I'm not sure what to ask, if anything. I've just had recurring feelings from a year ago.<P>No Plan B reaction. This I am not surprised about. Not even a simple "yes" or "no" to my pre-B request to talk to Steve or Jennifer.<P>Worse?, my suspicions that OM was history have been dashed. To the contrary, everything in La La Land appears very cozy.<P>Dern. On one hand, this solves the mystery of how the A could be over with no movement towards reconciliation. But double dern - it's now been going on over a year with no end in sight. The unbelieveability of it all comes crashing back. It appears there's been a devious scheme to make it appear like it was over - in preps for her to file? How can a human be so callous? Why can't I get a break? Do I not deserve one?<P>I feel helpless. There's nothing I can do, should do except Plan B - which is already done. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch - the effort she's put into solving anything. How do they live with themselves? Two destroyed families, psychologically harmed children, destroyed reputations - she is so much smarter than this.<P>So, after several months of apparent dormancy, signs of continuation show up at the onset of Plan B? Coincidence or cause and effect?<P>I'm beginning to doubt my sanity again. Why can't a woman who's lost a son see the damage she's doing to the other one? Or am I so screwed up that I can't see I'm the problem?<P>WAT

(((((((((( WAT ))))))))))<P>You are NOT screwed up. You are NOT the problem. The A is the problem.<P>I don't doubt that the pain of the loss of your son has a lot to do with what is going on. I would bet that OM was comforting your W during the early grieving stages, where you were not capable, b/c you were grieving too.<P>All too familiar. When Andrew passed away, H and I did a lot of separate grieving. And things turned sour here too.<P>You are the better person here. You have done a damn fine job at plan A! You are a hero on here, no matter what happens (although you obviously don't feel like one right now).<P>The fact that the A is still ongoing.. well, that certainly explains a LOT, doesn't it? <P>I have a question for you. Does your son know about the A? If so, how does he feel? And has he said anything to your W about it? (okay... so it is 3 questions).<P>On a happier note.. how was the concert???<P>Karen<BR>

Thanks Karen - I know we can identify with each other. Yes, the escape from the pain is certainly a driving force - but you and I didn't need an A. How much comforting does she need from this jerk? He's a total [censored] - he was a pallbearer!! How can anyone be so arrogant? She used to berate him. Now he claims I hid money that could otherwise have been used on our son! Totally inhumane! Sorry. I know, I know. We're not dealing with rational minds.<P><Son> and I really enjoyed the concert. I wish all my MB friends could have joined us.<P>Dave (WAT)<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited July 10, 2001).]

Hey, I am now terminally suspicious. I never beleived it was over. But really that should give you hope. What a drag iw would be to start the timetable over with a new love... yuck.<P>Your plan B is doing just what it is supposed to on her end, now let it work on yours.... stop worring and analizing OK?<P>I have to say, they never react just how you expect them to to anything. No matter what I planed for... it was always somthing a litlte different to throw me a curve.<BR>Lora

WAT-<P>Keep that Plan B faith. Never in a million years could you be a part of the problem. Don't ever forget that you're the good guy here. I keep telling myself, "If you stack me up next to the OM, who is the better person?" One day, sooner or later, your W will see the truth. Will it be too late? Who knows. But you already know the truth right now, today, THIS SECOND. That's a good truth to know. Don't forget it.<P>Take care,<BR>zen

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Why can't I get a break? Do I not deserve one?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course you deserve one, Dave... and you’ve given it to <I>yourself</I> the minute the mailman took the Plan B letter from your mailbox.<P>I know this is far easier said than done, but let it go... there’s nothing you can do about it now. There never really was; you’ve done the marvelous Plan A required to show yourself YOU can be a better person (and you’ve shown HER, even if the MBW’s aren’t letting her see it). Now let Plan B do its work... not only on her, but more importantly on YOU. <P>I told Chris earlier, and I’ll tell you as well... no matter what the outcome, you’re ALREADY a MarriageBuilders success story! <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Hi Dave, (WAT)<P>You've been so much support to so many people here that I had to post a reply.<P>I can't say that I remember your story entirely, I've seen snippets of it here and there. So many stories to keep track of.... but try and take a step back here, and gather some strength.<P>I'm assuming that you just started Plan B? Now is not the time to give up. Plan B is a new stage in the process, it may also be the beginning of the end. Neither result is particularly good or bad, depending on your perspective...<P>You must allow Plan B some time. It will _not_ work right away, at the announcement of it. Judging by your posts you've got a great handle on Plan A and have been doing it successfully. You know the concepts and how they work, remember that. Now you have to recover from Plan A, being a 'doormat' is not easy, nor is it healthy if done too long. Work on yourself and try to put your WS in the background. She _is_ smarter than this, but is lost. Give her time to find her way. Rationally, she would never give up all the things you mentioned, she would never want to be the cause of all the pain that has gone around, but she has. She needs time to realize that.<P>The ENs that you have been fulfilling for her, that she has been taking for granted, must now be taken away. Let her realize what she had in you and in her family. In time, this is what may draw her back to you.<P>But Plan B also is a huge transition for you. Your focus is no longer on her, you have to consider that she may not come back. You have to focus on you and your family. And when you want to reach out to her, you must realize and be confident that you have already done everything that you can, you have no regrets about your actions so far. Look at [H]'s story, he had no contact at all with his W for 3 months before he wanted to come back, before he realized what he was missing.<P>Don't wait by the phone, don't put your plans or your life on hold, just go out and live it. You _will_ feel better. Regardless of what happens with your W, this is the beginning of your recovery. And if in a few months she decides that she wants to be a part of that, then that is your choice.<P>A better life _is_ waiting for you, and it will find you with time and patience...<P>All the best to you,

I read the stuff on the 'money hiding'. I am not very good with anything financial, so I didn't post (that I can remember...grin). They are going to believe what they want to believe. There is NOTHING you can do about that. YOU know the truth. You never "hid" anything. If that's what they need to believe to keep you in their bad books, then so be it. Who needs that in their life anyways? None of us do.<P>All the more reason why Plan B is the place for you.<P>Let me guess, she USED to berate him because, she just didn't know what he was going through, she didn't realize what a 'great guy' he was back then, fogtalk-fogtalk-fogtalk. Total B.S. if you ask me! It is SO... annoying that these OP's are put so high up on pedestals. I'm still waiting for my H to see how OW#1 is only the dirt underneath of it. Grrrrr!!! <P>Karen<P>

Dave,<P>I don't even know how much help I can be to you but you sure have helped me in the past and I would like to retrun the favor.<P>Expectations can be a real bad thing when dealing with a ws. We are often left with disappointment. I think you've had way to much of that lately. Now that you are in Plan B, let go. Let go of any expectations (i don't mean hope) of what her reaction will be. She is the wild card here. It's time for you and your son to start living life without the constant stress and pain of your wife being absent. It's a double edged sward from what I understand. You don't communicate anymore but you don't have to deal with the craziness of it all. I imagine that as the days go on that you will have a new sense of peace. The ball is in her court. The decisions are up to her now. It's your turn to take a mental break. No more analyzation of what's going on in the mother ship or what stage on incubation the moose worms are in..........<P>Revisionist history - that's what the whole money thing is about. Bad bad Dave,, kept money from his sick child..... Nobody in their right mind will believe that! They might believe it themselves because they are NOT in their right mind. Ignore it. It's as ridiculous as they are.<P>Don't doubt your sanity. You are one of the most sane people around here. HMMMMMM....just kidding.<BR>You can't control anything she does no matter how hard you try. Let it go. Trying to control the situation will drive you batty. She's going to do whatever she wants no matter what you say or do. When you stop trying to figure out what she is doing is when you will stop doubting your sanity. Of course, when you are not doubting your sanity you feel much better about yourself. <P>cleo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Topie25:<BR><B>I don't doubt that the pain of the loss of your son has a lot to do with what is going on. I would bet that OM was comforting your W during the early grieving stages, where you were not capable, b/c you were grieving too.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My exact sentiments! Your W may have been very fragile after experiencing the lost of your child and the OM very well took advantage of her weak state of mind and moved in with the grace of the snake that he is. Even good, solid marriages have faltered over the demise of a family member. My in-law's lost their oldest son to suicide nearly eighteen years ago and their storybook marriage deteriorated rapidly for a few years until they finally got a grip on reality. Although neither one considered an affair (I don't think, anyway), my MIL wanted to sever her relationship with her H and move away from him because of the bitterness they had towards each other. Thankfully, they recovered....together.<P>WAT....did you or your wife have any form of counseling during your time of grief?<P><BR><P>------------------<BR><B>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!</B>

Wow, thanks folks. I needed a boost, obviously.<P>No matter how strong a face I can wear, I'm still vulnerable and prone to relapsing into despair.<P>Karen, I forgot to answer one of your questions. I have explained everything to my son in an honest way for a 12 year old. But, he doesn't believe that his Mom could do that. She has him hoodwinked just like many others. <P>You see, she was such a terrific Mom and caregiver during our younger son's illness, such a giving and caring person to others during our ordeal, that no one could believe the rumors they heard. It just didn't fit together. We were know throughout the community as the model family for dealing with a child with a life threatening disease. We set the standard for families going thru bone marrow transplants in our hospital - they rewrote the rules because of what we accomplished as parent care givers. We were admired by so many people - after our son's death - for continuing on with dignity and resolve. <P>Then it crashed. <P>All of a sudden, she wasn't perfect. 100%, total change. The perfect Mother had a dirty little secret that she didn't care about keeping secret - it wasn't happening, it didn't exist. But, she CAN'T be wrong. This is so right. I was so bad. How could I treat her "like that" after what we'd been thru. This is when I first described it as an alien abduction - I had no other explanation. Bizarre, surreal, unbelievable - all the adjectives.<P>OK, I'll shut up.<P>Thanks again.<P>Dave (WAT)

It IS an alien abduction.....<P>You've done a great job, you couldn't have done more. Remember, avg affairs last 6 months to two years after seeing the light of day. Remember Freedom????<P>You keep doing what you believe is right. <P>Lori

WAT--<P>I have no great words of advice to give...just thanks for all the support and encouragement and knowledge that you share...<P>[[[[[[[[platonic, supportive hugs]]]]]]]]<P>Cali

WAT, you are one of the most kind and caring people on this site. You deserve a break more than any of us. I am sorry it seems like you are not getting it. But like someone said - make your own breaks. <smirk> <P>You did one of the best Plan A's I can ever imagine. I admire you for that. <P>LOL<BR>HbH

WAT:<BR><P><BR>A lot of what you're dealing with is classic "giver's snap". And I personally think it's good that the affair is still active---it means that she wasn't ready for reconciliation (it explains the lack of progress), and now that Plan B is in effect, we'll see how well OM can do at meeting her needs. As bad as it looks---it may turn around just as quickly.<BR><P><BR>It's really early. You're not out of this yet. And I'll reiterate what WhoDat said: either way, you are a MB success.

WAT,<BR>AAWWW, hang in there buddy, of course it feels bad. It's a new stage in your "relationship" with your W. It's also a hard place to come to, giving up contact, giving up the tiny snipits you used to see of her. Just remember it's not exactly giving up on her or your M just yet. It's not giving up hope. . .just distancing your self from the pain.<P>I agree w/everyone else that you did a wonderful Plan A. Just sit back & relax now. . .what will be, will be. You, I KNOW, will be just fine, no matter what your W chooses to do. You will also be able to live with yourself, for knowing you gave it your all. Thinking of you, & praying for you & your family (won't be the first time, I just want you to know!).

WAT,<P>This is STL speaking through zorweb, like a ouiji board only better… (or is it the ziji board?)<P>Hang tight… she probably only got the letter today. Mail delivery to the Mother Ship is sporadic. Give it time to sink in. <P>STL (via Z)<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

{{{{{{Dave}}}}}}}<P>Pay no attention to her and go sailing!!!!!!

Dave,<P>In real time, you just mailed the letter. The post office just stamped their postmark and the mailman is now delivering it. Add to that the pulling it out of the mailbox, trying to 2nd guess what is in it, analyzing it before opening it, opening it, analyzing again before reading, reading it, re-reading it..... well it could be a few more days. Can you make it???? Yes. <P>Oh, yes don't forget it must be translated to fogese before you get a reaction. 2 more days added on. <P>Alright, I will stop with the funnies. You need to relax. I know you are anxious and so was I. But it doesn't make it go faster. Here is the easy to say hard to do advice. Take your fingers out of your ears, you have heard this before. Go out and do something fun with you, Taz and your son. Go see Shrek or Evolution...... something funny/crazy. Go to a lake and race those little boats. I have one, wanna borrow it? Find a reason to .<P>Do it for yourself and for us. Please. I can't do that right now. I would really enjoy knowing that someone can. <P>You don't need a just a break, you need a vacation - personal time set aside to go out and enjoy what is already around us. This A stuff has cluttered our lives so that most of us are not really appreciating the good things around us. Boy I wish it would stop. <P>Hey buddy, hang in there with us. Your reaction is coming..... just can't predict when.<P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>

I understand all of your feelings, because they are so similar to mine. I analyze the fact that it is more than a year, and my wife is still with OM alot. I figure the "affair" must be over, but she is still with him. However, I bet the "affair" isn't over.<P>We know the timeframes can be 2 years. I stick with that thought. A year seems like alot, but it can be longer.<P>The bottom line is, you left the dock on the Plan B boat, and it is moving. You have reasons for doing it, and those reasons don't change regardless of what you learn about your wife. Give this some time for it to settle down. She may not have the letter yet. Don't stop the boat....keep it moving. You'll feel better, and we also know from others, that IF this is to have an effect that we'd like to see, it can also take time. Not usually a week or two.<P>So in the meantime, we live our lives to the fullest, and make the best of it. We all have a plan, something that our WS don't have. We have to embrace the plan and rely on the statistics, but the beauty of it is that the plan includes the possibility of no reconciliation, and helps us to move on in the best way possible. Of course, we hope for reconciliation, but it isn't always in the cards.<P>Anyway, I'm here with you, we're on the same boat. And I think the boat may have sunk already if you weren't on it.<P>I'll look for more updates tomorrow.<P>Don't doubt your sanity. They can't see any damage being done. They are all the same in that regard. And it is unbelievable. But it just IS. We can't change that. Luckily we have MB so we know that it IS.<P>And regarding "it has been going on for over a year, with no end in sight". Well, assuming that, our Plan B is exactly what is needed right now. Kind of the catalyst to reveal the real truth. A dose of reality to see if it can continue to go on with no end in sight. Plan B is the next step, and that step is underway. So sit back and watch it, but take care of yourself while the movie is on, because we can only do what is within our power.

Dave,<P>You are definitely a success story, even at this stage. Someday, you will have the happiness that you deserve. I hope it will be with your wife, but no matter who it is, someone will be lucky to have you in her life in the future. You've gone through a trial by fire - and come out of it slightly singed and much improved... <BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hi Dave, I just happened to be cruising by and saw your thread.<P>A couple of thoughts - first of all, one of the points of Plan B is to force the OP to meet ALL of the needs of the wayward spouse. <P>The pressure is on OM now - of course from the outside its going to look cozy - but thats because NOW she can't get her needs met anywhere else. <P>But you don't know what is really going on. From my own experience, I have learned that EVERY time I thought my H's relationship with his OW was great - those were the times it was the worst. They fought like cats and dogs, I've read emails btwn them that were very eye opening. And all that time I thought everything was "cozy". <P>Instead, they were trying to force each other to meet their needs, and both were failing miserably and love busting right and left.<P>His failings will be more conspicuous in your absence. It just takes time. You only just mailed the letter.<P>She is going to have to hit bottom first. Change occurs when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change.<P>She's barely had a chance to feel what it is like to be truly cut off from you.<P>Hang in there, it does get better - just not necessarily better the way you imagine it to be.<P>(((hugs)))<P>------------------<BR><I>Pain is a given, misery is optional.</I>

Dave,<P>First, I agree with BR, Plan B will give her a taste of what it will be like if she loses you permanently and has only the pathetic OM.<P>Second, I just wanted to say that I hope I can be like you when I grow up . Hey, I'm over 40 but I guess I'll have to grow up sometime, and I think you've gone above and beyond what most of us can do. Too bad you're on the East coast or I'd come by later with some Becks or whatever you prefer.<P>Unfortunately, now is the time for you also to become ready for Plan D if it has to happen. I think it may still be unnecessary, but try to learn to enjoy life while you wait to see what will happen.<P>I hope for the best for your marriage, but especially for you.<P>Steve

WAT<P>No real advice here, just a bump to the top and a wish for you to hang tough...<P>Good luck<P>E

Thanks everyone for your tremendous support. I feel much better this morning.<P>This may sound like moose brain worms, but watching Cal hit that homer last night was inspirational. Yea, I'm a National League fan, but after that I found myself wishing that the final score would be 1 - 0. If he can produce a magic moment like that, I can re-discover the things I can do well, share them with my son, and bootstrap myself back to happiness. In my game of life, the final score WILL be 1 - 0. I win. (and I promise, NO "designated hitters")<P>Dave (WAT)