Curious Re: Status - Marriage Builders® Forums

Marriage Builders

(1) I was wondering how many women here are "Stay At Home Moms". There seems to be a myth surrounding BW's as wallowing in the luxury of not having to work outside the home. And, if you are at home, do you work from the home at a part time job or more?
Just wanted to get a handle on how many women here actually financially contribute to the household in addition to taking care of the home and kids and running endless errands/extra curricular, cub scout/brownie involvement, school plays, not to mention all the detail work that is dropped onto our shoulders.

I have been going over my resume to hit the job market when I am finished with school in February and was surprised how little time was spent as a SAHM throughout the course of my marriage(s). Although I did Stay At Home once for a period of 2 years, the rest of the time I either worked part-time, full-time at a job and a half or ran my own businesses (which was like working two or three jobs) for the past 30 years.

During that two years, I worked to acclimate my husband's two children from his previous marriage into our family and kept my focus on them.

(2) One other issue that I would like to present (that is off this topic) is the myth that only OC's live their lives suffering without involvement (other than financial) from bio-parent. At least they get court-ordered, mandatory CS. A fairly recent phenomenon over the past decade. We never got anything for our kids.

My son's bio-dad and my two step-children's bio-mom completely abandoned these three kids. They never received one penny CS from either of them. There is a lot of declarations on both boards about how they (OW) "hurt" for their child when they think that not even the grandparents have contact with their OC. Yet, my child and my husband's children were all ignored by their absent parent's bio-grandparents as well. The OW will state "well, that's the grandparents' loss" but the truth is, the grandparents probably don't even think about it or care all that much. Perhaps it is their loss, if they even ever think of it, but chances are it rarely crosses their minds.

OW's seems to think that the bio-grandparents will suddenly wake up one morning and say 'My God, what have we done?" and lament their "loss" when in reality these people couldn't care less...they, the bio-grandparents, who produce the children (the bio-parents) that walked out on their children of the marriage, bonded and raised these children from the marriage (for a time) were still able to easily walk out of the abandoned childrens' life and never looked back. If the parents are like this then it does not surprise me that the grandparents are likewise. Might as well bury the fantasy that these bio-grandparents stare out of their windows over their coffee wondering about their grandchidlren that they never see. They might have a rack of grandchildren and what's one or two more?

I know this is a painful situation for my kids and that they have all been damaged by this blatant abandonment and I often wish our situation were more like an OC situation where the bio-parents never had contact from the beginning because then my kids wouldn't have suffered as much as they did. The "good" news in all this is that they are all incredible and amazing and successful adults (despite their scars) and compassionate and wonderful people...and excellent parents themselves. They know intellectually they were all better off without bio-parent/grandparents even thought the rejection is painful. But, it really isn't rejection as much as their inability to value and treasure family as much as we do.

It's just something they and we all just have to live with. As sad and tragic as it is. None of us want this heartache for our children. I would rather die than have my kids feel this kind of pain. If I could go back in time and change anything, it would have been to extract my children from the bio-parents' lives in the very beginning and tell them how much their parents loved them more than anything but they were abducted by aliens, killed in combat, run over by a bread truck, or something. It's one thing to have them gone from the beginning and never know them or bond with them; it is another to have contact, live with them and have a relationship and have some bonding and then have it snatched away. That's the worst.

In my case and my husband's case, I suppose we chose the wrong people to marry and have children with in the first place...and that is our sin and these are the consequences....and the pain is dumped on our kids. Sure, we feel bad, too, but it is because they are hurt...we ourselves or how we feel do not matter in this in the least...our choices led to their pain.

Fortunately, we were very involved with our kids while they were in our care and they seem to have gotten past a lot of their issues even if it still hurts on occasion and always will hurt. Most of the time they don't even think about it and I am sure that there are residual triggers for them that send them into a moment of despondency, however, they know none of this is their fault and that there is just something lacking in their bio-parents and grandparents and is no reflection on them as worthwhile, wonderful people. This was our mantra anyway. It worked. Pretty much.

So, BW's, BC's, OW's and OC's alike all have things like this happen to them whether they are abandoned victims of divorce or perpetrators in a betrayal. These are the consequences.

Catnip =^^=

I am employed as a teacher (so you all know how much money I make LOL!). I make twice as much money as H and contribute twice as much to the running of our home. We have a 5 year old ds together.

I also have a DD who is 23 and never knew her father. (We were both young and single!!!!). I raised her on my own. She received not one penny of cs. I figured if he didn't want to be a part of her life...so be it. I also realized from the moment he left that she was my responsibility. I did have help from my parents the first couple of years of her life. When DD was 3 I went back to work full time and haven't stopped!! She has grown up to have a wonderful work ethic and doesn't need anyone to support her or take care of her. Sure she missed out on having a father but in return she had a mother who did everything in her power to make a life for her to help her grow into a mature adult.

take care,
Why

Yes catnip everything we (parents) do has consequences on everyone around us--whether good or bad. Unfortunately, in selfish moments, some of us don't take time to consider them even tho we should (regarding affairs).

I think the most popular saying on this board is "hindsight is 20/20." So true!

All we or anybody can do is our best to move forward and make right choices by our kids. They are resilient and they will overcome our choices.

Then, when they start making their own choices, good or bad, they will realize that their parents were doing their best with the knowledge that they had at that given time.

What can we do?

We want to protect our kids from any pain whatsoever but we cannot.

To answer your first question, I'm an at-home mom who telecommutes full-time. I just started this a year ago. I believe I do make a hefty contribution to the family finances as well as the endless chores that go with working around the house, caring for children, keeping cupboards stocked and clothes clean, etc.

Good luck with your job prospects!

Catnip, I was a stay at home mom until my last child entered 4year0ld pre-school. I started substitute teaching that spring. My older dau was home, her Sr year, and she picked him up for me.
I still sub, am going to start teaching once my youngest, now 10 has adapted his new school and his ADD.
don't think I ever wallowed in luxury with 5 kids, even as spaced out as they were. Also, my H was career Army officer, I did the full Officer's Wife routine. That is a job in and of itself and you don't make any money.

TG

During my whole now-defunct marriage, I was the primary breadwinner, often working at least two to three jobs at a time, and always had a higher income than my ex. One of the reasons he became abusive in the end was because, working about 80 hours per week and never seeing the light of day, I was unable to have his supper on the table like he expected. Rather than get another part time job himself to make ends meet because of the exorbitant child support obligation he owed for oc, he preferred to work less than 40 hours per week and berate and belittle me for my lack of "effort".

Even way back when I was completing my undergrad degree, I went to school full-time and held down two part-time jobs. Sometimes my ex-h worked, sometimes he did not.

The only time that I was a SAHM was during one 10 month period in which I was laid off when the classroom I taught in was closed. I was able to collect unemployment, and actually still put in about 10 hours per week teaching night adult classes, so even then I was not completely off work. Out of all of it, the mothering part was the most difficult, with three young boys and a newborn baby.

I think even now my ex would take me back, nearly a year after our divorce, but only because he has realized that the gravy train of being my husband had distinct financial benefits. Honestly, I truly believe that is the only reason he "chose" me over ow - I was a better "provider", and he had a better lifestyle with me than he would / does on his own. How sad is that?

Right now I attend law school full time, and also put in many additional hours researching and writing briefs for my boyfriend's law office, and care for my four children. The work ethic is something that is deeply ingrained in me, I suppose, but sometimes it feels like there will never be any rest for the weary!

I suppose the short answer is that I never wallowed in any kind of luxury as a BW. If that is the going myth, I certainly was never part of it.

As for the grandparent thing, my four children from my marriage have no contact with their father's parents. They are simply not interested in being part of their lives. I have offered to provide transportation for them if they wanted to see the boys, but sadly, they do not consider them to be the "true" grandchildren. This is not a result of our divorce - they have always been that way. One time, we were visiting them as a family at Christmas, and I complimented a multi-colored knitted afghan my mother-in-law had on her couch. She proudly explained to me that after making baby blankets for ALL of her grandchildren, she took the leftover yarn and made this afghan so that when she used it, she could think of each and every grandchild she had by simply tracing the colors on the blanket. This would have been a truly touching story, had she ever knitted a single baby blanket for any one of my children with her son! Apparantly, "ALL of her grandchildren" did not include our sons. Fortunately, my parents are very involved in my childrens' lives, so they have grandparents that they know and love, and that love them tremendously.

Catnip, I think you summed it up the best. My biggest sin in life was marrying the wrong person. My children will carry the weight of my sin always, and suffer the repercussions of it. I just hope that I can make it up to them. Everything that I seek to accomplish through completing law school and starting a new life is premised on the idea that it will give us all a better life. Sometimes I get depressed and lose sight of that end...thanks for reminding me what I am working towards!

with love,
cd

I have always worked a full time job. If things don't work out we would both be okay financially. I would only want what is fair and no more.

I've worked since prior to our marriage and I've yet to have time off other then medical reasons. My wh makes at 50% more than I yet my pay covers at least 80% the of the bills.

I've worked since prior to our marriage and I've yet to have time off other then medical reasons. My wh makes at least 50% more than I yet my pay covers at least 80% the of the bills.

Thank you so much for your responses. As I suspected, most wives work and unfortunately few have the advantage of being a SAHM. I suppose I should post a poll to get a more accurate picture.

Worked FT 1st 5 yrs. of M.

S@HM the next 6 1/2 yrs.

Worked PT the next 8 yrs.

Now I'm back to being a S@HM.

PT job never necessary, but helpful.

Hey catnip:

My wife and I were laid off before the birth of our daughter. She decided to become a SAHM. I think that the combination of the loss of her job, the isolation (no adults to talk with and to give positive feedback), and the lack of rewards (SAHM is a difficult job with little recognition) helped to contribute to her state of mind that made her vulnerable to an affair.

FWIW...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />All we or anybody can do is our best to move forward and make right choices by our kids. They are resilient and they will overcome our choices.<hr /></blockquote>I almost never post to this board, and I'm sorry to butt in here, but I have to disagree with this statement. It's been shown pretty conclusively that children live with the pain of the decisions adults around them make for the rest of their lives. Whether it's divorce (see _The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce_ by Judith Wallerstein) or all the other traumas of all the other possible traumas of childhood, children don't just forget about the things that happen to them. They're imprinted on them with a strength and vividness that we, as adults, tend to overlook or forget.

I'm particularly sensitive to this today; yesterday my WP said she "just wants to live her life" and have the OM and our DD interact however they happen to interact. Luckily, it was in the presence of our Parenting Coordinator, who made it very clear that exposing a child to an apparently significant relationship that's not solid is not healthy for our DD, and that she (WP) will grow and evolve in her protection of our DD as time goes on. I wanted to leap in and say, "GOLL DANG IT, I've been asking for that very protection for 12 solid months!"

So... it's a bit of a sensitive subject for me right now.

Well you know what? If we get messed up as kids, yes, it's our messed up parents' fault. If we stay that way, then it's our own fault.

It's never too late to make a change for the better.

No parent wakes up the morning (in their right mind) and figures out how they can screw up their kids, but unfortunately it happens.

Even if a kid gets the best life, they will probably find something to complain about regarding their parents. We do our best with what we've got.

That's all I'm saying.

Just J,
Does "WP" mean "wayward partner?" Meaning you are not married?

I don't know your story, this is just an observation but having your daughter without marrying her mother, in itself, has made your daughter vulnerable to pain. Am I right?

Before I say anymore I need clarification on what a WP is...

[ December 23, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]

BTDT, my story is, perhaps, one of the more unusual ones on these boards. The short answer is that yes, WP means Wayward Partner. And no, we were not legally married because both of us are female. Did we open our daughter to extra pain because we decided to bring her into the world in a same-sex couple? Yes, we did; the pain of being raised in a minority household that many people in the United States believe is immoral. That was a risk I was willing to take, given the things that can be done to mitigate it at this time. (By mitigate, I'm talking about legal, financial, emotional, and societal protections that can be put in place to, in most regards, bring a child of a same-sex relationship into nearly as protected a status as one brought into the workd in a heterosexual marriage.)

What I had no desire to do was to be a single parent and raise my daughter by myself. Sadly, that's what I'm doing these days. It's a highly non-optimal situation that I can consciously mitigate as much as humanly possible.

What I don't like is watching someone refuse to acknowledge that their day-to-day choices have an effect on their children.

So... flame away; I suspect I'm going to get thoroughly attacked for all this, but that's all right. I brought it on myself for posting here.

Catnip -
Just wanted to add more info to your post -
During the 1st 2 yrs of our marriage - H was the primary breadwinner. After I finished college & graduated, I became the primary breadwinner. This was a bit of friction between us as H couldn't find work he liked after a round of layoffs. Since then, my H hasn't completed his college degree and has been in various stages of unemployment. Like CD - I also feel like my H "chose" me because I am the gravy train so to speak.

On the 2nd part - I never really knew my bio-father. He & my mom were teen parents & he joined the military & she chose not to follow him so that she could finish nursing school. I do know that side of my family, but I guess I have never felt at a loss of not knowing my bio-father. My mom did a wonderful job of raising 3 girls and she did eventually marry (my sisters' father) got divorced (conflicting interests) and remarried. I did have a father role model in my grandfather. This is a source of strain for my H and I right now. Because I can "care" better for our DD, he is not as worried about her as the OC, as her mom is smoking pot and what not. Really pisses me off because I think that the ex-ow needs to be held accountable for being a Mom. I'm not going to get into that right now! lol But I did want to chip in on the thread.

catnip,

excellent question. As I sit here on Christmas eve on the first one without my kids, as they are with my separated H, I can say honestly, I have worked full time almost the entire time of my marriage and most of time since I had our children. I put H through a master's program, he worked while I got my master's degree. Together, our income built up some savings which I now control to protect it.

My H now pays two child supports, to OC and to my kids, and though he probably makes about 30 percent more than me, he is now incredibly financially strained and barely making it where we live.

I thank myself every day for working all these years- I never thought I would be facing divorce with small children, but here I sit, old and an old separated mom.

Thank goodness for my income. From my full time job.

Catnip,,,,,, when my oldest son was born in 1974 his mother had me in court right away for cs. which i paid until he turned 18 in 1992. i have no regrets on that issue.

fh was a stay at mom with all of our kids from 1980 until our youngest was in 1st grade in 1999. that is when she started back to work after nearly 20 years of being at home. she fell quickly into her A in early 2000.

while at home she did work as a child care provider. which was quite a job considering she always had some of our young ones in the house also. so she did contribute financially what she could. but by no means did she wallow in luxury.

i feel that one of the biggest reasons for her a was very similar to K's w. she had been isolated from the adult world and was suddenly back into an environment where there was a lot of one on one male/female time being spent together.

one thing that came out after d-day was that during her tenure at home she had made a couple connections with other men on the internet. she said it started because she felt lonely and bored at home by herself. she also said that she ended them because one guy suggested that they meet.

i agree with you i think that i don't believe that oc suffer because a bio dad is not in the picture. but then again i believe that it depends on the mom or parental influence whether she moves on with her life or presents it to the oc as a huge injustice. btdt said it best in another thread (this is not verbatum) but kids are just little sponges soaking up all that is around them. be it anger, bitterness, love, compassion or you name it.

I have worked full time my entire life, or at least since I was sixteen . I had a brief time off due to a difficult pregnancy, but since the doc wouldn't let me out of bed, I doubt that counts.
I am still working full time even though I am on chemo for breast cancer and sick about 40% of the time. H is in school so I haven't much choice. He needed to complete his degree so his earning potential will eventually match mine. Most of what we have was mine previous to our marriage. You know, the house etc. Even the kids! And I have never received child support for my boys since the sperm donor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ex left the country for Europe after our divorce.

[ December 25, 2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: cherise ]

I guess I am the minority here. I was the entire marriage a SAHM. It was a joint decision, one that I will never regret.

As for contributions to the marriage, fortunately I was lucky enough to have parents that were finacially well off, and through out the last half of our marriage, (28yr) gifted to us their allotted amount yearly, plus they gifted us the house that we live in, free and clear. So in a sense I did contribute to the marriage thru my parents. We never once had to make a house payment, and basically through the gifts from my parents to both of us, it was like the salary of a full time job.

But then that all came back at me because of all of our good fortune, he felt so sorry for the OW because she was single, working full time and raising his 2 OC and another one of her own. He was paying support. But he began to resent the fact that I didnt work outside the home, and he was the breadwinner. None of that bitterness came out until the divorce process.

Tina

We have been married over 11 yrs and I have been a SAHM for 95% of that time BUT I was doing "other things" at the same time.

The first 1 1/2 yrs. of our marriage I was @ home w/baby, living w/ in laws (we were pg and married @ 19), H working part time and school part time, next 3 or 4 yrs I was in school full time, H was working full time and school part-time and year 3 or 4 A w/ OW.

Finally quit school after realizing I was wasting MY time and missing son's life, went howe to be full-time SAHM.

Financial strain....H excessive spender, every aspect of life out of control, A, bankruptcy, H laid off for awhile, I got a part-time job....D-DAY.....seperate, work part time while living w/ friends. OW says NC, we agree.

Get back together, BC starting K, we make life decision to "homeschool". Life is good. Next baby arrives. Life is better.

(Edited to add: BTW; majority of mothers in our "homeschool group" do some form of "work" (mostly outside of the home) part-time to earn extra income while homeschooling and raising family)

Then another baby expected...and getting sued for CS, life sucks. I trust court system will be fair and consider our BC welfare. I'm wrong. H loses 20% of income for CS....MUST get job to make up for difference. H has changed jobs for medical (his) and emotional(mine) reasons and now makes even less but CS based on og income (takes time to get changes made)

I am blessed that I can still be a SAHM and homeschool while earning extra income to make up for difference. My grandma has alzhiemers/dementia so I watch her 2 days out of the week for the extra income I earn.

OW has made comments to me that implied her "bitterness" towards MY life compared to her "hard" life and I finally got so tired of it that I finally told her I HAD to work to make up for difference in loss of income because of CS. But she sees all the legal/court paper work so she should know, she chooses to work "part-time" (and makes way more than me! and gets welfare & CS) and go to school during the day, and she chose to have another child w/no father.

NEVER were we in the life of luxury. We were/are living paycheck to paycheck and we own nothing. But we had made a choice in our lifestyle to live how we were. Things were tight but we were "ok", definately no luxury but very blessed by our choices.

Did all our Christmas shopping @ the thrift store. No complaints, I've learned to make frugalness into an artform. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Our children (all 4 including OC) were more than spoiled this Christmas and received more from us then they ever had in the past and I'm proud to say I don't think I spent more than $20 per kid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (we live in a very materialistic society and I take full advantage of the "overabundance" of practically brand new toys and clothes @ the thrift store in my neighborhood <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

So I think, looking @ us from the "outside" or maybe from OW point of view, maybe we live the "high life" but our family, friends and pocket book, know the truth! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[ December 26, 2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]

I have worked full time since the day I got out of college.
After the birth of my child I went back to work when he was 4 days old.
H took a year off to "find "himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and I was the sole breadwinner for that entire year.

[ January 12, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: litlone ]

kt bunch,
dont feel bad about the thrift stores, my mother taught us girls young how to stretch our dollars, if not for those stores, we would not have our home furnished as cozy as it is and our children wouldnt have all the neat stuff i find. and their clothes designer finds are a bargain, no one would have guessed. it is amazing what you can find. it has truly helped us stretch our finances. most of my kids love to shop there or garage sales, yet my oldest daughter hates them, yet she cant wait to see what i have gotten for her and my granddaughters, even her girlfriend who wont step foot into one, will give me requests to find her things. she is amazed what i find. I enjoy bargain hunting.

KT and FH my dad was/is the same way. We had a large family and my parents shoped alot a thrift stores. In fact my dad stills shops there. He has alztimers (sp?) but he has not forgotten a deal. He knows the days that they put out new things and makes my mom drive him down there. It's his weekly outing. I'll be doing more of it too in the coming months and I'm not ashamed to have to do it. My kids are into dress up clothes now and if you've checked the prices at Wal-mart they are 20.00 plus a piece. I get there dress up dresses there and am able to get them like 3 or 4 for that amount. So in totaly agreement with you girls.