Married OW VS Single OW - Marriage Builders® Forums

I was curious...I hear so much about these awful OW I wonder how many of these OW are/were single. How many people deal with MOW? I feel as a MOW I have bent over backwards so much for XMM and his family. It seems like full house tried to be fair to her XMM also. So I have wondered about this for awhile.

Maybe the difference is, being married we are not intrested in leaving our spouse for the other person. Most of us infact given the choice would not leave. We are working on making our marriage better, not working on keeping the other person. We also may not seem as much of a threat to a bs, because they can see we are working on our marriage.

I dont know , but i do know i work my but off to be fair and try and make every one happy, sometimes a difficult task.

I dont think it will ever be perfect, but i am ok with it most of the time.

Something om and I have learned is to comunicate about the baby and respect each others wishes when it involves our child. We have a few issues that have not been ironed out, but I am guessing they will be by the end of this year.

I Know I often drive 80 miles round trip to take my daughter, because he is just getting back from a business trip and such. but he would do the same if I asked. I always make sure she has proper clothes, and extras for any occasion they might have. I send extra toys and videos, and they now do the same, I share all pictures they make me a cd of pics when they have her.

We share every thing she is doing or learning, sleep habits, books, bedtime, rules for the most part are about the same. We let each other know if she is ill, and what meds she might have. We also try and back each other up if we have said no, so the other one doesnt come and say yes and undermine one parent or the other.

We [by we I mean om or his wife] tell each other what we have bought her, so the other parent doesnt waste money doing the same. but it took alot of work to get to this point, and the work wont stop here, we have a long way to go. it isnt unusual for one of us to call, just to tell the other about a darling outfit we found.
the difference, I am absorbed in my husband and kids, I have no intrest in being married to om. I dont want him. maybe she handles it because she sees that , or maybe she handles it because he insisted. I dont know.

the down side, sometimes it is hard to smile and be nice, and other days his wife has reminders and it triggers a episode, I usually ignore them and move on and the next time i see her, she is over it.

4: You say you bent over backward for XMM and his family, just how might I ask? ****edited**Justuss****

Mo5: You say you have a hard time being nice, why? The BS is the victim of actions of which you are 50% responsible for. Why would you be the one having a hard time being nice? By allowing that child into her life SHE is the nice and kind one. Then you also state that a BW considers an OW a threat? Suddenly we are thereatened by OW and that is why we are angry? Why would you say that YOU would not be interested in leaving your marriage, but then turn around and assume that a BS is somehow threatened by your presence? As if your marriage is somehow different, strong and that no way would you ever leave your husband. Can't you see that the MM is also thinking the same thing? That he is caught and he chooses his marriage? Yet you make it seem that you would never leave your husband but that of course your MM would leave his wife???????

As for married or single? Makes no difference. OW are OW. Plain and simple. Just as I'm sure your husband really doesn't think that it would make a difference.

OW have proven,over and over, married or single to be bunny boilers. They care little for anyone else but themselves and their children. They are angry when a family unites and decides to turn their backs on her, as if she is somehow to be respected or valued as the mother of the oc. Not realizing that the nuclear family, in some cases wants nothing to do with either. They use the oc as a pawn for their anger at being left in the dust. Or they have the selfish nerve to somehow be angry at the wife when the H stays in the marriage.

You can believe everything he told you, and you consider it all true. But when he goes home and tells his wife about you, suddenly it is all lies? Did you ever stop and think that the story he was telling you was a lie?

So no, it makes no difference if the ow/om is single or married. The end result is the same. Why would it even matter. What matters is how an op acts. How many wives on here have OW who are calling and whining about no contact? How many people on here have tried contact only to have OW jerk them around, married or not.

So no, it makes no difference what the marital status of an OW is. Once the affair is over, if OW keeps putting her nose into the marriage, and certainly her oc does just that, she is not liked and is seen as a bit psycho. Especially when she is told to leave them alone, or is overly rude to the wife.

[ January 22, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

cute comments but hardly needed, Do you feel better now?

gotta run, but would be more than happy to answer your questions in a min. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

: You say you bent over backward for XMM and his family, just how might I ask? *****edited**Justuss**..... tasteless and hardly productive **

Mo5: You say you have a hard time being nice, why? i said sometimes, and sometimes something is said or done by her, that requires my attention and i have to maintain a polite relationship, there fore I do

The BS is the victim of actions of which you are 50% responsible for.

no kidding? I knew that Why would you be the one having a hard time being nice?
again you dont know the situation hard for you to guess. i am pretty darn nice all the time to her. I said sometims...

By allowing that child into her life SHE is the nice and kind one.

you think? lets see, i didnt ask them to be a part of her life, i was retty darn content and would be pretty darn content if they left tomorrow. I didnt take them to court, I dont make them pay any thing they cant or dont want to pay, my husband and myself absorb 99% of the cost. but since her husband decided he wanted contact and ask me to help him do that, we did, and have left things as are. i am glad she is learning to love my child, however she tends to be mean and nasty ever so often and that is om's words not mine, i tell him and he takes care of it, end of story.,

Then you also state that a BW considers an OW a threat?

I was a bw and yes i considered ow a threat, hell if they are not a threat to your marriage what is?

Suddenly we are thereatened by OW and that is why we are angry?

Didnt say that is why your angry, We were discussing why there are so many horror stories when the ow is single, Perhaps I should have said having a husband gives you the needes support, and the drama just isnt there. who knows?

Why would you say that YOU would not be interested in leaving your marriage, but then turn around and assume that a BS is somehow threatened by your presence? As if your marriage is somehow different, strong and that no way would you ever leave your husband. Can't you see that the MM is also thinking the same thing? That he is caught and he chooses his marriage? Yet you make it seem that you would never leave your husband but that of course your MM would leave his wife???????

yOur picking and assume a lot about something you no none of, i am speaking of my situation only and I know alot about my life, seeing as how I am living it.

As for married or single? Makes no difference. OW are OW. Plain and simple. Just as I'm sure your husband really doesn't think that it would make a difference.

there you go assumeing again, yOu met my husband and now you know what he thinks as well?

OW have proven,over and over, married or single to be bunny boilers.
Well i bet if we made a few list, we could put a few wives on there as well, haha this is pointless. Of course there are crazy ow, just as there are crazy om, and wives and husbands. People are people, but not every one is crazy my dear.

They care little for anyone else but themselves and their children.

Again your lumping every person in the same catagory, i work hard to make sure every ones feelings are looked at for every situation we have.

They are angry when a family unites and decides to turn their backs on her, as if she is somehow to be respected or valued as the mother of the oc.

i am respected and valued as the mother of my child. Om and I work hard to respect each others decisions and and he insures that everyone in his family does the same, I do the same with my family. Just makes for a nicer life for all the children, like the children of the marriage and the oc.

Not realizing that the nuclear family, in some cases wants nothing to do with either. I am perfectly content to not have them in my family life and so was my husband, but he is the bio father and has that right, there fore we recognise it. i certainly didnt want to bring all this in to my family but i will not ignore his rights either. he isnt my enemy.

They use the oc as a pawn for their anger at being left in the dust. Or they have the selfish nerve to somehow be angry at the wife when the H stays in the marriage.

again your assuming that is the case for all, i feel nothing about any of it, they are merely people I have to deal with to ensure my child is safe and happy.

You can believe everything he told you, and you consider it all true. But when he goes home and tells his wife about you, suddenly it is all lies? Did you ever stop and think that the story he was telling you was a lie?

I OFTEN WONDER why women dont see that? I wont argue with you, it is a true statement, every woman should see. of course he is a liar, i never said he wasnt, he knows that, haha

So no, it makes no difference if the ow/om is single or married. The end result is the same. Why would it even matter. What matters is how an op acts. How many wives on here have OW who are calling and whining about no contact?

alot it seems, Again, i dont know wat kind of people these are, one would wonder where they drug them up? How many people on here have tried contact only to have OW jerk them around, married or not. Again, some but not all.

How many people could honestly say they tried to be kind and respectful and do what was best for the children at all times, seems every one lacked at sometime or another. We are all human.

So no, it makes no difference what the marital status of an OW is. Once the affair is over, if OW keeps putting her nose into the marriage, and certainly her oc does just that, she is not liked and is seen as a bit psycho. Especially when she is told to leave them alone, or is overly rude to the wife.

maybe the case, however not in ours, we are all pretty open and friendly with each other. We call and share things, we have lunch, we Dont sit around and think of mean things to do to each other. We all get excited when our d learns something new. What is the point of fighting when you can make this a positive thing, and make your marriage better and stronger in the process.

I dont think they consider my daughter a problem in their marriage, they look forward to spending time with her, and think of her often.

I believe they consider her a blessing, that comes from his wife not om.

hhHmmmmmmmm what to make for dinner, you know maybe boiled bunny isnt bad??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

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[ January 22, 2004, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]

Lynn g., you are so funny. You just have the nerve to say what many of us think and that upsets people. WE all try to be so PC but hey....why mince words right?

m0f5 I appreciate that you and mm work so hard to make things work for OC. That's great. You must be "one in a million".

I have been told to just wait until OW gets a "man" and things will be easier.....not expecting that to happen. OW says she does not "believe" in marriage(I guess just destroying them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ),which she has proven by having 2 children by 2 different men(OC is the oldest). Our OC is currently the only one with an involved dad.

I really wish she had someone else so maybe she would have something else and somewhere else to focus her energy. But then she would have to give up her "poor me--I'm all by myself--doing everything alone--martyr" status.

I know how easy it is to focus on one irritating trait or incident and exaggerate it just to make her look bad so I really try to see her as a real person, a struggling single mom who has made some "mistakes", if you will, and you know what? I still come to the same conclusion, she's an IDIOT who takes no responsibility for any of HER actions.

I wish she'd really find someone to "rescue" her and then she can blame someone else for her problems.

no one can rescue her... just her self, same for all of us, we have to make the changes ourselves.

I cant make any one do what I want, but I can set an example for them to follow and if someone is polite and nice long enough you cant help but try and work on doing the same. my love for my child is far greater than any thing I feel for her or him. there fore it makes it unimportant.

So if you know you have been just and fair and she is still an idiot, then so be it, let someone else handle it. I am merely explaining how we choose to do this thats all. It doesnt work for every one, but om and I have a long long hystory and frankly our concern for our child, out weighs some of the crap that could happen. but it isnt perfect, we have issues that havent been resolved, but none have to do with the relationship we had or have[parenting relationship].

I just think it is easier for her to not spend so much time worrying about me, because she sees my husband and i working so hard to be whole again. i also think it is easier to deal with me, because she and i have already talked, i have apologised years ago and we put the past behind us.
That doeant mean she likes me, haha, she cant stand me, and I dont like her much either, but that isnt important We agreed to have all of us in our childs life there fore the rest has to be put aside. and yes sometimes it is hard for all of us. I would guess it is harder for my husband and his wife than it is for myself and om. but they both work hard on this as well. I AM grateful to both for accepting our way of doing things.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LynnG:

OW have proven,over and over, married or single to be bunny boilers. They care little for anyone else but themselves and their children. They are angry when a family unites and decides to turn their backs on her, as if she is somehow to be respected or valued as the mother of the oc. Not realizing that the nuclear family, in some cases wants nothing to do with either. They use the oc as a pawn for their anger at being left in the dust. Or they have the selfish nerve to somehow be angry at the wife when the H stays in the marriage.
<hr /></blockquote>Lynn. Where do you get these facts? I'd be curious to know. #1 - I'm an EX-OW. I have never boiled a bunny, nor felt the need to.
#2 - Of course I care very much for my son, and myself - because if I don't, who will? I also have dear friends that I care for greatly, am I, as and xOW not *allowed* to have friends??
#3 - I have NEVER, nor would I EVER, use my son as a pawn. That's just wrong.
#4 - I'm happy xMM is still in his marriage. I wish them the best.
#5 - You disturb me greatly. You give people legal advice and you are not an attorney. You generalize all OW in the same category - a category system that YOU made up. Believe it or not, I agree with SOME of what you say - that people need to protect themselves. That goes for everyone - BW, OW, etc. But some of what you have contributed is just wrong.

It just shows you how some people never get over the pain,no matter how many years have past, im sorry there is still so much anger in your life. it must be hard living with such a heavy heart. i hope peace will enter it soon and relieve you of all the anger you tend to lash out at people.
full house

lynnG-I read your posts and I don't feel threatened when you tell people how to protect thereselves and their family. I am sorry you are so shallow and think ALL OW are lumped into one category. Hey I listen to some BS and I think their actions are pretty shallow. I don't have the time to explain how I got into the relationship with XMM. Or everything I have done because I am trying to ease this situation for him and his family. XMM offered to pay child support about 1/3 of what I would get if I went to court...he doesn't have to pay 1/2 of any child care, he doesn't have the kids on his medical, or does he pay for any of their medical costs. When he offered support, he took a whole year to even start paying it regularly. So he has only been paying that for the last 6 months. NEVER once did I call him and get on his case. Never have I called his house...but he calls here and so has his wife. I am always very nice to both of them and show respect to them. I have gotten angry at them because he made promises in our oral agreement and then starts to flake out saying he doesn't think he can do this or that. The wife calls saying she wants to see the kids, but not XMM...so I accomodate to where she can visit with them. Then she backs out. I am very patient with them. But at times I wish we would have just went through the courts.

One place you are wrong is I have NEVER wanted to be with XMM. When his wife called I answered her questions but not to the full extent of what the affair was. I didn't offer more information on how her H persued me and the lies he told me. So LynnG you don't see everything for what/who they are. His wife did tell me what he told her about me. I didn't ask for that info. It was all good anyways. It probably does make it easier when the H makes the OW out to be some crazy person. In some cases it could be true. But I think everyones true colors come out when you start dealing with the OC. As I have said before these situations are so complicated there can't be one answer that will fit everyone. Not every OW is the same, what a BS can handle is not what another can, some WS make good parents to all of their kids and some can't and it goes on and on.

Well, I am sorry but I have been interrupted. Lost my thoughts and I need to go anyway. I do think there is a difference between a lot of MOW and single OW. But I think there are plenty of exceptions to that.

Originally posted by 4tori&natesake:

One place you are wrong is I have NEVER wanted to be with XMM.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Are you saying you had sex with a man you did not want to be with?

What do you mean by what you wrote. If you don't mind.

I am confused. (But, I am old .... so it's OK)

Pep

Ah, the OW and their supporters out whining again I see.

Hey, you say you did not ASK FOR THEM TO BE IN YOUR LIFE. Well then why are you pregnant with another mans child? Not only did you ask for it, you all but insured it would happen.

As for you saying how hard you work to maker sure everyones feelings are looked at, more OW lies. Cause in your next passive agressive, full of typical OW logic, you state how you are respected as the mother of the oc, and that if his wife "gets mean and nasty, you tell him and end of story". As if you and only you have feelings that matter here. Grow up darlin, you can bet your XMM has you painted as a lunatic and that his childs only hope for a decent life is for his wife to be part of it. Do you really think BW are so pathetic and weak that we would spend one second with a man who would look us in the eyes and say "BW, you can't be mean to OW, it makes her feel bad". There isn't a man alive who would be standing had he said any words like that. You are assuming that your XMM is holding you in some high regard and is blasting his wife for being mean to you?

Once again, seeing it the way you want it to be.

Oh and pops, I feel sorry for you. Yes I get angry at the stuff these women spew forth on this board.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LynnG:
 Ah, the OW and their supporters out whining again I see.

**JM: xOW, if you don't mind. And I didn't sense one whine in my post at all.

Hey, you say you did not ASK FOR THEM TO BE IN YOUR LIFE. Well then why are you pregnant with another mans child? Not only did you ask for it, you all but insured it would happen.

**JM: Not sure WHO or WHAT you're talking about here...

As for you saying how hard you work to maker sure everyones feelings are looked at, more OW lies. Cause in your next passive agressive, full of typical OW logic, you state how you are respected as the mother of the oc, and that if his wife "gets mean and nasty, you tell him and end of story". As if you and only you have feelings that matter here. Grow up darlin, you can bet your XMM has you painted as a lunatic and that his childs only hope for a decent life is for his wife to be part of it. Do you really think BW are so pathetic and weak that we would spend one second with a man who would look us in the eyes and say "BW, you can't be mean to OW, it makes her feel bad". There isn't a man alive who would be standing had he said any words like that. You are assuming that your XMM is holding you in some high regard and is blasting his wife for being mean to you?

**JM: I'm going to assume that you're talking to momof5 here, and not me, but for the record - I don't care what xMM thinks of me, or his wife. I'm not in their lives, they're not in mine.

Once again, seeing it the way you want it to be.

**JM: HUH?

Oh and pops, I feel sorry for you. Yes I get angry at the stuff these women spew forth on this board.

**JM: Actually I think that pops made quite a bit of sense in what he said. And the only one I see spewing anything on this board is you, Lynn. You don't like it when someone disagrees with you, do you? I would say that eventually it gets better, but you seem to be so far gone, that I doubt that will ever happen.<hr /></blockquote>

I notice a pattern. All the responses that disagree with LynnG, are spouses that are working on their marriage, that have contact. I did not notice any comments from anyone with no contact.

mom of five, You are always very smug, and self-rightious of your situation, and what works for you. You may put your children, all of them, first, before your marriage, but I put my marriage first, before all children. Children grow up and have their own life. I am living mine now. My marriage comes first. As far as I am concerned, your exOM has a wife for a saint. You are blessed.

LynnG, I like you. The real difference between us, is our(yours and mine), OW. I spent a week-end with my OW in 1996. No contact since. I have a certain amount of respect for my H's exOW. If I had never met her, I do not think I would still be married today.

It seems like the C/NC war again.

ember

Oh, I'm crushed, as your opionion matters so very much to me. Get a grip on yourself. You are an OW, and in the context of this board, and such, your views, in my opinon are worthless.

I do not dispense legal advise, I advise people to get some. But that bugs people like you.

As for disagreeing with people, well no kidding. I see you and others of your ilk on here, spouting off about contact being so important, etc. I come on here and say, no, not only is it ok to not have contact, it is probably for the better and the ow and their supporters get all a twitter. As if it is a totally foreign concept for the BW to have any say whatsoever. How dare Lynn G tell people to get laywers and think this thing out!!!! What a riot.

The bottom line of this message is it makes no difference if the OW is married or not.

for YOUR record, I agree that people should get legal advice - ALL people. And for the rest of the record - I'm an EX OW, not an OW. My son is 7, and there is NC. And I was a single OW. Not married. And I'm still not whining, just calling it as I see it. Which seems to bother YOU. I've never come here and been disrespectful, and actually have made friends with some of the BW here (GASP! can it really be true?!). As for me being all in a twitter? That would be giving you far too much credit. You're not worth a twitter, or even a twinge as far as I'm concerned. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The above post is for Josh Mom.

Ember,thank you. I notice that too. Actually, there are OW too who love to disagree with me.

Good grief, didn't mom of 5 even state that my comment about bending over backwards was tasteless???? That is a riot considering she was an OW.

I love to rile those types up. It just kills them to see that there are other points of view and that people think things.

I just don't want some BW to be swayed by any of these OW who want to push their own agenda.

Bye

I agree, it makes no difference if OW is M or not.

ember

I said I didnt ask them to be in our life after the child was born, BUT om changed his mind and wanted to be part of her life. it s ok,

your wrong , I know how om paints me to his wife, it is very obvious and she has told me. Why does that bother you so much? I am respected as my childs mother , I cant think of a reason i shouldnt be, She is a lovely child who is well provided for and loved tremendously. I am a good mother, he knows that and agrees. his wife isnt crazy about me but she too knows i am a good mother.

To understand my remark about mean and nasty you would have to know his wife, She has an unusual personality and has been this way and towards every one not just me. She cant hold a job because she is sometimes a little odd. but please know just because i may gripe about her here, does not mean i dont treat her with respect when i se eher, because i do.

I am not whining on the contrary,I like my life and we[my husband and myself] are better than we have been in many many years.

How do you know what om would say or not say, You dont have a clue what he is like. And yes he demands that I receive respect in his home as our childs mother. maybe the difference here is his age. but I show his wife the same respect, works both ways and he wouldnt think twice about telling me or her, exactly what he expects.

tell me something ember, lynn,

what is so aweful if one case or two or three do work out and the ow such as my self dont end up miserable .And We get along. Why does that make you upset?

By the way that was fullhouse not pops.

Most of the XOW here don't have contact. Some that do either make it work or it does not. Lynn, just becasue someone had an affair does not make them the most horrible person on this earth. Geez your h cheated on you and you were able to forgive him and stay with him so that shows you not all people that cheat are horrible people. Not every women is some physco bimbo either. Who the he** would want to raise a child on there own so get pregnant on purpose? It's ok if it was an accident in the "marriage". If your havning sex it could be an accident no matter what...in the marriage a one night stand a long or short term relationship. Whatever. It happens. Lynn if it were not for you I would not of JUMPED on the wagon to hire an attorney and I thank you for that. I also think that "EVERYONE" should have one, it's no different than if you were divorced and going for child support. Just because we are going for cs does not mean we want your h any longer. Lynn sometimes I can see a hint of compasion in you but that is few and far between. You do catagory all OW in the same place, but you shouldn't. You shouldn't. HOw closed mind is that? I too have grown to respect a lot of bs here and have helped me to understand things more. For that I thank you all and you know who you are. I also feel that the mw who has had an affair and gone on to make there marriage work with the oc and the h accepting things and working with them so a lot of strenght coming on here and sharing. They too are trying to rebuild there lives and keep there family in tact and do what's right for all there kids. I just don't understand where you can forgive your h who was involved but you look at all these "xow" as horrible vendictive people who are just out get the xmm back.

<<OW have proven,over and over, married or single to be bunny boilers.>>

You've done a national survey including psychological evaluations? What breed of lagamorphs do they prefer to boil, the Angora or English Lop? I'm curious of your research project.

Way to stereotype. Kudos.

[ January 22, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Human ]

I think everyone should get an attorney too. I think that it makes it easier on everyone involved to have every I dotted and T crossed. That way everyone is protected. And that does include ow and oc.

For the record, I have been nice to ow who have come here and been in trouble. There was one who was afraid her child would be taken away and I truly did feel bad for her. I do believe that ow love their children. Most mothers do.

However, the points I am most vocal are the contact, and acceptance of oc. I simply will never believe that contact is necessary and certainly do not see any benefit to the marriage, nor the children of the marriage. I am also quite vocal about getting legal advice.

Some on here view BW who do not want contact, or anything to do with oc as wrong. They go on and on about how it works for them, and so forth. I give the other side of that. However, I am long past it, and the words I read can't hurt me. Unlike some of the other BW who are still reeling and hurting. So I tell it like I see it, and if someone wants to take stab, so be it. I am not vulnerable like others.

But I digress, An ow-type is wondering why if it would make a difference, and another ow type assumes it would and then goes on to enlighten us all as to why it would. Then when I disagree with her, she gets a wound up!!!

As for Josh mom, you have made some points and some friends here. Well I have made some friends here too, and am actually really good friends with one of the women here. Although she is on the private board. But I tell you this, until you are married and have this happen to you, it is pretty hard to determine what you would and wouldn't feel.

Originally posted by mom of five:
Maybe the difference is, being married we are not intrested in leaving our spouse for the other person.

Are you saying this #1 ~~ or this #2 ...

This #1. *During the affair* you had NO thoughts or interest about leaving your H for MM?

or

This #2. During recovery after the ending of the affair, you had NO thoughts or interest about leaving your H for MM?

I think this is a very important point.

Pep

Women!!!!

You have sex with a man you do not want to be with?

You do this in violation of your marriage vows?

You do this when your family is at home waiting for you?

And you do this act with a married man who has his own family at home waiting for him ....

and yet you say

"I don't want to BE WITH HIM"....??

You take this HUGE risk for what?

I don't get it.

Pep

Back to the original topic:

<<I was curious...I hear so much about these awful OW I wonder how many of these OW are/were single. How many people deal with MOW? I feel as a MOW I have bent over backwards so much for XMM and his family. It seems like full house tried to be fair to her XMM also. So I have wondered about this for awhile.>>

I think everyone is looking out for the best interest of the OC, regardless of OW's marital status. OW, WH & BW all are usually concerned for the OC's well being and all "bend over backwards" to find the right solution for their individual situation.

Originally posted by mom of five:
I have no intrest in being married to om. I dont want him.

And yet you made a baby with a man you are not interested in? While married with 4 kids?

I just don't understand why you would risk everything by having sex with a man you don't even "want"

Pep

[ January 22, 2004, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

Pepper I think she meant when it was over? I'm not positive but I think so.
I can see why she said that cause when I came out of the fog I KNOW I would never have xmm in my life as a partner in any way shape or form. A lot of true colors come out when either a d-day happens or something like this (pregnancy) happens. I personally have not had a d-day, so I know all of xmm's actions are his own, not his wife. I think that makes it easier for me not to blame where it should not go. When d-day happens and with this situation it will, I know who called the shots on the decision and this is a very good thing.

I know for a fact that MOW "wanted" my H. She told my MIL she wished she were his wife.

To risk your family, your reputation, STDs, your sanity and the sanctity of your vows for a man you don't "want" seems really strange and bizarre.

Pep

pep

What does this have to do with topic at hand,

I guess at one time many years ago om and I wanted to be together, yes I loved him and yes we did the whole baby name picking things and wishes for her when she grows up.

When it came down to it, i still wanted my husband and loved my husband and we decided to work on our marriage and give it one more chance. I dont see that as any different than these men who are wayward spouses who all of a sudden changed their mind nd are giving it another chance.

I was seperated when this started and a bs, and in an abusive situation, now years later and in a different place in my life, I love my husband we are trying to make a life for our selves and our children, and doing agood job of it. We have contact, it works because we make it work. It really is so simple.

Again you who scream the loudest dont seem to know my story or how I got to where I am. these things didnt happen over night, and it would take days to tell you the years of this and the emotions involved. I can only speak of where we are now, and as you and your spouses are entitled to be in love and have a good life and move on, Shouldnt I as a ws be entitled also.

I think if you dont want contact,, then dont, it is a good thing for you and your children, then do what you need to do.

We are just not able to do that and there fore try and make the best of it. I think thats ok as well. So why not make the best of it?

Originally posted by needtomoveon:
Pepper I think she meant when it was over? I'm not positive but I think so.

I don't know either. But a woman on this thread (page 1) said she "never" wanted to be with MM.

Seems so peculiar to take such bigs risks for someone who is NOT important to you.

And, by virtue of our physiological and anatomical differences .... the risks for women in an affair are BIGGER than a man's risks. Not fair, but true.

Sometimes. women don't respect the God-given beauty of their bodies, and mis-use themselves for no good reason.

Pep

Originally posted by mom of five:
[QB] pep

What does this have to do with topic at hand,

It seemed like a curious remark. I asked you for clarification.

I guess at one time many years ago om and I wanted to be together, yes I loved him and yes we did the whole baby name picking things and wishes for her when she grows up.

See, now this makes more sense than "doing it" with someone you did not want.

When it came down to it, i still wanted my husband and loved my husband and we decided to work on our marriage and give it one more chance. I dont see that as any different than these men who are wayward spouses who all of a sudden changed their mind nd are giving it another chance.

I agree .... except for the baby part. That makes a huge difference.

I was seperated when this started and a bs, and in an abusive situation, now years later and in a different place in my life, I love my husband we are trying to make a life for our selves and our children, and doing agood job of it. We have contact, it works because we make it work. It really is so simple.

MO5.... I am not discussing NC .... just adressing the unnecessary risks we sometimes take .... and the stakes are very HIGH when it comes to adultery.

Again you who scream the loudest dont seem to know my story or how I got to where I am.

I am not screaming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And, I have read this board for a long enough time to know your story ... or much of it.

these things didnt happen over night, and it would take days to tell you the years of this and the emotions involved. I can only speak of where we are now, and as you and your spouses are entitled to be in love and have a good life and move on, Shouldnt I as a ws be entitled also.

? Is this addressing what I asked you, or something else? I am a little lost with this paragraph. I think your marriage deserves to grow and thrive.

I think if you dont want contact,, then dont, it is a good thing for you and your children, then do what you need to do.

I don't have an OC.... and I assume you are talking to someone else, right?

We are just not able to do that and there fore try and make the best of it. I think thats ok as well. So why not make the best of it?

Make the best of life indeed.

So, at least for awhile, you DID want to be married to MM .... and yet .... you did not.

Pep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LynnG:
 didn't mom of 5 even state that my comment about bending over backwards was tasteless???? That is a riot considering she was an OW.

=^^= I'm appalled. I've been defending your right to say whatever you want, barring of course, disrespectful judgments. We have several XOW's here who are respected and accepted long time members who have been respectful of us and accepting of our POV's. And I am very upset to see you beating up on MOF when your assumptions are completely off base. I happen to know her quite well and know that most of everything you said about her was completely inaccurate. It sounds like you were spoiling for a fight, Lynn! I used to have an adversarial relationship with MOF a couple years ago and we have worked hard together to correct our inaccurate perceptions. I am not an OW supporter or champion their behavior...not by a long shot. But there are individual cases where certain women fall outside the Bunny-boiling profile. Especially X OW's...I'm talking X here.
Please be careful so as not to offend people like Tigger and Ohbratti, too. If you've been been around here long enough to know or understand our history or the dynamics that have brought us to where we are today...which I hope has evolved from earlier times, you'd know that everyone is treated with respect if they show adequate respect. The flip side of that is anyone coming here from the "other board" showing hostility or contempt is fair game and THEN it's perfectly OK for the gloves to come off...but, never ever throw that first punch. No one here should pick a fight.

I love to rile those types up. It just kills them to see that there are other points of view and that people think things.

=^^= Why on earth would you intentionally want to rile someone up? I once called the women on TOW a "nest of vipers" (with good reason) when they were congratulating each other for inflicting pain on a hapless BW. They were awful and they deserved it. Now the things you are saying are akin to what they have said and it doesn't serve us to inflame or start a board war...just to "rile". I don't think any oldtimers here can defend this behavior. It is not conducive to harmony.

I just don't want some BW to be swayed by any of these OW who want to push their own agenda.

=^^= No one can "sway" anyone...either way. No one is that powerful and its arrogant for anyone to think they are. MOF has not said anything that could sway anyone to embrace contact or feel guilty. Her situation is very unique and works for her. She is also a BW and has been in recovery for a couple years. In fact, last night I was just telling her that no one here is bitter and angry and that I "don't see it"; but, now I have to recant.

We have to present all kinds of possible alternatives to all newcomers so they can see some possibilities that fits their situation best...it could be a combination of two or three scenarios or one idea of their own inspired by someone else. Your advice of obtaining legal advice is impertive as well. Admittedly, NC absolutely works best for the majority, and we pound that home as best we can and comfort Betrayeds who have been forced to terminate Contact (because it almost always backfires...but sometimes you just gotta try it). None of these situations are a one size fits all.

Just like the women on TOW can't understand or imagine why we stay in our marriages, we can't understand how they could knowingly be invovled with a MM or keep the child to raise alone or why they lurk here or want to read our every word and alert each other on their site for a "board war" like it is an engraved invitation. Just don't give them ammunition. They LOVE this stuff. It's like waving a bloody steak in front of a hyena...just don't do it. There are glaring differences between the two camps and it will never change...leave it at that. There is no need to deliberately tweak them when something innocently legitimate can send them on the warpath at any given moment. Personally, I just don't want to deal with them, they are here posting way too much and should just stay on TOW and MYOB....I don't like them here because after they get involved with us and we start to like and trust one of them, they run back to their board and do a lot of bad-mouthing and mocking and I know several newbies who are very sensitive about this...with good reason. It just feels like another betrayal when you think you are making friends with someone then they go back to their own site and later find out these people are making fun of someone here. None of us here do this to any of them and I think it's mean and despicable. It's just not nice...and starting a fight only encourages this nastiness and I have come to really hate it.

<hr /></blockquote>

[ January 22, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]

I am so very, very sick and tired of the OW here. I don't want to hear about them! I want to hear how BS are coping.

This should be a safe place for BS. But I don't feel very safe here.

I guess that's why I don't come here very often.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

thanks cat

however, I am ok with it, I dont take it for much more than it is. these are not facts that describe me or my life. And people guessing they know something they dont.

I am proud of my life and how hard I have worked to make a better marriage for my self and my family. Statements such as the ones we have just read, only confirm for me, I am doing ok, and the things I think are huge, maybe they are not as bad as I think.

I am not smug ember, just damn happy about how my life has turned out. I thank god for those blessings, and will continue to thank him for our lives and family and for giving me the strength to do what I need to do.

and lynn catnip is right, i could never convince someone to do something they didnt want to do. but just maybe there will be someone who wants to have contact and wants to make it work, and will see there are some things worth trying.

Sometimes it wont work, and I have learned to respect that as well.

My husband just called to tell me about someone who committed suicide last night, he now has a wife and child at home who will grow up with out daddy. Sad ,they seemed so happy this summer when we were at their house. I think I am in shock.

Ember,
I love and respect my husband and when I made the decision to stay married and stay away from om, I made the decisions based on what I know of my self and my husband.
My husband and myself feel we have made good decisions and we are very happy and more loving than we had been in 18 years.

So as our kids are growing and slowly leaving the nest, my husband and I are closer, Infact its like we just started over, We are more romantic, we each put the other first, and he is so darn helpful makes me just happy all over, haha, These are things we did not have before.

I am happy for you that things are going well, Why is it so hard to be happy for me?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gardenbunny:
 I am so very, very sick and tired of the OW here. I don't want to hear about them! I want to hear how BS are coping.

This should be a safe place for BS. But I don't feel very safe here.

I guess that's why I don't come here very often.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>=^^= I completely agree...from now on let's try to focus completely on helping each other through our issues and being there for the Newbies...I know our safe place doesn't seem very safe, that is why the private board was created...to take more sensitive issues somewhere safe away from prying eyes...it is entirely safe.

We do seem to post more here because not everyone has access to the private board until they have graduated from "boot camp" and this is where the Newbies come first. Perhaps we should all utilize the private board more and just check in here regularly for the Newbies...I don't know...just a thought.

I sure understand your feelings and share them. It's been pretty tough around here for the past couple years since we have so many OW's from the "other board" feeling free to mouth off here whenever they want...they sure don't tolerate any of us coming there for one minute unless we are completely empathetic to them...they chase us out of there very uncerimoniously and rudely. And naturally, many Betrayeds have left here because of it because of all the OW's from the "other board" posting here at will....it is just too difficult to get through a thread without debating those tired old cows; CS and C.

C'mon over to private once in a while...over there it feels more like it used to and we tend to be more open with each other. It feels civilized.

this is pops writing this time.. reading through this thread there was so much i wanted to respond to until i read catnips post. she hit the nail right on the head. we should be here to help each other and any new members that come here.

we should offer stories of success from our own experiences and hopefully those who need help can find it somewhere in our posts.

for the record i don't place fh in the group of crazy ow married or single. i also don't place her om in the group of lunatic om like i know all wh's who do nothing but prey on lonely married women just to have a roll in the hay.

lynn,, if you are posting here just to cause trouble and rile feathers it would probably be best if you didn't post.

mo5,,,,, i want to thank you for joining our group way back when as it was your story that showed me it was possible for me to work thru this mess by doing what i think was right for ALL children involved.

back on topic. i don't think it matters if an ow/om is married or not. some people are just plain old vindictive and some people are remorseful for their mistakes.

Excellent points Pepperband.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LynnG:
Excellent points Pepperband. <hr /></blockquote>Thanks.

I agree with others who think that your "bunny boiler" and "bending over backwards" remarks were nasty and intended to hurt not enlighten.

If I had to say one thing to all of us .... it is something suggested from AA and AlAnon meetings:

Lets put

***principles over personalities***

In my opinion, this guideline would elevate the debate to a more useful and decent level.

I know that personally, when I have violated that suggestion myself, I have lost my way to effective communication.

I think the topic of this thread is interesting.... and I think that people having affairs are *behaving like idiots* .... during their affair!!!

Behaving like an idiot is not necessarily a permanent state of being. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Former idiots can reform and become enlightened individuals. Same as I view alcoholics. While my H was an active drinker or a non-drinking but un-treated alcoholic, he was behaving like an *idiot* to the level of *major idiot*.

Today, he is a dream of a man and husband.

I think where this conversation (and other conversations) gets messy is when the "past or present tense" of affairee behavior is unclear.

People have a duty to grow and change for the better. A duty to themselves and to society as a whole.

Pep

I can see the viewpoint of there being no difference between an unmarried OW and a MOW. Married or single, she is the one that along w/ the WH ripped apart the M, and stole so much from the BW.

I think there are differences though.

1. I would think the odds are greater that if a MOW gets pregnant, you would be able to wash your hands of her and OC completely. Mostly due to the fact her H may decide to be the father in every way, including financially.

2. WH quite possibly may never find out the MOW is pregnant in the first place. This could be true of a single OW too, but it just seems more likely with a MOW.

3. A BW could take some comfort in knowing her WH and OW only ripped apart one marriage instead of two if OW is single.

As for how OW behaves after the A, I don't think it's determined by whether she is a MOW or single. I believe it boils down to, (no pun intended), whether she has changed her life around or not.

Has she become a woman of character and integrity?

Has she demonstrated true remorse?

Has she shown respect to the BW?

Has she respected the decisions made by MM and BW, (finally respecting their marriage)?

Pepper I totally agree with you. I know while I was going through it I was down right stupid. Even not being in a marriage, I knew better and knew what I was doing was wrong. It took a major major "surprise" and slap in the face to wake me up and for that I thank God for everything I've gone through in the past few months. I know it's far from over in my situation and hopeing I can handle what ever comes my way as I have so far......but I know the person I am and how I raised to believe and the stupidty I feel for everything that has happened and for letting it go on as long as it just makes me sick. I basically wasted 13 months of my life for stupidty. The end result........? The rest of my life will be the end result. Don't get me wrong....I love all my kids the same and don't regret my decision to keep her, but life as I knew it will be totally different and I must accept it and go with it. As well, I have to live with the fact that I helped put another marriage and family in turmoil. Not that I don't feel xmm had his part in it, but he is taking no blame and in my nature I always take on the extra.
edited to add: As an ow I am sorry I have invaded this board and will limit my posting.

[ January 23, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: needtomoveon ]

Hmm...interesting thread.

Well, I only have my own experience to reflect on. I sit back knowing that in certain circles MY reputation has been trashed etc...All the while I have kept my mouth shut about the truth.

BW has her H, and her M, simply because I chose not to put her H in a jail cell, where he belongs. In actuality, she has me to THANK for her M. I did NOTHING to destroy it. But then, my situation is far from typical. As I said before, I catagorize myself as an "ex-OW" only because a)that is the perception I have allowed the outside world to have, for the emotional protection of my baby, and b)I do deal with all aspects of having had a MM's child while he was married, so I do find support among other mom's in the same circumstances.

I don't think single or married it makes much difference, it's all about the person. I think there are crazy OW's, crazy BW's, wonderful BW's, and yes, wonderful OW's, who DO NOT seek to do harm to a marriage after D-day. As a matter of fact, it has been my experience reading elsewhere, that MOST of the OW's with kids I know DON'T want their ex-MM, and many don't want contact.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sofaraway:

All the while I have kept my mouth shut about the truth.

BW has her H, and her M, simply because I chose not to put her H in a jail cell, where he belongs. <hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Were you raped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sofaraway:
 As a matter of fact, it has been my experience reading elsewhere, that MOST of the OW's with kids I know DON'T want their ex-MM, and many don't want contact. <hr /></blockquote>That's an interesting point. It seems many OW still insist on CS though. C is optional but CS is mandatory. I don't want to debate that issue. I just find it an interesting reflection of what is really VALUED, either as women, parents or society, I don't know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

JFTR: I don't want to debate the CS/C issue again, I just wanted to make a single point I noticed.

It breaks my heart that anyone on here finds joy in tearing into someone to try to hurt their feelings. I found this board first. I thought this board was for ANYONE working on their marriage with an OC involved, be it WS, BS. When people act like adults and respect each other this can be a great resource for both sides. I found this board to be a support to me. Then when I felt like I would step on toes if I wanted to vent about XMM and his flip flopping on what he wanted I felt I needed to vent away from this board. I also felt I needed more information on what the mothers perspective with an OC handled things. I have learned so much from both boards.

In my opinion I think there are some differences in a lot of MOW. When I say this I am thinking to the facts of how a MOW might deal with the situation once the baby is here (or through pregnancy) compared to someone who is single and dealing with it. I think MOW are not going to be as apt to doing some of the things we hear "crazy" OW as doing. Wanting the XMM to take part in the birth, calling XMM, calling/ writing XMM family etc. My thoughts were that a MOW is more apt to leaving XMM alone and letting him do what he needs to to rebuild his marriage. That is the perspective I was trying to get at. Not that there was much difference while the A was going on. Just wanted to hear others opinion. Didn't think it would start such a rant. That wasn't my intentions.

Pepperband,

Yes, I was. By a man I had been friends with, and had known for many years.

That's an interesting point. It seems many OW still insist on CS though. C is optional but CS is mandatory. I don't want to debate that issue Ktbunch:I don't want to start this into something big...but I wonder why you feel these children shouldn't get support. Should pops and FH bear this financial obligation alone? I don't think so. I think it takes two, and BOTH of the parents should be held accountable. My husband had a vasectomy because he didn't want anymore children. Here comes twins...we take most of the financial responsibility. XMM probably pays 1/3 of what he would have to pay per state guidelines. We take all other responsibility medical, any childcare, etc. Okay I don't want this to open a new can of worms, and I don't want to step on pops or FH toes. I just think they are a great example...because I don't think any of us here thinks pops should carry the full financial load even though he probably loves his daughter as if she was his.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sofaraway:
Pepperband,

Yes, I was. By a man I had been friends with, and had known for many years. <hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> that MOST of the OW's with kids I know DON'T want their ex-MM, and many don't want contact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's an interesting point. It seems many OW still insist on CS though. C is optional but CS is mandatory. <hr /></blockquote>Xmm took me to court for right to our daughter. Due to being married when she was conceived & born he lost. If I wanted $$, at the time I could have received $900 a month just for her. And trust me I could have used it. But I chose not to.

Fast forward to present day, She turned 5 today. Xmm has no leagal rights to her or her brother. I let him have visitation with both kids, let him take both kids out and do things with him. He just started giving me some money last month. His choice. The only downfall is he is still hiding alot of things from his W. She has no idea that he gives the $$.

The only downfall is he is still hiding alot of things from his W. She has no idea that he gives the $$. Crazymum, I have this problem too. I don't say anything because I presume the W would like me to stay out of it. But sometimes I read on here how the BS would like to know the truth...but do they want to hear from the OW that we know their H have filled them with a lot of S*** to save their marriage? Maybe this should be a whole different thread.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />but do they want to hear from the OW that we know their H have filled them with a lot of S*** to save their marriage? <hr /></blockquote>Hmm..4T&NS, I rather think that sentiment is not suited for a thread on this board...but could be discussed elsewhere if you wanted. I say that not to insult you in ANY WAY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but to respect the purpose of the board we are on....
(I know from reading your posts that you have been extremely respectful here, but some things just may not be appropriate)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sofaraway:
 wonderful BW's, and yes, wonderful OW's, who DO NOT seek to do harm to a marriage after D-day. <hr /></blockquote>=^^= I just wish the OW's did not seek to harm the marriage BEFORE D-Day as well. It would have saved so many broken hearts...so many broken lives. And we would all be on another site...like gardening...or taking college courses...or anything but this.

Cat =^^=

When it comes to what he does or doesn't tell his W is up to him. None of my business. FOr me I'm honest with my H about whats is going on and that's all that matters to me.

mof,I am not upset about your unique situation. What on earth gave you that idea? Have you ever thought of inviting your exMM's wife to comment here? I still think she is a saint. Also, I wonder if your exMM and his W divorce, would she still see your child? Would your H continue to tolerate your communication with with exMM, now divorced? I know this is a hypothetical question, but would appreciate your response. By the way, mof, I am happy for you and yours, and hope God blesses all of you. Also, you are always telling us how you always treat your exMM wife with respect, to her face. Then behind her back, you also tell us, the board, how awful she really is, and how you have sacrificed. Isn't this rather hypothetical?

cat, you are very snippy many times. You try to put words or thoughts in people's minds. An example of this is on some other posts' you said to me, "Ember, not all men are pigs." To clarify, I never said they were. My point of cautiousness being belittled. Sometimes, I really enjoy your words of wisdom, and sometimes I wonder where the wisdom is.

Craz, am I to understand that you want to be involved with deception again? With MM's wife not knowing?

Some of you throw daggers.

Lynn, and Pep, I apreciated your posts, and insight.

ember

why would I invite a woman to read all I have written and visit my thoughts, and what good would it do for her ? We strive to get along, I dont think she would be too keen on the fact that I share what her husband did or does on here! She has her own place she goes to, I think I will leave it at that.

This is where I come to vent at times and share and have no desire to share with her.

No if om were to divorce her, he would forbid her to see our child. How do I know this? because I know his temper and I know how he thinks, I have seen them disown people in their own family [it aint pretty] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I would be ok with it and would still let my child see her, however i know he would be very angry if I did.

His thought process is a little differnt than the average guy, he is very stubborn and demanding.

by the way I ASSUME YOU MEANT HYPOCRYTICAL..

No i am not, she knows i dont like her. I know she doesnt like me. We both understand that, but we do treat each other with respect, because we want the children and ur families to do so also, after all, My daughter loves these people doesnt mean i have to like it, doesnt mean, i cant scream AAAUUURRRGGGGG just means, i will continue to be polite and respectful, so my child feels comfortable, and she doesnt have to deal with adult crap, because it isnt her problem.

I dont really see that as a big deal.

Trust me she is not under the illusion that I like her. We have even made jokes about it, to each other.

And our husbands work together, and yes they would continue to work no matter what. Its bussiness.

Gotta run
bye

sofaraway I won't take that as an insult. I wasn't trying to make this into a disrespectful topic. But I truly did want to know what the BS wants/expects. I am not sure an OW should answer it since we are not in there shoes.So I have been struggling with that question because the W has directly said some comments to me...about what her H told her was the extent of our relationship. Plus other lies. I kind of have been taking crazymum approach that it is between them. He needs to tell her the truth, and if not she will catch him in lies down the road. I know I have played enough of a part in the destruction-so I keep my mouth shut. When either of them call me I try to keep it about the situation with the kids. So I am sorry to any BS that might not think it was appropriate to ask it here.

Originally posted by sofaraway:

I catagorize myself as an "ex-OW" only because a)that is the perception I have allowed the outside world to have, for the emotional protection of my baby, and b)I do deal with all aspects of having had a MM's child while he was married, so I do find support among other mom's in the same circumstances.

So, in actual fact, you are a rape victim, not an XOW.

How much post-traumatic counseling have you received?

Pep

a)that is the perception I have allowed the outside world to have, for the emotional protection of my baby,
It's better your child thinks YOU had an affair with a married man, rather than you were assaulted?

b)I do deal with all aspects of having had a MM's child while he was married, so I do find support among other mom's in the same circumstances.
I got news for ya'. Your circumstances are NOT THE SAME nor do they have any idea of your real circumstances!!!
How are you gonna get "support" from them?

[ January 23, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Maybe we should remember that this is a site for people looking to rebuild their marriages, a place for the BS or WS to come and vent their feelings and get advice from those who have had some experience with this horrible situation. There is a board called TOW for OW to express their feelings, and that is where they should go. This way, we can go there if we choose to torment ourselves. If not, I think the OW that post here should remember first and foremost that the BS deserves your respect on this board, just as we should respect you on your board. This thread is very depressing and does not give any useful info or advice to anyone. Does it really need to continue? Does it matter if OW was married or not? What she did was still wrong. Affairs are wrong, they are a lapse in morals and they hurt everyone involved and many who are not involved. There are some people who take responsibility for their actions and change and go on to become better people, and some who don't. My OW is one who takes very little responsibility for her actions and how it affects others, so obviously I am angry. But I am sure there are some people out there who do. Can I see things through their eyes? Of course not - I could never imagine having an affair but I'm sure there are some OW who said the same thing at one time. Isn't it time to let this die, and get back to HELPING each other?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ember:


cat, you are very snippy many times. You try to put words or thoughts in people's minds. An example of this is on some other posts' you said to me, "Ember, not all men are pigs." To clarify, I never said they were. My point of cautiousness being belittled. Sometimes, I really enjoy your words of wisdom, and sometimes I wonder where the wisdom is.

<hr /></blockquote>=^^= We can ALL get "snippy" sometimes. I know I can. It is one of the shortcomings that prevented me from getting a better husband...hahaha But, by my saying "Ember, not all men are pigs" is hardly "trying to put words or thoughts into people's minds". In fact, I am very bored with people who say "you're just putting words and thoughts into people's heads, minds, mouths, whatever" to other people who are just making a statements. You yourself have certainly made an abundant of statements which by your definition could be construed as "Putting words and thoughts into other peoples' minds". And the way you are speaking to MOF is pretty snippy, too.

So, I guess all our kettles are black.

BTW, MOF is a BW, too. If you keep that in mind, maybe you won't have so much heartburn over what she says.
Her H had more than a couple ONS and A...and I hope I am not speaking out of turn here. But, she and the XOM's W have agreed to tolerate each other for the good of the child and if it is working for them, why are we arguing about that? If C is working for someone, that should be a good thing, right? If she isn't kissing XOM's W's behind, there is probably some history we are not privy to. We don't know EVERYTHING about each other or what goes on in our lives or the subtle and blatant intricacies that complicate all our lives. Just treat her like you treat Tigger and FH...their situations are somewhat similar.

I apologize if I was snippy to you or hurt your feelings. I know I can be rather snippy but mostly just to get a point across...it ain't mind control either, Ember...just my opinion. Take what you like and leave the rest. I'm not holding a gun to your head and screaming "Believe! Believe!"

Now, let's all have a good weekend...I think there is a Newbie here that needs some attention.

[ January 23, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: catnip ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />a)that is the perception I have allowed the outside world to have, for the emotional protection of my baby,
It's better your child thinks YOU had an affair with a married man, rather than you were assaulted?

b)I do deal with all aspects of having had a MM's child while he was married, so I do find support among other mom's in the same circumstances.
I got news for ya'. Your circumstances are NOT THE SAME nor do they have any idea of your real circumstances!!!
How are you gonna get "support" from them?
<hr /></blockquote>Well, in answer to your first question, YES. It IS better. It is a proven fact that children internalize the behaviors of their parents...ie my father is bad, and I'm part of him, so I must be bad too.
I did a LOT of research on these topics, and also joined a support group for adult children conceived of rape and mothers who have had such children, and TRUST ME what those adult children deal with isn't pretty. IMO an absent father is better than a criminal monster for a father.

To answer your second question, yes, they do support me because I face the same sociatal pressures and legal hurdles, as well as the same emotional hurdles that come from having an absent, married father for your child.

Pepperband,
I don't really consider myself an ex-OW, but that is my category as it applies to situations of this board.
Yes, I have had therapy with a WONDERFUL counselor who helped me overcome the ugliest days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Originally posted by sofaraway:

Pepperband,
I don't really consider myself an ex-OW, but that is my category as it applies to situations of this board.

Were you dating a MM , and he raped you? Like date rape?

Yes, I have had therapy with a WONDERFUL counselor who helped me overcome the ugliest days.

And this counselor advised you to NOT file charges against the man who raped you? Is that correct?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Were you dating a MM , and he raped you? Like date rape?

And this counselor advised you to NOT file charges against the man who raped you? Is that correct?
<hr /></blockquote>No, I was not dating him. We were friends. He wsa in my home once, and that is when it happened. He hit on me, I said no, he did it anyway. (I have since learned he has a pattern of similar behavior)

No, my counselor did not advise me not to file charges. I had made up my mind not to before even seeing her the first time.
Filing charges in my case would have accomplished
nothing. The charges never would have seen the light of day due to his connections to the law enforcement and criminal justice systems in our area.
I had to weigh A LOT of issues. I chose the one I beleived best at the time, but there will never stop being moments I wish he was sitting in a cell.

ouch, hop, ouch, hop man my toes are sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

i took no offense to anyhing posted about me. in fact i represent most all of the negative things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

it took nearly 52 years to become the stubborn mule that i am so don't expect me to change over night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

hey catnip, what if this was all God's idea to bring us all into each others lives? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Craz, am I to understand that you want to be involved with deception again? With MM's wife not knowing?
<hr /></blockquote>Honestly I don't know what to do in this situation. Over the years its done no good running to her every time her H does something wrong. I'm sick of playing the games. Right now I'm concentrating on healing from the pain I inflicked upon my self and my family. I'm honest with my H, why should I bother with what Xmm is or isn't doing with his wife? Its their problem not mine. The only contact I have with Xmm is with the kids.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by pops:
 ouch, hop, ouch, hop man my toes are sore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

=^^= Pops...did I step on your toes, too? Or have you been out salsa dancing again?

it took nearly 52 years to become the stubborn mule that i am so don't expect me to change over night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

=^^= Don't ever change, Pops...you're wonderful exactly as you are....

hey catnip, what if this was all God's idea to bring us all into each others lives? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

=^^= It's that bothersome tolerance thing again of coming to a higher plane of understanding and compassion thing, I think. Dang annnoying, especially when you thought you had all the answers; all your biases validated and all your perceptions crystal clear. I suppose at each juncture in time, each level of awareness makes this true for that particular point in time, that particular stage. It's just when you get to the next level that you start to see all these things morph into another kind of reality.

Do I sound like I've been smoking Maui Wowie or something? Sheesh...I'd better get some sleep. All these late nights studying is making me loopy.
<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by 4tori&natesake:
 That's an interesting point. It seems many OW still insist on CS though. C is optional but CS is mandatory. I don't want to debate that issue Ktbunch:...but I wonder why you feel these children shouldn't get support. I think it takes two, and BOTH of the parents should be held accountable. My husband had a vasectomy because he didn't want anymore children. Here comes twins...we take most of the financial responsibility. XMM probably pays 1/3 of what he would have to pay per state guidelines. We take all other responsibility medical, any childcare, etc. <hr /></blockquote>1)You missed my point completely. It wasn't about who "should" DO anything. And I did NOT say they should NOT pay CS. My point is: C being OPTIONAL and CS being MANDATORY... as if CS is MORE valuable than C.

2) what your XMM pays is what you have allowed him. You could have taken him to court and he would have NO CHOICE but to pay. Are you trying to imply that you do him a "favor"?

3)pops did state in another thread that since he does love OC as his own, if he could do it over, he MAY have made a different choice about CS, with regards to OM now being involved in OC life, having to "share" OC.

I know every one tries to do what is best for thier families with the tools and knowledge they have @ the time decisions are made. For some it's NC, for some it's no CS.

And I think everyone should be able to "vent" and be open here. There seems no reason to get your underoos all in a bunch if it doesn't apply to you. Why does everything need to be taken so personally? IF you're not a psycho OW then ignore the reference, it OBVIOUSLY doesn't apply to you. I'm not a bitter (sometimes angry but not bitter) BS so I never take offense to anything that resembles a remark like that. Actually I'm not very easily offended by much of anything in my life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have enough eggshells in my own life to avoid walking on. I'm tired of keeping track of them here too, a board that is supposed to be supportive of MARRIAGES in different states of disarray, mostly due to A that resulted in OC. shouldn't THAT be the priority?

catnip,,,,, don't worry no one has stepped on my toes. but i wish i were out dancing. i would look forward to seeing this group at some form of a reunion and maybe getting the opportunity to meet and dance with some of the marvelous people here. i would however get a little ticked if say K stepped on my toes during a spin around the floor.

it has just been a very long and busy week and i felt like trying to lighten my thoughts a little.

------------------------------
=^^= It's that bothersome tolerance thing again of coming to a higher plane of understanding and compassion thing, I think. Dang annnoying, especially when you thought you had all the answers; all your biases validated and all your perceptions crystal clear. I suppose at each juncture in time, each level of awareness makes this true for that particular point in time, that particular stage. It's just when you get to the next level that you start to see all these things morph into another kind of reality.
------------------------------
HUH? this is way to heavy for me to figure out the way my mind is working tonight.

maui wowie? i haven't heard that for at least _ _ years. i remeber having a talk with my younger brother way back before they had dirt floors. the debate was over the best stuff around. he was siding with maui wowie and i was big on panama red. gosh those were the days.

kt,,,,, on the serious note. my comment was about if certain situations in my life were different (age, health, number and ages of our kids, etc) then yes i may have made different choices. but that goes both ways. had they been different in other ways like some of the stories i've read here, my marriage may have ended. and we all know what they say about if's and but's being candy and nuts.

even with om in our life this was still the right thing for me. and for the record our om has been very respectful of me and our family for the most part.

LYNN...I RESPECT YOU A GREAT DEAL .SAY WHAT YOU MEAN, MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. YOU HAVE THE GUTS OF A MILLION. IT'S TO BAD THERE ARE NOT MANY LIKE YOU. KEEP YOUR HEAD UP. YOU SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU FEEL. I WISH MORE WOULD DO THE SAME.

IMO an absent father is better than a criminal monster for a father.
Hmmm? Interesting. It's better to believe you have two bad parents srather than one bad parent? He thinks, "BOTH of my parents are bad people. Mom because hshe slept with a married man and Dad, because he's not around AND he was married at the time."
It's better to lie to him about everything rather than teach him how to deal with issues?

To answer your second question, yes, they do support me because I face the same sociatal pressures and legal hurdles, as well as the same emotional hurdles that come from having an absent, married father for your child.
Yes, you do get "support" for certain issues, (raising a child alone) but it's all based on false pretenses on your part. They can't support you properly unless they know what they are supporting!
I'm not saying you should continue to be a "victim" of rape but the fact is you are lying to everyone about it and it seems (from your posts) as if even you are starting to believe it was an affair.

What's gonna happen when your kid decides to visit "Dad" later on in life and finds out the truth?

[ January 26, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Joshmom, momof5, fullhouse and others:

Your input is much appreciated. I'm not afraid to say it. I want to know more than what posters like lynng have to bark about.

Sometimes you have to know when to ignore certain posters. It's a pity you are only attacked, but that's not within your control or worth your time.

I don't feel like I was attacked. I just felt that it wasn't productive to anyone for me to post any further on this. I have never been anything but respectful to 99.99% of the people here, and will continue to do so regardless of what is thrown at me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />