Looking over some of Dr. Harley's articles and letters, I came across this and thought it would be a good thing to discuss. I've seen many different recommendations regarding this presented on the site - everything from tell the OC as soon as they are able to understand the issues to don't tell the OC until they are at least 18. Dr. Harley advocates telling the OC the truth at a very young age. My questions are:

1. How does one know when the OC is old enough to understand?

2. How does one explain the situation in a way that will make sense to them?

3. How do you tell a very young OC about their biological parent if that person isn't a part of their lives?

I've heard before that it would be best for the OC to always have the knowledge of their parentage, to grow up with this knowledge as a part of who they are, but I haven't quite figured out how to do that when the OM in our case is not part of her life and isn't someone she knows. My OC is 2 1/2 now, perhaps a little young to understand still, but that day is coming and I have no idea how to approach this topic when it does. It seems much easier to make the situation known if the OM is part of her life, but much more difficult to do so when he isn't.

this is a tough question

1 - for me, in situations such as yours i would think sometime around the age they start pre school or kindergarten.

at that age they will be interacting regularly with other kids who come from different family situations

it seems a perfect time to start explaining the different forms a family can take

2 - i don't think you try and explain the oc part at that time since they will most likely not be able to put teh 2 concepts together. that would come later when they start to realize time lines of your marriage and their birth

3 - you can tell them that they have a father who had to go away for whatever reason. work, military, etc. as they grow you can add more pieces to the puzzle

The only problem with this is that it's not actually true. My OC's father went away because he didn't want his ex-wife and daughters to know that he got me knocked up when he was still married, and because I chose to stay with my H and not get a divorce too and raise the baby with him. Not sure how I would tell that to a 4 or 5 year old.

Ugh. I really hate this part. But my OC will be 3 in September, and the day of reckoning is starting to look so much closer.

Writer, what about just saying your bio dad was not around because he made other choices. Then reassure the child that while bio dad may have chose not to be there for whatever his reasons you and dh are and love them very much.

Why not give Dr H's radio show a call?

BD/biodad went back home after school was done. This is not lying. This is age appropriate. It's not lying.



At 2 1/2, mommy had an affair.

What's an affair?

Mommy had a boyfriend while married to BH/stepdad and had sex with BD/OM.

Isn't daddy your BF?
How do you have two BF?
What's sex?

When you have to explain your answers with in depth responses it's a good indication that the level is above the childs/OC age level.

When a child knows that moms are not suppose to have BS's when married
When a child knows what sex is
When a child knows where babies come from
When a child knows what an affair is
When a child knows what adutlery is

When knowing what these words mean is when the child will be ready to hear you say them. Pointless to give them an answer that they will not be able to understand.

Well I don't have an OC, so maybe I don't have the best advice to give, but I do have a child that is not my H's and we have been through infidelity and my five year old son knows and understands both of the concepts very well. I didn't have my bio-dad around when I was little either and I grew up with the knowledge too. I never had any issues with it, but my friends that weren't told until later in life that the person that they thought was their bio-mom or dad really wasn't had major issues with it. It completely destroyed their trust in their parents.

There are a number of ways that you could explain it that would be age appropriate for a child. Dr Harley says that any child over 4 should be included in any sort of exposure so I figure that age would be appropriate for this too. That's when my son started asking questions about babies and where they come from anyways.

We told my son that babies grow in their Mommy's tummies, and that they get there when a Daddy puts them there. (It helped that we had a baby on the way at the time but I'm sure most kids ask this at some point). He asked if Daddy put him in my tummy. We told him that Daddy put his sister in my tummy, but that someone else had put him in my tummy, and that Daddy loved him so much that he wanted to keep him forever and be his Daddy anyway. My DS that thought was amazing, that his Daddy chose him, he didn't have to be his Daddy and he loved him so much that he wanted to be anyway.

DS has asked me since then where the guy is who put him in my belly if Daddy didn't do it. We told him that the guy who put him there didn't come around us, but that we loved him and it was not his fault. The guy who doesn't come around is the one who is missing out.

The adultery thing was actually pretty easy to explain. We told him that people who are married love each other in special ways and that when you get married you make a promise not to love anybody else in those special ways. Mommy and Daddy broke that promise and hurt each others feelings. He also knows that one of the special ways that married people love each other is how babies get in a Mommy's tummy and that you don't HAVE to be married to love each other that way but that it's best if you are married. He knows I loved somebody besides Daddy that way and that is how he got in my belly, but that I wasn't married to Daddy when I did that. For an OC you could just say that yes you were married when that happened but that Daddy still loves both of you.

My DS asks a lot of questions, and I just try to answer him honestly and use words that he can understand. I don't set out to have a big talk about it, and I let him decide when he is ready. If he is old enough to know to ask the question then I think he is old enough to be given a truthful answer, just simplified to where he can understand it.

RFA, this is very astute of you to realize and I agree 100%. I was also misled in many ways when I was a little girl and learned early on that it was ok to be dishonest when it suited you. I also can affirm that as a 4 year old, I did understand the concept of adultery. Even though adultery was taught to me as an acceptable lifestyle, I did sense something was very wrong. Unfortunately, since no adult validated that instinct, I concluded what was wrong was ME.

writer, I don't know if a 4 year old would understand the concept of bio-dad, but I know that I did understand the concept of adultery when I was that age.

Thanks everyone who has chimed in so far.

This is such a difficult road to navigate. I want to do what's best for my daughter, but it's so hard to know what that is.

There has been a lot of pressure from family to tell/not tell. My older daughter (20) thinks we should tell OC the truth as soon as she's old enough to understand. My MIL doesn't think we should ever tell her the truth. Then there's everything in between.

Secrecy is very big on my H's side of the family. My SIL still doesn't know that my MIL was married before she met my FIL and that my H has a different bio-dad than she does, and she's 34. My MIL has a heart attack if anyone slips and accidentally says something that might clue my SIL in to the situation. She has made my H swear he won't tell his sister the truth, at least until after she's dead. They are not a very O&H family, and it's very difficult to deal with.

That's definitely not what I want for my OC. But I also don't want to tell her something at an age when she isn't capable of understanding it.

I don't think you can go wrong if you tell her too early, writer. It won't harm her if she doesn't understand. She will just think it over and ask questions when she does understand it more. You know her better than anyone and will be the best judge of when she can understand it. Even so, it won't be the end of the world if she doesn't quite get it then.

Your dear child is 2.5 years old.
So, my assumption is you are preparing the way for some distant future discussion.

Right off the bat I will say to you, Writer, I am certain that you and your husband will do just fine. Better than fine. I trust you.

You know, both our kids are adopted. Same drug addict bio Mom.
I waited and waited to share the gory details to our oldest, our son.
In fact, it wasn't until we were in the presence of a psychiatrist (whom I later grew to distrust) that she basically forced my hand to tell him right then and there the details of his birth mother's life. Not just the fact that she was a heroin addict, but other really unsavory details that, in retrospect, did our son NO GOOD WHAT SO EVER.

My biggest regret is not saying to the MD:

"Ya know, I think I want to discuss this with my husband first." .... and WALK OUT.

But, that is 20/20 hindsight.

So, my first bit of experienced advice is .... share this decision/responsibility with your husband. She is his daughter too.

My second bit of advice is to be cautious of the opinion of others, including professionals. Listen to others, but make your decisions the MB way POJA !

My third bit of advice is to share that the early teen years is probably NOT the best time to have this discussion. In our case, our son learning the ugly truth (at age 13) about his bio mom triggered years of self loathing & acting out that was just horrible. Avoid this timing if at all possible.

Yes, our kids knew they were adopted since early years.
I bought children's books about adoption & read to them. All light and fluffy stories, mostly, that the bio mommy was unable to care for them and with all the love in the world sadly gave up the beloved baby. Not really descriptive of our bio mom.

How does a parent decide to tell her child their missing parent killed themselves?
(Someone I know is dealing with this)
Or killed someone else?
(In prison for felony DUI manslaughter)


You see, this question of when to reveal adult facts to a young mind is not such a singular problem as you may think.

I may think of other things to add.

You know when this will "come up", don't you?
I forget which grade it is, first grade I think, when the kids are asked to make their "family tree".

Our family tree did not look different from any other child's, just because our kids did not enter the world via my uterus.

You might want to bring it up then. Use the "family tree" as an entry point.
But, as a sort of side bar discussion after DD brings the "family tree" home from school.

You may also want to investigate adoption books and see if any of them can be modified, just a little, to reflect her birth story. I mean, you can edit the reading of a book to your advantage.

Thanks Pep.

I think I was trying to figure out what "from a very young age" meant. Is it 4 or 5? Because that isn't terribly far away at all. Heck, it seems like just yesterday that she was born, and she'll be three in a couple of months. Is it 6 or 7 or even 8, which is more along the lines of what I was originally thinking, since she would be much more capable of understanding then.

I agree that the early teen years would be the worst possible time. I've been through them 4 times already, and those aren't easy years even under the best of circumstances.

I will look at some adoption books and see what I can do with them. That's a good suggestion.

Our son never wanted to meet bio mom.
Our daughter did, but no more.
He is 25, she is 21.

The question of other half siblings will arise once your DD is older.
My children were far more interested in possibly meeting their half siblings ..... the bio mom had NINE children the last I heard. Custody of zero.

I told them that once they were BOTH 18, if they had a desire to do the work to meet their half siblings, I would assist them, but I would not do this work entirely for them. It would be their responsibility, but I would help.

(Kids are lazy and self involved at that young adult age, so if you really want to delay something, make it their responsibility to do at least some of the difficult footwork! LOL)

I'm still waiting for my kids to volunteer to investigate their half siblings, their bio mom, or dads.

Aren't I one manipulative mother?

I understand your plight, writer. I, too, have thought about how I will explain this situation and when to my OC about her circumstance. Obviously since OM is involved my conversations will have to start much sooner, but in my case OC may simply ask outright about how she has 2 daddys. In your OCs case, OM isn't part of her life, so I can see how it's a tough decision about when and how to bring it up.

I've written a letter to my OC about her conception (offering pertinent details while they are fresh in my mind) for her to read waaay in the future; I want her to know how deeply sorry I am for putting her in this position. Perhaps a letter to save for sometime in the future can express your heart in a way that allows OC privacy to digest everything. And until then, you and BH can keep it as simple as her young mind can handle.

I will pray for guidance on this for you. Is there ever a good time to tell someone you love something you wish you could forget?

I agree. I had a bio dad who was not in my life AT ALL and I cannot remember my first memory of getting that info. It just always 'was'.

The problem with the infidelity part of it is that you can't tell a child facts of her DNA and expect her to keep it secret. I think you have to accept the fact this is not something that should be expected to be kept secret.

I would never expect this. Everyone else in the family knows. My in-laws, my mom and grandma, all of our older kids. So keeping it a secret from others in the family won't be an issue.

Of course, I don't explain the situation to every person I meet, so it's possible we may have some awkward moment if OC says something to a friend or something.

My older kids did look for their bio dad once they were adults. Now that they've met him, they regret that decision. The relationship didn't last long. They figured out pretty quickly why I fought so hard to keep him out of their lives. They refuse to even speak to him anymore.

Writer1,

I don't have an OC nor am I dealing with this issue, but I really liked the advice to tell the child earlier rather than later. I also think that Pep's advice to have your H involved in this decision to be a very important thing to do.

Here is why I make the last statement. Having reared 3 children I can tell you that they pick up on the unspoken things far more rapidly than you can imagine. I think you know this from your older ones.

So what is your OC going to pick up when you tell the truth?

That really depends on the attitude of you and your H. If you act frightened, fearful, reticent they will think this is bad news. If your H seems less than enthusiastic they are likely to think that they did something wrong.

The message that your H CHOSE to be the Dad/Daddy/Father is a big message, but it should be accompanied by him being there to reinforce that message. The fact that you are happy to have this child and look forward to sharing life with the child should also come across as well.

Make sure that you set the tone for delivering this message. From the perspective of the child should this be bad news or good news? I think it is good news and should be delivered soon (maybe a year, maybe less depending on the opportunity) but it must be delivered by the two of you in a positive manner.

At least those are my thoughts. I am sure as the child ages more questions will come but remember this and make use of this. Not only do you and your H want this child so do the siblings. Message...the child is loved and wanted.

I just don't see how that message could be a hard one to deliver, right.

Does this make sense? I hope so.

God Bless,

JL

It makes a lot of sense JL. Thanks.

I agree that the attitude with which we approach the subject will be of paramount importance. And of course I would never do anything without my H's agreement.

I'm very confident that our daughter feels loved by everyone in the family. Even my in-laws have become more accepting with time. They were a little distant and hesitant at first.

Well ..... it's next to impossible to resist an adorable 2 year old girl.

Yes, it is, and I think she knows it (and takes advantage of it too).

As she should ......

PS
JL's post about attitude is spot on.

You're a writer, write her a story ....

Oh...Writer!...that is THE most perfect suggestion. Perfect.

Pep, I make a point to read your signature lines and THIS one almost made me fall off my chair laughing when I read it.

4eva

--a good point SW.

Writer, you don't have the above issue because you have accepted resonsibility for yourself. You have the strength of character to protect your child from any ill-effects of knowing the truth at WHATEVER age you feel comfortable havign that discussion with her (or sharing your "story").

To some people, THEIR OWN reputation is more important than their own child's wellfare. The some, the deceipt and dishonesty, and cowardice that allowed the adultery to flourish remains - shrouding the truth from those who most deserve to know the facts. Just another way that adultery is a gift that keeps on giving...until the cycle is stopped. Stopping it takes the rare type of courage you posess, Writer.

opt

I was thinking about the title of this thread.
I always think that the thread title says a lot.

"Telling OC the truth" ......
Well, of course the opposite would be telling OC lies.
That's not going to happen.

What I was thinking was, what we are really discussing is which FACTS a child needs in order to understand their particular reality.

It's not really an issue of "telling the truth", is it?
It's more an issue of revealing relevant facts considering age appropriateness and the needs of the child at that time.

So, Writer Dear, I suggest you change your inner dialogue away from "telling the truth" to "sharing relevant facts".

You never intended to lie to your daughter.
You always intended to be truthful with her.
But, really, your dilemma is not about truth. It's about discernment of when to give her certain facts.
And, I am certain that some of the facts of the situation are never going to be any of her business.

My kids both know I did "hippie stuff" in the 60's. But, that is as far as I go.
What I did (the details) is none of their business. They know the "truth" that I was young and wild at times. The "facts" about my exact foolishness are none off their business, unless I decide it would be useful to them to hear those facts. Instead, I tell them about the lessons I learned.

Writer, don't over think this too much.

Yes, Pep, this is absolutely what I was trying to get at.

It isn't so much about telling OC the truth, because I don't intend to lie to her. It's absolutely about finding the right time to explain the situation in terms that she can understand.

Writer1,

I really really really like the idea of you writing a story for HER. I could see it as a story that you and/or your H could read to her when she is a bit older. It should contain as Pep says the relavent facts she needs to know. It could even be presented as an animal story where the facts of her life are presented. Something she could identify with but also reflect the love you, your H, and the other children have for her.

Just thoughts, but given your abilities I think this would be a cool thing to do for her. Given her age you have some time to construct it in a way that pleases you, your H, and will touch her in a way allows learning with comfort.

Just thoughts.

JL

I have a very similar situation. My daughter is three going on four. My husband (BS) asked me to start talking with her about it. I have brought it up in conversations with her about her having two daddies. It is very difficult and hard for her to understand, but we don't want her to feel that we have lied to her and these small introductions help.

Another writer... ;-)

FullAttic: Thank you for sharing how your situation is going. Does your daughter know her bio dad at all? Does your BH participate in these discussions? Specifically what have you told your daughter at this age? My OC is about a year younger than yours, so I'm just trying to plan ahead as far as when and what to tell her.

Thanks.

No, my daughter does not know her bio dad. He has no contact and does not pay child support. My husband and I had the initial conversation with her. We essentially said that she had two Dads and that one lived far away. She didn't have any questions and she just laughed at us and said that she only had one daddy. So, we've tried to bring it more into conversation -- in the car, reading books, and so on. My friend who has two girls who she adopted from China recommend creating a scrapbook for her that is similar to the ones made by adopted kids. She said that I should put everything in there about her birth and the people who love her. I could then have a page for her bio father. I guess that her daughters actually drew pictures of what they thought their biological parents looked like so that they had a reference.

It is a very difficult situation and I really do dread the conversations to come. But, she has a loving father (BS) and family (with siblings), she has not had to travel back and forth between houses, and, although it has been difficult, God has taken care of the finances.

I really like the idea of making a scrapbook. I think I'm going to start putting one together for when my daughter is old enough to understand. Right now, her verbal skills are still developing. She's a bit speech delayed, so I don't think she'd understand anything right now.

I've just gotten so much different advice about this - everything from tell her as soon as she's old enough to understand to don't tell her until she's at least 18.

You're right, it is a difficult situation. I don't look forward to these conversations either.

My H doesn't really even want to talk about when to tell her. He doesn't want to lie to her either, but he really thinks of her as his daughter, so it doesn't feel like lying. And of course, she is his daughter legally and in pretty much every way other than the DNA, and it's hard to explain DNA to a very young child.

After the initial dust had cleared, my husband just wanted to move on and not talk about it again. But after he heard several stories of how rough it was for older children to find out that they were adopted, he started insisting that we talk about it with her. He does not want her to feel weird or mad at him. He is very close to her and says that he has earned the right to "someday walk her down the aisle at her wedding day." He doesn't want anything to happen to ruin their relationship. He feels that her anger should be directed at her bio Dad and not him.

I think one of the most important messages to send to these children are that they are not a mistake. Even if the circumstances of their conception were not traditional, or morally right, that God knew them before they were born and that God does not make mistakes. Parents do. My heart goes out to ALL children. They are the innocent ones.

My H and I discussed this last night. He feels that 3 or 4 is much too young for her to be able to understand. He's thinking more like waiting until she's 7 or 8 to talk to her, when she'll be more able to understand what it is that we're talking about.

It's hard to know the right age for this kind of thing. Dr. Harley does say to be honest about the situation from a young age, but it's difficult to know what that age is. 3 or 4 is young, but then again, so is 7 or 8.

I'm hoping we'll just know when the time is right when we get there. All I know is that she's too young right now. At this point, telling her she has two daddy's wouldn't do much good, since she doesn't really grasp the concept of numbers yet (and she still sometimes calls me "daddy" and her dad "mommy" lol).

I do agree with princessmeggy that the children are the innocent ones. One thing I know for sure is that both my H and I do everything we can to let our daughter know that we love her and cherish her every single day of her life. I'm hoping that making her feel loved and wanted and secure will make all of this easier for her to deal with when the time does come.

Writer1,

In my experience as an OC, I was told that I was adopted from a very young age I would estimate 2 years old. In any event it was always a part of my Consciousness.

As I grew older the WORD adopted took on more and more meaning, like any other word that we know it will change over time. When I found out later I was also an OC there wasn't that much of a transition for me.

Perhaps what you need to think about is what words you will use to describe OCs situation to her, but she does need to understand that her situation is different, and have the words to understand it some day.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, I think that's one of the problems inherent in this situation. There are no acceptable "words" for this situation.

Adoption is very common. Almost everyone knows someone who has been adopted. It's very socially acceptable. There are books to help explain it to small children.

There is nothing like that for the OC. OC is a term that we use here, but it isn't a term that is commonly known outside of this forum. And though I use it here simply for clarification, it isn't a word that I particularly like. Neither me or my husband consider our daughter to be an "other" child. For all intents and purposes, she is 100% OUR daughter, period. We don't distinguish between her and our older kids. So I certainly don't want to use that term, but I really can't think of an appropriate and accurate alternative either.

At 2, my daughter doesn't have enough of an understanding to even grasp something like adoption. She isn't very advanced as far as speaking goes. She understands concrete things that we say to her (Do you want to eat? Where is your ball? Can you point to your nose?), but that's about as far as her comprehension level goes. So right now, there just wouldn't be any way to explain this that she would understand.

I guess all kids develop at different rates, so there may not be one right age for explaining these things. All I know is that my daughter isn't anywhere close to being able to comprehend something like this.

Writer1,

You are quite correct about that, the words in general use are [censored], love child, illegitimate, etc, quite an ugly history of words on display.

You could say that OC was adopted by your H, or accepted, or taken in, I don't think that is a deception since in fact your H did adopt her.

Tell OC that H is her step-dad is honest as well, even if she does not know the full meaning of that word.

God Bless
Gamma

I don't feel as though adoption is an accurate word for our situation. There was no legal adoption process. There was no adoption process at all. We were married when our daughter was conceived and when she was born, so in the eyes of the law, she is my husband's daughter. His name was placed on the birth certificate before we left the hospital. I just don't think "adoption" fits.

I also don't see my H as her step-father, and neither does he. He is her only father, except for biologically. He is the only father she will ever know. Traditionally, step-father is a word used for someone who becomes a father by a marriage that occurs after the child is born. That doesn't describe our situation accurately either.

You have no idea how many times I've gone around this in my head. It's like running in circles. Maybe it's hard to explain it in a way that makes sense simply because it isn't a sensible situation.

Writer, pls don't tell your daughter that H is her stepdad. HE IS HER FATHER. Period.

I'd never tell her that. And he'd never let me. And she'd never believe it.

She's crazy about him. Definitely a daddy's girl. She has him wrapped around her tiny little pinky so tight I'm surprised he can breathe. This kid just can't do any wrong according to him (but then he doesn't have to spend all day at home with her either).

[quote=writer1I don't feel as though adoption is an accurate word for our situation. There was no legal adoption process. There was no adoption process at all. We were married when our daughter was conceived and when she was born, so in the eyes of the law, she is my husband's daughter. His name was placed on the birth certificate before we left the hospital. I just don't think "adoption" fits.

I also don't see my H as her step-father, and neither does he. He is her only father, except for biologically. He is the only father she will ever know. Traditionally, step-father is a word used for someone who becomes a father by a marriage that occurs after the child is born. That doesn't describe our situation accurately either.

You have no idea how many times I've gone around this in my head. It's like running in circles. Maybe it's hard to explain it in a way that makes sense simply because it isn't a sensible situation. [/quote]

First you use legality as an excuse, the state sees my BH as the dad.

Then you use the law again as an excuse, there was not an adoption process so my BH can't be a step dad.

What is legal quite often not the truth or what is right but just a way that disputes are resolved.

Your OC needs the truth.

Edit to add you don't have to use the term stepdad for BH. BioDad is all that is needed for OM.
As the OC grows she will understand that BH is not her BD/biodad and all that it means. That even though there was no adoption she will know the BH is her stepdad. The man that raised her. Stepdad is what label that will best fit him, for she will know there is no shared DNA.

Technically BH will be her stepdad, a thought that may put into her mind from time to time.

Reality BH will be thought of as just her dad pretty much all the time, and never called anything else.

Writer1,

Perhaps in another language there would be better words, or better euphemisms.

HE IS HER FATHER. Period. And Tibet is part of China too.

There is a core of dishonesty in that statement, in that one would have to be in a state of denial or of suppressed memory or such, to accept it completely.

There was a great burden of guilt my adoptive Mother and Father carried for not telling me the truth. I found this out when they were in their 80s, when after I tracked down the details of my family they were relieved that they no longer were holding a secret from me.

I can't say the our relationship would have been better or worse, but I do think had they told the complete truth early on they would not have been triggered to guilt by me.

God Bless
Gamma

I'm not talking about withholding the truth from her for decades. I'm talking about finding a time when she's old enough to actually understand these things and explaining them to her in a way she is capable of comprehending.

I don't think many 3-year-olds understand the concept of biology. It would be very difficult to explain it to her at that age because of that. So I agree with my H that she may be more able to comprehend that kind of thing around 7 or 8.

And I disagree about my H being her step-father. Step-fathers generally have no legal rights to a child (unless they legally adopt them, in which case they stop being a step-father). Step-fathers are not listed on the birth certificate. They generally don't share the same last name as their step-children. I know all of this because my H is the step-father to my 3 old kids. It really isn't the same situation, though they all think of him as their "dad" too since he raised them and don't have a relationship with their bio-dad.

Do your older kids know the truth about OC?

I would wait until she is a little older too...7 or 8 is about right probably. So don't fret about it for now. She is only 2.

Yes, all of my older kids know, as do all grandparents and their aunt. We don't have much close family beyond that.

Gamma LEGALLY writer's H is the father. In every sense of the word he is her DADDY.

Amen
Amen
Amen
Amen

AMEN!!!!! I think we need to redefine the word "father" and "daddy". These titles do NOT necessarily coincide with sharing DNA. I mean, seriously, DNA is WAY overrated.

Well, I know my older kids are very happy that they weren't raised by the father they share DNA with.

i agree that now is not the time to worry about telling her. as she gets older she will talk with her friends at school and come home and ask questions. maybe not specific to her but maybe like "mom how come molly has 2 fathers?"

it will be the perfect time to start introducing age appropriate information to her

your h will always be her daddy.

here's what our little one wrote in the father's day card she gave me.

"you are the best dad in the world. i wish you could take me to school every day. i like it when you be funny, be nice and wierd. and i wish i could be with you instead of papi! i love you so much until forever."

i am sure your little angel will feel the same about your h.

and i "know" how he feels about her

gamma

what a shame your mother and father carried that quilt all those years.

i wonder if unlike today, that society's thought process at that time to keep all adoption information secret played a part in them keeping it all pent up for so long.

I think the younger the child, the better. Which of course is exactly what we have not done.

Hey Autumn, how are things going?

How old is your OC now?

DNA is the least important part of parenting. You will know when the time is write due to all the other family members knowledge, don't rush it.

An as the BS of the biological DNA donor, I am NOT a step-mother. Being a step-parent involves knowing the existence of the child in the partner's life before you choose to marry them, not after.

excusie moi my good woman Fled.

sometimes one chooses to be the step parent (daddy) after marriage

In our case at least, my H isn't legally considered a "step-parent." His name is on the birth certificate, so according to the law, he has complete parental rights, which he never had with my 3 older kids (who he was a step-parent to). OM has no rights at all. There was never even a DNA test.

In your case, I'm not sure who is listed as the father on the BC or what parental rights you have or what rights the OM has.

The term step-parent may apply more in situations where the OM is involved in the OC's life, but I don't think it applies when the BH is the only father that OC knows.

writer here's how i see it.

in situations like yours and mine your husband (whether he is on the bc or not) is your dd's daddy. just like i am grace's daddy. period

i am not on the bc and neither is om

as far as the term step parent goes. i am technically grace's stepfather b/c i am not her biofather and i am married to her mother.

So, out of curiosity, I did a little searching and found this site:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/step-parent/

Which gives the following definition of the word step parent:

"A step parent refers to a person who has married one�s parent after the death or divorce of the other parent. A spouse of the parent becomes a step parent to the child when the child is not biologically related to the person."

While my H meets the 2nd criteria for being a step parent (he isn't biologically related to our OC of course) he clearly does not meet the first, since he did not marry me after a death or divorce from the other parent. I was in fact married to my H when our OC was conceived and when she was born.

To me, it's much more similar to a child who is born through the use of a sperm donor in a case where the H might be sterile. He isn't biologically related to the child, but in every other sense of the word, he is the child's father. He has legal rights to the child that a step parent would not have. My H has all legal rights to our OC. He did not have those rights with my 3 older kids. That's why I think the situation with an OC is very different from a step parent situation.

"A step parent refers to a person who has married one�s parent after the death or divorce of the other parent. A spouse of the parent becomes a step parent to the child when the child is not biologically related to the person."


A definition when back in the day when true parentage was never discussed openly with the OC, and DNA was not available.


"While my H meets the 2nd criteria for being a step parent (he isn't biologically related to our OC of course) he clearly does not meet the first, since he did not marry me after a death or divorce from the other parent. I was in fact married to my H when our OC was conceived and when she was born."


Legally your BH is the "dad" and not the step dad. And, always will be unless the OM challenges this in court.

Reality your BH is not the "dad" That title will always be the OM's whether there will be NC for now or forever.

What you have and are using definitions that were developed when parentage could never be proven. Definintions back then that willingly and only cited examples of legitimacy of birth. Definitions from a time that society would not recognize OC birth or openly discuss OC parentage. A time when the courts could not settle this issue.

I see you only trying to justify your BH's role as the OC's dad as one would see a WS trying to justify an affair.

The cork was pulled from the bottle
The contents spilled on the ground
and they can never be put back in the bottle

The OM will always be her father.
The OM fathered her.
The OM traits, good and bad will always be part of who see is.
Even if the OM never parents the OC or never sees OC.

Legally your BH only has his name on the BC.
Which if the OM pursued there is a good chance it can be changed.
His DNA will never replace the OM's DNA.

Your BH can do his best to be the best parent he can for the OC, and he will, and the OC will love him for that. They will bond the BH and OC. Be happy and content in that.


"To me, it's much more similar to a child who is born through the use of a sperm donor in a case where the H might be sterile. He isn't biologically related to the child, but in every other sense of the word, he is the child's father. He has legal rights to the child that a step parent would not have. My H has all legal rights to our OC. He did not have those rights with my 3 older kids. That's why I think the situation with an OC is very different from a step parent situation."

Siting sperm donation is comparing apples to oranges. There was no intent on your part to use the OM as a sperm donor.

NOPE, not here in California. LEGALLY her H is the father, dad, daddy whatever you call it LEGALLY he is the guy because in CA only the H can challenge DNA not the interloper. Once OC turns 2 he will be the dad for LIFE because the time will have run out for her H to challenge paternity. He will then forever be the daddy LEGALLY. OM is nothing more than a sperm donor in writer's case.

ooops OC is two already, so writer's H is officially and legally forever her dad.

I think fled had a really interesting point here. I don't tell people I am a stepmom unless they already know my situation. Why? Because then I have to go into the awkward and long explanation of my H having a child outside of our marriage during our long marriage. I didn't sign on to be a step parent, he did when he married me because I had a son already. I think I prefer what OW calls me "OC's other mommy". Yes, she has gained enough respect for my role in her son's life to give me the honorary title.

Writer 1:
I have mixed feelings about this. In some respects I think your H is her father although he is not connected to her biologically but he is her father and is caring for her everyday. I am not sure I would want to tell my child while they are young. I am not sure what time is the right time but 7-8 seems a bit young to me. In addition, how does your H feel about the situation. Some parents never tell? My God Mother found out 2 years ago that her dad is not her biological dad and she is 63. Nothing has changed in her life and the only reason it came out was because she had a medical condition. She has no interest in seeking out her BIO_DAD or any family. Her dad is the one that raised her whom she has known all of her life.

Should you tell your child and she acts different toward your H that may hurt his feelings? How would he feel having her seek out her BIO DAD??

Tough call. My H and I discuss that as well. When do we tell my COM. I am not sure if we will tell him while is young but only time will tell. We may change our mind but in my COM's case it does not really change his life at all.

Oooops, OC can be 22 she will always have the OM DNA. Signatures on paper will never change that.

You fail to see the difference between legal verses the truth. Legal will not make or stop the OC from loving BH as her dad. And she will is my guess.

There is no reason for W1 or her BH to make sure everyone outside of their family knows the truth. No need to mention OM, DNA.

You said OM could contest and be on BC, I said NO HE CANNOT not in this state. You fail to see my point, TR. LEGALLY the child is writer and her BH's. Of course OM's DNA is there. Of course they should tell OC the truth eventually.

There are so many things wrong with this statement that I don't even know where to start.

The thing is, it isn't ME trying to justify anything. I am simply relating here what my H has said to me. In fact, we discussed this just last night. He says that he sees himself as her dad in every way other than the DNA. He does NOT see himself as her step-father. I am not trying to justify anything. I am simply attempting (obviously not successfully) to relate what our day to day reality is.

I just find this statement so utterly offensive.

This is true. I've researched the law. Here in CA, my BH had two years to contest paternity. That never concerned me at all. I don't think it ever once crossed his mind to do so. He has loved this little girl from the moment she was born and he had no desire to change his legal status as her father.

OM would have had few options in my state if he'd chosen to contest paternity, which he didn't.

Few people would dare tell an adopted child that their parents weren't their real "mommy" and "daddy" because they don't share DNA. I know plenty of people who were raised by someone other than their bio parents, and they all consider the parents who raised them to be their true family in every sense of the word (in spite of the lack of shared DNA).

At this point, I'm done defending my H's role in our child's life. He has earned the right to be her dad in every way. And that wasn't the point of this thread in the first place. I started this thread to get guidance in regards to when and how to explain the situation to our OC, not to try and figure out if my H is really her father. I already knew the answer to that one. I've known it all along.

Writer1: I understand your points. I am not sure what I would do if I found myself in your situation but because it worked out where you have an H that has been her dad and was there from birth, I would feel comfortable telling her when she is in high school or an adult. At that point he/she is able to understand relationships a little better. Let your child enjoy her childhood. I'm just concerned that by telling her when he/she is 7-8 it may cause difficulty in her teenage years w/ acceptance.

In addition, should the child want to seek the other party out it may catch him off guard and he may not want to meet the child. You have to be prepared for that as well. That happens so often with adopted children when they learn of their true bio make up.

There is no right or wrong answer to any of the questions. You will know when the time is appropriate to share that information should you chose to share.

Hang in there!

Thanks Bethesda.

It really is a difficult call as to when to broach the subject. I know Dr. Harley has stated that it's better to tell them the truth at a very young age, but there are issues with both choices of course.

As far as OC wanting to meet OM, I'm going to leave that up to her once she's an adult. I have no idea if she will want to meet him. I have adopted friends who chose to search for their bio parents and adopted friends who have no desire to meet their bio families, so it could go either way. That really will be up to her to decide after she turns 18.

I think you are getting caught up in titles.

by that definition a single woman has a child and the father is no where to be found. she meets a great guy and they marry 1 year later.

He is not the step parent because there was no divorce or death involved?

sure he is technically the step dad. he is the guy holding, nurtuing, caring for and providing for the child

but more importantly in my off beat world he is the "daddy" to the child. no other adjectives are needed

i am not sure what is involved in legal rights. for us when oc is sick at school they call my w or me to pick her up. not om

if she is sick my w or i take her to the doctor. not om

i am sure that when she is older if she gets into trouble they will call me at 2 am and not om.

hey maybe i should keep his phone number handy for those nights so i can give it to the caller and go back to bed. just kidding.

so i guess my questions is what is the difference between your h's role with your little dd and your 3 olders?

In most ways, no difference, since our situation was similar to your example. Bio father of my 3 older kids wasn't in the picture. My H was the only "dad" they knew. They all consider him their dad.

Legally, there were some differences. They didn't have my H's last name (OC does). I had to list him as a step-parent on school and medical forms (with OC, we just list him as her dad since he's on the BC). My H could still pick my older kids up from school and take them to the doctor and everything. When our son had his legal problems last year, the judge had to specifically put my H (as the step-father) on the list of approved visitors, but my H wasn't allowed to sign any of the paper work for the courts. That had to be me, since I was the "legal" parent and my H was not.

""""""""""They all consider him their dad""""""""""

and that is the most important thing

just as it will be for your dd

well at least the judge did the right thing

can i ask why your h didn't adopt you olders when they were younger?

He wanted to, but we never had the money. Because their bio dad was MIA, it would have been more expensive because we would have had to placed ads in newspapers trying to locate him and then gone through the process of trying to prove abandonment, as well as the normal adoption fees. We've always gotten by financially (up until this last year at least) but we've never had much extra. It's always been sort of paycheck to paycheck for us. Most of the attorneys we spoke with wanted at least $5000 just to get the ball rolling. And to us, he was always their dad anyway and since their bio dad was nowhere to be found, not much would have changed in our day to day lives if he'd adopted them.

Looking back on it now though, I wished we'd saved up the money and done the adoption.

interesting and i certainly understand the paycheck to paycheck life style.

well at least the most important part was a reality. him being their dad

Pops,

what a shame your mother and father carried that quilt all those years.

i wonder if unlike today, that society's thought process at that time to keep all adoption information secret played a part in them keeping it all pent up for so long.

I think it certainly did, as did the attitude of respect, gravity and compliance for everything legal at that time. When he spoke of the proceedings he mentioned details like the judges name, sidebars my biological father had with the judge, the inheritance implications of adoption, the only thing missing was dramatic court room music from Perry Mason.

Funny part is that although my adoptive father was the one who told my adoptive mother to keep quiet about my background and details, he was the one who first told me a small bit about my origins. I think he regretted doing so later as I turned into a bit of a Chillingworth. For myself more data is better data.

God Bless
Gamma

Hi writer!

Ok. and 8.

Thanks for asking.

I wish you well with your decision making.

It's not easy.... I know.

hugs....

Writer1 and others,

It seems to me that there used to be a term that more adequately described some of the situation here. It was said that a man "fathered" a child. Meaning he provided the sperm for insemination.

That is far different than a man being a "dad" for a child.

On a legal basis, many states have the two year limitation and some even shorter. After that the "legal" aspects of this become clear. Your H is the legal father/dad/ etc. This has nothing to do with biology.

It seems to me that while he has not "fathered" any of your children, he has been all of their "dad's". He sounds like a very good man to me.

God Bless,

JL

I am not sure why I read the thread. I rarely peek at this part of the forum but wanted to add my, so far no OC and hopefully never one, perspective. (That is a complicated sentence!)

Ideally you do tell OC from the start that she has a Dad and a bio-dad.

That can later be explained in more and more age appropriate detail as life goes on.

She isn't too young at any point to know her truth. (I am a early childhood development person by profession)

You wouldn't need to make a big deal out of it until she is cognitively wanting to get into it in detail.

Yes, she would tell friends but there are so many variations of families these days, it wouldn't be so strange. It is sad that it is embarassing and might make Dad feel sad but it is the facts of OC's life.

I may be missing a logical connection.

Clear statement, not missing anything

Writer1,
Let me preface this by saying that if anyone is interested in the details of my situation they can review my thread here called �Another OC Story.�

After this thread got off the ground (it was probably 3-4 pages long at the time) I emailed it to my Wexw (a non-MBer). It had become my feeling after starting to read some threads here for a couple months to that point, that my wexw should have the first opportunity to share the truth with our D9. However, I had also made it clear to wexw that I would never lie to D9 and that if she asked, I would tell the truth.

This thread apparently persuaded my wife to give D9 the full story. She did so with great heaviness in her heart, much trepidation and anxiety. Previously (when she was actively wayward and during the beginning of the D), she had stated that she didn�t think D9 ever needed to know her genetic origins.

I should say that D9 is an exceptionally emotionally intelligent little girl. She has always been the picture of self confidence and seems to have natural boundaries. She�s thoughtful and contemplative, but always manages to see the bright side of things.

I was not there for the conversation (another unfortunate privilege of divorce), but wexw shared some of what she said and how she said it, and I have little reason to believe she portrayed the situation inaccurately. I believe she gave the facts truthfully and sensitively, focusing on how wanted D9 was and what a struggle the pregnancy was (possible genetic issues and all).

Per the report, D9 was immediately quite accepting. The next day D9 was with me and she brought it up spontaneously. I asked how she felt and she said �I feel really special.� She also said something to the affect of �I know you�re my Daddy.�
One of her observations was: �was that why Daddy was so upset when you had a relationship with (OM#1)?�

It�s been a couple of months or so and I must say I had always wondered what it would be like when that tacit untruth was gone (I had predicted the truth would come out by next year). I has been refreshing. I thought it would be like a lifted weight, but it�s not. It�s more like a thin glass barrier has been removed. IOW, I�ve always been her Dad, it�s just that I knew something that she didn�t. That fact had an impact on my innermost feelings as a father; it just made me a little sad that I had important information she didn�t. Now that�s not there anymore, and I would say our relationship is definitely more genuine and real.

It�s only come up a couple times since. Right after, she shared the information with a classmate (!). This was something wexw was particularly concerned about (not just for her own reputation, but for D9�s perception in this small community). She also shared it with a 20 year old counselor at her after school program. There have been no apparent ramifications of these. She told her brother (14). He has not brought it up. I have since told her that if she chooses to share the information with anyone else (and that is her exclusive right), that she should be fair to her mother and let her know, as it could possibly affect her.

I know there are differing views represented in this thread. To me it really is an individual matter and must take into account ALL of the circumstances. The divorce, and wexw�s EA(s), had a great impact on our situation, for sure. The older sibling has always been a concern. The fact that spermdonor is legally out of the picture affects things. However, I believe overall, for us, 9 was a good age. I think she was ready. I was looking for an impetus to persuade wexw, and this thread served the purpose better than anything � it was like a miracle.

So, I�m not trying to thread-jack but I truly think this post belongs here. This thread is another example of the power of these forums. Even if you think you�re just throwing out a simple idea, you can impact another family in a positive way, possibly for generations to come. I thank you all for your input here, and I hope this helps you, Writer!

Optimism

Thank you for sharing.

Opt, that is so beautiful! I wanted to let you know that writer1 is taking a short break from MB but asked me to tell you thank you for sharing your story.

Opt.

�was that why Daddy was so upset when you had a relationship with (OM#1)?�

Don�t ever underestimate what children intuit but never mention. The truth of our relationships is often felt more than it is spoken,

As an OC I�m so glad you removed this 900 pound gorilla from the room. The shrapnel from an affair takes many shapes and affects everyone nearby. I hope that by your ex-W coming clean with OC she will avoid her damaging behaviors in the future and as a result provide a better life for OC.

God Bless
Gamma