How long did it take others on this forum to forgive WS?

A few years for me. He took him a long time to earn my forgiveness after making just compensation to me.

I haven't reached that stage yet. I just recently was able to let go of my resentment. But I don't feel kiss has earned forgiveness yet. I still need to see more action from him.

How are you doing, courageous?

Hi ML,

My WS still has more just compensation work to do before I can forgive.

Is my non forgiveness hampering our progress? Yesterday I started crying before sex because he didn't seem too eager to have sex. I had to ask him to comfort me and apologize. I still struggle with why he can't comfort and apologize on his own(he does on his own just not often enough for me) He started to withdraw and got frustrated and seemed angry. That makes me worse. I cried more and asked "why" referring to the affair. he then proceeded to lock himself in the spare bedroom and refused to talk. All I did was cry and ask why. Did I go wrong by asking why?

Hi Rocketqueen,

It seems like things go up and down, but overall forward progress. I just hate setbacks. It's during setbacks that I contemplate divorce, but I know that's not the answer either.

We have been doing coaching with Steve Harley (almost 30 sessions so far). SH is wonderful. NC plan is in place, EP's in place and we're both trying our best to work the MB plan. I struggle at times about getting comfort from WS when I'm in pain and apologies. Etc

C, it doesn't sound like "forgiveness" has anything to do with this. The problem is that you don't feel WANTED by him. He hurt your feelings when it seemed he didn't desire you sexually and that, in turn, triggered your feelings about the affair.

I would stop bringing up the affair and start working on creating a romantic, passionate marriage. How much UA time are you getting?

What the above describes is one of the enemies of good conversation. You made the present unpleasant by bringing up mistakes of the past. That affects your husband's feelings toward you. If you will stop doing that, and focus on being the BEST date possible, I predict his feelings with change and his desire will grow.

Have you listened to the clips in here?
Dr. Harley on How to Deal with Triggers

I thought that if I had totally forgiven him then I wouldn't respond like I did. I guess I've had "forgiveness" on the brain too much lately. It makes sense that it triggered the affair because of his not wanting me. I see the error of my ways. How will he want me if I get triggered, get emotional and then remind him of his past wrongs. I wish it was easier to rewrite the tapes. I will work harder at making things pleasant and get control of my thoughts and emotions. This is a struggle for me because I'm an emotional "cry at the drop of a hat" type of person, but you probably figured that out already. Lol

Enough UA time? Some weeks it's good and others not so good. It seems like some of our time is watching TV together. Is that really UA time? I need to read that section of HNHN book again.

A few thoughts:

1. The window to ask why did you? closed a while back. Maybe your husband is fully on board, but his non-interest in having sex is an alarm, so bringing up the affair has reset the clock on recovery.

2. Although my story and recovery is not the stuff of legends, I hold certain things as keys to continuing with her. One of the biggest is that I'll never forgive her. Or, it will be a long while until I feel forgiving her is right. She doesn't ask to be "forgiven". She's a firm follower of the concept 'time heals all wounds'. That remains to be seen.

3. It takes a lot not to get freaked when a trigger happens. Now, your husbands lack of intimacy is not helpful to your security. What crying or screaming at our ws upon a trigger is is an attempt to punish again. As soon as we grasp this, the better we are.

4. The best we can do now is make what we got as good as possible and discontinue the 'woe is me' routine. It's not attractive. It's that exact personality trait that leads to affairs. Confident people don't cheat. They speak with their spouses and tell them that which is bothering them before someone else figures it out. Stop crying.

I listened to the radio clips. They're good. I am still holding onto two gifts WS received from OW. I will destroy those TODAY. I was waiting to destroy them until I forgave him, but I see now that I'll never get to a happy marriage if I don't get rid of triggers.

Thanks for the links to the clips.

ok, I am confused about what you mean by "forgiveness" and why you are so obsessed with it. It will come when it comes. Don't worry about it. In the meantime, you are sabotaging your recovery by NOT TAKING STEPS to create a romantic relationship.

Stop talking about the affair. Just stop it. Stop telling him to apologize and give you comfort. It is a drag that brings him down and puts your goal of wanting to be desired farther away.


TV time does not count. What you need to be doing NOW is scheduling 4 4 hour dates per week out of the house. Use this worksheet to schedule 20+ hours per week. And I don't mean that you count time when you both happen to be in the house at the same time. I mean ONLY time that you are actively meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, rec companionship, sexual fulfillment and conversation.

Most couples REFUSE - I mean REFUSE - to do this step and the result is that they don't fall in love again. This program does not work without with this step, though. When Dr Harley was in active practice, he would not take on any client who would not commit to this step because in his words "my program does not work without it."

This is the glaring hole in your recovery. You want to be desired by your husband but you are not taking the steps to effect that desire. And you desperately need to be desired in order to recover. His lack of desire triggers you terribly. Do you see how skipping this step has hindered your recovery?

Print this up today and sit down with your husband and start scheduling your time. [and no, passing each other in the hallway, sleeping and watching TV does not count!!]

The Policy of Undivided Attention

Undivided Attention worksheet

I think you believe that "forgiving" him will erase all the hurts, but that is not how it works. The way to erase all the pain and hurt is to create a great marriage NOW. When the present is happy the mind doesn't tend to go to the past.

Dr. Harley is not a big advocate of "forgiveness" when it comes to an affair because it is not helpful. A better plan is just compensation.

What other triggers are in your life? Does the OW live anywhere close to you? Does he ever see her in any capacity?

Another suggestion would be to move into a new house. This can make an amazing difference because the house you live in when you discover the affair tends to become a place of sadness.

Does the OW still work at the police station with your husband?

Thanks so much for the post.

Our sex life has been fairly good until the last couple of times. The SA was 1 1/2 years and probably an EA for a year or so prior to that with a co-worker. There is so much to heal from that it is driving me nuts, but I have to be more proactive at controlling my thoughts. I need to do more thought replacement and get busy doing other things instead of trying to find answers in books and Internet. I've already read them all and I know the answers.

I'm allowing myself to remain a victim and dwell in the "poor little me" world. This so NOT my character (at least I thought I was different). I'm usually positive, happy and goal oriented. I'm scared to death that this trauma will change my character. I've had a relatively easy and happy life so this has really thrown me into a tail spin.

My husband has only asked once right after DD to be forgiven. It will be awhile before I get to that point.

I don't talk about the affair usually at least not in the last 3-4 months. I had a relapse a few days ago by crying and asking why and also on the 1 year anniversary of DD on 11/13/13 and it has greatly set us back. It's about time I learn this lesson. Just because its the 1 year anniversary doesn't give me license to punish him.

Yes, I did ask "why" back in March. I need to get a handle on my emotions. I'm going to destroy any chance we have at recovery.

You ask your husband why he had an affair? He had an A for the reason many people have an affair. It's not really a mystery. He had an affair because he had the opportunity under conditions that allowed him to conduct a secret second life.

In Dr. Harley's words, "All of us can be trusted under certain conditions, and none of can be trusted under other conditions." The best way to avoid affairs is to PLAN not to have one. Planning not to have one would start with NEVER having a close friend of the opposite sex.

If your H provides Just Compensation, your marriage will thrive, and your resentment will fade away. It takes time and effort (learning the new habits of a great marriage) and plenty of UA time.

Like MelodLane posted to you, make sure your UA time really IS UA time. You are with each other one-on-one, focusing on meeting each others intimate ENs, avoiding the enemies of good converstaion. Dr.H's recommendation is four 4-hour dates away from the house...every single week.

If you both follow the MB guidelines, your marriage will recover, and your marriage will be better than it was befor the A.

I will stop obsessing about forgiveness. It will come when it comes. I've been listening to family members (one who is a former BS) who are telling me to forgive.

I have a big issue with asking him to apologize and give me comfort. I WILL STOP. Thanks for the "swift kick in the butt". I need it

Yes, I see now how skipping the step of UA time has hindered our recovery. I will talk to him today and get time scheduled.

There are a few other triggers inside the house like a broken door knob when fighting right after discovery. We'll fix that. She lives in the same town. A move is not an option at this point because I have a 87 year old widowed father with Alzheimer's that I help provide care for since he still lives at home.

WS tells me he doesn't see her. They still work at the same governmental agency, but in different departments. Because of my workplace exposure they are not allowed to work together or they could get fired. They work in separate buildings. I still want him to change jobs, but he won't. We've discussed this with SH and he says it depends on how we're doing with recovery and that sometimes the financial and other stresses it causes hamper recovery even more. I'm still not convinced. Initially I tried threats and then more requests to change jobs, but my WS doesn't get it. I am unsure if he still has yet to "get" how this affects me. What more can I do?

I would go into Plan B until he does leave the job. Recovery will be impossible as long as they work together. I wouldn't make a threat. Just tell him this won't work and make plans to separate.

Entire article here

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. He must certainly not work with his former lover and should probably live in some other city or state. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

Have you looked into nursing options? When my father was terminally ill and refused to go into a nursing home, my sisters and I hired nurses to come stay with him. It really wasn't that expensive to hire LPNs to come baby sit him.

You do have options here. But more importantly, he needs to leave the job. If he doesn't leave the you can NEVER be assured of the affair ending. He is perpetually triggered going to work with his OW every day. Dr Harley will tell you that recovery is impossible this way.

So I would address the job situation now. That is a non negotiable condition of recovery. Not negotiable! And if he won't leave the job that should tell you very clearly that he is not serious about recovery.

I will talk to SH about this since we are currently in his coaching system. It definitely isn't working for me. Over the past couple of weeks I reminded him twice about his A and he withdrew and got upset. Before I can do a Plan B I should probably do some good Plan A at least for a month or so.

Since my WS ended the A almost a year ago, would you do the Plan B as suggested when he hasn't ended the A. Would you do it without any warning?

You could also write Dr. Harley.


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.