I have been a lurker since about december 07. YOu all have helped me soooo muuuch.when I feel overwhelmed i go on mb to get my head straight again.

I have been with my husband since 1990. Married since 1996. Most of my life I remember being depressed but it would be a kind of up and down thing.I would always snap out of it. I drank a lot.Me and my H were happy. I wasnt a drunk, it just seemed to make me even out. My H didnt even know i drank so much.

IN 2000 after 2 yrs of trying I found out I was pregnant and immediately stopped drinking and started eating. which did not even out my moods. I had a colicky baby depression and post partum {my drs tell me now, at the time I didnt know what was goin on}. I never completely came out again. when my son was 6mos drs found a tumor in my chest next to my heart. I basicly had to have my chest cracked and a tumor the size of a fist was removed. my H stayed home and it took me about 6mos before I could pick him up again.

By the time my son was two I think the post partum went away but I was still depressed. I basiclly just took care of my son the best I could. I didnt go out. I stayed in bed. I barely showered.

I was in now what I describe as a coma. Just focusing on my son. Yeah, me and my H werent having too much sex. I was a mess.
and all my H noticed was that we werent having enough sex. so when my son was four he begged a coworker to have sex with him.He worked with her since my son was born. I guess they fell in love. He said he talked to her about me and she told him maybe I was a lesbian. NOt maybe something is wrong she needs help. she knew he was married with a son.

Well any way one day I saw on the computer a screen aol instant message with the screen name. and eventually by phone records and such found out her name. I confronted my H and He said "Yeah I have been cheatin on you for two years what took you so long to find out" and "I dont love you anymore I love someone else". Devestating.

He said we werent having too much sex and he found some one else. He didnt know I was depressed. He just thought I changed and got lazy. I had a breakdown. Begged for another chance cried and cried and cried. He gave ME another chance. said he wouldnt talk to her broke up w her and said to me "are you happy i just lost the best thing that ever happened to me" HE made appointments and drove me to them to seek counseling for me. something he should have done a long time ago.

THen one day i called her on the phone and told her to stop talking to him we were trying to work things out. She said she wasnt talking to him. I hung up then she immediately texted my H and said I called swearing and threatening her. My H was pissed He said that now she was mad at him. I said I didnt swear or threaten. He said he didnt beleive me and I ruined my chance with him. Well long story short I tried to commit suicide
that day. I woke up in the Hosp with him there sayin"JUst tell them I love some else, tell them I dont love you anymore". Well he stayed until I was done with in and outpatient counseling.

Ofcourse snuck out in the middle of the night and I was devestated. He said he missed her. He said he would move down in our basement so he could live w our son but come and go as he pleased. I couldnt handle that. He said "why you have been living with this for two years" Yea i didnt know you were cheating every friday night he was going out w his "friends".I was happy he was getting out.I didnt realize what he was doing.

I then told him to leave or me and my son would. He left and moved into his bros. empty condo down the street.

So I have been basically a basket case ever since.eating more and more and more. I feel my life is basically over. I just give my son the best life I can. He is why I am still on this earth today.

Welcome to marriagebuilders.

I hope that you have stopped drinking completely and are getting meds or counseling for the depression.

I think you must work on your own problems before you attempt to fix your marriage.

Thanks believer.

Yes I havent drank in eight years. I just feel like I could never stop at one and my son is the most important thing to me.

I am on meds and I do feel a huge difference. But it is hard to tell how good the meds are working because Of what happened with H; I naturally have depression from that. I am still having an extremely hard time wrappin my head around this.

I felt depressed and worthless before and I feel now my H confirmed that I was just trash to be thrown away.

HE has told me he never wants to be with me again. so I just have to find a way to accept it. which I dont know how long that will take. I am in Plan b since he moved out in April.

He wanted the whole family thing, you know family functions, dinner together but to just sleep at the condo and still see her.YOu know "friends". which I think I would have done If I didnt find MB.

He actually told me he is too young to have to deal with a "sick" person. MY doctor told me what I have is perfectly treatable with meds and therapy. But I just have to get over the hump of being dumped by the man I love most in this world.{well except for my little man, myDS}

Our mutual friends said when I started not to go places with my H and w/ them. they told my Hubby that Maybe I need some kind of help. but he kept telling them I was fine.

I did all of the exposing to everyone in dec. All of our friends and his family think what he did was rotten. they are all supporting me. so basically at least as of now he doesnt hang around here with her. she lives w her mother and her son about an hour from my home. I just dont know how i would handle seeing them together.

My MIL has been an enourmous support for me and I for her. Her H {my FIL} passed away in April. Another blow to me since I have never had to deal with a death so close to me. I had known him for 18 Years.

So she and I are both alone and support each other.

Dump him and protect your son from his POS father. Get some help for yourself.

I am getting help now. and just for the record I never attempted suicide before this. I just felt at the time I could not deal with the future. I was overwhelmed and needed the excruciating pain to go away.

I felt that my son would be better of without a "sick" mother to quote my H. but before I passed out I got a vision of my son goin to school tellin everyone his mom was dead. I could not do that to him. I would just be dumping my pain on him. so I ran for help and passed out right then and there. the doctor said I would have died if I had not gotten help.

I am so grateful I am here for my son. I know now that I am a good mom and that he needs me more than ever.

He has a selfish [censored] for a father.

Affairs almost always end. But put most of your effort into making a good life for you and your son.

Can you support yourself financially? Are your finances protected?

And I just want to thank you all so much for taking time to post. You cant even imagine how much you have all helped me.

things that my WH said to me made me think that I was going crazy.

Like that he never loved me(I have beautiful cards from him up until six years ago)He said he doesnt think they were from him. I tricked him into marrying me(we dated for six years).he hasnt been happy since my son was born, then since we got married then He doesnt remember ever being happy with me. We didnt have sex on our honeymoon. I tricked him into having my son. He always wanted a family. I gave him no other choice but to cheat. I changed him into a cheater. I was in the same crappy marriage, no sex no attention. I had opportunities to cheat but I loved my H I could never have done that to him. I just concentrated on my son and he concentrated on himself.He said that its sad that I am making my son chose sides by setting up times he is w his dad and times he spends with me. H did that.

I mean these things killed me and the way i was feeling i beleived them and thought maybe I was delusional. I felt who would ever want to be with me. I am such a horrible person.
but knowing that other WH have skewed the past made me realize what he was doing. he has to justify what he has done. HE is delusional.

As of right now he just left everything. His check is direct deposited and I pay the bills. He said he doesnt want a divorce because of the money it will cost. He wants his son to stay in our house with me. He wants it to stay like this. HIs mother told me not to divorce him and keep letting him pay for everything and if he wants it let him initiate it. but its always in the back of my mind that I will get broadsided again.I am just not strong enough for all this right now.

I do have a question about christmas. my son has been asking me if his dad will be here when he opens his presents in the morning. I mean I dont know if i can handle WH here. what do I do?

Sounds like he was gaslighting you pretty badly. Don't even think about all of that hogwash.

He is taking care of the bills now but you should probably start squirreling some money away, if you haven't already. Just to be on the safe side.

Have you talked to an attorney?

Charlotte

havent talked to an atty yet. should I?

If hubby doesn't want a divorce, then don't start divorce procedures.

Sounds like he WAS gaslighting you. That is very common.

I suggest working on getting stronger, and let him continue paying for everything, especially if a financial agreement would give you less.

You should talk to an attorney and see what your options are in case you need protection for your finances. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to file for divorce.

Charlotte

I just wanted to go a little more in depth w my story. I keep reading about plan A and how hard it is for the BS. I just wanted to show how much worse it is when u just let it all out.

The four mos. before i found MB were sheer Hell. THe day I found out I was in a daze and begged my WH to give me another chance, since he convinced me the reason for his A was all the stuff I didnt do. He reluctently said he would. No NC established so I assumed he stopped talking to her.
Things were going Ok Pretending that nothing happened. No A talk. We spent more time together, talked Etc. I initiated sex he didnt want it. This made me feel horrible. There was a very short amount of time before he decided this wasnt working. There was nothing to save. It was too late.
Now I begged him to stay. I said he could keep seeing her and stay home. Please I need you, Dont leave me. I was desperate not to lose him altogether. He said OK. Then one of many times He was out with OW I lost it. I called him sobbing telling him to come home now I am going to have a nervous breakdown, I cant deal with knowing he was out w OW. He came home two hours later. I went to a hotel for two days and I am not exaggerating (sp) i cried the whole time. sobbed and sobbed. I thought about killin myself. came home to him still seeing OW. I sobbed constantly, didnt eat, I drove my son to school crying and picked him up crying.

Until now I begged my WH not to tell anyone because i was embarrassed, he agreed (i thought for me, but now i know WH want the secrecy). but now I called his mother and told her her son had been seeing OW for two years and doesnt want to be w me anymore. she was stunned. all this time WH father was gravely ill and we didnt know how much longer he would be with us. His mom and dad begged him to fix his family and leave OW. I cried constantly and he consoled me occasionally saying "I am so sorry I never meant to fall in love with her" I am now so sick of hearing this, I heard it sooo much. that was his favorite apology.

Well now after about 2 mos. of my sobbing constantly and him still seeing OW. He came home one day and said "are you happy I broke up with her, you ruined the best thing that ever happened to me". "Ill just stay here and be miserable with you." I was okay with that. He took me to a shrink, He drove me, made appts. I was crying in the waiting room of the drs. office. I was crying in the drs. office. I didnt know how to stop. and he made sure every time that he told me "You dont really love me, you just think that you do. just make sure you tell the dr. that". I was put on medication.

Then one day I found out he texted her. I confronted him, He said he missed her. He said that was the only time he contacted her. Then he worked OT one night and I didnt believe him. The next day I called her from his cellphone and she answered "Hey how you doin, miss you" I just said Why are you answering WH phonecalls if you are not talking to eachother. I said we are trying to work on our M please stop talking to him. she said she knew that and wasnt talking to him. I said how could you do this to another woman with a son. she said he told me this and this etc. was wrong in your marriage. and that you didnt care the marriage was already over. so I told her he lied to us both. and that was it. Hung up.

She immediatly called my husband and told him i called her yelling and swearing(lies) and she was pi**ed. He said to me "thats it i am done, you dont trust me and you should have never called her. Now shes mad at me. YOu ruined your chance with me." (why would he care if he wasnt seeing or talking to OW.)I told him that we justed talked there was no yelling involved she shouldnt be mad. He said I was a liar...That was it for me. He believed OW over me that he has known for 18 Yrs. Me his wife. I was devastated. I ran out to my car to just get away. I was like a crazywoman. He wouldnt let me go, He said He wouldnt let me drive while I was acting crazy.

He called his parents. His poor sick dad came and said son you need to fix this this is your family, stop your affair and take care of your wife. I heard him telling his mother "thats it she ruined any chance of us being together, I dont need her". Well that was the point in my mind that i said to myself "im done, I cant deal with this pain, Its too much. I cant deal with being an outsider in my own marriage." I calmed down and his parents left. He left without sayin a word. Then I left with every intention to kill myself. I had a foolproof plan (I wont go into details now.)

any way at the last minute when I felt myself going. I ran and found someon and told them to call 911. I couldnt do this to my son. I passed out. I woke up in the hosp. with WH saying "tell them I dont love you anymore, tell them I love someone else" (I found out later he said this because he didnt want the drs. to think i was crazy and that there was a reason i tried to kill myself, thoughtful huh). Well anyway 3 days later i was forced to go to the PSYCH. ward for a week. THe only things i remember is being strip searched and my mom, me ,DR and WH at a meeting. My husband told my mother he met someone else and wasnt sure if he wanted to be w me anymore. This was the first my mom had heard of all this.

Then I got home and had to go to outpatient care. My husband was very supportive and nice. I took this as he was staying w me (I was in denial, wishful thinking). At the end my two weeks of outpatient WH announced that he was going to move downstairs so he could help me and see OW. I told him I needed him so bad to help me thru this could he just lay off her (no pun intended) for a few months until im stronger. He said okay.

At this point for some reason he decided to have sex w me. I was so happy. I found MB. Plan A. I felt like i was winning him back. then a few weeks later he said he was going to move downstairs, he said he didnt love me anymore. I just already felt low, and now it was like he tried me out again and decided i was unloveable. I tried to hug him and he would hold up his arms. He made me feel like I had the Plague. This devastated me again. Rollercoaster. THen he snuck out w OW again in the middle of the nite.

I told him forget about downstairs get out. He said "no i'll stay here you need me" (what a joke). I said its either you leave or me and our DS will move in w my mother.He said he wanted to help me and be my friend. I said how could I be friends with a liar.why cant you even give me a hug. He said I dont want you to get the wrong idea. He left. and plan B began. I did exposure to her family and his.

Talk about mental abuse. So anyway just telling it like it is doesnt effect a WS when they are deep in the fog.

me and WH text sometimes to confer about my DS, like schedules and stuff.

Now my WH texted me to go see his therapist with him.
He doesnt understand why I am pretending he is "dead", He thinks I am not facing up to what is going on. He keeps saying he really wants to be my friend. :RollieEyes:

I know this isnt a good idea if I want to save the marriage, so I replied that i dont see the point in therapy unless it is to save the marriage.

My therapist keeps asking to bring my WH in also.
And I have my MIL saying if I am nice to him I might have a chance to get him back. Because me not facing him makes him go to the OW.

I have SIL telling me that I need to eventually talk to him for DS sake. She supposedly had the same thing happen to her in her 20's and she has three kids by WXH.

I just am on the fence if I really even want to save the M anymore. This Plan B feels great now. and it took me so long to get there. I try to explain to everyone that not talking to him helps me and it is not because I am angry, It is because it hurts. Which is absolutely true. I know what going to therapy will do to me.

Its just so hard when everyone is putting pressure on me and making me feel that i am being childish and selfish in Plan B.

If any one has time could you please support my Plan B. I know why I am doing it, but you guys are the ONLY ones that understand and I feel like right now, I just need a little reassurance from people that understand me.

When everyone else seems so against me.

Thank you

Stillhere:

I've read your thread. So sorry you've been through all of this.

I understand that it is difficult when people are pressuring you to come out of Plan B. In my case, my friends don't pressure me to come out but do pressure me to finish off my D and get over it. They really don't like it when I talk about wanting to stand for the marriage. They can't understand why I would want to "go back". I keep telling them I DON'T want to "go back"; I want to "go forward" with my husband if and only if he wants to work on recovering the marriage...otherwise I don't want the marriage.

But - I don't need to pressure _myself_ - there's enough going on that does that. I've learned that I don't have to make these decisions today. I'll make them when I'm ready. And I trust that I'll know when I'm ready.

And so will you! Plan B is really here FOR YOU. It's not about him. It sounds alot to me like the people pressuring you are more about him and less about you. Maybe you need to find some new friends who support _you_.

I don't really know if you should care about what your WH's counselor wants, but I am a bit concerned when you say that your counselor asks you to bring in WH. Have you explained the "harley method" to her/him? Have you suggested that the therapist come to the MB site? Maybe it would help him/her to understand that you really are working a PLAN - not just refusing to talk out of spite or fear.

Did you give WH a PB letter? Would it help if you shared that with your counselor, or with your MIL? Maybe then they would better understand why you are setting boundaries, and that your WH can resume contact with you if he meets your conditions. Perhaps you can explain to them that it is not you that is refusing to communicate, it is he who is insisting that you don't have the right to set boundaries or define conditions you're willing to put up with. And that you just don't agree with him - and that you would appreciate their support in that regard.

Just ideas.

Hang in there. I'm in Plan B and even though it's really hard for me sometimes I know that it is absolutely the only way I'm ever going to come to back to health. The sentence in this post that jumped out at me was when you said that Plan B is doing great for you. That's what matters.

- M

Hey, I'm Plan Bing too. And stuff your H has said to you is the same stuff my WH has said to me -- including the suggestion that we stay married and he keep OW on the side. Before MB and when D-day was so fresh, I agreed to ANYTHING to keep him. That's part of the denial and bargaining process. You are normal!!

Keep up the Plan B and stay strong for your son. I'm doing the same for my 3 kids. And stay dark. Dark, dark, dark.

And I agree about finding friends who support you and your views. I avoid those who mean well but push for the D. Let WH do the dirty work if he wants one. Mine, also, is paying all the bills for now. My focus is, and always has been on, keeping my family and marriage together. However, it will no longer be at any cost.

You will grow stronger as you learn more about affairs. You are not alone.

Miriam:
I am sorry your in the Infidelity club with me.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my story and post. I have not told my MC about MB. I dont know why i havent, but I am going to. I think it is because she is focusing on my long term depression and she thinks that talking w him will help with that and not so much for saving the M. And Ill bring her a copy of the PB letter also. That way we will be on the same page.

My MIL is sicilian right off the boat, so I think she is just set in her ways. But she has been a real rock for me in other ways so I couldnt bear not to see her. I dont even think she will even understand the PB letter. but ill keep working on her.

Thank you for your input and support.




Holyheart:

I am sorry that you are in the same situation with me. With THREE kids.It stinks. Yeah I agree with letting him do the dirty work. If he wants a D then he can initiate it. I also figure I am not really ready for one yet, dont know if ill ever be.

than you for responding, It feels better to be reassured by people in the same boat as me.

Yeah some stuff missing on my thread, but anyway...cant sleep cuz I keep havin dreams of WH and OW (I have never even seen her but I guess I have a picture in my mind, I know she has dark hair, I am a blond)..

You know everyday I just feel like i am trying to convince myself that I am doin okay and everything will get better. Do any of you feel like you will just never be okay again. I just spend my time pretending to be okay. I mean I have my DS so I have to live in this house with all the good and bad memories (dont want to uproot DS). I live in fear of seeing WH with OW. Or seeing someone I havent seen in a while saying "hows WH" not knowing what happened...

I just feel that I will never trust anyone again...or cant even think about being with anyone, because I just dont want to have to start all over. Yet I am just feelin so lonely and I miss havin that feelin that someone had my back, someone cared about what happened to me...and now he could care less if I die or not.

And I just feel that my future is just gonna be more pain, I mean whats gonna happen next, divorce, he gets remarried or moves in with her...There just seems to be no end in sight for this, Ya know...everytime I think I am moving forward, I have dreams of him, or I accidentally see him driving by and I just go back almost to square one... IDK I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself....Guess I just needed to get it out

I just feel like my WH hates me so much that he would move out of the house away from his own son and risk losing everything just to get the he&& away from me...Its just a sickening emotionally debilitating feeling and I am sick of feeling it...

Oh well guess I am just rambling cuz I am so tired and should be sleeping right now...Gonna go try to sleep now and just hope that I have no more dreams...

Just got my DS' christmas list...there is of course a nice list of toys...but then at the end he said what he really wants is a magic piece of coal to give to his father so that he forgets who OW is and moves back home...he said if he can only get the coal and no toys that that is okay...he will give up all his toys for his father to come home...

And the worst part is he kept tellin me not to worry because he really thought that WH was coming home for christmas...now I know why he kept thinkin it...I dont know what to say to him I dont want him to get his hopes up....See what happens when you tell your kids Santa is magic(DS wanted to know how Santa got everywhere to give toys to all the kids in the world), lies come back to bite me on the a$$... UGHHHH, I am so stupid!

Umm..I wish I could say something all-knowing and wise, here, Still. Just wanted to give you a {{hug}}

Give your son's list to your H and let him deal with it.

I don't have time now but you have not done your son a disservice by telling him about Santa Claus. I am in my 60's and still believe in Santa Claus because the spirit is within all of us, which is how the "old fella" gets around so well.

Take care of yourself. You still sound very depressed and you really need to continually monitor it and address it.

God Bless,

JL

((((((Still)))))))

Man, that breaks my heart. This is so hard on our little ones. And they do not deserve this.

Thanks for the hugs guys, i needed them...and I am passing them on to DS...

I think I will give the list to my WH...I know its not gonna do any good though, but at least like you said. JL, it puts it on him and not so much on me....

It just kills me though...I hate this...Christmas is my favorite time of year and My DS is 8 and its still a great age for him for Christmas, ya know?

....and DS is so sweet, I mean of course he loves toys, but he is a very family oriented kid, he loves his family together at the holidays, he loves to have family parties. His dad not living at home just hurts him....and WH has been buying him toys like crazy since he left (and he never believed in toys, he had very few as a child himself) and he doesnt realize, his boy just wants his dad home more than all the toys in the world.....

I know this because DS tells me constantly, I ask him if he talks to his dad about it and he says not as much anymore.....I guess talking to WH didnt make any difference before why would it now....

Anyway, thanks ...no one understands like you guys.....I just know that this little boy is so excited cuz he really thinks his dad is comin home and I just want to punch WH in the face to knock some sense into him....

And believe it or not those MB hugs help more than anyone could know....

Well, here's another....

That is so sad for your DS. I just don't understand how these waywards can do this to their children.

I know how your mother's heart breaks for him, I've watched my sweet DD16 go through much of the same for the past 3+ years.

YOU are the best gift you can give him - THAT is within your control. Love him, hug him, hold him, talk with him, be there with him......

I can't tell you how much I beat myself up and tried to compensate for WxH. Eventually coming to the reality that I was only inflicting MORE pain on myself and never being able to really accomplish what I was trying to do. I could not BE him, therefore, I could not ACT for him. KWIM?

IMHO, I think you should give your WH his son's list. If he's anything like my WxH, he'll act like I influenced DD's reaction to him. In some far away place in their minds and hearts, though, I think it connects.

Take care,
Fox

Yeah, thanks fox....and you are right, I know that my WH will blame me for this somehow....I actually cannot wait to see how he blames me this time....Yeah, OUR influence but they really never think our kids are influenced by THEIR having an affair and leaving, UGHHH!!...They are all pretty much alike, huh?

Still,

Do you know the best gift you could give your son? You could give him a smiling, happy, and optimistic...Mom. You didn't do anything wrong with regard to your H's affair. But, you do need to look to the future because that is where this little boy needs to be looking. He needs someone in his life that smiles, enjoys him, and can teach him how to handle the tough things in life.

Give him the gift of you, and quit worrying about your H and his actions. He can try to blame you, but you simply look him in the eye, and say "I accept none of the blame for your bad decisons and behavior." And then walk away.

Take control of your life and enjoy it especially in this coming season. I obviously cannot tell you what is in your future, but I can tell you it will likely be better if you face it with optimism.

Please think about this and hang in there. Enjoy that young man, he sounds like a real keeper.

God Bless,

JL

Well, not all, no...Some do get it, repent and do everything in their power to make amends, but yes, you are right that active waywards are all alike - selfish and uncaring...it's so incredibly sick and cruel...

I'm so sorry to hear that you and your son are suffering, Still...I don't know what it is about you, but I tell Mr. W all the time how much I like you and wish I could fix everything for you...Something about you in particular just tugs at my heartstrings - in a good way... Could be because I have suffered in the past from depression and your posts regarding your depression are so very poignant to me...You know I've found the only thing that ever helped me with depression was action - MelodyLane must have told me a million times that "feelings follow actions" before it finally sunk in...I would tell her how bad I felt and how I stayed in my pajamas all day long and she remained constant in telling me that if I was waiting for some magic feeling to come and overtake me that I would be waiting forever...I would tell her I needed to take "babysteps" and she would tell me "NO, the only way is to throw yourself back into life"...Turns out, she was right...Easier said than done - I KNOW! But I have found that investing in life IS the magic feeling...I know that you want a different life than what is currently before you, and unfortunately we don't always get to pick the exact circumstances, but what I do know is that life waits for no one and that whether you live yours or not, the world will continue to turn and your life will continue it's journey...What is it my dad used to say? Oh yeah, "Life is about 10% how you take it and 90% what you make it"...My father had Bipolar Disorder, and suffered from some extreme depression, so he wasn't just using a cute catch phrase without really understanding the depth of it's meaning...

Still, what does a typical day look like for you now? Let's go about seeing how you can get your actions to change your feelings...I would be glad to help you in any way that I can...((((((Still))))))

Mrs. W

You know me too well, guys.....I am switching my dep meds right now, so that isnt helping me...but I know I need to do more for myself.

Right now my Dr does tell me I need to focus more on me and that will help DS in the long run...I am just having a hard time right now...The holiday season usually makes me very happy and this year I am trying very hard to stay upbeat for DS esp...but this Christmas list thing just through me for a loop, It hurt me bad...Just knowing that no matter what I do DS still wants his dad home and I knowing that it is not gonna happen...

That little boy is my life right now, without him I just would not be here...and I know that is not good...I volunteer at his school a lot and I play with him when he is home, I hang out with my MIL and help her out with stuff ...The other day it was my day to spend with DS and he said he wanted to be with his dad, he missed him, so of course I said he could call his father and have him come and pick him up....

But after he left I just cried and cried...It just hurts me that now I have to lose precious time with DS because my WH doesnt want to be with me anymore...I know logically its ridiculous, but it just hurts....So my Dr tells me of course that I need to do more stuff for me...

The baby step thing makes so much sense...with the baby steps its just so easy to go back a baby step instead of forward and I seem to be doin that a lot lately..tellin my friends I dont feel like goin out a nite or two then it turns into months that I have not been with my friends.....I cant believe that you guys can tell this stuff from my posts before...It just makes me realize how depressed I really am right now....

I truly just feel right now the day I tried to take my life, I truly Died...and the only person that is left is mom, that is the only reason I stayed here, for DS...so everything I do is for him, ya know???? I want him to have the best life possible and when I see WH screwing it up it makes me sad....

Oh well I kindof rambled, sorry....Thank you guys so much for your kind words...I am just hopin that these meds kick in soon....

Ah Still, it's only really obvious to those of us that have been there - my empathy meter goes off the charts many times when I read your posts - I don't always say something, but I do pray for you - and talk about you with Mr. W [if your ears ever burn, now you'll know why! ]...There is something familiar in your posts to me - even though I am not a BS - I still get you regarding depression - the weight gain thing - I get that big time - last year I did something about that though, and I can't tell you what a world of difference that made for me - then I also organized and cleaned our house like it's never been done before - I began reaching out to other ladies at dd's school too - I go A LOT more places now - All these positive actions have changed my feelings in ways I can't begin to describe - See, Mel was RIGHT, feelings absolutely do follow actions...I almost said something regarding the "feelings follow actions" deal on the thread for BSs that didn't recover their marriages, but I sure didn't want to step on any toes there - my intent would have been nothing but good, but still, kwim? I just noticed that those that undertook positive actions had their feelings follow those actions...I'd love to see that kind of healing power take hold of all BSs everywhere...Feelings following actions is universal, whether WS, BS or neither - I've watched this happen in my life now so often...In the affair even - when a wayward focuses all their actions on the OP their feelings naturally follow, yes? Then in our recovery, I watched in awe as my feelings for Mr. W returned as my actions were focused on him...Same deal with weight loss and then cleaning/organizing...I've lived it - that IS the "silver bullet"...If we could bottle it and sell it we'd be rich...the hard part is taking the first steps, but once you do, the rest follows very easily...

I wish we lived near each other...I'd be there to hold your hand...We are in Michigan - you aren't in Michigan are ya?

Mrs. W

No, I live in Mass...

Thank you so much Mrs. W for taking interest in me though...your advice does make a lot of sense...Kindof like God helps those who help themselves...You are right, Iknow the weight thing would help a lot if I took control of it...it just seems like food is my only friend right now ya know?

I just gotta figure some way to get myself out of this rut.

Well bummer - Mass, huh? I've always wanted to visit Boston...I have a cousin who lived there for a few years - in Winchester...

You know what's interesting? All the stuff about feelings following actions is really in the Bible - so yeah, it is kinda like the God helps those who help themselves thing I guess - We need only follow His advice - to serve - to invest in life - it is doing that that feeds the spirit, rather than the flesh - a real struggle for us mere mortals...The flesh craves things that are bad for the spirit...Pretty simple formula to get out of it really, NOT easy, just simple...

Yes, I know what you mean about food...I sooooooooo know unfortunately! I do know that I'm much happier since getting a grip on that though...Yet another thing that is simple, but sooooooooooo not easy...a matter of making up your mind and shifting your thinking...ARGH!

Still, you feel free to email me anytime...I can hold your hand from a distance...I have had wonderful friends from here do that for me, and I would gladly pay it forward...I'm here...

Mrs. W

Mrs W you are so kind, thank you...I just may take you up on that Email offer...

Okay, I was just needing some opinions on this....My WH and I have worked out a schedule for seeing DS that we have been using since he moved out April 2008

....I am kind of lax about it in that if my DS wants to see WH on one of my days i of course let him...If DS wants to call his father, I say you dont need permission from me just call him, its his father...If WH has a day off and asks if he can pick of DS from school on my day with DS I let him, because I know DS would like it, not for WH's sake...

Anyway today is my day with DS...now WH has been callin all day (I am sure to talk to DS) and I have the ringer off so DS cannot hear it...now if DS wanted to talk to WH all he has to do is call him so I am not stopping DS from talkin to his father, I just figure DS and I are together and to inturrupt(sic) my time with DS to let WH talk to him just seems unfair to my time with DS...Do ya get what I am sayin? If WH wanted to talk to DS so bad he shouldnt have left, IMHO.

Now my question is...is this petty of me, or wrong of me?...I kinda feel guilty for WH sake because I know he misses DS...I am just not sure if I am being unfair to DS or not? And I in no way want to damage what relationship is left betw WH and DS, what are your opinions?

Okay back to DS, he was playin with the neighbor for a little while but now its dinner time...very important mommy time. And I am still keepin the ringer off for now...

He chose to leave. Today is YOUR time with Ds. Enjoy it.

Thanks for responding Cat, that is the way I felt too, so you sayin it too makes me feel good about my decision...

I think you're fine. He did choose to leave, and it is your scheduled day with DS... you're not preventing DS from calling, and if your X misses him... well, that's the natural consequence of his behavior.

I wouldn't do it all the time, but sometimes that interruption just isn't welcome.

Anna, UGH that is OW name, you wouldnt do it all the time though...I was kinda thinking of doin it from now on cuz he calls all the time...Do you think it is wrong to do it all the time?

You know what the thing is with me...and I know that maybe this is wrong but IDK...WH just calls DS all the time..so I am with DS having a good time then WH calls, which then puts WH in DS' mind and then occasionally DS will say "can I go out to dinner with WH" or something like that and I will always say yes, unless dinner is on the table...

OR WH will call before bedtime and DS' who wasnt even thinkin of WH will start crying and sayin he misses WH being home...its hard for me and I know that it is being selfish on my part...because some of it is that I feel WH wants to see DS in all his spare time and I usu wont deny that to DS if he ask and usu he will want to see WH more than me (and that hurts too). I feel WH should suffer the loss more...

SO its like I am not really denying DS access to WH but DS wont know all the times that WH tries to get in touch with him so am I denying that...Do ya know what I am TRYIN to say? I dont know if i am explaining it well....

I also feel WH has takin so much time away from me and DS because of HIS affair and moving out that it just doesnt seem fair to me...But I know that I should not the issue it should be DS...


I really just want to shut off the phone whenever it is my time with DS, and if DS wants to call WH of course I will let him...Last nite was so nice, because I turned the phone off and dinner and bedtime was nice and no crying...and DS never asked to call WH out of sight out of mind I guess....Maybe WH will feel the pain of his choices more if he realizes that DS can go a day without talking to him at all....so I dont know if that is a bad thing for me to do or not...

I'll tell you what I always tell my D19. Just tell the other person the truth. You will get so much more that way, than trying to find ways to achieve your goal without being honest.

Tell XH that you love that he wants to be so involved with son, but that you are still wounded, and the time that you are scheduled to be with DS fills your soul back up, and it really hurts to have it tangled up with phone calls from XH. So you are asking him to consider your feelings on this and NOT call when he knows that you and DS have plans.

Give him the benefit of the doubt that he will man up and do the right thing.

Of course, once you've done that, and he still persists, THEN you can have every right to turn the phone off. But you'll know you did the right thing first.

Good advice, Cat. I will text WH the way you worded it and go from there...Thank you.

I understand your thoughts on WH interrupting your time with DS. My thoughts are to shut the ringer off except for a certain span of time when WH can call or DS can call him. Let WH knows what time he can call - if he misses it, he misses it. If DS doesn't ask - then DS doesn't call.

I don't think it is unreasonable to limit the contact when DS is with you. Some waywards do it on purpose and do not take into account how much it effects the children - and who has to actually deal with the children's emotions.

My WxH still calls my DD15, I feel excessively- and doesn't call my DD16 at all. I think he keeps his connection the family unit through DD15 and assauges his guilt by being so "active" in her life. KWIM?

It's okay to have time with your son that is uninterrupted. I would also be careful about letting him go to his dad's anytime he wants to. In theory, it sounds good of you to allow him that..... but it takes alot from you that you shouldn't have to give up.

As time goes on, he'll be running back and forth between houses so much that a schedule will be unrecognizable.

I dont' remember how old your son is, but usually a schedule is best for their own peace of mind.

Take care,
Fox

I will make sure I tell him that I never will intercept if DS wants to call WH, cuz I dont know if WH knows that already..should I add that sometimes after talking to WH after he calls that DS is upset for a while, or dont even bother mentioning that?

Yes, I think that might be better, because then I can just tell WH "you can call betw 'this time' and 'this time' " no askin is involved so WH just has no choice... and then Ill let DS call him whenever he wants otherwise, I just cant
bring myslf to give DS times he can call his dad.

And yes that is exactly what is happening with the schedule...I am losing all my time with DS...If DS is bored with what I am doing with him or doesnt like what I tell him is gonna be for dinner or I tell him to clean his room...he calls his dad to pick him up, I mean he lives with me....I feel like I have to be entertaining DS constantly or thinking of better things to do than his father does with him....It just seems there is no downtime or boring time, DS always has to be entertained now...If I have to do some laundry or something DS says Ill call dad to pick me up.....

And I dont beleive life should be that way....sometimes its the boring times I think are important, like doing chores together...stuff like that...he should not always have to be entertained, I dont agree with that...he is 8, I tell him that he should read a book and he calls his father to pick him up.....I just dont know what to say to DS, without sounding like a child myself...so I just let him go with his father whenever he wants....

I don't know if I would mention that or not. I told my WxH that and he had a fit. He didn't believe it, thought I was saying things to make him feel guilty. Shows you what connection he really has with his daughter. How could he not understand how devastating this is?

He thought by staying in contact so much he was making it BETTER when all he was doing was reminding her that he was not there and was choosing to be with OW and her DS. All he would give her was a phone call while they had HIM.

If you think he would be receptive, tell him, it's an honest statement. Just don't have any expectations that he will take it to heart and understand.

Offer the same back to him, that you will only call during certain times so that you aren't interrupting his time.

Fox

Yeah, My DS has even said stuff himself to WH and the WH texted me mad thinkin I in some way am rubbing my disease(depression) off on DS or told DS what to say...when in actuality how can they logically not think that the children do not feel their missing their father at bedtime or that their father is happy but DS is not...I would never torture DS in that way....

So I wont even mention it....

You aren't a child for sticking to the schedule - your a mother. I agree that your son shouldn't have to be entertained all the time - they need to use their own imaginations and figure out what to do during the "boring" times.

Sometimes the "boring" times are the best times for bonding.

You don't have to explain to him why he can't always call to have his dad come pick him up. The answer is just no. You are his mom - you don't have to explain it to him.

Or just tell him that your time with him is important to you and you don't want to give up any of it.

I don't think it would be bad for DS to not be able to call his dad to come pick him up. This is YOUR time with him. Where he is taught life lessons by his mother. It's important for him to be around you, too.

Don't give up, Stillhere. Never give up.

Fox

I dont even call DS when he is with his father, well maybe occasionally when I havent had my fair time with him....but I just feel that if he is upset when WH calls here, I dont want him to get upset when he is there with WH.....

But WH will occasionally text me and tell me that DS wants to come home because he misses me and if that was okay...of course it always is

.....so WH does give up his share of time, but that does not happen often....He just misses his dad more often, also the way the schedule is, cuz wh works a lot, he does not see WH as much as he is with me....but that was the same as when WH was home...moms usu see the kids more....

It's a really hard place to be in, with no definate answers. Just do the best you can do - and be okay with that.


One thing that Mr. W told me one time that just hit me at the right moment.....

YOU MATTER.

It's okay to let yourself matter. Some of us have personalities that are so busy trying to please everyone around us that we forget that we need to be happy, too.

I've often given up my own happiness for someone else to have their's. You can only do that for so long.

YOU MATTER, TOO.

Fox

Okay, you are right...and I am glad you are sayin this to me right now, cuz I can see now that I am kinda being walked all over by my DS...I just want him to be happy....

So you definitely think if I say, no you cannot have your dad pick you up, that that is okay, its not selfish on my part....I mean I do feel that me and WH are trying so hard to be his bestest parent right now, that DS is gettin really spoiled....But he is sooo happy and adjusting well right now that I dont know if I should $crew with that....but then again as he grows up it is probably not good for him to be so spoiled...am I so worried about his happiness now with all he is goin thru, that I am raising a spoiled adult....IDK I am sooo confused....

Yes, I am definitly one of "those" people. That is partly why my WH A went on for so long....I am definitly last on my totem pole of people to please and DS is #1, but IDK if it is in a good way....

If my DS never wanted to be with me, I would cry my life away, but would accept it and not see him.

I SO agree! If you find 'real' stuff to do with DS, instead of just fun stuff, guess what he's going to remember more? Guess what is going to mold him?

I did things like:

• take the dog for walks
  
• go for walks ourselves, and look for things like secret hiding holes in trees
  
• put a blanket out on the grass, and lay there and cloud hunt
• get a book and take turns reading to each other
  
• let her pick out a recipe and we learn it from scratch
  
• go through old magazines together
  
• make picnics in the living room and watch a movie together
  

It's the simple things they'll remember, and the one-on-one intensity that they always crave.

The most important thing kids need, aside from being loved, is security. They get security through consistency. I really would curtail the off and on schedule, if I were you. Those kids who live in two different homes can do so because they KNOW where and when they'll be.

Allowing your child that much authority over his schedule may seem great, but it's creating uncertainty in him; he may not even realize it, but it will add to his nervousness through the years.

Which is why I suggest talking this over with your XH, so you can set guidelines. He's a grownup; he can live with some structure.

Right, thats how I feel....I always remember helping my mom with the laundry or helping her cook....I wasnt that excited about it when I was a kid but now I remember it fondly...maybe that would be more of a girl thing though...

And I do do that stuff with him, picnics, board games...and then he will say im bored can I call dad....I swear he used to love doin this stuff and IDK if its his age or that dad is sooo exciting now to win DS' love.....

But I do remember times I didnt want to help my mom do stuff or I thought it was boring and I never thought of it but you are right...I do remember the exciting stuff...but for some reason I feel more sentimental and look at that boring stuff much more fondly....Mmmmm, that is interesting...

No offense to you, of course, but this is a very dangerous path to take.

He is learning to jump from high to high to high. How will he ever learn to work hard to achieve something, if once it becomes boring or hard, he just jumps ship and finds somehting to give him an immediate high?

And it's working hard to achieve something that molds our self-esteem.

You guys really dont know how happy I am that you are saying this stuff right now... It just makes me feel not guilty about making him stay with me on my scheduled day....and I love to be with DS, bored and bratty or happy and dancing, Ill take my time with him any way i can.....

Yes, yes you are sooo right....i am making him happy in the short run but ruining his grown up life in the long run....I do feel that this is definitly happening and he is such a wonderful little boy, I dont want him to change into a deserving, self absorbed adult (MMMMph, like someone else I know).

If you ever did this, Still, I would .

DS is a child and even if he said this, he wouldn't really know what it meant.

YOU need to be a constant - no matter what DS says or does. YOU set the tone.

DO NOT give him up.

Never give up, Still, NEVER GIVE UP!


I love cats list. It is the just "being" that kids remember. One of my favorite memories as a child was Sunday mornings. That was my mom's time to clean the house. She'd turn Don Williams on the stereo and clean the house as she sang along with it or talked on the phone with one of her sisters.

It was so "normal" and she was seemed happy. Her marriage to my dad was very rocky. Those Sunday mornings were a welcome respite to the fighting and frustrations of the week. I don't know where my dad was but Sunday mornings he was very seldom home. I remember HER - singing and laughing and living.

He needs your existance in his life. Don't take that from him by giving up your time.

He doesn't know that he needs it - but he absolutely does.

Fox and Cat (omg that is funny), you both have helped me TREMENDOUSLY today...you will just never know how much this talk with you guys today has changed the way I feel about my importance in DS life...I mean I knew I was important but just not that important....

I really appreciate what you guys have done today for me and DS' relationship...things are gonna be a little different from now on...and I have always thought that those normal boring times were the most important.

Life is BORING, it is not full of excitement and maybe that is partly what is wrong with WS' they think it always has to have drama or excitement and I do not want my son to grow up thinking that.....I think you learn more about your family and yourself when you have those normal times together...

THese days just seem to have less and less of them with the video games and all the shows on tv and such....

I am just sooo glad to hear that from you guys too...sometimes I am so unsure of myself or the way that I feel about things, hearing it from someone else makes me feel more confident about myself in things...THANK YOU..

You are more than welcome, Still. I thank God for this forum - people here walked me through many a dark and unsure moment.

I'm glad to be able to pay it forward.

Do something for YOU today. Take a long shower, paint your nails, SMILE at your reflection in the mirror, play some funky music and dance like a fool.......

You ARE a good mom - I see you doing everything you can for your son.

The most important thing you can do for your son is to recover yourself.

Fox

Hi Still. Here's a (((Still))). I also wanted to point out that your job is first to be a loving parent. You can't be his friend, especially as he gets older. It'll cause conflict. The most LOVING thing a parent can do for a child these days is to enforce boundaries. A child who is allowed to call the shots on what HE wants to do is a child who will have unrealistic expectations when he gets out into the world.

That little boy needs one parent who will make him accountable and who he can respect. His dad has already blown it, even though your son may not realize it yet. When he becomes a man and marries some day, he'll understand the betrayal and pain his father caused. He'll also understand the loving mother he had who didn't allow him to do whatever he pleased and cared enough to instill some important disciplines.

It's OKAY to say no to a child, no explanation necessary. The "no" is coming from the voice of security and authority in his life. He may pitch a hissy fit (hmm, sound familiar?) and declare that he hates you because you're so mean, but it's just a fit. Five minutes later, he'll be back to being that lovable child-- the tantrum forgotten.

Do your son a favor (and yourself) and set the rules of YOUR house. Oh, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with taking YOUR phone off the hook for uninterrupted time with your son, even if you're both just looking at the walls. KWIM?

Don't let WH run over you and stop letting your son manipulate you with his whims. You're the mommy and it's your house.

(((Still))) - I see you getting stronger and conquering whatever challenges you face. You will survive and your son will grow up into a remarkable young man who protects his mother.

Yes I am getting stronger and a lot of it has to do with you guys, thank you.....I see a Phsychiatrist, phychologist and I swear I have run thru several of them and I never feel as confident or as strong for myself as I do after talkin on here....sometimes even the doctors dont get it, only people who have been through it do....

Okay so this was much easier than anticipated...when DS got home from school right away he started with the Im bored...so I said what would you like to do play a game, watch a movie...whatever.

SO he says IDK, im bored can I call dad....I said are you calling him to pick you up or just to say hi...DS says to come pick me up...I say "No, you can call him but not to pick you up"...

Well here is the weird part, DS just says "Okay" and I dont even give him an explanation(which to me I was waitin for the why all along..and it never came) and DS never calls WH...we watch a movie together and play a game, he helps me make dinner and now he is doin his homework. It was a really nice afternoon with no interruptions(sp)...no more mention of WH...

And WH has been callin all afternoon, but never texts me so I kept the ringer off and once in a while check for texts....if WH text me askin if he can spead to DS I will as DS if he wants to call him...but if DS says no, im just gonna text WH back that DS doesnt want to.....but I havent got a text yet so I probably wont...

UGGHHH! so easy that I should have done this all along...and on school nites this will make it so much easier not to have all the interruptions...

Now normally, he would have called his father, WH would have picked him up and dropped him off at bedtime....

I'm so proud of you!

btw, regarding video games, internet, tv, phones, etc. ... I instituted a 30-minute rule in all cases. D19 could choose what she wanted, but she only got 30 minutes of 'fun' because she has obligations, just like everyone else.

I taught her that you handle your obligations first. If you accomplish them, you can reward yourself with games, etc. But the obligations always come first. Plus, if you put off your obligations (homework, chores, etc.) for fun first, your fun time is kind of screwed up because you know you'll be having to stop it eventually, to get your obligations done.

She was fine with that. She knew I was taking care of her.

In other words, set limits.

Wow. That just will NOT work when a child is in school! It makes me shudder to think of it!

Yes, since WH left i am horrible at setting limits....esp with the bedtime thing...tonight we read a story and he is in bed and it is only 8 o'clock...and he didnt even really complain as much as I really thought he would....that was usu his bedtime at school time...lately it has been 930 or 1000pm...not watching tv but he loves to play with his legos by himself at nite...so I really never minded him stayin up late to do that....

But it was so easy to put him to bed at 8pm, now i just have to see how long it takes for him to fall asleep cuz he is not used to goin this early anymore....But anyway, I think the guilt of his father leaving has made me be very very lax with DS....and now talkin to you guys I do realize that, in the long run esp., it is not a good thing....

Listen to Meggy. She said exactly what I was going to tell you. I'm not one to give parental advice. I had one chance and blew it, but the thing that I can tell you is that you cannot be his friend. My DD has the problems that she has in part because the parenting thought of my day was to "be a friend to your child." Bullcrapola. I now know that was NOT what I should have done. If I had it to do over again, I would have been that parent from h3ll.

Discipline, discipline, discipline. DD has that now in the rehab, and I don't think she will ever be able to function without it. Seeing the way they handle the addicts at the house made me realize that they NEED it. Don't slack up on it just because his dad left or he will catch on to that and use it against you for the rest of his life. Get things under control now or you will be in for a ride when he is a teenager.

Thank you, Chai....but I hate to hear you say "you blew it"....Ahhhh, maybe you made some mistakes, we all do...you do not get a manual on how to raise you children....you did the best you could at the time and it was out of love...when it is out of love, i mean dont be so hard on yourself..

My thing is, truly, we all screw up our kids somehow...my parents screwed me up, ya know? Inlaws screwed my WH up... I mean no one is perfect and that counts in parenthood too....but I can never say my parents didnt love me, they screwed up yeah, but I know the love was there....and your DD knows you love her....

My parents were super super super strict...my mother didnt let me do anything and she wasnt shy about hitting....thats how she was raised....but me I said when I have kids I am never gonna hit them and I have a hard time sayin no.....esp after WH left, I want my DS to like me....

I dont know if kids are supposed to "like" you...I hated my mother....love her to death now, she owns up to her huge mistakes, I know she did the best she could with how she was raised...her dad died when she was 6 and she was the oldest of five so she was the mom to her siblings because her mom had to work.....she was a very controlling mother...

Well I kindof rambled but my point is, dont be so hard on yourself.....I hate to hear it esp. from you....you got a lot of love Chai and your DD can never say she wasnt loved.....

I think parenthood is the perfect example of the old "hindsight is 20/20." I mean Chai, your daughter could have turned out perfect and you would have been fine with the way you raised her....you just dont know in what way we inadvertantly screwed our kids up until they are older....and I think all teens are screwed up anyway....

And one time Supernanny said "the nicest parent have the worst behaved children." I need to keep reminding myself of that, but it is kindof screwy because ,stern and strict, that is not the way we want to act. Its not the way a lot of us are wired, but it seems to be the right way when it comes to raisin children....

Still...

I note that your signature says that you are in "Plan B", but then in reading your thread I hear you mention that WH texts YOU - Why is this? Where is your intermediary?

Next, I just wanted to reiterate the importance of a schedule for your DS...and to mention be careful with the "I just want him to be happy" stuff - Happiness is NOT the most important virtue, and I know you know that - what is MORE important is that your son is raised to be moral - raised to understand that life isn't "fun" 24/7...And this bit of him being able to call his dad to pick him up when he is told to do things that aren't "fun" - no way - I'm glad you are getting a handle on that, BECAUSE that is nothing more than ESCAPISM - which, as you know is EXACTLY what waywards do! Anytime you feel a pang of guilt about stuff like that sweetie, you just remind yourself that you are training your son to invest fully in his life - even the boring, mundane parts of it, because THAT is the BEST thing you could teach him...The lesson that ALL of his life is to be valued...even the "yucky" parts - the joy in life is much sweeter when ALL of it is experienced...Escapism is unhealthy and I know you don't want that for DS...

And Still, I'm sooooo sorry that you are having to go through this...It makes me sooooooooooooooo freakin' mad at waywards! Who don't seem to get or care how their selfish choices are impacting their children and everyone else around them...grrrrrrrr...[and it's not lost on me that, "There, but for the grace of God, go I"...ugh...]

Mrs. W

Still, thanks for the vote of confidence but I guess as parents we always blame ourselves. I do wish that I had been more strict though.

I agree with the others though. You can't allow him to call dad when he gets bored. He has to learn to get through those times. One problem with my DD was that she always wanted to be entertained. The drug use stems from "boredom." She is almost 28 and still has that mindset that she needs to be entertained. Work is a foreign word. Entertainment is the name of the game, which is why I believe she is going to have a hard time outside of the rehab.

Anyway, set some limits so that you don't run into too many problems when he is 13, 14 etc. I can almost guarantee that when things get tough you won't see much of WH. Waywards won't deal with problems, so it will be up to you.

(((Still))))) As Mrs. W said, feeling follow actions so do something with your life to make it meaningful. I know it is easier said than done when you have depression, and the A didn't help I know, but try to get out of the rut. We've all been there....

When my youngest DS has a bad day since our separation he hates me and my "routines" as he calls it - it's not fun all the time as being with daddy - but I can live with that - I can't raise my kids on fun alone.

Yeah, I do text wh and vice versa on stuff regarding DS...I have really just given up any hope for recovery of my M...So I am in a semi Plan B for my recovery not M recovery....and until I am ready for the D stuff or am forced to D by WH I guess I am just gonna stay here in limboland....

That is kindof why I really dont post on my thread unless it usu pertains to DS....I screwed up my Plan B by doin a semi plan B...I just couldnt keep my mouth shut about how much pain DS and I were in and I LB'd a lot...so I have kindof accepted that it is just too late for my M.

Quick thought on kids. There's a difference between being strict so that you maintain control - i.e., be the ruler - and being strict in a logical way. Logical strict is like 'you need 8 hours of sleep, so you WILL go to bed now.' Or 'if you don't do the homework, you'll repeat 2nd grade and all your friends will leave you behind, so no TV until those 2 pages are done.'

The kid may not like it, but it makes sense. They won't argue that stuff. Just like your son said ok and went to bed. Because he knows it makes sense.

Absolutely, Cat...good point...my mother was just controlling and here there and everywhere, I never knew which end was up, nothing she did was logical (and wont even go into how irrational she was).

I am not going to boss DS around just to have control "I am the boss"....That is a great way for me to look at it when I have to tell him no...in the long run its for his own well being...Thanks Cat..

Still,

Just reading some threads this morning and came upon a post from you to (I think) Aetna. Just wanted to comment on how great you seem to be doing these days. I am glad to see it.

Thank you, Chai...You are so sweet ..I hope you are doing good as well. We tough cookies!

I havent posted in a while on my thread...this is more a vent or...maybe I just want someone to tell me I am not crazy as I texted my WH and....well I start to be persuaded by his crap...

I do talk to my WH now, but just minimally and about DS usu..NOTHING about anything personal...

anyway...everything has been status quo for a while now...my WH has his days to see DS and I have mine...there have been no problems with that at all...my WH sees DS alone, he lives with my MIL now...DS has not been exposed to OW as I told him I would take him to court and fight till the death for my DS not to be exposed to her...

We are not divorced not even separated and since things are status quo and I am no where near ready to date...I have just been riding along, in pain...but making it and DS is doing well.

Well, to the point now....My son the other day told me that WH asked him go go away with him and his OW.....DS said he was kind of in shock at the time and didnt know what to say...Now needless to say my blood pressure hit the roof....but I calmy asked him what he wanted to do...DS said he did not want to go with OW anywhere, ever....

So I texted my WH and said DS didnt want to go with him and OW...and that I thought it inappropriate to even ask him at all....well needless to say nasty texts started coming my way....

WH..text..."well other people were going like her sister so he didnt feel it was inappropriate."

ME..text.."He was upset with you asking him to do this and wanted to tell you himself but I said I would tell you...Dont make him feel bad...he is doing well with how things are going...lets keep it this way....for his sake...He just needs time with you, not time with you and your mistress...

Well Wh went on to say that he feels DS should be part of his life and that means spending time with the people that WH are with..That I was the one that influenced him to feel this way about OW and that I was immature to make a child carry a grudge and hate another person...that that is a heavy burden for a child...


UGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I said he hates OW because she helped destroy his family. And that it is unforunate that DS has to live with the bad decisions that he made..it is a heavy burden that he put on our DS...

WH replied that that is my take on what happened..and he is not gonna argue that point because I couldnt see it any other way but my own interpretation.....UGHHHHHHH!!!

MY INTERPRETATION!!!!!!!WHAT?!!!! ITS FACT! He had a two year affair and after I found out he left his family to be with OW....FACT!!!!!


I am just so maaaddd...why do waywards think the children have to take part in their scummy affairs .....Does he want him to go to work with him and meet his coworkers too!!!!! I mean thats part of his life tooo!!!! How selfish and ridiculous!!!


Okay I guess I just needed to vent...thanks for listening>

Still,
I know you need to vent, this stuff is very hard and it is only natural you want to protect your 9 year old. He is too young to be exposed so such ugliness.
However, here is what i think.
YOu need to have an IM.
If you want to look after you and your health you need an IM.
If you want to R your M you need an IM
If you want to stop making the OW look good and you sounding like a B@ch to your WH you need an IM (because that is what he thinks of you when you have those exchanges with him, he thinks it is all your fault and that makes you the enemy and strengthens the A)
This A has been going on way too long. It is time to pull the drama out of it and let the 2 unfaithfools deal with eachother.
You, in the picture defending your son and getting angry does not help the A die
It makes you the enemy and they band together against you. YOu are the fuel.
If need be you need to go thru legal ways to protect your son but not by contacting your WH directly about him
Keep your original word to WH that if he imposes OW on DS you will bust his behind legally.
Stop hurting yourself and empowering the A.
Blessing

You are right...I think I have just given up on R...too much time has past...too much pain...but for my own sanity...I just thought I could deal with it...but I guess I really cant...

Plan B dark as night. And not even about marital recovery but for removal of abuse.

(((((Still)))))

Okay...I guess I am just not good for going dark....my WH again pushed a date with DS and OW...and son refused....DS was very angry and instead of stayin with WH like he was supposed, he asked to come home....

When he came home he started crying and sayin that WH keeps asking him to do things with OW and he doesnt want too....it was a long nite with texts betw me and WH...DS refused to talk to him about it and told me to tell his father that he is stressing him out...this is my precious little 10 year old//

Long story short I called WH and told him the things DS was saying to me...like that if his father wants to be with his girlfriend during his time with him,then he will never speak to him again...etc...etc...

I told WH he was hurting his son....and now WH is saying that DS is too young to make these decisions for himself and that he is going to make son spend time with OW and him....against my sons will....my son is begging me to protect against having to spend time with OW...

WH is saying that I am influencing my sons decisions...and that DS is only doing it because he feels he is protecting me...if that is true, is that such a bad thing? I mean goodness, gracious...am I just beside myself...

I know I have to speak to a lawyer now...but do you guys think I can keep son away from OW...WH says I cannot...but we are still married and it is DS who is saying he doesnt want to be with OW....Should I stay married to him so I have more say and drag out a divorce which I dont want anyway....can I ask for full custody if we arent even legally separated...do I need a divorce for that...

I mean who is benefitting from DS being forced against his will to spend time with OW...Not DS....it is for WH and DS...IDK, do you thing I really in the end will just have no say in the matter?....am I fighting a losing battle?

I just cant believe he has so little respect for me and ds that he does not care about either of our feelings...I just cannot believe it....I dont know who this man is who makes his son cry....DS was doing so well...the set up was good...alone time with mom and alone time with dad...why would he want to screw with that for his own benefit...

I was just crying all day because DS is trusting that I can do something to keep ow away...and it is breaking my heart...I didnt want this fight....I loved that DS was spending alone time with WH...This just will never end....

Stillhere,

I am a tax attorney in Michigan so I'm not qualified to tell you what to do. I've read enough on these boards the last few years to tell you that the answers to your questions really can't be answered here. Your attorney in your state should be able to help you.

See these situations can go many different ways even from city to city and judge to judge. Many states and judges care about exposure to OW/OM whereas a FEW others (likely wayward judges themselves) are just as likely to want to punish you and give credence to your husband's argument that you are alienating his child. You have to consult with your attorney to figure out your best angles to maximize the chances that you CAN actually get a order forbidding exposure of OW to your son while at the same time not giving the appearance you are being vindictive and bitter. The reason you don't want your son exposed to the OW is because you truly are looking out for his best interests. He is fully aware of OW's role in destroying his family and has no interest in a relationship with her. This is NOT being done to victimize your wayward husband, who you would really like to reconcile with (being open to reconciliation is usually pretty good evidence that you are truly alienating the boys father). Remember...his claim (that his lawyer may someday argue) is that you are alienating him....alienating his mistress is not a legal claim.

You MAY have to actually file a claim to enforce anything. Right now you and your husband have 100% custody of your son to take him anywhere and introduce him to anyone. If your husband forces the issue and introduces the OW to your son (and son goes nuts) you MAY consider filing for temporary child custody order (which sets out the temporary visitation arrangement and schedule and includes an order forbidding WH from exposing OW to son or forbidding him from having female unrelated guests during visitation ...whatever you can get in your state). In the alternative, maybe a restraining order against OW (as you can bet she's the one really pushing your husband not to be a wimp and allow you and your son to treat her like the pariah/tramp she is).

It gets tough from there. I've seen situations where there is an order disallowing contact and, guess what, OW shows up "accidentally" whereever WH goes out in public. The divorce case gets filed and throughout the process you spend all sorts of time, money and effort trying to enforce the order only to have the judge/court not care that much. Divorce court is so expensive you end up settling the case and if you force the issue too much, WH just ends up marrying the wh0re (because orders forbidding exposure of children END once the paramours marry). It matters too how good his attorney ends up being and how much fight your husband has in him.

I know you've got a long way to go before all that (you haven't even filed for divorce) but just wanted you to know that we've seen these situations before and some go great (judge is strict and doesn't put up with anything) and other times it's a nightmare for the betrayed wife.

I don't envy your position. OW will likely force herself upon your son at some point no matter what you do and your WH is so stuck in her visegrip personals to know what's really going on. I just noticed he moved out THREE years ago...WOW...you've got to be pretty done with plan B now. My opinion, for what it's worth, is that it may be time to file and see if that just happens to change something...if not, I'd say it's time for you to get on with your life. Your call.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you for taking the time to respon Mr W....I really appreciate the time and thought you put into your post....

Yes, I am really pretty done with Plan B for R....your answer is pretty much what I figured...thank you so much...

I think I am seriously considering filing.....I mean its a lose lose for me anyway....and at least this way I can just be done with it...I think it is inevitable at this point anyway....Oh well...It will never end.

The only way to light is by undertaking an effort. Complacency may feel comfortable sometimes but you've got a lot of living left to do.

with or without him...you'll be fine. I know your son with suffer and have struggles. The consequences of his father's actions are unavoidable, but YOU matter too and you can't fix it yourself.

Both you AND your son will be better off having it done.

Mr. W

ps - having not been there myself, thank God, I wonder how you should be handling things. Hopefully those that have been at the end of plan b and beginning of plan d can chime in. Remember their are quite a few experienced successful MB'ers (success isn't only recovery) on the divorced forum too.

Good point Mr W....thanks again...I knew things were going too smoothly lately...I was waiting for the other shoe to drop and sure enough....

Hey Still

Your right it is a lose lose.

You came on the board about the same time as I did. At one point last winter I read your whole thread.

I know you have done about all a person could do to try to save their M and get along with a WH and child exchanges.

Some waywards just stay waywards. As much as we want our loved one back the way they were-the person we fell in love with- its not in His master plan for life.

You have to decide when enough is enough and quite frankly when I truely decided it was enough and no longer tried (filed) a sense of peace came to me. At least I knew there was an end point out there in the near future.

I set the end point out there for myself. For personal recovery from all the cr@p my WW seemed to send my way and then tried to blame me for.

You will know within yourself when it is time.

Just wanted to send you a

nESRE

Thanks nesre....I need the hugs right now...and I am glad you finally got your peace...I hope that will come to me soon also...I havent had that for a while...

I want to ask you to seriously think about something. How is going into Plan B going to improve your life? How would going into Plan B negatively effect your life? Hash it out here, and let's discuss.

I don't know if you are going to be able to keep OW away from your son or not, but what I would do is tell your son that you are going to do your best.

I also agree that it is time for you to contact an attorney. They will be able to tell you what you can and can not do.

Take care Stilly

I know....I definitely think that R is out now....I have no Patience for an IM when I am soooo angry....but then at the time I am not thinking that he is gonna get angry back and spew his venom too...and then that upsets me and it is just an angry text contest between us...

But then I get so angry that maybe its good?...IDK....I am just a complete mess right now...completely....and now I am overwhelmed with this feeling that this is my life now, for the rest of it....pain, pain, pain...with small periods of being able to relax, but always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I dont care if I get a divorce...i wonder if it will help my chances of keeping ow away...why didnt WH just start the process? Why do I have to?....Its like I cant live like this, but I have to for my boy...and I cant even protect him...I feel so helpless...I know my WH will get his way. So do I even feel like fighting? Should I just forget about it? I have to pay for a lawyer that I have no idea where I gonna get the money from? I have none! I hate my life!

My icemaker spontaneously start working today? after not working for a year> Haaaaaa...I guess good things are happening, life could be looking up for me... FAT CHANCE!

I know the feeling. You still have fight in you yet.

And Plan B CAN help you get that peace you are searching for.

When I first arrived here, I felt like I was drowning. I was a real mess. I Plan A'd(which was hard as heck) and then I went into Plan B. I think I was only sure of it because I felt the need to get out of where I was. That is why I suggest it to so many. I want to help you get out of where you are and I KNOW that Plan b is the way to get that, for you.

Regardless if there is a chance to save your marriage, there is still a chance to save yourself.

Look at yourself honestly and ask WHY you won't stop communicating with your WH directly? It harms you, so why continue? What do YOU get out of it? Do you enjoy the drama? Does it make you feel like in some way, you are still connected? What is it?

Sorry, but personal recovery is also hard work. You just need to look at yourself.

That's what I mean...


It's time for a change. THIS time in your life has run it's course. It won't be fun or pretty extracting yourself from it and there will likely be days you long for the comfort of inaction but better days are ahead.

plenty of people get divorced that can't afford it. You'll overcome it and you'll accomplish it.

You can do it. You will do it and you will make it.

Mr. W

Yeah...May be in some sick way, its for me to stay in touch with him....IDK....after all of the fighting this past few days...I actually texted my WH that the fridge starting making ice...he is the one that did everything to try to get it to work last year and I thought he would get a kick out of it...he did...he texted me back..

Its almost like we both have alternate personalities....I myself know that I separate the good guy from the bad guy...like the person I texted this morning about the ice...is not the same person that I fought with the past two days.....I dont know if that is my coping mechanism or what? IDK...

For me I did do a good Plan B for a while, but I just cant let go...its sick.

Yeah, I know...how can I expect things to change if I dont do anything to change them....

But I really didnt hate my life until this stuff started up....It was really going okay and I was looking forward to spending more time with DS in the summer...then my WH just couldnt just let son and I be...he had to stir it all up again...but I cant live my life anymore always waiting for the other shoe to drop....i guess I just have to make it drop myself.

((((((still))))))) I read your whole thread last night, a lot of it, in tears. So much of it is my life at different stages it's down right spooky.

You have got to stop torturing yourself, you will never get better until you do.

Did I read you are in Mass? If so, Adultery IS a ground for divorce, so get to a lawyer pronto. From what I was just reading on Mass divorce laws, you have a pretty good case there for a nice settlement on your side, while ugly for him.

This time you are letting WH pick up your son on a whim has GOT TO STOP! That's looking too good on your WH's side.

To give you an idea of the laws in your state (if it is Mass), this is just one link.

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/statedivorcelaws/a/mass_laws.htm

Just wanted to let you know I'm watching and rooting for you! Been in your shoes, it's a ugly place to be. The NC with WH WILL help you get better FAR faster! Please, get an IM and toss the cell phone just to get away from the text abilitiy. Just don't turn around and call then. Watch what you do text, as that can be used in court most likely (not sure).

Thank you NSZ....Yeah I am in Mass...thanx for the link...I guess I gotta start fighting.

Still,

Keep this in mind. THIS JERK OF A WS IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! Everything you say to him, he's going to most likely be holding over your head, so STOP THE CONTACT NOW!!! Cold turkey hun, just go cold turkey. Turn the cell phone off and stick it in a drawer someplace, hard to get to. NC!

Are you still seeing docs for the depression? That depression is a real butt kicker, omg, I never EVER want to go back to those years of my life. EVER. Going NC with my stbxh is what finally got me to the point of climbing out of that pool of swirling black water that had sucked me in for far too many years.

Okay...cell phone away.....Yeah, I am going to therapy and I am on meds...IDK how the heck I would be without them. WH is definitly not my friend, you are right. I need to let go.

My brain hurts and my heart...what a mess.

Trust that the right decision will come to you and you will know when the peace settles in and you are not fighting it. You can have a better life for you and your son. Hint-That peace may come when you take action for yourself to protect yourself and take action in your own best intrest. It may sound selfish right now but in the end who else will take care of you in your own best intrest?

Scotty and Mr.W are giving good advice to consider and in my time here I know I have never seen them steer anyone in the wrong direction.

Take some time and consider "Whats in Stills best intrest here". Maybe make a list so you can see it in black and white.

nESRE

Hun, it WILL get better, just stay NC!!! Have the docs look at the dosage on your meds, let them know the shoe is about to drop and you need the bit of extra umph to get past it, and you will.

I had to survive my depression without meds, for various reasons, I went thru six and could not take any of them for the reactions. It was a rough time, and still living in the house, midst of a MS relapse, and being gaslighted to hell and back, and I survived, YOU CAN TOO!!!! Trust me, you will survive, but it won't be an easy ride, and you have GOT to stay NC.

go to divorcecare.com and sign up for their daily emails. I'm not an overly religious person, but I am finding a ton of good stuff in those emails.

Thanks guys....you Mbers are helping me more than you could now...I do have to start thinking of myself a little more and not in pity but in actions....I know I have to get this a@@ out of my life for good....becuz this just isnt working at all...I am really not getting too much better and it is most likely from me continuing talking to him like he is my friend...when in actuality he is the one causing me all the pain and doesnt really care...

I am still in disbelief that this is my life and i think its almost been four years since Dday...I thought by know I would be in a so much better place...but I need to do more work to get there...I have to face that it will most likely get worse before it gets better...and I am just so not prepared for that.

it is EXACTLY because you are continuing to talk to him. Remember, he is NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! Get you a pack of post it notes, write it on a sticky note and stick it to your phone, so it's what you see when you answer or pick up that phone. Stick on on your bathroom mirror, your pillow, your closet door, everywhere you need to, post a note to remind you, HE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND!!! Take more notes, write I LOVE ME! and post those everywhere. The more you read this stuff, the faster it will sink in and take a firm hold in your mind, and from your mind, into your heart.

Would you continue beating the same nail if your hammer kept missing the nail and hit your thumb? I don't think so, yet you continue beating your heart with that hammer every time you contact your WscumH. Time to drop the hammer on him now.

Still...

maybe if I post the current status of my divorce, it will help 'wake you up' to the possiblities. Unfortunately, this is not ending so good on my side, then again, it might be the wake up call you need. I'll come back when I post it for the link.

It might get worse before it gets better, for most of us, it does temporarily, but honestly? It's easier to climb back up after that temporary slide.

One thing I found that REALLY helped me a LOT when I was so angry at stbxh is instead of texting as I used to do? I found a friend willing to be the sounding board for me. I sent them the messages I wanted to send dimwit. This friend took that info, with the whole box of salt at some points, and replied back with the most common sense I've heard in my entire life!

I don't have any close female friends, and haven't since the night I came to from a drunk passed out state to find my first XH screwing my best friend on the floor not five feet away from me. Just don't trust females after that, especially since the only one after I tried to trust ended up being the last known OW in that marriage, call me gun shy. So yes, this friend is a male, and a strong one to take some of the crap I've sent in heated emails while angry at this dimwit I'm divorcing now.

I look back over those emails and wow am I glad I did not send those to dimwit. See if you can find someone willing to do that for you!

I'm going to ask you some very hard questions now. Think about it. Answer honestly. You don't have to answer here, but at least answer honestly to yourself.

Are you 100% honest with your therapists? Do you tell him/her EVERYTHING? Even without being prompted? Are you holding ANYTHING back from them that is bothering you? No matter how small? Do they hold you accountable for what you say you are doing to help yourself?

If ANY of those answers not where they should be, then look for a new therapist you can be 100% honest and upfront with. I did that the hard way, not being fully honest with my first one. Found one I could be and wow was it a life changing thing.

I've given you a lot to think about in a short time, going to go post an update and give you time to think.



I'm on your side here.

Hey stilly,

The way I see it is BOTH of you are getting just enough of a fix of each other for him to continue his A and for you to continue stuck in the same place. It is TIME my dear for change. Get an attorney, try to keep OW from your DS but ACCEPT that you may not be able to do so. It is time for stilly to have a real life and I recommend as the others have for you to go NC for life with the wayward alien being. You can only protect your DS so much and it may very well be that, like Scotty, you will need to be the safe landing spot when he comes home from being exposed to the homewrecking wh0re.

Yeah...I am totally honest with my therapist....Last meeting I actually told her she was wasting her time with me I am hopeless...but she wont give up on me....she said I showed up and was honest and that was enough for now for me to move forward...

I will be stuck here forever if I dont do the hard stuff...I just hope I am strong enough to go through this again...after all the crap he has put ds and I through he just keeps slinging it and getting his way....its just so unfair that this just keeps going on and on...I have to stop it.

He is not my friend...
He is not my friend...


I just know that if wayward forces DS to see OW against his will...I will be climbing the walls at home....he is willing to hurt our son and pay for lawyers just so OW can have contact..it just makes no sense to me at all....except that I know the adulterers are selfish...oh well...let the games begin.

The stronger you are, the better you will be able to deal with all the crap your WH will fling at you. The best way to get stronger is to STOP ALL CONTACT WITH YOUR WH. Go dark, and in no time, you will find that strength to get through this.

It' crazy what the WS's will do to everyone around them. They are very destructive and will take down anyone and anything in their path. GET OUTTA THE WAY.