Readings from the WS "script" - Marriage Builders® Forums

Hey all, I thought I could use some cheering up. Maybe we can all get something from it, plus it may help some of us newbies to realize that they're just words from the FOG.I'd like to start a list of one liners that all the BS out there have heard, or the WS have spoken.For example:I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you.I'm sorry I don't want to TRY, but my heart's just not in it.Any one?K

'What!!!! give HIM up for you ?!?!?!?!'[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Freddy ]

He's just a "friend"!I just need some time to sort things out.[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: kb4jb ]

"I never knew what love was." "Our marriage was over for me, but all you want to do is work on it"

My all time customized favorite that I've heard several times over the months from my W:"I had to move out - it was your decision NOT to leave."To help understand these absurd reasonings, maybe it's time to bring out the following for replay:Word origin of "wayward":way: the route or path to somewhere.ward: loonie bin

I need my independence!

"You just don't get it. You don't understand."

re: contact"it was dumb, i am sorry, i won't do it again"

"Just because I am seeing another man doesn't make me any less of a friend to you.""Spending time with another man doesn't mean I'm neglecting responsibilities at home.""OM is so good with our kids. He'd never do anything to hurt them.""I'm not a bad mother while I'm seeing OM, I always make sure the kids are with our friends or you are home with them.""You should have known something wasn't right. Do I need to tell you everything?"

Some of my personal favorites:"I wish I could have you both.""If I go and hate it, can I come back in 6 months?""I know if I followed my head, I'd stay, but my heart just doesn't know what it wants.""If I were single, I'd be taking that bull by the horns.""I just need 10 years - no, maybe only one - to get this out of my system.""I'm not just choosing a man, I'm choosing a way of life."

It's been awhile since I though about these, but I'll play along.

"I don’t know"
"My relationship with the OM has nothing to do with our relationship"
"I'm going to take a nap"
"He's just a friend"
"Why are you so jealous?"
"Why are you upset all the time?"
"He will always be my friend"
"I forgot"
"Those emails you saw the OM singed "hugs and kisses" were just a joke. You know his sense of humor"
"I don’t want to try anymore"
"It's all your fault"
"Why should I take a STD test?"
"I didn’t think you would care"
"I don’t want you to talk to his wife anymore"
"He is a good man"
"I never said that"
"Go find someone else"
"Let's just be roommates"
"I can't tell you…you might become violent."
"I never really loved you"
"You're making this all up in your head"
"You always over analyze everything I say"
"I don’t want to talk about anything"
"He is always so positive. He never has anything negative to say"
"We are both (WS & OM) trying to decide if we should leave our spouses so we can be together"
"I have to say goodbye in person"
"What are you talking about, I always travel with my nicest (sexiest) night gowns"
All right time to stop…I quit laughing and started getting a little POed

I felt like I was dead...she makes me feel alive.We can redefine the concept of family.The custody arrangements can be how we want them to be...we don't have to get all legal.She listens to me.Sex was an afterthought.You can trust me about child support and visitation.

Let's see:She's just a friend
She's not even attractive, and she's dumb
You have an overactive imagination
You are paranoid
What? Now I'm not allowed to have friends?
The cell phone bill? It goes to work now in case I want to expense any calls.
Maybe getting married was a mistake
I'm not having an affair and have no intention if having one.
I just want to be in college again
I can't handle resposibility anymore
I don't feel like being married anymore
I want a divorce, but you'll always be my best friend.
I'm moving out but there is no other woman
I have no interest in dating anyone, I just want to be alone.
I need some more time, now I'm not sure what I want.

There were so many but this is my favorite.Me: Why did you chose someone like her to have an affair with?H: Well, you make me feel inferior. You are perfect and I've never felt like I deserved you. I feel like I won the lottery when I married you. I don't like feeling inferior and I'm tired of everyone always saying to me "how did you end up with HER"! On the other hand, OW makes me feel very superior! I'm younger than her, she's overweight, she drinks too much, etc. I feel very SUPERIOR and I love that feeling!Me: HUH?????? You kidding me, right? Ahhh, gotta love a WH who's deep in the fog, LOL!Oh, another favorite is "She's my best friend, she knows me so well, I can tell her anything".....nevermind the fact that the affair had only been going on for 2 MONTHS!

Angel,
He ACTUALLY SAID THOSE THINGS? WTF?!HiFi,
I didn't know you knew my wife? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] K

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Angelface:

Me: Why did you chose someone like her to have an affair with?H: Well, you make me feel inferior. You are perfect and I've never felt like I deserved you. I feel like I won the lottery when I married you. <hr></blockquote>ROFL. Towards the end of the A I got the whole "I never felt like I deserved a woman like you" speech too.

Kevco, uh-huh, he actually said those things! I didn't know whether to laugh, cry, or have him committed [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Hey fairydust, don't you just love the fog talk, LOL! By the way, how are the horses? I can't tell you how glad I am that you took that trigger from me!

WS"I'm overwhelmed"
"I Love and care for you, I'm just not In love with you"
"I don't know why, but I feel absolutely nothing"Wow I thought it was just me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Angelface:

Hey fairydust, don't you just love the fog talk, LOL! By the way, how are the horses? I can't tell you how glad I am that you took that trigger from me!<hr></blockquote>The horses are great! Glad to take that trigger for you. Plus I get that added benefit of knowing our xOW probably can't stand to hear anyone mention horses lol.

ok im late but ill play too.
besides all the ones already posted here...
WH's quotes
if things didnt go so far between me and her she would have made a great babysitter
( uh yeah ok NOT!)she just needed someone to talk to(before i found out)
you two would make great friendsand my personal favoritei liked her so much because she reminded me of you!HACK COUGH GAG..................what an insult[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: LuvOnTheRox ]

Well, my husband isn't even having an A (hasn't had one as far as I know), but I have some pretty great fog lines from him anyway:1. You'll be happier once we are divorced.2. I just don't know what we have together.
(Oh, just a 15 year marriage, 3 beautiful children, a church life we are both committed to, extended family that love us and we enjoy being with, a lovely home, 2 great careers....)3. You don't need a lawyer - it will just cost more, we can come to an agreement and get everything we both want. (Huh? Not to mention the fact that he IS a Lawyer! -so, no sh*t he doesn't want me to talk to one!)

Before the D-Day."I stayed at my freind house (OM) to get to your attention so that we could talk."After the D-Day."I have to get milk .... then do not come back 'till few days later."When I throw her stuff out of the house & kick her out from home, she bring it back and say ..."I live here too ..." [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Wiffle:
3. You don't need a lawyer - it will just cost more, we can come to an agreement and get everything we both want. (Huh? Not to mention the fact that he IS a Lawyer! -so, no sh*t he doesn't want me to talk to one!)<hr></blockquote>Haha! I heard that too when my H announced he wanted a divorce. He said "We can get a dissolution, no lawyer would even take a divorce case since we don't have kids. I will go ahead and keep the house. I'll get you an apartment and pay the rent for afew months until you get on your feet." Dream on! I found out I was pregnant afew days later anyway, so the no kids was pretty much invalid. I did talk to a lawyer (just in case I needed to protect myself) and he found it quite hysterical that "no lawyer would even take a divorce case with no kids involved." He thought it was even funnier that H was just planning on keeping the house we paid for and built together (and had tons of equity in!). H was completely stunned when he learned that I spoke to a lawyer.

oh yeah
(when i asked where he was because he didnt come hme all night)i was so tired i fell asleep in the truck
no peeps i didnt believe him

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by LuvOnTheRox:
oh yeah
(when i asked where he was because he didnt come hme all night)i was so tired i fell asleep in the truck
no peeps i didnt believe him<hr></blockquote>Hey, mine fell asleep in his truck too lol.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by fairydust:
Hey, mine fell asleep in his truck too lol.<hr></blockquote>Mine says ... "I drink medicine that I feel drowsy"After several arguments and LB ..."I could not get home because I am so sad"After D-day ..."" nothing like she was there the night before or several nights.

During my H's A he would write stuff down on various misc. pads of paper in his office, mingled in with his Music Biz stuff. Just a couple lines, but there were several throughout the 9 mos after Discovery.I'd go searching in his office and read them after he'd go leave to play at night (and we're not talkin "PLAY" guitar either). Well that's another subject entirely.Anyways, those pieces of paper were his personal "A" justification thoughts of what and why he was doing what he was doing. Here's some samples:

"What happened to us? ... I got angry and frustrated, so I did what I had to, she'll be just fine."
"This is good for her, I'm giving her room to grow, spread her wings"
"When she finds out there will be hell to pay"
"We were on a trial basis, she knew it and should expect this"
"You can only keep a promise for so long"
"No one leaves a marriage unless there is someone else"
"I distanced myself and left her alone so she could get use to taking care of herself by herself"

ughhhh ... Jo

"I could not get home because I am so sad" ???
I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this one!!!!! I work in a quiet office too!!!
Still laughing!!!Here's one that always hurt:"I love you like a brother"

Sorry. I'm hysterical over that one.I can picture myself stopped on the beltway causing a 5 mile back-up.Officer knocks on window.
I roll it down.
Officer: "What seems to be the problem sir? Why are you stopped."
Me: "I'm sad."Still LMAO!!!

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ROFLMAO!! Great Thread!
OW is NOT a bad PERSON!!!!Yes, we're just friends. But, No you can't meet her.She accepts me for who I am.I felt like I wasn't married anymore when I left. So I didn't think I was being unfaithful.I like her cuz she's a lot like YOU.We're just friends. I'm going to church with her, to help her with her relationship with God.[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Faith1 ]

LMAO! SAD??? Good Gawd ... what an excuse! Now I've heard 'em all.
Jo

These are freaking hilarious, hahahaHere is what I get..."we've just grown apart, honey""On the RARE occasion I talk to him, it's just to see if he's ok, and all!" (phone bill shows that she calls to see if he is ok, four times a day, every day - he must be a basket case, and in need of constant care)

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Faith1:
 We're just friends. I'm going to church with her, to help her with her relationship with God.<hr></blockquote>
Hahahaha, YES!!! My wife gave me the same line before I found out! She said she was trying to get him to go to church!! LOL What sacrifice! What an evangelist! Reaching for the lost!

Faith1...I had forgotten that ONE...You two are really a lot alike!Ug!

What's interesting is I remember reading the OW board back in the day, and seeing several conversations in which all OP seem to be convinced that fog is mythical and made up by the BS. The fog is actually the "real" person who has been hiding, suppressed and beaten down by the BS of course, for all of these years. The BS can't handle it anymore and must break free of his/her chains. Of course this for some reason requires the aid of the OP. But in reading posts like this, couldn't even an OP see how assinine this garbage is? If nothing else, a person would have to be in a fog to think anyone would actually believe this stuff "I couldn't get home because I was sad" Geez Louise! I seem to recall that they also didn't believe that affairs could be the result of mid life crisis, despite the fact that there were often 20 or more year age differences between the OW and MM. Of course the fact that Brandi is 21 and Frank is 54 has NOTHING to do with their affair. They are soulmates. The age difference is purely coincidental rofl. Then again, I doubt our xOW would never believe that H had depression (diagnosed). He was probably the life of the party doing shots with her at the college bars. 36 year old men always blend right in at those places.[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: fairydust ]

"I'm a father figure to her." [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] "Why do you keep doing this to yourself?" (said when BS's self-esteem is in the gutter)Before I found out: "Could you go out of your way a little to be nice to her? She is uncomfortable around you (DUH!), thinks you are in a different class."[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Persevering ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Persevering:
"I'm a father figure to her." [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <hr></blockquote>Accckkk... this one hit home!My ex had moved out, had OW#5 firmly in place, and then this neighbor of his who "was hurting" and "abused"... three marriages under her belt... thought of my (then)H as a "Father figure"... her kids spent the days with him, she came in his apt. unannounced... all very innocent you understand. The best part, they PRAYED together... oh, and this "Father Figure"... he was 41, for crying out loud!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Oh my gosh, you guys are cracking me up!!! Holy Moly...helping her relationship with God! These are too much!Oh Oh, I have another one...after D-day I told my H that I was going to call the OW and have a talk with her. His response: "Don't call her, you don't even know her. She hasn't done anything to you, I have. And you have NO right to interfere with her life". Just thinking about it makes me wanno go grab my frying pan.... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Mr Fix It:
Sorry. I'm hysterical over that one.I can picture myself stopped on the beltway causing a 5 mile back-up.Officer knocks on window.
I roll it down.
Officer: "What seems to be the problem sir? Why are you stopped."
Me: "I'm sad."Still LMAO!!!<hr></blockquote>Actually her driver license almost get suspended (no more point left) since WW has to rush between OM apt & my 2 D activity & got caught speeding. LOL !!!!

I can't believe that no one has posted this one yet . . ."We're soulmates!"or"It wasn't for the sex, we're in love."

Thought of another one.Affairs are no big deal really... everybody's having one.

Let's see....After he said that nothing was going on between them and he had no feelings for her."...at least she treats me like when we first dated." ....hmm that made me believe he was totally innocent. "No there was never any inappropriate contact, just a professional handshake after meetings.""It is possible to love two different people at the same time.""We always were clear that we didn't want to have sex. (This was after they wrote an explicit email detailing how they were going to make love to each other.)""We told each other that we were never going to leave our spouses.""I had to get past her looks"Ok my blood is starting to boil. I'd better stop for now.... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Shaz[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Shazam ][ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Shazam ][ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Shazam ]

I remember this one and I wish I have tape recorder to play it to OM.
"I could dump him (OM) anytime it was nothing".
LOL !!!!. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

OK,It's been posted already but bears repeating:"I love you but I'm not IN love with you" blach"Don't come to the office because there's no need to make HER feel uncomfortable" Yeah, like a give a rats a** about her comfort.

"She's just a friend"
"I don't know if I love you"
"I feel flat"
"I slept on Mark's couch"
"I need my life back again"
"I didn't have an extramarital affair"
"I need space"
"Just some guy coming to pick me up"
"I just want to be a part-time father"
"That call was from a guy who did the hay (4am)"
"she got dust in her contact lenses, that's why the solution bottle in the bathroom"
"I never wanted to marry you"
"I never wanted to have the children"
"You pushed me into everything"
"I want a divorce"
"I want to be a full-time father"
"I don't need anyone"
"I have been alone all this time with no support"
"It wasn't an affair because I had already decided the marriage was over"
"If we divorce it's got nothing to do with <ow>"

My XW (speaking about the OM):"We have a mystical connection to each other...I can't just walk away from that, can I?"Or how about this (OM was an old friend from high school):"I always loved him, I just didn't find out until now!"Maybe the best one:"You don't understand because you've never been in love like this..."
Did I mention they broke up six months ago?

Oh! More! More!"This is all about me, nothing to do with you. You're such a great guy.""You two [me and OM] would make such good friends." (After punching him, I doubt it [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] )"I can't help but think it was destiny somehow.""I think we're too materialistic." (The OM is pretty much penniless and I have a high $$ job - interesting way to justify leaving if you ask me.)Ugh - I'll undoubtedly collect some more this weekend - no wait - my new policy is to stop these kinds of insults by explaining my feelings - no LB'ing though.

I had to chime in here:After telling her I knew he was in Florida with her and spent the night in her room, "OM wanted to apologize for any misunderstanding and promises he won't contact me outside of work".Also, "our daughter will be happy as long as we are happy (after divorce)".After finding out she checked her voice mail at work 99 times in two months, "I needed someone to talk to".After finding out she went to meet him the day after we separated for a short time "I was upset about us and needed a friend".After she found out I had been recording her phone conversations and heard her tell him she was in love with him "I knew you were recording me and was just trying to hurt you".I could go on and on.sad dad

On d/d
WS: "She's just a friend" "She's a good friend"
(already pa'd, I was po'd and OW claimed to be prego'd) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] WS: OW is very sensitive. OW is very delicate. e-mail to BS:
OW: OW will take care of WS better than anyone. OW promised to WS:
OW: Money, travel, setup own business, etc. After WS moved out:
WS (talking to BIL): Did you know food is expensive? Now I have to pay for my own food. Every meal. WS: I gave you a check ($300.00), why can't you pay my credit card bill ($1200.00)? WS: I can't call you, my cell bill is too high.Later:
OW: "What we have is like a marriage. No an affair is better than a marriage."WS: I don't want to hurt OW's feelings. Much later:
OW: Your W can have you 4 days a week and I will settle for 3. That way no one will be left out.WS: I want to let her down gently. Before:
WS: OW says she is pregnant but she is ignorant about those things. WS has to tell her what it feels like to be pregnant. That is why the WS knows OW is pregnant. (This happened 3 times - by the 3rd time, he wasn't so knowledgable and OW was still ignorant? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) Hence the name Mrs. Rabbit!!! By the way, OW is 45 years old. Ignorant? Which one!??!?! WS: OW would never lie to me. Ow is an honest person. 
WS: You don't understand, the OW has not had sex in 3 years!!!! That's why she is soo tight it hurts![ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ][ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ][ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]

Classic lines,OW is a really good person.
Nothing will change with my family when we separate.
The OW is innocent. She did nothing wrong.
The OW reminds me of you.
Our physical attraction (mine and H's) is stricly physical. I'm still very attracted to you but that's it.
I need to find my happiness.
I lied about loving you all those years.
I hate you for pushing me to have the affair. It's all your fault.
If my life fails, I'll have you to blame.

"I want your financial security and his everything else."

"I want you as a friend."

"If it's a boy (definitely MY baby), I want to name him after OM."

(yesterday) "I don't want a divorce."
(today) "Can you help me move to my new apartment?"

Her: "I'm lonely."
Me : "Do you want me to come?"
her: "no."

-AD

[ June 30, 2002, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: AD ]

I have a couple I haven't seen here yet...This one,during the last week of separation,upon my discovery of the EA,but with complete denial of PA from WS."I couldn't tell you about my strong feelings for OW because I didn't want that to cloud our issues"
As though he were working on our M...This upon my confroting him with his rotten behavior and really why we separated [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] Mind you, we had been M 27 YEARS)"I only married you out of lust, I don't think I ever really loved you"
Wow, 27 years is a pretty good run for lust,huh?Love this one,after dday and before the fog lifted:Him:"She is kind and gentle and SHE never swears,such a good person" (and M to someone else)
ME: Well, I DO swear but I don't have sex with other people's H ,so I"M NOT a good person??!!"
Should have seen the look on his face..not much to answer back to that one!

How about - We're not married or we're not emotionally married or it's just on paper.When I ask H why he's left he says - I don't love you. It has nothing to do with OW.I'm still a good person.I have a still have a good relationship with God. (He goes to church and receives communion and did it while activly having PA.)He says the kids will be fine. He also says God would have to come down from heaven and tell him that the kids will not be ok.Do I want him to be unhappy for the rest of his life?What about free will? (By the way - I believe the free will part came into play when H chose to marry me and anyone can always choose to sin - that's what free will is all about - no one can force you to do what's right.)

OK, OK, just one more iteration of the one I posted above - and a fairly "fresh" one at that:Her: I had to leave, it was your decision NOT to leave.Me: Please explain one more time why either one of us HAD to leave?Her: You were abusing me - you kept threatening to leave.Me: Oh, now I get it. I was abusing you by threatening to leave, so you had to leave. Thanks, I understand perfectly now.

This is a great thread, its good to see that so many of us can find the humor (sarcastic as it may be) in the crazy things that WS says. So here are mine:- We need time to figure out who we are. (I wonder if OM helped find her, or was he looking for something else?)- You will never understand, we are soulmates, he ignited something inside of me that I have never felt before, we felt the same things at the same time, we had the same personalities, we are perfect for each other. (yes you are, that's why you feel so good right now)- I will always love him and be his best friend. (I hope someday I can find friends who will abandon me when things get rough)- My personal favorite #1. If it was any other man, I would find the things he does disgusting, but we are so right for each other that it doesn't matter. (hello, is anybody home?)- My personal favorite #2, comes from both W and OM "I never intentionally wanted to hurt anyone, we started out as friends and the romance just grew, I couldn't stop it, it was out of my control" (I like to call this one the emotionally and mentally defective defense.)

ok, here's the latest from the wacky world of H2Y and his WS W.... she says:"What are YOU doing to get me away from the OM?"hmmm.... putting the responsibility on H2Y, the BS, to end the affair.

I have heard many one-liners from my WH over the last four years:ABOUT OW:
"She's Wonderful"
"She talks to me"
"She's good with money"truth: if he is talking with her he can't talk to me. WH had to bail her out a few times.About me the BS:
"I don't hate you"
"I can't trust you"
"your bad with money"
The last one I got was "we are not compatible"truth:
trust me? LOL look who's talking!
bad with money, yes I was when he was never home. Now I am good with money. No crazy spending.Note: WH did not leave me to go to her for any great physical appearance.

One More:about me the BS:
"I enjoy sex with you more then her" but don't forget, she talks to him..LOL

Everyone,This is sooo very funny in a sad way. Does this thread confirm the FOG theory, or what? How pathetically foolish is all this illogic?Maybe you could make a FOGese checklist for WS.
Think of the time and frustration it would save.
BS posts a list of quotes from this thread on the refrigerator or gives the WS the list, and all the WS has to do is check off the appropriate FOGese for day.God bless you all for your patience and strength.Estes[ November 11, 2001: Message edited by: Estes49 ]

See? All of the above is proof positive that they all report to the same Mothership.Roswell's got nothin' on us.One more.Just today, in a conversation about <son's> debate assignment:Her: He needs your help to lay out a good argument for the position he's been assigned to defend.Me: Oh?Her: Yea, you know, you have always been the one who could defend any position, twisting around the facts to make your point - putting the twist on it to make it make sense.Me: (speechless - I resisted the temptation to say what I wanted to say)I swear I am not making this up.WAT[ November 11, 2001: Message edited by: worthatry ]

Let me see..from this WS's point of view..and from some of the things which I said..I am not saying all of your WS's were dealing w/ the same issues I was..but, some of them may be..FOO dysfunctions.and what they learned as a child..are the beliefs of themselves they brought into the marriage of themselves and what relationships were based on..I never loved you--I can in all honesty say I didn't love my stbxh when I married him..some of you may never understand this..and thats okay..yes I cared about him..I cared more about not hurting his feelings but,I didn't love him..I cared about pleasing everyone but myself..I knew before I walked down the isle that I was making a huge mistake and should have ran to the nearest exit..but I didn't..I looked out at all the work everyone else had done to put this wedding together in a very short time..and thought "how would it look to them?" this is not HIS fault I felt this way.. but it's how I felt..and I was so afraid of hurting someone else..and felt..well..I can do this..I can suffer so that he and everyone else can be happy..I did this my entire childhood..I didn't tell my mom my dad was abusing me..I kept my mouth shut..why?? so as not to hurt her..she loved this man..and it would devastate her to know the man she loved would sexually abuse her child..so I suffered in silence..I also didn't tell because it would destroy my dad..his career, his life..and I as a child couldn't face being responsible for that..I was protecting my siblings..from being w/out a father there all the time..from knowing our father was a criminal..so I choose to suffer alone..and I went into my marriage with those same thoughts..which was WRONG on my part..I am not saying all of your WS's have been where I have or have felt as I have..but for me..this was a truth..and one in which was very painful to realize and accept..that I hurt him (something I didn't want to do)..and my children even more by not speaking up years ago..I felt responsible for their happiness at the expense of my own..which wasn't fair to me, or them..-I never knew what love was--I really didn't understand what love was..Love is not sacrificing yourself to please everyone else..I did not
love myself..based on what I felt and thought about myself inside..so I could not truly love anyone else..or accept that anyone else could love me..
I need my independence-Another way of saying..I am an adult..and I want to be treated as such..with due respect as you also want--
I am not a piece of property to be owned..I am a seperate individual from you..just because we are married does not mean I am just a "wife/husband" but I have many other aspects that make me who I am..just as
you have many other aspects that make you who you are..
I am a wife, mother, friend, child of God, employee, student, sister, cousin, grandchild, niece..ect ect..You just don't get it- you don't understand-and they are probably correct..you don't truly understand what they are 'feeling' inside themselves and why..you know what you are feeling inside.
He's just a friend-someone who treated me with respect as a person, who actually listened to me when I talked and didn't turn
a deaf ear because what was being said has been said over and over and being completely ignored as if I never said anything at all. and sounding like I was nagging to get you to understand what I was feeling inside..I felt like I was dead-I did feel as if I was dead inside..the more I denied how I truly felt..I was killing off the feelings God gave me to feel..I was not living a full life..
This has nothing to do with you-In reality it has alot to do with how the WS feels inside about themselves..and things they may be dealing with..and the only thing it really has to do w/ the BS isn't anything personal..it's just have not meet WS's needs..for whatever reason..
They may have been meeting all of your needs...but, apparently you weren't meeting theirs, and they went about letting you know the wrong way because nothing else seemed to working..and it's this lack of your needs being met now that you are maybe for the first time seeing how the WS has felt inside for many years..and either never told you..or you ignored what they were saying..so maybe it's NOT just the WS's living in the fog..but also the BS that is living and has lived in the fog for so long..and the fog is just now being lifted on both sides???

I love this thread - so much material I've got!"Why don't you tell your family that we just 'grew apart'?" (In one discussion where she was trying to convince me to do this so that a possible future reconciliation would be easier for her - recall she wants to "try OM out" for a while and come back if he's not her type after all - gag.)"I know I could be happy with you - I really do. I just don't know if I want to spend the rest of my life with you." (Pardon? Someone send in a fogese translator!!)"I know if I leave you'll take it as rejection, but it isn't that at all." (Again, she wants to keep it friendly so she can come waltzing back to her friendly neighbourhood doormat - me - or at least the old me.)As for "I need my independence" - I've heard this one too - ThornedRose, your comments are correct, but one mustn't read too much into these words - if a WS is using them to jusify a different relationship, one has to ask how they expect to get independence after falling into the OP's arms - trading stability for instability in my W's case.As for "He's just a friend" - certainly the OP is a friend, but a friend at the expense of another friend in my W's case - she admits we're best friends even. So who cares about their friendship now - it was irreversably put in jeapordy by the decisions made by both parties - how I can I feel sympathy about that?As for "This has nothing to do with you" - Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Sorry. This is one I can't buy. The feelings that the WS are feeling are indeed their own - but saying that it's nothing personal is saying to me that the whole thing, being internalized in the other party, must be all about selfishness on some level. Or it would seem to be a way to justify the pain inflicted on the BS - to accept blame themselves and hope to heck that it will reduce their rightful guilt. Truly the highest form of fogese as far as I can tell.

Re-reading my last post, it was insensitive to comments made by ThornedRose - I do apologize. Today's been a good day between WS and I, but pent-up frustration has to release somewhere, I guess. If I keep it out of my M, maybe I'll have some hope.

TR,I hear what you have said, and I believe that the situation is 100% true for you and certain other WS. Such childhood experiences have a crippling effect on people's ability to form healthy relationships. What happens to the innocent child carries over into adulthood with awful consequences. In fact, my DIL comes from a similar background, and I feel very sad for her past experiences and for the suffering she is feeling now as she is trying to deal with the consequences of her choices. We always knew her behavior (pre- and during the affair) was a result of her problems and weaknesses (many of which were NOT her own doing) and love her anyway. She still feels that she has to earn her own mother's love and approval, the same mother who overlooked her abuse as a little girl.In fact, an A is not the healthy way to deal with marital dissatisfaction. I suggest that having an A is a clue to WS, BS, and family that something is amiss in the emotional health of the WS. And I hasten to state that the roots of the problems may have been out of the WS's control. I also acknowledge that some BS are abusive, addictive, sociopathic personalities themselves, and that's a huge issue where the BS has dangerous, major mental health problems. However, an A only makes problems worse, not better. Having justifiable reasons to want unmet ENs to be met is not the same as having excuses to have an A.How I wish my DIL had dealt with her emotional problems BEFORE she instigated an A and devastated my son and grandson and caused permanent harm to the whole family, including herself. My son had been loving her as she was, messed up emotionally, accepting that living with her mood swings was just part of loving her.Only after months of reflection, thousands of pages read, and much prayer, has our family reached the point that we can LAUGH at the statements on this thread. For so long, we cried, as many of the BS here have cried. We have to see some humor here to replace the despair. Isn't it so sadly ironic that we've all "been there, heard that" - dozens of us, dozens of different circumstances - same words.I hope that you are learning to accept that you are, and have always been, lovable simply because you are a valuable human being. As you really come to believe that, you can build the kinds of relationships you deserve. Best wishes, Estes

You folks are a hoot! I couldn't have asked for more on this thread.As for YOU, TR, this is supposed to be a FUN POST (as I think that, I have a crooked smirk on my face and my tone is playful....none of which can come across in the text- it's just a joke). I agree that if there are serious issues, such as yours, that pretty much ALL of these "scripted quips" may well be true and valid. But a vast majority of the WS out there have not suffered as you have. Please don't take the light hearted nature of some of these posts as invalidating your feelings. I truly CAN see what your saying in light of your past, and it really makes sense to me.JR-
<blockquote>quote:<hr> "I know I could be happy with you - I really do. I just don't know if I want to spend the rest of my life with you." <hr></blockquote>Yeah, that one has boggled my mind since it was uttered. I was absolutely dumbfounded, and for the first time in a VERY long time, I was speechless. WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT?!?!??Kev

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, LOL!!!!!!kev, STOPPIT! You're making me laugh my a** off here! I got most of the same lines."She's just a friend." (Uh, sure ... I always have sex with *my* friends.)After telling her everything about me, our marriage, our problems, forwarding my email to H: "You have no right to delve into her private business!" (Okay. Do I have a guarantee of reciprocity on that - ??)"She offered to gracefully bow out." (Sort of like she "gracefully" bowed in, eh?)And, totally inapropos of nothing, as to why we couldn't stay together: "If we had kids, you'd let them run around in filthy diapers!" (Wow. I am a cat breeder, and I somehow manage to keep the litter boxes clean and the rest of the house in relatively decent order. Hm ... where did *this* come from?)"One of the things that attracted me to her was that she got her cats from a no-kill shelter." (Definitely a reason for sainthood if I've ever heard one.)"If you and I hadn't been married, we might have stayed together." (Wow. You made this decision in a period of what, a week after you met her?)And of course, my favorite, "I never had an affair!" and "I did NOT cheat on you." AND ... "I did not have a relationshio with (THAT WOMAN) her."And of course, when I mention all of these things that he said, he tells me, huffily, "I NEVER said that!"belld, ROTFLMAO!!!!!

BellD-
<blockquote>quote:<hr> "I did not have a relationship with (THAT WOMAN) her." <hr></blockquote>HOLY COW!!!! The (ex)president was in the FOG! It's all clear to me now, I KNEW there was a reason I didn't vote for him..... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ALSO ROTFLMAO!
K

Thought I'd add in what a good friend of mine heard when he was dumped by his fiancees (happened twice) for OM. Keep in mind my friend is very attractive, smart, successful, fun etc. "He is nothing like you and I'm not sure why I'm attracted, but I can't stay away. He drinks too much, possibly has a drug problem, doesn't have a job and sometimes doesn't shower for days. I feel we have a karmic connection." Fiancee #2 "I don't like the kind of music you listen to in the car."
My best friend is a very repentant former WS and a staunch believer in FOG. She asked me "How could you sit there and listen to the c**p I was spewing? Why didn't you smack me in the head and tell me I sounded like a mental patient?" The answer was simple. She never woudl have believed me. She even had herself firmly entrenched in revisionist history that I knew not to be true, because I was there lol.

Here is a helpful hint for understanding "fogese" that I got from a very good therapist. It takes some practice, but you can do it. What you do is to take what the fogese speaker is saying and either a) use it's opposite literal meaning; or b) interpret it as a reflection of how the WS is feeling about themselves. E.G., "It has nothing to do with out marriage," really means "It has everything to do with what's going on in our marriage." "It's none of your business" becomes "This IS your business."For an example of a WS reflecting upon themselves (this is particularly true when they are criticizing the spouse), you might translate the following, e.g. "You never have time for us," really means, "I don't put enough time into our marriage." "You're the most selfish person I've ever met" means "I'm the most selfish person in the world right now."Try it - it *does* work!belld

Ok, let's expand on Bell's theory/fact. In my case when the WS babbled I said ok, yea me too. WS: BS is at fault for the A. If I knew you loved me that much, I would have never left. BS: Yea, me too.*************WS: I can't pay my bills and live out on my own.BS: Yes, me too.*************WS: I need my own space. I need time alone. You are always calling me. BS: Yea, me too.*************WS: Why are you always saying, yea me too?BS: I don't know. *************WS: You don't understand me. BS: Yea, me too.*************WS: You sure sound stupid being soo agreeable and
saying 'yea, me too'. BS: Yes, you do. ************Note: I was in plan B when these type of discussions (if you could call it that) took place. Most of what is here happened and then some. 
L.[ November 12, 2001: Message edited by: Orchid ]

"HOLY COW!!!! The (ex)president was in the FOG! It's all clear to me now, I KNEW there was a reason I didn't vote for him..... "Kevco, your statement reminded me of something my WH emailed me the other day. It was in relationship to our pending divorce. He said "We are not the Rockefellers" meaning don't take all his money. I feel like responding "Yeah, were more like the Clintons or Kennedy's" LOL

Sorta building on belld's post just above, and seriously now, I believe we BSs CAN take some comfort when the fog horn sounds these alien gems. (Maybe we should think of them as a malfunction in the alien's universal translator.)What I mean is that whenever we hear this blather, we can rest assured that the Mothership is still in control. It's very hard to adopt this mindset when we're hurting so badly, but it gets easier over time and can actually be quite therapeutic - at least it is for me now.OK, just ONE more quote:"I've only lied to you once."WAT