I think I need a stronger pill - Marriage Builders® Forums

I read back at my posts and sure hope that you all don't think I'm looney!!! Up & down, up & down. I'm sure alot of us here are like that. I was wondering if anyone else felt like this; I am desperately trying to"hear what I want to hear" Which is reconciliation and the belief that it can happen. What gives me hope in this is, in addition to reading and posting here, my husband tells me what a fool he was in starting the affair and how sorry he is the mess that he has made, plus when I was moving, the outpouring of emotions. My STBXH is trying to get his life back on track with work and spiritually. Yet he is still going after the OW with such fevor, it is sickening. I also want to hear that the relationship with the OW will not last. Most of what I read says that the chances of that relationship lasting are pretty slim. But I keep thinking that I am the exception to all the rules.Why does that part of me not want to stop hoping. When he has given me every reason to hate him. Am I a doormat or is it the profound love I always have had for him?

Hang in there. Stick to your plan. You're doing fine. If you do need a different pill, it's not a question of stronger or weaker, it's which one works for you. They try to accomplish different things, usually in different ways; but get lumped together for convenience of classification.

I hope you don't think I am mean or dash your hopes; but I think too many on these boards believe that all will be fine if they just wait it out. I don't think so. I am sure your H feels remorse, guilt, pain, and anguish over this mess. I am sure he doesn't want to hurt you and it pains him to no end that this is happening, but don't look at that as a sign he wants to reconcile.I felt all those things too. I was the one who perpetuated the divorce after 16 years. I felt awful. I was depressed and had to go to counseling. I was confused and torn, and my stbxh looked at my anguish as a sign. The "fog" was lifting. Life is foggy most of the time. I wasn't having a MLC, or was I under some spell of OM. I didn't want to be married to my H anymore. I believe the best way to get through this is to look at the situation as objectively as possible. I work with divorced and separated and have for over five years. Everyone thinks that they will be different...it is a long painful journey, but truthfully, it has been my experience that they don't come back. And if they do, the success rate is less than 5% because the other party realizes they can't get past what happened. I don't believe affairs just happen. I truly believe that unless you are married to a creep, and some are, that most likely there were some profound problems in the marriage that perpetuated the affair. Don't be led to believe that all affairs die. They don't. More times than not, the two get married. Again, I don't want to dash your hopes, but I think so many people fool themselves that an affair is temporary. That kind of thinking may give you hope, but it also keeps you on a string and sets you up for more hurt down the road. Expect anything, deal with the present, and do your best to take care of you emotionally, physcially, and spiritually.Look at this time to figure out what you want to do...what you really want to do.

Actually, the statistics are on your side...most affairs do not end the marriage, and most do end...actually relatively few go on to marry their affair partner (many fewer than reconcile their original marriage). However, there is no guarantee that the one your H is in will end.Lonelysoul is right tho that in some cases, the marriage was emotionally over (not just hurting and conflicted) b4 the affair...these cases do not have a very good prognosis.Good book to check out...Torn Asunder by Dave Carder.The truth is that right now, regardless of what the odds look like, you have no way of knowing how things will end up. Your task is to take care of yourself and be the best person you can be...don't just sit & wait for him to make up his mind, K? If you conributed to the problems in the marriage (as most BS must admit they have some role in), learn and fix yourself...whether you get a chance to do better in this marriage or not, learning to interact & communicate better is never a wasted skill.Hang in there--Kathi

Thank you for your responses. I appreciate your honesty and candor lonelysoul & kam too. I feel that I need a dose of reality. What everyone is trying to tell me is that, who knows what my future or his for that matter holds. I can only be responsible for my own happiness. Even though my husband tells me that this whole thing is his fault and his character flaw, I still am very hard on myself. I can't get over the fact that this man is the one I picked to be with forever & he no longer wants me. Character flaw or not, I am the one left and seriously struggling with this profound loss.In addition to taking care of myself; mabey if I take my sights off of the man I thought was so wonderful and see that there are "truly" good, decent men out there, I'll take my STBX off of the pedestal I put him on.

I too thought that if I only did everything right my husband would come back to me. Well we were divorced in December after 31 years of marriage and he is engaged to OW who is 21 years younger then me and 19 younger then him. Just yesterday I picked up our local paper for our suburb and there was a picture of her on the front page because she had been appointed the head of a new fitness committee by the Mayor. You see she is a very popular yoga instructor. The article went on and on about how wonderful she was and how she does special classes in the schools. Then it said she was engaged to my exhusband. So no price being paid by anyone there. Everyone knows he left me for her including the Mayor who we used to socialize with and no one gives a hoot.I no longer believe the statistics. I am starting to feel that they only make we whose husbands don't come back feel more like a failure. I joined a support group at my church for widowed and divorced women over 50. Guess what? Every single divorced woman in the group got left for an OW! All of us said how could this happen to all of us when its only supposed to happen in 5% of affairs? So Rejected, don't feel bad. And if you need to let go, let go. I still haven't let go completely and the triggers are very very hard, like the article. But looking back I can see I never had a chance no matter which book I read and what plan I did.

discarded,Just because all of the women were left for an OW does not mean that most affairs result in the spouse leaving - it just means that a very large percentage of people have affairs. lonleysoul, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>More times than not, the two get married.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And where, exactly, did you get that statistic? I don't think that even the most strident of OW boards would make a ridiculous claim like that - if it were true, there wouldn't be much reason for OW boards to begin with. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of marriages that take place within a couple of years of divorce end in divorce. I have wondered for a long time why you are posting on marriage builders instead of a divorce support board. Whether you agree with Harley's methods or not, this board is supposed to support those who believe in marriage, not those who say things like they just don't want to be married anymore.

Discarded-- <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I no longer believe the statistics. I am starting to feel that they only make we whose husbands don't come back feel more like a failure. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You are not the failure. The marriage may have failed, but it did not fail bcs of YOU, it failed bcs your H never gave you a chance. Now, you have a new (granted, not a desired) chance...to succeed on your own. It may not be what you wanted, or what we wanted for you, but you CAN do it!You really should get a new name, ya know? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hugs--Kathi

Kam, I know you were talking to Discarded but I am very similar and it felt like you were talking to me. And funny as the e-mail notification popped up I was on the phone with a close friend and he told me that I should change my name because it was self defeating. I loved your reply, thanks!!!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Nellie:I based my statement on reality. I see around 100-150 people a year going through divorce. A very large marjority of them had spouses who committed adultery. A very large majority of those WS married the OP. That is a fact. Whether or not you agree with it or not is moot. I only know what I am dealing with. I don't know or do I have the stats on whether or not they stay married for eternity. Chances are they don't. My point is, so many people think this dreaded "fog" will lift and everyone will live happily ever after. Real life seldom turns out that way. And as far I am concerned. No, I didn't want to stay married to someone who abused me emotionally and physcially. If I am less of a person in your eyes because I had the strength to leave after being strangled in front of my kids, so be it. If I am a bad person and promote divorce because I have been slandered, humiliated, and squeezed so hard financially, I barely am making it...then oh well, I am a bad person. I thought these boards were for those who needed support, who were hurting. Are you saying they are only for those who want to stay married no matter what. Marriage to me is a two way street...you can't have a marriage by yourself. That doesn't mean, I don't care, I don't have feelings, or haven't had my share of heartache during the whole horrific mess. I do believe in marriage, not human sacrifice. I am worth more than being called four letter words, and made to feel like I'm not worth anythind. No one should put up with that.[This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited February 16, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by REJECTED: I read back at my posts and sure hope that you all don't think I'm looney!!! Up & down, up & down. I'm sure alot of us here are like that. I was wondering if anyone else felt like this; I am desperately trying to"hear what I want to hear" Which is reconciliation and the belief that it can happen...Why does that part of me not want to stop hoping. When he has given me every reason to hate him. Am I a doormat or is it the profound love I always have had for him?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, you're not looney. As Sisyphus said, you're doing fine. But your "desperation" to hear what you want to hear is one of the reasons why you need to stick to your plan and keep enough distance to allow some degree of objectivity. (Another reason is that your husband has not yet come out of withdrawal.) By sticking to your plan you are demonstrating to yourself and your husband that you are not a doormat.I'm still hoping for reconciliation in my marriage, and there are some people who think I am a fool to do so. But I think "letting go" is about abandoning the idea that you can somehow control what happens, not about abandoning hope. Even if you are just following a pipe dream, if you are living a fulfilling life in the process, where's the harm? You're not "sacrificing" yourself for your husband.Stay true to yourself. If that means love and hope rather than hatred, you have no reason to be ashamed!

I don't think most affairs end in divorce if and only if the affair was of the one night stand or short fling type and the husband is willing to drop the OW right away or has already dropped her once he is caught. But in cases where the affair has gone on a long time without the wife knowing or where the husband goes back and forth between the wife and the OW, I think most of these end in divorce. Sure you see the occasional success story but in these types of affairs I think you see alot more failures. The wife has all the anger to overcome and so the husband has to really want to work on the marriage. It's far easier to just start all over with the OW and I think that's what most of them do. I don't believe any of these statistics any more. I think that they are mostly false and misleading. But the stories in my church group sure were an eyeopener and they were real and right in front of me. We went to two different counselors before he left. The first one probably thinks we are still together and the second one knows we are not. So I guess if they surveyed them for the statistics they would cancel each other out! I am feeling that I need a new name and perhaps will do that before I post again. I don't post much anymore.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lonelysoul: I think too many on these boards believe that all will be fine if they just wait it out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now that's a sentiment I haven't yet come across on these boards. Although admittedly, I haven't been here that long.I haven't heard the confident assertion that "all will be fine". Instead, I have heard that there is reason for hope, but you can't know what will happen.And I haven't seen the advice to "just wait it out". Instead, I have seen encouragement for us to work on our own problems, to build ourselves up, and to do some extraordinarily difficult things that just might possibly make a difference in our WS's choice of direction. Because even if all does not turn out to be fine, we will be able to continue with our selves more intact than would otherwise be possible.

Lonelysoul--certainly, no one should stay in an abusive marriage. I do think there are marriages which need to end, and often the catalyst that finally brings about the end is an other person...not that they need a final complication, but... I am curious as to what you do and what type of divorced folk you work with, as your experience is very different from stats published by a number of different sources, all of whom say that affairs end in divorce far less often than in reconciliation...i'm wondering if your "population" is folks dealing with a certain type of situation, etc. Just the researcher in me, I suppose. [This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited February 16, 2001).]

KAm6318:I work for a center who basically helps people who are separated, divorced, or widowed. My particular speciality is career counselor; helping those in need get back on their feet and be self sufficient. I am not talking about one night stands. I don't believe most people leave their spouse over a one night stand. If there is a series of one nighters, your spouse has a problem. Anyway, I am basing my statements on long term affairs. I have been doing this a long time; I quess it makes you a little jaded. My own babysitter's husband took off after 18 years...and married the OW. I am sure if you throw every affair in the pot; a one night stand to long term relationship with OP, the stats will be skewed a little. I don't know. [This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited February 16, 2001).]

Of course...you only see those who do get as far as separation or divorce...SO silly of me that I read right over that the first time. What I have read states that most affairs do not get as far as separation, so that makes sense. What it does suggest is that one separation occurs, chances for reconcialition do go down, which I would definitely believe from what I have seen.How great that you have a job where you can help people get back on their feet after something like that! That must be very rewarding to you...Kathi

REJECTED--Yes, what I wrote to discarded goes for you as well!!! I hate to see your screen name...you need a better one too!Hugs--Kathi

So I think that the stats that we all just trusted blindly don't apply to longterm affairs and separations. And this is what I think is misleading. I wish someone like this lady here would have told me that the chances were not good! It really took going to this group for me to realize that I wasn't some isolated 5% but probably the majority in terms of long term affairs ending with the H leaving for the OW.

Discarded,Almost all divorces after long term marriages involve an OP. I don't think that a huge number of post-50 women leave their H's for OP's - most of the female WS's seem to be younger. Almost all people who go to support groups are BS's, not WS's. It doesn't surprise me at all that all the women in your support group are women whose H's left them for an OP - I would be very surprised if any of them were divorced for any other reason, including their own affair. I don't think you can come to any conclusions about the chance of reconciliation based on that group.

discarded--Statistics are just averages, and may or may not have anythign to do with you. While the chances of reconcilition are somewhat lower once separation occurs, still a majority of tehse affairs do end and reconcilaiton occur. But that i s the group, not what happened to you or some the others here, so those statistics don't help you, I know. Please don't feel you were misled in reading them though, or that you wasted your time. You did what you could to preserve the marriage, and it is your H's failure that he did not do his part. If you had not tried, you would have a different set of regrets, you know?I'd be surprised if his new relationship lasts, but even if it does, it really doesnt reflect on you as much as it does on his effort or lack thereof. Don't let it get you down!

Caitie,Thanks for your thoughts. I need to remind myself more that I did what I did because it was the right thing to do. And even though I think the odds were stacked against me and I realize that now, if I think about it I don't regret having tried. Thanks for reminding me of that.Nellie,Every single divorced woman in this group and at the meeting where this was discussed there were 11 including me was divorced because of an OW and I don't remember exactly but I think eight or nine of them were married to the OW now. That is really part of the reason I stopped posting here. It really knocked me for a loop but it was also very uplifting. You see I had been struggling along assuming I was the part of some small minority of woman whose H left for the OW. It's not true! I know now I am not the minority. And just like me these women all know other women there age who had the same thing happen to them. Now when I go back and reread these boards I realize that it happens alot more than I thought or then I wanted to think. I think I grabbed onto the statistics I wanted to grab onto and there were some I read here that I really grabbed onto. This is where I am now. My husband has left me and is engaged to the OW and I am not alone or even some small percent in this and this is comforting to me. I believe it now. It happens alot more than people want to think.

Here are some more interesting facts about divorce. Only aprrox. 5% of marriages make it when reconciliation attempts are made after a long term affair. It is usually the BS who inititates the divorce. More times than not, the BS just can't forgive. Recently, our center offered a free workshop on forgiveness...we have a waiting list of over 100 people. Also, in respect to marriage counseling, believe it or not affairs are generally not the top problem; it is substance abuse. Those cases are truly sad because, in a way, the spouse with the problem can't find his or her way out. Many women stay in bad marriages not for love or spiritual convictions, but because of finances. I disagree that most long term marriages end in divorce because of an OP. I, for one, am not one of them and I was married 16 years. I am clearly not saying it doesn't happen...but divorce happens for many more reasons than just affairs. You would think that the first ten years would be the most vulnerable to a couple, but most of the folks that see come to see me had been married between 11 and 19 years. I believe that is what makes it so hard and so sad.[This message has been edited by Lonelysoul (edited February 17, 2001).]