Marriage Builders
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb What is going on here ? - 10/08/00 04:52 PM
OK I have a major problem. I know something is wrong , I'm just not sure what.<P>Mike stopped kissing me execpt for a quick peck about 3 months ago. No real kisses, not even before or during sex. NONE !<P>And sex is like maybe every two or three weeks if I'm lucky. Oh and if I touch him he tells me not to grope him. Aarrrggghhhhh!<P>It feels like he's cheating again ! He says he's not (where have I heard that before ? Oh yeah, 2 years ago when he was cheating).<P>This hurts and I don't know what to do. I have talked to him about it, tried to explain how it makes me feel, he just refuses to do it. I don't have trench mouth or anything. I just don't understand, and he doesn't seem to care how much I need this from him.<P>Sometimes I wish I could do like he did and go find someone to give me that. But the thought makes me ill. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>
Posted By: justthewife Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 05:00 AM
Kissing is something intimate. Not like sex that can be done haphazardly he tells me. I'm so sorry you aren't getting what you need. Something doesn't sound right, maybe he isn't cheating again (hope not) but there might be something else going on with him that he doesn't want to open up to you in that way. If you guys were in counseling you could bring it up there and he would have to answer in some way. I know what you mean about wishing you could just do what they did, but it wouldn't make anything better, and we wouldn't get what we want from that anyway. Keep on trying - are you doing the 10 second kiss thing? That might make it a little easier to transition to where you want to be. Our shrink told us years ago that if we wanted to be married we had to at least pretend we liked each other. It did work. hugs to you, and I'd kiss you if I could!
Posted By: loveWASblind=lWb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/08/00 07:10 PM
i remember, a LONG time ago, at the beginning of this never-ending affair...when H would not kiss me at all. when i went to hug him, and he'd pull away, when he'd have sex with me and close his eyes as tight as he could...<BR>deb, it sucked, i hated it, and it hurt like daggers. now, after what you've been through, it probably hurts like dull, rusty daggers. i am so sorry.<BR>please just plan A him the best you can and tough it out.<BR>big huge enormous bear hugs,<BR>julie<BR>ps-stbx and i are separated and im planning to file, probably next week...he's just gotten WAY to crazy. at least he's supporting me and the kids really well till i can get a job and get settled.
Posted By: Samantha * Re: What is going on here ? - 10/08/00 07:56 PM
Deb,<P>Oh honey, I am so sorry that you are going through this. I don't have any real advise for you. Just mostly wanted you to know the lurking me has read, and really cares. I will for sure lift you up in prayer and light one of my candles for you.<P>You know what to do, you know how to apply the tactics and advise this site has. Get to doing a heavy plan A. I wish I had more advise. E-mail if you need to or want to. I am always here to read, heck I am real good to vent at. Samantha7x70@aol.com <P>I remember you from early on when I first came to this site. You helped me and encouraged me a whole bunch. I would like to return the favor.<P>Oh yeah, geeze, I forgot the most important advise I can give anyone. Pray, pray and pray some more. When you are tired of praying and think you can't pray anymore...pray again. The good Lord got me through this. He is there for you too. <P>I remember being on my knees in grief and crying out to the Lord to help me. I was in total dispair. You know what??? He helped me big time and carried me when I felt I couldn't walk another step. He will do that for you too. He loves you Deb.<P>I love you Deb, so many of us here do. Keep up your faith and hope. Another rocky road to be sure, but at the end of this part of the journey you will be stronger, wiser and have much to give others.<P>I don't feel like I have helped much? Please know I am here.<P>Hugs,<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] With God on our side we can't lose! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><BR><p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited October 08, 2000).]
Posted By: buffy Re: What is going on here ? - 10/08/00 08:20 PM
Hi Deb:<P>I remember when I first came here how wonderful your advise to everyone seemed. It's so hard to see good people going through this over and over again.<P>Your H's actions are strange....maybe it's another affair...maybe not. That limbo feeling again. Marriage is suppose to be the closest relationship you can have in your life yet sometimes it feels like there is a raging river between you...with no way to bridge the two. There is a way, of course...total honesty. He may think he is protecting you from more hurt...he's not...and you have to make him realize that.<BR>Whatever is wrong...you are strong enough to face it now. And it really is the best way for him to resolve whatever is bothering him...to get you to share it. You might not like it, but at least it's out in the open where it can be deal with.<P>If you can't get him to open up, then you must continue to make him feel like you're on his side...whether the problem is....and you're there to help if he needs you. Meanwhile you will continue to Plan A. <P>Our prayers are with you.<P>Faye
Posted By: terri Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 02:00 AM
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Deb}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Not much more I can say ... I'm sorry.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 02:37 AM
Justthewife<BR>10 second kiss ? Ha ! He won't get near my face for that long. <P>lwb,<BR>I saw your post about that and just didn't know what to say. At least you gave it all you had. I just want to run away from home.<P>Samantha,<BR>Yes, just knowing people are seeing this and they care does help. Too often I have no idea what to say anymore when someone comes here hurting. Plan A ? Hmmm, I'm about sick to death of plan A in this situation. Around here it seems I must accept that this is what my life will be or I can leave he isn't going to change. <P>Buffy<BR>I don't know how to make him see anything. He is a major conflict avoider anyway. Anytime something is wrong I don't hear about it until it's too late to fix it. :sigh: Sometimes this man drives me insane.<P>Terri,<BR>It seems like hugs is all any of us can do for each other at times. I appricate them, even cyber hugs are more than I get here. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<p>[This message has been edited by Bozos_ Deb (edited October 09, 2000).]
Posted By: catnip Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 07:02 AM
Deb:<P>This is so horrible for you; you've been through so much and you and Mike have been up and down and all around the spin cycle.<P>I wish I had some advice, but I don't. I went through that period for several months in late 1998 and early 1999. I couldn't understand why he wasn't crazy in love with me anymore, why he suddenly could stay away from me...I was baffled.<P>Eat a popsicle slowly in front of him. It inspired my husband. !<P>Catnip =^^=
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 07:41 AM
Catnip,<P>It won't work. I think I have one of the few h's in the world who is not turned on by anything that suggests oral sex to him. He is into giving it but not recieving. <P>So what's plan 2
Posted By: lostva Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 12:25 PM
Hi, Honey, I've missed you.<P>What did Mike SAY when you asked him about it? Did he have any reason at all or use the normal response (at least for MY hubby when he doesn't want to face something) that it's not like that at all, you're just imagining it?<P>I'm so sorry...you've dealt with enough. Glad you know we love you.<P>Love,<P>Lori
Posted By: weep Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 01:02 PM
Dear DebB<P>I am very sorry that this is something that really hurts. It is so ironic in that those of us who want the intimacy doesn't get it and those of us who doesn't want are pestered for it. Then when all stabilises, the sexual relationship still has the stench of the A. It WIIL TAKE TIME and prayers.<P>I think your H is going through resentment - I can't say for sure what sort of resentment but I believe he might be withholding his love from you to 'punish' you for something he feels isn't going his way. The best thing to do would be to live a full life filled with your own vitality and God's grace, and pray that he will fall in love with you again. Pray also that he will grow out of this mode which could stem from selfishness or his other motives.<P>love<BR>weep<BR>
Posted By: soulloss Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 02:06 PM
((((((((((((Deb))))))))))))))<P>just to echo Lori here....what has Mike to say about this?...<P>could it perhaps be an adverse reaction on his part to what happened to your face with those new meds a little while ago??.....I know, I know...a little 'off' ...but it was just a thought...<P>and lastly, my wonderful, giving, great friend, have you snooped..?...<P>oh, come on, we all know it's one of the first things your mindset shifts to...'he/she might be at it again'...so, we look for the evidence...is there any ??<P>sending you good thoughts...<P>------------------<BR>"The journey into darkness has been long and cruel, and you have gone deep into it."<BR>~ A Course in Miracles
Posted By: FaithHopeLove Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 04:12 PM
I am so sorry that this is making you sad.<P>Could it be that your H is stressed about your illness (because he loves you, of course) and he is unconsiously distancing himself from you to protect his own feelings?<P>Or even a more simple explaination is that the stress he feels over your illness just makes him feel less initmate? In fact, I guess the stress wouldn't have to be related to your illness at all...is there anything else stressful going on in his life?<P>I hope he snaps out of it, soon.
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 05:14 AM
<B> Lori </B>, What does he say ? He says nothing is wrong, just kissing is not his favorite thing to do. OK but never more than a peck ? After almost 23 years of getting real kisses at least before during and after sex, he suddenly announces he doesn't like it now ?<P><B> Weep </B>, I asked if he was upset with me for something, he says not. Vitality ? That's gone and probably will not return for several months due to the treatment I am on for HepC.<P><B> Dylan </B>, nope, this started before I ever went on treatment. Have I snooped ? What do you think ? Honey I have been in his email like a crazy woman. The only time he could be cheating is during his lunch break at work, since this is exactly how he carried on his last affair, well that isn't very comforting. Plus he works with a tram err woman who was caught with another male co-worker in the parking lot one night by the guys wife. The guy ended the affair and quit his job that night and went home to wife. So of course there is now a wounded woman around and we know mike has the knight in shining armor thing going on.<P><B> FH&L </B>, it's possible he is stressed, but I'm stressed too, and feeling rejected at such an intimate leval isn't making it better. <P>I'm sorry guys I've kept quiet about this for over 3 months now, and just couldn't stay quiet anymore.
Posted By: Patient Love Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 05:45 AM
Deb,<P>I've been following your story over the past year that I have been here and just wanted to offer my support, prayers and hugs...<P>I'm so sorry you have had so much to deal with and can only imagine the stress and grief you experience everyday due to Mike's infidelity in the past. On top of that you now have the fear of him being unfaithful again to deal with; that is too much for you to deal with on your own.<P>Don't be sorry that you came to the board with this. I am sorry that you felt you had too keep it to yourself for so long.<P>God Bless Deb<P>Hugs to you<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><p>[This message has been edited by Patient Love (edited October 09, 2000).]
Posted By: Bellevue Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 06:13 PM
Dear Deb,<BR>I've always enjoyed your sense of humor, irony and wit. I am in the same place as you, maybe worse. My H doesn't kiss me on the lips, hasn't since March '99. He submits to an occasional peck (dry, like you would give a relative you were too close to to be sexual with). <P>And of course, no sexual contact since June '99. <P>I'd be looking for evidence of an affair. In our case, there's complete avoidance by my H of anything that might be considered "foreplay" (holding each other, stroking my hair, massages, footrubs,) are all verbotten activities in our home. And Nope, no affair. None. Just a "Good Friend" - but by now I'm sure you're familiar with our story.<P>Empathy, sympathy, and a hug to you.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess
Posted By: cl Re: What is going on here ? - 10/09/00 11:32 PM
hi deb, Nice to see you around again and thanks for the e-mail boosters!<BR>Hmmm mike has something else going on. I doubt he would be screwing around again. He knows how painful it was to you before, and he don't think he would knowingly put you thru pain like that again. <BR>What else is going on? There must be an issue and he just is not facing it or sharing it? He knows he has to TALK! <BR>Since he is not being real open, send him back over here?<BR>Now to play the other side....maybe he is afraid of illness? I know you two have been dealing with this for awhile, but there are still fears he has to conquer. What if he just is feeling depressed and wants to be alone? The part I do not quite understand is the time....why so long without talking to you? Is he sleep deprived? <BR>Just throwing out some ideas. <BR>(((((hugs))))) cl <BR>
Posted By: lizam Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 02:08 AM
Hi Deb, Have not been posting or reading very much this pasts year, I am so sorry to hear that your relationhsip with Mike has not YET worked out for you. Mine still sucks, but I was so sad to find out you are still here too. Our stories have always been similar and here we both are still struggling.. I bought your book "Prayers that Avail Much" triple tri edition. I will once again be praying for you speifically. maybe Mike would be willing to at least give you the verbal reasurance you need to get you through this, if he is being faithful. Iwould like to write to him if you would give me his E mail, and if you do not think it would do more damage.
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 08:15 AM
<B> Paitent Love </B>, I guess the reason I waited so long to post about is I kept hoping that he would see how much it hurt me and things would get better. Stupid of me.<P><B> Belle </B> Not since March of 99 ? OMG my lips would kick me in the butt if I went that long w/o being kissed ! Oh yeah, just good friends, ha. <P><B> cl </B>, he just will not talk. all he does is roll his eyes and walk away from me after he says nothings wrong. Well something is wrong, it hurts me. No he's not sleep deprived. And I asked him about withdrawing because of my illness to protect himself , he says not. And he says he's not mad. So I am lost here.<P><B> lizam </B> I'll ask if it's ok to give you his email. I'm sorry things aren't better for you too.<P>
Posted By: cl Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 11:18 AM
Deb, will he come back here and talk?<BR>Other thoughts....is he feeling resentment that he can no longer lead his previous life of affiars? Does he feel he is constantly being made the guilty one? <BR>Hmmmm, maybe one frying pan is in order?<BR>((((hugs))))
Posted By: catnip Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 01:08 PM
Deb:<P>I'm praying for you...stay strong. Something's gotta give soon one way or the other.<P>Catnip =^^=
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 02:58 PM
<B> cl </B>, I don't know if he will come back here or not. He doesn't seem real excited about he idea, I've asked him to before. He didn't. He does know I have posted about this here. I don't know how he feels, the man will not talk. <P><B> catnip </B> I'm hanging on.<P><BR>I did talk to him again yesterday, and he kissed me before he left for work. I think he needs help with understanding that I am not Mike, I am Deb and there are certian things I need in my life in order to be content. I'm not even asking for happy anymore, to me that's a pipe dream now . Sorry but I would rather be honest. He can be content with living like room mates it seems. I can't , if I want a room mate I'll move in with my Mother. I want a husband one who doesn't mind kissing me or making love to me.
Posted By: Lor (Lor) Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 03:08 PM
Hi Deb,<BR>You & I made the decision not to pursue divorce at about the same time last spring, giving our H's another chance--which they wanted.<P>I'm wondering if the thought that the marital relationship does indeed take work might be a factor? And after these months, it can seem like an endless sentence, if you aren't in the proper thought mode.<P>Throughout a month, Guard & I hit on all cylinders, but never all at the same time. We happened to be talking to a male acquaitance who left his wife & kids for the *perfect* woman, the guy knows nothing about our situation and said he wished his marriage had been as solid as ours. Guard & I just looked at each other for a moment. We are determined to be together, but I don't know that either of us thinks of "us" as solid. So, Guard says something like "Marriage is hard work".<P>I agree of course, but inside I thought...loving me is hard work? Oh, yeah, the talking, the affection, the doing stuff together, the family time, the couple time, sex...<P>Most of the time we kiss like Grandma's in the room. Is it trouble, or is it being married for 17 years? The past 2 1/2 years seem to be gone, our patterns from before the affair are asserting themselves. I think I'd like for him to be grabbing me and smooching on me...but there's no abstinance to make the heart grow fonder. He doesn't have to be the male hunter looking for a mate...he's back in protecting-the-homefire-mode. <P>Anyway, that's where I find myself. I think there's still a little residual "he did all those things for HER" that crops up within me. I'm not her. Don't want to be her. But, she didn't deserve the romance he gave her, I do. And, like you, I can't make it into conflict, because, although he no longer walks out, his reaction is to "disappear" even if he's right in front of me.<P>We do talk quite a bit about emotional needs. We both aware of what makes us both tick, even if the priorities do seem to have shifted with our reconciliation. Can you just say to Mike, "it's time for a kiss" or whatever it is that you need? We're having some success with that. "I need to ________ is that all right with you." POJA.<P>Anyway, hugs & prayers to you Deb.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).
Posted By: cl Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 10:50 PM
hi deb,<BR>he must be feeling something! Just cannot put it into words? Some people are just not good at expressing their feelings. I am one of those-it is very hard for me-much easier to clam up and withdraw than to get into emotional expressions. Especially when I know h will not like/understand/appreciate what I am saying! <BR>Keep at the plan a stuff, even though the going is so hard right now. He came around before and he will again. Dang do I get tired of people telling me to give things time! But that is what I am suggesting to you! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]
Posted By: Pahakissa1 Re: What is going on here ? - 10/10/00 11:00 PM
Hi Deb,<P>Sorry you are going through this. <P>I wish I had some wisdom. Something must be up. <P>All I can do is give you a cyber hug.<P><BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{DEB}}}}}}}}}}}}} and if you want the frying pan back just let me know.<P>
Posted By: Dimples Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 01:13 AM
Hi Debs<P>Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. My husband doesen't kiss me either unless its a quick peck on the way out the door. He will hug me etc but no intimate contact like kissing.<P>It is so awful to think that my husband cannot bring himself to kiss me intimately but he had no problem with his 20 year old bit on the side.<P>A body can only take so much of this.<P>Dimples
Posted By: schizzo Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 04:34 PM
Deb, any update?<P>My h had a light switched on when he realized recently marriage is not something that happens to you, it is something you MAKE happen. I think that is the context of the hard work comments. Sometimes, it takes going the extra mile, making the other one feel loved when you are tired and have so many concerns of your own.<P>My h is realizing this. I told him today I feel empty and he gave me a really nice hug and said he realizes he has been caught up in his work again...<P>Old habits don't die easily, new ones have to be built from scratch and yes, it takes EFFORT.<P>Lor, like that word, better?
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/14/00 05:15 AM
Update ? Well, kinda, I have actually gotten about four kisses since last week when I told him I can't live like this anymore. Yea yea LB I know. I just don't care about that as much now, it is a big LB to me for him not to do it. <P>:sigh: somedays being married just plain bites. Yesterday was the 23rd anniversary of our first (and only ) date. <P>I just don't know anymore<P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>
Posted By: schizzo Re: What is going on here ? - 10/14/00 05:25 AM
Why is it an LB?
Posted By: out of the ashes Re: What is going on here ? - 10/14/00 05:45 AM
Bozos Deb,<P>Not knowing your history, I can only speculate.<P>Men like admiration - at least I do. We also like to be wanted and desired - just like women. Does your Plan A include giving him compliments? <P>I know how you feel about kissing. I have been reduced to receiving pecks. We do kiss during sex however, your frequency for sex is far more often than mine. <P>I write my wife a love letter every anniversary. In my last one, I told her the best thing I liked about making love with her was kissing. I got no response. <P>I don't really have any advice other than to try and love him the best you can. <P>out of the ashes
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schizzo:<BR><B>Why is it an LB? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is a LB for him to refuse to kiss me, because it in my eyes is a rejection not just of kissing but of me. And he has rejected me too often for it not to hurt worse and worse each time.<P>
Posted By: schizzo Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 07:40 PM
Deb, I apologize for not being clear. I meant why is it an LB to tell him????<P>Of course, you should not just keep going without your needs being met. It hurts like hell!!
Posted By: OffOnOnOff Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 08:44 PM
Bozos_Deb,<P>I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through right now. Life is a challenge. There is an up and down in life. You take what you can have and hope that you will get more than life itself.<P>Deb, at least you get a kiss. I don’t even get a touch from her. We are in the same house, but we live like we are within an invisible fence.<P>OOOO<BR>
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/13/00 10:18 PM
Ohhhh ok Schizzo, what is a LB to him is for me to complain about it. Ypou see to Mike as long as he is happy then everyone should be happy too, no matter how unhappy they really are. He doesn't want to hear about it, ever, in anyway. That's just how he is. But when he decides he's unhappy, well that is when he decides to find something better. <P>For everyone else going through this too, I am so sorry that any of us have to be in this boat. It inhales sharply deeply and for a long period of time if you get my drift..
Posted By: Dimples Re: What is going on here ? - 10/14/00 01:16 AM
Hi Bozo Debs [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>There's a lighthouse ahead, why dont we just jump off the boat LOL [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Dimples
Posted By: Sheba Re: What is going on here ? - 10/15/00 03:08 AM
Hiya Deb -<P>How are things progressing? And they have progressed a bit......he is giving you some kisses since you told him!!!<P>Did you hold it in, create scenarios, get yourself all worked up and then spring it on him from that point of view? If so, perhaps what was hindering a lucid response from him was your being so worked up.<P>OR maybe he just has to be told when it happens and then it be let go, then to ponder and bring up after so many weeks, months or occurrences?<P>Did you point out to him that he used to kiss you just fine up till 3 months ago and ask what has changed?<P>What about the admiration angle? Has he been feeling necessary? Wanted, admired?<P>Just throwing out possibles.....<P>You know that I can't understand this "non-talking" thing...ridiculousness!!<P>They can sure talk when they want to though!!!! <P>Why make life so much harder.....?<P>AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!<P>We love Ya, Deb....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited October 14, 2000).]
Posted By: Bozos_ Deb Re: What is going on here ? - 10/15/00 03:27 AM
Hi Sheba,<P>Well let's see, I did talk to him calmly at first, then I got tired of feeling like talking to the wall would have gotten farther, so I stopped talking for awhile. <P>And then I taked and cried, that got me nowhere too.<P>Then I told him I will not live this way anymore because it hurts too much . <P>He did do some heavy duty kissing last night so maybe he has begun to see, I am not getting my hopes up though. Too often he will respond for a few days , I get all happy thinking things will be ok and then he goes right back to the way things were. It makes me nuts.<P>I'm just tired Sheba, so very tired emotionally, and this blasted treatment makes me even tireder physically. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>
© Marriage Builders® Forums