Marriage Builders®
Posted By: Neak A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 11/30/05 04:01 AM
I am copying myself from the feminine hygiene products list, because I think this topic is so important, especially for all the BS's out there who don't feel like what they're doing is having any effect on their WS.


OT, if there is such a thing here, I was remembering earlier something my FWH told me a week or two ago. He said that one of the things he loves about me is that even if someone is unkind (to my face), that I don't at all say anything back in retaliation.

He said he thought it made people feel even worse that way, than if I got angry back so they could feel justified.

He sounded as if he was talking from experience. So chin up, any of you with a WS, it is worthwhile to be consistently calm to them even if they don't deserve it. It will be one of the few things they notice, and they will feel BAAAAAAD.

His A began last December and went on through the end of June. We have been in recovery for 5 months, and that was the first I knew he had even noticed, never mind been affected, by my refusal to respond in kind to his spewings of venom.

It made me so glad to know the effort had not been wasted.
Hey Neak,

I just found this post and needed to hear it. I'm feeling a little low in the hope department today and very lonely. I always wondered what your sitch was - your thread is too long to figure it out!! Did your husband move out during that time?

P.S. I do enjoy the tales of the Dervish!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:16 AM
Wow, it was a surprise to see this pop up right now.

I'm glad you never went looking for my story on the list of FH products - you would only have found bits and pieces, mostly from recovery.

I'll add more to this shortly.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:19 AM
Oh, and there is probably another Dervish story coming soon. Mom & Neaksis took all the kids, mine included, to a neato Christmas pageant thingy-dingy about an hour-and-a-half from here, and from what I understand, the Dervish had some experiences with the Roman soldiers that were worth repeating.

For the sake of my familial critics, it was the experiences that were worth repeating, not the Roman soldiers, but it sounded even worse the other way. (I.e. "...had some experiences that were worth repeating with the Roman soldiers.")

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:33 AM
We are just about a year from the start of the A. December of last year found AJ having 'friendly lunches' with his soon-to-be-boss. She cried on his shoulder about her BF breakup about 9 mo (?) before, and I'm sure it seemed natural for him to respond with wife stories.

We actually had a great talk about this just this morning. He does not remember the point where he first became aware that this was no longer just a friendship. Right after the first of the year, he started at his new job. The first couple of days he asked me to bring him lunch, and the Dervish (then 3) and I got to spend some quality time with him, and in the process met the OW.

By week #2, he bit my head off when I offered to bring him lunch. It never crossed my mind that he was anything but tired and cranky. He was still affectionate, and we still told each other ILY many times each day, as we had always done.

I don't remember the exact date, due to the extreme shock of it, but by around the 19th he turned to me in bed one night and said he was thinking of leaving. Come to find out he had already filled out a rental application for a house down the street.

It was like somebody flipped a switch that night. He was so cold, wouldn't touch me, wouldn't say ILY, and suddenly for the first time in our marriage I was Neak, not Sweetheart. He was planning to leave in just a couple of days, so even with my brain exploded to pieces I saw an opportunity to change his mind.

Mostly he was very cold, but I remained warm and loving. On those occasions where his anger erupted, I behaved with humility. I made every effort to keep our home as inviting as possible, and to give him every indication of love that I could. During every spare moment I prayed and begged for guidance, because I had no idea what to do. By listening to the Still Small Voice, I put on a good Plan A before ever hearing of one. It was very counter-intuitive, just as for everyone, but somehow I knew it was our best chance.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:44 AM
D-day was February 12. He told me I probably wouldn't even like him anymore, but he had been seeing someone else and couldn't stand to deceive me any more. He fell asleep that night with his back to me, but pressed as close to me as he could get. That was how he slept pretty much from then on.

I was so happy I stayed awake late into the night. IT WASN'T MY FAULT! There was an actual reason why he had been the way he had been. I was sure that now, having told me, it would just be a matter of a few days until he would have broken up with her, declared his love for me, and we would live happily ever after.

Boy, was I in for a surprise.

That next week he borrowed the first of many loans from her, as he needed to make payroll for the corporation. Thus began the song and dance of, "As soon as the money is paid back, I'll break it off with her."

I hated that, and was very fearful of trouble, but for lack of any brighter ideas continued to be loving and calm. Each night I would check the text messages on his phone after he went to sleep, and their platonic nature reassured me a little. That is, until the last week of February when "Hi how r u" changed to "I wish u were here 2 lick the water droplets off my #ipple$ in the shower". And other similarly cheesy stuff.

Then came the message telling him she would love to go on the business weekend with him, and should she get a dog-sitter? I marched into the bedroom and woke him up to confront him about it. When asked point-blank, he said that yes, he was taking her. Then he rolled over and fell fast asleep.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:59 AM
I prayed long into the night that night. I interceded before the throne more earnestly than every before. Always before I had gotten a very nice "keep your mouth shut", but this time the answer was "let him have it, just nicely".

So the next morning I softly lit into him. I pointed out the damage his actions were causing our family. I said it was hurting me, it was hurting her, and it was hurting our children. Very emphatically I told him that his duty to our children was to break up with her that very day.

He became enraged and swore at me, telling me to leave him alone, that he would do it for the children but not for me, and I'd better not try to touch him.

I suppose I should mention that right from day 1 I had stepped up my efforts in the bedroom, also, practically clubbing him and dragging him to bed. Once I found out there was someone else I doubled and redoubled my efforts, trying to keep him too busy to get in that kind of trouble.

He stormed out of the house, still angry, and not coming back till Sunday night or Monday morning. His first stop was with another friend in Sacramento before heading over the hill to Carson City. I was quite shocked when he called me that afternoon and chatted as if nothing had happened. He made sure to tell me that he was leaving town too late to pick up the OW, and would be alone.

I was even more shocked when he called that evening to see if my mom could drive partway and meet him, so I could spend the rest of the weekend with him. Mom did, bless her heart, and we had a wonderful time.

It was the first weekend in March, and the first time he had voluntarily shown me any affection since January. To my amazement, he began to again hold my hand, hug and kiss me, and say ILY. On the way back we talked, and I told him I had been reading his text messages. He took it better than I thought, saying only that he hadn't been perfect either. I promised never to touch his phone again, knowing that I could access the messages 24/7 on the cellular website.

Well, almost home to pick up the kids and I found out that the 'not perfect' he meant was that he had just had sex with her for the first time within the previous week. That was a huge shock, but since he was going to break up with her soon I saw it as only a bump in the road.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 05:24 AM
When we got married, I was a virgin and relatively stupid about the reality of STD's and stuff. I knew what they were and could have told you the symptoms, but it never occurred to me that I might have been exposed to something. There is a huge variance of opinions here about SF during an A, and I really don't want to stir up any controversy. By the time it penetrated my thick skull, there was so much sex under the bridge that I knew if I were going to get anything, I would have gotten it already. So I continued SF, just making sure only condoms were on hand. THIS IS NOT A RECOMMENDATION, JUST A FACTUAL STATEMENT OF WHAT OCCURRED!

The next weekend we went back to Carson City with the kids, and again had a lovely time. He agreed to break up with her when we got home, saying he would meet with her that night, having at least enough respect for her to do it in person.

On the way home he became very agitated about the weepy messages she kept leaving for him, and he blamed me that she was upset and crying. I bit my tongue, just happy that he was finally going to get rid of her. I was still so naive, and very very ignorant.

He was gone till late, maybe 1:30 am, while I paced the floor and prayed. When he finally walked in, he put his arms around me and held me tight. "I couldn't do it." He went on to explain that it was too hurtful for her, and there was the money to consider, and he would just gradually ease her away over time, and in the meantime they would just be friends.

I was only naive, not straight-up stupid, and this caused me a whole lot of worry, but I did not have my red Cape of Power yet, and didn't see what else I could do but accept it.

I continued to monitor the TM's many times a day, and it did stay friendly for a while, but then the sexual stuff started up again. I was at my wit's end. I didn't want to betray my source, because I would lose it. This being in my pre-MB days, I was under the mistaken impression that there had to be some great earth-shaking event before I could confront again. Something like catching them in bed, or at least making out.

By this time Neaksis was in on things, and Mom guessed within a day or so after that. I don't know how I had made it so long without their help.

Anyway, AJ had an assignment in the Sacramento area, and booked a motel in the area, a much nicer one than we would normally use. (I am a poor, broke author - almost as pitiful as a poor, broke musician. Oh wait, I am a musician, too.) So I suspected from the beginning that she had something to do with it.

The kids and I went and stayed the second night he was there, and the next morning he kept calling every few minutes to see if we had left yet. When I got home I found out that she was waiting for us to leave so she could have her turn in the room. He invited her to join him in a most explicit way.

So guess who was there to greet him when he got off work. I came in from the back parking lot after I figured he should have gotten there. I looked super hot, in a short clingy red dress, and used my key to enter the room. He wasn't there quite yet, but she was lounging on the bed watching TV and dressed most unseductively. She was also talking on her cell phone.

I wiggled my fingers at her in my best movie-star wave. "Oh, hi. If that's AJ, tell him I was here."

Shaking, I exited the room and started to walk away, not having enough savois-faire remaining to pull up a chair and wait with her. That was when I realized my bladder was going to burst at any moment, and I had well over an hour to drive. Suddenly, I wasn't sure I could make it to the car, never mind the nearest service station.

So I went back. "Hi again, you're just going to have to excuse me long enough to let me use the restroom."

I dropped the room key in the tub with her bubble bath collection, a move I was soon to regret. When I walked out of the bathroom AJ was just walking in the door, looking harrassed for some reason.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 05:50 AM
He chewed me out in front of her, saying that the business item I had forgotten that morning was why he had to have her come down. That's ok, by then I was used to everything being my fault. I was cool, collected and smiling, nonchalantly overlooking the skankelephant in the middle of the room. "Oh, I'm sorry, Dear; I came back to take care of that for you. I wanted to spend a little time with you."

And what fortunate timing, he had just gotten some business papers for us to sign, and the company had mistakenly put my maiden name on them. He flipped! I was to find out later that she had tried to prime his pump, showing this as evidence that I was planning to leave him. Through it all I was as reasonable as could be, gently explaining the truth and exuding a flowery smell into the tainted air.

Finally he walked me out to the car. None of it had gone the way I planned. Once again, there was no evidence - at least none I could admit to - that things were progressing, nothing to confront, (remember, pre-MB and ignorant), I just really thought that if they really were friends, that it was my problem for being bothered by it. Not open-minded enough, or something.

He had not lied to me up to that point. So when he held my face in his hands and kissed me, telling me how much he loved me, and that they were just friends, and she wouldn't be spending the night, I r-e-a-l-l-y wanted to believe him, wishing/hoping that maybe there was another explanation for the message I had intercepted. As long as I gritted my teeth and grimaced, I could believe him. Oh, I wanted to believe him.

He still says she did not spend the night that night. Naturally my trust is still damaged, but he has been unhesitatingly truthful many times when it reflected very badly on him, so for a comparatively minor detail like that I feel fairly safe taking his word for it.

HOWEVER, she made every effort to have it appear as if she stayed.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:04 AM
She must have enjoyed picking up my skimpy little well-used undies from the far side of the bed, where I left them for AJ to find. She took my pajamas from under the pillow and stuck them in his dirty clothes bag, under his disgusting socks. She took HIS pajamas from under his pillow and folded them neatly into his suitcase. She left a card for him.

That way when I came back the next day I was sure to know. Well, two can play that game, and my card made her card blush.

Fast forward to Friday night of that week, when I knew, just knew she would be there, but had no babysitter. After spending a couple of hours on the phone with my MIL, filling her ears with tears, she told me, "You just go to him. Even if he says to stay away, you go to him. He needs you."

So when Neaksis was able to babysit after all, I was out the door in 30 seconds or less. It was very late when I got there, and from the ground it looked like the light was on in his room. (I eventually realized I was looking at the wrong window.) He wasn't answering the phone, or the door.

Persistent knocking over time finally worked. He opened the door and let me in. It was all dark in his room. There was just enough light to see that his face was genuinely puffy, his eyes squinty, and I'm sure he was actually asleep at that time.

I held out my arms. "You can blame your mom for this," I said, smiling, "She said I should come because you needed me."

He pushed me away. "I don't need you!" He wasn't quite yelling, but talking pretty loud. He said she was there passed out drunk, and why couldn't we all just leave him alone? Sure enough, there was a blanket-wrapped lump on the floor. Though I am sure she did not start out there, she is not such a shrinking violet as to submit quietly to a scheme like that, so she probably was over-intoxicated. I have gotten to know her well enough *shudder* to accurately predict that, had she had her faculties, nothing at all would have dissuaded her from parading around triumphantly, hoping that would be the final blow that made him hers. Gag.

I am not normally speechless. Had my predicted scenario occurred, I would have had plenty to say. With my mind completely blank, I made as graceful a retreat as possible. I heard him call my name as I rounded the corner of the hallway, but did not turn around.
Yikes, Neak, I had never pictured it being so sleazy.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:31 AM
My phone battery died just as I left the parking lot, so I couldn't even vent. I got home and just had time to start telling Neaksis what had happened, when in stomps AJ, yelling and saying he's definitely leaving this time. First he was going to pack then and there. Then he was going to pack in the morning. And it was, let's say it together, boys and girls, ALL MY FAULT!

I really believed he would leave that time. (Unlike all the other times. ) In fact, by this time I was half hoping he would, just because I was getting so worn down. Like pretty much everyone else, I had melted down to skin and bones, and was sick a lot. For a while Neaksis cooked for me once or twice a day, then sat there and nagged me to eat. Had she not intervened I probably would have been hospitalized before too long, and I do not exaggerate. For a while I was so weak I could hardly walk around, and one good virus would have taken me down hard.

(Thank you, Neaksis.)

But he didn't leave. The TM's got worse and worse, but I couldn't find anything else to confront him with. Then, when I thought life couldn't be any more awful, he hired her to work for the corporation.

Now I was signing her paychecks, calculating her hours, filing her reports, and standing by while my husband talked to her on Yahoo Messenger with me there in the room. Naturally he would close the window down when I walked over, but I could always tell by how he acted. Several times he even talked to her on the phone while I was around, just trying not to give away that it was her. I always knew, but bided my time. After all, he hadn't said anything that was more than friendly.

The weeks dragged on, and though I tried to keep up my efforts, I was just getting so sick of the whole thing. I finally told a good friend of ours, "I am not going to be the wife of her boyfriend any more." And just waited for the right time to tell him.

It came a few days later, when late at night I fell asleep on the living room floor while he was working there at the computer. When I awoke, I didn't move or blink, because he was talking to her. They talked about a lot of boring stuff, but then AJ said about one of the other employees, "He's just jealous because he doesn't know we're 'together'." He said he would call her back in a while.

A few minutes later I "woke up" and went to bed. I could still hear every word...more of the same. I had what I felt I needed. With much prayer, I mentally prepared my speech for the following morning. I was finally strong enough to tell him, it's her or me. If it's not me, then you need to leave. I will not be the wife of someone else's boyfriend. (I was pretty fond of that line.)

The next morning I cornered him in the bathroom and began my speech, pointing out once again how much his actions had hurt everyone involved. And then it was like God muzzled me, and I just felt very strongly that I should not continue - not right then.

Looking back, I think it was much the same idea as when God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. He didn't want him to go through with it; He needed to know Abraham was willing. In the same way, it wasn't quite time yet for me to act so decisively, but I needed to know for my own sake that I was strong enough to do it at any time: to actually lay down the fight and tell my husband to go.

It must have been when the first stitches were taken in my Cape of Power. For the first time, I didn't feel like I was at his mercy. He was living on borrowed time, only he didn't know it.

Later that day, I finally was ready to try and learn something about affairs. Up to that point it had never occurred to me that there might even be something to learn. I sat down at the computer and typed in a Google search for coping with infidelity. At the very top of the list was a site called Marriage Builders.

I read every article that day. The next day, I read them all again. The day after that, I got curious about the discussion forum. That was April 18, a very momentous day for me. Just when I had reached my wits' end, and had no clue what else to do, the clear path was laid out before me, step by step.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:35 AM
Oh, hi there B, how's everything? Yep, it was sleazy in the extreme. The only way it could have been sleazier was in a fleabag motel rather than the expensive ones she prefers to patronize.

For most of this, it is the first time I have talked about it here. By the time I found this place, things had reached such an active, desperate stage, that I only put on the basic info of what had already happened, and concentrated on the job at hand. By the time I got here, though I didn't know it, most of the A was over.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:41 AM
Thank you for asking about this, Shattered. I feel so much better for having talked about it. I'm going to have to quit for the night, but I'll come back and finish (?) tomorrow.

Honest, I was planning to do a simple synopsis with just a little more detail than I gave CSue, but once I started spilling I couldn't stop.

Did I say thank you already?
Posted By: ChaCha Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:44 AM
so now you STOP????
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:48 AM

What I can do for the insomniacs out there, is I will hunt down my main thread and post the link. I will still come back tomorrow for another fine venting session, but won't have to leave anyone completely hanging, either.
Oh great, back to the movie on TV.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:55 AM
I said I was sorry.

Ok, I found it. Here is the link to my old thread. It seems like such a long time ago.

What is also kind of funny is that it always seemed like months from when I found MB to PBL#1. I was so shocked when I went back and counted it up as less than 3 weeks. It seemed like forever!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 08:30 AM
I just went and made AJ's lunch, as he has to get up at 4:45 , and couldn't resist dropping by again on my way to bed.

Shattered, you said you needed hope. I can offer that to you. The man who would do all the awful things I just mentioned, and plenty more, is curled up sound asleep in our bed right now. He is on my side because whenever he falls asleep and I'm still up doing things, he starts scooting over farther and farther trying to find me, until he gets to the edge. So far he's always stopped there.

And when he's awake, he (nearly always - he's still human) treats me so tenderly, as if I'm very precious to him. He has done everything I have asked of him for R, and more. He hold me in his arms and prays for me, and for us.

There's hope even if your Wayward does not return to you. You are a beautiful person, and God is with you. You will come through this with more beauty, and full of grace, with or without your WS.

You never know what will reach them. With AJ, the one thing he remembers most were the cards and notes. Each person may be different, but at some level they can't help but recognize what you do. And someday they will care.

When I left your house 1/2 hr. ago, you SAID you were going straight to bed, and yet here you are, still on the computer! Of course, I said I was going straight to bed when I got home, too, and look where we both are. I guess your apple didn't fall very far from the tree, did it? Your sister's probably on, too, after pretending she was so tired!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 08:35 AM
Hi Neaksissee!

(I'm sure you're right.)

And I didn't promise to go to bed; I said I would get up and do a few things. Which I did.

And I didn't promise to go to bed; I said I would get up and do a few things. Which I did.

Oh, goodie! I see you've been able to get your hairsplitter up and functioning again!

Hi Neak,

I guess I went to bed too soon last night! I just finished reading your story and I have tears in my eyes. I am somewhat speechless. It never ceases to amaze me the h**l we can go through and survive. The fact that your husband is there and seems to hold you more precious to him than ever is a sign of hope. Here is a favorite quote of mine when searching for reasons:

The deeper the sorrow that carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. - Cahil Gibran

You did all the right things it seems. And boy girlfriend, you have moxie! I did all the wrong things. I panicked, I told him if he wanted to live the life of a single guy he could GTFO. The next day I told him I didn't really mean that and I wanted him to stay. He left anyway. I threw his clothes out on the lawn and left lots of angry messages. He filed for divorce within a month (I believe OW put him up to this). Right now he is living with her. I believe deep down in my soul that we are meant to be together. Oddly enough, I believe this more now than before the A. Go figure. He is nice to me now. He wants us to always stay good friends. He always seems to be in tears and hugging me. Sometimes he seems to want to come back but can't take that step. I worry that he won't have the balls to break up with her and come back here and try to restore our marriage. That he'll just try to live with the damage he's done. I try not to push him anymore and don't talk about the big "R". I try to "attract, attract, attract". Sometimes I think the affair will last forever, but everything I read says it can't be so. I try to just look to the future when this is all just a bad memory and we have a better marriage because of it. But I have so many doubts.

I love the fact that your mom and sister post here as well. I come from a large family - 7 kids (in grownup bodies). My mother died when I was 18 and one of my sisters passed away a few years ago. The rest of my sibs are scattered. Right now it's me and my son and it is a lonely place to be, especially this time of year. Reading your posts makes me feel at home.

Thank you so very much Neak for taking the time to post your sitch. It helps people like me that are struggling more than I can say.
Posted By: neaksis Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 03:24 PM
I went straight to I said I was going to.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 04:50 PM

Shattered, I am really glad you are finding this helpful. It is helpful to me, too.

I didn't remember to put this in chronologically, but at some point after the first couple of weeks, AJ phased from indifferent to very hostile. I hated the anger, especially since it was directed at me, but somehow felt that it was an improvement. Having been here now, I know he was entering a state of conflict, and that it was a very good sign.

Your description of your WH sounds very hopeful, also. One nice thing about Plan A and Plan B is you can start them and make a difference even if you made terrible mistakes before. Even if you did lots of LB's, you still have a chance to change; it might just take a little more time and consistency to make an impression than it would have otherwise. It sounds as if he is re-attatching to you, at least somewhat, and that is good.
I really like your phrase "I will not be the wife of someone elses boyfriend." Mind if I use it sometimes? I tell you reading the stories on MB has giving me more hope even though my WH is living with the ow. I just have to be more patient which is really hard on me. I don't like sharing the love of my life and best friend.
Thanks for sharing your story!!!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 05:51 PM
Oh, please please copy me! I love to be copied - it's so flattering.

There is lots of hope!!!!!!!! I am starting to see that one of the biggest obstacles is the BS losing their love and moving on before the WS comes to their senses. Often this is from not going into Plan B soon enough. I am such a big fan of Plan B! Even though I didn't have to go through it, its power was still what brought AJ to his senses. (Of course God had been working, too, but he often uses Plans A & B Himself.)

So continue in patience, but focus on taking care of yourself, too. You really are worth it.
"I am starting to see that one of the biggest obstacles is the BS losing their love and moving on before the WS comes to their senses."

They say that all the time here, but I didn't think it would happen to me. Sadly, it did.
Thanks for the encouragement. I refuse to give up my marriage after 23 years. Sometimes I feel like its hopeless but then I wake up and say my family is certainly worth it!!!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 06:52 PM
I have to actually accomplish some things today, but wanted to fit in another installment before I become useful.

One of the big things I remember in my excitement of learning about A & B was the six-month time period. I was getting awfully tired, but thought I might be able to go that long, but only if I calculated it from January, not from when I found MB. That would have taken me to the end of July. *cold chills* I see now I could never have been nice for that long.

Once I came here, every moment of the day was devoted to developing new and better strategies, which might be why it seemed so long. A lot more was happening. For the first time I read that a full-forever-NC was not only something that would be really nice if I could ever get him to agree to it, but something I had to insist on if my marriage was to survive. Everything was so sensible, so hopeful, and it was such a relief to have a plan. Even better, a plan that might actually work.

The general consensus on my expert panel was that I should continue Plan A for a while. Soon I heard the new timeline recommendations, that a Plan A being carried out by a BW should only last 1 1/2-3 months, and about 6 months for a BH. I got short-timers syndrome quite badly at that. It had already been over 3 months, and I knew it would be time to wrap things up soon.

Another interesting thing was how fearful I was when I began to see that AJ was a classic cake-eater. OH NO! NOT A CAKE-EATER! But what I didn't see until later was that it was a good thing he was eating cake. The problem lies not with being a cake-eater, but in being allowed to stay a cake-eater. A greedy cake-eater is much more easily influenced by Plan B, IMO.

Wednesdays were torture to me. From the very beginning, even when the TM's were still clean, every Wednesday would see one or more messages arriving, "It's Wednesday. Are u coming over?" Sometimes he would disappear on Wednesdays, sometimes he would just come home. I spent months trying to figure out what was so special about Wednesdays. I speculated everything from it being their special sex day, to maybe when her XBF and his GF were gone from the house so they would have it to themselves, to maybe a threesome or orgy with said XBF & GF.

So this Wednesday, April 20, I was happy when he came home. He was very attentive, and (close your eyes, Mom) we did some very acrobatic things in the shower late that night.

He had to go to the Bay area first thing in the morning, but suddenly, just after midnight (and right around the time I breathed a sigh of relief because Wednesday was over), he decided to go that night and stay in a motel. That didn't arouse any suspicions, oh noooooo.

So he left.

The next day I spun a little web of information. Neaksis checked her house, and her car was there. I called him several times during the day and said very naughty things to him. For some reason he seemed kind of uncomfortable and embarrassed, and each time didn't close the call with ILY, as had become usual again.

As if that weren't enough, I checked with the employees at the job site where AJ went that afternoon, and they arrived in the same vehicle. I knew already, but then I had him dead to rights.

The next day, after intercepting a message saying, "Up with a smile, I was so tired I slept in till 10!" I was so mad I sent him the following TM: Sweetheart, I want you to know that I know you were with Gargamel from the time you picked her up the other night and took her to the motel until you dropped her off last night. I am not trying to make you angry, but I am not comfortable having sex with you while you are having sex with someone else. I want to stay married to you, and will do whatever it takes to change the things in our relationship that led to this situation as soon as you end all contact with Gargamel for good.

The long version is on my other thread. In a nutshell, he freaked out, came home from work early, and as soon as the kids went to bed went on a 6 hour paranoid rant trying to get me to say I believed him. I wouldn't say it, only replying calmly that I knew they had been together, and that they were having sex.

Ultimately you choose which bridge to die on. Mine was not saying I believed him. I gave in to his pleas for SF once he reached the final, clingy stage of the night. A controversial decision, to be sure, but prophylactics were in use and I had been fully exposed before.

It turned out he was very shocked a couple of days later to find out I still believed (KNEW!!!!!!!!) he was screwing her. It so did not sit well with him, and baffled his poor WS brain.

Well, I must get busy for a bit, really truly.

Believer, it is sad that you lost your love for your WH before he came to his senses, but it's his own stupid fault. You have been more patient than he would ever have the right to expect. Everyone sets their own timetable, and you gave him plenty of time to change his mind. You are wonderful, and he will be so sorry when he realizes that too late.
Neak - I faintly remember that night (don't look Mom). I thought it was on the sink, not in the shower.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 07:21 PM
You could be right. There were so many times in each place.

Ok, you can look again, Mom.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 07:26 PM
An interesting side note on that subject, he elaborated when I asked about it, that he had not been able to do any of those type of creative things with her, because it would remind him too much of me and he wouldn't be able to do it. He said each of the handful of times it happened was strictly missionary position, over and done with. "It was just sex." (He did not mean that as an excuse, but rather in the context of its lack of deep meaning.)

He also said that on those rare occasions where he took her inside my sphere, i.e. taking her to 'our' favorite Chinese restaurant, that it bothered him terribly. Other times he was able to separate us in his mind, but at those times I would intrude and he would feel very guilty.

Yesterday when we talked, he told me that he didn't like it at all when she told him she would be willing to be a second mother to his children, "just not full-time". Even in the fog, he knew he couldn't replace me with her.
Posted By: julieco Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 08:26 PM
I don't really know a single one of you but you are all my new best friends and I wish I could give you all a hug! i needed this!
Well hang around. It does get much better, and really helps to post all of your feelings and questions here. It will help you get well enough to do what you need to do to get through this.
Posted By: julieco Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/04/05 08:35 PM
Thank you so much. God led me here no doubt. I need to get some things done but I had to thank you all for being so open and helping me to do the same. I will be back and who knows what will be going on at that point. It seems to be so up and down I never know what to expect with my H so I am preparing for any and everything!
See you later.

He was very attentive, and (close your eyes, Mom) we did some very acrobatic things in the shower late that night.

Doggone it, Neak. I wasn't quite fast enough, and now I'm BLI-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-IND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You could be right. There were so many times in each place.

OK, what's blind-er than "BLIND"?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 02:18 AM

Hang in there notso/'neak, just like child birth this won't last forever. Weaver

Those of you who needed to see that, you know who you are. No matter what, there will come an end to your perdition, at the time you choose.

Mine wound up to a fast finish. On April 29, he arrived home in the wee hours of the morning. He was just coming from a trip to southern CA, but took the back way home, coming through Reno and down the mountains that way. A friend was with him, whose house was a bit higher up in the hills than Gargamel's.

He arrived home earlier than I expected, so I was very happy, thinking he had rushed home to me. He was so happy to see me, hugging me jubilantly and having his way with me, um, twice.

The next day I intercepted a TM that made it all too clear that I was not his first meat of the evening. It was revolting enough still trying to have sex with him while he was screwing her, but to fit us in so close together made me want to kill him. Ok, not kill, but at least torture and dismember for a year or two. (Guess which member I wanted to dismember first?!?)

That one incident dropped my Love Bank so low that I knew Plan B had to come with lightning speed. I could barely hold myself in from screaming at him, and without the months of self-control practice I don't think I could have. This came right during the time I was preparing to go mysteriously out for the evening.

A couple of people had discussed the possibility of putting a sprinkle of "180" in my Plan A, theorizing that since he had shown many signs of being dependent on me, but was also becoming more deeply entangled with the OW, that if I suddenly wasn't quite as available as he was used to, that he might focus more energy at home and cause stress on the A. They proved right beyond my wildest expectations. (My wildest expectation was that while they were out drinking and maybe screwing, that it wouldn't be quite as enjoyable for him if every little bit he wondered what I was doing.)

A little while before I was ready to go, I sent a TM to AJ telling him only that I was going to be with friends for the evening. He called up shortly and started being really caustic, accusing me of meeting a male friend of ours, and trying to say that something was up with me.

For what happened next, I doubt I could retell it better than I did the first time, so here it is.


Whew! It's been a long night and day! My version differs considerably from WH.

Shortly after 6pm, [her mother] gives her a ride to her sister's, as her car is still in the shop. Sis is gone, but is expected back any minute so Notso waits, groaning as she has to use dialup to access the MB site, looking for a way to pass the time. Also, growing quite chilly in her spring dress, she wishes she had changed before she came. Around 7pm, still online, she sends a slightly vague message to WH informing him she will be out for the evening to "see some friends and stuff". At 7:30 she gets the first of several calls from WH, the one discussed a few posts up. Then WH calls her, very angry, saying he is on his way home from work (4 hrs early) to get the kids, and it is all over between them. Notso is taken aback, and the only thing she is able to guess is that perhaps WH did indeed find a tracking device on his car and is blaming her. She waits and wonders.

Shortly before noon, WH receives a mysterious call from an unknown male asking for Notso by a pet name commonly used only in pre-college days. The UM hangs up abruptly upon finding out Notso is gone. WH's suspicions are aroused, as Notso knows he will be gone to work that day. Then, when he tries to call home that evening, only Gramps answers, saying Notso left in a hurry & is not back. WH tries to call SIL's house, with no luck. (Notso is on the hated dialup, remember?) Then the vague message arrives from one who has always had a tendency to over-explain, and suddenly it all adds up: Notso is going to sleep with someone else to punish him for his transgressions. He must race home and at least save the children from her evil clutches!

[Neaksis] is still not there upon his arrival at 8:30. Notso is not dressed appropriately for the weather, still in the same dress from church. He wants Notso to go and do...whatever it was she was going to do, but she calmly says, "Oh, that's all right, I already called [my female friend] and said I would just come another night." He winces. So she still plans to go, but at least not THIS night. Completely eluding him is the irony of watching Notso like a hawk to prevent her from doing the EXACT SAME THING he had already planned to do that EXACT SAME EVENING!!!!

Oh dear friends, that was such a long discussion. We both remained calm, which was to the good, but I never in a million years expected that reaction. He at least knows very clearly that I still believe he is sleeping with OW, but that I still love him and want us to succeed in working things out. He was even clingier than the other night, holding me all night and all morning, being extra loving and giving until...

After my nap, I was still very sleepy and came out to where he was working on the computer to sit down and rest my head on his knee, as I often do, when he was just downright rude, telling me to go back to bed if I was that tired, and he was too busy for this. Translation: I am in the middle of IM'ing OW trying to make amends for blowing her off last night, and setting up our next meeting (probably going on right now), and I don't want you to see any further proof that I have been lying to you." For somebody with astigmatism, I can see pretty well.

I later found out he had lied to her, telling her some story about having an emergency with the children, and so he couldn't go out with her that night.

This little tidbit from this episode sprang from my lips after several weeks of absorbing Orchid's revers babble. It majorly scrambled him!


WH: Do you really think I'm the kind of scumbag who would go up there and have sex with OW, and then come right back to you and have sex with you, too?

Notso: I love you, and would never want to put labels like that on you.

The look on his face as he tried to find a good interpretation for that was priceless.

A snippet from two days before the Plan B bomb:


Another of life's little ironies...

The other night WH told me that at first he could hardly stand to touch me when we had SF, but now he desired me more than ever. But right now for me, knowing details of what he is doing with OW, I feel just like he did at the beginning, and probably worse. I am swallowing my bile with effort to maintain a very strong Plan A until the very last second when I am ready to implement B. If he weren't so busy having phone sex & worse, he might notice that I can't help being a bit more distant. Ugh!

You can see how far down my love had gone. At that point I would have fallen on my knees and thanked God wholeheartedly if AJ had only left, and stopped tormenting me. I was still willing to try again if he agreed to my PBL terms, but I didn't need him any more, barely wanted him, and would cheerfully have fed him to the pirhanas.
Neak -

I realized last night that the A was sleazy, but YIKES!!!!!!!!!!

Please don't contact that person anymore.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 02:47 AM
May 3 found me reviewing Bible promises and praying for the patience to wait just a few more days, until it was time to act. I decided that Friday the 6th would be the last day of grace for my poor WH. With the help of worthatry and others, my PBL was ready. I only needed to give the house a good cleaning and make sure all his clothes were clean and folded, so they would be easier for him to pack.

I wondered how long he would be gone. Would he stay in a motel? Probably not. Surely he would go straight to her, and rejoice in his least for a little while. I really thought he would ultimately come back, but how many months would it take?

Selfishly a tiny part of me hoped this would be over by July 1, our anniversary. Surely he would not still be spending all his time with his skankylosaur by that nine-year milestone. Would he?

These kind of questions were with me every moment, but I did not doubt the necessity of Plan B. I just could not allow myself to be treated that way any longer, and was ticking off the seconds until it would end.

I had lots of ideas what my Plan B would be like, too. I would have a rest, free of my obligations to my pesky WH. There would be lots of time for my children, and I would be able to start studying up on recovery. After all, I might eventually need it.

At 6:30 on May 4, I was still mulling the details of how to handle the whole thing. How should I deliver the letter? Which day would I pick for sure? Maybe Thursday would be better. What to do with the children? Should I make him leave and then give him the letter right afterwards? What to do?

With no warning, I came on here at 8:53 pm, right after intercepting another vile TM that was just simply the last straw. It was either accelerate my Plan B or wait for him just inside the door, holding a baseball bat. I was flat out of nice.

Neaksis and I cleaned like crazy. She bolstered me when my energy started to waver. I was terrified he would call her to come and help him pack. YUCK! At about 10:30 he called to chat for a few minutes, letting me know he would be home a little later after he took care of a few business matters.

Right about 11, Neaksis and I loaded the kids and Grandpa into the van. I took a last look around the house. The porch light was on, and a single light in the living room. All looked so tranquil, so clean. In the center of the floor, I took the letter and gently propped it on the coffee table. He would see it the moment he walked in.

Numb and tearless, I walked out and quietly shut the door.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 02:51 AM
Yes, ma'am Believer. I am not going to contact her again except to tell her I am not going to contact her again. I still want to totally blast her out of the water and let her have it with all barrels blazing, but you're right. I must not. I must not even blast her out of the water nicely.

She is beyond words, and the grandest statement I can make is to walk quietly away as if she's not worth it. I know she's not, but I have to keep telling myself that. Over and over.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 02:57 AM
You know what is really sick? She knew he still slept with me, having mentioned in one of her first emails how hard it was for her, knowing that. GAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She said she really believed him when he said he was going to leave me. OK, SO WHY DID SHE STILL BELIEVE HIM THE SECOND DAY? AND THE THIRD????? Oh well, Orchid's psycho OW still sounds worse than her, but not by much. (I may have mentioned before that she tried to get AJ to talk to me about threesomes.)

Sorry to leave at such a bad moment, walking out on the PBL and all, but that will probably be my last long post of the day. AJ is on his way home now, and usually arrives verra verra hungrrry. Don't shoot me though; you all know how it ends! I'll just sneak back on here for a moment every now and again, when I'm not performing my wifely duties. Of the housework variety.
Boy Neak, this is a real page turner. You just can't make this stuff up! I'm in another time zone and have to head off to bed now. I'll check in on Plan B in the morning. MB sure does offer a distraction while WS's are out doing their thing! Thanks again for posting. It really helps.

Also, hello Julieco. Pull up a chair. Neak & Co. will keep you entertained for hours.

(I may have mentioned before that she tried to get AJ to talk to me about threesomes.)

And then again, you may NOT have mentioned...

Holy cow, Neak! The mind boggles.

Great. Now I'm not only blind but my mental gears have been stripped, too! For Christmas, I WAS sewing AJ a shirt. However, since all he needs to be wearing for the next century is sackcloth and ashes, I'm reconsidering the project!



(I may have mentioned before that she tried to get AJ to talk to me about threesomes.)

And then again, you may NOT have mentioned... Holy cow, Neak! The mind boggles.

Great. Now I'm not only blind but my mental gears have been stripped, too! For Christmas, I WAS sewing AJ a shirt. However, since all he needs to be wearing for the next century is sackcloth and ashes, I'm reconsidering the project!

Are you still breathing? Those are some graphic images! :

Call me stupid but can you explain the sackcloth and ashes reference?
TO WEAR SACKCLOTH AND ASHES - "To be contrite, penitent or chagrined over something one has done. It was an ancient Hebrew custom to wear sackcloth dusted with or accompanied by ashes as a sign of humbleness in religious ceremonies."
Thanks Beleiver. I never heard that before. That would be most fitting for a FWS wouldn't it?

Are you still breathing? Those are some graphic images! :

WHE-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-EGH?! Nope, not breathing. I'm trying but nothing comes in.

And how pathetic is that, anyway, offering to share your boyfriend with his wife?!!! And no offense to AJ, particularly. This is merely an observation., but we're not talking Tom Selleck, here! Or Rock Hudson, or Tom Selleck, or Tom Selleck, or Tom Selleck (this would be in his Magnum, P.I. days, you understand, not the more recent Dwight B. Eisenhower incarnation!) I'm not trying to justify the idea for anybody, but I can perceive that there are men in this world of sufficient physical charm that some women might be tempted to fight over them...or do dumb, even sleazy (if necessary) things to try and keep them. But for ol' Gargamel to suggest a menage a' trois with AJ's wife, for AJ? Or for that matter, any other male I know personally. The mind boggles all over again.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 06:22 PM
Neaksis says writers should not be allowed to experience tragedies, since they seem to have a compulsion to - what else? - write about them. This is much better than therapy for me anyway, and I am so glad for those of you that are finding it helpful also. AJ was pleased last night when I told him about it, but I doubt he will want to read this. As is typical, he is dealing with it best by wading in deep right at the beginning, getting it all out in the open, and then putting it behind him as fast as possible, taking only the lessons learned. As is also typical, I have not been able to do that, and I am finding out that bringing this whole thing into the open is causing many things to dminish in their sting.

Let's see...I was just walking out the door. We had to get gas, so we drove up to the gas station not far from Gargamel's house, before dropping Neaksis & her gang off at Mom's for the night. As long as we were there anyway, we drove past to see if AJ's car was there, but it wasn't.

After I dropped off Neaksis & Co., including Grandpa, I began driving around trying to figure out where I should stay. I didn't want him able to track me down and come demanding the children while he was still so angry. As long as I wasn't sleepy anyway, I also drove past the infamous hotel where he switched us out every other day. (Just a side note, he still says he did not have sex with her at any time that week. Perhaps even as a WS it was too much for him to take both of his women in the same bed? Oh, gross. Another side note: I did not put it past him at the time, once I was able to bring myself to realize he had begun lying to me, which happened during the week after the hotel episode. I just assumed he was really that disgusting.)

Anyway, his car was not there and I didn't yet know what her car looked like, so I had no idea if they had gone there or not. After wandering around a while longer, I finally came back to a little town about 20 minutes from home. I checked in about 4:30 am and carried the sleeping munchkins in. I wish there had been something else to do with them, but couldn't think of anywhere he wouldn't know to look, and figured they were best off with someone who had legal custody, just in case the police became involved.

Those of you who know the Dervish will not be surprised that I slept on the floor, blocking the doorway. Before I nodded off, I left a message for Mom, letting her know we were safe, but not telling her just where.

Three hours is not a long time to sleep. I got a few more minutes of dozing by telling the children I had gotten donuts for breakfast, and they could have as many as they wanted. (Sometimes they still talk fondly about the Day of the Donut. They think the whole experience was just a huge treat.)

I called Mom, and got my first inkling that my ideas of how this would all go, were somewhat less than correct. She said she hadn't talked to AJ yet, but he had left her a number of messages on her cell (it was busy that night, and she hadn't gotten any of our messages till morning), and he was weeping and begging her to help him.

Then the TM's started to show up on my phone. The tone of them was "I'm so sorry, I'll do anything, just come back." I didn't respond, just stayed dark. That's not what was supposed to happen, and I had no clue what to do next.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 06:29 PM
I can understand someone wanting to have a threesome with me. Woops, there goes my ego again.

When I think of threesomes, I try to picture what it would be like, after doing something like that, to try and get up in front of church and sing or talk just like always. The mind boggles. "Good morning, brothers and sisters. I would like to invite you to turn with me in your hymnals to number....."
Neak, your sister has my MB password in her possession, in case you want to go and revise my post. I don't care. I really wasn't trying to be insulting. I just can't imagine it. I wouldn't expect anybody to do it to keep ME, either. Or anybody. It just seems such a demeaning thing to do, or even contemplate. I wouldn't have done it for MS when he was at his physical peak of attractiveness (Mr. Everest, we called him--as in "Mount" ). Of course, I don't understand why Biomom once offered your brother a BJ if he'd fix her dresser, either. Obviously, not everyone's perspective about sex is the same, is it?!


When I think of threesomes, I try to picture what it would be like, after doing something like that, to try and get up in front of church and sing or talk just like always."

Betcha it'd be hard to sing in a trio, or discuss the Trinity, either. There seems to be a whole lot of mind bogglin' goin' on!


I can understand someone wanting to have a threesome with me. Woops, there goes my ego again."

Hate to crush all that burgeoning self-esteem, darling, but I don't think getting a chance with you was the motivation behind her offer!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 07:04 PM
Not everyone can be Tom Selleck. I don't think AJ would be horribly offended by your surprise that someone, anyone, you know would be the object of such lust. For lack of a better word. He was probably surprised, himself.

Isn't it a good thing he didn't ask me?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 10:11 PM

AJ arrived home much earlier than expected. In fact, he would have been pulling up to the gate just about the time we reached the gas station, at 11:20 pm. As he walked up the steps, nothing seemed out-of-place or abnormal. He opened the door, immediately focusing in on the letter.

Time has drawn a merciful curtain over much of what happened next.

Sobbing, he searched frantically through the house for the children and me, but all the rooms were quiet and empty. He ran to the other side of the house, calling for Grandpa, counting on the great man of faith to give him some guidance as his world dropped away.

He called my cell phone again and again, pleading with me to come back. (My phone was off so he couldn't call up and yell at me.) He tried Mom over and over. No one would answer anywhere, and he was all alone.

More than once during the night he put the muzzle of his pistol in his mouth, tears running down his face, wanting only an end to the dazzling pain.

He began to pray, asking God for forgiveness for the harm he had done to his family, and asking for help to put things right. The rest of the night, he alternated between praying and calling trying to find me, crying all the while. He didn't sleep, determined to stay awake until I came home.
Hi there, I have seen your name around but never heard your full story. (the feminine hygene post is incredibly long did'nt have a few days to read it all) I am amazed at how you have managed thru all this. How long have you been in recovery? BTW this is a fascinating read, would be a bit humorous if it wasn't so true. Can't wait to hear more.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 10:41 PM
Hi, losttiger. Mom's thread only has bits and pieces of my story anyway, and mostly from recovery. (Going on 6 months now.)

If you find it funny, don't be afraid to laugh. Everything can be funny if you look from the right angle.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 11:06 PM
In the morning, he was able to get in touch with one of his best friends, in fact, it was the VP who was planning to come and confront him anyway about the filthy TM's on the corporate phone web page. (Boy was AJ surprised when he found out about that handy little feature.)

The VP told him very bluntly, "She clearly wants to be married to you - look at the letter. But you have to stop what you're doing if you want to keep her."

Mom got the messages when she got off work, and sent an email when she got home letting him know the children were fine, and would be available for a visit later in the day. That was probably not what he wanted to hear, since he knew already that if they were with me, they were fine, but he had to settle for that anyway.

I checked out of the motel and went over to Mom's house, dying for internet access so I could plug back into MB again. I posted the happy news, and could just feel the warm fuzzies spreading over the globe. It was so nice to be able to show up with good news for a change.

We saw to it that AJ got an email telling him that the kids would go to their afternoon class as scheduled, but would be available for pickup at Neaksis' house after 3. I made good use of my internet access, first sending Gargamel a copy of the PBL so she would know she had a fight on her hands, then checking my email, where I found out that there wasn't going to be much of a fight. (Well, I thought at the time.)

My box was crammed with emails. Repentant, beautiful emails, saying how sorry he was for hurting me, how he knew he needed God, and needed my help to find his way back, and that he could see I was right about needing to end contact with Garg. There was even a copy of the NC letter he had gotten too impatient to wait for me to help him with, and had just gone ahead and sent it to both of us.

Just to round this out with a behind-the-scenes look, here is a direct quote from Gargamel describing the incident from her POV.


I am going to due my very best to fight the depression that I am feeling, but loosing your best friend and lover all at once is very difficult. You see, when I needed a friend Jack was there for me, with words of encouragement and advise. I no longer have that. After my job interview, I sent Jack a text message telling him I was done and asking if he was up yet. The only response I got was "check your e-mail"

As I'm sure you have figured out, I was devastated to read that e-mail. Even though Jack made it very clear he wanted no contact with me, I wanted to be there to comfort him, you leaving with the children crushed him. But I respected his wishes and have not spoke to him since then except through the e-mails which you also read.

Once again, there are no words.

This brings us to a flaw in his NC letter, a flaw that would certainly not have existed had I been there to offer my guidance. He told her not to contact him in any way, except by email, which we both would read. From talking to him, and in the context of the NCL, it was clear that what he meant was the tiny bit of necessary communication to end her employment and return company property.

Naturally she chose to interpret it as free communication via email, and after only a day or two it became necessary to clarify that with her.

But I digress. I was still shocked to the point of immobility. I got what I wanted, but now what would I do with it? So much for a couple of months to study up on recovery! I got some good pointers that covered our first discussion, but had a lot of fast work to do over the next few days.

I took the kids to class, and finally called home while I was waiting. I agreed that later that afternoon I would talk to him, but didn't say whether it would be by phone or in person. He sounded awful, as he was still awake just like he said he would be.

It reminds me of the Bible story about Paul, where some of the Jews swore they wouldn't eat or drink till they had killed him. Someone warned him, and he escaped over the city wall in a basket. I always wondered at what point those men decided they might as well eat and drink again, or if some of the more stubborn ones dehydrated to death.

AJ should be really glad I'm not mean.

I had the kids to Neaksis by about 2:30, but didn't talk and type quickly enough, since he was over-eager and came early. I stayed in the back room and Neaksis shuffled the kids out the door.

It turns out that even though my car wasn't there, he knew somehow I was inside, wanting so badly to look for me, but didn't want to push me.

I stayed for a while, just trying to gather myself together, and some time after 4 finally went home.

There really is no predicting their behavior. Based on previous responses I never would have guessed he'd break down. The suicide piece is what really scares me. I think it is very common for both the BS and the WS to have those feelings, although at different times. I think the BS feels it after D-Day and the WS feels it at the end of the affair when the damage hits them right between the eyes. Infidelity is such a serious matter because of that and all the damage to all parties involved.

I have a friend whose husband had a midlife crisis affair and moved in with the typical 20 years younger bimbo. Long story but he moved back home 6 months later. It seemed to have a happy ending and they sounded like they were working hard in recovery. She was so happy to have a second chance with her longterm marriage. Well, I got a message from her the other day. Her husband had a nervous breakdown. On top of that, he is now out of work on disability (hasn't kicked in yet) Christmas is coming, no money, etc. etc. etc. It just never seems to end and go away.

I eagerly await the next installment of your Plan B. At least I know it has a happy ending. Take care.

Now that you mention it, might be wise to edit some of this. Although I'm sure AJ won't mind the rest of us reading all about it, I don't think he would want mom to know.

I don't even want mom to know.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/05/05 11:19 PM
Oh well, she knew all the most interesting parts anyway, some from me and some from him. He knows she knows. And as far as the rest of you, I tooooold him I was writing this, and offered to let him read it if he wanted. Of COURSE he doesn't mind you knowing. (He would probably object if I brought it up during prayer and praise time.)

He did fail to mention the threesome to her, for some reason.

This might be a good time to mention that as soon as his best friend arrived, AJ gave him his gun and asked him to keep it for him for a while. It was about 2 weeks before he asked for it back.

6 months huh, you sound so much farther. I'm at 6 months and still a wreck and i didn't have a sliver of what you had to go to, in fact, some would think i had it easy. It is so nice that you have some support to help you through, no one really knows about my H's A exept my friends here on MB.

Okay, i want to hear the rest......:)
That's good Neak. Somehow, since he has such a wonderful, classy and talented wife, I thought the OW wouldn't be an alley cat. Silly me.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 01:01 AM

You have such a talent for making people feel good about themselves. I am special, aren't I!

Yes, silly you. I learned in geometry that if a=b and b=c, then a=c. So if Gargamel=OW and OW=alley cat, well........

A small digression. In late February I drove alone to the Bay Area to meet some of the staff from the publishing company. They were having a big yearly event with all our church's bookstores represented, while they presented all the new books. Since I could go, they wanted me to help present my book.

On the way, AJ called me and just started to chat for the first time since January. It was a real epiphany for me of just how bad things had gotten. I was so used to short, unfriendly conversations that after a minute or two I started to feel agitated, fighting the urge to let myself go even though there was no reason to. I had to very firmly remind myself that I used to like talking to him, he used to like talking to me, and that this was a very good thing.

We probably talked for a half-hour or 45 minutes, by the end of which I was pretty well catatonic, and headed to LA instead of San Francisco. Fortunately, I was only about 20 minutes off course and I had left very early, so I still made it on time.

The presentation went off without a hitch. (I laughed. I cried! It moved me, Bob!) No one there had any idea anything was wrong.

That day marked the second visible sign that there was a change. (The first change was from indifference to anger.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 01:02 AM
Shattered - your poor friends. I hope they can still find strength together and with God.
Neak -

Don't want to interrupt your story, but since you DO write, how about a book for women about saving their marriage after infidelity?

You sure have the background (both IRL and Christian) for it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 01:09 AM
Losttiger, it's all a matter of perspective. Many days I have read the stories of other people and said to myself, "I thought I had it bad, but look how much worse it is for them." Especially the ones where the A drags on and on and on.

In some ways I had it easier than most, especially in the way AJ bottomed out so fast and came back, but in other ways it was harder. We were so affectionate with each other, and so verbal in our loving expressions, right up until he dropped the bomb. It would have been much easier having his affections cut off suddenly if we had been more distant pre-A.

Don't beat yourself up thinking you should be farther along. It's a good thing nobody on this board can read my thoughts on a moment by moment basis. While I try to always be truthful, and to present an honest expression of what I am actually like, inside my head is often pretty scary. Recently that has been starting to get better, but is still often very hard.

Be patient with youself. This takes lots of time. (Note to self: that applies to you, too.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 01:18 AM
and double

Neaksis just said that last night (about an infidelity book). She believes very strongly that I should do a smallish book on coping with miscarriages and fetal demises, and a book of whatever size on recovering from infidelity.

She makes a very good case. Both are very common, both are seldom talked about, and both have happened to me. I don't happen to have any shyness when it comes to discussing things that lots of people would not want to tell their own mothers, and that frank, matter-of-fact approach would lend itself well to both subjects.

We have both been very surprised that almost everyone we know has lost one or more babies. Some still can hardly mention it after 30 or 40 years.

Not many, like approximately none, have come to us to talk about infidelity, but I know it's out there and needing badly to be discussed. I could start the book about babies any time, but would want to be a little more secure in my recovery before tackling the other one.

I will let Neaksis do the book on child sexual abuse, but will consent to be interviewed.

I'm sure it was no accident that this idea occurred to you. I don't usually listen to Neaksis about this kind of thing until she has been nagging a while, but when I start hearing the same thing from several directions it makes me really think.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 02:13 AM
So I came home.

AJ was in the bedroom with the kids, watching a movie. His eyes were glazed and bloodshot, his face haggard and old. As he held out his arms and I walked into them, he started sobbing again.

The kids were too busy watching the movie to notice when we tiptoed into the bathroom to talk. There were many tears, many hugs and kisses, and in between lots of talk about what we needed to do.

He was enthusiastically in favor of my boundaries.


1. Complete NC, and if contact occurs he must tell me. He thinks this will be easy, but when he gets up I will point him to Dr. H's articles on here so he can be prepared for the reality of temptation when it happens.

2. Honesty - total and complete. I told WH that if there was anything he wasn't ready to talk about yet, to just say that and we would come back to it later, but he has wanted to talk about everything so far.

3. Open-book policy - it was pretty close already, with me having complete access to his bank account and all emails, but there were several privacy fences up; one around his cell phone (or so he thought), and one around his IM. He knows I will be watching those closely.

4. Accountability for time - he offered to take me with him everywhere, and failing that to check in with me often and let me know what he's doing. In addition, he no longer cares if I access him on the GPS.

MC was also a high priority, but he had already talked to our lay pastor asking for counseling by the time I talked to him.

We discussed each of these in sufficient detail that I felt comfortable that he understood them and agreed with each part of them.

Then....close your eyes again Mom, but I seem to remember something about the sink.

We slept so close together that night you couldn't have slid a knife between us, kind of like the stones of the great pyramids. I felt like a huge weight had been taken from me. AT LAST - THE AFFAIR WAS OVER!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 02:32 AM
Those first few days were wonderful. I had my own H back, but even better than before, and Gargamel wrote me, shedding some further light on her mindset. I had been so curious of what goes on in the mind of someone like that, and finally got to see. Oh, some of it was pretty ugly, but in the rosy glow it didn't bother me much. And I got to share with her my feelings, and gently clarify a few points, such as that I did NOT take the children away from AJ, and he knew from the first time he got the letter that he would get to see them in a few hours. It was so helpful, therapeutic almost.

My good advisors warned me immediately that this was a bad idea, and nothing good would come of befriending her. I immediately backed off and kept the rest of the C not unfriendly, but businesslike and uninformative.

In the last couple of weeks before the A bust-up, AJ had borrowed very heavily from her for equipment for a job, then instructed me to use the repayment from the job to cover payroll (instead of paying her right back), which was short because another company owed us an even larger sum of money. (Sorry, it was very complicated.)

Oh, Neaksis just got here. I'll be back later.
I'm back - it is COLD here, and I had some sleeping bags and jackets to take to the field workers.

Anyway, I think you COULD write a book. One of my most favorite is by Ed Wheat, called "How to Save Your Marriage Alone", I think. It is not even a real book, more like a long pamphlet - 56 pages. I bought it on-line.

It is written from a Christian viewpoint, and includes the love story of Hosea.

But of course, he is a man. Neak, you have a unique way of writing, and telling the really hard stuff. I think you could be a great help for women going through this.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 02:35 AM
Thank you, B. I am blessed that God entrusted me with this trial, and perhaps eventually I will even feel blessed. I know He wants me to use it for His glory, and perhaps that is what I am supposed to do.

I'll have to wait until AJ is ready to go public on an international scale, though.
Bwahahaaaaaaa!!!!! I think his story is pretty much on an international scale right now.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 02:56 AM
*thoughtfully* So true, so true.
Save your postings in case you want to use them. You won't think so now, but you will forget what happened. I've been doing this for 3 years. It was one of the most painful things that ever happened to me. And I do remember that.

But now, I can't feel the pain like I did at first. It is just gone.
Thanks for the words of encouragement!! I thought that i had read that you were pregnant, did you miscarry? I hope i am not overstepping the boundaries here, please tell me if i am. I have been away from MB for a little bit so I am catching up right now.
AND, yes you should be writing a book on this, i look forward to seeing you in the family aisle at the bookstore.

excuse my confusion but BELIEVER are you related to NEAK? you sound like it....hee hee
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 04:55 AM
Technically, no I didn't. I don't know for sure, but I think in some ways a miscarriage might have been easier. It is a spontaneously occurring event prior to the twentieth week of pregnancy.

What I had was an induction at 20 weeks, after finding out the baby was dead. It's kind of hairsplitting, but I'm a geek. I can't help it.

You're not out of line. Anybody can ask me anything at all. I can't think of anything I wouldn't be willing to answer, but if something came up I wouldn't be upset in the least, I would just say I didn't want to talk about it. I really, really can't think of anything, though.

The rest of the baby story is coming, and I will feel much better after I tell it, but I will finish this first. Writing really is like therapy for me, but when so many things happen in such a short time it is hard to vent fast enough. The A is actually still more pressing for me, and harder to deal with. Losing Dillon was and is sad, but still in a happy way because I was glad to have had him.

I was not in the least glad to have had a WH.
"I was not in the least glad to have had a WH"

very good point!!!

So sorry to hear of your loss, I have a friend who went thru a similar situation. It isn't easy either way. What a beautiful name, Dillon. I will let you get on with your story, your therapy is mine too, thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 06:56 AM
One last snippet today. (I have just reheated my sweet potato for the fifth or sixth time, and really need to eat it while there is some moisture left.)

It was at that wonderful point in recovery that I made my first mistake. I'm sure what happened would have happened no matter what, but there is no question that I made it easier.

I let her keep her job.

Oh, I made it very clear that I still expected NC with AJ, and any questions would come to me, but she would still have a link to us. She promised it would just be for a short time while she found another job, and reminded me about the money owed her.

Those of you who only met me recently may be surprised to find that I was a little afraid of her. (What if she sues? *tremble, tremble*) And she seemed so nice. At last, she was ready to do the honorable thing and let him go.

When pigs fly.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 06:59 AM

What a beautiful name, Dillon.

Thank you. It means 'pledge'. I would never have named him that if he had lived, because 3 boys with D names would have been 2 too many. (It was too late to change the Dervish's name by the time I figured this out.) I'm just not that good at tongue twisters.

I had lots of girls' names picked out.

He did fail to mention the threesome to her, for some reason.

I wonder why?

Elucidate, Neak. Enlighten me...


Then....close your eyes again Mom, but I seem to remember something about the sink.

I am never going to be able to look that sink in the faucets again without !


I'll have to wait until AJ is ready to go public on an international scale, though.

Right. We want to keep this a secret a little longer!


(the feminine hygene post is incredibly long did'nt have a few days to read it all)

Yes, it is, isn't it? It was like Topsy, and just G-R-E-W! And isn't it wonderful that it's so long? That means that it becomes increasing less likely that more people will stumble across The Sad Saga of OtherSusan the Stupid, scattered amongst those earlier pages, and the rendering of my youthful follies can begin to fade from memory at last.


That's good Neak. Somehow, since he has such a wonderful, classy and talented wife, I thought the OW wouldn't be an alley cat. Silly me.

If he wanted "wonderful", "classy", and "talented", he could've just stayed home! Sometimes I've wondered if Garg's very average-ness wasn't part of her charm for AJ--here was a woman who couldn't do all these things he couldn't do either, and with whom he risked no unflattering comparisons. I'm not saying anybody did this to him on purpose, including Neak. In fact, she bent over backwards to avoid it. It was (and is still, and he's going to have to deal with it) just there in living. Pretty much everybody but her next-door neighbor loves Neak. (Neak's dog killed the neighbor's special chickens! And her cat? I forget--stupid dog) She's admired for her musical abilities, her book, her outgoing personality, etc. AJ has had several business failures. His strengths aren't things that "display" well in public, and so he has never gotten the same kind of general, admiring feedback that his wife does. I think it was kinda like being Mr. Neak. Doesn't go over well in Hollywood, and I suspect it got old here, too. I think that the admiration of somebody who wasn't even a subconscious threat on any level was very attractive to him. Can't say for sure. But it makes sense to me, given my observation of the situation for the last 10 years.

Quote: I think that the admiration of somebody who wasn't even a subconscious threat on any level was very attractive to him. Can't say for sure. End Quote

I think you are right on the mark. The various A books say that the OP is usually not better looking, smarter, etc. It puts the WS in a position of superiority. In my case as well, it was a long term marriage. Along comes Miss Floozy and starts blowing sunshine up his . . . That kind of admiration and adoration can become intoxicating I assume. Just like everything else that is filled with hot air, it deflates sooner or later.
OH i second that.

t&l: now you peaked my curiousity....gonna have to start reading the site again...

Hey, is there an age difference between AJ and the scumbag?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 03:59 PM
ROFL, she's an OOW - an Older Other Woman. Not enough to get too smug over, but she's 35 and we're 33. She's never married, we're.......married. She has money, we........don't. (Sigh) There are numerous other contrasts, but that's a start.

You can't imagine how happy I was when I found out she wasn't 24. (I found a wad of papers in his drawer where he'd done a background check on her.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 04:08 PM
It won't be long before AJ starts getting up in front and doing stuff. Probably not singing. But he's getting so excited about everything he's learning that he wants to share with everybody.

Don't take this as snivelling about my blessings, because it's not; it's just a simple statement of fact. I love music and writing and talking and stuff, but it's not just fun and games being blessed with several talents. God gives you gifts because He expects you to use them. Each must be carefully developed, not just hidden away.

Everybody has their own talent(s), but to those who are given more, more is required. I do not always do a good job of living up to that. Oh, I hardly ever do anything terrible, but there's much more to serving God than just not being bad. That's where I often get lost, by not being able to manage my time well enough to utilize my full potential.

Ok, down off the soapbox.

Along comes Miss Floozy and starts blowing sunshine up his . . .

Dare I hope that he at least got a really bad sunburn out of it?

Do you remember that very popular John Denver song back a couple of decades ago that explored this theme? Sure you do. Everybody sing along, now..."Sunshine up my ..." Oh, wait--wrong body part!


That's interesting that you were so glad she wasn't 24. I was more threatened by the fact that she was closer to his age. To me that had the makings of a more lasting relationship. I was hoping she was a young bimbo.

It won't be long before AJ starts getting up in front and doing stuff.

And I would be the very last person to discourage him from this. However, we were speaking (at least I was!) about what had occurred in the past that may have paved the way towards an affair. Whatever happens from here on out will never change what's already gone before. And let's be fair here--you've got to admit you've got a head start on him in the public adulation department. Even though I know you don't encourage it, you get it anyway, on a regular basis. And if he's going to continue to live with you, either you'll have to bury your talents to a greater or lesser extent, or he'll have to learn some way to accept what is without letting resentment build again.

And I'm certainly not saying I know HOW he should do this, so don't be looking for any advice from me. Analysis and diagnosis? You've come to the right place. A cure? Kinda iffy, if you ask me. Oh, right. You didn't.


P.S. I hope the appraiser appreciates your literary achievements!

Here's another thought about the OW. Maybe it wasn't AJ she wanted to conquer but you (not in the sexual sense). If you are as talented as your mommy says stealing your husband would be quite the ego boost for a single psychopathic female. Maybe AJ was just a pawn in a power play. IMHO she was pretty darn brazen. If it was me sleeping with a married guy and his wife showed up at the hotel room, my sorry arse would be out of there faster than Michael Jackson can pull his pants up!

Then again, I do see a pattern with some OW/OM. They are predators and will stop at nothing to get what they want.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 04:52 PM
Um, Mom, I was actually putting it over here, but I don't care if you borrowed it.

The reason I am smiling as if I meant it was because this was either PBL day or within a couple days of it.

And yes, even the baggy clothes could not hide that I had lost more weight than was good for me.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/06/05 05:04 PM
Shattered, you may have a point. I am not sure how much she knew at the beginning, but by the part of the story which will be coming up shortly, she knew plenty that must have galled her no end, and made her even more determined than she already was.

She tried over and over to smear me to him, and it worked for a while, but he knows me too well and finally couldn't swallow it.

I am signing off for a bit, but will be back later this afternoon. After I booked the motel for AJ yesterday, his hours got cut. Suddenly, not only was he spending the night alone, which he didn't want to do, (that's ok, I wasn't that crazy about it either), but he would be alooooooone until 1 pm. So we are going to see him for lunch, then coming right back to work some more toward getting ready for the appraisal.

Don't have too much fun without me!
"stealing your husband would be quite the ego boost for a single psychopathic female"

Shattered - You've touched on something here. My WH's OW is 20 years younger than us. And, she now has my husband. The strange thing is, that is not enough for her. She continues to drive by my house all of the time. She has started a job working at the same base where I work. It's all very strange.
And if I were ever the OW (God forbid), and his wife caught us together, I would be MORTIFIED.

And if I were ever the OW (God forbid), and his wife caught us together, I would be MORTIFIED.

Exactly my point. Didn't she stay on the bed, chatting on her cell phone? She's lucky she didn't get shot! Hasn't she heard the expression "****** hath no fury like a woman scorned."
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 01:15 AM
She didn't budge. She might almost have been a statue. I think I saw her eyelashes flicker in my direction, but she kept her face turned away. It wouldn't be shame, for she has none.

I really wonder what was going on in her mind at the time. Not that it's worth knowing.

This might be a good time to slip in this fascinating little reminiscence (sp?). This occurred right after that doofus hired her on with the corp, after the first time they had sex, and while they were supposedly 'just friends'. I figured when I did it that I would at least find out for my own benefit how 'just friends' they really were, and I did.


In case anyone needs a good chuckle, I'll share the story of my only contact with OW. After hiring her on, WH had said repeatedly that nothing was going on, so I sent her a very sweet text message reading something like this: "K****, I wanted to invite you to have lunch with me one of the days this week. Tues would be good for me. I don't want to talk about WH - he told me what happened between you, said he was sorry, I forgave him, and we have moved forward from there. Maybe we can never be friends, but if you're going to work for us, I'd like us to at least be acquaintances that are comfortable speaking to each other."

Oh, I was sincere enough in what I wrote, and would have readily had lunch with her had she indicated a desire to do so, but oddly enough all she did was call WH to complain. He called me, quite irate, but couldn't win against my niceness. With what I now know, a note like that must have given her a real start, LOL.

BTW, lunch was really nice.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 01:25 AM
So I let her stay with the company. She sent her hours to me, I sent them to the payroll company. She sent her incident reports to me, and I filed them. Other than that, she stood her post and we left each other alone.

After about a week and a half a small amount of contact occurred, and I found out about it. I am not going to look it up right now, but if memory serves, there was a phone call and at least one TM. I told him I had found it, but other than that walked around in a catatonic state for a full week. Having it begin again after the tears and the promises was just too much for my poor little mind at first.

When I finally came to, I talked to him about it more. He said he had no idea it would bother me that much, , and he was only just asking her a quick work-related question, again. Because it had made him kind of uncomfortable to have a zombie for a wife, he promised again that there would be NC. I wasn't sure the problem had been dealt with, so just silently watched even more closely.
Did she fall off the face of the earth? Here I log on before I go to bed this morning to find out what's been happening in my neck of the woods, only to find her on the bottom of page 2. When she was little we called her "Diarrhea Elizablatt" because she talked so much. I can't believe she actually ran out of words! Maybe she's been busy getting the house ready for the appraisal. Good Neak.

Or not. Depends on what she's been doing while she was mute.


Did she fall off the face of the earth?

I know! Isn't it just like an author to leave you hanging! Sheesh!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 09:41 PM
So sorry, and abjectest apologies!

Yes, it was the appraisal.

Neaksis, being the merciless taskmaster she is, kept me slaving at top speed until 11:30 last night, at which time she finally released me to spend a little, um, quality time with my own husband, but you might imagine I was up a little late.

I dragged my weary butt out of bed at 7:30 and got busy again, and logged on here just as soon as she left to go pick up kids from school. (She left me a whole list of jobs to do while she was gone, too.) So this mouse will try to play a little while Neaksis is gone, but first I have to go make some soy turkey sandwiches for everybody's lunches.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 10:54 PM
The second mistake I made in recovery was a neglect of the details. I had all my major boundaries in place, but didn't absorb or implement the fine print, the closing of every possible avenue, no matter how tiny, whereby Gargamel could contact AJ.

I have been reading through this part of my old thread, trying to remember more of what went wrong, but those seemingly insignificant contacts so shattered me that I was appearing to function but without so much as a synapse firing inside my brain.

It's all there in black and white, they told me what I needed to do, and I responded back approvingly. Even to read it myself, I sounded like I had a good grasp of what was going on. I don't remember any of it. I know we switched his cell phone and issued his to one of the other employees.

Hindsight will become 20/20 if you let it, and I can see now that even though there were numerous details that should have been attended to from day 1, the means through which the second phase of the A was established was something I wouldn't have guessed.

Around the 24th of May, AJ was scheduled for his first day back since PBL Day, at the job where the A had started. She had already been forced to resign even before D-day, so she wouldn't be working with him - her only job was still with our company. I thought it might bother him a bit to go back again.

He said it wouldn't, so I didn't push the issue. BUT, since he was also scheduled to work the next day, a much-hated Wednesday, I made it very clear that I would meet him right after work and go out with him.

Tuesday night he was fine, and said everything was so different with the new boss that it didn't bother him to be back. He seemed like he meant it, so I mentally filed it away as Case Closed.

When quitting time came the next day, I was waiting in the parking lot. He was surprised to see me, and a bit irritated. He had no recollection that we were going out to dinner, and said he was too tired and just wanted to go home. Plus, he and another lady had just gotten back from removing several animals from sewer-infested conditions, and his point that he was too dirty to be in public was valid.

I grabbed takeout and met him at home.

Much later I learned that Gargamel had found out from some of her friends that he would be working that day, then went by and left a note on his car. She told him she would heal so much better if she could only hear from him once in a while, she missed him sooooooooo much, and please just call!

He did.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 11:13 PM
I never connected the exact timing of it with those days at his job, but things were just not as good. He wasn't as loving as he had been at first, not as happy, not as anything. I asked him if something was wrong, but he said no and I chalked it up to withdrawal finally hitting.

Things never got really bad, but they just weren't good anymore.

Then on June 18, I found her number on his cell phone. He was right there next to me when I saw it, and as soon as I asked him about it, he snatched the phone from me, pushed a few buttons, then told me his phone must have called her by mistake, but now he had blocked her number from his phone. Oh, and in order to do so, it had to delete the call record.

Am I the only one who thinks that sounded fishy? Of course not. It suddenly began to get really foggy around there.


It was like history repeating itself all over again. Blame, guilt - everybody's kicking me while I'm down, think what you want - you will anyway, I haven't done anything wrong, I've tried so hard and you still think bad things about me, so this is why you've been treating me so badly, do you want me to leave, I wish I could hide from everybody & never see anyone again, and here's the kicker, IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, JUST ASK OW. He said the same thing about asking her when he was denying sleeping with her again. FOG FOG FOG

This led to the single most idiotic thing I have done here on the forum. I tried to change my posting name. See, he had been on here more than once to read stuff, and even to post a little. I was afraid if he happened to see what I was up to, he would be warned. That would be bad.

First I tried to make a separate account, but it wouldn't go through for some reason. So I changed my name, thinking it would only affect the thread on which I changed it.


Normally it wouldn't have gotten much notice, but just that morning I had started a really hot sex thread, How To Seduce a Reluctant Husband, or something like that. Everybody was having a blast adding their favorite seduction tips. Then suddenly, HopeImWrong was plastered all over the places that only moment before were not_so_you_neak. I am not the Head of Information Technology on Idiotville for nothing!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 11:23 PM
Of course I didn't want to believe it could be happening again, but there was a huge difference between my reaction the first time NC was broken, and the second. The first, I was frozen. The second, I was steamed.

I took care not to fly off the handle. Before I did any more confronting, I started finding out what I could. I had been checking his phone and email quite often, but started branching out a little. First, I called the phone company and established that it was not possible to block the phone in that way. I knew he would try every which way to Sunday to wiggle out of this, and was still under the mistaken impression that I had to prove what he had done to him to be able to do something about it.

Yes, I needed to have a good idea what was going on, and not make wild accusations with no evidence, but I did not need to prove anything to him, as he already knew it was true.

I was very honored to have Lemonman take me briefly to task for hoping there might yet be some logical explanation that didn't involve AJ breaking his promises. He was perfectly right: I had to face that all those promises I had put so much faith in, though they were sincere at the time, were now worth squat.

Once I had fully accepted that, it was fairly easy to proceed with planning and figuring. My love was at such a low level that I achieved near Vulcan-like detatchment.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 11:48 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that on May 19, she had sent him a birthday card, which he told me about. It was one of his last few reliable actions before Part II.

By June 22, I was well along in my thoughts of organizing another Plan B. One of my posts mentioned that AJ was very upset that I was trying to get on birth control pills, apparently not liking the idea that then I could do whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. Well, that is how it was supposed to work. He must have thought the whatever and whenever might also include whoever.

Upon checking the call details for his phone, thoughtfully provided by the phone company, I was able to see a pattern. There would be a short, 1 or 2 minute call to Gargamel, followed immediately by an incoming call from a blocked number, which would last for much longer. Of course I knew it was her, but AJ later confirmed that she simply dialed *67, rather than getting a whole new blocked phone.

Several days after the first incident, he also tried to 'show' me how his phone could accidentally scroll down through the list, then if a certain number was bumped, it would make the call.

I asked him to show me how to block numbers. (No reason he should be comfortable, right?) He pushed buttons around randomly for a minute before saying that he just couldn't remember, and had to get to work anyway.

As at the first confrontation, he denied having EVER spoken to her since Cinco de Mayo.

When I looked more closely at his phone, I found that it actually did call numbers if that button was pushed, but the only list it would scroll through was the list of numbers he had recently called. Even though I didn't need it, I had enough proof to satisfy the most demanding critic.

Over the 23rd and 24th I wrote more letters that were scrapped by the pros. TMI, the curse of every writer! The unanimous advice was to keep it very short, and maybe include a couple of Bible verses.

The morning of the 24th I indicated that I intended to talk to AJ that night. It is too much water under the bridge, and I can't remember why I didn't. I am guessing that because of whatever happened, I was going to wait until he had a day off, when there would be time to sit down for a while. Who knows? I can guarantee I wasn't dragging my feet without a very good reason.

What I do remember is that certain events necessitated moving a little more quickly.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/07/05 11:56 PM
That Saturday night he worked a shift at Gargamel's job site so she could have a day off. Just at midnight, he was seen outside the store, making a call that lasted at least 10 minutes.

When he got home, (he did come straight home), his phone had no record of any call. I wanted to confront him on that, too, but still struggled with the whole proof thing. What if it was somehow somebody else??? The phone records wouldn't be available until after the first week of July, and I didn't want to wait that long.

I prayed very earnestly that God would show me the truth, and was that really her AJ had called? It was like God whispered very quietly in my head, "Why are you asking Me, when you already know the truth?"

It was another real lightbulb moment, and I got what everybody had been trying to tell me all along. What matters is what you know, not what you can prove.
OK, break's over. Back to work.

Hope the rest comes in time for my bedtime story.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 01:46 AM
A lot depends on Neaksis. I'll try...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 02:57 AM
You have to promise not to kill me if I have to stop in a really interesting place.

Monday morning, June 27, 2005, dawned bright and clear. The sun was shining, the birds, were singing, and the dogs were chasing pheasants. A ladybug crawled slowly up the stem of a star thistle.

Ok, I'll try to move it along a little faster.

Monday morning, AJ headed out to an installation job in Sacramento. One of his friends was supposed to meet him there to help him, and my brother was going down a little later.

Part-way there, he called me and gently probed to make sure I was staying home, and not going anywhere. "Now you don't have to come down and help me, ok? The other guys will help me and that will be plenty. You just go ahead and get the other stuff done for the company. I luv you!!!!" No, that wasn't suspicious, either.

I was about ready to jump in the car on the spot, but decided not to be hasty. Plus, I would have to get rid of the children.

My brother left to go down there, and I asked him to let me know if she showed up.

Neaksis came by and stayed for a while, in case I needed her, but after time ticked by and nothing happened she gave up and got ready to run some errands. (I would not have been able to contact her via cell phone, and AJ had my car, so I would have been stuck.)

She said goodbye, and walked out to her car. The phone rang. It was my brother. "She's here."

I ran outside barefoot, waving my arms and yelling. Neaksis saw me just as she was driving away, and stopped. I am so blessed to have her for a sister. For just a short time, I lost my Vulcaninity, and trembled and dithered with the best of them. She sternly marshalled the troops, and cracked the whip over me to hurry up and shower and beautify.

Nothing in my closet seemed quite suitable for the occasion, so we went by her house - I had to drop her off anyway - and she picked out this darling little sundress: bright red with flowers, short and shapely and flirty.

By the time I got in the car to leave, I was very very calm. I was simply going to go and tell him in person that I had had enough.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 03:02 AM
Since I see Neaksis has caught me posting instead of working, let me just take this time to say....

Gosh, she's a real slave-driver. Send her to my house some time. I need to clean instead of post.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 03:49 AM
She's a one-woman army. You don't know what you're asking for, but you would like it after...............................................if you could still move.
Posted By: ChaCha Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 04:13 AM

You have to promise not to kill me if I have to stop in a really interesting place

You better be typing cause your life is in DANGER!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 04:15 AM
Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just lost my WHOLE POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will try and retype it before Neaksis realizes I'm still missing.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 04:19 AM
Rats. She noticed. I will quickly put in a quote to tide you over till her attention wanders from me again.


Hi everybody!
This is notso's special, wonderful, and awesome sister here. Notso asked me to post and let everyone know what is happening right now so you can tune in for all the gory details later on this evening.
WH was working today and notso suspected that OW would be coming from WH's suspicious behavior. Then notso's brother went to help out with the work. Of course WH is not so foolish as to have OW there when BS's own brother is coming. Oh dear. He is.
So neaky is on her way down to surprise them. What she says will doubtless depend on the moment's inspiration, but she said to tell everyone that she is very calm and in a very strong place. Awesome and amazing were her exact words.

Isn't she the cutest thing?
Good timing. I'm having such a hard time right now, and I am just struggling with "why bother" being polite anymore, since that certainly didn't help prevent this mess. Thanks for a chins up!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 04:56 AM
Think, think, think. I remember I started out the lost post by telling of some of the problems AJ had after coming home to an empty house and a PBL.

Even at the same time he was complaining about feeling like a prisoner, and me being his parole officer, (while there was C), he would go nuts if he couldn't reach my by phone, even for a short time. One day, I went outside to use the weedeater for an hour or so, and he was frantic and angry when I finally got inside and called him. I quickly developed the habit of letting him know where I was in the minutest detail, so he wouldn't think I had taken off without telling him. (He is better now, mostly.)

His insecurity was so great that if I got up during the night to go to the bathroom, and he felt that I was gone, he would wake up yelling for me. That happened alot, but hardly ever any more.

So I promised him on quite a few different occasions that if we had a big problem like that again, that I would talk to him in person, and not leave without telling him. That was one very important reason I wanted to have this confrontation in person.

I prayed the whole way down, and wondered what I should say if she was still there. I'm not sure if I was more relieved or disappointed when she was gone.

As I pulled up, AJ ducked inside the building really fast, and my wonderful brother told me he called her to tell her not to come back because I was there. (She was off getting more tools for him - another loan!)

He walked nonchalantly across the parking lot, but one look at my expression and he knew that I knew that he knew that I knew. He began crying right there in the parking lot, talking as fast as an auctioneer who was trying to sell something. He told me he hadn't had any idea she was going to be down there that day, (bet I could guess when he found out...), that she had called to say that if he wouldn't talk to her, she was just going to come down there and talk to him, and that he had told her to go and she just wouldn't leave.

To which I replied, "Then why didn't you call the police?" But the answer I got to that one was not entirely clear.

He just kept babbling. "Baby, please believe me! I swear I'm not lying to you this time! I'm really telling you the truth - please just believe me!"

I didn't say a whole lot, except for asking occasional probing questions. He was unnerved by my calmness, as well as the distant, skeptical look that answered everything he said.

We weren't going to get very far in the parking lot, especially since he kept minimizing everything, so I said I was going to go, and we would just talk when he got home.

He begged me not to leave him (overall, not just in the parking lot), and must have asked me at least ten different ways if I was really going to wait for him at home, or go away without a word.

"We'll talk when you get home. I don't know. I can't make any promises. We'll talk when you get home."

Neak the Broken Record.

He tried to hug and kiss me a number of times, and was dismayed in the extreme by my marked lack of enthusiasm. (Somewhere along the lines of zero.) I coolly detatched myself from him and got in the car.

"We'll talk when you get home."

she picked out this darling little sundress: bright red with flowers, short and shapely and flirty.

Don't forget the push-up bra. That dress wouldn't have been nearly so shapely or flirty without it!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 05:01 AM

You're welcome. This is a very good place, and you will find awesome support.

I haven't seen your story, but I'll look it up as soon as Neaksis lets me have a break again. For now, it's back to the salt mines.

Definitely keep your chin up. If your politeness helps bring back your WS, you will be glad. If it doesn't help bring your WS back but you come through it all with grace and dignity, you will still be glad.


Of course WH is not so foolish as to have OW there when BS's own brother is coming. Oh dear. He is.

This was interesting to me when it happened, since Neakbro and AJ have been pretty good friends for years, and hang out together when they can. In addition, Neakbro shares his father's pathological distate of getting involved in anything that smacks of distasteful emotional involvement, or might involve the splatter of body parts. . However, in this case, it turned out that blood was still thicker than alien stupidity, and Neakbro went down to help spy without hesitating or complaining...or dithering about conficted loyalties. Good Neakbro.


Isn't she the cutest thing?

Quit kissing up to your sister, Neak. It won't get you out of anything she wants you to do. Trust me--it's been tried. Didn't work any of THOSE times, either.


P.S. Look up American General in Sacramento on and you can get the number. It's on Micron Ave.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 08:27 PM
That reminds me of another example of just how sleazy this was. AJ took Gargamel to my own brother's house, if you can believe it. This was probably the same trip where she drove AJ & my brother to another job site and stayed there all day.

My brother was a little suspicious, but not enough to say anything to me at the time. However, he remembered the car type well enough to describe it to me much later.

Also, my brother, prince in the realm of conflict avoidance, actually spoke up in my behalf, telling AJ that if he was going to do this kind of stuff he at least shouldn't hide it from me. I'm sure you can see some gaping holes in the logic, but that was a huge thing for Neakbro, and kinda sweet. (This was right after I drove away that day, wearing the famous red dress.)

BTW, Tuesday I had an OW-sighting. I was going one way and she was going the other. Now I recognize her car type anywhere. It's an awful awareness, but is still good because it leaves me less vulnerable to surprises, like meeting her around the aisle in the grocery store.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 10:08 PM
While I waited for them to finish for the day, I spent my time putting the finishing touches on my PBL and list of boundaries.

While I had a pretty good intention of still attempting to salvage my marriage, I also wanted to push the idea of having him leave for several days to give us a chance to decide what we wanted to do. I was willing, but only a little willing, to be persuaded to reconcile earlier, but not to be persuaded quickly or easily.

Just for review, here was my original list of boundaries.


1. Complete NC, and if contact occurs he must tell me. He thinks this will be easy, but when he gets up I will point him to Dr. H's articles on here so he can be prepared for the reality of temptation when it happens.

2. Honesty - total and complete. I told WH that if there was anything he wasn't ready to talk about yet, to just say that and we would come back to it later, but he has wanted to talk about everything so far.

3. Open-book policy - it was pretty close already, with me having complete access to his bank account and all emails, but there were several privacy fences up; one around his cell phone (or so he thought), and one around his IM. He knows I will be watching those closely.

4. Accountability for time - he offered to take me with him everywhere, and failing that to check in with me often and let me know what he's doing. In addition, he no longer cares if I access him on the GPS.

[And he had already taken care of #5, the marriage counseling.]

For the sake of comparison, here is the new, improved list of boundaries that were to govern recovery #2, if there was to be a recovery #2.


What It Will Take

· Another letter to Gargamel, explaining that you will not communicate with her again—ever. No loopholes. No contact for the rest of your life. Period.
· In this letter you will also let her know that she has until the end of July to find alternate employment. I agreed to let her work for us on a temporary basis, and that time has long since passed. [We shortened this time period to last only until the end of the payroll she was currently in.]
· Become completely honest. Our marriage will not survive further deception. This not only includes not lying to me, but means not giving me a false perception of something, as you tried to do with the phone calls. No lies, no evasion, no covering, just the full and complete truth.
· Commit to weekly marriage counseling with me, whether by phone or in person. After all this trauma, we need every possible advantage in order to recover our marriage.
· Keep in close touch the way you have been. I am willing to do the same to reassure you.
· Resign from [the job where the A began]. Your phone calls began again just after you started to work there for the first time since breaking up with her.
· Every possible precaution must be taken to erase her from our lives and make contact with her so difficult that you would have to make great efforts and great deception to even make it possible. This includes, but is not limited to:
o Trade cell phones using the phones from you, [and several other employees], and do not give her the new number.
o Give me your current cell phone (instead of [the one I have now]).
o Block her number from your phone.
o Get caller-ID-blocking blocked so there are no blocked numbers on the phone bill.
o Block all of her email addresses from all of your email addresses.
o Delete her from every possible contact list you have.
o Get rid of anything she has given you, cards, memorabilia, anything at all. (The tools will be paid for, and belong to the company anyway.)
o If you have to schedule her for the short time she remains with our company, institute employee numbers instead of names. [By now the sound of her name is so unpleasant for both of us that we refer to her as A Certain Person so we don't have to name her directly.]
o She will not hold any position in the company except [the one she now holds], and that only through July 31 at the latest. [He had previously been trying to get me to give her more assignments, such as scheduling all the employees. I will try to remember to say more about that later.]
o I will continue to deal with all money issues relating to repaying her loans to you. I will let you know once the money is all paid off, but other than that don’t bring it up. You can believe that I will pay it off as fast as humanly possible.
o Do not mention her in the context of the present. She has no more part in our lives. That means you don’t ask how she is doing, if I have mailed her check, or anything current. It is as if she is now dead, and has no place among the living. (The only time her name will ever come up is in dealing with something affair-related.)
o Tell me immediately if there is ever contact of any kind. If you are honest about this, we will simply find a way to prevent it from happening again through more precautions.

If this agreement is broken, at that point the only way I would even think of continuing to be married to you is if we move out of state, far from this area. (Carson City is not nearly far enough, Westby might be.) And, to be very blunt, depending on the level of dishonesty, especially in the face of all these precautions, I might very well decide to end things at that point.
You need to have some glimmer of how badly this recent episode has hurt me, in spite of how calm I have been in talking to you about it. After I compiled the list of phone calls showing just how many times you had called her, and had her call you right back, and exactly how long you talked each time, I walked quietly into the bathroom. For a little while I thought I might just throw up, but instead broke into hysterical, wordless sobbing. I have no idea how long I cried, but it was a long while.
I will not let this continue. There will be no accidents or second chances. There will be no excuses, and no reasons for any type of contact, at any time, ever. No matter how much trouble it might be to put these things into place, it is little enough to prevent the kind of agony I have suffered, and am still suffering now. I will not risk being hurt like this again. I love you enough that I am willing to try one more time, and I hope and pray you will decide to take that chance.

Whatever else you might think about it, there is no arguing that the second list is far more comprehensive than the first. I also made it very clear that if thought of further precautions, they would be added to the list at that time.

Please take this very much to heart: you can never have too many precautions.

Well, maybe you could, but you'd have to try really hard. Don't neglect this little stuff. The Bible says it is the little foxes that spoil the grapes. Because of how repentant AJ had been at the beginning, I underestimated the hold the A still had on him, and just didn't think all that was necessary.

It is far better to do it right from the start.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/05 10:57 PM
For the first time ever released on this forum, the second, short PBL, created using the advice of many, but the Bible verse idea was from Mimi, and seconded by Believer. (Thanks guys, it made him cry. Again.)


Dear Sweetheart,
I love you more than I know how to say, and have kept on loving you through this ordeal of the past months. On May 5, in order to preserve our love and our marriage, you promised you would end all contact with Gargamel for good. Yet you have been talking to her on the phone, and have told many lies to cover it up.
Our marriage will not survive if you continue your communication with Gargamel, and if you continue to be dishonest about any part of this affair. I love you. I want to be married to you. I want to go to St. Louis with you. [We were to attend a book signing there; that was the excuse, but it was our ninth anniversary.] I want to raise our children with you. I want to sleep every night with you curled up next to me. I want to grow old with you at my side.
Once again you must face a decision of “no contact”. You can choose to be my husband to me, and take every precaution to avoid further contact with Gargamel, or you can choose to leave and have no contact with me. There is no middle ground. I love you so much, and I hope you will choose to reconcile with me.
Moses stood before the children of Israel for the last time, tears streaming down his face. In a choked voice he told them, “I call heaven and earth to witness against you that I have set before you this day death and life. Therefore choose life, that you and your children may live.”
I love you with all my heart,

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 12:20 AM
That was one of the shorter work days on record. AJ called an early end to it and beat feet home. On the way he called more than once to be sure I was still there, and would wait to talk to him.

The second or third time he called, we talked for quite a while. I told him I thought we should separate for a few days, and get things figured out before we decided anything. He really didn't like that idea, and unhappily asked how long I was talking about.

Airily I replied, "Oh, I'll just talk to you after I get back from St. Louis." I gave no hint that a teeny part of me hoped that somehow he would still go - we had been planning the trip since even before the A.

"Nooooooooooo!" he wailed. "You mean you don't even want me to go to St. Louis with you anymore?"

"I'm not sure." I shrugged almost audibly. "We can talk about it when you get home."

I started to let myself go once, but he asked me to please keep talking to him. I'm sure he was still afraid I would hang up and then go sneaking off so he would come home to an empty house again. He was so scared of that empty house.

Just before he lost signal, he asked me to please meet him at the gate.

I went and opened it for him, and stood there listening for the sound of his car.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 01:37 AM
I'm going to drag out my favorite Mortarman quote again. It so perfectly explains the way Plan B works.


Plan B is the ULTIMATE in power redistribution. At this point, the BS takes ALL of the power over the marriage. The BS now decides how this marriage will continue, how or if it will continue to exist, and terms by which that marriage will exist. The WS cannot argue, cannot negotiate (that was Plan A), cannot demand a thing.

For the first time I donned my red cape of power and wielded it. It had been available to me the first time around, but I only fingered it a little, not really knowing how to use it. The second time, I put it on and glowed loudly enough to be seen from outer space.

No more negotiating. All that is over. The BS takes the steering wheel, and thinks very carefully about whether to even stop next to the rumpled and disreputable hitchhiker standing by the side of the road, and ask them which direction they are going. And whether to show them the map.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 05:32 AM
Let's find out how long I can drag out this break. I am soooo tired right now! The only reason I haven't already been caught is that Neaksis was kind enough to snuggle the Dervish so he would hurry up and go to sleep, and stop throwing things all over and hitting and jumping and spitting and doing all the things a Dervish does to try and stay awake. And, well, there's nothing snugglier than a sleeping Dervish, now that he's asleep. Neaksis might not be quite all the way asleep, but must be dozing by now.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier, is that while we were talking on the phone as he drove home, he asked me what it would take for me to even be willing to hear him out. I promptly replied that he would have to immediately start being fully honest, or I was done.

I stood by the gate, filled with the knowledge that I was in the right, and that whatever happened next would be of my own choosing.

AJ drove in and parked. When he got out of the car he looked awful, as bad as the first time if that's even possible. A life of sin really does leave its mark on the face, and it certainly showed up on him. He walked toward me and thrust a double handful of cellular phone equipment. "She bought this for me."

There was no change in my exterior, but inside, his battle for me was nearly half-won when he did that. It showed me right there at the start that he was willing to admit to things that I didn't already know about. (I had looked for another phone, but hadn't found it yet.)

We went in and sat down at the dining room table. His composure was pretty well shattered before I began reading PBL #2, and when I got to the Bible verse part that Mimi and Believer had suggested, he broke down. My voice got a little trembly as I read the part about "that you and your children may live", but other than that I showed very little emotion, partly because I had very little emotion left.

He read through my list of boundaries and precautions, and immediately embraced them all. I was concerned that it was a little too quickly, and that he was not necessarily sincere. After all, he had cried all over me once before, too.

I just very nicely stuck with the idea of him leaving for a little while, emphasizing the need to take time to sort this out.

Through his tears, he quoted back at me just about everything I had ever said to him about how separating was not the answer, and how could we ever fix this if we were apart? Aha, so he was listening after all!

All in all, we talked and he begged for four hours. Mom was amazed I had lasted so long. It wasn't vengeance, or even wanting to see him suffer, but after everything he had done, I had to test his sincerity quite extensively before I felt safe taking him back. Hmmmmm. Not exactly safe, but safe enough for temporaries.

The last hour or so he went and sat in his chair, and asked me to sit in his lap. You would have laughed to see us. Of course he was hoping I would snuggle, but I sat there as prim and proper as a nun. Spine erect, Mona Lisa face, dinified barrier up high.

At the end of the four hours I gravely informed him he could stay on a trial basis, as long as the items on that list were attended to quickly, and never broken.

AJ is on his way home now, so I need to go start his supper. There is more to tell that may prove helpful, but that is the end of the major drama. In other words, you don't have to kill me.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 04:13 PM
I kept the Evil Phone on my person, and of course went through and read everything, and looked at all the history. He had only had it about a week; she must have gone out and bought it right after I found the call on his regular phone.

When I asked him to turn over anything else she had given him, he gave me several cards (they were nose-pickingly boring, and only signed with her name, in sharp contrast to the bodice-ripping novelettes he gets from me), and a shirt I had no clue was from her.

She texted the Evil phone several times, first to say hi, then to whine that he was ignoring her, then to ask what he wanted her to do with the things she was off buying when he called to tell her not to come back because I was there. For that I briefly texted her to just take them back.

Because time was so short, we decided to deal with the NC letter and firing issues when we got back. It was a huge leap of faith to take him along without that tied up, but I did it for three reasons. One, he was showing alot of motivation for taking care of the items on my list himself. He was not getting any help from me; I was just sitting back watching. Two, it was only a day or two before we had to leave, and I didn't want to rush through and find out later I had forgotten something, or get over there and have her quit in a huff and try to sabotage our other employees when we were too far away to do anything about it. And three, I knew I could cold-bloodedly kick him out at any point in the process that he balked, and not shed so much as a single tear.

More about the trip later, but I will add that as we were leaving the hotel and AJ was packing the stuff from the bathroom, he realized he had lavendar body wash from her. Thankfully he hadn't used it on me, or I would have killed him; it was just stuck in the bottom of his overnight bag and he saw it then.

So the last remaining present from her wound up in a little trash can in St. Louis.
Well!!! I was just going to post and say that you might not be able to be here this morning before your Dr.'s appointment to deal with your, ah, issues...but I see it won't be necessary!

Call me when you know something. Don't let her admit you to the hospital without me. I'll be awake by then so you can call if you need to--although now that I think about it, I'm not sure what good it would do since I'll be a pedestrian all day today.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 04:27 PM
Oh, don't say the H word to me! I have had enough of the hospital for a while. Surely she wouldn't want to do more than a blood test? Now you're getting me all worried, meep meep.

I'm sure she's just going to want to keep an eye on the situation. If she says bed rest, I'm going to scream and run.

If she says bed rest, I'm going to scream and run.

You can have bedrest Tuesday night! If she did anything involving a hospital it would be a simple D&C to scrape out the inside of your uterus. In all likelihood it would be an outpatient procedure and you'd be home a few hours later. I'm sure Neaksis would LOVE to take care of 8 kids all afternoon.

Oh, yes. It IS done without anesthesia, but at my hospital, being all modern and stuff, we DO give you a bullet to bite on during the procedure. Don't be silly. Of course, they'd put you to sleep. For the procedure. Temporarily. Just don't go to the vet by mistake and tell them your mother said you need to be put to sleep!

I'm putting myself to sleep now. Love you. No meep-meeping now. It'll be OK.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 04:53 PM
That was supposed to be reassuring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 What's wrong with you? Don't you recognize an encouraging word when you hear it? You'll never make it in Montana if you can't be at home on the range!

I'm getting offline now so I can actually call you up and speak by phone. How primitive. How quaint. How retro.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/09/05 05:00 PM
That's good. I was just trying to call you, and came back online to whine at you to call me.
Apparently nobody loves you anymore and you were almost to the 3rd page, and headed for Oblivia (it's in Central America), where you would become an Oblivion. It is I, your mother, my darling endangered firstborn. I will save you. Run into my arms where I can hold you.....and drop kick you through the goal posts of the first page. WHE-E-E-E-E-E-E-E!!

Well, she survived her trip, but has 3 days to shape up and fly right or there will be consequences.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/10/05 04:32 AM
Thank you, charming and considerate mother. I was very touched, right up until the goalpost part. I arrived just in time to see my spectacular landing.

At last, the children are all in bed, all 5 of them, poor Grandpa's tardy supper is cooking, and I have a chance to sit down before I pass out.

My status, in short, is ok for the time being. I am on antibiotics, and we'll see how I am Monday. I had a sonogram that didn't show any gross abnormalities, so it could just be an infection. However, if I am still in this condition on Monday after taking antibiotics all weekend, it will be a trip to the D&C4Me. Oh boy.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/10/05 05:17 AM
I'll copy this over to Mom's thread, too.

My first stop this morning was the OB/GYN's office. In some ways it was hard to be surrounded by hordes of pregnant women, but I tried not to look too much. We didn't have to wait a terribly long time, because they were almost ready to close up for lunch.

I will have to take a picture of the Dervish with his hat. AJ got it for him the other day, and he has not taken it off even to sleep. It is like a multicolored jester hat, but made out of felt. He loves it, but those three prongs coming out the back are one of the most ridiculous things I have seen. So in each place I mention his name, picture this little kid with three brightly colored horns sticking up at least eight inches out of his head.

Dr. B needed to do a bimanual exam, and sent the kids out into the hallway while she poked and prodded me. While I was half nekkid and spread out, the Dervish opened the door from the hallway. "Hi Mama! I want to see!"

The Dr. thought it was either an infection starting up, or that I had maybe retained something after the delivery. She prescribed antibiotics for over the weekend, and set up a sonogram at the hospital only a 1/2 hour from then.

The sonogram lady was clever enough to put me into a gown. We had the only printer for the whole radiology department, apparently, because there she was trying to concentrate on the procedure while the Dervish scampered around waving OTHER PEOPLE'S pictures! "Look at dis one! And dis one!"

The worst was during the vaginal ultrasound. We chased the kids to the other side of the curtain, under protest. The first clue we had that any of them were back was when a little Dervish voice said, "Look, Mama, I see da blood on yer butt!!!" Ack! Go away, little kid! Didn't your mama teach you any manners?!?

While waiting in line at Wal Mart to drop off my prescription, he started chatting with the girl behind us, Heather. He showed her my hospital bracelet. "Look, my mama hafta see da docker..."

You may believe I changed that subject as quickly as I could.

So we'll see by how I am on Monday if I have to have the D&C or not. I'm hoping not, though a little nap sounds kinda nice after my adventure.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/10/05 06:22 AM
St. Louis was really nice. I can see why Dr. Harley and others recommend starting recovery with a nice vacation if possible. It was the first time since the A started that I moved out from under the great dark cloud for a little.

It was a real honeymoon experience, with lots of happy, lovey things, and very little to remind us of the other stuff. On our anniversary we drove up to Chicago, stopping by Lincoln's home in Brookfield, IL. We prayed, we talked, we spent lots of quality time together. While I signed books, or more accurately, sat there looking cute and eager while other authors signed books, he went and pigged out on veggie burgers and veggie corn dogs, chatting with all the vendors in his spare time. We walked around the city, napped in the park, admired the arch, sweltered in the muggy heat, and had a wonderful time.

As all things must, it came to an end, and we had to return and face real life.

AJ is almost home, so I'm going to go spend some quality time. Hope all of you have a great weekend.
From the feminine hygiene products list...

Neak says to say she's OK and will try to be online later...if she's allowed out of bed! Which, being interpreted, is: she's pasty white, subject to dizzy spells, and having what feel to her like heart palpitations even though she can't feel her carotid pulse speed up. In other words, she's just fine!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/11/05 02:56 AM
I don't know if I'll be allowed up to delve too much into the past, but just had to share my big moment from church today. I am such an idiot! Truly, I don't do things like this all the time, but when I do them, I do them well.

It was the first week the new pastor came, not even to preach, but just to meet everybody. I had heard really good things about him from Neaksis, who had heard good things about him from the other members of the board, and lots of other people.

His wife is a beautiful woman. Her first husband was Muslim, and she even went with him to Saudi Arabia (I think Mom said that's where it was). She has written a book about her experiences, I believe the title is "Out From Behind the Veil", and I'm pretty sure her name is Esmie Brannan. Or close to it. Hey, I was rattled by the time I got done, ok?

We chatted a bit, Esmie and I, but they had a previous appointment that afternoon and had to leave, so she excused herself. I shook her hand firmly, saying, "It's SO nice to meet you. I've heard nothing but good things about far."

Sadly, the floor did not open to swallow me, and I was left stammering something about, "Heh heh, not that that implies that I expect to hear something bad about you later!"

Then I walked away with as much dignity as I could muster. It wasn't much.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/12/05 12:36 AM
After we got home from St. Louis, it took me a couple of days to get the NC Box ready. Not that there was so much stuff, but anyone with a Dervish has to work in fits and starts.

The NC letter was very simple. It didn't have more than 3 or 4 sentences, and was pretty textbook: don't contact me ever again, and I will not contact you.

Then there was a letter on corporate stationery, letting her know her services would no longer be needed, as of whatever date, less than a week from then. (It was kind of funny, but while I was getting this together, she emailed me to complain about having to work in Vacaville. It was a very long drive, but also the only place left that she was both qualified for, and would have her back. I very sweetly told her that she wouldn't be there longer than just a few more days. And you know, she wasn't!) The letter also tried to deal with money issues, at least what I knew about right then.

And, as I think I mentioned before, I returned those items she had given him, except for the bodywash, and we all know what happened to it!

I had trouble making it to the post office, delaying the delivery another day, and when I missed mail pickup the next day too, I just had Neaksis take it up and drop it off in person that afternoon when she was picking up her kids from school (their school is just a couple miles down the road from the A house, so it was hardly even out of her way).

She must have gotten The Box right away, because a few hours later I had an email smoldering and steaming in my inbox, aptly entitled, "The Box".



I just got home from [the location in Vacaville], and got the box you dropped off. It is so obvious that you are the one who wrote those letters.

How long do you think it will be before AJ can't deal with your games anymore? It is very sad that you seem to think that love is about controlling someone. If AJ is truly happy with being controlled by you, then so be it. I love him enough to let him go and be happy, do you?

And as far as you letting me go, you should re-think that, you see, you owe me alot of money and because of that without an income I will not be able to pay my house payments or the rest of my bills. I was there for the Corp. when it needed me, but yet you see fit to dump me when I simply am asking for help while you pay back whats owed to me!! I thought you were a better person than that, but I guess not.

I don't know what AJ sees in such a self-centered person.

I need to go now so I can try and get some sleep before I have to go and make the Corp. more money.

As always, Gargamel

Even a man would be able to detect the bitter tone of this. And you know, one of the most beautiful things was that 2 or 3 days later, the place in Vacaville also refused to have her back, and never explained why. (I, for one, would like to have known.) So she was out of a job and applying for unemployment even sooner than I had hoped.

What happened next was not unexpected. Since she was convinced I wrote the letters, and actually I did, (AJ is not known for spelling & grammar, though he has been learning quickly), she assumed incorrectly that AJ did not approve of them. She had no way of knowing that he had dictated them to me, and that I had read them back to him (over the phone, as he was gone right then), and he thought every bit of it was good.

So........she began trying frantically to contact him. You would think that getting her super-secret Evil Phone back with the other stuff would be enough to convince her, but no. She left a dire message on his cell phone, which I had taken over for myself, and bombarded his other business email with short, increasingly agitated letters from her male alter ego, Ross Kirkland. One of the last ones was entitled "Lawyers, Guns, and Money", and contained not-so-veiled references to lawsuits, signed Sincerely, Ross.

'Ross' must have begun to realize by that time that AJ meant business, when all her attempts were met with a deafening silence.

Which reminds me; Believer, I promise promise promise to be good and stick to the point in my NC letter (as soon as she gets the letter from the attorney), but could I at least make it attention to 'Ross'?

And what I would not know for some time is that two days after the delivery of The Box, I became pregnant with Dillon.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/12/05 01:11 AM
Compared to the A, recovery has been mostly a blur. The A was an unending series of distinct wounds seared into me, and R has been more like lapsing in and out of consciousness. Not as painful, but still a struggle.

I read the other day, I think in Jean's thread, about waiting for the other shoe to drop, and that sums it up best for me. Especially since he betrayed me again after his tears and promises, I had little faith - almost none - that it wouldn't just happen again.

So even though I have still been very loving, and putting in my share of effort, a large part of me stayed aloof and separate, just waiting for him to go back to her. It has only been in the last month that I have started to relax a teeny bit, and think that maybe he is really done with her.

When we return, we will find out what went on during the last month of contact, and how Gargamel tried to secure AJ for herself. Well, she was anyway, obviously, but even more during that time.

But for now, duty calls. I'm going to clean for a bit, then the kids are going to the annual ornament exchange party at Neaksis' house. They are still dressed in summer clothes, , and need to change into something more appropriate for November.
I didn't know you had another forum going on here until your mom mentioned it to me. I'm posting so I can add it to my favorites to get here easier! And also, I just glanced over the last few pages really quick, and I just want to thank you for being so brave and sticking with it. Sometimes it puts me to the quick, but then I realize that I am a different person, and Flard still doesn't want to work it out with me--he never had a huge cry session, apologizing, asking to change, to work on our M, just a blank gulf between us that grew further and further until I told him these games had to stop, and that I was moving to Washington, and when he "figured it out" he should contact me then . The more time elapses, the more I see how screwed up it was! Anyway, I am just so proud of you. I am proud that you have written two books now, that you have three beautiful children, that you have such a deep love that drives you ever onward. I have to say, out of all the people I know, I admire you the most because you are winning. You may be lost at times in pain, but you are still winning. Your red cape is still on.
ps awaiting pictures of Dervish and his jester hat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neak - I'm always reading, but sometimes not commenting.
I love you, Gell. And I love Flard. And I'm so sorry. As I type this, I'm listening to the song He Loved Me with a Cross, and with tears streaming down my face I want to tell's not over yet. Jesus isn't done, and when He is, everything will be put right again forever. Keep close to Him, Keep on being the brave, beautiful girl you are. And pray for our lost Flard, as we pray for you both.

I sent this to AJ the day he decided to "abandon" Gargy and return to his marriage...

I'd like the chance to sit down and talk with you sometime, but take a deep breath and relax. This isn't it!! I just want to take a couple of minutes before I go to sleep to encourage you as sincerely and as strongly as I can to take, very seriously indeed, this chance to rebuild your marriage. Your wife loves you a lot, but she is also at a place in her head and in her life where she is not only ready to move on without you if she has to, but she knows that she's capable of it, as well. Very few women would've done what she's done for you over the past 6 months. She has shown true Christianity in action in a way I don't really ever remember seeing done before. (Not that it's never happened, but it's at least never happened where I was watching.) In that whole time, I never, EVER heard her say an angry unkind word about you, not even after the time you called her (in a rage) "the lowest (copulating) piece of (bowel excretions) on the planet." She has upheld you in front of your children, who still think their daddy's just as wonderful in June as they did in January before all the feces hit her rotating blades. Not just because she's my daughter, but because she's a kind and wonderful human being, I am so desperately hoping that you mean it this time when you say you won't hurt her again; that you will put a proper value on who and what she is; and that you will also cherish this opportunity to salvage your home and family, and your wife.

You are an extremely fortunate man. I hope you know that, and remember it always. It would be too bad if the only way you could discover it was if it were gone. I will be praying for you both, and although I'm not going to force myself or my advice on you, you can know that I am not only willing, but even anxious, to help you out if you will let me.

God bless you, my dear.


Thank you for your kind words. I'd love to hear "I'm so sorry" from Flard instead of you but seeing as he rarely says sorry, and when he does, he says, "I'm sorry YOU FEEL THAT WAY" instead of owning up to his own mistakes . He called tonight, penitent, but never saying sorry. When he asked, "Are you still mad at me?" I said, "Yes" and he laughed, but he was at least polite which was a change from last week. The little punk. He can make me so angry sometimes. He wanted to talk about the papers--supposedly he's doing it tomorrow! And I'll be relieved. I know you probably don't want to hear that, but I will be. By the time the papers go through, it will be almost 2 years since we split. But we will still pass our 5 year mark still married. But I will be moving into my beautiful new house in Olympia, getting ready to work for a Senator so I'll keep my chin up jolly fine, I hope. Flard is a sweet boy. Just utterly not with it in the relationship department. You know, I would have thought he would have learned SOMETHING in the past two years on his own, but nope. I don't think he has, besides that he's an antagonistic atheist. I hate dealing with him anymore--he's just so difficult now. I guess I better go. Talking about him is depressing! All the stories on this forum are depressing, but in stark contrast to the stories are the people, who are quite amazing and resiliant. Lemonman's story just shocks me every time I think about it, and Neak's recovery story makes me want to cry, and especially getting to see inside her brain as she fights to stay afloat, and all the Dervish's escapades, and of course the hilarious dry humor of Neaksis where she interjects with a one-liner now and then, and the verbose "lessons learned in life" by you, which I have tried to turn into my own 12-step program to live a happy life where I accept all those stomach punches. Drat it, I wish my paper could write itself. I'm too highly distracted tonight. Love you guys. A big hug to everyone on this forum.

And I'll be relieved. I know you probably don't want to hear that, but I will be. By the time the papers go through, it will be almost 2 years since we split.

I don't blame you for feeling relieved. Who wouldn't, after all that time? Lemonman's a great surgeon, but if it took him 2 years to complete a surgery (without anesthesia, no less), his patient would be glad that have that over, too! I accept what is now because I have no choice, but if I've learned anything in my long, verbose life it's this: The only constant is change. Even if you have to wait for it because nothing's changing!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/12/05 05:45 PM

I'm glad you're relieved it's almost over. I'm not such a rabid blood-family partisan that I can't see how far Flard has his head up his never mind. If there are sides to be on, I'm on yours, but with actually being against him, mind you. He makes me want to bang my head against a wall. You are so sweet anyway!

In addition to getting ready for the appraisal, I now have a teacher's meeting tomorrow, since we missed last month's meeting, and the new one is actually during the same time the appraisal is scheduled, (thank you Neaksis), and the doctor actually does want to see me again today, even though I am getting better. I am probably not going to be around here much today.

So I will just say that, unlike the first part of the A, where they talked about me a lot, but found plenty of their own boring stuff to chat about, during the second part they seemed to have talked about almost nothing but me, lol. It's enough to swell my ego, it is.
As soon as the appraisal is over, or your surgery is finished, whichever comes first, you have my permission to continue your story.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/13/05 10:43 AM
Why, thank you. I believe I will.
No need to thank me. It was nothing. Really. But then, somehow I suspect you already know that.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/14/05 10:47 PM
One of the interesting things about recovery, is that I remember many things word for word, sometimes even dates, while the whole thing is a big, icky blur to AJ.

He remembers the big stuff. He knows he betrayed me, he knows he screwed around with someone who was not his wife, and he kinda remembers being a bit mean to me once in a while. Actually, I think he remembers more now than right afterward, but still it isn't that much.

If I ask a specific question, sometimes he can answer it right then, and sometimes he has to think for a day or two. There are a few things he hasn't even remembered after thinking about it, but small stuff that I don't stress about. For example, "On this date and time when you went this place and told me this, did you actually go alone like you said?" And because he has been honest about the big stuff, and done his best to answer questions about the little stuff, it makes it easier to trust him on the other little stuff.

And sometimes something will come up in a conversation that reminds him of a snippet he had forgotten about until that moment, which is what happened this morning.

For anyone who didn't already see over on Mom's thread, I saw Gargamel in town yesterday. I have not wanted to underestimate her and assume she doesn't know what my car looks like, though I really didn't think she had paid too much attention. After the little talk AJ & I had this morning, it is obvious that I was mistaken, so I am glad I have been trying to be more aware of the cars around me.

This morning I told AJ I had seen her.

***Note: this is another big difference between Failed Recovery #1 and So-Far-So-Good Recovery #2. The first time, I did everything I could to prevent him from knowing the times she tried to email him, or when she contacted me, though I expected him to tell me everything. I wanted to protect him from being tempted back. The second time, I received some good advice that I have never regretted taking, and I have told him every time there has been contact. He doesn't want to see for himself when she emails me, but just takes my word for it if she does something spiteful. It keeps things so much more open between us when I am not hiding anything from him for any reason, no matter how noble a reason it might be.***

So anyway, I told him. Usually he does not want to know any more than I tell him, but this time he asked where I saw her. (He was very nervously working up in that end of the county yesterday, thankful that he was with his boss and in his boss' truck. Another digression, but the wages of sin are hard to pay, especially when you have repented and the consequences still invade every aspect of your daily life, and the lives of your loved ones, as well. It's so much better to do the right thing in the first place!) I told him where, and not much other detail than that part of the time she was ahead of me, and part of the time I was ahead of her, and then she turned off.

I told him I didn't think she paid too much attention to my car, and that even if she did, that since I barely know what she looks like, that she probably wouldn't recognize me, either.

"She knows what you look like, though."

That made me just a little nervous. I asked how that could be, since I had only seen her twice. It has been almost a year since my one and only glimpse of her face, and at the motel she kept her head turned and I never got a good look. Even that was a long time ago, late March.

He had to think about it, but said that there were quite a few times where she told him that she had seen me in town, and where I had been. (If she was hoping to catch me meeting with another man, she was sadly mistaken.)

As he thought about it, it didn't take long for the implications to sink in, that she must have followed me around any number of times. (He would probably have realized it when she first told him - he's not stupid - but oh wait, he wasn't thinking of me at all then.) It gives me major shudders to think of her stalking me around town, skulking in the aisles, perhaps even standing next to me in line, memorizing all of my features, and all while I innocently went about my business, unaware.

But still, we learn three very important lessons from all this. One I elaborated on above, that full honesty goes both ways.

Two, you might have picked up on from reading about honesty, that your WS genuinely may not remember some things about the A. At first, I flat-out believed AJ was lying to me when he said he didn't remember, and it took lots of time, and verifying everything I could, before I even mentally gave him the benefit of the doubt. It would have harmed our R greatly if I had just insisted I thought he was a liar, so I kept silent and just checked and checked and checked, without him knowing everything I was checking. As I saw a pattern of truthfulness emerging, it helped with the few things I wasn't able to tell for sure.

And three, don't underestimate the OP. Don't obsess about them either, like I'm trying really hard not to do after finding that out, but don't underestimate them. Don't think they are the nice people they seem to be, or think you can trust them. DEFINITELY don't have anything to do with them, unless there is an overwhelming reason (such as OC) to do so. Don't hate them, and God asks us to pray for our enemies, but recognize that it is deadly poison to allow them any place in your life here on earth.

And if you keep bumping into them until you can't take it any more, MOVE TO MONTANA!!!!!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/14/05 11:53 PM
As long as I'm NOT OBSESSING about any OP at all in the world, I might as well tell you a few of the things I remember AJ said they talked about. I'll add in more later if I remember.

Disclaimer: Although AJ had a real eye-opener to her character, and began to see the myriad ways in which he was manipulated by Gargamel, he takes full responsibility for all his actions, and does not in any way blame her for what he did, or try to use her manipulations as an excuse for breaking NC, or anything of the sort. He is 100% accountable for him, and he knows it.

One thing she did is try to lure him ever deeper into deception. As soon as I found out about the first phone contact, she went and bought him an affair phone, which he had had for about a week before he gave it to me. She left it at her job site the day before he went in to replace her on her day off.

She tried to convince him to let her have someone call the company and order his protective services for a trip to Hawaii, and she would actually pay him so it would look legit, as if it were a real assignment and not a gigolo job. He told her I would never 'let' (ha!) him go on an assignment like that unless I came, too.

She tried to convince him to take another loan from her, this time for $30,000. Knowing if she did she would have him in her pocket forever. There's no telling for sure, but I think if I hadn't rained on the parade that day at the other job site, that he would have accepted pretty soon.

Every chance she got, she tried to undermine me on every level. She would do it indirectly, by trying to insinuate herself into his life and be indispensible. She tried to do it directly, by smearing my character. She told him that I probably had a bank account that he didn't know about, and had funneled company funds into it. She was VERY willing to check the books for him, and if there were any discrepancies, to find them for him. She told him I probably had something going on with a male friend of ours, with whom I had done several music albums.

The day AJ suggested to me that I put her in charge of the employee schedules, she had told him to ask me. (I pointed out to him how clever it was of her to try and put me in a win-win situation for her. If I said yes, she was that much more involved in the company, and that much closer to him. If I said no, which I did, I looked like a [female dog].)

She predicted that, since we weren't really in love, and only staying together for the sake of the children, that we wouldn't last even six months. AJ foolishly tried to convince her that he really was in love with me, (sneaking around, lying, and talking to his mistress was a funny way to show it, but hey, it's all part of the fog), that he loved being with me, and loved making love to me.

Apparently they had a bit of an argument over that last one, with her trying to tell him he didn't enjoy boinking his wife, and him trying to tell her that he did. He went waaaaay overboard, even describing in rather too much detail the different sexual activities and positions (hopefully not the sink ) that he and I enjoy. To which OF COURSE she responded, "Well, I'll do all that for you, too....."

It is so ludicrous when I try to picture them discussing all this. He was so deeply fogged that the irony of the whole thing never occurred to him. I think he would realize it now, if he could stand to think about it.

She was the one who tried to tell him I was probably sleeping around on him, too. Every seed of doubt she sowed found fertile soil in his twisted little WS brain. But by the end, when she started accusing me of stealing from him and embezzling from the company, the fog cleared enough to where he began to question that, at least in his own mind. I'm flattered. A lifetime of unimpeachable character and unquestioned honesty, and he manages to at least question whether I have suddenly turned into a criminal.

Once the second NC letter was sent, the only way she had left to directly try and break us up was through me. And she has tried, very hard. Several times she has almost succeeded.

AJ & I both thought separately, even before we shared, that part of her plan is to make me so sick of him, and of the A aftermath, that I will give him the boot. It has been very tempting more than once, but that is a story for another day. Maybe several days.
I'm putting my eyeballs on the spit, and giving the rotisserie handle a good spin!


P.S. If she knows what you look like, what do you think the odds are that she recognized you checking her out yesterday?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 01:08 AM
Sigh. Excellent.

But if she did, I bet it scared her.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 01:11 AM
If I have to look over my shoulder all the time, so should she.
Neak - You're getting famous. One of the posters here on the emotional board is talking about your "talents".
And believe me, it's not your singing, cooking, or writing.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 02:43 AM

Did you hear my jaw hit the floor?

I thought and thought, but really, that list leaves out only one thing...

Psst.............where do I find the post?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 02:48 AM
Never mind it, I found it.
Lots and lots of practice?????
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 04:50 AM

You know what they say: If at first you don't succeed, try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try and try again.

Then the next day...

And believe me, it's not your singing, cooking, or writing.

I'm not really her mother! I was just pretending. Yes, I was! All this time, too.

Well, Neak, they say no publicity is bad publicity. Sure hope they're right! Kind of an unexpected fame for the virginal bride of a few years ago, isn't it? Maybe we can add it to the back cover blurb of your next book!

Whoever was feeling bad, shouldn't. Neak is way more imaginative, uninhibited, to say nothing of limber and acrobatic, than I ever dreamed of being. Not all of us can be pretzels, you know!

Actually, I think that's in the Proverbs31 description of a good woman. Let me check it out.
Odd. I don't remember the word "pretzel" being in the Bible anywhere at all. It must've lost something in the translation!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 06:15 PM
I believe I can shed some light on the subject.

Verse 13: She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

Verse 17: She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

And if a woman expends great effort to be a really super noble wife, the following blessing from Verse 31 will come true:

Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.

Who'd've ever thought which of my works would make it as a subject of conversation at the city gate?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/05 06:21 PM
To give you some idea of how far we've come over the years, let me tell you about our wedding night.

I went into our walk-in closet to put on the pretty nightie Mom had given me for the occasion. I was nearly ready, but AJ got impatient and fetched me out before I was quite perfect.

We lived in a little upstairs studio apartment, and our bed was this ugly green couch that folded open to sleep on, and we had put a mattress on top of that to make it more comfortable.

It was all very fast, straight missionary position, and someone (not me) was done very quickly, and fell immediately asleep.

I got up quietly and ate our wedding supper alone, and mildly frustrated.

My only thought was, "Well, that was nice, but is that it?"
Of all the frank, even intimate, things this stupid family has posted on this board, I almost think this is the piece de resistance. Better keep him off your thread till this unflattering confidence fades back a few pages or so! Not your average guy's favorite anecdotal reputation--he was fast, and there wasn't much to it.

I realize he has apparently atoned over the years, but still...

I'll help it disappear.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 12:58 AM
I'll bury it in a flood of words.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 12:59 AM
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 01:08 AM
I actually intended to do a cute little treatise on exposure today, rather than my oopsidental adventure.
Moving this on down the page.

Of course with all the "practicing", I hope things have improved.
Hey I saw a little kid at the store today who reminded me of the Dervish. He was "helping" his mom, and in the middle of it he said very loudly "Knock it off you two!" Trouble was, it was only him.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 03:56 AM
It must've been the Dervish's identical twin cousin.

Yes, things improved with practice. Even by the next day life was much better.

The funny thing was when, a few weeks later, I was having my first ultrasound, the conception date came out to the day of our wedding.

So, all's quiet on the Western front? I'm so happy that you have taken a stand on NC with that person.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 04:01 PM
Me too. For the first time since all this started, it's beginning to feel more like just the two of us, instead of having an ungodly presence standing between us. (The third party might still be in the same room, but at least farther away and easier to ignore.)

It really does get better, eventually.

Today is the Christmas play, so I'm not sure how much I'll be around here, but I will be thinking of everybody.
I hope that this is the end of this and you don't hear anything more. Enjoy the Christmas play.
Just wanted to say that I am enjoying your thread and posts. Have even read aloud some of your passages to FWH who is still in a state of disbelief of his own actions while he was lost in the fog.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/05 05:48 PM
B, the play is going to be a real humdinger. Wish you lived close enough to come, but I'll tell you all about it.

Sleepless, thank you for letting me know. Your poor FWH, and mine too! It's hard for any sane person to understand a WS - make that impossible - and once sanity returns they just can't comprehend what they have done and how they did it.

AJ still feels so bad, and says he will have to live with this the rest of his life, which is so true, but it's still easier for him to let it go and focus on the present.

Telling about this has been so cleansing. What happened still hurts alot, and deeply, but the urgency is gone. I can feel that I am knitting back together. I really like this thread, and I think even once I'm done talking about the past that I will still hang onto it for updates or whatever. It tells the story, but without the raw pain of my early posts. And if those who are still stuck in Gehenna can gain insight into the 'dark side' that makes me feel even better.

I think I have said before that AJ, although he does not want to read this for himself, is also glad that our experience can benefit others.

I haven't forgotten. Still to come: Exposure, and Dealing With the OW. (In the meantime, we can always just chat. )
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/17/05 06:55 AM
I was just musing today, not for the first time, of the so-common ILYBINILWY, which I never heard directly. It was one of the very few variances from the WS script, but he said so many other things that added up to that, that it is a moot point.

Even from the beginning, while he was still mostly cold, he would say things like, "A part of me will always love you." But then turn right around and say, "I feel much closer to her than to you." And talk about what a good friend she was to him, and how she was there when I was not.

Life is 180 degrees different now. He has never specifically taken any of those things back, but then I doubt he would remember saying them even if I had a video of those words coming out of his lips. But now it's "I love you with all my heart", and "You are my best friend". He is a new person from what he was only a few short months ago.

With Recovery #1, it was like AJ looked out the peephole and saw God standing there, but just said to himself, "That looks like a really nice guy. It would be helpful to talk to Him, and I know I need some help. Yes, I think I actually might talk to Him." And then he walked in the other room and turned on the TV. Recovery #2, AJ actually opened the door then and there, and hasn't looked back.

We pray together often, and it brings us closer to each other. If I had known how helpful it was going to be, I would have included it on my long list of boundaries and precautions. I would not be willing to do without it, now. More than any other single thing, hearing my husband lift me up in prayer nurtures such loving feelings for him. (Second place would probably go to the backrubs and other verbal/nonverbal gestures of affection.)

We take turns reading to each other from the Bible, or other inspirational books. We have animated discussions about the fascinating things we learn. It is a time of bonding like nothing else.

For any of you that are Christians, I just can't recommend strongly enough the importance of making God the center of your recovery. His Spirit will smooth the way, and make it easier to travel. There are still plenty of bumps left, but you just lean a little harder on Him when you come to them. Don't pass up the opportunity for the greatest blessing your marriage can know. Even if it feels awkward at first, it is well worth it.
Posted By: Ahuman Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/17/05 08:11 AM
Knocking. Pause. Knocking.

(A door opens slightly. A head appears)

Excuse me ladies. I hate to interrupt your conversation. And Ms. Neak, I hesitate getting you off topic and encouraging an onslaught of frustrated posts, but there is a poster that could really benefit from your encouragement / advice.

I am unsure if you have time, but her name is Tryingtogetit. It just seems less people are posting for her lately (possibly discouraged by her initial paralyzed response to her situation or possibly just holiday-busy). She is trying to prepare to do a plan B—and no one is responding.

You seem to have dealt with a similar cake-eater-crisis, so maybe you could help her, between your kid corralling, husband handling and recent salt mining, that is?


(A door closes gently.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/17/05 03:03 PM
I'll pop over for a short visit this morning, and try to have a nice long chat later today when I get back. Thanks, Ahuman.
KKK just popping in to see if there is more of the rest of the story–specifically what remains of how you dealt with OW since having a time with FWH’s FOW myself right now. Sure you’re busy, it’s that time of the year and all, to be so, so will bid my time and check back .

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 06:12 AM
Hi again Sleepless,

For contrast, I am very Sleepy right now. I'm not going to try and wade into the morass of post-A OW problems tonight, but my thoughts on exposure are much shorter.

Also, as I was reading tryingtogetit's thread yesterday, a few other memories popped up. AJ was never so far gone as to just blatantly tell me, "I'll be staying the night with Gargamel," but he did talk to each of us in front of the other.

With hindsight, I see I could have taken even more opportunities to make him miserable in the A, I mean, to reinforce my boundaries, but I guess I did ok with what knowledge I had.

It never occurred to me that I could insist that he not talk to her in front of me, or Messenger her on the computer. If it had occurred to me to even mention it here on MB, everyone would have told me, but that was only the last 2 1/2 weeks anyway.

He was always very uncomfy talking to one of us in front of the other, and tried to clip it as short as possible. In most cases, he would do his best to sound nonchalant and businesslike, so the one he was with would not suspect it was the other. I can't believe he thought I was so stupid; his voice and mannerisms, everything would change when it was her so I always knew, even when I couldn't prove it. Him thinking I was that stupid served me well for gathering intel, though.

On one occasion, when he called her on the business line, I picked the phone up after him and called redial. When she answered, I asked if AJ's uncle was there, then very innocently said I must have the wrong number. She called AJ up very promptly to complain, ha ha. Orchid could have told me all sorts of wonderful things to say, but I hadn't met Orchid yet.

Then there was the time I was riding in the squad car with him and she called. At one point in his short answers, he said with barely controlled impatience, "Yes, she is." That was one of the few times he came out and told me it was her, because he said she was very unhappy that he had let me come with him.

The b-r-r-r-i-n-g sound of a new Messenger window opening still makes me want to break things and commit general mayhem. Right at first, when she would send him a message or try to chat, and I would be sitting there massaging his shoulders or whatever, I would try and make myself stay. But it didn't take long till I would just get up and leave the room. Every single time there was a brrring and I marched out, he would call, "Where are you going?" As if he really expected me to stay there and minister to him while he chatted with his girlfriend. Well, actually he DID expect me to.

Once I started doing that, he didn't spend nearly as much time chatting, at least while I was around. Apparently he liked massages better than chats.

But about exposure. In my case, I had to do very little. My family guessed, and I told his mom, but in my pre-MB days I begged her not to tell him I had told her anything.

By the time I began learning about exposure, I was already getting calls from numerous employees, and even AJ's older friends, asking me what was going on, and if the rumors they had heard were true: that he had a girlfriend and was divorcing me. I was happy to set them straight; yes he had a girlfriend, and no we were not divorcing and I still hoped to reconcile....just the two of us.

Very few people who would be the natural exposure targets didn't know by that time. So many people knew, that I thought AJ & Garg must be all but holding hands on duty. Some of the people had even heard that AJ was going around introducing to her as his girlfriend.

At that, I effectively gave up on exposure in my case, figuring that if they were telling people themselves, nothing I could add would make an impact on them. I saw it making a difference for others who were doing it, but just thought AJ was too far gone.

I was not to learn differently until just after the A ended (the 1st time).

A few days into R#1, AJ asked me how many people knew. As I began to list them, his jaw dropped, and he said that really bothered him. I replied that once I found out he was introducing her to people as his girlfriend, that I began talking about it freely with anyone who asked.

He said they had been so careful, and so professional around everyone. (Apparently he thought Everyone was as stupid as his wife.) And they had gone to great lengths to hide their relationship, or so they thought.

The effects were even more clearly seen in one of my few conversations with her, when I practically heard her claw her way up the wall when I started telling her who knew. (She asked.) She had the same little song and dance of how careful they had been. They both obviously thought they were extremely discreet, when actually they might as well have taken out a billboard ad.

So the big lesson here is, don't underestimate exposure. Looking back, I can see that if I had been able to wait it out a while longer, until the time when they began finding out that people knew and strongly disapproved of both of them, I think the A would have quickly imploded at that. Even in a case where it looked at first like it was useless, the shocks were still being felt more than a week after the A ended.

But at the same time, I don't regret at all just getting it over with. The 3+ months had taken so much out of me, that I could not have waited longer regardless. Which is why exposure needs to start just as soon as possible, so it will have the maximum time to work before the BS plunges into Plan B. I was at the end of my endurance, and time was one thing I did not have much of. (Try to picture busting an A and having a Dervish all at the same time, even with such a great help as Neaksis, shudder shudder. It's a wonder I'm not in a straightjacket! )

AJ is more at ease with it now. While he hasn't gone so far as to get up in front of church, he has told most of his friends, and talked openly with his family about it.

(Maybe I should submit an article to the paper, dealing with infidelity. "After my H's A with a local woman..." LOL!)

AJ realizes he is a new creature in Christ, and has no more need to be ashamed of his past, as long as it is the past. "For such were some of you, but you were washed..." While he regrets his choices every day, he is glad for those opportunities he has had, both with friends and family, to offer a word of warning about a path that looks so innocent at the beginning, but leads to destruction. Already he has helped at least two people in our immediate circle.

That is the best kind of exposure.

Thank you so much for your next instalment. I will wait patiently for the next. I agree with you on exposure. I found out myself about 1 mth after the A had broken off. I had not found MB by then but, I somehow instinctively knew exposure was a good thing. Also learned fwh was so lost in fog that he was introducing OW as his girlfriend too–and amazed by the number of people that already knew including two of my brothers who did not tell me to protect my feelings, and at least one of them was trying to talk sense into him. The other brother, well I learned just a three weeks ago that he is involved in an A himself. So now I am horrified to think they exchanged stories. Sad part is I was not talking either--he'd asked for a S and I accepted his denial that there was someone else and let him go, heartbroken, I took dd and myself off to our lakehouse to hide away for the summer. Not happy with brothers about this–not telling me--even if their hearts were in the right place-- wish they would have told me. But the worse is that my ds, 18, was actually introduced to her as such. No he did tell mom either--again to protect me- and this put ds in a very hard place and we are still dealing with issue of.

Hugs & God bless,
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 03:50 PM
Sleepless, how far into recovery are you?
Not sure if I can say we are actually in recovery as yet. A ended Aug 8th, DD was Sept 6th, fwh had a breakdown, Sept 15th, lost all memory of her and affair and all details of life and business– last memory is Feb 18th, remembers walking through the gates of Daytona. He can not deny that it happened, evidence, paper trail and ow continued attempts to infiltrate makes this impossible. We are working on our marriage of course but I am still struggling to find details of and get past it. In the days after dd he was talking and being truthful but only a general manner, I suspect to protect my feelings. And naive and dumb and in shock, I was not asking many questions then.

Still dealing with OW, so salt in wounds there hence my interest in how you handled yours. Sent no contact letter after numourous attempt to get her to stop calling about 4 weeks ago. Was beginning to breath hoping it was finally over. But she called the 15th–at midnight to leave another message–do not answer her calls–but she leaves messages. The message left that time remarked after the fact that she still desperately wanted and needed him in her life that progressed to a notion that there was something growing inside her–that how she worded it and it would need a father. Doubt this is true–yet another lie like her suicide threats and even notions of being arrested--think yet another desperate attempt by her to garner his attention--and has been going on 4 plus months since last physical otherwise contact with him and think that if she did have this bit of a weapon she would have welded it before since she has tried everything else, but now need to prepare myself for this worse case scenario. I rose to her bait this time I am afraid and returned her call–she was quick to pick up no doubt thinking it was him–I blasted her after her sweet hello, with a three point call of my own, 1. Reminding her as she seems intent on denying the fact that he has a wife never mind that fact the he loves me, 2. Do not call. 3 and if there was something growing, a paternity/ DNA test would be required. She retaliated with yet another message left since I refused to pick up a number of calls, with a message left were in she actually blasted fwh for hiding behind his wife and made no mention again of the something growing inside her, ringing off with yet another notion of her desire to see and talk and be with him again. First time she has ever attacked him–before her calls are always sweet and sappy and tearful to him for his return to her, and attacks--messages left-- are always directed at me and my peace of mind- so am taking this as a plus. Have consulted vets here and will be drafting yet another no contact letter to her and send it registered. I know fwh is upholding his end of the deal, but she refuses to give up and am to the point of acknowledging may well need to go through law enforcement to get harassment charges and restraining order filed.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 05:10 PM
If she has not respected previous NC letters, she will not respect any further ones. Perhaps you just want the certified one in order to have the documentation, but don't expect it to do any good.

Personally, I would go straight to the restraining order, and change your phone # today. At least for me, the phone company changed it the first time for free, since I had received unwanted calls, and if I had to change it again they would charge about $30. Having it unlisted will make it harder for her to get, and if she still looks it up you can have phone service changed into the name of a nice, helpful relative that she doesn't know about.

Change all your information that she might be able to get ahold of, cell phones, emails, everything.

Easy for me to say, but don't worry about any small packages until (IF) they actually arrive. Some OW will just do anything to try and hold on.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 05:14 PM
And amnesia? Wow. It's hard to say how much he would have remembered anyway, but I know there have to be a lot of questions you would have wanted answered first.

Oh, and my opinion is that you are in recovery as long as your H is NC and wanting to work on the M, but OW is severely hampering your efforts, and will continue to do so as long as she is in the picture.

Already he has helped at least two people in our immediate circle.


P.S. I'll be calling you when I wake up this afternoon, darling!
Thank you for your help Neak. The phone is a problem because it is a cell/ business phone. No way to block either because if do so limits to address/phone book and new jobs mean new numbers/ calls coming in. His mental state is/ was such that only up till recently has he even had access to it. Myself and employees were fielding business calls for him. Reading your posts has given me a possible notion to exchange business cell phones. I hate to bring employees any more into, this our private affairs– though the captains of his company already know. And I do think his right hand man– would be more than willing to exchange numbers/ cells with and capable of dealing with calls normal directed to him–and or divert them to fwh new cell number. In fact just talked to fwh about doing this. He is agreeable. Was not at first since he does not think it is a problem since he does not answer her calls. But I disagree–do you think me wrong in this? Especially after her last message left would think he would be inclined to listen to her messages and do not want her to get to him. Any advice would be appreciated. Hugs
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 05:37 PM
It's no secret for an anonymous forum. One was his little brother, who though he has never admitted anything, I would bet anything was having at least an EA, but is now being attentive again to his fiancee and child. The other was a friend who confided that he enjoyed the admiration of another woman who was not his wife. AJ strongly advised him to focus on his wife and cut off the relationship with the other person, and told him a bit of where a seemingly innocent thing like that can lead. So far so good with the friend, too.

It's no secret for an anonymous forum.

Yes, we Neaks DO value our anonymity, don't we?


P.S. Good night. I'm not even going to wait and see what you answer, because I already know where THAT leads!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 05:45 PM
Hugs back atcha. I do not think you are AT ALL overreacting to this. It would be good if one of the captains could switch, especially if he were willing to be quite stern with her if she called. (If you had the phone, she would probably call even more.)

At least in my experience, contact with the OW will grow more and more toxic for you as time goes on, and it's bad enough now. Your H needs to accept this, even if he doesn't understand, and should support you in moving whatever mountains need to be moved.

His biggest job in R is to protect you from additional hurt - it will take plenty of time and energy just getting over the hurt you have already suffered. That is hard enough without adding a fresh onslaught of reminders of what he did, and continually bringing up the feelings of resentment toward him, because his bad choices put you in this predicament.

It is a vicious cycle that will not be broken until you take her out. Of the loop, that is.

I am totally with you on this one.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 07:44 PM
The long progression of Gargamel from misunderstood victim to vicious predator reminds me very much of C.S. Lewis' "The Screwtape Letters". 'Uncle Screwtape' went from being a kindly, avuncular advisor, to devouring the soul of Wormwood and savoring every morsel. Screwtape was exactly the same sort of evil being at the beginning as at the end, but it took time to reveal the full depths of his perfidy.

(This is not meant to be a commentary as to where Gargamel will end up. God will be her judge, and I pray that he will save her. As I told AJ, the fact that I feel the need to ask God that if He does save her, to please at least put her mansion on the other side of the city is a flaw in me, not in the Great Plan.)

The first couple of emails from her after NC Letter #1 on May 5, were angry and lashing out, but I tolerantly () overlooked that. It was only understandable, as the poor thing had been terribly hurt by my awful husband; trapped by his inability to choose only one woman. () Everything was poor, poor Gargamel, and wicked, wicked husband.

Even during the A, I defended her to my MIL, who for some reason seemed to think that she was amoral and sleazy. That mindset carried over into the excessively sympathetic way I treated her.

After she wrote how she was going to have to call in sick for several of her shifts, because she couldn't keep food down, I dropped off some popsicles, fresh fruit, and crackers, because I felt bad and blamed AJ for how awful she was feeling.

Her first letter was a real eye-opener, more so now that I am not surrounded by wisps of BS fog. I have put it on here a couple of times before, but I think it fits into this part here very well.


Neak-(and you to AJ if you care to read on)

Thank you for trying to sympathize with my situation. I am going to tell you some things for two reasons, one to help me get my feelings out, two maybe it will help you understand what AJ and I had. I'm sorry if some of this is hurtful to read.
I am not expecting you or AJ to respond to this, again I just need to get it out.

I have so many thoughts and feelings as I'm sure you both do. It should be easier for you two because you have eachother. As for me, it will be very difficult because I have only a few people I consider friends here, I spent all of my time at [the job where we met].

My relationship with AJ isn't something that my friends know about,(they just knew we were good friends and I was helping with the business) therefore I cannot talk to them about it. Only three people know about it, 1 person in CA, 2 in WI, and 1 in MO. As far as my roommates go, they don't know AJ is married, I told them that AJ broke up with me because he didn't feel he had time for a commitment.

I am going to due my very best to fight the depression that I am feeling, but loosing your best friend and lover all at once is very difficult. You see, when I needed a friend Jack was there for me, with words of encouragement and advise. I no longer have that. After my job interview, I sent AJ a text message telling him I was done and asking if he was up yet. The only response I got was "check your e-mail"

As I'm sure you have figured out, I was devastated to read that e-mail. Even though AJ made it very clear he wanted no contact with me, I wanted to be there to comfort him, you leaving with the children crushed him. But I respected his wishes and have not spoke to him since then except through the e-mails which you also read.

I want you to know that when AJ and I began to see eachother it was as friends only, and over time we became closer. AJ truly believed that you and him could not work out the differences you have. I had no reason not to believe him, so we began to see where our friendship could lead. It lead us down a path which changed all of our lives. I don't know if you have ever heard the song "The Dance" by Garth Brooks. In case you haven't, here is the part of the song that I can not get out of my mind. "I'm glad I didn't know, the it all would end, the way it all would go, our lives are better left to chance, I could have missed the pain, but I'd a had to miss the dance." The "dance" with AJ was worth the pain I must endure now. For now, AJ and I must go on living separate lives, until you two figure out if you can fix your marriage, and if you do I hope that someday we can be friends again.

I was told long ago, if love something you can set it free and it will come back to you, if it doesn't then it was never really yours. You have forced AJ to be free of me by using the children, I'm not going to lie, I never do, it is my hope that AJ will come back to me someday. I know your hope is the same, that he will stay with you and I don't blame you for that, he is a wonderful, caring man and any woman would be lucky to have him.

I know it must have been hard for you to know that we were together, just as it was hard for me knowing he went home to you every night and you slept together.

What kept me wanting to be with AJ was the closeness I felt. You should understand that, I'm sure at one point you and AJ had that. Never in my life have I felt that way, and I was in a relationship for 8 years.

When AJ and I were in public, we did not act any differently than two friends. When we were conducting business for the Corp. we both acted very professionly. Neither AJ or I would conduct ourselves in a manner that would hurt the Corp. I'm sure you know the great lengths I have gone to help the Corp. both with my time and finances.

I know you think that everytime we were together that we had sex, that couldn't be further from the truth. A majority of our time together was doing things for the Corp. Furthermore, when we did have sex, he used a condom. And you somehow think we had @n@l sex....we never did, it is a personal -embarrassing joke, ask him to explain it to you.

Thank you for letting me get these feeling out, its really hard when you have no one to talk to.

I hope that even those of you who read this and have WS's of your own, are able to clearly see a number of gigantic gaps in the logic here. Even for me, when I was not able yet to step back and get a clearer look - but I felt I had to somehow explain myself to her and clear up the misunderstandings so she wouldn't think I was a bad person. (I come from a long line of over-explainers anyway, lol.) I hope you can also see some glaring gaps in my "logic". WHO CARES WHAT THE OP THINKS OF YOU???????

I wrote her back a horrendously long letter, telling what in our M led up to the A, explaining that I really hadn't been using the children against AJ, yadda yadda. I closed with this:


This is getting really long, and I have to go get busy again, but if you need to vent, feel free. Even if something is hard for me to hear, I don't mind. I'm not some cream-fed b----- sitting here gloating at your misfortune. I'm a tired, worn-down, sad wraith who knows full well what you're feeling, and I only wish there were something more I could do to help. Again, please take care of yourself and I hope you get well soon.

Very, very telling. Boys and girls, there is such a thing as too nice, and I was it.

Jesus says to love your enemies, and do good to those who hate you. But, as I have come to learn, in a case like this the ONLY good you can do your enemies, without causing damage to yourself and your family, is to pray for them sincerely and leave them completely alone.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 07:51 PM
Oh, I suppose I should include this little snippet of my first Dear Gargamel letter, even though it reflects badly on me and shows how naive I was. (Maybe I should put it in precisely because of those things. I hope my mistakes can spare someone else the same problems.)


Again, thank you for what must have been a difficult letter to write. I think by this time we can pretty much take for granted that neither one of us is going to deliberately say anything to hurt the other one's feelings. Sometimes hearing the truth can hurt, and anything to do with this whole thing is painful to me (and I'm sure to you, too), but it helps having everything out in the open.

Ah, so young, so unlearned. Take for granted? HA!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/05 07:56 PM
Hmmmm. I just saw my email from May 22, which was the first time I asked her to provide a total of the money owed. She finally sent it last month.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/20/05 08:53 PM
This is probably the safest place to talk about AJ's Christmas present. I am making it from scratch, and am already bored with it, but it's still fun in a way. Kinda.

AJ picked out the yarn I used to make Baby Dillon's blanket. It was so soft and warm he wanted something out of it for himself, too, and of course as a memento.

Since I don't know how to make socks, slippers, gloves, hats, or anything else useful, I am limited to crocheting a scarf. It is a very nice scarf, but after 2 days it is not quite 3 inches wide.

I think I can finish it before Christmas, but it may turn out to be a good thing that I got sick so all I feel like doing is lying around crocheting anyway. At least he is working the next couple of days, so I don't have to wait until late at night after he goes to sleep. That will help.

Why didn't I think of it before??? I could have made him a headband.

Anyway, shhhhhhhh. Don't tell.
Hey, Neak--guess what? Your book is finally on, but I want to know why, if they can sell it at a discount, we can't. They don't have a picture of the cover, though. However, it looks like a customer can post one if they want, so how's about you scan your book cover and get it posted today? All that bright red would be a LOT more eye-catching than the empty white square reading, No Image Available. Now I'm going to go and look to see if you're on Barnes and Noble, too.

Yup. There it is, also pictureless. But is cheaper.

Well, what do you care? You get your $1.08/book regardless.

Do you mind sharing the name of your book? If you posted it in another thread, I missed it. I love to read and have even been known to pen a few items myself. Alas, none of my novels have made it to print.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 03:27 PM
I don't mind at all. *blushing bashfully* (Well, not too bashfully. I love to talk about writing!)

Finally, only 9 or 10 months late, I am on, and the book is much cheaper there than anyplace else that I know of. But, they don't have a picture. So here is a link with the cover painting.

And since you like to read, the publisher has a bunch of other awesome Biblical fiction if you are interested. My personal favorites are Joseph, Ruth & Boaz, and Esther. (Most, if not all, should also be on as well.)

Bible stories like this were always my favorite reading material growing up, and when I ran out of stories to read I decided I'd better help out, instead of just complaining.

What do you like to write?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 03:43 PM
A little slow on the uptake, but I just saw Mom's posts above. I'm on Barnes & Noble too??????
Thans for the link
I write Christian fiction. I have been published in a couple of devotional books and a couple of magazines but not for my fiction.

I have been journaling this journey since d-day. I am planning to write it in fiction form after my hysterectomy in mid- march. I figure I will have plenty of time. It will also be right slap-dab in the middle of the time their A was so hot and heavy via internet chat. I am hoping it will be good therepy since I will have a few weeks of no IC.

My IC is a Christian and thinks it is good for me to use my writing and my art as therepy.

I know the journaling and letters never sent have been good therepy. I hope putting it all down in a story format will be even better.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 04:09 PM

Things were very quiet on the Gargamel front once C resumed. She emailed her hours to me each week, once in a while asked me a question, such as one time when she had to make an incident report, where I had to then ask AJ. She was all but blaring trumpets to show me how cooperative and obedient she was being, whilst she tried to lure him to Hawaii and other far-off places. (He just told me the other day that she wanted him to go back to Wisconsin with her for Christmas to meet her family. Definitely some long-range planning going on, from her anyway. I don't think he thought much farther ahead than the next illicit phone call.)

Everything was hunky-dory until the delivery of The Box. Of course she started yelling and screaming, figuratively speaking, but after that every time she quieted down for a bit, I would grow very agitated because before that had meant contact, and it triggered me badly. I looked frantically for contact, and when I couldn't find any well, that had to mean I just wasn't looking hard enough so I looked even more frantically, checking everything over and over and over.

When I still couldn't find anything over a period of time, I finally had to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, I wasn't finding anything because there wasn't anything to find. I check a lot even now, but it is leaning more toward making sure she isn't trying to get him to break NC than thinking he has already slipped back.

I need to go see why it sounds like the tub is running. (Another Dervish story in the making? I hope not!) If I can, I'll be back for a few before I have to leave.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 04:21 PM
Oh, hi MF.

I think it would be wonderful if you could incorporate your experiences into a book; I think most of the people who have written about infidelity in fiction probably didn't experience it themselves. Certainly nothing I have read in any piece of fiction compares to what I have been through, and I'm sure it's the same for you.

If you are anything like me, journaling is probably one of the best things you can do. Writing about something always helps to clarify my thoughts.

Writing about something always helps to clarify my thoughts.

So does talking. Did I ever mention she has very clear thoughts?

Here is a picture of the cover that you don't have to allow cookies in order to see, in case that makes a difference. The one on the left is the actual cover. On the right, I returned my son, Neakbro's, whiskers (plus a few more) to his face, after the artist deleted them from the picture we submitted for a cover idea. As an added benefit , you can look at other pictures in Neak's family album after you see the book cover. If you like, of course.

Malchus, Touched by Jesus/Malchus, Retouched by Susan

P.S. Neak, I'm not sure the abbreviation "MF" is a good idea.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 04:51 PM
Another day, another Dayquil. Ick.

The tub was not too bad; I caught it in time. Mostly it was Mr. Computer, but the Dervish was egging him on as he splattered watter out of a container. Kids!


Once we began a true recovery, it didn't take long (perhaps several hours? ) for any contact between Gargamel to become intolerable.

Except that I had to tolerate it, because of the loan and my position as royal check-signer. She took advantage of the situation to slash at me, or get in little digs to hurt me. Thanks to God's grace, and my dear friends here, I responded each time in a professional, businesslike way, and ignored (so far as she could tell) what she was trying to do. Quite a few times I had to smash chairs over on Idiotville until I could be civil, but I did it.

By the time AJ & I got back from St. Louis it had become obvious that we were going to have to shut the business down. The oustanding debt another company owed to us and our factoring company was choking us, as the factoring company was withholding 40% of our income until the other company paid. (They still haven't, and we are having to sue.) The remaining 60% was not even enough to make payroll, and just before the end of the A, AJ had applied the money that should have gone right back to Gargamel, to payroll instead. Which is how that whole mess came about.

On July 12, she sent me an email and cc'd AJ, saying that I had not responded to parts of her previous email. She's right, I ignored all the bad stuff.

My best guess is that that is when she found out she had been blocked from his email address, most likely from logging in to see if he had opened his email, only to discover it wasn't there at all.

Whether I am correct or not, and I think I am, she had at least discovered it by the end of July. Several times AJ had me emmail him something while he was at work, and it never got there. We just thought something was wrong with the system and thought no more about it, until one day AJ went into his mailbox and every single email was open already.

He asked me if I had done it, and I hadn't. Suddenly suspicious, I checked all his settings, including the email blockages. To my great surprise, I found that her email address was unblocked, and mine was blocked.

I still get a bit indignant thinking about that. I AM HIS WIFE!!!!!!!!!! But I took care of it, all right.

What I did next was very naughty, and I bet you can guess what it was.

I left everything just as it was......for a few more days.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 04:53 PM
Well, I am still such an innocent that I had to think for a long time before I guessed what might be wrong with that cute little abbreviation. Sharp as a tack, that's me.
A tack? Yes, I suppose it's possible. Perhaps after its point has been hammered on repeatedly!

wow, you made the big time- Amazon $ Barnes and Noble

Yeah I need to change my name - MF seems to have other meanings oops.

You are so right on the books about infidelity paiting a wrong picture. I have had a fairly 'easy' time since nc was in place before I found out, withdrawal was over, etc. However, it has not really been easy. The emotions are not something you can paint if you have not been there.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 09:40 PM
Thanks for the congrats, they are gratefully accepted. I am absurdly delighted to finally be in the lists there, at my favorite book places.

It really is funny to me, because I'm just an ordinary person - weird, but ordinary - who has everyday responsibilities ranging from grandfather to Dervish, who scrubs her own toilets, mows her own lawn, washes mountains of other peoples' laundry (mostly belonging to the Dirty Dervish), has a few 'science projects' growing in dark corners of the refrigerator, and has dishes piled up more often than not. Not to mention the mice.

I always pictured a writer's lot as more glamorous, somehow. None of the writers I envisioned ever had to have close contact with disgusting bodily emissions, or burying German shepherds. (I draw the line at disposing of the mice. Mr. Computer makes a killing throwing them away for me.)

But no one guesses any of that when I get up in front somewhere. I clean up pretty well, and even the Dervish usually acts human in public. I think he just likes the cute little old ladies to ooh and aah over him. I clean up well enough to look like a polished writer, once in a while, but it just isn't like I thought it would be.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/21/05 10:32 PM
Naturally I decided that as long as Gargamel had been accessing AJ's email for many, many months (he had foolishly given her his password for something early on in the A), that she might as well find out a few things.

First I went onto my 2nd email address and sent him a love letter, saying, "You don't have to respond to this one either, but I just wanted to tell you how I feel about you..." And proceeded to tell him how wonderful he is, and talk about how happy we are together.

We sent a few things back and forth, just enough to show how lovey-dovey we are. The day before I locked his account down again for him, I emailed him the password for my 2nd email account, "because I don't want there to be any more secrets between us". Then, at the pre-appointed time, I unblocked my other address, re-blocked hers, and changed the password.

I have no idea if she saw the email with my password or not, but I took just a little more latitude with that one. Still keeping up the once or twice a day love emails, I exchanged emails with Neaksis and gellnjen, some of which contained unpleasant revalations, if anything was revealed at all.

There was also a certain amount of misleading information that we disseminated. On August 21 she had emailed me, saying she had heard we were moving, and was this true? I responded very vaguely, that moving was certainly a possibility, and gave her Mom's PO box as the address to which she should send future written communications.

I still don't know for sure who was the leak. Only a handful of family and friends knew that we were thinking of some time in the distant future...but obviously somebody we trusted had blabbed. So without ever lying, we said things we knew she would misinterpret if she saw. Jen & I chatted about our AR property (a tiny bare lot, nothing to brag about)and we talked about packing stuff away, (all of us knew that Mom was bringing loads of boxes from the hosipital so I could do major spring cleaning and get rid of a bunch of stuff).

And, well, eavesdroppers never hear anything good about themselves. One letter to Neaksis, I allowed myself to vent a bit. It made me feel much better, whether she ever read it or not.


Hi Neaksis,

You'll never believe what happened today! AJ & I
were on our way in to Stockton with the kids, when we
saw the Nameless Woman of Ill Repute driving the other
direction. It was right before the flashing red light,
and I thought poor AJ was going to throw up. He went
speeding off and veering through the countryside in
case she turned around. An hour or so later, most of
the green coloring had left his gills...

I often wonder what she would think if she knew how
often he lied to her, and how MANY MANY people know
about this, lol. Remember the time when he was
supposed to meet her after work for a drink and [sex], and I texted him that I was going to town?
Nobody was more blown away than me when he sent her
some lame-butt message cancelling their date because
of an "emergency" with the children, and then came
racing home 2 hrs early to keep me from sleeping with
another man, or so he thought. How I laughed the next
day when she texted him asking if the kids were ok.
Suddenly all the pieces fell into place.

I still can't believe what a liar he turned into when
he was with her - it is such a relief to have him back
the way he was before lust short-circuited his brain.
Actually, he is even better now than before - so kind,
loving, and attentive, especially now with the new
baby coming. He is so thrilled; it's touching to see.
The only thing he hasn't done yet is start kissing my
tummy, but I'm sure he will as soon as there is a bump
to kiss. It is so sweet when he does that!

Oh, I talked to Gary the other day, too. He said the
NW of IR had been calling him and trying to pump him
for information about AJ, and the possibility of our
moving. It didn't matter; we really haven't told him
much of our plans anyway. I know YOU won't tell her
anything, wink wink.

Yesterday I talked to Cindy for the first time
in a while. Her kids are all doing really well, but
her and Jim STILL aren't officially divorced yet, if
you can believe that. She said he comes over all the
time and rubs her back and tries to talk her into
getting back with him, but as long as he keeps running
around flirting with all the women she won't hear of
it. She was very sympathetic when I told her of AJ's
tawdry fling - she has always thought he was better
than that - and quite fascinated to hear of her
connection to the other involved party. I think she's
lonely; maybe we can all get together for a little
party some night.

Well, I have to go throw a load of laundry in and get
the kids to bed, but I'm sure I'll have a chance to
write later. Have fun at the parents' meeting!


A little note about Cindy. Her husband lives in his own house, though they have not divorced. At his house, he keeps horses. Two of them belong to Gargamel. While the A was going on, Cindy's husband kept bugging and bugging to find out who it was that Gargamel was seeing. Apparently he had had a crush on her for quite some time, and Gargamel professed to be rather creeped out by his attentions; why he even went so far as to bring her flowers and stuff! And yet she continues to board her horses with this creepy person, even after all this time. I know I'm not the only one who smells something fishy with that whole sitch.

Apparently AJ is not the first married man she has had an inappropriate relationship with.

After a few days of fun, I changed the password on my account, too, and the party was over.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 06:48 PM
I slept in sooooooo late this morning. I didn't get up till 9:29 sharp. The kids had been up for quite a while, but not as long as they would have been if the lightning and thunder hadn't awakened them at 3:30 this morning and kept them awake for a while.

After they got up, I woke up lots of times for a second or two each time. At one point I asked my princess to check and see what everyone was doing. Then I had a little dream that she came back and told me - it was something to do with a tiny rabbit??? - but I was fine with it and happily went back to sleep. Much later I woke up enough to realize that I hadn't gotten the answer that I wanted, and was relieved when all they turned out to be doing was watching Herbie.

In a bit we'll go to the park while it's still sunny, before the next round of rain hits later today, and give them a chance to try out their "new" rollerblades somewhere besides the living room.

I will keep the Dervish's adrenaline strips in my pocket (thank you, Neaksis ) and slip them to my niece and nephews when no one is looking. Maybe I'd better have one, too.

Then, when we get home I will try and find someplace to put the bagpipes where no one will ever ever find them again.

If any of you had a Christmas that was less than merry, just picture me shut up in the house with six little children and a bagpipe, and you will feel so much better. See? It could always be worse.

I am still dumbfounded. Bagpipes.

Well, I had to remind myself where we left off, it has been so long since I've been in here. The next item that had to be tackled after shutting down her little email eavesdropping project was that of getting company equipment back from her.

Just as with sending a full total for the amount owed, she had promised some time earlier to mail out the uniform and office key, knowing that she would be reimbursed for postage. As time dragged on, I asked several more times for the company items and she ignored me.

Then came the point where we were losing the office because there was no money left in the corporation to pay the rent, and we had to get the keys back to them. The idea of leaving her with a key to somebody else's property was almost as scary as her having a grudge and uniforms. Who could even imagine what someone with so much malicious inventiveness would do? I really didn't want to find out.

So, from the September payment I subtracted $110 to cover the cost of shirt, jacket, and new locks for the office. Almost instantly, an email flamed its way back to me, entitled "Don't play games".



Don't play games with me, you owe me money and by LAW you cannot withhold money because of uniforms or keys.

If you want to be stupid about this I'll bill you for all of the hours that I was not paid for, and I'll have the backing of the labor board. Maybe you better talk to your husband about it. For example, May 26, 2005, I went to Stockton and did surveillance and photographs, at AJ's request, I was told I would be paid for it, but never was.

I'm not going to pay to ship a box to you. Next time you are coming over let me know and the box will be under the mailbox.

I have been very patient, don't make involve other people, and I know you don't want me to speak to AJ about this (make no mistake, I can find him)

As always, Gargamel

This letter, along with so many others, tried to slyly undermine the small bit of faith I have in my husband by bringing up yet another thing he had "neglected" to tell me about, and the tone was unmistakably hostile. How badly I wanted to at least blow up her house, but settled for just breaking chairs on Idiotville....again.

It was two days before I was calm enough to respond with grace, and her threat to track AJ down just had to be dealt with.



I had no idea there were more hours you had not been paid for, as they never appeared on your time cards. Please get the totals to me as soon as possible, and I will forward the information on to the bankruptcy attorney.

I will let you know when someone will be available to pick up the box; it will probably be sometime next week.

I'm not sure what you would hope to accomplish by finding AJ, when he has made it very clear that he does not wish to communicate with you again. It is very difficult for him every time he is reminded of his selfish and sleazy behavior. He wants to focus on making a future with his family, not dwell on an unpleasant part of his past.


Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 08:20 PM
Grrrrr. I just lost my whole post, but I'll try to recreate it the best I can.

It must have taken her a while to come up with further awful ideas, because it was five more days till she wrote back.

Obviously the word "sleazy" hit home.



I would have thought you would know about the hours not on the timecards since you and your husband have NO secrets. You should ask him about the hours since he directed me to NOT put them on the time cards.

And as far as the relationship between AJ and I being "sleazy" or "unpleasant", nothing could be further from the truth. AJ and I made promises and plans for the future, together. The sooner the you accept that and your part in it, the sooner you and AJ MAY be able to move forward. A lot of your future together depends on you understanding (not agreeing) with what happened and why. You have a chance to fix what is wrong Neak, don't waste it blaming others. AJ is a very special, loving person, so do what you can to make things right, focus on AJ and nothing else. The only reason I am telling you these things is because I care for AJ very much and only want him to be happy whether it is with you, me, or someone else. I told him that many times and you can ask him, if you don't believe me. So again, I ask you to do your best to make him happy.

As far as what I intend to accomplish by speaking to him, it is very simple, I want the money that is owed to me, all of it. He promised me it would be paid back in full with reasonable interest. I have been very patient with the small amounts of money you have paid back so far, I have not been unreasonable, and I don't understand why you feel the need to be unreasonable.

The ball is in your court, I'll be waiting to hear from you.

As always, Gargamel

My fellow Idiots had great fun pointing out the irony of an OW generously providing marital advice, even suggesting that she go into business for herself. "Gargamel's Marriage Counseling Services." ROFL!

As I mentioned before, I do feel the need to over-explain, and it took lots of encouragement for me to ignore the 'chance' part. I wanted to rub her nose in the fact that I was not the one with the chance; HE was. HE was the one with the chance to make right what he had done wrong, and I had mercifully granted him that chance.

And he had taken it, and dumped her, hahahahahahahahaha. No, I wouldn't really have said that.

And when I told AJ of the contents of this letter, he became irate at the "plans for the future" part. He said he never made her any sort of promise, and told her repeatedly that he wouldn't be able to decide anything while he was still with me.

I suggested that maybe he had said something, and just forgotten, but he was still very insistent that he had done no such thing. I have no idea whether he did or not, but I believe he truly thinks he did not. Either way it was just typical cake-eating behavior at the time, so it had no significance in the present besides just being interesting.

He readily admitted the surveillance, once reminded of it, but as far as he remembered she had agreed to do it strictly as a favor, and it lowered her even further in his already very low estimation, that now she was asking to be paid for it and using it to try and destroy his hard work in the trust-building department. (He really really resented each effort to undermine him.)

He was very open about the whole thing, yes I had asked her to do that, I just didn't remember it till now. No one who knows him would find this hard to believe. It sounds much better to say that he is a big-picture person than that he is absentminded and probably had forgotten by the very next day.

I reassured him that when I responded I would continue to be professional and polite, ignoring her attempts to make trouble. He made me very happy when he encouraged me in that, saying, "You are so much better than she is!"

So with everybody's help, I was good.



This month's payment has been left. Someone will be by
tomorrow afternoon, most likely between 2 and 4 pm, to
collect the corporate items we discussed previously.

The corporation has no more money to pay its debts,
including - but not limited to - its debts to you for
the surveillance and also the loans. If/when more
money is forthcoming, further payments on the
corporate portion will be made.


That last part was upon the advice of the corporation's attorney, who is going to help handle the remaining collection/lawsuit efforts, and who kindly sent out a letter to Gargamel a couple weeks ago, at no extra charge.

She must have had fun making The Box.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 08:21 PM
I just realized: tomorrow is 6 months of recovery.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 08:33 PM
The less said about The Box, the better, so this will be short.

I got the corporate items back, and still consider it worth it for them not to be in the hands of an evil woman.

She included a number of other items, too, like a series of nauseating love letters, one ostensibly written the morning after the first time they rutted like hawgs, and saying bad things about me ("I don't know how you can stay with someone who treats you like that" ), his toothbrush, and some cards, INCLUDING THE ONE I HAD SENT BACK TO HER IN JULY, LOLOLOL!!!!

Yes, I cried for a good hour, but still feel very satisfied that she didn't get to get away with just keeping stuff that didn't belong to her, and using it as one more form of leverage.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 09:25 PM
Upon excellent advice, I never so much as acknowledged, even professionally regarding the company property, the receipt of the box.

The next time I heard from her was November 7.

I had just gotten back from the hospital, and learning that Dillon was dead. As I logged into my email I knew, as surely as if I had heard a voice, that she had emailed me. I really think God was protecting me by not letting it be a surprise. Sure enough, she had, so I just closed my email box and left it alone for a week.

They induced me the next day, and the funeral was on Friday. I had the feeling she would use this as an excuse to break NC, and I was right. Tuesday the 29th a mystery card came in the mail. Our address, "AJ & Family", was written in an unfamiliar cursive (Gargamel usually prints), no return address, and postmarked in Sacramento.

I slipped it to Neaksis, who did the dirty work for me. She really snickered at "From one friend to another..."

As long as I was very unhappy with her manipulations and disrespect anyway, I decided it was time to read the other letter.

It was not so bad, "laughable" is how Neaksis described her continued attempts to poison my M.


Dear Mr. & Ms. AJ:

Thank you for your recent correspondence. I look forward to receiving the payment you mentioned in your email.

I agree that there appears to be some discrepancy in your records and mine. I believe that this is the result of your not being made aware of monies provided to or purchases made on behalf of the corporation which were authorized or requested by Mr. AJ.


Yep, pretty pathetic. I still have to smile about the Ms. No matter what her keyboard does, she can't change me from a Mrs.!!! Bwaaahaaahaaaa!!!!!

The damage came from having to go over the horrendously long list of loans yet again, and seeing all the little things he forgot.

It was never a question of current honesty. He told me everything he could remember, which was all the big stuff.

But even so, it was still very hard to find out that he had gotten petty cash from her a number of times, and that as far back as early February she had paid for a motel for him. Each of these things was little and didn't diminish present trust, but they stirred up so many feelings of anger, resentment, and even hatred, that I knew I was going to have to cut her off as quickly as possible if I wanted to have a hope of recovery.

Sure, the other times had awakened very bad feelings, too, but not on the same grand scale. Along with the death of the baby, and everything else that had gone on, it was just too much.
I'm so very sorry to learn about your loss, Neak...

I've just now been keeping up with your situation..

How far along were you..not that it regards to the painfulness of this for you two..
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 09:51 PM
Note: the manipulations and disrespect were those of Gargamel, not Neaksis. More English humor - sorry, Dobie.

It was oh, 3 or 4 weeks before I was up to talking with AJ about it. (Right after a big argument when I asked him about what appeared to be a discrepancy in his story, and he didn't like how I approached him about it. I asked that in the future, if he doesn't like the way I am saying something, that he simply and calmly say that he doesn't like it, instead of getting angry with me, then I try to go about it a different way. Sounds reasonable to me - both of us changing for the better. This has not been retested yet.)

I expected to have to work a bit to persuade him that NC was needed for me also, especially since he didn't really remember when I talked to him before, all the things she had done to try and drive us apart. But he immediately agreed. I didn't even have to drag out my list of memorable quotes to show him how toxic she was. He even remembered the other things I mentioned earlier, where she told him we wouldn't last 6 months, and he didn't really love me, etc.

So we had a really good talk, and came away in agreement, though he recommended I wait until the attorney sent her the letter notifying her that the corp. wasn't able to make payments at this time. And that was fine.

A few weeks later, I just felt this sudden urge to work on my NC letter. After I wrote the rough draft, I almost pushed 'send' by accident when saving it to my draft folder in the email. Whew! Then I posted it over on Mom's thread for advice.

Believer had a couple of very good suggestions, so I immediately went back in and incorporated them, and saved it into my drafts again.

Well, that is what I thought I did.

As I clicked back into my inbox, it struck me as kind of funny that it had wanted to add Gargamel's second email address to my address book. After all, it only did that!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


December 15, 2005


There are several important items to cover. First, the final payment on my husband’s personal debt will be sent to you shortly after Christmas. The amount of $109.65 will cover the remainder, including the interest at a flat rate of 13%. An itemized list is attached. Also, when I asked my husband about the additional expenses that appeared as if they might be personal, he confirmed your belief that they were corporate instead.

The corporate attorney will be contacting you shortly with the response to your certified letter. The corporation owes a great deal of money besides the amount owed to you, and outstanding accounts payable will cover only about 1/7 of the total, if not less. The corporation is attempting to remain open for a short time to continue collection attempts that would help to soften the blow for its creditors. No representative of the corporation can make promises at this time of what might be able to be paid and to whom. Much depends on how much is collected, and how much is used in attorney fees in dealing with the legal aspects.

I will no longer be handling the financial issues that relate to you. At any point when funds become available , whether in the form of a lump sum or a smaller amount at a time, and that are allocated to you, thndrnlitning will see that they are sent promptly.

With the legal personal obligation of my husband at an end upon the receipt of the last check, there is no further need of contact of any sort between us. As I said above, all further dealings between you and the corporation will be handled through other channels. Thus I will be blocking you from my email, and you will not be hearing from me again.


I was very frantic at first, mostly from the shock of everything and jumping the gun when I didn't mean to.

But it all came out in the wash. The attorney's office called about a half hour later to say their letter to her had gone out, and everyone petted and soothed me so I finally calmed down.

It really is different now that she is blocked and gone. I still have some worries about possible lawsuits, but suffient unto the day is the evil thereof, and I don't think about it much. If it happens, it happens. Even a lawsuit won't bring her back into our lives, but will just be another annoyance that will be dealt with at the time.

As far as can be seen, the Gargamel book is now closed.

I got roses for Christmas.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 09:57 PM
Hi Mimi, it is nice hearing from you. I was right at twenty weeks when they induced me, but he had been dead for close to a week by then.

The cord was twisted, so he had not been able to grow properly from the time he was 12-13 weeks. When he was born, he was the size of a 14-weeker: 5 inches instead of 10-12, and 1 1/2 ounces instead of 1/2-1 pound.

The pressure caused an abruption, which is what finally brought his ordeal to an end.

You are right about how long it was not making much difference, but I relaxed after 12 weeks, since the highest risk was past.
How many living children do you have and how old are they?

Yesterday was so funny, yet touching, with us sitting at the table with our two young men (19 and 23)..

Seems like just yesterday that they were playing with their toys...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 10:01 PM
It was very nice, too, at AJ's request I posted (on Mom's thread) a link to Dillon's guest book, and a number of very kind people expressed their sympathies. It has meant a great deal to us, as well as the condolences here on the board, and I was very glad he had that idea.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 10:06 PM
Mine still play with their toys, but I'm sure that all too soon they will be old like yours, with their cuteness all used up.

My oldest son is 8, my daugher is 6, and my wildlife reclamation project, I mean my other son, is 4. (He is not called the Dervish for nothing, lol.)

They are adorable, mostly, and have had a nice Christmas. They made sweet little crafts, helped me cook, and ate all the candy they could get their sticky little hands on.

In a little while we are taking all six (which includes my sister's three) to the tennis court so they can try out their rollerblades. And so they will stop driving us crazy for a few minutes.
Wow..what a great family, Neak...

Our boys remain "CUTE"...

However, I have to share their adoration with the "CHICKS"...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/26/05 10:17 PM
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/27/05 08:08 AM
Recovery has been very weird for me. (Eighteen minutes to the six-month milestone.)

MC commenced at once, well as soon as we got back from St. Louis, and went very well. We spent a few weeks making sure the pre-A issues had been addressed, then just focused on Building A Stronger Marriage.

Thirteen days into R, I got pregnant, though I didn't find out for some time.

For the first two months or so, everything was going really well. MC almost stagnated, as we quickly assimilated the information, and there were no new problems to bring up.

The MC asked, one last time, if there were any difficulties in our sex life. Oh, no, everything is just great! And right after that it all started to fall to pieces for me.

I don't think it will ever be possible to sort out which feelings were A-related and which were made worse by the PG, but suddenly I lost every shred of desire for my H. All I could think about was him and her, even worse than before, and I didn't want him to touch me, or really me to touch him, either.

Did I talk to him about this? Well, no. I probably would have brought it up if the MC had asked, but he had already given up on everything as fine. I gritted my teeth and kept going, but without much inner enthusiasm. Not that it didn't feel good, but it was just sex. No emotional connection for me.

The emotional distance started to show up more, too. (I didn't talk about that, either.) I still made every effort to be loving, since love is an action and not a feeling, but my feelings were mostly getting worse.

In recovery #1, I was ready to fall back into his arms, to believe him and trust him and love him. The second time around, I just sat back and waited for the A to start up again. I had no confidence that it wouldn't, and rather thought it might at any time, despite my determination to divorce if it did.

And, finally, the resentment and anger started to surface. Or if not to make it all the way to the surface, at least it got high enough to where I could feel it. Into this environment came those awful letters from Gargamel, and you can imagine how that made the whole thing worse.

Not that it was all bad, and that's what was so confusing. We prayed and worshiped together, which was wonderful, and I would feel quite close during those times. Or when he would be extra thoughtful or loving, my happy feelings would overflow. Temporarily.

As soon as he wasn't around to show love and affection, such as being at work, I would be right back slogging through all those bad feelings, no matter how I tried to distract myself. It was always better on here, because then at least my A thoughts were turned to constructive directions, and not just a continual reliving of the place which would be censored if I mentioned it here, that AJ put me through.

It was wrenching, having dual citizenship in heaven and yet still in the bad place. I still do, to a certain extent, but not quite as much.

MC became quite frustrating to me. We would go over the same stuff each time, everything we talked about was fine, but inside me was this seething mass that was never dealt with, and I didn't know what to do about it. I mean, MC was always about us, and this problem was just within me.

AJ was happy, AJ was content, AJ was totally in love with me, AJ didn't think much about the A, AJ was JUST FINE! And I wasn't. All I could do at the time was keep on behaving in a Christian manner, continue to show love-by-actions, and hope it would eventually go away on its own.

Well, congratulations to me, and to us. Six months, yesiree. I'm going to celebrate by pulling AJ's uniform out of the dryer and going to bed.

To those of you who are still struggling at whatever stage of this thing, and that includes me, I pray you will be given the strength you need. The Lord is good, and will grant what you need to get through each day. Keep your courage and faith, and you will eventually leave the Valley of Shadow for the green pastures not far ahead. Your trials in the shadow will prepare you to enjoy the peace in store for you.

(Eighteen minutes to the six-month milestone.)

You're counting the minutes?!!!!!!!!!!!

And for whatever it's worth, everything you've faked during this time has been faked very, VERY well. If I weren't your mother I'd commend you for your inventive skill and admirable determination. Since I am your mother, I'm tempted to shake you till your silly teeth rattle! Nothing good comes of keeping all this bottled up, and I'm speaking as the Grand Champion Bottler, too. Someday it will all blow up, and some poor grandchild will doubtless be injured by one of your ricocheting eardrums.

So has the intimacy improved?
Sorry to hear that Neak. Keep in mind that recovery takes a long time. My WH and I split up, and I didn't start feeling recovered for 2 years. I can't imagine what it would have been like with him still here.

So has the intimacy improved?

If it hasn't it's certainly not for lack of effort!


The less said about The Box, the better

Let's talk about The Box. She gave it to me to keep at my house. I put it away on the top shelf in the closet and forgot all about it until I ran across it last week while I was hunting for the Christmas presents I had hidden. Very well, as it turned out. During my increasingly-frantic search, I saw this strange box and opened it up to see what it was. It wasn't Christmas presents, that's for doggone sure!

6-27-5 was quite a day wasn't it? I never dreamed when I got up that morning it would turn into the kind of day it did.

There are three of us here that I know right off that count today as the 6 month anniversary of the beginning of recovery. For me, it was also d-day.

If you are like me, some days are good, some are iffy, and some are just bad. I must say that the good and iffy outweigh the bad ones now.

I hope in 6 more months that the good will outweigh the iffy and the bad ones will be few and far between.

I can not even imagine how rough it has been with a pregnancy, the loss of a child, and the OW remaining in your life because of the financial reasons.

Your dependence on the Lord I kjnow has been what has gotte you through.

I hope you have a very blessed day.

Does AJ realize that this is 6 months? I know mine doesn't, but it is not a good day to remind him. He is studying and he doesn't need anything to throw him off today. He has to take professional exams tomorrow and Thursday (prayers appreciated)

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/27/05 05:51 PM
Overall, yes, intimacy and everything else has improved. I am going through another smaller dip right now, but I am sure it is directly related to his grouchiness over the last week, and not something deep and lasting. He has been fine the last two days, and I am losing the urge to kick him.

He has been having to get up at 3:30-4am for the job site he's been going to, and not always getting to bed as early as he should. Sleep deprivation makes him cranky. Christmas Eve was the worst, when Neaksis called up about 9 to see if I could bring a few presents back to her, that were still in my trunk. I didn't mind, but he had just dozed off and woke up enough to order me not to go (:eek!!!), and after I hung up the phone continued to complain for a while in a rather rude way until he finally dozed off again.

Less than five minutes later, one of his good friends showed up at our gate, honking his horn and shouting for help. His pit bull had gotten entangled in whatever they were using to tie it up, and was in danger of choking. His wife was useless; she has excessively long manicured nails, and a dislike of anything smacking of manual labor. Oh, I didn't want to wake up AJ, but his poor friend was frantic.

AJ woke up fine, was gone a few minutes, and then came back fine. I just went about my business, not feeling particularly snuggly for some reason. The Dervish plopped down next to him and asked, "Daddy, why you so mean ta Momma?" LOL! AJ remembered nothing, but asked me about it and felt very bad when I told him. And of course when I tucked in small Dervish, I reassured him that Daddy was very sleepy and didn't mean to be grouchy, and he had said sorry.

The other times AJ was grouchy he was awake, and at least apologized on his own, making an effort to guard his hasty tongue. While I try not to hold grudges, it takes a while now for me to relax and get close again when he has done something I don't like, even if he is sorry and stops. (Fortunately this has not happened much so far in R; he has done very well in being someone I want to be close to.)

I have recently talked to him a little, in general terms, about how hard R has been for me, and he had the idea of one night a week counselling with each other so if one of us is having a problem, the other can at least offer support. I think it's a wadfoil idea, but in the last couple weeks of work and holiday prep it hasn't happened. Maybe this coming weekend will work. On the one hand, he wants to know more about my feelings and trials in this, but on the other hand they make him feel really super bad, too, because he knows it is his fault. Somehow we will have to reach a happy medium between me telling him nothing, and me telling him every bad thought that floats through my head and bothers me. I am not a medium kind of girl, and it will take some work.

That was kind of a long answer just to say, yep, we're getting better a little at a time.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/27/05 05:55 PM
Wow, there was another page I didn't see till now. Prayers for your husband, MoFo. (Howdja like that one? Better than the other! )

I'll remind AJ later, prolly after he gets off work. I don't think it will upset him, and what I hope is that he will feel better that together we have beaten one of Gargamel's unholy prophecies.

MoFo. (Howdja like that one? Better than the other! )

I was just thinking of that abbreviation this morning, and wondering if it might be an acceptable substitute. Either our thinking of it separately means it's a genius idea, a stroke of brilliance, or else is just means that 2 people happened to have the same bad idea at the same time and so what?!

LOL. It is nice to know I am being thought of anyway
i dont know....
i am thinking that MoFo is almost worse.
lol- I guess I could make up a new name. I really am not comfortable with my real one. Guess I could come up with a name I have always wanted to be named, huh?
Hey Neak:

I have a son(8) and a daughter(6) too. Do yours fight with each other a lot?

Are you in Montana? I thought i read something about you moving there. I am thinking about going there.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 12:31 AM
But MoFo sounds so hip! We could always go with the buttoned-down "Ward", lol. I like the name moveforward; it is just hard to nicknameize.

Oh, my kids fight allllllll the time! It is like a hobby for them, but bugs the snot our of me. It seems like I am always having to break up a fight and try and redirect them to something more fun than clobbering each other.

We live in CA, but I want to move to MT. It's getting too crowded here, and there's not enough snow where we live; once or twice every ten years or so. I've been trying to convince everybody to move to MT with me anyway.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 02:01 AM
P, if it's not too sensitive, how did you know there was one? I am in awe.
Ooops - Lost me on that one Neak. I know you are the Idiotville IT head, but I'm ALL MIXED UP.
Posted By: Pebbles Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 03:22 AM

P, if it's not too sensitive, how did you know there was one? I am in awe.

Ooooh, here is the question! Believer, it's a cleverly disguised question for me - so cleverly disguised that I didn't get it at first - about a spy who may or may not have been reading my posts and reporting to my STBX.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 03:37 AM
I was trying to be sneaky, and apparently succeeded.
Like I said, that Neak is a clever girl.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 06:13 AM
Sometimes I even outsneak myself.


Oh, my puns are awful.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/28/05 11:20 PM
The kids wanted to make lunch today, and it was the most awful thing. I did not have any.

They made grilled cheese sandwiches. They followed my instructions to butter the outside of the bread, then freelanced and filled the skillet with 1/2 inch of oil. Buttered deep-fried grilled cheese sandwiches, my favorite! Sounds like a great southern dish. (Spoken by a true Yankee.)

Today has been an accomplishing day, bookwise. (My house is still a mess, and I'd better get busy.) Neaksis & I received word that our children's book is slated to come out in February, or at least by March if they're running a little late, and I sent in the query letter to the other publisher for my book about Peter. Now that was an ordeal!

I have ordered Neaksis to begin work on our next children's project, and we spent a while brainstorming today. It looks like the next one will be a kid set into the story where Paul was lowered in a basket from the wall of Damascus. Sounds like oodles of fun!

Neaksis, by the time you read this, I want the first draft ready. If it's not, get cracking!

Well, time to put all this energy into something more constructive, like the kitchen.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/02/06 09:59 PM
I have been far too busy arguing and stewing to contribute anything useful for a while. (I am nothing if not honest.)

Recovery is a daunting process, even now. At least we are agreed that we both still want to recover.

Communication seems to be the big problem. On the one hand, AJ says he wants to be my support, and to have me be able to confide in him whenever something bothers me, even if it is something that pops into my memory from the A. On the other hand, he frequently becomes angry when I try to tell him something, even if it's not an actual bothering thing. And then I don't handle that very well, though I haven't thrown vases at his head yet, as I have been tempted to do.

I don't understand what he wants from me, or how I can phrase things more delicately so he doesn't get upset, and he doesn't understand why this still bothers me so much, when he has tried so hard.

Nothing is resolved yet, though we have at least progressed to the point of having some good discussions about it. I pointed out that we are ahead of the curve for the six-month mark, and told him the three reasons why.

1. God. We both rely on Him for help, and pray together often. (For some reason these other problems seem to pop up when we haven't prayed together as much.) We ask God for healing, and He smooths the process along.

2. The changes I have seen in AJ's life, and how consistent he has been with them.

3. The efforts he has made to show his transparency, and that there is still NC.

This has meant that most of what I am dealing with is old stuff, which gradually fades with time. There have been few new wounds, and most of them were related to my extended contact with Gargamel, which I am so glad is ended. (BTW, I will be sending her the final payment on the personal stuff this week, then I won't even have to worry about that.)

When I see him in the nude, I still think a lot of where his penis has been that it shouldn't, but even that is better. It's more of a steady, sad knowledge than the excruciating pain of before. And if he puts his mind to it, he can make me forget that completely, at least for a while.

AJ has been discouraged at times all the way along, because at some times we're close, and sometimes we're driven apart. I think deep down he thinks that is my fault, and because something is wrong with me, (well duh), and that I should be over it by now. He seemed to understand this last time when I explained how it usually takes at least 1-2 years, and that we are doing fine and everything we're going through is normal, and better than normal.

Now we'll just have to see how long he remembers it.

But we are to the place now where we can feel intimacy again, and pray sincerely for each other (maybe he could all along, but I couldn't have much this last week). One more bump crossed over, and a smoother time in which to figure out what to do about the communication thingie.

One funny thing was when he said he noticed I hadn't wanted to be around him as much, and I answered that I didn't like to be around him when he was grouchy, even if he wasn't grouchy at me. His face took on a look of total mystification. "Why not? You're my WIFE!"

Really, it's better now.

Gosh, did your write this from my POV?

I am feeling so much the same way. Is there comfort in knowing you are not alone?

I agree with steady sadness instead of excruciating pain. It is still not a good feeling.

Mine thinks he has recovered, so I should be, too. NOT.

I think I am worried that the next 6 months will all be anniversaries of things between them that I knew nothing of. He says he doesn't trigger unless I ask him about her or something associated with the A. How does that happen? how can he just stop thinking of her. I honestly believe he is serious, too. Drives me nuts.

She was his old GF from HS so I know when her birthday is. The week of d-day, I told him we were going to do something really special like go to Vegas and renew our vows that day or something. That is not going to happen because of money and work. That is just one more anniversary date in the next 6 months. I hate these thoughts.

My mind is never still. How can he not think about her? Maybe I think about her enough for both of us.

Hang in there, Neak. We are going to make it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/02/06 11:22 PM
Hey Mom, could you open The Box long enough to look at the date on the 'Morning After' letter? Lots of ugly 1-yr anniversaries are coming up soon, and that one in particular I want to be on the lookout (more than usual) for C attempts. There is also his birthday in May, but at least I know the date on that one.

We went to rescue Neaksis in enemy territory today. She stopped to see what that awful noise was, and it was the muffler dragging on the ground - never a good sign even in the best of weather.

She took haven in a thrift store. Poor Neaksis. Forced to await rescue while immersed in her natural habitat. Ok, so it's my natural habitat, too, but I wasn't stuck.

Coming out of the parking lot we met a vehicle that, through befogged windows, closely resembled the Gargmobile. Also, I haven't gone yet, but AJ was kind enough to warn me that the ice cream shoppe where the Princess wants to use her free birthday sundae certificate (say that three times fast!) is also a favored hangout, which is why he resisted all her pleas to take her there. Lucky me instead.

For the most part I have just been doing my shopping down in the valley, where I don't have to look over my shoulder so much. Of course I have nothing to be ashamed of, but it does wonders for my attitude when I don't have to have my face rubbed quite so firmly in the reality of there being Another Woman out there.

But Neaksis was important enough to make an exception for. ("I'm sorry, Neaksis, but you had the misfortune to break down too close to Gargamel's lair. Maybe you should wait until the rain stops and try to fix it yourself. Surely the thrift store has some wire...")

[That was a joke.]
Posted By: neaksis Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/02/06 11:58 PM
She tried though.

When I see him in the nude, I still think a lot of where his penis has been that it shouldn't.

I'm sure you'll be glad to know that when I saw him in the nude last week, that wasn't what I thought about. Any, or a lot!

No dates on any of the letters, which sort of lends credence to the idea that they were written after-the-fact, not at the time, and composed just for The Box and its annoyance factor to you. If that's the case, she probably couldn't remember the date either. Rein in your free-floating anxiety, get an approximate date in your mind, and just watch.

P.S. Next time he starts whining about your "not getting over it" fast enough, ask him to do the following mental exercise: Reverse roles. You had the affair. You slept with another man repeatedly. You lied to him over and over about what you were doing. You called him the "lowest (copulating) piece of (fecal material) on the planet." You told him it was his fault you hated everyone in the world. You sent messages to your lover while he was in the room, talked about your plans with your lover when you thought AJ was asleep at your feet, etc. You made plans to abandon your children and leave with your lover. You said you were finished with him and would return to your family, and then went back to him again. You borrowed thousands and thousands of dollars from this man, and left your family hopelessly in debt. I could go on, but you'd be able to fill in the details better than I. It is now 6 WHOLE months since you finally ceased contact with this man. Is AJ "over" it yet, or is he still struggling?

Make a wild guess.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 12:50 AM
Any time we reverse roles, he is unable to get past the immediate bloodbath as he homicidally attacks everyone involved. The 'massacree' is kind of where it ends, for him. Beyond that he can't imagine.

I forgot you saw him nekkid. ROFL! At least all the important bits were tucked away out of sight.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 12:58 AM
Hi MoFo, I just now saw you posted between my other two posts. It never ceases to amaze me how the names and faces change, but the stories are all the same.

Based on my own experience, I would say your FWH is probably completely correct that he doesn't think of her unless you bring her up. AJ hardly ever thinks of her on his own. (Though I'd bet he was even edgier than I was during our Neaksis retrieval.) I have no idea how he does it, but it's like he shook her off and that was it.

Once in a while, when he is upset, he does say that it is still hard for him to look at himself in the mirror, and that he will have to live with what he did the rest of his life. For the most part though, all he thinks about is sex, me, sex, work, sex, church work, sex, and more sex. There seems to be a theme.

I think of her enough for both of us, too. I'm down to, oh, maybe 8-10 times and hour. But since that was reduced from about 70 times a minute, you do the math.

But progress is progress.

I forgot you saw him nekkid. ROFL!

Well, I haven't!


At least all the important bits were tucked away out of sight.

What Mama can't see, Mama can't amputate! Lucky, lucky AJ!

You are so right- only the names have changed.

He has to go to her town last week. I prayed the whole time he would not run into her. Normally, I go but couldn't last week. He didn't run into her.

On NYE he said he had never done anything to intentionally hurt me. I know it was not intentional, but man did it hurt!

And your math is similar to mine. I am so thankful I didn't have to deal with her like you did. I am not sure I would have been as sane and civil as you have been.

I wish I could turn off my brain like he does.

Here's to progress.
t&l you crack me up.

I never told my mama about this. I think if I did it would somehow be my fault.

It is the 3rd generation (that I know of) of women in my family that this has happened to. Hereditary?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 07:21 AM
Either my mama is a better guesser, or your family is better actors. Maybe some of each.

It's too much to be coincidence. Somehow, some way, those three generations of husbands were related.

How nice it is to know that I'm not alone in this. Not that I didn't know about all the shared experiences, but it's good also to know that there are others right now in almost exactly my place in recovery, and even a few who share important dates with me! Very helpful, especially as the Awful Anniversaries start almost immediately.

Coming up this month: January 4, the first day of work with Gargamel. January 8, two months since Dillon was born. Then January 19 or thereabouts, the start of the whole nightmarish process.

Coming up next month: February 8, three months since Dillon was born (hey, at least I have stopped counting the days), February 12, D-day, and somewhere in the last couple days of February, the first sexual encounter of the A.

Speaking of which, I don't remember if I mentioned, but before they had sex, Gargamel went in for a fresh round of STD testing and showed the results to AJ so he would feel safe having sex with her. Of course it's horrible, but also a twisted part of me has to wonder how that played out. It seems a bit awkward to include in foreplay. "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah baby. It feels so good when your STD tests are negative!" Just one more of the many totally cold-blooded things they did, that leaves any sane person thinking, "?????"

We'll all muddle through this together. I'm sure the first time around is the hardest.

I still am going to talk some about the very worst part of recovery so far, right before the baby died. I wanted to get there today, but I am getting so sleepy! I worked on cleaning up the garage, and other worthy projects, fixed AJ's lunch and found his other wool socks to wash, but now it's only 3 hours till his alarm goes off and my eyelids are heavy.

I wonder how late Grandpa is going to up trying to comb his hair?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 07:21 AM
What there is of it.

What there is of it.

Hope he doesn't shred that bright pink scalp of his to ribbons, trying to arrange strands of hair that belong to him now only in memory. Tell him I said to go to bed.

Good Mornimg Neak and friends,

My mama lives a couple of hours away and was all wrapped up with buying a house. I didn't want her to know. She would have said it was because I am not a great housekeepe or something else she has harped on for 40 years.

I talked to my fws last night while we were snuggling before bed. He had been wrapped up in the football games all day and with both kids home it is hard to talk. Told him the next little bit is tough for me because of the anniversary things. He said he hadn't even thought about it.

I told him I had and if I seemed a little exra sad, he might want to be a little more loving. He said he would try.

I don't have specific dates, for when they first made contact, I just know it was January.

I told him this morning I really do trust him to not make contact, but I do not trust her. He told me if she does, he'll delete and call me. Hopefullly, she is so wrapped up in her swinging she'll leave him alone.

We will muddle through.

be blessed
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 07:18 PM
One other thing I thought of was when I was asking AJ what I had done that made a difference. After he told me (what I already discussed on here), he said something very interesting. "I didn't want to love you, but you made me love you again."

All of us, I'm sure, have gotten enough education on this site to know it wasn't that simple, that there were lots of other factors involved, even biochemistry, and no one can make anybody do something they don't want to do.

And yet, by following God's leading and with what I learned here, it has been turned around.

I think what he meant was, "I didn't feel any more loving feelings toward you, and I didn't want to. When you continued to show love to me, I felt myself drawn back to you, against my every inclination. And no matter how hard I tried to make them go away, loving feelings toward you began to surface again."

And that's where the tremendous guilt comes in. It's easy to betray someone when you have no care for them. But once Plan A begins its work, and those feelings begin to come back, the affair becomes a very painful place to be. Unfortunately, it usually takes Plan B to make it painful enough to where they want to end it, but they find out that cake-eating isn't as much fun as they'd hoped.

Oh, they enjoy wallowing in it, sure enough, but pay a very high price for every morsel.

Which is where the lighthouse comes in. One moment they're shoveling cake down their throats as fast as they can, from anywhere they can get it. It tastes good, so even though it upsets their stomachs they keep gorging themselves. Then suddenly they wake up and find themselves in the dark, on their hands and knees in the pigsty, and only turnip rinds to munch on. High above their heads, they see a beacon, untouchable, unreachable. They are about to give up in despair, when they remember that they have the map.

By the light flaming above them, they read, "GET OUT OF THE PIGPEN! DO NOT GO BACK TO THE PIGPEN EVER AGAIN!"

Then, if they're smart, they follow the light home.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 07:23 PM
Just keep muddling, just keep muddling, just keep muddling, muddling, muddling, muddling.

I'll quit singing now.
Very good analogy, Neak.

So did you buy him a lighthouse to symbolize this?

Here is how we differ, mine says he never stopped loving me. He even told her he loved me. Of course he told her he loved her, too.

That is so confusing to me. He said it was play acting with her and real with me.

The one time they met and had sex, they were only meeting to talk. Of course I am not sure why they chose hotel room to talk. He swears it was not planned - it just happened.

I hope that is the truth, but if it is, will it just 'happen' with someome else some other time?

He swears it won't, that he will not put himself in a situation like that again. I pray that is the truth.

My daughter needs the computer for school, so I am signing out for a bit. Have a good day.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/03/06 08:09 PM
I'll have to start looking for lighthouses. That's a good idea.

AJ never exactly said he stopped loving me, but kind of danced around the ILYBINILWY issue. "We practically grew up together. I'll always love you..." and his voice would trail away thoughtfully, as if to suggest, just not in that way.

Yep, AJ didn't mean for any of this to happen, either.

The part of me that is logical can recognize that since he has a good idea of what led up to this, and the warning ***DANGER*** signs he ignored, he is more likely to avoid them early, and not wait until he's in some whr's bedroom with her unfastening her clothing to decide, well maybe I shouldn't be here - what to do, what to do? Think, think, think, oh well.

I would predict that both of our husbands would do much better now at just avoiding the problem in the first place. So we just need to keep holding to that hope unless we see something to contradict it.
Where in the dickens are you anyway? I've got an appointment for you at the Dr's office tomorrow @ 11:15 AM, so plan to get your hemorrhaging self down there for it. Your physician says it's time to take care of this and get it over with. You'll LIKE anesthesia!

Posted By: neaksis Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/04/06 01:51 AM
She was thrift store shopping with me and ruining the entire experience, let me tell you!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/04/06 05:48 AM
I admit it, I did.

First, she hates driving with me because of my G-jumpiness. "Aaaaagh! There she, wait, it just looks like hers. Eeeeeeeek! There's another, that's not her, either." Her patience for that sort of thing is rather short of sisterly. *pout*

We went the back way and dropped the poor little white lawnmower off at the shop, then went together in the Suburban to the thrift shop.

Now, when I stepped out of the car at the muffler place, I froze with horror when there was such a rush, um, down under, that it felt like I had urinated in my underthingies, when I was pretty sure I hadn't. So I had to run in and freshen up really quick. And since Neaksis was standing right there watching me when I gooshed, she was already grossed out by the time we got to the thrift store.

Under the circumstances, I was not real keen on a wheeee-let's-change-our-clothes-a-bunch-of-times spree, so she was a bit disappointed with that, and then I kept walking funny around the store and making little grunts or whimpers whenever I felt my life forces draining away again. It was sooooooo funny, and well worth the inconvenience to watch the disgust shivers racing across her face. She is so delicate. Cute little Neaksis!

On our way past the last place I had seen Gargamel, I glanced over, AND SHE WAS THERE AGAIN!!!! Neaksis got the best look at her full-length, but we both saw her profile quite well. Let's just say she appears to have been using comfort food to console herself for the loss of her married boyfriend.

"My, she's fat," I say.
"My, she has a big nose," Neaksis says.

If any of you, after reading any quantity of what I've written, still think I'm nice, it's a good thing you can't see the smug, self-satisfied smirk on my face just now. She's fat, and I'm not, ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa!!!!

(Brief moment as Rational Self tries to reassert itself. It is not enough for me to be more attractive on the outside than she is. Character, honor, loyalty, these are written on the soul, and are the only things that truly matter. A fine character trumps a beautiful exterior any day of the week.)

Moment over. I'm skinnier!

When I told AJ about this near C, he was relieved that she did not even turn her head at the Suburban. It is nice to have something we can drive and be anonymous.

So from there we drove up to the school to pick up my niece & nephews, but they misunderstood (?) and rode home with one of Neaksis' neighbors, whose kids also go to the same school.

Another great moment at the school. I had to tidy up in their facility, of course, and whoever had used that stall right before me had plugged up the toilet, but it still looked fine when I used it. Had there been a plunger I would have been delighted to plunge it myself, but there was not. So I had to confess to the teacher that the Red Sea needed to be parted.

It just hasn't been my day.

But I'm skinnier!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/04/06 06:01 AM
Before I nod off to sleep, I just want to say I am grateful for the nice people who have come in here to chat with me.

I haven't followed much on the board in the last couple of months, partly because my attention span doesn't span anything, partly from being busy, and partly just being so wrapped up in dealing with my own pain. I don't have any objection to stepping outside that every now and again, and reminding myself that just about everyone here is hurting over something, but it's so safe and warm in here, (and at Mom's place and in Idiotville), that mostly it's easier to sit by the fire and muse.

Thanks for dropping by.
Congrats on being skinnier!!!! That rocks!

I'm praying for you tomorrow. Female problems are nasty. Believe me, have expeienced enough of those lately.

You are doing great
Wow, not_so_you_neak! A heckuva story.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/04/06 04:33 PM
Thanks, MoFo. I'm still smiling. And trying not to make cow noises, cuz I really am better than that. Also, thanks for the prayers. They will be much appreciated today as I get checked and whatever else.

Hi RiverTam, glad I could help pass the time. You seem to have a much better instinctive grasp of this than I did, wow. Looking back, I can't believe I thought they could ever just be friends again, and that there was a problem with me for not being able to accept that. I mean, he tried to reassure me he wouldn't be screwing her after that first time. "I think we're past that now." Double .

AJ is gone overnight, but somebody (hopefully me) will be around later on with an update. In the meantime, MUST ZOOM AND CLEAN HOUSE! (And maybe try to sneak in a few minutes on the stationary bike. Wouldn't do to lose my girlish figure. ) (("Exerseecize" is what the Princess calls it.))

Don't have too much fun without me. I'll be back.

Hi RiverTam, glad I could help pass the time. You seem to have a much better instinctive grasp of this than I did, wow. Looking back, I can't believe I thought they could ever just be friends again, and that there was a problem with me for not being able to accept that. I mean, he tried to reassure me he wouldn't be screwing her after that first time. "I think we're past that now." Double .

Well... I've messed up plenty! Plenty enough to make me break out in a cold sweat about not working to "plan". We're all naïve, at least, up to a point. And it's a naïveté based on trust. I mean... what kind of marriages would we have had, often for decades, if we were mistrustful and suspicious? We trust our spouses and they KNOW this and abuse it. It's reprehensible.
Duplicate post on behalf of the blob sprawled across her sister's bed..........

Well, we're done and home. Neak post-general anesthesia is a fairly-amusing person, however, not quite as amusing as Neaksis was after being anesthetized once for wisdom tooth extraction. I've always wished I had THAT one for America's Funniest Home Videos. If she were a drunk, let me just say that she'd be a very happy drunk!

The doctor told me (I was the only coherent one between the two of us) that there was some tissue up there and she hoped that removing it would be the answer to all the current difficulties. Good news to the squeamish and delicate among us. Two weeks of pelvic rest have been prescribed, so we easily- ones don't have to worry about any additional autobiographical or instructional episodes for at least a few more days!

ROFL at T&L's delicate nature

I hope the tissue removal takes care of the problem.

Two weeks of pelvic rest will only give her more time to use her imagination to come up with new and different entertainments for us all to enjoy after her next insturctional post

ROFL at T&L's delicate nature

My delicate feelings have been cruelly and casually trompled. Sniff....

I think I'll go home now. Of course, I was going home anyway, so it doesn't mean much, really.......

Awww, didn't mean to tromp on your feelings. I just think we ALL learn so much from Neak. Not sure how there can be any delicate natures left around here
My delicate feelings became extinct about the same time as the dodo bird. It was a joke. Are we laughing yet? Actually, I guess I'm going to Neak's house. Post-anesthesia she tends to drift off as soon as she's stationary for more than a few minutes and I guess I'm going to stay until her natives are asleep. Grandma will rock you to sleep darlings. With a boulder.

LOL- You are one of those cuddly grandmas??? how sweet.

Want to come stay with me after my hysterectomy?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/05/06 03:43 AM
Ta-dah!!! I'm baaaaaaack!!!!

Pretty frisky, too, all things considered. And since there aren't any delicate natures left after my sterling influences, I'm sure everyone will be glad to hear that I'm down to a couple drops per hour.

Oh yeah, she's one cuddly grandma all right. If she came and stayed, you wouldn't recognize their kids upon their emergence from Grandma Boot Camp.
WOW! What an amazing recovery!

I told my husband about you today. Told him that is was great to have someone who understands where I am - all the way down to the female problems. Well, I didn't tell him about female problems.

Anyway, I'm glad you are up and around.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/05/06 03:59 AM
Not too much worth describing except for the anethsesia part. Up until then, I crocheted, got blood drawn, and got an IV. Oooooooooh.

Oh, and I would tell you about how, after Mom told everybody downstairs that she worked there, so she didn't need an escort and could find it all just fine, we got lost several times, but it wouldn't be nice to tell so I won't. (She DID ask for directions, so I'm glad it was her and not my dad, or we would still be grimly wandering up and down the corridors.)

When the mask came down over my face, it felt just as suffocating as AJ's CPAP, which he has made me try before, and always makes me flip out because I hate feeling suffocated. NOTE FROM t&l--Obviously they didn't keep her "out" nearly long enough!

I tried to ask the lady whether it was better to breathe through my mouth or nose, as I was having difficulty with both, and she had to lift the mask and ask me to repeat myself before she understood. She never did answer, just stuck the mask back down just as the gas hit. Unfortunately I was just taking a big mouth and nose gulp right then, and nearly choked myself. By the second breath it wasn't so hard to breathe.

I decided to repeat the Lord's Prayer, figuring that was as good a way as any to go under, especially if I never woke up again. Well, it's a risk.

The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures. The room began to buzz lightly, and the ceiling was blurry. He leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul. The buzzing grew louder, and all I could still see were the giant light fixtures. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff, they comfort me. I had to blink very hard to continue. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies, Thou annointest my head with oil, my cup runneth over. Everything was blurry and dark. My eyes wouldn't stay open. I knew I had to hurry. SurelygoodnessandmercyshallfollowmeallthedaysofmylifeandIshalldwellinthehouseoftheLordforeverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrr rrrrrrr r rr rrr r.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/05/06 04:11 AM
This is t&l, with the instant rebuttal.........

I was certainly NOT lost. I knew exactly where I was. It was the preop department that was LOST. When I had my surgery a few years back it was on one end of the 2nd floor. However, the hospital got busier since then and, as we discovered today, they've reopened the med-surg unit and moved the dang preop dept. to the other end of the same floor. That Neak! Snarky little twit. And implying I'm not "cuddly." Just because I have 6-inch quills protruding out all over my body should not be taken to mean I'm not someone just made to snuggle with!

Besides, the grandkids understand me. Grandma (or Noah, depending on which set of kids you're talking to) LOVES too play, but...obedience comes first. Fun is second. And if we can't get the obedience part down pat, the fun is indefinitely postponed until we've perfected the first part. Sometimes "indefinite" is short; sometimes long. Depends on the kids, and the moment.

t&l, AKA "Cuddles"
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/05/06 04:13 AM

Well, I didn't tell him about female problems.

Whyever not? Does anybody have any secrets around here? Why start now?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/05/06 04:27 PM
I lost my voice today from being intubated. There's nothing for it but more chocolate to soothe my poor throat. Shucks.

Other than that, groggy but fine. The kids are being rotten, but I could still sprint fast enough to catch the Dervish when he tried to run. Momma's still got it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/07/06 04:17 AM
Le Dervishe has held out longer than I predicted, but is sitting quietly on my lap looking sleepy. I had to corral him to keep him from tormenting his brother and sister, and this will be my only chance to type this evening, so we'll see how far I get.

Since I fought another successful battle of the mind today, perhaps it is (finally!) time to get around to this part. I went to post it over two months ago, but the computer ate it, and I just haven't tried to cover the same ground again until now.

I have mentioned before how, just when MC started to stagnate, that my recovery began to fray around the edges, but by sometime in October it was starting to show serious cracks. I just didn't understand why. AJ was still doing everything he could and should, I wasn't sick from the PG anymore, life was going well, but my brain was like a black hole, devouring itself on the inside.

By late October, it had gotten so bad I couldn't even pray, at least not with any success. Through the whole ordeal, I had knelt for hours, wrestling with the Angel, demanding a blessing, and asking that the powers of darkness be rebuked. And they were, I could sometimes see it happen before my eyes, as AJ would (ever so briefly) show a little hint of sanity, such as when he realized how his leaving would devastate the children right after I began to pray that he would think of them.

But then my wound was so great that I wasn't capable of the same deep communication I had gotten used to. I would start out my prayers in every spare moment, like always, but they would immediately go off track, and no matter how hard I tried to focus, I couldn't do it.

"Dear Father in heaven, thank you that I can come before you today and pray for my family and my husband. Please forgive us for our sins, especially AJ. I can't believe what he did. There was that time I was so sick, home with the kids, throwing up, crying at the computer while I clicked Refresh over and over till I saw that he had taken her out to breakfast at Perko's. Well, of course she was with him - he didn't eat $30 worth of breakfast himself! Oh, right. Forgive us for our sins, and cover us with the blood of Jesus. But that still wasn't as bad as the time he screwed both of us in the same night. I wonder if there were any other times he did that? No wonder he wanted to take a shower when he got home. That grosses me out! Imagine, going right from her to me like that! Yuck! Oh, oops, you're still there, God. Yes, well anyway, please send your Holy Spirit to us. You know all the trouble I'm having right now, and how hard it is to pray. Every time I start, I just end up thinking of all the awful things he did, like that night at the hospital where he drove all the way up here, wouldn't hear of me going with him, then called her and had her meet him in the ER. Boy, was that awful. At least the nurse was just as embarrassed as I was, and I bet they all glared at him good after I got done. But how nasty. He won't even talk to his own wife, but SHE gets to go with him to the emergency room. His "lady friend", the nurse said, when it should have been his wife!!! Oooooh, that makes me so mad! Almost as mad as when I found her drunk in his hotel room. No, no, no. Holy Spirit! I was praying, that's right..."

And so on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

All day long, every spare moment, my prayers continually diverted into a grievance stirring, and there was nothing - NOTHING - I could do. I tried praying harder, reading more encouraging texts, but even then my mind would wander dreadfully.

If it weren't for Still Seeking, that's probably where my recovery story would still be now.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/07/06 04:29 AM
The Dervisheth sleepeth. Yayeth!

Still Seeking brought up the subject of music, and once he found out that I used to sing all the time, and hadn't really since January, he recommended that I make the effort to start singing again, both to lift my spirits and to bring life back closer to normal. So I did sing, a bit. It was kinda fun, even though I was rusty.

When I was superdy-dooperdy tired of the mess described above, and had considered just giving up only about thirty-two jillion times, a little thought popped into my head. Maybe Still Seeking had actually said it and it just didn't sink in at first, or maybe my brain was thinking outside the box for a change, but I thought, instead of trying to pray, why don't I just sing?

So I did not try to pray at all. Instead, every time my thoughts would start to wander away, I would sing. In the car, one of my worst times, (formerly my favorite prayer time), I would play music and sing nonstop. And though they certainly tried, those icky thoughts could not compete with beautiful, uplifting praise songs.

Within three or four days, I could even pray very short prayers of a few sentences each. I would pray really fast for about thirty seconds, then sing another song.

By the end of a week, the oppressive darkness had been beaten almost all the way back to what passes for normal these days, and just in time.

I had two weeks or less to enjoy the new glow of joy and peace before finding out that Dillon was dead.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/07/06 04:39 AM
I can't let you go to sleep on that sad note.

God's times and purposes are not the same as ours. He always provides strength just when we need it. I can't imagine what it would have been like to try and endure faithfully through a trial like that during the black spot I went through.

God, in His graciousness, gave me the strength when He knew I would need it. And while my joy took a major hit, I haven't lost my peace for a minute. Well, maybe a minute here and there, but hardly at all in the grand scheme of things. Even the joy was still there, for underneath the grief was the bliss of knowing that God would give him back to me.

I don't dare try and tackle the rest of this chapter tonight. That will come one of these mornings when the sun is shining, not when it is almost time to sleep.

But for those of you who are already in the same recovery boat as me, or for all those who will be as soon as their WS's tack an F to the front of their title, let me just encourage you that it gets better. And even though not everyone can sing, you each have a weapon at your disposal. Whether it is songs or stories or something entirely different, there is something you have that God can use to help you, and you just have to find out what it is.

Playing music uses a larger percentage of your brain than any other activity, even sex.

On that much happier thought, I can wrap up for tonight. Blessings and hugs to all of you.
I'm happy you seem to be getting better.

Remember that help is ALWAYS availible.

The promises of the Lord will roll on until they will all be fulfulled.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/07/06 07:40 AM
Help is always available, though we don't always recognize it at first.

Not praying for a while is counter-intuitive for me, but most of my songs were prayers anyway, just set to music. It was like spiritual ICU.

I guess I never got around to saying, though anyone might have guessed, but today I had another attack of bad remembrances. Due to my distracted state lately, they got farther than usual but not too far before I recognized them and attacked back. One of the songs I sang was "O Sacred Head, Now Wounded". I only know the first and last verses by memory.

O sacred head, now wounded,
With grief and shame weighed down,
Now scornfully surrounded,
With thorns Thine only crown.
How pale Thou art with anguish,
With sore abuse and scorn,
How does that visage languish,
That once was bright as morn?

What language shall I borrow,
To thank Thee, dearest Friend,
For this, Thy dying sorrow,
Thy pity without end?
Oh, may I be Thine forever,
And shouldst I fainting be,
O let me never, never,
Outlive my love for Thee.

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. Yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we ARE HEALED!

Just dropping a line to let you know I am still here and reading and gathering strength and hope from your thread. Hugs to you and yours for your loss–sorry, I was new to your story when I found this thread to follow-- as well as relatively new to MB.

This way I have stepped up to the plate and hired a PI to confirm if OW is preg or not. PI plans to set up surveillance next week–if she is indeed pregnant she would be moving into her 5th month so I should know more soon. I did send a second NC letter–certified–to Tuesday after the Christmas holiday, and got a response from New Years eve-- have come to the conclusion that OW is not so much trying to get to fwh so much these days as me. Handed off cell phone to one of our company captains Tuesday of this week. Last heard, Ow is still calling, but no more mention of the “something growing inside of her”since one and only time before Christmas and just more of the same pleas for fwh to return to her with some off the wall odd notion that if he only knew the truth he would want to be with her. This ranks up there with “this isn’t how it was suppose to be”. You were suppose to be with me.” charges, go figure.

Oddly enough fwh continues to have no concerns of a possible preg and only humored me with his agreement to hire PI to confirm one way or the other if possible. Of course when he was with a mind to talk about it–before his breakdown–he said he had used condoms and I found enough evidence of –U know remains of box of to confirm they were available and used. Hmm . . .& if there is a deep seeded memory of he’s denying memory of, I guess he would have a better knowledge than I, eh?

Hmm did I mention had OW evicted from condo fwh bought to set her up in? That went as plan, two days before Christmas. She was given eviction notice in Nov and pushed it-- I say this in my own defience 'cause I am nice enough to feel "kinda" bad about eviciting her two days before Christams. Condo manager and sherif arrived to find condo empty so apparently she got out while she could to avoid forcible removal from. PI has confirmed she is now living with her parents again so will be setting up surveillance there next week.

Fwh and I started MC again this week too. This time it went better. Tried and failed before owing to fwh inability to deal with owing to memory loss of A and OW and his charges and belief that he had never loved any woman but me. I think it is beginning to set in so I am praying now that we will be able to begin to move forward in our recovery.

Hugs to you,

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/08/06 02:54 AM
Thanks for the update, Sleepless. If my OW isn't PG, I don't think yours is, either. No logic whatsoever behind that pronouncement, but I hope it makes you feel better. I think the PI is a good idea, especially since she threatened it.

Glad your MC is going better, too. I'm sure that with both of you committed you can still recover well, it just may take longer with the special circumstances of your sitch.

{{{{{{to you too}}}}}}}
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/08/06 03:01 AM
Mom reminded me tonight of my Migration Habits of Jellyfish thread. This was during the resumption of the A, during June. I was honored to receive several direct hits from the Lemonman himself!

Some nice Tylenol, and my all-day headache is almost gone.
Hey Neak,
When AJ does something now to really upset you- something that is not A related, do you have a hard time dealing with it? Mine did something really, really stupid today. It is going to end up costing us 235.00. Money we needed elsewhere.

I went off on him. It was not pretty. Up until then things were going great. Yesterday was an awesome amazing day. Today, was right up there with that. Then, BAM. I couldn't yell - dd and her friend were here, but I did deliver several barbs in a hiss - several very very unkind barbs.

He admitted it was stupid, but then said get over it. Kind of like he did after d-day. It just got all over me. I mumbled something about having to always paint on a happy face for the world to see. He was like what? I said never mind. It doesn't matter.

That is how I feel though, like I have to paint on a happy face. Let everyone see how happy I am. When inside I want to just scream and rant and rave.

I feel better for venting. In a little bit he'll be ready for bed. I really don't feel very loving toward him at the moment. I hate this feeling.

anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/08/06 06:27 PM
The short answer is yes.

The longer answer will be along when I get a chance. But yes, oh yes, oh yes.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 12:01 AM
I cleaned AJ's car for him today and found the last A cell phone bill, which has been missing since early July when he threw it in the back with a bunch of other papers and forgot about it.

It was pretty upsetting for the first few minutes, just having all those A calls all over the place, but I'm better now. I can tell that he got his A phone on the 19th or 20th, which means he was being truthful when he told me he'd had it about a week. Not that I thought he was lying about that, but even at this late date it feels better when I can verify something he said then.

She called him from a local hotel and talked for a while, so I need to ask him about that, but it will be a good chance for us to practice our communication skills. Me non-accusatory, him non-angry.

MoFo, I know exactly what you are talking about. The Love Bank is such a good tool to explain what happens, and I think it must be normal for where we are, but am never quite sure.

AJ does all kinds of nice things on a regular basis, besides just the mandatory stuff. He sends me ecards and love notes, surprises me once in a while with massages, sometimes helps cook, reads me spiritual things he finds exciting, just goes above and beyond the call of duty. All these things make substantial LB deposits.

Then he will make one little mistake, maybe a remark that comes across as snide, or complaining about something I did, and poof! My LB balance is suddenly zero. All his effort wasted, at least it seems that way. And it takes a long time for the loving feelings to build up again, too.

It just doesn't make sense to me. Big balance, small withdrawal, should still mean a pretty big balance left, instead of Black Friday.

One little thing, not even A-related, and the big D plasters itself all over my brain and is very hard to get rid of. Maybe it will at least help to know that it's the same for me, because I don't really have answers to that right now. If I figure them out, I'll let you know.

Oh, I just looked up a few things, and based on work record, etc., my guess about the hotel is she stayed there Saturday night 6/18. Knowing her as I do, of course she tried to get him to join her, but that night is one that I am completely assured that he came straight home from work. I know exactly when he left the site, and exactly when he got home, and nothing was unaccounted for.

Once again I am left shaking my head. This hotel is about 5 minutes from her house. How desperate! How gross! I'd better stop before I get into all the good adjectives!

How nice that he came home instead.
Thanks, Neak.
It is nice he came home that night.

Yeah, the big-d pops up in my mind, Then I think, I stayed with him after an A, why am I freaking out over this?

Sometimes when I know he is upset with me or irritated with me about somethng, I'll wonder if he is going to go have an A again. Most of the time I am able to push that thought out of my head, but twice I have messed up by asking him. He looks a deflated balloon when I have done it. I hate making him feel that way.

Can I ask you something else? Do you still check up on him?

just wondering
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 12:37 AM
I check oodles. It makes me feel better.

As time has gone on, the checking has been oriented more toward making sure she hasn't somehow found a way around the defenses and is trying to reach him, but I still check on him, and will for a long time to come. Probably will forever, just maybe not so many times a day, and maybe not even every day. That's a ways off, though.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 02:23 AM
I have seen more than one person on here whose WS took up with an old flame. It makes me think of my paternal grandmother.

I'm sure my grandfather (not the one who lives with me) was completely hateful to her, and made her life a living pit of ignited sulphur, and she chose to deal with that by having an A.

How bad was it? I know very little (possibly for fear that I will go blabbing it around ), but it was bad enough that my dad, who would have been in his early twenties had to call her and practically drag her from her lover's side to attend her BH's deathbed.

A few years back, she married her lover. A year or less later, they filed for an annulment. Even for old people, A relationships are doomed! You would think that after all those years they might have stood a chance, but no. It was just the same as all the others, and "Grandpa Kenneth" left almost as fast as he arrived.

An A is an A is an A is an A, no matter how many years go by.

There's my happy thought for the day.
"possibly for fear that I will go blabbing it around"

You? Blab about things? Just because we know about the sink, your insides, and everything that the skank did? I'm sure that you do have some secrets that you keep.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 02:45 AM
Maybe. If I think of any, I'll let you know.

LOL - it probably goes with being a writer - how could you write while keeping things secret??????
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 02:54 AM
That sounds like as good an excuse as any...
But to continue on ....... At some date, you are going to have to go on with your life as if this never happened. That's easy for me to say, because my WH is no longer in the picture.

But AJ will need to know that he has been forgiven and gained back what he lost. Has he cleared everything with your church?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 03:13 AM
What do you mean about the church?
Do your leaders know? Is he accountable to any of the men?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/09/06 03:23 AM
We just barely got a new pastor, and have only seen him twice. I'm sure we'll get around to it soon, but shaking hands in the line leaving church wasn't quite the right time. My dad is an elder and he knows and AJ knows that he knows. A couple of the other men know, but I don't know if AJ knows that they know, or not. One of his friends who is not an elder knows, but he's also moving to OR in the next few weeks.

Do you really think I will get to the place where I don't need to check at all?

I try, often successfully, to make sure AJ feels like he has been - and stayed - forgiven, but sometimes he doesn't feel like it if I am having a hard time, even though I don't cast it up at him.
Oh. You can't understand how much it helps to share the problem with your church family. My WH and I have been members of the same church for 20 years. We were very active. WH was in different men's groups, went on the men's retreats, and did a lot of volunteer work.

I have led women's recovery groups and been active in a lot of ministries.

After D-day, I hesitated to tell people at church. I was so shocked and hurt. At about the 6 month mark, I requested prayers for our marriage. The pastors contacted me, and the story came out.

WH was asked to meet with the pastors, and not attend church anymore until he did. Of course, he refused, as he was living with the OW.

Had he come in, he would have had other men to talk to and have accountability.

I can't tell you what a relief it was to have everything revealed.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/10/06 07:14 AM
That sounds like a very good idea.

It has kind of surprised me how much more freely he talks about it now. He doesn't walk up to perfect strangers and say, "Hi, I'm AJ & I have had an affair," but he has told most of his friends. (But most of them don't go to church.) We will talk to the pastor when we are able to have a more private conversation, but I don't think he (AJ) will mind telling others, either. Now that his glory is in the Cross, he is on an equal footing with all the rest of us forgiven sinners. He feels ashamed still of what he did, but not to the degree of needing to hide it as he wanted to at first.

We had such a nice day today. It was a last-second thing, but the kids and I went with him on his errands and just got back a little bit ago. Among other things, he had to renew his firearms class, since somebody snitched to his work that his cert was expired. The kids & I sat in the car till he was done, then went to supper together.

The last couple of days have been the 'uppest' the roller coaster has gone so far. If only it would stay up. If only I weren't on mandatory pelvic rest, so I could do some testing and see if the improvement has carried over into other areas, as well. Rats!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/11/06 07:44 AM
Had some interesting convos today that reminded me of a few things. I don't think I had put this on here, and I'll say it again even if I did. It is a little scary not knowing for sure, but I'm too lazy to check. It always feels like when Grandma told the same stories over and over. "I don't know if I've ever told you this before, but..." "Yes, Grandma, you have. Twice. Today." Ok, I'm not that bad yet.

This was on PBL2 day, when Gargy showed up at the install site, and I went down to confront AJ. In the long discussion we had when he got home, one thing he said has stuck with me. (Well, more than one thing, but I've told you most of them.) Anyway, he said, "I realized that when you came down there today, it was because you love me."

It must have been another of those aha moments. He never said, but I don't think I'm wrong in guessing that he had been hearing quite a lot about my 'manipulations' and such. I know she worked very hard to foment his discontent with reporting to me all the time, and did what she could to encourage the disgruntled parolee attitude.

She would have had only a few seconds in that very brief phone call, you know, the one saying EEEK DON'T COME SHE'S HERE!!!!!!!!!, but surely enough time to throw in, "I can't believe she's at it again - how long are you going to put up with this from her?" Or something similar.

And yet, once he thought about it, AJ was able to see for himself that my record of loving care stood alone, and untouched despite her every effort to tarnish it. And he saw that in coming to confront him for his deceptions and continuing betrayal, it was another manifestation of that love. (He also saw pretty plainly that it was the last such manifestation unless he made some rapid, huge changes, which he did.)

Not that my months of work didn't matter at all until then, but in that instant they came into sharp focus, and he saw me and my efforts for exactly what they were. He also saw the mud-slinging pot-stirrer for what she was, and the contrast was stunning to him.

Just for the record, it is not too hard to compete with an unrepentant OP. You just have to be patient till the WS 'get it', and of course a few never do.

The clothes ought to be dry by now, so I'm going to grab them and go to bed. Today was another good day, and there seem to be more of those lately.

Once again, congratulations to Shattered, who is opening reconciliation talks with her WH, who is getting tired of being a WH. That kind of good news is always welcome in a place like this.

Sweet dreams, all.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/11/06 07:46 AM
Oh, I see I need to extend the same congratulations to losttranslation as well. Good work!

Back to your sweet dreams now.

Oh, I see I need to extend the same congratulations to losttranslation as well. Good work!

Back to your sweet dreams now.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/16/06 05:39 AM
This is going to look like terrible jealousy now. Kind of what Mr. Finley does to Neaksis every time the hated Princess Anika tries to nuzzle her new owner. Things like leaping, pushing, shoving, and dancing, trying to keep Neaksis' attention focused on him.

AJ is in Berkely right now, helping Neakbro move the last of the stuff out of his apartment. They were kind enough to ask, but there wasn't much of a choice about whether my brother could bring his couch here. So I reluctantly said yes.

I don't care so much what it does to my furniture arranging, since I probably won't be here that much longer anyway, but it bothers me a little that she likely sat on it.

I have never been to my brother's apartment, but he could take her there. (Dectable note of bitterness in tone.) And unless she stood by the doorway, she had to sit somewhere, and there was not much furniture in that little dinky apartment.

But I am just venting, hopefully to get it all out of my system before they get home. Because I am fully aware that if it continues to bother me, all I have to do is ask him to move it out after all, and I would have no problem doing that. I just didn't expect to have a reaction to something silly like someone else's couch. (I had no trouble at all understanding why I didn't want that blasted futon she bought for the office.)

Things have been going well, and there hasn't been much new to tell, though today I found out that one of our pre-A problems that I thought was long-gone and forgotten, isn't. Don't have any idea what to do, maybe nothing can be done at all. It's just discouraging to find out that it's still there.

To avoid being too too depressing if I can can, here is a blonde joke one of my friends sent me:

A Blonde's year in review:

> January - took new scarf back to store because it was too tight.

> February - fired from pharmacy job for failing to print labels..."duh"... bottles won't fit in typewriter.

> March - got excited...finished jigsaw puzzle in 6 said..."2-4 years"!

> April - trapped on escalator for hours...power went out!

> May - tried to make Kool-Aid...8 cups of water won't fit those little packets!!!

> June - tried to go water skiing...couldn't find a lake with a slope.

> July - lost breast stroke swimming competition...learned later, other swimmers cheated, they used their arms.

> August - Got locked out of car in rain swamped, because top was down.

> September - the capital of California is "C"...isn't it?

> October - Hate M & M's...they are so hard to peel.

> November - Baked turkey for 4 1/2 days...instructions say 1 hour per pound... I weigh 108!!!

> December - couldn't call 911.."duh"... there's no "eleven" button on the phone!!!

> What a year!!!

A Blonde's year in review:

> January - took new scarf back to store because it was too tight.

> February - fired from pharmacy job for failing to print labels..."duh"... bottles won't fit in typewriter.

> March - got excited...finished jigsaw puzzle in 6 said..."2-4 years"!

> April - trapped on escalator for hours...power went out!

> May - tried to make Kool-Aid...8 cups of water won't fit those little packets!!!

> June - tried to go water skiing...couldn't find a lake with a slope.

> July - lost breast stroke swimming competition...learned later, other swimmers cheated, they used their arms.

> August - Got locked out of car in rain swamped, because top was down.

> September - the capital of California is "C"...isn't it?

> October - Hate M & M's...they are so hard to peel.

> November - Baked turkey for 4 1/2 days...instructions say 1 hour per pound... I weigh 108!!!

> December - couldn't call 911.."duh"... there's no "eleven" button on the phone!!!

> What a year!!!

Do you know what's brown, red & lying in a ditch???

A Brunette that's told one too many blonde jokes!!!

Good Luck with the couch!

Mrs. W
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/16/06 06:34 AM
LOLOLOL!!! Thanks, Mrs. W.
Slipcovers? LOL!
Well I have a smart blond joke:

This blond walks into a bank in NYC and asks for a $5000 loan so she can take a business trip to Europe. She promises to pay it back when she returns in 3 weeks.

After a credit check clears her, the bank manager asks her for collateral. She asks if her Rolls Royce parked out front will do. The manager offers her a ride to the airport and they'll store the car in their parking lot for the 3 weeks. She agrees.

When she returns, the bank manager approaches her and states that he found out she has millions sitting in accounts everywhere, so why did she need a loan to pay for this trip?

She responds as she pays the $5,000 plus $150 interest...

Where else can I park my car in NYC for 3 weeks?
2 blondes are standing on opposite sides of a river. The first one calls to the second and says, "Tell me how to get to the other side of this river."

And the second one calls back, "You are on the other side!"

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/19/06 12:54 PM
I'm still laughing about brownandredandlyinginaditch!

There's always my old favorite, How do you get a blonde out of a tree? Wave...

How many blondes does it take to play tag? One.

Did you hear about the blonde coyote that got stuck in a trap? It chewed off three legs, and it was still stuck.

I'd better stop before that ditch gets any closer.

Neaksis said she was going to report me to CPS - Couch Protective Services. And that was before it started to rain. Well, I wasn't the one who did it. I even helped move it into the garage before it got too badly soaked. (And then went and washed my hands.) Fortunately, I mean, um, it was so sad that my brother's cats had made it so that even though he cleaned it, it still needs to air out for oh, a couple of months or so before it comes inside. Shucks.

The other day I was talking to a friend whose WH uses her A as his excuse for his A. "You started it!" When I mentioned this to AJ, he couldn't believe that anybody would give such a lame excuse, and cast around blame in that manner.

As gently as I possibly could, I pointed out that he had been even worse, blaming me every time Gargamel cried or was upset. He looked skeptical, so I mentioned one of the specific instances. (This was on the way back from the 2nd trip to Carson City, where we had all the kids, and he was going to break up with her that night when we got back, but she must have sensed this and kept leaving him all kinds of weepy, whiny messages.) He told me, very angrily, "She's up there crying and upset, and it's all because of YOU!!!!!"

He seemed rather surprised, but I clearly believed what I was saying, and remembered it just fine. He was falling asleep anyway, so nothing could have been more natural than for the conversation to trail away as he began to snore.

It was quite funny, because he knows I won't lie, and yet he couldn't believe he had said that.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/19/06 05:36 PM
This is the approximate 1 yr mark since he first said he was leaving. Has it really been that long?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/19/06 09:26 PM
For any of you who needed a smile today.......

You know you're from California if:

1. Your coworker has 8 body piercings and none are visible.

2. You make over $300,000 and still can't afford a house.

3. You take a bus and are shocked at two people carrying on a conversation in English.

4. Your child's 3rd-grade teacher has purple hair, a nose ring, and is named Flower.

5. You can't remember . . . . . is pot illegal?

6. You've been to a baby shower that has two mothers and a sperm donor.

7. You have a very strong opinion about where your coffee beans are grown, and you can taste the difference between Sumatran and Ethiopian.

8. You can't remember . . . is pot illegal?

9. A really great parking space can totally move you to tears.

10. Gas costs $1.00 per gallon more than anywhere else in the U.S.

11. Unlike back home, the guy at 8:30 am at Starbucks wearing a baseball cap and sunglasses who looks like George Clooney really IS George Clooney.

12. Your car insurance costs as much as your house payment.

13. You can't remember . . . .is pot illegal?

14. It's barely sprinkling rain and there's a report on every news station: "STORM WATCH."

15. You pass an elementary school playground and the children are all busy with their cells or pagers.

16. It's barely sprinkling rain outside, so you leave for work an hour early to avoid all the weather-related accidents.

17. HEY!!!! Is pot illegal????

18. Both you AND your dog have therapists.

19. The Terminator is your governor.

20. If you drive illegally, they take your driver's license. If you're here illegally, they want to give you one.

It's all true, every word of it!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/20/06 07:21 AM
Today was not so bad, as trigger days go. Especially since this is my first known(ish) 1 yr anniversary. What with the kids' class, a dr.'s appt (no more pelvic rest, but AJ fell asleep cuz he has to wake up @ 3am ), and several long errands, there wasn't too much time for even a small pity party.

One good thing about today is that I went by & found out that they got Dillon's headstone installed. I felt so much better when I saw it, as if he was finally tucked in properly.

My purse spent 2 nights in the car, & today when I opened it, a mouse had gotten in through a tiny hole - it was made that way, not chewed - and eaten the kids' candy from their favorite Safeway manager. Guess why he's their favorite? You know it's bad when you have to put mousetraps in the car.

Also, since she probably won't mention it, Mom's birthday is the 21st. She'll be 62. Maybe the little scraps of confetti all over the floor, left over from excessive scissor use, is from what the kids are giving her for a present. Either that, or it's one more reason why vacuums are a woman's best friend.

Ok, ok, before I get killed plumb dead, Mom is actually going to be 58. In case anyone doesn't feel like doing the math, she was born in 1948. And in case she doesn't feel old enough already, her oldest daughter is thirty-three!!!!! LOLOLOLO---



I'm going to put the frozen food away and go to bed. Tomorrow is the first day of the rest of my life.

I need to remember that. I will remind myself often.

The part about tomorrow, not the frozen food.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/23/06 05:45 AM
Since I don't have time to be philosophical, I am just putting a shout out to all my buddies. How are you doing??? What's up? Do you need to vent? Let me know how you are.

Hugs to all, and sweet dreams.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/06 04:52 AM
Well, I'm still thinking of you all, anyway.

Mom said she wished I could have had the above-referenced story ("It's all your fault the OW is crying") on tape so I could play it back to him. The big problem is it would also play back me, also crying, and saying things like, "I'm so sorry, I never meant for her to get hurt," and other equally nauseating blame hogging.

I was not born wearing the Red Cape of Power, you know. I had to learn how to use it just like everyone else, and maybe even slower than some.

Today, the mail contained a notice that Gargamel has sent me a certified letter, which I don't know if I should return unopened, or just forward on to Mom, poor Mom, or the attorney, poor attorney. (If she causes too much trouble, I would not blame him a bit if he started charging extra just for her.)

Any thoughts are welcome, but the main reaons I mention this is that I had not even realized how much progress I have made in reclaiming my daily thoughts, until the reminder of her malignant presence once again smacked me in the face. At least she got the 'r' in Mrs. this time, if the postal worker copied the name correctly.

Although I thought I was perfectly calm and cool, AJ immediately asked me what was wrong, so either I was excessively transparent, or he is actually in tune with my feelings. Or some of each.

I just can't believe how much I healed once I no longer had all the nasty C and so many reminders of her existence, and it is disconcerting to have some of that torn open again by a little piece of brown paper in my mailbox.

But I think it will re-heal more quickly, too. I did not feel resentment toward AJ for this, as would normally happen, and even if I was obviously startled by it, I went on about my life. Just before he nodded off to sleep, he pulled me close and said, "I love you so much, my wife." That alone helped a lot.

And soon will come the happy day when she sends something here and it will return to her again stamped, "RETURN TO SENDER: NOT AT THIS ADDRESS". Even if she finds us later, that thought should be enough for a few grins.

So that's my big day.

Please say a prayer for a friend of the MB board, who is planning to enter the peace of B tomorrow. Of course she is terrified, and assailed by doubts, have I done enough, have I changed enough, what if I should do more, etc. But she is losing love for her WH & knows it must be done quickly.

Hopefully she will soon be free to come back on here herself.

or just forward on to Mom, poor Mom, or the attorney, poor attorney.

ME????????????????????????? What have you got against me? What did I ever do to you?

Besides that.

Send it to the attorney. I'll pay for him to deal with it if he charges extra.

Hey, did you know if you leave the "r" out of her MB name (kind of like she left the "r" out of "Mrs."), that she becomes "Gagamel"?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/06 05:03 AM
LOLOL! And you chide me when I am naughty!

Do you realize that if you leave the 'r' out of her real name it doesn't change it at all?!?!?
Why? Because there isn't an "r" in it?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/06 05:06 AM
Except that her middle name would be Katheine. Oh well.


Katheine, huh? No wonder you were nervous and twitchy. Glad to know you've switched to de-Kath. And not a moment too soon, either.

I'm going to play Text Twist for a little while and then go to bed. You need to be getting your stuff ready to mail out tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/06 05:11 AM
Does anybody here work for the IRS? I can give you her SSN, and you can schedule her for a nice audit.

La la, I'm thinking of something else now. Down that road lies the Dark Side.

I know, I'll think of cars. Subarus, Fords, Chevys, GMC's, Hyundais, Audis, speaking of Audis, that reminds me of audits...

Maybe I'd better think of celebrities instead. Teri Hatcher, Tom Selleck, Connie Selleca, Damon Wayans, Jessica Simpson, now there's an odd ditz....odd ditz....oddditz...

I'm going to go eat a big bowl of ice cream!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/06 12:17 PM
Just for the record, Neaksis votes for just ignoring it and letting the PO send it back when their deliveries expire.

Just wait till she has a chance to tell you about her 3 Stooges adventures last night helping our friend report that child molestor. Though if she has to go down again this morning for Round 2 it might be a little while.

For a foretaste, picture: "Try to keep my children away from their rapist long enough for me to go and report him - thanks - bye!" It was almost that bad. They are very dear people, but also the poster children for Lemonman's tag line.

I've got the dishwasher cranked up, my tummy full of hot chocolate, and the Dervish is asleep. Life is good!
Posted By: Neak Dr. Phil's Test - 01/24/06 10:44 PM
I swiped this from Mom's email to me. These little tests are always so much fun!


Dr Phil's Test: Here you go. Try this!

Below is Dr Phil's test. (Dr. Phil scored 55; he did this test on Oprah - she got a 38.) Some folks pay a lot of money to find this stuff out!

Read on, this is very interesting!

Don't be overly sensitive! The following is pretty accurate and it only takes 2 minutes. Take this test for yourself and send it to your friends.

The person who sent it placed their score in the e-mail subject box. P lease do the same before forwarding to your friends (send it back to the person who Sent it to you.) Don't peek, but begin the test as you scroll down and answer.

Answers are for who you are now...... not who you were in the past. Have pen or pencil and paper ready. This is a real test given by the Human Relations Dept. at many of the major corporations today.
It helps them get better insight concerning their empl! oyees and prospective employees. It's only 10 Simple questions, so...grab a pencil and paper,
keeping track of your letter answers to each question.

Make sure to change the subject of the e-mail to read YOUR total. When you are finished, forward this to friends/family, and also send it to the person who sent this to you. Make sure to put YOUR
score in the subject box.



1. When do you feel your best?
a) in the morning
b) during the afternoon &and early evening
c) late at night

2. You usually walk...
a) fairly fast, with long steps
b) fairly fast, with little steps
c) less fast head up, looking the world in the face
d) less fast, head down
e) very slowly

3. When talking to people you..
a) stand with your arms folded
b) have your hands clasped
c) have one or both your hands on your hips
d) touch or push the person to whom you are talking
e) play with your ear, ! touch your chin, or smooth your hair

4. When relaxing, you sit with..
a) your knees bent with your legs neatly side by side
b) your legs crossed
c) your legs stretched out or straight
d) one leg curled under you

5. When something really amuses you, you react with...
a) big appreciated laugh
b) a laugh, but not a loud one
c) a quiet chuckle
d) a sheepish smile

6. When you go to a party or social gathering you...
a) make a loud entrance so everyone notices you
b) make a quiet entrance, looking arou nd for someone you know
c) make the quietest entrance, trying to stay unnoticed

7. You're working very hard, concentrating hard, and you're interrupted......

a) welcome the break
b) feel extremely irritated
c) vary between these two extremes

8. Which of the following c olors do you like most?
a) Red or orange
b) black
c) yellow or light blue
d) green
e) dark blue or purple
f) white
g) brown or gray

9. When you are in bed at night, in those last few moments before going to sleep you are..
a) stretched out on your back
b) stretched out face down on your stomach
c) on your side, slightly curled
d) with your head on one arm
e) with your head under the covers

10. You often dream that you are...
a) falling
b) fighting or struggling
c) searching for something or somebody
d) flying or floating
e) you usually have dreamless sleep
f) your dreams are always pleasant

1. (a) 2 (b) 4 (c) 6
2. (a) 6 (b) 4 (c) 7 (d) 2 (e) 1

3. (a) 4 (b) 2 (c) 5 (d) 7 (e) 6
4. (a) 4 ( b) 6 (c) 2 (d) 1
5. (a) 6 (b) 4 (c) 3 (d) 5 (e) 2
6. (a) 6 (b) 4 (c) 2
7. (a) 6 (b) 2 (c) 4
8. (a) 6 (b) 7 (c) 5 (d) 4 (e) 3 (f) 2 (g) 1
9. (a) 7 (b) 6 (c) 4 (d) 2 (e) 1
10. (a) 4 (b) 2 (c) 3 (d) 5 (e) 6 (f) 1

Now add up the total number of points.

OVER 60 POINTS: Others see you as someone they should "handle with care." You're seen as vain, self-centered, and who is extremely dominant. Others may admire you, wishing they could be more like
you, but don't always trust you, hesitating to become too deeply involved with you.

51 TO 60 POINTS: Others see you as an exciting, highly volatile, rather impulsive personality; a natural leader, who's quick to make decisions, though not always the right ones. They see you as bold and
adventuresome, someone who will try anything once; someone who takes chances and enjoys an adventure. They enjoy being in your company
because of the exciteme! nt you radiate.

41 TO 50 POINTS: Other s see you as fresh, lively, charming, amusing, practical, and always interesting; someone who's constantly in the center of attention, but sufficiently well-balanced not to let it go to their head. They also see you as kind, considerate, and understanding; someone who'll always cheer them up and help them out.

31 TO 40 POINTS: Others see you as sensible, cautious, careful & practical. They see you as clever, gifted, or talented, but modest. Not a person who makes friends too quickly or easily, but someone
who's extremely loyal to friends you do make and who expect the same loyalty in return. Those who really get to know you realize it takes a lot to shake your trust In your friends, but equally that it takes you a long time to get over if that trust is ever broken.

21 TO 30 POINTS: Your friends see you as painstaking and fussy. They see you as very cautious, extremely careful, a slow and steady plodder. It would! really surprise them if you ever did somethi ng
impulsively or on the spur of the moment, expecting you to examine everything carefully from every angle and then, usually decide against it. They think this reaction is caused partly by your careful nature.

UNDER 21 POINTS: People think you are shy, nervous, and indecisive, someone who needs looking after, who always wants someone else to make the decisions & who doesn't want to get involved with
anyone or anything! They see you as a worrier who always sees problems that don't exist. Some people think you're boring. Only those who know you well know that you aren't.

So as not to break my perfect record for soul-baring, my answers were: 1-A, 2-A, 3-A, 4-B, 5-B, 6-B, 7-C, 8-A, 9-B, 10-B. It totals 44, so I am simply wonderful! Only one point less wonderful than Mom.

I demand a recount!
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/25/06 02:03 AM
One last little exorcism just took place. I had forgotten till now that I still had her information in my email address book, so I went and deleted it, as long as I was trying to get her off the brain anyway. (In another 50 years or so maybe I will forget her phone numbers.)

One more little bit of distance gained.

I said on Idiotville, but not here, I was ablt to get the post office to forward that letter directly to the attorney, so that is another very good thing.

Speaking of long-overdue tasks, I think I'll go take down the Christmas tree tonight.
Posted By: believer Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/25/06 02:38 AM
Neak, I got 50. But I see myself as more in the 31 to 40 point range as far as characteristics. Tonight I'm going to sleep with my head under the covers.
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/25/06 03:01 AM
But 50 is a really good score, right? LOL!!
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/25/06 03:02 AM
I would sleep with my head under the covers, out of sympathy, but not when AJ's around.
Posted By: moveforward Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 03:43 AM
Hey there.
Just wanted to say happy seven months. How's it going for you? I've had a couple of off days but overall it is going well.

The FOWs birthday is this week so I that is in my head. I had planned to do something special for us that day, but I have to work out of town that day.

He bought me a beautiful ring for Chiristmas. It is an opal and I love wearing it. I have hardly taken it off since Christmas. Work right now is different from the norm- nery physical and using my hands a lot. I cracked the opal yesterday. Thankfully, he bought the warranty. It is now being repaired. I'll have it back one day before FOW's bday.

My very dear friend is seriusly ill. They have given her about 2 months to live. She called me at 10 last night to tell me. Needless to say last night was not a good night. He held me and let me cry for most of the night. He has been very sweet all day in just letting me talk and keeping me positive.

Most days I don't dwell on it. I am having to drive a lot right now which gives me too much time to think. Had one day last week where I practiced the screaming in the car as a stress releiver.

Things really are getting better.

One night this week our dd was spending the night with a friend so we were by ourselves. He said "I'm really looking forward to growing old with you - just the two of us. I really like us being together." That made my week.

Because work is so busy in this time of the year, I know I neglected everything last year and let the A flourish during this time. I have been trying so hard to not let that happen this year. I have even cooked supper after 11-12 hour days.

He offered for us to eat out but we are trying to save money. He has even helped in cleaning up the kitchen.

Anyway, things are moving along.

Hope things are ok with you.
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 07:13 AM
What a surprise, when I came on here to vent about my tale of woe, to find this thread already back on page 1. So happy 7-month anniversary to you, too, and that explains everything! (Glad to hear you are chugging right along & that your H is making the huge deposit that always goes along with domestic chores.)

It started last Saturday, when the kids recorded one of their favorite shows on TBN, called K 10 C. This stands for Kids' Ten Commandments. It is a neat, if occasionally minorly inaccurate program. (For example, in their episode about the Sabbath, the man who broke it just had to fill in the hole he was digging, and wait till after sundown, instead of being stoned. Hey, that's understandable - cartoon stonings on a kids' show might be considered too intense, even for the sake of authenticity.) Well, this time around was about adultery.

Even watered down sufficiently to make it appropriate for children, i.e. no billowing tent walls, it was still far more than I am able to see, and I had to leave the room every time they watched it. And need I say it was their new favorite??? As much as I couldn't stand it myself, it is such an important lesson for them to begin learning early, that I couldn't find it in myself to delete it, either. Even after the stunning question (in front of AJ), "Mom, what's adultery?" If I were an unkind person, I would simply have said, "Ask your father."

Then, as you know, the next item was the certified letter, which I have not heard anything about from the attorney, by the way, so it can't have been too important.

Tuesday night, as I drove in to join AJ at the hospital, I was surprised at the huge wave of flashbacks from the previous time at the hospital where he met her, and had her go in with him. (Different hospital.) I had to keep reminding myself, rather like a mantra, "This time, he called me. This time, he called me. This time..."

Wednesday and Thursday were the worst of all. Our doctor's office is up past the Evil Lair, and it is miles to go around through another town and come in from the back way. Normally, that is what we do. But because of his urgent need of medical care, and the last-minute nature of each appointment, we had to go the regular way in order to make it.

Wednesday in some ways was the worst. I was driving, because he was still in pretty bad shape. I was edgy the whole trip, but when we turned off the highway to take the road up the hill my blood pressure must have shot through the roof. About 2 miles later, when we reached the stop light and went across into firm Gargamel territory, I began to slip into a coma.

AJ surely knew this was bothering me somewhat, and tried to keep chatting to divert me. But when he put his hand comfortingly on my leg, I began to cry. Fortunately, as long as I am trying to hold tears back, they almost always come out of my left eye only. Weird. But I didn't dare try and talk about it in front of the kids, and by the time we passed Neaksis' kids' school I would have been incoherent anyway.

Keep in mind, I have driven past any number of times without him in the last seven months, and only have to pat my hackles down afterwards, and concentrate on stopping the growls bubbling up deep in my throat. It is very different when he is there, and it stirs up all the deep feelings that have lain dormant for a long time now.

We had a long wait in the lobby, for all our hurry, and sanity slowly returned. I just leaned over on AJ's shoulder, his arm around me, and tried to find my Happy Place. By the time we went in I was much better, able to read to the children and converse with AJ & the staff.

I thought I was off the hook after that, because his next appointment was Monday, and it would be simple to leave early enough to go around then. But the stupid refinery doctor wanted that stupid urine test to try and find traces of that stupid benzene or whatever. We spent almost all day waiting to hear back if our dr.'s lab could do the test, then at about 3 they called us all hurry up, how fast can you get in here, we need you right now.

So it was back into the fire again. AJ felt up to driving, and I think maybe that is why I didn't comatose myself as badly as before. I just held his kindly-offered hand in a death grip and looked out my window at the other side of the road from her house. Oh, and cried the whole way up. Stupid left eye. Makes no sense at all, but even crying more I was way more conscious, and recovered faster after.

We will definitely go the other way around on Monday, not that there was ever any doubt. I think another time of that would finish me off completely.

In addition to stirring up all the same old feelings even more than the hospital trip had done, I worried terribly that even that much exposure to the Horrid Hotbed of Heated Lust would somehow make him miss her, or talk to her, or even go back to her.

So it poisoned my dreams. I spent the whole night in turmoil, several times even waking up and then falling right back into the same nightmare. We had decided to give her a $1,000 gift card for one of the payments , and he was supposed to mail it. Instead, he took it in person, and they had been talking every since. I found out when he slipped up mentioning how he had rung her doorbell.

So I spent the whole night sick and scooted over as close to the edge of the bed as I could to avoid touching him (that part was real), while in my mind I plunged unhesitatingly into Plan B, and drove around from one friend to the next trying to find a haven away from him so I could prepare the divorce papers. Thus the hours of the night ticked away.

You can bet I was a real bundle of sunshine when I woke up.

While I was still in transition between sleep and wakefulness, he tossed aside the 36-pound tumor that had crept between us during the night, and pulled me close to snuggle. It was all I could do not to run, except I was too tired to run. I had to tell myself quite firmly that he had actually done nothing wrong, and that it was perfectly acceptable to curl up with my own husband, whom I WAS NOT in the process of divorcing.

Thus begins Month 8 of recovery.

For all that, I'm doing very well now, even better for having gotten all that off my chest. I think I will have nice dreams tonight, maybe containing a natural disaster or maneating lion. Those are often quite fun. But if any of you see Gargamel, please tell her she is no longer welcome in my sleep-life, either. And can anyone more techno-savvy than I tell me how to block her address from my dreamail box?

Before I go to bed, I think I will go see if I can find where I hid the three mint cookies so the kids wouldn't find them. I hid them a little too well, and this is the third day I haven't been able to find them, kind of like a blonde squirrel.

Hope everybody is well, and a Shabbat Shalom to us all!
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 08:35 AM
I never did find the mint cookies, but I ran across some hard candy I had forgotten about. I hope the little ratscals didn't already find them. They were my favorite kind, too, like girl scout cookies only cheaper.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 03:21 PM

I just leaned over on AJ's shoulder, his arm around me, and tried to find my Happy Place.

In the DOCTOR'S office?

Posted By: believer Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 04:27 PM
The doctor's office, the bathroom sink, the whole world is her playground.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 04:34 PM
She didn't get it from ME, that's for doggone sure!

Posted By: believer Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 04:37 PM
Haha. But I love that a Christian woman has so much ........
What would you call it anyway?????

I have lots of Christian women friends who are so up-tight when it comes to sex with their husbands. We need to enjoy what the Lord has provided.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 04:44 PM
I would call it excessive, that's what I would call it! But that's just me. And it has nothing to do with Christianity, either, although I know that religiosity has that effect on some people.

I've never discussed my own sexual issues on this forum, in any thread. My daughters read everything they see that I've written, and even as adults, it's possible to know TOO MUCH about your parents' private lives. Let's just say that, unexpectedly for me, sex became a point of conflict early on, which had some very inhibiting effects on my joyous participation in it.

Posted By: believer Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 04:53 PM
I think part of it is the constant admonishments not to have sex (before marriage). After marriage that stuff sticks in some women's minds. Now it is OKAY to do all those things you tried not to do for 10 years or so.

I'm lucky - for my upbringing (Catholic and Quaker), I ended up with a healthy view on married sex. Now if I just had someone to practice on.
Posted By: still seeking Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 07:40 PM
My feeling is that most bad dreams/thoughts come from our fears. Until the fears are gone, they continue.

In your case, it will take time, but is there more AJ, or anyone else can do to help take them away? Think about that one.

The reason singing works is that we can really only think aout one thing at a time, and if you are singing something good, it replaces the bad in your mind.

It only works when you are awake though. So, think about what you fear and why. Knowing WHY might help in your on going fight to be rid of these thoughts.

Posted By: still seeking Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/28/06 07:48 PM
I think you are right. We hear NO, NO, NO, NO.
and it is hard to go from that to

It might be better if we thought of it as
Not yet, Not yet, not yet
and then

I think it could stand some work.

I'm sorry it turned bad early on. We are finding it a beautiful thing, more so than when we were young. Love and trust are the best foundation. Trust plays a bigger part than many think and that is emotional trust. Knowing that we won't be hurt for sharing our selves.

I am leaving for a few days on business, see everyone when I get back.


I hope Neak finds the cookies before someone else does. I'll share the secret of saving cookies at our house. My W puts it in a brown bag, and writes "dad's lunch tomorrow" on anyting she wants to the kids to stay out of. It seems to work.
Who me? No, I'm the nicest guy around? Why do you ask?
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/29/06 01:07 AM

I'm sorry it turned bad early on.

Sigh. My heritages are in conflict. My Explanationarian heritage is waging fierce war with my Inhibitionite heritage. I believe I've arranged a truce between them, and will say this, just once, and then the subject is C-L-O-S-E-D.

There's nothing wrong with my body. I don't think there's anything wrong with my head, either, regardless of what opposing opinions you might hear from others. I am as capable of physical satisfaction as the next person (or at least I was back in the days when physical satisfaction was offered --one can only assume nothing has changed since!) but there is no emotional component left. I can get a more fulfilling emotional involvement out of scratching a mosquito bite. (Hey! Some of those puppies really, REALLY itch, and scratching them feels so-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o good!) I don't know of any way to restore the emotional missing pieces. Certainly I'm not going to be able to restore them by myself. And without emotional intimacy, as far as I'm concerned, sex is just like scratching another itch.

OK, let's go back to being amused, shocked, titillated, or otherwise entertained by Neak's marital, um, exploits.

Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/29/06 05:31 AM
It never occurred to me I would have to specify which Happy Place.

Admonishments not to have sex before marriage never slowed me down a bit after. I must have been in the 'not yet' crowd, then NOW!!!!

I do like sex, freely and uninhibitedly. It is a wonderful gift of God. I feel I should somehow acknowledge the soul-baring post above, but since it involves sex and my parents, I find myself curiously speechless.

SS, I will keep thinking, but so far have not come up with any ways yet that anyone can help alleviate my fears, of things that are not already being done, and done well. Give me a little while and I will figure out how to sing in my sleep, though it may wreak havoc with the other members of the household.

2:00 am in the Neak household. All is quiet and dark, and then...


And all the dogs in the neighborhood start howling.

"Wake up, Sweetheart, you're doing it again."
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/29/06 05:52 AM

It never occurred to me I would have to specify which Happy Place.

Well, let it occur now, and from henceforth, forevermore. Who knew you had another?


I feel I should somehow acknowledge the soul-baring post above

That wasn't soul-baring. Soul-baring would have involved details, which, I assure you, are not forthcoming. At least Believer ought to feel better now, finally having some first-hand proof that there are some things even WE won't talk about in "public."


I find myself curiously speechless.

Hold that thought, girlie! I may not get to visit you for a couple of days yet, and I want to see this before it goes away!!

Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/29/06 04:22 PM
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/30/06 04:54 AM
Just a teeny interesting thought that occurred to AJ the other day.

We were discussing an MB friend, whose sitch has become a nice, safe way to talk about A-related things. At the moment we were laughing at her spying ineptitude(sorry MB Friend, but it's true), which made him think of the mobile surveillance that someone did on him while he was in the A.

For some months post-A, all my heartfelt protestations to the contrary, and even with direct quotes from my very honest mother, he was SURE she was the one who had had him followed.

Now it has occurred to him that probably Gargamel had him followed, or just followed him herself in an unfamiliar vehicle, then when he called to complain to her she made sure he thought it had to be me. Very clever, very devious, and right up her alley. He was never followed when she was with him, oddly enough, so he's likely right.

And I apologized to him for one of the few lies I told him during the A, and just hadn't thought of till he brought it up. At the time, I told him I believed him about someone following him, and as the stories got wilder, really I didn't. I believe him now, because the times someone followed him are one of the few things he still remembers clearly, and the stories have never changed.

I am an unhappy camper, having to do the W-2's for the corp, but am brave enough to tally up hers without actually breaking anything. Neaksis or Mom will fill hers in for me, as the corp does not have a typewriter and can't afford to buy one lol, and that way she doesn't even get the satisfaction of a government-mandated response from me.

AJ is improving, but still gets very out of breath every time he has to get up to spank one of the children. Surely he won't be going back to work after tomorrow. I figure if he's not better enough to break up two fighting kids, he's not better enough to break up two fighting men. JM(ns)HO!
Posted By: Neak Re: Dr. Phil's Test - 01/30/06 05:46 PM
I dreamed about her last night again, but this time I was much more in control of things.

She made the cover of our local church magazine, the one that covers CA, HI, AZ, and maybe a couple of others. She had joined the church, been baptized, and the whole feature article was about her "conversion". There were lots of pictures of her, her sister (she actually does not have a sister), and her Mom, up front at different churches, singing and talking.

In one part of the article she spoke of her lost love, and even mentioned AJ by his first name. Even in my sleep that got me all het up.

So I immediately called the staff, told them the true situation, and offered to send them proof that it had really been an affair. They were so nice and apologetic, and were going to print a retraction in the next article. Then everyone would know the truth.

So I guess that ended up scoring 1 for the Neakster.

Speaking of the Recorder, Mom, I am going to look up the link and send to you, so check your email later when you get up.

I was also awakened briefly just after 4am, by the blaring sounds of The Magic School Bus. I sent the Dervish back to bed, and not very nicely, either.
Posted By: Neak Copycat - 01/31/06 02:12 AM
Neak (temporarily) jumps on the bandwagonville.

Bwaaaahaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa NCWalkerville!!!!!!

Posted By: tucktummy Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 02:24 AM
Posted By: RiverTam Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 02:27 AM
Sheesh! I'm not even going to ATTEMPT interpreting THAT dream!

Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 02:46 AM
Cheek is my middle name.
Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 02:46 AM
They call me Neakcheek for short.
Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 04:12 AM
One of life's little ironies was that, after all our effort in going the long way around to the doctor, when we stopped by Taco Bell on the way out her car was at the other end of the little shopping center, in front of Mailboxes, Etc.

For whatever reason, it didn't bother me as much as going past her at her house. It was just to the level of patting my hackles back down before I told AJ. Well, we do what we can, and if that's not enough to keep from bumping into her, we move to Montana.

AJ update: he is scheduled for another chest x-ray tomorrow for comparison, another follow-up visit with the doctor on Wednesday, and hopefully will be declared mostly sound by then. Sound of body, if not mind. (No one who lives with the kids & me can strictly be classified 'sound of mind'.)

I sure am chipper today. God can use any of us, sometimes in ways we least expect. It is always fun when He does. And it was so nice riding around with my family. What a good day, overall. Now if the Dervish will only sleep all night...
Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 03:47 PM
Whew! The pressure was really getting to me, the comparisons, the competition...

It's good to be back.

I took great pleasure in rolling the Dervish out of bed just after 7, since he snuck & watched TV till 11.

I mentioned somewhere that Grandpa came over to our side to watch TV too, and I put on Inn of the 6th Happiness. At 2am, at the movie's end, he woke me to find out whether he was just on the other side of the house, or in China, because of all the oriental things around.

It seemed very logical at the time, but now I'm a little concerned. He often forgets little things, like what day of the week it is, or whether he saw someone yesterday, a week ago, or at all, but he normally knows where he is at all times. Even in the car, if he doesn't remember the name of the road I'm driving on, he will ask just so he knows where he is at every second.

Mom, how worried should I be?
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Copycat - 01/31/06 05:00 PM
China? Must've been a very convincing movie. AJ said he was confused by the Chinese writing on the walls (has the Dervish been scribbling again? ), and the picture of the peacock behind the TV. Peacocks are very popular in Oriental art. Whether he knows this consciously, I can't tell you. After all those years in Hawaii, he certainly knows it instinctively.

I'll worry if he still thinks he's in China this morning when he wakes up.

Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 02/04/06 02:40 AM
More later, but a Gargamelious email made it through today, which is very bothersome but easy to fix. She made it across one barrier, but was at least caught and redirected by a different filter.

The bad part is I'm actually going to have to do something about it. Of all the stupid checks to have bounce!!!

It has been almost 2 months since I wrote that one check for $100, & it was on an account that I don't usually write checks on. Well, at some point I failed to realize that it had never been cashed, & pulled out the money, thinking it was just part of AJ's paycheck.

That made me check on the last payment, which had been written on my account, and it has not been cashed, either, but at least the money is still there & I haven't made any mistakes with it. She must be saving that check for something special, prob'ly hoping it will bounce, too, and she'll have another excuse to write. Not happening!

What I am going to do is send a cashier's check for $120, with a typewritten note saying that if that is not enough to cover the bank fees, please write c/o box.....(Mom's). I already know from the email that her bank fees were $5, but that way she won't know that she (temporarily) made it around the blockades.

I am not as upset now, having had a long day finishing that book submission and running errands in town with the trolls, I mean dear children.

Well, Mom just got here with the asparagus, so must run.
Posted By: Neak Re: Copycat - 02/07/06 10:37 PM
I just had such a nice chat with one of the county ladies. She sits at the front desk at the county building, and also apparently was in on AJ's job interviews when he was trying to get the A-starting job.

She asked why he was no longer working there, and I told her about the A. She was very shocked, and asked if we were still together. I told her oh yes, that it had been hard but he was a good man before and twice as good now. I told her that we loved each other very much, and valued each other more than ever.

The nice lady was suitably impressed, though perhaps she wishes she hadn't asked, lol.

She asked if I was aware that Gargamel no longer worked there, and I told her I knew, but that she still had friends there and had access to AJ's schedule as a result, and had come there while he was working.

What a nice, nice lady.
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/07/06 11:47 PM

You know how wonderful and special I think you are. Reading your thread, seeing your quiet dignity and strength in the face of such pain and evil, only makes me admire you more. Words cannot do justice to the pain I feel for the loss of Dillon. You are an amazing woman and I feel so fortunate to call you my friend.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 12:24 AM
{{{{{Improving}}}}}} You are very kind. God's grace has filled me and supported me throughout this whole ordeal. Without Him, I know where I would be: cell #33. The only question would be what kind of cell, prison or asylum...

**Neak does the happy dance to see you here**
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 12:36 AM
No matter what happens, I am a better person for it. I have "found" myself and am working very hard on changing the things that I need to. It is so wonderful and feels so good. I am so much happier than I was before. I feel free.

For the first time in my life, I feel such a strong sense of peace. I would love for my M to make it, but I know I will be fine no matter what happens.

I have learned that I have more strength than I ever thought possible.

I know what I want and deserve and what I will not accept.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 12:39 AM
Which takes some people a lifetime to find out.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 12:40 AM
....if they ever get it at all....

Somehow, I find myself thinking of Lemonaman right now.
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 12:50 AM
Yes, I feel so fortunate to be learning it now. Ironically, some of the more recent growth was due to WH saying I had not changed/did not know what I needed to change. Even though I knew I had made changes I was quite proud of, I realized he was right...I had neglected myself in many ways. Thankfully, that is not the case anymore. I have shed so much of what was weighing me down. I have my Purple Cape of Power on and it looks and feels fantastic. I feel invincible.

I have my Purple Cape of Power on and it looks and feels fantastic. I feel invincible.

Oo-o-o-o-o-o-o-h, purple ! I think you and Neak (with her red cape of power), standing side by side in the sunshine, would be a blindingly-awesome sight!

t&l, who is only gray
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 05:25 AM
It is actually quite ironic to have the worst period of my life be what leads to me being so much happier. I know now that I had untreated depression (most likely caused by codependency) and major codependency issues. I was always worrying about things that had not happened, what I needed to do, what others needed to do...and, sadly, I had this negative tape in my brain always telling me I was not good enough, I fight against that tape now and I am so much happier.

Understanding myself has led to change, and change has led to peace and confidence, which has led to me choosing to remove myself from the situation with my WH because it hurts too much, I will not be a part of this triangle, and I deserve better. Slowly, each day, his A is killing my love for him. I do not want that, but I have no control over it. I am learning to live in the now and deal with what I do know: my H is in an A, he says he does not want to work on the M, my children are devastated by that state of things, and he refuses to stop the A. So, the only acceptable choice to me is to protect me and the kids and get away from the chaos. I am moving forward with my life. My biggest hope is that my H will join us-- I just pray that it is not too late.

It is so sad because we both allowed our resentment to build up and it poisoned our M, but we have such a great opportunity to make a wonderful life and it feels like he is just letting it go. We have not even had a true chance at R as OW has most likely been in the pic all along. And, even if she was not, the fact he admits to contacting her within 2 weeks of moving out indicates his heart was not with me, though he kept telling me he wanted to save our M (I highly doubt OW just came back into the picture though. Too much evidence pointing the other way.) How can we ever have a chance to see what we could have if he won't stop the A? It is a catch-22. When he was with her before, his foggy remark was,"I figured once we got back on track, I wouldn't need her anymore." Uh, WH, we cannot get back on track until OW is gone. And, he is afraid to give her up because it seems like we cannot make it work. Obviously, his lack of commitment and continuing A, have a ton to do with why we cannot get anywhere. It is almost like this entire year was a lie
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 06:13 AM

The other day I was talking to a friend whose WH uses her A as his excuse for his A. "You started it!"

I have heard that one more times than I care to remember.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/08/06 11:12 PM
Improving, it is good to hear you sounding so strong, and so, so.......purple. Capes of power work no matter what color they come in.
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/09/06 04:18 AM
Strong and purple...yup, that is me

I feel so free and happy. I feel like I have shed my skin and I am now fresh, healthy, better, stronger, and ...alive!!! I feel so great. Weird, considering the circumstances. This whole mess has made me so much stronger.

My hope is that we are given a second chance at happiness, but I know that if we are not, I can say I have done what I could to be a better wife, to show I can/will change, and to prove my love and commitment. But, we both have to put effort into changing the patterns that we have that have hurt our marriage. I have no doubt we can do that. I am fully committed to doing my part, but I cannot do it alone. It took two us to get us into this mess and it will take two of us to get us out. I know we have been granted a great chance to be happy again.

Once I knew I had taken us for granted, and understood that not meeting my H's needs had led to him doubting my love (and visa versa), I did not want him to go another minute doubting that ever again.

I broke my vows once, I do not intend to break them again. But, it takes two (not three ), to make a marriage work. And, that is not possible with OW (or anyone for that matter), in this M. He cannot be committed to us and be in an A at the same time. It makes me very sad to know that all the work we did this past year was, most likely, while he was still having an A. If not, he sure did not waste anytime seeking her out after moving (so his heart could not have been with me anyway), though he was still telling me he wanted it to work. There is no way we can know if we can be happy again while OW is around, regardless of the nature of their relationship. Period. Thems the facts, ma'am.

Now, where did I put my cape? Man, this is a great shade of purple on me....

PS check your e-mail, chica
Post deleted by not_so_you_neak
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/10/06 06:51 PM
I got AJ a rose yesterday for 2 reasons. One is that we will be very busy on Valentine's Day. The other is that I still have a grudge against the holiday, and don't much want to celebrate it, anyway.

As I was carrying it into the house, and trying to open the door with both hands full, the rosebud snapped off with about 4 inches of stem, and plopped onto the porch. Such irony.

Well, I picked it up, stuck it back in the baby's breath, and gave it to him anyway.

He was delighted and touched, and asked me to put it in some water for him. I did this, knowing that the bottom of the rose stem would be very, very happy.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/12/06 12:46 AM
Well, "Ross Kirkland" has made another (very brief) appearance, and now that address is blocked, too.

All it said was, "I'm still waiting!"

I can't remember if I said or not, but I decided the most impersonal way to handle this was with Bank of America's Billpay. You don't get much more impersonal than a computer-generated check sent automatically from somewhere else in the country. It is supposed to deliver by the 13th.

I was very happy that AJ called me immediately and showed me that one, too. He is behaving in a trustworthy manner, and that makes it so much easier to treat him in a trustworthy manner, and to think of him as being trustworthy.

Nice try, Ross, but no banana.

Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/12/06 05:03 AM
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/12/06 05:04 AM
It's because she is "so in love" with him, doncha know?

Good job AJ and Neak!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/12/06 06:43 PM
Tonight, it will have been one year since D-day. One year since he told me, you will probably hate me for this, but I've been seeing someone else. One year since I felt such relief that the sudden storm that had come upon our marriage was not actually all my fault, and I was really not going crazy. One year since I naively thought he would end it at any moment, since he had been honest enough to tell me.

We are 7 1/2 months into recovery, and it is beginning to seem like it was all a nightmare, and at some point I woke up. The occasional sighting or mail delivery attempt adds a jarring note of reality.

There are definitely more good days than bad days. I still have many bad thoughts, and flashes of remembrance. Even just yesterday it popped into my mind again that they probably took showers together, the thought of which has bothered me for a long time. And every time I see a Holiday Inn Express sign it is a trigger, too. The big difference is that they are blips on my otherwise happy, busy day, instead of being a big dark cloud hanging over every moment of what I do and say. So that is progress.

He is still being so wonderful. Everything he does is meant to show me that he loves me, and that he is being open and honest with me. We are still struggling a bit in the communication area (me more than him), but even that is improving as we continue to make the effort to change.

I don't know if it's the same for everyone, but my stages of grief have been really weird. Eventually I did start to feel major anger and resentment, occasionally finding some kind of acceptance only to be returned in a moment to the hurt and the hate by some little reminder of what happened. Now I am mostly caught between acceptance and disbelief.

A part of me may never in my whole life be able to accept or understand that my dear husband, my other half, my best friend, could betray me in the most personal, deep way possible, and cause the worst screaming agony I have felt in my whole life, that just went on and on and on for months. On purpose, without regard for my well-being, my feelings, or my pain. It is mind-boggling to me.

The accepting part of me feels that, although these terrible things happened, and I don't understand them, that life has gone on, that our marriage and love are better than ever before, and we stand before God united in a way we have not experienced till now. And that if our life is so wonderful now, that the most important thing is embracing that, rather than spinning my mental wheels trying to understand something that cannot be understood.

In the wee hours this morning, after we had spent some quality time with each other, he pulled me close and I snuggled in, wearing the silky pink pajamas he had just bought me for Valentine's Day (note I said 'silky' and not 'silk' - silk would never survive the Dervish, so it's fortunate that I think a cotton/poly blend is sexy and even more fortunate that HE thinks the same thing), it didn't even bother me as much as I expected to be in the first few hours of this dark anniversary.

So I have been not depressed, not angry, but just contemplative and grateful for what God has done in our lives.

Next year will be even better.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/12/06 06:49 PM
Rats, I really wanted to just change my title for a bit. Oh well.

I should probably go take a shower anyway, since my pretty pink pajamas really shouldn't be what I wear to do the kind of housecleaning I have in mind for today, and probably not to go to town to get stuff for the trip, either. Although it might look cute if I wore it with my special Christmas coat...

It's supposed to have snow showers in Blackwell this weekend.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/27/06 12:34 AM
I have been a little agitated the last couple of days, but there is nothing to do but set it aside and wait till it fades.

We are right in the vicinity of the first time AJ screwed Gargamel the first time, so it's anyway. He admitted it to me on March 6 of last year, and said it had been about a week before. Exactly a week would have been February 27, so it was sometime very close to that.

Friday when he got up, he had gotten a missed call on his (my) cell phone from an unknown number at 3:49 am. Hardly anyone has this number, only a few family members and the people at his work. Normally I am the only unknown caller, and we were both in bed when the call came in.

It's kind of sad I guess that a probably-hopefully wrong number (at 3:49 am???) would freak me out like this, but it would be just like her to do an Intelius search or whatever for unlisted/cell numbers, and call him at the exact time it happened.

I hate being like this. Well, the answer is simple. I WON'T be like this, but it bugs me that I even have to try.

You can look up cell numbers on Intelius, right? I told Neaksis you can, and I'm pretty sure you can, but haven't actually done it all the way through.

I miss the days when a wrong number was just a wrong number.
Well, that explains you lately. Does it explain him?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/27/06 02:11 AM
Just what are you trying to insinuate, anyway? Hmmph!

I don't think he's given it another thought - he's too busy thinking about flight training, flight simulators, fixing Neaksis' house, and moving to be bothered with trifles like 'wrong' (?) numbers.

For me it is an irritant, but fairly surface-level. I am just starting with the fastest thing to complain, I mean to vent about.

We did have a very nice talk on the trip, following a long conversation between both of us on speaker phone, and an A-embroiled friend.

The first part of it kind of harked back to the first post on this thread, where he said he noticed everything I did for him, even if he didn't let on. He's a man, so I doubt he really did notice everything, but if he even saw enough to think he knew it all, it was waaaaaaaay more than I thought.

It was a very good time to re-explore a few things with him, and to be comforted and reassured by his continuing disgust for her manipulations and game-playing. He totally sees now that everything I did, Plan A, Plan B, reminding him of his duty to the children, all of it was done from love, trying to save our marriage, and was not a manipulation.

He sees very clearly that she, on the other hand, was doing her best to portray me as a psycho game-player, dishonest to boot, and using the children against him. It was so good to know that his understanding has increased, and I expect that his hindsight will only get clearer with more time.

It was also good to know that his feelings for me are still constant. Let's be honest and admit that for the last 8 months (tomorrow) they have been much more constant than mine. I don't condemn myself for that, because I have made a great effort not to let my changeable feelings affect my actions, and it is a roller coaster, after all, one that he put me on.

Sure there was a bit of spiteful satisfaction mixed in as he went into more detail about stuff he hadn't liked about her, and how I shone in comparison, but it wasn't all malicious. For the most part it was just a happy thing to hear his praise of me, and to realize that all was not the rose-colored paradise for the A that I had pictured.

That latest email was just another nail in the coffin. It made him revolted, not nostalgic.

BTW, I found out that my account will not even charge a stop-payment on the last check that is out, so I can just stop payment, mail a bill-pay check, and have done with that one, too. That way it won't be hanging over my head indefinitely, just waiting for my account to fall 3 cents short. (The bank said there was no expiration date on their checks. Fifty years from now, if the account was still open, they would pay the check. Wow.)

Oh, also, one of our biggest leaks (as far as I can guess, but no absolute proof) just found out today that we're moving, though I was very vague. Well, we DON'T know exactly where, until we have a contract go through with somebody. I don't know how much he has inadvertently given away, but he is one of the few, perhaps the only, of our friends who actually continued to talk to her after I fired her. ( Still makes me smile.) But when he walked in and saw one living room piled 5 feet high with boxes, there was no explaining it away.

I can always tell when he's been talking to her. He acts almost as bad as AJ did. Apparently fog and feelings of disloyalty and deception aren't limitied only to spouses.
Hey Girl,
Been thinking of you. I know how you are feeling- feeling the same way. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

We will get through this and be stronger for it- just think, it won't be long and all the first year anniversaries will be over! Does this feel like the longest year on record to you, too?

ARGH. hate this, but I keep telling myelf it will get better.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/27/06 04:29 AM
{{{MoFo too!}}}

Thanks, as always it helps to know I'm not the only one like this. We're still just reading from the script, lol.

I guess the 2yr anniversaries won't be as scary, maybe, and besides they are so far away. A whole nuther year!

It always feels like I'm making no progress, until I look back at the insanity, see where I came from, and suddenly where I am looks wonderful.

At least AJ is making good progress. That continues to help me in my progress.
Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/27/06 05:24 AM

I am sorry you are suffering so. It is hard to read, as a FWW, because it reminds me of the terrible pain I caused my WH. And, it is hard to read as a BS because I understand the pain all too well. But, you are not alone. And, you know how wonderful and special I think you are.

I am not sure if this matters at all, but when I was a WW, it was almost like the "alien" fog protected me from really hearing/feeling the pain I was causing my H. I truly think it is the brain's way of protecting you from the horrible truth of what you are doing...that is why when the fog lifts, there is such incredible guilt because it is the first time you have really faced what you have done and the pain you have caused your BS. So, if AJ was anything like me, he probably could not take in your pain in any real way--it's almost like your senses are numbed.

Anyway, thank you for sharing yourself and your story. It helps me and others so much.

Mwwwaaahhh!! (kisses to you)

Posted By: LaLaLa Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 02/27/06 05:40 AM
I have heard the manipulation comment too. Funny how when we were first in R (and I am almost certain OW was NOT in the pic again--yet) that he said that he did not doubt my love anymore (when I was trying to meet his needs). But, once he had moved out, suddenly all the love and care I had shown him was interpreted as him "...feeling manipulated for months". Not sure if that was fog, OW's explanation for what I had done, or his rewriting of history (he did say he did not want to feel like he was "just a plan" to me). I know what I was doing was sincere, but it is hurtful to hear him be so wrong about me.

But, another friend's FWH said she was a manipulative, lying BIT@H when he was leaving her for OW, who he was "just friends" with. Manipulation and "just friends" seems to be a common theme with WHs. So, it is nice to hear that when the fog cleared, AJ was able to see what you were doing for what it was...a woman who wanted to save her M, despite the incredible pain he had caused.

I have been a little agitated the last couple of days, but there is nothing to do but set it aside and wait till it fades.


Just what are you trying to insinuate, anyway? Hmmph!

Don't you go and get all snarky with me now, when I was just trying to agree with you!!!! You've seemed a half-bubble-off-plumb with your emotional stride just lately, albeit with your public facade fully intact. Unfortunately, I don't accept your public facade at facade value. So you're not so much fooling us as you might wish...should you be silly enough to wish to waste time fooling us when it never works out anyway. Is there any way to trace the call back? Probably not on a cell phone. Ask Neakbro. Maybe he can do some hacking for you.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/01/06 07:02 PM
Imp - Thanks as always for your encouragement. Your insight into the WS mindset is helpful and enlightening. (Being a woman and all, you are able to be more verbal about things men just shrug and look vacant over, lol.)

Mom, You can't trace it if it's not already listed.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/01/06 07:22 PM
Sigh. And I saw her again yesterday. I am just going to start bracing myself that every time I pick up the kids from school I will see her, and then it will no longer be a surprise. Each time.

It was AJ's fault. He asked me to get a coupling. It's not as kinky as it sounds; it's just pipe to fix Neaksis' toilet. Ok, that still sounds kinky, but really it's not. So I went to Meek's like he asked me to, and as I was waiting for traffic to clear so I could pull out of the parking lot she drove right in front of me.

I followed her for a bit, since she was going my way, but she turned off on a dead-end street and I kept on going to the bank. AJ is right, she does drive like a batoutta. (That is one of the things that bugged him about her, in case I haven't mentioned it before. Reckless drivers are one of his major peeves. A drunken maniac (not necessarily simultaneously) - he shakes his head at himself now.)

Clearly, seeing her on a regular basis does nothing good for me, but once I come on here and complain a little it always goes away. Kimmy, I don't know how you do it, you must be far more of a saint than I am. Anyway, thanks for listening, I feel better already.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/08/06 05:22 AM
A couple of mildly interesting things have happened. One is an aha! I knew it! and the other was just nice.

AJ told me the other day that he needed to get another toolbox for his tools. Being a girl, I tried to be a little more practical. "Why don't you just put them back in the toolbox you and your brother got? You know, the one with wheels." "Er, hem, well we need to talk about that one. She got it for me, and I need to get rid of it." (Oh, well in that case let's go buy a toolbox, and the bigger the better!)

That toolbox had been a thorn in my flesh for months, ever since it first appeared. I KNEW it was from her. I could almost smell her. Early in recovery I asked him about it, and he said nonchalantly that he and his brother had bought it.

Now we come to find out he thought I meant his other tool box, more of a tub with a snapping lid. His wheeled toolbos had not crossed his mind until shortly after she sent that last email so she was fresher in his mind, and he went out to the garage for something and saw it.

It is such a good thing this did not come up until he had had time to build his trust back more. After he has been honest with me about thousands of dollars, each tool, sexual things, everything I asked him about, I can believe he misunderstood about a $10 tool box.

If, however, back when his trust was -37,591 I had found out it was actually from her and he had tried to tell me, oh, I thought you meant the other toolbox, it would have seemed lame beyond words, and perhaps even been a dealbreaker for me. Now it makes me happy (a little smug, to, for having been right after all), that here is one more evidence that he is still being honest, and handling something related to her by telling me.

Then the other night, we were talking while he drove home from work. I had just gotten off the phone with a friend who has a WS of their own, and had had a phone consultation with Steve Harley. AJ asked me what he had said, and I told him that Steve's big concern was that our friend would lose all love for the WS before the A ended, because of how very very sick our friend has gotten of the whole chaotic alien sitch, and that when the WS was ready to come home, our friend would be too far gone to want to try and recover the marriage.

AJ poured out such a touching apology, saying that he was so sorry that he had done that to me, and hurt me so badly. He thanked me with deepest gratitude for not giving up on him, and letting him have another chance to be my husband. It was very sweet, and completely spontaneous.

Hopefully someone will read this and take heart. Every few days I get another reminder of how far we've come, and if we can do it, so can anyone else.
Posted By: Eagle15 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/08/06 01:34 PM
Thank you Neak, this post does give me hope!
Hey neak,

When I think that you aren't even a year into recovery, I am even more boggled by you. Thanks for being such a testament to grace and strength in the midst of the fire.


Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/08/06 04:05 PM
Thank you, Eagle and Griselda. While the A was going on, B0b Pure and Dorry were my heroes. B0b was the BS, and always had an encouraging story to share about how his dear Squid was beginning to return his love and affection, and no longer spewing the horrible venom that she did during her A. Dorry was a new FWW, and as penitent as you could ever hope to see. She gave me so much hope that maybe, someday, I might hear some of those things from my own WS. Well, I did, and so will most of you.

The few among you that never see your true spouse again, believe me, you are so much better off without them. You can have your own dignity intact, and know you tried everything you could, but the bottom line is an A cannot be tolerated forever. You will lose yourself completely if you try.

We are all wonderful people here on this site, strong, courageous, and on our way to becoming something more beautiful than we ever dreamed.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/10/06 03:08 AM
Well, I just had good news. I checked my bank account, and they have processed the Billpay check I issued after stopping payment on the other check Gargamel was holding onto, which means it has been cashed.

So now not only have we repaid the personal loan, but she has actually accepted the payments instead of saving them, apparently hoping someone will contact her about them.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 03/13/06 03:03 PM
Another interesting little snippet from this weekend....

Our friend whose spouse is actively involved in an A came to visit, and was picking AJ's brain a bit, so actually I learned several things I had not heard him say that way before.

One was on the subject of how, in any A, the OP is likely behind the scenes trying to stir up any and all garbage against the BS. AJ gave our friend several examples (none new to me), and I said to him, "Yes, and then when I would do anything remotely resembling what you had been warned about, like the few times I tried to show you how badly you were hurting the children, you would say, 'SEE? SHE WARNED ME YOU WOULD DO THIS, AND NOW YOU DID!!!!!'" AJ got a funny look on his face, and said, "I didn't say that!.......did I?"

And, when asked point blank what finally motivated him to end the A once and for all, and turn back to God and family, he said it was the fear that he was losing me. For sure, he really did not want to go into the blackness of Plan B.

And of course it's nice to not have the kids crying themselves to sleep every night because Daddy's not home, and they don't know where he is, and I can't tell them where he is to make them feel better because I don't know either, not exactly.....

The OP will never understand that there is a world of difference between supposed manipulations from the BS, and the BS enforcing natural consequences upon the WS.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/02/06 05:25 AM
I have been having weird dreams lately. Some I know where they came from, such as night before last I dreamed I was pregnant and afraid something was wrong. I kept thinking I had already lost the baby, and would feel my stomach to make sure I was still fat. The source of that one is pretty obvious.

Last night was weird, though. I dreamed about practically everybody! Gargamel was a small snippet of one dream. AJ & I were driving down the road, when all of a sudden he pointed to this nondescript little black car, and said, "There's the black [whatever-it-was] that SHE drives all the time now." And I remember thinking, "Great, just great, I needed another kind of car to have to look out for, just when I got the other one down pat."

And I dreamed of Grandma, who has been dead for just over 3 years. She was normal in the dream, well.....almost. She still lived in Lodi in her old house, and was still able to cook, sort of. (Neaksis says she dreams of Grandma whenever she feels in need of comfort or reassurance, but this did not exactly fill that bill.) She had most of her marbles, but not quite all of them (we are back to talking about Grandma again, not Neaksis), and was cooking some strange things. She made a teeny, thin little tater tot casserole, and then was cranking out molded fruit-filled jello like the world was coming to an end tomorrow unless she produced enough. She had it wedged and piled into every corner of her refrigerator, all over the counters, and still she went on, machinelike and unstoppable, making more and more and more jello, and making us help her.

The third dream was by far the longest. I will spare you the majority of the details, mostly so you don't think I have become completely unhinged. It was set a long time ago, with some castle or other about to be attacked. The Irish were involved somehow, but I don't remember which side they were on.

The castle's walls had been built purely for decoration, for what would make it looke the prettiest on the postcards of the castle at sunset. To try and make the walls higher, at least temporarily, the king-person had ordered them to stack humans atop the walls. To try and hold the invading army back from the human walls as long as possible, the general had prepared a clever diversion and ambush just down the hill.

I joined the group readying the ambush, and was checking everything out and chatting, when suddenly Lorenzo Lamas appeared and began declaring his undying love for me. "Um, yeah, I, um love you too. Don't, like, get killed in battle or anything." Then back to work again.

Is it any wonder I always wake up so tired???
Neak - your dreams are amazing. I don't always remember mine but when I do they are mostly weird. I don't try to interpret them because I can't believe they are significant. Ok, I did dream I had baby twin girls a month before I got pregnant with twin girls (I even named one the same as in the dream!) but I have also slept with Superman in his kit !

It is incredible how real they are though, isn't it. And it is really special when you dream about a loved one (like your gran) who is no longer around IRL. It's almost like you got to spend time with them all over again! Hope you got that Snickers bar for your mum. TT
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/02/06 07:05 PM
Ah, yes, Superman. No way to compete with that one.

Last night I dreamed AJ stayed up till 5am and kept waking me up every hour or so to let me know he was still awake. Then I woke up, and.....wait a minute.....that actually happened!!!!!

You're right about the time with Grandma. I enjoyed every bit of it, even if she was a bit, um, fruity.

AJ just found out his dad got out of the hospital after more heart trouble, and now wants to start going back to church. Naturally AJ is very worried and wants to go back there if possible, because if his dad is talking about chutch there's probably not too much time left. In all the close calls and near-death brushes, that has never happened before.

If he goes, y'all will have to put up with me even more often.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/07/06 03:13 AM
Whew! It's scary out on the board. I will just hide in here and muse to myself, and if anyone else wants to muse a bit they are welcome to join in.

First, a smidge of news. Yesterday I returned the Evil Toolbox to the Den of Iniquity. I had asked Neaksis to do it, but she wasn't really keen on the idea, so I just left it propped against the mailbox.

I think I had said, but she bought it for corporate use and was never reimbursed, so I didn't feel right just throwing it away, and who would want it?????

I am very happy to be rid of it.

The dreams have been crazier and crazier. The same night I told you AJ woke me up every hour to tell me he was still awake, I remembered later that I dreamed I was being attacked, and couldn't breathe. I struggled for AGES trying to get enough breath to yell, but no luck. Finally, I succeeded in hollering HELP!!! only to wake myself up, actually hollering.

Then I had a big old long dream about being in Oklahoma and flying and stuff. The weirdest part of that dream was when I went to take off my socks. I took the first one off, dropped it on the ground, and instantly it was back on my foot. I did this, oh, 15 or 20 times, not being very bright when I am asleep, before finally realizing, this is not normal, in fact, kinda PARAnormal. So I prayed in Jesus name, and the socks stayed off. Allrightythen.

There were more that I remembered at the time, but can't think of them just now.

AJ is going to be making a few service calls back at the infamous site where he saw Gargamel for the last time. It does stir the memories a bit for me, but not too badly.

What it made me think of this time is the part just after where he told me that she kept trying to touch him and massage his shoulders, and he was getting really irritated and just shrugged her off and kept walking away.

I didn't believe him at the time, well, I didn't believe him about anything at that point. But now it seems a lot more likely. Plus, I have not been able to catch him in a single lie since June 27, and dagnabbit but I've tried! And he just keeps on telling the truth.

So it is nice to think of her getting a taste of the personal rejection that the two of them heaped on me, and to have her experience it just before all the lights went out on the sordid A....forever. (I hope.) It's not that I want revenge. I get enough of that just by living my life well and sleeping next to my husband every night. But what happened that day was a small foretaste of justice.

Full justice will always come eventually, unless we ask to be covered in mercy.
HI there long time no speak. I have been keeping off the MB stuff. I honestly feel that there is a troll of the worst kind out there. The damage she is reaping on new wounds and newsly repentant WS is a tragedy. I cannot abide such evil.

But I have to say that since I called her to task I would not be surprised if she came in here. Please forgive me if the troll terrorizes and destroys the peace and gentle solitude that you have here.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/07/06 03:57 AM
I understand what you are saying, as it also causes me a pang to have my pain - the pain of every BS - cast up in that way, as if I were not the innocent victim, as if I somehow chose to be violated and ripped apart. I can only hope that those who are in turmoil will find the peace and forgiveness they desperately need, and be able to reach out a helping hand to others in the future.

Don't worry if any trolls stop by here. It will boost my ratings far more than my own sweet charm, rofl.

***placid meadow music playing softly***
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/07/06 03:59 AM
Also hi to MoFo, I see you out there....congrats on passing the 9 month waymark!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/07/06 04:18 AM
PS Just in case there was any doubt, I resisted the urge to include a pithy note in the Evil Toolbox, or even a message of any kind. All that was in it were a couple lines of leftover staples and a piece of styrofoam. Well, ok, that's kind of a message.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/08/06 12:40 AM
I have a question and would welcome some input.

The other day, for the second time, AJ has had an incorrect memory about an A-related incident. We went to Baja Fresh for supper, and he mentioned the time he took me to eat at the Baja Fresh in Elk Grove. Except he never did. I had never been to it anywhere before, and he has never taken me to dinner at any establishment in Elk Grove. (I do not count stopping at the Taco Bell as taking me to dinner.) I should also note that he brought this up himself.

The other time he found a receipt for a pizza place, glanced at the name of the establishment, and brought up when he took me to dinner there. Well, I have never heard of that place before. I looked it up on the map, and have never even been to any restaurants in that area. And with the receipt dated for a few weeks before PBL #1, if it had happened it would have been engraved deeply into my memory.

He clearly believed he was telling the truth, and remembering this correctly. Again, he brought this up himself, it was not something I asked him about.

My question is, should I bother to disagree with him, and attempt to prove my point, or just let it ride?

My inclination is just to let it alone and accept that he will always be confused about some of what happened. I am fine with that; it is only a minor irritation when it occurs. But at the same time, if this is one of those things that looks little now, but some of you have experienced problems down the road because of letting something like this go, then I don't want to do that.

I am not afraid of any possible conflict, but don't want to make a big deal out of something if it's just a blip in the grand scheme of things.

So is it a big deal or not? To confront or not to confront, that is the question, whether tis nobler..... (that's as much as I can remember.)
Neak. You know, is it owrth it to bring it up? I mean ou believe that he is being honest. And maybe this is AJ's brain covering the shame or the wound. I odn't know. It seems that it owuld not be fruitful to bring it up just to be right. Just my opinion.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/08/06 01:57 AM
Thank you. I mean, that's what it seemed like to me, but as an attemptedly reforming CA I sometimes feel in need of a less biased sounding board than myself.

And ok, there is that tiny part of me that feels like biffing him on the head and shouting, "THAT WASN'T ME, YOU DOLT!!!!" At least I don't need independent verification to see that that is not the healthiest way to deal with it. But aside from that tiny part, the rest of me is just .

And ok, there is that tiny part of me that feels like biffing him on the head and shouting, "THAT WASN'T ME, YOU DOLT!!!!"

That would be the part you inherited from me, dearie. So glad I could help!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/08/06 05:10 AM
Oh, is that what happened?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/08/06 02:14 PM
A question just occurred to me. If his mind has cut and pasted my face into memories of a burrito shack and burger joint, are there any other memories where an image of me has been conveniently used to cover unwelcome reminders?

The mind can be a funny thing...

again at the thought.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/09/06 04:42 PM
Firstly, I dreamed wildly again last night, quite literally. (It was much worse than my dream from a couple of days ago where I was running around naked and not even trying very hard to find clothes.)

The star was a giant grizzly. That was it's official breed name, as well as an apt descriptor. It ate people, and was terrorizing a 12-story hospital. You can imagine I was very tired after hours of running and dodging, dashing up and down stairs and even scaling the pipes on the outside of the hospital to escape.

I may have to take a nap to recover from my night's sleep.

Anyway, I remembered an incident from early on in the A, when hardly anyone yet knew about it.

We have a good friend in Chicago, and she had gotten worried because every time she tried to call AJ & talk to him, he would say he had to go and that he would call her back, and then he would never call her back. For some reason.

I told her exactly what the problem was, and she was totally shocked that he would do something like that. I encouraged her to keep calling and get him to confide in her. He almost told her one day, while he was riding the commuter train, but chickened out and said that he had made a mistake, but couldn't talk about it right then.

Finally she tracked him down at home. He was pretty mad when I handed him the phone. There was no excuse not to talk to her, but he still couldn't bring himself to tell her. At last he thrust the phone at me, exasperated, and said, "Here! You tell her!"

I didn't expect that, but naturally acted as if she and I had not already been talking. "AJ has been," sniffle, "having an affair," catch in voice, "with another woman." WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! The bawling was genuine, BTW.

AJ felt even more hunted as he began hearing the loud, indignant exclamations issuing from the phone receiver. (Spanish is her first language, so she has that endearing lilt and talks very fast when she is agitated.) He said something along the lines of, "Good grief, it's not THAT big of a deal!"

The sobbing increased on my end, and the indignation from hers. "Of COURSE it's a big deal - you're having an affair with another woman!!!"

That dear friend was a comfort to me in the months to come. She wanted soooooo badly to have a crack at Gargamel, but I would not give her the information. I'm still not sure if I regret that one or not. It would have been very entertaining to see my little Mexican spitfire turned loose against the forces of evil.

thinking about it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/13/06 03:28 PM
Well, I had another alien sighting yesterday, that was a bit different from the others in that it happened on what I would consider my turf. I was on my way home from town (her turf), when I realized I had forgotten to stop and get chips (I typed 'ships' the first time, lol) for AJ's lunch.

I stopped at a little store at a crossroads that's only a couple miles from our lake, and off the beaten path. As I walked back out and around my car, the whish of a vehicle on the road made me look up, just in time to see the butt end of her auto disappearing into the sunset.

Well, I followed her just long enough to be sure she didn't take the other way in to the lake, but she turned off on a road that (among other things) is the back way into the overlook where AJ had taken her last March to "break up with her" in person.

Side note: If you have any doubts as to whether Dr. Harley is right about the WS's not breaking up in person, please heed the sad voice of experience. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER LET THEM TRY TO BREAK UP IN PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AJ seemed a little spooked when I told him, and he thinks she was probably following me. I couldn't swear she wasn't, but I think she came from another direction than I did. Even if it was coincidence, I still wonder why she was even over there so close.

Oh, one other thing as long as I'm on this subject, AJ was looking at the trailer for XMen3 the other day. It gave me a literal startle to see that it was coming out on Gargamel's birthday. I wonder if he even remembers? I doubt it; he has to think really hard to remember the kids birthdays, and I definitely don't want to ASK him if he remembers, or he will definitely remember.

I'll be back later, since I have remembered 2 A incidents that I need to record before I forget again.

Believer is right, you will be surprised how much you are able to forget. Well, I haven't reached that point yet, but I'm surprised I have even been able to forget anything. A few of the smaller details are getting blurry after a year. Thank You, Lord!

Time to go take the butterfly net away from the Dervish. (Who said this morning that he missed Dillon, and added that in heaven, he wouldn't 'tortcher' him. Great, Dervish. I'm so glad to hear hopefully won't tortcher the animals, either.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/14/06 05:44 AM
In some ways it is sad for me if I read posts by Slammed, and others whose WS's show the grave disrespect of commnicating with the OP right in front of the BS. AJ did that all the time. I always knew it was her, whether it was phone, text messaging, or IM'ing.

While acknowledging that now I know there were things I could have done, I don't think I am being too hard on myself, either. I had not found MB yet, knew nothing about A's except what I witnessed myself, and the only information I had found online up to that point was for turning D's around, not turning A's around. Big difference.

The only advice I had found that seemed to apply, basically said don't argue with them, it's pointless to argue, just agree with everything, don't give them any excuse to blame you, and they won't know what to do.

And that worked up to a point. Yes, it is pointless to argue with an alien. But at the same time before it could all get better, I had to learn the art of confrontation. It is just uncomfortable even yet to look back and realize all the scores of opportunities I had for this, and didn't take them, only because I didn't know any better then. of the times he was on the phone with her, I was getting very fed up at knowing and not being able to prove stuff. When he hung up and set the phone down, I picked it up and walked outside, hit redial, and waited till she answered the phone. "Hi," I said calmly, "is Uncle Ed there?" She sounded rather disconcerted as she kind of stammered that there was no one there by that name. Smoothly, "Oh, I'm so sorry, I must have the wrong phone number."

Almost faster than the speed of telekinesis, she had called AJ to complain to him that I had called her. Of course he scolded me a bunch, but I just played totally stupid since he thought I was anyway. Now my writer's imagination torments me with all the things I COULD have said. (And all the annoying things I could do to her even now and not get caught.)

Monday morning quarterbacking is my specialty, and how oh how I wish I had known more earlier.

If AJ ever went back into an A, he had better hope and pray I show him the mercy of filing immediately for D, instead of using the opportunity to practice all that I have learned. They would never know what hit them. Nuclear exposure, reverse babble, serene confrontation at every opportunity, and all at the first sign of trouble.

But learning is a process we all go through in our own ways, and none of us arrived on the A scene knowing everything. And it's not one event here or one event there that makes the difference, but the whole trend, and the overall direction you're aiming for. There won't be any one thing the BS can do to end the A, except just keep chipping away little by little, doing everything to make sure the A is not a comfortable place to be.

Sooner or later it will work.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/14/06 06:32 AM
Last night AJ triggered me without meaning to, and I doubt he will even remember what he did when I remind him.

I pushed one teeny tiny little button on his computer, that always works fine on mine, and the whole thing froze up in weird shapes. He fussed with it a while, then finally had to cut the power to reboot it.

He was not irritated even, and was just laughing at my techno talent, when he turned to me and said teasingly, "You could mess up a wet dream."

Instantly I was catapulted back to the Wednesday night we went to Tracy to take a uniform shirt to a new employee (this was before he started having Gargamel deliver them all ). He needed to get gas, but didn't have his bank card and blamed me. Of course.

I ended up having a card that worked, and put in $30 for him, but he continued to berate me all the way home. (It turned out to be his dumb fault anyway.) He just yelled and yelled, saying things like he didn't even like taking me anyplace now, because I always f****d everything up, couldn't keep track of anything, lost all his stuff, did a p***-poor job of managing the business, and worked up to his grand finale of, "YOU WOULD F*** UP A WET DREAM!!!!!"

I just sat there in the dark and cried. (A Cape of Power would have come in mighty handy about then, but I hadn't even started the fittings.) I had no clue what to say that wouldn't make things worse. So I kept sitting, and kept crying. Except fot the 4 hour tirade after I told him I knew he was still having sex with her, that was the longest and most vicious.

It takes a lot longer to tell than it does to flash in remembrance. I very quickly stifled all urges to maim and destroy, only staggering away with my mind shut down for a few moments. He called me back over, wanting me to play with him (um, games), and had no clue or recollection.

It must be nice to have blocked out so much.

I don't see any sense in bringing up all the details, unless he asks, but when I am calmer about it, I will at least express the thought that that particular phrase brings up some very bad memories, and perhaps he could try to refrain from using it. OR I REFUSE TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He is gone overnight working, so I have a little more time to type than usual. Right now I am listening to him unpack his toiletries.

Hope all of you are getting ready for a great weekend. Have you seen the KMart commercial where the little kids are running back and forth on the lawn, and the parents say to each other, "I thought you got the candy." "No, I thought you got the candy." And the kids keep running back and forth.

Those people know me. I demand royalties!

Which reminds me, I talked to a guy at Pacific Press today about the manuscript I submitted, and he says I should hear one way or the other in 3-4 weeks. The supense is almost over.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/14/06 06:50 AM
As long as I'm telling stories on AJ, I might as well tell a funny one. The other night he almost peed on me.

I had been up for a while, but crawled back in bed to snuggle and get warm, since he was sleeping in. All of a sudden his eyes opened, he sat bolt upright, and began barking orders. "Move! Get out of my way! Come on!" Then he ran into the bathroom.

Come to find out, he was dreaming. We women, being much more elegant, dream of toilets. Not AJ. He was walking out in the woods. Walking and walking. He came to a river and began to walk along the bank. Water, flowing rushing water. "Hmmmm," he thought, "I need to go pee, yes I do, and there is the river. How convenient."

Luckily he woke up a split second before he started to go, or he would have been in big trouble. If I even let him sleep in the house the next night, I would have put his blanket in the tub.

Except fot the 4 hour tirade after I told him I knew he was still having sex with her, that was the longest and most vicious.

Guess who?
(((T&L))) & (((Neak))).
Neak, because that would have p*ssed me off too and T & L because it must be hard to hear your daughter's sad words.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/14/06 03:20 PM
Thank you for the hugs, TT. You know, I paused typing that last night so AJ & I could pray together over the phone, at his initiative.

Life is so different now. I feel like I have multiple personality disorder even thinking about the past. Or maybe I slipped through a wormhole into an alternate universe, a good universe.

But no. HE'S the one with MPD. HE'S the one with the wormhole. I am normal. I am sane. I never thought the A would end, by the end, and it's still surprising how much better everything is now that it's over.
I am normal. I am sane.

So true, and it has made all the difference in the world.


Thank you for the hugs, TT.

No thanks for the frowny-face emoticons? You know, the ones with their mouths firmly shut, scowling in total silence, the epitome of control and restraint in the face of extreme provocation? Hm-m-m-mph.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/14/06 10:54 PM
Wonderful control and restraint. It never occurred to me it would provoke you, though.

SS, I keep having to remind myself that I'm sane, because some days it really feels like I fell into an episode of The Twilight Zone, then staggered out into real life a while later, somewhat the worse for wear.

Life is so normal most days it's hard to believe I didn't hallucinate the whole thing. Imaginary scars on my mind and heart. The air of unreality is just, well, unreal.

Wonderful control and restraint. It never occurred to me it would provoke you, though.

Your trust and confidence in me is enormously touching--heartwarming, even...and entirely misplaced!!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/15/06 02:28 AM
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/16/06 12:33 PM
A couple days ago, when I went to town, I went by the workplace where the A started, in order to return (another) one last thing, a small piece of equipment I found while cleaning.

The last time when I dropped the badges off the new building was nearly ready, so I figured they would be moving into it, and they had. What I didn't expect was the sight that met my eyes when I walked around the corner.

The old building, where it all started, was completely and totally gone. There was nothing left except mud and puddles. Completely razed to the ground, and only muck left behind. How appropriate!

(I did get a bit of a startle when I asked the unfamiliar, squat woman behind the counter, "What's your name? I don't recognize you." And she replied, "I'm Gargamel, but not the other one, heh heh." No kidding.))

I'm happy I saw that before I leave. It's too bad all A-genic buildings can't be torn down, but I don't suppose we'd have many left. (And it's probably too much to hope that her house and the Holiday Inn Express in Lodi get destroyed also. The store where she was working when the A renewed went out of business, though. Seriously, I had nothing to do with it. )

Hope all the rest of you are as fine and dandy as possible, and that you have a lovely day with your families, or friends, or at least yourselves. Trust me, you are better company to yourself than any WS can ever be to you, so on the chance that you are alone today, thank God that you are out of the chaos for a little while and enjoy the peace. Recovery will come soon enough and you need to save your strength for that.

{{{{{{{{MB Buddies}}}}}}}}}}
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/21/06 07:55 AM
Today's Twilight Zone I walked out and put my hand on the mailbox, I just had the sudden feeling that there would be a notice of a certified letter from Certain People. There was a notice, but it didn't say who it was from. (Our postal workers are often lazy here.) It could be from her, or the state of CA, or the labor board. Anyway, it was weird.

Note to self: Tell about last night, but do it tomorrow.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/23/06 12:00 AM
Additional note to self: Do not catch germs while caring for sick hubby.

Small note on the mystery certified letter: sadly, was too sick yesterday to ask or care where it came from, so I won't know for sure till Monday, but it was made out directly to AJ and most of the corporate items are made out to the corporation. So, we'll see.

Anyhoo, Wednesday night was one of the worst for AJ, before the antibiotics started kicking the little streptococcusbutts. He finally fell asleep about 9 or 10. I was restless, so I watched some TV and hung out here for a while till I thought I heard him call me.

He had indeed, having been awakened by a fresh bout of feverish chills. I petted him, soothed him, medicated him, watered him, petted him some more, and almost got him to doze off. Then, about midnight, just as I was finally getting drowsy, he decided to stagger in and take a shower to try and bring his fever down some.

So I pried my eyelids back open and accompanied him. Sorry, no reports of anything interesting in the marital bliss department, even if I were so crass as to use that to try and boost my ratings, lol. I just washed him down while he stood under the water and shook. Not very romantic.

When I was done, he leaned over onto me and said he was sorry for being so much trouble to me. I assumed at the time that he meant in general over the last year+, though I have since realized he could just have meant being sick and me waiting on him. I hope he meant the first, since I sweetly cooed, "I forgive you." At least he was too sick to remember much if I got it wrong.

Then last night, after he felt bad for not helping clean house, and seeing me drag my sorry self around in little spurts throughout the day, made me a giant bubble bath at bedtime, all for myself, while he had worship with the kids. That made some great love deposits, lemme tell ya.

Mom helped me to realize yesterday that I had neglected to share an interesting little anecdote from a few months ago. See, there's this wonderful kids' program on TBN called K10C, which is short for Kids' 10 Commandments. Apparently they only have 9 or 10 shows, each one illustrating a commandment.

Well, one of them popped up called Stolen Jewels, Stolen Hearts. I cannot stand to watch it, but of course the kids loooooooooved it, and watched it over and over and over and over and over and over again.

After completing it for the umpteenth time, my 9yo piped up, "Daddy, what's adultery?"

There was stunned silence for a moment, before the predictable response. "Um, ask your mother." He breathed a sigh of relief at his cleverness.

I know I stammered something, and it seemed to make sense to the 3 of them, but even with my brain temporarily frozen, a part of me was rofl at AJ's discomfiture, and it still makes me snicker every time I think of it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/23/06 12:13 AM
Ack! They're watching it again!!!!!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/24/06 09:43 PM
The mystery letter was from the Labor Board. Whew! It's a relief to know I'm not psychic.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/24/06 09:43 PM

There are a couple of things that have been on my heart to discuss, though it may take me a bit to get through them. First will be some stories and Bible promises I found helpful in getting through the nightmare, and then some of the things I have learned about prayer, specifically how to lift up your wayward loved ones to God. The Bible tells us many things we can ask for, both for ourselves and for others, and be assured God hears us.

The story of Sennacherib is found in 2 Kings 18, 2 Chronicles 31 & 32, and also in Isaiah 36 & 37. (All the following quotes are paraphrases.)

The nation of Israel had become divided, with the kingdom of Israel in the north, and the kingdom of Judah in the south. All the kings of Israel were wicked, but once in a while Judah had a good king. Hezekiah was one of those few.

At the age of only 25, Hezekiah became king of Judah, and went right to work overturning the wickedness of the people. He destroyed the altars, high places, and groves of the idol Baal, and called the people to worship again in the house of the Lord.

As an interesting side note, he was the one who destroyed the brass serpent Moses had made. After receiving the Ten Commandments, while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, their rebellion removed God's protection from them and they were attacked by venomous snakes.

To stem the outbreak, and as an object lesson, God instructed Moses to make a serpent from brass, and raise it on a pole where all the people could see it. All who looked on it would live. It was a beautiful picture of the salvation Jesus would offer. A snake in the Bible, represents Satan/evil, so we have the paradox of evil offering salvation to God's people.

Jesus said, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me." (John 12:32) And 2 Corinthians 5:21 says, "For He has made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." Essentially, Jesus, who was perfect and blameless, was nailed to the cross and destroyed AS SIN, all so we could have the righteousness of God, through His death and resurrection.

Well, that serpent on a stick had become just one more idol to the children of Israel, and they worshipped it as if it had magical powers within itself. They called it Nehushtan. Because something that should have been a reminder of God’s healing power and His promise of deliverance from sin, had become a stumbling block, Hezekiah destroyed it, too, for the sake of the people.

The Assyrians had taken over the land of Israel, and for years the Israelites had paid tribute. To meet the outrageous demands, Hezekiah even gave the Assyrian king all the silver from the Temple treasury and his own, and broke the gold off the Temple doors, and peeled it off the overlaid pillars.

The prophets had brought messages from the Lord that the Assyrian power was about to be broken, and at last Hezekiah rebelled and refused to pay any more tribute. The Assyrians went after the northern kingdom first, and laid siege to Samaria, the capital. After the 10 northern tribes had been subdued and taken captive, a vast army marched toward Jerusalem. Humanly, there was no hope. Even with the siege preparations that had been made, food gathered, water sources ensured (the people also blocked up the water sources outside the city so the Assyrians would not have easy access to water), the walls repaired, weapons made, Hezekiah could only last so many years. And the Assyrians had nothing better to do than wait.

He encouraged his men, telling them, “Don’t be afraid of the king of Assyria. He may have a giant army, but there are still more of us than there are of them, because we have God on our side.”

When the enemy army surrounded the city, Rab-shakeh stood close to the wall and shouted to the men who guarded Jerusalem, reading them a letter from Sennacherib, king of Assyria. It was very long, but basically he said, “Tell Hezekiah that the great king of Assyria has sent him a message. Whom does he trust, that he dares to rebel against me? Is it Egypt? Egypt is only a weak reed, and will not save you. Is it the Lord?

“You know, if you would swear loyalty to the great king, he would give you two thousand horses, IF you even have enough riders to put on them. You aren’t even strong enough to turn away the captain of one of the least of my master’s servants, much less the whole army!

“Am I here without your god? He’s the one who told me to destroy you!”

At this point, two of the men on the wall interrupted him. “We speak the Syrian language. Please say what you have to say in that language so the men on the walls do not understand.”

Rab-shakeh sneered at them. “Why shouldn’t they understand? They are the ones who are going to be consuming their own bodily wastes before this is over with.” He raised his voice even louder. “Do not let Hezekiah deceive you. Do not trust in him, and do not trust in your god. If you make an agreement with us now, we will spare your lives, and you will get to keep your houses and lands, at least until we take you with us back to our country, which by the way, is just as beautiful as yours.

“Look around you. Have the gods of the other nations delivered them? Where are the gods of Hamath? What about Arpad? Sepharvaim, Hena, and Ivah…the list goes on. Which god has saved his people from my hand? Well guess what, your god is not going to save you from me, either.”

The people obeyed the king’s order, and kept a dignified silence. Somehow or other they got the letter to King Hezekiah. If I were writing a book about it, they would have lowered a small basket over the wall, since that seems most likely. I know they wouldn’t have opened the gates, and Rab-shakeh probably didn’t throw it, either. Well, however he got it, Hezekiah took it and did something amazing. He tore his clothing and put on sackcloth to show his great sorrow and humility, then took the letter and spread it out in the house of the Lord.

Kneeling before the altar, he prayed long and earnestly, believing that if the repentance of the children of Israel was complete, that God would step in and strike down the Assyrians for their blasphemous and boastful words. He believed the message he had received from Isaiah, that he was not to fear, for God was going to send a blast upon King Sennacherib, that he would hear a rumor and return to his own land, and he would die there.

“Oh Lord of hosts, God of Israel, You only are the God over all the kingdoms of the earth. Bend down your ear, Lord and hear, open Your eyes and see, and listen to all the words Sennacherib has used to bring scorn upon You.

“You know what they did to all the other countries, and burned their idols. You also know that this happened because they weren’t really gods – only chunks of wood and stone. Save us Lord, save us, so that everyone will know that You are the one true God.”

Isaiah sent Hezekiah another message. God was obviously not happy with the Assyrians. Basically, He told them, “You don’t know Who you’re messing with here. Don’t you know I made everything?” But my favorite part was where God tells what will be the outcome of the siege. (Exact quote, Isaiah 37:33-35) ”Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the king of Assyria, He shall not come into this city, nor shoot an arrow there, nor come before it with shields, nor cast a bank against it. By the way the he came, by the same shall he return, and shall not come into this city, saith the Lord. For I will defend this city to save it for mine own sake, and for my servant David’s sake.”

(Note: Upon first reading this, I took it as a promise that God would send the OW packing before my H screwed her. Well, I can guarantee He wanted to, but as we will discuss in future segments, there is a difference between God’s will and man’s will. In this story, God would not have been able to work the might deliverance that He did, if the people had opened the gate to the enemy. If they opened the gate and later repented, He would have helped them drive the enemy out again, but the cost would be greater in lives lost and in pain suffered. It was not that I should not have prayed that promise, or applied it to my life, but I did not yet understand the nature of affairs, and it never occurred to me that AJ would be not only opening the gate, but inviting the Assyrians in for tea.)

God kept His promise. Sennacherib heard that another king was coming to attack him, and that night the angel of the Lord went through the Assyrian camp and killed 185,000 of them. Being somewhat petrified, the rest of them packed up and went home in a tearing hurry, prepared to go home and fight the other king. After his return, Sennacherib was worshipping his god in the temple of Nisroch when two of his sons killed him by the sword.

One of my favorite promises through this was from Isaiah 59:19. “So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.” (Or her.)

Though we always have a part to play, a work to do (in this case i.e. Plan A, exposure, etc.), ultimately it is God who fights our battles for us, whether in affairs or in life. Hezekiah did not just sit back and wait for the Assyrians, saying that God would protect him no matter what. He gathered food. He ensured the water. He blocked up the water sources the enemy might be able to access. He prepared his men of war. He repaired the city wall. He built towers. He built ANOTHER wall around the first one. And then, when he had done absolutely everything in the world it was humanly possible for him to do, and knowing it would still not be enough against the Assyrian horde, THEN he trusted to God to make up the difference for what it was impossible for him to do.

By attacking our families, the OP is just as much bringing scorn upon God as Sennacherib did. And, sadly, our dear spouses help them in this. But it is appropriate for us to lift the situation to God in prayer, and ask Him to help us to withstand the blasphemous attack against us. Many days I would sit there in front of the laptop sobbing at a new graphic message (for any newer folk, AJ had Nextel, so I could view all his sent and received text messages from the internet), and would lay that letter before God just as Hezekiah did. I would plead with Him to keep His promise of deliverance, and send her back to her own land. (I wouldn’t have complained if an angel had slain her in the night, but resisted asking for that. )

I would say to God, “Do you she what she says here? This wickedness cannot go unstopped. Please put an end to it as soon as possible. I know you do not force us to do anything, and will not force AJ to make right choices even if I asked, but you also promised to fight our battles for us, and defend us, and save us. Please do whatever you need to do to get this wicked woman out of our lives forever, and to help us have the kind of family that You want us to have.”

Of course I didn’t have to show God the letters; He knew all about each one before I did. But by presenting them to Him, and asking Him to do something about it, it demonstrated my faith. And even with only a little bit of wobbly, misguided, misinterpreted faith, it was enough for Him to use, to bring His honor and glory out of tragedy.

One last note (for the moment), is that deliverance never happens on our timetable. It always takes too long! I’m sure Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would have preferred to be delivered before they were thrown into the fiery furnace, but they were not. They were saved through it. Same thing with us. We are delivered on God’s schedule, and with His timing, and not by our impatient wishes. It seems so long when you’re going through an A, (and recovery too, I might add), and yet God waits until the right moment to act. Usually this is long after we think He should have acted. Maybe it won’t be the timing we thought we wanted, or in the way we think it should have been, but God will always send help in the time and way that will best work out the plan He has for us: the plan which, if we could see it all as He sees it, would be the very one we would choose.

Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. Isaiah 58:9a

One last note (for the moment), is that deliverance never happens on our timetable.

ain't that the truth

and sometimes

our job

is to step out of the way

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/25/06 03:43 AM
Thank you Pep. That is so true in all aspects of life.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/25/06 03:55 AM
I am trying not to obsess about Gargamel. Not, not, not! But in addition to all the usual reminders, tomorrow DS9 goes to STAR testing 1 1/2 miles down the hill, on the same road as her house. Maybe you city folk think that's a long way, but any of you that live in the country understand that I might as well stand at the bottom of her driveway and blow a trumpet, especially when I'm on the path leading to....everywhere from her house. It's not like in the city, where you can go this way or the other way around the block. You follow one road for quite a way before getting to an intersection that offers options. And the test site is right along that one way.

So I am trying to psych myself up for the rest of the week of that. But have AJ take him? Not on your life!!!!!!

And then I had to go pick up my poor little car from the windshield shop. AJ had dropped it off, and described the location to me. "Well, it's pretty close to Douglas Tire, across the street from the Ford dealership, and right next to the Economy Inn."

A much more accurate description would be, "It is directly between the Economy Inn, and the Holiday Inn Express where I rutted with my mistress." But that's ok, I figured it out quickly enough once I got there.

I try to avoid that area whenever possible, but good grief, I had to get my car. Grrrrr. How dare they put a decent establishment there?

So now that I have complained, I mean vented, I will go try to think of something else for the rest of the evening. But don't think of Gargamel is a lot like don't think of pink elephants.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 03:33 AM
Here we are, 10 months into recovery, and MoFo too.

Amazing. A year ago I would never have thought it possible that things would be this good again, though I wasn't q-u-i-t-e out of hope. Was hot and heavy into my preparations for Plan B, and wishing it would work quickly.

I'm not over this, not even close, but have gotten fairly skillful at redirecting my thoughts into positive channels and dwelling more in the present.

I think AJ hardly thinks of it at all unless something forcibly reminds him.
Posted By: zuj Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 03:48 AM

You seem so positive on posts to me, and here I find you in torment too.

Recovery - such a word I wish and pray for.

I am really glad that things are good, and I hope that you are able to get better and better very quickly.

To know that IF all things go well with WH and I, that I will feel like this for months, if not years, is a very scary thought.

Hugs today

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 03:53 AM
Oh, I guess I never updated on the STAR testing. He finished yesterday after only an hour of work (good boy! for a change...). There was only one likely sighting. The first day she was gone when I dropped him off, and on my way down the hill I saw a vehicle that was either hers or identical to it going the other way. Then, when I picked him up a couple hours later she was home. The second day she was there when I dropped him off and gone an hour later.

My other recent trigger is the house AJ applied to rent a few doors down has a For Rent sign out front again. It is a reminder to me every time I drive past, so I have to grit my teeth and think happy thoughts for a while, going and coming.

It is weird how stuff will bother me only small to medium when I am alone, and send me into a stupor when AJ is there with me. Like last month when AJ watched Jarhead and the adultery part came on without warning. Once I could move, I went into the bathroom and cried for a long time. I came back and sat with him, (just staring into space and not really watching the movie), but ready to jump up and run away if anything else like that happened. Had I watched it by myself (me watch a war movie voluntarily....bwaaahaaaahaaaa) it would have bothered me quite a bit but I wouldn't have lost any marbles over it - I would have just turned it off and done something else.

Or the new version of the Ten Commandments, which that just reminded me of. We started out watching it together. It tried to show each of the commandments being broken, though I didn't catch onto that until later or I would have been forewarned. When the adulterous pair sat up with a gasp, "I have betrayed my wife!" "I have betrayed my husband!", I shut down again. It was very late and I was too groggy to get up, so I hid my head and don't remember anything else.

But a couple of nights later, when he went to sleep early and I was wide awake, I went back and watched that part again. I will be honest to my discredit. Mostly I was hoping they got stoned. When the wicked pair kissed each other it made me squirm, but I remained conscious. And yes, they did end up getting stoned, after they killed the BH when he found them together. I was actually glad I saw it, and only a little maliciously so. It is kind of weird, because although I would not want AJ to be stoned, and would even grant Gargamel her life if I held ultimate power, it seemed to be a good reminder to me that God sees all, knows all, and He will judge and administer both justice and mercy. Justice if sin is cherished, and mercy if it is forgiven and forsaken.

But I digress. I don't know if I'm the only one or not, but it is just strange to me how differently I react to the same stimulus, depending on whether AJ is there or not. Weird, just weird.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 03:59 AM
Thanks, Juzzie. Hugs to you, too.

It takes a long while to recover from this, no doubt. Adultery is the gift that keeps on giving.

What keeps recovery from being worse is one of the very things that makes it so disconcerting. It's like having multiple personality disorder: there is the part of you that is stuck in this horrible experience that is slow to fade and slow to heal, and there is the part of you that is happy and content in a wonderful, fulfilling marriage.

So it is not all bad, and not all good, and frequently both at the same time.

Plus I also had other serious stresses early into recovery that I'm sure made it more difficult than it would have been otherwise, along the lines of multiplication rather than simple addition. So I can at least offer the hope that it is a little easier for most of you.

Thought I would pipe in real quick. I too experience a difference of emotions from when WW is with me to when she's not. I can't explain it, but I know it's there. My first thought was that deep down we want this person to see how much we hurt and we can't do that if they aren't there, but I don't know.

Anywho, vaya con Dios.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 02:51 PM
I wonder if, in the face of those harsh reminders, his presence actually becomes an additional pain, an addiitional trigger, enough extra pain to push me over the edge into protective mode?

For me, anyway, it's not about wanting him to see how much I hurt. My tendencies are stiff upper lip and stifle, and it requires a huge effort to let him know, even in the blandest possible way, that I am hurting. I have no trouble talking to him about problem stuff, or discussing just about anything under the sun, except for my pain.

Go with God, also.

it requires a huge effort to let him know, even in the blandest possible way, that I am hurting. I have no trouble talking to him about problem stuff, or discussing just about anything under the sun, except for my pain.

WW and I can talk and do talk about any myriad of things. I'm certain that I've built an emotional wall around around the pain associated with the affair(s) though. And not even the As so much as the deception, but it's all in the same load of wash, if you know what I mean.

I know that when that particular subject comes up with WW, I hurt like I have never hurt before in my life. Keep in mind that I grew up in an abusive house... all kind of childhood trauma which, fortunately, I did not carry over to my kids or my wife.

While I CAN get emotional when talking about this with MC or MIL or neighbor, it's almost like I don't have a choice with WW. Not by design, but she can get through my emotional wall. It's like there's a door in the wall and she's got the spare key.

BUT we don't talk R or A unless we're both emotionally prepared to do it. No suprise attacks. War or not, this battlefield has rules. I guess what I'm getting at is over 12 years I learned to lower defenses to my spouse and it's a habit. I've never been more intimate, open or honest with anyone in my life.

Amor en Christo.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 03:18 PM
I see what you're saying.

I didn't used to be like this, but I guess with so much pain in such a short period of time, I ended up building bulwarks that no one close to me gets through, except on very rare occasions. It is far easier to share those kinds of things here, in a more impersonal environment, than to talk about them. I just choke and can't say a word. I even had to write it out when I let AJ know that my due date was bothering me. Try as I might, I couldn't say it to him out loud.

It's probably a good thing that I am doing enough better that there's not as much right this moment to keep walled off. With a smaller amount of active pain, there is not as much to try and defend.

Once in a while I have a day where I don't feel like I've gotten anywhere, but I really am getting better.
Hi Neak:

Sorry that I haven't had chance to post to you sooner.

I want to let you know that I've been reading your posts here and nodding my head, remembering when I was at your same place in this drama.

I even had a thread here about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, talking about my flashbacks,etc.

It takes time but it does get better.

Days go by and I realize that I have not thought about the FOW at all that day...used to think about her daily.

Keep this a secret. OK? I'm still trying to come up with some innocent(for want of a better word) form of revenge...not to ugly, resulting in bodily harm but some form of justice...I HAVE MY FANTASIES OF THIS...UGLY...

All I can do is pray and leave it in God's hands..because vengeance is his..against the enemies of the righteous....

Hang in there, my sister in Recovery....

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/28/06 09:20 PM
Thanks, Sis. I'm sure you know the next best thing to being all-the-way-well is knowing that other people understand what you're experiencing.

I remember your PTSD thread. I still startle very badly, but that's all I can recall offhand except the triggers.

How I laughed when you said...well I won't repeat it since it's a secret. Itching powder has crossed my mind.

I think of her less and less all the time, once in a while even going a couple of hours, if I am busy. I can't wait till it is only every few days. But the mean part of me hopes she is bothered more by this than I am.

One of my favorite Christian writers says that when a person causes others to suffer, that God brings them over the same ground they have made others walk, in an effort to help them repent, and understand just how terrible their actions have been.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 04/30/06 08:02 PM
Jaw dropping, and will come back later with more detail, but just found out AJ came that close [ ] to running into her about 3 weeks ago. (He says he told me at the time, but either I was asleep, or in the trauma following the narrow escape he thought he did but forgot.}

I was pretty calm when he told me, exept for eyes widening in shock and my voice rising an octave or three. I am going to go break a few things and then I'll feel better.

We are having a BBQ today, soy of course.


Feel a smidge better after acking. Very shocking, but he handled it well.
If he was that close to running into her, was it with his car? And if so, why did he swerve?

Hi Neak,
I've never wrote to you before. I have been lurking
for some time however and have followed most, if not all
of your posts.
I hope that someday you can get to the point of forgiving your OW, as it seems you are working on forgiving your H.
It seems sad and frankly a bit pointless to be still devoting so much of your heart and head to her. I know that you want for her to move on and out of your lives. But do you see that inside you haven't been able to let her go
- your still so focused on her. I fear that until you are
able to truly let her go- it will become that unspoken
pink elephant blocking your recovery.
Your H failed you and you are desperately working to forgive
and move forward and lets face it- he not she was the one that truly hurt you. If she had an affair with any other man other than your H would you have been so devistated?
I'm not saying that she is blamesless at all- but I think
you are trying to make her the one you blame and hate 100%
for this and I don't think it is honest or condusive to
your own recovery.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/01/06 03:12 PM
Thank you for taking the time to post to me, Pegster. I appreciate your input and honesty. I would like to comment on what you said, for clarification rather than justification.

I struggle daily with resentment toward my H. It's something I don't think I have really talked about here, not even really a deliberate choice like "I will not talk about my resentment on MB," but more like "I will talk and think of my resentment as little as possible." I am taking it on faith when Dr. Harley says if you address the A issues and simply work on being together and building a happy marriage, the resentment and anger will eventually fade. I have seen it improve in myself: it was like having a long-standing temperature of 106.5F that gradually lowered to, say, 100.2F. It is still there constantly, still somewhat bothersome, but not at the critical all-consuming stage it was for a while. I believe it will eventually go away if I continue not to dwell on it.

Something else that does not show on here, just because of the nature of MB, is that for the majority of my life, my thoughts of Gargamel are at about the same level as the resentment toward my H. Always there, always palpable, but low enough that I can ignore it and function in life.

Having said that, I acknowledge that you are completely correct that I think too much about her, at times. I think there are two main reasons for that. One, since you are familiar with my story, you will remember that I have been dealing with her on an ongoing basis up until just a few months ago. Believer and others expressed concern that the continued contact due to the financial situation would significantly set back my recovery, and it has. In some areas my recovery is only a few months along, instead of almost a year. The other reason is that, tripping over her all the time the way I do, her presence continues to open half-healed wounds and pour salt in them for good measure.

The incident with AJ, all he did was go into one of the local grocery store to get a few groceries. She was not there when he got there, or of course he would have gone somewhere else. It is just as probable that she saw his car and went in to find him. While he was peaceably pushing his cart up and down the aisles, he saw her turn the corner right ahead of him. A second or two sooner, and they would have been in the same aisle. He left his cart right where it was and slipped out of the store. Incidents like this, and her driving past me at the little intersection a few miles from the house, only serve to emphasize the feeling that nowhere is safe from having her pop up unexpectedly.

You are doubtless aware that we are moving out of state (for nobler reasons than this, although it will serve the secondary purpose of removing us from this painful situation) as soon as the house sells. But even knowing there is a time limit on how long I will have to put up with this, it still rubs me raw when I keep encountering her almost half the time I set foot outside the gate. It stirs up the resentment I feel toward both of them, not just her, and it takes a great effort to decompress each time.

Up until now I have looked on this place as somewhere I can come and safely vent, helping to clear her from my mind and return things to the low-level irritation that is the status quo. I had no idea it would have this kind of impact on others, so thank you for calling my attention to that. I apologize to you, and to anyone else who has been negatively influenced by my venting about this. In the future I will find some other way to deal with the agitations of seeing her, and to calm back down again.

Again, thank you for posting.
It's not easy to see the OP and not feel things like anger, resentment, spite, hatred etc. Fortunately, in my sitch, I'm not around any of the OM, but if I were, I'm unsure if I would be able to control myself.

An A takes 2 people at least. While the one that hurts you the most is your spouse, that's also the one that you love the most. The OP is suddenly a speed bump in your road of life and if you run OP over with your car, you might not think twice about it. I am NOT suggesting killing anyone. Don't read this and go run anybody over! The feelings are there. We're all entitled to them.
I'm glad to hear that you will be moving- certainly the
distance will help- especially your head but what about
your heart.
I believe that words and thoughts have power- usually over us- to continue to refer to this xOW as Gargamel- well,
it bothers me- because it tells me your holding onto something you need to let go of.
Lastly my post was based on what I have read of your posts-
since your not sharing the same amount of vent towards H-
to me it appeared a bit imbalanced. My apologies.
You know, pegster2pink1, it has been 3 years for me since D-day. OW and my WH have been living together all of that time.

OW was a neighbor, and she still comes by once a week to visit her husband and 14 year old daughter. She loves to drive by my house, and smirk and flip her hair. There is another street that goes directly to her husband's house, but she prefers to drive down my street. I have asked my husband and her husband to ask her not to drive by my house, but she continues to do it.

Even though I am done with WH and we are divorcing, I do get resentful of her driving by. It is just so unnecessary. She has my husband, the life that should have been mine. She helped WH blow our retirement savings.

Shouldn't that be enough?

IMO, it is not Ok for you to feel the need to hold back from talking about your resentment towards the FOW. It is helpful to others who are feeling your same feelings. Your feelings ARE WHAT THEY ARE...

Of course, I say this because when I was at your point..I had the same feelings about the FOW....I came on here and vented and got lots of HELP with this...some folks validating my viewpoint..others saying that I needed to move on...

IT DOES TAKE did for me..I've come to the conclusion that we are all different and that we move at our own pace..based on our particular situations.

Actually, you've been helpful to me in your discussions about this, making me feel that I am not alone. You got me to thinking. The difference between my H and the OW is that he has asked for my forgiveness, is repentant is truly sorry about what he did..lets me know this often. This is not true of the OW and that's why I have held on to my feelings about her. Recently, I got to thinking... just maybe that the OW is sorry by now. But, the last I heard from her she was calling on my voicemail and calling me the B word, calling my house playing songs for my H to hear (had to change our number AGAIN)...heard her begging my H to leave you see, I am left with a "bad taste in my mouth", Steve H., himself, referred to her as the "drug dealer" and felt that she would try to get to him if she FWH also seems intimidated by her pull and goes through extreme measures to avoid seeing her or talking to her...HE WANTS TO MOVE OUT OF TOWN...

We had a discussion on here about the books People of the Lie..I decided she was one..and Bold which the author stated a belief that we are not called as Christians to FORGIVE the unrepentant...I agree with that belief...

So, Neak, let's continue to discuss, My Sister in Recovery...

It will get due time...

That is truly awful.
Although I don't think it is specifically relevant to my
comments to Neak.
XOW are entitled to go to the grocery store and have jobs and move forward with their lives just as Neak's former WH is allowed. From her posts it sounds like there are not too
many routes available to ensure lack of distanced contact.
Again, I'm glad she and her famly are able to move away.
By the way, Welcome to MarriageBuilders.
Have you thought that maybe your H represents her drug.
She is addicted to him also....that's why she is fighting
so hard to try and renew contact.
If she is single she has no marriage to repair- to focus
her energies on- hence she's desperate for that high.
I also encourage Neak to continue to discuss her feelings
regarding XOW. But I would also encourage her to discuss
and vent about her feeling regarding FWH. I think a fuller
picture would also benefit others in similar positions.
I'll let Neak speak for herself but my negativity is specifically focused on the FOW in my situation and not ALL FOW. There are OW who have learned from their mistakes, are repentant and wish BSes no harm.. But, in reality, there are some others who are loony and/or evil....and have not changed.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/01/06 04:26 PM
No need for apologies. One of the down sides, and there are very few, of a forum like this is you only know what a person is thinking about at that moment, it does not always reflect the full picture.

If my H were triggering me on a regular basis, I would need to vent about him, too.

One of my dear friends on Idiotville began to refer to her as Gargamel after yet another episode of her using the necessary monetary contact to try and make trouble between AJ & I. After a particularly vicious attack that upset me very much (though with the help of my good advisors I never let on to her), he was trying to give me a little perspective about what she was doing. By calling her Gargamel, because of her propensities for stirring the pot, he hoped to, and at least partially succeeded in bringing me some distance, and not taking the numerous attacks quite so personally.

So when I call her Gargamel it is actually a reminder to give her less power over me, and not more. She is a pot-stirrer by her very nature, and that is not something I should take to heart. Most days I can remember that. I do not call her Gargamel in a mean way. It is light and flippant, trivializing things she would very much wish to make big, weighty, and important.

It is not as inflammatory as Monkeyho (no offense to Peachy), or Psychobabblerabbit (no offense to Orchid). I like this quote from Peachy:


I have found if you give the OP a nickname that is ironic, or on some level amusing, YOU TAKE AWAY ANY MYSTERY AND POWER THEY's hilarious.

I have found this to be true for me, as well.

I believe I have forgiven her, but also that this in no way removes the surge of feelings I have, and continue to have, every single time I see her. It is something I struggle with every time.

Drex, you would be very proud of me. NOT ONE of the times I've seen her have I even swerved slightly in her direction.

I'll be back in a little...gotta get the kids back on track.
Neak, I AM proud of you. It's ok to dream though. <grinz>
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/01/06 05:56 PM
I can see one way B's comments specifically apply to me.

If B, after 3 years, still feels a certain amount of resentment, especially when her OW seems bent on rubbing B's face in this, then it means I am normal.

"Normal" does not necessarily mean "Ok", or "Can continue indefinitely", but it does show that the process past this is slow, everyone goes at their own pace, and if I am not as far along as some, I am at least pointed in the right direction.

It actually makes me feel better that dear, wonderful people who are much farther along than I am, still feel this way sometimes. It takes away some of the pressure I feel (self-imposed) to heal faster.

I cannot stay this way, and I recognize that, but I also believe that I will get better, given more time.

AJ is home today, so there will be a limit how long I can park myself at the computer, but I'll be in and out to comment on the other comments that were made while I was posting before.

Thanks to everyone for their input. I have always found differing viewpoints to be educational and helpful.

Have you thought that maybe your H represents her drug.
She is addicted to him also....that's why she is fighting
so hard to try and renew contact.
If she is single she has no marriage to repair- to focus
her energies on- hence she's desperate for that high.
I also encourage Neak to continue to discuss her feelings
regarding XOW. But I would also encourage her to discuss
and vent about her feeling regarding FWH. I think a fuller
picture would also benefit others in similar positions.

Peg, AMEN to all of this. You are very insightful and on target, I think. I agree with Neak's need to also talk about her FWH. Thanks for your response.


I also don't post much if at all when at home with my FWH. There is a FWS SCRIPT, too.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/01/06 10:29 PM

I'll let Neak speak for herself but my negativity is specifically focused on the FOW in my situation and not ALL FOW.

For me, yes....and no. Yes, in that she is half the cause of my pain, and I give her exactly half the negative focus. No, in that at the same time I could also have negative feelings if I knew/heard of another OW behaving in a similar way to her.

I would have been hurt just as much had AJ chosen someone else to have an A with.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/01/06 10:39 PM
Perhaps you two are right, that I need to discuss the resentment toward my H. I'm certainly willing to give it a try.

I don't think it would have been as beneficial to anyone had I tried to discuss it while I was exploding with anger. (Not at him - only inside.) It might have been one more outlet, but would have been so harsh also. I think the most important factor in dealing with it was winning the battle for my thoughts, thank you again SS.

Not that there aren't still skirmishes throughout the day even yet, but my mind is not consumed by it like before, I am better at rerouting my mind into good channels than before, and I really think I can discuss it now without excessive harm to my blood pressure.

Mimi, I foresee we are going to have some interesting discussions on forgiveness. Who knows - it may even turn out we are saying the same thing, just expressing it a different way. If not, I'm sure we will have no trouble agreeing to disagree.

I had to smile at what you said about your computer time being limited while your FWH was home. Yours prolly wants his snuggle-bunny pretty handy, too, right?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/06/06 05:53 AM
So much to say, and so little time in which to say it, at least for tonight.

First off, it is one year now since PBL #1. Last night was the 1 yr of when he got the letter, and today is the 1 yr since we began Recovery #1. It's amazing how much has been packed into that one year.

For the record, my physical condition is hugely improved from what it was a week or so ago when I took up weeding as a hobby. (SS smiles proudly.) Yesterday, in addition to regular housework, I began loosening the soil for the garden with a pitchfork (oh to have a rototiller), did an area about 7x4 so far, ran the weedeater for more than a half hour, and then started loosening the soil in one of the weed-overgrown flower beds, too.

Of course I could hardly move today, but still managed to get quite a bit of cleaning done. If this keeps up, I will soon be back to normal, whatever that is.

Mom asked me about the references I have made to weakness, and when I told her I had never been back up to par since all the bleeding, and that being sick several times hadn't helped any either, she checked my gums and conjunctiva. The concensus (between she, herself, and her), was that while I was not too terrible - the day I almost fainted in church all my mucous membranes were pasty white - that I wasn't even yet quite what I should be, and it would be a good idea to look up iron-rich vegetable and eat some of them for a while. Which I will do. When Nurse T&L says something would be a good idea, you'd better have done it yesterday.

Last night I had a big long dream that I was PG again, but with a girl this time. I made sure I could feel it every second, so I would know it was still alive. All the while thinking it was very convenient that I hadn't even known I was PG until around 15 weeks, when I would be able to feel it move.

Which was not anywhere as bad as the dream I had a few nights ago where somebody had unburied him and I had to either bury him back in a mess, or put him back in his blankie myself. Of course I chose the latter, but the whole dream was icky and clung to me for a good two days after.

However, with such a plethora of physical labor, I am back to dropping off to sleep as soon as I sit down in the evenings. In fact, I am getting drowsy now, so I will walk around a bit, serve up my strawberry shortcake before that thieving Dervish wakes up and eats all the strawberries (for the third time) and I don't get any, and then I'll be back.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/06/06 06:25 AM
First things first. I have a few brief comments on forgiveness, and will go into my thoughts more deeply once I have a chance to talk more about prayer.

I believe the Bible illustrates two kinds of forgiveness. One is shown when Jesus, as the soldiers were nailing Him to the cross, prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." The other kind of forgiveness is found in 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In the first case, this intermediary forgiveness is what would apply to those of us who have been harmed by someone, whether by adultery or something else. It has two main uses.

1. Removing that sin from the record of the guilty party. Did God forgive the sins of the soldiers when Jesus asked Him to? Of course. That grievous sin no longer stained their records. But was that forgiveness enough to save them? By itself, no.

2. Showing the heart of the intermediary to be pure and untainted by hatred. Jesus was not exactly thrilled to be impaled on those wooden cross beams, and yet He asked forgiveness for the guilty men WHILE THEY WERE STILL DOING IT, because in His heart of love there was no room for bitterness, only pity. He must have known the fiery destruction that waited for them if they did not progress to the second level of forgiveness, and longed with every ounce of Himself to spare them that; to keep them forever with Him.

The second type of forgiveness is a saving forgiveness, springing from repentance. This is where the guilty person comes to the realization that what they have done is wrong, they are sorry, they tell God, and He purifies them from EVERYTHING!

So the first type of forgiveness comes by the request of an innocent party, and though it is not without impact, is nowhere near as far-reaching as the second type of forgiveness, where the guilty one themself asks for pardon, and with God's help leaves the sin behind.

When we ask for forgiveness for our OP or WS, God hears us and answers our prayer. And while that alone does not bring the infidels salvation, it does remove a barrier, as well as making our (the BS's) heart right with God, having love and not cherishing anger.

And as far as us forgiving the OP, how can we not forgive them for a sin God has forgiven because we asked Him to? Yes, they have willfully hurt us, but the soldiers hurt Jesus willfully, too. They just did not understand the full magnitude of what they were doing. Neither do the OP/WS grasp the scope of their actions. Not that this excuses them. They are still fully responsible for what they choose, as were the soldiers.

But when we reach the place we can ask God to forgive those who have wounded us, we are that much closer to perfect alignment with the will of God.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/06/06 07:16 AM
Resentment. Wow. That will only take me a year and a half to bring me up to date.

For the purposes of keeping this manageable, let's just assume that everything I have shared so far stirs up resentment every time I think of it, toward both of the guilty parties. And if I think of any previously undiscussed sources of resentment, I will be sure to share them.

Now, to see how this ends up impacting my daily life, you will ride along on a hypothetical trip to town with me. (What made me think of this, is one of my friends came over and went with me to town, and ended up getting the full guided tour, as we went past nearly every bad spot in that neck of the woods.) Since we can only go to one place at a time, we'll start with Jackson, the worst of the lot.

We turn out the driveway and start up the street, the only way in or out of the housing development. There on the right is the stupid For Rent sign on that stupid house that AJ wanted to rent. Deep breath. Try to direct as much aggression as possible on the stupid house, while deep inside acknowledging the injustice of this.

The road winds along, and within about 7 or 8 minutes we reach the intersection where I saw her the other day. We look carefully around, but don't see her. This used to be a safe part of the trip, but not anymore. We have fleeting thoughts of the lookout spot several miles off to the right, where she might have been going that day. It used to be one of our favorite spots. Sometimes we even went miles out of our way to go to town along that route, just so we could stop there for a few minutes and admire the view of the lake. Now all we can think of is how he said he was going to break up with her there, and didn't.

So we drive on.

In about another 5 minutes we reach the highway. Now we are on full alert. This is the major road she would use to go just about anywhere besides Jackson, on the other side of the road is the turnoff to where her horses are kept, and so the chances of an encounter skyrocket. We climb the hill, chatting easily, yet always watching in front, to the rear, and on each side.

Today we have to go by the doctor's office, so we drive up past her bank, then the school where Neaksis' children attend, then past her house. Her car is in the driveway, and we relax. She is not driving around. She is not in Safeway. She is at home.

For whatever reason, going past her house is not as painful as it used to be (unless AJ is there). We note the presence or absence of the vehicle, but are able to mostly keep our thoughts from dwelling on how somewhere in one of those cramped little rooms, our dear one freely traded his honor for a quick squirt of pleasure. Several times. Ok, so it still stings. But our heart does not pump any faster, the hair does not stand up on the backs of our necks; we only squint our eyes a little and grit our teeth.

After seeing the doctor, we debate. We could go miles out of our way on a twisty windy road, and avoid going past her house again. It is a beautiful route, and often we do. But it took so long at the doctor we decide that the peace of mind from one more quick peek to make sure she is still there, is worth any momentary irritation.

We drive past, and this time she is gone. So much for relaxing, but it is better to know. Red alert kicks in. She could be anywhere. We don't even feel a twinge at seeing the house. All we can think is that she's out there....somewhere.

At the corner where her bank is (the one where I went in January to ask the tellers if she was PG), we make a left to get to town. Within a few hundred feet, we drive past the airport road, which also leads to the A-workplace. A wave of memories well up, from taking him lunch the very first day, all the way to meeting him when he got off work for his second day back since starting NC, and not knowing at the time that the reason he didn't remember he had promised to go out with me was that she had left the note on his car that day and he had already broken NC.

A little farther down, also on the left, is the now-infamous print shop where she has been spotted repeatedly. We scan the parking lot, unable to help ourselves, but she is not there.

So we shove all thoughts aside and start down the hill into Jackson. Except there is the Denny's where he took both of us to dinner, just not at the same time. And there is the road to the hospital, which I would rather walk on broken glass barefoot than drive past again, after the trauma inflicted on my poor brain after the last time. If we had had to go to Pine Grove, we would have zigged around on some back roads to get past it.

Almost to the health food store is her other bank, the one from which she drew the very first loan to AJ for the corporation, where he lied and said she just did it and he couldn't stop her because he didn't know until she had done it, when I had seen him leaving the house that morning with a deposit slip, and had the bank fax me a copy of everything the next day. For a moment I fantasize about putting up an exposure poster (billboard?) in that bank, but get a grip quickly, chuckling so you won't guess the unflattering direction of my thoughts.

From the health food store we drive back past her bank, past the Denny's, and because this time we have to stop at Wal Mart, which is right on our way home, we also drive past the Perko's Cafe in which he took her to breakfast the morning I was home alone throwing up from the flu and trying to care for our three small children, and it's right in the same parking lot as the Albertsons where the close call occurred a few weeks ago.

While we are in Wal Mart, we chat unceasingly, just in case they play that awful song again - her A song. (Not his or their A song, oh no. She was not special enough to him to have "their song", and yet he betrayed me for her anyway, which leads to yet another kind of resentment.) They don't play it and we are relieved, but still knowing that someday, somewhere, someone is going to play it again. And we will not be ready.

Back past the turnoff to her horses, past the intersection where I saw her, past the For Rent sign, and finally the relative safety of the driveway. We didn't run into her this time, or the last time, so next time we probably will. We take a deep breath and let it out. The tension drains from us. Smiling, we walk toward the house, where AJ is waiting to watch Jarhead with us.


The next Resentment Installment (not tonight) is entitled, "Is Anywhere Safe?"

(Hint: the answer is no.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/06/06 07:17 AM
PS, the above reminds me of the childrens' book, Bears in the Night, if any of you have read it.
What an excellent facade you have, my very dear daughter!! I realize you learned facade-building from a master (I'd say "mistress, for gender correctness, except that on this site that might not be the best word choice!), but you've taken it several steps beyond anything I've ever hoped to achieve. I don't know whether to be proud or .

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/06/06 10:37 PM
Just a drive-by.

It's not a facade. It's what I've learned to live with and function around.

I have built dams and levees to channel it, and the river only breaks out of its banks once in a while, such as when I see her directly, or one of the other (fewer lately) hard triggers.

It still amazes me, but life eventually goes on.
If it walks like a facade, looks like a facade, quacks like a facade..............

All I meant was that nobody--and that includes the people who inhabit your life with you every day, and love you up close and personal--would ever be able to tell from your calm exterior what was flowing in those "channels", or sloshing around behind your "levees". I learn more about what's going on in your head, from your thread on MB than I could ever learn from watching you myself, not if I did it all day every day of my life. And if it's that way for me, I'll bet you anything it's double and TRIPLE for your husband--who, let's face it, is not the most nuanced guy on the face of the planet--unless you outright tell him, which you often don't. Your father isn't the only clam in the family!!


If we live the facade long enough, it becomes real life.

If you pretend you are brave, it seems to become actual bravery. If it's not........ well, does it really matter?

From "The King and I"

Whistle a Happy Tune

Whenever I feel afraid
I hold my head erect
And whistle a happy tune
So no one will suspect
I'm Afraid.

While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows I'm afraid.

The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people I fear
I fool myself as well!
I whistle a happy tune
And ev'ry single time
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.
Make believe you're brave
And the trick will take you far.
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are

You may be as brave
As you make believe you are!

SS was in a choir in grade school, and we sang this song. It has stuck with me and I pretend many things that help me improve myself. I pretend I can do more than I can, I pretend I am happier than I feel, I pretend I'm not upset sometimes when I am.

I admire how well you cope, even when it's difficult.

Lots of questions for you, little time.

Why would the devil be hounding you so hard right now?
With me, it usually comes just before something good, to try to ruin it.

Think back -

Please make it through this one too. I believe in you.
We'll continue to pray for all of you.

Duplicate post on t&l's thread. Not funny enough to read twice. Don't say I didn't warn you!!!

Neak is in rehab right now, struggling with a difficult recovery to her unfortunate addiction. In other words, the internet has been down all afternoon and the onset of withdrawal was immediate, and so far, severe. What does she think people did for entertainment back in the Cretaceous Period, when I was a girl? Whatever it was, I certainly managed to get in enough trouble doing it, that's for sure! She will be back, she hopes, once Neakbro returns to the nest, and brings his Berkeley B.S. degree in Computer Science with him for a little analysis and repair. I hope she can hold out that long!


Regarding FORGIVENESS, what do you think about Forever's take on this? This was taken from the BOLD LOVE discussion that we had a few months ago. I also bumped up that entire thread for you if you are interested.


Re: Bold Love by Drs. Allender and Longman [Re: A.M.Martin]
#2831572 - Fri Oct 07 2005 06:22 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply


This is all well and good, Forever, but what are you saying, practically?

Are you saying that I should rush over and embrace XH?/WH? and OW, and tell them all is forgiven in a passionate recognition of God's love?


AM Martin -let me end your confusion and put it as succinctly as I know how....without repentance there can BE no forgivenss of sin. You can still 'love the sinner' and not take vindictive action, can even to not hold a grudge against them, but forgiveness is only in response to repentance.

Hope that clears it up for you.

(It was GG who was arguing for forgiveness without repentance, and I was offering an opposing viewpoint)

In Christlike love at all times.

If you are struggling or having a "bad day" - click here

Post Extras:


Reged: May 01 2002
Posts: 4867
Re: Bold Love by Drs. Allender and Longman [Re: Formerly G.G.]
#2831581 - Fri Oct 07 2005 06:37 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply


If I am interpreting correctly what is being said then I should not, perhaps even cannot, forgive WW until she repents and asks me to do so.

Is that what I am hearing?


Yes, that is exactly what you are hearing, at least from me.

God is the "model" of how and when to forgive. God commands us to forgive a brother in Christ IF HE REPENTS. The corollary to that is, "no repentance, no forgiveness."

To forgive without repentance is to cheapen and demean forgiveness. Christ died so that we would repent and receive forgiveness of sin. He does not forgive our sin without our first repenting, because to do so would be to "condone sin" as okay and NOT something that someone should repent of.

Christ forgave one thief but not the other. If forgiveness could be granted, and be effective, without any need for repudiating sin,why did Jesus only forgive one thief and why did Jesus have to die AT ALL to pay the "price" for sin if sin could simply be forgiven with NO CHANGED behavior being needed?

Forgiveness without repentance is "dog that won't hunt."

God bless.


Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/08/06 03:23 PM

Thanks for bumping the other thread. I will keep reading it, and let you know when I finish.

My comment on the above post, is that when Jesus asked forgiveness for the soldiers as they nailed Him to the cross, they were not repentant.

The verses referred to above make it clear that salvation can only be found after repentance. Those soldiers did not repent, at least not at that time, therefore it is reasonable to conclude that they were not saved at the time forgiveness was given on their behalf.

This limited forgiveness is not cheap, and it in no way replaces the need for full saving forgiveness, confession of sin, and being covered with the cleansing blood of Jesus. But Jesus made that request for a reason. He showed Himself willing to forgive us all, and not hold bitterness toward us for the pain we each have caused Him, and He opened a door that God was able to use in the lives of those rebellious, defiant men.

We need to offer this forgiveness for our own sakes. We do not offer it directly to those who have hurt us, we offer it to God. Reconciliation, whether between God and us, or man and us, can only take place after confession, forgiveness, and the forsaking of sin. But when we offer up to God a sweet, forgiving spirit, we receive a blessing even when no human-to-human reconciliation ever takes place.

Regardless, we all need that full divine forgiveness that only God can offer, that only comes from accepting the sacrifice of Christ, repenting, and turning away from our sins. To turn back into our sins after asking for forgiveness is to crucify Christ afresh, and put Him to open shame.

Meems, I'll let you know what I think when I finish the thread. It has been very interesting so far.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/08/06 03:49 PM
Just sticking a little post-it note here for myself, the link to my job reference thread from yesterday, in case I ever need to refer to it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/11/06 11:16 PM
I've been so busy this week, but not accomplishing ANYTHING!!!!! It drives me crazy!

Tuesday I actually had a trip to town almost exactly like the hypothetical trip I described. I had the sudden appearance of a UTI, with the most severe symptoms I have ever had with one. They got me into the dr.'s at the last second & I am on my 3rd day of antibiotics now.

By the time I got done at Wal Mart I didn't have time to go to Safeway too, even though I badly needed potatoes, but that was about the only deviation from hypothet.

AJ & I had a nice talk today, to be continued later since he had to leave for work, about the reference request, among other things. He was quite startled by the whole thing, but relieved a bit when I told him that before I do anything irrevocable I am seeking legal advice from the attorney.

Mom really liked the letter, but was worried that with so much going on already, that it wouldn't hurt to ask a lawyer if there was even a small chance of her being able to take legal recourse if, for some reason, that is information that cannot legally be disclosed on a reference. I am quite sure it is fine, but better safe than sorry I guess.

I did ask a very kind out-of-state attorney, who said he thought it would be all right to send it, (though his first recommendation was to just ignore it), but said it would be best to check with a local attorney to be sure. We are still waiting for the call, and I am not stressing about it anymore, either way.

Side note: it was funny to me to read back over my first couple of posts about that, and see that they appeared fairly calm and coherent. No visible panic, anyway. I don't do well with surprises at all, but especially that kind of surprise. But I am fine now, and can even laugh about it. One of the questions was, "Have you ever known this person to steal something?"

I'm sure we can all think up a few pithy answers to THAT one.

Eureka! I should have sent the whole package to Orchid for her to fill out, lol.

Got to go throw my bathroom rugs in the dryer (if you didn't already hear, don't ask ), and do a few things before I wear out and need a rest again.

*happy dance* I got a nap today, though. It's gonna be a great rest of the day.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/12/06 06:49 PM
Classic Dervish moment:

I just heard a little voice saying, "Hehwp, hehwp, hehwp," that's the closest I can come to a phonetic reproduction.

So I looked over and saw that Dervish DANGLING FROM THE TOP OF THE DOOR!!!!!

Being the kind, sympathetic mother I am, I told him, "You got up there, so you can get down." As of course he could all along, but wanted to get a reaction. (Fat chance.)

What next?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/19/06 09:47 PM

Gotta love those emoticons. I'm starting to feel better already.

Today is AJ's birthday, and she sent him a card. No return address and out-of-state postmark made me suspicious right off the bat, and he immediately gave it to me and told me to chuck it.

I have known? thought? felt? she would attempt C on his b-day, and had myself pretty well convinced I was ready for it. Yes, it probably would have been worse if I had not been mentally prepared.


AJ -

I hope things are going well for you.


Reading between the lines it sounds more like this, "AJ, I hope you are realizing what a mistake you made in going back to your family, and in trying to repair the shambles you and I made out of your life, but if you change your mind and decide to once again become a lying cheater, please let me know cuz I'm still here."

Ok, I had to smile a little bit rereading that, so that is good. And I did manage to kiss AJ goodbye very nicely, even standing there with the card still in my hands. (I walked him out to the car when he was ready to leave, and got the mail all at the same time.)

I still have to run to town and get him his boring present. Since I know he won't look here, I can mention that it is a pair of blue shorts that is the lower half of his uniform at his new job, and he doesn't have any yet. And since I can't afford to get him a needful present AND a fun one, I am going with needful. (Besides, I already gave him a present that was both fun and free. )

I'm starting to ramble, and I really have to go. SMACK!!! Just trying to slap myself out of it, lol. I will channel all this nervous energy into errands and cleaning. Thanks, I will be fine.

Do you know if the OP ever grows a life?

Do you know if the OP ever grows a life?

If the OP was capable of getting there own life, why would they be an OP?

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/20/06 02:31 PM
ROFL BB, that was funny. I think you hit it on the head.

One last note on this before the regularly scheduled programming resumes. The preprinted portion of the card managed to be both innocuous, and offensively about sex, all at the same time. Mom nearly choked on her Chinese food when she read it.

On the front is one of those computer-altered googly-eyed dogs that has become popular. On the inside it says, "Getting older sure beats getting neutered. Happy birthday, guy!"

There seems to be (only perhaps) a slight vindictive undercurrent. I couldn't decide whether to laugh or be offended, so I did both.

Now the card is in the garbage as it deserves, and as AJ requested it be. His exact words, in fact, were a terse "Chuck it!"

It's chucked.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/20/06 02:35 PM
His birthday was wonderful. He was delighted with the shorts, thrilled with the lemonade, and oh, I guess he liked everyone else's presents, too.

After he went back on Mom's thread to thank all the nice people who told him happy birthday, he read back a ways just for fun, laughing out loud at the tractor story ("Did Mom really say that to Dad???"), and SS's misadventure with the toilet.

He did ask why I had blabbed the story about the Dervish and snuggling Uncoe Neakbro, but I reassured him that I was positive that - even without spelling it out - that everyone would know he didn't actually snuggle my brother, and was only kidding. I don't need to spell it out, right?


He did ask why I had blabbed the story about the Dervish and snuggling Uncoe Neakbro, but I reassured him that I was positive that - even without spelling it out - that everyone would know he didn't actually snuggle my brother, and was only kidding.

Well, you certainly had me worried...until you spelled it out!

I laughed because I thought the card was saying that, as far as she was concerned, he was doggone lucky to have been allowed to grow another year older, instead of getting what he actually deserved--a quick trip to the vet to be neutered. In fact, it could've been interpreted as an offer to neuter him herself. She DID work at animal control, after all.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/20/06 03:47 PM
The other night we had another of those interesting little experiences involving adultery and TV. We made a little progress afterwards and did some talking, but by 3am had to just go to sleep and leave a lot unfinished.

He doesn't understand why I react so strongly to movies or TV, even if it's not something that 'seems' really bad, and yet can talk to friends about their similar problems and not suffer the same ill effects.

The ill effects to which he refers are not so much treating him badly, which as far as I know I never do, but a perceived coldness, when he says I am not the warm, caring person I usually am.

I tried to explain myself the best I could, but don't know if I succeeded. I said that first of all, there was a big difference in my reactions from talking about A's with someone, discussing strategy and recovery and such, vs seeing a strong visual image on TV that brought back all kinds of painful memories and imaginings.

I explained the best I could that I was not being cold to him that way, but that when it hurt me like that, I retreat to a safe distance (literally as well as figuratively) to try and pick up the pieces of myself enough to go on and not show my hurt on the outside.

It bothers him terribly when he sees that I am still wounded from this, and his immediate reaction is always, "Maybe I should just go then - you will heal faster if I'm not always around reminding you of this." And just about all the time it's easier to just handle things on my own than to try, again, to explain that I will have to go through the same garbage in the process of healing, but if he goes I will have nothing on the positive side, i.e. love and affection, to help me along. There would be nothing but me, the memories, and three messy-but-heartbroken little children. So far, that would be much worse.

We still didn't really talk much about what still bothers me and why, but by the time we were ready to fall asleep he told me that if it bothere me this much, that we needed to keep talking about it, even if it bothered him. Then he scooted over by me, saying rather apologetically that he wouldn't lie so close if I didn't want him to, but he had just gotten so used to me being there next to him. Of COURSE I didn't mind, silly him.

I can't help but feel sorry for him too, and not just me. It has to be very daunting to face the fact that you damaged the person you loved most, and damaged them so badly it will take them years to recover. In fact, at one point during this he said very sadly that he didn't think I would ever get over it.

I will never be the same, but I fully expect to get over it eventually. Someday the name Gargamel will call nothing immediate to mind, except maybe Barbie's little sister, or Dazednconfused, or the childrens' (by then former) teacher. Hey, a girl can hope!

(And yet at the same time I will always have to look over my shoulder a little bit. She is the pop-up-in-five-or-ten-years type if I ever saw it. See above reference about the OP having a life, lol. It is a little scary that she will always be out there, somewhere.)

Well, I'd better get ready for church. The natives are much farther along in their preparations than I am, and I think GP went back to bed.

Hope you all are having a super weekend!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/20/06 03:52 PM
Hmmmmm. I hadn't thought of that interpretation. I respectfully disagree, , but each person can choose the meaning they like best.

Maybe you could edit the workplace detail back out, at least in a day or two? Otherwise you will tempt me beyond bearing to blab even more, except oh wait, you just did ----- she used to work at a Pet Cemetery, bwaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. There, now we both have to edit.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/20/06 03:54 PM
PS Over time, I have found a few small advantages to being in possession of her employee file, and complete employment history. And yet I have managed to not take advantage of it. I am a good girl, yes I am.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/23/06 07:13 AM
We had another really good talk last night. Something prompted me to ask him if he was ok after getting the card, and he said he was but then proceeded to talk at length about a lot of stuff that went on during the A.

It was the kind of debriefing I had wanted right from the beginning, and was enlightening on so many levels. I learned so much that my preconceived notions didn't begin to guess at.

I will go into more detail another time if I am able, but the basic gist of it was that all that time I was trying to be the best that I could be (i.e. outdo her in everything), she was trying to outdo me as well, far more directly than I knew.

She would want to do something for him, and he would say, "My wife always does that for me." So she would say that she could do it better, and get rather bent out of shape when he still wanted me to do it instead. This would be mundane, everyday things, as well as the more, um, creative things some of you might be imagining. She did not like coming up short in the reckoning, even when it happened numerous times. Especially when it happened numerous times.

She did not know we were still having sex until part-way along. I had known, and mentioned here before, that she asked if we were still sleeping in the same bed, and was quite miffed that we were. But apparently the discussion about our sex life did not come up for several more weeks. Naturally she was very angry to find out that we weren't behaving "the way separated people are supposed to act", and his reply? "Of course I'm having sex with her. She's my WIFE!"

Also, toward the end he told her that doing anything sexual with her had been a mistake. Which probably stuck in her craw a bit, too. Truth hurts.

It was just so weird to get a glimpse into how it was, and how almost everything was about me. As well it should have been.

It was far from the lusty Utopia I had pictured.

It was far from the lusty Utopia I had pictured.

Yep..for me too!

Especially during the Plan B time frame....
It's really fun to see your attitude change. Maybe it's not so much your attitude, as it is that you are not bothered by things that used to bother you. It used to feel like you were living in the midst of he11, but now it feels like you are looking at it from a distance and not personally involved.

From here it looks like you feel much better, and I sincerely hope so. Been hoping for that for a long time.

Hard not to think about the A as being great fun, full of
excitement and 24 hr sex, but when I think of WH's "typical"
nighttime routine (watching TV in bed, falling asleep soon
after taking bipolar meds, sleeping hard and snoring) it
makes me wonder.
Then again, maybe that was just with me (we had no SF for
for months before the A started due to WH "not being in the
mood", "tired", "congested", or having trouble with his
"performance" )
When I talked to OW back in October it sounded like that was their prime activity complete with "costumes" (for her) and according to the photos she sent me later, SF outdoors and in public places.(these are not pretty pictures) and
since OW even got pregnant, WH must have overcome his

I like the description "lusty utopia". Would like to go there myself...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/24/06 06:46 PM
Bothered considerably less, anyway, and I'll settle for that for now.

Slammed, it says something about her that she has to utilize so many costumes and wild locations to keep his attention off of you. I mean, the occasional dress-up or impromtu might be fun to spice things up, but if you do too much of it, even the most creative stunts will become boring after time.

A child can be entertained by the circus for a while, but after so many days they will start to pick their nose when the clowns come out.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 05/28/06 01:48 AM
Another funny/interesting thing from the conversation was the vastly differing ideas of housing situations. Some I knew, some I did not.

Her idea: You can come move in with ME!

His idea: No, I will just rent my own house.

Her idea: Is it my ex-boyfriend and his pregnant girlfriend? I'll ask them to move out.

His idea: No, I will just rent my own house.

Her idea: How nice! I will pay your deposits and first few months of rent today, and then just move in with you.

His idea: No, I will pay my own rent. Plus, you can't live with me because I want my wife and children to be able to come over any time they want, and be comfortable.

Her idea: *steam begins leaching from her ears* I must be patient for a while. Surely he will get over her eventually...

It really makes me happy to get a glimpse of how hard she tried to be me, and it still wasn't good enough. Not that I have never in all this been tempted to feel like last week's leftovers, but that is something I seem to be past. I am well aware of my own worth (hopefully not too aware ), and she knew it too, far better than he did at the time.

Another thing that was very nice, and shows progress on his part, was when he told me that she fully blames me for the business failing - that I wasn't billing properly or managing it properly.

I very gently said that I billed promptly, always within a day or two of the completion of each week, and that had nothing to do with it. Even more gently, I said that on more than one occasion, the VP and I had both expressed our concerns to him about the growing unpaid debt by our main client, but that he had been too wrapped up in his own concerns to really listen to us.

And - for the first time ever - there were no excuses, no attempts to cast blame back on us, nothing about how it hadn't been his fault at all, it was just, "I know."


So of course I did the big thing and dropped the subject, not even trying to rub it in a little, or ask him to repeat himself several times.

Small alien update: I saw her again Thursday, when I went for my doctor's appointment. I expected to see her, parked in front of her house as I zoomed past, but no, she was headed down the direction I had just come from.

All I had to do was go in a cup and I was on my way back home again. AJ was reassuringly green when I said she was headed down the hill, and I had no idea where she was now, so he had better be careful since he was leaving right then for work. Poor guy, the way of the transgressor is hard, long after the transgressions are over.

Her way can't be that easy, either. If she saw me, and I drove across right in front of her, she had to have wondered why I was going up by her house. And her lonely birthday yesterday (with Al K. Hall as her only companion) couldn't have been that much fun, as well.

I'm not perfectly noble. Though I feel a few twinges of sympathy, mostly I'm just hugely delighted that she was alone, and that my husband is mine again.

As much as I wouldn't want my kids to have been around her, I would love to see what the two of them looked like after having the Dervish for a couple of days. I ought to bottle him as an anti-affair unguent, free to all.

If SS was like him, I would like to talk to his mother and find out how she did it, but she probably can't string whole sentences together anymore. I barely can now, and I've only had him (the Dervish, not SS) for 5 years.

Well, it's time to serve el suppero. We are having teriyaki oven BBQ-d potatoes w/onion and similarly BBQ-d veggie steaks. Mmmmmmmmmmm.

Sorry, Mom, I just looked at the clock and saw that it's too late for you to come for supper, unless you're off tonight. Well, you're invited anyway, even if you can't make it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/02/06 07:37 AM
This will probably have to be several segments. A lot has happened, and it's bound to be long.

It still all starts with that one conversation, and even when this epic is done, that wasn't all that we talked about.

You see, it's this way. In the course of talking, AJ remembered to tell me that at one point Gargamel brought him a cashier's check for $100,000 that was from the refinance of her house. He said she took out around $300,000 and took the c-check out of that. She gave it to him in an envelope, and he thought it was a small amount of money for something else, and ended up carrying it around for a couple of days before opening it. He called her up, saying that he couldn't possibly take it. For some reason she really wanted him to take it, and finally she said she would just put it into the bank for him. He lied to her *gasp* and said that I had made the corporate bank account so that only I could deposit funds.

So that was all very interesting (and there were some details he didn't even remember until we talked about it again today), but with one little problem. She had been whining about the possibility of me screwing up her refinancing as late as mid-July of last year, so it was still in process then, and it was almost the end of August before she told me that she had transferred the corporate debt into a low-interest account, which I assumed was connected to the refinance.

Since NC was supposed to have started on June 27, that didn't look too hot for ol' AJ. It was rather dismaying to think of him hanging out and refusing large sums of money several months into NC.

Thank you to those of you who chatted with me about this. It took a couple of days to make it to the county recorder's office, but imagine my surprise when I found out that there had been no refinance! So right off the bat I knew that the money must have come from somewhere else, and that it could have been at any time, not necessarily during NC.

After much examination and advice, I believed that even if this had happened during NC, that there was no ongoing contact. People who have talked to him about this recently said he did not seem foggy at all. That alone went a long way toward restoring my damaged faith in my instincts.

So I talked to him today again, to see if he had any blanks he could fill in, and to let him know that he had at the very least been misled, if not outright lied to.

Why I ended talking to him about it at that particular moment is a whole extra story!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/02/06 08:18 AM
Normally I would not bring up a potentially upsetting subject like that unless it was an emergency, as I have found AJ to be most receptive when he is not a) just about to go to work b) at work or c) just getting back from work. How many men are? I usually try to talk to him on his second day in a row off work, and at a time where he is doing nothing and in no hurry.

So I had no thought of bringing up the above topic while he was driving home on his 1 1/2 hour commute after working all night. Very poor form.

He thought he was working tonight, and I thought he wasn't, so I opened his Yahoo calendar to see who was right. I was, of course, but I was not at all expecting to see his calendar all month long filled up with reminders to watch pornos. There were two different reminders, one repeating itself every other day into infinity, and the other repeating itself every third day into infinity.

AJ's calendar is set up so that only his friends can view it, and only he and I can modify it. He has exactly four friends set up: me, Mom, Neaksis, and Neakbro.

He checked and rechecked all his settings, and finally discovered that he had somehow become a member of a Yahoo group, one with, um, adult content.

Unless somebody knows of a back door way of doing this, the only apparent way of joining the group is to sign into Yahoo with your user name and password, then choose the option to join. As far as I know there is not any way of them joining people up without their consent, since they have to be signed in.

With it looking very much as if his email account had once again been compromised, AJ played it safe and changed his password, and I changed mine, too.

But as long as we were on the subject, I brought up the c-check and non-refinancing. At first he didn't remember when it was, but reaffirming that it was before the first break-up, but then he remembered that it was while she was trying to get him to fly to Hawaii with her for their birthdays. She had already bought the tickets well in advance, but he (for some reason) didn't think he could come up with a good enough reason so that I wouldn't know, and he wouldn't go on the trip.

So his estimate of when this all occurred was in April, because of course an efficient person like her would order the tickets far enough in advance to get the best rates.

He lied to her about a number of things connected to that whole episode, anything to keep from being pushed into a direction he had no intention of going. The most mind-boggling thing is that she believed everything, no matter how far-fetched, e.g. that even as the president of the corporation he did not own any stock that he could sell her, and so on. I told him I understood that, because once you're in that situation, you will say just about anything to keep from having to do something so uncomfortable.

So it was interesting.

Oh, change of subject, but I had no idea until tonight that my great-aunt had lost a full-term baby when the doctor failed to perform a C-section when it became obvious that the baby was large and not able to finish its descent, so the poor little boy was born over 2 hours after he died.

It is weird to think of my o-l-d aunt having a baby in heaven just like me. Except she won't be old anymore, which is weird, too.

She can't hold babies any more, either, so it's not just me. If we ever had another I'm sure I'd get over that little quirk, but hopefully that will not be an issue.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/05/06 04:38 AM
We had another lovely sharing time today as he was driving home from work. (I forgot to mention that in the same time frame as the porn invites taking over his whole calendar, one of the times he logged on, all his emails had been opened, just like the last time except there was no change to the blocked addresses.) There was more that he remembered from recently.

In the last little while, there was a day when our mail was apparently tampered with. He looked out the window and saw the mail lady just driving on to the next house from ours. A couple minutes later he went out to get our mail and there was nothing there. For whatever reason, he went back and checked it later that afternoon, and there it was as if it had been there all the time.

We had talked about the possibility of this before, but never so specifically; that he thinks that on many occasions she has parked on the hill above our house and conducted surveillance. He said that on numerous days he has seen different cars sitting up there for long periods of time. It is a small cul de sac, with only one house on it, close to the main road, and the cars were all the way at the end of the loop, where there are no houses or anything.

So the drama is not over even yet, and I have to wonder just what she's planning if all this stuff is still happening. On the one hand it stirs up resentment again, because if he hadn't made the choices he did I wouldn't still be in this position, but on the other hand it is more of a relief than I thought it would be to talk about some of this with him, and so ultimately it is serving to bring us closer to each other. Which I doubt is her intent.

(I have not forgotten that there is a great deal yet to say on the subject of resentment.)

So even if I am being dragged back a little, it will be good in the long run. I am just trying to walk the fine line between not obssessing over what she is/might be doing, and thinking about it enough to make sure that there are no obvious weaknesses for her to easily exploit.

The email thing is bothersome. The same song keeps running through my head. Grow a life!

Last night I had a funny dream. I was on a cruise ship that left the ocean and headed up a river. Suddenly we found ourselves in a small lake. Our momentum had carried us over a waterfall, only about 5-7 feet high, so we weren't destroyed, but high enough so we couldn't sail back the way we came.

Then I saw up ahead that where the river fed into the lake was about to break and flood, and somehow I knew that the resulting wave would be too steep for the ship to climb, and it would founder. So....we (almost) all climbed up the steep hill by the lake and took shelter as high as we could go. I woke up before the wave hit, when we were being besieged by black widows and other creepy crawlies, smashing them right and left. We had every expectation of surviving, though I'm not sure what we would have done about the influx of spiders fleeing the rising waters.

Most of my dreams would make excellent B movies. (Maybe even D- .)

The Toad Whisperer is almost asleep, hugging his stuffed duck. He has had a long day, and I'm not surprised he is tired. Any ten men would be exhausted after dividing up his daily activities amongst themselves. (As in, just the dividing would exhaust them; the activities themselves would probably result in injury or death.)

AJ took me "in" to dinner tonight, bringing me food home with him from work. We went and sat in the bedroom to eat together, briefly pretending that there were no children around. It was very sweet, and I would reward him appropriately if only he hadn't long since fallen asleep after being up all night and all day.

Sweet dreams, all.
Even I, one not inclined to cut AJ any unnecessary slack (), can imagine him being dumb enough to set up a bunch of reminders for himself to watch porn not even one week after he sets things up so I can get into his schedule any time I choose, just to see what he's got planned. There's insanity, and there's a death wish. I think he knows the difference!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/05/06 08:31 PM
That level of stupidity would boggle my mind. "Hey Mom, wanna watch Raven from Las Vegas with me? I have it scheduled every second and third days from now to forever, and I was hoping you would join me. Can you bring some popcorn?"

You're right - just about any explanation in the world, including those that contain alien laser email scrambling beams, are more likely.

Last night I dreamed I was beginning an EA, and I'm sure this came from thinking about the other thread on that subject.

An all-male music group came to visit at the church, and I got to chatting with them. They knew I was married, although AJ was not there that day. One in particular was very friendly, and very touchy. He was so sweet, and I felt so happy and so alive. Briefly I compared that to the more solid, but less exciting feelings I had toward my husband, before deciding to just not think about him (AJ) any more.

Mom tried to tell me that she was concerned, but I said, "Oh, he's just being friendly." It made me uncomfortable enough that I thought maybe I should tell him that I was not a touchy person, and to back off a bit, but kind of just shrugged, guessing it wasn't so bad after all.

It was very eerie to have a switch just flip, and suddenly not care any more.

The first few moments of waking up and transitioning back into reality were also pretty strange. No musician, no EA, just a snoring husband rubbing my feet with his while he slept. What a relief! I cannot imagine how awful it would be to have that kind of deceptive fantasy, and then you wake up and it's still there. You go through the day, and it's still there. You crawl into bed at night, and it's right there next to you and inside you, filthy and obscene. And no matter how many times you wake up wishing, it's never a dream.

Ah well, enough philosophizing for the moment - my math students are getting restless.
The Toad Whisperer is almost asleep, hugging his stuffed duck. He has had a long day, and I'm not surprised he is tired. Any ten men would be exhausted after dividing up his daily activities amongst themselves. (As in, just the dividing would exhaust them; the activities themselves would probably result in injury or death.)

I wonder what he dreams of......... chuckle, chuckle.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/07/06 03:56 PM
I admit it, I chuckled a little too, till I really thought of what he might be dreaming of. That is too scary for words.

Lately he has expanded his sphere of interest to include frasshoppers and frickets, as well.

Lately he has expanded his sphere of interest to include frasshoppers and frickets, as well.

He should keep them away from the lizzards if he wants them to stay around very long.
If you don't want the bugs around, you can encourage him to let a lizzard play with them.

I know they are a handful (kids in general) but the Savior said "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdon of heaven."

I have to agree - and am glad we get to spend time with them. We spent Monday evening at the lake with 4 out of 5 of our grand kids, and it was a good thing.

I hope the others are doing well - and you also. Tell Neaksis we hope hers are well too.

I keep wondering what your brothers are thinking...... family is where it's at.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/07/06 11:25 PM
They don't know what they're missing! How wonderful that you got the chance to spend time with your GK's.

I always liked that quote of Jesus', but lately it has been hard to remember that He meant the other kind of suffer. (I am kidding, mostly. I will be almost all kidding once I get well so I am not trying to harangue the troops from a prone position. It does not work well.)

We have one lizard here that I see on a regular basis. After almost a year, it is much larger, and nearly half its tail has grown back. The hundreds of toads are helpful with bug control.

Neaksis may be yielding her foster child today, that is the sudden, last-minute plan, anyway. She will not be crushed, as there has been extreme tension between the foster child and her own 3 from the beginning. (Tension would be described as her children yelling "I HATE [FOSTER CHILD]" right in front of the foster child, and said foster child lying and manipulating to try and get the other 3 in trouble as revenge for the mean things they were saying about her.) Truly, Neaksis is not sorry to leave that battleground behind. She wants a nice, happy, speechless, cooing baby. Twins, if possible.

Just heard from her as I was typing this, and the departure is definitely scheduled for immediately. She won't have a chance to talk to the social worker till tomorrow to be sure, but she doesn't think whatever emergency had to do with her.

She is having to send off her foster child with no changes of clothes, and absolutely covered with paint, as they have been working on the church interior all day. The other bad thing is the poor kid is having no warning at all. Neaksis' social worker is seriously cranky about this.

Oh, I am close to half-way through a cute little love story for Amazon shorts. It's about this prostitute that falls in love and wants to get married. Sound like a winner?

(Her name is Rahab. )

and nearly half its tail has grown back.

Dare one ask why it only had part of a tail? Did someone have an unfortunate encounter with the Dervish, perhaps?

Foster child is gone. Good object lesson for adoptees, who sometimes complain that they want to be foster children and not have to obey the rules. One second you're there, and the next, POOF! you're gone.

We have many types of geckos (sp?) here and they often drop their tails to escape any kind of danger. The tail remains 'alive' for quite a while and continues wiggling around. I'm sure the Dervish has 'sussed' this situation. Those cute little tails are so entertaining - what little boy could resist?
Posted By: starz Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/08/06 12:28 AM
You need a motion-sensor camera pointed at your mailbox. Tampering with the US mail is a FEDERAL offense. you will be rid of her for a long long long time.

Radio shack sells one you can hook up to a VCR.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/08/06 01:12 AM
I have a strong suspicion about the lizard, but was never able to prove anything one way or the other, lol.

The adoptees need a good lesson like that. They have, indeed, expressed sentiments very much like that, on more than one occasion.

They will get another very good lesson, too. Now that they have their wish, and she is gone, there are going to be some very painful statements like "I'm sorry, but we can't do that fun thing after all, because now that we have no foster children, there just isn't any extra money after paying the bills."

Life's little lessons...

Of course she won't get it, but if Neaksis ends up home schooling her daughter next year, she will certainly deserve a raise!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/08/06 01:14 AM
We have a camera mounted on the garage, it will just be a matter of hooking the little tv back up to it, and aiming it just a little higher.

It would certainly be convenient to have her in federal prison, but what are the chances she would be that stupid twice? Well........

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/08/06 01:16 AM
TT, our bluebellied lizards do the same thing as your geckos, and the most amazing thing is that I have only seen ONE with its nether end docked.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/15/06 09:04 PM
I am sick to my stomach again. (It probably wouldn't have been as bad without the mouse, lol. That smell just stuck to my poor nostrils!)

I'll be ok, it's just one more attempt to make trouble, but I'm so tired of this.

I just logged onto my bank account to make sure nothing bad had happened to it, since I haven't used it for a while. I was horribly shocked to see that I have $112 in there, instead of the $3 I expected.

I was even more shocked to find out that it was because they had redeposited the final payment to Gargamel, even though at the time a customer service rep said that it had been cashed. Apparently they were mistaken.


Sigh, sigh, sigh.

What petty, juvenile game-playing! Does she think this will force me into contact?

I think I will either just reissue the check, or get her Golden 1 account # from Mom and just deposit it.

What can she possibly hope to accomplish by this? It is all so stupid.

I have to run to town to pay the internet and get dog food. I am so mad - I thought this part was over and done with. Give me a few hours and I'll be better.

{This might be a good time to comment to Mimi, that after you said you were still trying to think of non-lethal revenge, I thought of a great one! Put poison oak on her car door handle (one of my friends thought the toilet seat would be even better, attacking the scene of the crime and all). They would never know what hit 'em, lol. I just keep telling myself I'm better than that. }

Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/16/06 01:22 AM
AJ took it well, but he usually does - just a and life goes on for him.

Neaksis said I should just keep it, since she gave it to me. AJ liked my idea of skipping the rigamarole and sticking it straight into account.

Sunday we all went up into the mountains for a BBQ (veggie, of course), and most of it was lots of fun. It was really nice to get away and not think about anything bad at all for several hours. But on the way back, he kept seeing places where he had been as part of his A-starting job, and remembering (& sharing) the experiences.

It bothered me quite a bit to be reminded of that time, and it was hard to fight the urges to pick up the BBQ implements and beat him with them, but I didn't say anything. BECAUSE...even though it is uncomfortable for me, it is soooo good to have him relaxed and chatting freely, and obviously not being triggered himself. I don't want him having to walk on eggshells, and count every word before he says it.

If it were so bad I couldn't stand it, I would have to tell him, but you know, there are just some triggers you have to plow through and get over. (Sex would be another.) I will not let his A rule every aspect of my life from now on.

Sometimes it's easier than others. Last week on the way home from church, I called his cousin-in-law, who is one of Mom's patients. The poor thing came in for premature labor, they got it stopped, and now she's bedridden from now until ?. (She just passed 24 weeks.) Anyhoo, the nurse that answered was one of the ones that took care of me when Dillon was born, and her name is also Gargamel.

She put me on hold to see if CIL was awake, and another nurse came on. I said one of the other nurses was checking for me. AJ said, "Why didn't you just tell her it was Gargamel?"

Hearing that name from his lips, and questioning me why I didn't say it, it's a wonder I didn't claw his eyes out right then. If I hadn't forgotten the whole thing until now, that would definitely have been something I would have talked to him, once I could speak again. My mental processes remind me of the scene in Galaxy Quest. "Hi little guys, oh, they're so cute!" "RRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRR!!!!!!!!"

Time to go get ready to party. Mom had to call in sick, so Neaksis and I are going to take care of her. While we watch a movie.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/16/06 05:15 AM
Mom had a very good point about that check. Once she reminded me, I remembered that the customer svc rep I spoke with said there was no expiration date on any of their checks, that they would be good indefinitely.

So Mom thinks she took it back to the bank herself.

I already put in an inquiry, and should hear back from them in only the next 3-7 business days.

Anyhoo, the nurse that answered was one of the ones that took care of me when Dillon was born, and her name is also Gargamel.

Well, I'm sorry. At that point I didn't realize how name-sensitive you were, and I just chose the one I thought would give you the best and most attention in what was bound to be a difficult time...although I had no idea it was going to be short short or so intense. And she WAS very nice to you. Don't hold her unfortunate name against her. Besides, what kind of weird parents name their kid, "Gargamel"?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/16/06 03:09 PM
Don't feel bad. I just thought of her as "Nurse [Whatever-her-last-name-is]". Or even just "The Nurse".

It was, however, a bit of a shock to call up your work and hear, "OB, Gargamel speaking." My mind briefly spun, before realizing that the lack of accent eliminated the other G.

It was still less traumatic than having the kids' teacher call up once a month, ringing in on our unlisted number and chirping, "Hi, this is Gargamel!"

There are Gargamels everywhere. There is even a boy-Gargamel on the news. Don't know when, don't know how, but someday I'm going to have to get used to it.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/22/06 12:12 AM
Not going to do a long rant, not not not.

But I think part of my problem may be the 1yr skids. I am trying not to let it affect me too much, not that it works that great, and it hasn't been helping that he has been shifting his schedule around the clock. Keeping in mind an almost 2-hr 1-way commute, his start times vary with no pattern from 3am to 6am to 7am to 3pm to 11pm, and he has been bouncing back and forth and back and forth. So he has been really grumpy, and hasn't even remembered any of the nice things that I have done.

Yesterday morning:
Him (angrily): Well, when was the last time you even bothered to cook dinner???
Me: Last night.
Him: Oh yeah, well what did we have?
Me: Veggie burgers, made from scratch.
Him: Oh, wow - two burgers and some chips. ANYBODY could have done that!
Me: *silently* (gutteral growl) And how many people would have served you personally in your room, JUST LIKE ALWAYS??????? *aloud* I'm so sorry you didn't like that. It has always been a special treat for the rest of us, and I had no idea you didn't feel the same way. Besides, you have told me you want to lose weight, and asked that I prepare lighter meals to help you with that.
Him: Oh yeah? Well what about the night before that?
Me: That was the night you asked me to make those marinated and baked potato cubes with vegetable steaks. I asked, but you didn't want anything else.
Him: What about the night before that?
Me: That was the night you turned down the plate I brought you, containing Spanish rice, enchiladas, potato salad, corn, and garlic bread. You said your stomach was bothering you.

To his credit, he said he realized he had been mistaken, and must have been too tired to remember all this. It was the turning point of the day, and everything improved after that.

(That was far from the only issue - we each had things we were unhappy about, and rightfully so.)

So I started trying to channel my I-want-a-divorce thoughts into the slightly more neutral "No-wonder-more-than-half-of-people-with-sleep-apnea-get-divorced."

And even though I was still very cranky, he tried hard to make up for it with a nice lotion massage and other thoughtful attentions after the children went to bed.

I was so not in the mood for any of it, but I rubbed his feet and back with lotion, too, participated in the extracurricular activities with as much enthusiasm as I could muster, considering I was still a grouch and very tired from working too hard during the day.

All night long he kept me pinned right against him so I couldn't even scoot the the edge of the bed and pout after he went to sleep.

By today I have downgraded to lightly peeved, and won't even try to get away from him tonight. He is much better today too, after two nights in a row of sleep. (I'm so glad Mom is not thusly afflicted. She is just the same no matter how much or how little sleep she's had.)

Time to go start supper. He said again yesterday that he wants to eat lighter again so he can lose weight.

I think I'm going to start keeping a written log.
Speaking of dinner, I have yet to figure out how the OW magically had dinner hot and waiting when he walked in the door?

Did this really happen or was it a figment of his imagination a.k.a. foggy brain?

I have this image of her running to the microwave when he called saying that he was entering her neighborhood...

Oh my...

Men and their stomachs attached to their hearts...
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/22/06 12:29 AM
I have the feeling they ate out a lot.

(I'm so glad Mom is not thusly afflicted. She is just the same no matter how much or how little sleep she's had.)

I'm not sure that came out as quite the compliment I hope you intended!

And he could lose an easy 25 pounds just by ditching the attitude!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/22/06 12:44 AM
If I were honest, I would admit I had an attitude, too. (Not a good one.) I had simply managed to get my 'baditude' back under control before the aforementioned conversation.

Notice I do not transcribe any of that, but do admit to it.

If I were honest, I would admit I had an attitude, too. (Not a good one.)

Yabbut... Yabbut... There's a difference between his baditudes and yours. Since you put it out in the open I'm not going to pretend like you never get snarky with him. Certainly less snarky with him, however, than any normal human woman I've ever heard of, or known, would be able to do--and that includes your sister, and it includes me. If you had a "baditude," and said something you shouldn't have, it was because he had one first and pushed your buttons until he finally found one that "worked." When he has a baditude, he can work it/them up all on his own, and push his own buttons, too! I salute your patience. But I salute it from the other side of the lake, where Chief Grumpy is safe from my interference, my temptation to express my opinions directly, and my honking big club!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/22/06 04:05 PM
Ah yes, the difference between men and women...

Ah, yes, the difference between vague generalizations, and pithy specificity.

t&l, the Pithed, and the Pithy

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/22/06 10:27 PM
For the Record: Mom is the same, wonderful, fuzzy, joy-bubbling, cheer-oozing person, no matter how much or how little sleep she has had. In case I wasn't specific enough before.

Well, I am a happy camper today. Last night AJ told me that he had grown concerned that a woman at work was becoming 'too friendly', and that he had spoken to her, and as tactfully as possible reminded her that he was married and told her to keep everything on a professional level.

In some ways, she reminds me a great deal of Gargamel(but a little older), meaning that she seems unable to have appropriate relationships with men.

She started back to work after a suspension for some very inappropriate behavior on-the-job and apparently tried to talk to AJ quite a bit, hoping for a sympathetic ear. He began to grow concerned over the last little bit when it seemed like she was singling him out for conversation, and also paging for him to come to her work area on official business, pretty flimsy business maybe, but not across any lines.

Then the other day she called to see if he was going to be at work, and when he showed up she was all dolled up and still trying to talk to him. I was pleased that he had been observing the situation from the beginning, and that when she did that, he realized it was time to say something and put some extra distance there.

He also turned down her kind offer to let him stay at her place any time he needed somewhere to spend the night. He told her it wouldn't look right, since he was a married man.


Then he told me, which earned even more bonus points. (Ok, if you're being technical, he wouldn't have earned any points at all if he hadn't told me, since I wouldn't have known to give him any.)

So here we had a situation so much like the other: a reasonably attractive older woman from work, in distress because of the actions of an XBF, seeking sympathy and a knight in shining armor, trying to incorporate herself into AJ's time and life, trying to stir those manly impulses to rescue damsels in distress, undisturbed by the fact that he is married, but the difference is this time he did the right thing.

It doesn't make up for what he did the last time, but it makes me feel more comfortable about the future.

I had forgotten all this till just now, or I would have said something earlier this morning, but thinking about it makes me happy enough that I might actually stop cooking massive buffet-style meals (I have come to think of them as sarcas-meals), and cook more normally again.

Plus I am piling up too many dishes to wash.

*smack* So Self, stop pouting already and be thankful.

Given a few more weeks, I may even lose the urge to clobber him for the burger comment.

(Countdown: 5 more days...)

For the Record: Mom is the same, wonderful, fuzzy, joy-bubbling, cheer-oozing person, no matter how much or how little sleep she has had. In case I wasn't specific enough before.

Now she is being sarcastic. And I didn't even get a buffet-style special meal for it, either!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 06/23/06 12:34 AM
Ok, so maybe there was a little sarcasm by the 'cheer-oozing' part, but you can still have a buffet-style meal.

Ok, so maybe there was a little sarcasm by the 'cheer-oozing' part,

Oddly enough, it was the "joy-bubbling" that I thought was a bit over-the-top, since when I'm too tired I can't bubble anything before 212 degrees F. Hm-m-m-m-m-m. I was more insulted than I realized.

Good thing you have leftovers.

Posted By: Neak ONE YEAR OF RECOVERY - 06/27/06 06:53 PM
Well, here is the much dreaded, much anticipated one year mark.

It has been neither stupendously wonderful, or terribly awful. (Ok, so it would have been a lot better if Neaksis and I were not having to deal with the aftermath of the fistfight at our Vacation Bible School last night. Other than that it's been fine... )

AJ has been very helpful and supportive with planning, and deciding how to handle this, even though he will have to be at work when it all goes down. So even the annoying part has given us a chance to work together, which is always nice.

No time to muse at this moment, which says a lot right there. But for the shorthand version, we are doing really well, my self-spawned discontent is subsiding, and I am even thinking that our anniversary will not be as horrible as I thought. It certainly won't be the deeply moving remembrance of sacred vows that it once was, but I don't think it will be the huge trigger I was expecting, either.

Oh, one last little note. Last night I found out from the bank that the cashier's check had simply expired. So when I get a round tuit I will just stick it in her account and be done with it. (Bwaaa, I just love the sound of that. )

Well, must dash. Even if I don't end up with any time to introspect, it is still important to me to mark this milestone.

Hooray for us! We are making it!

And thank you again to all my friends who helped make this possible.
Posted By: Neak Re: ONE YEAR OF RECOVERY - 06/28/06 06:05 AM
The good news is there were no more fisticuffs at VBS tonight.

The bad news is the Dervish is still awake....again.

He did fall asleep before we got home, but the divas got into a squabble, Val yelled, and my poor exhausted troublemaker woke up.

Boy, am I tired!
Posted By: still seeking Re: ONE YEAR OF RECOVERY - 06/28/06 03:52 PM
Hi Neak.

I tend to analyze, theorize, and talk a lot.

Maybe I'll just talk a lot, but not the other two.

It's interresting to read your posts. I read much more than I reply. Sometimes I am between phone calls at work and can't take time, sometimes I just don't know what to say.

The fight part prompted a laugh from me. Now becasue of what was happening to you - it brought back memories of my years of working with boys in the Boy Scout organization. Memories........

I hope you get the rest you need. It is so difficult to come by when you are a mother with small children.

Perhaps that never changes T&L?

Neak, God loves you and cares about you.
That is a wonderful thing.

Posted By: Neak Re: ONE YEAR OF RECOVERY - 06/28/06 05:38 PM
Thanks for the reminder, SS.

Fighting children - whoop 'em all, lol!

The Dervish slept in until after 9, when I had him awakened. Wow.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 07/06/06 04:33 PM
We had such a nice 4th of July that it's taken me this long to have a moment to write about it.

We went with a bunch of other people from church to our friends' house, swam, played, lit fireworks, and ate. AJ brought the BBQer and BBQd corn and veggie dogs/burgers for everyone.

The grand finale of the fireworks contained 100 mortar-style rockets that were supposed to be legal, but I suspect probably fell a little outside the "safe and sane: category. Somewhere around #75, AJ and I, standing by the pool, saw a tiny figure break away from the children and run frantically toward the house.

Once the Dervish saw that we were doubled over laughing at him, he started laughing, too, and pretended to have been so overcome with excitement that he just had to race at top speed to share it with us.

I have never seen one little boy, even that little boy, eat as much watermelon in one night, as he did then. We had to stop and get oil for the car on the way home, and he woke up screaming and clutching him um self, so I had to carry him in to use the restroom in the middle of the night.

Little did I know that Neaksis was having to stop to allow her middle child to heave the remains of her gluttonous feast beside the road. By morning, her oldest would be sick, and by mid-morning, the youngest.

My princess woke up very very early in the morning to vomit, and when I got up, she was still wedged in beside the toilet with her blankie and pillow. Mr. Computer soon followed suit.

AJ and the Dervish still haven't gotten sick. That is why AJ took the Dervish camping last night (as had been planned for everyone), and I got to stay home with the barfing banshees. "BUT MOMMY, I HAVEN'T THROWN UP IN A LONG TIME! NOT SINCE 1 O'CLOCK!!!!!"

So I have the next couple days to myself, relatively speaking, in which I might actually get the house cleaned up, if I don't get sick, too.

I don't think I am going to have any breakfast.
Of course I have no idea what caused the illness in your family - but my W had it last week, and I had it yesterday. Not as bad for me, I was able to work, but I wished I was home in bed.

Today I'm feeling much better. I didn't eat yesterday, but today I am humgry again. Breakfast was a southwest omlette - and some sour cream/lemon pie. Mmmmm, some things go so well together.

NSYN- I don't think I've ever posted to your thread before,but I wanted to let you know I just finished reading your entire story. First, let me commend you, your family, and your FWH in all your efforts towards recovery.

Also, thank you for being such an excellent narrator. Had you been blessed with my skills in writing, I'm certain I would not have made it past page 6, even if the content was the same.

Your heroic efforts to save your marriage are remarkable. From the sound of it, your family and your faith have given you that strength, so I guess you are all very fortunate.

I also have a dervish, so I particularly enjoyed the passages with him--although I've never had to sleep across a motel door to keep dervish at bay. He'd find way too many things in the room to keep him occupied to ever think about leaving!

Congrats on reaching your milestone. Sounds like an event-filled 4th of July, too. Doesn't sound so much like gluttony as a good dose of run-of-the-mill food poisoning! So sorry!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 07/06/06 11:43 PM
SS - Mmmmmm. Pie.

Ima - Thank you, we each have our talents, you know. One of life's lessons is learning to accept what we do well, as well as what we don't. When I was younger I wanted to do everything in the whole wide world, and do it better than everyone else. MUCH better than everyone else.

But as I went on, life forced me to see that while I did some things very well, like writing and music, other things I just would never be able to do well, like speaking other languages, police telecommunicator - one of my biggest job flops every, or housecleaning . Not that I completely give up trying, especially on the housecleaning , but I do not consider myself defined by either my successes or failures, the way I used to be.

Random musing here.....and gradually I am reaching the place where I am not completely defined by my H's affair, either. In fact, on the 4th, I went around 5 hours without any A-stuff even crossing my mind. I was much closer to who I am than I have been for a long time.

What you said about family and faith giving me strength is very true, but it also made me wonder about you. I don't want to be pushy or anything, but if you want to talk about your faith, or your struggles with faith, please do.

The Dervish called me at 5-something this morning, after I had been up past midnight getting him ready to go. I have no clue what he said, since I was still 95% asleep, but he must have been having a fun time. AJ is going to keep a life jacket on him, and tie him to the dredge while they are working. Such a fun mental picture!

The disease wasn't food poisoning. Neaksis got sick Sunday or Monday, and the rest of the kids got sick 24-36 hours later; a nice viral incubation time. I only meant that Val's gluttony contributed to the spectacularness of her downfall, not that it actually caused it. (That's ok, I just wasn't clear the first time around. )

Neaksis had to confiscate some of her food, because she was walking off with enough BBQ, potato salad, fruit salad, watermelon, etc. etc. etc., to feed several battalions. Had she not done that, the trip home would have been even worse. Blech.

Ooooooooh, I am being so lazy today! No husband, no Dervish, an army of dimiunutive slaves doing housework for me as they try and earn a treat from Neaksis' trip to town....I have almost nothing to do but eat bon-bons and fold some laundry. And maybe wash a few dishes. What fun! I have not had such a relaxing break in quite a while, at least not at home.

Oh, one last little funny: this morning, Mr. Computer was lecturing his cousins about a "lavatory where they make tornados". Bwaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, but I don't think that little project is going to make it to the Discovery Channel.
You sent the Dervish gold dredging? Oh. My. Word. Won't Daddy and Uncle Neakbro be having fun?!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/01/06 12:54 AM
I still can't take too much time to post, as my editing is dragging on, and I really really oughta have it sent by tomorrow sometime, but I will 'splode if I don't start musing soon.

First piece of news, AJ completed an EN questionaire for me. Now I suppose it's time for me to do one, too, here in the near future. That alone is worth mulling over for a while, but I'll just have to stick with the cliff notes version of my life for now.

I saw the Gargmobile again in town the other day, which is probably why I dreamed of her quite extensively that night. Three days out the shadow is less, but I still think of her more often than I would like.

A couple little things that AJ did continue to reassure me of NC. Not that there were any recent doubts, but I always look for signs one way or the other.

Friday we were in town, driving down a major street, when we started to come up behind a Gargmobile going our direction, but next to us on a frontage road. I could tell as soon as he saw it, because his whole body tensed, and he pressed back into his seat. He relaxed - a little - as soon as he could see it wasn't actually her.

And he had a little brief fright today, when I told him we had gotten a final corporate bank statement from Umpqua Bank in Oregon, and asked if he had opened another bank account that I hadn't known about.

He was worried until I saw it was the exact same account number of the corporate bank account, and so this must simply be the parent company of our bank. Speaking of her with his now-customary disdain/disgust, he said that SHE had wanted to open a new bank account for the corporation, in which to put the $100,000 she wanted to loan him in 4/05.

Which led to another interesting little discussion of where she could have gotten the money, but back to the main point: before, while the A was still going on, he could not hide his feelings when he talked about her.

Now, although he tries very hard to be nonchalant, the loathing oozes from every pore, whenever he speaks of her. Which, of course, is not often.

It is all kind of weird, but normal I suppose, that if he still talked about her all the time it would bother me, and if I talked about her to him all the time it would bother him. BUT when we talk about her once in a great while as the need arises, I always feel very good, very cleansed, and much lighter afterwards, and when I talk about her on here fairly frequently as I process through stuff, it also makes me feel much better.

A friend of mine read a book by a man who had an A and left his family, then came back to his family and God. He said that as often as the BS is thinking of the WS, of all the things they did together, missing them, wondering about them, the WS is thinking those same thoughts too, and more as time wears on.

So it makes me wonder, just out of curiosity and not because it matters, because it doesn't, whether she still thinks of me as often as I think of her. Well, the one thing besides curiosity would be thinking it wasn't fair if she was just happily lalala on with her life, while I still struggle often. But the Bible reassures that "The way of the transgressor is hard."

Oh, and her XBF's truck has been back at her house for a couple of months, without the new GF's car, as long as we're on the subject of A-news.

AJ is on the road now, back driving truck. We'll see how long he lasts, but typically he starts missing his home and family very quickly, and I'm surprised he's still as enthusiastic as he is after 3 wks.

Trust is a hard thing, obviously, but he spends hours every day on the phone with me (he has free incoming), and I can always check very easily whether she (lol) is home or not. Just between you, me, and the gatepost, after Neaksis gets back from AZ, I may decide to do enough sleuthing to verify that she has a nice, regular job, and can't just go flying off to parts unknown any time she wants.

I mean, I don't have any sense he is doing something wrong, but it will be a looooooong time before the Defcon levels come down any more than they are. I don't check anything frantically as I did during and just after the A, but have reached a nice middle ground of checking quite often, enough to feel safe, but in a more relaxed way.

He has also taken reliable people with him much of the time, during which periods I almost completely relax. Oh sure, he could use a second phone or calling card if he wanted to, but it is not possible to check everything, and what I can't detect by vigilance, I trust myself to detect with a fog alarm. Eventually.

Supper and work call, but I have shrunk several sizes already. Hope everybody is having a wonderful week so far.
I'm so happy to see things are going well for you and AJ. It is probably a constant battle to worry about gargmobile, but at least it keeps you on your toes.

I, on the otherhand, have not been as fortunate. It's amazing how much has changed for me in the one month since I posted to you. Not only do I have a new MB nickname, I'm on my way to the genuine divorce. We were not as lucky as you with the NC thingie. WS stayed away for 6 months, then started the friendship with the 21 year old again, which of course led to the SF, and much grossness.

Anyway, you are most certainly a great success story for the MB principles. You have held your head high, and managed not to lose respect for yourself or FWH along the way. I know you will always be watching for any signs of contact, and thus, if contact happens again, you will be on it so fast, and prevent further damage. Well done.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/01/06 01:22 AM
SC, I'm so sad to hear what your WH has done to you (again).

You are just as much an MB success story as I am, and in time you will feel like one, too.

A FWS renewing contact after months have gone by is the waking and sleeping terror of just about every new and especially seasoned-but-still-fairly-new BS on here. You are living the nightmare right now, but if there is one thing I have learned out of all this, it's that none of this pain will last forever. Your happy ending is still ahead of you, and that's a promise. It doesn't matter if your fairy tale has a different prince at the end of the story than at the beginning, or if there is no prince at all. The princess is a winner!

(Even if she doesn't feel like it right now.)

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/03/06 03:58 AM
She's baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

I grow less stunned with time, but it's still hard.

AJ is in OR, and we were playing with Yahoo Messenger to see if he can succeed in sending me a message. I logged onto his to see what his settings were, and up pops a message from the not-late, and unlamented Gargamel. (Well, I suppose it is lamented that he ever even spoke to her, much less anything else.)

With my little butterfingers, I managed to delete it before seeing the date, but I know it's fairly recent.


It's been a, what's up? Besides being broke.

I am this close [] to posting her (freshly resurrected) yahoo id on here and asking everyone to send her large doses of the truth. But that would be even worse than rubbing poison oak on her door handle. TURN FROM THE DARK SIDE!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't quite know how I feel yet. Of course I told AJ immediately, and he was easily able to detect the hint of snide. While he detests hearing from her, it doesn't bother him very much. She is yeth-terday'th duckieth, ath far ath he ith contherned.

Well, no matter how I feel, really. Kids still have to go to bed, house still has to be cleaned, husband still has to be loved. It will pass. It will pass. It will pass.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/07/06 06:44 AM
Just had to share a little funny on the subject of meeting EN's.

The last couple of days, though I had tried to have other things in order, I kept striking out in the shower. Not like that. I kept having to run around chasing kids and gathering clothes to change into and whatnot, so 2x in a row I got in just in time for him to wash my hair and scrub my back, right before he got out.

So today I thought I would fix that. I scrubbed all the liquid foundation and talcum powder off the tub (thank you, Dervish), ran it full of bubble bath, and went out to tell him I needed his help with something.

He came in, looked around, and asked what I needed help with.

"What do you mean, what do I need help with?"

"Well, you asked me to help you with something. What is it?"

Straight face. "I really wanted the water level in the tub higher than it is now, but I don't want to add any more water into it. So what I really need is for you to give me some water displacement."

He started cracking up and called me his little nerd, one of my favorite nicknames. Then he kissed me and squeezed me, and soaked in the tub till his feet wrinkled.

All in all, an EN success day, I think.

(Can I discount the total screamy fit the Dervish threw at bedtime? Although him stepping in for some much-needed Daddy Discipline met some of MY en's, lol.)
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/13/06 03:56 PM
I forgot this until just now, something AJ told me a couple months ago.

See, it seems that affairees are not really happy with each other just the way they are. They keep wanting the other person to change, or feeling as if they have to change themselves.

Maybe they think you can't truly be soulmates (gag) if you aren't identical twins, too.

AJ became a vegetarian while we were still dating, more than 11 years ago. (And it wasn't to please me, either. While I was gone on a trip with my family, he went from "I gotta have my steak!" to a full veggie-dude, having learned on his own more about a healthy diet, and deciding that's what he wanted.)

Gargamel is not a vegetarian.

First, she tried to convince him to eat meat again. I forget now, but he may have once or twice. I kinda think he did, but I'm not sure. Anyway, he ended up telling her that he was not going to eat meat.

Her solution? Was it to just simply allow each of them the space to eat the foods they wanted to eat? I think we all know the answer to THAT question, boys and girls.

Solution: "Well, then when you come live with me, I will become a vegetarian, and learn to cook vegetarian food for you."


In case I forgot to mention this, too, since it was from the same conversation, she also tried to get him to drink alongside her, perhaps being uncomfy being the only one of them passing out drunk from time to time. (He said that happened several times while he was with her, and greatly disgusted him.)

So first she tried to turn him into a drunken carnivore, and failing that, tried to turn herself into a drunken vegetarian. (Notice she did not offer to give up her alky.)

They just cannot be content with each other without major changes occurring, no matter how much they pretend to the contrary. And that is a part of the wakeup process, when all these little bits of reality intrude, showing the fantasy for what it is: a mirage.

Well, I hope that brightened someone's day; I am smiling, at least.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/21/06 07:25 AM
Still Seeking, you did it again. Upon arriving back from a mostly very unpleasant trip, during which one of the uppermost thoughts on my mind was the daydream of divorce, I read what you put on Mom's thread. Something like, "Hope all are well and happy. If well but not happy, repent."

That little one sentence sledgehammer changed the direction of my ship, and within the space of a couple of days, all is well on its way to on track.

From great discontent and an upsurge of resentment, to once again worshiping and praying together, and in unity of heart. We serve such a wonderful God!

I hope to have time to mull my way through this whole thing later, but for the reasons given over on Mom's thread, I am not going to try and do it tonight, and maybe not tomorrow either.

There are plenty of other thoughts burning holes in my mental pockets, too, but I wanted to give a summary, and to thank you for once again...."a word fitly spoken".
Be interested in hearing about the trip.

When I read about the conditions of the trip, I wondered how much "good" it would do for all of you.

AJ would have to be concerned about the load. Men are a little different about work than women. I imagined he would be taking care of the driving, and watching traffic, and not be paying too much attention to the kids, or to you. Even when stopped his mind may have been on work, not on all of you.

Of course, I have no idea how it really was. Would love to hear, but don't type it out unless it helps YOU.

We serve such a wonderful God!

Isn't that the truth. I wish everyone could know how it is.

Not always protection FROM problems, but such great help in getting through them.

Glad you are all home safe.
SS smiles.
Glad you are back on track. That's important.


Upon arriving back from a mostly very unpleasant trip, during which one of the uppermost thoughts on my mind was the daydream of divorce...

You'd never have known this if you could've seen the pleasant, smiling demeanor (hers) which stepped out of the truck when we met at Wal-Mart to get school supplies for the kiddies. Honestly, if it weren't for MB, how would the rest of the family ever know what was going on in that girl's head?

Posted By: nc007 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/21/06 10:12 PM
i just started reading this thread. can i say you are a total inspiration.

my WW will continue to feel my love even after all hostility is unleashed in my direction.

thanks for teaching me your patience and love.

go with God.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/22/06 11:06 PM
NC007, thanks for stopping by. All patience and love on this thread brought to you courtesy of God. My little store ran out a long time ago.

God will keep enough love in your heart to respond to your wife's vilifications with His grace. Mercy = undeserved favor.

I think my story is a good illustration that recovery is usually much harder than busting up an A in the first place. Periodic doubts from the great enemy notwithstanding, recovery is a very worthwhile endeavor, in spite of the ups and downs.

Do I ever regret choosing my marriage after the A? Sometimes, but only when I am cranky (usually when he is cranky), and never for very long at a time. I have come to recognize that as just part of the roller-coaster experience, and very normal. As time goes on, more and more of my life becomes good stuff, and less and less becomes doubting/resenting.

Knowing that I will keep cycling like this for a while, but going longer between downs, and having mostly ups, helps me not to completely lose perspective on those occasions when I start wondering if I did the right thing.

Affair-busting is like a stagger through the desert, parched and starving, out of your head with the pain of the heat and thirst, and just when you think you can't go on any longer, along come the locusts. When you finally come to in the oasis, you find that you have stumbled and crawled about 10 miles altogether, and a very rough ten miles it was!

Recovery is like a brisk hike from the east coast to the left. You have adequate food and water, at least most of the time (provisions may have been scanty at first, but hunting improved along the way), and much of the time the view is very beautiful and inviting. You do have deserts and dry spells, flies, the occasional disease or two, but you are much more alert and able to deal with them. They slow you down, but you just keep walking. And walking. And walking. For five thousand miles.

The affair time is very intense, but recovery requires tremendous endurance. And yet it is easier, too, because you have someone there to share it with you. (And even if you don't, your own healing will be just as beautiful. God never allows anyone to pass through the fire needlessly.)

I posted this on Mom's thread a couple months ago, but it fits in perfectly here.


Some time ago, a few ladies met in a certain city to read the scriptures, and make them the subject of conversation.

While reading the third chapter of Malachi they came upon a remarkable expression in the third verse: "And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."

One lady's opinion was that it was intended to convey the view of the sanctifying influence of the grace of Christ. Then she proposed to visit a silversmith and report to them what she said on the subject.

She went accordingly and without telling the object of her errand, begged to know the process of refining silver, which he fully described to her. "But Sir" she said, "do you sit while the work of refining is going on?"

"Oh, yes, madam," replied the silversmith; "I must sit with my eye steadily fixed on the furnace, for if the time necessary for refining be exceeded in the slightest degree, the silver will be injured." The lady at once saw the beauty, and comfort too, of the expression, "He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."

Jesus sees it needful to put His children into a furnace; His eye is steadily intent on the work of purifying, and His wisdom and lover are both engaged in the best manner for them. Their trials do not come at random; "The very hairs of your head are numbered."

As the lady was leaving the shop, the silversmith called her back, and said he had forgotten to mention that the only way that he knows when the process of purifying is complete is when he sees his own image reflected in the silver.

Posted By: nc007 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/22/06 11:22 PM
i am looking at WW and i see her not even blinking at me when i try to care for her. Then she got a splinter in her feet (beach) and i offered to help. she pulled away from me. really felt bad thats what i have to do "plan A"

sometimes i wonder if its in vain then when i read your life playing out. i get really inspired.

thank you.

do you ever gat scared that it wouldnt work out?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/23/06 12:17 AM
During the A, I always had faith it would work out, right up until I discovered the false recovery.

During recovery, I have often been scared/wondered/doubted whether it would work or not.

When I really stop to think about it, and realize that except for normal blips in life, he is the same new and improved person he has been for the last year +, it helps me to see that even though it's his fault I am having the problem in the first place, it is something inside me that needs fixing. That his current actions are not the cause.

It reminds me of the Bible verse I found early on in recovery, "Though I have stolen nothing, still I must restore it." (That made me really mad at first. I am used to it now, most of the time.)

Since he made the problem, but is not currently contributing to it, that means it is a question of just recovering from the past, rather than whether we should be together now.

I don't know if I'm making sense or not. If things were generally bad now, or if AJ were not holding up his end of the bargain, that is when I would be completely and totally justified in taking a hard look at whether to continue the recovery.

But when he is doing very well now, and I am doing mostly well, to me that indicates more of a need of letting time do its work, than a huge flaw in the marriage as it is today.

Let me know if that didn't answer your question, or if I need to clarify. (Sometimes I can be too profound for my own good, lol.)

By way of a lala-land update, AJ just received a magazine which is issued yearly, "Insiders Betting Digest". AJ is not interested in sports, and does not gamble.

I can't remember if I have mentioned before that around the time he dumped Gargy he started getting subscriptions to 2 really trashy magazines, "Blender", and far worse, "FHM". (Hope I am not stepping on any toes here, but these are totally skanky, and FHM is one step up from porn.)

At the time, I asked AJ about them, and he said he did not get them. His credibility was so low at the time that I saw his lips moving and assumed he was lying, and didn't think much more about it, except to throw them away as they arrived whenever possible.

A few months ago, renewal notices arrived for both magazines, which I also threw away. AJ has not renewed them. Then, at nearly the same time (within the last few days), this new betting mag arrives, as well as a new Blender. That is when it finally began to dawn on me that he might have been telling the truth after all.

So I am conducting some inquiries, and will report if I find out anything interesting.

As Neaksis said, "If she was hoping for a reaction, I'm sure she will be disappointed that it was more than a year before you even thought of it." (Neaksis is snarky, but that is part of her charm. )

So maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake. Even if it's not her, the possibility should have occurred to me before this. I'll temporarily surrender my Sherlock license before it's revoked.

(Sometimes I can be too profound for my own good, lol.)

To say nothing of wordy.


So maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake.

Yes, that does seem to be a bit of a possibility here, doesn't it? And I think you might have shared the origin of those magazines with me, at least at some point BEFORE YESTERDAY, so they wouldn't have been such a shock for me to find every so often. To say nothing of your poor, virginal sister. I've thought her eyes have been bugging out worse than usual lately...and now I know why!

Posted By: nc007 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/23/06 01:52 PM
cool. You know .there are days (like today) that i dont even know if i should persevere. i cannot see my light at the end of the tunnel.

things may get worse before they get better. then my faith in God isnt much (based on me trying to play God:acting as if he is too slow)

pray that your recovery is total.

pray for me too.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/23/06 02:30 PM
Jamaica - wow!

Sorry you're having a discouraging day. The bad news is they will come in recovery, too, the good news is you will have plenty of good days, too.

God is guiding each of us through a process, very slow it may seem to us, and often painful, but he is working out a far greater plan than we can see, wonderful and eternal.

Uh oh, Neaksis just called and may be having car trouble, so I've got to dash early to get the kids to school. I will say a prayer for you on the way.

Mom, I got one step closer to finding our mysterious benefactor. Be back later.
Posted By: nc007 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/23/06 02:49 PM
You sound pretty cool. Wise beyond your years spiritually.

She said that she is trying to take it one day at a time. then she has not moved out as yet (maybe because i asked God to block all the exits).

i am praying and still pray that God give me patience as he did you. I want this to end like Yesterday.

As we say here " TEK IT EASY MY GIRL" (be calm and at peace, my girlfriend)

one luv.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/24/06 05:19 AM
I don't know if I am exactly wise (technically I do know, and I'm not very wise, maybe just have learned a little in spots), but no question I'm a different person than I was before. Mostly for the good, and the bad that has developed as a result of this experience, I try to either eliminate as it comes to my attention, or channel into more productive areas. Sometimes it even works.

So much on my mind, with not enough time to say it right now, so I will just give a boring update on the magazine thing.

It has slipped through the company cracks, and there is no record of where it came from.

There is one company that they mentioned sometimes purchases subscriptions for their customers, but AJ doesn't remember if he has ordered from them. (It is car stuff.) So who knows? And since I probably will never know one way or the other for sure, who cares?

Life goes on, till the next time.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/31/06 02:02 AM

I just spent the last 1/2 hour posting about the trip, and lost it all. I don't even care enough at this point to do it again.

Suffice it to say, he was cranky and raised his voice with me, I was very cranky and polite with him. I stewed when we got home, until reading what Still Seeking wrote about repentance.

I prayed, repented, and AJ called me up a few hours later and spontaneously read me worship and we prayed together. Sudden love flood. Everything has been better since, and we have continued to worship again. It's a pity we got busy and let it slip.
Thanks for trying, I'm sure more than one of us would have been interrested in reading it.

Being in love is a wonderful thing when both of you are.

Hope you are getting enough rest.

Posted By: nc007 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/31/06 05:39 PM
neak u still there?

whats going on today?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/31/06 07:43 PM
I'm here, briefly.

This morning I had to take Grandpa to court, as he is being sued wrongfully, and this was the first date. Maybe Mom will have time to post something more about it when she gets up.

Then I went to try and clear up a bill, came home for a little (here I am now), and need to go back up shortly and pick up the kids, then go back to the bill place and take them their paperwork, then come home and clean house. Whew! I'm tired just thinking of it.

Just in case you meant how I am M-wise, quite good overall.

Last night we had such a good time. After he got to his delivery site, we chatted on YM for a while, and played checkers (I got totally whooped), then dominoes (we tied).

I haven't seen him since Monday, but we have talked for hours each day. Lucky he has a good phone plan.

How are you doing? Even if it doesn't look good on the outside, as long as you keep going you know it'll turn out ok.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 08/31/06 07:45 PM
SS - I'm not getting enough rest, exactly, but what I do get is usually of a high quality.

Still just trying to figure out how to get everything done in the evening that I need to, and get up early with the kids to get them ready for school. It will probably come together in a few weeks.
SS - I'm not getting enough rest, exactly, but what I do get is usually of a high quality.

Ho, Ho.
I need 8 hours a night, and I only get 5 but my bed is really soft.

I should be happy for you?


I doubt very much if any thing we say will get you more sleep, but we can keep praying for it. I suspect you'll get help if and when you need it. HE can make it work anyway.

Still just trying to figure out how to get everything done in the evening that I need to, and get up early with the kids to get them ready for school. It will probably come together in a few weeks.

Or a few Decades. Ha, Ha, Ha. No, actually, it does get better. The tasks don't reduce, but you get better at balancing it all, and you learn to pray more, and get the help you need that way since they don't sell sleep at Home Depot these days. (Not sure why, they were always sold out??)

Yes, I remember. It seems so peaceful and slow with only two at home these days. I get lots more sleep now.

Hope the book deal goes well.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 11/30/06 07:46 PM
This is not the update and muse that I am sorely in need of. Some good, some not as good.

But this was definitely good. AJ had asked me to get something for him out of his email box, and I happened to see an email titled, "Your Order from Family Life".

An email from a source I am familiar with, and obviously not having any harmful content, or anything at all to worry about, and I should probably be able to resist reading it. Especially this close to Christmas.


But he ordered a book called Tips to Romance Your Wife, and it just made me so happy! I can hardly wait till it gets here so I can sneak a peek and see what ideas are in it.

I think I'd better get a similar book for women and leave it lying around.
You have already been romancing him for months. I hope he has noticed.

If not, YOU get a cast iron frying pan.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 11/30/06 09:30 PM

He noticed for a long time, then I think he forgot to notice for a while, but now he seems to be noticing again.
My worst problems (when I found MB) were Love Busters.

I would ask my W to run errands for me, then ask her why the house work wasn't done - forgetting she was just doing what I asked. I would use DJ's, and say she never did this, or always did that.

Once we both read the book, she would call me on what I was doing, and I understood, because I had read it. DR Haley defines things well, and it's hard not to "get it."

If your H hasn't read "Love Busters" I highly recommend it. There is much more to this than just meeting needs.

It could do wonders for you.

- That........... and a cast iron frying pan.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/01/06 05:02 PM
ROFL - I have several very nice ones.

You have hit this on the head. That is exactly what he has been doing, and is what has been my biggest source of frustration and bad feelings.

He asks me to do all this running around for him, drive too, and then he would go off on me for not having all the other stuff done, as well.

"Why didn't you have this done????? What have you been doing all those days since you got home, anyway????????"

"Well, the first day I did this and this. The next day I was gone doing this for you. The day after that was this other thing that you needed done, and right now you have me gone doing this."


KLONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Frying pans are not as effective over the phone.)

So, that's the bad stuff in a nutshell. I will definitely check out the LB book, and ask him to read it, too. It sounds like it would be werry helpful.

I still feel the need to go on a long ramble regarding where I am in my personal healing, maybe several rambles, but will have to save it for later. Dervish Duty calls.
ROFL - I have several very nice ones.

My W likes the middle sized ones. The small ones don't hit hard enough, and the big ones are too hard to swing very fast - and I usually dodge.

You have hit this on the head. That is exactly what he has been doing, and is what has been my biggest source of frustration and bad feelings.

I asked you some things last year, but your answers were very positive - that all was getting better. I had some reservations then. You can see if you go back and read that I kept asking/commenting even after you said things were fine. It was more a feeling, than actual knowledge. I concentrated advising you, wondering if it was your health, or the loss you experienced, or what.

Knowing what I do about me, I would guess he has been this way since ............. well, before the A. Again, I am going from personal experience - what I was like.

We married when I was 21, and she was 19. I was very immature. It's somewhat better now that I'm 51. I really wanted to do what was right, but I didn't have the skills, and I had too much of an ego -

I hope I don't project me onto your H, but I use my past as a frame of reference.

He asks me to do all this running around for him, drive too, and then he would go off on me for not having all the other stuff done, as well.

I never gave her a break. Some days I don't feel really well, and I kind of coast along trying to get by so I can go home and relax. Thinking back, she must have days like that too, but I expected her to be at top form every day, and preform better than I could preform. How bad is that?

"Why didn't you have this done????? What have you been doing all those days since you got home, anyway????????"

"Well, the first day I did this and this. The next day I was gone doing this for you. The day after that was this other thing that you needed done, and right now you have me gone doing this."


Yes, like that.
In our case there were reasons for me to wonder - which I won't go into in detail. The mistrust caused much of the doubt. Instead of talking about the direct issues, we danced around debating the results. It didn't work.

After reading Harley's books we started talking about our feelings. She doesn't take the "grilling" from me any more. She tells me that my queries are DJ's and that if I want to hear about her day, she'll tell me, but that she worked hard, all day long, and it's just tough if I don't like the results.

It's more complicated that this simplified version. We needed to become partners in our marriage, not adversaries. Our differences were tearing us apart. Now we realize they are God given, and we use the our strengths to build each other up, and we try to compensate for the weaknesses of the other if we can, not harp about them.

KLONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Frying pans are not as effective over the phone.)

No - not nearly as good.
W is getting better at telling me she only has so much time, and would I like her to do this or that? Since she can't do both in one day. It helps me not expect so much. She is also getting better at telling me her personal priorities are just as important as mine, and she won't have time today, because of things she needs to do for herself. I am getting better at understanding and doing things for her so she has time to help me if I really need her to.

So, that's the bad stuff in a nutshell. I will definitely check out the LB book, and ask him to read it, too. It sounds like it would be werry helpful.

Once I read it, and realized what I had been doing, it made me sick. I still have a hard time seeing her side sometimes, but as I said, Harley explains it well, and she tells me when I make a DJ. AO's (angry outbursts) are pretty much history. We talk a lot more, and we share feelings. It keeps the resentment from building up. I don't say what I feel until I think about it, and she is more willing to share when she feels I have been unfair. Without the feedback she gives, it's hard for me to know how I'm doing. (that's a hint - talk to him.)

I still feel the need to go on a long ramble regarding where I am in my personal healing, maybe several rambles, but will have to save it for later. Dervish Duty calls.

I'd like to hear it.

Did the Dervish make it to bed unscathed?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/02/06 07:24 AM
The last few months have been very much like pre-A conditions. This is how he had been for all of our marriage so far, until the last year and a half. I'm sure there was still room for improvement, even at the best, but it was so much better than how it had been.

I think this will take a long time to fix, with many changes needing to be made on both sides.

When I got home after the evening of fun and chickens, the Dervish was twisted around in his booster so that his feet were sticking up where his head should have been, and his head was pointed down, resting on his pile of blankets. Don't ask me how, but he was still strapped in, too.

Unscathed? Not by a long shot.
Being mortal, and having weaknesses, we never really get to where we want to go while in this life. (This is a personal observation, but remember I a only 51. Perhaps you can ask Grand Pa what he thinks.)

It's hard to know sometimes........ what we should live with, and when we ought to set boundaries and demand change.

Outside input can be valuable - those that don't have the investment we have can often see things we can't see.

Prayer, fasting, and quiet meditation help too. These three are very difficult for mothers to come by - especially mothers who have a dervish still at home.

It would help AJ to do these things also. I include scriptue study, and that helps me personally. It's hard to read the lessons of the scriptures and not respond to them. He could listen to books on tape - perhaps while he drives. Not always, but sometimes.

BTW, you do know I am just relating experiences, and making suggestions don't you? I do expect you to filter this into what works best for you. I hope some or all of it is helpful.

Sometimes I don't have time to explain as much as I want. When I said I was worried last year.......... things come through sometimes. You have been positive when good things happen, but quiet (or quieter) in between times. Sometimes it just feels like you are hurting, but it's hard to know what's happening if you are quiet.

It's more difficult to talk in detail to people you know well, and the longer a person is here, the more they feel they know others they talk to. It all factors in.

I almost bet you have avoided talking about things sometimes because you weren't sure if it was normal Male/Female stuff, or if there really was a problem. Meanwhile, you have bad feelings and they don't go away like you think they should.

While outside influences can often see things we can't, they sometimes go about helping in ways that are harmful. Sometimes intervention us good, sometimes not.

Good - when one or the other in a marriage is selfish, and appeasement doesn't work - but it's the method being used.

Bad - when both in the marriage are trying hard, but just not going fast enough for the third party.

Don't fear.

Rely on God to guide you. You know there's help there. Count on it.

Be careful, act wisely. Don't wear yourself out.

From Mark chapter 8 -
"36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Work at full strength, but don't give away too much.

My compliments to the Dervish, but I have to leave now. I hope this day was good for all of you.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/03/06 08:17 AM

I almost bet you have avoided talking about things sometimes because you weren't sure if it was normal Male/Female stuff, or if there really was a problem. Meanwhile, you have bad feelings and they don't go away like you think they should.

This is very true, but the third option in there was also wondering if my feelings were just a side effect of trying to heal from the A. I figured it was one of the three.


Bad - when both in the marriage are trying hard, but just not going fast enough for the third party.

We probably don't have to worry about that one. Not so far, anyway.

Your experiences are very helpful, because even if the particulars are different, the basic concepts are the same as what I am working on right now.

With a renewal of spiritual growth in both of us, that alone is helping a great deal. When that fell aside, things moved to just about the intolerable level, at least for me. Not that everything is perfectly fixed - that will mean new habits, which take time to form - but we are now in a position of being loving toward each other and in a more proper frame of mind altogether.

Even though he is in OR, he read worship for us tonight and prayed for us over the phone. Huge LB deposits there.

There are a few things I must take care of first, then my bright idea is 1) I need to fill out the EN questionnaire for him 2) Read the LB book and 3) Fill out the LB questionnaire.

I'm glad we're having this talk. Thanks so much for taking the time to post this.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/03/06 04:48 PM
If you would, could you give Suzanna42 some advice? She has the classic cake-eater WH. I thought you could shed some light on the subject.

- Jim
I have all kinds of questions that have come to me, but I won't ask most of them.

You said there are things that need improvement on both sides.

I am thinking about OUR journey, and It prompts a few of my questions. (Our - meaning my W and I.)

I did have some valid complains about my W. However, I had lots of "complaints" that were not valid also. If I had a good day, I would overlook nearly anything she did, and try to get along. If I had an OK day, I might bring up things and talk about them reasonably and we might make headway.

If I had a bad day, or was tired, or if something had gone for a long time without being discussed, I might blow up and be angry, and let the DJ's and AO's fly.

We learned some things -

1. Both of us have bad days, and we shouldn't talk when we are having one.

2. It's not good to let things go on good days without getting them out on the table.

3. Talking respectfully to each other and making helpful suggestions works much better than AO's and DJ's

I do recommend filling out the LB survey, and the EN questionnaire. Using this method takes the emotion out of it - prevents it from being discussed just because it's a bad day. You can clear the air, so to speak. Let him read the book first. If he won't read it, kick him out until he is ready to get serious. (If you need backup, call Neaksis, I hear she's good for it.)

With a renewal of spiritual growth in both of us, that alone is helping a great deal. When that fell aside, things moved to just about the intolerable level, at least for me. Not that everything is perfectly fixed - that will mean new habits, which take time to form - but we are now in a position of being loving toward each other and in a more proper frame of mind altogether.

Two things are happening here.
The first is that this is a need of yours. When I first came to the forum, it was debated if this was/could be a need. My personal feeling is that it is. If he is a spiritual leader to your family, it will make huge love bank deposits. This may be at or near the top for you.

The second thing happening is that when we study, and pray it helps us overcome all the other problems we have. All of us have faults. All of us need help overcoming them. You know that unless we come to God we can't be perfected. There is no other way. So, this is the path to overcoming problems in marriage too. When one spouse is trying hard, and using God for help, the other has hope, and faith that things will improve, and it helps them be more patient. It's easier to love.

Even though he is in OR, he read worship for us tonight and prayed for us over the phone. Huge LB deposits there.


I don't know if it would work well for me over the phone, but if it does for you, then I am glad.

My W has similar feelings about spirituality in her spouse. I hope I don't let her down. The adversary is real, the refiners fire is hot.

When we did the work sheets, we did them on three different days. The EN one first - during a picinc a the park. The others later on and I can't remember, except we did them all in Feb of 2002 after I found MB. We wanted to do them all at once, but there was so much to talk about, and it went so long that we thought we better quit, and do more on another day. Both of us had valid concerns. I noticed later, afterI read Mars/Venus that many of our concerns were simply the gender differences in us. If you haven't read that, I recommend it also.

I was teasing about throwing him out, but if he won't read, it's serious. If he cares about you, he should be willing. I'll let you think about that one for a while.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/06 06:45 AM
#'s 1-3 are all equally applicable to this, IMO. He has a bad day so stuff that should have come up before comes all at once, when we are both cranky and not inclined to patience. He blows up about things that have bothered him for weeks or even months, and then life goes on very quickly.

For my part, I defend myself very vigorously, doubtless sometimes when I ought to be taking responsibility, but get too upset at how he is speaking to be able to evaluate properly what he is saying. Then I steam at him for several days.

I have tried to talk to him about this the last couple days, and I don't think what I am saying is getting through to him, and I also don't think that his responses are getting through to me. I do think the questionnaires would help to bridge the gap.

That, and some sleep.

welcome back & I hope the trip was ok.

I've been reading & thinking & thinking & reading ...

I wondered... the word entitlement popped into my head. Why does he feel entitled to have his expectations met on these issues?

Reverting to old habits?

I do feel he needs to do a bit of the house chores and share the work at home when you are also driving and running around for him. H needs to appreciate that just because he is busy driving it doesn't mean you sit on your butt eating chocs and watching days of lives repeats (or is it still going lol?) ... mmm no that's my job I wish!! ... but seriously, he needs a dose of reality here, kids, home, meals, school, washing, etc etc etc unfortunately we don't have magic pixies at the bottom of the garden to do it all for us.

And then we are expected to be romantic after bleaching the loo or wiping a bubs bottom at about midnight or later ... not exactly my idea of an aphrodisiac.
however seeing the dishes done or something simple like that can do wonders for the libido after a hectic day. the L bank just goes ca-ching $$$

As I told my other half, holding Mikey on one hip, the broken washing machine hose spurting water in the other hand, if the unmade bed disturbs you please feel free to make it for me.

I feel some time needs to be set aside for some serious discussion. This is the stuff which drives recovering couples apart by preventing the nurturing feelings to come back to each of you. Instead resentment just builds up and the old cycle of the previous M issues start over again. The old love bank goes dry pretty quickly as well

Of course there may be issues he's just dyimg to talk to you about too, so a set down might be good in the recovery process when things bother either one. Less misunderstanding then.

Anyway just my 2c and you probably have thought about all of this anyway... just don't put it off. I used to be great at that.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/08/06 09:56 PM
We did talk this morning, and you were spot on that there were things he wanted to talk about, too.

For example, when I am trying really hard to be nice and not blow up at him, how I come across to him is that I'm talking down to him and being patronizing.

That was a real surprise, since no such snobbishness was meant.

In our own way, we each were feeling unappreciated.

I think he understands better now how I feel, trying to do this stuff and not getting it all done, and I understand better how it feels for him, that he thinks of and does a lot of nice things for me (even including household stuff when he is home, although there is never such a thing as too much, lol), and it still seemed to be not enough to keep me happy.

He even thought that my upsetness with him was traceable to the other incident I mentioned to you, which is totally not the case.

As to the entitlement thing, I think he just gets used to relying on me for this stuff, and doesn't even think about it. I would like for us to find a happy medium, if possible, somewhere between where we are now, and where we tend to go when the subject comes up, which is, "Fine, then I won't ask you to do anything for me ever again." I enjoy being able to do things for him, but sometimes I can't always get it done, or just plain forget. (I need to get better at asking him to do things to help when I am extra busy. You may not have noticed this, but asking for help does not come second nature to me.)

The long and the short of it is, it is not enough only for us to do a good job meeting each other's EN's; we need to avoid LB's also, just as the good doctor himself says. And we were both surprised at the things that were making withdrawals from the other person.

A little later, he called me up and read the lovely card he had gotten for me, but none of the places he tried to mail it sold stamps. It was very beautiful, and brimming with thankfulness, and he correctly deduced that it was something I needed to hear just then.

So it's a good start. And I am looking forward to him coming home.
Thats a great start Neak !

The hard part of course is making behavioural changes permanent ... might need a POJA on how to discuss & address when lapses occur, because as it's all new it happens even with the best of intentions.

silence is my ans to the obvious question, yes me too.

Its the misintrepretation that goes on which is so easy, in hindsight, to resolve. Like when I think Aussie is upset with me and therefore quiet, usually its just because hes quiet and I don't figure in the mood at all. But feel guilty anyway

Its the LB's that we don't even know we put on the other, like when you try to do something nice and it comes across as manipulative because the message got mixed. Yeah done that. Had that done to me. If he was here I'd talk to him about it

Consistency is the key from both. The long haul is lots of little steps ... talking of which I have to go take his master out for a walk .. my exercise

Hugs ( oh the blow up at him thing .. I use his punching bag out the back and admit swearing at it )
I can't believe Neak would go three days without telling us how it is.

Well, maybe I can, but it's difficult.

Maybe with getting Neaksis ready for the wedding and all, she is too busy.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/12/06 01:06 AM
Tee hee hee hee, and to think, she still doesn't even know she's getting married!

We had company all weekend, and today was a teacher meeting, always an educational emphasis time.

It was a very nice weekend - very bonding and full of affection on both sides. The only thing was that with company, he wasn't quite able to make good on his promise that when he left I wouldn't be able to walk. I can still walk, though I limp a little.

Then it was all over with so quickly, and he is back to work again.

I nearly wet myself when, at the Christmas program, Neaksis' kids' biomom came up to AJ, whom she hasn't seen in some time, and said, "AJ! You've gotten so ffffffffchubby!!!"

Always a model of tact.

Always loyal, Mr. Computer artlessly told her that she looked bigger, too. Bwaaaaaa!!!

My favorite line from his herald monologue was the closing: All you Judaeans need to come to your census!
And now is just the right time to have her dress up in white and say its for her to be in the play as an ANGEL!! hehehe

Besides, its probably not a good idea to know your future H or W too well.

Besides, its probably not a good idea to know your future H or W too well.

Her father and I knew each other exactly 3 months to the day when we got married. Can't say that NOT knowing your future hubby too well has worked out that hot, either.

HI ya TL !!!

well maybe we have to use a computer, or a darts board, maybe the highest card, because it seems to me its as good as long term dating, living together, whatever!

Or maybe ........ "eenie, meenie, minee mo ........."

Now as for


Her father and I knew each other exactly 3 months to the day when we got married. Can't say that NOT knowing your future hubby too well has worked out that hot, either.

well what about 3 pretty wonderful kids tl? Mmmmmmm? Not a failure I guess. You sound just like my mum! I point out the same things but 5 kids and all I get is 'Yes dear BUT..."
I love dad but its true he doesn't like going out, doesn't like going on holidays, doesn't believe in buying presents or forgets, doesn't do much with mum unless he's pushed ... cripes that sounds like most husbands I know in our family!!

well what about 3 pretty wonderful kids tl?

I have 4 kids. Which one are we leaving out?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/12/06 07:52 PM

I was just wondering the very same thing!!!!!!
She must be fairly certain she isn't the one!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/13/06 12:15 AM
Never crossed my mind.
OMG talk about being vacant as a bloke.

I was thinking of my own kids and kept repeating over and over to myself "I'm sure TL has 4..I think ... DON'T put 3 in" ....... and then put 3 in.

OK lets try that again .... "well what about 4 pretty wonderful kids tl?"

So now that you tried to avoid the Q ... fess up tl!!

So now that you tried to avoid the Q ... fess up tl!!

I wasn't actually avoiding the question, at least not deliberately. I was speaking more in terms of the functional efficiency of the marital factory, which is marginal at best, and not so much about the product generated by it, which is superb...if I must say so myself.


just picked up my son from the airport ..he looks so handsome in his uniform I had to fight all those hussies off him at the lounge bar ... to his great disappointment but I was NOT going to wait around while he was on the make

oh my gosh he is so big, he towers over me & Aussie.
I then got him home and had to feed him as one meal appears to have not been enough had a play with Mikey who was woken by SOMEONE I wont mention then he went to sleep
and the

functional efficiency of the marital factory, which is marginal at best

Mum has begun referring to her & dad as "Partial disfunctional happiness with some periods of discontent"

I think that means dad drives her up the wall sometimes
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/13/06 04:09 PM
It is truly eerie how much our parents remind me of each other.

Last night Dad called, chatted a bit, then said, "I'd better go - your mother is just about to leave for work and I have to go bug her a bit."

He was kidding. I think.
Is that why he came padding down the stairs as I was hustling out the door?

You ladies sure put on a good show. I hope I can actually work now.

AW, I'm glad your son is safely home.

Neak, I'm glad you can still walk.
I think.

We know what AJ said, but what did you say in reply?

And on other subjects -
Are you sure your dad didn't say "HUG her a bit?"

You probably are sure. It's just that .......... Oh never mind.

I hope everyone can feel the warmth of the season.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/14/06 01:10 AM
My response was pretty much that I knew I had things I needed to change also, and that if he spoke to me about them in a gentle way that I would be more receptive. Also that I was still not going to be perfect, and if he had to talk to me about something more than once, to be patient then, too.

You were right; I am pretty sure about the bug thing.

You were right; I am pretty sure about the bug thing.

Mum & Dads anniversary tomorrow .. I wonder if he will remember .. I would have been more forward with reminders but as far as mum is concerned if he doesn't make the effort then it doesn't mean much

I sort of know how she feels as its been forgotten in this M as well a number of times
well if I HAVE to be honest on one of those occasions I forgot as well.. new baby ( Not Mikey of course), deployment, moving to new housing in another state..just one of those times.
I can't imagine not remembering your wedding anniversary. (Unless you just had a baby, and were moving to another state, etc, etc.

We tend to make it a special occasion these days - go stay somewhere away by ourselves.

I didn't always understand, but I can say that using MB materials sure helps. I feel bad for the men who don't get that, because they don't know just how good it could really be.

I ought to tell a joke, and lighten the mood, but I can't think of one.

My x once didn't bother getting me an anniversary present until after the fact. Claimed he didn't have time. Excuse me, he spent his day driving around town to appts he had set up. Like he couldn't have done it while out. After all, it was on Valentine's Day. How do you forget that. I still remember what he got me once he got around to it.....a betamax copy of "Romancing the Stone'.
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/06 06:54 AM
So, the wedding is still on?

When are you sending me the airline tickets?


"Romancing the Stone"

Almost sounds like you got a copy of your own autobiography, doesn't it?


When are you sending me the airline tickets?

I'm really short this month. And I don't have much money, either. I'm afraid you'll have to hitch hike. It's only about 2,500 miles!!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/15/06 04:18 PM

short this month

Only in December, short you are?

AD, in this day of modern technology, you don't need airline tickets. Just fax yourself here!


"Romancing the Stone"

Almost sounds like you got a copy of your own autobiography, doesn't it?


Ok, whos been talking? And why do I see heads nodding 'Yes' all over the place ???????
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/16/06 06:58 PM

I'm afraid you'll have to hitch hike. It's only about 2,500 miles!!

Why are you afraid of that?

OK, here goes! I've got my bag packed.

Thumbs up!

(Maybe Neak will stop and give me a ride. Where's she driving this week?)

Mornin AD or evening I suspose for you!

I could not resist ... truckin' across the USA can only mean one thing ......

We 'as headin' fer bear on I-One-Oh
'Bout a mile outta Shaky-Town
I sez Pig-Pen, this here's the Rubber Duck
An' I'm about to put the hammer on down
Cause we gotta little ol' convoy, rockin' through the night
Yeah we gotta little ol' convoy, ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on an' join our convoy, ain't nothin' gonna git in our way
We're gonna roll this truckin' convoy, cross the USA
Convoy... Convoy...
Got a better one for you, aussiewife....

A car goes up, a car goes by
It's nearly 1 AM and here am I
Hitching a riiiiiide, hitching a ride....
Ride, ride , ride, hitching a ride.....
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/17/06 04:29 PM
This morning he is leaving for UT and TX. That is better than half-way, right?

Love those songs - now they're going to be stuck in my head ALL DAY LONG!!!

Convoy, convoy....hitching a ride.......
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 05:27 AM

Oh my! I'm in Toledo now. I thought the driver said he was going to Laredo.

I fell asleep and the next thing I knew, he was on my side of the truck with the door open, pulling me out of the truck. "You get out here", he said. There was a young woman standing nearby smoking nervously. As I stumbled toward the truck stop, she got in, and off they rolled into the night.

I had to pay $10 to get online.

I'd better go find a place to sleep.

Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 05:33 AM
Oops, the third option of the third question should read
"6 to 10 business days"

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 05:35 AM
Better stay in Toledo, lol. AJ found out this afternoon that he is going from UT to WA instead. Or did you mean a different Toledo?

You would write a great IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT novel. I can't wait to hear the next installment.
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 05:43 AM
Hmmm.. Well, I thought it was Toledo, Ohio, but... Now I'm not sure. I had to ask where I am once already, so I don't want to ask again - draws too much unwanted attention. OK, there's three guys in here with Ohio State shirts on. It must be Ohio... But, wait a minute... There's a lady with a Seattle Mariner's jacket. Hmmm. 3 to 1 I'm in Ohio. I'm sure I couldn't sleep any farther than that.

I've got to get off now.

What a relief. Still a long ways away! We're going to need sufficient warning before he arrives so that all that reconstructive work Neaksis needs can be completed before he gets here. Too bad we don't wear veils in our family. It'd save a LOT of work, and he wouldn't find out anything depressing until it was too late. The eyes are nice, after all!

Ga-a-a-a-a-a-a-ah! Oh! Hi, Neaksis. What are you doing here? And why didn't you make more noise on your way?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 07:41 AM
Funny......I thought the rest of her was fine, and her eyes, with their crazed look, the only part that might be considered off-putting.

She's asleep on my bed, so I have till morning to find a safe hiding place.
Odd you should say that. With only the eyes showing, that special sparkle could simply be interpreted as interest and a hint of intrigue, don't you think? In my opinion, and for what it's worth, the psychosis is not immediately apparent.

And you're right--you'd better be finding a safe place to sleep before she logs on in the morning. When I get home, I'm locking my doors before I go to sleep. For some reason, 16 miles doesn't feel like enough of a buffer right now. Probably sleep with one eye open, too.


P.S. Go to bed. You're going to hate yourself in the morning. And don't let her fix you breakfast!
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/18/06 07:57 AM
Bet that one eye will have a 'special sparkle' in it, too.

I just saw the poll. Don't forget to vote - AD is counting on all of us to guide him.
HA! Bet that one eye will have an empty socket!

wait till I dob you all in to Neaksis!! ahahaha

Fed the family, Mikey is sound asleep, DD is quietly studying, DS is doing man things ... watching sport on TV with a beer in his hand. Wonder where he got that from?

Me ,,,I'm off to a young mums house to help her with a new baby who just crirs, and cries .... and cries ... and cries
..nothing wrong apaprently just one of THOSE babies according to the male specialist.
I suspect from my observations that some old biddy told her that young babies are spoiled by being picked up when crying.
Load of crock. Don't think young mum has slept for 2 days.

Poor kids (babies mum) mum is way over in the East, like living in LA and mum is in Boston, and she has no one over here but her H in Aussies unit. Got creams and oils and dummy and .. well EVERYTHING!!

TL I may call for help or earplugs anyway bye for now

wait till I dob you all in to Neaksis!!

Don't get smug with me, AW! I left a message on her answering machine already, telling her to go online and see the current status of her nuptial anticipations. I used big words so that if any of her delinquent juveniles hears it, she won't have to endure days of, "What wedding, Neaksis?"


P.S. Email me with more of this baby's symptoms, after you see what's going on. I may have a suggestion. Or two. It's been known to happen...
I'm sure she will be really happy. AD will take good care of her and the kids.

I just hope the rest of you recover.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/06 01:23 AM
Unforunately, the kids will take care of AD, too. Oh boy, will they ever take care of him!

Unforunately, the kids will take care of AD, too. Oh boy, will they ever take care of him!

Who-o-o-o-o-o-oeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Look at that man move. I didn't know _AD_ could run so fast. Does this mean that when she arrives in a few minutes to wrap presents for Gel and Flard that I have to tell Neaksis the wedding is off?

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/06 01:43 AM
Which direction was he running? East or west?

Does he know that if he runs east fast enough and far enough, he will end up in the west?
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/06 06:12 AM

I, um... don't know how to tell you this... but, I can't walk on water!

So, if I go the wrong way, there will be ...

only a brief trail of bubbles.

Besides, I'm back home already. Break it to her gently, OK?

I might as well tell y'all more about my trip.

I ended up staying at the Rescue Mission, but first, I had intended to stay at the "Elegante". It just sounded like a really nice place and I always wanted to stay in a really ritzy hotel at least once.

So, I got a ride over there with a woman on a Harley - who heard me talking about it and said she was headed over there. Funny thing, she kinda laughed when we got there, and rode off. It was, by then, about 1:30am. As I walked into the "Royal Ritz Elagente Motel and Pawn Shop", I noticed that the doorman didn't open the door. It was propped open with a big rock and he was just standing there looking around - up and down the sidewalk. and when I walked into the lobby, there was another doorman on the inside. Or maybe he he was a bellhop, but he didn't look very friendly. I didn't have any bags (having apparently left my bag in that truck that brought me to Toledo), so I guess he was just grumpy that he didn't have a chance at a tip. It was rather chilly in there, and most folk (evem the desk clerk) were wearing coats.

In the lobby, there was a very tall man in a full length fur coat sitting on a green velvet sofa - with too young ladies sitting on either side. Boy! Did those girls look cold! (with the door open and all) I was thinkin' that if that fella was a gentleman, he would have taken off his coat and it would have at least covered those girls' legs. But he just sat there, alternately looking very stern and smiling.

The desk clerk was busy. It took me a moment to figure that out. One side of the lobby was lined with glass cases full of pistols - and 4 or 5 men were walking around looking at them. One was mumbling something to the desk clerk and he was mumbling something back. He didn't even look at me, so I rang the little bell. Then, he looked at me .... like I had better not bother him again if I knew what was good for me.

The girls on the sofa shivered and fidgeted.

The tall man looked at the ceiling.

The inside doorman (or bellhop or whatever) looked through me.

I waited.... and waited... until the desk clerk had sold 6 pistols and there were still 4 or 5 guys milling around. Two or three of those girls on the sofa had gotten up and walked out - but some other girls had sat down in their places. I got to thinking that "The Royal Ritz etc." was probably full and they were too polite to say so... so I walked out too.

At just that moment, a white van drove slowly by with "Downtown Rescue Mission" on the side in big red letters - with a cross on there too. I stared at it, and the driver stopped and backed up, lowering his window. "You need a place to sleep?", he called out. "Yeah!", I replied. By this time, I was beginning to be a bit more flexible. "Come over here and let me look at you.", he said. That seemed strange, but I complied. "Get in", he ordered, jabbing his thumb toward the rear as the side door slid open. I complied. Just down the block, he asked me to get out and help some other customers into the courtesy van. I guess they had to wait a long time, because they were sleeping on the sidewalk! They didn't smell so good either.

So, at last, at a quarter to 3, we arrived.

But, as soon as I got inside, I had to listen to a lecture about "the rules". The rules could be summarized as "don't break any laws", but it took them at least a half-hour to say that. The two guys who came in the van with me were still sleeping, but I think they already knew the rules, so that was OK. The Rescue Mission guys gave me a "kit" containing a stained (but clean) towel, a bar of soap, undershorts, a t-shirt and sweat pants. I tried to tell them that I didn't need that, but they insisted - and insisted that I take a shower. "It's a rule", they said.

At last, I was in a cot, in a room with 7 others - at almost 4am it seemed.

I don't want to bore you, but they woke me up at 7 and made me do "kitchen duty". (One of the rules, apparently). I finally got out of the place at 9:30 - having still only had 3 hours' sleep! (but the morning Bible lesson was nice.)

How I got home is a story for another day.

I'm still exhausted. I'd better sleep. My own bed at home is a very nice thing!

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/19/06 07:02 AM
What a nice bedtime story. Will you tell the rest tomorrow night?



It really depends on how fast you run.
AD I just can't wait, but I supppose I shall have to , for the story of your journey home.
It must of been an adventure ... or at least ... bubbly anyway

I hope Neaksis has no permanent undeviating everlasting psychological emotional or psychosomatic issues from the event, ........ once she learns about it of course
Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/20/06 03:22 AM

It looks like you waited almost 12 hours!

I don't feel much like storytelling tonight.

I've got a bone to pick with T&L and Neak.

I noticed all those not-very-nice things you said about Neaksis - and I want you to know that I think she's the most normal person in her family. So there!

Posted By: _AD_ Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/20/06 03:35 AM

"Can I rent the Mantle of Thor for a few days?", AD asked, smiling inocently. "It makes for easier hitch-hiking. Can you overnight it to me?"

-Mr. NS-to-maybe

and I want you to know that I think she's the most normal person in her family.

Boy, if that isn't "being bleeped with faint praise" (wasn't it Shakespeare?), I don't know what is!

And forget the Mantle of Thor. Hm-m-m-mph. Just as a note to you, though, for future reference--requests first, insults second. It doesn't work so hot when you reverse the sequence.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 12/20/06 05:14 AM
Well, she IS the most normal one of the bunch of us.

It is odd to even use the word 'normal' in the same sentence with 'us'.

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/01/07 09:45 AM
So much to say, so little time.

Violent dreams that betray my not-so-secret thoughts on affairs.

Thoughts and feelings.

Mental status update.

Actions taken to combat mental status, i.e. how to deal with taking the children up into OW territory every school day.

Will have to settle for one dramatic-but-unimportant announcement. Relax Mom, you already heard about it.

I had to wait until it was all taken care of, but there was a C attempt several weeks back.

AJ received a mysterious email, no sender name, topic line "AJ, look here". Inside, it basically said, "AJ, you need to check your wife's email for letters sent to Ms. Gargamel about the money." Or some such nonsense.

AJ was pretty upset already - I was taking the kids to school, so I wasn't home, and didn't have the phone with me that day - then to make matters worse, he tried to forward it to me but it had disappeared. It was not in his inbox, his trash box, or anywhere else. It had completely vanished.

He told me immediately when I called from the pay phone about something else. Yay!!!!!! The not-so-good part was that she had apparently hacked into his email again. Can you say, Needs a Hobby??? (There were several references to MB in his email, but as she hasn't been on here yet stirring the pot, maybe she didn't get it.)

Also, her email address had been unblocked again. *sigh* The whole Kilroy Was Here thing, apparently.

So AJ fixed her. I helped a bunch, since it was a whole lot of work and AJ was gone on the road. He now has a completely new email addy, and I painstakingly transferred all his stuff over for him. And she can kick rocks, since she has no clue what the new address is.

It took him a while to calm down, being very upset wondering what she was trying to pull, but he realized he really had nothing to fear, and also said that part of the reason she kept doing things like that (besides the money), was to keep reminding him that she was there, just in case....

We were both sad to part with that email, which he has had since 2002, and is the address all of his business contacts had. But since she finally got around to sending from email addresses that weren't blocked (I had re-blocked both of hers already), it was easier than always wondering when she was going to send something else from a new email.

So that's the latest in the saga. I didn't want to say anything on here before in case she was reading, so I could get everything out of the old email without interference. And she would just wake up one day and not be able to log in anymore.

Also, the new password is something she would not be able to guess the way she did these other times. Mwaaahaaaahaaaa.

Happy New Year everybody, and I'll be back at some point.

just want to hug you [[[[[[NEAK]]]]]]] .. oh and take that baseball bat out of your danty hands

Not that she does not deserve it but she is not worth the trouble.

I suspect its an attempt to create tension between you & AJ .. cripes if she put half the effort into her own life she would be far happier and not interested in trying to push her way into your families.

In any event have a good trip to WA and safe journey.. and some fun too.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/10/07 06:17 AM
AW - how did you know about the bat? I thought it didn't show as much in cyber-space. I think you are right, too. Mostly she wants to cause trouble, and the rest is gravy. It is also hard coming to all the 2yr anniversaries of this stuff. We are already past the date he started working with her, and by this time 2 yrs ago the EA was already hot and heavy, and he was just a few days from telling me he was leaving.

***setting bat down***

Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/10/07 06:46 AM
....I had to set the bat down before telling about my thinly veiled A-dream. Warning: violent and disturbing content, not for the faint of heart, or anyone under 13.

Normally I am not a violent person. I just felt the need to say that.

So I had this dream. AJ & I had met this really nice guy, a suave businessman sort, who had become friends with us. For most of a summer we had spent time together, meeting socially, playing at the beach.

Then we found out he was some kind of mobster dude. Whatever I saw or heard (don't remember that part, but I could make up some doozies), was bad enough that our friend decided I was no longer to remain on the upper portion of the crust of the planet.

I was terrified when I found out he was planning to kill me, and furious at the same time. How dare he pretend to be our friend while he was plotting my demise? With great daring, I confronted him when he gave his evil minions the order to punctuate me.

His plan was to have me killed on an airliner as soon as it lifted off, then he would personally verify the kill once the plane landed. He came aboard before takeoff, and had his minions sieze and hold me. He gave them the handgun they were to use to shoot me, and clobbered AJ so he would be unconscious and unable to interfere.

Blazing mad, I looked him right in the eye and told him a thing or two. Or three. I told him what a coward he was for not having the guts to do this himself, and if he still liked me enough that he didn't want to see me die, that he shouldn't kill me at all. (Stunning logic, if I do say so myself.)

Chicken that he was, he paced swiftly off the plane, leaving me to my fate.

Which turned out to not be exactly what he was planning for me.

The next section is a trifle hazy. The best I can guess is that my adrenaline took over. AJ was still knocked out, and I couldn't count on him for rescue. Some of the passengers, whom I had not known before, came to my aid, but still it was my own hands that held the chains that I used to manually strangle every last assassin on the plane, one by one.

There was little time to rest before the plane landed again, and our so-called friend came back on board to view my body. Without the least bit of compunction, I used the chains to strangle him, too.

AJ woke up and began helping to organize our escape from the plane, so that none of the other passengers or I would be injured by any further attacks. When we were ready, we cautiously left the plane, huddled together and slipping through the shrubbery in the darkness.

A street light cast just enough light that I could see when the small man rushed at me out of the darkness. It was Kicking, the most dangerous assassin of all. (Total digression, but suddenly I understood the meaning of the last words of several different people earlier in my dream. As they died under mysterious circumstances, with their last breath they tried to form a word. "Ki....kick......kick......." I didn't understand at the time, but at last, almost too late, I did. The man who was assaulting me was a multiple murderer of innocent civilians.)

By this time I was pretty well fed up with assassins. With teeth bared in a hideous snarl, I leapt upon the poor little murderer, tackled him to the pavement, and proceeded to bang his head most enthusiastically against the concrete.

AJ, able to take an active role at last, snapped his (Kicking's) neck with one quick motion, and the last assassin lay dead.

We all piled into a cab and sped away. The sun was rising by this time, and its beams warmed me as I sat in the back seat reflecting on my ordeal. "Will there be more?" I wondered. "Will I have to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life, always alert for the next attack? Or is it over?"

AJ woke me just then, so I was not able to learn what my dream-self had to say on the subject. I would really have liked to listen to her for a little longer - she really seemed to have a handle on things. Talk about a Cape of Power!

Totally weird how my mind works. And how even yet, it is trying to process what happened and make some kind of sense out of it.

Well, it's getting awfully late for somebody who has to get up early, so I'm off to bed. To sleep, perchance to dream.....................
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/10/07 06:49 AM
PS - Thank you, fellow passengers.
I ..........


I know nothing..........nothing.

And if I did, I wouldn't talk.

Early for another trip - or early for normal stuff?


AJ, able to take an active role at last, snapped his (Kicking's) neck with one quick motion,

Well, it would hardly have helped you if he'd snapped his own, now would it? "Wait, dear! I'll save y--......................"

I hope Believer reads this. She's always been impressed with your dreaming ability, and even for you, this is a chart-topper! I especially like the significance of K---icking. You're Freudian even while you're asleep.


P.S. I tried to call you but nobody answered. You weren't supervising another slaughter, were you?
Oh goody dream interpretations ... Madame Le Composer is in

lets see assassins, killing, violence (remind me to NEVER criticize Neaks cooking EVER ) directed to a friend, hiding from them all ...Mmmmm thinking ....

Ok if you dreamed of killing someone, whether intentionally or by accident, it signifies a period of severe emotional stress during which you must make a heroic effort to control your temper. A dream of killing them yourself predicts that you will overcome your obstacles through your own efforts.
cool or what?

Anger is a dream of contrary; the meaning is the opposite of what you might think. If your anger was directed at someone you know, you will benefit materially through a friend;
they have a fast car, no rego, no witnesses, baseball bats .....

When you dreamed you were hiding, you are contemplating some action that you suspect (or know) you may later regret; don't be hasty.(Honestly I didn't mean anything with the baseball bat crack ) To dream of hiding can also suggest you are being secretive concerning a problem that you could use some advice solving . Mmmmmmmm ???? well we're waiting???

AW--I'd tell you my interpretation, but I have to live in the same neighborhood with her...and close my eyes at least once in a while, too!

yes well I thought you would probably have some ! wise decision

however my decision to sit up with a puking Mikey is killing me .. nearly 4.00am poor little guy spat up heaps and has only just stopped coughing ... no its just a cold not whooping cough or anything I had sis check it.

I wanna sleep !!!!!!!!
For future reference (and in an effort to keep large, wooden objects out of Neak's hot little fisties)

Neak, dearest...

Didja know when you hold a baseball bat, it makes you look like you've gained 15 lbs?





AW - good luck with that sleep thing. I vaguely remembered what it was when you mentioned it. 17 years and counting for me.

Really tho...tell mijo that Tia Kimmy is gonna come sing him to sleep if he doesn't nod off soon. He'll do it out of sheer self preservation...

Really tho...tell mijo that Tia Kimmy is gonna come sing him to sleep if he doesn't nod off soon. He'll do it out of sheer self preservation...

OMG Tia Kimmy worked .. hes sofly snoring .. just like his daddy (except he sounds like a D4 road grader )

now if only I can turn the light off without waking him .... nah leave it on

ahhh bed I hear it calling me nighty night all ..tip toeing away from his little royal highness sssshhh
I'm MAGIC! to bottle that???
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/12/07 03:04 AM

Neak <-------looking 15 pounds lighter

I hope poor Mikey feels better. Believe me, I feel his pain.
Having problems logging on to MB tonight. Hope you are doing well, and drive carefully.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/12/07 07:43 AM
I had a lot of problems, too, but I'M HOOOOOOOOOME!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.
great to know you are home & safe Neak! I'm finally able to log on! We probably over loaded the poor server or something.

hope all are well, Mikey has stopped most of the coughing thank goodness ...I'm getting too old for these all nighters but at least I'm on leave until Monday

maybe if I begged and pleaded Aussie would let me stay home as a SAHM you think ?????????????

Mikey is getting a bath by big sister and I think theres more water on the floor then in the bath what with the toys and all the splashing but I'm getting a break so it's ok .... except now I'm coughing.

I just made my special hamburgers for #1 son and his mate, daughter and, myself & Mikey even chewed some before he went thrrrrrrrrrp all over my face parenting is SO much fun
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/18/07 05:02 AM
Well, I triggered really hard today. It was one of the very few times that AJ did it, and he didn't mean to.

We were just talking along happily on the phone, and he said something teasing to me, but it was something he had yelled at me with obscenities added during one of his worst A-rants, and my brain briefly froze up and had to reboot. It is so weird to go through that, to essentially lose consciousness, but still being able to look around, see things, to vaguely register that the sun is still shining, and no everything is not really black.......

The last time I can remember the old psyche crashing so hard was that time in Wally World where the OW's theme song came on. This time it lasted for approximately an eternity, of maybe 15 seconds. Normally AJ pushes a bit when he knows I am upset about something, (perhaps sensing some occasional clammishness), but this time, fortunately he let it go. I will talk to him a little, later on, but was incoherent right at the moment.

So when I squeaked out no, please, let's just talk about something else right now, he let me do it, and I was very thankful. I snapped out of it pretty quickly, with just some emotional bruising I have been trying to self-soothe away, cleaning and keeping busy and being very nice to myself. (Since I am holding down the fort while he goes on a longer trip, it's a good thing the self-soothing is working ok.)

AJ is in TX, stopped just this side of the I-10 shutdown, which I hopehopehope will open tomorrow, since he is still more than 6 hours from his delivery site. Though they will doubtless have realized that any trucks coming in from the west are likely to be delayed.

In fact, he heard on the radio that there's about 2,000 trucks in Fort Stockton, waiting for the road to open. He is in a rest area about a half hour before that, with a microwave, lots of food, and his friend Bill. So he is fine and dandy, for someone who is stuck.

Anyway, I'll be fine, it's just that this came so much out of the blue, when all I had to deal with was low-level agitation at some unpleasant 2-yr anniversaries, and was just so unexpected that I figured I would feel better if I journaled it. And I do.

Oh, by way of humorous news, although I tried for weeks to cancel AJ's old email account, and wrote to Yahoo on his behalf repeatedly, nothing was ever done, and no one ever so much as wrote back.

Being the wonderful, smart, clever, thinking-outside-the-box kind of girl that I am (my arm's starting to break here), I figured out just what to do.

I copied and pasted my book over and over again, until I had a Word document that was over 3,000 pages in length. Then I sent it to his email over and over until I filled it full. Now anything sent from any email address at all bounces - I think of it as Mailer Demons - so a formal rejection will be sent WHEN the pot-stirrer tries to stir the pot. Cuz at least in Yahoo, when you block an address, the email just disappears silently and without a trace, so you don't know they sent it, and they don't know you didn't get it. Now she will know she can't get through. Even if she doesn't want to give up, she is running low on options.

It's just funny to me that my book has become a literal barrier of protection. (And now I can let his email die a natural death, because a curiosity-killed-the-cat person like me won't leave well enough alone, and now that I know nothing will go through, I am not curious, as there is nothing to be curious about. Four months and it will be shut down automatically.)

Oh, and it appears as if Neaksis, AJ, and I will all be going to Boise next month to introduce our kids book to a bunch of Christian bookstore managers. Mom has bravely offered to keep the kids.

Well, I'd better get something accomplished - thanks for listening.
Oh, going to Boise will be fun! I love Boise. And Idaho.

Hope AJ isn't stuck for too long. Although he is doing better than you were when YOU were stuck.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/18/07 05:26 AM

I just got off the phone with him, and he even has the satellite hooked up to his TV.

That's not stuck, that's a mini-vacation. I mean, he can even have hot chocolate with marshmallows! All he needs is a hot tub, and he'll have it made.
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/18/07 05:33 AM
One question I just thought of, are events like the above trigger always from PTSD, or is it sometimes from something else?
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/20/07 07:06 AM
I'm filled with joy at the moment, don't know how else to put it, nothing earth-shattering, just all happy still from a rousing practice session.

Tomorrow I am singing at the little SDA church in Angels Camp (yes, the Angels Camp of frog jumping fame), and was practicing a Steve Green song all week, but am still a hair congested (hack hack snarf) and wasn't sure I could make the high notes. So I had to find something else in a hurry.

Well, my favorite song that the kids sing, I just found the music for it tonight, suitable for solo performance (as opposed to a bunch of kids yelling off-key), and I'm all ready now. Surely not a coincidence.

It is a wonderfully martial Scripture-based song, and one of the verses is from a promise that I claimed countless times during the A. I know there is someone out there tonight who needs to hear this.


So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west and His glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.
Isaiah 59:19

(Or her.)

The trials that we have been/are going through are opportunities for us to witness first-hand the Spirit of the Lord raising the standard high on our behalf. Pray for it! Claim it! It's yours!

Neak <-------
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/24/07 11:31 PM
The exchange on LilSis' thread made me remember this - apologies if I told it before.

After AJ told me he was leaving, but before I found out the real reason why, I had a hunch he felt like he was unappreciated. I must have realized that I had been neglecting to express appreciation in the way that he needed.

So, I began a list of all the things I liked about him, some big things, some little things, some silly, some serious.

I had it quite a ways along, but not finished, when I found out he was cheating. Although I continued to be kind and loving, and to show him that I could change, the list kind of got forgotten in the whole drama.

I did not find out until the A was over that he had eventually found the list in the documents on his laptop, and read it. He considered it a real turning point for him. He hadn't known I felt that way about him, and kept thinking about it.

Surely I need not point out that any moment he was thinking of me, he was NOT thinking of Gargamel.

And, most amazing of all, it was one of the few things that made it through to him, in spite of everything, and he remembered it afterwards. So I know it was huge at the time.
Happy that YOU are happy. Its kinda nice isn't it?

Aussie & I had a um 'discussion' the other night because he did something we had agreed not to do. No biggy BUT all he had to do was discuss the issue as we had previously agreed.
and he was wrong ...... of course
Posted By: Neak Re: A Few Things Can Make It Through the Fog - 01/31/07 06:50 AM
AW - Naturally he was wrong. How is the Clan?

Well, AJ and I had a very long discussion night before last, until oh, 2am or so. All about during the A, dynamics, etc. Some of it I had heard him talk about before, but I had some very enlightening moments, too.

I really need to get busy on my final edit, but I really need to not explode from too much bottling, too. Especially since I already had a lot I had been storing up even before this.

A quick summary of the main issues that have been waiting for a while:

1. A few months ago I finally realized I was still living, acting, and reacting, as if waiting for the other shoe to drop. Maybe because I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is still a work very much in progress, but I can see that this won't work forever, and I am trying to begin putting some faith in the actions I have been watching for almost 2 yrs now.
2. Taking the kids to school every day just down the road from Gargamel's house has been hard. It feels like the whole area is polluted. Well, it is. But there I am, sneaking around MY OWN places where I BELONG, looking over my shoulder constantly in fear of running into her, as if I were the interloper and not her. This, too, is still a work in progress. I am trying to take back my hill, with a "bad" (:)) attitude because that's the only way I can force myself to be courageous.
3. I still find myself thinking of her too much on a daily basis, and little affair-loops running and running in my head. This I am having more obvious success with, having gotten pretty adept by now at re-tracking my thoughts. I just have to catch them, to realize what I am doing, and I can make it stop. This has been quelled to more of an annoyance stage, rather than a bona fide problem.
4. About a week ago I triggered really hard, to the point of feeling like everything had suddenly gone dark, while I was standing in the sunshine. It was such an eerie feeling - being knocked unconscious while still awake. I hated being out of my rigid control of thoughts and feelings for the time it took to shake it off. I would have thought I was past that, but apparently not. Being so rare, this is not a big problem either, like the first 2 are, but was severe while it lasted. And it was about 2 days before I started feeling really normal again.

So we talked. A lot. Although we do discuss infidelity in general on a regular basis, mainly regarding people we know, we don't talk about our own experience with each other nearly as much.

He had mentioned the house he planned to rent, just down the street, before. But this is the first time I knew that he had not only thought about it, filled out an application for it (as I found out eventually), had her offer to pay for it (as I found out even more eventually), but he had put down a deposit on it.

He gave her the money, and she wrote the people a check for it. They kept it on hold for him for almost a month and a half, until he finally went to them and told them he would not be moving in. None of this did I have any clue about, before the other night.

Lots of things about the way he was doing things were very irritating to her. She was pushing him from the start to move in with her. He said no, he had kids and needed his own place for them to be able to come. She said fine, we will get a place together. He said no, I am still married, and I want my wife to be able to come there any time she wants.

(I am laughing as I write this. WS logic is beyond belief!)

Though not happy at all that he wants to live just down the street from me, she is apparently willing to try to live together all as one big happy family, barf. Even in his stupefied state, he understands that this will not work. Ditto the threesomes, of course.

We already knew she was not happy when she found out he was still having sex with me. ("Of COURSE I'm still having sex with her - she's my wife!" Bwaaaa!!!!) But after it had been going on a while, she told him that she knew he was still having sex with me, and that had better change shortly.

She was very confident she could get him to leave me for keeps. She actually told him, "I can make men do whatever I want." Guess she thought she had THE POWER, lol.

He made her mad all the time by refusing to stay the night. (Could it be it made her feel sleazy when he had to sneak off in the middle of the night so he could go crawl into bed with his wife???) It sounded like this was a big source of conflict between them, as was the next item.

For some reason, she had a really hard time getting him to screw her.

AJ has sleep apnea, totally untreated during this time, so he was chronically exhausted already, and then trying to juggle a double life on top of that. He was soooooo tired!!!!

You know, all this time I had considered my efforts in the sex dpt a failure. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't keep him too exhausted to have any sex with her at all. But to listen to him describe his take on my fervent efforts, it had more of an effect than I thought. Apparently it wasn't any last shreds of willpower, or some tiny bit of decency, that kept him from boinking her more than the few times he did; it was sheer inability.

Though I'm sure she tried to mask it somewhat, he was able to sense that she was very very unhappy about his lack of attentiveness in this area. "I'll just have to go take care of it myself." Flounce, flounce. "Fine, you just do that." So it definitely caused conflict, much more than I thought even yet.

Note for balance: although I made the choice to continue sex during the A, I would fully support anyone who chooses not to, as well. In most cases, sex is not the crucial issue, and even in my own sitch, I think it would have still turned out fine without the sex, though I do not regret doing it. And apparently there would have been much more boinking going on without it, too.

It drove her nuts that he wouldn't decide, and yet she had every confidence that once he did decide, he would pick her. If only she had read MB, she would have known better.

Just as a suspicion, I told him I thought she had probably read a number of the TM's I had sent him about our steamy showers, and that was why she kept trying to get him to take a shower with her. He thought I was right, that now it seemed strange how she was always trying to get him in there with her, and he would make all kinds of lame excuses why he didn't need a shower just then, and then go off and leave. Can we all say lead balloon?

I told him while we were talking that he had been a sad disappointment as a boyfriend. He stammered that it was hard having sleep apnea and living a double life. I said yes, and I had done everything in my power to encourage him to be a bad boyfriend, too, and I guess it worked.

Well, she bugged him, too. All was not hunky-dory in Fantasyland. The drinking we knew about, and it's always the first thing he lists when he talks about the things he didn't like about her.

Now that he can see it, he hates the manipulations and how she tried to push him to do things. The housing is only one example.

She kept on him about the divorce papers, which he at one point started to fill out, then stopped. She oh-so-sweetly offered to fill them out for him. Such concern, such willingness to help. It makes him angry now, how eager she was to break up his family. (Yes, he knows that he was trying to break up his family too, but he was certainly not eager.)

One thing he COULDN'T STAND about her was how messy she was.

This floored me.

I am not always tidy either, however hard I try. And I do try. But I am not super-organized, and I have a Dervish, so it's an uphill battle. If I try really hard, I can usually keep three rooms at a time nice and clean. Right now I'm doing a deep clean of my bedroom, and already the living room has a light dusting of clutter. The dining room has a heavy dusting. By hook or by crook, it will be gone by the time AJ gets home.

All this time I have assumed that part of her attraction was peace, quiet, and clean. I mean, how could you not have kids, not have a husband, and not have it all clean? Sparkly and shiny?

This kind of goes along with the waiting for the other shoe to drop thing. All this time, I have kept cleaning and cleaning frantically (if not effectually), always trying to outrun the spectre of what she must have been like. Always worried that if things weren't perfect he might decide he wanted her, instead. Always fearing that if I didn't measure up, all my hard work of the last 2 years would be wasted. And always failing, never having everything clean at once, always having something left undone to fan the fears.

All this angst, and she was a slob?????? Messy house, messy car, he tells me now!!!!! Couldn't stand it, he tells me now!!!!!!!!!!

He had said something to her several times, and finally toward the end, no doubt sensing him slipping away and trying to do anything and everything to draw him back, she cleaned up for a while. AJ said her roomie/XBF was really mad because she even made HIM clean his stuff up.

Don't get me wrong. I am not taking this as permission to just let everything go. Clearly tidiness is very important to him. But I can also see clearly, for the moment at least, that I don't have to be perfect to keep him, either. And who knows? Maybe not being so frantic will mean I will work more effeciently. Hey, a girl can hope.

That was such a freeing thing to learn!!!!!!! I can be good enough, and I am good enough. (Repeat 3 times.)

He told me that she had been nice to talk to, and there had been some times during R when he missed that, and wished he could talk to her again, but that when that happened he put thoughts of her aside, and really focused on clinging to me and thinking of me.

Of course I wished he had told me at the time, and told him so, but was also glad he had told me now, and told him that, too. I asked if he still thought of her much now, and he said hardly ever, and when he did it was generally in connection with the money.

I warned him that he couldn't assume he wouldn't be tempted ever again, and that any time there was a low spot, that Satan would be there to try and tempt him and stir up those feelings again. We made a mutual agreement that he will talk to me at the time if it happens again, and I will talk to him at the time if I am having a hard time with something. (No surprise I still need to work on that one.)

He apolgized with such remorse for hurting me like that, I nearly cried. It's not that his earlier apologies aren't meaningful, but the more time goes by, the more understanding he has of the devastation he caused, along with his willing accomplice.

Also, he told me the things I mentioned on LilSis' thread, about the strong pull of hist