Hello I'm new to this board. Also from England if that makes any difference. I have been reading a lot of the posts here & one thing I think is different to my situation is that I haven't met OC and don't want to. Also that my husband - although still with me and not wanting to live with OW & OC is not sure that he really is committed to me - so I am still in limbo. I could say a lot more but I will leave it to see if anyone would respond as at the moment I feel that I am just on my own. BTW I have 3 children - 2 with my husband the oldest from prev. marriage who thinks of my H as her dad.

WYSI,

hi there. you are not alone. and whats better is that i am in england too.

I am a BS. We do have contact with the OC. It is a battle at times.

How long have you known about the OC?

Carolyn

Hi WYSI, I am a BS with an OC as well. I too have never met the OC, though I want to. OW still wants a relationship with my H and so far has fought me meeting the OC. It has been a long 2.5 years but my H is finally recommitting to the M and me. The OC is just over a year if that gives you any idea what I have been through. You are not alone.

Thank you both for your fast replies. I have been with my H for 18 years but only married for 5. He started his affair 3 yrs ago - it went on for abt a yr - supposedly finished then she found out she was pregnant. they got a flat together (although he never moved in) & he told me Nov. 04. expecting me to throw him out. I didn't. Since then he has stayed with me but visits OC abt every 2 wks. We went through a lot of struggles - tried couselling - but at the end of the dsy he is still not ablr to say what he really wants.
I know he doesn't want to live with OW & OC - or else he would be there. But he is not really remorseful abt situation or trying to make me feel that I am the most important thing. Has lied to me since. So why do I put up with this?

In 18 yrs I think 15 were mostly good. I think I could deal w anything if he was really committed but I know he is not.

OC is abt 15 mths now (and BTW his mother thinks she's great & has OW & OC to visit her & family!)

OMG, I think your MIL is the Brit version of mine! MIL made friends with OW. The OW/OC visit her even though she never sees MY kids anymore. I don't speak to MIL anymore.

Read up on the site and the Harley concepts. You have a fighting chance for your M to succeed. Don't give up yet. My H is made a lot of changes recently and is finally seeing the OW for what she is.

Hi Wysi
I also have NC, and you will find many others on here that are the same way. I use to feel some guilt about it, till I found this site and found so many in the same boat as me and it helped alot, OC just turned a year old last weekend and we still have not seen her not even from a distance.
In alot of ways I was glad that my H chose NC, as long as he made the decision based on what he wanted and not on what he thought I would of wanted him to do. I tried my darnest to make sure that I would support him in either decision, he chose NC and secretly I am happy about it.

The inlaws part bites, it is no wonder some people are so mixed up with the way their parents are. Lets just hope that with our children we can teach them to break the cycle and put things back to the way they should, family values. It is going to be tough for you guys with his family putting there noses where it dont belong, that is your guys business and they should be there to support you guys in whatever you two decide. And they should be cheering you on and not the OW.

Sorry to hear hubby is still in limbo..... I hope that he comes to a decsion soon for your peace of mind. Your still new in recovery, so dont give up just yet, stay firm on your rights to be treated with respect, dignity, and loved, but also let your hubby know that you are willing to forgive and move on if he is willing to put his work into it along with you. It probably seems bleak now but there is a light at the end of the tunnel if you both continue to dig your way thru.

It is good to know I'm not alone & that some people have such similar situations (including the deranged MiL!). One thing I didn't make clear perhaps is that although I haven't seen OC my H visits her about once every 2 weeks and this is a cause of a lot of tensions etc. If he had wanted NC I'm sure we would have moved on a lot further by now - it is usually after his visits that he gets emotionally upset & takes it out on me - behaving as though I am the one who has done something wrong.

Anyway - thanks to all again for responding. I will spend some time reading around this site as I'm sure there will be things that help here. I just feel that if I had known I would still feel like this & be in such an uncertain position 19 months after he told me that I would have thrown him out then.

I think that right there is what is slowing down the recovery of your marriage. 2 question on it to clear something up about it.
1. Is he really not trying to show you how sorry he is and doing everything in his power to help you find emotional closure, to show that he loves you and that his marriage comes first? If so then he does need to work on that to make you feel safe and loved so you can heal and move on.

or

2. Have you built around your heart so strong that even tho he is trying really hard, but the fear of the pain you cant see around and even slightly try to trust him, or start the steps to forgive him? It is also understandable.... I about had a panic attack of even thinking about forgiving my husband!!!! The fear of being hurt again was to great! If this is the case then you need to willing let him slowly pick away at that wall. The big question I asked myself was I able to forgive him, I didnt know the answer but knew I had to try or let him go.

But I get impression that the first one is the case by some of your comments that he is not showing remorse for causing you pain, he needs to show you remorse for at least having the A. without it you will find it hard to forgive him and get the marriage back on the right track. Sweeping it under the rug is just letting it build up.

It dosnt look like there is anything still going on with the OW at least you dont give no hints with that and looks like it is over that is a good sign.

If he showed you what you needed in getting emotional closure would you slowly try to accept his OC? There is no right or wrong answer for that, just what works for you. The anger could be from you not wanting to try for a realationship, which if he would put his marriage first and then once you are comfortable he can slowly bring the OC in, he brought this on himself and now he needs to fix it and not get angry with you.

You two did the first important steps, the A has ended and you stayed and he stayed, now just to find the path to lead to the healing and rebuilding.

Dear WYSI,

I may offer a perspective you may or may not want, but here goes:

The fact that he is still living with you is a good thing if you really still want to be with him. I know from experience that he was SHOCKED that you stayed. After my cheating and hiding a daughter for 4 years. I thought there was no way that my wife would want to stay with me.

First thing first, protect yourself.
If he was anything like me, you need to make sure you know where the money is. Pull a credit report, see if their are any "EXTRA" credit cards you don't know about.
Cash was always my favorite way to go. So look for additional bank accounts.
His car or attic, shed, or garage is the most likely place to hide things like pictures of his OC or financial stuff. Others can give you more advice on the money matters. LynnG seems to have this down to a science.

Don’t be tempted to discard pictures of OC or use them as weapons. I am sure he has a feeling of OVERWHEMING reasonability and guilt when it comes to his OC. I did and still do. He will see you as the stronger of the 2 and quickly come to the OC defense. If you can muster it, and it’s a TALL order, try to acknowledge his feelings for his OC. I know he should be there for you first, but if he is unable/unwilling, this could be a way to break him down so that he will start to open up. Somebody has to be the “Hero”, it may have to be you.

You may start to hear how “you did this, and you did that”, but deep down inside, he knows HE had the A. You and Him will have to find out where the emotional needs broke down.

Here is the not so good news:

In the beginning I would have left the W if she had uttered the words. “It’s me or the OC”. Without a second thought, I would have left.

What changed me were the books “Love and Respect and His Needs/Her Needs” and this board. My wife and I are still not out of the woods, but are in much better shape today.
Yesterday was bad, but today is good. It just kind of seems to go that way.

What He and you will gain from those books is the knowledge of what each of you needs.
I always use to tell the W, “Your selling apples, and I want oranges”, Of course at the same time, “I was selling oranges, and she wanted apples”.

I wish you the best.
TroubledH

Read this whole site. Everything that the Harleys have written. Then read it again. Print it out.

You need to set some boundaries here. His having contact is upsetting you. Explain it to him. These decisions need to be made openly and totally honestly, no holding back. This is not the time to bury your needs and wishes for your life. Nor he. He is forcing you to accept his seeing the oc, without even a thought or care for what it does to you. The oc is not the only one who gets a piece of the hurt pie.

GET A LAWYER NOW. Start protecting yourself and your finances. Knowledge is power and you will be much better off knowing where you stand. You are to good to live in limbo. Let him know that while you want to rebuild the marriage, that it takes two, and that as long as he is not showing or doing what you need, you may need to move on. That you are NOT going to live your life on hold any longer.

I know that TH said that he would have left his wife had she said oc or me. Well, I can tell you that I did pretty much tell my husband from the get go, that the oc would never be allowed anywhere near my family, my home or in my life. That he was free to go and be daddy, but that we would divorce immediately. He agreed that contact with the oc was asking way to much from me and our family. No offense, TH, but with your attitude about leaving your wife if she said , that shows how little you love or remotely care about her or your family. THEY have feelings and needs too, and the oc does not supereced them. Had my husband even balked at my request, it would have been quite obvious that he was not worth my time anymore, and that my children deserved more and he would have been out the door so quick.

You do not have to sit down and bow to this man. HE has created this mess, and you do not have to sit back and take hit after hit. Talk to him. Tell him how you feel. Be totally honest. If he doesn't respect how you feel, then when does he respect you? And TH is wrong when he says that you have to awknowledge his feelings for the oc. Sorry that is an issue that comes AFTER he has awknowleged that pain and hurt he has put in your lap. AFTER he has put his marriage first. If he shows no empathy for his actions, and no remorse for the damage he has done, he is not worth putting forth the effort.

Do not let this man use the "best for the oc" crap on you. That is a manipulative game that somehow is meant to paint you as the bad guy. Don't bite. The oc is not part of your marriage. Either you want contact or you don't. Either way, it has to be BOTH of you one way or another. If he insists, and you dont want to, then what? Are you willing to sacrifice your life and those of your children all to make one person (oc) happy? Or are you going to slowly simmer in anger at the total lack of care and respect?

I see nothing wrong with saying oc or me. It is a realistic feeling. I would have never subjected my children to the Jerry Springer aspect of having an oc around to explain to their friends. I would have divorced in a nano-second had my husband put the oc above me and my child. It IS/WAS me or oc. Nothing wrong with that.

Read this site and learn YOUR Needs first. YOU matter and what YOU want counts. YOU do not need to lower your standards to accomodate HIM. HE should be doing everything in his power to make this easy on you,and he should know how you feel about the oc. If he still puts oc first, you then know what kind of man he is and will have to decide if you want to spend your life with him.

The oc is not the only one that has been affected adversely by this.

YOU MATTER.

Lynn,

I did not say she HAD to do anything. What I was trying to say was that if she REALLY wanted him, it was an option to consider. There is a time to use a softer touch, there is also a time to use a hammer!

She has every right, and the moral position to tell him to take a hike. I would not fault her for it.

wysi,

As far as getting a Lawyer, I would agree with that. You should know where you stand; your H will be forced to respect your position of strength. I did when I found out my W seen a lawyer.

TH

It is mostly 1 I think - but sometimes a bit of 2 because of 1!



I believe abt 99% that the A is over - but also that she still wants him & will do anything to get him back (I mean - she apparently feels there's 0 wrong with being paraded round in front of MiLs family!) I am not entirely sure what he actually feels abt her.


I don't know the answer to this but if he showed me I could trust him again I would not rule anything out. But SLOWLY is the key.

Anyway Thunderstorm thanks for your post I think these are all very relevant points.



LynnG - these parts of your post really resonated with me. for example - when I asked him what OWs family etc feel abt him the answer is "they just want what's best for OC & OW". I wonder who is putting MY children & ME first? Just because OC is the youngest & cutest I don't see why she should get top priority.

*********************

The responses here & things on the rest of this site are really useful. I was thinking abt asking H to read some of the approaches as I do think it could help us. That might mean he reads the forum - do you think that's a good idea? Do you encourage your H to read what you write about yr own situation?

Yes, do encourage your H to read the site. I hope by now you have gotten Surviving An Affair for both of you to read as well. Both of you should read the basic concepts of the site before really delving into the forum.

TH, you have come a long, long way my man. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes I did incourage my H to read some of the post.

I did it basically to show that everything I said was normal, that every reaction I had was what everyone went thru, that I wasnt over reacting with my feelings on things cause all BS felt that way.

He was able to see the pain that affairs did to the spouse from others who was able to express it better then me.

It also showed him that the things he was doing to try and correct his marriage was the right way.

Thanks for clearing it up I had the feeling it was mainly one too, and that little bit of two came in because of one.


I have been screaming that one from the top of my lungs since the day we found out!!!!! I am still trying to figure that one out and fighting for what should be the right way. So all I could say for now is I understand what you are feeling.

As you seen on the post with TH, you will see your answers too, that the marriage needs to be fixed before you even need to consider anything else. The marriage need to come before anything else!!! Hopefully your husband reading some post would make him realize what he needs to do and all honestly what pain you are going thru.

YOU NEED TO BE THE ONE TO PUT YOUR CHILDREN FIRST. That is why this is so important. Your husband has already proven to you that he is not a worthy father to his children with you. THEY NEED YOU, since they obviously can't count on their father.

YOU need to get a layer, get educated and learn and speak what you will and will not have in your life. HE chose to cheat and seems to expect you to deal with it. HE should not be allowed to control and abuse you anymore. TELL HIM YOUR NEEDS. LISTEN TO HIS. Then YOU decide if this man is worth your time or not.

As long as he keeps seeing the oc, you are being abused by a selfish man. When does he start putting conditions on his own children? When does he demand the accept the oc or he leaves???? That is not NORMAL. That is ABUSE.

Having oc's is not a normal, healthy event in a family. It is a tragic result of lies. It creates mistrust and anger, and the oc, gets a piece of the hurt pie too. Your children have to miss out on financial advantages, you have to deal with the hurt. If the oc grows up without a daddy, so be it. That is their piece of the hurt pie, and there are only TWO PEOPLE TO BLAME, and it sure isn't you.

Until this man can treat you with kindness, love and respect, and listen to your hurt and pain, and really consider your needs, you really don't have much to deal with. His family membership needs to be re-evaluated. Is a man who lies and cheats and abuses his wife and children worth this?

Read this whole site and learn. But the main thing is respect yourself enough to NOT LET THIS MAN CONTROL YOU FOR ONE MORE MINTUE. Protect your precious babies, and that might even be from MIL. As long as she disrespects you, then she should be kept away from them. No birthday, holiday invites to granny if she is so rude. What good is she to them if she participates in hurtfull acts that attack your family?

STAND TALL AND FIGHT BACK. You would be surprised how being totally honest in what you want/expect will slam home the reality of the situation. Tell him what you will/will not accept and leave the ball in his court.

wysi,

I think you may want your husband to read parts of this site but keep in mind. If you need your own private safe haven to come to , for venting purposes, try to keep your ID on here from him.

Sometimes we say things here like "today I really hate him, and if it werent for needing money he would be gone" Now realistic aspect is someone was prob just blowing off steam that day or week and would never want her husband to read that.

I know you can say things here that you may later regret farther in your healing process. Not to us because you can say anything to us like you wish everyone would die, ect... we wont take in a bad way we have all been there and done that... but your H or someone else in real life may not understand.

I am just letting you know that some times we jump the gun.

Just a note here. My oldest DD17 was an OC. Her Biological F married someone else when I was 7 1/2 months pregnant with her. He never told me he was getting married and saw me just a few days before the marriage. (It was in a foreign country and he kept 2 lives).

To make a long story short. He paid a pittance of child support ($90 monthly). I thank God that he didn't participate in her life as it's made it much easier to move on. My H adopted her years ago; DD sees my H as her only dad and has no desire to see BioF...nor do I.

In the long run, it made life much easier to have NC.

THANK YOU! From one that has chosen NC it is good to hear something like that to ease the doubts that the decision we made on NC is right and wont come back years later and bite me in the butt.

Well I have finally come to the end of my tether. I had decided a week or so ago that I would give H one last chance to work at the marriage. Last night I spoke to him about this site & how I wanted us to work on the marriage and if it didn't work then split in a civilised way. I told him abt some of the basic comcepts and he acted interested & said he would.

Today he went to visit OC. He told me yesterday - after our talk - that he would leave at around 7 then phone or txt to say he was on way back. It is now 11.30 & no word. I have phoned him & txt him to say - what is going on. No response.

So when he turns up tomorrow (or if?) I am going to tell him to leave. This amount of disrespect is too much. Please can somebody tell me how to get through the next stage of this & how I should tell my children (12 & 14).

wysi,
Hello there.
I remember feeling hopeless like you do now.

Adding insult to injury is your MIL~ I would have died a little further had my in-laws been accepting of this immoral type of life. They never ever once even considered oc a part of them. Oc was a part of ow, and her kids and her h. Not biologically, but in a way to keep the peace of life in this madness. Shame on them for allowing your h a place to show off . What about your other kids?

Tonight would have been the final straw.

Why should you leave? Get a lawyer. Ask him to leave. Draw a line in the sand on what you are willing to do or not do. What is or not totally unacceptable to you.

You count.

Your feelings matter.

Whether in England or here in the U.S.A. infidelity hurts everyone surrounding the lies.

You may not want to tell your children just yet. Do they know how Grandma is acting?

Let them know there is a problem but it's not them.

If your h wants his wife, then he'll quit playing house w/ow/oc. You need a marriage healing before anything else can get better or negotiated with your h.

Harleys counseling is the best, even if it's only for you.

If you both agree, great.

I will close by telling you my prayers are with your misshapen heart.
Blesings~

Oh wysi I am so sorry to hear that your H did that to you after the talk and getting the hopes up. I know you have been in such pain for so long (I remember you from another forum), I can feel your pain when I read your posts.

I am sure that there will be plenty of help on here to help you get thru this.

I would at first just tell the kids that there is some adult issues and for now you feel it is best that you two seperate, assure them of your love, I would make the H tell them the reason why.

My heart goes out to you and I am sure that soon you will become a stronger person and go to have a happy life.

Hugs

{{Wysi}} I am so sorry. I am glad though that you know how much you can take. I am afraid I never really knew where to draw the line in the sand. Your kids are old enough IMHO to know the truth. Just that daddy had an inappropriate relationship with another woman and a child was born. Tell them that you and daddy love them both very much and that will never change.

Hello everyone thanks for your support. I know I will need it for a while. H arrived home late last night - drunk & abusive. I told him to get out & he refused. This morning we agreed that it was the end of our M - he accepted he wasn't prepared to make the effort. I wish he had had the guts to admit this 19 months ago when he told me abt the A & the pregnancy.

Anyway we told the girls that we were going to separate (they did already know abt the A & OC - we told them abt that a year ago & at that time that we wanted to stay together.) I guess it wasn't a complete shock to them - they would have been aware of the atmosphere & my sadness. H is going to find somewhere to stay - I have said asap as it is impossible for me to relax with him still in the house.

I am prepared to act civilised in front of the girls & to try & arrange things to make it as easy as possible for them. But inside I am furious with him for everything he has done, for wasting so much of my time & energy pretending he wanted to make it work. I did hope that I had already gone through a lot of the pain & loss but right now I'm not sure.

Glad to hear back from and that you have stood your ground, I hate to see a marriage end but I do think that you did try long enough to try and make it work.

Marriage is a 2 way street and it dosnt seen your H was a willing partner in the marriage. I have been hearing the pain in your voice and I think down the road we are going to finally hear some happiness.

Even tho you have known for a while that it probably wouldnt make it, it still going to hurt cause now it is final. But concentrate on your girls, and pamper yourself, you deserve it. Find things that make you happy and turn back into a stronger person then before this happened.

I am surprised the girls were not shock either, they did feel the tension in the air, no matter how hard you try to hide it they pick it up, probably noticed dad not coming home was another good hint. In some ways this will be better for them cause your H was not teaching them how to let a man treat them. They will see you get stronger and see what it takes to be a strong woman and how to survive.

I would set a certian amount of days for him to leave, dont let him dray this on forever.

Hugs and will be thinking of you

wysi,
Well I think it's for the best right now. You and your c's do not need more tension with all thats been going on for 19 months.

Your h may change his mind while living w/o his family.
It happens sometimes.
Now is the time to become a more independent person. Keep good care of your c's and yourself. It may be hard at first, but things will fall into place.

If your h and you ever do consider reconciliation you will have to have things ready to tell him about what you can or cannot live with.

Right now though take care.

One question. How do your c's feel about how grandma is acting? Just wondering how a MIL can be so cruel to a DIL and her feelings, along with her grandchildren's feelings.

Blessings.

Thunderstorm & Gemini1
thank you for your supportive words. I really feel I am in mourning now - but I know I am grieving for the person he was, the relationship we used to have - not the person he became once he started deceiving me. He actually had the gaul to suggest that me looking through his things (after he had confessed the A but lied abt the extent & seriousness of it ) saying that that "hadn't helped"!

I feel v sad & lonely right now but I wouldn't have him back. I would only have back the person that I love(d) - & he has been buried under this horrible new persona. OK maybe this is the real him - but it didn't seem that way for at leat 15 yrs.

Re yr Q . abt MiL - youngest D saw photo of OC on grannies phone & was v upset. As she said re MiL - "I hate her & love her @ the same time. I am angry w her but can't talk to her abt it." This is also how she feels abt her dad.

MiL & family don't live too near us - & I haven't allowed MiL to stay in my house since she set up relationship with OW & OC - so I don't think it will cause much disruption if they don't see H side of the family in the short term. In the longer term - who knows? This is all such a mess & I am in danger of rambling on.

I have lined up a couple of really good friends who won't mind if I call them up & rant at any time.

Last thought - I stripped the bed today knowing that is the last time I will change the sheets that H & I slept in together. That made me feel v sad.

Awwww.... It'll be okay, I'm sure your friends will help lift you over the hurdles.

I understand the *sheets* thing... I sniffed h's pillow each night he was away even though I hated him/loved him/hated him.

wysi, I hate it that your mil did this to your c's... h-a-t-e.... it is amazing when a relative comes to the rescue of a ws and how it gives them steam to carry on in spite of everyone they steamroll over.It's a double tragedy for your c's if nothing else. Besides your h, shame on her! She's allowing abnormal life happenings to become acceptable, tsk, tsk, tsk.

Rest assured your life will take on many changes both physical and mental in the coming months, but you will be ok.

You have endured hel* for so long you may have forgotten normal, but gradually it will return, and embrace it, welcome it, you deserve it.

I'm pulling for you here and hope your h is gone asap!

Right now, he deserves nothing more from you.

Go ahead and mourn.

Brighter days are coming for you.
Pray for God to show you the path to take and be patient....

((((hugs))))

Right now I feel that I was right to tell H to get out asap on Sunday. He left Monday - looking a little surprised that I didn't say he could stay in spare room until he was sorted. Does he really think I should consider his feelings & concerns after the past 3 yrs (since A started) and past 19mths (since he has been pretending to me that he wanted to make it work)? Well - I know I am feeling boosted tonight since talking to my family & friends who understand that I did everything I could (apart from becoming a complete doormat) to work on our relationship & recover it. What is most sad is that everyone has said that they thought we were made for each other. Which is what I thought - and why I spent so long trying to retrieve the situation.

I know I will come back here when the pain gets too much. But I am going to continue to try to move forward. Maybe one day I can help others the way I am being helped.

BTW - I know a lot of people here take great comfort from their religious beliefs and I think that is a really positive thing. I myself do not have a belief in any god - but I do believe in basic humanistic and moral codes - to me the most important is "treat others as you would like to be treated".

Oh-oh. Roller-coaster again. Felt strong yesterday - today I feel like a worm.He has taken kids out to eat this evening - which is fine. Now he is an hour late bringing them back. They have school in morning. Now - do I ring him? Makes me feel like when he said he would be home & wasn't. Is he now going to use them as pawns? I feel like I am the most stupid person ever to have loved this man. But believe me he wasn't always like this.

wysi I hope the c's are home by now~

In any event, just ask a time when he'll be dropping them off and casually say you want to be sure to be home when he gets there.

If he asks where you're going, tell him shopping, or dropping by a friends or nothing at all, just that you want to make sure you'll be there when he gets back.

It's learned behaviour, your feeling like he didn't come home when he said he would.
It's a terrible way to feel and as you get stronger, it won't matter any longer.

It's ok whatever you believe hon, I am still asking the Lord to help you along. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ok?

Tx Gemini . Girls home now. H acting mature (I do mean "acting"). Will just keep on moving on. Sorry - bad day. I wanted this M I wanted the man I knew for so long. I know I will never trust a man again. And I am not the sort of person that wants to be by myself. This is sad.

Just checking in again as it really does help to know that other people have been through the same pain. I guess I need to move to the divorcing board now! It is clear to me that the person I loved is not there anymore - H behaviour when he has taken girls out & brought them back is astoundingly immature and unfeeling. He asked me if the girls could stay over w him on Saturday - so I asked where he was staying. (Turns out he is house-sitting for a friend who has a few properties). He said - "why - don't you trust me?"!!!!
I still feel v sad about what we did have, and what is lost He obviously has put that out of his mind. That makes me feel that 18 yrs of my life has been obliterated. But I am sure that I do not want the person he is at the moment. And I really do hope that one day he realises what he has done.

I know you are hurting for what has been and what it use to be.....

but since you made your decision, I do see more strength in messages. more hope for happiness.

Keep moving forward hun, I am behind you cheering all the way for you to be happy.