The saga continues...I want recovery!- talking to WH today (Sat)

For anyone that has not been following my soap opera, heres a link to my old post, it was getting a little long:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019346

I am still in a "modified Plan B" state right now, letting him initiate the contact, when he does I will revert to Plan A but cautiously.

He told me yesterday in an email that it was over with OW. I have not contacted him since:

He just sent me this email this morning:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> We need to have a very long heart to heart to get some things out, I feel like I am dying inside right now. I am sick of being so torn up. <hr /></blockquote>How do I respond to this? Should I suggest that we do this heart to heart with counseling.

Help, what do I do, waiting for answers until I respond!!

[ August 17, 2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]

Hi g_c,

I've been following your post. I would go for it and see what he has to say.
Think about Plan A!!!!!!!! What ever you do, STAY CALM!!!! Listen to all he has to say and let him see that you are really listening.

I remember when I had found out about my H affair, I was able to stay very calm. I was able to take him into my arms and comfort him. He let me and he even cryed in my arms.

Many months later, my H told me that this reaction was what actually made him want to stay with me. He had expected me to get real mad and scream and yell. This never happened.

Because of my calmness and no LBing he felt warmth and he felt understood. He really needed a shoulder to cry on and he needed to feel understood, mostly because he didn't understand himself.

Your H is withdrawing. This is definately very painfull for him. If you can be a "giver" at the moment and see what happens. (I know the pain you are going through, gosh, but be strong)

This is what I would and what I did when my H was feeling the way your H is and it worked for us.

I wish you luck and calmness
BB

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by blondblossom:
Listen to all he has to say and let him see that you are really listening.

I remember when I had found out about my H affair, I was able to stay very calm. I was able to take him into my arms and comfort him. He let me and he even cryed in my arms.

Many months later, my H told me that this reaction was what actually made him want to stay with me. He had expected me to get real mad and scream and yell. This never happened.

Because of my calmness and no LBing he felt warmth and he felt understood. He really needed a shoulder to cry on and he needed to feel understood, mostly because he didn't understand himself.

Your H is withdrawing. This is definately very painfull for him. If you can be a "giver" at the moment and see what happens. (I know the pain you are going through, gosh, but be strong)

This is what I would and what I did when my H was feeling the way your H is and it worked for us.

I wish you luck and calmness
BB<hr /></blockquote>I know I need to do that, it is going to be hard. What if he tells me he's still in love with OW, how do I respond to that?

Should I call him, or should I reply back to his email, what should I say to him, or just listen??

GC,

I've been following the thread, the whole thing causes some real soul searching for you doesn't? Me too. I keep thinking what would I do......

I'd remember he is in withdrawal right now, and that has all the confusing effects we've seen others explain on the board. He is sick and tired of being sick and tired. Is this a bad thing?? i think you can remember when you were torn up, until YOU decided you were not going to be torn up anymore and focus on you. He is the one who must decide he will not be torn up anymore

I'd think he is looking for comfort from someone he may think is still available, this would be normal right. He want someone els to help him feel right, he just wants it right again without pain and possibly without working on it. We both know that won't happen.

I'd remember my boundries and conditions for restarting with him, he sounds like he wants that big R discussion with you, but he is still hurting from the withdrawal and may not be able to think straight, is that yor problem, only if you want straight thinking....

SC is right about he perception of your availability. You want him back, but with a big POJA...is he ready to even learn what that is???

How to answer him. Recognize his pain, grief. "I can see its tough for you right now..." and then let him know things should calm down a bit before you have that big talk. A day or two??

You are expecting his to ask you to let him come back. Are you ready for that? From what I read yes, but with the boundries in place and the rules agreed to. You question is then do you think he is ready to agree to anything in a committed manner....

The heart to heart with a counselor may not be bad, then the C can be the "bad" guy not you..
Can you two get with SH?

I wish i could suggest some phrase to say that would be magical, hope the best for you

DRS

GC,

Reply to his email, let him know you are willing to listen, but not to make any decisions just yet. It's just two early to make those type of life long decisions. agree to a time a few days off, so things can cool down a bit??? I agree with BB, stay calm, stay strong, stay giving, if it turns out good or bad, you will be glad you stayed to better person you've learned to be...

DRS

GC;
I would let him know you'd like a h-to-h very much, and listen to what he has to say.

Now this is important! DO NOT EDUCATE him, just let him talk, bring out what he needs to bring out, do not argue, especially about feelings, and only comment or answer if he asks you to.

I know, that is not going to be easy!

Then tell him you are grateful and happy that he trusts you and came to you to tell you all this, tell him you'll think about it and get back to him. That way you have time to calm down, cool off, think, plan, and go forward.

JMHO

I think I'd meet with him and listen to what he has to say. Don't make him any promises or commit to anything. Don't give him the impression that he can always run back to you. That's the last thing you need! From my perspective I'd let this h to h involve his heart and not my own. Go, see where his head is at...do not open the door to him until he is thinking clearly.

thanks for everyone's advice, I feel like I am the strong one right now. For some reason I think God had to make me strong and bring WH to his low point in order for things to work out for his will.

I replied back to him just now and said:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm sorry you're in pain, I'll be here when you are ready to talk. <hr /></blockquote>Something simple, I think?

I know he is going through withdrawal, but he does not know what he is going through, I really wish I could get him to read SAA. I'm scared he is going to say that it is too painful to forget about OW and there's no future with us.

I just rec'd the reply to my email.

It says:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I am planning on coming back to (our hometown) tomorrow night we can talk then. We
really need to get some things out, or at least I do. <hr /></blockquote>BTW, he has been staying with one of his friends closer to his work.

OK, now what should I think, how should I respond?

Same plan. You meet him, let him talk and you don't commit to anything. Nothing has changed.

So what do I say if he says "I'm miserable, I'm still in love with OW, I want to back to her, this will never work"

I guess my question would be, "then why are we talking?"

Let God's thoughts come to you...like Moses did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Willy1:
I guess my question would be, "then why are we talking?"

Let God's thoughts come to you...like Moses did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>I'm not for sure what to think or do anymore, I'm starting to think I have wasted over 18 months for nothing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Please, hear him out BEFORE you freak. I know it is easier said than done, but do your best not to put thoughts in his head right now.

I imagine you are on pins and needles, dying to know what he is going to tell you. I would be too! If he does say he wants out of the M, you WILL survive, and it will be HIS loss.

The intention of plan B is not to show the WS what they're missing. It's to make you look after your own needs with or without the WS. So what if goes back to her, you began your plan B to help yourself, not him! The last 18 months were not a waste. You did everything you could to make the marriage work, you can honestly say that to yourself...that's what the 18 months were about.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by findingmywayback:
Please, hear him out BEFORE you freak. I know it is easier said than done, but do your best not to put thoughts in his head right now.

I imagine you are on pins and needles, dying to know what he is going to tell you. I would be too! If he does say he wants out of the M, you WILL survive, and it will be HIS loss.<hr /></blockquote>I noticed that you were the WS, did you have any withdrawal or doubts, if so, what is a BS to do?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mgm:
The intention of plan B is not to show the WS what they're missing. It's to make you look after your own needs with or without the WS. So what if goes back to her, you began your plan B to help yourself, not him! The last 18 months were not a waste. You did everything you could to make the marriage work, you can honestly say that to yourself...that's what the 18 months were about.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, I have tried, I never had the opportunity to do a true PLAN A, he just moved right out of my life

I'm headed towards the anger tunnel of my roller coaster.

Why do I want him back after what he has put me through, why, if he has more feelings for someone else than me.

Why do I have to listen to HIM about how hard it is for him?
What about my feelings, I'm not the one who chose to have an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Deep breath and calm down. Waaaaay down! you are nervous about this upcoming meeting. Understandable. Don't let your anxieties get the best of you. Plan B was for you, not him. Plan B was to help you look after yourself with or without him. The last 18 months weren't a waste. At this point you can honestly say to yourself you did everything you could to make the M work...the next steps are up to him.

Nothing has changed. You go to the meeting, listen to what he has to say, make no commitments one way or the other, no hasty decisions on your part. Let him figure this out on his own, you can't fix this.

Whatever happens, whatever he says, please try to stay calm and focused on your goal. Time (good times to come once you and H have repaired your marriage) is the best healer of hurts. A strong emotional reaction from you tonight will just hurt the two of you further. Show him how much YOU have changed (Plan A! Plan A!), show him you can be trusted.

If he mentions his loss of feelings for you and his feelings for the OW, I would suggest gently taking responsibility. Tell him "I acknowledge my part in our marriage suffering. I've learned a lot about how to be a better spouse. You've probably seen some of these changes. I know we can regain what we've lost," or something along those lines. Don't lick the floor or anything, but be honest and take responsibility. The best thing to bring back a wandering spouse is the trust that the marriage CAN be repaired and the faithful spouse WILL do his/her part, too.

Remember your new-found strength and let that be your guide - you can do it!

GC,

They are right, no need to fret before you talk. It sounds like to me he is not really expecting anything (maybe hoping, not expecting). " We really need to get some things out, at least I do" tells me he is not expecting much from you except to listen to his side. and his side will of course be just that, his side

Email him back and say the day he gets back will be fine, but you can't talk to him until later. You set the time, not him, he's comming to you remember....I know its small but a subtle power play of sorts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AHHHH the ole anger tunnel.....btdt. I found I wasn't angry when I knew I had Let it GO. So I did not have anything the be angry about. Vent here, go on vent, vent, vent and oh did i mention vent?

The anger stuff will get in your way. Its real, don't deny it, or bury it. Vent it out, cope and move on, pass thru the tunnel, its short.....

You are the better person, you have grown in ways only God knows about. The last 18 months may not have gone the way you wanted, but I don't think they were totally wasted, especally if you learned anything.

Its OK to be nervous about the meeting with XH (XH because he has not been an H since he left) understandably you don't want to hurt again, who would? But decide, do you want you H back or not??? Do you want to commit to the M and do you want HIM to commit to M also. I know, boundries again....

BTW, another thought, You are NOT the person he left, he may be expecting the old you and have his thought geared for that. He is not the person he was when he left either. And the M you two had no longer exists, it is gone. The new one is yet to be created.....if the two of you decide to do so......

good luck

DRS

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by elivi:
Whatever happens, whatever he says, please try to stay calm and focused on your goal. Time (good times to come once you and H have repaired your marriage) is the best healer of hurts. A strong emotional reaction from you tonight will just hurt the two of you further. Show him how much YOU have changed (Plan A! Plan A!), show him you can be trusted.

If he mentions his loss of feelings for you and his feelings for the OW, I would suggest gently taking responsibility. Tell him "I acknowledge my part in our marriage suffering. I've learned a lot about how to be a better spouse. You've probably seen some of these changes. I know we can regain what we've lost," or something along those lines. Don't lick the floor or anything, but be honest and take responsibility. The best thing to bring back a wandering spouse is the trust that the marriage CAN be repaired and the faithful spouse WILL do his/her part, too.

Remember your new-found strength and let that be your guide - you can do it!<hr /></blockquote>Oh, I will try to keep up my strength, conversation will actually be tomorrow evening, doubt if I get any sleep tonight. I have told him that before, how much I have learned, it seemed to have fallen on deaf ears. I just don't think I can handle him being so emotionally down, especially since he seemed to be having all the fun, where was he this whole time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DesertReStart:
GC,

They are right, no need to fret before you talk. It sounds like to me he is not really expecting anything (maybe hoping, not expecting). " We really need to get some things out, at least I do" tells me he is not expecting much from you except to listen to his side. and his side will of course be just that, his side

Email him back and say the day he gets back will be fine, but you can't talk to him until later. You set the time, not him, he's comming to you remember....I know its small but a subtle power play of sorts... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AHHHH the ole anger tunnel.....btdt. I found I wasn't angry when I knew I had Let it GO. So I did not have anything the be angry about. Vent here, go on vent, vent, vent and oh did i mention vent?

The anger stuff will get in your way. Its real, don't deny it, or bury it. Vent it out, cope and move on, pass thru the tunnel, its short.....

You are the better person, you have grown in ways only God knows about. The last 18 months may not have gone the way you wanted, but I don't think they were totally wasted, especally if you learned anything.

Its OK to be nervous about the meeting with XH (XH because he has not been an H since he left) understandably you don't want to hurt again, who would? But decide, do you want you H back or not??? Do you want to commit to the M and do you want HIM to commit to M also. I know, boundries again....

BTW, another thought, You are NOT the person he left, he may be expecting the old you and have his thought geared for that. He is not the person he was when he left either. And the M you two had no longer exists, it is gone. The new one is yet to be created.....if the two of you decide to do so......

good luck

DRS<hr /></blockquote>you're right, time to divorce the old marriage (not legally) and remarry with a fresh start, I hope he sees it that way. BTW, your post has me crying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Awww.... Heres a tissue for you hun. You deserve a good cry with what you have been thru.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by going_crazy:
[QUOTE]I just don't think I can handle him being so emotionally down, especially since he seemed to be having all the fun, where was he this whole time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Well, if it was all fun and games for him, he wouldn't be moving out of her place now. Obviously, something has gotten through to him that she's not the perfect person he thought she was.

He's screwed up his marriage. He's lost/left this other person that he thought was his future. He deserves to spend some time depressed. <cough> Okay, maybe I should be a better person and not think that way, but you have to hit bottom sometimes before you can turn your life around.

Good luck! Take some deep breaths and try to stay calm. One of you should be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok, I've shot through the anger tunnel, utilized it to get 3 hours of yardwork done. Had lots of time to think doing that this afternoon.

I am going to try to stay calm tomorrow, and try to get through it without crying. He told me 3 weeks ago (soon after starting distancing), that he was sorry. He has told me that he is sorry alot of times since then. He has also told me that day that he has been miserable even though he has acted like he was happy. He told me that he was ashamed and embarassed by what he has done.

He also told me last weekend that he was very comfortable about his decision to leave OW, that he hasn't been that certain for anything in a long time.

I am going to try hard to Plan A (after he initiates contact). After thinking about it, I feel thats my best option. Since he has left OW and does not have needs met there, they are essentially Plan Bing each other. Well, Plan B makes you realize what needs that were getting met, right? So if they are going to Plan B each other, my best option is to Plan A to meet all of his needs (if I knew what the tops one are!) so he won't miss OW meeting his needs.

Does that make sense??

I just read Pepperbands post, I do not want to meet WH's SF need until gets tested for STD's. I guess I will have to wait until we decided to pursue the R to ask that?

[ August 15, 2002, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]

does anyone know of any good posts, articles on dealing with WS's withdrawal, I have SAA, but I wish it would have discussed it a little more.

GC,

I bet the yard looks really good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I remember times when I would do things just to burn off the stress and clear the thoughts. Once I got out the lawn mower, fixed it up ( it had been a while) and ready, then remembered we don't have any grass. We live in the Arizona desert with rock landscape for a yard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I sold the lawn mower to a relative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Realizing the old is gone can be rough, it involves a grieving just as much as tho there had been a tragic loss. Once when my WW and I were talking and she was essentially telling me she was gone for good (don't love you never really did sort of thing) she commented that I didn't look that upset. I told her I had already grieved and moved on... I had gone to acceptance stage and was able to let a lot of things go...

SH told me there are two types of love. Romantic and Caring. IMHO, when your XH left the romantic love stopped (or probably it stopped for him earlier ??) and you only had the caring love left. It kept you for almost 18 months....then you decided to distance yourself from him (stopped showing the caring love) and he started to see some things....like maybe you stopped caring??? and that he was going to have a real loss in his life, you. Hmmmm, maybe he is feeling some effect of losing his M also, grieving a little over that too?

I think you can believe him when he says he is sorry about what he has done. What you, and he, will discover is how much committment will come of it. Others have said you need to be strong now, that is very true. He is in withdrawal and won't really be able to see the level of determination and committment required, you may have to show him by example...

I have read several posts that really touched me, I cried. Being male that used to bother me because I was raised that men don't cry. I'd like to tear that chapter from the book:rolleyes: Now I know holding back tears is also denying and emotion or thought that should be recognized and thought over....when a post touches me I let it touch me....

Our family moring is getting started here, I hope the thoughts you get on the MB help....

GC, I really hope the best for you in you new life

DRS

thanks DesertRestart for your kind words.

Now, he wants to wait until tomorrow morning to talk!!

getting a little worried here, not for sure what to expect from conversation tomorrow. He emailed me this morning and said he would come tomorrow. I replied back and asked when he was coming and he responded back:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I am coming over first thing tomorrow morning. If you mean am I coming home,there are still a lot of things I want to discuss. <hr /></blockquote>So how do I take that one?? He doesn't sound pitiful like he did yesterday but kinda smartelechy (sp?)

Does it sound like he is still considering it but wants to iron things out first (which is a good thing?)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by going_crazy:
getting a little worried here, not for sure what to expect from conversation tomorrow. He emailed me this morning and said he would come tomorrow. I replied back and asked when he was coming and he responded back:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I am coming over first thing tomorrow morning. If you mean am I coming home,there are still a lot of things I want to discuss. <hr /></blockquote>So how do I take that one?? He doesn't sound pitiful like he did yesterday but kinda smartelechy (sp?)

Does it sound like he is still considering it but wants to iron things out first (which is a good thing?)<hr /></blockquote>I think is sounds EXACTLY like that. Good luck! stay calm, meditate, relax...

SC is right. Stay calm. The only thing I can add is, don't let him dictate the terms of his return home (if that is what discussion is about). Don't let him assume that this is his decision to make. At this point you have the right to be the one who sets most of the terms. Don't loose sight of that. Don't let him use you as his personal doormat. It may be a hard thing to do, but you must for your own well-being and self-respect.

Going crazy -- I just recently had two conversations with my WH that I never thought I could live through, but I did. We have been separated for almost 8 months and the A lasted 18 months. The A ended by OW in late April/early May.

Essentially these conversations were about how much he missed OW and how she made him feel. I was able to stay calm and not lovebust (by the grace of God I held my tongue) and I actually felt sorry for him. He cannot see what this has done to him. He cannot see the illusion that was the affair. He is in withdrawal. Very likely your WH is in withdrawal also. Do not expect much.

In June, my WH said he wanted to move home right after it sunk in that he was not going to have the relationship with the OW anymore. Two weeks later he did not want to move home. I got my hopes up too high in June. I told him that moving home and working on our M meant him going to IC and us going to MC and him figuring out a way to not work with the OW.

I am more realistic now. He could commit to none of these things. We have, however, been able to calmly discuss things and I am his friend. He is still not "in love" with me, but our relationship is much better than it was while the A was going on. Take things slowly. Don't expect too much too soon and maybe just maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

You can be calm. You can be patient and you can lovingly state your conditions for working on your marriage if he indicates he really wants to do this. Even if he says he misses OW or is still in love with her you can tell him "I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain and it's difficult for me to hear, but thank you for being honest"

Best of luck, patience and strength tomorrow.

GC,good luck tomorrow..stay strong, try not to react to whatever he has to say, remember " I am sorry that you feel that way". If he wants to return it must be on your terms, don't feel obligated to give an immediate answer.. I know you will do fine..
Dave

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spacecase:
I think is sounds EXACTLY like that. Good luck! stay calm, meditate, relax...<hr /></blockquote>Thanks Spacecase!! Easier said than done, right!! I hope he still has interest in coming home.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mgm:
don't let him dictate the terms of his return home<hr /></blockquote>If the discussion does get to that point, where we start discussing terms, my first terms that will need to be met is NC with OW and MC. I want him to write a NC letter to her also, its probably going to make him angry because he says he still "cares" for her, but he needs to make a decision on whether or not he will be totally committed to our marriage.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by unsureheart:
Going crazy -- I just recently had two conversations with my WH that I never thought I could live through, but I did. We have been separated for almost 8 months and the A lasted 18 months. The A ended by OW in late April/early May.

Essentially these conversations were about how much he missed OW and how she made him feel. I was able to stay calm and not lovebust (by the grace of God I held my tongue) and I actually felt sorry for him. He cannot see what this has done to him. He cannot see the illusion that was the affair. He is in withdrawal. Very likely your WH is in withdrawal also. Do not expect much.

In June, my WH said he wanted to move home right after it sunk in that he was not going to have the relationship with the OW anymore. Two weeks later he did not want to move home. I got my hopes up too high in June. I told him that moving home and working on our M meant him going to IC and us going to MC and him figuring out a way to not work with the OW.

I am more realistic now. He could commit to none of these things. We have, however, been able to calmly discuss things and I am his friend. He is still not "in love" with me, but our relationship is much better than it was while the A was going on. Take things slowly. Don't expect too much too soon and maybe just maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.

You can be calm. You can be patient and you can lovingly state your conditions for working on your marriage if he indicates he really wants to do this. Even if he says he misses OW or is still in love with her you can tell him "I'm sorry to hear that you are in pain and it's difficult for me to hear, but thank you for being honest"

Best of luck, patience and strength tomorrow.<hr /></blockquote>Unsureheart, I was reading through your posts last night, our hearts are aching together. I am trying my best to focus on the positive in this situation, WH has taken a large step forward in the right direction, and I'm sure that there will be a few steps back, but we just have to keep moving forward. Its the longest roller coaster I have ever been on and it has had way too many loops and turns. I just keep trying to tell myself that a couple of years for an awesome marriage will be worth it.
I also cried when I saw your response to your husband when he asked why you loved him. And you are so right. If I was standing on the outside looking in, I would have told him to get lost right away, you never know what you have until its gone. I did not know how much I loved WH and it has gave me patience (sometimes) and a deep faith in God. Your answer reminded me so much of 1 Corinthians 13:
13:4 Love is patient, love is kind, it is not envious. Love does not brag, it is not puffed up. 13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-serving, it is not easily angered, or resentful. 13:6 It is not glad about injustice, but rejoices in the truth. 13:7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davepr:
GC,good luck tomorrow..stay strong, try not to react to whatever he has to say, remember " I am sorry that you feel that way". If he wants to return it must be on your terms, don't feel obligated to give an immediate answer.. I know you will do fine..
Dave<hr /></blockquote>Thank you so much davepr, how did you do it? How do you deal with the withdrawal?

Hi Going_Crazy,
I have some suggestions for you.

You have gotten many good ones but here's two to think about.

I would not talk where you live, and here's why. If it gets bad, you won't have much of an out with out one or the other doing a big LB. I would choose a netural location like a park or something.

The other - if things get bad, you can just say something like "I can see I am not ready for this talk yet, I have to go before it gets any worse." and leave.

In other words, give yourself an out.

I hope things go well for you. I agree that it is you that must set boundries for him to return. If he has some for you, perhpas you can do them, perhaps not. You don't have to agree to anything he says. Remember that everything has two sides, and you may learn something from what he has to say about you. I suggest you look at it as a chance to learn, and resoulve not to be angry even if he blames you for things.

Be careful, weigh your words. Take a long time to answer if you need to. Don't say things you can't live with just to make him happy.

Go for it,

SS

[ August 16, 2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by still seeking:
I would not talk where you live, and here's why. If it gets bad, you won't have much of an out with out one or the other doing a big LB. I would choose a netural location like a park or something.
<hr /></blockquote>I never thought about the neutral location, thats a good idea however we need to do few things around the house.

You go, GC!
Don't be too eager to get him home. He's coming, you don't have to worry about that; make sure he comes willing to meet the conditions YOU need for YOU.
You'll be fine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spacecase:
Don't be too eager to get him home. He's coming, you don't have to worry about that<hr /></blockquote>You're pretty sure of that huh??

Just printed out H's long post, 52 pages!! I started reading it on the computer screen and was crossing my eyes. so funny how everything he told his wife, my WH has told me too. I will reading before I go to sleep tonight, gain more insight into my WH to hopefully understand him.

WH will be over at about 9AM tomorrow (Sat). If you read this post, PLEASE say a quick prayer for us. For us to be strong and to have wisdom.

GC, not sure what time zone you are in but it is 9:15 EDT, I am praying that things are going well for you. I do agree with SC,he is coming home,maybe he is not ready to come home now but he is on the road or rollercoaster to come home. My W had two false recoveries where she moved home.... I did not have good boundries setup. the third time was the real time, I had the boundries that I needed, and the W from OM were minimum. Good luck.
Dave

Going Crazy,
We are all praying for you. I'm praying that your WH will be ready for recovery!! Let us know how the talk goes.
KK

jumped on here real quick its 8:45 Central time, should be here in 15 minutes. Davepr and KK, thanks so much for your thoughts and prayers. I read thru the "diary 0f a madman" post last night before I went to sleep...LONG, but good info. Depending on how the talk goes I may even give it to him, so he will know that what he is going through, others have been there, and have had a successful marriage. Again, I will see how it goes. i am so nervous right now. made sure that I'm looking really good this morning!!! Cleaned some of the house last night, have some candles burning, trying to make it look "inviting" I guess, have everything but that apple pie baking in the oven!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL!!!

Hi GC,

You are probably talking with him right now. Hope all works out well for you.

Prayers.

DRS.

Ps What was that post from " H " that you printed off?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DesertReStart:
What was that post from " H " that you printed off?<hr /></blockquote>here's the link:
Diary of a Madman (WS) by "H"

WH came over about 9:30, he seemed very quiet. He went upstairs and was putting alot of his stuff away that he had brought over earlier. I didn't want to pressure him so I just let him be. A little later he came back downstairs, started looking at the newspaper, then he turned the radio down and here's kinda how the conversation went:

WH: I'm just going through a really tough time right now, thats what I really wanted to say.
Me: Is there anything else you would like to say.
WH: No, please be patient.
Me: OK.
WH: I just really need to have a clear head. Do you really think that we can have a good marriage and be happy?
Me: I want to make you happy, and I apologize for my part of the breakdown of our marriage.
WH: (didn't say anything, just gave me a big hug).

We left a little after that to grab something to eat. While we are eating, we was talking about local sports teams and getting tickets. He said that he wanted to get some season tickets so it would give us something to do together. I then said, "I'll me meeting your recreational companionship need". It was weird, he probably didn't know what I was talking about!! He just said, yea, you are right. I then mentioned that there are 10 top needs in marriages and how marriages can break down because the spouse is not meeting the other spouses top needs. He looked interested in the conversation, I didn't want to push or educate him, so I kind of made a joke out of it. and said "This author says we need to meet our partners needs, and men's top one is usually SF, (we didn't have a problem, there), then WH told me that wasn't his top one, his is sports outings. (Which reflects the recreatonal companionship!).

We got home from eating, and he jumped on the computer because he wanted to check out different ticket packages. He told me to call and get more information, etc.

Anyway, I had printed out the "Madmans Diary" post (link above), the acronyms list, Harleys infidelity articles, emotional needs questionaire, and stuck them inside SAA. I had that book lying around. WH saw it and says "Is that the book that you were telling me about?" I said yes. (I also had His needs, her needs with it). I mentioned to him that they have helped me alot, and maybe he could get some insight as well. He was pulling out the different printouts that I had there, asked me what they were, I told him. So , I didn't push the books on him. A long time ago, in the past, he would have said "I don't need a da** book". He took them, I didn't even ask him, but just had them "conveniently" laying around.

He then left, golf outing with the guys, gave me a good hug, a "real" kiss.

I did not want to bring up any harsh boundaries yet, I wanted him to to hopefully read the books and understand why these boundaries have to be in place. Also, he is in withdrawal, and from Madman's post, I need to be loving and not pushy.

I am going to try to take things slow, yes, boundaries will be set, but I did not want to do too much too soon and cause a huge LB.

[ August 17, 2002, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: going_crazy ]

Hey, that sounds pretty decent!

In a lot of ways, your situation reminds me a bit of a woman - "iffer" I think - who posts on the Divorce Busting forums... Her H slowly made his way back, much as it sounds yours is!

(It's kinda like catching a monkey, no? Slowly... Patiently...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by J.R.:
(It's kinda like catching a monkey, no? Slowly... Patiently...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>sometimes I think its more like a fish, you reel them in, then the stupid line breaks!!

Feeling that way a little bit myself today.

Thanks you for your input. Looks like you've got quite a drama yourself. Probably beyond mine.

Thank you,

Hoping

So glad he is trying for you, just got in a bit ago and have already argued with ws about kids and ows.... wow, fun. I need to let it lie... I want the truth and it is not coming out of his mouth.

I am so very tired of all of this mess, as I know you are... I am really hoping you are heading for recovery. May be- you can take up golf, if you haven't already?

Hugs, HONEY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Honey:
May be- you can take up golf, if you haven't already?<hr /></blockquote>welcome back!! I took golf lessons about 3 years ago, I was doing ok at first then for some reason couldn't hold the club right and was actually hurting when I swung, improved towards the end. WH even took me out on a 9hole then but I whined because it hurt. So I am thinking about taking classes again. I know WH doesn't have the patience to teach me, especially after the one and only time he took me!!

GC, sounds like things went fairly well, I am happy for you, take is slow, you are right about the boundries, don't set them until he is wanting to come home, sounds like he still needs more time to figure things out. Of course, you still may need some boundries in your day to day, but none of the major boundries as far as a return. When he wants to return, they you set the conditions for a return.. Keep up the good work.
Dave

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davepr:
you are right about the boundries, don't set them until he is wanting to come home<hr /></blockquote>thanks, I had a feeling that if I brought them up too soon, it would look pushy, I wanted to wait until his state of mind is alot less fragile.

I am glad that we talked today instead of yesterday, it gave me time to read the Diary of a Madman's post!

WH did tell me that he had a hard week but is starting to feel a little better. I wanted to tell him he is in withdrawal, but he would not understand what I was saying and could be seen as an LB. Thanks goodness he likes to read, I hope he reads these soon. IF we choose recovery, we gotta do it the Harley way!

I hope God gives him the strength to get through the withdraws and work on his marriage. The Harleys say the clock resets to zero anytime there is any contact with OP, so hopefully he can go several weeks without any contact and become stonger. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Dave

Hi Goingcrazy:

I've been following your thread for a while now and wanted to say that I feel your WH is being as honest with you as the situation will allow...he's not trying to gloss everything over...his turmoil is apparent...and you are doing so great....accepting that he will be in withdrawal for some period of time and not trying to rush him...and I know this is hard.

I'm a firm believer that recovery from infidelity is an evolutionary process...slow, painstaking and filled with unexpected spurts and stops...and by our reactions we limit or halter our own recovery from same. But of course you are doing fine...just keep up the good work...and don't let the ups and downs discourage you.

Go girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GC, I think you did great! and I think you are exactly right in waiting for him to say he wants to come home before you talk about what he has to do for that.

Good for you! You did great!

I hope you are having a great sunday, on my way to church right now with os, ys with dad.... be glad you dont have the turmoil of draggging kids through this mud. I am so glad things are on the up and up for you... I know they are going to get better and better. DOnt push, as hard as it may be not to. Hugs, H

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm so happy that everything went well.

I can imagine that you H was just as afraid as you were. He is telling you that he has made a BIG mistake, just not speaking out the words. Be prowd of him because many don't ge to this point. Show and tell him that you can understand him. Make sure to let him know that you admire him for the strength that he is bringing up and that you are prowd of him.

Don't misunderstand me. Don't crawl. Just give him these feelings and any others he will really need in order to think positively about you and get over the withdrawel. I'm sure that the last time he saw OW it probably wasn't very positive and dreamy.
You can do this now, just that you are educated and you know about the EN'S. OW doesn't. Take advantage and go for it!!!!!!!!!GO!GO!GO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You are fantastic and let him know this.
He is going to be the happiest man on earth and when his mind is "clear" you will have the best H on earth.

Do you have the possibility to get away for 2 or 3 days??? This is what we did right after D-D. This brought back alot of connection.

take good care of yourself

BB
I'm sooooooo happy for you!!!!!!I've actually got tears in my eyes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You did an awesome job!! You should be very proud of yourself! As others have said, remember to take it slow and set boundaries. Also, keep in mind that this is a roller coaster ride and be cautious on the ride up. Be prepared for the possibility of crashing ride down! I have been there and know how horrible the ride down can be. It is hard to keep a balance of keeping yourself open and protecting yourself at the same time. But you can do it!!
It is such a positive sign that he took the books! I am so happy for you! Keep us posted!
BH

I'm really thinking of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
hope everything is ok.

take care and stay calm

BB

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by davepr:
I hope God gives him the strength to get through the withdraws and work on his marriage. <hr /></blockquote>Davepr: As always, thank you for your encouragement and kind words, you may not realize it, but you helped me so much when I was getting ready to give up, you and your wife have found the light at the end of tunnel, hope to see ya there soon. I have been praying this whole time for God to give him strenghth and wisdom, and I know that I have to trust God that he has his perfect timing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by buffy:
I'm a firm believer that recovery from infidelity is an evolutionary process...slow, painstaking and filled with unexpected spurts and stops...and by our reactions we limit or halter our own recovery from same<hr /></blockquote>Buffy: I agree, and I have uncovered a patience trait that I never thought I would have all through this. I have refused to give up (came close a few times), but just have this "feeling" that it would be okay.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Seahorse:
Go girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Seahorse: Thanks for the encouragement!! How are you doing? I saw in another post that you have been ill? I hope everything is OK?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Spacecase:
 I think you are exactly right in waiting for him to say he wants to come home before you talk about what he has to do for that<hr /></blockquote>Spacecase: thanks, I wasn't sure if I was doing the right thing, but I wanted to give him time to make the decision if he wants this marriage or not, which I haven't got a firm committment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , hopefully read SAA so he can "educate" himself. I was afraid if I pushed too fast, he would run scared with his tail between his legs. If he does decide he wants this marriage too work, I will then lay my conditions on the table, if he refuses, then I know he's not ready.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by blondblossom:
 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Make sure to let him know that you admire him for the strength that he is bringing up and that you are prowd of him.
Don't misunderstand me. Don't crawl. Just give him these feelings and any others he will really need in order to think positively about you and get over the withdrawel. I'm sure that the last time he saw OW it probably wasn't very positive and dreamy.
Do you have the possibility to get away for 2 or 3 days??? This is what we did right after D-D. This brought back alot of connection.<hr /></blockquote>Blondblossom: thank you so much for being here,it means so much for us BS's to have those in recovery coming back, you have been there, and you understand. thank you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I did mention to him at one point yesterday that I apologized for not telling him everyday (before he left me) how much he meant to me, and that he was the best thing in my life. He looked at me kinda weird, and said that he was the worst thing that could have happened to me than gave me a hug. Hopefully that was a confidence booster. Thinking back, I really did alot of LB's (not to excuse the affair). I took him for granted, I never thought he would ever leave me. I was disrepectful with alot of his ideas and opinions, always thought mine were better, etc.
If he does decide to come home, we definitely will go for a weekend getaway. Maybe got to Gatlinburg and get a cabin in the woods or something where there is no one around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by brokenhearted:
It is such a positive sign that he took the books<hr /></blockquote>Brokenhearted: I just hope he reads them!! Fortunately, he loves to read, I'm just hoping that he was just taking them to please me!

I guess I was all worked up about our heart to heart talk that wasn't really heart to heart at all. I am going to try to take it slow, let him iniate the conversations, and try not to push. It is going to be rough, because we have so many things to discuss and talk through

GC -- I just logged in for the first time since I saw your post that he was on his way over. I think you handled yourself well and the fact that he is talking future with the sports tickets is obviously a sign that he wants a future with you. Keep us posted on your progress. -- ush

Hi GC, Keep up the patience, I know how hard it is... you are quite an inspiration. Thanks for all of your support... divorcecare starts here aug. 28n and I hope to be in the class. I am sooo tired of all this mess... and tired of the game palying.. keep being loving, yet strong... keep the distance if you need to. Honey