Religion and this forum - Marriage Builders® Forums

I am quite disturbed lately by all of the religiouse comments here on this forum. I really wonder how bad some people feel here that do not practice christianity but do practice other religions. Why can't opinions be given without having to bring up religion. We all have our beliefs, and I for one do not feel that I come here to be preached to.

I know I am going to be flagged for this and I am a christian but we are not missionarys here.

Hi Jilly,

I couldn't agree with you more. There have been a number of comments here purporting to be based on religeon that really seem to miss the point of why we are all here.

One way or another, all of us here have been hurt and been broken. We come here to share our experience and strength to heal. It really isn't a good place for proselytizing.

And frankly, I seriously question the some of the motives, the judgments, and the interpretations or rather misinterpretations that have been posted here. We need to support each other.

It is better not to know so many things than to know so many things that are not so. ....... You're a Good Man Charley Brown

Double posted in error

It is better not to know so many things than to know so many things that are not so. ....... You're a Good Man Charley Brown

[ September 09, 2003, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Bumperii ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Why can't opinions be given without having to bring up religion. <hr /></blockquote>I'd been wondering the same thing!

Jilly, congrat's on your engagement also your marriage Bumper! Looks like we have us a reunion going here!

Peace! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just a thought... but Infidelity, Adultery... these are all terms based in religion. The U.S. and hence the law of many of our states have adopted these terms... and to be quite bluntly honest, if I wasn't a religious person in this day and age, I don't know that I wouldn't have just moved in with my girlfriend and never married her at all. Just my opinion, but this website has a strong christian influence.

Everyone is going to approach this from whatever their own religious beliefs are. I would love for a Buddhist to hop on here and be all "I'm really struggling with X." because it would probably be similar to the issues we all have and are dealing with... but the Buddhist slant would make it different. Then, we'd have a thread that had a Buddhist slant. It'd be way cool.

Speaking for myself only, I find it difficult to opine about moral or psychological matters without bringing up "religion" because my faith is integral to both my sense of morality and my psychology. My intent when speaking about faith matters is not to proselytize, but rather to express where I am coming from.

I recognize that my opinions may be pretty much worthless to someone who does not share the foundation on which I build my views, but I don't think trying to hide the foundation is going to change that reality.

I agree with (most) of what has been posted.
Yes, let's DO leave religion out of this.
Yes, I would like to see another Faith's slant on this.
Yes, I would NOT like to be preached to either.
No, I see nothing wrong with a simple statement like, 'God has helped me thru this difficult time and I trust in Him.'
Anything else would be shoving it down your throat.
No flames, please, this is only MHO.
Peace to all here.
Harold

Well, contrary to popular opinion (on this thread), I believe the Harleys are "Christian" - and that their MB principles are based on biblical philosophy. The reason )I believe) that it isn't "shoved down anyone's throat" is precisely b/c of what Jilly said: Many who post here would be offended to know that they are following Judea-Christian ethics and morals!

I whole-heartedly agree with Gnomme, tho. My relationship with my Lord and Savior is important to me, and it would impossible to talk about how the failings of my M could have been waded through without talking about my Lord, how He held me up, led me, comforted me, and speaks to me daily about how to proceed.

I DO try NOT to offend, or "offer" such discussions where they are not welcomed, however. I just believe God can handle all His creation by Himself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Congrats to all those who have found love again, and are ready to get on with their lives!

God Bless,

I find it odd that religious talk is "disturbing" to Christians. I DO find it disturbing to try to force an opinion on someone, but I pretty much have a relationship with Jesus and not a religion. So I am talking about my life and my Christianity from a "relational" standpoint.
I don't expect even Christians do agree- we all have things we differ on, but the bottom line is, without my Christian foundation, I would not make decisions that I make and do things that I do. Because of my love for Christ, I choose to TRY to live as Christ would want me to live, following His will. So why do I need to hide that? I don't bring my Christianity into every discussion, but remember, if someone asks us about our hope, we are to tell them as Christians where that hope comes from. All over this forum are hurting people, looking for answers, looking for a way to feel better. All I know to tell them that works completely for me is prayer, and faith.

Oh and I do believe we are ALL missionaries...wherever we are by our actions and words.

[ September 09, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]

I am not saying that one cannot bring up ones faith in God ect. It is the Bible thumping, scripture quoting, finger pointing I am speaking of.

I do not feel however that morals and religion always follow the same path. I know moral good people who would not be "christians" in some peoples mind.I also know many people who brag on their christianity and beliefs who by some standards are not moral people. There are many examples of this in history ,US history for that example. Most slave owners before the civil war thought of themselves as Christians. Went to church, were civil leaders ect but would go home and have their slaves beat, sell their children ect.
Manifest destiny another example. It was the white peoples right to take the indian lands from them as they were just savages.
This was the belief of most of the people "God fearing Christians" of the time.
More recently,
Hitler is another example: He killed 1000's in the name of God.
Priests who abuse children
The segragation of the blacks in the early and mid 20th century, yes in most of our lifetimes.
I have just come to believe that we are a nation of hypocrites at times so please be careful and considerate of what opinions regarding religion you make. It may come back to bite you some day.

Jill

[ September 09, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: jillybean36 ]

Steve Harley has himself posted on the forums that this is not a "Christian" website. It is a site for anyone trying to save their marriage or make their existing marriage better.

The principles are not necessarily christianity-based...they are based on life, love and respect.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mitzi you said it all!!!

Hi Jill! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just wanted to let everyone know that although the Harley's are Christians, that's not what the forums are about. This is not the place to be judged by what your beliefs are. This is a place for support, advice, criticism and friendship.

I do believe in God and marriage. Have I been perfect? Nope! I went out with another man a few weeks before my divorce was final. We had been to court but it wasn't filed in the courts yet. I had been separated almost a year but that's no excuse. I thought I was ready but in the end I realized that I wasn't. Plus I lived with my new husband for 3 months before I married him.

Ok, I'm just rambling now! LOL

The religion issue has been discussed over and over here. This is one point where people are going to get into heated discussions. Will it ever stop? Probably not

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mitzi,

I know that this topic is always a hot one. I have been here for along time off and on. I used to be "Crazy or What" and I registered in 1999.

I just think sometimes it gets out of hand and needs to be brought up once and awhile. We do not all believe the same and I think some of the religouse talk makes some people uncomfortable.

I'm glad you are doing well and are happy with your new marriage.

Jill

Thank you Jill for posting this.

Jo

Jill,

I remembered that you were around for a while. Actually, I think you may have posted some on the MEGA-THREAD. Am I right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that my relationship with God is a personal thing. That just because someone doesn't care to continue to SUBMIT to unrighteous domination and abuse, that h*llfire and brimstone is going to rain down on their head because they take measures to protect themselves and their children.

We don't all interpret scripture the same way. And telling someone to get on their knees and beg God's forgiveness for divorcing in an abusive situation (and infidelity is abusive to the soul) should consider the words given to the hypocrits who condemned Jesus for sitting down to eat with "publicans and sinners".

I'd just like to see a little more respect shown that we don't all believe or accept the fire-and-brimstone God.

yep,

Been around since August 4th 1999 d-day#1.

I posted until about summer of 2001. I was divorced by then and to read everyones posts were to painful.

I've started posting more again the last few months. Kind of continual healing on my part. I think a person spends a lifetime healing from divorce even if you are in a good relationship.

Nice to talk to you again.

Jill <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I, too, can agree with some of the strong, christianese on the forum. Many do come on strong and can use the Bible and God in a distruptive, distorted way....BUT I just shake it off and don't read what I don't need. Take what you need and throw the rest away. This forum attracts alot of Christians and Christians have FREEDOM of SPEECH.

I am a Christian and my hope, faith and love is drawn from God through my total reliance on Jesus Christ. No one will ever stop me from expressing that belief and I will never try to stop someone from expressing their belief.

This is why I find this forum so refreshing----the freedom of speech, feelings and ideas. I have to accept daily many things in this world that make me uncomfortable but that is the cost of freedom. Why can one religion have freedom and not another?

TW

I guess this is what I don't understand. A man claiming to be a Christian (I'm not saying he's not, I really believe he is) is looking for opinions to his post. I'm assuming he is looking for Christian opinions.

He is given opinions with scripture to back up those opinions. Because if we have an opinion; as far as Christians are concerned; we are supposed back it up with the Word of God. Where is the error in that? And why are those who aren't Christian offended by the use of scripture directed to another Christian and not at them?

My goodness, I'm not offended by people that use a world view of marriage or truth or anything, because it doesn't effect me or my salvation one bit; and it certaily doesn't make God any less God.

But if see a "Christain Brother/Sister" doing something against God's Word and don't say anything about it, then I will have to answer to God and tell Him why I didn't try to win my them back. I believe that God would want me to use the studies I've done and learn from, so others that haven't walked my path can learn as well.

God is a God of compassion, grace, forgivness and redemption , it is His gift to us all. But we have trouble seeing that gift if we don't understand His heart. He only wants what is best for us and has given us His Word (Jesus Christ) as a guide to a fulfilling life with Him. He knows why following His commands are good for us. He knows that dating while still married can cause some serious problems for us. He gives us the right to divorce, but tells us not to commit adultery. Ok someone may be miserable for the year they wait before they can divorce. That may be the consequence of not thinking through the decision to get married in the first place. Maybe God did have better plans for them, but they thought they knew better than God and married someone else. There are natural consequences to every decision we make. If we make choices that are within God's will the consequences are good. If we make choices that are out of God's will the consequences are not so good. Either way, we have to live with them. (And yes, I do believe that goes for the non Christian as well; I'm sorry if that offends anyone, I really am).

I never want to offend anyone. But sometimes the word of God is just like your bedroom light that's turned on in the middle of the night. It hurts and seems offesive at first, but once you understand what it is for, then you understand. And I guess I have a problem with the Christians that are shown scripture and immediately but blinders over their eyes because the light hurt at first. I hope it shows I really care about them. If I didn't care I'd never post.

I'm sorry if I high jacked this thread. I just thought it was relevent.

Submitted and hopefully received in Christ's love.

S&C

[ September 09, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]

Dear All:

I think this is a great discussion and very relevant. "All" should be welcome in this forum, because people of all faiths (and also those with no faith at all) can have marital problems.

Can`t we just draw a line in the sand regarding "evangelism". No one wants to be sold to here. We all must have the right to say how we feel, but it is not right to sell our particular brand of religion to others.

If we could just use alternate more inclusive words: i.e.,

not Christianity, but spirituality
not God, but spiritual Power
not Jesus, but spiritual Friend,

etc. etc. I hope you know what I mean.

Let`s be as inclusive as possible and be of help to "all" who need it. Shouldn`t our goal should be to build marriages rather than to evangelize.

Standing in Finland

Don't get me wrong I am not against religion in anyway. I am just against people making others feel less than good because perhaps they have different backgrounds ect.

I believe that faith is very strong for some people and that is a good thing. I have worked in long term care for the past 24 years. I have sat by the bedside of many people and watched them take their last breath. Some towards the end look up and start whispering to someone the rest of us can't see.I believe its angels coming to get them or perhaps loved ones. My strongest memorey was one night I was sitting by a dying paitent. He was still conscience and I knew he was scared. His kids were not there yet and I knew he needed comfort. I asked him if I could read from the bible. I read the 23 psalm and we said the lords prayer together. He looked at me held my hand and whispered "thankyou". His eyes then rolled back and he died a short time later. I never felt such spirituality then I did at that moment. I know that God is there, I just feel that he, like I do with my kids wants us to make the best choices for us. the ones that fulfill us and makes us happy. We like my children all make mistakes but God, like I do with my children, will love us all no matter what mistakes we may make in our short time here on earth. I feel that if you are a good, caring, loving person who trys to treat everyone and everything with respect and dignity, then God will open you with open arms into heaven.

[ September 10, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: jillybean36 ]

Issue noted, and I will pray about it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I feel that if you are a good, caring, loving person who trys to treat everyone and everything with respect and dignity, then God will open you with open arms into heaven.
<hr /></blockquote>Jilly---you just opened a can of worms. It is very hard for a Christian to hear that knowing that Jesus died a horrible death to pay for our sins. If you don't want to talk about religious things than why would you make a judgment like this?

According to my Higher Power, who I choose to call Jesus, this is contrary to what He says. Jesus claims to be the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one can come to the Father except thru Him. He claims many more things also that totally contradict what you just stated above. Either Jesus was a whacko or God and this is something we all have to come to grips with, BIG TIME!!!!

TW

jillybean

Thanks for bringing this up. Not that it's going to change anything, but thank you anyway.

I get tired of reading the printed scripture. So, I just skip over it. If I wanted to read about scripture I could join a religious site. Or, just stay here. lol

I think some go way overboard, imo. Because to me all of the answer's are not in the bible as some seem to believe.

This site is for one and all, not just christians. That's not a slam either. But not everyone on here is Christian and the Harley's don't only sell their wares to Christians. You can live thru the bible if you wish, but, because someone else doesn't choose to live that way, does not make them immoral or any less of a person.

I also read at other sites and this web site is constantly ridiculed about the amount of "bible pushing". It is overwhelming at times.

As the resident infidel (in the religious sense) on these forums, I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one...

Recently, I felt very unwelcome at MB, in large part due to the over-abundance of proselytizing.

I almost left MB altogether, but changed my mind due to the respectful attitudes of some of the more obviously Christian posters here.

There was even a thread dedicated to the views of secular humanist/agnostic/atheists like myself and how they relate to marriage and morality.

That said, these forums must seem (at first glance) to be overwhelmingly Christian to an outside observer...at least lately. I know that had I happened upon the MB forums now (as opposed to 3 years ago), I never would have bothered to get involved, dismissing it as a Christian site where non-believers like me were not welcome.

As with any post -- you take from it what you can use and leave the rest behind.

I for one would NEVER had made it through this mess without God. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi Jill, hi CJack,

I would like to post more here, but sometimes I am a little hesitant, becasue while I am a Christen, I feel like my negative feelings will be picked on becasue I am not perfect and God like.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I would like to post more here, but sometimes I am a little hesitant, becasue while I am a Christen, I feel like my negative feelings will be picked on becasue I am not perfect and God like. <hr /></blockquote>But that's just it!!! YOU don't have to be perfect and God like. Don't feel that way. Be yourself and love yourself.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lora:
Hi Jill, hi CJack,

I would like to post more here, but sometimes I am a little hesitant, becasue while I am a Christen, I feel like my negative feelings will be picked on becasue I am not perfect and God like.<hr /></blockquote>None of us are perfect. We all fall short of the glory of God. That is why He died on the cross for us- we ALL have negative feelings. Expressing them so you can move on is a GOOD thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by adgirl48:
None of us are perfect. We all fall short of the glory of God. That is why He died on the cross for us- we ALL have negative feelings. Expressing them so you can move on is a GOOD thing.<hr /></blockquote>In the spirit of this thread, allow me to present a non-sectarian version of your post:

None of us are perfect. We ALL have negative feelings. Expressing them so you can move on is a GOOD thing.

See how that works?

Cjack:
See how that works?

I see, and I respect your freedom of choosing your religion and to believe or to not believe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ September 10, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]