Two years later - 08/15/11 09:38 PM
Howdy, folks! So here I am two years later, and wanted to drop in to give an update. I'm a big believer that focusing on fundamentals won't steer you wrong when it comes to MarriageBuilding. What are the fundamentals?
So how are we doing? We're meeting our fifteen hours a week, by and large. When we don't make it, we start mentioning how we feel to one another and find a way to fix it. My work schedule the past month and a half has been extremely hectic, so we took a two-day "mini vacation" together to compensate. This is a pretty common strategy for us when we start getting behind: jump-start meeting the hours again by scheduling time away.
POJA is how we do almost everything now. And what a huge difference it makes! Our default question if we want to do something is "how would you feel if I...?". And if our spouse does something that bothers us, we state the hurt in terms like "I'd love if it..." There are very few exceptions to the rule, and by and large they are only areas where we did not realize our spouse would be offended, and Radical Honesty allows us to address them in short order. We've had a lot of conflicts -- daily, sometimes hourly in fact! -- but haven't had a fight since we met with Jennifer Harley Chalmers in January of 2010.
The only long-standing exception to the POJA is her church involvement. We negotiate about activities, but not the attendance itself. Dr. Harley advised me personally to leave resolving this issue alone for a few more years and ensure we're continuing to do everything else right before attempting to tackle the issue together.
The church issue, in my opinion, remains a wedge preventing some intimacy in our relationship. It was the crack the other man used to get my wife to open up to him. It remains foremost in my mind as the most likely vector for any man to come close to her again. She strictly polices her boundaries with other men and is also aware of her weakness there; she never intends to allow any man other than me to be a close friend again.
But as of a few months ago, she still feels she lacks a feeling of "spiritual intimacy" with me. When she discusses spiritual things, I'll nod encouragingly and listen attentively, but she knows I typically don't agree with what she's saying, so doesn't share a lot. Part of it, I realize, is the whole "enemy of good conversation" thing: when she begins to discuss spiritual topics, I stop being such an active participant and become more of a listener. If I say what I'm thinking at that point, she sees my disagreement as a disrespectful judgment about her beliefs. Kind of a no-win situation at present.
Radical Honesty? We do try to share all our feelings, particularly if something bothers us. The vast majority of our conversations are positive, but Radical Honesty allows us to deal with problem areas before they fester. We also follow this approach with our kids, and the children have learned to warn their friends that we are Radically Honest in our household, and to expect bluntness and potentially embarrassing conversations This change has also helped our two teenagers to keep the lines of communication with us open, and we feel we can have extremely frank discussions with them.
Over the past two years, I've noticed very interesting trends. One of them is that although my wife says Domestic Support is her #1 need, her behavior says otherwise. Based on how she acts when needs are met, I'd say that her most important needs are Intimate Conversation, Financial Support, Family Commitment, and Affection. In particular, going shopping together and spending time together when prior to the affair we'd have spent time separately seems to result in the most Love Bank deposits all around; when I'm doing a lot of work on my second or third jobs and money is not tight, she seems much happier.
That said, Affection seems to encompass a lot more than just physical affection. It's helping out around the house when she's overburdened. It's doing things for her when she doesn't have time to do them by herself. It's buying things for her and taking her places, giving her things to look forward to, taking care of minor issues around the home, etc. Although she maintains it's the "Domestic Support" she wants, just doing chores around the house does not seem to increase my Love Bank balance with her in any visible way. It's the action of showing her affection in several different ways *including* doing things around instead of her having to do them that results in her acting as if she's in a state of Intimacy with me.
Think more Five Love Languages in terms of 'Acts of Service' than the way a typical male thinks of Affection and you'll get my drift.
I've watched my needs change over the course of the past two years, as well. Immediately after her affair, Honesty & Openness topped my list. Getting her to open up about her thoughts was hugely important to me, and I felt a greater love for her when she did so. That need has diminished somewhat as she's consistently been open & honest about herself and I've verified the information from time to time. Now simple Radical Honesty is typically enough.
Sexual Fulfillment has also moved down the list. I'm not twenty-five anymore (38 now!), and my interest has waned considerably. I don't think I need to see a doctor about my lack of interest yet, but once or twice a week is about all I need to feel good in that area.
Conversely, my needs for Recreational Companionship and Domestic Support have increased considerably I think it's time to re-evaluate our needs using Dr. Harley's "Imagine that if you don't list it in these five needs, your spouse will never, ever meet that need again in any way" guideline to filling out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. I think doing it that way will help us get a handle on what our actual most important needs are now.
Anyway, so that's where we are. Are we better than we were before the affair? Absolutely. Are we better than we've ever been? In terms of Love Busters, and meeting each others emotional needs, absolutely. In terms of spiritual connectedness, we were better back when I was Mormon, and I'm really not certain how -- or, if I'm to follow Dr. Harley's advice, if at all -- to address that. It's a fairly deep incompatibility, yet we find other ways to remain in love despite it and do our best to ignore it.
Overall, Dr. Harley's method works. Both of us agree it saved our marriage. It affected my wife so profoundly she plans to set up a marriage coaching practice based on the Harley principles. I still listen to Dr. Harley's broadcasts nearly every day, and doing so helps to keep me grounded in my priorities.
- The Policy of Joint Agreement. Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.
- The Policy of Undivided Attention. Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week,
using the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment - The Policy of Radical Honesty. Reveal to your spouse as much information about yourself as you know; your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities, and plans for the future.
So how are we doing? We're meeting our fifteen hours a week, by and large. When we don't make it, we start mentioning how we feel to one another and find a way to fix it. My work schedule the past month and a half has been extremely hectic, so we took a two-day "mini vacation" together to compensate. This is a pretty common strategy for us when we start getting behind: jump-start meeting the hours again by scheduling time away.
POJA is how we do almost everything now. And what a huge difference it makes! Our default question if we want to do something is "how would you feel if I...?". And if our spouse does something that bothers us, we state the hurt in terms like "I'd love if it..." There are very few exceptions to the rule, and by and large they are only areas where we did not realize our spouse would be offended, and Radical Honesty allows us to address them in short order. We've had a lot of conflicts -- daily, sometimes hourly in fact! -- but haven't had a fight since we met with Jennifer Harley Chalmers in January of 2010.
The only long-standing exception to the POJA is her church involvement. We negotiate about activities, but not the attendance itself. Dr. Harley advised me personally to leave resolving this issue alone for a few more years and ensure we're continuing to do everything else right before attempting to tackle the issue together.
The church issue, in my opinion, remains a wedge preventing some intimacy in our relationship. It was the crack the other man used to get my wife to open up to him. It remains foremost in my mind as the most likely vector for any man to come close to her again. She strictly polices her boundaries with other men and is also aware of her weakness there; she never intends to allow any man other than me to be a close friend again.
But as of a few months ago, she still feels she lacks a feeling of "spiritual intimacy" with me. When she discusses spiritual things, I'll nod encouragingly and listen attentively, but she knows I typically don't agree with what she's saying, so doesn't share a lot. Part of it, I realize, is the whole "enemy of good conversation" thing: when she begins to discuss spiritual topics, I stop being such an active participant and become more of a listener. If I say what I'm thinking at that point, she sees my disagreement as a disrespectful judgment about her beliefs. Kind of a no-win situation at present.
Radical Honesty? We do try to share all our feelings, particularly if something bothers us. The vast majority of our conversations are positive, but Radical Honesty allows us to deal with problem areas before they fester. We also follow this approach with our kids, and the children have learned to warn their friends that we are Radically Honest in our household, and to expect bluntness and potentially embarrassing conversations This change has also helped our two teenagers to keep the lines of communication with us open, and we feel we can have extremely frank discussions with them.
Over the past two years, I've noticed very interesting trends. One of them is that although my wife says Domestic Support is her #1 need, her behavior says otherwise. Based on how she acts when needs are met, I'd say that her most important needs are Intimate Conversation, Financial Support, Family Commitment, and Affection. In particular, going shopping together and spending time together when prior to the affair we'd have spent time separately seems to result in the most Love Bank deposits all around; when I'm doing a lot of work on my second or third jobs and money is not tight, she seems much happier.
That said, Affection seems to encompass a lot more than just physical affection. It's helping out around the house when she's overburdened. It's doing things for her when she doesn't have time to do them by herself. It's buying things for her and taking her places, giving her things to look forward to, taking care of minor issues around the home, etc. Although she maintains it's the "Domestic Support" she wants, just doing chores around the house does not seem to increase my Love Bank balance with her in any visible way. It's the action of showing her affection in several different ways *including* doing things around instead of her having to do them that results in her acting as if she's in a state of Intimacy with me.
Think more Five Love Languages in terms of 'Acts of Service' than the way a typical male thinks of Affection and you'll get my drift.
I've watched my needs change over the course of the past two years, as well. Immediately after her affair, Honesty & Openness topped my list. Getting her to open up about her thoughts was hugely important to me, and I felt a greater love for her when she did so. That need has diminished somewhat as she's consistently been open & honest about herself and I've verified the information from time to time. Now simple Radical Honesty is typically enough.
Sexual Fulfillment has also moved down the list. I'm not twenty-five anymore (38 now!), and my interest has waned considerably. I don't think I need to see a doctor about my lack of interest yet, but once or twice a week is about all I need to feel good in that area.
Conversely, my needs for Recreational Companionship and Domestic Support have increased considerably I think it's time to re-evaluate our needs using Dr. Harley's "Imagine that if you don't list it in these five needs, your spouse will never, ever meet that need again in any way" guideline to filling out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. I think doing it that way will help us get a handle on what our actual most important needs are now.
Anyway, so that's where we are. Are we better than we were before the affair? Absolutely. Are we better than we've ever been? In terms of Love Busters, and meeting each others emotional needs, absolutely. In terms of spiritual connectedness, we were better back when I was Mormon, and I'm really not certain how -- or, if I'm to follow Dr. Harley's advice, if at all -- to address that. It's a fairly deep incompatibility, yet we find other ways to remain in love despite it and do our best to ignore it.
Overall, Dr. Harley's method works. Both of us agree it saved our marriage. It affected my wife so profoundly she plans to set up a marriage coaching practice based on the Harley principles. I still listen to Dr. Harley's broadcasts nearly every day, and doing so helps to keep me grounded in my priorities.