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I am just wondering what exactly this Pregnancy/Child board is for? As a MARRIAGE BUILDING site, my first thought would be it is for BW's of a WH who has a child OR a WW of a BH who has a child!

When I first came to marriage builders, I only posted on GQII, I felt sorry for those on PG/Child board! I NEVER wanted to be in their shoes! THAT has got to hurt to be in their shoes! Well, lo and behold...here I am <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm in their shoes!

I started briefly posting on PG/Child, but soon stopped as I saw that MANY OW post on here! At first it seemed Many of them came only to cause problems for the BW.

I have absolutely NO problem with an OW posting as long as they KNOW what they did was wrong and they are remorseful for it!

You have no idea what it is like to be a BS with an OC in your once happy life! Everything is turned upside down and the last thing we need is for some OW to start posting ludicrous remarks towards us...We need a place to post and to share our feelings without having to worry about OW's posting back to us and hurting us even more!

The Private board has NO traffic...GQII, I love i there, but they dont know EXACTLY what we are going thru!

anyway, i am not sure of the reason for my post here except an explantation as to what this board is for...cuz it certaintly does not serve it's purpose for MARRIAGE BUILDING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

[ February 28, 2005, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: RollerCoasterPro ]

I think your wrong! I think every one can learn from each other. Would you deny your spouse who wanted to improve his marriage to post on this board? As long as every one is respectful of each other, I dont see why they can not communicate. I dont know many of the women who post here, So I dont know how many of them are married or not married. I am married and working on my marriage.

I'm sorry that you feel that this board does not serve it's purpose of MB.

I think it does. MOST (but certainly not all) recommend Harleys MB principles to newbies first, then some legal advice & then a shoulder to cry on/ear to hear.

Then when choices need to be made regarding C or NC w/ OC, most recommend making this decision via POJA based on what is best for your family & marriage.

WHY do you think it is NOT for marriage building?

Kandi, I think you are correct to voice your concerns.

No other forum on MB has a history of OPs continually posting their opinions UNrelated to marriage building ... and trying to influence husbands and wives trying to heal their marriages using NO principles or concepts ... only expressing opinions formed by their experience as an outsider interloper in someone else's marriage.

It is outrageous, really.

If any of these OP tried posting this stuff on the other MB forums like GQII, their misuse of marriage builders forums to forward the OP position would not be welcome.

Sorry Kandi ... I am sad to say, you are correct.

Pep

[ February 28, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]

"I think your wrong! I think every one can learn from each other. Would you deny your spouse who wanted to improve his marriage to post on this board?"

If I want to learn about the other sides opinion I go to their forum. I would never, ever dream of posting on their site, simply because it's theirs. They should have a protected place just as we should. If they want to learn from us they can always lurk on "our" site. I have no need to banter back and forth with them.

Asking whether or not I would deny my spouse the opportunity to post here doesn't apply. Of course I wouldn't deny him. You can't possibly make a spouse's ability to post here equivalent to an ow posting here. After all, this IS a marriage building site.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Would you deny your spouse who wanted to improve his marriage to post on this board?<hr /></blockquote>I think this is Kandi's point. If this forum is used properly, it is used to improve one's marriage or marriages in general.... using the concepts as described by Harley. If this forum is used improperly, it is to give voice to OP with no interest in MB concepts, no interest in building marriages.... I do believe that is Kandi's point.

Pep

Thank you Pep and cryn...Yes, that is my point exactly...maybe I wasnt' clear!

How can one even begin to compare a MARRIED spouse to an OW posting on this forum? And why would I want to learn from the OW? oh...can you please tell me why you slept with my husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I am speaking particularly of OW who are allowed to come to this board and rant and rave about their OC and about the BW and NO ONE does anything about it! I think it is completely disprespectful of the BS AND the WS who have an OC involved! This is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site...maybe you are missing my point here KT...so, if it is a MB site, how can we justify an OW coming here to rebuild their marriage since they aren't married to the MM to begin with, unless of course she is a WS, in which case that would make her an OW/WS...

Like I said before and I quote

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I have absolutely NO problem with an OW posting as long as they KNOW what they did was wrong and they are remorseful for it!
<hr /></blockquote>And some of them DO have remorse seem like they know what they did was wrong!

I just dont understand...there is a BOARD for OW's...so why cant we, the BS, have our OWN boards for OC!

I am not making myself clear I dont think? never mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok, i think I do get it now.

So are you asking WHY OW are allowed to post here?

Only answer would be because it is a public forum.

I think the private board is slow because most use sxf now or they just aren't here anymore. kwim?

I think there are a few threads right now that kinda address the same thing.

What would you like to see happen?

xoxoxo
kt

Sorry for the delay in my response. I saw the post earlier but just now got a chance to sit down and answer.

The short answer is-- Marriage Builders Forums, (all of them), are for learning the Marriage Builders concepts and how to apply them,,,AND supporting those that are attempting to do so.

A little history first---

When the Discussion Forums began there was only one forum--General Questions. A small group of posters with all the different situations and aspects in one place. As the membership grew, there were many requests for separate forums. Those struggling not only with infidelity but also with the added complications involving an OC wanted their own forum. They dealt with many issues the other posters were spared.

The Pregnancy/Child Forum was created. Not "only" for BW's dealing with an OC but also for FWW's, BH's, and FWH's. We've also had many xOP members, seeking the concepts and skills to improve their future relationships.

Respectful, constructive, MB based advice and support is expected and REQUIRED of ALL members, regardless of their "label." Snide, cutting, nasty, hurtful remarks are NOT acceptable from ANYONE. Unremorseful flaunting of a continuing affair is NOT acceptable or permitted by ANY member.

And we do have the Private P/C forum for those desiring alittle more secure environment.

Do we have Marriage Building going on at the P/C forum? I see it everyday, however it is not identified as Dr Harley's "concepts." When a spouse is encouraged to tell the truth to their H or W, the Radical Honesty concepts are not linked or mentioned. When the poster is troubled about C or NC I see the POJA concept being applied. Same thing with visitation. Marriage Building is happening. Plan A,,Plan B. I'm seeing them applied. It is just not being identified as Dr Harley's principles or concepts.

If you have any suggestions or questions about Marriage Builders, the forums, my post or anything else, ALWAYS feel free to email me.

Thanks Justuss and Kt...yes, I do post over at sxf sometimes...I guess I am just bummed cuz I feel that this place isn't very safe...being selfish I guess!

I just dont see any BS (WW, WH, BW or BH) having anything in common with and OW! And when the posts get mixed it really is very unsettling...maybe others view OP's posts as a learning experience, but I dont!

some, and maybe MOST of them NOW do seem a BIT remorseful, but sometimes they can really put the dagger in and it is very disturbing to watch a BS of any sort being hurt that way...

**SIGH**...like I said...not sure what the point of this post was...just feeling a bit down and sorry for all the BS's in this situation!

sorry if I upset anyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'll bite!!!

I wonder why an ow can actully be allowed to whine about being called and STOW, as if it was the most horrible thing that could happen. How does the feelings of an ow, worried about being "lumped" with other ow help build a marriage?
I feel it is a classic example of the me me me attitude of ow's. STOW to be exact.

I guess I would agree. I have always been the one on the OW board to say it is an OW board and sometimes the OW just can't handle the BW in the room. It really depends on where you are in the healing process. It works both ways...this is a board for the marriage and I can perfectly understand why it would bother you to have an OW posting.

Salt in an open wound....once the wound is better healed, it wont sting so much. I'm sorry if anything I posted contributed to your pain.

I want to apologize too if my posting has caused any of the BW's here to be upset. I actually feel like crap for what I did to my H. Just this morning on the way into work I was having a flashback of my A and it got me thinking about what a fool I acted like. It makes me sick at myself to be honest. I read here to remind me what pain A's cause, and to keep me on the right path. I have a lot of sympathy for the situations many of you are in due to such selfishness as what I was involved in in my A.

Finding.....I think it is more the ow who are NOT here rebuilding their marriages, just offering "their side" as if it matters. Trying to prove how they have "grown"...good for them. But what difference does it make to the couple?

What I see in you is a woman, deeply sorry for her mistake, totally devoted to her husband and new family and way past this!!! Some have asked if a betrayed came here, how would they be treated...well you are one and look at what a success you are!!!! I think you are a great role model for the newbies here, to read and hear how sorry you truly are, with a feeling of sincere hope. You are living and loving in a rebuilt marriage....totally an inspiration to all! Congrats.

As for the ow here, not married, totally consumed with what is best for them and the oc... My point has always been who cares? Many will come here and whine about what is fair for the oc, etc. They have taken swipes at BW and I wonder at what point their input helps the marriage to rebuild?

Many have been angry at me for explaining how no contact is the best, and why I feel that way. They think it is wrong/bad for the oc. BUT it is not my place to worry/care about oc. I am telling these women to do what is best for them, their family and their marriages....that the OW DOES NOT MATTER. And she doesn't. This gets the sacrastic...."real nice Lynn..." type response from an ow. But I will continue to say it. What the ow thinks/feels/needs/wants means nothing to the married couple. PERIOD. If it is HER marriage she is trying to save, then she is not the ow in that marraige, but the wife.

I don't have a problem with them explaining certain things, but their me me me me attitudes are so obvious. Even when they are asked NOT to respond, they jump right in. They are passive aggressive and heartless.

My concern is for the newbies having to read and listen to these women blather on. Many (KT, Summer, etc.) are way past the early emotions and are better able to read an ow post. But what about the newbies? I will always try to protect them and to help make them strong. THEY are the ones who need help and support from those of us who have walked the path they are getting on. I don't want to see any of these women led astray by putting the needs of ow/oc above their own.

Twight posted:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I have always been the one on the OW board to say it is an OW board and sometimes the OW just can't handle the BW in the room. It really depends on where you are in the healing process. It works both ways...this is a board for the marriage and I can perfectly understand why it would bother you to have an OW posting.
<hr /></blockquote>Just to reemphasize..This is not exclusively a "BW's" board. This is a board for members involved in rebuilding and recovering their marriages and for those interested in acquiring the knowledge and skills for a successful future marital relationship. FWS's, FOP's are welcome on all boards on MB including P/C with the key word being FORMER!!

Those sensitive to the sometimes heated and/or emotionally disturbing topics discussed can apply for the Private Forum.

I believe open communication allows us to grow and to explore our deepest feelings and motives. Hurtful comments are not exclusive to our xOP members. Debate the theories, ideas, concepts WITHOUT attacking the actual poster. If a post deteriorates to the point where it is a slamfest and helping no one, please "alert" me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> How can one even begin to compare a MARRIED spouse to an OW posting on this forum? And why would I want to learn from the OW? oh...can you please tell me why you slept with my husband

I am speaking particularly of OW who are allowed to come to this board and rant and rave about their OC and about the BW and NO ONE does anything about it! I think it is completely disprespectful of the BS AND the WS who have an OC involved! This is a MARRIAGE BUILDING site... <hr /></blockquote>RCP - I totally agree with u & for this reason I stopped posting here as much as I used to - it just didn't feel safe anymore.

A FOW who has an OC & his currently working on her M I have no problem with, but I could never understand y a OW w/ an OC for a MM would post here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Personally I have no need for their insight as to why they slept with a MM, nor do I care to hear their gripes about what is best for OC. What would have been best for OC is that their mother planned a better future for them instead of believing the lies of a MM who is lying to his wife to be with her. I do understand that maybe not ALL OW's plan to try & destroy a M by getting pg. but it seems some of the ones who post here do. Don't get me wrong, the H shares equal blame for not honoring his marital vows by being unfaithful - it is not all the OW's fault.

I think some maybe come here to try & understand why a BW would stay with their H, - why for reasons u would never understand unless u lived it, u invested years with this man, had children with this man, built a life with this man, & exchanged vows before God to love & cherish this man for better or for worse.

U (OW) only had a small stolen portion of his time, u claim to know him but u know what he wants u to know, which is usually lies about his wife, his life & his M & how wonderful it is to be with u the OW.

I have never gone to the TOW site - for what? To add to my pain - to try to understand why another woman would set out to try & take something that doesn't belong to them. To hurt & possibly destroy a M, a family??? It is just another form of evil plain & simple. Don't need to read their stories to figure that out, now why they come here if they are not M and working on rebuilding their M is beyond me, the only reason I can see is to bring more hurt & pain to one of the most devastating events a wife can find herself in.

JMO

Here here! NMD4B

I have read that dealing w/a spouses infidelity is one of the most painful, debilitating things a person could ever go through in life, even W/O an OC! And I'm here to tell you, I believe it! I've been a survivor my whole life and almost lost my youngest son and nothing has kicked me on my *** and made me question myself and life in general so much as this has.

I don't think most OW (or BS for that matter) can ever realize the magnitude of emotions that this devistating event can bring to a person. I say this to give the OW a heads up about posting here and KUDOS to all you women who are surviving and some who, with the passing of time and lots of emtional work, are striving. You Go Girls!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LynnG:

Many have been angry at me for explaining how no contact is the best, and why I feel that way. They think it is wrong/bad for the oc. BUT it is not my place to worry/care about oc. I am telling these women to do what is best for them, their family and their marriages....that the OW DOES NOT MATTER. And she doesn't. This gets the sacrastic...."real nice Lynn..." type response from an ow. But I will continue to say it. What the ow thinks/feels/needs/wants means nothing to the married couple. PERIOD. If it is HER marriage she is trying to save, then she is not the ow in that marraige, but the wife.

<hr /></blockquote>But Lynne....You are not exactly supportive of those who DO have contact either. Myself being a great example. Shoot....There are people on this site who don't even BELIEVE I am a BS.

I'm a doormat....I'm weak......blah blah blah
ad nauseum...

Just because I choose to have contact and TRY to have some kind of civil contact with OW. Why do I do it? Because I want that child to know her real father. The other part of her life which is MY family. My OW hasn't done or said all the right things.....but HE**...I haven't either!!

Things get polarized on this board. Such is the nature of humans. Nothing is black and white. But many many shades of gray.

ent

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by entwifejmr:
But Lynne....You are not exactly supportive of those who DO have contact either.<hr /></blockquote>Whatever is in the best interest of that particular marriage .... Lynne will and does support.

BECAUSE MARRIAGE IS THE TOPIC ... as you know.

Hmmmm......

Where has Lynne been supportive of contact? She's the first to come out and practically shout, "NO CONTACT!!! PAY CHILD SUPPORT!! TOO BAD FOR OC!!"

I must have missed her being supportive of contact. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am sure you will advise.

thanks,
ent

BECAUSE MARRIAGE IS THE TOPIC

ent...maybe you DID miss it! Lynng SUPPORTS THE MARRIAGE.

She gives ehr personal story & personal opinions on why she THINKS NC is best AND THEN she tells newbies to think about what THEY want & what will be best for THIER MARRIAGE.

NOT best for OC, not best for OW, not best for H, BEST FOR THE MARRIAGE.

When C is chosen then she advises to do it all legal, how H has rights, can get joint custody, 50/50 time share ect.

She encourages nebies to take action not JUNK, to protect themselves & their families to POJA & not let H try to force his way & also reminds them that they cannot force their way---it must be an agreement.

xoxox
kt

ent....it's not your pro-contact stance that offends people here, there are plenty of other wives who have contact and present that side of the issue without alienating people...it's the sarcasm and disrespect you use when you talk to folks. If you're mistaken for an OW...it's because you appear discompassionate and combative...as some OWs can be to wives.

Don't think so....

I y'am what I y'am....in the words of the wise Popeye!!

Not a wallflower...don't yes sir people....I am PASSIONATE!!!!

HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! I am passionate in MY beliefs. If my beliefs are disconcerting...well..then they are. For the most part I am not being mean OR sarcastic.

ent

entwifejr,

Perhaps, it's that there is a marked passion about opinions that differ from yours about no contact. You've pulled out scripture and everything else to prop up your position, when really, what you have is a great experience that worked for you. But this is not a one-size-fits-all solution and you could go a long way in respecting that.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
 entwifejr,

You've pulled out scripture and everything else to prop up your position, when really, what you have is a great experience that worked for you. <hr /></blockquote>See....that is what I mean. Prop? Maybe I am reading this wrong, and I have been known to do that. But why should I have to explain myself and be "attacked" for MY opinions. I am PRO marriage. I wouldn't be in my marriage for so long if I didn't believe in it.

ent

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by entwifejmr:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
 entwifejr,

You've pulled out scripture and everything else to prop up your position, when really, what you have is a great experience that worked for you. <hr /></blockquote>See....that is what I mean. Prop? Maybe I am reading this wrong, and I have been known to do that. But why should I have to explain myself and be "attacked" for MY opinions. I am PRO marriage. I wouldn't be in my marriage for so long if I didn't believe in it.

ent <hr /></blockquote>Are you being attacked? Or are you attacking?
Are you pro-marriage? Does your position on how to "be married" diminish Lynn's pro-marriage?

Can we agree that there are different ways to be happily married and recovered from a situation and that your way worked well for you, congratulations are in order, but may not work best for other people here?

And if so, can you stop attacking others for their offerings of solutions that should be considered equal in merit to yours?

Oh Ent, get a clue. I have NEVER told anyone, NOT to have contact. I state why I think it is not a good idea. And state why.

Actually, you are a good example of why NOT to have contact. I have never quite figured out if you are trying to persuade us how great it is,or yourself. Cause you have not one little bit of care or concern for any BW. The only time you come here is to either whine about the plight of the oc or to defend an OW. If this is what contact creates, I am sure we can all decipher how damaging and twisted it is for you. Look at how much you hate wives here? How little regard you have for people who make the choice of no contact. Always looking out for the ow/oc and never once considering what the bw/bc want or need.

You wonder why people distrust you? HMMMMMM

[ March 02, 2005, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: entwifejmr ]

[ March 02, 2005, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: entwifejmr ]

Here we go again.....

"If this is what contact creates, I am sure we can all decipher how damaging and twisted it is for you. Look at how much you hate wives here?"

Geez Lynne...can't you come up with a NEW twist? This one is sooooo old!!

Try again,
ent

sorry....double post

[ March 02, 2005, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: entwifejmr ]

Uh, back to RCP's initial point: I agree that some (SOME) of the OW who visit here do not belong and have not reason to be here. They hurt, rather than help in many cases.

But they'll keep coming back....

RCP, what is sxf? Email me.

~ Snow

[ March 04, 2005, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Snowbelle ]