I'm moving out - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I wanted you'all to know...there's not words to say how I feel or what's happening here. Last night was another night of fighting all night. I felt like I was kicked in the teeth and hit in the gut, so I didn't just "recover" automatically like he does. I took a minute to type on the forum last night--three posts I think--and when I came to bed, he ripped into me. Screaming and yelling and up and down all night. I called in sick to work today, and he has tried and tried and tried to convince me to stay home, but you know what? I can't do this anymore. I can't stand this rage all directed at me. I can't be up all night being yelled at! I'm a mess, I'm crying all over the place, I hate how I feel, and this is killing me, BUT I CAN NOT TAKE THIS RAGE ANYMORE. I wish he would have listened when I told him before that I needed to feel safe. I wish he wouldn't just make promise after promise and not back it up. I don't believe him at all. If I stay here, it will just be a day or two until we are right back here again, and it may not take THAT long. He doesn't get it. This is just step one in the dance: hearts and flowers. Promise anything to make her stay. Apologize and say "it will never happen again". Step two is when tensions build. Something starts to bother him, and he holds it in. Step three is the explosion. Screaming and yelling and raging--and it doesn't matter who it's at or what it does to them. Then step one again. This dance needs to stop. Something needs to be done to learn new steps, and this time, I can't "help" him. I'm the victim, I can't be beaten down and then "help" him--he has to help himself and I can't do it. God, I HATE this. Back to lotion tissues and coffee all night, I guess. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

CJ[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited July 24, 2001).]

CJ,I am soooo sorry. It is a little weird that I decided to check in today though - I just emailed jayhawk earlier and I wrote something to him that may be helpful to you at this time. It was about how everything does happen for a reason. To him I wrote that months ago he and I both posted here that we would do anything, anything whatsoever to save our marriages, right? But what if "anything" meant we needed to go through with a divorce for the marriage to eventually be saved. Talk about God asking for a leap of faith from both of us.Maybe this in a way applies to you - maybe right now you need to get away, not that I condone divorce, but at least a separation. You can't see or know God's plan - none of us can - we just have to have faith in Him. What may seem like total disaster may in fact be the darkest before the dawn. You have tried a lot of different things with your husband, maybe it is time to try this. So often time apart makes the heart grow stronger.Don't get me wrong CJ, I pray that you two are able to work things out. And I have been praying harder for you both over the past few weeks. But now maybe it is time for you to get away for a while on your own terms. .Maybe it is the best thing for both of you right now, while neither one of you may see it. The only thing sadder to me than divorce is separation, but maybe it is needed here.Know that I will be sending my thoughts and prayers for you both today and for the coming days.... Stay strong and try not to lose faith - faith in God.God Bless, Mike------------------ God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

[ August 08, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]

Please check with a lawyer before you do anything! Your moving out could have legal ramifications for custody/support if you do divorce in the future.Besides he's the one with the problem why doesn't he go? Anyway to do an inhouse separation?

{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}I wish I had words of encouragment right now... just know that you are in my thoughts & prayers, and I'm here if you need a shoulder...This was the hardest decission I had to make, and I'm sure it is for you as well... Today is the 2 year mark of the day I made this decission. The day I said enough was enough, and I had to get away from the pain and the anger, the rage and the hurt. You've been on my mind all day... I guess this is why. Don't jump in haste... make the decissions you must make, but make sure you make wise ones. Take KalGirl's advice and check out the legal rammifications before you move out. Again, I'm here if you need a shoulder....Dawnetta

CJ,I'm so sorry that it's come to this, but glad that you have decided not to tolerate unacceptable behavior any longer.I think that many, if not most marriages can be saved by the MB principles. At least a significant minority cannot, where one or both spouses have significant FOO or addiction or mental health issues. Saving the marriage at least may not occur unless these issues are addressed. Your H's issues may involve all three areas.I echo the advice about legal counsel.Some time ago, you realized that you had a problem with anger. You went through the pain and effort to deal with the issues underlying your anger. He has not. It's hard to tell, because affairs and a depleted lovebank can be behind a lot of anger, but when it doesn't seem to change despite your best efforts to Plan A then there seems to be a bigger problem. We've seen too much of this from him.I'm no expert, but I see him as what my wife, who came from a family of them, calls a rageaholic. I suspect that it is an addiction somewhat like alcohol or others. I don't think you need to go get a divorce right away, but before agreeing to reconcile he needs to commit to counseling and perhaps some sort of 12 step group (where is BR when you need advice on this sort of stuff [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

? ).CJ, you've really tried and done a terrific job. You deserve so much better than this, and I'm sure that in time you will have a much better life.We're all here for you.Steve[This message has been edited by StillHers (edited July 27, 2001).]

CJ,It pains me greatly to hear this... I do see a small silver lining in it [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

You had how many months of seperation before you tried to reconcile? Use the tools you learned during that time...Get back in touch with yourself again...Know that you are a warm caring loveable woman...Concider doing a Plan-B for your own sanity...If there is even a shred oh desire to stay married do this for yourself...You will find out in a short period of time if there is any hope whatever...If you find there isn't rest easy knowing you did all you could do...Before you do anything you must protect yourself on the legal end...Keep posting and replying...Much Love,Bill

My dearest CJ~Words can not express what I am feeling for you right now! I am so sorry! I truly hoped it would not come to this for you. I truly hoped that you would be the different one here and that things would work out for you like you had hoped.I wish that I had some great words of comfort to help you, but words seem to be hard to come by. I will state that things will work out for the best... not because this is what is best decision, but because of you. Because of your strength and the effort that I know you will put into it. YOU will make it work for the best.I will e-mail you more personally... but if you get this before I do... just know that you are loved and cared for. I am always here for you, and should the need arise, let me know and I can be there for you in person in 6 hours with kleenex and all the hugs you need.~Java

I am so sorry to hear about this too. I have always admired your determination to make it through and your dedication to changing things about yourself that you thought were contributing to the problems.I also think that you have finally reached the point where you just cannot tolerate his unacceptable behavior anymore.Is there anyway that you can convince him to move out? It really doesn't seem fair that you have to leave when he is the one not trying as he should and causing you so much pain.I'll be praying for you today.Jen

(((((((((CJ))))))))))You DESERVE a life of quality dear lady! My stomach turned when I read......."I can't stand this rage all directed at me. I can't be up all night being yelled at! I'm a mess, I'm crying all over the place, I hate how I feel, and this is killing me, BUT I CAN NOT TAKE THIS RAGE ANYMORE."..............because I truly share your pain! Been there, done that.....never again!God it hurts! His behavior has got to be affecting the children too. I wish I could be postive and cheer you on to save your marriage, I just can't. That job takes TWO and you are working alone. If indeed you feel compelled to move out, like others here have said, get legal council before doing so.You are thought of and you are in my prayers CJ. You are a truly wonderful person who happens to be in pain you haven't earned.(((((((((HUGS))))))))))GayleP.S. I'm also 6 hours away from you, if you need me I'll be there!

My friend, I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for you. You have been through so much and have fought so hard for your marriage. I believe that everything happens for a reason and right now, I think you deserve some happiness. I hate to see your fight end, but sometimes things must end before they can begin. As SoTired said in his post, we have been willing to do anything and everything it took to save our marriages and as silly as it may sound, maybe divorce is necessary?CJ, you have always been here for me and I’ll be here for you. If need to talk, you know where to find me. You just keep being strong and take care of yourself. No matter what the outcome here, you will survive and you should walk with pride, for you have given all that you had.You may only be 4’10”, but you are truly a giant in my eyes! [This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited July 25, 2001).]

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: LonelyAtNight ]

((((((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))))))Sweetie, moving out is drawing a big huge boundary to take care of yourself. No one, not even God, expects you to stay in a degrading situation like this. We do have similar situations....I can completely understand how you feel right now. I didn't want a divorce either, but I felt that I had to draw the lines, first by asking my H to move out, and later by starting the divorce process not once, but twice. At every stage, I prayed for WILLINGNESS to listen and to accept God's will for me. And I prayed for healing for my H, and for a change of his heart.As you already know, God's answers were more than a little confusing for me. I had to trust (which I don't really) and keep doing the next right thing to do, regardless. One day at a time - one moment at a time!!!My H tried this "recovery" thing with me too once before this. And you and I have almost identical stories to tell about their behavior and treatment of us during our supposed recovery. I finally had enough, and went for the divorce again.You know, I'm thinking....God wasn't done with me yet last Dec/Jan when my H asked for another chance. *I* wasn't in a place yet emotionally or spiritually that *I* could truly participate in a healthy marriage. *I* thought that I was ready...all of our problems where my H's fault - the drinking, the continuing lies, the repeated dates with other women....I made the BEST decision of my entire marriage (Ok, ask me if I still think this a year from now, but right now, this close to the situation, this is what it seems) when I went for my divorce a second time.The first time was about manipulation, anger, hurt and revenge - all sugar coated into "protecting myself". Oh I had real justification to do what I did....I wasn't wrong, but it wasn't RIGHT either...my motivation was not truly one of drawing a healthy boundary for myself.The second time around, when I realized that my H just wasn't doing what he needed to do, and Steve Harley told me that he could only recommend divorce....I did it to take care of me. I did it because I realized that I, as a member of the human race and as an individual loved by God, had a right to be treated with dignity and respect.And then I set about taking care of me, focusing on me, working on ME. Part of working on who I was involved my treatment of others, including my H. I *finally* truly let go of him.And THAT is when my relationship with my H truly turned around...slowly but surely, EVEN while he was with his OW.Your H, like mine, obviously still loves you. But he isn't ready to do what he needs to do to stay married. Part of the problem MAY be with you - just as part of the problem was STILL with me.Once my H saw me truly turn myself around (not that I hadn't been growing and changing before, but some how there was a real corner turned) - and he saw that unless he truly made changes with himself also that he was going to be divorced...and he began to feel the reality of divorce....that's when he wanted to try again. And you know what? I'm still scared to death, nervous and ready to run at the first SIGN of falseness on his part.BUT, this time IS different. He really IS making the changes, doing the action....Our first recovery was premature for BOTH of us.Now, I'm not saying, CJ, if you move out, he'll see the light and it will all be fixed....but what I am saying is that regardless, if you get yourself pulled together, you will be giving yourself the best possible chance to still save this marriage.You just can't do it under the same roof with him, I TOTALLY understand that.Just be very sure that if this does come down to divorce, that you are ready for it.If you are moving out simply to get his attention and to get him to realize that you are serious...then I'd have to say "Be cautious and rethink your motives."But as long as you are doing this for YOU, and not making this about trying to get him to do something, then you have all my hugs and support!!((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))I'm here, anytime you need me - you have my number...use it girl! ------------------ Pain is a given, misery is optional.

{{{{{{{CJI haven't got much to say that hasn't already been said by other people. Please do consult a lawyer before moving out, but if that's where the boundary needs to be drawn, so be it. I believe that separation almost saved my marriage; and who knows, maybe it will yet. I certainly don't believe that separation hurt my marriage.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000: CJ,I am soooo sorry. It is a little weird that I decided to check in today though - I just emailed jayhawk earlier and I wrote something to him that may be helpful to you at this time. It was about how everything does happen for a reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mike, just so you know, I still believe this. I think you checked in today of all days, because God knew I needed to hear from you. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>To him I wrote that months ago he and I both posted here that we would do anything, anything whatsoever to save our marriages, right?...Maybe this in a way applies to you - maybe right now you need to get away, not that I condone divorce, but at least a separation. You can't see or know God's plan - none of us can - we just have to have faith in Him. What may seem like total disaster may in fact be the darkest before the dawn. You have tried a lot of different things with your husband, maybe it is time to try this. So often time apart makes the heart grow stronger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I totally get this, Mike. Yes, it's true--I feel AWFUL and lonely and yucky and hurt about this--but I think that we may be a little better off apart right now. What I mean is that I am a grownup now, and I know that part of a healthy loving relationship is NOT one partner disrespecting another to the point of abuse. It is my job to say, "I deserve to be respected and I do not deserve to be raged at" or else I am just the other partner in the same old dance. In other words, if I let him yell, if I accept it, I am partly responsible because I'm taking it--I am dance partner #2. I feel really afraid that I will end up alone, but the fact of the matter is, I am letting myself down if I just take it "for the kids" or "to save the marriage" and that's just not healthy. I need to be away from him for awhile to get my own mental health in order, and my hope is that while we are apart, we can start to appreciate each other more and stuff. Of course, I also hope he will get some help with his anger, but he needs to pursue that, not me. Mike, I appreciate your thoughts and prayers, and I'll tell you what else I would GREATLY appreciate--lurk around the next couple a days. You're way ahead of me on how to deal with some of this. God, I never thought I'd end up living alone again, and that is so wierd. I'm SURE I'll need some advice over the next day or two!!{{{{{Mike}}}}} Thanks!! CJ ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Laura_lee and KalGrl, Thank you both for your thoughts and kind words and advice. Laura, I appreciate that you're standing in faith with me, because I get that concept--I call it standing in the gap. Unfortunately, this gap stander is getting pretty weary and needs a replacement gap stander for a while. There are darn few of us out there, so I've been standing for quite a while! I think God knows I need a break.KalGrl, I appreciate your advice about getting legal council, because I know you are just trying to look out for my best interests. However, the situation is a little bit "different" than most (yeah--they all are, right?). I have moved back into our old house that we haven't sold yet, which is about 10 blocks away from our new house. The new house is entirely in his name, his mortgage, AND he works out of the office in the house (self-employed), so it would be very confusing to have him move out. On the other hand, I am just 10 blocks away, and I am in a house that I still own, my mortgage, etc. Wierd, huh?Laura_lee, I'm sorry to say that I am not really very familiar with your story. What happened to you? How did you end up here? Write a new thread about you, when you have a minute, okay? Thanks again for all your support. I can not tell you how grateful I am. CJ ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Butterfly: This was the hardest decision I had to make, and I'm sure it is for you as well... Today is the 2 year mark of the day I made this decision. The day I said enough was enough, and I had to get away from the pain and the anger, the rage and the hurt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dawnetta, have I told you lately how much you mean to me? You are the best. And today, part of the reason that you are the best is because without saying a whole lot more, you know what I mean when I say that I just feel sick. Mostly heart sick, a little love sick, and definitely sick of the pain. I would do almost anything to stop feeling like this. (sigh) Well, I have one consolation--I won't be yelled at tonight! Yay!How about a big, warm, loving Dawnetta hug? Here's one for you! {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Dawnetta}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Love you, chick!CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Steve, and Bill, and Java, and Jen--Gosh, you guys. You have no idea how much you guys mean to me. I can't think of words big enough to say how much your replies and support mean to me, because English doesn't have words like that. Damn, we have been through thick and thin together, and here we are! I feel like I am surrounded by caring, loving people and I am so lucky--which is wierd, because I'm physically sitting here alone. Know what I mean? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I honestly figured you guys would say, "try this one last thing" or "have you thought of trying this or that?", and all I can say is that I KNEW, deep down I KNEW, that I could not be yelled at again until 3am and survive. It's sort of hard to describe, but I knew within my whole being that I did not deserve to be treated like that, and I would be letting myself down if I didn't stand up for myself. Maybe it just finally clicked within me that by letting him vent rage at me like that, I was actually participating. Anyway, like I told Mike (SoTired2000), please keep hanging around, because I know I'll need more advice and more support in the days to come. Geez, how did this happen to me? CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ragamuffin: You DESERVE a life of quality dear lady!...His behavior has got to be affecting the children too. I wish I could be postive and cheer you on to save your marriage, I just can't. That job takes TWO and you are working alone. ...You are thought of and you are in my prayers CJ. You are a truly wonderful person who happens to be in pain you haven't earned!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gayle!! God I'm crying!! You know what? It took me FOREVER to truly understand and believe that I was worth a mature, healthy, loving relationship!! I mean, it was almost like I had to tell myself over and over that I deserved it. I'll tell you a secret, Gayle. When people write me encouraging stuff on the forum, I often print it off and read it over and over again until I start to believe it--in my heart, not just in my head. Well, I'll get there one day, right? Thanks for your post, lady. BTW, I had no idea we were so close to each other. Your state seems like it's a whole state away (haha). Gee, if it's only six hours, I should take a weekend and come over to play! {{{{{{{{{{Gayle}}}}}}}}}}CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93: My friend, I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for you. You have been through so much and have fought so hard for your marriage. I believe that everything happens for a reason and right now, I think you deserve some happiness. ...CJ, you have always been here for me and I’ll be here for you. If need to talk, you know where to find me. You just keep being strong and take care of yourself. No matter what the outcome here, you will survive and you should walk with pride, for you have given all that you had. ...You may only be 4’10”, but you are truly a giant in my eyes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gosh, I don't know what to say. You are one of my best friends and hearing these words from you makes me feel vaklempt. Maybe it's left over vaklempt from Ragamuffin's post, but I'm vaklempt nonetheless. I'm not kidding, I'm speechless. Could we just hug, in a totally friendly way, of course? {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jayhawk}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} CJP.S. July 25, 2001. Write it on a calendar: "CJ is touched so deeply she's speechless" because it will never happen again. I can ALWAYS think of something to say!------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife: I honestly figured you guys would say, "try this one last thing" or "have you thought of trying this or that?", and all I can say is that I KNEW, deep down I KNEW, that I could not be yelled at again until 3am and survive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that's pretty clear, and I'm SO GLAD that you're not going to stay and take it anymore.Remember how the last time he thought you were moving on he got serious about reconciling? Rageaholics in my experience will be very destructive and then a short time later expect everything to be back to normal. I think there's a good chance he will try to get you to move right back in. This time, before you do so, I would recommend that you require not just an agreement to do certain things but actions on his part before moving back. That is if you do remain open to trying again, as I think you are under the right circumstances. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Anyway, like I told Mike (SoTired2000), please keep hanging around, because I know I'll need more advice and more support in the days to come. Geez, how did this happen to me? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I know the feeling--my life hasn't exactly followed the script I would have written either. You can bet we will stick around.Up late as usual,Steve

Soul Sis! Yay! I knew you'd write. I have to be honest with you, you wrote so much, I won't be able to respond to it all until tomorrow--so give me a break, okay? But I wanted you to know that I am thinking about what you said and I am SO GLAD you wrote. I have one very quick comment about one line you wrote: "...as long as you are doing this for YOU, and not making this about trying to get him to do something, then you have all my hugs and support!!" Please don't take this wrong, but that made me laugh (as in giggle). Wouldn't I be a manipulative little twit if I moved out just to try to get him to do something? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

No, seriously!! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Okay, just so you know, I am out because I am a precious, valuable child of God who does not deserve to be yelled at all night. I finally figured out that if I stay, I am dancing with him. Hey, for all I know he may continue to dance for a while--and I bet he will try to get me to dance again--but I finally realized that there were TWO people dancing here and I was one of them!! Yes, in my heart I hope he will stop dancing, but it's not my job to "make" him stop. I can't do that. BUT (and this is a big butt) (haha) I CAN STOP DANCING!!! ME!!! Like I told Ragamuffin, it took me FOREVER to really understand, inside myself, that I am worthy of being treated decently and respectfully and kindly and lovingly and maturely AND SAFELY!! I'm not being demanding. I'm just starting to get the picture--I have some worth. So, I'll write more to you later. I love you!CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume: {{{{{{{CJ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Please don't take this wrong, but your halfway, lopsided hugs mean more to me than you will ever know, because I know you don't just hand them out left and right. No need to say more...it means a LOT to me. Thanks. CJ ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ, I'm glad that you are touched and speechless (for once!), but giant or no giant, come football season....your a$$ is grass and I'm the lawnmower baby!Never doubt a Jayhawk Chief! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Hi Faithful Wife,I don't think I've posted to you before, but I wanted to let you know that your post touched me, and that I'm thinking about you.I'll keep you in my prayers and hope that all works out the way you would like it to.love and hugsJo

Jayhawk, you are one of my best buddies, and you know why? Because "your a$$ is grass and I'm the lawnmower, baby"!! The Broncos head to training camp next week, and I am counting the hours until that first preseason game (approximately 396 hours, BTW!). The Chefs play the might Broncos on Sunday, October 7th at 2:05pm, and I have the tickets!! BRING IT ON, LAWNMOWER MAN!!CJ ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((CJ))))))))))))))))))))))))))I have no words to tell you how sorry I am that you have had to endure this kind of treatment. Never should anyone have to endure that. Never should anyone behave in that way. You are dear and special to many others here and very dear and special to me. Not to mention the utmost love the Father has for you. I pray that you will have peace and healing. I am so grateful that you had a home to which you could go. Are the children with you? I hope that you will have the time and space for healing and for strength gathering before you are faced with making any more decisions. I love you and hope all is well. You posted this thread after I left the office and I was not in yesterday. I would have sent you the hug and love earlier if possible.Take care of yourself and remember that the Ambassador is not to slack off on executing the expected duties of the office.

{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}I'm so sorry Cindy. I know how long, and how hard you fought to save this. I have constantly been amazed at your strength this past year, and then some. If there is ANYONE who could have made it work, I would have sworn it would have been you, but I think it's impossible for anyone to save a marriage on their own.I'm wishing you peace and healing. You are a terrific lady and it saddens me that he cannot see that and put forth the tiny bit of effort it would have taken on his part to have made this work.You are in my thoughts and prayers CJ.your buddy...------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again