I no longer suspect, I am 99.9999999999% sure

Thought I would start a new thread, other one is getting long.

To continue.........

Today, I am trying to understand why? I know, give up.

H had a hockey meeting a week ago or so. He calls me up, and says next year we (him and I) are going to put together a list of first aid stuff that should be in each puck bag. Also, we are going to talk to the coaches in a meeting about what they should and should not do if a player gets injured.

Does not make sense to me. Here I am, the wife, and he acts like I am his wife. Makes plans that include me as if we are this great couple that works together, and he has his girlfriend who he does fun stuff with. He never wants to do anything with me except a movie now and then.

I'm tired of trying to make ends meet, I'm tired of seeing transactsions for dinner or lunch on the bank statement, I'm tired of being the you know what because someone has to keep a handle on the money. I'm tired of the excuses he makes for why we don't do anything with his friends, or my friends for that matter. He does not want to. He has some dumb idea that we should keep these aspects of our lives seperate from our marriage. Of course I know that is because he wants to have OW with when he does stuff with his friends.

Tuesdays night ball, I can come to that. They all know about me, but don't know about OW.

I wondered to myself, what would all these parents think if they knew their kids coach was cheating on his wife? No, I am not going to tell just to ruin him.

A friend questioned how would he react if one of her sons played in the same ball leaque and was at the field when H was. That would be a shocker.

No, they would not do that. It is a good idea though.

Link to old thread
Strongly suspect

[ March 21, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

My birthday is Sunday, I get to spend it, serving SOS breakfast. I don't mind, it is to raise money for the food shelf.

What I mind about is that H signed me up without asking me. Are we going to do anything else? or is he going to call OW like he did on my last birthday. We went out to dinner. I found out he called her bacause I opened the cell bill that came in April. Happy Birthday to me, great present. It is what every wife wants to see, her husband calling the OW while they are out to dinner. What did I do to be treated so special. (insert extreeeeeeeme sarcasm)

I've been wondering if I should ask him to move to the upstairs bedroom. If I did that, I would have to explain myself. Maybe I will move to the upstairs bedroom. I will still have to explain.

I wish there was a way to do Plan B and live in the same house.

I've considered telling him what I know, and asking him to stay on as is while I finish school and pass boards. If I did that, would he then flaunt it in my face? I could not live with that.

Who is he ashamed of? Me? her? his R with her?

[ March 21, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

He is simply having the best of both worlds right now Sue. He has some people convinced he is some upstanding husband. Some men seem to never want to grow up and face responsibility.

I can tell this is getting to be too much for you too keep quiet about. I don't blame you, I don't know how you've managed for so long not to blow your top.

Being a WW, I know that the affair can become addicting and very hard to end. It becomes a method of escapism from the everyday stresses of life.

I was thinking maybe you should tell him you want to move to the other bedroom and when he asks why just look him dead straight in the eye and say do you really think I'm that stupid? I'm more aware of the "real" you than you are aware of.

I know you want him to love you and come back to you but you can't appear needy at this point. It will only end up like the other night when you cried and told him you didn't feel he loved you.

It's impossible to say at this point if he will re-dedicate himself to the M down the road and rid himself of the OW for good. I know it has gone on for some time with this particular OW. I guess you have to ask yourself if you've had enough, and do you really want to continue. You will probably worry a lot that he's taken up with her again in the future.

It's a TOUGH decision, one you have to make for your own sanity and happiness. Sue, don't let them rob you of what you truly deserve.

Thanks- You voiced what I have been not wanting to acknowledge, not yet. He has been with her for so long, is there a connection there?

I will give what you said some real thought. I know I have to. Last night he was trying to be all nice with me.

I'll be back later. I have to go get taxes done. I hope we have a decent refund. Savings is almost gone. Enough to get us through next month. If he is not back to work by the end of April we are going to be in trouble money wise.

When he was laid off, they told him that he should be back to work by April or May. I monitor the union Jobline, he has moved up about 20 spots on the list since January. But spring is just starting, so construction should be picking up soon and he should be back to work. If not, I graduate in May, I can always get a second job. If he is not back to work, I cannot afford to have him leave. I can't afford to have him leave until I pass boards and start working as an RN, which probably won't be until July or August.

Sometimes I wonder if H is feeling guilty about A. He always makes comments about me having an A, (he tries to make is sound like a joke). Is he trying to tell me and does not no how? Is he trying to justify his actions. The guy who does our taxes works at my work. He and I worked together 20 years ago when we were in High school and college. We both attended the local community college. Four years ago, after our D was born, we ran into each other at work. We got together a couple of times for lunch and caught up on stuff from back when. That is when I found out he has a tax business. So, he has been doing our taxes ever since. He says ours our the simpilest that he has to do, so generally instead of charging me, I take him to lunch as payment. H has always been invited to go with to lunch and when taxes are done. H always refused. I leave his address available so he knows where I am. Every year, H comments that I am having an A with this man. He tries to sound joking, and maybe he is, and maybe he is feeling guilty about his own A, that he is trying to make it soundl like I have a onnce a year thing going on with our tax man so he can justify his own A.

Who knows, but he lives 45 min. away so I have to get going .

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sue with hope:
I wish there was a way to do Plan B and live in the same house.<hr /></blockquote>"Tough Love" ... set your boundry and let him know the condition to get back or get his privilage as H ... until then you treat him as WH. Stop cooking and washing his laundry etc ... Stop having s3x and give him affection to WH ... Just ignore WH as a non being ...

But you have to have stomach as stong as Orchid !.

Just my 2¢. -rh-

I need to get my taxes done too. I'm going to hit up my FIL to do it. He probably does feel guilty about the A. I know I did when I was in mine. I would have moments where I felt like total scum of the earth, but I would get a message or call from OM and I'd be right back in it.

How is your son doing? Has your H been getting along with him lately?

As far as treating him like a WH, it will be much easier for me to do after I finish school and I know that I can financially support me and the kids alone if I have to.

H and OS getting along, up and down.

Well, here is how my birthday went.

We got up, went to American Legion to serve a Food shelf benefit breakfast. I didn't mind doing that, after all, it was for a good cause. We left there and went to the VFW. H had to stop at gas station, I checked his cell phone for dialed calls. He snucked out of the breakfast and called her. Well, Happy Birthday to me too. I told him I didn't think we should stay at the VFW, his mom was expectign us to come get the kids. He calls, leaves a message to call me. Then he joins a cribbage tournament. I don't play cribbage, dont' know how, so I sat there for 3 hours watching him play cribbage. I almost took the car and went home, but he had no way home so I didn't. I didn't want his father or one of the others driving him home after all the beer they were all drinking. We are now home, I'm going to help OS with a paper. H just left for the store. Or is he meeting her. I don't really care. I am more upset that I missed spending the day with my kids.

Things are going to start getting really busy for me, so I will be able to avoid WH without much difficulty.

Redhat, I like your advise.

Sue,

We have to concetrate what matter to us and what we could control ... we have to safe our sanity within all of this selfishness. Yes, we have to be realistic in term of time frame. This is your time frame and by then hope your H will de-fog or else will loose you forever.

-rh-

That piece of $%$#... I'm so upset for you. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I think he realized he might have messed up. After we got home, OS and I sat down to work on his research paper. WH went shopping. He came back with a cake, and the makings for a nice dinner. It was nice that he thought of that, it would have been nicer if he would have realized how insensitive his behavior was earlier in the day.

After dinner, he disappears again. Kids said the car was gone. I can only guess why, and I'm probably right. I don't want to ruin what is left of today, so I am not going to check his phone. There is point in it.

My tax man, even though he is very distrustful, his wife of 12 years cheated on him, they divorced, he said he is loving the single life. I don't think I will. I was not ready to settle down until I was in my late 20's. I spent most fo my 20's doing what I wanted, when I wanted and answered to know one. It is overrated in my opinion. I'm ready to be married and stay married, as long as it is the right man.

Well, I need to concentrate on my presentation that is due on 4/15, preceptorship, journal entries, case studies and finally state boards. I think that should keep me busy. I can always go to the library if I have to.

He was not always like this. The man I met, was working in a fast food resturaunt, he was nice, considerate, thoughtful, sensitive. Where did he go? He was the person I fell in love with. Sometimes I see bits and pieces of him. More and more I don't. Was it all an act to get me hooked? Is this the real him, or is the fog him?

Well, I have to get to bed. I've been up since 4AM. I'm tired.

[ March 23, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

H has been very nice to me today. I'll enjoy it while it lasts. He actually called me to let me know where he was when he had a change of plans. That is not normal. Guilt probably.

Sue,
Do you cry alot?

Hi DS,

Sometimes, sometimes not. I try not to cry at home. When I get myself focused on my goal it distracts me from my problems, and I don't cry about it.

I only cry when I feel the pain of the situation.

Hi Sue,
You know a lot, but sometimes I get the feeling there is a peice missing in this puzzle you are working on.

I hope you are meeting your goals. I wish you didn't have such stress while trying to finish school and everything else, but it proves I was right about you being above average.

Try not to kill him outright when you drop the bomb on him in a few months. I wish I could be there just to watch. You will have a lot of leverage then, and you will control what happens. I just hope he will choose happiness and not misery. I think happiness is a given for you if you continue learning and growing.

I believe you will do well. ( I know I said that before, you'll just have to put up with it!)

SS

Sue,
Wanting to know how you are doing...thought Id bump your thread, in case you have time to check in.

It was *your* thread that has inspired me. My problems are no where near yours, but your grace under pressure and strength is a daily reminder to me that I can get over what I know and save my marriage.

(Even if I personally would like to see you deck your husband and find a man who could fulfill your Ens)

SS

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Try not to kill him outright when you drop the bomb on him in a few months. I wish I could be there just to watch. You will have a lot of leverage then, and you will control what happens. I just hope he will choose happiness and not misery. I think happiness is a given for you if you continue learning and growing.
<hr /></blockquote>I could sell tickets. Maybe I could retire on the profits <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You know a lot, but sometimes I get the feeling there is a peice missing in this puzzle you are working on. <hr /></blockquote>Will I like the puzzle piece when I find it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />but it proves I was right about you being above average. <hr /></blockquote>Thanks, my grades may be average, I don't have much time to study. I fly by the seat of my pants.

MOJ
<blockquote>quote:<hr />It was *your* thread that has inspired me. My problems are no where near yours, but your grace under pressure and strength is a daily reminder to me that I can get over what I know and save my marriage.<hr /></blockquote>Thanks. I do what I have to, even though it is frustrating. Honestly, it is the love I have for my children that keeps me hanging in. I would not have done this this long if it was not for them.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />(Even if I personally would like to see you deck your husband and find a man who could fulfill your Ens) <hr /></blockquote>LOL, sometimes I feel the same way

Before I can call it quits to my M, I have to know I tried everything to make it work, especially for the kids.

On a brighter note, my Daughters recital is in June. I think we pick up costumes this Sat. I know I have to do some sewing.

I totally understand about wanting to do everything possible. That is exactly where I am now.

I have such good memories of our time here before I found out last month...that it helps.

Now the trust issue is harder than the forgiving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Keep hanging in. We are all here for you!

(((((((Sue))))))),

I have been checking on you from time to time -- been pretty busy lately. I am sorry to see things are the same for you.

Just wanted to let you know there are many people here who care about you and have been inspired by your strength. Keep focused on your goals -- the end is in sight. You H will need to make some decisions soon and stop being a cake eater.

You have grown over the last year and are a better person because of it.

FHO

Hi FHO and everyone else

Thanks for everyones kind words and words of encouragement.

I know, the end is near, soon changes will occur. I just have to hang in there and stay focused.

Right now, I have to be quick. About to head off to the library, I have to work on my presentation that is due on 4/15, a test next week, a test today (today's test does not count. It is to determine what areas we are weak in for boards) I will be back later

I AM SCREAMING. That felt good.

OS calls me at work, crying, dad in background "why are you crying like a baby". (isn't he just a gem of a guy)(don't forget to insert sarcasm). OS wants me to divorce dad again. OS is worried that dad will hurt his YS(younger sister in this case, otherwise she is YD for younger daughter). YS took cereal into the living room. (she isn't supposed to, but normally H does not notice these things, and lets them get away with it). OS says to me that dad told her "if she does not put it back he will spank her" This is when OS started crying. OS says "if dad spanks her like he spanks us, it will hurt really bad, she is too little for that" I felt a combination of pride for OS, he was worried about his baby sister, and anger at WH because he has so much fear instilled in OS that he is worrying about his baby sister. I ask OS to tell me what is going on. "I can't, I will get whipped". "dad will beat us with the belt". I asked "has dad ever hit you will a belt?" OS says "no". I told him if it ever happens call me right away. I told my H that you cannot ever use an object to spank a child with. Honestly, I think my WH is more of hot air than action, but for some reason, my oldest is very afraid of him. My oldest is also more sensitive, where as MS is sensitive, but hides it very well, acts like he does not care, when he really does.

OS also said, that dad is nicer when I am around because he knows he has to be. He knows I will divorce him if he isn't. I think the real reason is, when I am around, he does not do anything with the kids, and leave everything to me. My kids are really good kids, I want to keep them that way. MIL, says to me the other day, you know, OS is very controlling, just like his dad and his dad's dad. OS is not controlling. He has a strong will, and will not be controlled. He cannot be manipulated. There is a difference between having a strong will and being controlling. OS has alot of anger issues, and unfortunately lashes out at his younger brother and sister. He has not done anything that I have to worry about as far as them being in harms way. He only lashes out when I am around. I think that is because he knows I will stop him. I wish I could take the next 2 months off of work and be home for the kids. This really stinks. I feel like I am letting them down for my own desires. I know in the long run, my finishing school in best for all of us, but what sort of damage is being done now? Gotta go and call and see if things are better.

I have wondered if this is a case of OS playing us against each other, but it is not always. WH does not follow the counseling plan that we have agreed upon for OS's counseling. WH, yells at OS while I am on the phone with OS trying to help with OS homework.

I know WH loves the kids, he has alot to learn about parenting. He has not had a good example of what a father is. But that is no excuse for him to not learn.

Well, things have calmed down, kids are laughing. OS needs help with homework, but needs me there. I told him to ask his dad. OS says he will not help, he said he was not going to help us with anything. I told him to ask for help, this is homework. OS puts phone down, I think he forgot about me. It sounds like WH is helping OS with homework and other two are goofing around. I just wish H would find ways to get results without all the yelling. I know, sometimes I have to, but they are not afraid of me. He never should have let the kids learn that they can get away with stuff from the start, and now he expects them to do things the right way. Go figure

wELL.. that is a big queston for me right now ( i'm new, just found out yesterday, thugh have really known for about 4 months now - had lots of evidence). Anyway, do you tell his firends, family, children?? He wants to go to counselling and wants to work on our marriage. We have been married for 19 years (dated in high school). I don't know who to talk to about this as our friends are married and I'm not sure I want anyone to know. It would really ruin his image and integrity. Secretly, I wish everyone knew what an [censored] he really has been. Any advice??

Hi Stated

Welcome to MB, I don't have any advice for you. I am one who believes that you don't cover for them, but you don't need to take out a front page ad in the newspaper (as much as you would like to). I have told my friends, and his brother and mother, I only told them because I needed their help in not enabling this A. I knew they would agree because they have major issues with infidelity. They know I don't want to ruin H and I want to try to make it work, so they want to help me in this.

I suggest you start a post of your own, that way you will get a variety of replies instead of just my suggestion. Right now, I don't trust my ability to pick out a good goldfish. Your post could easily get lost in here.

Good luck

Well, I think I am past the point of no return. I don't know if I care or not about my M.

Last night, I'm talking to OS, I asked where his dad was. He says he is outside talking on his phone. As OS is telling me this, H walks in the door. H tells OS he was not on his phone, that he was holding his ear because his jaw hurt. OS tells H, I saw you on your phone. H yells at OS, to go to bed, if he is not goibg to finish his homework. OS says goodnight and goes to bed. H calls a few minutes later. I know he was checking to see if I believed OS or not. I believed OS. I didn't say a word to H. Why? What would be the point? He would deny it to me too? So, just to verify my suspicions, I check the phone when I get home, (H tried to hide it). Sure enough, he called her and the time was the same time as when I was talking to OS.

Now H wants to go up north to help a friend fix his garage. I don't really believe it. You know what, I don't really care if H is going up with her. Right now, the way I feel, she can have his lies, she can have is verbal and emotional abuse, she can have his overspending, she can have his controlling ways. I don't need it in my life. I'm more concerned about how will I finish my presentation if he is gone and cannot watch the kids. I am just numb over it all. Maybe I'm not numb, I am feeling nothing, nothing at all. No anger, no hurt, nothing. I think my M just died. Maybe she is not with, but I really don't care one way or the other.

He got all crappy with me, when I expressed my dislike for him doing this, and at that moment, I decided I didn't care if he went or not. I don't care at all. I'm tired of this, I'm tired of trying and making very little progress. Why don't they live together, get married and he can cheat on her. I'm not sure, but I think that would make me very happy. (I am getting very cynical, I need a break from everything).

(((Sue)))
I think many of us here were probably thinking the same thing- that at some point you would feel unable to continue this.

Against my own personal feelings about your H, Im going to point out something-

Remember, you are Plan A-ing and have just a short amount of time to go. NOw, also take into account that HE has no idea that you've been on to him all this time. Once you give him the chance to actually choose, he may surprise you. Right now his fog is so thick he doesnt even see how obvious he is being. I think this is what pisses me off so much- its like he thinks you are stupid (my husband pointed it out to me as well last night when I was sharing your story with him).

Do you have *any* friends or family who could watch the kids for a few hours this weekend so you can work on your presentation??? Or is your OS old enough for you to maybe give him some kind of small payment for keeping your kids busy? Could you rent a couple movies and have them sit for a wehile and watch them? Or ask them to sit in their rooms for some quiet time to help you out? Our kids can be incredible when they are told you need their help.

I also hope you can let your OS know that you know he was telling you the truth. It will probably make him feel better.

I'm suffering a mental block, so I thought I would pop over here as a break

The kids were at Grandmas until she had to go to work, so that helped some. Daughter is watching a movie and boys are playing Yu-gi-oh. I told them, as long as there is no arguing they can stay up a little later today. So, they have been as good as gold.

You are right, he thinks he is pulling one over on me. I told him a long time ago, that I would always know if he was cheating. He didn't believe me.

I'll see how thing go after I finish school. Maybe after I tell him I know, he will do the NC and everything.

OS knows, I told him. I also told him that honesty is a quality to be admired. He really is a good boy. Sometimes we have issues, and it will not get better. I still have teen years to look forward to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Just remember, you are so close to getting to your goal. Don't allow your H to screw up your focus.
((SUE))

Not only am I 99.9% sure, but I am 99.9% sure that both are sociaopathic with histrioninc tendencies. I am only sad because he took away from me so much of my life without a thought. I would never let him come back now...I would always be afraid and disgusted by a man who has gone to the lengths that he has gone to and was able to look me in the eye and look at himself in the mirror without any guilt or remorse. But when I got a little gander if her, I knew then why he was able to pull it off. Because she has the "Denis" personality that he so voeted and envied but could never achieve. You know what? I only want to see him one more time as they are pulling him through the prison gates at Lawson SMS.......Yes, I standalone!!!!!

Hi Sue,
I hate to do this, but we need to have a serious discussion.

Things have not been easy for you, but you manage to keep things light most of the time and you have moved on with your goal of finishing school. For a long time I figured you would make it with no problem and you seemed to do well with coping with H and his problems. ( Problems- isn't that a nice way of discussing it. Oh well, on with this.)

Lately, your highs have not been as high, and your lows have more often and lower. I am worried that you may get to graduation and just tell him to get lost. You have been here long enough to know that if the discontent goes on too long then often people go right to plan D without doing the intermeadiate steps. I worry about this for you.

I wonder if it would be better for you to start some kind of discussion with him now to decrease the danger of just letting it go later.

Something along the lines of: "I know you are seeing someone else, I am not going to live with it long term, and you need to begin thinking about what you are going to do." and then just leave him to think about it. He knows you are about finished with school, he can figure out what that means as far as your ability to get along without him.

I would not suggest you try and get some kind of decision or commitment from him now. I just think that continued contact and you not being able to do or say anything ( for fear of what may happen) is taking down the old love bank at an alarming rate. I think you would do much better if it was out in the open and being worked on.

After watching you for some months, I think you could pull it off without killing him. I don't think you should go much beyond a small statement. I suspect he will say something like "What are you talking about?" and act surpprised. You already know, so you can tell him that he doesn't need to pretend, and that you expect more from him as yor husband and that you will be thinking about what YOU will do. Then just walk away. At that point he will have to think about what he will do. If he continues to disrespect you, you already know what will happen, so it's not like you need to wonder what you will do.

Am I off track here?

I hate to see things get worse and worse and you not be able to address them. I am afraid by the end of May it will be do late, in fact, I worry that it is almost to late now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As always, this is your thread, I am just here to offer ideas and support. When I said it seemed like a peice of the puzzle was missing, I was thinking along these lines, I felt unease about how things were going but I didn't know what to say about it. Now I have thought a little more and expressed my fears to you.

So, these are just suggestions. You have the right to do things how you see fit, and you don't have to explain your reasons, or apoligize for them. I'll try and support you in whatever you do, I just worry. OK?

SS

Hi SS - you are so good about expressing what I am avoiding.

I know I have wondered if I will even make it at this rate.

Our dog go lose today. H is blaming me. I was not feeling well, so maybe I didn't put him on the chain when I let him out. I don't really remember. I know I picked up the chain, opened the latch, it is possible that I didnt' put in on right. Our dog is at the pound. It will cost over 100.00 to get him back.

We will, he has been with us for 4 years.

I'll come back tomorrow, hopefully I will be feeling better.

Deleted post. Realizing by the post below that you want to stay no matter what.

I'll pray for your strength.

[ March 31, 2003, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: bhf1111 ]

Sue, You have my admiration and respect. Making preparations so that you can legimately take care of children when care from their father could easily be in question if the marriage were over is not only intelligent, but the sacrifices that you are making (vulnerability to judgments like the response that preceded mine, for example) sometimes probably make you question yourself and your own sanity.

Stay the course. One of the best things my SAnon sponsor ever told me to do was to prepare to be financially self-sufficient for the sake of my son and myself, in the event that recovery wasn't an option for my husband or my marriage.

Love, Kayla

[ March 31, 2003, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]

I didn't see the response before yours, sounds like it might have been a good thing.

I know I am doing the right thing for my kids and myself. It is very frustrating to keep going

If my M fails, I know H will pay the CS, because I would have it taken out of his paycheck. If I didn't, I would not see the whole amount, only what he could afford, after he was done having fun. I also know, because of his line of work, layoffs can happen anually. He is laid off right now, has been since January. They don't expect him to be back to work until end of April, possibly as late as May. His unemployment check is half his paycheck. So it is very tight. I have to make sure that if our M fails, that I can take care of the kids by myself, even if he gave me court ordered support, during layoffs, he could not afford it, and I could not afford to support the kids on my current paycheck and what I would get while he is layed off. I have to plan for everything.

H is planning on taking me to a dinner in April. He just joined a veterans group, and they have a scholarship for students in the Nursing program. H's dad is involved in the group, he is going to see if I can put in an app for the program. That is nice of him. Back to the dinner, the dinner is a benefit to raise money for the scholarship.

I was surprised that H wanted to attend. He does not want to attend my graduating class dinner that we are having. I want to attend. I don't think we can afford it right now. Oh, well.

H said to me this morning, that if I am "nicer" to him, maybe we could get a room for the evening of the benefit dinner so we could have some time to ourselves. To me he is saying one of many things or a combination of things. 1) I want to get a room close to the dinner because I plan to drink to much and I know you are a lightweight when it comes to drinking, 2) by "nicer" he means I want my way without any grief from you and I will get a room for us for the night. 3)(different version of #2) If you are a "good girl" and don't tell me "no" to anything I want
4) he was doing something he was not supposed to over the weekend and he feels guilty.

I have been suggesting to H that we get someone to watch the kids for a weekend or evening and we get away and have some "us" time. He has rejected my suggestions everytime. Now, he wants to, as long as I am "nicer" to him. (I know, I am being cynical). He goes out of town, comes up with any excuse he thinks he can get away with, at least 4-6 times if not more per year, and rejects my suggestions all the time, and now, he wants to. It is always on his terms, his guidelines, when he wants to. I have accepted what I want is irrelevant. I don't want to just get a room in any old place. I wanted to take a drive up north, maybe get a B&B, or some rustic cabin or something. Not some cheap flea trap motel. Okay, I don't know what he has in mind, I should not assume it is some cheap flea trap motel, but I know it is not some romantic get away that I wanted to do.

#5 - your husband is a spend-thrift and has no clue that there is a consequence for spending $ you don't have. (I remember the going out to dinner receipts and charges you keep finding, all the while he's unemployed.)

The only thing that keeps us out of bankruptcy court is the $$ I manage to put into a savings, for these times. I plan on the tax refund going to help us through his unemployed times.

He wants to use the tax refund for stuff like a membership at a gym, and to buy a dryer. I'm okay with the dryer, except right now we cannot afford it. Why couldn't we buy the dryer 3 years ago when we had the money and he was not unemployed when the dryer first went out. All the trips he went on would have boughten me who knows how many dryers.

He wants you to be nicer??????
OMGosh I WANT TO STRANGLE HIM.
I would have probably told him if he was nicer to me, he'd get to sleep in our bed.
Actually..I probably would have just hit him upside the head with a frying pan.

Keep your eyes on the goal- you are almost there!!! You have my family in Guam rooting for you every single day!

Thanks - so far today is going okay. Hesitant to get my hopes up for a good day

Took the dog for a walk last night. It felt good. I will probably take another one tonight. Just a quick jaunt around the block.

Hi Sue,
Will you walk mine while you are at it? I forgot yesterday and don't think I'll have time tonight.

I am interrested in what KaylaAndy has to say. Kayla, are you saying that she shouldn't talk to him now, and should just continue to hold on until school is out no matter what? I consider you to be a sage here, and wonder if you could talk a little more about what you think??

BTW, how are you and Kasey doing? Haven't seen you post about you for a while.

Sue,
Kids Ok? You sound better your self. True? Or just that "one strong women" showing up again?

SS

Hi SS

It is a little bit of both. I got myself refocused, things are a little bit better in some ways, the same in others and worse in others.

I decided that I have to get myself back together if I intend to make it to graduation.

I have also come up with many scenarios on how to handle things when the time is right. Some of them are major LB's and others actually follow into the MB plan. The Major LB would be to e-mail everyone my H knows about everything I know and make sure I include H. After all, he is the important one to get it.
Some not legal, so we will avoid them, some not even possible, but fun to think of.

I am trying to figure out if there is a way to tell him, without him leaving. If not, then I will continue as is. Graduation is May 14, after that I have a class I signed up for. According the rep, 95% of the nursing student who take this course pass the boards. Our instructors recommend it.

Iam having an affair, where do i start to end it? I am in the process of falling in love with this other person. Everytime we meet a get a little more involved. I don't want to leave my family (husband 5 yrs, teo boys 1 and 4 )but I fantacise about it. I panic when I think I almost get caught and swear i'll never see him again but a couple weeks go by and I have to see him again, or I think I can just be "friends". I want to tell my husband because he is my best friend I need his support through this but i can't expect that. I feel like I'm in a hole. It physically hurts to think of giving up my lover. I look forward to getting closer to him but at the same time it scares me to death. I feel like I'm right at the point of no return but i'm to confused to turn back. I feel like I'm addicted to my lover but at the same time I feel like I really love him and he's the one I should be with. This is making me a nervous wreck and I can't take it anymore. ANd I can't talk to anybody about it. I am A horrible horrible person.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by still seeking:
Kayla, are you saying that she shouldn't talk to him now, and should just continue to hold on until school is out no matter what? I consider you to be a sage here, and wonder if you could talk a little more about what you think??

BTW, how are you and Kasey doing? Haven't seen you post about you for a while.
<hr /></blockquote>SS - thanks for asking - Kasey and I - we have our days... I've finally had a full year of absolutely zero contact with the woman that sent me screaming to this site a couple of years ago - not that Kasey was trying to keep a relationship with her (EA), but she would not let go... Anyway - zero contact works wonders for the soul, especially when life gets abundantly full and rewarding that I can leave obsessions like that behind...

SS, the reason I recommended she say little or nothing to her husband is because right now, Sue has her hands full with exams and licensing requirements. If she removes his illusions that he has that she is entirely in the dark about his dual life, then he will do everything in his power to damage and shatter her equillibrium, including sabotaging her final months of schooling. He can't help it - the nature of a WS is selfish - the world revolves around them and their foggish illusions - his number one illusion is that he can keep such a secret life hidden from his wife - the one he pledged and covenanted to be true and faithful to.

Equillibrium is everything right now. Sure, the whole house feels like a tilt-room at an amusement park, only one of the warped and twisted kinds of parks that aren't real fun for the honest in heart. But so far, the room isn't swaying back and forth, and Sue has all the plates spinning on 1/4 inch dowels quite nicely. Let Maestro become aware that his world is about to tilt, he'll tilt hers a bit more, just so that his doesn't seem so bad. As long as the crash is dramatic, and traumatic for her, he can feel sane.

I've worked around sick people for too long - I know his next move as surely as I could discern in hind-sight. I've been down this road before - psychotic woman who was fixated on my husband, or the paranoid skizo co-worker I used to work with...

The best thing my sponsor (S-Anon) ever taught me is to disconnect my brain from my heart so that I could function, even while my heart was breaking. She had me write out a plan that totally focused on what my next step was, and then my next step when that one was done, etc. Sue's got the same kind of map (and looky - she didn't even need my wise sponsor to figure it out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) It's her logical thinker's default program, in the event that her husband decides to attempt to wreck her life, since he's already wrecked her heart, just for revenge - he can't have her move on in life without him and have any kind of peace; after all, she's then removing at least one source of intrigue and drama and gamble in his life (he is a gambler in the strongest sense of the word). An addict doesn't like to let go of his fix easily.

Just my take on human nature gone bad <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

[ April 01, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]

[QUOTE]he can't have her move on in life without him and have any kind of peace; after all, she's then removing at least one source of intrigue and drama and gamble in his life (he is a gambler in the strongest sense of the word). An addict doesn't like to let go of his fix easily. /QUOTE]

I found this interesting. I don't know if you recall in previous posts long ago, when H first met OW, back when H was fiance, and 2nd son was 6 months old. H met OW. H left us. At first I begged, pleaded, all the wrong stuff to do. After time went on, I started moving forward with my life without him. I stopped asking for us to get back together, stopped asking for us to find our own place. I started looking for a place for me and my children (we were living in his mom's duplex.) I figured I could not move forward living in her home, that I needed to be out on my own. H took notice, got worried that I was moving on without him, and I was. I told him, you didn't want to get a place together and be a family, it is time I got on with my life. He started coming around so fast, my head was spinning. I started getting confused, he started worrying that I would get mad and tell him to get lost. I was afraid at that time to address the issue of OW, and assumed she was gone because we got married. The first 3 months of marriage I almost filed for divorce. I had to move back to his moms, H was in an auto accident, I was not getting CS, could no longer afford my apartment. We got married, H would not move in with us, would not let me move in with him. Said the apartment was too small, and he had 3 months left on the lease. I said, so, leave anyway and we will pay the rent. He would not hear of that. Now, I question, was she there during all of this. Great way to start out our marriage. I was ready to tell him I wanted a divorce when he said he was packing up his stuff. When we married, I just assumed one of us was going to move in with the other. Natural assumption. I didn't think we had to discuss it. Boy, was I wrong. I feel like such a dope. Especially when I add it all up.

I'm not Catholic, my H and mother in law are. My MIL is going to have the priest to a Novena (I hope that is right) I'm not quite sure what one is, but she says if it is answered, things will work out. At this point, if it will help, lets add it in the plan.

[ April 01, 2003, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hey Sue,
I believe KaylaAndy's advice is best. It sounds to me like she has him dialed in pretty good. I hope after reading what he might do if cornered that it helps you go another few weeks and be strong. ( Don't you hate that - "be strong." Makes you want to scream, doesn't it.)
Yeah, be strong. Scream if you have to, you can even walk the dog, but don't kill H yet.
( In case anyone just wanders by, "kill H" is a figure of speach, I do not advocate violence nor do I think Sue ought to kill her H rignt now. Reserve the right to think it later though. )

Kayla, thanks for the update. I remember when Kasey was worried about the hot tub I was thinking " what in the world is he worring about that for now, when all these other things are going on in his life?" I suspect you were thinking along those same lines. I have found as I have read here that we all need some kind of outlet or goal to relieve preassure and I suppost that was his. ( though it caused it's own share of frustration for a while, what with the leaks and all.) Anyway, thanks. I think I live in the same state as you do, but far away down in dixie.

Sorry about the thread hijack - back to our regularly sceduled program.

Sue, I suspect you can make six or eight more weeks.

Is it still cold where you are?

SS

Its up and down for the weather, we get some nice days, in the 50's, 60's, then we are back down to the 30's and predicting snow.

A few weeks back, I put some grass seed down thinking we were done with the cold. I have to call the garden center and see if there is a chance the seed will grow. We have a few bad spots in the yard that need some grass. Trying to fill them in.

My mood is better now. I hope I can sustain it. I am focused again on school and my priorities. We had a test today, I don't know how I did, the website that we can look it up, says technical difficulties for grades. I don't know if that means 1) grades are not done yet 2) website having difficulties 3) scan machine not working or 4) teachers having difficulty and are suffering burnout along with the students.

H is being nicer to me the last couple of days. We will see why, is it because he wants to be nice or is it because he wants something?

I found another e-mail, this time, they are trying to plan a trip. We will see what happens. At least I know the dates, so I can put a monkey wrench into that one.

As far as killing the H, well, we will hold off on that idea. I don't like violence either, however, I could learn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just remember, dead men don't pay CS. Clara Harris would have fared better if she had kept this in mind.

Right now I am back to my old mood. I hope it lasts. If I can sustain this mind set for the next few weeks I will make it.

On a brighter note,

H is helping around the house more, doing dishes, asking my preferances, helping with the kids, etc, etc. So, the question is Why? At this time I will enjoy the treatment regardless of the reason why. He has been helping daughter learn her ABC's, making sure she has Dora the Explorer, Blues Clues, all those types of shows on tv, he bought her an activity book for her age and working helping her with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I passed test #2. One more to go. Now, I have to get a good grade on my presentation, preceiptorship and I should pass clinicals. I didn't do very well in clinicals. For some reason this rotation I was very nervous and messed up alot. At least we get to review ourselves. I used the form provided along with an attachment I sent to the instructor explaining what I should have done vs what I did. I think that helped. All I want is to pass. I don't have to have A's. Even though they would be nice

Congratulation's, your strength is alway's encouraging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Sue,
I still say Kayla's advice is really good. I didn't think of the things she said, and if he really would blow things all apart you have to hold on and get your school done and pass your tests first.

Good job on the test, I believe you will do well on them all. I think for a smart girl, you worry too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ( a little is good, but a lot = too much stress.)

As far as his improvements. You already know he has some good in him. You would have never married him if he was a total jerk. Stroke him for his improvements. Let him know what you like and train him to do more. If you have to live with it for a few months, might as well make the most of it.

Just remember, dead men don't pay CS.
Gotcha -
How about collecting life insurance? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I had better quit, someone may come along and think bad of me when I am just teasing.

SS

Hi SS,

Yes there is the life insurance, they don't pay it to the person who intentionally helps with their demise. There is not enough of it to last until the youngest turns 18. He is so underinsured. I need to raise it. (Just kidding). I know you are kidding. You are way to kind to really advocate this kind of advise.

So far H has not tried to get out of our dinner plans.

My sister just called me. There a celebration dinner that my class put together. I want to go, it will cost quite a bit for all of us to go. My sister asked me about it, I told her we were not going, could not afford it. She calls me back 5 min later, and tells me to go ahead and sign up, that she called everyone in the family and they are going to pay for us to attend. I was so happy I wanted to cry, they love me that much and want to to attend.

As I was typing this I called H to tell him, and he says, fine, you go ahead and go. WHAT!!!!. I told him that I want all of us to go. I don't want to go alone. I want the kids there too. Talk about bursting my bubble. This is important to me, and he does not want to go.

Screw him.
YOU go. YOU deserve it! Take the kids if you wish. His lack of support of you is glaring, especially after he demands so much for himself.

Again, make it to the end. I am also worried that if you confront him he will do something to screw your plans up. It would absolutely be something he would do- sabotage you to protect himself! YOU ARE SO CLOSE!!!!
I know you want him to care, but his head is so far up his a$$ right now, that you are better off just doing what *you* want to do and to hell with him right now.

Your family is behind you, all of us here are behind you. Know that when you attend that party, we are all thinking about you and rooting for you. We will be with you in spirit until the bitter end.

Take some deep breaths and go zen.....

Just bumping so Sue knows I've been thinking about her all weekend.

Thanks - I think he is going to go. I have decided that when I purchase the tickets, I will purchase one for him. If he does not want to go, I will ask my MIL, or one of my sisters. (probably sister). They have been the most helpful with my getting through school. If I had a sick kid on day of school, my MIL usually took the sick one. (and she got home from work at 6AM). My other sister, used to take the kids when I had day clinicals, she would take them to school or daycare, another sister, would babysit at night or weekends so I could study if H was not home. My neice used to come and help clean so I could stay on top of stuff. (shes a teenager, so other stuff became more important and she quit).
I told H that this mattered to me that the kids and him attend. I told him that this is my celebration. His comment was, you complain about your classmates, why do I want to be with them. He took some of my frustrations with a couple classmates as complaints. One girl, works 20 hours a week, no kids and a husband and never had her part done on time, she always complained that she never had time for stuff. I found listening to her very frustrating because her I am working full time, 3 kids and school. I felt lack of planning on her part, was no excuse for not having her stuff done when I got mine done. It is stuff like that where I don't have time to indulge in what is petty stuff to me, and I find frustrating to have to deal with. She is always telling me that there is no way I can work full time as a nurse when I finish school, I will burn out from the stress. Now, how is working full time going to me more stressful than working full time, going to school, 3 children with hockey schedules, soccer schedule, dance schedule, school events, and your husband's infidelity. I might collapse from lack of stimulation since I am so used to being in high gear. So, that is H's excuse to not attend. Just a feeble excuse. I reminded him that this was about me, and me wanting to attend this celebration and having my family there. I told him that my family was paying for this as a present to me for graduation.

One more thing, I feel that this is not just my celebration, but one for the kids too and even H. The kids have for the last two years, have had to adjust to only seeing me in the mornings when I took them to daycare/school and weekends. Prior to this, I was the one who took them to daycare when I went to work, I picked them up after work, I was home in the evenings while H was who knows where. H was home some nights, but he would disappear for 1-4 hours every night. (I wonder where???).

So, the kids needs this as much as I do. It is a way to celebrate the sacrafices they made.

When I had clinicals during the day, and I took the kids to my sisters house the night before, (I did this so I did not have to make them get up at 5am), they would cry and beg me to let them stay home, saying that they will be good, they will get up good, they didn't mind getting up early, they will go to bed early. I know that they didn't understand that this was for their benefit, that I minded getting them up at 5am, I knew it was not good for them. I knew that this was better. When I had the opportunity to request 2nd shift clinicals, I asked for it, knowing that this would be better for the kids. They are used to me being gone in the evenings.

Hold both his hands in yours, and look into his eyes. Say "can I ask you about something very important to me." I hope he says yes, and I think he will. Then say, " I have tickets to this dinner ( explain again what it is for) and it is very, very important to me that you go with me. It would make me very happy, will you go? Please?"

Hi Sue,
It will be good for the kids to see you there and understand a little bit about what you have done for the last two years. H may even get some idea of all your hard work.

I hope he will support you in things that are important to you. It would really help you to cope with the bad.

SS

SS - I had forgotten you were south of me. I'm about to not be on the internet as much, due to focusing back where I need to be - building a new business - my business loan is a month old and I still don't have my data base ready to go.

[ May 02, 2004, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]

Hi Sue,
congrats on the test and also I wish you more stamina to finish all that's needed for school.
I am tired and busy with regular job also now I am cleaning and painting the house to rent it ASAP.
I am concerned my H and I don't have time to talk or just be relaxed together. I stopped being the initiator so the conversations stopped altogether....
FBOW

Hi Sue,
I see you are all over the place doing good, and helping people. I have to believe some of that will come back around.

Study hard, and all that, but don't worry about it, you'll do well. When you go to bed, sleep, don't agonize about school.

I can't tell for sure if you are doing well right now, but it seems like it. You seem to journal more when you are down. You need not reply to this one, I just wanted to say hi.

Ss

I'm peeking in. I am doing better right now. I have been meaning to post the good stuff too, except I am really busy. Since the good stuff does not distract me, I put it off on posting.

Such as, H has been washing the dishes almost everyday lately. For me that is a big deal, since getting him to help in the past has been next to impossible. It is one less thing for me to do.

Gotta to. You are one observant man.

Dear Sue-

good luck on becoming a nurse! I am an RN too- haven't practiced in a while but I went through it all- it's a cauldron but it does get easier eventually.

It's great that you have your plan.

Confusing about your H though. This guy has been having this A for how long? Sounds like since you first married and then it started up again? You said maybe there's a real connection there... so why hasn't he left and moved in with her? Why the great secrecy? It sounds like he is taking great steps to hide it from you. You haven't confronted him. If you did are you thinking he might leave you high and dry, not pay for your school???

Anyway, glad to hear you will be graduating soon. Good luck and I will be happy when the day comes that you can stand up to your H. You deserve better than this treatment from him.

I think we will all be right here, waiting with baited breath, on the day she confronts him. We will be all hoping for the best outcome- a stronger Sue who ends up with exactly what she wants in life, whatever it may be.

I'm not worried about him leaving and paying for school. Tuition is all paid for, thanks to Student loans. All in my name, so they are my responsibility. I work full time, evenings, have eversince I started the program. We have 3 kids that need to be taken care of. They are in daycare or school during the day, and H takes care of them at night. There is no one to watch them while I work at night if I was to confront now and he left. So, if he left, I would have to quit school, return to first shift, lose my 2nd shift differnetial, and my job is not secure. I predict within 5-10 years my job will be eliminated. So, that makes it harder for me to find employment, unless I continue my current goal. Also, Nursing pays better. I could support the kids on my check alone. H would pay CS, his work can be considered seasonal at times. He has been layed off since January. He should be back to work any time now. The job line has been up and down for the last couple of weeks. When he was laid off they told him not to expect to be working until Late April or even May. There is no work in his field rigth now. Spring always picks up. We have been really lucky in this aspect, in the 10 years he has been in this field, he really only suffered layoffs for any lenght of time twice.

Hey Sue! I've been really busy and I just stopped in to check on you. I'm happy to see you are getting closer to accomplishing your goal. (finishing your school)

You know, you really really deserve better than your H. Everytime I read your posts, I think she is so mature and she's married to a child. I mean, look at who he choses for an A, someone so totally opposite of you. Still living at home, no kids, no responsibilities. I bet that time with her is carefree, there is probably nothing but air between her ears.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is you are ABOVE all of this. No matter what, you will be the one that can hold your head up high and say you acted as a respectable human being. I know the deception hurts, but once their A see's the light of day they won't be the ones to earn respect of others.

Once my A saw the light of day, I wasn't exactly proud. One thing that particulary bothered me was how I had been with my daughter. I had been alienating her and our relationship was going down hill. I was so mad at myself for that, they are only young once and that time is SOOOOO important. I didn't want her to remember her mom as a cheating liar.

I guess what I am trying to say is I admire you for keeping the right path. You have good things coming to you, it might take some time, but I am confident it will come.

Just popping in, not much time today.

I have to write 3 papers this weekend plus do two shifts at the hospital for preceptoship.

Thanks - I will say more later when I have time

I hadnt posted again knowing just how busy you are, but since you popped in I'll quickly let you know that I think of you every day.
I am getting very excited for you!
Do not worry, we will be here for ya when you have more time!

Thanks - Boy, I will be so glad when things wind down. Now I have 6 jounal entries to write and turn in by Thurday, (maybe 8), and another preceptorship, plus one case study.

As much as I like the weather we have been having, it would be easier to accept all this busy ness (I know, not a real word) If it was not so darn nice. I look out the window and see nice weather, the grass is turning green and I am stuck at a computer writing papers.

Draw a storm on poster board and put it on the window. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See, men don't listen well, they just come up with solutions off the cuff. Saves them lots of time.

I just keep thinking "Go Sue! Only a month left!!"

Well, then tests, but it's getting shorter.

SS

I hope Sue ( and everyone else) is doing well,
Just in the neighbourhood, thought I would say Hi.

Almost another week down, is time passing more quickly as I get older, or do I just sleep more?

SS

Time is passing more quickly.

I cannot believe that April is 1/2 over. I have too much to do and I need about one more month to accomplish it all.

Hey, are you checking that schedule and making sure you are available for the potluck?? It wouldn't be the same without you there!!

C

Yeah, I will have it figured out by the end of the weekend. Promise.

Almost there, Sue! Still rooting for you in Guam!

I'm still alive and kicking (and not the H).

H has been better lately. If he would have been this good all along, I never would have suspected a thing.

He is trying harder with kids, he is even finding humor in some of my stuff. Like, Okay, guys, I was wrong. Easter sunday, we go out to breakfast, daughter and MIL are with H and I, bil is bring the boys. Somehow, BIL got lost, never made it. He took the boys somewhere else for breakfast. We go home, kids wanted to spend some time with MIL and BIL. We said sure. H decides to go to his moms, I'm trying to get some papers written. I thought it was enternity that they were gone. (i didn't look at the clock) so i'm getting irked that here it is Easter Sunday, and H leaves the kids at his moms. (H went to find a game, never found it). (yes he could have stopped at her house, I don't know). Well, papers are done, and I'm irked that they are gone all day. (well, after H figured out why I was upset. It did not take much figuring since I told him directly) H pointed out that they were only gone 3 hours. Boy, did I feel foolish.

Monday, H is looking on internet, finds an timeshare, he suggests we buy one, and have OW buy out his half. (they bought one together when we were engaged, he didn't tell me about it.). I agree except, right now, we don't have the money, and his half, minus what he owes her, does not leave us with enough to buy this timeshare. We agreed we will look after I finish school. He knows this timeshare is a issue with me. So, maybe he is trying to break free from her? I know he does not want to walk away from this timeshare.

That's it Sue,
Look for good, ignore the bad, at least until you pass the final test and have a good job. I think your on a roll.

I tease you a lot but I care, and I feel you are doing pretty good, or I wouldn't tease so much.

It has been fun playing around on LWFC's potluck thread, but I better leave it alone or people might think I'll show up one of these days, then again, you never know.

SS

Sue, did your neice have the baby??? Been waiting to hear. Missed you at Chocolata's party, thought of you... and had a glass of wine just for you!

SS - So, do you need directions for the bonfire in July? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

C

[ April 27, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Dear Friend,
Im so sorry to hear of this pain you are experiencing. I know it is torture to be so sure but unable to back your feeling with fact. But sometimes even that does not help unless you go to incredible lenths. In Sept 2000 I found hotel transactions for the previous June and July 2000.I had been typeing an e-mail to a friend earlier that evening while he ws doing a night job and I had decided to wait up for him and get some chores done ,such as our vbills and banking. However,during the time i waw on the computer i had discovered a request from my H to an Agent for Elton John tickets. I knew neither my H nor I could or can stand Elton John.I was aware of one person we both knew who loved him though,it had to be a local woman who H talked to regularly ( Obsessively) on the net. She had said she adored Elton John and had mentioned several concerts she had been too in the past. He came in later at 4am from his job about three hours later then expected. (One suspicious thing about this job was the marked lack of income)I was it appears paying for the affair. The Hotels and dinners whilst i struggled to bearly feed te children and us, and pay the mortgage and other necessary bills. Either My income ewas paying for the hotels and dinners or his part time job was ( the job he took to try to help me out with the burden!!) He lied right into my eyes with the utmost sincerity about the hotels he lied about the salary he lied about many other ridiculos things that could not possibly be beleived by an even half way educated person but such is the character of the person having an affair when they fall. They fall real low and soon all integrity is gone and they do not care who suffers or is humiliated. He lied even when a friend of mine followed and took pics. He said they must be fake " you can do all sorts of stuff on computers these days." So if you have a gut feeling that things do not add up. they probably don't! If you feel she may be having an affair , she may well be,but honestly confronting will not work or help, she will get defencive and even more careful and resentful to you. Sadly you are not only the victim of this sick game but in order to finally stop it you will be forced to not only prove the affair but prove to her beyond any possible doubt or way out tht you know she his having an affair. Cast iron proof and then and only then will she possibly confess. I went though it for over two years and eventually it was the OW that told all....Good luck!!!

[ April 28, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: DisapointedDana ]

Hi Cerri- I posted on potluck, will also update here

Neice had a boy, I forget how little they are.

Had a busy weekend.

H has been spending more time with me. Actually shows concern for my well being.

We went out Saturday night, Sunday I spend paying bills, adn doing homework. I have to make this quick. I have more homework to do.

I know he still talks to her. How much time they have together does not appear to be much.

We will see what happens. I wish he could get back to work.

What frame of mind is Sue in ?

I expect a full report as soon as you have time.
( which may be June of 2005, but we shouldn't put preasure on someone in the last month of school.)

SS

What mind? - I lost it years ago, going back to school whil raising 3 kids and workin full time confirms that I lost it years ago.

Anyway, preceptorship is done, I have 9 journal entries to write this weekend, and study for the last test so I can graduate on May 14. So close and yet so far.

H called, the dirt I ordered has been delivered. I hope it was enough. We used to have an above ground pool that was put about 2 feet into the ground. So we took it out and are filling it in.

It will be nice to have a full yard. The non working pool came with the house. H is thinking about totally removing the deck, and putting down a patio. I don't know what has gotten into him, but he is really into fixing up the house this year. He wants to start each and every project. I wish he would start one and finish it before the next one. At least he is finally working on the house.

I will probably be scarce over the next couple of weeks. I will update when I can

I will probably be scarce over the next couple of weeks.

I suppose we need to take the "master of understatement" award away from whippit and give it to you this month.

See ya when you get back.

SS

Well, if you insist, I really don't want to take anything away for Whippit.

I am soooo worried I will fail this last test. If I fail, and depending upon by how much, I do not graduate. If I am lucky they will let me repeat the sememster. I will have to petition the Nursing program board and tell why I failed and what I will do different to pass.

Then there is NCLEX that is going to cost another 200. If I fail that, I get to have the honor of paying 200 each and everytime I take the test until I pass.

Wanted to say one more thing.

H has been unusually receptive these days.

You know MN had a potluck that I did not get to thanks to the birth of a cute baby boy. H was at one point considering attending.

H does not know about my posting here. I told him it is a group of people I met who met because they want to work on improving their marriages. A version of the truth. I could not tell him the whole truth, not yet. He at first balked at my association, and wanted to know what was wrong with our marriage. (where should I start?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> All I said was all marriages can improve and grow. I don't want ours to get stagnant. (which there is some truth to that)

Anyway, one of my classmates was just engaged, and she wanted my address to mail me an invitation. I told H about it, he wanted to know which one, and he is considering going. In the past, he did all he could to avoid involvement with my friends, now he is willing (at least verbally) to get involved.

I just informed him of my company picnic. In the past, he always tried to get out of it. All he asked was what is the date, and said OK. (I ask the alien mothership to please not come and take this version of H. I really like this one) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ May 02, 2003, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue, I am crossing my fingers for your tests.
I am so glad that at least some things improved on your homefront.
Can't believe I was "with" you almost the full year.

I have no good news to share, had a baaad day, no progress in R in two weeks, hopefully yesterday's/today's mistakes/misunderstandings will get their time in conversation someday. Which stopped happening again.
Going to ind. counseling first session next Thursday. I have no clue what to expect. It was difficult to find anybody accepting both my insurance and new clients and appointments not totally midday ( since I work 8-5). Hoping to get some skills and maybe insight why I can't let go, even for Plan B.

SS, if you see this, hi, and that's it for posting for a while.
Have a good weekend,
FBOW

Sue -- Hi. Sorry I have been out of the loop a little. I hope things are going well for you. I can't imagine the stress of being in school again (chills...), but as I have said before... you will kick butt!!! Why? because you have been working your butt off, and you DESERVE it!!!

Things have been ok here. My mom is still a source of stress... when she calls here, she barely talks to H, just asks for me. This has been bothering my H a lot! And to make matters worse, I am but a few weeks away from the 1 yr anniv. of D-Day. I have really made progress, but sometimes I find myself wondering "is he really where he says he is?"... and it's stupid, because I know he is... but as an example: Last night I mentioned I wanted ice cream... we were watching a movie, and then suddenly durring the first commercial he says "I'm gonna go get you your ice cream"... ok... 20 minutes later he comes back with ice cream from a different place than he said he was going to go to... no big deal... but he usually takes his cell phone and we talk while he's out... well, he didn't call me, and he said that he went to the first place, and it was too crowded, so he drove to the second place... all this is no big deal... I know that, but I was still stressed about it! He said he forgot his phone, and I believed him, but part of me still wanted to check his "outgoing" calls!!! I know I am acting silly... is this all still part of the "healing" process??? He really has not done anything that puts op red flags... Am I being paranoid? I think that out of all WS's... HE has learned the HARDEST lesson of all... I really don't think he would be that STUPID again... Or am I just getting worked up because of the anniv of D Day???

Sorry... I had to get that off my chest. In reality, I am sure I am overreacting... but I guess there will always be a small part of me that wonders.

Can you believe that a YEAR has passed and I have had NO contact with my own "sister"!!! (or her H for that matter!!!) My entire family is still being torn apart!!! I swear, if it was not for my parents health, I would just walk away and let that b*tch have them!!! I don't need the stress anymore!

Now get off the computer, and get back to the books!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> We still need nurses around here!!!

-mc

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now get off the computer, and get back to the books!!! We still need nurses around here!!!
<hr /></blockquote>NAG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I do need to hit the books.

As far as your questions go, what do you think deep in yout gut. That is your best answer. I always look to see if he left his phone home.

As far as your mom goes, she will just have to accept that you have made your decision, eventually she will come around. She has very little choice, the girls will start noticing and might ask questions, what will she do, tell them the truth, I hope not, if anyone ever tells them, it should be a joint decision that you and your H make.

I've heard that the anniversay of D-day is a trigger. I don't know, I keep pushing the A out of my mind, and keep focusing on school. I'm sure once all is done, I will crash and crash hard. I'm expecting it.

Now, today, we finished filling in the hole in our backyard that used to have a non working pool (above ground, execpt they put it about 2 feet into the ground). H commented that this was the first project that the whole family worked on. I think he liked it. He tried to get his brother to go to the movies with him, I had to go to work for a few hours. H's brother could not go, H calls me, and says, see if the kids will stay the night at my mom's. If so, I will get some wine and a movie. We all know what that means <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As I said in a prior post, if the alien theory is true, I really don't want the mothership to come back for this version of H. I like this one and want him to stay.

SUe -- 1 year anniv. for d-day is May 21. Maybe that is part of it. To be honest, I don't think my H would do it again, but then again I didn't marry him saying "yep, this is it... the man who will betray me in the worst way possible!"

I responded to someone in Recovery about the anniv. of d-day, and I told them that I actually want to do something special on that day. As silly as that may sound, I don't want to forget that day. That was the day that made me who I am today! (Although I would have preferred not to have a d-day... I wasn't so bad before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) Even though I am not over it, and still have bad days, that was the day that will forever change my life... It has made me stronger (usually), and made my M better.

As for the other night, I talk to H about it the next day... he had had a really bad day (because of my mom...big shock!) and I told him that I had a moment of "concern". He said he was sorry for putting me in the position where I felt like that, and said I was free to check his phone for outgoing/incomming calls anytime. That helped.

Like I said, I really do trust him... I just have some days where I can't get the A out of my mind. The worst part about it is the fact that "she" wont ever REALLY be out of our lives... I think it would be easier if the OW had been someone I didn't know. I don't think I can get through a phone conversation with my mom without hearing SOMETHING about her!!! (response to mom: "mom, I really don't care, and I really don't want to hear anything about her")

oh well... today is another day... and I'm stronger than yesterday!

STUDY!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

-the nag <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (ooops, I mean mc)

MC,

There is nothing Silly about not wanting to forget D-day. As awful as it was, it is a significant part of your marriage, who you are, how you have grown and changed. And a positive note of remembering, (yes there can be a positive), is that it can remind you not to take your marriage and family for granted. Remembering in a positive way, will help you to enjoy all that you can in your marriage and do all you can to keep your marriage alive and well.

You are so lucky that your H loves you so much that he is willing to let you see his phone, all incoming and outgoing. That he understands your fears and wants to alleviate them.

Take the negative and try to make it positive. You have a lot going for you.

Never forget D-day, it is part of you marriage, turn the negative of D-day into a positive.

I know I should not let the negative thoughts invade, after all, what did I just tell MC.

Last night, after we were finished, H went to movie, he says alone. Except, he could have gone to a theater near our house, instead he goes to one 3 towns away. I know in a metro area, 3 towns is not that far. To get to this town, he had to go near where she lives. I honestly think he goes there when he is seeing her.

He calls me when he is on his way home, and says that he has to stop for gas. The tank is full, I used the car earlier in the day. He claims he wants to top it off. He does not do that. He waits until it is near empty to fill it up. He says while prices are down. Yeah, right, and I have the brooklyn bridge for sale too. That is totally out of character for him. Why does he think I am soooooooo dumb?

A movie alone 3 towns away??? Do you give him grief over these things or is it too much for you to deal with right now?

I don't give him too much grief, I question it to him, I ask him why he had to go there, and not near our house. He always has some lame, feeble excuse. Frankly, they have lost their amusement

Today, we left the house at the same time, he said he was going to see his dad. His dad lives about 45 min. away. Said he would probably play in the cribbage tournament. H just called me. Said he never made it to his dads, correction, he went there, dad was not home. Forgot that dad was out of town. So he has been shopping at "home depot" and stuff like that. (I don't believe him)

We left the house around 10:30, it is now 3:30. Who spends that much time at places like Home Depot?

She e-mailed him. They don't e-mail much, when they do, they don't say much, and nothing incriminating. No "I love yous" nothing like that.

Yesterday, he said something, he may have been joking, I'm not sure. I don't recall exactly what it was. It prompted me to ask him if he wanted a divorce after I finish school, pass boards and find a job that I can properly support the kids on. He at first replied, can I. Later I asked if he was serious, does he really want a divorce. He replied "No". I had to ask.

He actually called me "Hon" this morning. I had to get up, he said "Hon, time to get up, you said you wanted to be up early today". He probably wanted to get rid of me early so he could spend time with her. I am so cynical, I cannot even take a nice comment without twisting with some sort of disttrust added to it these day.

Take the good and be glad for it, quit thinking about the bad. You can't afford it right now, it will just make you crazy.

You know what you need to do.

SS

well, folks, on a brighter note, I passed clinicals with a B. I now have to pass my Theory test on Monday.

On a down side, I did something to my knee on Monday, have been on pain meds that knock me out for Monday and Tuesday, so I was behind on my studies, and finishing up papers. I got my papers done, my case study done, now it is time to concentrate on theory exam. I stopped taking the pain meds except for the Ibuprophen, (sp) (don't have drug book with me to look up spelling). I'm in a leg brace. MRI on Friday, Dr appt after test on monday. Hope nothing serious

hey chick.... just dropping in to say hi..... you must be counting down the days til school is done. sending you all the best!!! - C

Thanks - yep, I am counting the days. H went out of town (not happy about it, I forgot he mentioned it, but I guess I want him out of my hair this weekend anyway.

Sister took kids for the evening so I can get MRI done, she is coming to get them in the AM, so I can study, BIL is taking kids tomorrow night, H is picking up kids on Sunday on his way home.

I might go in a coma with all the peacefulness. Meeting with Study group on Sunday. I hope to get in a Mom's day meal with the whole family at some point.

I decided that Imagry does not work for pain management. Of course I decided that during the birth of all my children.

About to leave work to get MRI done. I probably will not be back on until Monday after test, unless I need a study break.

I am really scared I will fail this test. Of course the pressure is on because if I don't pass this one, I just threw two years down the drain. I keep hearing that most of us are scared of this test.

I'll say a prayer for you, it's about all I can do. Sorry for all the troubles lately, I hope you do really well on the test.

SS

Sue,
Thinking of you today. Its Monday afternoon here, so I'll make sure to check in on you Tuesday afternoon to see how you feel about it.

SO SO CLOSE NOW!

See post on Final for test results for those who are interested.

Went to Dr. today, I have to see an orthopedic specialist. Bummer

Oh well, I still have 6-8 weeks before boards (assuming I passed my final) Maybe by then It will be healed

Mothers day was not good. I spent the whole weekend studying, (I wanted it that way). I though H would have at least took us out for dinner when he got home with the kids.

Kids spent the weekend at my sisters and BIL/MIL. H went out of town (bachelor party?????). Anyway, at the time, I did not care, I cared about having the weekend for studying. I thought and strongly hinted (my hints are not subtle) that we should go out to dinner. Instead H goes to White Castle and brings home burgers.

I decided that H is officially brain dead. No card, no "happy mothers day", nothing.

Oldest made me a gift at school, second oldest, I'm not sure if he actually got these for me, or was trying to come up with something, he gave me polished rocks he found (heart in right place, not sure what I will do with rocks, I can think of some stuff, all aimed at brain dead hubby.) Okay, I won't do it. Daughter, says, "mommy I dont' have anything for you" all sad, second son give her some rocks to give me. She's happy now, she has a gift for mom. (I'm thinking again, should I take aim?) Okay, I do not take aim, I probably would missed anyway. I never did have any athletic ability, so I don't need to break anything valuable.

I decided that we are going to go out to dinner wednesday. I did not even ask H, I told him we are.

Well, I recall saying something about aliens leaving a good H. Well, they switched them again. This one can leave and good riddence to him.

I am so angry right now, I want to pack his bags for him. Ever since he returned on Sunday he has been nothing but a big JERK!!!!!!!!!!

He probably spent time with her, and is now feeling guilty or she is putting pressure on him. I don't kwow which, and right now I do not CARE.

Yesterday, I took test, went to Doctor, came home, went to work. Didn't see too much of H.

Today, he would hardly do anything to help me. He says I am being the you know what. Okay, so I am grumpy, I'm in pain, all I wanted was a little help and all he did was sit on the computer all morning. He expected me to alter my hours to take daughter to soccer, so he could play ball. It take me 20 min to get from my car to my desk, so now I am supposed to take a long lunch to take his place at her soccer. I will be there once in a while, but not all the time. He expected me to then take the kids to where he is playing ball.

He does not care that that means extra walking for me, which means more strain on my bad leg, my good leg and my back.

Right now if anyone asked me if I want my marriage to work, my answer would be NO!!!!!!!!!

On a brighter side, I have an appt to see a specialist at the end of the month, so things are going there. I will be stuck in this brace until then.

Right now, I do not want to attend my graduation because I do not want Brain Dead (BD) husband present. Maybe I will take the kids out to celebrate and skip the ceremony.

Focus on what you have to do. That means leave alone the things you would "like" to do.

Sue, you know how it goes, and you will do what you need to do. You already know this stuff, but I just wanted to be your mom tonight and tell you anyway.

I am so sorry for the continued problems with H. I wish he would "get" it and start making us guys look a little better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

After all your study, do you have an idea of what is wrong with your leg?

I continue to pray for you, I know you are mostly venting, but want you to know that people care about you.

SS

It could be a few possiblitlites. I have not heard the results of the MRI. I'm not too concerned right now. The results will not change if I ask now or wait until I see the specialist.

It could be torn or stretech muscles, tendons, ligaments, anything with the knee cap, such as deterioration, misalignment, who knows, since I didn't ask what the MRI said, I don't know at this time. I figure if I knew, I would start looking it up, and at this time, I need to spend my time getting my house back to order, and studying for boards, not worrying about my knee that I cannot do anything about until I see the specialist.

Last night we went to dinner, during dinner, my knee started hurting so much, that I told my H I wanted to skip graduation and go home so I could go to bed. It has not hurt this much in a while. I think I overdid it. So, now I am cutting back. He asked if I was sure, he said this is your event, you earned it. I told him I would be too uncomfortable to be there. So we went home. I have to take the gown back today or tommorow since I was not there to drop it off.

Hi all,

I was washing Jeans a couple of days ago, in the bottom of the washing machine was a key. This key was all by itself. It isn't my key, I know it does not belong to the kids, and H had a pair of jeans in the wash with mine and the kids jeans.

So, I'm sure we can safely assume the key belongs to him. The question is, what/where does this key fit? It looks like a door key.

I also found 2 cell phone bills H hidden. I was not even looking for these, I was looking for something else I had misplaced.

I know how you feel my H was involved with his OW they had not met in person yet (he met her on the internet) and he totally forgot MY birthday I waited all day just for a happy birthday or something. Well of course it all made sense once I found out about the A. Hang in there!

Thanks - I am tired of hanging in there. Been doing this for over a year now. I'm probably just frustrated because I know the end is near. Ohter stuff is going on too. H's unemployment runs out if 10 weeks. If the union does not call soon, I don't know what we will do. I may or may not have a new job by then, if I don't, my paycheck is not enough for the family. He says he will have to go out as a traveler. The last time he did that, I had to get a second job because he was not sending enough money home to pay bills or when he did send it, it was not in time to pay bills. Since then we have added on a car payment that we did not have before.

I think she was living with him when he went out as a traveler before. It does not work if he does this. It will not work if he does this.

He will spend all his money talking to her.

I ask myself often, what makes her so damn special. I know he does not think I am special. If he does, he does not show it.

I'm trying to refinance the house. I hope we get it. It will drop our payment by about 300-400 per month. I don't think we will. We have about 3 late payments on the house. They are late by a day or two, but late is late.

I just want to cry. I really don't know why. Maybe it is because for the last few months out of necesity, I have been keeping myself under control and now I need to let go.

I have to admit the last few months have been pretty intense.

Sue,

You need some time to yourself, even just a day, just to sit back and learn how to breath again.
With no distaction's, you need to be able to let go at least for a little while. I do wish you the best and congrat's again on your final's.

Sue, I am just new to this site and already it has helped me just by being able to talk without someone(my H) saying oh no not this again. Any way I don't know all that you are going through and I don't know that I can even give you advise because I too just cry for no reason I ask my self why was she so special what am I chopped liver I gave him 25years of all of me she gave him three months and all but the time they met (for three days),it was long distance. Your situation sounds so hard it makes me feel like I should not even feel sorry for myself but I wanted to tell you something that as small as it is it may just be a little something you need. As I read your post I say this girl has personality she must be alot of fun, you see since D-day for me I seldom laugh and when I read about your mothers day and the rocks I laughed and all day I had that picture in my head and I would start to giggle and then I stopped and said to myself you are laughing how long has it been since I could find humor in anything so I just want to say thanks for the laugh. I wish I could make all your pain and hardships go away, but do know this in all the bad you did a little good for this girl!!!!

Somehow saying "Hi Sue" doesn't fit today.

I just want to cry. I really don't know why. Maybe it is because for the last few months out of necesity, I have been keeping myself under control and now I need to let go.

I have to admit the last few months have been pretty intense.

You need a rest, but you can't have it yet, and you know that, so it makes it all the more difficult. You can get part of an emotional rest by making plans. You know what kind of plans.

Sue, there are a lot of us that care what happens to you, and you know we do. I can't "pretend" that nothing is wrong, and neither can you. I can "imagine" that you will pass your tests, that you will get a very good job, and that your relationship with H will get better and that he will loose OW and commit to you.

You once said you are a strong women. I agree, or you never could have done what you have done.

By today you may be feeling better, I hope you are. If not, remember our prayers are for you, and you are a survivor, and a winner.

How's that leg?

SS

Hi all,

Thanks

Lets start with the leg - still attached, and still in a brace. On the bright side of my leg being in a brace, is, the muscles in that leg are getting streteched, I can now raise that leg higher than the other leg, I guess that will happen when you have to bend over to pick things up with one leg bent and the other leg streteched out for balance.
I see a specialist on the 30th. It does not hurt much, just inconvient now.

The key I mentioned in prior post, - found out where it belongs - to MIL garage. The sad part is, because of this situation, I am now suspicious over the smallest stuff, such as a key laying around.

Today was the first day of a week long class. I hope this helps with passing boards.

I really hope to see an improvement in my M after all settles down.

Sunday daughter had soccer practice. She was so funny. We get to the field, she runs up to the coach, yelling "Hey Coach, I have my brothers shin pads today"

A few minutes into the practice, she spots grandma. She yells "Grandma" and leaves practice to run to grandma and give her a hug. She then runs to the Coach and yells "My grandma is here".

At her age, it is mixed boys and girls, so Daughter is sitting with the other girls, and they are just gabbing away, ignoring the coach. It was so funny to see three little girls ages 4-5 just talking away, not paying any attention to the coach trying to get them to come practice

I know I need a break. If I need surgery, what better time to take a break. It maybe something that physical therapy will fix too.

Be back

I'm back - had to run real quick

Lets see,

This weekend was okay - H was not bad, when he was home. He went out Friday night, and Saturday night - I have no idea where or with who. Came home late. I know he didn't pay, we are broke so he could not pay. (unless there is the savings account he hinted at a couple of years ago). No I did not ask, I was not in the mood for a fight.

Ginger - I'm glad I was able to make you laugh. It does get easier. I have my good moments and my bad. When I have my bad, it comes in groups. Then, I am happy again.

Don't minimize your situation by comparing it to others. Most of us here suffering in our own way. If I was to compare mine to say Peachy over on Divorce forum, my H looks like Prince Charming compared to her Xh/STBX. It does not mean you are not in pain or dealing with issues surrounding your M.

When I first found out, I was really in rough shape. I had school to keep me focused on moving forward. The kids to keep me focused on what is important. I still have my occupational goal to keep me focused on the future. After all that is achieved, I can then deal with the issue of my M. My H, does not think there is anything wrong with our M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (I guess we have different definitions of what a good M is.

Today, I am in a good mood, I am not crying or sad, and H is, well, I don't know, and today, I don't care because I am not going to let thinking of him and is A spoil my mood today.

He did ask how my class went today. He has never asked before.

He did admit that he didn't think I would finish school He reasoning was, I always dropped out before. He fails to realize, that I never took classes for what I wanted before and I took classes that were logical with my current occupation and not for what I really wanted to do. That is the big difference here. Did I mention my H can be a real bonehead at times. (I think this proves it)

[ May 19, 2003, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Sue, thanks I needed to hear that especially today rough weekend for me!

Ginger - you are very welcome. Don't every sell your self short or minimize your own suffering because someone else has it worse.

Hi Sue, just thought I would say hi I have thought of you often today I was thinking how true your name is Sue with hope I know I have not been here long but I am really drawn to your personality and your words do give me hope! Today started out good but it has turned bad fast. Not all has to do with H but some does. I just don't know today I guess it's just one of those days.

Hi Gingersnap,

I decided a long time ago, I can be optimistic or I can be negative. I have my moments and when I do, I do. I indulge my moments of self pity, vent here, do what I have to do to get it out of my system, then I try to be hopeful again

I did find out that some of my classmates are experiencing the same things I am as far as feeling tired, and down, or wanting to cry. We think it is because we spent the last 2 years being intense trying to get through school and now, it has come to a stop.

Sue, I can only imagine what you have gone through over the last few years. Like you said it is at or near the end and time to go to the next level so you just let out a big sigh of relief and the emotions probably just come pouring out. I think I have come to a conclusion that I really need to do somethig just for me I have spent my life doing for everyone else. I have been married since I was 16 years old I'm 42 now I think what you said to me was so true you had school and your small children reasons to stay focused during the difficult times I have my job but my kids are older the youngest almost 15 and after I get home from work there are many times I just do nothing but think. My life has been so complicated over the last few years that right now I know I can not handle to much more stress but I do want to look for something to put my energy and focus into. I just feel like such a weak person I want so bad to be a strong woman but I do know alot of that has to do with my H and things he has done and said to me over the years and it was this A that has done me in. Do not get me wrong I have hope for brighter and better days it is just getting to them that is the challenge right now.

Hi Gingersnap,

It is easy for someone to bring you down, especially if you have been hearing it for year after year. What most fail to realize is that in some ways you are strong, you stayed. You have not totally lost yourself.

Growing up, I had an inner strenght, but I did not let it show. All through my youth, I was teased and picked on in school. I loved school and dreaded school. I dreaded the teasing and each day I hoped I would not be noticed. I wanted so bad to belong, and at the same time, I wanted to blend into the woodwork. At the same time, I felt like there was someone inside me dying to get out. I had very little self esteem by the time I graduated from HS. I wanted to be a nurse back then, I didn't think I had the brains to do it. By the time I was in my 20's I had built up my self esteem, then I met a man, an alcoholic. I didn't know he was a alcoholic. He kept it well hidden until we got engaged. Then the abuse started (or he tried, he was usually to far drunk to hurt me, except verbally). That tore me down. One day, I sat back and looked at myself, this was not the life I had envisioned for myself, so I dumped him. He had not intentnion of getting help, and I was not going to let him drag me into his personal H***hole. I deserved better. He went to treatment, wanted me to come back. I told him it was over, and because I cared, I support his decision to get help. I reeforced that it was over between us. Well, little did I know that to someone with a chemical dependency problem, just being supportive, he took to mean there was a chance for us. Took me another 4 years to totally get rid of him. By this time I met my H. We started out as friends. I was so embittered by relationships that I was not going to ever get involved again. Things progressed. My self esteem was not totally back, I was working on it. H and I, were not married, we had Son #1, then #2 came along. We were engaged. H met OW, H left. I was devestated. We got back together eventually, 2 years later we married. I thought OW was gone. Found out she wasn't, so here I am. During this time, I have regained my self esteem, made decisions that are in the best interest of me and my children. I keep my marriage in mind for these decisions, but, I also do my best to protect myself emotionally and the kids. Sometimes current H gets verbally abuseive, has threatened to be physical. I stand up to him. Of course I really believe he will not hurt me. If he did, he knows what will happen.

You have to tell your self that you are deserving of love, and a good relationship. Yes I have my set back, and I'm sure I will have more.

Wow what a life. I'm sure you read mine on my post the abuse the drugs he used and so on. I don't think he means to hurt me with his words but he says things like "you should feel lucky to have a man like me I am a real catch in the mexican community" (he is hispanic I am white)I told a friend this she said "sure he's a good catch he has a job" he tells me of all these women that give him thier phone #'s and invite him out I say do you ever say "no thanks I'm a happily married man" but for some reason that never crossed his mind. It is the things like this that have beatten me up over the years I want so much to be strong. I think one of the things I hated most when I talked to the OW was she seemed so strong and self confident and I did not like that I want to be that type of person I know its in there it is just trying to get it out that is so hard right now.

I need to find something acceptable to call him. I get tired of WH, and what I want to say is not appropriate for this website.

He sent OW this joke from Funnymailer: He might try honoring his vows.

********************************
A Change Of Vows

During the wedding rehearsal, the groom approached the pastor with an unusual offer.

"Look, I'll give you $100 if you'll change the wedding vows. When you get to me and the part where I'm to promise to 'love, honor and obey' and 'forsaking all others, be faithful to her forever,' I'd appreciate it if you'd just leave that part out." He passed the minister a $100 bill and walked away satisfied.

It is now the day of the wedding, and the bride and groom have moved to that part of the ceremony where the vows are exchanged. When it comes time for the groom's vows, the pastor looks the
young man in the eye and says, "Will you promise to prostrate yourself before her, obey her every command and wish, serve her breakfast in bed every morning of your life and swear eternally
before God and your lovely wife that you will not ever even look at another woman, as long as you both shall live?"

The groom gulped and looked around, and said in a tiny voice, "I do."

The groom leaned toward the pastor and hissed, "I thought we had a deal."

The pastor put the $100 bill into his hand and whispered back, "She made me a much better offer."

*************************************
Normally I would have found this amusing, I don't find it amusing that he sent it to her.

Her repy was

See it can be that bad No changing the vows.

So, what does he tell her, how bad does he think our marriage is?

[ May 23, 2003, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

hi sue, when did he send that note? was it just recently? I to find no humor exept that the wife got the better of her H. I wanted to ask you if the OW was still in the picture but I guess my question has been answered. Do you two talk about your marraige and your future? I know we didn't for a long time I knew we had some things to work out but that was normal in marriage he took it a step farther saying he thought I did not love him when he met her and that she was there when I wasn't. Exuse me but she was in a different state I was just in the other room!!!!! If he would have talked to me like he did her none of this would have happened.

Hey Sue,

What's the job situation looking like? Are you ready yet to start rocking the boat? Let me know.... I'm ready and willing to help, just say the word.

C

Hi Cerri,

Well, I have to take boards and pass them. Without that, I cannot get hired. Okay, I can get hired, contigent I pass boards. I cannot take boards until I have the money to pay for it. I just used the money for boards for an appraisal on the house. Normally I would not consider refinancing except it is lower the payment by quite a bit. We are asking for some cash to build a fence, and a little extra. If the refinancing goes through without a hitch, I will pay for boards with that.

I have to schedule for boards and study for them. After that, (assuming my knee is healed by then) I can find work as a RN. About half of my class has already started looking. My instructors suggested I wait. Walking in in a knee brace will not help my chances of employment. The person who can work will get the job over me.

I'm ready to rock the boat, except in the financial area. I look at it this way. I waited this long, what is a couple of more months.

Ginger - yes she is in the picture. I think she has been there from day one. If not day one, shortly after.

At christmas time, he bought me my first diamond ring. It is small, but I was excited about it. The first ring we looked at, I liked, we found out it was CZ. So, we moved over to the diamond section. What was affordable was small. H said fake diamonds equal fake marriage. I thought wow, and things were going really good. I figured she was probably out of the picture. Well, guess what, I think it has been a fake marriage the whole marriage.

As I look back, on the trip home from Vegas, he was rude and aloof towards me. He blamed it on being tired. I wanted us to have seats together, he didn't care. The best we got was each on an aisle across from each other. He hinted to the ticket clerk, that the farther apart the better. That should have been my first indication that there was a problem.

I even asked him if he was regretting marrying me. The whole trip home all he did was complain about this and that. Someone had bad gas, and WH kept making rude comments about it. Honestly it was embarrasing.

I dread rocking the boat, but it is what must be done. I don't want to live this way any more, I also don't want to be alone. I dont' want to start over, and I don't know if I could trust anyone again. I don't know if I can trust him again. I can't hide forever.

One more thing, the e-mail was sent a few days ago

Sue, I wish I knew what to say to make eveything ok. As I have been reading more on the MB site I find things that are more and more like me. I think of that first month after I found out, I don't know if you read my reply to you on my thread but it was about a phone # I found anyway the date on the paper was two days before christmas that ment he was still in touch with her then when I thought he was not anyway I am very sentimental and small gifts he gives me are memories well for christmas he gave me a diamond necklace it matched the ring he bought for our 25th aniversary (which I got only one month befor the A started) anyway I found out that he had told her all about my gift that really made me angry. I don't know maybe I'm just stupid. Anyway what I am trying to say is I know how you feel about the ring the excitment of things are going to be ok and then the let down the disapointment I don't know what to say except that if he is not willing to give her up why does he put you through all of this? It seems it would be easier on you to make a fresh start. I don't like to see any marraige end but do you really deserve what he is giving you? I know I don't know you well but like I said there is just something about your personality that I and I know others are so drawn to I believe you deserve the best that life has to offer. Please don't get me wrong I know we are all here because we want our marraige to work but am I wrong or does it not take both partners working on the relationship?

I know I deserve better. If I was not concerned about supporting 3 kids, he would have been history years ago. If kids were not involved, I never would have taken him back the first time.

His A has not yet been exposed. It will be soon. I have to get myself in a position where I can financially support the kids. That is why I need to get my new career going. The bigger paycheck will be enough to support us if need be. The CS will be the luxuries and it will pay for the kids activities and stuff.

I have been having a bad day on and off. I knew this day would come and many more i'm sure. For over a year I have been denying my grief about the discovery of the A so I could stay focused on school. Now, my focus is gone, except for boards. I decided come Monday it is time to sit down and study for boards. But for now, I need to acknowledge my feelings that I have been denying myself. Everytime I had a down period, I would give it some time, but I always redirected myself back to my goal.

Same o' same o'

I see I hope I did not upset you I did not mean to. I look at myself and I too would not be able to make it on my own although I work it would not be enough so I understand that. When things were really bad for us I always hung in there so I totally understand that. I always thought about the kids I still do even though they are all getting older that was one of the things he said upset him was that I put the kids before him.

I am with you there as far as having a bad day. I had two pretty good days yesterday I actually felt happy it has been a long time since I have felt happy but to day I don't know what happened I was at work and I started thinking about how predictable my H is I said He will call and say HI Ginger and drag out my name and then say how are you today i just wanted to tell you I love you. and sure enough he did just that it isn't that that in its self is bad but all I could think of was I bet he did the exact same thing to her call her at work say her name tell her hello I just could not get it out of my head it has made for a bad day that and the fact that I can never sleep I know it is a side effect of menapause but it really stinks I am so tired.

You didn't upset me. I was upset before I logged on.

I put kids and H on equal footing, depends upon situation. Sometimes he comes first and sometimes they come first. Except for school, I always came last. That is going to change.

YOu know, recently, he made a really stupdi comment with regards to how the housework slid while I was in school He said "you know I tolerated a messy house and did not say anything while you were in school" "you are out now". Okay, I was out for about a week before my one week class started which was all day every day. I spent the whole week and weekend that I was off cleaning with a bad leg. and he and the nerve to say that to me.

My classmates husbands took over the housework to help their wives and show their support. Nooooooo, I get Mr. I'm so wonderful I didn't complain, but it is now time for you to get back to it slave and get your work done. So, why do I want to make my marriage work. You know, she can have him if this is the way he is going to be. What a JERK!!!!!!.

If we divorce, he will marry again, I know him. It will be marriage number 3 for him. Maybe he is competeing with his dad for the most marriages.

I know how you feel about the no help around the house stuff. MY H acts like my 40hrs per week that I work are not as important as his. He never picks up after himself as a matter of fact last night he took off his swim suit in the front room and it was still there when I got home from work today. I don't mean to complain my H biggest fault is he is a work-aholic he works full time plus picked up a part time job which does help because of our situation (we were sued by the state for child support that is a whole story in itself)he goes to school two nights a week and this is all well and good my point is after that any tom,[censored] or harry that calls he is out the door to help them or do for them but where am I in this picture he will say "I'm sorry I know I didn't make anytime for you today" and this is an area that we talked about that he was not going to get his self to busy that he lost focus on us because I am the typical giver I will give and give weather I want to or not but when I get nothing in return I totally shut down and stop. I have tried to do all the things he asked of me after the A the things we talked about to help our M he gave me his list his wants and desires well I think he lost my list I haven't seen anything done off of it yet!

I don't know if I have the energy to continue with Plan A. I'm not sure if I did a good Plan A or not. To me I did.

Sue, good luck on the boards. Save your energy for that task right now. The boards are going to be easier if you can put yourself in a somewhat relaxed state of mind. Don't study yourself sick. I took the boards in California in 1980 .... Gawd!

I took the boards in Sacramento. My school chums and I drove to Sacramento together and got a hotel suite. (Nicer digs, and we shared expenses)The evening before the boards, my friends and I went out for a nice dinner together. We each had one glass of wine with dinner. We laughed, relaxed, and got back to the room early, took relaxing baths, and went to bed sleepy. Other students we knew, stayed up all night, drinking coffee and crammed. They did not do nearly as well on the exams! Do NOT study the day before. relax, have fun, and get SLEEEEEP!

Nursing is a wonderful profession. I took national RNP certfication exams pretty much the same way .... relaxed and well-rested, about 4 years later.

I'll do my special nursing board exam happy dance for you!!!! Works every time.

((( HUGS )))

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Sue, I agree with pepperband you need to put your energy on taking your boards after all this will become your livly hood this is what you have waited for, for a long time I think you said to me that you have always wanted to be a nurse well here you are as hard as it is and I may not be the best one to give advise after all I still try to make it through a day without being angry and hurt and I have not gone through near what you have it is time for you to take care of you! I don't know what your H is thinking. How is he with the kids? and do you two have any sort of a marriage relationship you know what I mean is he intamate with you at all? does he do anything to support you?

Sue would you mind if I e-mailed you?

Hi Sue,

thanks for helping me last night -together with Pepper (thanks to you, too) to make "Someone out there" understand that she had to take things step by step. I am really worried about her...checked today but there were no new posts.

Get your boards done ASAP, as long as everything you learned in school is still fresh.

Also #2: get done with it so you have time and energy to address the issue with your H's A.

My dear Sue: this can't continue like this indefinitely. Your H is a cake eater and you are suffering. I don't like to see you like this.

Recently I read again your first post to me from last year in August, where you talk about how important your kids are to you. I admire you for your determination to put them first. But don't forget about yourself. Get those boards out of the way!

When is the next board exam?

Hugs

Hi Liza,

I can take boards as soon as they have my stuff that i am qualified. They should have it by now. I now have to come up with the money for it. I expect to have the money in a couple of weeks. (I hope nothing falls through). We had the money and had to use it to pay bills.

H thinks I have money hidden and keeps spending as if he was working. Savings is almost gone. If we are lucky we can pay bills this month and that is it.

NP with regards to Someone_outthere. I hope she posts that she is okay. I'm concerned too.

[ May 26, 2003, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Well, today, I had troubles sleeping so I have been up since 4am.

The weekend has not been bad. Saturday H went to wash our comforter at the laundromat. I don't know why he wont do it here. But it took 4 hours. I know saturdays are busy, but it does not take 4 hours to get a machine. He says he fell asleep in his car. Did he or didn't he?

Sunday he was home most of the day, we went to a movie with the kids. Bruce Almighty, it was funny, there was a point where a scene was a trigger for me, so I started to cry. H just thought I was being sentimental. The older two liked it, the younger D didn't get it. I didn't think she would. Then we went to a park and had picnic. Went home, and H disappeared for about 5 hours. Says he went to his dads. (I don't believe that either). I hate being so cynical and suspicious. He could be telling me the truth, but I don't believe it.

The news this AM, had me thinking, kind of a morbid thought, but a reflection anyway. On the news a man died in a car accident, a taxi driver. He was probably just doing his job and he is in a fatal accident. If I died tomorrow, I would die not knowing if my H loved me or not. Okay, I'm done with the dark reflection, today is too sunny to be in a dark mood.

I have to run to the hospital and pick up my MRI x-rays for the Orthopedic to view at my appt. Fax some papers to a mortgage company. If our loan application goes through okay, we will be able to take advantage of the low interest rates available today. If that happens, I can afford to take boards. Fingers crossed all goes well. Our credit is less than perfect so I'm concerned we will be denied.

If we get approved, he will just find a way to spend it. Hopefully it will be on home improvements. Those I can live with.

I am so sick of a one sided marriage. Everything is about him. He has to be the center of attention.

I think I know why he encourages our D to sleep with us. This way he can appease the OW about him sleeping with his wife, after all, our D sleeps in our bed too. (You can always move a 4 year old after they go to sleep to their own bed)

Hi Sue, I too have had a rough week-end not really knowing why? I know my situation is not as grim as yours my H is trying it is the pain I can't get past. I do hope all goes well with your MRI and the house refinancing. It seems to me the more I read on this site many here are having money problems because of our situation a couple of months ago we had to move into a two bedroom apt. it was ok the first month or so but now sometimes I feel like the walls are moving in on me. Funny you could'nt sleep this morning I couldn't sleep last night not going to bed till after midnight very unuasual for me because on the days I work I get up real early. I just did not do well yesterday I don't really know why I guess it is all just part of this whole mess well I hope today goes better for you I will look for you later to see how things went.

I'm feeling okay today. H is, he says doing some work for his dad. I'll believe that one when I become a man, and since I am very happy being a women, I guess I will not believe that. He is probably meeting his dad at the bar. H is not a heavy drinker, but he will sit with his dad for hours while his dad gets himself plastered.

I hope H is not getting advise from his dad on our M. If that is the case I might as well call a laywer now. Taking advise from a man who is 4 or 5 times divorced is not the smarted thing he could do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Hi Sue,
It's hard to know just what to say. I know you are long over due for bringing this out into the light of day. Sometimes when you get upset, or hurt and afraid you get really angry, sometimes you divert your energy into other things. I believe I have seen some of that diversion lately.

I worry about that Sue that you don't talk about much. Not the one that does endless work and never rests. The one that is hurt, that cries, that so badly needs a rest and can't have one yet. I suggest you start making plans for dealing with all this, and let cerri help you. Use that energy for working on the problem, don't put any of it into anger and bitterness or doubt and fear. You are too valuable to waste time going there.

You know ( if you will think about it ) you are a much better person than you give credit for. It's not school I am talking about now. We both know you have some faults, but I hope you realize all the good you do for others, and I hope you know what you are worth. Don't dwell on what you can't do right now. Do the things you can do, and plan for the rest of it - so you can execute the plan when you are ready.

I know I tease you a lot, but I worry about you more than I tease. I am not afraid that you will fail, I worry about what all this will do to you and I worry that you are not happy, but should be.

Please continue to improve yourself, that's important too. Work on the things you know you need to work on. I believe that the happiness you seek will come to you as you continue to do all that you can do for your family. I hope you have faith in that too.

Like I said, It's hard to know what to say. I try to extend help and support, but words fail me. It's hard to send strength, and hope over the internet.

Don't give up - OK?

SS

Hi Sue, glad to hear today was ok I was thinking about you today wishing somehow I could help you. Is it expensive to take the boards where you live? I can't remember how much my sister had to pay when she took hers I know she got gifts of cash when she graduated and that helped her.

How does your H feel about your M? Does he ever say? Or is he like my H and thinks all is well in neverland!!!! whats with these guys sometimes anyway?

I know you don't want to hear this but try to hang in there. Do something nice just for you if you can, I know it is not always easy when you have three small kids,a job and house all to take care of but try to ok. Remember I have been there little kids a job and a man that never helped out, in a way I miss the days of the kids being small but sometimes I'm glad its over.

Talk to you soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Right now, I don't know what to say. I need time alone to collect my thoughts and stuff. Pretty hard to do with 3 kids, house, boards, bills.

I think I will have to take some time for me, and do some real thinking. It will take away from the kids. In the end, I will be a better mother. Right now, I'm going through the motions of being a mom. I'm better than that. I know I am.

I don't know if I will be around much. Maybe I will and maybe I won't. Right now, I don't feel I have much to contribute, not even to myself.

I will be okay. This I know. I've been in this position before. I know what I have to do.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I worry about that Sue that you don't talk about much. Not the one that does endless work and never rests. The one that is hurt, that cries, that so badly needs a rest and can't have one yet. I suggest you start making plans for dealing with all this, and let cerri help you. <hr /></blockquote>I don't want to talk about her. Not now. Unfortunately, there is not time for her. Everyone expects me to quickly take boards. I don't feel ready for them. I need to.

Avoidance, can be your friend sometimes. It is also the friend that sneaks up on you when you least expect it, wanting you to deal with what has been avoided.

Sue, I know that I am just new to the forum so I probably should not say this I might get kick off, but isn't it ok to be human? Can't you hurt,or be tired or just not be ready and still be ok? I don't know, but you know you best if your not ready for boards so what! Take them when you are ready. If you need time to be alone even if it means a little bit of time away from the kids, guess what they will survive. I have been there never doing for me always doing for everyone else I think thats why I am where I am right now I think I forgot who I am! Remember there are people who care and do understand. Sometimes you just cant be strong for everyone and thats ok you are ok. I hope you will keep in touch with me just talking to you helps me so much even if it is not all positive. You are special!!!!

(((Sue))),
I dont think its so much the boards you are avoiding, but the steps you know will come once you have passed.
Take some time for yourself, if you need to. Don't do things on other people's schedules. It has to come from you!!!
Everyone is here for you, Sue. We WILL NOT JUDGE YOU!!!!

Please take care. I'll check in on you next week.

Hi Sue, Just wanted to say Hi before I headed out for the day. I went to the e-mail exchange on this site and found an e-mail for you is it current? If so I would like to send you something via e-mail if thats ok. Just let me know if that is the right address. Have a good day. Ginger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I worry about that Sue that you don't talk about much. Not the one that does endless work and never rests. The one that is hurt, that cries, that so badly needs a rest and can't have one yet. I suggest you start making plans for dealing with all this, and let cerri help you.

Hey chickie..... you know I'm here when you're ready. Or if ya just wanna hang out and avoid life for a while I'm up for that too.

Hugs.... and good luck with kids and boards and stuff!

C

Avoiding life, I like that concempt. I can do that indefinetly. Don't face problems.

What I really want right now is for our refinancing to go through without a hitch. Then I can afford to take boards.

We will be able to get through the next month of bills even if H does not get called back to work.

Ginger, I think that e-mail address is still valid.

I'll be back later - have to put in pizza for little princess

I was supposed to go to son's counseling today. I got sick. H was supposed to go too. H went with son. Usually H tries to get out of these appt. H survived and said it was not bad. Maybe he will make an effort to go in the future when he can.

I applied for a job. I figured this one I can safely apply for. They are not accepting new grads until September/October - I figure I should have passed boards and my knee should be well into recovery by then.

I don't really want to work at this facility, but it is a job and an application submitted.

I saw a couple of new grad positions at another local hospital. I cannot apply for those until I know the status of my knee injury. I printed them off for future reference, hopefully they will still be there when I can submit my apps.

I printed off another listing for a different hospital. I'm going to highlight the ones that suit me, and send in applications later.

I will probably apply at the smaller hospitals that are in the suburbs of the metro area or just outside the metro area. Still close enough to the metro to drive to without it being a major inconvience.

One place I will apply to, my H's aunt works there, so that might help with getting an interview.

[ May 29, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue, You sound a little better today I hope all is well. It is funny you call your D the little princess thats what we call our granddaughter she just turned one last month she is so precious. When my D was expecting and we found out it was going to be a girl I told my D she would have to give up her throne the new princess was on the way! She has been a real blessing in my life a little sunshine when times have been so dark.

She gave herself the name princess. Lets see, she has been Princess Fiona (shrek), Rapunzel (barbie movie), Cinderella, and sometimes she just claims to be a princess. (I don't think I have to worry about a low self-esteem with this one)

Someday when the Princess meets up with my mad inventor child we will need to be certain that all power tools and makeup are locked safely away.... maybe hire a security company!! LOL

C

Scary, power tools, make up and two small children. Do you think a Security Company could handle them? LOL

Good news, I'm out of the brace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Bad news, I'm walking witha cane <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Surgery is scheduled for a week from today. I will be out of work for two weeks.

Dr. says I should be back normal 3-6 weeks from surgery.

Part of my cartilage has broken off, so they have to go in take out the broken piece and smooth out the edge.

Here is the really cool part - I can watch if I want to. Of course I want to watch.

Scary, power tools, make up and two small children. Do you think a Security Company could handle them? LOL

Probably not!!!

Here is the really cool part - I can watch if I want to. Of course I want to watch.

ooohhhh.... meee tooo!!! I got to watch an ER doc pull a severed tendon back outta my hand and reattach it. That was way cool. My D is having surgery in a couple of weeks to remove a cyst from her neck, she said she doesn't think they'll let me watch... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

C

I had a cyst removed from my back. They look icky. (The cyst). I think they will let you watch if you ask. I was with my D when she had her stitches, but then again, she was 2 years old at the time.

When I was 13 I watched the Dr. stitch my knee.

Oh yeah,

I'd let you come and watch. I have to be at the surgery center at 6:30 AM. I don't know if they would let you.

We are going to see if kids can stay at Grandma's Thursday night, H will drop me off, get kids to school and come back for me. I maybe done and I may not be done by then

Part of my cartilage has broken off, so they have to go in take out the broken piece and smooth out the edge.

I bet between you and cerri, you could fix it with power tools, and makup. Maybe if you used cookware too?
You gals are something else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue, there are a lot of us that care what happens to you. You have my prayers for a successful recovery.

I know you don't like to think about some things, but I almost bet that those thoughts slip into your mind when you would like most for them to stay away. I think you will never keep them away for good until you deal with them. Planning what you will do is almost as good as doing it sometimes. My feeling is that you need some kind of progress. Planning will give that to you at least in part.

I don't know everything but I worry that one day you will have had enough and just end everything. I can't help but think that working on it a little bit now and thinking about what you want to do will help to prevent that from happening.

In your dreams( best case,) how does this work itself out? In other words, describe the time line of what could happen in your life and in your marriage the next few months if it were to go really, really well, and make you the happiest. What would that look like?

SS

I'll be sure to check in on you soon!

Keep your chin up!

Hi Sue,

Sorry to hear about your leg. If its not school its something else huh. Anyway sorry I haven't posted much lately, just been in la la land.
Do you have a date for ur boards yet? I have 2 1/2 months of school left. It's not too bad now. I think if I can just get on a schedule I'll be fine since clinicals are only held in the day time now.
How are things with ur H? Hopefully better#?!@ Anyway let me read more of your thread and get to bed. New clinical rotation tomorrow = boring orientation:)
melinda

Melinda - yours is the easiest to answer so I will answer you first.

Boards - not until I have the money to register. Since H is laid off, we cannot afford it. We had the money, since he thinks we have a money tree in the back yard, we cannot afford it.

Refinance - well, sort of fell through. Message was, all looks good, they need H to have a paycheck. When I was in earlier, he told me he got loans for 3 other guys from H's union.

We have enough to get through June maybe. That is if H stops spending like we have a money tree in the back yard.

Time to cut out the luxuries. Except H will not do that. I will, he won't. Such as cell phone, not needed, internet, not needed, cable, not needed, Everquest subscription, not needed. Right there is about 200-300 saving per month.

Which is about what we are short for bills every month.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I don't know everything but I worry that one day you will have had enough and just end everything. I can't help but think that working on it a little bit now and thinking about what you want to do will help to prevent that from happening. <hr /></blockquote>I might already be at that enough point. Honestly, I do not know.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />In your dreams( best case,) how does this work itself out? In other words, describe the time line of what could happen in your life and in your marriage the next few months if it were to go really, really well, and make you the happiest. What would that look like? <hr /></blockquote>In my dreams what does it look like,

I would have the money to pay for boards right now, I would be ready to take boards, and pass. I would already have a job lined up working during the day doing what i really want to do.

This would happen today.
H would realize where he went wrong, and he would come to me and tell me what he did, that he is sorry, that he ended it, and will do anything to make it work between us, including giving up the softball teams I have issues with, going to counseling.

First week:
He would send a NC letter because I asked him to,

He would change his cell phone number, and let me have access to it, and the bills.

He would make an effort to help around the house.

he would validate my feelings instead of dismissing them as irrelevant

He would do the same with out oldest son

He would stop keeping his life with his friends seperate from his life with his family.

And from there things will improve.

I should quit dreaming about what will not be. All it does is set me up for disappointment.

SS-

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I bet between you and cerri, you could fix it with power tools, and makup. Maybe if you used cookware too? <hr /></blockquote>I don't suggest I get near cookware. Most things are burnt by the time I'm done cooking. (While I'm cooking one thing, I start something else and lose track of time)

Hi Sue, I haven't done well to post replies latley been in a really down mood a long hard week. I just read your post and thought wouldn't life be wonderful if dreams came true all would be so much eaisier and life so much better. I just recieved my book SAA I only read the first paragraph and broke down I sure hope I will be strong enough to read the book and it will help. Anyway I just wanted to let you know I have been thinking of you.

One more thing - I'm going through the bills and mail and stuff. In it is a letter from H's benefit office. He leaves all that for me, it pertains to medical bills and what the ins. paid and didn't pay.

There is a letter, stating that they received a statement for services for our daughter from a Hospital in the southern part of the state. About 1 - 2 hours away. And the ins. company has on record that my ins. is primary, and this statement was submitted to them as the primary. Now, one, I was at work that day, two, I know she was not hurt that she had to go to the hospital that day, and why would she be at a hospital 2 hours away? This date was close to when H was laid off.

So, either the benefit office made an error, the hospital made an error, or there is something I need to know more about.

Hey Sue that is really strange. Did your D ever say she went to the hospital and that Daddy took her? Who lives two hours away? Does your H ever just take the kids for the day by himself I know my H never did when my kids were little. You need to call the ins. as soon as possible on this one.

Hey Sue,

Sorry to hear about ur financial stuggle specially having a H that thinks he has a money tree in the backyard. I was at least fortunate that my soon to be X-H didn't think he had one of those because he grew up in a single parent home with really not much of anything.

Don't worry though once you get in the door and start working you'll make it. My mom was also a parent of 4 that has a H (not my dad) that thinks he had a money tree in our backyard that never worked till just a few months ago. She was a CNA that did the ladder to RN and by the time I was 13 I started to see the difference(first time I got brand name shoes(=.) You might work lots and lots of hours but you'll see that what you make money wise will be worth it. I do have to say one thing though: just don't forget about the kids.

My mom worked so much that I pretty much did anything I wanted and that's how I ended up in the military because I needed something to get me on track. I wasn't wild or anything but I did many many things that if I had more supervision wouldn't of. I won't mention what because of the profession I'm about to enter but it was the past so I'll leave it there.

Melinda

I'll make it. I'm not worried about that. Even if I have to work part time to start and keep my current job (not my ideal situation), I will do that. It will only be temporary until I have some experience and can move into a position with more hours.

As far as the bill from the hospital goes, I called the hospital, they cannot find a record of it. I left a message for the benefits office to see what they have. I will have to wait until tomorrow to find out more.

I hate that H has to see us hit it hard before he wakes up.

This is the way he is. If he wants our M to work, he will have to risk losing me or lose me first. If he leaves in Plan B, I don't know if I can take him back. Not after all this time.

H's mom called earlier tonight, said she had to work and could not watch the kids. H had a cow, because that meant missing softball tonight. He gets his mom to watch them, she goes to work late, and commits H's brother to watch them. H's brother was late getting home from work. So H's mom is late for work. H's brother is mad at H. I told him, don't complain to me, it does not do any good. H does not listen to me. Complain to him.

H will not give up this night for ball, I wonder why. Okay, I think I can figure it out, can you guys?

My family refuses to watch the kids on Mondays for that reason. According to BIL, H said he would be there by 8pm to get kids, it is now 8:20.

Brain dead is brain dead I guess. MIL is such an enabler.

Sue,
I would say the first two things on your list to tackle would be taking your boards, and getting that knee fixed. If you have to put the rest of your money in another account, get another job, move out and let him fend for himself, get assistance from the state or the feds, or whatever, then do it. I know you are working on it. When that is done, you can discuss the list with H. I don't think he will come clean on his own, and you don't either, but you have your list of boundries all written out, so you have done some of the work you needed to do anyway.

Things will continue to get worse before they get better, but you have done this part before and you " are one tough women" and you can do this, and you know you can. ( that's a quote from you, a long time ago.)

There have got to be ways pay for the tests, what have you found out so far? I know you are looking for ways to make it work.

What I want to do right now is help you get through. I don't do hugs very well, but you know I care. Oh, what the heck. {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}.

I wish there was a way to turn off the bad stuff while you recover and take tests, but I don't know of one. I do know that you can make it work anyway.

I do know sometimes pretending doesn't work, but for these things, the real thing will work anyway, and you know it will. You know you are going to make this work, don't you. And that is a statement, not a question.

Sue, after we have been around a while, we know. We've been there too, we had to make it work a time or two also. We understand, and we care. Hang on until we can all laugh about it on the other side of this one.

I recommend letting all the other go right now. Don't worry about ball games, or all that other stuff. Get the rest you need when you can, you'll need it. Do the research and get your boards funded. We'll use your wish list later to help you confront H and set boundries.

I have a great deal of respect for you. For what you have done, for who you are, and for what you will yet do, but I don't know how to get it across very well. This will have to do.

SS

hi sue,
check the hospitals medical records! they should have a copy of what happened! that's if something did happen! tell them that your doctor is requesting them, it will be free that way! that is so strange!
Ali!

HI Sue, Thanks for stopping by my thread just to say hi. I have missed you. I haven't really talked to you for a while I felt you just needed a breather, is all ok? Sue do you have anyone you can ask for help? It is ok you know. I know that your surgery is comming up and I hope all will go smoothly with that while your getting back on your feet that will be a good time for you to think things through and get yourself ready mentally for boards. I don't mean doing alot of studing but a lot of relaxing do you remember what that is? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Anyway drop me a line on my thread or here I always check in I really miss you. Take care I'll be looking for you.You are a very special person and have touched my life more than you will ever know, THANKS!!!!

I worry.

Should I?

SS

I am such a blonde twit... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> double post.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ June 09, 2003, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]

Hey Sue, long time no hear... you ok? You know you can call or email me if you need to talk too..... We can meet at the Mall and eat cookies and drink tea at Caribou if you need to just vent.... Let me know.

C

No need to worry, surgery went well, drugs, drugs and more drugs. I slept most of Friday, Saturday. Sunday I cut back on my pain meds, didn't need them, I spent sunday getting the drugs out of my system. I was sooooo groggy. Monday playing catch up, and took daughter to dance rehersal, Tueday spent it running around with H. He cashed in all his vacation time so we can have the money to help us get by and do some minor landscaping such as some bushes I found on sale. One of those parking lot nursuries was closing down, picked up bushes for 3.00 each. Watch H put them in. Today, first day I've had to sit down comfortably at the computer.

I have some pain in my knee, not bad. I won't take anything stronger than tylenol today. Today is Daughters dance recital. I will not miss that today. We spent the morning putting her hair up in curlers so she will have curles tonight. I have to get one more ticket today, H's aunt wants to go.

H has been really good to me since surgery. Even kissed me one night.

Experience has taught me, that this does not last long.

Found out it was an error at the benefit office with regards to bill from Hospital for daughter.

C- I'd be happy to meet to vent or just chat. It is called time out for me.

And everyone- thanks for your concern. I know I'm usually not away this long.

[ June 11, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

sue, so glad to hear all went well with the surgery.I have done something to my shoulder so I know what you mean about the meds. I went to dr on mon. and I think he made my condition worse i was in pain when i got to his office but by the time he messed with my arm the pain was so bad it brought tears to my eyes i had to fight not to cry it hurt so bad. spent yesterday on the couch and in the bathroom throwing up because of the pain meds i don't know which is worse. my arm really hurt even to type this but i just wanted to say hi and that i have really missed talking to you. glad to hear H did a little something for you during all this who knows maybe he will relize what he has and what he will loose if he doesnt get his act straight real soon. talk to you soon.

Maybe he will.

Trying to get the bills paid today, find one more ticket for the recital today. This dance studio makes a big deal of the recitals.

I have to get daughters hair fixed in a couple of hours.

Oldest son does not want to go. I might try to find someone to take him. I have not decided.

Ginger - I hope your arm feels better.

What is wrong with it? I have neck and shoulder pain alot. It is mostly because of sitting and working at a computer alot and my work station used tobe ergonomically correct, since I've injured my knee, it is no longer correct. I will be now that my knee is fixed. I see a chiropractor for my neck, shoulder and stuff

oops double post

[ June 11, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

sue,i don't really know my sister came over sun. night to bring me something for pain and she thought it looked dislocated. on mon. when i went to dr. he said from x-ray that it was not that the sack (i don't remember the name for it)that is under the shoulder was inflamed and that was causeing the pain anyway he was messing with my arm and just made it worse if you ask me. like i said before i live in a small town and one thing we lack is good dr. i had to pick the best of the worst to go and see.so really i don't know what i did all i know is the pain is incredible and i shouldn't be typing but after two days of being in the house alone i'm bored. my H is always so busy that i'm last on the list.talk to you soon.

Sue,
Very glad for a little good in your life.

I have noticed that some things you can't pretend. The doctor used to tell me to pretend it didn't hurt. That never worked very well for me.

Happy thougts all arround. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
SS

I'm glad to hear your surgery went well and that you have only a lil bit of pain. Take care

Daughters dance recital went well. I was disappointed and amused. Her pictures were not in as expected. They are stuck at the Canadian border. For some reason, they won't let them cross the border.

The owner of the studio said she will call everyone when the pictures come in.

She was so cute up on stage. I cannot wait for next years class to start up.

Soccer is going well. The kids love it. I have to stay on top of schedules so uniforms are clean.

My marriage, who knows how that is. Righ now, I am so frustrated. H has been decent to me, but I know he still sees and calls her. Too many disappearing acts. Not as may as before.

H went out of town. Claims he is working, got a chance to work for a week. However, when I ask questions such as where, how much is it paying, are you depositing the money into the account, he evades the questions. I drove by her house, I wanted to see if his car was there. The last time he went out under the pretence of looking for work, she had the same week off in Vegas, which is where he ended up. His car was not there, but I did see a playhouse in the back yard. The same kind I want for my daughter. As far as I know, OW is the only one living with her parents. So, is the playhouse hers? Or did the parents put it there for their grandchildren? I can only wonder at this point.

I have to get back to studying for boards. The sooner I get that done, the sooner I can take boards and find a job.

HI Sue, You sound sooooo busy. Dance recitles are fun alot of work.I remember my youngest D at hers I was so proud my H however never stuck around to see the whole thing but that is just how it was then. My kids are all getting older youngest is almost 15 where did the time go I wish I could go back and have them little again life seemed simpler than. Anyway just wanted to say hi and keep in touch good luck with the studies.

H went to recital. He will not miss much for her. I bought flowers for H and boys to give to her at the end. I was in the dressing room getting her stuff when H handed them to her. He said her eyes lit up. She asked if everyone got flowers. H told her only if their parents got flowers for them. In the car on the way home, she kept smelling them, and saying how beautiful they are. She always uses words like delicious, beautiful, scrumptous. It is a delight to listen to her.

On a sad note, my middle child cried when he found out H was leaving for a week. H said to his dad, the he was afraid I was going to kill him. He bases that on I yell at them. I only yell when they don't listen. And usually I ask 3 - 4 times before I start yelling. The things I yell about are , time for bed, when it gets to be an hour past bedtime, asking is no longer appropriate, or how about asking 3 plus days in a row for them to pick up their room. When I start yelling is when I cannot walk in their room.

Daughter was upset about dad leaving, she wanted to know who's arm she will sleep on. They started a routine, they usually lay down together at her bedtime, she lays on his arm. After she is asleep, sometimes she is moved to her bed and sometimes she isn't. I've also noticed that there are times, H brings her to our bed so she is in the middle. I've wondered why he encourages her sleeping with us. Is it because he tells OW that we don't have sex because our daughter sleeps with us???? I could see him doing that.

Your kids sound like they really love thier dad. Too bad he can't treat you that way, what is wrong with these men. My H has been doing better he is just so busy no time for me I find myself putting up that wall of protection always afraid now that some thing bad is going to happen I hate this feeling. My son is home for the weekend it has been going ok he will be home for good next month then the real test of marriage recovery will start. It hasn't been as hard right now we are alone.

As for the yelling I did my share when the kids were small, as a matter of fact I got after my H today we have to live in this apt. and it is small and he just makes a mess every where it just gets to me after a while especially right now when I am in pain and know I am limited in what I can do.

How I understand that one. I can do some stuff around the house. I can do most of what I used to do, but not at the same pace. I have to take breaks in between, where before I was on contant go.

Oldest son is home tonight. Other two want to stay at grandma's. They stayed there last night, it was so lonely here. I'm glad one of my kids wanted to stay home tonight. I don't think I would do very well if H and I divorce and he has children every other weekend. I know I would adjust, but I would not like it.

we should look into messenger so we can have a real time chat!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I use to hate to be alone,I have gotten use to it now. Some times I think too much though when I am by myself but through all this mess I have enjoyed my time alone to cry and think and who knows what else. My H usually calls me when he works the late shift like tonight but he does it early it makes me feel like he does it to get it out of the way.

Oh by the way my H did do the flower thing for my D when she had her recital that was really nice she loved them. Your D sounds like my youngest when she was little always using those big words we got the biggest kick out of her,now she is a teenager they are not as much fun.

I am not looking forward to her teen years. In some ways she reminds me of me and the stories my mom told me.

In some ways my mom gave me too much freedom, in other ways, I think I would have took it regardless if she gave it to me or not.

I think she could have given me more encouragement, she let me quit things too early. Because of it, I learned later in life to stick things out. So, I do not let my kids quit things until they know what it is they want to quit. Such as hockey for the boys. My middle child wanted to quit when he was learning to skate. I told him, he started it, he will finish it. I will let him quit when he knows how to skate, and knows the game. If he still does not like it, he can quit. He wants to be a goalie next year.

So true,If I had it to do all over there is alot that I would do different. With my oldest D I try tell help her in raising her kids by letting her know the things I feel I did wrong with them and hope that she can take it and use what ever part she wants to help I don't want to be the kind of mom that is always telling them you shouldn't do that and so on.The nice thing is now that they are older they will tell me how lucky they were to have me as thier mom, the sad part is none of the kids are real close to thier dad he just never had time for us. He is a much better grandfather than he is a dad.

At least he learned. My dad spent more time with my neice than he did with us girls. Took her to the park, playground, all that stuff.

My D always says to me gee dad never did that stuff for us maybe he is trying to make up for what he did not do! I don't know maybe the reality of if he made a different decission it would all be gone right now. He loves my D little boy so much sometimes I think more than me I tell him I think that is the reason he stayed was for that little guy. He is a special little boy my D lived with us all through the pregnancy and until he was 8 months old it was hard to see them go. Her H now BF then was being a [censored] and did not know what he wanted but for us it was a joy to have them here that little guy is 3yrs.old already such a sweetie.

I think you could understand how my MIL felt when I moved out with the kids.

She owned the duplex we lived in when he first met OW. MIL lived upstairs, we lived down.

H left after I accused him of cheating. About 6 months later, I moved. I had decided it was time to get on with my life. I did not feel I could do it living in her home. I think that is hey H was nervous about my getting an apartment of my own. I think he felt that as long as I lived at his moms, I was his.

After I moved, he changed towards me. I thought it was over between OW and H. (H was BF or XBF at the time). We got married two years later. Now I wonder if it ever ended. Even when he proposed us getting married, not that I think back, he did not say he loved me. By this time I had moved back to his moms. H was on disability and I could not afford my apartment any longer. We came back from Vegas married, I assumed H was going to move in with us. He did not. Said lease was not up. So I said we move in, he said it was an adult only apartment bldg. I said fine, then we pay the rent, and he moves in with us. He belonged with us since we are married. I almost divorced him at that time.

Yes in a way as far as the kids are concerned,but I would not want to live with my MIL and I don't think any DIL wants to live with or near the inlaws. You sound like you have been through so much with this man, how do you feel about him do you love him? I know I have been through alot with my H and I have tried and tried not to love him but I just can't I always thought if he cheated that would be it.

I even thought I can take no more of not being first in his life his A should have been my out but instead I just relized how much I loved him it sounds crazy I don't really understand it. Sometimes I don't know if I am just afraid of life alone.

Do I love him, I don't know. Walls are up, so it is hard for me to know.

After reading SAA I understand a little more about how we love, for me right now there just has not been enough love deposits into my bank from him,I love him I just don't have that "LOVE"feeling and that is what I want. For you probably the same if you had some big deposits made you could probably answer the question differently!

Boy do I understand about the walls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think I can answer that question.

Yes, unfortunately I do. It would be so much easier if I didn't.

He called this morning, his voice sounded funny, you know that guilt tone to it. You know the one, where he is listening to your tone. So either she is with, or he lied about what this trip is about and he is trying to figure out if I know.

I was upset all afternoon, spent most of it crying. I'm so glad grandma has the kids, it would be so much harder for me to be a good mom with the mood I am in.

I know what you mean, sometimes I wish I could say I don't love him and all the pain would be gone. As for the kids and the crying I took my son back today I was in a real down mood heard about another cheating H a man I always respected as a good H I'm beginning to think all men are pigs. Anyway all I could think of today was my H A and so the drive home I spent crying. When I got home I told my H I don't know how I will do when we are not alone and I don't have the freedom to cry when I need to.

My knee has been hurting all day, I don't know why. I'd take a Vicodin, except I don't have anyone to drive me to PT tomorrow, so I will have to see if Tylenol will help somewhat

Melinda - how is school going. I couldn't find your thread, since you read here I will ask here. You are almost done. Keep up the good work

[ June 15, 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Thats wierd my arm has been in pain all day also and driving didn't help I am going to take a vicadin when I go to bed. The bad thing is they give me a headache in the morning.

They keep me groggy the whole next day. I cannot function after taking them. They work for the pain, but keep me loopy

Sue we really need to hook up together on messenger so we can have a real time chat! Interested???

Maybe I will take 1/2 a tablet. It should be enough to take away the pain so I can sleep.

I'm sorry you are hurting too

its nice to know I'm not alone. My pain is nothing compared to yours!

never minimize you pain, whether it is physical or emotional. Pain is what the person experiencing it says it is.

thanks you always have a kind word,but remember you too have pain and you need to not look at it for less than what it is. Have a good night.

you too. I'm going to finish watching a movie and go to bed.

By the way, if you don't mind my asking what area are you from?

Hi Sue, Sorry I logged off last night but H was home and I felt I needed to spend time with him however it did not turn out to be good.

I had a bad weekend a rollercoaster of feelings after hearing of these other unfaithful H's and looking at both of them as men that would never cheat. Needless to say I had a bad night,and took it out on my H. I told him my deep feelings I don't know if he could handle it or not but the truth is I don't want to deny him of sex,because I know that would become a real issue in him starting up again with OW, or maybe someone else(I really don't think he is the type to just go around having A's he never has)but the truth is every time he touches me I can just see him with her and it drives me crazy and I just can't get in the mood I feel like I am in a real catch 22 situation.Can you relate?

He tells me things like "boy did I screw up and I will pay for it the rest of my life" it hurts but the truth is he did and now I am in pain and it is going to take awhile for it to go away.I know that he felt bad because he came and had lunch with me at work and when I got home he had done the dishes and was in making the bed!!!!He NEVER does that not unles he is trying to make up for something. Well I wont bore you any more I would like to say that I really enjoyed chating the past two nights you never answered my question though,would you be interested on meeting on messenger once in a while to chat? I know you are busy but maybe once a week or twice a month it would be nice. And I live in California.What about you were are you from? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey Sue,

Sorry to hear that your knee was hurting. Did the 1/2 tab of vicodin work? So your H is off on a mysterious trip again huh. I know how your feeling and all the questions and thoughts going through your head. Sorry that the evil people made you go on the roller coaster again.

Anyhow I'm glad you found me. I'm going through a terrible time right now so I've been on MB alot for the support.

I am almost finished with school. No doubt the end is near. I've decided to take the next semester off to relax and study for the boards and find a job. I'm gonna start picking up applications this weekend. Some places hire new grads. I'll have to start on the RN thing in a few months though because I know if I wait too long I'll never go back.

I need a job for sure soon because my MGIB isn't cutting it and my sons daycare rates went up by $40 dollars a week. Isn't that ridiculous. My brothers are on summer vacation and said they would help for just a lil bit of $. Thank god for family.

YOu know what this is your thread sorry for blabbering away. I hope you feel better Sue. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Melinda

Hi Sue,
Just checking in on you. I won't say much, becaue you don't need to get all stired up about things, and if I tell you things are fine, you will call me a lier.

I read back and got caught up on how you are doing. Wish I could help more.

Still praying for you, and still have faith in you.

For what it's worth -

SS

Hi Sue,
I love my H too. It makes me uncomfortable even thinking about drained Love account.

SS, hi. I am lurking, will post on my thread probably next week. Nothing positive to add, other than tonight have another session.
FBOW

Ginger - I don't know if we have IM, I can check it out. I go back to work next week, so I cannot do that in the evenings. I do peek in on MB at work. I break up my breaks through out the evening. I've never been one for long breaks.

The sex thing - used to be hard for me. Now it is not. I don't think about them. Why should I. (once it a while it is a problem)

Melinda - you can babble anytime you want.
Good luck to school, and do the RN thing, it pays better. I don't know about your area, but here, alot of the LPN do the same work and RN, just get paid less. There is some things LPN's cannot do, but in the day to day of the work, the basics are the same.

SS - You are a big help. You and FBOW have been there from the beginning. It gets hard to know what to say when the situation is same o' same o'

H has been calling every morning. He never did that before. I'm pretty sure she did not go this trip. That is a relief.

Hi Sue, I understand how busy you are I just figure it would be an easier way to chat. Get to know each other a little better!I don't even know if the time thing would work are you west coast or east,or in the middle somewhere?

Maybe it is just me or part of the recovery I seem to dwell on them together more now then I did when I first found out it seems so strange.

Glad to hear your H has been checking in, that must make you feel a little better. Has he told you where he is yet?

Talk to you soon.

All I knew was that he was in ND. Now, how can someone spend a week in ND and not know where they are??? I can only laugh to myself at the idiocy of his thinking. If I don't then I will get mad and frustrated. I don't have time for that.

Ginger, maybe we could chat once in a while on weekends. I dont' know if we have IM or not. I will have to check it out.

H came home this morning. I've never traveled by RV, so I don't know how well one sleeps in those. H was too well rested. When he called he said he was in on town which takes about 40 min from there to our house. He was home about 15 min later, which is about the time it takes to get from her home to ours.

H is talking about us taking the kids to FL in a couple of years and wants us to start planning next summers family vacation. It is really hard for me to make plans for these type of events knowing what I know. I don't want him talking of this stuff in front of the kids because it may not happen. I don't want to plan on a trip that may not happen. I've convinced him we should start a savings account for the FL trip. We want this to the trip of a lifetime for the kids. You know the one that you save for and money is almost no object while on vacation and you don't have to count the pennies. It makes me want to cry when I think about him planning a family vacation like this. Are we going to be a family?

Hi Sue,
I missed you all week I guess you have been real busy,when I got home from work today I said to myself I wonder if Sue's H came home yet or not?What is he thinking and did he bring home a paycheck he was gone working right?Wasn't that what he told you?

Wow a family vacation it would be great and the kind you spoke of with no worries of money, thats the best kind but plans for a year from now,I don't know maybe he is coming around. Has he ever confessed to you about the OW? Or does he think you just don't think anything in your M is wrong? MEN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well I just wanted to say hi, its been a rough week emotionaly for me I don't know what my problem is.Just life I guess. I read here and there are so many that have it worse than me I should just quit crying and move on but for some reason it just isnt that easy.
Take care talk to you soon.
Oh yea do you go back to work tomorrow?If so good luck take it easy on the knee. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm supposed to go back to work tomorrow.

He says he has not been paid yet.

He does not know I know. He thinks that I think all is okay

Hi Sue, I just logged on was reading some threads how are you tonight

You mean to tell me that he thinks you have no idea about OW?

Hi Ginger - that's correct. He thinks I'm in the dark about it.

OK Sue, please do not be mad for what I am about to say but I thought my H was the only man out ther wearing that big ugly sign that reads "I'M DUMB AND I DON'T GET IT" LOL

I am so sorry this must be just to much to handle at times I dont know how you do it. I think for the last three days my H and I have been arguing I know it is againts the rules but he lies to me about stupid stuff and I hate it.It makes me think if he is going to lie about something so dumb what else is he lying about?

I could go on and on but you don't need that so I will just say have a good day and talk to you soon.
You are always in my thoughts and prayers I hope it helps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How much longer can you take this Sue? Your H makes me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> !

You seem like such a nice person, down to earth and smart. You don't deserve this treatment. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hi Ginger - I'm not mad. We all get frustrated

FMWB - Hi, glad to hear from you. I know, same o' same o'. As frustrating as it is that I have been living with this, and I want changes, I keep in mind what is important. I have to achieve my goal. Right now, it would be very difficult for me to confront. I don't have the money for boards, I'm counting on getting it from him. (He went back to work today, I know there will be enough for me to take it from the joint account soon). At this time, I cannot work as a RN even if I passed boards. My leg has loss so much strength, it was hard for me to make to to work today. I did it. It should start improving soon.

I know I deserve better. I will have that too. Either with him or without him. Either way, I am okay with it. I don't deserve anything less.

And thanks for telling me you think I am nice. My H does not think so. But then again, he says that to try to get his way. (what a big spoiled baby) OOOOOPPPS I think that was a LB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You are nice Sue and you seem to have yourself together wish I could say that for me.
Sorry to hear about the knee I was wondering how you were going to do at work today.My arm is much better I guess the Dr. knew what he was talking about after all the meds. did thier job.

And about the LB I wont even tell you about the ones I have had latley!!!!

It took a while for me to get to where I am at. And there is quite a few times I slide backwards. Right now I cannot afford to slide backwards.

Can I ask you something Sue, it has been six months since D-day for me and the pain is still so intense is this normal or am I just a big baby and need to get off the boob.
It seems like every thing I read everyone just goes on, they just seem to be doing so much better than me.What is wrong with me.Why cant I get past this.

No you are not a big baby. You cannot put a time limit on these things.

The first time H cheated on me, I was a wreck. It was someone where around the 6 month mark I started improving. Note I said "started". I was no longer obsessing about what he was doing and who he was doing it with. Everything still bothered me about it. There was no way I was going to allow this person around my babies. They were my babies to protect from the evils (OW) of this world. Honestly, I really did not get over it until about a year ago. That was when I realized I was very angry about it, and being angry was only going to turn me into a bitter old women. I knew I had to let go of the anger.

I've read here that for some, the second time around is harder than the first, and for others it is easier. For me it is easier. You see, I did not like who I had become before. The first time I was a whining, begging, crying boob. He had me thinking that I was crazy. I knew I wasn't, but I was in an emotional whirlwind at the time. This time, I had decided he would not do that to me. I would stay and stand strong. I realized that keeping my focus on my goal was going to help me stay strong. As I said I have set backs. It is only natural. I do have feelings that I have to acknowledge. When I shove them back too much, they have a way of making them selves know to me. I'm sure once I pass boards, everyone in the state of MN will wonder which dam broke loose.

You are normal, and it takes while. A friend of mine, found out before she married her H that he cheated. She agonized over cancelling the wedding. She decided to marry him. The first couple of years she did not trust him at all. She said as time went on it got better. That was about 14 years ago.

So, tell us what is happening with the boards.

Lets see, and how the kids are doing.........what you are going to do to relax a little this summer.......your favorite icecream.....and that's probably enough for tonight.

SS

Thanks Sue for the answer,it really does help.
I know that he is sorry,he tells me, he says things were bad before the A but he would have rather delt with that stuff (because for us we always worked things out)than he would dealing with this.

Every day I tell myself today I won't hurt,I am worth something I am better than all of this but by the end of the day I am once again just a wreck,crying wonder how did my life end up like this.I want to put it all behind me but I feel we have to deal with the issues at hand if we want a full recovery,I don't think he sees it like that.He thinks just forget it make it go away and all is well,not me.

I don't know if I could go through this again I never thought I would go through it once I always said if he ever cheated I would be out of here,boy I wish that love thing had not gotten in the way.I gotta go just wanted to see if you had replied before I left for work I'll check in later when I get home. Have a great day and thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm studying for boards. This morning I went to the Kaplan center (that is the organization that has the course where 95% of the participants pass the first time). I reviewed a video, I am going again tomorrow. Thursday and Friday I plan to do the CD questions from home. If there is time I will review the NCLEX book. Saturday I hope to go back to the center to take a test. This test identifies your weak areas so you know where to spend more time on.

After I do all the bills this week, whatever is leftover I am putting aside to pay for boards. Hopefully there will be enough to pay and schedule the test.

I'm considering applying for clinic jobs, since those are mostly during the day, and with the condition my knee is in right now, it will be difficult for me to work as a staff RN in a hospital setting. I've been thinking about a position in an Urgent care, those are generally part time. I could keep my current Full Time job until I find a full time hospital job. These are just some ideas I'm kicking around my head.

Lets see favorite Ice Cream, I don't really have one, but I have a few I like alot.

The one with the peppermint candy bits, there is the type with English toffee candy bits. I think kemps or blue bunny makes these. Then there is the ones from Swhanns - I forget the name, but is is a coconut almond type, and there is the chocolate covered strawberry one. No plain vanilla for me. If it is vanilla I want hot fudge on it.

So, what is your favorite Ice cream?

Relax this summer - paint screens, fix screens, fix the cracked stucco on the house, clean up the yard that H will make when he reroofs the garage, hopefully take down a tree. (Most of this was wrong when we bought the house, didn't have the funds to fix it. The city is cracking down on houses that need repair. It would have been nice if they enforced the ordinances before we bought the house.) I hate where we live. They even called us on stuff that happened when my H was in the middle of reroofing the house, such as down spouts not attached to the gutters, well golly, he took the gutters off when he was reroofing. We talked to a fence company, he was telling us how they hate doing business in our city. They don't have they type of hassels they do from the more exclusive neighboring suburbs that they have from our city. I did not want to buy in this city. H wanted the house. I told him they were snooty and uppity. Nothing but a Wannabe Edina.

When we bought the house, we planned on doing the repairs and fixing it up. We had no intention of negleting the house. H does not help matters with the trips and spending he does, and all the ball games he plays. He could be at home doing some of the work. It amazes me how he will take the evening off of ball for a trip out of town, but he will not take it off to work on the house or for the kids. (well, he is finding that he has had to miss a game or two for the kids. I refused to leave work to help him out.)

I know H has helped his friends out with stuff at their houses, H will not ask his friends to help him with our house.

So when do I relax, never, I'm stuck in the middle between an ignorant H and the city with regards to our house.

[ June 24, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Hi Sue,boy I am tired just reading your post.

I remember those days of none stop life, not so busy right now for me I think that is why I am having a harder time getting through this.I just don't have a goal I'm pressing for right now and the kids are not little so its just me alot of the time,however my D just asked if we could keep her kids for a couple of weeks her and H are both in school and the summer session is really hard she said, and she really wants to get good grades.If we take them that means I will be running after a one and three year old after work I don't know if I am up to it but it will probably be good for me.

I am so glad I had my kids when I was younger I don't think I would have the energy to run all over after the kids now.

Well good luck with your studies and I hope all works out in the money department too.You said your H went back to work how is that going?
Take care talk to you later.

His working is fine, except, that he is back to expecting me to get up in the mornings (5 AM) to make him lunch. I get home around midnight. Everything is about him.

As I think back, he always expected me to buy him the more expensive gifts, while I settle for less than what I want. I got nothing for Mothers day, could not afford it. We could not afford anything for fathers day, he is expecting me to get him something when we have the money. I will get what he wants for his birthday. We will be able to afford it then. Why should I give him a belated fathers day gift when he justifies not giving me a gift at all.

He has the new car, the new computer, it is all about him having the best. My vehicle is not bad, don't get me wrong, he got the brand new one, I got the 3 year old one. I always have the used, and he has the new. I'm tired of settling.

The ring he bought me last December, that was not the ring I wanted. It was a smaller and cheaper one that does not even come close to what I want. I don't know why I expect so much from him, he is not capable of putting anyone first. It is like his love is for sale to the highest bidder. You know what, she can go bankrupt trying to keep him happy. I will not.

Sue,
Believe it or not I know just what you are saying.I have been married for 26yrs that is a really really really loooooooong time!!!!!!!!!

A year and a half ago was the FIRST TIME in my marraige I got the new car,he always got the new and gave me the old one.Same thing with birthdays and other holidays most of our life we could not afford my holidays but on his he always got what he wanted,take last year when he was involved with OW I waited all day just for him to say Happy Birthday to me nothing he forgot it but I'm sure he was talking to her that day.Well the next month he managed to afford a plane ticket to go meet her and two weeks after he got home he bought himself a new laptop.

Since the A I will admit he has been a little better about getting me stuff but I feel like he is trying to buy me.He has always bought me things so that he would not have to spend to much time with me gifts instead of him. He felt so guilty I guess about the A he bought me a diamond necklace for christmas but what put a big damper on it he told her all about it. He forgot our aniversary this year so I got nothing I bought him a gold braclet.He told every one that he had bought me a new ring last year so he didn't need to get me anything this year.

Sue I know just what you are saying.
Do you work the late shift?
Thats really hard with small kids I did the same thing when my kids were little.
I might add that when my H is tired he wants to sleep and lets me know it,but he thinks nothing of waking me up at night when he gets home from work(he works the late shift 2 to 3 nights a week)like last night he wakes me up (I get up at 4:30 am for work)because he was in the mood.Boy am I tired today!!

I don't want to sound materialist because I am not. I'm just tired of feeling like he thinks less of me, and expects me to settle for crumbs.

I have not worn the ring he gave me for christmas in a couple of months or so. I just cannot bring myself to wear it. It was not what I really wanted, he didn't even try to get me what I wanted. I believe he didn't really want to give me a nice ring, only did it to shut me up. Okay, I think it is time I stop. I'm getting very cynical

I don't think you are materialistic,We deserve nice things there is nothing wrong with that.You cook his meals,clean his clothes,his house,take care of the kids,help him financially,and lets see probably take care of his sexual needs when allowed.So why in the world would you think you don't deserve a few things in life that you want.There is nothing wrong with that.

Don't get me wrong my H can be kind I just know exactly how you feel I've been there.What he wants comes first.Even now trying to recover it is not what I want or need but what he thinks is ok nothing more, that means just forget it don't bring it up he does not want to have to face the fact that he did the most awful thing he could have ever done.He will not go to councling and by not talking about it he does not have to be reminded that he was a jerk and really screwed up.

I wrote him a long letter last night even suggesting a short seperation he said no way and he has acted different today but I've been through this before usually it only last a couple of days.

When I think about stuff like this, I really wonder "why do I want to try?" "Why do I want to make it work?" I know I deserver better. He is not worht it.

I know sue,when I think of all I have been through over the last 26yrs. I think I desereved more from life,I could have done so much more.But for me my H is all I know I am afraid of the unknown we have grown up together we were just 16 and 17 when we got married way too young.Now I am to afraid to start over,and wonder if it was worse then what?

Sue,
I don't get tired reading, but I do wonder how long you can do this. I don't think you will fail any time soon, but.........well, something has to give. You are pretty darn tough, but you have feelings, and they are important.

Schwans Raspberry Rumble right now, but plain vanilla is a close second after I make chocolate sodas out of it.

I have been gone for a few days, and now I'm behind. I owe you a longer post, and I'll try and get to it soon. Summer is the busy time for my business, and I hope you gals forgive me for the posts being few and far between.

Ginger, I haven't spoken to you much, but It looks like you are doing a little better. I hope so.

SS

SS- you have me curious, what do you do that summer is you busy time?

I've made some calls today, I hope I have found someone to haul away an old car of H's. He has this bad habit of keeping junk vehicles when they die.

Last winter I made him get rid of his 89 Jimmy that was sitting in the garage for 2 years, I still have an old Jeep Cherokee to get rid of, and a old Pontiac. The Jeep in is in the garage, so that one will take longer, H has the garage full of junk, that will be gone by the end of summer if I have to pay someone to haul it away I will.

I have to call back on Friday, I found a junk dealer that may take it. Cross your fingers for me. I'm tired of this junk laying around. And H wonders why we have the city breathing down our backs.

I want him to junk his trailer/camper, I don't know how we can get rid of that. It is from the 1970's, and I have major issues with it. He has taken the OW camping in it. I have never been camping in it, we have never been camping. I remember as a kid going camping with my Aunt and Uncle and cousins. I've been camping in campers and tents. He bought the camper during a time when him and I broke up back in our dating days. We broke up because of an old girlfriend of his. She kept coming around. He would not be firm with her, he was afraid to hurt her, she was fragile. Okay, she was mentally unstable. She did commit suicide about 8 years ago. It was her family that told him about the camper for sale at their campgrounds, so she was always around him and I was not allowed there because it would upset her. It didnt' matter that it would upset me. Thinking back, now, I think there was something going on then too. I believed him at the time.

Ok Sue now you really are going to begin to think that I am making things up so that we have stuff in common but what I about to tell you is the Gods honest truth.

The more you talk about your H the more he sounds like my H exept for the OW are you sure we are not married to the same man.

This man of mine has junk EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!
Before we had to move we had a add on in the back part of the house that became "his room" let me begin the list of junk,old soda machines,old computers the walls were filled with hot wheels that he insisted on stapling from floor to roof.He has old toys,old bottles,old maps and the list is just beginning these are all little project that would consume all his time and any extra money we had I could go on and on,then when our son left home oh no we had now and extra room that you guessed it he filled up with ALL HIS junk,it was a night mare when we had to move I refused to help.Now that was in the house lets go out side where we had three junk cars that he is going to someday restore(where will this money come from)and again the list goes on,

Well we ended up having to move when this issue of child support for our son came up so guess what you will love this one.He moved all his junk to my sister house half of the garage is filled up and he has his junk cars there too.My poor sister <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
she doesnt have an H and I think should not have to deal with all that JUNK!!!

Any way how are you today I'm tired if I don't start sleeping better soon I think I will go crazy.

Steal Seeking:Thanks for asking I am doing a little better thanks to sue and everyone else. I let my thread run down don't feel much like sharing stuff right now with alot of people maybe someday.I still have more downs than ups but today makes two up days in a row not bad.

Ginger,

I can tell you we are not married to the same man. If they gave out titles on who's spouse collects the most junk, you H won. I thought mine was bad. I guess I have it easy compared to you.

You need to get some sleep. Try putting on some soft music, lay flat on your back, arms at your sides and in your mind, tell your body to go to sleep, body part by body part starting at your feet/toes. What I do, is I tell my toes to relax, when I feel that happen, I move to my feet, etc, etc. It works for me.

It gets better, life (not the junk, he will have to change for that to change)

sue,I'm glad you can at least feel that one thing in your life is better than someone else I won the award for the junk man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and to tell you the truth I barely tiped the ice berge with what he has I did not mention the thousands of baseball cards and ect.believe it or not he still trys to bring junk into this little two bedroom apt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> some times I think I should have let the OW have him I wonder what she would have thought of all his junk,or I mean treasures!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have an idea, you know that antique show that is on TV, you could take his stuff, and see if it is valuable. (Just kidding) trying to make light of it for you.

If mine kept all that stuff, I would have to pack him up.

I know the show he loves it thats the problem he swears his junk is worth something.So far we are not rich but we still have alot of JUNK!!!

Sue, I just had the best idea we could sell all of our H's junk and then go shopping you can get that mothersday gift you wanted or maybe the ring and I'll get my birthday present and aniversary too!!!!! what other holiday did our H's forget?LOL

That was the only holiday. However, I don't recall how many birthdays. The first two anniversaries he missed, or was it three.

One birthday we went out, yes he remembered, this was the birthday before I confimed the A. He excused himself to go to the bathroom, he called her. I saw it on the bill. I was so mad.

I remember thinking, at the time we went out, how nice and special. He is actually taking us out to dinner. He had to ruin that memory by calling her while we were out at dinner. (I was so impressed that we went out, I remember the time frame.)

Sometimes I think he loves me, most of the time, I don't believe he does. He does not tell me he does.

Today was another day, because it was a day with the kids not listening, he says he does not want to be a parent anymore. What was he expecting, "Father's Knows Best", "Brady Bunch". Those were not real families, in real families, kids don't always listen. That is reality. Parenting is a hard job.

Good Morning !!!
( I guess it is if we make it that.)

That is reality. Parenting is a hard job.

Whenever I ask my dad what to do about the kids, he says " I think you need to beat them more." Then he laughs.
He never beat any of us, so I think he just gets a kick out of saying it.

If I ask again, he always says " Oh, you are doing OK, just keep loving them and it will work out."

I am in the business of selling camping equipment, and our most busy months are May, June, and July.

Sue, keep it up, pass those boards. I still pray for you, for your children, and for your H to be what he is supposed to be. You deserve a better life.

It looks like I have to go away again, I sometimes buy some good deals spur of the moment that I have to go and pick up.

If you know you can't relax this summer, set yourself a goal for next year. Have something to look foreward to, and reward yourself for many jobs well done.

I still think you should be making plans for what you are going to do with your M. I am afraid if you don't you may just cash it all in on a bad day. Talk to Cerri, and work on it right along, just as a favor to me.

Remember that lots of us care about you.

SS

[ June 26, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

What do I say except thanks. You always seem to know what to say.

I will talk to Cerri, promise

Hi All,

I don't recall exactly what was said, in a prior post, SS, metioned about my opening up on my feeling, or talking about my feeling more. I don't recall exactly what was said. I know I should, it is so easy for me to put up the guard when the feelings come around. I went through it once before, I don't want to do it again. It is so much easier to keep the guard up.

It is so easy for me to turn my hurt into anger and vent. I can do that very easily.

My past experiences have been when I show my vulnerablitly, show that I am hurt, H tends to ignore it, or humiliate me because I have feelings. Once, he tried to ridicule me for expressing my feelings, I know I was so mad at him for doing that. I firmly told him they are my feelings, I am entitled to them, and he does not have the right to invalidate them. He had no response to that.

I hate it when I go to bed and cry. I hate it when I don't even want to sleep with him because I am so angry with him. There are times I welcome our 3 year old sleeping with us. There are times I want the closeness of him. Which I will probably never have.

On a brighter note, most of the stuff we need to do some home improvements are on sale this week. I will find a way to come up with the money to buy it. Even if it means cutting back on the groceries. (I always over shop in this area)

Hi Sue, A long not so good day for me.I guess I could tell you about it and make you happy that you are married to your H and not mine.LOL

Kids are kids that what I say.My H never was one to help with the kids and when things went wrong or they made a bad choice it became my fault for not backing him up as a parent or not allowing him to correct them how he saw fit.Ok I will agree that when it came to the kids we had a lot of disagreements on raising them not a good idea but I would always tell him don't you remember being a kid were you perfect? I don't think he ever liked that answer much.

Sue I don't know what to say about your M.You know how you feel and what is best for you I don't, all I can do is to be a listening ear when you need one and hope that you find some comfort in that.
I have had a lot of people give me thier oppinions over the years about my H not all positive I will add but the bottom line is I chose to do what I did because of how I felt inside.My friends and family do not know about his A if they did they would all be very angry at me for staying.But I am here because this is what I chose it hasn't been easy and most days the pain is unbearable but it was the choice I made for me.

Hi Ginger,

I think if you told me everything your H has done, I probably would not be glad I have my H and not yours.

Each of us are in different places, different circumstances, and it hurts the same. Deep and to the core.

Because I was once with an abusive alcoholic, and it was the worst time of my life, (yes, even my current situation is better than that one was), if my H was an alcoholic, I would run, not walk to the nearest exit. I cannot stay in this type of situation, I don't care how much I love that person.

You chose to stay, because you loved him. And you in some ways are stronger than I am. I would have been long gone by now if I was in your shoes.

I know your H was finally honest with you, I understand how much that hurts. You think you will be relieved to hear this, but you are not. If he continues with this honesty, hopefully this will be the beginning of you being able to heal and move foward in recovery of your M.

I really hope everything works out.

Sue, I hope I do not make things worse for you instead of better when we chat.I do not mean to bring you down.

Crying your self to sleep now that is something I do very well.I think it is washing away my wrinkle cream!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think it is ok for you to get angry some times holding every thing in makes things worse as I look over my life it is all the junk I hold deep inside of me that probably makes it so I can not deal with this situation very well.

Thanks for saying I was strong I needed that, I do not feel strong today I feel like a big fat cry baby today!

You don't bring me down, I do that all by myself when I find the time.

Crying is not a sign of weakness. Strong people are not afraid to show their feelings. Crying for no reason is cause for alarm. You have plenty of reasons to cry.

Some claim that crying has a cleansing effect. I don't know, I know it makes my eyes red and puffy, I don't know how cleansing that is

I know what you mean about the puffiness.I have really bad allergies and don't need any help with puffy eyes.

I don't feel weak because I cry I think I feel weak because I can't admit what he has done.I cant walk away and feel like it is ok to start new.I feel weak when I think of him just being able to walk away from his responsibilitys I know he didn't do this but the thought that he was going to kills me inside.

After listening to you and Ginger talk about junk collectors, I think I'll clean the garage tomorrow. What's the biggest dumpster they make?

SS

I don't know, but you better get cleaning.

I don't usually watch Montel Williams, it was on the TV while I was paying bills.

Todays topic was, people who collect stuff that they think is worthless. One guy has 40 boxes of TV guides. Another guy has an old gas pump, 2 or three pepsi machines, 2 or 3 coke machines. The gararge was full.

On the show, they were offered to give Montel the junk items (not all of them) but specific ones that were selected and take what is behind door #1 or #2 or keep the junk. One person actually had an antique item worth about 2,000. They kept it, and gave up an old chair that was worth about 200, they got 2,000 in excahnge for the 200.00 chair.

I thought of you Ginger, too bad you weren't on there, maybe you could have gotten rid of some stuff

Oh I forgot to tell you of the old gas pumps(and I am not kidding)we have had them too.Was it a short mexican on the show if so that was my H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Honestly, I think he was mexican, if not, he had the darker complextion that mexicans/latinos have.

I was wondering where that man was today!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And SS go ahead and clean out your gargage just please do not tell my H he will be right over to take all it off your hands! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How are you today Sue?

Ginger, you have a great sense of humor.

Its funny you should say that I can remember back in HS all the guys thought every other girl was pretty but me I was the one with the sense of humor.It hasn't shown much latley but chating with you has helped bring it back just a little.

I can remember when I was first married my H would always laugh he use to tell me you are so funny I love the way you make me laugh.Now he says he wishes we could laugh again like we use to.

My dad always thought I would be a comic.

Me I'm just me and wish I could laugh a little more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

In time, it will happen. I did not laugh much in the beginning. If I had a nickname it was doom and gloom, that was my mood. I didn't find joy in anything.

Me too not much joy these days. I will be having my little grand babies for three weeks,in the past I would have been so excited but right now I am just a little nervous hoping I will be able to handle the extra stress.Maybe it will be good get my mind on something else.

If I read your profile right we are not that much different in age.Look at me already a grandma,in a way I am glad I had my kids young it makes me a young grandma,in a way I wish I would have waited a little more wisdom with age and maybe not so many heartaches. Who knows.

I'm really sorry for your pain. I am the cheating wife - for about 5 or 6 years...who can count after that long? I have finally realized that I don't want to leave my husband and I want to make it work with him, but having stole from the OM for so long, I have that guilt to contend with, too.

I think I read that your husband's A has been going on for some time. Truth is, he probably doesn't want a divorce . He probably doesn't want to have the affair anymore. And he probably still loves you, but you are making it VERY EASY for it to go on because you don't say anything to him. And I'm sure he would love for you to help him end it...but the only way to do that is to confront him. (I say that, but I won't lie to you...he will resist and it will seem that he doesn't want to end it, but I'm just telling you that it is VERY hard to end a long term A.) But I'm sure he knows you suspect.

I've wanted to quit my affair for quite some time, but my husband (who I know suspects) only makes a few slight remarks occasionally, but never throws it in my face and confronts me. And sometimes I resent him for it because it seems to me if he really cared he would raise hell - cuz that's what I'd do. But he is not me. But if he would make it more uncomfortable for me, the more I would want the affair to end cuz that's the side I am leaning to.

I understand your wanting to be through with school so you can support your kids if you have to, but I question whether you are making the right decision or not. It seems that it makes the marriage secondary to everything else. I think it is great for you to have a backup plan, but it's hurting all of you to let it keep going on.

I have only read this one thread from you so I am sure I do not know the whole picture. Just know that I am telling you what I told you from my heart...a heart that wants to do the right thing.

Good luck to you.

Jaref,

Thank you very much for your input. I've questioned many times if I was doing the right thing. I also have history, that has shown me that my H has walked out when confronted. At this time, it would cause the kids and me more harm by confronting at this time. It is not much longer. I plan to schedule my boards this week. (we should have the money to pay for it).

If he is dropping hints, he suspects. He might be hoping that you will confess. I know I would love it if he would. If he confessed to me right now, and told me that it was over and he was sorry and would do anything to make it right so I don't file for divorce, that would be a step in the right direction. It would indicate to me that he is remorseful and wants to make our M work.

If you really want your M to work, write the OM a NC letter, tell you H about the affair, show him the letter. Tell him how much he means to you and you do not want to lose him. Ask him to mail the letter to the OM. Let him know you are doing this as a way to regain his trust. You want him to know you are sincere in wanting your M. Expect hurt, anger, fear, and who knows what else. Do all you can to regain his trust.

I have not used them, I've heard great things about the phone counseling with Dr. Harley. Suggest to your H that you want to do it. If you are willing to go to MC, tell your H that. Find a MC that is pro marriage.

I'm glad you posted. If you have not done so, start your own thread, expect to get flamed by some, you will also get help and encouragement to do the right thing. There are many WS here who have done the same thing.

I think your H must love you if he suspects and has not confronted. He is probably afraid of losing you by confronting. Do you have children?

Ginger,

Yep, we are about the same age. You will still be young enough to play with your grandchildren. My grandchildrens memories of Grandma will be pushing her around in her Wheelchair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JareF,

One more thing, the book Surviving an Affair (SAA) excellent book. I suggest you get it. It will help both you and your H.

I ordred mine from this website. I've heard it is available at Barnes and Noble. (I don't know if that is true or not)

Yes Sue I can play with them and the nice thing is when I get tired I can send them home!!Don't be jelous(just kidding)enjoy your children I guess if I would have started later I would have more energy right now I just want the last two to hurry up and be 18!

I am very impressed by your response to the other post I thought you gave some great advise.

It was easy, it is what I want from my H. I spoke as honestly as I could. She had some very valid points too. Ones that I have given a fleeting thought. I also dismissed them, not wanting to get my hopes up.

Hi Sue, Just wanted to say hello.I just got home from work thought I would check in on you and make sure you were doing ok.I know you are probably busy over the weekends.
Have a good weekend,hope your H is nice to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Very busy this weekend.

Went ot Menards and bought gutters, a screen door, priced aluminim exterior doors, clothes baskets, (I think I now own about 7 of those), paint for the awnings, sand mix to repair stucco and mesh.

Another storm went through and tree by garage is still standing. For 5 years I have been hoping lightening would strike it, and destroy my garage so I can get a new one. So such luck. I guess we will have to accept that mother nature will not help us and we will have to take down the tree and fix the garage. I'm really kidding on this one. The first weekend we moved in, we had a bad storm that sent us to the basement, we were worried the tree would fall on the garage, so now it is a joke with us

I had to work this week-end. My son came home for last home pass before he is back home to stay.He brought home 4 big trophies that he had won we were so proud this a child who has struggled his intire life with school always in special ed. has a low self esteme short temper I think that all contributed to his eventual drug use. It was his escape thats what he would tell me. Anyway I have to take him back tomorrow it is a three hour drive I have to be at work by 4am I get off at 12:30 then I will drive him back turn around and drive home.Loooong day!!!

I wanted to talk to H, Ive been having a hard time lately with all of this all he does is yell at me tells me to get over it quit bringing it up stop throwing it in his face I wonder how he would react if it was me that slept with someone else.I can tell you right now he would call me a s**t and be out the door. I hate all of this I don't know how much more I can take.Some times I want to leave but I don't want him to have the freedom to be with her.Stupid I know.

Enough of that how was your H, is he treating you any better? They are funny men I mean they think that they treat us so wonderful but how long would they last if we treated them the way they treat us.Not long I'm sure.

Well I'll check in later with you Sue take care.

he's been okay. He hasn't been home much this weekend.

I have a CD with potential sample type questions for the boards. I was taking that yesterday, the kids were asking me questions (timed test), and he was really good about telling the kids to leave me alone while I'm taking the test. They need to come to him.

I guess we can be thankful for the small steps.

My H did something out of the ordinary today.I had a really bad night,didn't get much sleep at all and had to get up early for work.He knew this and that I had the long drive today.He came to my job and told me he was going to take off early today to go with me.That was a surpise,he told me in the car he was so worried I would get in an accident that he could not let me go alone.That was a really sweet thing he has never done that before he has always just let me do what ever needed to be done as long as he did not have to change his schedule any.

Like I said lets be thankful for small steps.

Where has your H been?

Softball tournament, and helping a friend of my sisters. I was the one who asked him to help her.

My YD was supposed to spend the night at Grandmas' she loves staying there. She made a friend with the girl next door.

Grandma took her to church with her, so YD was saying things to me, I could tell she got from church. It was soooo cute.

First our conversation went about kids being stolen. She wanted to know why people steal kids. We had to stop at the bank so I could make a deposit in the night depost. I usually don't do that because it is not always a smart thing to do. I needed to get money in so some checks would not bounce. I had told her we could not dilly dally in the parking lot, because mean people sometimes hide in bushes, and try to steal from people. So, then my daughter tells me I have a good heart, and I love kids. I do my best to keep them safe. Then she tells me I have a "loving heart". After that she says she saw the lord at church, he does not look good in red, he should wear blue. I'm wondering if she was talking about the priest and his robe. I will have to ask my MIL.

She is a gem.

Well, I rescreened one more screen today, I will try to find time to paint it tomorrow.

Doing some of this stuff, helps me to build my confidence. I never thought I would rescreen a window. It never looked hard, I just always figured it was H's job. Especially since I usually had to do the cleaning, laundry, etc, I figured he could have the other stuff.

Well, he neglected those duties, and not the city is breathing down our backs, it all has to be done soon.

Some of the neglect was from before we bought the house. So, we have to fix that too.

I'm trying to convince H we do not need to paint the gutters. I bought white. H wants to paint them green.

Where do you get all your energy from?
I remember when I use to just go,go,go.Now I take more time to relax.Of course my kids arent small either.I will have my grand babies here in a couple of days and then there will be no rest for me.

You talked about your D and how funny she is, she sounds so much like my youngest when she was little.She would tell me the funniest things,I remember one time telling her how important it was that she wear her seat belt so that if we were in an accident she would not get hurt or even killed. She was about 4 at the time. Her response to me was "Oh goodie I want to die,because if I die I will be in heaven with Jesus and they have gold streets there!!! Well so much for me getting her to keep the seat belt on and I still have problems with her keeping it on now.
I love little kids I wish mine could have stayed little forever I miss those times so much.I think if they were still small I would be able to get through things easier,I always did back then but now I guess I feel more like it is just me and H and if he leaves me its just me.I don't know how well I would do if it was just me.

She is a gem.

Yes, I believe she must be. Like her mom.

SS

Thanks,

What scare me most, is I do see some of me in her. I don't know if I will have the patience my mom had with me. I sure hope so. There was a time, where nothing scared me.

Hey there.... thanks for the conversation, it was fun. Now take out that calendar and tell me if any weekends are off limits for the naked with whips bonfire. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hugs,

C

I do not know of any weekend that is off limits for July or August.

Cool, can't wait for the nakedness to begin and the whips to come out.

It was fun, thanks for suggesting it. After I left, I returned a door, (I knew it was too big when I bought it, I was hoping we could take off the molding on the one side. H pointed out to me why my idea would not work. He did seriously consider it. (that is a first). So, I returned the door, went to the bank, drove out to a different Menards and bought the right size door.) It is sitting in my SUV in my work parking lot. I'm hoping to have that one painted and up by the end of the weekend. We will see if I keep on schedule. I also have to go to the center tomorrow to study more. There are open this weekend too, so I hope to get there then too.

I have to be on the go, if I start to get lazy, I get real lazy, then my brain gets mushy.

Hi Sue,

Sounds like lots of work I hate repair work.

Do you have any fun plans for the 4th?
My D and her family are coming tomorrow,my son and his family will not make it this year he said the air went out in his car and he needs to save money to repair it I understand that.

Today is my last day alone,I will have grandkids for the next 2 1/2 weeks and then our son will be home for good.I am a little fearful of what will happen between H and I.
I think he is glad the kids will be here that way there is not so much time just us and he won't have to worry about talking about A.I worry of the old life returning I can see it happening already.

Some things are different but some are just like before.We were home alone all morning I don't think he said two words to me he was to busy with his website.It was our last day alone I guess I thought he would take advantage of it.He did go to the grocery store with me we needed to get stuff for when the kids get here,usually he does not go or even offer to so I guess I need to be happy for that.

Well good luck with your studies,I'll check in later.

We are supposed to participate in a 4th of July celebration in where H's father lives. They both are involved in a group there that participates in this event. I was supposed to work the charity Jail. Since my surgery, I don't think they are counting on me.

I also plan to work on the house, study, and relax. I do and I don't like repair stuff. I like keeping busy, I like using my hands, I don't like working out in the hot sun. On the cooler days, It is fine, on the hotter days, well, I get very. very. very, crabby.

Tell me about it. I hate the heat and it is so hot where I live every summer I become a monster.
Maybe the heat is one reason I have had such a bad time these last few days.

I need to some how get out of my depression and get busy again.In my mind I make plans but by the time I get home from work I don't want to go anywhere do anything or see anyone.It just is not like me.I hate this.

Maybe the next few weeks with the kids will help,but to tell you the truth I am more scared of having them here then anything this is not me I usually would do ANY thing to have them.I feel like this whole thing has changed who I am.

Sue and Ginger,

Point me in the right direction to get up to speed on the two you.....We've got to stop meeting this way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Star,

My original thread was titled I strongly suspect. Mostly this one is a rehash of the old one. Lots of vents from me.
(I assume this is what you meant)

You know, this thread needs a icon with eyebrows that go up and down, sort of devilishly.

Ginger, I forgot the names of Gingers, (forgive me please.

For those who wonder why I said I am 99.9999999% sure, I was giving a very small benefit of the doubt that I could be wrong.

I have been know to be wrong, it is rare. (I think most of us have seen the rules for men, The woman is always right, even when wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (couldn't resist), I could have it I put some effort into resisting, but I didn't want to)

Sue,
I like your sense of humor it is right up my alley.

Star:I let my thread run dry,Have not started a new one don't know when I will,is that against the rules not to have a thread?

No it's not agains the rules LOL.....I don't have a thread. I'm in recovery so I just bounce around. I'll occasionally start a thread....but have never run a long story thread like these. Could you ladies just tell me a little about your marriages?

Star, I will tell you what ever you want to know but maybe I should start a thread to do that,or you could start one and I will visit it and answer any questions.

What do you think Sue?

I am courious about the whips and nakedness!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There is a picture thread on EN, "Lets see you"

Like Water for Chocolate was wearing a strapless number, the picture is a shoulders on up shot, so all you see is bare shoulders and a necklace. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Everyone was giving her a hard time about submitting a naked picture. In MN we are planning a get together, so she is threatening to bring a whip to it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Star: I met my H about 12 years ago, we had two children before we were married. H's brother was in the Army at that time. When he came home, we planned our son's christianing, and we were planning on getting married so BIL could be best man. H met OW. I confronted him, for a month, we fought about it, he told me I was crazy, needed help, the whole bit. We split up, H walked out on me and the boys. About 6 months later, H wanted back. I believe it was because he noticed I was taking steps to get on with my life. Two years later we married, had YD. We have been married for 5 years now. H was introduced to OW by a mutual friend. H wanted to introduce friend to a friend of his. They made plans to meet. Friend did not want to come to this bar alone, so she brings friend with. Just in case she did not like H's friend. When she realized what was going on, she called me and apologized. She said she never intended for them to get together. H is now mad at her for telling me, says she is lying about the friendship he has formed with OW. Claims they are just friends. H will not talk to this friend any longer. Mutual friend told me that this OW, likes men who are attached. She has gone after many married men, including her best friends husband.

I went back to school Part time for Nursing when YD was approx 1 year old. I continued working full time, we needed the income.

A year ago April, I discovered that H was seeing OW again/still, maybe it never ended. The whole marriage I suspected, but put it down to lack of trust because of the past. I have not confronted yet, because I was trying to finish school, I graduated last May. I have to take boards and find a job, so I can work as a RN. If I confronted now, and he walked, the kids and I would face way to much hardship, I would not have the money to pay to take boards, and I would have just thrown the last 3 years away. Also, once I am working as a RN, I can support the kids on my own, without having to worry about when the CS will come.

Over the past year, I have made may discoveries that lead me to believe that the A never ended. Even though we were not married when we had the boys, we lived as a family unit, so I consider his R with her at that time an A. (Some would disagree with me on that point). Besides the feelings I had for him, I took him back because of the boys. We were barely making it. If it was just me, I would have moved on with my life.

Anyway, back to discoveries, we were in our house less than 6 months, YD is a newborn, next door neighbor asks if our phone was out, her kids saw H making a phone call from a nearby store. (H did not have a cell phone at that time). I thought how odd, questioned H, he said he was at the store and remembered a call he had to make. H kept coming home with shower Gel from a bath and body store from the Downtown area. H did not work downtown, I knew from the past, that OW worked retail, lots of retail stores, so I stared wondering if something was going on. Dismissed it as lack of trust on my part.

H comes home one day after a union meeting, says they announced that another union in another state was very short workers and they were looking for guys willing to travel for a few months to help out. H said it would be for about 3 months, they had a higher pay scale, and was working 60 hour weeks. I agreed for 3 months. I figured if he did start up with her, this seperation would help to deter anything. I went and visited H once, he came home once a month after that. Christmas he came home for 3 weeks. Three months became nine months. I also found out that there is a very strong possibility that she was out there living with him. (made this discovery within the last year). I have a legitimate reason to write the apartment complex with regards to the lease, so I am going to inquire who all resided in the apt. at that time. When I told H I was going to do this, he got very mad at me. Has me wondering is there an OC?

H comes home, things are good, or so I think, except for the nagging suspicion about OW. H gets a cell phone, hides the bill(s). Red Flag. H disappears for hours. Goes shopping for one item, it takes him hours and he does not come home with the item. Red flag. He takes many trips that does not include the family. In 5 years, we had one family vacation, which was last summer. He on the other hand has been to Vegas many times, up north many times.

Truth starts coming out about many things from past, such as H bought a Time Share when we were seperated (not out of town work trip). At the time he bought it, we were in the process of workign things out. I found out he bought it with OW. I told him I wanted him to sell his share to her, or we buy her share. No results. He knows exactly how I feel about their shared ownership. H claims the only time he talks to her is with regards to timeshare.

many times I expressed my displeasure about his trips, and the family not taking trips. H says, you can go on a vacation when ever you want. What about the kids, take them with if you want. I don't need to go.

A year ago, April, H gets careless. Did not hide cell phone bill as well as he thought he did. I find it, take it work. Coworker helps me look up numbers I did not recognize. Did search on internet on her name. Came up with a Credit union website, lists her as employee. Two of the phone numbers on the website are on H's bill. One downtown, the other one in a suburb.

I manage to find out H's phone password, I start accessing his bill online. He calls her daily, if not 3+ times a day.

It all starts to make sense, the disappearing acts.

When we got married, I expected that the kids and I would move into his apartment. Just an assumption, or he would move in with us. After we are married, I asked him, which way would be best. H says he has a small one BR apt, there is not room for all of us. I tell him the kids are little, they don't take up much space, we could have them sleep on the couch. Says apartment is an adult apartment. I questioned how could that be, when he had the kids there before. Evades anwering. H's mom owned a duplex, I was living there. He said he did not want to move back to his mom's. I almost divorced him after 2 months of marriage for this.

H, tells me he is moving back into his moms with me and kids. So, I decide to forget the divorce idea. We start looking for a house.

After discovery I go into depression. Trying to get through second semester of nursing school and maintains some control over my emotions. H notices depression, he does not say a word. I start searching into divorce options, found MB. Called two attornies, both adviced me at this time to stay in marriage until I finish school. One even said, that many marriages have survived infidelity.

I start posting on MB, bought SAA, HNHN, and a couple of others. Start Plan A, without confronting. Fear he will walk out before I am ready to be main provider for family. H's occupation has seasonal layoffs often. I cannot rely on CS as a means of support. I want my M to work, but only if it means that he ends all contact with OW.

So, here I am, at a stall. M having small progress. I'm pretty sure contact is still there. I suspect H tried to end it last Christmas, H's car was spray painted. Only one on block. H talks more about future together, talks about family vacations more. I know in the last year, he had two trips to Vegas and she was there. (I did my own checking).

Once I pass boards and find a job as an RN, line up childcare if he walks. I will confront. (child care I expect to be easy to line up)

I forgot to mention, this is my first marriage, H's second.

I suspect he might have cheated on his first wife. He says they grew apart, married young.

At some point, I did talk to her. She said too much had happened that she had no desire to work on their marriage any longer, she wanted out. She had hoped he would have grown up because she still cared about him. She never came out and admitted that she thought he cheated, things she said implied the suspicion. She never caught him.

So, is this a problem that has more to do with his own issues and less to do with our relationsip?

H's dad is married and divorced 4 or 5 times. now.

H's mom never remarried.

Sue,

Thanks for catching me up.....at least I can talk to you now having some idea of where you are. How long have you been in Plan A? So we are are talking about a very long affair here....I don't know how you've held yourself together through this. Ever talked to jenni on the EN board? Her H's affair lasted 7 years....he's finally ending it looks like, but the OW is really being psychotic.

So you believe confrontation would mean that your marriage would end? Or is the risk just too great with being in school right now? Seems like there are some very healthy ways of confronting that don't have to be so traumatic you know? As long as it isn't an ultimatum, I don't see why you couldn't say something along the lines of "Don't you think it's time you laid that other relationship to rest? It hurts me to know you keep seeing her." As long as you aren't LBing and don't get sucked into an argument, I think you can tell him how you feel and that you know. What does cerri say?

[ July 02, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

Star,
some of us pushed hard for Sue to confront early in this thread, and KaylaAndy had some very good observations about why she should let it go until she finishes tests, and gets a job. I think it's on page 3 of this thread. I was one of those that pushed, but after thinking more about it, I agree with KaylaAndy.
If you can find it, tell me what you think.

Sue, You seem to be doing better this week, but you could just be pretending. Some days are harder than others, I hope you have 4 or 5 easy ones in a row, I think it's about time.

SS

[ July 02, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Confronting right now is too big of a risk at this time. I'm not afraid of him leaving, just afraid of him leaving when I am not prepared for it to happen.

Cerri, understands why, and keeps encouraging me to get my boards taken so I can look for the better paying job. She really hasn't pushed one way or the other, she is concerned that by the time I do confront it will be too late.

Gotta go to work, will check back on break.

I just got home from studying at a center that specializes in test taking for these type of tests.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sue with hope:
Confronting right now is too big of a risk at this time. I'm not afraid of him leaving, just afraid of him leaving when I am not prepared for it to happen.

Cerri, understands why, and keeps encouraging me to get my boards taken so I can look for the better paying job. She really hasn't pushed one way or the other, she is concerned that by the time I do confront it will be too late.

Gotta go to work, will check back on break.

I just got home from studying at a center that specializes in test taking for these type of tests.<hr /></blockquote>Just goes to show how very subtle pushing can be!! LOL

Hang in there Sue. My biggest concern is for you and that you'll just give up and not be willing to do the hard recovery work if he ever gets his act together. And who would blame you?? That would be so sad for your kids. You deserve a whole lot better, but the kids only get one shot at having a dad. Grrrr.... it just makes me so angry!

C back to work before I say something I'll regret. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue, Seeking, cerri,

I just went and read what Kayla wrote, and really I'm just asking questions about what the risks are and how sensitive this issue is so I can learn more about Sue and her situation. It sounds like any turmoil at this point could just upset the applecart too much.....and like cerri....I just hurt for her and think she deserves so much more. The fact that she can wait to do this at a time when she can best protect her future and her children shows alot of inner strength. Inside, like the rest of you.....I just want to scream!!!

(((((((((((Sue))))))))))))))

Star,
When I wrote it, I didn't want it to sound like I felt you were wrong for saying what you did, but I didn't have much time, and I figured you would get it anyway, even without more background.

Your kind and sensitive reply shows I was right.

I was one of the ones that really pushed - at one time. I feel the same about it as you, and like cerri, I wonder if it will be too late for Sue to want to recover.

The good is that Sue has been so strong, that I think she just may be able to pull it off. Recovery, and every thing else.

Sue, you are amazing, and no, I am not trying to make your face turn red.

SS

[ July 02, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS, Cerri, Star*, Ginger

You have succeeded in making my face turn red. LOL

How do I do it, honestly, I had to become very selfish and focused on my goal. I know that in the long run this is important. I try not to give my M much thought, by doing that, I dont' get frustrated. (Okay, I do have my down moments)

I think my mood is up because I'm busy again. I'm back to being focused on preparing for the board. With the knee injury and having difficulty getting around, that was bringing me down quite a bit.

H has to play bouncer at a fundraiser for a couple of hours on the 4th, then we are seeing a parade, H and kids might be in it. I'm not sure.

Saturday, we are invited to spend the day and maybe night at a friend of H's at their cabin. (H has not included me in something like this for a while.). Of course this friend is not the group of friends that H's keeps away from the house, and does not want me around them. This one, H wants to present the respectalbe family image.

Sue like I said before you know sue best.We can all say what we think is best but things are always easier looking through the window from the outside in.

Your weekend sounds fun but busy if you go to the cabin make sure you rest a little.

I enjoyed reading what you wrote there were a few things I did not know.It helps to know someone a little better when you want to be there as a listening ear.

I must say I am just a little disapointed about the whips and nakedness(LOL)I thought it was going to be something real steamy!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ginger - did you check out the picture link in that thread on EN? You should. MB has some mighty fine looking folks out here. And some creative ones.

I intend to relax. (I think). I don't know if relaxing is in my vocabulary.

As far as the Naked pics and whips go, who knows what will happen at the next MN MB get together. I think Chocolate should be made accountable if she forgets to bring the whip. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I tried to find it but did not know how I went to the EN forum but did not see the pic.tell me how to find it.

Well the kids are here and it is none stop now my little grand daughter wont let me out of her site she is just a year old and a doll.I am not saying that just because she is mine she looks just like one of those porclin dolls you buy blue eyes brown hair chubby cheeks and now she is trying to help me type,God really blessed me when he sent her into my life.She looks more like she should my baby then my own children do.
My H always tells our D she should have named her Ginger because he thinks she looks so much like me.I think she is a whole lot better looking but I am proud of her.I love them all they are my joy in life.

I will check in over the next few days when I can keep in touch.

Sue, Ginger,
have a really good weekend - and come back and tell us about it.

I expect to hear that Sue had a great time, and that she is happier than she has been for a while.

I suppose I better check out the photo thread, is there a photo of Sue?

I wonder, she is kind of bashful in some ways, I'll have to look.

SS

Nope, no picture of me. The most recent one I have has me looking like a convicted felon (my work ID picture).

Other than that, I have not had my picture taken since my oldest was babtized. Yes, it has been that long. I've lost weight since he was born, no pictures taken with me in them. Gained it back after birth of D. Since I have gained weight, I will not let anyone take my picture unless i have to, such as work. I look like a whale. I could put in the one I gave my H 12 years ago.

Ginger - enjoy the grandbabies.

I'm not really looking foward to tomorrows events. My knee is still bothering me. H says if it still hurts, we will go in the AM, do his volunteer time, let the kids watch the parade, and go home. Either tomorrow or the day after we will go to the cabin.

I'm not really looking foward to tomorrows events.

If I don't check in on Monday, it means I got put in jail for starting a fire.

You should think about some time for SUE. I would bet with school and everything you haven't had much. (not counting down time for the knee, because you can't enjoy it properly)

Think also about the rule of time for marriages. It may very well be that H would respond well to you spending time with him. You might respond well to it - how about that?

SS

I am looking forward to the cabin trip, that sound relaxing and fun. H was thinking that we might go there tomorrow after the parade instead of Saturday. We have to find someone to let the dog out, before we can commit to staying the weekend. The sponsor of the team, I have not met him, I did talk to him on the phone, he sounds like a very nice man. Very attentive to his kids. Maybe he will be a good influence on H.

On the 4th, H was volunteered (he did not volunteer him his dad did) to do security at a bar for a fundraiser). H is doing the AM shift, so he will be done by the time the parade starts.

After I pass boards, I'm going to see if I can change my working hours to work during the day, while I look for a job. I saw some I wanted to apply for, but I don't know if I should at this time. A couple of them are at a childrens rehab hospital.

Sue, Ginger, seeking......Happy 4th of July. I hope that the holiday holds surprises and happiness for all of you even if it's only in some small way. Look for the blessings...they are there. Hugs and sunshine to all of you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Star*fish,

Thank you and same to you.

SS- please don't start any fires, you will be missed around here.

Ginger - I see you lurking - go enjoy those grandbabies of yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You have eyes in the back of your head.

I am enjoying them I am already tired.I will check in later in the weekend.Three days off for me WOW.

You did not tell me how to find the pictures.

SS: No fires please I cant afford to help bail you out of jail.

Lets see you

Ginger - see if the above link works. It is the pictures

The 4th parade we went to, I did not have much fun. Trying to keep kids from not running off, when they were excited, because I could not keep up was tough.

The cabin was great. We might go back tonight We were invited to stay, at the time we left the house, we did not have anyone for our dog, and we were not going to bring him along, since it was not our place. We found someoneon on the way. H did not have his diabetis medication, so we went home. They told us if we want to come back we are more than welcome. Kids had a great time. The only time I had to watch them was when they were near the water.

We are trying to find someone to take the dog out so we can go back up for the night tonight.

H was great. He was playing cards, "sandwiched" between two young girls, I came up, and he started teasing me. (fun tease). Later, during the fire works, I went and sat on the swing with H and our S#2, H put his arm over my shoulder. He kept it there the whole night. It carried over into this morning.

Sue,
Good for you. Go back if you can. Getting away always seems to help.

No fires Ginger, I suppose the fire dept probably still likes me this year. All the neighbor kids came over and brought fireworks their mothers wouldn't let them do at home. We did them all. No on was hurt or maimed or anything!!

SS

I was surprised to see you girls here today.

Well our holiday started on the 3rd.My D and her H brought lunch to me at work my H even took his lunch hour the same time so we all had lunch in my break room together so I thought this is the beginning of a great weekend.
We went swimming and BBQ dinner that night I called H at work ask him to bring home a few things we needed,he did along with a whole lot of beer and other alcohol drinks.That is when my weekend turned bad.
I came into the house once to get something, I find him downing as fast as he could a bottle of beer while pouring on into a cup he thinks I am stupid and can not count how many he has drank.The evening went on and he got drunk started acting stupid and the flood of memories of a life already lived came crashing down on me.It brought back all the feelings of last year when H was involved with OW.I tried so hard to be happy,could not.

It was a repeat performance on the fourth even my teen D made a comment about her dad being drunk the sick feeling in my stomache was back and I have not been able to get rid of it.To top things off I had to go to the mini mart to pick up some ice and the girl working the counter asked if H and I were still together.I said yes why,she replied"Just the way he is when he comes in here gave me a feeling you to were no longer together". I wonder what he does when he goes there I know he is a big flirt but I am tired of this......broken promises of change.That night he passed out on the bed.

Sue,I am so glad to hear that your H did what he did I am so happy for you. You deserve a nice holiday after the last few.

SS,I'm glad you did not start a fire I would hate to have to say I think I know that person on the news.
We also did firworks on the street my grandson had a blast he was so excited.The one good thing was watching him during that time.

We went back, stayed the night. It was great. I had a very relaxing time.

I think H did too.

Mostly sat around, watched the fire works, we brought some too. Lots of space for the kids to run around. As long as they followed the rules, which they did, it was a great time.

Gotta go, I'm tired.

Oh, SS, I'm glad there were not any fires

[ July 06, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Sue,I am so glad to hear that you had a great time over the weekend maybe it will be the start of a new begining for you and H.A small step anyway.

Just a big rollercoaster of emotion for me,I lost it last night LB's flew out of me everywhere.Today I just shut down,havent said much to H,I don't know what to say he seems brain dead,he just does not get it.

I wonder if I could get him a brain transplant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Sue....Glad your fourth was peaceful and that you enjoyed yourself. Stay strong and study hard.....I know brighter days are in store for you.

I had a really good time at the dude ranch....better than H....he's such a homeboy! It rained alot so that put a damper on things, but all and all it was wonderful.

ginger, I hope to read your post tomorrow. I'm sorry to hear about the LB fest....not the best fireworks I'm sure. What was that all about? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sue- Glad to hear you and H had a good time! Just snooping around today and I am happy to read some good news.

So when are we all getting together????

Star,
I think I told Sue all about it. It must be a few post back maybe the page before this one.Don't know if I'll have time to write the thread not much privacy right now for me.

ginger,

Went back on the last page and got the low down on the things that happened around the holiday. That incident in the store must have been a slap in the face. I don't know much about you and H, but I'll keep researching and listening....just know that I am looking over your shoulder, offering mine, and sending prayers your way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ July 07, 2003, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

Thanks Star,
I am still trying to find a quiet moment to start my story for you my house is full right now so a moment alone is hard to come by.Mostly it is because my teen D is here and she does not know anything and she may get a little nosey if she sees my typing so I am just trying to be careful be patient I'll get it written soon.

Hey Sue I feel like I thread jacked sorry.How are you?Havent heard from you today hope all is well.Your thread must be like your house a very nice place to visit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Alright Sue,
I know you are out there somewhere. It's not that we don't trust you, but you really should report in. What are you thinking, leaving me all alone here with Ginger and Star?

Ah, sorry, it is your thread. You don't have to come until you're ready. I'll go now.

SS

BTW, Ginger and Star, I was just teasing Sue.

Ginger, I am a guy, just so you know.
I would hate for you to think that some of this bad humor was done by a real lady.
SS

[ July 08, 2003, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hey Sue,SS is right where are you it is no fun hanging out here with out you.

SS: I'm glad you told me you were a guy not that I care but that way I won't embarrass myself and believe me I am good at that.And I think your sence of humor is great we all need a good laugh now and then especially concidering the type of web site we all hang out at.

Hi all,

I'm here. Yesterday, started out good. I got up, "PAIN FREE", walked normal for a few feet, then my knee hyperextended, boy, that hurt. I was still doing okay. Went to PT, my last visit, and she really worked me over. I ended up calling in at work and took my Vicodin, so, I was totally out of it all afternoon and evening. Today, was catch up day. Alot of running around and stuff.

So, today, I went to work early, I had to leave and take a long lunch. Meeting a man about refinancing the house.

H and kids are trying to talk me into a puppy.

[ July 11, 2003, 10:21 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Ginger - hijack anytime you want

STTSI - Cerri was thinking the last Saturday in July. You will have to confirm with her if it is a done deal or not

HI Sue, Glad to hear all is ok. Hope your knee feels better ouch!! that must have really hurt.

I don't know about the puppy thing it sounds like more work for Sue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

How are things going for your boards?

I have the grandbabies,boy am I glad I had my kids young I am worn out and they have my house torn to pieces.They can find the strangest things to play with.But boy are they cute!!!!!

As far as the puppy things goes, I do not train puppies. H knows that. I do not clean up after dogs either. I am a cat person. I love our Husky dearly, I even missed him and stayed up half the night hoping someone would call when he slipped out of his collar. (I put two collars on him, one for chaining him (no fenced yard) and one for tags. I got the call at 3AM. I was so relieved. Dragged kids out of bed and went and got him. (H was working out of town when this happened). I do not clean up the yard after him, H and kids do. That was the rules when we got him, it will be the rules if we take the puppy.

I like cats because they are easier to take care of, and you can leave a cat for a weekend, and he/she will be fine. A dog, you have to either kennel or find someone who will let him out for you.

They were cute.

I'm with you cats are easier but to tell the truth a puppy can melt my heart just like a baby can.But I sure do not like taking care of them they are a lot of work.

How have things been with H since you got home from your weekend? Any loving????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Nope, no loving, they kind you mean. Too exhausted, beside, a 4 year old keeps coming to bed with us. Kind of hard to keep her out, her bed is right next to ours. Boys are in the room that will be hers, we have to repair the room that will be the boys. The ceiling is falling apart. (cheap suspended ceiling). As soon as we are done with the garage, we plan to fix their room and move them into it, paint the room that will be Little Princess, and have a room to ourselves. H has a hard time telling her "no", she is so cuddly with him.

I also think H is hesitant, because the last time, my knee hurt so bad, he felt sorry that he initiated anything. (boy, this knee is sure putting a wet blanket on things.)

Cerri - if you read this, I was in your beautiful state over the weekend. The part of your state I was in is so pretty it should be part of my state. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sue with hope:
Cerri - if you read this, I was in your beautiful state over the weekend. The part of your state I was in is so pretty it should be part of my state. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Ohhhhh too funny!! I visited the MN capital with my son this year on a field trip. The guide said they've never gotten over the fact that WI didn't claim the land all the way to the Mississippi, but stopped at the St. Croix. So really, part of your state should be part of mine!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So whereabouts were you? It is very pretty over here. We had a chance to fly over the area a couple of years ago on a scout thingie.... From the ground one might be misled into thinking it's a bunch of fields with some trees and hills in the background. But from the air one can see that it's a whole lot of hills and trees with some fields near the road.

I swore I would never live in WI.... I think my exact words were "when he** freezes over." Funny sense of humor the Universe has.... I'm learning not to tempt fate that way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

Sue,Sorry to hear about the love thing it sounds like your nice weekend was just what you two needed and it would have been nice if you guys could have had some alone time.(you know what I mean) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sounds like you guys have a lot of home projects going on.Glad its you and not me.

H survived the no love thing, last night, H was outside talking to a friend when I got home. Princess was asleep on the chair. He moved her to her bed. I asked him to put her in her bed, so we could at least cuddle. (Both of us were very tired) He did.

Cerri - (edited out, anyone there would be able to figure out who I am if they happen to come here) I think I will claim that as part of MN land. After all, we are the land of lakes so what is one more.

You did not want to be part of the land of cheese. I know, those cheese wedge hats are not a fashion statement.

[ July 09, 2003, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I asked him to put her in her bed, so we could at least cuddle. (Both of us were very tired) He did.

Wow, very nice.

I know, those cheese wedge hats are not a fashion statement.

Ahhh Wisconsin....ya gotta love it. Cheese hats, green and yellow Packerware (ewwww), and a dead animal head on every wall..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

When we bought our (very undone) house, the living room had those big cabinny beams in it, a spot where a dead animal head must have hung at one time, and a huge ugly wood burning stove. Every contractor we had come to give us a bid ooohed and ahhhed over the stove, I swear I could have sold it 10 times over. (Except of course for the fact that we never get rid of anything.)

C

How funny. I know what you mean about the wood burning stove. I have one too. Teh last owners of my house, put on an addition, it has the cabin look to it. Complete with wood burning stove. H loves it, as far as I go, I can take it or leave it.

Sue,
I have been trying to figure out something to say that would help.

I know you are on hold and I know why, I just rack my brain trying to figure out how to get you through this in better shape.

All kidding aside, I do think you will do well, I do think you are tough and that with your ability and toughness you will come out doing well. It's just that there will be lots of pain in the middle parts, and pain - well, pain hurts.

I worry about your H, I worry if he will ever recover from the bad choices. I worry about the kids who shouldn't ever have to cope with things like this, but they may have to.

Often, I believe your H could come through and be what you need him to be. Sometimes I wonder, and you do too - I think I understand that.

After thinking today, please continue. Still have faith, like you do on good days. Look for good days, try to create them, to bring them about. It will help you know what to do when you get to where you HAVE to know.

Life is interresting, luck is mostly what we make it into. I have faith in you because of what you have made yourself into - that's a compliment, just in case you wondered.

You have lots of friends that care about you. I hope that helps.

SS

SS,

Thank you. You said so much, with so little words.

I worry about the kids too. Regardless of what happens, I will be okay. I know it. It is all about the kids. They are the big reason why I try so hard. They do deserve a complete family if it can be accomplished.

Recently, H has been associating more with family oriented folks, and those who don't have families are committed to their girlfriends. So, that helps.

He has been trying lately. Nicer to me, talks more about the future, buying some land, building a cabin, family vacation next summer and the summer after that. He has the next two planned.

I saw one bad thing today. I have H's car. It is time of an oil change. It was due a month ago, time wise, but is is about 2-3000 miles over the mileage. How could an unemployed man, who stayed home most of the time, be that far over the miles?

HI Sue,

Interesting where has he been driving?

You asked me on my thread how did you stay?
I thought about you today and how funny it was that YOU would ask that.
At first I stayed because I was bound and determind not to fail,everyone said we wouldn't make it we were too young.
Then I stayed for the very same reason you are doing what you do now,the kids needing a home a safe place to come when the world was cruel.
We are the same age but I feel I have already lived what you are living now in a sence,if noone else understands why you do what you do why you choose to stay,I do understand Ive already been there.To others looking from the outside in they can not understand but from the inside you understand completly.

I am so glad to see some small changes in your H.What a nice break for you.Sometimes cuddling is better,its just what you need. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue, ginger,

Everyone has their reasons for staying. When I first got here.....many folks told me to leave my husband. But "why" do you stay? is alot different from "how" do you stay? When I ask "why?" I'm really just interested in the reasons you have for wanting to stay. There is no "how" in it....like it's a implication of being unable to believe on understand the reasons. I am very pro-marriage so I know a million reasons to stay....but there are definitely a few worth leaving for too. Abuse, addiction, repetitive infidelity, lack of remorse. Most marriages I believe CAN be saved, but not all marriages SHOULD be. But I'm not the one who gets to choose for anyone, and no one gets to choose for me. Where there is hope for better....I WILL persevere...that is how I am. I don't regret riding this out and saving my family. hugs to both of you.

[ July 09, 2003, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

If my M fails, I know it will not be for lack of trying. I have to stay until I cannot stay any longer. I hope things never get to that point in my M.

I know, I wonder too, where he has been driving? He has been unemployed since January, just went back to work. I've been home during the daytime, and so has he.

Hi Sue,
Its my day off so I got up early might be my only chance to go on the computer or have time alone so I thought I would check in now.

Hope all is well for you today.I am courious at what type of work you do right now can you tell me? I know you work the evening shift is it in the medical field?

If H works days and you work nights that must be hard on your M also.We did that for years when the kids were small to save on daycare.It does begin to take its toll on you.Now my H usually only has two late shifts a week,like yesterday I get home around three in the afternoon and he leaves at 4:15 for work so those days we don't really see each other at all.

What happened with the puppy? Did you get it or not.

I too believe in marriage if it can be saved I am all for it to many people jump ship in my oppinion but there are time you just have to call it quits.I sure hope that things don't get to that point for you and your H.It seems lately your H has been different maybe he relized the grass is not greener on the other side.I had a customer say to me one time and it was so true,she said"The grass is not always greener on the other side,sometimes you just need to water your own grass" I really liked that and how true it is especially when there are kids involved.

Well have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Answer to the Puppy question. I guess we are getting it. H's reasoning is, I did not say "no". If I really did not want it, I would have said "no". And he is right. I am not in total agreement with it. I have my reasons, and if he waits on me, the puppy will be gone and grown up.

When we got the dog we have now, I was not in total agreement with him either. Every dog we looked at I saw as a potential "baby killer" who was waiting to maul my babies. We have had him for 4 years now, and I almost trust him with my kids. I will not give him up.

So, needless to say, I am thinking the same of these cute adorable puppies who will grow into monster dogs who see my childrens as dinner. I have trust issues, in case you cannot tell. I am very over protective of my kids. The dog has to prove to me that I can trust him.

Honestly, I was leaning towards saying yes.

I work with putting specialized material on a network for subscribers. I don't want to indulge more than that because there is not too many businesses that do what we do. And, yes what we do is legal, and non ofensive.

Nothing more to report on the homefront. About the same. H is trying to help come up with the $$ for boards.

Sue,

Glad to hear H is willing to help with your boards.That must be a big relief.

I understand about not giving out to much info.I feel the same that is why I let my first thread run dry,at least I thought I did and then it popped up yesterday.I should have picked a different screen name if any one from this town found this web site and read on my post they would know just who we were and being that I have not told people about what I am going through it would be a big mess.People here have nothing better to do then gossip.I swear you can not go to the bathroom without someone in town knowing all about it.
One time H and I had a fight nothing big,he went to work and joking he said I was mad at him and was going to leave him.By the next day it was all over town that we were getting a divorce and I had everyone calling me asking if I needed anything it was so stupid ever since then we try and keep our mouths shut even if we are just kidding around.

Good luck with the dog!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You mean good luck to H with the dog, H will be training it. I do not train dogs. I have all I can do to raise my kids so they don't become mass murderers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok tell your H I said good luck with the dog.

I doubt your kids would grow up to be that!!!
after all look at thier mom.She seems like one really great lady!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Where is the blushing icon

I don't know but I needed it too when I read all that mushy stuff you guys put on my thread.

You underestimate your own internal strenght. You are one amazing woman. I know if my H did half of what yours had done, I would be long gone, kids or no kids. I can be a very tolerant person. I draw the line with chemical abuse.

Everything that has happened in my life I have just taken in stride.I never really thought about it as me being strong and dealing with stuff I just did what I had to do I do not think it is anything special.But what has happened now this has done me in.I don't know how to take it in stride like everything else, maybe thats why H thinks I am just dwelling on it having what he calls my pity party.

Or could it be that it makes him face the reality of his decision and he is having a hard time dealing with it, so he is trying to sweep it under the rug. He can sweep all he wants, it is still there, now it is under the rug, instead of on top of the rug where you have to deal with it because it is in sight.

There are some men that don't want to deal with the hard emotion stuff.

[ July 11, 2003, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

You said it Sue that is just what he wants.

That is what I told H that we must deal with this or one day it will blow up in our faces.All the other things I just went on but this I wont I want to deal with it the right way make sure all the pain is delt with so we can truely move forward and have a great M.that is my goal.

Some people can be very thick skulled.

Do you think some of it might be the chemical abuse that has gone on in the past effecting the way he thinks?

Sue if you have not figured it out by now my H is a MSpig and I do not mean disrespect by this he will tell you himself and be proud of it.

He always thinks he is the victim in every situation including this.Therefore since it is over I need to forget it happend thats what he says.

He is also very very selfish but most people who have A's are. Even in recovery he is selfish everything on his terms.I should say that he does try but it doesn't last long.

What is a MSpig?

I still wonder how much of his attitude is related to his past chemical abuse.

One thing I learned from my engagement with an alcoholic, is that it is common that they blame everyone else for their problems. It is not because they made bad choices. (The chemical rehab he was in, where friends and family was invited to participate in meetings)

a male shovenist(sp)pig.
I thought if I did not spell it out it would not look so bad.

Sue I am sorry I am being very negative, today has not been a real good day for me.

H and I were both off.I did house work,took care of the grandkids did all the laundry and that is not easy because right now living in the apt.I have to walk to over to the laundry room.
H went to pick up his paycheck and then to the movies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This did not settle well with me.

Ginger,

Do not apologize for being negative. You do not have to be upbeat all the time. I'm sure the last time you checked you are human <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sue, ginger,

LOL News FLASH****** All men are men....well aside from the swishy kind...they are all chauvinistic to a degree. But Sue's H, and yours too ginger, and mine if I'd let him...will happily become cake eaters until something changes. We can't change them, we have to change US. One day soon....miss Sue will be in a position to do what is necessary to either end this affair, or end this marriage. I have spent two awful years rebuilding my marriage to get to recovery. Ginger, you will one day hopefully, develop the assertiveness you need to change the course of your life. In the meantime, we are all learning and hopefully helping eachother. You women are truly amazing....and it is wonderful to know you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sue and Star,

Thanks!

I hate not being happy.

I am happy to get to know you two too, and I cannot leave out SS, FBOW, and FMWB, and everyone else. (If I tried to name them all, it would be like at the Oscars, when the celebs spend 30 mins on the list of thank you names.)

I took H by surprise

I decided to call him up, just to say "I love you" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He was surprised, did not now what to say.

After he regained some composure,

H responds: What did you do wrong?

me: Nothing, can't a wife tell her husband she loves him?

I did it because I felt like it.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sue you are always full of surprises it sounds like.

And me too,I am really glad to chat with everyone here.For me it is the only way to talk about all that is happening I don't have anyone else so thanks everyone.

Hi Sue,
It's an honor to be mentioned in your post. You bring tons of common sense, reminding of the reality of being human, yet hope and perserverance as well.
I really appreciate your input as you are a Mom and know how it affects your point of view and timing, and also how carefully you choose your actions as it's more than just you and your H being affected.
I am doing OK alone. Very tired because of the heat so relaxing in the evening rather than doing overdue chores. I don't feel too guilty, but hopefully will finish some of them during next week. I also re-read my thread and generally think a lot, especially about plan B. In my situation lying and dishonesty drains my $LB fast. More than the actual contact. More than knowledge of being unloved. More than rejection. Because honesty even if only about painful facts and feelings was the last thing left over after D day. And now I feel and sometimes know, there is no more.

Have a good weekend,
FBOW

FBOW,

We are responsible for creating our own happiness, what I mean by this, is we cannot look to others to make us happy, or be the reason for our happiness. By the same token, the actions of others can be the cause of our unhappiness. These are two totally different things.

At some point, we have to decide if the actions of someone else is interfering in our ability to find happiness. When the time comes, we all have to make decisions about the person or cause of our unhappiness.

Hi Sue - I've been out of the loop for a while, but wanted to check up on you. By the way, I changed my name... It got too cunfusing when I would read other posts and they refered to a MC, and I kept thinking... "hey, I never told you that" LOL

How are things going for you? Have you taken your board yet? Although I don't get here very much anymore, I think of you often!!! You were the one person here who "saved" me from myself in the "early days"!!! I really don't think I would be where I am right now without your wisdom!!!

Please know you are always in my thoughts and prayers, and I wish only the best for you... now and always!!!

-mac (aka mc needs your help)

Hi Sue,

Hows the weekend going?
Fun stuff with H I hope.

I would like to say no I am not amazing.
But I find your helpful advise to all very very amazing.You seem like you have it all together so strong so secure.I like that.

I hope to learn some things from you.

Have a good weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I wish I felt like I have it as together as you guys think. Thanks

Today H had a ball tournament. I don't like going to this one, he knows it. He gets so frustrated playing in this one. He does it because a friend keeps signing up for it.

We went to a city celebration, one of the guys on the team lives there, they are right on the main strip, so we sat in chairs in their yard and watched the events.

H made the comment that he has been doing alot with me lately. and he has

Hi Sue,

H made the comment that he has been doing alot with me lately. and he has

So tell me, what is the "rule of time" doing to the inside of Sue's heart?

H must be impressed to comment on it, but I want to know what it's doing for Sue.

SS

What is it doing for me?

Well, I feel good inside, like I matter to him. It also triggered some bad dreams last night. I'm sure they stemmed from fear.

H is at a softball tournament, I didn't go. I was not planning on going. I dreamed last night that H had OW there. No, logically in the light of day, I know he would not have her at this tournament. Too many people that know me are on this team. One of the wives of one of the team members, would not tolerate H doing this, she would tell him off in a heartbeat, she may or may not tell me.

H is the type, that will not bring her around to anyone who knows me or if he suspects they will tell me.

I had other illogical dreams surrounding OW and H.

The other day, I checked his cell phone, it had been 3 days since his call log showed they talked. (Almost afraid to tell this, for fear of jinxing the reduction in contact). I don't know what this means if anything.

Time will tell. Patience is a virtue which I am learning to develop.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Sue with hope:
FBOW,

We are responsible for creating our own happiness, what I mean by this, is we cannot look to others to make us happy, or be the reason for our happiness. By the same token, the actions of others can be the cause of our unhappiness. These are two totally different things.

At some point, we have to decide if the actions of someone else is interfering in our ability to find happiness. When the time comes, we all have to make decisions about the person or cause of our unhappiness.<hr /></blockquote>I really like this post you made Sue. It is so very true. My luck has been so bad lately, it has been work for me to create my own happiness. I feel beat up by life lately to be quite honest, but I know I have to keep moving forward.

I'm happy to see you guys are spending more time together. Use this time to Plan A him to the hilt, I'm betting it will be worth it. Now that you are out of school life should start getting a little easier... right? Keep spending as much time with him as you can. If he's with you... he's not someplace else... if you get my drift.

Oh, and thanks for mentioning me in your post above. I've been following (and rooting for) you for some time now.

IMO - Your H's OW is a distraction from his insecurities.

That's my one sentence summary of their A. I could be way off, I'm just going off of what you have posted here.

I've got an idea... Play this song for him, see if he gets a hint. (I love this song!! LOL)

RIGHTEOUSLY
(Williams)

You don't have to prove
Your manhood to me constantly
I know you're the man can't you see
I love you Righteously

Why you wanna dis me
After the way you been kissin me
After those pretty things you say
And the love we made today

When you run your hand
All up and run it back down my leg
Get excited and bite my neck
Get me all worked up like that

Think this through
I laid it down for you everytime
Respect me I give you what's mine
You're entirely way too fine

Arms around my waist
You get a taste of how good this can be
Be the man you ought to tenderly
Stand up for me

Flirt with me don't keep hurtin me
Don't cause me pain
Be my lover don't play no game
Just play me John Coltrane

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Sue,

Lets see you have shocked him this week with your phone call,now he is noticing the time you spend together and less contact with OW.Not a bad week for you Sue.

What is happening with your boards you havent said much about that lately?

And bad dreams...........sometimes thats all they are.Are mind is a powerful thing and sometimes it is so hard to control it.I am learning this too.

Talk to you soon.

No progress on boards yet. Still about half short. Each week, I keep hoping to have it.

We are trying to refinance the house. If all goes well, then we will have the money by the end of the month, maybe sooner.

I keep studying. It is all I can do. I've called around a few places, to inquire about employment opportunities, especially since, right now, I cannot do the job. One sent me an application with a note, saying that they will give me equal consideration. So, with them I will send in my application now.

FMWB - I'm sorry you are having a bad a bad time right now. Will talking about it help?

MC - I like MAC the Wife. So, how goes it?

This summer is flying by.

I'm going to balance the checkbook, go grocery shopping, so I don't have to do it tomorrow and concentrate on boards again. I think I had caught a virus or something. I did not feel sick, but I was very tired. Everything I did wore me out and I took a nap. Today, I'm not as tired, but still just a little. Who knows.

[ July 13, 2003, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I forgot to mention, H left the house around 8 this morning, it is now almost 10pm. Well, I don't have to say what I am thinking. I guess, it was good while it lasted.

He has his phone off. I'm sure if I check the call log, I know what I will see.

Hi Sue,

Im tired too.
But it is taking care of two toddlers I think.My teen watches them during the day when I am at work but I try to take over when I get home.If they are not ready for bed when I am my D takes care of putting them to bed.I think I am going to meet my oldest D on wed.so she can take the kids back.It will be a little earlier than she wanted about a week but with my son coming home on friday there just is not enough room for every one.I hate to see them go but I am so tired, they have so much energy.

have a good night

Ginger, Sue,
Get some rest on weekends, both of you. You do too much all the time, and you ought to catch up and get a nap or something on Sunday afternoon.

Sue,
Darn it, take the boards. Maybe I ought to get up a fund and have everyone send you twenty or something. Dont' chew me out, just trying to help. Sell H's car if you have to.

Just kidding - sort of.

You are doing a great job of supporting others here right now, even with all your own pain and troubles. I have to admire that. I wish your H would wise up.

Still praying.

SS

Hi SS,

I might have the $$ to pay for boards. I'm going to do a final once over, to see what bills we have to pay, what we expect to get for income, with what we have in the checking. It looks good right now. So, I'm hoping it will stay that way.

Hey SS,

I was thinking the same thing!I'll be the first to give if Sue lets me, I'll even give more than 20 if it means she'll take those boards soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Rest on the weekends..........I work some weekends and I did this past weekend and on Sunday I had to be at work at 5 am that means I get up about 3:40am thats why I am so tired.

Hows everything today Sue?

Okay - I slept most of the day. I think I caught a virus or something. I have been very tired the last few days. Going to Dr. tomorrow.

Everything I do wears me out.

Good news, Knee is getting better. I'm moving around almost back to normal.

H said he was was looking at something for someone. Says he talked to the guy about it the night we were at friends home. Remember when I stopped to talk and you and D kept walking.

I reminded him that if D and I kept walking, I could not have heard the conversation, and he never told me about it.

Maybe it is the truth. Cell phone does not show calls to OW in a few days. The cell phone also did not show calls made to the home yesterday either.

Sorry to hear you don't feel well does that mean you missed work today?

I missed the post you wrote I just read it about H being gone all day what happened with that?

Is that the same thing you are talking about with him checking on something with someone?

Boy I am confussing myself here.

Sue I just wanted to tell you thanks you told me of your dream of OW and now I had one myself last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> and I felt so strange all day.Today was the first time since D-day H has not called me at work he swears he did but I never got a page for a phone call,could have been a mixup I don't know.

I'm at work. I feel like going to sleep.

yes, the two are the same, H being gone all day/evening and he says he had to go to some guys house and look at something.

He could be telling the truth, but then again, he could not

Sorry to hear that,

Funny how our lives seem to parellel each others,yesterday a guy came over my H said to make a cd,then they left to go outside I thought he would be right back inside but he did not come in I looked out side and could see them nowhere,H swears they were out at the pool sitting by the table,I did not see them.Maybe I was blind and just missed them but that was to wierd.

Then he was on the computer last night sunday the day he always talked to OW,he stayed on the computer and I went on to bed.Bought back a major flash back for me I just lay in bed and cried I could not take it.He came in soon after but then I have the dream of OW I don't know I am sure it is just me but I just have a really awful feeling inside lately.

What do you mean awful feeling?

I am going to take the kids swimming real quick I will check in when I get back and try to explain ok.

okay

Swimming at 10pm at night or are you in Pacific time zone. (I'm central)

I'm pacific so it was only 8pm. and a very hot day so you cant go out to much the evening is the best.It was pretty relaxing if you count making sure two toddlers don't drown relaxing.

Anyway I am sure this feeling is nothing I think it has more to do with triggers,it was around this time last year that H met OW so anytime he does something that reminds me of life before the A I get a little crazy.
Most of the time since d-day I have lived with a knot in my stomach I guess I have just gotten use to it but sometimes the sick feeling is worse than others.We did not have a good weekend he even left to sleep in other room one night that really bothered me I told him he was very selfish only thinking of his feeling not mine,he won't talk to me about how I feel so I have found myself just not talking at all.

I'm kind of stupid,what is the time difference between us 2 or 3hours?

Ginger,
Shame on you. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean you are stupid. Thirty lashes with some goose down so you will remember not to use DJ's about yourself.

Sue,
I thank you for kind words, but I seem to have seen a gal named "Sue with Hope" that has given some very good support lately, even with a problem knee, a crazy home life, money troubles and life in general, you still have time to help others. I search for a way to get FBOW to know how good she really is, and I want you to know the same about yourself. I believe you already know that you will be fine. I think you do, you have said as much yourself. I just want you to understand that I know you know it, so I leave you alone about it most of the time, but I think about you too. You are pretty important, I hope you know that.

SS

SS- It is still nice to hear it once in awhile. And, I figured out that you care, otherwise, you would not keep posting.

I've been meaning to tell you, chocolate is for all day long. (which might explain why I have troubles losing the baby weight (okay, the baby is 4 years old, so I guess I cannot blame being pregnant any longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Since this would be a MAJOR LB to say to my H, I'm going to say it here.

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF CLEANING UP AFTER LAZY MEN WHO THINK MY WHOLE PURPOSE IN LIFE IS TO CLEAN UP BEHIND THEIR LAZY BEHINDS!!!!!!! I HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO CARE ABOUT. SUCH AS ME

That being said, I feel a little better. I'd feel a whole lot better if I could yell it at H.

Went to the Dr. today, I got a presecription for an antibiotic. Sinus issues, again. It does not surprise me. My mom suffered horribly. She never went to the Dr. I think that might have something to do with why she had very poor health in her later years.

FBOW has to realize for herself how wonderful she is. We can help, by telling her. There was a time in my life, I questioned myself, my decision, everything. I came to realize who I am, by having time for myself. (this was pre children phase, so this helped). Also, after my second child was born, I had esteem issue. Most of them were because of H's treatment of me. His leaving me was the best thing he could do for me. I had time to find myself, get strong again. It has helped to prepare me in away to deal with it this time around. I decided right away, I was not going to lose myself in trying to keep my M intact.

I read alot of self esteem books, I wish I could remember the titles. If I find them, I will let FBOW know.

I will think more on this.

Time to shower and leave for work.

Talk later

[ July 15, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Ginger - Yes, it is a 2 hour difference between us. When I am up, you are still snoozing.

And you would be surprised at how many people really do not know that, so you are not dumb to ask. And you had it right.

It is perfectly normal to have triggers around D-day. It is also normal for behavior that was part of the A to be triggers. To be told different is avoidance of the other person to face reality. (JMHO). I should say instead of JMHO, just my very opinionated ways. (I am very opinionated and I know it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF CLEANING UP AFTER LAZY MEN WHO THINK MY WHOLE PURPOSE IN LIFE IS TO CLEAN UP BEHIND THEIR LAZY BEHINDS!!!!!!! I HAVE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO CARE ABOUT. SUCH AS ME

That being said, I feel a little better. I'd feel a whole lot better if I could yell it at H.

After I found MB, I realized a lot of things. One of them was that if she was working in the home, I needed to be also. I usually make the bed in the morning. I pick up my clothes and get them in the hamper. After all, I do love her, and she is my partner, not my slave. It took me years, and I figure that if I could learn, all the other husbands that love their wives can too. You'll get a chance to cover this with your H if he wants to stay around.

The reason is selfishness. I believe any two people with similar goals who are unselfish can have a happy marriage.

Please don't give me credit. I was just like your H for a long time, my wife could have written what you wrote. What this means, is that you have a chance at happiness too, that your H may be able to give you what you need. You have it even better, if he won't come around, you have a really good reason to ditch him and get a newer model and you know enough now to check him out first to see if he can be trained.

With FBOW it is not just a matter of how wonderful she is, all of you gals are wonderful. It is that she doesn't trust herself and her emotional desisions. She knows she can function well in the psyical world, she has done so for years, but she worries about things that affect her family emotionally. She takes the marriage problems as personal failure, and she needs to realize it is not her fault. (at least I believe so.)

Your H has good in him too. Sometimes I wonder if he can pull out of this, often I think he can.

I have a lot of faith in you also Sue, it would be hard not to.

I suppose I won't say "have fun at work," but at least do reasonably well.

SS

[ July 15, 2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

What I find most frustating is, early in our R, he was kind, considerate, unselfish.

He was that way for most of it, something happened after our second child was born. Maybe I also set the tone, when he was working full time, and going to school fulltime, I did not expect him to do anything around the apartment, except study. After he finished school, I expected it to go back to the way it was.

He used to help with dishes, laundry, cleaning. When we first lived together (OMG, they cohabitated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) (I'll never do that again).
I worked two jobs, he did all the laundry, alot of the cooking, he did not mind doing the dishes. I thougth I died and went to heaven. I remember waking up one morning, and after I got up, he said, oh, good, you are up. I didnt' want to run the vacuum cleaner until you got up. I did not want to wake you. You work alot during the week. I was going to let you sleep.

He also did my laundry for me. He said he did not touch my silk blouses, because he did not want to ruin them.

Like I said, I thought I died and went to heaven. Thought I found every womens dream man.

He was this way most of the time. Somewhere during my pregnancy of our second child, he changed. He started getting selfish, did not want me around, spent alot of money, we barely made it. We split during this period. He met OW, while we were still together. I didn't know what I was going to do.

It seemed like he changed back to the considerate man I first fell in love with. He hinted at us moving in together again. I said not unless we are married. We dated for 2 years, got married. Things were okay, as time went on, he got more selfish again.

On and off, I see the unselfish man. So I know he exists.

Can I have a robot instead. That I can program, and it will not argue back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I hope he will show his unselfish ways, has you have learned to do.

Sometimes I wonder if TV did not help matters. My H, grew up watching alot of TV. Back then, it was always the women who did the work around the house, with little to no help from the guys. He did not have two parents to show how normal famileis do things.

Even the commercials made it sound like women get a thrill from seeing their faces in their dishes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Or the nice shiny floor.

I honestly think my H, thinks I sit around all morning watching TV. I admit the last week, I spent the time sleeping. (that is not normal for me). I had all these plans of things to get done this past week. I lost a week of studying. I tried. Fell asleep alot with a book in my lap.

So, any suggestions on how to get him to realize I need and want help?

He claims he works hard too, after all, he reroofed the house. (now we do not reroof the house everyday, and he has been working on it for almost a year).

He does the yard work (he pays our oldest to mow the grass, I weed the gardens) Before that, he paid the neighbor boy to mow the grass until he moved. I made the mistake of mowing one time, and H did not mow again. At this point, I refused to mow again. I knew he was now expecting me to mow the grass too.

I take out the trash,

So, where is the man I fell in love with? That is what I want to know. He was good about this stuff the first two years we were together.

Sue and SS,

I love reading what you guys post it seems it always helps me with what ever the day has brought.
I too do not like feeling like I am here only to wait on my H,as a matter of fact that is probably what started this whole A thing.
I work also,occasionally my H will surprise me by doing the dishes or picking up not often.I am usually going around the house picking up his stuff from where ever he dropped it off I can always tell where he has been.Shoes,socks,pants,shirt ect.a long trail and guess whats at the end of it? I usually find the little man that made the mess!Like right now he was leaving for work and hunting all over for his wallet he did not even remember where he put it.There I am like helping a child looking for his stuff so he is not late to work.I told him "It sure is a good thing your head is screwed on your neck or I would be looking for that too."I swear if it is not his wallet it is his keys.

And chocolate.....................It use to be the number 1 food item in my diet,even the A has made that craving go away.

Hope you fell better Sue,I know just how you feel being a sinus suffer myself lots of problems infections and allergy.I know how that can just wipe you out.Gives me really bad headaches.

Talk to again soon.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> With FBOW it is not just a matter of how wonderful she is, all of you gals are wonderful. It is that she doesn't trust herself and her emotional desisions. She knows she can function well in the psyical world, she has done so for years, but she worries about things that affect her family emotionally. She takes the marriage problems as personal failure, and she needs to realize it is not her fault. (at least I believe so.) <hr /></blockquote>This does some how relate to self esteem. When you have more confidence in yourself, you have more confidence in your decisions, whether they be right or wrong. When the time comes for her to make the decision, it will be the right one for her. She will be strong enough emotionally at that time to ge their for her children.

I worry about things that will effect my family emotionally, also, I also know that that, in the worst case scenario, they will be hurt, they will be devestated. They will also be okay in time. And I will be strong enough to help them through it. (I hope things never come to this)

As far as marriage being a personal failure, I agree, it is not her fault. And in time, she will realize it.

Marriage, takes two to create, and takes two to make it work. If one does not care or try, the one that is trying, can only try so long until, she decides they are done.

As with me, I know, I tried, I have tried for a very long time. Emotionally, I am ready for what ever happens. Good or bad. It is the other areas I need to get ready, such as the financial area. So, when the time comes, he will be making some decisions.

However, If it goes to Plan B, I honestly believe it will be a very short Plan B before I move on. Will it be fair to my H? No, after all, I have had more time to adjust to the worst case scenario. Whereas for him, it will be more of a surprise.

When I have a moment, I will pop over to FBOW and say this. I'm not sure why, I know she will read this here.

Hi Sue
How are you feeling?
Any better now that you are on some meds?

Sue,
You understand so well, that sometimes I almost forget you need support.

HOWEVER, we all need it, so I try to give it as best I can. I hate to see you wait so long, It just makes it harder on you.

It seems to me that yours is a really good example of how hardship produces growth and improvement.

At the time, it is not fun at all, but looking back, it often seems to be worth it. I hope when you look back in a few years you are happy with the results. I think you will be.

SS

Thanks

Yes, I am feeling better. Last night I had troubles getting to sleep. Got up today and was back into my usual routine and I don't need a nap. Maybe that is not a good thing, at least today. I took an unwanted trip down memory lane and I did not like the memories.

Tell me again, why do I love him and want my M to work. Here goes all the bad stuff that came back to me.

Hi Guys,

Today is okay. Many memories from the past. Bad memories. They are from when H first met OW, cheated, lied, made me feel like I was crazy, and everything was my fault.

I remember leaving work early one day, H did not want me to pick him up from work. Said he had a ride. As I am walking through the living room, I see out the window a red cavalier leaving. H went and got his check from the mail box and she took him to the bank to deposit it.

When he left, he went to stay with a friend. I don’t know if this was good or bad, but I had friends that lived in his neighborhood. The way it was set up, you had to drive past their block to get to my friends block. (And that was going out of my way to get to my friends, the shortest route was to go by the house). Her car would be parked outside. My friends told me they saw it their almost daily.

Once, I called to talk to him, he said he was out of breath from running. Now this is a man who does not get out of breath from running, he played softball 5 nights a week back then. Tournaments almost every weekend. He had that out of breath sound one gets from lovemaking in the process. So, all I could think of was while he was talking to me on the phone, you guys can guess what she was doing.

Before H left, there was a tournament that H did not tell me about. I found out that all the wives and girlfriends were there. H tells me, when he is at friends house, to pack up the kids and come for a BBQ. I get there, H comes running to the car, takes oldest S, and leaves me to deal with youngest son, baby bag, food he told me to bring. Wives and girlfriends are introducing themselves to me, and said they had hoped to have met me at the game.

H would go running and come back not sweaty in June/July.

After H had left and we had started dating again, H wanted to look at townhomes to buy. I meet him as he asked on a complex being built, and they had the model homes to look at. I get there, the guy comes out, I told him that my boyfriend wanted me to meet him here. He wants me to consider us buying one. I told the salesman that my H was here a couple of days ago. I told him his name, and he calls me by her name. It was on the card they filled out when they first visited. I was very hurt and upset.

H gets there, and I am waiting for him, because he volunteered to pick up the boys for me on his way. I told him I looked at it, and I want the boys so I can go home. H knew I was upset. I told him why. He said, she tagged along. So, why did they fill out the card as if they were looking as a couple.

When H moved out of his friends house, and into an apartment, he said he was sharing it with a friends who were a couple. I wondered if the couple was them. I asked him, he said no. I did not know if I should have believed him.
H was in a car accident one time, snow storm, icy roads. He had whiplash from it. So, he could not work for a while. I brought down the insurance cards to him. He did not know where his was. He did not want me to stay to drive him home. I offered. I now know, she was with him when they had the accident. I recently found a bill from the chiropractor in her name. They were seeing the same chiropractor.

H was coaching HS level hockey with his uncle. They had an out of town tournament, it was far enough away to get a room, but close enough to drive back and forth if you wanted to. On the way to the tournament, H says to me, “you might hear a rumor about OW, using me as her boyfriend.” I question, why would she do that. “Because she is going to a party, and some guy is bugging her to go out, and she does not want to go out with him. She is pretending I am her boyfriend”. I commented how High Schoolish that behavior is, and why doesn’t she just say she is not interested. H tried convincing me that it was better this way. I was not buying that story. He could tell, and he ended it with, I knew you would be upset by this. Lets drop it.

I knew that what ever party she was going to, someone who knew me was going to be their, and he was afraid word would get back to me that she is telling everyone about their R.

My sister was invited to a wedding that H was invited to, and so was OW. My sister said it was so comical. She kept trying to behave affectionate, you know, hand on shoulder, that sort of stuff, and H kept shrugging her off.

God, I was so stupid. I know, I believed him because I wanted to. I questioned whether or not I should have believed him.

We never resolved this stuff.

I knew before we got married I should have resolved these issues. I knew I should have. I was afraid to confront at the time. I was afraid he would leave me again. I did not want that.

You know what, even though these memories are at 6-8 years old, they are still painful to recall.

I also know that I am not afraid of his walking when I confront. I will be okay if he leaves me. I just have to make sure I am ready for it.

I would have preferred my worst memory in life to be the one where I forgot I had Gym that day in HS, (We wore white blouses with dark blue shorts). And that day I chose to where my red bra, because I was wearing a red sweater that day. (I had a male gym instructor) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

hi sue!

i really starting to read others post now! before it was to painful! Geee's.....! I feel for you!

but i have a question for you. was it around this time last year you found out about your H's A?

Randy left one year ago on the 19th! I remember last year i kept on holding back the tears. i kept on thinking, "this is not the way it should be! i am married to him. we should be together damn it"! I started to miss him the day he accepted that freakin job! I sobbed all day! But I had my son's surgery on my mind too.

so what do you do when those nasty little triggers hit? Zorwebs description of a memory. Because I have them all the time!

Ali What about that bonfire is WI cheeseland?

sorry about my typing. I am typing with one hand and our keyboard is messed up! you'd think after 8 months of it being broken, i'd by a new one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I found out about the A, a year ago last April. Most of the time I do pretty good. The first couple of months were horrible. I also had school and my goal to graduate to keep me focused on myself, so I was able to distract myself from the issues of the A.

I usually make it through July without any problems. 8 years ago, he left me for the same OW. 6 months later we started dating again. 2 years later we married. As you saw from my last post, I was afraid to ask about the OW, and we never resolved it. Now I wonder if it ever really ended. I really don't think it did.

When I get a trigger, I usually allow myself the time to cry about it. I don't yell at H, or take it out on him. Besides, most of the time, he is not around when I get a trigger. When I push it back, it keeps coming to the surface and each time it screams louder at me until I deal with it. I found that out when I was not dealing with the discovery that the A was either restarted or still going on. Because of school, I was able to successfuly push it back. Boy, when a break hit, I hit a all time low.

Lately I have been having dreams of OW, and past stuff has been comeing back to haunt me. Probably because we never resolved it back then. My H like to sweep things under the rug. He is a conflict avoider, and I am somewhere inbetween avoiding and confronting.

It takes time. It took me about 6 months from when he first left me 8 years ago, to get to a point where I could move on. That is when he came back. He saw I was moving on without him.

Oh, and I have not heard anything more about the Bonefire in WI. (did you notice I refrained from WI jokes this time).

I'm sure an update will be comeing soon

Hi Sue,

Long day for me I just got home and decided to check in before I went to bed and I am so glad I did a nice chance for me to get to know just a little bit more about you.

What you are talking about is just what I am dealing with the need to work through and deal with the issue at hand so that in years to come it does not come back to haunt us(me & H)He does not want to deal with his infidelity he wants to sweep it under the rug.

Like you brought up in your post by not really resolving the problem is that what is causing the turmoil you are finding yourself faceing now.
And who is this woman that would be satisfied with a part time man.Does she have no brains!!Cant she see by now that the chances of your H leaving you are probably slim or don't you think he would be gone by now?

I am so sorry to hear of all you have went through with H.You say your life looks like a walk in the park compared to mine.I don't think so Sue you have been through alot.

You don't say alot about your boys I am just curious how old are they? They must be very good boys.I love little boys they are so sweet,I have a very close relationship with my oldest son he is almost 26 and still thinks mom can fix anything if there is a problem he calls mom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I just wish it was that simple and I really could just fix everything.

Try and have a good night talk to you soon.

Tell me again, why do I love him and want my M to work. Here goes all the bad stuff that came back to me.

Actually, you can leave any time you want to. You really can. BUT, you are still there.

Now, I know all about taking the boards, and getting the job, but you could do it right now if you wanted.

Why don't you tell us the good, why you loved him back then, and why you don't walk now. I know that if Sue's mind was already made up, Sue would be gone. What else holds you there?

SS

Sue I forgot to ask.
What caused the trigger today?
Something H did or said or did not do or say?
Just the date?
Or did something happen today?

Just wondering and worried for you!

You asked, you got the story. Long one, so you might want to get a cup of coffee, or something cold to drink before you settle down to read.

Ginger - your question first - easiest to answer

Boys 9 & 8, They love hockey, they want to be goalies (unless they change their minds again). Expensive sport

Oldest, thinks no one loves him, says he has no friends. When I drop him off at school, for a boy who has no friends, I saw plenty calling his name. Very serious, stubborn and needs lots of hugs

Second one - had a girlfriend in preschool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (thats me frowning) I thought what PRESCHOOL, OMG, what will happen when he is a teenager.

Kindergarten, a girl was passing him notes. Teacher said she was "sweet" on him. Another girl teasing him on bus. (son gets introuble for giving her the bird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )

He likes to tell jokes and make people laugh.

First grade - no girlfriend (thank god)
Second grade - no girlfriends (Wheww,)
Mom is now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Also no more birds on bus

All the kids play soccer.

What caused the trigger, I have no idea. H did not do anything. They just came. Maybe it is the month of July. I don't know. Maybe things are going to good, and I got scared.

SS-

Why did I fall in love with him.

When we first met, I thought him aroggant and conceited. Over time, I saw a nice, sweet, considerate, respectful man who coached with his uncle the midget hockey level. He played ball a couple of times a week, he was sensitive to my feelings, made me feel special.

I remember when I turned 31, for some reason, when he wished me "happy birthday" I cried. Later his brother wishes me happy birthday, I see H out of the corner of my eye, trying to wave him off. By this time, I did not want to cry. H cooked me a nice dinner, and cake.

When we cohabitated, I was working two jobs. H did the housework. He said, you work alot, and need the rest. He did my laundry. I thougth I died and went to heaven. I thought a man who helps with the housework. Over time, he remained this way. We had a break up because of an ex girlfriend of his. She had a drinking problem and was emotionally unstable. H, would not tell her to quit calling him. He did not want to be responsible for her suicide attempt. (She was successful, for lack of a beter word). About 6 months later, we got back together. H was married before me. I am his second wife. While we were dating again, I realized I was competing with the memory of his first wife. He was not over the divorce. So, I was considering ending it again. I found out I was pregnant with OS. Didn't know what to do. Told H, about PG, we decided to live together again and be a family. H proposes M. I said yes, but I wanted to wait until H was done with school. (H returned to Vo-TEch). All is going well. H is the same man I fell in love with. Kind, considerate, helpful. During this time, I did most of the housework around the apartmen. H was going to school all day every day, then he was working Full time evenings. Weekends was his study time. H graduates from school, I'm pregnant with MS. Things are going okay. Almost as good as before. Somewhere near the end of the pregnancy H starts to change. Shows less interest in me, and our second child, second child is born, H barely wants anything to do with him. And the previous post covers alot of the memories from that time.

Household very stressful. I think I suffered a mild case of postpartum depression, not sure, was not diagnosed.

I keep wondering what happened to the man I fell in love with? Sometimes I see him and other times I get the creepy one. If H was like the creepy one, I never would have been interested in him in the first place.

What keeps me here, I really don't know. OS, has asked me to divorce his dad. If that happens I worry he will blame himself because he asked me to.

I worry about the other two. D is close to her daddy.

When we first moved into the house, things appeared to be okay.

I know I love him. If I didn't he would not be able to hurt me. Love is not enough to make a M work. It is a starting point, but not enough. Besides, I don't know if he loves me. He does not tell me. This past valentines day was the closest he came, He wrote it on the card.

He gave me flowers for our anniversary. He had not done that in years. The last time he gave me flowers prior to this was when he proposed 9 years ago (the first time). He had this really nice engagement ring picked out and everything. (I saw the receipt, it was expensive too.) I thougth I was one lucky girl that he thought that much of me. He was laid off. We needed the money for bills, so he took it off layaway. When we got married, I got a 30.00 gold band. Last anniversary, he bought me a ring with diamonds, not the one I wanted, a smaller version. I decided to accept it, after all, it was an upgrade. Why don't I mean as much to him now as I did when he first proposed.

I always wonder, did he come back because of the CS he was paying me? Did it bother him that I was moving on with my life, and that meant he would be a PT daddy to his boys, and eventually someone else would be a FT daddy.

When he started asking me to date, after we split, I thought I saw the man I fell in love with again. WAs I wrong?

Honestly, I do not move forward because at this time, I could not make it. Yes, it is financial. Rent in our area, for an apartment that would accommodate a family of 4 is almost the same as my morgtage payment. Rent is expensive here. My check would cover the mortgage, daycare and possibly the electric and gas. What would I feed the kids on?, how would I get to work? There is a bus that runs 4 times to my work, that is it. I couldn't even afford the bus fare. I would have to spend about 2 hours oneway riding the bus to get kids to daycare, school and me to catch bus that goes to work. So, a car is the practical way to go.

Kids would have to give up all activities.

AS you can tell, I am not counting on CS to support my family on. I cannot. When H is working, I would get enough CS that I could afford it on my own. When H is unemployed, and in todays unstable economy, that is likely to happen next month. The job he is on, is scheduled to be completed in August. If there is no more work, that means unemploymetn again. Which means, I could not make ends meet on CS based on unemployment wages.

Ideally, I'd like my kids to come from an intact home.

Yes, my mind is made up, once boards are done, and I find a job, I will confront. I know I will be okay then. I cannot do it now.

No, there is no family I can go to for help. My brother can barely support his family. My older sister, makes just enough to support herself, she is happy where she is living and there is no room for me and my kids. My sister just under me, single, lives with my brother and hs wife. (another reason why there is no room for me and kids) Sister just under her, single mom, divorced, works, and gets assistance. I cannot move in with her, she would lose her assistance, her daughter, my neice, just had a baby at the age of 17, so she has that to deal with. Sister under her, doing okay, married, two kids, her H, would not be willing to help us, even by us moving in, sister under her, married to a pot head, both unemployed, sister back in school, baby sister, married to a ,well, lets just leave it at that. I've asked if I seperated from H, if any of them were willing to move in and help with expenses, and kids, no one wants to. Sister who is married and doing well, her H is worried I would lose the house in a divorce, does not want to give up cheap apartment. Other sister does not want to lose the assitance she has, she was on a waiting list for so long to get it. She struggled for years trying to get by, now she is actually making ends meet.

I've given it lots of thought. Kids would be the biggest loser in this if my timing is wrong. They will lose anyway, I want them to have to make minimal sacrifices.

I gotta go to bed. It is 2am my time

[ July 17, 2003, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Somehow saying "Hi Sue" kind of sounds trite after your last two posts.
Maybe I'll just start.

Somewhere near the end of the pregnancy H starts to change. Shows less interest in me, and our second child, second child is born, H barely wants anything to do with him. And the previous post covers a lot of the memories from that time.....................I keep wondering what happened to the man I fell in love with? Sometimes I see him and other times I get the creepy one. If H was like the creepy one, I never would have been interested in him in the first place.

My belief is that people who do things wrong ( have an A) often suffer because of it. It affects all parts of their life, and changes kind, loving people into - well, not so kind and loving people. I believe if he would quit the A, the nice guy would come back to live with you.

What keeps me here, I really don't know. OS, has asked me to divorce his dad. If that happens I worry he will blame himself because he asked me to.

I know you consider everything, and some of it hurts. I believe you are smart enough to make a correct choice. I am not as worried now as I was last fall, because I know you better now. I still wince sometimes when you post your pain.

I know I love him. If I didn't he would not be able to hurt me. Love is not enough to make a M work. It is a starting point, but not enough. Besides, I don't know if he loves me. He does not tell me. This past valentines day was the closest he came, He wrote it on the card.

He'll get his chance. I hope for his sake that he makes the right choice. It would be a foolish man that could give up what you have become. When I say that, I believe I know what you will say, but I stand by it. All of us can do better, but that doesn't take away from the good we do.

I always wonder, did he come back because of the CS he was paying me? Did it bother him that I was moving on with my life, and that meant he would be a PT daddy to his boys, and eventually someone else would be a FT daddy.

We could all play "what if" forever. He is with you, and you have a chance to make this work. You still have a chance.

When he started asking me to date, after we split, I thought I saw the man I fell in love with again. Was I wrong?
Part of him is still in there. I hope you can get him back. Don't worry so much about what happens, he'll make the choice to be your H or not. If he chooses not to, leaving is just a natural consequence, not something done for spite. The best thing he can do for the kids is to love you like he should. Sometimes words fail me.

I've given it lots of thought. Kids would be the biggest loser in this if my timing is wrong. They will lose anyway, I want them to have to make minimal sacrifices.

Remember to take care of you along with the kids. They depend on you for everything. Somehow that makes me feel good about their future.

gotta go to bed. It is 2am my time

I can kind of see you there, thinking, and typing a little. Then thinking some more.

Now it's tomorrow, and another day. Your mood is long gone - today's tasks occupy your time. Just wanted you to know there are other people that understand. Do you know God loves you?

SS

Hi Sue!

That's ok I didn't take any offence! Love the land of Cheese and Holsteins! Don't you know!
It took our move up to WI to figure out what a FIB stands for and Flatlanders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway, I had four rolls of film that needed to be developed and unfortunately two was rolls that I had taken when I was in Texas. Looking at Randy's face in the picture wanting to get rid of me so he can start the physical affair just ripped another hole in me! Seeing that apartment, the date on the pictures, what he looked like then (the cockyness attitude.)I remembering him telling me that when I was in texas, tramp wrote him an e-mail that she wanted a special night alone with him! That is what I see on his face in those pictures!

I thought the rolls were the picture's our baby's surgery and some from Christmas. I didn't realize it was from Texas! So, in other words a trigger hit hard!

I would love to lock myself in the room and cry! But I am not allowed the time and that's where the problem lies! I just stuff it and when I see Randy that pang in my stomach begins! And that is usually when I come on here!

I not sure if I am reading this correctly but you still think your H. might be with the ow?

Ali

Ali,

I think contact is less. I know contact continues. He was with her last november, and I last February.

Well, good news and bad news regarding boards. Good news is, this morning H hands me a check, (he did some work for a friend, and they paid him. They did not feel righ asking him to do it for nothing.) It was more than enough for boards. H tells me to register and schedule my test.

Bad news - I LOST THE CHECK, it is somewhere in the house. I was really tired when he gave ti to me. I saw it on the counter later in the morning, and I thought, I should move it to a safer spot. Well, I would not call it safe. I don't know where it is. I looked all morning. I'm going to look more tommorrow. Hopefully after a good nights sleep, I will remember.

I am so mad at myself. I should have known better. I was tired, I should have known, I would not remember where I put it. I don't remember picking it up.

Hi Sue,

LOST THE CHECK no I did not read that right?
Please tell me you found it.What a nice thing for him to do give you the money.Was there a little bit of your old H in that moment?

As I read what you wrote I can understand completely why you do what you do.I feel I have been there makeing those life changing decisions.You have alot on your shoulders your children are young about the ages mine were when I decided I needed to get out of my M.

I often ask my self why do I love this man after all I have been through.Like you I may not be able to answer the question completely but I know I do because of the pain.It just would not hurt I would not care if I did not love him.

You are a strong person but even strong people need help,a support system, it sounds like you have checked out possibility's and they just are not there,it would be the same for me.It is so hard when you have nobody to depend on except yourself it is hard.

My children over the years have asked me the same question "Mom why don't you leave dad" I always thought how sad that they would be happier if thier father was not here with us.

Sue you will be fine I am sure,I do wonder if your H will be.I don't think he really knows what he has in you.Sometimes we don't until it is gone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I wish I could say I found the check. I'm going to to bed when I get home, get a good nights sleep and hope I remember in the morning what I did with it.

I was so frustrated and mad at myself.

I'll be back later

Hi Sue

Does H know that you miss placed the check?
(I don't want to say that it is lost I'm sure it is not)
What will he do?
My H would probably want to ring my neck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

If you are lurking around out there I just want to tell you that here it is almost the weekend again and I am soooooooooooooooo tired!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

I already told you what to do.

I say, tell the kids once, next time spank them. Is it your turn?
( but I never do, and I'm just kidding.)

Ok, it's hard to be serious this late at night, but I really do think you should get more rest. You and Sue, and FBOW all work to hard. I don't think I could trade places with my W or any of you.

I suppose there are things I can do that she can't do, but I still think you gals are amazing.

Ginger, I do hope you can get some rest, that you don't have to work both days this weekend.

SS

Well, no check yet. I cannot think of another place to look.

I know my H could always tell him, ask him to write another one, and cancel the first one. Deduct the fees from the check. It is not the end of the world. H act like it is.

Bank fees I know are high, but it beats not finding the check.

I will keep looking, today, tomorrow and Sunday. If I still have not found it, then I will tell H, I think he needs to contact the writer of the check and tell them.

Wish me luck.

OK Sue

Good luck.
I hate to say this but I am glad it is you and not me I know how my H would react and it probably would not be pretty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hows everything today?
Feeling better?Physically and emotionally?

I'm ok.not great,not the worst I have ever been just ok.A little irritated,I worked all day yesterday the minute I got home I started putting the house back together after having the kids.Then took lunch to H at work,did the grocery shopping and came home it was about 8:30p by that time I had been on my feet since I woke up at 4:30a I was dead tired.

Come home from work today and the place is a mess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> that makes me so angry like H does not count what I do as anything important.I am not his maid,and to top it off he is out and about enjoying his day off.
Sorry I needed to vent a little,I'm done,I'll try to be nice from now on.

H, is having a cow over it. Right down to where he is name calling. Or I should say, did it once.

Conversation went like this:

Me: If I cannot find it, I know you don't want to, but you could call him, and ask for a new check, minus any bank fees.

H: Oh yeah, I'm supposed to say my dumba** wife lost the check. She lost a $000.00 check.

Me: I did not do it on purpose. I was tired, not thinking straight. You should try walking in my shoes for a month, lets see how you will be.

H: Lets not start that again. I gotta go.

A couple of hours later, I call him

Me: Still mad?

H: Did you find the check?

Me: No. And I looked the whole time. I know losing the check was careless and irresponsible of me. However, that does not justify name calling. When have I named called you? I treat you with more respect than that.

H: I gotta go

I did not say anything when he first insulted me, because if I did it would have been like me telling him to "bite me" or worse. So, I bit my tongue until I could be civil. But I do not let it slide. (This is why my H thinks I am a b****)

I'm not sure he wants me to do all the looking that I am doing. I found an e-ticket to Vegas. I cannot read the dates. I want to know what the dates are for, it will tell me which trip he was on. Is this a trip I already know about, or is this one I don't know about and I thougth he was somewhere else?

I've decided, I do not agree to anymore trips, work related or not.

Hi Sue

Sorry to hear things went like that but I will say I am not surprised.It would have been the same if the situation was here at my house.

Not a good day in this house hold either,I am so tired of my H thinking I am an idiot.Or at least that is how he treats me and if I say anything he brings everything back to the A and how I will never let him live it down.

First of all he stayed up way past 2 in the morning then he comes to bed and wants to cuddle and kiss and I have to get up in a couple of hours,if he was tired and I did that he would be tell me to stop.Then I get up and notice he had drank a whole six pack of beer,that did not make me happy.
When he comes home this afternoon I can tell he has been drinking and when I ask him about it he denies it like I am stupid and cant tell,then he goes into this long story of how he only had a beer I say by your voice I know you have had alot more then one.Thats when he starts acting like your H saying stuff like what ever putting on his head phones I don't want to talk to you stuff like that turning it all around like I am the one starting all the problems.
What is wrong with these guys,why cant they see how they treat us.

I told my H I could not remember how much last weeks bank deposit was that I forgot to write it down,I started looking for the reciept and could not find it he gets all bent out of shape with me I said its not like I don't do anything else all day then manage the check book(which he always seems to screw up by not telling me of his withdraws)
Sorry Sue I guess I should shut up and get off of here I am just not in a good mood right now.

Hope your night goes better I should not write those things you have your own stuff to deal with.Please forgive me for using your post to vent my frustrations on.

Ill check in later with you maybe I will calm down by then.

Ginger,

Thats okay. You need to vent just like everyone else.

I know I have asked you this before, I will ask it again. I'm guessing because of a small town, this is why you don't. Have you looked into Al-anon. I really think you could benefit from it.

And as a small town, I think the town knows your H drinks alot.

Or get books on Co-dependancy. Beware, I've read them, there is a conflict with co-dependancy and some MB principles. Also keep in mind, that when you are dealing with substance abuse, MB principles, ....... I'm trying to find the right wording. They may not be as effective. Alcohol, drugs, etc, effect how the brain thinks. Especially if someone has a problem. I hate to tell you this, I know you want to save your M, but, if he does not do something about the drinking, you may have to make a decision. It bothers you, alot. I can tell, and I was there, not with my H, with someone else. Because of him, I do not tolerate substance abuse. I cannot.

He could quit drinking, if he does not seek professional help with it, from professional chemical depencancy people, well, he may not get the right help. It has been over 12 years since I went to all the support groups and stuff, so my memory on what they said is vague, so I'd hate to misquote something.

How far are you from a larger town/city? Is there one close enough where you could attend Al-anon? I honestly think you would benefit from it.

Just a short note to let you know I still check in on you, Sue. I think you are handling things beautifully.

Right now, I don't know if I should laugh or cry, or maybe both.

Earlier today, H calls me, he is on his way home from work.

Traffic is at a standstill on the freeway. Some guy, not paying attention, rear-ends my H at 60 MPH. H is now in a collar. The guy is also uninsured. I told my H, that one, get to a Dr., two, we will research attorneies. H, was hurting by the time he called me. State Patrol on the way.

H just went back to work after 6 months of unemployment. Now this.

Normally, I'm not quick to call attornies, I have a friend, who was rear-ended 8 years ago, she still has major problems. She had a bad attorney. Poor settlement. She cannot follow most of her Drs. advice because they cannot afford it. If they had a good settlement, then they could have followed his advise. They sold their home, so they could buy one more compatable to her disability. She has to limit her stair walking. Too hard on her back. So, now, I say, call a lawyer, find out what to do, in case. Best case scenario, we did everything for nothing and H is find. Worst is, H is permanently injured, and has to be retrained fro a differnt type of work. That will cost money. His being out of work will cost money

[ July 19, 2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Oh, and MOJ, nice to hear from you again. Sorry I forgot to say that

HI Sue,

I cant believe it,did it total the car?
I thought I only had a life like that,that other people's lives went smooth.

As for H.I guess because he is not a sloppy drunk I don't think of him as needing help or me.But I do know it is a problem because it seems the longest he ever goes with out drinking is a day or two.And he will point it out to me,Ginger I have not drank in two days he might say.
I think it bothers me most because of dark ugly memories of him being really drunk and the things he did.He does not drink like that anymore.Its those haunting memories and the fact that I just don't like it when he has more than two beers he says mean things to me,so therefore I think if he truely loves me like he says then he would do it for me to make me happy.
An occasional drink on the holidays or a BBQ would not bother me.

As for the closest city or town with resources.I would have to drive 100 miles each way.I cant do that right now.I drive out of town so much as it is.We bought a new car 1 1/2yrs. ago I have over 30,000 miles already I think they say average driving is between 12,000 to 15,000 a year,by the end of the year I will probably have close to or over 40,000 on my car.

H is up so I am going to go talk to you later

Car, no it was not totaled. Surprised. Bumber is loose, and marred in a couple of spots. (Saturn).

I just got he video of my D's dance recital. My neices are in it too. I'm watching it right now.

Yesterday was a fun day. H had a teammate come pick him up so he could watch the game he could not play in. He was not happy about it.

He calls me and says the team and their girlfriends are coming for a BBQ. (What the whole team). No, it was a couple team members, their family. Wheewww. That is much better.

It was fun.

Down side., H brings out pictures of November Vegas trip. I asked H a question.

Here it goes.

Me: Who did you go with again? (I knew what he told me)

H: Dave

Me: No, that is not what you told me before

H: Perkins is his nickname

Me: No, you said the apprentice

H: You mean Boyd (or he said boy) Not sure which

Me: Ohhhh

(He said Tom, when he went). BUSTED Add that to the old memory banks for later.

Gotta finish watching video. D is up soon

Oh, with technology, the videos are better. My neice (she is 17 now) She has been attending this dance center since she has been 4. The videos back then, you could hardly see the dancers. This guy, has zooms, spanning, and is inserting boxes, so you are viewing two veiws at the same time.

One girl was so cute in my D's group. Now, for weeks before the recital, she had the background in the dance center so the girls were used to it and did not do what one girl did. Come out on stage and at the beginning, all she did was look at the backdrop. Of course, at age 4, they are always cute.

Hi Sue,

Glad to hear the car was not damaged to bad.
How is your H was he hurt bad?

Sounds like fun the BBQ,not fun the trip down memory lane.

What happened with the check you did not say?

Why did your H go to Vegas without you.Was it suppose to be for work?

I don't know when he went. The date is not readable

H is off of work for two weeks. Maybe more. His neck and back are sore/stiff, the whole bit.

I'm leaving here in a minute to take the car to the bodyshop to schedule an appt. The car is veering to the left. It could have been worse

HI Sue,

Hows life today?

Busy, busy, busy.

Overslept, so trash did not get out. I forgot to do it last night.

Had to get bread and milk, went to the store,

H went to Dr.

Took kids to Grandmas

I went to bodyshop with car

Went to have my CPR certif. renewed. Had to take a class.

Trying to get kids in bed.

Smell something funny, I'm wondering if puppy did you know what behind the computer desk. Desk is heavy, I will have to ask my sisters if htey will come help move it since H cannot

Hi Sue,

I get tired just reading all that you have to do in the day.
Did you stay home from work last night?

H and I had a big blow out.I cant seem to make him understand the way I feel.He says forget what he did move on its over.Thats easier said than done.
I guess I need to accept this is all I will get out of him and just move on even if I am not completly happy with it.I really would like complete healing from this but don't see it happening.
H never likes to do anything that makes him uncomfortable so its always up to me to swallow my pride or push my feelings aside and go on.
I need to leave for work just wanted to see if you were still out there somewhere.

Have a good day I'll check in after work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Sue, everyone.

I notice that all the little things in life don't quit when really bad stuff happens to us. The bills still come in the mail, accidents happen, and the puppy goes behind the desk instead of barking to be let out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sue,
I can imagine you thinking about things. I can imagine your bad days, when you wonder why you are still there, and you think about what will happen when you get things squared around a little better. I believe you trying so long is not really because you couldn't leave, I believe it is the mark of what kind of person you are. You do what you have to do, and when the world caves in on you, you still do what you have to do, and make things work.

I still wish I knew how to help more, but since I'm not very good at it, I'm just sending a little bit of cheer from my world to yours. I know if no one recognizes your effort, you will keep doing the work anyway, but wanted you to know that someone notices.

SS

SS - you are right, I do do what needs to be done, and keep on going. I do have my limits. I know what they are. When I feel comfortable to be able to move on, I will. That will be when I am financially in a position to take care of me and the kids. It is important to me. It has to be this way. I know why. I used to babysit for a woman on welfare. Married young, divorced after 4 kids, barely making it. I swore I would never be in that position.

Ginger -
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I cant seem to make him understand the way I feel.He says forget what he did move on its over. <hr /></blockquote>He is avoiding the situation. You cannot make him understand is he is not willing.

So, you either have to accept it and move on, or not accept it and make decision around that.

The ball is in your court. I understand that you love your H. You want your M to work. It takes to two make it work. Not one. You have to make decisions based upon what you can handle, what you are willing to tolerate and not tolerate.

In time, you will know the answer. Instead of pushing him, use this time for yourself. What does Ginger want for Ginger?

Thanks Sue,

These are all things I know.It is funny last night when we were having our heated arguement he leaned his head back on the sofa,I looked at him and all the sudden I could see the boy I fell in love with not the man he has become,I just stared at him I have not seen that face for a very long time, it was so strange.He looked at me and asked what are you looking at,I said for a minute I just saw the boy who use to love me so much that he would do anything for me and nothing to hurt me.I just started to cry.

Every day I tell myself today I will only think of me not him.I just cant for some reason,I don't know why I don't understand it.
I ask myself all the time with all he has put me through why in the world do I still love him,why does this hurt me so much.This should have been my out.It isn't that way though.

Coming to the reality of what my life and M are is so hard,this is not what I dreamed of.I guess I want the dream so bad that I am trying to make it happen and it is not and I get angry.I know it is probably not so,but when I think of him with her I always picture him doing and saying everything to her that I have always wanted.Maybe I am the one causing my own pain.

Thanks again Sue,I always cherrish your advise,I feel so dumb,I should be the strong one giving you advice not the other way around.

Ginger

Repeat after me.

I am not dumb, I am not dumb, I am not dumb.

Now keep repeating until you believe it.

Or you could say,

I am smart, I am smart, I am smart, I am smart.

I like that one better.

It takes time and practice to put yourself first. For years you have put your own needs on a back burner. Now is the time to practice what is good for Ginger. Evaluate your life. Only you can decide, do you want to stay and make your M work? Do you want to go seek what Ginger wants? (with or without him).

If you decide to stay in the M, can you accept it on his terms? If not, what terms are acceptable to you? Are you ready to spell out your terms? If not, that is okay, will you be ready? Thats okay too.

This is your life, your M, your decision. Only you can decide what matters most, what can you live with. Can you stay with him, and his attitude not take a peice of you with it?

It takes time to look at your life, make decisions on which way to go with it. Rome was not built in a day

Sue,

You are so funny and so right.

I guess Ive been so busy over the last 26yrs.that I never stopped to think what do I want?
My oldest D is so encouraging always telling me how good I am, how smart,she would love to see me go back to school.
My son-in-law always makes me feel good about me,tells my D all the time I hope you look like your mom at 40.

This past year has just really done me in.Sometimes I feel like I can not even think straight let alone make plans.
I know that I am afraid,and have put up a huge wall around me so that I can not get hurt anymore.I don't know if I can let go and just move forward in life.

I sound very mental tonight,I think I really need some sleep about two days worth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hows work?
Hows H?
Whats new on the home front for you Sue?

Homefront - quiet. H sleeps alot. They call it drug induced. Can't fight when one is sleeping. Except H has told me I've hit him in my sleep, so maybe it is possible

It is possible that your H does see how great you are. His self esteem is so low, that he does not want others seeing it in you, so he has to try to keep you in your place. (so to speak)

Kind of reminds me of the time when H and I stopped dating. We still worked together. I lost abotu 30 pounds. Went from a size 12 to 8. H kept telling my I had a fat rear end at a size 8. I'm 5'7". So, how can a size 8 have a fat behind at my height I ask you? H was getting a lot nervous that others might find me attractive. (and they did). When he made comments like that, I just asked, what, worried? Or jeaous? I told him straight out that I know I look good, and he can comment all he wants, it just shows his insecurity.

Thanks again Sue

Is that all I ever say is thanks!!

I have a hard time accepting complements I don't know why.
I have always taken care of myself,I am still the same size as in HS,I take that back I am smaller than in HS.I'm 5'4" 108" size 4 it depends my work pants are a 2.H always complains says I need to put on some weight.I tell him,I have been like this my whole life why should it bother you.Maybe because he has put on weight I don't know.He thinks he looks good and tells me so.I tell him it is sure funny that other men tell me your H is so lucky my W put on so much weight with the kids.Maybe you always want what you do not have.OW was bigger than me,she was even taller than my H.

A couple of young girls I work with are so funny one told me the other day that if she had my body I would not want to know what she would do with it.

I guess maybe it is me my personality I don't look at myself and think wow I look good,as a matter of fact since the A,I really feel unlovely,and wonder if H did not love me why would someone else.I hate not having much self confidence.This is something I know I need to work on.

I am so jealous, you are smaller than when in HS. I wish I was my HS size, it would still be smaller than I am now. That was the size 12 in me.

You need to start seeing yourself for who you really are. Phsycally, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically. You are one amazing woman. If only you could see it.

I don't know how accurate this is, a long time ago, I read that when a spouse has an A, they pick someone who is less attractive than their spouse. Double edge sword that one is. On one hand they found someone physically less desirable, on the other hand, it is an insult.

I hate double edge swords. They hurt no matter what.

Now Ginger, make a plan to do something nice for yourself. How about everyday, you make an effort, even if it is a small one, to treat Ginger to something nice, whether it be lunch out with the girls from work, or a compliment to yourself about what ever about yourself. Recognize your accomplishments and pat yourself on the back. (Someone has to). I cannot think of any more at this time. I think you follow me.

FBOW, you can do this too. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done. There is nothing wrong with givng ourselves Kudos.

We are taught as a society to not do this. It is wrong. Why is it wrong? As long as we don't overinflate our egos. It helps to recognize self worth and create a positive self image within ourselves. (it worked for me) (along with a strong sense of stubborness)

Sue

Do not be jelous I did not tell you how I have to cover my gray(caused by teenagers I'm sure)and the lines I am getting I'm sure you dont have these problems.

The double edge sword,I have never seen OW H said she reminded him of me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I think he ment her personality.
Now I don't look like this but H said OW looked like "Fergie" when I talked to OW she said everyone tells her that.
Fergie is ok I don't find her drop dead gorgeous.

I guess I could compete with that.OW did say that my H told her that he had a beautiful wife.

Most women have some gray hair by the time they are 40. Can we say Clairol? I'm looking at the one, have not boughten it yet, by Loreal, it has the basic color and you put in the highlights where you want them. Is is a little spendy for home hair coloring. I know I will eventually try it.

I must own every type made by man or woman to help with the wrinkle area. I'm told i look in my 30's. I hope they are being sincere and not polite.

So, you are not alone in the aging category.

OW paid you a compliment? She was probably wondering why H was stepping out of M. Then again, did you see Star*'s pic? If fidelity was based upon looks alone, there are quite a few of MB'er who would not be here.

So true Sue,
I don't think it really has to do with looks.
Yes I saw her picture she is very cute.
As for OW,I hate to say it but she was really pretty nice to me,she told me how sorry she was it did not really help.

People tell me the same they think I'm about 35 but they know I have a kid in his 20's so they wonder.A couple of weeks ago some girls at work called me over and asked do you mind if we ask you how old you are? They were so funny.I think alot of it is my size,I think that makes me look a lot younger.

Like I told you before,I have got to stop crying myself to sleep because it washes away my wrinkle cream and then I have to get up and put it on all over again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Personally I think crying is good for the soul. A way of cleansing ourselves.

I suppose I should explain (I'm not advocating crying everday)

After you have a good cry, you feel sort of tired, and exhausted, so no you have to sleep. Crying is a way of letting go of stress. Stress in excess is not a good thing

Hi Sue,

Well you will be glad to hear that yesterday I was good did not cause any waves with H and it was a better day.

Today I took everyones advise and just said I am not going to dwell on what he did but on what I need to do to become happy.

All was going pretty well at work until this girl she works security decides to come and help me we are getting ready for inventory.
She starts to talk about her x-BF and then tells me how his mom cought his dad cheating and she filed for divorce.I said a few things who knows what and then she says to me "Don't tell me you would stay with your H if he cheated on you,if you do I'm going to slap you."
Well this is one reason I keep personal buisness personal,but it is also things like this that make it so hard to forget.
I know in my heart I am a better person for wanting to forgive and work on my M.but it is still hard when you hear this stuff day after day and pretend it has never happened to you.

How is your day going?

And I agree crying cleanses the soul.
But it still washes off your face cream!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Cry first, then face cream <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You know what a good response to the security person would have been. In these situations, everyone has their own reasons for staying or leaving a M. For each person their reasons are usually valid. No one is in a position to judge or critisize. Unless you have walked in their shoes, you do not understand.

(Of course I can come up with this. I was not in your shoes when it was said) I am so smart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See how easy that was to say I am smart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So, what has Ginger done for Ginger today? Or was that the good thing, not dwelling on things? If so, congratulations. Helped to make a good day for you.

Sue you are so smart that is one reason I keep hanging out on your thread,I'm letting it rub off on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well the girl, she is not worth wasting your breath on,young doesn't really know what life is all about,not my type of person.
It was just the feeling inside of me that bothered me,does that make any sense.Knowing that he cheated,pretending that he hasn't.She would be the last person I would tell,that info would go through town faster than a wild fire.

I think that was it,telling myself I can be happy even with all that has happened,I looked in the mirror more than once and said,I am ok.I did this instead of saying I am getting old who would want me.I have this fear that I would be alone forever if H left,I think it is because he is all I know.

Well, companionship is nice. But alone is not bad sometimes. I am my own best company if I say so myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay, honestly, I don't want to be alone, but if my choice is to live with an H who will not give up OW, I will choose alone. You know why? I deserve better, that is why. (This is why if I go to Plan B, it will be a short one, this whole thing has stretched my patience to a whole new level. Normally, I am not patient, I want action and I want it now.)

Growing up, I had this friend, when we were in 4th grade her mom and dad divorced. When she was in Jr. High, her mom remarried. She divorced. Both husbands had drinking problems and infideltiy problems. She has been alone ever since and loving it. She does what she wants when she wants. She joined groups and stuff. One of the groups is nationally affiliated. So when members are travelling, they can still participate. She met a millionare, they dated a few times. He did not drink, was widowed, and says he was faithful to his wife. She was enjoying her freedom so much she declined his marraige proposal. I don't know if she loved him or not. So, being alone is what you make of it.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying divorce your H. I'm just trying show you that being alone does not have to be what you envision it to be. It is what you make it.

You and you alone can decide what is important to you, what you can live with and tolerate.

OK here is the funny part.

Before the A,when H would treat me like dirt,I would dream of life alone.I would think I will stick this out until youngest graduate HS then if things are not better I will leave.I never thought about having someone in my life other than the kids and grandkids.

I don't know what changed this thinking,if it was the reality that he could just leave and not look back or the thought of him finding someone with what seemed to me like no problem I don't know.I do know that after d-day I began to relize that I still loved my H and really always have and that is why I always put up with so much.I also know that I was angry that he did that to me after all he has put me through.If anyone should have cheated it should have been me.The A has made me feel unloveable,ugly and old.

He use to tease when I turn 40 he was going to trade me in.That is how I felt like he found someone that was everything I was not.

I believe these feelings are what I am having the hardest time dealing with,and why it is hard for me to move forward.
His A destroyed ME who I thought I was,I never thought I could hurt like this and I do and I don't like that.I feel weak.I do not like that.I think some of my anger is at myself for feeling these things,and knowing that I am not any of these things.

Normally I am the strong one with the encouraging word,the one with a smile no matter what is happening I do not like what all of this has made me become.It has made me loose my faith in M,in love,and in trusting people.

It would be very hard but I know I could be alone.

I don't know who I think I am kidding.

I was going over the bank statement (I check it weekly online). And I saw a debit for Steak n Ale. The amount was the amount for two. Except he is pretty cheap with her. When we go out, our bill is at least double. The date is a week ago. (I know, it could have been anybody, lets face it, we know who.)

Hi Sue,

This is not what I expected to read when I saw you online.

Can you think of what he was doing that day?
When does he go while you are at work?

The only time he could do it is when I am at work.

I'm tired of his sneaking around.

Boards are paid for, All that is left to do is apply for jobs and study more for the test and schedule the test.

Sorry Sue

But I don't blame you.What does he do with the kids?

So I take it you found the check or got a new one.
Do you know when you might schedule the test?

Any idea of where you might work?

Why are some men so dumb and selfish.And why did we find them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

There are very few smart men, so we are stuck with what is left.

No, we did not find the check. They sent a new one.

I have to wait for a letter before I can schedule.

What is the letter for?

Your right about the men.Would'nt it be great if they were as smart as us and as wonderful,could you imagine how great that would be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Notice I said how smart!!!!!!!

I noticed, now you got the picture. The mistake women made was letting men think they could think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (I wonder what SS will say to this)(giggling)

The letter tells me I can call the testing center and schedule a time. They send that after my stuff has been processed and my money is good.

So, I sit and wait and study

Oh, asked H about transaction. He says he had dinner by himself and a few drinks. My response was this is more around the price of two meals. His response "I had a big steak". Yeah, sure. And I have a bridge to sell if anyone believes that one.

I'm not sure who needs the lobotomy more, me or him. I know I could benefit from one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Does anyone know what would be a good cake for a diabetic? For his birthday. I want to ring his neck, not put him in a diabetic coma

Hi Sue,

I just got up I was so tired that I fell asleep on the sofa then just got up went to bed and slept in till a little after 7 this morning,very unusual for me I guess the past month just cought up with me.

Lets see,the dinner thing.First why would he go to a place like that alone.He is just like my H says things that sound so stupid even the dog would not believe it.
With my H it is always about how much he has drank,he tells me things like he gave a couple of beers to some guy out side.I think he still has imaginary friends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for the cake I am not sure but I think you can pick up an already made pie just for diabetics. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> That might work.
My H was diagnosed with diabetes last Nov.(he told OW before me I found out listening to him talk on the phone)any way I think sometimes that is his problem he is in a diabetic coma!!!!!!

I hope you get your letter soon.Glad to hear all turned out with the check.
Did H call the people?Is that how you recieved a new check?

Have a good day.

Oh by the way where is our good friend SS?

Hi Sue,

Here's a cake recipe I found. Most of the diabetic desserts are pies and stuff. I did find a really nice strawberry shortcake though. But if you want a real cake (and I haven't tasted it):

Cocoa Cake
Yield: 16 servings
1/2 c Cocoa;

1/2 ts Cream of tartar;
1/2 c Boiling water;
1/3 c Sugar;
3/4 c (1 1/2 sticks) margarine @ Room temperature
2 1/2 c Cake flour;
1 ts Baking soda;
Liquid sugar substitute equal To 1/2 cup sugar
2 ts Baking powder;
To 1/2 cup sugar;
1/4 ts Salt;
2 ts Vinilla;
1/2 ts Cinnamon;
3 Large egg whites;@ rm temp;
1 c Cool water;
Mix together cocoa and boiling water to blend and set aside to cool to room temperature. Cream margarine at medium speed until light and fluffy. Add sweetener and vanilla to creamed mixture, along with cooled cocoa mixture. Mix at medium speed until well blended. Beat egg whites at medium speed until foamy. Add cream of tartar and beat at high speed, gradually adding sugar, to form a meringue. Set aside for alter use. Stir together flour, soda, baking powder, salt and cinnamon to blend well. Add 1 cup water to creamed mixture along with flour mixture. Beat at medium speed for 1-2 minutes or until well blended. Stir batter carefully into pans that have been greased with margarine and lined on the bottom with wax paper. Bake @ 350 degrees F. for 30-35 minutes, on until a cake tester comes out clean from the center of the cake and the cake pulls away from the sides of the pan. Turn cake out onto a cake cooler, remove the paper, and cool to room temperature. Put diabetic jelly between the cake layers and frost at the last minute with Fluffy Frosting. Cut cake into 16 equal servings.

Food Exchange per serving: 1 1/2 BREAD EXCHANGE + 2 FAT EXCHANGE; CAL: 170; CHO: 20gm; PRO: 3gm; FAT: 9gm LOW-SODIUM DIET: Omit salt. Use salt-free margarine and low-sodium baking powder.

Sue said:
There are very few smart men, so we are stuck with what is left.

So true, however my W says even though I am slow, she believes I CAN learn in time. So someday I hope to be smart.

Ginger said:
Your right about the men. Wouldn't it be great if they were as smart as us and as wonderful, could you imagine how great that would be.

Never happen, and I will even explain later.

Sue said:
I noticed, now you got the picture. The mistake women made was letting men think they could think (I wonder what SS will say to this) (giggling)

I thought about going along with the joke, but I think I will actually address the underlying reasons for your comments.
No joke.
Since this is one of the few things I have really done well with after learning it on MB, I want to talk about it a little bit.

Women have jokes about how men don't get it, and men have jokes about how women don't get it. The thing is, men and women are different and IN GENERAL, THEY ARE GOOD AT DIFFERENT THINGS. Perhaps it would be better to say they do things differently.

If we take the population as a whole, it applies to everyone - to an extent. Almost anyone can learn to play the piano. Some people have a ...........gift - for lack of a better word. Have you noticed it? It still takes work, because your hands don't fly over the keys without training, but it applies to sports, music, math, science, and everything. Some people are better at some things, some at other things.

The jokes about men and women THINKING come from those differences. We understand that someone can be really good at something - like Tiger Woods at golf, and that others are not going to be able to perform at that same level, but when it comes to differences between men and women we often are not willing to accept the difference. We tease each other at best, and hold things against each other in the middle ( with things like " I am sure if they really cared, they would help me out with this.") and at the worst we D because we know they are never going to get it.

So, you are right, compared to you in many cases, men can't think. I can't multitask worth a darn, but I can concentrate on something and stick with it like glue until it is done. I could go on and on about the differences, but you already know what I am talking about. One of the things that got me started here was those very differences. I was frustrated that my W couldn't seem to understand a point I was trying to make and I expressed my frustration out loud in our differences. She winked at me and said: " I thought you liked those differences." I had to admit I did, and it got me to thinking about it in more detail.

We can use them to compliment each other, or to have something to argue about. To use them to compliment each other, we have to understand, at least I have to. I have seen couples at the end of their lives, married for over 50 years that never studied relationships but they seem to understand and make use of each others strengths, and leave the weaknesses alone. I am not sure why I could not do it without a lot of study, but probably it is because I am so dumb. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Our natural abilities and training can make it worse. We understand something really well, and we won't leave our spouse alone about us knowing, and them not knowing. When they make a mistake we rub it in instead of being kind and understanding. See, I am explaining something that many more women understand than men, but I had to learn it the hard way, by experience. I even went to school to learn it - the school of hard knocks.

Now when my W doesn't get something, and she apologizes for having to ask me for help, I say:
"That's why we make such a great team, because we can help the other with our strengths and do a much better job together than either one could do alone."
I really mean it too, because even though I am not very smart, I can learn SOME things.

All it took was a change in attitude on my part to make a perceived weakness into a great strength in our marriage. My W had the "help each other " attitude all our married life, so you are correct in saying that many men never get it. I was one of them for years. I have tried to explain it to some family members and I get blank stares, and dumb looks - like something is wrong with me. Maybe something is wrong with me, but my W loves it, and it is reflected back in the way she treats me.

I like being in love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I usually post at work ( self employed) and I was gone yesterday to help with a community event.

Well, well, that was probably more than you wanted from a joke. I did laugh when I read your comments, but I wanted to say something positive about those differences in us that often has us thinking the other will never get it. I am still learning, and I hope I will "get" a lot more things over the years. I don't worry much about the ones she or I don't get yet, because we make up for the other person if we need to, and we love to do it

All this talk about MB 2x4's has me thinking President Teddy Roosevelt had it right all those years ago when his policy was to "walk softly but carry a big stick." Maybe if you beat your H's more, they would listen better. One never knows until one tries. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

SS

[ July 25, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS

I have missed you.And after what I just read,I think I would put you in the catagory of one of the few smart men <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My H never thinks anything I say is right.We just had this discussion on his lunch break(maybe this is one reason I have a selfesteem problem <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )Anyway we were talking of taking a trip in Sept.He said maybe Vegas,during the week the rooms are less expensive he says about 25$ a night.
I say not anymore they are at least 50$ a night if not more.He told me I was wrong.
He comes home from work on his lunch and tells me some customers told him of a really nice place to stay just out side of Vegas where the rooms are about 30$ less a night.
He tells me how they told him in Vegas during the week the minum room is about 60$.Now didn't I just say that the night before?????????????

Right now my H still does not get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Star* - thanks for the recipe, I will give it a try.

SS- I could not resist the joke. Honestly, I do not believe all men are dumb.

I like how you addressed it.

Ginger - good to see you.

Today is not bad. As usual, busy. Tomorrow is H's birthday, we are going to have a BBQ. His suggestion.

Here is a selfish prayer, we are trying to refinance. We close on Tuesday, I am praying nothing goes wrong. Last May, it fell through, near the end. This will help financially. On one hand, it is not great, on the other, it will help. Interest is not too bad. Not as good as I was hoping for. It will help us repair our credit. I trust this loan officer. The last, one, I had my concerns.

I have to get up and go grocery shopping tomorrow, ran out of time today. Finish cleaning the house, maybe a movie. Then the BBQ. Lets not forget the cake.

Monday we take the car to the bodyshop. Should have it back by friday.

Next week, I expect things to settle down. I decided that on Sunday, after church (if I dont' oversleep, been doing that lately) I will apply for jobs online. Get that over with.

Wish me luck.

Hi Sue,

Good luck!!!

I have to work all weekend.

Sounds like you have a very busy day tomorrow,try and rest just a little ok.

I'm thinking of buying myself some wine coolers and keeping them to myself. (the problem with that is, one puts me to sleep, I cannot stay awake long enough to get drunk). Okay, lets face it, all alcohol has that effect on me. I'm a lightweight and proud of it.

I am not a drinker myself,that was something H said he wished for,that I would have a drink with him once in a while.
I said ok, so he would make me these frozen mixed drinks in the blender they were pretty good I must say, but I would drink one and pass out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
He said he did not understand he could not even taste the alcohol in them.He could drink the whole blender full and not even get a buzz.

Well,

Weekend was good and busy. Still busy.

We have so much leftover food and beer and pop we could do this again.

I bought a couple of cases of beer. H didn't know it, so his friend went out and brought a couple cases (so now that is 4 cases of beer for about 10 people and 6 were children. (A few did not come yet). Anyway, another couple came and they brought a couple of cases of beer. So, now we are up to 6 cases of beer and two more people. Two more people show up (thankfully they did not bring beer, only themselves). No body got drunk and we have got sooooo much left over beer, it should last the summer. (I tried to get them to take some home with them. They wouldn't.

At least everyone had a good time. (We have tons of left over pop too, but that will go quickly in my house.) The beer, will last a while. We don't drink alot. I sometimes use it as a hair rinse, or in my chili.

H has been very nice to me lately. Calling my hon, honey, that sort of stuff. He wanted me to go with him to a farwell dinner at the legion. We could not get a sitter, so I told him to go. He really should show up. He went for the dinner, and came home.

I also found out, that one of the guys that was at our house plays on the team that I'm not allowed at. I guess only 1 guy on the team, his girlfriend goes. The girlfriend of one of the guys at the party, told me that she goes once in a great while. As a general rule, no wives or girlfriends go. But, she will if she wants to. She suggested we go together sometime. I work.

I'm thinking I am wrong about the OW being there. I dont' think it would be tolerated by this guy or his girlfriend.

I like this bunch of people H has been hanging with. Very family orientated people.

Hi Sue,

Glad you had a "better" weekend. It's about time.

SS- I could not resist the joke. Honestly, I do not believe all men are dumb.

I know, Just me - I know what you are getting at.

Hey, knock it off, I was just kidding. How did you do that where you hit someone through the monitor? I can think of someone I would like to try that on.

You know what?
I hope you finish your test, and get your good job on one of these nice weekends. I think if you are in a good mood, you just may be able to pull this whole thing off.

I had some more to say about the dumb husband thing, but in all the excitment I forgot what it was. My wife's husband sure was dumb for a long time. Sometimes I really wonder about him.

Ginger, is that you?

SS

[ July 28, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Yes its ME.You knew I would be hear could not wait to hear about your weekend Sue.

I'm glad I am not your nieghbor or I probably would not be able to find my H and you know where he would be!Thats right at Sue's helping her get rid of all that left over beer.I know he would not want it to go to waist :

SS I hope my H decides to join the "I'm not dumb anymore,I finally get it"group of men real soon.

Sue glad to hear your H is treating you better it makes life so much nicer.

Ginger,

I'm glad you are not my neighbor too. Then you would be mad at me because your H would have been on my deck helping make sure no beer went to waste.

I think I will try to talk the guys into coming and getting some of it to take to the field. After all, they contributed to the supply.

I really hope the A is over or ending.

H also commented, that after seeing one of the guys and his longterm girlfriend, he said, boy, you are not so bad after all.

If she does not want him to go out, he does not go out. If she does not like something he said or did, she says so, right in front of everyone.

SS, as always, you are very supportive,

So, how about a Road Trip in a couple of weeks to good ole WI. I promise, no cheese wedge hats. I cannot say the same for Cerri. After all, it is her place. She may insist that all guest wear them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Sue I hope he has finally seen the light.That a wonderful wife and three great kids is the life a lot of men just dream of.

I feel a little jealous and left out that I am so far away and can not join in on the road trip.It sounds like alot of fun.If you have to wear a hat maybe you could take a picture and send it to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ginger,
I am only a couple of hours out of Las Vegas NV. So, I will probably not be going either. It would be quite a road trip for you or I.

Actually, my Aug is full already. I have a trade show the week of the bonfire and I will be attending it that Saturday. Oh well, it would be nice to meet so many nice people.

Sue, I was thinking a little bit about you inviting your H. Something along these lines:
We have been invited to a party hosted by friends of mine from Marriage builders. They want to talk to you about your association with ( insert name of OW) and what it means to our marriage. I am kind of interrested in seeing what you have to say myself, would you like to go with me?

Well, I better go before I wear out my welome.

SS

Oh no, one more thing. I saw on GQ where someone was leaving and I felt sad that I had never told her how highly I thought of her before she felt it time to go. I want you gals to know that I feel it an honor to know both of you. Thanks for putting up with me. I continue to pray for both of you, and that you might enjoy success in your marriages. Thanks again -

SS
A couple hours out of Vegas,which direction?
I am only about 4/12 from Vegas.I say we all plan a Vegas trip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Sue hows life today?

oops I did not mean to type 4/12 I ment 4 1/2hrs but I'm sure you all figured that one out.

Ginger,
I'm the other direction from you.

We could probably get a lot of takers for Vegas, but it's not my favorite place. I am a small town boy, and the bonfire fits my lifestyle pretty well.

I don't know if I could handle living where you live.

SS

How do you know where I live?

And I am not much for Vegas myself but I would go.

OK Sue,
Here's yours for today. I have no idea where it came from or who wrote it, my W send it to me without comment. I AM NOT infering in anyway that you are like a bear. I simply post it for your enjoyment. I told my W I was going to, and she laughed.

Gonna BE A BEAR

In this life i'm a woman. In my next life, I'd like to come back as a bear. When you're a bear, you get to hibernate You do nothing but sleep for six months. I could deal with that.

Before you hibernate, Your supposed to eat yourself stupid. I could deal with that too.

When you're a girl bear, you birth your children (who are the size of walnuts) while you're sleeping and wake to partially grown, cute cuddly cubs. I could definitely deal with that.

If you're momma bear, everone knows you mean business. You swat anyone who bothers your cubs. If Your cubs get out of line, you swat them too. I could deal with that.

If you're a bear, your mate EXPECTS you to wake up growling. He EXPECTS that you will have hairy legs and excess body fat.
Yup, gonna be a bear!

Cheers,

SS

I agree, I'm gonna be a bear. I didn't know they had it so good. Works for me.

Things are still going pretty good. H has been supportive with the kids, where in the past, he thougth I was too hard on them.

Vegas is okay. I can do Vegas about once every 5 years or more. I've been there a total of two times. The spa was nice. But I don't have to go to Vegas to go to a spa.

Now, a fun place is Branson MO, or Lake of the Ozarks. I had a blast at both of those places.

I'll be back when I get a moment. Real busy right now.

I could be a bear I hate shaving!!!!!!
and the face wax what a pain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Any way after all Ive been through with H A.I think I deserve a vacation.After all he took one right!And boy was it a vacation.

You guys name the place and time I'll work out the other details LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H has been a little snoopy lately.I don't know what to make of it.He never use to seem to care what I was doing but I have cought him a couple of times coming on here to see what I have writen or maybe it is to see who I am writing to.Maybe he is just a little nervous what do you think?

I'd say he is worried. Especially if he has not not that in the past.

Worried what do you mean like that I might find myself an online lover like he did?

No, I don't mean that you would find an online lover. However, it is food for thought. Not that you would do that, but he might be concerned you might. What's good for the goose is good for the gander thought process. I work with a girl who told me that she dated a man who was cheating on her. He always accused her of looking around. She found out he was cheating and dumped him like a hot potato in front of all his friends and his other girlfriend. (She said she heard that the other girlfriend dumped him right after she walked out the door)

Does he know you post here? If so, he might be worried about what you say.

Yes he knows and he knows for sure I post on your thread,I dont think he really knows how it all works.
Tonight I was replying to someone and he was looking over my shoulder I did not care,I made sure I wrote something I was really feeling and wanted him to know,he did not stick around long.

Other than your thread I don't think he would know where to look.I really don't care he could read anything I write.
I even told him to start his own thread,I said tell them you are my H and see what they have to say to you.Well you know what he thought of that idea!

Of course he does not like that idea. He is sure that everyone will hate him.

What he does not realize is, that there is the chance he will get a few bad replies. I think he will get more good replies than bad replies on how to help the M and how important it is to resolve the issues and feeling around an A, and that it is important for you to work through the negative feelings you are experiencing.

There are some people in this world who are TOTAL CONFLICT AVOIDERS. They do not have a clue how destructive that can be.

Hi Sue,
Did not have a chance to get back on last night I am off today thought I would respond early before I get to busy.

Last night was not a real good night.We had some what of a fight.I am tired of fighting.You know he is the type don't talk about it,it will all go away.I feel different I have some real feelings I am dealing with and would like his help in working through them.

He asked me why we always end up fighting,I told him it is because he will not do what he is suppose to do to heal the marriage so I end up angry,hurt,and therefore I blow up at him.I told him he did a good job a for about 2mo.but like everything he quit because it was hard work.I told him it can not be one sided anymore it has been that way far too long.If he would put as much energy into us as he does his other interest we could have an amazing M.I just don't think he understands this.I don't know what to do to make him understand this.

I kind of wish he would start a thread here and get some advice on what to do to help me and our M.But like councling I think he just does not want to face the fact that he would really have to change some things about himself and do some things that would feel uncomfortable to him so he will not do it.

I don't know maybe I am wrong maybe I should just forget everything as much as I can and go on like everything is fine then he would be happy I'm sure and the fights would stop.I know I could do that I have done it in the past but what bothers me is once again I feel like what I feel and how I hurt is not important,only his happiness.

Whoah...face wax <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I put that stuff once...ONCE on my leg. After I ripped off the first strip I was screaming in pain. Imagine Mel Gibson in "What women want". It wasn't funny...and I have defiitely learned from that experience. Hot wax and on my skin? No way!

Hi Sue: looks like you gals are doin' better here. I've been hanging out in the recovery forum recently. How's the knee? ...and the job?

Can you give me an update?

Hugs

Dear gingersnap,
To let h have his way and for you to accept that would be the most foolish thing you could do. Like your not important and the cheater is. The world does not revolve around him. Weren't you ok before you ever knew him? I've been where your at and there is life ahead I promise. Your focus is everything and will determine whether you celebrate tomorrow or are depressed. You need to start to value yourself more and then you won't let yourself be such a sucker for his baloney. You are a good person and no one is more valuble than you. We were all created equal and that includes you. Sure you made some mistakes, who hasn't. And maybe you need to change a few things, but don't put him above yourself. You will only get his respect when you have your respect. Get tough, just don't loose your femininity. That is a gift that a real man knows the value of.
Behind you all the way
singleguy

Ginger - Singleguy really said it. I started getting concerned when you were talking about denying your own feelings and self for your H. Dont' ever do that. Doing that, means you give up on who you are. Don't lose your identity.

Your H's inability to face things, is his problem, not yours. You cannot make him change. Only he can do that. It would be nice if we could change our WS to be what we want.

How happy were you putting him above yourself? There is a difference between eliminating LB's and denying ourselves. Sometimes we have to be a little selfish. (When I went back to school, we had some doozy of fights. I never consulted him. I just did it. If I asked him, I knew I never would go back and this was too important to me. I was willing to risk my marriage over it.)

IP - good to hear from you again. I've peaked in on you over in Recovery. I didn't have much to offer. I'm glad things are looking good for you. (Or at least the last one I read was very promising and bright).

The knee is coming along. It is still weak. I am no longer walking with a limp, and I can predict the weather, not with accuracy.

I'm working on getting the strength back. Stair are a challenge right now.

Waiting for letter to come that says I can schedule my boards.

Wrote my resume, and started applying for jobs. If I have to, I will take a weekend job and keep my current one, until I get a full time job.

Marriage is still at stand still for the moment. Lately it has been good. I'm expecing any day now to find something that will set me back. Thats the way it goes.

H has some new friends. I like these guys. Honestly, I think if they knew, they would tell H how wrong he is. So far, what I've seen in this group, is that they value relationships and marriage. I hope they have a positive influence on H.

HI Sue

Glad to see things are still going good for you and H.
You sound like me now waiting for the time bomb.Try not to do that ok.

Not a good day today,I was so worn out I took a 3hr nap not like me to much stress I think.

S had a fender bender in my car,H exploded it was a mess,but first thing out of H mouth is,I cant take this any more I am going to leave.He always says that when things get stressful.I told him you are going to leave me over something someone else did.He says yes because he cant take the stress anymore,I say what about all the stress I live with daily.

I finally told him if he has been looking for an excuse to leave just leave quit trying to blame it on everyone else.H says he does not want to leave he is just upset.

H gives S the whole spill on every action has a reaction and you have to live with what happens and face the consequene. I want to take a bat and hit him over the head and see if he has any brains in there.
Why does every one else have to deal with what happens if they make a wrong choice but he does not want to deal with what is happening because of his wrong choice.

I do believe that old joke is true for my H,when God was passing out brains he thought they said trains and said give me a big steel one!!!!!!!!!

Hey Sue - didn't want to interject, but just wanted to check in and say I am glad that things are going well right now for you and your H. Keep it up!

LIT, stop in anytime.

At last look, it looked like you and MJR are getting better. I will look in again when I get a moment. It all takes time. I have my bad moments once in a while still.

Today I went and spent $$. Clothes for kids, (my kids think I pick the coolest stuff) school supplies, even splurged on me and bought a couple of pairs of jeans and a new shirt.

Bought a few extra school stuff to donate to my kids school. (I do it every year).

Ginger, how old is your S who got into the accident?

Did your H yelling at him change a thing?

My H felt sorry for the kid who hit him. He said he could hear the kids dad yelling at him through the cell phone. Accidents happen, that is why they call them accidents. Unfortunately, I've had my share of them. Not lately, knock on wood.

My S is 17.
My H was pretty upset.I tried to point out the good in the situation,he did not hit another car it was a pole,he did not hit a person so on and so forth but H was still hot him and S got in a bit of a disagreement.
Thats when H gets real mad and tells me he cant take it anymore and he is going to walk out on this family he is sick of it all.
He does that every time he gets real stressed out I don't think it is fair for him to tell me that.After all I have not walked out on him with all he has put me through.

I will be going out of town this weekend alone.First time since d-day.I am a little nervous.I probably would be ok but after his comments last night it would be the perfect time to look up OW and see how she is doing.

A shopping trip sounds fun.Did you take the kids with you?Its fun when they are little.Not as much when they get older.But when your D becomes and adult now that is a fun shopping day.Me and my oldest D have a great time shopping all day.

Is H back at work yet?
Hows everything with him?

One of my sons went with me. I do not take them all with at the same time. I've done that before, I end up being the mom who you can hear all around the store scolding kids who think the store is a playground.

H is not back to work. It will be a while I think.

Ginger, I have a 17 year old son too! Sometime we'll have to compare notes. His dad gets after him often, but they seem to get along most of the time, and even give each other hugs sometimes. I can live with that.

Sue, I get the feeling lately that it's about time to prompt you again. I don't know, I am still thinking about it. After the way you have been talking lately I half expect you to come back and report:

I finally confronted my H. I said, "Hey Baby, I'm more women than any man can handle anyway, you don't need that other chick any more." and he said, " You know, you are right, what was I thinking, lets fix this."

Yeah, go ahead and laugh. I slave away coming up with this stuff, and you crack up when you read it. Humph.

Anyway, I am thinking about it but I am too tired to do it now. Shall I leave you alone?

I'll think about it tomorrow when I am more fresh.

SS

You don't have to leave me alone about it

And, yes, I laugh at what you come up with. It is comical and gets the point across.

I'm tired right now. Thougth I'd look in on this

Sue, how are you doing? When do you take the boards? My daughter is 19, son just turned 18 and the little guy just made 6.

I still don't know how you did school, work, and family like you did. Tired? I'm amazed you're not dead. But you seem to be full of life and ideas and help even now.

I don't have time before I leave to say much. I am taking a break for this, but better go help Wife get the house shut down tonight. We usually read from the bible a little bit in the evening, and It's past time to start.

You know the hard parts are just delayed. I know you think about them still. I am glad you are finding good to help you right now, because you will need it. I think you ought to attend that bonfire if you can. Tell H something, anything, but go. You need it. I have a lot of faith in you, so keep up the good work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

See you later.

SS

Hello Sue and SS

I'm home!!

SS:I don't know if you really want to compare notes on 17yr olds.My S has put me and H thru h*** and back.That is one reason our M had so much stress and pressure we were both worn out and not taking care of each other instead we were blaming each other like most people do and thats when the A happened.So there I went back to h*** and now I am trying to find my way back.

Sue how is life today?H still treating you pretty good?

Life, well, it is still busy.

For a while there I was doing what I usually do, and trying to cram too much into a day. Well, it got to me. My body said WHOAAA LADY, I need a break. It pretty much shut down on me.

H and I were supposed to go out on Saturday. I was too tired. I spend most of the weekend sleeping. I had no energy for anything. All I wanted to do was sleep. I figured out on Sunday Iwas stressing out over trying to study for boards, do home repairs on the house, so, I was doing a little bit of each every day and really accomplishing nothing. So, yesterday, I decied to alternate, one day, I study, the next is home stuff, then study, home stuff. This way, I am getting stuff done, without trying to get it all done in a day. After I decided this was my new plan, I had a good nights sleep, and woke up refreshed. I got alot done today instead of a little of alot of stuff.

So, every other day my house will be messy. I can live with that.

H has been good lately. He has been nice to me, offered to do what he could to help with the housework. It is hard for him to do stuff right now. He is in alot of pain. Yesterday, we took the kids to IHOP, and I could tell he was suffering. He was trying to get through it. I told him we didnt' have to go. He said, no, we promised the kids.

I plan to go to the Bonfire, with or without him. One of my three kids is unsure if he wants to go. He and H may stay home together.

H may not want to go just because it is hard for him to do stuff. I'm sure he is thinging that he will not be comfortable, and will not feel like socializing.

I know busy,my life use to be busy busy busy today it is alot more calm but alot more stress.I can handle busy the stress is getting to me.

The bon fire sounds like fun.Wish I could go and meet some of the neat people here.

My weekend was good for me.I tried real hard to focus on me.I relize that I am in a deeper depression than I thought.My D asked me what was wrong we were at the mall and nothing seemed to interest me and she noticed.We use to have power trips to the mall,we were the power shoppers these days it just is not fun.I have got to learn how to get the joy back in my life.
I did not call H,I decided if he wanted to call me and talk he could other wise I would just leave it at that.He did call a couple of times.

My sons kids were so excited that I spent the night at thier house I told my S I am going to try and come once a month if I can he said that would be great they had a good time.

Hi Sue,
haven't posted much cause not much change, I'm doing better with more AntiD, I have a whole year of options.
Now really trying to detach, I don't care anymore much about a protective wall. I need it. My H does not get my feelings of lost trust and betrayal. I love him so his coldness hurts.
Will post more in a few days. Hope you life goes OK.
FBOW

Star*, FBOW, Ginger, SS and all,

I think I know why I have not heard back about my boards. When i first registered, I asked for special accomadations because of my knee surgery. I needed a Drs notice. Since I did not have the $$, I thougth I'd wait to see how I recovered. I registered with the testing facility, who has to coordiate with the State, which says I am eligible to take the test.

I think the hold up is because they are waiting for me to send the Drs notice that I need these accommadations. I contacted the Board, and to rescind, because I no longer need the accommadations I have to send that in writing. And it sounded like that was holding things up. So, I mailed my letter today. So, hopefully, I should hear in a week or two that I can schedule the test.

Thanks everyone for sharing ages of kids.

Star, you have an age gap between youngest and oldest. Almost like having an only child.

As much as I love all three, somedays, one is easier. And since I cannot pick and choose, I will keep all of them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well do you think you are ready when you get the reply?

I think you will do fine.

My sister said the way the test worked in our state was that you took it on computer and after awhile it shut off.
It could be because you had missed to many and would have to try again in a few months or that you got enough answers right and you passed.
Some of the people in her class took the boards before her,they told her they were there for a couple of hours before the computer shut down.She said when she took it she was only there about 1 1/2 hrs and the computer shut off.
She said she became a little nervous at that point because others said it took much longer to take the test.Well it shut down so soon because she had done so well on the test and passed.
She has been an RN for 2yrs now.Everyone tells me what a great nurse she is.I am very proud of her.

Thats how it was described to us. I know one classmate had 75 questions, another had 76 and another had 100 when it shut off.

I heard that 3 so far failed. I dont' feel ready. I hope to fee ready by the time I take the test.

The worst I'm looking at is failing and I can take it again. Which means more studying. I just get so nervous that sometimes I cannot think.

We were told they changed the format a little. Now they have fill in the blanks and questions on medication calculations, which I do okay on, except when I am stressed.

I am not a test taker.I always get very nervous and forget all that I know.

If you could make it through school and finals I am sure you can make it through this.

I know my sister was nervous but she did great.
She is already doing a house supervisor position.
I don't know how well she likes it but I think she took it because it ment a pay raise.She is a single parent so she needed the raise.

Hi Sue

Just checking in for the day.
And by the way you are so kind.
Thought I would tell you that just incase you did not already know it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tell that to my H, some days he thinks I am not nice. I told him, it all depends upon who I am dealing with. I can be nice and I can be less than nice.

Today was another busy day. Didn't get done what I wanted, but I got alot done.

I did nothing but go to work today.

H and I had a big blow out again last night he is having a real hard time dealing with the added stress of having a teen back in the home.He takes it out on me.He says very mean hurtful things.

So I only got about 3hrs of sleep last night same with the night before.
I had a nice evening planned.Thought we could BBQ some burgers and watch a movie together spend some time cuddling on the sofa and then see where that lead too.Did not happen.

so today I am exhausted and on top of that I have an infection in my little finger I don't know how I got it but it really hurts.

And I am under alot of pressure at work right now for inventory it is my first and all eyes are on me.Last year I was not the manager and the loss in my dept.was huge so they are expecting a really good inventory this year so the pressure is on.

Hi Sue,

Hows everything going today.
A better day for me.

Hi ginger,

Inventory, you will do fine. Get a good nights sleep.

Have you ever told your H that if he cannot say anything nice to say nothing at all?

When my H is like that, I point blank tell him he is being disrespectful and I do not like it, and I do not have to listen to it. And I walk away. If he follows, which he usually does not do, I walk away again, until he gets it that I will not listen to it.

Was your S not living with you before? Your H is supposed to the the adult who should be able to be flexible and adjust to children, regardless of their age. Well, guess H will have to get over it. It is part of parenting. Comes with the territory. (In case you cannot tell, I feel strongly on some issues, and there have been times I've told my H as the parent, he is expected to adjust and use precaution, not the child.)(My H has a horrible habit of leaving things lay around, such as utility knives, saws, ect. Once one of the kids accidentally knocked his sawsall (sp), H yelled at him. I told H, that he is at fault, because he did not put it away. It is his responsibility to put his things away, and to make sure that tools he used are not left where children can access. If it fell and broke, he has no one to blame but himself.(the blade broke). I also told him that if one of our children gets hurt because of his irresponsibility and we have to take him/her to the Dr., if the social worker is called in, they will tell him the same thing, so he needs to adjust, not the child, especially a small child.

Hi Sue,

Remember I told you my S had been in a placement program for the last 16mo.So he has been out of the house for that long.

The kids have always been the biggest conflict in out M.My H was always very hard and negative toward the kids because of this I felt bad for them and probably gave in a little more than I should have.
He blames me for all the bad things in life,if the kids make a bad choice it is my fault he says I spoiled them.He does not look at his lack of involvement as a part of the problem.

He thinks that I turned the kids against him and told them bad stuff about him.
I never did this I even asked them if I had ever did or said anything that caused them to have bad feelings for thier dad they all said no.They said the way they feel has to do with how they were treated by him.
We all make bad choices and I have told him I take responsibility for anything I did, I have always defended him in all situations stood by him whether he knew it or not.

He just does not want to take responsibility for things he has done.
So when things get tough and stressful he takes it out on me,drinks to much to try and forget what is going on and then becomes very mean to me,saying ugly hurtful things.

Hi Ginger,

My honest opinion, is, if you can do this safely, point blank tell him the truth when he says stuff that is wrong.

If he says it is your fault that the kids hate him, tell him, no, the kids feel this way because of how you treate them throughout their childhood. Don't accept the blame if you didn't cause it. Put it back in his lap where it belongs. Tell him, that if he cannot accept responsibiltiy for his actions, that is his problem, not yours. Only do this if you can do it safely.

My opinion is, if you sit their and take it, it only justifies his behavior to himself, and he will continue.

Ginger, I know you love him, but do you honestly want to live like this for the next 10 years, 20 years?

Sure, he could go back to the OW, do you honestly think she will put up with this behavior. Probably not.

I know you live in a small town and are worried about gossip, just remember, the gossip is only alive long enough until some one else does something for them to talk about.

You are not responsponsible for his behavior. So don't let him put it on you.

If he blames you for his drinking, tell him, that he chose to drink, his choice, his responsibility.

My honest opinion, is that your M will not improve unless the drinking stops and he goes through treatment. I mean a real treatment center.

My x fiance, tried to blame me for everything that was wrong in his life. Even his daughter not talking to him was my fault. He would not look at the fact that everytime she called, he called her names. No wonder she stopped calling him.

Ginger, I think you are a wonderful person, who deserves better than what you are getting. You need to decide what you deserve and what you will do to get it and what you will not tolerate.

Sue

I feel like you were yelling at me and I deserve it.Everything I mean everything you said is absoulutly true.

I know that I am an enabler for him I am beginning to see it.I have spent my whole life trying to make sure he was happy.

I think about it all the time.Is this what I want for the rest of my life.
My biggest problem is I believe so deeply in commitment and my M is my commitment,I can not deal with failure to leave my M makes me feel like a failure,I cant handle that.I don't know if you can understand what I am trying to say.

My H is so blind when it comes to his own behavior.My oldest D told me the other day when we were talking about this subject that she would gladly tell her dad what he did wrong.She says she has no memories of ever doing anything with her father just the two of them.

I am afraid of change also.He is all I know,I am afraid of the unknown.
I know that I could make it on my own.I know I could but I still love him to much to leave.
I know this all sounds so strange.I even ask myself sometimes how in the world can I still love this man after everything I have been through.

Ginger,

I am not yelling at you. I am angry at your situation. I don't like hearing that you are being yelled at for his own behavior. I don't like hearing that he is being mean to you because of his own issues.

I understand committment to M. I have one too. However, if you have done all you can, and it is all or almost all one sided, there comes a time, when decisions need to be made. How long do you want to live this way,

Be back

Ok yelling was a strong word.Sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That is the million dollar question.How long?

I always thought the one thing in life I would never tolerate was an A and here I am.
I really do not know what will be the breaking point for me.

I know in my mind what I want from my M and it does not seem to me to be impossible to have.Making H see the same picture is the hard part.

He wrote me an e-mail while I was gone last weekend and in it he said he wants to love me 100%but he cant because I cry to much.
Sorry but this statement did not set well with me.I did write him back,I told him I was sorry I was so hard to love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I think I am pretty loveable myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm back

Now, don't get me wrong, please continue to come here. It angers me that he is so selfish about everything with himself, and refused to see how his treatment of you and the kids has created the current situation.

And as for you Ginger, there comes a time, when you have to decide what is more important.

Remember, it takes two to get married, and it takes two to make it work. Not one. The only failure in a failed marriage is when no one tries. If one person tries and the marriage fails, the person who tried did not fail, the person who did not try is the one who failed. They failed to protect their marriage by not trying. So, you would not be a failure. If you were, you would not be here trying to make it work.

However, you do not have to allow him to degrade you. I don't want to see you lose who you are with his yelling and blaming.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> He wrote me an e-mail while I was gone last weekend and in it he said he wants to love me 100%but he cant because I cry to much.
<hr /></blockquote>What a bunch of doggy doo doo. I know if my H said that to me, I don't know exactly what I would say, but I know I would have said something along the lines that it is a bunch of crap. He either loves me or he does not. Just because I have feelings and emotions does not mean he cannot love me. It means I am human because I have feelings. When it comes to disrepecting me to my face, I don't hold back.

He cannot accept that he had something to do with your unhappiness. He is trying to invalidate your feelings. They are your feelings, and yours alone.

You know, we are each responsible for making our own happiness. We cannot look to others for that. However, the actions of those we love can be the cause of our unhappiness. These are two entirely different statements, with different meanings.

Ginger, you really need to see just how wonderful you really are. Your kids see it. There is a reason why they are close to you.

As far as your S goes, he is still a minor, so your H will just have to accept that he has a responsibility to provide a roof over his head, food on the table, and clothing on his back.

What type of program was your S in. If you dont' want to discuss it here, e-mail me.

Could it be that S is bringing some of the program ideans home, and H does not want to listine to it. After all, H does not want to accept that he has issues.

Ginger - you said I was compassionate and nice, I think you make me look like Curilla (sp?). You are very sensitive to hurting others feelings.

I hope your H wakes up and smells the coffee before it is too late.

He is selfish this I know.
If I say nothing and smile we have a good day.
Today he called me when I was ready to get off work,he said he was at his favorite mexican restaruant and wanted me to meet him there.I had plans things I needed to get done but I said nothing about that and met him there.
He was in a good mood and we ate and talked a little about what he had done during the day.

I took a chance and told him it was our 8mo.aniversary.He looked puzzled and said 8mo.I said yes 8mo.ago today you took me to a restaraunt and the words you told me changed my life,I have not been the same since.Then I went on to say Is there something you want to tell me.He said no.

I was looking for an I love you,I am so sorry,I want to make everything right.He just said no.
I repeated my question again and then he said,oh yea I love you!!

He thinks if we do not discuss what has happened everything is fine.
I don't.

I will e-mail you the whole story on my S.

Sue you are so kind
I think it is your H that needs to wake up
by the way how is he doing

Oh, I already know that my H needs a big wake up call and he will get it.

H is doing okay, considering. Last night, when I got home, he was already sleeping. Everytime he changed positions he moaned in pain. He is taking meds, but somedays are worse than others.

He is going to both physical therapy and massage therarpy (I'd be happy to take this appt for him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). What I would give for a good massage.

His Dr. referred him to both of these.

Is he going to be able to go back to work?

My dad broke both of his legs and he was never the same he had to be trained for a different type of work he could no longer do what he was doing before.

Is the pain keeping him at home? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Sue,
Hi Ginger.

Sue,
I have been thinking about you these last few days. I know none of us can fix your marriage with our advice. Most of us stay away from hard advice lately so you can get done what you need to get done. Mostly we try to give support lately, but you are always thinking, so I may as well say some things.

Mostly I wonder how you will finish this out. There are a number of ways you can go about it. I can imagine you bringing it up to him after the kids are gone to bed. I can imagine you speaking with a soft voice, but it has a hard edge. I see you telling him you know, going in to detail about how much you know and giving him choices.

I can't see his reaction. I don't know him like you do, and I can't guess what he will say and do.

Things I can't see:
I don't see you giving the next few months anything but your very best.
I can't see you making mistakes in this conversation. I see you cool, calm, and very firm.
I don't see you giving him any room to get out of this. There will be things he has to do, or it's over for him.
I don't see you ever going back to this same situation again.

So, we talk, we give support, we encourage, and we tease, but the bottom line is that we hope. We hope for the very best result possible.
When you think about things, and you wonder, and you ( sometimes) fear the result, remember you have friends. We care, we pray for you, and we will be there at the other end, no matter what that end is. Wish we could do more, just wanted you to know.

SS

Hi SS
Hi Ginger

I don't know if H will be able to go back to work. His Dr. told him today or was it yesterday, that he will be out approx. 6 more weeks for sure.

SS, you pretty much have it right. I have had along time to think this over. I know what I want, and I know what I will not accept. There is no room for negotiating. If I settle for anything less, I might as well pack and leave because I will not be happy in a situation that is less than what I want.

How will he react, even I'm not sure.

He might be angry, he might try to turn the blame on me, he might tell me I was wrong to snoop, and says he has the right to be made because I invaded his privacy, he might be shocked and scared. He might agree with everything trying to pacify me, thinking all he has to do is agree, and that will be the end of it. Which I will cover this part when I confront. I will let him know that if he agrees, he has to follow through, and there will be a time limit for him to do so. Failure to do so will result in separation, failure to still do so will result in divorce.

He might say I am crazy, and imagining things.

Will I use a soft voice, I don't know. It depends upon what I am feeling at the time.

I do have a temper. I try to keep in in control, and I usually succeed. I know I found out 8 years ago that Correll (sp?) breaks when thrown against a wall, and don't slamm things on glass tables, because you will shatter the table (about 3 weeks ago). (Now we don't have a kitchen table thanks to me).

I'm still waiting for my letter telling me I can schedule my boards. I check the mail daily. They cashed my payment. So, all that is left is scheduling, passing and finding a job.

I just received my e-mail confirmation that I can schedule my test.

Now I am really scared, I have until November to take it. I don't feel ready. I have a few more things I want to do at the Prep center, I'm thinking I will schedule my test so I can finish that up. Maybe at the end of the month or middle of next month.

I can find out the results in two days, but the official results will take about a month to get.

My student loans payments start in November, so I hope to be working before November.

This is scary guys. It is so easy to say I'm going to do it, now I have to do it.

You can do it Sue I know you can.

Sorry to hear about H didn't he just get back to work.Does he get any pay while he is out?

How has he been you did not say,is he staying around the house.

My FIL had a long term A,he burned his hand real bad,he told me that was a sign from God to stop doing what he was doing and take care of his wife and faimily.Maybe this is Gods sign to H laying him out flat on his back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have a good weekend I work this weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I don't know if he will get disability or not. I hope so, if not, then I have to find a second job. I don't make enough with my job to support the family

Sorry to hear that.You have enough to do without having to get a second job.

Is H able to help out with kids and house while he is home?

How was your weekend did not hear from you I figure you were really busy as usual.

Yes, it was busy. Kids had end of the year soccer jamboree, depending upon their level they play for the championship. My oldest team took second place. Not bad for a team that lost most of their games all summer. My other two their teams just played as normal. They don't do championship games at their level. As my youngest coach told them, they are all winners for playing the year. They all got trophys or medals.

I got my hair cut, and went to the center to study for boards.

Speaking of boards, I scheduled them. I could have scheduled them for the end of this month, but I don't know if that is enough time for me to be ready. Since it is costing me a total of 300.00 each time I take it, 100.00 to the state, and 200.00 to the testing facility. I want to be sure I have enough time to be ready. So, I scheduled them for mid September. Right now, I dont' feel ready. Or as one person put it, you never feel ready, but I want to go in their knowing I fully prepared myself to take this test.

So, I might be scarce for the next month, all my spare time will be dedicated to this.

H is limited on what he can do to help. But he is trying to get the kids to do as much as possible and leaving me dishes and laundry. If that is all I have to do, then I will be okay with spare time.

[ August 11, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

Sounds busy.

Good to hear you are on your way with boards.I know what you mean about a nerve racking month.Tomorrow is my inventory I cant wait for it to be over,I just pray the numbers come out good.If they don't then they will be looking at who is in my dept. and probably suspect everyone of stealing.I do not like that,I am very honest maybe to honest so this type of pressure drives me crazy.

Oh a hair cut boy could I use one of those.By the end of the day I am so hot my hair is up on top of my head.My H tells me he loves it when I pull my hair up like that.It looks like a rats nest to me.I just cant decide if I want to cut it shorter or not.I have let it get a little longer than I have in years.Mostly I hate my hair,I wish God would have given me good hair,my hair is thin and has natuarl curls,so pretty much it has a mind of its own and does what ever it wants. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well stay on top of the family make sure they help you out as much as possible you have a long month ahead of you.

I think it is wise to study and be at your best when you go. (meaning that September is good.) I believe you will pass, and not just pass, but do very well.
Sue,

I am sorry that with all else that you do, you have the added trouble of a hurt H. I hope he is nice when he hurts, and not crabby like I am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You sound pretty steady, you always do well in an emergency. Maybe God is just keeping you busy so you don't have time to worry.

Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

SS

[ August 12, 2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi Sue,
I hope your H is in less pain by now and thus family life is less stressful for you.
I will be cheering for you haveing enough study time to assure success at the boards.

I am taking life as it comes right now. Anti-d made me feel more relaxed and less preoccupied with every move I make. I catch all little moments of joy I can have and hope that the miracle will happen soon - or at least while I still care.

I might not post very often, but I will still lurk. Thinking of you,
FBOW

I don't have much time, thougth I'd pop in reall quick, reply on a couple of posts.

I am very busy right now. H is not getting much better at the moment. Time will tell. All we can do is wait.

I am going to take a walk on my break, trying to get back the old bod I used to have. Got it from walking, i hope to find in on the walking path. My work has a walking path for employee use. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi Sue,
I know how busy you are.
Any time to study today?

Thats what I need to do,some exercise.
I think I would have a little more energy then.
I'll be walking alright,from my apt.to the laundry room.LOL

Ill check in later see if you had a chance to post tonight.If not have a great night and talk to you soon.

I study from 10 - 1 or 1:30 almost everyday. I go to a center that is designed to help people pass Nursing boards, get into med school, law school, they even help prepare HS students for their ACTs, or SATs I forget what it is called. I have to pay for it, but they claim 95% pass boards the first time.

Hi Sue
How is work tonight?
H works late so Ive been online tonight.

The center sounds like a great place.
Do you mind me asking why do you feel so nervous about the boards?
I know they must not be easy but you are very intellegent what makes it so nerve racking for you?
I'm just wondering.
I hope that does not sound like a dumb question.

SUE-
You can do it. I know it.
Wanted you to know I did what I wanted- I am now sitting in Lincoln, NE waiting to move into my dorm room on August 18 and begin finishing my degree on August 25. I have even bought my OWN TRUCK in MY NAME- something I have never done alone.
I miss my kids and my husband but they seem to be doing well. My husband seems a little stunned that I actually did follow through and left to do this.
We're strong women, Sue. We both can do it.

Well, I will be quick here

I am doing lots of studying, today I didn't make it to the center, sort of bummed about that. But, thats okay. I will get back there. Next week I can't go at all, daycare is on vacation. I will continue to study. I enrolled in the centers online course, so I can study from home too. Some of their information is not available online, so the following week, I will get byself back there and finish up the focus books. I hope to have them done by the end of the month, do the sample tests, evalute any weak areas and concentrate on them.

The homefront, well, its okay

Intercepted e-mails from OW. I did notice one thing, H usually does not e-mail her first, it is her e-mailing him and suggesting activities. There is no "I love you"'s or stuff like that. But she keeps trying to set up dates.

So, like a good wife that I am, I make sure I make plans with my hubby for those dates and time frames. After all, he is my husband and I should have first consideration.

Mojodiva - good to hear from you. I'm glad to hear you are furthering yourself. You sound so excited about this. What is your major? Do you have past college credits? How long will it take you to finish school?

Please, remember to take care of your M. If I remember your H is in the military, correct? When will he be out, is he and the kids going to join you in Nebraska? I hope you guys have a plan to keep your marriage safe. I hope your H is very supportive of this. How are the kids doing?

I know, so many questions. You have been gone for a while.

Well, gotta get back to work. Will update more soon I hope

Hi Sue

Are these e-mails recent?

Maybe you should e-mail her back and set up a date and then blow her away when you walk in instead of H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What is wrong with this woman?She has to know your H isn't going anywhere or would'nt he be gone by now?

Very recent.

I thought about e-mailing her back and telling her that "I can't, I'm taking my wife out" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Instead I decided to do nothing.

She would not care if I showed up. She has the sort of personality that she has the upper hand, and if I was taking care of my man, he would not be looking else where.

I think my H also has issues with letting go. I know one time, way back when, we had split up, it was because of an xGF, he kept coming over, at least once a week to see how I was doing. I was doing fine, and told him so. So, that is why I think he has a hard time letting go.

I really don't like women like that.

How about this,tell her that H comes with 3 kids,and you need a week off to study here are the kids see you next week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm just kidding of course.
But I wonder who would have the upper hand then.
The one thing I really did not like about my H affair was he thought he had the right to show her pic. of MY kids.

That was none of her business she had her own baby who in my oppinion did not care about to much after all she brought the baby with her when she slept with my H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
That thought makes me so sick.Not just with her but with my H.How could he do that,I lost some respect when I found out this piece of info.
Oh just thinking of it get me so sick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Sue,
Love the idea of you setting up stuff with hubby during the times she is attempting to get together with him. LOL
My going off to college was actually my husband's idea. I had to leave college during the time he was a civilian and there was a ton of anger and resentment surrounding that sacrifice. He knew this and it was an important thing to him for me to be also contributing to the household monetarily (I never knew this because he never said anything). When he first asked me about it it was before I found out about his affair and further contact with the OW via email. My gut told me he was trying tog et rid of me, and he admits now that it partially was this motivation at first, but a larger reason was that I was not happy and he knew I was still angry about having to leave college because of his own selfishness (and he uses that word- not me).
After I found out about the affair I refused to leave like I had planned. You know of course how terrified you can feel. Then I started become angry that, once again, his bad behavior was screwing up MY plans. Four months into recovery he brought it up again and I had to confess to still considering leaving to finish my degree. Also, a part of me needed to get some space from him and re-evaluate my own needs and wants. The next 9 months is going to be just about me, Because it seems that the positive changes I have been making are making positive changes in our marriage.

I have about 5 semesters of work to finish my Bachelor's in English. My kids wanted to stay in Guam and they are both very supportive of me being at school. If I didn't trust my husband as a *parent* I would never have been able to do this. Its trusting my husband 100% with fidelity I am having a bit of trouble with. I have had a couple panic attacks this week (I've been away from home now for exactly one week) just thinking and wondering what he is doing and saying while playing Yahoo games. He has, however, left both his yahoo accts open for me to see, and he doesn't play with the same women over and over again (I Know because I check). And we both now play together on the site (we like Literati).

It didn't help that my husband, about a month ago, started pushing me to 'get even with him' and have an affair of my own this December. HE felt that it would make me less angry, would make us even, and he wouldn't have to keep worrying that I was going to do it anyway. No kidding, he actually said that. He also commented that once I had the affair I could never say one more word about his own. Ha! It didn't take much at all to figure out he was trying to lessen his own guilt and get himself out of being the 'bad' one.

What he didn't realize is this suggestion made me feel a couple things he hadn't even considered. It made me feel less valued & cherished as a wife- since he was so ready and willing to share me with someone else. And it made me paranoid, because I felt like he was trying to set me up- I'd do the deed and he'd have a better reason not to work on this marriage (by claiming later he couldn't handle it). After awhile, I finally got tired of it and told him it was never going to happen and to stop talking about it. He dropped it immediately.

I'm trying to be very careful. I just picked up Divorce Busting on Friday and its been helpful. I need to stop being so needy- it turns my husband off I think. He gets more interested when I do things on my own and go out and explore. He keeps telling me to go out and have fun so I have more to talk about.

Just got off the phone with him- I feel better. I know this panic stuff is natural, but I really hate it.

Thanks for asking Sue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As you accomplish more, the more confidence you build in yourself.

I don't have much more to say right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It didn't help that my husband, about a month ago, started pushing me to 'get even with him' and have an affair of my own this December. HE felt that it would make me less angry, would make us even, and he wouldn't have to keep worrying that I was going to do it anyway. No kidding, he actually said that. He also commented that once I had the affair I could never say one more word about his own. Ha! It didn't take much at all to figure out he was trying to lessen his own guilt and get himself out of being the 'bad' one.
<hr /></blockquote>Heya, Mojo! Glad to hear you're doing well. Take care of your marriage while you're taking care of you, eh?

The words above made me think that perhaps you're using the affair to LB. Sounds to me like your husband is feeling the effects of AOs and DJs, and that he's hoping you'll stop if you have an affair yourself.

My advice would be that you stop the AOs and DJs without having an affair! It might be better for all concerned if you simply stopped talking about the affair. It's in the past now, and the present is going to take all the time and effort you've got. School several thousand miles from your husband and babies???? My gosh, that's a huge challenge! Time to figure out how to stay fully involved with their present, sounds like to me!

I bet you'll handle it with aplomb and grace, though. Add it to your control journal, maybe: E-mail husband and each baby each day. Call them twice a week (or whatever you can afford). Visit X times per semester... Etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Heya, long time no see.
Actually, I don't LB, DJ, or anything at all. Truthfully. What he doesn't want to deal with is having to answer questions when they came to me or when I started worrying. Its gotten to where I don't ask anymore. I even stopped asking him to read the books. I gave up on that. I do resent that he got out of reading something he promised to read but is it working if you have to bring it up twice a week and he still doesn't read? It doesn't. I put the books away in my closet and he didn't say a word. I don't even think he noticed.

Right now, I'm here for me. I know its important to him that I finish school and I gain more confidence and I lose weight. However, what he doesn't realize is that while I am working so hard on myself, if he doesn't change at all himself, we're in for a rough ride.

My husband allows me to read his yahoo emails. He acts like he is doing me a favor. He hates it. I can't access his work one though, because its military.

I asked him this morning on the phone if he really thinks we are going to be ok. He said yes and to stop worrying. I worry that I am going to become the woman he wants, but I will not be satisfied with the man that he is. I feel like I am the only one doing anything proactive. I feel needy and I hate it.

So Im doing a 180* beginning this week on a couple things. I've been calling him everyday when I panic. I know it seems like I am checking up on him. I'm going to stop calling and wait for him to call me. When he goes back to work next week I am going to call when the kids are home and he isn't so I can talk to them. I am tired of being the one waiting by the phone. Time to do things he isn't expecting.

I am also going to stop emailing him everyday. He doesn't write me back because he says we talk on the phone almost everyday, I don't think he realizes hwo important those emails are to me- proof that he thinks of me during the day- even though I have told him several times.

I need to stop living for him and live for myself.

Sue & J-
Just wanted to point out that although my post seems pretty negative- I am admittedly experiencing my first week away from my H and its definately been harder for me to handle than I expected. When I left we were in a good place pretty much, I know I am just frustrated that I feel like I'm trying to do so much stuff differantly that seeing him do so little frustrates me to no end.

I think we will be fine, I am just venting a bit.

Hi,

Moving from Guam to the midwest, leaving kids behind, is a huge move. It would make anyone feel somewhat unsettled.

Do well in school and try to keep in touch with your family as much as possible.

Hi Sue

Hows every thing going in Sue's world these days.

Sue's world:

Okay. Weekend was good. Saturday, got up, went to farmers market, (there is a stand there that makes the best bagel sandwiches, I think I go mainly for that, and I'm sure the calories are a whole weeks worth). Came home, went to store, bought a door, neighbor helped me get it out of SUV, went grocery shopping, came home make my dish for MB gettoghether at Cerri's.

H and OS had a day planed for the two of them (they didn't want to go). They were supposed to go to a movie, the movie at this theater only played at one time during the day, the rest of the day they played "american wedding" not appropirate for a 9year old. They stayed up until 4am playing computer games

Sunday, as a family we went to the movied "Spy kids" We came home, all was going well, we discussed reinstating game night.

H tells me while I'm in the shower he is running to get paint thinner. I was going to tell him to wait, I will go, and he was gone. It took him 4 hours to buy paint thinner and did not come home with it. He said he was looking around. He says he went to the MOA. He tells me he does not like the MOA, so, why does he go there? Good question. Maybe she works there? or did they go together. H is grumpy today.

I'm outside painting the garage door, I come in, I ran out of paint, (didn't plan properly). Kids were filling water ballons in the house. (I told them no water balloons until Monday). H yells at them, I come in, he angrily asks where I was, I told him, he says I looked. I guess he did not look hard enough. I was there, three neighbors saw me, plus the guys that work at a furncace cleaning place behind our house, and one police officer. (lets not forget obnoxious teens who live in neighborhood). Anyway, then H yells, he is tired of these "horrible [censored]". So, why and I trying to make this work. I need to reevaluate this. I leave the house to finish garage door. Too angry to talk. I come back in, calmer and tell him that what he said was inappropriate, and hurtful to me and the kids. His response was, "I didnt' hit them". I told him, you might as well have, verbal abuse leaves deeper scars, and it is recognized by Social Services as abuse. All it take is one of them repeating what you say to a teacher, daycare, anyone, and they can make the call and report him. He will be investigated, and made to leave the home until he fulfills a anger management plan and parenting plan. I asked him, so who called you a "horrible [censored]" that you feel you can call your children that. He didn't reply and I went to bed. As horrible as this is, at least it is not a daily occurance. But it happens enough that our oldest thinks dad hates him.

I get a call at work, MS, steps on screw with barefeet. I leave to take him to clinic, to get a tetnus shot and have it looked at. I asked him, what did you dad do about it.
MS:"he told me to soak it in the tub".

Me: "did he set it up?"

MS: "No, he was where he always is, the computer"

MS: "what is the Dr. going to do?"

ME: give you a tetnus shot if you need it, look at it, probably give you an antibiotic for infections"

Me: "so, dad did not help you set up the tub to soak your foot? Did you use soap? Hydrogen peroxide?"

MS: "no, just water"

Can someone tell me, why I want to make this work with such a selfish, self centered man? I am running out of acceptable reasons as to why to make it work, and finding more reasons to pack a bag for him and telling him to leave his keys.

Oh, I am not hurt by all of this, I am very, very, very P.O'd by this. When I get this mad, I feel nothing for the man, not love, not hate, not pity, I feel nothing for him

[ August 18, 2003, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]

I decided to change me at this time to SwH

Hi Sue

It took me a while to find you then I noticed you changed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok all I can say is I totally relate to what happened at your house.One day your H is going to ask just like mine why don't the kids ever come to me,why don't they talk to me,why don't I have a relationship with them like you.
My H thinks its because I spoiled them.I don't call treating them kind and loving,and not calling them names spoiling.

I am so sorry this happened it makes me so angry when men do this to thier children.

I hope your S is ok,hows his foot?
And tell me again why YOU had to leave work to take care of this?He could not take him to the clinic.

My youngest is 15 and my H registered her in school this year for me.I don't know how he did it.It was the first time ever to do any thing like this and our oldest is almost 26.Like I told you before he is a little slow,it only took him 26yrs to be able to help me in this area.

I know you don't want to hear this,but hang in there,better days are ahead.
You are always in my thoughts and prayers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sue - just wanted to stop in and return the favor....see how you were doing. I am sorry for such the rough weekend. FWIW I think you were completely right that he shouldn't use that language toward the kids. Your point about verbal abuse is right on. Even just the tone of voice sometimes can make a negative scar.

Please tell us how your son's foot is. Ironically, MJR just got a tetanus shot last week when we moved and he got cut from a nail or staple on the couch - had to get some stitches - OUCH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Anyway, hope your son was a trooper! I'm sure he was anyway.

I hope things get better for you and your H. I wish he would show a little respect for you - you are such a good person.

Anyway, just wanted to say Hi and see how you were. My thoughts are with you.

Gee whiz,
Leave for a few days, and now I can't even find Sue's thread.
LOL.................

Can someone tell me, why I want to make this work with such a selfish, self centered man? I am running out of acceptable reasons as to why to make it work, and finding more reasons to pack a bag for him and telling him to leave his keys.

I could go hunt up some threads where you see good things too, but I know if you think you'll remember them. I CAN tell you that I believe my W thinks these same things some days about me, and if YOU think about it a little bit, you will understand that I am saying much more here than what you can read.

Oh, I am not hurt by all of this, I am very, very, very P.O'd by this. When I get this mad, I feel nothing for the man, not love, not hate, not pity, I feel nothing for him

Lets see (I forget it word for word, but I'll do it as best I can.) " the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference."

So, I worry. I hope time passes quickly, ( but not too quickly) and that you pass your boards in the top 5 percent, and that your H responds CORRECTLY and dumps OW and that you live happily ever after - continueing all the while to give good advice on MB.

Since I don't KNOW how things will go, I'll continue to pray for you. You can vent all you want, but DON'T GIVE UP YET. Neither cerri, or I will give our permission right now.
( cerri, hang with me on this one for a while.)

How do you feel about the studies?

How are the kids, including the foot?

I don't dare bring up the home improvement projects, but you can if you want.

I did enjoy the little piece of Sue's world. Can we make it a weekly? Daily?

Sue, it's good to be back. Thanks for listening. Please don't kick me our of your fan club, I'm just trying to help.

SS

[ August 19, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS - I won't give up, not yet. And you are always welcome in my fan club. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (So is everyone else). I would not have made it this far without you guys.

Home Improvements projects still going on. We are hoping to get a fence up before winter. I'm going to see if BIL will do roof on garage. Otherwise, I know of someone I can ask, they will want to be paid, I don't know if we can afford it right now.

Ginger, LIT, everyone,

H could have taken him, I'm glad I did. I wanted to. This morning the top of his foot across from where he stepped on the screw was red/pink, MS says it does not hurt, so that is encouraging. I called and talked to MS, he says he can walk on it, and it does not hurt. So, this all sounds encouraging. He has to go back to the Dr. tomorrow, he wants to reassess it.

Thank for asking

Well, I will be busier than I expected.

BIL died of a heart attack. He was only 31 years old. My sister is a wreck.

I hope none of his OW's or xOW's show up. Yes, my BIL cheated on my sister. He told her just before they got married that she should not expect him to remain faithful. She didn't think he meant it, and she stayed, because she loved him and because she felt she accepted the terms at marriage. (I once told her, just because you agreed at the time, does not mean it is acceptable to you today).

[ August 22, 2003, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]

If he died of a heart attack at such a young age, maybe the stress of leading a double life and betraying the ones he loved got to him.

Does your H know the whole story about your BIL?

Dear Sue,
I am so sorry to hear about this unexpected loss of a relative.
I can't find the right words to express my true belief that "There is a larger plan for all you are faced with, and that you might be helped when you the least expect it".
Sue, my prayers are with your family.
FBOW

Sue
It never seems to stop for you.
I am so sorry for this.Are you close to your sister?
I know that you will have the right words of comfort for her,you always do.
Take care and post when you can so we all know how you are doing.
I am praying for you.That God will give you the strength you need.

Hi Sue and Ginger....finally updated my story. I have been busy trying to complete to new threads for the EN board. One is a Welcome thread....quite different from the ones in the past. The other is a concept based thread that cerri encouraged me to start there like the one she has here on JFO. Sorry I have been MIA. Also helping cerri when I can....she's got some big probs and needed some help delivering emails that weren't going through.

I will catch up....and miss you both. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am worried about Danish. I wish she would post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

All of us our close, sort of. We get busy in our day to day lives, we try to get together, but don't always have time. We are always there for each other when we need to be.

My H knows about my BIL, he never says much. Except, he did make the comment that "maybe he never told them he was married" Honestly, I believe my BIL would have told them the truth about being married.

The last couple of years, I suspect he was probably faithful. He started having some severe physical problems that the Dr.s could not resolve. It is possible that these problems could be related to him having a heart attack. His back started deteriorating, and he could not work. He also started having some sort of nerve disorder, but no one could figure out what was wrong. He could not work, and when he did, the job did not last long. I know it bothered him that he was not working. For as long as we have known him he has always worked, some jobs did not pay as well as others, he always brought home a paycheck.

They were looking forward to my sister graduating from school this December, the company she worked for closed, part of the severance agreement was paying for school.

My sister and neice are doing well. My sister, all she can do is recall the night he died. Which is normal, my mom did the same thing when my dad died.

Well, gotta go.

yesterday, H was gone all day. I was not worried yesterday, he was with a friend who I totally trust. Today, he is, I dont' know. Cell phone is off, and he was gone when I woke up.

Hi Sue

My thoughts are with you.
I have the grandkids again.D starts school tomorrow and could not find a sitter for the baby,she has been looking for weeks everything is coming up empty.So good old mom to the rescue H and I will rearrange our schedules for a little while to help out.

We had a shock happen this weekend.A young boy,he is in his 20's was killed,shot by another man.He was the BF of my D friend,the girl is like a D to me.My heart is sick over it,they have a 1yr old who will now grow up without a father.So tragic and senseless.

I need to go baby is needing some attention,I will check in later.
Hate to hear that H is not treating you so well these days.

Sue,
I don't always know what to say, It's hard to care and not know what to do or say.

I think (knowing you) that you will be a great strength to everyone right now. I wish you didn't have to, but I know you will be.

I don't know if you will every get the rest you deserve, but I do know that no good deed goes unrewarded, and if you continue to do your best, you will be blessed for it. I have to think that will be worth it.

You do too, or you would have quit by now.

It is worth it, so don't quit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Adding my faith to everyone elses in behalf of your family. Wish I could do more.

SS

[ August 24, 2003, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

HI Sue

Just thinking of you.
Hope all is ok.

Take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All is okay

One sad thing that about my BIL, well, it was good, it was sad at the same time.

He had a daughter from a previous R. A couple of years ago or so, she decided she did not want to see her dad anymore. They always tried to keep in touch, but did not force the issue. About couple of months ago, she started calling him and wanting to see him. On the bright side, he did not die before they made peace with each other, on the sad side, they lost 2 years.

My sister could not go near the where he layed without breaking up. She spent alot of time outside smoking. She is glad she has some pictures of her H and the kids at some very tender moments, such as kids sleeping on his chest.

BIL and sister won a trip to Mexico about 3 years ago, they went and had a great time.
She has that memory.

She was doing okay when I left the service yesterday. I had to leave, D had a place she had to be. Before I left, I made sure that one of my other sisters had arrived, so she had one of us there for her.

You still have backup.

Keep doing what you need to do.

SS

HI Sue

Some how I missed your last post.I am so sorry.
How is your S doing now?

Most important how are you?
Feeling any better?

I really miss you!!!!!!!!

Take care ok.
Hope to chat with you soon.
I am always thinking of you and praying for you.

My sister is doing okay. She starts school back up this week. She graduates in December. It will be a happy and sad day for her.

H has been different lately, a good different. I cannot explain. He is better. I've been through this before, so at this point, I cannot expect it to stay. Maybe it will. I will come back later and say more. I'm at work, so I have to be quick.

HI Sue

Glad to hear your sister is doing ok.
As good as can be expected I guess.

I have been so busy with the grandkids.
I have not felt real good lately,very moody thinking of the A way to much don't really know why.
H said something the other day I think that started it.Big trigger and I have not felt the same since.I feel like I am really shuting down.Not a healthy place to be.

Do me a favor ok.Don't work to hard tonight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Any big plans for the long weekend?
None here I work this weekend,I have mon. and tues. off though.
D is suppose to come and pick up GS on mon. but will be leaving the baby for a little while.

Hope to hear from you soon take care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No big plans, study, laundry, make sure kids have everything for school. Clean house.

I have triggers too, they last a while, then I'm okay. It goes on and off. I don't think we ever truly forget. I think over time, it gets easier to deal with.

I am so tired today.

Im tired too.

I could hardly keep my eyes open past 8 last night.
I have been cleaning and doing my laundry today.
Oh what a nice day off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Yes the good old triggers.
It has gotten easier I guess I just figured by now it would not hurt anymore.
So much for thinking huh!

I hope you can rest a little this weekend.

I'll probably sleep in tomorrow. Then get my tushy in gear. I really need it.

I will be so glad when the 19th is past.

Is that test day?

Sleep what is that?LOL
Now that I am the temporary mother of two toddlers I am back to the old who needs to sleep life.
Its not like I was sleeping very well before they came but at least if I was dead tired I could take a nap after work.
Now...............not a chance.The baby is a climber and you don't dare close your eyes or turn your back on her for a minute!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You got it, that is test day.

I know what you mean about climber. My boys are 15 months apart. Everyone said, it was like raising twins, and I will not have a moments peace. I didn't know what they were talking about. It was easy with them as toddlers. Then came baby girl. She is more work, more creative, more innovative than the two boys put together. I lose more sleep over her than I did the boys. Good luck to you, hey, they keep you young.

Ginger, you have a heart of gold, has anyone ever told you that?

A heart of gold?Not sure what you mean by that.

Yes they keep you young and they are so fun,but boy do they wear you out.Makes me glad I had my kids young.

She just finished her dinner so the plate just went to the floor.So much for moping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will try and remember that day mark it on my calander.Not that you will need it but I will pray extra hard for you that day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I need a vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What I mean by a "Heart of Gold", is you are very warm, compassionate, giving, loving, caring, it shows in your posts to others and to me, it shows with you you love your kids and grandkids and how you love your H.

I hope he knows how special and what a gem you really are.

Thanks Sue
You are too kind.
I don't really feel like that,I do love and care for my family but lately I feel like it is all in vain.

Son had a drug test,it was not clean <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
He showed up positive for pot.He has only been home a month.
This is so draining.I don't know what else to do to help him.

At least H did not blow his top at me this time and tell me he was leaving.Although he did say today that sometimes he feels like quiting it is just to hard seeing me hurting.

I wonder if he ever thinks about how hard this whole thing has been on me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You both have hearts of Gold.

I checked in and I see that you girls are doing fine considering it is Friday night on a holiday weekend. We were supposed to go camping but had transmision problems so got to stay home.

Since I can't possibly keep up with the two of you, I'll go, but wanted you to know I was thinking of you.

SS

SS
I have been wonder about you.How is life in your world?

Hope you have a good weekend even though you have to stay home.
You could be me I have to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Holiday weekend its sure to be busy.

Have a nice weekend.
You too Sue,enjoy the extra day off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS is fine.

Since I had a day at home, I poured cement on the side of the house. Nice relaxing day.
NOT!!

The people that invited us camping reported that the weather was nice in the mountains and we should have come. (talk about rub it in.) Maybe next time.

Ginger, I can see that you won't get any rest soon, and Sue won't really relax until the testing is over with. I'll try and do it for you this next week.

Well, I would but I am still about two weeks behind at work. Maybe the next week.

See you girls later.

SS

Yep, no rest for me. I went into my boys room, with the intent of dragging all the stuff they hid under the bed, under the dresser and in the closet (their attempt at cleaning and thinking I didn't know it was under the furniture).

Well, in the process, I discovered the cat had decided to use the corner behind the dresser as a cat box (I know, gross). So, I pulled up the carpet, bleached the floor, washed it with an oil base soap (hardwood), then polished it. I kept wondering why I could not get rid of the smell after I would shampoo thier rug. Now I know.

H went out of town with his father, I was not totally thrilled with it, but H wonders when he will have a chance. My BIL's death, has him wondering when his father will pass. His father does not take care of his health, has already had bypass surgery and did not change his lifestyle one bit. Drinks heavy, smokes heavy and eats poorly. I wonder, was this really what he was thinking or just another excuse to go out of town. H did put on his ring, which surprised me (even though it is the ring I do not like). Lately he has been calling me hon, and has been very considerate.

I don't know what happened, but so far, I'm not complaining

HI Sue
Sounds like a big job,the floor in the boys room I mean.
H out of town?Do you trust FIL?
Where did they go?

If you look at the time and wonder what in the world I am doing up at this hour.Well its 1am here and both kids decide to wake up,they are watching cartoons and drinking OJ as I type away.I guess there will be no rest for me for a while,I wanted to get up early but this is not what I had in mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I worked SAT and SUN it was real busy but I get to meet some really neat people at work,today(or yesterday now I guess)I met some people traveling to mexico.They were buying a gift for thier DIL to be,they had never met her,thier son had called and said he was getting married on tues.They were the sweetest people imagine they bought a heart shaped diamond necklace W/matching earings for her they wanted to bring her a gift, wish I had in-laws like that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Another family came in to buy a wedding set for thier brother who was in the hospital and wanted to propose to his GF.

Some times its hard for me working there seeing all the kind acts people do for the ones they love.So many men coming in to buy something for thier wife just because she is so special.Some days I go home real depressed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sue,Sue were are you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Is everything ok?

Just checking in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey Ginger,
I think Sue
confronted her H and he swore off OW, says he's madly in love with Sue, and they are gone to Hawaii for three weeks.

Actually, I don't know where she is, but she may be cramming for the test that comes up in a couple of weeks. She may have joined an expedition to the South pole, or she may be fileing for the presidential race as an independant cantidate.

There are other possibilities including working and taking care of her kids, but that sounds so normal.

I hope you are more rested <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , very happy, and doing well yourself, and I hope WHEREVER SUE IS that she is also. FBOW seems to be much better lately, I think it's the drugs. I wonder if I can get some of those for me??

Sue, can you write perscriptions?

Just kidding. Once I took three asprin together but that's about as bad as I ever abused anything except icecream.

Much happiness and stuff like that to everyone here tonight.

SS

SS

I know that Sue is busy.I think all of the above are possible, however if she left for an island she was suppose to take me along we were going to leave All WS at home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> now that would be some real R&R <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Right now I have a 3yr old eating HOT cheetos insisting that he likes them however w/every bite he yells "GRANDMA,GRANDMA,THESE ARE HOT"and is fanning his mouth.
The baby is putting her chair on top of the coffee table and trying to sit on it,I am so tired I'm not sure any of this even matters right now.That island vacation is starting to sound real good just about now.

As for me I feel like I am living in limbo,going nowhere fast!!!!!

I'm here, cramming for boards, finished the floor and my body again threatened to leave me.

Do I trust FIL? NO!!!!, but H is not dumb enough to do anything in front of him. FIL gets drunk and says what ever he feels like. So, H would not trust that FIL when drunk, which is often, could keep quiet.

FIL says he was faithful, MIL says he was not. FIL says MIL was unfaithful, MIL says she was.

So, who do you believe????? Lets go with neither of them, since both have proved to be liars at one time or another.

Well, H treats me better, but he still calls her.

I wish I confronted. I want this behind me.

Just been very busy.

Good to see your still with us.
Ive been busy too.
I am really tired.

I think my marriage is over.

I don't know if I want to try anymore

Yesterday, I had the feeling that I get when I need to re-evaluate my life. I have not been able to do what I need to do yet. I need time alone, to think.

I don't know if I want to try to save my marriage.

I don't know if I have the desire to work on my marriage

Tonight was the last straw. Boards are 14 days away, I need every spare moment I can get to study.

Last week, H says to me, I made plans for us to go up north camping. I told him, I need to study, besides, the kids have stuff every weekend. He knows that. He just called me and now says it is for a softball tournament. He always misleads things. I am sick and tire of if. And yes, I corrected him on what he said last week.

My MIL will help me out. There are times she frustrates me to no end. When it comes to important things, she helps me out.

Hi Sue
Sorry to hear this but I do understand.
Does he not realize how important your boards are for both of you?

My gosh you think he would be bending over backwards to help you.

Why are they so selfish?????????????????
I don't think I will ever understand what goes through a mans head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hope you can study this weekend.
Are you going w/him?Or is he going to stay home and help out?

Talk to you soon.

He left this morning before I got up. I just got back from taking daughter to dance class. OS has soccer at 4, it is a 1/2 hour drive to get there. I also have laundry to do so the kids will have clean clothes for school next week. I may nto have time to get to the center today. I have to plan an hours drive time, 1/2 hour each way. By the time I get there today, it will be 1:00. I have to leave by 2 or 2:30 so I can get back for the dogs and get OS ready for soccer. We have to leave by 3. I can't get much done in that hour. I might study at home today. Maybe I will go after soccer. MIL says she will keep the kids

H did ask if he could get a room, do I want to drive up? It is a 3 hour drive, so that would be 6 more hours of lost study time, beside, the center is here in the cities, not up north.

Everything is about him, everything centers around him. He can't give up two lousy weeks to help me. He thinks the questions I will get are easy. I have a book of possible questions, or types of questsion to expect. I'm going to pick out some that I expect to be on the test. He said he will answer them. He thinks he will get them right

I am tired of being married to a spoiled selfish child. I have three children to raise, I didn't expect to have to raise him too.

I am sorry Sue.
Do not think your feelings of aneger and resenment are unreasonable or abnormal. I came to realize I cannot block those myself anymore, consciously or unsconsciously. Without going thru them I will never be able to really confront my M situation either.

I certainly wish you success with the boards, more so with all the hoops you have to go with finding time to study.

I don't know how you operate, but I do tend to achieve most and get most out of myself under unavoidable deadlines.

My H is going for a 3 day business trip tomorrow. I just learned about it from my D, not from him. He knew I wanted to join him as my getaway. Yet he avoided teling me again.

Well I am angry and disappointed, even though I understand that this time he will be with another coworker, so I couldn't really use his hotel room anyway.

Sue, I think I am enabler by bending over backwards myself - even if supposedly the A is over. My M is not back yet and I doubt H wants anything different than status quo. I, on the other hand, desipte horrible sorrow, am getting tired of the situation, I feel used and disrespected and I get ready to move on.
Separation seems to be less stressful alternative and practically not more difficult.
See you on my thread after you are done with your boards.
Best of luck to you.
FBOW

Hi Sue

I cant believe he left.I thought he was disabled?How can he play ball?
Sorry I just had to say that.I am just so tired of selfish men.
Remember I deal w/one on a daily basis.
Its all him and what he needs and wants.
You would think he could think of me just a little.
I guess that is just to much to ask right?
I am so sorry you are in this place once again.
I'm here if you need to vent.
Just let me have it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I can take it.
Try and have a good weekend anyway.

I'm going to see what studying I can get done here tonight. The center is closed. I really wanted to study there. They have some really awesome focus study books. I will be able to get some time in tomorrow at the center.

His actions today told me that I do not matter, what I want does not matter. That I am not important.

Did I tell you the rings came off? They did. I took them off and they are not ever going back on.

One reason being, the ring he bought me last December is not the ring I wanted. 2, when I feel like I am in a marriage, then I will wear a ring, but it will have to be the ring I want. I won't settle for anything else. But I don't see it happening because I have no desire to work on my marriage. I dont' care. I am so hurt by his lack of care and support about my upcoming boards. I worked hard to get to where I am at, and I am so worried I will fail. I don't feel prepared.

I will go and study now. I will only be back to vent if it is distracting my studies.

I just came to the realization I am capable of hate.

I HATE MY HUSBAND

All I ever wanted was a good marraige, someone who loves me, cares about me, and respects me. I have a horrible headache right now.

Why did I ever give him a second chance? I was happy and content when it was just me and the boys. We were doing fine. Why wasn't I selfish then, and tell him "no", I don't trust you.

After I adjusted to him leaving, and I started a life for myself with the boys, I was happy. I didn't need him or care if he was around. Why did I take him back? He is the source of my misery.

Hi Sue

You have every right to hate him.I know this is probably not a good thing for me to say.At times I feel the same here.
I feel like a nobody to him.
You are very smart and WILL pass your boards do not let his actions make you think different.I know that you know this but at times you just need to hear it from someone else.

I am going to leave you an e-mail check it if you have a chance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll tell you what, I'm betting you will feel so much better once you work up the nerve to verbalise your feelings to him. Right now you are carrying it around like a sick cancer in your gut, and it's eating away at you Sue. You will so much better when you've transferred the power to yourself. It is possible, if you play your cards right.

You are a smart girl Sue, don't let him get the best of you.

I'm not magic, and I can't give you a fairy tale life. Right now I almost wish I could.

I do know that no matter what bad happens to us, if we turn to God, he can take the bad and turn it to good for us if we stay focused on doing the right things.

I believe you will, I expect fully that you will. I have watched you for too long, seen you make wise choice after wise choice. Sometimes (and this seems to be one of them) we are ready to say the heck with being the one that is dependable and always does the right thing, but even if you feel that way, you will still be strong enough to do what you feel is the right thing.

You have friends praying for you. You have a cheering section. I believe I know what you are and who you are, and the person I see is a winner.

Somewhere in the heavens is a loving God. Often it seems he is far away, and we wonder if he even knows about us, let alone if he helping us. I tell you that he does know you and he is helping. He gives just the right amount of help so you can get the maximum amount of growth from what is happening to you. Don't let down now when you have come so far. Don't give up.

I, like everyone else here is waiting to see how close to the top you are on your test scores. I don't doubt for a moment that you will pass.

I wish you had more help, I wish you were getting the support you deserve. Since your H isn't helping, count on God to fill in the gaps. I know in my own life that whenever I have done all that I could do to reach a worthy goal, he has always made up what I lacked to see me reach it. He will do that for you too.
{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}

SS

I did verbalize some of me feelings to him. As usual, it didnt' matter.

I decided to not focus my energy on being mad at him. I have to focus it on what matters. ME. It takes too much energy to be mad anyways. I was exhausted.

I dont' have the energy to put into my marriage right now. If I did, I would get upset.

H thinks he can pass the test. I have access to questions, not NCLEX questions, but questions to help you prepare for you weak areas, I told him he can take the test and we will see how he does. He thinks it will be easy to pass. He thinks all a nurse needs to know is how to take vitals and do med dosage caculations. If that was all I needed to know, then I would not be worried.

Well, I'm off to the center, thanks for being there for me.

((((SUE)))

That hateful feeling is a huge red flag. As soon as you are done and have passed your boards, sweetie, confront, implement Plan B because we all know you've worked your [censored] off at Plan A and its obviously not doing a damn thing.

DO NOT FEEL GUILTY ABOUT BEING HUMAN.

Hi Sue
Just letting you know I'm still here for you.
You have been such a big help to so many,now let us be there to be help and support for you.

Normally I would be upset about my MIL interfering and taking the kids for the night, especially on a school night. Tonight, I am all in favor of it.

H call me and says "Talk to your F****** Brats".
The kids were screaming and crying in the background. H puts on OS, he's crying because dad won't let them go to grandmas after he said they could go. He was also crying because dad would only give him a slice of bread to eat with his medicine. He is taking Stratera, and it has to be taken with meals because it is very upsetting to the stomach. Meals means meals, not a slice of bread. H did not feed them dinner, and told them they had to go to bed.

He caught the kids throwing rocks at a tree. H's car was under the tree. One rock hit the car.

I agree with H grounding the kids, I agree with H saying they cannot go to grandmas, I do not agree with H calling them what he did, and I do not agree with not giving them dinner or just offering OS only a slice of bread.

In this case, I am glad MIL took the kids for the night. Even thougth they were told they cannot go. They need to be apart. H was the one who changed his mind and said they could now go.

OS said none of them heard what dad said (I didn't tell him what he said, I only asked if he heard dad's part of the conversation) before he put OS on the phone.

I called H, to see if he calmed down some, I told him that I didn't like what he said, and I didn't agree with him not giving them dinner. He fails to realize that both come under the form of abuse. One is verbal abuse, the other is neglect.

It would never even occur to my H to refer to his children that way. NEVER.

I can't wait until you get to really hit this guy between the eyes.

I don't know what has happened to him.

When we met, (I know everyone one puts their best foot foward in the beginning), but he was good to me, good to the OS, sometime after the second one was born, he changed. Then he seemed to change back, and now, he is well, you see what he is.

He is not the man I fell in love with.

Sue
What happened at your house tonight is the very reason I quit the best job I ever had(i am in no way suggesting this i know your situation is different than mine was)
I feared my kids were in danger while with thier own father.I do not believe my H has ever forgiven me for doing that.It was a long time ago but do I ever know the frustration you are feeling right now.
Sometimes you wonder who is the child and who is the adult.

Ginger,

I don't wonder who the child is and who the adult is. I KNOW

When I made my decision to go back to school, I didn't think it would be like this.

I really thought he could handle it.

At first it went well, as I started to see it deteriorate, I knew I had to continue, because I was thinking if we divorce, I have to be able to support the kids. I also knew my job was limited.

Today, we got word, they are closing another satellite office. The last one. Soon, they will start in our dept. I know it. I used to be middle level, I'm now the lowest level because of job elimination.

I know Sue that you have looked ahead you are so smart to do that.
I was only 27 w/three kids and all I thought of was them.If I could do it over I would not have done what I did.I would have looked more to my future.But in your 20's you just don't think of the future.
Now I think of the future to much and I think that is one reason it is so hard for me to leave.
I am so afraid of being alone and don't even know why.

I'm doing a little bit better today, the last couple of days I have been crying alot. All over the A, and the disrespect, mistreatment, everything. When I have more time, I will go into more detail.

Right now, I keep getting a caged feeling, and I know I need to think

Hi Sue.
Ive been thinking about you all day.
Its ok to cry you know that right?
I think it was you that told me it cleanses the soul <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I'm here for you if you need me.

Dear Sue,
((((Hug))))
Crying was OK with me as long as it did not drain energy I needed for usual, everyday tasks.
Vent your sorrow and frustration here maybe instead if it protects and preserves more of your stamina needed for the studying.
I keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
FBOW

Hi Sue,
Thinking about you this afternoon. Wondering what you are thinking about......wondering how you are. Wishing that bonfire was tonight, and cerri could get you aside, and talk to you alone for a few minutes. I wish I knew just what you were thinking - it would make it easier to know what to say. As you know, sometimes when people hurt, it is hard to help.

I'm doing a little bit better today, the last couple of days I have been crying alot. All over the A, and the disrespect, mistreatment, everything. When I have more time, I will go into more detail.

Right now, I keep getting a caged feeling, and I know I need to think

You have been here, in this part of the plan too long. You have seen some good times, but you have worked too hard, with too little return for far too long. We knew this might happen, we worried for you all along.

What has changed really? He is about the same, it is the time, and the drain on you that have given you this state of mind.

I can't really ask you (in all fairness) to do anyting more. When you think about things, keep your goals in mind. I can't say I known them all, but you have goals for yourself, and your children outside of school, and your upcoming job search. The school, and the job are just means to help you reach those other goals. Keep the most important things in mind when you decide.

Still praying for you.

SS

Nothing has really changed.

I know I have been in this too long, and I knew it when I started that it would be longer than what I should really do.

You know, you can put yourself on hold for only so long, and then, it starts in on you again.

I think what has made it very difficult, is it looks like we are making some progress, and then I find out they are making plans to go on a trip, or a concert. He does not make plans for us to do this. I fully understand that most A, end once exposed to the light of day. As long as they have the secrecy, they have no reason to end it.

It bothers me that this has gone on for so long, longer than what I was aware of. The more I search, the more I find out. This has been in existance for my whole marriage, maybe longer. So, what is wrong with her? Why would she do this? This was going on when our youngest was born, she is now 4 years old, almost 5. I made this discovery last spring or so. So, all I can ask is, why did he marry me, if he was not going to end his relationship with her. I'm sure it is because, she is more fun, after all, their relationship does not have the reality of bills, laundry, housework, chilren,

I recently found out, she moved out of her parents, and lives on her own. I don't know if she has a roommate or anything like that.

It was really easy to find out. H and I have shared cell phones now. He stopped calling her old number, and this other number showed up too frequently. So, I did a reverse look up and it is listed to her.

I know I talk a lot sometimes about practical things.......I want you to know I am sorry too. That I understand there is a lot of hurt, and pain. It just doesn't do me much good to talk about that, because I can't do much about it for you. It bothers me, I care - but I don't know what to do.

So, is it time?
Or will you bury it for another month?

I know what your heart says - but you have a head on your shoulders too.

Cancel his rservations and tell him "I canceled your reservations, I didn't want you to go with her." and walk away?

What are you thinking?

SS

Hi Sue
Just wanted to let you know that I am still here following everything that happens.
I care for you,I hurt with you,I cry with and for you.You are special,you are an incredible woman.
I just want you to know that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sue, sometimes your posts just break my heart. I wish happiness for you everytime I read them.

He doesn't deserve you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

He's the one you need to be asking these questions, but I'm sure by now you don't expect a straight answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ September 12, 2003, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: findingmywayback ]

Hi,

Today is better. Probably the Zoloft. I started taking them.

Last night, H had me angry at him. He calls me on my cell phone at the study center, (before I left, and yesterday, and Friday, I told him, I was going to be there all day, they closed at 9:30). He calls and wants to know where I am, it is almost 8 pm and the kids need dinner. What is the matter with him that he could not make the kids dinner for them? I asked him on Friday if he minded if I spent the weekend at the center.

Give me a break. When I got home, I had to take out the trash, wash the dishes, clean up after the dog, help OS with homework. I wonder why I'm stressed out. H, the whole time, is sitting on the computer playing EQ. I asked him if he could give daughter her Iron supplement, he could not take time out to do that.

HI Sue
My dear friend,been there done all of that.
I feel for you so.
Right now there is only H and I at home.We gave baby back on Thurs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am tired I get up early for work and have a hard time sleeping at night,it does not help that H wakes me up everynight when he comes home.
The other morning when getting ready for work and pouring my much needed coffee the handle falls off the coffee pot spilling coffee all over the counter top the floor and me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Ouch it was hot.I did not have time to clean it up before work so I put a towel on it.H calls me at work and asks if I spilt coffee on the floor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I tell him what happened.I think well he will clean it up while I am at work.That was Sat morning the floor still needs to be mopped.Guess what I will be doing on my day off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know what you are going through Sue.
I am truly sorry you have to deal with this.But I am still thinking of you every day and your up coming boards.Hang in there just a little longer.

I would have pulled the plug and if he complained then I would have hit him over the head with a cast iron fry pan. I'd probably be in jail now.

It makes me ashamed to be a guy sometimes.

Surely God has a place in heaven for you gals that try so hard and get so little help.

And, after you get there, put in a good word for me, I'm trying hard too.

SS

Hi Sue,

Maybe it would be empowering to plan out what steps you plan to take and when. I know I keep asking, but when are your boards??? I'm so anxious for this sitch to change....I know it's just draining you. hugs....thinking about you.

Sue-

Just dropping in here. First off, from the bon fire, I can't get W to POJA agree for me to come and get that wood that you have at home. Try as I might she doesn't want it. I wish I could so I could smack your H upside his head while I am there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

A thought I had for you. Have you considered going to a BAN meeting? I just went to one last night and it really helps me put things in perspective. I find it very helpful.

So how about this for an idea, cancel H's plans to go out of town with OW and book flights to Orlando so you can do the MB weekend? That way he can still take his trip but then he gets the added bonus of spending time with his lovely W.

Hang in there

Hi all,

Boards are this Friday 9/19. I am so worried I will fail. I am changing my hours on Thursday so I work during the day, that way I will be home and into bed early on Thursday. I already told H, that I am not getting up during the middle of the night to let a dog out. Either he does it, or he needs to learn to take her food and water away by 8pm. (Which I will be home to make sure it happens). Friday, MIL is taking kids to school plus one daycare child. (Kids lost busing, so I give a girl a ride to school along with the boys). I plan to get up, get my good luck breakfast and go to the testing center.

Plan for future. I have written my resume, applied for jobs. Limited number of new grad jobs. One hospital called and said I was around number 60 on the waiting list. (Better to be on a list than not at all.). End of this month, it will be time to send another application to a hospital I applied at in early summer. (They retain apps for 3 months). This weekend, the hospitals on my list, will receive an application, next week nursing homes, week after that, agencies.

Plan for marriage. Once I am financially able to provide for me and the kids, I confront, if he fails to end it, or says he cannot, I implement Plan B. Call a lawyer, put in place Child custody and child support. How long will I do Plan B, I don't know. I'd like to be fair to him and give him 6 months, after all, I've had over a year to deal with this, for him, it will be a surprise. Plan B will end, when he gives her up, and agrees to counseling, or when I've decided I don't want him to come back and file. I know once I file, there is no turning back for me.

I told H, once, a long time ago, back in the dating stages, that I am a very tolerant woman, don't abuse it. When I get fed up with the crap, I walk and don't look back. When I do that, it is over and there is no more chances.

SS- the cast Iron frying pan, my brother inherited it. So, all I have is teflon coated.

STTSI, thats okay on the wood. But, if everyone wants to come over and use it to hit H over the head with, thats fine with me. We have a fire place we can burn it in.

On a brighter note, sons soccer team made the Jamboree. They play this saturday. Yesterday, H calls me at work, wants to know if I mind if he goes to Duluth with his friends JT and his gf C. I told him I minded, I wanted him home and we cannot afford it. He tried to tell me, that it will not cost that much. I reminded him, that last weekend cost 100.00, we cannot afford another 100.00 weekend, especially with him on disability. Today, after I got the call from the soccer coach informing us that they made the Jamboree, I called H. I told him, that he can't go to Duluth now because of this. He commented, Oh!, well, I will have to figure something out. He already told them he would go. I'm not surprised, he does this sort of stuff all the time.

Sue
First I will say I understand that you are worried about boards,but you are a very strong,smart,couragus woman why are you selling your self short in this area?You will pass and probably with flying colors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Put your confidence where it is needed right now,on the test.

Thats great about the soccer,and your H will wake up one day and wonder why his children do not have a relationship w/him.Its sad they can not see what they are doing.He is letting the most wonderful time of his life pass him by for a weekend w/friends.One thing I have learned.........when the kids grow up,they are grown up....you can not get back the time of them being small.This may sound silly and of course we all know they grow up what I am saying is they are precious non replaceable years.Once they are gone they are gone forever.

Sue you are a wonderful person.You deserve the best that life has to offer you.I know that you will survive,I'm not so sure about your H.

If my H does not change, I picture him going the same route as his dad. Maybe not as many marriages, but then again, you never know.

I am wife number two. From what MIL says, it sounds like he treated W#1 the same. Of course, this information is coming out now, and not before. If we divorce, I see, him remarrying, that one won't last. His dad has been married 4 or 5 times.

My Dad has been married 3 times since my mom died.He always complained about my mom and her short comings.Seems to me that she was not the problem other wise I think he would still be married to wife #2.
Some people are just never happy,or satisfied,they are just way to selfish.They take and take but want to give nothing in return.

Sue,
You went to school, you studied, and you are praying. Not much else you can do.

I'll add my prayers to yours, and I believe you will do well. I really do.

Just do it like you do lots of other things. Do the best you can, and don't worry about it.

Isn't that about right?

SS

Well, boards are done.

I will not know the results until next week. They told me to check on Tuesday. I have a job interveiw on Thursday. It is a weekend position. It is a start. There was not too many new grad positions open. I figure, if I have to start out working PT, then I will. Experience is experience. You can't get it by waiting for the perfect job to open up.

I'm also talking to a friend about working for him PT. We need the money. It is doing telemarketing for his company. My studen loan payment starts in Novemeber. If I fail the NCLEX, I need to bring in extra income some how. If I pass the test, and get the job, then I will not need to the the telemarketing. I do know of someone else who could use the job. Starting next week I am going to fine tune my resume, and mail them out once I know I passed.

I will let you know once I know. At least, right now it is over. If I fail, 90 more days to study. If I pass, then I'm done, and life can resume.

I've got my fingers crossed for ya Sue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue my dear friend,
I know that you passed don't think any other way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Have a fun restful weekend.
Look forward to talking to you again real soon.

I PASSED!!!!!!!

Congrats Sue! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HoFS

Am I actually going to get to be the first one to say congratulations???? We never doubted you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

YIPPEEEEEEEEEEE! Star doing the snoopy dance....yes yes yes! I never doubted you! One step at a time chere!

Yessss!
I am SOOOO proud of you! You can DO anything you set your eyes on!
You encourage me.
FBOW

Hi Sue,
I am so happy for you.

Many prayers have been answered, but I know you had to do your part too.

Congratulations.
(and that's an understatement!)

SS

Now, I have to wait for the State Board of Nursing to send me my "Official" notification of passing and my lisence, then I can work as a RN

How long does it take?
Do they send money too? That would be a nice touch.

SS

We are told it can take up to 4 weeks to receive our license from the state. Everyone I talked to said that they received theirs within a week of testing.

So, hopefully this week sometime.

One of my classmates said she will put in a good word for me at her work.

Freedom for you is coming right along - freedom to choose what you want. Up till now you have been running in place.

One of my classmates said she will put in a good word for me at her work.

Duh, of course she would, she knows you.

Just teasing, have a good week, I'll be gone on and off all week.

I hope you are more relaxed, and that you get some rest. I don't mean sleep, I mean rest from the constant worry about if you will make it or not. I don't think you need to worry about the job, that will come. Maybe you can get on at a DR's office and work 8 to 4. How would that be?

You have my permission to relax a little bit.

We all need it sometimes - take it.

SS

[ September 22, 2003, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi Sue,

I have never posted to you but have been reading your story. I am so happy for you!!! Congratulations. You deserve it!!! And BTW, I truly admire your strength and resolve. Things are looking up!!!!

Thanks - I think I will do that, Relax.

It seems so unreal. I printed it off, I keep looking at it, as if it is some unreal dream. I am on cloud nine right now. I don't think anything could bring me down right now.

I PASSED, I PASSED, I PASSED, I PASSED. Isn't this the best news possible. We need a icon that jumps up and down. That is how I feel right now.

Thank you to all of you.

Thank you for helping to keep me sane during this time.

Thank you for helping me stay focused on my goal

Thank you for all the congrats

Thank you for all the words of encouragement.

You guys have been a big help. If I did not find MB, I don't know if I would have made it. You guys have been there for me during my lowest times, my highetst times.

Sue
You know that I have been gone so here I sit to get cought up.
I am so very happy for you.I knew you would do it.
As I read all who congratulate you before me for some reason the tears just started to come.
I think I am feeling your relief and happiness,
you my friend are going to be a wonderful nurse.If I ever get sick I will fly to your state so you can be my nurse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

YOU PASSED!!!!YOU PASSED!!!!YOU PASSED!!!!Good for you.You are now an official RN!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ September 22, 2003, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]

Sue - I'm sorry I've been away for so long... but I gotta tell ya, what a great thing to read when I finally do get back here!!! CONGRATS!!! I knew you would do it!! I have thought of you often, and am thrilled that you achieved your goal!! YOU GO GIRL!!!

I will write again soon!
-mac

Sue, this is a copy of SoCAl article:
Lengthy, but you might save it just in case...
FBOW:

Nursing recruitment gets creative
Patient ratio law puts hiring into high gear, with heavy hospital competition and a larger number of perks.
By MAYRAV SAAR
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

It has been a buyer's market for nurses for several years, but the hiring frenzy is getting more intense.

A new nurse-to-patient ratio law will require hospitals to staff at least one nurse for every six patients in general surgery by Jan. 1, and medical centers across the state are offering everything from free tuition to new cars to lure more nurses to their hospitals.

The law - the first of its kind in the nation - is expected to make conditions safer for patients: People who have common surgeries in hospitals with poor nurse staffing levels have up to a 31 percent increased chance of dying, according to a study published last year in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

The trouble for hospitals is that less than half of the 2.7 million licensed nurses in the country have chosen to work in medical centers, according to SEIU Nurse Alliance, a union for nurses.

About 5,000 nurses graduate from community colleges and the state university system every year, but to meet the demand, California will need to see that number double, said Jan Emerson, spokeswoman for the California Healthcare Association, which represents hospitals.

CHA had opposed the ratio, saying that hospitals could not magically create nurses in the middle of a shortage. But with the ratio deadline looming and no break in the long-running nursing shortage in sight, hospitals are getting creative.

Nurses are now being offered higher pay, better pension plans and more clout.

"Obviously compensation is always an issue, but I would say the thing we focused on is respect," said Ron Salzberg, executive director of human resources for Saddleback Memorial Hospital Medical Center, which has revamped its nurse recruitment and retention programs. "Nurses need to feel respected and valued."

Nurses also need to feel a sense of workplace pride, and so hospitals have been advertising themselves to nurses as quality institutions that give patients good care. When UCI Medical Center received a "Magnet status" designation - a distinction by the American Nurses Association that recognizes excellence in nursing - the hospital proclaimed it proudly on its Web site this summer and across its marquee.

The acceptance process is rigorous: It took UCI two years to strengthen nursing research and to make other improvements to its nursing program before it received the designation. But the improvements made for the award helped improve conditions at the hospital as well as nurses' morale, said Lisa Reiser, chief nursing officer at UCI.

The hospital has seen the nurse turnover rate drop from 14.4 percent in 2000 to 11 percent in 2002 - and 9.5 percent so far this year. Nationally, the nurse turnover rate is between 13 percent and 20 percent.

Only three hospitals in California have received Magnet status, but nurses said they expect more hospitals will pursue the designation.

Sue Cannon, a nurse at Western Medical Center in Santa Ana, said she and her colleagues have considered proposing that their hospital apply for the designation.

"Magnet status is a big lure," she said.

Of course, a decent paycheck and perks don't hurt.

"We negotiated a wonderful contract, and we were able to pay nurses based on years of experience," said Maureen Berry, an Emergency Department nurse at UCI Medical Center and a representative for the California Nurses Association union.

Tenet Healthcare, which owns Western Medical Center and eight other Orange County hospitals, has poured millions of dollars into recruitment, with incentives that range from signing bonuses to new cars, said David Langness, spokesman for Tenet.

These kinds of distinctions and incentives could help draw more nurses, but what if there are no nurses from which to draw? Community colleges and the California State University system report waiting lists of more than 100 people long for their nursing programs. Hospitals have started offering scholarships and have even funded instructors, so more men and women can get through the programs.

In Southern California, Tenet has also spent $1.7 million in the past three years to fund nurse education and nursing school scholarships. Saddleback Memorial Medical Center in Laguna Hills has loan-forgiveness programs, a new high school recruitment project, plans for an ad campaign at local malls and scholarships for would-be nurses. The hospital has also spent $80,000 in the past two years funding an instructor at Saddleback College who can teach 12 new nurses each year - all of whom are introduced to Saddleback Memorial.

"Those students will do their clinical work here, which puts us in a good position because they get to know us," said Karen Ladley, vice president of patient-care services and chief nursing officer of Saddleback Memorial. "So we feel they will be more likely to come work for us."

The first graduates of that program will join the workforce in December, and current nurses said they will be in higher demand and will be able to expect more favorable work conditions than ever before.

"It is the greatest thing to happen for nurses in several decades," UCI's Berry said. "We're going to be able to give patients the kind of care we were trained to give."

FBOW - thanks - impressive article. I may have to move to California. Hubby wants to.

I'm still flying high from passing. I don't know when I will come down to reality.

Sue
Dont come down you deserve to be up there for a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And as for a move to California,come on over I would love to have you over here closer to me.
And job oppertunity in the nursing field is great from what I understand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ September 24, 2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

You are the only reason I keep coming back to the MB board.

ABSOLUTELY FANTABULOUS SUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HUZZAH! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

FBOW - thanks - impressive article. I may have to move to California. Hubby wants to.

That would be nice, then you could have a bonfire, and see if cerri comes to it. If she doesn't, WE can tease HER.

I'm still flying high from passing. I don't know when I will come down to reality.

Why not just stay there for a couple of years to make up for the last two that were down?

Can you think of a better idea?

SS

I think I will stay up there. I like it.

I had my first interview as a Graduate RN. I think it went well. I will be surprised if I get it. The only reason I say this, is because she told me I was the last one to be interviewed. I believe if I was hired, I would have been told on the spot. I know of others who interviewed for this hospital and they were told on the spot.

I know I am qualified, so I will be considered for other positions, I have to keep watching the postings and let them know I am interested.

Hi Sue
Good to talk to you.
Stay positive ok. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Remember it will be thier loss not to hire you not yours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Congradulations Sue!!!!

I told you I keep up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Whooo-hooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

much love and admiration!,,
tsc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hi sue.....again....I am so happy for you. Hmmmm....a move to California huh? Might not be a bad ideas considering who ISN"T in California.

Hey Sue! Just a belated congratulations!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I may have missed it in an earlier post (if I did, please forgive - my mind's just been on overdrive for a little while), but do you mind my asking what area you are looking into? Hospital, OR, ER, Dr's office, etc?

And if you go to CA, might I highly suggest San Diego !?!?!? Lot's of medical down there, and it is absolutely the most beautiful city I have seen. Something for everyone - nature, shopping, great food, festivals, and most importantly gorgeous sunsets. The weather down there isn't too bad either! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sue, I'm glad to see you so happy with yourself and your accomplishment. You have a great strength that I admire. Here's to you!!

Congratulations dear Sue!!!

Another good reason to have some champagne tomorrow when I'm home post-call.

See I dared venturing over here to the scary JFO-place just to check on you.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am so proud of you. You have overcome so much hardship to reach your goal. You are truly amazing!!!

Now...one tip for interviews...Anne Taylor suit...and chin up girl...razzle, dazzle them!!!

Love

Hi Sue!!

How are you?

Look I'm a poet,and didn't know it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TSC, LIT, IP, and everyone else.

Thank you.

I ahve given specialy thougth, but right now, I want to get in somewhere, get some experience behind me, then think about specialy areas.

These are the specialty areas I have considered, L&D, Post Labor/Postpartum, Pediatric Oncology, Burn unit, Rehab. I did my preceptorship at a Rehab Hospital. I loved it. No time to sit on the buns there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As a new Grad, I will take what I can get for the experience, even if it means working in a Long Term Care Facility. You cannot buy experience.

Hi, I'm swamped at work so I have to be quick.

Have not heard about the job yet. I have another application almost ready to mail today, plus I'm getting 10 more ready.

Something will have to come through.

H has been good. He is being affectionate and stuff. So, the question is, does he want something (which has been past pattern), or is he finally realizing what a wonderful wife he has? I can wait and see. Right now, I want to find work in my new field

I vote he finally realized what a wonderful W he has <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know something will come through for you.
You have worked long and hard for this.

Hi, I'm swamped at work so I have to be quick.

Quick, call in the Army Corps of Engineers, they are good at draining swamps !!!!!

Oh, wait, you just mean you are busy.

I ought to pay more attention, sometimes I act male. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just checking in, and I see you are still up more than down. You will get that job, I would bet before DEC 1st. Shall we start a pool?

You don't say much about the kids lately - hows the little princess? How's her mom?

SS

I wonder if Sue is making some big decisions right now. Wouldn't surpprise me.

Hey Sue lots of us care, just so you know.

SS

Hi Y'all

Just wanted to let you know I'm still around.

I have not heard about the job. They posted another position, I called and let them know I was interested. So, we will see. The HR rep did comment on how this year, there is not as many positions as last year. The economy has alot to do with it. Why hire new grads when the experienced ones want more hours.

Kids, are doing great. OS, is trying out for Goalie on his Squirt team. first year as a squirt.

MS is still a mite, he will be a squirt next year

(Of course I think they are squirts year round)

Princess, well, she is still the princess. We were watching Princess Diaries, she wants to change her name to Mia, just like Princess Mia.

As far as the WH, right now, who cares. I don't know what Plan I am in. I don't know if I want to be in a Plan. I am tired of how he thinks the world revolves around him. I am supposed to drop everything, rearrange my life to suit him so he can do what he wants. He has total disregard to me and that I just spent the last 3 years of my life working towards a goal that I have wanted since I have been 13 years old. I wonder if he is jealous of my accomplishments.

Besides looking for a nursing job, I am looking for a part time job, incase I cannot find a nursing job. We need the income. Since he has been in the accident, our savings is almost empty. The difference in what we need for bills and expenses, from what we take in I could make up with a part time job, unless a nursing position comes through.

I am sick and tired of my life. Just when I think things will start to get better, they don't.

Sue
I feel just like you.I am sick and tired of my life.Just when I thought I was getting better I have a major set back.I don't even know what plan to do either,I think it is time for my H to plan A me to death.

I know you will get a good job.Try and stay postive,I know it must be hard at times,I feel your frustration believe me I do.Even though I am far away I hope you can feel me sending you just a little bit more strength for one more day.Stay strong my friend,the reward will come.

Hi Sue,
thank you for your note. I am also mainly lurking recently, as I have nothing positive to share. I am too very tired of current situation but I have only myself to blame for the indecision.
We've been hanging around here quite a while, so see you around and I wish you and myself good luck, more stamina and a miracle.
FBOW

I have another interview lined up for 10/22, same hospital, different position.

Mailed off two more applications forms. One for a substitute nurse in my kids school district, the other for another hospital.

I think H is on anti-d's, otherwise, it might be anti-anxiety. I have two drug books, I cannot find one of them, the other is at work. So, I don't recall if it is. I will look it up later.

Yesterday I lost it with H. There were plenty of LB's for everyone. We had been arguing since the night before, and he said the wrong thing. He said I was "stupid". I lost it, and let him have it. And right now, I don't regret it. And I probably won't regret it either. Things are fine now, no hostility, it is like we never argued.

Gott go paint storm window.

I keep hoping and praying that he will turn around and be what he is supposed to be.

You don't say much about your feelings lately, and that is OK. I try to guage how you are by the tone of your posts, and right now you are in getting things done mode - at least it looks like that.

Mostly you need to know that we care, so I will say it again.
We care.
I understand that you know that, but it doesn't hurt to say it again.

Praying you get the job that would be best for you and the kids.

SS

Hi Sue
I just wanted you to know that I am still lurking too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I should not say this but I will,I do not regret you LBing for what your H said,he has no right to tell you things like that.You are not stupid.

Definately not stupid and it had to stick in your craw to have your WH say something like that to you. Don't regret it, just move beyond it.

Still thinking of you almost everyday, Sue.

Thanks everyone. I still don't regret losing it. As far as I am concerned he was way out of line, and there i a difference between doing a Plan A and being a doormat. (I've never done the doormat role well)

I am mostly in the doing mode. Too much to do before the snow falls and/or temps drop. Some things cannot be done after the temps drop. Too hard and too cold.

Trying to find work so I can have some sort of financial independence or closer to it.

Mojodiva how is school? Marriage doing okay with you in Nebraska and H and kids in Guam?

Bought the kids halloween costumes last night. In the past I used to make them. I could be more creative. No time this year. I also, could not think of how to create one from what we have. I think I went brain dead.

Kids are playing Go Fish on the floor. They are so cute. The boys let Lil Princess join in. Well, gotta go. Have lots to do today

Hi Sue
You sound happy today.
Enjoy the kids they grow up way to fast.

My H union went on strike last night.Hope it does not last to long.I dont need anymore stress right now.

Hope to chat w/you soon.
Take care.

Sue,
No, we were in a false recovery. I did not demand counseling, I tried to do things the wrong way- no plan, no boundaries, and I did the doormat thing. Last Wednesday I was called by my husband for him to confess that he had been caught by my son kissing a 20 year old woman in my home- the whole thing is nuts and you can catch up at my online journal. He had to hit rock bottom before realizing he was out of control and needed help.

I've asked for a legal seperation during which he is to go to counseling with my children before he rotates back in April. He is saying all the right things and doing what I need him to do. I promise nothing, trying to stay positive and hope he does what needs to be done. In April he will head to Virginia while I finish school, the kids are coming to live with me. He has been smart enough to realize he has to earn my forgiveness and that I do not trust him. I pray everyday that he will see the light and do what he promises over the next two years.

Today was good- he told me he planned on seeking IC while in Virginia and going to counseling with me when he visits us each month. He is hurting, I am hurting, the kids are hurting...but it looks like he actually sees our pain now.

Wish I had better news.

Sue...wanted to bump this for you in hopes you will come back and let us know you are ok. Also wanted to give you an update on my and hubby.

My husband just began individual counseling Thursday. Its the first time he sought help. I have told him that if he continues with individual counseling for the next six months (twice a month at least) and counseling with our kids (at least once a month), I will not file for seperation and will follow him to his next duty station in Virginia.

Things are looking better, but the second he bails on counseling, it is OVER.

I'm here. Mostly in a doing role. I was out of work the other day. My back was hurting, went to chiropractor. It has been hurting for a while. I kept hoping it would go away. It is because of my knee. When I was walking off balance, my back adjusted to it. Now, that i'm walking somewhat normal, my back has been protesting. After my appt., I noticed my knee was hurting again. Probably because my weight is more evenly placed on both legs vs on leg carrying most of me.

It is probably good to fix it now, instead of after I get a job. I have another interveiw next week, I have to return a call to a nursing home, and hope for the VA to call.

Some of H's friends are coming this weekend to help with our garage roof.

As far as me, well, its been up and down. H has been disrespectful alot to me, and well, I am getting very mad about it. Many times I was ready to tell him to pack and leave.

I really don't know how much longer I can continue this. Not this way. I don't know how much he sees her, or if it is even going on any longer.

Well, hopefully, a new job will be in the works before christmas.

Mojodiva - sorry to hear about the latest development. How are you doing. I skimmed your diary. I will go back and read it more when I can. Keep up the work on the fitness program.

Thanks, Sue!

Keep interviewing your butt off!!! As soon as you get your first paycheck, you'll be able to confront and I really can't wait to see what decisions he makes. he may surprise all of us and come clean and try to rebuild your marriage. the problem I see is that he has caused so much emotional pain that you might not want him by then.
You know we are all here for you if you need to vent!

Hi Sue
Just thought I would stop by and say hello,so that you know I still am following your thread.
Good luck on the interview.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I see is that he has caused so much emotional pain that you might not want him by then. <hr /></blockquote>I know this has possibilities. I would not be surprised if it did not happen.

Not much going on. I guess the guys are not coming this weekend. Why, I don't know.

H is going to a football game on sunday. It was really nice of him to see if I mind him being gone for 4 hours. Maybe I wanted to do something. We have no time together. You know, I don't really care. I enjoy him not being there. I see my marriage slip slipping away, and I don't have any desire to stop it. Not now.

Right now, the way I feel, she can have him, she can have his overspending, disrepectful, lying ways, and I hope she is happy with it.

There is a girl I pick up from the daycare and drive to school. I don't talk to her dad often, (single dad), so I only see the side of him that he presents as a mom from the daycare. What I see in him, is a gentle, caring, respectful man. This is what I thought my husband was like. (No, I'm not going after him). When he treats me nice, I think to myself, why am I married to WS, when there are men out there who are this nice on a regular basis. I've watched men treat their wives like they are queens. I want that. Why can't I have it too.

You can have it Sue,and you should.
I think that is how we deserve to be treated like queens,after all we are the ones that keep the castle from falling apart right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stay strong Sue I know it is hard,but just hang in there a little longer.You will get the right job at the right time and then I believe all the new doors that need to open in your life will.

[ October 18, 2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]

Hey Sue,

Thanks for checking in on me. I have been following your thread as well, and am excited that you have so many opportunities. I just hope the perfect one opens up.....you deserve that so much.

And about deserving to be treated well.....Well, that's just a given. You deserve to be treated like you are loved. Like you are the most important person in the world. Like you and your family come first - as it should be.

Your opportunity and time will come, I feel sure. Sooner or later we all know what to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Best wishes, and will keep up!

LIT

Hi,

I have an inteview tomorrow, and another one on Friday.

Today is not good. I think he met with her today. He was real secretive about it. He put on the ring that he bought, she was with him when he bought it. It is supposed to be his wedding band. What is it, some sort of "marriage of the heart". Cannot be married legally, because he is married, so they are married emotionally, and exchanged rings? I know, I should not speculate. It was hard on me. He put it on, we went to the bank, then he tells me he has an appt at a credit union with a loan officer. She works at a credit union.

OMG Sue I am so sorry to read this.

I wish there was something that I could do to take this from you.It is not fair,you are so wonderful.
I will be praying for you tomorrow for your interview.

Good luck my friend.

I'm praying you find a job real soon so you can begin moving forward.

Who am I kidding. My marriage has been falling apart since day one. We had no business getting married. I questioned at the time if it was the right thing to do. I convinced myself it was, I convinced myself that he did love me.

Today, we were having lunch, he has a new planner. On the special events page, he was writing the kids birthdays down on the correct months with dates. I saw him hovering over the month of March. Then he closed it, and said he would finish it later. After 12 years, you would think he would know my birthday. He has yahoo to remind him. I know he does not know when our anniversary is. Well, at least he confirmed where I stand. He remembers his first wifes birthday. Or at least he used to.

I am so tired of being hurt. I am so tired of his lack of respect. He thinks he was supportive of my going back to school. We fought a lot of bout my being in school, until he realized I was serious, and also found out how much nurses get paid. Oh, boy, then he was all in favor of my going to school.

He wants to do a career change. I’m okay with that, except with this career, it will be much easier for him to sneak around and call it work. He can take her out to dinner and call it work. I will never know. It will be easy for him to hide some of his pay, and only deposit what he wants me to know about, and hide the rest. This is the perfect job for someone who wants to cheat.

Of course, there is something wrong with me because I want financial security, so that makes me money grubbing. Gosh, I only want enough to pay the mortgage, utilities, put food on the table, car insurance, car payment, gas, his credit card, daycare, preschool, dance and hockey. I guess I am a very selfish woman.

I know, I am no fun. He tells me all the time. So, why did he marry me, if I am so bad to be around. He never tells me he loves me, he never tells me he finds me attractive.

I am so sick of living like this. I want changes. I want someone who tells me he loves me, I want someone who appreciates me and shows it. I want someone who finds me attractive and tells me I am. Not someone who insults me, and tells me I am inadequate. He never comes right out and says it, he says it in little manipulative ways. But you know what. I know I am not inadequate. I know he is the insecure one. I am in the process of reglazing the windows for winter. I am running out of time, so I need to get it done this weekend. All he does is sit on the computer

Some days I don't know what to do. If I was able to do something today about my M, I don't know if trying to save it would have been the choice I would have made.

Right now, I am convinced he never loved me, and really does not want to be with me and he only tolerates me because of the kids. So, I ask, why do I stay with a man who does not love me and does not want to be with me. Sometimes I think I should just divorce him so he can have his freedom. I'm sure it is what he wants, he does not have the courage to come out and tell me.

For two days, I have been crying on and off. This has been very hard on me. I was doing so well at keeping it together and now, everything is falling apart.

On a happier note, another facility called and wants to set up an interview. I have not heard back on the other interviews. Budget issues might be the problem with the first one I interviewed for. At least I know I have not been turned down. I was told by the HR rep that no decision has been made yet. I would think of one of these, something will have to come through

[ October 23, 2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Sue
I feel your pain,I know why you do what you do.I just wish you did not have to put up with what you put up with.
I pray a good job will come your way soon,to help you be able to make a decision soon.I wish happiness for you.You deserve to be happy,we all do.

I just wanted you to know that you are always in my thoughts and prayers.
You are an amazing woman of power and strength and I am so glad that you have become a part of my life.

Take care my friend,and it is ok to cry sometimes its all we have left,our tears.

Good news.- I have a job as a nurse. It is part time weekends. I start in November. They cannot make it official until my references check out.

It is in a long term care facility. It is a start. At least I will be a start to a new beginning

Congrats on the job!

I'm sorry to hear about your H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hi Sue,
I realized we use this forum for lots of things, but since it is called Marriage Builders, perhaps it is time to address that again on your thread.

At this point, knowing your H's history and all the things he has done, I wouldn't blame you if you want to walk away right now. That is always your choice - but realize this - you can do anything you want to do. If economic factors still need to be taken into account, they won't for much longer.

The big question here is "what does Sue want?" We'll help once you know, but you get to choose, and that is both freedom and slavery. Can we talk a little bit about some of this?

Who am I kidding. My marriage has been falling apart since day one. We had no business getting married. I questioned at the time if it was the right thing to do. I convinced myself it was, I convinced myself that he did love me.

I have seen enough to know that many times you KNEW that he loved you. That part I am sure of.

I am not excusing what he is doing, not at all, but that love must have existed at sometimes, or you would not be married to him. I don't believe for a minute that you would be there if you had not seen and felt that love many times. Perhaps you should have worked out your boundaries better before you married him, but you did as well as you could with what you knew at the time, and not one of us can do better than we know how to do.

Today, we were having lunch, he has a new planner. On the special events page, he was writing the kids birthdays down on the correct months with dates. I saw him hovering over the month of March. Then he closed it, and said he would finish it later. After 12 years, you would think he would know my birthday. He has yahoo to remind him. I know he does not know when our anniversary is. Well, at least he confirmed where I stand. He remembers his first wife's birthday. Or at least he used to.

This would be consistent with someone that is having an A. Perhaps it's true that you know where you stand - he is not treating you as he should, he is way, way out of bounds. The question is can something be done about it, or do you even want to do anything about it. I don't think any of us would complain at all if you walk away, but is that what you want?

I am so tired of being hurt. I am so tired of his lack of respect. He thinks he was supportive of my going back to school. We fought a lot of bout my being in school, until he realized I was serious, and also found out how much nurses get paid. Oh, boy, then he was all in favor of my going to school.

It's all about care and protection - and you don't have either one. Husbands can be taught, I am proof of that, but what does Sue want? I think all of us agree that you can't go on forever like you are. I don't know what to say about this to you. At some point you have to realize that things will never be just right to confront, and you will have to do it anyway. Is it time to talk to cerri about that part of it? I can't say, but I worry. You are sharp enough to know - if you think about it from that angle.

He wants to do a career change. I'm okay with that, except with this career, it will be much easier for him to sneak around and call it work. He can take her out to dinner and call it work. I will never know. It will be easy for him to hide some of his pay, and only deposit what he wants me to know about, and hide the rest. This is the perfect job for someone who wants to cheat.

I believe before a career change all the rest needs to be worked out - How could you take that on top of all the rest.

Of course, there is something wrong with me because I want financial security, so that makes me money grubbing. Gosh, I only want enough to pay the mortgage, utilities, put food on the table, car insurance, car payment, gas, his credit card, daycare, preschool, dance and hockey. I guess I am a very selfish woman.

People in affairs learn to shift the blame. He sounds like a very good blame shifter. If you are worried about him making trouble for you then for sure get a little nest egg first. I tend to worry more about you emotionally than economically. It's not that I think that you will ever loose it completely. I worry that someone that was a happy optimistic person won't be able to come back to that. I want your children to see that side of you more - because even if you put on a happy face, they know when you are sad and hurting.

I know, I am no fun. He tells me all the time. So, why did he marry me, if I am so bad to be around. He never tells me he loves me, he never tells me he finds me attractive.
I suppose that is part of what I was talking about. It's hard to be happy when your H is running around on you. He thinks you don't know. It is also that revision of history that makes it possible for him to justify what he is doing. Don't think it is the truth. WE know you are fun. I think that is one that will take care of it self when your H is doing what he is supposed to be doing. While we all need to look inside sometimes I think this one is mostly needs correction from the outside. In other words, I think he needs the most work here, not you.

I am so sick of living like this. I want changes. I want someone who tells me he loves me, I want someone who appreciates me and shows it. I want someone who finds me attractive and tells me I am. Not someone who insults me, and tells me I am inadequate. He never comes right out and says it, he says it in little manipulative ways. But you know what. I know I am not inadequate. I know he is the insecure one. I am in the process of reglazing the windows for winter. I am running out of time, so I need to get it done this weekend. All he does is sit on the computer

That post that Star wrote to Ginger about learning to negotiate with her H. You can do that now. Don't be afraid to say "I don't have time to do everything that needs to be done. I'll do this for you, if you will do that for me." You are a very hard working person that may be just a tad to nice. Is it time to change that?

Some days I don't know what to do. If I was able to do something today about my M, I don't know if trying to save it would have been the choice I would have made.

As always that is your choice. If you still go back and forth, you need to think some more. If every time you think about it, your answer is that it's over, then perhaps it is. Sue, I know you pray, I believe you can find the right answer to this one through prayer. There are many of us backing you up with this one.

Right now, I am convinced he never loved me, and really does not want to be with me and he only tolerates me because of the kids. So, I ask, why do I stay with a man who does not love me and does not want to be with me. Sometimes I think I should just divorce him so he can have his freedom. I'm sure it is what he wants, he does not have the courage to come out and tell me.

This is not about you - or him liking you. It is about the dynamics of an A, and the behaviors it produces. He is following the script when he talks to you. That's the way it works, and you know it. If you were ten days into this, I would tell you to plan A really well getting ready for plan B. I think if you talk to cerri, she will ask you some questions that will help you to understand what you want. Once you know what you want, it will be much easier to plan for it. The big question is still: "is it time."

For two days, I have been crying on and off. This has been very hard on me. I was doing so well at keeping it together and now, everything is falling apart.

I realize that by now that you are back being super woman and the crisis is passed. You still are keeping it together, but don't ignore the warning signs. You need resolution of this to be emotionally healthy. Today may be too soon, but forever is too long. Please pick a time table you can live with emotionally, not just financially.

On a happier note, another facility called and wants to set up an interview.......................Good news.- I have a job as a nurse. It is part time weekends. I start in November. They cannot make it official until my references check out. It is in a long term care facility. It is a start. At least I will be a start to a new beginning

Make it a new beginning all around. Start negotiating to have your needs met. Think of the timing, and consider making larger changes. Your families emotional health depends on you, and you need a solution to be healthy yourself. You are of infinite worth, don't let him tell you differently. Think some more, but perhaps you shouldn't let it go this time without some kind of action.

SS

[ October 24, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Congrats Sue.
I am a little worried about you tho.This means you will be working 7 days a week,you need to take care of you too.Please becareful as you take on this new responsibility.
When in Nov. will you start?

Thanks everyone for getting me back to being grounded. I needed it.

What do I want, I really don't know yet. I know part of the problem is, I was so focused on reaching my goal, that I was not ignoring, but putting off what needs to be done, so it is time for me to start looking at all of this.

Sometimes, Plan B sound attractive. How ready am I for it, I don't know. I have to start thinking about it.

Negotiating, I've tried. He blows me off. However, he has been rather nice on and off the last two weeks. The Vegas trip with the radio station is coming up. The one he went on last year with OW. I tried getting him to book us on that trip this year, sort of as insurance to keep them from going. It was sold out. I checked the website, it is sold out, they do have listed alternatives to joining them in Vegas. I question if a trip is booked and he is planning on going and has not told me, so he is trying to butter me up. Time will tell on this one.

It is time for me to start thinking about me, and what i want out of this marriage, or do I want to stay in this marriage.

As far as me working two jobs, been there done it, many times over the past 26 years. Ever since I have been 16, and got my first job, I have worked a second job at some point or another. Before I got pregnant with OS, I was working two jobs during that pregancy and part of the second pregnancy, when little princess was born, I was working two jobs, and again when I went back to school. Two jobs did not last long while I was in school. Got too hard to find time to work the second job. So, this will not be anything unusual for me. At least I know, once I get some experience behind me so I can look for a job that has minmum 1 year exp. I can apply. One facility had approximately 70 positions that wanted minimum 1 year exp. So, it would not be forever. I don't believe I will have to work a year. I think once I start having some experience, other places will consider me.

And yes, I have pulled myself back together and I am no longer negative, now I am determined to get my life back on track. I will start with me and what do I want.

I think I need to ground myself and reread some of the MB stuff. I'm letting the negative take over. I need to refocus on what is important.

Sue,

I thought the plan all along, was to finish your schooling, take your boards, look for a job....all the while doing your Plan A...so that when you had some financial security you could FINALLY take the steps to end the affair. You can't expect MB techniques to work during an active affair. Ending the affair is the first step towards recovery. I haven't wanted to push....but it is my sincere opinion that it is high time for Plan B. Please do what must be done to save your marriage....before all the love you have for your spouses disappears forever. Please consider making plans for this next step or recovery is never going to be possible. He doesn't negotiate because he holds all the cards...why should he. Time to take your life back chere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Star is so right, Sue!

You cannot save your marriage without confronting his affair. He has no clue you know and you have done nothing that will make him stop or choose.

You have a job now (CONGRATS)- this may be the time you need to step up and apply the principles all the way. Its time for the face off. I am worried you will make another excuse to keep putting it off and you end up even more miserable.

Please consider this!

mojo brings up an important part of this. You've never really finished to your Plan A....which of course you must do before going to B. The confrontation.....letting him know how you feel....and the exposure need to be done now. Who knows....he may respond to that before you ever have to do a Plan B....but you won't know until you try it. Hugs chere. I'm so glad you're doing so well.

Moj and Star,

You are so right. I forgot, I need to confront.

Well, I had another interview today. I might have this one. If I get it, it is full time, the other one was part time, weekends only. So, that meant working that job, plus my current job. If I get this one, I can quit my current job and work one.

This place does it different than most facilities. After the interview, the information is presented to a Board, they decide if I am hired or not. The interviewer, has some input, and he said he would recommend they hire me. I hope this one comes through.

I don't have any other comments to make right now.

I don't have any other comments to make either except that I think you are great, and I hope you get this job. And just a few more things.....

You it seems like your posts have been really quiet lately. I am not sure what that means - but I hope you are not afraid. I hope you are not hurting.

My belief is that the girl that got through school working her butt off will be fine no matter what. The same girl that did all that stuff is a real winner, and I expect her to continue to act like one. I hope you get a big grin when you read this.

Just think of this as taking your life back - that is a positive thing.

SS

SS, yes, I got a big grin and a little chuckle.

Scared - a little, something I will conquer.

Hurting - sometimes, as usual, I get through it and pull myself back together.

Trying to focus on getting employment so I can gain some financial freedom. I have the one job offer, they just have to verify references and background check. Then there is todays interview.

Thinking, evaluating, wondering, what do I want?

Lately WS, has been really nice to me. The big question is WHY? Is it because he loves me? or does he want something? His pattern has always been he wants something.

The local radio show here will be having their annual trip to Vegas soon. H and OW went last year. Is H trying to find a way to go again this year? I don't know. I've been trying to find out. So far, he says no.

I know I should be considering, planning confronting and Plan B. I don't know if I want Plan B. I don't know how much love I have left for him. I think there is some. Is there enough to attempt a recovery? If he leaves, will there be any left to recover if he comes back. I don't know. I won't know until the time comes to act. It is getting closer. That I know.

Sometimes, I wonder, what would my life be like if I went it alone as a single mother. Besides lots of work. I know there is nothing easy about single motherhood. I did it for two years, my sister has been doing it for 14 years. I've watched her struggle, helped her when I could.

So many things to think about.

The job I interviwed for today, would be a big increase in pay from what I make right now.

PS

The one I interviewed with today, it felt right. I cannot explain it. I felt like I was saying all the right stuff.

He is interviewing one other person, so I should get an answer soon.

Sue
If this job feels right to you I pray that you get it.

I wonder sometimes really how different your life would be as a single mother.As I read your post and get to know you more it seems you are playing the single parent role to a point already.

I know that you are smart and know what is best for you and your children,with that said I just want you to know that I am here as a friend to help you through the tuff times.

Good luck w/the new job,if it is meant for you its already your job no matter how many others apply.

Take care my friend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sue,
She hit it right on the head- right now you *have* been living like a single mom. Your husband hasn't been bringing in much income anyway and emotionally he isn't stable and still in major selfish mode. He places you in a maternal role and you do tend to fall into it (sorry, but I've seen it a few times in your posts).

I am praying so hard that you get a job where you feel secure enough to finally FINALLY confront. I really think Harley would flip if he knew how long you have been dealing with this.

Sue, it needs to happen soon. I see your spirit dwindling, even in the face of your success. You can't let yourself continue in this way. We are all hurting for you seeing the pain you are in.

Sue,
you can always look at the bright side.

One way to do that is to get a mirror and hold it up in front of you. Look at that gal in the mirror. You are used to seeing her bad side, but look at her good side. She has turned her life around with little help from her H. She is hard working, kind and loving to her children and even her H. After all he has done, she is still kind to him and does things for him.

There is a very bright side to the Sue I know. I hope she sees it too.

SS

[ October 29, 2003, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Sue,

Smart and sassy?

Or tired and hurt?

Where are you now?

SS

The job I wanted I did not get. Bummer.

There is still the Nursing Home job.

Where am I, about in the same place. Mostly, scared.

Scared he will not want to make the marriage work. Scared he does want to make it work and I don't.

Scared to trust him again, or to even try. Right now, I know what to expect, do i really want to continue like this? - No.

I know I can do it alone, do I want to - No

Mostly, I think and ask myself what I want, what I want out of my marriage, what do I want for me, my kids.

Right now, I spend alot of time thinking. This is how I usually come to conclusions and find the strenght to follow through. I need time to think, and think some more until I am confident I am making the correct decision.

Sue

You will make the right decission I know.
You need to be happy,you have not been for a long time.
Its time for Sue to be happy again.

Hi Sue,
sorry about the job. If you would ever consider relocation, check this out.

Thanks for your comments. I kind of recognize that by avoiding new things I consider too risky I might be stuck with tools that don't work.

I don't think you say things in a disrespectful way, maybe a plan A expert can explain it better. You are supposed to be honest. That includes your feelings too.
As I understand it's the way and timing you choose do share those that distinguish honesty from DJ.
My timing I guess is never right. The "way" got better - I am no longer an emotional wreck, but I still can't stop the tears from dripping, even if my voice remains calm.
I wish you the best. Now and for the future. I am very sorry that your H is playing your kids against you. For them this is an entertaining and tempting game, that usually brings short term benefits. I actually tried to talk to my D about it - that I believe that being a stricter parent does not mean I am the less loving one. On several occassions I noticed that they do realize that, yet they still try to reap any benefits from our disagreements immediately. But with the passing time they are kinder and nicer to me, and we have better communication now than ever.
Till later, FBOW

FBOW,

Thanks for the link. On and off, I consider relocating

Hi all,

I'm lurking, feeling under the weather.

My "Bundles of Joy" brought home a wonderful virus, as usual, mom is the last to catch it.

I am getting very frustrated with the job search lately. I've had three interviews so far, with no results.

I think I have a part time job in a LTC facility, even with my FT job, it will not bring in enough for me to have some financial independence.

One place called. They received my application, they will keep it in the "active" file, they usually hire RN's with a 4 year degree and a 3.0 average. I have a 2 year degree with a 2.63 average. (I think that is pretty decent considering I was working FT, dealing with infidelity and I started out with a 1.95 GPA (don't laugh, my early years at college were mostly spent in the bar, (what, I was supposed to open a book and study back then?) when I returned to college 3 years ago, I was placed on probation because of my GPA.)

Anyway, It is very frustrating. Two years ago, new grads had to pick from job opportunities, now we are lucky to get an interview. Soon the December grads will be trying for these openings too.

So, I decided I have to take the LTC position, even if it means weekends. At least I can get some experience so in few months I will no longer have to try for new grad position and I can now try for other positions available out there.

Sue,

I can hardly imagine you on probation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

How about we all think real positive and say a little prayer just for you. That the right job will come to you soon, so that you can begin to make the decisions that you have been putting off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care my friend

Ginger, you can stay 42 forever if you want my friend, or if you want, you can subtract 10 years off, I won't tell.

LOL
Until I get picked for the extreme make over show I guess I'll stay 42.After that I will take off the ten years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Saturday, WH surprised me, asked if we could get a babysitter, and we would go out for dinner and a movie. Well, while having the dinner, we decided to rent a couple of videos instead of going to a movie, we both were getting tired.

While at the video store, and we are looking through the selections, H commented he saw "Legally Blonde 2". Now, I know he did not go to it with his brother. This is not his brothers type of movie. That does not leave much choices left as to who he saw it with. Beside, he was trying to change the subject right away. At first he was talking like we saw it together, until I told him, I never saw it. He would not see "Two weeks notice" with me.

go figure

Ok I am feeling angry just reading this.I can only imagine how you felt.
How in the world did you keep your cool.

You are one amazing woman.

I was hoping you would have closure, or reconcillation by now.

How do you keep it all inside?

Is it for the kids, or are you just that good?

I think of lots of things to say, but none of them would help you, so I keep quiet.

Praying for you, and Ginger too.

SS

Thanks SS
I can use all the prayers I can get!!!

I thought I would have had closure too by now. It is the lack of closure I find very frustrating. When this happens, that is when I start getting upset and all the bad from the past find a way to the front.

How do I do it, I don't know. Maybe years of training. As much as my parent were good parents, there were a few areas they could have used improvement. As a kid, I was teased alot. I was that kid that most people picked on. I remember telling my mom, and her response was "ignore it, it will go away" It did not go away, and I withdrew more and more. In school, I was like a wallflower, I wanted to participate, but didn't. I wanted to be outgoing, but was not. I made attempts at trying to get involved with other groups, and I was snubbed most of the time. I was the kid who always sat alone at a table. Once in a great while, someone would join me, only because their friends went to McDonalds and they didn't want to.

I did not learn constructively how to deal with conflict until later in life.

After I got my first job, it was not in fast food like most of my classmates, nor was it through some school program such as DECA, or the office one, where you left school half the day to work. I was working as a nursing assistant in a nursing home. Making more than my classmates were. I worked with other kids my age from other neighboring suburbs. I started making friends from work. They saw the fun me, the outgoing me. Once I graduated from school, the real me started appearing more and more.

This is why I can keep control so easy, but maybe it is a curse and not a blessing. I learned a few things from these days. High School can be the best time or the worst time of someones life. I also knew that once I graduated, I did not have to see any of these people unless I chose to. I have only chosen to go to one class reunion, and that was only out of curiosity. It was the 10 year. They did not change. Once in awhile I run into someone at kids sporting events. They behave somewhat mature now. I did not learn to stand up for myself until later in life, but it takes me a while to do it.

I did not tell you this to make you cry Ginger, and I know it will.

I do not tolerate teasing out of my kids. The boys pick on J, the girl I give a ride to school. When they do, they are made to apologize, and it is not acceptable until it sound believable and she accepts it. Beside apologizing, they have a priveledge taken away. I refuse to raise verbal or physical bullies. I don't care if it is a phase or not. We can all learn sensitivity.

There are still many who believe in the ignore it, it will go away philosophy. We know that it does not. It has not gone away yet. And no, I have not hoped it would end without resolving the A issue. I have to do it in my time.

The kids is what helps me to keep it together with regards to the A. In every other area of our M, I speak my mind. Maybe too much.

Right now, if I exposed, and he left, my CS would be next to nothing. I could not even afford a small apartment to raise the kids in, and with government budget cuts, I would not be elibible for any assistance. My kids would end up being home alone until I came home most of the time.

The oldest is almost old enough to stay home for short periods of time, but I cannot rely on him to get himself off to school on time. His head is in the clouds alot. My middle son, is toooooo creative to be left home alone and princess is just too little. The boys are too young to be watching a 4 year old.

I made it this long, whats another few months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
No, I will not lose me. I like me too much to have that happen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ November 12, 2003, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Sue,
I did not cry,I am fighting the lump in my throat tho.
Not only because of what you went through,but because I could relate so much.

Hi Sue;
you are realistic and don't get carried away by emotions; it's a virtue, too bad you are paying for it with your pain and anxiety, and yes, this is NOT fair.
About the book, so far I only glanced thru it, please understand that I am very skeptical about all this self-help book genre, so I might be too harsh in judgement. I especially despise the disscussion-by example- part, but I understand this is the most common style, so I just bear with it (like the SAA) book, I look mostly for practical tips and NOT in the form of a cookbook , i.e. I'd rather figure out my way using tips than follow a recepie to a T.
So, I'll let you know my opinion from this standpoint later.
It's very much gender skewed, but yes, so far eye opener just like the "fog talk" script was to me. I tend to breathe easier when I see that my situation is not that unique, that I am NOT imagining things, and those few examples I read did show me that. I'll let you know if I find any techniques if and how to respond, so far just reading about how to identify verbal abuse and to validate own feelings.

And if I decide to use any of techniques I'll let you know too. But please be patient, I am trying to catch up with housework, and also prepare for the upcoming IL visit; and also I will be away for two weeks, so not much reading time for now.

I was also raised with a mantra about teasing "just bear it, they'll tire of it; at least you are smarter/kinder/more mature than "them", avoid confrontation etc. Unlike you, and possibly due to lack of siblings I never really learned how to confront or actively cope with it. Last year certainly was a progress for me there.
Take care,
FBOW

It really stinks when you run into the xboyfriend from 20 years ago and he looks better than before. He is the one I regretted dumping a year after I ended the relationship.

He is still as nice as ever. I've gained a few pounds since we dated and he says I look the same as before. He probably gained about 20 pounds, and it looked good on him.

Oh well, I made my decision back then, so it is the one I have live with. But I have had regrets ever since. Once I thought about trying to get back together with him, but I didn't have the courage to ask him

Near the end of the relationship, I was not as nice as I could have been. I wasn't mean, but I could have been more respectful towards him

[ November 14, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

HI Sue
When did you run into him???

I was at the local drivers bureau getting tabs for the SUV. He was there doing something with a boat title.

We chatted a little, he is not married, but he is living with someone. He still does the same type of work he did when we dated. You know, small talk stuff.

It brought back the "what if" type memories. Every so often, I still think of him and wonder how he is doing.

As I said, near the end, I was not very respectful towards him and he, was always the gentleman. We went out for 2 years before I ended it. It seemed like it was a dead end relationship. He never once told me he loved me during the two years we were together. Even when I ended it, and told him why, he never said or did anything to try to convince me to reconsider. He just accepted my decision, so that only confirmed to me, that the relationship went as far as it was going to go. I did find out, after running into him once about 12 years ago or so, that when I ended it with him, it really hurt him. I never knew it at the time. Had I known how he really felt, I probably would have never ended it, about 1 and a half years into the relationship is when I started questioning where it was going, and when I tried to talk to him about it, well, we made no progress, so over time, I guess, I started pulling away and accepting that there was no future. (The whole needs thing being filled, had he gave me what I needed to stay in it, I would have). Oh well, no use crying over the past.

My current marital state does not help with the "what if" questions.

After I broke it off with him, it seems like my choices in men, well, they have not bee the best.

Lets see - an abusive alcoholic
H - (before we married)
a short R with a womanizer (I found out 3 weeks into this one, he had a livin GF, so I ended it)
back with H, got married, and the rest is on MB for all to read.

[ November 14, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

I'm hesitant to say this, every time I do, I find out I am wrong, but H is home more. I wonder if the A is cooling down or over?

H wants to go on a big family vacation next year

Hi Sue
I vote for over!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Is husband working? Because if he isn't he has no business leaving the house without you. Period.

Sue, I am getting incredibly frustrated watching you have to deal with this sh*tty situation. I can't even imagine what this is doing to your health.

H just got the okay to go back to work. Now they have to call with a job.

The jobline is not encouraging. All short calls. Which means two weeks or less. But it is work. They are limited to the number of short calls they can take, if they go over their limit, they go to the back of the line.

How odd, H just called to see how I am doing. He never does that.

My health is fine. I don't let this get to me. After awhile, you find ways to cope.

I come by,
and there are lots of things I could comment on, but things seem to be pretty much the same.

Sometimes I start the "what if" game, but it never gets me anywhere - anywhere I want to be at least.

I keep hoping and praying you'll get that full time job with good hours. It would be nice to see you get a break for a while.

I know if you don't get a break, you will make it work anyway. Glad H is paying more attention. I still think you wouldn't have chosen a total looser, there must be a lot of good in him still. Talk to that good side, ignore the bad side.

Did you explore the reference that FBOW sent you? That would be a climate change!! I think there is lots of work for trades in LV also.

It would be a long way back to the bonfires though.

Smile, it's good for you.

SS

I looked at the link. We are thinking it over.

Cerri, once suggested to me, that we should move out of state. I don't know. Having family close by is important to me. So is my immediate family, and saving it. I got the feeling from Cerri, that might be the only way to stop this whole thing. H keeps suggesting we move north, about 45 min, she lives north about 45 min. The area H is showing me, is near where she lives.

If we move, it will either be out of state, or into the school district my kids attend school.

I have been mostly doing alot of thinking here lately. Wondering, what should I do, keep trying, confront, walk, what?

And, no, H is not a total looser. He has his looser moments.

It is so confusing. I am not sure what I want any longer either.

Family, such a complex dynamic.

Most of my friends want to see me file for divorce. They think I'm wasting my time, so I don't talk to them about this.

This is the only place I really have to come to.

I wish I could afford to counsel with Penny

Swh,

You can ask penny questions right on this board for free. I'm also mentoring currently for her site and will be happy to help you in any way that I can. There is of course two excellent strategies for ending affairs (Plan A and B) and those are the ones both Penny and I would advise you to use. The two parts of plan A and B that get ignored the most (and cripple any hope of it working) are "confrontation" and "exposure". You have done neither of them. I know your efforts have been hampered by all of the school and financial issues....but it is a goal that I think if you are not serious about pursuing will only prolong the situation you find yourself in now. I am sad to see you still in this quandary....but I have zero doubt about what Penny would tell you to do. Sometimes, we get comfortable with our pain....it's a known quantity. But you are becoming far more comfortable than I would like to see. It's time to shake up the status quo and do something different. Or as Dr. Phil would say "How's that working for ya?"

Hi Star,

I know I should confront and expose. It is something I think about more and more. Scares me right out of my boots.

I know others have made it through financial hardships. If he left, I know I would have to find an apartment for me and the kids, send the animals to the humane society,(there are very few apartments that take pets, and those that do, usually charge extra). Three bedroom apartments cost a little less than my mortgage. I would save on utilities though. (I suppose I could lookd for a two bedroom and keep princess in my room). (Just planning for the worst). Sell the car and get a cheaper one, I would not be able to afford the insurance and car payment. I know, there is the issue of child support, I don't know if he will qualify for unemployment right now, he is working a two week job, after that, if there is not a permanent one, then he will have to hope for another short call. So, I could get an award, but it is useless to me unless I receive anything to help support us. Assistance from the county, at this time is a joke. I know many who with government budget cuts, have either been cut off and are struggling to make it or have had their assistance cut off. They go to the food shelf quite often to feed their family. My neice was told she would get daycare assistance when the baby was born. Now, she gets zip because the funds are gone. Everything she makes pay for the daycare and provides for the baby. So, assistance is out of the question.

At this point, I just try to survive. It will get better, that I know.

HI Sue
Just want you to know that I am here for you.

Swh,

I'm not suggesting you do anything to put you and your children out on the streets or send your animals to the shelter!!! My goodness no! You will have a good paying job in the near future...and when you do....and you can afford to weather the financial issues....there is time for exposure and confrontation. I know you are afraid, and I know you don't want to jump out there without a safety net....I DON'T BlAME YOU! Take this one step at a time....for everything there is a season. But do PLAN Sue...do set some goals and a timeline for accomplishing the things that need to be done. I will help any way I can.

(((((((((((((((((sue))))))))))))))))))))

If you know the lotto numbers for the next powerball drawing or Gopher 5, I will take them. (j/k)

Money is the biggest hurdle to overcome. I keep wondering when will it get better.

I had high hopes that I would be finished with school and have found a job shortly after. I did not expect the job market even in nursing to dip. In other areas, I hear it is still good. Not here.

Today is just a bad day. I'm trying to do the fixes on the house before the Dec 1 deadline set by the city, and we cannot afford it. It really is not that much that needs to be done before Dec. 1, but we don't have the money for the repairs. H has not received a disability check for the last 5 weeks. Savings is gone. He contacted a higher up at the union and complained. This guy is going to check into it. If we can get that money, we will be fine for November. If H can qualify for unemployment, we will be okay with me working two jobs. Because he was out on disability, I don't know if he will qualify for unemployment. If not, then we will be in trouble. He may have to take any job, just to bring in a paycheck.

The assistant City Inspector, after I explained our situation, said he will speak with the guy who sent out the letter and explain to him that even coming up with 20.00 to spare is difficult for us to do.

I never thougth we would have to go through rough times like this again.

What is the worst we are looking at, selling the house, and living off the equity (what little there is). We can always start over.

I might have to pull my daughter out of preschool, the tuition is due. First, I will see if there is a scholarship I can apply for. I'd hate to take her out if I dont' have to. Dance, that I will probably have to pull her out of. I prepaid half the tuition, so she is good until January. Hopefully, things will look better by then.

You are not the only one struggeling with finances. There are many all over the country having the same troubles. I wish most of them had your skills at making things work.

This time, I wish for your troubles to leave for a while while you get your feet under you.

I don't suppose anything I say will make any difference, but I just wanted to give some support even if I am not really good at it.

I have a hard time coming up with the right words lately. How do you communicate that you would help more if you could when words seem so futile?

I believe in you. We believe in you. Things aren't over yet for Sue w/ Hope. I'll continue to hope for you right along.

SS

I know I am not the only one struggling with finances. I'm just tired of the never ending battle. If it isn't one thing it is another. I'm tired of the city, acting like we are ignoring their requests, when at this point in time, we are limited on what we can do and we are doing what we can with the resources we have. They started in on us after I applied for a permit so we could redo our roof. After that, it seems like it never ends.

SS- don't ever underestimate the support you and the others provide. I know my stuck situation must be frustrating to some. It looks like I am not doing anything to change things. And, on one hand, I am not and for some very good reasons. On the other, I am doing what I can for the moment, while I keep trying to move foward, even if it is in extremely slow motion.

Hi Sue,
I just want to drop a quick comment re VerbAb Book.
It is an eye opener and a diagnostic tool, but sadly I don't see many ideas how to deal with it other than a) leave the R b) Saying "stop it" while it's happening.
So it's up to abuser to relise what's going on, but as most of it occurs intentionally I kind of doubt they just stop as this is a power trip for them.
I will go thru this book more thouroghly when I have more time, not likely before the holidays.

I personally need a book about "How to grow your own B***s and use Them efficiently".

I guess that's what my esteem regaining journey is all about.

Hang on. I am the last to criticise the slow motion, as long as it is bearable and in a right direction.
Don't be surprised by more lies and deceit even after confrontation.

FBOW

I don't mean to sound like "your not the only one with problems." I meant that to be more helpful, but it didn't come out like I wanted.

Sue, I know why you wait, I just wish we could do more somehow.

FBOW, I was hoping this book would be of more help. I suppose you already knew you could leave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I was also wishing it would give you more tools.

Both of you (oh shoot, all of you) have a good weekend.

SS

Just a vent. I want to scream.

Living with this man is so frustrating. He has not concept of money and financial responsibility. Lately, he wants to be "Mr. Big Shot" acting like we are rolling in the green stuff when we can hardly pay bills. I told him how much we needed to pay bill each month, he thinks I'm full of it. It is like a repeat of my last fiance. He was the same way. I don't need this. I don't want this. When he was in school, and we had no money, he was different. He was humble. I liked that quality in him. Now, he is arrogant, and want to impress everyone by paying for everything. Why can't I find a normal responsible man? Does such a man even exist, or is this some fantasy I created because my father behaved like a normal responsible man. Or is this the man of the past, and the men of the present and future are immature irresponsible babies who still need their mothers to take care of them.

LOL
That was a really good vent.
Sorry everyone I am not having that great of a day either.
If you find that great man,will you ask him if he has a brother and then call me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> by the way he must be faithful too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

the only one I know of is married to a friend of mine. I told her if she figures out how to clone him, I will take one.

Hi swh
I also have problems with money and am now finally looking to get the finance house in order.
One of the things i've been told is that a budget is key. There are many ways to function within the budget, they may involve several bank accounts or different envelopes for each week or need. As I have only started now, I dont have any great advise but there is muach help available. My grandma used to put a percentage of each bit of income into a variety of envelopes labelled car, food, insurance, clothes, etc. She never took money out of one envelope to pay for something else.

Sorry I did not read your history before replying here, but in my family I have asked my wife to budget and she refuses. I wanted to show her what percentage of the after expenses money goes to dinners out and party supplies, bad habits, and other such things. I think she is afraid to look at the reality. A starbucks treat every day is like $1000 a year! It could be half of my fun money, for what, coffee and a bisciut?

Could you move the money that covers basic needs out of reach of the impulsive hands. Say the first $500 of each incoming check goes into a seperate account that is for those basic things that cant be ignored?

Something like that. I know that more money earned is sometimes the cure for the problem, and it sounds like your struggling to keep the income up, but also struggle with the outgoing money and if you can get a handle on it that may relieve some pressure.

Not easy with out cooperation but I know now that I should have done this even when my W was objecting.
I have links to some web sites if you are interested.

Good luck and keep those city account clerks at bay. There must be some way to get them looking the other way for a while. Apply for a permit to build an adventure park in your basement and see if that gets them busy . lol

Rusty

Hi Rusty,

Thanks, sure, I will look at the links.

I've tried it. I was saying something, and somehow I deleted it. In a nutshell, my H, thinks I make more than I do, and he does not want to part with what he makes. I think he is convinced I should support the family so he can play and keep his paycheck.

I told him today, that we will have to take our daughter out of preschool because we cannot afford it any longer. He did not like that. But it is true. I also told him we need to think about sending back the Saturn, and getting a older used car. He didn't like that either. If he is not going to stay within our means, then stuff needs to be cut out.

Sad thing is the responsible one always gets stuck because the other doesn't care.

A's and money problems seem to go together. You really do need to get this in the open. You have been nice to long so you could get through school and get a job.

I suppose it does no good to say you don't deserve this after you are already in the middle of it.

What would it take for you to have a relaxing day? About $10,000 and two weeks off?

I don't know if you can have a happy weekend or not, but that's what I am wishing for you - you too Ginger.

SS

SS-

I think I could take two weeks and relax on 10,000 (i'd even have plenty to spare after the two weeks were done)LOL

I went as far as looking into 2 bedroom apartments, what would it take to get into one.

Things wouldn't be so bad if H would get off his duffus and get on the butts of the office staff at his Dr's office. They need to send some paper work to the ins. carrier so H can collect the last 5 weeks disability pay due him. H has a problem with things like this. For some reason, it is almost as if he is asking for Charity. H is back to work on a 2 week job. Then he gets the pleasure of filing for unemployment. He didn't use up all his benefits from last time. They said they even adjust the time from the disability if it is over a specific number of weeks.

I'm still waiting to hear about my start date for the part time RN job I got.

I heard back from one I applied for. My application was submitted to the various dept. If any are interested, I should know next week if they want to interview me or not. (finger crossed).

Thanks SS
I have to work all weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but I get off real early tomorrow so I will cook and then eat and then clean up and then maybe relax <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sue I have nothing to add I am sorry.My H has been a big spender in the past,but he has tighten his belt lately since the strike he has hardly spent anything(but neither have I) I guess that is one possitive on his part.

Every one here have a great Thanksgiving.

Just once, I would like to be carefree and irresponsible. The thing is, I did that once, back in my early 20's. When a person can be, before maturity sets in, and it is time to grow up.

I wish H would stop trying to impress people and stop trying to keep up with his friends who actually do have more than we do. They like us as we are. (Or I think they do. But then again, I'm sure H would tell me, that they are his friends, not my friends, so I should limit my interaction.)

I could say a lot of things, you know I could.

How about this?

Sue, you have faults, but you have a very good streak too. Let go of the faults for a while, both in you, and in your H. Think about the good for at least two days. No, don't use rose colored glasses, don't hide the problems, but concentrate on the plus side. Look for happy times, see what you can find.

I know (and yes, I am sure I used the right word) I know you still are happy a lot. You - becaues of who you are won't be beaten by these things happening to you. You will feel that when you read this. You won't fail. No matter the bad, you will come through.

Smile, you deserve to smile. Realize how far you have come. See who you are. The mirror may sghow a few extra pounds, but it shows good as well. Look at the good and realize it for what it is - payback for all your hard work. You should like what you see, after all, we all do. And if you don't see all you want to see, what then? Can you keep working on things for a while?

Can you take compliments? - how bout if they are true?

I only report what I see, and if you don't see the same, take my word for this one.

See you around.

SS

Budget links
[Personal Budgeting and Money Saving Tips]
Basics

[budgeting dot com]
Ideas

The envelope idea is an old one that is so workable becaause you can manage it with out any books or worksheets. Just put cash in each envlepoe and DO NOT touch that enveleope unless its for the purpose intended. You will still need to calculate some amounts to put in each envelope. Of coarse some money goes straight from the paycheck to the grocery store etc. but take some money from each paycheck to pay for future expenses. It will take time to build for some things but you will be suprised how fast $10 and $20 bills can add up. Dont forget to stick al your loose change away for a rainy day. I used to stick 'found money' (money I wasn't expecting) in hardcover books on the book shelf. It making rainy day reading a little more rewarding!
Hope this helps
Rusty

Hey Sue,

Please tell us how you are doing - how things are shaking out this week with all that was due.

SS

I'm here, I know I have my faults. Boy, do I ever. I don't expect perfection out of him either. I keep recalling the man he was when I fell in love with him. The man I am living with is nothing close to the man I fell in love with.

The man I fell in love with was sensitive, understanding, compassionate, idealist (too much, that it was actually cute). He was poor, impulsive, fun loving, bad with money, (but not like he is today, he was more responsible back then. Back then, he was realistic about the finances).

I'm too serious, too practical, like to know what is going to happen next. My practical side, interferes with my fun side.

I've decided after the holidays, regardless of my job situation, it is time to make the next step. I am confronting, exposing and if need be, Plan B. I've been looking into apartments, I figured out a budget on my pay alone. I can do it. It will be tight, very tight. I'm hoping it will not come to that. If it does, it means moving the kids (I will not give them up), sending the animals to a shelter, which will hurt the kids. They love their pets. I have to be realistic, in the worst scenario. I cannot afford to keep the house, and apartments that allow pets will not allow 3 pets. If I am lucky, I will be able to keep one pet, possibly the cat.

Specifically, I will wait until after my MS has his birthday. I don't want to find myself moving just before or just after his birthday.

I will apply for the apartment, put down a deposit, the day I get the acceptance, is when I confront. If he chooses her, I go and sign the lease and move. Call the lawyer to set up formal seperation agreement. Sell the house. There is noway I can help pay the mortgage while I am paying rent.

I cannot do this any longer. I figure I made it this long, I can get through the holidays.

My 6th anniversary is this month. Will there be a 7th? I don't know.

She invited him to a christmas party that is being held at her bosses house. He declined. He has plans with the boys. At least he is not changing them for her. So, does this mean that she has been having him at other work functions.

No more. I want it over, either between them or us. I want to get on with my life.

How am I doing? Not good. Crying alot, because I know it is time to make decisions. I'm scared to start over. I fear that is what I will be doing. I don't want to hurt my children. I know I am not the one who hurt them, but I will be the one they see as leaving their daddy. Until they understand, I will be the one they blame.

How's the new job going? How are you feeling about that?

You already know this, but I'll say it anyway just to back you up.

Do the right thing, and that's it. Do the right thing.

Your children will back you up in time. I have seen that one play out before, and they always seem to figure things out.

Stay, or leave, it will be best to have it go to the next step, and you sense that. I am not much help with part of this, I can't do much about the tears. Remember your friends love you, remember we pray for you. You can do this, and I think you know that, I support full disclosure.

Call Cerri if you need to, she already said she would help. Don't be afraid, there is no reason for it now after all this time, and after all you have done. I don't know the future, but I am firm in believing that you will do well no matter where it goes for you.

Can you have a happy holiday? Can we help? What do you need the most?

SS

Thanks

What do I need the most?

A faithful husband
Winning lotto number (I will share)
A full time Nursing job to appear

Job question - I have not started yet. I was offered a different job. I'm waiting to get my start date. I expect to get a call any time now. I decided on this job because it is withing a network. (better opportunities for full time in the future)

I'm scared, very scared.

I know what I want, I scared I won't get it. I'm scared I will and won't want it anymore.

Anyone and every one, go ahead and pray.

SS- did I read correctly on Cerri's B-day thread - 8 children. Holy moly. So, how old is the oldest and how old is the youngest?

I know with that many kids, the house is full of energy. I have 7 siblings. I hope you didn't have 1 boy and 7 girls. (That is what happened to my older brother. First born, and the rest girls. No wonder he joined the Air Force after graduating from College. He was afraid to come home (LoL)

4 boys, 4 girls.

S 26 Married
S 24 Soon to be married
S 23 Married
D 21 Married
D 19 college, but lives at home.
S 17 Senior and acts like it
Twin D's 10 Surprise!, Surprise!
We had a golden retriever but he passed away in Sept. He would have been 12 next week. (do pets count?)

Pretty even for a while, but now it's 4 girls agaist us two boys, and we loose most votes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You are right about their being a lot of energy around our house, and the married ones visit OFTEN. I thought it would be more quiet by now, but it's probably worse, because the older ones bring spouses with them when they visit.

How's Christmas shaping up for you? Did the house stuff get worked out?

I know you don't cry constantly, but I am sorry that now, when you ought to be able to find increrased joy, you have the added sorrow of not knowing what to do about your marriage.

When those worries almost consume me, when I can't sleep, when life seems to be the most bitter, I seek help in prayer. That's the only place I can go and get real help. I hope it is working for you too, but sometimes peace is a long time coming.

I really do believe you will be OK, but I know you still have to do the work to make it so. Here's to your success - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SS

Wow SS
I am impressed.That is a large family.
Any grand babies??

No, but the first two are due within a week of each other in March.

I don't get to the recovery forum much, Just how is Ginger doing these days?

I don't feel old enough yet to be a Grandpa, but then, you sound too young to be a grandma, so I must be in good company.

Sue,
I hope something good happens to you this week.

SS

<blockquote>quote:<hr />S 26 Married
S 24 Soon to be married
S 23 Married
D 21 Married
D 19 college, but lives at home.
S 17 Senior and acts like it
Twin D's 10 Surprise!, Surprise!
We had a golden retriever

No, but the first two are due within a week of each other in March...I don't feel old enough yet to be a Grandpa, but then, you sound too young to be a grandma, so I must be in good company. <hr /></blockquote>You've been busy my friend. Do you want to be a granddad to my 4 to practice? You'll be wonderful, don't worry. Just like Cosby says, you get to give them back! And golden retrievers are my favourite dogs too!

SwH

Stay strong. You can do this either way it plays out.

{{{{{{{{{{{SwH}}}}}}}}}}}

Sue,
I am so absolutely thrilled that you are now planning and moving forward. You are giving yourself a gift- a gift of peace. No matter what happens after you confront, you will NOT be the only one carrying the burden anymore.
Please know I will be thinking of you all through the holidays. ((((((((((((((((SUE))))))))))))))))

Sure SAB, it would be an honor to be that to your children, but you should know, I am not used to being a grandparent yet. With the twins only ten years old, I am still in the middle of being a dad.

I do love kids, and though I try to spend time doing things for me, and also with W, I spend a great deal of time with the children and enjoy doing it. I think life would be pretty useless without children around.

See everyone next week. I hope you all get blessed in some way this weekend - and that it is what you need the most.

SS

Hi SS
Well I look at it this way.I am to young to be a grandmother but I was to young to be a mother and I did it.Grandchildren are the greatest joy they bring such happiness into your life.They truly are a reward for a life of hard work.

How is Ginger??
Ginger is just OK these day.Recovery is very slow coming for me,mostly becase I do not get from my H what I need.
Lately I feel lonely. And that is no easy task I work full time and have two of the grandkids full time again.But I feel lonely.

H is still on strike and that is stressful but God is good and by his grace we are making it just fine,so far there has been money to pay all the bills,we have not gone hungry and we were even able to buy a few christmas gifts for the family.

Maybe 2004 will bring brighter days for me.

Hi all,

Just when I think things are improving, I wonder what am I doing in this relationship.

H gave me a great anniversary gift early. A package deal at a center that does therapuetic massage. It was an herbal wrap, facial, foot massage and a massage. I was so thrilled to get it. I had asked for it, but figured he would never spend that much money on me.

I saw an e-mail from OW, she is looking for cake toppers and wants to know about getting engraved champagne glasses with my married last name on it for "our" table is how she put it in the e-mail. Sounds to me like she is planning a wedding. He isn't even seperated from me.

On the plus side he did not respond as far as I could tell. It looks like he read it and put it in the trash. He did not even save it. She included a website that she found the cake toppers on.

I started my new job. It seems okay. I wish it was full time and not part time.

Let me preface this message with I don't know how you do it Sue, I'd come unglued reading stuff like that. Maybe you've dealt with it so long you are desensitized to it?

She seems to be getting pretty desperate, maybe he's been putting the brakes on? I do wish you'd out them, it makes my stomach turn to read about what you are dealing with. You have had all the pain on your back for so long.

{{{{Sue}}}} here's a hug for ya, you deserve it.

Maybe he is putting the breaks. I don't know. I know with him coaching hockey, that does take up quite a lot of his time. He is also forming friendships with other parents and stuff, I'm pretty sure if they knew the truth, they would be upset. Not for me, but because he is coaching their kids and he is presenting himself as some upstanding model citizen (with the morals of an alleycat).

I know some mutual friends of ours would not be very accepting of this. They value the institution of marriage very strongly. Once, when they were over, the husband made a comment that he does not believe in divorce. She said the same. She once told me that they went through a very rough time, and they came close to splitting because it did not seem to get better. Once the divorce word was mentioned by one of them, it was shocking to them, that they even considered it, and somehow worked through it.

How do I do it, I know I am not desensitized, sometimes I think i am, but I am not. If I was, it would not hurt me.

Maybe H is backing off, and she is stepping up the pressure, but somewhere or somehow, she got the idea that they were getting married. Did he propose? I doubt it, I think H proposed to me the same way he proposed to his xwife. Not exactly a proposal, but specifically saying he wanted to get married. Years ago, he did ask with flowers, and then he backed off right away. Cold feet, he said he wanted to be sure he was not proposing because I was pregnant. We stayed together two more years after that. When he proposed 6 years ago, it was in November, we married in December. He said, "how about we go to Vegas next month and get married". I said sure. I really didnt' expect him to follow through. The next day he calls me and tells me he is at the travel agency and wants to know if I can get these specific dates off". I said sure. He bought the tickets, a week later, we bought wedding bands. Not my dream wedding, but then again, I knew we could never afford my dream wedding, not with raising two kids. So, I figured this was probably the best I was going to get.

I am staying my my decision to make it through the holidays. I will not ruin it for my kids. I don't want them to remember this as the Christmas mom moved us to an apartment and left dad.

It's hard to know what he is thinking, but if he trashed it with no reply, I have to think that is good.

I really hope when you confront that it can be done softly, and that he responds by saying he loves you, and that it's time he did the right thing - which is N/C.

Sometimes I have hard feelings about people that do bad things to me. It is hard to remember that God loves us all, even when we make major mistakes. I can't think of any one I know well that is really evil. Most of us make mistkes though - and I have done my share. When we look back, we wonder how we could have ever gotten so far off track, and we are glad for the events that bring us back. I am hoping he will look back in a few years and wonder how he could have gotten off track so far.

Since we don't know how any given person will respond, it is usually well to give them a chance for their good side to win out. I hope his does.

The down side is that you continue the rollercoaster ride long after you wanted to get off. It's like the guy at the amusement park can't find the stop button.

Really, you have the stop button with you in the car, and it seems to be time to push it.

I hope you are not afraid. I really can't see a reason for it in your case. You wonder how you will ever make things work, but I see a happy future for you either way this goes. I don't believe I am wrong.

Sue, you are worth more than you sometimes think. Have some faith that things will work out. It isn't as bad as you sometimes think it is. If you put your trust in God, and have faith in him, he will help you. Ideas will come to mind, you will know what to do. Keep praying yourself, and we will continue to pray for you also. Move foreward with faith and confidence in your future - and you will find the happy life you wish for.

I know that it won't be without work, but that's not a bad thing.

SS

I plan to confront after the holidays. Until then, I will do an awesome plan A.

I won't confront before the holidays because if he leaves, I don't want to ruin the holiday for the kids.

Happy Holidaysssss
Happy Holidaysssss
Hmmm hmmm hm hm hm,
Hmmm Hmmm hm hm hm
Walkin in a wint -

Sorry, didn't know you were listening.

Happy Holidays to you too.

Forgive me, I kind of mix the songs all up when I get thinking about something. I wasn't paying attention. W says it's time to go, see you later.

SS

SS- you are so funny

Hi Sue,
thanks for the wishes, all the best to You and your family and let Peace and Joy and Hope of this season help you in the everyday life.

I will be off line for a while, traveling with ILs who are arriving tonight.

Will be thinking of you. Supporting you with my thoughts with your current plan and praying for the best outcome.

Till later Sue,
FBOW

Wanted to give a brief update

Good news - I'm alive, breathing and kicking (i'm not sure how strong the kicks are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Bad news - I think I'm near coma state <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The last two weeks all I've been doing is working and sleeping and eating. I mean that literally.

Between two jobs, I've been working near 80 hours a week. This is the last week of the orientation/training madness. So, soon, I will go to my everyother weekend scheduled shift.

I think the only reason I have not gone into a coma is because I refuse to acknowledge that I am pushing myself too hard. I just do what has to be done.

The last two weeks all I've been doing is working and sleeping and eating. I mean that literally.

I recommend you shower too.

- Ouch

I was just teas -

Ouch !

Look, -

Ouch, Ouch, Ouch.

Hey, I was just teasing !!

Please find a way to get some rest. Take your vitimans too, sounds like you need them.

I suspect we'll still be here when you get more time.

SS

Hi Sue
Thought I would tell everyone that I'm still alive too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I agree w/SS try and take care of yourself,I sure miss you.
You Sue are the #1 champ at doing what has to be done.Your my hero!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OOOPPPS, I knew I was forgetting something. Now I know why the dog won't even come near me. (Just kidding, I did remember to take the shower too, I think I slept through it.)

Either tonight or tomorrow, depends if the papers come in, I have to go in for a few hours (not a whole shift) so I can get training on some once a month paperwork that will be my responsibility to get done.

Things are going well on the homefront for now. H is being really nice and attentive. Another up for the R, for now. As we have seen in the past, it usually has a down. So, enjoy the ups when you have them and ride the downs the best you can.

I think my gift to him will help to put a couple of deposits into the bank. He has been asking for the DVD set for over a year. (it is eighty dollars, ouch). Since I've put in so many hours working, I decided to get it for him.

I think things will start improving soon in the finance area. He is starting to realize that I am supportive of his wanting to change jobs, but we do need to meet our obligations, so it it looks like he is going to take the next job offered to him from the union, and he will do the other one part time for now. (I think. He has not said so, but he has been checking the union jobline more than he used to.

So far, I like working in the nursing home, the people I work with are great.

I still have to wrap christmas presents, bake cookies, and go grocery shopping. (I'm guessing the cookies will not get baked and the wrapping will be finished by Christmas eve night. I am usually so much more on top of it. I told H, that he could not help wrap unless I'm there, because he present is there.

I cannot find the Christmas CD I want. I want one with all the songs I grew up with, sung by people like Perry Como, Andy Williams, Bing Crosby, you know the singers with the great voices of the past. Brings back memories. I like some of the new ones, but there is something to be said for the oldies.

I have to laugh at how our bodies adjust to changes.

The last week, I have been working 3rd shift, going to my other job for first shift, and sleeping from about 4 or 5 until 9 or 10.

I got enough sleep last night, but I want to go to sleep now. I think I've gotten used to sleeping at this time of night. I will adjust back just in time to go back to the other hours.

I start my official weekend alone this Friday/Saturday.

Sue, I have exactly one suggestion for you:

- Buy the cookie dough that you slice and bake.

Well, okay, two suggestions.

- Buy the premade frosting and sparkly things to put on top.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Have a wonderful holiday!

Just J,

I just might do that, or I will do what I did last year. (I went to the backery and bought some). Of course there is always my sister. She bakes cookies for a good 2-3 weeks before Christmas. She makes a plate up for everyone and gives them out as gifts. I love it, and I usually put it out for everyone to enjoy. (Since I do this, I get two plates)

H is sending me pics via e-mail of rings. I'm sure I won't get one for a gift, not this year. Too late. Maybe he is planning on it.

A while ago, I told him I wanted to renew our vows infront of friends and family because we were married in Vegas. He sort of agreed. I brought it up again a couple of weeks ago, and he was more agreeable.

We will see what the future brings

One of the gifts I asked for this Christmas was for your H change enough to give you some hope.

I sincerely believe Sue deserves that.

Merry Christmas to you - to your whole family. May you find peace and joy more and more often and may you have some very happy days.

SS

Ginger, Merry Christmas to you also. Smile more, its good for you, and the grand kids love it.

SS

How'd the cookies thing go, Sue? Enquiring minds want to know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey SS how did you know I have not been smiling much lately??

I hope you had a very merry christmas.

Well Sue did you get a ring?? Hope you had a peaceful and restful holiday I know you need it.Hope to chat w/you soon.

Checking in on you, Sue...please tell us how your holiday went.

Well,
Lets address the cookie thing- I did not bake or buy any this year. My sister bakes every year and gives everyone a plate. I asked if she had extra if I could have an extra one to put out. (her contribution to the get together, she agreed)

H found a cookie press on Christmas Eve, late afternoon, too late for me to be baking cookies. (Santa got Archway molasses cookies)

H was out with a friend helping him shop for his wife. I got many phone calls wanting to know her size. Since I was on the other line with her, it was not too hard to work sizes into the convesation until they called wanting her undewear size. I draw the line at finding out that info. Beside, how do you work that into a conversation. Ladies, we all know we can find out a friends shoe size, pants size, blouse size, but we cannot find out the underwear size. They were at Victorias secret, so I told H, if the sales girl knows her job at all, she will know her panty size by know her pants size.

SS, as always you are so touching, you make me cry. That is a good thing. I have not gotten hard and cynical.

Christmas - was okay. Stressful as always. A couple of people did not show, which helped to bring the stress level down a notch. (they are very irritating people that my sister and brother married. They do not get along, so when they are in the same building together, you can cut the tension with a knife. My SIL is okay, she tries to avoid him and has negative stuff to say. My BIL, is a ranting lunatic, who looks like he is ready to have a heart attack on the spot. One could probably guess his blood pressure by the color of his face.

Rich disappeared Christmas night to find his dad(or so he said.) I was not happy about that. I understand he wants to see his dad, but his dad was invited, he chose to not come (it meant giving up booze for a day). When his dad is around, all booze is put away. I will not allow that man to drink in my house. He has a bad temper when he is drunk and I won't give him the opportunity to behave that way in my home. What he does in his home is his business. It is also not allowed around my children. If he is drinking, I refuse to go to his house or let the kids go. He really scares me.

I checked H's phone, he is still calling her.

I'm thinking of putting off confronting a little longer than planned. Some friends of ours want us to go a a vacation with them at the end of February. If we can afford it, I really want to go. They want to go to Mexico. I can count all my trips on one hand.

Vegas twice (once with H, to get married)
Missouri twice (both times with H, once before we were married and had kids the other time as a family vacation)

Thats all of them.

So, if we can afford this trip, is sure would be nice to go. I have to think this one over.

Would the trip be just you and H?? Or the whole family??

Did H ever find his dad??

Sue,
Not meaning to be a b*tch, but what other excuse are you going to come up with to not confront him?

You'd rather allow your husband to continue in his adultery so you can go to Mexico???

Wouldn't that money be better served towards yourself and children?

Sue, I think you have done this for way too long. Do not let 2004 be a continuation of the marriage you are in right now. It is WAY PAST time to confront and give this man the choice- YOU or HER. Mexico will always be there.

Just saying what I think some of us are thinking and too afraid to say.

Hey M,

There could be at least two reasons I can think of for her to want to go. Mexico may always be there, but if she confronts and he bails, she may not be going on a trip like that for years. She may want it for her, because she fears she won't be able to get away for a long time.

She also may want it for the two of them. Often going away strengthens the bond between H and W. It may help her succeed when she confronts.

I know you are worried about her trying to go on forever and getting burnt out, and it is good that you care. Sometimes I fear for her too.

If she is just putting it off, I think your comments will probably get her to look at things. If she has a good (and acceptable to MB methods) reason, we should support her in it.

It does look like more of the same things go on, and we still don't know if he will come around. I still wish he would stand up, come clean, and make things right with Sue. The bottom line is that Sue HAS TO LIVE with whatever happens - We just get to give advice and watch the fireworks.

I can hardly wait to see what Sue has to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

SS

I understand that, Still. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I guess I wanted to pipe up so that she *does* really look at it.

I'm hoping she doesn't rip my head off.

I'll try to support whatever she does by simply wishing the best for her even if she does choose to not confront, but something about this has my gut clenched. What would Dr. Harley say? I just don't know.

Sue,

There will always be reasons to reconsider confrontation.....and in my estimation there isn't a trip anywhere that will justify continuing in this way. Also please consider this....if you can scrape up the money to go, won't using the little money available to go on a trip, just again lengthen the time you can confront because then you will be financially strapped again? Goodness knows you DESERVE a vacation....but I'd like to see you get a vacation from living with your husband's affair rather than going to Mexico. Please DO think about this chere. When you start thinking "what's another two months?"....start also remembering just how long this has gone on and how much emotional damage it is doing to you. Stop dragging your heels and get this hussie OUT of your life.

[ December 31, 2003, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

No one's head will be bitten off.

I cannot do this much longer. It is getting very difficult for me to continue this way.

Besides, I realized the trip to mexico, it is all talk. I will just put it with all the cruises we went on. (I've never been on a cruise). If he really wanted to take me on a trip of a lifetime, he would save for it. He really does not want to. Time to accept reality for what it is.

No one's head will be bitten off.

Whew, I was afraid you found out who had been stealing from the cookie plate. I guess I can relax now.

I cannot do this much longer. It is getting very difficult for me to continue this way.

By now you have run hundreds of plans through your mind. Can you tell us what you are thinking?

Besides, I realized the trip to mexico, it is all talk. I will just put it with all the cruises we went on. (I've never been on a cruise). If he really wanted to take me on a trip of a lifetime, he would save for it. He really does not want to. Time to accept reality for what it is.

I don't think I want to touch that one, no reason to stir things up. If it makes you feel any better, my W hasn't had the "trip of a lifetime" yet either.

Sue, I feel that part of the reason you have been quiet is that you ARE afraid of this.

I still believe there is no reason to fear, that things will work out. If you do your best, it will all work out. Put your trust in God and go forward with faith and confidence in your future. God will not forsake you, I am sure he will hear your prayers. If H will not respond correctly, you will get other blessings to make up for that lack.

Kiss your kids, be glad for the good in your life. Thanks for your good exapmle, you have taught me much.

Continued support -

SS

SWC,

I've been on a "trip of a lifetime", but it was before d-day during the time I knew something was wrong - just not sure what. So the quality of the trip is dependent on the health of the relatinship. Otherwise it's alot of money spent without getting everything out of the experience that is possible.

I remember looking at other couples on the cruise wondering how they had such a wonderful relationship. Not wanting to be a downer for you; but didn't want you to think you were missing something magical. CSue

Hi,

Been quite because there is too much to do as usual.

I've filled out application forms for income based housing. Waiting list is long. I will not wait until my name comes up to confront. That will be one to two years away. Way too long.

I'm calling around different apartments. Waiting for a friend to call back. I thought I'd stop at her house today before work and talk to her again about me and the kids moving in there. I figure if we could make this living arrangement work, then when/if WH wakes up and realizes what had happened, I would not be in a lease. But, if I have to be in a lease, then I have to be in a lease.

I have some calls to make. My support network that I thought was there, is falling apart, so I have to work on another one.

Yes, I am very afraid to confront. Afraid I will hear that me, the kids don't mean enough to him to end it with her. Afraid that we do, and I won't be able to try anymore.

I know I have to do something soon.

Dear Sue,

every time I come back to check on you, there is another valid reason in your posts why you can't kick your H out the house just this week.

In the 19 months I have known you this has been your pattern. You put up with contact between H and OW, it bothers you a lot, but not enough to quit this M.

Sue, you have shown a lot of personal growth over time. Finished school, got a new job. What do you think is the real reason you avoid confronting H about his A?

Do you have enough proof of the A. In the GQII forum there was mention of a book recently that gives excellent advice on that topic. Let me find it for you: book

In case the URL didn't work, I bumped the post in GQ II for you.

That book made a lot of sense and maybe it could give you some good advice.

All the best to you, dear Sue, and a good 2004!!!

Rejection can be very tough pill to swallow. I can certainly understand where you are coming from on that. At the same time, you are compromising your happiness over this.

When I told my H what I had done, I thought for sure that would be it, he wouldn't want to stay in the M. You just never really know what people are going to do, unless you give them a chance. His choice will be his choice unfortunately. You can decide you will hold your head up high and move on with pride if he doesn't stay, or you can wallow in self pity the rest of your days. I know which one sounds better, but I also know it can be easier said than done... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I've given myself a date for confronting.

I made that date before christmas. I have not changed it. I have considered changing it. I keep going back to it.

Sue -- I have been gone for quite some time now, but I have thought of you often. When I read your latest replies, I was really bummed to see you are still dealing with the same crap you have been dealing with since I started here (20 months ago!) I hope you keep your "date", and confront your H. After all this time, and after everything you have done to "improve" yourself, you owe it to yourself to close this chapter too!!! You never know what your H will chose untill you ask him! I always told my H if he cheated I was GONE... no if's, and's, or but's!... BUT I stayed! Because it was a wake up call for BOTH of us... maybe it will be the wake up call HE needs???

You will continue to be in my thoughts! And I will check back in to see how you are doing!

mac

Hi Mac

Good to hear from you. I've wondered what you have been up to and how you were doing.

I'm still sticking to my plan of confronting.

I just got off the phone with a lawyer to discuss getting CS if he decides to leave. It will cost me more than going through the county, but I can have it in place sooner. I was straight with the lawyer that I do not want a divorce, but I have to be prepared for the worst and pray for the best. She is sending me a worksheet of what I need to have ready for her if we need to take action. She told me what it will cost me to do this portion, and that she will bill me as we go, if I need her for any other family related services. I'm hoping that it will not come to it.

Unless I am mistaken, he might actually care what I think. WH is trying to do a career change. I'm only half heartedly in agreement with this change.

Pros - flexibility in scheduling, opportunity to increase income, it is something he wants to do and enjoys it

Cons - flexibility in scheduling (he could say he is meeting with a client and really be meeting with her), could make less than he makes from the union employment, he could hide income easier (this job is totally commission based),

Right now, he keeps telling me when he took a new application, and the earning potential. (keep in mind, I said potential, until the papers are signed, it is not generating income). He keeps saying to me that I have no faith in him.

I'm one of those individuals that like security. Jobs that don't have a guaranteed income do not have not income security. Commission paying positions with no base pay have the potential to generate little to no income all the way to great incomes depending upon the product, the ability and motivation of the sales person, etc.

It makes me nervous that he is wanting to leave a good paying job for one that we don't know what he will make.

I do like the flexibility of this job. Sometimes he has been able to take the kids to school for me so I could got to work early.

So, this type of work has many pros and cons. He also has the ability to work from home when necessary. Or to take a child to work with him, such as today, OS can't go to school today, so, H took him to work with him. In the union type of work he does, he could not do this.

So, this career change he wants to do is good and bad. All depending upon your outlook. H says I'm negative, I prefer to think of myself as a realist, I try to see all aspects of everything, be prepared for as much as I can. (I used to be impuslive and it always got me into trouble)

[ January 09, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Hi Sue
I'm still following you all the way.
You know best for you so all I will do is support you in your decision.

I've said it before but will say it again,I admire your strength you are a remarkable woman your H will loose out big time the day he looses you.

Hi Sue,
(and hi Ginger - )

You sound like you are doing well. I don't know what kind of hours you are working right now, but I supspect too many. If you are "on plan" then that could be OK.

I read this (below) Sunday night, and wondered if there is something in it that could be of help to both you, and to FBOW. I would post it on her thread, but I think she will come here and see it. While this does not directly relate to either of you, I think both of you will probably understand why I think much of it applies. I hope it helps you and will help to put things into proper perspective.

SS

The War Inevitable
by Patrick Henry
March 23, 1775

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely and without reserve.

This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfill the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House. Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received?

Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with those warlike preparations which cover our waters and darken our land.

Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled that force must be called in to win back our love?

Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us: they can be meant for no other.

They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years.

Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves.

Sir, we have done everything that could be done to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne!

In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope.

If we wish to be free -- if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending -- if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained -- we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight!

An appeal to arms and to the God of hosts is all that is left us! They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength but irresolution and inaction?

Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us.

Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave.

Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston!

The war is inevitable -- and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace -- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!

I know not what course others may take but as for me: give me liberty or give me death.

Just wanted to drop in and say that if you need some support, just shoot me an email. I am right here with you.

Good luck. Stay strong

STTSI, SS, Ginger and everyone else

Thanks for being here.

WH, he has been really good towards me, even though the A continues. He has been talking about us joining a couples golf league this summer, he is still trying to make a trip to Vegas happen, he keeps talking about helping me get into shape for Mexico (I've alwasy said I wanted to be inshape before I went on a trip like that).

He has been cuddling me as we watch TV, he used to ignore me, he waits up until I get home from work (except on the weekends, I don't expect him to wait up then).

If I did not know about the A, I would have thought I had the best marriage ever.

I have more to say, I will say it later. I read a recent e-mail she sent H. I'm still flabbergasted by it. I don't know if I should pity her or not.

She's pathetic Sue, if you ask me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dear Sue:

did you have time to check out the book I linked in my last post to you?

Just thought maybe you missed it because you never mentioned anything about it.

IP,
Yes, I checked out the book. Sorry, I thought I said thanks for refering it. I might order it.

Okay, here goes. The e-mail I read yesterday, was one she forwarded from her dad to my WH. They are planning the rehearsal dinner. No date was mentioned, I got the impression that WH is not having much input into this. She asked if WH's brother was going to be the best man. I thought these things were generally decided before this stage in the wedding planning. I called BIL and told him, he could not stop laughing. He said he was not asked. WH was sleeping when I got home, but this AM, he was affectionage and loving. I know WH read the e-mail.

Last month, cake toppers, this month rehearsal dinner. Is she pregnant, is that why they are rushing things. Shouldn't WH be divorced from me first?

My sisters husband knows her from his HS days, he said she is nuts, whacko. It looks like it too. I'm sure she knows he is married. I know we have had hang up calls when I've been home during times I'm normally not home.

MIL is not happy about hearing this news. She said if she gets a phone call inviting her to the dinner, she will straighten them out. So, she is planning the wedding I didn't have. BIL said he was not invited to our wedding. I reminded him he was involved, he drove us to the airport and picked us up. (He was late, we were outside freezing our tushy's off, but he was the best man of sorts.)

I'm still in stunned, something. Do I call her parents so they don't invest money into this wedding that cannot take place, do I wait for them to invite MIL and BIL? Letting WH handle it would be a very bad idea.

My MIL is concerned that she may be so unstable that she might try to come after me. I promised her I will watch my back

Sue:

DO I UNDERSTAND YOU RIGHT????

This whacko OW is talking to HER parents about marrying YOUR H????? Planning the dinner???? And you have talked to your BIL and MIL about this, but not your H???

All the while he is married to you and behaving like everything is normal? And you are behaving to him like everything is normal???

Now there are at least two possible explanations for this:
-he is lying to you like there is no tomorrow and has his lawyer and divorce lined up
OR
-OW is a complete psycho and living in dream land while your H is thinking of ending the whole A.

???????

No matter what it is, dear Sue, why don't you sit down with H and have a straight talk? (Preferably AFTER studying in that book and lining up all your evidence so he can't weasle out of it).

How do you manage to keep it all inside of you in your day to day life? You are enabling him. Again: YOU ARE ENABLING HIM and this situation. Where are your boundaries? Where is the point that you say: "You are not treating me like this!" Do you just want to sit and wait until your H lets the whole thing explode in your face? Until he thinks now the time has come to confront you?

He is giving you mixed messages but you are sure the A is ongoing?

Sue, what do you want? Are you sure what you want? Do you have a plan to get it?

I wish so much for you that you are happy again. But it seems to me that your situation is moving towards a crisis...

Love

Wow, your story gets more complex by the minute Sue! So you are discussing this with your BIL and MIL but H is not aware any of you are discussing it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Look at it this way, the more wacko she acts, the better you look in H's eyes. I think he wants out, but doesn't know how. As someone who has done this before, I can tell you that its not all that hard to dig a pretty good hole for yourself. He could be concerned about what she will do if he ends it, like come after you and the kids.

Just some food for thought...

My MIL and BIL know about the A. They have been trying to me by not being available as a babysitter for him.

There is a registry at Target for my H and OW. Even if he was going to divorce me, I don't think it is possible to have the divorce finalized by the event date. Beside, he knows that the Mexico trip may be for that time frame. He really wants this Mexico trip. Our friends are making the arrangements. (I know we have discussed this trip, at this time, I have not said anything to WH to indicate I have reservations about this trip. I figured, it could be dealt with at confrontation time).

Is she delusional? Does WH have any involvement in these plans? I don't know? I'm mostly bewildered by all of this

I do know this, I need to step up the pace with regards to confronting H. Possibly after the hockey tournament this weekend.

As a friend pointed out, if she is delusional and WH does not know that the plans are to the point where they are with all of this, I need to look out for my safety and the safety of my kids. I cannot delay much longer. Hopefully I am overreacting and thinking I need to be extra cautious. I love my kids too much that I need to do this. God I don't want them hurt by all of this.

I don't believe that he would think that he could get away with marrying two women. Besides, I'd report him. I don't know what his involvement is in the planning and implementing of this event that is supposed to take place 4 days after my birthday.

You know, this is too bizarre. Way too bizarre. Now, I'm wondering if the car that was parked outside my house the other day is something to be concerned about. Were they watching me and the kids. It looked like they were.

[ January 13, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

I agree, you need to get this all out in the air very soon. I am fearing for ya'lls safety now, this is unbeleivable!!

Dear Sue:

You are wondering if your H knows about any of this? You wrote in your previous post that you read the email that OW send to her father and forwarded a copy to your H. I am sure he knows...

Sue, clear your head and think about all of this. It is possible that OW is becoming totally crazy like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction...maybe she is pregnant, maybe she is just crazy.

From what you wrote it seems that your H tries to get out of this by "escaping" to Mexico around the planned event. Is OW going to like this? I bet NO WAY. She has a registry at Target (cheap, tacky - no other comments) ?!?!

There is a deep hole of embarrassment and rage being dug here. She is digging it but do you know how much your H is encouraging this? What will she tell her friends, her family, everybody in her support system? Those people that have made purchases at Target, her dad who reserved the restaurant? This is more than weird...

Sue, listen for a moment: You have been dealing with this as long as I know you...over 1 1/2 years. Now things seem to spiral out of control. You cannot tip-toe around H any longer. This could have dangerous consequences for you, him and your kids (not to mention any rabbits in your household...). You and your H need to talk. My suggestion for that: do not tell him for how long you have known about the A and not said anything, not enforced boundaries. That does not look good, it could enable cake-eating behavior in him.

I would say that you have been doing a successful modified Plan A, you seem to be closer to him now than a year ago. Maybe the A is losing its attraction, but OW's behavior sure seems crazy and dangerous. Do not see it as a confrontation between you and your H but as the first step to recovery. Once the A is exposed, you can ask for a no contact letter and can start a real Plan A or B if necessary.

Love

I agree with Iceprincess, prepare to form a united front against OW if necessary. Don't assume your H will want to run off and leave you.

Also, I find the fact he is planning a trip to Mexico with you at the same time as this supposed wedding to be very interesting... Is he pushing REALLY hard for this trip? My theory is he wants to be locked into something that will take him far away from home during that time frame. Just a thought.

[ January 14, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: findingmywayback ]

Is it time?

SS

I have been working on a way to confront. I thought about writing it out. I know if I try to talk to him, I might falter.

I started writing it out, have it almost finalized. MIL overheard me talking to my sister about the registry and she decided to confront WH about it. I did a poor confrontation after that. After MIL told him that she saw it, she also told him that he had better call me and talk to me about it. I tried to tell him what I knew, instead I just cried like an idiot. I did tell him about the KQ vegas trip and I called the hotel, he kept ignoring that. MIL said that she thinks he did not know about the registry. She told me he seemed very surprised. She also said he is worried. I did tell him that I heard two years ago about those two and them having an affair. He wanted to know why I didn't tell him then. I told him, I was afraid because the last time this happened and I told him, he walked out on me and the boys.

He did tell me he loved me, he has called me a zillion times today. He will not tell the truth, everytime I try to tell him, I start to lose it. I thought I was ready to do this in a strong, confident manner.

He said it is being removed. I checked his e-mail She sent a removal for Bed Bath & Beyond, so there was more than one out there. Target is still there.

I think I need to regain my composure, and try again. This time, it will be in letter format, with copies of what I have.

He is worried about this getting out and ruining his reputation. Is that why he wants to be married.

He said the registry was a joke. What a feeble lie. FOG FOG FOG

I wonder what will happen next?

Sue,
haven't posted for a while, I lurked though.
If I may suggest smth : please plan HOW you are going to hand your H your writings. Because I failed there.
See, two days ago after carrying my plan B letter for months I decided to give it to my H.
He refused to take it. Period. I too thought I am emotionally well prepared for that moment and the time seemed right. I did not cry, said why I need to move forward yet I lacked assertiveness or confidence or courage to just hand this letter over so he would hold keep it. He said he doesn't have time for my "scenes", that I always freak out when he leaves etc heartless comments.

So he left again for another trip and this time I am very seriously afraid he is going to meet OW for emotional and physical fulfilment.

I can't imagine what's in the works behind my back in light of your discoveries; as you know I don't snoop, other than I encounter facts in the open, I have no idea what's in the communication between them , other than I am 99% sure they keep in very frequent email/phone/text messaging contact.

SS provided big encouragement for me; see I could endure pain of rejection and betrayal if due to my shortcomings and "spur of the moment" or perception of love, but not ongoing cheating and lies, and false promises when cornered.

H is coming back next week; I did as much of plan A in last month as he let me.
He is not nice or pleasant nor he talks or wants anything to do with me. I am basically alone with little EN filled by him in the past 2 years. Rationally I am not risking much by going into plan B - possible dissapointment if the finances/living arrangements will become a sore issue. Then my $LB bank will be almost empty. So I know I have to proceed soon.
I am scared how I will cope in plan B.
And there never seems to be a good timing for it. But more and more I see this is inevitable because I can only count on myself to leave the triangle.

Sue, I pray for you,
FBOW

You've held so much in for so long everytime you open your mouth the flood gates open up. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I hope you are feeling a little more confident today.

Dear Sue:

Calm down. Take a deep breath and say to yourself: "I am a strong woman, I can handle this".

You are a strong woman. I know that because I have seen your determination to get your degree, your license and be a good mother to three kids at the same time. You are strong and you can deal with this.

It is NORMAL to break down crying when you talk to your H about him having an A. It is the worst heart breaking experience for a BS ever. You are doing what any of us would have done. Now look objectively at the result of exposing the A. He is calling you multiple times, still lying but he wants to be with YOU (Repeat: YOU!!!! Not OW but YOU!!!!).

So?...so far so good. Now get your act together:
#1 AND #2 AND #3: BOUNDARIES

No contact with OW. End the A. Start to work on your M.

What leverage do you have, Sue, to enforce those boundaries? - Very clear answer: You can remove yourself from the situation. Plan B.

You have to change 180 degrees. You were so honest to tell him that you have known and turned a blind eye to his A for two years...not a good move...but anyway: NOW you have reached your limit. This is it. From now on boundaries. If you don't do this you will end up with a H who is a fencesitter/cake eater. Do not allow that to happen. Do not enable him to contimue the A and have you on the side, destroying your love and breaking your heart. You have to be strong here Sue and you have to appear strong to him. Very very important.

Don't beg, don't plead. Show him that you are the best he has ever had (he knows that already-believe me). Be beautiful (put on nice clothes, do your hair, buy waterproof mascara to withstand tears- no kidding!), be strong and determined, show him what treasure he would loose. Eat small portions- with this stress you'll loose ten pounds in a week.

You got to get in battle mode. Kick OW out of his brains for good. You are so much better than her.
You are strong and determined. To keep you he has to change his behavior, end this A and become an honorable man again.

You have a lot of support, Sue. Seems your MIL and your family are on your side. And you have MB - just wait for all the comments tumbling in on your thread today.

I am glad I checked on you. Remember Sue: This is marriagebuilders and no matter how desperate the situation looks there are so many success stories here. You wrote to me many times 20 months ago when I was a crying mess. You checked on me, you gave me a pat on the back and simply the feeling that you were looking out for me. I cannot thank you enough for that. My H and I have walked that rocky road of recovery and today our life has its peace and happiness again (at least on most days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> still a work in progress on other days).

You just started walking on the recovery road. You did the first step.

Good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

Love

I am better today than yesterday, I still break down, but I pull myself together faster.

H is still worried. He wants me to meet him for lunch and bring our daughter. We have met before for lunch, but he is worried. He has every reason to be

He has alot to lose here: me, the kids, the house, cars, his reputation, friends (all except one, who I know knows about the A)

I need to fine tune the letter. I know I will not be able to discuss it with out it. I see it now.

I hope she was worth risking losing everthing he could lose.

I'll be back later. Gotta go to the store then work. I need to regroup myself

FBOW-I'm sorry your H is being such a dufus. You are a good person who deserves so much better than he is giving you. You have shown that you have strenght. I don't think we are ever ready for confronting, and Plan B. I see it now. But we just have to pull ourselves together and face it. I'm trying to be strong and not spend all my time crying. When I feel like crying at home, I decided I will either clean, write or work out. Redirect the energy. I want to show him I am strong and can make it without him if I have to.

Sue, I totally sympathize with what you are going thru as far as the talking about the A. I have a very hard time telling someone what I am upset with them about, if it is something I am emotional about it's even worse. I'll just cry then get pissed off at myself for not being able to say what is on my mind. Writing is probably a very good way to get out what is on your mind right now.

I too am praying for you. Hang in there hun.

Sue:

don't wonder if OW was worth it. She wasn't and besides that is not how WSs think in their fog. Your H has just been kicked out of the Alien space ship. And with a hard jolt he has landed back on Earth.

Good that he wants to have lunch with you. Good that he wants to be close with you. More than good ...GREAT!!!

Now he has to figure out how to clean up his life. Meaning break up with OW and turn around his M. I am glad that you are doing better today. A lot of what will happen now depends on the messages you will be sending to him. DO NOT LET HIM BELIEVE FOR ONE MILISECOND THAT HE WOULD GET AWAY WITH CONTINUING THE A!!!

But I got the sense from your last post that you are already very determined to put your foot down and show him what you need him to do.

Good Sue, very good! Keep going strong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
You can do it. You are one strong woman!

I intend to set boundaries. These are boundaries I need, anything else, well, even if I compromised, it would come back and bite me in the butt. I would be less than satisfied with the resolution of this A and I don't know if over time, if I would be happy in the M.

Wish me luck. I realize I cannot hold off until the end of the month which was my original plan.

Prayers and hopes for a positive outcome for you, and for you to feel strength and confidence in you - you know you don't need him. He knows that too. It will be a relief for you to get the whole truth out of him, if he chooses to continue being married to you. So he has to live up to your wishes. He'd better start cracking the MB books.

Sue,

My thoughts and prayers are with you. Like Kayla, I believe an enormous weight will fall from your shoulders when this is all out in the open. Sending you massive cyber hugs and good vibes!

I don't know if I will make it through the weekend without screaming at him. I have to get through the weekend. OS has a hockey tournament. WH is the coach. If he leaves after this, we will have to work out something for this.

I'm very nervous, scared, you name it. WH already thinks things are okay. Or he is at least behaving that way. Then again, maybe he is still worried. He called me at least 3 times tonight. He usually does not call me at all.

I feel so nauseated. Just like when I first found out. I didn't eat for two weeks, when I did, i practically chocked on it. I'm eating, but not much. Mostly because I don't want anyone to see me not eating.

Right now, I go back and forth between wanting to try to save my marriage and walking away. I have papers for filing for divorce. Do I fill them out? Don't I fill them out? I don't know what I want.

I think I liked it when I kept myself angry. At least then I could lash out. I don't have the energy to lash out. Gotta get back to work. OS has his very first hockey tournament this weekend. WH is the coach. What would all those parents think if they knew the truth?

Don't feel like you have to make a decision today Sue. See how things go with your H, but make sure you set firm boundaries for yourself. Do your best to eat when you can.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SwH:
...... What would all those parents think if they knew the truth? <hr /></blockquote>Sue-

Hey, there. I'm sorry you are having to go through this. I know it feels terrible. My prayers for you and your kids. You are feeling a lot of emotion right now and need to concentrate on what needs to be done. I know, easier said than done. You've come a long way Sue.

About what others think......it doesn't matter. I struggled with this for a long time and still do occassionally. My STBXW had affairs with clients, two of her adult students. Her supervisors eventually were told. She still works for this organization today in essentially the same role as before. It didn't matter to the supervisors. A neighbor found out about the affairs. This neighbor was called as a witness during our final hearing and testified that she knew of my STBXW's affairs. She still testified that it would be in our childrens' best interest if my STBXW would be awarded full custody of the children because I was seen as too much of a disciplinarian around the kids, rigid in my rules, and a bad influence on the kids.

Sue, it doesn't matter what the other parents think. What needs to be done is to fix the marriage and if that means moving to a Plan B to help you save what little love is left and to stop LBing in front of your WH, then that has to be done. You know where you can get help. Sometimes Sue, the kids are going to miss a hockey game or other activities, but what is more important right now? Try to get help from friends and their friends' parents in moving the kids around. You're not alone.

Best to you. {{{{{Sue}}}}}

HoFS

I have to try to change my mood. I'm so down. I feel like you do when you are on the verge of crying but can't. My stomach is in knots, I feel anxious. I guess it is Zoloft time. My Dr. gave me some sample (okay, he gave me two months worth). I didn't need it. Maybe now I do.

H has called me at work 4 times so far (record number for him). I'm lucky if he calls me once a day. Anyway, because I'm down, it sounds that way when I answer the phone. A stranger may not notice it, but he does. He keeps thinking I'm crying.

I don't want to sound like this at all. I want to sound strong, confident. I also don't want him thinking I accepted his excuse. Because I know it is a LIE.

He even commented I don't sound like a woman who is going to spend the night in a motel. Even if all this had not happened I probably would not be doing flips over spending the night in the motel. After all, there will be 3 kids with. Not much happening there.

What was his excuse for all this anyway? I'm sorry you are feeling so anxious, it will take a little while for that to pass. Your body is in shock right now and you probably fear more bad news could be around the corner. Is there anyway you can get your hands on some xanax? (not sure if I spelled that right) It might help take the edge off and help you to eat and sleep a little. I know they shouldn't be taken long term, but it helps you to calm down some.

Do you know if your H has told OW anything?

Hi Sue,

Long time no see -

I think this is a good thing. I think you needed it to get going again. You were kind of stuck and this marriage stuff was affecting your whole life.

Remember some things as you go through this.

Remember that none of us are perfect. You want to do better? Welcome to the club. Just do the best you can, and that will be good enough - because you can't do it any better than that.

I don't know all the things going through your mind, but I can well imagine some of it.

Remember that you worked all this out before, and you know what to do. You really do know what to do - and I think you can do it.

Remember that there really is a God, and he loves you and wants you to succeed. He will help as much as he can without taking away your H's free will. Remember that you have help.

Remember that you have many friends praying for you. You have people behind you that care. Remember that counts for something, it's not just a kind thought.

Remember that you don't have to accept lies. You can call him on them. You don't need to tell him how you know, but you can call him on ever lie and walk away until he is willing to deal in the truth exclusivly.

Remember that (as many others have said) you can go it alone if you need to - you have choices and you are free.

Remember that you are free to choose what you will do, just as he is free to choose.

Many times we wish we could help more - this is one of those times. I believe there are better than even odds that you will succed and that your M will have a good future.

I'm a believer.

SS

Thanks everyone for your kind words.

WH's excuse - it was a joke, neither one of them know how it got there.

Well, I know how it got there. She put it there. Prior to this, she has been sending e-mails regarding them getting married.

I told H, it was not a joke, jokes are funny, this was cruel. I also said to WH, how do you know she didn't do it. I told him I knew about KQ, and I called the hotel. He ignored that, as if it will go away. It has not gone away yet, so why would it now.

I wanted to let him know I did not accept his excuse, so I told him that his answer was not right, it did not fit and I will figure it out.

Soon, very soon will this all be behind me. I will either be raising three children alone or we will be working this out.

Weekend was much better than I thought it would be. OS lost the tournament. They will get over it.

WH was very good and attentive. I was moody. Did my best to not let it show. Mostly feeling down.

Its time for the face off with your evidence, Sue. A full-blown exposure of his lies. His "excuse" is so pathetic I can't believe you weren't insulted by it. They BOTH are insulting your intelligence and I hate to sayit, you are allowing it.

I've been watching and wishing for you since March 2003. Just like everyone here, I want only the absolute BEST for you.

Its time you get it for yourself, Sue. We are all here for you.

[ January 19, 2004, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: mojodiva ]

Just checkin in on ya Sue. I hope you are doing okay.

I'm doing okay. Nothing new going on. Mostly thinking, working. Story of my life. Work, sleep, work sleep.

Hi Sue,
We worry a little more now that you put things part way out in the open.

It looks like to me (after thinking about it for a few days) that he is afraid of YOU LEAVING HIM.

That may not last long, and he may become MR Sneak again, but I hope he starts to really think.

By now you have done lots more thinking. You worry about lots of things and sometimes the more you think about things the worse it gets. (in your mind)

I hope you can get it out of your mind and spend your time working on things you can change. I still think you can do a good job of this, and that comes from watching you for close to two years now.

God be with you.

SS

[ January 26, 2004, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SwH,

Have followed you all along.

Agree with the above post. We are worried about you.

Hope you are okay. Please update.

Prayers for you.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Everyone who has posted or not posted, thank you for your concern.

Sorry I have not been here much. Not much to say.

I worked this past weekend, the weekends I work, well, those weekends, are pretty much gone. I work Fridays during the day, go home, go to bed, get up around 9 for work, work 11-7, come home, go to bed, get up at 10, take daughter to dance, come home, maybe go back to bed (probably not) (depends upon S#1 and S#2 hockey schedule). Go back to bed between 5-7, even if i don't sleep, I rest. Get up at 9 or 9:30, work 11-7, come home sunday, go to bed, with the intention of getting up for church at 9. I usually sleep through the alarm, and get up around 11. Boys hockey schedules again. (one for sure has hockey on Saturday and Sunday, other one usually has goalie clinic, if not a practice and or game). Try to catch up on laundry so kids have clean clothes for school. (Yes, WH, does try to help in this area. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) Sometimes it scares me, and other times he does a really good job. (Yes, undwear and jeans should be seperated before washing, and I don't mean before putting both in the machine at the same time).

I've been trying to get my courage up to confront. I know I have to. It is time.

My deadline is almost near. Son's birthday is this week, party is this weekend. My deadline I gave myself was middle son's birthday. I would not confront before that time. If the results are not what I want, and pray for, I did not want to ruin his birthday. Lined up some apartments to look at. Talked to a lawyer, maybe, if I could save enough, I may not have to move the kids from the house. I will have to decide which way I'm going to go. Apartment? House? I hate to say it, but I think Apartment will be the most practical. There is three buildings right across my where 3, yes 3 of my sisters live. If I checked into those, I would have family close by to help with the kids. (Have to have a plan in case he decides he wants to be with her.)

I'll be back, have to work now

How long is your scedule going to continue like this?

I think your tears on the last big conversation (with him) that you related to us were perhaps largely from fatigue.

Are you getting any time to rest and think before you have this big discussion? I encourage you to do so.

You have been through much, what would you like to see from us? Or what would help you feel the most support?

SS

Winning lotto numbers so I could get that much needed rest.

Seriously, that is why last weekend was bad, I know I cannot confront on a weekend I have to work. I will be too tired.

As I said, I gave myself this deadline. This the first time, there was some sort of date involved. (Even if it was not totally difinitive). In the past, it was very generalized. If I was sticking to that timeline, I would not be close to confronting. (I still need that full time nursing job, remember).

I decided before Christmas that I would confront after shortly after middle son's birthday. I'm sticking with that timeline. Maybe it will be after his party, when the kids are in bed. Came close today. I know I'm almost ready. I don't know what I am waiting for. Maybe for me to be ready. Are we ever ready? Probably not. I will know when I am ready. I recall when I found out I was pregnant with OS. (we were not married, so anyone who wants to condenm me for having a child out of wedlock go right ahead. I can think of worse things I could have done. It would not be the first time. I actually had a so called friend, tell me I brought this upon myself, and God was punishing me for having sex before marriage. I guess we are no longer friends). Anyway, prior to finding out I was pregnant, I was debating about ending my relationship with WH. I realized he was not over the ghost of his Xwife. I realized I was always being compared to her. I had decided I was not going to compete with her memory. I spent two weeks trying to decide if I should give him more time or end it. I finally made a decision to end it, left him a message to see me when he was finished working. Later that day, something told me to get a pregnancy test done, so I did. Well, I found out I was pregnant. So, I didn't know at that time, do I stick with my original decision or just tell him I am pregnant. When he came over, I told him I was pregnant, and never told him I did not want to see him anylonger.

I know that this will be the same thing. I need time to give this my undivided attention (if that is possible with 3 kids). Confront him with what I know. It will happen, and soon. Honestly, I am feeling quite content with this whole thing. I know soon will be sooner than anyone thinks, probably even myself.

Hey, Sue, I have an idea.

AT POST NUMBER "1000", CONFRONT HIM!

HECK, IT IS AS GOOD A TIME AS ANY!.

I decided it is time to rebuild my self esteem. I need to do this for me. Find me again. I am going to start counseling, for me.

[ January 27, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

I just had an interesting conversation with my MIL. WH asked MIL if she could change her weekends that she works to be the same as my weekend. He told her, if she could do that, then WH and I could start going out more and have more time together. She asked him what about the kids, he said, I will watch them, they are my kids. As it is right now, MIL and I work opposite weekends. So, her weekends off, the kids usually spend alot of time over there. They have some friends from her neighborhood they like to play with, and they like being with Grandma.

I was surprised to hear this from her. I never thought in a million years that he would think or suggest such a thing.

I'm not putting too much into this, but I hope it is an indication that things are improving with us, and that I and our marriage matter to him.

[ January 30, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Sue,

I spent whole day today reading your posting "Strong Suspect". I really admire your corage and strength.

I am new here. I had my 1st post "what should I do?" and got many helpful advice. I still don't know how to confrom with my H. I will pray for you and me.

Lost,

Right now things are going well with us, that I don't want to ruin it by confronting. That does not make it go away. I know I need to confront, so we can have some honesty in our relationship.

It is hard to be in this position. If I could do it all again, I would have done it differently.

First, I would have pushed the honesty issue before we got married
I would have insisted on NC

I was not strong enough back then.

I'm stronger now, than I was then, but I need to pull out that last bit of strength and do what is the right thing to do.

I did not get to see my OS play in his last two games. I did not get home in time from work on Friday, and Saturday Daughter was sick, I was sleeping from working the night shift, so her and I slept all day together. I had the chance to work some extra hours, so I grabbed it. Being the most recent hired, I'm the last they call when looking for a replacement. I don't get called often.

I have to bake cookies this week, approx 10 doz. (yes, I said 10 doz., if I don't have time to bake, I have no problems with buying.)

Hi Sue,
I wish Cerri would visit you and talk to you about this:

Right now things are going well with us, that I don't want to ruin it by confronting. That does not make it go away. I know I need to confront, so we can have some honesty in our relationship. It is hard to be in this position.

She is much better at me in pointing out the reality of things - and you need to hear it from someone.

Perhaps (this is NOT, I repeat NOT a 2x4) we should take out the word confront, and put something else in it's place. I remind you that if he is continuing an A, things are not going well between you, you are just having good days - but the bad ones will come around again, and you will be just a little lower than you were the last time down, and that last one almost wrecked you. If you have to, write it all down, send it to cerri for comments, and then give it to him, but don't put it off. He is afraid, but if you don't do it, that fear will dissipate and the cycle will start over.

If I could do it all again, I would have done it differently.
We can always see the past better from the future, but we don't get to go back, and you did what you thought was best. Don't 2nd guess yourself, you are looking at this from a much improved place - but we take what we get, so please believe you did what you could, and live RIGHT NOW the best you can.

First, I would have pushed the honesty issue before we got married would have insisted on NCI was not strong enough back then. I'm stronger now, than I was then, but I need to pull out that last bit of strength and do what is the right thing to do.

See, you do know what is needed.

I did not get to see my OS play in his last two games. I did not get home in time from work on Friday, and Saturday Daughter was sick, I was sleeping from working the night shift, so her and I slept all day together. I had the chance to work some extra hours, so I grabbed it. Being the most recent hired, I'm the last they call when looking for a replacement. I don't get called often.

This tells me that life continues in the fast lane, at about 40 over the speed limit. Do you have a cape with a big red "S" on it, or do you keep it quiet so as to not draw attention to yourself?

I have to bake cookies this week, approx. 10 doz. (yes, I said 10 doz., if I don't have time to bake, I have no problems with buying.)

10 DZ. - lets see, that's about 2 dz. per batch, so that's five batches to go through the oven - but at least it's winter and it doesn't make the house too hot like it does in the summer.

The big question here is: What are all the cookies for?
Come on, we want to know.

Back to the word confront - you don't have to make it into a production.

It can be something as simple as this:

Dear H,

I know you have been having an A with ___________.

I know about:
(List events that you know about that he did with her)
to name a few- and I know it has been ongoing. One of the reasons I got my nursing degree was so I can leave if you choose to continue to communicate with her.

These are the things I need from you if you want me to stay:
1. NC with her ever again.
2. Earn back my trust.
You must be willing to account for your time......... and so on, and so on.
3. Counseling
4.
complete the list, based on what you need.

I want with all my heart for us to stay together, and I am willing to work on it, but after all that has happened, you only get this one chance, and if you try to continue to see, or talk to her, and hide it, it is all over. I am not willing to play games, I am not willing to look the other way, I am not willing to accept excuses. You can tell the truth, and work on this, or you can leave, but you won't have anything to do with me if you can't start telling the truth RIGHT NOW.

Sincerely,
Sue in Minn.

Now, this is not a really good job, and I know you could do a better one standing on your head, but it can be simple. Just don't mince words, and don't write anything you are not willing to do.

Sue, don't stop half way through - get this finished. If you have to take a day off, and sleep first, then do it, but don't leave it hanging so that he thinks things are back to normal and he can continue - I don't think you will last through a re-start of the bad stuff.

God be with you.

SS

Sue,

ss is so right my dear. While things are good...is the best time to confront. Just think about it this way: At which time do you think confrontation is most likely to lead to the end of an affair and marital recovery? When he feels close to you? Or when he is distant from you? Clearly, you have the best chance of ending the affair if he is attracted to you. Do not miss this opportunity chere. The time is now. Confrontation is not an argument....it's the beginning of REAL recovery instead of the false recovery you are attempting to protect now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Star said:
Confrontation is not an argument....it's the beginning of REAL recovery instead of the false recovery you are attempting to protect now.<hr /></blockquote>I was looking for the words, and couldn't find them. You said it so well, and I second it.

SS

The cookies, are for the tournament (and I will probably find myself buying instead of baking)

A day off, hard for me to do unless I have a sick kid, I'm sick or a vacation planned. I have worked since I have been 16, without a break in working, and it was not unusual to see me working two jobs over the summer.

Some will disagree with me, but I am going to Vegas. WH is looking forward to this trip, he is trying to find events for us to attend. Money will be tight, but I need a break, time away from everything. Vegas, it will not be a trigger for me. He is very interested in making this a fun trip for the two of us. So, contrary to some advice, I decided to go on the trip, have fun, come home, then confront. I'm not doing this to stall, I really think it will be good for us to do this. I believe it will be helpful to the M. and if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. It will not be the first time and wont' be the last. I also am not stalling. I am following instinct.

Let me explain it like this. (I know there is a huge difference between marriage and cars). Whenever I followed my gut, things had a way of working out. Such as buying a used car. When I bought a car, that I just knew was a good car, that car lasted me a good two to 4 years. (Keep in mind, I usually pay 500-1500 for used cars). When I had to be talked into that car and I give in to the pressure, the car usually gave me one good year, and I had to stick $$ after $$ just to keep it running another year.

All I can say is, it feels right to do it this way. I don't know why, it feels right, it just does. I know, that many will try to rationalize/analyze, what ever. However, when instinct is telling me that this is right, I cannot ignore it. Sort of like when I knew Nursing was the right thing for me to do. I just knew it. Somethings just cannot be rationalized.

Hi Sue
You know that I am behind you in your decision.
I am here for you a listening ear,or a shoulder to cry on what ever you need.

Please Sue we all know that I am no expert but do what is right for you.That is all the advise I can give you.

And let me help you in the self esteem dept.
You Sue are a wonder,smart,beautiful,compasionate,loving,
strong,woman and I admire all your strengths.

If it feels right do it! huh?....is the same rationale that folks who enter affairs follow.....what a great motto! (NOT!) Follow your gut! even if that means selling your soul huh? This isn't a car Sue. And you aren't the only one in it....are you?

Most of what Dr.H says is counter-intuitive....he knows that....he SAYS that. He says it all the time. Because he knows that people prefer to follow their instincts...and do what feels right instead of what works. Has YOUR gut managed to end this affair or stabilize your marriage and family so far? Because that's been the way you've dealt with this all along isn't it? That's one reason why Harley set up this board....to help people understand that following your gut when it comes to infidelity (cars not withstanding...yikes)....is asking for trouble. Sue...I'd rather you were mad at me...than allow you to think that this sort of logic will benefit you in anyway but the short term.

Penny often says..."I don't do nice"....and I'm going to have to adopt her persona on this one. You want to fool yourself with this blather....I can't stop you....but I ain't buying it either. What you are saying (to me) is that you would rather go to Las Vegas and have a good time...because you need it, and can avoid conflict a little longer....than you are committed to ending the affair.

If a short vacation in a place that frankly celebrates excess and exploitation....is a good choice for you right now....I'll quit the board. Don't mistake my candor for anger. All of us must live with our own decisions. But please, please....don't ask me to believe this isn't another stall because I know better. The only difference....is that for a change you have to choose between fun (which has been in short supply) and integrity (which has been compromised for so long...what's a week in vegas gonna matter?). Just remember though, I'm the type that thinks that the stakes are way too high to put on a black jack table and I'm too smart to buy into the rationale that that this is kosher. Nope.

You want to sell me on this....okay...tell me the truth. "I KNOW I should confront instead of going to Vegas....but you know what? I'm more interested in having a good time right now than dealing with this. I want to escape....and I'm weak, and tired and worn out...and I'm dying to have a little fun." THAT I would understand/believe. That would make sense to me. I might even say...."God knows you deserve some fun". I might even reserve the "but"....but then again....I might not. Why? Because I KNOW what's at stake. I see it everyday.

And one more thing....I care about you...I truly do....forgive me for the 2X4...it's not my style and I probably don't do "tough" very well. So if I messed it up....I'm sorry.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I don't know why, it feels right, it just does. I know, that many will try to rationalize/analyze, what ever. However, when instinct is telling me that this is right, I cannot ignore it.<hr /></blockquote>I've heard this same thing before, I think. Where was it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> *wracking my brain* Oh yeah! From about 30 WSs.

One of the biggest mistakes I see people make is in avoiding taking necessary steps because they think they are safer in the status quo. They think they are standing still when, in fact, the situation is doing a drastic downhill sprint.

People are afraid of taking risks and afraid of rocking the boat. People tend to be afraid that they are going to fall out of the boat. You need to do some rocking because the boat is sinking anyway.

Staying in a holding pattern isn't keeping you safe, nor will it save your marriage. Instead, you are an active accomplice in the secrecy and deception that feeds and nurtures the affair. Conflict avoidance is just a nice way of saying that you deceive and pretend because you fear facing the truth. Iour denial of the truth doesn't make it less true, and it doesn't keep your marriage from dying.

I'll bet my front teeth that OW isn't in a holding pattern.

[ February 02, 2004, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]

Sue,

Don't fool yourself. I did it with all I can. It is not worse than where I was.

I just saw my Dr., then I will talking to Steve. I am determined to do all i can to save the marriage, but it GOD did not see that way, I will accept it too.

Remember that there are a lot of good man out there, your H is not the only man in the whole world. Your deserve something better.

Dear Sue:

catching up on the events from the past few days...You and H had that ONE conversation where his excuse was that the marriage registry with OW at Target was a "joke"? You let it go...did not confront more. H on the other hand got scared, called you a lot, spent time with you.

Where did all that go after a week or two -back to status quo? He knows that you know about his A AND you are enabling him to continue this! Did you even ask for NC? Did you ask H to start working on marital recovery? Does he know he could loose you? Do you feel he is not seeing OW anymore?

Often there are parts missing in what one posts here. Sometimes these parts of the puzzle are important...Sue: what are we missing?

I don't understand how you can go back to tolerating his A?

Hi Sue,

I wonder where you are, and what the pain level is this week.

Lets see, how do you nurses put it?

ON a scale of 1 to 10, what would you say is the pain level this week?

You realize that those who use the 2x4 do it only because they have been there, and they understand the pain, and they want you to be pain free. You know that, but it is still hard to be where you are, to have taken what you have taken, and get hit from another direction.

Remember that these folks love you. Remember that we want what is best for you.

I am sure that the weekends continue to be a sleep deprived experiance. If H is working at least you don't have money problems this month. I am glad for a little happiness, beause you have gone too long with little or none of that, but do a new time line now so we won't worry so much about you.

When is LV if you do go? And why in the world would you go there? I am going for business, but it's not my favorite place.

But then, I admit I like quiet and solitude and the low insurance rates that go with country living.

When you update next, pleast tell us how you are emotionally. You have omitted that lately in favor of the THINGS that are happening, but we want to know the vitals.

God be with you.

SS

I'm here and emotionaly I am fine.

I don't hate anyone for speaking their mind. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. And I realize that this is because they mean well.

Are you really emotionally fine?

Yes, I am really emotionally fine. I had a great time in Las Vegas. I needed a vacation. I had not had REAL vacation that lasted longer than 3 days in over 10 years. I needed to get away from work, kids (as much as I love them, I needed time for ME). Which I took. You can have fun in Las Vegas and not spend all your time in a casino and I like going to Las Vegas. I don't like going alot, but I like going once in a while. This was not my first trip to Las Vegas.

Next is a hockey tournament this weekend. One I am looking forward to.

If you are fine, H must be treating you better.

Hope it continues.

Yes, you do need time for you - and on the schedule you have been on, that is almost impossible.

Glad you were able to catch your breath, now lets see if you can improve and maintain the relationship. (Or lets see if H will improve and hold up his end of it.)

Still praying - happy you are doing better. Was really worried for a few weeks there.

SS

WH was very attentive on the trip. He kept wondering if he was not paying enough attention. Especially the day I chose to spend about 4 - 6 hours in the room pampering myself. I really enjoyed the time alone, the time to do all the things for myself that I have troubles getting alone time to do. Especially with a very curious 5 year old in the house. He kept calling the room wanting to know if I was okay. It was called time for me to do a facial, pedicure, manicure, etc. I sat back and vegged out in front of the TV. (Not much to watch on hotel TV.), read a chapter in a book (a real book, not a book that has nursing stuff in it).

Now, I am trying to finish packing so we can leave for the tournament.

Where do you plan to go from here?

Are things improved that much?

SS

Where to go from here? I don't know

Have things improved that much? Maybe - not sure if it is permanent. This is the longest he has gone with being good to me, so it is a start.

Questions no one has asked me.

Did I do a good Plan A? Probably not. I was too goal focused on finishing school, passing boards and finding employment to really concentrate on my marraige. During this time, I mostly pushed my marriage aside, and I was not going to let anything interfere with my finishing school.

Sometime before Christmas is when I actually started really and truly working on my marriage. Prior to that, I did it in bits and pieces.

He bought me a Valentines card without any prompting from me. Honestly, I forgot about getting him anything because of the tournament we were in.

Sue,

It's far easier to "pretend" that everything is okay/better when you're taking trips and are firmly in denial...but when the dust settles everything will be the same. It's kinda like getting drunk...it feels great when you're high...but it doesn't change a thing....and the bottom just gets deeper. As far as questions not asked....I can only say that for most of us...it sounded like you did a pretty damn good plan A (well at least the parts of it you were willing to do anyway)....for an interminable amount of time too. Plan A has a time limit....or it just becomes a vehicle for cake eaters and doormats. Your trip to vegas didn't upset anyone. Do you honestly think anyone here thought you didn't DESERVE a vacation? It's your rationalization for these events....the feeling that you have not really been honest with the folks here that have tried so hard to help...that has this thread dying on the vine. Not for us. We don't have to live your life. But for those of us who truly care about how you are really treated (vegas not withstanding)....it hurts us FOR YOU. I don't give a flying weenie if he was Prince Charming in Vegas if behind your back he's been making wedding plans with this OW and giving cockamamee stories about the registry at Target. Have you ever...in all the time I have spent on this board...ever seen me mad? I am furious at the thought that you might spend one more single day in this charade....not AT you...FOR you. What I can't for the life of me figure out...is why aren't you mad? Where did you learn that it was okay to be treated this way? And I'll tell you this...there isn't a caribbean cruise, a trip to the oscars, or a week in Paris...that would convince me to share my husband with another woman. You sold yourself out. You deserve better. So do your kids.

Sue..here is one of your first posts from June of 2002:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I keep thinking I should start a new thread under PlanA, I don;t know what i would call it. So for now, I will stay here.
I think Plan A is working. Kids went up north for the weekend with Grandma. It gave us a mini vacation at home. Time alone, no distractions, no kids. We went out for breakfast, tore down part of a deck, went out for dinner, and spent the evening relaxing at home. Saterday he did not do his usual 3-5 hour disappearing act. Sunday he did go golfing. How long does it take t play an 18 hole course? He was gone for about 4 hours. We went bike riding when he came home. Watching me walk this morning was somewhat comical - I have not ridden a bike in about 20 years so the muscles are discussing a mutiny. The exercise and dieting is working. About 2 or 3 weeks ago I bought some new jeans, old ones were getting big. I bought these a tad tight, want to get some mileage out of them for when I lose more weight. These are fitting like they should have when I bought them.

I think the H likes to take me out to dinner now. In the past we would go out to eat (I was a size 8). We would order appetizer, meal. I would eat all of my meal, and what he could not finish of his. Sometimes a dessert would be thrown in. An hour later I would be hungry. Now, I have a few bites and I am stuffed. He gets my leftover steak in his lunch the next day.

Anyway, I'm feeling pretty good about myself these days. I'm sure he is still in contact with her.

I've decided that Plan A will last about 1 year. When I am finished with school, pass state boards, and find new employment, if things have not changed, I will confront and implement Plan B. I cannot and will not live this way indefinetly. I feel that by the time I am done with school will be more than enough time for Plan to have had a positive effect on me and my M.

<hr /></blockquote>Your marriage has zero hope of recovery until the affair is over....that is an honest fact. Anything else...is just an illusion and probably temporary.

[ February 18, 2004, 06:43 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

PLEASE LISTEN TO STAR*FISH.

Sue, I've still been watching and reading, but I will honestly tell you I am very, very frustrated with and for you.
You are doing what I did a year and a half ago. I started blaming myself way too much and him too little. Don't do it.

Pretending the problem isn't there won't make it go away. I do not want to believe you enjoy the drama this is causing in your life. Its time to confront, for real, Sue.

I have ALMOST posted to you for a week now, but I keep wondering what to say.

Let's just say I worry about you. You know what I worry about.

You and only you - know if my worry is justified.

You still have friends, support, and prayers.
Hope it's enough.

SS

Dear Sue:

we just got back from our vacation in Arizona and the first thing I wanted to check on MB was how you are doing.

Sue, I have to tell you this in all honesty: I feel that you have changed. Your posts sound different. You sound different. do you feel that your MB friends here are wrong in what they write to you?

What has been happening with you?

Love

I know everyone means well, and really do care. And I know what has been said is because they care.

I don't like being told I'm in denial when I am not. I know the state my marriage is in. I know a trip to Vegas or anywhere is not the end all cure all. If it was, travel agencies would be a booming industry partnering with MC's.

I know my feelings, I also know I am very good at putting them aside. But, I know they are still there and are not going anywhere and I will have to deal with it at some point in my life.

I never said my husband's affair is my fault. I put the blame right where it belongs, on both WH and OW. They made the decision, I did not.

Sue,

I know I'm being hard on you...and I'm suffering through it believe it or not because I don't think I do the whole 2X4 with much grace. My main purpose is NOT to hurt you, but I know I have. Still, I would rather you were "angry" than "apathetic".

If you were my sister, I'd probably physically shake you. I know you read the old post of yours I brought up, so I know you recognize how little this situation has changed. But what has changed...at least what I've been praying has changed...is that you have reached a point in your life where you KNOW you CAN confront and expose (the other forgotten steps of Plan A)...so I'm confused about why you won't. And I don't think it's Vegas. Vegas is a the symptom, not the disease. The disease is fear.

So why not just put it out there. Then we can stop talking about vacations are start talking about the real issue....fear. I don't blame you for being afraid. This is damn scary. But going on vacation is not going to get that ugly monster out of the closet. The only thing that does that....is turning on the light (confrontation and exposure). Are you afraid he'll choose her? Are you afraid he'll leave? Are you afraid he'll be violent? What the heck is it chere....because none of this makes sense? It's not logical and it's destructive to you as a person.

My brother's little boy was a tender soul. When ever he was fussed at....he would look at you and whimper "That's it. I've lost my power. Now I'm only half-powered." I used to tell him "Come see. I'm the recharger...I've got beaucoup power and I'll give ya some." You need some power Sue. You're accepting a situation that is poison for your soul. Surely being the "victim" of this must be tiring and devasting for you sense of self. You are becoming invisible...and I know what that feels like.

I wish I could just let you flounder...but you know what....I just can't. So I'm going be all over you like white on rice....and I'm going to keep asking "why" and "when". You know..that the "definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." To get different results....you have to do something different. Look at that old post....even back then you were talking about the kind of Plan A that goes on forever and beats you down.

I know you have heard on greater authority than I have that you are enabling your husband's affair. Why should he stop when you are willing accept it? Vegas is only the tip of the "acceptance" "enabling" "doormatitis" iceberg. Let us help you find the courage to do something that has some hope of changing your life. When I said "denial" I didn't mean you deny the existence of the affair....what I meant is that you deny the honesty necessary to end the affair. Honesty...that's what confrontation and exposure both are. That is the only thing that will free you from the lies you must live with.

Star*fish said it really well.
(thanks Star !)

What we want for you:

Reduced stress

A loyal, faithful spouse

Peace of mind

A true partner - full time, not part time.

Off the roller coaster

Someone you can share your heart with - because right now, there are things that can't be discussed.

Honesty

Ability to trust - and not have to wonder

No secrets

POJA - for everything

Support for your dreams

Support for your trials

Someone you can cry with, not because of.

Friends - when they are really good friends will sometimes say things you don't want to hear.

There are no easy ways to say some things.

We care about you -

SS

OK, Ok,

How's this?

Laugh and the world laughs with you -
Cry, and it really dilutes your beer.

I want to hear how you are doing - after all, you have so much spare time now days, you may as well post.

SS

I confronted him last night.

Right now, I am numb, confused, hurt, sad, everything all at one time.

He did not leave

This morning he said we can try

He said he will end it

There is still too much to do and say.

Right now, I am too numb to think

I told him, when he tells her, I want it to be via e-mail and I want to see it. He said okay, but he was not happy about it.

I dont' know if it has been done yet.

Right now, I want to take the kids and run far away from all of this and leave it behind and start over.

I dont' know when I will post again. I need time alone

Oh Sue,
((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))

Prayers for your healing.
Prayers for him to do the right thing.

Take the time you need, but if you want to talk, come back and see us.

You know I have not been where you are, and I can't tell you I know how you feel, but I feel for you, and I care about you. I think you know all of us care about you.

God be with you.

SS

Sue in the immortal words of Martin Luther King "the truth will set you free". Whatever happens from this point on....will at least be healthy and true. Of course he didn't leave...usually they don't. The affair ends. That's what happens. That's when recovery can begin. I will pray that this is a beginning for the two of you. Of course he is unhappy about ending the fantasy....but how unhappy have you been? For so long? How is this worse than living and sharing. Gather around the people who love you take some comfort in knowing you have acted in your own best interest, in the interest of your family and in the interest of your children. Why should this go on? It's wrong and ugly and it needs to stop. You did the right thing. Look at the big picture, and not just today. Imagine how broken you would be if this continued indefinitely and what freedom will taste like.

(((((((((((((((Sue))))))))))))))))
don't stay away from us too long...we care about you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am so very proud of you.I know how hard this was.I am here,just a phone call or email away.

Sue you are one of the most amazing women I have met.

Stay strong if you can but remember you are human its ok to hurt,it ok to cry and its ok to be angry.Let it all surface then start to heal.

You are loved by so many.
Take care my dear dear friend.
Ginger

Right now, I want to pack bags for me and the kids and run far far away. As far as I can get. I know that will not solve anything.

I have so many thoughts running through my mind. I don't know which are valid and which are not. Which are fear motivated, which are pain and hurt motivated. I keep crying on and off.

Gotta go,

Wait.

Just wait a few days. It will all settle down in your mind, and you will know.

After the initial shock wears off, you will be able to trust yourself again. This is normal for the very abmormal situation you are in. It is the fight or flight syndrome - you have studied it, you can see it if you think about it. We don't see safety in the unknown, and we want to run.

I have faith in you - Now you try it too.

SS

Dear Sue, my Hero,

I pray for results you hope for, but no matter what the outcome, YOU DID WHAT YOU COULD, kept doing it, despite pain, anger, tiredness, sadness, and fear.

I wish I could make the current anxiety easier for you. I do believe long term your actions will pay off - for you and for your family as well.
Hugs,
FBOW

WOW, I never thought I would see this! You brave women, you confronted him before your "number 1000" post on this MB thread! YOU WON! ding ding!

(member when I made that bet with your earlier)

I am proud of you! Now don't go back on yourself after that progress you made. Keep on going forward. There is a new and better life waiting for you if you continue on this difficult but "right" pathway!

I know I said I might not be posting for a while, guess MB is sort of like a drug. You keep coming back.

Right now, I'm very confused, I'm not going forward or back. Just sort of standing still. I love him, but I don't know if I want my marriage anymore. I really don't know if I want to save it or walk away. I often think of packing and leaving. I feel trapped right now.

He changed the password on his yahoo account. I knew he would.

I really don't believe he will end it. He said to her in the last e-mail "you are a big part of my life". He has never said that to me. Not once in our whole relationship. What does that say. As I think back on our relationship. I could probably count on both hand the number of times he said "I love you". That is in 12 years.

Even when he proposed, there was no "I love you", "I want to spend the rest of my life with you" nothing like that. What was I thinking when I agreed to marry him? I wasn't. That is all I can say. I was not thinking.
gott go

He changed the password on his yahoo account. I knew he would.

I believe you know what to do about this.

He has to earn his way back, and it sounds like he is not doing it.

So many things I want to ask, and or say. Don't know what to say, what to leave alone.

There are rules to recovery, and if he won't follow them, there IS NO RECOVERY.

You know what has to happen - guide him or give it to him, but don't let him get away with anything. His time for that is past. Make sure he knows that.

Oh shoot - you know all this stuff. Why do I worry so much?

Because of your feelings. We care about your feelings and how you are doing emotionally.

Prayers continue, would do more if it was possible.

SS

I don't really know how I am emotionally. I'm up, I'm down. I cry, I laugh, I'm sad, I'm thoughtful, mostly, I am emotionless.

I'm sitting here getting drunk right now. I think it is time to switch to plain diet coke and leave out the rum. I have a bad habit of getting mouthy when I am drunk. Right now, he is being a "good boy". Unless you count the taking the cell phone with when he walked the dog. Now, he hardly ever walked the dog.

He says he will try because of the kids. I don't know if I have it in me to try.

I think back, and I don't believe he loved me, not when he married me. I was such a fool. My friends back then were right. I can be so pigheaded. I know what I should do to try to save the marriage, I have to take time to decide, do I want to. I really dont' know.

I need answers and I have none

Why did he marry me? As I said before, he didn't say he loved me when he proposed. I was so happy he wanted to get married, I did not notice that.

Our first anniversary-we did nothing, I mean nothing. He blew it off

Why am I wanting to stay married to him?

I want to take my ring off and give it to him. I want to tell him when he is ready to completely commit, he can then put in back on my finger. (probably a bad idea)

How many affairs have there been? Has he ever been faithful to me? Honestly, I don't think so.

I think I want a divorce

Hi sue,

I haven't posted to you before but I have read some of your story.I just wanted to say that I think it was high time that you confronted your WH and now that part is over.If you haven't already,now is the best time to get into counseling and perhaps on AD's as well.I am taking Remeron and it helped me during the worst times.

Be prepared that your WH isn't truly desiring to stop the A or work on your marriage.It could be just lip service since you now have confronted him.When I confronted my WH,he told me he would end the A and he said good bye to the homewrecker.But 2 weeks later I found that they were still in contact and 2 weeks after that WH asked for a separation.

I'm not saying this to make you feel bad but your WH changed the password on his yahoo account(easily a red flag for the bs)and not any way in which to make you feel safe and secure.Please don't try to numb your pain with alcohol or other substances.As hard as it is,FEEL the pain.Go through it.To suppress it will only guarantee future problems with undealt emotions.But these emotions are very stressful and for that you do need help(AD's and IC/MC).

Also,please remember that you should not make any major decisions about your marriage for 6 months or more.You are not able to do that right now since your emotions are over riding any ability for rational decision making processes.

I know you may want to pack up and run for the hills.God knows it took every ounce of strength I had for many days to not walk down to my lawyers office and file.Two days after I had made the decision in my mind that I wanted a D and I was clear in my mind,WH came home to say how sorry he was and that he wanted to reconcile and to give him that chance.Talk about confusing.I had to talk to my counselor a few times to even consider reconciling. But he knows that it's all or none right now.If I find one shred of evidence that he is contact,then that is it.That I know for sure.We have been through too much for him to say "oops I slipped" or whatever lame excuse he could use.It won't fly with me.

Anyway,hang in there.You are in for the ride of your life now.You may have thought that you were already but the tables have turned.The A is outed and now you have a whole new set of issues to deal with and you need all your strength.Get as much support around you as you can.

Keep us posted.

O

Call me please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so worried about you.

Sue,

I'm damned proud of you.

And you know where to reach me.

J

There is the perception....that when you do the right thing...that things get better. The reality is that they do...however, generally, they first get worse. Dealing with the truth...is at first painful, the rewards are delayed. Have you ever heard of "delaying gratification" or that you have to have a "break down before you have a breakthrough"....well Sue...that's where you are. You've been through childbirth I know....so you know that it sometimes takes pain to achieve glory. You say you want a divorce...I'm sure you feel terrible...but I also know that nothing in your life will improve without walking through a little bit fire.

I'm okay.

I would not be surprised one bit if he was not trying to find a way to maintain both still.

Right now, I'm trying to sort through everthing going through my mind and ask/talk about the important stuff, and ignore the irrelevant stuff. (is any of it irrelevant?).

There is so much I want to say, ask, some of it, might, would be LB's, okay, most of it would be LB's at this point.

I have some antiD's. my Dr. gave them to me about 6 months ago. Approx a 2-3 months supply. What a doc to give me that much in samples.

Dear Sue:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I would not be surprised one bit if he was not trying to find a way to maintain both still <hr /></blockquote>In your words I hear doubt...so much doubt that he loves you/ever loved you. Remember the time a few weeks ago, when you talked with him about the registry at Target. You wrote back then, that he was calling you all the time, drawing closer to you.

Sue...as a BS we underestimate how much the WS values us. It took me all this time since d-day, almost two years, to BELIEVE my H when he says he loves me. I did not think that he valued me one bit. I felt worthless and unloved because of his A. It took all this time to change that feeling.

From what you have written here I sense that your H loves you. After you confronted him, he said that he wants to try. Trying is not easy. Many times I wanted to shake my H and shout at him: "You are not trying hard enough. You can do better than THIS!!!" But always look at the overall picture- remembering that you will have a skewed view, because your perceptions are not objective.

Sue, dear Sue, don't sell yourself cheap. You are an amazing woman and your H knows that.

You have read the Harley texts about for and withdrawal, right? Now apply what you know. Calm down, have that coke and rum (remember two years ago, when you told me it was o.k. to have one or two or three glasses of red wine?)

Take care, all the best to you.
Hugs

Sue,
Like the others, I am so very, very proud of you. I had gotten to the point that I thought you were going to sacrifice yourself for the sake of an illusion~ but you stood up and finally put yourself first.

Of course, now comes the really hard part- choosing the path to follow.

Assert yourself. I'm still learning this and its a year later from my Dday. So Im lending my support knowing how difficult it is.

Watch what he does. Its the greatest indicator for you what path you should follow. Are his actions supporting the words coming out of his mouth? Is he making sure you know everything? Answering anything you ask of him? These are also indicators tha you two can make it.

Don't be afraid to allow yourself some time.

Know you're busy.
Know life is hard.

Wondering....................

Praying.

Wishing !!

SS

I'm just doing alot of thinking/questioning

I'm even wondering if OW knew if he was married. She has never made a reference to him promising to leave me. Does she think we are divorced and living in the same house for the kids? I really wonder what she knows.

Right now, I am thinking about a e-mail I found that he hid in a folder in his e-mail account. Once I'm done thinking this over, I will post about it.

I'm still here and doing fine.

I tired, I am not sleeping well at night. I wake often, and don't know what or why I woke.

When this happens, I know it means I have to make a decision, and I am wrestling with this decision.

Sometimes, I think I married the biggest jerk in the world, and think, he does not deserve all he has. Other times, I ask, why do I love this man, who has helped to create a marriage that was nothing but a lie.

Hi,

My name is Linda and I have just joined this forum, although I have been using Dr. Harleys instructin for about 18 months. I have read your posts. I have been where you have been. The numbness, the denial, the accepting the cruelty, not knowing for 18 years what was going on and then living in h*ll for the next 18 months. Now things are changing.

I too had the situation of him saying he would give up the OW and then didn't. Told me that I was old and ugly and what women he liked sexually when I was suicidal. Also told me he would be relieved if I was dead. Then said he wasn't trying to hurt me or drive me to suicide by this behaviour. Always the "I just thought you deserved the truth about what I like and think of you" His use of "telling me the truth" nearly killed me.

I went to therapy alone, went with him, suffered the pain of him saying the right thing but doing nothing different. It wasn't until I permanently put plan B into operation, while living in the same house and sleeping in the same bed that he started to come around. Still it took months and then a few weeks ago I just told him I was over him - that did it.

My story, or a concise version of it is on the thread ... Haven't seen anything on my situation... maybe a read of it will help you.

I cleaned her out of the address book/voice dial on his phone, just waited for my chance. Never mentioned it to him. Told him that married people do not have secrets. Refused to accept anything less than proper behaviour. I also started living as if he could go get a divorce anytime he wanted and I got "busy" or at least pretended not to have time for him.

I let him know I was not available unless he behaved properly. I told everyone whom saw that I was upset, or that something was wrong, the truth. I did it quietly and sadly, no dramatics. I stopped protecting his reputation, his lies and OW. I told him I would do this if he couldn't be honest and work with me as he promised. As I discovered his lies, I just answered people's questions truthfully instead of avoiding the questions.

It made him sit up and think, he is now doing therapy properly, he still acts mean at times, but I tell him and do not let him turn it into his "victim" story. So things are moving now in the right direction and I am beginning to have better self esteem. Don't feel so ugly and used and stupid. I have grown so much from soing the "right behaviour" all this time. It was not in vain. I garnered help on how to behave from this site and many others. God carried me through it. Lots of prayer, especially for Grace when he hurt me.

I encourage you to put plan B into operation right in the same house. Also take some money out of the bank account and put it in your account each time you see he has spent some on her. Maybe the same amount as he uses for his luncheons and trips. Tell him if he asks, it is your entertainment/ new wardrobe, new perfume money, after all fair's fair. Next time he signs you up for something, whatever it is, immediately plan something else for that time, take away his control of you, even for good causes, call and cancel. Just tell him you are doing something else, whatever you decide to do instead, and don't argue, look act and talk puzzled that he would think of signing you up without asking you. Find something to do that is not with him, gym or movies or a new hobby.

Sing as you get ready to go out. If you can, get ready in front of him, put on make up and then admire yourself in the mirror. Nod as if you are pleased with your appearance and then leave. Be short in answers. Smile to yourself and then if he comments, tell him you are thinking of the fun you had there.

Also I would turn up on those evenings he plans without you. Let him explain why his wife is there to the OW and his friends, just be so sweet and puzzled as to why the OW is there. Let his friends who encourage his disgusting cheating feel embarrassed.

Oh yes, put a keylogger on the computer, no more secrets. I had to tell my husband I knew the truth and not let him deny it before he changed. He realised he couldn't have his lifestyle and me. It made him compare what we both were and the OW lost. To have all revealed would destroy him socially at church and his family would die if they saw her. He wanted me for the "good" functions and saved the fun for her. I told him I can be fun if you choose to share it with me, she can never be me and the acceptable loving wife I am. She is an adulterer and an embarrasssment or you would have taken her to church and to your parents and divorced me long ago. Then I ignored his denials, just left the room.

I called and confronted her with her actions. Made sure she couldn't say - I didn't know. I was kind but direct. I also informed anyone who knew her that she was involved with my husband and it was very upsetting, I just couldn't understand why someone like her would do such a thing. No more no less.

Please begin your version of plan B now - it works for building you up, makes you feel so much better and has a good chance of turning him around.

Before I did plan B properly, I used to ask him why didn't he just leave me or tell me he really didn't want me or just divorce me, I would have been dead and buried for months - he would have been free and had all the money, the house and his OW. He could have been the poor greiving husband with his comforting new wife.

Then it dawned on me that he could have done it at any time on the last 18 months and yet didn't - that showed me he didn't really want to do it. He couldn't let go of me! I felt my power for the first time. That was when I told him I was over him, started plan B and changed the course of our marriage.

SP

I admire what you did silver. It's the way I hope I would deal with it if I had to.

Hi Sue!

Ali here. Remember me? The one with the whinny husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Holy cow! Your thread is soooo long! I've checked back to see how some of you are doing and I noticed in your thread that you are considering a divorce. I am not one to give advice because I am feeling that same thing too. Although RR wants to move forward and is basically off his feel sorry for me trip but he still blames the OW for his affair. But anyway, the letting go part is the hardest thing to do. I am assuming that he is still with his OW? Sue you are a great, wonderful, compassionate person. You deserve so much more than that. You should not be the cake and eat it too in his life. I am not sure how yourself esteem is holding. I see some days you are OK and others not so good.
I have learned so much about myself in the last year. I know what I want and I know what I deserve. I think you do to bbut afraid to take that step. YOU deserve a second chance. You deserve to be treated better by someone that can love you and only you. Not sure if you did this because your thread is soooooo loooong it would have take me weeks to find it. But have you written the pro's in your marriage? What are you gaining from it, etc.?? I know right now I am soooo angry because that year mark is coming up and I don't even want to look at RR because all of the pain that I have to deal with. Still feels like yesterday. I made a list and I am going to show it to my therapist. I am afraid to show it because I know what she will say. Sometimes being with someone because they are so familiar is not the reason why to stay with them. I know I seek comfort with that in RR. The fact that he supports me (yes he still has his job and loves it but a little too much), puts a roof over my head, allows me to stay home and raise my children. I am have been battling that very same D. question too. I sometimes feel it is better to be miserable than alone. I just can't stand to see you on the side lines. It has been yo long for you to go on like this. I am so callused because of this and to think about what you are going through is unimaginable!
Sue, you have to do what is best for you. Think of your children and the imprinting that children learn. Even older kids learn our behavior. I hope you respond to my post. I want to read your thoughts personally.

Sincerely,
Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Antidepressants are great aren't they? God only knows what I'd be like without them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Ali-yes I remember you and RR.

Silver - thanks for everything you said.

Right now - I don't know what I want. Sometimes I think about ending this madness and moving forward alone with the kids and I am calm about it. Other times, It is upsetting to me. I'm trying to understand why sometimes I am calm and other times I am not.

I feel very stuck, not knowing which way to go or turn. At this point, I know the decision is mine and mine alone. I just don't know what it is I want.

[ March 10, 2004, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Thank you "findingmywayback"

To Ali and SwH,

What I have to try and get through to you is that when you do the 180º turn around, it doesn't matter if you want to get back together with your husband or not.

A. It makes you feel better and strengthens your spirit; you need this what ever happens.

B. It makes him sit up and take notice, especially if he is the whiney "I am a victim" type.

C. Doing it brings you into a position of inner strength and also as a by-product kind of takes away the power he has to hurt you. Either way, leave or stay it helps!! If only I could take you into myself so you could feel the difference. He is still trying to be a victim, but can't drag me into it anymore.

I have suffered with the victim for nearly 20 years now and severely for the last 18 months. He even told me that if I was never born I couldn’t have been here to somehow influence him to do all the things he did that I didn’t know about. It was so ludicrous, that after I recovered from the hurt, I just laughed at his foolishness.

His problem is related to his parenting when he was small, specifically his mother, he seemed to have a perfect childhood. I suggest that you get and read "emotional incest" it is a great book and Amazon has it. It will let you see how he is and where it comes from, then that lifts the "shawl of blame" they drape around your shoulders that sticks even when you know it isn't really you doing it.

I have come to and got past the day when I knew I had to call the OW and tell her I had forgiven her. I did so because I felt she could never forgive herself, or come back from it and change unless I was ready to really show her there was a way back. My husband went berserk when he heard I was going to call her to forgive her. My MIL (a so-called devout Christian) forbade me to forgive her, she like my husband blaming the OW. I called and she was shocked but said she regretted what she had done, (she was a friend I had helped a lot) and felt that now with my forgiveness she could move on and change how she was. I asked her to change her marriage and tell her husband the truth; she and her husband like us were in counseling when the affair happened. He like me had no idea it was happening, yet they told each other that they were the victims, and we the unknowing somehow made them do it. I will be calling her back to see if she has told her husband, if she has not I will have to tell him.

You see over the last 18 months I have been on board after board, and exchanged emails with hundreds of betrayed people. Every single one said they wished someone had told them, and I felt the same and was furious at those who not only knew but also encouraged my husband to go ahead. They are all banned from our lives now. All of them.

When I did my version of 180º/plan B I became strong enough to (in a quiet but immovable way) exclude these people from our life. God stepped in and when United Airlines went down, every single one of those evil gossiping marriage destroyers was laid off. Every single one. The only one left was his boss in another state and he got moved sideways so he is not my husband's superior any more. I told his wife how he had encouraged my husband to badmouth me and have an affair behind my back while we were in counselling. So she now knows whom she is married to, they are Christians and had an agreement that they do not gossip and do not support anything that hurts a marriage, she was surprised to say the least.

You have to just a little at a time start the 180º/plan B, both of you, it is the only way to get strong and you need to be that to stay or leave, so you do not need to make a decision on that to do it. Just the desire to feel better and grow back that inner strength you used to have. That feeling of safety.

SP

Silver,

Just curious, What does your H. for a living???
You can e-mail to me if you don't want to post it. 'Let me know first and I will give you my e-address
Ali

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ali88:
 Silver,

Just curious, What does your H. for a living???
You can e-mail to me if you don't want to post it. 'Let me know first and I will give you my e-address
Ali <hr /></blockquote>I prefer to email

Silver

Hi Silver!

Here it is! rraz88@aol.com. I look forward to your e-mail!

Ali <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear SwH,

I can't say I am dying to know how you are, becasue I think you are still hanging on and that you can still function.

I can say I worry about you - and I wonder if the H is still on the end of the SwH.

I know you are thinking, and I know you are so busy I don't understand where you get time to think - but remember people care about you.

There is probably not much more I can say that will help, just remember - OK?

SS

There is not much to update on.

WS is being loving, attentive, etc. Doing almost all the right things.

He is not doing/saying what is most important to me.

I have plenty of down time to think.

My job is a no brainer, I can think about my M and do my job (I'm talking about the full time job).

Where things are at right now, is the future of my M lies with, what do I want. I don't know.

Plan B will never be an option for me. I know that if he left, even if it was because I asked him to, I would never take him back. I took him back once before, I know myself well enough to know that twice, would end it.

Fool me once, shame on you
Fool me twice, shame on me.

That would be the final straw that broke the camels back (so to speak). That is why I resist all suggestions of Plan B. I know Plan B, would not be a plan B, but Divorce. It comes from knowing yourself. So, the best plan for me, is to take my time deciding if I want this marriage or not.

For those of you who think I am just stalling, I am not. This is a major decision, one that should not be made lightly. Before this point, I did not really face this aspect of it. I was only surviving.

Plan B, may have been what you needed, it is not waht I need. I know that Plan B would destroy my marriage. Not on the part of WH, but, I would be the one going to the lawywer, filing for divorce. I would do it the very same day or next day. No waiting period.

I am not in denial of my feelings, of the state of my marriage. I know what is going on.

The scarry thing, I am way too calm. Every relationship I have been in, that I ended, I felt this calm before I told him it was over. I also had no regrets when I made the decision. I may take my time to get there, but when I get there, I have no regrets. I know i made the right decision for me.

I know myself very well. That is where most people underestimate me.

Oh, SS - I'm doing fine, better than fine really.

I am doing more than functioning.

My son's hockey team one the consolation championship in their last and final tournament.

Tonight we are having an end of the season party/dinner for the kids and family. We decided as a team, we wanted this last farwell.

Some of the kids are moving to the next level, some are staying at this level. Who knows what team they will be on next year.

Hi Sue,

No way do I think you are stalling. This is a major decision for you. It is not like picking out a color of paint for your bedroom. This needs thinking from all aspects and every aspect to consider.
I am right there with you to. I brought it up in our MC session a week ago and she was shocked. He was sort of surprised. I have to take everything into consideration before I make a major decision before I twist my children's life around.
And I know the survival mode! Your body some how goes on leaving the brain behind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
That was my case all last year. When you and every one as it seems on this message board was trying to help my H. and I.
Tell me though, that calm is kind of creepy isn't it? It is like you have come to terms with it your decision. And everything seems to piece together and work out. Been there too!

I really think you are a strong women. I am not sure if I would be able to handle and on going A. and my H. keeping it in the open.

Take your time, I support you.

Ali
How's the weather up there????

Dear Sue:

I know the feeling of calm you spoke about in your post. I think you reach that frame of mind when YOU are closer to knowing what YOU want and you don't depend on the other person anymore to make decisions for you.

Sue, last Monday I read my first thread again...when I came to MB in July 2002. You were there, writing to me again and again. Reading the posts you and I wrote I can see a lot of change in your and my personality...in the way we write, the way we "talk".

You have fought so hard, Sue, to get your degree, to keep your household running. You have been strong for so long. I know how long these last two years were, because they were the longest and hardest I have ever lived through myself.

You are the only one who knows what is best for you. Period! Noone else can decide for you.

Hold your head up high, dear Sue, all the best for the coming weeks and months. When I was in trouble, you came to my help. Now I would like to return some of that help to you.

Hugs

Weather - is nice. Warm, snow melting, car window open (okay, Ilike the window open when it rains, I've caught many of colds/sore throats because I do not use commone sense when it comes to open car windows and the wind going through my hair).

I have mostly figured out, I am at a place where, what he does is of little concern to me. It matters, but, I don't know if anything he could do would effect me or not. I'm not sure what I want.

I keep thinking, move forward, start over, leave him behind, once a cheat, always a cheat. You will never be able to trust him again. I've made other discoveries, that at this point, I have very little to no respect for him. I dont' know if I could ever get that back. I treat him better than he deserves. I treat him with respect he does not deserve. So, I don't let my lack of respect for him effect my actions.

And then, I think of the kids, and I think, wonder, can this marriage be saved? Can he change? Can he/will he do what is necessary to change so I want to save this marriage?

It comes back to the question "Do I want to work on this marriage" I honestly do not know. So, in the mean time, I keep living life day to day. Watching/wondering/questioning/observing.

His behvior towards me, has been very good since before Christmas. Other than D-day when I confronted, and there was a couple of very strained days, followed by less strained days for a week. Now, I have moments. He notices them. He always asks if I am okay.

It has in some ways, been better. He is home more, wants to spend more time together. Tells me more where he is and going (the question is, if I am not with, how do I know over the cell phone, he is where he says he is, unless I talk to one of the people where he is at.). So, is there reason for me to doubt, or is it distrust in him making me question everything? I did not follow instinct the first time around, and I'm not really sure what to think right now. Not sure if it is the distrust clouding things or if it is that gut feeling.

For instance today, he said he was going to so and so house. I tried to call him on his cell phone, did not reach him. I called there and he was there. I instantly was being distrustful. Now he was where he said he was. So, this time, he was telling me the truth. Will he be the next time?

He has not done what I wanted to prove there is NC. I should push the issue, and some may disagree with me on this, but until I decide what I want/don't want from this marriage, I am not going to push it. If I decide I want a divorce, she can have him and deserves him. He will do the same to her.

If I decide I want this marriage to work, then I will insist on proof. if he says he sent it, then I will insist on another one that I get to see, as proof. He can tell her, that he already sent it, but I didn't see it, and I insisted on seeing it, so he is resending it to make me happy.

I'm questioning just how much do I really matter to him?

I just wonder how can you trust him? Don't feel guilty because you don't trust him. That just happened to me the other night. I doubted him and there he was where he said he was.

I also wonder, if he is going to put a stop to this....???? Can the three of you sit down and talk? I knot that may sound way off base. But considering the openess he has and she obviously knows about you?????

Ali

Sue,

I understand that the reason you don't have a real recovery plan in place is because you aren't sure you want a recovery. That's understandable. But I need to state the obvious: If no recovery plan is in place...you will be assured of no recovery. It will be a self fulfilling prophecy. How can you know if you want your marriage to work if the conditions that facillitated the affair don't change and you never have a chance to rebuild trust? You can't.

Hi Sue
Thought I would respond to your post just so everyone else knows I'm still alive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There is not much I can say to you we have talked and I understand you.I think the thing that hits closes to home for me is the lack of respect,I look at my H and even after 15m of knowing what he did I still do not respect him as a man.He became the type of person I hated.I have always hated men that cheat and now I am married to one.The trust is any where but back,I do not trust at all still but how can I when there has been little change in him since dday.

I think one of the biggest things for you will be seeing a true lasting change in your H.I know my H changed right after dday but it did not last he is right back to the old self.If your H does change and the change stays I know that you will then be able to learn how to trust him and eventually respect him again.I think its all up to him at this point.

Take care my friend,you are so very dear to me.

Maybe I did not make myself clear. I know we the three of us could not discuss this. He was honest about the affair, because I told him not to lie. Before he tried to lie, he should look at what I had. He glanced at it, but saw e-mails from her to him. So, he admitted to it. Said he would end it.

Did the ususal it was all my fault, etc.

I'm not sure how much she knows about me. She never made a reference to me, WH, sent her picture of our boys in hockey uniform. (Can't make them out through the helmet, I'm upset, but not as upset as I would have been if they had their helmets off). He never sent her a picture of our daughter. Does she know we have one? How was he going to explain a daughter that he has had for 5 years?

[ March 21, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Ahhh, Sue! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I just get that awful pit in my stomache when I read your post!

I wish there was something I could do or say to make it right. I know the feeling that you are going through. Although my. H. A. was only five months.

I will say lots of prayers for you. I hope it will get better for you. How about if I come up there and slam him with a hockey stick? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali

Sue,
If you don't know what you want - pretend you want it, and go along with that until you do know. Isn't that the only thing that makes sense right now?

And - and it scares me when you are quiet for so long - I had twin two year olds once - and quiet can be lots of trouble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

Sorry SS- don't mean to scare you.

Not much to update. Things are fine in general. If you did not know my situation and saw us together, you would think we had a good sound marriage.

Yesterday was my birthday. At first I was bummed because I thought WH did not remember, I changed my hours and worked during the day so I could have the evening home. WH came home and had some roses for me, and said get dressed, we are going out for dinner for your birthday. I was very impressed that he remembered and bought me flowers.

I've been very preoccupied with my own thoughts. Most of them center around thinking that my marriage is doomed, once a cheat always a cheat, how can I ever trust him again, if ever. Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.

I do pretend all is okay. I figure until I decide what I want, no point in causing problems or giving him reason to rethink his decision to try and make it work.

I know, what he did for my birthday should be an indication that I must matter to him.

Sue
I am so happy he remembered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Happy belated birthday to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Can that saying be true? "Fake it until ya make it." Now, lets get our mind out of the gutter!
How can you fake it when you are so miserable?

I am glad that he brought you flowers and told you to get ready. That must of felt really good!
Did you have a nice time?

Ali

Not much to update. Things are fine in general. If you did not know my situation and saw us together, you would think we had a good sound marriage.

One of the things we were afraid of was that you would loose so much love for him that you would want to walk away - after school was over and you got a better job.

Yesterday was my birthday. At first I was bummed because I thought WH did not remember, I changed my hours and worked during the day so I could have the evening home. WH came home and had some roses for me, and said get dressed, we are going out for dinner for your birthday. I was very impressed that he remembered and bought me flowers.

One of your complaints was that he did not remember things like this. And by the way, happy birthday - How many years? I think I know, but probalby I ought to keep quiet about things like this. I do know you are younger than I am by about 5 years.

I've been very preoccupied with my own thoughts. Most of them center around thinking that my marriage is doomed, once a cheat always a cheat, how can I ever trust him again, if ever. Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.

We know - why do you think we worry. The bottom line is that you don't know for sure - you still don't know. When you don't know, you pretend it will work, and you act like it will work, and you put your heart into it. That's what I expect from you.

How can you ever trust him again?
You don't know that you can yet. Recovery is finding those things out. He still has to do withdrawl, and only then can he get his head on straight and do it right. You get him through that first, and then you worry about trust. Now, if you KNOW you want to leave, you can leave, but if you don't know - well, it's not over until you know you want out.

I do pretend all is okay.

Oh Shoot, No, No, No. Please don't pretend everything is OK. It is NOT OK - he is the one that has to prove things are OK, and you need to hold him to that.

Just pretend you want your M to work, not that things are OK. Pretend you want your M to work with all your heart.

It was pretending that "things are OK" that prolonged this mess up to this current date. Hold his feet to the fire - until you knonw.

Does he love me, did he ever love me and many more thoughts along these lines.............................. I know, what he did for my birthday should be an indication that I must matter to him

Once you told us things he did early on that showed he loved you. I think the evidence is strong that he did love you. And, the birthday effort shows he cares for you now. Does he love you? Well, it looks like he wants you - and if the two of you will follow the four rules for a sucessful marriage, he will love you for a long time.

Does he have faults
HECK YES!!!

Has he done things wrong?
HECK YES !!!

Does he need to repent and change?
HECK YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can he do it?
That depends, and lots of it depends on how much you want to stay.

Remember, you can LEAVE ANY TIME YOU WANT.
You can - you really can.

However - YOUNG LADY - as long as you stay, I want to see major effort, and I want to see it done right.

I hope you had a happy birthday, and I hope next years is lots happier.

SS

I'm one of the friends you didn't even know you had Sue.

I lurk here daily. And I look everyday for updates from you. I've noticed how little you post anymore. Its like after you confronted him (sort of) you stopped coming here.

Now you need this more than ever. Don't shut yourself away from your support group.

And I'd really like to be of help to you. I live in the same area as you....(I'm a hockey mom too).
I'd love to meet you in person, if you need someone to really TALK to.

((HUGS))

Hi Lexxy and everyone,

I don't have much to post right now. WH is behaving like the model hubby. No e-mails that I know of between them in a while. (Unless they/he created a new e-mail address, if so, I will find it out, just have not had time to do so)

He is home more than usual, but he does have some unexplained times away. Which he now calls me and tells me where he is. (The question here, is, is he being truthful?)

Wedding was supposed to be last Saturday. I think he missed it. We were up north of the TC about 40 miles. He was occupied all day and I know a couple of the people that he was with, if he would have even attempted to call her and they overheard, 1- I would have been told and he knows it 2- She (my friend) would have told him off in front of everyone). She is not afraid to speak her mind. One of the things I love about her. He had very little alone time that day.

Lexxxy - e-mail me at momofthree55118@yahoo.com

I'd love to meet you. I think it would be great.

I know I don't update as often as before. Sorry if it worries you all. As I said before, not much to update.

Today, I'm rather calm and peaceful. Not too concerned about my marriage. I don't know if that is because I don't care or if it is because I know that no matter what I will be okay, or if I feel that all will work out. I just know that today, I am calm about it.

I also check on you often
I also don't post much now that things
have calmed down and we seem to be alot
better now.

Also Happy birthday mine was a couple
of days before you.

I was wondering also if your H is simliar
to mine.
My H has been great last couple of mts

And he will have really good days
And be just wonderful
Can't help but wonder what is going on with
him sometimes.Even asked if he was on drugs

I hope you the best and know you will make it
tru we all will.
Just takes time (((TIME)))
And that's the hard part

Hope you are calm today too !

All the best - all the time.

SS

Used - Happy Birthday to you too. Isn't March a wonderful month for Birthdays. Not too cold, not too hot.

March is a wonderful month for b-days
I have two wonderful grandsons born in this month and one on your b-day Sue <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But me.............I think October babies are the best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ginger - October is a good month too, my oldest is an October baby.

Well I bet he must be just about the sweetest thing on earth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

We had two granddaughters born in March - about two weeks ago in fact. I have a son who has a March b-day, and my brother also (but he never was very sweet.)

Our family has b-days in every month but Oct, and Jan. Maybe I should have worked on the Valentine cards a little more......or was it the flowers? Wrong kind of candy.............no, wait..........maybe it was no hot tub in the motel room. Ah sucks, I should probably just not worry about it.

Good to hear from both your girls, hope today is good.

SS

SS
Now you are really missing out on something if you dont have an October baby in your life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Look how lucky my family is they
have ME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL

Congrats on the new little ones.

And today.......its just so so for me.What about you Sue??

SS - congrats

Today was good up until I went home.

I'm tired of walking on eggshells. I cannot have a bad day and vent. Normal people vent. I have to be sweet and nice and lovable 24/7. If I'm not, I am a negative you know what.

He is not worth it. Then again, before I married him, I was sweet and lovable

Why do you have be nice, sweet or lovable? Why not just be honest instead of "venting" and express your feelings without negativity. Your only choices are NOT niceness or negativity, there IS another choice.

It does not matter what tone I use. If I express displeasure in anything, I am negative and complaining, which is why he justifies the A.

Sometimes I think they deserve each other. She can find out just how wonderful he is. She can work 2-3 jobs supporting him during the layoffs.

Wow Sue, that's an eye opener. She lives at home, right? She has no idea what it's really like being with your H.

She used to. She either rents or bought a townhome. I think she bought it. I think she bought it about a year ago. That is a guess based upon when I did a search on the white pages and found a listing for her.

WH, as far as around the house, he has been better. He helps more. But, it is frustrating for me, that I cannot express myself honestly without him accusing me of being negative.

Heya, Sue! I'm glad you're still chugging along. I think of you often and hope you're well.

Still Seeking, the thought of you with two new babies to play with is a truly marvelous one. Congratulations!

Yesterday I was going good. Today, not so good. Mostly, I'm doing too much thinking/questioning

Does he love me?

Did he ever love me?

Is OW more important to him than I am?
Does her feelings matter more to him than mine do?

After I confronted him, he said he did not want a divorce. So, if he does not want a divorce, why was he engaged to marry her? You cannot get married if you are already married.

He said he married me because he did not want someone else raising his kids. Is that the only reason why he married me?

He said he does not want to be a weekend father?
Is that why he married me?

He said we could try to make it work, because he does not want his kids coming from a broken home. He said he remebers what it was like and does not want that for his kids.
Is that why he married me?

I love my children so much. Can I stay in a marriage where he does not love me and is only in it because of the kids? I dont' know. It hurts too much to think that he does not love me.

Twelve years ago, he told me he loved me, and told me often. Now, I hardly hear it, and he is usually drunk when he says it. (He hardly gets drunk)

As I think back, the very first time he proposed, I came home from work, on the table was a vase with Roses and a card that said "I Love You, Marry Me" WH. We were living together then, he was in school during the daytime, came home, ate dinner then went to work. He was usually gone by the time I got home from work.

That was the happiest day of my life back then. I felt like I was on cloud nine. A couple of weeks later, he got cold feet. Was worried he was proposing because I was pregnant. Shortly after that, he came home and said he picked out an engagement ring for me. He put in on layaway. He said when he gave it to me, he wanted to know it was paid for. He showed me the layaway receipt. It was a nice solitaire engagement ring. We decided to get married after he graduated school. Six months after S#1 was born, I'm pregnant with S#2. We were still planning on getting married, he was to graduate that spring. We decided that we would marry after the second one was born, and when his brother could be his best man. Six months after s#2 is born, he meets OW. We are fighting about it. I'm tired because of working and trying to take care of two babies with little help from him. WH's brother comes home on leave, and we don't get married. WH did not even want to discuss it. One month later he moves out. Six months later, I get my own apartment. He starts to get worried that I am moving on with my life, which I was. Making comments about someone else raising his kids. (I recall telling him, "that is how it usually works when two people split up and their is children involved.) He starts coming over more, taking me out. His mom is happy that we are seeing each other again. About a year later, I was pregnant again, miscarried this time.) WH was in an accident, on disability, so my CS was decreased. I could no longer afford my apartment, so I moved back to WH's mom's duplex. Put most of my stuff into storage. About a year after that, he wants to get married the next month. By this time, I was thinking about ending the relationship. I saw it going nowhwere. No declarations of love for me, so I figured there was no future for us together. I never told him what I was thinking. So, when he suggested marriage, I knew it was not because he thought he was losing me, so I figured he wanted to get married and loved me. It never dawned on me that he never said "I love you" or anything like that to express his feeling for me.

Where was the OW during this time? I thought it was over. I even wondered, maybe he was telling me the truth the whole time and that there never was anything between them.

We married, at this point, I did not have any suspicions that anything was going on. He was home all the time. We found a house and moved in about 5 months later. It was shortly after that, I noticed that he was coming home from downtown. I thought, why is he downtown. He usually bought "bath and body works". I started wondering did she work there? I knew she worked retail. I told myself, "don't react when you have no proof", except, there was a mall near where he was working and they have a "bath and body works" He did not need to go downtown to buy it. (I'm pregnant with D).

After D was born, about 6-7 months later, he says the union announced there was OT and a higher payscale in Detroit. He wanted to go work it for about 3 months. I was not happy about it, but he wanted to do it. So, I agreed. I partly agreed because I figured if I was right in my suspicions, hopefully this would put an end to it. And if I was wrong, no harm done because I never accused him wrongly.

Three months go by, and he is not making plans to come home. He said he would be able to send enough money home so we could make some of the improvments the house needed. He was not sending enough home, said he did not have it. I take a second job. Almost had the phone shut off, heat shut off. Nine months later he comes home.

He gets a cell phone, starts playing computer games alot. I had to practically beg him to let me use the computer for school. I bought the computer because of school.

He is hiding the cell phone bill. I am more suspicios now than ever. Not sure what to do. Did not sneak the bill and look at it. I should have.

About a year later is when I finally had the nerve to take the bill out of the mail and open it. I did not recognize most of the numbers. He called her maybe 4 times a month. I was not alarmed by this.

Started taking the bills at random. Saw the calls increased. Got my own cell phone, same company so I could figure out how his phone worked and how to access the bills online.

Started getting more nosey into stuff. Bought spyware. At first hardly any e-mails, then they increased, most of the e-mails were joke stuff. It was not until the last year or more when the e-mails started showing a relationship. By this time I had also installed Spyware on the computer, so I knew for sure.

Sometime in the last year, my friend and former neighbor told me that her family frequently saw him at a pay phone. This occured before he went to Detroit. I recall a couple of times, she asked if our phone was working, and if not, we can come and use there if we need to.

So, as I peice it together, I see this has been going my whole marriage.

So, is there a marriage here? Is it marriage in name only?

Has my marriage been a six year lie?

[ April 06, 2004, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Sue
Maybe today is the day for thinking.
I believe when we are in a situation like this we all begin to question what is real and what is not.
I can look over my life also and put a lot of questions in different places but realize it will not make a difference today.

Has my H cheated before?? I always suspected but never had proof.Does it matter today??

I think that you, like me have come to a cross road and are feeling there are things we want out of life and out of our marriage and from our H's but may have to face the fact they may never be able to fullfill those needs.

I understand why you question but I do not think he would have married only for the kids.I do not understand why people cheat,I do not understand why they do not take the time to think of the end result before they jump in but I do understand that most men do not marry just to marry.

You can not change who he is,I can not change who my H is they have to do this themselves.
But you and I my friend can change who we are.We can stand strong and be the best Sue and Ginger that we can be.Sometimes they do not see what is right under thier nose.

Sue no matter what, know that you are much more than she will ever be,you are a wonderful,smart,funny,sweet,beautiful woman and the only one that will loose in all of this is your H.I can only pray he wakes up before it is to late.

Hi Sue,

All that you have related is in the past. It is true, but we can't judge what will happen by those things. You made a decision to stay - you wanted to finish school and get a better job, and that makes perfect sense. Your LB has been in the negative for quite some time. Until it is up, it will be hard for you to have really positive feelings about your marriage.

I have seen you say words to the effect that he:

1. Is paying more attention to you.
2. Stays home more
3. Says he does not want a D.
4. Does more as far as gifts, and meeting your needs.

I know he still has problems. My W's husband still has problems too - in fact, I believe it will take him (my W's husband) many years to overcome his years of bad habbits. Sure he may do better for a time, but years of LBing habbits are not changed overnight, so I am sure it will take some time.

Your H just got the word - and is just now beginning recovery. You have been working on it so long you are sick of it.

Since there is no way to change your H over night into the perfect man, you may have to just go slow and encourage him.

If you have not done so, I encourage you to call Penny and have her help you set up the rules whereby you may recover your M. If you have to, both of you go see her or ask her to come see you. It will be well worth the money.

Please don't live in limbo - you deserve better. Both of you need to be working on the same set of rules - and if you don't get them in place, you really don't have recovery - you just have more waiting and wondering.

I think Star was right about being able to tell him what you think. You can do it with care and respect, but recovery needs open dialoge.

That's why I suggest you call Penny - to set up the rules and help HIM understand them and agree and accept them. YOU know, but HE does not - and you struggle with how to change years of doing things in ways that are comfortable for your H. Sometimes we need to get out of our comfort zone to make things better - and it's time for HIM to do that.

I have seen you write posts where you wonder about him, and I have seen you write posts where you recalled how he must have loved you because of the good, kind, loving things he did.

I don't think your marriage was a lie, but I do think it needs work (as does mine, and everyone else's that I know.) Now is the time to proceed, and it won't happen if he stays in the same rut he has been in.

CHANGE !

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
SS

[ April 07, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

I predict by your 1000'th post, you will have decided you have had enough and finally divorce him!

Sue,

You are asking question's that you have already asked yourself, over and over again.

I will ask you this, WHAT DO YOU WANT? What do you gain by staying married? Do you love your H?

Sue, I do love my W, I can do no other. I know you love your children, but do something's for yourself.

As my IC told me, move your life forward's, your H will either fallow or he wont, but THAT is his decission, and make it HIS decission. He either prove's his love for you, or he give's it up, his choice, his decission.

Hi Sue,

Just stopped by to say Hi. Things are OK on this end, wondering how they are on yours.

I know you will post when you are ready, but wanted you to know we are still thinking about you.

Hope the kids are happy - hope their mom is too.

SS

Not much new going on.

Kids are now playing baseball.

D's dance recital is coming up in a couple of months. I have to get her costume ready. Not much to do to it this year. Sew snaps on the shoes for the bows. Last year, I had to sew on the skirt. It could be worse. I recall helping my sister with my neices costumes. I would spend about an hour sewing the skirt on, they had sew much frill. And my sister would have my neice in about 3 classes, which meant three costumes.

D wants t-ball, we might put her in it.

Still job hunting for a full time job. Not much out there if you have less than 1 - 5 years experience. I did find one I called on. They called me back. It was going to an internal applicant. Oh well. Keep trying, something will open up.

Gotta get the kids up for school.

Tonight I have a CE class

H and I are doing okay. I'm sure he thinks we are doing better than I think we are.

H will not do any kind of counseling.

Hi Sue
I miss you <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Boy our H's are alike!!!
Mine thinks all is well on the home front and I think I have just come to a big fork in the road and not sure which road to take.

I am tired...............

I feel like even tho there are some improvements over the last 15m there has not been enough.He is back to being the same old H of the pre-A days.It is hard for me to live with this.I wanted and expected so much more,a happier more loving relationship but all I have is what I had before and I was not happy and supposedly he was not after all that was why he had the A.So what does this tell you?? It tells me that we are not doing well and I am tired of pretending that we are.

I asked him to expose his A to the kids........I know big step,big risk but I feel without a major change and him having to face what he did and pay the conciquence he will never change.

He wont do it,he keeps coming up with excuses,last night he got drunk tonight and tomorrow he works the late shift and I leave wed.for my vacation.He will avoid this just like everything else.

Sue you want me to pick you up on my way to NY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ April 19, 2004, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]

Hi Sue,
just for your "just in case" file
Article about SOCal ( Riverside is inland, kind of hot and desert, but still only about an hour from an ocean)

House call
Riverside Community Hospital aims to recruit nurses from O.C., Los Angeles by paying closing costs on a new home.

By MAYRAV SAAR
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

Angelica Hernandez is home-grown. She was raised in Anaheim. She earned her nursing degree in Santa Ana. Her first two jobs out of school were in Mission Viejo and Garden Grove.

But Hernandez, 26, is leaving town, lured by an offer on a billboard over the Garden Grove (22) Freeway. "Attention RNs: Dream Job. Dream House," the billboard proclaims. "Closing costs paid. Riverside Community Hospital."

Hernandez may have lived her whole life in Orange County, but she's planning to build a new life in Riverside. With a national nursing shortage showing little sign of abating, hospitals have offered nurses all manner of incentives: free cars, paid tuition for advanced degrees, hefty signing bonuses.

But medical experts and housing officials say Riverside Community Hospital's new recruitment campaign has taken the competition for nurses to a new level. The hospital is targeting RNs in neighboring communities, promising not just a better deal, but a better life.

"We're using one of the attributes of the Inland Empire, which is the affordability of a home," Ann Matich, spokeswoman for Riverside Community Hospital, said of the medical center's $600,000 marketing campaign. "Do you want to bring your family up in a home that provides space and a place for your children to play in? If that's what you want, we can offer that."

The median cost of housing in Riverside in $300,000. The most recent reports show Orange County's median home price has risen to $485,000, according to market tracker DataQuick.

Nurses who move to Riverside can afford not only a home, but also a sizeable one, hospital officials said.

"What we used to consider middle-income professions are no longer really middle income within the cost of living for Orange County," said Scott Darrell, executive director of the Kennedy Commission, which advocates building affordable and low-income housing. "A starting nurse with two kids or a starting police officer with two kids are typically earning 50 (percent) to 80 percent of the median income in Orange County, which is considered low income."

Because nurses earn on average $40,000 to $50,000, this means more nurses are likely to load up their U-Hauls, housing experts predict.

"Having affordable housing near the workplace is critical to hiring new employees," said Ken Domer, spokesman for the Orange County Housing and Community Development Department. "These very good nurses are being lured away by affordable housing."

Some hospital officials dismiss those predictions as short-lived. While sign-on bonuses are still common, medical centers are moving away from the more aggressive tactics they've used to attract new nurses, said David Langness, spokesman for Tenet, which owns or operates nine local hospitals.

"It makes your veteran nurses mad," Langness said. "They say, 'Hey, here's someone fresh out of nursing school getting $5,000 to $10,000. Where's my bonus?'

"I think they're waning now as we speak, and they'll continue to wane. Most hospitals have decided that it's smarter to put money into retention," he said.

But hospitals are aware that the lure of homeownership is an enticing one. St. Joseph Health System, which owns three hospitals in Orange County, and the Orange County Affordable Home Ownership Alliance are designing a program to help keep local nurses and other health-care employees from fleeing the area. The details are not yet worked out, but the program would include education programs to encourage hospital workers to become first-time homebuyers.

"Until Orange County is able to think about its labor force and how to retain its labor force, we're going to be behind," said Maya Dunne, vice president of community outreach for St. Joseph Health System. "It's not just the nurses we need to think about, but it's the broader wage earners that don't have any options."

Hernandez agrees. The newborn nursery nurse, who is planning to marry her high school sweetheart in November, bought a home with a future family in mind.

And she is already house proud, gushing about the two-story, three-bedroom home she is moving into next week in an up-and-coming neighborhood of Riverside.

"There's a big yard. It's beautiful. I can't believe it," Hernandez said. "There is no way I could have afforded a home in Orange County."

Hernandez was paying $2,500 to rent a home in Mission Viejo. Her mortgage payments will be $1,950. Plus, Riverside Community Hospital is picking up the tab for her advanced degree.

"I'm in shock," she said. "I'm saving money, getting a house, getting a degree and working at a great hospital."

"When people think of Riverside, they think there's nothing out there. There's just dirt," she said. "But it's growing so fast. There's a Costco and a 24-hour Fitness. That's all I need. They have a lot of cultural places. I know there is a lot of bike riding out there, too." She hopes that over time, the rest of her family will make regular treks from Rancho Santa Margarita to visit. Or even move.

"My mom is thinking about relocating out here," she said. "She's a nurse, too." Matich and other Riverside Community Hospital officials believe that, as word spreads about their offer, more nurses will be recruited to the 372-bed medical center. To improve care and meet state-mandated nurse-to-patient ratios, the hospital hopes to recruit 120 nurses to its pool of 700. Since the program began in February, the hospital has hired 81.

Hernandez hasn't moved yet, but she began work at Riverside Community a few weeks ago in the newborn nursery. She recovers babies after they are born and takes care of them until they leave the hospital - a job she absolutely loves.

"One patient the other day said, 'You have the best job in the world,' " Hernandez said. "I said, 'I know.' "

FBOW
Wishing you well

Thanks FBOW,

I have to laugh when they talk about a "national" shortage. They have not looked at my area, I will keep this in mind. I have been thinking about applying for my CA license.

A nursing recruiter even told me, that right now, the shortage is not what it was, so they can be picky at the moment.

I will keep it in mind. Right now, there is two I'm going to put in for. They are within the same organization I work weekends for, different facility, so that means I will be given preferential consideration over an outside applicant. If anyone within that facility is applying, that individual will be considered before I will.

I figured it out, If they offered me one of the two positions, I could opt out of benefits (especially on the one with the less hours), get paid a higher rate of pay, and I could easily make 20k more than I make right now. When I did clinicals at that facility I am looking at, a new nurse there, told me what they pay if you opt out of benefits. Since WH has benefits, I won't need mine. (especially since I checked into what it would cost me). I figure, I could work this for 6 mo to 1 year, get my experience and go to work somewhere else that provides cheaper benefits.

I am going to check if I can opt out of specific items or if you have to opt out of all or take all. If I get the other position which is close to full time, then I will want the vacation and sick time. Wish me luck on this.

Marriage wise, seems appear better. I'm not 100% confident that it is better. He is treating me better.

He claims he ended it with her, could not provide proof. Says he lost it, when the computer got a virus. I reminded him that I wanted to be there when he sent it, so there is no proof that it was sent, so I don't know for sure.

Right now, as usual, I have too much going on. Going to concentrate on applying for these two openings, hoping that I get one. If I do, then I will be able to provide for my children without worrying about any contributions from him or how long it will take to get CS from him if things take a nose dive or I decide I will never be able to trust him again and it is not worth it. Right now, I am not worried about it.

Sue,

I don't know where you live, but all over the Internet and the news the "nursing shortage" cry is being heard. Every article I read says it's only going to get worse too. That's crummy for us, but good for you....and I hope you are able to find something soon. Check out this website for opportunities in every part of the country.

http://healthcare.careerbuilder.com...efe644593b3bb3c11ca9d4b0c-137233503-wj-2

What is the status of your husband's affair? Has he ended it? Sent a nc letter? Recommitted to the marriage? Opened his life to you? Please give us an update.

Hi Sue,

I thought some about how you are doing.

It seems to me that it must be better for you, or you would have been here telling us about things more often. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

I am still hoping that you helped set up the proper rules for recovery, and that he is living them to your satisfaction.

Still praying that you get the full time job you are looking for.

Ginger, not to hijack, but you never reported on your trip - do you think we would just ignore it?

SS

LOL didn't know anyone really cared!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The trip was wonderful and very needed.It was so nice to see a part of the country I had never seen before.MOMof1 and I hit it off like we had known each other all our lives.She said that our time together was very good for her also.
We were able to talk about our feelings with no fear of them being beaten down,we laughed together,cried together and had a whole lot of fun together.
Niagra Falls was so wonderful and amazing.

I feel so very blessed to have become friends with several women here on the forum.

I truly believe God puts people in our life for a reason at the time we need them most.
This forum has helped me so much over the last year,altho I dont post as much as I use to I still look at MB as the place that saved me from the darkest hour of my life.

As for me and H,things are still rocky somedays I think it is me,somedays I think it is because of him and the lack of change.
I still feel very confused about all of this, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I am still in such disbelief that it ever happened.

I guess this is a situation where only time will tell.
Thanks for asking SS.How is everything in your world these days??

Hi Sue,I miss you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL didn't know anyone really cared!!!

So, you admit you don't know us very well? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The trip was wonderful and very needed.It was so nice to see a part of the country I had never seen before. MOMof1 and I hit it off like we had known each other all our lives. She said that our time together was very good for her also.
We were able to talk about our feelings with no fear of them being beaten down,we laughed together, cried together and had a whole lot of fun together.

I still think you gals ought to have gal friends, and us guys ought to have guy friends - for some things. I am glad you got to talk - I just wish it was your H talking to you most of the time.

Niagra Falls was so wonderful and amazing.

So where are the pictures?

I truly believe God puts people in our life for a reason at the time we need them most.
This forum has helped me so much over the last year,altho I dont post as much as I use to I still look at MB as the place that saved me from the darkest hour of my life.

I see you come and go sometimes, wondered how you were doing. You are much stronger now, but I hate to read you are still uncertain.

As for me and H, things are still rocky somedays I think it is me,somedays I think it is because of him and the lack of change.
I still feel very confused about all of this, I am still in such disbelief that it ever happened.

My W and I continue to learn and grow. I still read more than she does, and initiate converstaions much more. It is good for us to get things out in the open that bothered us for years. It sounds like your H wants to continue to ignore them and pretend they don't exist. I hope you can find a way to work on it with him. Problems don't go away, they just hide in the dark and grow. I worry about Sue for the same reasons - you both need recovery, not bury and go on.

I guess this is a situation where only time will tell.

Is there any continued improvement at all? Or do you just try to cope with the feelings you still have? I don't mean to bring it all up again, but - well you know, it would be best to fully recover.

Thanks for asking SS.

People do care about you - You have value in and of yourself, independant of how your marriage is going. I hope you know that.

How is everything in your world these days??

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Grand daughters are wonderful - lots of fun. Troubles come and go, but never stop for good - you know what I mean. On the whole, I am happy. Might as well be - don't you think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

W loves me, I love W. We face troubles together. Life is good.

SS

[ May 19, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS

Yes in ways I am stronger but I do not feel like we are near full recovery yet.

True both men and women need friends,but it would be great if H would open up and talk to me more.

I worry also about the "bury and go on" recovery and that is really what my H would like.I feel it will be the worst thing we could do.

I worry about Sue also but I also know how strong she is and I trust her judgment.

I am glad that things are going well for you and your W she is lucky to have an H that is willing to talk and deal with problems.

Thanks for caring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi All

Is it better? Maybe, I'm not sure. Some days are good, some days are not. WH, is home more, he is more considerate, but then again, are we in a honeymoon phase at the moment. He is asking me to do more with him. Is he behaving because he knows he has to? Is he trying to lure me into a false sense of security to only resume prior activities when he thinks it is “safe” to do so?

Did he end the Affair? I honestly do not know. He says he did, says he sent an e-mail as I requested. During the time I confronted, his computer was having a lot of problems because of a virus, he claims he deleted it when he cleaned out his e-mail trying to clean up his computer. So, did he send the e-mail he says he did or did he only tell me that he did to pacify me and shut me up?

I know she still e-mails him, he does not respond, if he does, he cleans up his e-mail before I can find any trace of him communicating with her via e-mail.

She used to hardly e-mail him with things to do, and now she is e-mailing him a lot with suggestions of things to do. So, does that mean he is talking to her less and she is getting pushy, trying to keep things going, keep up contact? That tells me that either he did not end it as I asked telling her there is to be no more contact between them, and maybe pulled the “we can still be friends” routine, or he did not end it at all. Or he did end it, and she is not accepting it. It does not matter, because he is not doing what I asked, what he said he would.

How am I dealing with this? What am I going to do about it? I am reevaluting what do I want from this marriage. Even if I was more pushy about this, do I even want to save this marriage? I don’t know, somedays I do, somedays I don’t. Somedays I do, and I think he is not worth it. So, I now spend my time doing what I enjoy. During the down time, I try to decide if there is room for him in my life.

Plan for recovery, there is none. He is a lot like Ginger’s H. Ignore it, and the problem will go away. In a way, the problem will go away, they call that divorce. I think about it a lot, divorce that is. Somedays I want one, somedays I don’t. Somedays the thought of a divorce hurts, and somedays, I see it as freedom and welcome it.

Some of the bad days are because of my own thoughts, questions, distrust, guess I am becoming a regular cynic. Yesterday for example, I was convinced I he could never be faithful and that I should move on. Today, I think I want my marriage to work and would like to plan a future together. Last week, I was making plans to find a new job, save money and boot his butt out of the house. (I did submit the application for two internal postings)

This is what is going on. I don’t post much because not much has changed, and I don’t want the pressure of what everyone thinks I should do. I have to sort this out for myself, and unfortunately for me, I take a long time to do this. But once I do, I never have regrets.

I think about moving to another state sometimes, but my support network is here, my sisters are here. They are the ones who, if I divorce will be helping me care for my kids if I have to work an off shift, during a time when daycare is not available or hard to find. I have to think about this too. I have never had a babysitter (other than my daycare provider) that was non-family. I don’t trust many people with my children. I am probably too overprotective of them. Would WH be willing to move to another state? I’m not sure. I know if I said lets move to San Diego, he’d be packed and car loaded before the realtor would have time to get in his car and drive over to the house to list it.

Hi Sue,

I would like to do a really long post and address your comments line by line. Not to pick you apart, but to support you. Since I don't have time to do that, I will just do a little short one, but I want you to read a lot into it. OK?

First, remember that friends (if they are real friends) will sometimes say things that you don't want to hear. This has nothing to do with the rest of my post - I just wanted you to think about it. We have no right (ever) to expect that you will always take our suggestions. I hope I have not given you that impression. Now, laugh at this - isn't it funny that you stay away from your own thread - Laugh a little, and smile. You can come here any time you want, and say what you want, and take or leave any advice you get.

Now, as for the rest..........
How happy are you?

My thinking was that you must be happy most days. Conversation is one of your more important needs. You have lots of friends here that you enjoyed talking to. I hope you talk to H more, and I hope you talk to friends and family in person. If you are doing that, It seems to me that you are more comfortable with your M, and that you can talk to others now much more easily than while the A was full force. If that is the case, trust your feelings - that should tell you something.

Now, it may be a good thing to spend less time here, but remember you really can come any time you want, and say what's on your mind.

One last thing - I have seen couples recover from an A, and succeed without a plan for recovery. It is always the same reason - one party won't help with it. I know it can still work long term in many cases. It does look like it is easier if both are on the same "plan", but I know it can work anyway.

Thanks for coming back and letting us know how you are. You are pretty important to many of us here. I admit I still worry about you. I'll try to quit if you want me to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Doubts and fears are natural, but you are still there, and so is he. I find that interresting.

SS

Ginger,
Is it gradually getting better - or just on permanant hold? What are your feelings on that?

SS

SS – you have always been respectful and considerate when posting your honest opinion, thoughts, concerns or suggestions. So have others, and then there have been the posts that have all but scolded me for not doing things the way that they thought it should be done as if I am a small child who does not possess the ability to make decisions for myself. I am always open to suggestions, opinons and concerns. I am not open to negativity, bossiness, and control.

Yes, it is funny that I stay away from my own thread, and when I do post, I censor what I say with a fine tooth comb. There have been some responses I have received that I read as saying, “I have to have a plan for recovery, without it, recovery is not possible”, “if he has not complied to the letter with NC, then I have to go to Plan B”, “he has to prove to me that he is not contacting her, if not then I have to go to Plan B”. Yes, I would like to see some if not all of this as reality. However, Plan B, has consequences to my children that I am not ready to have them face. We don’t fight, he is home more and does more as a family. The kids are feeling more secure at home. My oldest has recently said “Mom, you remember when I asked you to divorce dad?, Well, I don’t want you to now”. So, I am suppose to disrupt their world and go to Plan B. At this point I CANNOT DO THAT and WILL NOT DO IT. I hear from friends, and from the forum, that by staying in my marriage as it is, I am harming the kids. How is it harming the kids. They are clueless as to what is going on. I do my best to keep it that way. I know if my oldest thought something was wrong, he would say so. We have always had very good communication. So, I know I am not harming them by trying to make it work without Plan B. It is not written that Plan B is a must, that there is a definite timeline that one has to go to Plan B. The times provided are approximations for most people. However, I am not most people. I am very strong, the ability to keep things in perspective for myself. I know what is most important to me and I make decisions based upon that. My children’s happiness and security is what is most important to me, even above my own.

We are all responsible to make our own happiness. Yes the actions of others can cause us unhappiness. After a time, their actions don’t matter any longer, and it can no longer cause unhappiness.

If Plan B becomes necessary, it will be done on my timeline, not a timeline suggested as a guide, yes, I said guide, not a rule book but a guideline, a suggestion that came about from experience as to what has been observed by watching, documenting the feelings and emotions that the person is feeling. It is not an absolute to be applied to every individual. I know what needs to be done and I am working on it. I don’t need pressure that I should be doing it this way or that way. I need support, understanding and compassion.

There is a difference between offering suggestions and telling someone what they should do.

You commented that I should trust my feelings. – Well, that is what I do, I also recall being jumped all over, and I don’t recall by who, and I don’t really care who, when I said that I need to trust my feelings/instinct on this. If I remember correctly, their response was something to the effect that, trusting my feelings didn’t’ get me very far and that is why my marriage is the way it is. It is this type of comments I don’t like or care for. These types of comments totally dismiss my feelings, and belittle my ability to make decisions for myself. I am fully aware that any decisions I make, good or bad, the results are of my making or influence, and the result may not be what I want.

How happy am I? – I don’t really know. I have good days and bad days. The bad days are generally of my own making. I start thinking, wondering, questioning if staying in the marriage is the right thing to do, if divorcing is the right thing to do. The past memories come back, and I question if the good parts were real or all pretend. I question when he married me did he want to, or is it the truth when he said “I only married you because of the kids”. The only time he is able to tell me he loves me is when he has been drinking, so does that mean that the booze loosened him up to be honest or did the booze distort his feelings for the moment. Booze has a way of doing both. I question if our marriage ever had a real chance? Does it now?

The ups and downs are there, but the intensitiy is not the same as when I first exposed the affair to myself.

So, with all this said, I do welcome suggestions, concerns and opinions, just don’t treat me like a child who needs to be told what to do.

Sorry for the redundancy in parts.

Hi Sue, I'm happy to hear your son said that to you. He must see a change in your H too. I hope he sticks with it for all your sake. To me, it is really best if a family can stay together. I know no one knows what the future holds, but I wish you the best, truly I do. You DESERVE it woman!

SwH,

It is possible to view posts that include “support, understanding, and compassion” but are also challenging and questioning as “negativity, bossiness and control”. When you believe these things, please ask yourself these questions: “What possible motivation would anyone here have to negate or control you life? What is there to be gained by that? Are they the kind of people who relish in gaining at someone else’s expense?” Many of the posts I think you are referring to…and I have no doubt that some of them are mine…are people who have followed your story for over two years….worrying about you, caring for you, wanting more for you and empathizing with the long sadness and uncertainty that has consumed your posts here on MB. There is a disturbing sameness over time that permeates your posts.

It is that sameness that prompts worry because there appears to be so little progress in your situation even after years here. From the beginning there has been a vagueness and secrecy that makes it hard to even know what you want or need. I hate the idea of you becoming complacent or settling for so little. I don’t hate it for me….it doesn’t affect me. I hate it for you. And yes….there is a little voice inside of me that wants to shout “don’t drop anchor here Sue”. Life is full of so much more! You deserve so much more from a marriage and a husband and you can have it.

I can do nothing if you decide that means I’m interested in scolding you or consider you a child incapable of knowing you own mind. *sigh* If only children needed help…none of us would be here. If I had become defensive about posts that challenged my thinking...I would never have recovered my marriage. For all that you profess to know exactly what you need to do….you most often project someone who is depressed, lost, confused and many times directionless. And even though SwH stands for Sue with hope...there is a hopelessness that hangs in the air above your words.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> How happy am I? – I don’t really know.<hr /></blockquote>How can we be expected to know that you don't need more than just compassion when you don't even know what your degree of happiness is? When you are challenged, you retreat. You may say something like:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The only time he is able to tell me he loves me is when he has been drinking <hr /></blockquote>and I find myself incapable anymore of simply telling you "my god that is so sad Sue" and not also wanting to say "try something different".

If that is not what you’re feeling….please, I beg you to express what plans you have for your own life and which direction you want to take. If your only plan is to wait, bide your time, live in sadness and uncertainty…so be it...just say so….I will respect that even if I don’t accept it.

If you don’t even know your degree of happiness, how can anyone else possible know either.

Forgive those of us who look at your long suffering and occasionally push you a bit as well as offering you solace…..it is certainly not my normal style…surely you know that. Support+Guidance, Understanding+Challenge, Compassion+Inspiration….those things exact change more than just sympathy alone, even when the risk is causing some discomfort…because all of us resist change…even good change. Of course you need validation….we all do…and you have received bucket loads from so many. Validation alone, does not exact change…..and your situation cries out for it. You cry out for it.

Please, don’t drop anchor here.

The last thing I want to do is to help create an environment where you don’t feel safe to post or must censor your words. I am so sorry for my contribution to that….and sincerely ask for your forgiveness. I will not post to you again Sue….but I will continue to hope.

[ May 22, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]

Hi Sue <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I am glad to hear your H is doing more w/the family.I wish for you tho that you had the proof that the A had ended.
Remember I am always here for you.

SS

In my eyes our life is exactally like before the A.I tell H this.
He acts just like before the A.
So no things are not improving.I wanted to come out of this with a better stronger M.On the outside we look fine.Inside I feel dead.
My D says you can see the misery on my face.

I really dont know if we are going forward,backward or standing still. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WH and I went to a wedding reception last night for a girl on his coed ball team.

When he introduced me to the bride (no, I did not meet her before last night because the night he plays I am at the boys game. Most of the time he takes the kids to the field, I meet them there and quick get to the boys game.

Anyways, the bride tells me that our daughter, the first night she met her, says to her, "my daddy is married and has three children". I thought it was so funny that she would say that. So did she. She told her, that she knows he is married with three children and you must be ******. YD was so thrilled that she knew her name and they played until I got there. The kids saw me before I could get out of the car, and ran to me, so I did not get a chance to meet the team. I already knew two people because they come over to the house once in a while and we got our dog from them.

Star,

What you and others read as depression is more of thoughtfulness, questioning, evaluating my life, where it is going, what I want, what I should do to change it. It is all part of a growth process, before you can grow you have to do alot of deep internal processing, or at least I do. That is where I am at right now. Change takes time. Maybe I am not very good at communicating, and most seem to read some of my threads as I did not intend it.

Depressed, not even close to it. Yes, before, when I first came here, I was sad, who wouldn't be. Even having bouts of depression. Mostly I am very happy, what brings me sadness is when I think of the hurt my children might experience if I am not careful in my handling of this situation.

I just received a new lead on a new job that I will look into.

I'd say more, but I have to get the kids moving for school.

Star, I don't have a problem with you posting or anyone else for that matter. Just keep in mind, my timeline is not others timelines, and somethings I cannot do at all, such as Plan B, it does not exist for me. He leaves, even at my request, I file for divorce. He left once before, and I let him come back. He leaves again, it is for good, I won't let him come back. I am his second marraige, his first marriage, they split up many times before they divorced, I will not have that in my marriage, he leaves, he leaves for good, and that is my final decision on that subject.

sue,

What you and others read as depression is more of thoughtfulness, questioning, evaluating my life, where it is going, what I want, what I should do to change it. It is all part of a growth process, before you can grow you have to do alot of deep internal processing, or at least I do. That is where I am at right now. Change takes time. Maybe I am not very good at communicating, and most seem to read some of my threads as I did not intend it.

I think this is very possible. Certainly in this quasi-world of two dimensional communication it is easy to misinterpret intent, feelings etc. Please remember that it goes both ways chere. I promise you, that my intent, as well as yours may have been misunderstood. I count myself as one of the people who truly care about what happens to you.

Knowledge comes from exploration and introspection. Wisdom comes from applying knowledge. Wisdom is the a catalyst for change....and I agree that you are doing your best to reach that point in your life where you can apply what you have leaned in your own personal way....and in your own time.

Depressed, not even close to it. Yes, before, when I first came here, I was sad, who wouldn't be. Even having bouts of depression. Mostly I am very happy, what brings me sadness is when I think of the hurt my children might experience if I am not careful in my handling of this situation.

Neither one of us has the benefit of "seeing" or "hearing" each other....so all of the tone, nuances, body language etc. are missing from our converstations. It is very easy under those circumstances to fall short of grasping intent and meaning.

I just received a new lead on a new job that I will look into.

This is great news.

Star, I don't have a problem with you posting or anyone else for that matter. Just keep in mind, my timeline is not others timelines,

Sue, I appreciate that, but I am going to stay away out of respect and caring for you....you posted to me so I didn't want to just ignore it...but I also want you to feel really safe coming here.

I feel better to know that you describe yourself as mostly happy now....especially if I have missed that in your posts. Whether that is because of the nature of this form of communication, or your style of writing, or my own misunderstanding....I just don't know...perhaps all of it.

As far as timelines....there is a point even given variation in style/personalities where certain strategies become counter productive. Plan A is one of those....so that's what I was trying to communicate to you. It creates a poor environment for growth in a marriage when continued beyond it's purpose because it is done without expectations or reciprocity. It becomes lonely. So it can become very burdensome and often depressing after a while as well as create destructive patterns where one spouse does all the giving and the other, the taking.

and somethings I cannot do at all, such as Plan B, it does not exist for me. He leaves, even at my request, I file for divorce. He left once before, and I let him come back. He leaves again, it is for good, I won't let him come back. I am his second marraige, his first marriage, they split up many times before they divorced, I will not have that in my marriage, he leaves, he leaves for good, and that is my final decision on that subject.

Let me just throw something out there....since Plan A is really a progressive strategy...meaning that it is only ONE part of a whole process that should not be done as if it is a complete strategy....then perhaps it is the wrong strategy for you. (And really....you probably aren't in Plan A anyway right? Which would make going to B silly in the first place) Ideally, Plan A will lead to real marriage building...or in some cases, Plan B. What I mean is....since it is meant to be temporary in order to end an affair/neglect/abuse or to smooth the withdrawal process....it becomes enabling when done for long periods of time. Even if your timeline is different chere...and that's fine....even for you will become a lonely process unless it achieves it's goal...of ending the affair and encouraging real marital growth (protection, time, caring, honesty).

Since you don't believe in Plan B...as some folks don't (that is not unique...I've seen many folks who feel that way) you are in a sense, stuck in a Plan A (or something similar) that has no where to go. It was never meant to function in this way or for this length of time....and so it has passed it's usefulness. That does NOT make your only option Plan B...one that you have no intention of using. There are other strategies that are more empowering and perhaps healthier for you than simply staying in what appears to be barely keeping your head above water.

MB is not the only structure out there and it is not best for everyone. There is no one size fits all...I honestly believe that. You may be trying to use a process that is not well suited to your personality or goals. Applying it in a different way, to try and make it suit you...may only make it ineffective. And since a whole part of the process (Plan B) is not an option for you....maybe it's the wrong process.

How about considering Michelle Weiner Davis's strategies? Or Shirley Glass? There's nothing wrong with looking at something that may work better for you. I'm certainly NOT trying to LOCK you into Plan B. If you want MB to work, it must be used the way it was intended....but if it can't be used that way....that's okay...but as opposed to just trying to adapt it....which may not work...look for something else. When I say "don't drop anchor here" that's what I mean.

If you ever want my input....you can post to me or email me....I will be very happy to offer you any help I can. starfish4729@hotmail.com I will keep you always in my prayers and I wish all the happiness in the world to you.

(((((((((((((Sue))))))))))))))))))))

Well, here is a surprise, he actually said "I love you" and he was not drinking.

Knock me over with a feather.

Gotta get the kids up

Oh, I have an interview on Friday and one of the jobs I applied for internally called, I have to call back

Well now this sounds like progress!!!

Good luck with the interview,if they are smart they will hire you,after all we know what a great nurse you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Ginger,
A lot of what Star said applies to you too.

On the outside we look fine.Inside I feel dead.
My D says you can see the misery on my face.

That is not what we want for you - and it's not what you want for you. I am not sure what you have tried so far - this is easy to say, hard to do......but - it may be time to do something different.

I know people who have lived like that for years, but it is not good for your health or happiness. I don't have the answers, I don't know a sure fix, but aren't there still things you can try?

SS

Sue,
It IS hard to know exaxtly how people are doing by the little bit we post. I misjudged seahorse once because she seemed happy when really she was near hitting bottom.

It looks like you have sort of been trying to get your feelings back for him. If I read correctly what you have said, your giver is not doing nearly as much work now - and you are watching to see how he does before you open up your heart again.

That would fit with the feelings you describe of wanting to stay some times, and wanting to leave other times.

I think Star does a good job of explaining how many of us feel when she relates her own feelings. We worry - but it's becasuse we care.
I was really afraid that you would be so tired after school was over that you wouldn't be able to recover - I have said similar things before.

So, I am happy for small things that point to him wanting to stay. Remember that recovering acholics with the best of intentions sometimes fall off the wagon, even the ones that fully recover. Look for the good in him, I think you will find it.

Good luck on the job -
I don't know what you need the most right now for YOU, but I hope you find that also.

SS

[ May 25, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS
Did I tell you that I finally told my oldest D about the A??

Well I did and she told my son so that has helped ME alot.

What have I tried...........I would say right after dday I went right into a plan A without really knowing it.H at that time was still involved with OW so he did not respond 100% to me, after months of this and getting nothing back I found myself not doing as much for him.

Today he is probably worse than before the A and he blames me for this.This behavoir gets me angry and then I will try so hard to keep quiet but I always end up saying something after a few days and then it ends in a fight.

Today was his day off,he made a comment about women all being the same during a movie we were watching so that opened the door for me to say something and then we started to argue and he took off.

I guess I just would not care so much but this is the same M he said he hated,the reason for the A.

We do talk about seperation,for me I think if we seperate it will be the end of our M and I get so angry that I threw away 27yrs of my life.
A part of me feels like he wants me gone so he does not have to face the problem head on this is always his answer to everything,send the problem away.
And there is the part that feels he wants out but does not want to look like the bad guy so if I leave he can tell everyone that I left him.
To this day he has not told anyone about his A.

I know I need to let go,but because there has been no change I have a big fear of this happening all over again.Right now I dont know what to do.I just hate the thought of giving in to him one more time its always been that way,I give into him he does little to nothing different.

[ May 25, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]

Hi Ginger, I have some more thoughts, I may as well type them out.

Today he is probably worse than before the A and he blames me for this. This behavoir gets me angry and then I will try so hard to keep quiet but I always end up saying something after a few days and then it ends in a fight.

It is not an LB to state your concerns in a respectful manner. It is hard to learn how to ALWAYS do it respectfully. How do you feel you do with that part of it?

Today was his day off,he made a comment about women all being the same during a movie we were watching so that opened the door for me to say something and then we started to argue and he took off.

So, are you saying someting like: "I feel hurt and unloved when you say things like that." Or, do you do it some other way.?

I guess I just would not care so much but this is the same M he said he hated,the reason for the A.

So, you want really badly to break the cycle, and you don't want to leave. I know it would be hard to come up with the money, but have you considered calling Penny for coaching? You need a starting place. I understand star*fish will be doing some coaching soon too - at least think about it.

We do talk about seperation,for me I think if we seperate it will be the end of our M and I get so angry that I threw away 27yrs of my life.
A part of me feels like he wants me gone so he does not have to face the problem head on this is always his answer to everything,send the problem away.
And there is the part that feels he wants out but does not want to look like the bad guy so if I leave he can tell everyone that I left him.
To this day he has not told anyone about his A.

You don't "throw away" your life if you do all you can. Please don't look at it that way. You learn, you grow, and you improve YOU. Perhaps it will work, perhaps it will not, but you can't do any better than your best - no one can. Just make sure you think it through and use up all your options first. Really, you can't change him, but you can spend time becomming the best Ginger possible.

I know I need to let go,but because there has been no change I have a big fear of this happening all over again. Right now I dont know what to do. I just hate the thought of giving in to him one more time its always been that way,I give into him he does little to nothing different.

A coach could help set boundries. You need some protection against loosing too much love to continue. I don't think it matters how good and kind you are, everyone has limits.

I keep wishing and hoping all the WS's out there will understand what it is that they have done, but some will not understand in this life. I don't know what your H will do, but I continue to hope he will understand and help. If not, you will do well - I really believe that. Never give up on yourself - you have the heart of a winner.

SS

[ May 26, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Sue, are you getting any rest this weekend, or will you be working?

SS

Thank you SS for all your comments.

At this point it is probably 50/50 with LB's.I try to talk calmly but when I get no response from him I do get angry,all I want is for him to be honest answer my questions and talk about his feelings about all of this.I want him to open up to me and let me know how he feels about our life our future and what he is able to do to change or what he is not able to do.

As for the movie,it was silly really the lady in the movie said to her H how he never talks to her about things,how he does not take into concern anyone but himself and that is when my H said "All women are the same" it upset me because I could see that she was not nagging her H just wanting to comunicate.Believe it or not the one thing my H said he liked so much about the OW was that he could talk to her.I understand that it is easier to talk to other people sometimes with no fear of thier reaction but to be able to open up to her and be totally shut down with me is hard for me to understand and handle.

My H will not go to MC I have asked,I bought books to try and help us thinking this would be a little easier for him he promised to read them but never did.I told him all the tools we needed to help us,to get past the A,and to build a healthier, happier ,stronger M were in these books and he chose to try and sweep it all under the rug thinking that it would just disapear.
I told him this morning that I do understand him wanting to forget it ever happened because of how he felt but what he did not understand is that he is dealing with that and I am dealing with a very deep pain that will not go away just by acting like it never happened.

My D asked me yesterday why I stay........I could not answer her,I dont know why I stay.

The internal applications fell through. Seniority beat me out. Oh well, I knew it was a possibility.

I did interview today. I thought it went very well. I think they will offer me the position. I will find out on Tuesday. She said she has to work the numbers, but she thinks she can beat what I am currently making. I don't know what benefits are like with this company. So, I will find out everything later. Fingers crossed for a job offer.

I dont know where the fingers crossed icon is so here is a big{{{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}and smile in hopes that you get the job,you deserve it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can only stay a minute of two - but I will be back after the weekend to comment some more on what you said, Ginger, and to tease Sue some more. I don't think I have done that enough lately. Sue, here's to you getting that job - and then some.

See you gals later.

SS

Have a great weekend SS!!!

I have to work Sat and Sun <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
But I have Mon,Tues,Wed off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hey Sue,
People are thinking about you. You don't have to respond, but smile when you read this. OK?

SS

Yeah Ginger, I am back to work, and you still have another day off. Lucky you. Don't waste it. Tie up your H while he is sleeping tonight, and don't untie him until he agrees to meet your needs. Think that would work? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Well, you know him best.

SS

LOL
I think the only need that would meet for me is he would be off the computer for a while until he got his hands untied. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The thing for me is this.........I had learned to settle for our life,I was not real happy......ok I was not happy at all but I accepted our relationship and how he was.What his A showed me is what HE is capable of.He IS capable of taking time,talking,being romantic and NOT being selfish if he chooses.I have pointed this out to him and all he does is walk away.
I told him all I really want is what he gave her.
TIME,CONVERSATION,and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.

But you can't demand those things from someone.

You have to ELICIT them.

Cecily

Telling someone what you want or need is not demanding, it is communicating.

I could not see Ginger being demanding. She is just too sweet.

Oh Ginger, it is hot and humid here (of course for you 90 is a breath of fresh air)

Hot and humid!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We have been in a heat wave out here,it just cooled down a bit I think it was only 105 yesterday LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It is way to hot for June,I wonder what Aug will be like.Do you have a spare room at your place incase I start to melt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks Sue for the reply.I dont think that I DEMAND what I want,but I must say things here have not been good.

I know things have not been good there. You have been putting up with him wanting to sweep it under the rug for so long and it is frustrating. Him not recognizing, acknowledging how this has hurt you. Him thinking that "I admitted to it, what more does she want from me. We should be able to just move on" However, your whole marriage, has mostly been about FWH, what he wants, what he wants to do, and Ginger just surviving through each and every day. (How close am I to being accurate?) After a while, there comes a time when you ask "what about me?" "doesn't what I want matter?"

Ginger dear, you know very well, what you want matters alot.

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}}}

I think we could find a spare room to put you in before you melt. Then we will send you back before you turn into a popsicle. (We don't have central air, just window air conditioning) (and I don't mean open windows either, but we do that too, not in this heat)

Sue you hit the nail right on the head.
My D lost it with my H not long ago then
afterwards she got upset w/me and said that I always put him first before the kids,H says I always put the kids first before him.
I wonder who put me first??

I am confussed and feel no matter what, I will not make the right choice.

Ginger - You said:
I wonder who put me first??

You need to start it - perhaps you did when you took your trip. You need to put you first - respect your self first, and then the respect from others follows.

Sue, still thinking about you. Hoping you get in enough laughter, and enough sleep.

Bet you are still short on sleep.

Ah, life doesn't stop when we take naps, does it. Still praying you get that job you are looking for. Hope H is still walking the line.

Cheers,

SS

Hi,

Still around, been very busy. I know, I am always busy.

I hope to update soon.

I hesitate, partly because, I don't want to prematurely post what maybe good stuff, especially since I have been that road before only to find out I was wrong.

So, in the mean time, I work more than I should, we fixed up the garage. It was looking like it should be knocked down. Now it is looking like the owners care about it.

Picked my first batch of strawberries that I planted last summer. Only got about 10 strawberries, but they sure were good.

My blueberry bush should be having berries soon. Planted that two years ago. H is taking an interest in the yard and house more.

Well Sue things sound pretty good in your part of the world.
I will now shock everyone,I am taking a week vacation and then a 30 day leave of absence,I am leaving in 3 days.There are alot of reason why,but I am so tired of hearing from my H,we need to be apart,I hate this life,I cant take it anymore.Today I told him he is getting his wish the kids and I will be gone on thurs.I told him he can pack up the apt himself,after all he should have plenty of time.

Ginger - wow. Well, when you take action, you take action. I don't know what else to say.

After a while, enough is enough I guess.

Call me

Sue wrote:
I hesitate, partly because, I don't want to prematurely post what maybe good stuff, especially since I have been that road before only to find out I was wrong.

Oh come on, just a teeny weeny hint? We'll be good with it, we promise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

It's a good sign that he is doing more in the yard. You serve what you love, and you love what you serve. It's a cycle. If he's doing better, his focus is more turned to you again.

SS

I am still banking on you Sue and cheering you on and convinced at post 1000, you will be able to really confront him with the truth and have it out with him.

I think 1000 is the magic number here.

I have a long way to go before I hit post 10000, since I am at 2500 right now.

I have been making more discoveries lately. I'm sure the A is over, for now. I think she ended it, not him as he said he would. I'm not surprised.

I am surprised to find out that he lied to her as much as he lied to me. I really wonder if she knew that he was married. I'm thinking she did not. But that does not say much about her smarts if she could not figure it out. She recently found out that he has a daughter. Yes, little princess, he never told her about her. She is 5 years old, almost 6 and he never told her that he has three children. She knew about the boys.

I have a whole range of emotions going through me. Happy that it is over, sad that he did not end it, but she did, so I question that it will happen again. Or wil they start up again. If he is being dishonest with her, what is he telling her.

She made a reference to the two of them making plans to do stuff with the boys, and later, WH would come back and tell her "no". I can only assume he told her, that I said "no". So, she mentioned that she would be upset that she could not get to know them.

I felt I did not have a real marriage, many times I felt like I was the mistress. What kind of a man did I marry. What kind of a man does what he did to her knowing full well that he could not follow through on those plans. After all, if he attempted it, what would he have said to the boys "oh, by the way, this is my girlfriend, dont' tell mommmy" "oh, and don't tell my girlfriend that I am married to your mommy"

Is he insane??? No one in their right mind makes plans that they know they cannot follow through on.

I've thought of calling her, asking to meet with her. Honestly, it is the only way either one of us will come to some idea of the truth. I don't believe that I will ever get it from him. Never. And even then, will it be the truth, it will only be what we each knew to be the truth.

Did he tell her I was some sort of crazy lunatic who is obsessed with him and cannot accept that my marriage is over. I can only guess what she was told.

I'm starting to think that he is crazy and imbalanced.

The last couple of weeks, H has been irritable.

I found two new jobs to apply for, going to give it my best shot. One is internal with the Nursing home organization, if I get it, it will be with a rehabilitation facility, the other one is a pediatric facility.

I have not heard from the one I applied to at the end of May. That one I thought I had it. I called a couple of times to inquire about it. Each time, she said that they will be getting back to me. I have heard nothing.

Tomorrow, it is time to call a couple that have my application on file and inquire into the status. These two, I call on once a month so they know I am still interested.

Maybe I should get my license in WI, it is only a 30 min drive to the border.

Thanks for the update, It is nice to know what's happening with you these days.

Is there less stress in your life now than there was a year ago?

Are you more at ease around your H than you were a year ago?

Do you feel (most days) that your M can succeed?

I read what you said about H's reasons for quitting, and I thought about what a college english professer told me once a long time ago. He said it the reason doesn't matter. If someone quits smoking and they don't smoke again, the reason doesn't matter, they still get the benifits of not smoking.

I understand your concerns, but if he quit the A, and he meets your needs, and you get yours met by him, your marriage can heal, and things can be good again. Try to think of it that way.

2004 is a good year for root beer. Not too sweet, but just right. I don't think it would ship though, sometimes the bottles blow up, and they would probably call homeland security on me.

SS

Is there less stress, in general, I would say yes.

Will my marriage succeed, I don't know. Right now, I am very disgusted with him.

Hi,

Not sure what to think right now.

For a while, things were really good. "Honeymoon Period" I guess you could call it. This past week, he changed, alot.

He claims it is because he is worried about his health, which very well could be.

He is diabetic (and really does not comply with diet, or at least not until recently)

High blood pressure (not uncommon with a diabetic), he keeps too much inside.

Lets not forget the high cholesterol.

He will not do counseling, he keeps too much to himself.

I'm not sure if he has been in contact with her or not.

I know she ended it, I don't see much e-mail between them, mostly her venting wanting to know why he mislead her, why he made promises he had no intention of keeping, stuff like that.

I've thought about confronting him again - but not sure if I want to just yet.

I know most would say I should, then he would change password on this account, and I would be totally in the dark about what is going on.

I don't like not knowing what is going on.

I've thought often about divorce, thinking that life would be easier, less conflict.

He seems depressed, irritable,

Is it withdrawal? At one point, I thought he was trying to get her back, is it not working and now he is in withdrawal? Is that why he is having troubles controlling his blood sugar, the stress of everything?

I could tell him and show him how stress contributes to many medical conditions and living a double life is very stressful, so if he wants to improve his health, he needs to stop the double life, but he would not believe me.

He thinks he is dying, he is convinced he will die soon.

It is hard for me to be sympathetic, when I know all it would take for him to get things under control is lifestyle changes. Changes he has to be willing to make.

He has to stop blaming others for his high blood pressure. He says it is mine and the kids fault. Why? Because the kids yell and fight as siblings do, and as a parent, I punish them, sometimes yell when necessary to get their attention or to make a point. He says that raises his blood pressure. Sometimes I think he has some unrealistic ideas of how children should behave and since mine behave as normal children do, he cannot deal with it. Lets face it, siblings fight, sometimes once in a while, sometimes daily.

WH claims he did not fight with his brother like ours do. So, where did the stories come from regarding MIL sometimes taking WH's younger brother with her because she was afraid WH would hurt him?, or the story about a knife being stuck in a door during a fight (yes I said knife). There is many more stories and yet WH insists they did not fight like ours do. He is right, mine have not used weapons. They hit, pinch, bite, such as today, they got the lecture on behaving and "no hitting, pinching, biting, name calling, throwing things in anger or tantrum" while at my sisters (neice is babysitting while I make up some time at work. (on break)) MS says, "I didn't bite". I replied, "I know that, I'm just covering all bases incase you get any ideas of doing something I did not specify"

WH has been disappearing alot lately. He says he is taking my suggestion of walking. However, my suggestion was to walk around the block, not a lake 20 minutes away. So, is he meeting her or is he really walking alone as he claims.

I've starting looking at apartments, I still love him, but I don't know if I can live with him. It does not hurt like it use to, but it still does.

My thinking has starting going to a more "me" orientated type of thinking.

On the job hunting side of things, I received a call for an interview. I returned the call, missed her. I hope to catch up with her on Monday. The job is with a State run nursing home. Pays less than what I make at the nursing home I am at. I hear the benefits are cheaper than what I currently pay. I want to hear the whole package deal. Maybe the lower benefit cost will cancel out the reduced pay, and I might take home the same as I do now. It does not hurt to interview. It it turns out, it will give me experience.

So, after all I said, am I happy, for the most part I am. I started doing what I want and making decisions in my best interest, not his. At this point, I need to do that.

I used to try to look for jobs that would work for the whole family, now I look for jobs that will work for me and the kids. It is what I need to do.

Hi Sue

I hope the job you want comes thru,it will make things so much easier for you.

Its funny how much our H's are alike,what would life be like if everything was someone elses fault?? I often wonder when my H will wake up and realize that alot of the bad in our life is due to him and decisions HE made.
But in his world its all the kids and me.

Funny now that he is getting what he told me he wanted he does not seem so sure about wanting it,telling me that everything will work out,that he does not want to loose me.Maybe he should have thought of that before he told me he wanted out,and could not take our life anymore.

Maybe a wake-up call in is order for your H also.
Its hard,its scary but is it fair that you have to live the way you do right now??
No its not you deserve the best.

Oh and by the way MY kids never had fights...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (you know thats a stretch of the truth right!!!!!!!!)

Sue,
Your kids fight?

Have they been doing this for a long time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Your family sounds normal to me.

I am just now getting some of the stories of things my kids have done over the years. I'm glad I didn't catch them at any of it, because either they or me would probably be in jail.

I really don't udnerstand why so many of us men don't get it when our wives tell us they have a need. We expect you gals to understand our needs and take care of us, so why can't it go both ways?

If you told him you had a boyfriend for the last two years, but you wanted to come clean and by the way, "can't we just get past this, and move on" - well, I expect he would want to talk about things a little bit. How is it that he can't grasp that concept? Maybe I should call him up and explain some things.

You should expect counseling, and I would hope he will help things out (and himself too!!) by going with you.

You sound like you are still working too hard, and getting too little rest. W and I find that two trips a year together with out the kids do wonders for our relationship. Do you have your next one planned? it sounds like you really enjoyed the Vegas trip. Note that we don't always have the funds either, sometimes we go camping. At least we get to spend time together.

I wish you would get that job, so I could quit worring about that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for the update, we hate wondering how you are.

SS

I have an interview on Tuesday, two more applications to submit. These are not nursing jobs, but they put me in the medical field, where I will have exposure to a clinic or hospital floor. These will be combining my 15 years of office and the nursing training/knowledge such as documentation, terminoligy. Pays what I make now, I hear benefits are cheaper, in in a way it is a raise.

OS came up to me last night, I was preoccupied as I usually am with trying to decide what do do about my M. He asked me what was wrong, I told him adult stuff, and I'm trying to decide what is in the best interest of everyone concerned. he responded with a "I know, you are trying to decide if you should divorce dad or not".

So, we had a talk. I did not tell him about dad's affair. He is too young for that. Im just told him that I am not happy, and I don't want a divorce, so I have been trying to make things work and I want them to have as little disruptions in their lives as possible. I explained that when I married his dad, I expected it to be forever and that is the way it should be. Sometimes it is not and this is a big decision that cannot be made quickly. I also explained that before people divorce, they should try to make it work.

I think he is back with her. I'm not sure though. He has been very moody.

Two weeks ago, it was great, he was concentrating on the house, family etc. Now, he is moody and irritable. So either he is going through withdrawal or he is back with her and feeling even more guilty than before.

I don't know what to do right now, except concentrate on me. I don't know if I have the energy or desire to meet any of his needs right now.

I have to keep focusing on the future. I think often of moving north about 4 hours away. Far enough away to be inconvient, but close enough to stay in touch with my sisters and see them often.

Or you could move right next door to ME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sue I only hope the best for you,I know you and you deserve to be happy,you work way to hard to come home at night and not be happy.

I am not happy,will I be after the move?? I dont know but I do know that even tho I have not started my new job they have already made me feel like I am worth something.I recieved a call from the personel manager today and she asked me why was I taking a part time evening job with all my experiance?? I told her so that I could help my daughter out,she said wow thats awsome but I have a postion open for more hrs if you want it.It made me feel so good.

I hope that I can learn how to do something for me.
Sue,please make your decision on what is best for YOU,the kids will survive but will you??

Take care my dear friend.I will call you soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ July 22, 2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: gingersnap ]

[ July 26, 2004, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Ok,
What did I miss?

Always a day late, and a dollar short, but lately about 20 dollars short.

Sue,
You OK?

SS

I hope you are doing okay Sue.

Hi,

I am new here. I was actually asked to check out this site a long time ago by my wife. I guessI need to give a little history huh? Well, I am a cheater. I had an affair that lasted 3+ years. I was strictly a sexual relationship with a co-worker that gave me everything sexually that I never got a home. Not just sexually, but also in the affection and attention department too. I deeply regret what I did and my wife and I have gone to counseling and have been working to get past this for the past year and a half. She has rubbed my nose in this over and over again and I deservered it all. I know I was wrong and I have made all necessary changes to make my marriage better. My problem now is with her. I have recently discovered a "new" man in her life, a co-worker. I had been having my suspicions, but never had anything concrete. Well, my wife went out with "friends" about 3 weeks ago but her story did not add up, I overheard her on the phone with her "friend" ( mind you she was in the bathroom with the door closed hiding). To make a long story short, I asked my wife to call whoever he was back and tell him it was over and she wouldn't do it. I found out who "he" was and I called him. He claimed all that ever went on was a few kisses. He said he was married and that he was sorry and that he would not carry it further. Well, about a week after this occured I saw my wifes cell phone bill and the night that she "supposedly" went out with friends she called a hotel that evening and also the day before. After she called th hotel she called her "friend". Well, I called the "friend" again and of course he back pedaled and said that he didn't go with her. He said that my wifes girlfriend cheats on her husband and that she used my wifes cell phone to call the hotel and that she does it all the time. Well, I checked my wife's cell phone records from the past 3 months and the only time a hotel had been called was those two days!! I guess she thinks that since I have no concrete evidence that she can continue to lie. I am not stupid! What do I do at this point? HELP! My wife even had the nerve to say that what she did was not cheating. She said that because I had an affair and did what I did it wa not cheating??? What is that? I know I did wrong, but we have gone through counseling to get past this. I am not going to leave her, but I want her to be honest. What do I do?

Hi all,

Very busy, so I have to be quick

Marriage: A few days ago, it was very tension filled and alot of arguing, WH was thinking of leaving, As of Tuesday, and everyday getting better WH says he wants to try to make it work, and we have talks of future. Tension is gone, looks very promising and hopeful. (Plus side to the arguing and tension, I lost a dress size, but my emotional state cannot handle this as a weight loss method, there has to be a better way to get in shape <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Job: Very hopeful, interview at beginning of the week, I received a call back, I was recommended for hire, now I have to have a second interview before the final decision. This one, I have to get more information on. It involves a pay cut from my current job, however, my understanding is that benefits are excellent and cheaper, so it might even out. If I work 3rd shift, there would be shift differential. I will have to work the numbers to be sure financially it can be afforded. But you cannot buy experience, which is what I am truly lacking.

[ July 30, 2004, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

SS- you didn't miss anything - just a very very horrible vent on my part. Major LB's involved if WH would have seen it or if I would have said it to him.

Sue,
cheering for success for you on all fronts,
from sidelines,
FBOW

A coworker just told me about a conversation she overheard here at work outside her cube wall in the main hallway. She told me she almost went around and wanted to tell them that she is busy working and does not want to hear the personal details of her life.

This woman she overheard was bragging about how she was going to try to get her married boyfriend to leave his wife. I thought, OMG, I cannot believe she is talking openenly about it as if it is something to be proud of.

Things will get worse before they get better.

It is hard to deal with some parts of this world, when you wish for a better one.

How are you doing personally?

I am not talking about jobs, or how H treated you today.

Deep down inside, how are you doing?

I am still amazed how well you can function no matter what is happening, but then, you have lots of practice.

How are the kids doing this summer? Did you get to do anyhing fun?

Thinking about you, wanted to check in.

SS

As usual, my life it way too busy. I keep saying it will slow down soon. Baseball has finished and now football started.

I heard from one of the jobs I interviewed for.

I GOT IT!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm trying to decide how to handle this. I won't hear from the other one until the end of this week. That is the one I really want, but I will take the other one.

For me to give proper notice at my current job, I need to do it today. However, If the one I really want comes through, that will not start until the second week of September. I will lose two weeks pay if I give notice today.

I do have one week vacation coming to me, so I am thinking of waiting to give notice, and give two weeks, and have the last week as vacation.

It is kind of inappropriate for me to do that, but I don't want to jeapordize the for sure job offer, I also know I cannot afford to lose two weeks pay by quiting the for sure one because the one I want came through. The one I want pays better, benefits about the same, and the unit sounds very interesting.

Trying to get everything ready for the kids before school starts.

As for me, my moods go up and down. Recently, I was really down. But, it is better now.

Regarding jobs, I decided which one I want. I'm not going to wait to hear from the one that pays better. I found out how much the benefits cost and I was shocked that they considered that a benefit. 700.00/mo for medical and dental. I know I am spoiled, I'm used to reasonable priced benefits. Today I go and sign some papers and give all the proper ID.

It is sort of scary, I've been at my job for 16 years.

Hi Sue,
It's good to hear from you - and it is really good that you got one of the jobs you wanted.

As for YOU - you said:

As for me, my moods go up and down. Recently, I was really down. But, it is better now.

This is probably silly, but I have worried over the months that on one of these really down times you would bail out - because you were down, not because H had really changed anything.

I still worry a lot about you, but I am trying to reduce it quite a bit. I don't want you to keep wondering what you should do, I want your H to work on this with all his heart so you will regain a measure of trust - and get some of that spark back. I hope it is happening, at least slowly.

At least you have some adventure going on with your new job, you won't be bored in the next month or so.

Are you smiling enough these days?

SS

Papers are signed, orientation is set up, I start 8/23 as a full time nurse. Gave notice at my job of 15yeas, went to an on call status at the Nursing Home. I could not quit becuase nursing home have a hard time getting and retaining employees, so I figure I can help out once or twice a month. I don't want to too much, that will burn myself out.

There is a 2 hour time difference from when WH leaves for work and when I will get home, so my neice is moving in to help out. She wants some independence from her mom, so this way, she has a free place to live and I get free babysitting and she will take the kids to daycare on her way to picking up her brother and boyfriend who she will drop off at their school, then go to her school.

I told WH, that she is not their to take his place so he can come and go as he wants. She has her own job, her own life, she has her own baby to care for and a boyfriend she wants to see.

Trying to figure out the budget. Have to pay for hockey at the end of the month.

Two more days at old job.

Start new job on Monday.

A little scared, alot nervous.

Marriage, questionable. I'm more worried I will flop in my new job.

Congratulations on the new job. I am sure you will do just fine even if first few days or weeks might be very stressful and demanding for you. I admire you very much for all the changes you accomplished in your professional life since we started posting on MB.
FBOW

Hi Sue,

I identify with scared, and nervous.

I know you believe you will do well, and logic says that you can handle it, but the butterflies don't stay away just because logic says they ought to.

If you want to talk about your marriage in more detail, I don't think anyone here will beat up on you. You have been really quiet for someone as conversational as Sue.

I can still tease, can't I?

Praying for your success.

SS

[ August 22, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Started Job today

Marriage, not much to say.

On the surface it all looks well, but is it really?

Nothing has really changed, I think they are back together.

I know I should do something, but right now, with all the changes with job, and stuff, I cannot do it right now.

I'm tired alot because the kids are not listening and going to bed as told, so I don't get enough sleep. WH is just as tired, for the same reason, so I don't say much right now. I know we both would have a short fuse because we are tired.

Going to bed, kids are at grandmas, so tonight I can get a good night sleep

S- Hi there. It's been forever since I've been here, but I was thinking of you, and wanted to see how you were doing! Congrats on the new job!!! I'm just sorry that you are still having to deal with WH's crap!

Things are going well for me and FWH. We are still in therapy (over 2 years of it now!) and are in a really good place... but then there will always be my "sister" lurking in the back... I had to see her for the first time in 2 years a couple of months ago... I thought it would be easy (except, I started smoking again that day... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) At least I know I have my family behind us now. (whew) Life has been better since she's been gone!

I hope things continue to improve for you! You deserve it!

You are never far from my thoughts!
-mac

Ok Sue,
I can't stand it any more. You are going to really get it now.

I think you need to do some things. I think they are past due.

First.
Get more sleep. I don't know how in the world you have help up so well over the last few years, and done all that you have done, but the miles will continue to build up and eventually cause problems if you don't start getting proper maintance. I should say this different - Please get more sleep.

2nd.
Yes, please do concentrate on your job. You have lots of things to worry about, but if you can get comfortable with the job, those worries will fade in a few months, and you can go back to being a full time mom again, and maybe even worry about being a wife again.

3rd.
Do something fun.
That LV trip was a long time ago. You may not be vested in your vacation time yet, but at least take a day or two and do something without the kids. Kids are wonderful, and they are rewearding, but they are demanding too. Take some time for you.

Please forgive me for being so demanding, but I still say it's about time. Sometimes you just need to say things straignt out and not worry about what someone thinks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Smile, people like you.

SS

[ August 27, 2004, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

SS - you said it just fine. I know I need more sleep. I am quick tempered when I don't get enough sleep.

I know I need to concentrate on my new job, soon I will settle into it and be able to concentrate on home. Right now, I am very afraid I will fall flat on my face in my new position. I left a job I had for 15 years. It fit like an old shoe, ugly but comfortable. Sometimes, I wonder if that is how I could describe my marriage?

We have plans to go out of town in a couple of weeks. WH, has an out of town ball tournament, he found a place in the area he wants to rent for the weekend. It was described as a romantice get away. (or at least he wanted to stay there when he showed it to me, this was during the time WH and OW split up).

WH call me more than he used to. He calls my cell as soon as he is done with work.

Gott go figure out the budget. Even though I have a job that pays a little better, next month will be tight unless I figure something out. The pay period ending and paydays from my current job to my past job are very different. I will be minus almost a paycheck in September. But October looks very good. I'll make it work, I always do.

Mac - good to hear from you. I'm sorry that seeing your sister got you smoking again. I hope you quit right away. She is not worth ruining your health over. I'm glad to hear that things are going well with you and H. You two have made some great progress.

I know I wish I could report the same.

Gotta go. I'm trying to get the kids on their school schedule.

Did I tell you guys that middle son signed up for football. He loves it.

Sitting up late thinking about my marriage, WH, OW.

My question is, is she an OW, in my mind she is, sometimes I wonder does she know he is married?

Did he tell her we divorced?

When I think of the e-mails I read between them, I think she does not know.

It was painful to read about the plans they made, I also read and felt her pain.

She talked about plans they made together to do stuff with the boys. Why would she expect to make plans with my WH to do things with the boys if she knew he was married. I would have thought that someone who is knowingly involved with a MM would not expect involvement with the family while the WH is married and living a married life. She commented how they made these plans, only for him to come back later and tell her no. So, what did he say to her? I can only guess what lies he told her about me.

She talked about wanting to spend holidays with her family and his family. Most OW's would not expect to spend holidays with the MM family, but she wanted it.

Why did he go throught he motions of planning a marriage when he is married and cannot legally get married while married. He went as far as setting a date.

He had her take the registry off.

Then I wonder, why would she stay with a man that she has been with for this lenght of time, and she has not met his family, his children have not met her, he did not tell her about the existence of his daughter, who is almost 6 until recently. If I was with a man this long, and he has not introduced me to his family, I would be thinking he is not as committed as he wants me to believe.

I could rack my brain over this, and I will probably never understand it, so why do I even try. I know, I am trying to apply reason and rationale to an unrationale situation.

It is obvious he lies to me and her, probably more to her than to me.

Hi Sue
Glad to see I am not the only one that sits up and tries to figure out all of the mess that an A causes.

Like you I try to figure out what he was thinking why he said and did the things he did why why why..........problem is there is no answer to the why's.I hate that part.

So how is Sue inside??
I know on the outside you are so strong,brave and couragous(sp) but how is Sue doing on the inside??

How did the first week of work go??
I know starting a new job is scary but I have now been at my job for 1month and no longer feel nerous or afraid at work and wish I was at my old job the comfortable one,you will soon feel this way.

If you ever need to talk just call,I am here for you.
Take care my friend.

Dear Sue;

as you know I am not a very patient person. I have met you here two years ago and now this latest thread is over a thousand posts long.

You are still miserable and there is always another reason for you not to take action. Sue, dear Sue, why do you continue to put up with this?

It was outrageous that your H set a wedding date with another woman. OUTRAGEOUS. Why are you enabling this A?

Things to do?
Let him have it - boundaries, limits. Plan B.

You know who the OW is. Call her. Talk to her. Tell her that he is married to you. That he has children and a wife. That he has been lying to her as well.

Sue, you sound so depressed and unhappy. Please do change something in your life. It is up to you. You have the power to be happy again.

Love,

Hi Sue,

Can you tell Liza cares about you?
(smile, it's good for your face.)

How is the new job going?

Any better with the sleep now?

How about you, do you work the weekend?

I just thought of something, I think I'll go give cerri grief.

SS

Job is going okay

How am I, tired, tired and tired.

Adjusting to new hours, kids adjusting to new hours, trying to get organized, etc, etc.

Last week was my first week on nights,

I know Liza cares, and I'd respond if I was not too tired. I just got home from work and I am going to bed.

Right now, I dont' think much about my marriage or the state it is in. I'm too tired to do that.

Going to bed, getting some sleep, picking the kids up, doing homework, football, clean house, try to get a nap if time, then back to work.

Once I adjust to this, I think it will get easier. (I hope), I'm talking about work, not marriage.

Thanks for everyone's caring.

Good to hear from you I have been wondering about you (and worrying too)

Is H helping at all??

Depends on your definition of help.

In his mind, yes, I wanted and expected more.

I really like the job, when I am there, I don't wish I was somewhere else, I think I am just tired of working and wish I could take time off, but I can't.

I am concerned after I am finished with orientation. A nurse that oriented me one night, warned me about one of the aides. She quit because of him. She later came back with the understanding that she will not have to work with him. He made inappropriate sexaul comments to her, once tried to corner her and kiss her. She started dreading coming to work. He bad mouthed her, saying she was prejudice. He is a black male.

gotta go

Most all of us expect more from our H's I know I do,I am beginning to think my H is not able to change and a life with him will always be the same.I know you can relate,the question is what do I want??

As for the Aid just please be very carefull I do not want to hear that anything has happened to you.But then again knowing you I think you could take him down!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for work,you are probably right,I know for me only working outside of the house part-time right now has been so nice.Funny tho,my job away from home is easier than the job at home watching the grandkids...LOL

Take care I miss you my friend.
Any good days to call you??
Would just like to touch base thats all.

Talk to you soon.

Dear Sue:

yes I care about you. I will be forever grateful to you for the posts you wrote to me in the summer of 2002.

I worry about you. You are still stuck in unhappiness (sorta like me, duh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Sometimes it seems like a maze where the others are looking in from the outside and they can see the exit way, but we can't.

Life should not be just work and taking care of the kids. We have to LIVE and look for happiness for ourselves. I don't want to wake up one day, maybe in twenty years and realize that I have ben unhappy about the A EVERY day since the summer of 2002. NOPE...I want happiness back. For me that means those peaceful, wonderful moments with my H. The poor guy sure has been trying, so I've been kinda lucky.

Sue, I wish happiness to come your way. I hope you can see the way out of your unhappiness.

Love,

Hey Liza,
I haven't been on "recovery " lately,
you must be doing much better?

How did you overcome your fears?

You sound soooooo much better. I am happy for you.

SS

Hey Sue !!!

Smile, if you can't get rest, at least you can pretend to be rested.

This brings me to the topic for today.

Rest is one of those things that "pretend" doesn't work for. You can't inject it with a needle, and you can't buy it at home depot - or even super wal mart.

Since you already know how lack of rest affects us, I won't go on and on.

What I want to know, is what will you do about it?

I think I understand, and I know your stamina is greater than the average mortal, but you have limits too. What are you going to do about it?

Please give us the time table, and smile, we only ask because we care.
Ok, OK, PLEASE smile.

I still pray for your family, I still worry. Think I see improvement, but if you are too tired to recognize it, it won't help. (You do know you are being teased, don't you?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK, I tell bad jokes, and I'm not good at teasing, but at least........at least......at least I have a bad memory??

Anyway, the time table for rest and recovery - in writing. Ha,Ha, don't think you can get out of this by changing the subject.

SS

I'll reply when I am done laughing at SS

Laughing??

Changing the subject already ...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So many things to ask, so little cordination with my fingers after 11:00 PM.

OK, so are you going to the bonfire this time? I asked cerri about it just for you.

SS

[ September 18, 2004, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Sue,

I can empathize with with your new work situation.

When I made the decission to return to work, I took a possition that was 12hr over night's, the money was good, and it allowed me to take care of my children durring the day, it just didn't allow for sleep.

I did take that possition with the feeling that we were moving for divorce though.

I hope you are finding time to rest and relax, and I hope your H is stepping up to the plate.

Get some REST!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The bonfire - I don't know if I am going or not. Both weekends are full of activities and depending which weekend, is settled upon, I might be working.

Both weekends have football finals, and hockey clinics and tryouts start up in October.

WH made sure the kids let me sleep so I could rest before work. I was sleeping so sound that when he work me, it startled me that I jumped and almost hit him.

We went to a movie ealier today, as far as progress towards our marriage, I don't know. It does not help any that he will not talk about it, and when he does, it is in short little comments.

So glad to hear you got a little sleep,did it make you feel better??
I sure hope so.

As for talking when you learn how to get your H to open up and talk could you send me the instructions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Sue,

What Ginger said got me to thinking.

It was funny - about if you figure it out to send her the instructions.

What does he say when you ask him to talk?

I would think (and this is my style) that if you ask him something like this, he would have a hard time NOT talking. "we need to talk, because the way we have been doing things isn't working for me. Would you like to talk tonight, or tomorrow night?"

So does he change the subject, or refuse to talk, or say he can't asnwer that, or what does he do?

Maybe I should start over.

What things will he help with? What DOES he do to help you?

What things won't he do that you need?

SS

He usually does the total avoidance, if not that, then I get the frustrated "not this again", or "I don't know"

It does not help me any that I ran into my ex boyfriend again. The one from 20 years ago. When I run into him and compare the relationship I had with him and my current marraige, I wonder if I had not broken it off with him, would I be happily married to him today? Oh well, I cannot spend my time wondering about the could have beens.

I was 21 and wanted to have fun and party, he was 27, ready to settle down and be a fuddy duddy. Besides, after two years of going out, he never once talked about a future together, so I figured it was a dead end no where relationship. I did find out about five years later, he wanted to marry me. If he only would have said something, it might have made a difference. Then again, maybe it would not have. Can't live in the past. I dont' ahve time for it anyway. I only get the thoughts right after running into him, then I forget about it.

He usually does the total avoidance, if not that, then I get the frustrated "not this again", or "I don't know"

One of the reasons people use MC is that they often have differences in the way they communicate. The MC can usually figure out a way to help that part.

I know he won't go to MC, but in our case, I was able to study up on it, and find ways to reach my W in spite of our diffeences. I am still learning, but we have come a long way.

I am not sure what you have read, and I am afraid you may think, "I am tired of this, it's his turn."

HOWEVER, I continue to study and learn, and find ways to help her understand my feelings. She really does care, and when she understsands, she helps.

Do you want to move foreword, and do you want a direction? Am I helping, or should I let you rest, becuause I know you need that too.

I keep thinking that your H helped more at one time, and that it could be that way again.

Some just lack the proper motivation. There is the story about a man that wanted to quit smoking, and he answered an add that promised to help you quit. The references showed a 100% success rate, so he signed up - and paid in advance. The next morning, when he awoke, he was missing his little finger, and a note said that unless he quit, it would get worse.
He quit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Would your H respond if we could find the proper stimulation? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I suppose that the bottom line about communication is that men often see a request to talk as an attack upon their integrety. There are ways to work into it more gently - I am wondering if you already understand, and have tried it, or if I should give you references to read.

I wonder a lot more, but you need rest more than most things right now, so I'll quit for tonight.

You sound really good some days, and I worry about you others. If you don't mind, I will continue to worry a little bit, some days <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

See you around,

SS

[ September 22, 2004, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Hi SS,

You can worry.

What could you recommend? Some days I am tired of all of this, and I do think, there has to be something better. Some days, I do wonder why do I have to do all the work, is he worth it?

All I have to do is look at my kids, and I tell myself, just a little bit longer.

I wonder if there is a better life for me without him? Is there a better life for me with him?

I am open to any suggestions that will help communication between us.

so far what I am doing is not working

Hi Sue,
It's good to hear from you - I know you are busy. (Busy, what an understatement!)

You can worry.

Thanks, it's nice to have your permission to do what I was going to do anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What could you recommend? Some days I am tired of all of this, and I do think, there has to be something better. Some days, I do wonder why do I have to do all the work, is he worth it?

We don't know if he is worth it, but we know you are. If you don't do your best, you will regret it someday, and also, it would be out of character for you to give less than about 200%.

All I have to do is look at my kids, and I tell myself, just a little bit longer.

They are a great motivation for a mother, but I still think you ought to do it for you, because you deserve it.

I wonder if there is a better life for me without him? Is there a better life for me with him?

I think it is too soon to tell. You wanted to finish school, and get a job before you confronted him. That took a great toll on you, I think more than you believed it would. We were afraid for you the whole time, and we worried you would get to the point where you would just walk away from him.

I am pleased that you are still there, helping him, because I know he needs help. My W could have walked away from me, but she is still here taking care of me, for which I will be eternally grateful. I freely admit I needed the help.

I am open to any suggestions that will help communication between us.
So far what I am doing is not working.

Have you read "Men are from Mars, women from Venus" by John Gray?

I found it a few months ago at a 2nd hand store for $2.00. I tend to stay away from books that get a lot of hype, and I wasn't going to read it, but figured for two bucks, I might as well try it. Remember, this is after nearly 2 1/2 years on MB and I already understand soooooo much. NOT.

I learned a lot - especially about communication with my W. Don't get me wrong, I like the differences between us - at least some of them. It's just that there are some others that I just don't get. I read the book, and I memorized the way I am supposed to do things, and it works, but I don't understand it at all. Sometimes it's like we are aliens in the same house - like we are from different planets. Hmmm, yes, Mars, and Venus.................. that would explain it.

Here are some of the things I got out of it that I think would help you.

There are good times, and bad times to talk. If you try during one of the bad times, you feel unloved, hurt, and like quitting, because you don't get a response that supports and helps you.

This goes for how you do it too, there are better or worse ways to bring things up. Men and women usually go about it differently, and you can usually find ways to do it so that they will respond the way you desire. Same thing as above, if you do it in some ways, you get rejected and wonder if it's time to quit.

I don't think it will be magic, I don't think it will change either of your responses over night, but I think it will help you.

As far as doing the work. Would it offend you if I was to say that I believe that a lot of your feelings now are because of the long time you put in doing all the work with absolutely no help from him. I see that when confronted, he did stay.

He has bad habits to overcome. These are love busters for you, and the fact is, it does continue to take a toll on your feelings for him. He did stay though, and he tries, even if he is still in the fog to a large extent. He may have relapses, almost all addicts do.

He does have an addiction. He made his choice to stay with you, but the addiction takes time to work it self out of the system. It will take time for him to come back and do everything he is supposed to do. I am not making excused for him, he made choices - really bad ones. You can leave if you want, I wouldn't fault you, but that's where he is, and it will take time and love, and help for him to get out of it - even though it is his fault he is there.

So anyway, (I get off track sometimes) it looks like you worked so hard, for so long, with so little result, that you suffered from MB burnout. Don't be afraid to keep it going a little bit, not as hard as you did before, but do a little bit and see if he responds.

After all you have been through, it is fun to dream about a better life, but there are a lot of worse ones out there too, and I am glad my W never gave up on me.

I hope you make it to the bonfire - the kids would love it. Maybe I will even go one of these years.

People still care about you, because you are worth caring about. Did you know that?

SS

Right now, I just make it through each day.

Still looking for work. The job I have, is okay, but it is not what I want, so I am submitting updated resumes to all the places I want to get hired at.

Marriage, I dont' know where it is at, and right now, I don't put much thought into it.

I know, he is still here, he has not left, so that should speak volumes, however, is he really here? Does he wish he was somewhere else? with someone else? does he regret marrying me? Does he think marriage is some huge joke not to be taken seriously.

I know he has one friend, well, lets put it like this. I dont' know if he would continue being his friend if he knew the truth. If he did continue, I know he would let him know how wrong it is to cheat.

Gotta go drop off resumes

Hi Sue
I sure miss you.I'm off this weekend,if you read this and you are able call me so we can talk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Does he wish he was somewhere else? with someone else? does he regret marrying me? Does he think marriage is some huge joke not to be taken seriously.

Do you wish you were somewhere else?

Do you regret marriying him?

Does it feel like your marriage is a joke, because of the way he has treated you in the past?

You are still there, but what exactly does that mean?

Sometimes the qestions we ask can tell us a lot about our own feelings. Do these help you define, and understand your own feelings?

Understand about the job.
Still feel you need time for yourself, just like Ginger.

Wonder how you are doing on lots of other things.
- things I know you you have had thoughts about.

How are you doing PERSONALLY, on the things you would like to fix about you?

Do these things, and the good or bad feelings they generate have anything to do with your thoughts on marriage?

SS

Sue,
If you can get up the energy, come tell us how you are.

SS

right now, I am tired. WH caught a cold, then kids caught it, and I now have it. Right now, I sleep alot.

Otherwise, I keep evaluating and reevaluating what do I want for me, what do I want from him, what do I want for the kids and what do I want out of this marriage.

I mainly believe he does not deserve me or the kids and I don't deserve this garbage.

Sorry to hear of the cold that does not make things any easier,especially where you are working.

As for what you said.......you are right you deserve more,so do the kids and your H in my opinion has it way to good.

Get some more rest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Feeling some better, still tired.

Short note before picking up the kids from daycare

WH asked me if I wanted to go on a trip if we could afford it for our anniversary. As he put it, "a second honeymoon, or maybe the first one we never had".

I've been here too many times before to get too hopeful that this is the beginning of the end of the A.

Dropping off some more application forms. Hopefully one of these will produce the job I want

Hi Sue,
It is always good to hear from you. Did you know that?

Feeling some better, still tired.

Do you smile much? That's a good indicator for me. When my daughter says "did, why don't you smile more," then I know I need to do something different.

Last time I ..............I should probably keep my mouth shut, sorry.

WH asked me if I wanted to go on a trip if we could afford it for our anniversary. As he put it, "a second honeymoon, or maybe the first one we never had".

So he has moments when his thoughts are on the right track. I would take him up on it if I were you.
Like one lady (on one of these threads, but I don't know who, or which one) said about sex. She said "I could say no, but then I would be angry, and deprived. If I say yes, I am just angry."

I've been here too many times before to get too hopeful that this is the beginning of the end of the A.

So, it sounds loke you know some things???

Dropping off some more application forms. Hopefully one of these will produce the job I want

Slow, and steady. I know you hate to be the one that always makes it work, I know that, but remember why you do it. It is as much for you, as it is for anyone. You are that good, and you know it. When you have the ability, it is required of you to use it. God always seems to work that way.

Are you going to sluff the bonfire again this year?
I can't believe it (says SS with a big teasing grin) Prompt cerri to do it again, just for Sue, and she may not even go. (SS laughs out loud, and thinks, "I hope she doesn't hit me with her purse."

Hey, if you are tired, what are you going to do about it? Where does H want to go?

Please don't be mad at me for teasing you so much. It's about time, I say.

SS

He wants to go on a cruise. I let him know I was very interested. We looked some up last night.

More hopeful news. WH bought a timeshare wither years ago, before we got married. I knew he bought the timeshare, I didn't know he bought it with her. When I found out after we were married that he bought it with her, I told him I wanted him to sell to her, or him buy her out. I did not want them owning this together. Well, nothing happened. Yesterday, he told me, he was thinking of giving it up and us buying one and asked me if I would help he watch for one come up for sale that we could afford. Of course I agreed to this one. Anything to get them seperated from this arrangement suites me just fine.

Going back to bed

Oh buy the way, I smile alot, even when life looks bleak. I try to keep the situation from controlling me.

So, tell us about the cruise !!!

You sounded better in the last post, but tired.

I keep expecting to hear you got a job working half the hours, and paying double. So ???

SS

Oh, and tell us about the cruise - Did I say that already?

I don't think the cruise will happen, just like everything with him. All talk and no action.

Besides, we had D-day number 2.

I'm not sure where things stand right now or what I want.

Sue, I'm so sorry to hear this! I know you don't like your decisions picked apart on here so I don't know how much you'll post about it. Just know there are many here who care about you and have your happiness and best interest at heart.

{{{Sue}}}

Hi Sue,
You already know that I come and tease you so you will know that we care, and that we are thinking about you. I know it won't cure anyting, but I do want you to understand........we really do care.

I worry about you a lot, and I pray for you a lot, but I think I understand why you have been distant lately.

As has been said, we offer support - we hope it helps.

Hugs - and may you find rest tonight.

SS

Sue
My very dear friend you know I am here for you.I support YOU no matter what.I understand why you have done everything that you have done.All I wish for you is happiness true happiness.

There are few really good things in life one of the best is a true friend and people who care,you have both in me and all of us here,next is chocolate and I will send you some if you want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I promised I wouldn't offer any advice to you Sue unless you asked me....and I still promise to do that. But I hope you won't mind if I just stop by and scream AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!

I'm so truly sorry this has happened sweetie. Let me know if you're every ready for a lynching...I think I know a posse I could gather up...SAB, SS, Ginger...you IN?

IM IN!!!!!!!!!!

I'm in. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

SS

Right now I am trying to concentrate on the positives in my life. I just had an interview for a differetn position. I will hear about it sometime next week. I hope that they called to get names for references from my current job is a positive sign that they are seriously considering me. I was told I will hear next week on the job.

I've started looking around for an apartment for me and the kids to move to. I'm going to wait a little bit. I'm not going to wait too long. If I get this job, maybe I can afford to keep the house myself.

I've decided once I hear about this job, and then I can decide if where the kids and I will live, at that point, I will tell him to leave if he does not end the affair and I want proof that the affair is over. I have also decided if he says it is over and does not provide proof, I will send her a copy of my marriage certificate along with a letter telling her I know, and I confronted WH and he told me that he wants the marriage to work. I will not do this in secrecy. I will tell WH, that since he could not provide proof, then I will do what I have to do to ensure that she is told the truth. I will also tell him, that if I only suspect an affair we are finished. I don't need proof any more, suspicion is all it will take at this point to totally destroy it all.

WH, discovered that I knew the affair never ended, he told me we were finished, and he tried, but since I did not trust him, we are finished. I told him he did not try, because if he did, he would have ended it. I told him that he was not 100% committed to making this marriage work because he was seeing her. Now, he talks of us selling the house and buying a house 45 minutes north/east of where we live now, and it puts him closer to where she lives. Like I will agree to that one, (when pigs fly). The house is also about 100,000 more than the house we currently own, so I dont' know how he thinks we can afford that. I guess we are winning the lotto or something.

I'm thinking of giving him my wedding ring back. At this point, that ring has no meaning. I have not worn it in months. I don't think he has even noticed.

Thanks for being there everyone, and the lynching sounds good to me.

I can't believe that he thinks everything is okay.

It is time for me to move foward for me. I'm just going to wait before looking at aparments until I hear on this job. Who knows, maybe I cannot afford the house even with this job.

So good to see an update from you.

I know how very hard this is.But if there is one thing I have always admired in you it is your strength.
You can do this.It is not fair that you are being treated this way.

Best of luck w/the new job.Is it at a hospital or the same place you work now??

Please keep us updated,we all care so much for you Sue.
You can call me anytime you know that.

I think Ginger said it better than I could -

Lots of times I wish I had better words to say things.

There's no way to describe the unfairness of all of this. No way to describe your hurt - how hard it is to continue every day while stuff continues to happen.

Ginger is right about you being strong, but I wish there were days where you didn't have to be.

Wish I had the words - don't know how to say my feelings.

Support and strength from miles away............

SS

The job is in a hospital, it is a day/evening position. The manager of the unit said mostly days. My sisters said they would do their best to help. I'm sure I can get my MIL to help in the early afternoons before she leaves for work. I will have to talk to her about it.

I want to talk to him in person, as of late, we hardly cross paths, and when we do, I'm usually sleeping. Besides, everyone here has some sort of cold type virus except for one of my kids. This is making everyone very tired.

I'm hoping this job will pay enough that I can keep the house myself. If not, then I will have to do what I have to do and move the kids to an apartment if he refuses to end the affair to my satisfaction.

You can do this.Look at me.
If I can live on my own anyone can.

You may be luckier than me and you moving may be the thing that changes him.

Hi,

Been way too busy, I have not been out here much.

A letter to my WH is in process of being written. I thougth about telling him personally, and decided I wanted to give him a letter. He cannot argue or lie to a letter.

I thought about you this morning, and was going to post to you today anyway, no matter what.

So, what's going to be in this letter?

Where are you, besides buried with things to do?

How are all the kids?

How about the kids mom? How is she doing?

Forgive me for asking - because I know you have plenty to keep you busy, but we all want to know.

SS

The letter is going to pretty much outline where I am at in this marriage and what I expect him to do if he expects me to stay in this marriage. Right now, it is at a point where I can walk away if I have to, and I still have something in me to give to make it work.

Kids are fine, enjoying hockey, looking forward to Christmas as all kids do.

Mom, as usual does too much, so has little time for other stuff. I just worked a double shift, at the time I volunteered for it, it sounded like a good idea, the close it came to working it, I kept asking myself "what was I thinking?" I know, christmas, car repair, etc.

Right now, I have to pay bills, so gotta go

Hey Sue
It was great hearing from you,hang in there.I'm also getting to the point of being able to walk away,after all I really dont have a marrigae any way right??

Take care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Sue,
Good to hear from you, even if it is the readers digest condensed version. (hope that's not a DJ, just wanted you to know we miss you.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The letter is going to pretty much outline where I am at in this marriage and what I expect him to do if he expects me to stay in this marriage. Right now, it is at a point where I can walk away if I have to, and I still have something in me to give to make it work.

I was glad to hear you say you still have something to give. I keep wondering WHAT IN THE WORLD HE IS DOING - HE SHOULD BE HELPING !!

Kids are fine, enjoying hockey, looking forward to Christmas as all kids do.

So, do you look foreward to the games, or is it all you can do to get your self to go? That would tell us a lot.

Mom, as usual does too much, so has little time for other stuff. I just worked a double shift, at the time I volunteered for it, it sounded like a good idea, the close it came to working it, I kept asking myself "what was I thinking?" I know, christmas, car repair, etc.

Money helps, shoot, we all know we have to pay the bills, but ohhhhh for some time. Maybe I'll get you a 5 Gal bucket of "spare time" at Home Depot, I hear they they have it on a Christmas sale. Look for it in the mail.

Right now, I have to pay bills, so gotta go Well, OK, sounds like fun -

OK, I am leaning on you a little to hard, please forgive me. It's hard to read between the lines when there are only a few short lines. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope your support system is holding up well. Sounds like work is not slowing down any. You do sound like you are coping well - and mostly in control of your world. Still praying for you.

You better be having some good days too -

SS

I love going to the kids games. I missed one, because I needed to sleep before work. I didnt' get to sleep like I wanted before hand, so I had to sleep and miss the game. Sometimes decisons have to be made that are less than perfect.

Support network is still there. I have a good one right now.

WH is helping a friend with some work on his mom's house. He told me today that tomorrow, he was going to stay there the night. He also said he wanted to take one of the boys with. That helps to ease some of the questioning. Initally, my first thought, was, "are you really going to be where you say you are". When he said he was planning on taking one of the boys with, well, all questions are now gone. Especially since he plans on taking the oldest. He is a black and white kid, and is not easily swayed to follow the crowd or cover for others when something wrong.

WH has been acting weird. I cannot describe it. I think you all know what I mean, different, not different like with the Affair different, but different like he is worried or something. I cannot pinpoint it.

He has been going back and forth between here and his dads. He knows I don't like him being at his dads (or is he at his dads). His dad does not have a phone.

Well, he went to leave, and I made the comment (it was not intentional, it just slipped out), "yeah, I suppose you had better be getting home". Well, he looked at me and said "what do you mean home, this is my home".

Another time, there was the lack of sex conversation. He started it, and I commented "well, you have not been here, so I have no choice but to go without". He replied, "and you think it is different for me?" I just looked at him and kept doing what I was doing at the time. I had no reply.

Maybe I am giving him reason to be worried. I don't let it upset me anymore. I go about my life and do what makes me happy.

On the plus side, I lost 3 more pounds, for a total of 25 pounds since I started this job. The down side, it is all in the legs and backside. If I don't find time for some real exercise, I'm going to look pretty off balance with a small backside and a larger front. (just kidding). I think it all starts to proportion itself out. I have about 45 - 55 more to go. I will decide when I get to the size I want to be if I need to lose 10 more or not

[ December 05, 2004, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: SwH ]

Hi Sue,

WH has been acting weird.

So, does that supprise you? I mean, he is a guy, isn't he?

Oh, you don't mean that kind of weird.

I cannot describe it. I think you all know what I mean, different, not different like with the Affair different, but different like he is worried or something. I cannot pinpoint it.

You are from Venus, and he can't figure you out. He probably is worried. We give off signs by our body langue and posture that show our state of mind. He is probably picking up on your attitide. That one that says "I will do whatever I think is best, I don't care any more."

He has been going back and forth between here and his dads. He knows I don't like him being at his dads (or is he at his dads). His dad does not have a phone. [b/]

Why does he need to stay there?

[b] Well, he went to leave, and I made the comment (it was not intentional, it just slipped out), "yeah, I suppose you had better be getting home". Well, he looked at me and said "what do you mean home, this is my home".

Not intentional - unless Freud was right, and this sounds like one of those cases. You can't fool us.

Another time, there was the lack of sex conversation. He started it, and I commented "well, you have not been here, so I have no choice but to go without". He replied, "and you think it is different for me?" I just looked at him and kept doing what I was doing at the time. I had no reply.

Did you work anything out, or just verbally joust?

We used to do that, but now we tend to do a better job of helping each other.

Maybe I am giving him reason to be worried. I don't let it upset me anymore. I go about my life and do what makes me happy.

Tell him why - he needs to know.

On the plus side, I lost 3 more pounds, for a total of 25 pounds since I started this job. The down side, it is all in the legs and backside. If I don't find time for some real exercise, I'm going to look pretty off balance with a small backside and a larger front. (just kidding). I think it all starts to proportion itself out. I have about 45 - 55 more to go. I will decide when I get to the size I want to be if I need to lose 10 more or not

Not Fair !!

I think I am starting my holiday gain already. W keeps making stuff I really like. Agahhhhh, not fair.

You sound tired, but mostly in control.
I'll take that as a good thing. Tell me if I'm off, so I can re-read between the lines. Sometimes that fine print is hard to see.

SS

[ December 13, 2004, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

I would bump this up, but If Sue doesn't want to come that is her business. I'll just take my keyboard, and leave right now

SS

Hello everyone,
Sue called me this morning wanted me to post to all that her computer has crashed and she does not know when she will be back online.
She said to tell everyone she is doing fine and to have a very Merry Christmas.

I will add she sounded great!!!!!!!!!!

Ginger - thanks for posting for me

right now I am on a borrowed laptop. How long I will have access to it I don't know.

I will ask Ginger to update for me when I can't. Hopefully it won't be too long before I am up and running again. I think I know the problem. A friend of WH's is goig to help get it going.

Is WH still WH, I don't know, but today is our anniversary, did not do much as far as celebrating goes, WH had to coach Hockey this morning, I have to work tonight, so with that being said, we went to breakfast with the kids, WH took oldest and bought me a huge box of chocolate and the nicest card he ever bought me. I hope he meant what the card said.

The other day, I laid it on the line as far as me not trusting him and wondering if he was spending money on her, let him know how it hurt me knowing there were times I went without and could not figure out why with the income we make that we were having money problems. I told that I did not like it when I found out that the reason I worked two jobs was to support his affiar. As usual, he tried to defend himself, but he heard me out. He had never listened to me before, I think he did this time.

I honestly do not know if the affair is still ongoing, he never answered me when I told him that I wanted him to tell me that it was over. So, for that reason, I believe it is still going on. At least he is not trying to blatantly lie to me, but deceit by ommission is still deceit.

Gotta go - wil update when I can. Otherwise, I will ask Ginger to let you know I am doing fine

Oh, and other than tired from working the night shift, I do feel great

Hi Sue -
You know I was kidding, right?

Good to hear from you, I hope you have a nice Christmas - I suspect if the kids are happy, that mom will be happy. May it be that way.

SS

so far the computer is up and running, found a virus that shut the computer down.

Not much to say right now, mostly tired from working the night shift.

I'm going to bed now. I just wanted to let you i'm around

Wow...I am new to MB, but went back are read your original thread. Kudos to you! You are one heck of a strong woman. I think your H really loves you, just doesn't know how and in the long run will be to his loss should he not learn soon.

BS 47
FWH 44
DOM 013082
DD 112304
S 21
D 15

Hi Holiday and welcome

Sorry you are here, like the rest of us.

And I could not agree with you more about it, that if he does not figure it out it will be his loss.

*********edited by JustUss*********

iinfidelity,

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[ January 03, 2005, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Sue,
How are you?

And you know what I mean when I ask that.

SS

Bump

I'm doing okay.

Waiting to hear from a job I applied to. It is still a night job, I want a day job, but this will give me experience to get me a better position. Just another stepping stone for me, maybe a day position will open up and I could transfer if I get this job.

My marriage, well, it is not progressing, at least not for me. I know I am partly to blame for that. I am not trying any more. He is not giving me what I want, just playing games, I don't have time or energy to play games.

I don't know if I want to try. I am at a point where I need to evaluate what I want from this marriage. I know I have mentioned I've been here before, but each time, I decide to make it work. Right now I lean more and more towards disolving this marraige. Alot of it has to do with WH, still calls this home, but he stays at his dads(or is he at his dads?) I don't know where he is for sure. He says he will be back and this his his home, but is it? If he really wanted to be here, he would be. That is what I think.

You don't talk (let your feelings out) like you used to, I still worry.

It doesn't sound like there is much marriage left. He has to know he is tearing things down. Doesn't he?

Maybe he doesn't think you are serious?

Still praying for you, still wishing you well.

SS

Sue I feel compelled to write at this point. I've been following your story for a long time, hoping for some kind of closure, for your sake. Your last post is sadly, very similar to what you were posting over 2 years ago. I understand obligations and school had to be priorities to be realistic about leaving, and I'm not even saying, why haven't you left yet, I'm saying if you still, all this time have this heartache, it CAN'T be good for your health. Maybe I'm wrong, and others who have divorced will tell me it's normal to grieve a dying marriage long before you split, and that makes sense, but I guess I just wanted to say I'm sorry for what you've been going through for soo long. I don't pray as much as I should but next time I do, I'll remember you.

Hi SS,

I know I don't talk about my feelings much if at all. There isn't much to talk about, feelings wise. I don't give the affair much thought, I don't cry any more, or not much. An occasional cry here and there, for the most part, I live my life the way I want to, and to heck with him.

WH, states he is staying at his dads to help him out. Is he telling the truth? I dont' know. Maybe, maybe not. He keeps refering to this as home. Is it?

Does he have a clue, probably not. WH is the type that is so full of himself that he cannot fathom that someone would dump him. He is so possitive that I will stay indefinitely.

I know it looks that way to some, right now, I just deal with life as it comes and live my life my way. Sometimes I forget I am married when it comes to making decisions that I should include him in on.

Cabbage - thanks for your concern and input, heartach, not much left of that. You can only hurt someone if they let you. I don't let him hurt me any longer. I'm a great wall builder. I'm not even sure if I love him anymore. I think I do, but I cannot answer with all certainty.

WH has to have surgery, went to the dr for a pre-surgery physical, surgery is postponed, WH may have a heart blockage. More test will be done to determine if he does or not. 37 years old, and he has medical conditions normally associated with older people. I know this know no age limitations, but he still seems so young.

JUST GOT A NEW JOB OFFER. Slight increase in pay. Not a huge one, but better than what I currently make. Day hours, in a clinic setting. Sometimes I will be working long days, until early evening hours, but then I will have some short days in there.

Good for you, it's nice to have options.

I hope your H will be OK, in more ways than one.
He needs the help, perhaps more than you do. At least you are going the right direction, but we don't know about him.

We hope this job is a step in the right direction. Are you going to take it?

Now, about ice cream - what do you think?

Choclate, vanilla, or strawberry?

SS

SS
I like them all, how about neopolatine (sp?). My favorite is the one with little english toffee bits in it. (except at christmas, then I switch to the one with the peppermint bits).

Yes, I am taking the job. I also interviewed for a positions that paid even better, I don't think I got that one. Just because they were looking for more experience than I had. It was my strong office background why they interviwed me. That one pays even better, has set hours during the day.

[ February 15, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: SwH ]

My W likes the toffee bits one too, but I got her a new Hagan Daz chocolate/rasberry one for V day.

Way to go about the job. I see you making life better and better. I know there are still things to deal with, but I see you improving much of the things that troubled you before.

All the best to you, glad you talk to Ginger.

SS

I've been at my new job for about two weeks now, maybe it has been three weeks. So far I like it. The hours are not the greatest, at least it is during the day again.

Hi Sue,

I have to think working days is better for your family life.

I went back and found this -

An occasional cry here and there, for the most part, I live my life the way I want to, and to heck with him.

This does not sound like a recipe for a happy married life. Not casting blame, but thinking about it. It almost made me cry that it is coming to this. I kept thinking he would get it.

I know life is busy, but you are missed. Hope the kids are having a good year.

SS

[ March 22, 2005, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]

Here it is.

This new site is tough at first, but you'll get used to it.

SS

Hi,

I think I finally got this new site figured out. Hopefully.

Anyway, life is better in my home.

H is around more, more affectionate, loving and even understanding. (I'm trying to understand the last one) But enjoying it just the same.

Life is still chaotic.

Job is going okay. I hate mandation. It is not safe to be mandated, especially two days in a row.

Looking for a different job that does not have mandation. I know there are several hospitals and even nursing homes athat don't have mandation.

yes, it finally worked, I was finally able to reply to a post even if it was my own.

Sorry, I get excited over little things (giggle, giggle)

SwH, I haven't posted to you before, but find myself wondering what the perfect job for you would be.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but it seems, from your posts, that you're almost always looking for another job. And, you're so tired all the time, according to your posts, and you often sound so depressed.

I really feel badly for you. Could it be possible that you're redirecting what energy you have toward finding other jobs instead of actually dealing with the problems in your marriage?

LC

It sounds like you are doing well. I suspect the job you have is better than the one you had, plus school.

I suspect you won't be needing MB much any more. Wishing you all the best.

SS

To Lady Clueless,

You probably misunderstood my tiredness for depression. I AM NOT DEPRESSED. I'm tired of people assuming I am in denial because I have a different coping mechanism than others.

I am tired because my job is too demanding and I dont' think our union will be able to change it.

The last payperiod I worked over 100 hours, most people who have full time jobs have 4 days off a payperiod. I ahd three. I did not have a choice but to work when mandated, refusal to work mandation means verbal warning for the 1st refusal, written warning for the second refusal, 1 day suspension for the 3rd refusal, 5 days suspension for the 4th refusal and termination for the 5th refusal. Now, considering I get mandated at least 1x per pay period, sometimes more, how long will it be before I am terminated. So, I guess I am just too picky and want the "perfect job". Maybe I want a job that will allow me a life beside the ability to earn an income.

Maybe I want a job that offers me the opportunity to provide safe nursing care without fear of losing my license. If I make a mistake because I am tired. That mistake could cost the life of someones loved one. Of course I am too picky and looking for the "perfect Job".

My belief is, because 1/3 of my day is spent at my job, I should be albe to leave it, and leave it behind so I can be the best wife and mother I am able to do, without my job interfering in my life outside of my job. You realize that most people spend 1/3 of their day working, 1/3 sleeping and the last third is divided between housework, kids, and spouse. That last third is spread thin
As far as FWH, yes, I believe he is FWH now, he has been helping me a great deal around the house and with the kids. He is home more than ever.

I still don't know how you gals do it. My MIL is a nurse (mostly retired now) and she did it with 6 kids at home after her D.

I think you ought to keep looking until you find something more family friendly. MIL worked for a large hospital, and she did the usual all hours shifts in OB, and emergency. Finally she went to same day surgery, and normal days. It worked out well for her.

I hope it gets better for you, but you (as you always have) will probably have to make it work.

Glad your home life is better, I worried about that for so long.

Hope the kids are well.

SS

When I post, I don't know for sure where it will be, I don't belong on "Just found out" any more.

My post will be more of an informational update to those I know who generally care.

And for those who only have negative comments, judgemental decisions and for those who find it necessary to decide my emotional state based upon what they feel I should be feeling, rather than those who truly know what I am feeling, please refrain from posting. I don't want negativity on my threat. I've said it before and I will say it again.

I told FWH I don't think he should start a thread here because emotionally he is fragile, a state he is normally not in and I don't want the negative people beating up on him. I don't want those BS's to be dumping their feelings of what their spouses did to them and using him as a victim.

I know there are some very kind hearted souls on MB who would actually try to be helpful, and those would be welcome. However, how do you keep the others away before the damage can be done.

When I post, I don't know for sure where it will be, I don't belong on "Just found out" any more.

You can post where ever you want, but GQII gets more traffic. You could go to recovery, but it is not nearly as busy.

My post will be more of an informational update to those I know who generally care.

Not many still post that were regulars when you and I came to the boards.

And for those who only have negative comments, judgemental decisions and for those who find it necessary to decide my emotional state based upon what they feel I should be feeling, rather than those who truly know what I am feeling, please refrain from posting. I don't want negativity on my threat. I've said it before and I will say it again.

They usually don't read enough to get this part. And some of your friends may bounce you just for fun.

I told FWH I don't think he should start a thread here because emotionally he is fragile, a state he is normally not in and I don't want the negative people beating up on him. I don't want those BS's to be dumping their feelings of what their spouses did to them and using him as a victim.

So, has he been reading? That would be good, if he is that far along.

I know there are some very kind hearted souls on MB who would actually try to be helpful, and those would be welcome. However, how do you keep the others away before the damage can be done.

The boards are not the same........though I remember some pretty abrasive people from three years ago. There are so many now that it's hard to keep track.

I would welcome a big update from you, there is a lot I have wondered about. It looks like mostly good news though, and for that I am glad.

Still hoping the job situation improves for you.

Is H working steady now?

You have any trips planned for this year?

Ha, Ha, I haven't changed much, have I.

SS

I think GQ is a better place right now. I'm not sure if we are in recovery or not. FWH is going through a rough time right now.

Look for me there

Only bad thing about GQ2 is that threads disapear so quickly.

It's good that your H finally came clean. I know you will continue to have up's and down's, but still hope you find the happiness you are looking for.

The job stress must be high now, even though you probably have a better income. It would be tough to know they could cancel your days off with almost no notice.

I kind of think back about things you have said over the years, and how you have done. I know you struggled with smoking, weight gain, and other things common to many of us. I keep praying that you will reach your goals, and become that person you wish to be.

I know it's tough even with a spouse that helps, but it can be a nightmare when you don't get the support you need. I have so much respect for what you have done. Keep it up.

SS

Hi

Still hanging around, emotionally, we are both a wreck. Rigth now, I am trying to keep myself under control, but right now, it does not matter what I say, he takes it totally out of context.

I have an interview lined up for next tuesday and another prospect called and left a message. It would be nice if one of them payed off.

So, tell us why you are both wrecks. I can see you being one, because of the stresses of the last three years, but why him?

Hope the kids are OK.

SS

He feels guilty about the affair, cannot understand why I want to try to work through it, thinks the kids and I would be better off without him around, stuff like that

I have two interviews today. About to leave for one of them. Cross your fingers for me

Hey Sue
Have not heard from you in a while give me a call ok.
Best of luck at the interview,Ill be praying for you.

Fingers crossed,
would do the toes also, but I have never been that cordinated.

It's good that he finally feels some sorrow. I take that as a good thing. Rumor has it that if you hit him with a big enough frying pan, he'll come out of it.

SS

Update,

I got the job, it keeps me quite busy. Pay is better, hours are better. I am going to ask if I can start earlier when school starts. Babygirl is going into another dance class and I need to leave work at least a 1/2 hour earlyier than I do now. I think they will do it. My supevisor is just a kid compared to me. But he is cute in how he interacts with everyone. Does not have the attitude that I have experienced in the past with the whole, I am the manager and you are the little guys for me to torment.

I think I might stay at this job. We will see what happens after I get some time under by belt.

WH, I think he is back to being a WH. Not really sure though. It is hard to tell this time. He is talking the right talk as far as family goes, but as far as being a husband, well, wishy washy. He is actually doing the school supply shopping. He never did that before.

SS, I just came back from a weekend in Las Vegas. I really did not want to go on this trip. Originally it started out as WH and I planning a week trip for just the two of us (no place decided yet, but it was origiannly a cruise in the talking phase). Next thing Iknow he is planning a trip to Vegas with his dad, and I was going too. If I didn't like it, then I could stay home. (Oh, yeah, just what I wanted, I trip with my father-in-law).

Well, my job (the last one) approved all my days that I requested for vacation except for one day. So, how coudl I go on a trip if I am expected back for one day. Well, after this, the job I interviewed for, offered me the job, and I had to start a week and 1/2 before the planned trip.

Since, we did not yet pay for my ticket, we decided not to risk this job and I was not going to go. Then WH asked if I wanted to come out for the weekend, so I did.

It was fun, but he has been distant lately. He does all the right stuff, as far as buying me clothes I need for work, shoes at the outlet store in Vegas, taking me out to a nice dinner while were were there, he spent most of the time with me. But he is not there. I don't know where he is, even when is is with us.

He is different. When the affair was in full bloom, He was different than he is now. I cannot explain it. I don't know how to explain it. It is different. It is like he is attached and at the same time unattached.

it is weird.

Looks like I was in Vegas a day after you left.

You should say something next time.

So, he is there, but not there.

Better but still needs work.

I often wish I could help with WH's, but there is not much I can do for HIM.

What I want to know, is how is SWH.

She seems better, less stressed, but I want to hear her talk about it.

SS

SS,

I know It has been a very long time. Job is keeping me busy. Some days I don't get home until late. Like today. I was working until 8:30pm, most days I get off at a decent time. Kids hockey is keeping us busy, along with daughters dance.

How are u doing

Ginger has my e-mail address if you want to e-mail me - you can. Tell ginger to give the comcast one, I hardley check the other one.

SwH,

OMG! I seriously thought you were never going to come back! But I'm so glad to see you! I haven't posted to you in a LONG time (mainly because I don't know if I have any practical advice)....but I kept up with you. I always felt a very strong 'wish' for you to find personal happiness...something which always seemed to be confounded by your H's actions, A's, and presence.

Anyhow, just wanted to let you know that i still hope the same happiness for you. And everytime I come to the board, i look for and think of you.

Best of wishes, Sue

I am leaving for a business trip, and won't be back until mid week. I'll ask Ginger, and write to you.

Been wondering how you are.

SS

I have a question. If your daughter came up to you and told you her husband had been treating her the same way yours has, what would you say to her? I am not trying to attack you just point on the obvious. Its sad that you use your kids as an excuse to stay married to a serial cheater. They might not know about it now but eventually they will be older and figure it out for themselves and then you will have to explain to your daughter why mommy stayed and why in the same situation she shouldn't. Your smart and successful and I think you deserve better. Good luck and I hope you can stop the enabling. Oh and recent studies show that staying for the kids is not a good idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Before you start ripping into me as you have any other person that has challenged you maybe you should remember that most of us are sharing the same boat. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

SS,

Just wanted to drop a line and tell ou that all is okay. I planted a bunch of tomato plants, I'm going to give my hand at canning this year.
wichs me luck. My strawberries have a ton this year. I home they are good this year.

All is OK?

Listen sister, you had better be telling me the truth. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have so many questions.

You can guess what they are, so maybe you can just type out the answers and save me asking.

Job
Kids
H?

You know, the whole list.

Thanks though, I do wonder.

We have 30 tomato plants this year, but usually half of them don't make it. We'll see.

See ya around. Don't be gone too long.

SS

WOW 30 plants, I don't have that many. Now I'm wondering if I don't have enough. I guess there is the Farmers market

Job - I love the job, even though the hours are long. I keep wondering if it is me or if it is the job. I've noticed it is all the same people staying late and all the same ones leaving on time.

Kids

Well, Since the oldest is 12, what does that tell you. I dont' recall teen years being so up and down. One day we all hate him and the next he is happy as a clam. We changed his school, his attitude improved after that, grade - yet to be seen. He is more cooperative over homework, even though we still saw some issues that we had at his old school, such as lack of motivation, missing homework. They were very willing to work with him.

Middle child is 11, and is just starting the attitude problem.

Youngest - She just had her dance recital, she looked so pretty, and she tried very hard. No activities for any of the kids this summer except them hanging out.

H is laid off again. I'm hoping things will start improving within the next year.

I'm not sure how things are with us. Better in some ways, and in others, well, it is not where I would like it to be.

We are getting along better, and he keeps discussing family plans, and suggesting family activities, such as a couple of weeks ago we played tennis as a family (if you call what we played as tennis (it was fun)).

Other than that, I'm not sure how things are. Is H being faithful? I don't know, I have not been looking. I don't want to. What do I think? I don't believe he is. I'm thinking he does not have the ability to be faithful.

What I believe is that he is so insecure, that he always has to have someone on the side, so he will never be alone. I don't believe anything I do will make a difference and he will always have an excuse to justify his behavior. I don't believe it has anything to do with me. I came to this conclusion becuase H's mom told me that he cheated on his first wife J. After they were divorced, and I was PG with oldest, I took one of H's old shirts and was wearing it. He said to me "what are you wearing that for, J always wore that" His tone was like it was sacred or something. I almost walked out on him then. I should have. After that all I heard was J this, J that. How smart J is. When we met, I asked him why things did not work between him and J. He said it was because they married too young. She just turned 18 and he was 19. He said they grew apart. She was wrapped up in pursuing her education, and he wanted to have fun He said they both changed and did not have much in common and she wanted to go out East for school and did not want him to go with. She told him that she was going to file for divorce after she was there long enough to estabilish residency. It was in the last year or two, H's mom told me that he cheated on J.

Right now I'm at a point where I don't know if I want to try to make it work or not. I know I've been in this place in my life before. It does not help that I am very busy between work and home that I don't really think about what I want.

He still takes care of his dad, this is going on 2 years. Which I pointed out to him. I also pointed out that I believe he likes it this way. He can have it both ways, family and free and single. This is not what I want.

I know there are those who will read this and tell me I have choices. Yes I do, and I made mine. I know I can also change my mind in the future if I want to or if the situation changes.

Do you feel you are doing better than you were a year ago?

I mean besides your job?

You love your children, you like a home with a mom, and a dad.
Much has been sacrificed to keep things as they are.......... for the kids?

I don't claim to kmow what is best. However, I worry about the long term affects of you living like you are now.

Mothers can have much happiness when their children succeed. You'll be the best mom you can be. You'll love them, and help them. You'll joy in their marriages, and in the grandchildren when they come. But....... you want a full partnership, not a limited partnership. I think I know what must be in your heart.

Think on it, pray about it. Ask God to lead you. Don't give up. Never, never, never give up.

Thanks for the update. You are important, never forget that.

SS

SS/Ginger

Ginger, if you come here still, its been a while - e-mail me please

SS, yes, I know it has been awhile since I've been here.

Things are going okay, nothing new or exciting, new hockey season starting.

H, appears to be more attentive, but have doubts, I will for a long time. OW, have not idea if she is around or not. Found out H has myspace page, he says he is single, no kids, does not want kid. What a fool, like I would not find that. That was easy to find. Well, guess what, he has wife and 3 kids, 2 dogs and a cat

Sue --
I'd post a comment on his myspace about being his wife, and how could he forget his 3 kids?
Just bust him for the fun of it. Yuck.

It crossed my mind, I have not been on myspace to figure it out, unless I create a page of my own and indicate his to being my spouse

Do you know much about it?

Oh, for those who want to know how I found it,

in Myspace search the e-mail address. I could not find a way to get directly to the search I want, but I put it in the search box, it brings you to a different search and you can search by e-mail address

Me again, I know, I could edit a post but I'll just put in a new one

I probably should start another thread elsewhere, but this is where I'm known to be found by those who who remember me.

Job is going well, still put in long hours, but not as long as I use to. I love this job most of the time, but when the long days drag on, then I start getting frustrated.

Kids are doing well, boys are still in hockey, girl does dance. She wants figure skating this year. Might let her.

H works 1.5 hrs away, so he stays at his dad's and comes home on weekends, and during the week when somethign special is going on.

I know, "RED" flag, but he needed the work and it is the one that came up. We were barely paying bills, and with school starting and hockey and dance fees, we needed him to take the job. I know, we could have not put the boys in hockey, and girl in dance, but it is not an option for us. I would have not paid other stuff to pay this for them, and yes, get further behind. But they love it and it is not a sacrfice I would ask them to make

Lexxy - nice to see you again. Sorry I was being rude and did not say that.

I know I've been gone a long while. I needed a break

I understand -- I have a hockey player too.
Mine's a second year pee-wee this year.

How old are your boys?

I created a myspace just so I could spy on my 17 year old daughter and her friends. Its simple to do, and you don't really have to do anything with your page -- it just gets you in.

If he's working that far away, I'm guessing he has too much free time on his hands, hence messing around on the computer. Is he listing himself on any dating sites?

My oldest is 12 almost 13, he is a second year pee-wee - goalie

my middle one is a 1st year pee-wee, defense
How old is your pee-wee, and what position does he play?

Lexxy do you sew? I made a garment bag to resemble the jersey, for MS to keep his game jerseys in. I'm working on one for OS now. It was not that hard to do

I have not found him on any date sites yet, but I do look

I'm not sure how much free time he has, when he is at his dad's he is taking care of him, his dad's health is very poor, and he is almost blind. He says he is tired from the work and long drive. Assuming he is telling the truth, (like that makes sense, what website am I on?) He says he goes to bed early. He calls more than he use too.

Thanks for the tip on myspace I will have to do that

YES!!! Bust him! This myspace thing is outta control, I can't stand myspace.

Found out H has myspace page, he says he is single, no kids, does not want kid. What a fool, like I would not find that.

I think that would be enough for me all by it's self.

You sound (other wise) happy, and well adjusted.

You want to discuss plans?

I can't figure out what he gets out of it. Having a wife who loves him and wants to be with him makes more sense.

It's hard to be nice to him sometimes, isn't it?

SS

In general I am happy. I don't let his actions or lack of judgement or stupidity (call it what you want)bother me. Well, I guess we can say he is not the brightest bulb out there.

Plans, well, I plan to stay at my job about 1 more year, maybe more. If my time does not improve, then I will take my experience and look elsewhere. I do love the job and who I work with.

Marriage, I don't think about it much. My decision is made for my kids, and I don't want her anywhere near my kids and the only way to make sure that happens is to stay married. My choice, my decision and yes, it is one I can live with. I don't need a man to make me feel complete. Yes, a good companion would be nice, but not a requirement in life.

I'm civil to him, If you have no expectations, you cannot get hurt. So, I have no expectations from him.

Which reminds me, I should check out the guest registries and see if they have marriage plans again.

Hockey registration for this winter is coming up, dance starts for my daughter and me, I have a new sewing machine. I love it. I have to figure some stuff out on it. I'm pricing sheet rock and tile, etc to fix up the house, if H won't help me, I will figure it out myself with family and friends.

Well, gotta go, have to get kids ready for bed, morning comes early

I took 2 days off of work next week

maybe this weekend I will try to figure out myspace

I'm civil to him, If you have no expectations, you cannot get hurt. So, I have no expectations from him.

It would hurt me. I could hide it well, but it would hurt.

I was remembering.....................

You didn't use to be able to compartmentalize so well.

On another subject - What a good job you have done. Putting yourself through school, holding things together. Taking care of your kids, fixing up the house.

They used to use "shock" therapy years ago. It might work on him if you use it carefully.

Get him to take you away for a wild weekend.
Do you still do wild? (grin)

Anyway, I have a lot of respect for what you have acomplished. Did you ever hear from Ginger?

SS

Sue --
talk about small world -- mines a goalie too.
they will probably play each other this year....we live pretty close together if I remember right...

I wish wish wish I could sew. I used to make some attempts. Now I stick to decorating -- bought a new townhouse a couple years ago, so I'm doing lots of painting and finishing.

Give me your email again...maybe we could get together some time!

I thought we lived near each other, maybe they will play against each other.

If I have time, and I see his Jersey, maybe I could come up with something

It turns out that myspace SILENTLY fills in the 'single, dont want kids, dont have kids' information, without even asking you. You have to explicitly go back and dig through your profile and find that section, and update it.

Your husband may have no idea that is on his profile.

Techie, thanks for that update, I did not know that.

Lexxy - did you try to e-mail me at yahoo? I'd like to talk more hockey talk

My Goalie made the C team, H is upset because he should have been at least B. Son does not care, he justs wants to play. Okay, he is a little dissapointed, especially when the kids he played with in showcase, all thought he would be A or B. My other son has clinics and tryouts this week. (our goalie is playing for a different city, because we had too many goalies, when most areas have troubles getting kids to play goalie, we have too many.

How is it in your area?

Does your PeeWee usually make A, B or C? It does not really matter, some kids are good enough for the level they are at, and some make it d/t politics.

our daughter starts hockey tomorrow. Busy schedule, 3 all on different teams

We just finished tryouts this weekend.
My son should have made A -- but will be on B1.
VERY disappointed. He was in tears last night.

They better not say a WORD to him at school -- or I'll be calling people tonight!!!

This is the second year in a row he's gotten ripped off.
I think I've finally talked him into switching cities.
He'll finish out this year -- then come play in my city next year. Enough with the crappy politics!

I'm sorry he did not make the level he should, I know it is tough on them. Expecailly when they know they are good enough. My nephew last year did not make varsity becuase of politics. There was at least 4 other kids who tried out that was better than the kid who made it, the kid who made it got on all becuase dad was so and so with the community.

For my oldest alot of the parents on the B team are not happy that they have a C squirt on the B peewee team. (Yes you heard me C squirt is the second goalie. The C teams each have one goalie and both of them are better than the C squirt. I don't know if he will tryout for that city next year or not. He might decide to stay where we are. Keep in mind, from what I've been told, alot of kids drop out at the Bantam level, so, maybe he will get where he should next year. They get tired of the pressure to keep doing good, and it takes the fun out of the sport. My son wanted to make the B, but is okay with the C, as he puts it, it is fun on the C

Oh, did you try to e-mail me at Yahoo?

Sue,
FBOW said to tell you hello. W and I visited her late Sept. She asked about you, and wanted to know how you are. She is D'vd now, and seems to be doing well. Both her daughters are getting very high grades in school, and I was impressed with how good she is doing for for all that has happened. Anyway, she asked us to say hi, so HI !

If you want to update her, I'll pass it on.

Wishing you well, I haven't heard from Ginger lately, but she is still in school and doing well. I told her to mail you also.

Don't know much about Hocky. We don't play it here. We can play baseball year round though, and golf - but I have never tried it.

SS

SS,
Tell FBOW hi You can update her on anything you want. I spoke with Ginger not too long ago, she was quite stressed out because of school, otherwise she is doing well.

I've been very busy with work, kids, hockey, dance, cheerleading and kids school. My oldest who use to think girls were YUK!!!!!!, now thinks they are okay for a friend. So, we know what that means. My middle son, who never though girls were Yuk, is starting to like them. So, soon there will be girls around, something I am not looking forward to. WH, or H, not sure, had surgery recently on his knee.

I forgot to mention, my oldest we were having some problems at the beginning of school, nothing with bad behavior, but more along the lines of not turning in homework, he is failing in most of his classes, he does the work, does not turn it in, or he just does not care about the work. But since I told H about it, and H has made more of an effort to spend time with him, and help him with homework, he has tried some. It might have helped when we took him to counseling and H actually showed up. I was surprised too, because when I told him about it, he really did not want to go and tried to avoid the subject. We still have a ways to go, but he is trying harder.

Lexxy - well finaly one of the boys my H coached as a squirt made the B team, he was always good enough, and every year he would be on the A/B tryout and get cut to the C team. This year he finally made the B, he is a very nice boy and he deserved the B team.

I overheard some of the other parents talking, we have 2 c teams), the were saying they are so glad they are on the fun team. My son, is on the other team, and the drills, well lets put it this way, both teams were out there and the drills our coach had them do, the a couple of kids commented that he is trying to turn them into ballerina's. It will be a long year. The city we live in did not ask my H to coach, but the team our goalie is on, did ask him. (our goalie plays for a different city). Our middle son was hoping he would have been on the ohter team, most of his friends are on that team, and well, lets face it, all the fun parents are there too. I guess I will have to wait and see how this year turns out. The kids looked so bored on the ice, and kept looking at the other end where the other kids were and watching their drills, teh fun drills. I asked my son how he felt practice went and he said, I'm not a figure skater and that is what he is trying to have us do. Boy, is it fun being known as the boring team. Oh yeah. Well, fun is what you make it.

Is he still trying harder?

Is his W still trying hard?

How are things now days?

SS

Hi SS,

Is he still trying harder, maybe - he is more affectionate, says he wants to be around more. The job he has is 2 hrs away, so he stays at his dads - or so that is where he says he stays. The job should be done soon, and he says after it is done, he will be home now. He says his dad is doing well enough to be on his own, and he will just need to look in on him. We will see come the first of the year where he is living.
He says he has something special planned - He has done this so many times, that I am at a point, where it is just words, and I will ahve to see it first.

Am I still tryig hard - don't know -

Things seem to be better, kids are doing better. our Daughter had dropped out of dance and hockey, (she did not like hockey, and was tired of dance) She took on cheerleading. She says she might want to do dance again next year, but only one class. She loves the cheerleading. My oldest is playing hockey, goalie - and his grads stink, he is trying to get them better. If would be doing better if he would only turn in the work. The middle one has started to go down the same route, and I told him, that it will not be acceptable, so he can change his ways right now and get it all caught up and turned in. (even if hte teacher will not accept it late, I still want it turned in).

We are redoing the bathroom, I'm not happy with the tile we are using, but H wants to put in the soap dish and shelves that are put into the corners and there limited tiles that macth with them. Maybe I will happy with it once it is in. It just looks so plain and boring to have cream colored tiles with no color.

How are things going with you SS? and Mrs SS? I was recently in Vegas, did not have time to go to the outlet mall as we planed, I was sick most of the time there. That is okay, I needed to get away.

Do you hear from Ginger lately?

Hi Sue.
Merry Christmas !!

Is he still trying harder, maybe - he is more affectionate,
He says he has something special planned - He has done this so many times, that I am at a point, where it is just words, and I will ahve to see it first.

I see you are still not sure where the marriage stands. Not exactly anyway. I know you try not to think about it......... but I also know it comes to mind at times when you don't want it to, and takes up way too much air time.

Am I still trying hard - don't know -

Parts of you are fine. The mother part, the bread winner part, maybe the hockey mom part.

Parts of you are not fine.

I am glad you can still find things to be happy about. I hope you find more and more of them.

Things seem to be better, kids are doing better. our Daughter had dropped out of dance and hockey, (she did not like hockey, and was tired of dance) She took on cheerleading. She says she might want to do dance again next year, but only one class. She loves the cheerleading. My oldest is playing hockey, goalie - and his grads stink, he is trying to get them better. If would be doing better if he would only turn in the work. The middle one has started to go down the same route, and I told him, that it will not be acceptable, so he can change his ways right now and get it all caught up and turned in. (even if hte teacher will not accept it late, I still want it turned in).

Most of our boys had trouble in school for the same reasons. THey didn't like to do or turn in homework.

Our youngest (the twins 13) play the piano, but are not really involved in sports. They tried soccer, but only did it for two years. They seem to like the piano, and are getting fairly good by now (three years.)

It's tough raising kids by yourself. I know H is still there sometimes, but the feelings I get is that you do most of the work in the home.

I admire your ability, but I hope you have some good times, and get some rest.

We are redoing the bathroom, I'm not happy with the tile we are using, but H wants to put in the soap dish and shelves that are put into the corners and there limited tiles that macth with them. Maybe I will happy with it once it is in. It just looks so plain and boring to have cream colored tiles with no color.

I admit, I am one of the plain and boring husbands. I like off white paint, no wall paper, plain tile, and drab carpet that doesn't show the dirt. What can I say? (grin)
I can't believe you started on it without following the POJA. (Another grin)

How are things going with you SS? and Mrs SS? I was recently in Vegas, did not have time to go to the outlet mall as we planed, I was sick most of the time there. That is okay, I needed to get away.

Was this with H?
Details, we want details !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Things are pretty good at our house. We struggle with work, like many people, but we are happy.

Being in love makes up for a lot of things. We used to joke when we first got married that "we could live on love."
I know it's not entirely true, but it sure helps.

If I had known you were going to Vegas, I would have put you in touch with FBOW. Perhaps you could have visited with her. W and I were there in Sept, and we ate dinner with her.
(We only live two hours away.)

Do you hear from Ginger lately?

Last mail from her was short - It's been a while. I know she is busy with work, school, and family. Some of her children are close, and she spends a lot of time with the grand kids too.

I hope you have a good Holiday season.

SS

I cannot believe my last post was in December - wow, where did time go.

Ginger - talked to her a couple of times, but she is busy. Next time, I will try to give you advance notice when I hit Vegas.

If we did POJA on redecorating decision, we would not make any progress. I don't like wall paper either, but tile should have some color, and design.

H just recently said to me, that he did not know I did not like our house. I told him before we bought it that I didn't like it and gave him my reasons why. I reminded him of it. But I gave in because he said he was not going to look at any other houses.

It has always been about what he wanted. He just did not show that side until after we got married. As long as he make the decisions and I go along with it, everything is fine. (or is it?).

Anyways, enough about dreary down stuff. Rehashing this does no good.

Hockey is done, baseball and soccer are starting up. I'm trying to decide if I should apply for a different job. The hours, well, not the greatest. One week I get off early, the next week I get off later, and one Saturday every 6 weeks. My concern is the nights I get of at 8:30, would H be there for the kids or would his stuff come first? I really don't expect that he would make the sacrifice and give up his activities.
After all, I should be grateful that he is playing ball 3 nights per week instead of 5.

I'd talk more aobut good stuff but the boys are fighting so I have to go - there wer supposed ot be in bed 1 1/2 hrs ago and are not listening.

It sounds like you like being a mom. I know it's work, but there is a lot of satisfaction there too - I hope you feel it often.

What do you dream about mostly these days?
I mean when you think about your future, what do you wish for?

Also, how is the little princess?

SS