Dana - what is it you want from WS? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Quote from Dana:
sheesh, this is a refreshing change around here! A real man who doesn't speak in forked tongue! No convoluted, tortured Clintonesque excuses, no attempts to indict everyone else [well, everyone "could" do it if the circumstances were right, therefore, everyone is as guilty as me] Just..........simple HONESTY!

Thanks for giving us the REAL story from the other side, chaz, I really admire and respect your strength and honesty and your ability to step up to the plate. It's very helpful to me to hear the true story from the other side.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Dana -- Just what exactly are you willing to hear from WS?
Only repentance, apologies, and a** kissing?

I post on here for one reason only. To give insight to some BS's who have questions about the mindset and actions of a WS. And you never get anything but honesty from me. However you will never see me post something like Chaz.
Your statements seem to imply that Chaz's point of view is the only honest one you see from a WS. Maybe its the only one you will accept from a WS?

My purpose here is only to enlighten a BS who might need answers. And I think SnL does the same thing. Just simply bare who we are, and why we do what we do, or did what we did. I don't need to justify myself to you or any others on here. And that is not my intention. I simply thought that by providing answers to BS's that I was helping others.

Being a WS in this forum is a challenge. We are severly out numbered. I don't think my personal philosophy is anything like SnL's, but I think we both come from the same HONEST place -- in trying to provide insight to the thought processes of a WS.

None of our stories are the same. And yet we all share a common goal of trying to reach UNDERSTANDING.

I would have to second Lexxy in that there are as many honest forthcomings from WS as there are reasons for not accepting them from BSs. Even those WS that come here looking for answers to how to stop things, are at the very least honest, and at most courageous for stating they are weak. I, like Lexxy, SnL, and others have been totally honest, and look to help the insights of others. Sharing sordid details is something I don't find particularly helpful, and tend to avoid it, but mindsets, reasons, insights, and feelings tend to help. So, although my style may not be glamourous, humorous, or of the National Enquirer mentality, it is, nonetheless, honest.One of the reasons I came here and stayed, was to find out how to deal with my BS feelings, and have seen everything to loving compassionate BSs to the "get even" mentality from them. Again, approaches are not all the same, but the honesty in each of them is real. I do not tend to only read the ones that I find acceptable, since all BSs somewhere experience a wide array of feelings, emotions, and reactions. *Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*Trueheart

> Lexxxy, I post on here for one reason only. To give insight to some BS's who have questions about the mindset and actions of a WS. And you never get anything but honesty from me. However you will never see me post something like Chaz. Your statements seem to imply that Chaz's point of view is the only honest one you see from a WS. Maybe its the only one you will accept from a WS? jd, It is nice to get insight into the WS mentality. The difference is that some WS actually take on part of the blame for whatever led up to the A. I agree with Dana, it is refreshing to hear that a WS did not leave their spouse because they were weak. That is not good enough, but I can see that at least it is honest. As for a WS being here for only the reason of teaching me something, well that is good up to a point. But, why not spend a little more time working on you? To teach someone something is fine....but to learn something is priceless. You WSs that are here only to teach us something need to 1) get a life. and 2)realize that you will never be a better person if you don't also learn. Whatever you do, you need not come here and tell us BSs that we are the reason for what happened to us. We are part of it. But by damn so were you. Explain your thought processes. Tell us why you did what you did. Help us understand what you feel led to the A. Then stand up as chaz did and admit your own faults. Tell me, like snl did that you regret that you did not leave your S before you had an A. Don't be Pompus, and self rightous. You had a hand in the mess too. jd

nah JD. You're not gonna see me stand up like Chad. Wanna know why? Cuz thats not how I feel.Think of this as a path. Maybe I just started my walk. Maybe SnL and Trueheart are a mile ahead. Maybe Chaz is 5 miles ahead. We are all in different places. I am not in the same place as Chaz. Does that make my insight less honest? And I bet that there are a lot of BS's who have spouses who are in a similar place as me. Thats who I can help.I've never said I wasn't here to learn as well. And I have never denied accountability for my situation. I only tried to talk about how my marriage got to the place it did, in the hopes that someone on the other side of the fence from me would gain understanding.You said to step up like chaz or tell you that I have regrets like SnL. What if I DON'T? Huh? Then I'm not welcome? Pompus and Self-Righteous? It thats how I come across then you're right. What a waste of time. I'll stop posting.

Lexxxy,I don't post often but read the board everyday. I'm a BS and have been both enlightened and frustrated by your posts. I will say that I have always seen honesty in your comments. I was going to respond to Chaz's post yesterday but had to leave for a work situation. My comments were going to be along the line that he was not weak and to keep pushing forward and getting strong for himself. I think most of us BS would love to hear what Chaz was saying (and I do believe Chaz was being honest). It is a lot easier to hear that then to hear some of the things you say. In fact, most of us have heard what Chaz is saying only to find/figure out later the cheating continued. It's pretty easy for us to see a post like that and see hope. After being on this ride for 8 months I've come to learn that my marriage would be easier to work on if my W's responses were more like yours and less like Chaz's. I would like to make one comment to the BS's. My couselor sent me to this sight about 3 months ago. I did plan A without even knowing it. Things were coming together pretty good for me and W until I started insisting on no contact. We have not made any progress and even regressed since then. I discussed this in counseling yesterday and came to the conclusion that the "no contact rule" has to be given by the WS. Until WS gives up OP on their own nothing we do is going to do any good. The "no contact" rule is something that we (BS) cling to much to on these boards. It provides hope but most of the time it is false hope. It will happen in it's own time if it's going to happen at all.who

I think that this is getting blown out of proportion.BSs... Until you came to MB wasn't one of your LBs to question the A, to get inside your WS head and figure out what they're thinking? But you never got anywhere, did you? only argued some more with WS. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Here's Lexxxy still in the "fog" who is willing to tell you what is going thru a WS's head while in the "fog"... It may not be what you want to hear but it is honest. Just like what your WS says may not be what you want to hear, but WS will say it anyway. Go ahead and ask your WS questions ...see how many (honest) answers you get from them. And LB the whole time...OR you can ask Lexxxy. HMMM, if I'm plan Aing my bet is on Lexxxy...Don't run her off people. You want the inside scoop, here it is...in Lexxxy.TRUEHEART, Chaz and others who have come out of the "fog" are essential to this forum, also.We need their input. BUt we also need to face the facts ...not everyone of our WS's will return.Lexxxy puts it to the point...nice and sharp. You(BS's) can't live in a fog all your own where your WS will not be resentful or even hate you for trying...Let's be patient with each other. We are all learning from each other's experiences. No one story is like the next,but we all have one thing in common. We all created an enviroment for an A occur, now we are all suffering the consequences. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Lexxxy, I am not asking you to leave or not post. Just be honest, and take some of the responsibility for what happened in your marriage. And "FULL" responsibility for letting the A happen while married. I mean come on WSs, your other half wasn't there to help the OP stick it in.

jdmac1, You are soo right! I am WS and fully blame myself for A. Not for things that went wrong in my M because it took two to break it as it takes two to make it! It was not my H's fault I cheated,it was just the unfortunate outcome of our marraige going to hell.The guilt I feel daily is the result of knowing that I did this to us.So i accept the burden of my mistakes and am now full speed ahead trying to make things right again.This is only my third posting but i have read many and find great strenght in knowing I'm not alone everyone's opinions are valid and important and worth reading. Thanks to all who participate I've gained alot of insight!

JD -- I resent your implying that I haven't been honest.And I resent your implying that I think myself free of responsibility.And lastly I find your last comment crude.I think I've had enough.

Well, I'm not kissing anyone's @$$ or anything, but I really would like for you to stay on the board, Lexxxy. I've always appreciated your thoughts, even though sometimes I don't want to hear them!zen

Lexxy, This is not about you per se. It just seems to me that the mentality of some WS(you included at times) is to attempt to lay all the blame on the BS. The BS is at fault too. There can be no doubt this is true, with the exception of a few. You are correct in that my comments can be crude at times. If I offended you I apologize. I have only read a few of your posts on MB. From those I gather that you only want to end your marriage. I find that sad. If I am wrong then tell me I am wrong. Please do not feel that I am trying to drum you off the board. I am not. As I have stated, I find valuable insight from many WSs postings. Again I apologize for upsetting you. For whatever that is worth. Please do not leave on my account. jd

Lexxxy,take a breath man, relax, it gets better.i get my fair share of lambasting here.And for basically the same reason you do.what ive learned is that in the attempt to dialog and learn the thoughts and ideas of a BS, and yes share an understanding of the inner workings of a WS, there are some facts that while everyone is in general agreement on have to said to open the gate.the first is, there is a difference between the reason you had an A and the reason your marriage was less than great.and the people who can be held accountable for each are different, Your the only one responsible for the A. can we agree on that? it is likely that you like i share in the responsibility of the failing in the marriage. so now your senses are wide awake, you know what wasnt working in your marriage for you, and quite possibly what wasnt working for your bride, and you know deep in your heart that if only your BS would just do, just try and see how wonderful thing could be. if only she would.and you see all the BS's here who are oblivious to that reality, that if they would own their part in the badness of the marriage and just try how much better things would be.I get it man, i do, i dont know how to change it, nothing here makes me more upset then the unforgiving faultless BS, the sense that there is punishment due and that the WS has to provide some justice. not so much because i feel for the WS, but because i really do believe i think like you that there are opportunities for BS's to get through this much more successfully if only. if only they could see the part they played in the marriage as seperate from a justification for the A. it isnt about justifying the A, its about trying to fix the marriage.sorry your feeling prosecuted, been there, and recently too!later i have been pretty open about the fact that while i am very sorry for the pain i caused, i dont regret the relationship i had with the ow. as far as i am concerned she reached into the belly of a serpent and pulled me to safety. for that i will be eternally greatful.that isnt a pleasant thought for many BS's. of course not many BS's are a equivilant to my W.

jd, just my 2 cents, but my reaction to what you are saying in this thread was similar to lexxys (I think), that you are willing to accept the ws...on your terms, and then you spell out those terms, it is annoying. I can deal with the annoyance, I know the bs are hurting and I feel compassionate about it, those are my feelings. Others may not be so willing, and that is ok too, and they say so. IMO the harley principle re disrespectful judgements should apply here amongst the posters too. It is one thing to voice an opinion, or even to ask a point blank question to a ws....and quite another to offer a disrespectful judgement. In the final analysis you can't really know whether anyone else is right or wrong in their conduct. Lastly I read most of the posts, and I cannot at the moment recall a single ws who has come here and blamed the bs for their actual conduct re affair. It may be a fine line between saying you made me...in the sense of complaining about the bs contribution to the ws state of mind, and saying the bs is responsible for one's actual actions, but the line is there, and I think any rational human being realizes it. It sounds more like you personally want to hear more remorse from ws, more public acceptance of their "guilt".... by now you must realize many ws don't think that way... right? So pursuing it with a ws is simply disrespectful....right? And you get the predictable result.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy: * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Dana -- Just what exactly are you willing to hear from WS? Only repentance, apologies, and a** kissing?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My "willingness" has nothing to do with it - I have no control over what other people write here. I simply respect and admire the truth when I see it. I resent having my intelligence insulted with excuses, blameshifting, and BS [from ANYONE], so it is refreshing to see someone who takes accountability for thier actions and speaks truthfully. Not too much to ask, is it? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy: I post on here for one reason only. To give insight to some BS's who have questions about the mindset and actions of a WS. And you never get anything but honesty from me. However you will never see me post something like Chaz. Your statements seem to imply that Chaz's point of view is the only honest one you see from a WS. Maybe its the only one you will accept from a WS? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good for you! However, I don't have a clue who you are and have never read one of your posts. Nor did I ever say that chaz's point of view is the only honest one from a WS. My comment to chaz was about his writing style and had nothing to do with you.

I am just amazed! A WS gets complimented for his decency and courage and honesty and everyone gets mad? [in some countries people actually are HAPPY when their brethren are complimented!]

C'mon people, this is a bit childish, isn't it? Like a sister who gets mad because her brother gets more attention. All this resentment is a bit ridiculous. Beam me up, Scotty!

I have read the posts here (at least up to now) and needed to throw in my 2 cents. Mind you, I am not feeling well, having the OW ruin my vacation with her calls and tell my H that I am 'forcing him to show me affection' is unnerving to say the least. In spite of that I would like to address the question: what is it you want from the WS? This answer for me comes in 2 parts:1. From my WS: The return of the love, honor and respect that was stolen from me. In return to give the love, honor and respect that is due you. All the details can be worked on or out later. That is the basic framework. 2. From the other Ws's that post here: You are all different yet similar. The category you have been given (by yourself and others) is not a nice one. The spectrum swings from quickly repentantant to I still not sorry for what I have done or I will still do it anyway attitude. Based on that broad spectrum of Ws's, here is what I see. This is a marriage building site. The purpose is to obtain the tools, skills, knowledge and wisdom necessary to help repair our marriages. If that becomes impossible (because it does take 2 to make a marriage), then the next best option is to learn to respect and better ourselves and become useful to ourself and our families. To return to be a contributing member to society and not an emotional burden. If we agree on that as a primary principal, then how we respond to these questions will be guided by the principal or purpose of our presence on this forum regardless of our 'category'. Some hard and emotionally charged questions get asked. The responses range from support to out right disrespectful judegments. Do we have the right to ask and be disrespectful? Yes, is it good? Of course not. However, some will do it. The good thing is that those on this forum are not all new, not are all angry and all are not in recovery and smiling. By the way not all in recovery smile everyday anyway.... LOL [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

So, let's understand and give the benefit and consideration when due. When someone gives comments steering away from the principal or purpose of being here, let's (those that recognize this and this number should be growing), let's gently steer them back. Those that are angry due to personal circumstances, let's help them breathe and steer them back to observe the basic concepts as taught here. How can we expect our spouses to benefit from our examples if we are bashing each other on the head? Mind you that may be what some of these WS's need (admitted by some), but we know we can't do that. The veil on some of the WS's is thick and heavy. Beclouded judgement can easily turn into a disrespectful response on either side. Yet you rarely hear of a WS being chastized for being disrespectful here. Hmmmph..... You Bs's do you feel that the WS's get to have their cake and eat it to? You are not alone in that feeling. Ws's here, have your eaten that cake and found it satisfying making you want more? If yes, then maybe this is not your real place remember this is a marriage building site, it does not promote affairs. To try and get that support, you will be sorely disappointed. Yet some have tried and left. I posted to Chaz about those in the A's can be of all sorts of personalities. He responed to the like that when a WS says that they can get shot down. Well crux of the matter is that there is no true pattern that will guarantee an A for anyone. Just the Ws's here have proven that. You have giver and taker Ws's, controlling and non-controlling Ws's, abusive and non-abusive Ws's and the list goes on. There is no real profile, there is one common thread...... the act of the A, the desire of the A is an act of a disrespectful judgement against the spouse, family, friends and God. That is not a point to argue. Just a fact. For those who want to dispute it, you have the right but it will still remain a fact. We all have a lot to learn. Since time is precious to most of us, then what we choose to learn should be important. Let's learn the good stuff that will help us, not hurt or harm us. Ok?I urge all who post here to make sure they are familar with what is written and provided by the Harley's. I did not say everything they say or do will work, but they are working on a better track record than most of us. So the combination of the 2 forces can have good results. There will be a win with that combination, it is just the type of win is dependant on our perspective and attitude. IMHO, L. [This message has been edited by Orchid (edited August 23, 2001).]

SNL, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>jd, just my 2 cents, but my reaction to what you are saying in this thread was similar to lexxys (I think), that you are willing to accept the ws...on your terms, and then you spell out those terms, it is annoying.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL, I suppose we can all be annoying at times. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It is one thing to voice an opinion, or even to ask a point blank question to a ws....and quite another to offer a disrespectful judgement.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I submit that a disrespectful judgement was made by both sides here ie; dana. Would this be a case of having a small piece of cake and eating it too? I admit I have been judgemental and have apologized for it. Lets leave it at that ok? jd

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy: I post on here for one reason only. To give insight to some BS's who have questions about the mindset and actions of a WS...My purpose here is only to enlighten a BS who might need answers...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe that is the problem? The answers will be different for everyone because everyone's situations are different and everyone's levels of God-consciousness are different as far as our strength and ability to believe for the miracles we all need. To me, Lexxy, when you say you have come to 'enlighten' that sounds like a moral high ground stance... It raises the question in my mind "who are you?" Then I have to decide how valuable your opinion would be to someone like me, etc... To gain valuable insight on how to build my marriage, I don't want to sit at the feet of someone who is failing at it! I would rather choose to be 'enlightened' by someone who is successful at marriage, you know--someone who has been married for years and years and who was able to remain faithful so that I can glean from their success! OR couples who have survived affairs and rebuilt to the point of no turning back. What violates one person's conscience may not violate another's. What is good for you may not work for me OR my marriage, etc. Everyone's decisions are extremely personal. Therefore, the only problem *I* have is when one person attempts to speak for ALL in that category. OR when BSs and WSs get lumped into one big pot AS IF everyone's attitudes and levels of consciousness are all the same.The only thing that remains the same is that SIN is SIN. Call it whatever you will, it boils down to that one thing. Period. And sin separates people from God. That's the bottom line. Life is about relationships. Peace with God brings inner peace and that makes for good relationships. We can't love others as we love ourselves if we don't love ourselves? If we are at odds with ourselves, how can we achieve peaceful relationships? Perhaps I am shoving my beliefs down, but this is a site based on Christian beliefs, so there ya go. It says so in the book--HNHN.Yes, BS's are seeking answers, but the answers are usually right there in front if time is taken to listen and hear from within. If not, then God is right around the corner with the revelation, and that is where trust (faith) comes in. When people are desperately seeking answers from spouses who are giving the silent treatment, I just don't see how getting their answers from someone else's spouse will satisfy. I just can't comprehend that.I am not a BS, and I am not a WS, I am not involved in an A, nor is my H involved in an A. We are not in recovery and we are not divorcing nor are we divorced. I am working on affair-proofing my marriage because I know everyone is vulnerable to sin, especially me. It's mind boggling to me how anyone who has been involved in adultery can visit this forum, read people's stories and see the pain and devastation and NOT feel remorse?!?! Just absolutely mind-boggling. Call me one of the ones who is seeking to hear remorse from WSs, heck yeah!! Only then can you get busy rebuilding. If you're not sorry, then you are bound to do it again... whatever "it" is...My purpose here is to take proactive, preventative measures to preserve and protect my marriage. My goal is to meet my husband's emotional needs and avoid love busters.So I agree, it is true, we have to avoid making disrespectful judgments and just assuming that everyone out here is either betrayed or wandering. We cannot assume someone is taking a moral high ground and judging because most of us do not know each other well enough to determine the sincerity behind the words OR someone's tone of voice.I've been told that my bible quoting in my posts is annoying! I suppose because bible quoting can be used as a boot to kick people when they're down instead of a warm blanket to cover our sins. I don't ever mean to use bible quotes in a stabbing, kicking sort of way.WHY did I get involved in an A with a MM? I was a horny slut. Pure and simple. I was not confused, I was not weak, I was not in love, nor did I care that he had a wife. I was selfish and backslidden--so I knew better. It was not all that complicated and definitely not emotionally charged whatsoever. It was strictly physical although he told me several times that he loved me. Even I knew he couldn't possibly know the meaning of love--cheating on his wife! But I did nothing to stick up for her, either...[This message has been edited by BINthereDUNthat (edited August 24, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat: [B] To me, Lexxy, when you say you have come to 'enlighten' that sounds like a moral high ground stance... It raises the question in my mind "who are you?" Then I have to decide how valuable your opinion would be to someone like me, etc... To gain valuable insight on how to build my marriage, I don't want to sit at the feet of someone who is failing at it! I would rather choose to be 'enlightened' by someone who is successful at marriage, you know--someone who has been married for years and years and who was able to remain faithful so that I can glean from their success! OR couples who have survived affairs and rebuilt to the point of no turning back. ******************************************************** Lexxxy: My definition of enlighten: like flipping a light switch -- for someone who's spouse is acting like me, talking like me, thinking like me, reacting like me -- I thought I could let the BS know how something might be taken by their WS. If they were considering an action, I thought I could provide insight to an expected reaction. And maybe a "light bulb" goes on for the BS and they consider their action from that perspective.Never have I pontificated on my personal views of how marriage should be. Nor would I ever tell anyone that I have it all figured out. *********************************************************** BTDT: What violates one person's conscience may not violate another's. What is good for you may not work for me OR my marriage, etc. Everyone's decisions are extremely personal. Therefore, the only problem *I* have is when one person attempts to speak for ALL in that category. OR when BSs and WSs get lumped into one big pot AS IF everyone's attitudes and levels of consciousness are all the same.*********************************************************** Lexxxy: I do not attempt to speak for all. Maybe its interpretted that way. I try to give my view from my perspective. And I try to connect in particular to those who seem to be in the same point as I am. ************************************************************BTDT: Yes, BS's are seeking answers, but the answers are usually right there in front if time is taken to listen and hear from within. If not, then God is right around the corner with the revelation, and that is where trust (faith) comes in. When people are desperately seeking answers from spouses who are giving the silent treatment, I just don't see how getting their answers from someone else's spouse will satisfy. I just can't comprehend that. ************************************************************ Lexxxy: I think a BS needs to answer that. I simply thought I was helping someone who wanted to know. ************************************************************BTDT: Call me one of the ones who is seeking to hear remorse from WSs, heck yeah!! Only then can you get busy rebuilding. If you're not sorry, then you are bound to do it again... whatever "it" is...************************************************************ Lexxxy: Rebuilding doesn't happen for everyone. This site doesn't have a 100% success rate. But those who are here are making an effort. I may not be the poster child for the Harley principals, but is my point of view not valid for those that see the same demeanor, emotions, actions, etc in their own spouse? Can't that possibly help them decide the right course of action? *********************************************************** BTDT: We cannot assume someone is taking a moral high ground and judging because most of us do not know each other well enough to determine the sincerity behind the words OR someone's tone of voice.*********************************************************** Lexxxy: Isn't that what you did to me in the first paragraph of your post?????? ***********************************************************[This message has been edited by Lexxxy (edited August 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dana114: LOL!! I am just amazed! A WS gets complimented for his decency and courage and honesty and everyone gets mad? [in some countries people actually are HAPPY when their brethren are complimented!]C'mon people, this is a bit childish, isn't it? Like a sister who gets mad because her brother gets more attention. All this resentment is a bit ridiculous. Beam me up, Scotty! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>************************************************************Here we go again Dana. The problem I originally had with your comments was that you said "simple HONESTY...finally the REAL story....helpful to hear the TRUE story...." As if its the only honest post you've seen from a WS. Go back and read it again for yourself. In starting this post, I had hoped you would consider that you were too extreme in your statement.Now you're just insulting. I have not done any name calling, I simply wanted you to see that other points of view are honest as well. And to consider having appreciation for the diversity of points of view.

Wow...If I offended anyone, I apologize."TRUEHEART, Chaz and others who have come out of the "fog" are essential to this forum, also.We need their input. BUt we also need to face the facts ...not everyone of our WS's will return""As for a WS being here for only the reason of teaching me something, well that is good up to a point. But, why not spend a little more time working on you? To teach someone something is fine....but to learn something is priceless."I have always felt that I have learned more here than I ever "taught". I only wanted to share some insights and help anyone I could. Teaching only happens when the object of the lesson is willing to open up to the information given. I never meant to make a blanket statement, only that I think there is truth in most all posters here, WS and BS alike. I certainly never meant to imply that all WS come home, nor that those that do are any better than those that don't. Think I will just go back to reading for awhile. I am seeing more and more anger here, which I don't believe helps anyone. Again, I am sorry if I offended anyone. I was just adding some thoughts...honestly.*Go confidently in the direction of your dreams.*Trueheart

Ok. Enough is Enough.I'm not going to cause further turmoil to this board. I was offended and angry about some posts I felt were judgemental and demeaning about WS, not just in general, but specific to the few of us that post here. When comments are made in general (putting all WS into a catagory) I tend to let it go, because I understand that the person is venting or hurting. I started this thread because I felt that a few statements were becoming personal to us WS's who post.Trueheart, this conflict is not yours -- unless you have felt offended by some of the comments as I have. So please don't stop helping people. I think most are more willing to hear your story (and Chaz's) than mine.By starting this post, I only hoped to make the point that we are all in different places on this journey. And all of our points of view should be RESPECTED. Many of you (probably most of you) don't like where I am in my marriage. Maybe it hits too close to home. But none of you can tell me that only certain viewpoints are acceptable. Or that my feelings, thoughts, or anything else are WRONG. They're not. The simply are what they are, and I was willing to share them with you. Whether you like it, respect it, or hate it. [This message has been edited by Lexxxy (edited August 24, 2001).]

I'm still new to the WAW/affair situation so I don't have much to add, but I appreciate everything all the WSs are saying. That which does not kill me makes me stronger.I want to understand what's going on in my wife's head and how I helped us get where we are. So, thank you to all the WSs that take time to help us understand. It's not easy to hear but it's better than guessing.

Lexxxy:Of course you should keep replying, your thoughts and feelings should be respected and are. I am not a BS or WS but I learn from both sides on how to be proactive in my marriage.Learning about your feelings and surrounding factors that helped create them are an invaluable tool for stepping around the potholes along the marriage road. I personally thank you for your participation and look forward to your comments regardless whether I may agree or not.JMHO

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy: ************************************************************Here we go again Dana. The problem I originally had with your comments was that you said "simple HONESTY...finally the REAL story....helpful to hear the TRUE story...." As if its the only honest post you've seen from a WS. Go back and read it again for yourself. In starting this post, I had hoped you would consider that you were too extreme in your statement.Now you're just insulting. I have not done any name calling, I simply wanted you to see that other points of view are honest as well. And to consider having appreciation for the diversity of points of view.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't need to reread it, I WROTE it. Sorry you found my comments insulting, Lexxy, however, I really meant them and won't reconsider them. I am simply being honest. Hopefully your "tolerance" and "diversity" of opinions cuts both ways and you really meant your statement above: " And all of our points of view should be RESPECTED. "Or did you just mean SOME views? Hopefully not.My comments were a backhanded insult directed to any WS on here [and I have seen a few] who engage in those practices. [practices that I have ZERO respect for, btw] If you don't engage in those practices, you shouldn't take them personally. If you do, I hope you are insulted. However,like I said above I have never read any of your posts so I have no idea if you are like that. If you choose to take them personally, I don't know what to tell you.[This message has been edited by Dana114 (edited August 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by jdmac1: SNL, I submit that a disrespectful judgement was made by both sides here ie; dana. Would this be a case of having a small piece of cake and eating it too? I admit I have been judgemental and have apologized for it. Lets leave it at that ok? jd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jd, I will be quite honest with you here. I sincerely meant the comments that I made. I HAVE seen blameshifting, excuses, and tortured justifications, etc, take place here. The reason my comments seem disrespectful is because I have no respect for opinions like that. None. And nothing can make me respect them. I see "honesty" and "tolerance" promoted and valued here, EXCEPT when one dares to disagree with a popular view or challenge others. Well, tolerance is required for OPPOSING VIEWS; you don't need tolerance for views that you already approve of. SO I wanted to point out that "tolerance" SHOULD cut both ways.For example, one WS calmly explained that there is no moral difference between an adulterer and a non-adulterer because it could "just happen to anybody." [using this logic the only thing seperating us all from being child molestors is the "right" set of circumstances] I don't know about you, but I find that opinion especially insulting and pernicious; an outrageous attempt to justify the unjustifiable and an insult to the intelligence of any decent, rational person. Now, some have attacked me for making "disrespectful judgments" of an opinion that I have complete disrespect for, in an attempt to shut me up. I guess I am just supposed to sit by and let such a pernicious claim fly by unchallenged. Not to mention the fact that I am NOT Plan Aing the originator of these comments and certainly don't owe him the benefits of a spouse being Plan A'd. Further, those who have attacked me for making a disrespectful judgment are doing the very thing that they claim to condemn: making a disrespectful judgment. In thier opinion, pointing out that something is BAD is WORSE than the act itself. hmmmmm This seems a little cracked to me and I have never been one who ignored wrongdoing in an attempt to get along. Nor will I start.

What I am reading here is akin to being a fly on the wall in an argument between a BS and a WS (married to each other, of course). Is this how we intend to go about helping each other in this gut wrenching struggle of trying to save our marriages and better ourselves? It may be helpful to remember that we are here to learn and to vent, but not to exorcise our own marital/personal demons by trying to one up someone else. I've been guilty of doing this very thing, and I think we all need reminders.You see, this entire post can be a good learning experience for us all on how NOT to talk to out spouses (me included <ducking my head meekly> ) Nothing gets accomplished except having satisfied some base need to vent at someone else's expense. Hey, I've been on my best behavior writing this post - there is plently more I'd like to say.... but tempers are too hot right now for anything good to come of it. While I like a good tussel, I'll leave it at this. <throwing a pan of water on everyone> Now SCAT! lolKhyra

Dear Lexxy, Thank you for answering. Your points are all well-taken. I didn't expect you to justify anything because you said you were not here to do that, but only to help and enlighten... Soooo, I felt free to give my impressions without offending you. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lexxxy: [QUOTE]Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat: [B]BTDT: We cannot assume someone is taking a moral high ground and judging because most of us do not know each other well enough to determine the sincerity behind the words OR someone's tone of voice.*********************************************************** Lexxxy: Isn't that what you did to me in the first paragraph of your post?????? *********************************************************** <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>NOT AT ALL, which is why I typed the above paragraph so as to clarify my position and my philosophy which was NOT assuming anything about you... We must read carefully. In my first paragraph--(look again and see)--I said your coming here to enlighten BSs "sounds like," a moral high ground stance. Meaning that it could be interpreted as such, not that it was and not that I or anyone necessarily took it that way. Think about it...As in any of these conversations and posts, there is no need to take offense, explain or justify when it doesn't apply. Why? Because people are going to think what they want to think and assume what they will no matter what is said in hopes to clarify. People are going to think what they will based on the way the information is processed. Out here, most of the information is being filtered through a lot of intense emotions and not a lot of logic so people are very sensitive and rightly so.So I apologize if my comment struck a nerve with you, it's just another one of those things that makes me go 'hmmmmm.'