My BS, and I are now going into our 7th month of recovery. We have come a long way ~ our "biggest accomplishment" this far has been our 6500km move from where my A took place.
We have been doing extremely well - where some may remember the turmoil we started with - AO's, DJ's, violence, etc have all been eliminated, I believe the forum and the program saved us AND our marriage.
The problem, I'm facing now is still the guilt - I feel like I'm drowning in it, Im reminded of it everyday - through a sound or a thought, I feel the depression has increased and with it the self-loathing, I can't get rid of it, it's everywhere.
I don't know how to settle it or work through it. I need help.

You have to try someway of forgiving yourself RNR2013 has forgiven you and has willingly given you another shot because he knows you are worth it and that you were just lost, in every marriage one has to be strong enough for the both of you��
It is still really early and you are now just realizing the full impact on your life as well, so you were stupid as long as you aren't anymore and you make your husband know everyday what an idiot you were and how lucky you feel now to still be with him and have your family, he saved you���make sure he knows this.
you saved your family too, you could gone the other way and everyone's life would be worse for it�
let the program keep working for you two, and don't let your past take any more of your future with him and your children�..you are letting that happen, you made a mistake we all do���..
sit down and talk to him about it, keep the communication open let him help you��
thank your lucky stars and be the best person you can chose to be because it is a choice��.time will heal and it should get better as your relationship becomes better don't' let it slip again��..sometimes an awful situation can bring a turn around that is heaven sent�..your marriage is better , your a better person, your family is together��..it's all that is important ���don't live in the past��new beginning...

Is he still working out of town? Are you on ADs?

No, Dr. Harley said it was a bad idea, so he's still home, he did not leave. Yes, I'm on AD's, have An appointment with my new doctor this coming Friday.

Hi Mrs. Cen~

I am a FWW myself -- my affair was 8 years ago and Mr. W and I are happily recovered today. Perhaps my perspective might be of some use to you -- I hope so.

First, I don't think guilt is a bad thing -- it is a sign that your conscience is working and that is GOOD. However, you can't let guilt consume you by dwelling in the past, rather you must shift your thoughts to TODAY and who you are NOW. Wallowing in guilt can really become a selfish indulgence -- certainly an albatross around your neck -- and around your spouse's neck. How can you offer him a marriage better than the one you had if you are forever dwelling on how bad you were? You can't.

I'm also not sure the age old "forgiving yourself" is really the right terminology either. In my view what I did 8 years ago will ALWAYS be bad -- So I don't spend any mental energy in trying to make something bad good because that is not possible, and would be a colossal waste of time. Instead, I choose to do good now -- understanding that feelings follow actions. When I do good, I feel good. It's a form of just compensation to yourself, and also to your spouse. Who wants to live with someone who is miserable and sad all the time? So live in the NOW, and be good. When your thoughts start to wander to the past, redirect yourself -- go do something good for your marriage and watch your feelings follow those actions.

You can't change the past, Mrs. Cen, but you can commit to never repeating past mistakes by taking action to make it so.

Mrs. W

Something else I thought of: There will continue to be consequences of the affair throughout the years -- that is just the cold, hard truth of the matter. Some will be small, and others may be bigger. I think you must come to expect and accept that part of it -- almost like, "Sure it's a ball and chain, but it's MY ball and chain, and I will pick it up when necessary and deal with it -- take it in stride, accept it, and move on to bigger and better things -- sometimes I can use it to help others, other times I can use it to better myself and my marriage -- but it will NOT weigh us down unless I let it, and I am committed to not letting it".

Mrs. W

How much UA time are ya'll getting a week? Are you enjoying it?

Feeling guilt is a GOOD thing. It means you're not a sociopath!
However, dwelling on the past is detrimental to your marriage and to you. Start focusing on the present. Are you enjoying the time with your husband in the present? Are you getting enough time with him? Are the two of you building a better marriage today?

The more in love you are with your husband, the more distant the past will seem.

Good. How much UA time are you getting? I'm such an action oriented person. If I come up with a Plan and follow it I get through my "down feelings".

Can you write out your UA schedule this week? Has he had any AOs at all?

I want to comment here, with some caveat -

When you make a drastic lifestyle change, which happens when you learn to prioritize and protect your marriage, you can encounter situations which seem like "consequences of the A."

There will be plenty of times where you may feel this way, but learn to remind yourself; putting my marriage first and protecting it is not a CONSEQUENCE. It is protecting what is most important. If that has anything to do with infidelity, it is preventing it.

Not. a. consequence.


Now... moving on....



People have been stating that guilt can be a GOOD thing. I agree...


Have you considered that with all the recent changes and efforts put forth by you and your husband is starting to rebuild his Love Bank balance with you? That you are falling back in love with him?

Have you considered that your Giver might just be kicking in (review the giver if needed) and kicking you a bit, going "You idiot, what did you do?"

So, do a little giving. Set some UA time when the guilt kicks in. Have a snuggle. Share a bath... turn that energy towards your husband, and ease the guilt with a little Extraordinary care.

You may find it works.

No AO's at all, in fact since the move we've had none!.
I think we're getting enough UA time,

Our week

Sun - drove up the shore, spent another hour walking along the beach - 2 hrs, coffes on the deck 1/2 her TOTAL = 2.5

Mon - am snuggle/hang out 1/2 hr, met me for lunch 1/2hr, evening coffee/walk 1hr TOTAL = 2

Tues - am snuggle/hang out 1/2hr, met me for lunch 1/2 hr, walk around the neighbourhood 1hr TOTAL 2

Wed - am snuggle/hang out 1/2hr, he did my hair/bedtime coffe and chat 1.5hr TOTAL 2.5

Thurs - am snuggle/hang out 1/2 hr, met me for lunch 1/2hr, evening coffee 1 hr TOTAL 2

Fri - am snuggle/hang out 1/2hr, met me for lunch 1/2hr, walk 1/2hr, evening coffee 1hr TOTAL 2.5

Sat - am snuggle/hang out 1hr, drove to the beach, walked 1hr, layed in bed talking 1 hr, evening coffee 1hr TOTAL 4

Total = 17.5

I make it a point to wake up a bit earlier everyday so that we have that 1/2hr alone time before our day starts, same goes for bedtime - we want that time to share a coffee talk about our day etc.

This is proof that Mra W and MR W are one in the same person. As Clark Kent/Superman. For they both write with the same high level.

If not the same person then they must be twins.

You can always tell us apart. She uses perfect grammar and cares about spelling. If you see an error...don't blink because she'll actually go back and edit her errors whereas I could care less.

She also generally uses a lot more and

She's also a lot kuter then me

Oh...an look, I lie about our ages in my signature lines and forget to update our daughters age for years at a time.

Mrs. Cen, have you seen the managing memories thread, it was extremely helpful for me. As you say, triggers are everywhere, but you have to learn to manage them and to avoid all those feelings.

I tried getting the link for you, but can't access the thread, hope someone else can give it to you. I saved some stuff on my computer from the thread in case you can not find it.

Very good to hear about the AOs!
Now that the lovebusters are out of the way, both your lovebanks are open to being filled.

I see that the majority of your UA is taking place at home, or in 1/2 hour increments. While getting up early together and meeting you for lunch for 1/2 an hour are good things to do, they really are not the best ways to spend UA. UA time is more efficient if it is LARGE blocks of time together outside of the house. Such as 3-4 hours instead of 30 minutes here and there.

Also, the 15 hour mark is for maintaining the lovebank balance. The two of you should be striving for 20-25 hours together in order to build romantic love.

Why don't ya'll plan some longer dates outside of the house?

Here are some good clips about triggers.
Dr. Harley on How to Deal with Triggers

I think I was not clear in what I meant by consequences, HHH. Never has anything we've done to protect our marriage been viewed as a "consequence". Not at all. But there ARE consequences that follow adultery -- that is true of all choices in life -- I am not complaining, nor do I recommend doing so. My recommendation is acceptance of all responsibility and all consequences.

Offhand, here are a couple of examples from our lives:

-Our daughter's reaction upon learning the truth -- it was awful, but it was not the truth that caused that damage/consequence -- it was the adultery.

-A friend gossiping about the affair to acquaintances. I was hurt, sure, but really I had to take it in stride -- an affair is considered "juicy gossip" after all -- if I hadn't done what I did there wouldn't have been gossip to spread. I let it go and accepted that consequence.

Hope this explanation clears things up.

Mrs. W

*couldn't care less
*cuter
*and
*signature line
*daughter's



AS IF to "perfect grammar"!

and finally...

SHADDUP ROAD!

Mrs. W

I'm ain't sure but I think you missed an airror in their.

"kuter then me"

shouldn't it be either

"cuter than me"

or

"cuter than I"


????? just not shure.

Mrs. W

Those are concrete examples, and I agree.


SO, for what I am talking about;

- not being able to go on a vacation with a sibling/family member without your spouse; NOT a consequence, a protective measure.

- a spouse no longer working a travel job; NOT a consequence, a protective measure.

- moving several states away after an A; NOT a consequence... what? NOT a consequence. Triggers in the area in which it occurred are a consequence, moving away is a protective measure.

- life/marriage no longer being child-centered; NOT a consequence, a protective measure.

These are things that pop up frequently during recoveries here. They are not, in fact, consequences of infidelity. Rather, they are GOOD marital habits.

How's it going, Mrs. Cen?

Mrs. W

We are good Mrs. W - working on implementing some more of te suggestions for UA time.

Has your husband found employment?

YES!!! Finally!, we are both now working full time, so I'm hoping that, some of that stress will now be resolved.
We have also begun planning a weekend trip to New York - first time in the US for both of us and first trip alone! so we are super excited.

What an awesome update! I'm thrilled to hear it, Mrs. Cen! And New York? You lucky dawg you! Now if you say you guys are getting tickets to see Wicked I will be so jealous that I'll be greener than Elphaba!

Mrs. W

That's wonderful news, mrs_cen! I saw your other post about the big reduction in panic attacks, too, and no angry outbursts from either of you. This is the result of following Dr H's advice about UA time, eliminating LBs, not talking about the affair and moving, even when it seemed that you were taking a big leap. Your marriage is on the road to recovery. Keep it up, and make sure you get to New York! Send us a postcard!

I sure will!

This is such GREAT news mrs.cen Very happy for you!

Wonderful news.

Thanks both of you - Markos & Prisca (for everything)
Brainy, ML, SusieQ - you guys to!!!

**edit**

Dr. Harley advocates two approaches toward dealing with memories:
Avoid situations that trigger the memory, and
If that is not possible, then "saturation" is an option: revisit those places/occasions that cause triggers, and find ways to transform the trigger. This is much, much harder.

***edit***

Just wanted to add that when Dr Harley says "not possible," he is not talking about situations such as infidelity, but things like a fear of elevators, trauma associated with a tragic event, etc. He has recommended flooding in some extreme cases because if a person does not get over her fear of elevators, for example, she may eventually be faced with an 80 story building. He does not recommend flooding in the case of infidelity.

Absolutely, good point. I've heard him mention things like grocery stores: if your spouse had an affair and met at the grocery store, it's not like you're going to stay out of the fruit & nut section the rest of your life. So "flooding" or "saturation" is a valid tactic there, too.

I have heard him say he doesnt apply the flooding strategy to affairs. Where does he apply it to grocery stores? In the case of the grocery store and the affair, the trigger would typically be a specific grocery store,[or a chain] which should be avoided.

I'd say I'll see if I can dig up the show where he gave that example to a woman suffering extreme anxiety many years after her husband's affair... but I'm both lazy and honest. So I won't :-)

I'm so happy for you!!! Congrats!!

Did you listen to these clips from Dr. Harley on triggers?

x100!

Mrscen, I also want to add I was so happy to see you posting & helping others recently. Bravo!

Not sure how I missed your post Brain, but I thank you for the link! I did set some time aside to listen, I also wrote down what I felt were some of my triggers and ways I could (a) avoid them (if possible) or (b) deal with them in a healthy way so as I don't allow them to be a "focus" in our lives.

Thanks Suzy! That means a lot coming from you!

As many know, my DH and I moved Sept 01/13 and have now been in our new place for 3 months. We have both found full time employment, and we continue to follow the program and Dr. H's advice.
My question is work related - I am a nurse and am working in one of four clinics owned by a group of doctors. I do have after hours contact numbers for the doctors, as well as the office manager and all the receptionists, should emergencies come up etc. I've never had to use the numbers until now. Tomorrow's clinic was scheduled to start at 11:00, that was at 4:00 today when the doctor left, however I had to put a patient in at 10:30. The doctor's have all said it's fine to get in touch with them after hours for just this reason and of course strictly for work related issues.
Is it ok to text the doctor to tell him he needs to come at 10:00 instead of 11:00 with the schedule change? I'm not comfortable calling, texting seems a bit more "impersonal" to me. I would of course talk to my DH and let him know, show him the text - I'm soooo scared to do something wrong and mess up our recovery, I just want to handle it properly so that our EP's remain strong, and since communicating with the opposite sex was an EP, does this mean I can't? And if I can't how do I let him know? As a side note all the doctors and my office manager are aware of our situation and my past - I felt I needed to be transparent with them, so that questions of why I couldn't attend work functions after hours if DH was working, travel for continued education without him etc.
Advice please??? I'm in a panic.
Sorry it's do long - I hope it makes sense.

My wife and I have a "no texting" EP, and even after 2 1/2 years, communication by texting would bother me. This situation is one for POJA. I would first tell your husband what the problem is, and seek his opinion on how to handle it. Being RH about the need for the communication and finding a mutually-acceptable solution is the way to go. Don't just decide something by yourself.

Is there a female coworker who could relay such messages for you?

I haven't been able to get ahold of DH, so what I did was text my office manager - who is female, and knows about everything and just asked her to relay the message.
I'm not sure how DH would feel, but until we can talk about it - your right MrEureka, I didn't want to make that decision alone.

I agree. This is definitely a POJA situation with your DH. Put a plan together for all scenarios that you may think will happen. It sounds like a good boundary to have is to ask a female coworker to relay the message.