Marriage Builders
Posted By: Dude007 No desire to get married ever again..Defogg? - 11/30/09 04:43 PM
As my fwxw and my relationship appears to be greatly healed. We are doing awesome. The more time that goes on, the more reluctant I become to ever get married again, even to her. Its not that I want to be "single" or "wayward", I just don't think I have it in me to do the "vows" thing ever again. Is this normal? Is is plausible to live such a life? It seems like cake eating of having all the luxuries/benefits of a wife without the ultimate comittment. I'm really happy and love my life so I'm scared to change anything. Is the the END of the healing? thoughts...DUDE
Are you living together?
I believe Dr. Harley calls it being a "renter" but you already know this.
Originally Posted by Holyheart
Are you living together?

I have my own place that I stay at periodically. DUDE
Originally Posted by princessmeggy
I believe Dr. Harley calls it being a "renter" but you already know this.
Yep.

But - I have say I agree with Dude (to an extent). For me, it seems like the vows are meaningless anyway - to everyone but me. I know the obvious thing is to find someone to whom the vows are meaningful, but I thought I already did that and it turns out I was wrong. Society is more punitive to someone who fails to fulfill their contract with their credit card company than to their marriage. So I can't see myself agreeing to such a meaningless contract again.

Hi Dude:)
Sometimes it is as simple as it sounds...
Right on! PM.
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Holyheart
Are you living together?

I have my own place that I stay at periodically. DUDE



Cake-eating.
Originally Posted by Dude007
Is this normal?

I think it is. If H and I ever divorced, I never plan to marry again or even get involved in a serious relationship either. To me, the risks aren't worth it.
Originally Posted by ivetz
Hi Dude:)

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZZUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPPP???!!

DUDE
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Dude007
Is this normal?

I think it is. If H and I ever divorced, I never plan to marry again or even get involved in a serious relationship either. To me, the risks aren't worth it.

I'm thinking I'm w/ you...Seriously, it just ain't worth the risks. Even throwing out adultery, all the other crazy stuff a spouse can pull. DUDE
I know that if my FWH and I don't make it. I WILL NEVER GET M AGAIN!!! I believe that ppl just don't believe in manogamy and M anymore. This is my second M and I left my first H because he cheated. Now I am trying to rebuild after my current H affair and sometimes I just want to buy a condo in the city get a couple of cats and never be involved with another man again.

Yeah, it has been 1 yr. 5 months and sometimes I still get bitter.
Originally Posted by cobol_girl
I know that if my FWH and I don't make it. I WILL NEVER GET M AGAIN!!! I believe that ppl just don't believe in manogamy and M anymore. This is my second M and I left my first H because he cheated. Now I am trying to rebuild after my current H affair and sometimes I just want to buy a condo in the city get a couple of cats and never be involved with another man again.

Yeah, it has been 1 yr. 5 months and sometimes I still get bitter.

Why did you dump the first one and stay w/ the second? My first wife was sort of wayward. No affair but was definitely checking things out. Once we split I said ADIOS and good riddence. Second had a full blown affair, yet I'm trying to fix it??!! IDK...DUDE
Why did you dump the first one and stay w/ the second?

My first H was abusive and when he cheated (again) I considered this my get out of a bad M free card. I was faithful to him for nine years but his temper and abuse was very hard to deal with. I was kind of glad to get out of that M. My current H cheating suprised the h3ll out of me. I thought we had a M made in heaven. I thought he had the same kind of morals and integrity I had. I thought that this man was the most honest man I have ever met (NOT). I decided to rebuild with him because I really do love him and I love being M to him. It has been really hard since his A because I don't respect him as much as I did before and I often am guarded just in case he goes stupid again but I don't want to end this M because I think we have something worth holding on to.
DUDE:

Its really rather simple.

She cheated on your once. She realized that the grass wasn't greener. That DUDE wasn't all that bad.

Seems like things can be great again.

But.

But she can cheat again. Maybe the next guy can provide whatever whe is really in seach of.

And if I don't re-marry her, then she's out the door, and my assets are mine, and hers are whatever they happen to be, No messy divorce, no messy whatever, just pack'em and go.

Cake-eating? Sure. Your eating cake with someone who is always looking for a bigger slice.

If that attitude in her changed? Maybe you get married.

And DUDE? Your options are open too. You may want the bigger slice in the future. That's ok. If you recognize this in yourself, than you should end the relationship with her, because your using her until a better toy comes along. You understand that she is operating under this premise as well. Its bad in her, but she may not have the self-awareness to understand that, and may not ever.

Unfortunately, you do. And that is crux of the problem.

LG
Originally Posted by cobol_girl
Why did you dump the first one and stay w/ the second?

My first H was abusive and when he cheated (again) I considered this my get out of a bad M free card. I was faithful to him for nine years but his temper and abuse was very hard to deal with. I was kind of glad to get out of that M. My current H cheating suprised the h3ll out of me. I thought we had a M made in heaven. I thought he had the same kind of morals and integrity I had. I thought that this man was the most honest man I have ever met (NOT). I decided to rebuild with him because I really do love him and I love being M to him. It has been really hard since his A because I don't respect him as much as I did before and I often am guarded just in case he goes stupid again but I don't want to end this M because I think we have something worth holding on to.

I felt the same about my wife, (your second H)...When we are in MC and the therapist asks to give a few positive things about my wife, the things I would normally come up with, (honest, trusting, faithful, someone I would share foxhole with, a friend, etc), no longer apply.

I could only say that she makes me laugh, sometimes.

That is sad.
'Dude', who cares if you're cake eating? You got burned before, you deserve to eat some cake. As far as I am concerned if you can get the milk for free why buy the cow, while you're at it. Take the whole thing, if you want.

30 days post Dday my wife went on vacation for a month, overseas. I went full bore into IC and I too was at a place that you're at. I was totally at peace, very happy, wasn't near as hurt as when she was here. My two kids that still live at home were equally happy, and they LOVED how the house was being run by me.

We had zero negative energy, no yelling or screaming, yet the house was completely clean and in order.

Then my wife came back from vaca on 5 Nov...damn.
Dude,

I still don't think you're meant to be married. You will always be at risk for having another revenge affair. I think you're just selfish and want all the material things to yourself...
I think it would be best for everyone if you never did get married again.
Originally Posted by lousygolfer
DUDE:

Its really rather simple.

She cheated on your once. She realized that the grass wasn't greener. That DUDE wasn't all that bad.

Seems like things can be great again.

But.

But she can cheat again. Maybe the next guy can provide whatever whe is really in seach of.

And if I don't re-marry her, then she's out the door, and my assets are mine, and hers are whatever they happen to be, No messy divorce, no messy whatever, just pack'em and go.

Cake-eating? Sure. Your eating cake with someone who is always looking for a bigger slice.

If that attitude in her changed? Maybe you get married.

And DUDE? Your options are open too. You may want the bigger slice in the future. That's ok. If you recognize this in yourself, than you should end the relationship with her, because your using her until a better toy comes along. You understand that she is operating under this premise as well. Its bad in her, but she may not have the self-awareness to understand that, and may not ever.

Unfortunately, you do. And that is crux of the problem.

LG

WELL SAID....WOW..That is right on LG...DUDE
StillDawn, that's pretty harsh. Does that apply to all of us BS's who failed to apply MB to the letter and ended up losing their M's? I may not have had an RA, but I did some other stupid stuff. I completely GET how Dude feels right now. I certainly question whether I was meant to be married - after all, I failed twice so maybe it IS me.

And like I said earlier, society's definition of marriage doesn't even match mine so what would be the point? Why can't I develop a committed relationship with someone without marriage instead? How bad is it really to just be a renter for a while?

When one loses a home to bankrupcy, fire or whatever, don't they end up renting for a time while they get back on their feet? Would "everyone" be better off if they never bought another home?
Originally Posted by StillDawn
Dude,

I still don't think you're meant to be married. You will always be at risk for having another revenge affair. I think you're just selfish and want all the material things to yourself...
I think it would be best for everyone if you never did get married again.

I'm agreeing w/ you. All my friends/family and HERS think I'm some big HERO. I'm not. I'm trying, but I just don't think I can be married. Had she never cheated, maybe w/ luck I would have never, but I suspect I would have. I think she saved my life in some weird, distorted way. DUDE
Dude, don't get me wrong...I like you but, I think your screen name should be "Big Head"...as in the one on top of your shoulders...
Why on earth would anyone think that you're a "hero" for having a revenge affair??? These people obviously don't know about that part.
Yes, and I do believe that had your W not had an A, that you would have done so anyway.
Are you an only child Dude? I can just feel entitlement coming through my computer when I read your posts. You are not entitled to everything. You need to move down a few rungs on the ladder and just accept responsibility for YOU. She screwed up, you screwed up. You are not a hero by any means--but still, we like you!! But, sometimes your arrogance just sends razor blades up my veins...

It seems like you're more concerned about "stuff". Material stuff. Nice house, nice car, etc. I don't "get" you at all.
Originally Posted by Dude007
I think she saved my life in some weird, distorted way. DUDE

Maybe I'm weird and distorted for even understanding this. think We all have some degree of wayward thinking Dude. Hopefully we all grow wiser and less wayward as we get older.
Originally Posted by StillDawn
Dude, don't get me wrong...I like you but, I think your screen name should be "Big Head"...as in the one on top of your shoulders...
Why on earth would anyone think that you're a "hero" for having a revenge affair??? These people obviously don't know about that part.
Yes, and I do believe that had your W not had an A, that you would have done so anyway.
Are you an only child Dude? I can just feel entitlement coming through my computer when I read your posts. You are not entitled to everything. You need to move down a few rungs on the ladder and just accept responsibility for YOU. She screwed up, you screwed up. You are not a hero by any means--but still, we like you!! But, sometimes your arrogance just sends razor blades up my veins...

It seems like you're more concerned about "stuff". Material stuff. Nice house, nice car, etc. I don't "get" you at all.

I said I'm not a hero??!! I like you too and I'm not an only child. DUDE
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Dude007
I think she saved my life in some weird, distorted way. DUDE

Maybe I'm weird and distorted for even understanding this. think We all have some degree of wayward thinking Dude. Hopefully we all grow wiser and less wayward as we get older.

I like it BR. As usual, you are wiser than most..DUDE
>I think she saved my life in some weird, distorted way.

I think I'm really glad you figured this out.

I must say that upon thinking about his subject, I would caution you to legally put in writing what your wishes would be in the event that something happened to you - especially in regards to your DNR wishes, what you want for your children, and what you'd leave to her (if anything).

I think, if the Wookie and I had split and gotten back together as you and your wife have - but decided not to marry again, that it would be imperitive to me that he make decisions for me if I was unable to. My family (mom and dad) really don't know my wishes - the Wookie does.

But then, that would take a level of extreme trust, no? Would you ever trust her that way?
StillDawn goes on about the material losses in a divorce as if they shouldn't matter. But they DO! Who wants to go through that AGAIN after having gone through it once. ESPECIALLY if you've gotten those things TOGETHER WITH your spouse, who may then turn on you and take it all through the courts? That's a BETRAYAL almost as big as that of the affair itself!

Who REALLY wants to risk those kinds of losses again? Let's face it, without those material things, house, car, income, etc., you're just a homeless bum in this society, especially if you're a man. Some people may take pity on you for a while, but if you don't pull yourself back up by your bootstraps soon afterward, the pity quickly fades, and you're back to being seen as bum.

At least if you stay single, you only have your own personal circumstances to blame if you somehow lose everything.
Originally Posted by MacNut
StillDawn goes on about the material losses in a divorce as if they shouldn't matter. But they DO! Who wants to go through that AGAIN after having gone through it once. ESPECIALLY if you've gotten those things TOGETHER WITH your spouse, who may then turn on you and take it all through the courts? That's a BETRAYAL almost as big as that of the affair itself!

Who REALLY wants to risk those kinds of losses again? Let's face it, without those material things, house, car, income, etc., you're just a homeless bum in this society, especially if you're a man. Some people may take pity on you for a while, but if you don't pull yourself back up by your bootstraps soon afterward, the pity quickly fades, and you're back to being seen as bum.

At least if you stay single, you only have your own personal circumstances to blame if you somehow lose everything.

Yeah, I'll keep cars thank you! If anything, I can outrun all the waywards out there! DUDE
DUDE,

What,exactly do you want us to say to you? Most people here would kill for the chance to recover a marriage. You seem, like a cat, willing to bat it around for awhile, play with the opportunity, then walk off.
Does your XW agree with your renter's philosophy? If so, maybe you need to find a renter's site, I'm sure they are out there and abundant. My .02 Remember, renter's life, renters rewards.

We have a recent poster who's "wife" of 9 years walked off and married another in a few weeks. Come to find out, he was not married at all- or only married in his mind due to their living conditions.

I was surprized at the ammount of posters who simply told him to back off, they were not M, and he had to honor her new, "real M".

If this is what you really want, what you are saying in fine, but why post here?

Originally Posted by barbiecat
DUDE,

What,exactly do you want us to say to you? Most people here would kill for the chance to recover a marriage. You seem, like a cat, willing to bat it around for awhile, play with the opportunity, then walk off.
Does your XW agree with your renter's philosophy? If so, maybe you need to find a renter's site, I'm sure they are out there and abundant. My .02 Remember, renter's life, renters rewards.

We have a recent poster who's "wife" of 9 years walked off and married another in a few weeks. Come to find out, he was not married at all- or only married in his mind due to their living conditions.

I was surprized at the ammount of posters who simply told him to back off, they were not M, and he had to honor her new, "real M".

If this is what you really want, what you are saying in fine, but why post here?

Because I'm still healing and the question was posed for just that. "is not wanting to ever marry again mean I'm close to healing?" That is the question, not all the rental crap which I know is not what I ever wanted, but maybe all my heart can allow going forward. Make sense? DUDE
Dude, did you see my post?
Dude,

What's your timeline again???...

and does your exW/girlfriend know you are thinking this way??? if so, how does she feel about it???

not2fun
Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Holyheart
Are you living together?

I have my own place that I stay at periodically. DUDE



Cake-eating.


Oh please. Now having sex with someone you are dating/living with is cake eating when you are single?

That's not how it works. One of the benefits of being single is that you can hop from bed to bed to bed if you so choose, and it's not infidelity. The fact that Dude USED to be married to her is completely irrelevant. He isn't now.
Originally Posted by not2fun
Dude,

What's your timeline again???...

and does your exW/girlfriend know you are thinking this way??? if so, how does she feel about it???

not2fun

Well, Its been 1.5 years since DDAY, and a year since PLAN D. I was thinking I was opened to RE-M. But now, as the fog really lifts, I can't see myself ever saying any vows w/ anyone??!! IKD I'm trying to make sure I've healed right. No more fogginess, no hate/resentment, no more justification for RA. I'm very trusting. That isn't gone. So whats left??! I just really don't want to say any vows again, EVER. I just think its a farse cuz there are so many A's and D's, why even say it. Also, its too darn risky..DUDE
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by sexymamabear
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Holyheart
Are you living together?

I have my own place that I stay at periodically. DUDE



Cake-eating.


Hey, its my MAIN MAN KRAZY!!! Whhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuuupppppp???! DUDE

Oh please. Now having sex with someone you are dating/living with is cake eating when you are single?

That's not how it works. One of the benefits of being single is that you can hop from bed to bed to bed if you so choose, and it's not infidelity. The fact that Dude USED to be married to her is completely irrelevant. He isn't now.
I figured I'd drop by see what's going on. It's weird...it's like the forum never changes. Only the names do.

I'm a completely different person now that I've been moved out for quite some time. I definitely made the right choice, even though it's very tough financially.

I can't believe I was ever married to such a piece of crap. It's now my opinion that all WS should be dropped on their [censored], no questions asked, after offense #1 regardless of remorse level. That's the biggest reason I don't post these days.

I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I figured I'd drop by see what's going on. It's weird...it's like the forum never changes. Only the names do.

I'm a completely different person now that I've been moved out for quite some time. I definitely made the right choice, even though it's very tough financially.

I can't believe I was ever married to such a piece of crap. It's now my opinion that all WS should be dropped on their [censored], no questions asked, after offense #1 regardless of remorse level. That's the biggest reason I don't post these days.

I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.

Of course a "fully recovered" is settling. I don't think its really FULLY, but we both know that. It does feel good when you move out. You will feel a FAST healing. Watch out for all the partying, fast cars, and fast women. You and I are too old for that!!! [NOT!] hehe DUDE
Glad to see you're back...i checked this morning and your last post was before the crash. then this afternoon you magically reappeared.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
One of the benefits of being single is that you can hop from bed to bed to bed if you so choose, and it's not infidelity.


Krazy, I think you are overlooking the obvious. Wouldn't you define the above as CAKE EATING??
Just curious Dude -- how far do you take your level of commitment then?

Do you co-mingle finances? Do you own property together?
Cuz those are risks too and require trust in your partner.

Do you have an agreement of monogomy? Or is it just assumed?

Are you implementing or following any of the policies for recovery? Committed to meeting each others most important needs? Spending 15 hours per week together? Radical Honesty?

Anything?
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.

I don't know about that, Krazy. The people in recovered marriages (notice I say recovered, not recovering) say their marriage is now better than it was before the infidelity. Apparently the end result was worth the pain they endured.

Not that every WS can be recovered with, of course; some don't want to, or turn out to not be worth the trouble. Sometimes the BS simply does not want to recover the marriage, and every poster here, and the Harleys as well, would say that's their prerogative.

But I personally must give much props to those who were able to recover their marriages after infidelity. It's not something I'm sure I'd be able to do...
Does your state recognize common-law-marriages?
Cuz you might want to watch the calendar/clock then....

(couldn't resist....hehehe)
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Just curious Dude -- how far do you take your level of commitment then?

Do you co-mingle finances? Nope Do you own property together? NopeCuz those are risks too and require trust in your partner.

Do you have an agreement of monogomy? Yes Or is it just assumed?

Are you implementing or following any of the policies for recovery? Committed to meeting each others most important needs? BIG YES! Spending 15 hours per week together? Yes Radical Honesty? Could be better at this.
Anything?
Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Does your state recognize common-law-marriages?
Cuz you might want to watch the calendar/clock then....

(couldn't resist....hehehe)


TOS violation! I'm kidding. Yes, I know the common law statute in Texas and I AGREE w/ Common law marriages. DUDE
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by not2fun
Dude,

What's your timeline again???...

and does your exW/girlfriend know you are thinking this way??? if so, how does she feel about it???

not2fun

Well, Its been 1.5 years since DDAY, and a year since PLAN D. I was thinking I was opened to RE-M. But now, as the fog really lifts, I can't see myself ever saying any vows w/ anyone??!! IKD I'm trying to make sure I've healed right. No more fogginess, no hate/resentment, no more justification for RA. I'm very trusting. That isn't gone. So whats left??! I just really don't want to say any vows again, EVER. I just think its a farse cuz there are so many A's and D's, why even say it. Also, its too darn risky..DUDE

Agree. Just no upside.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes

In my opinion, it's settling for a lesser marriage than one untouched by infidelity. Or maybe I just lack the ability to delude myself.
Krazy, I see your point. I've had the same thoughts myself.... Is it really worth all the work and effort to put into recovery, when I (27, no kids) am still young and with relatively little baggage, could possibly find love with someone else, someone who doesn't have a history of cheating on me.....

I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.
Quote
I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.

Cate1982
I am older than you by several years I am 54. I feel compelled to try and address your question as I find myself in the unfortunate position of being separated and my wife is not willing to reconcile.

I was willing to reconcile however she is still off in lala land with her adultery partner and is seeking her "happiness". From what I am starting to learn all is not well in paradise and she may be having misgivings regarding her course of action.

So like you I am the party that was left. Rejection never feels good no matter what size or shape it takes. I was married to this woman for 33 years and I do believe in marriage for life (so I am biased). I miss my wife. I feel lonely much of the time. I am having to deal with the loss of my hopes and dreams for what was to be. It is without a doubt the most painful and difficult thing I have ever been through.

You have the opportunity to recover. Is your husband willing to commit? I mean commit. It's up to him to prove to you it is worth the investment of your time and effort. None of this lets give it a try but I am talking full blown repentance and regret? For you to give him another chance what is he willing to risk? Is he willing to suffer financially if he breaks his commitment? After all you are taking a risk. He has already proven to be unreliable and untrustworthy, what are his plans to win that back? Forgiveness is not naivety or forgetting about his transgression, he has been given another chance, is he willing to man up and make good on his promises?

So for your risk what are your potential gains. Depending on how long you have been together you can build on your shared memories and good times. If you were to start a new relationship you will likely run into many of the same issues you are running into in your current relationship, you will have just delayed the process of discovery as you will have to start all over at square one, dating, the honeymoon phase, learning all the little things that your new partner likes and dislikes etc.... Takes time. Perhaps you may be lucky, you may find your perfect match. However statistically the odds are against you. As the old saying goes the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

This may be the opportunity for you to repair and build a relationship that has the potential to be better than before. If you don't think that is possible then you have some more work to do. You need to find out why. You will need to assess the commitment level of your husband. How disciplined can you both be. Would the MB process work for you? It has the elements and methods of how to build a solid marriage, where love, honour, protect and cherish actually means something.

So is it worth it? I would say so, even with all the inherent difficulties. (Barring your husband does not having a mental disorder or personality disorder) the investment of time and effort should pay dividends. The option is to go through the emotional and financial turmoil of divorce, and from my experience I would strongly recommend AGAINST that route.

Even in the midst of doubt and uncertainty I encourage you to recover if you possibly can.

Blessings
BCBoy.
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
One of the benefits of being single is that you can hop from bed to bed to bed if you so choose, and it's not infidelity.


Krazy, I think you are overlooking the obvious. Wouldn't you define the above as CAKE EATING??
The impression I get from that statement is some guy picking up and bringing home a different woman every night and kicking her out before breakfast - think Charlie from Two and a Half Men. There's no commitment to any of them and they are aware that they are a ONS. That's playing the field, not cake eating.
Originally Posted by cate1982
Krazy, I see your point. I've had the same thoughts myself.... Is it really worth all the work and effort to put into recovery, when I (27, no kids) am still young and with relatively little baggage, could possibly find love with someone else, someone who doesn't have a history of cheating on me.....

I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.
I think fear has a lot to do with it. Initially upon d-day, I wanted WXH back - badly. It didn't matter what he had done, nor that our M wasn't the greatest to start with. I believe fear was driving this. As his true colours began to show more clearly and I realized I couldn't take him back, I was able to overcome that stage but then I was faced with the prospect that if I was ever going to have another relationship, it would be with someone else. THAT is utterly terrifying. We're talking about someone who I haven't known 20+ years. Someone who hasn't known me 20+ years. Someone who hasn't seen all my body flaws. Someone who's never seen my unshaved legs. Someone who's never seen my bed head, or even my hair not coloured. Someone who's never witnessed me sick or weak. Someone who's never seen or experienced any of my unflattering and private weaknesses. How frightening is that??? I can easily see how, if the WS isn't outright evil like mine, staying with them may seem safer than venturing into the unknown.
Originally Posted by Tabby1
Originally Posted by cate1982
Krazy, I see your point. I've had the same thoughts myself.... Is it really worth all the work and effort to put into recovery, when I (27, no kids) am still young and with relatively little baggage, could possibly find love with someone else, someone who doesn't have a history of cheating on me.....

I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.
I think fear has a lot to do with it. Initially upon d-day, I wanted WXH back - badly. It didn't matter what he had done, nor that our M wasn't the greatest to start with. I believe fear was driving this. As his true colours began to show more clearly and I realized I couldn't take him back, I was able to overcome that stage but then I was faced with the prospect that if I was ever going to have another relationship, it would be with someone else. THAT is utterly terrifying. We're talking about someone who I haven't known 20+ years. Someone who hasn't known me 20+ years. Someone who hasn't seen all my body flaws. Someone who's never seen my unshaved legs. Someone who's never seen my bed head, or even my hair not coloured. Someone who's never witnessed me sick or weak. Someone who's never seen or experienced any of my unflattering and private weaknesses. How frightening is that??? I can easily see how, if the WS isn't outright evil like mine, staying with them may seem safer than venturing into the unknown.

I agree with you. In my opinion, virtually all BS that choose to reconcile do so out of fear, not love.

I decided that I wanted out even if I knew I'd never meet someone else. I'm better off alone.
If he cheats again, then I'm done. I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than with a cheater. But, my H does appear to be genuinely repentent and willing to do whatever it takes.

I agree about the fear thing. Just the thought of having to be out "dating" again makes me feel sick. I've invested almost 8 years into this relationship so I'm less reluctant to cut and run.

I guess it's a gamble with anyone though.
Originally Posted by cate1982
If he cheats again, then I'm done. I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than with a cheater. But, my H does appear to be genuinely repentent and willing to do whatever it takes.

I agree about the fear thing. Just the thought of having to be out "dating" again makes me feel sick. I've invested almost 8 years into this relationship so I'm less reluctant to cut and run.

I guess it's a gamble with anyone though.

The saying "Once a cheater, always a cheater" may not ALWAYS apply, but out in the real world and away from this website, it's mostly true. They may cheat again in a month, or a decade...or maybe they won't actually cheat, but will frequently have a desire to that you can't verify.

So if he cheats again, you're done. Well, what if he just gets a little too friendly with someone online? What if he gets drunk and kisses someone at a party? You gonna leave him then, too?

At your age, and with no kids, I say cut and run. Be happy you only wasted 8 years with him and not 20. Be happy that you aren't 40 with 3 kids and a mortgage. This is YOUR life you're talking about. Is it really worth the risk of throwing more of it away? Do you honestly think you can't find someone better than a cheater?
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes

In my opinion, it's settling for a lesser marriage than one untouched by infidelity. Or maybe I just lack the ability to delude myself.


A Broken marriage that has been repaired is just that. Just like a broken leg or arm are NEVER the same again. You can heal, but its never a "PURE" marriage. Have you ever replaced a transmission in an automobile? It runs, but its never the same again. I think anyone with common sense can agree on that point..DUDE
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by Tabby1
Originally Posted by cate1982
Krazy, I see your point. I've had the same thoughts myself.... Is it really worth all the work and effort to put into recovery, when I (27, no kids) am still young and with relatively little baggage, could possibly find love with someone else, someone who doesn't have a history of cheating on me.....

I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.
I think fear has a lot to do with it. Initially upon d-day, I wanted WXH back - badly. It didn't matter what he had done, nor that our M wasn't the greatest to start with. I believe fear was driving this. As his true colours began to show more clearly and I realized I couldn't take him back, I was able to overcome that stage but then I was faced with the prospect that if I was ever going to have another relationship, it would be with someone else. THAT is utterly terrifying. We're talking about someone who I haven't known 20+ years. Someone who hasn't known me 20+ years. Someone who hasn't seen all my body flaws. Someone who's never seen my unshaved legs. Someone who's never seen my bed head, or even my hair not coloured. Someone who's never witnessed me sick or weak. Someone who's never seen or experienced any of my unflattering and private weaknesses. How frightening is that??? I can easily see how, if the WS isn't outright evil like mine, staying with them may seem safer than venturing into the unknown.

I agree with you. In my opinion, virtually all BS that choose to reconcile do so out of fear, not love.

I decided that I wanted out even if I knew I'd never meet someone else. I'm better off alone.

Are you saying it takes more courage to leave?(I might be in agreement w/ you)

DUDE
I've been reading this thread for the last few days and it has really had me thinking. I am now divocred from my WxH. And there is a big part of me that feels the same way about not wanting to get married ever again. You are a 110% correct that there are some many people out there who believe that if you are not "happy" you should get out and find "happiness." It makes it as if marriage vows are disposable. For me they were not but for my ex they apparently were. I don't know how to put that kind of trust into another person again. I don't know if it's cause my ex left and never looked back again no matter what i did. I did not follow the MB to the tee and maybe that is where i went wrong but i have not talked to him in over 8 almost 9 months now and there is still no remorse on his part. I was the one left damaged and trying to repair that "broken arm." I will never be that pure innocent person that can trust someone 100% again. Is there something wrong with me then? Something wrong with my logic in not wanting even set myself up for that pain or put my daughter through it with a stepfather?
Originally Posted by Dude007
A Broken marriage that has been repaired is just that. Just like a broken leg or arm are NEVER the same again. You can heal, but its never a "PURE" marriage. Have you ever replaced a transmission in an automobile? It runs, but its never the same again. I think anyone with common sense can agree on that point..DUDE

Just because something was broken doesn't mean you still don't cherish it and love it. Infidelity is just one way to break a marriage (probably the worst IMO) but most people don't toss out things that have been repaired. People are flawed. We all have to be hermits to not deal with "brokeness" in others.
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by Tabby1
Originally Posted by cate1982
Krazy, I see your point. I've had the same thoughts myself.... Is it really worth all the work and effort to put into recovery, when I (27, no kids) am still young and with relatively little baggage, could possibly find love with someone else, someone who doesn't have a history of cheating on me.....

I honestly don't have a good answer. I love my H, but I know I could probably be happy with someone else, but I've chosen to try to forgive and recover our marriage. I hope I don't ever regret that choice. The easiest thing to do would be to cut and run, but I feel like I owe it to myself to at least try.

But, every now and then I wonder if I made the right decision.
I think fear has a lot to do with it. Initially upon d-day, I wanted WXH back - badly. It didn't matter what he had done, nor that our M wasn't the greatest to start with. I believe fear was driving this. As his true colours began to show more clearly and I realized I couldn't take him back, I was able to overcome that stage but then I was faced with the prospect that if I was ever going to have another relationship, it would be with someone else. THAT is utterly terrifying. We're talking about someone who I haven't known 20+ years. Someone who hasn't known me 20+ years. Someone who hasn't seen all my body flaws. Someone who's never seen my unshaved legs. Someone who's never seen my bed head, or even my hair not coloured. Someone who's never witnessed me sick or weak. Someone who's never seen or experienced any of my unflattering and private weaknesses. How frightening is that??? I can easily see how, if the WS isn't outright evil like mine, staying with them may seem safer than venturing into the unknown.

I agree with you. In my opinion, virtually all BS that choose to reconcile do so out of fear, not love.

I decided that I wanted out even if I knew I'd never meet someone else. I'm better off alone.

Are you saying it takes more courage to leave?(I might be in agreement w/ you)

DUDE

FAR more in my opinion. Staying with a WS OR a FWS is foolish in my opinion. On this site there is a concentrated number of people who have stories with happy endings. It rarely happens.

It takes real guts to walk away from your spouse. It's easy to stay.
Originally Posted by StrongerThanB4
I've been reading this thread for the last few days and it has really had me thinking. I am now divocred from my WxH. And there is a big part of me that feels the same way about not wanting to get married ever again. You are a 110% correct that there are some many people out there who believe that if you are not "happy" you should get out and find "happiness." It makes it as if marriage vows are disposable. For me they were not but for my ex they apparently were. I don't know how to put that kind of trust into another person again. I don't know if it's cause my ex left and never looked back again no matter what i did. I did not follow the MB to the tee and maybe that is where i went wrong but i have not talked to him in over 8 almost 9 months now and there is still no remorse on his part. I was the one left damaged and trying to repair that "broken arm." I will never be that pure innocent person that can trust someone 100% again. Is there something wrong with me then? Something wrong with my logic in not wanting even set myself up for that pain or put my daughter through it with a stepfather?

I think maybe you shoud seek(and don't mean on here) out someone's betrayed(abandoned) ex-husband that is compatible w/ you. Then you will know he has the same hurt and trust issues that you have. Maybe then, you two could rebuild that part of you together that might currently seem forever broken. IDK Just a thought. DUDE
Krazy

I'm with you on this one my friend. The only reason I wasnt that scared is because my wayward tendencies were clowding those feelings. I was thinking of all the strange I was about to get...Reading your posts on here also convinced me I could never stay...DUDE
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes

In my opinion, it's settling for a lesser marriage than one untouched by infidelity. Or maybe I just lack the ability to delude myself.


A Broken marriage that has been repaired is just that. Just like a broken leg or arm are NEVER the same again. You can heal, but its never a "PURE" marriage. Have you ever replaced a transmission in an automobile? It runs, but its never the same again. I think anyone with common sense can agree on that point..DUDE

True, but why would anyone want such a car over a new one with no history of trouble? Because the seat is indented with the shape of their butt? LOL
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by Dude007
A Broken marriage that has been repaired is just that. Just like a broken leg or arm are NEVER the same again. You can heal, but its never a "PURE" marriage. Have you ever replaced a transmission in an automobile? It runs, but its never the same again. I think anyone with common sense can agree on that point..DUDE

Just because something was broken doesn't mean you still don't cherish it and love it. Infidelity is just one way to break a marriage (probably the worst IMO) but most people don't toss out things that have been repaired. People are flawed. We all have to be hermits to not deal with "brokeness" in others.

I think this depends on how "SACRED" one views marriage. If its absolute, its absolute and once the vows are broken, the marriage has ended at the time of Infidelity, not at the time of divorce...DUDE
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes

In my opinion, it's settling for a lesser marriage than one untouched by infidelity. Or maybe I just lack the ability to delude myself.

The delusion would be thinking a marriage or a single life �untouched by infidelity� is possible for you, me, or anyone else that is a WS or a BS. We will carry our betrayal into reconciling or into another marriage regardless of how hard we try to wash the stain out. The betrayal will impact and influence the decisions and expectations in our marriages to some degree, whether we reconcile or separate or divorce or marry another. However, this doesn�t mean we are now an inferior (lesser) person. I would say to the contrary, that we can be a greater person. Nor does this mean we will have an inferior (lesser) marriage. Again, I would say to the contrary, one of greater value is possible.
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Krazy71
I think that even a "fully recovered" marriage is settling, and I won't settle. Not for anyone.


Krazy, You're right, settling for a fully recovered marriage IS settling...... It IS settling for nothing less than a fully recovered marriage! MrRollieEyes

In my opinion, it's settling for a lesser marriage than one untouched by infidelity. Or maybe I just lack the ability to delude myself.

The delusion would be thinking a marriage or a single life �untouched by infidelity� is possible for you, me, or anyone else that is a WS or a BS. We will carry our betrayal into reconciling or into another marriage regardless of how hard we try to wash the stain out. The betrayal will impact and influence the decisions and expectations in our marriages to some degree, whether we reconcile or separate or divorce or marry another. However, this doesn�t mean we are now an inferior (lesser) person. I would say to the contrary, that we can be a greater person. Nor does this mean we will have an inferior (lesser) marriage. Again, I would say to the contrary, one of greater value is possible.

I disagree. The betrayal can be shaken off over time. Its the waywardness that is forever stained a person's soul. A piece of a person is broken off when they go wayward forever. All you have in your life is your name and your integrity and once you lose that YIKES! When my fwxw confessed, the second thing I said to her was "i'm glad it was you and not me!" I stand by that statement even today. I'd far rather be the BS than the WS.(I know, RA, blah blah blah, but you get my point!) DUDE
Originally Posted by Dude007
I think this depends on how "SACRED" one views marriage. If its absolute, its absolute and once the vows are broken, the marriage has ended at the time of Infidelity, not at the time of divorce...DUDE

I don't think it necessarily comes down to how sacred a person views marriage but it is maybe a component. A husband and wife share vows unlike other realtionships. However, if I were to do harm to my child, sibling or parent (even through neglect) I would have damaged my relationship with him/her. It will never be the same. While I did not take a vow to other family members, I still view it as as duty to do no harm and even sacred in a sense. People screw up, some more than others. H screwed up royally and he can never undo his A but I'm still looking forward to a happy life with him. If he fails me again in a big way (and it doesn't have to be cheating) I have no problem walking. That said, I still would not be looking to marry anyone again. That could change with time, but that's where I stand now and am fine with it.
Originally Posted by Dude007
"is not wanting to ever marry again mean I'm close to healing?" That is the question,


IMO, no, this is not a sign of healing.

This whole thread is certainly WW thinking, selfish and self important.
It is inhumane to think that once something is broken there is no perfect rapair. duh.
As a mother, I have failed my children. EVERY PARENT HAS. Does that mean our relationship is "fractured" forever? Heeelll no. As a daughter to my mother and sister (oh boy as a sister!) I have never been perfect. I have done selfish things. Lost my temper. Disapointed my family. WE ALL HAVE.

So that means those relatioships can never be "perfect" by your standards?!?

My teenage daughter has failed me, many times. She does not treat her sister worth a PHHHHHT. Does that mean she is some way deficient>sp? to you? How did you grow up?? Immaculate>sp? (boy I need a dictionary!) adulthood????

How childish and little your world must be to think that this is the case. Did you reject the birthday cupcake that got dented in the frosting in transit to the party? Was that somehow less of a cupcake, man?

We are not gods, it is in our nature to do what is in our own intrest, and inevidably>sp? we will. I assure you of that. Any fool, at first glean, can think that it will never be the same, but you are only typecasting yourself.

Your children will cuss. Steal candy bars. break windows. skeptical Cuss at YOU! Even, sometimes as adults or people who should know better. Your parents are not perfect, never was, never will be. Grandma drinks whiskey. rant2 I could go on and on.

Cut the 'friggin xwoman some slack already. Let her find a man who will not forever consider her damaged goods. You children can see this you know.

<No, I am not a WW>. BTW -Dude you never answered... is Xwifey O.K. with this?

I call it cake eating because you are doing exactly what a wayward does...

playing husband/daddy-in-the-home when the mood strikes
and
playing single man playing whoever when the mood strikes

That's not the same as a single man dating/sleeping around.

TJ

>Cuss at YOU!

Not if they value their lives.

End TJ.
right on SMB
>BTW -Dude you never answered... is Xwifey O.K. with this?

He also never answered if he weren't to remarry, if he'd ever trust his ex but still SO with important DNR, and final wishes responsibilities.
I settled for a recovered marriage and a family restored.

You settled for a divorce and a family unrestored.

You settled just as much as any of us who chose recovery. You just settled for something different.

And no, I did not recover out of fear. I was waaayyy past fear. I recovered because it was the best case scenario for me, my children, and my husband. We seven are ALL better off with what we have today than what we would have had divorced. But yes, the BEST OPTION is no longer on the table...our family untouched by infidelity.
>We don't get perfect anymore

We didn't get perfect in the first place.

No one is guarenteed "perfect"...and anyone who is selling perfection is lying.

>our family untouched by infidelity.

All families are touched by something. All of them. What is the true telling of those families is how they handled that "something."
Originally Posted by barbiecat
This whole thread is certainly WW thinking, selfish and self important.
It is inhumane to think that once something is broken there is no perfect rapair. duh.
As a mother, I have failed my children. EVERY PARENT HAS. Does that mean our relationship is "fractured" forever? Heeelll no. As a daughter to my mother and sister (oh boy as a sister!) I have never been perfect. I have done selfish things. Lost my temper. Disapointed my family. WE ALL HAVE.

So that means those relatioships can never be "perfect" by your standards?!?

My teenage daughter has failed me, many times. She does not treat her sister worth a PHHHHHT. Does that mean she is some way deficient>sp? to you? How did you grow up?? Immaculate>sp? (boy I need a dictionary!) adulthood????

How childish and little your world must be to think that this is the case. Did you reject the birthday cupcake that got dented in the frosting in transit to the party? Was that somehow less of a cupcake, man?

We are not gods, it is in our nature to do what is in our own intrest, and inevidably>sp? we will. I assure you of that. Any fool, at first glean, can think that it will never be the same, but you are only typecasting yourself.

Your children will cuss. Steal candy bars. break windows. skeptical Cuss at YOU! Even, sometimes as adults or people who should know better. Your parents are not perfect, never was, never will be. Grandma drinks whiskey. rant2 I could go on and on.

Cut the 'friggin xwoman some slack already. Let her find a man who will not forever consider her damaged goods. You children can see this you know.

<No, I am not a WW>. BTW -Dude you never answered... is Xwifey O.K. with this?

I think you've inadvertently made a point of mine from an earlier post. Infidelity is just a mistake, a failure, an error of judgement, a broken promise like every other bad decision we make in life. It does not RISE above all these other things because vows were involved, its just another failure? The vows were just a promise, a promise a spouse has broken. Is this what I'm reading into your post? DUDE
I agree D. That's why I edited it out. smile
Adore you SMB...and I don't think you settled for anything.

Raising the bar high, expecting that it's met and meeting your own bar is not settling. It's respectful boundries at it's finest.
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
>No one is guarenteed "perfect"...and anyone who is selling perfection is lying.

whistle lashes flirt grin

Quote
All families are touched by something. All of them. What is the true telling of those families is how they handled that "something."

hurray
Originally Posted by Dude007
You can heal, but it�s never a "PURE" marriage
Unfortunately, this is true. A certain innocence is lost in a marriage that has been touched by infidelity. But that innocence is lost for the BS forever, weather the marriage continues or not.


Originally Posted by Dude007
A Broken marriage that has been repaired is just that. Just like a broken leg or arm are NEVER the same again. You can heal, but its never a "PURE" marriage. Have you ever replaced a transmission in an automobile? It runs, but its never the same again. I think anyone with common sense can agree on that point..DUDE
Yes, but...

Last transmission I pulled got a TransGo shift kit, TCI Super overdrive servo, TCI deep sump pan, a huge stacked plate cooler, external filter, and super fancy T.V. pressure gauge for my own amusement. It is now far superior to it's original factory form, and I get the satisfaction of knowing I did all the work myself.
grin smile stickout

Dr Harley says it is possible to have a better, more fulfilling marriage, after recovery than you had before. While this may not be the norm, I would agree that it is possible for some.

But it is very true, no marriage is the same after an affair.

Really what I hear in this thread is a few folks beating there chest saying "I'm better than you because I got out"

Or am I misinterpreting things?

Yeah, that about sums it up. You promised to honor cherish and protect her too, did you not? So, It is O.K. to go back on your vows because she did it first?!?

Recovery is not for whimps. But, neither is divorce.

Acording to MB, and most people, you have every right to walk away right now.
I admire that you want to understand your feelings about this better before you move on.
--peaceout
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
>BTW -Dude you never answered... is Xwifey O.K. with this?

He also never answered if he weren't to remarry, if he'd ever trust his ex but still SO with important DNR, and final wishes responsibilities.

I need to consult her on this. Originally she said re-m was not a requirement but she has since made comments to me that lead me to think she is not so sure on that. I trust her fully. I trusted her fully on DDAY. I saw first hand the pain, regret, remorse, fear in her eyes. DUDE
well i know i am not 100% ready for anything and that is part of the problem. It wasn't anything i did to deserve my husband to cheat and then leave me and my one month old daughter to go live with his OW and her son. We did nothing to deserve that. What i was trying to say i guess is i see your point of how easily vows mean nothing to most people. They don't respect them for the most part and i can see your point about why not to get married again.
Dude007, I can understand you wanting to remain unmarried. But as you already know, you live with no more than a renters agreement. A simple analogy is that you have taken out an option to buy. But you do not own anything yet when you have no more than an option. It�s just that, an option. You are not a buyer, nor are you a freeloader. Since you have invested in the option, you have entered into a renters agreement.

Originally Posted by StrongerThanB4
well i know i am not 100% ready for anything and that is part of the problem. It wasn't anything i did to deserve my husband to cheat and then leave me and my one month old daughter to go live with his OW and her son. We did nothing to deserve that. What i was trying to say i guess is i see your point of how easily vows mean nothing to most people. They don't respect them for the most part and i can see your point about why not to get married again.

So we have a spectrum here. On this spectrum there are those that view Marriage as eternally sacred covenant between a man and a woman. Once broken via infidelity its gone forever and hence the BS must move to Plan D immediately. Then, we have the complete other end that you can be married, but marriage is only a promise do no harm, like ANY other promise in life that usually gets broken. Once the BS learns of the A, they should do everything to repair the damage done to the marriage by the WS and the marriage should be saved "at all costs". Others will lie SOMEWHERE in between. DUDE
Originally Posted by tst
Dude007, I can understand you wanting to remain unmarried. But as you already know, you live with no more than a renters agreement. A simple analogy is that you have taken out an option to buy. But you do not own anything yet when you have no more than an option. It�s just that, an option. You are not a buyer, nor are you a freeloader. Since you have invested in the option, you have entered into a renters agreement.

But even a purchase agreement(Marriage) can be foreclosed on at anytime by either party wanting out of the purchase contract. Some times it pays to rent than to buy. It depends on the market. DUDE
Dude, did you eat breakfast this morning?
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Recovery is not for whimps. But, neither is divorce.
THIS!
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally she said re-m was not a requirement but she has since made comments to me that lead me to think she is not so sure on that. I trust her fully. I trusted her fully on DDAY. I saw first hand the pain, regret, remorse, fear in her eyes. DUDE

That's because she WANTS to be a buyer in this relationship. She also wants you to be a buyer in the relationship. She knows what happened when she stepped outside of the M was wrong or she would not have felt pain, regret, remorse, or fear. Freeloaders and Renters typically don't have those feelings after they have committed adultery.
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally she said re-m was not a requirement but she has since made comments to me that lead me to think she is not so sure on that. I trust her fully. I trusted her fully on DDAY. I saw first hand the pain, regret, remorse, fear in her eyes. DUDE

That's because she WANTS to be a buyer in this relationship. She also wants you to be a buyer in the relationship. She knows what happened when she stepped outside of the M was wrong or she would not have felt pain, regret, remorse, or fear. Freeloaders and Renters typically don't have those feelings after they have committed adultery.

I would argue, based on my own feelings and those expressed by other BS's with failed marriages here, that it may not be possible for a BS to be a buyer after the betrayal. Perhaps it happens eventually and those BS's are no longer here to detail the process. I wouldn't look to remarriage stats either because many BS's remarry on the rebound. I completely understand what Dude means when he says that a purchaser agreement is no good anyway as either party can foreclose at any time. Why would a BS want to reinvest like that? Especially when you can just rent?
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by tst
Dude007, I can understand you wanting to remain unmarried. But as you already know, you live with no more than a renters agreement. A simple analogy is that you have taken out an option to buy. But you do not own anything yet when you have no more than an option. It�s just that, an option. You are not a buyer, nor are you a freeloader. Since you have invested in the option, you have entered into a renters agreement.

But even a purchase agreement(Marriage) can be foreclosed on at anytime by either party wanting out of the purchase contract. Some times it pays to rent than to buy. It depends on the market. DUDE

Dude, you never make anything or get paid by renting. You just aren't risking any loss!
In order to profit from any investment, even an option, you must first become a buyer.

Can you imagine going to a broker and saying, I want to invest in something that has no risk of loss?

They would tell you that is not possible!

However, where there is no investment, you can never have an ROI

Most investements are levered. ie you BORROW the funds to which you invest!

DUDE
Originally Posted by Tabby1
Originally Posted by tst
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally she said re-m was not a requirement but she has since made comments to me that lead me to think she is not so sure on that. I trust her fully. I trusted her fully on DDAY. I saw first hand the pain, regret, remorse, fear in her eyes. DUDE

That's because she WANTS to be a buyer in this relationship. She also wants you to be a buyer in the relationship. She knows what happened when she stepped outside of the M was wrong or she would not have felt pain, regret, remorse, or fear. Freeloaders and Renters typically don't have those feelings after they have committed adultery.

I would argue, based on my own feelings and those expressed by other BS's with failed marriages here, that it may not be possible for a BS to be a buyer after the betrayal. Perhaps it happens eventually and those BS's are no longer here to detail the process. I wouldn't look to remarriage stats either because many BS's remarry on the rebound. I completely understand what Dude means when he says that a purchaser agreement is no good anyway as either party can foreclose at any time. Why would a BS want to reinvest like that? Especially when you can just rent?

AGREED...DUDE
Originally Posted by tst
Can you imagine going to a broker and saying, I want to invest in something that has no risk of loss?
However, investing in marriage (in this society) is very high risk as the whole thing can dissolve without warning, and unlike financial investments, there's no insurance available to minimize that loss. Yet you still need a place to live.

(disclaimer: I fully understand your point tst and I don't disagree entirely. It's actually one of the conudrums I face as I'm a buyer by nature and want the ROI, but feel as though marriage is about as secure an investment as the lottery)
Totally agree with Tabby and Dude.

I will never re-marry and i will never give my heart to someone the way my H had it, it is not worth the pain to me. I will just be a renter too!!
Originally Posted by tst
[quote=Dude007]Freeloaders and Renters typically don't have those feelings after they have committed adultery.

I really like this quote and think that is what puts a bad taste in people's mouths about wanting to get remarried... because of the these type of people.
Originally Posted by StrongerThanB4
Originally Posted by tst
[quote=Dude007]Freeloaders and Renters typically don't have those feelings after they have committed adultery.

I really like this quote and think that is what puts a bad taste in people's mouths about wanting to get remarried... because of the these type of people.
I'm not sure I understand fully. You're talking about the adulterer's, correct? I guess where I'm going with this is that I don't think I could ever be more than a renter again. I'm not happy about it, but it doesn't make me an adulterer. OTOH, it could explain why WXH feels no remorse or shame in what he did and continues to do.

Going back to the original question, is the lack of desire to remarry related to healing? After all this discussion and some more thought on the matter I'd say it is evidence where we haven't healed. I'm not sure if we can heal to the extent that we are true buyers once again. Speaking for myself at least, I'm so scarred in this regard I can't see how it would happen. Maybe in time, but this is going to take a long, long time.
Originally Posted by Still_Crazy
Totally agree with Tabby and Dude.

I will never re-marry and i will never give my heart to someone the way my H had it, it is not worth the pain to me. I will just be a renter too!!

So if we see the light and most are imperfect and committ adultery at some point(like 60%+), then are we healed? I mean, I think we see things clearly while those staying married and/or wanting to marry again after being betrayed are setting themselves up for more hurt. Why risk it if you don't have to?! IDK I'm just asking..DUDE
There's something about marriage that just isn't there in other relationships, even common-law. For me I guess it was the concept of family and permenance. As family, you have problems with each other and may even stop speaking to each other but regardless, you are still family. People don't divorce their children or siblings (well actually there are occurrances of this but in very, very rare and unique circumstances). Marriage (to me) is supposed to make you and your spouse as close as this. This is what I thought I had. I was wrong.

Now, even if I did remarry, I'll never feel that sense of permanence, regardless of the nature of my new H - even if he were to be the MB poster child. Because I know how easy it is for him to cheat and leave at any time, I'll never be able to feel that connection again. I'll never be able to "buy in" to it. I wish I could, but I can't.

Originally Posted by Tabby1
(disclaimer: I fully understand your point tst and I don't disagree entirely. It's actually one of the conudrums I face as I'm a buyer by nature and want the ROI, but feel as though marriage is about as secure an investment as the lottery)

rotflmao.....not sure why, but this just CRACKED me up...Thanx Tabby.....


DUDE,

I don't think you are "done" healing. I am not surprised you are where you are at this juncture of your journey (which is why I asked for a re-cap of your timeline....). I wouldn't be surprised if in say 6 months or a year from now you feel different......the question then will be "will your exWW/girlfriend feel the same?".....

not2fun
I just wanted to add (and I fully admit I'm making excuses here) that legally speaking, I am better off not remarrying anyway. Canadian law allows common-law the same tangible benefits as marriage, such as taxes, pensions, benefit plans etc., except for one thing: inheritance. In the absence of a will, your estate goes to your spouse if you are married or your children if you are common-law. Given that I have an adult child, if I were to remarry and then die suddenly, DS would lose his inheritance. Not so if I were living common-law. (I realize it's a lame excuse but there is some contention around this particular law whenever some old widower marries a young gold digger, drops dead and then his children get shafted.) In any event, never marrying again does protect him. And I do feel obligated since WXH and OW are common-law, but he cashed in all his RRSPs to buy a house in both their names. Because they are coowners of the house, if he dies, it goes to her. He also removed DS from his life insurance policy saying that OW was so wonderful that if he died, she'll give DS the money.
tabby to answer your question yes i was referring to WS's because that freeloader comment just seems perfect for the WS's i know in realife (ie my exWH and friends exspouses).
Originally Posted by Dude007
I think we see things clearly while those staying married and/or wanting to marry again after being betrayed are setting themselves up for more hurt. Why risk it if you don't have to?! IDK I'm just asking..DUDE

I don't think that by staying married to H that I'm setting myself up for more hurt. That's may be your perception because you didn't stay married. If a BS has a truly repentant spouse they are less likely to be cheated on again with their FWS than with a new spouse or SO. The simple truth is re-marrying is a high risk, period. I think it's been posted that something like 80% of second marriages fail. You have two people that have their own baggage not to mention dealing with children and exs.

My children are young. If H and I ever divorced, I would not be interested in marrying again or at least not for a very long time, as I don't want to risk my children's welfare. I know a few people who remarried only to have their young daughters molested by stepfathers or step siblings boinking each other while living in the same household. If a person doesn't want to remarry, fine but they also shouldn't parade BFs/GFs through the house either. Children don't need to be exposed to that crap.

Oddly enough, I hope to get married again, because I honestly don't feel like I've ever been in love as a "grown-up".

Obviously I'll be very cautious next time around, but I have nothing against the concept of marriage. I quite like it, actually.
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Oddly enough, I hope to get married again, because I honestly don't feel like I've ever been in love as a "grown-up".

Obviously I'll be very cautious next time around, but I have nothing against the concept of marriage. I quite like it, actually.

This view will probably change my friend. Once you getting into the dating scene and realize how many KOOKS are out there you will be VERY reluctant to consider marriage. Most women our age that are single are FUBAR...DUDE
See, that's exactly my point, Dude. But about men. I guess part of me thinks the men out there that are available obviously have something wrong with them, or else they'd already be in a relationship.....

Another reason I was reluctant to leave my M after my WH's betrayals came to light.

It's tough out there. I have a few single friends left and I hear their horror stories on a weekly basis regarding d-bag guys they meet.

All the good ones are already taken.
Originally Posted by cate1982
See, that's exactly my point, Dude. But about men. I guess part of me thinks the men out there that are available obviously have something wrong with them, or else they'd already be in a relationship.....

Another reason I was reluctant to leave my M after my WH's betrayals came to light.

It's tough out there. I have a few single friends left and I hear their horror stories on a weekly basis regarding d-bag guys they meet.

All the good ones are already taken.

Yeah, my fwxw doesn't believe me about that.(Lack of good "dudes") DUDE
Originally Posted by cate1982
All the good ones are already taken.
Not necessarily. And remember, not all the taken ones are good (especially at the current rate of adultery).
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Krazy71
Oddly enough, I hope to get married again, because I honestly don't feel like I've ever been in love as a "grown-up".

Obviously I'll be very cautious next time around, but I have nothing against the concept of marriage. I quite like it, actually.

This view will probably change my friend. Once you getting into the dating scene and realize how many KOOKS are out there you will be VERY reluctant to consider marriage. Most women our age that are single are FUBAR...DUDE

I'll either find a good one or remain single, but if I can't ever find a good one I'll be pretty disappointed.
Originally Posted By: Dude007I think we see things clearly while those staying married and/or wanting to marry again after being betrayed are setting themselves up for more hurt. Why risk it if you don't have to?! IDK I'm just asking..DUDE

I don't think that I am setting myself up for more hurt just because my DH betrayed me once. I love him and I love being M to him inspite of his past failure. He messed up really bad but I have known him for over 20 years and I know that he is a wonderful man. If he messes around again I will put him out of my life for good. But I can truly say that I have enjoyed all of him for a long time and if I have to D him because he fails me again I will not ever regret having him in my life. I am happy that I had the opportunity to be M to him inspite of his short-comings.
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