Hello everyone. I am new to this so please as I ramble my story be patient. I am one confused puppy. About a month ago as I sit in my house I answer the door to a man serving papers on my H for child support on a three year old girl. We've been married 10 years this Wed. Now first off this was only a shock in the matter of there being a C. The affair was not much of a shock since this is not the first time he's had an A. At the time of this A we were almost living apart. His job had moved him and since I was pg I stayed behind to sell the house. As soon as the baby came I moved w/him. But for some reason I could not quit my job so 3 to 4 days out of the week I stayed w/my sister and came home on weekends. Now I have learned that for the first 6 months of our 2nd sons life he was spending every night I was w/my sister with her, in my house and bed no less. This girl was young (19 and a virgin, he was her first) while he was 33. Of course I can see the excitement from his stand point but I am devastated that he had her in my house (not the first time thats happened either). Well this being her first everything she of course fell hard and I feel she got pg on purpose to try and force him to leave me. Of course he didn't he was using her for sex only. Hes had no contact with OC. He's never even seen her. Now that is also touchy because we have 3 boys and of course she gets the girl. He hasn't done DNA yet (June 3) but I have seen her and feel she is his. He claimes he does not want anything to do with either of them and in a small way I am glad he wants no contact with OC. However if we pay child support it will devastate our family. I quit my job last year when the 4th unexpected baby came along, so we do live pay check to pay check. My H however has a job where he makes pretty good but he does not bring home pretty good. We just get by. But three lawyers have told me by the guidelines in this messed up state she could get as much as 600 a month for the one. And I've learned that the first court order wins, so if she gets her's in first she'll get 600 for one where as I'll get 900 for three. It appears that no one cares he's married and that this was an A or even that we have three kids. I think all that should matter in the courts. All I seem to get from most is poor child. I feel this was her mothers mistake and stupidity. Of course my husband holds some blame but I am tired of these women blaming them. You know the "I didn't crawl on top of my self and get pregnant". First to those of you who our OW, thats a lame excuse. You and only you are in control of your body. We are the only species on earth who can conciously control our number of off spring. Men are just being men. They don't think about babies because they don't carry them. The concept of children does not enter their minds like it does ours when having sex (not to mention she told him she was on bc but just had a baby by another man and was suppossidly on bc then to. HHHM!). And the man has no say in if you keep or don't keep the baby. Thats your choice so when you keep it don't get even by making sure wife and kids know. Your just hurting innocent children.
Back to me. Still everywhere I turn all I hear is it"s none of my business and it's not my money and I have no right to try and keep him from the OC. I told him that I would not have the OC in mine or my kids lives. So now the only way I can keep her from getting a large sum of money is to leave him and file first. I don't want a divorce due to my sons adore their father and for the most part our marriage isn't that bad. Not to mention I have 13 years invested in him and his BS. Its nice to know that I have finally found a place where I am not reading how everyone thinks the wife is the awful person for not wanting anything to do with the OC. I mean she's not my problem. I don't understand why everyone feels I should play weekend mommy to her. I do think its sad that she'll grow up without a father but we all have our problems don't we? If there is anyone with any feedback please talk to me. This is hard to think about every day without an outlet. Friends and family really only want to say leave the [censored]. I'm trying to think of four children who this will severly affect. I mean if I leave him it's like they lost both parents since I'll have to work my butt off to survive. Thanks for listening people in the same boat as me.

There is no way to get out of paying CS if the child is his.
The courts dont care if the child is from an affair or not. They dont care if the man has other children or not. That is just the way it is.
We lost our home and van and had to file bancruptcy because of it.
Has your husband had any type of counseling? I think he needs it. You said this wasnt his first affair, Then I would tell him if he wants to rebuild your marraige he needs counceling. He needs to find out what is lacking in himself that allows him to go outside your marraige. I also think it would benifit you to have counceling as well. I know you are not going to like what I am about to say but I have to say it, NO ONE STUCK A GUN TO YOUR H"S HEAD AND MADE HIM ***** THE OW. He did that all on his own. The best way to prevent pregnancy is to keep the stupid thing in your pants. He is as much to blame as the OW. He had a choice. He choose wrong. That is all on him.
I dont think it is awful that you want nothing to do with the OC. there are several people here who believe that NO CONTACT is best. Others on here do have contact. the 2 of you have to do what is best for you and your family. Only the 2 of you can decide what that is.

Lori

Hi. Welcome to the board. You have come to the right place. People here will listen, share their experiences, offer advice but not judged you for what you decide to do in the end. This is a very safe place to vent, ask questions, and get sympathtic support. Unfortunately, those of us on this board know exactly how you feel. So I'm glad you have found this board -- it has been a HUGE help to me.

You are in a tough position -- you feel like you have been hit by a train emotionally and there are life changing decisions to be made. It's not easy. Everything you are feeling is completly normal. You will find one day you are doing okay and the next you are in a pit -- it is a real rollercoaster ride. That's normal -- so don't blame yourself for your array of emotions.

It really stinks how CS is figured out in the courts. But that's the way it is. In our case, OW gets more in CS because I stayed married than if I had gotten divorced. It seems like such a pile of crap that if you do get divorced in my state the courts see the OC as "of the marriage" and my child support is altered for that even though HELLO??? this kid isn't FROM my marriage. I have often thought the BW on this board should start a movement to have some of these child support laws changed. But for now, it's the law of the land. So scream with the rest of us. It sucks!

Right now -- take care of you. You have alot of emotions to work through plus the daily tasks of your kids. Love on them extra -- it will be good for you too. Just focus on now and riding some of these emotional waves. There is planty of time to make those big decisions. Just let all of this soak in and start to sort through it in your heart and mind.

There is no right or wrong answer to your sitch -- there is only what you can do. No one can prove that C or NC is the right choice, no one can prove that you should stay or go,etc. It is easy for family and friends to jump in with "Well, you should . . . I would . .. " but they don't truly know your pain. They love you and want you to jump back to happiness so they are thinking of you but they just don't really know. You will have to decide what you can handle (C or NC w/ OC), see how that matches up w/ H, go from there.

Initially I responded like you -- I don't want to get divorced because of my kids, but I NEVER want anything to do with OC. Over the course of several months, SLOWLY I have changed and have seen OC twice and plan on visitation starting soon. But it has taken a lot of work with H to get to this point -- it is more what he has done over time to prove his dedication to me above all that has made it possible for me to even consider C. That's my story but like I said earlier you willhave to make those choices for what works for you.

Hang in there -- it will be better one day. Keep posting.

Beth

Hi Crazed, I agree with you completely, this was a total shock to me. I'm being punshed because I'm staying married??? So 3 children should be hurt so one can have a better life??? whatever. I figured out that if I filed first and got alimony (which I SURELY would have) her payments would have been about $200 less a month. We even considered filing for separation (you don't have to be separated) to lessen her payments, but I decided against it on principle. Some people don't have a choice. If it's that bad of a situation financially, I say work the sytem if it won't work for you. JMHO! I also personally believe what you say about women getting pregnant. I am a woman and there's no way I'm getting pregnant unless I want to. At age nineteen I may not have been able to say I would have been so smart though.Naivety is not an excuse, just an observation.

I also agree with everything ttmiw and Tylorstepmom have said. This is a very emotional time and you will go through all kinds of anger. H definitely needs IC, you certainly will too and of course, MC. I just don't think in the beginning recovery is possible w/o it. Of course this means more $$, but maybe H gets a part-time job, sells a "toy" or does what he has to do to support this OC. In our case we refinanced and H and I switched to a high deductible insurance. There may be other ways you can find to lessen your expenses. I will be getting a part-time job this fall, butwe needed the income B$ this happened, so I'm looking at it that way. I've designated my income to go towards my school expenses and my children's extras and prefer to look at it that way, NOT like I'm paying for this child. Good luck to you. It's a hard row to hoe, but with proper attention on H's part and good communication between you, you can get through this! HUGS

Hello,
Consider filing for a fax separation and file for child support yourself. The laws are changing in some states that they have to take in account all the children. It all depends on your state. There are some people her that filed and stayed together in order to make the payments lowered. Your husband just has to have a sepearte address in some states you can just set up a P O Box. In my state they do consider the children of the marriage. However, it would not be as much probably has if I file for child support. look into the laws of your state. Some states have changed the laws there are court cases that went to the state supreme court and ruled that the child support laws were unconstitutional and they have to consider all the children.


How is your marriage? IS Your H still cheating on you? Are you working on rebuilding your marriage? I would read the principles on this site.

Dawn

Thanks for the feedback. It feels great typing with someone else who UNDERSTANDS. What state are you guys in because it sounds as if we may live in the same state. Im in South Carolina. Anyway I'd like to respond to the three wonderful ladies who have responded.
Tylorsstepmom I agree no one made him have sex. But let me explain where my crazy mind is. First off she lied to him about being on BC. He never lied to her about being married. See to me what makes these OW or OM more the fault is they do all this on purpose. When you have a married person w/children basically asking for sex you should be smart enough to see he's asking you to be his ****. This ring makes me his wife. It makes them the ****. So when they do the things they do such as get pg on purpose they are going out to hurt people. Now we the wives we'll be ok oneday. But the children won't. So to me they are intentionally hurting children, ours and theirs. I see it like if you get in your car and you hit someone and they die it was an accident. You never meant to hurt anyone. But if you get in your car and you mean to run someone over and kill them then your a murderer. To me same difference with the Ow. And by reading most of these boards these OW are not sorry or remorseful, their just out to hurt. I mean we can all make mistakes, them to, but not yet have I seen a post where anyone has said "me and the OW are friends and were trying to make this as easy as possible on everyone". I even met my OW and her kid. She claimed how young and dumb she was. She wished she could make it up to me and she wanted her kid to know her siblings and father. That she was willing to work with us on the child supportand all. Played it off nice as can be. Now she won't return my calls or anything. But I've also seen most of the H's are trying to make right what they did wrong. I know my H never intended for her to get PG nor did he think I would find out (she told him she would never hurt me or his kids she just wanted him to know he had a kid in case he wanted something to do with her. She said she would never tell me. And she said she didn't want anything from him concerning the OC. Yeh). You know most men believe that what they don't know won't hurt em. Yes he was wrong. Very wrong, but if I had to label blame it's 80% OW/OM 20% H.
Tryingtomakeitwork thanks for all the kind words and advice. Very sweet.
colddayinjuly and dawn71 I see you two know where I come from. I have a meeting today with my attorney to get paperwork started on my alimony and child support. I refuse to let her come in and receive almost a 1000 a month for no other reason then screwing my H. Shoot I've been doing it for 13 years. I will not let her beat me. I tried to do it the right way but it kept coming up with me getting screwed so now I'm doing what I must. Won't she be surprised when the day comes and she thinks she's getting a load only to get maybe 200. And I'm not doing this to be a bee-otch. I'm making sure my kids get what they need. If we pay her that much that will literally be taking food from their mouths. And let me set the record straight about me not working. I can't work at this time due to my children. I had a fab job that I loved and was at 10 years. I quit last year because one of my children has special needs and it required me to be a full time mom. So no I am not against working, I just can't right now.
As far as my marriage. Well he's still breathing. We actually do good. Sad to say that so much has happened in the past this is just par for course. I do intend to get him help. He has alot of issues from childhood which I think accounts for alot of his wondering. He was sexually, physically, and mentally abused by his parents when he was young. I have no doubts that he loves me but I realize he loves me as much as he can love someone. Some people don't realize that really makes a difference in how you handle these affairs. It took me to have a complete breakdown, alot of self help books and research to realize he's really not that bad he's just got issues and those issues and his affairs do not represent me. And besides his affairs he is a wonderful person. He treats me good. He's not mentally or verbally abusive. He gives me control of every dime he makes. He's a wonderful father to our boys. He's a great lover(obviously). Besides cheating the only other thing I hate about him is he's hard to talk to. Not a great worker outer but I am working on that to. Thanks for listening.

I know you are in a hard spot right now. But do you think that by laying most of the blame on the OW is going to fix it? It doesn't matter if she was on Bc or not. Your H knew he was married and should have kept it in his pants. Both your H and Ow are to balme 50/50. Besides, no BC is 100% effective. Not to be mean, but didn't you post that your 4th child was unexpected??

You H really needs to get some counseling. Especially since this isn'this first affair. Don't be surprised if you get a knock on the door and he is being sued again for Cs.

Again, best of luck. You are in my prayers

Crazymum thanks for the feedback. I love this. I can discuss this touchy topic without getting the "oh here we go again" look. I respect your opion on the OW. Most people feel the way you do. I'm just saying that to me these OW/OM know what they are getting into and still do it all on purpose. The H to me are just being men (I'm sure I'll get feedback on that comment). But I honestly feel that it's just nature of the beast. Men cheat. Period. Some are just better and more discreet. Mine is obviously stupid because he keeps letting these girls fall for him. I keep telling him that women are vindictive and when all is said and done they are going for the revenge. These others KNOW from jump start that these men are liars and cheaters and full of **** but yet they feel thay have the right to try and be anything more then what they are. A piece of ***. But yet when they realize thats what they were then they actually have the nerve to act all done wrong. Come on people use a brain. I've been hit on by married men and my first thought everytime was "PIECE OF ****". No matter how nice or good looking or how much money he had. How does anyone think anything good will come out of sleeping with a married man? Let alone think this is the guy for me. Hell if he's cheating with you then he'll cheat on you. Now if the man or woman lies to the other and does not tell them they are married then I feel that the spouse is 100% at fault. As for my fourth yes he was a SURPRISE!!!! I had my tubes tied. But after meeting this girl I got the impression she's just looking for someone to take care of her. She just had another baby that she said she was on bc as well. Once maybe. Twice, come on. As far as the **** she feed me about she needs the child support is funny to me to. I mean she can't take care of her daughter (with state help I might add) but she can afford to drive five hours and pay for a hotel just to ***** my H. She's just mad that her plan did not work and instead of saying I screwed up it's I'll show him. And yes I have always waited for this knock and no I wouldn't be surprised if another showed up. I guess thats why I'm not to shook up. I have always had a feeling this was coming.

Crazed,

When I was in my affair, in the begining, I didn't know what I was doing. I wasn't thinking clearly. I was married as was the OM. Later in the affair, I started to do things on purpose. But in the begining, no.

As for the men cheat comment, that is pure BS!!!! You are just giving your H and excuse for what he does. It seems you are condoning it. Cheating is wrong, weither it be the man or woman doing it. In no way shape or form is cheating right in my book.

As for shild support, it is for the child, not the OW. My H pays child support for a child he had from an affair. I believe that child deserves it. It is not the childs fault that they were brought here by 2 selfish people.

crazymum thanks for your input but first off I am NOT condoning anything. He's a dog. I'm not in denial. But if you feel that ALL men don't cheat then you are in denial. Like I said before some are better then others. Some may take 20 years before they cheat some just jump out the gate. As far as the child support goes NO this OC DOES NOT deserve to receive all that money. It does not deserve to receive MORE money then my three simple because it's mother is a **. My children deserve more and just because she filed first does not mean she should win. I mean I SHOULDN"t have to file. I am his wife. Me and my own are being punished because we are doing what we are suppose to be doing. A sperm donation a family does not make. Men don't want children from their *****. Do you think my children should suffer because this OW tried to trap him by getting pg? She does not care about her own D, hell the kid basically lives with the grandparents,not the mother. Like I said this OW just wants someone to take care of her. Her filing cs was simply her way of letting me know about the affair. But I can see where your coming from since you obviously had no problem sleeping with a married man. What type of things did you do on purpose once into the affair? Were you vindictive and purposly trying to hurt the wife, who by the way has done nothing to you. Why do all OW feel the wife is the enemy. Were not the ones degrading ourselves or lying or anything else yet all of you feel were the wrong ones. I'm no saint but I by no means deserve some ***** who does not even know me try to hurt me or my three innocent children. As far as her kid goes your right it's not the kids fault but it's not my childrens fault either. And I feel for the OC since I am one myself. My mother was my fathers *****. And the wife abused me. I can say that I hold no ill will toward her. It WAS NOT right that my father forced me upon her. And it's not right that I should be expected to be the kind loving stepmom to someone I could care less about. I have my own children to worry about. I am not trying to be harsh or mean or anything. I just feel that this woman made a huge mistake trying to trap my H and made a bigger mistake trying to take me on. To all those OW out there be careful who you piss off because sometimes the wives fight back. Were not all intemidated by a cheap piece of ***. Trust me my H's OW is about to find out she opened Pandora's box messing with me and my own. I refuse to be a victim. I WILL fight for myself. As far as the husband goes trust me MR. Sex Addict is not getting off easy either. He'll be paying but it'll be me he's paying most. She'll get a little but a very little. I know this post will make alot mad. Thats not my intention. I just will not have someone try and tell me that I am blind or stupid. Come on ladies if you think about it WE, the wives, have the upper power. I plan to screw her and my husband at the same time. I refuse to cry or feel sorry for myself for being the decent human being. But I still love debating this with everyone. I'm just a very straight forward person who say's what I mean and mean's what I say. Of course you know what they say about opions. Keep the comments coming. Just beware I hold no bars back but I don't mean to be rude so if I come off that way, SORRY. I know somehow we are all in the same boat.

All men CAN cheat, just like all women CAN cheat too. From reading the Harleys books, I've come to believe that ANYONE given the right (wrong?) set of circumstances is liable to give in to temptation. Now of course anyone who does it once is much, much more likely to do so again -- they've already broken through the moral restraints once and they never get tied up as tightly again, UNLESS there are SERIOUS life-changing top-to-bottom measures taken... like the Harleys describe. Marriages CAN be made virtually affair-proof, but it takes two people willing to commit everything in their lives to making the marriage #1.

I'm sorry if I've missed something... do you or your husband want to work on the marriage? Is divorce being considered as a "tactical" move in light of CS, or a decision that the relationship can't be saved? Because this forum is a testament to the fact that it can be, and even be a better marriage than ever, if you both are willing. That being said, I respect your resolve and determination to do what's best for you and your kids.

I guess the main thing I'd caution you about is that through all this you protect your children's relationship with their dad. I realize you're venting here, so I probably shouldn't read too much into the tone of everything, but there's no such thing as an amicable divorce and in your zeal to "screw" him over I hope you can shelter your children from the emotions between you and H.

Waslost71 your right about anyone can cheat, man or woman. I guess my point on all men cheat is that the main and sometimes only reason they cheat is sex. I think most (95%) of women cheat for other reasons then sex. I mean how many times do you hear of nuns having sex yet it's common for priests. I just don't think men look at affairs like women do. Thats why most of the time women are a complete emotional mess while men have that "yes it was wrong but whats the big deal?" attitude. Men have a different outlook on life. If you've never watched the Men Are From Mars Women Are From Venus tapes you should. It will really open your eyes on HOW different the two sexes are. Now yes I am only venting on this board. My children or for that fact even my husband has not seen me really upset or angry or much of anything about this. My friends and family swear I have plans to kill him in his sleep or something just because I am to calm. As far as our marriage goes right now I am to busy dealing with attorneys and court dates about this CS to focus on the marriage. I am awaiting my attorney to call me with a court date for MY cs and alimony. I AM getting my cs established first. Like I said before no ho is walting into my life and steal from my children because she was stupid enough to get pg by MM. Once all cs is established and my H see's the OC for the first time will decide if we try to save this marriage or not. I think once he sees his D from her he's gonna change. He's never seen her where as I have. He's always wanted a girl and I feel he's gonna melt. He should see her for the first time next Thursday. At this point and time he says he wants nc. If he changes his mind then I know the marriage will have to end. I know its very unfair of me to feel or say that but life is about choices. His choice is to see and deal with OC or not. And my choice is to stay married and deal with OC or not. I think people get confused and feel because the H have these OC then us as women, mothers, and wives should deal with the OW and OC. Like it's our duty. I just don't feel that the OW or OC are my problem. I refuse to live the rest of my life dealing with them. I am only dealing with the CS issue because that will affect what my children get for the next 17 years. At this time I also don't want my three boys to know of their "sister". I am a firm beliverer that children follow in their parents footsteps. I mean my husbands father is a discusting man. Has cheated on and still cheats on his wife of 40 years. See the pattern. So by telling my boys about OC just opens that door to see daddy did it and moms ok with it. Thats what my H and his siblings see from their parents. Like I said before I am an OC. My dad had 5 children by his wife. Me by the mistress. I was at one point close to my oldest brother but three of the five I don't know and could care less. I mean they could walk up to me right now and I wouldn't know them. So I don't feel that they will be missing out on anything other then the knowledge that their dad is a lying cheater. I guess there is a part of me that is very resentful that she had the girl. I mean we tried five times(2 miscarriages boys as well) and all I got was boys (not complaining I love my little monsters), so YES it bothers me HUGE that she (OW) gave him something I didn't. My post last night was a lot ventfull sorry had just got home in foul mood and had some drinks in me. I mean today is our tenth anniversary and its anything but great. Thanks for listening all.

Crazedmomma,
I am in SC also. e-mail me and let me know how your situation is going?? I'm curious because in my situation w/o alimony (and I have no way of knowing how much that would have been) her payments wouldn't have been lessened that much. Look forward to hearing from you.

steph11@sc.rr.com

At the beginning of your post you said this girl was a virgin and got pregnant on purpose to keep him then later in the post you say she had a child by another man. ???

It's not this child's fault that she was conceived in adultery and has the same needs to survive that children have who are born within the bounds of marriage. If he didn't want a child, he should have seen to birth control. You criticize them at the same time you admit a 4th child that was a mistake.

This was not the first time your husband has been unfaithful and she being only 19 and if true she was a virgin at 19, it seems that she is the second most innocent (the child being the truly most innocent.) He used her and threw her away. Loser.

This child will suffer the most from the idiocracy of the adults involved in her life. It's a shame. To get out of supporting this child and denying her the relationship with her father is cruel and will come back to haunt you. Your children as well as her daughter will suffer. While I can understand your pain and anger, consider yourself in this girl's place or consider the suffering of your children as well as hers. It would be the mature and healthy thing to work together for the benefit of all the children. They'll learn from your example...

To JPH:

The title of her original post was "Need Someone who Doesn't Think I'm Awful." She came here looking for support and validation of her feelings about learning there is an OC. If all you had for her was criticism perhaps you should have refrained from posting.

jph let me set some things straight. First off she claimes my H was her first, she got pg but was on bc. And then she had another child this past March by yet another guy she claimes she was on bc but yet managed to do it again.
As far as my fourth child is concerned I NEVER said he was a mistake. I said he was a SHOCK because I had my tubes tied.
Are you saying that you feel the adultress and her illigtimate child are more innocent then myself and my children? I would think we are the most innocent. We were doing as we were suppose to. She knew she was screwing a MM and she knew he wanted no children from her. How is she so innocent? And as far as him using her thats her fault. People can only use you as much as you let them. If she hadn't known he was married with a family then yes I would agree with you. But she jumped in eyes wide open. He told her he was never leaving me. So the fact she kept screwing him is her stupidity.
Lastly I never denied him the right to see this OC. That is his choice. However it's my choice whether I deal with OC/OW. And I refuse to deal with them. IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. Where is the law written that the wife who's been done wrong HAS to be this wonderful person to the OC? Her mother knew she was having an unwanted kid. But funny everyone wants to blame the man. He's the loser huh? The OW is just so innocent. Like I said in a past post if the man does not lie and basically lets you know your a piece of [censored] then don't act all shocked and hurt when you get treated for what you are. And in the last 3 years she has not once asked my H for support or visitation but she has asked for the occasional screw. What kind of person does that make her? Still so sweet and innocent? As far as support goes yeh I guess she deserves something but not so much that I have to wonder how I am going to feed my children. And exactly how will my children suffer if we have no c? As far as me putting myself in her place I can't because I would never sleep with a MM much less get pg by him. What does a MM have to offer me? But you have your opion and I respect that. But not one person on this board is going to make me feel sorry for either of them. The mother made the choice to put her kid in this situation. She told my H that she knew he was married and wanted nothing from him. It was her choice to have this kid and she would live with it. I would think that NC in most ways would be better. The mother can tell the kid anything she wants. But if he gets contact then the OC knows she was a mistake (at least on her fathers part) and that her mom is a ho and her dad is a lying cheater. Thats a lot for a person to know. Like I said I grew up as the OC and from personal expierence and all the reading I've done on this site and a site concerning the OC I have as of yet read anything that was great that C was established. The OC is torn between a mother who is mostly using them to control/hurt the dad and or to just hurt the wife (like she deserves it). Its a legal and emotional battle for all involved. So maybe some need to think is it really in the best interest for ALL people involved that visitation is established?
Any hoo whats your story? I don't believe I've come across yours yet. I don't know I've read so much I could have. I'm just curious to how your expierence pushes your judgement.

Oh, I have so much I could say to you jph. But first of all, is a pregnancy ever really "a mistake". We all know where baby's come from. Unless someone has had a vasectomy or tubal ligation, then that is a genuine "I had no idea!" Otherwise, I would question that. BC isn't 100% but then you can't really take a person's word for it because ther's no way to prove they used itproperly. When I got pregnant with my first child H and I were not married. I knew I was taking a chance, but never meant to conceive. H was exstatic, I wasn't so sure about it. My point is that I would have never taken the chance to have someone's baby that I wasn't willing to. Funny how for 15 years prior to my first child I never made that "mistake". We all know how women's minds work and though I don't think my 31 year old OW "meant" to get pregnant, she surely knew how to NOT. AND, she'd already had an abortion, so she had that option as well. In the end the only answer is She wanted his baby. It was her choice and only her choice. So why do I have a responsibility or H for that matter to accept this child into our lives. The outcome of any child is the attitude of the parents, in some cases the mother is the only active parent. If H chooses not to be involved, that was NOT her choice to make. She can go find another man to be "daddy" to her child, an sperm donor does not a father make.

I don't want to make waves, but your comment about the OW being innocent hit a nerve. She was 19 not 10. She knows what causes babies and has every oppertunity to prevent herself from becoming pregnant. I have a stong belief that women have to take responsibility of their own bodies. That girl has no one to blame but herself (with a little help from a MM) for the situation she is in. If she was not on BC then she need to say no, "not without a condom". She kenw it was a possibility when she had sex with that man without BC or protection.

I became sexually active at 18 and I was mature enough to tell my now H no when we had no protection. And I have been on BC since I was 19. It was not hard and my parenets didn't know about. If this girl was sexually active there is no excuse for her not being on BC.

That is just my opinion and we are all entitled to our own. But as far as I am concerned the only innocent people in these messed up situations are the children (I don't even consider myself a BS as innocent).

She's 19 years old! Most people that age have little understanding of the complications of life. Your husband was a married 33 year old repeat cheater and he as you said was using her for sex. Now if that isn't a loser I don't know what is!

The oc/ow IS your problem if you decide to stay married to him. You say you shouldn't have to be a wonderful person to this child because you've done nothing wrong-what has the child done wrong? (even brandy said she didn't consider herself innocent)

I would think if you had been in this situation, you would have some compassion for this child. As I said, the children are the main concern but there's so much anger and blame, I'm afraid they'll get lost in all of it.

No matter how much you don't like it, he's the father of this child and has the responsibility of support. The only sure way of not having children is to obstain from sex so both parties are of equal blame in that matter. Only a fool would have relied on the statement of another about birth control.

I too felt it unfair that my family suffered because of the actions of my h and xow but life is not fair. (My life became much easier when I realized that fact.) The law is very clear about requiring parents to support their children. I know you are very frustrated, angry and threatened but instead of spewing out this venom, try to calm down and realize it all has to be dealt with. Remember you're modeling for your children how to behave as an adult. You've got a horrible situation and forced to deal with a loser...would you want your children to have a spouse with the character (or lack of character) that your husband has...think about it.

Crazedmomma has every right to come here and "spew her venom" as you put it to vent. Venting all those ugly thoughts about OW can be helpful in the healing process. When a person is expressing their feelings about their sitch, they don't need another person to shoot down everything they say. Exercise some compassion. We are here to listen and encourage one another -- not attack someone's intial feelings after finding out about an OW/OC. This post isn't a debate about a 19 yr. old girl or birth control. It is
a betrayed woman starting to sort through all that has happened and express some pain.

As the old saying goes "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

I'm sorry Crazed, but your H also knows how babies are made. He was just as much of a willing particapant as she was. If he really didn't want to take the chance at having another child, then he should of kept Mr.happy in his pants. He knew the risk of having unproteced sex.

I'm so sick of hearing how the OW is all at fault. It takes two to make a baby. Your H is just as much respinsible for that child as she is. Even if it means just finacially.

My H has a child with his Xow. Even though she claimed to NOT be able to get pregnant, she did. She knew he was married and had 3 kids. My stepson is now 6. She has done all the wonderful, you can't see him cause you are with your W, if you want to see him you have to come to my home, right done to teasing him on her new H adopting him. I feel my H helped create this child, it is his duty to help support him, no matter who or what the mother is

I just wanted to add this. Ow isn't innocet. She is to blame right along with your H. They BOTH knew what they were doing was wrong.

You on the other are innocent. So are your children. And as much as you want to believe other wise, so is the OC. That innocent baby didn't have a say on who her parents are or how she was conceived/brought into this world.

I know how hard it is to deal with an OC. The emotions that go with all the crap. But no matter what, that child is innocent........ She deserves a chance at life.

jph I guess you feel your a saint. I on the other hand am not. If this was done to you then why do you feel for OW? Also I'm kinda sick of you calling my h a loser. Where's your compassion for his mistake. You don't sound as if you hold any compassion for the H's only the OW. Like the ho's were just so sweet and innocent and the loser H's were the evil ones. As far as not knowing much about life at 19 I beg to differ. I just found out that little tramp was meeting him at rest stops to just f*&%. Even taking it up the wazoo. Yeh she sounds innocent to me. As far as dealing with her. Nope just not my problem. He screwed her not me. As far as the little sin goes not my problem either. And sorry a sperm donation does not a father make. If I stay with him then he will have nc. But if he chooses c then I'm out of here. It's us or them. Plain and simple. I still don't see how I'm teaching my children bad things out of life? I am not teaching them that it is okay to cheat on your wife and then have her help raise the baby. My children know nothing of this and if I have anything to do with it they never will. And no he wasn't a participant of making babies. He was a participant of getting screwed. I don't think any man spoken about on this site was wanting a baby from the OW and I don't see how you or anyone else don't see how they were played as well. How do you feel sorry for these OW? Maybe you are one. You know takes one to know one. I bet your one of those people who would sue the tobacco companies for getting cancer after 10 packs a day for 10 years. Oh yeah and the virgins father is also a preacher. Your right I guess she just was young and dumb and had never been taught the rights and wrongs of life. She must have missed the day they covered adultry in church. And screwing without wedlock, she missed that day to. But my loser H who was sexually molested as a child by a parent and has a sexual addiction doesn't deserve any compassion. Only the ho in your book huh?
And tryingtomakeitwork thanks for the support. At least you are someone who dosen't think I'm awful. Of course if I keep ranting like this post you may change your mind about me.

[color:"blue"] whoa...let's all take a deep breath here.

Crazed momma, I am so sorry you are in this situation.

My H says XOW was a 'virgin' too...whatever. We all were once hanh? so what?

It is SO shocking to be in this situation.

I was 19 when H & I had our first child..I knew eXACTLY what I was doing & understood COMPLETELY the choices I made.

There is no excuse for that.

You are not a bad person for NOT wanting to deal w/ this.
I think it is VERY smart to get yrou CS set up first. OW is doing what she needs to do to protect hers & you should too. THe law will NOT automatically look ouot for yoru chidlren..ONLY you will so you have to do what you must do.

You have to make the system work for you.

You are right to be upfront about what you think & feel...no surprises for H down the road. You don't want to deal w/ OW & OC fine....his choice of what he wants & how HE wants to deal w/ it.

You don't have to defend yourself here, even if it feels like you do.

Sure OC is innocent , no disputing that BUT so are your children & you have every right to protect them in whatever way you feel is necessary & in their best interests.

You also have a right to choose hwo YOU want to deal w/ this & IF you want to or not.

It's ok.

I've coem to realize, especially in these sitches that some things (like my mottos says) cannot be fixed. There are hard-core consequences & sometiems htey are UGLY.

Families are torn apart, children are left fatherless...you make the best w/ what you have to work w/. kwim?

Every one takes their part, sucks it up & moves on...in whatever direction they choose.

It's ok.

breathe. [/color]

Whew..where do you get that I would sue a tobacco company? You're irrational!

Babies are made through the act of sexual intercourse. If he participated in sexual intercourse with her he was a willing participant. You claim he wasn't a "participant" then the child isn't his? Whether a peson wants a child or not doesn't change the fact that the child was conceived. That's irrational!

Being abused as a child or having a sexual addiction doesn't get anyone off the hook for their behavior. We're all responsible for our own behavior.

I can't understand why you come to his defense when you claim he has done this before. He only used her for sex as you claim but she persued him. That doesn't make sense.

The only compassion I have in this situation is for these children. Not for him or ow but least of all for him. There is a 14 year difference in their age! He is probably not that much younger than her father.

You want to make this everyone's fault rather than your husband...her fault...her father's fault...her church's fault... The fault lies with your husband and her. And there's a price to be paid. It would be healthier for you and these children to deal with it in a mature way. I know you despise this girl for what she's done and rightfully so but in the process don't let your husband off the hook. As the saying goes, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

jph,

Well, in some ways I agree with you, but not in how you are treating someone so new and fresh to THIS specific situation! You were asked a couple times about your story, and I have yet to see you post it for us to understand WHERE you are coming from. I did a search, and found this quote, from you, here on this board, which you rarely visit, and I would like to you read what you said and apply it to Crazed here, please!



You know, it DOES make a difference in those who were sexually abused and now have a sexual addiction. Just as with addicts of other things, alcohol, drugs, you don't excuse their behaviour, but you try to help them overcome their problem. Which, in my book, doesn't mean that you turn tail and run away!

Think of how you felt when you first found out about your x(?) having an A. The pain and anger you felt. Well, now add to that the fact that there is a child out there that, from my understanding, neither of you knew about until the papers for DNA testing were delivered to your door!

Now, for the parts that I do agree with you on are just statements of fact, that BOTH parties in the A are responsible. I do feel that Crazed H should have insisted on condoms, even if the xow was claiming to be in BC. But, that doesn't make him worse, and neither does the fact that she was 19 and he 33. It's almost impossible in todays culture to NOT know how babies are created, and, heck, she was saying she was on BC, so she KNEW, just as he did!

Crazed is here for support, help, understanding, a place to vent so she keeps that anger away from her crumbling M! It sounds to me like her H wants to make this M work, and will do anything to do so. If you have a problem with them following the MB principles of M first(even if it did come a little late on the H's part) then maybe you need to refresh your knowledge on the MB principles, and also take a look at what the Harley's have to say about the OC and contact.

Crazed, please keep posting! We are here to help you get through the tough times and share our own experiences with you. I have one suggestion on venting though. Don't dwell on something you can't change. Deal with it when the triggers come, but if you dwell on it, you aren't helping rebuild your M either. I'm not saying anything about your recent posts, just make sure that you grow from what's offerd here, and not constantly dwell on the pain. How much of the principles and Q&A have you and your H read? Have you read any of the suggested reading? Done any of the questionares? Trust me, they are AWESOME tools in your recovery! We, ourselves, are approaching the 5 year of recovery!

I hope that you do keep posting!

jph do read anything I actually write? Where did I say I'm letting him off the hook? Where did I blame the church? I merly stated she had moral upbringing and wasn't so innocent. Her father is in his 60's, 30 years older then my H. I don't dispise this girl. I feel sorry for her. And I don't feel I'm irrational at all. I mean how can how I FEEL about sitch be irrational? I didn't and don't blame anyone else other then them. But sometimes there are deeper issues to one's behavior. I still disagree with the making baby part. Yes they had sex but that DOES NOT mean a baby will come unless someone is not doing their part. I mean you cook in the kitchen but it dosen't mean you'll get burned. You drive doesn't mean you'll crash. And as far as maturity goes you seem to like that word but I don't think you understand the meaning. I don't see how I'm being immature? I haven't lost my mind and done dumb things. I am the one sitting home taking care of my children, paying bills, and learning eveything I can on sexual addiction to help my H and family threw this. But I am here to help MY family. Not hers. What wonderful and MATURE things have you done for your sitch and OW to be healthy as you put it? Just curious since you seem to feel that I am wrong in how I choose to deal.

tigger thank you. I was enlightened by your post. No I haven't started on the list of things to do to get on with this. Any suggestions for where to start?

crazed, you said:

then this:


I have some questions because some things aren't adding up to me...

In what way did your father force you upon his wife?

In what manner did his wife abuse you?

How is that you were close to your oldest brother, but 3 of the 5 you don't even know? What about the 5th sibling, do you know that one?

Why do you refer to your mother as the "the mistress"? I mean, I know that's what she was, but from your POV, I'd think you'd just call her "my mother". I just find that statement rather odd.

If you are a "firm believer" that children follow in their parents' footsteps, how is it you've never cheated? Especially since BOTH of YOUR parents were adulterers, AND you were aware of it, just like your H and his sibling were aware of his father's A's?

Thanks,
~ad

crazedmomma,

First of all, I want to give you hugs for trying to find some kind of support system while you're faced w/this. I have not found myself in this situation, but my BIL was faced w/his W's A & having a child w/her OM, all along believing that the child was his when in fact it was someone else's. He didn't find out until 3 years later.

I'm just wondering how you propose to tell your children at some point that they have a half sister? Do you think they have the right to know? What I'm saying is, do you think they'll ever resent you or your H b/c they weren't informed of their sister? Will you tell them at some point? I hope they'll understand your reasons for NC someday.

I guess I'm just worried about what this will do to all the children involved, including the OW's D.

And, don't mean to offend, but I have to go w/the notion that not all men do this at some point in their lives. My BIL was a very faithful H, devoted father & his life was wrecked by his W's callous behavior & his children's lives were 4ever affected. It saddens me to see so much pain in this family's life.

Didn't mean to pop in to somewhere I didn't belong if you feel that way, but I was browsing the boards & this post just struck me. You're in so much pain & I wish I had some answers for you. It seems like you're being well taken care of by the other members here though. Keep your chin up. You will get through this.

Equally blamed, and equally compassion.

Thanks for the feedback ya'll.
autumnday let me answer your questions first. My father kidnapped me from my mother when I was about 4. When he needed someone to watch me he would leave me with the wife. He didn't do it often but when he did she was verbally and physically abusive. Thats how come I was close to my oldest brother he would try to protect me. Also for some reason only my oldest brother and I were my dads picks. So we stayed together. My dad did not stay with the wife he took me and moved elsewhere and he raised me till he died when I was 16. As for my mother she was the mistress. When my dad took me at 4 I didn't make contact with her again till I was 25. We just didn't bond and now have no relationship. I do believe children follow their parents footsteps if they feel that somehow what they are doing is right. See I was strong enough to see my parents mistake and the pain it caused so many. Where as my H saw his dad cheat,cheat,cheat and his mom just stay and deal. She's a very weak woman. You know when we tried counseling years ago I spent most of my time arguing with the counselers about how I was so different from how I was raised it just didn't add up. They told me I couldn't be a strong person unless someone taught me to be. I felt I was a strong person because I had to be. But nope they swore I wasn't telling them something from my past.

standingtogether welcome to the boards. I'm glad your BIL was a faithful person, to your knowledge. I do believe some people are just good cheaters. They follow the rules so to say. They don't get caught. I also feel that just because he hadn't cheated yet didn't mean one day he wouldn't. Some cheat straight out the gate. Some may take 20 years, but they all do it. Anyway not trying to down your BIL just a thought. As far as telling them they have a half sister I don't at this time plan to. I don't feel you can't miss something you don't know. Like me and my siblings. Don't know them, don't care. Just because they share some of the same DNA does not make them family. Come on dosen't EVERYONE have relatives they don't know? Do you miss them or even care about them? No of course not. Where is this any different? Do you feel that every child conceived in the world from a sperm donation should be considered family? No you don't. So why just because dad actually inserted penis into this woman make her or her c a must know? IT DOSEN'T. I do sound harsh huh? Not trying to be. I just have a different point of view. But thanks for writing in I do enjoy discussing this. It helps vent.

tigger..she's not fresh or new to this. She said in her first post that her husband has been unfaithful before. Anyone who has an unfaithful spouse should brace themselves for this situation. I was fortunate that my h's xow wanted nothing to do with the child she had and wanted no more.

Say someone killed a family member of yours and blamed it on the fact that they were abused during their childhood. Should they be blameless for this murder? No. Does that negate the damage they've done? No.

I could not support someone who wanted to hurt an innocent child and have no regard for that child. It seems that this situation is filled with adults that have no character. It breaks my heart that the children will suffer and more than likely repeat what they've seen.

Crazedmom is just that. She's too crazed to think rationally even to the point of believing he wasn't a participant! That's amazing to me considering his history.

My history..I am currently going through a divorce. My h is an alcoholic and it came time to end our marriage. It's an amicable divorce, he takes care of my yard, pays my bills and comes to dinner regularly. We're parting as friends for what good would it do to part as enemies. The affair has been over several (4) years yet he is still stalked by his xow from time to time. I have a disease that is slowly taking my eyesight and has left me with crippling arthritis. One eye is already gone and the other is functioning poorly. The screen on my computer is enlarged so that I can see. I take cancer medications that aids with severe arthritis. So you see I'm not one that is foreign to the concept of suffering, the difference being my reaction to the challenges that life offers. We all have choices in life-become angry and bitter because life is not what we expect and the people in our lives don't behave in an honorable fashion or we can learn from what we face in life. It's easy to be angry with those who are different or have offended our sense of entitlement. What good does that do? Allowing a child to suffer in that bitterness is the worst of all evils.

I have one word for you crazedmomma - condoms!!!! You said your husband has cheated before correct? Did he ever use them? That probably would have prevented the unwanted pregnancy. Have you been tested for STD's??? If not I would think about that immediately.
I am really surprised that some of the men on this board who have been cheated on haven't jumped on the "all men cheat" remark. I am a woman and I find that hard to take.
No-Im not the OW - I am the BS - who lost her husband of 26 years to a serial cheater.
I do understand your pain and I feel for you and it took me a long time to realize that the OW had no stake in my life - she's not the one who married me and betrayed me. My ex did.

Ummmmm, not to be petty, but ST has been on "the boards" for about 19 months now.

Also, IMO you DID put down ST's BIL by saying all men do it. In fact, you slammed ALL the men who do NOT cheat. Then again, by your theory, it's only natural for men to cheat, so they're excused for the most part--hence no slam. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

First, you didn't exactly answer all my questions, and SECONDLY, now I have a bunch more...
Kidnapped? Did your mother ever contact the authorities?

Do you remember being kidnapped, did you figure it out for yourself, or was it something, someone told you later?

Did you cry for your mom? Miss her?

Where did you go at the age of 16 when your father died?

If your mother was the mistress, what was your father?

When you were left with "the wife", (that totally sounds like something a man would say, btw), where were your other FOUR half siblings that you never met?

What do you mean by, "oldest brother and I were my dads picks. So we stayed together."?

What was your relationship like between you and your father?

Thanks,
~ad

ok I can see that this board may not be a help to me. I for one feel since everyone on here is here due to a cheating other they would agree with the everyone cheats (eventually). Anyway I am only voicing MY opinion. It seems some of you disagree with me. I'm fine with that but I am started to feel insulted. I don't recall ever saying that my H was blameless or innocent or anything to the innocent side of life. I have simply stated my opinion on the OW. If I want to feel she's trash (which I do) and he's innocent (which I don't) thats my right. I don't need anyone of you to call me any names (immature,evil,no character to name a few). I like how I have done NOTHING wrong yet I'm facing sh*t from SOME of you.
jph after this comment to you I have nothing more to say to you. I see your one who should be giving advice on evil or not evil. You say your getting a divorce. I can see why since your such a mature and understanding person. but yet I'm evil for not wanting anything to do with a kid that is not mine. Is not my blood. Is not in my life. I guess if that makes me trash in your eyes. OH Well. I won't loose any sleep over your opinion. But thanks all the same.

And for the record. I have NO STD's. I do go to a doctor on a regular basis. As far as my H cheating before so has most of yours probaly. They just didn't get caught. Most affairs are not the first ones and if they are they won't be the last. I mean do you feel these OC were maybe the only reason they got caught this time? I can't tell you how many times I had that debate at work with co-workers on all men cheat and they would argue not their H's. I was just bitter. Yeah well maybe but every one of those women ended up crying on my shoulder when they found out about OW. Just trying not to live in denial folks, thats it. I didn't make the statistics on divorce in America due to cheating. It's awful big percentage but yep I'm the evil one.
Smooches all.

Crazedmomma,
I know a lot of men cheat - just like I know a lot of woman cheat - I also know that not all men cheat. My ex didn't cheat on me physically - it was an emotional affair with a co-worker 15 years younger. But he cheated none the less but that was the first time he did. Maybe you think I'm naive but condsidering the size town I've always lived if he had I would have found out. Not that it matters how many years your spouse was faithful. And yes the statistics are horrible for divorce but the there are a lot of betrayed husbands on here who would never cheat on their wives - even after being cheated on.
I do hope you stay on this board - it is very helpful but just like you are entitled to your opinion I am entitled to mine and we should all be able to share it on here.
I'm so glad you are tested for STD's - I didn't say that about him cheating before to be nasty - I was just concerned that he was having unprotected sex with other woman and then with you. There are people on this board who have gotten STD's from their wayward spouses.
My son asked me once - why are you so mad at ow - she didn't betray you - Dad did. That's when my eyes were opened. I blame them equally.

Yes, but a far cry from ALL. That's all any of us were trying to point out. Your opinion may be that ALL men cheat sooner or later, but you know what? When you state an opinion as fact, (and when it's false), you'll get called on it.

To CrazedMomma:
It sounds like from your last post that you are leaving this board. I am sorry you ended up having to defend your OPINIONS (which is what everyone is overlooking -- these are her initial opinions about her sitch which she has recently found herself in) and received more questions than support. I know how difficult these situations w/ A, OW, OC can be and the worst part of it to me is feeling like you are alone. You do need someone or someplace to vent and be able to state your feelings (even if they are irrational to others). I will be glad to email with you if you need someone to talk to -- I don't have all the answers but I have the ability to listen without judgement. My email is [email]wurmommy@bellsouth.net.[/email]

Beth

Everyone has a right to their opinion. That doesnt make that opinion a fact. Your opinion is every man cheats. That doesnt make it a fact. That is what people are trying to get you to understand.

I also understand (I think) that you do blame your H a little bit. I think you dismiss his behavior because he was sexually abused and he is a sex addict.
I can speak on part of this. I was sexually abused as a child. That does not give me the right to cheat or to totally destroy someone's life. It is a cop out and a justification.
I think (I could be wrong) is what upsets alot of people is that your H has cheated on you multiple times and you seem ok with it. You say "all men cheat, if they did it once they will do it again". Well if that is the case why stay with him? Its like giving him a get out of jail free card. You expect it, He knows it, so what does he have to lose?

I am not trying to slam you, I am just asking questions.
If I found out my H was having multiple affairs, my marraige would be over and he would be without his family jewels because I would surely cut them off.
No way would I stay married and let him continually hurt me and my children like that. Let alone take the risk of him bringing aids or any other STD into my home. Why have you allowed it or put up with it for so long.??

Lori

I am sorry for the suffering you have been through, and are currently going through, but that doesn't mean that you were never angry or bitter at some point. Just because someone is reacting to a sitch right now, doesn't mean that's where they stay! If that were the case, then I should still be wallowing in my own anger and bitterness, but I'm not, because I was able to vent and get it out. And, by venting in a place like this, she's keeping that bitterness away from her children. In choosing NC, she's keeping any possible residual anger away from the OC. She's set her boundaries, and should stand by them with her H. She needs to look at all the available help on this board, read up on Plan A/B, POJA, LB, EN, I could go on and on. As I said before, we are almost 5 yrs post d-day. Plus, my H had many A's and I had 2, so we have both been on each side of the coin here.

We are all responsible for our own actions and how we handle the results of such actions. No two sitchs are alike, and should not be treated as such. There are many different variables, and personalities, and so the end result, although the goal of most is to rebuild their M, will be reached by many different avenues.

Again, I'm sorry for the suffering you've gone through, but try to be a little more understanding of others who ARE new to just finding out about the OC from their spouse's A. Also take into account that they may not be telling the whole story to keep their anonymity. We can only work with what we are given on a public board.

You said in your first post taht your H has cheated on you several times...now he has an OC from a past A...is he cheating on you NOW? What makes YOU so much stronger than you MIL...you have stayed with your own H thru multiple affairs...does that make you a weak person as well?

We are just trying to UNDERSTAND your situation so we can help you as best we can...but if you want to go, that is fine...But I think that you COULD get the help that you need here, but you ahve to be HONEST with everyone so they can help you!

And you need to stop blaming the OW for your H's actions...the only person who controls your H's actions is your H and NO ONE else...Maybe one day you will realize that!

trying~

I've learned to ask questions first instead of jumping to conclusions and making assumptions out loud. Trust me, I have a whole LOT of assumptions about this poster going through my mind, (ie. red flags), ALL of which could be wrong. So I asked her questions. I've also learned that it helps to know certain factors, in order to best help a poster. So I asked questions.

Further, if support means one is only allowed to agree with another, and let an absurd opinion go unchallenged, then by that definition, yah I guess I'm not very supportive.


~ad

Hope you're still reading, crazed.

I think the best place to start is reading through the MB website -- just plow through all the principles and concepts there. I'd then read their book, Surviving an Affair. It goes through the whole process of affairs and healing after them. Have you H read it, too.

I think that after doing so you may understand a little better some of the responses here, too. The material is very direct and pulls no punches. BS are held to account for the state of the M before the A -- not in the sense that it's their fault, but that very few As occur in perfect marriages. The fact that your H had several past As and you have discussed them rather flipply as (1) all men cheat and (2) he can't help himself, indicating that maybe to some degree you have enabled them to occur, if only by never requiring or expecting him to behave differently. For your M to get on the right track, you may both need to "get real" about what you expect from your M and then work on some new ways to make that happen. The Harley's offer phone counseling and it is really awesome, hands-on coaching on fixing your marriage given your circumstances.

As for what to do about the OC, that is truly up to the two of you -- read about the Policy of Joint Agreement in the Harley's principles to see what I mean. Everyone's circumstances are too different to say no matter what you should or shouldn't have contact with OC; only you can look at all the facts and make that call.

I hope you stick around; I really don't think there's a better place for you to find this kind of help right now! All internet forums can get a little strained sometimes; there's a lot that lost in translation to words on a screen. I assure you, even though the discussions can be pretty direct, no one is out to judge you or think badly of you!

WL~ You may want to change that to "not everyone is out to..."

Wouldn't want to be accused of making sweeping statements too, would you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Boy I do feel some love. I mean by my views and replies people are interested. But maybe I should kinda start over since by me jumping around the sitch has confused some (such as autumnday).
I guess my very first post was a little vague due to the fact I am very new to this message board thing. I just re-read my original post and I thought it was short but accurate. I guess my opinion on the OW was so strong because from my D-Day (April 18th) all I've heard is poor OW and OC. How awful for them. My D-Day was the first I had heard of OC. My H however knew from jump start but felt that since she hasn't asked him for anything even to see the baby he thought good chance (or really hoped) she may not be his. Remember no test done yet. When I first got the papers I was stunned and actually did feel for the Ow. I figured he had to be filling her head with words of love and promises of a future. I mean he is charming. But she was the one who told me he never claimed any emotions for her and told her repeatedly that he was not leaving his M. She was the one who got pg on purpose I feel hoping he would leave me. I did meet the OW and OC and she seemed nice and sorry for what she did. She said DSS made her file papers since she gets Medicaid and she needed the Medicaid. But now 4 weeks later she won't return my calls which tells me there is a snake in the grass somewhere. I mean we didn't fight or anything in our visit. I was way nicer then I should hsve been. I was mature. I just feel she's out for what she can get from H and me. It's not about the kid with her either. I mean how many OW have not been b*tches to the H and wife because they are mad that things are not going their way. Like under the circumstances they would. It just makes me mad that everyone blames the H when to me the OW's intentions are far worse. H usually just feels that we the wives will never find out. Not saying it makes it any more right but initial intentions to me mean the world of difference. Like I said all of it is wrong but I do feel that my H felt he was getting what he needed and was not placing his marriage in jeopardy. She was telling him all lies herself and in his stupidity he believed her. So she lied to him, he lied to me. It just goes on. As far as this not being the first time he's cheated I do hate to say no it's not. He was caught back in 1996 after messing with a co-worker (who was also M and H was in Saudi Arabia in Army). He was fired for the affair when our son was two weeks old. After that A he really seemed to realize the pain he had caused. I spent years reading everything on affairs and sexual addiction. I mean I studied trying to find any piece of mind that I could. He seemed to truly be sorry. He did get his job back and a couple years after that episode he was transfered to another town. I knew (or maybe just felt) that that would be the end of our M. I just felt if we were separated then he would cheat again. So I emotionally and sexually separated myself from him. I knew if it did happen again and I wasn't so shell shocked like before then I wouldn't go crazy again. But somehow in the separation I ended up pg again so I did eventually move with him. But I felt from the first moment I moved there that something was wrong. I knew he was cheating. I just felt it. But I thought oh well I don't care as long as he's here for the kids. But I still kept myself distanced from him. We didn't talk, have sex, or anything. Unless a kid was involved we were strangers. So I guess no I am not shocked he did it again. I know I am part to blame for that. He really did feel he was only getting emotional and physical needs met by her. I really don't think he even considered this to ever come up where I was concerned. Once we moved from that area the M got better. I feel mostly because I wasn't feeling icky everyday and I started acting like his wife again. We ended up pg again and all seemed well. I think he felt that because she hadn't asked for anything then none of this was a problem. I understand they remained phone buddies now and then so she could have at anytime asked him for money or visitation. She hasn't. He was just as shocked when those papers came to the door. No I am not saying he should have cheated. I am saying that I do realize I am a factor in the problem. I even had a small affair myself because we were so distanced at that time. Yes he knows of my A as well and it opened my eyes to the cheaters side. I finally realized all the stuff he had told me the last time. I never intended to leave my family or place anyone in danger. I knew somewhere deepdown I loved my H but I was in need of something. So I can look at this A in a different way only because I can see that sex does not mean he dosen't love and care for me even though by his actions it would say he didn't. I do fault him as well as OW. Trust me we have this talk every night about how I do feel this A may have caused our family to end. We are separated at the time. But I still feel her intentions were meliaceous. She wanted to hurt me and him. He never meant to hurt me or her. And still is not trying to hurt anyone. He thought he and her had a good relationship with no lies. She on the other hand just wants to screw with our M. I don't feel she's just out to get her D the family she deserves. If she was she would talk to me. She would be trying to work out something. I made it clear to her I was upset but I was still a mother myself. I was trying to be fair to her but she needed to be fair to me. I see now that for whatever reason she wanted to meet me she had some other reason then what she claimed. Maybe just curious. So when I lay a tad more blame on the OW it's not letting my H off of anything. I just guess intentions make the difference. He honestly wanted sex and a sympathetic ear. She wanted a baby and H hence knowing she was doing all she could to ruin a family. And please no one print "He ruined the family, not her. No one made him sleep with her" blah blah blah. No noone made him sleep with her. But can you blame a starving man for jumping on a cake when the cake portrays itself as a steak. He was lonely and horny and she made herself VERY available with lies and fantasy as well.
autumnday how are you seeing red flags on my post? Let me try and answer your latest questions.
When my dad kidnapped me I was 4. I do remember the day. He had hunted us down again wanting me and she told him to take me for a few days. She says now that she thought he would bring me back, he always did. She told me she did call the cops but they said if there was no court order on who had custody then he had as much right as she did to me. My father was strange. He had a government job (all I'm saying) and he made her life hell. I do remember my father leaving me at the wifes house twice. I have met all my siblings, but I was 4. I didn't mean that I hadn't met them just that I don't know them. My father only claimed me and my oldest brother. He use to say he didn't even know if the other four were his. My grandmother says that his wife was a big cheater herself. I don't know if dad had any contact with the others. He lived with me but would disappear for months on his "job". For all I know he could have been doing the double life thing you see on 20/20. My oldest brother (10 years my senior) moved with us to Seattle. He was old enough to make his own choice. And my dad always said he knew me and him were his kids. Maybe thats why we were his favorite. I don't know. I moved back south once my dad died. All of his family is here.
I don't mind hearing anyones opinion. I love peoples different view points. I just don't need someone telling me I'm evil because I guess they feel I should be this super woman and take this kid under my wing. I just feel that I wasn't consulted in the conception it's not my business other then where it hurts me taking care of ny family. This is OW's mess as far as kid and daddy go. I just don't get what jph thought I should do? She never gave much direction. She only liked the word mature and evil. I am here on my own free will and asking for you wonderful people to help me see insight. I know I opened myself up for a lot of sh*t when I posted. I really do not mean to offend anyone. Like I said nothing I say to any feedback is being attacking. However I do feel that some of the feedback has attacked me. So if I offend sorry. I hope this may have helped some understand my stich a little better. But if I've once again confused anyone then please ask away.

crazed Momma:

I understand your need to want to be heard.

Just a friendly suggestion so you can better accomplish that goal.

Please break your posts up into smaller segments.

Honestly,
ONE GIANT Long Paragraph is tough to read and Much Harder for readers to "get" what your trying to put out there.
Thanx

[color:"purple"] Uh yah that IS true about the one long post thing...it's kinda hard on the eyes. LOL

It's ok cm. Just take a deep breath.

I think you are trying.
I really feel for you. THe things you are saying aren't anything new (opinion wise) & I don't think your feelings & everything aren't anything ANY BW hasn't felt or thought herself, if she's being honest.

So where are you & H in the scheme of things now?

So you knew about his A w/ this girl but not about baby?
AND he was continuing phone C w/ her now & then you way?

THAT might be why she never asked for CS before....maybe the A wasn't really over all this time? @ the least he was continuing an emotional A. HE was keeping this child a secret from YOU for 3 years....uh hello? Why would he do that if you already knew about the A anyway?

That's fishy to me!

I understand your anger & the fact that you don't feel you ahve ANY obligation to this OC. I agree wholeheartedly w/ that fact. Of course if you want to stay married after all this & H wants to have OC in his lfe than you 2 have some serious discussing to do now.

He may very well been having a relationship w/ OC for the past 3 years....do you think that is a possibility?

Are you 2 IN marriage counseling now?
Do you plan on staying married @ this point or what?

I'm sorry that, w/ all you've been through, it has created quite a cynical side in you that you now believe EVERY man cheats. I began that same type of thinking in my mind after H A as well. I was becoming VERY cynical. But I no longer feel that way. It depends what you feed your mind w/.

What goes in, comes out. I began to look @ ALL the loving couples I did know. All the FAITHFUL couples & knew. Because they are there. NOT everyone cheats, although I do believe we are all capable of it, as Dr. Harley says in his books. Given the right situation & circumstances.....

But I know my dad never cheated, my grandfather never cheated, I can name more.

I hope you stick around. It's also true what tigger said, about what you dwell on...the same principle applies: garbage IN, garbage OUT.

Try to think on positive things.
You can control your thoughts.

Like you said, that you do not vent like this IRL.
BUT if you continue to dwell on it & be negative...it will shade your life that way. kwim?

Hang in there.
kt [/color]

crazedmomma,

Thanks for being honest. Like I said, I can't imagine what this is doing to you & your family. Well, in a way I can. I saw the he** my BIL went through, loving this child like his own, the child calling him daddy & then finding out this child was OM's. It was devastating for him.

I'm sorry you feel that every man cheats. I can a lot of people in my own life that haven't, older men that have died faithful to their W's after many yrs of M. But, I guess your view is skewed b/c of what you've been through most of your life.

I think I can understand why you feel that you have no connection to this child, but I think you're missing the fact that your children do & your H does. No, you didn't make the OW pregnant, not your choice, not your children's choice, that rests solely on the shoulders of your H & the OW; however, when this child gets older & then wants to go look for her father (I imagine it's much the same as an adoptee), looking for answers on why she was abandoned by her father, I hope you don't get the brunt end of it all, you end up being blamed for her father not loving her & being there for her.

I am not of the mind of "poor OW". I think women that are predators & go after M'd man w/a vengeance deserve the punishments they get, but who is being hurt in all this mess, really? You're an adult. You can walk away from your H at any time. I think I read that you're separated now. These children, yours & this OC, are all full of the same bloodline. Your H's. There's a part of him out there waiting to be loved. Maybe the OW can give her all that love on her own, maybe not. Maybe this child will grow up resenting her father b/c he chose to stay away from her, only providing financial support for her. Most children don't care about the $. They want the love from their parents. I wonder what goes on in these children's minds, 'Why do I have to suffer b/c of the crimes of my parents?' It truly saddens me.

I don't think you're an evil person. I just think you're confused, angry, hurt & looking for answers same as anyone faced w/your situation.

And for the record, my BIL has since D'd his W, still has contact w/his kids, including the OM's son, & met someone else who also cheated on him. So now his thoughts are pretty much like yours - that all WOMEN cheat. He's pretty much given up on women. He says staying single is a lot better than putting yourself out there to be hurt over & over again. He's pretty content just enjoying his kids when he has the chance.

I hope you can find some answers. Take care.

ETA: Thanks AutumnDay for recognizing that I have been here for a while. I usually post in Recovery forum only, but when I was browsing this morning, this post just struck me b/c of all the pain coming through in crazedmomma's post.

Thanks all. Sorry about the long posts. I'll work on that. To answer some of the questions asked in the last few responses.
I did not "KNOW" per say about this A. I had a feeling at that time that he was cheating just by his actions. I didn't get confirmation till I received the papers. I wasn't shocked about the A but I was shocked about the duration, the child, and other fine points. No he has not had a relationship with the OC. The OW has been mostly an emotional A for the past three years by the phone conversations. I was also told by both that she has driven here three times to screw him since we left her area. She says the last time being Sept 2003. I don't think he wants a relationship with OC. It's not my fault that he hasn't had a relationship so far so I don't feel I could be blamed later on. I mean he's known three years and never even met her. I believe that NC is best. This kids three and knows nothing of her father. If she ever has any questions about her daddy then it's up to her mother to explain how she was conceived. Of course I assume she'll lie. Just don't see her telling her d about how she degraded herself as my H ho. I do not feel my kids will suffer from not knowing her. Can't miss what you don't know. And as I've said before a sperm donation just does not make you family. So NO my kids at this point will have NC nor will I. If he does choose to start having a relationship with OC then I am out of here. I refuse to deal with any more then I have to. No we are not in counseling yet. Really don't have the money. Just paid attorney 1000 to file for cs and alimony. I am still working on what to do next. I'm just trying to protect my family now. I'll worry later about the rest.
Well let me go. Keep it coming.

cm, I just want to welcome you to the board. Sometimes we get people on this only want to judge and haven't been through this. Been here for years and at one point they gave us a *private* board b/c of the lurkers. Ignore them if you can.

I haven't read all those posts, esp. extra long ones. I don't think you're awful, You're doing the best you can under rotten circumstance, and putting your kids first. Be nice to yourself.

Prayers,
J

cm,

I don't think you're awful. I think you are hurt, shocked, in alot of pain and confusion. On that emotional rollercoaster where everything you "thought" you knew was wrong and everything you want to know seems evasive.

Don't make decisions now cm. Dr Harley suggests no major decsions for at least 6 months after discovery. Any chance your insurance may cover counseling? They usually won't cover the phone counseling offered here by the Harley's but it should cover some local providers.

You are doing the right thing by concentrating right now on your marriage and your family and getting legal help. Take some extra time to take care of yourself!!

CM, I hope you are ok! sometimes things people say are not meant to hurt you or demean you...I have said many a times that I was not coming back to this board because of something someone said to "hurt" me...but people do care and they are just trying to help.

We know you are shocked right now to say the least! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> But you will get thru this...We have all been there!

I have one question for you...you have said before you have 3 boys...but gave birth to four children <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> did a child die or something? Just want to clarify that part so we aren't confused by that! Take care

Thank you all once again. This has been a great emotional relief. I know some, probably a lot, are not going to agree with how I feel. I can’t help how I feel. I’m a nervous wreck right now because we go Thursday for paternity test. It’ll be the first time my H has seen the OC as well as the OW since she sold him out so to say. Even though I have met them I still don’t know how I will react now that I have come to realize she (OW) was a complete liar and more facts to the relationship has been revealed. I know I will most likely want to rip her head off but I am to old for that stuff.
To answer your question Momto3boys I have a 13-year-old daughter from my previous marriage. My H and I now how three boys. All are healthy. Let me ask you something. Did it bother you that the OW had the girl while you had all boys? My H and I even lost three boys in mis-carriage. No girls what so ever for us. I know that I am bitter that the ho got the girl. I see you recently filed for divorce. Was this because of the A and OC? I mean you filed almost exactly a month after baby was born. Just curious since we sound just like. I’m still unsure what to do. Divorce is still on the table. My H almost makes me feel as if I HAVE to file even though I don’t want one.
Talk to ya later.

I think it is only natural to feel resentment towards the OW no matter what sex the baby is...YOUR H is not supposed to be having children with other woman...Was I bitter that OW got the girl? NO, I was bitter because OW has what should be MINE...My H's baby...

My H and I decided when our last son was a year old that we didn't want anymore children...We were very happy with our three boys...I had a hysterectomy at that time..also due to other complications from my previous pregnancies...

What bothers me is that WE, as a couple decided TOGETHER not to have anymore children...and then he goes out and gets some other woman PG...I would be bitter no matter the sex of the child...

I filed for divorce not because of the baby...I was more than willing to accept the child into my home and life...I tried time and again to save this marriage...The OW works at one of H facilities and he refused to quit that job...going there once a week and seeing her...Eventually she would lure him back in...

I knew I had to file divorce..>I never wanted to and still do not want a divorce...but he gives me no choice...I cannot accept my H sleeping with another woman...He was out of the house for 5 months, before I filed...On April 13th after begging for ONE MORE CHANCE, I reluctantly let him back home...He kept assuring me it was over with her...We were filing for visitation rights and everything...I went to IC, he refused...Then one day he went to his "JOB" where she works...comes home and I KNEW something was wrong...he said he wanted tosee the baby...I said "OK, lets go see it" ...he said "NO, I want to see HER and the baby" and that was it...that was 3 weeks ago...

Now he is again begging to come back home...He says he doesn't know why he does this...He loves me and bla bla bla...I have reinstated the Divorce...I have told him the ONLY way we can reconcile is if he sells his practice and we move far away...So I told hijm to prove it that he wants to work it out...We go to court on July 7...

I am very damaged right now and honestly I dont think I could ever get ovre this if we were to reconcile...There will always be that anger...he has done a job on me...He is one of the worst WH's out there...I just cant live this way any longer...

I had to come to my OWN conclusion that I HAD to divorce this man...I WILL be ok...I KNOW I will...

sorry for the T/J...but you asked <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Momto3boys I feel you totally. However I do feel if the OW had had a boy it would be a little easier. I just feel that because she had the girl somehow I am going to have to file for divorce despite how much I don’t want to. All my H ever talked about was how much he wanted a girl. But at the same time in three years he has not had one thing to do with her girl. He says he never wanted a child by his mistress. That she took steps to change a relationship that meant nothing but sex to him and she knew it was only sexual. I’ve tried to see all of this in a different light but in the end I just feel angry and tired. I refuse to allow this child into my family or home. Sorry to all of those who feel I’m wrong. Get over it. I just refuse to play weekend mommy to someone I absolutely want nothing to do with. I don’t see why I should. I don’t see why any of you should. If your H’s want to play daddy to these mistakes (yes I said it) then let them do it without degrading you any more then they already have. And sorry but not every child born is a miracle and wanted. SORRY FACTS OF LIFE. By the way how do you women explain these other kids to people? I mean when your out and about with these OC and people ask who they are do you say “Oh this is my H’s mistresses kid that he had with her while cheating on me”. Just curious. I know the bitterness is showing. Sorry.
But I understand about the divorce part. I told my H he makes me feel as if I have no choice but to file for divorce. Like it’s something I MUST do now. I guess in the end the only one’s really hurt are our boys. Sorry I don’t have any feelings at this time for the OC. And please no one tell me how evil or wrong I am. I can’t help how I feel. And trust me I’ve tried. Cause like you said in the end we will be alright.

Crazed, if you want to divorce your husband just because he had a girl oc with this girl that is a pretty lame reason. He already has not shown anything for this child. He has told you he feels NOTHING. Your right it's not your problem regarding the oc. To be honest if it were me, I'd be worried about all the affairs my h had versus it being a girl. Is he willing to go to mc or ic? I hope that one day you can forgive this oc for what the her parents have done though as she is just as innocent as you and your kids and by saying that I'm not saying welcoming her with open arms.

I agree with you in the fact that you should get legally covered to protect your children and yourself!

Why should your childrens standard of living go down DUE to some unwanted child? Your children have to pay for the sins of the father- NO.

Your kids are the Primary, 1st Wanted children of this man, and should be taken care of FIRST and appropriately.
What ever is left over goes to the ******* child.

I think this is the only fair way.

YOU are only protecting yourself from the woman that is trying to ruin your childrens lives, thier feeling of security, thier needs not being met due to OW actions (like you said she choose to have her child-fatherless)

I understand how you feel......I don't care what they say MEN DO FEEL SOMETHING..........I am my own worst enemy and role play the different ways things could have played out and what would happen if things went differently....In my situation I would be more upset too if the child was a girl, because I didn't have it first or a girl at all....but yet I am angry that its a boy because I feel that it replaces my son so to speak...I guess its really a no win situation and either way we would fing fault in it. Best of luck and prayers from me!
Lara

Lara I have not read your story and all, so excuse me if I say something out of line, but there is no way that any child that your h produces could replace any of your kids!!!! Please remember that!

Larabell, I understand how you feel but agree w/needtomoveon also. Our middle child is a girl..."Daddy's girl" and I am worried that the fact that H has a girl w/OW she will feel "misplaced". But the reality is that she will always be Daddy's girl, especially because her Mom is the love of his life :-). I think that does make a difference. H will never have the relationship w/OC that his does w/our daughter even though he love and care for her too.

Crazesmomma,
I don't know if this will help you or not but read my post in: Realy need input fromthose w/ contact.