days before D-day, just took the fog awhile to depart), but I'm finally (I think!) fog-free. A month ago when I asked him how we were doing and if I was doing everything he needed he said we were ok. Then the other day he told me he doesn't think he can do this anymore, that I haven't done anything to help in heal in the past year and he's giving me 3 months to show him through my actions that I can do the heavy lifting and repair him.

Is this just the intensity of D-day or what?!!! I love my husband, my children need their Papa and I have made significant changes in the past year. I've worked to meet his ENs, but, at least during this time period, he doesn't seem to recall any of that. So, I guess my question is does it typically get intensely painful and harder to deal with around d-day for the BH and what can I do to ease the pain?
Thanks for your input!
What have you done to change yourself?
Becoming transparent, avoiding LBs, meeting his ENs enthusiastically because it makes him feel good (as opposed to feeling like i 'have' to and breeding resentment). I admit, it's been a struggle for me because there were (still are some) so many issues prior to the EA that had to be dropped. For too long I was angry about that, which of course impeded our progress, especially his trust in me. I became transparent easily enough, but he still doesn't trust that what I've told him is the whole truth, he still asks me once in a while if I have a lover (for 11 out of 12 months since d-day I've been pregnant and then caring for a newborn in addition to our 2 other young children - I'm not trying to be funny here, but who the hell in my position would have the time or energy to cheat?!)

I've worked internally to understand how I let the EA come to be - having weak boundaries, not keeping our union safegaurded (my EA was care of FaceBook with an ex from college). I've read a dozen books (including SAA, HNHN and LBs) which have helped my views of marriage mature into a real-world as opposed to Hollywood mentality.

Because I need to sleep now, I'll digress and ask again - are the memories and associated memories of the affair dramatically heightened at this point in the recovery or have I really, truly completely failed my husband?
It is actually usual to have setback around 6 months and around 1 year after D-Day in recovery. The ups and downs can last even in best cases not less than two years.

It is 6 months after last D-Day for me. But the affair itself does not haunt me much anymore but continuous doubts whether we are in real recovery or not. In spite that my W follows MB now and even posts here.

Does your husband know about MB or does he write here? Sometimes discussing about the situation and comparing yourself to others helps. And knowing that you are not alone.
Originally Posted by MrsV
Becoming transparent, avoiding LBs, meeting his ENs enthusiastically because it makes him feel good (as opposed to feeling like i 'have' to and breeding resentment). I admit, it's been a struggle for me because there were (still are some) so many issues prior to the EA that had to be dropped. For too long I was angry about that, which of course impeded our progress, especially his trust in me. I became transparent easily enough, but he still doesn't trust that what I've told him is the whole truth, he still asks me once in a while if I have a lover (for 11 out of 12 months since d-day I've been pregnant and then caring for a newborn in addition to our 2 other young children - I'm not trying to be funny here, but who the hell in my position would have the time or energy to cheat?!)

I've worked internally to understand how I let the EA come to be - having weak boundaries, not keeping our union safegaurded (my EA was care of FaceBook with an ex from college). I've read a dozen books (including SAA, HNHN and LBs) which have helped my views of marriage mature into a real-world as opposed to Hollywood mentality.

Because I need to sleep now, I'll digress and ask again - are the memories and associated memories of the affair dramatically heightened at this point in the recovery or have I really, truly completely failed my husband?

It's not unusual for continued thoughts to haunt a BS for awhile, especially if he has unanswered questions and feels that the climate isn't right in which to ask them. Do you spend at least 15 hours of 'alone-time' together each week? Have you determined what each of your emotional needs are and are actually seeking to fill them? You say you've worked 'internally' to answer the whys of your A - does he know you're doing this work? Share that with him.
Communicating your thoughts and feelings about the R process is extrememly important IMO. I can't tell you how important it is for my FWH to tell me, without my asking, how sorry he still is, how terrible his actions were, and where he is emotionally right now.
Your BS may feel all alone in his R - other than with you, of course. The damage caused by affairs are the taboo thing not talked about in this society. I'm convinced that, if more people knew just how horrible the fall-out from an affair is, they would NEVER cross that line. That taboo leaves a lot of BS feeling like they're on an island. Can he come on here and read some of our posts in order to see that what he is feeling is part of his "new normal"?
Thanks, recon6mo.
He does know about this site. I've encouraged him to read or write, but he's not interested. He's still so devastated that we need a site like this and he never shares personal pain, not even with faceless strangers.

We read HNHR together and LBs seperately.

Do your doubts stem from your wife's actions/inactions? I'm trying to get a better understanding of what my BH is feeling.

I'd appreciate input from others as well.
His questions have been answered, he just continues to question the answers. He certainly feels alone in his recovery, even from me. It took me many months to stop having emotional breakdowns every time we talked about the A and longer to stop feeling like we should get right to work on the marriage instead of stopping to allow him to heal first.
I do actively try to meet his needs. The most important for him is domestic support. Turning his home into a haven. I've made huge strides in this area, finally realizing how important it is to him after years of wishing he'd just relax a little! I further realize that slacking off, even for a day, causes a huge set-back in his mood. Having two preschoolers and a newborn would justify a mess now and then for most people, but not him. That's ok with me, it's just taken me (for him) way too long to 'get' that.
Originally Posted by MrsV
His questions have been answered, he just continues to question the answers. He certainly feels alone in his recovery, even from me.

Has he ever spoken to anyone about the A? And I'm not just talking about professional counseling here, but family, friends, etc.. Anyone with whom he shares a close relationship.

I do know that a big hindrance to my recovery is I really can't speak to anyone other than my FWW (well, 'cept everyone here, of course :)) about what I've gone through.
MrsV

Your BH needs to come here. Being your kids are young why not leave the computer on with the MB site when you leave it idle. This may temp your BH to read on his own.

Or share stories here with BH that may get him to start.

Suggest read without joining and posting.

Try for a MB weekend.

Try counseling with the Harley's on your own for strategies to help BH.
No, he's never spoken to anyone and only had a few sessions with a counselor early on. He is very private and talks to no one. I will continue to encourage him to at least read here.

I wish we could afford the time (not possible with NB and nursing) and money for a MB weekend. Does anyone know if they'll offer payment plans for the counseling or do you pay bulk up-front? I emailed once to ask and no one ever answered. We could manage payments, but not a lump sum as finances are beyond tight these days and that's also adding a huge amount of stress.
Dear MrsV,

My doubts do not stem from my wifes behaviour in the present. To be honest, after spending about a year here, my wife seems to be a an angel if I compare her to many WSs described here.

But since my wife has been like this only about a half of a year I cannot drop my defences just like that - thus the doubts.

What I am trying to say is that your H feelings are very common and the recovery is not complete when you are sorry, it will start from that and can take many years.

If it is possible, I would like to say to your husband that here he can find many many male BSs who share the same experience.

And say that maybe you cannot help him but you feel that people here can.

The "site like this" is a life saviour for me.
Something you said really triggered me...

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but who the hell in my position would have the time or energy to cheat?!

My FWH would say something like that to me (he would say..."who would have me?") Which I understood to me, he would cheat if given the right circumstances...

So are you asking for what YOU want? Are you truly happy, or just going through the motions. Are you truly fulfilling your BH TOP EN's? I would be willing to bet that affection is right up there, and appreciation. Yes, Domestic Support may be important, but is it the most important?

StillhereMakingit - I did not by any measure mean I would cheat under the right (always wrong) circumstances. I have put safegaurds in place and am steering far clear of any potential slippery slopes! My BH is usually a very logical man. There's no way for him to KNOW exactly what I do with all of my time since he's at work, but logically, with 3 under the age of 4 there is no time for anything (I read this site while nursing the baby)!

I'm not truly happy, but I truly want to get there with my BH. My ENs are mostly by the wayside these days, but I am not "just going through the motions". There was certainly a long period of time when I was doing that and with bitterness. Domestic support is truly his number 1. Appreciation - yes, Affection - for him... he'd usually say not so much, but SF is. He desperately needs affection right now and I struggle knowing how to show it when he's miserable and hating me. He recoils from my touch, yet gets angry if I stop trying to reach out to him physically. It goes through phases and with this being the time of year it is (a year ago tomorrow I foggily told him I wanted a seperation), it is harder than usual for him (that this pain is 'usual' for him now is... I can't even find an appropriate word).

Again, I will encourage him to use this site... he so needs the help you guys can offer. He's just still so disgusted that we need a site like this. How can a WW ever truly express the depth of the sorrow for what we've done? How can we ever truly make it better for the BS? I fear this stain on his heart will never fade. It's not even a stain... it's like I poured acid on it and burned out huge portions of his most vital organ. No doctor can fix it. How can the woman who did it?
Originally Posted by MrsV
Do your doubts stem from your wife's actions/inactions? I'm trying to get a better understanding of what my BH is feeling.
I'm not recon6mo but I'll tell you my own experience. And from what I've read here I think mine is commonplace.

When the BS learns of an affair, their world is literally turned on its ear. Everything they thought they knew (like the fact that their spouse is the one true haven for them in a harsh world) turns out to be NOT true. As details of the affair dribble out, the BS learns that when they thought you were at your sisters, you were with OM. When they thought you were shopping alone (or with a girlfriend) for an anniversary gift for inlaws, OM was with you. The BS learns that they cannot trust their own judgment. They cannot trust what they think they see, and hear, and know.

So when you "change" and "become accountable", the BS does not trust his ability to interpret what he thinks he is seeing. The BS is in a constant state of fear and turmoil, waiting for the other shoe to fall. His mind is filled with "what if?" questions, second guessing, and doubt.

It is exhausting.
Originally Posted by turtlehead
So when you "change" and "become accountable", the BS does not trust his ability to interpret what he thinks he is seeing.


Thank you for the lightbulb, Turtlehead. I've been so self-absorbed for so long that I never even considered that take on things. Thank you.
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I further realize that slacking off, even for a day, causes a huge set-back in his mood. Having two preschoolers and a newborn would justify a mess now and then for most people, but not him. That's ok with me, it's just taken me (for him) way too long to 'get' that.

Slacking off in domestic support? This really got my attention. I've been married for 32 years and raised four children, and I can attest that a little mess now and then is NORMAL.

My mom only had 3 kids and had "nervous breakdowns" (what they called them back then) because she couldn't keep her house spotless and maintain her "appearance" as the pastor's wife. My dad didn't expect this out of her, she just had unrealistic expectations of herself.

I'm not saying this is a justification for your A, but sheesh, sometimes other's expectations of us (and our own) can get us in a world of trouble. This should be a matter of POJA I would think.
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
sometimes other's expectations of us (and our own) can get us in a world of trouble. This should be a matter of POJA I would think.


But if that's his most important need, then I (now) do enthusiastically agree to meet that need. By doing so I get a calmer, nicer more loving husband. So it's worth it to me. It took me years to get the connection because, like I saw Melodylane use in another thread, it was "mickey mouse" to me. I'm comfotable in a bit of mess. I grew up in a very tidy home, but with so many knick-knacks that it felt a bit messy. My home is relatively minimalistic, so a few things out of place here and there actually make me feel at home. That said, I've come to appreciate the calming energy that comes when everything is neat and tidy and in its place. This is one of the issues that led to my pre-A fog, but now that I understand it is a true NEED for him and not just him being annoyingly anal, I'm happy to meet that need.
So, the evening of the 24th, after the kids are in bed, BH tells me that he's going to make it easy for me and tell me exactly what I need to do to be "on the right track" for our marriage. Since, in his words, I've done "nothing" to repair. What I have done he feels he's had to pull teeth to get me to do it, so those things don't count. So here's the 'deal' he has offered me, so to speak:
To be on the right track, I have to:
1. Get up and ready (shower, etc - no "marge simpson" towel in the hair) in the morning before the kids are up (they're up anywhere between 6 and 7am, the baby sometimes 5:30am).
2. Get the house in order (tidy!!)
3. Plan meals and activities for the kids several days in advance.
Those are what he calls "the basics" or the very least I can do. Next I need to: 4. Repair him, 5. Drive things ( be the leader instead of waiting and following him.

If I can get it right and do these things for the next three months then we might have a chance. If I fail "again" then in three months he's leaving. Leaving me, leaving the kids, no looking back and I'll be solely responsible for my children not having their father in their lives.

I want to get this right for our marriage and our family. But I'm struggling today because I'm very tired of being told how simple everything he's asking for is and how stupid I am for not seeing it and doing it. I have no initiative. I don't want to be selfish anymore, but again I'm struggling to accept that I have to follow his plan to the letter, with no mistakes, or I am subject to hearing again and again how he doesn't understand why I can't "get it", how I shouldn't take everything he says so personally, how he's going to call me a "f-ing b-ch" because that's what I am. What other kind of person would do what I did? How I've been a terrible wife for years and so on and so on. How much abuse must I accept to make up, or 'repair' him from the abuse of the EA?

Please 2x4 me as much as I deserve. Help me get it right this time or know whether I even have a real chance to.
Originally Posted by MrsV
Please 2x4 me as much as I deserve. Help me get it right this time or know whether I even have a real chance to.

MrsV, I detect a lot of anger from your BH. This strikes me as passive-aggressive behavior (and while I'm not a psychologist, I know I can exhibit this type of behavior, too: "If you can spot it, you've got it," is the slogan I've heard).

There seems to be a lot of controlling and dominating being attempted here. Have you talked with BH about this? What about counseling?
Originally Posted by MrsV
I want to get this right for our marriage and our family. But I'm struggling today because I'm very tired of being told how simple everything he's asking for is and how stupid I am for not seeing it and doing it. I have no initiative. I don't want to be selfish anymore, but again I'm struggling to accept that I have to follow his plan to the letter, with no mistakes, or I am subject to hearing again and again how he doesn't understand why I can't "get it", how I shouldn't take everything he says so personally, how he's going to call me a "f-ing b-ch" because that's what I am. What other kind of person would do what I did? How I've been a terrible wife for years and so on and so on. How much abuse must I accept to make up, or 'repair' him from the abuse of the EA?

This plan won't work. It is nothing more than blackmail. It won't work, so tell him no now.

What will work is a MUTUAL plan that makes you both happy. That means meeting each others needs in a way that makes you both happy. It means eliminating lovebusters.

You shouldn't take any abuse at all. Can you afford phone counseling with Steve Harley?
No I can't afford it.
Wow, MrsV. I sense a lot of anger from your BH as well. I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.

I'm not even sure what some of your H's ultimatums have to do with R the M. I mean, in his opinion, will making you get up in the morning and shower and get ready before the baby wakes up at 5:30 a.m. somehow make up for the pain that you caused him from your A? I can understand that maybe one of his top EN's is DS and that he thinks you might be falling short in that area, so maybe he wants you to work on that. But I don't see how that relates to the A in any way. Honestly, as a mom with a 14-month old, I know how difficult those early months were for me. My baby had terrible sleep problems and often wouldn't go down until midnight or later. At 2 months, she rarely slept more than 4 hours in a row. If my H had had the same attitude as yours, I would have literally gone insane from lack of sleep.

It seems to me that your BH is angry and lashing out and attempting to punish you for what you have done. That's counterproductive to the R process. It also sounds as though your H is being emotionally abusive. No one, no matter what they have done, deserves to be called horrible names or told how stupid they are. I think your H may need IC to learn how to deal with his feelings of anger and betrayal.

Does your H know about MB? Has he read any of the Harley's books or anything on the site? Would he be open to counseling with the Harley's? I think you guys need some help. Your BH's anger is preventing you both from moving forward and, until those issues are dealt with, it seems unlikely that your M will R.
p.s. your affair should never be brought up again.

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Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment
entire article here

Recovery may not be complete

Resentment usually appears when an experience of the present reminds us of a painful experience of the past. For example, if a wife had been abandoned by her husband after a fight on a vacation, left to find her way home alone from Jamaica, the resentment of that experience would pop up whenever her husband walks out the door during an argument. Very often, continuing resentment means that whatever it was that caused the painful experience is still lurking in the background. And it jumps out every once in a while when evidence of it's existence surfaces.

The procedure for recovery that I suggest usually eliminates the root causes of infidelity, and that makes it unlikely that present experiences will remind a spouse of experiences associated with an affair. If the only time you feel resentment about a spouse's past affair is when your needs have not been met, when your spouse is engaged in a Love Buster, or when the Policy of Joint Agreement or Policy of Radical Honesty has not been followed, then it's the completion of recovery that's your problem, not resentment.

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse
I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.
My BH is aware of this site, but he tells me he's not interested in reading about the experiences of others. Yes, he's obviously very angry. Yes, we need help, but financially I don't know how we could do it. I asked MBs if they would accept payment plans, but they do not. If I had the money, what would be the best option - just phone calls, or the accountability course? I'm considering asking my parents for a short-term loan just for this, but we already owe them some money.
Are you in the US? Go to www.unitedway.org and see how they can help you.

As for your sitch, why does he think you aren't doing anything?
Originally Posted by MrsV
No I can't afford it.

I'm sorry if this is off-topic or out of bounds, but where do people find the cost of MB counseling? I can't find pricing anywhere on the site.

My reason for asking is that perhaps I can afford it, unless it takes a prince's ransom...
Thanks for the link cat. I'll answer your Q later.
Fred - find the info in the links at the top - courses and counseling center. It's around $200/45m call. There is an accountability program which gives you assignments and you talk with an accountability coach for around $1,000 but you have to pay that fee up-front.
Originally Posted by MrsV
Thanks for the link cat. I'll answer your Q later.
Fred - find the info in the links at the top - courses and counseling center. It's around $200/45m call. There is an accountability program which gives you assignments and you talk with an accountability coach for around $1,000 but you have to pay that fee up-front.

Thank you, MrsV. Today is the day Plan B goes into effect for me. I will keep the MB counseling bookmarked, depending on how and when my WW reacts to it.
Originally Posted by catperson
As for your sitch, why does he think you aren't doing anything?

CP - He goes so back and forth. Sometimes he says I'm doing what I need to do, but most of the time he tells me I've done nothing. My EA threw him so off balance he still doesn't know which end is up. Today is a really bad day for him as on D-day he found a chat I'd had and read every word, a chat that occurred one year ago tonight. I have got to come up with something today to make him feel loved and appreciated. Words don't matter to him - he needs action. Concrete action.

I think the reason he says I've done nothing is because I was slow to do a few specific things he asked me to do. Even more so because he had to ask in the first place instead of me initiating things like deactivating facebook (the vehicle for the EA). I had blocked the OM, but he wanted FB gone all together. Clearing the hard drive of the computer is another thing I should have done sooner. But a lot of what he's asked for have nothing to do with the A per se. Sharing details with my siblings and asking my sister for advice - to BH that was bringing other people into our M and deeply upset him. He is still demanding an apology from my sister and her H for offering my kids and me a place to stay if needed. Because I wasn't the one initiating a request for an apology and he had to push me to do it, he feels I've done nothing. Because I never threw away the clothes I wore in a few pictures that I sent to OM, because I didn't suggest and even resisted changing my phone number and getting rid of my phone (I was self-employed business owner with that # listed on everything. I have since stopped the business). The list goes on. For everything I have done there are numerous reasons he can name that though it was something, it wasn't enough. My attitude really sucked for a long time and that obviously hurt him more. I was so angry with him (there's been verbal abuse for a long time, it's not an after effect of the A) that I had a very difficult time getting to the point where I fully accepted that dealing with his pain and working on healing had to come before mine.

Last night I took Mel's advice and told him his plan wouldn't work and that I would no longer tolerate the name calling. I've made this request before. I told him that I felt the path to his recovery, his 'repair' as he calls it, is through the healing of our marriage. But he refuses to accept this. He flat out tells me he won't work on the M until I "repair" him.

I do so want my M to work. I really love my husband and want to keep my family together, and I want us to be a healthy productive couple! I know I hurt him beyong anything I can imagine. I know we have a lot of work to do, but I'm willing to do it. Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?
Originally Posted by MrsV
Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Dear MrsV,

I don't have the right answer to your question. It is not yours to tell how tightly he holds to his pain. You cannot actually make him do anything, you cannot tell you H to get over it nor can you "fix" him. But what you can do is to keep your eyes on your own plate - start with yourself. What can you do to make him feel better? Have you thrown away those clothes, or all the stuff which associates with your A and might trigger him?

You said that he's been verbally abusive long before A. How have you handled it before?










Originally Posted by MrsV
Originally Posted by MrsV
Some MCs say that one person can save a marriage. Is that true if the other spouse holds too tightly to their pain and anger?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

"It takes two to say yes to a relationship. It only takes one to say 'no.'"
MrsV

Have you ever addressed the insecurities this affair may have triggered in your husband, men have a difficult time talking about them. The fact that your EA was with and old boyfriend would say to me, as a man, that I was sexually inferior to your old flame. While that viewpoint might be alien to you as a woman, your really have to try and view these events through his eyes.

In my case I think of my wifes 3 EAs simply as taller, better looking and wealthier. Men are compeditive. Was your OM superior in some ways to your H or does he feel that way?

NJ
Niitse - I know I can't "fix" him. He's the one who keeps telling me that I am the only one who can. It is my job, according to him, to repair him. I have done good work on myself this past year. I'm actually in a pretty good place as an individual - my self-esteem has greatly improved. It's funny, in a way, this past year my BH has been pushing me and pushing me to "fix" him. Pushing me to meet his needs by being more organized, more confident, more decisive. I have become so. Confident enough now to speak my mind instead of just internalize the things that hurt me.

I think I've finally accepted that he really wants to see me hurt the way I hurt him. He wants to punish me. He doesn't say that, but he shows it.

NJ - my OM was in no way superior. Not in the ways that matter to my BH. My BH has a better job, is intellectually smarter, is better looking, is cultured and worldly and wonderful in so many ways. The need the OM met for me was emotional conversation. Yes, it may have made him feel sexually inferior to the old flame, as you said. When BH talks about OM he doesn't seem to feel inferior in any way, but there must be insecurity there or I can't imagine all that pain is present without some.
MrsV,
Where is Family Commitment on your husbands ENs? It looks to me like from his list that maybe you are confusing DS with FC since they involve taking care of the kids. If this were is the case, you might not be meeting his #1 need.

When he says you are the only one that can "repair" him, does he really mean that you have to earn his trust back, show him that you are committed to the marriage (and family). That is what the list reflects to me.
I reread the definitions of DS and FC just to be sure. DS is his #1. The house has to be tidy with everything in its place. The children and I need to be dressed and put together as well. Meal planning and such still fall under DS.

We've talked at length about what "repair" means. If it meant earn his trust back and show him I'm committed that would make sense to me. That's what I've been doing. But it seems to be more than that. When I ask him for specifics as to how to do this, he tells me I'll never understand him, that I just can't get it and how he can't understand why I don't get it because it is so simple.

He was sewing a pocket of a blazer when I came down from putting the kids to bed. I offered to take over for him. He said, "I don't wnat it to get damaged further." I offerred a massage when I saw his neck was aching him, "No." I had my IC yesterday and later asked him if he would consider coming back with me to talk with her. He saw her alone a few times at the beginning and that seemed to help, but he hasn't since Feb or March. He said he didn't know. I made him dinner, lit candles, put on music, tried talking, but he stonewalled me. I tried to initiate conversation several times, but he said he didn't want to talk about our marriage. Didn't want to talk to me. After dinner he just picked up his laptop and disappeared behind it. I usually give up quite easily when he's in these moods and then at a later time he'll tell me not to give up, to just keep trying to reach him. So that's what I did. I just stayed next to him on the couch reading Your Love & Marriage by Harley. I brought him a little plate of biscuits he loves. He pushed the plate away. Though at first glance it felt like I was being rejected at every turn, he actually let me cuddle with him in bed a little. So, maybe I got it a little right last night after all.
I think he will believe your commitment when it comes in terms of repeatedly pushing at his wall, over and over again. He puts up the walls just to see if you will stick at it all day long, not giving up.

IMO, THAT - not giving up - is what he wants to see in you. To him, THAT is commitment.
Dear MrsV,

I would like to suggest you an article, just to encourage you to think about your situation in terms of what you are and not so much in terms of what he's doing wrong. It is a very interesting piece.

http://www.arbinger.com/downloads/what_we_are.pdf
CP - I think you're right. I will keep pushing (gently).
Niitse - thanks for the article. I'm looking forward to reading it.

I appreciate all of you reading and offering insight and suggestions. I need it. I want to help heal my husband and heal my marriage. My husband needs his children in his life every day and I want to make certain that he has them and they have him. I hope he'll meet me on common ground - out of pain, into hope.
Well, here it is. D-day. And the other day at work he was informed it was time to "look for other opportunities", so essentially, within 3-months he's out of a job. Good times.

As a BS, what has your WS done to comfort you that actually worked, even when you were at your most hurt and angry?

Mrs.V,

I guess all of us will give you advice on what we would like.

So let me start by saying what would you do if there were no A involved in this?

I have been through a few things like this, and being told by my W that "everything will work out and don't worry", wasn't very helpful. I would also imagine you joining him in the sorrow of being made "useless" is not going to work either. Zippy pep talks would strike me as very encouraging.

I guess I would suggest you consider being very "honest" with him and very supportive in the "we will get through this and I will help you anyway I can, I am NOT going anywhere except where you are going." I suggest that you two get a plan together, assuming he will be unemployeed for say 6 months.

Can you help control spending, can you do come with plans to make money stretch, can you ease his concerns about the money. Can you make it clear he has what you NEED, whether he has a job or not?

Mrs.V, I suggest you look at this as an OPPORTUNITY to be the W you can and want to be, as well as make your marriage stronger in this time. Most of us guys are devastated when we lose a job, because it defines us. Yeah, I know it is wrong, but it is how most of us were reared...support the family. He also is dealing with the fact that you chose another man to invest your emotions and your love in.

You cannot help him heal, you cannot avoid him being down, but you can support him, encourage him, and love him. If he knows you find him someone "lovable", someone who has tried and is changing for the better, someone YOU ARE PROUD of, then you have the chance to minimize the effects of all that is happening.

Notice I am not really talking that much about your A. I am really telling you what I would tell you had you not had the A. The A just makes things a bit harder because your credibility has been compromised. You are doing well. After today, memories of the last year will not be of you in your A, but you working on your marriage. Next year the memories will be of what you do this year. And the next...

Do you see the plan? Oh! and make sure that you tell him how he can MAKE YOU HAPPY. I know this sounds weird, but most BS's think they have failed to do this and thus their self-esteem goes down. Oddly, you asking him to do things for you. YOu showing your appreciation when he does something nice for you. You smiling and expressing happiness when he does something good will actually help him.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL
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