Anybody else seeing a connection with Conflict Avoiders and affairs?

Hi Guys,I'm really tired and just noticed [no, not that I'm tired, I knew that a long time ago] that a few on the board have S's who are exhibiting signs and symptoms of conflict avoidance.So far I have seen Deb's, Mitzi's and Bonnet's Hs have been diagnosed as well as my Val.Is there a connection or should I go to bed and stop thinking so much?It looks like E = I X R. Electricity takes the path of least resistance. For our S, they seek other companionship as the path of least resistance. No real issues to deal with. HUH?Just a theory. What do you think?Zip

Wow that was brilliant Zippy.I would have to agree. It would seem that conflict avoidance is a common trait amoung the betrayers.Turn your Gooey on Bill------------------ BB

Ok. So how do we deal with conflict avoiders. Who has had any success???? What is the first step. I know my H is a conflict avoider. So much so that the OW is the person who faces the conflicts for him at work so he doesn't have to. He used tolike the fact that I pushed him to talk about problems. Now he says he never said that.

Tim,See? You figured it out for all of us!!Mitzi

My W always said"It's not worth fighting over",or"Don't sweat the small stuff."Well,I didn't sweat the small stuff,and look what happened. --Murph

Usually if we argued, my H seemed to get over it pretty quickly. At the time, I thought that was a good thing. Little did I know that he was apparently never really over it.

Hi All,Did anyone find any books or articles on the web to help us out with this type of individual or behavior?I searched for an hour and came up with nothing other than being a little more frustrated. All types of conflict out there, just not any applicable sources.After discovery I got the "I don't want to talk about it" response. TNT believes that we must fill their love bank enough until they want to come back to work on the marriage. Make us a safe choice. They do love us but don't want to take responsiblity for their actions. Don't approach them with any subject that makes them feel blame, guilt things like that. It make sense. I don't see any other way around it. That is unless I really am stuck on stupid.If they do come back do we have to walk on egg shells for the rest of our life and not confront them on any topic?My head hurts. I have been thinking too much this week. Having a real bad Val week. Tim

Medic238, My W is a big time conflict avoider. She has been all of her life. She fails to understand that the problem doesn't go away just because you are ignoring it. As a matter of fact it causes additional problems for the avoider.I on the other hand believe in attacking all problems head on to eliminate them. Yes, sometimes other problems arise but that one is usually gone if the other person truly agrees to the solution. She needs to make up her mind as to what she wants to do: stay or leave. I am prepared for both. It is my nature to deal with the possible outcomes even though one is more preferable than the other.------------------ God Bless, Rob regilmor@swbell.net

Hey BillWhat's a Gooey?????????????????????????------------------ Peg

Hey Medic,You hit the nail on the head about the 'walking on eggshells.' I do this alternately - can't help myself, sometimes I stomp around on them for awhile.Do you also think that perhaps they originally chose us as spouses because one of the things we weren't was one of the things they were? - conflict avoiders. I, too, would rather deal with a problem before setting it aside. Kind of like paying the bills - get it over with and then move on to whether you have enought left over for whatever. My H, on the other hand will spend now and worry about the bills, if he has to, later. Another connection perhaps? [This message has been edited by RCoaster (edited February 26, 2000).]

I'm not sure whether it's conflict avoidance, depression, lack of self worth, or just plain immaturity and a tendency to go with whatever "feels" good. The consistently demonstrated trait is taking the path of least resistance. Wherever there are choices, the one that's the easiest and requires the least self-examination or effort will be the one selected. Often, it's no conscious choice at all - it's just continuing on. The impacts on others are not even considered.OK, I've earned the right to make the next comment, with a 17 month separation and literally thousands of hours analyzing the "why's". It if a fruitless quest. You will never have a satisfactory explanation and even if your spouse were being honest with you, they couldn't tell you themselves.No one will probably listen to me (I know I didn't listen to others who told me) but you'll save yourself countless hours of examination and grief if you just focus on what is and forget about the why.One other comment on the possibility of permanent walking on egg shells. I asked Steve Harley this question. He told me that it is not a permanent arrangement, it's only until their lovebank is sufficiently filled so that they start to love you again. There's no hope of doing this while an affair is active.

I don't think it's always the conflict avoiders that have affairs. My H is a conflict avoider and I don't believe he would ever have an affair. I, on the other hand, came close, partly due to my frustration over the fact that conflicts never get resolved in my house. They don't even get acknowledged. They get swept under the rug. I used to try to pull things out of him and force him to talk. I got tired of doing that.

I have to agree with Truthseeker as I was the conflict avoider and I never had an affair. My x was always is conflict about something though.My x also said something that Truthseeker said, that being she was tired of having to draw things out of me all the time. Her and her om could talk about anything!------------------ "You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!" Mick Jagger

I agree with Truthseeker....conflict avoiders may not have affairs....my W is one and I really don't think she would have an affair....whereas, I would classify myself as a prime canidate for an affair. When I am in a relationship with a conflict avoider, I can't help to feel that if this isn't important enough for them to fight for, then "WHY?" should I bother. In my opinion, conflict avoiders seem to lack passion for life....my W seems to just exist rather than live....ignoring problems j makes them go away for her...."self is the easiest person to deceive."

Yes, yes, yes! Nowhereman, you said it EXACTLY! I feel exactly the same way. If somethings not worth the fight to HIM what's the point? My H has no passion for life AT ALL! Maybe my H and your W should get together [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

(Just kidding, of course)[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited February 26, 2000).]

I too have to agree with Truthseeker, RWD, and nowhereman. I don't think my H would have an affair(he's the conflict avoider). I on the other hand am getting tired of not having communication. He thinks everything will be just fine. Its over and done with move on. Hard to do!falsely accused

A common thread seems to be emerging here. Conflict avoidance whether it be on the part of betrayer or betrayed is a major obstacle to intimacy in a marriage. You can count me in as far as this being a problem in our marriage too. My H would often brag to people that we've never had a fight. I remember thinking that it wasn't healthy, but I never felt comfortable enough to bring it up. My H is super-sensitive to anything that can even be remotely construed to be criticism. So, of course we never fought, it wasn't allowed!I think all of this comes under the heading of Openness & Honesty. If you don't feel secure enough in a relationship to be open and honest, then you won't be able to deal with any conflict. And as the conflict slowly builds (but it pushed under the carpet), the marriage erodes.

Medic, and everyone else who has responed to this post:I think the term "conflict avoider" should be changed to "issue avoider", better yet, "life avoider".My ex. fit the pattern perfectly. Never talk, never bring up anything that was bothering you. Sit on it, push it down, and be miserable.Solution: Go find someone else. When will they realize that they have to face issues at some point? It is only going to happen again.Of coursce, who is suffering from her actions? Me. That is what is so frustrating.AGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Hey, that sounds like my husband. He admits he is a conflict avoider. I believe he chose to go live with the other woman because it was so much easier than having to work on our relationship. TOO MUCH CONFLICT THERE! He just couldn't face the amount of work he thought it was going to take. He is a fool and I hope he will be miserable with the ow! Sorry, I just had to throw that one in there.~Woozy

Hey Medic, do you think better when you are tired. Or do thesethoughts just pop up. LOL. H is a bigtime conflict avoider but I am too in a way just not a sbad as he is/was. I think any time a spouse leaves it is to avoid sometype of conflict. I think he went to tell the OW that it was over but couldn't because it was easier to leave me then to work on our marriage BIGTIME CONFLICT AVOIDER!!!!!.Hope you got some rest. I haven't looked at allthe post I think I missed the results of the phone call? Tell me what happened. ------------------ di

Hey Medic,just got back from my weekend in Melb. There's an update if you're interested. I actually wanted to talk to you about this very subject. What everyone has said is so true. I also have the type of personality that I would rather deal with 'something', and get it out of the way, than have it hanging over my head. Stewing, pondering, worrying, why just not deal with it?????I also got tired of being the one who worked and worked and worked to resovle conflict in our house. We really didn't argue or disagree that much, but when we did, all he ever said was 'well, what do you want me to say..." OR "well, everything I say is wrong.." OR "you don't want to hear what I have to say...." OR, OR, OR, OR and the list goes on..I got to the stage where if we disagreed, I also swept it under the carpet. I could not be bothered to be the only one to try and sort it out. I will certainly accept blame and fault there, I should have plugged away, but how do you make someone communicate effectively if a/ they don't know how, they never learned b/ it was never done in the childhood home c/ they don't want toI also agree with what everyone said about them almost just existing, they're not grabbing life with both hands and running with it.My attitude is that life is so short, and we only get one shot at it. I want to fill mine with love, laughter, family, friends and fun times... If we do that, the rest will come. I believe positive creates positive (all you rocket scientists and physisists out there will probably have something to say here..)and when you are basically a positive happy person, good things come to you. For me, it is a simple as finding a carpark space when the whole shopping centre is jampacked... or getting all the green lights when you're in a rush.... etc etc. I have always managed to get jobs that I have wanted, sometimes not the first go, but I generally get there. I try to surround myself with positive happy people and it really does rub off.Anyway, .02c isn't worth much with the exchange rate these days, but I agree with you all.I also feel that this conflict avoidance stuff is something that they have to work out themselves. We can be there to support, offer encouragement, give them honest and open communication, but wait, I've done that for 12 years... Where do I go from here. I think this is a road he must travel himself.thanks for thisJo

I guess I'm taking the conflict avoiders side on this issue. In my case, everything to my x was a conflict. She expected to be treated certain ways and when she wasn't, then it was a problem she brought home.I stopped communicating with her about any problems I had at work because then she though I was going to get fired, when in fact I was one of my boss's top guys. She didn't understand then why wasn't I recognized as that and promoted. The reason was I don't want a management job. So when she kept thinking I was going to get fired, guess what I quit bringing it up.As far as having no zest for life. I have a lot of zest. But going out to dinner and a movie does get old. When we would go out, which was limited to every other weekend because of her work, the only thing she wanted to talk about was her job and her problems at work, again my job was off limits beacuse of the above and the fact she never showed any interest. We never went bowling,or sporting events because she doesn't like sports. We didn't play cards or board games with others because she didn't like them.When we did do something different, we always had to get back early for the kids. Also because I traveled heavily the last 3 yrs, I didn't always feel like going anywhere. So I have to disagree with its the conflict avoiders fault. Someone told me, my SIL actually, that she was suprised I wasn't the one to have an affair.I think it does come down to honesty and communication. I was not honest with my x back then and my interpersonal communication skills are weak. It that family thing, I only saw my parents fight once. I never saw them kiss either so I'm not real big on affection (I am dying for some now though!).Unfortunetly (for her) I didn't learn all this till after my x's affair and she was unwilling to see if I could change.------------------ "You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!" Mick Jagger

Medic---Ever thought about going into counseling?? I think you have made a major discovery here!!!!My W is the ultimate conflict avoider (now known as CA). Her theory is that if you don't talk about it, acknowledge it, or discuss it, then it will go away!!! I think that is why I am having such a hard time with all of this. I want to get to the root of the problem and fix it, while she is hoping that everything "will pass with time."Keep up the analyzing!!!!!Doug ------------------ Don't give up...don't ever give up!" --Jimmy Valvano

It doesn't really matters who was the conflict avoider BEFORE the affair (in our case I pledge guilty), but really what happens during/after the course of the affair; woozy gets right to the point: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...he chose to go live with the other woman because it was so much easier than having to work on our relationship. TOO MUCH CONFLICT THERE! He just couldn't face the amount of work he thought it was going to take... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> During the month following my W's "confession" I used to tell her that she is lazy for not wanting to work on our relationship… until today she still complains about things as if everything was "normal" and we were just having a conversation, but refuses to work on these issues.The betrayer spouse believes that walking away from the marriage is the easiest thing, while at the end it's the worst because by doing so behavioral problems are not addressed properly. The truth is, the betrayer carries into his/her next relationship (including the affair) a bag full of garbage that has to be disposed, but he/she doesn't seem to acknowledge this.Alex------------------ Live fully and always learn[This message has been edited by ThisAlex (edited February 27, 2000).]

thisalex,I think my husband acknowledges that he is a conflict avoider and might be dealing with it in his counseling sessions. But I got the feeling from him that he is going to counseling to make the relationship with the OP better and not this one. Does this make sense??????

Well, I just picked up "Lovebusters" yesterday, and read 3/4 of it so I can offer another perspective on this issue. Conflict avoiders also tend to be protective liars as well as stay-out of trouble liars. (Sorry no political correctness today) They lie to avoid the conflict. This dishonesty sets them up for an affair. The way to combat is to be honest. From the very beginning. Ok we can't control their being honest, but here's what we can do. (According to lovebusters as I understand it.) We can make sure that we are creating an environment where honesty is safe. They will be honest at times. We just need to tune in our radars and make sure that that honesty is rewarded. (I.e. we show them how much we appreciate their honesty.) They are avoiding the conflict, so we need to decide how to temper the conflict so it's less scary. (And temper it in a productive way that doesn't cause us to avoid it ourselves.) I'm still working on that one. I think it's a skill that is going to take me some time to get the hang of. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Anyway, my take. My husband is a huge conflict avoider. (Also incredibly introverted.) He grew up in a highly critical environment, and well I have that tendency monster as well...Those times when I am less critical he opens up not only to me, but to the world at large as well. Now that I think about it, the experience of his losing his job last year was also a highly critically charged experience. All of this spun him into a pattern of withdrawal, conflict avoidance, and deceit. Thus the affair. Hmmmmm.

Claudia,Yes, it makes sense. Your H is avoiding the conflict & work involved in trying to reconcile with you, while he is probably trying, in the relationship with the OW, to avoid his past mistakes. Still, this relationship with the OW was born out of a lie and most likely he is not addressing this fact.Alex------------------ Live fully and always learn

Sometimes it is easier to see something in someone else than to recognize it in you.Both my wife and I are CA's, but in varing degrees and in different situations (or even different times). At work I'm very direct and decission oriented, yet at home I revert to a more passive/agressive mode (what an over used term). I try to avoid any type of conflict that will make others uncomfortable. As my son told me, "you try to make everyone happy but all you are getting are smiles." He's right. In order to maintain what I consider the best (notice I didn't say what we considered the best) route to go, I would even stoop to lying. Better to not let everyone know what is going on and hope it blows over or I can fix it. Poor thought process!My wife on the other hand would bring up conflict "topics" at home and if we started to get into them, she would clam-up and refuse to continue the discussion. Her idea of meeting conflict was to express her point and than go no further and expect a change. She met her work conflicts the same way. If everything was going her way, fine; if not quit!So no, not only is CA found in the betrayer, but also in the betrayed. And, this makes it hard to work with the conflict, marriage.Woozy and T.Alex are right and I can see myself and my wife in bonnet's reply.

Zip - My W and I don't fit the theory too well either. (But it still may be true in MANY cases.)For about the first 6 months of our relationship, while we were still courting, I was a conflict avoider not because that's my basic personality, but simply because I was so nuts about this woman that I didn't want to do anything to spoil what was happening. My betraying W is anything BUT a conflict avoider. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

In fact, during the last couple of years of our marriage, she's actually gone out of her way to start bogus fights over just about anything at all. And when that started happening, there wasn't any WAY for ME to avoid conflict either! So I just rolled up my sleeves and went toe to toe with her verbally. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Now I think that a lot of those bogus fights which she started were just to give her an excuse to keep her distance so that she could save herself for the OM. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

--Wex

Beth writes: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Conflict avoiders also tend to be protective liars as well as stay-out of trouble liars. (Sorry no political correctness today) They lie to avoid the conflict. This dishonesty sets them up for an affair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Boy, does this sound familiar!!! The earliest and most consistent problem in our marriage has been that David will lie about little, unimportant things so as not to upset anyone. Unfortunately, honesty is very important to me, and so this did a lot of damage.Conflict Avoiders also spend so much time avoiding conflict they often do not really know or express what they want and need in a relationship, despite being vaguely unhappy...which sets them up for an affair. The new person seems to fit their needs, make them feel more alive, and it sure is easier than working on things, isn't it?

I think you're onto something here. My wife has always been a conflict avoider, and a non-negotiator. Rather than talk about our problems, or honestly respond when I brought them up, my wife chose to withdraw. She just started shutting down our relationship: companionship, family activities, affection, intimacy, sex, till there was nothing left. Along the way she had an EA which edged into a PA before it stopped. Now she has anounced she wants out of the marriage, but in typical confict avoidance style, is very reluctant to talk about why, and refuses to commit to saving the marriage.The irony of conflict avoidance is that they don't succeed in avoiding conflict forever. Inevitably, a big crisis will come and all the conflicts start to pour out. It can be overwhelming.

My H is obviously a "conflict avoider". I have been making his life miserable for 15 years but he never thought to bring it up or mention it to me until after his affair. Funny how that works isn't it?------------------ Blessed be. **************** KeridwenKeridwen_7@yahoo.com