Custody and other issues - Marriage Builders® Forums

For two months now, my TBX and I have had a schedule. He has the girls overnight every Tuesday and Thursday and every other weekend, though this is arranged around which weekends he wants to do Book Shows and Antique shows.

Unfortunately, he just assumed he'd have the girls tonight (Wed.) because he was gone last week from Wednesday through Monday and would be leaving Friday morning this week.

I agreed he could have the kids this night, but insisted on having a weekday schedule set in stone for the kids. TBX wants the odd extra night based whenever he has to be out of town two weekends in a row. I said no.

Here are my reasons why the weeknight scheudle needs to be set in stone:
1. The kids need stability and predictability. School counselor and other professionals have backed me up on this.
2. The kids don't brush teeth at Dad's house.
3. The kids have willy-nilly bed times at Dad's house.
4. Having set days allows me to schedule their lessons for days I have them.

TBX finally agreed to a schedule after telling me I only cared about myself and that if I were really concerned about the kids I'd find a way to live with him.

I completely lost it. I mean screaming lost it on that one. I screamed that because of concern for the kids I stuck it out and survived all those miserable years when he refused to go to counseling. And if he was so all fired concerned, maybe he should have tried harder earlier on and we wouldn't be here.

I did apologize for losing my tempter, but not for the words I said. Those are true words. It is not my fault he never took my unhappiness seriously, that he never thought about what he stood to lose if our marriage failed. I thought about his happiness and what I stood to lose and what the kids stood to lose.

When I calmed down, I told him that if I could have changed enough to live with him, I would have. But, I couldn't. And while divorce was not best for the children, it was better than the alternative which was one of us dead. I finally told B. if we'd continued to live together, one of us would be dead.

He kept saying I was exaggerating! At last, I told him the story about how I wanted to cave his skull in with the frying pan one morning. He wanted to know why! I'm not sure he really believed me when I said that I had so much anger, frustration, resentment and hatred built up.

Back to the custody. Now, B. wants the whole thing set in stone, even the weekends. Those weekends he is planning to be out of town, he'll take the kids with him or have his sister-in-law watch them. He won't agree to first right of refusal.

And then, he's mad and hurt when I won't make discuss my job search or spend time with him! This whole schedule thing has taken up 3 precious hours when I should have been working on a freelance assignement.

Oh, and here's the best: The girls schedule should be designed around his shows and auctions. But, I'm selfish for wanting to know what their schedule will be so taht I can make plans for myself.

I don't think TBX is a nice person.

You knew it was eventually going to get to a fight about this. He doesn't think the way you do, and doesn't seek out experts.

I suggest going to a mediator. They seem to be reasonable people and will likely shut him down with his changing demands.

And if he really brings up his refusal to agree to the Right of First Refusal (ROFR), they will seem him as rigid and uncompromising and will likely limit his parenting time. You have been very accomodating to date.
The ROFR is very standard. If the kids can't be with one parent, they are best with the other before an outsider - even family.

Time to play hardball and put him in reality now.
He hasn't appreciated your schedule modifications to date, so he doesnt' see the disruptions in the kids lives or yours.
An occasional overnight with auntie isn't bad, but the other parent is the primary backup. Hands down.

My X has never taken my kids on ROFR, and I need to get a babysitter overnight to care for them. His loss, and he doesn't realize the message he's sending the kids.

Uggh. More ****, different day.

Off topic - Count your blessings. A friend's house caught on fire on Sat. severe damage - thankfully no one that you've met. Another divorced person.

Newly, I'm sorry to hear about the house.

Good idea about the mediator. If it comes to a custody battle, I'm pulling out all stops.

You know, plenty of bookdealers find ways to minize the nunber of shows they do. Including having a shop which they keep open during regular hours and placing books for sale on line.

Successful businesses are built through hard work. Just doing a whole lot of what you enjoy, like going to auctions, other book stores and book shows, is not "Hard Work." Hard work is doing stuff that you don't particularly enjoy, but which needs to get done.

Speaking of which.... My freelance work awaits.
My cards will be ready soon. I'm sending them to you!

"TBX finally agreed to a schedule after telling me I only cared about myself and that if I were really concerned about the kids I'd find a way to live with him."

Well he sure knows how to push your buttons, doesen't he? All I can say is that you need to respond, not react. He will never be sorry for his actions, so you might as well not worry about his opinions.

My suggestion is to simply ignore these comments, or just say, "That might be so, but we are going to have a set schedule anyway." Just let this go in one ear & out the other. Don't let him have any control over your emotions.

The X's do what they want and what is their priority.

It's better to work smart than to work hard. I know my X worked hard, but his business would have been much more profitable had he worked smart. And he likely would have had more time with his family. Hmmm! They are peas in a pod - in some ways.

And someone's right. Respond, don't react.

GG Sometimes I wonder if you are almost as accomadating to TBX as I am with mine.

You've stood your ground before and got most of your basement back for it. Stand you ground again and make sure that your kids have the stability they need.

So A frying pan huh? Sounds like that was an interesting breakfast.

"Would you like your skull bashed in with your bacon dear"

Maybe! Hey, Wish, does your wife understand the finances? Have you gone over budgets, income, payables, etc? I can't imagine she wouldn't be searching aggressively for paying work if she had a clue. If I were her, I'd be scared you-know-what-less. She has no plan. What a mess.

GG,

Oh my gosh are you living my life or what? Your H sounds the same as mine. H acts and is doing the exact same thing to me with our kids. Only he says that I am using our kids!! Go Figure! What the hack do they want, I think they want control and like WIWH said my H controls my emotions by knowing what buttons to push. I am trying not to react to him, but it is hard. I am learning to respond to him instead of reacting.

Question for each of you: I have had to get a restraining order against my H so he can't come to our house or anywhere else that we are present. We go to court for it on DEC. 1, because he is fighting it. my son's 3rd birthday in two weeks and I am planning on having it at home as usual, but I am feeling guilty about not being able to invite my h, and he is pouring it on thick. Why do we feel guilty when he has put us in this situation? I am not going to violate the RO, but why do I feel bad for him. He left us for someone else!

Why do they all seem to try and control us? What do they get out of it?

JT

PS - My H is also mad because he has only two visits a week with the kids and only for 1 1/2 hour. I was accomodating to him because this is the days and times that he told the judge he could see them, so why be mad at me. Because I sttod up for myself? GG - your H is exactly the same breed of dog as my H!!

Do they ever learn that they should spend more time with these children or is work always the priority here! I don't think my H will ever get it, but if he ever does it won't be untl after he has lost us for good!

[ November 03, 2004, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]

JT, one thing I do is realize that B. is just manipulating me when he calls me selfish or claims that I should stay with him for the kids. It's also a control thing. When we were together, B. never liked me to do anything without him, even when he was traveling! And the two times I had a Girls Night Out with a married friend and my sister, he picked a fight with me.

Now, I find if I go out with friends or do something when he has the girls, he suddenly adds shows on the weekends.

There are some differences though. Mine didn't have an affair. At least that I know about. Mine doesn't put work first, unless it's fun work like going to auctions. And mine has a lot more time with the girls.

About the guilt... here are some ideas about why you may feel guilty. Because you want your 3 year old to enjoy birthday with Daddy. Because you married the jerk to start with. Because STBX manipulates you. Because you have a kind heart and don't want anyone to be disappointed. Because you're not the martyred saint your STBX wanted in a "wife" while he enjoyed a luscious, caprious, exacting mistress given to fits of jealousy. (I don't know OW. Just guessing here.)Did I mention because he is trying to make you feel guilty so you'll back done?

Now, why do you have an RO? Has he been threatening? Or does he just tresspass? I'm embarassed to admit what I allow TBX get away with.

GG, you can add that he calls you up angry when you were out with me. I could hear the guilt he was trying to lay on you. Control, control, control.
Life on the other side of that guilt and control is very relaxed.

greengables,

I have a RO because believe it or not when I was trying to make my M work ( me doing the work I must add) I allowed him to still have keys to the house even though he was living with his pregnant OW. He came and went as he pleased until on day I got fed up and changed the locks and then the Shyte hit the fan!!! he exploded and started threatening me and even tried to break in the house while me and the kids were home. So I had to do something! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I love him and am feeling these things just as you say, but I know that this is the only way for me to go on with my life. Plus he acts like he is the victim here! He claims all of this is my fault! He is definately a manipulator!

JT

Hey, JT, the good news is that if your H keeps behaving like a victim, and a jerk, you'll quickly wonder what you ever saw in him in the first place.

If three year old wants Daddy at birthday party, you might want to consider a party at an indoor playground, the YMCA, or some other neutral territory. But only do it if he'd leave OW behind and everyone's family can act civilly.

Greengables,

Hi! he is still being the jerk that he is and I often wonder that very same ? Luckily my H does not disrespect our family with bringing her around, in fact no one even knows of her or the baby. He has not or will not ( so he says ) disrespect our children by bringing anyone in front of them that is not their mother. Our kids are to young to even realize that daddy is no longer in the home.

I have out in a call to my lawyer on the public place because I want to make sure that this does not hurt my case of my RO ( he's fighting it).
I don't want to hurt my son by not having his father their. He loves his daddy very much and I do not ever or will never discourage that or talk down to him about his dad.

So now what?
Hey he claims that he s trying to get back with me but I am unforgiving? Can you imagine that?
What a Crock? or better yet WTF?????????

SORRY,

JT

GG,

No I don't think she has a clue and I'll leave it at that.

I realy can't believe what you and JT deal with.

It gives us XH's a bad name.

How can any self respecting man ever treat any woman or child in such a way.

These guy's need to grow up and get a life.

OMG Maybe I'm turning into an XW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

greengables - Don't buy into any of his guilt tactics. Sounds like WS is still not fully accepting responsibility for fis actions that led to breakdown of your M. Like yourself I am always astounded how the universe has to revolve around some WS's. If you truly have the best interest of you children at heart (this is not a question) then you have nothing to feel guilty about.
If you feel that it's appropriate to fit in with his requests, then great, otherwise he can talk to the hand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's hard not to get angry with WS's sometimes, but I wonder if causing a fight isn't a tactic that "some" WS's employ to justify their actions in the first place. i.e. yeah he/she always get's angry, thats why I.... (I'll qualify that statement by saying that my WS has on occassions employed this tactic with great success on me).

Take care..

[ November 03, 2004, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]

RM, only one thing. My H. is not wayward. There was no affair. Just some exploring of escort services online, no sex, no respect, a basement full of his inventory, and Situation X. I can't discuss x with anyone who isn't "privledged." In others, my shrink, my lawyer and my priest. LOL. Oh, I forgot, there was the bloody New York Times. H. had to read the NYT every morning. Including Sunday for hours while I did house work. And then, there was a general disregard for my feelings all together. And how I had to ask for money every month so I could pay our household bills. I was always asked how much I need and by when. Thus, he only gave me the amount to cover the gap between my salary and our expenses. Once, I tried to cut way back on spending so we could save. Did we save? No. H. just took all that money and put it into his business.

I think that's one reason he can pull my strings and make me feel guilty. It was only a huge pile of little things, nothing huge and tangible like an affair. Cerri and others say he was abusive. I was scared once or twice when he followed me around yelling at me, and even unlocked the bath room to continue. But, I'm just not sure it rises to the level of abuse.

GG - Thanks for putting me straight and I respect your privacy so no need to explain anything you are not comfortable with.

I don't want to fan the flames as it were, but it sounds as some form of emotional abuse could be what has occurred.

Control and constant critisism are two of the most common types of abusive behaviour. Chance are that you (like myself) may also have unwittingly been guilty of / responsible for this type of behaviour. Not pointing fingers, just stating how easy this type of thing is to do without realising it.

I read an excellent book on this by a lady called Beverly Engel (The emotionally abusive relationship". Please read the preview via the link below
The Emotionally Abusive Relationship : How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing

Whilst there are a lot of things listed in the book that are classed as "emotional abuse" (EA)which I don't necessarily consider as such, the book is very informative and helpful in understanding what occurs as a result of this type of relationship.

What most people don't realise is that EA can be much more devestating that physical abuse, and as a parent it's also a very good read.

Take care R-Man...

Ren-Man, are you suggesting I was abusive? Or abused? I'm not quite sure.

For a while I nagged him pretty regularly to take care of situation X (a legal situation) and the increasing inventory taking over everything. The distance between us increased even more.

Then I found the book The Surrendered Wife. I started following it. No head way. Then I found MB. And here I am, 3 years later!!!!

Now, a question for you. don't answer if you don't want to. Why Renaisance Man? I figure either you are a poet, scientist, muscician, etc all rolled into one, or you do reenactments.

[ November 04, 2004, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: greengables ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> OMG Maybe I'm turning into an XW <hr /></blockquote>No, you are becoming an X, and your comments show that you are recovering. Great job.

R-Man & WIWH,

Thanks, but I think you might have been talking about me not GG. My H is the one who had the affair and baby. I was totally being disrespected and still I continued to try and make the marriage work using these principles. to no avail - it simply did not matter. He just continued to do whatever he wanted to do. He claims that he is willing to come home and be faithful if I were to give us another try: but hey, I think after a year of being out of the house and me doing all that I could - I have done enough.

What do you think? I don't think he'll ever change because he still does nothing but blame me for his affair? Imagine that? He does not even take the initiative to change his behavior. He wants to reconcile but guess what he still lives with this woman!

He is not even on time with his child support. he is two months behind as of Nov. 15. This is rediculous! but hey I am not a victim anymore! He is also verbally abusive especially when he does not get his way or when he thinks I am not doing what he wants me to do.

Tell me this is this a stable man who always says that I, pushed him out to have the affair? Okay I had some problems that I did contribute to the marriage but nothing of this magnitude. What man would tell his wife that he is living with his pregnant lover because "he is trying to be a man and handle his responsibilities with the girl"!

WTF??????? When your W found out about the A - puts H out and he immediately goes and lives with pregnant OW and her three kids!!
Leaving his wife and his three biological kids at home. I am sorry I do not mean to go on about because I am still in shock even after this year, but I am moving forward. I can't get past this because he calls begging daily, yet does nothing to even prove that he could be in the right direction, and to top it off gets violently angry when I do no coperate or when I don't answer his calls, or when he can not reach me.

This is not healthy for me or my children and I can not make him see that this is all of his own doing. He has now lost the only family that he has ever known.

R-man I agree with you I am and have been in an emotionally abusive relationship.

WIWH - I agree with you he gives all the good men a BAD NAME! and if you were to see him no one would ever believe that he is like this or could even be capable of it ( but his father was & now so is he)!!

Thanks you for being such caring men we need more of them in this world ( women too )!!

I'm sorry for the long vent I needed it because he called last nioght with the same old stupid stuff.

JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ November 04, 2004, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]

GG

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> no sex, no respect <hr /></blockquote>HMmmmmm! Sounds like abused to me but was he abusing you or himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway!!
The guilt card is pretty powerfull but when you are able to overcome it and defeat it's power, it feels pretty good

WIWH

WIWH,

That is a really powerful statement and I needed to hear it, because my H lays the guilt on thick! I fall for it eveytime, but no more!

JT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />f I were really concerned about the kids I'd find a way to live with him.<hr /></blockquote>Perhaps this staement bothers you because you suspect it might be true.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />And while divorce was not best for the children, it was better than the alternative which was one of us dead.<hr /></blockquote>Statements like this reflect a black and white thought process often characteristic of clinical depression. I don't recall reading anything that indicated that you or your husband had done anything that would justify homicide in a court of law, and I doubt if you or he could justify suicide in most any religion, or even to advocates of assisted suicide. There are almost never only two alternative solutions to a problem. Just off the top of my head I can think of several others, aside from the obviously preferable one of working out your problems. These alternatives would include separation without divorce, working separate shifts so you don't see much of each other, and buying a duplex so that you can each keep your half in whatever condition you wish. These may not be completely satisfactory solutions, and I am sure you can come up with better ones, but any of these solutions is preferable to divorce.

Nellie, I never said that I'd be justified in committing murder, nor do I think suicide is morally justifiable.

I disagree with your assement of my thinking and of divorce, but I thank you for your reply.

editted to add:

As for the living separately. I wouldn't trust myself to make it a permenant situation. I would eventually fall.

[ November 06, 2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: greengables ]

OK GG,

I'd like to go back to the begining of this thread

You say he agreed to schedule, Is it on paper. Print out a calander with his days indicated and give it to him so he doesn't get confused!

Also give him a schedule of the girls regular routine. ON PAPER

5:30pm dinner
7:45 Jammies and BRUSH TEETH
8:00pm prayers
8:15 lights out.
7:30 am HE drives them to school

You can pick the times and tasks yourself if you like but I'm sure you get the idea.

He may not like you dictating these things to him but you have to let him know how important it is to them that they stay consistant on how the spend there time.

I do admit that the bed time is tough. When they are with me it's like a sleep over to them so they are hard to get settled down. I'm sure that will pass in time for them though.

? When they go to his place do they bring everything they need with them? Or do they have things there?

I brought my girls shopping for general things to have as there own when they are with me. Toothe brush and Toothe past, Hair brushes, Soap, Shampoo, Games.

That way all they need to bring with them is cloths and they will be able to take care of themselves when they are with me. I also don't need to hear
"Well mommy didn't pack me this" or "I forgot to bring that" (Although there was one time that my oldest went to bed wearing my jammies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

They also look forward to using the things that they have at my place so it makes it easier.

And If he has any comment or complaints, what I have found that works pretty good is to just cover your ears and say"La La La La La La La " As loud as you can as you are walking away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WIWH

Careless judgmental stress styles in marriages or divorces do not serve anyone. Everyone gets stressed...it's just that it is best not to project that stress on others and pass it off as if someone other than you controls your emotions. A more congruent or "go with the flow" attitude might serve you better when viewing your husbandâ€™s choices. After all, most people do not care about what you think of them anyway so concentrate on taking care of #1 only for a change and you'll find that more and more people are attracted to you that way anyway.Heck, its' not hard. Why do spend so much time buying into what some counselor says. After all, the counselor, the pastor, and the lawyer all will give you what you want. Take a down to earth approach....Be nice---it is your only way out. Let the anger go, have a successful divorce at least---you owe that to yourself---make the divorce worth it now that it is done.

Careless judgmental stress styles in marriages or divorces do not serve anyone. Everyone gets stressed...it's just that it is best not to project that stress on others and pass it off as if someone other than you controls your emotions. A more congruent or "go with the flow" attitude might serve you better when viewing your husbandâ€™s choices. After all, most people do not care about what you think of them anyway so concentrate on taking care of #1 only for a change and you'll find that more and more people are attracted to you. Why do spend so much time buying into what some counselor says. After all, the counselor, the pastor, and the lawyer everyone all will give what you want. Take a down to earth approach....Be nice---it is your only way out. Let the anger go, have a successful divorce at least---you owe that to yourself---make the divorce worth it now that it is done.

You are so right, Scott. Since I control my emotions, and should take care of Number 1 first, and want to have a successful divorce, I'm going to go after what I want!

Hells bells, I could be divorced and no better off than married, as Cerri has pointed out time and again. Time to stand up for what I want.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Time to stand up for what I want. <hr /></blockquote>You go Girl!

Ok that doesn't sound right comming from me but I believe the comment was warranted <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WIWH