Question for all (OW, BS, WS) - Marriage Builders® Forums

A recent post by Fortheboys has me thinking about my similar situation. The OW in our relationship is expecting a child. She lives several states away and my husband wants no contact, which is fine w/ me. However, I also have questions concerning b-days and Christmas. I feel that we should send something, even if it is just gift certificates for the ow to use to buy gifts/ clothes. I feel that it will make things easier when the child comes knocking on our door years from now. At least she'll know that we did think about her. Hopefully she'll understand why we made our decisions. Of course, for the first few years it won't make a difference to the child, but when she's old enough to understand, I feel that it may be more difficult because she'll wonder "why does my father send me a gift, but he never comes to see me." This is all so complicated! My husband and I have a young child together already, which makes this even more complicated. Anyway, my question is for ow or anyone who has custody of a child w/out the other parent's involvement--- How would you feel about receiving gifts for b-days and Christmas for your child. Would it make things more difficult? Thanks for your help!

my personal feelings are if you are insisting on no contact and do not want involvement in that childs life, leave it alone, Dont send gifts to ease your guilt. It will do nothing but cause pain and problems for the child and the ow.

I guess I just do not see a point in any of it. let your cs do its job and move on.

as a BS, WS and a former OW thats how i feel. your best bet would be to ask the ow how she feels after all if your husband and you are not having contact it is her decision to make for the child.

My first experience with this is with my H son. I grew up without my father so I wanted to make sure my H son knew he had a father that cared about him. His son was half way across the country and we had NC because that is what his mother wanted. Long story there. But it was me that shopped for his birthday gifts, and cards. It was pretty easy at first...but as he got older it got harder to figure out what he would like. Trying to buy presents and think about what age he is now...and what might interest a child of his age it was hard not to emotionally care about this child. Now he is 13...we sent a card with a check this last birthday. That is a lot easier as they get older. I think gift cards to toys R us when they are younger..or a store like that is a good idea. But I have a son that is 12 and we usually shop at sporting good stores now. Except for playstation games-Toys R Us doesn't excite him like it used to. When his son was younger his grandma used to write us and tell us that he really liked his present and tell us about him and send a picture. That was really great! Now we get nothing...not even a thank you. So I wonder how much longer I want to keep putting ourselves out there. His son is old enough now he should be able to call or write a thank you. I know his mother has really trash talked his father to him. So maybe he will never have the urge to seek out his fathers side.
Now from my perspective. The twins (OC) will hopefully be raised knowing about their biological father. I hoped they are raised just knowing from such a early age that they just feel like they have always known about him...just as some kids always know that they were adopted from an early age. I think the feeling of always just knowing is a lot better than dropping a big bomb later. But I would welcome cards and gifts...especially when they are older and are able to understand.
An idea I did with a lot of nieces and nephews that are far away...I sent a card and it had a dollar per age in it. So they always knew that we were thinking of them on their special day. Then they had some money for the piggy bank too. Maybe if you wrote the OW and asked/told her this is what you would like to do she won't get used to you spending alot on a present. Because the whole point is letting the child know you are thinking of them. So you could start on the childs first birthday...put a dollar in the card and just keep it going. Then when the child is 10 or older MAYBE you would want to up it to say $20-25. Just an idea.

as mom of five wrote: as a BS, WS and a former OW thats how i feel. your best bet would be to ask the ow how she feels after all if your husband and you are not having contact it is her decision to make for the child.

I agree with that...and I would add if you take the venture to send a card which I don't think is such a bad idea...try to be consistent in it. I think you said the child is several states away...so it isn't like he is in town sending something but won't see the child. Just my point of view.

4 tori,

dealing with a neice or nephew is alot different than a child , you have decided you want nothing to do with.

Again ask the mother before doing anything. i just dont see the point, and what thank you would a child give, so you send a card on his bday or a small gift it hardly replaces a fathers love and care.

ok so what happens when you let the child know your thinking of them, Does the child then wonder why you dont love them enough to call or come see them? Is it then up to the mother to explain, you care enough about them to remember their birthday but their existance is to painful to hold them or love them, or be in their life?

If you are serious about NO contact, you should leave it at NO contact.

again just my opinion.

bY the way 4tori,
i cant remember all the details of your story, but would you feel better if the children father stayed in contact with you over the twins, or if he just disapeared if he wasnt going to have contact,

maybe i am just cranky today, i just see this as a very confusing thing in the eyes of a child?

[ January 21, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]

dealing with a niece or a nephew is different. My point there was sending a consistent card with a money amount that could be expected. When dealing with my H son we would send expensive gifts and then we hit some hard times and it was hard to send those kind of gifts. So I really worried about how he must of felt when we had to finally cut back.

I think every situation is different. I think things can work out if both parents talk about it and agree to something in the begining. Then be consistent. In our case XMM is chosing NC(well, he kind of flip flops a little on that) but if he wanted to send a card I would welcome it because I do plan to raise the kids with them knowing. I think how the OW plans to raise the kid is a big factor. Because if she is single and she needs to start telling the child something at a certain age she might welcome a card around birthdays and Christmas as well. You don't know until you talk to OW. I think a lot of OW get mad and do some of these crazy things because they are feeling like the father just moved on and isn't caring a bit about this child. So they lash out any way they can. Of course there are many opinions out there! These are complex situations and not one thing works for everyone.

We have no contact and send the child support. The first Christmas my H sent the child a little extra.
I agree with Mo5 on this one. My thoughts were that any extra would indicate to the child, especially when he/she is older, that it is a gesture of maybe relieving the guilt, to say..."well, I thought about you this holiday..." As that child, (and I have oftentimes tried to put myself in the childs shoes), I would wonder about why he hasn't had the TIME for me...
I guess with that type of gesture I would be questioning the intentions behind it all.
JMHO

NGU

Wow that is a good question and everyone has made some good points. I would intitly say I agree with 4tori....but mo5 made some very good points too. I think at this point (which I could change my mind later when I am there in that part of this saga) I would allow the gifts and/or extra money. Anything is a step better than what is already there right? But I'm thinking about this and saying to myself "how would I explain this if there is no contact with her father"? This one too is a toughie. Maybe a thought....if your going to spend money on the child but insist on nc.....put the money in a savings account in trust of the child and when the child turns 18, send the child that money? With a letter maybe explaining that your mother and father both did things that were best for there lives, but I did think of you all these years, I don't know......Geez why does everything have to be so complicated.

I thought of this while running kids this afternoon.. I think if the father didnt have contact but sent cards and such, I would keep and give to the child at the appropriate time and age.

then maybe explain a bit more, after all the child would know they had a father somewhere...

a very tuff thing to answer and i can thing of answers on all sides

momof5 I agree me too.

Good idea guys...I never thought of that...Hmmm maybe something I should ask H?
NGU

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Panda22:
...I feel that it will make things easier when the child comes knocking on our door years from now.<hr /></blockquote>I don't think you should assume the child will come knocking on your door years from now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Panda22:
...Of course, for the first few years it won't make a difference to the child... <hr /></blockquote>If what you say is correct, then it probably makes sense for you not to send any gifts.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Panda22:
... Would it make things more difficult?
<hr /></blockquote>Regardless of what you do, it will be up to the xOW mother to decide whether she will even give the gifts to the child and/or how she will communicate the gift-giving.

What if your husband wrote to the child when you feel the child is old enough to understand his position?

But even then, it would be at the mom's discretion so you can't really guarantee that your true feelings will be conveyed.

The mom created this complicated situation for her kid, why not let her deal with the emotional aspects of it? How does your husband feel? Are you guys in agreement on how this should be handled?

I think that if the child doesn't know your husband, the gifts won't matter much. Kids spell love, t-i-m-e.

[ January 21, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]

The mom created this complicated situation for her kid, why not let her deal with the emotional aspects of it? How does your husband feel? Are you guys in agreement on how this should be handled?

I think that if the child doesn't know your husband, the gifts won't matter much. Kids spell love, t-i-m-e.

I agree with that last sentence you made. Although, seeing these situations are tough for everyone involved, Any effort I think even being made that is true and sencere is better than nothing. And if the xow cares anything about her child she will present them at the apporiate time.

Panda,
SO much will depend on the XOW. The custodial parent controls what the child sees and hears and the attitude that goes with it. You should get her take before you get involved.

We are also long distance. XOW insisted on teaching OC about DH from the beginning (told us she put H picture on the 'fridge and taught her it was "daddy" from day 1 etc.). We mailed things to OC for the first 4y. However, our (rocky anyway) relationship w/XOW deteriorated at that point and we've had no-contact since. We don't agree with how the mother has handled things and any positives were definately outweighed by the negatives. It was her way or no way. I have regrets, and of course DH regrets the whole A.

Be careful. There's not much you can do, either way.

J

Panda,

I C&P'ed my post from the other thread...

***As to the issue of dealing with the child's birthday...
I am of the opinion that simply sending a birthday or Christmas card to the child is healthy for that child. I think it will lessen any feelings of abandonment the child may feel in the future. I wish that 5 years from now I would have a shoebox full of cards to pull out and give to my son, just so that he knows that twice a year he wasn't totally forgotten. (I do wish that my child's Grandparents would do that, at the least) Now, I have evil feelings about his father, so the fact that he isn't around doen't bother ME, per se, but I worry that my child will internalize the rejection, and that it will bother HIM. Especially because he will grow up seeing what a close relationship his older brother has with his father (My ex, not the baby's dad).
However, I can understand your discomfort if the OW is still trying to keep contact with your H though...that would be hard to digest.

Good Luck!****

There is no "right answer", it is a VERY tough spot you're in! The reason I have some strong feelings on issues of this sort is that I have done EXTENSIVE research into the emotional effects NC has on the child....

[ January 22, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: sofaraway ]

Sofaraway,
it's always ironic... You as our XOW probably would've worked out fine-- i.e. similar ideas about the level of contact.

That's the point I was trying (poorly) to make: if XOW and the couple AGREE on the level/type of contact, it's likely to work, and if they are not in agreement... forget it.

My 2c,
J, 5y recovery and glad

My view from life experiences:

Scenario 1: NC With Giving Gifts & Cards for Special Occasions
-Who is this person that sends me these things? (My father yes, but I DON'T EVEN KNOW HIM)
-Why can't they visit me in person? (ABANDONMENT)
-Do they think my love is so cheap it can be bought with a card once a year? (ANGER, LOW SELF ESTEEM)

Scenario 2: NC Point Blank
-Who is my dad?
-Why Doesn't my dad love me?
-Why doesn't my dad want to see me?
-I bet my dad is THE BEST PERSON IN THE WORLD, if only I knew him life would be perfect.
-Why doesn't my dad make an effort to find me?
-Is my mom keeping me from my dad? If so, I HATE her.
All leading to low self esteem, abandonment issues, anger issues & false hopes of what life COULD be like.

Scenario 3: Contact
-I know my dad, thus I know who I am
-My mom and my dad don't live together
-I am loved at my mom's house, I am loved at my dad's house

I don't see why so many people choose NC.

Human, start your OWN thread. Contact has been debated so many USELESS times on these boards.

I repeat, if XOW and the couple agree on the level of contact, it will likely work, and if they don't, it won't.

This board just a mini-example of how ugly contact can get! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jenny:
[QB] Human, start your OWN thread. Contact has been debated so many USELESS times on these boards.

***edited**Justuss***** I was addressing the TOPIC ISSUE of C/NC/Sending Gifts.

<<posted January 21, 2004 01:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
However, I also have questions concerning b-days and Christmas. >>

[ January 22, 2004, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Human:
 Scenario 3: Contact
-I know my dad, thus I know who I am
-My mom and my dad don't live together
-I am loved at my mom's house, I am loved at my dad's house

I don't see why so many people choose NC. <hr /></blockquote>Nice rose-colored glasses you have there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wow! I really didn't expect so many replies to this post! I think that I'm just really confused right now. I agree, "there is no right answer!" Thank you all for your responses. Good luck to you.

<<***edited**Justuss*****>>

edited?
you edited "*****yep!!****"?

for ****'s sake people.

this has got to be the most ******* board that i've ever come accross. it's filled with nothing but ***********

i actually thought about coming back and giving the board a second chance in case i jumped to conclusions too soon the first time...boy was i wrong.

please remove my registration

****bye****

[ January 23, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Take heart Human, as you are not alone.
In fact, you make sense. And don't let others drive you off.

It's sad that many of these WS have NO Problem with "contact" when it suits Their needs (sex, fun, excitement).. but then are so quick to walk away when a problem (in their eyes) comes into the picture. It takes Alot More than just $money$ to raise a child.

No one says they have to be with the OP. But a child is for life. If you feel you made a mistake, great, deal with it. But do not condem an innocent for your actions. Don't just have your fun and then expect to walk away. That child needs you as much as the child you wanted.

And no, it not just "rose colored glasses". Will it be hard? Of course. The situation the WS created makes it that way. However, you seem willing to do the Hard Work it takes to save and heal your marriage. Then you can do the Hard work it takes to raise a child born out of infidelity. Children not only deserve to know who they are and where they came from, they need it.

The WS had no problem getting with the OP, so take the necessary steps to make it right. Easy or not.

Justuss..

We are being infiltrated by Trolls. Could we lock this baby up? This post is indicative of a trouble maker beating the C drum and we have ALL heard it and regurgitated it before a bazillion times and we are so bored with it and none of us care about this topic or what she thinks. This kind of thing has NOTHING to do with Marriage Builders. These kind of people should take this issue up with their XMM or clergyman or go on the "other board". Discussing this wityh a Betrayed is insane since we had nothing to do with any of this from the beginning.

Thanks

Cat =^^=