Another incredible chapter in my journey!
For those of you who have been following me, my H had been horrible this week. He was verbally abusive, seemingly wanting me to ask him to leave. Some of you told me to ask him to leave.
Wednesday morning with the urging of many of you, including ESPOIR, PEP and others, I'm so sorry if I'm not calling you by name, I told him that I was not going to play his game. I told him that I wanted to work on my marriage. Wednesday evening he came home different, initially saying that he wanted "to talk" but the talk did not occur.
Yesterday morning he kissed me goodbye and said "I LOVE YOU", a big switch from the previous days. Yesterday afternoon he incredibly came home and confessed all. He was planning to leave again today. He had maintained contact with the OW, as noted by PEP, last week.
However, he decided he could not do it! I can not put in the right words here to capture what took place in our house yesterday afternoon. God has definitely been in this. I incredibly sat there as he called the OW and stroked his hand as he emphatically told her I KNOW NOW THAT I LOVE MY WIFE. WHAT WE WERE DOING IS WRONG!! I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE OR TALK TO YOU AGAIN.He told her and me that he knows that he has done this before several times and he is not going to do it anymore. He can't let me go! He can't make a commitment to her because he loves me. Since that time, he has wanted to talk to me nonstop about his GUILT, the sickness of his attraction to her yet his continuing feelings for her. Yes, I think, complete honesty!! This is REAL RECOVERY.
Not only that he is telling me that he loves me, that I am beautiful inside and out, he is hugging me and touching me. It's UNBELIEVABLE!
I know we have a long way to go but we are definitely ON THE ROAD!!
Steve, thanks so much!!!! I hope you get a chance to read this. I am definitely maintaining my determination regarding my approach to our sons although right now my H is wanting to take alot of the responsibility. I know the part I played in creating the atmosphere of the A and am continuing to point that out to him.
<small>[ October 25, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>
I feel like crying..I'm so HAPPY FOR YOU!!! This really does sound like a REAL BREAKTHROUGH!! **WHEW**
Wow, that is just awesome, and I'm so happy for you! I pray the recovery will continue! Keep us posted.
KK
Congrats Mimi! You are continuing down that road.
I also want to issue a word of caution. This road is very bumpy. Although he may mean it, remember...he is still an addict. One who just got a fix recently. So, withdrawal starts all over again for him. and no matter how he feels about you, withdrawal is what he is going to go through.
So, the road is still bumpy. Still more potholes to come. But it will get smoother.
But dont worry. I am not raining on your parade...just want you to be realistic. There's still a lot to do, and studies show that it takes around 2 years to really put this all behind the two of you. And the toughest part is in the beginning.
But, on the positive is that his first real trial with his addiction, and he stood up and did the right thing. This is progress. Also, he did the right thing because Mimi did the right thing. You held it together, kept him to his word, and kept your boundaries intact. it is this that he will learn to trust in. It is this that both of you will rebuild upon.
So, take the ole Ronald Reagan maxim "Trust, but verify" to heart. You are just getting started. Hang on tight. The issues between you still have to be worked out. Withdrawal still has to be gone thru. But as you go through these things, tell yourself "This is just one more step to where I want us to be."
In His arms.
Blessings to you and yours...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
ARK
Thanks all. You are not raining on my parade. I know the need for caution.
I just wish I could convey to you how different this really is. There's a real change in regards to the honesty and him wanting me to join with him in fighting the addiction which he is admitting to.
Also I want you to know how much I appreciate the encouragement you guys gave to me about staying strong. If I had backed down, I feel that he would have been gone forever. He says he was wanting to run away and I wouldn't let him.
Mimi,
I know what this is that you are talking about. And I KNOW it is real. Please do not think I am minimizing it at all.
All I am saying is that this is JUST the beginning. There is more hardwork ahead. And now, it appears that he is really ready to do that hardwork.
And you, my dear, have the beginning you have been looking, praying and crying for. So, this is VERY positive.
Now, get back to work!
In His arms.
<small>[ October 17, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Yay Mimi!!! I'm so glad to hear it!
Hey, here's a positive suggestion for the caution everyone's throwing around. Take a page from the MB book and get out of town for a while. Three weeks if you can manage it, but even three days is probably a step in the right direction. Make it impossible for your H to contact OW for a few days, and distract him while you're doing it. There's nothing that says you can't make the NC easier for everyone, and who knows? You might actually enjoy the vacation.
Yippee!
What wonderful news. The fog clears...
Mimi, I can't give you clues. OP and WS both are known to lurk and I can't give away the fact that I am even still here.
But if you want you can email me at Sparkle_MB@hotmail.com and I will tell you who I am.
Meanwhile, I'm doing the "Peanuts" Happy Dance for you! Hear the music? Linus is playing!
*S*
Dear Mimi-
I am thrilled that your H has had this breakthrough. I think you are on the right path- not that there won't be a few more bumps along the way.
I think that when the WS comes home it is often very hard for them to confront their feelings. I think they feel sick inside- with shame, with guilt- and sometimes the BS just reminds them of this. It is easy for them to think that running back to the OP would get the "good" feelings flowing again. It won't. And thank god your WS realized it!
Getting away together is a good idea, but if it isn't possible, nesting at home is also good.
I think one thing must be focused on though. When your WS said to you "I don't like the kids, why won't you support me in that?" You need to get to the bottom of his feelings. You haven't really told us much about his family of origin (or perhaps I've forgotten something you shared earlier), but I am sure there are issues there. What was your WS's childhood like- how did he get along with his own parents? Something big is going on, and it needs to be worked on. Yes, you have acknowledged your part in creating the environment that made him vulnerable to the affair, and that is good. But there is more to it than that. It may be that your WS would have resented ANY attention you gave your sons- there is something in him that needs to be the center of your attention. He also may be playing a part in the family dynamic of creating conflict and forcing you to choose between him and the kids. I recommend that you try to explore his feelings in a nonjudgemental way if possible. Look at his childhood because that is where this has its roots- I suspect that he had to compete for his mother's love, or somehow felt unloved, and he is transferring those feelings into the present.
mimi - NOW is the time for joint Christian Marital Counseling. You will need the help of a third party to guide and help you both. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that you can both do this on your own.
Also, while I am thrilled about his decision, I want to caution you about the issue of withdrawal. It is real and it can be strong. I have gone through 18 months of repeated contacts because of the strength of withdrawal and the pain that the WS endures when the "pleasureable experience" is cut off. So be watchful for "slips" and be ready to confront and help him to regain the "straight and narrow" path should a slip occur.
It takes time, so be patient as well. You are off to a hopeful start, just don't make the mistake of thinking it is all over. It might be, but the passage of time will prove it or disprove it. On average it takes 2 years, so settle in for the long haul and trust God to guide the recovery, even if things get bumpy from time to time.
God bless.
UPDATE:
I don't think it helped at all for OW to confide in a former boyfriend. This "thug" called my voicemail and to tell me that this situation is "pissing him off" that "MY HUSBAND" is such a liar. He was informing me that H was supposed to leave and did not. Of course, they were not aware that I knew about the plan for him to leave and could not conceive that I would let H listen to the voicemail. It's scary that H was involved with such low-life people. It seemed to again wake him up more about who he was involved with. The thug has not called back. The call was after H changed his cell no. again and she could not reach him.
We had a great weekend. Went to both sons' football games and spent Sunday together alone.
It's interesting though that, although a large part of him wants me to himself, when he seems to be working on the marriage, he wants to do the parenting stuff. He tried to convince me to invite our son out with us yesterday. He eventually agreed that it would be better for us to spend the time together. We went to a movie and the mall and it was a great day. Just fun! No R talk.
FAMILY OF ORIGIN ISSUES: Just prior to the beginning of the A about 2 years ago, my H's parents stopped speaking to him. He's never been clear with me why this occurred. I think this is an important issue. I even recently asked him why doesn't he get angry with them about how they have treated him. He does have TWO BROTHERS who his mother seems to favor. They live in the same town as she does and she caters to them, fixing them special meals, etc. They have a playful relationship with her whereas she has not even called my H in about 4 years now. You see, he does not have a relationship at all with his M and has never seemed to be that close to her. We waited several years in our marriage before having children and before that time I did use to "baby" my H a lot which he still loves. I did stop doing this when our son was born.
ANOTHER PSYCHOLOGICAL OBSERVATION: My H has been describing the OW as being the perfect match for someone who is in need of infantile care. She seemed to encourage his immaturity. She was selfless, a nonperson, saying that she would do anything he wanted to do and she had nothing going on in her life. She is described as being empty, dedicating her whole life to him and defining herself by him. He know that there was something SICK about this. Is that the nature of most affairs. He said that even in their recent interactions it was clear that she wanted this type of relationship to continue and his realization of this caused discomfort.
What are your thoughts?
Thanks for being there for me, guys.
I think you have something there. Dr. Harley said people choose A because they are not getting their ENs met. What if a WS picks an A partner because they have EXACTLY the qualities that would give them the EN they are most missing from the M. That's what makes it so tenuous...they had found the whole package in us, but are settling for a piece of what we had with someone else.
And do you find yourself trying to emulate some of the *good* things the OW used to do? My H's OW was very stylish and wore makeup...I don't...so on our vacation I will pull out all the stops, and keep wearing makeup after the vacation (just to a lesser degree, it would be too much of a shock to those who know me).
There may not be an answer to this question. I really don't have to know the answer. However, I can't help but wonder what caused the turning point?
I remember Steve H. telling me last Thursday that my H would eventually HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE. That same day he came home and chose me. I'm 99.9% sure he was probably with her Wednesday night. According to the MB theory of addiction, do you think he did not get that high he once got from the A? I know it has been important that I have maintained myself in the same PLAN A or better that I was in 9 months ago.
I was just wondering.
Mimi, I've been away a while. Who broke the NC? I know your H had sent a letter before coming home?
I hope he can re-initiate the NC and make it stick. You are one super woman to have endured all this. But you're the winner in the end.
You ask if he might have still gotten the high from his visit? Hard to tell, but I would think if he is still going to see her, then something is still drawing him back.Or he has chosen knowing the new MIMI is not going to wait around forever as proven by your Plan A and B you did before. He's between a rock and a hard spot and has to do something soon to stop the cake walking. All good things come to an end, and so do bad things!
That is why NC is essential for you two to heal. And for him to get her out of his mind for good!
What does your counselor advice at this stage? going separation again? OR? I'm just interested how the Counselor sees it.
Glad to see you are handling this in a calm manner. I need your patience! Truly.
BTW, things going good in mine and H rebuilding. I will post a topic on update here in recovery.
Blessings. LouLou
New Branch:
Thanks for responding.
He's been doing a lot of talking and I've been listening.
He says that "There's no turning back this time. It was really like an addiction."
In answer to my question, I think the key has been the PLAN A and PLAN B. He seems to be convinced that I'm not changing from my PLAN A behaviors for one thing. AND he's clear that I won't be sitting around waiting for him. He had cast be in a parent role, that I was focused on taking care of the kids. He knows now that I did other things during PLAN B, he knows of men that were interested in me and he said he could not conceive of "another man in my house". He realizes that he can "have fun" with me and that's all their relationship was, he says.
My biggest problem is my hate for her. I want to tell him about that and that makes him want to take up for her still. I have to let him initiate negative talk about her. He says he feels guilty about "using her". I think she got what she deserved. She knew what she was doing and what she was getting into. YUK!!!!
Mimi, I think most WS try to defend OP as being nice or ok. Or feeling sorry for them. It takes time to come around to seeing then in the light of day.
I battled that myself. But then I did the searching and proved him wrong in his thinking of OW. Showed her lies, deceit and even a 3 marriage and divorce he didnt' know about. Wait, I found one he didn't know about between her first and this current one about to be X. Had to show him in black and white!
He would believe nothing I said, taking everything she'd said as gospel!
GRRRRRRRR
Anyhow, I think one thing that helped is I finally got through his thick head that he was still hurting me by caring for her feelings. Because obviously, during A he hadn't had that kind of consideration for my feelings.
You know, somehow it's like they don't see us as having feelings or being human! Or I also got the feeling that because mine was present physically with me, that he thought that was enough. It wasn't!
As I told another lady over on SI site, who was worried about hurting her OM feelings. As long as she cared about this OM, she is not going to get her H back. They are divorced but trying to get back together. Somehow these WS have to see that until and unless they give 100% at home, and shut OP out completely, they are doing more damage.
Would your H read here? Or is he averse to it?
He needs to hear from a few other BS's how it effects us and wake up to what he is doing to you!
When mine would say he didn't want to hurt her feelings, I had to point out that he was then continueing to hurt mine and which one of us mattered most?
H also needs to realize the OW was helping harm you! She is not innocent of wanting you to just fade away or even die!
Ask him how he can respect or care for someone who would gladly put a gun to your head if they thought they could get away with it? Because that is almost as bad as ripping our hearts out little by little. Heck, it might have been kinder!
WS need to see the op in the light of day. They are as much responsible for our pain as our WS.
I wish your H could realize this.
But you are the winner, I feel eventually he's going to snap out of it and take a long look at the stranger he was!
It just wasn't enough for my H to be here with me and her 1100 miles away. I still felt his heart was not totally here or his reasoning.
As long as mine retained any caring for OW, I was not about to even try to rebuild. Sorry, but I wanted him to see her with disgust. I think we reached that point when I finally dug up all her dirt or a lot and pushed it in his face. Finally he saw he wasn't so special to her after all. He was just one of a long line, that the parasite was sucking blood from!
I wish you all the luck and blessings in renewing your Marriage. And that your H finally comes to realize OW means nothing. She has hurt you as much as he has and continues by allowing him to still see her.
LouLou
Hi Mimi---
I think the stuff you said about your H's background is very significant. Unfortunately I don't have time to post right now- I will try to post tomorrow.
[qb]FAMILY OF ORIGIN ISSUES: Just prior to the beginning of the A about 2 years ago, my H's parents stopped speaking to him. He's never been clear with me why this occurred. I think this is an important issue. I even recently asked him why doesn't he get angry with them about how they have treated him. He does have TWO BROTHERS who his mother seems to favor. They live in the same town as she does and she caters to them, fixing them special meals, etc. They have a playful relationship with her whereas she has not even called my H in about 4 years now. You see, he does not have a relationship at all with his M and has never seemed to be that close to her. We waited several years in our marriage before having children and before that time I did use to "baby" my H a lot which he still loves. I did stop doing this when our son was born.[qb]
It seems to me that your H is transferring some of his family issues onto your family. My guess is that your H always felt ignored by his mother and the attention was given to his brothers instead. You don't mention his birth position so I don't know if he once was "babied" by his mother and lost this when two younger sibs came along OR whether he never had it.
So he marries you and is able to bask in your affection and attention, getting babied by you- didn't get it from his mother but now he gets it from his wife. Then along come not 2 brothers but 2 sons--- and he loses your attention and affection to them.
The anger he feels towards your sons in a way could be an expression of the pain and rage he feels towards his own brothers who receive the motherly care and love that he should have a part of.
Mimi- I think it is really important that you understand this!!! What is happening with the communication here? Your H has been estranged from his family for 4 years and you don't know why? What is your relationship with your inlaws like? What about your kids' relationship with their grandparents? I am sure that no matter what your H says there is a part of him that is hurting deeply over this deep down.
The timing of the A seems significant. In a sense your H cut all his ties at that time- with his parents and with you. I don't know if his parents rejected him and he rejected you out of anger at his mother or whether he simply decided to reject all of you as he embarked on the A. He picked a surrogate to give him an all accepting mother love. I think the ultimate problem is that it came too easily. OW was too much of a doormat. Your H has always had to struggle to get that love. He's not used to having it thrown at him a la OW- it felt good at first no doubt and then it would become uncomfortable.
This is hard to explain but I suspect your H entered into a conspiracy with you to somehow recreate the situation of his childhood. His childhood wounds, in his mind, will be healed when he battles two opponents--- brothers, sons- for his mother's/your love and WINS. Problem with OW in the end was there was no battle.The unconditional love from OW probably seemed fabulous at first... but deep down your H recognized it was sick. Also there is no victory when someone hands themselves to you on a platter.
Your challenge is to help your H frame all these issues in a different way. To talk about his childhood pain. To learn that you are his partner and you are there-- he does not have to battle with your sons for your love. You have enough love for everybody. To grow as a partner and a parent- to stop seeing his sons as his rivals but as his legacy.
Just talking about some of this stuff could be very helpful but it has to be done delicately.
just some thoughts.....