has anyone hurt an OP - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Hey guys,I have just watched a show wherein a BS so poignantly expressed the feelings she had being betrayed. It involved her husband of 41 years, and having found out at his funeral that her husband was having an affair by the OW showing up at the funeral.Her description moved me. She implied that all she had was her 41 years - and that the OW robbed her of all those years of happiness in one afternoon. She said her life was wasted and that the OW was responsible for theft and had committed a crime against her. This BS in this movie was on a jury (the trial involved another BS who shot and killed her husband for his affair). I have had many friends say to me that the OM is not at fault here, that it is all on my wife's behaviour and dishonesty. However, I can't get past the anger I feel for him. He knew about me from jump, he walked past pictures of me into our bed!!! He continues to function normally after having robbed me of the years I thought were mine - well it leaves me wanting harm to befall him, hoping for it sometimes, thinking of it. I know turning the other cheek is a mainstay of many of you - but I also know an eye for an eye comes from the same philosophy. My question to BS's is: have you ever confronted a OM or OW? Has anyone sunk low enough to hurt the OM or OW? Has anyone taken any action against this human waste and if so, how did you feel after? I am not asking for advise on whether I should do something or not, I will not. He's not worth the effort. I would just like to hear about experience in this area, as it hasn't really been touched before - at least not recently.I have been accused of having too much "pride" in this issue - that thinking about hurting him is about rebuilding my manliness. I thought hard on this and I feel that it is not about pride or manliness - it's about a need for justice - a need to see a person pay for an action that has caused me years of suffering and loss.Anyone?

you didn't say whether the om was married or not also (making your wife the ow, and the same criteria applies to her)....but I am a ws, and the om (we were both married), I have no idea of course what the om in your life was like (people vary a great deal, bs and ws alike), I have thought about this alot, my role in the owh life, and what that means exactly to him (the owh had the potential for violence), and how this all plays out in the real world (none of us (bs or ws)are propery, owned by our spouses, and are free to make whatever relationships decisions we feel we need to make, there are repercussions and consequences of course, one of which you are asking about...I think everyone knows that.You asked for experiences of violence, I have none, never seen or heard from the owh....but if you want to ask anything else re being an om, feel free, if not I will delete this. There was a poster about 6 months ago who confronted the om and threatened him (may even have punched him, but nothing serious)...caught him in the backyard sneaking over to see his w. Nothing came of it, but om backed off (he was also threatened with exposure in the community).In general I see no real problem with confronting the op (om or ow), it is a source of information...but there are hazards, and they should be evaluated...as for wreaking violence mano o mano, I think you are kidding yourself...you do wanna establish male supremacy, let me ask you something, if you could do the violence thing and had the choice of 2 outcomes, but only can pick one....what would it be.1. He is indeed punished, and you are vindicated, but the affair may continue.2. He is intimidated and the affair ends (even if wife wants it to continue).I assume you would choose #2. That is a dominance outcome.I do think violence on om can be justified, but only if he is a predator, and your wife is in danger....and assuming the risks are acceptable (assault charges, or escalation of violence from om)...[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]

Good topic Harley.I too have thought about this but never thought about posting it her. I confronted the OM twice over the phone. both times I was the agressor (naturally). It felt good to do so, calmly and nonhistarically. However, the 1st time (when I fisrt found out) had no or very little effect and later realized he and my wife talked and even laughed about it. The 2nd time (about 2 months later as I was trying to notify his wife of the affair) drove my wife to moving out and to her parents (this was previously discussed by us). So it did feel good, but had negative outcomes as well.I agree that it is not necessarily a pride thing or macho thing. I think it is about vindication, an eye for an eye. He and my wife had the affair, I love my wife and able to try to work this out, I dont love this guy and want him "punished". this can be done other ways than physical, as I am sure you realize. Your own control my be frustrating enough for the OM and wife for at least some vindicationPanaju

The question posed is not only a question of violence, but of any actions towards OP. Could mean an argument, a heated conversation, a "dirty trick" played on them to harm things they endeveour in life - essentially anything done to negatively affect them.In my case the OM was not in a relationship, but he knew my wife was my love. He knew of me but not knew me personally - and he continues to try and initiate contact with her. (last confirmed attempt at contact was a few days ago.)I have phoned him once in a heated moment (1 day after dday) and threatened to kill him. He SMS'd me back sayin he is a peaceful man and stay out of his life. Funny, the little [censored] had no problem getting involved in and ruining my life. You truly believe that I am acting out male pattern macho stuff? You don't feel there is any merit to wanting justice, for wanting him to suffer as he has made me suffer? I wonder if healing myself would happen faster knowing HE is suffering.As for your question I would definitely answer number 2. I would want him intimidated away from her. This would mean that even if I left her I would want fear in his bones about ever seeing her again. Kind of killing two birds with one stone in that she would not have him even in the event of my leaving, and he would be too cowardly to try. And believe me when I say I am capable of that kind of intimidation.In this case she swears that there has been no contact since the letter, but she doesn't know I have a "mole" in his circle of friends. I know when he inexplicably knows about things my wife and I have been doing since the affair, I know that he does talk about calling her using someone elses phone (so I won't see the number). I have heard that he talked about her phoning him from her office - but as yet I can't confirm that. She will not admit to it, and I have decided not to press further on that issue. If my wife is using the time away from me to contact him I will find out without a doubt. The microscope is on them both much more than they realize. Anyway, the reason I say that is because I do feel he is acting in a predatory way - that even if and when she insisted on him not contacting her - even for his safety - he is spitting in my face to try. In situations wherein I find out he is trying to contact her or speaking about her I have a hard time remaining distant and peaceful - the voice in my head says it would be the right thing to do to confront him. The reason I haven't yet is that I know my propensity for violence and know I could hurt him alot with relative ease.I am struggling with the knowledge of having been robbed, manipulated and laughed at by a person not 1/10th the man I am. It irritates me more than actually angers me, he is such a peon I can't even believe my wife would stoop that low. That having been said, it still feels like for me and any other BS I have read about - justice should be served somehow, in some way. What do you think?

bumping for attention [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I have been reading here for the last 5 months or so but have never posted. Sorry no one knows my story yet.
I will rectify that shortly now that i have posted.But this post is just too close to the hundreds of thoughts I have had not to reply to.Allthough I have never seen the "invisible man" close enough yet to really know what he looks like I do know what will happen if and WHEN I do. I WILL gently prevoke him, And he will have 2 choices....1. Cower away without saying a word.
2. Prevoke me back. I will be happy with either one.A duel at 20 paces would be the best but I think as men we have lost that right.

Ok, harley, looks like you want some more feedback. Yes the om in your life sounds like a predator, and in some screwey way I think it does make a difference he is single, there is something about both people in an affair being married that makes it a level playing field (but that is another philosophic issue). So being single and a predator, maybe a bus will run over him, and cosmic justice served. The predator stuff is tough, people are free adults in this country, and if your wife is encouraging him, then you little status, being married to someone does not make you their parent etc. BUT if she is trying to break away and he is not respecting her, that is strike 1, if as well he is bragging in such a way to others that is predator strike 2 (he should be agonizing over this, not bragging about it)... strike 3? Well, your gut instinct I suppose, you talked to him.In my case had I been contacted and threatened in the same way, I would have responded that I understood his feelings, but that he does not own his w... I would have done him the courtesy of some insight into my understanding of the difficult place we all found ourself (if he asked), and I would have suggested he needs to work with his wife toward a resolution, and I need to work with my w for same, but that the nature of any contact between me and his w was up to her and I....however, by the time it got past the good friends stage, and we knew we were in emotional/physical trouble, we had allready concluded we had to stop and resolve our lives first, and we are. Been 1 year since I saw her, and almost 8 months since I talked with her... btw had he threatened me, I would have ignored him too, and probably made a police report (in case I disappeared one day), and been a little cautious, but no man worthy of being a man is going to let another intimidate him. Human beings are not property, and if your spouse (women threaten to kill ow sometimes too) is violating your marriage by interacting with someone else, you either leave them, or try to make it work, you cannot kill the op...and that sort of is the same thing about violence to em too. In fact anybody who would seriously hurt the op (unless they were a predator and was a real defensive thing) is unworthy of being married IMO, they have revealed they think they can own their spouses choices....marriage is voluntary and a spouse can walk away anytime they choose too, one of the chances we take in marriage.Back to you, yeah, I see some mixture, some man to man chest thumping, some protection, and some plain vanilla vengeance. But that is understandable, and if you are a guy used to backing up yourself with your physical presence, can be tough to be here. But as you have gotten older, I suspect you have realized violence (for intimidation) is a dangerous place to go, and not particularly psychologically healthy for you... is a poor problem resolution mechanism (whether you win or lose). Vengeance, well we all know that is the road to hell, satan would love for you to get enraged and kick his [censored], and what better way than to put you in this spot. I do see some defensive concern too, and some justification, and IMO that is where you should try to focus, how to bring pressure to bear that gets him away from your wife, to protect her NOT YOU, but is tought to pull off, be careful and thoughtful how you go about it, and physical intimidation is the trickiest tool of all, but it has its place.... trouble is it is a bluff, or if you follow through, you run very high risks of really screwing up your life (and if you have kids, violance is not an option, you put them at risk too, losing you to jail or whatever, and/or being in the middle of something crazy).harley...The question posed is not only a question of violence, but of any actions towards OP. Could mean an argument, a heated conversation, a "dirty trick" played on them to harm things they endeveour in life - essentially anything done to negatively affect them.snl..I know, but same applies to whatever you do re motivations....and revenge is the most dangerous of all reasons...to YOU, you will suffer the most, and become someone you should despise. It is the worst kind of possessive, jealous, selfish type of response. But a heated conversation, and revealing your feelings to someone, is ok IMO....although often less satisfying than we imagine...it is ok to want someone to know how they have impacted you, that is not the same as wanting to punish someone for how they impacted you...punishment is meted out by the state, God, and life itself...it is not a place an individual should go too.harley...I have phoned him once in a heated moment (1 day after dday) and threatened to kill him. He SMS'd me back sayin he is a peaceful man and stay out of his life. Funny, the little [censored] had no problem getting involved in and ruining my life. snl....I know this is rough, and feeling violated is part of the pathology (for the bs) of an affair. And I won't bore you with a long treatsie re this, but just say.... this is what people do, they interact with each other, it would be nice if marriage were some kind of automatic protection, but it's not, can't be, and shouldn't be anyways (not a cage)...so he didn't "do" anything to you, this is the result of many things, including your contribution to the failed marriage (affairs are simply symptons of failed marriages), you started down this path when you married your wife, the wheels were set in motion long ago. However, if he deliberately targeted your wife, and has no honorable intentions (meaning the interaction was about the same emotional things marriage is about..bonding etc.), then he is a predator for sure.... but your wife still responded, it is not about ruining your life, that is victim talk, and the fact of the matter is predators exist, and in large numbers...but the good news is, a predator should be fairly easily revealed, and the affair permanently ended, is much harder when real feelings are involved...so focus on stuff that reveals him for what he is (and no, do not try to educate your w, this requires creativity)...if can get the affair ended, then the real work begins with your w, and why she allowed this to happen.harley...You truly believe that I am acting out male pattern macho stuff? snl...some, just read your posts, and how you characterize the om.harley...You don't feel there is any merit to wanting justice, for wanting him to suffer as he has made me suffer? snl...No merit, is not your place to mete out justice. But if justice comes, and you throw a happy dance, don't think anyone will begrudge ya that.harley...I wonder if healing myself would happen faster knowing HE is suffering.snl..If it would, you have far more serious problems than your wifes affair. Is normal to feel this way, but it should scare you too, hate is a deadly poison, that consumes the holder, not the target, of the hate.harley...As for your question I would definitely answer number 2. I would want him intimidated away from her. This would mean that even if I left her I would want fear in his bones about ever seeing her again. Kind of killing two birds with one stone in that she would not have him even in the event of my leaving, and he would be too cowardly to try. And believe me when I say I am capable of that kind of intimidation.snl...I believe you capable, but let me ask you a question about love....you claim to love your wife, is that for her? Or because of what she adds to your life? (two very different things). If you do love her, and for whatever crazy, inexplicable reason, she choose this other guy (whether a good choice or not) would you let her go and wish her the best? What you said above is a jealous response, if I can't have her he can't either...that is precisely the reason spouses murder their spouse (and/or lover), if I can't have her, no one can....BANG.....think real hard about that harley, you don't really want that kind of reasoning to motivate you.In this case she swears that there has been no contact since the letter, but she doesn't know I have a "mole" in his circle of friends. I know when he inexplicably knows about things my wife and I have been doing since the affair, I know that he does talk about calling her using someone elses phone (so I won't see the number). I have heard that he talked about her phoning him from her office - but as yet I can't confirm that. She will not admit to it, and I have decided not to press further on that issue. If my wife is using the time away from me to contact him I will find out without a doubt. The microscope is on them both much more than they realize. harley...The reason I haven't yet is that I know my propensity for violence and know I could hurt him alot with relative ease.snl...That is a good decision, if you don't have enough implulse control to avoid spontaneous violence, stay away. Btw, that makes you manipulatible as well, would not be the first time a man was subtley goaded into an irrational (and illeagle) act of violence, and found himself restoring his marriage from a jail cell, very hard to do, harleys don't even have a chapter for it, ya know? You know harely, if nothing else good comes out of this, it is an opportunity to get your prospensity for violence under permanent control, and turn the propensity off, and replace it with decisive behaviour.harley....I am struggling with the knowledge of having been robbed, manipulated and laughed at by a person not 1/10th the man I am. snl.... Macho? (do I really need to explain that this was pure dominance?). Nothing wad actually done to you, we are not talking about property, but if anyone is to blame it is your w, she freely chose her actions (I assume she wasn't drugged or some such). And why do you car what someone 1/10 of you does, so what if he laughs? The truth is plain for all to see, but if it does bother you, you need to work some in the self-esteem dept (affairs do reveal that need pretty clearly).harley...It irritates me more than actually angers me, he is such a peon I can't even believe my wife would stoop that low. snl...But she did, just accept it, and decide what to do about it, life is like that guy, crap happens, it is what we do with it that seperates the men from the boys.harley...That having been said, it still feels like for me and any other BS I have read about - justice should be served somehow, in some way. What do you think? snl...Now there is a deep question....I have addressed it above...... but let me say this, you are talking to someone (me) who has no doubt God exists, and that I will stand before him one day, as will we all, and justice will be served methinks.As for secular justice, sure should be served, but not vengefully, or by you. Lots of justice occurs.... people lose jobs, get std's, have jealous spouses hurt/kill them (a sorta natural consequence of humans going crazy), and suffer poor relations with others cause of their poor skills, loss of money can occur, lots of things. Can even end up in court, etc..... Harley you are focused WAY TOO MUCH on these things, read this site, figure out who you are, who your wife is, whether you really want this marriage, and apply the tools in the proper manner, and what will be will be.... you CANNOT make anything happen, control anyone but yourself, and I think that is your biggest problem right now, accepting that....but you will. Just being here, and posting pretty much validates you have what it takes....good luck, and whatever happens you will be a better you, and have a better life, you don't believe that now, but you will come to understand it, just try to keep you dumb actions to a minimum [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] post here for support, ideas, and kicks in the butt, and soldier on.[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]

I'm the wife, and I did knock that sorry homewrecking sack of shi+ down when I saw her... on the floor flat... sorry but I have heard load s of stories of others who have to...Never been in a fight in my life... and as a very feminine girl, woman... I never imagined myself in this predicament... the anger I feel for her is so intense and horrid it is unimaginable..I did not plan this encounter.. my h and his ow walked into a bar.. that I had gone to ck out ... after my children told me they took them there... to eat... bar food, whle the two played darts and drnak beer... woohoo!I had to see where my kids went... and had a sitter one night,.. and went.. this was all 2 weeks after I found out, my h moved out and sd he though t he loved her... for the last 17 yrs.. he and I had been involved, and for 10 of those married... OK?He was the love of my life, and the father of my childrem and my H.Well, when I saw her... i dfid not even think... I knocked her flat , pulled... her hair out and whatever else I could do until pulled off of her...
'
unfortunatllye... or perhaps fortuntatley... I would of hurt her a lot more had people not been there to pull me off.. she had not a chance...I have heard of lots of people doing this.. in fact there are lots of heat of passion crimes... your crime if reported.. and it likely will be.. my "attack" was reported, I had to go to court... and eventually it was dismissed.. my h was involved, and refuse d to let his part get out of it... and I have now offenseive touching against my h... I did not even try to involve him in this scene.. he jumped into it....???SO, anyway... it is better not to do it... it did feel good... and I am glad it in some ways I got to pull her nasty hair out... but then again, I am very sorry... and regretful.. this is not me... did she deserve it, yes. does the law recognize this, yes..people get off for murder in heat of passion crimes... in no way do I recommend commiting any crime or attack against op... but I still have soo much anger towards this person..When I drive through the neighborhood, she still lives in, where my h lives... I am afraid I will see her car...as I would have the urge to run her... down... I am being very frank... and I have no intention of doing anything else to this piece of crap that came into my life... and hurt so many people... bu5t I will harbor hate for her.. until I can somehow relaese it, it is very difficult to do this....just wanted yout o know you are not the only one....with intense anger for OP... I can't shake it... and i Have talked to other women with it... and men too... me usually show it a bit more than women... but we women have some real anger too!RMM

Harley,
In my previous marriage I confronted one of the OW’en. She of course said that they were ‘just friends’. Basically lied and make up a story. I know she was lying because I’d called her first pretending to be someone else. Was friendly to her and was able to get her to talk with me… it’s amazing what a person will tell someone they don’t know if that person is friendly and gets their confidence. I never spoke to the other OW’en about the affairs. I knew a couple of them. One was the mother of a close friend of our son’s. But I ignored the OW’en as they had nothing at all to do with my marriage or me. If one of them ever tries to talk to me about the affairs I’ll give her hell. But I will not go out of my way, or lower myself to their game. They are scum, period. My beef was with my H and the way he treated me.I did contact all of my H’s OW’en, spoke/chatted with them for hours. That was how I got a lot of the info about the affairs. There was one who threaded to hurt me… claimed to be a witch. After my H sent her the no-contact letter sent me an email threatening to hurt me with her witchcraft. She thought that I wrote the no contact letter and was playing games with her. She was also angry because despite the fact that she promised me to not talk to my H again, she was IM’ing him all the time. The problem was that it was me, not him, on the receiving end of her IM’s. I’m not afraid of witchcraft but I am afraid of psychotic people. In response to her attack, I sent her a short sweet email. I did not blame her for their affair because she did not know he was married… I told her as much and told her that her anger really concerned me because it was an irrational response to things we had discussed. I was as sweet to her was possible. The fact that I returned her vile threats with compassion and understanding infuriated her. It was her choice to respond this way, as that is not how my email meant. She responded with an uglier and more threatening email. I realize now that I should have sent her emails to AOL’s abuse moderator. Basically they all told me that they would stop all contact with him. He did not do anything to contact them. Yet they were IM’ing and emailing him wanting to still be ‘friends’. I did let each of them know that I was privy to their little games and that they had lied to me. After that I dropped it. When they were involved in their affairs with my H, they did not know that he was married. But once I contacted them and they knew, once they had promised me no contact, their actions were wrong. I let them know how I felt about it.There two who are married/engaged? I am going to let their H/fiancé know that they are trolling the Internet for cyber relationships. They are still doing it today almost a year later. How do I know? Because I got online with them under an assumed name, pretending to be a guy. They are disgusting women. So with them I will do what I believe to be morally right. Let their SO know what is going on.But most of all, these women have nothing to do with me. It is not a rivalry between them and me. So beyond what I describe above I will do nothing. I certainly will not stoop to try to hurt them physically or in any other way. It would only serve to pull me down.SNL is right, do not focus on the OM. Focus on you and your wife. He made no vows to you. The best revenge you can have is to let him know that he does not exist. That he is meaningless.

If I told you of my dreams I could be jailed.I called one OW, their A had just began, and I explained to her that although H had told her stories to the contrary, he was in fact married, and did in fact live in the home and sleep in the marriage bed. I told her that she was wrong to continue anything with him, and she gave me a huge line of bs about how it would never happen again, she was angry with him for lying la la la. They were together for months after that.I was in the very city she lived, and made arrangements to meet her that evening with the intention of beating the crap out of her, but having never been in a fight myself, and considering she was just 23 in good fighting condition, and not knowing why I thought this was in any way a good idea... OK, I chickened out.I still dream of having some final revenge because although she quickly dissapeared when H had a bad accident, she is the root cause of my marriage having ended in divorce a few short weeks ago.Even to send her a note to say she was welcome to the [censored] now that he is free.Those will stay dreams. I am the better person. I will not stoop to her level. I blame him more than her.Elizabeth

Harley, The feelings you have are very normal. There used to be a fellow on here(MB) that had followed through on his emotions. He actually killed the OM. This fellow(I can't remember his username now)posted one time about how much he regretted what he had done. Not only did he do real jail time for the killing, but, he was haunted by dreams of ending the life of another human. It was tragic that it took the actual losing of a life to put some perspective in this guy, about the affair. In the end he realized what really mattered for him. As I recall, this guy had put his life back in order. Was married, happily again. But is haunted to this day by his actions. I think everyone who lives with betrayal must battle the demon of wanting to harm the OP. It is a battle you must win Harley. There are too many innocents in the background who don't deserve something like that. I wanted to kill OM #1 in the worst way. Even made promises to do just that if the guy ever came down my street. But I overcame that feeling. He drives right by my house at least once a week. OM #2 was threatened by me. But the only thing I did for him was to tell his future wife what he had done. I came real close(about 6 inches)to running over OM #3, but he gets the pass as well. LOL, hell man I would have to kill half the damn town it seems. Not really of course. Just know that the feelings you have are normal. You must put that in perspective and let it go. jd[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: jdmac1 ]

I too would be in prison, and very much on death row if I had carried out my bloodlust revenge fantasies on OM and xW.I happen to work for company that has some of the nastiest chemical substances known to man. I have total access to said chemical substances and the security is so lax that a terrorist would have a field day. It would be soooo easy for me to have gotten those chemicals out of the plant.For the OM I had planned to use HydroFluoric acid to bathe him from head to toe. For those that don't know what HF acid does, let me say that it is the most insidious chemical we work with because unlike a corrosive acid like sulfuric or nitric, hydrofluoric is not felt at all by the person exposed to it and thus treatment often comes to late to save the life of the person. Hydrofluoric acid seeps down thru the skin and muscle tissues until it gets to the bone tissue where it proceeds to literally 'cristallize' the bone. I know of one case in years past where a chemical supply delivery driver got accidentally bathed with HF and died in less than 24 hours. I beleive there was an episode of E.R. where that was the topic. A very slow and horrible death indeed.As for my xW, I would have used sufuric acid on her face so that she would have been so horribly disfigured, that no man would have ever approached her again. I remember also that in a southeast asian country, the wives of certain prominent men were using this same tactic agains the OW just recently.But thank God Almighty that they remained fantasies that had a very short life span, because now I get ill just thinking that I even contemplated them.Excuse me will I go puke.Joe

Falling Down, hang in there bro and post if you can. I am the typical "don't talk about it and it will go away" kind o guy, but this site has saved me lots of times in my dark hours. These people have true insight that WILL help you through this - the worst thing that could happen. I am there for you too mano, believe it. And BTW that whole provocation thing is something that I never thought of. Nicely put. SNL WOW if u r not in the proffesion of helping others u should consider it seriously. Your response has spoken volumes to what my heart was questioning, and I can see that you have great insight in these matters.I shouldn't have suggested I have a propensity to violence - I am actually very peaceful. I do know how to be effective in a violent way, but never would use it as an answer to a problem. Just within the revelation of my W 2 affairs I think I have shown that I can control anger - as no one has been hurt yet, and I can honestly say no one will. I have been in martial arts many years and understand that violence is acceptable only in a defensive capacity. My feelings of violence toward him are just knee jerk male responses to having been thrust in the middle of hell. I knew I would not hurt him the first day I found out, even as I phoned him. He is not really worth anything to me, certainly not enough to jeapordise my life, my karma or position with God. The reason I posted this thread is because of the movie I saw. It was a true story wherein an old lady of 70 years of age admitted to her fellow jurors that she would kill her husband if she had found out about his A before the old coot had died. It triggered all kinds of philisophical arguments in my head; like "why is it only me suffering? WHy does he get the cake?" "What have other people actually done to their WS and OP?" Where he is concerned I am sure some large machine will run him down in the future, or maybe he will get a mean case of Ebola. In a perfect world he will be the first case of Prolonged Spontaneous Combustion. Or better yet, maybe he will learn from this mistake and become a good person and live long and happy. The only concern I still have is in this "predatory" sense - but I have yet to see it escalate to a point where I would intervene. What I have heard about so far seems more like steam burning off a dead train.Would I let her go and wish her well with him? HELL NO!!! I love my wife because she loves me, because she is there for me as I am for her. I love her in a symbiotic way, in a manner condusive to us growing together and from each other. If she wanted to leave me for him she is not worth my love and in my book not deserving of the respect I would give anyone else on the street. Call it a defence mechanism I have developed. She will have rewritten the equation that made us and thus there would be a different result. That is the difference between me and this belief of turning the other cheek. I cannot ascribe to the notion that letting go as friends and wishing WS well as a person whom wronged you so badly is any benefit to anything or anyone. It enables their destructive behaviour to continue - hurting themselves and those they touch. It keeps your own pain close to you as you pine away at old pictures, momentos - wonderring, wishing. The end result of you expressing love to someone whom doesn't love you back is a pointless time consuming and silly exersize. I am sorry for being so blunt but in some cases I have read about on this site, I wish they would come to this conclusion as well for their own benefit. I have red posts that are obviously door mat cases, and feel so horrible for these women and men. As for my WW, I believe she has come to the point of self discovery, and is willing and able to move on and grow. My only thoughts now are; can I love her enough to try again? I am trying, but there still is so much pain, so many issues. I am fighting though SNL, and I appreciate this dialogue. I hope things are working out for you - you definitely have the emotional tools at your disposal.

Well, I am going to speak for my H as there was some justice served in our case. On D-day, xOM forced my hand, and I told my H about the A when xOM came over for just that reason. When I told my H, H told xOM to leave. xOM just stood there, waiting, I assume, for my H to kick me out of the house! Well, it didn't happen, and H ended up threatening xOM if he didn't leave. xOM threw the first punch, and to keep from getting further injured, H "bear-hugged" xOM. I tried to break it up, and got hit in the head my xOM for my efforts! I finally got a neighbor to break it up.Well, in the military, they are very strict about assault and adultry! Since my H called the MP's about the assault, and the adultry was revealed as a result, it went to xOM's command to deal with.xOM was definately the predatory type, as he had known about my "get back at H" A, and kept trying to talk to me. When I told him I didn't want to see or talk to him ever again, he started the harassment! Threatening to tell H all about that other A! Well, that really scared me, not that he wanted to tell H, but that he was so desperate to keep up the contact with me! H does know about everything now, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.Now, for the justice part, in the Navy, their "court" is called a Captain's Mast. This is the second level stuff is taken to, one below court martial! Well, being a witness to the assault, I was requested to show up at this "hearing"! xOM didn't deny the adultry, but was claiming self defense! I was honest, said that H did threaten xOM, but that xOM threw the first punch. xOM was essentially knocked down 2 ranks(he had just made the next rank and wasn't getting paid for it yet), and his medical hold was completed, and he was kicked out. Even though it says discharged for medical, he only got the pay for the lower rank, and therefore, was hurt in the second most part of his pants, if you know what I mean. So, we saw justice, and we know what it's like to be "stalked"! Was it worth it, I think that it was great to see him punished, and I have been dealt my own, as I ended up pregnant. We never have told xOM, and H is raising Abbi as his own D. Needless to say, I learned my lesson, and know my own signs of when those needs are not being met, and what to do at that point. I don't ever want to go through what I put myself and other's through 2 years ago!Hope this made cense, as I was typing between getting Abbi and myself ready for church! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Tigger

I don't think fantasies of violence are those belonging to the domain of men only. I have had many fantasies of running over the OW w/ my Subburban, leaving her flat as a pancake. Or stabbing her with a fork, repeatedly. I still hate her and although I know that for my own health, I must be able one day to release that anger, so far I am unable to. I think perhaps that it is because although the A is over and we are in recovery, we are still feeling the terrible affects of his involvement w/ her. He is in rehab at this moment, she was the one to supply him with his first hit, she brought it to him and so helped him destroy his professional career. He may lose his license to practice because of this. So, yes I blame her a great deal, but with the realization that he must accept his share of the blame as well. However, we are reaping ALL of the consequences for this, she dropped him like a hot potato when he got in trouble and has just gone on with her life, no guilt, no consequences at all. In fact, she is better off now than she ever has been in her life, with the great paying job that my H got for her. That just really sucks. I would like some justice, there is no doubt about that, but I don't think I will get it. Perhaps some day down the line, she will get some deadly disease from sleeping around so much like she does. I have actually been around her after the PA went to EA, but controlled myself beautifully. I was very much the lady, and found out later from her coworker that she was petrified and got very upset from me being around. She got off lightly! I think I will go now and fantasize about creative ways that she will get whats coming to her....

Well, what can I say.. not much.. but a whole damn lot in response to hurting the OP or having the same feelings that you have. I'm not going to tell you to follow your feelings or not to follow your feelings, because at the time of your forthcoming incident, it is going to be the heat of passion and you will do what ever your INSTINCT follows. Some people are fight driven, some people are flight driven. If your fighting for something you believe in, an ideal, a belief, a stance then I truley don't believe your 'less of person' or NOT worthy to be married to.This country is based on defending and fighting for ideals and beliefs and everyone of those ideals was worthy of the fight. Not one of our forefathers did 'not' deserve to stand up for what they believed in at the sake of losing ones marriage.Property? I believe that we are indeed each others property. When two BECOME one you can't unmix it. You are responsible for each other. I don't believe that you have the 'right' to leave because you now are getting your wick wet somewhere else or are being proped open like 7-11 and now you think that you don't 'fit' anymore.I look at it this way. Two became one. And anyone who sticks his wick into the half of you that calls herself your wife, DOES deserve to approach their final destination.

I confronted all of the OW... especially OW#1. It's been over 1 yr now since D-day, and I STILL have a vast amount of anger inside of me, which is directed at her. When xmas rolled around, I thought I was doing okay... until someone walked down my street who looked like OW#1 - the surge of anger came rushing through me. I was pissed! It made me see that I'm not yet over it, and God help her if I should run into her in public, because I WILL pummel her to the ground.Now, as far as 'hurting' the OP, I was a party in that with OW#1. There was a bit of a stink on here when I first shared it in a post.An internet friend of mine, who also knew OW#1, told me how OW and her H were wanting to adopt a child (I already knew that b/c of our now former friendship - but apparently plans were in the works). This new friend of mine worked with someone who happened to be friends with OW#1's adoption caseworker. (following this? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ). Anyways... I had done a LOT of snooping, and had a LOT of emails between OW#1 and my H. I forwarded them to this friend, who in turn gave them to her friend, who then gave them to the worker. This was back in March or April of 2001.During our early recovery phase (the first month or so), H and I were talking this crap out. I told him what I had done about those emails, and he informed me that OW#1's adoption case had been closed (for now) because of them.I was ECSTATIC!!! OOOHhhh... to have been a fly on her wall when she got that news! Apparently, her H suggested they sue me for deframation (sp?) of character, but that never happened. Too bad. Her H (although I confronted him on the A) didn't believe it to be true (sorry sap). If they had chosen to take me to court, then it would have all come out on the record books that there was an A.Yes, it felt great finding out that some revenge (in the safety and concern for an innocent child) was bestowed upon OW#1. But it still wasn't good enough for me. Part of me thinks that what I would need to let it go completely, would be for her to admit to her wrongdoing, and tell me she's sorry. But that ain't gonna happen. That brings me back to... God help her if we see each other in public sometime. Karen

No, I never hurt her but I sure did want to. My fantasy was to walk into the office where they both worked, march over to her desk and SLAP her. That's it. I wished a lot on her. Like, I wished for her to die.The reason I didn't act on any of my feelings or thoughts was because I didn't want to get on her totally SCUMMY level. I just couldn't sink that low because I'm SO FAR ABOVE HER in every way.That's it for me.Love,
BurningBright
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

There is a fine line between the sane and the insane. We all have horrible, vengeful thoughts. The insane cross the line to act on them.

Dear Harley,
I know the pain that you feel. In my case, I don't hate the ow. I think that she is a slut that does not care who she hurts in life, in fact she went out of her way to hurt my family, but it was my husband who had the commitment to me. It was he that hurt me, if you think about it, the thing that hurts is that he chose her over me. I knew that she was after my husband, and in fact warned him way before it ever happened to stay away, that she had a reason for being so "nice" to him. I know that I do not like her at all, but there are so many women (and men) like her out there, we can't hate them all. Some people just have no sense of right or wrong and don't care about anyone but themselves. (I know it sounds like I still have bad feelings towards my husband for what he did, but I've actually moved past that and love him very much, although I think that he was very wrong to hurt me and my children so much.) I'll probably never get over the pain of his affair, but I would never go out of my way to hurt the ow. (Although I have pounded her face in my nightmares!!) [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
mt
m 19 years
bs age 37
ws age 43
2 children
ages 14&18[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: mt ]

I had a chance to do serious damage to one of my xw's om. All alone, just the two of us. He had that "deer in the headlights" look on his face. It would have been easy. But I didn't. I really wanted to though.I also met her internet guy after the divorce. Couldn't do much there because it was at my daughter's soccer game.I've lost a lot of anger over time. The om just isn't worth the time or trouble. I wouldn't pee on his face if he were on fire.

No but my very favorite daydream of OW is have her photo put on billboards all over THE WOODLANDS, TX with the appropriate word (you fill in the blank) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>There is a fine line between the sane and the insane. We all have horrible, vengeful thoughts. The insane cross the line to act on them.<hr></blockquote>Z.. Apoligizing first [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I don't think revenge is that of man's, but I don't think that they are insane... One of the things that I have often wondered, is how many BS take their own lives BECAUSE of the offending affair. Do you think that the OP or the WS actually take that into consideration?I went to a BDay part today for my Stepmother's Father. He turned 85 today and he and his wife who passed a few weeks ago, divorced at 50 years of marriage, several years ago. He plainly displayed some emotions that she had passed and wished it seems that they would have never divorced. He missed her today. He has outlived all of his friends and his exwife. Sad to say.

I am the BS and my WH is the adulterer. The OW in my H life, actually severely damaged me with her words of suicide. H affair lasted for over a year. He had physical affair with her, and this is the OW 2nd physical affair. The OW kept talking to my H on the cellphone after I found out for sure. I would go to talk to H and find him talking to the OW, and he would go ballistic. He would throw things at me, tell me to get the h*ll out, call me a fu*king B*t*ch. It was pure hell for well over a year. She called me after talking to my H and ending her conversation with my H for good. She threatened me with suicide if my H and I were to tell her H about the affair. My H at that time did not want to be her dirty little secret. Now it seems my H doesn't care, if he is her dirty little secret. My H did at that time want her to tell her H that he married a woman who has had for sure another sexual affair. She obviously doesn't want her H to know, cause she is so afraid of the pain she will cause him. She called me 3 times in all, and the same was me, me, me, how telling her H was going to hurt her, and cause her H immense pain. She coerced me with suicide if we were to tell. I asked her if she had sex with my H, and she flat out lied. Yes, I want this woman's husband to know what type of person he married. I want the society to know that this woman doesn't care about marriage. I want her to know that she has hurt me, the kids, and life here has been pure h*ll. I would like her to know how H has pushed me down, threw things at me, kicked our dogs, told kids he didn't love our kids, told kids to get the hell out of this house, my H literally went ballistic. And still occassionally does. This woman professes to be a chritian, I guess christians in her eyes pull their panties down for men. Anyways, I know how you feel. My H talks about not be property. To the many woman out there, has your H told you when he touched your body, that your body is his, and vice versa? It made me feel good when H said that. Now that the WS had their good time with someone else, they don't claim to have you as property. My H at one time wanted to know where I was all the time, wanted to make sure I was safe. He doesn't want to know now, he doesn't call if I am on the road to find out if I am OK. The thing with my situation is that the OW isn't going to tell her H. She said all she wants is her old life back, and the security of a home and husband, and to have fun with her 2 granddaughters. So she is having fun, and we are having h*ll. She changed her phone after I called to tell her I know everything, sex, read all their e-mails, read all the sexual graphic writings, I know everything. I left this message on her answering machine, and 3 days later the phone was changed to a private unlisted #. I was calling for about 5 months and the phone wasn't changed, and now it is.The OP should tell their spouse all about the affaair. I would send a certified letter to the OP and tell them you are going to give your spouse the information. How can these WS feel good about themselves, knowing what they did and to hide it? Like my H's OW, she is a betrayer 2 times in her marriage, and she thinks she can sweep it under the rug and walk away. She is one screwed up lady. Which she told me this lady counselor that she talked to only twice, said there is something mentally wrong with her. Mental illness runs in her family.This is a normal feeling, and it won't go away until you have the caring, trust, thoughtfulness, etc. of your spouse. See, I don't have that, cause my H doesn't want to give this to me. That is why this is so strong in my mind. My H doesn't care about my feelings, or the hurt I feel. He can see me cry and just walks away, or stays at his computer. But I have literally in my dreams, kicked the OW while she was in the doggy position and my H was humping her, took their clothes away, pulled her hair out (H said she had a lot of bald spots), pulled her fat (she at one time weighed 200# and was losing weight) so I know she had a lot of loose skin and stretch marks.Until your spouse is thoughtful and caring, these thoughts are hard to put aside. Talking to the Harleys, they told me I am having a rough time because H doesn't want to follow the MB plan, and H tells me and the MB counselors, he will do it his way and his way only. Told H tonight he doesn't realize the pain a BS suffers. After a while of arguing back and forth, he finally admitted he doesn't know exactly. He can't, it hasn't been done to them. Even the MB say the same. It is worse than a death of a family. And I have had to deal with that in the last month too.

Husband2you,Nothing to apologize for. I agree that revenge, real revenge, does not belong to man. It could be part of my point in that quote. The sane may struggle with thoughts of revenge, but they do not act on them.And there is a big difference between clearing the air and revenge.One of the things that I have often wondered, is how many BS take their own lives BECAUSE of the offending affair. Do you think that the OP or the WS actually take that into consideration?
And no I do not think that the WS/OP taken a potential BS suicide into consideration. Why would they? An affair is a selfish act. It is a statement from the WS that he/she does not care what harm is done to the BS. Maybe even that they want the BS to be hurt. So no, I think that they would only see it as proof that somehow the BS was deficient.Your story about the 85-year-old gentleman demonstrates how much pain a divorce causes.

Thinker,Your not alone.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>One of the things that I have often wondered, is how many BS take their own lives BECAUSE of the offending affair. Do you think that the OP or the WS actually take that into consideration?
And no I do not think that the WS/OP taken a potential BS suicide into consideration. Why would they? An affair is a selfish act. It is a statement from the WS that he/she does not care what harm is done to the BS. Maybe even that they want the BS to be hurt. So no, I think that they would only see it as proof that somehow the BS was deficient. <hr></blockquote>My H either said or implied in so many words that he believed I was strong, and I would be fine. It didn't occur to him how devastating the A was - he still doesn't understand. He thinks I'll be just fine. So no, I don't think it occurs to them AT ALL what it does to us.To answer the question of this thread, I "scared" the OW. I called my H on the cell phone when he was at the hospital with OW. After they "broke up" the first time, he insisted on going with her to have a kidney stone removed.. "he was her only friend" (blecccccchhhhhh). After an hour past when he promised to call me, I called and ummmmm.... was very upset. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] she could hear me across the room [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Poor thing... this scared her.. She thought that surely I was a psycho wife that was going to sneak into her room and disconnect the life support or something.i also sent her a text msg on her cell phone one Sunday morning when I knew they went to church and lunch together that said "Please leave my husband alone". That didn't go over too well either. Moral? These things didn't help the situation - just fueled their fantasy fire that I was b*tchy and controlling. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by thinker:
 It is worse than a death of a family.<hr></blockquote>I agree wholeheartedly. Our son, Andrew passed away less than 5 months prior to my kicking H out of the house b/c of d-day. As much pain as I was in for my Andrew, I hurt 10 times more from my H's screwing around. Well, NOW I can put feelings on an internal scale towards both occurrences. At the time, I was just plain numb.Karen

And then we have to relive the pain all over again year after year after year. It will be a very long time till things are better...

I know the OM and avoid him at all costs so I don't hurt anyone and wind up behind bars. I could break him in half without trying, so I need to stay away.Instead, I just imagine him in a full body cast with a catheter, a full urine bag and no one around to help.Very satisfying!

To any BS out there who knows the OP is married and continuing to lie to their spouse, I say you definitely SHOULD tell their spouse of the affair. Think of the pain this person has caused. Don't you feel it's at least justified that they should go through it too? Don't you think their own turmoil will cause difficulty in your WS continuing the affair?I definitely think so - they are not to be a source of concern. I wish HE had a wife so I could bust it wide open, I would love to see if maybe HIS wife would shoot him or have him beaten. Or worse, maybe SHE would break his heart leaving him alone to suffer silently, agonizing over what SH**T he caused. I think it's crazy not to notify their SO. If - as in one post I read - if they threaten suicide if you tell - SO WHAT? That they are that pathetic in the first place tells you what emotional coersion they are capable of with your WS. Let them do it - tell them how! Sh**t, draw a diagram!! These people are to you as etch and sketch is to art - they are nothing. Hurt them by dosing their fantasy land with hard cold reality!!!!HUSBAND2U, very interesting question. Have there been any actual attempts at suicide? Have any BS or WS tried, or has anyone read about a SO that has experienced this? I know I have always been self sufficient and never thought I could sink to that - until this happened. During the first few days of this discovery I thought about killing myself all the time. It was on my list of a reasonable solution to ending the pain. Strange what the mind can rationalize in order to stop suffering.

Hi all, I don't post much lately, but my situation is somewhat unique, so I wanted to share. No, I never acted agressively towards OW, although I wanted to. As BurningBright said, I'm so much above her in every sense that I simply cannot degrade myself to her level. Only once I let myself react, well 15 months after H came home:I found her cell# at our home phone caller ID and I freaked out, she really crossed the line! Sent her SMS: "If you EVER again try to call here, I'll smash your ugly snout!" As I expected, she replied: "Go to hell where you belong!" Since D-day, when I confronted both H and OW, she was nasty and made it clear she has no intention to retreat. We all dream about bad things happen to OP. In my case, it really did: in Dec 2000, 10 months into EA/PA, OW was diagnosed stage 3 ovarian cancer (at the age of 31!), a year later she also lost her F who died of bone cancer only 3 months after diagnose. After 6 chemos and two surgeries, to my knowledge she's in remission now. Cosmic justice? I don't know, maybe, after all it's her 3rd PA with MM (she's single, never married). And each and every time she wanted to divorce those couples and marry MM. How do I feel about her illness? Well, at moments I think she deserves it, at moments I want to help, sometimes I say it's not my problem .... sometimes I just want her to die and end this nightmare. Otherwise, she will always be around, just that type of personality. After 7 months of separation, suicide attempt and 1 month of mental hospital, all caused by the A, H returned home 15 months ago, but since they work together and he refuses to cease contact with her, I can't tell we're in recovery. I harbour huge anger towards both of them - to OW, because she plays that "You can't leave me now" game to the hilt, to H because being a typical conflict avoider he's unable to draw the line, although he says he wants M, me and D, not her. I realised that I'm in fact capable of hating someone, and that's my punishment to the crime of wanting her to die (in my dreams). Me, the most tolerant and kind person I ever new... it hurts, but I can't make myself wanting her to heal. The best I can is tell myself it's not my problem.Adrian

The OW in my H life, didn't care about me, or the kids. I listened to tapes that my H taped of her voice mail messages to him. SICK isn't that! She says me, me, me, so many times. The OW doesn't care about the hurt of their spouse. They don't care about the emotional turmoil they have put forth to their spouse. The OW doesn't care about family at all. The Ow may have said to my H, I am sorry for your wife. It was not a truthful statement. More manipulation to my H about how honorable she was, and for my H to think she is still a highly respectful christian woman.Yes, I feel the same as you Adrian. Something drastic should happen to the OP. Who knows, maybe something will happen to my H for his lust, and not caring about his family here. The hurt will not go away totally. IF the WS is truthfully remorseful and feels guilty, they can help their spouse feel better about themselves, and the marriage. It can fade in time (but not totally) told by Steve Harley. If the WS shows concern, caring, thoughtfulness, love towards their spouse. In my case, I feel my WH didn't show the remorse or guilt. The way he talks to Steve about marriage and what is in-love and etc. The way he posts here on MB. My H basically didn't show these things, cause he doesn't want me as his wife. It is amazing how a WS can actually tell their spouse how ugly they are. The body language, the foul words they call you, but when they talk about the OP, the OP is so wonderful. To this day when my H and I talk about the OW, he can never say anything bad about her. He gives her the benefit of the doubt.This OW my H had, is living a life of sin. She wants to go back to her original life after the first affair. Her H knowing about her sex with a minister the first time. Now she wants to just put this affair with my H under the rug. It seems my H doesn't think any less of the OW with her coercing and manipulating me with her suicide. H knows she called and threatened me with suicide. When I was talking to a woman this last week, she said someone did the suicide attempt to her over horse boarding. After the 3rd time, she finally told the lady do you have life insurance? Is it paid up? She finally said, then make sure it is enough money for your H and child to live comfortably. The woman was shocked, and quit. If I had sense at the time the OW kept calling me, I wish I would of said something of that order to the OW. This would of shut her up, and let her stew in her anger, and manipulation. Then we would of proceeded with my H telling her H that she is an adulterer again. My H being the OM, should be suffering in some way too. The BS seem to get the worst out of all affairs, my WS doesn't see it that way, he thinks he is suffering. He doesn't feel the pain that has been pressed on me. They can say, but they really don't feel what we feel. Maybe he will read here a BS telling of her pain and the difference of the loss of her child and the pain of an affair. All WS look at her statement. Why doesn't a permanent big red A get burnt into their forehead. A warning that they screwed in their life, and if it has been more than 1, put a big A on their forehead for each affair. I wonder how the WS would feel?

Oh I had plenty of fantasies... but never acted on them. I confronted her on the phone very early in the A and of course she lied to me. I have never seen her in person. If I had encountered them together I have no idea what would have happened but it probably would have been ugly. I think many OP dramatically underestimate the rage and temporary insanity a betrayed spouse can feel. In the end I got the best revenge of all. I came out looking like a saint and she looked like a raving psycho. Plus My marraige is better than ever and we have 2 beautiful kids now. Nothing could make her madder than knowing that.
3 stories from my personal life experience: One of my friends came home and caught her H naked in bed with the town barfly who he had been rumored to be boinking (denied it to her of course). This friend was a totally nonviolent person. She said it was like she lost her mind. She jumped on the bed and started choking the OW. Hubby was so "madly in love" with the OW that he made no move to defend her, jumped up to put his pants on yelling "Baby I'm sorry, this is the only time it has happened." The OW got loose and my friend chased her out of the house naked onto the front lawn. She did then go back upstairs and throw the OW's cheesy neon orange tank dress out the window where she obviously retrieved it since it wasn't there the next day. #2 - A friend of my brother's actually bit the tip of her H's OW's finger off! My brother witnessed this. They were at a bar and the OW came in. She wasn't with the MM anymore, he had dumped her. Sh epurposely came there to harass the wife, it had happened several times. That night they ended up yelling at each other in the parkig lot surrounded by a bunch of people. The OW was flaunting a ring (nothing fancy) in the W's face and informing her that the H bought it for her. My brother said the W suddenly lunged at her, grabbed her hand and bit the tip of ther finger off. The W was arrested that night but the prosecutor dropped all the charges (I think because he realized there were so many witnesses to testify that the OW had been harassing the W for awhile). And the paramedics were unable to find the piece of the finger. #3 - A former roommate of mine was cheating on her boyfriend and brought some other guy home one night ( I was oblivious to this, I was in bed). Her BF showed up (he had a key, duh) at 3 am and found them in bed together. I was awakened by a bunch of yelling, crashing and banging. He literally dragged the OM throught the apt, down the hall, out the door and into the parking lot where he proceeded to beat him senseless. By the next evening my roomie (who was a total *itch) and her BF (who was actually a very nice guy) were cuddled up on the couch like nothing had happened.

Hmmm...I can tell you that my affair happened because of some pretty serious relationship issues. If my SO had been hung up over getting "revenge" on the OM I would have been like "are you more interested in yourself and stroking your male ego, or are you interested in US and what WE can do to heal this relationship together.Luckily he chose me and working towards healing over causing more pain and trouble. Luckily he chose OUR relationship over HIS ego...or I would have said "see ya!"Quit thinking about yourselves so much...it was probably thinking more of "you" than it was "the TWO of you (as in you and your spouse)" that got you to where you are now to begin with. More pain will solve nothing...because if you're just out for revenge than it's still all about you. If you think you're entitled to it, to being selfish, think again...

<<<Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
[QB]Luckily he chose me and working towards healing over causing more pain and trouble. Luckily he chose OUR relationship over HIS ego...or I would have said "see ya!">>>Most of us have bent over backwards to make our marriages work and never did a darn thing to the OP, even when the OP tried to make our lives a living hell (which many of us have experienced). But we do have feelings of anger and fantasies of revenge (which very few act on). It's human nature.<<<Quit thinking about yourselves so much...it was probably thinking more of "you" than it was "the TWO of you (as in you and your spouse)" that got you to where you are now to begin with.>>>Excuse me?!?! The only people responsible for the affair were the one who didn't have the self control to keep his/her pants up and the OP willing to hop into bed with a married person. The betrayed spouse has responsibility in the marital problems. The BS is not responsible for their spouse's choice to commit adultery. There are many BS who could easily have justified cheating because of the way their WS treated THEM, but they still didn't do it. <<<More pain will solve nothing...because if you're just out for revenge than it's still all about you. If you think you're entitled to it, to being selfish, think again...>>>Most BS will never seek revenge, but we are entitled to our feelings. I had plenty of those feelings. I never discussed them with my H. They were my own feelings and I had every right to have them. If the WS could be SELFISH enough to *uck someone else then we are certainly "entitled" to be selfish enough to have our own feelings that, unlike what the WS did, aren't going to hurt anyone else. We've swallowed our pride when others told us that we were crazy for taking back a cheater, we've had our self worth and self esteem bashed into the ground, our hearts shattered into a million pieces, our lives turned upside down. We are "entitled" to our feelings.[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by sad_n_lonely:
In my case had I been contacted and threatened in the same way, I would have responded that I understood his feelings, but that he does not own his w... I would have done him the courtesy of some insight into my understanding of the difficult place we all found ourself (if he asked), and I would have suggested he needs to work with his wife toward a resolution, and I need to work with my w for same, but that the nature of any contact between me and his w was up to her and I....<hr></blockquote>This all sounds like pretty good logic and may work well in a world where logic and theory reigns supreme, but in the REAL world of feelings and emotions, the world in which I live and work in on a daily basis, I think most men would have a serious problem with being lectured to by an OM. If your OW's husband ever does contact you, I don't think you really want to do this one, if you do, I hope for your wife's sake the life insurance premiums are up to date.[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: F A ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by veryhurtHarley:
To any BS out there who knows the OP is married and continuing to lie to their spouse, I say you definitely SHOULD tell their spouse of the affair. Think of the pain this person has caused. Don't you feel it's at least justified that they should go through it too? Don't you think their own turmoil will cause difficulty in your WS continuing the affair?<hr></blockquote>I contacted the OM's wife, and I admit that it was out of revenge, rightly or wrongly,I wanted him to feel at least some of the pain that I was feeling. One of the unexpected results of my making contact with the OM's wife was that after the OM became upset about having his cover blown, he said things that let confirmed to my W that he was in it for some sex on the side. Up until he called to tell me how "disgusting" it was that I told his W about his actions, my W was convinced that this man loved her deeply. The things that he said about her, woke her up much more quickly than anything that I could ever had said or done. Her initial reaction was to defend his actions and make excuses for the the things that he had said, but after a couple of days of simmering, reality hit home like a ton of bricks, she had been used.

[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]

Informing the other betrayed spouse about the affair:I did not inform the other spouse myself. I witnessed my WH confess their affair to the OW's husband. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] THAT was the only way I agreed to work on the marriage after D-day. It accomplished several things:1. It exposed any future contact between lovers to increased scrutiny.2. It demonstrated WH's priorities, choosing our marriage over the affair relationship.3. It protected the other spouse from further humiliation, and he terminated a 40-year friendship with my WH.4. It drove a wedge between lovers. She was furious my WH exposed her adultery to her husband.5. The other couple began to work on their marital problems without the affair interference.6. It enabled my WH to begin his grieving without a long, drawn out fog.7. It was step one of a reconciliation process between WH and his God.8. I began to see WH as more courageous, and less of a coward.9. It was a victory for truth and justice .... in my eyes!Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by veryhurtHarley:
To any BS out there who knows the OP is married and continuing to lie to their spouse, I say you definitely SHOULD tell their spouse of the affair. Think of the pain this person has caused. Don't you feel it's at least justified that they should go through it too? Don't you think their own turmoil will cause difficulty in your WS continuing the affair?<hr></blockquote>I never said a word to OMw. At first I used it as a deterrent. My W was so adamant about me not telling, because they had a young daughter and W couldn’t live with be known as the reason that child’s parents split up. (I know fine time to think of that) So I used it, I told my W if found continued contact I would call her. I’m sure that got back to him as he all but vanished after D-Day. I did call his home office one night and leave a message that HE should tell her because I was going to and it would sound better coming from him. But honestly I don’t know if he ever did. Too this day I wish I had called her. But in all honesty it would only be to hurt him. Now that it has been so long I feel like I would have to apologize to her for not speaking up sooner. You see OM was only engaged at the time of the A. He married this poor girl 2 months after D-Day. Also for some WARPED reason I feel like the hell she would then be living, would in part be caused by me.ozp.s. Pepperband, your my new hero, I wish I could have thought that clearly in the begining.[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]

Pepper, I think that you had a great idea. I honestly think that if I had tried that with my wife, she would have walked away from our marriage before going to the OM's wife. When I first found out about the identity of the OM, I threatened to tell the wife and she packed her bags but never left. After I told the wife, my W stated that I was being spiteful and mean spirited, to which I agreed with her, but only after pointing out that her calling me these things was like the pot calling the kettle black. She was so angry that I had hurt her wonderful OM, that she stated that she was leaving me after she found a place to live, again, she never left. But in all honesty, if she had left me because I wanted her to tell the OM's wife, or because I did, I would have taken it as she choosing him over me, and I really don't think I would have wanted to be with her anyway at that point.

fa, I understand ya about real life, and if it came to that, I was prepared to go the distance with him, that's the way guys work (well most of us), but would be a shame for someone to die over such things....nor is that kind of violence necessary, or justified under those circumstances..[ March 04, 2002: Message edited by: sad_n_lonely ]

For me, my feelings towards the OW are affected by my two telephone contacts with her. After D-day, I called her and I told her that I loved my husband, there had been problems in my marriage and that my three children would be devastated if their family was destroyed. She replied "I think this could be a grand love and I can't give it up" but agreed to leave my husband alone to decide what he wanted to do. This was followed by a telephone message offering to s*** my husband's c*** and then she f***ed him 3 times when he went to her city to break it off.
It was funny, I had a few telephone conversations with her H and she didn't like it one bit when I started calling him.

When I first found out about my husbands affair last year I was very tempted to contact OW -she was single- but sat on my hands and resisted. H said if I had contacted her he would have left me then. Instead he left three months later and at the time there didn't seem to be any one else. Since then he has started seeing another woman who is single. I don't know how to contact her but anyway its my husband who is the problem. That said I wonder sometimes how she feels about me. H. comes twice a week and often spends time with me. I'm not sure if he hides it from her but I send letters, cards, e.mails and text messages to him so in her eyes I'm probably the OW>!!
Jante

I never hurt the ow but I am sure if the opportunity, to come face to face with her I would have. Especially my state of mind at the time. I even thought about waiting and running he down with my car. Or hiring a hit man. But alas, I didn't because I felt I would be caught. And, then my children would have to pay. Whenever, I heard of a fatal accident or shooting I was hoping that she was the dead victim. I know that's not nice, but that is how I felt. It's amazing what affairs will do to a BS.I didn't choose my H to become a victim, because I loved him and wanted him back. If he were dead that wouldn't be possible.Funny how this thread upset Clarkie and got his panties in a wad. I guess this behaviour and feeling felt by the BS could be called 'Fatal Reaction'. It certainly is understandable.

"clarkies panties in a wad"????Nah, merely SOAKED! God ya'll make me WET! BEAT ME, RUN OVER ME, SOAK ME IN ACID! whatever floats yer boat! SEE, I just don't get it. I never really blamed the my exW's OM. Was it that I didnt have a computer? Was I selfish? Or was it that he was someone I did not know, and SHE was my wife, the one that was SUPPOSED to be comitted to ME? Sorry, I guess I'm just more posessive of those that make vows and promises to me, than I am wanting to strike out at those who were mere "opportunists". pointing out I've been BS and OP now....who knows, maybe I'll be a WS before I croak. (ugh)hugs, c

How's this? If infidelity were a crime punishable by the BS, if we could exact the revenge we wanted and it was condoned by law, well in that case wouldn't cases of infidelity be alot less prevalent in the world? Sometimes I think that this type of thing happens alot because it can - - - because our society does nothing to prevent it and there are no real consequences of having done it. If I had a bad marriage and sought the attention of another woman I would sure as hell be less likely to act out that fantasy if the consequenses were my throat being cut by some biker my wife may know. Whatta y'all think of that?

Well if violent acts against the OP were condone by law, then I guess quite a few BS would take advantage of them.I don't agree that if OP was severly punished by societies around the world that it would stop infidelity. Just look at the nations that have the death penalty and you'll see that it has not been much of a deterrent in preventing future murders.But assume for a minute that one was capable of carrying out vengeance against OP. Most of the time it would be in a fit of uncontrollable anger. But once the 'fog' of said anger passed, the people with a conscience would realized that they are now murderers. Even if the laws of man did not punish the murder of an OP, the conscience of a normally good person would be so heavy with the deed that in time it could lead to the total destruction of that person. We are told that infidelity is like and addiction, well I would also say that murder is an addiction.Joe

Yes i did confront one of wife's OM, and yes i
beat the **** out of him in front of his wife,my
wife,and all of our mutual friends for his part in
my wife's A. I found it relieved alot of stress for me. Incidentally his wife is divorcing him,
and he has the nerve to blame me.(roflmao) Im not saying its for everyone but it did wonders for me. hope this helps. Rusty
[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Harley,
Forgot to mention that i was arrested,
stood trial on aggrivated assault (premeditated).
Also intent to do grievous bodily harm. he won't
be able to walk without cane for long time as i
broke his leg in 3 or 4 places. Charges were dropped due to temporary insanity. So if you really want to release those demons from inside yourself all i can say is don't let
it go as far as i did. Rusty
PS. it was actually extreme emotional and mental duress, not temp insanity although lawyer said that might have worked as well [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img][ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: hrtng4lngtimenow ]

With respect to the question about suicides by the betrayed spouses, there have been two BS's from this board in the last few years who have died in single car accidents - and in many cases, single car accidents are disguised suicides.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
Quit thinking about yourselves so much...it was probably thinking more of "you" than it was "the TWO of you (as in you and your spouse)" that got you to where you are now to begin with. More pain will solve nothing...<hr></blockquote>I missed this the first time around, but you gotta be kidding [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] While two wrongs definitely don't make a right, having an affair is the ultimate thinking of only one's self. And while it does take two to contribute to a poor marriage, to blame the BS for the WS' affair is ludicrous [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

An affair is a symptom of a bad marriage, not a cause...perhaps if the marriage had not been bad, then the affair would have never happened? That's what I meant...do you REALLY see how you contributed to the situation? Of course the affair was her decision...and she was intimidated and coerced accordingly for DARING to act on her own, right?My, my, what a quick temper...[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]

Some countries do punish adultry my death... both of the WS and the OP. These are mostly, if not all, Muslim countries. It does at least prevent repeat affairs I suppose.The other affair prevention they use is to lock the women up in their homes. So in those countries insest is more normal then affairs.It also prevents affairs.

I'm sorry - I havent' read all the posts yet, but I plan to. So if I am posting something that is irrelevant to the later posts, I appologize.My W's OM is also a predator. He has been married no fewer than three times each ending because of an A. The lies he told my W are so incredible that I wonder how my W ever believed them.Knowing this man's history and all of the techniques he used to seduce my W has filled me with an anger that I never knew was possible. Yes, I have fantasized about hurting this OM - physically, emotionaly, through work, etc. But this is truly not me - I am not that kind of person and I resent this person for bringing these feelings out in me.The truth is, I was going back over all of the information I have on this OM and something happened inside me. I started to become less angry. I started to realize that this OM is a pathetic human being who will never find true happiness. I also realized that he has a pattern that will likely never change, and that someday he will do this to the wrong man's wife - one that will do something about it. And I actually found comfort in this.Now its time for me to go back and read the rest of the posts and maybe add additional comments if appropriate.

Towards the Future,Your past posts border on ridiculous. Let me get this straight, you had an affair - you are a WS right? How can I or anyone else be selfish to be suffering the worst pain and torment of our lives? How is it about restoring my ego to have been victimized and want justice? You have to be kidding. My wife's first affair was not because of any marriage failure at all - we were completely happy - she will tell you this. The second affair was much worse, and yes I admit that my job requirement left her with unmet emotional needs, but it was not an appropriate response to have had an affair.Furthermore, if I don't get my needs met I do not make a decision to cause incredible pain and maybe even destroy the lives of those I love - WS's do - my wife did, you did. U took the path of a coward because instead of trying to work out your marital issues, you ran to someone else - making a bad situation 10 000 times worse. This pain and torment in my heart and mind now is because she was selfish and cruel - and it will go on and on and on. How am I thinking about myself too much when I can't stop seeing her and him together in my mind? That comment was uncalled for. What your post says to me is that you have NO IDEA what BS's go through but by reading this thread you should understand the enormity of disaster WS's can reap in the world by THEIR selfishness and pathological lying. BTW, if I was reading your post right, you say YOU would have been out the door if your SO reacted badly to the extraordinary stress YOU gave him. You need a reality check TTF.People that have problems in relationships solve the problems - they don't run to someone else. Ther is NO justification for what my wife did, NONE - and there is PLENTY justification for BS's hurting someone right back. That's not an ego trip it's nature; i.e. if u kick a dog too hard he will bite back.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Nellie1:
With respect to the question about suicides by the betrayed spouses, there have been two BS's from this board in the last few years who have died in single car accidents - and in many cases, single car accidents are disguised suicides.<hr></blockquote>I agree with this statement, Nellie!!This whole thread is an exercise in "letting off some steam"... I met OW#2 face-to-face, and have to say that it was icky. I wanted to smack her, but didn't. I wish I would have. I went to meet OW#5, but chickened out. My (then)H wanted her instead of me, and I knew I'd just look like a pathetic fool, so I left her alone. She was afraid of me though, and that was fine.OF COURSE the person I should have been maddest at was my (then)H. DUH! He's the one who broke the VOWS, not his skanky OW's. But I was ALSO mad at the OW's (plural) who KNEW that he was married and hung on to him anyhow. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I have no idea about OW #1-4, but I know for a fact that OW#5 is bar-hopping and miserable because she expected to marry my ex-H when the divorce became final. Oh, too bad so sad, he DIDN'T LOVE HER. Whoops! Now they're both alone. And that IS sad, since a bunch of lives were ruined to get there.I once got in a BIG ARGUMENT on these boards because someone (a BS - woman) said she'd feed a chunk of meat to the OW and stand a foot in front of her and watch her choke to death without helping. I was HORRIFIED! But ya know, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's NORMAL to want to harm the person who harmed (or killed) your marriage. It doesn't mean we DO IT.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: F A ]

Being a WS, you must realize that I have a BS in my life. Myself and our therapist are all VERY familiar with what he's gone through...what we've both gone through. That being considered, I know what a healthy BS recovery is supposed to look like, and what it's supposed to at least partially consist of. At some point, you have to begin to let go of your hurt and anger and work on recovering your marriage. That's my main point in all of this...all of this venting and whining will amount to nothing, provide no insight or help, and get nothing done.It's very important to keep goals in mind, to think about our actions and what we want to ultimately accomplish, and whether our actions will lead us closer to that goal or push us farther away from it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
But ya know, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it's NORMAL to want to harm the person who harmed (or killed) your marriage. It doesn't mean we DO IT.<hr></blockquote>Sheryl,I would imagine that most of the anger on these boards, while justified, is directed towards those OP's who have no remorse and blame the affair on the WS. That is infuriating to see some sick [censored] glory in the destruction of your life and family and gloat about how you deserved it because your marriage wasn't perfect.My situation is quite different and I am actually grateful to the OW in my case for the decent and honorable way she acted when I contacted her. She had been told by my H that we were getting a divorce. When she found out that was a lie, she sent my H a scathing email ending all contact. She then told me how sorry she was and gave me all the details of the affair. I will be forever grateful to her for being so decent about it. I know I am very fortunate.

Oh yes, ML, I would suspect that a remorseful OP would make a HUGE difference.Although, in honesty, the OW I faced was... um... well, I guess "nice" would fit... and I still wanted to punch her in the face -- but I DIDN'T.She said things like, "He loves us both"... all the while holding her BIG BIBLE. Puke!So, yes, I'm happy that your OW was remorseful. I will also touch upon the fact that I was once an OW, and I was very, VERY remorseful when the SO of the OM IM'd me... I apologized profusely. I still don't expect her to be thankful to me... and I was AFRAID of her also. I will NEVER be able to face this woman EVER. That's the price I paid for being a WS. It sux, but it IS the price. Oh well, shoulda thought about THAT before I got involved with HER MAN, eh? Infidelity is UGLY.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
.....At some point, you have to begin to let go of your hurt and anger and work on recovering your marriage......It's very important to keep goals in mind, to think about our actions and what we want to ultimately accomplish, and whether our actions will lead us closer to that goal or push us farther away from it.<hr></blockquote>I must say that if your previous posts had the tone of this post, I doubt very seriously if you would have received any backlash. In most of your previous posts, intentionally or unintentionally, you seemed to place the blame of the affair on the BS, and that is what I believe infuriated most of the people here, or at least me. At least with this post, I must agree with you.[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: F A ]

I don't hate the OW for her actions when my H and her were carrying on the affair prior to Dday. After all, who the hell knows what he was telling her? They could fantasize anything, particularly my H, who was telling himself that I wouldn't really care that the marriage was over.
I hate her because of my two telephone conversations with her. I hate her because I made it clear that my 3 children would be irrevocably damaged by a divorce. And she continued to try to suck my husband into her web. When you lie to me,(telling me you will back off and let my H figure things out, and then continuing contact) it's personal. And when you try to hurt my children, I am like a mother grizzly bear.
Not to mention that she has never shown a shred of remorse.

I also had angry, hurtful feelings towards the OW in my H's affair. I knew her she was one of his students. The night that my H finally came clean after months of my trying to drag it out of him, I was so angry at her that I got out the phone book and called her home at 5:00am. Her mother answered the phone, she still lived at home. I then told her mother what had been going on and that my H had confessed everything. The next day I checked my H's cell phone and found out that she had called him after I had found out. I hit redial and she answered the phone. I let her have it. We talked for almost an hour. SHe told me what my H had been telling her several lies about our relationship. That angered me even more but I was happy to inform her that it was not true. She was angry at my H. I know for a few months she continued to contact my H on his cell phone. I finally put a stop to hit by telling him that if I found out he was still in contact with her that I would pack his things for him. I know that this is a big LB but I had enough. I was ready for plan B if he continued contact. I still felt great anger towards this young girl becasue she knew me knew our son and did not care that she was hurting us. She even came to see him right in front of me. My H's occupation is a public one but I still knew something was going on and he continued to deny it for months to he confessed.I thought I would never get over my anger towards her until 2 weeks ago. I was out having dinner with some girlfriends of mine. My H's was at home with our son doing some needed father son bonding. When OW walks into the resturant with her new boyfriend. I have to admit it was a shock to see her I had not seen her since dday. But I was not tempted to do anything. She was visanly shaken by the fact that I was there and almost left. She and her date however stayed.She ate her dinner and quickly left. I didn't have the desire to even speak to her My H is at home with me and his son. He was the adult in the affair and just as responsible as she was. I have over the last few months lost my anger towards both of them. I love my H and I am glad that we have this chance to imporve our marriage. In my way of thinking I am the winner not because I got him and she didn't but because I know have the love of my H. We still have problems but I know knew she is no longer one of them.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by hrtng4lngtimenow:
Yes i did confront one of wife's OM, and yes i
beat the **** out of him in front of his wife,my
wife,and all of our mutual friends for his part in
my wife's A. I found it relieved alot of stress for me. Incidentally his wife is divorcing him,
and he has the nerve to blame me.(roflmao)
<hr></blockquote>
Rusty, I'm not judging you for what you did here because as a betrayed husband I can understand the rage that takes place when you first discover an affair.I'm just kind of using this as an example of some of the other posts I've seen here. We all have a tendency to direct our furry at the other person - in some cases we transfer the anger that we should feel for our own spouses (who, by the way, did say "yes") to them. For some, that can be a way to release some of the pain. But keep in mind, your spouse, just like mine, said "yes!" I'm equally mad at her, at him, and at me for not being as good of a husband as I should have been.I know all situations are not like this. In Rusty's case (and in mine), the OM was married. This technically means that his wife (and my wife) is an "other woman" to the OM's wife. I don't know about him, but I certainly wouldn't have wanted the OM's wife to come over and beat the **** out of my wife for having an affair with her husband.Something to think about...-HD

New Beginning - I am the BS and my WH posts here quite a bit. My WH's OW was suppose to be a christian too. Holding her bible high over her head, she exposed her body to my WH willingly. This is the Christian OW's 2nd sexual affair. The first was a minister of her church, she did it with him in Gods home in a back room. She didn't want to go out to dinner with my WH, when he was in her state visiting his ill dad. She wanted to go to a hotel instead. My WH to this day says he didn't realize that there would be sex. I wasn't born yesterday. The OW in his life, threatened me with suicide if my WH and I were to tell her poor BS husband. Afterall this is her 2nd physical affair, what the heck is he going to think. What about all those people in church that think this lady is so christian, teaches bible study, interacts with the people of the church. If I could, I would love to get a big billboard on the highway, and put her name on it with a BIG RED PHYSICAL AFFAIR x '2'. Only her H knows about the first affair. Her grown children don't know and now she is helping take care of her two little granddaughters. What will they think of grandma, you had sex with other men? There is this want to hurt her so bad, that her face can't be seen anywhere without these 2 big Red 'A' Tattoos on her forhead. But she has to live with herself, and I know God is making it hard for her to live. Especially she was so adamant on not telling her H.

Yes, hurting the OP is probably a natural response. I too have had some pretty wild ideas about what I should do to OM_SOB. But, it really isnt our place to pass judgement on them, there is a far better power more capable than us to do that!We should not focus on the OP so much as focusing on ourselves. Focusing on the OP is really a waste of time and energy that can be better used achieving more positive results. Why risk losing everything (ie family, job, freedom) fro a few brief moments of lustful pleasure, after all, isnt that what most A's are about anyway.Besides, I would rather pain a huge scarlett letter 'A' on thier house, its more permanent and sure would get the neighborhood talking!

originally by loveherstill
Why risk losing everything (ie family, job, freedom) fro a few brief moments of lustful pleasure, after all, isnt that what most A's are about anyway.Excellent point. Really makes me think. Something I will keep close - thanks.

I don't suppose this is probably a good thread for me to say anything in, is it?But, I'm going to say a few things, anyway. First of all (and I guess this is obvious) not every OW is a skanky whoring so-and-so who needs her hair ripped out and her face slapped. I'm not defending indenfensible actions, however, there are incidents such as mine where I was led to believe a very different thing, and only now as the relationship has progressed passed the point where divorce is even being discussed anymore (yes, he initiated the relationship and he said he was leaving the W), am I trying to figure out what to do about this mess. I really did think he was going to leave his wife - it seemed possible, and he swears it still is - after all, I was dating someone when I left my husband (ex-H was abusive), and I left as I said I would. But, now I think he's lying to me AND to his wife. Liar though he is, I still love him, which makes it difficult to give up on this, but after reading this thread, it occurs to me that she probably loves him too... maybe enough to kill me over it, if she had a suburban. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe I should leave him for my own personal safety! I'm not sure that I'm joking!I always thought I was pretty sensitive to the wife, even though he never had a nice word to say about her, being a mother and ex-wife myself and (I thought) a fairly conscientious human being. But, this thread opens up a whole other side of this relationship that I was simply blind to. I never really pictured this kind of anger - which honestly terrifies me - but, more importantly, the deep hurt that it points to. I just discovered this board today and it has been exceedingly enlightening.I've been through plenty of hurt myself in this relationship as I've come to the slow but steady discovery that he is not going to leave his wife, he didn't mean it when he said he wanted a future with me (outside of more of this affair), and I'm not much more than a pleasant hiding place for him from his real life, despite his constant declarations to the contrary. But, I picture his wife writing some of these posts about the hatred, the anger, the feeling of betrayal, and I'm stunned. I wonder at myself - what have I done?I'm not sure that I regret loving him. I think maybe I do, because it has changed me dramatically into someone I'm not sure I like anymore. But, even if that's so, I feel incredibly bad for the W as I read through these posts. I'm not sure if it is appropriate, and I'm sure it isn't representative of all OP, but for what it's worth, I am so sorry. I feel like I should say this to his W, but I don't think she knows and I think she might just be better off if she never knew and I just ended things with her WS, who has been acting rather erratic and obnoxiously selfish lately, anyway.Or maybe I should send her a voodoo doll of me and hope for a mercifully quick thrust of the pin through center mass, n'est pas?Yikes.Okay, I'm going to go back to my corner now. Hope I haven't ruined anyone's day.

well that is a start, IMO unless one is a predator (and maybe your mm is, too bad for his wife though),one should fairly quickly realize a friendship that goes too far (and turns into an afair) has to end. Partly for the reasons you just mentioned, but also because humans cannot maintain 2 intimate relationships (IMO), and that should become clear. At that point there is only 2 courses of healthy action, leave the marriage immediately (usually because it was abusive, and the ws decides they are done)...or stop the affair, return to the marriage, tell the truth, face the dysfunctional marriage, and work through with spouse to reconcilliation or divorce. One cannot change the past, but facing the music is how humans right wrongs, taking responsibility, being accountable, and crafting fair outcomes.... Some like to brand a ws as some sort of evil forever soiled individual, that is their problem, and says more about the bs than the ws (although the ws may indeed be a serious loser, but so may the bs). Bs and ws are injured by an affair, and the healing is facing the music, not pre-decideing the outcome. In your case the mm is revealed as a predator, he seeks you for his benefit, not cause it is a um.... actual friendship (where all real relationships must start IMO). This is no reflection on you (except your judgement) just learn from this (about you), and move on...and do not date any more MM...and make sure they aren't married.

My husband wanted to beat OM's face in sooooo bad. He kept telling me he was gonna need some face reconstruction, and that I would need to expect to have to bail him out of jail. He finally calmed down, and realized it would do no good. He talked like that for about 2 weeks. I told OM, because I feared for his safety, he was so scared, he moved to another city. Glad that part is over with...

OW that posted above and sd an I'm sorry, glad to hear you care... I know my ow did not... and as of the latest confession... found out she told my H... "she was sorry she could not be stepmother to my children" give me a break... "his children" whatever... what a ho... I raised these kids from conception carried them, etc... and some ho stesps in and wants to be their fing stepmother... no than k you miss.. just because my H has a screw lose you do not get to ruin my kids lives with your hoing ways... I am so sick over this comment... but it shows the ho in her.... I am wishing I had a suburban... if I saw her walking down the road... but I think my volvo could do the trick [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] - I know she deserves it, but she will get hers... My anger is so thick, and it gotten expressed a bit , thank and praise the lord... or it would be eating me up even more... I try so hard to let it go... but when a drunken barfly wants to be stepmom, and she knows nothing about kids... except fing my H... I just don't get it.thanks, H

My wanted/wants to hurt the OM in the worst way. And I completely understand. Upon finding out about my A, the next morning he sent a couple of threatening emails, and left a couple of threatening phone messages, telling him that if he ever set foot in our town ever again he would not leave alive. I don't think that he (my H) will ever get over that feeling. He has also threatened every person that knew about the affair also. I don't think he would really do anything illegal at this point, but initially, I wouldn't have put it past him.
1step

for get it....[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]

Hey 1step, you're d-day is close to mine and I also ended contact with OM and set about fixing my marriage. I have truly enjoyed being able to look my family in the eye and know I'm not betraying them. The guilt and sneaking around was too much for me to take any longer. I was losing alot of weight, and felt very out of control.