Marriage Builders
Please do tell, I need to know...<P>Do you run pictures of you and this woman? Don't you find the idea of sex with a stranger to be gross?<P>Or do you see a woman with attitude strutting her stuff and wish to dominate her?<P>Or is it something else?<P>I don't think I've seen this described anywhere. We're told men are more visual and are "turned on" by sexy women...
I have lusted after a woman besides my wife in years. I have sexual thoughts of other women, but not to the point of lusting after them. But when I have/had lusting thoughts, I generally imagine having sex with them, nothing very elaborate or romantic, like a romance book or something, just sex. <P>I think that for some of us men, the fact that she may be a stranger is part of what turns us on, I guess you could call it the "we want what we can't have" syndrome.
Schizzo,<P>This is an interesting question! Yes, we men are VERY visually oreinted creatures.<P>For me there are varying levels interest in looking at other women. I find great beauty in the shape of a woman's body, so sometimes I am just looking to appreciate that beauty. <P>Sometimes it is looking to imagine what a woman is like sexually - the novelty or curiosity factor.<P>The fact that this would be sex with a stranger doesn't enter the equation - this is shallow fantasizing. No chance of this occurring, so those kinds of details don't matter.<P>Hope this helps!
I think I am very visual. Sometimes I look at another woman & wonder what it would be like to be intimate with her. Sometimes it seems like a little variety would be fun, but I'm sure it would be a disappointment, in reality. My wife is a terrific lover & I'm sure anyone else would pale in comparison.<P>Now if I could just get her interested again...<P>------------------<BR>Nick<BR>I love her not because of who <BR>she is, but because of who I <BR>am when I am with her.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Or do you see a woman with attitude strutting her stuff and wish to dominate her?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, is this rather unusual? <P>
JL,<P>are you out there?<P>Maybe I could change the question...<P>Do you know any guys that would let their tongues hang out at the sight of a pretty woman?<P>Young boys are feeling a bit insecure and doing more than looking for love...Many times they see a pretty woman and would like to have POWER over her. They may intellectually see women as people, but at some level they are sex objects to be CONQUERED.<P>What I'm trying to ask is how much of this continues to be a part of the male psyche???
In changing the question somewhat, along with the other statements that you have highlighted, I am assuming that you are assuming that men for the most part, want to dominate women. I would assume that there are men out there who only see women as objects to be used for their pleasure, but I wouldn't classify all of us men as such. I would agree that as youngsters we looked at "scoring" with women as a contest, the more women we were able to convince to get in the sack, the more of a man we were, and admittedly there are still many men like that. However I don't think it is because they want to dominate them or have power over them, I think it is more of getting a sense of being a "real" man, being able to brag to the fellas that he was able to score with "so and so". Yes, some of us men still brag and have contests about who can score the most, it's a shame, but it still happens in locker rooms all over this country.<P>In reference to the woman with attitude strutting her stuff, again I don't know if it is really about dominating her, as much as it is about some men wanting to "put her in her place", but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with any sexual thoughts or desires, putting her in her place could be about taking her down a notch or two, but sex doesn't necessarily have to come into the picture. I know for me, if I come across a woman who has "attitude" and that attitude is something that I would consider a negative, I simply try to avoid her, and if I can't avoid her, then I simply let her know that I won't deal with a lot of SH$% that I don't have to, but it isn't about wanting to dominate her, I would do the same if it was a man.
Thanks F A, Where is JL?<P>I'm just trying to understand...<P>He tells me this is what he thinks, she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss. He's not proud of it, but that is what triggers in him???
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>.....she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sounds more like a figure of speech to me. This may sound kinda crude, but when we "manly men" get together, this is how we talk to each other. Sex is the answer for everything, for example.....If a woman supervisor is tough and no nonsense, she is usually labled a BIT%$ who needs a good FU$%, or when talking about a lesbian who may happen to be very attractive, men will often say something like....."if she got a good fu$%, she would leave those women alone", or if a woman happens to be in a not so good mood, it's because she didn't "get any last" night.<P>So from the statement that you put in your posts, it pretty much sounds like your husband is just using a figure of speech that is most understood by us "manly men" [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>
Schizzo,<P>I like this question!<P>FA has given you a lot of good insight. I'll add mine.<P>The visual image of a sexy, beautiful or at least cute woman is a powerful trigger that causes me to be delighted by what I see. Then it causes me to imagine what she looks like in lengerie, or with nothing at all. Next, I imagine her finding me attractive enough to cause her to want to be seductive and pursue me sexually, (ego trip here?) to almost actively dominate me sexually, in any type of setting: hot tub, under the stars, in an opulent bedroom, in the back seat (of a big car, not in a VW Beetle like I tried once, long ago) etc..... and then I imagine hot, passionate can't get enough of you sex with her. I don't have to know her at all. It's the imagined activity and it's attending sensations and ego gratification that are important in the lustful fantasy, not the person herself.<BR>I know it sounds gross and impersonal to a woman, but at least for me, it's an ego trip, a challenge, a game, to attempt to attract the attention of an attractive woman and seduce her, if nothing else in your fantasy world. I think women do much the same with men if they would admit it.<BR>The problem is, when it is acted out on the real stage of life, the consequences can be devastating. Guess I had to find out the hard way......<BR>Rockaway<BR> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by rockaway (edited September 29, 2000).]
schizzo,<P>I read this and tried to decide if I had enough time to answer what I suspect is a loaded question but very deep. I guess I'll give it my best shot.<P>I guess I'll start by saying you are asking a much harder question than you know. Let me start by saying what I experience because I can really only explain it from that perspective. Sex drive for men is very insidious. It starts with some thoughts about sex, then it begins to build so that ideas of sex (women, form, texture, etc) start to occur more frequently (every few minutes). THen it builds and it is continually running in your mind ( I mean continually). You are trying to work and you are parallel processing (one instance sex, the next work, study whatever).<P>Now, you are ripe for lust because sex is really on your mind as the hormones take over. As, 2sad4words, said I love the female form, so what happens is that every woman you see, you begin to imagine her form. It doesn't have to be perfect, in fact the "imperfections" are more fascinating. You look, you imagine. (What does she look like from this angle, that angle, clothes on, clothes off, whatever). <P>Now if the lust focuses on a certain woman, then sexual acts may come to mind. I suspect that there you begin to see a divergence of what each man goes to. The fantasy I am sure has to do with their experiences and upbringing. For some it may be a revenge type of thing, domination, others a seduction fantasy (you seduce her), or others the fantasy may be she seduces you. But in all cases and more that I haven't mentioned, you can "feel", "taste", "want", and "crave" like few other things in your life.<P>This goes on constantly in most men's lives. You learn to control it, you learn to avoid situations, you learn that sexual relief, and even better sex with emotional connection pushes these intense fantasies further way for longer periods of time. You also learn, that given the right situation, when you are weakest, you are almost defenseless. That can be scary.<P>Why do you think the Muslims cover up their women? It isn't because the women are weak, it is because the men know they are. The less to fantasize about the better. We have gone the opposite direction, guess what? rape is much higher, infidelity is up, etc.<P>So schizzo, I don't know where you want to go with this, but you must understand that the visualization is so strong that concepts of gross, etc. are not really relavent. Most men learn to handle these strong drives, but they are ubiquitous in our every day lives.<P>When men say women have no idea, they are not kidding. We have such a hard time understanding how women "don't" think about sex all of the time. Therefore, when they don't it can only mean one thing, they find us repulsive.<P>schizzo, I cannot and have not adequately described what goes on. It is very complex and of course so natural to me, that I don't think about it. But women are always amazed that men can be attracted to what women feel are unattractive women, but when the hormones are rushing and the inhibition are down, all women look beautiful to men, if only for awhile.<P>Hope this at least addressed a little of what you are asking.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>Thanks F A, Where is JL?<P>I'm just trying to understand...<P>He tells me this is what he thinks, she needs some *** to take her down a notch, show her who is boss. He's not proud of it, but that is what triggers in him???</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I may be off base here, but you are probably asking the wrong guys questions of this nature. The guys on these boards are here because they are kind, caring, sensitive, guys that have respect for their wives and women in general. If we wouldn't we probably wouldn't be on this site because we would feel that we don't need help and all the problems belong to our spouses.<P>I am not trying to say that your husband is in another category. I am just commenting on the guys on this board. <P>What do you think guys?<P>Reborn<BR>
It has crossed my mind that the guys on the board are a special bunch! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>JL, you came close to explaining it to me. My h and I are exploring this because I believe there is a big risk that he will cheat again no matter how wonderful our marriage is becoming. Not a nice thought!<P>In fact, he said he believes he would, given the right circumstances.<P>Yeah, I guess his fantasies are more domination, he was very shy as a young man.<P>However, I don't think this was a factor in either of his As. He had an emotional connection with them. I think sex is much more emotional for men than most are willing to admit.<P>It is a loaded question, and I am looking for more than "well, I'll try to avoid certain situations." He has always done that, avoiding situations that many men would never think twice about: working with women, lunches, commutes...
schizzo,<P>Then he knows have the answer. I have never cheated on my W. I don't view that as a great moral statement, but rather a statement that I realize my vulnerabilities and stay away from situations that I know to be risky. I don't go drinking when I travel. I stay out of bars when I travel. I may have a drink or two at a meal, but I don't go where women are hanging out. schizzo, I am 55 years old and I still do this although I do travel quite abit.<P>schizzo, I believe your H is being honest with you, but I don't think you should be afraid of this honesty. You see I believe his statement holds for many men. Traveling makes the chances of being in the wrong place a bit greater. Oddly, because he is amoung strangers and he is a stranger. More likely for a woman to come on to him.<P>AS for the domination fantasy, it is pretty normal I suspect, especially of shy or insecure people. I don't mean that as a negative at all, for most boys fall into that category, heck even some of the most "successful" boys in HS fall into that category.<P>In all honesty, from a society standpoint and a marriage standpoint, there is little difference if an H is seduced or does the seducing. The result is the same, so you pick your poison.<P>Your problem is the usual trust. It is not specific to him by any means. The drives and the fantasies are almost constant schizzo, in virtually all men.<P>It seems to me you two should keep talking, but take his honesty for what it is. It isn't a deep seated desire to cheat on you, he is stating the simple fact that men do have these strong drives.<P>By the way I do think your are right, the emotional side of sex is very important to most men. It is what separates real sex from fantasy sex or even masturbation. It is much more satisfying and the relief from the fantasies last much longer. (days instead of hours).<P>Quite frankly what will keep your H from cheating is the same that keeps any WS from cheating. Fear of losing you. He is more aware of how much it hurt you and by definition him and the children. So it will add to his ability to resist. Your traveling with him also helps, but you will not always be able to do that.<P>So the usual advice still applies, Plan A, him and live by the normal rules of a good relationship. Harley's four rules are as good as any. But do keep talking with him, it seems that the two of your are getting to know one another very well. Plus hopefully, the guys that responded here will have given you some insight.<P>Oh! and by the way, the responses I have seen here are not special, they are pretty normal. We don't objectify sex and women any more or less than the average guy,is my guess. It is just the misinterpretation of what a sex drive really is in men. It is chemical and it is constant, so initially any woman will do. It is the other things that make a given woman special us. Believe me on this. Finally, believe me when I say, this process is not a learned thing, that men can just stop the fantasies. <P>I believe that many women think that and certainly popular dogma seems to try and reenforce it with the "a woman should be able to wear anything she wants anywhere she wants". In theory a true statement but in reality a very stupid thing to do. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Hope this is of some help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<BR>
Thank-you so much again, JL.<P>I understand your last paragraph very well, that guys just are that way and it is certainly irresponsible of women to think they can dress anyway, say no at any time. They have that right, but it is highly irresponsible!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Your problem is the usual trust. It is not specific to him by any means. The drives and the fantasies are almost constant schizzo, in virtually all men.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>An issue of trust, yes. But I need something to trust in - he tells me, as you said in all honesty, that he believes he would do it again if he is in the "right situation".<P>We have a wonderful relationship. He now knows firsthand the pain it causes (we read Harley before he cheated, but he has to KNOW for himself). Don't you see that I need more than "I will go back to avoiding bad situations"? It's a start, but I need more.<P>Then, you said it was fear of losing me.<P>I told him I would leave if he ever cheated. Most of us have said that here on MB. He seems to remember me telling him once was ok???<P>I don't believe I could go through all this again, but can't say until tested. If anything, he might well say to himself, "she won't leave, look how quickly she forgave me."<P>
schizzo,<P>Any man or woman for that matter can say that. What you need to see is that the situation is changing. I believe you posted he is taking more of an interest in the children, he is taking more of an interest in you. schizzo, the only thing that holds all of this together is our commitment. Our commitment to do our best to do the right thing. Threats won't really stop someone determined to do the wrong thing, but once the potential loses are realized, then often that will do.<P>schizzo, there are many very religiou people who up until the day they cheated would tell you that their religious beliefs would never allow them to do it, but they do. If you are looking for an iron clad guarentee, then I think you are out of luck.<P>Yes, your H has had several affairs, but has he had one since you found out about them? Has he had the opportunity? I suspect the answer is no and yes. You cannot get that guarentee you want. You seem to have two choices trust him or not. Which will make you feel better?<P>I know it is easier to trust a man who hasn't cheated on you, but every cheating man was one of those once. Now a track record should not be ignored, but neither should changes in the spouses perspective, behavior, and awareness. They count also.<P>So it seems to me, you have all the guarentee you will ever have, but you have done a lot to help protect your marriage. It sounds as if H has done so as well. Rejoice in that and enjoy life. You don't need to cross the next infidelity bridge until you come upon it and you may very well may never see that bridge. <P>I surely pray that you don't.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
Schizzo-<BR>I think the responses to your question have helped me understand my H's jealously, somewhat. He tells me that he thinks he's not worthy of me, that he has no business being with me. Given the visually oriented male psyche, I can see into his blurry mind a bit.<BR>I used to be a model. I'm into my 30's now, but I've stayed in shape. I've been compared to Michelle Pfieffer and Rene Russo many times. When I have been at the supermarket or K-mart, etc, I have been stopped by men who seem to have just been struck stupid and they range from asking directions to the toothpaste aisle to just blurting out some stupid line. Some of these I remember:<BR>"You're the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Will you marry me?"<BR>From a pair of teenage boys (?!)<BR>"Wow, lady, you've got the greated legs I've ever seen! Are you a dancer?"<BR>Other times, I just get followed up and down the aisles by some creepy middle-aged man who pauses his cart every time I need to get something from the bottom shelf.<BR>Given that my H probably understands the male visual thing, he feels that I have to run a minefield daily. He said "Every time I see you, I just want to screw your brains out! Look at you! I can't be the only one who feels that way."<BR>H also knows that I love to make love, and I have few inhibitions. We've played little games, made home movies, played dressup, and we both have a good time. Now he thinks my eagerness for him means I'd be eager for anyone. <BR>By the way, I understand the constant fantasy thing. I'd say 10 to 20 times a day, I just let myself have a little naughty daydream, and it doesn't have to be my husband in my head. IT can be Brad Pitt, the UPS man, or my dentist. The point is, it's only in my head! My H couldn't handle that. He tells me he doesn't ever let himself think about other women. But he reads Playboy! (So do I. The cartoons are funny.)<BR>Is the visual thing what makes men jealous? They don't trust one another? Or they don't trust their wives? <BR>Any feedback? His jealously is rapidly destroying my love for him.
I've been away for a bit and just reading this post...I know it's for men but I have learned some interesting things about men's lust and desire recently that I am finding very interesting and enlightening...<P>I have recently met many divorced, seperated, or divorcing men in the last few weeks...kinda a support group for broken hearts...something I have found is that men do - have that 'tongue hanging out' lust feeling for a woman that attracts them and although they react initially in that way - what they really want is to LOVE a woman - I've found more men that want to be gentle and tender with a woman they are attracted to and just be close - sex or not.....<P>The men I have met WANT to tell you about how they feel in their heart - they actually will freely open their hearts to a woman - that was a new experience for me as my H is very emotionless. And - what they say is that they want to just love a woman - it is a very intense feeling for them. They find the closeness very erotic.<P>The most interesting part of this is that these are young men - when I was young - I only remember the lust/dominate attitude - but the younger generation is definitely enlightened and really want the intense intimacy with a woman...:-)<P>That left me feeling very happy...now if more woman could open themselves up to recieving that intense feeling of connection (and I don't mean this as a slam - just an observation)(sometimes - me included - we close ourselves off to that intense close feeling because we have been hurt - atleast in my case) I think marriages would be healthy, happier and longer lived....<P>Just ramblings about some of my recent experiences......<P>J
Mourning,<P>Oh! Men trust other men. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] They trust them to try to try and make it with their W. The question in their mind is someone catch my W at a weak moment? A moment when she is mad at me, dissatisfied with me? <P>So to my mind it isn't that he doesn't trust you. He doesn't trust that he can keep you happy and satisfied. Yeah, it is a self esteem thing, coupled with the knowledge that your looks will attract alot of men. Solution take his fears as a compliment for in many ways they are.<P>Just keep loving and being faithful and it will work out.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
Just Learning-<BR>I would take his jealously as a compliment if he weren't so psychotic about it! I have been posting details on the Resolving Conflict message board. My topic is "How much violence is acceptable?" Read that, and you'll understand I don't feel complimented!<BR>He has become increasingly unstable and accusatory during our marriage, to the point where he has made me physically afraid of him at times.<BR>STill, these insights help me a bit. It's funny, I have several male friends from college who tell me that I think like a man. Maybe!
Hi Cindy,<BR> I just wanted to pop in and let you know that someone else has the same types of issues. I can totally relate to what you are thinking and how you feel about it. Although my H has never come right out and told me he would cheat again if the right circumstances arose,it's hard for me to honestly think otherwise and it really bothers me. <P>My H too is very honest about all the sexual fantasizing that goes on in his head on a daily basis. He comes home and tells me sometimes about the conversations he and his male co-workers have at work. He's admitted that sex is on their minds probably at least every 10 seconds [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] I always kind of feel like "geez,how can I compete with all the air-brushed woman they look at in magazines or the teeny boppers with 10+ bodies? I'm close to 40 years old and have 3 kids." I definitely do not have the body I had when I married him. I guess it bothers me so much because it seems like the fantasies are all based around looks and I feel like I just can't compete on that level anymore and his fantasizing is certainly not something that is going to go away.<P>Sometimes I feel like the insecurity will never leave me. I mean, I thought I had a handle on it all BEFORE he had an A because I REALLY thought I could trust him. With that LEVEL of trust pretty much shot now (I just don't think I will ever trust him the way I once did)I feel like I will live with this insecurity the rest of my life and frankly..it $**ks.It's just one of those things that nags at my brain as to whether a BS ever recovers COMPLETELY. I think we are a success and our marriage is better than ever but I do harbor some resentment that I still feel this lack of trust related to something that can't be changed(his sexual fantasizing). It makes me wonder, if later down the road, after years of feeling this way, something won't give and our marriage will end up falling apart as a result.
This thread took off over the weekend!<P>I know, mthrrhbard, I go forward in my marriage knowing he may cheat on me again, and I will end it if he does.<P>I don't think it is all about looks, though. Did you read Catplay's weighty thread?
Mourning,<P>I went and read some of your posts. This isn't jealousy Mourning, this is something far worse. For what its worth I am about your H's size and I admit to getting mad occasionally, but what you are talking about with a gun and tearing up the house isn't jealousy and it isn't normal for people even if they can get away with it. He has severe problems and you do need to protect yourself.<P>This has nothing to do with sex any more than the driver he ran off the road did. This man needs to undergo some serious counseling and medical evaluation.<P>I think you need to seriously consider leaving this situation. I guess I would really like to add, that you do need to understand why you go for the "boy toy" types with an obvious violent streak in them. They aren't the norm, so you must be seeking them out in some fashion.<P>Hope this causes you to think seriously about your situation, because it is serious.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
mthrrhbard,<P>I thought I would reply to you about your concerns. What is very hard to explain to women, is the looks thing. Now again I can only speak from my experience, but I have some confidence that what I am about to say is in the middle range of how some men respond.<P>You worry about being 40 + and not being able to compete with the young plastic hardbodies. Have you ever heard the saying "it pays to advertize" ? Your H like most men will respond to a women in a short skirt, a crop top especially if she has been enhanced, etc, but the initial attraction won't hold unless there is something else there.<P>Now you already have that something else. And in fact you are probably quite attractive to him. My W probably weighs about 30 pounds more than when we married, 25 years ago. She was very slender and relatively tall 5' 10" when we married. I found her very attractive, but she was not a great beauty. Now at 50 she carries her weight well, and in the right places [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] (hips and bust) and quite frankly I think she is very sexy.<P>What has happened? Well, I still find the Baywatch babes interesting [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]. However, I also find my W sexy. I have grown older I see things differently. I prefer a mature woman, I prefer "natural" woman. I do believe that there is "better living through chemistry", but I don't really think so with the human body.<P>I guarentee that you have the same body parts as the younger woman and men will and do find them interesting. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] It comes down to attitude on your part and confidence on your part. Your H had an affair, but he is with you. Why? Because he wanted to be with you.<P>You ladies need to understand. You H's had affairs but they chose you: twice or more. I am not absolving them of their affairs, but I think that you are forgetting that your H's still preferred you for many reasons. Now that you are more aware of the almost constant thoughts of sex, perhaps you will see that you now have power over your H's if you will use it. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Ladies, we are putty in your hands if only you pay attention. <P>So don't worry about the age thing so much or the sex issues so much. Just remember the one thing that is positively guarenteed to attract a man is enthusiasm. Make your life something you are enthusiastic about, make sex something you are enthusiastic about and I'll make a modest wager you won't lose those H's of yours, in fact you will have a hard time getting rid of them. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Please think about this. Yes, sex is important and we do think about it alot, but the good news for you is that we can fixate on many things and they don't have to come on a young hard body woman. In fact if you have read here often you will see that often when a man goes for a younger woman, it is the fact that she admires him, needs him, is anxious to be around him that attracts him. Notice I didn't say anything about sex?<P>Hope something here helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mourning:<BR><B>Just Learning-<BR>I would take his jealously as a compliment if he weren't so psychotic about it! I have been posting details on the Resolving Conflict message board. My topic is "How much violence is acceptable?" Read that, and you'll understand I don't feel complimented!<BR>He has become increasingly unstable and accusatory during our marriage, to the point where he has made me physically afraid of him at times.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Allow me to jump in here, Mourning. I have had some experience in this area. My STBX's ex-BF was a lot like your H, and he nearly killed her. I've also spent time doing work for battered women's shelters, and have talked to plenty of abused women as part of radio shows I've done in the past. I read your posts on the Resolving Conflict board, and I know you've been told over and over again, but here we go:<P>GET OUT OF THAT SITUATION NOW!<P>Not soon, not when you have the time, not when he hits you again, not when you're fed up, now, now, now!<P>You know, I'm sure Hitler was really charming and sweet to Eva Braun when he wanted to be! Reading your posts, I see a textbook case of an abused woman who is not only in serious denial, but in serious danger. The guns, baseball bats, mag lites, and other things that he keeps for "defense" can be turned on you before you know what's happening, or even why. The road rage incident shows he has only limited control of his temper, and you WILL find that limit. He WILL hit you again, count on it.<P>The thing you need to remember is, this jealousy has NOTHING to do with you, it is a product of his own insecurity. Just because you're a knockout doesn't give him any right whatsoever to be jealous and possessive. He is deathly afraid of losing you and has learned (with your help) that the threat of violence will keep you around. Every time he threatens you, your dogs, or anyone you know with violence, and you give in, you merely reinforce his behavior.<P>You've mentioned that he threatened your dogs with starvation...what do you think he will do to your children when he gets angry?<P>No excuses, leave him in the dust. Leave town if you have to (and you probably will), take the dogs to someone you trust, heck, I'd take them in if I could! Just please, get out. I've seen how this story ends, honey, and it ain't pretty.
Hello again,<BR> Yes, Cindy I saw the "weight" thread. I know the A isn't about looks. H has said OW was ordinary looking. In our case it was definitely about feeling needed and special and admired. It was the fatasizing part that I was referring to when I talked about looks. I know he's not fantasizing about anything ordinary,he's the Carmen Electra, Selma Hayek type of guy! LOL<P>Oh, Oh JL!!!!! NO NO NO NO NO! Not 40+ ,pushing 40! Please don't get me there any faster than I'm getting there on my own!!! LOL. Actually you made my day and I totally agree with you, I think you are right on the money, in my H's case anyway. Yes, he chose me for many very special reasons.He's a very different man than he was before,he's HAPPY,genuinely happy.<P>You are so right about the enthusiasm part. I had become an overworked mom and forgot about being a wife first. I had no energy left for H at the end of the day,especially when he wasn't even trying to meet any of my EN's. So it became a catch 22 situation. It could have easily been me having the affair, I just didn't have any opportunity (thank God)! When we first did the EN's questionaire, he didn't have any complaints about the frequency part of his sexual fulfillment need but wanted more enthusiasm. I quit my job and things couldn't be better, at least with that EN!!! Your input on this thread has been very helpful. Thank you for reminding me to see the glass half full instead of half empty!
Oh Clack!<BR>Please understand that he has never laid a hand on me! He has only blown hot air! <BR>Please, anyone who reads my posts understand: If he had hit me, I'd be gone already! I'm not stupid!<BR>Sorry to be defensive, but he has never hurt me, and I want that well understood!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So don't worry about the age thing so much or the sex issues so much. Just remember the one thing that is positively guarenteed to attract a man is enthusiasm. Make your life something you are enthusiastic about, make sex something you are enthusiastic about and I'll make a modest wager you won't lose those H's of yours, in fact you will have a hard time getting rid of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Truer words were never said.<P>Thanks to all of you for helping me understand this better.<P>I think his insecurities go far deeper than I had ever thought. He has been resistant to my seeking counselling for the deep depression I'm still in (no drugs, though). He is finally on board and I have my first appt. set up. In time, maybe he'll go himself.<P>He admits he is very threatened by the idea of me being strong and independent (healthy). <P>
schizzo,<P>If he is admitting that, you are far deeper into his heart than you realize. Take good care of it for him. You are right being stronger and healthier will help you and your H. But when people aren't certain of where they stand change is not viewed as optimum.<P>Keep talking with him and get help. I see you two coming through this very well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
I agree with JL, it sounds as if your husband is afraid of losing you. Schizzo, the one thing that you need to keep in mind is that the male ego is very fragile, very. It may be a warped way of looking at things, but I can see where your husband views your getting better, stronger and more independent as you no longer needing him. He views you as a very desirable woman, a woman that could probably have any other man that you want and that with you being healthier and more independent, you will go out and choose another man. <P>Again, it may be a warped way of looking at things, but sometimes the male ego is so fragile that it even turns the "logical" male brain into mush. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]
Wow, thanks for the quick replies.<P>JL, what do you mean far deeper into his heart? It is true that his perception of me has totally changed from ten months ago, when he stopped the affair. I think he was here because it was the right thing to do. It astounded me that he was so concerned about hurting OW, but was numb when it came to me...<P>F A - I have made it safe for him to tell me these things, but I sometimes feel he will never truly have my best interest at heart.<P>I do see that his admitting this is a big step for him...
schizzo,<P>What I mean is that if he is talking to you about his fears and concerns for your marriage, you are loved and needed more than you realize. He has let you into his heart and thinking far more than you seem to be aware of.<P>It is very likely that you now have the capability of hurting him far more than he can hurt you. And he is letting you know this. I suspect he worries that if you become healthier and more independent that you will take revenge on him and he knows you can. <P>Now one of two things are going to happen IMHO. One his vulnerability will make him very sensitive. He will then really go back into a shell to protect himself if he feels threatened. Or if things get even better you will see him come out even more.<P>I sense from what you have said that he has really grown to love you, enjoy your company, and to be willing to risk his feelings and heart by telling you of his fear of change.<P>Please think about this. You seem to have accomplished much more than you realize in the last 10 months.<P>God Bless,<P>JL
Dear Schizzo:<P>Wow! Great thread! Nice to get some insight into male *thinking*, don't ya agree?<P>What JL and FA say is incredible to me...who would have thought that our H's would FEAR us getting stronger...only to perhaps leave them in the dust...????? WOW! <P>Guess this explains why my H has asked me more than once, "Marie, you aren't going to leave me once the kids go off to college, are you?"....silly H! Doesn't he know that I'm truer than true????? Not jumping ship...here for the long haul????<P>Schizzo...I also posted on your counseling thread. As you read my response, I think you'll be able to surmise that I found counseling very "freeing"...and GOOD for me. It DID make me stronger...more sure of myself. Perhaps my H is slightly "leery" of the new and improved Marie [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]. Maybe not a bad thing to keep him on his toes!... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Peace, ~Marie
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