Hi, my H has been involved in an internet relationship with another female whom he says has become his best friend. They have met numerous times and our families have gotten together for various activities as we have children of similar ages and I even started to get to know this woman and began a friendship with her myself. However, there seems to now be an emotional detachment by my H from me and an attachment to her. I recently asked him to stop seeing and talking to her and this resulted in a very serious arguement and his refusal to stop the relationship. We are now at an empass in which we are civil and cordial in front of the children, but sort of flat and drained with each other. He calls her almost daily as well as spends a good bit of time on the internet chatting with her. I want our marriage to work and am working on the things that I know I've done wrong in the past and some of the insecurities, etc. that have plagued me however, he is not without blame and responsibility.......any help/guidance would be so appreciated. I have been much in prayer for days over this and see no clear answer at this time.
Welcome <B>lonelyheart</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you...
<P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>Plan A doesn't mean you can't be honest.<BR>You must let him know that this relationshp hurts you... and your family.<P>Do check out the following sites...<BR><A HREF="http://www.wildxangel.com/" TARGET=_blank>What They're Not Telling You - Or How to Read Between the Lies!!</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.chatcheaters.com" TARGET=_blank>Internet Infidelity Prevention, Detection, Advice and Books</A><BR><A HREF="http://netaddiction.com/" TARGET=_blank>Center for On-Line Addiction</A><P>Since your family already knows this woman...<BR>...and educating your H will be difficult without their support...<BR>...first let your H know you're hurt and need their support... especially if you don't get his support.<P>Start counseling ASAP even if he doesn't want to join in...<BR>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>If he is willing (almost never the case once an affair ***even emotional affair*** goes too far)... have him read "the book"...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank> "Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>.<P>Stay here for support and questions...<BR>...you are not alone!<P>
<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>
Hi NSR....Thank you for the response. I will try to obtain the money needed for counseling with Dr. Harley.....at this time money is a serious issue for us too as my H was out of work for about 6 weeks and we are trying to catch up the bills. I think I can go to my mom for that help. Have been talking to a couselor here that has a ministry, but as yet have been unable to sit down face to face to talk. It helps to know that there's someone out there to listen and that can understand how I feel. Right now, it's sort of like I'm lost and helpless and so sick inside. I've lost 15lbs. in 3 weeks and can't eat for the pain in my stomach and chest and have trouble sleeping too. I feel like God is dealing with this issue with my H, but he is unable to give up this friendship. He doesn't realize that he is being unfaithful, even if it is only emotionally so. I pray for open eyes, ears, and hearts for both of us. We have 2 young children, one of which is severly disabled. It's like having a 12 yr. old infant. That in and of itself has taken a toll on both of us.......sweet as she is. And she is an angel. Thanks again for your input and help.
lonelyheart,<P>I'm sorry that you are in this situation. I do have a question for you. Is OW's H aware of what is going on between his wife & your H? If not, maybe you should let him know. Then that will shake up their little fantasy and reality will set in.
I'm very sorry about what happened. My concern is with your health. When m wife left I didn't eat or sleep at all either. I felt sick and just could not eat. I finally ended up in the emergancy room dehydrated and malnurished. Don't let that hapen it really isn't a good experiance. Go to your docter and tell him or her what is going on. They prescribed me with an anti axiety and a nausea pill. Both helped and I was able to think more clearly to realize what must be done. I suggest you start Plan A and read His needs her needs. They have helped me. We are always here to help you and give you support. My prayers are with you.
lonelyheart,<P>I'm sorry about your situation.<P>It is very wise of you to seek help/counseling immediately.<P>My infidelity began with an online "best friend" relationship. I can assure you that at the time, I really thought that the online "friendship" was not wrong. By the time I realized just how wrong the relationship was, I had already allowed the relationship to become physical.<P>It was wrong of me to try to "counsel" another man online about his marriage problems. <P>It was wrong of me to secretly confide in a man who was not my husband. <P>Both of the above mentioned things caused me to become emotionally intimate very quickly with this other man. The emotional closeness eventually lead to physical closeness...both of which were wrong (to say the least).<P>I pray that your husband's eyes will be opened to what he is really doing to himself, to you and to your relationship.<P>I pray that God will fill your heart with peace. I pray that this situation will be quickly resolved before more damage is done.<P>Jill <P><BR>
Survivor, Wrngler, and Jill.......thank you so much for your input......yes, the woman's husband does know about the relationship, but not the details that i know. I breached my H's computer password and read e-mails from him to her after questions posed to him about the relationship only left me with more questions and wondering more. However, her H doesn't realize or doesn't care how deep the relationship is......their relationship is not that great. I see a counselor monday 3/5....don't know if my H will go with me or not, but please pray that he will eventually because he is truly addicted and needs the help. I will prob see my dr. after that to get a prescription for anti-depressants to help me function at work and at home as we have 2 young children.....one of whom is seriously handicapped and needs lots of care. i still can't eat much but am trying to keep up the fluid intake at least. thanks for your prayers and concerns. Jill, your story sounds just like my H's......he swears it's is friendship only....but they are EMOTIONALLY involved.....they talk on line and on the phone almost daily.....and they started out by "helping each other and confiding with each other about their marital concerns" and it has grown from there and at this point, he is refusing to give her up. I am reading His Needs, Her Needs and Boundaries in Marriage as well as seeking counseling. I just pray that it hasn't reached the physical realm yet, and that we can get help and get our lives and our marriage back on track. any other words of wisdom/advice are welcome. thank you and all of you have a great day.
Dear LH,<P>I too share this same problem. My H went on line to meet other women, married women no less. He thought our love life was dead and wanted to find his match. He found several, one in particular has almost ruined our marriage. It started out as a simple friendship and within a month her e-mails were talking about sex. Even before that she was wanting to reach out and 'touch him'. That lead to daily phone calls and it went on for 3 months before I found out. I had noticed my H was on the computer a lot but since he worked from his home computer, putting in late hours was not unusual for him. What I did notice was his being distant, grumpy and always switching the computer when I would pass by his office. Previously he would always show me what he was doing, then he became increasing secretive. It was not until I accidently listened to 3 of his incoming voice mail messages on his cell phone that I found OW leaving him messages ending in "I love you". <P>By that time they already had sex and OW was claiming she was pregnant with their 'love child'. OW never proved she was pregnant and it turned out she was not (said she lost the baby at 3 weeks but never even proved that). Oh it gets better, in my attempt to communicate with what I thought was a 'sane person' misled by my H's misguided intentions (he was not saint), I soon found out that OW the internet tramp was well versed on how to respond to wives of the 'men' she had affairs with. Her responses were wicked and vicious. My H had given her lots of ammo about the bad aspects of our marriage to allow her to jump to all sorts of conclusions. As I have put in earlier posts in this forum, this OW threatened to throw me in jail for being an unfit and abusive mother, insinuated I was having an affair with my father-in-law, accused me of beating my husband, breaking his lap top computer, leaving my child unattended, etc. None of these accusations were true. OW & I have never met. My H had an EA & PA with this person. This OW has turned out to be a very manipulative, demanding and controlling person. She setup e-mail accounts for H, controlled his password, had him setup a special phone for her, had him get his own P.O. Box, controlled him in almost every way she could and even accused me (the wife) of 24/7 my husband. She is jealous of the attention my H gives his only child, tells H where & when to meet her (only at hotels), rejects him than makes him feel guilty so that he comes running back, etc. Mind you he thought he was meeting a very nice person. While all this was going on, he kept saying that she really is a nice person. In fact, he wanted me to be her friend. <P>Funny thing, her e-mail responses to me were anything but friendly. Once I sent an e-mail to H's e-mail address (the secret one they used - which I found out) and the message I sent was written anonomously as if from a former girlfriend. OW got ahold of that e-mail and assumed it was for her. She went ballistic. For about 10 days, her & H were trying to figure out who the e-mail came from. H thought our computer had a hacker. OW thought it was from me to her. She fired a response accusing me of being a lesbian and a bunch of other really weird stuff (she assumed the e-mail was for her - but it was sent to H's e-mail address). At the same time she was threatening to go to the police and turn me in for harrassing her. H was scared, OW had told him that her husband was out to get me and she was going to try to get me fired from my job. Since the original e-mail sent really did not have anything threatening in it (it was a simple - hi honey, how are you doing, etc.), I told H have them go to the police. I had already been to the police and I was told that I had not done anything legally wrong. H was confused, there was nothing for me to hide. OW would not show the original e-mail message to my H, OW just kept saying that the e-mail was threatening her life (which was a lie - again she offered no proof). However, in time, I did read her response (via a third party) and forwarded it to hotmail who immediately shut that e-mail address down. During this time I saw the movie 'Fatal Attraction' for the first time. I made H sit down and watch it with me. He denied his affair was as bad as the movie, the scary piece is that I could easily see the OW in that movie and H could not. <P>Here is some additional info that is good to know. Hotmail and other providers will react if they deem that their service is being abused. <P>Since then H has moved out in an attempt to find out if he really wants to have a life with OW or come back to his family or not have anyone. Lots of rollercoaster rides, lots of denial, lots of anquish, anxiety, financial hardship, lies, deceit, frustration, betrayal, etc.<P>OW tries to justify this on-line internet relationship as 'true love' and that it is okay to leave a marriage which OW has deemed a failure. OW writes her e-mails as if she is acting in a soap opera, colorfully speaks of their future plans together and makes grandiose promises of a new life together. However, actual time spent together does not show as much promise. At first, they blamed their inability to get along as the picture perfect couple on me. H even took her on a 3 day vacation to the mountains and found out that living with OW (even on vacation) had its drawbacks (she was beginning to nitpick him as if she was his wife or owned him as a piece of property). <P>My point to this long story (which has continued down to this very day). All that great feeling achieved on the internet romances are basically full of hot air. How long it takes to figure this out depends on how desparate both parties are. H & OW have pushed and pulled each other of their relationship many times since 6 months ago. H is basically scared of OW (she is kind of psyco) but has difficulty breaking away from her charms. <P>OW knows this and as a skill 'man hunter' has the ability to use all her charms (requires face to face meetings with him to talk him out of decisions he has made that are not in her favor). Ex: H was over my house today to reconcile (not the first time), OW called and told him to go outside and talk to her to make sure I would not be able to hear them. She wanted details of my conversations with H and how long, etc. (who is the wife here?) Anyway, H met with her tonight and gave her the final speach (or at least I hope so). I was asked to come and watch this parting meeting from a distance and within 1 hour of their departure, OW was trying to call him!!<P>My advice, beware of all affairs regardless of how harmless they may seem. They are all dangerous. No married man or woman can just have a 'friendly' relationship with someone on the love personal pages of the internet. According to my H, OW's advertisement on the personal websites just said she was interested in some one to talk with. Right. Sex was on her mind from the beginning. Her and her girlfriend were both doing the same thing and my H was caught by OW e-mailing both (H was too honest and gave both women his real name - naive or what??!?!). EA can go to PA very quickly. Reason: Internet correspondence creates an atmosphere of familiarity almost immediately. Unsuspecting users quick give trust to a stranger and if it is an experienced stranger, they are quick at identify a 'new user'. <P>My H has been in fog for the past year. He was in denial until I refused to dismiss this as a 'friendly relationship'. During that time, reasoning with him has been almost impossible. I had many sleepness nights, reocurring nightmares, anxiety attacks (2-3 times a week), rapid weight loss, loss of appetite, etc. Eventually I was able to get help. Many on this forum helped me. I know am in possession of a calm heart. There is no guarantee that H will come back and mend his ways. He is in the process of trying to come back this week. Time will tell. <P>This is just a part of my story. Hope this information is helpful. <P>L.<P><BR>
dear jill, i would like to ask a few questions if you don't mind and if you don't want to answer them, i understand. Thank you for taking the time to respond and your candor in your response. I'm sure you've been through a very difficult time and my prayers are with you. How did you come to realize what you were doing was wrong? Counseling? Accountability from friends/family? My H thinks he's doing nothing wrong and nothing i say gets through. I've tried to leave it in God's hands, but he got so angry with me last night i fear it may be past the point of no return/reconcilliation. What can I do, since you've been in his shoes, to handle the situation in the best way possible? I have a counseling appt. tomorrow afternoon, but i'm not sure if H will attend with me. I've tried a lot of Plan A, but our negotiations have broken down since I asked him to give up the friend. Says I willfully hurt him knowing how it would devastate him to be asked to give her up and that i knew that and asked anyway. I feel so empty and drained, and lost and he makes me feel like it's my fault and that i've also hurt her terribly which has been making me feel guilty, like i'm the one who is in the wrong. Thanks......got to get ready to go to work
Have a good day.
lonelyheart,<P>Of course I don't mind answering your question! I just hope that I can be of some help...<P>You asked how I finally came to realize that what I was doing was wrong...<P>Well, that's a tough one. I think that part of me always knew that it was wrong to have a relationship with a man over the Internet and that it was wrong to want to talk to this other man more than I wanted to talk to my husband. Unfortunately for me, the true force of what I was doing didn't hit me until the relationship with the other man turned physical. I was playing with fire all along and wouldn't admit it. I guess at the time I thought that I was an expert in fire and that I could handle what I was doing. Also, the other man had been pressuring me for a long time to meet him in person. It was the whole if-you-really-care-about-me-you'll-meet-me-in-person-and-prove-it thing. And, I fell for it.<P>When I finally realized what I had done and had been doing, I wanted to die.<P>lonelyheart, if you're reading the Harley books, they will really help you to see things through your husband's eyes. What he is doing is based in fantasy -- NOT reality. And, he is trying to turn the tables on you to make you feel bad because he is the one who is doing wrong. I want you to understand that he is in a state of selfishness and irrationality right now. I was so completely irrational and moody when I was cheating on my husband. I could make ANYTHING seem like it was my husband's fault when I was the guilty one. I mean, I was SO good at turning the tables on my husband that I could almost make him feel like world hunger was his fault. The guilt ate at me, so I ate at my husband so that I could "comfort" myself in some strange way. I felt even more guilty when my husband continued to show me love and compassion despite the fact I was acting like a brat (he didn't know about my emotional or physical affair, yet). So, I guess I thought that I would feel better if I made my husband "lose" his love for me. I was so incredibly selfish during the time period that I was unfaithful to my husband (and the time period before I confessed). Selfishness and irrationality can blind a person to the needs of those around him/her. I was so blind, I only cared about myself. <P>Unfortunately, your husband will have to find out all of these things on his own. Your husband will wake-up from this fantasy land one day. And, when he does, it won't be pretty.<P>I hope that what I have said here has not added to your pain. I just feel that it's very important to understand where your husband is probably coming from right now.<P>If you're not already reading Harley's "Surviving an Affair", I highly recommend that book in addition to "His Needs/Her Needs". I think that you will feel like Harley wrote "Surviving An Affair" just for you and your husband.<P>If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm not an expert, but I really do care about what happens to the people on this forum. I'm not perfect, but I will be honest with you when you ask questions.<P>Hang in there and please let me know how you're doing.<P>Jill
Jill,<P>I am in candid awe of how you now respond to others...<P>Does your H know how much you help people here?...<P>...what hope you give them!<P>
<P>Jim
Dear Jill,<P>Well, I went to counseling yesterday.......alone. He came home to keep the children so I could go to MY appointment. Oh well, I tried not to act like it bothered me and went on alone. The counselor suggested that I first try to meet my H's top 5 Emotionl Needs to see if we can make some progress there and get things going in the right direction and then hopefully we can both get into counseling as a couple. He also stated that this just a fantasy and if the real world becomes more inviting it will probably end soon. Is any of this in line with what Dr. Harley teaches and is it similar in any way to Plan A or part of Plan A? The counselor likes what Dr. Harley has to say and his principles in His Needs/ Her Needs.......which I was very glad to hear. It is so hard to sit and wait for my H to get through talking to the OW so we can have time together, but he is trying. He's still hurting that I actually had the nerve to ask him to give her up, but at least he is making an effort to work things out........except that she's still in the picture. Pray for patience and that God will hold my tongue and give me peace........He has a tough job.....hahah
Thanks for all you help and for listening!
Hope all is well with you. Talk to you later.<P>lonelyheart
lonelyheart,<P>I'm glad to hear that you went to counseling! That's a great start!<P>Yes, what your counselor had to say as far as meeting emotional needs and your husband being in a "fantasy" is right in tune with Harley's books.<P>I hope that soon your husband will be able to end all contact with the other woman. WARNING: THE WITHDRAWAL PERIOD IS MISERABLE. I hope that your husband will make the choice to go to counseling alone AND with you.<P>It sounds like things are going okay.<P>Hang in there...great to hear from you!
<P>Jill<P>
Jill,<P>Yes, things are going o.k. and have even somewhat stabilized for the moment. It is so hard though to be at home or even at work knowing that he is talking to her for 2& 3 hours at a time and then we spend a few minutes together at best. It hurts so bad and I just want to scream!!!!!@#$%^&*( But I've been trying to do as the counselor says and ignore it and let roll off my back.....easier said that done
. We have had a fairly peaceful few days though and have managed to talk without fighting even though there are so tense moments. If withdrawal is anything like the last few days/weeks have been we all may have to be on tranquilizers just to get through it. I still can't eat very well and don't really feel like sleeping.....to tense. Am going to try to get some meds to calm me down some so I can function. And yes, I too hope my H will make the choice to go to the counselor for himself as well as with me. He is under a tremendous amount of stress from this as well as a lot of other things that are really compounding the problem for both of us. I started reading Love Busters today after finishing His Needs/ Her Needs and will try to pick up Surviving an Affair tomorrow if I don't have to work too late. Will keep you posted on our progress, etc. It has helped so much to talk to you......I look forward to our correspondence. Take care......<P>lonelyheart
Hi Jill,<P> Well, things are up and down. Sometimes I think we've made progress and then it seems we've slipped back several steps. Yesterday, 3/9, my H arranged to meet with his friend. At first he was going to go and just leave me an e-mail where he was and when he'd be home, but he had to make arrangements for the children to be taken care of and wound up telling me what he was doing. I replied that I was not comfortable with this and would rather he not go.......he went anyway returning smelling strongly of her cologne on his shirt and jacket and neck. Of course I slipped back several steps at this point and the old green monster of jealousy really took hold. Things have been tense, to say the least, today and the rest of last evening. My counselor wants me to try to meet his emotional needs, but i don't know how long I can keep getting squashed and devastated by these blows. I got very desperate today and thankfully my sister-in-law was there for me or I might have done something really foolish which would have impaired my ability to take care of the children since H had to go to work as soon as I got home from my job. How can I get through this? I feel like I am falling apart. I got some anti-depressants this week and something to relax me, but I'm still tied in knots and can't eat or hardly take care of what needs to be taken care of. See the counselor again on Mon., but will only be able to go every 2-3 weeks due to finances. He is making me feel so guilty for not accepting their relationship. Almost like he blames me for the problems and the way she feels badly for coming between us. Well, that was her choice. He is putting her and her feelings and needs way ahead of mine......it's almost like they don't exist. Thanks for listening........have a good day.
<BR>
lonelyheart,<P>Thanks for the update. I've been wondering how you are doing.<P>I know that it's difficult to be at home while your husband is out and about with his "friend". I can't imagine what it would be like to have my husband come home smelling of some other woman's perfume. I'm thankful that my husband never had to experience me coming home smelling like the other man (as I've told you before, my relationship was an EA that ended in a PA over one weekend -- my OM does not even live in this state, THANK GOD).<P>I know that it's difficult to have to be the one reaching out to start the process of saving your marriage when you are the one who is being treated so cruelly. <P>Please remember that you need to be taken care of in all of this, too. I wish that my husband had gone to counseling more often after I confessed my unfaithfulness to him. I'm glad that you are seeking counseling and coming here. There are so many people here that have great experience and advice. I hope that the anti-depressants help you to function better.<P>My prayer is that your husband's eyes will be opened to the pain that he is causing you.<P>Jill
Hi Jill,<BR>I think the anti-depressants are beginning to help.....had to get into my system, I guess. The meds to sleep are definitely helping but the minute I wake up, it all comes rushing back at me. Hard to get up and get going some days. Yes, the "doormat" role is becoming very difficult.....had a few bad moments this past weekend when I didn't think I could manage to keep going. Because of you and this site and the help of some others in my support system, I made it through. Am praying my H will see how this is hurting me and how he has issues he needs to deal with as well and seek counseling with me and alone also. Patience has never been my strong suit so the waiting and the constant being on guard and trying not to make mistakes to set him off are very difficult for me. I see the counselor again today and am taking the top 5 Emotional Needs list my H made for me last night. He asked me to make for based on what I felt like his needs were and I listed the same things except for one......I think he was surprised. Anyway, am finishing the book "Love Busters" and have ordered "Surviving and Affair". Just hope we can build the trust and faith in each other so the love bank can re-fill for both of us. He told me he wasn't sure he had what it took right now to re-build our relationship even though he still loves me. Hope all is well with you. Thanks again for listening and responding.
Hi Jill,<P>Well, I've still been practicing Plan A and trying to meet my H's top 5 needs, one of which is openness and honesty. I had to confess and untruth last night and that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do because I knew he was going to be very angry(sorry to make a judgement)which he was. It concerned the e-mails in question between he and his friend. He had asked for them back and I told him they were gone......just lied about where they had gone. I am afraid of his anger and rejection......not physically afraid.......just can't respond to him when he gets so mad. Anyway, things are not good and he says I have all the leverage and ammo to take the kids from him which I was professionally told to keep the e-mails to protect the kids and me from him getting a lawyer to have me declared unfit/incompetent and take them himself. The e-mails are completely out of my reach secured in another state. He is worried that I will tell his friend's H about everything and that he will take their child and disappear. Is this part of the withdrawal because it sure is getting ugly. Came home to nasty, sarcastic e-mails from my H concerning property lists, etc. since we may not be able to work things out........these were his words....not mine. I've always said I want to work things out and am believing for healing and restoration and that I am trying to meet the needs he listed......one of which was Honesty and Openness. Any words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated. Am hanging in there but it's tough to be the one giving and not get angry and retaliate. HOpe all is well with you and I do so appreciate your time and responses.....you're a true blessing. Talk to you soon and will keep you posted.
lonelyheart,<P>Wow. It really took courage for you to tell your husband about where the copies of the e-mails really are located. It sounds like he has quite a temper.<P>I guess I'm not real clear on one thing...<P>Has your husband stopped ALL contact with the other woman? ALL contact means e-mails, phone calls, personal visits, etc. Technically, until NO contact happens, the "withdrawal" period cannot start.<P>The defensiveness and bouts of anger towards you that your husband is experiencing sound typical of what I experienced while I was actually cheating. The harder my husband tried to be kind to me, the more hateful I became towards him. Once I cut-off all contact with the OM and actually entered the withdrawal phase of ending that relationship, I was still extremely moody...not unlike a hungry, cranky child. During this time period, I still tried to make my husband feel like dirt. I wanted him to leave me so that I wouldn't have to feel guilty about cheating.<P>GUILT sure does strange things to people...<P>Hang in there. Did you tell me that you had ordered the book "Surviving An Affair"? For me, that was the BEST book. I bought it for my husband right after I confessed. He said that it helped him VERY much. I think that the book will really help you to see things through your husband's eyes. It will help you to see that your situation is not (unfortunately) unique.<P>Thanks for keeping me posted.<P>I've told you before that I'm definitely not an expert. But, I'm glad to help you in any small way that I can...<P>Jill
LonleyHeart<P>I, too, confessed to reading the emails from OW and a couple from him to her. (Must have been over 100 pages!)<BR>I repeated some of the things that she said in order to show him what a profound influence she was having on his thought process ... but the utter hurt and devestation of having her talk about MY H as her soulmate and about her unconditional love, their future she had planned for them, and of holding and touching (etc.) him was more than I could bear. Of course, I broke down in a torment of emotional pain. He seemed to understand and told me it must have been torture. Still refers to the emails in conversations.<P>Sometimes I wished I had never read them. If I hadn't I may have not insited he leave. He didn't want to. <P>Advice?: Understand yourself, and stop focusing on the A.<P>Posting "Acting as if"...a work in progress.<P>I'm relearning the concept but it has helped me in the past. And except for the conscious effort to focus on the A and OW at times, I find myself more confident.<P>God bless all of you and your perseverence.<P><BR>
Jill,<P>Thanks for the response. NO, they have not stopped contact.....still e-mail daily, talk on the phone almost daily, and chat on-line daily.....sometimes for2-3 hours at a time. I knew it was too good to be true that he be withdrawing this soon.......but you can always hope
He sent me some nasty messages about dividing up our property with some snide little remarks thrown in. Guess this is the guilt and my kindness and caring are making him feel worse so he takes it out on me. Sound right? I got my copy of "Surviving an Affair' today and have started to read it. Sometimes I'm a little confused about actually calling what he is doing an affair.....I guess it really is since there is definitely an emotional attachment. I'm trying to be patient, but it gets hard sometimes. Well, better go. Talk to ;you later.
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Dear Jill,<P>Well, it's been a rough day. H really blasted me last night about the e-mails. Said I'm using the kids against him and that I've lied to him about everything.....that he can no longer trust me or believe me. The couselor said for me to ask H to plan an activity for just the 2 of us and I would my sitting arrangements so we could be alone.....recreational companionship one of H needs. Well, he wants to get together with the OW and her spouse for dinner this weekend. The counselor also said not to deny him the friendship at this time as it will probably drive him farther away. H says this has already happened; that it's my fault they are so close because I wouldn't accept the realtionship in the firs place and I drove him to spending so much time with her. I feel so lost and alone and like my whole world just crashed around me. H says he doesn't think he has anything left to try to put us back together with and I am even more devastated than before. Back to wanting to cry all the time. H sent me a really sweet e-mail yesterday and when I thanked him for it, he said it was just for nostalgia that I wouldn't be getting any more messages from him at all. And so far today, there have been none. I know I shouldn't expect any thing, but I keep hoping. It's so hard to look at him and see hate in his eyes and hear the coldness in his voice. He totally blames me for everything. And I am struggling not to feel guilty nad give in and get the e-mails and just burn the darn things. Maybe if I had in the first place.....none ot this would have happened and i would still have some love and affection and a H. Well, got to go attempt to get some work done before he gets home because I plan on leaving the house and being gone most of the evening......I can't take another night like last night with all the anger and accusations. Have a good day.....talk to you later
Jill,<P>I'm searching for ideas about how to lift the fog that is hovering over my w. She is in complete denial mode about the impact and affect of her on-line and phone R with an ex-boyfriend. She hasn't seen for 15 years (they dated during high school) and has been in contact now for over 3 months. I sent the attached story from another website from our home e-mail and she read it from our sent items. She forwarded it to me at work w/ a note that said "So you think this is what my relationship with XXXX is about. Why can't you get over that? I never thought you would stoop so low" I know this describes her situation to a "T". But, nothing I seem to do will get her to admit it. I broke into her e-mail and I'm trying to get her to stop the relationship on her own without rubbing her nose in what I found. I'm afraid that confronting her (esp. w/ how I found out) will only drive her to more lies and closer to him.<P>I get many different opinions about the decision to use what I've learned or not. Many say if it's the only way to stop them I have no other choice; but, even my counselor says he doesn't see any value in confronting her.<P>Any ideas????<P>jaboom <P>============================================================<BR>ONLINE AFFAIRS<BR>This new arena for affairs, although not initially involving physical contact, is highly-charged sexually. It involves the same kinds of thinking and emotions as other affairs—including the secrecy, fantasy and excitement, as well as the denial and rationalization—and it has the same potential for being devastating to the primary relationship. <BR> <BR>Here's a typical scenario: <BR> <BR>1. You spend more and more time Online.<BR> Online interactions provide an "escape" from the realities of day-to-day living. <BR> The fantasy world online can make the real world seem dull and boring.<BR> The sheer numbers of people create unlimited potential for "newness."<BR> <BR>2. You meet someone interesting Online.<BR> You present the "best side" of your personality, and so do they.<BR> You share confidences: hopes, fears, fantasies.<BR> The intense sharing brings you closer and closer together.<BR> You fantasize about being more than online friends.<BR> You become infatuated with your "friend" and want more and more interaction.<BR> You feel like you're "in love."<BR> <BR>3. Your primary partner suspects/knows about your online friend.<BR> You deny or rationalize about your online activity.<BR> Your partner becomes more and more suspicious and threatened.<BR> You ignore or deny the impact this is having on your partner.<BR> Your partner learns more and is devastated by the situation.<BR> You tell yourself that since there's no actual sex involved, it shouldn't matter.<BR> You grow closer to your online friend and more distant from your partner.<BR> <BR>4. You want to meet your online friend in person.<BR> You feel like "soul-mates" or that you were "meant for each other."<BR> You consider "risking it all" to see your online friend.<BR> You either meet and engage in sex or you don't and feel like "star-crossed lovers."<BR> <P>5. Your life has been changed in ways you never intended.<BR> Your online relationship ends-and your "real" one may end as well.<BR>===========================================================<BR>
lonelyheart,<P>It sounds like things are pretty rough for you right now. It scares me and bothers me that your husband would expect you to go on a double-date with the OW and her husband. The emotional pain that you will experience from that encounter makes my stomach hurt when I think about it. <BR>What type of counselor are you having sessions with? Is he/she a Christian counselor? Marriage and family? <P>I understand that if you push your husband that it might make things more uncomfortable. But, I don't think that you should have to subject yourself to agony (having dinner with OW and her spouse and your spouse) to soothe your husband. What does your husband hope to gain or prove by putting you in that situation? <P>And, once again, your husband is blaming you for his poor choices. He is the one who started spending time with a woman who is not his wife. His behavior is typical -- he wants you to feel like the "bad guy" in this scenario because somewhere deep in his heart, he knows he's WRONG.<P>I'm starting to feel very helpless when I read your posts and see what you are going through. Sometimes I just don't know what to say to help you. It's moments like these that I wish that I had a degree in counseling!<P>Stay strong. Don't let your husband make you feel worthless and like this is all your fault because it's not all your fault...<P>Just know that I do care about your situation even when I have no clue what to say to make things better for you.<P>Jill<P><BR>
Dear Jill,<P>Don't ever think that you aren't helping......you are just by your encouragement and explanations of how these things progress. It is all straight down the line with what is happening. And yes, it is getting very difficult these days. He is still so angry with me that we don't talk very much and most of his time when not at work or being with the children,(which is very little), he's on the internet talking with OW or playing on-line games. YOu'll be glad to know the double date fell through because of something to do with her H. Don't know what it was, but it was very upsetting for my H because he was extremely disappointed and then spent the rest of the day/evening ignoring/blaming me for the cancellation. I would say either the other H was treating OW in a disrespectful manner or he found out more about the relationship than he has known so far. My H and OW chatted until 1:30a.m. this morning........I went in to go to sleep on the couch since I have to be at work at 6 and the computer is in our room.......I needed the rest. I also talked to the Harley's on their radio show this afternoon.......said to keep the e-mails and to keep working Plan A, but that it sounded like a Plan B was in our future. That scares me, but I sort of feel the same way because at this point, with his anger, I don't feel like he is receiving any love units in the bank and we are at a stand still. Plan B is a huge step and I will have to think that one through very long and very hard because of what it will do to the children and his parents,(who know nothing except that "something" is wrong), in particular, and my mother will be upset as well, but has dealt with a lot of very difficult situations before and is very strong. See the counselor again on Fri. afternoon and it doesn't look like I'll have a very positive report except that so far I've been able to avoid the love busters.......but it is tough........especially when he treats me the way he did last night.........gave me the attitude that the cancellation was my fault. I wanted to scream and hit things. Anyway, thanks for listening......you're a big support and it's good to be able to come here and vent. Take care.........lonelyheart
lonelyheart,<P>I'm so glad that the double-date was cancelled. I'm glad that the anti-depressants are starting to help. It's so important that you are able to function during this time.<P>You mentioned that you are afraid of the possibility of having to go into Plan B. Let me encourage you NOT to be afraid. When I had gone to pastoral counseling the day that I would confess (I confessed that very night), I cried and kept telling the counselor that I didn't want to confess because I was afraid of what would happen to my husband, to my extended family and to me. I told him that I was afraid that my husband would ask me to leave and that I wouldn't have any place to go. I told the pastor that I was afraid that my husband would be wounded beyond healing. I told the counselor that I was afraid that things would never be the same. Yet, I wanted so much to do the right thing. Deep down, I knew that things COULDN'T remain the same. This wonderful pastor looked me in the eyes and said, "You must always trust God regardless of what you are afraid the outcome might be..."<P>Those were some of the most powerful words anyone had ever spoken to me. I go on my knees right there in his office and he and his wife prayed for me. I went home and cried and prayed some more. When my husband walked in the door, I grabbed him by the hands, took him into the living room and sat at his feet. I can honestly say that I've never been so terrified in my entire life. I took a deep breath, and aside from when I asked Christ into my heart long ago, I hadn't ever trusted Him that much again until the moment of my confession...<P>My life has never been the same since I confessed to my husband that I was unfaithful to him. That was October 13, 2000. I'm glad that I took a deep breath and trusted Him. My marriage is beginning to heal and I'm so thankful.<P>You WILL be okay. Your children WILL be okay. Your husband WILL open his eyes and heart one day.<P>Jill<P>
Dear Jill,<P>Well, last night and today were 2 of the worst times in my life. We got into a discussion again last night and it did not go well. He wound up making me feel very guilty again, as usual, because I let him, as usual and he stormed out saying I better keep the e-mails because I would probably have to use them after all. Then this a.,m., he apologized, but still said he feels so cold and dead inside. Feels nothing for me and doesn't know if he can stay or not. I am heart broken but trying to trust God to work out this whole mess. Saw the counselor today because things were so rough, but won't be going back because can't afford it. H has encouraged me to but too much financial strain at this time. Thank you for all your encouragement....it helps me through the day and gives me hope for the future. So glad to hear you marriage is healing and doing well.
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{{{{{{{{lonelyheart}}}}}}<P>I'm so sorry to read your pain! My H has internet friendships, but nothing to the extent of your H's. Or maybe he does, my H does everything from his work and he hasn't been bold enough to bring it home. I do stop into his work once in a while to check up and I'm about due, but I'm afraid I might find he's still emailing with these women (he says he hasn't done so since Sep. 00).<P>I can tell you are trying to keep your marriage together and that you love your H. My H used to emotionally attack me and it got to the point where I was taking a sleep aid each night so I could just tune him out and not engage with him.<P>Please distance yourself from him emotionally for your own sanity. Plan B does not have to be permanent. Think about it. I would get into verbal battles with my H until I realized he was doing and saying things to crush me emotioanlly. One example: I used to hear the phone being dialed in the middle of the night when my H was involved in email EA. He would hear me getting up and he'd hang up. For the past year I would wake up shaking thinking I heard the phone dialing, but he was still sleeping next to me. He knew I would panic when he'd get up in the middle of the night and go to the living room to watch tv (bcs he couldn't sleep). When we argued he would intentionally grab the cordless phone and go off to another room. For a while I would just go crazy grabbing all the phones out of the phone jacks until I discovered sleeping aids. I used them for about 2 months on a regular basis, but it helped to regain my sanity.<P>You see, once I stopped engaging with him he stopped as well. I stopped putting my energy into saving my marriage and started doing things for me (yeah, I got selfish). I started meeting friends for coffee or visiting my family. I read books I enjoyed (not marriage books) and just lived for myself.<P>You can't force him to come out of the fog, he needs to come out on his own and until that time - pamper and take care of yourself.<P>Good luck!<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
Hi Jill,<P>How are things going? I hope and pray for both of you they are much better. Things not much better here. My H says he isn't angry with me(ha, imagine that since HE is in the inappropriate relationship!!) says he just doesn't feel anything. Is unable to comfort me when i'm upset and cannot carry on a conversation without bringing up my past mistakes to justify his feelings. Feel like i'll never stop paying for what i did when i was so depressed several years ago about our finanacial situation and our special needs daughter.......says i was cold and unresponsive and wasn't there for him when he needed me so he's tired of trying. Still spends lots of time on the internet with OW, like last night when we were suppopsed to talk......i finally came to bed at 12:00 and asked if he could get off the comp,(i've been sleeping on floor(my choice) in living room in order to not hear him typing conversation, affection,etc. and spending time with her.) and he wanted to finish the game he was in with her, so i went back to L.R. and he came in shortly to get me up to come to bed. Then i had bad dreams all night and noone slept. Feeling very sad, hopeless, thoughts of wanting to go away to be alone, wishing i could crawl in a hole and die. Don't think he cares at all for me anymore.......love bank on EMPTY and i don't seem to be able to put anything back in. Don't know if i can do this much longer.......hurts so much sometimes i want to die, but have 2 beautiful children to take care of and i can't leave them.......besides......i'm a big chicken....
got to go get things for my daughters birthday party at school.......thanks for being there.......have a good day........lonelyheart
Lonelyheart,<P>I can "hear" the desperation in your post and I wish I could help. Is there any way you could get your H to move out or could you go somewhere so you aren't so tortured? You don't deserve the treatment you are getting. I thik you are being too passive and I'm saying this from my heart. Please don't take offense, but I think you need to start sticking up for yourself. Tell him you will not stand for this "friendship" any longer. You say you're too chicken to leave, but I don't think you have any choice. Take your daughters and find peace in your life. <P>I was very passive, like you, just a year ago, but I realized that my being passive was enabling my H to walk all over me. It may have started with your H's betrayel, but what about the betrayel to <B>yourself</B>? You are betrayng yourself for allowing this to happen to you. <P>If you want your marriage then be strong and fight for it!<P>Please don't sit back and watch your H destroy your marriage, your family and your self worth! Take control of yourself and the rest will follow.<P>Are you in counseling? If your H won't go - please go for yourself and for your daughters. <P>May God bless your days and guide your ways!<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
lonelyheart,<P>Are you sure that you want to continue sleeping on the floor while your husband types away to another woman with no regard for how it makes you feel? You are risking your physical and emotional health by having to continue to live in this situation with your husband. I know that you are miserable and that your heart is broken. You have to be exhausted. You need to go somewhere with your child until your husband cuts off all contact with the other woman. Do you have some where to go? Or, you need to stay and ask your husband to go some place else until he cuts off all contact with the other woman...that would be my personal choice. I wouldn't have expected my husband to leave and allow me to stay here since I was the one who cheated. If anyone should have had to get out, it would have been me.<P>I'm not saying all of this to offend you or to be "bossy". I'm saying this because your posts don't sound good to me. You need some help, here. You need to stay in counseling so that you can get emotionally stronger (seek out a reputable pastor in your community...they will usually offer free counseling to anyone who needs it). You need to sleep in your own bed without the knowledge that your husband is in the other room communicating with the other woman...you need some rest so that you can be physically stronger and so that you can care for yourself and for your precious special needs child.<P>You are not cold. But, your spouse is right now. Don't let him continue to beat you into the ground. He is the one who is doing wrong right now.<P>You hang in there. This will get better. You will be okay.<P>Let me know how you are...<P>Jill<P>
Lonelyheart,<P>Are you okay today? I'm hoping your silence means you unplugged the computer and threw it out the window to get your H to take you seriously. That's what I would do. <P>My thoughts and prayers are with you!<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
Dear Jill and Free2BMe,<P>Thanks for all the care and concern and no I didn't take offense at anything you all said. I needed to hear it all....even if I didn't necessarily want to
I think I need to clarify a couple of things too: I'm not spending the whole night on the floor in the living room......just while H is on internet with OW.....I know, still doesn't make it right and he has gotten off the comp the past 2 nights when I've gotten home from work and come to bed with me which is unusual. They usually chat until 1 or 2 in the morning if he doesn't have to go in to work early. The other thing is I'm too chicken to do myself bodily harm.....which is where my thoughts were headed the other day. I don't want to leave, no, but if it comes to a separation, I pray for the strength from God because at this point, I don't have it. You all are so encouraging and helpful.....I'm sure it takes a lot of strength to come here and talk about your own problems and situations in order to help others. And I have been trying to stick up for myself more......told him I wanted to get to bed at a reasonable hour and felt it very discourteous of him to keep me up talking to her and it hurts too much for me to stay in the room with him while he talks to her and spends time.....our time.....with her. Don't know if that's why he's gotten off the comp early the past 2 evenings or not, but I'm not arguing about the fact that it's happened! Also, called him on a couple of other occasions where he was rude and a couple of times in front of our children, one of whom is a 9 yr. old boy who is very impressionable and prone to trying himself if dad isn't home to discipline him.......think this gave him pause for thought......something new. Well, today we're in a holding pattern.....not good or bad.....just there. Will keep you posted and again, thanks for all your help and concern and input.....God bless you both.........lonelyheart
Lonelyheart,<P>Thank you for taking the time for an update. Ya know, I was serious about throwing the computer out the window. Your H is so unreasonable and rude. I get upset when my H gets on the computer for any length of time. My H used to get into chat rooms (married and flirting on yahoo). I'm quite sure he still does it, but he does it at work now. If I could I'd go into his office and fry the PC.<P>I know you will find the strength in your own time. I was very much the carpet my H wiped his feet on until I was ready to say enough is enough. You will know when that time comes. Just think of the message your kids are getting out of how your H treats you and how you allow him to treat you. We all have our breaking points and I know you will get there!<P>At least he seems to be a little more concerned about your feelings (getting off the computer when you get home). I think he must see it as wrong now and that he's walking on thin ice.<P>My continued thoughts and prayers for you!<P>
<P><P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
Hi Jill.....Hi Free2BMe:<P>Hope all is well with both of you. Not a lot has changed here.....still trying to continue with Plan A, but feel Plan B is imminent because my H got very angry with me the other night and things got sort of ugly. He restated the fact that he will not give up talking to, calling, and seeing the OW. He refuses counseling. Is fairly cordial in front of the kids and is actually nice when other people are around, but in private, I get ignored or hear rude/sarcastic comments and he still stays on-line until all hours unless i ask him to stop......sometimes even that doesn't work. Plan B scares me, but what else is there? We have no life or marriage as things are. He doesn't hold or kiss me unless I initiate it and then there's no feeling to it. Says he doesn't feel anything but anger and resentment for me because of the e-mails and the fact that i said i had to protect my children. Thinks i was implying that he's a bad father/man and is trying to pressure me into giving them up to make him feel better and let him off the hook so to speak. There's times I've wanted to but have held off on the advice of Dr. Harley and counselor and friend. Just wanted to touch base. Thanks for all your help. Talk to you soon.<BR>lonelyheart
lonelyheart,<P>Just keep in mind that we have to be brave enough to trust God regardless of what we fear the outcome might be...<P>I'm saying that for my own benefit as well as yours...<P>I don't have anything helpful to say today besides, "Hang in there."<P>Thanks so much for continuing to keep me updated on your situation. I often wonder how you are doing.<P>Jill
To Free2BMe :<P>I read where you said that he was probably doing it from work now and that struck a cord with me since my H has been an internet addict for 8 years I can tell you that from my experience that the activity needs to be cut off all together or hidding at work is actually worse... that is where the read damage came from for us... He started going to the Yahoo married and cheating communites and posting that he was looking,,, and was running around during the day instead of being at work (but of course he told me he was in meetings yeah right) he always came home on time and since the last ultimatum that I had given him had been almost a year (the last time I caught him with sex emails from various women) I thought all was fine... well in January I got to thinking about a Yahoo id that I know he had used last year and I asked him about it and the answers didnt sound quite right... so I logged on prayed for the password and it popped into my head,,, YES it really did,,, and I logged in and what I saw broke my heart... I thought since he wasnt doing it at home I thought the addiction was over,, was I EVER wrong... I had told him last year that after 8 years of this mess that if I ever caught him again he would not know that I knew until he saw that sherrif in his office to serve him... so on Dday I went home thought about it didnt say anything to him and I filed the next day,,, it took 10 days for them to serve him and I never said a word but I checked the emails and printer over 60 very very damaging emails... to be used in court... <BR>guess what I am saying just cause they are doing at work doesnt mean that it is not bad,, sometimes it is worse...<BR>Hang in there and I just had to let you know.<BR>C1
Lonelyheart,<P>I'm so sorry things aren't getting any better. Plan B is scary, but think about how you're living your life now - it sounds like pure hell at the hands of the one person you thought would protect you.<P>I know it's easy for me to say - I'm not in your position!<P>I think of you often and I pray for your happiness and sanity!<P>CONCERNED1,<P>Thank you for thinking of me and posting. I don't know what I can do to check up on him at work. We had both agreed last May to get internet access off our computers at work. I agreed so I could show him my support. Well, I stopped in a couple times and he still had it and I had mine taken off no problem. He always had an excuse that they hooked him up periodically when he needed it for work. I was finally fed up in September when he disappeared for 2 days and I had it put back on my work computer - after all, it's not me abusing it.<P>How can I check up on him? His systems administrator is big into pornography and forwards him stuff so he looks past anything my H does.<P>Wow, my H got on those same Yahoo sites. I cringe whenever I see a Yahoo commercial knowing marriages are being destroyed.<P>I look forward to any information you can provide.<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
Hi,<P>I have read some of your postings and find that I have been there also. The stages you are in sound like the beginning. My H (WS) went on the internet and prowled. Met a few women and finally met one that his is currently in a EA/PA affair with. <P>The anger he carried, helped him (by giving him the excuse) that he needed to leave his family. He actually said he was trying to make me angry enough to kick him out so that he could tell OW 'see my wife does not love me.' Well, that plan went wacko. I told H that I did love him and wanted to get him help. Being a at this point semi-honest man, he could not tell OW that I kicked him out. So they went to their next plan. Make my life miserable. <P>I countered by being nice and checking up on OW. Then I planted seeds of doubt in H's mind about OWs loyalty. That held things for a while. Well, the A took a strong turn and 1 month after d/d H moved out. <P>Things are not going well in psycoville. H and OW have (without my help) broke up at least 7 times within the past 3 months. Great!!! Now H is out there and wants to talk about coming home. <P>See where this is going? I decided that I would not let H & OW use me as a doormat any longer. I would not be 2nd choice. That thinking process took a while but thanks to some people here who would not give up on me (I tend to be a bit stubborn), I was able to turn around and actually put myself and child 1st in our lives. Now the onis is on H to prove he can come back and show what value he can bring to his family to make us want him back. Plan B. Acceptance stage. This takes a great weight off my shoulders. I come to this site daily but now I have a purpose in life and a clearer mind. <P>I prayed that I would have a clear mind and calm heart through this entire ordeal. For the most part I did, only when I let my emotions get too much in the way, did I get a bit cloudy. We all know what fog does to the Ws's so I was determined not to let anything cloud up my mind. That took effort, that took time for me to concentrate on my son and I. That also took time away from worrying about what H was doing since he no longer lived with me. I told H, I only have the time and energy to worry about those who live in my house. Since he no longer lived here, then I could not worry about him as much (I did not give him the satisfaction that I did worry about him at all). <P>So ladies, sometimes, to help them heal, you gotta let them go a little, watch and be there for them when they fall. That is the hard part of this game/fog A. thing. <P>My 2 cents for whatever it is worth. <BR>L.<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Orchid (edited April 09, 2001).]
Free2Bee:<P>Well I thought about the reply I would give you and I can say that you have done some of the things I tried which is to get access too and play the game along with him... it made us more distant,,, I tried every angle for 8 years including at times when I busted him to write to some of these ladies and tell them off... several years ago I even found out their phone numbers and called their Hs',,, this turned out to be one big GAME for my H since he and I were so bullheaded that he said that what he was doing wasnt wrong and I would say it was,,, after years of this I finally gave up and settled down to getting my EN met elsewhere and only required him not to do this from the house... it hurts to think about how I was willing to let him keep on playing hoping he would eventually come around,,, I was a good wife and thought I was doing everything right,,, but internet use is an addiction and he had to hit rock bottom to see the devastation for himself...meanwhile I was making things worse too :-( rock bottom was when I filed and put his stuff outside the house and then the game was over for me...<BR>Dont play games with him and think about a Plan B of sorts,, let him know that he is still using the internet and that is LB since you are working on trusting him and you can not when he is not living up to his end of the bargain.... <BR>I agree with the Plan A stuff and I did for years and sometimes you just have to jump into plan B when you feel you have had enough and they are getting away with too much... you can only be a doormat for so long without hurting your self esteem... it hurt mine and I went to get it validated elsewhere which only caused me more problems... what a darn mess... it is over for us... since we have hit rock bottom and we now see how much we do care and want our marriage to work... <BR>Hang in there and let me know how else I can help.<BR>C1<BR>
c1,<P>My H is doing everything right at home. We are extremely sexual and we do things to make each other happy (cards, etc). If I didn't know his track record I would have no reason to doubt him.<P>At this point it's all speculation that he's still addicted at work. Last year he would casue fights so he could go to work early and play on the net - this isn't happening.<P>Right now it's just my gut thinking he couldn't possibly stop his addiction overnight on his own. I have no way of knowing and would love to be a fly on the wall. I've thought about those net nanny programs, but I would need to have systems administrator access to his computer if I could even get access to it. <P>Most days I trust in the Lord to open my eyes when the time is right. Like you say, he will hit rock bottom at some point and it will show in other ways - I will see the signs.<P>So I guess for now I love him 110% and if the time comes (and I pray it doesn't) I will be done with him. We briefly talked about that the other night - I found an opportunity to remind him that I would not stick around next time. It was very brief, but I made my point AGAIN!<P>Thank you for sharing!<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
Dear Jill and Free2BeMe:<P>Well, things are still pretty much the same around here. Haven't decided if H is trying to make me mad enought to kick him out and/or talk divorce or trying to hurt me enough by ignoring me so that I will give up the e-mails and the request to give up the OW too. At any rate, things are strained at best and I am seeing the counselor again on Thursday and will be trying to set up a session with the Harley's after that to move forward with Plan B. I think my H is of the opinion that I will go along with this way of living until I get tired of it and let him have his way. FAT CHANCE!!! this time. I'm getting tired of it alright, but not willing to give in this time to his selfish, childish, unrealistic way of thinking. Dread this for the kids and my 9 yr. old son will be so hurt and have so many questions and our little girl who is 12 and such a daddy's girl will miss him so badly even though she won't be able to understand exactly what is going on. Hope all is well with the 2 of you. Just wanted to touch base and update you both. Hit a very low spot over the weekend, but seem to be much more settled/resolved and grounded at this time. Will keep you posted and in my prayers. Thanks for yours. Take care......<BR>lonelyheart
Lonelyheart,<P>Thank you for the update - you sound positive and in control of yourself! You are taking positive steps for your own sanity by going to counseling and calling the Harley's. You are doing the right thing for the kids as well. Your H is selfish and childish and defiantely in a fog.<P>My continued prayers for you!<P>
<P>------------------<BR><B><I>RECOVER * REFOCUS * REGENERATE ~ BREATHE * RELAX</I></B><P>By Eleanor Roosevelt ~~<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>"People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built." <P><LI>"No one takes advantage of you without your permission."<BR></UL>
HI Jill, NSR, & Free2BMe:<P>Well,I have an appointment with Dr. Harley Fri. afternoon. I am so excited. You all have been such a great help and support for me as well as others here at the forum. Things are not so good here at home, but am trying to hang in there. It just hurts so bad, as I'm sure all of you know. Hopefully Dr. Harley can give me some direction in continuing Plan A, but feel Plan B may be just around the corner. The anger has escalated and recently H took it out on me sexually. He didn't physically hurt me, but it was still traumatic all the same, but I seem to have blocked it out as I have no real feelings about it that I can describe to you. Will keep you posted on what is going on. Thank you again for all the support/responses to my posts.....take care.<P>Jan