Why does everyone pretend it gets better? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Maybe it is because my H and I have been together my entire adult life, but he moved out over year ago, and filed for divorce a year ago next month, and it has not gotten easier at all, in any way. Perhaps the pain is less sharp than it was for the first week or two after he left, but it has been replaced with something far worse - a pain that doesn't get better, that is always there. People talk of having good and bad days - sometimes I have good minutes, maybe even an hour, though not often. It is still the first thing I think about when I wake up, and the last thing before I go to sleep. I still dream that he has come back, at least once or twice a week. I am fully functional - I go to work, take care of the kids, take them places, etc - but I am just going through the motions, motions that I will have to continue to go through for the next 18 years or so, until the youngest has finished college. Everything I have always believed has been proven wrong. Honesty, commitment, trustworthiness - these values do not bring you happiness or even contentment - but ignoring them certainly does. No one can be trusted. You can know someone for a quarter of a century, only to find out that they either have been hiding their true personality all that time, or there is no such thing as a true personality, since it can change overnight. You can't count on anything. I can't even count on myself to be able to tell a good person from an evil one.

Nellie,Maybe because there is so much indecision in your life that things aren't looking better.You said its been a year since he filed. What's the hold up on his part? What's the hold up on yours ?I've read your posts and know the pain you've suffered. That's why I believe that you should file for the divorce. You need to find an end to this chapter of your life.My decision to file for the divorce was the hardest thing I ever did. But I could not take any more hurt. When my x first talked about divorce, I swore she would have to be the one to file. After all the pain and hurt she caused me, I decided I no longer cared who filed, I just wanted out so I could start my life again and get it off hold, hoping she would come back to her senses, bbut she gave no signs of that happening and still hasn't till this day.I was doing real well the past few months prior to and immediately after the divorce. But the last 2-3 weeks have been tough. It started with running into the om a couple times 3 weeks ago, then the crap my x is pulling with the kids, the resentment I'm feeling because x is on vacation and I'm taking vacation days to stay with my sick son. Also the woman I met and was interested in doesn't seem as interested in pursuing a relationship as I am/was. I'm not sure where I satnd in that respect now. I think I was trying too hard.Are you going to counseling? This may help you straighten out what you want to do with your life.Also try the book, "Rebuilding After the Relationship Ends" by Dr Bruce Fisher. It deals with basically eliminating the emotional we now carry and learning to heal.Please take care of your self.God BlessBob------------------ "You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!" Mick Jagger

Bob,First you have to wait six months for a contested divorce. Apparently his lawyer didn't realize you had to take a parenting course until after the six months was up (the lawyer has said that he doesn't handle many divorces - I think he is a friend or relative of the OW). His lawyer took 3 months to come up with the first draft of a separation agreement. During this time, my H stopped paying child support until, he said, the separation agreement was signed. Apparently, according to his lawyer, my H was in possession of the draft separation agreement at the time, and had not returned it to the lawyer, yet somehow he was upset with me that it had not yet been signed. Now the lawyers are going back and forth with the separation agreement, at typical lawyer speed. This is not just a chapter of my life. The book of my life has been completely rewritten. All good memories are forever tainted. Every word he has ever said to me is subject to reinterpretation, in light of his statement that he hasn't been truthful for a long time, and that if we had faced our problems (whatever the H*** they were) we would have divorced many children ago. I don't think indecision has anything to do with it. The only thing I can imagine that would be worse than being in limbo is being divorced. I am sure it is obvious to the kids that the values my H and I tried to instill into them were meaningless. Shortly after he left, my H said that our values and goals were different. I can't dispute that his values are certainly different now. I asked him once what his goals were for the kids, and he came up with one primary goal - that they would realize they could do anything they wanted to. Although he was probably talking primarily about career goals, that pretty much sums up his new philosophy. Nothing about instilling values like responsibility, or any thing else that used to be important to him. What is the point, when what I have to look forward to is trying to co-parent with a man whose stated child-rearing goal is to make them into selfish hedonists.

{{{{Nellie1}}}}}I too keep have dreams like H is still here. I miss him terribly and worry about him constantly. I'm sick of people telling me it will get better. The only thing I know for sure is that it will be different. Keep your head up as much as you can and take care of yourself.

Nellie,I understand, my x would never let our kids watch anything dealing with witchcraft. Now she rents them R rated movies, and allows them to watch those thinly disguised porno shows on the Fox network. I wonder about my kids morals too. Their mother while married was living with a married man. Now their unmarried mother is still living with a married man. I don't think he has the stones to divorce his w as she is his safety net.I guess my problem is that I look at the last year or two of my marriage and allow it to destroy the 14+ prior years and for that reason I don't look back.Thats why I look to the future and wonder what it can be.BOB

Nellie,A quetion. Given that you are hurting so very much by all the crap your His dishing out, then why is divorce worse than limbo?I CHOSE divorce. I filed. My H told me several times he was going to file and never did even see a lawyer. I kept thinking, like Bob, that he would have to be the one to file. Then one day I woke up and took control of my life and my destiny, again. I decided: Hey, what do I want out of life....I want a guy who will love me back as much as I love him, and treat me as good as I will treat him. The reality is that my H just isn't that guy at this point in our lives. He can't or won't give me any love nor treat me well. So, is he what I really want or need? NO. These past 14 months of the continued affair and the open flaunting he has been doing for months now, just killed off the remaining love I had for him. So, I decided my life will be immensely more happy without him in it, and I can recover faster without prolonging the process.As soon as I decided and acted on filing, I started to feel relief and happiness. I am controlling things now. He is still trying to manipulate from the sidelines, but it isn't getting him anywhere. I honestly believe that if I hadn't filed...in 5 years, I'd be in the same boat - still being a wife without a H.I guess from this point, you need to try to minimize the impact of your H's affair as much as possible in your life. I don't exactly know how, but try to find ways to if at all possible. I think it DOES get better...slowly and with more time. It is particularly hard for you because there is no direction of closure...the prolonged divorce, for example. Also, your H continues to be particularly cruel, which definitely delays the recovery process.Then, there is the after effect we will all have to deal with. Bob, the funky relationship that didn't pan out is just one of the after effects. I personally am having this problem: I am for the most part feeling pretty balanced, but the slightest little thing out of the norm can set me into a tailspin emotionally. For instance, I got upset when I thought the papers weren't going to be filed on the date I was expecting them to. Now, they did eventually, but I broke down and cried at work becuase I thought they were going to be delayed by H not being around to be served.Well, I am on the road to recovery and yet I still know that I am far from being recovered. But, making the positive steps forward is good. I am happy 95% of the time. I rarely think of my H much at all. Only in terms of the divorce and getting his stuff out of the house. I am feeling some resentments - they come and go. I am thinking this is part of the feeling them and releasing them process...so it is good.Keep working on you, Nellie. Your H will try to beat you down to make himself feel better about his choices and actions. No matter what he does or doesn't do, just remember that the bad choices were his and if he suffers any, it will be because of his choices alone.Take care...Desiree------------------ "Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."Sir Humphry Davy

Nellie,I was in tons of pain for about 3 years after my first divorce due to infidelity. I can't recover that time and that is a sad thing. But, I am not pretending in saying it does get better, actually it gets GREAT. You'll get more and more good minutes and one day it will will be 2:00 in the afternoon and you'll realize you didn't wake up with it. You'll probably blast me for these next things but I just would like you to think about them for a moment.Do not speak to the man(H) unless spoken to, and then keep it brief and to the point. Let's face it, he's a jerk and does not deserve to be treated with any respect AT ALL.Give up the idea, the word, the fantasy "co-partent". They are YOUR kids now, he left them in every sense of the word. Drop the idea that these kids are in any way, any connection between you two in your marital relationship.Break the damn rules Nellie, your H has broken them all and does just fine. There is no rule and no court that can say you have to involve him in anything. If he doesn't like that let him take you to court for every stupid thing he wants. That will wear him and his OW out for sure.Please, stop lookiing at your future in "kid years". Where is Nellie in this ?My parents divorced when I was 18 and my youngest sister was 12.(22 years married, four children) Maybe we're all a bunch of dumb blondes but we did not learn any grand, good or bad lessons. It was my parents marriage NOT mine. I was NEVER involved in the intimate aspects of my parents marriage.Both of my parents went through a period of suffering during the divorce but they both did eventually heal and have productive, happy lives now.My parents DO NOT live for myself and my sisters. I would not want them to. It would be sad and fill me with guilt to think that all they are is "parents". I wouldn't want anyone to give up themselves or life for me.This has been really nasty for you I know. I have been married twice to infidels. If my current H is an infidel I don't know it yet. There is nothing I can do about that. If he should become an infidel where will we be? Will I be 7 months pregnant? Will we have just bought our dream home? Will I have three kids? If there is one thing I have learned at MB these infidels don't give a rat's butt about anything like that. There was never a "right time" for your H do this most despicable thing.He says really nasty, crappy, BS to you. Now close those ears to that! When you stop reacting for real to his crap nothing he says will matter. Hang in there Nellie, you'll make it to happiness again. It just takes time and taking care of JUST YOU at times.

Nellie,Everything that has been said is good advise. It is time to take control of your life and stop having any expectation at all from your STBX h. He is an alien and you should accept that. I too had to file, because my h would have never have done it. I waited and waited for him to figure it out. It has been 2 year and he is still seeing the OW. I filed last March and am still not divorced because he is dragging dragging his feet. I just finally had enough and yes I was in pain just like you. I would literally embrace myself and my loneliness every night for months and months. I also started changing my life, working out, playing more tennis, getting out socially with other divorced people. I stopped looking for a Mr right I was not interested in that one bit. I was exploring my new life and redeveloping the relationship I had with my children. Letting them know that I needed my own space sometimes and that I would be ok when I was without them. You need to let go of your anger sweetie. It is only eating at you and empowering you and making you so very very bitter. Yes its ok to get angry but then move on and don't stay trapped in that phase. Learn to push through it and be above it. Believe me it freaked my x out when I let it all go. He still doesn't get the new me. The funny thing is that I am happy now. I am in a committed relationship with a kind man. I have no expectations about this relationship either. If it works great if it doesn't, it just wasn't meant to be. I can't control anybody but myself. I treat him with respect and I show my affection for him openly. If there is something not right in our relationship, I expect him to be honest and open and I am also. Anyway, I think it is time to stop talking or even seeing your x. Make your transfers quick and with no confrontations. Yes he is your childrens father, but he is going to make his own mistakes and you cant fix them for him. Let him go, he doesn't deserve so much of your mind energy, he is sucking you dry. Hope I haven't offended in any way. I just know how that pain, bitterness and loneliness can envelope you and you just sit there numb. Take careGerri

Desiree,Your too cool!Eric32

Nellie, One of the worst things we can do is let the other person control our thinking and our lives. We CANNOT control how another person acts, no matter how much we want to. We have to do what is right for us...When we separated ths e last time, Peter, my X was to have the kids every other weekend. Most of the time, something would come up and he would not take them. Sometime I didn't even know until the last minute, even though he had known for several weeks. I wanted him to be an attentive dad. I wanted him to be the kind of Dad I wanted him to be. Then I woke up........ I cannot make him be what I feel my kids need. He is what he is. Mine are 16 and 14....they are figuring this out for themselves. Now when he does want them, they are often busy and don't want to go. And I don't make them. It bothers him now....when he trys to talk to me about it, I tell him to talk to them. He and they must deal with their own relationship. And I must let go....------------------ Susan

I don't think it will ever be[b]better[b]just bareable.Different! Best for me is being together. That is not going to happen so we must settle for bareable... Not a very cheerful day for me...

The book Bob suggested is great! I am reading it too! I would definitely suggest it to anybody on this side of the board.Nellie, hang in there! I do those things too! It is getting better for me though. I have moments when I feel worthless and unlovable and moments when I am glad to be "almost" rid of him. RWD, I can't WAIT to be where you are! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Studentwife, ditto to the dreams. They almost feel too real sometimes.Desiree, YOU GO GIRL! InShock, I totally agree with you! Limerick, I envy you! Hopefully I will get to where you are at soon!Eric, you make me LOL! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Sue, the control thing is what is the worst part of this. I guess we have to just let go! Easier said then done though huh?Tyra, sorry about your bad day! Can we help?TB

studentwife,I know people are trying to be encouraging when they say it will get better, but I think that false hope is worse than none at all.Bob,I know that the first 23-24 or so years of our relationship my H was not the same person as he has been recently. I will never accept that that was fantasy and the way he acts now is reality. Desiree,Because marriage is forever, divorce is wrong, I still love my "real" husband and always will, and I do not believe that our differences are irreconcilable. I agree with Gary Chapman that the only irreconcilable difference is that I want to stay married to him and he doesn't. I was told by a lawyer that in our state it is rare for divorces where children are involved to take less than a year. Inshock,This is not just about the destruction of our marriage; it is about the destruction of our family. There are two types of family structures. There are families whose primary relationships and activities are outside the family, and families whose primary relationships and activities are within the family. Our family has always been of the second type. Everything we have done has reflected that-having a large family, homeschooling, family farming, etc. There was an article in Sunday's paper in which the author John Rosemond was quoted as saying, "By the time a child was 4 years old, the typical parent of 50 years ago had put that child to work in the family and was teaching that child obligation, a service ethic, and to be aware that he was not an independent operator but part of a social grouping." That philosophy more or less describes how I feel children should be raised, although four years old is a bit young. The externally-oriented family structure may well work for some people, but it is not what I want for my family, and it was not what my H, by all appearances, used to want. I don't think you can compare the effects of a divorce on an 18 year old with the effects on a 3 year old. I don't know why your parents divorced, but my H has made no secret of the fact that there is another woman (although of course he claims it has nothing to do with her, like all infidels do). He introduced the kids to her six weeks after he left. A month of so later, he let our little children (9 & 6) know that he was sleeping in her bed. He admitted to our 18 year old that he had found her through a personal ad. What more details could he possibly have given them? The 16 year old figured out that he was having an affair the moment he left. Being a mother is not the only role I have in life, but it is certainly the most important. A year or two ago I bet my H would have said the same thing about being a father. I had a discussion about this with a mother of 8 that I met at my daughter's college. She and I agreed that some people have children as a part of their life, albeit an important part of course, but when you decide to have a large family, RAISING CHILDREN IS YOUR LIFE. It is a choice my H and I made, and it is a valid choice. I will have at least one child at home/in college for nearly 40 years of my life. I do not view it as giving up myself or my life for them - it is what I have chosen to do with my life. But raising the children as part of a two parent family, having them see the importance of a father's role, and having them see their parents as honest, commited role models is critically important.Gerri,What I am feeling is not so much anger, although of course I get angry sometimes at the things my H does, but overwhelming sadness. I realize that many people only do start to get over the pain when they find another relationship. I can't imagine going into another relationship with no expectations - the last thing I would want to do is bring a new person into my kids lives (or mine, for that matter) who might also leave them. Far better not to bring anyone in at all.sue,I may not be able to make him be what the kids need in a father, but I will certainly do everything I can to encourage it. Look at Distressed - when she was in Plan B, he H had little or nothing to do with their younger child, but since she returned to Plan A, they now have a relationship. Whether or not Plan A is best for Distressed, it is undeniably best for her daughter. I do not think that it is entirely accurate to say you have no control over another person's actions. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited March 30, 2000).]

Tyra,Unfortunately, the thought of going through the rest of my life feeling as if life is "bearable" is horrible. Yet I know that this is the best I can expect. Teddy Bear,Having six children depending on me keeps me from feeling worthless, but I certainly have never felt anything approaching "glad to be rid of him". I don't want to be rid of him. I want my old H back.

Nellie,It is not that I have no expectation it is that I am not ready for much more than we have. I don't want to jump into marriage again. He is interested in getting married, because he never has been married and would love children. I am older than him (only 4 years)and think that I would pursue adoption if I had any children. Luckily he is ok with this. I have had diabetes for 31 years and another child is a huge risk to my health.About my expectations, I have learned to lower them since my breakup, because I was doing my ex-h a disservice by having such high expectations about our relationship, I wasn't being realistic and accepting. I have learned that some battles need to be fought and are important, and other just arent'. I think that has been the secret to my happiness and success. If you lower your expectations a tad, then you won't always be disappointed. Not that I don't hold values, I will not be in a relationship with another infidel. I am strong on this issue. I hope this helps you understand my position. GP

Thanks for wanting to help. Just kind of haveing a pitty party with myself today.( or at least for the moment) Once son gets home from school, I usually pull myself out of it. Spring break starts tomorrow so, I'll be busy for the next 3 weeks. Of course we go to court on the 10th if nothing is settled. So wonderful spring break!!! I hate doing this alone. Being alone, sleeping alone, eating alone. If I'd wanted to live a life alone I would NEVER have gotten married. I love the companiship of a man. Sorry, not just any man, my H. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Can't even imagine being with anyone else. The only face I see is his. Maybe this is withdrawl for me.

I think we all want our old H's or W's back! I know I do! I just haven't seen that person in a while.I'm sorry about your situation. I can't even imagine what you are going through. It is hard enough with just one child.Are you attending counseling or anything?

TB I have gone to counseling, Like I said before just a pitty party for myself. Now I'm better. We have 3 children. Two are older and on their own. Only our youngest is still at home. I usually have a very good outlook on my life just kinda down in the dumps, I know that will pass. I have much to be thankful for, lovely children, good support network. cutest grandson (I'm bias), a roof over my head, food to eat. Of course we all seem to want what we don't have. Right now that is my H. In time I'll get over it. I'm a survivor and will be ok. Just need to vent now and then. Thanks for listening. This site has helped me discover what WE did wrong in the past months. I just wish my H. would have come here to help him see all is not lost. Past events will not be forgotten, but can be forgiven. That is what makes me sad. I believe all of this could be worked out if he had given it a chance. Maybe someday....God only knows. Someone told me "God's time is not neccesarily your time." So I must wait. Maybe today or tomorrow, or next year, or maybe not even in this life time. I know we will be together... Have a nice day. Gotta get ready to go to sons' ballgame and have some fun. Tyra

Nellie: I just dropped over here to see how you are doing. Since I'm not facing divorce, these guys can give you much better advice than I can, but I DO care. After reading your replies to everyone, I can't help butting in...I do understand that this is about the breakup of a family (not just a marriage). I commend you for the vision you had for your family, and am so sorry that has been smashed. I understand that you are grieving the loss for your kids as well as for yourself. But, I DO think it will eventually progress from "horrible" to "barable" to "good, if not what you originally wanted". Have you ever read the essay about having a handicapped child, that compares it to planning for months (or years even) to a trip to France...but you get off the plane and you aren't there, you are in Holland. It takes a while to adjust and to see that there are good things in Holland too. It is not wheren you wanted to go. You had no choice in getting there. You'll always wish you could've made it to France. But, after the pain and regret and anger clears, you start to notice good things about where you HAVE landed.I truly believe you will get to that point...but, it does take a while. If your H had died, it would take several years...and in a way he has died, and with him, the plan you had for your life has been altered drastically. We have one woman at our church with 5 natural-born kids and 3 adopted children (all adopted as hard-to-place foster kids she fell in love with). They range in each from 4 to college). I know she never planned on being a single parent. But, she does a great job (never as good as she wants, I know, as time and energy are stretched). And, her kids are happy. The are learning wonderful values. They are loved by her, and by each other. They are learning a lot about responsibility, and commitment to family.Nellie, I do not want to seem as if I'm telling you "everything is OK"...obviously, it is not. And, you deserve to be able to grieve over it all, ALL the loss this entails for you and the kids. But, you will make a good life, and teach your kids well. Don;t feel hopeless (and if you cannot regain some sense of hope after an appropriate grieving period, consider whether depression could be involved...it sometimes arises a year or two down the road, in the wake of the more active grief...I learned this when I couldn't regain a sense of "life" several years after the loss of my second child).Anyway, I trust I haven;t offended you...forgive me for butting in. Your posts just touched me...Hugs-- Kathi

Limerick,I can certainly understand why you would not be ready for marriage again. Kathi,No, you haven't offended me in the least. I appreciate your encouragement. In many ways, it would be easier if my H had died. At least then we would be able to hold onto the fond memories we had. One of two things happened. Either I wasted 25 years living with someone who hated me while pretending that he loved me, or his personality changed virtually overnight. Either one of those alternatives has completed destroyed everything I ever believed. To use the trip to France analogy, it is more like landing in Bosnia instead. I realize that things could be worse. I am sure there is nothing worse than the loss of a child. Six months before my H's affair started, my sister's son was murdered (and yes, I do think this was partially responsible for my H's depression and subsequent affair). My sister is completely functional, is active and busy, but it is quite obvious that if she found out she was going to die tomorrow, she wouldn't care.

I don't understand the personality change in them either.How can a man go from saying one month "he will do anything to save our marriage as long as I don't leave him"...to "I'm not in love with you anymore"...the next month.They are completely irrational. It doesn't make sense. Especially in your case.

Dear Nellie -- It will get better!!!I struggle with many of the same things you have struggled with. Who is this man? Was he there all along and I was just completely deceived? Or did he really change overnight? One of these days you will turn a corner, mentally and emotionally, and you will start to heal. There's no way to rush it, however. It will happen when you are ready. And then things will slowly get better. I thought I would love my H forever. I would have taken him back in an instant. But when the love bank runs dry, its DRY. Yes, it still hurts. And I miss him so very, very much. But I miss the man I thought I knew. I no longer want the man that now inhabits his body. I grieve for my marriage and my family, but I don't want him back. I can no longer imagine being happy with him. I'm rediscovering myself in so many ways. I've been so caught up in being wife/mother that I forgot about me. I'm enjoying work, making new friends, reconnecting with church, and mostly enjoying my children very much. It will get better!!!! I'm not pretending! I remember every tear I shed over the past 15 months, and it really, really is better!

Nellie,Your life will never be the one you had worked at for so long and planned so realistically and it is when one realizes that this can no longer be due to the actions of the one who we loved with all our heart, that it all seems so hopeless.I was taught many things, but the one that helped me the most (so far) was the fact that I should not focus all my energy on who my H had become (and I know we all want to know the hows and whys of all this) but focus on how I could get through this as best I could for my children and myself.I do continue to try to understand, but the difference for me is that I am no longer obsessed and for me that makes life better.I had to accept that this is who he is now and deal with this in a way that made sense for me. My values have not changed. I am still the same mother to my 4 children, but I have learnt how to focus on the postives about me and not dwell on the negatives of my situation, for if I did, I would be consumed by my anger at H...and I lost too much weight as it is and cannot afford to lose any more!It is so hard to have all the feelings for a partner who shared a life's vision of shared values and family negated not only by infidelity, but a metamorphisis of character.Yes it is hard, but the acceptance of that is who is, with all of his anger indirectly directed at me. My H uses threats through the lawyer...hoping I will bite as I did in the past and has not only torn the family unit vis a vis the children apart, he has also manipulated the children in a very damaging and unforgivable manner. Will this get better? Not for a long time, but this type of behaviour is what I now expect from him (not what he will exactly do, but I know that he will continue in this pattern of behaviour so knowing this means I will be surprised and hurt by what he does, not that he does it) and knowing the expected pattern somehow makes it better in that i have learnt not to be so wounded and analytical about each event.I hope you can gain some insight into my ramblings on what "better" means.It does not mean life is better now that had this all not happened.It does not mean that it will ever be better to be a single parent.It does not mean it is better to be alone.It does not mean that it is better financiallyWhat better means to me is that I am living a life with hope for tomorrow. what ever tomorrow brings.Better for me means I am no longer in the trough of the roller coaster.I have been separated since March 99. Divorce filed July 99 and have only got to this more settled place emotionally in the last 2 months. You lasted in plan A much longer than most. I give you so much credit, but now you need time to mourn the what was and this takes many months before you can negotiate the next step of this treacherous journey.I still do think about it each and every day, but understanding that it is what my H lost by tearing this family apart makes me more sad than angry more times than not, and it is this that helps me.

sorry..double post[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited March 31, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>One of two things happened. Either I wasted 25 years living with someone who hated me while pretending that he loved me, or his personality changed virtually overnight. Either one of those alternatives has completed destroyed everything I ever believed. To use the trip to France analogy, it is more like landing in Bosnia instead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>First, I'd guess that he changed, not that you couldn't see the "real" him at the time. I fully appreciate the "landing in Bosnia" analogy. After my daughter's death, I felt like I had been literally picked up out of my life, and deposited into a totally hellish life instead. After a while I realized that I needed to quit viewing it that way for the sake of my son. Realizing it and being able to do it are different things though...it took a while to be able to really appreciate that my life could still be good, albeit quite different...Hang in there-- Kathi

teddy bear,When he said he wanted a divorce, he said he had been feeling that way for "weeks, maybe months". And for that he was willing to throw away a relationship of 24 years and a family of 7. Recently, however, he claimed our "problems" had been present for decades.I was reading on another website about a betrayed woman who very much wanted her H back, until she met someone else. Within a matter of days, she completely changed her mind - now she apparently wants a divorce ASAP. It is hard to believe these relationships take over so fast. Unattached people don't seem to fall in love that fast. Animac,I am not sure I understand the concept of the love bank running dry. I don't love my H any less than I did the day he left. I can imagine being happy with my H, but even if I couldn't, it is hard to imagine that I could possibly be more unhappy than I am now. willbok,I, too, am more sad than angry - but the sadness feels much much worse than anger. Kathi,Of course the death of a child is far worse than betrayal. From what I have seen of my sister's life since the murder of her son two years ago, there is no evidence that she thinks life will ever be good. Maybe bearable, but not good.Life wasn't all that great even before he left. We had no hope of ever getting ahead financially, and little hope of ever finding a place to live that we didn't detest that we could afford. Little did I know that it would only get worse - first with my nephew's murder, and then my H's betrayal and desertion.

From Frank Pittman's book "Private Lies"...Pittman is horrified by the statistic that 5 years after the divorce, in only 10% of the cases do both spouses agree it was the right decision.

Cuckold,Well I know that I am never going to think it was the right decision. It makes me so angry that people pretend that divorce is usually a mutual decision. One counselor we went to actually had the nerve to suggest that we should tell the kids that we were going to divorce because "we" weren't happy. I am not sure I belong on this part of the forum, because it seems like most of the people here have given up, no longer love their spouses and have decided that they want to be divorced.I guess I don't believe in many of the MB principles. I don't believe that love, whether between spouses or between parents and children, is conditional. I don't believe in the love bank concept - certainly if it were true, mine should be empty by now. I will love my H for the rest of my life. Of course I am angry at him, but anger is not incompatible with love. I don't believe that most betrayers betray because their "emotional needs" are not met. I think that is way too simplistic. I think Frank Pittman is much closer to the mark when he says that betrayers betray because of issues from their own childhood. He is of the opinion that for men, it is due to problems in their relationship with their fathers, but I suspect it is sometimes more complicated that that. He said that betrayal is often due to the fact that it is not that their wives do not understand them; their wives understand them too well. For whatever reason they feel that they have failed, they think, sometimes correctly, that their wives agree, and they look for someone who makes them feel better about themselves. Even if the wife appears to admire the H, he does not necessarily believe it is real, because he knows that she knows of his failures, and therefore he doubts that she could really be admiring him. I think my H is overwhelmed by the fear of rejection. His father has always obviously preferred his brother. His first wife deserted him after only two months - and he waited many months before he filed. Only rarely have I seen him initiate affection or real conversations with the children. He almost never reaches out to hug them, yet he seems very happy when they are affectionate to him.

Hi Nellie,Please do not take offense to my reply. I've read each and everyone of these replies to you. I don't believe that anyone responding to you is "pretending" that it gets better. Nor do I believe that all the folks here "just gave up". If you recall all my posts over the past year, I too was horrified, remained angry, bitter, and refused to accept my husbands infidelity. There will come a time when you will have to accept that no matter what Nellie wants, it won't necessarily be...For all the times that I begged, pleaded, wanted, cried, and virtually made myself sick over wanting my husband back, now I am beginning to realize that it really is what's better for my family. The fighting has ceased. I no longer have the feeling that I'm "begging" my husband to want me, be with me, love me. Talk about no dignity or self esteem! It was pretty low.It is far better to have an ex-spouse that you are able to communicate with on a fairly civil basis, than to be married to a current spouse that has no love, respect, nor desire to be with you.Just my thoughts.

Tired Lady,I am not offended, but I am not sure that you can generalize on the basis of your experiences. Of course I want him to feel love, respect and a desire to be with me. Prior to the affair, if he didn't feel this way, he hid it well. We argued occasionally, but certainly a lot less than many couples I know. This is in no way better than before the affair. Not to mention that it is far, far worse for the kids.And then there is the fact that he is not willing to communicate with me, period - civilly or otherwise. If he needs to communicate anything that isn't purely logistical, he either has his lawyer send me a letter (even when it is child related, and has nothing to do with divorce) or he goes ahead and does whatever he wants (or she tells him to) and then emails me. Actually, I am reasonably certain that she at least edits, if not writes, some of his emails, since sometimes the writing style isn't his. I am sick and tired of the OW's involvement in the communication my H and I have about our kids. The other night he got all concerned because he was running 15 minutes late because I wanted to talk to him about the results of some medical tests one of our kids had.

Actually Nellie, your post gives new meaning to "fake it til you make it" and that's what I'm doing. Am I really happy? Somedays I think I am, some days not. Will I get better in time...you bet. We all will. Just have to hang in there. What we all had was probably "comfortable" and who wants to give up comfort. What we can and will all gain in time is peace within ourselves in knowing it was NOT us. I will never hold myself accountable for my H's indescretions and his affair after 29 years of a "perfect" marriage. Was I asleep? Oh God, am I still sleeping in this horrid nightmare??? Well the answer is no and I know it's up to me to make my own dreams come true. We can't click our heels anymore and say "there's no place like home" because our homes have been broken, our hearts have been broken and this is reality. I agree, it bites, but it does not have to end up bittersweet. It's up to us.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Of course the death of a child is far worse than betrayal. From what I have seen of my sister's life since the murder of her son two years ago, there is no evidence that she thinks life will ever be good. Maybe bearable, but not good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nellie, my intention was never to say that one situation is worse than another...it's not a competition. Only to let you know that I have some basis for my faith that your life can eventually become quite a bit more than bearable. {Your sister's also, for that matter...you are both in my prayers tonight}.Kathi

Bev,I have tried to fake it - fake being functional, fake continuing on with my life for the kids, taking them places, etc. I went back to work, keep busy - and I have come to the conclusion that it makes no difference whatsoever. I am just as miserable as the day he left, maybe more so, because now I know that he wants little to do with the kids either. At least at first I thought that he would still continue to be a father to them.I initially almost believed it when people said things would get better. But they were wrong. Yes, I can fake it, but it is pointless. Kathi,I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was some kind of competition. I am just well aware that things could be worse, and I am grateful for my children. I was reading a mailing list that I am on where someone casually mentioned that she and her husband divorced because they had disagreements and couldn't live together. Where do these people come from? Are they all lying to everyone, including themselves? Have you ever actually met someone with kids who divorced for reasons other than infidelity or abuse? I suppose you could say that my H and I disagreed - we disagree about whether it is ok for him to live with another woman.

I know Nellie, cause I try to fake it to many people too. But the one person we can not deceive or lie to is ourselves.But you know what...we have to do it anyway, because sooner or later we will believe in ourselves because we are good people.Reality is that bad and unfortunate things also happen to good people. It happened to us. I don't like it, but I can't control it right now. I hope to be able to control it in the future because I know I am worth it. I hope you realize your worth and if you don't right now, it's okay, because the rest of us do and are at your side.

Nellie,Don't you want to feel loved, respected, desired by your husband? Who cares what he wants! His needs had nothing to do with the statement I made. It's all about what Nellie's needs are.Isn't it obvious from his actions that he could care less about you? From what you say, he has even disregarded his own children's feelings! What the heck is it about this so called "man" that makes him attractive to you? Your long marital history? Seems to me like he destroyed that and continues to destroy whatever memories you still have, good or bad. Okay, I admit, I'm in a man basher mode right now, but gosh, he seems very undeserving of the wonderful woman, wife and mother you seem to be. You won't be able to move on and be a completely happy, whole Nellie, until you let go of this man who makes you so miserable.Let the OW have him! He's her problem now.

Bev, Thanks for the support. The misery that I am feeling is not so much about feeling worthless - I know that I am worth something to my kids - but more about feeling hopeless. For at least a year before my H left, it was becoming more and more obvious that it was a matter of "another day older and deeper in debt" - but at least I had an intact family. Now, my hopes and goals for my family are destroyed, and financially the situation is much worse as well. Tired Lady, No, what is obvious to me is not that he doesn't care about me or the kids, but that he has lost all ability to feel any emotion except anger and fear. I suspect deep down he is terrified - perhaps terrified that he has destroyed his life, that his kids will stop loving him, that the OW will reject him. I think he may feel that his life is out of control, and he is desparately trying to hold onto what little control he does have. He has done many things that are completely illogical from any perspective. I am not at all sure that in his current mental state he is even capable of making a conscious decision to hurt me. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 02, 2000).]

Nellie,I agree, it may never get better, just different.We will always love our ex's deep down. Some of us go on to new love, but we still carry that pain with us forever.I relate to all you say. Everything I believed in was shattered. Its basically losing your innocense and losing your security.I know your pain, I follow your story, I just have been lurking lately. I wish you the best. Maybe the divorce, will bring a little more closure on it in the end.Prayers, and hugs, Dana

I am quite sure the pain will never diminish. I don't think there will ever be closure, because I will never know why.

Nellie, Not much else to tell you.Just my unvaluable opinion!No,I don't think your H was"faking it"for 25 years,just like I don't believe my W was"acting"for 15 years.I don't believe it,I refuse to believe it.Number one,everyone here has gotten the"I haven't loved you for years"speech.Number two,it's just how they perceive things now,due to an affair,or a MLC.Number three,it is totally beyond my comprehension that anyone can act or fake it for years and years.And if they can,they need a lot more professional help than I do understanding it. Closure may come in time,perhaps a lot of time.We will probably never know"why"they did what they did.They may never know why.I know it's driving you crazy(like it has me),but you're going to blow a gasket if you keep it up!You're looking for an answer that there may not be a rational(the keyword here is"rational")answer to. My only hope is,given enough time,we will reach a point where we don't care anymore about the"WHY".We will continue on with our life,knowing that there are some things we will just never understand(like how a show like"The Simpsons" has stayed on the air for so long!) --Murph

Murph,Unfortunately, the OW has apparently convinced my H that our relationship has been untenable for decades. It makes little sense that we supposedly had problems so severe that they could not have been worked out had we faced them early on, but my H managed to ignore them for at least 20 years, but that is his theory. He must have been very talented.

Nellie, I know what you mean about it seeming to never get better. My situation has been going on a year. After my H walked out (again) 3 days ago, I said,"To he!! with it. I'm not waiting on him anymore," I called a lawyer that day and I have an appt. in 2 weeks. I'm going to file for divorce, even though I initially didn't want it. But my H is someone I no longer know. He violated our marriage contract and changed the rules without ever telling me. I do not deserve to be treated like this. Yes, I am still sad and depressed most of the time. Yes I think about it first thing in the morning. Will it ever get better? I don't know. But I WILL NOT be his doormat anymore. Do you honestly think God would want you to surrender your self-esteem this way? I know that is contrary to MB in some ways, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses. I was a good wife who loved my family very much. It just wasn't enough. It's too bad if he wakes up and realizes he made a mistake. I am no longer under any obligation to wait for him. He threw out the rulebook himself. I don't know how to tell you to ease your pain. I think each of us has to find our own way. Anti-deps and anxiety meds have helped me along with counselling. But Nellie, ultimately you have to decide if you are going to lay down and die or take the lemons you've gotten and make lemonade. I don't mean to sound harsh, but YOU are responsible for your own happiness. It is up to YOU. Don't allow your H to do this. The best revenge is living well. ------------------ Blessed be. **************** KeridwenKeridwen_7@yahoo.com

You know what Nellie? I lived the last 3 months in an emotional cave, deep in the cave, and at some times flat against the back wall I sat, in a slump, unable to move. I went to counseling, I took the Xanax, I cried, I complained to whoever would listen, I stopped talking to my mother, my friends... and then one day (last Sunday to be exact, in the middle of a whooper migraine) I just 'woke up' and realized that I deserve better than this - I said in my head f**k all of them! And I literally got up from the chair and began to function again - like me - like Sheryl. Keri is right, it is YOUR choice now. Get up off of that chair and begin to live your life without your precious husband. You know the truth (he DID love you for 19 years) and GO FORWARD! This bitterness can KILL you... do you know that women in our position are more prone to cancer and heart attacks? Our defenses are down, it's harder to fight disease... please, for your sanity and health, for your children... GET UP OFF THE CHAIR AND LIVE YOUR LIFE! You are a good woman! Show your kids what you're made of!!~Sheryl

Keriwden, and NBWhat makes you think I am not continuing to live my life - I am. But it does not matter. I can and will continue for the rest of my life to go along working, raising the kids, whatever I have to do, but always with the knowledge that the way to achieve happiness is to put yourself first and to H*** with anyone else. That it is perfectly possible to live a happy life without a conscience, and much more difficult to live a happy life with one. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your point of view, not everyone can throw away their conscience on demand. But there is nothing I can do, nothing I can say, that will keep my kids from learning that lesson as well. My lawyer has told me there is nothing I can do to keep him from arbitrarily reducing visitation. Apparently legally, as long as he doesn't want to see the kids more than the standard visitation, I have to allow that, not that I want to deny the kids. So what if now he only wants to see them once a month - apparently if a few months from now he decides he wants to see them twice a month, there is nothing I can do about it. If he decides he only wants to see them one at a time, he can do that too. He is legally allowed to make me readjust my life every time he wants to readjust visitation, and there is not a d*** thing I can do about it. Every one knows that the one with the money is the one who comes out ahead. He knows it, the lawyers know it, the OW knows it, and I know it. He knows that it is safe to withhold child support occasionally, as long as the amount he withholds is less that what it would cost me to have the lawyer fight to get it restored. He knows he can jerk the kids around because they are so desparate to have him see them that they will accept once a month or whatever the OW tells him is allowable. I will NEVER have enough money to raise the kids. EVER. I figured out that for every dollar I earn more than what I am earning now, 80% of it will disappear to reduced child support and taxes, etc. If I have to pay for child care (which this state does not require the noncustodial parent to pay for, although it would come off my income before the reduction in child suppport was computed), I would lose money if I went back to work full-time. Even if my hourly salary were to double, which is highly unlikely, I would be no better off financially than I am right now. I have never met children of divorce who were anything even approaching happy. Maybe they exist somewhere. My state has one of the lowest divorce rates in the country, so my kids aren't even likely to have any friends growing up whose parents are divorced. My two college age kids knew only a couple of people whose parents were divorced the whole time they were growing up. Nearly everyone here is married. You may find this hard to believe, but I only once, to my knowledge, met a divorced man. Everyone I have ever worked with has been either single or married, and I have worked in organizations with hundreds of employees. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 08, 2000).]

Dear Nellie,I don't post much at all, but I've followed your story from time to time.This is all I have to offer - things will get better when you decide to let them get better. Maybe outside circumstances won't change, but when you decide to change your thoughts and feelings about those things, when you decide to take on an attitude of acceptance and trust, then you will start to feel better inside, eventually, over time, your outlook will be brighter. Focusing so much on things that are just not within your control is exhausting and depressing. My believes may be a little non-standard, but I will share them anyway: I am learning to trust in God and the universe, to believe that everything is as it should be, to believe that there is always enough of whatever I need to survive, physically and emotionally. I have learned to have the courage to change the things I can, and accept the things I can not change - still working on the serenity - but it's coming, because I trust that I am finally on a path of growth. Here is a story I found that I want to share: *************** A Story About TrustA poor man prayed in earnest for his family. "Lord, we have depended so much on the kindness of others, now we seek a home to call our own. As you know, my body has become weak from this terrible illness which has finally left me and I have leaned so much on others that I don't even know if I can stand on my own. I ask You, God, for strength of body and spirit, wisdom, and to help provide a home for my darling wife and children."A tear fell down from the man's eye.A few days later, a kind and elderly widow heard of this father's plight. "I have a plot of land you may have to build upon, but it is sorely overgrown with thick brush,trees, and large rocks. I will gladly give it to you, but it will be a laborsome undertaking," she said. The man also knew this, yet he accepted the widow's generous offer, knowing such an opportunity might not again pass. The man stood afar and surveyed his newly gained property. Looking up, he smiled and said, "Lord, I asked You for a home and You give me this gnarled forest? I will trust and be thankful for the gift before me."Several days into the major undertaking of levelling the land off, the man slumped against the twentieth tree he cut by hand. Sweat poured from his body, which was now covered by ruddy brown earth. "Lord!" he shouted, "Why did You choose this God-forsaken plot of land? Is this my punishment for not taking care of my family while sick these last few years? Is this the type of loving God You are?" Exasperated, the man clenched his fist and went back to work, muttering to himself, " I will continue to trust." Several months passed. Upon resting under the final tree to be removed, the man looked about him in wonder. Before him stood a beautiful plot of land to build a home. The lush forest surrounding the leveled area would provide good protection from the cold winter winds and also offer an abundant supply of firewood to keep warm. In a large pile next to the levelled earth, were neatly stacked tree trunks.They would make excellent logs to build a cabin. Ashamed for thinking God had left Him in his most dire time of need, the man rested his head in his hands. Suddenly, he looked in to his palms. These were not the same weak hands that could barely grasp a cup to drink from. Instead, they were strong and fit, as was the rest of his body from the many months of hard physical labor.The man looked up and smiled, saying, "My dear God, thank You. You answered my prayer,even in my worst moments of doubt. You took my weakness and turned it into strength and my lack of understanding, into wisdom. I will rest a while now, and begin to build my family a house."The moral of this story concerns faith and trust in God. Often, we ask God for strength and the ability to endure, yet when He offers us more situations to test and try our patience and areas we may need improvement in, we shake our fists, grumble and complain, doubting our Heavenly Father's abilities. Only God can use our most difficult times to teach us some of our greatest truths. If only we open our hearts and minds, though.Just as the man in this story trusted God, despite his inability to fully understand from an earthly level, we, too, can see how one may reap the rewards of pure and simple faith and trust in One who is worthy to be called King of Kings and Lord of Lords. *******Please take care of yourself Nellie - that's where you start.

Nellie...in no way did I mean to belittle your pain. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. But ATTITUDE means everything. OK, so your kids see what a selfish lout your H is. Maybe what they'll learn out of all this is NOT to hurt those they love. It only causes misery. Maybe they'll look at you picking up the pieces no matter how hard it is and they'll see someone who refuses to give up. They'll see someone who gets lemons and makes lemonade. They'll see that life is never easy, but you deal with it and you MOVE ON. I am sad too. I feel depressed and unworthy and unloveable, but I have made myself get up every day and go to work, take the kids to baseball & softball & piano & band & the movies. And we go on rides out in the country and get lost and laugh about trying to find our way back home. And we talk about the fun things we are going to do THIS weekend. It's not easy. But its what I've got. Why be miserable? I am not responsible for the poor choices my H has made. HE is. And I do know kids of divorce who are happy. I WAS one. So is my sister. And I will be again. So will you and your kids. Try not to look too far in the future. You are not alone in the world. You may not have all the material comfort you used to have and that is hard. I am experiencing that myself. But there are other things in life. Sunshine, trees, laughing children, lots of things. I hope you can start to see the good in the world despite your circumstances. ------------------ Blessed be. **************** KeridwenKeridwen_7@yahoo.com

It is not easy to be happy with what you don't want. Once you've had everything, it is hard to settle for a mere existence.I understand Nellie's pain and her feelings. It does not ever get better once you've lost your life. And for women like me and Nellie, our H's and families ARE OUR LIVES. We chose this path with joy and anticipation, and we were not disappointed with our choice.But, our lives were cruelly destroyed and ripped from us, without our consent, without our permission. And, we are constantly being told that we must accept "reality", accept what has happened and learn to deal with it.Well, we ARE dealing with it! But, people also seem to demand that we grow or learn to "like" it too! And, if you're honest about it as Nellie is...well, that is not all right, it bothers people to hear the truth. Somehow they think that it means she hasn't accepted it. WRONG...she HAS accepted it, but what she will never do is "like" it, and claim it as her own.It would destroy her soul to own such a travesty. Nellie is honoring her own path. Everyone handles things differently, but for women like me and Nellie, whose lives disappeared in the blink of an eye, there is no replacement to come. We know that, and that is our sorrow.My 10 year old handicapped son died, and then two years later, almost to the day, my H, the man I'd loved for 23 years, the only man I ever loved, left me, and our older son for dead. Yes, there was another woman. He was with her for 4 years, two of them engaged. He came within hours of marrying her. He ended up, backing out of the wedding with cold feet. He told her he wouldn't marry her because of unresolved feelings for me, imagine that. He just broke up with her...finally. It cost him 250K to get rid of her. He seems to now realize what he lost, at least in regard to our older son. Will his new supposed new awareness lead him to make amends, I don't know.I don't know what is to come. I don't know what I believe anymore. But, I can tell you, that it hasn't gotten one drop easier in the 3 years since the divorce...not one BIT easier. From the outside, I seem fine, everyone thinks I am terrific. But, I am not terrific, I am sad and alone and heartbroken.I cannot find a way to view the devastation of my life as a blessing in disguise...I had EXACTLY the life I desired and dreamed of...now I don't...end of story. My life ended the day my H left me and our son. What I have now is not a life, it is an existence. A poor substitute indeed...trust me on this one.[This message has been edited by skye (edited April 09, 2000).]

estr and Keriwden,Skye's post explained it far better than I can..BTW, it is not that I have fewer material things now - we weren't doing so well financially before he left, either. But I used to have hope, and the knowledge that someday, when the kids were older, I could go back to work and improve our position. Now, I have figured out that I have no reasonable expectation of ever having enough money to live on.Skye,Thank you for the eloquent post. You have expressed so well everything that I have been feeling also.I am so sorry about the loss of your son.

`[This message has been edited by skye (edited February 21, 2001).]

Skye,Thanks for your response. I, too, have often felt that most people don't "get it". My sister and a good friend both tried to convince me that "they hardly ever come back". I suppose they think that believing that would somehow be for my own good... Even some of my kids think I am nuts to even want him back.I too will love my H until the day I die.

Nellie,from the reading I've done, the ONE and ONLY reason "harldy any of them come back," is because hardly ANYONE WAITS for the betrayer to wake up!! So there is more often than not, NO ONE TO COME BACK TO! There are very few hearty souls brave enough and courageous enough to stay the course.The world is WAY TOO busy, PUSHING all the betrayed ones to "forget about him, get on with your own life, saying if he doesn't want you, it's his loss". If they'd leave people alone, and let them handle their lives in their own way...there just might be more restored marriages. People need room to breathe and decide what is right for them, without constant judgement and criticism.It seems to bother people a lot if you decide to have faith. It bothers people if you don't rush into another relationship. They try and create a dark drama about how you're not "moving on", not dealing with reality.The implication of all this supposed well meaning advice is, that if you do NOT do what they want you to do on their timetable, what they are comfortable with you doing, what they approve of, with what they THINK they would do in your shoes...well, something must be wrong with YOUR thinking!The world has to put people in little slots, and a woman who does not eventually tow the party line, and put on a happy face facade...rocks the boat. So do not listen to anyone whose words do not resonate with your soul Nellie. NO ONE but you has to live with the decisions you make, so you do what is right for you and your family.And, no matter what the rule...there are always exceptions...you do NOT have to color inside the lines all the time!Stay strong.~skye~

Skye,Thanks for the support. Even here, it seems that many people think you shouldn't want them back once they have filed for divorce.

Nellie and Skye,I get it, believe me, I do... I'll be carring a torch for my H for the rest of my life. I have hopes and dreams of him coming back to me... healthy and sober... he may, he may not, but I am not closing any doors. In the mean time though, I refuse to be miserable, I have the opportunity here to grow up a bit myself, rebuild my own self-image, build a life that I am happy with - and no, it is certainly not my first choice, but it is the only choice I have right now. I believe, deep in my heart, that my H and I will eventually have a better relationship than we have ever had before, there will be mutual respect and mature love and caring, and that somehow this time we are about to spend apart must be necessary to ultimately bring about that end.So what I meant in my previous post Nellie, is that I am going to trust in the forces of God and the universe. Because I have faith that all will be as it should be, I can choose to be happy within myself right now. I am not going to grieve anymore for what I feel I have lost (not too often anyway [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

) - I'd rather put my energy in what I am building for myself and my child, and that life will always have a place waiting for my H if he chooses.Sometimes you have to tear down to rebuild, you know?

Skye-Your post was one that I read several times and I have to tell you that you captured what I and many of the people here on MB feel when they go through what you have explained.I had a friend tell me that in his soul, his experience will always feel like a loss that will be felt the rest of his life. The type of loss that he said his therapist told him is what is termed a "nagging, ongoing loss". A nagging loss is like a loss that he was told that couples expereince when there are problems with one or both of their reproductive systems that will not allow them to have children...infertility; you are always reminded of it.Although muted over time, it continues past the "acute" phase – that lasts up to four to six months. This type of loss will be dealt with until death!It does not get better...it just gets less acute over time...but never ever goes away! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

mrrlk

Skye, that was beautiful. Reminds me of that oft-told story of Gavin MacCloud's wife... how she "stayed the course" refused to believe it was over, kept his slippers by the bed, had a Bible engraved with his name, and prayed that man home. Okay, I can believe it when I read stories like yours... Nellie, anything is possible. I've only been worried about your hurting heart... you sound so sad all the time. If you go back and read what I wrote, I think you'll see that. I wasn't telling you to "snap out of it", mearly sharing my concern for your wellbeing.

new_beginning,Could you tell me more about the Gavin and Patti MacLeod story? I know only the bare bones outline of what Patti did. How long did she have to stand for her marriage, before Gavin returned?I love the part about the slippers by their bed and the engraved bible with his name on it. What else do you remember about their story. I know that they wrote a book, but unfortuantely, I believe that it is out of print.If anyone knows the name of this book, please let me know, I'd really love to read a stander's success story!Thanks!~skye~**I found it at amazon.com it is called BACK ON COURSE. But, it is out-of-print. I have them doing a search for me.[This message has been edited by skye (edited April 10, 2000).]

skye,I think it was years, maybe 3 or so... he was doing the Love Boat at the time, I remember that... and her prayer ladies prayed... you know they have a show on TBN in the states, and all over the world, I think... I think it's the same name as the book.~Sheryl

Hello Limerick. I am new to this forum, but i read your respons and was so inspired. You appear to be where I want to be. My H left me and our 1 year old son for another woman. It has beed about 6 months since I found out and the divorce is final May 4th. My biggest problem is obsessing on the two of them being happy. I have really great days when I just think of me my son and my family, but when i think of them it still drives me crazy. Im curios how does your H respond to the new you <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Limerick: Nellie,Everything that has been said is good advise. It is time to take control of your life and stop having any expectation at all from your STBX h. He is an alien and you should accept that. I too had to file, because my h would have never have done it. I waited and waited for him to figure it out. It has been 2 year and he is still seeing the OW. I filed last March and am still not divorced because he is dragging dragging his feet. I just finally had enough and yes I was in pain just like you. I would literally embrace myself and my loneliness every night for months and months. I also started changing my life, working out, playing more tennis, getting out socially with other divorced people. I stopped looking for a Mr right I was not interested in that one bit. I was exploring my new life and redeveloping the relationship I had with my children. Letting them know that I needed my own space sometimes and that I would be ok when I was without them. You need to let go of your anger sweetie. It is only eating at you and empowering you and making you so very very bitter. Yes its ok to get angry but then move on and don't stay trapped in that phase. Learn to push through it and be above it. Believe me it freaked my x out when I let it all go. He still doesn't get the new me. The funny thing is that I am happy now. I am in a committed relationship with a kind man. I have no expectations about this relationship either. If it works great if it doesn't, it just wasn't meant to be. I can't control anybody but myself. I treat him with respect and I show my affection for him openly. If there is something not right in our relationship, I expect him to be honest and open and I am also. Anyway, I think it is time to stop talking or even seeing your x. Make your transfers quick and with no confrontations. Yes he is your childrens father, but he is going to make his own mistakes and you cant fix them for him. Let him go, he doesn't deserve so much of your mind energy, he is sucking you dry. Hope I haven't offended in any way. I just know how that pain, bitterness and loneliness can envelope you and you just sit there numb. Take careGerri <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Nellie and Skye,Real love is not replaceable. Different, but not replaceable.I'm very sorry you lost your son, Skye. I don't have children, but can only imagine your pain. It has been a year since my divorce, and i have no desire to find someone new either. Everyone, including my ex, say "learn from my mistakes and then I can find someone new". What kind of pitiful existence is that? Hopping from one guy to the next. I think what you did was very admirable. Do trust your heart.Nellie, I hope you never got the impression from me that I thought you should find someone new or forget about your H. I would like you to feel better about yourself, and find some peace somehow. What Skye says earlier about your life being ripped away from you both makes so much sense. I do get it.

estr and nb,Thanks for your concern. In some ways it is just better to accept the fact that some things just never heal. TheStudent,I certainly didn't think that you were suggesting that I start dating. I know how you feel about that.

Nellie1,The subject of dating has come up in my therapy recently and it kind of bugs me. My impression is that people (including my counselor) believe that I won't be truly healed until I find someone new. Like that is the pinnacle of emotional achievement (?). Hmm. Then I guess priests and monks are all severely undeveloped emotionally. I think the reverse is true. I'm of the mind now that, once a certain innocence has been lost, then having a new relationship has the potential to be even more damaging. How many times can legs be broken before someone can't walk anymore? When people say "that which doesn't kill only makes you stronger" has never had anything truly awful happen to them. Ask people who have lost a child if they are "stronger" now. Ask people who've witnessed a murder or been involved in war feel "stronger". There are some wounds that do not heal. All we can do is cope and try to be thankful for the good things we still do have in our lives.You know, for a long time my choice brought me alot of sadness but it doesn't anymore. My friends who have boyfriends/husbands are plagued by their opinion of them. "My hair doesn't look right."; "I'm getting fat, better go work out." "He didn't call me, I wonder if he still loves me"; "Am I meeting his needs for (fill in the blank)?" Man, I sure don't miss that. I've changed my haircolor twice this month, don't shave my legs unless I'm wearing a skirt (and sometimes not even then), don't wear makeup unless I feel like it, could go on and on. It's been actually FUN in alot of ways, especially after all the hoops I jumped through for my ex. [This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 14, 2000).]

TheStudent,You are right that some wounds just don't heal. And I doubt if they will heal for the kids either. That "what doesn't kill us" saying drives me crazy too - actually I think it is more like "What doesn't kill us just lops off a huge pieces of our hearts, and after enough of these events, there is just nothing left."Our little one was crying again after my H took my son somewhere and left her behind - and this child never used to suffer from separation anxiety. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 15, 2000).]

Nellie, You are correct. There will always be this gaping wound in my life as well....how it heals is what is in my power to control. By conducting my life as a person whose family always took priority and still does. The difference for me is that H no longer is part of this family and this will always hurt....even when the kids are much older.It is this part that for me will never get better and will fester in some ways. I will always regret what should have been, and life will not necessarily be better, but different than it was and should have been. This was the context when I came to the understanding that I had no choice but to live my life to the fullest under the circumstances and under the constraints of who I am as well as the values and morals I have always had, then life became better in terms of realising no matter what I did or did not do, I could do nothing to change the situation vis a vis my H,(not only ow, but irresponsibility for so much and this adolescent behaviour) and it was this mind set that freed me from absolute dispair which in fact made the situation somewhat better for me emotionally.I hope this makes sense. I will always realize that my life and that of my children would have been better if many things had not happened, but thet did, and therefore one has to continue to live life with some hope that tomorrow will be better somehow and in someway...not that life itself is easier or better. Take care

I think part of it depends on how you define "heal"...I used to think of it as being back to good as new. My minister (in a totally different context) said he thought that we often confuse being "cured" with being "healed"...that a deep wound may heal, but never be cured. Yes, it still hurts (tho probably not as much after a few years as when it was fresh). Yes, there is a scar. No, it's not as good as new. But, it heals so that we can function well, deal with life, find pleasure in things again. Is it ever as good as new? No. But, is it still a raw, gaping wound that bleeds at every touch? No, thankfully.

willbok,I'm afraid I don't get it - knowing that I can do nothing to affect this is one of the major causes for the despair, as is the certainty that tomorrow will if anything be worse. I will forever have all the responsibility and little of the control. I will never be able even to count on regular child support, without periodic visits to the court. kam,Yes, I do believe that it will always be an open wound that bleeds at every touch - and if it is not bleeding by itself, my H or the OW will make sure that they do something to reopen it. I envy those people whose husbands have completely disappeared. It would definitely be easier not to ever see him again, not to have the OW flaunted in my face, and I suspect it would be easier for the kids too than it is for him to pretend he still cares about them, while refusing to see them very often, while telling them that he is not sure he can see them on Easter, because the OW might be busy, and even if he does see them, it will only be two of them, because the four of them fight too much. He is going to continue to give them mixed messages for the rest of their lives - pretending that he loves them while his actions say something completely different. [This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited April 17, 2000).]

Nellie,

In a sincere effort to understand your pain, I took the time to read this earlier thread.

Have things gotten better?

Is the wound "closed"?

Do you still, at the core of your being, have a heart tie with the XH that cannot be broken... but can only cause pain? As long as the relationship is not restored?

Maybe this is a "deep thought".

But when we say the vow "until death do us part"... we know that divorce, in practise, breaks the legal ties, according to civil law, that holds two marriage partners together.

However, I believe that God still stands holding two hearts together sometimes.

And, in my own experience, that never really changes.

So the choices are these:

1. Continue to have a broken relationship, that at it's deepest level, is a broken heart, or

2. Restore the relationship.

When the heart is broken - there are ways to distance one's self from the effect of the pain. Obviously, there are steps we can take to protect ourselves from the heightened experience of a core pain that will always remain.

But what are your thoughts today?

Laura

Nellie,

I'm aware that a part of my pain will never go away... but I have other scars as well, carrying them with me every day... I have joys too, and a lot of love in me and for me, moreover, I still have my life, in my hands... and will have more of both, pain and happiness, otherwise life itself would be empty... and will be carring them too...

Getting older the package of the past can just be bigger... It doesn't hurt if we recognize it as a part of OURSELVES... and we have to love each part of ourselves!... and just adapt our shoulders to be stronger... to keep moving on and fast enough to reach as many as enough sunrises before the last one...

PS:

It DOES get better!
IF YOU decide to get better!

You CHOSE to walk on sunny streets of your mind as oposite to dark ones where you are now... simply as that.

Once you make THAT decision, you'll KNOW it does get better!

I have to say that I was a bit surprised to see this post appear after 4 years. But in answer to the question, has it gotten better, the answer is no. My H has managed to further distance himself from the children, and in many ways is not acting anything close to rationally. It is kind of like watching someone deteriorate from Alzheimer's. Not to mention, from a financial point of view things have deteriorated further - he just lost his job again, and is going to court to reduce the child support even more.

Hi Nellie:

I don't know what to say.

Give your kids a hug, they are going to need all the love and affection they can get. Try to stay in the moment, not in the past and not in the future. Sounds like drivel I know but . . .

((((Nellie))) Consider yourself hugged too.

Healing for the Broken Hearted

Effective Coping Methods and Spiritual Healing for Victims of Betrayal

by James and Lyn Kirkland

https://www1.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=23609

Hi nellie- after 24 years...my h walked out 15 weeks ago- completely out of control-living one block away with ow. GET YOURSELF together. try this book-and the BIBLE!! I will be praying for you...and I PROMISE you that if you let CHRIST rule your life-you WILL find peace and healing and even financial provision in HIM! I am living with outrageous circumstances and I am ALIVE and well. I still dream about and love my h- I need the Lord and he is WAITING for you!!!

PEACE OUT...and IN!