Guess Who's Chattin' Bout Us? Glory B! - Marriage Builders® Forums

You know, I had a bad enough day, earlier, before things got really horrible I thought I'd just go to that gloryb.com and see what goes on in OW/M's head. Just to see if maybe they feel bad or something. I don't know.Evidently we, I, have offended them. The post we have going here wondering if anyone ever hurt OP, well we are being discussed. Me, the nice gal I am had to step in and say - hey kids, just a big fat vent, chill. They aren't interested. I registered here in Sept 2000, and have been back round with a vengance lately cause times are tough. I think the people here are a wonderful support, and full of all kinds of ideas and experienced. This kind of stuff is so HS and bull sh. I have made a point of going out of my way to answer posts from OW who wander over here, and now I am actually angry at the responses there. I really try and be good. Vengance is mine says and all that stuff. But, you know, who do these people think they are. I understand that some don't know the guy is married - but once you find out. DUH. GRRRRRRRR.Elizabeth

I have been posting over at TOW, I have been getting kindness and understanding. A different view. I know there is some natural grudgery going on, but we all (both panels) have to understand that we are all humans with feelings. At one point or another we have all done something bad or sinned, and we are all accountable. Because bad judgement is used doesn't make someone a bad person. Just their actions. I hope I didn't offend anyone here. But sometimes I believe that we have a fog of our own, My H is in a fog, that is why he does this, the OP is in a fog, or is devious, but I found that I may have my own fog, my H chose to start this affair and to walk deeper in the fog...I think our fog is sometimes forgetting that. Please don't get angry, I just see so much pain on both sides.

The difference between the pain of the OP and BS is the OP CHOSE to get involved with a married person. So they have no one to blame but themselves for their pain. The BS pain on the other hand, had no choice in the matter. The OP have to take responsibility for their actions and put the blame for their pain squarely where it belongs on their shoulders!

I don't know how you can go and read there. It breaks my heart to see such a degradation of humanity there. It's a celebration of evil and destruction incurred against innocent people. Such an absolute dearth of simple common decency and sanity. I don't even feel angry or mad at them, I feel so heartbroken that there are such horribly lost people in the world. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Faith-n-Hope:
But sometimes I believe that we have a fog of our own, My H is in a fog, that is why he does this, the OP is in a fog, or is devious, but I found that I may have my own fog, my H chose to start this affair and to walk deeper in the fog...I think our fog is sometimes forgetting that. <hr></blockquote>I do not understand. BS's fog is forgetting that WS chose to start the affair and walk deeper into the fog? Is that what you are saying?I see fog as a condition involving several of the following: self-delusion, ignoring reality, rewriting history, being totally self-centered at other people's expense, maniplating for personal gain, lying, and other nasty traits.Thanks for the clarification.
Estes

MelodyLane-
I disagree with you. If it weren't for gloryb, I would still be in my affair. I was the OW, and gloryb helped me to get out of the affair.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Shannon1:
MelodyLane-
I disagree with you. If it weren't for gloryb, I would still be in my affair. I was the OW, and gloryb helped me to get out of the affair.<hr></blockquote>Shannon, that is good to hear that something good came out of something so bad, however, it doesn't change what I saw over there.

Hi Shannon! See we can agree from time to time! Sorry if my post pissed anyone off... But as moderator over there, I don't allow threads that incite violence or bathing someone in acid. I know folks are hurting on both boards, none of this is pleasant for either the OP or the BS, but this "fantasizing" or whatever about doing awful things to the OP, is misplaced. You shouldnt do it to the WS either, if you feel that way toward anyone, you should say kiss my [censored], and get on with your life, period. stop. Toss the plan a, b, stuff. hugs, c(jm2c)

I wonder why the resentment is aimed at the other person. Why don't we all take a good look at ourselves and the lying, cheating person we are married to before we make excuses for their behavior.Plan A and B should include facing our true selves and the reality of our lives and our other halves and not focusing on the vindictive ways to hurt another. It is our other half who is the one to put the blame on and then ourselves.You know, the one who betrayed us and who we so lovingly take back into our beds.The reality of it all takes some time. When it is faced only then we will see them for what they are.
My first and only post.

Oh Clarkie,There you go again being hypocritical. Let me explain:You said, "as moderator over there, I don't allow threads that incite violence or bathing someone in acid," but by posting this link, you are doing what you don't allow. YOU ARE posting a thread about violence.Please excuse us for not taking marital advice from someone who has never receive legitimate therapy...considering you had an affair with a married therapist. If you really want to expand your horizons, then do some research on the healing affects of dark humor.You might also want to study the stages of grief. I hope that one day you all open your eyes over there and stop hurting innocent people with your double standards and secret lives.I hope that one day you all stop making excuses for what you have done. You were wrong to have an affair...it didn't just happen. You made a choice...a very bad choice. The pain that you all feel is self inflicted and for that I am sorry.Kira

"..considering you had an affair with a married therapist." OK, I don't get this....if anyone does, please fill me in.hugs, c

<blockquote>quote:<hr>I hope that one day you all stop making excuses for what you have done. You were wrong to have an affair...it didn't just happen. You made a choice...a very bad choice. The pain that you all feel is self inflicted and for that I am sorry. <hr></blockquote>This is true, I spoke with the latest new friend of my X this morning. OK, we are divorced. She knows this. She still took it upon herself to call me and let me know that their little fling began before it was decided the marriage was over. Or at least I hadn't been notified yet, and considering I was the one that initiated the divorce...Evidently she wanted to let me know what I did wrong. I appreciate constructive criticisim, but know what ... it was mostly lies fed to her by you know who. I guess they seem to think I abandoned him in his hour of need. But, I'm confused. Wasn't I the wife that found out her husband was continuing an affair he promised had ended and then he had that bad accident. I was the one that stayed vigil till he was off life support. The doctors say that the only reason he walks now is because of the support I have given him. He was having seizures (partial complex not grand mal), I noticed, called the doc and arranged for a neurologist specializing in epilepsy to treat him. My family gave us a home to live in, his family called a few times. I drive him to appointments did pt at home with him a couple times a day. And still, she thinks I didn't stick by him. Well you know what, I hope that all these people get what they deserve, and am not ashamed to admit it. I have an 8 year old son who is in therapy 2x a week because he just is having a hard time understanding why daddy can't love all of us at the same time.I have a little girl who will be 4 this Friday. She will never remember what it was like to live with her mom and dad and brother as a family. I didn't do this. I had no part in this one. I took him back time after time, helped him get treatment and counseling, heald his hand and told him everything will be allright. Yeah, I know he is an A#1 Jerk. I know he lies to these women. But come on, be realistic. Don't even try to tell me that these people don't know better. Don't sell yourselves short. You know just what you are doing when you get in bed with someone's wife or husband. And from what I have read on gloryb some of these people think it is funny and take no responsibility - someone there said why do they blame us, it is the husband's [censored] they should be kicking. I could go on for hours. I am hurt, I am betrayed, life as I knew it and had planned for it is over. But you know what Chuckie, I just can't seem to instantly be able to tell him to kiss my [censored]. He was my husband, we have 2 young children, we made vows to each other in front of God, our church and friends and family. I don't remember those vows saying until I think she naggs too much, or I hate the way she irons my shirts but will never tell her because I hate to hurt her feelings; instead I'll just go **** someone else. I am not being pious, in fact I go to bed every night wondering -
WHAT IS SO BAD ABOUT ME? WHY CAN'T HE LOVE ME? WHAT DID I DO WRONG?I needed him so much, he needs me still, how come I continue to take care of him? Why doesn't his girlfriend? She doesn't want to. How can I explain to my children that I decided to stop taking care of their father so now he has to live in a nursing home? This all sucks. I didn't choose this. She did. Each and every one of those women knew he was married.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by clarkie:
Hi Shannon! See we can agree from time to time! Sorry if my post pissed anyone off... But as moderator over there, I don't allow threads that incite violence or bathing someone in acid. I know folks are hurting on both boards, none of this is pleasant for either the OP or the BS, but this "fantasizing" or whatever about doing awful things to the OP, is misplaced. You shouldnt do it to the WS either, if you feel that way toward anyone, you should say kiss my [censored], and get on with your life, period. stop. Toss the plan a, b, stuff. hugs, c(jm2c)<hr></blockquote>I beleive you were referring to my abominable fantasies that I contemplated for the OM and my xW after all the vile things they did not only to me but to my children as well.Fortunately I belong to the vast majority of BS that beleive that violence against another human beign is wrong,wrong,wrong. I even mentioned that when I even think about them I have to go throw up.But you've got to remember that there are people out there that are one traumatizing experience away from going off the deep end and actually carrying out equally horrible fantasies on the people that have hurt them. They are in the news on a daily basis.Just as the BS would be responsable for violent actions committed against the WS and OP, the latter are also responsable for creating the environment where tragedies can occur. And encouraging WS and OP to continue with their betrayal is contributing to said environment.Joe

OK, someone please clue me in. Where is this glory b site? Not sure I want to go there but I am sort of drawn to it like a bad car wreck.

LOL...don't bother trying to talk any sense. Somehow people here think it's OK to fantasize about hurting other people. I think it's totally sick to get off on the thought of causing physical harm to anyone. Even in wartime, violence happens (ideally) because it's necessary, not because of sick, deluded fantasies.I have to say that this board seeme to be going downhill lately. What the hell do you think you people are accomplishing by coming here and wallowing in these sick revenge fantasies, or by debating whether to get physical and intimidating with your spouses? Is this helping to heal your relationship, or you? I don't think so...

Longing-
The gapers delay can be found at www.gloryb.com
I don't reccomend it. It will only confirm what you already know.
Elizabeth

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
LOL...don't bother trying to talk any sense. Somehow people here think it's OK to fantasize about hurting other people. I think it's totally sick to get off on the thought of causing physical harm to anyone. ..<hr></blockquote>Actually, it's not sick to fantasize and joke about doing harm to someone who has done great harm to you, it's very healthy. It's very healthy to release steam by fantasizing and joking about hurting someone who has helped destroy life as you know it. TO NOT have such thoughts about such a vile person would be very unhealthy.What *IS* sick and evil, however, is to cause ACTUAL [not fantasies, not jokes] harm and destruction to one's family by having an affair with a married person.I don't know about you, but I would much rather have someone tell jokes about me behind my back than have someone have an affair with my husband. But..........that is just silly ole me. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by clarkie:
 I know folks are hurting on both boards, none of this is pleasant for either the OP or the BS, but this "fantasizing" or whatever about doing awful things to the OP, is misplaced. You shouldnt do it to the WS either, if you feel that way toward anyone, you should say kiss my [censored], and get on with your life, period. stop. Toss the plan a, b, stuff. hugs, c(jm2c)<hr></blockquote> Oh please. This would be great in the magical fantasyland where we can all turn off our feelings. So what if the BS has had fantasies about doing bad things to the OP and so what if they vent about it here? We have every right. It's only human, especially with the way that MANY of us here have been treated by the OP. Fantasizing about doing those things was a great outlet for my feelings, without hurting anyone. It's an outlet. I never did a thing to her or said much of anything to her. However I heard from her "I kept praying you'd have a miscarriage - I wish you were dead - If I'm going down I'm taking you with me - I'm glad you are in so much pain - I could care less how you feel..." etc etc. Afew little fantasies on my part kept me from actually going over there and pounding her face in. And in the end I got the ultimate sweet revenge. A better marriage than I ever thought possible.

Ok folks....I did not read every post on the thread being discussed. However, many of the people posting were saying that violence is not warranted. Yes we all have things going through our heads we must not act on them. Anytime anyone brings up violence here, IMHO we, as a group need to discourage it. Even as a vent thread. Perhaps we could move the ventor to a better frame of mind?To me, the most interesting thing about threads like that is that it shows the depth of the pain, depression and psychosis that the BS suffers as a result of an affair. This might give a WS or OP a little more understanding into what the BS suffers. I know for my part I’ve fought going off the deep end (not violence to another person) since d-day. Even now, while things are going well I have my very bad days. I was treated hideously in my previous marriage. His affairs were noise compared to his treatment of me. But to enter into a new marriage and find out what my H did threw me for a loop. For the first time in my life I have actually considered hurting myself. Why? Because I wanted the pain to go away and I had no way of doing that. I wanted to be in a marriage where I was loved and cherished, not disrespected and treated like a rag. It seems that in this lifetime I have no control over that. So why would I want to be here?It is very easy for WS’s and OP’s to look down on the pain the BS feels. It’s easy for them to feel superior. The persons with more power in a situation always do.I’d rather see people come here to vent this rage so that they can have people help them through it, then to have them stew over it in their lives and actually act on it.As for the idea that the OP is in pain too: I could care less about the pain of the OP. Do you think that most OP give a hang about the pain of the BS? Hardly. The OP brought it upon themselves. They can get themselves over the pain all on their own.. .that’s what gloryb is for. I really hate these threads where people from gloryb come here to tell us how superior and all loving they are. If they were superior then they would not be involved in affairs to start with. If they were all loving they would never be involved in hurting another human the way they have.So what’s worse? Being in an affair? Or blowing off some steam so that a person can prevent themselves from acting it out in their real lives?[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: zorweb ]

So two wrongs make a right? Ummm....nope!Most people who have affairs aren't out to hurt anyone...they're trying to fill the gaping hole in their life, although the way in which they are trying to do so is wrong and misguided. That's a good bit different from wanting to dissolve someone in acid or beat them.Think about what you people are trying to accomplish, and how your actions and thoughts are helping to meet that goal...or detracting from it. This place will look like a Jerry Springer episode before too long...and it's a shame, too. There are too many other "poor me" affair sites out there as it is that don't accomplish a damn thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by feeling1:
I wonder why the resentment is aimed at the other person. Why don't we all take a good look at ourselves and the lying, cheating person we are married to before we make excuses for their behavior.<hr></blockquote> There is usually plenty of anger and resentment to go around. I never made excuses for my H's behavior and neither did he. He took full responsibility. I held him fully accountable for everything he did. I had plenty of anger and resetment for him. But I have also always felt that sleeping with someone else's spouse is a toally low life and cruel thing to do to someone else, even to someone you don't know. I've felt this way long before I was married. The bottom line is that it is easier to forgive someone we love and want in our lives than it is to "forgive" someome who we definitely don't love and we definitely don't
want in our lives. I had much more of an incentive to make peace with my resentful feelings towards my H than I did to make peace with some skank who willingly and eagerly entered into an affair with my husband and purposefully tried to ruin my life (even more) when he ended their affair. Another biggy for me - He was SORRY for all of the horrible pain he caused me. He was in my face 24/7 showing me how sorry he was for what he did and doing everythign possible to make it up to me and work on the marriage. Remorse goes a long way with me and it meant a lot. The OW wasn't sorry (except for herself) and she even told me she was glad that I was hurting so badly. H took full responsibility for his actions. OW didn't own up to any responsibility for her part in the affair, for the choices she willingly made that lead to her pain. Even though she admitted that she had been asking him out for several months before anything happened, she still said it was all his fault. Oh and my fault, I forgot. He ruined her life because he "broke her heart" (barf) and I ruined her life because I took him back. Honestly though, if she had left me alone and not turned fatal attraction she would pretty much be a complete nonentity to me (which is what I wanted).

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
So two wrongs make a right? Ummm....nope!Most people who have affairs aren't out to hurt anyone...they're trying to fill the gaping hole in their life, although the way in which they are trying to do so is wrong and misguided. That's a good bit different from wanting to dissolve someone in acid or beat them.<hr></blockquote>But people who have affairs DO HURT OTHER PEOPLE. They hurt INNOCENT people. They hurt INNOCENT children. The OP's intent does not absolve them of the destruction they leave in their path. Ted Bundy didn't mean to hurt people either, he was just out to "fill a gap in his little life." Good grief, talk about warped logic.On the other hand, joking about harming vile, sick, destructive individuals is a perfectly healthy way of releasing steam. So no, your analogy doesn't work here because they are not both WRONGS.

Please everyone, ignore some of the terribles posts here by the Om/Ow. Things seems to be going downhill on GloryB. That site is quiet unless they have a flame war going on. Many of them are bored with going to I.comm to make waves so lately they have been coming here."Clarkie" seems to be on at least 3 to 4 different boards a day to see who is saying what. If you read some of this posts on GloryB, you will see that "he" is not qualify to be a moderator. Objective, he is not. Only time that he likes to post is when there's a flame going on and he's usually on the side "kicking" the injured party. Only on GloryB would you have someone like him as a moderator. Shannon, you said GloryB helped you, but didn't they tell you to stop your whining about your internet affair? And when you tried to kick Clarkie off as moderator, you were told to go?As for the recent post about "hurting the OP", there were so many references on GloryB about hurting the betrayed that it's a norm for them that they don't even notice the remarks. If the OP want to point fingers at the spouses about venting, then make sure you can point it at yourself first.

Yes they are. Murderous thoughts are pretty wrong...or at the very least unprodictive. Are we going to all be petty and sink into this kind of immature idiocy, or grow up a bit and move forward? I still CAN'T BELIEVE that anyone thinks violent fantasies are OK? Give me a BREAK!

TTF,
Why are you here? I'm not sure of your story. Are you here to rebuild your marriage, or learn about affairs and how they possibly have affected your life? Your posts don't seem to be directed at learning or helping anyone. You are pointing your fingers at this board and all it's problems... what are you trying to do to get it on track?
You said:
Most people who have affairs aren't out to hurt anyone...they're trying to fill the gaping hole in their life, although the way in which they are trying to do so is wrong and misguided. That's a good bit different from wanting to dissolve someone in acid or beat them.The difference is wanting to do something, and doing something. The difference is HAVING and affair, and WANTING to seek revenge.There's many of us that want or NEED to fill a gaping hole in our lives, but we don't resort to adultery or infidelity to fill that hole. BIGGGGG difference. You're very right: we shouldn't allow ourselves to even *think* lustful or vengeful thoughts at ALL. You are right that those two things are WRONG. It seems that we all agree on the following:
1. THinking, feeling and venting, and then moving on is healthy.2. Dwelling, or acting on these thoughts is what is illegal, immoral, or dangerous.my 2 cents[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]

TowardsTheFutureYou are right that two wrongs do not make a right. Affairs are wrong because they hurt innocent people. But those involved in the affair did have an affair. They acted on it. A wrong was committed.Of the two wrongs of thinking of committing a crime and actually committing one, which is a more grievous wrong?As for the venting/voicing of evil, revengeful thoughts. In traditional psychotherapy this type of venting is encouraged. They actually teach people to use things like pillows as substitutes for the person they are angry with. They teach people to beat the pillow up, yell at it, etc… to get it out. How is this any different from what is going on here? Well the difference is that it is going on in a public forum instead of the privacy of a doctor’s office.I don’t think that I was talking about two wrongs. No one here is advocating doing anything to the OP or the WS. What I was trying to say above is that we have to face the fact that BS’s often sink to terrible, black places emotionally. I would rather have them come here and tell us about it and then have the people on this board talk them to a more reasonable place. Perhaps we can prevent a tragedy by doing this. I think what happened on that other thread is that as soon as one person brought it up, people came out of the shadows with their sick fantasies. You are also right that this place is starting to look like a Jerry Springer show lately. The point I was trying to make is that what we have seen here is the ugliness can go on in the BS’s mind. Most BS’s know that they have to stop these thoughts. But some people don’t and that’s scary.I have become very concerned about the turn this board is taking. There is little marriage building (of the MB sort) going on here. It is turning into a venting board. While it does help to get our anger and frustration out once in a while the best thing to do, as suggested my MB, DB and most other successful marriage building models, is to just start doing the right thing. Venting and wallowing will not get anyone anywhere. If too much of it is done, a person will actually dig an emotional hole that they cannot get out of easily.STL and I discussed this last night and how to turn the board around and away from this stuff and back to more solid “MB’ing”?TTF and every one else, what do you suggest we do, as a loosely knit group, to this end?

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
Yes they are. Murderous thoughts are pretty wrong...or at the very least unprodictive. Are we going to all be petty and sink into this kind of immature idiocy, or grow up a bit and move forward? I still CAN'T BELIEVE that anyone thinks violent fantasies are OK? Give me a BREAK!<hr></blockquote>Most people who joke and fantasize about harming evil, destructive people aren't out to hurt anyone...they're trying to fill the gaping hole in their life. Know what I mean? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
So two wrongs make a right? Ummm....nope!Most people who have affairs aren't out to hurt anyone...they're trying to fill the gaping hole in their life, although the way in which they are trying to do so is wrong and misguided<hr></blockquote>Congratulations on penning one of the most moronic statements I have seen in a long time. If you think there is good in everyone, then you have not met everyone. Some people get off on stealing something that belongs to others. Just for the sake of stealing. I don't fantasize about justice. I am committed to it. If the OM (the spineless freak who sacrificed his wife and two young kids to marry my XW) ever puts a hand on my son, his bodily functions will be altered forever. You see, they cannot be trusted because lives have little value. So it just involves more than two self centered individuals bent on genital exhileration.

I've been here quite a while, Faith...search my posts if you're interested in my story. I'm happily in recovery, and I guess I shouldn't get so frustrated by seeing other people in such a totally wrong and unproductive frame of mind (i.e. "should I get physical" or "have you hurt OP") but I do anyway. It is frustrating to see people so off the course in how recovery thinking should seemingly be, but I guess there's no set "road map" and some people have to learn the hard way.

It is encouraging to know that people use to get stoned to death in the Old Testament for Adultery. The New Testament says forgive this but also says she must "go and sin no more". What about all these OW/OM who have no remorse? The law should do something. It should be a punishable crime. But those enforcing the laws are breaking them themselves so we are all left unprotected. Our laws are just going to crap, rape, incest, adultery, our nation is going to crap. The Bible talks about this is how it will be at the end times. I found myself praying for OW the other day. The ONLY way she will fully understand the harm she has done is if she becomes bornagain. Otherwise, there are no rules, do whatever makes you happy. But in the end there will be a price to pay.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
 I'm happily in recovery, and I guess I shouldn't get so frustrated by seeing other people in such a totally wrong and unproductive frame of mind (i.e. "should I get physical" or "have you hurt OP") but I do anyway. It is frustrating to see people so off the course in how recovery thinking should seemingly be, but I guess there's no set "road map" and some people have to learn the hard way.<hr></blockquote> Obviously not everyone recovers in the same way and I imagine many WS see it a lot differently than the BS. I had revenge fantasies (though mine were mostly along the lines of getting her fired from her job), never acted on them even though the OW directly harassed me for 3 months. In the end living well really is the best revenge. I'm living proof that afew unacted on fantasies don't damage recovery because afew days was 3 years of successful and happy recovery for us! Things have never been better, despite my horrible troll like BS thoughts that I supposedly wasn't "entitled to have" lol. Bad thoughts about the OW neither hurt nor helped our marital recovery. It was something totally separate, just for me. Those thought kept me from actually doing anything rash while she was harassing me.

Okieman...I'm not saying that having an affair isn't wrong...it takes a two year old to see that it is. That's not what's being discussed here...frankly the OP should be insignificant and thought shoukdn't be wasted on them. I was talking specifically about the WS's motivation...which, for women at least (which I am) is just to get the attention and love that's missing in their relationship. It wasn't about willfully hurting anyone...and thoughts of premeditated murder are not about filling missing emotional needs, IMHO...unless it's trying to regain the loss of the precious power and control that was unhealthy and probably imaginary to begin with.Why is so much thought being devoted to the OP? They are insignificant! They cound be anybody! That DO NOT MATTER! They filled a role, that's all..so why are you people wasting time dwelling on thoughts of hurting them when you could be spending that time and energy working towards repairing your marriage?[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: TowardsTheFuture ]

TTF,What was that comment that most OPs do not intend to hurt anyone???
People who drive while under the influence don't intend to hurt others either. Bottom line is they do.
Both can be prevented and can be stopped.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by cl:
TTF,What was that comment that most OPs do not intend to hurt anyone???
People who drive while under the influence don't intend to hurt others either. Bottom line is they do.
Both can be prevented and can be stopped.<hr></blockquote> And both are totally selfish yet deliberate actions (unless the OP doesn't know the MP is married). Most OP probably don't set out to hurt anyone, they just don't care or think about the feelings of others. I know that was the case with the one I dealt with.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
I've been here quite a while, Faith...search my posts if you're interested in my story. I'm happily in recovery, and I guess I shouldn't get so frustrated by seeing other people in such a totally wrong and unproductive frame of mind (i.e. "should I get physical" or "have you hurt OP") but I do anyway. It is frustrating to see people so off the course in how recovery thinking should seemingly be, but I guess there's no set "road map" and some people have to learn the hard way.<hr></blockquote>Have you considered that you might not be in a position to tell others - especially BS' - what their "road map" is? They didn't run out and have an illicit affair, you did. So please stop the moralizing, it sounds so hollow and fake coming from a WS.Further, just as many have expressed over and over here, joking and fantasizing about harming someone who has caused great destruction in your life is a very healthy way to vent and release steam. Ask any psychologist. If it bothers you so much, then ignore the thread, but don't try and exaggerate it into something that is harmful just because it makes you uncomfortable. The BSes here have no obligation to stop doing what is normal and healthy just to accomodate your guilty conscience.

I really don't have much to add one way or the other on this thread. When I was reading this I was reminded of a sign that hangs in my office. It says:Watch your thoughts; they become words
Watch your words; they become actions
Watch your actions; they become habits
Watch your habits; they become character
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny

Not to jump on the bash TTF bandwagon, but TTF your past posts here have been quirky at best. On another thread where the discussion was about violence toward the WS, EVERYONE agreed that violence was not the answer. I went a step further on that thread and told my story of how I resorted to violence with my WS as an illustration of "what NOT to do", and your post towards me was one of condemnation, as though I was somehow trying to justify my actions. It's as though you don't actually READ what people post here, particularly what I wrote on that particular thread. It's as though you see the words, but that you don't interpret them without first running it through a filter that is full of guilt and self-centeredness. And yes self-centeredness, is the term I choose. I choose it because of the comments that you made on the thread about hurting the OP. When you, a WS tells a BS.....
<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:Quit thinking about yourselves so much...it was probably thinking more of "you" than it was "the TWO of you (as in you and your spouse)" that got you to where you are now to begin with. <hr></blockquote>
That is a self-centered statement that shifts the blame of the affair from the WS, where it rightfully belongs, to that of the BS. While I think most people here will agree that it takes BOTH spouses to create the conditions in a marriage where an affair becomes a strong possibility, the responsibility of having an affair rests totally in the lap of the WS, which from the tone of yours posts, is something that it doesn’t seem that you understand.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by feeling1:
I wonder why the resentment is aimed at the other person. Why don't we all take a good look at ourselves and the lying, cheating person we are married to before we make excuses for their behavior.<hr></blockquote>I can answer this Feeling1. My H's OW harassed me while I was home sick fighting stage 3 cervical cancer. I had never met, seen, talk to, or done ANYTHING to this woman, She was a complete stranger to me. She wanted my H and I was in the way, he would not leave me for her like he promised. She hated me simply because I was married to the man she wanted.So OW calls me several times and leaves msgs on my answering machine calling me filthy, vile names, Cancerous C___t, etc. She tells me my H gets physicaly sick just at the thought of touching me ... she uses ill gained personal information shared by my H (my hertitage, my income, my medical history) to hurt me in the most profound way ... and I'm at home sick from rad treatments, which SHE KNOWS. I asked my H to tell her to stop calling, does she? NO .. she does it more and makes a point to say that my H threatened her about calling me.So Feeling1, do you think my anger and resentment of this STRANGER is justified. Do you think this woman had a right to do this, do you think I deserved THAT?Jo[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]

The OW in my former marriage went out of her way to ingratiate herself to me. Telling me what a good person she was and how much she believed in marriage and even how I should be grateful for the suffering I was going through as it would make me a better artist. This woman painted a big red bullseye on her forehead by doing this and so I exacted a little petty vengance. Nothing physically harmful but something that made her nuts and me laugh my [censored] off for several days. Yup, I can only imagine mis pollyanna's face when the crap hit the fan, can't reveal what it was but it was rich. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Sorry had she left me alone and not made herself a target I would have let her be.

I would venture a guess that most BS's on this site have taken a very good look at themselves. Part of the MB philosophy.
There are instances when the BS needs to be accountable and responsible for problems in the marriage that may have led to affairs. But that is NOT always the case. Nor does it justify the actions of the WS by having an affair!

I'm glad that everyone is concentrating on the greater meaning behind what I say and how I think......maybe it's a step closer to realizing how what they think themselves influeces their lives and outlooks.I don't think people that bully and intimidate their spouses (or even think about doing so), or cause property damage in Springer-induced rage, are anywhere near a place to preach to me about morals.I don't mind getting bashed [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Maybe if you're busy doing that you won't beat your wives, crash cars, or boil anyone in acid [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Instead of moralizing and telling others how to act might I suggest you work on yourself? The BSes here have no obligation to stop doing what is normal and healthy just to accomodate your guilty conscience.If it bothers you that much, just skip the thread.

Scarlett,That is a beautiful quote??Watch your thoughts; they become words
Watch your words; they become actions
Watch your actions; they become habits
Watch your habits; they become character
Watch your character; it becomes your destinyPrinted it out and hung it in my office.but ???.I'm rolling on the floor laughing!!!! YOU are coming here preaching morality and character? Like I said earlier, for some strange reason, many OP seem to think they are on moral high ground. Yes, the quote is something for us all to try to live by. The people here are struggling with how to do that with the curve that has been thrown at them.And I suppose that you are struggling to live by it too, despite your previous choices to have affairs with married men and to cheat on the men in your life.We all have our struggles. You have often stated that you want to be accepted, forgiven and not preached to. Well then return the favor. You are in no position to preach.

TTF,I wonder if what bothers you the most about the venting thread is that it makes the depth of pain caused the BS so clear.Again I agree with you that the OP is insignificant in that they mean nothing to the BS. However, they are not insignificant in that they actively participate in hurting the BS. No time what so ever should be wasted on thinking of them. That is exactly my take on the subject.BS's who spend too much time/energy on the OP are giving them too much power and control over their lives. Ignoring them keeps our perspective where it should be, on ourselves, our spouses and our marriages.However, there are different cases? In almost all affairs the OP spends time bashing the BS with the WS. That is a direct harm to the BS.Some OP spend a lot of time and energy attacking the BS verbally, stalking them, and doing every thing possible to be hurtful to them.
Some OP are actually 'friends' of the BS. So the BS is twice betrayed. This happened to me in my previous marriage. The mother on my son's friend was one of the OW'en. I wanted to rip her face off.. she came into my home when I was gone taking care of our rental property in another state. I had to make this trip monthly and she was apparently in my home, with my H some of these times. But I did nothing to her.. Instead I broke off all contact with her and her family. Gave her no explanation. She needed none.So in some cases the OP is rather hard to ignore.As for the OP only filling a role and it could have been anyone: Now there is a dehumanizing statement? reducing the OP to simply a piece of meat. You'd be hard pressed to find an OP who believes this. If we can say that the OP has no significance in the affair because it could have been anyone. Then can we not say that the mugger has no responsibility for his crime because it could have been anyone? The statement seems to make the assumption that the OP had no free will in the affair. They choose to be involved and they choose to harm the BS. Just like the mugger, they choose their course. That they did not go up to the BS and physically bonk the BS on their head does not mean that the OP did not purposely harm them.If my kids told me that they were involved in something that, by natural consequences hurt another person, and then my kids said "Well I really did not mean to hurt them, I was only trying to fill a void in myself." Their punishment would be more no less sever then if hurting the person was their only intent. Why? Because they did not think things through. As a parent, it's my job to teach my kids to anticipate the natural consequences of their actions. Most parents would do the same thing.Yet, so often on this forum, people are asking the BS to not hold adults to this standard.TTF, you are a smart woman who does have a lot to give and share. My suggestion is that when you see a post/thread that bothers you that you either ignore it. Or that you try to use your influence, in a non-judgmental, non-preachy manner to bring the conversation and those in it to the right place. That is what is needed and this forum ?.. firm, loving guidance.As for where people here on in their recovery. There are few of us who are in recovery of any sorts. I am one of the lucky ones. Most people in recovery don't hang out here, it's too painful. Most of the people hanging out here are in the middle of either handling their spouse's affair or their own affair. They are being metered out huge dosages of mistreatment daily. Why are you trying to tell them to not have normal human reactions? These people are mostly trying to find their way to get their spouse to save their marriage or to find their way out of the marriage. Those of us in recovery are here to be supportive of those who have been through what we have been through. I have noticed in your posts here that you are very supportive of WS who come here. You understand them and give them compassion. Even when they are in the middle of doing the wrong thing. Yes with BS's you are harsh if they do anything that is not kind and loving? can you find some compassion for what the BS is going through? Perhaps the only way you can, would be if your marriage was going well and your H cheated on you.
Do you know that there is a high probability that he will, statistically speaking? Sometimes people have to experience it before they understand what an affair does to the BS. I know that I would never have understood if it had not happened to me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
Have you considered that you might not be in a position to tell others - especially BS' - what their "road map" is? They didn't run out and have an illicit affair, you did. The BSes here have no obligation to stop doing what is normal and healthy just to accomodate your guilty conscience.<hr></blockquote>Here Here Melody Lane...you go girl!TTF merely sounds defensive and immature. I need ZERO advice from a arrogant WS, nor do I want it. Her "roadmap" sounds only like rationalization.Maybe she has never looked into her young childs eyes after they learn of the affair. Maybe she's never been empathetic enough to realize the pain she caused others by her affiar. I did not need to be told she is a WS to see it.Roadmap, humph. Roadmap to destruction.Dara

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
I'm glad that everyone is concentrating on the greater meaning behind what I say and how I think......maybe it's a step closer to realizing how what they think themselves influeces their lives and outlooks. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <hr></blockquote>Oh I am in such a state of gratitude and indebtedness to you your highness.Thank you so very much.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Still Learning As I go:
Oh I am in such a state of gratitude and indebtedness to you your highness.Thank you so very much.<hr></blockquote>Lol. I just don't see where a WS has any right to tell BS what they are entitled to feel, or what is normal or acceptable for the BS to feel.

ORIGINALLY FROM ZORWEB:
As for where people here on in their recovery. There are few of us who are in recovery of any sorts. I am one of the lucky ones. Most people in recovery don't hang out here, it's too painful. Most of the people hanging out here are in the middle of either handling their spouse's affair or their own affair. They are being metered out huge dosages of mistreatment daily. Why are you trying to tell them to not have normal human reactions? These people are mostly trying to find their way to get their spouse to save their marriage or to find their way out of the marriage. Those of us in recovery are here to be supportive of those who have been through what we have been through. Zorweb you r the bomb. That is exactly what I wanted to say.

You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
 You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <hr></blockquote>You just dont quit do you? I am sorry we wasted your time, as you most certainly in your most qualified opinion shared with us.SO, maybe I'll adopt your philosphy. I still hurt in my recovery with H, and his affair still haunts me. He doesnt always meet my needs.So I'll have an affiar of my own! Yeah, thats it. Get someone else to meet my needs, based on your sage advice. And, thanks to you, I can do it without guilt shame or remorse cause you said it was ok.Thank you! I would have never thought of it.
Gotta go find someone, excuse me.Dara

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. You have a right to be as slow and tedious in recovery as you would like to be. Feel free to flounder along as you have been...I certainly won't waste any more time trying to stop you [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <hr></blockquote>
You are the person our parents warned us about.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by TowardsTheFuture:
You're right...I shouldn't tell you how to feel or act. Pardon me for trying to point out that these kinds of behavior patterns are unhelpful, unproductive, and destructive. <hr></blockquote>TTF,Maybe this is wise, because until you have worn the BS's hat, and felt the unbelievable betrayal and grief that comes with discovering infidelity in your marriage, you cannot begin to understand how one would or SHOULD cope with it. As one who was on the other side of the fence, you really can't empathize with the immeasurable pain we experience. Therefore, your advice or recommendations, while written with good intentions, are miles from what we (BS) need to hear, considering the source.Please don't be offended. JMVHO.Jo[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]

Doggone it. I SO much hate it when this happens. Please, you guys......don't start a big fight with each OTHER here. Most of you are so good, and so strong, and so very,very giving on this board. Please don't turn on each other. PLEASE. We all have so much to deal with in our individual lives. This board is an oasis of help and love to most individuals who utilize it, as Gloryb is to most of the people who post over there. I know that a lot of you know this, but for those who have never read there, or who read an unfortunate thread or two (usually posted by a newbie who is in the "lust" state), the majority of the folks who post at gloryb are not happy about the situation. They aren't gloating, or plotting......in fact most are in active pain, as are so many here. They are trying to figure out how to get out of bed in the morning, how to go on, how to ever believe in anyone again. Also, many are dealing with guilt, the total disbelief that they could EVER have gotten so caught up in something that they were raised to think is wrong. Oh sure...there are a couple who seem to like and actively pursue that type of relationship, but quite frankly, after a month or two, they start learning REAL fast that the "love of their life" is a damn liar, and hard, cold reality hits hard. Most of the ladies and gentlemen who post on gloryb would prefer being boiled alive to ever getting into another relationship that involved infidelity of any sort. I have never been cheated on, (that I am aware of, anyway! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) but I can well imagine that I would have a VERY active fantasy life for a while......that may well include poisen darts, tweezers, and electric cattle prods, LOL, so I can't really imagine NOT doing that, but maybe some people are just much nicer than I am. I wouldn't ever DO anything (i don't think, but I have learned never to say never!), but I can certainly imagine thinking about it, if I ever found out that my husband was unfaithful to me, because he is my love, and my life. I have started a few threads over there for the same reason that I imagine that the one in question was started....just to blow off some steam, or because I could see that all of us over there needed a bit of humor. Anyway, I guess I just wanted to encourage us all to care for the members of our boards, no matter if this one or that one thinks exactly as we do...no matter what. I would like to say thanks again to THIS board, as it has helped my husband and I tremendously to build and care for our marriage. Thanks ...... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Z-LOL! Calm down !!It was never my intension to preach. Reading this thread reminded me of that quote. Honest to God I was 100% dispassionate when I read this thread. It doesn't mean diddly to me. It just reminded me of that sign.

what is I.comm ?

what a nice bunch of forgiving people you all are! Is this Romper room?

TTF:I do agree with you that dwelling on horrible fantasies like bathing in acid OM and WW are wrong, immature, sickening, and unproductive. In my case, said fantasies had such a short lifespan (less than hour) before reality and morality told me that they were wrong,immature,sickening and unproductive.Now let's take the OM and WW affair. Their vile,wrong,immature,sickening and unproductive wrong goes beyond the one hour I had my fantasies. No their wrong goes on and on and on, and the victims, spouses and children, endure the pain of having their world shattered. Living with a WW becomes a hellish experience because in order to justify her evil, she rewrittes history and convinces herself that what she is doing is just because she was pushed by her husband to do it and this in turn makes her lash out against her spouse and children. Don't beleive me?, just ask other BS's how great it is to live with a WS while they are deep in their affair. In a spiritual sense, a WS has already and actually bathed spouse and children in acid.Joe

TTF,
May I quote your part of your sig line?"It is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self-seeking"
T

Not trying to be rude here, but let me guess, Only Human is a WS? I tried to look up the posts from 15895, and each one was pages long, and there were just short little comments.We are all only human. Forgiveness is a tough issue. In fact, God had to send Jesus so we could be forgiven. I think that says volumes.Elizabeth

I did search through some of those long threads till I go the answer... Only Human was first a BS then later a WS.

just the wife,
if you have a question for me, feel free to ask
and if I think my answers will help anyone and that does mean anyone, I will be glad to give my input.I'm not here for battle with you or anyone else.

<blockquote>quote:<hr> what a nice bunch of forgiving people you all are! Is this Romper room? <hr></blockquote>Sorry, this did not help me, just irritated me. Hope it helped someone else.I never intended for this to become any sort of battle, having been here for a year and a half now I'm sure someone can vouch for me.I visited gloryb for the first time and was shocked by what I read. The reason many of us post around here is because we are having an issue with forgiveness. Having been a BS I am sure you can relate.If you cannot, then you are a much better person than I.

jtw,
I'm sorry, I just now seen you were recently
divorced . I better understand your issue with forgivness.