Ok, I could really use some help. For real. FTF has been wonderful these past few years. Really. He's taken me out on dates, bought me flowers, stopped interrupting me when I talk (for the most part) but I still can't figure out why I don't want to have sex with him. I've tried reading romance novels, watching dirty movies, sex toys. What's wrong with me that I can't bring myself to want to have sex with a wonderful man that obviously loves me??

I have Dr. Harley state that women do not have the same desire to have sex as men do, but for the most part a willingness to have sex to feel closer to their H.

I do not remember the context, but he has advised some women to just incorporate it in their dates and not to wait for them to desire it explicitely. Your dates should incorporate: UA, RC, IC, affection and SF. It should be in a way that is comfortable for you, because you are the partner with the smaller need. Your husband should behave in a way that makes SF pleasant for you and should concentrate on meeting your needs. If you are used to have pleasant SF regularly, it will become a habit and will probably be less awkward.

You should be very carefull though, to not do anything you find unpleasant as this will trigger aversion. Why do you want to watch dirty movies anyway?

Please read Dr. H's writings on this topic:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/ss/50-1.html
and the Q&A colums on how to meet the need for sexual fulfullment.

You're in the online programme, aren't you?

I really think you should ask Dr Harley about this. We've given you and FTF the general advice that Dr H gives, and it hasn't helped. I do think you need his specialist help now - and you do have easy access to that.

I'm sure those who can't read the online forum would appreciate knowing how he responds, so would you update us on that?

I agree. If the general advice is not working, you need more specialized help. Let Dr. Harley know what's going on.

I keep the two of you in mind very often. I'm glad to hear how great FTF has become. There are probably some more things that can be done about this problem, and I echo the advice to talk to Dr. Harley about it. He may have additional suggestions for FTF, or he may have additional suggestions for you, or both.

We are pulling for you guys to become a fantastic marriage!

And I think the fact that you are here asking for help is fantastic and shows that a lot of things are obviously going right! You are probably right on the verge of complete success.

You might talk to Dr. Harley about whether or not you feel in love with FTF at this point.

You might try looking at Dr. Harley's article on sexual aversion.
You might also try looking at the material in the Sexual Fulfillment chapter of His Needs Her Needs and working through the material on it in the workbook.

I wouldn't mess with any more romance movies, dirty movies, or sex toys.

Definitely talk to Dr. Harley.

By the way, are you spending 15+ hours per week alone with FTF? Is it the highlight of your week? The best thing that happens to you all week? The escape for you from the stress of life?

The above would be part of the problem so I would eliminate all outside influences. It is not helping, but hurting the situation.

And how much UA time are you getting a week? Are you going out on 4 dates? If you aren't doing that, then nothing you do will work.

Very definitely do this. How you feel about him is crucial, not just that he loves you.

One thing to talk about with Dr. Harley is whether or not you feel arousal when you do these things.

If you don't, you might have a hormonal problem.
If you do, then you are likely causing a contrast effect in which your husband does not stand the chance to arouse you himself.

Thanks everyone! I am going to do all of those things and let you know what Dr. Harley says

I have actually been to see 3 different lady doctors and this is the advice I received from all of them- the romance novels, dirty movies, sex toys, etc. I did get my hormones tested. I was on the low end of the normal zone.

I think the problem is the expectation of sex. Yes, we go out and have a nice meal or catch a movie. Then come home and what does he expect? sex. It takes all the fun out of it. It stresses me out!

Here's a typical date scenario: dinner, movie, come home, hang out, have sex, I feel used

or

dinner, movie, come home, hang out, I pass out, no sex, next day he says he's unhappy

How can sex be fun at all when it's expected??

Would you be willing to initiate at other times, so that it is not expected?

And how is that working? We happen to know it doesn't work because it creates a contrast effect.


Can you take hormones?

Are you in love with FTF? Are you spending enough UA time together? That is what seems to be missing. You cite everything wonderful he does, but are you in love?

I don't understand how it takes the fun out sex if it is planned. Isn't that how dating works? Isn't dating fun? When people fall in love, they are not going out on "spontaneous" dates, they are going out on planned dates.

My question would be how enjoyable are your dates? Are you meeting each others intimate emotional needs? Is he affectionate? Is the conversation good?

And how many hours per week do you spend on dates?

I think you confuse expect it with want it. Normal for a husband to want to end a day with his wife with sex.

What is done during the day/dates to prime the pump, flirt talk, physical contact that slowly escalates throughout the day? I don't want an answer but ask to get you to answer yourself. Where are you and your husband dropping the ball? Opportunity to communicate.

One of them actually prescribed some sort of testosterone cream compound which I tried for about a month. It didn't seem to increase my desire at all. Then I went back to try to see the same doctor but she wasn't available. So I saw the nurse practitioner. She said she wasn't willing to up the dosage because of the side effects. She also told me that the other doctor who originally prescribed it would probably not be willing to up the dosage either. However, she is booked up until late Sept.

We rarely go out because we don't have the money right now. We were able to drop the kids off at my parents' house the night before.

I think that sex is great fun when it is expected, and planned.

I think that your problem is not that it is expected, but you do not want to have it. Would make any difference if it were not "expected", and instead of expecting it at the end of a date, your husband were spontaneous about it? Would you be more turned on then? If so, I don't see why you haven't told him this already.

The problem might not the expectation, but that you are not in love, and do not want sex under any circumstances. Is that true?

Maybe I do but when I get the cold shoulder the next day, it makes me feel like I should have had sex with him just to make him happy regardless of whether I wanted to or not.

Yes, I would feel better about it if it were more spontaneous. It could also be that I am not in love with him as well.

That is the problem right there. You can't desire sex if you are not in love and you won't be in love unless you get 20-25 hours per week of UA time. The program doesn't work if you don't take that step.

So if you like spontaneous sex, how often are you initiating it?

So if he jumps you out of the blue, you will be okay with it and won't turn him down?

Yes.

This is your biggest problem.

Start going out on dates with your husband. It doesn't have to be anything expensive to be fun and enjoyable. Will you let him take you on dates 15 hours a week?

The dirty movies and novels are also affecting you in a negative way. We've mentioned the contrast effect a couple times already -- these novels are setting you up with expectations and causing your husband to look less appealing by comparison. He cannot compete.

And, if you were on the low end of testosterone, continue to use the cream. It could take some time and dating before it starts to work well.

I see that you are writing Dr. Harley. Great!
Be sure to mention the lack of UA, and the use of dirty novels and movies.

FC, You have already received lots of wonderful guidance on how to improve how you feel about your husband and about making love with him.

Others have wisely warned you against the use of dirty novels and movies and sex toys. They all create contrast effect.

You have also been told you and your H need a minimum of 15 hours a week out of the house without your children in order to maintain a romantic relationship. In order to build one, you will need more than 15 hours. Those 15 hours should be the best of your week, something you both look forward to.

I have some experience with doctors and the prescription for testosterone cream, so I'll share that with you. I had hoped a woman doctor would be more helpful, but instead, she had the attitude that the low testosterone and resulting lack of libido was normal for my age group (post menopausal.) She was reluctant to prescribe anything for me and when she finally did so, the prescription was extremely conservative so that after a few months of using the cream, my T count went from nearly nonexistent to very low end which had virtually no effect on my libido.

I had to research the topic and advocate for my own health and sexual needs. I finally was able to persuade her to prescribe me with a decent dose of testosterone cream, which has to be compounded, and finally the levels were what they should have been for a healthy female. I was very disheartened to hear a doctor tell me it's just something that happens and that I should put up with it.

Only irresponsible doses will have unwanted side effects. I've been taking a compounded T cream for over three years and have nothing but healthy and good side effects. No bulging muscles, no deepened voice, no masculinization. Just a bit more healthy interest in making love with my H as long as I feel in love with him.

But even with the testosterone cream to help increase physical desire, you need to feel bonded and safe and in love with your husband.

We did that for a long time. At least 6 months. We lived with my mother-in-law while our house was being built so she babysat for us. And we didn't have a house payment so we had plenty of money to go out. I don't feel like it made any difference at all to be honest. I was so worried about the expectation of sex at the end of the date that I rarely enjoyed it.

I can think of a few reasons why it wouldn't work. The first would be that you weren't doing a good job of meeting each other's intimate emotional needs and the second reason is because you didn't really get out for 20+ hours a week. If you were doing it right, you would be in love. But ever since you have been on this board, I have never known you to be in love.

It takes 20-25 hours to CREATE romantic love and 15 hours to maintain it. Most people pencil whip that exercise and never really do it. Then they complain that their marriage never improves.

Another obstacle would be the romance novels and the porn movies. I am really surprised anyone recommended that because it indicates a lack of understanding of the basis of female sexual desire.

I was also surprised because these were ob/gyns and they all three said the same thing!

Maybe I need to go into it with the dating mentality. If we were dating, what would we do?

If you were dating initially, wouldn't you flirt with your date?

Dr. Harley believes actions create the feelings, in my paraphrased verbiage, (I think it is Feelings Follow Actions). In another behavior oriented program I am involved in, one main mantra is "Fake It Till You Make It", which in your case would be more like pretending that you are getting to know each other better on each conversation and date. When is the last time you sat in a quiet place and focused only upon each others faces, eyes and words being spoken, tuning out all other distractions? Inquire what each of your near term and longer term goals are and look for the similarities in your desires and expand on those thoughts and dreams.

So, go ahead and BE in Dating Mode.

LTL

Testosterone is a natural aphrodisiac and is about the only thing that will trigger those feelings of physical sexual desire. As my testosterone levels began to drop, I noticed that I didn't have sexual dreams any more, nor did I experience any thrill at all while watching romantic movies. My sexual satisfaction began to be difficult to non-existent. Much of our sexual response hinges on the level of testosterone. Men have about 10 times as much as a woman, so sex is often on their minds.

When I have to return to a doctor for a renewal of my prescription (we just moved) I plan to see a male doctor instead of a female, in the hopes that a man would perhaps be a bit more understanding.

The talks I had with the female ob-gyn were strange. She told me that I was "lucky" and that she had a patient who suffered from terrible hot flashes who would gladly trade places with me. My reply was that a majority of marriages are not very happy or romantic and that it would make sense that most women in an unhappy marriage wouldn't care much about her lack of sex drive, since the last thing she'd want is to make love with her husband. I told her we had a wonderful marriage and I was unwilling to live the rest of my life with little to no libido and unsatisfying sex. It really surprised me that she, as a newlywed, wouldn't understand that.

Try and find a doctor who will be more helpful and understanding and will work with you in trying to find the right dosage of testosterone. This, along with making sure you and your H follow the Policy of UA, making sure your time together is enjoyable, should help turn this around.

I have not had good experiences with OB/GYN's having a lot of knowledge about sex or sexual arousal.

When I was preparing to have my first child, I read a lot about child birth and episiotomies. I read that some Dr's routinely did these because the healing was easier than a tear. But the number of women who complained about pain during sex or decreased sexual arousal was higher for those who had episiotomies during childbirth. It seemed that Dr's could not explain this, and really had no idea how the nerve ending and arousal mechanisms physically worked for women at all, much less how this would damage it. Nor was it stopping anyone from doing it. Just an example of how the medical field has somewhat overlooked female sexual needs over the years.

Personally, you are saying you may not be in love with your H. I think that is the culprit. I used to have LOADS of sexual arousal for my H, but when I fell out of love for him, EVEN THOUGH my #1 EN was and is SF and I still had tremendous sexual arousal mechanisms (and think about it many times a day), I still did not feel sexually aroused or excited about him, nor did I want to have sex with him. I am still working on that. I know it is not related to my ability to be aroused as much as my relationship with him specifically.

Getting the testosterone level balanced is a great start, but falling back in love is going to make the biggest difference.

We do often focus on the thought of 'what if I were on a date' (as in dating pre marriage). Would you prepare more for a date? Would you dress better? Would you be on your best behavior? Would you talk more about intimate topics than 'logistics'? How would you end the date? (I will even thank him for the date and give him a kiss, even if we are just going to walk into the house together anyway).

But, if you are dating, you are not ending the date in sex, so not sure that this process will help or hurt you...

I actually got an appt for Friday with the same doctor that originally prescribed the compound. Hopefully I can get her to increase my dosage

This has been my experience also. It's taken us 2+ years to fine tune our dates enough so that I actually FEEL like we are getting UA time. There were layers of distractions that we didn't even realize were distractions. Dates must be truly undivided attention in order for needs to be met.

I dislike for our phones to be on when we are out...if one of us gets a random text from someone, I just shut down. My H needs to look me in the eyes as we are talking. I need for him to be actively engaged in our convo...when he asks me a question about my thoughts, if I perceive it that he gives me just a random lip service reply (like something an acquaintance would respond with), then I shut down.

It took us ages to stop the hidden LB in our convo...I had to learn to stop assuming the way that he felt...and H had to learn to stop arguing with my perspectives.

My H wants to meet my need for IC, but we had to both work through how I like that need to be met. It took a lot of intense work (on my part to realize what I'd like and verbalize that for H, and on his part to try, try again until he met that need). When he meets my need for IC and Affection in a way that I like those needs met, SF is easy.

feuillecouleur, do YOU feel as if your husband is focusing only on you during UA time?

You basically described the whole field.

I know you were going to discuss with your doctor about testosterone and I thought you might think this is interesting.

Radio Clip on Female Viagra