Am I in Plan A? - Marriage Builders® Forums

I posted my story in What should I do? in Just found out.
I also talkted to Steve Harley once.

I don't know where I am now.

I confronted my H last Monday. He denied it. I also talked to OW's husband and found out more info.

On Tuesday, he didn't come home for dinner and did not call me about it. He did not come home till 10:30pm, the kids were already in bed. I politely asked him to call me if he doesn't come home for dinner and to answer my calls incase of emergency. He agreed. We had a some talk, see my posting. THis morning, I consel with SH. He told me to ask H to talk to him, I did. But he did not respond.

Wed, he came home before me and cooked dinner. I thanked him for that. That night we actually had a good one, we played games together. D was very happy and siad this is so good, it is like nothing had happened.

Thursday, he called around 6pm and said that he will not come for dinner. D got very upset. The whole evening she was crancky and hard to deal with. I was not feeling well wither, with fever. So I called H and asked him to come home a little bit eraly to help. He kept saying he would come, but not till 10:30pm again, when I settle the kids in bed exsauhstly. He said he was at work(Do I believe him?)

Friday morning, I ask him to come home for dinner. he said ok and he did. I mad fish for dinner. We went shopping a little. But the air in between was just strange. He kept calling other people when shopping, not talk to me. He told me that he will have to work Saturday whole day.

Saturday morning, he dropped the kids to Saturday school, then left for work. I called him few times tried to tell him that a firends father died. But no answer untill 3pm. He told me his cell phone was out of battery. He would have to work till very late. So I took the kids to see my parents and then to the library, where I picked up some of Harley's books(Giver takers, Fall in love and Stay in love, His needs her needs,I bought SAA). In the library, I met OW's husband. He told me that there should be nothing between them. I am not convinced. He told me that she had been home for the whole week. I can't check his phone, he call at work. But D got crankier, she cried and whined. She was in depression, and is still in Zoloft. I finally called H to ask when he will come home, I had to page him. He called me from work, he even said, do you hear the noise in the computer room, he tried to prove to me that he is not with OW. But he didn't come home till 4am. Who knows. I spent a lot of time reading all those books. How I wish I knew these book long time ago, so I wouldn't have to go through all these.

Sunday, I went to Church with kids. At noon, we met friends in the restraunt, he even didn't want to sit with me. But after we went home, he went to sleep again, I didn't bother him. But D acted worse, during lunch, she was not happy. After coming home, she was crying and said mean thing. It was just so hard to deal with. I knew that she had fear, but did not know how to act. I trid to read Bible with her and calm her down. But it only last for 30 min. I got so frustrated and went to my room to cried and prayed. Finally, H woke up and I gave him a hair cut. Then I cooked dinner, he was on the phone again not talking to me at all. After dinner, D acted the same thing again. Finally, I told H to deal with her. They had a talk and finally calm her down and went to bed. I said thank you to him. Last year, we were talking about going for an international trip. Now he mentioned again. I ask him that whether he really wanted to go. He said that it is for the kids, he did not feel uncomfortable. I also asked him that whether he feel uncomfortable stay home, he said it is ok.

Today, I send him e-mail to ask him about conseling, but no answer. I assume that is a no.

I've been thinking all the time. I don't know whether I did LB. I don't know what he was thinking. I asked him to do few things and he did. He was not like this before. Did he do it because he felt guilty about the A or because I changed? Is the A still going on? One of my most concern is that are all my request too much to become demand?

Valentine is coming, should I give him a gift or not? Is that too much to show that I am eager to get him back? I want him back, but I don't want to do to much to scare him away. Any idea what is right gift?

I could not get to your other post, but I would say you should be in Plan A. Unfortunately, it sounds like H is having an A. Could it be with a different OW? I know you don't have any proof, but you can just look at your M objectively. Is this the relationship you want? Is this how you want to be treated? No, even if there is no OW. So what do you do? The first step is Plan A, but you will have to monitor yourself to see how long you can do it. This is not a time to be thinking about him, though. You need to concentrate on you. Who are you? What do you want in life? How can you improve you?
You will have to decide how long you can live with your H staying out late, etc. It is also affecting your daughter.
I went through 4 1/2 months of this pain and FWS never denied the A. But there is hope for your M if you are willing to follow this difficult path. It sounds like you are trying to meet ENs whenever you can and WS will accept them. That is good! But watch the LBs. The 180 degree list might be useful for you here.
As for Valentine's Day, just go by your instincts. FWS' 40th bday was in the middle of his A, 2 days after d-day of the PA. There was no blow-out party he was hoping for for the past 10 years, but I was able to give him a heartfelt letter. That was only because of MB and the people here that kept me on the right track.
There is a reason he married you and he may think that his love for you is buried too deep, but you can rebuild your marriage!

IBC

Thanks for your reply.

I know that I don't want to live like this forever. I want a warm family, and a loving and caring husband. I want to inprove myself to be the one he wants. But I don't know exactly what to do. Maybe I just need to be patient. I can not expect the ice to be melted overnight.

I am having this bad feeling again. I can bear with this any more. He is so cold . He didn't want to talk to me.what do I do?

He is doing it again. Just not coming home and not calling. He doesn't answer my call either. I hate this so much. I am desperate now. This is my feeling. I know that it is just my feeling. But this feeling is so terrible. It hurts a lot. Please someone help me. What did I do to make him do this to me?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
 Please someone help me. What did I do to make him do this to me? <hr /></blockquote>You don't need to do anything ... It is him the one that acting in selfishness. It is his hoice to treat you this way. Now ... sure you can't control how he treat you but you could control how you are going to response to him .

-rh-

Thanks Redhat.

How should I respond to him. I know that I can not LB. But he doesn't talk to me, doesn't reply my e-mail. How do I let him know my feeling?

I am even not sure I am in Plan A. I really don't know what to do.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
 Thanks Redhat.

How should I respond to him. I know that I can not LB. But he doesn't talk to me, doesn't reply my e-mail. How do I let him know my feeling?

I am even not sure I am in Plan A. I really don't know what to do. <hr /></blockquote>If you could afford it please contact MB to get advice and coaching. It is a lot cheaper than retainer fee.

This is my 2¢. Leave him alone !. I know BS at this point want to do everything and anything to get WS back. It is futile. It is not about you ... it is about his selfishness.

Now let me ask you questions. What did he say about you and why he did this ? Before he D-day and after D-day ?.

-rh-

This was my first post on 1/26.

I desperately need help. I read all the Q&A columes and almost everything possible in your website, I still do not find an appropriate thing to do in my situation. Please help me and give me some solid advice.

About 2 weeks ago, my husband told me that he does not love me any more and he wants a seperation. I reacted normally, shocked, depressed and angry. Then he slept in the quest room. I tried to find some help in the internet, many advice to "agree" with him unconditinaly, magic will happen. I did so, he did not say a thing. But he acted very strangely, and I found that he is having an affair with one of his friends wife. He would go out and did not come home till late night, sometimes over night. My feeling is being hurt so badly. Tell me what to do, reveal it with him and negotiate(am I pushing him away by doing this?), or wait till it to die down, then work on the relation ship? My goal is to save the marriage. Plan A is for those who admit the affair and want to come back.

We've been married 14 years with 2 children. We did have some conflict, but I don't want to split up and break the family. I am reading and learning a lot and hope to renew our marriage into a good marriage.

--------------------
lostnhurt

Since then I was on MB borad. My mood was going rollercoaster. Yesterday, i was way way down there. I took my first A-D. But I am still feeling so bad now, I can not concentrate on my work. I am teaching, I need to prepare work and face the students. Sometimes I got to the point that I had to stop teaching and went out of classroom to wipe of my tears. It is so painful. For some moment in driving, I want to crash into a big truch and end all these. But what about my kids and parents? I am already talking to SH. But I don't get much advice. I understand that I can not have everything overnight. But during this process, any input, advice or encouragement would be helpful. I feel lonely, fear, sad and hurt. At work, I have to pretend nothing happened, at home I have to pretend to be strong. But who is lending a hand to me, give me a hug, and let me cry?

lostnhurt,
Unfortunately, you are not alone. And I think that if you keep coming here you will find the support and advice very uplifting and helpful.
I know that it is tough, my W has had 4 affairs in the last 3 years, so I have been there. Hard to believe, but it does get better with time. The A-D's take time to kick in, but you should start to feel better from them soon.
I have had the horrible thoughts of hurting myself, or worse, too. Maybe we all have. But believe me, it wouldn't be worth it, especially if you have 2 children. Think about how badly the children would suffer if you were to leave them. Keep your head on straight, keep taking your A-D's, and keep posting here. We are all here for you. Redhat is quite helpful and seems to enjoy following the stories as they go along, so you have friends here that you don't even know yet.
I am not in a position right now to give you any good relationship advice, I am still trying to find some for myself, but I can give you this: If you believe, leave it in God's great and capable hands. Pray to the Lord Our God for guidance and support. Pray for Him to be with your H while he goes through this most trying time. If you do not believe, maybe it is time you found Him, he is truly a wonderful and understanding God.

Take care and God Bless,

r0uter

router,

How did you survive 3 affairs? Are you sopposed to get tougher each time. I can imagine going through this again. You are very strong.

I am a believer. Actually this event is making me to believe in GOD deeper. Deep in my heat, I know that HE is with me, giving strength and wisdom. But all these moments, when the bad feeling come like storms, I am shaken. I pray everyday, alone, with my kids, with my sister and friends. I ask for patient, ask for forgiveness, ask for him to help my H to turn to him.

Thank you for your encouragement. Everything is welcome. I need more talks, that is.

lostnhurt-

Have you read this post by amy maree?

This is a helpful analogy that follows MB principles, that I read in a book. I used it in one of my posts, and a member thought I should also post it here, to share with more people. I hope you all find it as helpful as I do.

As quoted in a book the counselor at my church recommended called "Love Life for Every Married Couple" by Ed Wheat (which even has a chapter on how to make your marriage work when you are the only one who wants it to work), I have to fly using my instrument panel. Meaning, I can't see what is going on, it is dark and stormy, and the only way I can get where I want to go is to watch my instruments (stick to my plan, read my books, make myself happy, seek guidance from God) and not concentrate on what is going on outside the airplane, because it is confusing and disorienting and will cause me to crash if I focus on it.

So all of you out there, even though what you are doing is going against every instinct you have, even though it seems like your plane is going down in flames, don't believe any of that. Watch your instruments - make your plan and stick to it - and you will be safe and sound. Definately safer than your WS right now, because they are so lost in the fog, they cannot even see their instrument panel! You will have to fly right for both of you.

Please go to your library and check out the above book. I'm sure I didn't do that great analogy justice. That is just the jist of the idea. Take care all and stay postitive and pray!

Me, again. The above is what I am trying to do. Everytime I look away from the instrument panel (for me the Lord, MB Plan B) the plane starts into a downward spiral. But bit by bit, I am getting the hang of it. It just feels so foreign to what I am used to doing.

Start in Plan A, and stick to it. It takes time, and is miserable for the BS, but it does work.

Believer,

I read many of your posting. You are a strong person. I admire youy courage. But this one about the flying is the best. I am printing it down and try to read it over and over, especially in those moments when I try to look outside the windows.

I can't tell how much I appreciate all your help from this board. I am just desperately need to talk to someone. All your responses help me so much. I am feeling better now.

lostnhurt,

A will end, not now and not yet. Meanwhile you should not talk about R or negotiate about R w/ your WH ... it is futile. How could you talk to a drunken man about giving up their bottle ?. It has comes from within.

Staying put is enabeling him.

Now one thing that you should do is try to find a solid prove that you could use. Snoop or hire someone to get the proove. You need to put it out in the open.

Read about LB ...

-rh-

I can't take credit for it - a new member, Amy Maree posted it. I just love it and have it on the wall in my kitchen.

I have been struggling lately in Plan B. I know it works, but have had an awful time staying with it. So I read the flying by the instrument thing several times a day.

Also posting here helps. I can't tell you how many times the people here have saved me from doing something stupid. It has been the only reason that I have gotten this far.

Also what helped me most is working on myself. I exercised, cleaned the house spotless, joined a women's support group, did the yard, organized, detailed the car, etc. Then I started feeling better about myself.

Believer,

I know that I need to do all these. I just had not have the strength to pull myself up for all these. Every time my H agree to do something togehter, I felt better, when he turned away, I was down again. I know that I need to dettach from it. I am working HARD on this. Some times I do get this hopeless feeling. I will get a YMCA pass and take the kid to exercise. But I don't know where I can find a local support group. Can you give me some info for where to look? Thanks.

lostnhurt - It is extremely hard at first to start doing things. I just made myself. I made a checklist - started walking 30 minutes a day, went to www.flylady.com for uplifting and encouraging ways to organize and clean, starting with just 15 minutes a day.

My support group is through church. So look around. There are women's support groups, grief recovery groups, divorce care groups, mental health groups, all kinds of them.

The funny thing is once you start making yourself do things, you will start feeling good again, and feel like doing more. Hang in there.

my Favorite Divorce Care. It has an excelent support group for people separating/divorcing/divorced.

And of course keep posting and replying in MB forum too ...

-rh-

Thank you all.

I don't know whether I should hire a PI to investigate. I had some prove,and i confronted him. He acted like so what? He denyed it. He siad it is just a friend, what is wrong with talking to a friend. But I don't know what would happen if I get more prove, presureing him to end? Will I push him away?

What it hurts me most now is that he doesn't talk to me, anything. I don't want to talk about the R. But at least something. Sometimes I hate myself for thinking about him so much.

I checked the flylady site, need to read more. It seems that my kitchen is very sparkle already. I also check on divorcecare, it is for divorce people, but I don't want a divorce. Is that helpful?

My bad feeling is coming back. Help me. I am sinking.

His attitude says it all. He is in the fog. You can do nothing to change him, except Plan A. Then work on yourself.

When you start doing things you will feel better and get stronger. So make yourself do something. I have been posting here all morning, and cleaned the house, removed my closet doors and put in a set of drawers, make some cabbage soup, and walked for half an hour.

You have to figure that H is not going to meet your needs right now. So you take care of YOU. It is necessary to get some self-esteem back so you can save yourself and your marriage.

Believer,

You are the greatest help. I will get strong. I will pray for strength. I am at work right now, in between classes. I wonder if I can get your number to talk to you. I just need to talk to someone. I talked to my sister, one of my friend. I think that I had already drained them out. But talking to yuo on this board is fine too. I hope that I don't ask too much.

lostnhurt,

It seems to me that your H is withdrawing form you. I know it hurts like hell. That is why you have to achieve some emotional distance. Right now all he cares about is himself so he will do what he pleases. He will eventually come out of it. Until then, as believer says, care for yourself, this is so so important. Give him space and meet EN's only when he lets you. Otherwise you will expose yourself to more pain as he rebuffs your attempts.

Is there a close friend or family member you can trust and lean on? I went this this alone for too long, the support of friends has been crucial to keeping myself together. Also consider an IC to deal w/ the immediate effects of his actions.

Take good care of yourself,

JGNC

Sorry Believer,

I shuld not ask for your number. Please forgive me.

My question is that I don't know whether I am in Plan A or not. That is the title of this posting. I don't know exactly what I need to do in Plan A or am I doing it.

I do all the chores as usual, I took care of him by cooking, laundry, packing his lunch, iron his clothes, etc. I took care of the kids. What else do I need to do. Not give him pressure? I don't know. Don't call him?

lostnhurt-
E-mail me at digsblues@aol.com and give me your number or I will give you mine. I have a phone plan where I can talk for 20 minutes for 99 cents.

Your anti-D's should be kicking in any day now. Mine started working on 19th day. I woke up feeling great. So hang in there.

Below is from main MB site on Plan A.

So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.

In these negotiations for total separation, the causes of the affair should be addressed. Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof.

In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.

You are in a 'coaster 'till the AD kicks in you will still feeling ups & downs. Meanwhile get any activities that make you busy ... I know a lady that hike everyday for several hours not only to shed some weight but also to get her mind off her WH. Find something that won't allows you to idle.

Divorce care group has some separated and divorcing ... it is not about the Dv itself but about the process and understanding the pain of separation and how to heal. Depending on the group itself, some might have similiar problem like you. Anyway it just another resource to check out.

-rh-

lostnhurt -
Please don't think that I am criticizing you for not getting busy. I was just like you when I first went through this. Paralyzed.
Also my kids are out of the house, so of course I have tons of time to do things. Let us know how you are doing.

Believer and RH,

Thank you so much for everything. Sometimes I wonder why so many people we are around hurting us so much and people from far distance can lend helping hands.

I will dig deep into this plan A stuff. I think I understand it, but not understand it. I just want to know what I am doing fits into Plan.

I will definitely start exercising tomorrow to get him out of my mind. Do some house work too. Take good care of my children.

believer, I will e-mail you.

I have to go to another class now. Talk to you later.

Believer,

I don't think you critizice me at all. Actually, I want some one to push me to do things. Because I couldn't get myself to move.

I feel much better now. My Dr. said that i can only take the AD as I need it. Otherwise I will get addicted. I got the medicine a week ago, I only took the first one last night. I am not sure it work. i've never taken anything like this, I don't know what it suppose to do. RH, thanks for you concern.

Hi Lostandhurt,
You got excellent suggestions. I am sorry I did not respond earlier but I do not feel competent enough to give advice. But I can assure all the techniques and ideas suggested to you ( like getting busy, in shape, accomplishing small house tasks) enabled my survival for the past almost two years. Right now I do believe I have to seriously consider other plan, but I know I grew personally thru this time.
I hope Plan A works for you, and your childeren, and that the A ends soon and your H emerges from the fog willing to start recovery.
In any case, by following the advice on MB on focusing on you, as this is the only person you control, you will be OK.
Having family and friends and prayer as support helps tremendously.
FBOW

PS I too work full time, for me I had few really difficult moments, but trust me - you do not want to ruin your job situation, even if it seems overwhelming to pull yoourself together there.

lostnhurt - I got your e-mail and number. I sent mine. Hope that all is going well for you.

What kind of anti-D are you taking that you take as needed?

FBOW,Thanks for your encouragement. I read some of your psoting to and replied couple. I am feeling much much better today.

Yesterday, H came home earlier than I was, he cooked dinner. The atmosphere seemed a little bit better. Actually, he watched TV with us for a while. He usually hide himself to the office after dinner if he ever stayed home. The kids liked it. Usually, I would asked them to shot off the TV and do homework. But I didn't do it. I wanted them to enjoy the time with their father.

I really have to get myself busy. All the advice I received are so valuable. I will do it.

He is not anwering my call again. i hate this so much when he does that.

I don't know why. I just want to hear his voice. Just to answer it. Maybe he try to irratate me that way? I have to overcome this.

H called around 6pm. He asked me whether there is any event going on tonight. I told him that things are as usual. Then he said he would go to the bar and not coming home for dinner. I said ok, and thanks for calling. I also asked him to answer my call incase of emergency.

I guess I felt better just because he called. I felt that at least I was "respected", not like the other night that he disappear without a trace. I didn't care who he was with anymore, I knew that I had to concentrate on myself. I took care of the kids and thier homework. D was caughing so badly, but Dr. said it is viral, nothing can be done but time. I guess that can be applied to my case.

After the kids went to bed, I read again Givers and Takers. I learned so much. As SH told me in today's IC session, we are not emotionally connected, we need to overcome the LB first. But my frustration is that H even did not want to talk to SH. I am hoping my act eventually will melt him a little bit.

He finally came home at 12:30am. I couldn't sleep till he came, I know how much I care about him. But I didn't let the bad feeling ruin me. When he came, I made the request: Can you come home earlier next time? He immediately reply: There is nothing I want to come home for. I did not say anything, I won't take it either. Then few minutes later, he said that did i bother your sleeping while I was using the bathroom so late? If that is the case, I will move my stuff to the other bathroom. (He is been sleeping the the guest room since D-day and still use the masterbath) I told him that I ask him to come home because i miss him and the kids miss him too. I also concern about his health for drinking too much. I said those word sincerely, with no begging or disrespect. But he did not say a word after that.

I just have to pray for more patience.

lostnhurt -

Happy Valentine's Day. How are things going? I hope you have been reading here and sticking with Plan A.

Believer,

Happy Valentine's day to you too.

I tried to call you few minutes ago.

I really don't know how to describe things. One minute it seems better, the next minute it turns 180 degree.

I just feel my stomach is turning upside down now. He sneak out the house. I know that he must be with OW. I can't get this off my mind. He promise to go for the kids party at 1:00pm this afternoon, where the kids have performance. He didn't take his cell phone, only the pager. Because I can check his cell phone. I know that they are use his pager to cheat now. Last night. We were about to watch a movie, all the sudden, the pager beeped, he dashed to the computer. When I went asked him when he can finish, he immediate turn off the screen, and telling me that he had to work. He tell me to sleep. What a jerk. All these lies really hurt me a lot.

Believer,

When we hung up the phone. H called. But he didn't call my cell which he usually do. Because my call has caller id. He didn't bring his cell phone, so guess where he called from. He asked me when the kids party. i told him 1pm. I asked him whehter he had lunch yet, he said he did. So you know what happend. But he said he is coming home now. I just have to gather some strength to face him now. Thanks for all the advice.

lostnhurt -

How did the party go? I hope you got through it alright. It is so hard to cope during this time.

Believer,

Here is how it went.

After he came home(which is about 50 min later from when he called, but I knew he was about 10 min away, he told me he was having a brunch with a co-worker in the Bigboy restraunt nearby, near OW's house too). The first thing he said was let's go, we are late.

We all went to the party. D played her instrument, S played Kongfu. H was talking on the phone for about 1/2 of the time, then he felt asleep. He said that is was boring. Whne we came home, he slept more. Then in the evening, we went to a friend's house for dinner. Over there, he complainted that the party was so boring, he said so many times, finally the friend said this is your 5th time saying so. He stopped. Then we watched a movie in friend's house.
The time went ok.

This morning, I initiated a conversation in the bathroom by asking him to talk to S. Harley which was requested by SH. He kept saying he had no time. I said that your can talk to him at home while he is watching the kids next week. Nest week is the winter break, he said he will take some time off at home. Then he use oterh excuses. Anyway, he dosen't want to. I told him that I am asking him to just help me by talking to SH. I need help. He said that I can helping you in many ways. I said I know that. But this one is important. He I'll talk to him after divorce. Well, I strated crying which I knew I shuld not do. Then I said that SH won't talk you out of that, he just need your perspective to help me. I am not feeling to well in this situation, I need someone to help me go through this. I do love you and I don't want to have a divorce. But I can not change your mind, I can only change myself byt making myself a better person. he said, that is nothing wrong with you, we are just incompatible, so we split. I siad that I just want to know what is the right way to be with a person, if I end up with someone else in the future, I would not want the same thing again.

Then he start opening a little bit. He said that he hurt me a lot during these couple months, but he never stayed overnight out during the past 14 years. I thought he almost confesses about his A. Then he stopped. He said he was never happy during our marriage except few months. That was about 6 years ago, when his parents were here causing a huge rage in the house. He was ready to move out. Then he changed his mind because his parents decided to move out. I guessed I worked a plan A without knowing it. He siad that I was so nice that time, all his need were satisfied. But things started going down few months later. That is what he is afraid of. But I also know that he contributed a lot to that. I told him that I read all these books which i wished I had found them long time ago. It described exactly what happened in our situation. I told him that we are in the state of withdraw, and there is hope to come back. I told him that I realized what I did wrong before. He said there is no point to talk about before, we only look forward. I said that I understand, but I don't want to repeat the same thing in the future. Then he told me I should have my onw activity, clean the house better(which I thonk is very clean), buy more clothes to make myself look better which I all agree and will do. He said that look, we bought a ski long time ago, we only went twice. We bought the membership of YMCA, it ended up he went alone at the end because the kids don't want to go. I knew that I had made a big mistake by putting the kids before him. Anyway, the conversation ended up when he got a page. He said that he will have to go to work. This one I believe, he told me last week already. I siad that I will ask him agian whehter he wants talk to SH couple days later.

I don't know whether I had violated no R tlka in Plan A. Please give me some advice. I have to go to church now. Kids are fighting.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
I don't know whether I had violated no R tlka in Plan A. Please give me some advice. I have to go to church now. Kids are fighting. <hr /></blockquote>You are not at all. Actually if you could avoid LB ... it is very good. It keeps the communication open.

About your kids... you need to sit them down and tell them that parent is having a problem they should behave and help out ... be big boys. Answer their question honestly and also according to their age.

-rh-

lostnhurt -

You did great. Now you have planted the seed that marriage can be better than ever.

I think you talked very calmly considering the subject. Now get on Plan A for several months.

Go to flylady.com for some tips on cleaning the house in only a few minutes a day. Get busy on changing yourself.

These may all be just fogtalk and excuses for his poor behavior. But get started working on things to raise your self-esteem.

This morning I cried while talking to him. I also told him that I am very very sad, I and depressed. One thing he said about our marriage was that we didn't have much conflict in financial area, he was easy going on food, he ate whatever I cooked. He admitted that he lost a lot of money in the stock market, but I didn't complainted, he said he is wrong about that. He let me take care of our financial now. He also complaint that I didn't iron his shirts. I do now.

This afternoon(he is still not home yet), he called me and told me that he doesn't want to see me depressed. He told me to talk to a firend of mine who just divorced. He said that maybe she can help me to get over it. I told him that depression is not an issue, it is our M. I don't want to give up our M. We have been married 14+years, before we dated 4 years. I said that our M is sick, it is time to take care of the sickness. Escape won't help. He said what do you want to do? I told him that I will work on myself for a better person, he will marry a new person. He was very doubtful and said, how can you overcome all those habits that came with you. I told him that I committed to this M. I will do it. Just read about harley's book and it described exactly what happened to us. Just give ourself a chance to learn to be happy. Even if it doesn't turn out working, it will help both of to be a better person. That he finally sighed and siad, let me think about it.

I won't pur much hope to what he said. i will concentrate on myself. This afternoon, S and D all went to their friends house. I was home alone. I cleaned all the bathrooms and swept the garage. It has too much dirt from snow. I felt ok. Just picked up S and put him in bed. I will have to pick D too.

lostnhurt -

You are doing fine. Now work on yourself and no more relationship talk. Have you read the 180's? I will find them and post.

lostnhurt -

Here they are:

I got this off http://www.divorcebusting.com.

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,
etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start
the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his
whereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have
had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you
are going to move on with your life, with or without
your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull
back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more
important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show
your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him
someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which
may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you
want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &
focus on all the other parts of your life that are not
in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any
words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you
are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with
your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than
50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in
absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad
you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

Believer,

Thanks a lot. I saw the list befoe. I need to print it out and stick to my office.

Believer,

Are you out there?

I feel very empty today. Hard to concentrate at work. But I need to do it. I read your post somewhere on what happened to you on Valentine's day. I feel so sorry for you. But I am also very proud of you. You are so strong. I need to learn a lot from you.

Hi, I'm here, still flying by the instument panel. Yep, Valentine's Day it felt like the plane was going down, but I just keep trusting in the instruments. It gets easier and easier.

So you just stick to the program and keep being a good wife, mother, and working on yourself. Stay in Plan A, and make the changes you can.

You won't feel like it now, but after some time here, you will get strong, things won't hurt you like they do now, you will have confidence.

I am looking out the window again. But I need to concentrate myself in the flying panel.

Last night, he said he was going to watch a movie with me, but then he went on the phone till almost 12am. I was not mad at all. Then he got a page, and rushed to the computer again. I know that it must be OW. This morning, he told me he is not coming home for dinner. I just said you are going somewhere. He said I am going to a movie, (pause), with some co-workers. That sends my mood down 2000ft. But I know I have to hang in there, not to let my plane crash. I will take D to see a Dr., she is still coughing badly, and has sore throat. Then I may go shopping with her a little bit. It is going to be a long day.

He kept telling me to have fun myself. He meant to meet other guy. I told him that I will have fun, but I will keep my vows. I may do that in the future, but not now.

Just got a call from Dr. office. I had mammagram last week, now they thought something is suspicious. I need to have further test. I am very numb already. SOmetimes I do hope that I will die and end all these. Maybe my prayer got answered.

I even don't know whether I should tell my H about it. I don't want him to think that I am using it as an excuse to get him back.

Get it checked out soon. 90% of them turn out to be a cyst, and not dangerous.

Let H know, but don't expect much support. You can take care of yourself and we will support you.

Thank you believer. I already have an appointment next Thursday.

Today, I took D to Dr's office. She is ok, just virus.Then we went out shopping,. We bought some clothes for her and me. We had lunch, went to a book store and music store. It was good. But I couldn't get rid of the bad thinking and feeling. Few times my tear burst out, I had to go to the restroom, don't want D to see it. S went to his friend's house. Sooner, D will be going to her friends for overnight. I will be home alone. But I will vacume the house, do some cleaning, hope to have myself occupied.

Good time to get some organizing done. Do you have everything in the house organized? Check out www.flylady.com.

It is normal to have tears at first, but soon they will go away.

Good time to get some organizing done. Do you have everything in the house organized? Check out www.flylady.com

Reading the flylady stuff is fine.

However,
DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!

Subscribe to Flylady at your own risk! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If you do, you will receive at least 15-20 email a day as "reminders" to do something (clean the sink, take a break, etc). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

[ February 17, 2004, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Just finished vacuming. Dropped D to her friends house, and picked up S. I did checked on Flying lady. many good ideas. I made up my own plan. Clean up one draw in the kitchen perday for 15 min. I have a huge kitchen with more than 30 draws. It will last me for about a month.

Met H's good friend today. He was complaining to me that H did nopt have time to talk to him anymore. He has CHANGED. What was going on with him? I said that he is busy. Then he asked whehther we want to join them skiing this weekend, he talked to H, he sounded so unwilling. I siad I don't mind going if you can talk him to. He siad I will try again. Good luck.

No luck talking to OW's husband. I send an e-mail to him asking where she was about on Sat morning when my H disappaer. He said that he lost his job. Sat morning, she took their little S for shopping and came back around noon, about the same time frame. Then he questioned me why I ask. He kept saying that there is nothing between them. I said that I hope so. I also found the credit card has charges for 2 movie tickets on the night he disappeared. When the cell phone bill came, it only showed the detail calling of my phone(we had family plan), his was hiding. he can call to have them not to show it. I asked him, what happened to your phone? He just said that he did not know. What kind of lie.

This aftenoon, I told him about the mammagram. First he tried to be simpathy and said whether he can take me to the Dr., I thanked him and said no. I can take care of it. Then he started LB. Do you think it is cancer? It is impossible, your mom didn't have it, how can you have? It it only for those have big boos. I just stopped talking to him.

Well that is good that you hooked up with flylady.com. It will give you something to do while Plan A'ing. I know that it will help you, and it is so easy to do on a schedule. I have been doing it for 2 months and just about done.

It will be nice to keep your home as a safe haven for you, to have a nurturing home, that you will feel good about.

Also the more you do, the better your self-esteem will be. After being betrayed, most BS's have a very, very low self esteem.

I am very confused now.

Yesterday morning. He initiated a talk about our R. He even mentioned that if we start again, will we be happy. I said that it will if we both commit to it. Then he back off, he said that I am not sure. And then he was telling me that we both tried very hard in our M and gave me some examples on how we both changed. I just listened. Then finally he had a remark: the talk we have lately maybe more than all we had talked since we married. I said that I am sorry that happened. I hope that we will talk more happy things in the future. Then I went downstairs to make him coffee. But when he came down, his was cold again and telling me that he will not be home for the evening, that was when my mood went down. He didn't come home till 12am. I was still awake. Then he started complaining about his boss. He said that all his hardwork during weekends were questioned. He said that I don't care anymore, i won't work on the weekend anymore. He also said that his training in March was not approved by his boss. he wanted to go to CA. I don't know whether the OW is going or not.

So I don't know what is going on with him. Without going to work on weekends, he will still not be home. I am sure he will be with OW. Then he also asked me when I will be home tomorrow evening(it is today now). I said it is the usaual time. I asked him that are you going out again. He said a girl in work asked him to go to the bar, but he said that he is not going.

I am so confused. What is going on here. I am totally lost. One minute, he is talking about our M, next minute he is talking another girl(who is she?). I don't know whether I am in the right direction. It is very frustrated.

I had a long day yesterday. H stayed home watch kids because they are having wither break. When I can home at about 6:30pm. Thnings were so warm. Dinner were cooked, he was waiting for me for dinner. He made the soup I like. He's been doing this for at leat couple weeks M. and W., these are the evenings I come home later than him. But he would stay out late on T. TH. Everytime he stayed out, it hurted me a lot. But anyway, I enjoy these evenings so much, I felt that my H is back.

But last night, D ruined it. She was so fussy. Crying with no reason(at leat this was what I thought), yelling, cursed her brother, telling me I am a bad mother, H a bad father. From the logical side of my mind, I knew that it maybe caused by the situation from last couple months. But from my feeling side, it is just so hard to deal with. I tried to talk to her, she got angrier. So I left her room, then she scream and cried. It just made me felt terrible. Finally H went to talk to her. Magically, he calm her down and she apologized to me. I thanked him and also asked him to teach me what to do. He didn't say anything.

After that, we watched Seabuscuit together which we sopposed to watch couple nights ago. We did have good time. But I was so tired, I fell asleep two times.

I don't know what he is thinking and why he acts like this. Is this a good sign? From deep in my heart, I can't believe it. But I know that I have to consistent for my paln A. I just have to rely on GOD. Only HIM can gave me the answer of my life. I pray for patience.

Sounds very promising. Just keep on with Plan A. It will be hard for awhile, but gets easier.

Of course your d is reacting to all of the problems. Keep trying to have a nurturing home, so she will feel secure.

Today it is my turn to stay home. A friend also sending her kid over. M. W. a curch friend also send kid over while H was home.

First I took the kids to take passport photos. Then I went to the post office to apply for a passport. It turned out that they need H to be there too. So I called him and he came right a way. But they also need the birth certificates. I drove home to pick them up. They were not home, it took me a while to remember that they are in the safe in the bank. When I was in the bank, the clerk forgot the code after entering the first door, we got stucked between two doors for a while before got rescued. But anyway, it took me almost an hour to get back to the post office and have everything done.

Then we went to the library to pick up Love Must be Tough. Then found out that His Need Her Need is over due. Someone is reserving it. I hope he or she is not in my situation. Drop D to for babysitting.

After coming home, start a little bit of cleaning. Few plants are dying. But I noticed that underneath the dead plants, new ones are coming out. I clean all the dead leaves, abd water them. It may be reflect my M. I am hoping it is the case. I will keep water them now, when it is time, give them fertilizer. Weather is nice. It is been two months since last time it was 40 degrees. I went for a very short walk(5 minutes) while the kids watching TV. I feel pretty good today.

But somewhere under my mind, I still wonder what my H is thinking. Is this real? But he still refuse for MC. How long will this last? He said he wants to get a MBA. He talked about it few times in the past, but never put in action. Why does he all the sudden mention it again. Too many questions to ask. I will just hang in there to my best.

My gut feeling was right. H called around 6pm and again telling me that he will not come home for dinner and stay out very late. I asked hem that whether he needs to work, he said no. He will go out with coworker. He alreagy establish ed a pattern. Whenever I am home, he will go out.

D's mood was changed immediately. She was so upset that Dad is not coming home again. She cried. But I was able to talk her out a little bit. I promise her to take her to a bookstore. But I don't know how long this will last. How can I bribe her every time like this.

My heart is sinking again. But I know that I have to hang in there. I am praying for strength.

Stay with the plan. There will be lots of ups and downs. Check and see if OW is going out late tonight also.

Believer,

Thank you for being so supportive to everyone. I saw your posting to every one who have questions and give then encouragement.

I don't think OW's H is cooperative. I don't want to bother to ask anymore. I want to hire a PI. But the problem is that even I find out the truth, so what? What do I do with it?

Then you let OW's H know that you have proof. Shed some light on the affair. You can even expose H at work. Yes he will be mad, they all are.

I already told OW's H with what I had. I have pages of cell phone bills calling her everyday, hours of talking. Now he hides the phone, I don't know what is shown. They also changed to beeper, not cell any more. I don't have proof for now.

How do I expose him at work? Do I push him away? He kept saying he wants a D, he is staying just for the kids. He will do it later, give them so time for cushion.

OW's H is in deep denial. I would keep a journal and keep the dates, and maybe later show it to OW's H.

In the meantime, stay in Plan A for at least 3 months, then might be time for Plan B.

I really don't want a Plan B. But it may be too early to say. I am praying everyday that thing will get better. i want the real "better", not the fake one.

I am reading Dobson's Love Must be Tough. The first few pages alread make me cry. One example he gave are the sixth grader's assignment with "wish". I wish my parents won't fight and my father would come back. That is exactly how my DD prays every night before bed time. Some times I do question GOD, do you hear her? (I am crying now).

Have you told your daughter that you have a plan? You need to reassure her. Yes God does hear your plea.

Hang in there and fly by the instrument panel. Also how are your drawers doing?

I did tell D that i have a plan and i am working on it. She is too young to understand everything. She keeps asking me everyday, do you resolve your conflict yet?

I feel angry today. I hate him so much. But I control it. It is a long and lonely day again.

Last night, I took my second anti-D. It made me fall asleep till morning without waking up at night. I read Drobson's book, he described that the WS in this situation wanting out, and we the BS should open the door of the cage and let him out. Then they will see what is out there. It made me feel that I should go for Plan B sometime. I will hang in Plan A at leat till we are done with the summer trip to oversea. Then start implementing Plan B. That time, kids are out of school, I will be too.

Continue to reassure your daughter. Spend some time with your children doing fun things. Put your H on the back burner (not literally!), and make changes in you.

[ February 20, 2004, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: believer ]

Believer, You are right.

I feel very very tired today. Maybe it is the anti-D. I have to think of something fun to do with them. They usually don't like going without H.

Just called home. D said H is sleeping. Becasue he didn't come home till 1am last night. Now he is taking a 1/2 day off to sleep. What a mess!

Lost hang in there it is very hard for me also. My WH stays the night at OW house on Fri. night so tonight is extremely hard on me. I am very jittery and just can't sleep on Fri. and Sat. I wish I had some place to go, but I always have the kids.

NY,

I know exatly how you feel. I am trembling and heart breaking now. After hung up the phone with D, I arrived home at about 4pm(EST). S and D was so happy to see me, because they asked their dad whehther they can go to the mall. They thought he meant going together, i thought so too. I said ok. Then he immediately told me that he will leave, tell me to take the kids to the mall. My heart sank right away. Kids were upset and crying. Then his page rang. He left right away. My hear is aching so much. But I can not crying in front of the kids.

I don't know where he is going. I want to hire a PI to find out. Does anyone have any suggestion?

NY, I encourage you to hang in there and I am encouraging myself.

I think I am sinking. Someone please help. This terrible feeling is destroying me. Why does he have to go?

Lost,

Hang in there. We are here for you. Don't sink, swim, swim swim. I know it hurts but you can do it. He has to find out on his own and there is no other way. Keep your chin up. Post, talk. Read my posts and see if you can help me at all. I have different problems that might take your mind off of yours, that is what I do now. I try to concentrate on other things. My WH is coming tomorrow and I don't know how to act around him. We do not live together anymore so plan A is hard. Do I try to kiss him hello? Do I say thank you for the valentines he gave us? Do I have him read SAA book? I don't know what to do anymore either. Lets hang in there together.

NY,

Thanks a lot. I did read your posting and replied. It is ok to be polite and kiss him. It may not be an affectionate kiss. But a regular friendship one is ok. It maust be hard on. What going in my mind now is that I really want a quick D to end all these.

I want to talk to someone. If you can please. We will encourage each other. You are in NY right? I can call after 9pm free. But don't post your phone # here. You can e-mail me at kzmath@hotmail.com.

Lost,

I have emailed you outside of the board you should get it anytime now. Hope to hear from you soon. I hope you calm down a little and things work out for you. I am here if you need me. Keep posting and keep breathing there is light at the end of tunnel they say or clearing of the fog eventually.

NY,

Thanks a lot. I haven't got your e-mial yet. I will check a little bit later.

I feel a little better now. S and I just finished dinner. D went to her friends house. We are watching wheel of fortune.

That's it just do everything like normal. That is what I try to do. Take it easy and have fun with your kids. We did lots of stuff this week together to take up time and make my mind go somewhere else. Are you on Anti-Ds? I am and it really helped a lot. Xannax to sleep at night, that isn't helping but I am going to try to get something different next week. Have a good night. Talk to you later.

Ny,

I still did not get your e-mail. It is kzmath@hotmail.com. I am on Xenax too. I too one last night, but I still feel tired now. My Dr. told me to take it only as needed. So I dib not take too much.

Hey, what's all this about? Everyone here needs to keep their chin up. Otherwise you may never make it through this.

It took my H 3 months of running wild with the OW before he started coming a little to his senses. And he is still not there yet.

Put H on the back burner, and have a nice life for you and kids. You have to start doing something to increase your self-esteem.

Believer,

I hear you.

Bur my mood is a down side now. I need to vent.

Any suggestion what I should do with the kids to have fun. I suggested games, S was screaming to say NO. D was in tear and saying that daddy only cares himself. Why does he have to go out and leave us a lone. This week, the kids saw enough movies. They are tired of TV. I offered to take them to the mall, they refuse to. D told me that she didn't feel like it if dad is going somewhere else. Finally, she went to her friends house. S and I are alone here.

I did clean another draw. S open a toy that needs a lot of instruction to build. we build it together(this should be a great oppotunity for father and son). And it did not work. So he said he will ask dad when he comes home.

Believer, you are right. I should have put him behind. I was telling myself that H is dead, the person I see is just some alien in his body.

Today, he stayed home in the afternoon. When I came home, all the gabages were out, dishes are clean(he never did that). He did laundry too. I have to give him credit for ding those. But I don't understand why he did all those. He never did these house work before. Was he feeling guilty? Should I hire a PI to find out where he is and with whom?

Believer,

I thought you were in recovery? How long have you been doing this for?

Lost,

I emailed you, you should get it soon. I have aol.

NY,

Believer is the strongest I've seen so far. She is aslo very helpful and supportive to everyone here. She is a GOD sent.

Lost,

You are right she is. I look for her online all the time. I am having some trouble posting at times. I keep getting a flood error and I have to wait and then my posts come up twice for some reason. Just to let you know why they are twice.

Ny,

Because there are too many heatbroken people here. I am thinking to go to s church's support group near by. Not the one I go usually. I don't want the people around me to know the problem yet. If it can be resolved quietly, it will be great.

Lost,

That is a great idea. Get as much support help as you can. Whatever it takes to get through this. We will be here for you.

NY,

I feel a lot better now. Life has to go on right?

My father just called and asked for H. He needs him to fix his computer. I had to tell him that he is busy. I only told my sister and a friend about the problem. My parents love me, but I don't think they know how to be supportive. Last year, I had to remove a ovarien cyst. They only cried. I had to comfort them. So I decide to not to tell them anything yet.

Lost,

Life does go on and I think that is the point everyone is always trying to push. I just go about life like normal. Until he has to come and get S. Then everything falls a part. Everything is so up in the air. We might have to move from our house into a trailer and everything. He is only going to pay the bills for so long. I am sure OW will get P about that after a while. I love my house. I am a SAHM and waiting a SSD case to go through for two back surgeries. Hopefully I will hear something soon so I know where we stand financially in the future. I figure as long as we are still in this house we still have a chance at a future together as a family again.

NY,

I will pray for you. Please have a good sleep tonight so you can show your best to H when he comes. We are all here with you.

Hi everyone. I am in recovery, but unfortunately alone. H is still going back between me and OW.

However all my days are good. You will get there too. That is what is so great about the MB plans. Just stick to them. Do not waiver.

Thank God our kids are grown. They are still hurting over this, but not like little ones hurt. My s-daughter has gained 60 pounds, my other s-daughter is almost to 250. She is a beautiful girl, but this whole thing has hurt her.

This whole thing is very hard on the family too. You ladies here with children need to come along side them and love and support them. Let them know that mom has a plan. Comfort them and tell them that you are taking care of things.

Get into the habit of having fun with just them. Put WH on the back burner and start living your life. Plan things with kids, without WH. For most of you, H has always been a part of activities. Now that has temporarily changed.

Kids are easy. They follow your lead. If you get enthusiastic about something, they will too. Play monopoly, organize their rooms, do crafts, go fishing, go walking, sight-seeing, get some fish, get a cat or dog, get a snake, anything to distract them.

Believer,

I think that I behaved like a kid this afternoon. Parents or teachers told you what is the right thing to do and you just go your onw way. I feel that I have to fight with my feeling everyday. I need to pray a lot.

In law just called to find H. I told him that he is not home. He was so suprised. I told him that he seldom home now and said no more. he said he will call his cell.

Part of Plan A is exposing the affair. When you get more information, you need to tell everyone.

Also try to go out and do something fun today. Don't sit around and watch H sleep.

Good morning, Believer.

You are so early. I see that you reply to every one. Thanks a lot.

H didn't come home till almost 2am. Of course he is sleeping now. I just a receipt of almost $200 for fine jewlry paid in cash from his wallet, dated 11/26/03. That was about the time this A started. I made acopy. I will have to store these thing in a safe place.

S already got up. But D is still sleeping. I promise to take them to the mall, no matter H is going or not. You are right, I need to shift my focus.

Good for you. When you go, forget about H, engage the kids. Go somewhere fun for lunch and have a good time.

Hide that receipt copy where he won't find it.

Yesterday it ended up a long day. When we were ready to go, H said he wanted to join us. Then I asked him whether he can fix my father's computer, he said ok. So we went to parent's apartment first and had the computer fixed.

Then we headed to a very large mall to have lunch. Spend almost 6 hr. to walk around indifferent stores. It was a long walk and good excersice. At first, my mood was very low, I knew that I can not show it. I kept telling myself that I need to enjoy it and i also prayed. Finally I was able to bring it up. H kept asking the kids: Are you happy? at least 10 times.

Then we went to Chinese restraunt for dinner. We got the reading from the fortune cookies.

His: When you speak honestly and openly, others truly listen to you.

Mine: Your path is arduoud, but will be amply rewarding.

Oh, mine, what a reading. I hope it is true. I am not supersticious, but these words do give me some encouragement. Then we went grocery shopping, didn't come home till 11pm. It was a tired day, but it is good. I just wished I could have enjoyed more.

Now I need to get the kids up and get ready to go to church. I am sure that H will go somewhere, but I don't care.

The idea of getting a PI is keeping lingering in my mind. Should I hire one? I need to have some evidence who he is with.

Ha! I love the fortunes. How appropriate. Are you sure you didn't plant them?

If you could get him to use the home phone, you could bug it. You can get a recorder from radio shack that you just plug into a phone jack anywhere in the house. It will record everything.

Then you just go out for the day and leave him at home, and hope he calls someone.

No, I don't think he use home phone a lot. He uses the cell and hide the phone activity. I need to call the cell company to find out. It is under his name. Who he talks to on the phone may not be important. I need to know whom he is meeting at nights. Is there any device I can buy to pu in his cloth, so I can listen? Boy, I am becoming a spy.

Kids did not behave in hte morning. H is yelling at them,and threat them that he will leave. What kind of father!

You can get a voice activated recorder to put in the car, but the people here seem to have trouble getting anything clear.

Or you may just have to hire a PI. They are expensive, but will get the goods on him. Then you can expose the A.

Believer,

I am seriously considering hiring a PI. I need to find out how much it costs first. I will pray for direction. Talk to the ministor and friends before any action. I need to go to church now. Take care.

A PI may cost around $500. for 4 hours. A cheaper way is to rent a car, and if you can figure out when he is going, you or a friend follow the suspected OW. Put on a blond wig.

Another thing to try is call all the motels in the area. I did that and every single one of them let me know that H was not registered there.

It only takes a little time. I called and said a friend was checking in at around 5:00PM. I gave his name, and each one let me know he was not registered.

Then if you find one he is at, hang up and show up at the motel.

That is a good idea. But what if he doesn't use his won name?

lostnhurt -

Most places require ID. He will probably use own name, or maybe it will be in her name.

I wrote all the motel numbers down and called one after another - all 17. It took less than 20 minutes. It saved a lot of time, and gas.

But I think that there are much more than 17 of them in this area. It is a huge metro area. I even don't know which direction he is heading to. We are close to Cananda, I found one credit card charge of hotel in Canada in Dec.

Well they usually go back to the same place. So call the hotel in Canada. Otherwise rent a car and follow OW. It only costs about $25.00, much cheaper than a PI.

That is better idea. Now I have to think of babysitting and explain to them where mom will go.

Now I just came home. I w3as responding to you from the library. As I predict, he's gone again with no trace.

But I found some pwd and ids. I can get to the cell phone page. But there is no activity for his phone. I am calling the phone company.

I don't know why I got to hate him now.

Start calling hotels and motels. Do it for about an hour. Then next time he disappears call other hotels.

Later you can rent a car, put on a blond wig and follow suspected OW. If you know ahead of time that he is likely to leave, you will have a head start.

Lost are you in NY? Close to Canada where?

While I was holding to talk to the cell phone company, my cell phone rang, it was OW's H. I missed that call, he said he had something for me in hte message. Then I called back, but he was not there.

When I canme back to the phone, I lost the customer service. I have to wait again. I am not in NY.

He has probably figured it out. Have you called hotels?

I think you will find out soon what is happening. Are you ready?

I am still on the phone with the cell phone company. He asked to removed the detail callin. I am asking to reintate that.

I am ready to learn something and I am not ready. Oh, I am so SAD and MAD and ANGRY. I want to cry. How about the kids. Why am I going through this?

The phone company said that they add the detail calling back. Now I can check that.

This bad feeling is coming back. I am crying. Somebody, please help.

L&H

I hope you are okay. I had to leave for a while and I see that you are sad. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Please write and tell me what you found. I am here listening to you. Please post and let me know how you are. I hope you are better.

XXXX

Thanks NY.

I was really really sad. But I feel better now. We just had dinner. H is still nowhere to be found. He didn't answer my call of cause.

But the most important thing is that the A is getting more and more clear. OW's husband confirmed that she left about 11 am this morning with out trace, exactly the same time H left. He also confirmed that last week 3 nights when H disappeared, she disappeared too. He lost his job and stays at home now. So she can go just leaving the children to him.

OW's H just called to asked me what to do. I told him to come on board. Then we will get hard evidence. He will call my H to ask him to stop. I will do what ever to confront him to. I can't stand it anymore.

Lostnhurt,

Let us know how you are.I hope you are ok or found some help maybe thru a crisis hot line if you need to.We need to have a talk about this WH of yours.This whole situation is NOT working.

O

L&H

I am glad you are good. I know all about really really sad. I was really sad last night also. Whenever he comes it is sad for me. I like it better when he is not here. I am seriously thinking about the plan B. I don't think he will care or it will bring him home, but it would be better for me and my state of mind and that is what matters. It hurts me tremendously when he comes here. He is my H and I love him so much and he feels nothing for me. I am going to consider plan B after this week. I am going to execute plan A one more week and then go straight into the plan B phase I think. I really need a break from him. I hope you are better. We are here for you. Of course I am going off to sleepy land right now. But I will be here for you tomorrow again. Have a good night. Don't worry it will work itself out, that is how I am doing. One day at a time. I do not look into the future, just one day at a time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks a lot.

What do I need to talk about WH?

Call out to Oct in the subject line. She will answer and you can chat with her about the WH problem. Obviously things aren't working for you the way they are. Take her advice and sit with it for a while. Amy Maree also has great advice. Have a good night please!

Hi again,

I see you found your way back here,that's good.

Listen,you and this OW husband may never actually find hard evidence of an affair but it is taking an extreme emotional toll on you.That has to stop and how you can help stop it is to find some strength within you and confront your H calmly but firmly about your suspicions.If you engage him in a non threatening way,he may just finally blurt it out,then again maybe not but it's time to put your foot down and "stop the madness".

You have a right to know why he is acting the way he is,it is harmful to your wellbeing as well as your kids and you have to stand up and let him know in no uncertain terms that this will not continue.Even if you need to say something like,"I don't know what is going on but I am confused about your reactions toward me and the children,your disappearances and I would like some answers,if you are unable to be open and honest with me then I may need to seek legal counsel regarding our marriage".
Something to shake him up but in a *non confrontational manner.

I personally don't thin you need to have a boatload of evidence to say,what a minute,are you having an affair? There is nothing wrong with actually asking,you do have that right and he does have a responsibility to tell you even though he may not,but the point is you have to let him know that you are on to him and you are going to be a force to reckin with.Don't let him steamroll you,gather whatever strength you can,get the kids to stay with a relative and chose your day and time to start turning this around.

More later.

o

O and everyone,

Thanks for your advice. I already confronted him once. Things are just getting sneakier. But this pattern of disappearing is the best proof. He kept saying he was with co-workers. One day is this one, the other day is the other one. I don't believe him at all.

If you see what I posted earlier. He started with asking me for a D. He said he doesn't love me anymore. he wants to get a "peaceful" divorce. It is only good for the kids and me. (you know what, I found all these exactly in Dobson's book, it seemed that he read the book and recited to me. What a joke!) He stays here right now is just for the kids. I don't see how that benifit the kids. Last week, T, he didn't come home till 1am, THursday, didn't come home till 2am, Friday, didn't come till 4am.

How do I confront him again calmly. He denied totally last time. After I confronted him, what do I do? Plan B. I am having a headach.

I'm back.Had to get the kids to bed.

I need to clarify the "confrontation".Take that as meaning engage in conversation about your suspicions in a *non threatening way,that is what I meant.The later it gets in the evening,the more typos there are and the wording gets confusing.lol

Anyway,I'll check in on you tomorrow.I hope you are able to get some rest tonight.Hang in there.

O

He just walked in. I asked him calmly where did you go? He said, it is not your business. Why should I tell you where I went. I said I have a right. He said, I went dating. Ok, with whom? It is not your business. He gets mad, and walk away. There is no way I can talk to this mad cow!

I'm back home. Your call was on my answering machine. Wow it seems like you have found out and OW's H will now be on your side. See if he will start posting here.

Now that he is suspicious it will put some pressure on the A. That is very good.

Please try to take care of yourself. Your children need one stable parent.

Lost,

Are you now in contact with OW husband? He could be a great ally.That is good like believer said.The both of you can now put pressure on them at home until one of them cracks and the news is out once and for all,then you can take a cue from either one and see where they will go with it.

Maybe one of them will move out or who knows what.When they get their backs up against the wall,you have to make sure you are strong and brace yourself.Remember to be NON confrontational,you can ask questions calmly but don't blow your stack.It is VITAL that you do not as much as you may want to.You will only feed the fire and that won't help.

Keep taking care of yourself,you will need all the strength you can get for what may come.Take vitamins,eat right,get sleep,take AD's,etc.etc and take care of those kids,help them,make their world a safe and happy one as best you can.You are on a mission now.

Lastly,if you can,start making copies of bank account statements,credit card bills,mutual funds,cell phone bills,all assets and so on if you have access.Start putting together a folder of these things and hide it or if you can give it to a reliable family member,do so.This is just prepatory,nothing more.

Be back later.

O

Believer,

I tried to call you again later. But your line was busy, I knew you were on line. But I was too tired to get back on line. I couldn't sleep either. I took another Xena. It put me in sleep, the side effect is that I am still very sleepy now.

This morning, we had another bathroom conversation. That is the only chance I can talk to him. Here is how it went.

Me: I felt very hurtful by your recent behavior.
H: What kind of behavior.
M: Your disappearance not telling me where your were and where you were with. you not coming home after midnight.
H: Why do I have to report to you. I need to have free time.
M: I am your wife. I need you to respect me as a person by telling what is happenning. Kids and I miss you too.
H: We are divorcing.
M: We are still married. Even though you don't consider I am your spouse emotionaly, but you need to repect me as a person. You said you wanted to be a friend, friend doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.
H: So I will move out, is this what you want. So I don't have to report to you. You are hurting me too. I hate you to check me around.
M: I am just telling you that you hurt me. This is my feeling. I need to know the truth. I did not say anyother thing.
H: I do everything at home, you are still not satisfied. you still need to check me and spy on me. I told you to go out yourself. If you keep doing this, I am mad. I don't like it.
M. I just said that I am hurt by your behavior. I need the truth. I have to go to work. We will talk later.

When I got the car, I cried so hard. It hurts. Then he called me. He said S is crying not want to go to school. Why is he like that. I said that he is like that lately, he mood is not stable. I will talk to him. S told me that he feels bored( I know it is the affect of what is going on at home), he doesn't want to go. I promised to talk to his teacher about it. I did tell her what is going at home and ask her to pay some attension to him.

Please advice me how to talk firm and without LB.

Sounds like you did just fine. I'm going to work now, will talk to you later.

I am not sure. I couldn't hold my tear. Should I talk to S. Harley again about what to do next?

Yes. He is the expert. You need expert advice at this critical time.

Believer,

Are you at work already? It is quick. I am sitting in my office trying to prepare a class. But I just can't concentrate. This is taking me to much. Imjust call to schedule, they are so busy. They need to return my call to schdule the appointment. There must be to many broken heart people.

I don't know whether I need to talk to his parents about the A. D called them last night telling them he is not coming home. Thye didn't realize what it is. They call him and tell him to saty home. He just say I know. But this man's heart is not here already. All he wants is to get of this M. Dobson's book is to let him go, set the cage free. Should I do that. Right now it is too painful. But if I let go, will he ever come back?

Wait for appointment with the Harleys. Things may be happening in OW's life right now that you know nothing about. Stay in Plan A right now. Do it for your kids.

Ok, I will still be in Plan A. But I need to confront him. Ow's H is going to call him to stop seeing her. It will make him mad.

Got an appointment with SH. It is on Thusday, the day i have more tests.

H just sent me an e-mail about going to a boyscout banquet as a family. I didn't reply. I am confused, mad and hurt.

Hang in there. You can do this.

Should I take money out? Where should i put it? Under a account of my own name?

I am taking care of all the bills. He is using a credit card under my name. He haven't given me a penny since Jan. I don't see too much change in spending in credit card. But he is using cash.

Wait till Thursday. Don't do anything right now. See what develops, and yes, H will be furious.

Just got an e-mail from S teacher. She said she understands and recommend to see a conselor in school. Is that a good idea?

I just cry again. I want to stop crying, but how do I control it?

Believer, thanks for your encouragement.

Wait till Thursday. Don't do anything right now. See what develops, and yes, H will be furious.

There are two of myself living inside me.

One said I even don't know I can live till Thursday. The other one said that you should trust GOD. He will handle everything. so i will listen to the kind me.

Time to batten down the hatches. Get ready for a big storm. Your H is going to be mad, so prepare yourself.

Be sure to talk as calmly as you have been. So far you are doing great.

What do i do if he gets mad? What do i do if he moves out? Will I be Plan B passively?

Stay in Plan A as long as you can. Be sure you have some money put aside. Just get prepared for whatever happens. OW's H may make trouble for her too.

Just got an e-mail from OW's H. He said that his brother in law(her brother) is going to help. But he said he doesn't want to let MIL know, she is too wesk to take it.

I am seroiusly thinking to tell my inlaws.

I feel terrible. I even don't want to go home now. Am I feeling how H feels? I just can't get the picture of shatted family in mind. God please help me.

Give us an update please. I had a huge argument with WH tonight. It was not pretty.

Believer,

Are you ok? I am really concern. If you want me to call you, just give me a ring, you don't have to wait till I pick up. I get your phone number, I can call back.

It is a boring night. He is bored. I was reading bible. He already told me that he is not coming home tomorrow.

I am fine. H came over tonight to talk about car insurance. I told him I am filing for divorce. Then we had to go through the same old argument. He keeps saying OW could have been gone, if I took H back. I told him she is not gone after a year.

So the argument went on and on. He thinks I am to blame, that he would come back, if I would take him, and OW would be gone. It just went on and on.
Finally I asked him to leave and he did.

Believer,

I am so sorry for you. I wish my H would want to come back.

He already told me that he is not coming home tognight. My heart is hammered again. I know I shouldn't be like this. Every time he is not coming home, I get this terrible feeling. How I want to get rid of it.

Couple days ago, I told D that I may not be home when in evening, is it ok she watch S. She agree. Because I want to follow H after work. But she asked me about it before H. I guess I can't go this time.

I did pray. Pray for myself, family, for you and everyone out there. I don't know what else I can do. I need to focus my thought somewhere else.

Believer, Are you ok? Hope you have a good day today.

Yes I am fine, and yes you do need to focus your thoughts elsewhere. When you start getting a life of your own, your WH will take you more seriously.

Right now he knows that he can do whatever he wants to do. Last night my H told me that it looks like I am doing well without him, that I have my own life now.

The best you can do is get out doing things. You will get stronger. Then stay in Plan A and wait to see what happens. There is more to come, and your H will want to come back. But you must be strong to handle that in the right way too. Don't do what I did.

I am glad you are fine.

I really want to get strong. But I don't know what to do. I don't have close personal friends here. Then I have to take care of the kids after school. Any advice?

I may look for a church support group to join.

OW's H starts concerning. He said he will work the other end to break them. I hope it works.

I also thought about exposing him to his relatives. One of his cousin was also divorced from an infidelity H. Maybe I can get her to support me?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
 I also thought about exposing him to his relatives. One of his cousin was also divorced from an infidelity H. Maybe I can get her to support me? <hr /></blockquote>Put pressure on A by exposing it. Also get OW'H to read up and get on to this forum too to get help.

-rh-

What would the outcome be if I expose him? Will he get mad? Will he move out? I don't know and I am scared.

OW's H seemed calmer than I am. I recommend him to come here, but I don't know whether he is here. He just lost his job.

Take redhat's advice. He is the expert. Don't dwell on what may or may not happen. Listen to him.

Should I wait till talk to SH?

lostnhurt,

First I won't wait. Exposing is one of requirement while you are doing plan A. You need to put pressure to it.

Second. You have no control over his reaction before, now or in the future. Typical reaction of an addict is saying anything doing anything to continue the addiction. If he move out, hand him plan B letter on the way out. Again in MB you don't LB and you do plan A but YOU DON'T PUT UP WITH THE A!. What are you afraid of ?.

-rh-

Ook, I will do it. Thanks Redhat and Believer. I will pray before telling.

Dear Hevenly Father, please give this woman a strength to carry on and give her the wisdom to find a way to salvage the union that you have blessed. Lord, Thy will be done. Amen.

Redhat,

Thank you for your prayer. I just talked to his cosin. She is very understandable b/c she was there before. She also told me that H is not himself anymore. Give him some time to cool down. The A is still fresh. It will take about 6 months. That is exactly what the books said. God, how do I survive for 6 months.

I had told another couple of friends.. The husband was his ex-cowrker and a believer. They said that he can talk to H if it is ok. But I don't know whether it is a good idea. SH said that, he can talk, but don't get me involved.

Yes, you can survive this for 6 months and you will survive this A w/ or w/o your WH. A happened for a reason. Just have faith. HE want to bless you with fullfilling M w/ or w/o your WH.

Let others react what they want to. Don't tell them what to do or to say and answer their question truthfully.

-rh-

Listen to redhat. We finally have the experts over here. Keep you appt. with SH. You are going to get through this. You have God, SH, redhat,OW's H, and us on your side. Keep doing what you need to do.

Be a strong woman for your marriage and children. H is too much in the fog right now.

Thank you friends, you are really helpful. I got H's cousin on borad now. So I have GOD, my faith, my sister, a pastor in Canada who pray for me fasting, the faithful couple, OW's H, H's cousin, and all of you. Of course, my children. How blessed I am. Glory to GOD.

H's cousin talked to me for more than two hours, she shared her experience too.

Then children and I made snow ball outside. It was really fun. I made some curry chicken the kids like for dinner and lunch. I will hang in here.

OW's H just e-mail me. She called him yesterday, claiming that it is "only" conversation between my H and her. what does that mean?

H is out now. I kept asking him that is she out. No answer.

Tell the OW's H that he can come here and do some reading. That's what they all say. Mine went to a motel 3 times to "talk" during the day when he was supposed to be working.

I told him that. But I don't know he is here or not.

I feel a lot better today. Peace inside. I think the prayer from the pastor in Canada really helped. He prayed with me yesterday and this morning in hte phone. I feel that I can let thing go easier.

Hang in there. You have no idea what may be working for you in your life right now. Take one day at a time.

You have lots of support. Try to clean out those drawers, cook and take care of kids. Do fun things with them. Trust that this will work out.

Yeh. I went shoppng for groceries today. I made good food for dinner, curry chicken kids like.

Then we made snow balls outside. We did have fun. I am a bit tired. I feel tired so easily lately. Maybe my emotion takes to much toll. After putting the kids to bed in few minutes, I may call my sister, then go to bed. Who cares where he is. We are having our life.

Good girl. Keep on taking care of yourself and kids. You need to keep strong. Let your H stew in his own juices. He has brought this problem onto his self.

Thanks for your praise. I need it. Hope someday we can get together, you can enjoy my curry chicken. It is really good.

Here is my quote from the Bible for you tonight:

Be still, and know that I am God.

Please take it to heart and have some peace.

Yes. I will recite it till asleep. Thanks.

Just got an e-mail from OW's H. She is not home either.

I don't care. I will go to sleep and have a good dream.

Go to sleep. Things are in the works that you know nothing about. You have made a lot of changes this week. Sweet dreams.

H came home at 12:30am last night. I was tired but couldn't sleep. My heart was peaceful. So I took another Xena whcih helped me. I wish I don't have to take it. I never had a sleeping problem.

This morning, early in the morning, OW's H called. Luckly H was in shower, and I came back from dropping D to school, otherwise, the phone called won't be picked up. He said OW didn't come home at all last night. Isn't that strange. I told him that I will call later when i am in the office.

Then I asked my H, where did you go to have fun last night. He was not as defesive as the other day. He just said, I worked. Sounded very down. I said that wow, you worked awfuly long hours, from 9am -12 am. He didn't say anything. I don't know what that means and what had happened.

But I couldn't get a hold of OW'H now, I think he is online.

Just e-mailed H to ask him to stay home Thursady. It is a pattern that he will go out every night that I can stay home. So I told him to watch the kids, I will go out. Actually, I am going to his cousin's home. He thought I am going out for whatever he thinks. To have fun.

OW'H is getting panic now. He wants to put pressure to his W to end the A. He also wants to talk to my H to stop it. I encourage him to rock the boat.

Good for you. Hopefully OW's H will come here so we can help him. Stay strong.

OW's H is so frustrated. He kept calling H, but H did not answer. I told him to call home tonight. I will not answer the phone and let him pick it up.

H's cousin said she will talk to him after the two men talk first. Maybe Thursday while I am in her house. Then the other couple will come in the picture.

Please keep praying for everything for me. I feel stronger now. Sun is shining, I went for a short walk, it feels good.

Believer, did you read my earlier posting, Ii is at the end of last page.

I just read it now. Sounds like maybe she was afraid to go home, or drinking. Next time check some motels. They have to be getting a room.

Her husband said that she doesn't need to get a hotel room. They have pleanty of places to go. She has a female friend who is single. He said that she maybe there.

Her brother is angry about that b/c she left the kids alone. So her H and brother are working on her now.

OW's H e-mail again. He said that H maybe seeing someone else. I am very confused.

L&H

Sorry you are having so much disappointment in your life. I wish my WH's OW had an H. Ow is single in my case, with 4 YO S from previous marriage. My WH looks terrible. I think the fog cleared for a few minutes today though. He actually looked sad for a small minute. Good Luck with finding your WH OW. Hope you figure it out soon.

This guy is very confused too. I called him up to asked him how he knew. He said that his W denied that she was with him yesterday. But she admitted she was with my H last Thursday. But didn't say where. I don't know what exactly happened, but I know that they were together.

Furthermore, OW's H told me that OW has a girlfriend who has an empty condo with furniture near her work. OW said that she was there overnight last night. That reminds me a gas reciept of my H near that area where is not close to my house at all. I will dig that out. But OW's H doesn't know the address of this condo.

It has to be his wife. Otherwise why would they keep disappearing together? I think she is lying to save herself. Watch for fireworks.

Yesterday, when I came home, things were not as worm as last week. He didn't cook, and looks auful. It seemed that he had a whole load.

So I coooked. Piano teacher was here for D. We had dinner after the lesson. After that, he has nothing to do. It is like he does not belong to this house. So he started making phone calls, talked the whole evening to differernt people.

I put the kids to bed. Tell them to kiss daddy good night. He looked at them like not seeing them and tell them to go away not to bother his phone calls.

Finally, he finished all his phone calls at almost 11pm. I tried to joke to him by saying wow, you really have long talks, who are you talking to? He was outburst the angry: It is boyfriend. What did you talk to ***(OW's H), he called me today. You have so much to talk to him, why don't you marry him? I was shocked. But I was not angry at all. I just calmly saying that: can you tell me what it is? I don't know what is it about? He said, you know what you are doing. If you keep stirring things, fake one will become true, and the true on...(what is it?), you are ruining everything. then he left.

I don't care how angry he is. I just want to know if this is the right thing to do? I kept praying for peace. This morning, I said good morning to him. I did everything as usual. I made his coffee, breakfast, pack his lunch. He did nto show any appreciation(of course I don't expect). But at least he could not be angry anymore. I know he felt terrible from his look. But he couldn't let it out. I felt pity for him, poor man.

Good girl, stay in Plan A. It includes exposing the affair. It will not be pleasant for H and OW. Of course H will be angry - his little fantasy is coming to an end.

All of this time he and OW could do as they pleased. Now suddenly their actions are catching up to them. Stay the course. You are becoming very strong. You are a woman who will take care of your children and family. I know it is hard, but you are doing it.

I will be thinking about you today. Are you still going to the doctor?

Believer,

Thank you for all your encouragment. I felt that GOD is really watching me by sending you.

Yes, I am going for ultrasound and other exam at 11am. Then I will talk to SH at 2pm. I am supposed to go to H's cousin this evening, H thought I will go to have fun.

I finished reading Dobson's book. I am very confused. He said that after discovering the infidelity, the BS should open the cage door.

None of the following will work:

1. Tell him you don't intend to let him go and you plan to fight for it.

2. Tell him you understand what he's done, and you undertand you gave him some reason to fool around.

3. Tell him how you think you may have contribut to his act and ask for his forgiveness.

4. Don't expect quick improvement. Don't ask him stop seeing OW.

5. Continue treating him as the man of the house. Remind him he is still your H and children;s father.

He said none of these will work. Arn't these all part of Plan A.

Dr. Dobson has a completely different view. I like marriagebuilders better. I think the MB plan has more success stories and lots of people recovering.

To me Dr. Dobson's plan does not allow for people to make mistakes. It is a very straight and narrow view.

One thing he recommend I agree is confidence:

I believe in me. I am no longer afraid. I can cope, regardless of the outcome. I know something I am talking about. I've had my day of sorrow, and I'm through crying. GOD and I can handle whatever life puts in the path.

THis is what I want and need.

Yesterday I also asked him whehter he wants to go to watch Passion of Christ with me. He said no(not surprising), b/c he doesn't like religious.
But I pray GOD open his heart.

I was thinking about your H and OW on the way to work today. I believe the reason she stayed out all night and he came home is so that they can look like they are not together.

With ny H and OW I would see her drive by on her way home, and think well H will probably be here soon. I thought he would stop at the store. Well guess what. In he comes about 20 minutes later with a bag from the store. They were both gone 8 hours, but were trying to fool me by coming home different times.

Your H will not be able to keep this up, because now you are on to them. They will continue to disappear at the same time, and may stagger the hours they come home to try to throw you and OW's H off. I hope OW's H comes here.

The more I read to Dobson's plan, the more it sounds like a Plan B. But it did not have detail descriptions. I think I will stick to the MB Plans. Hope I don't have to go to Plan B.

Please keep praying for me and all the BS.

Just come back from the doctor. First I took another mammagram to make sure last reading was right. After the Dr. read the new ones, i was asked to ultra sound. They found two little things. Then the Dr. came to do the ultrasound by himself. It was a long time, almost an hour. Finally, he concluded that it should not be harmful, but will keep an eye on them. I will need to come back to do another mammagram in 6 months. Hopefully that time this whole thing is over.

Great news! They would not let it go 6 months if they thought it was suspicious.

So that is one less worry. Keep on your plan. Take care of your home and children. This can't go on much longer. I don't think OW wants her H to find out. She will probably start cooling it.

Just hung up with SH. He said that I should not spend too much time and energy on finding out the A. All the evidence are enough. I need to concentrate on improving myself and the R with H. I told him that my mood is still very swing. He told me to get some real anti-D, not the one I am having.

lostnhurt,

Watch out being a doormat plan A ... it never work with foghead!. I did it b/c I need custody of my 2 D.

What haven't you improve ? Do you have any R w/ your WH ?.

-rh-

Hope you are out having fun. SH is exactly right. I don't think you have to do too much investigating. This is all going to come to a head very soon.

Redhat, thanks for your concern. I am not a doormat. I know what I am doing. It just took me a lot of energy to it, because I have to constantly fight with my own mood. I am doing things as usual, no LB's, keeping myself up and strong. H already noticed that, he said that it made him feel UNCOMFORTABLE!

Believer, I had a good time with H's cousin last night. I cook the dinner, took care of kids homework before leaving. I told H that I was leaving 6pm, but he didn't come home till 6:30, and asked me why didn't I leave. I said that you were late, I can't leave the kids alone. He didn't appologize. I took a shower, put on make-ups and perfume. He finally asked me, where are you going? I said to meet a friend, then left. I felt so funny.

Then we cookded dinner and watched TV. It was very relaxing. She said that she is going to talk to H and his parents too. She will be very skillful. This is a very smart business women. She had her own buisness, but her H cheated her. In the evening, D called and asked me whether it is ok for dad to take her to bookstore. I said ok. I knew it is H's idea to check on me, he called too last time I met another couple of friends.

Then I came home at 10pm. Kids were in bed already. But they were all awake waiting for me. I kissed them goodnight so they can sleep. The kitchen was full of dishes and the left over food is still on the table. I had to clean up everything before go to bed. I was very very tired lately, but it still took me more then an hour to fall asleep. I feel good today. I prayed and thank GOD for everything. I will hang in there and be strong.

You are doing great. Keep it up. It is good to go out once in awhile. Keep making changes in the way you do things.

Try rearranging the things in the house and organizing. Always have a project to do. That will make you feel good about yourself.

Be good to yourself and take care of yourself. Things may happen very soon. The affair is under a lot of pressure right now. That is good.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I will have a spring break next week. So I have all the time at home. I decided that I even don't care H is home or not. I will have my hair done, rearrange the house, clean it. Go shopping and lunch with cousin.

H called her cousin the other night, mentioning that he had a friend with a condo to sell, which is the one OW's friend. So cousin siad she will ask him where it is b/c she is interested. Ah, we will go take a look at it. Next time he goes out, we will know where to wait for him.

I really believe that this A will come to an end fairly quickly. OW doesn't seem to want her H to know. Especially since she has small children, I think she will start cooling it.

I would just keep in touch with her H, letting him know each time your H disappears. Let him put the pressure on her. He may not believe anything is going on, but will not be able to keep on believing it when confronted with more information.

People that are not hiding something don't just keep disappearing. You may want to talk to her and tell her you know what is going on and are going to show her H proof. Don't say anything about the condo though. And don't tell your kids.

Good point. I am not telling anything to the kids. It is going to hurt them a lot. They are too young to understand.

I believe things are going to cool down soon. Today I found out that H had erased her phone # from his cell. It doen't mean that they don't contact, it just mena that they don't contact that way.

Starting next Sunday, I will be teaching Sunday school for little kids for 3 months. I am praying for strength to do that.

Sister ask me whether I can go for a vacation with her. I am thinking to go to a cruise with her by the end of April. But I am not sure whether it is good for the kids. I always want to have the vacation as a family togehter. I don't want them to think that mommy is going to have fun without them.

Sorry, mommy needs to have fun without them. You need to have a break once in awhile to get recharged. It will make you a better mother and in the end will benefit your kids.

Thanks for your input. I will search for some info now. Hope to get recharged. And hope that situation will get better by that time.

This afternoon, I will go to S school to see a conselor about S's reaction and how to deal with him. Tonight, we will go to a boy scout banquite as a family. I will enjoy it.

Believer, I read other posts you had. You said that you are a little depressed. I hope you will get out of it soon. You are so strong. I will pray for you. GOD bless you.

Don't worry, I'm just a little depressed. Realizing that I don't want H back is getting me down a bit.

Other than that I am doing fine, and life is good.

I learned not to worry now. I pray for you. Whatever decision you made, I hope that it is best for you.

Talked to the conselor this aftenoon. I still couldn't control my tear when talking my family situation. But I was able to get out quickly. Then I picked up S and came home. He read his learning log to me, where he always writes: Dear Mom, .... I reminded him many times to write dear Mom and Dad, he said he forgot. I said that you forgot you have a dad? He said that he is not with us much anyway. How sad I am when I heard that. I told him that we will keep praying for him. Dad will come back to us. he agreed.

H just called and said that he can not go to the boy scout banquet. He will not be home either.

I will take the kids to the banquet no matter he goes or not. But this bad feeling is coming bad again. I hate it. I am praying that it will go away. I will be strong. I want to be strong.

Go to the banquet and have a good time. Then tomorrow check with OW's H and see if she was gone too. They will not be able to keep this up. It will have to come out into the open.

Just came back from the banquet. It was nice one. Lots of people put a lot of work on it. The weblots brigded to Eagle trail.

But my heart was getting heavier and heavier. i kept praying, tried to get rid of that feeling. Till almost the end, I felt a little better. When we walked out of the church at 9pm, my cell phone rang. It was H calling from his office. I was a little bit supprised. he asked me whether it is over yet. I said it was just over. he said that he is still at work and had some emergency. He said that he didn't have dinner yet and will come home soon. But where his work was just about 1 mile from where the banquet was, about 6 miles from home. He is still not home. But I DON'T CARE ANYMORE. I really have to force myself to do that.

Today I got my Celexa, I just took the first one. I am going to bed and read some and have a good dream.

I am just physically TIRED. VERY VERY TIRED. I don't know how long I can stand for this.

sweetie-

You will stand this as long as you have to. Do it for your kids. You have been a strong woman. You can do this. I really believe that there are forces working for you that you don't know anything about.

Your WH's A is going to come to an end. Just hang in there. Continue to take care of yourself. Go on that cruise. Make your home a warm and nurturing place.

Believer, Thank you very very much. You are an angel. you suffered, but you still can comfort the others.

Yes, I do have faith. But there are moments of weakness. I will keep praying, for me and you, and all the people who suffer.

There is still a lot of hope for you. Do not give up. Women throughout the ages have had to be strong for their families. You can do this.

It was so nice to talk with you this morning. Why don't you post a new topic in general questions about dealing with WS's lack of caring about kids? They all do that and it would help you to see that there are tons of others fighting the same battle.

It is very very diffcult to me, emotionally and physically. I am SOOOOO tired.

Today's issue was that H want him to do some math practice, like 100 simple subtraction problems. In school, the goal is to have them done in 3 minutes. S can only do about 70 in 3 min. But I don't know what happened today, H want him to do it in 2. S has to finish it 2 min. He can not skip one, had to do it from left to right, top to bottom. S was crying and verr very upset. Now I am home, calm him down. I told him that he can do 2 min at a time, do it from let to right. It may not be all of them, but do whatever you can do. So finally, H said let your mom handle it. I thank him for being perservance.

I don't know whether I can do this anymore. My stomach feel sick. I can't it, I can't sleep. It is worst than death. H now went to sleep, he said he will be going out again tonight. I wish he never come back or got hit by a car.

No you don't wish that. It would be hurtful to your kids. Like I told you, put H on the back burner, and do things with your kids, work on your home.

You are getting much stronger than you started out. You can do this. Keep your eyes on the instrument panel.

Have you ever heard of feng-shui (SP?). I did it in my house when kids were your kids' age. My son was having trouble in math. I read up on it, and realized the head of his bed needed to be facing north. I moved his bed, and guess what? His grades came way up. I laughed about it and told him that was all he needed, moving the bed.

I have started doing it in my house now. It is lots of fun. It makes sense in the fact that it teaches you that even one messy area can take up all your energy.

Yes, you are right.

I know that in my heart, I need to do all these. But I just had no energy to do it. I feel like I am drawning, struggle first, now to tired, just let go. I am dying.

Yes you are worn out. That is why you need to completely forget about H right now and take care of you and kids. The more you do, the stonger you will become.

Just keep repeating that things will get better. Because they will. I can't even recognize the person I was before. It was so miserable then, and is so wonderful now. Realize that you will get there too.

S is still whining. I am too tired. I keep telling myself, I will be there. Thanks your encouragement.

Just my heart is very heavy. Outside it is sunnt, but it looks so dark to me. Please GOD, help me.

This mood rollercost is not fun at all. I am deep deep down now.

when will this end?

Someone please talk to me!

I tried to call everyone, just to talk. But no one answered. Everybody has their onw life. I am abandonded. H just flet out again. I don';t care where he is. But this terrible feeling hurts me a lot, a lot.

He treats me with no respect. He hates me. How can I live like this?

Lostnhurt-

He is acting like they all do. I wish you would post on general questions about how he is treating the kids. It would be helpful to you to see how many folks are in your position.

I am playing battleship with S. D went to her friend's house.

I called the pastro and prayed together. I know that I have to hang in there. i am trying to get rid of this bad feeling. I need to think of GOD, not him.

I wish some can call me, talk to me, and have fun,. Not just S and me. I am tired of shopping.

Call me if it gets too bad. I have your number, but it is at work.

Thanks. I may call you.

I may post in the general question. But I don;t want to lose this thread. i need to figure out how to link to this one.

I am hungry, but I don't want to eat. I am cold and shaking. But I can't show it to my children. I am thinking of Jesus. How he died for us.

Lostnhurt -

It was nice talking to you. It's great to hear from others that are going through the same thing. No one else knows how awful the pain is.

You are doing very well, talking to your H so kindly and gently. Keep it up. Show him the way back to his family.

Beliver,

Thank you for listening to me. Thanks for your encouragement. I will keep praying, for me, for you and everyone here.

Good night.

Lots of talks yesterday.

H talked to me for about an hour.

Then I talked to beleiever.

My sister called. In the middle of talking to her, H's cousin called. I was so moved, everyone encouraged me. I am praying that GOD give me more strength to hang in here. He send everyone to me.

H cam back about 3 or 4 am this morning. I just asked him, are you done with your work, he said yes. This morning, when I was up, he was up. I said why are you so early? he said get call from work again. Then he worked in the computer.

He came to the kitchen and looked awful. He said he had a sore throat. He needs to go back to sleep. I see him as a poor man, living in two lives. How can he keep it up?

He won't be able to keep this up much longer. He does not have too many options. I can't see him being with OW and her 2 little kids. She has dishonored her marriage. Sooner or later the fog will lift and he will see that.

Continue your Plan A. You should be elected Mrs. MarriageBuilder. You are doing very well. The only problem I see is that you need someone to meet your needs.

When I started all this and was so unhappy, I made a promise to myself that I would take care of me. So that's what I've done. You will have it harder because you also have your children to take care of. But you are much stronger than I am.

It is best for you to lean heavily on this board and all of the people here. Also you have your pastor and the Lord. Continue asking your sister and cousin for help too.

The Lord will be carrying you through this and sending you people to help you.

I will keep posting here. I got lots of couragement from here.

I also found a slip in his pocket.

It has confirmation number, it said 3/4 7:30pm. Something row b, seat 206, 207.

I think that they are going to see something. But I don;t know what it is. But I don't care anymore. I talk cousin.

Forget about what they are doing and take care of yourself and children.

I still might let OM know they are going out that night. Let him ask her where she is going at 7:30. I know he is in denial, but it would help to have him on board.

Yeh, I may.

I am having hard time to get the kids up now. That is why I feel so exshusted. You are right about getting my own needs meet. I will just lean on GOD. I will just hang in there.

Time for me to go to church. I will check in later. Try to do something fun today.

Just came back from church. H is gone with mo trace as usual. But I am very tired. I will go ot take a nap.

I can't believe myself. This bad feeling is still bothering me so much.

I talked to my sister. Finally, she said that you are still putting your H in your mind too much. I admited that. How do i let go. I prayed, I read books, I tried to tell myself to let go. I played with kids. But none worked. Someday, I feel better, but not today and yesterday. I hate myself not being able to let go. It hurts.

I wonder if I go on Plan B, will it be less painful?

That's just part of the normal grieving. I was a mess for a couple of months. Yes Plan B is much better because when you don't see or talk to them, you start thinking of other things. But too early for Plan B for you yet.

I had a great day today. I took my boys and their friend out to breakfast. Then I was supposed to help sail a boat down the coast 60 miles. But I found out it would take about 9 or 10 hours.

Instead I drove down with a neighbor and dropped off a car for the sailers to ride back in. We walked around the marina and watched the boats. It was very pleasant.

You will get to this point again too, where life is good. It just takes time and going through the pain. I know, not much help. When I first found out and people here told me things would get better, I always thought, not for me.

Yes, sister keeps talking to me.
i know i have to go through this.

And you will go through this, and the awful hurt will end. I went for days, staying up all night, not being able to eat, being a zombie at work, staring at the walls. I never thought I would enjoy life again.

But after a while, the hurt gets less, you understand more of what is going on, you see others here listening to the same fogtalk, and then you start feeling better. You realize that while you love your H and want all of this to go away, you can survive and thrive without him.

You have been a good faithful wife, kept your vows, and are being a good mother. You will reap what you sow, and so will H and OW. Hang in there and wait for the miracle to occur.

Thanks believer. That is what my sis said too. I myself experienced miracle. I do have faith. I know that GOD will give me an answer. I just can not see it yet. But HE knows, because he controls everything.

Hi Believer and L&H

How are you ladies? I am glad that you are both chatting and doing good today. Thanks for answering my last post L&H it is very hard. And it is very sad also for the kids. If you reread my post again I have decided to go to Plan B. Melodylane and Octobergirl and Just J all think it is time. Mostly because of my emotional state and my LBing all the time. Today was so wonderful though hugging him and kissing him again. First time in 5 weeks anyone has even hugged me. It is hard to have him walk away again. Anyway thanks for your support and I will be writing my PBL tonight while bathing son and I will certainly post it. I do hope life gets better for me as I am sick of being so sad all the time. Keep your chins up even though it is tough I am certainly trying also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ahem. I wish one of you would post on general questions about your fears for the kids. Lots of members here going through the same thing. It makes a sad situation even sadder.

I even don't know what to say. He basically is not here. he doen't interact with them much. S just said that he deosn't care, because he is not with us. S is sad, her way to cope is to find her own friends.

Okay, I just read all 17 (!) screens of posts, so I may have missed a few things because I was reading quickly. I think that it's time for you to get ready for Plan B, lostnhurt. I think it might take you a couple of weeks to do it, but it's time to get ready.

Here's a checklist of things that you can do in the next few weeks. It's not the complete version because I can't access it right now, but it's a lot of it.

- Install spyware (www.spectorsoft.com) on the home computer.

- Decide whether you're going to kick him out or move out yourself. (I prefer you kicking him out, so that's the assumption I've made for the rest of this.)

- Write a Plan B letter.

- Change the locks.

- Tell WH's family about the affair and that you want to save your marrage.

- Tell WH's boss the same thing.

- Expose the affair to any colleauges that you think are influential with him. Tell them about the affair and that you want to save your marriage.

- Start calling the colleagues that he's told you he goes out with to let them know that he's using their names as alibis. Tell them about the affair and that you want to save your marriage.

- Decide how much time you want your husband to have with the kids and set up a schedule that works for you. Put it in the Plan B letter.

- Separate your finances from your husband's. That means closing joint checking and savings accounts, closing all the cell phone accounts, taking his name off the car insurance policy, getting your own health insurance, taking his name off the utility bills,

- Prepare your work by letting them know not to allow him into the workspace and not to allow his calls to come to your phone (if they can do that).

- Identify an intermediary (if you use an e-mail intermediary, it can be anyone on the planet) who will handle urgent stuff and emergencies for you. Put that person's name in the Plan B letter.

During all of this planning, it's important that you really focus on it and make a solid plan. Since you still live together, you will have to think hard and carefully to know how to extricate yourself and the kids from the situation. This is more important than continuing to worry about what your WH is doing at 3am.

And now I must stop. My hands are killing me (too much typing) and I've been in the office for 11 hours now. If I weren't in Plan B, I'm sure my WP would think I was having an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Just J,

Thanks for all your time. I did not post the conversation we had Saturday. I am very confused and hurt.

This morning we had another short conversation. he majorly complained our sex life. He went back 16 or 17 years ago. He said that during our marriage and coutship together, there wer only very few times we had good sex, the rest of the time he was suffering because I was not interested in it. He said that maybe it was my fault that I did not treat you nice enough, but I tried. I said that I did not understand man's need, now I know. He said it is no use to go back. I agree. He muttered, we can start again. But I am not sure this sentnce is from his heart.

On Saturday, we talked about an hour, it covered different aspects of our problems. he mentioned that he wanted to spend more time with the kids, and we will go for short trips. I should not put too much hope on that.

Yesterday, he didn't come home till 9:30pm. He said he was at work. I believed him. When he came home D asked for dental wax, he went out to buy it immediately.

I really don't want to go to Plan B if it is not necessary. He mentioned several times that he can move out if I want to. I wish the problem can be solved at this stage. Should I jsut wait for few more weeks. I am very very confused.

The MB pprogram is Plan A for 3 months, if possible. Only you know when you have had enough. If you start LB'ing (which you have done a great job not doing) or start losing your love for him, time for Plan B.

Anyway I would let OW's H know about plans for Thursday night. Keep letting him know something is going on. Also let OW know that you know and are going to continue to inform her H. She needs a little more pressure on her side.

Just called H at work and asked him to go out for lunch. He said he is too busy.

Am I too pushy? How I want want my H back! But when i read the Bible, it tells me that no anxious, be patioent, no worry. I really want to do that. I need to pray.

Talked to cousin on the phone. She told me everything I was told on this board. Be doog to yourself. Make the change myself. Let him see that I am more valued than OW. I have to do this for myself.

It is so hard, but I have to do it!

You can do this.

I am having a spring break now. So the whole week I am home.

Today, I just finished sorting out the tax documents. I will do some cooking and cleaning later. Then pick up the kids. I don't expect him to come home.

Here is what happened during the weekend.

H and I had a talk on Saturday. Satruday afternoon, he left the house for about 4 hours, then came back for dinner. He said that he will have to leave again for work. But he started like this. J is him, M, is me:

J: Let's get a divorce. We are both so painful.

M: Can you tell me why we need a divorce?

J: We are so incompatible. Look, we don't like to eat the same thing, we don't have the same interest. Our sex were so bad.

M: I agreed that I neglected you in sex and made you disappointed. But we can start over. The other area, I can improve too.

J: You don't have to change. It is impossible to change. You don;t have to work so hard now. I know that you are being nice to me. But you don't have to. Find someone who is more compatible with you.

M: I am nice to you is because I love you. It is not hard. The hardest part is that you are not home. That broke my heart. I want my husband back.

J: Look at our house, it is so messy.

M: Can you show me where the mess is?

J: You never decorate the house, I told you not to take piano lesson, but take the decoration lesson to make our house nicer. Look at all the cabinets, they are full of kids school works, they are ugly.

M: I thought that I was so proud of our kids. I didn't know that you don't like the work.

J: Look at all the dust, I am sick of it.

M: I will clean them.

J: I know that it is not fair to you if I leave now. I will give you some time. You are so down now, I don't like it. Go out to have some fun. I know that if I am back to you now, you will be better immidiately, but I can't now. You should have your own friends.

M: I had put all my attension to the family, I don't have friends.

J: I know you love this family and work hard on it. But you fail to keep it up.

Then he left.

After few minutes, the phone rang, he called me from the car.

J: I am sorry that I left. Why don't you take the kids out for dinner.

M: I already cooked. They are fine. I was playing game with them.

J: You are right, I should spend more time with them. let's go to places with them together.

M: That's good.

J: You know what, you never understood me. You don't know when I am happy and when I am sad. But I know you.

M: I do. But I just didn't know what to do to make you happy. S. Harley wanted to talk to you to get your perspective about me, but you didn't want to talk to him. So I did a questionare by myself. Do you want to hear what I wrote?

J: Ok.

M: The first thing is that you are not satisfied with sex. SOmetimes I didn't repect you.

J: We do have those moments. We disrespect each other.

M: Sometimes I made demand too.

J: Do you remember last time when my parents were here, we almost got divorced? You were so nice to me, then we didn't get divorced. But few months later, you were back the same old. I don't want to go through that again.

M: I really didn't realize you wanted a divorce last time. I thought it was the problem caused by parents. What did ot make you change your mind?

J: You were just becoming nice to my parents again. I still loved you that time.

M: That was not me. That time I was so painful and I didn't know where to get help. I turned to Jesus. That was the time I bacome a believer. Pastor Lee taught me to be nice, overcome the resentment. I couldn't do it myself without the love from Jesus.(Iwas crying).

J: It is always good to be nice. You are not generous enough.

M: I am working on it.

J: I arrived to work. you can call me, my cell phone is on.

M: Don't work too hard. I miss you.

That night he didn't come back till 4am.

Sunday, he disappeared again. But later he told me he was at work.

This morning, we had brief conversation again.

J: I thought you don't need sex.

M: That is not true. Women needs some atmosphere to do it.

J: For so many years, we have the atmosphere, you didn't like it. For so many years together, I only had few memories that we had good sex. First, we had good ones, then you claim that you had to write your dissertation, things just die down. Then we got married, you were the same. Only after last time, we were about to divorce, you were good again, but it didn't last. I was in my 20's and 30's in those years.

M: I am sorry to let you suffer. I really didn't know about that. I thought you were just being bad always thinking about it. Now I know after reading these books. I wish I've read the books earlier.

J: It is no use to go back.

M: You are right. But ...

J: Start over again. (sigh and slowly shaking his head).

M: I love you very much.

Thats all.

I tried to ask him to go out for llunch today, but he said he is too busy.

Please let me know what you think. People are telling me that I should go for Plan B. I don't know what to do.

Okay, he has told you he wants the house cleaner, so you can work on that. Check with flylady.com. Also declutter. It sounds like he does not like a lot of things around.

You can decorate very cheaply, and check out the feng-shue or however it is spelled.

The rest of his comments are fogtalk. Ignore it. He has OW, that is the problem with your marriage. So take this week to rearrange, clean and decorate. It can be lots of fun. Get your sister or cousin or a neighbor to give you ideas.
My neighbor helped me and all we did was declutter and rearrange things.

Hang in there. I think Plan A needs to go for several more weeks. But keep a list of JustJ's great advice for Plan B.

Just finished cleaning one draw. I think I am done with that today.

I think that my house is pretty clean. the problem is that it is too plain. I need some idea for decoration.

I keep breathing deep trying to get the bad feeling out of my mind. Cosin said: look, you are in good shape, you have education, you have a good job, you have 2 lovely childre, sister, brother, parents. You are in much better position than many others. The only problem is the your H is lost. He will come back. DO you best to make him feel comfortable when he is home. I am doing my best, it feels like no result.

Ask someone to help you decorate. My neighbor has a gift for it, and she came over and we redid things in just about an hour. I spent no money, just rearranged things. Find someone that has the talent, and get help.

Then you will feel good and be able to do some things for you. You need a break.

I will see who can help me with this. D just came home. But my bad feeling comes back. I really hate it. I will do a lot of things to get rid of it.

H just called. He said he will take few hours off today, and he is going to pick up S from school.

I feel nervous, I don't know what to do to make him feel good to be home. Please help me.

I would just clean and do my own thing, and let him have some space and time with the kids.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 16 or 17 years ago he felt different. NOW is when he feels like sex is a big problem, not then.

People get all confused about when their emotions happened. Emotions are pretty much always RIGHT NOW things.

It's your choice about Plan B. He's not treating you with respect and he doesn't seem to care about the damage he's causing. You can choose to suffer for as long as you want to.

Just J, I appreciate your concern. I really don't want to suffer, but on the other hand, I don't want the kids to have to much of trama either. I am debating myself.

I also pray for his return. Let GOD open his mind.

Last night, he was home. But not much interaction wiht kids. He took S home, then went to computer. D was fussy. He greeted D, but without answer. Then he went to the computer. he said he is hungry. After dinner, he felt asleep till 8:30. I dropped D to an event, he went pick her up. After I out the kids to bed, he was cleaning up the office. I helped a little bit, then went to bed.

I felt empty. he is still not emotionally connected with me. I will just have to keep praying. I will clean more today. Have tire rotations.

Well that sounds like a fun day, tire rotations and cleaning. Try to do something for you too.

I'm disappointed that he didn't spend more time with kids. I guess that was too much to expect.

Try getting a book on decorating to give you ideas. I put up two mirrors that I bought at a garage sale and it really changed the look in my living room.

Then I got a nice art piece and a little tree. Looks great to me.

Just finished tire rotation. I need to pick up some little thing in a store, but it is not open till 10:30. So here I am, sitting in the library. I may pick up some books for decoration here too.

I just read ChrityV's post. She is amazing. She is only a junior member, but what she said is so true, it is all you've been telling me. I am going to post over there.

Thanks for sending me there. That was great. I already referred a couple other people there.

You are welcome, believer.

Just got home. Got a book called Complete idiot's Guide to Decorating your Home. I cleaned out the pantry in the kitchen. I see that there are a lot to do in the house. But I still feel bad and empty. So I reread Christy's psoting, feel that I can fight with it.

I still feel extremly tired. But I need to refocus my attention to something else. I need to pray again.

Just talked to cosin. She said that she already told my in laws. They didn't like to see my family to break. Maybe they will start putting pressure on him. I will call them to see what they think.

Watch out for in-laws. They usually take side of the WS. Hopefully yours won't, but be prepared.

I know, especially I don't have a super relation with them. I do know that they love thier grand children. I will try to be unbias.

Just got a call from a client(I have a side job for mortgage), it gives me something to do besides my hurting time. I need to get more clients to make myslef busy. I was so busy last year and the year before. In Oct., 2002, I had a surgery for ovarian cyst, I even got calls in the hospital. But now, all are quiet down.

I hate this bad feeling. How long will the anti-D kick in. I've been on Celexa for 4 days now. I think that I need to pray again.

I checked it on-line. Should start working within a week. Hang in there.

Kids are home now. But S is not behaving, D is being critizing. She accused me not dicipline him. I am crazy now. I wish GOD send my H home, and kids are behaving. Am I asking too much?

H just called and telling me he is not coming home. I asked him where he is going, he said going out dating. That is big LB and disrespect. I think I am really ready for Plan B.

H just called and telling me he is not coming home. I asked him where he is going, he said going out dating. That is big LB and disrespect.
So? You are in Plan A.

I think I am really ready for Plan B.
Why are you ready?

Christ, Are you saying that I should be in Plan B?

What exactly should I do?

Christ,
Thanks for the compliment, but I can't compare in any way with Him... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
(yes, I know it was a typo)

Are you saying that I should be in Plan B?
No, I'm asking why YOU think you should be in Plan B.

What exactly should I do?
I think you shoul dmake an appt with Jennifer or Steve Harley (see below)

I reread Just J's post, and got some idea. How do I tell the kids?

Do I call all the utility to get his nmae off, and change to my name?

How about the money? Stocks? If I have his name off, willall the money be mine? I don't understand. I can take his name of my credit card, that is not a problem. Should I get a lawyer? All these details are killing me. I need a concrete palning. I want to save my marriage.

I am already in Plan A. I am also talking to SH. He told me to talk to him in 2 weeks. He also told me that my time is running short.

L&H

How are you doing? I just thought I would peek in and say Hi. I see you are still running in the muck the same as I am. Well I am here for you write me anytime. Do you have an email address? I will email you if you do. Thanks.

lostnhurt -

There is no hurry to make a decision of what to do. Please wait until your meds kick in. Yes, your H is being very disrespectful. He prefers an adulteress to a virtuous wife. That is his problem.

I think he is trying to make you mad enough to file for a divorce. Then it won't be on him. Settle down and have a nice evening with your kids, and work on redoing your house. He is getting more and more bizarre. I think there are things going on that you know nothing about.

If you must tell your kids, tell them that daddy is having problems and has decided to start dating again. Also keep letting the OM know what is going on.

Believer, Ny,

I am doing ok now. Neliever is right, he is trying to make me mad so I can file for a D. But I won't fall in his trap.

D was ver sad and mad. I think that her dad is not here making her feel that. But she told me that she wants a dog. She need something to take her attention away. But I can't afford to have it. I mean physically and financially. W/o H's income, I can raise two kids and keep their level of living, but no extra. I am working on my full time job and having a side job. But the income from side job is very unstable. I was able to talk to her and calm her down. She thanked me for talking to her. But I don't know how long this will last.

I will talk to in laws tongiht about H's problem. I will enjoy myself.

Your H will be back and his old self. But it may take a couple of months. Mine was completely gone for four months - no contact, no money, nothing. Then out of the blue he started coming around again. Now he is always nice - however still has OW.

If daughter wants a pet, get her some fish. They are nice and relaxing to watch and don't take much care if you have an aquarium with a filter. If you get guppies, they will even have babies.

Reassure your kids that you have a plan and are working things out. They are taking their anger out on you because their dad is not safe - he might have even less to do with them. Hang in there. You have done well for so long, don't give up.

Believer,

Where do you get all your wisdom. I feel like a stupid headless chicken when I was in that bad feeling. Now all the suden, I feel so good. I am able to pull myself out the situation and look at thing at a different angle. You are so right. It is not him anymore. This is some alien living in his body.

D already has a hamster. It costed $7. But the cage, accessary, bedding, food, and treats(?) may cost more than $100. One day, she claim that this hamster is too fat and may have heart problem. She wants me to take it to the vet.

Get some fish. When they get sick, you just flush them down the toilet!

You are funny. That reminds me when S was 4 year old, he flushed a turtle to the toilet.

I am getting ready to talk to in-laws. I will pray before calling.

lostnhurt-

Just be sure not to expect them to take your side. My H's family (including the kids I raised) took his side. His sister took my side, until I took the dog back to him and tied it on his girlfriends car. This was after H promised to come and take care of dog, and never did.

His sister can forgive him having an affair for a year, but thinks that me taking the dog over there was unforgiveable.

The only one in the whole family that supports me is my sister-in-law. She has gone through the same thing, and has been great.

So please don't expect too much.

Thanks Believer. I think that I will just inform them and not asking for anything. I am in musch better feeling now.

I will not expect anything. Even they press him, it won't do any good.

Didn't have a chance to talk to in laws last night. H came home at about 11pm. I was so tired and felt asleep. This morning I prayed and thanked GOD for giving me a good night sleep. I talked to sister. I told him that H told me that I may not be able to go to vacation with her because he said he may be too busy. It is nonsence. I will tlka to him again.

This morning, I found a not D wrote to her dad in the kitchen. WELCOME HOME DADDY, WE MISS YOU. XXXOOO, FROM YOUR LOVING FAMILY. P.S. I AM LEAVING YOU WITH HUGS AND KISSES.

I was so moved and couldn't stop crying. She did see him for 2 days. SHe leaves about 7am, when H still sleeping. I wish I could do more for her.

Just talked to H again about my trip. He said he will take care of the kids and let me go. He said that will you take your parents with you? I don't know.

Then he sent S to school. Tha is his job. he does have some time with S every morning.

I've been sitting here for a while. Noe I finially get up and vacume the house. Then I will clean the bathroom. After that, I am going to relax in the whilepool. I will treat myself nicely.

Last night when I put S to bed, he asked me a question. He said: when I grow up become a dad and have my own children, should I spen a lot of time with them? I said, what do you think. He said, yes. But daddy is not spending much time with us. I know this whole thing hurts him so much.

Just tell son that when he grows up and is a father to be a good one. My boys were raised with no father, their's left when they were little.

I have always emphasized to them how important family is. They have grown in to fine young men. They are kind and considerate and always thinking of other people. Although it was sad for them, I hope their experience will make them better fathers and husbands.

How sad it is for boys with no father. Buy you are so strong, Believer. I can imagine how much you've been through.

Last night talking to sister, she said that my life has been too easy. When I looked back, I really feel that I was blessed. GOD may have his plan now to make me a tronger person.

I grew up as the oldest in the family. My grades were the best. Everyone looked up me including siblings and friends. I entered college at age 15, continue grad school. Then I had my first boyfriend. Coming to US made us seperated. But I got everything I could, full schorlaship, health insuarance etc. Found my H now. Then i got my first job without looking. had D. Tired of the first job, then look for the job now by sending only 3 letters. I always felt that I was so lucky, even though relationship with H is not the perfect, but I accepted. Now a full blown. It is a mess now.

But I will look up at GOD. Have faith on him. Just be myself again.

Atta girl. You have a lot to be grateful for. Also you H has found a good wife. He will not last long with the homewrecker. Hang in there. Take care of yourself and get that house decorated. I changed mine around so much that my H hardly recognized it.

[ March 03, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: believer ]

I will clean my car, then read about that book to see what I can do. My heart is aching.

Your heart needs to think about something else. Please get busy on house decorating.

Thanks Believer. I will think something else and decorate my house.

I just can't do this. My bad feeling is coming back. I flip through the book, and still don't know what to do with the house. GOD, please help me.

I am sick to my stomach. I am about to throw up. Yuk.

I don't see what I can do to my house. It is so neat. Believer, let me send some picture of my house to you and get your opinion.

Can you post it on the MB picture page? Maybe someone else will have an idea.

How to post on the MB picture page. Where is that page. I will do that tomorrow.

I just asked a student's mom to help me. I will tutor the son, and she will help me to decorate for the tutoring.

I bumped the marriagebuilders picture thread up to the top under the general questions forum.

Great news about decorating for tutoring. I am hopeless at decorating, but friends pitched in.

Believer, I didn't see your picture. I am sure you are a very nice person.

Just got a fax from the travle agent. Sis already booked the cruise. I am going 4/23. I am going to have fun and recharged. hope that time h is back.

I will post soon, I have to get digital camera.

Kids are fussy again. D wants a dog again and crying. S is not listening. I guess that is just part of life. Some notes in the music. If it is too quiet, life maybe no meaning.

Yes, that is how life is. Of course your kids know "something" is going on. That adds to their tension and stress. Keep flying by the instrument panel.

This afternoon, H called to tell me that he is coming home for dinner. I told him that I need him to watch the kid while I tutor. Now tutor is over, it is after 8pm. He is nowhere to be found again. He doesn't answer the cell phone either. This is getting too crazy. I am really really thinking Plan B. Kick him out of the house. This is not my H anymore.

LostNHurt, you asked about how to do Plan B. The most important thing is to get you and your husband living in separate places and to arrange for how the kids will spend time with both of you. Can you please post here with how you would want to do those two things?

You said you can afford to maintain the standard of living for your kids, and that's good. Your husband will also need to provide support if they're going to be with you and not with him.

And no, you don't need a lawyer yet. It would be good to know who you're going to call if you need one quickly, but there's no reason to meet with one right now.

Big LB tonight. H came home at about 9:30pm. I asked him where he went. He said work(I know that is not true). I said why didn't you call? He said he forgot.

D kept asking for a dog. I told her that I can afford to raise one because I am in tight budget now. Of course we have some money. But I have to save it for emergency. I told her that if daddy promise a dog, it will be paid by mom. He did not contribute last month. But in the past all our money were together. Then she told H everything. He was angry. He said he hate me to tell the kids about these. I said that I am not confident to what will happen. I can raise them, but I can't pay anything extra. I don't like a animal running in my house peeing and pooping.

He told D that he will find a place that can have pet, he will buy one. I guess we are both ready to seperate. I am angry too. But I didn't show it. I hate him.

I have no idea how to seperate. Every morning, i send D to school, H sent S to school, if he is not here, i would have to both. That is one inconvenience. Every M. W., I work late, he has to come home to take care of them. If he is not here, who will do it? How do we seperate the money? Stocks?

I really don't want to seperate. Do I have any other choice?

Yes, you do have choices. Stay in Plan A.

I really don't know. I feel that my heart was eaten bit by bit everyday. How long will this end?

I apologize to him this morning. he said what you've been doing only push me away. I am very troubled now and confused. I said that if you are confused, make your decision after you are not confused.

But my heart is just aching. This terrible feeling is destroying me. Life is too hard. Do I have enough faith?

I am hurting so bad. I am going to take a Xenax and sleep. I hope that I can sleep for a year and wake up to forget everything.

Lostnhurt -
Your WH is confused. He will be back. You are very new to this and of course it is painful. Please try to take care of you, and develop a life that is satisfying without him. That will help you hang on until he comes back to work on the marriage. Put him on the back burner, detach, detach, detach.

Everytime the pain comes, or you think of him, make your mind think of something else. You can train yourself not to think about him. It gets easier and easier.

I am in training now. But it is very hard. I want to forget about him.

Just went to bed. But couldn't sleep. I don't know what this pain is. I don't think that I am thinking of H. Probably I don't like the stage I am in, don't know what it is, what it is going to come out, what the future will be. how to handle everything. Have kids to handle, etc.

I know that I shouldn't worry. i can give the burden to got. But these burden just like glue, I can't get rid of it.

L&H do you have email...I really want to email you about some similiar stuff in our WH. I am going through something very similar I just posted again on GQ II, for an expert because I am confused about what I should be doing. One minute I can't stand him and the next everything is fine and I love him to death. Do you know what I mean? I am waiting for Octobergirl, or believer or ARK to post me or anyone with experience for that matter. Let me know how you are today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ny, My e-mail address is kzmath@hotmail.com.

H just called and telling me that he won't come home for dinner. That is in my expectation. I already saw his reservation for tonight. I don't care anymore. I have to go to D's parent's conference.

OW's H called, but I missed his call. I don't know what it is about this time. I decide not to take it personal. Now I feel better, not as bad as this morning. I don't know how long this rollercoast ride will get easier.

Hopefully OW's H will call again. He needs to figure this out.

I hope you are trying to put H in the back of your mind and concentrate on something else.

Sorry to steal your thread, but I posted my Plan B letter in GQ II please take a look and give me your opinion. It is pretty basic from SAA. Thanks ladies and have a really great night. Take it one day at a time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ny, see my reply in your thread.

Just came back from the parents conference. I only saw 3 teachers in 2 hours. D was doing well, but she missed some work lately. Teachers were asking what is going on. I couldn't say anything. Maybe I need to get her for conseling. H of course is no where to be found. Actually, I feel good that he is not here. I will talk to his parents tonight.

You probably should let teachers know what is going on. Your daughter is hurting and maybe they will give her extra attention.

When you talk to in-laws, tell them you love your H and are devastated. Don't bad-mouth him. Tell them you want your marriage to work and can't believe he is running with a homewrecker that leaves her little ones and H to be with your H.

Just talk to D, she told me that she wanted suicide. She was crying. Poor kid.

Get her into counseling quickly. Or get her on antidepressants. She needs some help. It is not normal for a 12 year old to think about suicide.

Forget about your H and take care of you and your daughter. This feeling she has should be taken seriously.

She is already taking Zoloft. I think that I need to talk to the school conselor.

I think you need to go to a real counselor. Or get in family counseling. If WH won't go, you and kids go.

Your H is off with OW and meanwhile you are home miserable with daughter that is considering suicide. H cannot help right now. But you can improve things. This is an emergency. Tell your daughter that you are going to get help. Time for the experts to step in.

She was in real conselor before. She said that she doesn't want to go anymore. I will maek some calls tomorrow.

Get into family counseling. The counselor will help you connect more with kids, and let them know what is going on. You and kids need to go. You are extremely smart. Your family is in danger. Get some expert help.

Forget about H. He will probably deny there is a problem. Time for you to step up and take care of this problem.

You are very right. I told him that D wanted to suicide. He said if she said that, she won't. I can't believe how cold he is. I feel so hopeless. But I will get someone to talk to for family conseling.

Ignore your H, that is just not true. Most people who commit suicide talk about it before.

I had a friend at work who kept saying he was going to commit suicide. We all thought he was being dramatic. I did tell one of the other men to tell him to get counseling, but he never did. Then one day he took an overdose, 100 feet away from the emergency room in our shop. He died from it.

I went to his funeral and watched his 4 kids talk about how much they loved him. They were crying and broken-hearted. That day I promised myself that I would never take suicide talk lightly again.

This is not to scare you, but I urge you to get some help right away. It will show your daughter that you care and are going to do something about it.

I will definitely get help.

Check out effects on children under general questions. I hope we can keep that thread going, since so many are facing it.

I posted a new thread on general question. hopefully to get lots of help.

spiderslayer already has one.

Her topic is slightly different.

I am getting this bad feeling again. I hate it so much. I will get myself busy to get out of this state.

I am very sick now. My stomach is turning upside down. If I don't eat, I feel hungry, if I eat I want to throw up. I am shaking and hurting.

Don't get sick. Rest and take care of yourself and kids. Did you ever hear back from OW's H?

I am back doing well again. If this gets too hard for you, you might go to Plan B.

I think your anti-D's will start kicking in soon, though.

I don't want to be sick, but I can't help. I am going to take the kids to the mall, and then to a friend's house. Hopefully that will get me off this horrible feeling. I don't know about the anti-d, my heart is still aching. I think I need to go to Plan B sooner. It is killing me now. Is it better in Plan B?

Yep, Plan B is quite pleasant. You get off the rollercoaster.

I don't know how to deal with kids with Plan B. I still haven't talk to in laws yet. They are out of town this weekend. I will have to wait till Sunday night, or Monday morning.

Can I call you later about how it goes?

I just e-mail faith1 of my house photos. Please take a look. Maybe tomorrow she will post it.

I have to keep telling myself that I don't love my H, so I can feel better. Is this normal?

Please do give me a call. But I think you still love your H. He is still in the fog. All you need to do is forget about him for awhile. He will never stay with the homewrecker. Take care of you and kids.

I don't know about my H. I don't think he loves me. he is so CLOD! MEAN. He is not the same one anymore. Kids even don't recognize him.

Lostnhurt -

He is not the same man you married, but that man will come back. It will take some time though. You need to forget about him right now.

He cannot possible stay with OW and her little ones. He is all mixed up. If you are too upset, go to Plan B. Give him a Plan B letter and tell him to move out. Tell him you love him, but to preserve your love for him, you will have NC with him until he has NC with OW.

Then let him go his own way.

It is basically that way already. I don't know what to do with kids.

I just took the kids to Petsmart. We had fun looking at different animals.

Yhis is his 4th nights out. So he is out of the house now.

Believer, It was so nice to hear your voice. It is soothing. I had a good night sleep. He didn't come home till 1:30. I didn't say anything to him.

Now I am awake, my bad feeling comes back. I don't know why. I will try to fight with it. The anti-d is supposed to work now. I will give some more time.

Lostnhurt-

You are normal to be feeling bad. There is a lot of stress in your life right now. Your H is acting very badly, but will change back again. In the meantime, it is up to you.

Stop thinking about him.

L&H

You are where I was a month ago. Then WH left and I felt better. The only time I felt bad was when he came around. Plan B is hard, but I think you will like it better. You really do learn a lot about yourself and your feelings. I have also had fun with my kids since WH has been gone. It sure beats him coming in at 1:30 and me knowing where he was before he came to bed. Now I don't know and I almost don't care at this point. I am letting GOD take it from here, I am putting it on his list of to do things. That is really all you can do. You can't make someone change, they have to see themselves and make the change by themselves. Email me if you ever need to talk.

Believer and NY,

Thank you for your sopport. H took the kids to school(yes, they need to go to school on Sat. for language). I am home alone now. Just talk to cousin. She kept telling me that I need to feel good. Everyone is telling me the same thing. I pray and pray and hopefully I will feel better.

Now i even don't know what to say to H when I see him. I don't want to talk about the M, it is going nowhere. Besides that, there is nothing to say. So it is silent. Guess that is not a good realtionship.

l&H

You are losing all your love for him quickly. I would suggest doing something. Are you in a plan at all right now? This isn't sound good at all. What does Believer say? Should you Plan B?

Many suggest Plan B. But I am not sure. I am very confused. Also I don't know how to face friends either. Everything is so hard.

A couple of friends came over to visit. They were so surprised to see me losing so much weight. I even did know what to say to them.

Lostnhurt-
Tell your friends what is going on. Tell everyone. It is no good to be silent about this. And don't feel bad - WS is the one who should be feeling bad.

You are doing well for how long you have been dealing with this. You are very new. Remember I have been doing this for almost a year. That is why it has gotten easier for me.

I had a great day today. I went to garage sales with my son and let him practice driving. I got lots of plants, and some baby girl clothes. My neighbor has a friend who has a new baby girl. Her H left her, and she only has one outfit for the baby.

I got all kinds of girl things, dresses, blankets, sleepers, etc., most of them new. It was so fun getting girl things after having 2 boys.

Then we went to the reptile store to buy crickets for son's chameleons, then the camera store for film (he is taking photography), then grocery shopping. So I got most of my errands done.

Try to hang in there and get some activities going for you and kids. I looked for your pictures today, but they are not up yet.

Believer, It is nice to know you have a good day. My is boring. Morning, the kids not here, I did some house work. had a couple of friends visit. They came home at around 2pm. I took a nap. H is still sleeping, b/c he is out so often. But kids are boring, they don't want to do anything. I asked them to do things, they don't. So it is hard to deal with them. I hope they are happy. I am hanging here.

Lostnhurt -

Hang in there and keep doing things for yourself. You can't just sit around waiting for your H to wake up. When he does, he'll probably be out and about again.

How is your decorating project going?

Lostnhurt -

I just saw the pictures of your house. Throw away the decorating book. Your house is elegant and beautiful. There is nothing wrong with your house. There is something wrong with your WH.

Your pictures are on the MB picture thread on the last page. Also stop cleaning. It looks fine. You really need to stop accepting his blame. Go out and have some fun with some friends.

Believer,

H left 11pm last night for work.(I knew), He came back around 6:30am. Then he went to sleep leaving the cell phone in my room. I checked that there is a call he missed around 6:10am. This # looks very suspecious. So I used his phone to call back, it was a female. This prove my long time suspection. Another OW. this must be an indian women in his work. Some one mentioned to me before, he also mentioned it.

Then I checked the cell phone record, which just appeared in the web, the last call he made from his cell phone to the married W was 2/17. He called her 12am, and talked 38 min. I guessed after I confronted him, he stop going out with her. Then going out with this one now. I am hurt, but not as bad as before. Maybe the anti-D is working, maybe I am stronger. I need to treat myself well. I am going to go through this.

L&H

Your house is very nice, can I come live with you? LOL My WH left every room in our old farm house torn apart. In some rooms the insulation is showing around windows and stuff. He was really into renovating until OW came about. Now we are left with a total mess and no money to do anything with it. I have thought about buying the house, but now I am thinking about selling it and buying one that is one story and already finished. The thing is we dont owe that much on this house, and a new one will cost me so much more. Not really sure what to do. I wouldn't do anything with your house. It is very nice the way it is, and yes quit cleaning it looks great!

He may be seeing both of them. I don't know, but you are doing well. Your house is elegant, make it safe and warm for you and kids. Forget about H. He is out there right now. Just go on without him for awhile. Continue in Plan A, but get on with your life.

Believer and NY,

Thanks for your kind word. I mean my house is nice and clean, but he kept saying it is a mess. Now I don't care what he says. I will live in the way I like.

Today, when we left for church, he was still sleeping. Then we went to my parents after church. I want to visit them to fill out some paper. D has a project for interviewing senior. So we had dinner over there. Just came home. Of course, H is not here. We just went on without him. It still hurt, but less. I must be strong for my kids.

NY, if you are buying a house, you maybe able to get government loans. It is called FHA loan, check it out.

One thing made me feel a little bit down is that my parents even didn't notice any of my change. They didn't know that I lost so much weight. They didn't notice that I don't look too happy. I don't know when to tell them.

I would tell them as soon as possible. You need a strong support system for Plan B, for sure. That is JMO.

I would tell your parents. I told mine. They have been very supportive.

I had a great day today. My boys and their friends and I went fishing in the ocean. It was warm and we waded way out. In fact the boys went out past the breakers. I caught 2 fish, but threw them back.

I hope that you guys will go out and do things. At first I was going to stay home and work in yard, but decided to go and I'm glad I did. I know the weather there is probably not good, but spring and summer are coming.

My parents love me, they could be supportive too. But the problem is that they don't know how to be supportive. If they know that, they may be just cry. I have to think of how to comfort them.

Lostnhurt -

Did you read the Lighthouse post in general questions? That describes perfectly what you need to do now.

Yesterday I came home from fishing with boys and walked into my house (which was clean and welcoming - nothing like yours, though), and smelled the baked chicken cooking. I thought about how nice it is now, and how much WH must miss it. He is living in a rented bedroom. But that is what he chose to do.

So I will continue enjoying my home and my life. I wish that he would join me, but that has to be his decision. I will be okay either way.

You must just keep on keeping on. Take care of you and kids until he joins you again.

Believer, Thanks. I will be strong. I feel that I am stronger already. I will keep praying for more strength.

I still didn't have a chance to talk to in law yet, because he came home at 9:30pm last night. This morning, we had a little talk about D. But he was not concerned about her mood.

Finanally, talked to in laws. As beleiver said, they are not very supportive. They just said that we don't know what exactly happened, they will ask him what is going on. I told them that I just inform them the situation, I don't want to divorce. I am willing to work things out. They start lecturing me that you better think about what you've done to make him behave like that. Blah, blah. I thank them for lecturing me.

l&H

Don't feel too bad about it. Blood is thicker than water after all. I never expected more than that out of them. My MIL was pretty much the same way. The night I found out I called and I was crying and she cried with me and said what was he thinking. What about that little boy. And I told her I kicked him out. She called him on his cell phone and he told her he was at a friends house. He was at OW house actually. Since then I haven't gotten one phone call from them to ask how me and the kids are or anything. Even though she said I would still remain in her heart and we would do lunch and so on. She said although she doesn't condone what he has done, she loves him and she has to support his decisions in life. And that this must be what he wants. EWwwwww. Puke, gag, hurl. You know? If my son did this I would kick his [censored] up over his shoulders about a dozen times and make him go to therapy of some kind. Because I know I am going to raise my son to have respect and consideration for other people, including his significant other and when I am on my death bed, I will reinforce it once again. I never want my son to make anyone feel the pain I have felt at this time ever.

NY, I can see you getting stronger. I envy you. I never expect them to be on my side. But i just think that it is necessary to inform them the situation. If they can, they should talk to them to find out the story from his side. That is about it.

If my son would do this to his wife, I will do the same thing as you do. Now just take care of oue own problem. I am so tired of this whole thing. I feel sick any time.

Yes I can tell you are tired and worn out. That is how I got at the end. Tired and mentally exhausted. I actually hated him at the end. Plan B is working for me and I'm sticking to it. NC has been the best for me so far. You really got to wonder what WH is thinking though you know? Oh well, who cares right? He did this to himself. He came back and I tried and he still wanted OW, so now he can have her. Let her take care of him for a while. I needed a break anyway. LOL. Take care of you!

NY

Well, we're all in this together. I have had lots of support from my family, none from his. It is kind of sad, because I have always been very good to them. Too good, I think. But it is their loss.

I feel fortunate to have many support. GOD, my sister, cousin, friend, and you two, and many many supporter here in MB. I will hang in here and be strong.

[ March 10, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]

Chris, Thanks for your reply. I read the thread, but I still don't get a clue. I guess every situation is unique.

I am having this bad feeling now. On the other hand, I felt something is pushing it down. Maybe the anti-D is working. I just want to talk to someone.

L&H

You can email me anytime. I am here. Or post I will post back.

Ny, What is your e-mail?

Did you read Believer's bedroom warm up? It is cute. I wish I had a H like this. Now this WH is not mine anymore. How sad!

Lostnhurt -

I don't have an H like that anymore either, at least not with me. I'm just trying to give a hand to the poor guys here. I think we women have a duty to help them out.

[ March 10, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]

L&H

I have emailed you. You should get it. I have aol and I put my MB name in the subject box.

Ny, I didn't receive your e-mail. I will check again. Maybe it was put in the junk mail folder accidentally.

Beliver, are you out there? I am extreme;y exshausted. He is so cold. He was home yesterday. D was acting up again. He yelled at her. Telling her that she didn't appreciate what he did(he cooked) and staying home with them. This is so hard with kids acting like this. I know he is tired.

Chris, I read some of posts. Especially the one between feeling and logic. Maybe my H is having the same fight. How did you get over to stay with your W? How did she survive such a long term A? Did you tell her you want a D? I have many questions to ask. I want to know what is the best action now from WH's point of view in order to get him back.

[ March 10, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: chris37 ]

Chris, Thanks for your reply. THat is what I've been praying for. For my H to turn to GOD. Many people are praying with me together. He is so closed. He doesn't want to talk to anyone. I am hoping that he can open his heart to GOD. Let GOD's light to shine on him. Things may be turned around. I can tell he is struggling. But he doesn't open to anyone.

I don't have good feelings today. My bad feeling is coming back and I am struggling with it. I know that I should not concentrate on H. I know that. But I couldn't control myself. Oh, how long will this end?

I kept telling myself, look up to GOD. I kept praying. I do need everyone's prayer.

l&H

I am also having a bad day. I got a very sad card from my MIL. She misses us and thinks of us everyday. I will just cry the rest of the night away now, for I miss her also. We are here for you. I don't know if there is ever an end to the pain. I think you just build a wall.

NY, don't feel sad. At least you get a card from her. Cheer up. We all have to cheer up. I still didn't receive your e-mail. But I know that you are thinking of me, I am thinking of you. That is enough. Let's cheer each other up, we will go through this.

Ny, I just went out for a short walk. I feel much better now. This mood rollercoaster is killing me. But we just have to live with it. I constantly pray now. Praying is part of my life now.

L&H

I have sent three emails are you sure you gave me the right address? Glad you are doing a little better. I am too now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NY, I am glad that you are feeling better now.

My e-mail is kzmath@hotmail.com. Did you send to aol.com? I did not receive any, sorry.

H came home tonight for dinner, because D called him. She asked him to take her and a friend to a store to buy a b-day gift for her classmate. I thin that he felt guilty to put children through the trauma. So he came home. I don't think the A ends.

L&H

That is the email that I sent them too. I will try again right now.

Hey everyone, chin up. We can do this. It is miserable at first, but does get better. All my days are happy now, except that I don't have a car.

D and H just came back at 9pm. Guess what, he is gone again. He told me to go tothe bar to watch sport. he said we have no cable at home(I cut it because i didn't want the kids to spend to much time onTV). I don't believe it. But who cares.

lostnhurt -

Don't expect him to do anything. This is getting old. I think you need to start thinking about Plan B. The situation is getting too painful for you and your kids.

Check with Steve Harley. He is the expert. Let him know what is going on with daughter.

I am really hastated for going to Plan B. I know him. If I let go, he will be gone.

This morning, we had another talk. I told him to come home. He said he didn't feel like it. I asked him why. He said it didn't have the atmosphere, even D wants to get out. Then he asked me what kind of ideal H I have in mind. I told him that an H who enjoys family and kids, wants to do things with me. He said we have no common language. I asked him what he meant. He said that it is hard to explain. I asked him what kind of ideal wife is looking for. He didn't answer me. Ok, I said then what kind of things do you expect to me to make you happy. He said, in the future, he paused, then said, we had no future. I told him pretend that there is no future. He said, if you take good care of the kids that will make me happy. (Didn't I take of the kids?) You should make our house look nicer(again), I said what do you mean? He said that it is the decoration from your own.

Anyway, I told him that I want my H's heart back. He said my heart was with you the last 14 years. If you want it back, you got to be strong. I don't like to see you are so down, giving up your business, I don't like to see your face with no smile(Isn't that ridiculous, they punch you in the face and bleed, then they tell you that you don't look nice and not strong?). I said that I am strong, i got to be strong for my kids. He said, not for your H? I said that I can not control you, it is up to you. I will do my best. Then he sigh, we start over. I asked what do you mean? Start with whom? I know he mean we start over seperately. But he didn't answer me.

I decided not to let these things to hurt me anymore. No matter what the outcome is, I will just trust GOD.

I just read the lighthouse post. My mind was really cleared now. I thing that I didn't do a good plan A. I didn't change myself and pick up the confidence. Now I really know what to do. I will be myself and leave H behind. He will see my action.

That sounds good. It will really help you and your children. You will get through this, and it does get much better.

Believer, I know that was what you told me to do all the time. I didn't get it. It is still hard, but I know what to do now. I have a clear goal. Of course, i still need a lot of support and encoragement. All your prayers are needed. H clearly told me that he dosen't want to see me like this. I can't change him, but I can change myself.

My heart aches again, but it is normal. I will be strong. I will get better.

L&H

You can do this. I know you can. I just went the day with N/C and WH was here. I left S at my moms and went and did stuff for me. He dropped him back off at noon. I feel so much better than when he was coming here and I had to face him. It is easier and less painful for sure.

lostnhurt-

Check out ark's post to you in general questions.

Believer, I read it and reply. I am so grateful that so many people care about me. I know that GOD is taking care of me.

H is home tonight. I still feel that he is so distant. I got some business calls about mortgages. I was too busy to interact with him. But when I am not busy, I still don't know what to do with him. Do I make him feel bored? I don't care, I am going to concentrate on myself.

H is not coming home again. He asked me to take S to boy scout activity. I feel so sad, but I don't want to let it hurt me anymore.

LH,

I'm sorry I haven't stayed totally caught up on everyone's posts. How often is your WH coming home? Does he spend entire nights away from the house?

Just curious. Mine went from just coming home late most nights (at the beginning of the A) to actually staying all night with OW and only appearing at home one or two nights per week, usually very late in the evening, and usually just to pick up some clean laundry or something.

This was REALLY hard for me, because each night I'd hope and pray that this was the night everything would change, he'd come home, and life would start new. And each night would go by and I'd wake up alone in the bed the next morning.

I know I didn't do a good Plan A, partly because I got in too late on MB and partly because because of WH's alcohol, I was advised by many that Plan A was pointless. I still worry that I didn't build up enough LU's before he left and before I did a Plan B. And I share your fear that now that I've let go, he'll be gone for good.

That is VERY frightening to me, and I pray a lot and still think God has to be very disappointed in my because of my apparent lack of faith that whatever happens happens for a reason, whether it's the outcome I want or not.

However, my point (took a LONG time to get here, didn't I)--> There is relief in not having them living at home and doing the crap they do. At least now I can go to bed and not wonder if he's coming home, or if he does, how tense and uncomfortable it may be. That has made my nights and my sleeping SO much better. I don't take the over-the-counter sleeping pills anymore since he moved out.

LL

L&H

LL is right. I know Plan B sounds scary and for me it did too. The thought of not seeing him for even just those few moments that I did get to was scary. But I feel like a 1,000 lbs have been lifted off my shoulders. Half the time I don't even think about him at all. That is the reason why I ripped his posters off the wall in the garage. I want to park my truck in the garage and not think of him. And now I can. I have to make changes that help me and forget about him and that is what I am trying to do. Be strong, I had to be and I was the most devastated person in the whole world. I almost committed myself to the hospital because I didn't know how to deal with the pain. I have never been in pain like this before in my whole life. I would say that it is worse than rape, and I have been raped. That is just my experience though, others may not think so. I think it hurts so bad because it is the one person that you trust in the whole world that it hurting you, the one you took vows with in front of family and GOD. I hope you can find peace within yourself and try to move forward in life. I am praying for you.

NY

Hang in there ladies, it's gonna be a rough ride. Plan B is very comforting to me. I hardly ever think about my WH, and when I do, I now have nice memories of him. That's pretty scary!

OW's H called me up today to check if I was okay. He saw my van parked in driveway all week and was worried. He has been such a lifesaver to me. My WH could care less.

Ladies, Thank you for all your advice. Just came back from boyscout meeting.

Actually I am feeling GOOD. My sister also told me that I should let go, she mean mentally. I don't expect, I don't care when he comes home or not. He already established a pattern himself, whenever I can stay home, he will be out. But if I told him that i have things to do, he will stay. I really don't expect, when he was around, I even don't feel comfortable like last night.

There were few nights in Dec. he was out whole night. Since I confronted him the first time, he always comes home, sometimes till 1 or 2 am. But lately he comes around 11pm or earlier, which made me disappointed:). Because I wanted to talk to my sister or friends.

Believer, thanks for your concern. D is better lately. I don't know why. I am still loking for a conselor for her. The school conselor said that she will find a reputable one. So I am waiting. I guess because WH spent some time with her which made her feel better. That is one of major reason I don't want to go to Plan B.

I feel better. I think that I pray for strength from GOD. GOD did send a lot of help to me. The lighthouse psoting really woke me up. I need to work on myself and make him see that our home is worm and welcome. Another reason maybe the Clelexa kicks in. I can sleep overnight now. I can eat normally, I feel that I gain back a couple pounds already. I am looking forward to the cruise in April. Just like sis said, I have to live like he is gone, no big deal. I can handle all the things.

L&H

Your doing good. You listen to ARK. Very intelligent advice. And take care of you, because no one else is going to. Hugs

NY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks, NY. I will take the kid to bed. Talk to you later.

lostnhurt-
Please get a counselor soon for your daughter. Your H is deeply in the fog.

Have you heard from OW's H?

Believer, I am getting a conselor for D. I want to get a good one. The one she was with was not good. She didn't want to go back.

I didn't here anything from OW's H. I think he is a jerk. I don't want to talk to him. I am going to hire a PI to find out things myself.

Hi, Evdryone. I think that he is moving out.

I just found a costco receipt from his wallet:

Sofa,
King mattres
Other daily items.

Somebody, help please.

Breath. Pray. If he is moving, you will survive. I didn't think I would. In fact there were times where I HOPED I wouldn't. As you can see by my typing, I'm still living and breathing.

It is hard. My WH decided to move out, then chicked out at the last minute while touring the apartment, and at that point I decided he needed to (may not have been my brightest moment) but basically talked him into signing the lease.

I'm still scared to death my marriage won't come back, but having him out of the house is not as hard at night as wondering where he is because he's NOT at the house.

LL

LL, thanks a lot. Lots of people telling me that it is better in Plan B. I just got to be strong. Someone help me to write a Plan B letter. I feel like dying.

The very best thing will be if he does move out of his own free will. Then his little fantasy will end. He will realize what he is missing. Please don't take this as a bad sign. It could be very good for your marriage.

Stay calm during this time. Tell him you want what is best for him and let him go.

Oh, Believer, you finally come in. I've been praying, reading the Bible this whole morning. I feel ok, but not totally. Your words sooth me. I feel like I am sinking again.

This may be the answer to your prayers. Sometimes we don't know how things will be worked out.

OW may be leaving her H and he may be helping her, or it could be for the love nest. Who knows? If WH moves out, be calm and tell him you don't want to split up family, but realize you have no control.

At least their little fantasy world will be broken up, and the truth will come out.

Believer, I am gathering my strangth. I hope that it is GOD's answer. I know that GOD has his plan which is best to me. I will be as calm as possible.

Good. You just don't know what they will do, or what God's plan is. My H suddenly came back to reconcile after I heard nothing from him for 4 months. They are lost. But you need to be strong for your marriage and family. Women have been strong for thousands of years. You can be too.

I feel ok one minute, and feel bad the other minutes. I keep praying for peace. I wish there are some sleeping pills to put me in sleep for years and wake up to forget everything. GOD help me.

L&H

That is exactly how I feel. I wish I could just sleep and wake up when its over sometimes too. It is better in plan B. I promise.

Oh, NY you are here now. I feel crazy today. Did you read my earlier posts?

I guess i will have to go to Plan B passively. I am weak now, i think I will be strong again.

bump

L&H,

I wish there are some sleeping pills to put me in sleep for years and wake up to forget everything.

I told my doctor almost that exact statement last time I saw him in December. I wanted a magic pill to put me to sleep for years and when I woke up, I wanted everything back to normal again.

He thought that would be great money-maker for the drug companies if they could come up with one.

LL

LL, How are you doing now without the magic pill?

My heart aches. I kepr praying and reading the Bible.

L&H

Me too! I am all alone today and I am cleaning and painting the house red (or trying to anyway). I hope you are feeling better. It is hard to feel good all the time, or even part of the time when you are going through this. Remember if nothing else live life for you! Not for anyone else, just you and your kids. That is what I do every day.

I feel much better now. H is sleeping again. He is like a dummy when is around here.

He is supposed to help S to work on the Pinewood derby car, but he is sleepin

Don't expect anything out of this guy. You will only be disappointed.

No, I don't expect anything from him. He is not my H anymore. An alien invaded his body.

He is gone overnight. Believer, you were right, they will do many many things to hurt me. I don't feel good now, but I will be ok. I prayed for peace.

You sound better today. Now he will come home and sleep half the day.

Try to hire a PI.

Actually, I don't feel good. But I know that I can be let down by his act. I don't care he come back to sleep at all.

All i want is to feel good myself. Later I will go to church. I need to talk to someone. Maybe call sis.

Believer, I feel that my M is over. I feel so hopeless and helpless.

lost,
How long have you been in Plan A ?
I'm praying for you, giving you strength to feel better today, stronger, not so sad.

lostnhurt -
No your marriage is not over. Your WH will be back, you just have to give it time. You are still too new in this. He is addicted, that is all. It will be awhile before he gets out of the fog.

lostnhurt -

As a follower of Jesus, if you have obeyed, trust in Him, and asked for help, He is already working for your good. Just keep up your relationship with Him. Quit worrying about the outcome, let Him arrange the circumstances that need to happen. He has promised that He will answer your prayers and it will be for your good.

Thank you friends. I admit that I am so weak. I will really have to look up to Jesus.

Just came back from church. It is my turn to teach S. school for the kids now. I didn't have cahnce to listen to the message which I need so much now.

Please keep banging me on my head.

L&H,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Please keep banging me on my head.
<hr /></blockquote>Okay, here's the deal. You sound a lot like me sometimes (though not nearly as psychotic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). It is your responsibility to get out the MB 2x4 and whack me up side head when I'm being silly and need it, and I'll try and do the same for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there. I am hurting really bad, too. I do know now you feel. I'd like to just go beg my WH right now to come home and hold me, even if it is the wrong thing to do. But I'm not going to do it.

I just got back from church, and our sermon series all this month is about how to have better relationships (mainly focused on marriage here), so it's really tough for me to listen to because of my lack of a marriage right now. I'm trying to apply it to other relationships, like those with my kids.

LL

[ March 14, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

LL, I know what you mean by beg your H to come home and hug you. I think that is all we want. But we won't do it. I won't do it. At least I pretend to be strong in front of him.

When I prayed, I asked for peace, patience and strength. I also prayed that i will accept whatever outcome it is, because HE knows what is the best for me. I know that it takes time, it is this time the worst and hard to past.

lostnhurt -

Lately I have been at peace. I do believe that the Lord is working for my good. I have not seen WH for about 10 days, or heard from him. But I still have the feeling that He is working on a plan.

Believer, I want to have peace. Maybe I am trying too hard. I know that I will feel better in the evenings. Maybe b/c a day is about to past.

I want to call sis, but she is out to be with her BF, they didn't see each other for 2 weeks. I don't want to spoil her time even she said it is ok to call. I called cousin, she is not home. Sometimes I feel that i am alone in this whole world. I know it is not true, it is just my feeling. It is so hard to fight with your own feeling.

As everyone knows all too well, I've really blown the no-contact part of Plan B by way of phone calls and text messages since I tried to implement it, but I haven't physically laid eyes on my WH since the night I gave him the letter. It's been almost three weeks since I've seen him.

It is hard. I'm not patient. And time sure feels like it drags right now.

LL

LL, you are doing fine. I wonder how you take care of kids without H? How did you kids react? Mine are upset today and kept asking where dad is.

L&H,

As far as kids go, I may be in better shape than others. My WH has never been all that involved in child-rearing. It's been a sore spot off and on, but I've always been the primary parent.

Also, mine are teens, so unlike younger kids, it's easier to explain why dad isn't here. They know. The hard part is that they're really bitter right now toward their dad, so if he and I do get a chance to try and rebuild our marriage, I am worried that the kids might stick a knife right in the center of our plans.

My biggest challenge right now is that my DD has a LOT of behavior problems. They were a part of what, I believe, stressed my WH out and made him more vulnerable to the A, and of course now that we're in the situation we're in, she's REALLY acting out badly. This is very difficult for me to deal with as a single parent with no support. There are days when I'd do about anything to have someone else helping me out.

But my heart goes out to everyone with young children, because they don't (and shouldn't in most cases) understand what is going on. All they know is Daddy or Mommy is not home and they miss them.

LL

LL, my kids are 8 and 12. S is 8, he did care about much his dad. But D has some emotinal problem. She has aniety disorder and been on Zoloft for almost 2 years. She was better already by Dec. But now this whole thing triggers it again. She is very hard to deal with.

L&H,

I as a person who has anxiety disorders and who has a DD with serious behavior problems have sympathy for you and your DD.

And as for the zoloft, though I'm not a believer in having kids on meds if you don't have to, if it works, that's great. My DD took it back in 6th grade for about six months for what the Dr. thought was mild depression stemming from her ADHD and it really did make a difference. She even said to me toward the end of her time on it that she felt the difference.

Now she's so stubborn and off in her own world that she refuses to take meds. No zoloft, no strattera for the ADHD, no anything. I know she's REALLY hurting and REALLY angry and she needs help, but she's also REALLY stubborn (no idea where she might get that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) and wants help from no one.

Keep praying. Let us know how you're doing.

LL

Ok, I have a long one today. I couldn't help loughing.

H disappeared, still not home till 6:30pm. So i called MIL in CA. I told her who the OW is, what I found in the receipt etc. Of course, she lectured me a long time, telling me I should be a good wife. If I am a good wife, OW would not come in. I agreed 100%. Then she said her S's in fog(how smart!), he lost himself. I have to be nice to him to get him back. She will back me up. SHe said she will talk to him about it. She didn't want to see our family to break up. She believed me will change. Given the relation between us, i praised her action and encouragement. I do think that I love her now. Our conversation last for about 1.5 hours untill WH walked in. Then we stopped(not because he was here, it was about time to stop). When he saw mehung up the phone, looked at me very strangely.

I adjusted my mood adn act happily. I asked him whether he had dinner yet, he said no. He is caughing really bad, I told him to see a DR. I also asked him whehter he wanted to eat something, he said no. But I made rice soup anyway. He went to the computer again without interacting with the kids. About 9pm, kids were getting ready to bed. It took me almost ano hour to settle them down. Wh went to his room. So I called the other friend to talk about how he should approach WH and talk to him. And he walked in, I told him to call later. I looked suspecious again with these mysterious phone calls. Then S walked in, he said he couldn't sleep, I took him back, spent 10 minutes with him in bed. When I came back to my bedroom, Wh was there. He said I need to talk to you. I smiled at him and said ok calmly.

WH: You are very happy today.

Me: I know, because i need to be happy and you want me to be happy too.

WH: Yeh. But you are happy because you seemed to know many things. You succesfully controlled me.

Me: What do you mean?

WH: Don't pretend. You know where I went, what I did. You spied on me. You checked on my wallet, my phone bill. You are so deep and you pretend to be innocent.

Me: I asked you where you went, what you did, whom you were with, but you didn't tell me. I have to find out by myself. It is my right.

WH: Why should I report everything to you? Well, you have your right, you are still my wife. But you tricks are so dirty.

Me: (I was angry, but I controlled it) What do you mean I am dirty? I just found out the fact. I prefer you tell me, if you don't, I find out myself.

WH: You are not being honest. It is over between us. I can not trust you.

ME: (I almost chucled) Who is being not honest? What did you do these days? Where did you go last night? What did you buy the other day?

WH: I just need a place to think about things. I want to be alone. I don't want to see you.

Me: So you think about things in a King bed(guess this was LB). Who did you go with to buy those stuff? You missed S's boy scout meeting to buy these stuff with whom?

Wh: Well, I did not have enough money, I borrowed friends credit card.

Me: you have credit card. When you bought two packs of underwears, you need to borrow credit card too?

WH: You are so cold tonight. You became very strange now. I feel like I am talking to a stranger now. There is no more between us. We are going to D. Let me go.

ME: I don't want a D. It is not good to the children.

Wh: You are not happy, I am not happy. D will make both us happier and we can be friends(what kind?).

Me: We can be friends now. Just be open and honest.

WH: No, if we are couples, we can't be friends. You are very mean. You want to destroy me. It is like if you can not have me, you can not have someone else to have me.

Me: Who wants you? You are my H now. Someone else wants you, is that right?

WH: Don't do anything to harm OP.

Me: Who is OP?

WH: You know what I mean.Youc hecked on the phone bill. You don't like me to call. I don't call now.

ME: That is someone else's wife. It is not appropriate to talk to her like this. You call her midnight, early morning, so many time a day.

WH: Why not, we just talking. She called me too.

Me: That is inappropriate.

WH: There is nothing between us. I went out to bars, movies with some Indian friends, some are men, some women. But all together.

Me: It is not right for you to go out so late, not home for dinner. Kids missed you.

Wh: I spent time with them.

Me: You know D's mood is not stable. S starts acting up. Because of this situation.

WH: Because I want a D. When do you want me to move out?

Me: I don't want you to move out. But if you do, I can not controll you. I can't use a rope to tie you up.

WH: You are so cold(he mean i didn't beg hime to stay).

Wh: Let's get a D.

Me: Why?

WH: We are not compatible, house is mess. I told you to quit piano lesson, to take decoration class. But you didn't listen. Look at the kids room, they are so messy. They all learn it from you. You don't like to eat meat, the kids learn from you too.

Me: Tell me where the mess is. I will do it. I will not clean the kids room, they can do whatever they want in their rooms.

Wh: Look at our bedroom.

Me: Anything wrong with this? There is not much funiture here.

Wh: Look at that lamp. It is so old, you never thought of change it.

Me: I thought it is an antique. If you think that can cause you to have a D. I will change it tomorrow.(I almost laughed)

Wh: You are so distant to me, you pretent nothing when I went out and came home. You just pretent. You don't care.

Me: But you just said you didn't want me to ask. so i stop asking. Anything wrong with that?

Wh: I am tired. Your H's heart is dead. Let's talk tomorrow.

Me: Ok. I don't think your heart is dead. It is somewhere else. Good night.

I hugged him.

What do you think? He is so contradicted to himself. I couldn't help laughing.

These guys are unbelievable. But you did excellent - only one LB about the bed. You said all the right things - now let him think about it. And congratulations for not laughing out loud.

L&H

Sounds to me like fogese. I had many of these conversations with my WH. We did everything from I didn't feel needed to we are heading two different directions in life. I got every excuse in the world for him to be with her. And even though I broke Plan B yesterday with my letter, he is still with OW as far as I know. I do not check ever. Eventually their passion will burn out and I know it, but I have an unfortunate feeling that I won't be here for him anymore when that time comes. I love him and always will, but I love the man that he was before all this happened and I don't know if I can ever see him in that way again. I am in IC and I go again today. I pine for my H from before and my life from before. I don't really want him now, I just have to get over him. Withdrawals.....and then move on. When I think of them together it makes me sick, and she is so beneath me I don't understand it. I have many hard feelings which makes Plan B good for me because I would probably take a baseball bat to him if he came somedays, esp for hurting my kids so much. We will get through this. With or without them, just remember that. I divorced once from an alcoholic know it all, and I can D from a cheater also. I seem to be a bum magnet, always have. I thought I had it right this time, but I guess not. I will work on me now and then in my next relationship whether it be H or someone else I will be a better partner.

Hugs.

NY

Thank you Believer. I knew the bed thing was a LB, I couldn't control it. It was so hard not to laugh out loud. I told cousin this morning about our conversation, she was laughing too.

NY, I know how you feel. We always have our ups and downs. Go to IC, this old relationship is over, you will build a new one with your H. That day will come.

I am feeling good today. Even he said those mean things to me. I woke up 3am and couldn't fall back to sleep. But I am ok now. I am reading something in this website: www.dearpeggy.com, also check on www.thirdopyion.com. It is very helpful.

Just for fun, I would store that lamp away, and buy a brand new expensive one in its place.

I will go to Tuesday Morning tomorrow to buy a lamp. Haaaaaa.

Lostnhurt -

Please bear with me. I am old and getting confused.

I am trying to understand why your WH is behaving as he is. There are many possibilities that you have mentioned. Here is the list:

1. You have not decorated your house. (Although the pictures you sent look great)

2. You have an old lamp in the bedroom.

3. You cannot be trusted. You keep trying to find out what he is up to with OW.

4. You are a vegetarian. You still cook meat for him, and lunches, but you do not eat meat.

5. You are not wild enough in the sack. You have been a virtuous woman, haven't had numerous sexual relationships, and keep your marriage vows.

6. You are a good woman who is concerned about your children and family.

So I guess if you let me know which one is true, I will be able to help you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I think it must be that lamp. Why else could he possibly act so strange? You know....we didn't see the lamp in the pictures, did we??? Hmmm....

LL

(L&H, your house looked so nice by the way, that I think I should send YOU pics of mine and ask for decorating help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

LL- That must be it - the lamp - lostnhurt is so sneaky, that she did not let us see a picture of the lamp.

I think so friends. You are so nice. It cheers me up today.

This morning I had this bad feelings again(I don't see any trigger). I was praying so hard to eliminate it. Reading your posts make me feel a lot better. I think that is one way GOD is comforting me.

Now I know what makes me so upset. The credit card bill is here. He was using my credit card to buy the opera tickets and went out for dinner that day with OW. I didn't say anything to him. I feel so betrayed and angry.

I hate this feeling. I will do everything to get rid of it.

Tried to go to Tuesday Morning for new lamps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But store was not open. I guess i will but the new bedding and pillows to make over the whole room.

Now I know today is Tuesday, it is my schedule fall down day. Give me a good excuse to not feel good. Just kidding. I will feel good.

Thinking of everyone here. Hope everyone have a good day.

L&H,

I agree, why just replace a lamp when you can redo a whole room.

Just wanted to let you know, not that it means a lot coming from a person with so little faith sometimes that I'm not sure my teeny prayers are heard...

But I prayed for you (and Believer, and SS and NY and some of the others I talk to regularly on here) last night. I also prayed for our WH's--that God would continue to work in their hearts for us, too.

Take care.

LL

LL, thank you for the prayer. I did the same too. I am thinking SS for her conseling and prayed for her to get good results. I don't know how I can live through this without friends here. I know that GOD led us here.

L&H
LL

I also pray for you ladies every night, I honestly do. I pray for SS also. I dont know if my teeny prayers are heard either,even though they last 1/2 sometimes, he must get sick of hearing from me. I think the Lord did lead us here to be a comfort for each other. I have no intentions of getting my WH to ever come home, so I am just going to lean on you and keep going to IC to be strong so I can raise these two wonderful gifts god has given me by myself. Hopefully someday when I feel better I can share my life with someone again and be a better partner. I can't file for D anyway because I would have no health insurance and I take several drugs everyday that are very expensive. If I didn't have WH health insurance it would be about 500.00 a month at the pharmacy. I have IBS and I take this one drug that is new with insurance it is 30. without it is 194. for a month. So since D isn't an option I am figuring I will wait it out. I have given my WH until Sept. if the fog doesn't clear, I'm outta here. Hope you all are having a fine day. It is snowing like heck here in central NY and I am not loving it one bit. Ewwww yuck! I hate snow on my flowers.

NY

NY, just sit still and wait. GOD is listening to our prayers. He has his schedule. I do believe whatever he gives us, it is the best for us. I think that the financial part could be solved too. GOD will have an answer to you.

We are going to have 1-3" snow here too. I think it is ok. I like it.

Back from shopping now. When I am done changing, I will post a picture. I do it for myself, not for WH!

You go girl - but do it for yourself. I bet something else will be wrong - the toaster or something.

Believer, I happy you are here. How is your day? I am still a bit down, but i am ok. Just tlaked to cousin. But she will be leaving soon, back to HK.

Hi all,

We end up with 15+" of snow yesterday here in Iowa. Yes, this IS Iowa, and it snows here, but usually only 4-5" at a time where I'm located. This one broke a few records, especially because it came so late in the season. At least it should melt quickly, but I hate it, too. I'm ready for spring.

I think you're right--we do help each other get through this. NY, keep having hope. You never know what will happen. I'm glad you can give him until September for the fog to clear. I'm so impatient! I want my WH's fog gone NOW! And I do very poorly waiting.

I'll post to my own thread over in GQII in a little while. I did a BAAAAAD thing last night. I definitely broke the Plan B that I've done such a crappy job being in anyway. On the good side, I think it at least earned me a few LU's in his bank. On the bad side, I blew 3 weeks of not seeing him. I just CAN'T seem to get this right. Talk about weak and no willpower!!

LL

LL, Enjoy the snow while you can. But you know spring is close. Just like our life, we thought spring is here, a storm blew it off. But no matter what, spring will still be here. Let's keep our hope.

Try read what ARK post to me. I don;t know what I should do. Am I not tough enough?

L&H

What nationality are you? I sense a little accent in your writing like you are from another country, it is kind of neat. I am glad you went shopping. Remember to do things slowly and the way you like them, not rushed.

NY

NY, you are right. I am Chinese. So is Wh and OW, and her H. Yike.

WH is home early today. One resaon is that he is not feeling well. NAother reason is that it is snowing here, his car doesn't drive to well in snow. So he comes home to sleep now.

I set up the bedroom. He saw it and told me the lamps are good. But the bedding are too red. I thank for his comment and told him that I want some warm color in my bedroom.

Well you could go buy new bedding. But maybe it wouldn't be the right color either. Then you could go get another one..........

I was looking at Believer's earlier post. An idea--just confuse him by getting a new toaster or something and then if he complains again about the bedding, sell him on all the toasters neat features! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LL

L&H

Where do you live? It is snowing here too. 6-12 inches in NY. I hope things get better for you soon. I will pray for you tonight. I have to give my son a bath so I will be off for a while. Try to have a good night if you can. Hugs.

NY

You ladies are very funny. You are right too. I don't care what he said, I did it for myself. He doesn't sleep in my room anyway. Why does he care.

NY, I am in Michigan. I will pray for all MB friends too. I was not used to pray. Now It became my life, like breathing the air.

Believer, how did your day go? Did you change your lock yet?

All my MB friends, good morning. We had snow here overnight. It looks pretty outside. Just wish the driving condition is ok.

You ladies can really predict what WH can say. He complained again. I had a very caual conversation with him this morning. We were talking about snows between east of Ohio and W. of NY. Then all the sudden, I said, are Ohio and NY connected to each other? I sort of forgot. He immediately commented: PA was between them. Don't you remember when we drove through? Of course, you won't know, b/c you always sleep while I was driving. I guess that is another excuse for D.

But this guy is giving you valuable information - now you know that you just needed new lamps, a not too red bed cover, and to stay awake when driving through PA. I think we're going to be able to figure this out!

Hey, stay awake while driving through PA. What a great phrase. Of course, I need to be awake when he is DRIVING through PA now.

Haha - You got me there. This is really brightening up might morning. It is so funny what some of these WS's say.

Believer, I gald that we can find some humor from this ordeal.

I love to read your posts. I read everything you posted. You are great. Hope you have a good day today. I am busy preparing my classes now. But I will check once a while.

lostnhurt - How are things going tonight? Are you enjoying your redone bedroom?

L&H,

How has your day gone? Are you feeling better yet? Have you done any more redecorating? (Would you like to come to Iowa and help ME redecorate?)

Is it still snowing in Michigan? Our 15" of snow has melted down to about 6" now, and I think in another day or so will just be a bunch of mud (great fun for my dogs to run through in the low spot in our back yard and then in the door and onto my beige carpet before I can stop them.)

Check in later tonight and let us know how you're doing.

LL

Maybe she went out to buy a new toaster.

Friends, good morning. Thank you for all your concern. I miss all of you. How are you doing?

H was home last night using the computer. I didn't have a chance to use it. By the time he went to bed, I was already asleep. I had a long day yesterday. I need to talk to people when I don't feel good. SO I talked to cosin and sis. It helped a lot.

Yesterday evening, WH was supposed to come home before me, but it ended up he came late. he said why are you so early. I said b/c you were late. He said I don't feel well. I ended up cooking dinner, help son do his hwk. He was yelling to son agai, S told him to go away, which made him REALLY mad. He said, you all want me to go away, I will not come home anymore. We all just turn ourdelf around, no one was paying attention to him. He kept saying to hel S to make his Pinewood Derby car, but it is still a piece of wood sitting there. He isolate himself again by sitting in the computer whole evening. I kept praying this whole thing to be over soon. I prayed for all of you too.

We have light snow here. Today there is another inch or so.

Just went to the employee benifit fair. Got a free massage.

WH just came home, it really suprised me. But he said he is not feeling well and went to sleep now. I don't know what is going on with him. But I have to pick up D now.

Sounds like he is not too much fun to have around. All of the deception must be wearing him out.

You mean he can actually sleep with that awful lamp and that bedspread that is too red (or whatever was wrong with it)?

LL

LL -
I think he sleeps in the other bedroom, but doesn't want lostnhurt to have too much red in the bedspread. But he does want her to have the new lamps.

Also the pinebox derby car is still only a board. Maybe lostnhurt is sawing away tonight.

Good morning, ladies. Your humurs always lighten up my day.

You are right, he is not much fun to be around ANYMORE. He is wearing out!

Here is what happened yesterday. Went to cosin's at noon for lunch. She said she talked my in laws again. MIL was really worried about her son. They tried to call him and left few messages to him, but he vever answer they calls, neither called them back. He is afraid to talk to his own parents now.

Then I came home at about 1:45pm. D was supposed to come home by bus at 2:30, but she called asking me whether I could pick her up a little bit later, b/c she wanted to do her homework at school. Around 2;30pm, WH came home, he said, I was waiting for D by the bus stop, but didn't see her. I told him what happened, he went straight to sleep. I gave him a little massage, at first he refused. Then he let me. I was joking about the massage I received today, telling him it would cost $1/min. He said do i need to pay you. I said ok, either pay me money or give me a massage. For about 10 min, I stopped. He almost fell asleep, I said you didn't pay me. He said, I already spent all my best years with you. I asked do you regret? He said no. I said me either. Then I went to pick up D.

After picking up D. She told me she had a concert in the evening where she had to arrive by 6:30pm. I said why didn't you tell me earlier. She forgot. I prepared a good dinner. 5:30, he woke up. D asked him why the whole family never showed up for her concert? He said because your brother didn't like it, I have to watch him. That was not true, when he was not around, I took S to the concert, but I didn't say it yesterday.

At 6:10pm, when we got ready to leave, D said I don't have black pants, UH? Then she couldn't find her white top. Finally she found it in the washing maching. She almost cried. I said you just wear it, it is not dirty. We will go to K-mart to buy you a pair of black pants. There we were, with 15 min, we had everything.

Then I called WH telling him that D performance were between 7:30-8:00pm. He can just come for this period of time. But he didn't show up. After the concert was over, he called. He said he took S to the hobby shop trying to buy an already built Pinewood Derby car, so he didn't have to make it(I almost dropped my jaw). But S didn't like it, so he had to make it!

What a night! When we got home, it was almost 10pm. I had the kids do CHinese homework. They finally went to bed at 10:30pm. I was exsuhsted. He was in the computer again.

Since he is not honest about the A, sis suggested me to write him a letter to ask him to talk about it. SO I will try to write one some time, I will psot it for opinion before sending.

What happened with the idea of hiring a PI?

I am still thinking about hiring PI. I have appointment with SH this afternoon. I want to talk to him about it before any action.

I am sure he will go out again next week when he feels better.

NY,

Hope your appointment goes well. I've been thinking of making one myself. Not sure they'll be able to do much because of WH's alcohol issue, and I know he won't participate, but might be worth it for me.

As for the PI, I agree with Believer. I'd do it, if they can tell you for sure what he's up to. It's too hard just wondering if there is or isn't something really going on.

I'm actually contemplating hiring a PI, if things don't work out with my WH breaking it of with OW before long, to find out OW's mother's name and address so that I can contact her. (These are things my WH knows but obviously won't tell me.)

I'm not doing it right now, because it will only push him further away, but if he sits on the fence forever, I might have to let OW's mommy know that the guy she's hanging with is really still married with no intentions of D (especially since I found out her mom is a nice lady who goes to church and sings in the choir. She might not like the situation quite as well and it might turn up the heat a bit.)

Keep posting!

LL

I am talking to SH. I will post it after.

Ok, just got off phone with SH. Is was very helpful and encouraging. It is long too. But I have to go pick up D now who has a dance party after school. I will post to you when I have time.

Talking to SH is fun... but it's not action.

I have a question for you, lostnhurt.

Are you here for shoulders to cry on, or are you here to learn the actions that you must take in order to change how your life and marriage are going?

L&H,

I am curious how the sessions with SH go? Do you come out with ideas of what to do, or reassurance of hope? I know all of our situations are different, but I'm curious as to how they go.

And how long did it take for you to get a session set up? Is there a long waiting list? Like I said, I'm seriously considering it, too.

Especially after the rollercoaster just took a big nosedive on me tonight (partly by my doing, most likely, for asking the wrong question at the wrong time).

It's too bad we all live so far away from each other. I think we could use a good hug from each other now and then.

LL

JustJ-

Please don't be so hard on lostnhurt. We are all at different stages in this pain. You are doing very well, but some are not. I was a complete walking disaster for the first 3 months after I found out.

Let's give our fellow BS's a break. Let them work through this like we did. I know you are an expert, but please remember how you felt when you just found out. Hugs to you, girl.

I agree with Believer.

I do come here for advice. I don't do the best following it, but it doesn't mean I don't want to.

However, I do also come here specifically for support (a shoulder to cry on, someone who understands my pain, etc), too. This is one place I feel like I can go and express myself and others will understand what I'm feeling, because they've been there in their own way. It's a tiny way we can share each others' burdens.

LL

[ March 19, 2004, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

LL and lostnhurt -

Yes we are all here to share each others burdens. Some of us are further along than others. But we will all get through this together.

We have to believe that the Lord has a miracle for us. Although we can't see it right now, he is working on it. We are hopeless, have given up, are completely lost. But Jesus came for the sick and broken-hearted. No matter how bad it seems to us, he can redeem our marriages.

Ok, I finally have some time to post. But not all. First of all I want to thank all of you to be supportive and listening.

Believer and LL, you guys are great. Thank you for your confort.

Just J, thank you too. I know you are an expert. I come here for a shoulder to cry, which is extremely important to me. I also come here for advice. But I have to adopt the advice that is best to my own situation. I know your concern. Imagine if I take all the advice here and put them in action, what kind of results will I get, many of them are contraditing each other, that is why I am confused too. But keep giving me advice, someday it maybe useful. We don't know what is right or wrong now, only GOD know.

LL, it is not hard to get an appointment with SH. I called Thursaday, and got one on Friday. It was like that last few time. he did give me hope. I will post later on what he tell me to do.

I want to tell you that H and I had another talk last night. Given that this whole week he didn't go out at all. He was with us whole day today. My brother is coming over from Canada to take my mom over, I send her to half way, so the kids can meet each other too. So I invited him to come along. He said ok. So this morning, we all got up to go to Chinese school, after that we picked up my parents and drove to Canada. My brohter;s family and us met in a restraunt for about an hour, the kids had good time too, even though itwas short. Then we dropped my dad back to his appartment. After that, we went grocery shopping and just came back about an hour ago. Now he is taking S out to buy the paint for his car. BTW, H took half day off yesterday to be home with S, they shape the wood into a desired shape already. I took D to her piano lesson last night.

Last night, after kids went to bed, H was still in the office infront of computer. I came over and gave him a hug. He started out talk:

H: You really don't like I went overnight outside, right?
Me: Of course not.
H: Why?
Me: Because I love you, I want you to stay home.
H: It is boring to saty home, we have no cable(cable was cut last year b/c kids watch too much, I think I should reintstall it).
Me: You can have fun to be with the kids. Why don't you ask me what I like, instaed of what I don't like.
H: Ok, what do you like?
Me: I like the whole family to be together to do things. As long as we are together, I am happy.

H: It is very BORING.

Me: What kind of fun do you have when you go out?

H: I will go to the bar and watch TV.

Me: Do you think you will be happy like this for the rest of your life?

H: I don't know. But at least now.

Me: I know that you are not happy. Do you want both os us to be happy?(SH's technique)

H: Yeh.

Me: How about we go to some seminars to listen to others for that?

H: Ok.

Me: Then I am going to sign up one.

H: You can go by yourself and come back to teach me.

Me: It doesn't work that way. It takes two to be in a marriage.

H: I don't believe it.

Me: It is getting late. Let's go to bed.

H: Ok. (He was going to the guest room. I invited him over, he came)

H: This bed is really nice and confortable.

Me: Thanks.

H: We are in divorce, why do we sleep together?

Me: We are not. It is just your imagination.

H: It is ok not to have a D.

Me: ?

H: But you got to let me go out and don't ask.

Me: No, it doesn't work that way. This is something I can not tolerate.

H: I know you've been very nice to me these few months. I can feel it. But I don't know how long it can last. I feel that it is not from your heart.

Me: It is reasonable for you to feel that. Maybe I ignored you too much.

H: You don't have to work so hard. I know that I hurt you.

Me: Be nice nice to you is not hard at all. What is hard is that you leaving me. The things you did hurt me.

H: I am not so good, why do you still love me?

Me: I know you are good, that is why I love you.

H: I may do something hurting you. If not the kids, I 've been gone.

Me: I know, that is why I love you. I don't like something you did, but it doesn't mean I don't love you. Just like for the kids, I love them, but I don't always like the things they did. D is not good for the kids, not good for anyone around us. Let's find a way to make our M better, then everyone wins.

H: I don't know. Just for kids to put two incompatibel people togehter?

Me: We maybe incompatible. But we can work it out to be compatible.

H: It is hard.

Me: I agree. But we can work it out.

H:(Sigh)

We wer holding each other. I long for this affection long time. Then he said:

H: Are you sleep now? I can't sleep in my own bed. I have to go back to my pig stile.(don't know the spelling).

He is home. Talk to you guys later.

Sounds very promising. It is good that you can talk to him so calmly. Just keep it up, you are making progress.

It is nice that he is trying to spend some family time. I think I would get cable again. You can monitor the time the kids watch it. That way he knows that you are listening to him and trying to make him happy.

Believer, I think we are moving a little bit forward. We had another talk this morning. He agreed to go to the MB weekend seminar.

I will do my best. When I have time, I will post more about SH's suggestion and our talk too.

l&h - Thanks for clarifying why you come here.

believer - Thanks for the reminder to be gentle. I'm not, sometimes.

l&h - I hope my question didn't hurt you -- I honestly wanted to know why you were here. I see a lot of pain, lots and lots of it, in your situation. I don't like seeing people in pain and not doing anything about it. Most people don't have to suffer as long as they make themselves suffer.

I hope your husband can change. I hope you can change, too. I hope you can both change in ways that you can be happy together. There is a chance for that.

Oh, and I don't think of myself as an expert in this stuff. I speak well, and to the point. But if I were an expert, well, I'd be in a different place myself, I think.

JustJ - You know we love you. But some of us are a little slow getting it.

Also different cultures play into the problem. Lostnhurt is American-Chinese. I have read statistics between different cultures. People of Asian roots have a lot of trouble wondering if they are doing the right thing or not. They have traditions that are much different than the rest of us.

Lostnhurt is very brilliant - went to college early, but she still has problems being able to stand up to WH and make the right decision. Please bear with her.

Believer and Just J, thank you both. I know that Just J wants me to do things right too. But I have to weigh all the different methods in between. Only myself knows the situation better.

H and I had another long talk this morning. Even thught he is gone again now. He's been home for the whole week, he told me he will go the bar to watch basket ball game, which I don't believe. I told him to go with him, he just flet from the house. But I will have some time to post and talk to friends here.

Here is a brief of what Sh told me.

1. I am doing good for Plan A. He said that there are 3 side affect of a good plan A. Feel like a doormat, unfairness, enabling(A). I feel all of those.

2. Right now, M is the ist priority, A is sencondary. A is the symptom of a bleeding M.

3. Now I have to figure a way to give him the sense of hope that M can be recovered and better. I have to educate him, and stand firm on the point of looking the option for a better M.I need to repeat all these ideas over and over for the next couple weeks.

4. Seperation and Plan B are last resort for me. If all the aobe fail, then can consider PI and seperation. ut it is too early now. There is no use for the evidence.

5. As long as I do things that are not on my expensex, I should continue Plan A. I should address his unhappiness and depression while talking.

So in this mornings conversation, I followed along SH's idea. H still told me for moving out, I said again that he has his own choice, but I don't not want to. I said that I can't tie him with a rope, I am not strong enough, even with all 3 of us(kids). He laughed, also said that even I can hold his body, I can hold his heart. I knew that. Then I start talking about the option of having a happy M and going to seminar. He said that I can go by myself and tell him. I said that I read the books and website, I pretty much know the concept. he let me tell him about it. So I started my long lecturing about all the basic concepts, his needs her needs, love busters etc. I also told him about the examples in the books are exactly like where we are. He got intersted. I also told him the solution other than what we did. He seemed to be more interested. Finally, I told him that the seminar is in SF, CA, where his parents are. The kids can see grand parents. he said ok, go ahead to book the tickets. I told him that the tickets costs about $270 each. He said, if it works, he will pay even if it is $2700. I was so trilled.

Then we started talking about our feelings. What happened to us. I told him that he hurted me a lot of his recent behaviors. I aksed him whom he went with to the concert and dinner on the day of D's conference. He was so suprised. How did you know. I said it showed on the credit card. He said he went with a friend. I said who? I don't want to tell you. Is it a male or female. I cried. I said that it really hurts me, you should have gone to a concert with me, and you are still married, you went to concert and dinner with another woman. He said sorry, but I went to some with you. I told him that he hurt me. I also asked him if I did the same thing to him, like going out at nights, going to concert with OM, what he would do. He said, i would D, I don't understand why you still love me after I've done so much. I told him that I love him, I want this family, all the pros of staying married etc. he finally said again, so let's not get a D now. I said what do you mean? Not a D now, but a D a year later? He said I don't know.

Then he asked me losing how many pounds. I asked him to guess. He said somewhere between 10 and 20 lbs. But you look nice now. I told him that I couldn't sleep well now. He said you were not like this before. Do you know how many nights i want S, but you refused me and slept. I couldn't sleep, I had to go downstairs to sit in front of the computer, only come back at about 5am. Then you woke me up at 6. You never knew. I was really sorry to hear that. I told him that too. Then he said you need to go to church now, let's talk later. I invited him to go along, but he didn't want to. But at least he read a Christian news paper I placed by the toilet.

I was prasing GOD. I know I need keep my expectation low, but my faith on GOD high. Please keep me in your prayer.

L&H

You are doing good. This all sounds positive to me. Do all you can before you enter a Plan B, it is very painful in the beginning. I will keep you in my prayers.

NY

Ny, and all my friends,

I just book the tickets. We all going. Kids will stay with grand parents.

But I also read about the weekend. It requires a lot of follow up work and committments. I am afraid that he won't do it. But I will keep praying.

That sounds great. Even if he does not do the homework, at least he will be exposed to some new idea. Also the fact that he is talking to you so much is very hopeful.

I took it as positive sign. But I can't put too much hope to it. He is out again. Talk about addiction!

You seem to be doing much better though. I think he will start changing fairly soon. He has too much to lose.

He came home about 12:30am. But he didn't come to my room to brush his teeth and went straight to bed. I made some drinks for his cough and left a note for him in the kitchen. This morning, I found the note with his thank you, even though he didn't drink it.

I talked to him briefly, he said he was too tired last night. He said he will drink it this morning. I just said that I hope you come home earlier, it is not good for your health. Then I left.

I recall something happened on Saturday when we were in the resatraunt in Ca. We met a guy woh were in the same college about 20 years ago(H and I went to the same college in MI). This guy is also Chinese. But he was famous about A's. He was living with a lady while his wife was in China. Then later broke up with this W, and D with his W. Then many many more. On Sat, we saw him with a girl in 20's. So our Sunday morning's talk included that part. He said look at him, he is so free, changing GF all the time. I asked, do you like that life style? He said, no, but he is free.

I think that H really feel Trapped. How do I make him not feeling that? How do i make him not feel bored?

H just called and told me that my mom called and she wanted me to pick her up in Canada. I said what? He said, just kidding. But she called, and wanted you to call back.

I really feel that his sense of humor is coming back. He was so much fun before, and he lost of his sense of humor for these few months. I can see that it is a little like him now. We can talk calmly and peacefully now. I keep praying.

That is good. Remember that this is a long war, with many battles. In the end I think you will get your real H back.

Your WH does not realize what an empty life it is without a family. He is not seeing the most important thing in life right now.

Believer, thanks for your reminder. I know it is long and difficult. It may go two steps forward and 1 step backward. But i need to trust GOD, and have faith.

How are you doing today? I was thinking of you the whole weekend. I tried to call you last night, but your line was busy. I think you must be on line. I hope you feel good now.

lostnhurt -
Don't worry about me. I am doing mostly fine. I'm just kind of grieving the marriage. But all in all my days are very good. I no longer feel the terrible pain and sadness.

Believer, i am glad you are feeling good now. I am getting to this stage now that my good days are more than bad ones now. His behavior does hurt me, but I am not being knocked down anymore. Your encouragement is a big help. Thanks again.

My feeling today is auwfully strange. Kind of numb, calm and quiet. I can not use the word peace. I feel like the quietness before a storm. I hope nothing will happen. I will keep praying. Try to call around to talk, but no one answsered.

Talk about how I felt today. Wh is gone again. He came home and made dinner, took gabage out, then he disappeared again. I guess he wants to make up the time he lost last week. Because he was sick, he had to stayed home the whole week.

Wh didn't come home till 3am. I asked him where he went, he said to a movie. What kind of movie run till 3 am? Anyway, I couldn't sleep whole night, the bad feeling comes back again. I am having headache, and diahhrea. Yikes.

Today is my down day. I am not feeling well at all. Physically and emotionally. I had pretned him to be gone for a while, but last night, I couldn't. So I couldn't sleep the whole night. With that, I had headache and diahhrea(sorry). I hate all these happening to me. But I am up now. I am going to cook and do my tax.

I am doing my tax now. But I really don't feel well at all. My heart beats so fast, I am shaking and dizzy. Is this anxiety attack?

LnH,
it may be an anxiety attack. But I'm not a doctor. Have you ever had one before ? You may have a cold or flu, or stress related illness. I don't think it would hurt to call your doctor.

Let us know how you feel.

Probably - Try to relax. Have you eaten anything today?

Thank yo for your concern. I think I will go to bed and relax. WH's disappearance last night
may contribute to this.

I don't think I can do this tax anymore. Is is tedious. My accountant told me to fill out all the information in the form. So I figure it out just to do it myself with the software. Just had some soup. I am supposed to send D to violin lesson this afternoon. I may have to call H to send her.

You can do it on turbotax.com. It is real easy. They walk you through the whole thing.

I was doing my tax on Taxcut. It is not hard, it is just to tedious. There were a lot of stock transactions and my business too. But I am half way done.

I feel worse now. My hands and feet are cold, but no fever. And the bad feeling is bothering me too. I am praying for peace. I don't mind the physical pain, but I hate the heartache.

How are all my MB friends doing? Believer, I hope that you are doing fine today, another good day for you. I know that SS is making progress. NY is doing well in her Plan B.

I am still not feeling well. Wh came home to take care of the children. But he even didn't look at me. He asked how I feel, that is. I know that I shouldn't expet too much. How can I not?

Hang in there. Are you doing anything for you? See if WH will talk to Dr. Harley. He does wonders with WS's.

L&H,

I just read that you'd been feeling sick. Are you feeling any better? Whether it's anxiety or the stomach flu, it didn't sound pleasant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I do think about you and the others who post on here and I am excited when things go well and my heart goes out to you when they're not going well.

I feel rather stupid at the moment because I've done a lousy job of my own plans and have frustrated many people on this board so am backing off a bit until my session with Jennifer (Dr. Harley's daughter) tomorrow night. Perhaps she can point me in the right direction and help me with what it takes to stick with it.

My only problem is money. I can only afford a couple sessions with her.

LL

LL, thank you for your concern. I am feeling much better today, still tired, but I am at work. I think about all of you too.

Believer, it was nice and soothing to talk to you last night. After talking, I felt asleep right away, peacefully. After confronting him, I felt a lot of peace in my mind. I will post in the genreal question about whether to call OW. Thanks a lot.

The rollercoster ride is on again. These bad feeling comes back. I think that I have to concerntrate on the instrument panel, not to look outside again.

L&H

I hope you feel better. We are all rooting for you here, pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

NY

NY, thank you for your encouragement. Believer is really haelpful too. I thin that I just don't feel well pysically. Today there are 3 meetings, I almost fell asleep in those meetings. S had half day. parents are calling for help, not big things and urgent. But they think those are urgent. They don't drive, don't speak English. Everything drive me crazy.

S have a conference this afternoon. They are practicing following instructions. Parents have an assignment. S wrote the instruction for coloring a shirt on paper. Me and H had to do them seperately but following the same instruction. We ended up 2 totally different shirts. From that I can how different we understand things and view things.

L&H, I'm concerned for you. This mess is affecting your health. How can you get yourself out of it? It is not hard. Just write your plan B letter and get him out of the house. Then you can sleep and eat and not be sick.

Just J, Thank you for your concern. I am still hanging in here.

Getting him out of the house is my last resort. I can't funtion without him being here. I don't have any other relative here besides my parent. They are about 30 minutes apart, they don't drive, they don't speak English, they are my burden too. Like couple days ago, if he is not home taking care of the kids, what am I going to do? It is really a practical matter now.

At least I will wait to what happen at the MB seminar. I will go to a cruise with my sister prior to the seminar. My summer schedule will be very strange too. I will teach 3 evenings and Saturday. Who is going to take care of the kids if he is out? At least now, if i tell him that i have to go to different functions, he will stay home. I am going to more and more of these function so he can stay home more. Next week, I will go to a Women's dinner, Friday, I will go to a Fraternity dinner, Sunday afternoon I will go to some student's honor convocation. Just to get myself busy and have him stay with the kids, not OW.

Hang in there lostnhurt. I think things will get better for you. You just have to do the time, almost like being in jail.

After awhile the hurt won't hurt so much. It is miserable going through it, but does not last forever.

By the way, how are your kids doing?

Believer, thanks for your encouragement. Kids are ok. This evening, S had a parents conference. H and I went, it ended at 7pm. H came straight from work. After the confence, H left again. He said he would go back to work. Do I believe him? Of course not. Believer, you are right, I feel numb, the t doesn't hurt that much anymore. But my temper went short.

On the other hand, if he is here what is the difference? He isolated himself, he did not participate. In addition, I can't use computer to post. We have 2 computers, and his lap top all connected to internet. But I can't post infront of him. But now I am free. I will have to take the kids to bed, then I am free.

Still feel so down today. My arm and legs are so tired, like I've been in the marathon for years. This morning I had a very brief talk with him. I told him that it hurts me when he went out, I cried. He said that if that hurts so much he can move out so i don't see him. I said no. He said we've better seperate for a while, we are not suitable for each other. I just cried.

Then all the negative thought came to me while I was driving. I wanted to die, I want die in his arm. But how about my kids. Now I understand why people took their kids with them when they died. If I do that, he will be left GUILTY for the rest of his life. I know that I should not do that, especially as a Christian, I even should not think about it. But satan just came. It is my weak moment. I will have to keep praying for more patience and peace.

I am feeling way way down. OW'H e-mailed me back. He is still denying. he said there is an Indian girl at WH's work. Which i knew about. What is going on this world? Wh told me he watched the opera wiht another W., that was her. GOD please help me. I am crazy now.

I am reading Awed's link to a FWH's post. I just feel so hopeless at this moment, I can not control myself. I am crying so hard. But I have to go home to take care of the kids. Why am I not stronger? How to feel less pain?

L&H,

Hi there girl! Wuz up? ok first things first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There I hope you can make the effort to smile and see the positive in your life right now. You have beautiful kids and your parents are still alive and your H is still with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Ok i know that sucks that he's there but you don't feel he's there that's why it's important for you to learn how to detach detach detach...do you have that link if not let me know I will forward them to you.

Look they do the same thing over and over, my partner went out last night and didn't come hm til 12:30 AM which was early to his stds. Before that he called me and told me he and his buddy are going to a party, i was pissed off but didn't show it over the phone but after I vented here...see my post...and then prayed and controlled my emotion until I fell asleep. He came home all sweet and nice and I did feel it was a legit night out but the good thing is I was able to hold back my LB, if not I would have gotten the same thing your H told you..that he'll move out if you can't take it.

To make the story short girl, I woke up with a detached attitude but still kept my sweetness towards him and though he's thought of moving out before this morning he said I can't do it i care 4 u so much and i'll miss u... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Ok, maybe just sweet talk but it seems to be working, accdg to our good frd Awed, it's the key to Plan A, no LBs and no control, no timelines either make them come to you don't force him...now if there's still another girl or OW maybe a long heart to heart is in place. But don't LB!!!

Btw, did you read the post yesterday or the other day re. "What I learned from my counseling?" oh it's so good I'm making it my creed. if you can't find it tell me as I've saved it.

Hey it's a nice day here in Chicago, beautiful a bit cloudy but warm so that alone is a blessing, do something positive for yourself, stop obsessing about your H, he's a big boy now common, focus about YOU and he'll take care of his own problems. That's his problem so let him worry about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> When he's ready then he'll come back to you, meanwhile detach and enjoy the day, your kids even attend to your parents, cmon it's not that bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ok kiddo, I'm praying 4 u today, forget about H today, worry about you and your health and the kids! Do some shopping or walk around downtown just forget about H ok? Do some gardening too.

Lots of love and prayers and hugs!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

BF

L&H,

My heart goes out to you right now. Seems like you are strong when I am not and vice versa. I am actually feeling a bit more calm right now, which is odd considering I'm actually weaning myself off my Xanax (the tranquilizers) to see if they are what are making me extra nervous and jittery.

I'm sure I'll be calling on everyone starting tonight to help me survive again, because it's the weekend and weekends are my really tough time.

As for your thoughts, if they get too bad, PLEASE see a doctor, but as for random really strange thoughts, I've had them, too. Awful things. We just have to keep reminding ourselves (and each other) to keep praying for strength so that we can keep going.

I know that when I have a day or two where I feel like I just can't take any more (and I have a LOT of them), it seems like right after that something will happen that will lighten my load for just a little while. I pray that happens for you today.

LL

[ March 26, 2004, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

Bf and LL, thank you friends. I read a lot lot here, in awed's link about a FWH. It made me feel better. Your care and concern made me feel much much better too. I know that i have to detach from him. I know what I have to do in Plan A. Sometimes we are just weak, fall short. I pray that I can be strong again. Thank you sisters. My prayer goes out to you too.

Lostnhurt, you are still suffering and now he's talking about separating. If he leaves, you will still have to figure out what to do with the kids. If YOU decide, you have more control over what happens.

- You can tell him when to be with the kids even if he's not seeing you.
- You can get a babysitter.
- You can get your parents to watch your kids.

Don't say I can't. Say "how am I going to"? Then think of small steps to get there.

You can do this, lostnhurt. I know you can.

L&H,

Still hanging in there? Just checking in on you.

LL

LL, I am still here. Thanks.

Lostnhurt -
Sorry I missed your call today. I went out with 2 friends to the garage sales. I got some nice things for the house.

The trouble is my decorating is going two ways. I started with seascapes because I live right by the ocean, but then I started getting asian feng-sheu (sp?) stuff. But I love it. My friends are coming over this weekend to help me out.

I'm into a very simple look and am getting too many things, so we will go through and weed things out. I love artistic things, but have never had a good eye. My friends can take junk and make it look beautiful.

How are you doing? I hope you will get busy taking care of you.

L&H,

How are things going today? Are you feeling any better? Was just thinking about the beautiful pictures of your house, and then reading Believer's post about redecorating and certainly wish I had the two of you here right now to give me some ideas.

My place needs a facelift. It's looked the same for the entire 5 years I've lived here, except messier now that it was in the beginning.

However today there is no energy to do it. This is the weekend--my down time. I'm trying to stay calm, but it's raining here in Iowa and it's dreary and that doesn't help. Not sure what I'm doing--lots of things that need done but I don't feel like doing any of them.

Do you have anything fun planned for the weekened, with your kids or anything?

LL

lordslady - Get busy. What I do is first spend 5 minutes picking up 50 things - and I count them. Then I spend 5 minutes in each room - I time it.

I have 7 rooms, so it takes me 40 minutes all together. I do that each day. It is easy to do, because you know you don't have to do the whole thing at once.

Believer,

I've been cleaning my rear off all day now, and have the main floor looking decent (DS still has to vacuum tomorrow--his job). I think if I shine the sink, things down there look very presentable.

The upstairs still needs help in a big way. My room is a catch-all, and I'm in no mood to deal with it. My bath--not bad. Kids bath and their rooms--disasters!!! But I'm not touching them.

So here I sit. It's dark now. It's still raining. Kids are both out with friends until late. This is the hard part. Twiddling my thumbs. No friends to do things with. No appetite. And I'm not sleepy since I didn't drag out of bed until noon, so can't just go back to bed and escape. Just me..and my dogs..and my cats..and my turtles..here in my quiet house.

L&H,

Did you do anything fun today? You've been very quiet!

LL

Believer and LL, thanks my friends. I am doing ok, even he is out again. He just called me and told me that he is not coming home tonight. I told him that we always wait for him to come home. He didn't say anything.

This afternoon, we all went to S's boy scout car racing. It was fun to see all differnt designs and their speed. Then D started whining, so h sent her home first, S and I stayed longer to watch all the race. Then he came back to pick up us.

It was a nice day today. After coming home, I suggested to take a walk with him, he refuse. So I walked a little bit by myself. Then I suggested to go to movies, he said I can take the kids to. I knew that he was going to go out. But we went anyway, we saw Cheaper by the dozen, it was funny. It made me feel sad too. Because they have twelve children, the father rather sacrifies his career for the family. Now my Wh wants to leave the family. When we came back, of course, he's gone. He just called to tell me he won't come back tonight.

OW'H e-mail me again, he still did not believe what i said after all those text messages and receipts. He said that the credit card # was his. But he believed his W's explanation. She said she met Wh at costco, she paid for it to get renate from her credit card, he paid him cash. That was one of the version Wh told me. Come on, how much rebate do you get for $20? They get up to 2% per year. Was that a reasonable explanantion. The time on the receipt was the time we had dinner in a friend's house. This guy is really dump!

L&H,

I just responded to your post on my thread before I read this one.

I'm sorry to hear your H isn't going to be home tonight. I know how lonely it is, and how difficult. I wish none of us had to go through this pain. No one can understand it unless they've experienced it. I just pray that on the other side of it, we are able to see something good that came out of it (hopefully, of course, that would be our WS's coming back to us and our marriages being restored).

Well, the rain is picking up now and it's starting to thunder (another "trigger" for me, because I used to love lying in bed with my WH, listening to it rain). I need to find something to do with myself to keep my mind off the loneliness.

As always, you are in my thoughts and prayers. Do something else fun with the kids. I think if mine were smaller (and home), I might even just go lie in their room and listen to them sleep, after they went to bed.

LL

LL, just read your other thread. Thank you so much. Stay on borad, you won't be lonely. I am reading Awed's link about detachment and doormat, Try to learn something. Remember, we can not change our WS, but we can change ourselves.

LNH,

I just stumbled onto that same post by Awed. It was really good! I went to both links, the one from the WS and the one about emotional detachment and copied both to Word documents so I can reference them later.

I am SO emotionally attached to my WH. I know that's why I'm having such a difficult time, and why I'm not letting God help me like I know He can. But I always thought of detachment as "pulling away" and I was afraid. It doesn't appear that it's that drastic.

There is a statement in the emotional detachment post about saying "STOP(your name)" to change your thought pattern. This was actually something also learned from a Christian therapist shortly after 9/11, when I had a bad bout of anxiety. It does work, if you apply it. I also got to the point where I memorized a few of my favorite verses from the Bible, and when I found myself letting thoughts get the best of me, I'd bring a verse to my mind and keep repeating it over and over.

Seems I need to get back into that practice again. And I think it's true, if you get up and do something physical, it breaks the thought cycle, too. I find I have the most pain when I'm sitting here alone doing nothing, or when I'm at work late in the evenings by myself, where it's not exactly practical to go do something physical.

So with that said, I'm going to force myself to go out in the rain (I'm sure I won't melt) and get a couple things I need from Target, then maybe pick up something and force myself to eat it, and then I'll come check in and see how people are doing on here again.

Take care of yourself. Too bad Michigan and Iowa are so far apart. We could load up your kids and go out for something good to eat to keep us both occupied on Saturday nights, until our lives calm down.

LL

You could always meet in Chicago. That's about halfway in between. I bet you'd have lots of fun. (And you could go put TP all over my ILs' yard and porch while you were there, too!)

LL, I read those posts last night. But I did not have time to post. OW's H called. He asked me to give himt him the evidence and asked me what to do. I told him to expose. But he was so scared.

This morning, I talked to MIL again. She said that her son is not playing a fair game. I didn't talk to her too long, I went to church. After church, I was sopposed to go back to work for a short meeting at 3pm. When I came home, I didn;t feel well, guess it was stomach flu again. I took a nap. It was alreay 4pm when I woke up. I felt so tired and sick. The meeting must be over too. So I stayed home finished all the tax, finally.

Wh came home this morning at 11am. So I couldn't go to the computer too much. He is sending D's friend home now.

So sorry to hear you're not feeling well again. Maybe it is the stress that is lowering your resistence to illness? It's hard enough to deal with all this when you're well.

Can you take some time--a few days--to just rest and sleep? Is there family who could take care of your kids for an afternoon or an evening so you can rest?

I fortunate in that respect with mine being teens. If I'm absolutely exhausted, they can survive on their own. My only problem is that normally I can't sleep until I've exhausted myself in the wee hours anyway.

I went to Al-Anon again tonight. I still feel sort of uncomfortable and out of place, but maybe if I go enough, it'll finally sink in that I can't control my WH's actions (whether that be drinking or having the A).

LL

I totally blew it off this morning.

Yesterday, Wh was very nice to make me some Chinese herb soup for me. This morning, I told him that he is being nice to me lately, but his heart was not here. Before he's heart was here, but he was nice at all. So he said that do you rather to have a H that is not nice to you or someone who is nice, but not your H. I said both. I wasnt a H that is nice to me. He said let's be friends. I said I want to be friends and couples. He said just let me go. I cried and said I can not control you, I know that i have to let go. I always love you and our family will be here waiting for you. When you are tired out there, you can come home, this is your home. He said thanks. I just totally broke down and couldn't control my self crying.

I am still crying, I don't know what that means. If he decide to move out, it will be plan B. But how I wish that will not happen. But I can not control it. let GOD do it. But my heart aches so much. I don't feel like go to work at all. But I have to go. I don't want the kids to see me broke down. Please help.

lostnhurt -

I think things are going to get better. It looks like OW's H is finally coming out of his denial. I wonder what helped him to do that?

Also your WH being nice to you is a good sign. Try to take care of yourself. You are getting too stressed out.

Have you talked to your sister or cousin lately?

Believer, my heart is bleeding. He said he wanted to leave, I told him if that is what he wants, he can go. He thanked me. I think that he is leaving soooooon. I am so down now. I canceled one of my classes. I can not stop my tear.

lostnhurt -

This is the process you have to go through. It is to save your marriage. I just know he will be back. So do not worry. Start taking care of you.

Believer, sis is not home. Cousin went to HK. I have no one to talk to.

lostnhurt -

You have all of us at marriagebuilders. We will understand you better than anyone. You are still very new in this. You will have lots of surprises and miracles.

I can tell you that your WH will be back. He is going through the regular WS stuff, but stick with the MB program, keep your eyes on the instrument panel. Have hope.

Believer, Thank you so much. Only you give me so much encouragement and hope. I know others care about me too. I really appreciate. But I am just very confused and hurt. Now I have to go to class, which I really don't want to. What a miserable life.

Hey LNH,

I made replies to you (actually and you too lordslady <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) on the thread in GQII (I've bumped it up so you'll see it if you go there today) as well as on the other thread in here by Titleist "How Often Does Plan B Work?". Just J asked you a question on this particular thread that I think you need to seriously look at...

Both of you...please take care of yourselves...I'd like to see you get so much stronger, and positive, and feeling good about life.

I was a tragic mess when I arrived here...so much trauma in my life, quite apart from my WS...I was an absolute wreck...

these days, my saga continues (as does Just J)...so take a word of advice from those ahead of you in the marathon...

life just keeps on getting a whole lot better...the secret is YOU...you can do it guys...trust me, I've been there...awed

Awed,

I read all those. Thank you so much. I know what you and Just J said are true. Believe me, I will be there. But at this moment, I am just weak. I just feel dark, hopeless. My logical thinking tells me this is not true. I have to go againt my feeling. But it is so hard.

I feel so weak, I cut my class short.

try and answer Just J's question okay? Spend some time today thinking about it...don't write a one-line answer saying "I can't do it yet"...

think about what she is asking you...write it down...write it all down...this exercise is designed to help you figure out what is keeping you where you are...

don't try and take 10 steps at once...we're trying to get you to think about taking one tiny little step...okay? think about it, talk about it...nothing to fear at all...talking is not going to hurt you...try this FIRST...

try...awed

Awed, I can't find her questions. I vaguely remember that she asked me whether I want to be in the same situation sometimes later.

My answer is no. My biggest fear is that letting him go, will he go forever? But if he stayes, he won't be here either. I am still struggling. But I already told him this morning that he can go if that is what he really wants. i broke down. I don't feel good at all now. I am shaking now. My biggest hope is that things will happen after the MB weekend. But I can't control it. If it happens, I will go to Plan B passively.

lostnhurt -

Lean on us. We will help you. I am sure your WH will be back. In the meantime, it will be miserable unless you can detach a little.

Please tell OW's H to come here so we can help him too.

I told OW's H to come here. He is stuburn. He even told me not listen to the advice here.

But he is starting to believe you a little, right?

I just do want to talk about this guy. He made me feel sick too.

I know i need to detach from my H. I will pray for that. Meanwhile, i need to find a place to let my feeling out.

I don't feel well again, physically. I have diahrea again, and feel extremely tired. So after sending D to school, I went back to bed. Just got up, WH even didn't look at me or ask me anything. But that is ok. My emotion is still low, but not as bad as yesterday. I will stand up, and be strong.

Last night, I called MIL. She said that Wh didn't call her for a while and she couldn't reach him. I told her that he was home. She said i will call him right away. They talked about an hour, I didn't know what it is. Wh seemed very distant to me this morning. But I need to learn to detach, detach. Not to think about him. Take care of myself.

I'm glad you are doing a little better. I had a good morning. I went to the hospital and saw my new grandson. He is absolutely perfect. So I was very relieved.

Believer, I am so happy about your new grandson. He is blessed to have a grandma like you. How is everything wlse? It was so nice to talk to you. After i fell asleep till 4am. it was good. Thanks a lot.

I am still very sick, but I managed to get up. I just made Sushi, which kids love. It is raining outside. I could'nt go walking, i also need a bathroom nearby <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . So I called H telling him to come home to take care of the kids. He said ok. Otherwise he will be out again. I didn't mean to use this trick to get him, but I am just too weak.

Believer,

I am very happy for you and relieved that your grandson is okay except for the kidney problem. I assume at some point they'll remove it? My cousin has only had one kidney since she was about 9 years old, and she has had two babies in her late 30's with no problems.

LNH,

As for your WH taking care of the kids--remember, they are HIS kids, too. He should take care of them if he needs to. I am concerned for you, that you have been ill so much lately. Have you seen a doctor? I worry that you're getting very run down. I wish I had answers--of course I don't, but I can tell you I do completely understand your pain and your stress (except that since my WH doesn't live with me, I am able to sleep a bit easier since I'm not expecting him to come home and then waiting if he doesn't show). I do still miss him if he doesn't call.

He did call this morning (and I had my cell shut off which scared him) to check on DD and if there was any more news about what she's doing to her arms. I told him, no, that she's okay right now but that it very much scares me and makes me ill to look at. He said again he thinks he's going to give notice on his apartment tomorrow.

Time will tell. And even if he does, what will he do then? I just keep telling him that I love him, that I want our marriage back, but that I will not force him to do something if it's not what he wants.

I'm trying to detach, too. I'm trying to do everything I can to not think about him. Last night I was so miserable with my sinus problem that I took a Benedryl and went to sleep before 11pm--very early for me. I actually slept about 9 hours and do feel better today. But I'm still thinking about him way too much.

Take care of yourself. Make sure even if you don't feel like eating, that you eat anyway once you get over your stomach thing. (I'm jealous of your kids...I love sushi!) And if you can't eat (which I couldn't for about a month), go get yourself some Ensure or one of the other nutritional drinks and drink them. They're probably all that kept me going for a while. I could force myself to drink a can very quickly, when I couldn't stand to actually chew food and swallow it. If you get too run down and lose too much weight, you'll feel that much more miserable. I've learned this the hard way during several anxiety-induced weight loss periods during my life.

I'm praying for you.

LL

LL, Thank you so much. Your writing is so caring and warm. I can't eat anything today except drinking some tea. I tried to eat a little bit, I almost throw up and my stomach aches so much. I am curling now to type. I don't know how much Dr. can help except telling me to rest and drink water, which is what I am doing now.

D has 5 friends over in the house, it is good that I don't feel lonely. They are together to do Battle of Books. I wish I am in that age, don't need to worry about M. My most important lesson to learn now is to detach.

lostnhurt -

Hang in there, things will get better. You have to believe that. You must be strong. You must take care of yourself. Have some soup. If you are not eating well, you will have to see a doctor.

Thank you friends.

H came back to cook dinner. After dinner, he is gone again. But I don't care. i feel peace now. Feeling is very strange. I actually feel good. When I saw him, I had nothing to say to him.

But what worries me is D. I think she had anxiety attack again. She is so whinie, sad, mad and crying for no reason. Few days ago, H mentioned that the news said the Zoloft is one of the anti-D with side affects and addiction. She quit it right away. Now all her symptoms come back. i told her to take Zoloft, she refused to. She is stomping the floor, yelling and crying and is soooo unreasonable. She kept saying that a dog will help. She just cried. H was mad at her. I tried to help her, she kept telling me that I am helping. I told her to see conselor, she refuse. She said she doesn't want to talk to strangers. The one she saw before was not helping. I told her to see a differnet one, she refused too. i don't know what to do.

I actually can see myself through her. She just wanted a dog, which she thought she can not have. I just want my H, which i thought I am hopeless. I looked at her, she has so much around her, all she has don't make her happy, she just want a DOG! Myself too, I have so much, kids, parents, sis and brother, friends, but I just want my H. How stupid I am. I really learn to be strong, and let go. My sis kept telling me, you need to trust GOD, he will give you the best. If H comes back, he will be a better H. Otherwise, GOD will prepare someone better for me. I praise GOD. Coming to this site is my main support.

Your H will come back. I am quite sure of that. But I am very worried about your daughter. All of this that she is going through is too much for her. She does not have the coping skills that adults have.

Maybe you can look into some support groups for teens. Often they feel alienated, but can get help from each other.

Also I think I would come along side her and let her know that you care how she feels. I might even get her a dog. Yes, your WH will be furious, but he has not really taken his part as part of the family.

Yes, I will give D a dog, in the summer. I told her to work hard. But she thought she won't get one, becasue she got 2 B's this marking period. I don't want to conflict with WH that she doesn't have to earn A's to get the dog. I know she will get one, as long as she put her effort in, even with not straight A's.

I see myself in this situation too. GOD will give me the best, as long as I put my best effort. I can't see it now, just like D. But GOD has his plan.

LNH,

I am NOT big on medications myself, and hate that I have to take an A/D to get by sometimes, but my Dr. has explained that some people have brain chemical imbalances and they need that to help them be able to function well.

I have heard that drugs like Zoloft and Paxil have had side effects in teens and younger children, but my DD took Zoloft about 4 years ago and it made a HUGE difference for the positive in her behavior. I'd like to have her back on it now, but she won't take it. If your daughter quit taking them without gradually working down, it could have an effect on her personality. I'd try to get her back on them if at all possible, at least until your family situation settles down.

I know, easier said than done.

I'm actually relatively calm right now, too. I've worked HARD to focus on everything BUT WH tonight. I'm actually still working, but am leaving very soon and will probably take kids to McDonalds (yuck!!) for a quick bite to eat since it's too late for me to cook.

I'm scared for tomorrow. Will my WH give notice on his place? If so, what happens next? I'm praying that God gives me strength and helps me to leave my WH in His hands.

LL

LL, I will pray for you. Trust GOD, no matter what happen tomorrow, it is in GOD's hand.

I know about the side effect quiting Zoloft like that. Shes been on it for more than a year. But she is so stuburn, she refused to take it anymore. I can see that she behaves so well while on it. Now she if off with it, things change right away. I understand the chemical inbalance stuff. I think that is her case, it is WH's cae too.

LNH,

I totally understand how stubborn our DD's can be. Like I said--I have one that SHOULD be taking Zoloft but won't. Unfortunately, mine gets her chemical imbalance from ME!

I'm trying to do everything I can not to think about my WH tonight. I've prayed--for me, for you, and for all the others on this forum trying to save our M's.

I worked late--it kept me occupied. No one wants to go get a bite to eat with me, so I'm going to find some leftovers and eat them and then take my Xanax (and maybe another Benedryl even though I don't need it, just because it'll help me sleep more soundly), and I'm going to bed.

Please do me a favor though, because I worry about you (because you remind me of me). You're doing a good thing eating soup and drinking liquids because at least you're staying hydrated, but if you're not eating in a couple more days, please go visit your loca WalMart or Walgreens and pick up a few 6-packs of the nutritional supplements and drink 2 or 3 a day, just for the vitamins, protein and calories. You can't afford to let yourself get too run down or you'll end up in the hospital. Your kids need you to be strong.

LL

LL, thank you so much for your concern. I drink a lot of liquid. I will eat tomorrow, I promise. I willpray for you especially for tomorrow. I will pray for every one here too. GOod night.

Let's all start taking care of ourselves and thinking good thoughts. We'll get through this together.

Ok, here is some new development, every body please pitch it to help.

This morning, D acted the same, whining and complaining. After sending her to school, I told H that I need to talk to him about D. BTW, he didn't come home till 3am. He put a movie ticket Passion of Christ, time 10:50pm in the kitchen. I said that we need to put D back to Zoloft, he agreed. Then silence.

All the sudden,
he said, I broke up with OW. No more contact, I am going to call her H today to appologize. But you and me are over too, I am going to move out, let's seperate.

I just couldn't swallow all of these in one. I took a deep breath and said, I appreciate your honest, it is not easy to do that, it takes a lot of courage.

Then again he said it is over between us.

Me: why?

H: you are becoming stranger and stranger to me. You prentend nothing happened in front of me, in my back, you did so much. You are so deep in your mind, i even don't know what you are thinking.

Me: Can you be more specific by this?

H: How many phone calls and e-mails did you have to him(OW's H)? What did you do? What did you tell my mom? You said I went out with the Indian girl, I never did.

Me: I asked you many times, but you did tell me.

He: I just don't want to hurt her(OW).

Me: What is the relationship between you two.

He: Just like what you said, it was inapproriate. But it is no more.

Me: We can work it out.

He: You are very deep. She is a very good-hearted person. We have a lot in common. We just started as friends, but it got deeper.

Me: I appreciate you told me.

He: I rented an apartment already. I will not come home T, Th, you can take care of the kids.

Me: Where is your apartment?

He: You don't have to know. (Do I believe that? he will still have contact with OW)

Me: You don't have to move if you don't want to. This is your home. But if you are happier that way, you can move.

He: Look, you are so cold and calm. Why didn't you scream, yell, and whine? You have that right.

Me: I don't want to fight with you. That is not the right way to solve our problem.

He: You didn't care about me for the last 14 years, why do you care now?

Me: I did care about you.

He: Maybe. You didn't care in the way I like. That is why we are incompatible. We have nothing in common. OW is so nice, she is right for me, but...

Me: She is your friend's wife. Compatibility is something we work out. It doesn't come in with no effort. Should we rent a car in CA? (I mean the MB weekend)

He: Ok, go ahead. It is getting late. You get S up.

Me: Ok.

Please help with me what to do next. I don't believe the relationship is over. He doesn't want to work on M.

Pat yourself on the back, girl, you are doing great.

Often, right before a break through, things seem to get worse. But look at all of the progress you have made. When you first came here, you had no idea what was going on, OW's H was in denial, and your WH was not being truthful to you.

You have calmly and lovingly stuck to the program here. You have shown him what a good wife you can be. Obviously OW's H has confronted her. Your H is not happy about that. The A has been exposed to the light of day.

Don't take personally anything he says right now. He will either move out and try to keep up the affair, or stay home. He realizes now that you will let OW's H know what is going on if he stays home.

If he moves out, time for Plan B. Prepare yourself now for it. Please stick with the MB program. It is working for you, and will save your marriage.

Believer, thank you. He said that I pretend to be sick yesterday. I sent my posting to him in e-mail and sent the link of this one to him too. He said he is not going to read it. Who knows.

A student just called. It was just found out last night that his fiance has a brain tumor. He was crying on the phone. I prayed with him on the phone and told him not to worry about the class. If he does come this afternoon, I will not lecture, we will all be supportive to him, talk to him and pray with him. Finally he calm down.

I really don't know why there are so much suffering in the world. Probably we sin too much.

We live in a fallen world, with many problems. That is why we need to stay close to the Lord and help each other.

I've never feel so close to LORD before. But this whole thing draw me so muc close to HIM. I think that GOD use this A to teach me a lesson. I know HE loves me so much, He will give me the best.

Just stick with Him and the marriagebuilders plan. I think you are getting very close to getting the marriage you want and deserve. So slow and steady, keep it up.

Believer, I feel so nervous now. I know I shouldn't. I keep praying for peace in my heart. My anti-D is running out, should I call Dr. for more?

Yes, get some anti-D's soon. You are doing extremely well considering the circumstances. I know it has been painful and hard, but keep looking at the progress you have made.

You started out the only one working on your marriage. You may not have seen progress, but it is happening.

And the great part is that when the miracle happens, it often happens suddenly. But we don't know how the Lord is working in this.

Please remember your WH is addicted - his receptors are being filled by OW right now. But what do you think will happen if they move in together? Then they will see each others faults. And will WH be happy staying in an apartment?

If he has been a good man in the past, he will be one again. Just hang on to that hope. Also the statistics are on your side.

Just hung up with OW's H. He told me they had contact this morning.

I sent an e-mail to him yesterday telling what Wh told me about her. OW's H said Wh's word whehter she loves me or not is her business, that made her angry. Ow said he is not responsible.

I don't know how this mess will turn out. I am having a headache now.

Repeat that again, I didn't understand it.

Sorry, I made it too complicated.

This guy said, in my e-mail, I told him about the conversation between my Wh and me.

Wh said whether she loves me or not is her business.

This sentence made OW angry. She said Wh is irresponsible.

I don't care what is between them. I just want my M work, and my H back. How hard is that.

I am not feeling good at all. I just called the pastor in Canada, we prayed together. I will pray again, for all of us, including my student.

LNH,

I haven't had much time to post today. It's been a very difficult day for me, too. I'll try to get to my own post and vent there.

But I'm praying for you. I know the pain and confusion you feel right now.

LL

I am talking to MIL. She kept saying that I need to check up myself, and work on myself. I said ok.

A lot of things are going to start happening right now, so have some hope.

You need to start taking care of yourself.

I don't know. He is out again, even did not say anything.

I just feel like to call him, should I?

lostnhurt - Are you still up???

Yes, Believer. I am still here. I am down again.

Believer, it was nice to talk to you. I will practice the positive thoughts and take care of myself. Thanks a lot.

Just arrived office, can't help crying. The worst thing is, his office is on the route to my work. I can't go different route, it is on the side of the freeway.

Start thinking positive thoughts. Also get some Ensure and drink it. Then think some more positive thoughts.

Believer, I am trying very hard to think positive. Really, trying. I ate some cereal bars.

I just e-mail him telling him that I and kids love him, and hope him to come home. LB or what?

Good for you. Everytime you start thinking about him, or any negative thoughts, say "Stop". Make your brain think about something pleasant. You can retrain your thinking very quickly.

I want to call him so much. But I have quit thinking about it. Just call the Dr. office to get more anti-D. D was complaining sore thraot.

Wh just left without a trace. This morning S was crying, and I cry infront of him too. We cried holding each other. He kept asking where is daddy. I just told him that both mom and dad love him.

I want to call him to ask these questions:

1. What is your plan?
2. Where do you live?
3. How are you going to tell the kids?
4. What kind of arrangement for kids, expecially when I need to teach at night and weekend for the summer?
5. Do we need to do the seperation legally and how?

Please give me some opinion. Should I call or what to say?

Explain to your children that you have a plan and are working on things. They need to know that you are taking care of family and will continue to do so.

Please have some patience and remember to fly by the instument panel.

Believer, please read my thread. I draft a letter to WH, I need to talk to him. Please give your input.

I just ate half of a slice of pizza. But I feel so sick. My stomach is turning upside down and i am trembling. I tried to call WH. He even did not answer. What am I going to do. Now I have to drive back home and send D for her violin lesson. I don't know how I can do it.

Lostnhurt - What are we going to do about you? I guess we will have to take your hand and walk you through this.

Stop thinking about him. Most WS's don't come back during Plan A. I think it is time for Plan B for you to protect you, your family and your love for husband.

Let him go and see how soon he will want to come back.

Believer, I don't know what I am doing and what i am thinking. I decide to go to Plan B. Help me with a letter. I will talk to SH monday for a concrete plan.

Just finished tutoring a student. His mom helped me rearranged the funitures and gave me some ideas for decoration. It is good. I am going to shop for some pictures or little piece of funitures next week.

Just hang in there and take care of you and your children. Give it some time to see what is up with your H.

Just survived another day, praise the LORD. I took Xenex last night which knocked me down. I was going to call in laws to tell them that their son had abandended us. Just to tell them the fact. But I was knocked out by Xenex. Now I had dropped D to school, have to get S and myself ready and leave. I can not think about tomorrow or the days after. Just live day by day. Why life is so hard?

Porbably the Xenex was too strong. I still feel so sleepy. I almost rear ended a car on the way to work. I need a nap now.

Somehow we have to get you through this in a better way. Car accidents are very common when you are distracted. Also I worry about your health.

So WH has moved out and not taken his things? Or did he pack a suitcase and take some things? At any rate, this is probably good news.

Now OW will have to face the fact that she needs to make a decision. The fantasy may come to a screeching halt. I think it is very hard for women to leave their children.

But your H, in his foggy state will be putting pressure on her, and so will her H. So sit back and see what happens. It may be interesting.

L&H

We are here for you. Post us and let us know how you are. We will help you anyway we can. I can't tell you how many nights I sit at this computer crying posting to you guys. Keep your chin up, you have done nothing wrong. GOD has a plan for you. He is guiding you now, just take a deep breath and let everything go. You will be fine. You are a person too! You have feelings, it is okay to let those feelings out.

Punch a pillow, sit in your car with the windows shut and scream as loud as you can. Then go on with life. We have all been where you are. It is getting easier. I have now let go, and let god take over. He is driving. What will be will be. You can't control anyone but you in this life, remember that.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
NY

I don't know what is going on. He did not pack anything and just left. S has half day today. I called him to see whehter he can take care of him, he did not answer. Then I forwarded a dangerous strange warning note from school to him. He just sent me an e-mail saying that he will come home at noon for one hour to take care of him.

I hate him now. I know this hate is from love. I don't know how long I can hold on. I don't know how to take care of myself either. I need to learn it. I will post another one about women.

What was the dangerous strange warning note?

The note was from the principal of school. It said that there is report of inccidents that a stranger try to approach kids in the area. Let the parents beware. This is a good area, but still something like this happened.

Are you still working on posiive thoughts?

Believer, I am practicing. I feel a little better today. I hope next time the down time will last shorter, and the up time lasts longer. How are you doing?

I'm doing fine, and feeling good. My WH signed the papers for his retirement today. I have been talking to him quite a bit, encouraging him.

Hmmm - what happened to Plan B?

Believer,

Be careful. It's sounding like you are gravitating to my version of Plan B. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

L&H,

Hang in there. How long have you been taking the Xanax? When you first start on them, they can leave you really drowsy for a while. You might want to break a pill in half for a while if you're having problems with it. If you're taking it before you go to bed, you shouldn't still be drowsy in the morning. It's life usually isn't that long. But if you're taking another in the morning, then yes that CAN make you drowsy. Be careful. I went through that, too. I don't have those effects now, but I've been on it long enough that my system has become tolerant and it doesn't do me as much good. It's really for fairly short term therapy. I'm weaning back off now so that I don't get dependent on them.

LL

Believer,

You got a plan b about like me anymore. WH is coming tomorrow to do railings and handrails. I dont' even know if I have feelings for him anymore to tell you the truth. I have talked to him twice this week on the phone and it didn't bother me either time. I used to cry. I think I have emotionally detached myself finally. I really think I have rounded a corner in my life and it feels good. Tomorrow will be the test, seeing him in person. I told him I was going to be here because I can't leave for two days, I have no place to go. Not only that but he is the one that is guilty not me. I said you are going to have to come here and look me in the face because I am not leaving my home for two days. He said I realize that.

I hope things stay well on your end. Praying for you and your happiness.

NY

Hang in there everyone. No, my Plan B has not been all that good, but it did the trick for me. I am much happier now.

WH has had OW for a year now. Marriagebuilders has really helped me, but maybe not our marriage. But miracles happen every day.

Hi, girls. Just came back from a fraternity party. WH came home took care of the kids. But I guess he took them to movies. They are not here. I am talking to sis now.

I will talk to him tonight about what is going on. I am going to present these: 1. stay homr, work on M, 2. Stay home, let M hold, just be friends, 3. move out, be friends, 4. move out, no contact, plan B. 2, 3 are noy my choice, just list these possiblities. Then whatever is decided, we will work out a plan for the kids. Any suggestion?

Hmmm. What to do? I think you need to give it more time to see what he is up to.

Of course, I'm in Lordsladys Plan B now. HeHe.

I agree with Believer, but then again, perhaps I'm not the best one to give advice. It's been a rough few days here in Iowa.

Thursday, the Dept. of Human Svcs (Child Protection) was called annonymously on my DD's cutting she's been doing on her arms. I had to take her to one of the hospitals for evaluation and she was admitted to the adolescent psychiatric ward. That was a tear-jerker of a moment. I cried, she cried...ugly night.

Then today, when I'd finally convinced myself that it was the best thing for her, they discharged her because my insurance won't pay for inpatient unless they are a direct threat to their own lives. Since all she's doing is taking a razor blade and cutting about 50 slices on each arm (Noooo....nothing serious there?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), it wasn't a suicide attempt--just done to hurt herself.

Gotta' LOVE those darned HMO's!

So she's home again, she's been prescribed Strattera (for ADHD) and Zoloft, and has agreed to try them this time.

FIL had his surgery today for prostate cancer. He came through it okay, though they found "nodules" so aren't sure they got it all. I assume this means he'll have to go through chemo which will be tough on him with his heart problems. I am going to try and visit on Sunday--hoping I don't feel too uncomfortable considering my M situation.

And then WH is still saying that OW is walking away on Sunday (which, of course, I'm still not believing--still think she's just "testing" him to see if he'll beg her to stay). If it were HIS choice, I'd feel better about it, but apparently it's hers. He's still not sure what he wants, though he admits he knows his family needs him.

So I guess on Monday I'll know if they're done or not. He's still not sure he wants to come back to our M regardless of what they do.

It is really hard, but at least after 6 months of pain, at least I can go to sleep and sleep through the night without pills, so I guess that is one tiny step.

Believer and NY, I wish I were as strong as you. And LHN, I'm sure if you do a Plan B, you'll do great as well. Your faith seems strong.

Keep reminding me--faith in God... Believe he's in control... Believe he has a plan for each of us that will include blessings in the end of we stay strong and trust in him.

LL

That is very good news about your daughter. Hope the meds will help her.

Hang in there, things will get better. You have to trust that they will.

lostnhurt -

Are you here?

Believer, and LL, I am here.

I was talking to MIL last night before they came back. He too the kids to shopping and bought them tons of stuff, using my credit card!

MIL told me that he called her yesterday noon when picking up S. She said, see he was taking care of the kids. You should not snoop on him, and let him go. OW's H e-mailed me told me that WH did not call him, and his W disappeasred Thur. night again. But anyway, I am very sad.

Then after putting kids to bed, he was gathering some computer stuff. I was waiting for him to talk, but he just stayed in front of the computer. So I asked him whehter we can talk. he said ok. I presented him the 4 possibilities. He said nothing for a while, then he said can you write them down? I wrote them down. Then he said, what is your preference. i said # 1. He still didn't say anything. I told him to think about it and let me know. Then I went to bed.

This morning, S was crying. He didn't want to go to Chinese school. He said, oh that is why he cried the other day, he didn't miss me. I hate that. D has a violin competetion. Her friends mom is going to pick her uo, but she didn't tell me. She told him last night. I was going to send her there. So WH thought I was using that as excuse to have him send S to Chinese school. What a mess.

This afternoon, S has a B-day party for our mutual friends' S. Then going to their hom for party. he said he would go first, then he said he is not going. I want to ask him how he want me to tell our friends our situation. But I don't feel like going either. Why are things so hard? My heart breaks.

Stop thinking about WH and try to enjoy your day. You must become somewhat detached. It will really help you while you are going through all of this.

I'm still feeling good. I hope I stay that way. Go to the party today and try to have fun.

Believer,

I just hung up with a friend of his. That is the couple I first told about this A. He was his former co-worker and a very faithful believer. Yesterday, WH asked me did I call Dan. I said I didn't, but he called when you left. What did you say to him. I said that I told him everything in out situation. He said, no wonder. This morning he told me that he is going to meet him 6pm this afternoon. He also said it is what you want.

So I called Dan and told him about our conversation. I also asked him what he is going to say to him. He told me that he will try to be his friend. It reieved me a little bit. He also told me that he may not report to me what their conversation is about. I told him that I totally understand and respect that. All I want is someone can talk to him, take his side, let him get out all his thought. So he can be less depressed, and think clearly. I will pray for the spirit come upon to Dan, and let the spirit speak. I also pary for Wh to open his heart to LORD. I will pray that they really become true friends he can tell him everything, and he can view him as a reliable source for help.

Just got an e-mail from OW's H. He denied again. Is he nut? I really don't want to talk to him anymore. I may just hire an OI to find out, after MB weekend. I want to go to the cruise NOW.

OW's H is in deep denial. I feel sorry for him. Don't worry, he will figure it out when he is ready to. Also don't argue with him, he will defend his wife.

When he says it is not her, I would say maybe not, but that are out all night on the same nights.

D is acting up again. i really don't know what to with her. She refused to take medicen, and refused to go conseling. She scramed at me telling me I am not helping.

Tell her that you want to help her. Then ask her how you can help her. If she says to leave her alone, tell her you are worried about her and ask her if the two of you can work together for a plan.

That is exactly what I said. But she said I am helping. It is very frustrated. I will have to take her to conseling.

WH took S to the B-day party. He will be back soon. Then he will meet his friend at 6pm. I prayed that GOD's sprit will speak and WH will open his heart. I even don't know whether he will be here tonight.

I just went out walking by myself. D refused to go with me. It was very nice out there. I decided not to go to the party. I hate to drive at night. Now D is talking to her friend, she wants to go for a sleep over. I said ok. I feel like to be alone more and more. I can read and watch TV by myself.

LNH,

This is all very difficult on our DD's, especially when they have emotional issues. Mine doesn't want help either, though after the night she spent in the psychiatric ward, she is now willing to try meds if they'll help her stay out of there. She hated being locked in somewhere where she could see outside but couldn't get out. I hope it was a wake-up for her, but only time will tell.

It's good that you are able to enjoy being alone. That is one of my big problems. When both my kids are gone and it's quiet in the house, that's when I go nuts. I think too much. I really am not much of a TV watcher, and I don't like to read all that well either. I get bored easily.

Today, since it's very nice and sunny out, I spent a good part of the day running errands which at least kept me focused, and then just spent about 2 hours out in my back yard scooping up all my puppy doo-doo that has accumulated during the winter when I couldn't scoop. I still have half a yard to go though! Big dogs poo a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This weekend is hard for me. I hope so much that tomorrow is the day that OW walks away and WH is able to let go, but I have had my heart broken so many times, I really think it's very unlikely it will happen. I can't call and ask. All I can do is sit silently and wait.

And then if it doesn't happen, I have to decide my next move--and I'm not ready.

Well, take care of yourself and do enjoy your time alone. Your DD, I'm sure, needs the time to enjoy friends at the sleepover. Just continue to let her know you love her and you care. That's about all I can do with my DD right now. Sometimes she shuts me out, but other times, like last night, I'm seeing signs of her being more open and chatty. There is always hope.

I'll check back in later.

LL

LL, Thank you for your input. I talked to sis about D too. She really gave me some helpful suggestions. Sis is very smart, she is not married yet and she is 6 years younger, but I felt that she is really smart and sharp. I thank GOD for having such a great sis. This event even brings us closer.

This afternoon, H came home taking S from a B-day party. he sat in front of the computer again. Kids went outside to play. Then I asked him what he thought about the decision. He said he didn't know. I said ok, take your time. Then here we start:

H: How do you think about me?

Me: I love you.

H: Really?

Me: Yes I do.

H: I don't know you anymore, you are so strange now. I don't think you love me. What did you do behind me?

Me: I did not do anything behind you.

H: What did you tell OW's H? He called me and said that you told him that I will call.

Me: Did you call? You told me that you will call him to apologize, didn't you?

H: I just told you about it. Why did you tell him? I didn't feel like it. I did not do anything wrong, i shouldn't apologize.

Me: But you told me that you broke up with OW, and you wer going to call him.

H: I did not do anything, there was nothing between us. I don't know what you want, keep talking to him. What is your purpose? You want to collect my life insurance.

Me: I don't understand why I talk to him would help me to collect a life insurance. All I want was to break the A, and have you back.

H: You didn't like me to go out with her, so I won't. Probably I will only go out with male before I get a D. But you will accuse me to ba a gay.

Me: ???

H: You never thought about me, and care about my feeling. You just do whatever you want. you want to have me back, it won't happen this way.

Me: Why didn't I care about your feeling?

H: Do you want me to get killed, so you can get the life insurance. Do you know what A means? it means adultery. It is a very hard word. A man can not take it. He would be very angry and kill me. Is that what you want?

Me: That is why you said I want to collect the life insurance. I never connect them together. There should be easier ways to collect than doing this.

H: You just thought about yourself. I don't know what you are thinking.

Me: I sent you the MB website and my posting. Did you read it? It recorded what I thought and what I did. Do you want to take a look at it now?

I open the one I posted about how to show my admiration and appreciation to him. He read it. Then I ppulled this one out. He read few.

H: laundry, packing lunch, I can do all of them.

Me: Did you notice that I said the I don't know what else I can do.

H: You claim you love me, but I don't feel it. I just feel that you are selfish.

Me: Why?

H: I just don't feel that. You want me back. That is selfish. If you have an A, I will let you go and wish you the best. I know that not a lot of men can do that, i maybe the few who can do that.

Me: Thank you for letting me know your feeling. It is very important for me to know how you feel. It is not that I like to hear that you don't feel I love you. I like to hear that you tell me your feeling.

H: I don't feel trusted anymore. you checked my wallet, checked my cell phone, my pager. I have to hide these things from you.

Me: Did you ever think about why it is like this?

H: No. I have no time to think about it. I am too busy to work to raise the family. It is to tiring to think about it.

Me: Well, thank you for telling me your feeling. I know something is not w=right in my part. Today D also told me that she didn't feel that I love her. There must be something that I did not do right.

H: You may love me. But I don't feel it. All you do is for yourself.

Me: Thank you for pointing that out to me. At least I know what I should work for. I read all these books HNHN, it tells me that we all work hard, but maybe in the wrong direction. I tried my best and working very hard. But I did not meet your need. In turn I did not have my needs met either. SO I started have resentment. probably that is how our relation got bad.

H: I don't know.

Me: I work very hard in doing all the house work, taking care of kids. Those are my important needs. But may not be yours. I know that yours is SF. I didn't get my needs met, I didnot know how to let out, so I used sex for revenge. That is what I thought.

H: You don't think about others feeling. maybe that is how you were born.

Me: I know. That is what I am working for. Sometimes I don't know what you want. If you can tell me, things will be much easier. That is why SH wanted to talk to you. he wanted to find out how you feel about me, so he can help me. I am learning to tell you my feeling now.

H: What can I tell him?

Me: Just to tell what you think, and how you feel. If you don't want me to hear it, you can talk to him alone. He would only tell me the parts that can help me. I have appointment with him Monday. If you are willing to, I can give you his number.

H: i will think about it.

Me: Can you tell me tomorrow?

H: Ok.

Then friend called him, he left.

LNH,

It sound like you did a really good job being calm and trying to understand what's going on in your WH's head.

In my eyes, the comment he made about how, if you had an A, he'd let you go and wish you the best is totally "fog" and was only made because of the situation he's in. He doesn't want to feel guilty or like he's doing something wrong. He believes right now that this is what he'd do if you had an A, but I will GUARANTEE if your M was healthy and he was there with you all the time and then YOU went out and had the A, he'd feel a LOT different than what he's saying right now.

Again, I don't have wonderful words of advice. I'm sitting here right now trying hard not to be a worried mess because I left a text message for my WH asking how his father was doing, and he's not responded at all to me today. This means my mind immediately starts thinking about how happy he and OW probably are today and how there is probably no way she'll walk out on him tomorrow.

I know. It hurts. Just focus on God and on how he loves us and knows our pain, and wants to help us feel peace. Concentrate on your upcoming cruise (I'm envious!) and the seminar at the end of April. You have some things to look forward to.

LL

LL, I am sorry that you feel lonely now. I am here for you. Only S and me are home now. I actually want to call him. But I am not going to . I do feel peace now. I want this peaceful feeling last longer. We just finished watching Shreck. S had a nose bleed. But it stopped now. I will put him to bed and come back.

LL, are you still here?

LNH,

I went out for a little while to get carry-out Chinese food for kids. We don't do much except for McDonalds or Wendys anymore and even though I'm a little short on funds this week, I decided to do it since DD has been better.

My problem with inability to concentrate (or for that matter, for my brain to work at all sometimes) really came shining through. I opened the garage door and proceeded to back out just like I've been doing all day as I ran my errands, but never gave a thought to looking behind me.

Bad thing! DS was home and his car was in the driveway in it's usual spot. I should have known ths because he was in the car going with me to get the food !

Needless to say, there was an ugly scraping sound and as soon as he said "What was that?", I had the sinking feeling because I knew.

His car took less damage than mine did. His mirror left a nice crinkle and a red pinstripe down the rear passenger side of my dark green car, and then where I scuffed up along the side of his car, I have some really deep scratches through the paint.

His car has some of the trim pulled loose and some scuffs, but I think if we have the trim put back on, the rest won't matter. It's a teen's car--it's not perfect anyway.

But mine looked really good! I had just taken it through the car wash and it was all clean and sparkly.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Rather than call WH for help (since both cars will drive just fine and I knew all he'd do is yell at me), I called my sis. She laughed at my misfortune--shame on her. (Okay, it is funny in an ironic sort of way if I actually had the money right now to fix it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

So if you'd like a laugh--laugh at my stupidity and airheadedness for backing into my own son's car (and for not even thinking about looking behind me before I backed out. Duh!!)

The back of my car has been painted once before and the place that did it did an excellent job. I need to try and find the name, and take it in without my WH knowing and find out how much it will cost. Maybe if it's not as much as I expect it will be, I can get it in and back out before he sees it???

And as for the Chinese food--at that point I handed my keys to my 17-year-old DS and HE drove us safely there!

That's my evening so far. Hope yours has been a little less "exciting".

LL

Hi girls. My WH came over today to talk about finances. We had a calm talk and agreed on everything. I cooked him a steak and salad, which he gobbled down.

Then we went for a ride on the Harley down the coast. It was a beautiful day.

So that was my Plan B for the day.

LL, I don't see any stupidy in your inccident. You don't need to hid it from your Wh either. Just do what it is necessary. Few yeas ago, when we were still happy, I drove over S's bike(little one) over on the drive way, just felt a little bump. I even didn't know it untill I came back, and scream, who ran on the bike?

Believer, I am so happy for you. I can tell you are happier and happier. Best wishes for you.

I didn't take Xenax last night, so my sleep was totally broken. I kept praying asking for peace, and put my worry to GOD. I feel dizzy now. Get to get ready for curch too.

My bad feeling comes back again. I felt so peaceful last night. But now this anxiety is attacking me. My anti-D is already gone, new precription is not filled yet. Please pray for me for peace.

L&H

How long have you been off the anti-D? It usually takes weeks for them to leave your system so if you have only missed a day or two you shouldn't feel this bad. Take a Xanax, they are for anxiety NOT SLEEPING. I have been told this a million times. Please when you feel this bad, take a deep breath in your nose and out yout mouth, take a xanax, lay on the couch and think of a nice place to be. This really works for me. I lay down and think of being on the beach laying in a chair in the sun. Pretty soon it is almost like I can feel the sun beating down on me. If it is really quiet, I will fall a sleep and I usually feel better afterwards.

The one thing that I have found through all of this is, if you don't sleep you are twice as likely to be depressed and have panic attacks. I was only sleeping three hours a night and my depression was spiraling down fast. I thought about everything under the sun at that time. If you read my posts from a couple of weeks ago, I thought my life was over.

In reality I was beating myself up so badly, I wasn't eating right, I wasn't sleeping. I now make myself eat 3 times a day, atleast something. I also take a Xanax and a benadryl before bed and I sleep all the way through every night. I feel like a million dollars now. WH came over and spent the day here doing the railings and I felt nothing for him. I didn't cry last night, I felt nothing other than relief that the railings were getting done, and even better when he left for the night.

I have decided that being alone is really a treasure I never knew before. I went from husband 1 to husband 2, I have been with someone since I was 19. I have been alone now for a while with my kids. I have found the real me, I have lost weight, faced my rape (still working on this with IC), have become a better mother, and I have become strong like steel instead of a folding piece of aluminum foil.

You have to get up and dust yourself off. You will survive this. I never thought I would either. Believe me when I tell you this. I thought I was going to die it hurt so bad. You will survive, you are alive! Go outside and listen to the birds sing, listen to the wind blow, look at the sun feel the warmth. That is what life is all about. It isn't about your WH. It is about living and enjoying your time in the universe on this earth. It goes by so fast. Yesterday I was 16 and now I am 35. Where did those years go? Have I really lived? NO. But I am now, I am living for me instead of someone else now. I feels great. Sorry for the long post. I just want you to feel better. Plan B all the way, it is the best plan ever when you are in pain. And sleep, and eat too! (((((HUGS))))))

NY

NY, thank you so much. Nothing is long. I love to read your post. It did encourage me. I went to church, I worked in the Sunday school. I am so tired now. I feel so empty when come home. D is acting up again. Her action gave me another burden on top of all these. How much I want a relieve. I am going out to take a walk, and hope that helps.

lostnhurt -

Hang in there girl and take care of yourself. I know it is not easy, but you will start getting and better.

Remember, the only one you have the power to change is yourself. It took me a very long time, but I finally changed. Now everything else is changing too. When you change, your WH has to change too.

My WH is still with OW and still talking about reconciling. But I don't let it bother me. I have been nice to him, and he is now going to retire, and is very happy.

I guess I am now in recovery by myself.

Believer, I know that the only thing I can change is myself and I am determined to change. But I don't know what to change. How can I show him that I love him. He said that he does not feel that I love him at all.

Continue what you are doing, being a good wife. You married him for better or worse, this is the worse part.

He is deeply addicted to OW. His brain has chemical changes from his infatuation. That is why nothing you do is good enough.

So you need to get other ways to get your needs met. Concentrate on something else. Get some clothes for the cruise, exercise, go out and do something with kids, and friends.

Put this guy on the back burner for awhile. Things are working in his life that you know nothing about. Just believe that.

[ April 04, 2004, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: believer ]

Believer, you are absolutely right. When I feel bad, talking to someone will help. I already called sis 4 times this weekend.

Just do some things for you and kids. You need to quickly start taking care of you, and getting some of your needs met. You did an excellent Plan A, better than most here. So have hope in that.

By the way, do you have any easy, good recipes for some Chinese dishes? I'm in the mood for cooking.

I even don't know what my needs are now. I only want my H back, which is impossible at this moment.So I have to find something that I like.

An easy recipe is fried rice.

Two cups of raw rice, cooked and let cool.
2 eggs, 4 table spoon soy sauce(depending your taste)

following are optional:

vegetables(what ever you like, chopped, I usaually like green peas or mixed frozen ones), two cup,
shrimp(cooked) 8 oz.
green onion, 1 stalk, chopped

Put 2 tab spoon of cooking oil in a fry pan, then stir in the rice, make them loose, then crack the eggs, add optioanl ingredients, keep stiring for 10 minutes(med to high heat), then add soy sauce. Add salt for taste.

Hope that is good.

Anyone has good remedies for diahhrea? I've been having it almost everyday, it is killing me. I lost to much weight now. It got to be stopped.

Yummy -
Sounds good. I had a friend from Thailand who taught me to cook one thing. You get ground pork and add tons of pepper, then make it into meatballs. You boil these in water and soy sauce, then add chinese cabbage, or bok choy. Then serve with rice. It is very good, and my kids just gobble it up.

I will try your fried rice today. I have to go back to work tomorrow after a week off. It's going to be hard.

Believer, hope you enjoy the rice.

D is driving me crazy again. I wish I know what I can help her, but i don't know how. I love her so much, but I can't help her. I can't hep.

Just went outside to take a walk. It is very windy and cold. So the walk is short. I want to talk to someone, called sis, she was not home. Called friends, they were not home either. I just want to talk to someone. I even want to call WH, just to talk, not R, not M, just to say something. i feel so hopeless and helpless. D is really driving me crazy. I know she is painful, she can't help herself, I can't either. What do i do?

LNH,

We are neither one having good days today. I'm here at work right now but only for a little while. I went to visit FIL in the hospital which was probably the best part of the day so far.

I am sick from anxiety. Was hoping that WH meant it when he said that today was the day OW was to walk out of the picture, but since he took HER to visit his dad in the hospital last night, I don't think there's much hope of that.

I don't know what to do next either. And I hurt with you.

Lets try and focus on God, and each time we start to worry or get anxious (which is probably about every 30 seconds for me), we say in our minds "Stop!", and we just keep doing that until we calm down, or it's time to go to bed, or your sis comes home and you call call her, or I'm home with my kids, or whatever.

LL

LL, just finished reading your post. I can see so much similarity between us. Let's help each other out.

I was able to talk to Believer, she is so calm and nice. She is just an angel.

How long did your event last? I asked the same question: Why can't I stop loving him?

I'm sorry--brain is slow today. What event?

LL

I meant D-day. I can read from your sig line. But my Wh asked for a D on Jan. 6. He started acting up.

While I was teking a walk today, I ried so hard to reflect what was going on in our M. I tried very hard to think about what I did to make the M to this stage.

When I looked at the trees in our yard, they are bigger and stronger than our neighboors. These trees were palnted when we moved in as a new nieghboorhood. H always bought ferterlizer for the trees, I kept telling him why a tree needs ferterlizer. He just said that you alway want to go opposite with me. Now I thought about it, why couldn't I show my appreciation and admiration to him for what he did? Even though I don't agree, but these are not big things, but showing my appreciation would have helped so much I love this man.

He's been mowing the lawn all the time, I never did. He kept telling me neighboor's wives are doing it. I just shrugg my shoulder and did not say a word. Why couldn't I just say something and did something to show my appreciation? That way, I maybe able to deposit something to the love bank. The more I thought of, the more I felt I was stupid. I did not use all my chances to deposit in the love bank, now it is in red.

At this moment, I really miss him. It is not the painful way. I really wish him to be happy. I want to do everything to make him happy. Of course, his way is to let him go. If letting him go can make him happy, I may have to. I love and care about him. I wish we can be happy together, how do I show him I love him?

L&H

Do you have diarrhea everyday? Or just since this started? If it is every day you should go to your Dr. and see if you have irritable bowel syndrome or colitis or something like that. I take a medicine everyday for IBS it is called Lotronex and very expensive. If it is just stress you can take immodium AD. Whatever it is take care of yourself. I also got very sick from the IBS, I thought I was dying it was so terrible. Lotronex has saved my life. It is truly a miracle drug. Also some of the other drugs you are taking can cause Dia.... Some anti-Ds can cause it. Check your symtoms list for your meds. I hope you feel better.

NY

LNH,

MY D-day--when I found out that WH was emotionally involved with OW was October. Then in November, he went to a P/A and I found out about that right away, my 2nd D-day.

However, now it's been out in the open with everyone for nearly 6 months and that's what worries me. Dr. Harley's book says A's rarely survive in the light more than 6 months. He seems proud of his OW, carting her to meet the parents, etc.

I look at this as a very bad sign.

As for you and your health issues, this just makes it all that much more important to make sure you are getting enough nutrients. Are you able to eat healthy foods yet, or are you drinking any supplements?

LL

Ladies - Let's get back on a postive note. I am cooking Lostnhurts fried rice right now. It sure does smell good.

My diahrea started lately, like about 3 weeks ago. I have stomach ache too. But I am setermined to take care of myself, so i can take care of the kids and Wh if he comes home.

Tonight I finally got some business, couple people called about the mortgage. That got me occupied a little.

I praise GOD, I survive another day. Kids are ok. I also pray for everyone here. I pray for my H for his happiness, and OW's family, hope their family reuintes.

I will come back to talk when I put the kids in bed.

Believer, you are increditble woman, you always keep us up.

NY, LL, my friends, let's keep our chin up.

One thing I like to ask you ladies, my right breast always feel sore, not sharp pain, but sore and dull pain. Last mammagram and ultra sound showed nothing serious about a month ago, I was told to go back in 6 months. Should I go back to the Dr. now?

LNH,

If it stays sore for a long time, I'd go back, but I'm actually experiencing the same thing with my left one right now. I wear underwire bras only (because they give me the illusion that I'm actually bigger than a AA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

It's sore and tender along the outside, and the wires are really bothering me. It's done this two or three times before, and will stay this way sometimes for months. In the past, it's cleared up on it's own. I've been told that I have fibrocystic breasts which can cause it (was told to cut down the caffiene---yeah, like telling a drug addict to give up their drugs!). I have also been told that if you ovulate, sometimes a small cyst can form and until it goes away, it can cause breast pain. I'm not on the pill, so this seems the most likely scenario for me.

At any rate, hope that calms you. Normally breast cancer doesn't come with pain, though I did know one woman at my company who had a very rare type and that was her first sign. I'd say if your mammogram was clear, you're fine.

Believer,

As for you, you are one of the most positive people on here. Keep posting. I think this is one of your spiritual gifts...to lift others' spirits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just got home from Al-Anon--my 3rd meeting now--see, I really did mean it when I said I'd go. They are a nice group, although small. Even though I don't share a lot in common with any of them other than a loved one who is an alcoholic, it's nice to just have an hour where we can share and take my mind off other things.

One more thing, LNH,

I love Asian food, but don't know how to cook it. If I give you my email address or something, when you're worrying about things, how about you email me some really great recipes?? Do you cook fairly mild dishes, or do you like some of them spicy? I like spicy things...really spicy.

LL

LNH

I hate to steal your thread, but I just have to tell you the latest late breaking news......MIL just called me and we had a great chat. Better than ever. Okay dig this stuff.....WH is annoyed with OW kid, doesn't care for him, he bugs him in general. That can't be good. Also, he took her to a store that we usually go to Lowe's a hardware store, and he said it didn't feel right taking her instead of me. Then she said that he used to talk about her all the time, and now he doesn't say anything about her at all, nothing. MIL doesn't think he is very happy with her anymore. She says she is hoping he will be done with A soon. She also said that they have told him that she is not going to be accepted into the family with open arms.

I was very happy to hear all of this news, although I dont know why, as when he was here yesterday I didn't have any feelings towards him at all one way or the other. Just numb. MIL also said she has noticed his grooming habits have gotten quite disgusting and she agrees with me finally on the depression. She never agreed when the DR. put him on meds before. Said she couldn't see it. I told her if he could get the meds he would come around and see life again.

I will keep you all posted. LNH get those recipes rolling me and DD love oriental food and spicy stuff.

NY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NY,

I won't post much right now except to say that you are really strong and I look up to you for your strength. I wish I'd have done as good a Plan B as you did. Maybe I wouldn't still be here in this shape had I done it.

You are doing well. Keep it up. If he comes back (and it's sounding like things aren't all that warm and fuzzy in paradise anymore), you can thank your plan. And if he doesn't, you have become a stronger and more independent woman through all this.

LL

LL, thanks for your opinion. Guess I don't need to worry for a while.

NY, I am glad for your news. Please don't put too much hope in it, but keep yout hope and faith in GOD.

My e-mail adress is kzmath@hotmail.com, you are always welcome to e-mail me. I will post some recipes here peiodically. I don't cook spicy food, but if you like it to be spicy, just add some hot pepper or hot sauce to it.
Another thing about my recipes, I don't measure anythign when i cook, so it may not be exact. I will do my best to estimate. When you use the recipe, you can adjust it a little. Well, my habit may not be good, becasue I did the same when I made cookies. So my cookies turned out to be different every time.

Wh came home about 10pm. We did not talk much. I just asked him whether he can talk to SH today. He said yes, then he said maybe. I will pray that he will.

last night's sleep wasn't good either. Lots of nightmares and dreams. My nightmare went back to a building I lived about almost 30 years ago. I saw a huge fire in a 6 story building across. Some people went to the roof top, I think 5 girls. I called 911(that was in China, but I called 911, isn't it funny?) An airplane(not helicopter) came to rescue them, it tried to land twice on the flat roof. But 2 girls jump off before the airplane arrives, I was yelling to tell them to hold on, but they didn't listen and just jumped. One jumped into a lady, this lady broke her leg, and the girl died. It was a very sad dreadm. I was crying and kept saying why don't you hold on for couple more minutes. It was very emotion tense.

As I was awake, I reflected to myself. In a crisis, if we hold on a little bit longer, we can survive. That is what we need to do now.

Whoa that was awful. I know about bad dreams. I hate them.

Well the fried rice came out great and my kids and I gobbled it down. But it was not like chinese fried rice, more heavy and wet. So I think I did something wrong. I cooked rice in a rice cooker. Maybe I put in too much water. It was still very good.

It was nice to have something different. I'm tired of my own cooking.

Hope you have a good day and are taking good care of yourself. I have to go back to work after a week off. It will be hard, because I have been staying up late, and sleeping in the day.

Oh, believer, I forgot to mention that you need to cook your rice a little bit dry. Well, you can keep trying untill you get it.

Going back to work is good. It gives you something to hang on. I hope you have a good day too.

Yes, I love my job and it gives me a lot of satisfaction. I work in a Navy hospital as a project manager. We also take care of 10 clinics. It is very busy, and the day flies by.

The only thing I don't like about it is that I work with all men. I long for female company.

There are good side of working with males too. You are outstanding among them!

Please pray that my Wh will talk to SH and have good talks.

Yes there are good sides - I will try to think of them. I work with 16 men. Then I come home and spend time with my 2 boys. Too may men!

I will pray for you, husband and family today.

NY -

That is very encouraging news to me. I think it could be the beginning of the end for his A. Of course, who knows how long he will hang onto it, but be the lighthouse - and not for him - for you and your kids.

Please don't totally give up hope. When I was in my modified Plan B (true Plan B, but insisted upon by WH, not me), I withdrew myself emotionally from him as well. For my own protection. Don't be so sure that those feelings are not in there, if he ever comes to his senses.

Be open to the possibility that he truly has been abducted by aliens, and that the H you know and love might come back to you. Be open that your feelings could be different than they feel right now.

One thing I have learned on this journey is to stay away from absolutes, NOTHING is as it seems, and love is more powerful than I ever imagined.

Lots of love and support and HUGS!

And a shout out to my girlfriends LL and L&H! You gals are doing awesome. LL, come visit my thread every now and again. I miss you.

SS

SS, miss you. How are you doing in your recovering? Hope things are going well.

Can you point me out where your thread is about your modified Plan B? I need to learn, learn and learn.

H is home tonight. He cooked dinner. Now he took D out to buy a B-day gift for her friend. He is really a good father, and a good man. How I want to be close to him. But he is so distant to me. I love this man, but i don't know what to do. I don't want to make him uncomfortable. I want him to be happy.

How did the session go with SH? Your WH is a good man and will be one again. You just have to hang in there and wait.

I have gone through so many changes, it is unbelievable. I had fits at first, then was numb, then angry, then wanted revenge, now I want him to have a good life. I think this is what we go through.

However, the pain for me is gone. I know you will get to that point too. You have to take care of yourself. Then you will be stronger to face all of this.

I know you are smart, a good mom and wife, chaste, calm, and caring. The OW has betrayed her husband, is deceitful, not a good mom, and selfish.

Give it some time, and your husband will choose you.

Believer,

It is funny that you say numb. I guess that is where I am. I threw fits and cried and all of that. Now I am numb! What comes next? I hope nothing. Just fun and life now....please don't tell me more bad news after numb. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I kind of like it here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NY

Well, after numb comes you are done with WS. But that does not last too long, then you love them again.

H was home last noight, so I didn't get a chance to post. I was so tired too, I went to bed at about 10pm after putting kids to bed.

I asked H how the session went with SH and how he thought about him. He said SH is a nice men, but no comment on the session. I said do you feel better after talking to him? He said is about the same. He asked me whether Sh called me. I told him that we only talked for 5 min because I had to go to class. Then just casual talks about my business. He said I should be more agressive to get clients. This year so far I only had one, and I am getting another one tonight. But it was very different last year.

I aksed him whether he wanted to watch a movie with me at home. He said no because he didn't like what I had. Then I asked him about the Passion of Christ. He said it is very violent, you don't want to watch it. he told me that he went alone and there were only 3 people in the theater that night. I gave him a gentle hug and said goodnight to him.

Then sis called. I didn't talk long with her. We talked about going to cruise, we both are excited.

Last night my sleep was bad, kept waking up. I was awake since 3am. But I was so tired. I also had stomack ache and diahrea again.

This morning, after sending D to school, I had to lie down a little bit. Then I got S up, H saw me(he slept in the guest room) and asked me how I feel for my stomach. I told him that I had diahres again. I think that I should have thanked him for asking. I should have this habit. Then when he came downstairs. he put too much lotion on his hand, I ask him to give to me. So he runb my hands and legs, it felt soooooo good. He didn't touch me for a long time. How I wish we are intimate again. We talked a little bit about my busines partner. I told him that we didn't contact for a while becasue he might not want to do business with me. He said that you should send an e-mail to thank him for everything, be diplomatic. I agreed. I think that he is so good on these things. That is the man I love. He then sent S to school.

Just a while ago, he called and told me that he forgot his cell phone. I fI need to contact him, i can call his desk. Thenhe told me that it may be time to change oil for my car. Where am I heading now?

L&H

I am right there with you. Confused as ever. I think I am done and over WH and then something happens to make me rethink it. This morning the pump in the basement broke, I called his cell and left a message. He called me back from his brothers house and talked me through fixing it. Something that he does usually. If it doesn't get fixed water will fill the basement. Anyway he is going to purchase a new one and put it in tomorrow for us. I am so stupid, I was rude to him because it was frustrating to have this happen with the kids here and all. They were screaming down the basement doorway and all. There are spiders down there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that even SS wouldn't attempt to kill......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Well I fixed it for now and we said good bye and hung up. Then I spoke with my mother and I said I was short with him and I never said thank you.

I rang him back at his brothers house and I said thank you for helping me with the pump, he said your welcome. I said I got so frustrated that I never said thank you and I am sorry. He said I know how it happens, don't worry about it. Then I dont' know why or how it just came out of my mouth........I said by the time you get your **** together and come home I won't need you anymore. He said I don't know there is an awful lot to remember. That was all he said. I couldn't believe I said that. I dont' know where it came from. GOD must have put those words in my mouth. I just don't have a clue. Anyway we talked about son being sick still and finally on antibiotics, then he said see you tomorrow and hung up. Well so much for Plan B, he is planning on me being here again tomorrow when he comes to fix the pump. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

NY

LNH,

Just checking in to see what the latest is. I'm hoping that if you're not posting tonight, maybe this means your H is home with you.

Hope everything is okay.

My WH didn't break contact with OW yet. He still doesn't know what he wants and is now thinking that once the month ends and he has to move from his apartment, he'll move into our travel trailer that is being stored at mutual friends' place (they live on an acreage in the country.) That wasn't what I wanted to hear.

He won't commit to anything right now, and is very proud of himself for not getting emotional (he was at my house briefly tonight to work on DS's car). I did get a little teary-eyed a few times, but hopefully not enough to really upset him. On the other hand, he did hold me briefly, and kissed me good-bye and when I told him I love him, he told me he loves me, too.

The hugs were nice--it's been a while. But they leave me wanting more, which may never happen.

Hope things are going better than that for you.

By the way, how is your DD doing? Is she taking meds yet, or still not wanting to? My DD is actually taking hers, though I think the Strattera for her ADHD is upsetting her stomach. She's been difficult to get to school the last couple days because she doesn't feel well. Hope it passes soon.

And finally, how are YOU feeling. Are you eating healthy yet? I saw on another post that you have lost more weight than you should. I've only lost about 15 pounds which is minor compared to some people, but I've worked HARD to try and keep it at that and no more. I started out underweight, so I'm really thin now. If I lost another 10 pounds, I'd probably be in the hospital. Don't let yourself get too think or too run down.

LL

Hi, friends, miss you. Ny and LL, thank you for thinking of me and your concern too. I had a long day and night yesterday. Here it is.

T noon, I met someone to talk about potential cooporation of business. It went well. The meeting lasted for 2 hours. After that I went to buy some Chinese crocery, b/c H said that there was not much in the ref. When I came home, I quickly prepared dinner and S came home. I hleped him to do his hwk. Then we went outside for little walk, it was nice. D didn't come home, she went to her friends B-day party. I felt more peaceful without her being home. But I also felt guilty for having this feeling.

In the evening, I was supposed to meet my mortgae client at 7pm. It would take me 30 min. to get there. H came home at arounf 6;15. He said that you don't hve to go now. So we ate a quick dinner(they were ready). I left before H and S finished. By the time client signed up all the paper and gave me all the docments, it was about 8:30pm. Then I drove to the company on the opposite direction to hand in the case to process. By the time everything is settled, I came home at about 10pm. I was extremly tired and hungry too. I put the kids to bed and clean up all the dishes, packed everyone's lunch for next day. It was almost 11pm. Then I had few minute to talk to H. We just briefly talked about my business. I thanked him to take care of the kids. He said it is ok. He said that I should be more aggressive and open the market. He said that you only have couple clients this year, look how many you have last year. I agreed on him. Then I hug him and said good night.

I was so tired, but I still could not sleep well. I was thinking to take half pill of Xenax, but I was too tired to get it. But at 3am, I woke up with sharp stomach ache. After a while, I went to H and told him. He said that you can sleep here(I felt like little kids going to parents bed at night), I can rub you tommy. He hold me and rub my tommy. At first I felt a little better, he felt asleep. Then the pain came back, I tossed and turned. He asked whether should send me to the dr. I said I will wait a while and see what happen. I drank alrge amount of hot water, finally the pain came down. During that i almost threw up. Then I started having diahhrea. I finally could fall in aleep till 5:30am. But I had too keep getting up to use the bathroom b/c I drank so much water.

H told me to stay in baed and got up to send D to school. Then he came back to take S. Finally at 8:00am, I got a call. It was the referral of yesterday's client. She asked for mortgage too. I had to wake up and talk to her. But I really feel dizzy. Then in the kitchen. H and I talked a little about this business again. I asked him what we are going to do this weekend because the kids will be off from Friday and next week is their Spring break. We both are off too. I have to go back to work Monday, but he is still off Monday. He said he has no idea. I suggest to go to Toronto which we used to go so often, my brother is there and my mom is there too now. He didn't say yes or no. Then he left sending S to school. In the car he called me and said you should take your van to change the oil before we are going to Toronto. So i assume that is a yes?

I finally got myself up and went to work. I talked to Sh this morning. He told me that I made progress by all these positive signs. Just keep doing what I am doing. Hang in till the MB weekend. Then I can talk to him again. He told me that I have to be patient, can not expect too much at one time. I asked him about the 3 month for women and 6 month for men in Plan A. He said it is just a guide line, and average time. It really depends on each individual. I am encouraged.

hang in there and hope you are feeling better.

LNH,

It sounds like progress to me. At least he's open to the idea of getting away for a while.

I'm more concerned right now about your stomach problems. I really do think you should see a Dr. Maybe, like someone said, it's irritable bowel syndrome (and if so, the Dr. could give you some meds maybe or a special diet?), or could be just related to all your anxiety, but either way, you've been sick a lot recently. You just need to make sure you're doing everything you can to keep yourself healthy. You need your strength right now.

LL

Check with you doctor. It could be a side effect of the anti-D, but you need to get yourself checked out. Please make an appointment.

Thank you my friends. I will definitely make appointment to see Dr.

I will be going to have oild change now. S has half day today, I have to be back by noon.

Yesterday, H came home and cooked dinner. He is a good cook. He cooked samon, chicken brocklies, and beef. By the time dinner was ready, D refuse to come. H got mad. But I think that he control it. Finally after we are finished, D came. She said she had to finish her project.

H started lecturing on her. He said that he made the effort to be with the family, he expected the whole family to be on the dinner table. D said you were not here a lot. He told her to try the samon, she said I don't want to. He said you just try it, you don't have to try it, but if you don't try it then give it up, you would lose a lot. She said I just don't like it ok? He said that you have to open your mind. There are many things in this world, and many solutions to a problem, if you don't explore it and made a decision, you are not going to get the best of it. The whole conversation on dinner table lasted about 30 minutes, it is about the same thing. Does it sound familiar? I hope he gets it and apply to himself and D. Then he took them to the library. He told me to go to bed early and get good rest.

He is still distant to me. I am just praying GOD give me more patience and strangth, I prayed for roughroad for today's seesion with SH and her H will talk to SH too. I prayed for all my mb friends. I still don't want to put too much hope in it. But keep my faith in GOD.

Sounds to me like he is making some effort. Just stay the course, and fly by the instrument panel. You are continuing to do well in Plan A.

Just the thought that he is talking to your D like that is hopeful. He must be thinking about things.

Is there anything that D likes to do? I am worried about her too. Would she like to have friends over for a sleep over?

hey lost, thanks for the prayers, we will see how it goes will try to talk to H later today. have you made a dr. appt yet? the fact that he is saying or trying to apply what you've been telling him IMO sounds like he has really woken up and honestly trying to work on the M. continued prayers to you.

Thank you for your encouragment. It seemed that he is a little bit open. We are going to TOronto for the weekend. I am going to book the ticket to see Mamamia. H said to take D with us, but I just want to go with him. D has a good friend in Totonto, she is my sil's niece, about the same age. My nephews are 8 and 5, so S can play with them. THey are really looking forward to the weekend. Every summer, I took the children and stayed there for two weeks or more. Myabe we will do that this summer, just to see how things go.

D likes to have friends over and go to her friends. BUt I told her she has to finished her homework and playing her violin and piano before she can do that. She usually got mad with me by telling her so, but I stick to my ground. I leran to not LB to her either, just to stay firm with the rules.

This morning, after oil change, I went shopping a little bit. I ended up buying most of stuff for H. I have to go at least one more time to buy some clothes for the cruise.

Can any of you give me some idea what to buy for in laws when we visit them while going MB weekend. ANy suggestion is appreciated.

Now S and I are going to bike riding.

RR, how is your session wiht SH. I will keep praying for you.

Believer, how are things going with you? I hope you have a nice weekend. I have a new receipe for you, you can try it during the weekend. It is a healthy food.

Shrimp(chicken or whatever meat) tofu.

Shrimp ( chicken, or pork, or beef): 6 oz.

shrimp need to be preeled(if you go to Sam's club or costco, you can buy the peeled raw shrimp in good price)

If you use meat, cut the meat in little 1/2" cubes

Marinate material:

Corn starch 2 tab. spoon
salt 2 tea spoon
sugar: 1 tea spoon
soy sauce(the best kind can be found in Chienese grocery, ask for superior light soy sauce, Pearl River Bridge Brand): 3 tab. spoon. can be more if you like.
Cooking wine(can be any kind of wine too): 2 tab spoon
Hot sauce(optional, get it from Chinese grocery, ask for the not sour kind)

Tofu(soft): a pack

Green peas(optional): a cup
Green onion(optional): 1 stalk shopped

Mix the shrimp or meat with marinate materials, let stand for 10 minutes or longer.

Cut tofu into 1" cubes, drain water.

Heat pan in med to high heat, add 2 tab spoon cooking oil, put in shrimp( or meat), stir for 5 min until cooked, then put in tofu, cover with lid for 10 min. add green peas or green onion for 2 min., sprinkle with sesame oil if you like.

Enjoy it.

sounds like you are feeling better and i'm excited to hear how your trip to toronto goes/went. you'll have to read about how my session went this morning on the GQII forum. it was a good session of course and my H had agreed to talk w/SH on monday. i'm trying not to get my hopes up but it's hard not to. just continue to pray for him and that he will go through with it. i have to go, prayers to you as well.

Things are going well with me. If I could just get rid of that pesky OW. H came to my work today to give me his retirement papers to send in. I sent them right away.

So he will be retiring on the 30th of this month. This has really been a surprise. He had turned down the offer until I called and told him I was not going to divorce him, and wanted him to have a nice life. He really sees the changes in me, and has trusted me on this.

He kept hugging me in the parking lot. It was very strange.

Lostnhurt - Thanks for the recipe. I wrote it down and will cook it.

Believer, I am so happy for you.

But we have to keep in mind that WS always do strange things until they totally come out of fog.

Now it is almost 9pm. H didn't come home and didn't call either. I called him to see whether he come home for dinner, he didn't answer either. It didn't surprise me. Kids are used to that too. They are used to only one parent is home, that is not good. I wonder how we are going to go tomorrow. If he didn't get enough sleep, the driving will be dangerous. But I learn to not let things hurt me so much. I guess that is a way to protect myself.

Good - don't think about what he is up to. Also I would ease up on daughter. It is good to have requirements, but not so strict that she has to get straight A's to get a dog, or have her friends over.

I hope you have a great weekend. Try to put the problems on the back burner, and have some fun together.

Believer, than you.

I am very very tired now. I will go to bed and have a good rest. I hope you have a great weekend.

LNH,

I copied down the recipe, too. It looks good! Thanks.

Have a good weekend in Toronto. I pray things will go well for you, and that you'll feel better physically, too.

Believer,

See...maybe Lordslady's Plan B isn't so bad?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Kidding...I didn't do it right, and I'm probaby going to still have to do a real one, because my WH just can't let go of sleazy OW. He's being friendlier with me, but I know she's still very much in the picture, too.

But it sounds like things are going better with you and yours. Keep hope!

LL

[ April 08, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

Good morning to my friends. Let's remember this day Crist dies for our sins.

Last night I went to bed, fell in sleep right a way, but S came over to wake me up. He said he couldn't sleep. I had to get up and put him back to bed. After that I couldn't sleep.

So I called sis,we talked about an hour. Then called MIL, talked for another hour. MIL said H didn't call her for a while again didn't know what he was up to. I reported everything. I told her that he is not happy. She said that you have to do everything to make him happy(???). But I didn't disagree. Eventually I lead the topic to that he is not happy, he is very empty, he has no religiou, no hobbies, no friends, no anything. His life is just empty, nothing he can enjoy. MIL finally agreed with me. I didn't want to force her to agree with me, I am just concern about her son. She said that he might have mental health problem and need to see a pyschaitrist. But anyway, I don't know the solution. I just prayed for him. I said that in order for him to be happy, he has to be WILLING to be happy, open himself up and let go his own pride, NO ONE can MAKE him happy.

I still couldn't sleep after that, so I took half a pill of Xenax. But I got up early this morning. I prayed and read the Bible.

He is still not here and I don;t know where is is about. Are we going to Toronto, I don't know. But I don't feel sad or anxious. Just let it be.

It 11am here now. He is is still no trace to be found. Kids are whining to go, nephews called to ask to come soon. If he didn't say he would come, I would just left bu myself.

What is going on? Why did he do this to me and the kids?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lostnhurt:
What is going on? Why did he do this to me and the kids? <hr /></blockquote>A bring the worst trait of all ... selfishness. In it WS is not capable to care anything else but the source of his addiction.

Treat him like an insane person that you loved dearly. All his actions, past, present and future are forgiven.

Hang in there & vent in here.

-rh-

RH, I am still hanging in here. But this moment I am hurt really bad. I read Bible and prayed. The kids are whining. Oh, how I want this whole thing to end soon. Even MIL said the same thing. But she couldn't so anything.

I tried to take a nap, but couldn't sleep. I read read and read. I read SAA, I read the Bible, I read the book called GOD is calling. I couldn't sleep. I am feeling so anxious now.

I am shaking and feeling so hurt. My heart aches.

{{{Lostandhurt}}}

Breathe in, breathe out...

I am praying for you. Even though you can't see it right now, God is at work in your husband this very minute.

If he calls you are liable to Lb, the way you are feeling. You need to rest your mind. Try to sleep a bit.

Its going to be okay.

Shul

LNH,

I've experienced what you are feeling, being so anxious that you can't get your mind off the situation even by reading, and you just feel worse and worse.

If you can, try getting up and walking around. If you can't actually go on a walk (which would probably help the most, because you can focus on the things around you), I've even been known to just pace my floor in my house. The exercise eventually relaxes me a bit. Just sitting around makes you think more and more on it.

You are in my prayers. I hope you are still able to go to Toronto. I'm sort of undecided on what to do this weekend myself. I've been invited to my sis's for Easter dinner on Sunday, but my family will all be there and then I have to deal with questions about WH and myself. I don't like doing that, because it makes me think about us. But if I don't go, it'll just be the kids and I at home for Easter, and that will feel strange, too, because I've always celebrated with WH.

LL

Shul and LL, Thank you for your prayer. I really need toconcertrate on myslef. Like what you said, I will go take a walk and hope that will help. I don't know when he will be here or even will be here. But I don't want to disappoint myself buy this. I got to be strong.

Please keep praying for me. I am going to respond to MOMto3boys.

Lost, could you go to toronto without your H? or do you need for him to go to help w/driving? how long of a drive is it from where you live to toronto? prayers to you sweetheart.

RR, I can go to Toronto by myself. But since he said that he will go, I don't want to go leaving him behind. Even though he broke his promise, but I don't want to act selfish. If he doesn't come back tonight, I will go there by myself.

I think I would just go. It is not fair to the kids, especially since he has not even called you. He is definitely back in the fog. The OW may have been angry that he was going.

Hang in there. Mine is continuing to lie to me.

I will give him till tonight. I will definitely go tomorrow morning. I am to tired to drive now. It will take about 5 hours.

I just went to a walk. I feel a little better. I just want to talk to some one . Talking make me feel better. But sis is driving now. I talked to her this morning. I called the pastor in Canada. I called MIL last night. I don't know who to talk to now.

Kids are watching a movie. Hearing their laughter make me feel good and sad too. How innocent they are. But how did their father treat them? I want to cry.

He just came in and telling us we will go now. I asked him why he didn't answer my calls. He said I didn't know it.(????)

You are dealing with an addict. The Economist recently published a study that showed that romantic love affects the brain the way crack cocaine does.

No sane man would do to his family what this man is doing. Take pity on the guy, realize it has nothing to do with you, and at least you will be the one with him in Toronto.

[ April 09, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

just let it roll off on your shoulders, you can't let him see that it bothers you because like what was said above you are dealing w/an addict. SH has said this to me that i have to remain guarded and prepared and not let what my H says or does deter me because he is acting on his emotions and he is an addict. now of course, this is easier said then done sometimes.

How often are you counseling w/SH? or is that kind of on hold until the MB weekend? if you can afford it i would still do some counseling w/SH because he will help keep you focused and keep you motivated. like he told me in our session yesterday (i was telling him that i was starting to have doubts about my ability to see this through) he said that my energy has been sapped that i'm in a race but it's an endurance race. anyone that starts off in a race of course does it w/the intention of running the best race they can and of finishing the race. but what often happens is that at some point those in a race may start to have doubts about whether they can finish the race or may even consider giving up. so he told me if i'm feeling this way that i need to pull back and save some of my energy because i have to FINISH the race. i'm not out to set a record but to finish.

hope that helps much prayers to you.

Hi, friends. I am finally in Toronto now. After having dinner with brother, we are in his home.

It really bothered me with this guy(WH) sitting by me while driving. How could he do all those awful things to me and now he saw my brother. I felt so disgusted. But I hold it to myself and prentend nothing happen. SH told me at lest hold till MB weekend. I will update everything to you myfriends. Thanks for your prayer.

You're doing very well. Please try to enjoy this time with your family. You need to relax and have some fun for a change. We will all be thinking about you.

My WH asked me to go to Easter sunrise service at the beach with him Sunday morning. I was quite surprised and agreed to go.

Is there any way you two could be together out of town until the MBW? There may be a cost saving in terms of your health bills and avoidance of divorce costs if you are able to do this.

Hi girls. I am now painting my bathroom, making it a lighter color. I went to the garage sales today, and got some good deals - some playstation2 games, Matrix and Veronica something, for my boys. Also I got a real Fossil purse for $5.00 that the lady paid $80.00 for at the exchange.

The downside is my WH is still lying to me. I asked him for $385. yesterday. He gave me $300. and said he could not scrape up the extra $85. He does not know I have access to his bank account online. Well last night he withdrew $200. to blow on OW. So I am bummed.

I have been good to him lately, encouraging him to retire, telling him I want the best for him, and that I will not file for D. I thought maybe he would be straight with me. But I guess not.

Believer, don't expect him to change instantaneously. He has to lie to you now as long as he is with OW. The same as my WH. But he will turn around.

I was having good time here. I tried to eliminate all the neg. thought once they come in my mind. It is a hard battle, but I did it. Yesterday, we went for lunch, after lunch, brother took the kids to swimming. We two were alone. Then we went to see Mama Mia at night. I was great. I wish the time stoped here forever.

I'm so happy that you are having a good time, you deserve it.

It is Easter, a day of hope, so let's all start having some hope.

when will you be talking to SH again? today is the day for my H to talk to SH, prayers to you.

RR, I am praying for your H to have a good talk with SH.

I will not talk to him until after the MB weekend.

well, how do you feel now about the weekend? i know we just have to take one day at a time but how do you feel about the length of time between now and the MB weekend? again, think of it as a race and that you are in it to finish it. the MB seminar is just one of the turns in the road and you have to save your energy to get to there and then once you there i'm sure you'll be energized! wish i could be going to the MB seminar as well but maybe the one in july (MB has not finalized the seminar yet) will be the one i go to.

remember God is there for us and all the people here are for us and that all us BS want to do is the one thing that will put us on the road to recovery so look at the time until the MB seminar as that. i'm sure once your at the seminar things will have more clarity for you. take care and continued prayers to you.

RR and my friends, thank you for thinking of me. I will pray for your tomorrow's seesion too.

It's been a long day today. I came to work late, so there were a lot of things to do, and I didn't have time to post. Here is my report.

WH didn't came home till 4pm Friday. Kids were not happy, you knew. But our driving was good. In the car, S and D read Psalms 21, 23, and 101. I felt so good about them doing it. Then D was reading in the car. When it was getting dark, H asked her stop reading. She kept reading. When he turned aroung, she got caught. H was mad, but D tried to argue that she didn't read, she just wanted to see what page she was(? good excuse). Then H said, I saw you, you have better just ADMIT it and say sorry, then stop doing it, period. Does that sound familiar?

I kept asking him whether he was tired and whehter he wanted me to drive. But he said he could do it. We finally arrived Toronto at about 8:30pm, we went dinner with brother and his family. The kids were so excited. SIL saw me and said, you lost so much weight, how did you do it? Just tell me, I will do the same. I said that you don't want to know, you don't want to do it. Then she asked H, he just said oh I lost weight too. We satyed in borhter's house.

The next day, we got up very late, like 9;30 or later. Then I went to have a hair cut. H didn't have any comment, I asked him how it was. He said it is ok. Then we all went to lunch in a new Chinses mall. It was great. Then brother ans SIL took the kids to swmming. Two of us were left alone. I asked him what he wanted to do, he said that he want ed to sleep. So we went back to the house to sleep. I was tired too. It was about 6pm when we woke up. Then we took shower and changed. Went to down town for Mama Mia. It was a great show. The story was about a single mom and her D, D tried to find her father before her wedding. There were a lot of things poked me. I remember Sam, one of the possible father, said that he was pleading to his wife not to go before a divorce. I almost cried. But I felt so good with my H by me, even he is a WH. I just want the time to stop there. After the show, we went to eat dinner, it was 11pm. It was basicall good that day.

Then on Sunday, we didn't get up till almost 10am. When D got up, she was crying and told me that her dad was not not being nice to her. I told her that she is old enough to know it is the time to get up. She can tell her dad about her feeling, but she doesn't have to cry. It is basiclly the strategy I used. Once again, we went out for brunch. After that we went shopping. Then H wanted to leave, but the kids wanted to stay. I actually wanted to stay longer too, b/c I know that when we come back, things will be back to reality. So finally we satyed for dinner. At dinner, D started a conversation about adultry by commenting on Colby Brian. Then brother, SIL and my mom all saying things about how bad infidelities are, I added to ti that it is a crime in US. Wh couldn't say anything. It made him feel very uncomfortable. I hope that it hit him hard. We left at about 6pm. When we arrived home, it was almost 11pm.

When we wer driving, I tried to have conversation with H. At the beginning, he told me that this was a good trip. He also said that next time we come here, the new mall we went may fill up with shops. I was so happy he said that. Then the kids started their bad behavior. Then he said to D, you shouldn't play with little kids(I don't know why he said so, those are her cousins). D was not happy. Then he said that I came here just for the two of you, I was so bored. We won't come anymore. My heart sanked. I know I should not react on that. I just held it to myself.

When we got home, after unpacking the stuffs and putting kids to bed, he went to use the computer again. He said he will sleep in the guest room again, it made me feel so sad. I know that I have to be patient. I don't know what he thinks and where our M will go.

TOday, I have to work and he is still off. The kids had spring break. When I arrived office, S called and crying. He said that dad was mean to him. But I knew that he was too tired and didn't want to get up. I really want the kids to behave and make him feel the warmth of home. But they don't cooperate. I do think that their behavior would make him feel used. But I don't know what I can do besides keep telling them their father loves them and they have to listen to him.

I do think that H loves his kids and did his best. I do give him credit for going this trip with us. But I still don't feel good about what he did before the trip. I need to address that he has to call me and communicate with me about where he is about.

But I had the bad feeling again, my gut feeling tells me something maybe going on, he may disappear again. This hurt me the most.

Little steps, little steps. He did go with you and we will give him credit for that.

Kids are kids and they will act up. Especially when they know something is going on. But don't worry about it. The whole family will just have to get through this.

You've come this far without LBing, keep it up. Take care of yourself and be good to yourself.

you are doing such a good job, keep it up! sounds like the weekend went well overall and he did go. let us know how your doing, we're all here for you and are happy for the strides you are making. remember baby steps or chip away because we are in a race to finish not to sprint. prayers to you.

Thank you for your encouragement. I do see baby steps in my situation. I really praise GOD for that.

I feel ok today. I got up early today to cook a lunch for H so he can have fresh food for lunch. Usaually he only took the left over. Then I gave him a massage before he got up, during that I told him nicely that I prefer him to stay home, but if he decides not to come, please give me a call and take my calls too. He agreed. He agreed before, but probably he FORGOT. I also thank him for staying home with kids yesterday. Then I asked him whehter he can take half day off tomorrow, because I have to work till late, he said ok.

Yesterday, when I came home, they just arrived home from shopping. H bought a kids a fish tank, but no fish. I will have to go buy them a fish today, I told the kids to finish homework before we can go. He also bought them hamburgers for dinner. Then he cooked for me and himself. Isn't that nice.

After dinner and everything, we watched a Chinese movie bought from Toronto. It was the first time he sat by me willingly, we ate snachs together. I felt good. But the kids didn't understand Chinese, so it gave me a chance to educate them about the importance to go to Chinese school. It was a good movie. After that, he took out the gabages, and I put the kids to bed. I talked to D a little bit, when I kissed them good night. H was alreay in his bed, so I went to kiss him goodnight too. It feels like I have another kid.

I did have a good night sleep last night. I prayed and thank GOD for that the first thing i woke up. Now I realized that my diahhrea and other symptoms are stress related, I don't have that anymore since Frdiay. I hope that it will last.

I know that steady and slowly will win the race. I am not running a sprint, it is a marathon. Maybe 2 years later, when i look back, I know I did it.

RR, how is your seesion with SH today. I've been praying for you.

Believer, how are you doing? thinking of you all the time.

i posted my session today under the GQII forum and says "4th session w/SH today 4/13/04 and the plan.........

i think you have an excellent grasp on things and are doing well. your insight w/God, to what is going on, and the "typical" american way of thinking is very comforting and i hope you see it that way and i'm glad you're here keeping us posted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> it's amazing what are bodies can do in response to stress, even to the point of causing a limb to feel paralyzed! it's called a psychosomatic symptom. anyway........

you are on the right path no matter what happens because you are on God's path. if you have a chance reply to marie elena's post under the GQII forum with her question about confronting the OW. I think she would benefit from what you have to say and seeking God's will in what we are all doing. prayers to you.

RR, I did reply to Marie/s posting.

Today, I spent a lot of time reading other posting. Meanwhile trying to sort out last year's stuff. I found out every year, h sorted out all credit card bills, bank statements, pay subs, etc. It went back to 1992. So I did the same today, and threw out the old stuff. I do appreciate what he did and hope that he would continue doing it for our family.

I also found out today, I paid the utility company instaed of the mortgage company in the online payment. So I have to rush to pay the mortgage in order not to have a late payment. Now you can see how absent minded I am now.

It is almost 8pm here, H is still not home and I don't expect him. I want to have a peace mind, even though my heart aches a little bit.

Lostnhurt-

Hang in there and keep hanging in there. You are doing very well.

I fell off Plan B and talked my WH into retiring. He was so happy. But as I posted here, he is continuing to lie to me. When I asked him for $385.,he said he could only scrape up $300. This is the first money I have gotten from him in a year.

This is how he pays me back. He took out $200. on the weekend to spend on OW. Today he spent $100. on a tatoo. Now I am beginning to have second thoughts.

When he got a chance to retire, he will get a bonus of $25,000. I thought that if I helped him, he would help me. I did promise not to file for divorce. But I have a feeling that he is going to continue to march and blow the bonus.

Believer, I think that we BS had put too much hope on WS, which in turn hurts us badly. I read your story, but I am glad that you get up quickly.

I feel so bad now, he disappeared again. I even don't know why he went to Toronto. I would rather that he just gone forever.

MIL just called, I will talk to her.

Think about telling MIL what is going on. I protected my H from the consequences of his breaking my arm -- consequences that no doubt would have included jail. The A was far far worse emotionally and may well have ended had I opened my mouth to his family. But I was trying to preserve the M. Instead, I helped to preserve conditions that allowed the A to continue...

I feel bad for you. I am thinking of you tonight...Remember that he is an addict and someday he will feel just terrible about what he did to his family, pain that may fade but will never really go away because of his selfishness.

Cherished, I've been thinking about you too. How is everything with you.

MIL said that she couldn't get a hold of H for a long time. I was the one kept calling her and informed her everything. I told him to call her, she left messages in his cell phone many times, but he never called her back. She was so angry with him now. She is in my side.

D and I had a short conversation. She said that she doesn't like that her dad not being home a lot. She was so sad. I told her that I understand her feeling, mom is sad about the situation too, but working on in. She should express her feeling to dad. She agreed. I also told her that she can help by acting good, and listen. Stop whining. She said that she wants attention, I told her it is the opposite. I started apply the strategy here. It seemed that she listened a little. I hope that she can change too, and our family will become a better one.

Believer,

Your WH and my WH do sound a lot alike. Mine got a new tattoo (and OW got a matching one) back in December. Yours has a Harley, too, right?

Does he have other tattoos? Mine has three of them. Maybe it's really ink poisoning and not an addiction after all?! (kidding... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

All I can do is pray for strength for you and ask that you do the same for me. It is hard. My WH's A started, as near as I can figure, back in September as an E/A but it may have been a month earlier. I didn't realize it until October. So although I've never done a true Plan B, I can attest to how hard it is to have it continue month after month.

I know every BS is devastated when they find out about the A, but I do sometimes envy those who's WS is willing to break things off and work on the marriage at the point the A first comes to light.

LNH,

You just hang in there. I was glad to hear you felt better physically over the weekend. You needed that, and I hope it is the start of more better days for you. I'm glad you had such a good weekend, and that your WH was also able to talk to SH a while back. Wish mine would talk to Jennifer tomorrow, but he refuses.

I'm sorry to hear you are alone again tonight, but sounds like you are on the right track with your DD. Mine is not willing to be cooperative, so it's tougher. She wants to make her dad miserable for hurting her, but I think based on her frequent questions about him, wants him back, too.

I don't know what to do myself. Just hanging in there until the call tomorrow night with Jennifer. Then I'm down to probably only being able to afford one more session with her, unless I start running up a credit card bill, and I really hate to do that.

Hopefully she will be able to encourage me. I wish I had a recorder to tape the conversation. I felt good after our last call, but just reading my scribbled notes, I don't get quite the same feeling now. I'd like to hear the whole thing again because I know there are so many things that I heard at the time that were positive, that I can't remember now.

Lets all continue to pray for each other.

LL

[ April 13, 2004, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

Oh, friends, another sleepless night. I am back to the low point of the rollercoaster.

H is still not home now, I guess he won't be. But I have to go to work, and kids are home. He supposed to come half day to take care of the kids. I hope he will do that.

Last night after hung up with MIL, I called H. As usual, he didn't answer the call. I left him a message asking him to call his parents. I went to bed. My cell phone rang at 1am, it was H. He said that he was sorry and he wouldn't come home. I asked him where he was, he said out there. Where? Do you need to sleep? He said, I just called my parents. I asked him again, don't you need to sleep and how? He said, don't worry, I will be sleeping alone(???). I sigh, and said good bye.

Then at 2am, sis called. She was thinking about me. I couldn't sleep anyway. She said that it maybe time to go to plan B. I agree. Then we said that we will hang in till after the MB weekend. I only have 9 more days to go before the cruise. These 9 days are long.

The whole night, I couldn't sleep. I prayed a lot and think a lot. Now I finally understand the meaning of Plan B. This weekend gave me some false hope, and he is back to the same old trash again. It hurts, hurts a lot. Last few weeks, I felt better already, but now I am back to square one. Plan B may protect my feeling.

Please pray for me to get out of this low soon.

LL - Yes my WH has a Harley, 2 in fact, a 73 Shovelhead, and a new 2003. He has one tatoo that says "Trust in Jesus". So I think the other one was for OW.

But anyway girls, we just gotta pick ourselves up and go on. It helps to have lots of projects and activities. I try to keep busy and not think of WH and OW. I intend to have a good life with or without WH.

Believer, I know that I have to move on with or without WH. I have to pick myself up. But this weak moment is so hard. I will try to work myself out.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Yes my WH has a Harley, 2 in fact, a 73 Shovelhead, and a new 2003 <hr /></blockquote>Well now ladies something we have in common..WS has a Roadking and I an 883 Sportster... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WS is still pulling my chain ...still seeing OW but throwing little tidbits out there to keep reeling me in...latest...I wanted rent out our Florida property for next winter as we have had an inquiry to rent for the winter months..WS's response "I am reluctant to committ to rent property this far in advance as I had hoped that there may a possiblity of "us" spending the winter there next year"...now how does he see that happening when he is still seeing OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...what is this all about...man this guy is good... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ April 14, 2004, 06:59 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]

Lostnhurt,
You have so much grace in dealing with this situation that it brings tears to my eyes.

The MB weekend is a "line in the sand" and it is clear that some people do not make the decision to break contact with their WSs. In that case, Dr. Harley recommends Plan B. Your 9 days of hanging on gives the line in the sand as definitely the MB weekend.

My H and I are on to Lesson 3 of HN/HN, Affection. I am realizing that he gave to OW what he denied me ever since the birth of our first child in March 1994 when he said it was too hard to be affectionate without having sex. Well, now there is no sex. I am completely repulsed. Unlike many others, I gained weight instead of losing weight -- 40 pounds in two years. I think it has to do with a revulsion that I was the one who had been a whore all these years, participating in sex without the emotional attachment formed by affection.

Anyway, steel yourself for the probability that the MBW will not result in the end of the A. I think Dr. Harley has said that only 15% of affairs die by one party ending it and 85% die a natural death, usually within 6 months of being exposed. Whatever you can do to expose it -- like your MIL knowing and the OW's family knowing -- is all you can do, and then you need to let the rest go.

From my perspective, you may want to think about being all ready for Plan B if there is contact with OW after the MBW. Someday he may return, after the natural death of the affair, and be ready to go through the MB follow up, but that follow up is really tough and you'll need to have the emotional reserve to deal with it.

One interesting thing my H said to me the other day, something that for some reason I think may help you, was that he wouldn't be willing to reconcile if, say, we divorced and three years later I would want to give our M another try like what happened with one woman who lives down the street from us. I said that that wouldn't be a problem for me because I would never want to attempt a reconciliation if this program doesn't work. We're on the last try and that's it.

The reason why I am telling you this is I can see your H saying that he just needs some time and that he will want a D if you go to Plan B. Again, I'm trying to learn from Dr. Harley and my own experiences here, but I think it will be important for you to call his bluff and say that that is fine with you -- you're willing to accept a D rather than have him continue to see OW while trying to reconcile with you. Dr. Harley has said that the OP always looks better than the BS, and I can appreciate why -- the OP is happy and getting lots of needs met, and the BS is very unhappy. You need to be with him only if he is willing to work on meeting your needs!

Good luck.

thinking of you and sending prayers to you.

Friends, thank you for your prayer and thoughts.

My H even didn't want to reconcile. It is out of question. He always wanted a D, but with no action. I don't know what it is. I wished he just file and the whole thing done. Now his action one day gave me a glimse of hope, other day dumped me to the deep valley. I am sick and tired of it. I gave the MB weekend as deadline for Plan B. meanwhile, I should lo up GOD, put my trust on HIM, instead of WH's action.

I really want to call H to tell him how hurtful his action was to me. What do you think?

I am by no means an expert here hon but I would advise no...he knows how much this is hurting you and your family and chooses to ignore it...I have found the less I see of WS and have contact the better I cope...I am taking my example from Believer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...I know it hurts...Ws moved out in October and I hurt everyday but have learned to try to keep busy...try not to feel needy in front of WS...try to do things for yourself if possible...I guess that is all I can offer you right now...just know I am thinking of you and feel your pain

I called him. I ended up crying. I told him that he has to make a decision.

Ahhh hon...pressuring him will get you nowhere...see Lost Bird's post on no contact and space...WS tells me he appreciates me giving him his space and not reacting in anger...see how bad you feel now...just try a few days of no contact...you will feel better

Yeh, you are right. I still feel so bad. But what was doen was done. I will just pray that GOD will handle the rest.

LNH,

Don't beat yourself up about calling and telling him to make a choice. It's in the past, probably not the best thing to do, but you can't change it. I've done the same thing, over and over. I know it doesn't work. I know it pushes WH further away. But sometimes in our pain, we don't always think things through clearly.

I hurt like you. My WH gave notice on his apt and has to move by 4/30. I was hopeful he would move home (and give up OW) because that was the original talk. Now it doesn't appear that's happening. He had originally wanted to drive me home from FL on his Harley in May. Now it doesn't look like that's happening either. Lot's of hopes dashed.

I, like you, will eventually probably have to do a real Plan B if things don't change, and I'm just as fearful as you are, because I just keep thinking "what if he forgets me?"

For the other Harley owners...

My WH has a 1999 Heritage Springer. At one time he was looking at a Sportster for me, but I'd have to learn how to drive one. I only ride at this point.

LL

LL, thanks. I know how much we are a like. I just feel sooooooooo bad now. I feel like the world is going to colapse. Actually, if it is true, that would be better for me now.

I don't know anything about Harley, I just have their stocks.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I don't know anything about Harley, I just have their stocks.

<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well if you have stock in HOG hon you have something to smile about today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

((((((((HUGS)))))))))

N. O., thanks for the big hug.

I feel that you are like Believer who can bring sun shine to everyone. You are so blessed to have grandchildren. I don't understand why those WS want to avoid all these good women.

Just think how he feels when you call him and threaten him as compared with how he feels when he talks with OW... What I concluded was I was going to let Harley's program either work on him or not but it was beyond me...and that helped calm me down.

Hang on to 9 days of this hell and then the program and, if the deicision isn't made for NC, then Plan B...BUT NEVER AGAIN what you are going through...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I feel that you are like Believer who can bring sun shine to everyone. You are so blessed to have grandchildren. I don't understand why those WS want to avoid all these good women.

<hr /></blockquote>You and me both hon..when folks see WS with OW they almost puke (where is that pesky puke smily when you want it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ...she is dowdy short and dumpy...must be because she can hang from the chandeliers and spin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You can see my Pic on this thread...I am the last poster...

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=2043164#post2043164

M.O., you look great.

Cherished, I feel so stupid. I don't know whether i want to talk yo him tonight.

Actually, I was not talking about OW. I forgot about her. I meant that he is half way between moving out and stay, not coming home without telling me. I told him he either stay or move out, period. He has to make the decision.

At this point, it is only 9 days until you are on your cruise. Can you just plan that he can come and go as he pleases -- totally let off the pressure on him -- and then allow the program itself to force him to decide what he wants to do?

Remember that you are making things unpleasant for him by asking him to move out or stay. Count the hours, if need be. Can you get through tonight simply not being concerned where he is and whether he'll be home or not? Try that. It's not your decision. It's his. Your decision is whether to go to Plan B, and at this point it may be best to wait until MBW.

Harley is well aware that some of the people who attend are in the midst of an affair. It's not like he has to have made a no contact commitment in order to attend.

My bad feeling is coming back to haunt me now. Oh, how I wish I am in deep sleep now.

Tell yourself that he is an addict, that he has to hit bottom, and that the MBW is the classic "intervention". This is your best shot.
You have 9 days to last through. Let him do what he is going to do.

In the years that follow, you'll be glad you stuck to this no matter what the outcome because you won't have to deal with the guilt of having ended the M (not having the Christian commitment to M, not being able to forgive, etc.). What I see of MB is very impressive. I go into each lesson wondering how we could possibly get through it, and face problems that seem to have no solution, and things seem to work out.

You have 9 days to hang on. Keep posting... I feel for you like you wouldn't believe. I never went through what you are going through, but I suspected and he told me not to call OWH and so I lived with thinking I was going crazy... it was all so horrible ... and yet two years later things are much clearer and more tolerable...

Can you believe that I actually lay in bed praying that our 4 month old would die of SIDS... since he was blaming her for being so upset, he didn't want a fourth child... You can get wrapped in fog...

Please hang on and keep posting...

Cherished, you are so right. You give me hope. Did you say that things actually worked?

My situation probably is slightly different. WH didn't want to commit like yours. He just want a D. What do I do?

Should I just let him do whatever? If he hand the D paper to me, do I just sign it?

No, you don't sign it. Tell him you don't want a D.

Believer, I don't know how D works. If I don't sign the D paper, then I won't get a D? Or if he files, it will automatically D. I don't know anything.

But at least, there is no action. We still have all the joint accounts, all his stuff are still here. I really don't know what to do.

Just got a voice message from him. He said he is home(he still calls it home), he was going to ride bike with S. All the things he did give me mix feeling. He did so much to hurt us, then he did other things to make me feel that he is still worthy.

A colleage just walked in asking me to translate some questionares from Chinese. I read it, it is about marriage. She needs to do research. Then I read a Chinese novel, it was about a man who had so many A's, he killed the last OW. But his W and D were still waiting for him. It described when he saw his W, she was strong, self-respect, etc, it made him feel very guilty. He asked for D, finally his W agreed, then he freaked out.

I think that I should learn something there.

Lostnhurt,
The last time my H brought up D was two days ago. BEFORE the A started nearly three years ago now, I wanted us to attend a MBW because I read HN/HN and felt "starved for affection". NO was the answer. I special ordered the workbook and asked if we could go through it. NO. After the A was exposed, I asked if we could attend MBW here in Minnesota. NO. I asked again five months later. NO. Finally, after $6,000 in MC with two different MCs, I said you can go through MB or not but I'm ending the current MC now. He decided he was willing to participate and by then we could get the MB program and follow-up without attending the weekend. That's my story. I heard D many, many times. I also had my MIL telling me I needed to forgive him and an A was understandable because what was the W like that the H would have an A. You know what my response to that was? Oh, and under what circumstances is it understandable that a H beat up his W in front of their children? HIS family felt bad but thought the problem now is I need to forgive him. MY family thinks I am nuts to stay with him and won't see him again ever no matter what. We have had a very rough time of it and not just because of the A, but now he is willing to go through MB follow-up. However, he has brought up a number of times that I'm not doing it right and he quits. I've learned to say "Your choice" because indeed it is. He may quit at any time; however, we are still going along and things are becoming clear.

You have two goals: 1) keep your sanity and your hope, and 2) encourage your H to attend the MB weekend.

He's unlikely to file for D in the next week. He wants to keep attention OFF his bad behavior (an affair, in the end, is simple thoughtlessness) and make it ON yours. How can he succeed? Hmmm... How about this -- I want a D. Maybe that will work.

A friend told me that my job is to make sure he cannot blame me for his behavior.

He succeeded for many years. That's how abused women stay in abusive relationships -- the women think it is THEIR fault that their husbands are beating them up. Well, in this case, guess what? Your H cannot possibly be the blame for his affair. You have to be the blame!

Look, I was so lost that I accepted blame for his breaking my arm, but I knew an affair was not my fault. Where did he go after that? To: you won't forgive me. That again makes me the problem.

Your H is doing what he can to blame you for his behavior. Don't cooperate! Tell him that you want him to be happy, tell him that you think that the MBW can help you two to become happy together, and encourage him to attend. Other than that, what needs to be discussed? YOU have absolutely no ability to keep him away from OW. Don't try. That's his decision and, at the moment, he's made it. He may think he can have you and her, too. Well, you and SH have agreed to stay in Plan A until the MBW. That means that he can have you and OW -- until the MBW. The game changes after that. Then he has to make a decision. If he wants to see OW, PLAN B...

The MBW and follow-up is not some sort of magic bullet that solves all marital problems, but I run into obstacle after obstacle and they seem to be addressable. It's a very structured program of 24 lessons. We are on lesson 3. We may be on it for a while, but that's OK.

I encourage you to eliminate any possibility of his being able to blame you for his deciding against attending the MBW. If he can find an excuse, he may use it. YOU need some reserve to go through the follow-up program to create a great M.

[ April 14, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Chrished, thank you for your insight. It is reallt helpful. I have to refocus myself to GOD. I won't give him any excuses for not going to MBW. I know that is not magical, but at least he is exposed to the concept.

lost, cherised is good, wow! great reply! you know you have the forums to help support you how about more in-person support? family, friends, church, etc.? i know i have tons of support and i feel it but at the same time i just want a hug! from someone who cares, supports, and loves me. my mom is coming up this weekend and i am so looking forward to just hugging her and talking to her. even though we talk on the phone, looking at someone still makes a difference. i was never close to my mom until i moved away from home and have gradually grown closer to her over the years and then we were thrown into overdrive the past few months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but hey there's nothing wrong w/that.

i have found that all i have to tell people or ask of people is just to pray for me and my H. i don't need to say more than that and afterall how can they pray for us if they don't know that they should? remember, remember, remember you are in a race and it's a MARATHON, not a sprint! i keep using this analogy but it's so fitting. the next 9 days are the next leg of the race and you have got to stay the course! it's probably easier for me to say b/c i don't have to see or talk to my H everyday and there's definitely pros and cons to that.

i gotta go, i had to stay late at work because i had to take off a couple of hours for tax stuff so i just decided i would stay late and then just go straight to church from work. i'll be talking to the pastor tonight and will probably be going forward for church membership on sunday when my mom is here. God knows what he's doing and we just have to take one minute at a time, yes, that's right one minute. because we never know what might happen. hang in there and prayers to you.

I have what may seem like a dumb question (and is looking too far into the future) for those of you posting to this thread (sorry, LNH, not meaning to steal your thread).

What if WH kept up A forever and never filed for D? I have a feeling mine could do this because it doesn't seem to bother him or OW that he is still M. He's always said if he and I don't work out, he'll never get M again, and she says the same, so there's really no reason for either of them to officially D unless her H wants to M the girl he lives with someday.

I'm not sure WH will ever file on me, even if he never discontinues the A. He'll wait forever for me to do it, so I can be the one who made the choice.

Do others ever face that situation?

LL

I don't think my WH will ever divorce me. He continues to say he loves me, blah, blah, blah. I sure will never get married again.

But let's not worry about that now, let's worry about taking care of ourselves, family, and home.

Dear friends, thank you for your support and encouragement.

We did not talk last night. I was so tired, because of the sleepless night before. But we did watch the movie Nutty Professor, I almost fell asleep. So I did sleep through last night, maybe partly because he was here, I don't know. I got to learn to dettach.

This morning we had a short conversation.

Me: Can I ask you 3 things?
H: What?
Me: Come home. If you don't come, please give me a call. When you are out, please answer my call.
H: Silent.
Me: Yes or no?
H: (mumbleing) ok. nCan I ask you one thing?
Me: go ahead
H: Can we seperate?
Me: No, we are asking opposite things.
H: It is easier for you, so you don't have to wait for me and check where I was.
Me: That is not what I want. I just hope that you can come home and be happy.
H: We are already seperated.
Me: No, that is not true. You just left without telling. It is irresponsible.
H: Why am I not responsible. I took care of the kids. Don't you think I am better than before?
Me: Of course, you are much better. The irresponsible I meant is that you not coming home without letting me know. Not answering my calls. All i want to know is that what your arrangement is, so I can arragange accordingly. Just be courteours. I prefer you tell me where you are and when to go and discuss with me, but you don't have to if you don't want to. My request is minmimum, just inform me. That is it.
H: You should dumb me b/c I am such a bad person.
Me: I will dumb the bad behavior, not the person. Maybe an alien lives inside you now.
H: Let's seperate, you are working to hard. you don't feel good. It is too hard on you. (???)
Me: That is not the solution.

H: Remember long time ago, you went to a trip with two boys of you high school classmates, you told me you want to see how it was wihtout me for sometime. So you can try now, just to see how it is without me.

Oh, that was long time ago, in 1987, two years before we were married. We were just dating. My friends called me to go to the west, Grand Canyon, L. V., LA, San. F., etc, it was about two weeks. Well, those boys could be candidates for my boyfriends too. But there was basically friendship. we knew each other too much since we were 12 or 13. But anyway, I already forgot about that, I didn't know he still remember. I didn't know why he was not invited. maybe just b/c we wanted a reunion.

Me: I want you to be here, but I don't need you.
H: Is that true. In the past, you just need me to do things, be a driver when traveling.
Me: I didn't mean it. If I made you feel that, I am sorry.
H: I know you are nice to me, but I feel that you didn't do it from your heart.
Me: How can I show you that it is from my heart?
H: I don't know. You have to find out. My experience showed that it won't last long either.
Me: Do you want me to be nice to you forever? Ok, first you need to give a chance to do that, second, you need to give the time to see how long it will last, right?
H: You don't have to try so hard.
Me: How about this, I have few days before going to my crusie, then we will go to MBW. Can we try to work a little bit for these few day?

H: What do you mean?

Me: You come home everyday, be a good husband and father, see how you like it?

H: Then we will seperate?

Me:(I almost laugh) Then we can see what happen, if you don't like it, we can talk about what to do next, if seperation really makes you happy, we can talk about it.

H: Ok.

Then we went downstairs for breakfast. I pop a question to him: Do you really enjoy it or it is just a responsibility when you take care of the kids? He said both.

Then he left. We will see what happen. I really have to set my goal low, and look upon GOD. I have to work hard on my feelings and detachemnt.

ALL I CAN SAY IS GLORY HALLELUJAH YOU WERE PERFECT! I am so proud of you! i think you did such a good job and please know that you can look back on that conversation and know you were awesome! i don't think i will be the only one to say this but lady, you're on your way, no matter where the "end" is. you need to reward yourself today and just smile A LOT! now take what happened as what you needed to get you through to the cruise and FINISH THE RACE! God blesses us no matter what happens to us and i wish i could give you a big hug IN PERSON! I will still be wishing you prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ April 15, 2004, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />What if WH kept up A forever and never filed for D? I have a feeling mine could do this because it doesn't seem to bother him or OW that he is still M. <hr /></blockquote>This is exactly what I am going through as well..I think WS would fence sit as long as I would let him...he seems happy with his situation...carries on in his own space...sees OW when he feels like it but when he doesn't no strings attached as she seems willing to just take the crumbs...as for me he likes to make sure I am OK and wants to keep options open there in case either one of us OW and I pull the plug...WS has the best of both worlds here. but I am not playing this game for much longer...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I'm not sure WH will ever file on me, even if he never discontinues the A. He'll wait forever for me to do it, so I can be the one who made the choice. Do others ever face that situation?
<hr /></blockquote>WS has told me he does not want Divorce..I am so mad at times I feel like filing but then I think why should I pay for the damn thing when he created this mess...maybe legal separation is the way to go ...get my finances in order and then see...what do you all think?

Your talk with you H brings up memories from exactly two years ago today for me, when I was finally out of a cast and thinking things were going well with us.

It was a Sunday morning, and we had just had sex. H said, "Maybe we should separate so that you don't have to worry about what I'm doing during the day."

My response: "I'm not worried about what you're doing during the day."

I wasn't. I think it was two days later that I first registered on MB because then I started to worry about why he said that.

That's my story, which is why I am saying this to you: SEE He is doing to you what my H did to me. HE wants to have time with OW and figures that separation is in your best interest which is how he justifies it.

WELL, you didn't allow him to justify his own bad behavior. I can see it coming -- MBW is a point of decision for him, and he is going to work very hard to justify continuing to see OW. He'll say he can't make you happy, see how miserable he's made you these last few months....blah blah blah.

DON'T TAKE THE BAIT!!!! Let Harley's program work on him, focus on the program, and see what happens. Basically, it is up to him. He is doing something so reprehensible that he will want you to be responsible, so your goal is to make it clear that you think you can be happy with him and you will do what you can to make him happy BUT it is up to him whether he is willing to work on your M.

RR, thank you so much. But I don't put any expection on his words at all. You know how a WH behaves. I will just keep my eyes on GOD.

N.O., don't be the bad guy. Wait for him to file. Seperation maybe a good solution.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> That's my story, which is why I am saying this to you: SEE He is doing to you what my H did to me. HE wants to have time with OW and figures that separation is in your best interest which is how he justifies it. <hr /></blockquote>WS told me when he decided to move out that he needed space and time to think things over...what he really wanted was to continue A without any scutiny from me...they can come up with many excuses why they leave but in the end this is why...

i'll just pigtail on my first reply today to say that what you did was good, when i read what he said i just shrugged it off as typical fogtalk. I know you can't expect too much from him but feel good about what you did and said at that moment. remember how you were feeling so bad about calling him? well look how well you picked yourself up! YOU keep up the good work because YOU are making progress and YOU are still in the race. prayers to you.

[ April 15, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Oh, ladies, you are so right. he told me that he want to be alone to think the things. I told him that he can be alone to think if he is home. I will NOT agree a seperation, it is and will be his choice if that happens.

Cherished, how did you learn all these wisdom? BTW, did you seperate? How did you keep him home? Does he still have A?

Lostnhurt, We are JUST at the beginning of recovery two years after A was exposed. That is not typical. We did separate for two months -- I threw him out of the house in September, 2002. A was exposed in May.

I had been in Plan A, doing badly, all during the A and ended up in IC convinced that this was my problem. What more can you expect from a woman who took the blame for physical abuse?

It took a LONG, LONG time to come out of the abuse fog. The key was realizing that HIS choices are HIS choices.

HE chooses an Affair, HE chooses separation. YOU are willing to work on the M.

If you can get into the program, and he is willing to end contact with OW, the program itself is a systematic way to address problems.

I am realizing that I gained 60 pounds (since beginning of M) to keep myself from having an affair because I was so deprived of affection at home. I gained 40 pounds in the last two years.

Keep up the good work...focus on what you can do and the MAIN thing is to volley back to him any attempts on his part to justify his behavior by pointing at you. And keep in touch...

Cherished, you have gone a long way. I really admire your strength.

But sometimes, I don't know what I should do. I am very confused.

I am listening to some messages from internet. It is about the ways how a coule can work under GOD. She said that you think that everything you do is for GOD, not for human. Maybe that is what I should do.

Lost

I have read a few posts here to see if I could get a sense of hat has been going on but I think I have a good idea of your situation.

Here is one thing I knew for sure in my situation. I knew where the boundry was with my W. She didn't have to state it to me. I knew that if I continued on with OW our M was over. My W underscored thart last night when I told her of stories of WS on MB, primaily H, that bounced back and forth with the OW and their wives. She said had I done that she would have moved on with out me. In a way I also i had the help of OW, she did not want to go on in the A. I felt very bad because of the pain I had brought into my W's life. There was nothing that she ever did or didn't do that waranted that kind of treatment from me.

So my advice to you is for you to develop a plan and stick to it. If you tried Plan A and it didn't work then it is time for plan B. Your H keeps wanting to seperate. I am not an advocate for seperation. I don't see how it can help rebuild a marriage. I think he is tryinfg to frighten you into allowing him to leave.

He must be accountable to you for his where abouts etc. That's the price he pays for having the A. His duty is to you and his children wheather he is i n the picture or not. So make sure that he knows if he leaves he'll be responsible to support you financially, OW is somewhere at the end of the list when it comes to $. Tell him the next time he leaves he can just not bother coming back. If he wants her she can have him. This back and forth stuff is creating greater harm in the lives of your children than if he was out of the house and visiting them on weekends, at least they would know what to expect and so would you.

If you have been advised differently it dosen't seem to be working. I am new to your story so I really don't know all the history. I am saying that I knew where my W's boundries were w/o asking but if she had thought there needed some clarification she would have made it crystal clear and more than likely in one sentence. If I want her, my W, it must be only her. That was the arrangement when we got married and it hasn't changed. I hope this is helpful to you. Let me know.
H

You can never go wrong w/God but I know you know that. i think it's more of knowing what God's will is. it's very hard to decipher whether or not the thoughts that come into my head are what God wants or what satan is trying to get me to think. The devil is very powerful and deceiving us and too often he comes as a wolf in sheeps clothing. we just have to trust God, lay it at his feet, and take one day at a time because we are not guaranteed what time we have on this earth. prayers to you.

One thing I know is that you can go wrong thinking you are doing God's will. I forgave physical abuse again and again because my focus was on forgiveness. It was only with the A that I knew it wasn't about forgiveness. God does not like infidelity. He forgave the adulterous woman by saying "Go and sin no more." You are not called to tolerate adultery that is in your face.

You are doing great with Plan A. I never would have done as well has you have. BUT you are just hanging on, and you only have a few days until you are out and on to the MBW. If you can stick it out until then, I think that he will be faced with a dramatic choice. He will see that he has to make a choice or you will go to Plan B with NC. If he doesn't make a switch then, you can probably expect many months of his being involved with OW, but that will be his problem because you won't be in the picture. If you try to Plan A then, you will be giving him the opportunity to have both of you, and you will be the less appealing person because you will be so hurt. You may even end up with health problems from the stress of dealing with him. Better Plan B then.

Thank you all. It is so helpful.

Hiker, I really appreciate your insight. Please keep giving me the advice. My problem now is that he wants to seperate, he wants to leave. Do I just let go? He said he doesn't care losing
everything.

RR and Cherished, today, I prayd to ask for GOD's direction. I asked GOD to change my inside, a Real Change. I ask for GOD's love, so I can love my family more. I feel a little peace. I still don't know what I should do. But I just feel more peace. I think that is the state I want. I have to keep praying more so I can hang in.

Today, my diahhrea comes back, I know it is due to stress again. I have headache and feel so tired. But I will be strong. Please keep posting to me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If you try to Plan A then, you will be giving him the opportunity to have both of you, and you will be the less appealing person because you will be so hurt. <hr /></blockquote>This is similar to what Jennifer said to me in counseling last night. She told me that Plan B might be better because it will leave WH to hopefully remember the good/positive things about me instead of always seeing my sad face which is not attractive to him.

I am scared as you are, LNH, about going to a Plan B. I am afraid it could drag on for months and I will be so lonely. Maybe he will even forget me. Maybe the A will never end and he'll never come back, and I'm left with just a bunch of photos and VCR tapes of him and the kids that I can't watch due to sadness.

But if things don't change in the next month (and you are working on a similar deadline), I will probably have no choice but to really try a good Plan B.

I, too, am praying for God's guidance. I am torn between if He wants me to stay or go from this marriage. I love WH, but know God doesn't approve of the A. I am so unsure of what I'm supposed to do. I feel this may be God working on me, too, to build faith and patience in me, and I'm digging my feet in like a little kid who is angry, because I hate this situation and it hurts.

LL

lost

I thought I could give it all up too. But when it is gone I think he will reconsider. This is a tough one. Seperation scared the _ _ _ _ out of me. I am sure my w mentioned it. I know that when she found out I was away (I was going to hike the next AM). She said "Don't come home!" but I came home anyway. I drove half the night to get home all of a sudden I didn't want to lose everything. That was a very bad time, especially for my w. I wish there was a way to undo that.

What is missing for your H at home? I just can't imagine giving up children. Kingdoms, cars, wealth, homes maybe even honor but not children.It has happened but I don't understand it.

You have been at this for some time. I am sure you have tried it all. You were going to file for D on 3/31. Did you? What was his reaction? Maybe I should read more.
H

LL, we are together. If plan B, let's do it togehter. We need to call each other a lot. I wish we are closer.

Hiker,

I never file for D. He always said he want a D, now change to seperation. He started with me for asking for D, giving up everything, house, money, kids. He said he only takes himself. he would have no financial problem if he took nothing. He has good income. I have full time job too, but life will be different if only my income.

I had a deadline myself for Plan B. He agreed to go to MB weekend 4/30. He talked to SH once, then we went to Toronto last weekend with kids. Other then that, his disapearance is still as usual.

It took me a great effort to expose his A. At first he kept denying. All the sudden, he admitted and told me that the A is over. But he also told me that he still want a D. He said that it is not about OW, it is between us. He doesn't love me anymore and he didn't believe I love him. Blah blah. So I son't know where i am now.

Lostnhurt,
There is absolutely nothing you could have done to have deserved your H's treatment. During the A, I remember thinking to myself "Not even Ted Bundy deserves to be treated like this." Well, he never was openly in an A. What I was dealing with was abuse. You know what? What you're dealing with would have been far worse for me.

Please just hang on for a few more days because then it will be very clear to both of you that the break needs to be at the MBW. If not, Plan B. Again, his choice to continue hurting you and not doing the program puts you in the spot of accepting hurt which could lead to serious medical problems or Plan B until he agrees not to continue hurting you.

Cherished, you are absolutely right. I just have to protect myself from being hurt. He agreed this morning that he would try for few days, do I believe that? No. I don't thinki he is going to be home tonight. Let's forget about him. For some moment, I hate him. I know that this is sin. But I can't help. I was praying to be more loving today. I need to pray more.

Lostnhurt, He's an addict with ready access to his drug and no immediate consequence if he uses.

That will change with MBW intervention. He will have a consequence of NC with you.

That's what you need to hang on to.

Cherished, thank you for your encoragement. I just feel so tired, TIRED.

How do you take care of 4 kids? I have 2, I already feel so tired. But this ordeal is killing me.

LNH,

I understand how tired you can feel. Me, too. For me it's not a "sleepy" tired, it's just feeling exhausted all the time. I'm sure my weight loss hasn't helped.

You're right. If we have to go to Plan B (and I will be praying hard for both of us that some kind of miracle could happen and that we wouldn't), I agree, we need to be able to call for support.

Have you seen a doctor yet about your stomach problems? I think you should if you haven't. maybe they can give you something to settle it a bit?

I have to switch my A/D because my insurance is taking mine off their formulary list, so called today to make an appointment and am getting in tomorrow. Hope they can find something that works maybe even better than my Celexa, yet without the side effects I had from Paxil. I'm guessing it'll be Lexapro. So then I'll have to get used to new meds again. I'm also going to mention my weight loss problem and see if Dr. has any ideas on how to stabilize or gain about 10 pounds back.

Take care. I actually have my monthly Bunco game tonight with the neighbor ladies. It's my only social event that I have besides church. I missed last month due to a bad cold, so am sort of looking forward to tonight, though I've been having a horrible anxiety attack all day. I think probably because of how last night turned out and then the fact that WH didn't call me all day until just before I left work (and left several messages for him) and then he was rather cold and controlled.

LL

Lostnhurt,
On December 5, 2001, I had a surgery for a child-birth related injury that resulted in literally my bladder and cervix falling out of my vagina. I had a hyterectomy with repair to my bladder, rectum, and small intestine. I was in the hospital 5 days and came home with a catheter bag and lots of pain pills. I developed some sort of infection which resulted in my being put on Diflucan and then a urinary tract infection which resulted in my being put on Cipro. On the morning of the surgery, I nursed our 10 month old and in the afternoon she had her first bottle.

One week after I came home, we argued about Sophia and he punched me. My arm was broken in seven pieces. I had surgery three weeks after the first surgery which was the first of three surgeries. My arm was in a cast or splint up past my elbow until April 3, when I had to go to hand therapy.

After my H punched me, we went to my therapist who sent him to an anger management therapist who asked me to talk with him. When I met with him, I said that the broken arm was perhaps 1/20th the hurt of his having had lunch with this woman on October 24th. I thought at the time that that was the last time he had seen her.

Care of four children? A piece of cake compared with the emotional trauma of the affair. All that surgery? A piece of cake compared with the emotional trauma of the affair.

Hang on... Realize that this is most probably the worst experience of your life, in particular because it is being deliberately inflicted by the person who promised to care for you for life.

And realize that people can change. My H still thinks that the problem is I won't forgive him, but is is dawning on him that he hurt me terribly. The broken arm, by the way, was emotionally inconsequential in comparison with the affair.
Cherished

[ April 15, 2004, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Cherished,

How horrible your story is. You are right, compare to the A, it hurts less, but I feel your pain. Now I am put in the spot of an ongoing A, lying and lying all the time. Why should i care about him, why should I wait for him? Why don't I just file for D, let whoever have this piece of trash.

BTW, who took care of the kids when your arm was broken? Why did you decide to stay with him?

I took care of the kids with a broken arm.

Your hurt is emotionally worse than what I had because he never was openly having an affair and trying to stay home.

The only way you can view this is that he is an addict. There actually is some evidence that romantic love is like cocaine. Your H did not take the precaution to keep from falling in love with someone else and so he is putting you through this pain. He cares about himself. He is trying to get you to the point of not caring about him so that he doesn't feel guilty about not hurting you.

Keep the faith that time will provide a much-needed perspective and respect your own feelings that he is putting you through the worst ordeal that a husband can put a wife through.

I told him once that I would have preferred that he had killed me than done this. In my own family, my aunt killed herself a few months after my uncle moved in with his lover. Then he shows up at the funeral with the OW! How sick. She bore him four children and raised them to adulthood.

That's why you need to focus on caring for yourself and viewing your husband as in the grip of an addiction, trying desperately to blame you. You can take pity on him but give the addiction a chance to die -- either through his decision at MBW or with a natural death.

I had my H listen to a call into Harley's radio show by a guy who divorced his wife and married OW and TEN YEARS LATER she has an affair with a woman and moves out. Can you imagine? He felt like their affair was justified by a special bonding and calling to work together in AA and then she has an affair on him. If your H does marry this woman, nothing can change the fact that this relationship started as a thoughtless lie.

Have to go play Candyland with the four year old now...

Cherished, thank you. I wish I can play game with my kids. But they don't. D is out to movie with her friends. S is watching TV by himself. I was suggesting to watch with him, he didn't care.

LL, I even envy you to go to Bingo. I have no social event at all and I have no friends. The only one I can talk to is my sis, but she is 15 hrs away. I wish Believer live here, so she can move in my house. Did you learn Believer's story. I feel so sorry for her.

So WH will have no place to stay and has to move out.

Lostnhurt,
I am really worried that you might become suicidal. I know how I felt, and what I hung on to was that I could not let me not yet 1 year old have a mother commit suicide. I couldn't do that to her...

Please take care of yourself. Even if you think no one loves you, God loves you and cares for you even in the midst of all this pain...

Cherished,

Thank you. I know that lots of people love me, GOD, my parents, my kids, my si and brother, and all my MB friends. That thought invaded me few times, I fought with it. I won't let everyone who loves me down. Thanks.

Lostnhurt,
I'm glad of that. You are in my prayers.
Cherished

LNH,

Yes, I just finished reading Believer's post. She's been through so much with her WH. This is so sad. If she were here, I'd somehow make sure she had the money so she could just stay where she is and think on it a while. I will pray for her--that the money can somehow work out so that she doesn't have to move. I am fortunate. I may not have a lot, but because my WH is paying me child support willingly, I can make the house payments without a problem, unless an emergency comes up.

Bunco was fun tonight, and took my mind off things for about 3 hours, but then I have to come back home and face the thoughts again. I know what you mean about kids not wanting to do things with you. With my two both being teens, they are frequently either out doing things or they just want to watch TV or hang out in their rooms or on the phone. I feel very lonely. Sometimes it'd be better, I think, to have small children. At least they NEED you. I'd feel like I have a purpose.

Other than Bunco once a month, I have no social life either. It's been sort of nice because DS has been hosting his friends' poker games here quite often now that WH isn't around. It's not that I'm actively involved in things with him, but it's just nice to have people around the house. Their visiting and laughter creates a diversion. I am going to REALLY miss him when he leaves for college this fall. If WH hasn't given up the A and come home by then, it'll just be DD and me wandering around the house, and as often as she is out with friends, it's going to be very lonely. But we shouldn't think too far ahead...

I do continue to pray for you. I pray that you are able to hold out to the MBW and that it gets through to your WH. You have to be positive. And I'll miss posting to you while you're there and, before that, on your cruise. I do hope you have a wonderful time.

And if you come back, and things don't change, if he ends up moving out for a while, it may lessen your pain just a little. I know you can't see that right now, but I do speak from experience and you know how weak I am.

I wish my WH wouldn't have moved because now I think it will be an uphill battle to get him back, but I am sleeping decently most nights where I wasn't when he was still living at home. Before, when he wasn't home by 11 or midnight, I was either worried sick because I didn't know where he was, or he'd called and I knew where he was and who he was with and that made me sick. Now, because I'm not expecting him home and he doesn't call to check in at night, I don't have those thoughts as much.

And I think getting more sleep has helped my stomach just a little. I don't have your issues, but I was really so nauseaus for a few months that I had to force food down, and for probably three weeks ate very little except for nutritional drinks like Ensure. I still can't gain back any weight back, most likely because I'm still very anxious and nervous and upset, but at least I can eat and even have an appetite some days.

I know there times where you don't think you can face another day if things don't change. I have been attending Al-Anon to try and deal with WH's alcoholism, and I have a book marker with "thoughts for today" on it.

One that is applicable to our situation: "Just for today--I will try to live through this day only, and not tackle all my problems at once. I can do something for twelve hours that would apall me if I felt that I had to keep it up for a lifetime."

Keep praying. Keep reading God's word. Keep posting on here.

LL

Remember guys, that even some of the most "spirtually" strong and those close to Jesus in the Bible had similar feelings, even ministers and pastors today. How do any of us know that what we are doing is God's will? This will be a question we will ask ourselves the rest of our lives. The only thing is that we can let God comfort us and give us strength while we are trying to figure out what HIS will is.

lost, hope things are going well for you today. i am just now realizing that your signature line doesn't tell "us." anything! i feel like i know what's going on w/you but need more to fill in the picture. could you please update your sig line to show ages, how long you've been married, kids, etc.? thanks, and of course continued prayers to you.

LL,

Thank you for your inside. Without all your support, I won't be able to survive through. I keep praying everyday, allmost all the time. Please e-mail me your phone number, so we can talk when we are lonely.

I read your post about your session with Jennifer. I feel your fear and pain about what she said. But just like what you said, we live our life day by day, let GOD handle the rest of it.

Now everyday in the morning, I praise GOD and thank him for another day. I pray that I can be more loving, from the bottom of my heart, toeveryone. The love is coming from GOD. I pray for GOD to change me completely. I stop praying for what I worried, that is the situation I am in. I put that all in HIS hand. That made me feel better.

Just talked to D, she worried so much. She shouldn't in her age. But it is a good sign that she is willing to talk with me. I will try my best to help her. In that way, I will try to forget about WH, let GOD take care of him.

I think that my heart is so numb already. Wh came home at 11:30pm. Me and S were still watching a tape, D just came back from her movie. I was so tired, I mean both phyisical and mental, I went to bed with headache and a Xenax. It didn't matter to me whether he was home or not at all.

How sad...

When my H saw the damage he had done by breaking my arm, the A got even more sexual and intense. He felt bad about how he treated me and sought comfort from her.

Looking back now, I appreciate the pain he was in seeing how he was destroying me and our family, but he needed her even more....

Just take care of yourself and trust that Harley's program will bring him out of this if anything does.

I am beginning to see that there may be some potential for our M, but it's been a long two years... Hang on to hope, realize that you will have a different perspective in two years no matter what happens, and take care of yourself as well as you can for the next few days. He is very unlikely to end contact before the MBW because he has no reason to. The test will be whether he is willing at the MBW and, if not, Plan B which will be a lot easier to handle than what you are doing now.

Cherished,

I am so glad that things are working out in you. I praise GOD for that.

As for me, i don't expect anything now. I just want the whole thing be over soon. I will try my best to do what I can, but not to expect. That way when I look back, i say that I did my best, and no regret, whatever the outcome is. I hope that this state of mind will last too.

Thinking of you all the time.

Lostnhurt,
That is the best attitude you can have. You will do your best and respect that he has his own decision to make.
Cherished

Cherished,

My D is in deep depression. She was crying and sad. I just hung up with her and have to rush home now. I totally understand how she feels. But she showed a totally different face to her dad, which made me such a bad person. It is double dip to me now.

Lostnhurt,
Hang on now for just a few more days. If you go to Plan B now, he may see the MBW as an opportunity to waffle and not make a break with OW. If you can hang on now, you can keep to a resolve to go to Plan B after MBW if he doesn't go to NC. Count the hours...

I think you are likely to need Plan B and it will be your only way to be open to him when he gets to the point of realizing that the A was a fantasy and OW is a woman, not a goddess...
Cherished

Cherished, I am hanging on here. But my children are so hard. D is very very unhappy. I don't know how to help her.

S is showing a sign too. It is such a nice day outside, I even can't get them outside. I offer to ride a bik or walk, but they refused to go. D was crying so hard, her mood swing so badly. If she is in my situation, she already died 100 times. I really worry about her.

well lost, i'm taking off, i don't have computer access where i live now but will be checking back on monday. i don't know if it would help to think this way but consider the MBW the one thing that is needed for your H to wake up and for your M to recover. maybe that will help you last until then. you never know what kind of miracles are in store for you and your H and maybe the MBW is when those miracles will "start" to happen. don't have any advice about the kid situation, i don't have any and haven't really been around kids a lot. i would just spoil them right now but i'm not sure that's the best answer either. don't forget to update your signature line please!! prayers to you.

RR, thank you for your prayers. I am very very upset myself. But I still have to be strong. It is very hard, but I am hanging in here. I kept counting the days now. I have hope, but I can not expect.

I hope you have a great weekend. Prayers for you too. Prayers for you, Cherished.

My bad feeling is haunting me again. I have to do something to stop it.

We just rode the bike to McDonald. Now we came back, I havn'r eaten yet. I rpomise the kids to take them to the mall to look at the puppies. I hope that will help.

I feel like I am in Plan B already, lonely and sad.

Hang in there everyone. We can do this. Please don't worry about me. I have 2 mobile homes, so I can move in with my boys if I have to. However I would rather not.

I'm still very irritated with my WH's lies and self-centeredness. He was never like that before.

Believer,

Thank you. I've been thinking about you all the time. I wish you are here. So I can give you a big hug. I need a hug too.

LNH,

Sorry, have been busy at work today and haven't had time to post until now. I am leaving but have some errands to run. Will be back on later tonight. I will email you my phone number from my AOL account when I get home. I don't do a lot of emailing from my work account for personal reasons.

Do go to the mall and look at the animals. Puppies are about the best because dogs love with such unconditional love. Like I said, anything you can do to force yourself to physically move around will help you, if you're like me. It's just SO hard to make yourself do it when you hurt, and I know how extra-hard it is when the kids are having problems, because I have that, too.

Hang in there.

LL

LL,

you know what, it was so hard to get D to ride the bike to McDonald, I finally yelled at her. She rode with tears, then in 1 minute, things got better. On the way back, she felt great.

I also made appointment to see a conselor for her next Monday. I taped my conversation with D to let Wh listen to it, so he won't think that I am making things up. Actually i rushed to best buy to buy the tape recorder before coming home.

I am leaving for the mall now. Talk to yu later.

Lostnhurt- Please see my post under general questions - about a PFC captured in Iraq. He needs prayers.

Just prayed with D. We prayed that D's condition will be better, i will have less stress, WH will open his heart and return home under GOD, and peace in the world, expecially the people in Iraq. We all had tear.

Wh did call and disappeaed again, which not unusaual. So we went to the mall and saw puppies. Then we went to Sharper Image got some free massage, it feels good. But when we got home, the kids fought again. So I told them that that is the way how a war started. If they want peace, they have to do it from themselves.

Lostnhurt,
You are not in Plan B right now. You are in Plan A. When you are in Plan B, your H is not welcome to be in contact with you unless he is willing to go through a program of recovery that starts with NC with OW. There is a big difference between what you are doing now and what you will be doing if you go to Plan B. This will not last long.
Cherished

Cherished, your words are always comforting and full with wisdom. I praise GOD for sending you.

I'm glad I can help. I cannot lessen the pain but can tell you that this pain will not continue indefinitely. Please keep to your resolve to go to Plan B if he doesn't buy into the program after MBW. Your health can be destroyed. That gives you just a few days of the worst pain you will ever feel but at least you know that it will not last. Part of your pain is he is trying to blame you. He has a lot of pain too but he brought it on himself.

Cherished, You are right. I have a lot of pain. Another sleepless night. I called MIL. She told me the same thing. I am hanging in here just for few more days. But I don't know how to lessen the pain. It is very very hurtful.

I just prayed so hard. I prayed for the captured person in Iraq, I prayed that GOD take my burden and give me guidance and peace. I am reading the Bible now.

Oh, I wish everything is over soooooon.

Lostnhurt,
There is no way to lessen the pain except by going to Plan B NOW. But even I hope you don't know. Use the pain you have now to strengthen your resolved to go to Plan B after MBW because I think it would be best if you assumed you will need to.

So -- consider if you are ready... Do you have a lawyer? You will need to file for legal separation at minimum because you cannot trust he will honor his financial commitment to the family just like he was unwilling to honor his promise of sexual exclusivity to you. Look at believer's story...Finding a lawyer, pulling together financial paperwork, etc.... All of that takes time. If you focus on that for the next few days, that can help.

If he continues to see OW after the MBW, and you don't go to Plan B, you're in for a long Plan A probably... He'll know he can have both of you on his terms...

So -- how prepared are you to kick him out?
Cherished

Cherished,

I am ready. But not legally ready. I don't know what to do with the legal steps, and not planed to do that.

I am in control of all the finance of the family. Let me put it this way, we can go without starving for 10 years if he doesn't support me(I mean minimum living). I have income too. So all I do will me letting him move out volunterrily since that is what he wants. Then I ask for NC. He can have the kids for weekends. I need to teach on Satrudays in summer till the end of June.

I think it may be better if you took legal steps for separation because then the consequences come home, especially if the move is made immediately with any contact after MBW.

See if you can check into legal separation. Here in Minnesota there is a list of top lawyers, and I met three and decided on one.

You don't want to lessen the impact of his bad behavior.

How do I get him to act, instead of me?

Lostnhurt -
You don't. You don't have control over his actions. The most important thing to realize is that you don't have control. Someone once posted the mantra for spouses of alcoholics and it was something like "You aren't the cause, you can't control, and you can't cure..." The best you can do is set up consequences for his bad behavior that doesn't make you look like the problem and which lessens the impact of his bad behavior on you. If he is willing to continue the affair, then the consequence is that you limit his ability to hurt you by establishing a financial situation (legal separation) which forces him to support the family and by keeping him from being in contact with you -- until he has agreed to go through the MB recovery program.

Cherished

lostnhurt - I was thinking about you last night and wondering about OW. You are such a good woman, wonderful mother and wife. What is the OW like?

Cherished, money is not an issue here. He is not short of money, even he pay me 1/2 of his salary, he still has a lot to use by himself. He also said that I can have all we have now, in that case, he even doesn't have to pay. That is not server enough as consequence. so I don't know whether legal seperation is the path. All I want now is that he takes his stuff out of the house and don't show me his face.

Believer, I was thinking of you too. i talked to Lordslady today, we both worried about your housing situation. But we know that GOD is taking care of you. I don't want to think about OW, from what she did, you know what she is like. This is her 2nd A, she left her 2 year old S and 6 year old D. What do you think?

I just went to my parents and had lunch with them. I was so tired, I took a little nap after lunch. After that we went grocery shopping, then we went to library. I got Divorce Busting.

Lostnhurt -

Don't worry about me. I will do what I need to do to take care of me and my boys. So don't give it another thought. I was just disappointed in WH. But what's new about that?

I was curious about the attraction of OW. Yes I know what her character is.

Also I forgot to tell you about the fish. The easy way to keep the tank clean is to change out a fourth of the water every week. Just scoop it out and replace with new water with anti-chorine. Then it will always look nice and fresh. Also snails help keep it clean, but tend to multiply.

And before you get a dog, be sure that you want to walk it and care for it. Kids always promise they will, but soon lose interest.

Believer, I don't know how to describe OW. She is few years younger, taller*couple inches). I don't think she is prettier. That is about it.

Thanks for your reminder for the fish. kids tried to change it now, so I told them what you said.

Actually I want a dog now. I am so lonely and sad now. I think that maybe walking with a dog will help instead of walking by myself. I am jsut very very down now. I feel so tired physically and mentally, partly because I am having period now. I took them to mall, shopping, library, I don't know what else I can do. I want to sleep for a long time.

Well I was just wondering. You are so talented, and smart. You have been a wonderful wife and mother. So I am trying to figure out the attraction.

My niece has been going through this for 2 years. She is drop dead gorgeous. She works as an RN in oncology and was a wonderful wife and mom. Her WH left her for an average looking single mom who is on welfare. I still haven't figured that one out.

It is a waste of our energy to figure out things like this. Their brains are in drug. They are abducted by aliens. There is no way to explain this, only we know the pain.

lostnhurt -

You are exactly right. I am a very logical thinker. I always try to figure things out, but these things make no sense, and it is a waste of time to think on them.

Kids are fighting again. I lose my temper. I guess i am putting my frustration on them. Life is not fair, why do i have to be the only one to deal with them? I feel so hurt and sad.

I love them, but at some point, I want to be the one who leave and let Wh take care of the mess.

Well, if it gets too bad, you can always come out to California. Stay here with me. You can learn to surf, go to the beach everyday, and have fun, fun, fun.

Thank you believer. I already feel so guilty for going to the cruise. D was very unhappy about it.

I told MIL yestrday, she seemed understandable. I wish to have a complete family, someone share all the feeling, laugh, sadnees and kids, everything. I don't mind to do more, that has been what I did already. But this emotion blow is killing me.

You might want to let your daughter know what is going on. Children are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.

I remember when I was 12, many, many, many years ago. My dad would go out every night after we went to bed. I sat in my room and cried, waiting for him to come home, looking out the window.

I never confronted my mom with this until I was about 35, with kids of my own. She still denied that anything went on. So I guess I will never know. My parents are still together and seem to be very happy.

However the toll on my sister and I was very high. My sister had a nervous breakdown at 30 and ended up in a psychiatric ward. She is doing well now. She went to Harvard, and is now a partner in a law firm. But she has never had a steady relationship with a man.

I told them there are problems, but left the details.

I am not them, if I were them I would do everything to make the family together. That is just me. I felt that I am the only one who want this family, they don't care. Even in laws don't care. I just feel so bad.

LNH,

Just checking in on you. I enjoyed talking with you this morning. I hope you were able to get out a little today.

My morning went very well, but now I'm very, very low again. WH had actually agred to take me out to dinner tonight (agreed last night and seemed okay with the idea).

Didn't call by 4pm today so I called cell and of course, no answer, so called mutual friend (who I have now decided is NOT a friend). He was there. Fine, she put him on the phone. He sounded like he'd been drinking so I asked if he rode the cycle down. He did. I told him I wanted to go out, but that he had no business driving the cycle home. He hung up.

I called back. No one would answer phone, so I left a message asking what was up, and asking someone to call me back and let me know if he was okay to drive.

Of course mutual not-friend called, AFTER they let him leave, and started in on me about calling and then calling back and what was she supposed to say and it didn't do any good to call back after he hung up, blah, blah, blah.

I was angry. Told her I wanted to know where he went. She didn't know, but started in on me about how maybe is unfair but that since I won't talk with her about things anymore, she didn't feel she needed to talk to me. I told her I've been hanging back because I"m afraid something else will come out that I don't want him to know (like her telling him about the door).

She got mad and started defending herself. I got mad and started down the path of "why does he get to spend all the money and I don't even have enough to send DS to college?"

Dumb statement on my part. She lit into me about what I spent on Jennifer's session and how wasteful that is and how that money should go to DS's college. Again, I said, I am stuck w/house payment and home equity loan because WH is now going to live in camper that was supposed to be sold. I said, "You're never going to admit that he is doing anything wrong or should take any responsibility, are you?"

That made her even agrier and she said she was done with the conversation. I told her I wouldn't be calling her again until he decided one way or the other what he was doing.

But now I've also left three text messages (kind, and fairly simple) on his phone telling him I am sorry if I accused him of something that wasn't true, but that I worry about his safety, and that I would still like to go out with him if he's willing. He hasn't called back, so tried to call him. Of course, no answer.

I'm sure I ran him right back to OW's arms again, because she likes nothing better than to drink the weekend away.

I hurt. That's all I can say. I just hurt really bad again and I want to just crawl in a hole and dry up.

I was going to hold out and not Plan B until after he decided what he was going to do about housing at the end of the month, and was even maybe going to wait until DS's graduation because of all that goes on between now and then.

I can't imagine not hearing from him at all. I just know he's never coming back again. I talked to my DD's friend's mother today when I picked her up and her mother's father left his wife after 20 years of M and M the OW. His own father did the same thing.

This is what MY WH's father did--after about 19 years of M, he left and M the OW. Now I'm at 19 years of M. It's like a horrible pattern repeating. I want him back SO bad.

And in my gut I just have this feeling that it's over.

I really do think if your WH is seeing an OW who is M already, that you have a much better chance of the A ending and getting him back.

I am sick right now. And I haven't eaten because I've been busy. And I'm trying to mow the lawn and can't figure out how to get the stupid bag back on the mower. I'm about to pass out from the heat.

I feel very unloved and lonely right now.

LL

LL, I really concern about you. Do you want me to call you? Did you have dinner yet?

I may soon have the lawn mowing problem. I've never touched the lawn mower before. I may have to hire someone to do it. Fortunately it is not that hot here yet, i don't need to mow the lawn, let him waorry about it now.

I finally got the lawn mowed, once I figured out how to put the bag back on. Without an instruction manual, I'm stupid at things like that. Now my problem is that I need to fertilize. I bought the stuff, but I can't get our drop spreader out of the garage attic. I have NO IDEA how he got it up there, but it's stuck. So I guess that will wait.

No, I haven't had dinner yet. I haven't even had lunch. I had breakfast right after you and I talked. Then I ran a couple errands, picked up DD from friend's house, took her to another friend's to pick some things up and by the time I got back home, it was time to go to the salon for my hair-color appointment. Didn't get out of there until 4:30 and then DD called again. She and friend were at a picnic at a lake on the other side of town and needed a ride home. So back I went to pick them up.

On the way to pick them up was when I placed the call and found WH at mutual person's house, and well, you know the story from there.

I feel awful. I'm doing everything I know not to do. Everything I told you not to do (BECAUSE I know not to do it). I've pushed him right back into OW's arms.

I need to go to a real Plan B and I need to do it now. I need to write the letter, again, and give it to him and mean it and stick to it and just, as he says, "buck up" and deal with life. I am miserable right now. And my house is really hot because I didn't turn the A/C on yet because it's only April, but now it's almost 90 degrees in the house. (It was finally turned on a few minutes ago, but will take hours to cool down the upstairs.) It's too early to sleep.

And you know what. I really DID feel good this morning. But I think it was a combination of talking to someone (you), having such a nice time yesterday on the ride with him, having hope that he was going to take me out tonight, and then the sun coming out and warming up the day very nicely.

Now it's almost dark, I'm lonely, and it hurts.
I have to get something to eat from somewhere or I'll be really sick tomorrow. How late are you up usually?

LL

LL, I am sorry for what you've been running through. Go back to Plan B, you should feel better.

I was talking to my sister, then I fixed the dinner. And ORchid called me, because i called her earlier. I didn't feel good untill talking to Orchid, she is really bright. We had a good laugh on WS scripts. I feel much better now. Then I did some prepartion for tomorrow;s sunday school. Kids are still watching TV. I have to get them to bed. I usually stay up late, I can call you.

LNH,

I'm still alive. Feeling a wee bit better since going out with DD to pick up some food and to Target for a few things. Hopefully I've calmed down enough that I can go to sleep soon and sleep through the night.

I really do need to go to Plan B. I know. I wish now that today had never happened and that we'd have just left everything the way it was yesterday, with the great memories of the motorcycle ride and laughing, and then go to a Plan B at that point. Now we have ugly things between us to think about again.

He hasn't called at all tonight. Hasn't left messages. Nothing.

Plan B actually feels like it might be peaceful, and then I start thinking about how I won't get to hear his voice or know he's okay, and how I might not for weeks, or months, or ever--until he decides to file for D and we have to deal with it or something. I am just so afraid of losing him, and even though I know what I'm doing right now isn't making things any better, it's like I'm frozen. I can't make myself make that decision.

I do have a new Plan B letter written just in case. It is not really like what Dr. Harvey gives as an example in his book, and is too long, but if I get closer to giving it to him, I might ask for your input on what you think of it.

I enjoyed talking to you this morning, and hope to again soon. I'm sure you had a good conversation with Orchid. She seems to have such good advice and posts on here. And she's a success story.

Along with posting here, I sent you an email as well.

Take care.

LL

LL, Got your e-mail too. I feel the sadness for you, actually I am in the same boat. Last night I called you, your home phone was busy, ileft you a message on your cell. Just to wish you feel good.

I am no expert for Plan B letter, but i will very glad to give my input. I may steal yours too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Do not think about H too much, I know it is harder to do than say. Look, my Wh disappeared since Thurdsay, no call for, nothing. I don't mind he does not call for me, but he even didnt care about the children. I view it as a pre-Plan B practice. I did not call him at all.

Last night I called sis. We talked a lot how to put our trust in GOD. We try to put our situation on GOD and let him take care of things. We prayed for peace. I actually got few hours of sleep last night. I will keep praying for that.

I will go to church around 10:45, may be back about 1:30pm. We can talk then.

Cherished, are you there? How are you doing? Thinking of you.

Lostnhurt,
Yes, I'm here. I've been reading your messages and following along.

I called Harley on his radio show in August, 2002 to ask about telling the kids. I had told them "Daddy kissed Sophia on the lips" and "Daddy broke Mommy's arm" and I felt guilty about it... He said it was best to tell them. I remember asking "But the three year old.." and he said "even the three year old..."

The kids have heard so much about Harley that that now almost 5 year old once brought up wanting to see the movie "Scooby Doo meets Dr. Harley" when in fact it was "Scooby Doo meet Laurel and Hardy"...

Anyway, my H brought up wanting to run last night as a way for his needs to be met, and I told him I am not sure how it can be done without it being a negative for me. I said that it sounds so reasonable and I would be more open to I sacrifice for you and you sacrifice for me mentality if it hadn't gotten so extreme. Like many other things he's done, he pushed his needs to the limit -- ran a marathon two years ago while having an affair.

Anyway, I am finding one trememdous benefit of this program is that it is giving me insight into why I was so upset about the affair as compared with the abuse and it is helping me to change in how I deal with the children.

Harley told me in an e-mail recently that we are just at the beginning of recovery, and I think that's right.

I do not find it surprising that your H disappeared since Thursday night, and I think it is probably for the best. He may be testing Plan B himself and may decide he won't attend the MBW. That makes your decision to go to Plan B so much more obviously appropriate.

From my perspective, you may want to see if you can get the materials and attend the MBW later. Then, when your H is ready to move home, you let him know that the condition of return is going through the program, which has as a life long commitment 15 hours per week of undivided one on one attention between the two of you.

I'll be checking to see how you are doing...
Cherished

Cherished, thank you so much. I don't mind him disappeared at all. I am getting ready to take a walk and then go to church. I don't have to worry about leaving him home alone, and how he feels about me.

He didn't say he is not going to MBW, so I assume that he is going. He has to be hom ewith the kids while I am in cruise, then go to Ca, he is stucked with the kids for more than a week, let him get the taste of a single parent.

Lostnhurt, I think that his being home with the kids will cause a lot of guilt and concern about what contact he'll have with you and him divorced.

My H contacted a lawyer who asked two questions: Did anyone have an affair? and Was there any physical abuse?

My H said yes to both questions but then said he was attending an anger management weekly group. He brought up contact with the kids and his concern about it, and the lawyer said, "Get used to it" about limited contact.

Let the consequences of your H's actions fall squarely on his shoulders.

I remember once some anguished parents being interviewed about a 30-something son who was living at home, unemployed and in debt. The interviewer said, "That kid needs to have some problems." The parents said something like, "He's got lots of problems" and the interviewer said, "No, YOU'VE got lots of problems. He's got free rent, free food, free laundry service, no need for a job..."

You seem to be doing a good job of letting your H figure out the consequences of his actions... It's hard for a BS to accept, but the WH shouldn't stay M if he would be happier elsewhere -- and it may take your WH time to figure out if he is happier with a cheater or with a wife and family.
Cherished

[ April 18, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Cherished,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You seem to be doing a good job of letting your H figure out the consequences of his actions... It's hard for a BS to accept, but the WH shouldn't stay M if he would be happier elsewhere -- and it may take your WH time to figure out if he is happier with a cheater or with a wife and family.
<hr /></blockquote>You are so right. I will let him figure out by himself. I still have pain, but I wish it iwll be lessen day by day. I need to keep going. If he choose to destroy himself, let it be.

LL- Get rid of that "friend". You are better off with no friends.

Lostnhurt - Somehow we have to get you out doing things. If you have no friends, then join a class or group. Here are some ideas - join a women's support group, a church group, take a class, learn to shoot a gun, dance, yoga, make stained glass, join an astronomy club, a photography club, an art class.

There are millions of things to do, you must find something just for you. I know your family and husband come first, but to take care of them, you need to take care of you.

And, I know I shouldn't talk because I do it too, but there is really more to life than your H and your kids if you look around you. When they are busy and not around do stuff for yourself. Soak your feet, take a bath, meditate, get some binoculars and look at the birds in your yard, if you get a bird book you could see how many different birds come around your house. I love birds, I have several bluebird boxes in the yard and I have several broods every year. In fact it is hummingbird season now, so I should get my feeders out for them too. If you think about it there is so much more to life than just sitting home and in front of the tv or computer. I am just having a blast in life again. When I want to go, I just get in the car and go. No honey I'll be back to cook dinner, or phone calls or anything to worry about. Remember they are the ones tied down not us. Go on a mini-vacation to a weekend spa, I would if I had enough money believe me. I could use some pampering, a facial, jacuzzi, massage I would love something like that. Take your sister with you for a weekend. Just do something for K for a change, you deserve it!

HINY

Girls, you are so right. I did go for a walk this morning for almost an hour. I will go again after this posting.

After walking, I went to church. I taught Sunday school for little kids. I will do VBS in June, which I did for 3 years already. Today I finally told this whole thing to one of the Elder's wife, I cried. She was so supportive and prayed with me. She offered to talk to WH. I said that i will tried.

When we came home, it was already 3pm. I was so scared to see the garage door was open. I thought that i forgot to close the garage door. But I saw Wh's car. Kids were very happy and screm daddy is home. But I was sad and mad. I finally feel better, there he comes. i can't wait till Plan B. But I just said hi to him, he sat in the computer, and now went to bed. I decide to take a long walk now.

Lostnhurt -

I promise you that he will come back to the marriage. But you need to do your part and take care of you. Start getting busy. There has to be something you can do. You have been in limbo too long.

Believer, yes, you are right. I am getting myself busy.

I just went for a walk for an hour again. i am going to church now to pick up a book about fidelity.

D is whining again. i think that she is more in depression than I am. She doesn't want to do anything and complain that there is nothing to do. I offered to paly with her, anything, soccer, bike, games, she refused.

lostnhurt - You need to come along side her and help her. You need to tell her what is going on. She is smart and knows there is something. Give her credit and confide in her.

Yes, I told her. We prayed every night at bedtime too. She started with anxiety problem, not it gets worse. So I am takin gher to see another conselor tomorrow. Hope it helps.

Just came back from church for a testimony book for surviving infidelity. I am going to read it tonight. When I just came in, S and D were outside playing, WH was washing his car, what a great family picture.

Finished dinner. Read an article form the book I got from church. This lady wrote about her H's affair. The whole thing lasted 3 years. Oh, my goodness, my D-day was just past 3 months. I can't imagine for 3 years. That is the time sis told me today too. But I will hang in here, be strong, find something that I can enjoy.

After MBW, it will be in the summer, I plan to take the kids to picinic, fishing, just enjoy our life.

LNH,

I think you did the right thing telling your DD. She is old enough to understand. I actually thought my DD knew from the time I found about about my WH's A, but somehow she didn't. She found out by accident in December while at my parents' house, and was VERY angry at him and equally angry that I hadn't told her. My DS has known all along because WH told him (looking for justification, maybe?)

It sounds like you had a better day today, at least until your WH came home. I'm glad you got out and walked and spent time outdoors. That's what I did, too, though I didn't walk but messed around in the yard and in my garden boxes. It does us good to get moving and get some fresh air, I think.

I actually did watch the birds for a while today as I took a break from my yardwork. We have mainly robins, sparrows, blackbirds, and a few raspberry finches right now, but I actually think I saw a pair of bluebirds, which aren't all the common here. They sure looked blue when the light shined on them as they sat on my fence. It was just very relaxing watching the birds and listening to the sounds as the breeze blew over me.

I have been trying very hard not to think about WH today, not to wonder what he's doing, and not to worry about him. I am trying hard to come to grips with the fact that I am only responsible for my own decisions and actions. I can't control his. This, along with patience to wait this thing out, is probably what I struggle with most. I am so used to taking charge, to fixing things, to doing things. In this case I can't. All I can do is wait.

Did the woman in your book reconcile with her WH at the end of the 3 years? Did his A end?

Like I said, I work with a woman who waited 3 years on her WH, too. They went through two D filings. The first was thrown out because of delays on her part. The second went through, finally, and right after it, her H and the OW broke off, and she and H are now happily remarried.

But 3 years seems SO long to me, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm only about 7 months into this. I can't imagine 1 year.

LL

It's just amazing, but in the program, I am getting to the point where I realize that making a commitment for life no matter what is just an invitation for abuse. There needs to be a mutual commitment to care no matter what.

That gives me the willingness to let Tom go if he thinks that is in his best interest. I cannot sacrfice my self-respect and self-interest to keep him here and besides it just plain didn't work when that's what I did.

Lostnhurt, you've made it another day. Congratulations! I think you are far better prepared for this program than I was two months ago when I went into it.
Cherished

Hi, friends. Thank you for your encouragement.

But the WH showing up really throw me off. I have work to do, but I don't want to do oit. I am going to walk agian to make me feel better, so I can do my work.

There are 4 stories in the book I was reading, one women was reconciled with WH, but the other did not. I still have two to read. I have to keep my mind open, I can not just think about one solution. Like Cherished said, if he really wants to go, just let go.

Focus on your own dignity as a child of God. It is very difficult. I am realizing as I write to you that we are in a much more similar situation than I had first thought. My H seems to be trying to decide if I'm worth the effort. That is very difficult to face. It is easier to face if you know that it is up to your H, not to you.

well hello lost, it took me awhile to get caught up w/your posts but wanted you to know i'm still thinking about you and praying for you. as far as the getting a dog thing, go to a shelter or an animal welfare society and adopt a dog, not a puppy. help yourself by helping a dog who was "thrown" away for whatever reason and give them some happiness. You could also do some volunteer work like at a soup kitchen, women's shelter, or the humane society. i know you know there are people out there worse off then us and by giving to them it can help you heal as well. maybe your kids would want to volunteer at an animal shelter as well.

just some ideas to consider. you only have a few days left before the cruise so hang in there. remember you're in marathon not a sprint. we are all human and if something happens that you don't want or didn't expect just pick yourself up and start fresh the next day. prayers to you.

Just walked for another hour. I kept praying while walking. I feel safe to talk to GOD.

Cherished, I realized now that the whole thing is not up to me, not to Wh either, it is totally up to GOD. GOD will handle the whole thing. I will accept anything HE give me with joy, joy from heart. It was amzing that last night before bed time, kids and I were ready to pray, WH came over, I invited him to pray with us. He did. He is not a believer, his heart is very hard. But he did hold our hands, we took turn praying. He only said one sentence, wish all of us health and happy. I said Haleluja. This morning, he asked me when we are going to MB weekend, he is going to take a day off. I praise GOD for everhthing, but I still look upon GOD. I will not let human's action to rule my mind now.

RR, thank you for all your suggestion. I am going to looking into some volunteer oppotunity after the MB weekend, or get involved in more church work.

Well my WH showed up last night and spent the night here. He is still very mixed up. He said he loves me and wants to be married, but also loves his OW. I was nice to him. So now I will go back to Plan B, or whatever plan I am in. Oh, he did pay the rent, so I won't get thrown out.

Hang in there, yours will come around. They are just very addicted.

Believer, good for you. You are so strong. The story I read about lastnight, was a lady went through this for 3 years. Like you, she was just being nice to her WH, he was going back and forth between her and OW. He knew it was wrong, but he couldn't give up OW. They have 4 daughters. Finally, one day WH was in an airplane and an Priest sat next to him. He told the priest about the struggle, the priest told him to go back to his wife now. So he went back to his wife instead of OW right off the plane. But it was 3 years since D-day.

She was devestated. She drove a car try to run over OW, she tried to cut OW hair b/c she though maybe her long hair attractec her WH. I was laughing on her acts. She was arrested and stayed overnight in the police. Her pastor bailed her out and got a lawyer for her so she didn't have to be thrown to the jail. But she had the court order to saty away from OW at aleast 100 ft. There were other stupid acts too, that took her a year. Finally she repend to GOD and calm her self down.

But you are so nice, I think that it will save you at least a year. Orchid told me hers went through 3 years.

My WH also admitted he spent $100. on a tatoo for OW last week. Her BH called me today and told me he was very upset that she would get a tatoo, but never spends any money for food or clothes for her 12 year old daughter.

He said all his friends and family told him not to let her be around his daughter. I told him I thought a 12 year old girl needs her mom. She learned good values from her dad, so I think contact with mom is important.

By the way, the tatoo is a heart with barbed wire around it. OW told her H that is was to protect her heart from being broken.

So what is OW's H attitude? Is he in this board? Does he want a D? how did he survive?

He is very sad, but getting on with his life. He takes care of his daughter and works, so he doesn't have a lot of time. He is a good man, and a great father.

I think he would take his wife back, although he says he won't. I told him about this site, but so far he has not come here.

But he has become a good friend, and we support each other. The weird thing is that OW tells my WH that her daughter is the most important thing in the world to her. That makes her husband laugh. I told my WH if that is true, why doesn't she spend some time with her daughter?

OW tells my H that she does spend time with her daughter, and my H believes her. But she spends less that an hour a week with her.

[ April 19, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: believer ]

Well, they all say the same things. B/c tehy follow the WS handbook.

Just come back from D's conseling session. It was long.

But my bad feeling is haunting me now. I have to do something to get rid of it. Oh, how I wish to get off the rollercoaster ride.

Hang in there, girl. It will get better some day. Just keep walking or keeping busy. Sooner or later, you will start feeling good again.

LNH,

I'm convinced that getting lots of exercise is really helpful. I felt better yesterday, and now today as I sit at my desk all day, my mind starts to wander and I start worrying that WH will rent a different apartment at the end of the month, move OW in with him, and never be able to break free.

I have to keep reminding myself that I can't make his decisions for him. I have to just trust God.

Believer,

At least your WH didn't get a matching tattoo with his OW, did he? Did I mention on here that my WH got his second matching one with OW a couple weeks ago. It's a stupid purple 4-leaf clover on his chest. So no matter which side I see of him, the back side or the front side, if he ever comes back to me I'll see a reminder of her. They have matching symbols for "affection" or "love" tattooed on the back of their necks.

I'm glad to hear your housing situation is solved for a while longer. I was concerned for you. It's difficult enough going through what you're going through, without having to lose your house.

I think I'm going to leave work a little early today and go home and fix dinner, and then maybe try and start that stenciled leaf border I've been wanting to do forever in my master bath.

LNH, you're such a good decorator, maybe someday I'll email you a couple pictures of my house and you can tell me what you think it needs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LL

Hey everyone, I had a good day today. OW's H called me 3 times wanting to know what is going on. OW stayed with her BH every night last week, then on Saturday, moved out all of her things. BH thinks she moved in with my WH. I dropped him off at his house this AM and didn't see any sign of her, but you all know how sneaky they can be.

LL - If I get a tatoo, it will be my WH's name - and I'll put it on my #ss.

LNH,

How are you doing? Only 4 more days until your cruise! Is it just you and your sister going? I'm envious--I've never been on a cruise.

I've been trying to keep busy to keep myself calm and my mind off things. Tonight I forgot to mail my parents' bills and one needed to go out immediately, so had run back downtown to the main post office where I knew they'd be processed tonight. I asked DD if she'd like to go with me and then out to eat. She actually agreed, so I was nice and took her out for steak, even though it was a bit more expensive than I'd planned.

We had a good meal and good conversation. She seems more pleasant. I'm not sure if it was the night she spent in the psychiatric unit, if the Zoloft is starting to work, or if things are just going her way, but whatever it is, it's working right now. She still gets moody and cranky but hasn't been so consistently moody as before.

I hope your DD is able with prayer and counseling and your support to get through this difficult time and cheer up, too. It's tough on us, but even more so when we have kids who are struggling and we don't know how to help them.

I am praying for you, that you have strength to hang tough this week and that you have a good cruise and time to relax and get ready for the MBW.

Hopefully I can catch up with you again by phone before you go. In the mean time, post here (and always feel free to email me) and keep us updated on how things are going up in Michigan.

Believer,

Great idea for a tattoo!!

LL

Just keep taking one day at a time. Then believe that the Lord is working on this. In the story of Daniel in the lion's den, he prays for help, but his prayer is not answered right away. But his prayer was heard, and the Lord was working on it. We have to know that the Lord is taking care of this problem for us, even though we can't see it.

Good morning friends, I am here. Believer's tatoo idea is great, it makes me laugh too.

Wh was home and using the computer whole night. There is another one next to him, but I don't want to post just next to him. But I spent the whole evening helping S to do his home work, not necessaraly helping, I mean pushing. They didn't settle down till almost 10:30pm. I was so tired from walking, going back and forth diferent thing, i fell asleep right away.

But then someone pushed me at night, I woke up, it was S. It was 1am. he was crying and complaining a stuffy and bleeding nose. So I got up to help him, when I went downstairs, I saw WH was still infront of the computer. I told him that if he couldn't sleep, please take care of S, I will sleep. Then he shut off the computer right away and went straight to bed. It took me almost 2 hours to calm S down. I massaged him, gave him steam for his nose, took care of the blood, went up and down countless times, finally I gave him Benerdryl, and put to sleep. I am so exauhsted.

This morming, I got up 6am to take care of D. When I came back from dropping D to school, WH was already up and watching TV. But he told me to get S up. So I got him up, he had bleeding nose again. After, everything, I was so tired. On the way to work, I almost felt asleep and drive into the car in front of me. But I like it to be so tired, so my mind won't wonder. I kept praising GOD for everything.

LL, you did well. I wish I know how to decorate. I saw some spots of walls in my house with dirty finger prints, so I may paint them in the summer.

yes, 3 more days for the cruise, I am excited, nut also feel sad, because I have to leave the kids behind. I will miss them. Cruise was fun, I went to one in 2001, that was after 9/11, there was a crazy sale, a 5day 4 night cruise was $99 per person. That was a family fun time during Christmas. I wish there will be more time like that again.

It will be great for you to go on a cruise. Sometimes a little distance helps you look at things differently.

Also it will be good for H to have to watch the kids. He needs to get more involved with them. Tell your kids if they have problems to call WH's mother for advice.

You need to start worrying about YOU. Your WH will come back, let's be sure to keep you well until then. Don't fall asleep at the wheel.

Believer, thank you for your concern. I am taking care of myself now. I can eat and sleep when I was tired. At least my wieght didn't keep going down. It is stable. Reading a lot, especially the Bible helps me a lot. Calling friends helps me too.

How is everything on you now, it is like that your WH is turning around. I am so happy for you. I hope your financial situation gets better. Yesterday, WH wrote me a check for $3000. But haven't given me anything since January. He should have given me this amount every month.

good morning lost, make sure and catch up on sleep on the cruise that way you'll be rejuvinated for the next leg of the race. I know about the sleep and it helping you not to think about things. i just went home afterwork yesterday and went to bed and I feel a lot better this morning but i've got to get back to working out.

Has your S had nosebleeds before? i'm sure that would be kind of scary for a kid to have. I'm a nurse so hardly anything scares me, as far as medical things are concerned. Hang in there and remember God can do anything but fail and you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. prayers to you.

Lostnhurt -

I don't think my WH is turning around, but I am changing. He is retiring in 10 more days, so we will see what is next. OW is moving all of her things out of her husband's house.

I can tell she is really putting on the pressure for my WH to do something. They may even move out of state together. I don't know, but am suspicious.

Financially I will make it fine. I am paying for 2 mobile homes, plus college expenses for my 2 boys. They work, but it barely covers their food and gas. But I keep thinking I just need to hang in here for awhile longer and something good will happen.

You try to have hope too. I don't see your WH leaving you. He is just very confused right now. Try to be strong for your family. We women have done that through the centuries.

Believer, thank you for your encouragement. I know that women are strong and tough. They look weak, but they are strong like you and me and all others here.

RR, thank you for your concern. I am so glad we have a nurse here. S's nose bleed was a long history. He is 8 now. He is so used to it now. When he was little, once he bleed so bad, a lot of blood went to his stomach, and my whole bed was red, two bath towel were full of boold. He was screaming b/c of fear. I finally had to call 911. When they arrived, he just threw up all the blood. I thought he was bleeding inside which almost made me faint. But it finally stopped. Now the onlything it bothers him and me is that it is so frequent. We saw dr.. He put vasaline in his nose every night, there was a humidifier in his room. I hope he will grow out of it.

lostnhurt -

My son used to have frequent nosebleeds when he was young. It is very scary. But kids usually grow out of it.

The vaseline should help. Also be sure he does not pick his nose. When he is having a nosebleed, tip his head forward, then the blood won't go down his throat. Also you, or he can pinch the area in front of his nose, where the cartilege meets the area above his upper lip. It needs to be held for 10 minutes. That will usually stop the nosebleed.

The other thing is having good humidity thru out the house. We had an electronic air cleaner attached to the heater/AC. The doctor said that it also dried out the air too much, so I had a humidifier attached. It really seemed to help.

Believer, thans for the advice. We have everything in the house, air cleaner, whole house humidifier, one in his room. I did those pinching stuff, he knows. He knows to tip his head forward too, that was taught by the fire fighters who came in the 911 call. Now we just want him to grow out of it.

He had accomplished another thing. He just weaned his diaper at night last month. I never laughed at him about that. But WH made him feel so bad by telling him not to take him for boyscout camping. But I prayed a lot for that. Now he finally quit that. He only wet his bed once last week. I am so proud of him.

That is very good. Kids who wet the bed have no control over it, it is better not to make a big deal out of it.

You have so much weighing on you right now. Please try to have a great time on your cruise and forget about all of the problems. Pamper yourself and have fun.

When you get through this, you will know that your marriage and family could survive one of the biggest tests and thrive. That day will come, just have faith.

Believer,

You are so good. you always give me so much encouragement. I know that GOD sent youto me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> When you get through this, you will know that your marriage and family could survive one of the biggest tests and thrive. That day will come, just have faith. <hr /></blockquote>I cried so hard on this. I know I must have faith.

Believer,

I had sent you an e-mail. Please read it when you have a chance.

lost, i wanted to reply earlier but couldn't until now. first i want to say i wasn't laughing at you but i was laughing when you said that you almost fainted w/all the blood from your S nose. i never thought that a person could actually faint from the sight of blood, etc. until a few years ago when i had a patient that had a pretty large abdominal wound and i was changing the dressing. the patient's 23 yr old son (a big guy) was holding his mom's hand while i was doing this and the next thing i know he was on the floor! he had fainted! ever since then i know that people can faint if they see blood, etc. but at the same time it's kind of weird because it doesn't affect me that way. the reason why your son vomitted blood from his bloody nose is because the stomach cannot digest blood and so it "throws" it up. that's why people are told to tilt their heads forward and not back when they have a bloody nose.

anyway...of course outwardly a lot, i would even say most women do seem meak or weak but think of all the strong women in the Bible, they probably thought they were weak but we look to them as being some of the strongest women ever. God gives a lot of strength and special qualities to women and we need to just let Him use us the way he plans on using us. it's incredibly hard and probably will be fo the rest of our lives but God is right there w/us, letting us lean on him and look to him for what we need.

lost, know that you are doing what God wants you to do and that you will be able to look back and say you did all that you could and that no matter what you looked for God's will in all this. Tomorrow is another day closer to the cruise. hang in there and prayers to you.

RR, thanks a lot for the prayers. I need it.

I don't think you were laughing at me at all. I do appreciate your help.

Talk about fainting. Before I had my D, I miscarried once. I was in the emergency room with H. I cried so badly because of the miscarriage. The nurse was trying to put an IV in my arm, but I was so thin. She tried very hard, only to have blood all over. When she looked around, my H was on the floor. So she had to ask for help, some other nurse to give me the poke, and she had to pick my H up.

Then on my son's birth, H was so nervours(that was the 2nd child) he got lost. Then after the labor,when the Dr. clean up everything and said it is over. He said to me, I am so tired from seeing all the blood and from holding you. So I think that we women are stronger.

I am looking upon GOD, try to go in the right path. please keep praying for me. Thanks. I will pray for you too.

roughroad -

Nurses are really God's angels, and I praise you for that. I am one who faints at the sight of blood. I always wanted to be a nurse, but knew I could not do it.

I have had 3 fainting experiences. One when a girl in the office cut her finger on the paper-cutter. I went with her to doctor to give her moral support. The doctor told me he just had to push the flesh back into the wound. That was it for me. Everything went dark, and I fell to the floor.

Then I had a friend when I was 17 that was getting chemo for melanoma. Her catheter was bothering her and I tried to move it. Yep down again.

The last was this year when my son cut his hand while we were walking on the beach. He was trying to cut open some mussels. The blood was spurting everywhere. I got him up to the street, and started getting dizzy. Luckily my step-daughter had run for help.

LNH,

I am sorry to hear about your S's nosebleeds. You have a lot going on right now. I think the cruise will do you good.

I also have to leave my kids with WH, in May, though, and they're older. It's for sure that he's not riding down to meet me on my business trip to FL, so he will have to stay at the house with the kids while I'm gone. I'm not all that excited about him doing that. I worry he won't come home until late. And he'd better NOT bring OW into my house. I think even in his fog, he's smarter than that.

I don't want to go on my trip, though. It's a business meeting stuck right in the heart of DisneyWorld, but they're not giving us any free time for the parks. We have dinner at Epcot's American Adventure one night, but other than that, we're stuck in meeting rooms at Disney's Yacht Club the entire time. I told someone I was going to stick my foot in front of a car tire and have someone run it over just to get out of going. It still doesn't sound like a half-bad idea! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Believer,

I know what you mean about not being sure your WH will turn around, or that he and OW may move in together. I have that same fear with my WH. At the end of this month, he has to move...somewhere. The OW has been pressuring him hard since he gave notice, to find a place big enough for the two of them and her baby. One little push the wrong direction from me between now and then, and I think he'd do it. Or, he may just "hang out" in the camper or with friends for a month or so to save money for a deposit, and then do it anyway.

I just have to keep telling myself over and over that God is in control. I'm not. I can't control his decisions. I can only be responsible for my own.

I do want to feel better. Even though you may have not done the best Plan B, you seem to have peace. I have had a few days lately where I feel like I'm actually detaching a little and feeling better, but most days I still think of him a lot.

LL

you guys had me laughing again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> thanks for saying nurses are angels, don't think i am necessarily. I'm not doing patient care anymore, it just became to stressful for me, not being able to help those i wanted to in the ways i needed to, too many people not appreciating what you are trying to do and why, not having the support of the higher-ups to do what needs to be done, and i just couldn't stop trying to do evrything myself so i really got burnt out, i felt used and abused. oh well, i'm still a nurse but i'm more on the administrative side now. making sure other nurses are doing what they are supposed to do.

isn't it such a blessing that we have this site to come to? i feel God led me here and I'm glad of that even though i'm sad too that there are so many people here, but i try not to think too much on that. i think more of how this site is helping me and so many others. smiles, hugs, prayers to all of you.

P.S. still waiting for you guys to update your signature lines to give us a snapshot of your story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

LL- Although I hope my WH will "get it", I am prepared that he may not. I have given him lots of chances, but he may still blow it.

Ok, I finally updated my sig line now. Just to see how it works.

thanks sweetie, it helps me have a clearer picture of your situation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

RR, what state are you in?

I really want to meet all of you. I wish we are closer, so we can spend our weekends together.

I'm in southern illinois. but i have family in utah and arkansas, my H is in florida, and my IL's are in NJ. so i really could be just about anywhere <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I may also do a fair amount of training due to going to conferences, etc. I truly feel it's a small world. I'm big on keeping in contact w/people because you just never know when you might run into them again. I keep in touch w/people all over the US, alaska, germany, iraq, etc.

i've never lived around my extended family, it was just me, my sister, and my parents when i was growing up (my dad was in the air force for 21yrs) then i got married and my husband was in the air force for 9yrs and then i was in the air force for 4 yrs. so i had to reach out a lot to other people in the military and make friends. guess that was kind of a long answer to your question. but anyway, gotta go for the day, will be back tomorrow and check in on you. have a good night and prayers to you.

I am mad, and very mad.

WH came home for dinner, then he asked me for a hair cut. After his hair cut, I gave ahair cut to S, he went to take a shower. By the time I clean up everything, he dressed up and zoomed out. Why do i serve such a selfish person? i am hurt and mad. I asked him to take S with him, he just left. I know that he must go to meet OW.

Why are you expecting him to change? Don't expect anything from him right now. You will just be very disappointed. At least you have the computer now.

Believer, you are right. But what am I doing? Why should I give him a hair cut? Why didn't he ask OW to do it? I am just mad.

You are giving him power over you. Don't do it. Try to look at the bright side. Now we can hear from you tonight. Also try to rest up some and enjoy your kids.

You are right Believer. I am going to take a shower now, then read the book I got today, Remedy for Divorce. I went for a walk before he came home, I feel tired now. I need this tireness to put me in sleep.

Hey, that's the book I want to get. Let me know if you learn anything from it.

I will definitely do. I hope that I can learn the skill to stop the D. I even had nothing to say to WH when I gave him the hair cut, dead silence. He was so bored last night too. I feel sorry for him.

Just keep it in your mind that he is addicted. He will continue to do strange things. Finally it will be over, and then he will be sorry. But not now. Hang in there.

LNH,

I'm sorry to hear about the haircut experience. It really hurts when you do something nice because they asked and then they just turn and walk away. It's a little like I felt last week when I invited WH to dinner, and he showed up, ate while I was upstairs on the phone to Jennifer, and then fell asleep and couldn't be awakened once I was back downstairs. And then he just came into my room the next morning and said, "I'm leaving. Bye." And that was it.

Just keep hanging on for that cruise and he MBW. Those are your goals right now. And keep reading the Bible and praying. And keep busy.

I'm going to log offline now and work on some bills. I know it's 11pm your time, but if you end up awake and on here and can't sleep, I'll be up for another hour or so. Give me a call if you want.

LL

I feel so frustrated for all these.

D was upset about me going to cruise. She was crying. But I told her that mom is very upset on things happening, I need to take a break. She is too little to take all of these.

It is sad how much this hurts families. But you have no control over that. It will be good for WH to reconnect with kids when you are gone.

Try to get some sleep tonight so you don't fall asleep while driving.

I am listening to some message tape: the title is How to Know GOD's Will.

I really need to know that. I want to know what GOD wants me to do.

Lostnhurt,
When you get to Harley's program, just focus on it and don't worry about the other books, etc. I am so underwater just trying to understand his program that I'm forgetting things -- like a Mom showed up yesterday with her 5 year old whom I had agreed to babysit!

Cherished

Cherished Believer and my other friends,

Good morning.

Last night, I tried to read the book. How I wish I had gotton this book a year ago, it was sitting in the library. I know that I have to concentrate on Harley's program, but i don't see anythng inconflict with his things yet. I will keep reading.

Last night, H didn't come home till 12:30pm, I was still reading b/c I couldn't sleep. But after that, I slept ok, not the best i want, but It was ok. I praised and thanked GOD first when I open my eyes. I found out that concentrate on GOD helps me a lot.

How are you doing Cherished. i hope you days were good and will have a good day today.

I will have to meet a client this evening. H agreed to take care of the kids. I do appreciate that he always be supportive with my business. I said thank you to him, is that enough to show my appreciation?

Lostnhurt, I know that Harley said in the private e-mail section that Light My Fire has some conflict with his program, but what I am finding is that I am overwhelmed just with trying to understand and go through Harley's program while taking care of the children and the house. Today I run a Girl Scout meeting, on Saturday is our son's First Communion so we have relatives over, etc. Meanwhile, we are trying to spend 15 hours per week together alone figuring out how to meet each other's emotional needs.

We are doing OK. I got an e-mail response from Harley today on what do to about my supecting the affair may still be going on. I also wanted to know what to do about feeling "violated" because of the affair. Remember -- the affair supposedly ended May 4, 2002. We are almost up to two years.

Enjoy your cruise --
Cherished

good morning lost, good job at controlling the LB's and the anger. you are doing so well despite what you are being put through. i bet those were some good messages about doing God's will. i know that i'm struggling a lot w/this as well but as my mom said even the people that we would consider really close to God (pastor, ministers, priests, etc.) struggle w/this as well. think about what you're doing as something that you can look back on and say you did "good." remember the marathon analogy, yes, it's a race but not a sprint so do what you can to stay the course. after all it's almost cruise time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> continued prayers to you.

Cherished,

I admire your patience and courage for hanging so long. I even don't know whether Wh is no contact or not. Last night he told me he was watching basket ball game in a bar. I don't know what to believe. Your h was home right?

You are mom for 4 kids, you are still running a girl scout. That is amazing. I just taught Sunday school. I would do the VBS in June. Yesterday, i saw a help wanted sign in the library cafe, i wanted to go too, b/c i want to be occupied as much as possible.

lostnhurt -
As long as he is acting strange, there is probably contact. So don't get your hopes up. I heard about the tornadoes back there and am worried about everyone. I am watching the pictures on TV right now.
Keep up the good work, you are doing fine, much better than I've ever done.

I agree with believer that he is probably lying and having contact. If he agrees to the program, contact will become difficult and he will need to spend time with you!!!

I don't put my hope on him at all. His behavior now really hurts me and the kids, it doesn't matter there is contact or not. he just doesn;t want to commit to M. I am looking up to GOD and rely on HIM for strength to survive now.

I went to shopping a little bit, tried to buy few shirts for the crusie. I found out now I have to wear XS. I feel so bad now, diarehhar also comes back. For some moment, the bad feelings bothered me, but praying calm me down.

One way i look forward to the cruise. On the other hand, my heart aches so much when I think about leaving them, even only for 6 days. How wish this is a family vacation!

Lostnhurt -

You NEED to go on this cruise. Go and have a good time. Take some books and try to relax. Find some souvenirs for the kids, and they will be happy.

I think it will be good for you to be gone and have WH be with his kids.

Believer,

I know I need to take this vacation and have good time, and i will. So when I came back i will have more energy.

Just hung up wiyh WH. We can talk so calmly now. D called to akse to pick her up in the library, so I called him b/c I have to see a client at 6:30pm. He told me to enjoy the cruise, I thanked him for taking care of the kids. I wished we were like this before. I keep praying that we can become one family again, under GOD.

You will be a strong family again. Just hang on.

Thank you Believer, you are always so encouraging, not only to me, to all other people here. i really appreciate and admire you.

How is your day? Anything from your WH? I still want to know what happened to Leo.

i know my H has even said that he was glad we can talk the way we have been and is glad we can still hug each other after all this. you know deep down that your H is a good person and just under a tremendous fog right now, if you didn't feel that way then you wouldn't be having the struggle that you are having. i think once you're on the cruise it will be easier to "lighten" up. afterall, it's not like you can just go home once you're on the boat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> BTW, where are you going on your cruise? is it all inclusive? remind me again exactly when you will be leaving so that i won't be paranoid when you're not posting here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

RR and my friends,

S came back from school, I cooked him dinner. He is eating, listen to music and doing his homework. I will be leaving in less than an hour to meet my client for mortgage. Glad to get another one, so I can pay for the cruise.

I will be leaving Friday morning before the kids get up, I know that I will be heart broken leaving them. I am also glad that they are still sleeping. I will fly to NY and board Carnival ship to Bermuda. I will be back Apr. 29. It is relatively inexpensive, it is $299 for 6 nights all inclusive except air. The air ticket is $170.

Today while Wh and I were talking, he told me that he was having his chlestral level and blood pressure checked at work when I called. He told me that was the reason he did not pick up my call. Then we talk about his health, he is taking Zocor to control his c level, but the blood pressure is a little high. I told him that maybe excersice help and I am walking everyday. He was so surprised. But anyway, I just wish he can take care of himself too.

I believe in God's providential care, and the timing of your cruise seems to be something that could be interpreted as God's care for you. You are leaving WH with S and D -- so, when is he going to see OW? He'll figure out that choosing OW means hurting you, S, and D -- I hope!

The MBW can be a fresh start for you!

LNH,

That is a really good price for the cruise! I agree with Cherished--seems like things are just working out for you so that you can relax, spend time with your sister, and build strength and then you're off to your MBW.

Your kids will miss you, but they're old enough to spend a little time away from you. I know how hard it is. I have had to travel with my job since my DD was 5 months old. I hate that part of the job, and it was very hard when they were young (really, still is, though I haven't traveled as much in the last 2 years) to fly out on Monday morning and not fly back until Friday night.

It will give your WH a good chance to see what he could be losing, having to stay with the kids. And your kids do need time with their father, too.

LL

I wanna go on a cruise. It sounds like such fun.

Lost, just checking in w/you today and to let you know again, that we are all pulling for you and here for support. wish we could all go on a cruise together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> glad you will back for a little bit before the MBW so you can give us an update before you're off again. just think you can start counting down the "hours" now. continued prayers and strength to you.

Thank you all my friends. You are so encouraging. Yes, we should all go together, the group of BS(Beautiful )

Yesterday I didn't get home till 9pm. I was so tired and hungry. I prepared all the food, only need to be cooked. But when i came home there was nothing to eat. WH let the kids eat the left over, he said he ate at work. I was so mad, but I didn't LB. I asked him whehter he can cook for me while I was taking a shower. he did. I thanked him. It was almost 11pm after putting kids to bed and everything. I was sooooo tired, wfell asleep right away. Sis called, I told her that I was too tired to talk.

This morning I got up at 6am. But I am still so sleepy, I couldn't understand why. I have to take a nap now in order to keep going. There is only one final exam left today, i am done.

Lostnhurt -

Don't fall asleep today and drive into another car.

Hey, I like the cruise idea. That would be fun. We could have a marriagebuilders cruise. I'm going back to work today after 3 days off. Hope they missed me.

I took a nap, and drank a lot of tea. I feel better now. I praised GOD for giving me a good night sleep.

But now the bad feeling is coming bad, I have an urge to call WH, just want to hear his voice. I know that I can not call, I have to fight with it.

How long do I have to go through this? Will he ever come back?

I will miss my children and Wh in the next few days. But I will get charged so I can hang in longer.

Finished giving final and grading and posting grades. I am heading home to pack.

But I don't feel good at all. All my anxiety symptoms come back, cold hands, swaeting, shaking and nervous. I just talked to sis, she told me not to think too far. I know.

I also sent an e-mail to WH telling him I appreciate him to be supportive for my business and taking care of the kids, and some info about Lasik. He actually help D for her homework. He had mentioned about wanting to do a Lasik procedure, but don't know much. Hope that I can help him that way. But he also told me he will be going out tonight to bars with people from other locations for a conference(How do i know he is not out with OW?) But maybe that is a trigger.

i know, reminding ourselves that we are on a rollercoaster does little to make us feel better sometimes. i'm starting to feel a little frustrated myself right now. I had called my H earlier today and left a message for him to call me back because i had some questions about the phone bills. i said i was going out (at the time i called) but would be back by 1300. so he calls me at 1247 and leaves me a VM on my cell phone. says hey "roughroad" we always used to say hey "hon." got your message blah blah blah, i don't have your work number memorized yet, blah blah, give me a call on your cell phone on your way home from work and i'll try to have mine on me, blah blah blah.

why is it so easy to say thanks "hon" or thank you sweetheart to a waitress but not to his own wife? and i am still his wife. of course, he has his cell phone on him at ALL times so the precious OW can get in contact w/him. am i ever going to get a chance to tell him how all these little things make me feel? no because we BS are supposed to be just so perfect during this time. you know he said one of the things he liked about me was my feistiness (sp?) and i certainly put that in over drive over the years to the point where my mom felt sorry for my H. and now that i've "changed" or learned what DJ and AO's are as well as other LB's and know i can't do those then is he really going to appreciate that someday? or is he just going to think that now im just a completely different person than who he married, again?

sorry for taking over your thread, just kind of frustrated. i think i would be better if i could talk to SH more and certainly if my H talked to SH again but those things can't be helped right now. i'm going to call my MIL either tomorrow or some time this weekend and see what she thinks about me coming to visit. maybe that will make some sort of difference, who knows. maybe part of it is i just pigged out at lunch and haven't been working out like i have been so i'm feeling guilty. i guess just a bunch of emotions running amuck right now.

well, i hope you feel better and i will definitely be hitting the gym tonight. prayers to you.

RR,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> of course, he has his cell phone on him at ALL times so the precious OW can get in contact w/him <hr /></blockquote>Oh, the cell phone dilemma. I experience that, too. My WH always has his phone on, but he never answers my calls. I always have to leave a message and then he calls back. However, if he can't get ME on MY cell phone immediately, he often leaves a snotty message about my not answering. I want to tell him how I feel about it. I've even made a couple somewhat vague, joking comments, but nothing serious. I know I can't. It's a LB.

LNH,

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad again today. I'm sure a lot of it is "nerves" about going on the cruise tomorrow and leaving the kids behind.

Just remember the same thing I always had to tell myself when I had to travel--they're in God's hands. Ultimately He's in control. You can't control everything or be there for them all the time. Believe me, as they get into their teens, this becomes very important to remember. It was very difficult letting my almost-18-yr-old DS drive to Minneapolis on Monday. It's a 240 mile trip one way. He's never driven in a city that size. But I know I have to let go, because he'll be going off to college next fall. I had to trust that God would keep him safe. And he made it back fine.

Your kids will be fine with their dad. I don't mean this in a bad way at all, but you'll probably miss them more than they'll miss you. Just go have fun. Rest. Enjoy the beauty of the ocean, and of the islands. Buy yourself something special to remember the trip by. May the weather be beautiful and the seas calm for you.

Do update us on how the cruise went before you go to your MBW if you can.

And you have my email address. If you take a digital camera along and take some great pictures, email me a couple. I'd love to see what Bermuda looks like.

Is your weather decent enough so you can go walk today? Or can you maybe tidy the house and make sure everything is ready for you to leave. Anything to take your mind off things and keep you active until tomorrow comes.

Believer,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Hey, I like the cruise idea. That would be fun. We could have a marriagebuilders cruise. <hr /></blockquote>I think that's a great idea. We'll leave LNH in charge of finding one at a cheap price, like hers is, and then we'll all meet at the ship and go relax and enjoy together! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LL

[ April 22, 2004, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]

I am back home now. Thanks for all the conforting words, LL. I will look for something good for cruise if you are intersting.

RR, I feel your frustration. They all behave the same. I stopped calling my WH especially on the days he disappeared. You know what, we got our cell phone in Dec. as family plan, he told me it would be easy for him to call me. But the first call he made was to OW. When the bill came in Jan., pages of calls to her, when he called me for 1 min, right after that, he called OW for hours. That is how I discovered OW. I can feel my anger while writing this. But let's put it behind us, pick ourselves up. Head to the gym.

I will take a walk again later after the kids come home. I haven't packed yet. Only made a list. But i will do it.

I will send pictures to you all or post it in the MB photo site.

Better get packing, girl. You want to be sure not to forget anything.

I will have to pick up D now. She joined a track team and need to practice everyday. S will come home 4:30pm. After they came home, i will pack and go for a walk.

please have some fun for us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> but have the most fun for yourself. probably won't get to post to you again before you leave for your trip (the only computer access i have is at work). so many prayers to you during this trip that you will remain strong but "relaxed."

It's great that your daughter is in track. That is sure to raise her endomorphins. It will be very good for her.

Please have a good time on the cruise and forget about all of your problems. We will miss you.

Just put D in bed. She was crying not wanting me to go. I was sad to. No matter how I explain to her, she just cry. She said that she doesn't trust her dad, she thought she is abandoned. I told her to call her frand parents(in laws) if anything happens. I know it doesn't help, but at least it is their so, they need to know it.

This evening was a ciaos. I forgot that i had to tutor. When the student was here, I was surprised. But I maneged through it. Now, all thing are set except that Wh is somewhere out there. he is supposed to send me to the airport. But I put everything in GOD, I know that GOD will take care of everything.

Thanks my friends. I will miss you.

LNH,

Thanks for calling. I'm so sorry that your DD is having so much difficulty with your being gone. It is tough for her, but she needs to see her mom taking care of herself, too. (I know this because I've been told it many times myself--that instead of worrying about everyone else, I need to show my kids that I care enough about me to take care of myself.)

I hope your WH is home by now and that you are getting some much-needed sleep by this time.

If you check in tomorrow before you leave, this is me wishing you "happy cruising". Otherwise, I'll look forward to hearing an update when you return.

Try and stay calm. Eat well. Do lots of sister-bonding. Take a picture to email to me. Buy your kids a couple really unique gifts. Try and enjoy the beauty that God created while you're out there.

LL

i know you're not here and unable to post right now but just wanted to say i've been thinking about you and hope that you are doing a lot better than i am right now. post when you get back before you go to the MBW if you can. prayers to you.

LNH,

This is to let you know I'm thinking about you, too. I hope you're getting some badly needed rest and relaxation and that you are having an enjoyable time with your sister.

LL

Hi, friends, back from cruise. Still feel rocking like in the ship. No time to report the detail, b/c need to pacjk to go to MB tomorrow,.

lostnhurt -

We have really missed you. Please let us know what is going on.

I miss all of you too. The trip was very very fun. A lot of detail and photos. Bermuda was beautiful. It is nice to get a way, but I still feel like in the ship, rocking and rocking. I need to go to bed now and get up early to catch tomorrow morning's flight. Will give you great detail report when I come back.

LNH,

Yeah! You took photos. I hope some were on a digital camera so you can email me a couple. I've never been anywhere like that. Would love to see what it looks like!

You've missed some things with me and WH's situation. I won't go into detail here but I made a mistake (actually made the initial mistake 8 years ago) but in anger told mutual person (not mutual friend anymore). It got back to WH. BAD thing! Brought back a lot of hurt and pain and guilt on my part. I'm better now because I realize that God has forgiven me and I am sorry, but WH is still making it an issue, which I understand.

Aside from that, WH and OW are still together. He is turning in his keys to his apartment on Friday but she was still living there as late as this evening.

He is bringing his things home to store, but I don't think he's moving back in yet. I have laid out boundaries for him--no OW and no drinking or no moving back in. It is very scary to tell him this because on one hand I thought maybe having him back under this roof would give us a chance to grow back togeher and then he'd let go of the other things.

But lots of posters have warned me not to let him come home yet, because having him back and then having it be a false recovery is just as painful as the initial D-day.

I am starting to get past the worst of the pain, I think. Don't get me wrong, I am very lonely most of the time and I still can't imagine WH not being in my life. But because he's been gone for so long, I've settled into a bit of a routine around home with the kids and I'm at least able to eat and actually have an appetite again. This really didn't start happening until the last couple weeks, so it took about 6 months from D-day to improve. It's been a long haul and I'm sure I'll still have lots of down days throughout whatever happens.

I know tomorrow will be really tough, and I think knowing that I am not worth giving up OW and drinking for will probably set in this weekend and I'll go back through my depression. I hope to try and stay too busy to notice for as long as I can.

DS's prom is Saturday, and then he turns 18 on Sunday. That will keep me busy. Then there's lots to do at work next week because the following Monday, May 10th, I fly out with my company to my symposium at Disney World for three days. I don't want to go, but it's mandatory.

Once I get back, I have to dive in and get the house ready for DS's graduation reception coming up way too fast. Then there's his actual graduation. I'm not really looking forward to Memorial Day weekend at the end of all of it, because I doubt that WH and I will be back in recovery yet, and he'll be out partying with friends and I'll be alone. I'll have to find something to do.

But that's a long ways off yet. Who knows what will be going on by then.

I'm trying to take one day at a time. I pray a lot. I've found a Christian contemporary group that I like very well and I listen to their CD in my car when I drive. I stay busy at work and with the kids. I think the nice weather and the flowers are helping my mood, too.

And finally....I have to admit I spend a lot of time in denial of everything, and I rather like it there. It's peaceful....

Take care and have safe travels. I look forward to your updates when you're back!!

LL

can't wait to get the full scoop when you get back, will be especially praying for everyone at the MBW and hope that it does the trick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

lostnhurt -

Glad you are back. We have REALLY missed you. I will be praying for you and the others at the MB weekend. Hang in there, you can do this.

LNH,

Howa doin'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Let us know how the MB session went. Hope we can meet us tomorrow. You have my # right? I maybe giving you call around lunch or later.

Hugz,
L.

lostnhurt -

Glad that your MB weekend went OK. It must have been fun to meet Dad and Mom to 3 boys.

My WH is coming around making reconciling noises. He still has OW but tells me he wants to get rid of her. I have not told OW's H because I don't want to get his hopes up. Also I am not sure that I want WH back. In fact, I don't think I do.

Hang in there, your WH will come around. Save your strength for recovery. We women have kept our families together through the centuries. You can continue to do this.

Lostnhurt --
You'll see that I take full advantage of Harley's e-mail support when you have access to the private e-mail. It's really helped me, although you'll see that I am thinking that my H simply doesn't want to build a life together. I hope that your H woke up this last weekend.
Cherished

anxious to hear from you when you get a chance. lots to update us on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> wishing you continued strength and prayers to you.

LNH,

I, like everyone, else am eager to hear all about your MBW and how things are with you. Also eager to hear all about your cruise, and hoping when things finally settle down a bit for you, you'll have some time to email me a couple so I can see a little of what you saw on the cruise!!

LL

Hellooo, my friends. I feel so good about all my friends thinking of me. It is a nice feeling for being loved.

We arrived the airport 12am, and got home about 1am. The kids were exsauhsted, so was I. But I still manage to get up at 6am, b/c that is the time for D to get up and go to school. But she didn't want to get up, she just get up now and I am going to send her to school soon. I will give you detail one when I come back.

lostnhurt,

Well, we missed you at the dinner. Hope R is improving.

-rh-

[ May 03, 2004, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]

Here I am finally.

First of all, I want to say that nothing magical happened. But there were little things worth mentioned and there is a long long way to go. No matter what, this is a seminar worthy to go. Contentwsie, it is nothing new to me, they are all in this website. I believe I know all of them. But the most important thing is that WH was there and he got exposed, and we need to do our follow up home work.

First, let me report positive things.

1. He was there, didn't miss anything. At least he sat there for the entire course, how much get in his heart, I don't know.

2. We arrived in lasw's apartment on Friday afternoon, they cooked good food for us, after that they urged us to go, not to be late. We made there on time, 7pm, when the seminar started.

3. The first evening ended at about 9:30pm. I asked him whether he wanted to go out. He said, you didn't like to go out before. I said, I am just suggesting. He said he is too tired, he wanted to sleep. I said ok, you know that I am much more tired than him.

4. After we went to the room, he was watching TV. I was lying next to him. He said that this is a king size bed, why are you so close to my side. I said that I want to be close to you, if this is a problem to you, I can move. But he didn't say anything. I fell asleep.

5. THen he was restless and waking me up. I knew that he wanted sex. We ended up making love. That night was crazy. We did it 4 times. please don't laugh at me. I haven't have sex for long time. I could tell that there was nothing new in him. I sort of thing that his A maybe an EA. I don't know.

6. Next day, we went to the seminar on time. But he kept yarning and looking at the schedule, he wanted a break. Finally, in the 10am break, he told me that he was too sleepy, he wanted to sleep. I was very upset first, then I calm down and told him to take a good rest, anyway, after what happened last night, he should be tired. THen I talked to Dr. Harley and told him that I was disappointed with WH's act. He sounded sympathetic. I feel that he is not as optimistics as SH. I started to look for Mom and Dad to 3 boys. I called them, but ptobably they phobe was shooot off, I still coulnd't find them.

4. 15 min later, the seminar resumed, I was doing all the questionare, in his book WH left them blank. THen the door opened, there he walked in. I was so surprised and said aren't you tired? He said the sleepness was over, so he came. I told him that he miss the part that there are couples married for few months, and some are not married yet. He commented, we should have been here before our M. But you would not want to pay for the money. Then he asked me how much this seminar was. I told him it is about $800. He didn't say anything.

5. FInally at lunch, I asked each table about Momto3boys and found them. It was very nice to meet them and talk to them. I told WH, the WH just shaked hands and say Hi. Wh said that are they going to D? I said no, they wanted to reconsile, that's why they are here. Then I learned that SH was there too, we talked to him. SH asked him how he thought about the concepts. Wh said it would be ok if it was few years ago, but it is too late now. SH said you never know, why don't you give a try. Wh didn't comment.

6. We sticked to the end of the seminar. He sat there and listen to all. I hope that he will not apply to OW. Finally, we all have to echange the quationares, and fill out more forms. He did the questionare, it was a relief for me. But I don't know how much truth he told. He put SF as #9. But anyway, I am glad he did it. They Dr. Harley asked each couple to signed an agreement to work on the M. WH refused to and said things will work by heart, not by signiture.

7. Finally, Dr. Harley asked each couple has to do the follow up HW. He asked us to schedule 3 hrs per week to finish the assigment, we have to start immediately. I asked WH that what was his time and expected an rejection. But he gave me some times! I have to teach M, T, TH., evenings, he told me to do them T, Th, and Sunday 10pm. I asked him why not W. F., evenings, but he said no. I know that he will be disappearing because I don;t teach. But I am looking at the positive side. I will see whehter er can put it in action tomorrow evenings.

8. Then we said till the Q&A question too. But he refused to go to dinner with Orchid and Redhat, I was disappointed. He told me that we will go to in laws, and he will stayed overnight there, I will take the kids back to hotel. I was upset about it. But I didn't show it. Anyway, I wish the seminar was longer, it was very rush to the points.

Well, I have to take D to dentist and conseling this afternoon, then I have to teach. I will write more when I have time. SIs also called asking me about the same thing. I am so trilled that I am in so many people's mind. I thank GOD and praise HIM.

hallelujah! we're updated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> i think you are doing very well, still not having expectations and being realistic. as for the sex thing, don't think i would have been able to pass it up either, it's been since october 03 for me. glad you got to meet both the harleys. it's probably hard to tell or too soon to tell about the MBW and it's affect on your H but as SH would probably say, the seeds have been planted. thinking if maybe i might be able to ask my H to go to the next MBW as part of a condition of separation. not sure we are even at that point yet but just something i've thought about for quite some time. anyway, write more when you can.

lostnhurt -

Sounds pretty promising to me. He went, and attended the seminar, had SF. Let's give him some credit. Yay, Mr. lostnhurt!

He may still be in the fog, but the seeds have been planted.

just checking in w/you today and hope that you are doing the best that you can. think of your plight often and send you continued prayers.

Ok, I finally have some time to post a little. RR, I tried to read your thread and post, but I was kept being interuppted. So I am just updating for myself now.

Yesterday was a busy and crazy day for me. I took D to dentist at 1pm, then she forgot her stuff from school, we went back to her school before heading for her consoling. This consolor tends to run a long session, by the time we got out, it was almost 4pm, we were supposed to be out by 3:30pm. D told her that she felt good that mom and dad are trying to work things out. I immedieate warn her that it may not be the case, I don't want to give her false hope.

After consoling, we went straight to S school to pick him up b/c I promised him in the morning I would pick him up. By the time we came home it was already 4:30pm. My class started at 5:30pm. So I rushed to my office to get the syllabus ready. there was about 10 min. left before the class began. Then dept chair wanted to talk to me, other people wanted to see me, students want their recommenationa letter and thier grades to changed. So you know how overwhleming that was. Amazingly, I did them all in 10 min. I didn't mean to change the grad and wote the letter, but they were all taken cared.

Summer course are very rush and intense, I spent 2 1/2 hr. in teaching, after that I was exauhsted. I even had no time to think of my own situation, that is why we all need to get busy. After going back to the office, I found out there were 5 messages in my cell, all about mortgages. So I had to do that work to. My business started to pick up a little again.

By the time i came home, it was 9pm. D was soing homework and crying. I asked her whether she had dinner, the answer was no, b/c dad took brother to skate night. I was mad, but I was not. I immediately thought Wh is being a good father. I should appreciate what he did. I greeted him(not him greeted me) and thanked him. He went straight cooking. I helped D finishing her homework. i don't understand why she didn't get my math gen. But anyway, one positive thing Learned in the cruise being with sis, is to understand other people. I will talk about that later. Then we had dinner at 9:30pm.

After dinner, H was taking out trash and started fixing the computer. This computer was acting up for a while, luckly we had another one. here was my chance to show my admiration. I told him how proud I was to have a computer expert in the house. He really is, that is his job. He built these computers and put them in network too.

By the time all the kids went to bed, it was 11:10pm. We both were exauhsted. We said good night and headed to differnt bedrooms, how funny.

So not nuch happened between us yesterday. Today I spent the whole morning working on my business, and I have to teach again. Tonight is supposed to be our first night to study the lesson, please pray for us. Please pray that he doesn't back out.

I feel much better now, the cruise helped a lot. Being with sis was great. I learned to live day by day and trust GOD.

I am stilll reading The Divorce Remedy. It teaches you to find signs of improvement. So this morning, H was picking ties. It was the first time in LOOOOONG time he asked my opinion about that. I was thrilled, of course I didn't show it. I learned to appreciate more.

lostnhurt - Glad to hear from you again. How did kids week go with WH while you were on the cruise?

Believer, you are here. I miss you, how are you doing?

Kids were ok with WH. He is a good dad. He bought D clothes and shoes and took them to Chinese school. Yesterday, he took S to a skate party too. I do appreciate eveyrhting he did.

Please pray for us to have a good start in tonights lesson. My goal is that he keeps his promise and does work with me.

thanks for catching up on my thread and replying. i am so proud of the way you are handling things. i read your recent update earlier but i'm just now getting a chance to reply. i think you should be the poster child for not LBing despite the way that your H is acting (which BTW looks like he's coming around). i wish momto3boys would start to come around w/your way of thinking. i'm also thinking that she needs to get away for a week like you did. she's not painting a very warm environment for her H to want to stay with or come back to.

well anyway, who am i to say anything? everyone just needs to be reminded that it is a chipping away process like SH says and that we all did not get here over night, we've got to do what it takes to stay the course and finish the race. a lot of time that means going past our own feelings and falling on the "sword" or shooting ourselves in the foot both are what SH says. we have to validate the WS feelings, stroke their ego, not LB, follow our actions w/our words, and alaways remember what our goal is.

so keep up the good work and continued prayers to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RR, thank you for your encouragement. Everytime I read your thread, I feel like talking to a mom who has warm heart, same feeling as Believer. Even though I am 10+ years older.

I want to give this feeling to my children so they will remember me when they grow. Thank you for your prayer. I will keep all of you updated.

thanks lost that was very sweet and flattering. just wish i could have shown my warmth to my H. why can't he just give me another chance? well you know the answer, they are in an addiction and in a fog and are unable to put themselves in our shoes. anyway, hope you have a good night and i'll check in w/you tomorrow. prayers to you.

rr - Just keep plugging along. They usually change and come back, even if they say they want a D.

lostnhurt - Hurry up and get done with that book and send us some tips.

LNH,

I finally got a chance to read through your posts from the last few days. Sounds like the MBW was hectic, but it's good that your WH went. I do pray for you--that it will sink into his heart, even if it's just a little at a time. I do think it's promising that he attended the entire session and is willing to do the homework.

See...I told you you'd have a nice time on the cruise and that the kids would be fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sounds like they had some good bonding time with their father.

And I do think you're doing a great job in Plan A, too. I am starting to fail at it miserably. It's not that I'm LBing intentionally. I'm just backing away because I'm not sure what to do next.

Less than a week and I fly to Florida with my company for a three-day seminar that I don't want to attend. I am afraid my WH won't be at home watching the kids when he's supposed to. I guess it's good they're in their teens.

Then one more week after I return and I have my 3rd call with Jennifer. I'm hoping she can enlighten me on what my next move should be. I'm feeling very unfocused right now.

LL

LL,

I e-mailed you some pictures. Believer and RR, I will send you some too, rr needs to give me her e-mail. If you can teach me how to post it, it will be easier.

I just got off class and will be heading home soon. I am really nervous now, b/c I am afraid that Wh will back off the assignment. I keep praying and be not worried. Thank you for all your prayer, all my MB friends are of great help.

LL, I think your FL trip will help you, even it is not a fun trip. But go away from the environment you are used will help you to get your mind off. Relaxing really helps. I know that my situation is not better than before the trip, it is just me feeling better now, so I can have more energy to fight for my M.

Eeek! You don't think your situation is any better than before the cruise after WH and you had SF 4 times in one night? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> We should all be so lucky.

Believer, Hmmm, I am not sure. After that, he acted the same, did not talk to me, slept in different room. What do I call that. Tomorrow I will not teach, I predict he will run away again. I pray that I am wrong.

lostnhurt -

No, that is very, very encouraging. If you read other people's treads here a lot, you will notice that most WS's have no lustful feelings toward the BS. And I think 4 times in one night must be a record. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It is already 10:15pm, but the kids are not sleeping yet. S still not finished his hwk. WH wants go to bed. I am so paranoid. I want the kids to go to bed, not WH. So we can have our lesson. Please pray for me.

lostnhurt -

Don't expect miracles overnight. You have been exposed to MB program for a long time now. WH is just learning about it.

So hang in there, and be patient, it will not happen overnight.

you are still doing well, your being honest w/yourself about not trying to have expectations and you are continuing to do what you need to do to help rebuild your M. since we are all being honest here, my H and i have never had sex 4 times in one night!! maybe 3 and that was probably at the beginning of our relationship so wow! is all i can say. i would also find that enouraging but at the same time like you are doing, no expectations and continuing to pray. my email is chewey75@hotmail.com

i know you'll update us when you can. prayers to you.

[ May 05, 2004, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Believer, thank you for your constant soppurt.

It was sort of disappointed last night. It was 10:30pm when i finally put the kids to bed. I asked WH to start our lesson. He said what lesson? I siad that we have to do our assignment after the seminar. He said, you just have so many different things for me to do, one after another, I am not coming home anymore, I don't want to do anything. But I calmly said that we just need to listen some CD's. He was mumbling, i am so tired, i want to sleep, you can put it in the computer.

I immediately got the CD and put it in the computer while he tried to slip to his room. But the computer acted up, so i told him to come over to take a look. He finally came over reluctantly and fixed it. We atarted listening!

But he was also browsing the web too. But the fisrt 30 min were th same thing we heard from the seminar, it made sense for him to listen again. After that, it was the assignment time, we have to read the book HNHN, first 2 chapters etc, Love Buster, ch 15. Of course, i read all of them already, but he didn't. He refused to. He said he was too tired. I told him that he could read it later, just read it. I really doubt that he would read any. He said I have so much to read, I am not going to. I feel so frustrated. Then I asked him what is my love bank balance, positive, 0, or negative. He refused to answer me. He said he doesn't believe that. Finally I quited, I told him good night and went to bed. He stayed there browsing the internet, and he said he had no time and tired. I was so pissed off.

But anyway, I prayed and thanked GOD for this tiny baby step. At least he listened to the CD. I can't ask for more. I will keep praying that he will do it again tomorrow. I will specailly pray that he won't disappear tonight. Just come home. I wish I am in MOM's psoition already, an H can come home every night after work, and am willing to call and take calls.

It is a long road here, I have to have faith. I already saw people posting in the private forum and Dr. Harley was answering. But his reply somehow discourage me, he kept saying that it is time to quit or it is very difficult when there is a reluctunt spouse. SH kept telling me to chip away, and not to expect things to happen over night. i am even afraid to ask him about my case.

when i started reading your most recent post, the first thing that came to my mind was what SH said to you that he has said to me (as well as others i'm sure), that it is a chipping away process, some days it may only be a speck that is chipped away, and some days there may not be any chipping away but as long as the stuff isn't glued back on then we are doing good. now that last part is mine but i think you get my drift.

you know i don't know what's going to happen, none of us do. but right now i feel i still have to try and fight for my M despite what has happened and the obstacles we will face should my H come back. i talked w/a friend last night she asked me to meet her at mcdonald's where her son could play on the equipment and we talked. she couldn't believe that i was still wearing my wedding ring. she wants to support me in whatever decision i make but she's also trying to make sure that i'm realistic as well and thinks i'm being too easy on my H. i said the easy thing to do (not for me but for my H) would be to just let him off scott free, just agree to a D and walk away. i can't do that.

she asked me how will i ever be able to trust him again or not wonder about things if we got back together. i said that i'm not sure that i would be able to, i think i can giving certain conditions (NC, POJA, protecting our M), etc. but that i'm not so naive to think that maybe if he does come back that i may change my mind. none of these thoughts are new to any of us BS. as i look to the left of my computer screen i see a picture of me and my H together and just got a sick feeling knowing that it might not work out and hope that i will be able to handle it. it's "easy" to be strong right now not knowing what the future holds.

i just have to keep reminding myself like you, that God has a plan for us and that all this is happening for a reason. he can give us the strength, determination, and resolve to get through whatever may come. i'm just feeling really greedy lately about always asking God to give me strength and don't feel like i'm giving much back. does that make sense? i don't have family near by, i don't have kids, i do have a close friend near by but she and her husband and son will be moving to the D.C. area this summer. if i could go to church everyday i would maybe then i would feel like i'm giving back more. i'm praying, reading my Bible, and trying to know and do God's will but it's difficult to remain focused.

so what was the purpose in my writing this reply? don't know, oh yeah it was to talk about the chipping away process. well anyway, you do just what you can and let the Lord do the rest, i know i need to follow my own advice. prayers to you.

RR, it is a very comforting and insightful post. I always wanted the wisdom and ability to write like you and some others on the board. Guess GOD didn't give me this, instead of a logical mind. I don't blame him.

Yes, I have to constantly remind myself that it is a long long process. I have to be patient. I view what happened last night as a "sucess". If he comes home tonight, i will call it another sucess. I need to tell myself that I've been making progress so I can keep going.

GOD"s work is really amazing. When I looked back, there were a lots of miracles along the way. I can't be too greedy. I should be thankful. GOD has HIS plan for us. RR, you are in Indiana. right? Maybe we can visit each other sometime.

you cease to amaze me on what you think about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> you really think i was insightful? wow. i actually live in illinois but work in st. louis, MO. it's less then a 18 mile drive. i would absolutely love to meet you, as well as many others who post. still haven't given up on the joint MB cruise <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> for some reason i had it in my mind that you lived in upstate new york.

there are so many cliche's that can be said, some are hind sight is 20/20, it often takes a tragic event for something good to happen, you never know how someone feels until you're in their shoes, etc. i am still not convinced that God's plan involves me not getting back together w/my husband and maybe i'm still being disobedient in that regard. i just feel like God has worked such a miracle inside me and that i've started sharing that w/others but still feel that the person i want to share this w/the most is my H. what better of a testimony could i be to him and to his family then if i were given another chance at my M?

i've been in "church" all my life and my family are believers. i say that i've been a Christian since i was eight years old. now was i always the Christian i should have been? certainly not, can i still grow and learn? absolutely. my H was not a believer when we met or married. he did profess Christ several years ago and was baptized but has not really done anything since. i think that what he did was more to appease me but the truth of it is that only God and my H knows whether or not it was sincere or genuine at the time. but SH said that it serves me better to come from the standpoint that my H is a Christian and act accordingly.

my H has really expressed an interest in religious history and has said that he wants to teach this and is in fact going to college for this. i personally thought most of the time that this was a form of justification for him. meaning that because he liked religious history and was going to teach it that it was okay if he didn't believe all of what the Bible said. does that make sense? his family is not believers and several years ago when he told his family he didn't believe in their religion anymore of course that hurt his dad a lot and also think that's a reason why he feels good about the whole religious history thing. now from my mom's standpoint, she thinks that my H is searching and that i should embrace this, that came out around the time around thanksgiving and i just told her that she didn't know how it felt to be married to someone who thinks they can pick and choose what they believe from the Bible and how scary it is to think that he might get involved into something that wasn't of God. i'm afraid he has, from my impression, again this is my impression, that the OW believes or practices a form of religion that had it's origins in witchcraft. i'm not going to go into that here but none the less, satan is and has been working his magic to rip apart my M.

i think my H confuses being religious and being a Christian. i think a lot of people confuse this and wish he could or would be around other men that he respected/admired and had a lot in common with who were Christians so he could see the differences. maybe he will someday, everything w/God is possible because he never fails. i still hold fast that God will convict my H and that his heart will be softened to me again so that we can rebuild a M that is pleasing to God. i know that i wasn't the helpmeet or mate that my H needed or that i was supposed to be. i didn't respect or admire my H or at least i didn't show him that i did. i had a lot of anger and over the years it was pretty common for me to hang up the phone on my H and i've even thrown things.

you know what? i cannot get angry anymore, i've actually thought about how good it would feel to get angry and hit a punching bag to get my agressions out. how is it possible that someone like me could possibly change from being so quick to anger to not even be mad at the people who have hurt me (my H, the OW, IL's)? of course, it's by the grace of God. yes, it's sad and tragic that the A is what it took for me to wake up to the MB concepts and become closer to God but here i am, here we are and because of that we are better people.

my mom is still so stunned at the way i have been since all of this has come out because it's just not normal for me. the old me would have hunted the OW down and beat the crap out of her and would have done everything i could not to ever let my H out of my sight again. but i've realized that's part of the reason why i'm here because of the way i've been. my mom came up a few weeks ago (she lives about 6 hours away) and attended the church where i've been going since Dday. she was just so happy and cried because she really felt this is where God wanted me to be (in that church) even if i was all by myself that God was still sending lots of support my way.

i also saw the Passion of Christ and the humbled me incredibly. i don't even listen to music anymore because it just makes me sad it one way or another. but i have been listening to a radio station at work and in my truck that has absolutely been wonderful and helped me out a lot, it's through the Bott radio network. have you heard of it? not sure if you would really have the time i do to listen to it but i think it would be a blessing to you to listen when and if you can.

well i have truly rambled on and taken over your thread. just felt like sharing that w/you and anyone else who has stuck w/this post to the end <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> prayers to you.

Wow, RR, that is a great sharing. you don't call that insightful? I have many thoughts, but it is hard for me to pu them in writing, maybe partialy due to that I am not a native English speaker.

Please keep sharing with me and others hear. I am in Michigan.

RR,

I just read your last post, and I understand so much of what you are saying from first-hand experience. My WH also professed Christ, though a few more years ago than yours did. However, he's not done anything with it either. He seems to pick and choose what he wants to believe, and for me that has been very difficult through all this. I want to believe that deep down, he really is trusting Christ for his salvation and that God will work to soften his heart, too. I just don't know where he stands.

Also, I have been a Christian since I was 21, but was fairly weak and non-committed until just a few years ago. The 9/11 incidents really brought me around to what was important in my life. I've done much better, but still tend to let life get in the way of my Bible reading, prayer, etc., and then it's easy to fall away. If anything good can be said about WH's A is that it has also forced me to depend on God and not so much on others, and it's brought me closer to him again. I also have a very quick temper, and just 5 years ago, would have done a major number on both my WH and the OW. I still have lashed out, but just find in general that I am more calm and am able to overlook more or not let it upset me than I would have in the past. How? Only by God's grace.

He is allowing all this to happen to us for a reason, and I'm sure spiritual growth is a big part of it.

LL

LH, LL, so glad we are all here together and in the same plan, God's plan that is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> much love to you both.

oops, double post, was having computer problems.

[ May 05, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: roughroad ]

Hi, friends. I was psoting in Momto3boy's thread: Pictures from SF. B/c I was talking Titleist. He is really helpful. You can find Wh's EN over there.

After I told him what happened on Sat. and last night's lesson, Dr. harley gave me this reply:

lostnhurt: The POJA, along with everything else I presented in the MBW, is a reminder to be thoughtful, especially to the one we promised to cherish for life. A bad marriage is caused by nothing more than the thoughtlessness of one or both spouses. If we could all simply care for each other the way we would want to be cared for ourselves, all our marriages would be successful.

I'm afraid that your husband's affair may just be the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his thoughtlessness, and while the seminar offers him a chance to take a different path, he may find that turning away from a wasted lifetime of thoughtlessness is too difficult for him to achieve.

Years from now your husband will look back at this week as a decisive moment in his life. He will have either decided to change the course of his life, and have become a man that both you and others can admire, or he will continue on the path he's taken, and end up wasting the life God's given him. Time will tell what course he chooses, but at least he has taken the first step to discover the path that leads to marital recovery. The next step is to walk on that path.

He is so RIGHT about this M. Just like SH said, A is just a symptom of a bad M. I really think that it is the cause. It brought back so much bad memory on how treated me. I feel so sad and angry now. Like NY, I don't know whether I want to take him back any more.

Yikes everybody, this is supposed to be marriage builders. Now we're all thinking about whether we want WS or not. Hmmm, must be something in the air.

Believer, you know that our mood is in the rollercoster now. WH is disappearing again. If you know what he did Saturday, being thoughtless, you would understand why Dr. Harley said that. The bad feeling haunted me again, after reading Harley's reply, it turned to angry. I don't know how I feel now, just numb.

This was I posted earlier in another thread.

Talk about the top EN, he listed in this order, from top down.

1. An attractive spouse, comment: it is the taste
2. Conversation, no comment
3.Recreational comp. comment: she doesn't know what I need the most.
4.Financial support. comment: I don't have any problem for her for financial support. however, if she insiste to work, she must do a good job.
5.Domestics support. Comment: I have no need for domestic support. I believe that the domestic support should be shared. I do share indeed.
6. Admiration. Evaluation is I am extremely satisfied. Comment: Now it seems she is starting doing it. I just don't know how long it will last.
7.Affection. Comment: never happened. Don't get used to.
8. SF. comment: too late.
9.family commitment. I get the highest score in this one and he said he is extremely satisfied. No comment.
10. Honesty and openess. comment: I like to share the future plan.

Do I believe him? I think SF should be #1. I asked him about it. He said he had suffered too long, he doesn't need it now. It is too late.

About the physical attraction, he said that I had no taste. he's been critizing been all along. he said that I did not decorate the house good enough, I didn't dress right. he wants me to wear long hair, but I had it short. Why can he decorate the house? Why doesn't he help me or give opinion how I dress. I was driven nuts.

Did you see the financial part? I've been working two jobs. I made more than him last year. He said that I have to do a good job, I don't know what he means.

He refused to do anything with me. In fact, as I predicted, I called him and he told me he is not coming home tonight. B/c I am home. He told me he would go out to be with his "friends" to the bar. Which friend? OW? I don't know. he never answer the phone either when he was out. That is my biggest need, openness and honesty. He said he wasnt to share futrue plan with me, what kind, a D? If I didn't call him, he would just vanish. I feel bad again. T, you know why I am so frustrated now.

I do agree with Believer and all about not being sure we want our WS's back. I feel the same way when I think back on how I have really been treated for the last 19 years and how others have commented on how selfish my H has always been. But maybe it is something in the air? I did notice it was a full moon last night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LNH,

I admit I would have been angry and/or hurt at some of the EN comments, too, but count yourself lucky in that at least your WH has filled it out. Mine refused a long time ago and when I recently asked him what some of his top needs were, he told me he doesn't know--that he's just not that deep. So I have nothing to go on.

As for taste, I thought your house looked very nice in the pictures. But if he doesn't like it, somehow you will have to get his input on decorating. I don't know how. My WH doesn't care at all. And as for personal taste, I thought you looked fine, but maybe go to a mall or something with him and as you walk past the store fronts, ask him if he sees anything that he likes?

In general, I'm guessing he doesn't want to give you high ratings in any area because if he does, then he will have a problem justifying his reason for having an A.

As for SF, it must be higher than #9?? I smiled at your "4 times" comment. I can say in 23 years together, we've never done it over 3 times in a day and that is RARE! Three times in a month was rare for us!

I think he's stuck in that same dense fog that they're all in. What does SH say about eventually needing to do a Plan B if WH doesn't come around?

I've lost enough love (and just like they said - when it happens, it happens very quickly!) that I should be in Plan B now. I really don't think I care if WH comes back to me. Sure, I'd miss him. But it's actually quite calm with him not around. I am holding out for Plan B until the end of May because of all our obligations this month, but it's very hard to do any good Plan A at this point. I am trying.

You are very strong. As you are able to detach from your WH a little bit (which it sounds like you are now doing), it does get less painful. I never thought I'd be saying that even 2 months ago, but I am and it's the truth. I have my appetite back and although I am lonely, I don't feel all that bad most days.

Hang in there. Keep praying for strength and guidance.

LL

Dr harley said i should go to Plan B soon.

I feel so sad now. Just sad.

lostnhurt -

Well I don't think you did too bad on his EN questionnaire. Now let's turn it around.

Him -

1. An attractive spouse, comment: don't know,
haven't seen him.
2. Conversation, comment: He's not doing too well.
3.Recreational comp. comment: He doesn't do with you.
4.Financial support. comment: OK
5.Domestics support. Comment: He helps sometimes.
6. Admiration. Evaluation is I am extremely satisfied. Comment: He does not seem to admire you.
7.Affection. Comment: None
8. SF. comment: 4 times since A
9.family commitment. He's not too committed.
10. Honesty and openess. comment: He's not too honest, not too open.

lostnhurt-

Since he has told you how to improve (again), you can work on that. He wants long hair, and you can grow it long, but then he might complain because it is black.

You can buy new clothes, but they may be too red.

So he has a beautiful, brilliant, wife, who keeps the house nice, cooks for him, is a good mother, a great provider financially, a kind, loving person, is understanding, has redecorated the bedroom (even though the spread was too red), has put up with his faults, wants him back even though he has lied, been cruel, and unfaithful.

Still he wants more. Sweetie, I think there is something wrong with HIM. He is temporarily insane. I am still very hopeful for your situation. You are still very new in this, give it more time.

Of course there is a lot of things wrong with him, but his mom thought I was wrong, his dear son is always right.

I just sent you couple family pictures. Tell me whether I am uglier than him.

LnH -

I got your email with the pictures, but could not open them. Please send again.

I just sent again.

An almost sleepless night. Wh disappeared again without trace. I thought I had dealt with it better, but now my anxiety is back. I couldn't fall asleep before taking an Xenax. I don't know how to deal with this anymore.

Tonight supposed to be another lesson time, will he do it? Will he be here? If he keep disappearing like this, what is the point of going through the lesson? I am so fed up, frustrated, disappointed, and sad.

Cherished, haven't seen you for a while. How are you doing? Miss you and prayers for you.

Hi, my friends. I had started a new thread in
G II called Soon to be in Plan B. Please visit there.

Lostnhurt,
I have been following your thread. I thought that the MBW was unlikely to be the turning point for your H. For whatever reason, you accomodated his thoughtless behavior. The affair was "the straw that broke the camel's back", not an addiction which developed due to lack of self-protection against developing a love relationship with another woman (something that I think may have been the case with dadto3boys).

I'll give you something to consider from my own story. When the A came to light, I was close to nervous breakdown. I told my family about not just the A but also that he had broken my arm four months previously and that he had been physically abusive during most of our M. That was a shock to my family and somewhat to his. They took the position of "You need to do the Christian thing and forgive him", and my family took the position of "Throw the bum out."

A very wise friend of mine told me at the time to go into a long-term separation and plan for it to be permanent. I knew that I contributed to problems in the M, so I was unwilling to do that.

BIG mistake. As long as he was in my company, he could blame me for his behavior. He didn't have to face his own behavior.

I did throw him out of the house for two months, but it was hardly a separation. He would come back home to cut his hair. I wasn't willing to give him up. What I really wasn't willing to do was FACE THE REALITY that his choices are his choices and not mine. As long as I wasn't facing that reality, he didn't have to face that reality either.

That went on and on from May 4, 2002 (D-day) until December 9, 2003 when I sat him down and said I was ending MC but we could try the MB program. I do have a thread in the private forum which is long and to which Harley basically says to follow the program of 15 hours per week together. Believe it or not, my H is starting to meet my EN of affection but only because his alternative is that I will file for D.

You know what? You aren't in the M for financial reasons. You can force your H to support his children. You are in this M to get your ENs met and to meet those of your H. You tolerated thoughtless behavior for years and now he has done the ultimate thoughtless thing of having an A. If you let him know, gently, kindly, that you are willing to go through the MB program of recovery with him and he makes the choice not to, then your Plan A may be interpreted by him as your willingness to tolerate his utter disregard for the impact of his choices on you and your children. The MBW is a decision point for him. It sounds like he is trying to it just a diversion.

I wish I could save you and your children the pain that I went through for more than 18 months as I tried to influence his behavior. IMHO, the most influential thing you can do is to make it clear that his behavior is intolerable, and the way to do that is to go to Plan B.

After what you've already been through, I wouldn't give him even a few weeks! You've had the MBW. He's disappearing. It's sad to face. It's hard to face. You can let him know that you are willing to have him back if he is willing to go through this program of recovery, and that's it.

Do you really want to continue in your M as it is? If not, Plan B.

I don't think I could have gotten through to myself in the state I was in in May, 2002, so I don't expect to get through to you. Harley is right.

I will hold out this to you in hope. I gained 60 lbs. between when Tom and I were dating and last month, 40 of them gained in the two years since 1/3/02 when the A still wasn't exposed but I said "I want you to care about me more than Sophia" and he said "If it wasn't for the kids, I'd have been long gone.

Well, I have lost 10 of those pounds. Do you know why? I was starved for affection, and food was a poor substitute for what he gave to this other woman but didn't give to me after we were M. He is really having a hard time with being affectionate. He has no problem with sex but finds something as affectionate as French kissing to be inappropriate because of the lack of connection between us. Nevertheless, he is starting to be affectionate, I am starting to enjoy it, and my weight is starting to drop. I even felt a fleeting moment of love -- that in-love feeling that I haven't felt since the month we were M.

Follow Harley's advice. If you persist in Plan A, he will persist in thinking he can get away with thoughtless behavior. Plan B protects you. He and he alone will make the decision to go through MW program with you. By going to Plan B, you are making it clear that your old M is dead. You are open to a new M when your needs are met.

Cherished

[ May 06, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]

Chrished,

You are so right. I will talk to SH tomorrow to see what the concrete steps are. I don't want to go through the legal steps, just let him out of the house. I don't want to see him anymore.

But i also have to talk to him to let him know about these thoughtless behavior. I tolerated to him for too long so he was doing it effortless. It becoame his habits and normal thought process. I have to make clear my position and tell him what is the condition to be back together. But he wants an D anyway, let him have it.

I'll just post under GQII after this, but IMHO, you'll be happier D than in such a bad M. Me, too.

And the only hope of a good M is to make a bad M, pandering to a Freeloader, not an option. Your H needs to grow up.

lostnhurt - Hope you are doing well teaching math. I still cannot see your pictures, it just brings up an advertisement for msn. I think my browser has been hijacked. Please post pictures on MB page. I wanna see them.

Believer, I jsut sent pictures again. Please let me know if you get them ok this time.

I have my posts in GQII now.