Marriage Builders
Posted By: poorme I want children - 06/02/00 05:59 AM
My wife got married and had a child really young. That marriage ended very bitterly, with the man stalking her, threatening to kill her, and taking the child away. Her daughter has had some emotional problems ever since. As a result, my wife said she never wanted to have any more children. Too painful. Too risky.<P>I married her knowing this, but thought that she would change her mind. I was in the military for a while, and she said she would "think about" having kids once I got out. Well, when I got out, it was still no.<P>She had all kinds of stupid excuses. She was too old (she's 32!). She said we weren't secure enough (we are financially ok). She said she wanted me to be around more (I was home every night). I know she's had some physical problems. She has used that as an excuse too, but she could have at least tried.<P>Tons of women are dying to have kids with me and be the wife I wish she was. Why can't she just do what she's supposed to do if she says she loves me so much? <P>Now that we are separated, she says she would consider having kids! She said that our separation makes her see how valuable family is! What?! She was so adamant about having the perfect family for a child and now that our marriage is over, she wants to have a kid? With who?<P>Anyway, I want to have children. I don't want to just have any children, but to have a family. I am afraid that that will never be possible with her because she is lying to make me stay. What if she really can't have kids and I waste all this time trying to fix the relationship and still don't have any kids? What if we do have kids and then I am stuck in a relationship that isn't happy? Should I just go out and find another woman who doesn't have these hang ups?<P>All this stuff is weighing heavy on my mind because our divorce is coming up. I have so many conflicting thoughts. Can someone help?
Posted By: schizzo Re: I want children - 06/01/00 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poorme:<BR><B><BR>Tons of women are dying to have kids with me and be the wife I wish she was. Why can't she just do what she's supposed to do if she says she loves me so much? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It would be too funny if said in another context. But let me see if I got this: you've had several affairs, broken your promises to this woman, and you want her to give you kids???<P>On another thread you said you deserve to be happy. Why? How have you deserved it???<P><p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 01, 2000).]
Posted By: trying2_4give Re: I want children - 06/01/00 06:31 PM
YOU DEFINITELY NEED HELP! HOW OLD ARE YOU? You sound like the most selfish CHILD that I have ever seen in this forum. You have the nerve to say "Why doesn't she just do what she's supposed to do if she loves me so much"? Why didn't you do what you were supposed to do as a husband, and a grown man. Everything you have said is ME, ME, ME! Maybe your wife is tired of everything being about you. Maybe she realized that if she had a baby then she would have 2 CHILDREN to emotionally feed. You really sound like a either a spoiled, selfish brat or a Narcissistic personality and you really need a psyciatrist, because everyone else is to blame for EVERYTHING that has ever gone wrong in your marriage and that is all you see. You picked the perfect name for yourself.<p>[This message has been edited by trying2_4give (edited June 01, 2000).]
Posted By: cl Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:00 PM
this cannot be a real poster....? <BR>
Posted By: trying2_4give Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:04 PM
i had the same thoughts cl.
Posted By: Kallie6 Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:15 PM
Poorme,<BR>On some talk show the other day a professional said we don't have any classes on marriage or relationships when growing up in this country. I disagree. By the time we leave home, we've had an 18 year example of marriage - our parents. But we still, most of us, anyway, have the intellegence to be able to make decisions that are different from the examples taught to us.<P>So, without blaming your parents, what was your childhood like?<P>It appears from your posts that you have trouble feeling empathy for other people (namely your W), and I don't think you fully understand what God intended marriage to be.<P>I understand from your posts that you have been a good provider. My H was and continues to be a very hard working provider, and most of our 19 years together he was the sole provider. When we needed for me to get a job I let him know daily how upset that made me, but I didn't talk to him about it, I screamed, threw fits, cried... I was a b*&$% to live with then. I thought if I just let him know how miserable I was he could "fix" it. But a guys "job" in life is not to simply provide finances for the family. God intended for the man to be the head of the family, to manage all the areas, including the emotional needs of his W. (The W, in turn is to be his helper, in whatever he needs - and I should have been willing to get a paying job) You need to read between the lines and with prayer with the family, figure out how you can help.<P>I am concerned that you said what if you waste all this time trying to fix the relationship & still don't have kids. Even if you don't believe in marriage in the biblical sense, having a relationship just to get kids is wrong. Surely you are smart enough to understand that. She's already had one child with someone who didn't have a good value of other people, and now you're asking her for another.<P>You came to MB, expecting what? You've set off some normally calm & very nice people who have flamed you, and yet you come back. Is there hope for you? Are you willing to change? <P>------------------<BR>Kallie (Hope should be my middle name smile )
Posted By: josey Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:32 PM
Poorme,<P>You can't be for real. Is this post some sort of a test or joke???<P>Jo
Posted By: schizzo Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:35 PM
Kallie, I'm not flaming anybody.<P>First, I want clarification, I don't get it.<P>Second, why does poorme or anyone else deserve happiness is a serious question. The Constitution guarantees the right to the pursuit of happiness. Why do so many people have the idea that we deserve to have it handed to us on a silver platter just because???<P>that some people deserve special treatment because other people that none of us knew were mistreated centuries ago.<P>that we deserve special treatment in the job market because of our sex.<P>that we had a tragic childhood (I did) so now we deserve to be happy regardless of what we do.<P>or maybe that it's just because I'm worth it (like the commercial).<P>I think deserved and earned are pretty close synonyms. It was an honest question, why does poorme think he deserves to be happy, have children, etc.??<P>Off the immediate subject - but my heart really goes out to the children as I read post after post. Whether betrayer or betrayed, we are living out the results of our own decisions as adults; their pain is real and outside of their control.<P>If anyone "deserves" happiness without having actually done the right things to get there it is the children.<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited June 01, 2000).]
Posted By: Nikki123 Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:44 PM
Well, not to jump on the band wagon here.. but...<P>What do you mean.. do what she is supposed to do? Do you have a manual that you are referring to? There is no set guidelines on what a husband an wife should do for each other. She, apparently made it clear to you when you married her that she was not interested in having kids and you married her anyway. While I can understand your hope that she would change her mind it was wrong of you to marry thinking she would change her mind... I hope that you can see that we marry people as they are, not as we want them to be. when someone takes a clear stand on an issue pre-marriage, than the partner has to accept that.. <BR>Next point: she is now saying that she will try to have a child with you... why are you assuming that she is telling you a lie. It could simply be that she has now accepted the fact that having a child is very important to you.. not just all talk and she has also processed through her issues and realized that she wants another child as well. Also, you complain about not knowing if she can have a child... wellhow do you know you don't have fertility problems? Or, how do you know that whatever woman out there that you marry next won't have a fertility problem.... There are no guarantees in life!!! I hope that you are seeing a counselor to help you through these issues. I do not blame you for wanting a family, I have two beautiful children who are the light of my life... but I was not ready to have children for many years... having children is not something that should be pushed on you. They are a lot of work and young children will put a lot of strain on a marriage, it takes a tough and committed marriage to survive through the early years of a marriage...so, if you do get back together with her make sure things are really stable between you two before you rush into having kids. They are a lot of work (well worth it in my opinion)... the last thing you will want is to have a kid and then have your marriage crumble around you!<BR>
Posted By: poorme Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:44 PM
You know, maybe I have come to the wrong place. I should have known better than to try to get some honest feedback here. You are all perfect and have done everything right, right? <P>I am just trying to do the right thing and be happy. I know what I want kids. I know I am a good man. I can have my pick of many women. I am a good provider. I just want someone who is going to respect me and someone I can be happy with. I am sure you all want the same. And what is wrong with that?<P>My childhood was fine, thanks. <P>Forget I asked.
Posted By: Kallie6 Re: I want children - 06/01/00 07:57 PM
Poorme, if you honestly think we are all going to tell you that you are right, then yes, you've come to the wrong place. <P>Schizzo, I did not mean that you have flamed anyone. Yes, the questions you asked are good. Maybe I misused the word. <P>I wonder what "honest feedback" means to poorme.<P>
Posted By: soulloss Re: I want children - 06/01/00 08:17 PM
what a welcome...!!... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>thank goodness I have been at Mb for 7 months and realize that this is not the general tone of topics.....<P>this man has a problem....he came here for help....<P>well, some us don't appreciate the 'tone', or the 'attitude' that seems to come through the post...<P>poorme, I think perhaps you have come across as a 'tad' arrogant...<P>the 'you could have your pick of women' and 'tons of women are dying to be with you and have kids with you' attitude could be perceived as derogatory towards your wife...it comes across as rude....crass....<P>if you could have any pick, and constantly state the fact, then why should we believe you have respect for your wife??...<P>if I understand, part of your prob stems from the fact that you suspect she maybe unable to have childreen and may be lying to you...<P>you have not stated why you are seperated...or why your wife now wants you back and sudenly wants kids...<P>do you love your wife ?<P>nowhere in your post do you actually discuss feelings of any kind for your wife....<P>if it would be so easy for you to find a 'replacement',perhaps you should re-evaluate yourself as a husband and a man...<P>there are alot of opinions as well as genuine good insight on this board...even if some of us don't like whatwe'read' in a post...it is still important to remember thatwe are all himan beings and thateven if someone isn't expressing themselves in a manner thatwe 'like', perhaps they don't yet know how...we need to be a little more tolerant here, I have noticed lately....<P>regardless of the tone of this post, this guy has a marital problem...we maybe able to help him see his probs, and perhaps to help him make some changes within...but we certainly will accomplish nothing by scaring away individuals who come here for help...<P><BR>Dylan<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles
Posted By: K Re: I want children - 06/01/00 08:18 PM
Poorme:<P>You're getting plenty of honest feedback here. From your two posts, you come across as pure "Taker"---me, me, me. Or in non-Harley terms, you come across as an immature, self-centered little man with not one clue as how to make a marriage work (which is OK---if you're here to get a clue).<P>I'd suggest that if you're really interested in trying to work through your marriage one more time, that you try the phone counseling here at MarriageBuilders. You'd probably like it---it's a very "no-nonsense", results-oriented approach. It does require behavior-modifications, of which you'd need to take seriously. But you could be very successful with this. I'd urge you to call them (888-639-1639).<P>You list your good attributes: you're a good provider, and you like children. But you're also a serial cheater, a liar, and someone who has a very difficult time seeing other's points-of-view. Although your wife is bringing some issues to this marriage, you need to share in the responsibility. I'd suggest that you're not quite the "gem" you think you are---it wouldn't hurt you at all to polish up your marriage skills with Harley's counseling.
Posted By: trying2_4give Re: I want children - 06/01/00 08:34 PM
Soulless, this is not Poorme's first post. He made it quite clear how he felt for his wife. "SOMETIME's he wants to get back together with her" etc. And how can we forget the "I told her that if she ever changed on me or stopped having sex with me (she didn't actually stop, but it wasn't very warm and fun anymore) that I would go out and do this, and I did". <BR>I was totally honest in my post and still stand by it. Some may agree, some may not, he wanted honest feedback and he got it, why sugar coat it, Poorme certainly didn't.
Posted By: soulloss Re: I want children - 06/01/00 08:49 PM
I just did a search and read poorme's first post....<P>I now understand..... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>poorme, listen to k....get counselling....and consider yourself lucky that she is comtemplating a reconciliation..<P><BR>Dylan<P><P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles
Posted By: Lady M Re: I want children - 06/01/00 09:48 PM
Poorme - Actually, your wife's the one that should be saying "Poor Me" for being married to someone who obviously doesn't love her, but only wants to use her body for procreation, to create a "family" for his own ego gratification, not because of his love for her!!<P>I can really relate to this - my Ex-H did the same thing to me - emotionally blackmailed me, withheld sex, treated me with contempt because I was not obssessed with having a child. He is sterile, and after running up our debt so high that we could not afford other options, he left me for another woman who already had a child so that he could play "Daddy". The destructiveness of his behavior is unestimable. He says he is happy now - maybe you should should try the same tack, and save your wife a lot of heartache. If you don't want a child because you love your wife and want to share this undertaking with her (and not just anyone who is willing) then do her a favor and divorce her. I cannot begin to tell you the heartache I have endured at the hands of a husband who did not love me, but pressured me to sell our home, move into a small apartment, and basically give up everything, so that we could adopt a child at age 40, when it was more than apparent that this was not an undertaking that had a good chance of succeeding. His selfishness was and is, appalling. I could not bring myself to sacrifice everything I worked for for almost 20 years to obtain a child for a man who did not love me. His desire for a child was for his own ego gratification, to do what was "expected" and to please his mother, who is child-obssessed, not because of any love he had for me. This is the most insulting thing that I can think of to do to your spouse. To "use" them to get what you want for yourself, with no regard to their feelings and what effect it will have on them. You need to grow up!! Perhaps you should divorce your wife and adopt as a single parent - your obviously have no use for marriage, or have what it takes to treat a wife with the love, respect and caring she deserves.<P>I am now divorced and finally glad (it took me three years to get to that point) to be free of a man who became a tyrant in the service of his own needs and wants. I loved him with all my heart, but he did not love me, refused to participate in our marriage, and then dumped me like trash he no longer had use for when he saw a chance to get what he believed would make him "happy". Your wife deserves better than this. Sorry to be so harsh, but after everything I have been through, I cannot stand to see someone else subjected to the hell that I have gone through.
Posted By: poorme Re: I want children - 06/01/00 10:00 PM
So, are you guys just here to find someone you can feel superior to? I haven't said anything that a thousand other guys haven't thought. The other betrayers here are just like me and your all fighting to get back with them, so we can't be too bad.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soulloss:<BR><B>if I understand, part of your prob stems from the fact that you suspect she maybe unable to have childreen and may be lying to you...<P>you have not stated why you are seperated...or why your wife now wants you back and sudenly wants kids...<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My wife has scar tissue from untreated and undiagnosed STDs from her first marriage which apparently progressed to a pretty serious thing. We don't know if it is enough to make her infertile, but she does have some blockage. This much is true. <P>What I meant about her lying is that she could be lying about WANTING to have a child now. Maybe she is just saying that to get me back. Maybe she CAN get pregnant, but will tell me that she can't and will keep using birth control.<P>We separated because we weren't getting along. She said we needed "space". She filed divorce papers when she found out about the affairs.<P>I don't know if she wants to get back together or not. Sometimes she acts like it. She tells me that she loves me, but she isn't really pursuing a reconciliation. She's still pushing the divorce in my face.<P>She asked me to move back in once to give it one more try. She said then that she'd do anything to make it work including having a baby, but not right away. She said she would consider having a child now because the separation has brought her closer to her family and made her realize what is important in life. I don't know if I believe that though. All these years she wanted perfection and now when we are on the verge of disaster, she says she wants a child. Yeah, right.<P>For the person who suggested I had a bad childhood, my parents have been married for 40 years. There are no divorces in my family at all. My wife never fit in with my family. I chose her despite this and have defended her and my choice to be with her always. SHE'S the one with the dysfunctional family.
Posted By: cl Re: I want children - 06/01/00 11:53 PM
dear poorme, so you are real? Assuming you are real, and these posts really do reflect your attitude about marriage, I have to wonder if you read the Harley material on this website? Or any of the books related to rebuilding your marriage? <BR>Thank goodness there are only "a thousand guys" that think this way. Otherwise there would be a major decline in population growth in this country. <BR>You have cheated on your wife. You have lied, deceived, pulled all sorts of tricks, and you want her to commit now? Without so much as a second look at what she is getting into? Where are you in counseling? What are you doing to win her back? And you are placing conditions on her? <BR>Please get His Needs/Her Needs and memorize it cover to cover. A very good source book for you is Compelled to Control by Miller.The Five Love Languages by Chapman may help you find some better ways to express yourself to you wife. Love is Never Enough by Beck is excellent for looking at self, personal growth, conflict resolution, insight. Maybe some of John Grays books (mars and venus) would help you understand that women and men are not basically the same with sex organs attahced as an afterthought.<BR>Are you aware of the responsibilites that come with bearing a child? ENORMOUS!!! And it does not end when you want to go party for the night or screw around. It lasts forever-not 18 yrs as popular literature would have one believe. While it appears that you are willing to bear the financial responsibility, you are not ready to be a true father-you are not ready to put the child above all else. You are still in taker mode, which is a dangerous place to be for a father and husband. <BR>Lecture on hold....I have to cook FOR THE KIDS. Kids are always first poorme, remember that pearl.
Posted By: poorme Re: I want children - 06/02/00 12:48 AM
Alright. I have read what the "betrayeds" have posted and I know that I am not the only one out there who has done these things and am not the only one who has feelings that their needs are not being met. When it's one of your husbands, you all flock to get his needs met, but when it's someone who knows what he wants you lecture and condemn. Well, guess what? I am real and I was looking for some real feedback, but found only judgment. This is definitly not helping. <P>I'm out of here.
Posted By: soulloss Re: I want children - 06/02/00 01:26 AM
poorme, it's just that your very way of thinking is disrespectful and derogatory to your wife ...<P>no, not all the other betrayers are like you....I have not seen such an ego in quite a long time....don't get all pissed off.....hold on....it's that you need to make some changes too...<P>depending on when you disclosed the information about your affairs to her, she could be going through the most painful thing she has ever emotionally felt...you need to bealot more patient, first of all...<P>do you realize you have repeatedly betrayed her, the trust she had in you, the vows you exchanged, the whole way she looks at and sees the world has changed...<P>can you grasp that?....some of us have wanted to die....from the choking and searing pain this sort of betrayal brings on....<P>have you even dealt with her feellings regarding your multiple affairs????....<P>I mean really dealt with them....<P>but I must admit, I have never seen a cavalier attitude like yours before...<P><BR>maybe you could try some baby steps....for instance....instead of saying :<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poorme:<BR><B><BR> My wife never fit in with my family. I chose her despite this and have defended her and my choice to be with her always.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>how about trying:<P>'My wife never fit in with my family. She chose me despite this....and I am thankful'<P>you just come across as thinking that you are such hot $hit, and your wife is just so beneath you, and you lowered yourself to even marry her, and you cheat repeatedly on her, but don't trust her to be honest about birth control ?...you make it seem like you are doing her a big favour to even be considered by you...please, poorme, do you hear yourself???...<P>my H and I won't be having our 2nd child for quite some time....I could not have a child with someone who has just done this to me...<P>read the books suggested here if you really and truly love your wife....consider it a dare...<P>I know you're real, and you have a very big problem that can and will change your life....<P>i just can't believe your attitude.... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><BR>Dylan<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles
Posted By: cl Re: I want children - 06/02/00 01:29 AM
poorme, sorry you feel that this is passing judgement. You posted some queries, and some of us see things different than you. No need to get defensive or angry: this is a real life lesson in communication! <BR>You can certainly find other sites where there might be one person that will agree with some of your statements, but I doubt it will be a Marriage Building site. <BR>If you want to try to repair the damage, read the info! It is all here for you. You say you are an intelligent man, lets see some action to correct the problems. <BR>I hear a lot of blame and anger, which may be considered normal for a betrayer in some stages. <BR>Compelled to Control is a great book. It may help you understand one of your first statements regarding your wife. You siad that you married her KNOWING she did not want to have more children, but that change was anticipated by you. <BR>Please READ!!!
Posted By: trying2_4give Re: I want children - 06/02/00 01:31 AM
I'm glad it's only a thousand too. First off the reason you are not getting any support because you truly sound like a spoiled brat who was handed everything with no real responsibility to work for anything. You sound like you need a mother to take care of YOU YOU YOU and forget about her needs. You come across as a VERY IMMATURE AND YOUNG BOY, who is crying because he is not getting a toy that he wants. These are REAL people here who want to UNDERSTAND and HEAL. You want someone to answer in the way that YOU want them to. It sounds like you have a self-image problem by stating that you have a pick of many woman, by the fact that you had to tell your wife that she had better not change and stop having sex with you or you will go outside the marriage. You have no communication skills what-so-ever. Their are a lot of us that have no communication skills, but we RECOGNIZE this and are trying to work on it. The one thing you did agree on is that you are a MAJOR CONFLICT AVOIDER and you prove it with the whiney. YOU ARE ALL NOT PERFECT, I'M LEAVING, I'M OUTTA HERE! When you can seat down like an adult and type something using your brain and not your ego then get back to us and then we can work through this to understand what and how to get your marriage on the right tracks, if that's what you truly want for you, now for how it looks to everyone else.
Posted By: poorme Re: I want children - 06/02/00 02:36 AM
Alright. I am sorry, if I offended you guys. This is my last attempt. I am serious about needing some advice, but can't talk to my wife because I am afraid of getting the same type of stuff from her. This is not encouraging me to stay.<P>I am here because my wife comes here and thought it would be a good place for me to help me decide what to do. When you bash me, when all of you have the same story, it doesn't make sense to me!<P>Anyway, I do love my wife. She's the most sexy, beautiful, and smartest women I've ever seen, but she HAS changed. I don't know if I can trust her to not hold the past over my head forever. I don't know if she is telling me the truth about wanting to have babies or if she is just trying to keep us together. I know that having a family is important to me. Despite what you say, I don't know any reason why I shouldn't have that.<P>All my freinds have wives who wait on them hand and foot. You'd think my wife would at least be able to get up and get me a drink, but she tells me to get it myself. My wife works in the house and has the nerve to complain about what a rough day she had. I wish I could watch tv all day. You's think she'd be able to do the laundry and keep the house clean since she's home all day, but she can't even do that. I work hard, so I don't want to deal with that stuff. It makes me just want to leave.<P>I don't even think she really loves me. I went out on her because she was rejecting me. Every time I put my arms around her when we were sleeping, she pulled away. She said she didn't know she was doing it, but I think she did. Other women don't do that. <P>Since I've been out of the house, life's just so much more fun. I don't have to walk on eggshells anymore. I can be myself without having to worry about upsetting her and having her cry about something. I'm happier, but sometimes I miss her.<BR> <BR>But she's solid, you know? You can depend on her. If you need to know something, she knows it. If you need something done, she can help. But that isn't enough. <P>I know our court date is coming up and I am running out of time. I didn't go back home when she asked me to, and she's acting like it is already over. I don't know that I really have any choice in if we can get back together or not. I don't even know if I want to, but the thought of having it final makes me nervous.<P>I have until Monday to figure it out and do something. It might already be too late. Letting go of her is harder than I ever thought. She's got so much integrity. That's not easy to find. I miss her. I hate her.
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: I want children - 06/02/00 02:55 AM
Wait wait wait ! Hold it right there.<P>Do what she's supposed to ? Ok , were you supposed to cheat ? Were you supposed to let her think you accepted that she didn't want kids and then change your mind ?<P>Look a wife is not a dog or a slave. You can't just treat her badly and then expect her to do what you want. If you talk to her like you post about her, then you are lucky she hasn't divorced you.<P>Either you love her, for who she is, how she is or you don't. Stop trying to control her.<P>All you will do is hurt her and yourself. Love her accept her learn to meet HER needs and you might be suprised at the difference it can make.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>
Posted By: cl Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:04 AM
hello poorme...seems you are real, you are reading. Where are you in counseling? <BR>Disrespectful judgements are an issue for you. Have you read that part? <BR>
Posted By: MENTAL Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:07 AM
Poorme,<P>Your last line in the above post made me smile.....I miss her. I hate her. Have you ever turned that around....she may also feel that way.<P>You said you can't trust her....so you are not sure you want to give it try......turn that around.....don't you even understand that she feels the same way.<P>You know...I can't offer you some perfectly wonderful....intelligent....college educated advice....because I am not perfectly wonderful....intelligent or college educated.<P>I am simply a human being who has been destroyed by the man I loved so much.<P>I have watched my children walk through the last year, confused, feeling unloved by their father and on the verge of depression.<P>It is not a pretty sight. It breaks my heart....it can literally make me collapse in my bed at night sobbing for God to do something....help us in some way.<P>Our lives have been totally turned upside down. <P>Some of the words you said about your wife have been echoed to me plenty of times.<P>I was the perfect wife....when I did exactly what he said. If I strayed from perfection...I was punished. I did things for him because I loved him, not because he told me to.<P>If my H told me to get him a beer....I would also tell him to get it himself. But I would have loved to get him one....but because I wanted too, not because he "told" me to.<P>I was told that I sat on my fat a$$ and did nothing all day. Well you better not even go there.....any mother who stays home with their children is doing something...not sitting on their butts. You may be able to do it here and there....but try doing it day in and day out. Try getting up in the middle of the night to comfort your child with an earache......you rock them....singing in their ear...stroking their face and wishing the pain to go away. Your exhausted....go to bed only to be woken up again and again through the night. Finally when the child gets some sleep you get some....only to have your H come home and ask what you have done all day.<P>My stbx told me how other women found him sexy...he could have his pick.....but I should feel proud he picked me. You know what...I was proud to be his wife, but it was sickening to hear him "tell" me I needed to be proud.....but I was also humiliated for what he did to me and his family.<P>Many men feel that respect and fear go hand in hand. I do not respect someone that makes me fear them. I only fear someone I don't respect. And fear does not only include abuse.....It also includes fearing control, fearing rejection, fearing love, fearing your not good enough, fearing you'll never be good enough.<P>Like you said....I miss him. I hate him.
Posted By: peppermint Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:13 AM
Excuse me, but not all male betrayers are arrogant, chauvanistic jerks. Many are just people who made a terrible mistake, accept responsibility for it, and try to repair the damage they did. <P>My husband had a brief affair, but he has ALWAYS been respectful of me and appreciative of the things I do for him. I am also a stay-at-home wife, and he never fails to recognize the value of what I do and the contributions I make in our home. <P>As to your claim that all your "friends" have wives that wait on them hand and foot, perhaps those husbands are the kind of men who make their wives WANT to do things for them out of love and mutual respect.<P>I must agree that your posts have provided a valuable service. My biggest concern about my husband has always been his selfish, thoughtless attitude. But compared to you, my husband is a jewel, an angel, a saint, and a superstar in the marriage world.<P>I cannot imagine the hardships your poor wife has endured. I doubt there is anyone else on this site who is surprised that this woman would not want to have a child or continue in a marriage with a man like you.<P>You need serious counseling, prayer, and anything else that might open your eyes. You came to the wrong place looking for validation of your attitudes, behaviors, and opinions. You came to the right place if you are looking for assistance and guidance in evolving into a good marriage partner. Which were you really looking for?<P>Peppermint
Posted By: Connor Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:27 AM
There are also those who have made mistakes in regard to infidelity that believe your thoughts and views about marriage are a little off base, to say the least (I betrayed and my husband did as well). <P>I hate the fact that there are two segments here..I no longer see myself as the betrayer, but a woman in love with her husband that overcame some serious obstacles. You need some help, if what you've said here is what you truly believe. In all honesty (and you need not get defensive like you've done all along) you have some serious growing up to do..."many women would love to be in my wife's shoes"...or something along those lines. What an ego. Obviously, you would understand that this is not conducive to a marriage partner that can contribute anything positive at all to the marriage. If you are truly serious about seeking help here, I would suggest you really do some serious thinking about your views on yourself and marriage. They are skewed, to say the least.<P>Your wife sounds like someone who has been through much, but I would really love to see her posts and what she has to say about all of this.
Posted By: TheStudent Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:47 AM
Having a child is a huge responsibility. It takes much more to be a good father than just paying the bills. It is not your wife's "duty" to procreate for you, especially since she made herself very clear before she married you. You don't have a whole lot of respect for your wife, sounds like. Ya know? There is a mind/feelings/soul attached to the uterus you married. <P>
Posted By: firestorm Re: I want children - 06/02/00 03:49 AM
Poorme<P>I think everyone here has really had a fair shot at you in this thread. As I read through them I don't think any betrayers have responded but I may be wrong. So, here I go. To start with, I hope I am not in the group of thousands of men that you talk about that are just like you. I, like you, am selfish. This is a trait that has been with me for all of my years of life. It is also something that I know I must change if I want to keep my wife. WE BOTH NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT OURSELVES IN RESPECT TO THAT. <P>As I read your post you made it seem as though you are God's gift to women. I don't think God meant for a man to be a gift to anyone. God created man, then gave him a woman as an equal partner. Have you ever looked at a woman as anything else other than an object?<P>You said women are throwing themselves at your feet to be with you. Well, let's see. I could have women throwing themselves at my feet if I went to a neighboring city and walked down the right street with $500 in my hand. But, is this the kind of woman I would fall in love with? I don't think so. I would bet you right now that if you treated your wife with love, respect, admiration, and care, she would be willing to get you a drink or whatever you needed. Then on the other hand, have you ever considered getting up to get her something? Have you ever considered doing anything special just for her?<P>View your wife, and all women, as an equal. I think your wife would throw herself at your feet, but why would you want her to? I do wish you luck and will finish with this. Take a look at yourself, AND CHANGE.
Posted By: Beyond depressed Re: I want children - 06/02/00 04:01 AM
Doesn't it sound as if Poorme could be saying the same things about his dog? If she doesn't give me pups or do as I say, I'm not going to invest any more time or money in her. Isn't that what dogs are for after all?..pups! If she doesn't want to give me pups, there are tons of dogs at the dog shelter who will give me pups. After all I own her and it's really all about ME! I don't care if her previous owner abused her, it's really all about ME! Whew...
Posted By: Distrusting Re: I want children - 06/02/00 05:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am here because my wife comes here and thought it would be a good place for me to help me decide what to do. When you bash me, when all of you have the same story, it doesn't make sense to me!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>No offense poorme, but apparently there's a reason for it. We're not all clones and if this many people say that your way of thinking is extremely selfish and derogatory, there's seriously a reason for it. We're here to help people. It's not like we're here waiting in the trenches with foaming mouths for someone like you to come along, so that we can feel better about ourselves. It doesn't work that way! Maybe it's time that you do some serious self reflection. <P>I feel sorry for you if you have to spend your entire life with this kind of thinking. It definitely won't be a very productive or happy life. Nobody could ever live up to those expectations. Unless of course you go to Asia and find yourself a Geisha. Apparently, they're still around. Other than that, you're looking for somebody who just doesn't exist. Do you think maybe it's time to make some adjustments in your thinking? Something definitely has to change.<P>Just my two cents. Take it or leave it!<P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>
Posted By: buffy Re: I want children - 06/02/00 07:02 AM
<BR>Poorme, you kinda got in a bee's nest didn't you. Most of the people who come here have been through a lot to save their marriages. <BR>I afraid they see a little bit of their spouses in you.<P>You probably are sincere about wanting help, but you need some basic understanding of real life marriage before you can be helped.<P>You seem to have a very structured view of marriage...husband earns the living and wife takes care of the family and home and takes care of husband's needs(all his needs)...all neat and tidy. <P>There are no entitlements in marriage...a husband does not automatically deserved his wife's waiting on him, providing him with children, keeping the house clean, keeping him sexual satisfied, etc. <P>A woman is a giving nurturing creature when she feels that her contributions are appreciated and her feelings respected. <BR> <BR>If you really want to save this marriage or possibly yourself from similar problems in future relationships, don't run off, stay awhile and read because there's a lot to be learned here about building a good marriage based on love, honesty, mutual respect and good communication.<P> <BR>Buffy
Posted By: PLEASE HELP Re: I want children - 06/02/00 08:13 AM
GUYS GUYS HOLD ON HOLD ON!! <BR> Did you hear him say that his W COMES HERE!! HIS WIFE IS HERE!!! HE MUST be a good guy or HE WOULDN'T HAVE COME HERE TO GET HELP!! How would you feel if YOUR WS came here and got all this FIRE??????<P> Please try and remember how YOU felt until you LEARNED and GREW!!<BR> Poorme,<BR> YOU LOVE YOUR WIFE. YOU WANT HELP. I saw some progress in your LAST post. You didn't feel loved and you NOW still think your W doesn't love you. AND.... all the chest pounding about other women wanting you. I'm sure it's true but I think DEEP down you really DON'T want ANYONE but YOUR WIFE. Am I right?? <P> Take a deep breath!!! Stall the Divorce and try and be a little less defensive and this place WILL help you save your Marriage and you WILL have the Marriage you always wanted!!<P> I can understand the defensive beginning to your asking for help here. MOST of us have been betrayed and you're feeling a little guilty about doing it to your W. THE WOMAN YOU STILL DO LOVE!! <P> It will take work but mostly it's easy with the right TOOLS!!<BR> AND I'm SURE my brothers and sisters here at MB WILL take a different attitude ONCE YOU let your defenses DOWN and SHOW us what you REALLY want and who you REALLY are. They are really VERY caring and loving people. They don't NEED the WALLS OK?<BR> <BR>I BELIEVE you ARE a good man, or you never would have come here. <P> OK GUYS......... LET'S HELP THIS GUY AND OUR UNKNOWN MB SISTER SAVE THEIR MARRIAGE!!!<P> Come on now...... you KNOW why he said all that crap!!!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<BR> Poor me, We really are here for you and don't want YOU to hurt either. RIGHT GUYS?????<P> GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited June 02, 2000).]
Posted By: Gonnatry Re: I want children - 06/02/00 02:00 PM
Oops! Not sure what happened to my post so nevermind.<p>[This message has been edited by Gonnatry (edited June 03, 2000).]
Posted By: rs0522 Re: I want children - 06/03/00 05:08 AM
Dear poorme -<P>If you only need advice, here is my $.02 worth. <P>No, you should not have children. Your marriage is in no shape for it, nor are either of you. <P>Your wife told you up front that she didn't want children, and you married her. Since then, the marriage has not gone very well, and you and she seem to be going back and forth trying to decide what you want. Your wife is trying out the idea of children to see if it changes anything, for you or for her. <P>It won't. <P>Whether you divorce or not, it would be best for you to start doing what people should do after they begin the process of recovering from a major mistake. Figure out what you did to cause the problem, without making apologies or justifications for yourself, and then start changing yourself so that you become aware of yourself when you start doing those things again. Don't expect things to improve until you get a few years of practice in doing this. <P>And you'd best be damn sure that you have improved before you start bringing children into the world. <P>It's called 'growing up', and the best time to start doing it is now.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522
Posted By: catnip Re: I want children - 06/03/00 02:32 AM
Welcome, Poorme, to the forum. <P>You will glean much insight from the betrayers and betrayed alike. Once you drop the defenses and realize we are very frank with eachother, you will no longer feel singled out. Many come here with excuses in the beginning.<P>What has caused the hard line response from the forum members is the disrespectful judgments about your wife. Some here have perceived your attitude to be arrogant and pompous.<BR>I don't see it that way. I think you are simply trying to convince yourself and your wife and maybe even us that you are quite a catch because deep down you feel that you are 'lacking' and you need to display a false bravado to feel better about yourself. Isn't that what chronic affairs are? A person with low self worth trying to find a way to make themselves feel better about themselves?<P>Perhaps you think you can have 'any cow in the herd', but do you really want to settle for one of them? <BR>The "Other Women" are usually so needy and desperate, they just would never measure up to the quality woman your wife is. Especially when you have a wife you claim is the most beautiful, sexy and intellegent woman you've ever known.<P>Don't be angry with the people here. You have really been pushing our buttons sounding like a exaggerated characature of all our wayward spouses.<P>You will find your soul if you stay here and gain much insight. I hope you'll stay. You may be able to restore your marriage and learn a lot about yourself as well.<P>Good luck<P>Catnip =^^+<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited June 02, 2000).]
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