I have been coming to MB for about 1 month now just lurking and reading. I am very impressed with the MB concepts and have actually bought HNHN and have been journaling about them. I have not had the courage to ask my husband to read it, discuss it, or even come to the site.

I have read several peoples story and really appreciate the advice of several people who seem to come here often. I hope they can can be as O&H with me as they have been with others.

I came here initially because as my user names implies I was right on the verge (actually that a lie). I was having an EA with a guy I dated from high school. Since then he decided to stop the communication because after all I am a married woman. While my feeling were hurt I know that was the right thing and really has made me want to focus on what is going wrong in my marriage.

My husband and I have been married for 10 years, 2 kids DD-8 and DD-4 and recently renewed our vows. To be completely honest that is what I wanted but i was very conflicted during that time because of the EA. He is a good guy with GREAT potential. He is dedicated to his family, he's a hard worker, and very sensitive.

My H and I are currently going to C. It initially started out as marriage issues but has turned into me trying to resolve issues of mine related to childhood sexual abuse, a very conflictual relationship with my mother and brother, and how these issues cause me to project and defend that interefers with my marriage.

I will say that before the EA begun. I had just ended what could be classified as an EA with "my 1st love" for over 10 years which is basically our entire marriage. Initially my husband knew that he and I talked but he had asked me to stop and I did not. This guy is married also and our involvement was phone calls, text messages, and occassionally phone sex. My husband looked at my phone in March and saw that I was still tlaking to him and asked that I end it. I did and have not had any contact with his since then. But approx 8 days after that the other EA enters the picture. I made the contact with him which I really called to just check on him because he has been ill. However when we talked he told me how much he still cared about me and really felt like I was the woman that he let get away. As from there things deteriotated. My husband does not know about the 2nd EA.

I have told my husband that I have some needs that are not being met. Im sure he does to. As I tend to exhibit some bi-polar tendencies at times. I am currently taking Cymbalta which seems to be working. When I told him that he said "really I am the happiest I have been." That was the end of the conversation for several days until we went to C and I brought it up and told him I basically felt ignored and that he did not seem to care. Since then we have had a short talk about our roles and some of our expectations of each other.

I am looking forward to talking more and receiving feedback, even if its 2X4's.

If you've been reading the concepts, then you know that it's very important for you to maintain no contact with these two individuals and not contact them again. Otherwise, your marriage won't have a chance to get better. You would always have these two dudes in the back of your brain, and you wouldn't be giving your marriage a fair shake.

Kudos on getting medication for your possible bipolar. If that is the diagnosis, I'm sure the doctors have stressed how important it is to get regular bloodwork to make sure the medication is therapeutic and not in need of adjusting.

I'm sure others will chime in.

Welcome to MB! The recovery process will help you restore romantic love to your marriage. I encourage you to hit “Notify” under your post and ask the moderator to move your thread to GQII, as this is a case of active infidelity. They can tell you how to send the no contact (NC) letters and set up extraordinary precautions (EPs). Helping a serial cheater find recovery is a huge undertaking, and the board is unpaid volunteers, so I would encourage you to read surviving an Affair (SAA) cover to cover to equip yourself to be a full participant in your recovery. If you expect folks or your H to drag you along, you may be disappointed, because you may well be the only one to do the heavy lifting. I encourage you to read Looking4’s thread on InRecovery also, because she is doing the heavy lifting, and has advice and support there from our vets that you may well find relevant advice and support for you, too.

So you've had two EAs?

Have you told your H the full extent of EA#1 (ie the phone sex)?

Have you told the wife of OM#1 of your EA with her husband?

When are you planning to tell your BH about EA#2?

Is OM#2 married? If so, when are you planning to tell his BW?

If your BH is such a great guy then why do you keep cheating on him?

And I agree - ask to have this moved to GQ2.

Yes cat as painful as it is to type this answering honestly I have had 2 Ea's.

So are you in therapy to find out why your put your own happiness ahead of everyone else's? What caused you to be that way, that you choose instant gratification over your morals?

I have not told my H or OM#1's W.

OM#2 is not married.

I have shared with our counselor and the response was that because you have been working so hard in C and been honest I think you will find it in your heart to be honest.

My H does know about EA1.

As far as the answer to the question about why I keep cheating.......I think within my M there are some needs that are not being fulfilled. Also with OM#1 he was like an addiction I met him when I was 18 y.o. my first semester in college, i say he is the first man i ever loved, he was part of my 1st marriage and had been apart of my 2nd marriage and everytime I tried to move on from him I would temporarily then I would be right back. This had been nutual behavior. Until I begin reading this site I kept thinking if I could just get some closure to our relationship then I could move on however I realize that was just something I kept telling myself.

With OM#2 We had dated previously and I had heard he had gotten divorced, lost his job, and was on dialysis so initially I just called to check on him. Then the phone calls and text messages began. One month over 1600 minutes and approx. 550 text messages.

Both OM#1 and OM#2 live about 4-5 hours away from me and my H. I have not seen OM#1 in over 4 years and I have not seen OM#2 in at least 17 years.

Telling my H really frightens me.

Cat,

You are one of the people who I was hoping would respond. Thanks!

You have asked me some hard questions. I will be thinking more about the answers.

What I do know is that I have been selfish and I am a taker. It would be easy to blame it on being sexually abused as a child but that feels like an excuse. I think ultimatley we make choices (good and bad) and we are responsible for our own behavior.

Keep the comments coming.......

Imontheverge,

I read your post and had many thoughts. I read it again and had many more thoughts. I read it again and have had a hard time figuring out to tell you what I sense in your posts, what I think you are completely missing, and how to proceed.

First, welcome to MB. This stuff sounds very simple and straight forward but it is far deeper and subtle than you think. It will take time for you to really absorb what is in HNHN or any of Harley's articles.

Hence discussion is a good thing, even if you don't agree with what you hear. You need to figure out why you don't agree and examine those reasons.

First, let me say that in my experience reading here, there have been many posters coming here or their spouses coming here because child abuse has completely cratered their lives and their marriage. You seem to be no exception to this situation. You really really MUST work through those issues before your marriage has a chance.

Second, it seems to me you have been playing at marriage with "one hand tied behind your back" for the entire marriage because you have been in an affair for the entire marriage. Thus, there is no way you could engage your H on any meaningful level, hence you feel your H is not meeting your needs. Oddly, one must give to get, and you cannot be giving much while having an affair. It just doesn't work that way.

Further, if you read here for awhile you will rapidly learn that people in affairs don't accept/welcome/acknowledge the things their spouse does to meet their needs. So while I am sure your H is not perfect, I would bet he is better than you realize.

I will tell you that you are going to hear a lot from me about PERSPECTIVE. Your perspective on marriage is WRONG. It is not acceptable, useful, productive, or even moral to be emotionally entangled with some other man while married to your H.

I think it is dishonest to tell your H you have needs that are not being met while he has no knowledge of your long term affair and this current one.

Given these statements it seems to me you must first and foremost become open and honest with your H. Perhaps this is best done in front of the counselor. I would recommend that you speak with your counselor about this before your next meeting so that the counselor is prepared.

The next thing that must be done is go completely no contact with OM or OM's and that means sending them a letter that your H approves.

Follow this you need to examine your boundaries, your morals, and what your vows mean to you and should mean to others. You don't realize this but while violating your marriage, your H's trust, you violated YOURSELF most of all. Why did you do that? What did/do you say to yourself to do something you know is wrong (you hid it from your H so you know it is wrong)?

If you want to save this marriage you will need to come up with a plan to protect YOUR boundaries. And that plan probably includes addressing your childhood issues, which are major.

After you have done these things, then the concept of needs being met and meeting needs will have power for you, it can lead to a better marriage for you and your H and thus a better life for your children.

I've laid a lot on you,but I see hope for your marriage and not just for it surviving but thriving IF you address your childhood issues and your boundaries. The good news is if your H decides to remain married to you, you have a major role in recovery because this is about what YOU want to change with in YOU. This you can control. Your H...you cannot control.

I hope something I have said is of use to you.

God Bless,

JL

Sorry this wasn't a helpful post.

Ehhhhhhhhh...wrong answer!

You don't GET to say your needs are not being met. You are cheating. You are ripping your H's heart out and stomping on it. You have a farce of a marriage. Because of YOU.

Until you understand that, your H needs to have one foot out the door, because you will never deserve him.

Let us know when you tell him the truth. Then we'll talk.

Im going to try to respond to some of the comments that have been left.

I never want it to be felt that I am making excuses for my behavior. So I get how saying I have unmet needs makes it seem like he is responsible for what I did. I am by now means saying that. I accept responsiblity for that. I guessthe best answer WHY is because I'm selfish, I'm a taker, I put myself and my feelings ahead of others, I did not value myself, ...........

I have been in IC off and on for 16 years dealing with the abuse issues. This year has been the most pivotal. I feel my entire live had been a lie unti 08/08 when I disclosed to my mom about the abuse. The perpertrator her exH isdeceased. It has trulyrocked my family. My mother and I are not talking and my brother (the perps son) will not talk to me. Thats not my fault.

However coming clean with that has made me realize how many secrets I keep, and have kept and no longer want to keep.

With OM#1 three days before my H discovered we were still talking. I had discussed with the C ending the EA and telling my H. He found a text message from OM and asked if I was still talking to him. My thought process and the reason I toldthe counselor I wanted to end it was my husband and I had been working really hard in MC and I did not want to go another 10 years into our marriage with OM being a part of it. I was honest with him about that and have since had no contact with OM. My H is aware of this. Is there more I need to do with this?

He has no idea about OM#2.

As far as my perspective on marriage I will admit that it is poor as well as my boundaries. As far as marriage I am reading lots of books, spending lots of time here, have attended seminars and retreats. The boundaries I am talking with others, reading, discussing them with my H and working on them in C. They are getting better but I know I have alot of work to do.

I am going to have an appt with the C tomoorow. My husband is not able to go because of a doctors appt. I will be talking to her about all this tomorrow and making a plan to tell my H. What I have learned over the years of counseling is that I can only make minimal progress if I am not honest.

I will continue to post.....i will do the hard stuff

Is there anything your BH doesn't know about the EA with OM1? The phone sex, for instance? You also need to come clean with him about OM2. Get it all out in the open.

I keep coming back to this because as your marital recovery progresses (even assuming your BH wants to recover it), each new factoid that dribbles out about EA#1 or EA#2 will set his recovery counter back to 0. If you go read around GQ2 you'll see that when the truth dribbles out, it makes the betrayal almost as fresh as the original D-Day.

Please especially look for threads by linz, mutedsparkle and DNU1. There you will see the effects of letting the truth come out piecemeal. I'm sure there are others but those are the threads that come to mind. Look for "joseph's letter" on this site too.

You also need to let the BW of OM#1 know what her husband has been doing. This has a twofold purpose: it cues the BW in on what is really going on in her marriage, and it may create a second set of eyeballs watching you and OM#1 to make sure there's no contact. If you don't tell her, OM#1 will feel free to give you a call - which will set YOUR withdrawl counter back to 0. Each contact is like a fresh taste of heroin for an addict.

Your husband deserves the truth about what you have been doing. Until then he is living a lie.

You mentioned a first marriage. Is your current marriage your second or third? How did your previous marriages end?

IOTV,

You are on the verge of breaking through to an honest life...

begin by defining terms as they truly are...

you had a long-term affair...

this isn't going to be treated with the same steps, same way...

some will be the same for recovery...

and then you had an add-on affair...

so you may be a serial cheater...

These labels don't define who you are...they signal what you do, choices you make...

they are tough...I know because I had these labels...

you use others to block intimacy, responsibility, integrity and real connection...

not an excuse, an explanation...

nothing can excuse torturing another human being, as you have your BH for a decade. You're getting that.

You have a Giver and a Taker in yourself...and you'd be surprised at how much damage both do in their extremes, especially when they are impersonating the other...get those straight...you have both in you, healthy balance from healthy choices is possible.

Hasn't been your habit.

Begin your life of radical honesty today by ending deception...

tell your BH about OM#2...tell OM1's BW...come clean so you understand and live what you want most...to love yourself.

You will heal from SA and you will heal others from abusing them...you will change your whole life.

Welcome.

LA

This is my second marriage.

My first marriage was a rebound relationship for both of us and was wrong from the start. We lived together as H/W for 1 1/2 years and divorced at year 3. He was never physically abusive but had others issues. One night he wanted to have sex after we had been arguing and I would not. He threatened to tale it anyway. I called 911 and had them to come while I packed me some clothes. Lots more dysfunction to that marriage but its over....no kids were created.....and I came out alive.

Ok....So I went to counseling today, my H was not able to go with me. I talked with the C about having a talk with my husband. She agrees that it is something I MUST tell him.

So I have a few questions for you guys here. Of course I know there is no right way to tell him or right time. I just wonder what works best and what does not.

Right now one of my fears is when is the right time to tell him. He is going on an all boys motorcycle trip on Tuesday and will be gone for one week.

Should I tell him before he goes? My fear with that is he will be around lots of single woman and it makes me insecure. He has never cheated or given me any reason to think he would. That is about my fear. I guess the positive in that could be we will have a little time apart and it gives us the time to think.

Or do I wait until he comes back?

Besides being O&H how do I do this? Should I arrange a babysitter for the kids for a few hours or for the night?

Needing some direction.

I suspect most will want you to tell him now... I say, if this trip is a big deal to your H, and you are sincere about telling all... Then wait.

For a few reasons, but his safetly on a week long bike trip being #1.

-JKT

Yes, let him have one more week of life as he knows it, because that's all about to change when you tell him what you've done/been doing.

I would consider telling him with your counselor's help if you don't know how he will react.

I'll jump in here and see what I can stir up...

""Should I tell him before he goes? My fear with that is he will be around lots of single woman and it makes me insecure.""

This is classic WW thinking. You are afraid he will go DIRECTLY to another WOMAN..do not pass go, do not collect $200.

How about it could shatter him to the point he drives head on into an 18 wheeler or off a cliff? :MrEEk:

I would wait until after he returns so HE CAN ENJOY HIMSELF!

You know something???......PHONE SEX = EA???

I really don't think so... sounds very PHYSICAL to me!!

You seem rather casual about these affairs because you are calling them EAs.... I mean, shoot, man they are only EAs.

Of course the other reason you are so casual about the
EA/PAs is that they have been going on your entire marriage. So you really don't know any different...like how the M really should be WITHOUT another man in the marriage.

I seem to be hearing FOGBABBLE also. You are going through withdrawal from this second OM.

The analogy of being in the marriage with one hand tied behind you back is a good one...then telling your H that he is not fulfilling some ENs??

YOU HAVE THOSE ENs IN THE OTHER HAND!!!

You have been 10+ years with your H and another man. You must now face the M and your H alone, by yourself!!!

Can you do that?

IMHO

kirk

Please think about this some more.

Re-read Just Learning's post to you.
Your choice to be in affairs for your entire marriage have crippled your H's ability to meet your ENs. It is impossible for your H to meet your ENs, due to your affairs. I think you have the cart before the horse here.

In other words, your affairs have made it impossible for your H to meet your ENs.

Even if your H was a lously slob who didn't lift a finger to meet your ENs, you had lots of choices other than engaging in affairs.

So, keeping in mind that your affairs are what are causing your ENs to go unmet, and keeping in mind the fact that you had other choices than engaging in affairs... why do you think you keep cheating?

You need to know the answer to that question so that you can put extraordinary precautions into your behavior and life - precautions that make it impossible for you to ever do this again.

Just out of curiosity, what does EA mean to you (the original poster)? I know on another board, it means extramarital affair. Around here, it means emotional affair.

Ea to me means emotional affair.

I do realize that my M has not been a true M because of my behavior. I feel I must tell him because I want to have a real M with him.

The hand behind the back analogy is good.

Need help/opinions/suggestions on what to do next.

It feels fake waiting until he comes back but then I want him to enjoy himself. Don't know!!!!!

Gotta tell ya that when I read the above quotes my eyebrows go up into my hairline from skepticism...

10 years.

Bipolar Disorder.

Phone sex.

And yet it's "only" been an EA???

Just doesn't pass the "sniff test" for me...Sorry...

Mrs. W

So you met up with OM at least once 4 years ago. The lost love of your life that you've had a 10 year "relationship" with and phone sex with and what did you two do...play Monopoly???

I would advise everyone to tread carefully here. A self-admitted bi-polar long-term wayward wife is not one to take at her word. This is possibly a set up to be used as a back up to the lie(s) she's about to tell her husband. Her medical condition alone likely disqualifies her from being capable of undertaking the MB concepts. POJA with a bi-polar is nearly impossible (the only way I see it as possible is by the voluntary and complete surrender of control in advance of any mania by the bi-polar to the non-bi-polar spouse and a non-bi-polar spouse with firm enough boundaries for the both of them). Medical and General Durable Powers of Attorney can be helpful in these situations.

IMO, she needs more professional help than this board could ever offer and I'm glad she's in IC.

Consider yourself warned...the drama will suck you in...but the drama will never cease.

Good luck Imon...confess to your husband everything...including the physical affair YOU HAD with one or more of these OM's (and any other one night stands, etc).

Mr. Wondering

[edit to add - I do not intend to rip on ALL bi-polars with this post. There are way more red flags here than just simply bi-polar issues.]

complete agreement with ya!

Yup, that's what I was thinking too.

I appreciate all the comments and repleis that have been psoted. They really are making me take a look at myself.

I am here because I want and need help. I have bought all the books, been reading on this site, and feel I can really get some help and support from this forum.

I have tried fo many years to do things my way. That has not worked. Look where I am now.

As far as the OM#1 we dated for 7 years, actually lived together for awhile. When i say him 4 years ago it was at our college homecoming. Yes our relationship has been physical in the past but not since I have been married. We made plans several times to meet in between the 2 cities we live in but never did. Either I chickened out, he did, or one of our spouses got suscipious and it never happened. Our communication has been via phone and text messages. This was not a daily, weekly, nor monthly thing. Whenever he wantedto talk he called and vice versa.

Because I have been in counseling and I am starting to resolve some issues and feel better about myself I made the decision to end things with him. I talked to my C about it and did. I have not regretted it.

Consciously this year I decided I wanted my life to be different. I realized I am turning 40 and I do not want to live this roller coaster anymore. Plus I have 2 daughters who are CRAZY about there mother. I DO NOT want them to havethe same experiences growing up that I have. I decided the only way I could make that happen was by trying to heal.

I have also done some really hard work in counseling. the hardest thing being confronting my mother about not protecting me from my step-dad growing up. That made a huge difference in my life. A burden was lifted. I never thought I could do that. Now that I found the courage I need to get my whole life in order.

I am realizing I have a good man for a husband and my kids have a wonderful dad. No he is not perfect but he tries. He does not deserve the things I have put him through. When we decided to renew our vows this year since it was our 10 year anniversary I felt it was more reason to end things with OM#1. I told the C I did not want to take him into 10 more years of my marriage. I did not want to continue to live a lie. Both my husband and I deserve better.

OM#2 only lasted a three weeks and it was strictly via the phone. I have not seen him in about 18/19 years. That ended because he wanted more (leaving my H, moving)than I was willing to sacrifice.

My C is the one who says I tend to exhibit some bipolar tendencies. I do not think I am. For what its worth neither does my family doctor. His comment to me was that my C refers people to him all the time saying they are bipolar. Yes I have struggled with depression. I will admit to having mood swings and temper tantrums. However the mood swings have gotten better after I had surgery last year and begin taking Cymbalta.

People are going to think and say things that they think are true.....all I can say I that I'm not going away and I won't give up until I have given my best effort at making things right for me, my husband, and our family.

Your BEST efforts have gotten you where you are today! It's not working very well is it?

Your BEST efforts will not be good enough to pull anyone out of the hole you've dug. You will only pull people into the hole, because YOU are already IN the hole.

This is going to require DEVINE intervention!

Before you just decide to TELL your BH all of this info..... maybe you should ask him if he wants to know.

He needs to know that there were EAs (or whatever), but he is the one who should set the pace for how many details he can handle.

Be open to giving details if he asks for them - but don't just blurt out every single thing you can think of without letting him breathe a little.

I am continously praying about this situation. I believe in miracles and I know that God can work out any situation.

Just part of my testimony is being healed from breast cancer 4 years ago when I was pregnant.

I know he will direct my path.......

While I usually agree with tst and find his advice to be some of the very best on these boards, I disagree with this.

While it's true that your decisions and behaviors have gotten you into trouble in the past, it's also true that people can learn new skills and behaviors. I think it's quite possible for you to change and become the person you want to be. I think you can make conscious decisions and changes that will result in you looking at yourself in the mirror and being genuinely proud of who you are.

Regarding divine intervention, if you are religious then your church, bible study group, women's group, etc. can be a great help. I would avoid meeting with the preacher (if it is a man) one on one because you do not yet have good boundaries. You should not EVER talk about marital problems one-on-one with a male.

People end up in affairs because they fail to recognize all the tiny little steps that get them in "over their heads" and they fail to protect their marriage.

For example, a particular weakness of yours seems to be old love interests. In light of that you probably should decide to NEVER contact an old love interest. You should figure out now, ahead of time, how you'd react if you got an email, or phone call, or Facebook friend request from an old flame or even an old classmate that you've not seen in a long time.

I know that I have a tendency to praise and admire people, and if I express admiration to a male that can be dangerous. So I'm careful with admiration and compliments.

That's the kind of thing you need to be looking at when you figure out how you allowed yourself to get into two affairs.

Also think about who crossed "the line" first, and most often. If it was you, figure out how, and why, and fix it. If it was OM, figure out why you allowed it. Put a game plan in place so that in the future you are ready with a new plan of behavior.

One thing most waywards need to change is how they allow themselves to associate with members of the opposite sex. You might have boundaries that you never are in a room with one male; if your boss calls you into his office, you ask the admin assistant to come in as well. If you're invited to sit with a guy in the break room, you invite someone else to join you. You never give or accept a ride from a male if there are no others riding with you. Things like that.

You also need to allow your H to be your best friend. Sit down with him and brainstorm a list of activities that you both enjoy. Make sure you spend at least 15 hours per week engaged in those activities. That means without doing chores, or watching TV, or having the kids in tow. Just the two of you, focusing on each other and having fun.

bump