New to this forum and have been married for almost 15 years. I have never cheated on my wife, nor do I want to cheat on her, so I need help in regards to a female coworker and discerning whether or not she has feelings for me and if I need to set up stronger boundaries between us. Not sure if it's important but she's also about 12 years younger than me.



I got a new job back in November and was hired with a cohort of about 10 other nurses. One of the nurses I got hired with seems to have taken an instant liking to me. I'm a keen observer of how people behave and their body language and almost immediately I noticed her looking at me and smiling whenever we'd make eye contact. She still does this almost a year later. When we are assigned to different areas or if either one of us if floating she'll actively come to find me and chat and remembers tiny (and what I consider insignificant) details of what I've mentioned to her. We'll joke around a lot and banter back and forth and I've noticed she doesn't behave this with any of the other guys on our unit. She'll talk to them, but none of the joking or banter. I don't actually seek her out while we're at work. I'll always say "hi" but I don't go out of the way to find her and chat, if that makes sense. When I mentioned to her that I'm married, she immediately began to text someone and looked visibly upset. Even before I was married, I never got too much female attention so I'm not sure if I'm just reading too much into this. For full disclosure, if I was single she's definitely someone I'd be interested in dating, but again, I'm not interested in cheating on my wife either physically, emotionally, or both.



So, am I reading too much into this situation or do I need to set some firm boundaries?

Most married men don't joke and banter with women at work. It sounds to me like you need better boundaries around women. They are not your friends and should be treated in an impersonal, business manner. That means all business and no personal discussions whatsoever. And certainly, you should never go to lunch with females unless it is in a group. Keep it strictly business. And you should tell your wife what is going on too.

I joke and banter with everyone (men and women), that's how I am and how I've always been and what drew my wife to me. She also actually knows exactly what's going on with this other woman. For whatever reason she doesn't seem particularly bothered by it.

So you already know where this can lead if that is how you drew your wife. That is where you should start. Start by creating stronger boundaries around women at work by stopping the joking and bantering. This is typically how affairs start. People aren't out looking for affairs, they just don't have solid boundaries and because of this, feelings ensue and then next they know, an affair starts.

That's a good thing that you have made your wife aware of the situation.

Curious as to why you think this is necessary? I mean you said that this is typically how affairs start, but that hasn't been my experience at all, neither with myself or with my friends. In the high stress environment I work in (emergency room), it's a pretty necessary coping mechanism we all have. Everyone jokes with each other. It's what we do, actually its what all nurses and doctors in our environment do. Pretty harmless in my experience.



The problem and what actually concerns me is her indifference to the situation. We have problems in our marriage, a lot of problems mainly from her upbringing (not abusive). Her parents basically had an arranged marriage, and even thought they get along fine, there's not much love so that's she grew up with. My coworker, of course, knows absolutely none of our problems.

Gotcha. But, it is how you attracted your wife and you can see it is attracting this woman. It seems you are acting the same way you acted when you were single and are giving off that vibe. I have worked in a mostly male culture, 80/20 male to female, in Fortune 500 companies for most of my career and I would be surprised to see a married man behaving like this at work. As you can see, it is not harmless. I would only ask that you keep an open mind and really consider your approach.

As far as affairs go, this is how affairs start, with an attraction that started due to inappropriate boundaries in the workplace. This has been the experience of Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders and it has been my experience after 18 years on this forum.


More reason for you to really have your guard up at work. The temptation is typically greater when there are unmet needs in marriage. Not that you would be out looking for an affair, most people DON'T, but when there are unmet needs at home, it makes the temptation greater to allow others to meet them.

Just so you know, she can learn to show love in a different way from her upbringing. We have many people who have been in this program who came from broken homes who have successful, romantic marriages. We can help you with that if you want help.

Very confused now. We had the same break time the other night and ended up spending the entire time chatting and laughing. Found out we have quite a bit in common (more than my wife and I do, unfortunately). Might be time for me to either file for divorce of find another job.

Why are you saying you need to file divorce?

Ok, I am seeing the problem now. You are not serious about being married. You are still open for business. It might be time to establish serious boundaries and act like a married person if you are serious about being married. But it doesn't sound to me like you are serious at all.

And what are you confused about? You can see happening exactly what I described in my previous post about affairs starting at work when people have poor boundaries. We told you this would happen and it is happening. So what is the confusion?

As I mentioned previously, my wife and I haven't had the best marriage due to her distance and lack of intimacy for the past few years. Last night I told her what happened and asked her if she wanted to pursue marriage counseling. She said she wasn't upset and had no desire to pursue marriage counseling thinking our marriage had no problems (even though I've communicated this with her). This was pretty much the final straw in our marriage as I'm tired of living like roommates. After speaking with my brother, who was in a similar situation, I've pretty much decided to file for divorce. Thankfully we've been married less than ten years, so in our state she's only entitled to alimony for half the length of the marriage so I won't take much of a hit financially including the house going back into my ownership (as it was mine long before we married through an inheritance).

In your first post, didn't you state that you'd been married for almost 15 years? Now it's suddenly less than 10 years?

Something seems fishy here.

Sorry for the confusion. Together for 15, actually legally married for less than 10 (10 year anniversary is in January).

Do you and your wife have children together? If so, they would be much better off if you and your wife can create a great marriage together. It sounds like you had/have a somewhat mediocre marriage but never worked on it to make it better and now have fallen in love with someone else. If you had not fallen in love with your coworker, you might be more interested in creating a great marriage.

No kids, thankfully. I'm not really interested in trying anymore. I've tried enough in the past and checked out a long time ago. It comes to a certain point where being in a sexless/loveless marriage just isn't worth the effort anymore and we're at that point now. Neither of us is really interested in saving it anymore. And I'm okay with that. My brother was in a similar situation a few years ago and for him divorcing was the best decision he could have ever made. I'm also not in love with my coworker, she's just a cool girl.

What are you going to change in your next marriage so you don't copy the result of this one? The problems you have now are likely to follow you in your next relationship.

Right now, remarriage is the furthest thing from my mind. I'm still trying to figure out the steps going forward for this one.

In terms of your question, I'm going to pick a partner that's better for me and not make the mistakes I made with this one. For example, my wife was a virgin when we married. We had very very little sexual chemistry and she's just not interested in sex at all. We also should have cohabited prior to marriage and gone to couples counseling prior to marriage to ensure we have an agreement on what we thought marriage should be. The problems in our marriage are largely due to her indifference toward affection, sex, and love in general. I always made her a priority, prioritized her needs (helping around the house, fulfilling her love language which was gift giving, etc...). She rarely prioritized mine, choosing to spend time with her family and friends quite often rather than me and rarely fulfilling my love language (physical gestures). The last time we had sex was 9 months ago, prior to that was 5 months. This is completely unacceptable in a marriage. I told her as much and that it needed to change. She didn't care and said that sex wasn't a priority for her. Fair enough, but it is for me. I was pretty young and lacking self-confidence/knowing who I was when we got together. I settled when I married her. I grew as a person, left a career I hated, went back to school and have a career I love. She is still the same person she was when we were in our early 20s. She's never grown, has no ambition. So I guess, to answer your question, if and when I do get married, I'll make sure whoever that is is truly right for me with the same outlook, ambitions, and drive that I have.

So to recap...you've started an emotional affair with a co-worker, and yet you've got a good handle on what made the marriage you're wanting to end not work so well. Got it. Also co-habitation generally leads to higher rates of divorce, lots of data shows that.

Been where you are, sexless marriage. Women don't work the way you seem to think they do. My current wife was a virgin when we were married and we have sex at least 2 or 3 times a week. Ex-wife was not anywhere close to a virgin when we were married, we had sex before we were married, but she developed a sexual aversion early in our marriage and that sure changed quick. I thought we had "great" sexual chemistry when we dated, but that turned out to be a poor predictor of the future because it didn't tell me anything about why she was sexually interested in me.

What's the difference? During/after my divorce I read the books promoted on this site and found out what makes women interested in sex. Are you naturally interested in things like writing love notes, buying flowers/gifts, planning good dates and carving serious time out of your schedule to talk to your partner for the rest of your life? Because I've never met a man who was interested in those things in the way he's interested in sex. But to a lot of women, those things are as satisfying for them as sex is for men. And men stop doing those things after dating/engagement ends and the risk of their partner leaving them disappears. This makes women less interested in sex. IF you don't get that, every relationship you try will end up where you are now. I know only because I've seen your story get posted here....like a few thousand times over the years by other men making the same mistakes.

I have a brother and sister in law who work in medicine. Level with me...how much time do you spend at home in a given week? # of hours? Of that amount of time...how many hours in a given week do you spend with your wife?

No, you're assertion is incorrect. Having a friendship with someone of the opposite sex is NOT an emotional affair. I have plenty of female friends and my wife has plenty of male friends. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Quite a few "modern" women work the way I think they do. I've seen friends and family and how their wives and girlfriends behave and talk. In my experience your wife is one of there rare "wait until marriage" women who actually enjoy sex. Many come from repressive families who have a negative view of sex.


"Naturally" interested? No, but I used to do them for my wife for a few years. Then it was never reciprocated which caused the downward spiral in our marriage. Her needs were met, mine were not and she had no interest in addressing these problems. At a certain point, the efforts go unnoticed, so they stop. That's what happened in my case with my soon-to-be-ex-wife.



I spend quite a bit of time at home. I work 3 days a week (12 hour shifts). Sometimes I pick up overtime, sometimes I don't. I used to want to spend a lot of time with my wife but it was never really enjoyable. All she ever wanted to do was watch TV or go shopping, never wanted to engage in activities I enjoyed. Now I don't. I go out with my brother, friends, etc....She's always invited but never wants to come. At the end of the day, I'm starting to realize we never should have married. I settled when I married her as I lacked the self-confidence I have now and I was pretty weak back then. That's no longer the case. My family warned me about this years ago, I only wish I'd had the foresight to listen. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.

I have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow. As far as I can tell with the laws in my state, since this marriage is less than 10 years old, the divorce will be simple and straight forward. The future is exciting and looking very bright for me. :-)

Over 80% of affairs (according to multiple studies) start in the workplace. So if a long and successful marriage is your goal, it's a terrible idea to develop close friendships with people of the opposite sex at your workplace. You and your wife might think it's fine, but you've fallen out of love with her, and I'd bet she's fallen out of love with you, which is why you're not getting as much sex as you'd like. So it's not even working for you.

On no emotional affair....get real, dude! You come here posting at the outset that you think this co-worker has a crush on you, that she gives you special attention. You think maybe you need better boundaries. You then post that after a long night talking alone with her, you realize that your marriage sucks and you have more in common with this woman than your wife. You even state "I should get a divorce or get another job". Why is the "other job" option even relevant if you don't have feelings for this woman, like your marriage would survive if you get away from your affair partner? You think she's in love with you, you say you'd date her if you were single, and now you want out of your marriage. You're not fooling any of us, at least be honest with yourself.

On waiting till marriage to have sex...nice strawman argument. I waited the second time around (and sex is my top emotional need!) in part because I realized becoming sexually active compromised my ability to judge my ex-wife when we were dating. Many women who wait feel the same way. People routinely destroy their careers, families and lives to satisfy their sexual appetites, it's a powerful drug. What's much more important to marriage success is someone's willingness to meet your needs and to hold you accountable for meeting theirs with radical honesty. If you need a lot of sex and the survival of the marriage is you/your partner's top priority, you'll figure out how to get there in a way where both people are happy. "Not having enough sex" is what almost every husband's marriage looks like before it ends, regardless of how much sex they had before they were married. Go look at other threads on here if you don't believe me.

How are you certain that your wife's needs were met? That's not something you can answer for her. You ought to both fill out an Emotional Needs questionnaire ( https://www.marriagebuilders.com/emotional-needs-questionnaire.htm ) and see how closely your perception matches her reality. You can see the dependency I illustrated between her needs and sex....just like you doing all of the romance stuff, if her needs weren't actually met, she's not going to want to give you sex either. On the enjoying time together...it sounds like you guys need to find some new recreational companionship activities you both enjoy so that you enjoy your time together. It doesn't just "happen" in marriage, it takes work. Most couples find out after they are married that their interests aren't as similar as they thought, Dr. Harley talks at length about that. But it's no surprise that you aren't getting laid when you spend no time with her. Why in the world should she give that to you under these circumstances?

If you want a divorce...there's nothing stopping you. I filed first in my case, so I understand the process. But if you want your 10 years of life down the drain to count for something, you shouldn't settle for easy answers about why this happened. This first divorce will put you in a much higher risk bracket for a second divorce. First marriages have about a 50/50 chance, second marriages end in divorce 70-80% of the time. You're going to need all the help you can get unless you never want to remarry, and specifically you need to figure out what marriage-destroying habits you brought to the table in this first one. We've pointed out a few, your wife could help you figure out the others, if you're brave enough to face the criticism. Dr. Harley's books are another great resource in that vein. But if you don't figure out what you can improve on, you have no assurance you won't be here in another 10 years. Every divorcee thinks their ex was the problem.

That's all well and good, but as I've said, it's not an affair no matter how much you really really want it be. I have plenty of very close friends who are female, that's all they are. If I wanted them to be more, they would have been more. I really don't understand this backwards thinking that you have, but whatever. You're entitled to your own opinions (but not your own facts, and the fact of the matter is that having close friendships doesn't equal an affair).


Meh, you don't have to believe me. I know what's going on, I've posted what's going on. You choose to ignore the truth, again nothing I can do to change your opinion even if it's a flat out false. Whether you chose to believe it or not is your choice. Stop projecting your won faults onto others though, dude.


You use the term "strawman argument" without knowing what it is. Waiting until marriage is playing with fire. People who wait until marriage usually have a very poor view of sex and carry that into their marriage. It's not the 1950s anymore, bud, waiting until marriage is a huge mistake, especially since most women view their sexuality as equal to men and desire it just as much as men do.


I know my marriage and what I've done compared to what she's done. Can't really condense 9 years of marriage into a few posts online. You chose not to believe me, again that's your problem, not mine. Stop projecting, pal.


I met with a few lawyers last week and the divorce is in process. She confirmed with me that this will be straightforward since our state considers it a short term property. Since I owned the house free and clear prior to the marriage, she's not entitled to it or even half the value of it. She gets half the savings and since our income is basically the same, she will likely not get any alimony (even if she does it will amount to only a few hundred a month and only for half the length of the marriage).

Sunday night I told her that I had filed. She had no reaction at all just said something like "that's probably for the best." Right now we're just figuring out the logistics of how to get her moved out. She's staying with her parents, who live close, and slowly getting her stuff moved out. I wish I could say I'm upset, but mostly I'm just numb at the fact I wasted so much time in this marriage.

Axslinger wrote a very accurate analysis of your situation and I would strongly encourage you to pay attention to it. You don't have any understanding of how affairs start or how marriages work and will carry these bad habits into your next relationship. Affairs start as opposite sex friendships, which you already know. Your romantic relationship with your own wife started the same way. You are romantically interested in this coworker and suddenly decided to get divorced, which is obviously related. Like Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and specialist in infidelity said: here

I would point out that you are the least objective person on this thread. You, a person with a wrecked marriage, are lecturing someone with a happy marriage. Do you see how backwards that is? That is like the fat person lecturing the skinny person about diet habits.

You are getting great feedback from axslinger and I would encourage you to put aside your own FAILED ideas about marriage and keep an open mind. You are making critical mistakes.

Wife was served at work on Wednesday and signed the papers straight away. She finished moving her stuff out of my house last night. I'm not sad, I'm not happy. I just feel relieved that this part of my life is over. I never realized that for years when I'd come home from work I had a feeling of dread at interacting with her. She never really talked much about anything other than shopping and her TV shows, never really gave me any sort of intellectual stimulation and I had to seek that from friends. I haven't really talked to her much in the past two weeks and since our divorce is going to be relatively simple, I doubt we're going to have much interaction other than how to split assets, etc... My brother wanted to set me up on a date with one of his friends but I declined. I'm not quite ready to go there yet.

Have a meeting set up a mediator next week. Our division of assets should be relatively simple as the house is in my name and was in the pre-nup (as well as my retirement accounts) she signed prior to marriage. According to my lawyer, she's entitled to alimony for about four-and-a-half years and then we're done. After everything is said and done, we just need to wait six months and the marriage will be dissolved. Overall it's been a pretty simple process.

Interestingly, she texted me out of the blue a few nights ago to ask how I would feel if she went out on a date. I basically replied that we are in the process of divorcing and in my eyes we're each single, she's free to date whoever she wants. Me on the other hand, I'm not ready to go there yet. Haven't even told any of my coworkers I'm divorcing yet. I may do it this weekend when we're all getting together at my house for a party.

You haven't even told the coworker that has a crush on you?

Nope. She's coming to the party, so if I do decided to tell people, she'll find out with everyone else.

You misunderstood my earlier point about her emotional needs if you think I'm projecting anything. The framework this marriage program is built upon says that you CANNOT answer for your wife the question of how well her needs were met. It would be like conducting your own performance evaluation at work. If you don't understand that, you don't understand the system we use here. It's not a matter of opinion.

Also, dating during the divorce process is adultery. When the divorce is finalized, sure go for it. But until then, you are still married to your wife. That is also part of the program here and also not a matter of opinion.

You have no interest in taking advice (even though you came here seeking it) if it doesn't agree with you, and I would predict that is going to make any marriage a difficult proposition for you until that attitude changes. Your poor wife probably does not even understand what is happening, which is why she wants to date you. That is a huge indicator of interest that you could work with if you had any real interest in saving your marriage.

AviationNut1980, did you have a question about the Marriage Builders program? It doesn't appear you are here to seek solutions, but to blog about your own plan. The purpose of this forum is to help posters find solutions using MB concepts, it is not a blogging platform. Unless you have a question related to Marriage Builders, we will lock this thread. Thank you.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. I don't view it as adultery because there is zero chance at reconciliation.

The party just ended and everyone had a blast. When people started asking about where my wife was, I just told that we're in the process of divorcing and that it'll be finalized in a few months.

The coworker ended up hanging around me most of the day and stayed a little later than everyone else. Nothing happened but we did just sit around and chat about stuff. Have a lunch set up for next week to hang out. I think we're both looking forward to i.