For those that have seen my posts the last 3 weeks you have seen that I started out in complete shock that my husband could ever cheat on me, to trying to go down the path of plan A.

That's what I've been doing, although now when I look back it all looks like a blur. I've been doing okay on the plan A, I have refrained from angry outbursts, LB'ers etc, and have been doing my best to meet EN's that I saw I was failing in before D-day.

Something happened though in the last two days. I find myself more and more doing those things for myself, and not to save the marriage. When he comes home at night he looks like a stranger to me, one that I don't particularly like, and I find myself questioning why I've been trying so hard. What is it in him that is worthy of the pain I've endured? Was our marriage really worth the fight? Worth the pain his indifference and "moving on" with his OW have caused me? We have no children, I'm still relatively young and attractive, why is my marriage to him worth this?

For the last two weeks he has shown no wavering in his decision to want to end our marriage, he has shown me no kindness, not even enough consideration to keep the few promises he's made me since all this started, he comes home with a look of smugness in his eyes, as if to say "I've found someone better, you're not and never were good enough for me, and our marriage meant nothing to me". And I find myself in a place that a week ago never seemed to be possible, I see that look in his eye and think to myself "you and your OW certainly do deserve each other, and I deserve better".

Something broke on Monday, almost the entire day I cried, and I remember wandering the house just looking for a way to end it, make it all go away, I simply wanted to just die. And then Tuesday, and today...I don't feel much of anything about our marriage or about him. Occasionally a tiny pinprick of pain will get through, but overall I find myself thinking of my own future, and I find myself looking back over the years of our marriage seeing it in a light I haven't seen before. Perhaps I'm "rewriting" our history as well, or maybe I'm seeing it with a clarity I haven't had before.

I don't know if what I'm feeling right now is "normal". I guess that's what frightens me, I know that deep down I still have hope, I know that deep down I still love him. But I feel like my feet are nailed to the floor, taking a step in any direction will cause the pain to flood back in. Making real plans to leave, doing anything to really try to keep our marriage together, opening up to him at all, will cause that wall to come tumbling down, and I will feel all that pain again for nothing, because right now he doesn't want our marriage. At the same time though, I know that the longer this goes on, the more detached I feel, the less inclined I'll be to give him and our marriage another chance if he changes his mind in the future.

I just don't really know what to make of this shift that's happened in me, I've been reading posts from others a lot, as well as information on this website and others as well, but I just haven't seen anything anywhere that the pain would just stop suddenly.

Sio,

I hear the pain you're going through....where you are right now is looking alot to me....like it's time to move to Plan B. If you can do a Plan A a bit longer I'd like you to. In line with that....a trip to the doctor is in order. If you aren't on anti-depressants...please consider that course...Dr. Harley recommends it for folks in Plan A or B. If it is stil impossible and you are too depressed and the meds don't help...you may have to move to no contact to protect what is left of your love for you husband (Plan B) Will he move out of the house if you ask him to? Take a deep breath chere...you aren't alone....though I know you must feel that way. If you need more help, email me: starfish4729@hotmail.com....and maybe we can hook up on IM or something. This is a tough time....I'm so sorry you're hurting.

Agree with star*fish.

I agree with Starfish. It's about time for PlB. And I think a trip to the doctor for some anti-d's is definitely in order. I felt almost exactly as you do once, and the pain doesn't go away quickly. Remember, your H has committed one of the worst acts of betrayel one person can to another. It's tough to assimilate. Try Pla for a few more days if you can, then write up a good PlB letter and ask him to leave if possible. You shouldn't be the one to leave. Remember though, we're all amatuers so seeking some pro advice is definitely worth while. Try seeking out Cerri here on this board. If she's not too busy, she's a great help, not to mention she does this for a living. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MTD

Sio,

Cerri will be on the board on and off dealing with some health issues. She has asked me to mentor for her site, so I do have a pretty good idea of where I think she will fall on this one. I hope you have made a trip to the doctor's and just wanted you to know I am thinking of you. Please check in okay?

Sio
We share similar experiences, age, and suffering. The emptiness and lack of feeling for H is real. I feel next to nothing for WW and have been to the lawyer. Coming away from the lawyer renewed my motivation to empty and improve myself in Plan A for the M. There is NO easy way out of this mess (including divorce), and I want to have NO regrets if it has to end.

Continue to work on yourself and read everything you can. I'm on anti-d and getting IC and they both help to smooth out the ride and to address the issues in myself that contributed to this situation. It is hard work looking at yourself and deciding (with love for yourself) what needs to change. Everyone here understands what you are going through.

Read, pray, and listen. Best of luck.

Thank you all for the responses, and I appologize for not posting on it the last couple days.

I'm doing okay, the weird little wall (or mental scab as a friend described it) has done well in keeping me focused, and I'm really actually feeling fine, it's like I was on the rollarcoaster and I fell off if that makes any sense.

I agree wholeheartedly that Plan B is my best option for any hope in saving the marriage right now, unfortunately it all comes down to money. I know my husband won't leave, he feels this is his home and that I'm the one that should leave, and he is already making little lists and such in his head of how to get my stuff and me and my cats to CA to stay with my parents, we're living in TX right now. I'm also still looking for a job, and unfortunately there is really no other course I can take to get everything I need to get done without having a job for a couple months at least. We've both allowed it to happen, but I'm entirely dependant on my husband. My name isn't on the checking account, or the car or anything else. I also don't have a driver's license (mine expired from out of state, and we've talked about going and getting it renewed several times but even before this happened, there was always something that came up) and I don't have contact lenses/glasses (which he has said over and over he'll take me to go get but when the day comes to go get them something else is more important). Obviously, I am certainly to blame for not pushing harder to get these things done, particularly when things were okay between us, but there just always seemed to be something "more important".

Anyway, I'm mortified about the situation, but I felt I had to bring all that up. I am addressing those issues, and he promised me last night he would take me this weekend to get contacts, and next week to get my driver's license. It's just a matter of will he actually keep that promise.

I know all of this sounds probably pretty pathetic lol. I really am okay though, and the place I'm moving to in CA is a place I used to live when I was a child, I absolutely loved it there (the mojave desert), when I think about it long enough I can actually smell the air. And I have already decided that one of the conditions in my Plan B letter will be that if he wants to try to save our marriage down the road he can move out there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Anyway thank you all and a big *hug* to all of you, I don't think I would have survived all this without the people on this board.

Sio,

Okay sweetie.....I know you feel like financially you are screwed....but let's just talk about the law here okay? Because inspite of the fact that your husband is the sole earner...and you have no job, license, or name on the checking account (yikes! remind me to scold you later!) First I need some information to do a search for you in the state of Texas (which I live in by the way). How long have you been married? Do you own your house? How much education do you have? How much debt do you have? When was the last time you were in the work force? You may feel as though you have no money.....but I assure you....you do. If for instance you own your home....Texas is a community property state....what ever assets he has....HALF of them belong to you. His 401 K, the house, the car, the bank account, the pension and profit sharing. If he wants you out of the home (and frankly, I wouldn't leave my home) then he can put it up for sale and give you half of the equitty. Likewise for the car and all the other assets. If you've been married ten years and need schooling to get into the work force....then he will have to give you spousal support. My point is that you are NOT penniless.....he just wants you to think you are. So if this is too difficult to talk about here....please email me and we'll hammer out your options. But don't you DARE start packing your bags chere. If he wants somebody else so badly.....for pete's sake....let HIM leave!!!! If you do it for him.....you are making having an affair and leaving YOU really really easy!!!

There is somewhere I can look up this stuff? I figured that I would have to call a lawyer (which brings up the money/car issue hehe).

Anyway, to answer your questions. We've been married 5 years (as a matter of fact halloween was our anniversary <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). We rent an apartment. There are no 401k's, or savings accounts or any such thing. Basically just what's in the checking account. I have a tiny bit of college, and that's about it.

I don't want to take him to the cleaners by any means, and I won't ask him for any significant financial help, just the little things that I will absolutely have to have in order to land on my feet. As far as me not leaving, I think I want to, I'm from CA, and Texas just isn't home, and this is his hometown, so definitely not a place I want to stay.

I don't know, the simple fact is I really can't do a whole lot until he is willing to help me with a few of those things, I know he wouldn't try to force me out, but at the same time it seems if he wants me to leave he'd do everything in his power to help me get the things done in order to leave. He's so caught up in his pathetic little fog though he doesn't seem to get that, and seems to think I'm just stalling.

Also, right now with the fires going on in Ca, I really can't leave (my parents are kind of close, and some relatives are staying with them that had to be evacuated), and my mom is still recovering from surgery (still haven't even told her yet about what's going on).

Anyway thanks Star*Fish (and everyone else), and everyone else for that matter. I don't want to be a nuisance to you, but if you could direct me or give me a link to where I can find some of that information I'd be very grateful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 01, 2003, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: Sio ]</small>

Sio,

First IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

I have a friend in TX who's wife is still fighting a custidy battle w/ her ex so I guess I have a soft spot for this.

Hoping that Star*fish has been able to help you out, Anyway the letter of the law is found here:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/fatoc.html

Thanks jgnc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How have things been going with you? Still in MCing and everything?

Hi Sio,

I don't have anything useful to offer except that I'm still thinking of you and I'm on your side.

Hang on in there!

*hugs* Lovesaved thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been kinda taking a break from the boards (and even thoughts of the marriage hehe) the last few days. I'm doing MUCH better though. Still plowing through Plan A while I'm here, and feeling better emotionally now that a little anger and resentment have started to seep through (I know that sounds weird, but it seems to be working). I don't feel that weird detachment anymore, I think like my friend said it was just some sort of emotional scab /shrug.

Hi Sio,

Things are as best as they could be. Thanks for asking. Been making some small progress. I have to keep on reminding myself to not expect a miracle. The next MC session is next week.

Been on this rollercoaster since probably a year before D-Day. At least I think its not getting any worse.

Hello Sio - I'm sorry for your pain and hurting. I wish I had some kind of advice to offer.
I was wondering if I could ask you a favor .. I wanted to ask you a question but not on here could you send me an email.. My email addy is Lost_Confussed@hotmail.com

email is sent, feel free to ask anything you need to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Still,with you. Give us an update?! Hugs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Up until tonight things had pretty much been just the same. Hadn't had anything new to post about it up till now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Anyway, a few weeks ago I sent out a letter to his supervisor at work (and also to his OW). I never heard anything about them, after awhile I kind of figured they either got lost in the mail or I had the wrong address, and by that time I was pretty much already in the emotional detachment or whatever it is that's been going on with me, so I didn't persue it.

Finally tonight I guess my little emotional wall broke. He has been getting more and more distant and unkind for the last couple weeks, and I just asked him why he was hurting me like this, why couldn't he have just said he wanted out of the marriage, but why did he have to behave the way he has been. And he brought up the letters...

Apparently they got there right on schedule. The problem is, the person I mistook to be a compassionate person, is in fact a malicious gossip, and instead of treating the matter delicately, passed the letter around the office as some sort of joke. His exact words to my husband about it were "and this has what to do with me?". This is a person in the past my husband has described as a deeply religious person, and he helped my husband a great deal when he had a car accident earlier this year. My husband also nearly lost his job because of this, the only reason he didn't was because they really need him right now. But he didn't tell me any of this until tonight.

He said he had been waiting to see if I would say anything about them, and by this point I had pretty much forgotten about them, so all I have had to go on since they hit was that my husband was being more and more cruel about flaunting his affair and wanting a divorce in my face.

We actually had a good conversation tonight though. He was and still is somewhat angry about the letters. I don't blame him for that, I would have never sent them if I knew they were going to be turned into an office joke at his (and my) expense. I have no idea what is going on in his head, but he seems so confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I mentioned to him that he might want to get counseling, and he said he's been thinking about that some lately. He also mentioned he always finds a way to ruin any good thing that comes into his life, I don't know if he was saying that about us, but he has some deep issues.

He also finally talked some about his OW. All this time I had her pictured is this really great person, and that they were having some great romance. As it turns out she has 4 children by 4 different men. Apparently she has no problem at all with having strange men just come through her life and her children's lives. And, according to him, when they are together they usually go hang out at walmart (!!!!). And he mentioned when she got the letter she was going to call me. When I asked him if she was going to call out of malice or just to talk he couldn't answer. Sounds like she's a real winner. Anyway, I don't know if all this makes me feel a little better (knowing she's not better then me and from the the sound of it is very likely far worse then I am) or just completely sad...he wants to leave me for a woman with 4 children with 4 different fathers that he hangs out at walmart with.

I think I'm leaning more towards completely sad. Simply because I've known MANY women like her,looking for a new "Daddy" for their kids for awhile till she gets sick of him, maybe has a new kid with that guy (yay child support) and then cheats on him and leaves him for someone else. I'm sorry to generalize, and when I say "women like this" I mean a woman that will sleep with any guy, doesn't bother to use birth control, reels him in usually with an "accidental" pregnancy, and then finds someone new (usually while he's still there) and then leaves the first guy after she gets child support and empties his bank account. I've seen this happen to several male friends in the past and it just makes my stomach churn to think my husband is heading that way.

I know I can't do anything to stop him from going down this path. I just can't believe he's throwing his marriage away, but also, more importantly, possibly his future as well, for a woman that I just can't see as anything but a morally bankrupt gold digger. I think he sees that too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but he's so caught up in his affair at this point (I guess walmart has some sort of aphrodisiac quality) that he just can't seem to stop himself.

In any case though, after our talk, he was much nicer. He also offered to rent a car and drive me out to CA. I wish so much he would just give us a chance, but he still is adamant about wanting to divorce and move on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I just don't really understand it, when we're just being ourselves, not talking about the marriage, his affair etc, we get along soooo great. We talk and laugh and joke, it just all seems so stupid and pointless. Anyway, I am droning on here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I will be here another month or so I think, so we'll see how things go.

SIO -

OK now I know you know I don't have to say this .. and trust me I'm not very good at following this advice and WMWB and others pull out there 2x4's all the time especially after this weekend.. BUT remember your not supposed to listen to most of what they say .. It is fog remember.

What your Husband tells you might not be the truth .. About him almost loosing his job ect ect .. so what if it did go around the office .. I know this is not what you wanted but it probably did have the effect you were looking for. The A is out in the open and your WS is upest because people know about it.

My WS is going to ne very cross with me in the next week.. After the weekend I had I'm not being vindictive but I'm not going to refrain from doing what is in the best interest of my children and myself.

Heya J.A.N <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> how are you holding up? I hope that whatever you're planning on works out okay for you.

You're right about fog talk. My husband right now is just a large walking mass of confusion. I am sorry about the letters, not that I wrote them and sent them, but that the person I trusted to do the right thing really failed very badly. When I explained that to him, and told him why I wrote those letters and sent them, he seemed to melt a little bit and opened up to me more then he has since all this started. Believe me, last night was a good night, just emotionally taxing. I'm just amazed that he was able to refrain from telling me about what was going on at work for so long.

Somehow or other I went from being emotionally detached and pretty much ready to just end it, to being right back into believing that we can make it work. I guess that's a good thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . At least while I was in my detached mode I didn't do a lot of damage I don't think. Hmm, I guess just knowing more about his OW has helped. I was painting her in my mind as some sort of princess, and as it turns out that while she's extremely dangerous in the short term (her motives are fairly transparent to me), she's pretty much irrelevant in the long term. It's just a matter of how much damage she'll do before either she gets bored or he opens his eyes that worries me. Right now I'm more concerned about him possibly allowing this woman to ruin his life then worrying about the marriage. Sort of a matter of triage I suppose.

Well, I guess I was a fool for allowing myself to get my hopes up, or allowing myself to think that I might be able to at least help him from destroying his life.

Just found out a couple hours ago that I already lost, his OW is pregnant. I knew what she was, and knew that she would do this, but by the time I found out it was already to late. I knew that I was on a timer, I just had no idea that the timer was already up. He told me all the details about her (4 kids with 4 different guys) on Sunday, and he had found out last week sometime that she was already pregnant. What a fool I am. And he didn't even apologize, or act like he was sorry at all for what he's done to me or our marriage. Its done, I'm gone, and she can have him and ruin his life, and when she gets sick of him she can just expose his child to the same thing, bringing in a new guy whenever she sees someone she wants and ruin his child's life. And she can give him "visitation rights" so he can on weekends see his baby and then take half his money and assets to pay for his child's welfare (or rather just take care of herself since that's obviously all she cares about).

Since all this started I've done nothing but try to save our marriage, all during our marriage I made all kinds of sacrifices to make him happy. One of the reasons I wanted to get married in the first place was I wanted to have kids, but it was never the "right time". And then eventually it just turned into him not really wanting kids. And now, after a two month affair, he has given this woman what I've wanted for five years, a child. After he told me, in a moment of pure stupidity on my part (this man doesn't want me) I told him I'd raise the child with him if that's what he wanted. He of course doesn't want that, he would rather just send me away and allow his child to be raised by a woman that will offer it no stability or safety. I asked him what he was going to do, what he wanted to do, and he has no idea, it either hasn't even registered in his pathetic little mind that he's responsible for a baby, a new life that will call him dad, or he just doesn't care about that either.

I don't need this, I've been willing to go 110% to fix our marriage, I was willing to raise another woman's child as my own, but he just looks at me like I'm trash. I'm done.

Hi there again.

First of all I feel so sorry for your situation and all the pain you're suffering.

Seems to me that confused doesn't even begin to describe your H's state of mind. Is he still living with you and if so, why? Tell him to go and live with OW and be a father to her soon to be five children, if that's what he wants. Incidentally I think he should be the one to move out, not you.

Alternatively he could decide to give up OW and agree to work exclusively on the M. His legal obligations towards his child can be sorted out later. It seems to me that it's time for him to make a decision because you can't go on like this - it's too painful for you. You need what on this site is called Plan B and you can't do that with him in the same house.

We should be in Plan B, probably should have been a week or two ago, but unfortunately there really is no where for either of us to go right now. I'm not going to try to force him out of our home, and when the time comes I'll be much happier in CA near family and being back in a place that I loved when I was a child.

It turns out that she and her children live at her parent's house, which I suppose is the reason when I have asked him to leave he wasn't able to. He obviously can't stay there, and at this point, despite the anger in my earlier post tonight, I really don't think it would be the best thing to do right now.

I know I'm probably at risk of getting smacked with a cyber 2x4 for saying this, but I feel I need to be his friend while I'm still here. I'm hurting yes, but at the same time, his entire life is in total chaos, and right now there really is no one around here for him to talk to. You see, before tonight I "kinda" knew that our marriage was over, now I know it is pretty much written in stone. It hurt to hear that she is pregnant, but it wasn't the huge shock that you would probably expect. After hearing about her on Sunday, I knew that something like this would happen. Wasn't expecting it quite this soon but after all the disappoint of the last month, and knowing what she is, it wasn't a real shock.

In any case I feel that the only appropriate action I can take is to bow out gracefully when it's feasible for me to leave, and in the meantime be his friend when he needs to talk, and nudge him into getting counseling for the sake of that child. At this point, as far as our relationship is concerned, that child is going to need all the help he/she can get and if I can make a positive impact before I go I will at least feel I've accomplished something .

I know that I am probably being rediculous, but when I'm in CA I have plans to take care of me, and will put myself first when I get out there and get my own life in a better state. There is simply to much at stake now to worry about myself though while I'm still here. That woman has given every indication she is a bad mother and bad person.

When he was still wavering in whether or not he wanted to try to save the marriage, she took it upon herself to manipulate the situation by leaving hickies on his neck, telling me that she was sleeping with my husband. She has allowed a married man to be a part of her children's lives, exposing them to a man that is clearly lacking in morality, integrity and honesty. And she spends most of her free time with my husband (at wal mart no less). In the past month they have stayed out till nearly 10pm every night, very often much later, leaving her children in her parent's care. In other words, except on Sunday afternoons and evenings, she has spent very little time with her children for at least the past month.

I realize that there is very little I can do to sway the situation over the next 1 1/2 months. But at the least I can support him while he works through the chaos he's dealing with, and hopefully drive home the fact that he needs counseling, and that he needs to open his eyes that he is going to have to be a parent.

I truly hope that I am wrong about this woman for my husband's sake and for that child's sake. We have no children and I feel it would be wrong to push to save our marriage when there is a child that will need him to be a father. I realize this is a mess he's gotten himself into, but at the same time I really can't put myself or our marriage before a child. I also can't really turn my back on him right now when he's dealing with all this.

SIO - ummm just to restate Plan B = what?

NO CONTACT ..LOL remember that when you are lying in the sun and sipping a drink <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .. DO NOT CALL HIM OR LET HIM CALL YOU... unless he wants to recommit to your marriage and have no contact with OW and even then have him call you mom first. - hugs to you - JMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: J.A.N ]</small>

*nods at J.A.N* Yeah, no contact I know. And put that 2x4 away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I read back over my last post and scratched my head wondering why I would think letting him continue to use me as a shoulder to cry on when I leave would do any good. Hmm, guess I'm feeling a little cynical about him right now but the last couple days I've been thinking a lot more of the situation he's put me in.

1. He cheated on me

2. He got another woman pregnant

3. He's aware of the fact that when I get to CA I'm going to be financially dependant on my parents until I can find a job, and given that I have no job skills (thanks him telling me for the last 5 years he likes me being at home) it's going to be really rough to land on my feet. And despite all that, he is still pushing really hard to make me leave here sooner then planned even though there are a ton of businesses around here within walking distance that if I stayed a few months I could at least afford to get a cheapo car when I get there, which would give me more options as far as finding a job when I get there.

4. The only help he's offered is getting me contact lenses and a drivers license, and acted very noble about it. Things he should have helped me with 3 1/2 years ago, and fails to realize they aren't things I could just do on my own (can't get a DL without being able to see, can't get a job without some form of ID, can't get contacts without money) (and btw I have both now so at least that's taken care of).

5. Everything has taken place in the course of a little over a month, and yet he and the OW are frustrated that I'm taking to long to move on with my life.

As it stands right now there is a very good possibility that the OW is going to miscarry or already has (she still hasn't gone to a doctor yet). There is another possibility as well, maybe she's just faking it. Either the pregnancy as a whole or the problems she's having. I know that's a bit of a stretch but at this point I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was doing that just to put pressure on him to force me out.

In any case I will do Plan B properly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . As a matter of fact I will be very happy to exorcise the Jerry Springer-esqe issues in my life. I will write a very nice PB letter for him and get on with my life. I realize now that while he very likely will try to contact me, he would be doing it out of selfishness. He still wants to keep pieces of me in his life, hopefully though, by removing myself from him completely he will get it through his rather thick skull that he misses me and might possibly rethink what he's doing.

2x4 ....? who me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> holding it behind my back trying to hide it.. hmmmm hmmmm hmmmm LOL

J.A.N drops the 2x4 and starts clapping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Good for you !

PS: again what does Plan B = no contact ( see no yelling this time )

<small>[ November 20, 2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: J.A.N ]</small>

oops - posted it twice ..

<small>[ November 20, 2003, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: J.A.N ]</small>

Sio,

Perhaps it is not my place to comment but I have seen this in a number of your posts and I have to say something.

Several of your H's actions seem to be about control.

He chooses to keep you at home, with no license, no access to family money and without being able to literally see clearly for 3 1/2 years?! Basically without any means to ever do something for yourself.

To me it seems that he has wanted you to be solely dependent on him. To me it reeks of control and possibly abuse. I'm sure somebody else can comment on this better than I can.

Again now he wants you out earlier and it just so happens that it would hinder your ability to take care of yourself? His actions make you dependent on someone else rather than yourself? Again CONTROL!!!

Sio, pls, Plan B, NO contact. Use the time to make yourself as strong as possible.

Cerri Star*fish or anyone else able to comment on this?

Lots of prayers in your direction.

jgnc, I welcome your insights and honestly that is something (regarding the control) that my family members have pointed out as well. I think though it was more a matter of laziness and apathy (of which we were both guilty before the affair) and not so much a need for power or worse a form of abuse. I understand though that sometimes a person in my particular position might make excuses or rationalize his or her partner's behavior, so I will keep an eye both his and my behavior and give it a lot more thought.

Tonight has been an interesting night though. I've known for the last week or so that the fog was lifting, he has been acting more and more like his old self and he broke down in tears apologizing for everything he has done. He doesn't want me to leave on Wed now. He hasn't told her yet about NC, but tomorrow he is meeting a friend after work to see about a different job (he and OW work at the same place). He knows NC is required, he is concerned more though about possibly losing his job if she reacts badly to the situation, and she may try to sabotage him as far as work goes. He has also mentioned returning to the Army.

I don't doubt the sincerity of what he has said tonight, I do have reservations that he will feel the same way tomorrow. He is also concerned about the prospect of leaving me here alone if he should return to the Army (he'll have to go a few weeks before I can join him). That concern is based on OW's irrational behavior and earlier threats against me.

Then finally there is the problem with the pregnancy. One of his supervisors who has known OW for a long time doubts she's even really pregnant. There is also the possibility of her miscarrying or has already miscarried (strangely though, she still hasn't filed the paperwork for insurance, I would think if you were pregnant you would do that as quickly as possible, especially if you were worrying about a possible miscarriage), and then finally there is a chance that the child is not even his. But, the fact remains in 9 months there might be a child of his in the world. This might be the only child he will ever be able to have (he has a medical condition that may make it extremely unlikely of ever having another), and I know he would want to be a part of that child's life. NC with OC won't really be an option for him. The real problem is, OW hates me, if I stay I have no doubt she will use that child as a weapon. She will also be pretty much a part of our lives forever.

I really have no idea what to do. OW is playing mind games with my husband, she has done everything in her power to manipulate the situation (and did a fine job of pushing him back to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). I'm supposed to leave on Wed, and I still may end up going. I'm just not sure how we can (or if we should) make any plans for recovery while we're still unsure if there is even a pregnancy.

It's just very frustrating because I feel like she is playing with us. I found out tonight that her fourth child is the result of an affair, that man died in a car accident, and apparently his wife knew nothing of the affair or OC, OW barged into her life while she was grieving the lose of her husband and demanded social security benefits. This woman seems purely heartless, and I have no doubt she will do everything in her power to cause us as much damage as she can, and with a child she will have a LOT of power. The sad fact is, in the long run, my husband, myself and OC will probably be much better off if I'm no longer in the picture. It sickens me that a person like that has so much power over our lives, but if she does have his baby she will have us pretty much under her thumb.

I really hope someone will read this and be able to give some sound advice on what my husband and I should do. If there is no OC we will be okay I think, recovery will be hard and there are of course no guarantees but at least it will be on our terms. If OW is in fact pregnant with his child though, I have no idea what to do other then just leave which is exactly what I don't want to do.

Sio,

I never received an email from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So sorry I didn't realize sooner that you had sent one. I haven't been on the board as much lately either. It sounds as though things have changed dramatically since we last talked. Sio....more than ever...you need good professional help to overcome these issues. I implore you to call cerri today and make an appt. to find out what steps you should be taking. I am gratified to see that this OW is LBing left and right. You have done extremely well. I think there is also a great deal of hope that this women is not pregnant and even if she is...that the child is not necessarily your husband's. Talk to cerri before leaving for CA. I don't know if she is on the board today, but if not....email or call her with the address and phone number on this site: http://www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com/pages/1/index.htm

(((((((((((((((((sio))))))))))))))))))))))

*hugs* Star*Fish Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll see what he says tonight how he would feel about instead of spending the money we had set aside for the trip, we use it for counseling with Cerri.

The reason I never emailed you was I just felt kind of bad about it. I understand you made the offer, but I felt uncomfortable burdening you further, and I assume you probably get a great deal of email from others. I don't know if that makes any sense .

We'll see what happens tonight though, I'm a little concerned that now that he's going to backtrack from everything he said last night.

Well bleh...he did backtrack. Not in the way I was expecting though. He broke up with her yesterday, she sent him an email saying there was proof on his desk at work that she is in fact pregnant.

The problem is, this "proof" was the letter she got when she applied for medicaid. He saw one positive pregnancy test (before there was a chance of miscarriage, and nothing that a blue marker wouldn't take care of). The test she took when she was applying for medicaid came back as negative though, but they put the paperwork through anyway since she had a positive home test. She has also not filed the paperwork yet, and claims to have been having symptoms of possible miscarriage for the last 1 1/2 weeks.

So, to put it simply, and even assuming she's not lying through her teeth about everything. She had 1 positive test about 4 weeks ago. Then 3 weeks ago she had a negative test when she was filing for medicaid, but they put it through anyway just in case and gave her that letter saying she was pregnant, and the letter she received is the "proof" she gave my husband. In the past 1 1/2 weeks she has been having symptoms of miscarriage, hasn't taken another pregnancy test, and hasn't filed the paperwork yet to get the ball rolling so she can go see a doctor. Am I wrong to believe a blind monkey would see through this and know she's manipulating him?

In any case he of course had to call her about it (I don't even blame him, this is a potentially his first child for pete's sake). However, he realized after talking to her that if he goes NC with her, and she is in fact pregnant, he will have doubts and regrets the rest of his life. His feelings for me haven't changed, he doesn't want to lose me, but we both know if we have any chance he needs to immerse himself in that life and fall on his face and know for himself that she's wrong for him.

I have no doubt in my mind that his relationship with her will fail, probably soon. I think he knows that too. He said today though that he knows if there is any chance for us I need to get away from here, and I agree. For one thing, NC with her for now would be next to impossible till he secures another job, and also, because of the child, he really isn't able to completely remove himself from the situation (which I don't blame him for, in his shoes I'd feel the same way).

I know you all think that he is the one that should leave, but in all honesty if we get back together I will have to move away from here anyway, I can't stay in this town or even this state. There really isn't much here for me, and just a lot of pain if I stayed knowing he was on the other side of town with her. As odd as it sounds, I'm more hopeful then I have been since all this started. He knows what's going on, he realizes it's a chemical addiction, he knows that he and OW are incompatible, and has a great deal of concerns about the sort of person she is. He knows he loves me, and doesn't want me out of his life. I think he also knows that in the end he will want to be with me, but because of the possible child, he has to fall on his face so he won't have regrets or doubts.

Sio - Come stay with me. I live in California, in a dumpy little mobile home 6 blocks from the beach. But it is like living in paradise. You can get your drivers license here and there are lots of jobs. I think you need to take a break from H and OW. He is in a big mess and doesn't seem to realize it. A couple of months away from him will do you good, and then he will realize what he has lost.

*hugs* thanks Believer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I may take you up on that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Actually I got my license here in Tx (finally!) unfortunately I won't get the actual card for a week or two <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> so he'll have to mail it out to me.

It is DEFINITELY time for plan B, my husband is a walking trainwreck right now, I still love him, but I'm seriously starting to lose respect for him (okay I've probably lost all respect for him). It's just pathetic, (just a little story for you) when I was in high school, I got involved with a much older guy, I had it bad for him, I later found out that he was married, and I just flat out ended it with him. Cold turkey. I felt like I was going to die but even when I was 17 I knew that messing around with another woman's husband was wrong and cruel. Granted, I should have never gotten involved with someone that much older, but geez, if a 17 year old knows that's the wrong thing to do, and can just end it despite how much it hurts, what excuse does a grown man have? Or the OW?

<small>[ November 22, 2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Sio ]</small>

Sio - Come on out. I live in Oceanside, home of the United State Marine Corps. I have an extra room, soon as I get H to move his stuff out. I'm an old lady - 55, but I'm sure you would enjoy it here. There is a pool, and you can learn to surf -my kids, 18 and 22 will teach you. You can stay for a couple of months, and when H comes to his senses, you can go back to Texas with a great tan. He doesn't know what he has in you. Let him be with OW and get out of there.

Thank you Believer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I truly appreciate the offer, I think my mom would kill me though if I didn't come stay with her and my dad hehe. It's been years since I have seen them, and while she's not at all happy with the circumstances she's thrilled that I'm going to be out there soon. I'm not thrilled about the circumstances either but I'm really looking forward to being back in my home state at least for awhile.

It was actually a nice weekend. On Friday after everything happened, and we decided I needed to go after all, I asked him to promise me not to go see OW until I'm gone. He actually kept that promise this weekend. I also caught him looking up jobs in CA. It doesn't answer any of the really important questions, but at least I have slightly less doubt of his sincerity.

Sio,

I'm glad to see that your H is coming out of the fog. I am sorry that you see him backtrack. It seems that this can be a real hard time, watching a spouse waver back and forth.

About my previous post, I guess its the kind of thing that is usually begun with "I hope I'm wrong but here's what I see..." I tend to have an eye for control issues because I am predisposed to behave in the same way. It's strange how we can behave contrary to everything we believe in simply because of what we grew up with.

Good luck as you move to CA.

Thanks jgnc <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am truly looking forward to being away from here. I know what you are saying btw, about the control thing, you are right. I see it too if I really look, but for now till I get away I'm not really allowing myself to look that closely. I should probably be in a padded room hehe. I decided not to think about that though till I'm out of here and safe. I also know deep down that we may not get back together but I am not letting myself think about that yet. I also know that despite the fact that his OW is a very questionable person, he may be better off with her (?) maybe that's what he really wants.

He backtracked even more today. He spoke with one of her friends at work, who said that everyone else in the office were telling him bad things about OW as some sort of conspiracy. She claimed that while a lot of it was true, OW is trying to turn over a new leaf (must rant...she's turning over a new leaf? by sleeping with a married man? by doing nothing to confirm she's still pregnant after 4 weeks, 1 negative test, and symptoms of miscarriage for 2 weeks, and giving him the "proof" that she got simply because she filed for medicaid and that was the test that came back negative? She's becoming a better person by calling me to torment and taunt me? She's turning over a new leaf by treating him like trash for a week then when she wants him back being all sweet and nice? Or proving what a good mother she is by spending no time with her children for a month? okay done ranting *takes a deep breath*)he of course swallowed the "new leaf" thing whole.

Anyway this is my prediction. I think when he gets back from driving me to CA she will in the week after, claim she had a miscarriage. I think all of it was just a ruse to make me get out of here (he will of course stay with her because she's gone through "so much!". Then, after a few months or so, the "wants what she can't have but when she get it doesn't want it anymore" thing will kick on in her head, and she will start getting bored with him, and probably start wanting him to watch her kids when she goes out lol. Hopefully at this point his self preservation instincts will kick in.

Anyway I'm just sort of babbling here hehe. My biggest worry is that my self preservation instincts will kick in before his do, and at that point I won't want to bother with him or our marriage anymore.

Sorry to hear of the continuing backtrack.

The thing that keeps me sane is remembering that this is going to be hard, recovery is going to be hard but I made a choice to stick with this.

I don't know anything about being in Plan B but remember, the reason for it is to protect what love that you have for him still and to protect yourself from the A. That's why NC is so important. He will likely go through hell w/ OW and may try and turn to you for support then, NC is there for you to be protected from this. The question will be, what will your self preservation instincts tell you when he calls agreeing to NC and MC? and will you listen to those instincts?

Anyways, I'm much better at giving advice than taking it. Yet anther gift from my father <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I slipped into anger/depression last night after noticing an e.mail form OM in her inbox last night. His name was gone from her IM friends list so I was getting hopeful that Plan A was working. Now I don't know.

Well, I made it to CA and am in full plan B mode now. I'll post again in a few days but just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the support and help through the plan A phase. I will post more in a few days, I'm just still sort of weirded out by the trip and the newness of the seperation.

Welcome to California, ain't it nice????

Yeah it is nice to be back in CA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> haven't been here in years, and haven't been in this area of CA since I was 10, was a little worried my expectations would be a little too high but its pretty much as I remembered it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I already messed up on the Plan B <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . As predicted OW had a "miscarriage" while my husband and I were driving out here, big shocker <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . He wrote me an email when he got home (which I asked him to do just so I would know he got back safe) and he told me about all that, I ended up calling him Anyway doing okay now though. I won't break from Plan B again. Anyway we'll see how this goes.

Don't worry about breaking NC in Plan B. I did it a couple of times, but for the last 6 weeks have had NC. It gets easier and easier. Let your H wallow in the mud that he has created. Try to have some fun while you are here. Do some new things, meet some new people, and enjoy life.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How's the Sunshine? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to see you made it!