A question for all BS's - Marriage Builders® Forums

Would you make this same attempt to salvage your marriage if your spouse had NOT had an affair? If he/she had come to you and said "this is not working and I want a divorce" would you then feel the same need to save it?
This thread was influenced by the Julia Roberts thread.

Yes.Fixing my marriage was never about the affair... the affair got in the way of fixing the marriage...Cali

I have to honestly say that if my W had come to me and said this prior to D-Day, I probably would have agreed with her. As a matter of fact, I approached my W with this very statement when she was in the beginning stages of her affair, as well as a couple of months later when the affair was in full bloom, and on both occasions it was she that talked me out of it, stating that she wanted to work on making our marriage better.Go Figure [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

The affair(s) was only a symptom of our marital difficulties. I didn't realize we were in such a bad state (depression, complacency, etc...).I wish I'd have been put on notice about how unhappy she was. YES, I should have known, yes I should have seen the signs, YES, I DID ASK her if she was happy (she said yes).I think that the A gave me the kick in the pants that I needed to sort myself out and to really find what's important to me. I'm actually thankful for that....but I wish maybe we'd have tried a little less horrible alternative first.In answer to your question: ABSOLUTELY I would want my marriage if it weren't for the A(s).Kev

JC,
I guess it depends on the situation. My wife's affair was straight out of the blue, we were getting along famously and most of our needs were being met. So if she said anything like "I want it over" it would be a shock to me. Would I want to work it out? Yes I think I would make an effort. As it stands when I "felt" something was wrong and before I discovered the A I did try and communicate and help because I saw her changing in front of me. I tried everything to get at what the problem was, but she just denied anything was up and would just say "it's nothing, I am just tired" or "I'm working too hard".Hope that helps in some way.
harley

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by J-C:
Would you make this same attempt to salvage your marriage if your spouse had NOT had an affair? If he/she had come to you and said "this is not working and I want a divorce" would you then feel the same need to save it?
<hr></blockquote>

Absolutely. That is exactly what my spouse said to me as a matter of fact. He vehemently denied the affair until after he had ended it, we were back together and the OW called me to tattle. So although I had suspicions I was never really positive that there was an affair until after it was over. I wasn't fighting an affair, I was just fighting for my marriage and the man I love. I chose not to keep digging into "is he having an affair?" and instead focused on the other issues. I figured if we could deal with those issues then IF there was an affair it would go away when the issues were solved. And it did.

YES! Absolutely!

Yes, absoultely. Here is an exceprt from an e-mail I wrote the day before D-DAY:We can spend the rest of our lives blaming the other for everything under the sun. That is poison to our marriage. The only way to begin fresh is to forgive every sin of the past and start with a clean slate....For every sin you think I've committed against you, I can name one you've committed against me. For every negative comparison you make against all these other perfect husbands, I could probably make one against some "ideal" wife. That is more poison. That is a hopeless road......I truly do love you. The thing that makes me happiest in the entire world is to look in your eyes and see you are happy. That is the truth from the depth of my heart. I can't put it any other way. I know you find that hard to believe, but that is the true happiness I expect from a marriage-to see my wife happy. Right now I'm afraid that you contemplate true happiness only separated from me. That is scary, hurtful, hope-reducing, and frustrating. I can't expect that to change quickly. I can't expect you to change quickly. While I was writing this note, my wife was in bed with another man. The next day, I found out about her A.I have been working at winning her back every day since.[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Boppo57 ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by J-C:
Would you make this same attempt to salvage your marriage if your spouse had NOT had an affair? If he/she had come to you and said "this is not working and I want a divorce" would you then feel the same need to save it?
This thread was influenced by the Julia Roberts thread.<hr></blockquote>Why not? I would have made MORE of an attempt. Because of the affair, my committment to recovery was very half-hearted because I no longer felt the same level of love and respect for my H. I probably will never feel the same towards him, but I would have loved him more and made more of an effort if he had done it the honorable way. This way, he has had to do most of the work to reassure me and to reprove himself. Not to mention the fact that I will never ever trust him completely again. I have never felt the passion for him that I once felt. It has never come back. I think the point you are trying to make is that an affair was the only way you could wake up your spouse and I don't believe that. Nor do I think you had your affair for therapeutic reasons since an affair can only damage, not help a marriage. To think otherwise is delusional. It causes PERMANENT damage.

By the way, it's an error to assume that every affair happens because of a deficiency in the marriage. That is certainly not always the cause. I found out about my H's internet EA after we had been married only 4 months. I didn't have TIME to deprive him. He wasn't doing that stuff because of a deficit in his marriage but because of a deficit in HIMSELF.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
I think the point you are trying to make is that an affair was the only way you could wake up your spouse and I don't believe that. Nor do I think you had your affair for therapeutic reasons since an affair can only damage, not help a marriage. To think otherwise is delusional. It causes PERMANENT damage.<hr></blockquote> Isn't that the truth. God how I wish that my H had told me or given me the slightest clue that he was unhappy. When I asked him why, if he was unhappy, he didn't let me know sooner. He said "because I didn't want you to know." Kinda makes it hard to fix anything! Then again, he didn't start deciding he was unhappy until after he started being a shoulder to cry on for the poor OW about her mean boyfriend. Misery loves company. 2 months before the A he told me out of the blue "I love being married to you." Around that same time he also told my BIL "Things couldn't be more perfect for us. I have everything I ever wanted." Then I had a miscarriage and he started freaking out.

Yes, I tried for years to get my wife (WS) to pay attention to the deteriorating state of our marriage to no avail. Granted, I didn't communicate my disatisfaction as well as I should (in hindsight), but I tried. She didn't lift a finger and simply made lame excuses why she no longer had affection for me. I would have loved to have heard any acknowledgement from her that she was aware it wasn't working. Right before I discovered her affair she told me she couldn't have blamed me if I had gone and had an affair because of the way she had treated me for so long.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
By the way, it's an error to assume that every affair happens because of a deficiency in the marriage. That is certainly not always the cause.
<hr></blockquote> True. My H's affair was a result of depression, mid life crisis and his own selfish desires to try to regain his lost youth and run from adult repsonsibility. It was such a relief to hear him say "Can you help me to get some help? There is something really wrong with me. I want to feel like my old self again, I want our old life back."

J-C, I would have loved to have the opportunity to fix the problems before my H had an A, actually to even know what the problems were from H's perspective. He simply did not talk to me and when asked he would reply "I'm am just stressed about work" or some other conflict avoidant response.If my H had not had an A and instead had said to me "this is not working and I want a divorce", I would probably be putting more effort into rebuilding the M now than I am. The whole A-related damage has simply exhausted me, and I don't have much motivation to be the one to raise our M from the depths these days. Sad, but true.

J-C I have to agree with what OneDay said. I had no clue, none at all that there was a problem in my marriage. To the best of my knowledge his affair began in the spring of 2000. During that time we were remodeling our new home, putting in a swimming pool, planning a vacation - you know family things. I still don't understand what was in his mind or the OW's. I know she knew of all this work being done at our home and I'm sure she knew we were going on a vacation together since she had said so in one of her cards to him. Had he come to me and said this isn't working I want out I would have asked to talk about it. I would have asked him to see a counselor with me. I would have fought hard for my marriage. Now that I know of the affair it makes it harder. I have the thoughts of her to deal with along with trying to figure out what sent him running to her to begin with. So yes I would have fought for our marriage and it would have been much easier without this blonde roadblock in my way.

Yes, I did ... I did try to get her to conseling but she pushed me ... The different is I wish I know MB waaaaaay back then.

Hmmmm...neither of us would have asked for help...call it silly pride, anti-whiner mode, too many years being independent, but for us, asking for help was just not something we did. It would have been....embarrassing...if that makes sense.20/20 hindsight..because we both had this need to always appear strong in each others eyes, our communication would not have revealed much either...certainly kepted the A hidden until the last second! Unfortunately, the A is the only 2X4 that probably would've worked.
T

J-C,Of course I would! I love her and I care about her. Whether or not there was an affair wouldn't have changed my desire to make this work. In fact, I wish she would have come to me beforehand and told me something was wrong. It would have saved us (and me) a lot of misery.-HD

Well, I was trying to save my M almost from the day it began. I didn't give up until I got ahold of a cell phone bill he got all squirelly about (probably a couple months after his A began). Then I knew there was no point anymore. Either he was having an A or trying to make me think he was. Either way, I just couldn't take any more of his emotional cruelty and torture, and I went into withdrawal.

In my previous marriage I put a lot of effort into salvaging our marriage. When he would not seek help with me I sought it alone. He was never open or receptive to it. In ’93 I left him and filed for divorce. We reconciled because he promised me the moon. After about two months of joint counseling and things getting a little better he announced that it was all hogwash. We were ‘healed’. In the end I left. Or did he push me out the door? It was both. It was a horrible marriage. I had to leave to save my and our son’s sanity. As for my current marriage I thought I was working on it with all I had from before we were even engaged. He was just not there with me I guess. If he had approached me and said "this is not working and I want a divorce" I would have worked just as hard as I am now to save the marriage. The main difference is that I would not hurt as much. And I might not have found “Surviving an Affair”.

If he had come to me first, and said I have this thing going on in my head (he is a sex addict) I would have given 110%.When we were engaged, and he went thru inpatient alcohol rehab, I stood by him 110%.When I found out about his affair, I gave 110%.When he was in the accident, came off life support and confessed to continuing the affair he assured me was over a few weeks prior I gave my soul, my mental and physical health, and my family rallied to the cause.Love is love. Marriage vows are real. It doesn't matter what the issue is.For better or worse.I chose to give up my career, my dream of law school, more than willingly to join hearts with this man and raise a family.No matter what the situation (excluding physical violence) would be I would give everything I had to carry out my vow of till death do us part.What the problem is doesn't matter. Trying to make a marriage work after an affair has nothing to do with keeping what's yours, or not letting the jerk find happiness.Making a marriage work is why they say for better and for worse. Worse happens. Elizabeth

Yes, I was trying my hardest to fix my marriage before I learned of the affair. I just had an unwilling partner.

well, not a bs, but certainly have a marital history of discord to comment on.If I understand JC right, the question is whether without the pressure of the affair (and the fear the marriage is gonna really end) would people have worked as hard, and in same ways without an affair (and spouse just saying I am done)...IMO the answer is no in most cases, humans react to percieved threat (real or not)...and the only way to actually "threaten" a spouse to the max, is betrayal (actions DO speak louder than words), it is unequivocal, and one cannot help but observe the spouse "left". This galvanizes folks into action they would not have taken without the threat. It is also a pretty well documented psychological reality, that humans respond differently to life threatening stress, it strips you down to who you really are, I suspect the aftermath of an affair triggers that too, for bs and ws.In my case, I did complain, often and loudly starting BEFORE we got married, that we needed to fix things, or one day it would end. I found counsellor after counsellor, wrote her letters, often stood up to the chronic anger and criticism, but nothing ever changed (and yes, w was unhappy also, but I am the communicator in this relationship), so eventually I "left" via an affair (much to my suprise, but that is a different issue), I had been simply in the withdrawal stage, just waiting for the inevitiable divorce, been that way for 5 years, just taking care of duties, raising kids, paying the bills, and wondering how I could live the rest of my life like this, and why would I.....however the affair got w attention, I was rather shocked (and angry actually) that she even complained (rather than just dump me). I had even included her in the developing friendship with the ow, but she had no interest in what was going on. Anyways, the point is the affair caused her to participate more, (than she had in the past) in unraveling what the truths are re herself, my, and the marriage..... an affair in itself, will not fix, or end, a marriage....but it will force all parties to focus more, and make decisions they had heretofore avoided.

I am a BS and yes I would of worked on the marriage. You need to find a good counselor, one that you both are happy with. My WH found a counselor, but I feel and see that he was not a true marriage counselor. He works with inmates. He likes to phylosophy, but he never had a game plan. He never said we are going to do this next week, hardly ever gave homework, and when we walked in the door and sat down, he would always say "what shall we talk about today". Talked to various people going through counseling, and there is a plan, usually the counselor, tells you what homework to do, what they plan for next week, and of course they will allow for some changes. So yes I would of worked on marriage before the sexual affair.

Absolutely, positively YES!!! I recognized months before my husband's A started that us working opposite shifts and literally not seeing each other 5 days a week was tearing us apart. I tried for months to get him to open up and talk to me. He wouldn't even admit there was a problem until after the A started. Like some others' WSs, he told me he didn't know how he felt about me or if he wanted to be married, but totally denied an A. At that point I became a maniac trying to work on my marriage. I read everything I could find from my church and on the net to fix things. I Plan A'd my but off before I even knew what Plan A was. If anything, confirming that he had an A TOOK AWAY some of my motivation to work on my marriage. It made all that nice stuff I was doing harder to do.

I didn't read all the replies before my last post. I think I need to clarify. I am sure I would have done the work needed to improve my marriage without my WHs A. The key word there is "I". I'm a proactive person, a "doer" by nature--if something is wrong, particularly something important to me, I do EVERYTHING I can to fix it. Not everybody is that kind of person. Some people are so mired in their own complacency, it takes more to get them to change. My WH is that kind of person--a large part of the reason he ended up in an A is because he'd rather complain to someone who can't fix the situation than actually deal with the situation. I think you may be preaching to the choir here. The people on this board are here because we are proactively trying to rescue our marriages. There are BSs out there who, upon exposure of the A, throw up their hands in disgust, never look for a cause other than their spouse is a scumbag, and leave.

Yes, oh yes, oh yes, I wish I had had the chance.I knew that we were "growing apart." and had asked for more time together etc. (WH's workaholism is a whole other topic)But he didn't seem to see anything wrong, he was happy with his life. I can not imagine him ever coming to me with "This is not working, I want a divorce." But if he had, that would have been all the wake up call I needed. I would have worked, had been working, although fairly ineffectively.He admits that he didn't realize that he was unhappy with his life/marriage until there was this conversation with the wonderful women and everything clicked and they are soulmates...And the longer it goes on, the more recovery looks impossible. I still love him so much, but can this damage really be repaired?