I was the first other woman! - Marriage Builders® Forums

Marriage Builders

I am so upset that my guy has cheated on me, but should I be suprised? 12 years ago I was the other woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I know, so how can I fight to get him back, when I am to blame for his first marriage troubles?
Of course having been there when he lied to her, I knew he was lieing to me. But I still love him. He is the only man I have ever loved. He has done so much for me and now I feel terrible that his A may be my fault for not meeting his needs in the first place. We never had a s** problem but other areas are just as vital and now I see where I went wrong. What do I do next?
We have a nine year old son.

Does he have affairs because his needs are not being met or because it is a way of life with him? My father, for example, goes through women like toilet paper, but not because his needs aren't being met, but because he likes variety and this is a way of life with him. He has been married and divorced 7 times. Is this a pattern with your H?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by richsgrl4evr:
I am so upset that my guy has cheated on me, but should I be suprised?<hr /></blockquote>No, you should expected it. If he is willing to cheat on his W what make you special ? Don't tell me it is love.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />12 years ago I was the other woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I know, so how can I fight to get him back, when I am to blame for his first marriage troubles?<hr /></blockquote>What goes around comes around ... This is the price that you have to pay ....
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Of course having been there when he lied to her, I knew he was lieing to me. But I still love him. He is the only man I have ever loved. He has done so much for me and now I feel terrible that his A may be my fault for not meeting his needs in the first place. We never had a s** problem but other areas are just as vital and now I see where I went wrong. What do I do next?
We have a nine year old son.<hr /></blockquote>I don't know if other will have the stomach to help you out ... I almost skip your post. However since you want to save your current M you should start learning MB. Do like any BS do ... buckle up and ride the coaster of your life.

-rh-

Gosh, I almost want to say shame on you redhat, but in a way, you're right. Just not very sensitive.

Ma'am, he's right. You should have expected this. However, you are married now, and the question is: what do you want to do about it? Do you want to try to save your marriage? Start reading. Read EVERYTHING you can get your hands on and use what's applicable to your situation. MarriageBuilders is a pretty good start, also check out Peggy Vaughan and her information: www.dearpeggy.com. She has an organization called BAN (Beyond Affairs Network), check and see if they have one in your area. Some places are better organized than others, but it's a good place to start.

Find out what is causing your husband to cheat. You say that you knew you weren't meeting vital needs: start meeting them NOW. Don't delay; but understand that there is no guarantee that anything you're going to start doing will actually save your marriage. How did you find out he was cheating~ is the affair outed? What does he say he wants? Where are you at now (as far as your relationship is concerned)?

Also, if you're not already, then you two need to start doing things together. If the two of you are readers, then check out The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. It's intended for the two of you to read together (very short chapters)~ it's good no matter where you are in life, but if you're off the beaten path, it's a great way to get back where you need to be... together.

Maybe it's because I'm not fortunate enough to have been a perfect spouse, but I don't believe that anyone is in a position to throw stones... so I'm certainly not going to throw any at you. I've been a BS and a WS and I realize that we're all here for the same reason: to better ourselves and our marriage. If that's what you want to do (and it appears that it is) then more power to you and I'm here to help! I'm sure others will lend you the support and sympathy (along with the occassional 2x4 to the head, MB style) that you need, too.

[ March 22, 2003, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: TheCalypso ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by TheCalypso:
Gosh, I almost want to say shame on you redhat, but in a way, you're right. Just not very sensitive.<hr /></blockquote>I don't sugar coat my response ... She has to realize what lies ahead of her. She better get ready ... as long as she want to save her M, she come to the right place.

-rh-

I don't have any problem with not sugarcoating, but I do have a problem with sanctimonius Bull sh**. Redhat used this woman's misfortune to kick someone when they are down, definitely shame on him....somehow guy I doubt you'd do that to someones face if you could count on a right hook to the chops in response. When you get your sainthood then come back and pass judgement on people, in the meantime maybe you should spend a little more time in front of your own mirror.

As for richs grl, you do have some serious problems here, and indeed that your H has had at least 2 affairs now is not encourageing. It would be useful for you to revisit your affair with him and try to fully understand what happened then, as well as what happened now, you do this so you can fully understand the nature of your H. In the meantime MB gives you a framework to operate in while chaos reigns, so read everything, ask for advice, and proceed with a PLAN, not just bouncing off the walls. And do not make choices out of fear, or neediness.

How your marriage started (and we really don't know all the details, and there are a variety of factors, some good some bad) is one of the more difficult paths (statistically speaking) to marital success, but they usually fail in a short period...12 years is a long time (assuming he has been faithful, and that needs to be determined) and pretty well overcomes how it started, but does not negate who he is. Most first marriages (that fail) don't make it 12 years as well.

There is no magic formula, just a lot of hard work, and patience...and you will need to post a lot more info (don't hold back) to recieve any specific advice.

[ March 23, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LurkingAbout:
I don't have any problem with not sugarcoating, but I do have a problem with sanctimonius Bull sh**. Redhat used this woman's misfortune to kick someone when they are down for his own pleasure, definitely shame on him....somehow guy I doubt you'd do that to someones face if you could count on a right hook to the chops in response. When you get your sainthood then come back and pass judgement on people, in the meantime maybe you should spend a little more time in front of your own mirror.<hr /></blockquote>This will be my last post on this thread ... create a new one if you feel like it to bash me and I will let others to speak for me.

I had been called named in this MB but this is the first time I am being called "sanctimonius Bull sh**". I had been accused of alot of thing but this is the first time someone thought that I am a self proclaimed " your sainthood ".

Who judging who in here ?. One thing you are right I spend too much time in MB and try to picked up since Orchid is busy with her own. One thing you are assured that I won't look at the mirror ... I know who I am and I never let anyone tell me otherwise. I will go to pull weeds in my garden instead.

-rh-

richsgrl4evr. There is a lot of help her on saving marriages. It's not easy as you already know. All I can say is get ready for the pain of your life if you've not already felt it.
For the record, only 5% of marriages to the OP last. When it's built on an A, it's usually built on lies and fantasy.
Choosing to be married and stay faithful is a choice.It is a choice to love as well. If the couple are willing to work on it, seek counseling together and turn to God, then there is a chance. But the OW is going to give it all she has to keep him on her side.
Counselors say past history is an indicator of future behavior. So unfortunately, you've already seen his behavior pattern.
Sadly, the OW always thinks she is special and he won't do this to her. It just isn't so!
Women are viewed by some cheaters as nothing but temporary thrills! When one becomes familar, which all do in a relationship that last for some time, they begin to look for newness then. That may have been his Ex's only fault we becoming the familar and off he went. Same with you. And now you know there is no way you can become the new!
Some men stay married for life, but have multiple A's. I say unless he changes, then what is there for you to want?
I suggest serious counseling for your H! From one BS here, you can go to counseling until hell freezes over, but it won't change him unless he is going and willing to change.
All the talk about a BS changing is just so much crap in some marriages. I know BS's who have bent over backwards to please their spouse, but there is a character flaw in some WS's that never changes. Now it's time for you to find out who he really is!
Let's face it. Have you changed since marrying him? Quit doing the things that helped you snag him to begin with?
Of course people do change after marriage and especially when children come along. There are added responsibilities that didn't exist to get in your way when you were in an A.
Now it's the other side of the coin. You want a domestic, loving, faithful H, but what was he before you married him?
I do feel sorry for you. Because the pain is unbelievable. I also am not trying to bash your past. But I do believe in God and he says this type of relationship will never gain blessings.
People reap what they sow. And God doesn't bless those who are disobedient. But the good is, one should rather suffer here than the hereafter!
Can you save your marriage? Possibly. But as Dr.Phil says, you'll have to do an autopsy on the whole relationship from beginning to now.
All people have flaws that need working on. It's not just the BS that needs to find out how to meet EN's. The WS is certainly not meeting your EN's with an A.
I have problems with the fine line between becoming the most wonderful wife in the world and having the WS think they've got it made. Look at the instructions! We are to examine ourselves, find our flaws, start meeting needs we may have missed or gotten too busy with life to coddle them, and what do they see?
Gee, I'm cheating and she's kissing my butt! So they may feel they can have their cake and eat it to. After all, now the truth is out and what is happening? BS is groveling to keep them!
There can be no saving a relationship until the WS is willing to admit wrong, break all contact with OP, and start a plan to make marriage good.
How many will do this if the BS is constantly apologizing for their mistakes and taking the blame?
I say not many! The work is cut out for marriages. You must find a way to be his everything, without being taken for granted and a doormat.
Quite frankly, my WS told me it was all fantasyland and he realized what he was giving up for that adventure!
And then there is the possibility your WS is just a sex addict. Many admit the sex at home is better with S, and yet they still cheat. Because it's the chase that interest them, not the actual conquering. And the feeling of newness that can't be maintained in a monogamous relationship. Of course, while the sex may be no better or even as good, there is that tingle of new skin!
We all know what that felt like when we were first with our S's.
Sheesh, this is long, but I'm just spilling out the things I've seen and lived.
We can all improve ourselves, but unless the WS does so as well, it's fruitless for saving the marriage unless you are willing to live in an open marriage and turn a blind eye to keep these jerks!
Where does your WS stand on this issue? It would be helpful if you can give some of his side?
God bless, LouLou

who is judgeing who? That's easy, thought it was obvious, I am judgeing your response to rich...judgeing behaviour is what we all do, including you....

Hey anyone can have a bad day, but sanctimonis bs is sanctimonious bs, wherever the smell is found, your reply to rich was not helpful, undoubtedly made her feel worse...was that your goal? Doesn't make you a bad guy, but displaced anger is displaced anger, and you owe her an apology...let me ask you, is this how you treat all bs? or only ones whose history annoys you.

In any event if you don't like sugarcoating don't whine when you receieve uncoated feedback back.

btw...I edited out the part about for his own pleasure, I don't know why you posted as you did to her, probably displaced anger pretty much..my apologies for that part.

[ March 23, 2003, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]

I don't see Red Hat comments as harsh or sugar coating the situation. The truth is simply the truth, which he pointed out in a precise, and consise straight arrow fashion.

Sometimes the issue is simply shoot down the messanger as in this particular situation here.

The message of that truth perhaps is not to appealing to digest but faced is much more kinder and healing than to be in a state of delusion, confusion, and long lasting heart wrenching pain.

Truth is always much kinder than to believe, entertain a lie and false beliefs. Lies, and false beliefs can cause great infections to one' soul. Truth is the medicine which applied stings for a moment but produces long and genguine healing/relief.

If her man is a serial cheater then that is most serious and simply the truth and facts about him.

To forewarn her of the pending possible roller coaster of hearbreaking complications that accompany living with a person of a maladapted character/reputation is humane and honest.

Outstanding issues have to be resolved and faced at some point otherwise how will healing/rebuilding happen.

Fact: Interference with life universal prinicples delivers it's own consequences one way or another and shows no partiality to none of us.

Fact: To interfer and destroy another person marriage and family to begin with is very serious and comes with it's own legacy consequences/weighty complications.

Fact: Where was this person compassion, respect for the orginal martial bonds between two people. None. There certainly wasn't any regard for the harm they deliberately caused through their willful, knowing complicity to enter a destructive form of triangluation.

Fact: The betrayal act is perhaps one of the worst magligant assaults inflicted on another human being.

Fact: There are very destructive people and there are not so destructive people.

Fact: There can be healing with the correct heart's contrition and rebuilding.

Fact: We all have committed wrongdoings in some fashion or another. Taking responiblity and self personal ownership is the correct and right thing to do. How else do we correct our course in life, grow up and make ammends.

Truth brings: Freedom, liberty, maturity and contained in that specfic formula although temporarily unpleasant. Provides a honest and stable framework to resolve major unresolved issues.

As for the "judgement issue application" this text is often taken so out scripturally out of context. If one were to never apply making a functional judgement then there is no right or wrong, bad or good. The person responding to Red Hat statements with a no judgement bias could also be construded as well as making very serious judgement about him.

Red Hat had pointed out some truths to myself which were accurate truths rightly applicabale to my situation, which I asked for to begin with,needed and wanted to face. I am most grateful to him for taking the time to help me out of my own fog, confusion, with hearing the truth.

I knew I had some blind spots which I couldn't entirely see on my own. Our minds/hearts and false belief systems we pick up along the way of life can play all sorts of games and causes needless suffering. My clouded and wounded emotions were misleading and taking me off course of my personal well being.

I appreciate the redirection with the truth as a reliable navagational compass.

WOW, what strong reactions! I think redhat did state the truth, however, all that is neither here nor there right now. She has a 12 year marriage and a 9 year old son. Sure, she should have known this would happen to her, but that is beside the point at this late date. I think her marriage deserves the same consideration as we afford the others around here.

mayflower, wonderful, well stated points! Thank you for stating it so eloquently.

[ March 23, 2003, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

Rich's girl,
You have come to the right place. You will find an abundance of help at MB.

You and I are here at MB for different reasons, but we WERE both involved in A's. I cheated on my exhusband with a married man, and you cheated with a man who was married. I don't know if you were married or single then. I am now a divorced woman, seeking a restoration of my marriage to my now exH. I left OM before the divorce was final. To be very honest and direct, I deduced at the end of the A that OM was a serial cheater, and I could already see signs he was looking/flirting around, and lying. Furthermore, I still loved my exH and CLEARLY saw what I'd lost. I FINALLY wised up and ended it with OM, and repented. I still want to make things right, in God's eyes. It's too late for my exH at this point.

You are here as your present husband is NOW betraying you. You are, like me, a former WS. However, like Melodylane said, we have to look at what you have now, no matter how you got there. You're married to him, and you have a child with him. That's the important part, now. You're right though when you wisely said that you should have expected this. We always think our love is more 'special', I suppose.

You will find great support here, and the joy/learning process of reading people's responses to your situation. Many people will react to you as a former WS, but that's understanable. I have had a few people lash out at me, but I always know that I can learn something from their words, even if they sting. I realize that they are helping me see the truth of the hideous thing I did. The saying "What goes around, comes around" frightens me in light of my actions. One of my staunchest supporters is a BS, who has helped me a lot in seeing the other side.

God bless you for trying to save your marriage. I'm sorry it turned out this way for you. Many marriages DO survive infidelity. There are many ladies here who have spouses who were/are serial cheaters, but they manage to keep their marriage together. It does take two to make it work, no matter what the situation.

Please continue posting here, and read here, too. This will be very helpful, I think. I wish I could offer more advice to you right now. Other than keep posting, and follow Harley's principles-I don't know what to add.

Oh, one more thing. You said that you think the A might be your fault, for not meeting his needs. Please, that is ridiculous. Don't blame yourself. He was selfish in having an affair, just as I was. No one gets all of their needs met. Not getting needs met doesn't give us permission to go out and cheat. Quit blaming yourself! You say you see where you went wrong, so why not work with your husband to save things in your marriage. Does he still see OW? Insist on no contact, and work on your marriage. I'm sure it can work out, if you both want it to work out.

Take care,
HP

[ March 23, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]

well, it is no surprise people have bias, and for those who think redhats advice was delivered with concern for the poster, and have no issue with it... to each their own, but I suspect his response was felt in a hurtful negative way that is of little value to the poster, so one has to wonder at why his points were made that way...

hoping people here have the stomach to help her....hmmm...is that how all bs are welcomed?

IMO her history with her H, and how the marriage started is irrelevant as to helping her...what goes around comes around, what kind of new age baloney is that. Our lives are what we make them...period. The only issue of interest here re her history is to point out (as many of us did in a civil fashion) that she needs to consider his behaviour (and hers for that matter) as part of the total picture. I remind all of you (at this point), we know absolutely nothing about her H, or how his previous marraige ended, or her role (if any) in that failure....lots of assumptions being made here.

What I see so far, is an unhelpful focus on her pre-marital history with this man. Lots of so-called good marriages started out with deceit as well, we have several posters elsewhere dealing with lies re their sexual history to people they married, which have come to light now. It is also fair to say, that in my experience, people regularly misrepresent themselves when pursueing marriage, concealing salient facts about themselves, their feelings, their psychology, addiction issues, anger issues, foo issues, for the purpose of getting someone to marry them. It would seem deceit and lies abound in the pursuit of relationships. There are procedures to deal with such things, and assesments to be made for sure, but her circumstances are no different than anyone elses in that regard (deciet and lies in the marriage) and she should not feel singled out for that because of her particular deceit and lies...In any event, I for one would like to hear a lot more detail about how their pre-marital relationship went, what red flags were there, and then use that information to give helpful feedback now.

mayflower... Sometimes the issue is simply shoot down the messanger as in this particular situation here.

la...the messenger is unscathed, his irresponsible message delivery was shot down, as it should be. Others delivered the same message in a much more helpful way (ie without attacking the self-worth of rich).

may..Fact: Interference with life universal prinicples delivers it's own consequences one way or another and shows no partiality to none of us.

la..that applies to all marriages...marriages end for many reasons due to violateing universal principles, including entering marriages that should never have happened. The assumption that a marriage that followed from 1 (or both) person meeting while married is false. Such marriages do occur, and they do flourish, it is not the cirumstances that determines marital success, it is the 2 people in it. However, since affairs often involve predatory, and/or dysfunctional individuals, the risk is higher than it would be from a wider selection of prospective mates.

May...Fact: To interfer and destroy another person marriage and family to begin with is very serious and comes with it's own legacy consequences/weighty complications.

la...No one has the power to destroy anything, (unless someone murders another). Marriages end because one (or both) parties in it no longer want to continue it. The implication is this woman should now consider herself hopeless cause of her past, that is not true. The future is unwritten, it will be whatever she and her H want it to be...but part of that requires they understand themselves, and how they fit together, if they do that practicing radical honesty, they will be fine divorced or recovered...the problem is few are willing to do the work true radical honesty requires.

may...Fact: Where was this person compassion, respect for the orginal martial bonds between two people. None. There certainly wasn't any regard for the harm they deliberately caused through their willful, knowing complicity to enter a destructive form of triangluation.

la...We don't know anything mayflower, you cannot make such assumptions without facts. This person may indeed be an aggressive predator, if so, that fact about her will play into how her life goes. She may very well have believed some representations made by the om concerning his desire to end his marriage, and in fact he did marry her (that is unusual in itself statistically). If in fact the om was reluctant to leave his previous marriage, and she conspired and cajoled to confuse him, and pull him away...well that indeed will have consequences. The point is we don't know anything at this point.

may...Fact: The betrayal act is perhaps one of the worst magligant assaults inflicted on another human being.

la...Not even close, could name a dozen worse assaults with little effort. The fact is relationships are leaps of faith, they can end any time, and apparently do more often than not. We are all psychologically equipped to survive such events, if we want to. Being betrayed comes in many forms besides affairs, and there are plenty of marriages where betrayal is a daily event in the form of verbal/physical/emotional abuse... that is just as bad IMO. Nor is it malignant, bs typically want to make this about them, but the majority of time it is about the ws, and had little or nothing to do with the bs. Betrayal requires intent, what happens more often is the bs is injured by negligence. The ws did not set out to "betray", they acted in their interests (which is what all human beings do), anb the bs was injured collaterally. I personally would much prefer to be injured that way, then by someone I trusted deliberately targeting me for malicious reason.

may...Fact: There are very destructive people and there are not so destructive people.

la...I agree, and learning how to tell that is not easy, they come in all shapes and sizes, all behaviours and temperaments. Ws may or may not be destructive, depends on the whys. Likewise a bs trying to save the marriage may or may not be destructive, depends on the whys. (if they are obsessive, and trying to continue a dysfunctional co-dependentcy they are destructive..for example).

may...Fact: There can be healing with the correct heart's contrition and rebuilding.

la...I agree, but would add true healing only comes with the embracing of, and application of radical honesty.

may..Fact: We all have committed wrongdoings in some fashion or another. Taking responiblity and self personal ownership is the correct and right thing to do. How else do we correct our course in life, grow up and make ammends.

la..I agree.

may...Truth brings: Freedom, liberty, maturity and contained in that specfic formula although temporarily unpleasant. Provides a honest and stable framework to resolve major unresolved issues.

la..I agree, but I think you are actually describing radical honesty.

Hopefully this poster will be treated the same as any other bs, and not with an I told you so mindset.

Hi Richsgirl,

Welcome to MB. Your past is now making it hard to deal with your future. That often happens to many of us. If you want to get the best help from MB you need to realize that your past is what contributed to your current issue. You have the opportunity to see both sides of this A fence and realize that pain exists on both sides. Harsh piece of reality and often hard to swallow. However, if you want to heal and move forward, we can help. I certainly know that if the OW I dealt with came back here with an attitude willing to work, I would hope others could help her. I know I could not.....not right now at least (the OW I dealt with is affectiontely called: PBR (Psyco Babble Rabbit). You see that is the kind of OWs some of us have to put up with so if you were one, the category you were in is not a good one. However, you can heal and move forward.

Putting all that aside, how can we help you and your family now move forward? Realize that something major is affecting your H and his former W and now even you are not the real source. So proper identification of it is vital to dealing with the real issue. It may be painful and long but join the crowd, most of us have been there & done that.

Welcome to MB and please continue reading not just the posts but the books and concepts section above.

Please allow me to post a few comments to Lurking About:

Please excuse LurkingAbout. This one has a few unresolved anger issues with a lot going on in this poster's life right now.

LA, you know better than this. Redhat among others have been here a long time and have just as much a right at staight talk as you have. Now if you'd like to step out to another post just for you, I will create one but really show your good side not your stupid one. ok? There are a lot that read your posts (I know you like to hear that) and you have shared some insightful comments over these past few months. See I know you have it in you to be wise.

This post belongs to a new member and deserves to be kept that way. Come on, let's give you your own thread to vent. By the way..... oh I'll address that piece later.

Thanks for reading my post. Richsgirl, read up, you have a lot to learn here. We are not always this angry..... we can be quite humorous also <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LurkingAbout:


hoping people here have the stomach to help her....hmmm...is that how all bs are welcomed?

<hr /></blockquote>That was pretty much my problem with it, too, LA.

As for the rest, yes, God does say that these kinds of relationships are not richly rewarded. You DO reap what you sow. But, that doesn't mean her marriage is doomed, either. Sometimes the reaping isn't destruction, but LOTS of heartache and 10 (or more) times the effort that a marriage built on faithful grounds would require... which we should ALL know about (ws OR bs) because we've all had to scrap our "faithless foundations" to rebuild (or in my case, build for the first time) a faithful one.

Bottom line, we may not like how she came to be "Mrs. Rich" but she is. And to say things like maybe others will "have the stomach to help" her is just cruel. Basically it tells her she's not worth the helping because she was once the OW. And that's not true. Not ONE of us here are any better than any other ~ we're just all different, all dealing with different demons, so to speak. Personally, I applaud her for coming here to work on her marriage and not immediately running her husband over with her Mercedes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey richs girl,

Hugs to you - I'm sorry you're in this place right now. When love for somebody is replaced by lies and OP's, it hurts no matter who or what you think you are. Hugs again.

Also, your past doesn't have to dictate your future. You don't have to be a victim. If you love him and want your marriage to work then you can succeed. Just take a few moments to think about what his needs are, what you need to do to rekindle his flame for you and then work on it. It's taken a lot of neglect to get your M where it is, it's gonna take a lot of work to get it out. But remember, he has more with you than he does anybody else :-)

Get that plan A working girl, and get your love for him driving you everyday to be a better you. Come on, let's have Richs Girl 4 ever staying right there :-)

hugs again....

I am so upset that my guy has cheated on me,
Are you married to him or just living together?

huh, that's a good question chris. What about it rich, I think we need more details of your circumstances to be helpful. Commonlaw marriage (essentially long term cohabitation with agreed monogamy) is still a relationship, but it does raise the issue of what is his agenda...and what blinders you may be wearing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I am so upset that my guy has cheated on me, but should I be suprised? <hr /></blockquote>The verbage used here is enlightening. I think that the title of "husband" would have been used if they were indeed married. Also, the poster has not returned and responded to the replies on her thread. (It makes it even more suspect to me.)

I would have been tempted to respond in the same fashion as redhat (had I responded to the intitial question).

I have been known to not "sugarcoat" my replies here. I would have said... "And, you are SURPRISED by this? What did you expect?"

My children accuse me of not telling them what they WANT to hear. I tell them it is because I will NOT lie to them. When they ask for my opinion, they get the truth. If they want to hear the truth, they ask.

I am curious as to others opinion's about "marriage" vs. commonlaw relationships. By that I mean, does it make it more valid in terms of monogomy...commitment...and other things that we associate with a "marriage". What would prompt people to have children with people that they are not married to? What makes people refer to someone that they are living with, have had children with, and have a home with....a Fiancee? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It doesn't sound like a marriage even has to take place. Everything that is supposed to be a product of a marriage is taking place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
What makes them think that they have a "legal" leg to stand on when it goes awry? I always felt that the reason (not the romantic reason) that a "marriage" takes place is in order to keep those problems from occuring. Any thoughts?

committed

Hello?

Hats off to those who showed love for rg instead of judgment. I just hope she was able to see the responses because I noticed that she hasn't posted any more replies <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

lj

[ March 27, 2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: lj ]

I haven't been here for a long while, but on coming back for a quick look this did catch my eye. You have to give some credit to redhat - sure
they stated the obvious but good on you. Not that anyone can wish the situation on to anybody but hopefully things will be learnt when the shoe is
on the other foot. Good luck to saving your marriage but be prepared for a lot of hard work. Perphaps you can now give some thought to what you did in the past & learn big time from it. Unless you learn what when wrong or why it is happening you will keep doing a full circle.

I noticed that she hasn't posted any more replies
This happens more than you might think. People go to a site, read a few quick things and post, then never return. Either they are confused as to what they want to do or they find someplace else or they just do nothing and continue on as they previously did.

Hi Chris,

Another possibility is that after reading certain replies, they are stunned and wouldn't know how to begin to post about their reactions or the things they are just starting to see in themselves as a result of certain replies...and then they are focused on applying the wisdom of the replies (sometimes certain questions seem to get the ball rolling in the right direction) and don't have time to type it all out. Btw, that is why I didn't post back to you months ago after you had made a few comments and asked me certain questions...but it helped me a lot and I thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

rg--We all start where we start and we all carry our own baggage with us into MB. In my opinion, MB is an excellent framework to use while we open that baggage, sort it out, keep the good (meeting ENs), and throw out the bad (LBs). I hope you are busy reading the info on this site and I hope you will post again if you need assistance in applying MB principles because there are people here who can help.