Well, I have to make this short and sweet as I have been known to be long winded. H and I have been together for almost 18yrs married for 12. I was his first anything. I had BFs in the past but nothing passed kissing. We have 2 Sons 6 and 9. He works in an office Mon-Fri 9-530 and i work a PT job wed,thurs nights and sat and sundays during the day. He goes out with friends every Friday or Saturday night.
2 Years ago i received a call from a girl at his work that told me that he was making a fool out of me at work and that he was carrying on a relationship with OW at work, going on lunches with her and leaving work early to hang out. I called him he came home and said that nothing was happening they were "just friends". There were a few incidents of lies about calling her and i even found him at her appt when he said he was going to be some place else. He told me they weren't having an affair but i believe it was emotional.
He is a very closed off person and he says that he has never talked to her about us or our problems at all. I have talked to her 3 times and the last time she actually annoyed me to the point that i wanted to hit her. I of course did not.
2 months ago on our 12th wedding anniversary my H gave me the ILYBINILWY line. I asked him if he thought about leaving and he said yes. I didn't rage or cry on the outside instead i calmly talked to him about what would happen when he left(welfare, sell house, kids lose school friends, etc.) We have agreed that since he couldn't leave by Nov 1st that he would have to stay in the house till February so the kids wouldn't remember xmas or our younger son's bday as the day daddy left. Emotionally it has been really hard for me but i have been getting through it.
He informed me a month ago that he is moving out in February and to noone's surprise he is moving into her "extra bedroom".
Last night, we were out at pool league when the owner of the bar asked me what was going on and I said things seemed to be getting better. She said, "but he isn't wearing his wedding ring" I burst into tears. I hadn't even noticed. I asked him when he took it off and he said a week ago. Then i asked y he hadn't told me and he said he thought i would have noticed by then. He said he had been keeping it in his pocket so he wouldn't lose it. I asked for it back and have placed it in a safe place.
How do I go about exposing an EA to my list of people? I have told my family and friends. How do I tell ppl at his work, since they do work together and actually sit beside each other all day long every day? He doesn't really talk to his relatives and he has very few friends (4) who all work with him and don't know me at all. Been attempting to do Plan A without even realizing it for 3 weeks and thought things were getting better. I expressed that to him and he said "yea because I was treating you like a friend." My response was, "Sometimes you treat me worse" and he said "that's cuz I know you." My heart is just breaking over and over again but I m keeping it together. Any replies to this topic will help
Hey cowgirl, welcome to MB, I am so sorry you have to be here.
I am equally sorry to have to tell you it is a PA. There is no way it would have gone on this long without sexual activity. The fact he is planning on moving in with her sets off too.
So far he is behaving according to script. The fact he is still living at home is a huge bonus for you, it means you can really knuckle down on a tight plan A. Then when/if he moves out you will be able to go into a solid plan B.
Have you read the articles, 10 basic facts and much on the forums? DO you realise your about to do some of the hardest work ever!
Dont worry about being long winded, we love detail, it helps us help you. And I love your name BTW, I am a dairy farmer, so am a sort of cow girl too
The next thing we need to address is snooping. Yes it is an actual requirement. Many an A has fallen by evidence uncovered by a savvy snooping spouse. It also gives extra oomph to exposure when your not just saying "my WS is having an affair", but "WS is having an affair and here are the facts and details..."
I stole this from holyhearts thread...
Originally Posted by holyheart
If I had advice for Newbies, that's what it would be. Don't wait until after the WS leaves or even when they say that the A is over. SPY, SNOOP and INVESTIGATE right from the get-go. And do not give up your sources. And do not... do not... spill the secrets you find until you absolutely have to. And nothing is off-limits because you never, never know when you may need the info. Photos, receipts, ticket stubs -- whatever. They may not make any sense at the beginning, but they will when you have to start putting the puzzle together. Keep a calendar, too, so you can reconcile credit card transactions with what was going on that day. Thankfully, I keep my purse calendars each year and I alway wrote when D!ck would be out of town and the reason.
there is a syping thread on here, I'll look for and bump for you.
I agree, it's a physical affair. You need to expose this affair *yesterday*.
Here is some info on exposure; just change the gender to suit your own situation. I will say that with the affair this entrenched and the plans already in place for him to move in with OW he may just go ahead and move out. So be prepared for that.
--Exposure targets Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.
--Exposure message Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.
--No warning Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?
--Exposure after-effects Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
A sample exposure letter, written by Brit's Brat, a MB member and corporate attorney:
To Whom It May Concern:
This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
Thanx for the great advice so far. I have snooped in the past and actually found some very interesting things and he got really good at hiding. I have thought about going to where he works and sit outside and wait to see if they come out together and follow them to see what happens. I have also thought about going to their work one Sunday afternoon and follow her home from work and then the next time that he says he is going to another friend's house I am going to go to her house and see if he is there instead. Is that too much?
As far as the work thing, I dunno if it is against any of their policies because they are just co-workers and I know that they allow married couples to work there. I think I am going to call his mother and sister although he doesn't talk to them so I don't know how that will help. His bestfriend at the moment is her and he only has two other friends who happen to work at his work so I only know his their first names.
I asked him on Monday what he was going to tell people when he leaves and he said "I will say that we seperated and it was mutual." I was a little upset and i said "But that would be a lie." and his response was "I don't tell anyone my personal business"
I know I am going to have a lot of work ahead of me and I also know that he is going to leave. He may even leave earlier once he finds out what I am about to do (telling his work about this).
Thanx and keep it coming I have a feeling I am going to need a lot of this. I have a lot of friends but none have gone through this and come out together on the other end. And all of them have told me the "Kick him out now" "Why are you letting him walk all over you by staying there" I know they are trying to help but they don't know what I really need.
Thanx for the great advice so far. I have snooped in the past and actually found some very interesting things and he got really good at hiding. I have thought about going to where he works and sit outside and wait to see if they come out together and follow them to see what happens. I have also thought about going to their work one Sunday afternoon and follow her home from work and then the next time that he says he is going to another friend's house I am going to go to her house and see if he is there instead. Is that too much?
As far as the work thing, I dunno if it is against any of their policies because they are just co-workers and I know that they allow married couples to work there. I think I am going to call his mother and sister although he doesn't talk to them so I don't know how that will help. His bestfriend at the moment is her and he only has two other friends who happen to work at his work so I only know his their first names.
I asked him on Monday what he was going to tell people when he leaves and he said "I will say that we seperated and it was mutual." I was a little upset and i said "But that would be a lie." and his response was "I don't tell anyone my personal business"
I know I am going to have a lot of work ahead of me and I also know that he is going to leave. He may even leave earlier once he finds out what I am about to do (telling his work about this).
Thanx and keep it coming I have a feeling I am going to need a lot of this. I have a lot of friends but none have gone through this and come out together on the other end. And all of them have told me the "Kick him out now" "Why are you letting him walk all over you by staying there" I know they are trying to help but they don't know what I really need.
Aaagghhh, Waywards! Cowqueen, you need to get to work. Snoop, snoop, snoop. Start collecting your info and be ready to use it to expose this mess. Yes, it's PA, not EA, and you'll find things - doesn't matter how much he tries to hide it. Check cell phone records, checking accounts, debit & credit card transactions, document everything.
As far as their job goes - no company owner wants to get a certified letter stating that two employees are screwing around and using company resources to do it. Especially when the letter references a possible sexual harassment charge - instant rash for a company owner. They'll have to respond to a letter that says that. Especially if you copy the letter to more than one higher-up (exp: President, Vice-President, HR person, company attorney, etc.) Expose to everyone you can think of who could lend any support to you as far as ending the A. Family, friends, co-workers, etc. Plan A. Show him that what he has at home is ever so much better than anything else he thinks he wants. There's more - the vets will be here shortly to add to what I've said.
Okay, here is a bit about my snooping past. I have always been kind of a snooper. I looked at redials, and incoming calls always. I even checked mileage on the car to make sure that it equaled where he said he was going. After I received the phone call from his work I became a super sleuth but I also couldn't hold any of the things in when I found them so he got really good at hiding. I have complete access to email and facebook accts that I know of. I have tried to determine if he had other accounts and have not found any.
We have one bank account and one credit card and I have online access to both. There is no unexplained money trails.
As far as his cell phone, I also have online access to every call made and that's how I found out he had been calling her for 9 months while I was at work. There are no unknown calls on there either.
The only thing I don't know for sure at the moment is that he goes where he says apart from work which is usually one night every 2 weeks.
He no longer brings his pay stubs home because I had approached him about the missing hours and vacation time used.
Our separation plan at the moment is that he will leave and live in her "extra bedroom" and not pay her any rent. He will continue to deposit his cheques in the account and all bills will continue to be paid as always. He will come and watch the boys in my home when I have to go to work. I haven't read much about Plan B yet but I dunno how I am going to impliment it with this arrangement which at the moment is ideal.
Since logging on to this this morning I wrote message on facebook to his mother just stating the facts and telling her that I want to work at saving this marriage and I don't expect her to choose sides as he is her son. I have also decided to write to his company and tell them but it is a large company and I don't know if I should just send one big envelope to the office he works from with smaller envelopes with the President, Vice-President, HR and Company Attorney written on them. Any advice on that would be appreciated.
As far as the snooping thing goes, I believe that I have enough evidence that something has been going on that I don't need anymore.
OW's parents shouldn't like their precious daughter dating a married man with children. Plus, any hope your husband has of a good relationship with them one day would be OUT THE WINDOW.
I fell a little weird telling people he is having an affair when I don't have concrete proof that it has become physical. I know that you (as well as all of my RL friends) have been convinced since the beginning that it was, but I was blind to it. Even if it was EA it has gone way to far already. I am seriously sick of the lies. I am sure there will be a lot of new lies coming.
I have ordered Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs, but I have to wait for them to come in.
I don't know any of her friends and family so I don't know how that one can be accomplished.
I am not physically afraid but I am frightened as to what will be coming next. I have a lot of support and I am strong enough to get through this completely intact and better. Life is going to get hard for a while first.
My husband cried over the fact that he would be leaving the kids and I know he is going to feel extreme guilt when he lives in her house as she has a 9yr old daughter.
I do believe that it is like he has been taken over by an alien and even more than one. He doesn't even seem to remember what he said last week let alone what he says were his values 3 years ago. I feel like the universe and fate sent me this website for a reason and I take it as a sign that I was supposed to try to save it. In the past 3 years H sister left her husband, BOL left my sister and then my mom left my dad. All of these marriages had other issues like abuse and addiction but they all also ended in affairs. I thought we had made it but I guess it was just the beginning.
Take $500 out of the bank and hire a PI to get access to all of OW's family. Get the names/addresses/etc. of anyone he works with (his other friends). Saving your marriage is worth the money.
Then sit down and write/call all of them in one day - including your H's siblings, cousins, and aunts and uncles. Otherwise, they'll go to those you haven't yet called, and tell them you're a crazy person and not to listen to you.
It doesn't matter what proof you have. All you have to tell people is that he is leaving you and moving into her 'spare bedroom' - and make sure you use the quote marks! They will ALL understand what's really going on.
And by all means, DO write - individually - to the president, VP, CEO, and legal department of his company. Do it individually so someone doesn't realize what you're doing and run to stop the others from being delivered.
I know my marriage is worth any amount of money unfortunately we live absolutely pay cheque to pay cheque so there isn't 500 dollars to get at. I told My MIL and SIL today and even one of his old best friends whom is a female he met at work and knew him until a few years ago. She may be able to get me access to the one friend from his work that I only know the first name of and I am going to contact him and the one other friend who I do know.
He doesn't talk to any of his other family, and he has no other friends.
My MIL says she won't take sides, and I told her that that wasn't what I was looking for.
My SIL (who actually cheated on her own husband and is now living with OM and has 2 kids by him) said she couldn't believe that her brother would do something like that. She said that he loves me and the boys so much she is just in shock.
I have a rough draft of the letter for his work and I will be mailing them out as soon as I get the addresses for them all.
I don't know what to expect from his workplace but I will definitely be bracing myself for the day he finds out what I did. I am doing this for the best Head high and still smiling.
I know my marriage is worth any amount of money unfortunately we live absolutely pay cheque to pay cheque so there isn't 500 dollars to get at. I told My MIL and SIL today and even one of his old best friends whom is a female he met at work and knew him until a few years ago. She may be able to get me access to the one friend from his work that I only know the first name of and I am going to contact him and the one other friend who I do know.
He doesn't talk to any of his other family, and he has no other friends.
My MIL says she won't take sides, and I told her that that wasn't what I was looking for.
My SIL (who actually cheated on her own husband and is now living with OM and has 2 kids by him) said she couldn't believe that her brother would do something like that. She said that he loves me and the boys so much she is just in shock.
I have a rough draft of the letter for his work and I will be mailing them out as soon as I get the addresses for them all.
I don't know what to expect from his workplace but I will definitely be bracing myself for the day he finds out what I did. I am doing this for the best Head high and still smiling.
It sounds like the workplace letter may be your best defense. And then Plan A like crazy.
Okay, I know what I have to do is Plan A. What exactly should I and shouldn't I do while in Plan A? I don't have my book yet and I couldn't find the info on here that detailed any guidelines. If anyone can tell me that much to start with until I get my book that would be great so I don't do further damage in the meantime
He hasn't admitted to an affair and I don't think he ever will. How do I go about doing this the right way? I have been kind of a crazy person for the past 2 years with jealousy and insecurities. I know that he lied to me a lot because I found out and confronted him. 2 weeks ago for the first time in our marriage, he stayed out all night and didn't call me until the morning when he had an excuse about falling asleep on his male friend's couch. Of course I knew it was a lie but I didn't get angry or even really react to it. I let him believe that I believed his story but I know deep down that it is a lie.
We don't hold hands or kiss or hug. We sleep in the same bed still but it is only sleeping. I see him looking at me sometimes and I know that he still feels something for me but it is hidden behind these other feelings. It is seriously like he is possessed.
He doesn't talk about things and he definitely doesn't want to talk about any relationship things. We are going to have to live together until February and I know I can keep myself together in front of him until then. I have a lot of caring friends and great support.
When he leaves he will still be coming here to watch our children while I am at work so do I implement Plan B then? I had plans that I would walk out the back door when he was here and not answer the phone when he calls for the kids. Is that what I should do?
Can someone please tell me what I am supposed to be doing in Plan A? Do I make home seem nice by doing good things like taking care of the kids fully, making dinner and generally just not bringing up anything that is painful? That's what I have been doing for 3 weeks since I found this site.
I just kind of live life like nothing is going on unless he wants to talk about something. I also make sure to show him that I am having a good time with the kids and when he plays with them he looks at me to see what I am doing and I make sure he sees me smiling.
I felt really lost and helpless before I found this site and all of the concepts and other things on here have helped so much Thanx
For Plan A, read up on Emotional Needs. Figure out what his top three are and put your efforts into meeting those. If Sexual Fulfillment (SF) and Affection (A) are in the top, those will be tough to meet with you guys living like roommates, but there are still things you can do.
If SF is a top need of his, dress to show off your best assets. Touch him lightly on the arm or leg when you talk to him. Lean over and show some cleavage. Tell him a really good dirty joke. Wear your greatest underwear.
Most guys have admiration as a top EN. Pay attention to stuff he does and admire him for it. Admiration is especially strong, IMO, when you admire him to someone else, but where he can hear it. "John grilled out Wednesday night and it was soooo good. I can't hold a candle to his cookout skills." "You should ask John about that; he's a wizard when it comes to XYZ." Or if you need help with something, ask him to help you figure it out, fix it, solve it - and then admire him for being so good at that type of thing.
Many guys have Recreational Companionship as a high EN. So do really fun stuff that you know he'd enjoy. Invite him along (don't expect him to accept). Go and have a blast. Then tell him "Oh, it was great! You would have absolutely loved it, it's a shame you didn't go" - but don't nag him about not going. Just let him know he's missing out on time with a really fun gal.
Plan A does NOT mean being a doormat and doing "anything it takes" to make him happy. If he lies, tell him matter of factly "You and I both know that's not true." then change the subject "Can I get you some tea?"
There's a thing that gets passed around here called "The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A". Hopefully someone will post it here or you'll see it on another thread. It does a good job of illustrating the balance between meeting ENs and not getting walked on.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
Thanx, I am finding this really helpful. All of my RL friends can't believe that I am not just kicking him out right now, kicking her butt and that I am even considering taking him back(when/if he wants to come back that is).
It is worth it to me. My MIL just says she doesn't get involved in these things. My SIL and his previous bestfriend say they are in complete SHOCK(my response was "tell me about it"). They just keep saying they can't believe he would do this to me and our boys because he loves us so much. I have read enough on here to see how it happened.
I am working on a solid Plan A with the suggestions from you all and we will see where it goes from there.
I do believe that his top 3 EN are Admiration, SF, and RC. I know we had many arguments in the past about not enough SF, not laughing at his jokes or thinking he is funny anymore.
He plays in a Pool League and I attend every week. I realized 3 weeks ago that I stopped showing interest in the games and he stopped talking to me about them. I started showing more interest in the games and it seemed to perk him up and even other people noticed he was talking to me more.
I thought we were going in a good direction until I found out he had taken off his wedding ring. I dunno what he is trying to do. I am going to do my best and I believe that everything happens for a reason I just hope in the end I still have a good marriage.
Its really really important that you not cooperate with him.
Do not operate from a place of fear and give in to his requests, or accomodate his plan.
It is NOT ok for him to plan on leaving in February -- and you were wrong to agree to it. It is NOT ok for him to move in with OW, and you do NOT want to give the impression that you believe for one second that it will be in a spare room.
You need to change the fact that he goes out on Friday and Saturday nights without you. His most enjoyable recreational time should be spent with YOU.
It sounds like you need to change jobs so that your schedule is more available to spending time with him and time as a family.
Time to get creative, instead of just saying 'I can't afford a PI.'
You have friends, right? Ask them to help you by following him. Tell them his schedule, and ask them to cover the times when he is away from you (aside from the hours inside the work place), and tail him, with a camera.
It shouldn't be that hard to come up with a list of locations he drives to.
Also, you can buy a voice-activated recorder from Radio Shack and put it under the seat of his car (attach it with velcro) and tape who he talks to in the car.
If you're going to be away from home while he is home, borrow someone's video camera and hide it in the bookcase or something, and record the room you expect him to spend the most time in.
Find anyone you know at his work, and ask for their help in letting you know what he does there.
Thanx, I am finding this really helpful. All of my RL friends can't believe that I am not just kicking him out right now, kicking her butt and that I am even considering taking him back(when/if he wants to come back that is).
Ah, yes, the friends who DON'T HAVE A CLUE about marital commitment. I've got a few of those. So easy for them to say things like that, having no idea what it's really like. Come to think of it - I had the same attitude. Then it happened to me.
I can't keep him in the house. He has told me that it is over between us so what am I supposed to do? He also told me that he doesn't want to work on anything, he is DONE. I can still save this marriage with the tools I have and I know that I have to get their A finished to truly move on but in the meantime I have to make home a place he wants to be right?
He hasn't admitted to anything beyond a friendship so he isn't acknowledging a problem with their "friendship". I tried over the past 2 years to enlighten him to the fact that they had an inappropriate relationship and it has been a major strain in our marriage. I did and said some pretty hurtful things for those 2 years and I know that it drove him away. No excuse to either of them doing this but I accept my responsibility for the part I played in the marriage breakdown.
He said "It just isn't working anymore and I just want us both to be happy." I told him I wasn't happy about this. His response is that I would be eventually.
If I am in Plan A, how do I talk to him about the feelings and the fact that I don't want him to go. I don't really know what to say to him right now. At first, I totally withdrew from him and even told him things like he wasn't part of our family anymore since he wanted to leave. I feel like I said some hurtful things because I was hurt and I felt lost. I excluded him from family things and ignored him most of the time. He became really polite to the point where he was thanking me for cooking dinner, doing laundry and even sweeping the kitchen floor. It drove me nuts and I told him so.
He is giving me a huge amount of mixed signals and I don't know what to believe when he talks to me anymore. He is possessed by something and I don't know what to say to him anymore.
What should I tell him now? Should it be that I do still love him, I don't want him to move out, I want to work on this to keep this marriage together, that I am going to do whatever it takes to stay together? Most of all that no matter what has taken place with her that I am willing to reconcile?
I am still keeping it together. Glad to get the advice from people who have done it since I know no one in RL who has. Keep it coming.
Wow what a difference a couple of hours makes. My H just called me from work and he told me that his cell phone was dead. He said he was calling to tell me that I don't have to make him dinner tonight because he is going out. I said "Tell OW I said Hi". I know it was an angry outburst but I was caught a little off guard.
I told him that I know that he is not moving in to her extra bedroom but that he is choosing her over his family and that I am not in denial about that anymore. I told him that I know that he is going out with her tonight and when the boys ask where he is I am going to tell them the truth. He was silent. I told them that when he leaves us I will also tell them the truth about that too. He said that that is my choice and it is low for me to use the boys like that. I said that I am not using the boys I am just no longer lying to them about what is going on. I don't think he was expecting this kind of conversation today I think he expected me to just say "OK see you later".
He asked me to give the boys a hug and kiss for him and tell them that he loves them and I told him NO. I said that it is unfair to me to do that when he is not showing love to them by choosing to take time away from them to feed his addiction. I told him that I know that he feels like he loves her right now and although that is not ok with me I am willing to work through it to keep this marriage together. His response was that there is nothing to keep together.
I am kinda falling apart right now but I am gonna try to keep strong.
Cat: thanx it felt kinda amazing at the time that I actually had that much self control......
Well, I seem to be getting some kind of reaction out of him which I think is a positive thing anyways.
On Friday night, he came home at 930pm. I was in total shock. He usually doesn't come home until after midnight.
Then I started to do the little things suggested to me on here where I touched his hand, and even worn a PJ that showed off my "best assets". When he put the boys to bed on Saturday, he said "is there any reason you are flashing our children?" I said "Nope. It's just hot in here." I didn't even think that he noticed because I hadn't even seen him look at me.
Last night when I went to bed I kissed him on the cheek and said Good night. I woke up at 3am and noticed that he was sleeping as far away from me as possible. I could think of that as a bad sign but I actually think of it as maybe the fact that I am getting to him and he is trying to pull himself away. I think he was sure of his decision to leave and now he is confused again. I mailed the exposure letters away to their work today so now I just wait to see what happens.
I think you are doing a stellar job. You are a MB poster child right now.
One thing I would caution you about is relationship talk during Plan A. This can get tricky, and is a bit of a balancing act. On the one hand, you MUST call him out on his lies. You did a great job of that by telling him you're no longer in denial etc. Don't enable his fantasy! Don't make it easy for him to tell himself "Everyone will be fine, we're all going to be happier in the long run." You're doing this part *great*.
The stuff you want to avoid is talking about what went wrong, what needs fixing, whose at fault in what areas, etc. I wouldn't even tell him that you now recognize you did things to drive him away. All he will hear is you saying "Yes I forced you to have an affair, you are innocent." Focus on eliminating those love busters and let your actions speak for themselves. Focus on you, you, you.
I wouldn't mention Marriage Builders to him either, or any of your newfound info. It's hard sometimes because as you learn the MB principles, things fall into place, lightbulbs go off, and you get excited to run share this with your spouse. He is NOT in a frame of mind to hear this right now. Later (months later, perhaps) you can bring it up but NOT NOW. Right now it will come across as huge fat Disrespectful Judgment. You, being all superior in your knowledge, preaching to him, the poor stupid incompetent. Don't go there.
So don't enable the affair, but don't examine the marriage or try to fix it yet.
Thanx for the advice on not talking about the things that went wrong. I had done that at first and I even was trying to tell him about the things that would happen when he left. Some of the things he said "I am not STUPID. I already know that stuff." and other things he said was "I am not like other people." I realized pretty quickly that that was NOT working.
I have not told him about MB. If I did I think he would actually take that as a bad sign.
I talked a bit about our relationship in the way that I said that I was willing to do whatever I had to to keep this relationship together. I also said that no matter how far this affair has gone I am still willing to stay with him and work through it.
I have been playing with the kids more in front of him and whenever they push my buttons, I make sure to take a deep breath and relax before dealing with them. WH and I have had many arguments about me not dealing with the discipline part very well so I have thrown myself right into it. I have assumed all of the Domestic responsibilities and making sure bills were taken care of etc.
I have decided that whenever he says anything remotely funny, I make sure to smile and laugh. I am going to try to say positive things about him when he is within earshot but that may be a lot harder to accomplish.
Thank you everyone for your advice so far. I hope to be able to thank you all in the best possible way, when my WH and I are recovered and happy again.
Right now he hasn't admitted to any affair. He still says they are just friends (PUH-LEASE). He also says that there is nothing left for me to save. He says it is over and done and he is leaving no matter what I say or do.
I know he is in a total "FOG" right now and he only sees OW as a good thing and his best possible move right now. He doesn't want to work on us so I am just Plan Aing the crap right outta this marriage. I can handle it for a while and i think that I will continue it until just after he leaves. Then I wil be onto Plan B as he will be living in her home.
Right now there is no reasoning with him so I am not even trying to. I know he loves me and right now he is actually worried whenever I am late coming home from work. He thinks that I am going to leave him. I told him that I am not leaving.
I am not blindly trusting him anymore. I was trying to believe him for the past 2 years and I was hoping that he wasn't anything more than friends with her even when he was telling me he was leaving me to move into her "extra bedroom". I am not in denial anymore but I also am not going to believe that he just stopped loving me either. He is giving me mixed signals and he is saying different things all the time.
I don't believe I am in a FOG right now I am just trying to work on this and stay positive. I am an optimist and I know to many it may seem like I am grasping at straws. Well maybe I am but those straws are what is helping me not drown.
It is hard to deal with a WH that doesn't want to be in the M anymore and before I found this site and this forum I felt alone and helpless. I know it would be a lot easier if my WH wanted to work on things but he isn't. He has been in complete withdrawal for at least 6 months previous to DDay. I am just trying to do what is best for my M with the tools and opportunities I have right now.
I'm not sure I would be saying this any more. WHs HATE to think that their BW wouldn't be sitting around the house, pining for them, begging for scraps. It is part of what ATTRACTS them to an affair; it feeds their ego.
IIWY, I would find some things that need to be done outside the house, where you need him to watch the kids. He gets home, you're dressed nicely, smell good, makeup on, even if you're just going to the drugstore. (but make sure you take time to go through all the magazines, no matter how long it takes!)
Let him SEE that you have a life outside of him. He needs to realize this. Many men simply don't. They think that, once they give you a wedding ring, they don't have to work at it any more - you'll stick through anything.
When I told him I wasn't leaving what I meant was that it wasn't me that was walking out the door. He keeps telling me that he thinks I am just going to pack up the kids and move and not tell him where I am going. Should I let him just think that?
I have been dressing up more and wearing perfume but I wasn't going out that much by myself. I think i will take your advice for sure. Maybe I will start watching a lot of movies at the nearest theater and take up reading some books in the car at a park. Should I tell him when I have plans though? Just something like "Oh, I am going out tomorrow after work." I am not going to tell him what I am doing, or where I am going but should I tell him anything?
I am bracing for the day when his workplace receives the exposure letter.
Why not? WHs typically cannot STAND to think that their nice, sweet wife would EVER want anything but to stay at home pining for them. That's half the appeal of having an affair - he's got two women begging for his time.
Yes, tell him you have plans. Don't shove it in his place, just couch it in terms of 'oh, can you watch the kids? I have to get somewhere tonight.'
I m having a really bad day today. What do I do when I know that he is contacting her and now hiding it from me completely? He changed his password for his email today and now I searched my computer and found that he logged on to web messenger. I think that's why he changed his password so I couldn't find out what he said.
Is there a keylogger that he won't be able to find on here?
I want to just go to him and tell him to stop lying to me and I am really angry. I was supposed to go to work tonight but I can't. This morning there was a flat tire on our truck and he was late for work. I asked him if he called and he said he did but I didn't find it on redial at all.
I dunno what I am supposed to do right now. I am trying hard to be in plan A as I think Plan B would be hard to do while he is still living at home. When WS feel that BS are doing things to make it better do they do things to make us angry and try to pull away? I really don't know what it is I am supposed to do right now.
I found one sided chats.......I used WH credit card so I dunno how long I will have it on but there is enuff there that I know that they have had sex......what do I do? Do I let him stay still and do I not tell him anything and stay in Plan A
You can lovingly confront him, letting him know quietly and calmly that you know they are having sex. Just DO NOT reveal the source of your intel. Keep the channel open as long as you can, but even if he finds out, you know enough.
he did find out and when I went to bed he was awake and unfortunately I didn't do so great......
I wasn't loud or even crying but I told him that I know all about it and then I made a big mistake and I called OW.......I talked to her for an hour while he sat there and listened and I said some stuff.......
It wasn't nasty but I am not proud of myself......Should I just consider this a learning experience and try to Plan A again?
I don't have the books yet should have them in 3 weeks or so so I am flying blind here......
I have exposed as much as I can, unfortunately I told them about it too. I was having extreme verbal diarrhea and I wasn't able to stop myself as I was seeing RED. I know I screwed up but can I still save it? It was hard to do the Plan A the first time but I had gotten good at it until I saw what he was writing.
I was sure that he was going to leave me this morning but not yet. I tried to make OW see how wrong morally this was and I even told her some things about our relationship to show her that he is lying already. She was pretty quiet at first and then she became upset.
I just hope I can still do SOMETHING to save what I had done so far and maybe redo because I know I can't Plan B until I plan A right?
I feel like an idiot for letting my emotions get the better of me.
I installed a key logger and he did find out and when I went to bed he was awake and unfortunately I didn't do so great......There was enuff that I know they have been having sex A LOT
I wasn't loud or even crying but I told him that I know all about it and then I made a big mistake and I called OW.......I talked to her for an hour while he sat there and listened and I said some stuff.......
It wasn't nasty but I am not proud of myself......Should I just consider this a learning experience and try to Plan A again?
I don't have the books yet should have them in 3 weeks or so so I am flying blind here......
I have exposed as much as I can, unfortunately I told them about it too. I was having extreme verbal diarrhea and I wasn't able to stop myself as I was seeing RED. I know I screwed up but can I still save it? It was hard to do the Plan A the first time but I had gotten good at it until I saw what he was writing.
I was sure that he was going to leave me this morning but not yet. I tried to make OW see how wrong morally this was and I even told her some things about our relationship to show her that he is lying already. She was pretty quiet at first and then she became upset.
I just hope I can still do SOMETHING to save what I had done so far and maybe redo because I know I can't Plan B until I plan A right?
I feel like an idiot for letting my emotions get the better of me.
Just pick up and go on. If this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, it wasn't a M worth saving anyway. Chances are that this one episode won't change the outcome.
However, repeated bouts of "verbal diarrhea" (cute! )grow progressively more likely to do damage to your chances of R.
Get a firm grip on yourself, and don't give them any more ammo. Be deep, mysterious, and very, very cunning. This is a war. Do not send the enemy your battle plan or any of your covert intel.
It's a whole new day, so get right back to Plan A'ing.
Thanx for the encouragement......I really do think it is worth saving.
One thing that she said to me really does hurt though and I just need to get it off my chest. My H and I had always said that if anything was to happen that he would not take the kids from me. While I was talking to her (and letting her fight HIS battles) she said that my WH would have total access to the kids and that she wouldn't stand in their way (in response to my saying that he would only be spending about 13 hours a week with them).
I responded by saying, "Yea but only until a lawyer got involved" and then she said "Oh well I can just take them from you then. I have the room and I don't mind." I was so upset that I just said out loud "Oh you want to take the kids away from me, their house, family school and friends" Her response was "Oh no there's a house that's for rent down the street from you and we will just move there"
I didn't react to that but after I hung up I asked my WH if he was going to try to take the kids and he said no. I know that there is no reason to take them away from me. I just was so upset and I let her get to me. OH I am not happy about OW right now.
Thanx for the encouragement......I really do think it is worth saving.
One thing that she said to me really does hurt though and I just need to get it off my chest. My H and I had always said that if anything was to happen that he would not take the kids from me. While I was talking to her (and letting her fight HIS battles) she said that my WH would have total access to the kids and that she wouldn't stand in their way (in response to my saying that he would only be spending about 13 hours a week with them).
I responded by saying, "Yea but only until a lawyer got involved" and then she said "Oh well I can just take them from you then. I have the room and I don't mind." I was so upset that I just said out loud "Oh you want to take the kids away from me, their house, family school and friends" Her response was "Oh no there's a house that's for rent down the street from you and we will just move there"
I didn't react to that but after I hung up I asked my WH if he was going to try to take the kids and he said no. I know that there is no reason to take them away from me. I just was so upset and I let her get to me. OH I am not happy about OW right now.
Don't waste your energy even thinking about OW. They are all crazy. They seem to think that it is us BS that are the bad guys in all this. They have a sense of entitlement that matches WS and know that their gravy train can halt at any time so they panic and say nasty things because that is all they can do. Most of it is lies they have told themselves or lies that WS has told them.
Honestly, don't think about it any more. Send a letter to her parents and see how she likes that.
One thing that she said to me really does hurt though and I just need to get it off my chest. My H and I had always said that if anything was to happen that he would not take the kids from me. While I was talking to her (and letting her fight HIS battles) she said that my WH would have total access to the kids and that she wouldn't stand in their way (in response to my saying that he would only be spending about 13 hours a week with them).
I responded by saying, "Yea but only until a lawyer got involved" and then she said "Oh well I can just take them from you then. I have the room and I don't mind." I was so upset that I just said out loud "Oh you want to take the kids away from me, their house, family school and friends" Her response was "Oh no there's a house that's for rent down the street from you and we will just move there"
I didn't react to that but after I hung up I asked my WH if he was going to try to take the kids and he said no. I know that there is no reason to take them away from me. I just was so upset and I let her get to me. OH I am not happy about OW right now.
THIS is where, if you aren't careful, getting down and dirty in a nasty fight with a low class trampolean can get you in trouble. She beats you with her experience.
She doesn't give a rat's butt about your kids. She only said that to incite you and get you to love bust your husband more (further solidifying her efforts to steal him). She also wanted YOU to react more "crazy" towards her...such that, later on, SHE can play the hurt little girl that was attacked by mean vindictive wifey to your WH.
Force is the control of the balance of power, in accordance with advantages.
In Plan A ... the BS restores their power to affect change. Plan A gives the BS an advantage with their intimate knowledge of their spouse's ENs.
Warfare is the Way of deception.
Deception meaning .... showing more strength than you might possess at that given time ! Hiding your weaknesses. Plan A ... not begging, crying, pleading ... standing tall and presenting a self ready to battle & fight for the marriage.
Therefore, if able, appear unable,
Plan A ... let your WS provide you with things that save your energy for future need.
if active, appear not active,
When snooping about like a squirrel searching for seeds of the affair, appear calm & serene ... Plan A snooping is done quietly & without announcing >>> "Ah-Ha ... Look what I found !". Be stealth.
if near, appear far,
Plan A ... keep your WS guessing where you are.
if far, appear near.
What seems just out of reach is sometimes more attractive. What seems a sure thing, is taken for granted.
If they have advantage, entice them;
Offer the WS goodies ... as in meet their ENs.
if they are confused, take them,
Plan A is confusing to the WS. They would prefer the BS appear ugly & unattractive in order to justify their cheating. It is confusing for the WS to see an attractive BS.
if they are substantial, prepare for them,
Plan A ... get all your ducks lined up. Legal preparations. Financial preparations. Spiritual preparations. Etc.
if they are strong, avoid them,
Plan A is not plan doormat. They can wipe their feet elsewhere, but not on your back. Accepting abuse is not an attractive trait.
if they are angry, disturb them,
LOL .... this is precicely Orchid's "reverse babble" .... The WS speaks with foggy tongue, disturb them with O's reverse babble.
if they are humble, make them haughty,
If the WS is over-confident, they become sloppy & make errors.
if they are relaxed, toil them,
Keeping an affair going is exhausting to the WS. It's like a juggling act. Throw the WS another ball to keep in the air. The affair will fall when the juggler becomes exhausted by the added effort.
if they are united, separate them.
Do not become the fool that encourages both the WS and the OP to join forces. If you act insane during Plan A, they have a common enemy to fight ~~~> YOU !
Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect.
Do the UNexpected in Plan A. Keep the WS guessing & wondering.
This specialized warfare leads to victory, and may not be transmitted beforehand.
Do not give away your plans.... do not show the WS your books. Do not invite the WS to this site. Stealth.
Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made
Plan ... you must have a Plan or you will suffer & be defeated.
before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made
Don't waste time flailing about .... get organized & recruit helpers.
many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations
Do not proceed by your feelings alone. Develop your plan.
By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!
The BS who refuse to develop & follow a plan, are most likely to fail.
Do you understand what this is saying? Shut off the verbal diarrhea valve and become a warrior in deed, not words ... fighting for your marriage and your family.
Let the enemy (OW and the WAYWARD) reveal their plans ... you act you do not REACT ....
Strength can be yours , if you PLAN instead of talk and respond.
Any future (accidental) verbal engagements with the OW enemy ... laugh at nearly everything she says ... JUST laugh & smile and nod.
If you must speak, say ONLY innocuous things like:
"Really?" "You don't say" "Well, who knew?" "Is that a fact?" "Is there more?"
You get HER to reveal her plans/thoughts/feelings while you reveal nada/nuthin'...
You can use this same list of "pocket responses" when your WH babbles nonsense to you. "Pocket responses" are part of your plan to get THEM to show you their weaknesses. You think of these responses before hand and just pull one out of your pocket when necessary, so you don't lose your cool.
If you feel yourself losing your cool, you say an exit line, such as:
"Well, I've got somewhere else to be. Bye." "Sorry to cut you off, gotta go." "Would you excuse me?"
And you GO without saying where or when you'll be back. You do not allow yourself verbal diarrhea ... come to the MB forum and unload any venting or worries or anything ... you dump it here and remain calm/mysterious and controlled ALWAYS when in the presence of the enemy.
WH intends moving in with OW("extra bedroom") in Feb 2009
This is in your tag line. Is this still their "plan"?
It's EXCELLENT to know their plans ahead of time.
Here's my suggestion ...
From now to a week before Christmas you plan A your butt off.
You make "home" so freaking wonderful that WH thinks he's fallen into a tub of golden love deposits. You bake, cook, decorate, play music, dance, laugh, play cards and board games with the kids ... and in general become a woman who looks/smells/behaves like a GODDESS.
Then, around Dec 14-16 ... just AFTER any school performances the kids are in .... you take his personal belongings (clothes, toiletries, etc) and PACK them up and when he gets home from work, you tell him you are in too much pain for him to remain in your "home" [say "home" as much as possible in conversations] and he needs to move out right away. You: "Your adultery is killing me slowly. In respect to my feelings, you need to go right now."
WH: "What about Christmas?"
You: "Unfortunately, the kids will be splitting Christmas from now on. You can pick them up after 2 PM Christmas morning."
Hand him the Plan B letter and get him O U T. BEFORE the Christmas/New Year "home is where the heart is" activities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You see, in WH's mind .... he will not be losing his family after he moves into OW's house in Feb, he'll still have his "home" (come and go as he pleases) and he'll have OW whenever he wants.
Make the reality of his plans sting like a thousand wasps have discovered his [censored].
This will work like nothing else if you plan A like your family/marriage depends on it....
Pepper- thanx for all the insight. No we are no longer having sex but that was partly my own doing. We haven't had sex for 2 months but now I know that even when we were having sex he had started having sex with her.
One of his highest EN is SF. I am not going to be able to meet that one without actually having sex. It is funny though because after I got off of the phone with her WH accused me of having sex with other men because he said I wasn't interested in sex with him so I musta got it somewhere else. I kinda let him believe it and I forget exactly what I said but he said "see you admit it". I HAVE NEVER but I am not going to make him feel better by letting him know that.
As far as the asking him to leave, I don't know about that one. My birthday is Dec 18th so maybe I will give myself a bday gift. I just feel like he WANTS me to kick him out so that's what he can tell people when they asked why he left and then he can look better. I am Plan A again but it is still really hard. He left at 630am and I thought he was going to work. He shouldn't have been home until 6pm but he came at 4pm. I said "Oh it wasn't busy?" He said "Nope I didn't go to work. I went to her house instead" I just said "OH?" and then I went for a short drive.
Cat- I exposed to MIL, SIL (although he doesn't really talk to his family), old best friend, my family and friends, our mutual friends who are like surrogate parents to us and I sent the exposure letters to their work, today I also found a friend of theirs who works with them and I let him know and I told him to tall the man whom my husband was using as an excuse for a place to be when he was actually with her.
I have a bit of additional information for his workplace where he took her and her daughter on a business trip with him(their work paid for it) Should I bring this to their attention as well? Should it be in writing again?
There is a work xmas party next weekend and one of my friends is going. She said that she is going to tell the girl who called me 2 years ago so she can spread it through there too.
My WH said that when I came to bed last night he was so scared because he thought I had a knife. I told him that I wouldn't do anything to physically harm him and I was actually offended that he would even think that of me. He is pretty resourceful too because he found the Voice activated recorder I put in the car and turned it off. I think I am going to borrow someone else's and put mine back where I had it. Then he will think that he turned off the only one.
I also have a friend whose SIL works for a PI so she is going to try to find her family for me so I can expose to them too.
On a higher note: When my WH came home my DS (6) said "Daddy, did you hear OW's evil plan? She wants to take me and brother away from mommy." WH reply was, "Don't worry buddy noone is taking you away from your home."
Oh on another topic......i know I am not supposed to tell WH about this website or the books and I don't intend to. I googled my name though and it came up. I changed my name but it is still bringing it up. Anyone know how I can fix it? I don't want him to find it.
I have a bit of additional information for his workplace where he took her and her daughter on a business trip with him(their work paid for it) Should I bring this to their attention as well? Should it be in writing again?
Yes, and yes!
But, am I right in reading that you have NOT exposed to OW's family? Why not? Is she married? I forget. If so, even if she's divorced, let him know! And tell her parents, by all means. Siblings, best friends, coworkers...anyone who will reveal the adultery for the slime that it is. They need to be shunned in public.
The next time he flaunts his affair in your face like that, do something about it. Move his clothes out of your bedroom, for starters. Give him a consequence every time he throws it in your face.
Write to the mods and tell them that you need to see if they can do anything to hide or change your name in posts. If not, you may have to delete your threads.
Buy another keylogger, one that hides itself better.
Yes - move his stuff out of the masterbedroom pronto.
He's already setting the stage for an accusation of DV against you with the knife thing.
ALWAYS wear a voice activated recorder and make sure all interactions are recorded. When he makes such an accusation against you, you can ask him to clarify - and state "I see no sudden movements, no packing around of sharp objects. What could be harmful to you except your own illicit actions?"
He may want you to kick him out. It doesn't matter.
You're in this to win the war, not every skirmish. Follow Pep's most excellent plan, and stand back as reality comes crashing in on him. Your war is likely to end much sooner for separating shortly before the holidays. It's a powerful time of the year - take full advantage of it.
Quote
Dear Dr. Harley,
My husband and I have had a difficult marriage of 7 years as well as 3 years of living together before marriage. About six months ago, he informed me that he was very close to a woman in a nearby office. He said he was unsure of how he felt for her. After a week or so of "discussing" this situation, we agreed to work on our marriage if for no other reason, our 4 year old son.
My husband promised not to talk with the other woman other than in passing, but he did nothing to improve our relationship at home. He essentially moped around the house and pouted as if he had lost his best friend. I tried showering him with affection and attention and later found out he considered it "too much."
During this time we saw a counselor. My husband did not consider himself to be at fault for his relationship with the other woman. He thought the kiss they shared to be nothing. But last week he informed me that he is in love with her and "loves" me only because I am our son's mother. I threw him out of the house.
He discussed the situation with the other woman and they decided that too many lives would be negatively affected by a relationship between them. She has asked for a transfer to a different location to eliminate their daily contact. My husband wants to come home. He is unsure how he will deal with his feelings for this woman. He doesn't know if he will ever love me as a wife again but he wants to keep his family together.
I have not a clue as to what to do. Is it possible for him to love me again? Any insight or revelation is appreciated! I look forward to your response.
M.S.
Dear M.S.,
Your approach to the problem, so far, has been quite reasonable. First, you tried to meet needs that his lover was meeting, in an effort to win him back to you. But he was in an emotional state of Withdrawal, and wouldn't let you meet his needs (that's why he said you were doing "too much"). Then you asked him to leave when you found his relationship with the woman ever-increasing in intensity. Again you did the right thing. It's what I recommend in chapter 13 ("How to Survive an Affair") of my book, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage.
(emphasis mine)
So don't be afraid of asking him to leave. Do your groundwork first, just like Pep said, (woops, I typed Pepo - may start calling her that ) and don't be afraid to tell him to leave. The good Dr. H says so.
I have not exposed to OW family because I don't know who they are. That is why my friend is looking in to the PI for me. She is not and has not been married but by the sounds of it she has done this a few times.
So, it was really hard last night to do Plan A because we just sat there. He is completely withdrawn now, not even talking to me at all. He has been overly playful with the kids and it is making me mad.
When he does leave, he is supposed to be coming here to watch the kids while I am at work. How can I do a Plan B and still have that?
Am I right to understand that I need to do a Plan A first? Or do I just react to the next time he flaunts it by kicking him out of the room? I guess it is just that I wasn't understanding about Plan A and maybe I was doing it AND being a DOORMAT. So I CAN react to stuff just not by yelling and crying?
I don't know how to delete my posts. Can anyone help?
You Plan A everything ELSE in your life. Look great, smell good, cook his favorite food, keep the house immaculate, invite his friends over so he has good memories of the house.
But every single thing that has anything to do with the affair - you calmly and politely and STRONGLY do not accept anything that has to do with the affair. If he stops off at her house instead of coming home for dinner, eat without him and do not leave leftovers. If he leaves a family event to see her, turn off the lights and lock the doors for when he comes home. If he uses the internet to contact OW, tell him you're saving money by canceling internet; he'll get the hint.
So, be amazing, but every chance you get to point out that you will NOT accept having an affair shoved in your face - i.e., show you have self-respect.
But you have to know that you HAVE to contact OW's family and friends. You just have to. She has NO reason to give him up unless you make it hot for her. You're spinning your wheels if you don't.
I don't know how to delete my posts. Can anyone help?
Mooo,
If this is related to being found by Google, I think the problem is your very distinctive choice of names. If you choose a name that is more like an ordinary word, there is no chance that someone will sift through all the Google results that come up. Your current name isn't a proper word, so it will appear right at the top of the search engine results list.
I Googled my name, and there was so much stuff about sugar cane that I could not begin to read it all! There was nothing in the first several pages from MB, though.
Call yourself Snow White and you'll have no problems. You don't have to delete the previous threads; just ask for them to be merged under your new name.
Sugar- Thanx for that advice I did it so hopefully they can change it.
Cat- I DO know that I have to expose to OW family and as soon as I find them I will.
After reading the advice last night I decided that I would move him out of our room this morning. He was out getting the tire fixed. I moved his stuff in to the dinning room (we have a 2 bedroom house). I then took DS x 2 to the Santa Claus parade.
As we got to parade my cell rang and he asked if that meant I was kicking him out. I said "Not out of our house, just out of our room." He said "Where am supposed to sleep?" I said "Where you sleep is no longer my concern." He said "I can't sleep on the couch, my back is too sore." I said "Well you do what you have to." Then I thought he said "Well I am in the truck and I am going." I thought he meant he was leaving.
So, I watched the parade with my kids and family and friends and cried a bit. I went to his old best friend's house(he now only has her and her friends as he has slowly gotten rid of the rest of his own by not talking to anyone). I hung out with them for a while(Old bestfriend used to be BIL). Then I came home and he was here.
He was very angry with me when I got home because I erased his profile on our computer by accident while I was cleaning out my history (I don't even know what I did). He thought I did it on purpose. Then I had to go to the doctor's to get a needle so I said "Do you mind watching the kids for a while?" I got up and he said, "Tell WHOEVER I said HI". I said "What?" and his response was "You heard me" I put on makeup and perfume and walked out the door. He made a few comments about other men adn deleting my profile and playing games too. He was so mad. I have actually never seen him get mad without being prodded by me to a point where he can't hold it in any longer. I didn't respond I just walked out. Spent 2 hours out and came home and cooked dinner.
DS 9 is on a sleepover so DS 6 and I went to sleep in my bed to have our own sleepover. Then a couple of hours later WH CAME TO BED. I was asleep and I heard him come in. I got mad and come down here to write to you all about it.
I think tomorrow I am going to buy a lock for my room door and lock it. Maybe I will put out an air mattress as a hint that that is where he can sleep if he wishes to stay here.
I have actually never seen him get mad without being prodded by me to a point where he can't hold it in any longer.
This is a very unhealthy dynamic. It has no place in a happy marriage, or one hoping to recover from infidelity.
Forget the air mattress. His path back into your room is simple - get rid of OW and start R.
Also, you can find OW's family/associate information by doing a paid Intelius search. It will list all people she has shared an address with, and it's usually not too hard to pick out her family members.
I think tomorrow I am going to buy a lock for my room door and lock it. Maybe I will put out an air mattress as a hint that that is where he can sleep if he wishes to stay here.
Scotland, did you see Pepperbands post about asking him to leave just before Christmas? He needs to move out. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life, but a very short plan that lasts no longer than FOUR WEEKS. I would get a lock for the front door and get him out of there.
As far as him watching the kids while you are gone, I would find another babysitter. He shouldn't be in the house at all anymore.
Don't beat yourself up about losing control earlier with the verbal diarrhea, (I got myself into the same mess with FWH, I think it's the pure Ontario H2O over here lol) but from now on .... control it.
WH needs to see YOU in control of your life, your family and your M.
Like what has already been said but needs to be repeated since it is so crucial to keeping a hold of your own sanity is ..... don't react to his irrational words. Look at him as if he were a person from another planet, in your H's body. Once I got on to this, it made Plan A somewhat more tolerable.
Pissin' contests are DEADLY, once you start down that path, it spirals out of control. Your best weapon is holding onto control.
WH needs to know that you will not tolerate a third party in a M that is meant for two.
So, right now I'm not sure where you are at. I don't see Plan A including moving H out of the bedroom.
A lock on your bedroom door is pointless, I also don't think this is the best scenario for your kids to witness.
Seems to me you Plan A your butt off, this means using the stick side too, not tolerating any words or actions that relate to OW, then you throw him out and go to a dark Plan B. Exactly what Pepperband said to do. No warning, his stuff is out on the driveway. Prepare your Plan B letter now.
Or you Plan B now, but it doesn't sound like WH would have a good imprint in his head of what your M could be.
I had to do this too, although I didn't do it right, I was in a rage .... not the best way.
Once he was gone, I felt relief, relief of not having to be subject to his crazy and hurtful words. I had to protect myself, protect what love and fight I still had to save my M.
Although removing my FWH from our home was to protect me, it gave him a dose of what life was like, with out his family.
Side note of finding out about OW, can you look her up on Facebook and then view her friends ... and go from there, looking up their phone #'s ????
His anger is a GOOD thing. You're not following his script, and that makes him uneasy and his uneasy feeling is expressed via anger.
What part of my (previous) advise do you disagree with?
I suggested a stellar Plan A for a few more weeks. Filling every EN he'll allow you to fill (putting him off guard by making him comfortable). Making yourself and your home as attractive as possible.
And then, like a flash - putting him O U T. (plan B) Not just out of the bedroom, like half-assed punishment, but out of the family - where he will actually get to experience the loss of you as his wife.
And Christmas season is the most emotional-family time there is ... perfect timing for Plan B.
Perhaps you want to choose a non Marriage Builders path. Am I incorrect when I suspect you are NOT going to follow the MB plans as we suggest?
Please let me know, because I will not bother with annoying MB advice if you plan to ignore it.
Pepper- I am NOT by any means saying that I don't want to follow anything you are saying I just don't know what I am SUPPOSED to do. I feel like I am drowning. I think I understand that my Plan right now is to Plan A till just before Christmas and then Plan B and kick him out.
What do I do when he goes to see her and doesn't hide it anymore or when I KNOW that he called her while I was at work and my kids were sitting right there. How do I Plan A and still make sure I am not a doormat? I really need some advice on that.
I hadn't been on at all yesterday so I didn't know what to do. I found out that he had called her from our home while he was watching the kids. I decided I would try to lock the door. He came up to go to bed and I wouldn't let him in. He tried for 1/2 hour and told me that he had paid for the bed and for the room and I couldn't keep him out. I responded with a "We paid for it" and he said "Yes WE did" Then I said that I would not like him to come in unless he was willing to give up his affair. He threatened to take the door off of the hinges and then he said he would just pack up his stuff and go sleep with someone else if that's what I wanted. I repeated what I said and he went downstairs. At 2am he came up and forced the door open. He simply went to sleep until he left for work this morning.
Pepper- I am confused by all of the different people on here telling me to Plan A and then kick him out or telling him to go now. I am new to the boards and I don't know who has the best advice. I am still waiting for my SAA book to come and I thought I could get some helpful advice while I was waiting. I just don't know what I am doing.
Please be patient with me as this really is against all of my instincts (that's how I know what I am doing is right).
When I found this site and read all the concepts and everything I could read, it made A LOT of sense to me and it felt like a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel. It felt like the universe had shown me exactly what I needed at a time that was crucial. I know I have not followed exactly what advice is given on MB. I am trying and I am willing to do what I have to.
I want to save my M because I know that it is worth it and I know who my WH truly is somewhere behind this alien mask. I have in the past tried to do things to help my marriage but I was flying blind. I really look up to the people on here, and I am in desperate need of help.
I am going to Plan A with the intentions of it only lasting till the week before christmas. I just need to know what I do when he tells me that he is with her, or going out with her or calling her. What do I say to THAT.
Pepper- I am confused by all of the different people on here telling me to Plan A and then kick him out or telling him to go now. I am new to the boards and I don't know who has the best advice. I am still waiting for my SAA book to come and I thought I could get some helpful advice while I was waiting. I just don't know what I am doing.
Scotland, I'm new to the board also, and I felt much like you with what I thought were conflicting points of view. What I have to realize is that I must consider all points of view and apply them to my own situation. That's the true value of this board.
Some of the best responses I have read so far are ones that I did not want to face. They have caused me to check my own motives and wishes. In many ways, this forum is like Al-Anon: we come here because of the other person, but find out what we need to do is to heal ourselves.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Please be patient with me as this really is against all of my instincts (that's how I know what I am doing is right).
When I found this site and read all the concepts and everything I could read, it made A LOT of sense to me and it felt like a bright light at the end of a dark tunnel. It felt like the universe had shown me exactly what I needed at a time that was crucial. I know I have not followed exactly what advice is given on MB. I am trying and I am willing to do what I have to.
I want to save my M because I know that it is worth it and I know who my WH truly is somewhere behind this alien mask. I have in the past tried to do things to help my marriage but I was flying blind. I really look up to the people on here, and I am in desperate need of help.
I am going to Plan A with the intentions of it only lasting till the week before christmas. I just need to know what I do when he tells me that he is with her, or going out with her or calling her. What do I say to THAT.
I hope someone can help me.
Beginner's advice here: Say or do nothing to enable the A! Acceptance is always about finding peace with something we disagree with. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Until it's time for Plan B.
And then Plan B with a vengeance. No quarter, no negotiation. Keep in mind, Plan B (and Plan A, for that matter) are FOR YOU. Your WS may never recover. Your marriage may not survive. But you can. And you will.
I also need some advice for the Plan B stage. WH had planned on watching the kids for me while I had to go to work. I could try to find some other people to watch the kids for me and rearrange my schedule so he doesn't have to. I am okay with that what I need help with is do I allow him to see the kids and what ground rules do I put in place for that? I know in Plan B that he is to have no contact with me but does that include the kids?
I have found some drafts of Plan B letter on here so I will be constructing my own over the next few days.
I am letting his work know the additional information that OW gave me about a business trip that he took her on.
He plays on a pool team and I am going to let them know tonight and I also am exposing to an online RPG that he plays. These are the only places that he talks to people and has "friends" although he isn't really close to any of them. Pepper- Do You think this is a good idea?
When he finds out about this stuff he will be angry which I am prepared for but does that still work in to Plan A. Like if he leaves before I ask him to do I still Plan A? I know I have to Plan A BEFORE I Plan B so I am just preparing myself for every possible outcome.
Plan A exists for you to show your husband exactly what he'll be giving up if he gives up on the marriage. Plan A does NOT include your acceptance of the affair. But Plan A does included NO relationship talk. In a true Plan A, I suppose you would not be forcing him to sleep on the couch. But you would be keeping careful notes of all the things you will (eventually) include in your plan B letter.
Plan A alone sometimes will shock the wayward out of the affair. But if it doesn't, that's what Plan B is for. And plan B is for YOU--Plan A involves only your GIVER and Dr. Harley says most women only have about 3-4 weeks in them for this type of stuff. When you feel you are at the end of your rope, that's the time for Plan B. And plan B is for YOU--to remove yourself from your husband's abuse. A side benefit of Plan B is that it forces the affair partner to now fulfill ALL your WH's ENs and often, that person fails miserably and it falls apart.
Here's where I am with this forum. I had to back away for about a week or two, because I realized so much of the advice I was getting was being filtered through posters' personal experience. I finally decided that I needed to talk to a professional and I made an appointment with Steve. He spent over an hour on the phone with me and helped me figure out my next step. To further illustrate how these well-meaning posters can sometimes not help, I did post a recap of my conversation with Steve on my thread and several people proceeded to pick it apart. But that didn't affect me as I place my trust and confidence in a highly trained professional for which I paid good money.
If you have the funds, I really recommend a call to the MB coaches. You can accomplish with them in one short hour, what months of regular MC will NOT accomplish.
Scotland, you don't go into Plan B, until you have all your ducks in a row. Until then, stick with Plan A. The *last* communication you have with him will be your Plan B letter.
Yes, he can see the kids. It's arrangned either through the letter or through your intermediary. What he does not get in this arrangement is YOU, in any way shape or form. Your Plan B letter should included a detailed way for him to be able to come home to you. That's vital. He has to know there's a path home but he also has to know he must exactly do as you say or he can't come home.
I had thought about him still coming here to watch the kids for me and me just going out one door as he came in the other but I know that wouldn't work. I might just have to quit my job or drastically change when I work so as not to need a sitter at all. I work for slightly above minimum wage and cannot afford to pay a sitter. I don't really have anyone else who can watch the kids for me. Maybe I can make a visitation plan for him. Can he have COMPLETE access to him where he can see him whenever HE wants. I also don't know where to find an IM person. He does have an old friend that I would be ok with talking to but I don't think he would agree to anyone. I really don't know where to go from here.
Scotland, I'm on my way to work so this will be quick. I know what you mean by 'what do I do' meaning you are looking for specific actions to take, I quite often wanted the forum in my side pocket guiding me.
This is from the link that Pep gave, The Art of War. This is a part of a post on that thread, the last 4 numbers are 4970 of this specific post. It will be helpful to read the whole thing.
For now, I hope it answers your question of the phone conversations.
"Mrs.W and OM would occassionally talk on the phone right in front of me. I occassionally demonstrated reasonable and understandable anger and frustration at such; however, occassionally I did not. Their conversations in front of me were designed by them to be of a "we're just friends" nature so I would join in the banter. I would engage the infidels in a three way conversation to frustrate THEM, to divide THEM. I don't recall anything I actually said. I just was delivering the message to OM that I was there and he was NOT. (remember OM was 750 miles away). OM no longer had unfettered access to my wife."
I agree with OurHouse that you should give the Harley's a ring. I think that this board is a valuable tool and you have access to this 24/7. There are many experienced people here.
Go with Pep's plan of keeping up a Plan A, then Plan B.
I understand that you are confused. Breathe and regroup.
p.s. if WH has his own cell phone and he so boldly speaks to OW in front of you, accidently drop that phone in the dishwater. Oops! Interrupt his conversations with OW, keep reminding him that he is committing adultery by having a third party in the M, and that this hurtful to his family etc .... get the idea.
It is funny though because after I got off of the phone with her WH accused me of having sex with other men because he said I wasn't interested in sex with him so I musta got it somewhere else. I kinda let him believe it and I forget exactly what I said but he said "see you admit it". I HAVE NEVER but I am not going to make him feel better by letting him know that.
ST,
Don't pretend to him that you might be 'dating' too.
You are a believer in marriage and therefore would never consider being unfaithful.
He needs to know this, especially as he he flaunts his A in front of you and your children's faces.
Do your kids understand what's going on? Do they know how very wrong it is for their father to be cheating?
Here's a Do and Don't Do list that will help you out..
DOs
1. Act Happy 2. Get a life (new activities, etc.) 3. repeat over and over..."I will make it" 4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone 5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point) 6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum) 7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc) 8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong 9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)
DON'Ts
1. Repeatedly say "I love you" 2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet 3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag 4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions 5. Argue, Reason or Plead 6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST) 7. Act helpless or depressed 8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble 9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea) 10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship" 11. GIVE UP
Plan A is also a time to negotiate a return to the M WITHOUT the OW. What control do you have over his actions? None. He can do what he wants...to a certain degree. You let him know his behavior is not acceptable in your marriage. He in turn is trying to negotiate a way to have both of you...you let him know this is not acceptable.
How do you do this? With love and respect...sure, he's not showing you love and respect, so how do you show someone love and respect when they are not showing you the same? With maturity, knowledge, and goddessness.
When he comes home and tells you he has spent the day with the OW, you say to him, "I cannot accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend, what would you like for dinner? How else was your day?" Yes, it is hard. You are hurt and in pain. You can do this for the short term. Everytime he pushes the OW in your face, you gently wipe your face off (metaphorically speaking) and let him know there is no place in your M for an OW. You don't yell, or move to action. You don't give the situation any of your energy except to let him know you will not accept a M with her (or anyone else) in it. He's looking for a fight, an excuse to run back to her and say to her..."My W is horrible, all we ever do is fight..."
The next time he accuses you of running off to another man, do not let that go...let him know you believe in a M between 2 people only, and will not accept any less. Nearly everything he says to you is an opportunity to express your willingness to work on the M when he has gotten rid of the OW.
BUT, do not beat him with it, he knows this, and only needs to be told when he is trying to get you angry again.
Please do not give her any of your energy. She is an annoying fly, a pest, an inconvenience, a distraction from the hard work of M.
And please reconsider a strong Plan A. Please nurture and love your H by allowing him back in your bed. Plan B should be a shock, not a slow death of the M. Yes, Plan A seems counter-intuitive, that's why so many will fall down the Plan D route, but we know otherwise.
How do you know what to do? Look deep in your heart and follow the advice hear that your heart is telling you to follow...
Read all the articles on here until the books arrive, especially the letters. Plan A is KEY. Plan B happens later to save your love, but right now, give as much as you can without losing all your love.
I had thought about him still coming here to watch the kids for me and me just going out one door as he came in the other but I know that wouldn't work. I might just have to quit my job or drastically change when I work so as not to need a sitter at all. I work for slightly above minimum wage and cannot afford to pay a sitter. I don't really have anyone else who can watch the kids for me. Maybe I can make a visitation plan for him. Can he have COMPLETE access to him where he can see him whenever HE wants. I also don't know where to find an IM person. He does have an old friend that I would be ok with talking to but I don't think he would agree to anyone. I really don't know where to go from here.
You're going to have to think through all of this...get your ducks in a row before you go to Plan B. You will have to come up w/ a schedule for when he can see the children. And see a lawyer about not allowing him to bring his affair partner around your children.
Most WS HATE Plan B and will do all they can to get you to end it. If he calls you, you let it go to your answering machine. If it is a question about the kids...you take your time replying to him....AND you email him back using as few words as possible...yes or no. If he goes through your IM, you will reply much faster. You train him.
Also, it's more important that YOU trust your IM, than HE does. You need someone who will filter his end of the conversation for you. Just give you the necessary facts minus any ugliness or pain.
Another thought. People on the boards often suggest very convoluted Plan B letters. Why not go with something similar to Dr. Harley's suggestion in "Surviving An Affair"?
Quote
My Dear Sue, I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.
I am not pretending that I am dating, I just am not telling him where i go every second like I used to. I am wearing makeup and dressing up just to go to the doctor's. I told him many times that I have never cheated and that I never would. I also told him that I believe in marriage and not divorce.
He thinks that I am going out with other guys when in reality it is nothing of the sort.
My kids totally understand what is going on and that what he is doing is wrong. I have told them that it is wrong and that it hurts a lot of people and that I want them to know that one day when they are married they are not supposed to do this to their family.
OW and WH didn't talk about anything in particular his side being mostly short one worded answers and the kids didn't even notice he was on the phone. I was at work. He hasn't started talking to her n front of me yet but I am expecting that to start soon.
Thanx for the post of the letter it is a good start.
I wanted the kids to have access to him totally by telling him that he could call the house and i would let them call and he could tell them that he was coming to see them. Is that the right thing to do?
I wanted the kids to have access to him totally by telling him that he could call the house and i would let them call
Good. You might want to consider getting them cell phones so they can call you whenever they are away from you, and so that their dad can call them directly.
Quote
and he could tell them that he was coming to see them. Is that the right thing to do?
During Plan B, he should no longer have access to the family home. As far as visitation goes, it is best to follow a schedule. That doesn't mean you can't be flexible though.
But, be advised , once you reach the RECOVERY stage, recovery is the hardest one yet ! (no one believes this when they are in plan A or B, but that's OK)
My H had a 2 year sexual/romantic affair. We have been recovered nearly 14 years (December is our D day month)
You will make mistakes. But you will make fewer mistakes than your WH if you stick to a plan.
For now, in Plan A - be as attractive as possible.
If WH does something outrageous, stick to responses that reflect how HURT you are and avoid all responses that are insulting.
Examples:
YOU are a liar and a cheat. I'm so hurt by what you are doing right now.
You can't live here and screw OW whenever you want. Let's do some family time, what is your schedule like?
Are you texting OW right now? Say nothing. Walk up to him and rub his neck. Put your other hand over the phone. Then say "Not now."
Remember, you can always say: I'm so hurt by what you are doing right now. and this remark is not a love buster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Preparing for Plan B all the while.
Things to think about. Contact an attorney. Get a free consultation if possible. Find out what your legal recourses are in your state regarding support if you separate. Do NOT file for divorce unless you want to be divorced.
Finances must be secured BEFORE plan B. If you can, get your own credit card, so the paper trail of money he spends vs money you spend is clear and traceable.
Very important you begin a daily journal. Put dates times places of anything that happens. Who What Where What time And put certain remarks in quotes, such as: H said he would "keep making car payments" once he moved out. Do not "vent feelings" in your journal (vent here on MB)
There is more to prep, but start with these basics.
Part of Plan A is to look good. So do whatever you can to make yourself delicious. Rest Relax Have as much fun time with the kids as possible - all under WH's nose.
If you are tempted with the verbal diarrhea, remove yourself and go for a walk or do something outside of your WH's view.
Plan A will exhaust you - which is why it must be for a limited period of time. Remember this is a strategy - temporary and NOT forever, so keep that in mind when your "taker" wants to kick some butt and stop your "giver" from doing a stellar plan A.
I'm going to be out of town for a few days. I wish you strength and wisdom.
Thank you. I have just been getting our IM in place so I am one step closer.
Thanx for the examples of what to say because my Taker seems to have my tongue right now and my Giver doesn't know what to say so this will help. I think I have been using my Taker for a long time and forgot where to find my Giver.
He told me that when he first moves out we will keep the finances the same. Should I separate them? I will get my own bank account and try to get my own Credit card (bad credit). I need to get bills in my name too and change the mortgage to the new account although I cannot afford to have it just on my own. My mortgage is actually less than a rental would be so I am desperately trying to keep it.
We have a mortgage life Insurance so that if one of us dies the house would be paid for so I thought I could keep his name on the house for those reasons.
Next Step, talk to a lawyer and find out my rights.
I'm not sure you have to completely separate your finances in a Plan B. In fact, the only things you should be hearing about from your IM should be about the kids or finances. A good IM will NOT pass along what WH is thinking, feeling, etc. Plan B is to shield you from all of that. Set up a joint account for all your bills; have WH deposit $$$ to cover housing, food, kids, etc, in there.
Ask him back into the bedroom. Giving him a foretaste of Plan B isn't in your best interests. If he asks you for an explanation, reverse babble. He doesn't make sense - why should you? "I really missed having you in the room, and I'm looking forward to when we can be a real family again." (Said with a bright smile.)
You can meet some of his needs for SF without actually doing the deed. Send him flirty texts or emails, let him know how attractive he is to you. Maybe he can catch a little peek of skin every now and again. All those things are part of meeting the SF need, while packing in the Admiration units, too.
As you think about the babysitting situation, pretend you are divorced and living in separate houses. You don't want him in your house at all. What will divorce look like, in reality? This is what you want to resemble, as closely as possible.
Your boys are old enough to walk out to the car - just have them ready to go when he gets there and send them out the door.
That would be a better first option, and looking for a sitter or quitting your job are further down the list.
This is just my own opinion, but I wouldn't worry about getting all the utilities in your name yet. If he left and a month or two went by, that would probably be a better time for a more drastic change. Plus, if you split the utilities ahead of time, it could tip your hand. Just have everything ready so you can do that if you need to.
Get your own bank account at the very minimum. A credit card is optional; you can totally survive without it.
Calling the Harleys is a great idea. Why not at least call the counseling office and see if they have any financial options that would fit your circumstances?
Prepare for Plan B, but focus on Plan A. What can you do today to show what an awesome wife you are? What can you appreciate about your WH? Reach as far back into the past as you need to.
What do you think his top 3 needs are? Hint: they are very likely to include SF, Admiration, and Domestic Support. How can you show him that you're going to be able to meet those needs for him?
If you run short on ideas, pop back on here and we can help.
Have a very specific visitation schedule when you get to Plan B. So figure out what you have to with your job. If it works for him to watch them during your evening hours -- where can he do that (not at HOME).
When you talk to the attorney -- find out if you are able to keep OW away from your children. Could you file a restraining order against her based on her comments?
When he is out, he will not be allowed to come and go on a whim. No dropping by, no unscheduled visits, no access to the HOME.
For the next 3 weeks -- be the girl he fell in love with. Flirt with him, court him.
Everyone keeps talking about reverse babble and I was wondering if someone has the link to that?
I never thought about the text and emails(DUH). I did buy myself a new PJ and it shows off my ASSETS and he actually said "Is there some reason you are flashing our children?" and my response was "What? Oh, it is just hot in here."
As far as his top 3 EN's I do think they are SF Domestic support and as long as me thinking he is funny, then admiration.
So it ok to tell him that I find him attractive and stuff like that?
Every few days I kissed him on the check before I went to bed but a couple of times he pulled away. Should it be overt like that or should I be more subtle? I was just so used to being one way that when he withdrew I did too and now I don't know what will push him away faster and what will keep him guessing.
What I recommend is having one or more Plan B addendums with the additional information laid out clearly. That way he gets the info, but it doesn't clutter up your letter.
As far as the kissing, I think everybody develops their own approach. Mine was the drive-by. I'd be there and gone before he had a chance to react, and especially to reject. Done flirtatiously and quickly, with no expectation (which he would see as pressure) to reciprocate, it worked great for me.
Well, I was ready to Plan A like crazy. The kids and I decorated the house for Xmas. I made dinner and it was ready as soon as he walked in the door. I made sure I did my hair up nice and got into my asset showing PJ's. I stuck the smile on, showed concern when he said that his back was sore, played with the kids and moved his stuff back in to the room.
Then about an hour after he came home he said he was going upstairs to watch the game and the kids followed leaving me alone and stumped as to what to do. I was throwing a little pitty party thinking that I hadn't done enuff and now it was too late. That's when a friend called.
She's one of those no none sense kinda girls and I told her what I was feeling like and she said that maybe I should write myself the reasons I want to save my M so when I feel like this I can remember what I want in the end. It's funny for her to say that because she also says if it were her he'd have been gone long ago. This is what friends are for I guess, to give you a kick in the pants when you need it.
The kids came down just now and said "Mommy can you tuck us in? Daddy fell asleep." So all the pity party was for nothing he had just been tired. I guess that's why I should wait to react to things until I have all of the details.
On another note, i did text message him but I noticed his phone was at home charging. I decided I would write him an email too. I was sitting here when he got it and I am not even sure he read it. I will keep trying I am not giving up that easily.
When you have such peaceful opportunities, pamper yourself.
His on-again off-again behavior is actually a good thing. It shows he's in a state of conflict, which is miles better than a state of withdrawal. (See Dr. H's articles on the 3 states of intimacy, or something like that. Withdrawal, Conflict, and Intimacy. Though not speaking specifically of A's, it's good info.)
Sounds like you had a good Plan A evening. The main point is not whether or not he chooses to enjoy it with you, although it's nice if he does. The point is to show him what he is and will be missing by separating himself from you and the kids.
Good advice. I am thinking about dinner 2morrow and I was gonna try a new recipe. Fingers Crossed it doesn't cause food poisoning hehehehehe.
Roller coaster ride of emotions is not fun but I need to get through this to make it I guess.
My work sitch and Plan B letter draft are done as well as IM in place. WOW I accomplished a lot for my Plans today.
I contacted a lawyer to find out what I have to do.
Can anyone suggest as an addendum what it is that I am supposed to write about what I need him to do before he can break the NC with me? I know I have to tell him that he has to end his affair and have NC with her FOREVER. He would have to no longer work where he does now (unless she leaves first). He would have to WANT to work on the marriage. Anything else?
The main point is not whether or not he chooses to enjoy it with you, although it's nice if he does. The point is to show him what he is and will be missing by separating himself from you and the kids.
Neak's right about this. Chances are most of the time he WON'T enjoy whatever Plan A stuff you do, because what you are doing in causing him conflict. Some of my best direct hits during Plan A left my WH confused, annoyed, and sometimes even PO'ed. Why??? Because he knew he was screwing up MAJORLY!!!....
Also, as far as the daycare sitch, you could always look for a new job. One that you could bring your kids to, like a daycare center, or the YMCA, or a city community center. Commmunity college's also have daycare centers for their students. They pay you AND you can bring your kids with you on the job....
Also, look into some employment that daycare is a perk. I know Bank of America pays for their employee's daycare.....
just a suggestion....
(and yes, open your own bank account now and start siphoning money into it.....and apply for a CC anyway...even if you do have bad credit, you may get one with a low balance, but you need to build up that credit somehow....)
Well, let's catch up on what happened today (again since he came downstairs and I had to close my other window).
First, around 430pm today he called me from work and I said "Hello". He said "I know you are....Hello?" and i said again "Hello" and he said "Who is this?" I said "It's me. Did you dial the wrong number?" It seemed like maybe he checked for a second. Then he said "Hello?" and I said "Hi is there something wrong with the phone?" He said "No, you just didn't sound like you. Maybe it's just the phone." I said "Well, I am in the kitchen and it is echoing." He said "Yea, maybe that's it. So did the boys go to school ok?" I said "Yea and they had a great day" He said "OK well that's ALL that I called for" and I said "OK Bye" I think it threw him off because I believe he was actually trying to call OW and dialed home by mistake.
He got home and was acting a bit like himself though. Then he commented on how I cleaned the house really well today so who helped? I told him I was just energetic. Then he asked "So who did you have over then?" I said "What do you mean?" He didn't answer and then I said "I believe in a marriage that only has 2 people, your dinner is in the oven"
He spent a couple of hours down here and I made sure to put on my SHOW. I played and joked with the kids. And when he played with the kids he looked at me too. I made sure I was smiling and that I laughed out loud. Then a couple of times I caught him looking at me. I think he got uncomfortable with his feelings because then he decided he was going to go to bed to watch the rest of the hockey game.
That was where we were at until he came downstairs and I was typing away and closed it. He looked at my screen on the way by but it was on facebook. As long as you all are telling me that I am doing the right things and I should expect this out of him and they are good signs then I have HOPE.
On another note. I faxed another exposure letter to his work with the additional info on the fact that he took OW and her daughter with him on a training trip. I also certified mailed the new letter to the same 4 people again. OW let that one slip.
I am working on finding OW mother and brother but I have to wait until my friend talkes to a fellow coworker of theirs on Saturday.
Yep, you're doing good! I also think you're right and he was trying to call her. Those poor widdle aliens get SO CONFUSED when they try to juggle too many mens or womens! You handled that superbly, as well.
This is going to get exhausting for him as he continues his juggling game. Let home be his refuge, and the OW the one harping at him for not spending enough time with her, and being jealous of you, nagging him about stuff, etc.
Be prepared for some major bumps in the road when they find out about the exposure. He will probably say he's done, that he was just thinking about picking you, and now he's not and you're horrible besides! Ride it out - when he's in his right mind he'll see things differently.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but the topic fits...
I installed a keylogger on the WW's laptop. Now that we're in Plan B and she's taken her computer with her, should I stop spying on her, or is it still "fair" to see what her frame of mind is?
Well, I am a little angry but not really surprised. He has now made it so I can no longer access Ebay Account, Paypal and his credit card (which he always said that is OURS).
I tried to buy a camera because our camera doesn't charge anymore. Well I guess he showed me.
Oh well I am gonna just have to learn from this what else he is going to do. Wow these Aliens sure are WAY different from the people we think we knew.
how do i deal with the anger that comes from the exposing? Doesn't exposing go against Plan A?
I know I need to expose and I have to everyone I can think of with exception of her family only because I have been unsuccessful at finding them. Even had a PI tell me to just get a Lawyer and a separation and forget about him. Of course I said "thanks for your advice" and hung up.
I exposed to family and friends, their work and even an online RPG game that my WH plays all of the time (he now changed the password on that too I bet he was ticked off when he found out)
I have to wait until their work party on Saturday (which I believe WH will be attending with OW) for a friend of mine to talk to the girl who called me 2 years ago and ask her to call me and talk to me about what she sees at work etc.
how do i deal with the anger that comes from the exposing? Doesn't exposing go against Plan A?
Exposing the A is part of Plan A. It's part of the "stick" portion of the carrot and the stick.
Originally Posted by Scotland
I know I need to expose and I have to everyone I can think of with exception of her family only because I have been unsuccessful at finding them. Even had a PI tell me to just get a Lawyer and a separation and forget about him. Of course I said "thanks for your advice" and hung up.
Not the PI's job. I've had people tell me the same thing.
Originally Posted by Scotland
I exposed to family and friends, their work and even an online RPG game that my WH plays all of the time (he now changed the password on that too I bet he was ticked off when he found out)
Still Plan A-ing like crazy. I really hope this works. I have my fingers and toes crossed but sometimes I just feel like it is a lost cause. Is that normal? I know that this is a long process and I have read enough on here to know that I am actually on the hardest part.
I think I would feel a bit better if he actually WANTED to work on it but he says there is nothing there. Sometimes when I read the articles and letters I feel like they aren't talking to me because they always talk about people who are both willing to work at it.
I guess that's why I have to go into a dark Plan B, but I have a question too.
I was reading something Harley wrote about NOT separating because it actually is worse. I got a bit confused because if I am planning on it, is that the best choice?
Deep down it seems like it, but these doubts creep in.
Most of the people I talk to have said he will come back eventually when he realizes what he has done but I have one friend who said she doesn't think he would because he is too stubborn. That little doubt was planted in my head and now I am losing a bit of HOPE and diving right into FEAR and WORRY.
Yes, WH was beyond MAD. I exposed to our friends, some of his co-workers, my family, his family, the HR at both his jobs, some people on Facebook including one of WH's family members.
He raged for days and days. He continually told me he was f*** off everyone. He continually told me to go sleep with someone else. He verbally abused me. He refused to sleep in the same bed with me. He messed up our D's mind. He destroyed some things in our house - I had to threaten to report the police on him. He threatened suicide (I found out much later on that he never really meant this). All because he wanted me to back off and let him carry on with his As.
I had to stay firm. I had to become a broken record - "your actions caused this" and change the subject or leave the room. Sometimes I even had to leave the house for a short while because I was overwhelmed by his anger and behaviors.
Several people here on MB felt that what he was doing was beyond the norm for a WS. As it turns out, he has always had an addictive personality, and that for years I had been allowing him to push my boundaries back.
Just stay strong. Your H's anger means exposure is working! If he was not reacting at all, you'd have to be worried.
You know what your number one tool is? Losing your fear. Realizing that this is ALL in God's hands, you have NO control, you WILL survive without him if you have to (you did before him, didn't you?).
Once you reach that point, and stop acting out of fear of ticking him off, YOU will have all the power. Because the ONE thing he has on you - deciding whether to 'favor' you with his presence - will no longer be an issue.
And, yes, you are supposed to make him angry by exposing. He would never have the shock he needs to make a decision without it. Anger means your exposure is working.
His anger isn't really coming out right now it is more subtle like in the silent treatments, the avoiding me and changing passwords to block me out of things. I know it isn't a healthy way for him to act but it is what he is doing.
I know I CAN survive without him, I just don't WANT to. If someone could tell me that I would have to deal with this for x number of years than I would get through. I know that may sound a bit silly but that is what I am feeling right now and I figure that if I am honest about my feelings on here maybe someone else will see that they are not alone.
Feeling alone is the hardest part especially when EVERYONE in my real life all say they would not do this. They would just kick him out and move on. I even have people telling me to just go find someone else. I am NOT doing that but how can they even think that way? Do they not feel anything for their spouses? Well, I guess that is enough sadness for today. Cleaning house outta stuff that is not needed anymore.
Feeling alone is the hardest part especially when EVERYONE in my real life all say they would not do this. They would just kick him out and move on. I even have people telling me to just go find someone else. I am NOT doing that but how can they even think that way? Do they not feel anything for their spouses?
Outside of my family, everyone else told me the same thing. I realized they didn't understand what I was going through. That they would never understand unless they were in my shoes. A good friend repeatedly asked me: "Are you SURE you want to do this? Are you SURE?" A typical response from many was "Wow! You are one strong woman."
Anyway, I'm not sure what your H's reactions mean, but the fact that he is reacting at all I think is still a good sign. Hope vets can give perspective on this.
If someone could tell me that I would have to deal with this for x number of years than I would get through.
But this is the thought process I'm trying to get you to look at. You're acting like what YOU do can change what HE does. Yes, that's kind of the ethereal spirit behind MB, but it's not the tangible one.
The tangible spirit here is that, once you've been dealt such a blow, the #1 thing you can do, from this day forward, is say to yourself "Today, I start living for myself. I build my own integrity. I improve myself. I learn to love myself. Once I accomplish that, if he/she comes back, it's an added bonus, because I'll be ready to move forward with my life in a better way. But if he/she doesn't, I'm still ok, because look at all I've done for myself."
As to your timeline, if you follow the MB plans, and after you have been in Plan B for 2 years he still shows no signs of coming back, THAT is when you give up hope and let go at last. (This in no way negates cat's excellent advice to focus on yourself, and the things you can control.)
Some people give up sooner and that's their choice. I have no argument with that. But if you follow Dr. H's ideal scenario, he says nearly all A's end within 2 years.
You have LOTS AND LOTS of hope. The blacker it looks, the more God is working on your behalf in ways you may not see for many months.
If you follow Pepo's advice to go to Plan B right before Christmas, I see no harm in waiting till then to complete your exposure, even if you find the OW's info before then. If you absolutely can't dig up any info on her let me know and I may be able to help.
Anger and Plan A see each other pretty regularly, actually. Since even the nice things you do will often anger a WS, there's plenty of anger. What you don't want to do is make them angry through LB's. That is what you need to avoid, not the anger itself.
As far as a separation, it is risky, yes. However, when you balance the risk of a separation and chance of recovery (around 80% success with MB methods) versus the risk from staying together too long and you losing all love for your WH and any desire to recover (this risk goes up every single day he slashes away at you with the pain of his betrayal), your odds are far better with separating in Plan B.
Additionally, staying too long will exhaust you physically and mentally, putting you in a more precarious position entering recovery. I can tell you firsthand how hard it is to try and recover from this after pushing to the very limits of endurance. It is something I would spare anyone willing to listen.
Save yourself a reserve. You're very likely to need it.;)
Thanx Neak I think i understand a little better now. I know that Plan A and Plan B are supposed to be for me and I guess I kinda lost sight of that.
It is hard sometimes with my family and friends because I feel like I have to constantly defend my position over and over again instead of them just accepting that this is what I am trying to do and this is what in my HEART feels right. I was so lost before I found MB and I feel like it was a HUGE light shone on my sitch.
I am gonna do my best and that's all I can ask of myself I guess. BTW my books arrived today so I will be reading whenever WH is not around.
Feeling alone is the hardest part especially when EVERYONE in my real life all say they would not do this. They would just kick him out and move on. I even have people telling me to just go find someone else.
Typical script for anyone who has NOT actually experienced this themselves. Ask the doubters to give you a hug and keep you in their hearts.
Hang in there, I think you're doing GREAT!
At the very least, you are proving to yourself just how strong and principled you are under duress. It's "easy" to be strong when things are going your way.
okay I guess I will read it while he is around. I was having a bad day and then I kept thinking about what I want to accomplish and that I need to feel better. I think it is because I am having a hard time sleeping but I am getting better at that too.
Every new thing that happens reopens the wound. I now see how Plan A really can't be long term because his alien is a bad one compared to the H I used to know.
He is really trying to avoid me and now he is trying to be extra good with the kids including baking brownies with them on Sunday which of course I praised and said they tasted amazing when he said they were gross.
He is sleeping further and further away from me too I think he is going to fall off soon (teehee) and I realized that he sleeps close when he is comfortable with what is going on and things are going as planned and moving away when they aren't to his liking.
I am taking time reacting to things that I find out too.
All of the feelings that you talk about while in this frustrating and crazy Plan A, I felt them too, and from what I've read from others, they are par for the course.
The trick is to remain in control of your actions/reactions.
I was also questioned by some GF's, on whether or not I was sure I was doing the right thing, by staying and fighting for my M. I suspect that these GF's, who were married, had not ever had to deal with adultery. Others admired the strength that it took. I relied on these people for more strength.
Almost everyone questioned my tactics while I was in Plan A, had never heard of such a bizarre way of dealing with this. They had also never heard of Dr. Harley or MB.
Some tactics to get you through this mind sucking, and heart wrenching Plan A .....
Keep up with the looking good, our outlook is better when we look great. Nice toes, great hair, some make up, all areas trimmed/shaved .... everything in tact!
Pamper yourself, soothing hot baths turn out the lights, add some aromatherapy candles and soft music, and just relax into never never land .....
If your budget can handle it, get a massage, a lymph drainage massage is to die for!
Take up a new interest or revive an old one, steer your thinking to something that you find enjoyable.
Get your exercise, the endorphins that are released will rejuvenate you for the day. I took up running again, something that I let slip. Not only did I feel better physically, it gave me time unscramble all of the thoughts whirling in my head.
Have some outlet where you can scream if you need to, I used to scream at my oven (I know it's weird) This may not work for you, I don't know. After my WH would leave the house and I had listened to his babble, I just needed to scream at something.
You are doing well, keep it up, you can do this, you really can!
Thanx I will try all of it. What I do when I am upset is drive in my car with some really loud music and scream my head off.
I just told my friend that I am getting exhausted defending my actions to people. She said "well I can't lie to you." I said" I don't need you to lie. You could just say "that sounds interesting. I hope it works out for you."" That's what I need when I feel a little sad.
He is still avoiding me and when I make an attempt to say or do anything he ignores it. It is a little sad for me but I know that it is expected. Read most of SAA today so I should finish it tomorrow. I am going to read it a few times to get it all stuck in. I am sure that what we have here is an example of Soul-mate so LUCKY US (that SUCKS). Prayers going out all of the time and it is now in the hands of the universe.
I now see why you can only do Plan A for so long. I have a countdown of the days because sometimes it just seems too hard.
I also don't understand why I am more angry about the other things he does than about the fact that he had sex with her. I used to believe that that was what I wouldn't be able to get over, but that part is NOTHING compared to the fact that he spends time with her, tells her she's cute, tells her he loves him, etc. I guess it has something to do with my important ENs.
I am going to ride out this train and let's see what stops we make along the way. I just still have HOPE that the final destination is a healthier and happier M than before.
It's called a rollercoaster ride for a good reason. Take care of yourself as much as possible, that tends to quiet your "taker" a little. Your "taker" is not enjoying Plan A very much. So, take her out on a date (lunch mani/pedi, etc)
This is by far the hardest part of Plan A. I am sorry you are dealing with this.
I want to start a thread on what can be on the other end of Plan A if a BW can hang in there...I haven't done that yet, but please believe that the payoff can be beyond your wildest dreams if you can hang in there.
But RIGHT NOW I know you are dying inside and I am incredibly sorry for that.
It's also the fact that when I do things for him that make him uncomfortable, ie touch him in ANY way, he pulls away from me. He has even stopped saying good night and sometimes he gets a bit snotty about things.
Today I had to endure a Children's Christmas Party with my MIL and SIL and of course WH. It was soooooo hard because it was the big pink elephant in the corner. WH was trying to get involved with the kids but they were more involved with me and I think it upset him a bit. I used to make sure they included him too but I don't go out of my way to do it anymore.
I don't know if that is the right thing to do but I figure it is time for him to make sure his relationship is good.
I do have a question about being in Plan B though. Should I still communicate with MIL and SIL in regards to the kids, like what they want for Xmas, bdays etc?
Sorry to ask so much but it totally goes against my instincts and I just want to make sure I do the best I can so no matter which way this ends up I will be able to say I have no regrets because I handled it the best way I knew.
Thanx Today I started feeling a little better. Started the morning thinking I couldn't do the whole time I planned in Plan A and now I know I can.
Soon to come, Plan B letter draft (and plenty of questions about that one too)
It's also the fact that when I do things for him that make him uncomfortable, ie touch him in ANY way, he pulls away from me. He has even stopped saying good night and sometimes he gets a bit snotty about things.
Because you being in Plan A and behaving unexpectedly generous towards him makes HIM feel like a schmuck ! He's going to hate Plan B even more ... but you will not know that until later ... because you will be protected from knowing what mood he's in. It's common for Plan B wives to imagine that their waynerd is all sunshine and roses in Plan B - trust us - he's going to be happy for about 48 hours then he's going to be a buggar.
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I used to make sure they included him too but I don't go out of my way to do it anymore.
Right!
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I don't know if that is the right thing to do but I figure it is time for him to make sure his relationship is good.
Yes!
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I do have a question about being in Plan B though. Should I still communicate with MIL and SIL in regards to the kids, like what they want for Xmas, bdays etc?
When you are in Plan B you can communicate with them if you want to. It seems like you will want to. However, make it clear to them that they are NOT to discuss WH or OW in your presence because you are not able to tolerate WH's adultery any longer and you will not allow discussions concerning WH or OW. They will need to be reminded a few times. Keep them in your camp , if possible. But always show your graceful wonderful side to them. It makes the waynerds look more stupid and selfish to their family.
Do any of you think it is appropriate for me to air some of my problems with WH behaviour over an email as he tries to ignore me all of the other time? I know that he called OW again while I was at work and even ignored our children to carry on conversation. He also started going out whenever he wants to and doesn't feel like he needs to tell me where he is anymore.
I know I have to tell him some things that worked in the marriage before and tell him that the things he is doing is hurting me but I am just not sure how to do it without going into R talk and how to do that when he doesn't want to let me fill any ENs. It seems to be getting worse but as I understand it it is because he is getting uncomfortable and trying to push me away.
I am reading more posts on MB and this is where all of the other questions arose from.
Thanx Pepper. I will definitely do that. It is funny because even when he told me he was leaving I did tell him thank you for the good things in my life and that was before I found MB.
A little evil part of me hopes OW finds one of the letters and goes a little crazy about it. That is just my fun in my head sometimes when I am suffering. I guess whatever helps me get through another day of not going crazy.
One thing I did learn is how many GOOD friends I really do have.
Your panties in the passenger seat pocket of his car ... I'm just sayin'....
I left mine beside the bed in the motel room, and I know she found them. She stuffed them in the closet, along with my silky nighty that was under the pillow.
As to the phone conversations he's having, I think this late in Plan A it's ok to let it go. If you do say something, make it very short and still sweet. "I'd really appreciate it if you didn't talk to your adultery partner while the kids or I are around - thanks! Would you like some cheesecake?" Then don't bother to try and follow up. He'll still do it, but not as comfortably.
If you read the very first post on my thread, all the notes I left around were one of the few things that really made it through to my FWH even in the fog, though I had no idea at the time. They had no visible result during the A.
This is AWESOME advice it is making me GIDDY just reading these things to do. Is it wrong for me to enjoy this this much? NOPE hehehehehe.
I am brainstorming to figure out the best memories to put in the notes and the fun places to put them. He works at a call center and he wears a headset, which he brings home everyday. The first note I wrote I put in his headset box so when he took them out, at work, in front of her, since she sits right beside him, she would be reminded that I am still there.
I will be figuring out other places to put the notes and I am sure he will start checking things before he goes to work so he doesn't get in trouble. The pantie idea is a GREAT one. I am gonna get creative with that one.
I am starting to really get in to the angry stage of all of this but it's only because I am so hurt. I also feel like a real idiot. I mean I approached them about this many times over the last 2 years and I didn't handle it all that well because I was very jealous and my inner voice was telling me it was wrong but I kept believing him. I am partly mad at myself for not stopping it sooner but I did my best at the time. Now I am ready to do better since I have some training and good generals telling me how to win the war.
I'm sorry I haven't read your whole thread, can you give me a quick update on how long you are going to Plan A him?
I see in your sig line that he is planning on waiting until Feb. to move out. Why is he waiting? Personally, I think that is wayyyyy too long to Plan A him. You will have a nervous breakdown if you try it that long. Trust me because I did it and it wasn't worth it.
Every one is different in how long they can handle Plan A.
I did it for six months and it was actually, over all, quite a 'fun' thing to do.
You put your Taker in the background, ask it to watch the Giver do its stuff and have an 'enjoyable' time luring the wayward back towards intimacy from the far reaches of withdrawal (the three stages of marriage, intimacy, conflict, withdrawal).
Right now, concentrate on the notes, the smiles, the expressions of caring spousedom in a difficult situation and when the Taker gets too antsy, tell it that Plan B will come soon enough.
My 2 cents.
Whatever you feel.....do not lovebust. Do not. Do not. Do not.
I would warn you, however, do not 'shower' him with notes. That will seem forced and fake. If it's not something you've done before, I would do no more than one or two a week. So that it seems spontaneous.
My view of Plan a is, you are acting in ways you have learned and would like to act in a loving relationship. We call it Plan a when it is in this situation when your S is having an A and the feelings are not reciprocated. But think of the things you are changing about how you act and react, and what changes you will keep during recovery.
By keeping these thoughts in mind it made my actions more honest to me, and I'm sure to him also. These were real changes I was making. I was becoming more loving, and concentrating on showing him my love in the ways that spoke to him best, by fulfilling his top EN's.
The notes idea is a great idea. Any ideas you can do in a drive by fashion. A touch that is so fast he doesn't have time to flinch. Blowing a kiss, a wink, etc.
He has made up his mind to make the OW his GF and to cast off his W. He would feel he is cheating on her if he is affectionate with you. But he hasn't REALLY made the decision firm, because he is still there. He is probably telling her all kinds of lies, about not loving you anymore, how you don't sleep together, that you don't kiss or hug him, and he is trying to make these lies the truth.
So you keep up with the affection. And here is the fun part, you seduce him back... You did it once, you can do it again...
He is probably telling her all kinds of lies, about not loving you anymore, how you don't sleep together, that you don't kiss or hug him, and he is trying to make these lies the truth
.
This is very true, so the key is to not let the lies he is telling her become true. I vividly remember this happening when I was in Plan A.
<We were in a FR so I did not KNOW the A was still on...I didn't know WHY things were still so bad, but in hindsight it was because he was TRYING to make these lies true. I am VERY THANKFUL that I didn't know the A was still on because this made it easier to Plan A him. It's much harder to keep on a good Plan A and not LB when you are dealing with an active A and you KNOW it.>
Anyways...my Plan A worked tremendously well. I became the girl he fell in love with years ago and that was MUCH more appealing than the alternative.
To give you some hope...my DH is very much in love with me today, and I am certain it is because during my Plan A I LEARNED how to meet his needs and truly be someone he does not want to be without.
OK firstly, I am only intending to do Plan A for about a week and a half upon Pepperband's suggestion that I ask him to leave before Xmas and move into a Dark Plan B. I know the affair is active and I also know that he is trying desperately to move away from me totally. While we were out yesterday I just moved my foot to touch his and he moved 2 feet away. Then our legs accidentally touched when we sat down and he made sure he picked up his chair and moved 6 inches away. I wanted to yell at him so badly but I kept it in. It's like he doesn't want to cheat on HER. That drives me insane.
I am a person who tends to wear my emotions on my sleeve. My WH used to joke that if I were ever to leave him he would know why because I wouldn't be able to keep it in.
I am finding it quite difficult to Plan A because I am getting hurt over and over again by his actions. He is closing me out and my taker is getting really angry. When I feel like that I just remove myself until I feel like I can keep it under control.
I do realize how Plan A is showing me what I am going to do in Recovery(if I can get us there). I am actually finding that I can do these things without totally hating them. Most of the things, I used to do before kids but I focused too much on them. That isn't a regret I have I just wish I would have spent some more time on myself and my M.
WH actually said to me a few months ago while we were shopping in a furniture store, that the sales people were approaching me and not him because I was looking older. I told him that one of us had to grow up. I had noticed he was acting like a rebellious teenager and it was driving me nuts. He was complaining about me looking through his things, asking him where he was and asking him to take on responsibilities in the house. I now know these were all signs of his affair.
I am doing my best to fill ENs and it feels like it isn't working. I am just going to do my best and hope that somewhere in there my H still exists.
It hurts sometimes too because I was his first GF and he is now doing to her what he did for me. Sometimes it makes me scared that they will stay together and they will be happy. I can't wait around for him I am just going to focus on myself and the kids when I am in Plan B and see what happens. I am glad that I found MB and I know that no matter what I will get through this.
The first note I wrote I put in his headset box so when he took them out, at work, in front of her, since she sits right beside him, she would be reminded that I am still there.
You exposed at the workplace right ??? Were there no repercussions for WH or OW ?
If I remember correctly, you are the BS that has not been able to expose on the OW's side. Is there no one at the workplace that could give you some info on this POSOW ?
I did expose at work and I have heard nothing about it.
You are correct that I am still unable to find OW family. I can't find them at all and I don't know what to do to find them. I know she has a mother that lives far away from her and a brother who watches her daughter for her. I don't know their names and I have noone who can tell me. I have tried to contact someone who may know but no luck yet as it had to be done third party. I am at a stand still with this part as nothing can be done on my end.
I exposed to an online RPG game he plays hoping that someone would put pressure on him but now he changed his passwords and I don't have a clue.
I just meant that I don't know if there were any things that happened to them and if it was even taken seriously. It's almost like all of my exposure didn't get me any of the help in putting pressure on the A. Well, I know it was a step that had to be taken.
You need to actually talk to someone at their work. Have you done this?
Their managers will surely care that they are using company time (and thus, money) to carry on their adulterous affair. Have you contacted HR???
<If exposure has not been done properly, you are spinning your wheels. You need to make the A VERY uncomfortable for them. Once I did full-on, nuclear exposure, the A ended and we got into real recovery.>
I don't have time right now, but please go back and look at my exposure thread in early March 2007...titled something like "NC Never *&^%$ Started".
This is the sort of exposure you MUST do if you haven't already.
Does your WH always pack his own lunch, or does he eat out ? An unexpected lunch delivery would be sweet, especially when made by a hot looking BW. Hmm, would this cause tension between the adulteres ???
Remember, you are still married to WH, and you believe in M, anyway you can remind both of them of this will be in your favour, in a non love busting way of course.
As far as WH not responding to your affections, just keep doing them. He may be angry at himself, feeling some guilt for his actions. He may be in disbelief that you are sincere, so stay consistent, lovebusters can make him doubt your intentions.
Ok here it is. I have exposed to his mother, whom he barely speaks to and she said she doesn't get involved in this sort of thing. I exposed to his sister whom he doesn't even talk to. I have told all of the people on my side of the equation. I have told old friends of his as he has no current friends other than her and her friends. I can't find her friends or family.
I wrote two letters to their work since I found out that he took her on a training trip in August. The second letter was just sent last Tuesday.
I told our children about all of it. I told them that if they had any questions they could ask either one of us. They said they understood what was going on.
I really don't know who else I CAN expose to. I feel like that was all I could do and it wasn't a nuclear explosion so it wasn't want it needed to be. Does that mean I should give up hope?
You need to focus on Plan A. Meet his ENs, avoid LBs, and do it as long as you can without causing yourself irreparable harm like PTSD. Learn to state how hurtful the affair is in a calm and loving manner. Find ways to catch him in the act and remind him you are still his wife, love him very much, and expect him to come home.
Then prepare for your dark, dark Plan B... and do Plan B on your timetable, not his.
You need to actually talk to someone at their work. Have you done this?
Personally, if I were you, and had not heard of any changes in the workplace, (they still sit beside eachother ) I would prance in there and ask to speak to the person that you sent the letter to. Then I would ask what is being done to help you save your M, if nothing is being done, then ask "Is it the policy of this workplace to encourage adultery or help families and M's remain intact?"
No, you should not give up hope but you SHOULD make phone calls to HR at their work.
No more of this sending-letters-nonsense. That isn't working because you don't know if they are receiving them.
When you call HR, politely let them know that sexual harrassment lawsuits can certainly stem frm situations/inappropriate relationships such as the one POSOW is having with your H, a married man.
When you call HR, ask to speak to a manager or someone high up in the managerial chain.
Also, do you attend a church? If so, let your pastor know and ask him if he will contact your H.
Does your H have any other good friends? Expose to them AGAIN and ask their help in saving your M. Ask them to put pressure on your H to do the right thing and keep his family intact.
Is he close to anyone in your family? Do you have anyone in your family who he respects and would feel badly if he knew they were highly disappointed in him?
He doesn't have any friends anymore. He does seem to hang out with a couple of people from work but I don't know them at all.
We don't attend church.
I have told all of the friends we do have and they were shocked but they politely told me they couldn't take sides. I just explained that I needed to try to save this. He wouldn't answer the phone if he saw who was calling so I don't know how any of them will even be able to contact him if they wanted to help.
I will try to call his work and see what I can do there.
Since you are planning on one week before Plan B, I want to give some suggestions
Low cut shirts and alluring nightclothes. Occasional strutting naked.
Come hither, smokey eyes at him (do your best to stay in the character and not laugh or cry).
Maybe some solitary sensual pleasure next to him. Not inviting him to participate BUT being a bit brave and if he gets angry or rude saying "sorry but I just felt the need."
Smell good.
Look good.
Look like you FEEL good. Be brave.
Do hot stuff for him to recall when he is gone.
SF is one of men's most important emotional needs and a powerful one. You meet it by showing that you are a sexual woman who knows how to feel sexual all on your own.
I just called their workplace and all that HR told me was that they are not allowed to discuss anything to do with their policies if it not to an employee.
I feel like all of my exposing was for NOTHING and now I am getting that hopeless feeling again.
You don't need them to tell you their policy...just politely let them know that your VERY MARRIED HUSBAND is having an affair with one of their EMPLOYEES and you are sure they would want to know so that they can protect themselves from a potential sexual harrassment lawsuit.
The words "Sexual Harrassment Lawsuit" will SURELY perk up their ears.
Don't give up hope Scotland, your M is not over until D papers are signed,(remember that ) and you are not even close to that.
Right now you are fighting the A and showing your WH that you are the best choice, and you are giving him the best impression of what married life can be like with you.
Do what you can to make the A an uncomfortable situation to be in, for both the infidels. I learned that in fighting the A part, you have to be ruthless, it is war.
You are still doing great, breathe and keep your focus.
p.s. no work place likes the sounds of 'Sexual Harrassment'
p.s. no work place likes the sounds of 'Sexual Harrassment'
Thought I better clarify this .....
I mean that the workplace sounds like this is the only weapon you have right now to use against this adultery. Workplaces not liking the sound of 'Sexual Harrassment' , is a good thing to use!
I used the Sexual Harrassment question and she asked how a lawsuit could arise from this and if what I was trying to do was get information from her of a nature that she was not allowed to tell me? She even asked me if I was trying to tell her how to do her job? She said that all she could tell me was that they had received the letters. It really didn't seem so promising I guess I have to just let this affair die a natural death with no help from exposure.
I used the Sexual Harrassment question and she asked how a lawsuit could arise from this and if what I was trying to do was get information from her of a nature that she was not allowed to tell me? She even asked me if I was trying to tell her how to do her job? She said that all she could tell me was that they had received the letters. It really didn't seem so promising I guess I have to just let this affair die a natural death with no help from exposure.
Don't be so sure. It may be that they would rather handle this internally and not expose their own dirty laundry.
I have received no response to the letters I sent to POSOM's employer. And I cc'd the CEO and General Counsel.
Either it has an effect or it doesn't. But as Wayne Gretsky famously remarked, "You never make 100% of the shots you don't take."
Reading- I have been dressing more sexy and making sure I do my hair and even wearing makeup. Smiling a lot and laughing as much as possible even when I don;t think things are that funny.
I wrote him an email today detailing a dream i had in which I did all of his favourite things in a sexual way. I know his fantasies and that helped.
It is hard to do any of the other things because he barely even looks at me. I am going to do all that I can and just let it fall on deaf ears but maybe WH is actually in there somewhere and when the A starts going down he will remember those little things. I just need him to have me in his mind when he is with her sometimes so it will cause his little brain to clear up a bit.
For most men AS (Attractive Spouse) is an EN, even if they don't recognize it, so keeping yourself looking good is VERY important.
Even during the A I know my appearance made a big impression on my FWH because he commented on it often (he always has). Even when things between us were rough, he would STILL tell me how good I looked.
And if you are planning on going to Plan B, this is really crucial. Let his last mental pictures of you being how GREAT you looked all the time.
MF- well I don't know about looking GREAT hehehehe.....I gained a lot of weight over our relationship and I have been losing some lately due to the "MY H IS SLEEPING WITH OW DIET" which is to say barely eating. She is smaller than me but she is also overweight which I don't think matters to him that much.
I have been walking with friends and exercising regularly as well. I have been feeling and looking better and others have been telling me this lately which is really hard, since the only person I really want to hear it from is not even looking at me much.. He hasn't mentioned anything about my looks at all but I still make sure to try to look my best. I have caught him stealing quick looks at me and I make sure he sees a good deal that would make him happy. I am just doing the best I can with what I have.
I attempted to call my FIL today but I got his wife instead. My WH has had no contact with his father in years but I thought that maybe if FIL would at the very least leave a message or write a letter telling WH that what he is doing isn't right that maybe the influence he had on him when he was a child will sink in a little. It was my last resort as my best chance was their work and that panned out to NADA.
maybe WH is actually in there somewhere and when the A starts going down he will remember those little things
This is correct. Even if he doesn't remember the specifics,you will leave him with a general impression of a beautiful, warm, sexy wife that he stands to lose in exchange for...not so much.
Don't stress the exposure thingy, except for trying to locate OW's family. While your best-case scenario involves family, friends, acquaintances,and bosses all standing firmly on the side of family and fidelity, even if that doesn't happen exposure still has an impact. Whether people disapprove or not, the secret is out, and isn't so fun or shiny any more. It still has the light of day, with or without approval. And A's suffocate in the light.
Oh honey...I feel for you. But take comfort in that you have the best of the BEST helping you....( ...that's for you Pep...you naughty naughty lady, you....)
Originally Posted by Scotland
It's also the fact that when I do things for him that make him uncomfortable, ie touch him in ANY way, he pulls away from me.
I wanted to touch on this for a moment. First off, I bumped up a thread by Schoolbus called "Schoolbus' info thread...body language, memory..". I want you to read this. And pay close attention to what she write, because this comes from years of experience in her line of work....
The thing is, even if he pulls away from you, you need to encroach on his space every chance you get. Move a tuff of hair when passing, give his bicept a gentle squeeze when he walks out the door (this is MY FAVORITE move. It demostates his strength in comparisson to your "delicacy"..... ;)), when he sitting down give his shoulders a squeeze.
In fact, offer him a massage. I do not know of one wayward that has ever passed this one up. You might "notice" how tense he is (which of course he is....affairs are stressful stuff ya know.... ).....it can go something like this....
Mr. WScot....(sitting in a chair or standing there looking forlorn)
Mrs. Scot....(comes over and squeezes his shoulder...).."OH honey, you feel tense. Is your neck bothering you??".....
Mr. WScot.....(looking grumpy...maybe even moving over a little..)....(sigh)..."No, its fine"....
Mrs. Scot...."Are you sure???...You do feel awfully tense. Why don't I give you a rub down?".....
Mr. WScot...."I told you its fine...."......
Mrs. Scot..."Well, okay, but if you change your mind, you know where to find me...."...(walking away...)
Mr. WScot...."You know, I do feel a little tight...I SUPPOSE that I could use a little massage....if you don't mind..."....
Anyway, the thing is you need to touch him whenever you can. Since he's being quite difficult, I wouldn't be to overt about it, but yet, encroach his personal space as much as possible. Schoolbus' thread gives lots of info on this and the scientific reasoning behind it. But, even though it seems to agitate him, it will be these seemingly small jesture's that will stay with him later on when you are in a dark Plan B.
I'm a big fan of the notes too. Remember, they don't have to be special loving memories. Just memories. Even reminising about the year you burnt the turkey at Thanksgiving that is funny NOW, is good. This is the kind of stuff that confuses the poor, drug-induced wayward brain.....I did this on our DD15 (then 14) birthday. WH had gone out of town, and was having a "bad" moment...I kept talking to him about the day she was born, the labor, him playing spoons in the waiting room, the moment she came, him letting me choose the name. These are memories and moments that OW can NEVER share with him.....It was very painful for him to "remember". Of course, unbeknown to me at the time, it was probably me piling on the guilt (unknowingly..... ), since the "business" trip he was on was really a trip to OW, trying to win her back. Nothing like missing your DD Bday to bump uglies with your mistress..... But the point I am trying to make is you need to create GOOD feelings and memories NOW and REMIND him of the GOOD memories of YOUR guys' past.....
You are doing wonderful BTW......this is a rollercoaster of emotions......
I remember hearing this story about a guy who was having an affair at work. His wife came up to him one day and talked to him about it.
She wasn't crying or or yelling at all. She chuckled and said something about his ego and his "little" affair he was having with the secretary. She seemed like she was talking about a child and a crush on his teacher. She was not moved to be angry at all. Of course this is not what you should look like but thier is something about being confident that takes all of the power out of the betrayal and is very attractive to men.
You have everything to be confident about. As a guy i can tell you that all of the sexual advances, flirting, positive bubbly attitude, and kind of wild suggestions are working on him. There isn't a man born who doesn't respond to flattery and attention.
You can be confident that you are married to him, she isn't and you have the right to tell everyone you are his and he is yours. She is stealing and sneaking around with some kind of excuse. Its allways an excuse. There is no reason in thier behavior. There is "a" reason for it, but it is sneaky and weak.
If he is whining it will make them miserable, especially as he starts to complain to her about how much you are coming on to him because eventually he will be conflicted. He can't talk to her about it because she will get jealous and boo-hoo who will he talk to? Then you will inhabit a mysteriuos place in his mind that she won't be able to control.
If there is some kind of alliance about blame game stuff and past issues he is blaming you for as long as you remain willing...yes so very willing.. to submit to him in love and truth it will get into his head and she will not be able to get it out. That new woman that you show him will blow him away and the romance he allways wanted with you will seem possible. Heck he might even twist his arm outta joint patting himself on the back for picking you to begin with because "He Knew! he picked right".
I speak from a husbands point of view. My wife had screwwed up bigtime(affair with alcohol and PAs), verbal abuse and all of the stuff that comes with it, and I left. It took her 2 years to get me back. She did just about all the things these ladies are describing and also had no problem telling me she was fighting for her marriage and we were worth the fight. I had good reason not to come back but she really changed and it took that long for me to believe it. The visions of my wifes sultry looks at me when I would come over to see the kids and her complete turn around in stability eventually made the choice to come home the most comfortable one. Men are all about comfort at home it seems. Egos puffed up, KIng of the castle. Wife can't get enough of him....LOL. Well at least thats what you want him to see right now. I seriuosly hope that you guys will experiance that later, I know its possible, but it will take some time after you both are in the next stage.
Oh yeah the blatent throwing yourself at him (when you can), behavior. Don't ever feel that you need to be sorry for it. If he gets mad then just be respectful and back off but keep a mischievous smile in your eyes. Don't ever apolgize for what he might call manipulation. Say that you are doing what you want to and sleeping with him is one of your top prioritys in life.
Ok girls, do you think thats sound advice? You guys really are awesome at this. Listen and trust these girls scotland. If what they are saying doesn't work the man has no pulse
I imagine that his moving away from you whenever your feet or knees happen to touch feels a bit like a gut punch.
This might help turn things around. Remember, so much of this is all in controlling your perception and having NO EXPECTATIONS. Right now you're touching him and secretly (or not so secretly) hoping he'll respond. When he makes an effort to move away, it hurts you. So you have to get rid of those (not so) secret expectations.
Try making a game in your head. Bet yourself that "this time he will rearrange his body but not actually scoot his chair/butt away" or "this time he will move a minimum of three inches" or "He's extra grumpy. This time he'll leave the room." Then put your hand on his shoulder and lean in to say something to him, or play footsie with him or whatever, and see how close you come.
I'm thinking if you "win" your little game in your mind, you'll have a slight smile playing at the corner of your lips. That will be confusing to him. If he exceeds your expectations or falls short of them, you might have a slight look of surprise. Also confusing to him, because he's expecting hurt or anger.
Dunno if that will help, but I thought I'd throw it out for consideration.
I am going to keep it up the as best as I can. While we were out last night he kept ignoring me but I kept on saying and doing things. I made sure I dressed up I was showing of my best assets and I caught him looking a couple of times. He didn't say anything but I know he noticed. I touched him a couple times when I could and I tried to engage him whenever possible. It seemed weird to me that I should know that it is working because he is trying to avoid me instead of 2 weeks ago when I thought it was going well because he was joking and interacting with me.
On our way home I made sure to bring up some happy memories about when we used to drive off road. We got stuck many times and we had a lot of fun. We were sharing these memories with the kids. He was really excited to tell them everything and he even actually said good night to me when I went to bed. I am going to keep it up as much as I can it just seems really uncomfortable.
When I do the physical things, sometimes I think about the fact that as sick as this sounds, he feels like it is cheating on POSOW. That is why it bugs me. Oh well I will do what you suggest and make sure to keep it up.
I do have a question about the day that I ask him to leave. Should I ask him to come home early from work that day or just let him come home when he wants? Should the kids be there? I also think that he wants to take our bed. What should I do about that?
The Plan B letter is pretty much the one from SAA and then I have addendums to it on how to break NC with me and about finances and children visitation.
Also, what exactly should I say when telling him I am fighting for us and that I want marital recovery without sounding like I am talking about our R? I don't want to use any LBs and I can't quite figure out what is right.
Also, what exactly should I say when telling him I am fighting for us and that I want marital recovery without sounding like I am talking about our R? I don't want to use any LBs and I can't quite figure out what is right.
This is all in the Plan B letter - so that you don't LB and you get it right. You actually say very little to him in person. You hand him the letter and tell him that your heart is breaking, you know he is planning to leave you anyway, and you need him to go now instead of later.
If he asks questions, you say:
"It's all in the letter."
You keep the bed. If he argues, you say:
"You're breaking my heart."
Don't argue about anything, you stick to your script of how much pain you are in.
I do have a question about the day that I ask him to leave. Should I ask him to come home early from work that day or just let him come home when he wants? Should the kids be there? I also think that he wants to take our bed. What should I do about that?
He takes NOTHING from the marital home except his personal belongings. He is the one carrying on an A and breaking up the family ~ he does not get to furnish his new place with ANYTHING from your home.
Personally, I think your best bet is to have all of his stuff packed up and on the front porch with the Plan B letter on top so he sees it right away. CHANGE THE LOCKS THAT DAY. This step is crucial or he will waltz right in every chance he gets.
You don't need to explain anything to him about the PBL...it's all in there. You do have an intermediary (IM), right? THIS IS ALSO CRUCIAL. Don't even attempt PB without an IM, it's a disaster every single time.
Can you post your PBL here to make sure everything is covered? That would be helpful for you, we can make sure it's all good.
Finances? Does he provide all of your support? Do you need to file to maintain it or will he willingly comply? In your state can you file for separation rather than divorce? Have you consulted with an attorney? If not -- do so right away so that you know your rights in terms of:
Exclusive Use of Marital Home. Exclusive Use of Marital property contained in the home (he gets his clothes.) Primary Physical Custody of children Preventing Children from exposure to affair (blocking OW) Changing locks
Sometimes you need to file for temporary custody and support at the same time you go to Plan B-- if you think he will be outraged or non-compliant. If you depend on his income for support, you probably want to do that so that you are not worried about finances during his temper-tantrum.
Have you chosen the Plan B date? Its really important that you be completely unreachable. Can you take the boys and go away? Have someone at your house, but you be gone.
*****
About his mindset: He feels very OBLIGATED to OW by now. I hate to tell you this, but this is a long term entrenched affair. He has stalled as long as he could -- but now he's made promises to OW that he feels very obligated to fulfill. He really thought he could manipulate his "leaving" so that you would not know it was an affair.
He thought he could leave....stay with his "friend" OW.....and then make everyone believe that their relationship just developed due to her graciousness in helping him through his difficult time. The marriage was over, OW had NOTHING to do with the breakup of the marriage....
See?
That is why exposure is sooooo very critical. It ruins that fantasy and doesn't allow them to spin the story into some beautiful love story. Everyone will know and judge their sleazy actions.
Its especially important for your children to know EXACTLY who and what OW is. Their home-wrecker. She is their absolute enemy. She is pure EVIL to your children. And it is OK and APPROPRIATE for the children to be angry with their father.
And let me share something about my own experience going to Plan B.
The first week after I did it, I was okay and then WHAM! I was massively depressed/griefstricken. I had to start a supplement to handle my emotions. It is our own withdrawal from the one we love.
I personally took Sam-E but others take antidepressants.
Consider what you would do if you arrive at that juncture and maybe pre-start something with your physician's guidannce so you will be able to rise above and ride the waves.
In the article What Are Plan A and Plan B? Dr Harley explains that Plan A takes a terrible toll on all BSs and should not be continued indefinitely:
But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.
Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.
So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.
With regards to changing the locks, I advised a real life BS here in Ontario to do this. The BS said that they were told by their lawyer that this could not be done, that you can't lock your spouse out of the marital home. The BS explained it more, but I can't remember the details ..... sorry.
I'm telling you this so that you can be prepared if this is an issue. Find out from your lawyer exactly how to do this the right way, if it can be done. The last thing you want is WH legally forcing you to change the locks back, and then go in and out as he pleases.
In my case, I locked the doors with H's stuff in the drive, he pounded on the windows, screamed vile stuff all the while red as a beet. But .... he did respect my wishes to not come back in the home.
You may not be that lucky to have a co-operative WH.
I don't think he will argue about leaving. I do think he is going to be shocked that I am asking him to go but I think he will go. He thought I was kicking him out a week and a half ago and I said that I just wanted him out of the room not the house but then I invited him back into our room.
The funny thing is that he didn't want to take all of his stuff. It was like our home was going to be his storage unit. I did tell him that that wasn't happening and when I talked to OW that bad night, I told her that I hoped she had made plenty of room because she was getting all of his stuff too. Her response was snotty and she said "Why don't you just move in to?"
I do know that legally I am not allowed to change the locks but I am just going to ask him for the keys back.
The day I picked to do this is my birthday. I figure he picked our anniversary to give me the ILYBNILWY speech so I am taking some control back. I exposed to everyone I know will be in contact with them other than her side (I really can't find anyone there so that will be their refuge but I made sure that it is getting out to the employees at their work too.)
I do have an IM set up. It is a couple we have jointly known for 11 years and they are like second parents to us. Our kids even call them grandma and grandpa. They are very trustworthy and I know they want what is best for our family.
I am planning on putting his stuff on the porch and I wasn't sure what to do after that. Do I just let him come home and discover it? Do I not let the kids say good-bye?
My Dear WH, I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. I focused too much on the children and neglected to meet your emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends x and x have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever is convenient to you and as discussed. But I will not be around when you pick them up for your visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through x and x.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with her. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW and are willing to ensure total separation (including a NO CONTACT for Life with her), I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing OW.
With my love, BW
To break the No Contact with me these are the steps YOU must take 1. You must WANT to work on our marriage 2. You must end the affair with OW 3. You will write a No Contact letter to OW and have it okayed by me and then you will send it. 4. You will leave WORKPLACE (unless she has left first) 5. You will agree to follow a marriage counseling plan of my choosing. 6. You will take a sexually transmitted disease test and I will see the results.
I do know that legally I am not allowed to change the locks but I am just going to ask him for the keys back.
Change the locks anyway. Just don't tell WH. The only way he'll find out is if he tries to get in.
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The day I picked to do this is my birthday.
SEE how awesomely strong and brave you've become!
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I do have an IM set up. It is a couple we have jointly known for 11 years and they are like second parents to us. Our kids even call them grandma and grandpa. They are very trustworthy and I know they want what is best for our family.
Wonderful! Be sure they understand they are not to pass any emotional content on to you. Business only. Other than that, all WH's drama stops at their door.
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I am planning on putting his stuff on the porch and I wasn't sure what to do after that. Do I just let him come home and discover it? Do I not let the kids say good-bye?
This is your family. What do you think the pros and cons are of either decision? Noodle it out here.
Well Christmas is always at my families house and Boxing day (day after xmas) is at my MIL. I have that he will be able to pick them up at 9 am and drop them off by 11pm. I also have to work the next morning so he will have to pick them up in the morning again. He won't have anywhere to take them but his place with her so I don't know where he is going to take them when he has them and how I can force him to not take them around her.
Well Christmas is always at my families house and Boxing day (day after xmas) is at my MIL. I have that he will be able to pick them up at 9 am and drop them off by 11pm. I also have to work the next morning so he will have to pick them up in the morning again. He won't have anywhere to take them but his place with her so I don't know where he is going to take them when he has them and how I can force him to not take them around her.
You can't. Unless you file for legal separation and make that one of the stipulations. But, if you think he will bring the kids around the homewrecker, have a heart-to-heart talk with the kids BEFORE this happens. Tell them they cancall you anytime, if anything is upsetting to them. Chances are, if he brings them to be with OW, the kids will call you ... and the adultery "party" is ruined.
Now about the kids being here when it happens: Pro: WH will see the looks on their faces as he is leaving WH and children won't actually see eachother for 8 days Cons: kids will be sad (this is a big deal) but they will be sad anyways WH will accuse me of using them
I just don't know which way to go. I know that some people have argued that he needs to have the memory of their sad faces as he left but I am asking him to go so I don't know if that will benefit me or not
I just don't know which way to go. I know that some people have argued that he needs to have the memory of their sad faces as he left but I am asking him to go so I don't know if that will benefit me or not
I'd base my decision on the most vulnerable child and what's best for him/her.
Finances -You have agreed to continue to put your Pay Cheques in the bank accounts for the time being. The express understanding is that any monies taken out by either party is out of necessity for living.
-At such time when You feel that you no longer would like to do this I will require 30 days WRITTEN notice. (any fees arising out of no notice shall be paid by you)
When the finances are separate I would ask for the following -$x every 2 weeks for child and spousal support to be deposited into the joint account by 10 am on our regular pay day(to be negotiated higher if your wage should increase) -$x every 2 weeks for truck payment so as not to bounce anything (unless you would like to change where this comes out of) -$x every month for your Cell phone -$x by the 20th of every month for the truck insurance -Credit card payments will be made by you, as I no longer have access to it and none of the charges after December 1st are mine.
-You will keep me on as a second driver on the insurance until June 30th 2010 when I will be able to find my own. -You will keep the children on your benefits at work for as long as you have coverage -You will keep me on your benefits until June 30, 2010
-You will remove any items that you wish from the shed by January 5, 2010 or any items left will be considered abandoned and I will do what I please with them. -You will also remove the grandam from the driveway by the same date or it will also be considered abandoned.
-At such time when You feel that you no longer would like to do this I will require 30 days WRITTEN notice. (any fees arising out of no notice shall be paid by you)
Take this out. He doesn't just get to "feel like" not supporting his family. Tough sh*t. it's his responsibility and having an A doesn't excuse him from this.
Also...explain to your IMs that they are "spam filters". They shouldn't forward emails or messages directly from him and they should take out EVERYTHING EVEN REMOTELY EMOTIONAL.
For example: one time my FWH took some great pics of one of our kids and asked our IM to fwd them to me. She thanked him for the nice pics but said she will not be forwarding them...that he can show them to me personally when he moves back home.
He also was reading my posts here and wanted to respond to one of my posts and tell me how sorry he was that I was hurting so badly...she again told him she would not be passing that info on to me, he could tell me himself when he agreed to my PB conditions.
My Dear WH, I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible. I focused too much on the children and neglected to meet your emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.Take this part out - it sounds like you are taking responsibility for his choice to cheat. Maybe change it to "...and I'm sorry."
I am willing"have learned"to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past. I look forward tocreating a new life for both of us that meets both our needs. But we cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW once and for all.
Until then, I have chosen to avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends x and x have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever is convenient to you and as discussed. But I will not be around when you pick them up for your visit.I would delete that sentence. Let him find it out the hard way. If you need to communicate urgent information about the children or finances, it will need to be through x and x.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, and I simply cannot bear to be with you any longer, knowing that you are also with her. I still love you but I cannot keep seeing you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW and are willing to ensure total separation (including a NO CONTACT for Life with her)change to a more simple, "have no contact with her for the rest of your life", I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this daychange to "today". I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing OW.To me, this is kind of a downer to end on. Maybe something like "I look forward to the day when we will always be together," or something muchy like that. It makes a much stronger ending than tossing the irrelevant OW in there as your final word.
I would caution against doing this on your birthday. Just in case you do succeed in recovering your marriage (or even if you don't for that matter), you don't need your birthday to be such a potentially bad trigger day.
Also change the first paragraph. You aren't responsible for his choice to cheat. You are 1/2, he is 1/2.
To break the No Contact with mePerhaps change to, "Before I will consider resuming direct communication with you, these are the steps YOU must take: 1. You must WANT to work on our marriage 2. You must end the affair with OW 3. You will write a No Contact letter to OW and have it okayed by me and then you"I" will send it - this is crucial!!!! You CANNOT trust a waynerd to actually mail the letter. will send it. 4. You will leave WORKPLACE (unless she has left first) 5. You will agree to follow a marriage counseling plan of my choosing. 6. You will take a sexually transmitted disease test and I will see the results.
Also, you might want to hold onto this list. Being willing to go NC with the OW is your first and foremost hurdle. If he contacts the IM's and expresses his willingness for NC, then the IM's could give him this list to work on. After that, he would be able to talk to you for as long as he proceeded with R. A breach of NC, and it's right back to the cooler for him!
It might be a bit much for him to digest at the beginning of Plan B. Being evicted from his cake-eating haven and told he can't come back till he ditches the witch is already almost more than his little alien=scrambled brain can take in all at once.
I agree on holding the list of requirements for if he comes to talk from B.
Make it the touching love letter with the requirement of permanent no contact with OW and have the list of items available if and when the time comes.
I have my list of requirements for if I ever cross that bridge routine lie detector letter to OW that I read and see mailed move to another area (she is very near by) counseling with a Harley
the part that I have in the finances part about giving me 30 days notice is because he said he is going to put his pay cheques in to the bank as usual. I just wanted to make sure then when he decides to stop (because I am sure OW won't be happy about him supporting ME). I guess I could just put the first line in and then give my IM the list of the support and stuff for after.
I am changing the letter with your edits, and I will give IM the list to break no contact with me.
In SAA it said that Jon sent the letter to Greg too with the bottom line added. Do you think that is a good idea?
Last night, I Plan A'd my butt off and made sure to touch him as often as possible. The first few times that I did it he didn't even react. My game was to see how many times I would have to touch him before he would react. Well, it took 6 touches but that is probably because I made the last one a good one. I leaned over with my "assets" out and lightly touched behind his head (this drives him NUTS). His reaction wasn't to pull away (which I thought for sure he would do) instead he just said "WHAAAAHT" and I said "Oh, nothing" and went to bed. I made sure that when he came to bed I was "on display" and he wrapped himself up in his blanket and rolled over.
I touched him 6 more times while he was in bed and sleeping until he reacted and got angry that I woke him up. I simply said "I couldn't resist"
It is hard to keep up the charade when what I really want to flick him in the head and tell him how mad I am at him but I am doing what is best.
I have chosen my birthday because it is Dec 18. I could do it on Dec 19 instead. The only thing is that he would be home and so would the kids. I could call in sick to work on Dec 17th and do it that day but then the kids would have to go to school the next morning. Dec 18th just seems like the best choice and it doesn't bother me that it is my bday and he doesn't really care about birthdays and stuff anyways.
I'm a big fan of sending the OW a copy of the PBL. However, if you do, you might add one more line in the last paragraph making VERY clear that you are not giving up. "I believe in our M, I believe in you, and I am not giving up on us." Etc.
~Snicker~ about the Touch Game. You're doing great!
As far as which day to choose, pick what works best for you. With your birthday at this time of year, there will be triggers no matter what you decide on. For me, the first year or two was pretty triggery around that time, but after that it was more of hoo-yeah, I'm da woman!!! It's a day of celebration and triumph, and rejoicing in God's victory. Chances are, you'll be able to claim it as V-day, too, no matter what happens.
Although you won't have a choice over what triggers you, it will just do it, you can choose which triggers you work at to reclaim as part of your life. (I think of it as peeing on stuff to make it mine again, lol.)
Also, when you have a chance, look on here for some of the IM threads. There is lots of helpful advice that might benefit your IM's, and prepare them for what they may experience.
The only thing I would change is being specific about the Emotional Needs you are aware of, what you will change to fulfill those in the future.
He will probably not throw this letter away and will reread it later. Let it be a reminder of your Plan A...
Whatever EN's you know he wants and will remember, state those...like "I know I focused on the children and on life and did not give you enough affection and appreciation. I do appreciate you and love to hug and kiss you and promise when our M is recovered I will continue to appreciate you and hug and kiss you and will not forget to do this again."
Just an example. Using the term EN doesn't have the same power as spelling out specific actions.
Think of him reading this letter later after he gets into a raging argument with OW about the kids or finances or how he is still hung up on you and he is reminded how he has a loving wife at home that appreciates and wants to be affectionate (or whatever his most important EN's are) and how you will look like filet mignon, and she will look like chopped liver.
What will help in Plan B is to think that she gets a shame-ridden WH that is a shadow of hisself. And you are waiting until he wakes up and wants to stand up again.
Sending a copy to the OW is great for these reasons:
Let's her know YOU sent him away (he can't tell her he left because of his being hot to be her man)
She realizes (even down deep if nowhere else) that it is NOT over even though he is seperated
It is an example how deeply loved he is by his wife (the love letter aspect) and she has been avoiding that idea and thinking you two are nothing as a romantic couple.
You could have him leave and then let a few days pass before handing him the actual letter and going to B. In the book they do that and posters here have mentioned that the novelty of being out of the house wears off and it allows you a few days to be in contact to iron things out (kids visitation, finanacial stuff).
Maybe get him out on the 19th and stay wonderfully civil and on the 23rd give him the letter and go dark (explaining your pain dealing with the affair since you love him so very much)? Just an idea.
Well now more DRAMA. WH called me today which was totally unexpected. I said "Hello" and he said "My work would like me to tell you to stop emailing and calling them. There is nothing they are going to about this." I said, "Um I don't understand" Then he said "they want you to stop emailing them and calling them there is nothing for them to do." I said "Ok but I didn't email." then he said "well they just said to stop. Oh and BTW I have a list of people who you can talk to about it and they will get fired." I said "what do you mean?" and he said "there is a list of people you can call and when they tell you anything about it they will get fired because it goes against our confidentiality agreement."
I couldn't believe it. I mean there is a possible sexual harrassment case out of this because if others are uncomfortable with their relationship and have mentioned it to management and nothing came of it they can sue.
When I got off of the phone I felt totally hopeless. I mean I am trying very hard to keep the Plan A going and when these things come up it is hard to do. I have to go to work tonight too and things always tend to happen when I have to go to work.
My mom was here when I got the call and she started telling me how he was being a POSWH and really cruel and I didn't deserve this and in a few weeks after I get over him I can find someone better and move on. She said I had to grieve first and move on and I said I really want to save this marriage and I know that it is possible and right now he is being an a_- but I still love him tremendously and I believe in marriage. I don't believe in living in unhappiness but the worst thing we had in our M before this was that we BOTH didn't know how to meet eachother's ENs and we let our Taker do the talking and did a lot of LBs.
I am feeling pretty low right now because of our conversation on the phone. He wasn't angry he was snotty and cruel. I think he was enjoying it. I know I have to keep Plan A and meet emotional needs that I can but honestly when I get like this I almost want to give up.
Don't let WH's call shake you up too much....it is possible that they came down on him for the A and told him to keep it out of the workplace and he retaliated by calling you and telling you they told him to tell you to stop. The added bit about people who will be fired if they talk to you is possibly because they are making him uncomfortable and causing the employer to look more closely at WH and OW's activities.
ok I never thought of it that way. I thought of it as truth (SILLY ME). It is possible that they asked him to pass on the info but I only sent 2 letters and called once and I know it couldn't have been done in an official way because THEY would have sent me a letter or something.
I know that they aren't going to do anything about it and I actually have noone who is going to put pressure on them. It seems that WH has created a life where he can get away with this type of behaviour and still go about life as usual.
Oh well, thanx anyways. I just needed to vent and get a bit of a pick me up before I had to deal with work. They are understanding there and have done many things to support me but I don't want to be crying and sad there all of the time, i don't want to risk my job.
Don't let WH's call shake you up too much....it is possible that they came down on him for the A and told him to keep it out of the workplace and he retaliated by calling you and telling you they told him to tell you to stop. The added bit about people who will be fired if they talk to you is possibly because they are making him uncomfortable and causing the employer to look more closely at WH and OW's activities.
Exactly what I was going to say.
Good work!
NOW his work knows all about how he abuses workplace to screw women.
And don't you know that he is now TOPIC #1 all over that company!
I would expect him to be plenty mad, but his script is, "NOW YOU'VE DONE IT! I WAS JUST ABOUT TO PICK YOU AND NOW I'M NOT! NOW THERE'S NO CHANCE WE'LL EVER GET BACK TOGETHER AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! YOU BLEW IT!!!"
OW's script is...well...pretty much what he said to you.
Neither one of them likes people at work knowing about this, guaranteed!
Yep, your phone call made HR sit up and NOTICE!!! What a GODDESS you are.....
And yep, it sounds like he didn't care for being in the "hot-seat"......
(and FYI, I was giddy with delight reading this.....nothing makes my day like a fellow GODDESS busting up a dirty, nasty A.... )
Originally Posted by Scotland
Oh and BTW I have a list of people who you can talk to about it and they will get fired.
I would look my very bestest, smell tantalizingly good, and have an amazing dinner on the stove, and when he walks in the door ask as sweet as apple pie....."Honey, did you bring home that list??".....
Call HIS bluff......(because I don't believe for ONE SECOND he made any such list...)
and if he asks stumbles and asks why you want it, just tell him you are thinking about taking him up on his offer....and then walk away and let the subject drop.....
....stoopid waywards....
not2fun
ps...this is a major blow in the A....you did well my friend
I would expect him to be plenty mad, but his script is, "NOW YOU'VE DONE IT! I WAS JUST ABOUT TO PICK YOU AND NOW I'M NOT! NOW THERE'S NO CHANCE WE'LL EVER GET BACK TOGETHER AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT! YOU BLEW IT!!!"
OW's script is...well...pretty much what he said to you.
Neither one of them likes people at work knowing about this, guaranteed!
Maybe something like "I look forward to the day when we will always be together," or something muchy like that
"Muchy", Neak? Here I always thought your dad just wasn't romantic enough, and what I needed all along was for him to be "muchy."
"Give me a kiss, dear, and make it muchy." "Oh, goody, here's another muchy love card." I LOVE being your mother. You're the only one on MB I can make fun of and still be sure of being looooooooooooved!
tl
P.S. I mailed your Christmas pkg. today, so you'd better watch out; you'd better not pout!
I said "Hello" and he said "My work would like me to tell you to stop emailing and calling them. There is nothing they are going to about this." I said, "Um I don't understand" Then he said "they want you to stop emailing them and calling them there is nothing for them to do." I said "Ok but I didn't email." then he said "well they just said to stop. Oh and BTW I have a list of people who you can talk to about it and they will get fired." I said "what do you mean?" and he said "there is a list of people you can call and when they tell you anything about it they will get fired because it goes against our confidentiality agreement."
aka ..... ' I got my a$$ hauled in the office today and got CRAP for having a GF cuz my WIFE squealed on me ...... WHAAAAAAAAAA '
I soooo agree with what others have said about the call.
Don't get rattled, but be proud of yourself for writing the letter to HR and then following up on it.
I'd call his bluff too on the 'so called list of names', preferably when WH's mouth is full of his supper. lol
Thank you people. When I was at work lat night I was thinking about the fact that he said stop emailing. I never sent one email. I figured you guys/gals were right because his work would have known that. Then I also figured that if it was an official response from his work they would have sent me a letter/email/phone call instead of getting him to call me and pass on a message.
On wednesday and thursday nights when I go to work, he comes in the door and I walk out. So, when he got home last night I walked up to his and rubbed my hand on his chest. He tried to get away and said "WHHAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTT" and I smiled and said "Have a good night tonight." Then I said "Love you boys. Be good for Daddy." and walked out the door.
I thought about asking for the list, but I didn't think I could pull it off without sounding snotty about it so I decided to either let it go.
When I went to bed, I made sure I snuggled up as close as I could and I put my hand on his back. Then when he rolled over I touched his cheek. That woke him up and he grunted and rolled over.
I was a little sneaky too. I looked at his cell phone and noticed that sometime this week he erased my picture from his cell phone. To get him back for this, I took 3 topless pictures with it. My hope is that he won't notice them, and then when he leaves and she gets crazy jealous when SHE finds them.
About the work response. I figure that what was probably said to them was something like "Keep your relationship out of the workplace." Even if they can't DO anything about it, now THEY KNOW. I am glad that I handled it well on the phone with him and gave him the reaction I did when he got home so I cold stay in Plan A.
I am trying to win the WAR sometimes I forget that fact. Thanx everyone.
Scotland, I don't have much time but I just wanted to say that I just finished reading your thread and have basically been following for some time. You're a hero and I'm drawing inspiration from you. thanks. Optimism
I thought about asking for the list, but I didn't think I could pull it off without sounding snotty about it so I decided to either let it go.
Good call - you're the one on the ground, so you have to decide whether something will work for a given situation.
Keep that response handy though, as there may be a point where it will work. If he brings it up again, you could say sweetly, "Oh yes, please be sure to bring home that list you promised me, k? Have you tried the minestrone?"
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I was a little sneaky too. I looked at his cell phone and noticed that sometime this week he erased my picture from his cell phone. To get him back for this, I took 3 topless pictures with it. My hope is that he won't notice them, and then when he leaves and she gets crazy jealous when SHE finds them.
First of all, you are doing an AWESOME Plan A!!! I hope you put every bit of this effort into a dark and effective Plan B, too, because so far you're a natural.
Now, if only he sees these photos, that is wonderful. That is what needs to be your goal. The OW seeing them too would be icing, and of course you can't help hoping. Just don't make that your focus.
Plant notes, photos, undies, whatever, with the knowledge that no matter who finds them, each one strikes a blow against the A. If you have narrow expectations you're more prone to be disappointed. So keep yourself open, since almost everything that happens, though it seem good or bad at the time, is working for good in the long run. (A BS's LB's are just about the only things that are 100% in the "Bad" category. Everything else goes under "A-busting".)
I was a little sneaky too. I looked at his cell phone and noticed that sometime this week he erased my picture from his cell phone. To get him back for this, I took 3 topless pictures with it. My hope is that he won't notice them, and then when he leaves and she gets crazy jealous when SHE finds them.
ROFL...LOVE.THIS!
<Just make sure your kids don't get ahold of his cell phone, LOL...our kids recently found similar pics that I had taken and before I realized what was happening, they passed it around to all 4 of them, screeching "Moooooommmmm!!! What in the heck is this?!?!?!?" I told them to ask their dad. >
P.S. You are doing an AWESOME Plan A, I am very proud of you! You are almost there, keep it up and avoid those LBers like the plague!! Great job!
<Just make sure your kids don't get ahold of his cell phone, LOL...our kids recently found similar pics that I had taken and before I realized what was happening, they passed it around to all 4 of them, screeching "Moooooommmmm!!! What in the heck is this?!?!?!?" I told them to ask their dad. >
<Just make sure your kids don't get ahold of his cell phone, LOL...our kids recently found similar pics that I had taken and before I realized what was happening, they passed it around to all 4 of them, screeching "Moooooommmmm!!! What in the heck is this?!?!?!?" I told them to ask their dad. >
I don't remember you mentioning thisbefore.
Because it's embarrassing!! DH thought it was funny but I wasn't so sure.
Because it's embarrassing!! DH thought it was funny but I wasn't so sure.
He was right! It IS funny!
It's a little bit funnier now but at the time I didn't think it was so funny...I didn't even know how to answer them! I am sure I turned about 10 different shades of red while I thrashed about the car trying to get my phone back from them!
Thanx for the encouragement. I am definitely going to do my best with the Plan B. I also hope I can keep it up as well. I am just going to keep remembering that I am doing that to save myself any more pain.
I am only doing so well since I got the advice from you guys to do those things to get in their A. I am now having FUN with it and coming up with new ways to get in to his head. I figure it works in many ways. I get to have a space in his head that OW can't get to. I also get to speed up the jealous, insecure, crazy person who I am sure is in her. That part I won't actually know about since I will be in Plan B but I have a great imagination.
It is also easy to think of things that I can do that I will be able to keep up when he comes back. If I were doing things I wouldn't be able to do later, I think that would be unfair to him and more importantly, ME. The love notes, texts and flirting I most definitely will be able to keep up.
Hey Scotland, got any old family pics around, maybe from past Christmas's ???
Without too much overkill, you could get some out and display them, pull at WH's heartstrings and remind him that he has a loving family and a wife that believes in her M.
We've got some Xmas decorations for the tree that our kids made when they were young. Old photos glued onto a small paper plate with a strand of yarn for a hanger. These are some of my most favourite decorations.
I got a pic in my head of WH walking in the door and the kids are making these same type of decorations only using family photos.
I have just read your entire thread after noticing your "Plan A" award. I am always amazed at how resilient we betrayed spouses can be when the person we loved and trusted most in the world has betrayed us.
That said, I would never allow semi nude pictures of myself into the hands of people who do not have my best interest at heart or anyone for that matter. A couple of clicks on her cell phone and those pics along with whatever story she/they choose to circulate goes to anyone she/they choose including being published to the internet. Those pics could very well become the reason that your WH left you or could come up in a custody hearing.
This site has invaluable information and advice but i feel that this was not a move to be applauded. Sorry to be a downer. You as well as all the BS on this site are always in my prayers.
Why do I think it looks worse--in this hypothetical custody battle--for the husband who gives his own wife's sexy pictures to his skanky girlfriend, who then maliciously posts them online, than it does for the wife who gave them to her spouse in the first place?
tl
P.S. Not to say there are any naked pictures of me floating around anywhere. I'm much too inhibited. But I just can't see the unfaithful husband, and his vicious ho, looking like better parental units, in this scenario, than the wronged wife.
It would be difficult if not immpossible to determine where those pics originated and to whom they were originally sent especially if they end up on the net.
I didn't send them to anyone I took them with his phone. I believe that when he finds them he will actually delete them. He has been reading texts, messages, and emails and just deleting them.
My face isn't in the pictures so I don't know that they could actually PROVE who the pictures are of. I also don't know how taking these pictures would make me a bad parent. There are many people who are strippers, porn stars or even prostitutes who have children and these children don't get taken away.
I can see your point but they are tasteful. In Ontario, where we live, it is LEGAL to walk around topless.
I do think I am really getting in to his head though. Last night after work I went with a friend to a coffee shop. We got off at 1230am and I said "well, I guess I don't have to worry about him calling me since he doesn't care." At 215am my cell phone rang. It was him. He asked me if I was coming home tonight. I said "yes I am." He said "Ok" and then hung up. I left a few minutes later (we were leaving anyways) and when I got home and went to bed he was still awake but he didn't say anything. Neither did I and I went to sleep but I made sure I laid my hand on him and he didn't move away. At 5am I was so cold and I cuddled right up to him and he didn't move.
I know that it isn't great signs but it is something. One more week of Plan A and then it is on to Plan B. I still haven't found her family's info yet but I did my best. That's all I wanted to do so I could say that no matter which way this ends up I did the best I could.
She's overseas, right? What about searching the internet for facebook-type sites over there, and posting a thread asking if anyone knows her. You never know!
No she's not overseas, they work together. Her mom lives somewhere far up north. I know that her brother lives in the same city as she does, which is 20 minutes away from where I live. She had a my space account and a facebook account but they were set to very high privacy so no luck in finding any of her friends.
I am ok with it if I can't get her info because I did try.
I do think I am really getting in to his head though.
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I made sure I laid my hand on him and he didn't move away. At 5am I was so cold and I cuddled right up to him and he didn't move.
Frame a family photo, and display it in a place of honor in your home. Make it a good one. Smiling happy faces. The day before you drop the Plan B bomb, remove it. Put it in his stuff when you pack up his crap.
You are doing so very good. He will miss sleeping with you when he is gone. He really will.
And, I think the pics of your assets will not be a problem. You are his wife. He is living with you right now. He has seen your assets and anyone else who sees them, well, not YOUR fault!
Breasts ARE a part of a female's anatomy and used to feed infants (though men adore them, that isn't what they were built for! LOL).
Check FB account again. New privacy settings have been established just this week. Friend lists are available to "everyone." I have not found a way to change mine. It would be worth a try.
Frame a family photo, and display it in a place of honor in your home. Make it a good one. Smiling happy faces. The day before you drop the Plan B bomb, remove it. Put it in his stuff when you pack up his crap.
Oh ... and put an "extra" copy of the Plan B letter behind the photo, inside the frame. (unseen)
If WH says he cannot re-read the Plan B letter because he threw it away ... have your IM say:
"Scotty thought of that. Open the frame and there is an extra copy behind the family photo."
well i was doing a little more searching on OW and I actually found a facebook post that she wrote that had a lot of email addresses on it. I think I will be sending out a few emails. Well this is an interesting development. I hope her family members are on there.
Any suggestions as to what I write to her friends?
I not only know her Last name, I know her bday, and her license plate number for her car. I know her previous address but she moved last October because I caused problems at her apartment when I showed up there one night.
I have a list of emails that may or may not be friends of hers on facebook but I wanna know what you think I should write when I contact them. I am going to be doing it on Monday morning, so any input would be appreciated.
My name is Scotland, and I'm writing you to ask for your help. My WH is having an A w/ your friend, OW. I very much want to save my M, but cannot work on it as long as she is involved w/ my WH. Would you please talk to OW and encourage her to do the right thing and leave my WH alone?
If anyone writes back and is sympathetic to your sitch, ask them if they'd help you find OW's address and/or other friends or family of OW so that you can contact them.
OMG ok so I looked back at that page and now her profile is OPEN and I am now messaging whoever has the same last name as her. WOW KARMA is AWESOME today. And to think I was about to give up on finding her family. I am using what you wrote Marsh
My name is BS, and I'm writing you to ask for your help. My Husband, WH is having an Affair OW. I very much want to save my Marriage, but cannot work on it as long as she is involved with my Husband. Would you please talk to OW and encourage her to do the right thing and leave my Husband alone?
I believe in Karma and I guess it is in my favour today. I gotta pick the kids up from school now but I sent 5 messages to family members and I did it stategically to try to get her mom and brother. He is gonna be MAD at me. Well, i guess more Plan A. Maybe I will send him a flirty text right now
I thought of that but WH will say that I am using the kids. There is a picture of me with them on my facebook account which is where I am sending the messages from. I think they will understand.
I would do all the exposing at once, all today...like a bandaid you want to rip off all at one time. If you drag this exposure out you will negate the hard work you have done in Plan A. Because the exposure is being done so late you might consider extending your Plan A just a few days so he leaves with a sweet and not a bitter taste in his mouth...
Well I think I am done with the exposing now. She has 289 friends but I wrote to all of the people with the same last name as hers. I am sure the word will spread around the family if I didn't get the brother and mother. I am still going to Plan A till Friday. We are all off next Saturday and I could send my kids to my sister's house and do it then. I am not totally sure. I am still going to Plan A and we will see what happens with this now.
I really needed a pick me up to end my GLORIOUS week ;D
Check your own settings on FB too. I just checked mine. Many of the things in my profile that were previously hidden from all but my friends are now visible to everyone including my photos and info! I am considerind deleting my account.
Yes, he will be livid. The waywards hate the fantasy bubble being disturbed and they obviously don't think that they, themselves are worth fighting for (must have low opinions of their 'entitled' selves)
Keep the bravery through any stuff he flings your way. Calmness. Kindness. Lovingness despite the dreadful situation.
say, Scotland didn't send it to the OW, she sent these pics to her H...I still think it was a great Plan A move.
ITA!!!!!.....when in Plan A a BS is sometimes torn between what they can/should/ought/should not/can't do...and sometimes when one is too busy weighting out the pro's and con's they miss a great Plan A opportunity......
If her marriage doesn't make it, Scotland can look back at her Plan A and know she did EVERYTHING possible to try and save it.....
There's no reason to stop at just her family for sending out a message. This OW is a piece of poop on a stick right now, if you can rock her world upside down, go for it. She will for certain go ballistic and take it out on WH. The idea being that WH will major LB'd by her and she may seem more trouble than what she is worth.
Go for the whole list of friends. Remember you are only stating the truth, you aren't slandering her.
My understanding about FB is they reset everyone's settings, but you just need to manually set yourself up to the way you want it again...
When I logged into FB for the first time since they made their changes, I had to click on a pop-up to acknowledge the changes. Getting past that, I found all my changes as I had left them (but I don't have a lot of granular restrictions, either).
Vitt- I don't think FB allows mass mailings like that; spam controls and such...
Scotland my dear, you are AMAZING! Whether you get a chance at healing your M or just your 'self', please know that there are many BS's on here that applaud you and support you!
I wish I had had the b*lls you're showing when I found out of my H's infidelity; it took me a year or so to find mine!
She will for certain go ballistic and take it out on WH. The idea being that WH will major LB'd by her and she may seem more trouble than what she is worth.
Quoted For Truth. The Other Man getting furious at me and taking it out on my wife was a key, critical moment. It was the moment she stopped falling deeper into the fog and began to have moments of lucidity. Just had to get that Love Bank balance down below the "Other Person can do no wrong and I'm so in luuuuvvvv" level.
Another key was that while he was furious, and she was furious... I wasn't. I stayed calm and didn't respond with anger.
Bottlerocket, I'm thinking that if she had the venue to send to the 'same last names', then she would be able to send to all OW's friends. broken_soul did this I'm fairly sure.
The only thing I wondered was, don't you have to be accepted as a friend before you can send someone else's friend a message. I'm not FB savvy, I diddle on my kids FB. I was prepared to do this with FOW's FB friends but thought I had to befriend her first, which I figured she would deny.
Bottlerocket, I'm thinking that if she had the venue to send to the 'same last names', then she would be able to send to all OW's friends. broken_soul did this I'm fairly sure.
The only thing I wondered was, don't you have to be accepted as a friend before you can send someone else's friend a message. I'm not FB savvy, I diddle on my kids FB. I was prepared to do this with FOW's FB friends but thought I had to befriend her first, which I figured she would deny.
You know, I'm still learning FB myself, so it's worth a try, the most FB could do is not deliver the msg. I do know for sure that you don't have to be a friend to somebody to send them a msg.
Bottlerocket, I'm thinking that if she had the venue to send to the 'same last names', then she would be able to send to all OW's friends. broken_soul did this I'm fairly sure.
The only thing I wondered was, don't you have to be accepted as a friend before you can send someone else's friend a message. I'm not FB savvy, I diddle on my kids FB. I was prepared to do this with FOW's FB friends but thought I had to befriend her first, which I figured she would deny.
One way around that is to do individual friend requests to all of HER friends. When you're doing a friend request, you also have the option of sending a "message" with it. Those that want to communicate will accept her request.
I noticed that about the FB changes. Went into my page and my privacy settings were maintained at "friends only". But my pages and groups are visible to all now---no way to change that. I don't like that.
However, I was able to get into a bit more of OW's FB page photos because some of her friends hadn't changed their privacy settings and commented on her photos. I wish she weren't so darn good looking. Same age as me and looks 10 years younger!
Flick and I have FB and when I checked ours this morning every single setting is set to "friends only". if someone searches for either of us they do not even get to see a profile picture. Just our IRL names.
Also I have sent people messages on FB without ever befriending them, I assume it's because they have not disabled that fuinction themselves.
Mine are set to "friends only" but there is a button you can click that says something like "see your profile the way the public views it" and when I did that, it brought up my picture, my pages and my groups. Almost everyone to whom I'm NOT friended---I can see their pics, pages and groups.
One way around that is to do individual friend requests to all of HER friends. When you're doing a friend request, you also have the option of sending a "message" with it. Those that want to communicate will accept her request.
Can you say..Cut and paste? lol
Great job scotland you GO girlfren. Keep us posted and stay strong..
Ahh, well when I did the same I got a blank page with a blue face, mt IRL name and a messages that said 'Lil only shares info with her friends; or something similar.
Under the privacy settings have you set EVERYTHING to friends only? Setting things to friends of friends makes more stuff publicaly avaialble, and I have discovered that since PQ and I were both Flicks friends for a while, that even tho he deleted that account and has a completly new one (didnt just change the old one) I still can see her FB page. I assume its because of the friends of friends setting since I have asked a few FB friends to go look and they get blocked.
You can send messages without being friends. They have the option to block you if they don't want additional messages, but by then who cares?
FWIW, I'm very much in favor of the pix. There's always some risk of something being spread, but to me it would be worth it. (Unless some really kinky photos existed and then got out, I don't think it would impact custody. Most judges aren't going to care that a wife sent risque pix to her lawful husband.)
Everybody has their own threshold on this, and that's ok.
I noticed that about the FB changes. Went into my page and my privacy settings were maintained at "friends only". But my pages and groups are visible to all now---no way to change that. I don't like that.
However, I was able to get into a bit more of OW's FB page photos because some of her friends hadn't changed their privacy settings and commented on her photos. I wish she weren't so darn good looking. Same age as me and looks 10 years younger!
That's because she didn't get stuck working three jobs to support her husband.
I am sure she realized what happened and change her FB privacy settings. It is because of the new settings that they put in. I got one response back and all it said was "I know OW but I don't know you". WH is very distant today but totally not talking about any of it.
I can't get in trouble with FB because I am just looking up her friends and cut and pasting the message over and over again.
I kept trying to touch him, my new favourite game, but he kept trying to get away. He still hasn't found the photos on his phone because they are still there. He erased the texts and threw away the letters without even acknowledging them to me. I don't need him to talk to me about them, I know by him pulling away that they are getting to him.
Just before I came down to check on my thread, I touched his shoulder. He jumped and then pulled his blanket over his shoulder and tucked it right in. I waited a couple of minutes and then I came down. I will touch him again while I am in bed with him and I will cuddle as close as I can. He is the one who chose to keep sleeping in the bed after all
As for why he is waiting until February, it was my idea at first. He told me he was thinking about leaving me on September 20th. I told him that he could leave November 1st. He told me that was too soon. Then I said that if he didn't leave then, then he wouldn't be able to leave until February so as to not ruin Xmas for the kids or our youngest son's bday who is in January.
The funny thing is that when I talked to OW on that bad night, she made it sound like it was WH's idea. I made sure that I told her that it was funny she thought that was his idea, but it was actually mine. I was hoping to poke a couple of holes in her fantasy bubble of him. Even on the keylogger he made himself sound good. The first thing he said was that he would brb because he was making dinner. I yelled at the screen "liar, I already fed the kids and you were just warming up the dinner I left for you. TURD"
Well, one day their little fantasy bubble will crack. Who knows how long and where I will be then but either way I will be happy to know I did everything in my power to save my M.
I still have HOPE and FAITH. Sometimes the universe sends me funny little signs of encouragement and sometimes it sends me strange cruel signs.
I will share this one funny incident with you. I work at the customer service counter of a MAJOR retailer. I had a lady come up to me and ask if I could page her friend for her. I said "Sure what is her name?" She said OW's name (NO JOKE). I inhaled deeply but did my job. She walked away. Then she returned a minute later and said "Do you know So-in SO" I said "Yes I went to college with him" She said, "I used to date him and he took me to your wedding." I just smiled and she walked away. Then I looked up and said "Now that was MEAN" My friends said things like that could only happen to me. Gotta laugh it off sometimes.
Waywards sure DO embellish/lie to their other people.
Mine would tell his that he took our youngest to a movie to impress her with his gentleness as a father and would leave out the fact that I went with them! LOL. And so on and so on.
You know that they have to lie to the other people. That is why the affairs can not realistically survive the test of time. Sure, they lie to us but hopefully the marriages were not originally built on lies....the lies came to live the double lives. Their bedrock is more solid than the affairs are.
....Just before I came down to check on my thread, I touched his shoulder. He jumped and then pulled his blanket over his shoulder and tucked it right in. I waited a couple of minutes and then I came down. I will touch him again while I am in bed with him and I will cuddle as close as I can. He is the one who chose to keep sleeping in the bed after all
Hehe...rofl
yur doin great lol reminds me of an old Bill Cosby album about his brother Russell and him in bed as kids. "Your Pajamas are touching my side of the bed" and one of them starts yelling "Stop touching meee!"
Waywards sure DO embellish/lie to their other people.
Mine would tell his that he took our youngest to a movie to impress her with his gentleness as a father and would leave out the fact that I went with them! LOL. And so on and so on.
Mine (on chat that I captured with a keylogger) would tell OW he had to 'go put ds9 to bed.' Gag. He has put ds to bed maybe 4 times in 9 years and certainly NOT that night. He had to go because he knew I was suspicious. What a joke.
I kept the keylogger on several weeks before I busted him out...another time he decided to make a garden for me (something I'd asked for for a few years) and told OW on chat that he was doing it but failed to mention that it was FOR me. I opened my FB wide open and posted pics and said, 'Look at what my sweet husband made for me!'
Good morning sweetie!!...Good job on the FB exposure. You are doing wonderful....
I LOVE that you have made a game of the touching.... It's little things like this that help keep your sanity during this....speaking of sanity, what have you done for yourself lately???....A new sweater perhaps??, maybe a pedi???...Remember what Pep said, take care of your Taker from time to time to keep it at bay when the going gets tough....It's hard to keep her still!!!!
Are you eating healthy??..(or at all....) Getting enough sleep???...(do we really ever???) Exercising at all??....(a kickboxing class will do WONDERS for your Taker....you can imagine OW or WH while punching the crap outta that bag...as long as your can refrain from hurting yourself???) Have you taken up a new hobby??...(besides the "touching" game)
This is all very important to YOUR well being.
You are doing an amazing job....I am so very proud of you....
not2fun
ps...Don't waste too much time worrying about her being pretty or looking 10 yrs younger...On the inside, she is an empty, hollow shell of a real human being.....Ya know, I personally think Naomi Campbell is gorgeous, but she is a real turd of a person......not somebody I would truly want to have as a friend.
As for why he is waiting until February, it was my idea at first. He told me he was thinking about leaving me on September 20th. I told him that he could leave November 1st. He told me that was too soon. Then I said that if he didn't leave then, then he wouldn't be able to leave until February so as to not ruin Xmas for the kids or our youngest son's bday who is in January.
This is interesting. Does your WH really want to leave you? Maybe in his twisted wayward mind, he's hoping there will be another reason in Feb. why he can't leave.
I don't think he really wants to leave you.
Oh, he doesn't want anything to get in the way of the high he's getting from his A...hense the pulling away from you. But, he's hestitant about leaving you.
Ok so I came home from work ready to make dinner. WH had already made dinner and said "You and the boys can eat. I'm not hungry." I said "oh no? why aren't you hungry?" He said "I've been eating all day long" Then I noticed that he had also done laundry and baked brownies. He asked me if it was busy at work and I said "Yes" and he said "oh cuz I was gonna go look at stuff" I responded with "Oh looking for christmas presents?". He NEVER buys anything for anyone for xmas, bdays etc. That's always me.
Then he started getting ready to go out. Just before he left I walked up to him held his arm and said "I cannot accept a M where you have a gf. Thanx for making dinner for us." and then I gave his arm a squeeze and walked away. I believe he is either intending to go see her or buy her a christmas gift. He followed me and said "does that mean that if I come home tonight after you are asleep I will be locked out of the room?" I simply said "I will not talk to you when you are angry" He said "I am NOT angry. I just want a yes or no." I said "You are breaking my heart." Then he said "So I guess that means that you ARE gonna lock me out." I said "I already invited you back into my room." He said "Oh I like how it's YOUR room," (oops I know I shoulda said OUR room, I goofed) "I guess I am sleeping in the truck then." I simply responded with "you are breaking my heart, thanks again for dinner." I didn't want to engage with him because I was already close to crying.
he just left. I hope I handled myself ok because I don't want to ruin all of the hard work I have done so far. It was a little funny right before he started getting ready to go out. I had written him a note this morning and left it on his wallet. I thought he would have found it before then but apparently not. He looked at it and then walked in to the living room with it trying to figure out what to do with it. Then he walked behind me, in to the kitchen and threw it away. Well, at least he read it first hehehehehe
you did very well honey. You made your point, exceedingly well, especially since you'll be heading into Plan B soon. It is GOOD that he knows your pain, as long as it is delivered in a non-LBing fashion (which was something I was SOOOOOO not good at doing....). You did great....
Now, don't lock him out...... in fact, I think its might be a little warm tonight...better wear something "light", that is, unless you prefer the buff
You were amazing! He IS afraid of upsetting you. He wants both of you. So, you are doing exactly what you need to do - showing him how amazing it is at home, and also showing him that you have boundaries. Great work! He will definitely remember all you're doing. And what YOU have to offer compared to her...well, I wouldn't place too many bets on her.
Thanx. I was having a bit of a down day. I was feeling a little anxious at work and when I got home and saw all that he did I was wondering WHY? Then he said he was going out. Light Bulb on. Then I did notice during the time when he was questioning me about locking him out (which of course I never intended on doing again) I noticed that this time he didn't threaten me with going to sleep in someone else's bed. He did that last time.
I also noticed that he is trying to be extra nice to the kids and that is driving me NUTTY. Don't get me wrong, I WANT him to be good to our kids but him leaving is the worst thing he could do to them and that's what he is intending to do.
A couple of my friends said that maybe he is trying to give them good memories of him before he is gone. I think it is because he is feeling GUILTY and he is trying to make up for it.
Now with only 6 days left till Plan B, I wonder a little. What if he DOESN'T go? I am planning on putting his things on the front porch and putting the Plan B letter on top. Then I send the kids to my sister's and......well that's where I am stuck. Should I be around? Some of my friends think I should be gone too but I will just sit and wonder if he is gone yet.
He should be home by 6 but since it is my birthday and he is trying to avoid me, I think he will actually come home late. I intend to send him a text at 630 if he isn't home yet saying "You need to come home, it's important" After that, I don't know what to say or do. Any suggestions?
I was feeling a little anxious at work and when I got home and saw all that he did I was wondering WHY?
I hope you praised him for it. Admired him.
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A couple of my friends said that maybe he is trying to give them good memories of him before he is gone. I think it is because he is feeling GUILTY and he is trying to make up for it.
Guilt is part of it for sure. But, I also think he is actually giving to YOU, Scotland. This might be the only way he can give back to you for the way you've been Plan Aing him, where he feels as though he isn't "cheating" on OW.
I did tell him thanx for doing the laundry and I mentioned him making the brownies.
Marsh-BTW thanx a bunch, I had never thought of it that way and I actually teared up a bit. It does seem a little crazy to me that he would worry about cheating on OW. That is just NUTTY but I understand it. He is in love with her and he does have some values even if they did get a bit screwy in our M.
I think I may send him a text message tonight too just to put a wrench in to their alone time. Maybe something a little flirty about being in bed with him tonight and how I can't wait. Wow Plan A can be fun when you make it in to games. I almost look at it as sweet revenge with a twist.
You see? This is what I mean. He's NOT thinking like a man who's at all ready to leave you.
Why wouldn't he think of it as YOUR room? If he's planning on moving out in Feb..
It's funny you wrote this Marsh....It made me think of some VERY WISE words Believer used to tell me, "He's very attached to you"....and MY WH had already MOVED out when I started PLAN A.....
Heed these observations Scot.....they are the words for those who have been around this stuff
Oh, and as far as what to do on Plan B day, I'm gonna defer to Pep and the others on this. I never did a Plan B because the A did end when that time came, so I don't have as much experience in how that day goes....but I'll be praying for you all the same.....
Not2fun- thanx for all of the wisdom and support so far you have been awesome I am looking forward to what the vets have to say about my Plan B day. I would hope that I wouldn't have to ask him to leave but I really couldn't live through another month and a half of this.
I know in my heart that he does have doubts about leaving but I feel like if I didn't ask him to go that we would be in a holding pattern for a long time and I would give up on us because my Love bank would be empty.
I know at first he said things to me like " A lot can happen between now and February" to which my response was (keep in mind PRE Plan A) "Yea you could get hit by a meteor".
Sometimes I feel like maybe I shouldn't ask him to leave but then I think about it again and I know that it is the right thing to do. I am just afraid that it will be done then. That is the hardest part but I do know that it won't be done BECAUSE I asked him to leave but because he didn't want to be with me.
The hardest part in all of this is the feelings sometimes that what if OW CAN meet all of his En's and he IS happier with her. Well I guess I will let it play out and see where the universe takes me
speaking of sanity, what have you done for yourself lately??
This is an important part of Plan A .... looking after YOU. Plan A is emotionally draining and it can be easy to crash and burn. Your adrenaline is keeping you going right now, not to mention the anticipation of Plan B, and let's throw in the craziness of Christmas chaos.
I agree with Marshmallow, I don't think that he really wants to leave. He'd be gone by now, no excuses, just plain gone. As for loving OW, he is more likely infatuated with her attention and the needs that she is meeting right now, Admiration being the #1. This is the one that you should concentrate on and be sure to meet, as well as the others that you've identified as best as possible.
Along with everything else that you are doing, remind him for example ..... how well he has provided for your family, how great he looks in those old jeans, how you love watching him shovel the snow, how you love his smell when he gets out of the shower, etc....
I would hope that I wouldn't have to ask him to leave but I really couldn't live through another month and a half of this.
I can't say I blame you. You have been through this for 2 yrs. now. That is a LONG time. I did Plan A for 3 1/2 months, BUT my WH had moved out. It made it a little more bearable that he wasn't around all the time for me to experience his poopheadness....I have much ADMIRATION for those who do Plan A while living with the wayward.
Originally Posted by scot
I know in my heart that he does have doubts about leaving but I feel like if I didn't ask him to go that we would be in a holding pattern for a long time and I would give up on us because my Love bank would be empty.
This is so very true and very wise of you to acknowledge this. If most WS's had their way they would fence-sit indefinately.....
Originally Posted by scot
I am just afraid that it will be done then.
This is EVERY BS's fear on here that has ever done a Plan B. Very normal.....
Originally Posted by scot
The hardest part in all of this is the feelings sometimes that what if OW CAN meet all of his En's and he IS happier with her. Well I guess I will let it play out and see where the universe takes me
Don't let those "what if's" get to you. And REMEMBER, this Affair is based on dishonesty, lies, and deception. No relationship can ever last being born from this nature. And if it did last, then you will be well rid of him. YOU deserve better than a relationship based on these "virtues".
And remember too, you have his history, intimate knowledge of his likes/dislikes/desires/dreams/fears.....
((((Scotland)))))
Stay strong honey.....you have a heart of gold....
I'm not experienced in Plan B either, mine wasn't MB style, very spur of the moment, more like Plan Rage, get the $#@! out.
I can tell you that I finally felt like I had some peace, since I didn't have to carry on feeling like a two-faced person. (he was only gone 6 days so I didn't have the hard part of plan B where I missed him after a lengthy time away)
According to my WH (at the time), he needed to be gone from me and his family to reflect on what he had done and decide what he wanted in his future.
I put a message on his phone the day he left. You know the one on the screen that is the main frame that you always see. Does that make any sense?
It said 'Find the path home' (had to do all one word since it wouldn't allow too many characters.)
Scotland i have been reading your whole thread. I'd like to say i wish i had your strenght and courage when i tried to save my marriage. If i had well maybe things would have been different. You are doing everything that your WH wants you to do. It is driving him insane on the inside. One day he will tell you that. He can't possibly admit it now cause that would be like telling you his lying about his "relationship" with the OW. BLAHHH... you can do this and you seem to be doing it the right way. I have high hopes for you.
And not2fun is a good source of encouragement. You two remind me of each other in the way things are kind of unfolding for you.
Just stay strong for you and your kids and know that no matter what happens you three will be ok!!!
I called the wayward on the phone in the afternoon and told him I had reached my limit of being able to deal with the pain of him being involved with OW and he needed to leave that evening.
I did see him that evening and we discussed some things as he was going (kids, how much I loved him and hoped being gone would help him feel better about being married to me, etc).
He stayed at a friends for a while til he had a place to move into of his own.
About five days after he left.....I sent him a plan B letter (and OW got a copy too).
He tried to test my boundaries a few times by hijacking me but I was kind and firm each time telling him he needed to not contact me as mentioned in my letter to him. I told him each time "I love you".
I am still riding the plan B train.
You then will feel very grief stricken cause you will miss him, you will get stronger and start to live a real, true to yourself life and time will tell what will happen. We never really had control over anyone but ourselves anyway.
As for why he is waiting until February, it was my idea at first. He told me he was thinking about leaving me on September 20th.
He said he was only THINKING ABOUT leaving you.
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I told him that he could leave November 1st. He told me that was too soon.
Nov. 1st was too SOON for him.
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Then I said that if he didn't leave then, then he wouldn't be able to leave until February so as to not ruin Xmas for the kids or our youngest son's bday who is in January.
And he was OK w/ this b/c in his mind, "ALOT CAN HAPPEN BETWEEN NOV. AND FEB." ..like finding another reason why he needs to stay.
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One thing that she said to me really does hurt though and I just need to get it off my chest. My H and I had always said that if anything was to happen that he would not take the kids from me. While I was talking to her (and letting her fight HIS battles) she said that my WH would have total access to the kids and that she wouldn't stand in their way (in response to my saying that he would only be spending about 13 hours a week with them).
I responded by saying, "Yea but only until a lawyer got involved" and then she said "Oh well I can just take them from you then. I have the room and I don't mind." I was so upset that I just said out loud "Oh you want to take the kids away from me, their house, family school and friends" Her response was "Oh no there's a house that's for rent down the street from you and we will just move there"
I didn't react to that but after I hung up I asked my WH if he was going to try to take the kids and he said no. I know that there is no reason to take them away from me. I just was so upset and I let her get to me. OH I am not happy about OW right now.
This tells you that OW and WH did NOT PLAN how they could be together.
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He said "Oh I like how it's YOUR room,"
This coupled w/ his "alot can happen between now and then..." statement tells you he STILL doesn't have a plan.
Now with only 6 days left till Plan B, I wonder a little. What if he DOESN'T go? I am planning on putting his things on the front porch and putting the Plan B letter on top. Then I send the kids to my sister's and......well that's where I am stuck. Should I be around? Some of my friends think I should be gone too but I will just sit and wonder if he is gone yet.
I think you ought to have a couple of your friends over when he arrives home and sees his things on the porch.
He might be less likely to refuse to leave if your friends are there.
Plus, it is always a good idea to have witnesses....just in case.
True, BUT, it will also have a far bigger effect on him when she goes to Plan B.
Oh, yes! I totally agree.
He's going to be devastated.
I just want Scot to be prepared if he refuses to leave. Which I am 98% sure he will.
There is no way my XWH would have agreed to leave without the pressure of a court hearing that was about to take place THAT day...he delayed signing the separation agreement until 12:00 noon with a 1:00 p.m. court time set.
I am always amazed on these boards how BSs just ask WSs to leave and---they leave!!!
I am AMAZED...simply AMAZED and in total awe of the stellar plan A you have been doing.
Yes, you are going to have to go to Plan B because your WH is not ending his affair. But remember, Plan B is to PROTECT YOU. It's not about him at all. You are removing yourself from the drama.
If you execute Plan B as well as you execute Plan A, then no matter what happens, I think you're going to be fine. If your WH gets his head out of his a$$ and comes home, then you will become a MB success story. If not, you will still be a success story because while you are in Plan B, you will learn how to livew your life on your own, respect yourself and prove to yourself that you can be the rock upon which your kids can lean.
ETA: And as Cat said, if he doesn't come home, but runs all the way TO the OW----then you are still better off. You can't be in a marriage with three people!
I simply responded with "you are breaking my heart, thanks again for dinner." I didn't want to engage with him because I was already close to crying.
WONDERFUL !!!
Even the "close to crying" part.
Waynerds convince themselves (with the help of OW) that "everyone will be happy once these changes are made". Waynerds also convince themselves (again, with the help of OW) that the wife really does not care all that much for WH.
Can you SEE the power and the strength and the love infused within the messages you are now sending WH? He's so much more conflicted than he was a week ago.
GREAT verbal and non-verbal communication.
Too bad about the "my room" comment, but everyone has a slip. Everyone.
There is NO comeback to the "You are breaking my heart.". Real consequences of Plan A ~~~> I am breaking my wife's heart and she is being good to me.
You have made tremendous progress since the start of this thread.
You have hundreds of supporters. Lurkers too.
AND, you are inspiring bravery for dozens of lurkers too afraid to post.
You don't know it yet, but you are becoming a heroine ... and paying it forward.
Scot, are you going to change the locks the day you go into Plan B?
If you are (and you really SHOULD but I am not sure about the laws where you are) then there really shouldn't be much of a concern...his stuff will be on the front porch with the PBL and you will either not be there, or you will be locked safely inside with your family/friends/support team.
I went into Plan B by handing my FWH my letter (he was already staying at his parent's house). Later that night I packed up all of his stuff and left it on the driveway with my IM letting him know it was ready for him. I changed the locks that night as well and he was very shocked when he tried to get into the house and couldn't.
I didn't talk to him again until Plan B ended about 6 weeks later...I stayed very, very dark. But my PB was a little different in that we had been in a false recovery...when I found out that the A had never ended, I did MASSIVE NUCLEAR exposure and went straight into Plan B. He was not in contact with the OW while in Plan B because my exposure did what it was supposed to do and killed the A.
It also was the beginning of clearing the fog once I was not allowing the cake eating anymore.
The part I think is applicable to your situation is the part dealing with ROMANTIC affairs. Here it is.
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ROMANTIC INFIDELITY
Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate--someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own--is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your fife, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.
Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.
People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born--any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.
Both genders seem equally capable of falling into the temporary insanity of romantic affairs, though women are more likely to reframe anything they do as having been done for love. Women in love are far more aware of what they are doing and what the dangers might be. Men in love can be extraordinarily incautious and willing to give up everything. Men in love lose their heads--at least for a while.
It's important that YOU recognize this now (and WH will recognize it later, after his cranial/rectal extraction is complete):
"Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages."
Interesting quote from the movie "Why did I get married?"
In most cases, especially in relationships, you will only get 80% of what you NEED and you will hardly get the other 20% that you WANT in your relationship. There is always another person (man or women) that you will meet and that will offer you the other 20% which is lacking in your relationship that you WANT
And believe me, 20% looks really good when you are not getting it at all in your current relationship.
But the problem is that you will always be tempted to leave that good 80% that you know you have, thinking that you will get something better with the other 20% that you WANT
But as reality has proven, in most cases, you will always end up with having the 20% that you WANT and loosing the 80% that you really NEED and that you already had.
Be careful in deciding between what you WANT and NEED in your life.
Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have. "Wow, this girl in my office is a real looker. But it's not her Wynona Rider features that got me. I'm crazy about her because she's also understanding, intelligent, tender - so many things that my spouse is not"
Somewhere along the way, you'll find a woman or a man who will be more charming or sensitive. More alluring. More thoughtful. Richer. Have greater sex appeal. And you will find a woman or man who will need you and pursue you and go loco over you more than your spouse ever did.
Because no wife or husband is perfect. Because a spouse will only have 80% of what you're looking for. So adultery takes place when a husband or wife looks for the missing 20%. Let's say your wife is melancholic by nature.
You may find yourself drawn to the pretty clerk who has a cherry laugh no matter what she says: "I broke my arm yesterday, Hahahaha . . .."
Or because your wife is a homebody in slippers and pajamas, smelling of garlic and fish oil, you may fall for a fresh-smelling young sales representative that visits your office in a sharp black blazer, high heels, and a red pencil-cut skirt Or because your husband is the quiet type, your heart may skip a beat when you meet an old college flame who has the makings of a talk show host.
But wait! That's only 20% of what you don't have.
Don't throw away the 80% that you already have!
That's not all. Add to your spouse's 80% the 100% that represents all the years that you have been with each other. The storms you have weathered together. The unforgettable moments of sadness and joy as a couple. The many adjustments you have made to love the other. The wealth of memories that you've accumulated as lovers.
Adultery happens when you start looking for what you don't have.
But faithfulness happens when you start thanking God for what you already have.
But I'm not just talking about marriage.
I'm talking about life!
About your jobs. About your friends. About your children. About your lifestyles.
Are you like the economy airline passenger that perennially peeks through the door of the first class cabin, obsessed with what he's missing? "They have got more leg room! Oh my, their food is served in porcelain! Wow, their seats recline at an 80% angle and they've got personal videos!"
I guarantee you'll be miserable for the entire trip! Don't live your life like that. Forget about what the world says is first class. Do you know that there are many first class passengers who are miserable in first class -- because they are not riding in a private Lear Jet?
The main message???
If you start appreciating what you have right now, wherever you are, you are first class!
Oh my...so much of the quotes Pep put up are perfect. I started to quote them but there is just too much.
See, here is the thing, Scot...my H had an affair but never intended to leave...though he never let the OW know this, that would have killed the "fantasy" she had going and he LIKED the attention he was getting from her. He never intended to be stuck with her for life and that is why he never left and never even considered it....just as your H has never done.
Your H has not left you or your home yet...deep down he sees and knows all of her flaws and doesn't want to be stuck with that for life (I know this to be true from experience).
He is still getting that 80% from you...when he tries to get that from the OW alone, SHE WILL FAIL. And that is what needs to happen. He NEEDS to fall...that is a "side effect" of Plan B.
See, here is the thing, Scot...my H had an affair but never intended to leave...though he never let the OW know this, that would have killed the "fantasy" she had going and he LIKED the attention he was getting from her. He never intended to be stuck with her for life and that is why he never left and never even considered it....just as your H has never done.
WOW HEAVY reading first thing in the morning hehehehehe. Thanx to EVERYONE. You guys are GREAT. I told another one of my friends yesterday as I was leaving work. She was in total shock and said that she thought that I was pretty darn strong. She joked and said "He still has all of his "parts" right?" I had to laugh and say "Yes".
When I got home from work yesterday, he was starting dinner again and he had finished some laundry and got the kids to take their showers. I thanked him for all of the help.
He was trying to avoid looking at me and I made sure I kept looking at him with a smile on my face and a glint in my eyes.
He was play fighting with the boys on the living room floor while I was reading HNHN and while he was playing I made sure to put the book down, face up of course so he could read the title, and I laughed and made comments of encouragement to the boys. I made sure to tell them that WH is ticklish under his arms. They jumped right on it and he laughed. They were having so much fun that when it ended, our youngest cried that he wanted daddy to still play.
I consoled him and then a couple of minutes later, I played with them too.
After we were done playing (no crying this time because I explained better that I was OLD and tired hehehehehe), the kids were sitting on the couch with me and WH was playing on the computer. I made sure I praised our youngest in ways that compared him to WH in looks and the way he makes people laugh. I know that WH has always said that he knew he made me happy and got great joy because he could make me laugh.
After the kids went to sleep, I put on a new nighty I had bought that he has never seen before. I showed off for a couple of minutes and then I went to bed. I said good night to him and made sure to rub my hand down his arm and squeeze. He pulled away a bit and grunted. I just smiled and went to bed.
When he came to bed he was in his cocoon again. At 4am, I woke up and decided I would touch him in his sleep. Well he wasn't sleeping. When I laid my hand on him he elbowed it away. I just waited a couple of minutes and then I did it again. He rolled away. I then laid there and he feel asleep. He started having a nightmare and I laid my hand on his back and he calmed down. As soon as I took it away he started making muffled screaming noises so I just kept my hand there until 5 minutes later when he woke up and made an annoyed noise.
This morning when he got up I made sure I said "Have a GREAT day at work" He just grunted and left the room.
I am going to make sure to send him an email today.
Pepper- I am so glad for all of your help. You have added many useful things that make me know that no matter which way this goes, I am doing the best things.
I guess when I am a little down sometimes it is because I want so badly for him to WANT to stay with me and get rid of her but I am afraid that that won't happen. I need someone else to look at my sitch from the outside and let me know what it really is.
OW has come stuff on her facebook account called ABOUT ME. She answered some questions and it was interesting to me. She said that she doesn't want to get married because she couldn't stand being around someone that long.
She also answered the what is she addicted to as "Sex, internet, shopping ......and some crazy guy ;)" I wanted to hit the screen.
Then it asked if she was crushing on someone and she answered "I wouldn't call it a crush"
GAG.
I am putting no more thought in to her. She is SO not worth it.
Bravo yet again! Without the benefit of hindsight, you won't be able to see just how well you're doing, and how well he's responding to you. Trust me, we can see it just fine.
I'm getting a little about all the cooking and household stuff, though. Something odd is going on in his poor scrambled brain. It won't make a bit of difference to the outcome, it's just strange. Good or bad, he's up to something.
Lady Scot, you are doing SOOO good in your Plan A. Nightmares huh? Hm, could be his subconcious dealing with him. Yay for you being the calming touch.
You do realize that when you go into Plan B, it will mean NO contact at all (including peeking at HER/ITS FaceBook page? Plan B is about removing yourself from the DRAMA. You don't need it and it will be refreshing to not have to deal with his OR her stuff.
I particularly like that he is lying to the OW. This means when they begin their 'life' together he won't be able to hold up his end and there will be some MAJOR LB's on her part.
I hated the way he is becoming a good father and then starts an argument when he wants to go out...as though he wants you to kick him out that night so he has an excuse to stay out all night.
I liked reading's description of how she moved into Plan B. I gave my WH til the weekend to work things out of where he was to live...my Plan B wasn't quite a shock.
I would stop the exposure now...give yourself a few GOOD days of Plan A. Are you sure you are fulfilling HIS most important EN's? His top three?
I'm getting a little about all the cooking and household stuff, though. Something odd is going on in his poor scrambled brain. It won't make a bit of difference to the outcome, it's just strange. Good or bad, he's up to something.
Just enjoy it and don't ask too many questions.
Actually, this makes perfect sense to me. Just like we give gifts to people that WE like, we do things for people that WE like, thinking they will appreciate it as much as we do. So...he's scrambling to get back his status quo. He thinks if he pacifies her by ramping up the EN meeting on what he she has as an EN, she'll calm down and he can go back to cake eating. Primitive thinking, but very predictable.
His actions also have a lot to do with guilt...it's especially hard to not feel guilty when your W is being so d*mn good to you and you are being a complete *ss.
It's also a way for him to stay in "good graces" with her, without actually making a commitment to do so.
Also, Scot...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop looking at her FB page (or anything else about her). As tempting as it is, it is not helpful for you. It just keeps you all in turmoil, with a lot of gagging and anger in there too.
I know this from experience, so PLEASE stop this. I cannot tell you how much better you will feel when you stop. Your mind willo free up of so much baggage.
Also, Scot...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop looking at her FB page (or anything else about her). As tempting as it is, it is not helpful for you. It just keeps you all in turmoil, with a lot of gagging and anger in there too.
I know this from experience, so PLEASE stop this. I cannot tell you how much better you will feel when you stop. Your mind willo free up of so much baggage.
please listen to MarriedForever. I too know from experience and this will drain your $LB and make you anger and could cause you to love bust when you don't mean to. It can cause for a lot to go on inside of you and you are doing so well. Please keep up the awesome job you are doing, you should be very proud of yourself.
ITA. Recovery is going great for my FWH and me...until I slide and look at all the phone records, notes, emails, etc. that I have from his A. Next thing you know, "LBs, anyone?"
You do realize that when you go into Plan B, it will mean NO contact at all (including peeking at HER/ITS FaceBook page? Plan B is about removing yourself from the DRAMA. You don't need it and it will be refreshing to not have to deal with his OR her stuff.
Also, Scot...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop looking at her FB page (or anything else about her). As tempting as it is, it is not helpful for you. It just keeps you all in turmoil, with a lot of gagging and anger in there too.
I know this from experience, so PLEASE stop this. I cannot tell you how much better you will feel when you stop. Your mind willo free up of so much baggage.
please listen to MarriedForever. I too know from experience and this will drain your $LB and make you anger and could cause you to love bust when you don't mean to. It can cause for a lot to go on inside of you and you are doing so well. Please keep up the awesome job you are doing, you should be very proud of yourself.
Add me to the list of "me toos!" Fortunately, I got my hand slapped (virtually, that is) early on -- so I went and blocked WW's FB from mine, and shut down any and all "spyware" I had in place.
Now is the time for me to focus on me! That's a large part of Plan B. Yesterday and today I'm defrosting a freezer. I'm eating foods my WW didn't favor (made myself a very tasty pasta-and-gravy dinner last night). I went out with neighbors, attended a Christmas party, did some Christmas shopping, ran in a couple of 10Ks, and you know what? I'm feeling pretty good about myself.
He started having a nightmare and I laid my hand on his back and he calmed down. As soon as I took it away he started making muffled screaming noises so I just kept my hand there until 5 minutes later when he woke up and made an annoyed noise.
FYI - no one posting to you on your thread hates your WH. I don't think anyone has made that point yet. We hate his adultery, not him.
If it ever comes to pass that you enter an actual recovery, we will be as helpful to H as we are to you, if he'll allow it and post on MB.
So, even though we say uncomplimentary things about WH (as is) we would not be urging you to follow MB plans if we did not think there is a good guy buried under all that adultery chemistry and fog babble.
Also, we will help you in Plan B. A new set of rules for you and an emotional minefield.
Thanx. I don't think that anyone on here hates my WH I understand that what we all hate on here in A's. I am a person who sees the good in many sitchs and people and believe it or not, I believe she may have some good in her somewhere. I used to hope that that good part would overrule her at some point and give up this madness but I now know there isn't enough of it in there.
I do know that Plan B means not looking at anything so I have actually deleted all of the saved things that I had on her. I am just a person who tends to remember what I read rather easily and I actually haven't been back to her FB account since Friday when I sent the messages. I am done with exposure, I just really wanted to tell her family so I could KNOW that I did everything that I could. I am not giving her any more of my time in my thoughts.
I have been doing things for myself. I need to figure out more things that I enjoy to do but I am figuring it out.
I am going to keep it up as best as I can. I am a little worried about Friday and if he won't leave. The only place that he has to go is her house so we will see if he is willing to go.
When he talked to me at first about his leaving he said that when he left he wanted to make sure it was for good because he doesn't want to go in and out.
We have witnessed 3 other marriages in our family (my SIL, Sister and my parents) break up in the past 4 years. My SIL is still with the man she had an affair with(all be it not happy) and my Mom is still with the man she left my dad for. That has been a major part of our lives and I think that is probably why I am acting the way that I have been because I saw what happens when you act with you taker instead.
FYI - no one posting to you on your thread hates your WH. I don't think anyone has made that point yet. We hate his adultery, not him.
If it ever comes to pass that you enter an actual recovery, we will be as helpful to H as we are to you, if he'll allow it and post on MB.
So, even though we say uncomplimentary things about WH (as is) we would not be urging you to follow MB plans if we did not think there is a good guy buried under all that adultery chemistry and fog babble.
Also, we will help you in Plan B. A new set of rules for you and an emotional minefield.
Maybe this giving side is something the rest of you have seen, but I sure haven't.
AJ gave almost nothing during his A, and when he did it was usually buying something for the kids that they wouldn't normally have gotten, kinda like Disneyland Dad only on a very, very low scale.
It might just be me, but I haven't really seen a personal investment like that, normally. Money, yes, maybe a little time to go do something, but meeting some actual emotional needs through caring deeds? Wow. You're all probably right though, about the combo guilt and wanting to get back to the status quo, aka Cake.
Well, you guys have given me lots to think about in that way.
One thing that kinda PO'd me was that I noticed that the boxer shorts that he wore to OW house on Saturday night were actually the silk ones bought for ME, that he would wear, as my Xmas present last year. I took them and hid them but I dunno if that follows under Plan A. I wil check when I get home form the Xmas concert my kids are having tonight.
Well, you guys have given me lots to think about in that way.
One thing that kinda PO'd me was that I noticed that the boxer shorts that he wore to OW house on Saturday night were actually the silk ones bought for ME, that he would wear, as my Xmas present last year. I took them and hid them but I dunno if that follows under Plan A. I wil check when I get home form the Xmas concert my kids are having tonight.
2 days after D-day I was catching up on the washing when I noticed a particular pair of Flicks underwear in the dirty pile. I wont describe them but they are definatly ones you wear to 'look good'.
I cut a hole in the pouch thing in the front with scissors, washed and dried them and put them in his drawer, folded so the hole didnt show. He took them with him on one of his clothes collecting visits
I worked with a really great teacher who was a mentor to me in many ways. She gave me some advice that might fit here. She told me that she never made a big deal about "inappropriate" clothing that her DD had purchased. She would say something once, and then she gave me this piece of advice: "I made sure the item got ruined in the laundry. Of course, I always made sure that one of DH's or DS's or mine got ruined also..."
Although my DD was younger at that time, I took her advice to heart. It worked.
Well, I definitely will accidentally lose them or something. I was just so angry that THOSE would be the ones he would wear for that the day he did all of those things around the house. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Top it all off, the kids had their Christmas concert tonight and he was a NO SHOW. He plays in a pool league and I guess he mut have thought that was more important tonight. Well, I am not going to say anything when he gets home. DS 6 was a little upset cuz Daddy never misses anything and I just responded with "Mommy will always be here." It breaks my heart.
I am almost done reading HNHN and it is really worth the read. I had read SAA twice first because I wanted to make sure I knew what to do before "B"-Day (that's what I am calling the day I am going to Plan B). I am glad I am reading HNHN too.
Well, a few more days and I will change my life for the better. It is going to be hard and I will be leaning on people really hard. Hopefully, he will abide by my wishes.
Wearing the boxers would be like wearing big jammies and getting your own essence into them...yk?
I recommend getting a copy of Lovebusters too.
I have all three books near my bed with dog ears on my favorite pages to refer to when I am a bit 'weak' and fearful of B. They really calm me down AND keep me focused on why I am doing it.
I also cut and paste and print thread replies that resonate with me and make me feel strong to read (usually in the middle of the night when the anxiety strikes).
So....beware posters YOUR reply may be printed near my bedside at this moment!
I haven't completely thought about it yet. As it was I was thinking about getting through Christmas since now my mom told me that she is having Christmas on Christmas Eve instead so I guess I will have to do something just me and the kids.
New beginnings and all that jazz.
I have a lot to focus on this coming few weeks. A lot of work to do and a lot of stuff to get through. At least I will have somewhere to turn to for the right kind of support. Thanx.
Since you have the whole day open, why not look into volunteering at an old folks' home or something? Buy a boatload of candy canes and go visit all the kids in a children's hospital and hand them out? Serve food at a homeless shelter?
Can't imagine a better memory to create. (and one that will keep you so busy you won't notice the gaping hole so much)
That's a GREAT idea cat, I will see what I can come up with.
I realized this morning that the touches and looks and even when I open the shower door to look at him is bang on. These are things he used to do to me all of the time and the funny thing is I used to pull away from HIM. I don't know why I didn't see it before.
Tonight is going to be the last night I actually spend around him because I have to work the next 2 nights until midnight and he will be asleep before I get home. I am going to do my best not to get too sad about that when he is around and I will make sure to put on my best game face.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Well, last night he came home from work and he was so COLD to me. He played with the kids but ignored me completely. Then around 745pm I couldn't stand it anymore. I was going to break down so I got ready and I kissed the kids and then I said "I have somewhere I have to be." Then I walked out the door. I drove to a park and sat in my car, blared music and cried and screamed.
After an hour, I came home. I got ready to go to bed and then I said good night to him while I rubbed my hand down his arm. He not only pulled away but he made a disgusted noise like he was getting touched by the most vial thing he has ever seen. I just laughed and went upstairs and cried.
I made sure when he came to bed I told him good night again.
This morning when he got up, I told him to have a good day at work. He ignored me.
I am going to write him the last email I will send him, today, and it will be remembering when the kids were born.
I am only able to get through these last couple of days because I know that they are the last couple of days with him being able to hurt me.
I am making mental lists of all of his stuff that I am going to pack up for him. I am also keeping myself busy with the kids but I know that soon my world is going to crash.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I know one day, either way, I am going to feel better. I guess I just have to keep repeating my favourite quote "That which does not totally destroy me, makes me even stronger."
I've been following your sitch and wish you the best. I've been on these boards a long time (under another handle) and can empathize with you.
I know exactly where you are and how you're feeling. Everything you're going through is normal. I also wrote long emails to my ww (an ex now). Those emails are honestly a waste of time. They don't care. They don't care about your pain or tears. Your emotions are a reflection of the guilt they are stuffing away, but they deal with it through acting disgusted and treating you like a leper.
Plan B will be your refuge of safety and your break to get your bearings back. Trust me when I tell you that as time passes you will see your H more and more for who he truly is. You will also grow stronger in your feelings and realize that you will be ok no matter what. Your sadness will turn to anger and then eventual acceptance. You may even welcome his absence from your life.
It happened to me. The situation with my kids isn't ideal, but I get quality time with them and they adapt when they're young. Keep in mind that they don't want to see what's coming and they love both of you no matter what the other one has done.
But take care of yourself. There's a time where you need to focus on you and Plan B is it.
Expect nothing from him in Plan A. He is incapable of seeing anything or feeling your pain.
Let his guilt hit him later. When it does you may not want him back.
In my opinion, the (brief) emails are fine, especially the ones recalling family history events. Not a waste of time.
Agree. I'd throw some family photos in whatever you pack up, as well. Remind him of the precious time he really had as a family and what he's throwing away.
In my opinion, the (brief) emails are fine, especially the ones recalling family history events. Not a waste of time.
(((((Scotland))))),
ahhhh......I remember those moments, and truly they just are moments. It's good to acknowledge it, cry it out, and then keep moving. And remember, we are all here for you......
your doing great.... you'll look back one day and realize how strong you really and truely are. You are an inspiration for everyone!
It's ok to be sad and cry, but know this the pain does get better once you are removed from the drama. Your doing awesome!! I will be saying some prayers for you and everyone else on here.
He is projecting his own disgust at himself onto you.
He knows he is at fault so he is blaming you.
Every bad thing you get from him is because you've been making a difference with the things you've been doing. You're shining a light so dazzling he can't stand it because it reveals the full ugliness of what he's doing.
There's a reason the wicked won't be able to look Christ in the face when He comes again, while His friends will eagerly hold out their arms to meet Him.
Quote
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? ~ Revelation 6
It's the very same principle that you see working in your life. If your WH was walking in the light, he would welcome the radiance of your love.
Instead, he runs shrieking from it, wishing the mountains would crush him and hide him from that searching light that exposes every dark and disgusting thought and action.
If you weren't blazing fabulously, he would be much more comfortable. (Hint: comfortable is bad.) Keep it up - only a few more days. You can do it!
He is projecting his own disgust at himself onto you.
He knows he is at fault so he is blaming you. Every bad thing you get from him is because you've been making a difference with the things you've been doing. You're shining a light so dazzling he can't stand it because it reveals the full ugliness of what he's doing.
There's a reason the wicked won't be able to look Christ in the face when He comes again, while His friends will eagerly hold out their arms to meet Him.
This is exactly what I was thinking...he is furious at HIMSELF because you are being so incredible to him and he is being such a jerk...however, the crack addiction (OW) is so strong right now and his clarity is so foggy from the drug that he can't seem to find the strength to get out.
The colder he is to you, the more your Plan A is WORKING. Trust me on this...I know from experience.
Your Plan A is truly inspirational...you are almost there!
<I can't remember...do you have VERY CLEAR CONDITIONS in your PBL on what he needs to in order to come home/start recovery? I highly, highly recommend that one of your conditions be MCing with counselor of your choice (and you will choose Steve Harley)...he can help guide you into a safe recovery.>
Another thing...my DH has thanked me numerous times for my STRENGTH during the A...he is very proud of me and incredibly thankful for what I did to save our M. Your H WILL remember this later.
Last week we hosted a BIG Christmas party for all of his work colleagues at our home...it was a ton of work for me. When it was over and everyone had left, he hugged me in the kitchen for 15 minutes and repeated over and over how lucky he is, how proud he is to have me for his wife, how thankful he is for all I did to save our family...the changes I made during Plan A have stuck, and I know that I am loved.
If your H ever pulls his head out of that dark place, he will remember all that you have done too and be incredibly thankful. Remember this in your last few days of Plan A and avoid those LBers like the plague. It WILL make a difference.
Your openess, loving compassion and displays of affection are never wasted on your H even though his reaction was cranky and difficult.
Really, MB is NOT for weaklings at all. It builds on your strengths in a methodical way.
The last couple days in plan A really help to transition to B and sounds like the timing of B is going to be perfect.
Remember the first week in B will be strange to you (dealing with a WH pushing limits of it, not having him around like you are used to)
Week two you may hit a wall of grief. You should talk to your physician about ways to handle that (medication, over the counter like sam-E or prescription) and prepare.
You will need to keep the clearest head possible. You will need to know it is coming and to enjoy each day before that hits (being honest here)
Then, you will find yourself getting stronger and stronger and reflective and self-nurturing. You will find ways to spend with your children that are joyful and new and you will wonder why you never thought of those activities before!
We are all there for you and each other.
The MB path is a positive one. Not an easy path but a positive one.
MF- I do have a stipulation in there to say that he has to agree to a marriage counselor of MY choosing.
I really did think that it IS working when he made that noise but it HURT so bad. I am glad I was able to laugh in front of him though. There is one thing I kept telling myself too. He has never actually TOLD me to stop touching him. He would just grunt and now make a disgusted noise.
I am definitely going to put some pics in with his stuff so he can remember what he had. Unfortunately he doesn't really like his pic taken so we don't have too many of him. Mostly the kids and we actually only have ONE pic of all of us. That is sad to me but that is who he is.
Thanx for the support everyone. The email I am writing him today is just memories of when our kids were born. He was so happy that he cried and I know he was a proud papa. I want that one to be the last one he remembers from me.
That's a GREAT idea cat, I will see what I can come up with.
I realized this morning that the touches and looks and even when I open the shower door to look at him is bang on. These are things he used to do to me all of the time and the funny thing is I used to pull away from HIM. I don't know why I didn't see it before.
Tonight is going to be the last night I actually spend around him because I have to work the next 2 nights until midnight and he will be asleep before I get home. I am going to do my best not to get too sad about that when he is around and I will make sure to put on my best game face.
Here's hoping to a GLORIOUS day.
Scotland, if your H isn't totally moved by your grace in this line of fire, then he's a heartless b@st@rd who doesn't deserve you. I'm wondering how quickly his addiction will wear off when he steps into the cold world without your presence and has to deal with the fact that the rosy fantasy of his A with the OW cannot be maintained.
...but be prepared to deal with the reality that he may never come back. Separation INCREASES the chance reconciliation will never occur. But it offers you the best chance to preserve your love for your spouse while the affair runs its course, which won't happen if he remains at home and daily subjects you to the abuse of an affair. You would grow to hate him absolutely for the pain he inflicts upon you, and when he wanted to reconcile, you'd have no interest.
Good luck in your Plan B. Sounds like you are working with a typical self-justified, rationalizing, uncommunicative wayward here. The aliens that have taken over the bodies of our spouses all follow very, very similar scripts. Yours is following the "pushes your buttons but is very conflicted and refuses to admit it" script...
Separation INCREASES the chance reconciliation will never occur.
And yet without a separation, the chance of recovery is virtually nil. Put that way, it sounds like the odds have increased.
Because of the risk Plan B is a last resort, but it's a last resort that almost always has to be used with WH's. So few A's end with Plan A alone, and when the WS is a WH it's pretty much a given that the cake supply has to be cut off before the RC extraction occurs.
I do believe that if I am NOT going to ask him to leave and move in to Plan B, he would just be lapping up all of his cake indefinitely. WH's plan for after he was to leave me was that he would live with OW, he would just take his clothes and leave the rest of his stuff here. Then when I went to work that he would come HERE and watch the kids. He also was saying things to me about coming back to fix things around the house that needs to be fixed.
It was like he was going to have the same situation he has now only his place of residence would change. He is going to be totally shocked by this one for sure.
Last night as I was leaving for work, i made sure I touched the side of his face and looked right in his eyes. He pulled away and I said (although I may have been wrong to say, but I kept a smile on my face and kept it light) "you can't change the way I feel, have a good night." Then I walked out the door. I heard the door open and I turned around expecting him to say something else. What he said was "Don't forget to pick up bread" and I said "I was shopping after work anyways good night."
Well my Plan B plan is that I have changed my shifts at work so I work days and weekends instead of nights and weekends. My sister and friends will watch the kids during the day time shifts and WH will pick them up for my weekend shifts. I have that set in the children part that I will be giving him when I ask him to leave.
As to where he will take the kids when he has them is really not my concern. A little part of my hopes he will take them to her house because our DS6 can be a real handful. My WH has always had difficulty controlling his anger around him and he loses his patience often. There is no threat to his personal safety but only to WH saving face in front of his new love. DS6 is extremely attached to me and even told me that on Sunday while I was at work WH was talking on the phone and DS6 told him to get off of the phone. My WH response was "I am an adult and I can talk to whomever I want."
I know that OW and WH have been ignoring the fact that he has children because when they talk about them they don't use their names. They call them "the big one and the Little one". If that isn't sticking your head in the sand I don't know what is. I think OW would make HUGE withdrawals in WH Love Bank if she didn't get along with the kids. He has always said (before ALIEN took over), that if he was to date again(when I died) that the woman would have to love his kids and that he would always choose the kids over her in a fight.
I am focusing on getting through this last night. It is possibly the last night that I will ever sleep in the same bed as my WH and that makes me sad. We have lived together for 15 years and have only been apart at night for 15 nights (3 of those in the past 6 months when he was with OW).
Before a couple of months ago, I wasn't even able to sleep without him. After he told me he was leaving however, I started to get used to it.
Focusing on the tasks ahead. Removed family picture from the wall and made a copy. I will pack that in his stuff with another copy of the Plan B letter hidden behind it. I will also make him up a small photo album of pictures from our past as a family.
Here's hoping to the fact that he will not fight me about leaving. I know he is going to tell me that he has nowhere to go. What can I say to that one? I want to say "I don't care where you go." but that isn't the truth. I thought I could just say "You are breaking my heart." and leave it at that. I
I will keep you all posted. Here's to a celebration of the end of Plan A (I made it even thought I wanted to give up a few times) and the beginning of Plan B through "Shock and AWE".
I do believe it is the best chance I have at saving my M and I am grateful to everyone for their help and support.
Here's hoping to the fact that he will not fight me about leaving. I know he is going to tell me that he has nowhere to go. What can I say to that one?
"WH, I am setting you free. Where you go is your business. Read the letter. Everything is in the letter. Good-bye."
I recommend you lawyer up. You should establish some sort of temporary custody. He otherwise has the right to take the kids, move elsewhere, and file for custody there.
I would also put a restraining order that the parmour is not to be permitted around the children.
Finally, check the law in your state, but you can sue the OW as well for Alienation of Affection.
I think with the right lawyer you could sue her for anything you want, IMHO.
I don�t recommend this one. The adulterer will reply something to the effect, �See, I always knew you never loved me.� Takes a thick skin to get past this retort. A skin I learned I did not have.
But the others are good. Especially, just refer him to the letter.
Plan B gets harder and harder for a while, and then its gets easy.
And then you wonder why you put up with the loser for as long as you did.
I also strongly recommend you talk to legal counsel. Adulterers are liars and cheaters -through and through. He and OW will take everything they can from you.
Have you posted or emailed to someone here your Plan B Letter for comment?
I recommend you lawyer up. You should establish some sort of temporary custody. He otherwise has the right to take the kids, move elsewhere, and file for custody there.
I would also put a restraining order that the parmour is not to be permitted around the children.
Finally, check the law in your state, but you can sue the OW as well for Alienation of Affection.
I think with the right lawyer you could sue her for anything you want, IMHO.
Just some food for thought.
Scotty lives in Canada. A whole 'nuther universe ...
I have soooo many people sending me prayers and positive thoughts. It feels good to know there are so many people pulling for me.
It has been a very rough day today. I started having doubts if this is really what I should do but I know it is because I am just afraid. Yesterday, I still thought it was a good idea and if I think about all of the times WH has done something that could have made me break Plan A I know that the timing is right.
I can't keep living like this with him cake-eating. OW may be ok with it but I am better than that and I deserve better. I know there is a possibility that he will never come back and that is the biggest part that scares me.
This may be the last night I ever sleep in the same bed as WH and that makes me sad, but I know that I will get through.
I was at work tonight and it was all hitting me pretty good. I got myself out of it by repeating over and over again "Either way it will work out for the best". I firmly believe that. I will be better for this life experience whether I am alone or with WH.
Happy Birthday to me. I am giving myself the best present I could ever get. I am giving myself the best possible chance to save my marriage and have my self respect.
Thank you all and I will keep everyone up to date with how it goes.
I can't keep living like this with him cake-eating. OW may be ok with it but I am better than that and I deserve better. I know there is a possibility that he will never come back and that is the biggest part that scares me.
This may be the last night I ever sleep in the same bed as WH and that makes me sad, but I know that I will get through.
I was at work tonight and it was all hitting me pretty good. I got myself out of it by repeating over and over again "Either way it will work out for the best". I firmly believe that. I will be better for this life experience whether I am alone or with WH.
Happy Birthday to me. I am giving myself the best present I could ever get. I am giving myself the best possible chance to save my marriage and have my self respect. ..
I've not posted because the way your WH is behaving is EXACTLY the way mine did - right down to the hugging the side of the bed every night.
You've handled it far better than I ever did and are a MUCH stronger and braver person for it.
From one December baby to another, I hope this birthday brings you peace and happiness for the next year and the one after that, and the one after that and to infinity and beyond (gotta love Buzz).
Happy Birthday, Scotland. I've read your entire thread and I have to say I'm amazed at your class, self control, and damn near everything about you. Stay strong, I'll be pulling for you to have the very best outcome FOR YOU.
Happy Birthday, Scotland. I've read your entire thread and I have to say I'm amazed at your class, self control, and damn near everything about you. Stay strong, I'll be pulling for you to have the very best outcome FOR YOU.
DITTO. Happy birthday and enjoy your kids this weekend!!!! I know i have said it to you before and you may not feel like it but you turely do have courage that most wish they had. You are a pillar of strenght and probably don't realize it. Stay strong as you have been.
Thank you everyone. You don't know how much I started crying just reading all of these words of encouragement.
I am done with the packing and putting all of his things out and you know what? The further along I got the madder I got at him and the better I felt that I was doing this. That first hurdle jumped, many more taller ones to go.
The wait for him to come home now begins. I think he may pull an ultimate [censored] move and not come home when he is supposed to. I have a plan to text him by 630 if he is not home. I am just going to say that he needs to come home because it is important. Then when he calls me, I am just not going to answer the phones.
The boys will be with my sister and mom where they will be taken care of and I can focus on what I need to do. My dad will be here with me to help me through it. I also have many people in the universe sending out prayers and positive thoughts. I feel stronger than I ever have in my entire life.
I do remember a couple of months ago, when my WH told me he was leaving me. He was crying and he said "I don't know if you are strong enough." My answer was "Oh don't worry I AM." I was always sure that I was.
Thank you everyone. I am going to keep myslef occupied today and I will write to you all after I come home from my birthday party.
I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend you call a locksmith out RIGHT NOW and do this. You don't want him barging in to the house.
DITTO
Even if WH gets it changed back later ... it sends a clear message. Even if it is not quite legal, do it anyway. You can always defend your choice ... "I was worried about break ins and who might have a copy of the key."
Yeah, a critical part of my (intended, but never executed) Plan B was to change the garage door opener code and disable all remotes but the one in my car, change the locks on the doors (they need to be replaced anyway, they are 18 years old and falling apart), get the lock on the barn fixed, etc.
It's tough prying a spouse away from their house when they really, truly want to cake-eat and have both their spouse and the lover. Luckily I never had to go that far, but I'm certain it would have been a struggle.
Even if WH gets it changed back later ... it sends a clear message. Even if it is not quite legal, do it anyway. You can always defend your choice ... "I was worried about break ins and who might have a copy of the key."[/font][/b]
i did this and played stupid about it after my husband left as he was trying to come back to get stuff in the begining. Cops just told me i had to give him a key when i told them i didn't he was supposed to have a key as i hadn't talked to him in two months. It was no big deal at the time i thought i was going to get into worse trouble than that.
Been thinking of you today as well. Let me just say
They always say on birthday's your a year older and wiser, but I think for you we should add on STRONGER.....because that my dear is what you have become.....
I love the idea of dad being there. This is sooooo very good. You are getting great advice as usual.....keep up the good work and know as always, we are here for you.....
oh, and I hadn't seen anywhere, BUT you do have your IM lined up, right??....who was it again??...this is an important step.....
thinking of you here too. You're doing an ace job and really showing those boys what is and isn't acceptable.
Scotty! You ARE the woman! So, I'm looking at your bio and am I right: you got "the speech" on your anniversary, and WH is moving out on your birthday? Oof. Do something special today, okay? There are no calories in birthday cake. Proven scientific fact.
Don't think we haven't noticed what time it is now. Prayers are going up for you on this, your best birthday ever. It may not feel like it, but this is your finest hour. Now just step back and let God work.
Don't think we haven't noticed what time it is now. Prayers are going up for you on this, your best birthday ever. It may not feel like it, but this is your finest hour. Now just step back and let God work.
DITTO that......I pray all is well with you....STAY STRONG!!!!...CHIN UP AND CHEST OUT....
(ok, maybe not too much on that last one....unless of course, you want his last memory to be of your "assets"..... )
Well. WH came home 15 minutes early and I was on the phone with my dad and re-reading the responses I wanted to use and what I wanted to say to him.
I stopped him in the hallway, and he had noticed the stuff on the porch. I don't remember everything that was said(I really wish I had the tape recorder ready) or even how it started. It seems like a blur.
He did give me a bit of a hard time about where was he supposed to go? How long had I planned it? Did I want him to fight for the kids? Where were the kids? Why couldn't I wait until February? What were we doing about finances? Did I clean out the bank account?
I told him that here was a letter and it explained everything. He said that he wasn't going to read any letter. I could just tell him what needed to be said and he would remember it. I told him that there was a lot of things to take in and it is written down so he can read it later.
We talked for a half an hour. I repeated many many times "I love you and you are breaking my heart" as well as "I can not allow myself to be hurt by adultery anymore."
I know I said other things but I made sure never to bring OW up and never to blame him. I cried a lot but I never talked loudly at all.
When he said he didn't know where he was going to go, I simply said "I know you have some where to go." He said "yea with notice" I just said that he was going to leave in february but I couldn't bare being hurt any longer and I couldn't last.
When he asked how long I had been planning it I simply said "Not long. I just packed your things today."
When he talked about where he was supposed to take the kids when he had them I said, "I am sure you will take them somewhere safe."
When he said that I was taking his boys away from him I responded with "I have made arrangements with our friends that if you want to come and see them you can just call them. They will call me and I will let them know if it is ok that day."
When he talked about the finances and visitation I explained that they were written in the letter. I gave him an overview of what I would expect when finances were split. I then informed him that if we were to go to court that he would actually have to pay me more and possibly see the kids less. He agreed I was being liberal with visitation and decent with the finances.
He wanted to come in to the house to make sure I had gotten everything. I welcomed him to check and he found nothing else I had forgotten. He asked me repeatedly where the kids were and I said "They are at my birthday party. I didn't think it would be good for them to be here for this."
He cried a lot and maintained eye contact with me the whole time. Then after the half an hour went by he walked outside and started to put the things in the truck. I said "Can I have the keys to the house please?" He gave them to me and walked out the door. He saw my dad parked outside and said "your ride is here" I said "yea it is my dad" He said "or your boyfriend." I responded with my pocket response to that one "I believe in a marriage with only 2 people." I walked away and said "I love you" and got in my dad's car and we went to my bday party.
Sorry to leave you all hanging for so long but I had to stay away as long as I could. I miss him terribly and this is hard to admit but a small part of me hoped he would have chosen to stay with me.
This is pretty bad tonight but I am going to get through it.
The difference is ... he has CAUSED the pain. (he has a guilty conscience) You are making attempts to stop the pain. (you do not have a guilty conscience)
Pepper- Well he did take it with him so that is a start. I emailed a copy to OW too.
I told him he could call the kids whenever he wanted and when I was leaving my sister's I noticed that someone had called my cell phone at 654pm. That was 35minutes after I left. I am putting call display on to make sure who it is before I ever answer the phone.
Well, my parents are interesting. My dad never even got out of the car. My mom left my dad in July 2008 for another man. My parents still talk to each other everyday and the joke is that my parents are having an affair with each other. My dad put a deadline of december 10th for my mom to come home. Well, it passed and today they were both at my party and my Dad made a couple of comments to her about her coming home.
He just kept telling me that life sucks for everyone and I would get through it. I know that he was trying to help but it wasn't helping much.
It just dawned on me that this is the first bday I spent w/o my H since I was 16. Triggers are everywhere.
All these things you are today, Scotland. You were these things yesterday. And you will be tomorrow. Your new-found ability to express these traits has solidified them in you as part of your true character.
Oh honey, I am sooooo very proud of you. I know this hurts, but you truly are doing the best thing for YOU, your children and your marriage. DON'T EVER EVER doubt this.
You handled everything beautifully. You truly did.
And someday (I don't know when), HE will look back at this and remember how loving and graceful YOU were. His respect for you will grow because of this.
I'm bumping up another thread for you (I can't seem to do this link stuff very well....I'm no techie...). It's called "My gift to you". Its a thread by a wonderful VET named Mimi. She did a great Plan B, though she contented that it was because of her Plan A that her H finally returned to the marriage. They are recovered and have been going on 7 yrs. now......Anyway, you will see how hard but yet rewarding Plan B can be. She took a HUGE leap of faith in this process and even sold her and her H's dream house....Its a good read....
Anyway, I just wanted to drop by and see how you did. It'll probably be a rough morning for you....I suggest a Pedi......
My mom left my dad in July 2008 for another man. My parents still talk to each other everyday and the joke is that my parents are having an affair with each other. My dad put a deadline of december 10th for my mom to come home. Well, it passed and today they were both at my party and my Dad made a couple of comments to her about her coming home.
Scotty,
One more thing....this is an interesting story. When you feel like breaking Plan B (and you will), please look at what you wrote here.
You mom is the very definition of "cake-eater".....and your Dad ENABLES it.
This is what happens when one doesn't take a stand, nor stand by convictions.....
I am sorry to hear about your parents......One would think that watching her daughter go through this, that Mom would see the pain and devastation that affairs bring....
(((((Scotty and Dad)))))))
not2fun
ps...I can relate to the whole family drama....My sis had just ended her A when H started his....My mom and dad seperated (not A related, but my mom is a "lifer" wayward....) 1 week before my dday, and my MIL had left my FIL 2 months prior to Dday....very messy stuff....
I was thinking about you all night last night...you did GREAT!! Truly awesome!! It could not have gone any better!
You will go up and down over the next few days...be prepared for the roller coaster of emotions. Here is my exposure/Plan B thread...you will see how I crashed really hard right after going into Plan B. It might help to know that others have been where you are right now and come out on the other side: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1832782&page=1
[P.S. What is your mom saying about all of this, knowing she did the exact same thing to your dad? Is she recognizing that the pain you are in right now is the same thing she is doing to your dad???]
I stand in awe of you, Scotland. Truly. Wow - OW is probably not used to your H being needy LOL. Because he can't look like anything BUT a needy loser right now. And the fantasy begins to fizzle...
Thank you all again. I know it was a true shock for him. As far as having to give OW notice. He also said when he was talking about somewhere to take the kids when he had them, I had said that I know he had somewhere to live. He corrected me by saying he had somewhere to stay not a place of his own. I was a little confused, did he really expect me not to see that he is moving IN with OW? Or maybe he was just not telling himself the truth yet. Well regardless, I am sure reality is setting in a bit.
He had asked me why I packed all of his tools because he was going to leave them here so he could fix things when they were broken. I responded with "My Dad and BIL will help me fix things I can't" and he just looked at me so I said "This is the reality of the situation."
As far as if my Mom sees it, I don't think so. I think she is really foggy still and I KNOW she is cake-eating. Actually my parents' sitch is part of the reason I knew I had to do what I did last night because I couldn't live the way they have been. It kills my Dad everyday and I know I couldn't do that.
I feel slightly guilty though, because I haven't really put pressure on her until now. She has always known that i don't like her THING(that's my term for POSOM) but I had tolerated it. When she wanted OM to come to my kids' xmas concert instead of my own Dad I lost it on her. I told her that I would never like him and that she shouldn't be mad at my WH for what he is doing because she did the same things. It was pretty ugly but I don't know how much of it sunk in.
I have tried to tell my Dad not to talk to her anymore and I know he has tried a couple of times but he gets sad with the withdrawals and he does get some needs met by talking to her.
It is a messed up sitch that I definitely didn't want to get myself in. That's why I am so glad to have found MB and all of you.
My Dad is 50 (he was 16 when I was born). He definitely could use some MB support but he won't come on. He doesn't use computers and he has a hard time talking about his feelings. I have explained the concepts and other things about this site but to my surprise most people don't understand MB concepts. I, myself, find them quite understandable and very straightforward.
I hope that maybe he will see how I am dealing with my sitch and maybe he will want to follow MB concepts then.
Stopped in to see how last night went ..... you did so well. Hold your head up high, very high for not caving in to adultery.
Originally Posted by Scotland
He had asked me why I packed all of his tools because he was going to leave them here so he could fix things when they were broken. I responded with "My Dad and BIL will help me fix things I can't" and he just looked at me so I said "This is the reality of the situation.".
I've read similar things like this from BW's, WH's thinking they can still come and go, have their cake but yet ease their guilt by stoppin' around to 'fix things'. Crazy talk .... and thinking.
I'm off to a Christmas gathering but did want you to know that I'm thinking of you, we all are!
He had asked me why I packed all of his tools because he was going to leave them here so he could fix things when they were broken. I responded with "My Dad and BIL will help me fix things I can't" and he just looked at me so I said "This is the reality of the situation.".
I've read similar things like this from BW's, WH's thinking they can still come and go, have their cake but yet ease their guilt by stoppin' around to 'fix things'. Crazy talk .... and thinking.
brain fart ....... I suppose they do this too cuz they still want to be part of their family. IDK, I didn't have to deal with that.
brain fart ....... I suppose they do this too cuz they still want to be part of their family. IDK, I didn't have to deal with that.
Oh no, you were right...WH's DO want to come back to cake eat, (get their BS's fixes), as well as to try to ease their guilt, and get their family fixes.
I know that he wanted to cake eat that's why I made sure I had responses to things that he would say. He asked me how I would get to work if I didn't have the truck and I said "Family, friends, bus and taxi. Don't worry I will still be working." Then he asked what I would do for my night shifts and I said, "Oh, I changed my shifts to days so I don't have to worry about that." It was like he wanted to keep sticking himself in.
I think he was really surprised that I had a solid plan and not just flying by the seat of my pants. I don't know why that would surprise him though I ALWAYS plan. Things don't always go according to plan(it's called LIFE), but as long as I have a plan to follow I can do ANYTHING.
Hey scotland, now will be the time that you might start to doubt yourself. I pray you stay the course.
This guy would be crazy to not try and get his crap together and work on his marriage. What an awesome warrior of a wife he has.
I would not be as good of a judge as these veteran posters to tell you when or how to get him to help himself. But he needs to do the work now. When the other affair ends he still will need to do a lot of work even though he will want to come right home. I know he will want to come home.
Make him jump through the hoops that he needs to to get you back. You are worth it.
I think he was really surprised that I had a solid plan and not just flying by the seat of my pants. I don't know why that would surprise him though I ALWAYS plan.
He was projecting. Since HE was flying by the seat of HIS pants in his fantasy world, he thought YOU were too.
What a tailspin he must be in.
Quote
but as long as I have a plan to follow I can do ANYTHING.
I had a hard time the night before Plan B. I cried a lot last night but it was mostly about the fact that he actually left. I know I was scared that he wouldn't go, but at the same time I had hoped he would finally wake up and choose me. He is a harder nut to crack I guess. ;D
He hasn't tried to call yet today and that is surprising me because I thought he would at least want to talk to the kids.
I WILL NOT be talking to him myself and I don't think he would actually try to talk to me.
My SIL wrote to me today and asked what was going on. She actually said some funny things to me about this stich. Funny only because she had an A four years ago and got pregnant and then left her husband for OM. She said she hoped that WH would not bring OW to xmas at MIL and I respectfully told her that either way I didn't want to know about it. I told her that I had to save myself from any more pain and stay out of his drama. I also said that this was the best way I could preserve the love I do have left in case there is a possibility of R of my M.
Honestly, I do worry about him though. I know it is going to be a while before I stop thinking about him and when triggers aren't there anymore. He was the first thing I had thought about for the past 18 years. I love the man he truly is. I hope he finds himself again and then finds his way back to us. Here's to keeping HOPE alive.
Scotland, do you have a DETAILED plan of what conditions need to be met in order for him to come home?
And most importantly, does your IM know what these conditions are?
WH may try to talk to you, and he may try to ignore/reneg the conditions in your PBL. If he does this, refer him to your IM. Tell him all info must go through your IM.
Then your IM can ask him if he is ready to meet your PB conditions. The first one many of us had met was the NC letter. When my H decided he wanted to come home, he sent a copy of the NC letter to our IM and she forwarded it to me. Then I knew he was serious and we started talking about reconciliation.
I am a bit worried that because of the holiday your WH may try this sooner rather than later and I don't want to see you in a False Recovery. You have to stand VERY FIRM in your conditions. FRs suck, you don't want that.
Well, another high hurdle is being jumped right now. My DS 6 asked if he could call WH and tell him he missed him? I said "Of course you can hunny." He called and there was no answer. He started to cry that he was really sad. Now, a half an hour later WH called him back. It is seriously killing me to have them talk to him and I m sitting right here. It really hurts.
I am trying to hold it together.
This is going to get hard to get used to.
OMG DS 6 asked to talk to OW. I whispered, "No" and he hung up the phone. I asked him to come into the washroom with me since WH was calling back. DS9 answered the phone and talked to him. When I talked to DS6 about why he did that he said, "You told me to tell her bad things." I said "I told you that you can tell her what you feel even if it was bad."
The call ended with crying on my DS9 end of the phone. I hugged him and he said that he was crying because Daddy was crying. He said that Daddy told him he would come over and make Hot chocolate with him. I told him that he can most certainly make HC with Daddy but it was not going to happen in this house. I said that hey are not supposed to let him in. They asked me why and I answered with "Because Daddy doesn't live here anymore."
It is a hard thing to deal with and I have to explain it calmly and easily for them to understand.
I asked DS 6 and 9 to please not talk to OW on the phone when I am around because it would hurt me too much. DS9 had told WH that DS6 got in trouble for what he said but since I have NC I didn't say anything in the background. I know I shouldn't have said anything when DS6 asked to speak to OW but I couldn't help it. I don't even know that WH would have let him talk to her but the thought just killed me.
Harder and harder everyday until it gets easier.....I know that everyone has said it but when you are in it, it is hard to believe.
Lex- actually the whole time we spent together he was saying things like "We need to look at getting a new couch soon." "Maybe after christmas we can get a new fridge." "This tire will have to do until we can afford to get new ones." I knew not to fall for all of this WS alien babble because I heard my Mom and SIL tell their husbands things like this while they were planning how they were going to leave them.
MF- I have been reading your thread today, that's actually what I am doing right now.
I haven't sent my IM the info yet but I did place a copy behind the family picture(the one I sent with him). This is what it says (simple and to the point)
Before I will consider direct communication with you 1. You must WANT to work on our marriage 2. You must end the affair with OW 3. You will write a No Contact letter to OW and have it okayed by me and then I will send it. 4. You will leave WORKPLACE (unless she has left first) 5. You will agree to follow a marriage counseling plan of my choosing. 6. You will take a sexually transmitted disease test and I will see the results.
of course the marriage counseling plan is MB but I didn't want him to learn about this place UNTIL/IF he was going to come back.
I wouldn't instruct your children to talk to OW at all.
They should be encouraged to tell their DADDY how they feel (even if its bad) -- but I wouldn't put that kind of trust in OW, that she would know what to do with hurting little kids.
of course the marriage counseling plan is MB but I didn't want him to learn about this place UNTIL/IF he was going to come back.
Very smart thinking, young lady! Again...I am so proud of you!!!
[P.S. your conditions are great...please get a copy to your IM so that he/she will know what they are and can decide if he is serious about reconciliation per your conditions.]
Well, I believe that at some point WH is going to introduce them. He (as far as his plan was) is supposed to live with OW and when he has the kids he will have nowhere to take them. I think he wanted to keep them here so his 2 worlds WOULDN'T collide. Well, that isn't possible. I didn't exactly ENCOURAGE them, I just let them know that when they met her they didn't HAVE to be nice. I raised my kids well and I have taught them to respect people. I was just letting them know that with her all bets are off and if they wanted to be mean to her they could. DS9 would NEVER think of it because he would be afraid of getting in trouble. DS6 on the other hand is a totally different person. The joke in the family is that he thinks so far out of the box that he is in someone else's box. I know that as far as family is concerned DS6 will be my best ally.
When I asked him what he was going to say he said "I was going to tell OW that I loved you MAMA." I told him that was nice but if he could please not talk to her while I was anywhere around. I told them that I don't want to hear anything about her unless she is doing something bad to them.
I just popped in to see how you are holding up.....
H and I were out shopping today at Macy's. We were in the Christmas section and they had this sign thingy (some sort of thing you hang on your door or something). Anyway it said on there...
"Life is always more successful when you have a plan B".....
Anyway, I thought of you and MB and had good laugh....
Stay strong girlfriend..... You are an inspiration
Honestly, I do worry about him though. I know it is going to be a while before I stop thinking about him and when triggers aren't there anymore. He was the first thing I had thought about for the past 18 years. I love the man he truly is. I hope he finds himself again and then finds his way back to us. Here's to keeping HOPE alive.
I know what that means scotland. My wife had some pretty unlovable character flaws she would fall into time to time. But I new the dreams she had given up on and that was who she "Really was".
Its hard to stand by and watch as they destroy the person you are in love with. Thats why the plan B of course.. But you know that.
Yes its hard with the little children. They are forced to deal with real tough stuff before thier time. You will be there for them so the most important emotional support is intact.
Again hang tough, The gravity of what is happening is just starting to hit him. He is losing his home and family.
Well, I honestly thought that HE would NOT try to break contact.
HOW WRONG WAS I?
I have told WH that he can call the kids whenever he wants and if the kids are available they will talk. Well, I woke up this morning to 2 messages at 730am. It must be because OW works at 7am so now he is ALONE today.
I let the kids talk to him but when he asked to speak to me I shock my head NO. That made my DS9 cry and i whispered "If you want you can hang up" and he did. Then WH called back and DS6 answered. When WH asked to speak to me again DS6 responded "Mommy will talk to you when you want to be a family with us again." Then WH said something and DS6 said "Sorry for what daddy" Then he said "Mommy, Daddy said Mommy and Daddy just can't get along anymore." Then he went back on the phone and said "Daddy Mommy loves you and we want to be a family again. I love you too Daddy. Where are you and why don't you come home." WH was trying to get the details on when a xmas party we are attending today is so he could come and I told DS9 he couldn't tell him that. See, this is a bad weekend for my IM because they are out of town till tomorrow for xmas. I honestly forgot about that when I made this the weekend to ask him to go.
Then I checked my email and guess what? I have 4. These are what he said
BS,
Please let DS9 read this email.
Please let him read it to DS6.
If he does not want to read it to DS6 please read it to them.
Hello DS9 and DS6,
I am really sorry I am not there right now. I love you so much and I really miss you guys.
Do not think that Daddy not being home is either of your faults. Neither one of you did anything wrong.
I am going to try to call you everyday. I want to hear about school. I want to hear about you guys playing games. I want to hear about everything.
I will have you guys over here for a sleepover after Christmas is over. We can build a fort if you want. Sleep inside it.
I am also going to write you an email every day. DS9 I want you to read it to DS6. When DS6 can read better he can read it to you.
If you want to email Daddy back I am sure if you ask Mommy she will show you. I would love to read an email from you guys.
I would like to be able to see them in their home. I dont mind if you are there....upstairs.....take the truck and go somewhere...I dont mind at all.
Please message me back that I can see them at their home.
Its really funny..you say..."Ive figured out what I need to do now." Based on actions you have not figured out anything.
You have always tried to do things to get a reaction out of me. Ive never wanted to react because it would mostly been in anger. I kept it in and tried to keep it together for many years.
You still pushed.
Now you have dropped to the level of trying to use our kids against me. Still trying to get a reaction. Im still trying not to react and still trying to keep it in.
Why are you using the boys against me? Why are you using them as pawns?
I want to see them. They want to see me. What is wrong with that.
The plan I had figured out would have allowed me to see them 3-4 days a week in the comfort of their own home. I would have been the one put out. Going to bed really late on Wed and Thurs nights. Then having to get up early on Sat and Sun mornings.
That was not good enough for you to try to hurt me. You do realize you are hurting them as well.
Using them to talk for you instead of being an adult and talking for yourself.
I think DS6 said it best, "Why wont you let me see Daddy??"
Hes 6 years old.
I want to see them on Christmas morning when they open presents. So that does mean I want to come into their house.
I know this is probably asking the world from you but can you put my name on some of the presents? Please?
I dont wont to make this a who loves the kids more competition. I want them to know I love them. Im not going to go out and buy a whole new set of presents because WE cannot afford that.
Why wont you let them read THEIR email? It was addressed to them.
I forgot to tell you.
I had to spend some money yesterday. I had to buy a charger for phone. This was 26 dollars. I also bought some groceries.
I hastily said I didnt want any when you offered. Then since you locked me out I didnt have a chance to get some.
Wow, great reading first thing in the morning. Well, I am NOT responding to the messages and the funny thing is I now KNOW he read my Plan B letter. SUCCESS. And Pepper, You were right on telling me to do this just before Christmas. I honestly didn't think it would matter much because he has always said that Christmas is too commercial.
Dear Scotland... I feel for you. How hard this is; I don't have children with WW, so for me it's easier. And if it's easier for me, I can't imagine how painful this must be for you.
I am concerned about one thing, though. If you're in Plan B, why are you reading his emails? I know you said your IM was gone this weekend, but isn't that his problem, not yours?
Not that WW has made any attempt to contact me, but my Plan B letter to her specifically stated how and when she could contact me. Until then, if she were to email, text or call me, I would simply delete any message unread/unheard. That's a tough call, but I have to remain resolute.
As your post indicates, his breaking contact has put you into a tailspin. Who is suffering more right now, him or you?
I know this is probably asking the world from you but can you put my name on some of the presents? Please?
Don't reply to him. Put "Daddy" on the gifts without comment. It's the right thing to do at this time. For the Boys. If plan B lasts into the New Year, he can buy his own presents.
He's not liking Plan B the cesspool lovenest very much. His mood will be ugly. He will not be "there" for OW ... his heart has been left behind, at home, with you and the boys.
Hang in there. WH's about to go nutzo!
First anger and "Now I'm really going to leave you" type threats. Followed by attempts to inspire guilt.
WH has read the letter several times. You know how stupid waynerds are ... the fog is too thick for actual recognition of truth until it smacks them upside the head. WH's been SMACKED good
I honestly didn't think it would matter much because he has always said that Christmas is too commercial.
H is correct. Parts of Christmas are way too commercial. Those commercial parts are all he has left. The really important parts of Christmas .... family time.
Sometimes you have to lose something to discover how important it is .
In case he follows you around and ambushes you....
Emergency pocket responses:
"It's all in the letter." "The way back home is all in the letter." "The requirements are in the letter." "Have you met my requirements?"
... if he persists .... there is always a hand gesture (NO , not THAT one ) ..
Hold your hand out like it is saying "Halt" ... and simply say "No!" ... walking away as fast as you can. If he follows you say "NO" as loudly as you can.
As soon as school reopens, go to the principal and also to the boys' teachers.
Tell them a version of this:
"My H and I are having serious marriage difficulties. We have separated. No one but myself and my H are authorized to pick up the boys from school. Not any unknown female. Please keep a close an eye on the boys. If they are having any difficulties please let me know right away."
I would consider opening a seperate email account for your boys for communication with WH. That way you don't have to see it and yet the line of communucation is still open....
Hang in there...oh, and either block your WH's email account or change yours.....don't read his messages, just delete them....
and whatever you do....DO NOT BUY INTO HIS BULLCHIT about you using those kids...
He will test the boundaries. Waywards don't 'get' that their actions (the affair) has consequences (pain all around for everyone).
As Surviving An Affair says on page 88 (on the Plan B checklist):
- If there is acccidental contact between the wayward spouse and betrayed spouse, the betrayed spouse should avoid angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands.
If he shows up any place you are, be firm but loving as you ask him to respect your boundaries. The boundaries are to protect you from additional suffering from his actions.
Hug those boys and know that we all understand the parental angst of dealing with their fragile spirits. The waywards never, ever 'got' that the kids were going to be affected by their selfish acts.
and whatever you do....DO NOT BUY INTO HIS BULLCHIT about you using those kids...
Absolutely.
He abandoned his boys. Doesn't matter that you asked him to leave. He had a choice. He could have said, NO, let's work on things for the boy's sake.
Instead, he chose to abandon them. And at Christmas no less.
There is no reason he can't take the kids to a McDonalds for hot chocolate and to play on the climbing stuff. He could take them to the mall to sit on Santa's lap. He could rent a hotelroom and take them there to play games w/.
Or....he could end this selfish A, and try to repair his M....his family.
Don't fall for any of his woe is me bull crap.
Like you told him, "This is the reality of the situation."
The epitome of selfishness ... WS infidels want their BS to continue to suffer as a gesture of how much the BS loves/needs/wants the WS. In the foggy WS logic, BS suffering is OK if the results are the WS can have what they want.
The only way this is possible is if the BS loses self respect and surrenders to their own weakness of character.
Our girl Scotland is NOT that girl. Unfortunately, her Dad is weak.
My hope is that her Dad gets stronger after observing how strong and brave his daughter has become!
The epitome of selfishness ... WS infidels want their BS to continue to suffer as a gesture of how much the BS loves/needs/wants the WS. In the foggy WS logic, BS suffering is OK if the results are the WS can have what they want.
The only way this is possible is if the BS loses self respect and surrenders to their own weakness of character.
Our girl Scotland is NOT that girl. Unfortunately, her Dad is weak.
My hope is that her Dad gets stronger after observing how strong and brave his daughter has become!
I am really sorry I am not there right now. I love you so much and I really miss you guys.
Do not think that Daddy not being home is either of your faults. Neither one of you did anything wrong.
I am going to try to call you everyday. I want to hear about school. I want to hear about you guys playing games. I want to hear about everything.
I will have you guys over here for a sleepover after Christmas is over. We can build a fort if you want. Sleep inside it.
I am also going to write you an email every day. DS9 I want you to read it to DS6. When DS6 can read better he can read it to you.
If you want to email Daddy back I am sure if you ask Mommy she will show you. I would love to read an email from you guys.
I LOVE YOU DS9 AND DS6!!!!!
Scotty,
I want to warn you....whatever WH promises those kids, PLEASE take it with a grain of salt.....
Meaning, don't put too much hope into this, and prepare yourself for when he breaks those promises....AND HE WILL!!!!
Right now, he is bargaining....with himself. He is telling himself (and in his foggy, pea-soup mushy little brain he BELIEVES this.....poor sap) that he will BE A GOOD FATHER. That this is BEST for everyone involved including the kids. And right now he is telling himself he will do great things for them, with them and life will be GREAT. And he will tell the kids this, because, , he truly thinks this is true.....
BUT, when the time comes, when he has those kids, "life" will get in the way. "SHE" will get in the way.
And when this happens, your kids will be hurt/sad/angry....and unfortunately you will get the brunt end of this....You should console them, cry with them, and remind them that they need to tell WH all that they are feeling.
My WH did all of this. He promised the kids they would spend more time together. That on the weekends he had them they would have fun, they could swim in the pool at the condo they had rented, they could talk every day, and anytime they called him, he would answer and be there.....He also tried to "convince" OW of this....(I cannot even begin to tell you the silly emails I got a hold of, how him moving out brought him and the kids closer, blah blah blah...its sad and almost comical to think of them NOW, but at the time....ohhhh, lets just say, he was lucky he wasn't anywhere near me when I read those...)
Anyway, he BROKE each and every one of those promises. They never went swimming in the pool, most of the kids calls went unanswered (especially when he was with OW....couldn't have calls from the children breaking up that fantasy...), on the weekends he had them, they were largely ignored while he was on the computer and phone with OW....
Anyway, the is much more I could mention, but I wanted to prepare you for this.....so you can prepare, as much as possible anyway, for this to happen.
WH is very much in the thick of fog and fantasy of the affair......unfortunately, its you and kids that get the brunt of it......
Now, go do something fun with those beautiful boys of yours.....if you got any of this snow (I didn't get enough.... ) go sledding, build a snow family, build a fire and snuggle up to a good book or family movie, pop some popcorn, or make smore's in the fireplace.....do something fun and happy for ALL of you.....
I would like to be able to see them in their home. I dont mind if you are there....upstairs.....take the truck and go somewhere...I dont mind at all.
Scotland, does he have a way to get into your home? If so, I would block it ASAP. A WS will try to get into the house in order to assuage his homesickness. He is trying to get a family FIX by getting in the house, but it is a huge mistake to allow him in. Plan B should mimic what his life is going to like as a divorced person so he should have no access to the house.
Do you have a plan in case he tries to come in your house tomorrow? You did tell him he can't come in, right?
BTW, you are doing a GREAT JOB!! I am so proud of the way you have stood up for your marriage, S!
1. Block his email addy immediately, if you haven't already done this.
2. Give no sign whatsoever that you received any of them, including the one to the boys. (Putting his name on the gifts as Pep suggested doesn't count - that's something you would likely have done anyway, just to be kind.)
3. Set up their own email account for the boys. Let them email their dad and tell him they have it.
4. If he continues to abuse the terms of Plan B through the boys' email account, close it down and let the IM's spam-filter their emails, too.
5. Talk to your boys again (and again as needed), and let them know that while they shouldn't carry messages to you from either WH or OW, but they are ALWAYS welcome to talk to you about their feelings, and things that bother them about the situation.
The beauty of Plan B is taking care of you. You have removed yourself from the abuse of WH and the sickness of what is going on, and now you can TRULY concentrate on YOU.
If you haven't done so, I suggest making an appt. with your Dr. asap. Get a check up. You could probably use one anyway. Make sure your body is functioning the way it needs to and keep it at the optimum of health. Let your Dr. know what you are going through, so that way if you need anything he will be up to speed. This is key to taking care of YOU. The bodily tolls of affairs on the BS can be devastating (I lost my gall-bladder..... ).
Also, I suggest an IC. You may need one for the boys as well. This will a key mental growth period for them. How they learn to deal with negative emotions, anger, and pain will carry them through their lives. If they learn positive ways, they will thank you forever.....
I also suggest journaling. This helped me loads even in Plan A.
Make a list of things you have always wanted to do. DREAM BIG...It can include something as big as a trip to Paris or even the blah stuff as finally getting that basement organized (I transferring a little here....). Whatever you choose. Then start working on that list.....whatever it may be....
I also wanted to suggest looking into a kick-boxing class. This is a WONDERFUL way to workout those anger issue's. And it works up those endorphines, muscles, and bones all of which is nothing but BENEFITAL to you......
And lastly, remember, you have done such a wonderful job in holding everything together during this trying time. And when you look in the mirror, be nothing but PROUD!!!!!
Hey everyone. I just came back form a Christmas Party with my boys. There was food, dancing, santa, presents, magic shows and games. They had fun and we brought my Dad with us(WH ticket had already been bought why should it go to waste?) My Dad had fun (although he spent most of the time looking for someone to take home GAG).
When I got home there were two more messages on the machine. WH said "Thanx a lot for letting me come all the way to my house and see that my kids weren't home." Delete, delete.
My IM called me too. They are home now and SURPRISE SURPRISE WH hasn't even called them ONCE.
I told them that I would get them a copy of my requirements for contact. I also let them know that they are NOT to pass on ANY emotions at all. They are just supposed to filter things to me about dates and times for visiting. They have agreed but I am aware I may have to "remind" them every now and then.
As far as the presents were concerned, I was already telling the boys that the presents they get this year are from both of us because it was both of our money. They understood that already so that part didn't really affect me.
I didn't read them the email he wrote them yet. I wasn't sure if I should. I figured that any information he had to tell them he could do on the phone since I have let them talk to him when they were available and when they wanted to.
WH does not have access to the house. He gave me back our keys. He wasn't going to at first but as soon as he started packing up his stuff I just asked for them again and he gave them to me. I don't always lock the door when I go out for a short time but now I do ALWAYS.
I know why he is doing this today, it is probably because OW works on Sundays so he is there alone. We did not have arrangements for him to see them today and the boys and I already had plans. If he does not contact IM for visitations soon then he won't see them until Saturday.
I made the kids their own email address. I am blocking WH from mine now. Thanx.
Just expect that for a while, he's going to keep trying to break through. Expect it so it doesn't throw you too badly off-kilter, and just figure out a way to block each new way as it occurs.
Also, why not just unplug your answering machine? If you have caller ID you can see who called, and he won't be able to keep leaving messages. (The fact that it just rings and rings and rings when you aren't home and will probably drive him even nutser is just an added bonus you don't want to bother dwelling on, lol.)
not2fun- well I have always been writing a journal. It has always helped me stay sane. I have A LOT of friends I can talk to and that has been great. I don't know what it is but I actually feel BETTER emotionally. I am more at peace.
My IM told me that I sound much better right now and she is happy for that. She understands that I am doing what I think best for me and the boys and she will help in whatever way I need. I told her that saving me from WH emotional outbursts will help a lot. She agreed. We have made arrangements for us to go there and visit after Christmas as they have some presents for the boys (they are like surrogate grandparents).
I started doing some pilates. I also am reading and watching movies to get LOST some times. I cry when I am alone in bed but it isn't as long as it used to be. I woke up these past 2 mornings with a smile on my face because my boys came in to wake me up.
I am focused on the tasks I have to do and Christmas. Don't get me wrong, I do have hard moments but they are better than what I was feeling like when WH was here and carrying on his A right in front of my face. I am even eat better and sleep better (not perfect but 5 hours of sleep and eating twice a day was better than a month ago). I honestly thought I would feel more sad but I guess it is because I am away from the adultery and fear of his actions.
Scotland, for your own sake, do not listen to his voice mails!!! He is violating the no contact clause of Plan B (of course, he doesn't know about Plan B, but you have told him that you will not accept any calls, emails, text messages, etc.). I know you are looking after your boys, but every time you hear his voice you are "resetting the clock" on your Plan B. You need to become invisible to him, and he to you.
I admire your strength and determination. Do this for your own good!
Hang in scotland. The Plan B just b4 the holidays was strategic in his seeing what he was losing. Unfortunatly one of the side effects was the stress on you and your children.
You are doing an outstanding job,
You have shown him that you love him and want a Family again.
You have stated in your letter how he can earn his way back into your life.
You have IMs that know what to tell you if that happens.
Do everything nessesary to keep him out of your mind for now. everyone here has allready given good ideas
Here is my "translation" of what your WH really was saying in his email to you;
I want to be able to cake-eat. I want to be able to get my "family fix" when I want to and, if you don't let me, I will accuse you of using the kids against me.
I want to maintain the fantasy that my A doesn't have ANY impact on our boys so I will blame you for any pain they feel to keep that fantasy intact. I also want to maintain my fantasy that we will be able to get along and the boys will not notice any difference if I continue on this path.
I don't want to accept any blame for any of this so I will be nasty to you until you "own" my choices.
So there....
BTW-I agree with the others that you are doing a fantastic job.
You are doing very well so far. Glad to see you are getting such wonderful advice. ESPECIALLY from Pepperband. (love u pep )
Anyway, was just thinking, could you steer your dad towards MB? Your decision. Don't want him looking for ow to take home when he is in the midst of turmoil in his marriage. It really might do him some good. Especially towards his personal recovery.
Keep up the good work, you are WORTHY!
Be careful with your 6 YO. He somehow got it wrong that he was supposed to be mean to ow. LOL Just make sure he has things straight in that 6 YO brain when you talk to him. You don't want any potential LB's.
And be prepared for your WS to try and break plan B. I think they all try that.
I think DS6 is having a hard time understanding what I meant. I was just trying to tell him that if he ever felt like he had something to say that he normally would get in trouble for he could go ahead and say it.
I do agree that I have to not read any emails and not listen to his messages. He at first was leaving messages for the boys (or at least that's what he was saying) and I wanted to make sure they would hear those.
Johnstwin- I too agree that that's what he was saying in his email. There was a lot of venom in there but I was not taking any of it to heart. I actually was laughing at most of it because all I really took from it was
"I read your letter. I am confused. I feel guilty about leaving the boys. I am hurting. I am MAD at you for not following what I wanted. I can't believe you are standing up to what I was doing. I can't have my cake. WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I want my cake. I am going to accuse you of using the kids so I can threaten with me taking them cuz I know that will hurt you. How is my fantasy world gonna mesh with my real world? I am gonna be a good dad and noone can say different, especially you. If I am not able to be a good Dad it is YOUR fault." Etc.
I understood what was between the lines and you know what I really was just laughing because I honestly believed he WOULDN'T even try to break the NC with me ever. I thought he would be different. I know I keep seeing that he is EXACTLY like every other WS. I am like many BS. This is my best chance and MB concepts DO work so it may work out. If it doesn't I did my BEST to save my M and I will live my life with NO REGRETS.
As far as my Dad, I have tried. I think he is in a Plan D right now. It is a little sick to watch because I see that he still gets needs met by my Mom and that is why he is talking to her still.
WH called just now. It is 930pm and he KNOWS the kids go to bed at 8pm. I didn't listen to the message but I know it is something along the same lines as before I am sure. I don't know what to do if he comes here and rings the doorbell. I know I don't go or let the kids go to the door. Would I then turn off my phone and the house phone and answering machine so he doesn't try to call and sway them to go out.
He hasn't even tried to call the IM and ask them to pass messages on to me. How do I handle this one? I think he is going to try to come see them after work sometime this week. Maybe as early as tomorrow. HELP.
Can I give you a laugh? I was reading one of my friends status updates on FB (he ALWAYS has hilarious ones) and there were two I wanted to tell you guys.
Did you hear about the lady who put Santa behind bars? He called her "HO" not once, not twice but THREE times. LOL
If chicken legs are really legs and chicken breasts are really breasts......I am NOT ordering chicken BALLS anymore HAHAHAHAHA
I know they are silly but I needed a laugh and these sure did the trick so I thought I would pass them along HAHAHAHA
WH called just now. It is 930pm and he KNOWS the kids go to bed at 8pm. I didn't listen to the message but I know it is something along the same lines as before I am sure. I don't know what to do if he comes here and rings the doorbell. I know I don't go or let the kids go to the door. Would I then turn off my phone and the house phone and answering machine so he doesn't try to call and sway them to go out.
You treat him JUST LIKE any other STRANGER coming to your house. Would you open the door for a stranger? NO!
Right now, he is NOT your husband. He is an alien. Until your IM tells you that he is ready to meet your requirements, he is DEAD to you.
Your IM's need to contact him with a little welcome note.
"Hi WH,
This is John and Jane Smith, whom your wife has chosen to be her intermediaries during this time.
Your wife has asked us to let you know that the boys will be available for visitation on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Friday, from 6:00 pm to 7:30 pm. You will be picking them up from Dietert Park, and dropping them off at the same location.
If you are able to make it for any or all of the proposed visitations, please give a minimum of 24 hours notice.
If you have someone to come to the house, either a family member or just a babysitter, there may be times you are willing to ~try~ letting him pick up and drop the kids off at home, with you gone and whoever is there knowing they are not to let him in. That's why it would need to be someone strong enough to say no to him.
As he settles more into the routine of Plan B, you may even be able to have him pick up and drop the kids off from you, just having them ready to walk out the door the instant he pulls up so you don't see him and he doesn't see you. He's likely to show up a little early or a little late to try and catch you, so always be alert on that one.
I just don't think you're going to have any peace while he can get to your answering machine. If you get the boys a shared cell phone, he can leave messages there. Prepaid phones can be fairly inexpensive, and some, like Tracfone, don't have any service contracts. You just buy minutes as you need them, and the service days extend automatically.
Since he hasn't gone off on your IM's yet, or contacted them in any way, that's why they need to announce their presence to him. Prepare them that he may be very angry so they aren't caught off guard, and let them know in advance how much you appreciate their vital services.
If your IM's have any trouble, let us know. There are some really good threads on IM's here that you could print out for them that would answer most of their questions.
Hang in there -- its very common for WS to circumvent your Plan B. Just learn from his attempts, and block those holes.
Block email.
Have IM's begin contact with him.
His statement about wanting to visit the kids in their home is a big sign that he's missing the comforts of home. He's starting to realize what being a part-time-dad is all about. This is going to be a light-bulb moment for him. If you were to divorce him, he would NEVER be allowed into your home.
He's going to start wondering about what being replaced might feel like. What if his Xwife were to get remarried??? He'll start picturing those scenarios, and start realizing how much he DOESN'T want that to happen....
First, I have to say that I admire what you've been able to do.
The only thing I think you should stop immediately, is the coaching of the kids on the phone. This really puts them in the middle and what is happening right now is very traumatic for them.
They're confused and don't understand. I believe you should take a stand and forbid your kids from seeing OW and getting a legal order that she is not to be around your kids. Can you sue her for alienation of affection?
Please get some guidance on how to handle things with your kids. The best thing you can do is to walk away when they are on the phone and let them feel alone with Dad on the phone.
Everything you're doing is spot on. It's the phone thing with the kids that concerned me the most.
But please understand that I know you will have your stumbles regarding the kids and what is righ to do. I had plenty of them on my end and made some big mistakes when I look back.
Just learn from them and move on. The WH will eventually get it and will stop trying to contact you.
One suggestion, if you can do it, is to setup a phone that is just theirs for him to call.
He will be the one to try to constantly use the boys to get info on you or to engage with you.
It's a tough game, but he will eventually get it to stop trying to communicate with you. It was a tough thing for my wxw to learn. It took a professional to intervene and finally get her to understand that short of blood being on the ground and someone about to die that she didn't need to contact me about the kids unless it was an emergency.
What sort of visitation did you write out for him?
Yeah sweety. get crackin ' with those IMs and get a shared cell for the boys.
Is there any form of pressure from an authority you can use to get him to stop contacting you like he is?
You spelled it out in the letter. This is disrespect for your feelings still and why you are doing a plan B. You need to preserve your capacity to love him and he is working to destroy it. You deserve to be respected. YOUR feelings are at stake here. You need to be able to remain sane during the pain he has caused you. For you and Boys sake.
Considering that he is still trying to eat cake and feels entitled to your home and company/interaction I would suggest that you do something to get him to back off.
1st the IMs and if that doesn't work tell him you will issue a restraining order.
In the end you are preserving yourself. remember you? The one he promised to protect?
Well he quit and is not up to the job right now. He doesn't get the fringe benifets.
Another concern--- He left such an awesome women<<No joke, he must be hitting the wall with all his BullS. Probably hard. What is his stat of mind? He still feels entitled? Might be dangerous right now if he melts down. Again can the IMs discern whether this might be the case?
Anyways he needs to talk to someone. Just not you.
But, I would be sure to put a radio, or TV in a room that was the farthest from the door WH would use to try to get you to let him inside. And at the first sight of him, I'd send the boys to that room to watch TV or listen to music...nice and loud.
You could tell him to call the IM to set up when you would like to take the boys somewhere. And then tell him you're walking away from the door now.
Yes, have your IMs email/call him to let them know all info is to go through them. The can reiterate that it is purely because it is just too painful for you to be in contact with him right now as long as he still has a "girlfriend".
Is there any reason why your IMs can't be reached by cell phone when they are not at home to intercept emails from him?
We used a LOT of text messaging with our IM when we were in Plan B. This worked out GREAT because 1.) TMs generally need to be fairly short...it's too much of a pain to write anything very emotional and 2.) it's instantaneous.
Thanx SO. I contacted my IMs this morning and they agreed to send him an email to get the ball rolling. She said she was going to write something simple like "WH this is IM. BS has chosen IM and IM to be her intermediaries at this time. BS has informed us that you can have access to DS9 and DS6 as long as you go through us to make the arrangements. Call us anytime. Take Care."
She agreed with me that he may not feel comfortable right now in calling them for fear that they would be on my side and be preaching to him (they have NO SIDE and they will not preach to him). They understand their role and I hope he will use this opportunity to contact them so he can visit the children. He has to get over the fact that he can't come and see them here.
Wow, what is going on in his brain? Does he really think this is the best option right now? I can't have him visit the children in their home because everyday he leaves it will be like he is leaving them again and again and how can they(or I for that fact) get over it if we feel like it is happening 3-4 times a week?
I am unplugging my answering machine. If he wants to leave them a message, he can write them an email to THEIR email address. I have told them they can talk to him whenever they want on the phone so he shouldn't have to leave them messages. This will stop him from calling me and leaving me messages when he knows they wouldn't be available.
WH cannot believe his life has become this much of a suck-fest. He feels like a loser and a failure. He feels "things" have gotten so bad and so broken there is "no hope".
He is all about his feelings (sad/anger/sad/anger) , and there is actually very little thinking with rational logic going on.
BACK to YOU ... what wonderful lifting things have you got planned for today?
MF- unfortunately my IM do not have a cell phone. They barely go on the internet and their home phone is the only way to contact them. They generally don't go out much so they can get messages and respond within a couple of hours. The thing is WH hasn't even called ONCE so he is trying to circumvent them completely. That makes me MAD. I feel a bit disrespected by this. I mean WH is the one who has caused me so much pain and he seems to be okay with causing me further pain by contact.
I was VERY clear that I couldn't have contact with him because I was being hurt by adultery and I couldn't allow myself to be hurt anymore. He is simply thinking about how to ease HIS pain and who cares who it affects.
The IM's email is sent. The ball is in his court, let's hope he runs with it. If he doesn't that isn't my fault though. I have given him ground rules to this situation and if he doesn't want to follow these 3 simple things (NC with me while he has a girlfriend, contact IM for visitations not previously determined and that he is not to enter the house) then it isn't my fault.
Well, let's see. I think I will make PANCAKES for LUNCH. YEP breakfast for LUNCH. The boys will help me make them. DS6 LOVES to cook.
Then I think video games where they will kick my butt cuz I SUCK.
A walk in the dusting of snow we got overnight. Maybe go to 7-11 for Hot chocolate.
Then tonight we will cuddle up on the couch with blankets and popcorn and watch a movie.
Sounds good.
Oh and last night, we went to the Olympic Torch celebration in our city. It was a blast. I found myself so caught up in the moment that we were laughing and singing and dancing. We had a BLAST and it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the Olympic Flame. Memories I make sure to make with DS x2 that will last a lifetime.
I saw the Olympic torch when it went through Los Angeles ... in Chinatown. Hilarious place to be ... dancing dragons .... clowns on unicycles ... drag queens .... this is LaLa land, after all.
Disrespected and anger are exactly the right emotions for the situation you are in. So by that barameter, I would say you are doing EXCELLENT!
Scotty -- I was a wayward. So I know that your WH thought he could manipulate the situation to his advantage. He thought by giving you that date out in February, that he was giving you time to adjust. He thought that you would be calm, and content with the decision by then. He thought that you would be a friendly co-parent, and that you would be happy with those little scraps. He thought he would basically keep the status quo at home (he just wouldn't sleep there anymore). He thought his "home" would remain intact (all his tools, possessions, etc. in their place) Hardly any disruption at all.
You really shook up his world. He's going to rage and rail at these changes! He never wanted a taste of divorce world, because he thought that would never apply to him.
He really thought he could keep you in place.
In actuality, when February came he probably would have extended it out further -- because you see, he was really quite satisfied with having both a wife and a girlfriend.
He of course had to make it LOOK like he was leaving you -- because OW probably threw some ultimatums his way. He has probably made her all sorts of promises about them being together *forever!* (blechhhh!)
I'm so glad you have a little "handful" in DS6. There is nothing like a big ol dose of kid-initiated reality for OW. I forget -- does she have any children?
There was one poster here a few years back that I thought was REALLY on the right track! She was in a great Plan A. Her husband was involved with a young OW. BW actually suggested to her WH that he should have nearly FULL custody of their 4 daughters for a little while (to help them adjust!)......hehehe. He had thought he was going to have the life of a rock star -- partying with this young little thing. Instead BW got the lifestyle he thought he was gonna have, and he was tied down with an unhappy OW, and 4 raging pre-pubescent girls!
In actuality, when February came he probably would have extended it out further -- because you see, he was really quite satisfied with having both a wife and a girlfriend.
In Feb he would have told OW:
"I can't move out right now. My boys need me to (insert blah blah blah) and the wife is about to have a nervous breakdown because (blah blah blah).
Truth is, WHs usually desire to FREELOAD the OW (their 20%) but don't actually want to be the BUYER in that relationship.
Lexxxy- thanx for that sitch of that other poster. That gave me a good LOL moment. Yes OW has a D11. Her father is not involved at all and that one fateful night when I called OW she tried to hurt me by saying she will get pregnant by WH and that her DD already calls my WH "Daddy". I know she was trying to hurt me but why would I care what OW D11 called my WH?
As far as what my WH wanted I have stated it like this. His sitch last week was Family with GF on the side. He was just gonna flip it and have GF with Family on the side.
I also think you are right that he has been making her promises.
I know that he was trying to make me happy enough. He knows that the kids are my world and that they mean everything to me. I, like many mothers, make supreme sacrifices to make sure they get their needs met. WH knows this all too well and I believe was using this. I am still thinking about them just in a different way.
They need a mom who is strong and emotionally stable. They deserve to feel safe from harm, especially in their own home. They are entitled to a HAPPY Mom to share laughs with and create the basis of family that they will carry in to their own marriages. This is what I am giving them by doing what I am in my current situation.
SEE? I really am feeling better about the whole situation and that scares me a little. I feel like I should have been more upset about WH leaving. I guess my head has taken over for now so I see the positives instead.
I did make a comment though. I said, "I really don't care what your daughter calls him. But are you sure she shouldn't be calling him "UNCLE" since I am sure she has had A LOT of those." Not my finest moment but it felt good at the time.
I don't think she is just stupid, I also think she is really IMMATURE. Well, I hope they have FUN together. LOL
I just read about the Olympic torch festival you attended and am wondering if you are a "neighbor"? I live in the northwest corner of Washington AC (above California)in the Skagit Valley, less than an hour from the border-BC area.
Hi Johnstwin - I doubt Scotland is your neighbour. The Olympic torch is currently making its rounds through Ontario. It was in my city on Saturday, so I think she might live close to me!
As far as what my WH wanted I have stated it like this. His sitch last week was Family with GF on the side. He was just gonna flip it and have GF with Family on the side...
EGG-Zactly
Originally Posted by Scotland
..I said, "I really don't care what your daughter calls him. But are you sure she shouldn't be calling him "UNCLE" since I am sure she has had A LOT of those." Not my finest moment but it felt good at the time.
Rofl
Boy I hope that he has a sense of humor and can laugh at his foolishness if he comes back.
Tabby1- well I guess since it was Saturday that I went to see the torch we just might be neighbours. (especially since we both spelled neighbour with a U hehehehehe) I live in a well-known Canadian city. It's neighbour is an equally well-known city for the same natural wonder ;D Just in case anyone didn't get it, yes, it is Niagara Falls.
The boys watched Home Alone on TV today. They absolutely loved it, but why not because it is a story about a little boy who gets to stay home alone. I forgot how funny that movie is.
WH talked to the boys tonight and I walked out of the room and sat in the bathroom. After they hung up, DS9 said "Daddy wants me to pass on a message." I simply said "No". He said "But Daddy wants to know about Christmas." I said "he needs to talk to IM buddy not pass messages through you and your brother." I then said "You will see Daddy Saturday."
I know that is a long time but if WH doesn't talk to IM that is the first time he is supposed to see them.
Well, I can't feel guilty about that because I haven't asked for outlandish things for him to do. It is quite simple really. OH NO is that a DJ? Even if it is, I am not saying it to him I am saying it about him. ;D
I saw the Olympic torch when it went through Los Angeles ... in Chinatown. Hilarious place to be ... dancing dragons .... clowns on unicycles ... drag queens .... this is LaLa land, after all.
Cool!
My H was one of the runners of the torch about 10 years ago. Cool stuff.
I know I am NOT supposed to read text messages but this one was right on the front of my phone when I looked at it. It was from WH and it said "There is something wrong with the answering machine." HAHAHAHAHAHA Yea do you think? It's UNPLUGGED. HAHAHAHAHA He tried to call 6 times but the boys didn't answer the phone and I was in the shower. I told them they can answer when it is Daddy but I guess they didn't want to.
Had a nice walk around the neighbourhood looking at all of the Christmas lights. Now we are watching Ant Bully.
About a month before I went to plan B, I got caller ID added to our landline. WH knew it and I told him how cool it was to see that telemarketers were calling and who called while everyone was out.
Well, he didn't figure out it was actually so I would know when it was HIM when he left! Took him a long time to realize I could tell it was him. I am not sure he has figured it out yet...lol.
Gotta laugh as humorous stuff to counterbalance the not funny parts!
They need a mom who is strong and emotionally stable. They deserve to feel safe from harm, especially in their own home. They are entitled to a HAPPY Mom to share laughs with and create the basis of family that they will carry in to their own marriages. This is what I am giving them by doing what I am in my current situation.
As I read in another thread (as stated by a vet), they also need to know they have at least one parent with some INTEGRITY.
Scot. You rock so much. You will be alright. Your kids will be alright. I pray that your WH will also be alright eventually. Stay strong - you're an inspiration.
Okay, so this morning DS9 asked me to log in to their email because Daddy promised he would send them a message this morning. I had my fingers crossed that WH would actually write them their email. Well he did. DS9 read it out loud to DS6 and guess what it said.
"Good Morning. I am going to come and see you today as soon as I get off of work."
OH NO. What do I do now? I told DSx2 that Daddy can not come to see them today because he hasn't talked to IM yet. DS9 said "We should write him an email to tell him that."
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
My Dad asked me if I wanted to go anywhere today and I was seriously thinking about not being here when he gets here but the question is how long would he wait?
Well, this is gonna get interesting. I was thinking about caving because I know the kids miss him terribly. The thing is I know he doesn't just want to pick them up, WH wants to come in the house and have his visit. Don't worry I WILL NOT CAVE.
How about leaving for the afternoon - go out for dinner, visit family, last minute Christmas shopping or whatever you can come up with to keep you out all evening. Leave a note on your front door informing him that if he wishes to visit his children he must make the appropriate arranges through the IM as directed. Or better yet, have a neighbour keep watch for him and hand deliver the note so he'll feel less comfortable hanging around.
Also, check with the abandonment laws in your province. Since he handed you the keys when he vacated, it might be construed as abandonment - and therefore if he tries to break into "his" house, you can have him arrested.
Nothing says, "I've got boundries and I mean buisness" like a conversation with a burly cop whose pizzed his coffee's gettin' cold because he's got to talk to a numbnut who left his home for a kooze.
Ask your IMs to email him and let him know that this is NOT acceptable, to be sending messages through your children. They can email him:
Dear Mr. WH,
It has come to our attention that you are emailing your children about your plans to visit them. They would love to see you, however please have the courtesy of going through us to set these visitations up. Your wife is more than willing to work with visitations out, but using the children as messengers is not acceptable and your requests through them will not be honored.
I think you should have your IM contact him and tell him that he is to arrange visitation through them because you may have previous plans with the boys. That said...since he already has the boys looking forward to seeing him and IF you decide to let him see the boys this evening, the IM should ask him what time he will be there, where is he taking them, and what time will he bring them home.
If you decide to let him see the boys tonight, leave a note on the door stating that if he'd like to see the boys they will be at IM's home at X:00 tonight. If he isn't there by X:30, you will be going out w/ the boys instead.
If he doesn't want to adhere to Plan B, then make everything MUCH harder for him.
If he had called IM, IM could have saved him a trip out to your home.
LOVE Marshmallow's idea of leaving the boys with the intermediary tonight! If WH doesn't go to the IMs, he's not welcome to see the kids until he coordinates it through the intermediary. If he does go to the IMs, then the introductions will be made, expectations set, and it should help enforce the boundary.
Very good ideas indeed. I do like the idea that IM would have the boys. Maybe this would give me some time to do the rest of my christmas shopping. I am still weighing my options so keep them coming.
DS9 was a little upset that he couldn't see Daddy today and that is what is killing me. I know THEY miss WH but I am trying to do what is right and he is just trying to get around what I want so he can get what HE wants. I am angry about this and I know that I shouldn't even be worrying about him at all right now.
I reassured DS9 that they will see Daddy Saturday as that was already stated in the children part of my Plan B letter. WH wants to come in here on christmas morning too. I DON'T THINK SO.
Every Sunday from 930am-630pm (I work Sundays 10-530) Every OTHER Saturday from 930am-630pm (I work every other Saturday as well)
Then he was to call IMs to pick a night during the week when would be convenient to him.
I would actually let him see them today if he would just call IM and ask them. I don't mind having a couple of hours notice as long as it is through IM.
He gets off of work at 530 so he could be here by 6pm. He may get off early though.
The illogical bit is why I suggested knowing your rights about abandonment.
It is not unknown around here for a waynerd to break into a house because they feel entitled to.
Know your rights in that corner. Please.
And leave a note on the door - printed out from the computer...I'd not even give him the luxury of my handwriting at the moment...please include the IMs email addy on the note.
And go have fun! Do you have a Dollar Tree up there? I let my kids pick out stuff from there to give to each other - they had a BLAST and it didn't break my wallet.
I would actually let him see them today if he would just call IM and ask them. I don't mind having a couple of hours notice as long as it is through IM.
Scotland, the important thing here is that he is trying to FUDGE your requirements. He is trying to sneak stuff in under the door, so to speak. A little bit here, a little bit there...pretty soon, your Plan B is a big pile of hooey because you never stood your ground and ENFORCED it.
Didn't you remember all of a sudden that you had a terribly important event that you and DSx2 were going to? I hear the mall Santas are practically begging for people to stand in line and have their pictures taken...
I would actually let him see them today if he would just call IM and ask them. I don't mind having a couple of hours notice as long as it is through IM.
Scotland, the important thing here is that he is trying to FUDGE your requirements. He is trying to sneak stuff in under the door, so to speak. A little bit here, a little bit there...pretty soon, your Plan B is a big pile of hooey because you never stood your ground and ENFORCED it.
ITA. Let the kooze be his beck and callgirl.
The key to this is him realizing you and your sons WILL have a life - with or without him.
I know that Cat that's why I don't want to cave. It feels like if I let him see them today then he will think that if he pushes harder on the Christmas thing and just tells the boys that I will let him come then too.
I want to do an excellent Plan B since I did well on Plan A. If not I should have just forgotten about Plan A altogether and said "To H3LL with it" and given up. Since that is not what I want I just wanted some suggestions as to what to do. At least I know that he is coming today so it isn't like I am just sitting here and the doorbell rings. I have time to PLAN PLAN PLAN.
I am definitely taking the kids somewhere and we will be coming home later but I dunno what else to do.
I will ask IM to email him. We don't have voicemail on our cell phones so this is the only way to get him a message.
Maybe they can simply say "Dear WH, We understand that you wrote to the children to tell them you would see them today. Unfortunately, they already have plans and will be unavailable.
They will be ready by 8 am on Saturday. Please contact us with the time you will be picking them up from and returning them to their home on Saturday, so we can pass this information on to BW.
Thank you IM"
This Saturday is a holiday in Canada too and it is called Boxing Day. My MIL always has her Christmas dinner that day so the kids of course will be there. That is why there is a different time for them to be picked up and dropped off.
He gets off of work at 530 so he could be here by 6pm. He may get off early though.
Take the boys out to eat at about 5:00...do some other fun things until the time you set to drop off at IM. THIS way, WH has to find something to do for an hour or two before he can pick up the boys at IM.
He needs to learn that if he had called IM to set this up he would have found out that you and the boys had other plans and wouldn't have wasted his time.
If he keeps insisting on coming into the home to visit w/ the boys then you might have to make sure that you exchange the boys away from your home until he gets it.
If he does go through IM's at some point today, you can be merciful if you want.
However, I think in the future you should expect 24 hours notice. He shouldn't have the luxury of calling up and seeing the kids a couple hours later.
If he doesn't give proper notice, the visit doesn't happen. Period. You can't be always wondering when he's going to take the whim of trying to see them, and figuring out if you can do it this time but not that time, etc., etc...
This needs to be reasonable for you. Always think, "What would a divorce look like?" Cause there's not a judge in the world that will tell you that you need to be Johnny-on-the-spot for him.
Also, for tonight, I think leaving the boys with the IM's and having them send notice that if he wants to see the boys, they will be available between this time and this time, is an acceptable compromise. For the boys' sake, not WS.
At first you need to stick even harder to your guns. It's easier to get WS trained that way.
"Dear WH, We understand that you wrote to the children to tell them you would see them today. Unfortunately, they already have plans and will be unavailable.
They will be ready by 8 am on Saturday. Please contact us with the time you will be picking them up from and returning them to their home on Saturday, so we can pass this information on to BW.
Thank you IM"
IMO, your IM's need to push this issue a little more, even if it's just adding, "It is not acceptable for you to send messages through the children. Visitation needs to be set up via the IM's."
As is, the message seems more like, "Well, it didn't work this time - they already had plans..." instead of "This will never work. Don't bother to try again. If you try again get ready to be disappointed again."
Of course it's the second one you want to convey, just a bit more tactfully.
Well IM sent my version of an email message. I am getting ready to go out although I still have no place to go but I will figure it out. We will go visiting I think and then when it is close to bedtime we will come home.
Well, here's hoping it will work out. Maybe he will realize I mean business. Thanx all. I was having a weak moment and a "I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO" moment but I am passed that now. I'll catch up later tonight. Hopefully the storm will be over by then.
As is, the message seems more like, "Well, it didn't work this time - they already had plans..." instead of "This will never work. Don't bother to try again. If you try again get ready to be disappointed again."
Add to the message that the IM's send him something to the effect of "It's not acceptable for you to use the boys and their email account as a way to deliver messages. It's not good for them. Don't do this again, or we'll have to pull the plug on their email account."
Add to the message that the IM's send him something to the effect of "It's not acceptable for you to use the boys and their email account as a way to deliver messages. It's not good for them. Don't do this again, or we'll have to pull the plug on their email account."
JMHO... -Chel
IMO this is too preachy and will alienate WH against the IMs. (not sayin' it's inaccurate)
I have one question and that is have you got a custody arrangement in place? And how reliable is your H to honor that agreement. I just heard from a guy who has custody of his children he was concerned if his WW had the children on visitation and she did not return them he had little recourse to get them back. He needed to have the custody of the children determined by the court so his rights were established and he had recourse.
This may not apply to you but better safe than sorry. I know the kids want to see him but would he use them to force you to break Plan B?
I totally agree with this BCboy. If there is no custody order in place (temporary or otherwise) both parents have the right to the children. There would be nothing she could do if WH decided to keep the kids, except file a custody case and try to get an emergency hearing.
I agree with both Princess and BCBoy. You need a formal custody/visitation arrangement.
"Call IM to set a night that is convenient" is way too vague. And legally I doubt the IM's are qualified to set a visitation.
A formal agreement will help you, and it will help your boys.
I know everyone here has the best intentions, but I don't know what legal grounds you have to keep the boys from WH. I am trying to speak from a casual observer point of view here. Playing devil's advocate if you will.
WH is their legal father and as far as I have read has done nothing to harm the children. I know the affair does great harm, but from a court's perspective, no physical abuse etc...
Has he agreed to the visitation agreement you laid out in the Plan B letter? If the two of you appeared in front of a judge right now what would he be able to argue and what would you be able to argue. What would the judge say? In the eyes of the judge, does the fact that WH is in an affair mean he has no rights to see his kids? Or a better question, does he get to have no say on when he can see them? I honestly don't know.
You have shown enormous courage and have done great so far. Just make sure you have all your legal ducks in a row.
I may be concerned about this for no reason. Maybe someone else has better insight than I, or knows the legalities of the situation better, can chime in.
If the plug is to be pulled on the boys' email account, it just needs to be done. No warning, just done.
It's always a good idea to look into legal options, still, many many BS's have gone into Plan B with no legal visitation in place. Not to say there never have been, or never could be problems from this, however in most cases the WS and OP have this part-time parent fantasy. No matter what they might say or threaten, they don't really plan on having all of everybody's kids full-time.
Scotland discussed her idea for child visitation w/ WH the day he left the home. He agreed that she was being more than fair about visitation.
What WH disagrees w/ is Scotland NOT allowing him to visit the children in her home. Apparently, he can only get OW to agree to let his children over if she is given enough "notice"...he said he might be able to have them over after Christmas.
He hates Plan B, wants nothing to do w/ the IM, and would rather badger Scotland into going back to Plan A.
Yes, I do know that WH has rights to the children. IMHO if I were to go in front of a judge today there is nothing that looks bad on me. I set out a plan that he would have visitations for the children. I am saving myself from further abuse from adultery by saying I want no contact with him. I have set up IM so he can visit with his children at any time.
I told him the day he was leaving that if he called IM and said "I want to bring the children out for ice cream tomorrow. Can you let BS know and get back to me." that would be ok as long as they didn't have previous engagements. He hasn't even attempted to call IM and they were actually HIS friends first. He is mad at me because he is sending messages through the kids and that is NOT ok with me. WH may not be able to keep all of his emotions out of statements to them.
He has sent me emails and left messages on my answering machine(until I unplugged it). I asked for NO CONTACT and he hasn't followed that at all.
I also have a problem with the fact that he wants to visit them in their home. I told him he needs to take them somewhere else not here.
I do know that he could take them on Saturday and not bring them home. I don't think he will do that but if he does I will act swiftly. I know from experience with the court system in this area what would happen.
My WH sister left her husband 4 1/2 years ago and took her daughter. She kept her from her H for 90 days. When the judge heard that all he did was ask her if the father could have her for 4 hours that day. She said "sure" and she still got full custody. My SIL was even pregnant with OM child at the time so I know how A doesn't really affect child custody at all.
My SIL's XH was told that judges are usually men in their 50's who were raised by Moms so they believe that the Mom is the best place for the children.
I have stated before that I think there are a couple of reasons that WH doesn't want to bring the kids to OW house. Our DS6 can be a handful at times. WH has little patience for his attitude and he can overreact at times. It is not TOO bad but that would break his "I AM PERFECT" facade in OW eyes.
Also, my children are 2 ACTIVE boys. They don't stop moving. OW will only be used to an 11 year old girl. She may LB WH by not liking or even getting mad at the children. These are just my thoughts.
I knew that if I caved today that WH would keep trying to get a little more. He was here and he tried to call 6 times but we were out. We just got home 1/2 an hour ago.
I asked the boys if they wanted to call Daddy and tell him GN but they said they wanted to write an email instead. I said ok and helped them write exactly what they wanted to say. NO EDITING.
I am sticking to a DARK Plan B. As far as what the IM wrote to WH, I believe it was appropriate in this sitch. I want him to contact them and I feel that if they are too hard on him right away he will say they are against him and never want to contact them and he will be able to use THAT against me.
Scotland you are in Ontario. All you need to do is write an agreement and have it signed by a witness and it is legal!!! The courts will hold this up unless there is evidence that the children are in physical danger. Even if you wrote it on toilet paper, this would be enough. We are in do-it-yourself divorce land.
Thanx Tabby.....Good to know. I will get right one that one but not on TP that is a IMPORTANT in this house hehehehehe.
I guess I will just have to pick the evening of the week that WH will get since he hasn't picked one yet. How does Wednesday nights sound? I am going to write it out now
Scotland discussed her idea for child visitation w/ WH the day he left the home. He agreed that she was being more than fair about visitation.
What WH disagrees w/ is Scotland NOT allowing him to visit the children in her home. Apparently, he can only get OW to agree to let his children over if she is given enough "notice"...he said he might be able to have them over after Christmas.
He hates Plan B, wants nothing to do w/ the IM, and would rather badger Scotland into going back to Plan A.
He wants to eat cake when the the mood strikes him also. No discipline. He will be Mr wonderful and cater to OM and her child,(sorry Scotland, I know that hurts), and wont impose on OM with his children.
Its so hard to see a grown Man hurt someone like Scotland just so he can live in a fantasy. This is why plan B is so important for everyone. She needs to protect whatever love is left and because she is the one who is being fair and considerate He needs to see that thier are consequences for selfish behavior.
Even if he never came back it would still be healthier for all in the long run. Otherwise we end up catering to ppls entitlement issues instead of cherishing each other.
SO- don't worry about that hurting me about OW and her child. I already know and actually argued with him about that very fact before I found MB. I was angry but I only told him the thoughts that I knew would be true. It was probably a lot of DJ in there as well but at the time I did what I thought was right.
Now I see what I was doing and I know I will be better. I know either way that I will be ok and our children will be ok but I have to make sure I put us through the least amount of pain while we are transitioning.
I asked my sister if her XH will be coming over Christmas morning to watch their kids open presents and she laughed. EXACTLY my point to my WH. He needs a taste of what D would be like and figure out if that is what he wants.
I AM doing what is best for my kids. If WH were to visit them in their own home they would relive the day he left over and over again. They may even get their hopes up that he maybe wouldn't leave that time. I have to protect them from what I can. I CAN'T protect them from everything but I am going to do my best.
HA, just logged in to yahoo and saw this. What a laugh for me because honestly there was nothing on this that applied to me and my sitch.
1. Cell phone habits change. Turning on vibrate, increase in calls. 2. Shopping for a 'new' wardrobe. Hip younger clothes. 3. Increase in business travel. 4. Changing email passwords and creating new email accounts. 5. Heading straight into the shower when arriving home. 6. Changing an established routine at home and work for no logical reason. 7. An increase of gifts or charges on the credit card statements. 8. Credit card or bank statements are no where to be found. 9. The sex frequency has changed. 10. Change in attitude, looking for excuses to leave late at night.
Scotland, I knew you knew the truth; you're one of the most amazing BS's I've seen here. But it always helps to have reinforcement of your position, you know? I was just trying to reinforce your choices, so you'd feel secure in your decisions, on the one day he'd try to push you the most.
Well, I called around to my family and the first one that called back I said "Hey we are coming for a visit." they said "Ok" and we went. Then I took the kids to McDonalds and we came home.
Since the answering machine was unplugged, no messages. I talked to my sister about actually feeling better this week than I did last week and she said that of course it does because I am not spending any time checking up on him. You know what, she is right. It frees up time in my day not checking up on him. I also have more energy to focus on what is really important.
I am feeling sad sometimes still but it isn't as bad as what I was feeling before.
There are even times when I think that maybe I won't want him back, but those are few and they scare me when I have them.
Just being honest about my feelings in case there are lurkers who are feeling some things I am.
Thanx again for your support everyone. Without you I wouldn't have made it.
I also would like to thank the people with whose opinions I may not agree with. Both sides need to be presented and I need the practice in not using LBs like AO, and DJ.
There are even times when I think that maybe I won't want him back, but those are few and they scare me when I have them.
The first thing I think of is, you are teaching your children NOT to accept pain and suffering when you shouldn't have to. You are teaching them a good lesson by being proactive.
The first thing I think of is, you are teaching your children NOT to accept pain and suffering when you shouldn't have to. You are teaching them a good lesson by being proactive.
This is such an important lesson.
I also love the fact that Scotland gave her sons permission not to be nice to OW.
You're a great mom, Scotland! You really have your head on straight!
This has gotten to be a really long thread so I thought for some new watchers of my thread I will post some details about my sitch.
On September 20, 2009 (My 12th anniversary) my WH had a "TALK" with me where he gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. He then told me he had thought about leaving me. I reacted calmly(inside I was DYING) and just talked to my WH. He said that there was noone else and that even though he was going to leave me it didn't mean it was over. He informed me 2 weeks later that he would be moving in with his "friend(OW)" from work and stay in her extra bedroom.
When he was living there he wouldn't even think about dating. He wouldn't date ANYONE else until he knew for sure there was no chance for us.
Then this was HIS plan.
He would move out some time in February(no exact date). He would continue to put the pay cheques in the bank and only take out what was needed for basic living. He would come here when I had to work and watch our children for me while I took our truck and drove to work. When I came home from work, he would go home. This would have him coming to my house 3-4 times a week and staying in my house while I was at work. (Oh don't worry you'll LOVE this part.) As far as what I would do about grocery shopping. He would take me. Yep that's right. We would all go to the grocery store like a big happy family and shop together.
Now, what have I changed? I asked for NC. I want him to take the kids somewhere else and not come into my house. I asked him to leave a month and a half earlier than he intended. And Groceries, I will be getting them myself.
We do only have one car. He has taken it because he works in one city 20 minutes away from here and lives in another city 30 minutes away from here. I work in this city and the kids go to school a block away. We don't mind taking the bus(actually the kids LOVE it) and we can walk to most of my family's houses. All of their friends live close. The only thing is the IMs. They live closer to WH than me. But I do have a lot of people who are willing to drive us around places. We have always made due.
The truck is in WH name and we have 4 more years of payments (which he has agreed to make, and since the loan is in his name only that was fine with me).
It sucks not having a car but whenever WH was at work, we didn't have a car anyways. It makes it a little more difficult but I have a lot of support in that matter.
Well, I am having a sad-ish day today. The kids are holding up well, I believe that is a testament to my efforts. DS9 did say it was like Daddy is on a vacation though and that makes me think he hasn't accepted it yet, but it is still new.
DS6 said to me "Mommy, I know what your wish is for Christmas. You wish Daddy would come home." I said "yes buddy I do." then he said "Me too." Breaks my heart.
I will be okay but I think it is just the withdrawals form WH not being here and the fact that Christmas is on FRIDAY. Well, I will keep on trucking and get through this just like everything else.
Tonight the kids will be sleeping over at my sister's house and i will come home to an empty house. That is what I think is bringing me so down today. I am sure it will be fine but the anticipation is so much more difficult.
I so admire you, you are a rock star! I know it must be hard, but hang in there. You're sons are very lucky they have you as a mom, when they are older they will look back and look up to you and how you have handled everything.
You are definitely having a life well lived, not just living life.
Tonight the kids will be sleeping over at my sister's house and i will come home to an empty house. That is what I think is bringing me so down today. I am sure it will be fine but the anticipation is so much more difficult.
Bath-time Scotland!! Don't forget the bubble, candles, and scents and a good book. And a space heater. You deserve it. Feed your taker and take advantage of the peace and quite. opt
unfortunately no bath time for me. I was at work and it was CRAZY. I just got home and it is 330am. WH talked to kids tonight while they were at my sister's. They actually talked to him for 15 minutes which is better than they have yet.
I miss them a lot already but I am taking advantage of them not being here so I can wrap and hide the presents. I think I spent 40 dollars just on chocolates. DS6 asked Santa for 1 million chocolates. I didn't buy him nearly a million but probably close to 1000 of those stupid little balls. It is better than what he originally wanted, he wanted Santa to make all of his dolls and stuffed animals to come to life.
The kids are awesome and they keep me smiling. I borrowed a book from my friend on creating a great family. Even if WH doesn't come home I want us to be the best family ever(by US I mean the kids and I).
I am bracing for Xmas day and WH knocking on the door. If it is anything like the rest of the stuff I have braced for it should go fine. I am NOT leaving my house that day just to avoid him. If he knows that we are home I don't care. He made his choice when he walked out the door(he actually made the choice the day he started sleeping with OW but that's another thing). WH decided to give up his family moments.
Sorry just had to vent a bit. I am securely in the ANGER stage of grief I think hehehehe.
Scotland, have you prepared your kids for the possibility of him knocking on the door? I can't imagine a worse scenario than him pounding on the door, and them crying and begging you to let him in.
I really hope you will warn them of WHY you will not be able to do so. Tell them that it is a PLAN to get him back permanently, so you know it will be a little painful tomorrow, but you are counting on them to help YOU help HIM.
I am bracing for Xmas day and WH knocking on the door. If it is anything like the rest of the stuff I have braced for it should go fine. I am NOT leaving my house that day just to avoid him. If he knows that we are home I don't care. He made his choice when he walked out the door(he actually made the choice the day he started sleeping with OW but that's another thing). WH decided to give up his family moments.
Scotland, do you have a plan in case this does happen? I would be prepared for this eventuality and make sure he doesn't come in. If he is allowed to come in, it will undermind your resolve to stay dark. He should not be allowed in no matter what. If he knocks on the door, one suggestion would be to answer and ask him to leave. If he insists on seeing the boys, lock the door behind you, put their coats on them and send them out to visit in his car.
But whatever you do, don't allow him in the house on Christmas. One of the most impactful lessons of Plan B is treating the WS to the reality of single life. Your H has chosen to be single and leave his family for his OW. It is in the best interest of all of you for him to experience exactly what that will be like by spending his Christmas without his family. That experience will influence him to end his affair.
If he knocks on the door, one suggestion would be to answer and ask him to leave.
I'd go one step further: I would simply take the boys and move to a part of the house, if possible, where his knocking can't be heard, and where if he tries to peer into the house, you can't be seen. After a while he should give up and go away.
Go with God, but go.
Dark is DARK.
I'm sorry you have to be in this situation. Christmas is one of the most stressful times of the year even for "normal" people.
Did I miss it and did you tell us about what was planned with H about Xmas morn?
If you can get someone supportive to stay over at the house it would be nice too. Maybe Dad?
Its important that WH realizes he has chosen to throw away this special moment and its important to your Children to see you set healthy boundaries for relationships. I know you know this you rock star. just being supportive.
Its going to be very hard to shut him out because of the effect on the boys, If you can let him take them for awhile without you being around I would think that was wise. If the boys ask why you wont be there with them you can say that it is between you and Daddy, to not worry and that you still love him, and that they will have to trust you. They will need to trust you. You are very worthy of that trust BTW.
Have a great Christmas Scotty and may the light shine on you and yours.
When they ask why you won't be there, "It hurts me too much to be around Daddy while he has a girlfriend. Married people should never have girlfriends or boyfriends."
Okay. I told the kids that Daddy may show up on Christmas morning. I told them that Daddy can't come in the house anymore because he doesn't live HERE. They know that I am doing my best to TRY to get Daddy to come home and that there is a possibility that he won't ever.
I never really thought of what to do on Christmas because WH never seemed to care about Christmas. I know since we have had our children, there were many times that he went to work for the morning. We usually go to my Mom's house on Christmas Day and then go to MIL house on Boxing Day.
I guess if he stays outside for a while I COULD let him see the kids, but I don't know yet. I wasn't even going to acknowledge that he was there except that I know that it will hurt DSx2. I will do some thinking. Maybe I will let him see them for a bit but definitely NOT in my house.
I don't know about talking to him because I think I might cave if I were to do that. I am sure that he will call the house while he is outside(that has been what he has done twice this week). I wasn't going to let the kids talk to him while he was outside, I was going to let him talk to them after he left. Thoughts?
And as far as what I am telling the kids about WH and I and what WH is doing, I have it all covered.
Now, DO NOT LET HIM IN!!!!!!!!! I know you already know this, but I want to make really sure.
If he's outside and calls, take the following steps:
1. Send the boys to a secluded room to watch TV. 2. Turn off all cell phones. 3. Walk over to the house phone. 4. Unplug the phone from the wall jack. 5. Lay the cord gently next to the unplugged cord from the answering machine. 6. Go watch TV with the boys.
I don't know about talking to him because I think I might cave if I were to do that. I am sure that he will call the house while he is outside(that has been what he has done twice this week). I wasn't going to let the kids talk to him while he was outside, I was going to let him talk to them after he left. Thoughts?
I was talking to my Dad on the phone while typing and then when I re-read what I wrote I was like NO I AM NOT LETTING HIM IN. Oops, I changed that now though.
Okay. I told the kids that Daddy may show up on Christmas morning. I told them that Daddy can't come in the house anymore because he doesn't live HERE. They know that I am doing my best to TRY to get Daddy to come home and that there is a possibility that he won't ever. .... And as far as what I am telling the kids about WH and I and what WH is doing, I have it all covered.
I honestly never thought that WH would even care about seeing the kids on Christmas day. I believe I have 2 options. Option one: I ignore WH when he is at the door and just carry on like he didn't exist. Stay VERY VERY DARK. (pro: this shows WH that he has to do things my way for a change. I keep all of my strength and pride and integrity. con: it hurts the kids).
Option two: I email WH telling him this "WH, I never realized you would want to see the boys on Christmas Day. They will be available for you to pick them up at 2pm and you can return them home by 9pm. "
Option two: THE INTERMEDIARIES email WH telling him this "WH, your wife never realized you would want to see the boys on Christmas Day. They will be available for you to pick them up at 2pm and you can return them home by 9pm. "
With the change to contact coming from the IM's, either option is a good one, IMO.
The main point here is not whether he sees the boys or not - it's that you don't see him or talk to him, and are in charge of what happens.
You making the offer to let him see them from 2-9 keeps you in control of what happens, and makes sure things stay on your terms.
He may never agree to use the IM's, and that's ok.
My first time as an IM, the WS absolutely refused to use the IM's, start to finish. He was angry and rude to us a couple times first, then proceeded to email his BW every single time.
The BW had a fancier email than I do, and was able to forward all his emails automatically to her team of IM's, plus have them deleted out of her mailbox at the same time.
Thus evolved a limpy, triangular sort of system. WS - - - > BW - - - > IM's automatically - - - > response to WS.
It wasn't ideal, but it worked. Functionality is the test of success. You may need to wind up doing something similar if he refuses to use your IM's.
Thanx Neak that does sound better than me writing him. Funny I didn't even think of that one. The reason I was torn was because I really didn't want to break NC with him. I think I will get in contact with IM now and get them to write to him. I don't expect any response from him but this way I cover my butt. He can't say that I didn't allow him to see the kids. I don't see any judge making me let him in my house after he has moved out.
Frustrating sometimes. These Aliens need to get off of this planet already ahhhhhhhh
Wow, that was lucky. IMs were on their way out the door to go away for Xmas. They won't be back until Saturday Night. I asked them to email him with the info about tomorrow. That really does feel like the right thing to do for me. I know the kids will love to see him and I hope that he doesn't TRY to come in. I will lock the door behind the kids and hopefully he will get the point. This would be a better option for me than him banging on the door. That would have killed me and the kids.
Thanx and MERRY CHRISTMAS. I will be at my Mom's tonight and then I will be with the kids tomorrow. I will probably log on after the kids go to sleep tomorrow because I feel good being on here. I keep reading threads and other articles and learn new things every time.
Here are your 2 all-purpose rules for breaks in NC.
1. You shouldn't break NC yourself unless the Emergency Room is involved.
2. If a breach of NC happens for any reason whatsoever, handle it with near-Plan A behavior. Be charming and polite, smile and say hi, and get away from WS as fast as possible. (If, by some quirk of fate, the OW is there, pretend you don't even see her. She is nothing to you, and looking right past her is the most scathing thing you could ever do.)
You may want to think about having a backup IM for the few occasions when your regular IM's are unable to contact WH for you. I don't think anyone would even need to let WH know you had done this unless you had to actually use your backup.
Be watchful and don't get caught off guard. Your best defense against having him try to get into the house is to have the boys walking out the door as he pulls up.
Well we have an enclosed porch. There are two doors. The one to the porch and the one to the house. I am going to instruct the kids to go on the porch, I will lock the house door and then they can unlock the porch door. I just have to figure out what to do to get them back in without him following them. That I have almost 24 hours to figure out though.
When you see him pull in w/ the boys, you can go to the porch to unlock it for the boys. If WH starts to follow them, you can tell your boys to say goodbye to their daddy, and then hold the door open for them. Quickly closing it after them.
Stand to the side so he can't see you...or see you well. Don't look at him.
Maybe a friend or family member could be there for the drop-off. Or even hire a sitter.
Finding a way to be gone for drop-offs that you suspect are likely to become sticky is one of the most effective ways of short-circuiting all those scrambled little alien ideas without any Lovebusters.
W/ regards to WH not using IM, you could set up a new e-mail account maybe use part of your name or the boy's names in it, and give it to WH to use, and then give it and the password to IM, that way they can screen his e-mails for you and he doesn't have to know they are.
You could tell IM to send him an e-mail saying that you have closed your old account and have opened a new one.
WH may figure out what you are doing, but it's worth a shot.
I dunno. If he doesn't know the IMs are reading the emails, he think Scotland has caved. I have a fundamental dislike of somebody thinking they've got the better of me when I know they have not! Personally, I would have to have him use the IMs and not try to bypass my Plan B terms, in order for it to be acceptable to me. But it's possible I could just be acting unreasonably stubborn, too. Certainly my husband, The Clam, often thinks I am!
Well, I may be a little stubborn too because I think that he would think I am caving if I chose that option. I know I have caved in many aspects of our relationship since the kids were born. I think that is part of what he fell out of love with me (dunno what need that meets hahahaha). I used to be one of those teenagers who walked around saying "Yea I am a B and I don't care who knows it." Then I had kids and became a MOMMY.
Not that Mommy's can't be B's but I had to be soft and I knew that. I also know that I like to make people laugh by poking fun and teasing people. I only do it to people I like (tend to ignore people I don't like hehehehe). I used to do it to WH all of the time but we really stopped going out together. I wasn't going to put him down in front of our children. They might not have known I was joking. I know that OW does the same kind of joking with him. WH used to tell me about it. When I told him that I couldn't do that to him anymore he said "yea it hurts when it comes from someone you are supposed to love."
DS9 talked to WH tonight and WH said he would see him on Saturday. Maybe he finally got this Plan B thing. Now I have to use the exchanging of the kids thing on Saturday instead.
I am still bracing in case he comes tomorrow.
DS6 is now REFUSING to talk to WH on the phone. He said, "I am not talking to Daddy because I am mad at him for leaving us." I dunno what to do about that one. I am not going to MAKE him talk to him. I just hope he will actually go with him on Saturday.
Well, this morning went off without a hitch. WH didn't come to the house and knock on the door. DS9 talked to him this morning and WH said he would be here at 2 to pick them up. IM message obviously did the trick. I guess he even tried to call IM but they had already left. A step in the positive direction for sure. Hopefully he won't try to come in today though. This is the first time he will be seeing the kids since he left last week. DS6 still refuses to talk to WH on the phone but he has said that he will go with him today. That's good cuz I don't know what I would do if he didn't want to.
There is a funny/sad part of this story though. DS9 was talking to Wh and he looked at me and said "Mommy, Daddy wants to know if we can give him some groceries because he doesn't have very many." I just looked at DS9 and said "Just talk to Daddy." He told WH what I said. No other response. Then when they got off of the phone DS9 said that WH asks him to do him favours. I told him that wasn't right and what kind of favours? He said he couldn't remember. Gotta make sure I watch that.
As far as the food goes, I say "NOPE". I mean what does he think this is the food bank? It is money from both of us, but I am the one who got it from the store. He is a big person and he is the one with a car, he can go himself. I know that the stores are closed today but they weren't yesterday and they will reopen tomorrow.
I almost entertained the thought of sending food for the kids to make sure they would be fed but NOPE. He lost that right when he left me. I was always the one to make sure when we went anywhere that I had juice boxes and snacks for the kids, now he can do that when they are with him. If we went the D way, I sure as h3ll wouldn't be doing it for him then. 711 is always open and thee are always Chinese restaurants. He could bring them home early and I would feed them dinner.
Well, I got through it. Lots of tears after the door closed. Now I see why NC with WH. I just saw a shadow and heard his voice and I started just crying. I was whispering "I love you." to him. He couldn't hear me but I needed to say it. I know that is sappy but it was a long time that I said it and I will always mean it no matter what. There will always be a part of me that loves him whichever way this turns out.
Now what to do? It is Christmas and everyone else is busy. Dishes are done, laundry is getting done. I think I will read a book, and maybe take a nap.
I have to try not to think about the fact that WH is taking them to OW house right now. I think he may have wanted them to sleep over cuz he told DS6 that he could bring his "Baby"(a pillow) and "Winnie"(his Cabbage patch kid). DS6 said no he wanted to bring his DS. Well, at least I know they will be coming home because DS6 would NEVER sleep without those two things.
One more hurdle was crossed today and like I said it was easier than I was expecting. WH will have them again tomorrow and again Sunday. I am glad for the kids that they got to see WH.
Scotland I read your post and felt a pang go through my heart for your situation. What you describe is the part of the collateral damage I have grown to hate about the impacts of infidelity. There is significant emotional turmoil and pain that goes on for years because of the selfish actions of someone you pledged to love forever.
Events like Christmas are especially difficult because it highlights the expectation of celebrations involving the intact "happy" family. I am really beginning to wonder how many of those still exist anymore.
It is at times like this when I find the comfort of prayer and listening to hymns a great comfort. One of the things that the separation with my wife caused me to do was explore the spiritual aspect of my life, and that has been a great comfort for me. I will say a prayer for you Scotland, and bless you for continuing to seek the best for your young family.
Thank you. It is 730pm and the children have been dropped off without incident. WH didn't even try to come in and when I opened the door I stood behind it so he wouldn't see me. They met OW and that I knew was going to upset me. I always knew they would meet her but the first day had to be Christmas? That is a day for families and now mine got torn apart and OW had them for Christmas evening. I know this is Plan B. Time for ME and all of that but it was a rough day. Well, the day will be over soon enough and I will wake up tomorrow and DO IT AGAIN. AHHHHHHHH. I am sure the more I do it the easier it will be but I hate thinking about it like that. What I want to do is feel the feelings and EVENTUALLY move on from them.
They met OW and that I knew was going to upset me. I always knew they would meet her but the first day had to be Christmas? That is a day for families and now mine got torn apart and OW had them for Christmas evening. I know this is Plan B.
Scotland, I would put a stop to that REAL QUICK. Your kids should not be dragged into his sleazy affair unless it is with a court order and a sheriff with a BIG GUN. That is outrageous that he would do this to his own kids. Most waywards will try to quickly introduce the kids in an effort to normalize their filthy affair and give it a false air of respectibility. I would let him know that his visitation will be ENDED REAL QUICK unless he keeps these kids away from his filthy adultery partner. [have your IM's tell him this] As long as you have custody of the kids, you can set the parameters of what they are exposed to until he gets a court order saying otherwise.
Additionally, I would set the kids down and make sure they understand that their dad has done a terrible, despicable thing by having an affair and introducing them to the enemy of their family.
Well, the kids have to go to MIL house for Christmas stuff. I was thinking about picking up an extra shift at work to watch all of the CRAZY shoppers.
I was in a sad place while the kids were gone. I started thinking about some stuff(that tends to happen when I am alone). I was thinking about if WH and OW would last. I mean it IS possible but highly unlikely. OW has never dated anyone longer than 2 years(she is PROUD of that BTW). WH WAS a good guy but to have an A you have to go away from being a good guy and change into someone else. WH took 16 years before he started lying to me and he started to lie to OW from the beginning.
Okay I know they CAN stay together and be happy but I was trying to make myself feel better and it worked.
Well ML I would love to try to stop them from seeing her but I don't think that is really possible right now. WH lives with OW and he has nowhere else to take them. I either let him come in here or go to her house.
I don't actually have custody yet. I am writing up a custody agreement and I have to get to IM and get WH to sign it. I don't think that I can legally keep them away from her anyways. I have told the kids that what Daddy is doing is VERY wrong and that OW is the reason he left. I made sure I reminded them before they left that they DO NOT have to edit anything they say to OW or WH.
This is all that I CAN do. I know WH didn't want to introduce them just yet. He would actually probably say that I forced him (blah blah blah) in to it since I wouldn't let him visit with them here. He hadn't introduce them and they had started an EA more than 2 years ago and I believe a PA for at least 1 year.
Our court system, from what I've heard from others in adulterous situations, treats both parties of separation/divorce the same, regardless of one person having an A.
Like I said, I don't know, I was never in this position. It is for sure worth looking into with a lawyer. I'm pretty sure it was suggested somewhere in this thread, it might actually have been you that posted that.
You guys have no fault and fault states, which is great. In a no fault state, can that stipulation be made in a separation agreement??
Well ML I would love to try to stop them from seeing her but I don't think that is really possible right now. WH lives with OW and he has nowhere else to take them. I either let him come in here or go to her house.
Scotland, you can tell him he is not to take the kids around the OW no matter what. He can take them to the park, a restaurant, or whereever. He can figure that out. But I would make him get a court order if he wants to take your children in situations that are unfit for little children. Otherwise, he shouldn't be allowed to see them. He should not be allowed to corrupt them without putting up a fight.
Many parents here in Plan B have made this stipulation. Your Plan B is likely to outlast his affair, anyway. I wouldn't make this easy on him at your childrens expense. IF he wants to abandon his family for an affair, then he should be forced to go to the trouble of finding a decent place for their visitation.
Putting your foot down about this sends a strong message to him and the OW that their relationship is UNFIT for children. And it is. He needs to keep his kids away from his affair. Allowing this exposure sends the message of endorsment. If your kids see you put your foot down they will know you are serious about the inappropriateness of their dad's adultery.
Many folks here have prevented their kids from contact with the OP and even had this stipulated in their court papers. If he is going to corrupt your children, i would make him have to FIGHT for the opportunity.
Our court system, from what I've heard from others in adulterous situations, treats both parties of separation/divorce the same, regardless of one person having an A.
oh ok, I was not aware there was a court order that he could expose the children to his affair. This has been to court?
I strongly agree with Melodylane. I would find out if you can do this legally, if you can that's great, if you can't then I'd go with a verbal stipulation via the IM's. Your kids can be fully aware that you do not condone WH exposing them to OW, for the stated facts that it is cruel and abusive.
You maybe can't force WH to follow your stipulation, but he and your kids will know that you strongly disapprove of this. Make it as difficult as possible.
It makes me sick that your boys are exposed to POSOW.
If there is no court order, I would be tellng him that if she wants to continue to see the kids, he will have to protect them from his affair and not take them around his fellow adulterer. EVER. That is an indecent situation for kids. He can ride around, take them to the movies, or maybe visit them at your MIL.
But please don't let him corrupt your kids without a fight, Scotland. His affair is too indecent and will very likely not last beyond any potential legal proceedings. Disallowing him to take the kids around this skank will make his affair very inconvenient and it will send a strong message to everyone concerned that this situation is unfit for kids.
Our court system, from what I've heard from others in adulterous situations, treats both parties of separation/divorce the same, regardless of one person having an A.
oh ok, I was not aware there was a court order that he could expose the children to his affair. This has been to court?
no,no,no ...... omg I don't know if we are that backwards here, I'm saying that I've not ever heard that a BS is able to make that stipulation in legal agreements. Our courts do not recognize adultery as grounds for anything, as far as I know. I think Scotland just answered some of your questions in her last post.
I would find out if you can do this legally, if you can that's great, if you can't then I'd go with a verbal stipulation via the IM's.
It is not illegal to prevent your kids from being introduced to corrupt situations. The ONUS should be on him to get legal relief, NOT HER. All she has to do is say that she won't let the kids go with him if they are going to be introduced to his filthy affair. And in order to let them go, he has to assure her of this.
Otherwise, he can have supervised visitation at her mothers. [or other relative] If he doesn't like it, he can get a court order. Most WSs wouldn't DARE pull such a sleazy stunt in Plan B. BS' do this all the time here. This is usually stipulated in the Plan B letter, but it can be communicated via the IM.
In other words, until there IS a legal separation in place, SCOTLAND is the law of the land. And will be so until her H has a court order and a SHERIFF to execute such order.
Otherwise, he can have supervised visitation at her mothers. [or other relative] If he doesn't like it, he can get a court order. Most WSs wouldn't DARE pull such a sleazy stunt in Plan B. BS' do this all the time here.
okay, I see what you are saying ..... let WH get a court order to see his kids if the BS won't allow visitation if the WS won't guarantee the children's safety ie. NC with OP. That makes perfect sense and a good route to go.
The kids have told Scotland that they have been introduced to your adultery partner, which is inappropriate for kids. She has has asked me to tell you that the kids are not to be in the OW's home or in her presence under any circumstances. In order to continue visitations, she would need your assurance that they won't be in the OW's home or exposed to her in any way.
She wants you to have as much contact as possible with the boys, but not if it means they are exposed to your affair.
Vittoria, it is often a huge wake up call to the WS to realize that their "relationship" is unfit for children. They will USE children to try and give their affair a false air of respectibility. But when kids are not allowed to be dragged into their affair, the reality of the sleaziness of their affair takes some of the gloss off the shiny pig pen.
Vittoria, it is often a huge wake up call to the WS to realize that their "relationship" is unfit for children. They will USE children to try and give their affair a false air of respectibility. But when kids are not allowed to be dragged into their affair, the reality of the sleaziness of their affair takes some of the gloss off the shiny pig pen.
ITA, the part that I couldn't get was how to enforce this if not legally. I do now, thanks.
Okay I will try to do what you are suggesting as soon as I get him to sign my child custody agreement. After that WH will not be able to take the kids away from me. Right now, he could actually take the kids for a visit and not bring them back. If I tried to tell him he couldn't visit with the children until he finds somewhere else to take them he may retaliate with keeping them until I get a court order. It may be a week before I can get this figured out with all of the holidays and stuff.
I am definitely going to talk to a lawyer and do some more research. I know I need to get the custody agreement signed FIRST and then I will have the right to have them with me and WH will have no recourse.
Thank you for your recommendations. It truly did hurt me to have them be with OW and she even sent home some cake. That went in the GARBAGE. Good thing the garbage goes out tomorrow, I can't get it out of my house fast enough.
Scotland, most waywards will comply because they know deep down what they are doing is wrong. They know it is bad for the kids. What he is doing is outrageous and I would put a stop to it ASAP.
Scotland, most waywards will comply because they know deep down what they are doing is wrong. They know it is bad for the kids. What he is doing is outrageous and I would put a stop to it ASAP.
This is true Scotland. I got my WH (now X) to sign a separation agreement that says ds was not to be exposed to ANY woman of a romantic nature while we were still married and our divorce agreement says he can't have over night guests while ds is with him. I probably could not have got a judge to order that, but as Melody says most won't dare challenge such a basic requirement of decent parental behavior.
I am writing the custody agreement exactly as we had discussed the night I went into Plan B. He told me then that it was fair and it is. I am relatively sure he will sign it.
As long as he does sign it then I would have legal recourse if he was to try to keep the kids when he is supposed to return them. He even wrote them an email saying that he would bring them there for a sleepover after christmas.
He even wrote them an email saying that he would bring them there for a sleepover after christmas.
OMG, my father corrupted me in the same way when I was little but he would have never DARED take me for an overnight with one his mistresses. He actually took me to his hotel room to meet his OW when I was FOUR and that was bad enough. But, I did go to counseling for YEARS and was able to overcome being so screwed up by the moral confusion.
WH had a childhood where his parents cheated and actually brought those people in to their house. He always said he wouldn't have an A because of how much he suffered as a child. Guess he didn't stick to that one. That's why I am telling my boys everything about the affair and how wrong it is. My Dad was abusive and I broke the cycle and I hope to teach my children to break the cycle of adultery that has been passed down for generations.
Scotland, most waywards will comply because they know deep down what they are doing is wrong. They know it is bad for the kids. What he is doing is outrageous and I would put a stop to it ASAP.
I agree with Mel and the other posters here that you still have the authority to decide what is right for the boys.
Its so common that OW will listen to the WH spin the tales of what a good Family man he was and so on and want to have that with the Man they steal from their families. Part of the desparate fantasy crap they both buy into. They don't even think of what the children go through, its all about the fantasy.
WH had a wholesome home where he could be with his children and chose to leave. If he could see that he has run off to join the circus in his mind then maybe he would not try to raise his children with the yak lady and feed them carnival food. (No offense to any Yaklady who has a wholesome marriage BTW)
Poor Scotland, You do so well, and another boundary needs to be set that causes you pain and frustration. Thank God and I mean God for these people here that are like angels. They come here everyday tirelessly for years defending Love. They are so on the money with the advice and support.
As I read here a line in a song by Pete Townsend keeps coming to mind. One of my favorite songs BTW. "You better you bet"
"When I say 'I love you' you SCREAM you better, you better you bet. You better bet your life,.. or it will cut you...cut you like a knife..."
Sorting- I so agree with you about thanking God and the universe for MB and the people here. If it weren't for all of you I would be living in my own personal H3ll with NO CHANCE to save my M. As it is now I have a slight chance but slight is better than none. I just want to get the custody agreement signed and then I can play hardball with no worries. My IM will be home on Saturday night, I will contact them and get them to ask him to come to their house to sign the paperwork. Then after that they can write him the email about not letting OW near them. I will have to endure it until then. He is picking them up tomorrow and Sunday.
Thank you so much all for your support and advice. I sometimes need a good kick in the pants. My sister told me that I shouldn't try to do this because it will just cost me money. Well, guess what WH has no money either.
I just thought of something funny that you said that is kind of on point. DS9 told me that they ate NACHOS for dinner. They had chocolate cake and slurpees and played video games all night. Would that quantify as carnival food the yak lady would serve? Disney-dad on a budget anyone? I have to laugh to keep from crying.
My WH really was a good dad until he started his A. He had a great relationship with them and now POOF he threw it all away for HIS "happiness". Well, maybe he will realize it is not so Happy like this. AHHHHHHHHH frustrating wayturds.
ITA with Mel, and I'm glad you're digging the trenches for a stand on this.
The overall legal results are important, yes, but far more crucial is your fight to keep them away from OW. Your fight shows with actions that you don't accept what their dad is trying to do to them.
I know Neak. I just mean I want to make sure he can't keep them from ME and their home. I don't trust him to do what is best for them. I need to get the agreement signed and then I will take this advice whole-heartedly. If he doesn't sign the agreement then I will do it anyways and brace for impact.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH why is it that it seems that everything on tv tonight has something to do with affairs or D? I was watching Seinfeld and it was the one where George sleeps with a MW. Then I watch Till Death and it is the one where his parents are gonna get a D. Now I watch Friends and it is the one where Chandler is in Tulsa and the girl hits on him. There was also Numbers where a cop tells of the affair she had with her M partner. There were a few other ones that I didn't even watch because I realized there were triggers right away. NOT FUN.
I still find that when watching a show that has anything in it with adultery or leaning that way, I get a twinge. I don't know if that ever goes away????
It's amazing just how many plots have A's in them.
It really says something about society that in sitcoms they would use this over and over again. Most of the time it is just laughed about and hidden. It always bothered me but now it is worse. How can we expect our children to hold M near and dear when they are inundated with this all of the time.
I guess the better question is how do we not have horrible values when we were inundated with this stuff ourselves? I was raised with a good sense of family(all be it a dysfunctional one). I have a good sense of self and who I am and who I want to be and that is the legacy I plan on giving my children.
Funny - my family (parents, brothers and their wives) got into a conversation about politics and entertainers. My little bro idolizes Toby Keith - "true patriot" in his mind.
I made the crack about his glorifying adultery with his Mexico song... He brought up the booze and the drinking in the industry - and I said something about a patriot doesn't glorify something that attacks the fundamental basis of society - the family.
My mom- the one with a history of adultery sticks up for my POV and says - hey - if you take down the family you take down the country. So a true patriot doesn't glorify adultery. period.
Wow. Just wow!
Guess Toby Keith's Mexico song better get deleted from little bro's play list!!
Well, day 2 of WH visiting with DSx2. Today he is taking them to his mother's house for Christmas. SIL will be there with the OM who broke up her M and their 2 kids. WH may bring POSOW to the festivities as well. MIL just says that she doesn't get involved in this kind of thing. Well, how could she when she cheated on FIL and FIL cheated on her too. WH and SIL used to say they would NEVER have an A because of their childhood. Time to break the cycle and show my boys what M should really be about. It's gonna be a long journey but I have to make it.
saynomore-Boxing Day is a holiday from England. In Canada we also celebrate it. It used to be a holiday like Christmas where all of the stores were closed and you spent time with your family. Now it has turned into a CRAZY shopping day where people go to stores and shop for bargains. My DS9 used to think it was a day where you would fight people. Oh children are funny sometimes.
I just thought of something funny that you said that is kind of on point. DS9 told me that they ate NACHOS for dinner. They had chocolate cake and slurpees and played video games all night. Would that quantify as carnival food the yak lady would serve? Disney-dad on a budget anyone? I have to laugh to keep from crying.
My WH really was a good dad until he started his A. He had a great relationship with them and now POOF he threw it all away for HIS "happiness". Well, maybe he will realize it is not so Happy like this. AHHHHHHHHH frustrating wayturds.
Yeah , the term Disney-dad gets used a lot here and it fits well.
I was of course using the "carnival food" as a metaphor for what the children would be taking in as examples in living but its not surprizing that they got fed that food.
When my wife tried to get our two boys,(18 and 14),to accept her BF they tried to buy and sell their way into their hearts by taking them to resorts and fancy restaurants. It was torture for me. I had allways wanted to take my family to those places and now after years of work and sacrifice, this idiot was going to look like a hero? Well it didn't work. Children see through that stuff more than we think. People in general and especially our children trust and respect what others suffer through for them more than the easy way out. Especially when it comes to promises. They know that you don't run away from fighting for who you love.
Yes it is frustrating, I accually felt sorry for the OM. Yes guys I know that he was a POS getting his rocks off screwing another mans wife and she was soaking in the drugs and rebelious behavior she felt so entitled to. I just felt sorry for him because he was a coke-head successful businessman who bought my WW line. He believed that my WW loved him and depended on him and he was her savior. GEEEZZZ for Gods sake WW.. The "poor little cinderella" crap lol. Its amazing how many guys will believe that or just pretend(or want) to anyways.
Don't let it get ya down Scotty, "The reactas CAN take the sta-dain"
Yeah and what kind of hairdo does the POSOW have? Maybe one that would hide the horns?
DS9 told me that they ate NACHOS for dinner. They had chocolate cake and slurpees and played video games all night.
So, I take it you provide scrumptuous, healthy, balanced meals and stick to consistent bed-times when they're home? Like plan A-ing your WH indirectly through them - in a good way, not manipulatively.
Because....let's face it, even kids get sick of chocolate cake and slurpees. And as pointed out above, kids see through the bullsh!t. WH will feel be feeling the strain.
------Only throwing it out for consideration/discussion. I don't know from plan B except what I've read here.
Scot, you're still a hero. I love reading your thread. It's life-affirming.
I of course do not always have totally balanced meals here. The worst thing I would do would make breakfast for dinner to which WH would say "French Toast for dinner?" He used to make a big deal when once in a while (like when we were going somewhere on a trip) we would stop at a donut shop and the kids would ask for a donut and he would say "No donuts for breakfast." I just wanted to make the point that he was trying to "buy" them. Not making them eat correctly and letting them play video games all evening.
Wh even emailed them and said that they looked so cute playing games. I let my kids have treats every once in a while. They even get to stay up past their bedtime sometimes, but I can't do that everytime they are with me. I have to be the bad guy.
Wow, I just totally remembered something that I said to WH about a year ago. You see, I have known that OW existed for 2 years. I talked to her on the phone and saw her a few times and talked to her. I used to tell my WH that it felt like OW and I were HIS parents. I was his mom who would have to make him eat his veggies, take a bath, do homework and go to school. OW was like a part time dad who said "You want cake for dinner? Why not! Oh and play video games all day? Go ahead! Bedtime? what's that?" I was trying to tell him that I was the one who had to live regular life with him with responsibilities and she got to live the weekend kind of life. Wow, did I ever peg that one.
Worked 5 hours today at the ZOO(major retailer on boxing day in Canada) Time went by slowly but at least I didn't sit at home missing my family.
Well, the boys are home safe and sound(not that I expected anything different). At least there was no close encounter of the POSOW kind today. There was a bit of an incident though. Nothing serious just a misunderstanding. DS9 came on to the porch and said "Daddy has to bring some stuff on the porch that I couldn't carry. I said, "okay wait for me to get in the house." He did but then I closed the house door. Didn't want to see WH. DS6 started crying that he wanted to come in the house not wait on the porch. He started crying. I wasn't going on to the porch or saying anything. Then WH came on the porch and said "Let him in the house for F sakes" (WH never started swearing A LOT until about 6 months ago and I even noticed and pointed it out to him)Well It wasn't me that was not letting him in. DS9 had told DS6 to wait for Daddy to say good bye. But WH thought I had locked the door and not let him in. Like I didn't want to just go outside and hug them and kiss them and make sure they were safe. Well, I almost broke NC and said "It wasn't me." But instead I just stood behind the door. DS6 came in and that was that.
AHHHHHHHH STUPID WAYTURDS. He broke a promise to DS9 again tonight. I hate that because I am the one who has to comfort him. WH left 1 hour and 10 minutes ago and told DS9 that he would email him as soon as he got home. Well it only takes 30 minutes MAX to drive there so now DS9 went to bed with no email as promised. He kept looking and didn't want to go to bed until he received one. I told him he could check first thing in the morning. AHHHHHHHHH must be nice to be a wayturd and have no consequences to your actions.
AHHHHHHHHH must be nice to be a wayturd and have no consequences to your actions.
But Scottie, there are consequences to WH's actions: little by little he is destroying the esteem in which his children (should) hold him.
My WW's kids all love their mom. But they have absolutely no respect for her! And as they get older, they will likely want to have less and less to do with her. Then, when she's in her 60s and 70s, and they are young adults, she'll be left with no one coming to visit. Perhaps a perfunctory text message that says, "I love you mom." Just like the ones she's sending them today...
OMG. so I thought that I pulled myself out of his drama and what happens? Well, DS9 asked if he could email Daddy and remind him about seeing him tomorrow. This is part of our arrangement of visitation. Well, I read his response(I know I shouldn't have but I am glad I did). He said that he something to do tomorrow and will not be here. WTF? I am scheduled to go to work every Sunday and WH knows that. He said that we both need each other to work to keep the kids in this house, etc.
Well, I had to call my Mom to see if she can watch the kids. I absolutely HATE having to rely on people but it isn't like I could call in sick. I need the money to feed and clothe my kids.
I was so angry at him when I called my Mom and then what happened? I got angry at my Mom. She agreed to watch the kids for me and even give me a ride to work if I needed it. But what did I get mad about? Her negative attitude(she called it giving me a dose of reality) She keeps telling me that WH will never be who he was ever again. That I can't keep telling myself that he will come back because he most likely won't and I have to be realistic. I can't keep hoping and thinking he will come back it is not good for me.
I was actually yelling at her because she wouldn't let me talk to her. I explained that I couldn't let my WH cake eat just like she was doing because I didn't want to be where my Dad is in a year and a half. I told her that I had to show WH what life would be like without me. He needs to see what is going to happen.
I think that this little stunt he pulled is a way to get back at me. He is trying to get me angry at him. Maybe he even wants a reaction out of me so he can say "See, that's why I left her, she is crazy."
Man this is going to be a disappointment to DS9. I hope he can express himself to WH. I hope he will say something like "Daddy what was so important for you to do today that you didn't have time to see me?" I won't tell my kids to say stuff like this because that would be using them but I hope they can think of these sort of things on their own.
Well, gotta go to bed since I have to function at work tomorrow. I can't afford to lose my job. AHHHHHHH
Sorry to hear that your Mom couldn't let you talk it out and be upset and also that she is supporting WHs position. It is very hard to get support from foggy people. Almost impossible to expect help from someone supporting a lifestyle that is against what you are fighting for. Its too bad that she couldn't add to her statement that he will never be the way he was because he will be BETTER than before. You know Mom, more mature and responsible as adults should be? Or I will do fine without him Mom. Waynurds indeed! Hang in there Scotty you are doing great.
Sorry to hear that your Mom couldn't let you talk it out and be upset and also that she is supporting WHs position. It is very hard to get support from foggy people. Almost impossible to expect help from someone supporting a lifestyle that is against what you are fighting for. Its too bad that she couldn't add to her statement that he will never be the way he was because he will be BETTER than before. You know Mom, more mature and responsible as adults should be? Or I will do fine without him Mom. Waynurds indeed! Hang in there Scotty you are doing great.
Scotty, you know I'm no vet and I'm just trying to support you because I'm following your thread and you just seem like an amazing person. I want you to succeed for you and your kids. Sorting has said it very well. You are mostly alone in your fight (except for us). I noticed this in my sitch right away when I exposed. People Don't Get It! We live in a People Magazine Society where marriages are measured in minutes and faithfulness is a thing of the past. If you're experience is anything like mine in that regard, you will get very little support from those not familiar with MB. You just won't.
Also, I know you're feeling upset but I have to point out something you already know, just for emphasis because it's important. You were told by vets some time ago (I think maybe ML or Cat or someone like that) that your WH was going to lie to your children sooner or later. [if I'm wrong and I didn't read it in YOUR thread, I'm sure you've read enough here to know it's true]. He would let them down. That's what they do. I think you need to expect it. You'll be the one consoling them and Fred is right: there are huge consequences to his actions. Let them know they have at least one parent with some integrity - this told to me from a vet - and they will turn out okay. From my brief training in child psychology, if a child has at least ONE rock in their life (a parent, grandparent, coach, teacher, etc), they can thrive.
Again Scot. I'm no vet. I'm speaking only from the heart here and very limited experience with this stuff. (I'm still working a plan A and praying hard). Even so, I hope what I've said helps you a little. You're truly a remarkable human being.
Re-group and get out of the drama. Kids get stuck on porches once in a while, he's not scarred for life. The vets will be back soon to keep you on the right track.
I was so angry at him when I called my Mom and then what happened? I got angry at my Mom. She agreed to watch the kids for me and even give me a ride to work if I needed it. But what did I get mad about? Her negative attitude(she called it giving me a dose of reality) She keeps telling me that WH will never be who he was ever again. That I can't keep telling myself that he will come back because he most likely won't and I have to be realistic. I can't keep hoping and thinking he will come back it is not good for me.
Are you most upset that you lost your temper with your mom (who is helping you out when WH failed you AGAIN) or that she doesn't think your plan to get him back will work?
It might not work. Sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes after being without them, you don't want them back.
And sometimes we take our anger out on those we most love---like moms.
You really need a constant back up plan in place for your work situation. He is going to try to push buttons and make you wish you had not kicked him out. I know my WH (x now) relished me being here alone with an acre to mow and weedeat. He wanted me to ask for help soooooo bad. I just resolved to ask him for NOTHING. It about killed me yesterday to have to text him and ask him for help with our wireless connection password. I half expected him to refuse to answer my question.
But anyway, don't let on to your WH that you were upset by his not doing his part. Just chalk it up to his selfishness and move on.
It about killed me yesterday to have to text him and ask him for help with our wireless connection password. I half expected him to refuse to answer my question.
I wish you'd asked the question about wireless connection passwords here, first (I'm assuming you mean wireless Internet and not wireless telephony?). Resetting the password on wireless Internet is a trivial matter if you know how to do it.
I/we might have been able to spare you the trauma of contacting xWH.
For the wireless internet I am assuming you are talking about for your home computer and the wireless network in your home. I presume you are talking about the password that most wireless routers require. You can bypass this by plugging your laptop into the router to make a wired connection to your router. Call your internet service provider and tell them you need to reset the password to the wireless and they can walk you through it.
For the wireless internet I am assuming you are talking about for your home computer and the wireless network in your home. I presume you are talking about the password that most wireless routers require. You can bypass this by plugging your laptop into the router to make a wired connection to your router. Call your internet service provider and tell them you need to reset the password to the wireless and they can walk you through it.
Thanks to both of you for offering to help! I don't know why I didn't think of asking here....but it wasn't for a laptop or computer...it was for the neighbor boy's new IPod touch. I had the password, but it wouldn't work. XH told me to try the randomily generated numbers he had written down instead...that worked.
Thanks tho. You guys are great.
I don't ask him for ANYTHING though. Everytime I do I regret it. He was ok yesterday though. Texting works better if I have to discuss something.
Scotty, you need make WH the backup plan, not just have someone else standing by.
Find someone else to watch them on the days you work. Period. Then, if he wants visitation, he can confirm it himself through the IM's.
Put all the onus on him. It stinks that the kids are hurt, however that is just the expected outcome for now. They're going to be ok in the long run, because they have you.
I also don't blame you for yelling at your mom. She's a stinking wayward right now, too, and you won't be able to stomach her or have any respect for her till she owns the damage SHE is doing herself, and is repentant for it. Of course she can't bring herself to condemn what your WH is doing, or to support your fight to save your M, because she's wallowing in the same sucking swamp he's in.
Since it's not good for ~you~ to be so triggered, have as little contact with your mom as you can manage. If you need her once in a while for emergency babysitting and that works ok for you, so be it. Just don't expect anything good from her till she quits committing adultery and defogs.
Neak I have been thinking that myself. After being on here for this short time and doing all of the reading I feel bad for what I have done. I have been tolerating my Mom's affair. I acted civil to her adultery partner. I did what was easier for me and what I thought I should do. Now I know how wrong I was.
I talked to my Mom today because she told me OM was going to drive her to my house and then he was going to take me to work. I said "Nope I would rather walk" and that would take me an hour. She then said to me, "This is giving ME anxiety and stress. My stomach is in knots. I am bending over backwards to help you and I am the one who is so depressed I have had to see a therapist." After she said this stuff, I hung up.
Then I called my dad and he said "How do the boys feel about spending the day with Grandpa?" My dad watched the kids for me and the kids had fun.
I am AWARE that my WH may NEVER come home. I am not living my life like he will. I am making a life separate from him. I did what I had to so I wouldn't need him to be home and watch the kids. Honestly sometimes I do think that it would have been easier to go along with what he wanted, but it wouldn't have been right. Emotionally it would have torn me apart.
WH sent an email to DS9 and said that he had things to do today and that was why he couldn't see them. Then he said he thought I told him that I didn't work on Sundays anymore. Right now when He called DS9 he was asking about that very thing. DS9 responded with "I don't know what she told you but I do know she went to work. We dropped her off and picked her up from there."
I have told DS9 that he can talk about what happens with me and that I don't want him to lie to Daddy but he needs to tell his father that the time he talks to him should be about them NOT ME.
Opt- I know what you mean. While I was in Plan A I kept telling people that the biggest thing that was bothering me when I talked to people was that I had to keep defending what I was doing, to them. I had to explain that I was doing what I had to to have the best chance at saving my M. Many asked me if I could really take him back after all of this, and I respond with "Yes I can." I know that even if my WH does want to come back it doesn't guarantee that I will want him back by then or that we will be able to work at it but I do believe in MB concepts.
I felt really lost before I found this place and finding this website and forum I felt found. I just want to do my best. It has only been 9 days since WH moved in with OW. I am not going to get over it in that short of time of even in a few weeks/months. This is going to take TIME and I need to keep HOPE and FAITH.
I am going to read some more on here and see what else I can come up with. Even reading the beginning of my thread I can see the possibilities that have been opened up. The difference that it has made in me and my mental health.
She then said to me,"This is giving ME anxiety and stress. My stomach is in knots. I am bending over backwards to help you and I am the one who is so depressed I have had to see a therapist."
GOOD!
This means you're upright actions are causing her conflict!
I know Marshmallow. It is hard to talk to her when she gets like that though. She tries to convince me that she is not as bad as my WH because she didn't actually have sex with OM until she moved out. I told her that an affair begins when there is a reciprocation of feelings between the two parties involved. That she was having an affair on my Dad from the beginning of that regardless of when they started having sex. I also told her that I had to do what I did so I wouldn't put myself through the torture that my Dad has been experiencing in the last year and a half due to her cake eating.
During all of this, she was absolutely quiet. I have made some points throughout these past months of agony for me but I think only now the fog is slowly creeping away. She is still in the fog but she isn't happy. I am going to try to put more pressure on her relationship with POSOM and maybe that will be good. My Dad is probably too hurt to actually want my Mom back but who knows?
I was having a rough weekend and I am over that today. There is a fresh layer of snow outside and the sun is shining bright. This is going to be a GOOD day
It's tough to be on the receiving end as a child and as a spouse. Like you, I experienced the aftermath of infidelity in both ways.
My father cheated on my mother throughout their marriage. Most of it happened before I could really remember it and I had a long time where I felt I had the perfect family. He then went through a midlife crisis and snapped back to old habits and cheated on my mom, then on the OW (after he married her, the only time I ever supported infidelity), and now on his new wife, though he seems to have mended his ways after nearly dying.
Don't hold your feelings back with your mom. You are now on the receiving end of what your father went through and your mom knows this. Throwing her infidelity in her face is exactly what you need to do and don't tolerate being around OM in any way.
I set my foot down with my father and let him know that under no circumstance would I visit him with OW there and that she was never in any way welcome in my home.
He tried later to get my siblings and I to accept her, but it never happened and we repeated our boundary.
They divorced, partly because we'd never accept her, mainly because he cheated on her too.
Stand up for your father. Let her know repeatedly that you are going through what your father is going through and it is absolute hell and torture for you and the most selfish thing a parent could do to her children. The unfaithful never think of the impact on their children and don't understand that they are cheating on them as well. Infidelity is a betrayal of an entire family, not just a BS.
Just some thoughts from someone who has been through it on both ends.
As a BS I can tell you that you will eventually feel indifference towards your WH. That's when he will have truly lost you.
I would have considered reconsilitation with my WXW a full year and a half into my personal recovery. Now? No way. I wouldn't want to sentence myself to a life like the one I had, even for the kids.
They have settled into stability and have accepted the routine and have accepted our significant others. Stability really is the greatest gift you can give your kids, even if it's an imperfect scenario of split homes.
I would advise you to stabalize a visitation arrangement where he has the kids on specific days of the week and certain weekends. This stabalizes things for your kids and gives you predictability in knowing when you need to arrange to have him get the kids.
> not as bad as my WH because she didn't actually have sex with OM until she moved out
Honestly, does she expect ANYONE to believe this?
See, no matter what the TRUTH is...once she began the EA or whatever, she IMMEDIATELY became deceitful...and EVERYTHING she says from that point on is suspect.
> not as bad as my WH because she didn't actually have sex with OM until she moved out
Honestly, does she expect ANYONE to believe this?
My WH actually tried to tell my grandpa that because he didn't have sex with his OW that he didn't cheat. Never mind that he moved out, and got into her bed for some "gropy gropy."
He's just lucky he was talking through email... the old man mighta just tied him into a pretzel. LOL
It is funny how wayturds want to try to convince themselves that they are better than they are. They have to try to convince everyone that they are doing things the right way and that they are good. It is silly talk and I make sure to tell my Mom that whenever she starts talking like that. Maybe it is my way of giving HER a little dose of reality.
Wow, so much Drama in my life, I am just glad that I took myself out of WH drama. WH has emailed DSx2 twice already today. The second one said that he is at work and he misses them. He works with OW so I guess she isn't filling the void as well as he thought she would. GOOD. I know I shouldn't think about him at all but it is hard not to. It has only been 10 days since I went to Plan B so I have to retrain myself not to think about him all of the time. It will take time and I am not going to beat myself up every time I slip. For me it is best that I acknowledge it so I can make changes.
I am in a good head space today and that is the times I take advantage to make positive changes. Today the kids and I are just gonna stay home and get some organizing done. They have A LOT of toys that need to find new homes. It is a good thing and they feel good doing it. We played Battleship and had fun. We will continue to make good memories and I hope it will make up for the void in their life. I had always admired single mothers, they have to be their children's everything. I never thought I would become one.
Maybe you can help your MOm and maybe you can't. Remember the success you are working for is you alone first. Your connection to honesty and strength in relationships. I am sure you are aware of that Scot, just don't want you to get bogged down with a parents mistakes.
Glad to see that you are moving forward in all this. Take excellent care of yourself k?
Awesome job with the way you spoke to your mom, standing up against her adultery. It's the right thing to do, and may even benefit her, besides.
I would caution you against continuing to monitor the emails between the boys and WH. Right now while everything is still pretty fresh it won't have as much of an impact, but it's going to wind up being a huge drain on your Love Bank. Maybe there's someone you can trust to monitor it for you, and filter it for them.
DS9 knows the email address and password so he actually goes on there by himself and responds on his own as well. Maybe I will just do like I did for the phone calls and not be involved at all. I was doing it in thoughts that I would be protecting DS9 from something but I have to take myself out of it. Do you think that I should probably just tell DS9 that he and DS6 can read and respond to the emails themselves and not let me know what is in them unless it is something that upsets him in some way?
I know that WH probably assumes that I am the one reading them and responding so that is why he has continued to send messages through their email address. I am calling IM tonight to ask them to email him and tell him that it is unacceptable to email the boys with any info about me at all. That is what THEY are for not DS9. I am also asking them to email him with the visitation schedule again and they will ask him to contqact them if there is a problem with it. Still a learning process for me I guess.
I have spent the last three days reading the thread on Mimi_here. It is funny how much alike our sitch were/are. I see how much easier it is to go to a dark Plan B with NC so that I am not always pulled in to those feelings again and again. It is also awesome to see some of you that were giving me advice were there for her too. Thanks for it all.
Scotland, I've very much enjoyed reading your thread and seeing how you've been dealing with all this. It's been helpful for me, even though our situations are quite different.
I hope this works out for the best for you... whatever that 'best' may end up being. I'm a big fan of your self control, class, and grace under pressure. Wolf, not Cougar
I hope someone else has already chimed in - I haven't been on since Thursday. Ontario would be considered a no fault state, however, you do have one thing at your disposal that doesn't appear to exist south of the border. You can write your own agreement and it is legal. Anything that is agreed upon, including keeping the kids from OW, can be enforced. Though no court will ever order this, it can be obtained through the separation agreement. The thing is, both of you have to sign it. Generally speaking, WS's are much more likely to sign stuff away early on while they still feel guilty. This guilt will turn to anger directed at you at which point he will not agree to anything you want. Also, if he has already allowed the children to meet OW, it will be more difficult to get him to agree. I hope you did make a big stink about it (via your IMs of course). You are early in Plan B right now so he may have enough instability that you can get him to sign.
OK I'll go back and read what you ahve done so far.
Okay, so I need some advice on what to tell IM to tell WH about him sending messages through the kids email about visiting with them and things he thinks he needs to get to me.
I would like to be firm yet not break all contact with his children.
He sent them a message today and it said
"Hello boys
Please tell mommy that if she needs me to watch you guys to just ask. Of course I want to.
If she is working sunday then I want to pick you up Saturday afternoon and have you sleep over to Sunday afternoon. If mommy does not like that then I can watch you Sunday all day at your house. She can use the truck to go to work.
I love you both. Missing you both.
I'll call tonight around 730. "
He's still not getting it and this is killing me to figure out what to do. I know you guys advised me to get IM's to be harder on him. Well, he did make a move. He called them and let a message (they had already left for Christmas vaca). They said that the message was positive and that he thanked them for being IM for us. That is a positive sign but he is still is not going through them.
What should I ask them to write? I want him to STOP sending messages through the kids like that one. I mean now I look like the bad guy in their eyes because I am sure they want to see their father and would love to spend the night with him but I am not about to let them go to OW house. I can't stop him from taking them there as it is not against the law here. But I can ask him not to take them to be with her.
AHHHHHHHH I just don't know what to get IM to tell him. I can make arrangements for someone else to watch the kids for me on the weekends but we had agreed to these times and I thought he would at least stick to this part since it involved his kids.
Lessons I am learning everyday. I am currently writing a draft of something to get IM to write to him. Lemme know what your thoughts are.
this is the email draft that I will get IM to send. I am going to wait a bit to have a vet see if it is okay then I will let IM know they can send it.
Any edits are welcome but keep in mind I want him to want to talk to them so it can't be too harsh.
Thanx
"WH,
BW has asked us to pass on some messages for her.
Firstly, there may have been a misunderstanding about Sundays. BW has changed her shifts so that she starts at 10am so as not to wake the children up early when you go to pick them up. So, she had agreed to have you pick them up on Sundays at 9am and drop them off at 630pm. Also every other Saturday(starting NEXT Saturday, January 9, 2010) the same thing. If these times are not good for you please call us and let us know so we can pass on the message to BW and she can make other arrangements for a sitter.
She has also stated that you can pick up the boys on Wednesday nights from 6 until 830pm. Please call us and let us know that these times are okay or any changes you wish to make to them.
As far as sending emails to the kids. BW has asked that we tell you to stop sending messages through the kids to be passed on to her. It is not appropriate to put the boys in the middle like that and not fair. Any messages sent through the kids will be disregarded.
It has also been brought to our attention that you have exposed your children to your adultery partner. BW has made it clear to us that she finds this totally unacceptable and wrong. She would ask that you refrain from doing so in the future.
Please do not hesitate to call us and get us to pass on any messages you wish about the children or finances.
My first reaction is that the bit about the OW is too far down in the letter. Rather than appearing important, it looks like an afterthought. Unfortunately, there is a lot of information in this letter, all of which is important, so it's difficult to cut it down further. One possible way is to eliminate everything about the Sunday stuff as it is in response to the message sent through your kids which you are disregarding anyway. In fact, you can probably leave out the Wednesday stuff as well. Make the letter about (a) using the IMs only for passing information and (b) requesting that the children not be exposed to OW. Also for the latter, you may want to beef up your argument about that. As a wayward, he doesn't give a crap what you think is unacceptable and wrong. Perhaps if you changed the wording so that it's not what you think, but simply that children should not be exposed to adultery or adulterous behavior (or something along those lines where it's just a statement of a moral principal rather than YOUR moral principals - can you see the difference?).
BW has asked us to pass on some messages for her. BW has asked that we tell you to stop sending messages through the kids to be passed on to her. It is not appropriate to put the boys in the middle like that and not fair. Any messages sent through the kids will be disregarded.
BW has also learned that you have exposed your children to your adultery partner. It is not appropriate for children to be exposed to adultery or adulterous behavior. This goes against the way they have been raised. To expose them to this would be morally confusing and unfair to them. BW would ask that you refrain from doing so in the future.
Please do not hesitate to call us and get us to pass on any messages you wish about the children or finances.
Please stop sending messages through the kids to be passed on to BW. Any further attempts to relay messages directly to BW through the kids will be disregarded. If necessary, any new messages to the kids may be filtered.
Additionally, it is not appropriate for children to be exposed to adultery or adulterous behavior. This is a serious concern as it goes against the way you and BW have raised your children. To expose them to this is morally confusing and unfair to them. Please refrain from doing so in the future.
Please do not hesitate to call us and get us to pass on any messages related only to the children or finances.
Okay. I have made the changes and will send it to IM to send to him. I will also get cracking on making other arrangements for someone ELSE to watch the kids on Sunday (in case he falls through again).
What do I tell DS9 about what he should say to WH on the phone when WH tries to pass on messages?
Thank You PM. Very good advice indeed. I know that DS9 doesn't like being put in the middle and I have told him that his time talking to Daddy should be about their relationship and not about OUR relationship. This would be a better thing to tell him to do and say
You can have the IM's send a visitation calendar which you have prepared for oh, say, the next year. That alone sends a very good message, ha ha, and would break it down so it was much easier for him.
Mark out the holiday hours, dividing it up a la divorce. The IM's can let him know that the holiday hours are a proposal, and if he has a counter-offer he can let them know. They should also tell him that he should pick out a two-week period during summer vacation when he will have them full-time, and you will do the same.
If he is not able to provide adequate notice of not being able to care for them on a given day, he needs to provide a sitter. They are his responsibility during his times.
He needs to see what the rest of his life will be like if he pursues his present course. And that is just a pleasant side-effect of getting things organized the way you need them.
Okay Neak I will get right on that. I did have it all WRITTEN out but I can actually put it in Calendar form maybe it will make it EASIER for him (GRIN).
We had agreed that he would take the kids when I had to go to work so I think I am just going to leave that the way that it is. It is every Sunday and every other Saturday. He is okay with it in theory as you can tell by his email but he wants to come in HERE still. He's just NOT getting it. Well, maybe the email from the IMs will help a little.
I will make backup arrangements (not my MOM [WINK])that I can call on short notice if he should not arrive, as I can not just leave my kids home alone and go to work.
I would just ask the IMs to tell him "Scotland told us that you are trying to make arrangements through the children. Please don't do that, as the kids are getting uncomfortable. That's what we are for. We are glad to help you see your kids as much as possible, as long as you honor scotland's wishes."
Okay so kinda off topic but this is an area where WH would have been the one to handle this and the kids are feeling it.
They play on this site called Roblox. Well, wouldn't you know it is no longer working on our computer anymore. DS9 asked WH about it today an informed me that WH is going to email him and tell him what to do but I am going to be the one who has to do it. I NEED to do this on my own.
I told DS9 that he could respond to WH email tomorrow and tell him "Thanks but Mommy is going to do it without the email." Or something like that.
I need to let him see that I don't need him anymore and the computer in our house is none of WH concern anymore. AHHHHHH Fred_VA maybe you know something that can help.
What the problem is that whenever they click on the play button it tells them to install it. We already have it installed. I erased the browser history and even uninstalled and reinstalled. Keep getting the same error. Anyone out there that can help? I will be on tomorrow to see if there is any helpful solutions. Thanx
There is a link to "How do I reinstall the Roblox software?" which might be helpful.
I will be offline for a while beginning early afternoon (EST) as I will be winging my way across the Atlantic. If you don't get the answer there, please keep posting here. With all the smarts here, someone is sure to have the answer...
I told DS9 that he could respond to WH email tomorrow and tell him "Thanks but Mommy is going to do it without the email." Or something like that.
If you don't want DS9 to pass messages to you from WH, then don't pass any to WH through him either.
You. must. be. consistent.
He asked for his father's help. If he is unable to fix the problem by using his father's email, then let him deal w/ it. You don't need to read it.
You won't be able to make WH stop passing messages through your son. The way to end it, is by insisting your son passes nothing to you or through you. At nine, he can totally do this.
One thing you can try is to uninstall it. Go to "Start" then to "Control Panel", then click on a picture that says something about add or remove software.
Find the Roblox and uninstall it.
Reboot, reinstall and it will hopefully work.
I also recommend you do a search for a "free registry cleaner" and run that.
Hope this helps. I'm totally guessing on this, but this is what I'd do.
Agree with Marsh - you set the bar for being dark.
Your son can say, "You need to ask the IM's," or "Please don't ask me to say that," or any other variations on that theme. What he should not say is, "Mommy will handle that on her own." What you do is none of WH's business, no matter how much you want to make sure he knows you didn't use his help.
If you succeed in handling it on your own and your DS says something voluntarily later, that's different. Without trying to control what he says (too much - because you're certainly going to want to encourage him not to pass information), you don't want to condone the relay of info, either.
Thanx everyone. I really didn't want to encourage passing of info along I just really wanted WH to know that I wasn't going to read or follow what he was emailing. When I woke up the boys had already been awake. DS9 wrote his Dad an email saying that he understood what to do and that Mommy would take care of it. Well, I definitely can't control what he writes hehehehe.
As far as uninstalling and reinstalling I have tried that already. This is really funny coming from me because before M I was enrolled in College for computer programming. I only attended 1 year but you would think I would have remembered something hehehehe.
I will look over the page and thanx for the gentle 2x4 reminder.
DARK means DARK. It's my first slip so I guess I am doing good because it has been rough not talking to him. My dreams have even started being all about WH and that is driving me MAD. Chin up a NEW YEAR starts on Friday
Thanx Neak. It doesn't always feel like it. Sometimes I feel like I should/could give up. But I remember that those are thoughts that are born out of fear. I constantly tell myself that when I am thinking clearly it is a good idea. I always remind myself what it is that I really want. I want to be happy for me and my kids and I want to TRY. As long as I do my best(which I always tell my kids) then I did NOT fail no matter which way things turn out.
It is funny though because the days seem to be going faster, which is a blessing sometimes(watching the clock is TORTURE), but it is frightening also. I do miss him very much. That's probably why I started dreaming about him so often.
I want to simply say "THIS SUCKS." Well, off to work. The kids are sleeping at my sister's again and then I go watch them all during the day tomorrow so my sister can work overtime. Then we will ring in the NEW YEAR there and come home. Here's to hoping that 2010 will be better than 2009.
Okay. WH FINALLY went through the IMs. He sent an email but the IMs computer is down now so I don't know what he wrote. He called them too though to make sure they got it and when IM said their computer is down then he just told them. He want to come and see the kids on Friday but no set time yet. He said he would tell DS9 when he talked to him on the phone on Thursday night(New Year's). He just doen't get the no going through the kids thing. Maybe I should "accidentally" turn off my cell and unplug the answering machine again. I mean what kind of a system is this? I will go PART WAY your way and the rest of the way mine? AHHHHHH
Then he said he would pick up the kids on Sunday at 6am and bring them home for supper and to get ready for school. Our previous arrangement was for him to get them from 9 am until 630pm on Sundays. What do I do now? Maybe he didn't read that part of the Plan B letter correctly. Now that IM computer is down there is no way to send him a message. He doesn't have voicemail on his cell.
Also, he told them to ask me why there is a $54 charge from Intellius. Do I respond to that one? That was when I was trying to find her family to expose. It was Dec4. What should I say about that?
I know that I seem very needy right now but I am just trying to get this all right. This seems so unnatural to me but I know that my instincts were wrong so far.
I did Expose but the funny thing is that the Intellus was USELESS. It actually didn't get me her mother's phone number. I was heartbroken then and I later exposed to about 20 of her family members on FB a week later when they changed their privacy settings.
Sounds good though. I know I was going to tell the truth but in a way that it wouldn't be an LB.
He wants to come get them at 6 a.m. on Sunday because it is unlikely that you would be able to find someone else to be there so early for the pickup. He wants to weasel his way into the house.
Yes, have your IMs tell him that the Intellius charge was for research, and they should refer him back to the child visitation times stated on the addendum to your Plan B letter. The IMs should also tell him to let THEM know what time he wants to pick up (not "come see") the boys on Friday and they will check with you to make sure that time is convenient.
Thanx LC. I am going to contact my IM ASAP in the morning as by the time I got their message it was too late to call them tonight. I have to go to my sister's and watch her kids while she goes to work but I am going to try to get on here when I can. I am going to turn off my cell and unplug the answering machine.
I am a little mad though. I know he is trying to push me a little to try to see if I will budge. I USED to start work on Sundays at 7 am and I CHANGED my shifts to 10 so I wouldn't have to wake the kids up so early in the morning to get them off to be with their Dad. I will have to get IMs computer fixed for them so they can still send messages(WINK). Darn Technology, oh WAIT! I LIKE TECHNOLOGY hehehehehe.
Well, noone said this would be easy. Actually you all warned me it would be harder than Plan A and R would be harder still. It will be worth it someday whichever way this turns out. I am the forever optimist and I keep my Hope and Faith alive.
Your WH is definitely pushing the boundaries. He's forcing a power struggle onto you. Absolutely DO NOT give an inch or he'll take a mile. You're doing great! Keep it up!
Thank you all for the words of encouragement. I called my Ims this morning and passed on the messages that I have for WH. They are going to call him later today when he gets off of work and then they will call me at my sister's and let me know what his response is.
It is difficult in this part because I don't WANT to be difficult I HAVE to be. I asked him to follow just a few stipulations and he isn't so I have to show him a little tough love. I only feel bad because it affects the kids more. But that is because of WH actions not mine.
Let's see what happens next shall we? hehehehehehe
Okay. Maybe a porr choice of words. At least I got the padded 2x4 this time. ;D
Pep- Is there a link to your story out there somewhere? I have read about Dealan-de, mimi_here, Neak and a few others. I was just wondering about your story. You seem to have been around to help a lot of others so I was just curious
It gives me more HOPE and FAITH when I am feeling down(and having a bad case of INSOMNIA) to read the stories of ones who are in R. It is where I HOPE to be and I have FAITH that either I will be there or personally R at some point.
Thanx(Us silly Canadians with all the manners tehehehehe, feel like I say thank you too much sometimes)
Well, isn't that FUNNY. I DO remember reading that now. I have read so may people's stories I think they are becoming a BLURRRRRRRRRRR hahahaha.
Gotta go for a bit. I am with my DSx2 and their cousins at my sister's house. That is DS9, DN7, DS6, and DN5 all together and acting like siblings(which basically means ever once in a while there is WW3 in here). They are close and that is awesome but some times it can make anyone feel a bit NUTTY.
My dear sister also has 4 cats and 4 new fish(which one of the cats keeps trying to EAT).
New Year's eve with them all will be awesome and since WH never attended any New Year's celebrations with us in the past(usually ASLEEP by 11pm) then no real triggers tonight.
My Mom and Dad will be though so that should be INTERESTING.
THANX NEAK. Happy New year to everyone. Here's to hoping that 2010 is better than 2009(although if it is worse that'll REALLY suck).
So, nothing new on my front (phew) but I think my Dad is DONE with my Mom. Last night, he was acting a little weird to her(although they showed up to my sister's AT THE SAME TIME). He made little digs at her all night and after midnight he gave her the finger behind her back and then said "GOOD BYE". My parents have always said that they don't say "Good-bye" they say "See you later." because good-bye is too final(something you say to people who have passed).
It is funny too because my sister told me that she had hung up on our mom too the other day and that my mom said, "I don't know what is the matter with you two girls." To which my sister responded, "Mom, it's you not US." I guess she is feeling the pressure a bit and you know what that is okay with me.
As far as my sitch, WH talked to DS9 last night and didn't pass on any messages. There was a misunderstanding with me IMs I think though. I told my IMs that if WH told them what time he was coming to get the boys today, that he could pick them up. I think they thought I said he COULDN'T because WH told DS9 that he wanted to take them out sledding today but I said "No."
DS9 got off of the phone and asked me why I said "No." and I told him that I hadn't. Then I said that there must have been a misunderstanding but we will find something else to do anyways(maybe visit some friends).
Just talked to IM and there was a misunderstanding. My IMs are a couple and they have decided that to make sure that there was no unnecessary info past on to either WH or myself that one would talk to WH and the other one would talk to me. That had been working until My IM wrote a note and I guess the other IM couldn't read it well enough. That is how WH got the impression that I didn't want him to get the boys today. Oh well, it isn't a big deal.
Then I guess the IM told my WH to read the Plan B letter again. WH admitted he hadn't read it yet but it was in the truck so he would read it. Well, that is interesting. First I thought he HAD read the letter. Then I thought he would throw it way. Nw I know he did neither. Actually, just thought of something. He had to have read some of the letter. We have always had IMs on speed dial so he didn't know the number. He called them though so he must have read SOME of the letter before. Maybe he just hadn't read the addendum. Oh well, enough obsessing about WH today.
This explains a bit about his behaviour though. Well, we are firmly planted in Plan B now.
Feeling UP but that can change any moment. Keeping my head up and still reading the story of mimi_here (on page 26).
I just wanted to say that I am very pleased to see you "working" other people's threads, reaching out and offering your point of view/advise/encouragement.
It's very important to your growth and understanding of MB to give back much of what you've learned.
I think you will find the more you post to help others, the better your vision becomes regarding your own marriage/situation. I've always found that when I attempt to help someone else, I need to dig deeper inside myself to make sure that I'm being honest and true. In other words, I run a bullchit check on myself - it's a good process.
Thanx Pep. I have always heard that the best way to learn something is to TEACH. I do read other people's threads and help out where and when I think I can. I am no vet but I do have some personal experience and definitely have my own opinions.
I have read some of the things that I wrote and look at it as if I am giving myself that SAME advice too.
My sister said she thinks I am ADDICTED to this site and you know what I HOPE she's right. If there was anything to be addicted to, this would be the best thing. hehehehehehehe
BTW, it's nice to know that you don't hold my citizenship against me hehehehehe (although my Mom keeps trying to tell me that since SHE is American that I am too).
There was a slight "trigger" last night though. I was watching New Year's Celebrations at the falls and Glass Tiger was playing. The only song that they showed in full on TV was "Some Day". Listening to the lyrics made me a little sad but I made it through.
Wow, that was WEIRD. I was just sitting here and all of a sudden I looked at the window and thought that WH should be home soon. Not in a R way but just as if he hadn't left. My sister warned me that this would happen but WOW it catches me off gurad when it does.
The toughest New Year I had was the switch from 2006 to 2007. I cried, and cried, and cried and then went and kissed all of my kids as they slept.
I lost the family in 2006 so I understand your reaction.
But now, in 2009, I have a great gf in my life and a set visitation and I'm happy to have WXW out of my life.
So things do turn around and you will feel different about things as time goes on.
Keep your chin up.
On another note: MB is good and it is bad. MB can keep you stuck. You will get to a point in your healing where you should really step away for a bit of time before coming back.
Reading the similarity of the stories here can keep you in a place where you don't really heal.
I'm back and I read the posts on here about once or twice a day, but I use to stay on here for hours on end, combing the threads, and posting to everyone.
I was stuck in my healing by this. Just a thought.
Was it really keeping you stuck, or was it helping you reach the point where you could let go and move on to the next level of healing?
I know for me, the first couple years the A was all I could think about anyway, and spending plenty of time on MB channeled the thinking (and thinking and thinking and thinking) that I would have been doing anyway, into constructive channels.
Eventually there came I time when I didn't need MB for me, at least not for anything A-related.
Maybe there are people who are truly stuck, but I suspect that many who feel as if they got stuck were just processing their feelings till they reached a point they could progress. Healing goes through so many levels, and each must be mastered before going on to the next.
I guess there comes a point where writing about infidelity over and over again does just serve to keep you stuck. Much in the same way that my divorce care friends aren't as much a part of my life anymore.
We use to all get together and gripe about our exes. We got together a few months ago and I was getting bombarded with questions about things regarding my ex and I really had no desire to talk about her at all. I realized how far I had come.
Her and her infidelity and the loss of my family was all I could talk about for a long time and I found comfort in sharing that with others who felt and understood that kind of pain. But now I only wish to talk about things when I choose to or to share my advice with those who are going through the process right now.
Scotland is a bit of a different case since I often try to help BHs in their situation and to offer advice based on my own custody battle and experience with a WW.
Scotland, you are an interesting story and I really feel for your kids, who are currently confused out of their minds. My experience with the custody fight taught me some lessons which I can hopefully pass to you so that they can get to a place where things aren't as confusing for them.
A set visitation schedule is key for them to adjust and offers them stability which is vital to their development. Predictability also creates stability for you.
Things really settled down in terms of conflict between my ex and I once the custody stuff was decided on and resolved. My kids have adjusted and now know that weekdays are with mom, weekends with dad, and there is predictability in their lives.
THAT is your greatest goal regardless of what outcome you get.
A BS in grief wishes and wishes for their spouse to return. I have heard that the greatest threat to recovery is a BS 6 months into it since that's when we process the fact that our cheating spouse is back in our lives and we got what we wanted, but is it truly what we want?
I saw my own mother go through this with my dad. He wanted to reconcile but she was so filled with anger that even I as a kid was thinking that D might be preferable to living through years of indirect digs at my dad and constant tension between them.
The hard work is really just starting if he ever wakes up. In many ways, not that I'm endorsing it, divorce is easier since once your feelings for your spouse disappear you see them more for their flaws than their good traits and part of you wishes you had never met them or had them in your life.
The really interesting place to be is in a state of indifference towards your ex spouse. That's been interesting just for the sake of seeing where you once were and where you are today.
I don't know anything about recovery since I never experienced it, but I do know that a person goes through a healing process and I'm sure that recovery has to be really hard a few months into it as a BS. Anger must be a real best to deal with in recovery.
helpthe- you know what? the first time you posted on my thread I was a bit angry. I don't remember exactly what you said that made me so angry(I re-read what you wrote and can't remember HMMMM) but to me it felt like you were defending my WH. I looked it over a few times and felt that what you were doing was transferring your own feelings from your sitch on to me. I chose not to respond to your post and felt that it was good practice at not using AO. I knew you were trying to help and I value hearing from both sides of the coin(and that others reading my thread may need your advice). I no longer hold any anger towards what you wrote. The first time you wrote on this thread was Dec16th. That was 2 days before I asked my WH to leave. I was going through a lot of feelings of doubt and fear. Maybe that's why your post affected me then and does not seem to now.
Maybe it is because I was also transferring things from my own life on to you. There are many people in my life who believe that I shouldn't even try to save my M. That "once a cheater, always a cheater." I tell them that that isn't necessarily true and that I have come on here and found people who have made it through to the other side where I hope to be someday. I also tell them that this place will help me get there even if my WH NEVER comes out of this fog and comes home. I am an optimist. I also tend to analyze things A LOT. I feel like that is the only way to make MYSELF better.
I have this feeling that your WXW(although as has been pointed out before, if she is an X she is no longer W) did not handle the visitations with your children as you had hoped and you felt extreme pain from that. My WH is the wayward one and although I know he loves our sons very much, he is also very foggy. He would leave our home to hang out with her. He would take vacation days, and spend them with her. He would send them upstairs to play so he could call her without interruption(I was taping him while I was at work). These are actions of a Wayward and he was not thinking like he normally did. Even now, he wrote them an email 3 days ago apologizing for not calling them because he was playing PSP and missed the time.
Don't get me wrong, my WH LOVES our boys very much but right now his addiction and his selfish behaviours to get his fix is his number one priority. On Sunday, he was supposed to visit with them and said that he had something else to do. Well, IMHO if he really missed them, he would have JUMPED at any opportunity to visit with them, but he had seen them 2 days in a row(laugh).
He was an AMAZING Daddy. He played with them whenever he could and he always tucked them in to bed. They were his world and they knew it. Now he is a part-time father. Not just by the amount of time he spends with them but also because of the quality of that time and what he does with them. My hopes is that will change but if not, I am going to be here to pick up the slack.
In the beginning I was the one saying, "Boys do you want to call Daddy?" "How about an email?" and then I realized that I have always done that for him. I had been the one who nudged them together because I didn't want my kids to miss out and I didn't want my WH to regret not spending enough time with our kids. It is not my responsibility any more. He doesn't get that right any more since he decided to leave me. My boys will know that Mommy is always going to be there for them and I am going to fill in the gaps left behind by his departure(although I can never fully replace him in their eyes).
As far as my addiction to this place, I am okay with it. I said that I analyze things and try to learn to make myself in to a different person. I am interested in the workings of the world and what makes people tick. This place is a HEALTHY addiction in my POV. I am learning and growing and helping others. It makes me feel better about who I am and who I want to become. It is part of my Plan B to work on myself and in a strange way, this is part of it.
Thanx again for your POV helpthelostdads, people need both sides of the coin to understand and grow.
Was it really keeping you stuck, or was it helping you reach the point where you could let go and move on to the next level of healing?
I know for me, the first couple years the A was all I could think about anyway, and spending plenty of time on MB channeled the thinking (and thinking and thinking and thinking) that I would have been doing anyway, into constructive channels.
Eventually there came I time when I didn't need MB for me, at least not for anything A-related.
Maybe there are people who are truly stuck, but I suspect that many who feel as if they got stuck were just processing their feelings till they reached a point they could progress. Healing goes through so many levels, and each must be mastered before going on to the next.
I agree about keeping the healthy thinking going as Neak says and as Scotland says also its a good adiction. HTLDs I understand what you are saying about holding on and how time heals wounds. I pray you are healing.
Giving up MB isn't something in the cards right now for you and may never be. I merely offered that you may need a break down the road in your healing. There are some legends from these boards who no longer post very often, but are still held in high regard (chrisner and mortarman come to mind).
My advice to you is certainly based on my own experience, but I merely wish to focus some attention to the plight of the kids. I know that it's tough to make decisions about them in all of this or keep a level head. Hind sight has provided me with perspective to see some of the mistakes I and my ex made.
The other big message I wanted to pass to you is simply that you will be ok no matter what the outcome of your ordeal. Divorce stinks, if it goes down that path, but there is life after it.
Finally, I read on here that a WXW is a term for an XW who is still wayward. Considering it's been 4 years and no acknowledgement over what's was done, the extent of it, and the circumstances of how it was done (multiple men while I was deployed), followed by trying to get me out of the kids' lives, then yes, she's still wayward.
On another note: MB is good and it is bad. MB can keep you stuck. You will get to a point in your healing where you should really step away for a bit of time before coming back. .
I think this might have been your experience, but in my experience, helping others kept my mind off my own misery and helped my healing. If I am helping others then I am not so focused on SELF, but am focused on helping others. In the process of helping others, I learned this program inside and out and was able to use those learnings to create a great marriage.
There is a huge difference, IMO, in coming here and helping others and talking your own problem to death. The latter can be destructive and unproductive, IMO. I see that folks who do the latter really DO stay stuck.
Reading the stories of others doesn't make me SAD, it makes me GLAD because I see the opportunity and know they are in the right place. I view this as a place of HOPE and OPPORTUNITY, not a place of sadness and loss. The loss has already taken place, this place helps them RECOVER the loss. When you see such success stories day after day, it is very fulfilling.
Reading the stories of others doesn't make me SAD, it makes me GLAD because I see the opportunity and know they are in the right place. I view this as a place of HOPE and OPPORTUNITY, not a place of sadness and loss. The loss has already taken place, this place helps them RECOVER the loss. When you see such success stories day after day, it is very fulfilling.
I feel like I am on a battlefield and even though I am not a skilled surgeon I can stop some of the bleeding if I instill hope for the people interested in personal growth..
I am assuming of course that marriage is an institution that gives us a chance to grow. At least thats how I understand it.
I understand what you are saying HTLD. I know that there may come a time when I may want to and even NEED to step back from here but for right now I am happy doing what I am. I feel like there is a lot to learn about marriage, relationships and people through these boards. Even if my sitch turns out to end in a Plan D, then I will deal with that at that time, and I am sure there will be plenty of help on here as well. I read the posts to see that my sitch isn't all that special.
Before I found MB, I had been researching on the internet on what to do and I felt very HOPELESS. Then came that fateful day when I googled "How to SURVIVE an affair." This site was at the TOP that day. It felt like my prayers had been answered. THIS was the place to help me. I know that it may NOT turn out the way I hope but I also know that either way I WILL BE OKAY. I woke up this morning with the song "I WILL SURVIVE." running through my head. My co-workers have commented that they are starting to see a little bit of me returning. I am not as sad as I was and for me that's better. I am discovering myself more and I am making plans for me first. I am choosing to LIVE my life.
Helping others is something I have always liked about myself and I have always been taught that the best way to learn something is to teach it. I am helping whenever I can with whomever I can because I remember what it felt like when that first person reached out there hand to help me and I took it. Without the people who replied to me in some of my darkest hours I would not be where I am in my process today.
Now as far as what is going on in my sitch. This is what happened today. WH was coming to get the kids at 9am. He called DS9 at 850 and said he was on his way. Then DS9 looked at me and said "OK." and then hung up
DS9 said, "Mommy I know the answer will be no. And daddy knows the answer will be no." I said, "DS9 just tell me." and he said "Daddy wants to know if you want a ride to work." I said, "Buddy you know Daddy can't pass messages." Then WH was here. He stayed outside for a while. The kids got ready and left. I went outside and noticed WH had shoveled the walkway. I actually missed my bus and started walking to work in a BLIZZARD. I walked for 1/2 an hour and then decided to call a cab. I am so stubborn hehehehehehe.
It made me feel GOOD though. I KNOW I don't need anyone I CAN DO THIS.
It is the same feeling that I had when I was 20 and didn't talk to my parents for a year and realized that I could make it on my own(although I had WH to lean on). I guess I had to realize that I don't NEED ANYONE(except you guys right now hehehehehe)
your doing awesome..... a true inspiration for everyone. Your personal growth is doing quite well at this stage. Scot you just have to keep saying you know you can you know you can.... just like the little engine that could.... hehe
Thank You. That is what I am saying over and over again. I can't believe how strong I am becoming on my own. I miss WH terribly but it is not the be all and end all of my existence. Instead I am trying to grow in to a person I can be truly happy to be. I thought I needed to recapture the strength I had before, but now I realize that it isn't the same as before, it is DIFFERENT and in so, it is BETTER.
My strength before I had children was all out of insecurities and "pretending". The strength I am finding now is REAL and EMPOWERING. I do have bad moments where I think about what I want and what I am doing, but then I remember that I felt that way in Plan A too but I have a time limit. Until that time limit is reached, I STICK WITH PLAN.
Would it have been easier to get a ride? Of course it would. Would it have taught me anything? Nope. It would have taught my WH that my boundaries are easily moved and it would have taught my children that affairs have no consequences. They may have even started accepting this fantasy as a REALITY and that would have done a disservice to the WORLD.
AHHHHHHH a little venting has to be done right now. Putting the kids to bed and DS9 says, "daddy said that he is going to ask IMs about keeping us over on Saturday night because it is too much gas to come back and forth Saturday and then Sunday." I replied, although I really shouldn't have. I said, "Hunny that isn't ok with me because I don't want you sleeping in OW house. If Daddy had some place else to take you I would be okay with it.
That is not the only feelings I am feeling though. I am feeling that it wasn't a problem how far away she lived when he went to her house to carry on the affair all these months/years. He never had a problem with the traveling time and money it was costing US then. The feelings and knowledge that my children would sleep in that POSOW's house drives me BATTY.
I of course am going to tell the IMs that this is not okay with me. I don't know if WH knows this or not but he COULD do it. We don't have a custody arrangement signed yet so he really could. But what could I do? I could also keep them the next time he is supposed to get them and that would hurt who? the kids.
Your DS needs to know that it's NOT OK with you to expose him to the skank. Even if his dad ends up doing just that, he needs to hear from the sane parent in his life that taking kids around trampy garden utensils is wrong.
And his talking to you was probably much less about carrying messages than DS feeling a sick lump in his gut telling him it would be horrible, and hoping to have that validated by you.
I also think you did well. You listened and responded to his feelings and told him, as a parent, why you were NOT ok with that situation. If you had gone into "well he certainly didn't have problems with the gas money all the other times he was seeing OW..."....well THAT would have been inappropriate. But you knew that which is why you didn't go there. Instead, you kept it focused on son's question and your very proper parental response.
You did great! You separated the issue about staying over night with their father - which in a son's eyes is great - to staying over night with OW. They will see clearly that you don't object to them being with their father, only her.
Thanx. I knew that I responded correctly. This morning I woke up and I was still mad about it. I am securely in MAD today. I know this is part of it so it doesn't scare me. I have been walking around the house yelling at things(don't worry the kids are at school). I even flicked the picture of WH that I have on my fridge.
It's the little things that drive me crazy and make me angry. That's why it is good that I don't communicate with him so I don't have to deal with it daily.
I am a tiny bit glad that WH told DS9 and DS9 told me so that I had a heads up and could think of my response to IMs without giving them any mad talk.
I am trying very hard not to talk to them about the feelings behind my decisions so they won't be involved in the drama of it.
MAD MAD MAD day today so I am gonna have to find something to do to make me happier. It is still SNOWING outside today and will be until Wednesday. There has already been a foot and a half just yesterday. Maybe I will take my camera out and get some good winter pictures. The kids are loving it too. OHHHHH Winter in Canada
Okay so I figured out the response that I am going to give the Ims about the kids sleeping over on Saturday night.
I am going to say, "I am NOT okay with them spending the night at OW house. If there was some other place he could take them where they weren't exposed to OW then I would be okay with it. I also will tell them that I could find a sitter to take the children on Saturday so he only has to make the one trip."
First off let me tell you I am in wonder of your strength during Plan B. I haven't chimed in much because Plan B isn't my specialty, but you are doing GREAT!!
I wouldn't suggest finding a babysitter though. It is good to reiterate your boundaries on exposing the kids to OW, but it is not your job to make this any easier on him. Let HIM find an alternative solution. This is how it would be in a divorce. He'll figure it out.....he's a big boy, even if he's a foggy one....
Keep plugging along sweetie. You are doing marvelous!!!
It doesn't always feel like I am doing marvelous. I read other people's threads(older ones and people who went through this too) and I see how some of them had contact to their WS. I am trying my best to keep absolutely dark and it is what part of Plan B is. There are times where it would be easier to just talk to WH and tell him the things that are bugging me about what he is doing but that be a MAJOR LB and would not be good at all. That's what keeps me DARK AS NIGHT. I can't trust myself to not LB him with what I am feeling right now.
I know that there would be a chance that if I did NOTHING(not follow MB) that we could have gotten back together. We would not have been happy and eventually one of us would have decided that this wasn't working anymore. But with MB I know that there is a chance. It might be a slim chance and it is GOING to be HARD WORK if we get there. I just want to be able to say that I DID MY BEST.
I hate when I feel like this but I know that it is part of the process. I realize that I feel like this right after I hear anything about WH or he does something or says something that makes it harder on me. I guess this is teaching me about patience and how not to LB. I am going to buy the LB book and read that too. I need to know as much about who I am and who I want to be to be happy. Looking inside myself, I know that I am NOT a bad person. There are things that I don't know about how to be who I want so I have to learn as much as I can. Either way I will learn from this and I WILL BE BETTER.
Two things, Scotland, from Neak's Maternal Unit: (1) I'm glad somebody else already said my first reaction to the transportation "problem"--if he wants to have them brought to him, you shouldn't be the one footing the expense of it. I'm pretty much positive that he'd never pay it for you, if the situation was reversed. (2) Staying dark to avoid LBs is an excellent idea. It's the main reason I severely limit my interactions with my oldest adopted grandson (16 years and 2 days old). If you've read Neak's story, I'm pretty sure it contained at least a small part of what this family has undergone due to the molestation/abuse of the adoptees (while they were still in the care of their biological mother), and how that spilled over into Neak's family when her own children were molested by 2 of their cousins. I'd do a full Plan B on that kid if I could, but it's not possible, so I just try to ignore him whenever possible. I know that once I get started, turning off my "spigot" will be nearly impossible, and I will never be able to take back what I've said in the heat of anger. So I do my best to keep quiet and leave the talking to Neaksis, who is MUCH better at dealing with his pathology than I am. You are very wise to keep quiet and out of conversations where your risk of losing control is high.
Remember how long it took Sue to want to leave Greg and return to her husband in the book "Surviving An Affair"? Hint: It never happened except for a couple of false recoveries. Greg had to dump her first.
Be strong. Take things one day at a time. Stick to your plan. Be open to the possibility of reconciliation, but if it happens know that it might be because OW dumped WH, even if he might spin it as the other way around. And there's a better-than-even chance he'll never come back.
No matter what, stick to your plan. It's your best chance, and you'll come out OK in the end: either reconciled with your spouse, or alone yet unafraid and with no lingering remorse over a hasty divorce.
Day 17 turned out to be a pretty low day. First I woke up ANGRY and now I am going to bed SAD. The "what ifs" keep crawling in to my head today. I guess I turned the anger into sad. I hope tomorrow I can turn the sad into not sad. That is my biggest expectation for myself tomorrow...NOT SAD. I can hope I will get more but NOT SAD will be better than today.
I watched a motivational speaker on TV today and a lot of what he was talking about seemed to resonate with me. It was really an eye opening experience on how to treat people in life. It was aimed at workplace but he said that you could use it in every kind of relationship in your life. I think parts of it is what made me think and made me a little sad.
Well, I am going to get some sleep so I can feel better tomorrow.
Well, I have been in plan B for a little over three months now and finally had MY first not sad day today.
I am hoping it is the start of a trend and look forward to not having the sad moments so constantly. They really do suck BUT remind us that we are human and loving and alive...so look at the bright side while you are in them.
Anger, sadness, grief, fear are all natural human responses to what betrayed spouses go through. They show we care.
That is a good thing.
Planning a b-day party will be a good activity for you to keep you forced to look outward from yourself and to live authentically for your child.
My new nickname for plan B is plan boundaries for the beautiful betrayed. (It works for me.)
When my son turned 7 (he's 23 now) we had a fort-building-squirt-gun-water-ballon party. It was fantastic. It was chaos. It was messy. It was boy-heaven. But, we don't live in cold Canada or insanely cold MONTANA.
Neak, did you watch the Rose Parade and get all warm and toasty looking at our blue skies?
However I do keep an eye on the left coast weather forecasts, and am awestruck by the temperatures. When I see 57, my brain has a hard time understanding that number in anything but below zero.
Any more, I get ALL excited when we get clear up to 20. It's gotten so bad I don't even look at the thermometer when I go outside. I used to check every single time. "Oooooooh, -20 this time! Oooooooooh, all the way up to -31 this time!!!!!!!!!"
The only reason I still keep an eye on the wind chill is so I can give even sterner warnings to the Dervish when it gets really bad. DO YOU WANT YOUR EAR TO FALL OFF YOUNG MAN???????
Eventually, even the wildest, craziest thing can become commonplace and even acceptable - a fine metaphor for why Plan B is so important.
Geez was that a HINT Neak? Maybe you should put a S in front of your name cuz You are a SNEAK hehehehe.
Pep- I am waiting for Marshmallow to come and say something about your launcher video hehehehe.
DS9 decided we were having a stay at home for mental health day and I agreed. We won't have too many of these for sure but I understood what he was feeling like. He has a bad head cold and has been having a rough time sleeping. That makes my DS's not so Dear and they become really CRANKY. Cuddle up on the couch under blankets and watch the Disney channel, do crafts and drink hot chocolate. Bed EARLY tonight though so we are refreshed for the morning. WOHOOOOHOOOO.
Dealan- Not only do people willingly live in those places we even GO OUTSIDE in it. I have to figure out how to upload my pictures to my computer and then I will post some of those for you as you asked. There is so much snow out already and they are calling for it to snow until Sunday. Just hope we don't get the dreaded January thaw too quickly or we will all be FLOODED.
I'll take my 105+ weather EVERYDAY over one day of sub zero.
Seriously. I'd never warm up. It was in the 40s last night and even with the heater, my pjs, sheets, 3 comforters and two blankies my feet NEVER got all the way warm. It was in the 30s this morning with frost on the car. WTHeck? I don't even OWN an ice scraper. I had to sit in the car till the ice melted. (the kids liked it...thought my teeth chattering was funny or sumptin)
It gets colder here in February. Most of the snow we get in a winter comes in February and March so we aren't out of the woods yet, actually we are just beginning. In January we typically get a few days where it is above freezing. That is our January THAW. Then it comes all over again. At least we didn't get the freezing rain yet because walking the kids to school on ice rinks for streets tends to be funny for them but not for me.
DS6 is excited about planning his Bday party. We were actually going to do something else instead but with no car at home we will do the party. I think he will have more fun anyways.
DS6 is excited about planning his Bday party. We were actually going to do something else instead but with no car at home we will do the party. I think he will have more fun anyways.
AHHHHHH success on the computer front. I figured out what it was in a dream I had last night. My WH didn't want me to install another keylogger so he made it so only his profile could install things. I went on to his profile and installed the game and now the kids think I am their HERO. It is funny how such a small thing can make them soooooooooooooo HAPPY.
I knew I would and could do it on my own. I guess I just needed my subconscious to figure it out for me. Now if only it would stop showing me my WH to me over and over again. I dream about him EVERY NIGHT. It is mostly him coming home and seeming remorseful. The one where I was beating up POSOW was a good way for me to release my anger. Not just what I was doing in it but because of what she said to me. She said that what they have is fake and what WH and I have was built on REAL. I know it is what I want to hear but it did make me feel good.
AHHHH Pep- did you have to make my face leak. hehehehehe
I figured out DS9s IPOD too. It was the SAME issue. I am SMART hahahahahaha. Okay I need to calm down or I won't be able to leave my house because my head will be too big to fit through the door. hahahahahaha
Be sure you play the mummy game! It's a hoot! My 6-yr old granddaughter played it at her BD party. You take rolls of toliet paper (or crepe paper) and divide up into teams. One person on each team is designated as the "mummy". Each team races to see who can use up their whole roll first on wrapping the mummy. It's a lot of fun and makes for great pictures!
Do you work? Do you dream about work? I dream of my job often. My WH and children aren't part of that and I still dream about it because it is a part of my life.
I am just saddened by my dreams lately because they are my wishes and when I wake up, they weren't real and sometimes it feels like it won't happen. I am only 18 days in to an intended long Plan B so I am keeping up hope and having FAITH. I am using this time to make decisions on my own about my life. I am learning things about relationships and people. I am learning how to have a good family and relationship with my kids, with or without my WH. I need to give them the best possible life and help them become the best adults possible.
I have done a good job so far and I intend on not dropping the ball on that. I am also trying to figure out what I want to "BE" when I grow up hehehehehe LOL
I figured out DS9s IPOD too. It was the SAME issue. I am SMART hahahahahaha. Okay I need to calm down or I won't be able to leave my house because my head will be too big to fit through the door. hahahahahaha
Don't forget to ice your arm after you twisted it patting yourself on the back..
Nope no VACA for me. I just took some time off of the computer all together and there really was nothing new to write about. WH didn't call IMs about having the kids sleep over so I don't even have to deal with that. Nothing else to report. Day 21 went without incident and hopefully day 22 will as well.
Dark Plan B still going strong. It is hard not communicating in any way but I am doing what is best for me. Still dreaming about WH every night. Waking up at 5 am with dreams. Then I try to go back to sleep only dreaming some more.
Reading SAA for the 3rd time and absorbing as much as I can. Started going through a little bit more anger. Doubts creep in but I make sure I remind myself what I want to accomplish.
There's my update. Don't ever worry if I don't post for a while. Usually just means that I have nothing of any real significance to write about. I do lurk and check though.
No one here has mentioned a January thaw. I'm not sure if there is one. However, they are predicting a high of 31 for us on Tuesday, unheard-of warmth since October. That's just over 60 degrees more than it was yesterday or day before. (Can't remember which, maybe even both lol.)
Scotty, don't let those dreams get to you. Perfectly normal. I probably would've had more dreams during the A if I'd slept. I was SO looking forward to a nice, long rest during Plan B. When you get to R, you'll be grateful for this time of respite.
Also, don't be afraid to post even when nothing is happening. Tell jokes or funny stories, and amuse yourself to pass the time. A "What Should Scotty Be When She Grows Up?" competition might be fun.
I nominate you for astronaut - you're already an expert at dealing with aliens.
Well January thaw is a temporary rise in the temperature that "thaws" some of the ice. Its funny cuz sometimes all you see is the ice flow a bit. Its still cold as heck LOL.
Resume. Hmmmmmm let's see. I went to one year of university for engineering but I didn't like it. Then I went to one year of computer programming(which I loved but we ran out of money so I dropped out). Got married. Worked at Wendy's. Got pregnant. Worked at Wendy's for 6 more months. Stay at home Mom for 4 years. Now I have been working at a MAJOR retailer for 4 1/2 years. So no education past HS, small jobs since. I didn't realize until a couple of years ago that I really LOVE to train/teach people. Any suggestions now? hehehehehehehe
I am looking in to career counseling. I need to figure out what I want to do with my life that is fulfilling.
I am looking in to career counseling. I need to figure out what I want to do with my life that is fulfilling.
You'n me both, hon. I've been in advertising sales my whole life until I got sick, and I hate sales. I want to keep writing my novels, d@mnit! But I need to find something I can do that will work with my health issues AND pay the bills. Tall order.
I've thought about becoming a counselor too. From what I've seen you could be great at it!
Ask your company if they help pay for training or university. It it's a major retailer, they should. You may have to be working full time, though. First see if your own company will train you to be a trainer. If not, look for university classes in your area and go while still working. That way you're building up tenure at your job and training too.
AHHHHHH I hate this feeling sometimes. The kids were brought home 15 minutes late, which I totally don't mind. I said, "Hey you guys were a little late today." DS9 said, "We were having too much fun we didn't want to leave." Talk about breaking my heart. They were at OW house(of course since WH lives there) and they were playing with her D11. WH even cooked dinner again which is something that he NEVER liked to do here. AHHHHHHHH.
Even yesterday WH took the sledding and then to the movies. I would have to beg him to do those things with the kids when he lived here and he is doing these things on his own. Makes me crazy sometimes. Oh well, 6 days with my boys and I get my new fridge on Friday(present from my sister and mom).
Complaining done for now. HEHEHEHEHE
I am holding my informal survey on my FB account to see what people think I should be when I grow up.
. I would have to beg him to do those things with the kids when he lived here and he is doing these things on his own. Makes me crazy sometimes...
((((Scotland))))),
I know this feeling well. I went through this same thing. It helped me to keep it in perspective of the kids. I am sure they enjoyed the time....
and don't be surprised if this is all "short-term". Waywards will do things out of the norm in order to ease their conscience......
How was YOUR time away from the kiddo's??....
I hated saying it, but I truly loved my time away. Oh sure I missed them, but when you are the only one holding the fort, those breaks become something you can cherish. And as the only one there, don't feel guilty about it.....its okay to want some "me" time...
I have done so much technical stuff in my day. My dad was a carpenter/plumber/farmer jack of all trades. old school farmboy. had to work at 13 if he wanted shoes. He also wa a taskmaster supreme. So I learned everything young and was working eagerly as soon as I could but..
I was also a avid reader and had imagination so although I have aptitude for tech crap I wanted to write/teach/counsel/help ppl at a different level. I would have made a good cop I think or a military guy.
So when I grow up I want to be a couselor of some kind also, maybe I can help some kids get into a trade or help someone in other ways. That will remain to be seen but it doesn't matter as long as I pull my weight. There areno small jobs just small people but if I can do something well I want to do that because its what God would want. Ya know?
Not2fun-well I didn't have that much fun time as I am at work whenever he has the kids. I do get alone time during the day though because they go to school full day.
As far as the career thing goes, I have been trying to figure it out for a few years now. I know I want to do something meaningful with myself. I want to help people. I enjoy teaching and training people. I want to make a difference even if it is a difference in a small way and even if the person doesn't know it was me. Funny though because the first thing that one of my friends responded on FB was Astronaut too. I thought that was hilarious.
I know that WH is doing things that he normally wouldn't do because he only sees them 6 days a month. He probably feels guilty and is doing the typical thing of filling up their days with fun things to assuage them so he will feel less guilty.
On my side, I get to be the one that says, "get in the shower." as soon as they got home. Then I tell them to do their homework, get ready for school and clean up after themselves. He gets to be "fun guy" and I get to be MOM. I know that they will know that I love them and that one of us had to do these things, but right now it sucks for me. Oh well, I am also the one who has made family games night and movie night with them. I get to make the day to day memories that will last a lifetime.
I think I was just more upset because WH took OW and her daughter with them too. It's like he is trying to make them one big happy family and that is what kills me because they are supposed to be part of my family not OW.
Oh well, it's a new day. Family games night tonight. Probably more Battleship and Connect 4x4. Gotta get the kids off to school now, have a GREAT day.
Do you know if OW gets any $$$ assistance from the government? If she does, the government usually wants to know when a male "partner" moves into the home as a functioning Dad. Also, if she is getting, or if she is going to get alimony, WH living with her should affect that as well.
Don't do anything just yet, but look into the laws where you live.
Pep-I know that she was getting subsidy for her daughter's day care but she leaves her home alone now so I think she doesn't get anything but I will definitely look in to that.
SHMI-LOVE that one. A MUSHROOM.
The kids love playing with OW daughter. I am mad all around about that because I have never believed that you should introduce someone new to your kids for a long time in case it doesn't work out. OW and WH used to say the same things pre-A. Shows how their values change when they are in the fog. Oh well. Not gonna dwell on those things. Spending a nice relaxing day at home catching up on TV watching, FB apps and housework. Looking up things I can do with the rest of my life and not having to think about how it will affect anyone else, except my kids of course.
For 2 mornings I have woken up with a song running through my head(actually only this part over and over again) "Dreams last for so long, even after you're gone. I know, you love me and soon I know you will see, you were meant for me and I was meant for you." I haven't heard that song in a really long time. I don't even know who sings it. Songs always "pop" into my head depending on my mood. I think this one did because of all of the dreams I have been having.
I liked during Plan A when I had this one running through my head(It's by Bif Naked)"I love myself today. Not like yesterday. I'm cool, I'm calm, It's gonna be okay. Uh huh. I love myself today. Not like yesterday. Take another look at me now. Cuz it's your last look, your last look FOREVER."
LOL I did love to roller skate when I was younger and I was pretty darn good at it too. I don't know that they pay people to do that anymore though. HAHAHAHAHAHA
When you go to write a reply - hit "full reply" do not go to the immediate "quick reply" box. Then, immediately above the white box where you would type stuff ... you will notice a smiley face icon
like this ~~~> if you click on that, you'll see all the smilies you can use
Next to that is a where you can post a link (LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE CHAIN) if you click on that you'll need the URL to put in there (I usually just paste a link I've already copied) then you will be asked to give it a name , such as "link" or "look at this mess' ... whatever you like
You can always look at "preview my post" to make sure you put the right link before you finally post it.
NEXT TO THAT IS A LETTER ... I NEVER USE THIS.
To the right of the letter is a funny looking thing that I think is supposed to be a frame. For posting images. I used my photobucket images.
To the right of that is the "media tag". If you copied the URL for something like a You Tube video . you choose You Tube and paste the URL.
My ex never would go camping although I wanted to very much. Then he and OW had a tent set up "drying out" in their yard once when I went to pick up the kids. Totally made me angry. He did several things like this. It's quite difficult not to feel hurt - I distinctly remember thinking "you'll fall all over yourself making HER happy, when I just was never worth the effort" and it hurt so badly.
But... they got married and then within 5 years were divorced.
So don't be fooled by appearances. It's most likely an act to "do better" and assuage his guilt in a misdirected way.
You enjoyed programming classes and you like to teach... get a book on PHP/MySQL, do a couple of projects (for yourself is fine, just get them under your belt) and then bid on jobs at dice.com. Then when you have some experience, teach at the local tech school.
I had a grandmother who did that and she loved her job. I respect those people fully. I have a VERY weak stomach. Held my breath for 6 years while changing diapers(that's of both kids cuz they were both 3 before they were trained). Keep them coming though cuz I need some ideas. My friends on FB said things like "Princess", "playgirl millionaire", "Lou Lou the psychic" "Bank Robber" "Disco Dancer" I really have some smart A$$ friends in Real life don't I? Maybe I should pick my friends better hahahaha.
Of course I am gonna keep my friends they make me laugh when I need it. Today I am okay. Had a bit of a cry and may again.
Had a good family games night with the boys last night. DS9 wanted us to play Life so we did. It is a new game of life called twists and turns and it is quite easy because You use a credit card instead of money. It was funny because you start with a skateboard and then you can buy cars. I bought an economy car and DS9 bought the luxury car. He also made a comment about when it told him to get married that he didn't have a house yet. It was a riot. I won the first game and then we played again and DS9 won. It really was a good time.
"out of the mouths of babes." as the saying goes. Last night, DSx2 were sitting next to me after their showers and were all cuddled up under a blanket. I said, "What a lucky mommy I am to have such a wonderful family." To which DS9 responded, "But this family is not a lucky family at all, Mommy because Daddy left." I was totally heartbroken that he would say that but I calmly responded, "Well, you still have Daddy, he just doesn't live with us anymore. You will always have your brother and I though, and we are still a family." I was so saddened. DS9 was Daddy's little boy and he is really attached to him and I think it kills him not to have his Daddy everyday.
He of course doesn't ever say any of these things to WH because he wants to spare his feelings and since they only get 6 days a month together and talk for about 5-10 minutes a day, I don't think he wants to spend his time telling him bad things.
Well, I just have to keep reiterating the fact that I am here for them and that I am not going anywhere. I have to keep making memories and a life for them that is full. It is hard but I can do it.
I was reading Pep's notable posts and I LAUGHED so hard at this one.
Loco Wisdom
> 1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, > for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me either. Just > pretty much > leave me the ****** alone. > > 2. It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your > neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it. > > 3. Sex is like air-it's not important unless you aren't getting any. > > 4. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of > car payments. > > 5. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. > That way, when you criticize them, you're at least mile away, > and you have their shoes. > > 6. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. > > 7. Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, > and he will sit in your boat and drink your beer all day. > > 8. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was > worth it. > > 9. Don't worry-It only seems kinky the first time. > > 10. There are two theories about arguing with women/men. Neither one > works. > > 11. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
Hi Scotland! On the 'what you wanna be when you grow up' thing .......... have you ever gone to the Women's Employment Centre? I've had friends go there, it's free, you can fill out career assessment forms and they will help guide you towards a goal. Just a thought.
Well, update for day 27. Today is a not so good day. Last night I did have a good talk with my mom though. She is still foggy but I think that some of the things I am saying is getting through. I hadn't talked to her since New Year's and she had thought that I was mad at her. I told her that I just couldn't deal with her thoughts at that moment because it wasn't helping me at all. She keeps making comparisons to how my WH has no reasons not to come home. She has what she perceives as valid reasons but she doesn't think that my WH should be gone. I explained to her that he feels very valid in his thinking just as she does. He wasn't getting certain ENs met and that was enough to lead him in to the fog.
I know that some of what I said made it's way through but not a lot. I am not really concerned with her sitch right now anyways. I am focusing on my DS6 bday which is next Thursday.
I think the reason I am having a not so good day today is because of all of the Valentine's Day stuff coming out. My WH and I had our first date 18 years ago on Valentine's Day and we became officially BF and GF on February 20th. This is this first Valentine's Day that I will be alone since I was 15. I know that it is a silly thought but I am ANGRY at him because although I will be ALONE he will NOT. I do have to work that day and he will have the kids until 630pm but I am sure that he will be going out later with OW. Oh well, I will do something special for the kids. Maybe I will bake some cookies in heart shapes and I will let them stay up later and watch a movie or something. The next day is a holiday here called, FAMILY DAY, so there will be no school.
That is the end of Day 27 update. I will make it but it seems to be going in SLOW motion now.
WOW that would be an EVIL plan. The only problem that I see with it is that WH could say that it is my time so I should be the one to find a sitter. Your response did give me a bit of a laugh though so it was worth it.
WH didn't call the kids last night, and this morning they checked their email because if his cell phone dies he will email them instead. NO EMAIL EITHER. DS9 told me that he was angry about that. He is disappointed that WH didn't call him. Well, all I did was tell DS9 that he can tell WH about his disappointment the next time he talks to him if he wants. I am only mad because it hurts my kids but I expect it to happen more and more often. I don't care what his reason is, it hurt our DS9.
Oh well, Day 28 is going to be a good one because I am getting a new fridge today. It is crazy DS9 is super excited about us getting a new fridge.
Unfortunately, this is exactly what happens with 90% of fathers who leave. Every day, then every other day, then every week, maybe every month...so sad that they don't realize the most important thing in their life is what they're walking away from.
That was the plan that I was going to have. I thought maybe it could be my Mom because she told me yesterday that she can't seem to celebrate Valentine's day with OM because it is her anniversary with my Dad. She said last year she went to a concert with my Dad. I so don't want to just get little crumbs like my Dad gets. I want all or nothing. It is hard to do a dark Plan B(especially because an errant thought crept in to my head on the weekend, What if WH dies and the last memory I have of him is the day I asked him to move out?).
I just got my new fridge and I LOVE IT. My sister and Mom bought it for me as my Birthday/Christmas present. I am a little sad because I am excited about it and in the past I would have shared this with WH. Building a life with someone else really sucks when that someone else leaves. AHHHHHH.
Still moving on trying to make my life better for me and my boys. If WH comes back in to it, great. If not we will make it and be great too.
You are doing great, Scot...everything you are going through many of us went through during Plan B too, so remember that you are not alone...lots of us have been there.
Thanx. I do know that many of you have been through it. I write it out because for me it is therapeutic and I also believe that I can help some people.
Last night DS9 was on a sleepover. I asked him if he wanted to bring the cell phone with him in case WH called him. He said nope and left. It didn't matter anyways because WH did not call again. He wrote an email with an excuse about how his phone was on the charger. LAME EXCUSE. There are pay phones. Then he writes how he will call them some time during the day or night. Geez really? Well, if he calls while DS9 is still at his friend's house I guess no one will answer. It makes me a little mad because he expects them to be there for him when he feels like it. I really want to turn off my phone but I would never do that to my kids. As long as they want to talk to him, they will.
WH is still in foggy A universe and I think he may be slipping in further. I guess the 24/7 access to them is what they really wanted. This still SUCKS.
DS6 and I had a sleepover in my room last night. This morning he wakes up and tells me it isn't as fun in my room. I asked him why and he said his brother. I guess he really missed him last night. Well, today he won't miss him too much since he is going to get to play on the computer all by himself and not share.
Day 29, feeling fine. HAHAHAHAHA. Not really but I HAD to rhyme. We will do movie night today instead since we missed out yesterday. Here's to a great DARK Plan B. I haven't broken NC yet (although I sure have wanted to many times). The reason I don't is simple. I keep telling myself that if I break NC than I shouldn't have done a Plan A or anything else. I remember what my life would have been like had I not done it my way. I mean if it was up to WH he would still have been living here. If nothing else, I have saved myself from 29 days + of no abuse(emotional from A). I am making my life about me and my kids. I am glad I have them to distract me with LIFE.
I remember what my life would have been like had I not done it my way. I mean if it was up to WH he would still have been living here. If nothing else, I have saved myself from 29 days + of no abuse(emotional from A). I am making my life about me and my kids. I am glad I have them to distract me with LIFE.
And you know what?
You are having a positive effect on your parents. You just can't see it, yet.
Day 30- off to work with a fever of 101. Took some advil. I've been sick for 3 days.
Tomorrow is a month since I started Plan B. What has it been like? A true roller coaster ride. Some days I feel like he will never come home. Some days I want to give in to my insane thoughts and contact WH. Some moments I think that it isn't worth it and I get really mad. Those moments don't happen very often, but I am sure they will happen more and more often. The moments that do happen often are the ones that I think that maybe he will be happier with OW. I know that IS a possibility. I want to keep my HOPE and FAITH so I try not to think these thoughts very often.
WH isn't always on my mind but I do think of him many times a day. There are silly things like when I am making dinner and I grab 4 plates. It is things that are done out of a very long habit. When I am talking to people and I bring up an example with him in it. He was such a big part of my life.
I am making myself a better person regardless of what WH will do with his life. I feel like a part of what happened was that after I had kids I lost myself. I wasn't as strong as I used to be. I put my kids FIRST and everyone knew that. A lot of Mom's do that. We constantly hear that we need to put ourselves first. We hear all of the advice that when we can put ourselves first we can be better mothers and wives. We hear it, but most of us don't follow it. We become the martyrs and then we find that our WH tend to find OW that aren't martyrs.
I get mad because of that fact. I am a good and decent person. I did all of the "right" things. I take care of my family. I do what I HAVE to do. After coming on this site, I realize I was doing the wrong things. Yes, I have to take care of my children, but I should have made my M my number 1.
Thanx for allowing me to have a bit of a pity party. It's Sunday and that means WH is on his way to pick up the boys and it always creates feelings in me. I always get through them but it is nice to vent every once in a while.
.. I feel like a part of what happened was that after I had kids I lost myself. I wasn't as strong as I used to be. I put my kids FIRST and everyone knew that. A lot of Mom's do that. We constantly hear that we need to put ourselves first. We hear all of the advice that when we can put ourselves first we can be better mothers and wives. We hear it, but most of us don't follow it. We become the martyrs and then we find that our WH tend to find OW that aren't martyrs.
I think its normal for women to involve themselves with the children and shift attention to them from the Father. As a man I loved my wife attending to me,(fussing over me etc..), but I dealt with it when children were involved. I wouldn't have been attracted to my second wife if I didn't see her ability to sacrifice for children. You didn't do anything wrong there..
I get mad because of that fact. I am a good and decent person. I did all of the "right" things. I take care of my family. I do what I HAVE to do. After coming on this site, I realize I was doing the wrong things. Yes, I have to take care of my children, but I should have made my M my number 1.
Live and learn yes and maybe you did make a few mistakes but you didn't leave. You didn't shut down and run away. Ok so we all make mistakes and so isn't he, You all can come out of this and you are doing your part now.
Thanx for allowing me to have a bit of a pity party. It's Sunday and that means WH is on his way to pick up the boys and it always creates feelings in me. I always get through them but it is nice to vent every once in a while.
Np Scot,
I did the sacrifcial thing in my marraige also and my WW wondered why I was so run down and how ego got deflated after she had stompted all over me so many times. Lol. Well it was my own fault tring to be so tough and understanding while she had variuos affairs with the bottle and whatever followed. I stayed for the children and was a perfect babysitter when wife would fall off the wagon. When wife would snap back she would be the Mom again and I would go back to work...and so on..It just hurts to work so hard and get it yanked out from beneath you. I know and we are not alone I'm sure.
Its not a pity party its just relating about this very painful crap we go thru..
and edited to add about the errors we each have made in our marriages
"You live, you learn" and no matter what we did, we might have still errored before understanding the concept of Emotional Needs. That concept along with Love Busters is crucial to any future forever happiness.
I know that although I may now "know" about ENs and LBs and the basic concepts and I will still make mistakes. I know that even if WH comes back it doesn't mean that my M would recover. I am focusing on myself and making myself better. I am glad I have the kids as a distraction because believe me I don't know what I would do without that. I believe that the people without children at home must be super strong to do this. I can't get all obsessive about what WH and OW are doing.
On a plus side, my co-workers and friends are telling me that they see a little of the old me coming back. That is a good thing I guess hehehehehe. I can actually talk about other things and I can joke around and laugh. I am going to be a BETTER ME
My kids should be home soon. Woohoo shower time and getting ready for school tomorrow. The JOYS of motherhood. I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Well, it's been one month. I can't believe that a month has passed already. This is going to be a hectic week but it is going to be good because keeping myself busy and the kids busy makes it easier. Wednesday evening, DS9 was invited to a friend's birthday party and then Thursday is DS6's birthday. Ds6 has his party on Friday. He is going to have a lot of fun. I am sure he will miss WH not being there, but I will try to make up for it. Life continues, it's my choice where it takes me
Its funny how ppl will stumble in life and have to much pride to admit they made a mistake. Waywards will rewrite history and run away from the very thing that would bless them if they opened thier minds.
You are an awesome example of how to handle this Scot.
Are the days getting better for you? and the nights?
It is funny that you ask about the nights. They are fine for me. I wake up a few times at night because I have many many dreams about WH. Usually they are that we are trying to recover, then I wake up and I am a little saddened because reality is he isn't here. 6 months ago I was a person who COULD NOT sleep without my WH in bed with me. I am not kidding. My friends used to make fun of me because of it. They also used to make fun of me when I told them that I would have a DREAM that a man was hitting on me and I would actually say "I can't I am married." then I would wake up and say to myself, "It was just a dream." I can't even cheat in a dream.
So some MAJOR fog from WH today. He called DS9 and was talking to him. WH mentioned Ds6 birthday. He thought it was tomorrow. How did he forget his own son's birthday is on the 21st not the 19th? I know that DS9's birthday is on the 19th but not of January. Wow. Some things really amaze me.
When your brain is so full of oozing green alien fog that it drifts out your ears in odd moments, there just isn't any room left for trifling little things like birthdays.
Someday all the fog will be swept away, and his head will be empty except for a few grains of the life he used to have. It'll be a great place to start.
How did he forget his own son's birthday is on the 21st not the 19th?
I think this is a good sign. WH is losing his mind. And, he knows it.
A. Have adulterous affair (check) B. Move in with OW and her child (check) C. Screw up Christmas for boys (check) D. Forget my own child's birthday (check)
WH's guilt-o-meter just got higher. "I must suck."
Just hit me with the little padded 2x4 for this one. I know that WH is no longer attending his pool league on Monday nights. No I am not stalking him or checking up on him, I realized it last week when he emailed the boys at 8pm. He should have been no where near a computer. Then yesterday when he called, it was when he should have been at the bar. Pool is his LIFE. He has been playing since he was a kid and he has become quite good. Pool was such a BIG part of our life that both of our children were in Pool Halls when they were weeks old and had ques in their hands as soon as they could stand on a stool to reach the side of the table. He is changing everything that is real about him. Our children were his WORLD too. Many people commented about that when I told them about the A. They couldn't believe it because he loved me and the kids so much.
WH sister, who herself is living with the OM in her M(they have 2 kids together now too), actually asked me if WH was doing drugs because he wasn't acting like himself. It is funny because that's what we asked her when her A started too. I told her that he isn't on any drug except the drug from the affair itself.
My Mom was here today, the boys and I weren't feeling good so she came to help clean up a bit. She was telling me that she is really torn right now. She really wants to go back to my Dad but she doesn't think she can. She knows that he would most likely take her back she is just scared. She said it was funny because one of the reasons she felt so unattached from him before her A started was because he told her that he hated her. Now he tells her he loves her all of the time. She said that she is confused. I had told my Dad that he should go into a Plan B like state, but he can't. He still gets ENs met by her. They have always been kind of "dating". It is just confusing to me and VERY strange.
Anyways, I have been reading a lot of stuff and I have been making myself a better human being After this week, I am going to hunker down and getting a clue as to what I want to do with my career.
The pain of not recognizing who he is or what he's become will add to all the other pains he tries to ignore as he sells his soul for a cheap garden implement.
Over time, the pains stack up into something too big to ignore.
Family Party at my sister's tonight. DS9 baked the cake all by himself. He will decorate it when he comes home from school. Tomorrow is the kid's party, also at my sister's and it is going to be AWESOME.
The pain of not recognizing who he is or what he's become will add to all the other pains he tries to ignore as he sells his soul for a cheap garden implement.
Over time, the pains stack up into something too big to ignore.
A millstone?
You once wrote something incredibly insightful about that.
Here are the pics I promised I would post. The one is of my house a couple of years ago. The others are some recent ones a friend took. This is 15 blocks away from my house, how could I NOT LOVE IT?
I thought of you today as I knew it was your son's BDAY!!!!...and yes..... to DEAR SON
One month in....I am proud of you. You are sticking to your guns. Very brave of you.....you are learning to thrive and survive the worst that life can throw you. It will serve you well through the years.....
Have a happy celebration with DS and give him a big MB hug from me.....
So, I have a little funny story to tell. My best friend's birthday was yesterday. She works with me as well. She has the same name as POSOW but I don't hold that against her(hahahahaha I told you the universe is mean to me hahahahaha).
Anyways, my best friend didn't want anyone to know it was her birthday. I told her "what are best friends for if not to tell the whole world that it is your birthday?" I was working in a job that left me with a lot of free time. I made a multi-colour poster for her for her birthday. My supervisor told me I should get everyone to sign it. So I proceeded to tell everyone who was working to sign it.
A Police Officer came in to speak to a manager and while he was waiting, I told another employee about my friend's birthday. The police officer said, "Oh really, where is she? I think I will stop by and tell her Happy Birthday too." Well, he didn't just tell her "Happy Birthday" he dragged it out for a few minutes and actually said "BF, You are in a lot of trouble you know." After a few minutes he smiled and said "Happy birthday." and then shook her hand. She thought I sent him. Another employee told me that she would be sure to tell me when it is her birthday so I could send a police officer to her as well.
Just thought I would share. My bestfriend said that she will never forget that birthday.
Scripture uses millstone a lot but I allways remember this one
Matthew 18:6--Mark 9:42--Luke 17:2
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
My understanding of this is those who offend mislead the children of God. Like the gaslighters in the world who sell snakeoil. People who attempt to treat us like mushrooms..IE.."feed us crap and keep us in the dark". The opposite of that is to trust the truth and stand up for that.
.....Here are the pics I promised I would post. The one is of my house a couple of years ago. The others are some recent ones a friend took. This is 15 blocks away from my house, how could I NOT LOVE IT?
I miss the brutal beauty of nature that is in the north, Have allways loved the snow for that reason. Warm house, hot chocolate, the reality of how fragile we are compared to nature.
Then I remember watching the most fragile of people serve others self-lessly. Its redeeming to see.
awesome pics.... the snow with the falls is BEAUTIFUL.... glad to hear how strong you are holding up.... hope you have a great time tonight with youer dsx2 and the added kiddies at the party!!
Millstone? Insightful? Drawing a blank here - do you remember anything else?
Come to think of it. It was probably an email "conversation" we had when were were team IM's for a different MBer. It was about the HEAVY burden on one's soul when harming one's own child(ren) as a result of adultery.
Neak and Pep- are you to suffering from someitmers? Sometimes you remember and sometimes you don't!
The funny thing about the green shutters is I don't like it I am trying to figure out what other colour I should paint the green. Any suggestions? I have a dark green roof but I am probably going to be replacing it soon.
DS7 had a great friend birthday. My mom got him one of those Snuggie blankets(the silly blanket with sleeves that I affectionately call a backwards robe). DS7 loved it so much that he was kissing it. I told you that he is a little outta the box.
So the song I have running through my head today is the black eyed peas song "Tonight's gonna be a good night." I guess that means the party will be a HIT
I went to the dentist today and got 2 fillings and my mouth is still frozen. AHHHHHH even my nose is frozen.
RED? Hmmmm I never even thought of that colour. My favourite colour is blue and I thought about doing some sort of blue. Red. That is really a good one. I LIKE IT
ME LIKEY. I am liking the colour red right now too. I got a red purse and I have a red cell phone. For a few years I dyed my hair red. I even want to paint my kitchen walls a fire engine red. Hmmmmmm now I can't wait for the spring to come so I can start painting. So should I do all of the green trim in the brick colour? AWESOME idea. Now if I could get my career decisions off and running.
Hmmmmm now who am I going to get up on that roof? Do you think DS9 and 7 would do a good job.......HAHAHAHAHA j/k. I wouldn't let my kids paint the house. Okay, I wouldn't let them on the roof either but I am sure they would love to give it a try.
They will be painting their own room. Wanna hear the colours? Blue and orange with a purple ceiling. 1 wall blue, 1 orange and the other 2 stripe of both colours. DS7 said that he wanted a purple ceiling to remember Daddy. Well, I couldn't say no to that one. It is just paint after all no biggie.
I did my 13 year old dau's room royal purple with hot pink ceiling. Then I made purple swirlies on the ceiling from the walls, and pink swirlies down the wals from the ceiling. We got her orange, yellow and pink curtains, and I spray painted a corkboard turquoise blue. We also stuck "jewels" all over the corkboard. Her room looks like Dr. Suess on acid thew up all over it and she loves it.
She has royal purple and hot pink satin comforters with hot pink and purple paisley sheets.
My main room is kinda a dark guac color, my living room is terra cotta and my kitchen and downstairs powder and laundry room is the color of the center of an avacado. All these rooms feed in to one another so you can see at least one other room when your in another one. They are WONDERFUL. The dark guac and the terracotta feed on seperate walls to the upstairs. That, I'm painting a butter color.
(say it like Paula Dean now...It's a butt-ah color...she says butter like you and I say orgasm...like it's something dirty and wonderful at the same time)
THAT would give ME nightmares hahahahaha. I am glad to see that there are others parents who let their kids express themselves the way they want to. I feel like they have to make themselves into who they want to be and doing it through innocent experimenting like painting a room is awesome.
The funny thing about the green shutters is I don't like it I am trying to figure out what other colour I should paint the green. Any suggestions? I have a dark green roof but I am probably going to be replacing it soon.
We like black shutters and a black front door...getting ready to re-paint ours in black now.
I also like red..at our last house we had a red front door and everyone loved it. However, I would not paint the shutters and front columns red...maybe paint those black if you want a red front door.
ME LIKEY. I am liking the colour red right now too. I got a red purse and I have a red cell phone. For a few years I dyed my hair red. I even want to paint my kitchen walls a fire engine red. Hmmmmmm now I can't wait for the spring to come so I can start painting. So should I do all of the green trim in the brick colour? AWESOME idea. Now if I could get my career decisions off and running.
Hahaha...I like red too ~ my hair's been red before and our whole living/dining room is currently a deep red. I'll see if I can post a pic.
That's what I say too. Now tats and piercings will have to wait until they are grown. Boy I am so looking forward to teenage years. HAHAHAHAHA
If you have them, you may not have to worry about it...we both have tats and so now our kids think they're dorky...hahaha, reverse psychology really works.
So update on the party. I don't know why the universe is so mean to me HAHAHAHAHA. I guess it is cuz I can laff at this kind of stuff and I always see the positives. So we threw a really good party, UNTIL THE PUKING STARTED
Yep this was a child's party. No alcohol involved. So the party was from 430-630. At about 530 the birthday boy comes up to me and says, "Mommy I am going to puke." and before anyone could move,
Then, we played a mummy wrapping game. My 7 year old niece ran out of the room and.......
Then we did the pinata and the rest of the games and after we sang Happy Birthday and DS7 blew out the candles, my sister went running out of the room and......
We were getting ready to leave when my DS9 (you guessed it)
My friend's husband said, "Well, you sure know how to throw a GOOD party."
So we are bunking down on the couch for the night. I feel bad but I HAVE to go to work tomorrow. I only have 2 shifts this week and they are tomorrow and Sunday. I guess I will still have to send them with WH. I feel like I should be the one taking care of them though.
Everyone was sick even me. After the kids go t through the 3 day -fest. Mom was happy, then the dog walked up to her ,looked at her and yep right on her. That woman went through a lot that winter
I have the best luck. It is quite humourous. I always have memorable things happen.
You guys often commented about how strong I was during this process, well it has to be that I always have to deal with things. My life is one big WHEN IT RAINS IT POURS. Almost every trip I have ever been on has some funny things that have happened that made it memorable. Things pile up on me over and over again. I just take it in stride. What else are we supposed to do with life? Roll with the punches and see what else life has in store.
You talk about trips going wrong Scottie. My Grandma has noticed a little pattern with me, she won't ever travel with me.
when I was 15ish I went on a school exchange to Armenia, which included a few days stop off in Moscow - the trip was always on/off cos of the earthquake and unrest in Russia. When we first signed up to the trip it was �1=1 rouble when we went it was 100rouble. Well, we got mugged in Red Square by gypsies on the way out and then the day we left the tanks moved in to red square marking the collapse of the Soviet Union
When we took mum and dad on their first trip abroad we went to Canada had been there just 3 days 9-11. Made our internal flights interesting. Never mind that the pilot had real problems with landing gear and we circled about 7 times on our return to London ( I bet there were a few people on that flight that have been put off flying)
When we went to spain etta set off a bomb at the footbal stadium just 30 minutes after we drove past.
You certainly have the best attitude Scottie. Roll with the punches and keep looking forward knowing that the best is to come.
Well, now it is my turn. I nursed my children through the night and then I woke up and BADDA BING it's me.
WH called this morning. He was talking to DS9. DS9 hung up the phone and said, "Daddy hurt his shoulder." Well, I already called in sick to work but the kids are still going with WH today but here is the kicker. WH told DS9 that there would be a message for me on the answering machine. WH called back and left a message saying he dislocated his shoulder and has to go for surgery tomorrow morning. He will not be taking the kids tomorrow. I know I am supposed to get him to make arrangements but I have a feeling his only arrangement would be POSOW. What do I do about tomorrow? I am NOT okay with POSOW watching my kids for WH, I would rather find someone myself.
Also, he mentioned that he can not drive, which means that POSOW will be picking up and dropping off my children today. WTF. I am not happy about that. I was going to keep the kids home today so they could recover(and because I am not comfortable with POSOW coming here). I am sick though and it is his day so I am still sending them and gritting my teeth.
POSOW and WH already came here. I couldn't get hold of IM's as WH called while he was on his way here. I tried to get DS9 to call WH and just say that they were sick and were staying home with me but WH didn't answer the phone. When WH and POSOW came here, they parked a few houses away. I was actually very sick at the time, and in the bathroom. DSx2 left and will be back later tonight. I am going to set up another sitter for them for tomorrow because I have no choice, I have to go to work since I am sick today and I only have the two shifts this week(although I am going to try to pick up a couple to make up for today).
I am also having some feelings about WH surgery too. This is the first surgery either of us has ever had and I am really saddened that I am not going to be there for him and POSOW will be. He is going to have a scar that will be a constant reminder of HER forever. I am scared for him too. 2 weeks ago, I started having the thoughts of "What if he dies and the last time I talked to him is the day I asked him to leave?" Now I see tomorrow as a possibility of that. That sucks.
Feelings suck. Just when I think that things are looking a bit better BLAMO something comes outta left field. It always seems to happen that way. Life is funny that way. Par for the course in my life anyways.
Though you would love to be his partner caring for him with his surgery.....SHE gets to which will be a little extra reality for her here. She might rise to the occasion, or not. It isn't going to be a bed of roses for sure though. If you reconsile with him some day, you reclaim the stuff that is reminding of her (objects, the scar) and love it to transform it into future bonding with him. It doesn't have to be a trophy of them together. That could drive a person bonkers. You accept the reality and claim it as yours (kiss it and name it and love it should that wonderful day ever come)
You are ill and this is stressful BUT you can use the time to your advantage to recreate your inner dialogue to something like
"Woo hoo! I don't have to take care of him. How fortunate! Great the kids can be there to give him love and I can focus on ME."
(so hard to change the inner voices but it can be done)
Well, everyone who has had this flu bug, only lasts for about 12 hours. I have 4 put in so about 8 more and I should be good(right after the kids come home).
Thanx for trying to get me to change my inner voices. It is hard and these are just the thoughts that I had. I am sharing my experience with all of you and I am being honest. It helps me to get it out. I am journalling too. It doesn't help that today I am feeling ill and I didn't have much sleep so emotionally it is hard for me. Thanx again.
Looks like it is time to unplug the answering machine again. WH just called and left another message. It was something about what the kids bought with their allowance and how they were feeling today. I guess they were still sick. Well, WH is their father and part of it is taking care of sick children.
WH hasn't tried to break the NC in a LONG time. He hasn't sent messages through the kids or even mentioned me in emails.
Wow, I am always amazed at how accurate you guys are. It was funny when I first got here and I was in newbie fog, I thought my WH was DIFFERENT. Well, he is different, FROM ME, but not from other WS. Going even DARKER. I am not responding to him at all.
Well, the kids are home. Gotta take care of them now.
AHHHHHHHHH WH is so FOGGY it is killing me. DS9 told me that today they had gone to a video game store and bought 2 games. DS7's game didn't work so they were going back to the store to exchange it. DS9 felt really dizzy so WH left him at home alone with OW's 11 year old daughter. AHHHHHHHHH
This is not acceptable to me. She is only 11 and DS9 was sick. What would she have done if something happened to him? OMG I am SOOOOOO MAD.
I know I have to do something about this in regards to sending a message through the IM's but right now I am just mad. I need a clear head to figure out what it is I am going to get them to say to him. Any advice? The IM's won't be able to contact him until maybe Monday.
Okay, so some more honesty right now. I SO want to write WH an email telling him good luck for tomorrow. I won't because it will go against my Plan B. WH is probably going to think that I don't care. I do care. Thanx for the vent. I am going to bed now so I don't get tempted to write. I do hope he will write the kids or call when he gets out of surgery though so they will feel better(okay I will feel better too knowing that he is still alive and made it through okay).
Besides that you SHOULD be mad about that. Send a seriuos letter to WH ,Filtered through Ims of course),telling him this is not acceptable.
If you had IM's that were able to be contacted by phone then he should have been able to run it by THEM. They are your representatives at this time. Would he rather have a lawyer or child services be who you went to?
Assuming the Ims had a brain in their head and would have said something like,"Ok bring the children/child here and I will contact Scotland. They will be Ok with us for awhile." Part of this plan is to show WH he CAN'T have a good relationship with his children and keep them out of danger while he acts that way. This is a prime example of what ppl will lower themselves to when they feel entitled.
Sorry Scot . Hope all the boys feel better and are safe. You too. Not gonna be a real fun weekend waiting to deal with this huh?
It is frustrating to the max for our kids to be put in a situation we wouldn't approve of but I am sure your WH thought the 11 year old was mature enough to stand watch for a bit and that your 9 year old would be fine resting up.
Try to think the best there.
He is the dad and can make some decisions.
Granted, many of us would not, but , I believe it is legal in most areas for young kids to be at home without adult supervision.
It isn't that the IM's can't get contacted, they are quite reliable. WH didn't even try to go through them, he just called me directly. We don't have voicemail on our cell phones and since that is the only way that my WH communicates and he is going to be in surgery today, that is why they won't be able to contact him until tomorrow. I also thought that a slight cooling off for me would be good too.
It is frustrating to the max for our kids to be put in a situation we wouldn't approve of but I am sure your WH thought the 11 year old was mature enough to stand watch for a bit and that your 9 year old would be fine resting up.
Try to think the best there.
He is the dad and can make some decisions.
Granted, many of us would not, but , I believe it is legal in most areas for young kids to be at home without adult supervision.
You can check on the rules in your area.
In our area 11 year olds can be left alone. I was just angry that he would leave DS9 sick in the care of an 11 year old child. I just want to let him know that it is not okay with me. That is why I was going to have a cooling off period because my first instinct was to tell me that if he couldn't provide adequate supervision for our children that he was no longer going to have access to them. I have since cooled a bit and have decided that I am just going to tell him that I am not okay with that.
When you are "triggered" by something its always best to stop and consider first. Are you really angry? Or are you looking for a way to jab at WH?
This particular situation is over and done. What will come of your comments through IM? He made a judgement call with the situation he had to deal with -- ie. disappoint ds7 with a game that didn't work, haul sick ds9 to the store, or make a quick trip leaving ds9 with that girl. (Has anyone wondered where OW was during this?)
Any comment you make is going to make him defensive of his decision. He is their father, and these little issues will happen from time to time. You've got to somewhat trust his judgement, since your boys will be in his care. And he does have the right to handle things during his parenting time in the way he sees fit.
And your "I am not ok with it" is going to arrive at the same time he is dealing with his shoulder surgery. He's likely to brush it off. Ignore it. Be irritated. Meanwhile, OW is probably going to try pulling off the Florence Nightengale routine.
So she's probably trying to demonstrate her care and concern (while you are poking at him and critisizing him....)
I would say the timing is bad. Its likely not going to have a good outcome. And it will probably result with him telling the boys to stop telling you what happens during his time....
I agree Lexxy. I was really angry and I was worried because what COULD have happened. I do understand that he didn't want to have DS7 be disappointed and he thought that DS9 would be okay with OWD 11 and he was right, this time. I guess it was a case of the "what if's". Many mom's would and do understand that. I want to always protect my kids.
As far as where OW was during all of this. She was driving. WH wasn't able to drive. So WH, OW and DS7 went to the store.
As far as trusting his judgments right now, this is something that pre-A he would never have done. It just was FOG filled judgments.
ALSO. I am really glad that I didn't break NC with WH last night. He called DS9 at 10am(just as I was leaving to go to work) and he said that he didn't need the surgery afterall. It wasn't as bad as they thought on Friday. I would have felt like an idiot if I had broken NC.
Thanx SO. I decided that I was reacting out of emotions. That is what used to get me in to trouble. I wasn't trying to jab at WH, I honestly didn't want to hurt him in anyway. I was just scared about the sitch and possible future sitch that he may have put my children in. It sucks sitting back and letting these sorts of things happen. It really did bother me and I realized it was more drama. A friend of mine even suggested that my WH may have even did it on purpose so I would react. I don't try to analyze it but that comment was humourous.
I have to find a way to save myself better in Plan B because I realized last night that I am still too involved. I don't want to be too hard on myself since it has been just over a month since I went in to Plan B, and I have had no contact with WH in any way on my end. I have tried to stay as dark as night. I need to darken my own thoughts too.
There's a lot of that going around here, too, though nothing quite as dramatic as your rockin' party! ~I~ have been fine.
Keep up the good work - you're so good at thinking everything through and not just reacting.
The recommended breaks of PB are few and far between. In cases which drag on for months, it's possible to periodically (v-e-e-e-e-ery periodically!) send a short, sweet card, letting them know you have a plan for R, and are still interested in being M to them.
If we had been talking about open heart surgery or something really risky, I think a decent case could be made for a tiny break in NC. Since it was fairly low-key, and then no-key, lol, you were completely and 100% right to stay dark.
Let the OW go all Florence Nightingale on him if she wants. It doesn't even matter if she does well. She isn't you, and will lack the intuitive care he knows he would have gotten from you.
This, and a thousand other things are piling up to contrast the two of you. In a contest with her and you, you'll win hands down every time.
And in the meantime, there's the little Flo-wannabe holding the emesis basin for her "soulmate".
Everything goes well over here. I do come on here but when there isn't much to say, I just read other people's threads and try to help out where I can. Also, when I work on Wednesdays and Thursdays, the kids bogart the computer until after dinner. Today I had to fix the computer so they are playing Wii instead.
The boys had an awesome showcase on Tuesday night. They got to show off some of their work and they did songs and skits. WH tried to call, but we were unavailable. Then he emailed asking where they were and hoping that everyone was okay. I was a little mad about that because he can go 2 days without calling but the first day we aren't there like he expects he goes all "I hope you guys are okay." He knows that I am reliable and I guess he figures the boys will be there when HE wants.
WH even called last night and asked DS9 where we were last night while he was talking to him. DS9 said, "We are at home." Guess WH is just checking to make sure I am not keeping them out late or something. Oh well.
So something funny happened just before I left work today. One of my fellow employees told me, "So I heard OW is ugly?" I was a little surprised because not having worked days in MONTHS, I hadn't seen this employee in a long time. I said, "who told you that?" and she told me that an ex-employee had seen my WH and POSOW a while ago at a bus station. She now knows it was POSOW, but at the time thought they were "just friends". After this though, my feelings went in to a bit of a tail spin. Now I know why I shouldn't know anything about WH and POSOW. It affects me.
I am not sad exactly, but I am not as happy as before.
On another note, my bestfriend was telling me about how her DH is going away to military training and she wants to make sure that they will come out of this okay in their marriage. I loaned her HNHN and she started reading it. I hope that will help them.
WOW. If I haven't said it before I LOVE MY KIDS. So as always when WH calls, DS7 refuses to talk to WH and says, "I am still mad at Daddy for leaving and I won't talk to him on the phone." Then DS9 says to WH, "Aren't you getting used to that Daddy, he has been saying that every time?" Oh, my kids are SMART. HAHAHAHA I love it. I couldn't think up the things they say and do. It's funny that other than reality the only pressure on WH and OW's A comes from my children. WH always commended me on the great job I did raising our children, I guess he gets to see how great. Hmmm is it bad that this made me feel SO GOOD.
....... I couldn't think up the things they say and do. It's funny that other than reality the only pressure on WH and OW's A comes from my children. WH always commended me on the great job I did raising our children, I guess he gets to see how great. Hmmm is it bad that this made me feel SO GOOD.
That is so sweeet Scotty.
I don't know if you read anything I rambled on about my late wife and the troubles we had in our marriage but the one thing I loved about her was she great with the children when they were young. Its why I wanted to work for my family and supply them the world.
Its great when your childrens character reflects the values that count and heck feel great about it scotty Marriage isn't supposed to be all about the Children but it sure is something to be proud of. Prayin for ya.
Well, it's weird how it is the smallest things that get to me. Thursday before I left work a lady mentioned how she had heard that OW is ugly. That sent me into a bit of a tailspin. Then today my XBIL mentions that my SIL(the one who lives with her AP) is having a bday party for her and AP's son and my WH is going and bringing POSOW. Everyone will be there. This is where he will introduce POSOW to MIL. Everyone will be one big "happy adultery family". Oh this is just making me sick. Funny thing is WH hasn't talked to his sister in more than 4 years because of her adultery as BIL was his BF. He also never attended birthday parties. WOW, it is funny how set off I got from one innocent little story. I told BIL I want to know NOTHING. He said SIL will probably post pics on FB anyways. I won't look at those. POSOW would be in the pics I am sure
Oh well, I guess this should help me to get closer to healing but it sucks so bad. AHHHHHHHH
I gotta hand it to ya "Happy adultry family" is freakin funny as heck.
Do they have any vaccines around that can inoculate you from the disease?
Many times when ppl leave thier family they all of a sudden start doing things they didn't do before like the Bday Party and hangin with the other infidels.
It is hard to deal with this but I started to think that maybe this was good for me in two ways. I know I am not supposed to think about him but I still do, it's a fact. I actually look at the positives of this. If he is introducing her to his mother and sister and they are going to be a big "happy adultery family" then "reality" is going to start creeping in sooner and comfort is going to start coming through.
The second thing is for me. It was hard but I started to realize that he is moving on without me and leaving me behind. Well, that means I have to move on too. Not that I am not still in the mode that I WOULD try to R my M if he were to come home, but I need to move on without him too. I haven't been sitting around waiting for him, or even doing things because of him, but emotionally I have been wishing he would come home. Well, he MIGHT not. You know what, I will be okay with that. It will hurt, but it will be okay.
These thoughts gave me a different kind of dream today. I actually had a dream that I was dating someone else. He was a horrible kisser but I was moving on. That is one thing I miss about WH he is an AWESOME kisser.
Okay OKAY. I gave myself the 2x4. I know what I need to be doing. It is hard to get over this stuff. WH called and left a message yesterday to just say that there was an accident on the highway and the kids would be late. It wasn't necessary and he never called before last weekend and they were later then. Guess he just keeps trying. I am not going to break.
I have some important mail for him too, and I was thinking about sending it to the IMs and they could tell him they have it. It means he hasn't changed his address and that bothers me. It was from his work and from the government about his license plate renewal. I had originally thought about sending it to his work in an envelope marked "CARE OF POSOW" but I decided that would be bad, FUNNY, but BAD.
WH called and left a message yesterday to just say that there was an accident on the highway and the kids would be late. It wasn't necessary and he never called before last weekend and they were later then. Guess he just keeps trying. I am not going to break.
I have become aware of how my WW tries to push my buttons to provoke a conflict at times. My therapist has opined that it is common for waywards to have a lot a repressed guilt, and to try to test BS's resolve and generate conflict.
You will not break Scotland, and I will think of you when my buttons are being pushed, so as not to break myself.
Have you set a date for the length of your Plan B?
I have and I would like to keep that private in case I decide to change it myself in the future as the situation changes. I will say that I am in it for the long haul for right now. My HOPE is that I won't need to get to my deadline, but I do have one in mind.
I would be very careful in moving on if it meant seeking another relationship. I am sure you are aware that there are many broken men out there that mighthave a hero complex or worse, looking for an easy mark.
Take the time to mourn this loss,(if it becomes one permenantly), before your desire to be loved and the pain you are experiancing gets you into a relationship that makes you "feel" better. I say this because IMO you are an awesome young lady and probably will find someone who cares about you very easily. You also seem very capable of emotional bonding with someone in the future.
I know in my case, having been in a difficult marriage for many years I will probably not marry again or seek any commited relationships. At my age that also excludes sex because in reality, sex outside marriage really is BS. A 'commited" relationship just so I could have sex would also be half-baked and I know it. I am not saying that something couldn't happen some day but it would take years after I do some much needed work on myself before I will even entertain anything seriuos. The last thing,(no pun intended), I will be doing is sleeping with someone because I need to bond or take the relationship to the next level Gags me to think how so many ppl use sex to fix thier problems or ego. When my children,(now DD25 DS22 and DS18), were young and at that age where peer pressure about love and sex and and freindship all were questions to them I told them. "Being someones friend is loving them, don't worry, when the time comes and you have grown up enough to really learn how to love someone and you get married, all your parts will work just fine" Their Moms examples later in life didn't help to keep them from experimenting but they still have had better relationships in their lives than either myself or my late wife did in our youth so I am glad for that small blessing.
I remember how I felt after my first marriage fell apart and the inventory I took on myself that I SWORE I would deal with before I ever got married again. I was married at 18 to HS GF and I was not ready to be nor was she. It ended with her getting Preg from another guy and we had a child we put up for adoption when 1st wife couldn't bond with him. It was a mess to say the least and after breaking up and me having flings with women later that were designed to make me feel better I examined what I needed to be whole before I sought out someone I could spend the time with and have a relationship with that would be the love of my life. Ya know dinner,dancing,presents,trips to club med, what have you. I had a 6 year plan that would bring me to a carreer goal and then I could afford to support my child from the first marriage, seek couseling for me, sort out my past and live in the moment. My mistake was trying to date at that time. The thoughts like I deserve to be happy and the opinions of many ppl around me who built me up and looked up to me fueled my blindspot that relationships would take more out of me than I really had to give at the moment. My dating experiance eventually brought me to a relationship where we both sympathised with each other because we recognized how unfair our past life experiances and marriages were and decided to support one another, then we "fell" in love. With all the noble ideals we held and all the fight we had in us we struggled to fix our past and build a future. Niether of us had our heads screwed on straight enough yet and we would have been better friends to each other to keep it at arms length. "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". Soon a child came and we sacrificed our own emotional and mental health,(as in couselling and building ourselves individually) providing for thier well being as it should be. Niether of us really got to the place where we were both healthy and happy with any real stability although we did live our lives with a dedication to our children and family and to God as we understood him at the time.
You are young and this is your first marriage,(I think you said that B4), You might not believe this but in time you will find a freedom that beats the heck outta any relationship that requires you to be cheated on and hurt like this. If WH comes back and you guys both heal it could be gloriuos and you certainly are doing what is the only thing you can do to show him that. If he stays with POSOW and ruins his life that is not your problem.
I hope that you take your sweet time and love life to the fullest while you heal and give time for your "picker" to adjust. Like your sig says, "Scars remind us where we've been, they don't have to dictate where we are going". I guess all this stuff Im spewin out here is designed to warn you that your internal picker is prolly damaged right now and you are very vulnerable. There is no set time when you will be ready to get into another relationship if your marriage does not go into recovery and growth. When you are happy just as you are and are living life to the fullest without romance depending on someone else will probably be one goal that you want to shoot for.
I know your sitch is not mine and I hope it never would/could/will be but I wouldn't be a freind if I didn't warn you. Being a guy I hesitate to counsel women not because I think any EAs will come out of it but more because I think women can counsel them better than I. Still doesn't mean that I wont warn someone if I think it warrents it. If this warning about relationships is way off base and unfounded you don't need to explain just tell me to shut up
I am glad to get everyone's input. I don't intend on dating EVER again to be honest. I am MADLY in love with my WH and don't see how it would EVER be fair to someone else to not have all of me.
I dated a lot of "boys" when I was younger(my WH and I started dating when I was 16). All of the "boys" I dated cheated on my and 3 of them even got other girls pregnant since I wouldn't do SF, so they found someone else. I was at the point where I didn't want to deal with the drama and I decided that men sucked. Then I met WH and I fell in love. He was nothing like my old bf's(they were bad boys who slept around, I was WH's 1st GF and he was 18). He was nice, and quiet. My family and friends loved him. It was a "perfect" match. Don't beat me with the 2x4's, I was a TEENAGER.
I decided that this was it for me. When my WH and I married, I decided that no matter which way this R ended (either D or death) that I wouldn't need to date again. I have what I needed from a relationship with exception to the "for life" part. I could never fully trust someone again and that would not be fair for that person. Also, I have my children to think about.
I am not even thinking about dating again, let alone any time in the near future. I am focused on recovering from this heartache but just to be alone. I am okay with alone. My grandma is 86 years old and almost 40 years ago, she left my grandfather. He was involved in an A and she didn't want to stay with him. She never dated again and she is happy. Her sister's H died when she was 35 and she never dated again either. That sounds good to me and has always been what my plan was.
I didn't want to tell how long I had planned on doing Plan B because I didn't want to defend myself. My Plan is actually longer than some people would recommend(even Dr H himself). It is my choice and I will do what I think best. I am not "waiting around" but I am not "moving on" with anyone else either. I am just recovering and working on ME ME ME.
Longer is ok, if you still want it when you get there. By the famous 2yr mark the odds go way down, but there is still a small chance, even then.
Good to have a goal, and good to have the flexibility to be willing to change according to the situation.
Sounds like the kids put Cheerios down the heater vent again - it runs down past the wall of our room and makes little rattling noises. I don't care enough to go up and find out. Zzzzzzzz.
..Sounds like the kids put Cheerios down the heater vent again - it runs down past the wall of our room and makes little rattling noises. I don't care enough to go up and find out. Zzzzzzzz.
So funny, I remember when my sons were told they had to clean out the Gerbil cage and desided to stuff the crap downthe bathromm sink drain, hence clogging the pipes and ruining the plumbing.. Its those memories huh?
Hey Scotty, My mom was married to my Dad for 20 yearsand when he started goin on about wanting a divorce she went to counselling for 2 years with her pastor weekly untill after my dads consistently got worse and said he had a GF the Pastor said "well time to give it to him then".
She never slept with any other man,(she was beautiful woman too) before or since then and in her 80s goes out and socializes and has a great life. So I am all for ya Gal WOOHOO
Scotty, Your Plan B timeline is yours and yours alone. I think everyone here would like nothing better than to see you happy and healthy. If it takes you two years or more so be it. Keep jumping over those hurdles. You'll be ready to move on when you're ready. I have no doubt that at the end of it all, whichever way it goes, YOU WILL BE FINE.
Thanx. I KNOW I will be fine, it just sucks getting there. I know that I have to do all of the steps to get there, but some of them seem harder than others. I can't believe how far I have come in these short months and I have Dr H, MB, and more importantly all of you who took your time out to help me, to thank for it. Even people who no longer post have helped me since I have read MANY MANY threads.
Plan B is HARD, but it is funny how much better I feel day to day. There are bad days, but before, every day was a bad day. I even find myself lost in a moment and then I realize that I didn't think about my WH at all for 5, 10, even 20 minutes. That is personal recovery. My life is going on and if my M recovers too, that would be a BONUS.
13 years ago, there was an incident that happened with my father that cause my parents and I not to talk for 1 year. I guess you could say it was like I plan B's them. We ran in to each other at the grocery store and my Mom sent me a Christmas card. We started talking again after that. I learned that I needed to get away from them to grow up. I realized that I didn't "need" them but I did want them in my life. That was a great time of personal growth. I look at this as another chance for that. Even if my WH wakes up and decides to come back to the M, I will know that I don't "need" him. That is good for me.
Now if only I could figure out what I want to be when I grow up. HAHAHAHAHA
Neak, so funny about the cheerios. Only parents could understand things like that.
Well well well. Some REALITY is hitting WH right between the eyes at this exact moment. My DS9 is telling him about the counselor that I took him to today. I told him that he didn't have to hide anything from WH. I am proud of my DS9 for opening up to WH. I realized today that my WH has passed on his ability to avoid hurtful sitch in trying to make them go away. We all know that doesn't work. It is nice when counselors are telling me that I am doing the right things so far. THIS IS A GREAT FEELING. Sometimes the little things make me feel good too.
Honesty the entitlement that WS's have is UNBELIEVABLE. So WH sent DSx2 an email stating that he will be picking up the boys tomorrow for the bday party at his sister's and that the kids will be spending the weekend with him. UMMMMMM NO F'ING WAY. He stated that he sent a message to the IMs. OKAY. Good for him using the IMs but they didn't call me yet and I DID NOT SAY OKAY. Of course I am also NOT saying OKAY. AHHHHHH just when I started to feel okay again this week, he decides to push boundaries again. Oh well. Let it roll off of my back and pretend that he didn't even write to them. DARK PLAN B DARK PLAN B DARK PLAN B.
Scotty, Your Plan B timeline is yours and yours alone. I think everyone here would like nothing better than to see you happy and healthy. If it takes you two years or more so be it. Keep jumping over those hurdles. You'll be ready to move on when you're ready. I have no doubt that at the end of it all, whichever way it goes, YOU WILL BE FINE.
I agree with this. You will know when you know, having a date helps you get there I imagine. YOU WILL BE FINE!
I called IM's to let them know what WH had planned and tha it was not okay with me. I asked them to call my WH and tell him that the boys will be available as agreed upon on Saturday from 9-630 and Sunday from 9-630. WH also called DS9 and told him that there was an email and that he would be picking up the kids tomorrow. I explained to DS9 that WH didn't have an okay from me for these plans and that it wasn't something that he should have told DS9 without knowing it was going to happen first. I explained that WH wants to have them for the whole weekend and that is not okay with me and not what we agreed upon. DS9 said that he didn't want to sleep over at POSOW's house anyways. I told him again that "what Daddy is doing is against the rules, because we are still married. That Daddy shouldn't have introduced them to POSOW at all and that it is wrong. If Daddy didn't want to be married anymore, he should have gotten a D first and then he could have a GF, but not while he was still M."
I know it was a lot but I know that he could understand that.
DS7 said that when WH comes tomorrow, we will just pretend that we aren't even here. I am going to unplug the answering machine and turn off my cell phone until his normal time for calling.
I hate having to deal with this kind of thing but I know it is nothing compared to what I could and will have to deal with in the future.
OKAY I need a MAJOR 2x4 for his one. I checked his phone logs to see if he did call IMs on Monday like he emailed that he did. He may have tried to but he called the bar that he plays pool for instead. I guess he must have dialed the wrong number. No wonder there was no message from IMs.
I think I may have to get my BF to text WH some time tomorrow if IMs don't call me by noon and she can become my back up IM when needed as she has internet access and a cell phone. I didn't think it would be that much of a problem and I knew he would feel MORE comfortable talking to them.
In case my IMs don't call me in time, this is the text message I would like my back-up IM to send, "WS, It is BS's BF, I am back up IM. The boys will be available on Sat9-630 and sun9-630 as agreed/planned/usual." What do you think?
He doesn't like that he can't see them whenever he wants. He feels 'hey I am the dad so I shouldn't be made to see my kids only when so-and-so says so.'
Oh I know that, and I am prepared. The thing is, I think he is underestimating my venom too. With this week so far, I am getting a lot angrier than I have been sine Nov 27th when I actually truly "found out". I KNOW what my legal rights are and I know that I did nothing wrong. I will not do anything to hurt my children but I will also do EVERYTHING to protect them. DS9 said that if WH tried to keep them overnight that he would tell him that he wanted to go home. There is no custody agreement yet(just because I know that they would enforce every other weekend, overnight) but I wouldn't do anything to keep the kids away from WH. I am doing what is best for my kids. I am just really frustrated.
You are doing what is best for your kids. You tell WH that he must abide by the agreement. If you violate that agreement a judge will pay attention to that...and that will make things slant in WHs favor.
'She violates the agreement, why should she have so much time?'
There is no agreement legally, there is just my addendum to my Plan B letter which was a slight change to what we had discussed before I went in to Plan B. The slight change is that he wanted to watch the children IN OUR HOME. Of course, that wasn't going to happen. He gets every Sunday 9-630 and every other Saturday 9-630 with another day optional(if he would call the IM's to set it up). It is fair, but he isn't happy that he has to drive both Saturday and Sunday because it costs too much for gas(WH actually said that to DS9).
DS9 and DS7 don't WANT to sleep over there anyways, so maybe he will just see it as a problem.
So, I have been thinking about it all night and I have come up with a PLAN. WH didn't actually contact the IMs although he thought he did. So I treat it like he didn't even say anything and I just don't acknowledge it at all. I think that will be what I do. The boys know that WH wants to come here and pick them up for the night, but they don't want to go. They said we would just sit here and when he comes, we would just ignore that he is here. I am not totally sure that I shouldn't get my BF to send him the text. Any thoughts? Which way should I do it?
Okay, I have a question about a different sort. It is about children. I got a call from the school principal today. Apparently DS7 was refusing to listen to his teacher or do any work. He was lying on the floor. The principal had to go in to the classroom and tell him to get up and then brought him to his office. DS7, after a half an hour, still refused to work and decided it would be more fun to sit in the principal's office. The principal called me and told me that this was the 5th time in a short while that he had to speak to DS7(I only knew of 1 other time). He said that I could come and pick up DS7 or he could spend the rest of the day in the office.
I went to the school, and talked to DS7 and told him that he could not have his friend come over today after school and he would not be allowed to play video games or on the computer since he was going home. Here is my dilemma, he decided that he would stay at school and listen to the teacher for the rest of the day. Do I still let his friend come over? or do I tell him that we will have to try again another day? It is hard for me because DS9 is a different kind of child in that he has always been easier to deal with. Any wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Hon, the child is 7 and needs to realize there are consequences for his actions AND his inactions.
I go through this with my 10 year old periodically - this is the kid that is most scarred from the Wookie's infidelity...and in no way shape or form should you REWARD a child for misbehaving...and that means having other kids come play.
It sucks big ol'pigeon poop covered rocks, but there it is.
Thanx, I kind of thought that he went back only because he thought that meant his friend WOULD be able to come over. I know that I have to give him some consequences. ahhhhhh this was really bad timing on his part. Why couldn't he do this to me on Monday, when WH wasn't pulling his own crap? I guess I already knew what I had to do. No friend for DS7. DS9 should still be allowed to have a friend come over so DS7 sees that DS9 "played by the rules" so he gets rewarded. Well boogers(that's my swear word) this sucks. Thanx for the vent even though it was about the kids not the A and WH.
Hon, I have 5 kids the oldest is 20 and the youngest is just in Kinder...you can vent about children with me till the cows come home and I'll commiserate with you twice as long.
I completely agree that he should not be allowed to have his friend over. I know he's hurt and confused- but he's kinda testing you guys probably. Especially since he's done this so many times lately that you didn't know about.
I think you need to set your boundaries here right now. Usually if you do not keep the punishment they won't believe you when you go to punish them the next time.
My oldest is 13- he was nine when I got remarried. We had some issues at school- he was in 4th grade. It didn't last long and we explained to him that kind of behavior would be unacceptable. I would most certainly punish in this situation- I have two smaller kids 8/9.
It's sort of letting them know whey can't pull the wool over mom's eyes. Three weeks ago my oldest decided to not ride the bus but walk to school after he'd been told not to do it. It wasn't that far- but any freak could have picked him up. He's been punished for three weeks. No TV, No games, No computer. He's punished just the same when he is with dad. I told him the other night "You know- mom and dad are going to win this thing- I will not give up- if you would only do what you're told to do none of this will happen. Boys! Teenagers!
This is just my opinion of course. I know they need extra attention and love right now from their sane parent- but they still have to follow the rules.
On the other hand, instead of giving attention to the bad behavior with a punishment, you acknowledge the good behavior. Yes, you let the friend come over tonight, he followed his end. If you don't allow the friend over he will think it doesn't matter that he did what you wanted him to do, he is going to get punished either way.
While I agree it would show a child there are consequences, but the younger the child, the closer to time the consequence has to fall from the behavior.
Let it go tonight. But set it up with him in the future, and stay in contact with the teacher, a good report means he gets the computer that night, a bad report means he doesn't. Work this day to day.
As far as the scheduling with IM. Let WH know, through the IM, that schedules don't change unless he lets the IM know of his wanting to change and he hears back with YOU that you agree. e does not get to command what he wants simply by "calling" the IM. And also let him know, through the IM, that schedules should not be talked about with DS's until it has been cleared...
Please keep a note of this and if he makes an issue of you not letting him see the kids, then you will have an explanation of each event he claims he was left out...
As far as tonight, do not pretend to not be there...just not be there...go to a movie (where you have to turn off your phone) go someplace crowded, like a mall or place where it would be hard to hear your phone. If you like you can leave a note on the door..."WH, schedules made with DS and not through IM are not OK, go through IM."
I know, it just really sucks that it is me ALONE that has to deal with this. My WH gets to have "fun time" with the kids and I have to parent. Sucks being RESPONSIBLE I knew all of this was coming.
DS7 has always been a "spirited" child and it is hard to deal with for me. What I was wavering on was that he stayed at school and agreed to listen to the teacher so his friend WOULD be able to come over. I felt like if he does now listen and then I didn't let his friend come over he would believe that he would never get rewards for things he does do.
I took a positive parenting course a few years ago, and the teacher said that things that happened at school should have the consequences at SCHOOL not at home. She said it would be like me saying to the teacher, "DS7 didn't go to bed at bedtime last night, can you do something about it?" It makes sense but at the same time, I was imposing these restrictions on him.
OH PARENTHOOD. I wouldn't give it up for the WORLD.
things that happened at school should have the consequences at SCHOOL not at home.
This makes a great deal of sense.
Something I say to my kids quite a bit when they are having a "challenge" at school is...what do you need from me to help in this situation. We can generally come up with what the problem is...like bad grades coming from not doing homework for example. So my suggestion to them about how I can support them is to help take away distractions at home so they can do their homework, promise more time to support them with their work, will check it. We talk about those distractions (like TV or the computer) and talk about how to limit them. I promise that I will help enforce it, remind them, etc. So we come to the same outcome, but they see why these things have to happen.
So if you were to talk with your son about what he needs from you to support him with the challenges he's facing at school, what would he say? Perhaps talk with him about what about the class is bothering him? (Is he getting triggered at school, are kids teasing him, heaven forbid, but does someone there know POSOW?) If he is acting out, there is a reason behind it...and he may not be able to articulate it.
Perhaps spend some time together before, after, or instead of the friend over, whatever you decide, and dissect what happens in the classroom for him. My guess is there is something really bothering him and he is having a hard time articulating it other than to just shut down...
I would talk with him about events that lead up to this shutting down, what happens just before, and what happens during and after...
As far as the scheduling with IM. Let WH know, through the IM, that schedules don't change unless he lets the IM know of his wanting to change and he hears back with YOU that you agree. e does not get to command what he wants simply by "calling" the IM. And also let him know, through the IM, that schedules should not be talked about with DS's until it has been cleared...
Please keep a note of this and if he makes an issue of you not letting him see the kids, then you will have an explanation of each event he claims he was left out...
As far as tonight, do not pretend to not be there...just not be there...go to a movie (where you have to turn off your phone) go someplace crowded, like a mall or place where it would be hard to hear your phone. If you like you can leave a note on the door..."WH, schedules made with DS and not through IM are not OK, go through IM."
I know that WH has to learn that he can't just leave a message for IMs(although technically he left it on a bar's answering machine LOL) and expect that it is done. He has to get a response from me. I am just not going to acknowledge it either way as he didn't do what he was supposed to so it is another wayward "fart" HAHAHAHAHA
He is trying to push the issue of having the kids sleep over. I am just not doing it. DS7 has certain things that he MUST have in order to sleep, and I just don't send them with him.
Old lady disagreeing. I think he should get a visit, and just be told that he misunderstood what you were trying to say. However, if you want to reward and punish and the same time, maybe you could let his friend come over, but only for 1/2 the time he would've been allowed to stay otherwise. My, I'm glad my kids are all grown up!!!!!!!!!! Ya hear that, Neak?
I LOVE TEACHERS. Just wanted to write that before I started the rest of this. I think that the problem is that this teacher is too soft on her approach with "difficult" children and that DS7 sees this as an opportunity to walk all over her. My friend's son had this same teacher in Grade 1 as well, and she said he was a bad kid and a horrible student. Even suggesting that he needed to have an educational assistant for behaviour problems. Then the teacher left for maternity leave(it is a year here) and the replacement teacher told my friend that although her child was a C student, there was nothing really wrong with him. My DS7 and my friend's son have the same personality traits. I knew there would be problems and I think that my WH's A added on to this sitch and that's where we are now.
That is a good thought, reward and punish. Hmmmmmm that is a thing I NEVER thought of before. Are you secretly a DOMINATRIX? SORRY NEAK just having a bit of fun with your mom
That's kind of what it sounded like to me too, a melt down, that's why it might be helpful talking with him about what happened.
It won't be the last time he has to deal with someone in his life that has some power or control over him that he doesn't understand or respect...
If he has some valid concerns with the teacher he can come up with a way to talk with her or you can act as an advocate and go with him as he talks with her.
I have to be creative with the way that I deal with him myself. I remember this one time(at band camp[sorry that is totally for the youngins at my job although they don't read here]) when my DS7 was 4 and we were walking home. We were walking with a friend and my DS7 wanted to walk down a different street. It wasn't the street where my friend's car was parked and I told him, "No we are walking down that street." Then he said he wasn't going anywhere and laid down on the ground. It was 40 minutes before he would move and even then it was only crawling. It was a trying time, but I knew that I had to go the whole nine yards or else I should have given up in the first place.
LIGHT BULB MOMENT. That is what I have to do with WH too. Geez, I always thought that DS7 looked like WH, but to realize that he may have the personality traits of him too OY VEY. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Dominatrix? The grandkids might think so. I was a lot more laid back with my own kids, especially (if you ask Neak) with her baby sister, Neaksis. But then, my kids weren't nearly so screwed up, either. Long story. You may even have already read it, so I'm not going to repeat now.
I just thought that it might work to reward him for his wise choice, while at the same time showing consequences for his bad choice. The fact that you can do it all at the same time is just gravy.
So.....I didn't have to worry about that anyways. The 2 boys who were coming over, had to go to their grandparent's house so I just told DS7 that we would try again for Monday. That problem solved, we then moved on to WH.
My one friend suggested that I take the boys out for dinner. So that's exactly what I did, we went to a Chinese buffet close to our house. Problem I didn't think about was where the restaurant was....right on WH's way to my house. Well, we left our house and went to the restaurant. We were walking because we don't have a vehicle. Hence the real issue with the placement of the restaurant. Well, WH called, and called and called. He even text messaged me. BIL told me that SIL informed him LAST WEEK that WH would be bringing the kids with him to the party. UMMMM NO. So we finished our dinner(the kids filled up on chicken balls, orange slices and JELLO), then just as we thought the cost was clear and we could walk home(right down the same street WH would have to drive down) WH texted me saying, "Where can I pick up the boys?"
I strategically got the boys out of the restaurant, down a side street and we went to my BIL's house. My BIL and his GF asked if I called. I said nope. WH called them because he was looking for us. Oh well. BIL and his GF took us to the mall and the boys had a fun time joking and playing with their uncle. I even let them buy a video game with their allowance.
The wrath of WH will come tomorrow but I won't be around to hear it. I don't know what he is going to do with the kids when they don't have any of the things he needs for them to sleep over. Oh well, one hurdle at a time.
For a joke, here is the 3 fortunes that DSx2 and I got today. DS7 got "You express yourself with charm and humour." DS9 got "You have a basic need for solitude some of the time." and I got, "You tune in intuitively to people and situations immediately and intensely."
I have a "funny feeling" that I am going to be served with court papers this morning. 10 more mins and I will let you all know. WH called and told the kids to have their stuff ready for the sleepover. DS9 didn't want to tell him that they weren't sleeping over. So our plan is that they go out with nothing and DS9(on his own) came up with that he will say, "We come home at 630." when asked where his stuff is. Then when asked why he wants to say, "Because we don't want to sleep over."
Well I was wrong about the papers but not about his "venom". WH came to pick up the boys and it went as they planned but WH sent DS7 back in and said, "Daddy said we HAVE to sleep over." I said, "No you don't." Then he said, "But Daddy is taking us to a carnival tomorrow." and I said, "Daddy can pick you up in the morning." and then I closed and locked the door.
I went in to the bathroom, closed the door and waited. The POUNDING on the front door began and then the phone started ringing. It lasted 10 minutes. What was I doing, putting nail polish on my fingers. I may have to fix it I was a bit shaky. Now I am headed off to work.
Our agreement prior to Plan B(when he talked about his leaving me to move in with POSOW) was that he would watch the kids when I had to go to work. He would watch them every sunday and every other saturday. I changed my shifts in anticipation of Plan B(I used to work 7-330 now I work 10-530) so the kids wouldn't have to wake up early to go with WH. WH is ANGRY because he wants to come and watch the kids in the house while I went to work. Of course that is not okay with me. So now he said that he wanted to keep the kids overnight "because it costs too much money in gas" to come here both Saturdays and Sundays. Had he said that he wanted more time with them, than I may have thought about it. Besides I asked the kids and they said that they don't want to sleep over there.
There is no legal agreement either way. I haven't gone to court yet because the courts would award my WH every other weekend from 6pm Friday until 6pm Sunday and I would have to make the kids go whether they wanted to or not. I am making WH go to court to get that if that's what he wishes to do.
Pepperband- I am prepared that he may keep the kids overnight, but I KNOW that it wouldn't be a pleasant night for him at all since DS7 didn't take his doll, pillow or blanket and he is not nice without those.
WOW. So it hit 7pm and I thought, "He is keeping them overnight."
Then the door to the porch opened and I knew they were home. We are watching a movie tonight, Spongebob Squarepants. I was popping popcorn and I asked DS9 what happened today. He said, "You know Daddy was trying to call you for 10 minutes right?" I said, "Yea, I was in the bathroom." He said, "that whole time?" I just nodded. Then he said, "did you hear Daddy yelling?" I said, "No I couldn't hear him." He said, "well Daddy was saying that he wanted our snowpants and if you didn't give him them he would just buy us some more and waste the money."
Then he said, "Daddy's plan was he was going to keep us anyways." I said, "OH? What changed his mind?" He smiled and said, "ME." I asked what he meat by that and he said that he started crying while they were driving away. WH asked DS9 why he was crying. DS9 told him, "It's because we don't want to sleep over at your house."
Then DS9 told me that they went to a shoe store with POSOW and her daughter in our city. I said, "Oh was this before you went to her house?" and he said, "Yes they were here to pick us up."
So now POSOW saw WH acting like a FOOL. Well, good on them.
WH is taking them to a french winter carnival tomorrow. Guess who's french? Did you guess OW? cuz you'd be CORRECT. Carnivals were always said to be such a waste of money to WH. Another pretend him thing he is doing. They are going as one big happy family again tomorrow. Guess POSOW has the day off. Oh well, I have to go watch the movie now.
"well Daddy was saying that he wanted our snowpants and if you didn't give him them he would just buy us some more and waste the money."
If you end up divorced, Daddy will need to buy a complete second wardrobe for the boys to keep wherever he ends up living. He might as well get used to that. Never allow your boys to pack extra clothes, take their toys, etc. It's all up to Disneyland Daddy to provide.
Remember this one:
"Daddy will take care of all your needs while you are in his care."
Too-effin-boo-hoo-bad
Remember .... WH gets ZERO of HIS needs (financial security) met by you in plan B.
OKAY, that is something I never thought of in that way because he is still depositing his whole pay cheque in the account. He only takes out what he needs for food and gas. I financially can't do it alone for about 2 more months, and I thought it would be better to continue it this way until then. Don't worry I will still have him pay child support, but until I can get the government "bonus" adjusted(have to wait until he has been out of the house for 3 months first) then I need the extra money.
There are certain things like mortgage, and insurance that come out automatically. His credit card payment used to come out automatically too, I set that up, so I unset it. I will have mortgage, house insurance and all of the household bills come out of my separate account.
I know you will decide what is best for you in your situation. I only make suggestions, or give my 2 cents from the peanut gallery. You're doing great. Affair-land is not as pretty as you think it might be, believe it or not. Many former waywards later report what torment they felt while their BS was in plan B.
I went in to the bathroom, closed the door and waited. The POUNDING on the front door began and then the phone started ringing. It lasted 10 minutes. What was I doing, putting nail polish on my fingers.
SHEER GENIUS!!!!!
I TRUE GODDESS always take care of herself, even in the face of adversary......Did you have your tiara on as well???.... ....at least the imaginary one???..cuz if not Miss Pep might have to swing out there and give you a piece of her mind......
All kidding aside, Scotty, you are doing so FABULOUS at this Plan B stuff. REALLY. I haven't seen this anyone handle this part nearly as well as you.....BRAVO.....
And your boys?????....what BRAVE, AMAZING, and TRULY manly little men you are have there.....I LOVE LOVE LOVE how they snookered WDad into bringing them back home......
Well, this morning I was a PERFECT PICTURE of self-restraint. I looked out the window to see if they were gone yet because I had to leave to be at work on time(DS7 took so long getting ready that WH called twice, he is IMPATIENT). What did I see? POSOW in the front seat of WH's truck. Oh I was MAD. There was no reason that she had to be here. They were going to that winter carnival in the same city where she lives. It is 30 minutes away. I started screaming things at the window. Of course noone could hear me but I was ANGRY. I had visions of what I would do to her if I just went outside. Well, since I am NOT in jail and I went to work today(albeit angry angry angry and when you work on the customer service counter of a major retailer not always a good thing), I didn't go out.
DS9 had said that he doesn't like that she is in the car when WH comes to pick them up, so I told him that he needs to tell WH. He is afarid that WH will get mad.
She was in the car when he dropped them off too. This is driving me NUTTY. I don't know how much SELF-RESTRAINT I can muster. OKAY OKAY j/k. I will not go outside I will not go outside. I think it is funny because WH lingered for a couple of minutes on the porch before he went back to the car. He knew I was standing behind the door because DS7 said, "Hi MAMA." He couldn't see me though.
OH BOOGERS. This is difficult but the anger is good for me. It makes me stronger and helps me heal. It also made the day at work go faster. That was a bonus.
Don't look out while they're there, even if you're a couple minutes late to work. You can't keep hemorrhaging like that over the long term.
I would bet dollars to donuts (and I really, really like donuts!) that it wasn't WH's idea to have her there. It seems to be pretty common that most WS's anyway, don't like to have their worlds collide. Meaning they try to keep their OW life and memories extremely separate from their wife life and memories. When the two worlds intersect, or even come close to brushing, it all but unhinges many WS.
Maybe the reason is because they've spent all that time and effort building a separation in their mind, and when reality causes the two to slop together even a little, their mental circuits overload.
Two quick examples from AJ: 1) When he took OW to our favorite family restaurant, he said he had a very hard time because memories of me kept intruding, and 2) whenever I went to his work or anywhere she and I were or might be around each other, he totally flipped out, even before I knew of the A, and more so after.
So.......OW does not want your WH to come to the house by himself.
This is NOT about wanting to spend time with him, or how she can't bear to be without him.
She doesn't trust him with you, plain and simple. And with very good reason.
I only get updates on him from My MOM. Now isn't that funny. He has been busy working. It has been about a week since he called me so I should be getting a check up call soon. He is adorable when he calls me because he wants to make sure I don't need anything, and that I haven't done anything stupid.
As far as him and my Mom, that is a messed up sitch that I couldn't even imagine being in, but my BIL and SIL take the cake.
BIL and new GF were going to go to the party SIL and AP were having for their 2 year old son. SHAKE YOUR HEAD> any rocks in there?
BIL and new GF were going to go to the party SIL and AP were having for their 2 year old son. SHAKE YOUR HEAD> any rocks in there?
Again the "Happy adultry family" thing eh? Its hard to soar with the eagles when you are surrounded by Turkeys
Your WH still expects you to bend to his wishes so he can be the perfect Dad huh? I have a feeling that... POSOW Promised WH that life would be just grand with her and that he would not lose his relationship with his boys. (WH hasn't realized half of the reason he HAD a good relationship with them was because YOu are their mom.) No BS Scotty really yur awesome. I think POSOW knows this too. So she is scared he will spend time with you. Dummy OW Mu HAHhaAhahaha. she played right into your hands. She will never be able to fill your shoes Scotty, its just a fact. Your kids might have been born at night but it wasn't last night. They know who their Mom is and their will never be a lie good enough that they can tell them that explains why WH left Mom. Boys are about fairness and truth. most can spot that kind of BS a mile away and it seems yours can.
POSOM will never be able to fill his need for family Scotty. She can crawl totally up his behind and still not be able to puppeteer him to believe his family is whole. Whatever lie or fantasy that she is living in, or selling him will be revealed and he will have to admit to himself that he is crazy or become crazy. Then it will be a matter of pride and the willingness to admit being wrong that dictates his actions. If he has nuts he will admit he was an [censored] to you and the boys and come home.
I bet she has to tell yur WH how it will get "better" as he opens his heart to her about how things just don't "feel" right yet.
Keep doing what yur doin scotty, you have your eyes on the right place, Don't let him/them make changes to what you agreed to, I will bet that the POSOW is behind that too. A way for her to make sure her new man can get his "kid" fix. Behind him wanting o see kids is probably him wanting to see you. But you prolly allready know that
Thanx SSO-it means a lot to hear that I am a good person, because sometimes I really don't feel that way. Some times I get so mad at WH that I want to throw in the towel but I know that intellectually I don't want to give up, it is just in emotional times. My RL friends like it when I get MAD but I can't stay like that, it takes too much energy.
I try not to think about POSOW and WH too much anyways. Only when it has to deal with the effects on my kids.
If WH is feeling the effects of his A then good for him. I hope he does feel pain over his actions. I don't know if he has it in him to admit that he was wrong, ever. I am not worrying about him in that way because he has to deal with his own consequences.
In regards to the kids sleeping over at POSOW's house, I will not force the sitch until I am forced to by a court order. That will have to be done by WH since I am not going to file for custody since there is no need at the moment. The kids want to be with me, in their home.
I found out that WH also is now claiming that he is building the kids a new computer and he wants the one in the house, NOT BLOODY LIKELY. He took what he wanted when he left and didn't even mention wanting the computer. Apparently, he feels like the parts for the computer were paid for with his credit card and since I said that is his debt now, he decided the computer is his too. TOO BAD. He can go to court for that too if he wants it so badly. I can play hardball too.
Plan A your kids. Make HOME the "happiest place on earth". Let them make "tents" and camp out in their rooms. Have a living-room picnic dinner. Devise a treasure hunt in the house, leaving clues around. Have a mad-hatter evening where you all wear something that is not a hat on your head. Play "indian poker". http://www.pokersource.com/games/indian-poker.asp Make pizza at home & have the kids choose their toppings. Play the Captain Underpants Name Game and call each other by their secret name for one full day.
You get the idea. Home = peace & no drama & fun & mom's cooking
Use the third letter of your first name to determine your New first name: a = poopsie b = lumpy c = buttercup d = gidget e = crusty f = greasy g = fluffy h = cheeseball i = chim-chim j = stinky k = flunky l = boobie m = pinky n = zippy o = goober p = doofus q = slimy r = loopy s = snotty t = tulefel u = dorkey v = squeezit w = oprah x = skipper y = dinky z = zsa-zsa
Use the second letter of your last name to determine the first half of your new last name: a = apple b = toilet c = giggle d = burger e = girdle f = barf g = lizard h = waffle i = cootie j = monkey k = potty l = liver m = banana n = rhino o = bubble p = hamster q = toad r = gizzard s = pizza t = gerbil u = chicken v = pickle w = chuckle x = tofu y = gorilla z = stinker
Use the fourth letter of your last name to determine the second half of your new last name: a = head b = mouth c = face d = nose e = tush f = breath g = pants h = shorts i = lips j = honker k = butt l = brain m = tushie n = chunks o = hiney p = biscuits q = toes r = buns s = fanny t = sniffer u = sprinkles v = kisser w = squirt x = humperdinck y = brains z = juice
Here's some MB food-for-thought for you to chew on.
In Plan B when the WH has not historically been a been a crappy husband pre-adultery, it is sometimes recommended to occasionally throw out some bait to the alien. Something that says, "Are you ready to come home? Sans OW?".
The risk of this is it draws you into their drama, a little bit. You have to be able to gauge your strength in order to do this. It's not done face to face. More like a gesture, an olive branch. that says, "It's not too late to end your adultery and be a family."
If you get a non-response, or a hostile response, then it's the dark side of the moon.
Trust me, an olive branch from you causes waves of angst in adultery-land. Even if you do not get a positive response from WH, it causes angst.
I'd like you to think about this. And then post your thoughts.
Neak is very good at brainstorming this sort of gesture.
Does WH have some sort of hobby/interest pre-adultery that he stopped doing when he became alien?
And, in case any lurkers in plan B are reading this ....
Quote
In Plan B when the WH has not historically been a been a crappy husband pre-adultery, it is sometimes recommended to occasionally throw out some bait to the alien. Something that says, "Are you ready to come home? Sans OW?".
You should not do this if you have not been in Plan B a month or longer, or if you are lousy at plan B and still feeling desperate and not in control of your emotional outlook. You should not do this if your alien has an addiction of any sort, or is on their second, third, forth adultery, or has otherwise been a lousy husband pre-adultery.
Okay, I KNOW that I could handle this via an email. I would want it to be short. Our dating anniversary is on the 20th and I will have been in Plan B for 2 months and 2 days by then. I would even LOVE to send it at 10:32pm since that is when I officially said, "Yes" to being his GF and he remembers the time as well(he even said this to me over the summer while active in A that twice a day when he sees 10:32 he thinks about us).
He plays an online RPG game but I don't know if he is still playing it. He would play for HOURS a day and we used to argue about the time he spent on there. Not a good thing.
As far as a hobby he did that he no longer does, well, he played Pool A LOT. My sister reminded me that he went to a pool tourney the day our DS9 turned 1. He was at the party a little bit late, but my sister was angry. It didn't bother me as much, we had agreed he would go. Well, he plays in a pool league on Monday nights and he had continued after he moved in with POSOW, but I realized a few weeks ago that he wasn't doing it anymore. We always enjoyed pool together, it was a great common interest and something I definitely miss.
LIGHT BULB-He has stopped reading books for almost a year. By golly I think I've got it. That is something that he given up and I commented about it to him. I don't remember the exact time period he stopped reading books before he went to sleep but this is something he did even before we started dating. Our first few years together was a long distance relationship(his parents live an hour away) so we used to write letters to eachother all of the time. He would often finish his letters with, "I am going to go read and then go to bed." It was something he thoroughly enjoyed and would buy books all of the time. He really likes Star Wars books. It is funny because at the exact moment he stopped reading books as much, I got in to reading.
One more comment about the 20th, that is the Saturday that WH will have them until 630pm and then he will pick them up on Sunday again. That is just some additional info for the sitch.
See I already knew we were coming up on a BAD BAD BAD month. Our first date was a V-Day dance on Feb15th, we went to play pool before the dance. And then, 5 days later, we started "dating" officially. Then Feb 28th we had our first kiss. The Olympics were on then too and we watched them together, while on the phone with eachother(we were 16 and 18 what do you want? HAHAHAHAHA).
I knew February was going to be an extremely emotional month for me.
�Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.�
Some Yoda quotes might be helpful!
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�Do or do not... there is no try.�
Quote
Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Luke... Luke... do not... do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor or suffer your father's fate you will. Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker.�
Problem is that I don't know where POSOW lives. I could probably have my BIL find out for me since I know that POSOW lives near SIL and since BIL has to pick his daughter up there. I told him that I DO NOT want to know where she lives.....too tempting HAHAHAHAHA.
Hmmmmmm what about a new Star Wars book that he doesn't already have and write the note in the book. I can be evil sometimes. [EVIL GRIN]
Just brainstorming. We have time
Even brainstorming about how I would get him the gift. If BIL search doesn't pan out, it could be delivered to their work, but I dunno. Throwing it all out there to create a good plan.
Even brainstorming about how I would get him the gift. If BIL search doesn't pan out, it could be delivered to their work, but I dunno. Throwing it all out there to create a good plan.
Depending on how strong you feel, and how brave ....
When WH drops the kids off, you meet him at his vehicle. Holding your finger to your lips as if to say "Shhhhhh, no talking." You hand him the offering, then silently go back inside.
Are you emotionally ready to do something like this?
I AM, oh wise one.
I know that it will throw me in a tail spin again but I will be prepared for it. It is something that I will initiate so I will have time to prepare. I also know that I have all of you here for the venting I will need. I am not expecting a good response, I am not even expecting ANY response. I will be bracing for a BAD response.
Even brainstorming about how I would get him the gift. If BIL search doesn't pan out, it could be delivered to their work, but I dunno. Throwing it all out there to create a good plan.
Depending on how strong you feel, and how brave ....
When WH drops the kids off, you meet him at his vehicle. Holding your finger to your lips as if to say "Shhhhhh, no talking." You hand him the offering, then silently go back inside.
JUST brainstorming....
I even thought about that one only it would be on the porch of our house instead. Especially if POSOW is still coming with him, I don't know how much self restraint I have. OKAY j/k I have a lot but one can only take so much.
"YESSS yesss your rage is Powerful!!!, I see you are coming over to the dark side now!!"
Hold onto all the stuff you can scot and you are NOT being vindictive or mean to do so. Its pretty clear he doesn't see that he has moved out and left himself in this position. Mostly cuz he still seems to want to breeze in and take whatever he wants when he fancies.
HAng on Scottie "The reactas canna take the stdain Captin" "Dam those aliens and their green blood Jim" "Thers some...thing,,,,on the wing!!!"
Oh I like the olive branch plan too. But you will have to be strong and stay firm on your conditions of conversation. Not let him start on the kids and other subjects. He will try to get his old domestic fix and then blame you if you wont play nice prolly. I dunno if you should see him face to face. Send something IMO. That way he can't say "see how impossible she is? she wont even talk to me. and we have kids together?!!" Waywards are stupid
Plan A your kids. Make HOME the "happiest place on earth". Let them make "tents" and camp out in their rooms. Have a living-room picnic dinner. Devise a treasure hunt in the house, leaving clues around. Have a mad-hatter evening where you all wear something that is not a hat on your head. Play "indian poker". http://www.pokersource.com/games/indian-poker.asp Make pizza at home & have the kids choose their toppings. Play the Captain Underpants Name Game and call each other by their secret name for one full day.
You get the idea. Home = peace & no drama & fun & mom's cooking
And all this at HOME wonderfulness ... will be talked about by the boys ... they just love sharing their fun with Mom, you bet'cha !
Every time one of the kids sez: "We did such-and-such at HOME" ... is a reminder to WH that HOME is where YOU are .... not adulteryland.
I am taking care of me. I am eating better and sleeping GREAT most nights(except for those dreams). I bought myself a few pairs of pants from Walmart yesterday because they were on clearance and I figured with the way I have been losing weight(although I don't weigh myself so I don't have a number) that they would fit me by summer. I brought them home and tried them on and 2 pairs fit ALREADY. I haven't been this size since pre-kids. I was so excited.
As far as not seeing face to face, I could leave a book on DS7's booster seat, since WH has to get that to take DS7 in his truck.
Brainstorming, throwing things out there. I don't know if I could handle a face to face. I haven't seen him since Dec 18th.
I am working on Plan A-ing the boys, although I never thought of it like that before. We started a tradition of movie night on Fridays, just before WH left. I also started family games night on Mondays(which DS9 tells WH what games we are playing and that he wants to hang up so he can play with me.) Even having the kids' friends come over for a visit is new. After school, we have always stayed late so they can play with their friends(and us Mom's can talk too). I keep the traditions alive, and try to make new ones. I will definitely make new ones.
Nake doesn't answer her phone. I don't know where she is or when she'll be back. I think not having kids at home to school every day is making her giddy. That's what I think!
Nake doesn't answer her phone. I don't know where she is or when she'll be back. I think not having kids at home to school every day is making her giddy. That's what I think!
tl
It is something that can wait. I just think Pep is a little IMPATIENT hahahahahahahaha
Well, if she's outdoors and away from home being giddy, where, at this moment, it is -6F with a light snow and a windchill factor to -22F, all I can say is that I hope Neak ain't nake!
I would hope that NEAK isn't NAKE in that weather either. It is cold here too but the SUN is SHINNING. It is a GLORIOUS day.
In an hour I will be picking up 4 boys from school for their play date and pizza dinner. So I won't be on until after family games night tonight, so no rush. But if anyone else has some ideas.
I also thought maybe I would contact a man who plays pool with WH and ask him which book on pool he would suggest I buy. He also teaches pool so he would know what book would be right for my WH's experience and aptitude.
I like the book idea, a new Star Wars book. Perhaps write in it, "We can still be a family, the boys deserve it, I deserve it, and especially you deserve it."
I would wear some of your new clothes, when he comes to the door to get the kids open it, tell him you miss him, give him a hug/kiss, hand him the book (with mail?), scoot the kids out, then shut the door...if he says he wants to talk, you can ask, are you no longer seeing OW? If the answer is no, then say, talk with me when she is gone, shut the door.
Or you could open the door when he comes to get the kids, be dressed and ready to go out, scoot the kids out, shut the door behind you as you walk out too, hand him the letter/package/book and get on your cell phone and say "I'm on my way" and giggle. Then walk to your car and head out... Never mind that you are driving around the block or just made plans to meet a friend for coffee, let him know you are not waiting at home but have a LIFE!
Or you could open the door when he comes to get the kids, be dressed and ready to go out, scoot the kids out, shut the door behind you as you walk out too, hand him the letter/package/book and get on your cell phone and say "I'm on my way" and giggle. Then walk to your car and head out... Never mind that you are driving around the block or just made plans to meet a friend for coffee, let him know you are not waiting at home but have a LIFE!
I don't have a car. Also, this past weekend POSOW was in MY seat in his truck(if he were to ever come back, I will have to burn that seat and get a new one HAHAHAHAHA), I don't think I could totally control myself around her. I will be able to one day, but it's still too hard for that. Besides, it will be emotional enough for me to see WH, if I choose to do a face to face.
Although there were MANY MANY people who helped me see things, I attribute my newly BS fog being lifted by YOU. (reference Pep)
Scotty,
While I am in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, taking anything away from GODDESS PEP, I hope you do realize she helped you find the the attributes, strenght, and courage that was always in YOU. This is what a good and knowledgable counselor, friend, and confidant does.
Deep down, it was always within you.....sometimes we just need to help to find it.....
not2fun
ps...I was the same way when I first got here.....I will always be indebted to those who helped me find my PERSONAL POWER.....
Not giddy or nake, yikes! Do you KNOW how cold it is today??? Our wind chill is -21.
I had to run an errand for AJ to Plentywood, and get some water as long as I was at it. Then I come home and find out I have missed out on a love-fest in my honor. Well I luvs yer all back loike, and now I'm really gonna hafta think, cuz all the ideas are so fab already. (That's what happens to Neakie-come-latelys.)
Don't worry Not, you are one of them too. Pep just seemd to be the one to give me the kick in the pants I needed in the way that got through.
I am GRATEFUL to all of you.
Every time I was called a "rock star" I would cringe. I didn't think I was doing anything special. I was following along with what you guys were suggesting. Not always perfectly, and still slipping along the way, but I was listening. You guys were the vets and I know when to shut up and listen.
Sometimes a good kick in the pants is exactly what I need.
So far of the delivery methods, I like the in person with shhhh best, however if OW horns along again it might lose some of it's impact when you go shhhhgaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH as you leap through the car window and close your fingers around her neck. So do that only if WH comes alone.
On the booster sounds good and reliable as a backup choice.
Now what what what to get? I've been trying to think if there's a Star Wars book about pool, but keep drawing a blank. For some reason.
You've got some great starters as to what to look for in either pool stuff or SW books, so whichever one you find, try to find a card that covers the other interest. So if you find a pool movie, look for a SW card.
And whatever one you end up getting, put a cute little message in Yodese written on/in it.
I'm thinking, "Still room for you in family there is..."
"When dump skankho you do, speak I will to you..." not so much.
I don't know Pep....everytime I hear that I get this voice of Dude007..."Party like a ROCKSTAR...." going in my head.....THAT would make me cringe......
In short, yes I think this is a good idea. Being me, you can expect additional explanations to follow.
On the one hand, it's just a little early in the game for a routinely scheduled olive branch ~but~ all the special dates trump the early.
It's not an exact science, and I think without the special dates I would have recommended another 3-4 weeks. But just as Plan B around Christmas, annis, or B-days can be a real gut-puncher to a WS, so can a brief peek of the lighthouse around a date fraught with a lifetime of glowing memories.
Thus, I think this is too good to waste as long as our girl is up to it, which it sounds like she is.
Another thing I really like to do when someone in a great PB starts the olive branch system, is to make it really regular. Say, on the first day of the month, every other month. Or whatever...just spread out and predictable.
If she could pull off the dressing up and "date-maybe?" ruse it would be sweet. She could dress up and tell the kids she was going out with some GFs but of course, with a sexy dress and perfume...WH would think differently?? yes no?
I like the monthly olive branch with the sudden stop too neak
Gotta tell you a funny. When we were kids, Mom read us a great mission story called "Little Treasure", about a boy in Haiti becoming a Christian against the will of his voodoo-practicing family.
One chapter was called "The Secret of Sor Anise," and my younger brother carefully sounded it out to see what we'd be reading next. "The Secret of Sore Anus." Well, if you had one, wouldn't you want to keep it a secret, too?
Yes, there was another poster on here that olive branched this way...would have a man call her cell or home number just at the right time...OK, it was a cousin...and be packing an overnight bag as the WH was picking up the kids...OK, just a dressed up gym bag, but whatevah...
The WH live with the fantasy the BW is sitting at home waiting for them, and keep this thought alive that they could always come home if things went south with the OW. We know we are, but not forever, and making it seem like we are moving on a little sooner than they want us to really gets them thinking...can they truly live without us? Well, can they? And as the OW's demands and selfishness come out, then the BW doesn't look so bad any more...but what if she's moving on?
When my H moved out, it was the olive branches that brought him back. But I did not throw the first one for about 3 months...
Think of it as clearing the path back to your door. It has gotten a bit snow covered, just needs to be cleared so he can see it...
Perhaps you have a H/W friend...invite them over for the Saturday nite drop off, but the lady friend will just happen to be in the bathroom during the exchange. Perhaps an introduction at the door? "Hello WH, this is my friend..." Make sure you are dressed to go out...
Are you seriously saying this for the benefit of 2 special nurses you might know? Nurses with some >ahem< experience with sore backsides as well as backside sores?
When WH comes to pick up the boys, it is 9am and I am going to work. He drops them back off at 630 pm. This Sunday is V-Day so I thought about getting my Mom to be here at 630 and be at the door to take the kids in the house. I wouldn't be home, but I would come home after WH left. I thought this might get him thinking a little. "Hmmmmm where is she?" I would just have my Mom say to the kids, "Mommy will be home in a bit."
I dunno if I should try this one and then 6 days later extend the "olive branch".
I found it online, but I have to have it soon, so I am going to figure it out. If my sister is going to the states this week, then I can have it shipped to her BF's PO box and it will be cheaper in shipping and it should arrive faster. I have to find out from her tonight.
As far as his music, he likes punk and hard rock/ska. It is hard for me to know what songs because I realized that in the past year or so(I have been looking back over things that changed and I think the A went PA about a year ago) he started listening to depressing music, with very angry undertones and he started swearing a lot and watching UFC all of the time. I made many comments about it being different and he disregarded it.
On another note, DS9 was talking to WH when he told him that he felt uncomfortable having POSOW and her child in the truck when he is dropping them off and picking them up. WH asked if it was what I told him and DS9 answered, "Mommy told me that I should tell you the things that bother me because I have to let them out so I won't erupt like a volcano." This was the way the counselor explained what happens when you bottle up your emotions. I am a proud Mama.
I think WH believes it more readily from DS9 than DS7 because DS7 can say some mean things sometimes. He has said many, many times that he hates WH. I know he loves him, but he gets mad. He's not one that cares what his words will do to others. I have tried to teach him, but at the same time, I want him to be honest. It's a fine line.
He did say something really funny the other day though. He asked me, "Mommy if you die in SPACE, do you still go to Heaven." I asked him to repeat the question and then I said, "Of course you would honey." It was just out of thin air. He is really fun like that though, keeps me on my toes.
For picking music and movies, pick things he used to like. Hearing the familiar tunes brings back feelings of how he used to be, and what he used to be like. Who cares what he likes now? Sorry, but true.
As far as the text, I have mixed feelings. It's a neat idea, and will definitely cause ripples of trouble. On the con side, it's a medium through which he can respond. Just setting out a gift leaves him with not very much to say, and not so many ways to say it, lol.
Now the ValDay thing we can have fun with. Having Mom over to babysit for the drop-off is wonderful. Now the idea that immediately sprang to mind has varying degrees of naughty, and may not work. Gotta toss it out there anyway.
Lower key involves a Valentine's bouquet clearly visible through the door, or window, or whatever. You can even put together your own with a couple items from the dollar store.
A little more elaborate would be leaving a bouquet of flowers, or a stuffed animal arrangement on the front porch, and your mom picks it up when he gets there, maybe even calling thank you to WH.
And if you think that isn't naughty enough, more in keeping with the spirit of Plan B, she could pick it up and march it out to him, saying, "Thank you, but I know Scotland won't accept this." And let him try to figure out who it's from and whether he should return it.
Lol, well it's a great fantasy anyway. Something simpler would be better, if anything. You don't want to go too far overboard in shaking him up, but if there are a few innocent things he happens to notice that, in his mind, add up to some possible competition, that's fine. You just don't want to be deceitful by giving that impression directly, but you can't help it if he jumps to conclusions, either.
I like the "mystery bouquet" idea myself, with 1 morething... lets seee.. neak you gotta have a grand finale' Um if there was some way he could do his normal uninvited phone call and hear music in the background? Nah to sleazy.. Something about Mom going out this weekend with freinds and a new dress? A rumor yes YES .
No better yet shes going out with a guy...not just some guy.. a model.. no wait BRAD PITT. yes Thats the Ticket..
But serious would you be willing to use the boys to start a rumor? You don't have to make them lie. Just tell them you are going out with some girls while they are with WH. Talk about your new dress and put on to much perfume.
A beard can be shaved off, but I wouldn't date a man that cheated on his wife.(other than my own H I guess, I realized what I said here)
I am going to be going to work that day, and then I will just stay out late so my mom will be there, but that's if she doesn't have plans.
I do plan on going out a few times and dropping the kids off at my friend's house, but the kids say that WH doesn't ask about me. They wouldn't bring up that I went out, they would say it in a way like this, "We were at Friend's house today and it was fun." When WH may ask, "Where was Mommy?"
I ordered the DVD. My sister's BF has a CD of his old favourite band. So I have a DVD and a CD. I thought about something though. What if he doesn't take the present? Or what if he brings it back with him?
I know, I know......here
It doesn't matter. I am doing this for ME.
If he doesn't accept my olive branch, I will have an awesome movie and CD.
You said that you have to work on Valentine's Day.
Before the boys leave, lay out a nice dress (or wear a really nice dress if it will do for work), along with nice heels. Take extra pains with your makeup and spritz on just enough extra perfume to make the boys notice. When they ask what you're doing, tell them that you have somewhere "grown-up" to go right after work, but that you will be home not long after they are. When you come home, bring a small posy of flowers with you that a friend gave you. Come into the house, humming and in a happy mood.
To keep from lying to the boys, go out for a drink with a female friend, and give her the money to buy the posy so she can hand them to you.
Now, I bet the boys tell their dad that mom is gonna get all dressed up after work to go to a grown-up place and that she was smelling real good.
Oughta keep WH lost in thought all day long on Valentine's Day!
EVIL GENIUS YOU ARE.........Oh no I am stuck in Yodaese. HAHAHAHA
That will be a good one. Now fingers crossed that my Mom will come over for a bit on Sunday for me. She said she wasn't in to celebrating that day anyways since it is my parent's anniv(I was so tempted to use annis HEHEHEHEHE)
That's not what I was thinking, and that's why I was asking if I should still do the thing on V-day if I plan on 6 days later extending this olive branch.
My WH and I had talked about this before and he said that he knew that then I was saying that I would reconcile, but that didn't mean I would always want to do that. This was before I found MB and I think I said that it was what I wanted at the time.
I never said I would wait forever and I never set a deadline or said that there were things I wouldn't forgive.
If the suggestion is that I forgo the V-Day "stage play" and focus instead on my olive branch plan, that is what I will do.
Do not lose sight of the purpose of the olive branch. It is to say to WH:
"It's not too late."
Because, most waywards DO think it is too late. They cannot see beyond their own nose, they are too short sighted.
Be certain the unintended message of "I have already moved on." is not mistakenly sent.
This is very important, especially in PlanB I reckon. Even in my PlanA, my WS will try and accuse me of not being willing to reconcile. It needs to be stated clearly and often in PlanA, and any schemes you cook up in PlanB should consider this.
On my scale, you count as 2(I think I have a girl crush on you now hehehehehehe).
I will wait for the peanut gallery to chime in, I have time.
What do you think about me going out for a few hours a couple of times and dropping the kids off at my friend's house? I have a recently D HS friend of mine that has been DYING to see me. She goes to school so I can only see her at night.
(I think I have a girl crush on you now hehehehehehe).
Quote
What do you think about me going out for a few hours a couple of times and dropping the kids off at my friend's house? I have a recently D HS friend of mine that has been DYING to see me. She goes to school so I can only see her at night.
I think it's a super idea to treat yourself to such a fun time!
Remember this, the messages OW wants you to send to your husband are as follows: #1. "I've moved on."
#2. "I am no longer interested in marriage reconciliation."
Don't have too much fun while I am sleeping. I will check in with the voting and thoughts in the morning.
I think I already know what I should do though. Forgo the V-day ideas and focus on the olive branch. Expect no response from WH, but understand that it is my way of letting him know that there is a way home.
Okay, so I have the DVD and CD coming. Do I wrap them nicely and maybe spray my perfume on the paper? Then I would write a short note that says.....
I am a planner, so I am trying to figure out exactly what to say and how to act. I already have my clothes picked out, how sad......hehehehehe.
Certainly don't do anything elaborate for Val-day. Flowers are fun to have around any time though, either then or later.
It's a fine line between making them wonder a little and thinking you've moved on. Less is more for these fun little brain-scrambling forays.
Focus on the gifts, and you'll know when the right time is to go out for the evening and have flowers. Maybe even shortly before the next olive branch a couple months down the road.
Too bad that new DVDs and CDs are so tightly sealed. What I would want to do is to pray a little perfume on my finger and put a barely there smidgeon of it on the CD paper insert. That way, everytime he opened the case, he'd get a whiff of you.
What you want is just a HINT of your scent...enough to bring you to mind without his realizing that it's your perfume he's smelling.
It is a WWPW(what would Pep write) and yea kinda like WWJD.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
TJ
I know I'm horribly behind, and I'm trying to catch up. I thought I'd chime in here and comment that I channel Pep, Mel, Neak, T&L, Starfish and Ark IRL.
We are going through some *stuff* IRL that is not infidelity related but very much has to do with morals and doing the right thing. In the beginning of this my husband and I were talking about it and I could actually *hear* what Mel would say about doing right and that's just what I counciled the husband unit to do.
The aforementioned ladies are in my life because of an act of Providence, imo. I'll never not listen to them. I thought I knew my life better than they did once upon a time. I thought I was speshul...it wasn't till I LISTENED to them that I became better than special.
I don't think you should do either, not the V-day thing or the olive branch. I was thinking on this last night, and really Plan B is NC with the WS. The olive branch would be going against what was written in your PBL. Essentually, you told WS to not contact to you and respect your wishes, but then you break that contact and yet expect him to adhere to the terms of the letter.
I totally get why Pep was suggesting this, but it seems to me that it goes against the grain of what Plan B is all about.....
It would make sense to me if an olive branch was extended if the affair were to end and he doesn't make any contact with you.....but at this early in the game, it seems very contradictory to what Plan B is supposed to accomplish
Don't have too much fun while I am sleeping. I will check in with the voting and thoughts in the morning.
I think I already know what I should do though. Forgo the V-day ideas and focus on the olive branch. Expect no response from WH, but understand that it is my way of letting him know that there is a way home.
Okay, so I have the DVD and CD coming. Do I wrap them nicely and maybe spray my perfume on the paper? Then I would write a short note that says.....
I am a planner, so I am trying to figure out exactly what to say and how to act. I already have my clothes picked out, how sad......hehehehehe.
I'd forgo the V-Day thing for now. The olive branch is a goodie, though.
The olive branch idea is something that is sometimes recommended by SH, and isn't intended to be a back-and-forth exchange. All it does is let a possibly despairing WS know that they still have the option to come home. It doesn't meet enough EN's to have a high risk of prolonging the A, just lets them know it's not too late...yet.
I wouldn't normally recommend this in a patchy Plan B, however, I can't speak for SH.
The olive branch idea is something that is sometimes recommended by SH, and isn't intended to be a back-and-forth exchange. All it does is let a possibly despairing WS know that they still have the option to come home. It doesn't meet enough EN's to have a high risk of prolonging the A, just lets them know it's not too late...yet.
I wouldn't normally recommend this in a patchy Plan B, however, I can't speak for SH.
Thanks for the explanation Neak. Makes some sort of sense. I do fear though that by her offering the olive branch that WH would see this as a breaking of her boundaries outlined in the PBL. He has already tried multiple times to by-pass the IM, even recently. That worries me.
And I will say though, this was something I suggested to Queenie off-line when her WH had ended his A but hadn't made any move towards her. She was unsure of what to do, he started showing up at her son's lacrosse matches again, and I suggested kind of the same thing. Of course, she had been in a SUPER DARK Plan B for nearly a year and I thought she should let him know she hadn't closed the door to the marriage. Well, actually she thought she should do this and I agreed......
Not-I get what you are saying, and even my RL friends asked me the same thing. I do remember reading in an article or on a thread on here that some times a limited contact during Plan B is warranted.
I am gong to forgo the V-Day thing for sure, I don't think it would go along with an olive branch.
These are the dates from our past in Feb.(differing years)
Feb 1-We moved in together Feb 14-V-day Feb 15-Our first date(a dance) Feb 20-The day we started dating, he ended that call with ILY Feb 21-The day he asked me to marry him(it was a year later, not the next day HHAHAHAHA) Feb 28-our first kiss So all of our "anniversaries" are contained in this month with exception to our wedding day. He even picked the 20th though since it was the same as our "dating" anniv.
Feb 20-The day we started dating, he ended that call with ILY
I like this date.
Here are my reasons for thinking the olive branch might be a good idea at this time.
1. Scotty herself - her ability to do her plan of action, no matter how difficult. I think she is strong enough to have no expectations. The most important criteria, in my mind. She also knows herself and will speak up if she's not ready.
2. The kids - they are worth Scotty taking this risk. They are stressed. They are also stressing the affair. They are not "playing" the adultery family game. (God love them !)
3. The wayward husband - He liked Scotty's plan A. He's not a bad man under normal circumstances. He's a typical wayward with typical wayward fears. "She will never take me back now. I've gone too far." He has not filed for divorce !
4. My cat Simba told me it was time. (Just checking to see if you're paying attention).
5. Less importance than my cat Simba, the OW herself. I think she's become clingy and pushing too hard. OWs want the wife to just go away. OWs want the wife to lovebust the WH. What OWs do not want is the wife to say ....
"Stop this madness.Come home. It's not too late for you to come home."
Like Neak says, it's not an exact science. Hence, it's debatable.
IMO it needs to be brief and direct. A touch of sentiment, but not too much.
"Remember this day? You told me you loved me. It's not to late to stop this madness, come home."
If WH breaks plan B - the broken record is (thank you Mimi)
"Have you completely broken it off with OW?"
The wayward will usually say:
"I'm going to."
Response is:
" Call me when you have."
The other stuff. I think that is really premature. I think the olive branch will cause the affair angst, cause the OW angst, and make Scotty look like the gem who he's letting go.
Watch the DVD with them if it is age appropriate (maybe they will mention it to dad sometime while with him).....later leave the DVD for WH (after watching it yourself)
Big bouquet of flowers for your home (visible from front door).
CD playing kind of loud while pick up time occurs.
Feb 20-The day we started dating, he ended that call with ILY
I like this date.
Here are my reasons for thinking the olive branch might be a good idea at this time.
1. Scotty herself - her ability to do her plan of action, no matter how difficult. I think she is strong enough to have no expectations. The most important criteria, in my mind. She also knows herself and will speak up if she's not ready.
2. The kids - they are worth Scotty taking this risk. They are stressed. They are also stressing the affair. They are not "playing" the adultery family game. (God love them !)
3. The wayward husband - He liked Scotty's plan A. He's not a bad man under normal circumstances. He's a typical wayward with typical wayward fears. "She will never take me back now. I've gone too far." He has not filed for divorce !
4. My cat Simba told me it was time. (Just checking to see if you're paying attention).
5. Less importance than my cat Simba, the OW herself. I think she's become clingy and pushing too hard. OWs want the wife to just go away. OWs want the wife to lovebust the WH. What OWs do not want is the wife to say ....
"Stop this madness.Come home. It's not too late for you to come home."
Like Neak says, it's not an exact science. Hence, it's debatable.
IMO it needs to be brief and direct. A touch of sentiment, but not too much.
"Remember this day? You told me you loved me. It's not to late to stop this madness, come home."
If WH breaks plan B - the broken record is (thank you Mimi)
"Have you completely broken it off with OW?"
The wayward will usually say:
"I'm going to."
Response is:
" Call me when you have."
The other stuff. I think that is really premature. I think the olive branch will cause the affair angst, cause the OW angst, and make Scotty look like the gem who he's letting go.
ITA with all of this. While reading this thread I kept thinking it is too early for the "other stuff". The olive branch is good, everything else is too much.
Feb 20-The day we started dating, he ended that call with ILY
I like this date.
Here are my reasons for thinking the olive branch might be a good idea at this time.
1. Scotty herself - her ability to do her plan of action, no matter how difficult. I think she is strong enough to have no expectations. The most important criteria, in my mind. She also knows herself and will speak up if she's not ready.
2. The kids - they are worth Scotty taking this risk. They are stressed. They are also stressing the affair. They are not "playing" the adultery family game. (God love them !)
3. The wayward husband - He liked Scotty's plan A. He's not a bad man under normal circumstances. He's a typical wayward with typical wayward fears. "She will never take me back now. I've gone too far." He has not filed for divorce !
4. My cat Simba told me it was time. (Just checking to see if you're paying attention).
5. Less importance than my cat Simba, the OW herself. I think she's become clingy and pushing too hard. OWs want the wife to just go away. OWs want the wife to lovebust the WH. What OWs do not want is the wife to say ....
"Stop this madness.Come home. It's not too late for you to come home."
Like Neak says, it's not an exact science. Hence, it's debatable.
IMO it needs to be brief and direct. A touch of sentiment, but not too much.
"Remember this day? You told me you loved me. It's not to late to stop this madness, come home."
If WH breaks plan B - the broken record is (thank you Mimi)
"Have you completely broken it off with OW?"
The wayward will usually say:
"I'm going to."
Response is:
" Call me when you have."
The other stuff. I think that is really premature. I think the olive branch will cause the affair angst, cause the OW angst, and make Scotty look like the gem who he's letting go.
Gotcha......
I have to say I thought of Mimi when this idea was thrown out there. I could hear her telling me about the turmoil that was caused to HER when she broke Plan B....but I concur, that really only Scotty KNOWS what she can handle or not....
Oh, I keep WAITING for OW to start LB with the money issue. Since, WH seems to still be giving MOST of his paycheck to Scotty, you just KNOW that OW is not going to like being a "sugar mama" for much longer.....plus, it makes WH look BAD in her eyes when he is not pulling his weight.....not that we really "know" what is going on in Affairland.....
ok, commence Plan Olive Branch...
not2fun
ps...Scotty, I want to tell you I jumped for joy and did a dance (ok, it was in my head, but you know what I mean.....) when I read about your son telling WH about how he is not happy OW is around for the drop-offs......abso-freaking-lutely AWESOME!!!!!
As far as WH having not used the IMs, I have since found out that he was trying too. He was emailing them, they gave me their password and I looked at the emails. Nothing too bad so I wasn't that affected by it. But he had been emailing them since Jan5th. There were 5 emails about wanting the computer and about having the kids on overnights. He was a little angry in them about having to make multiple trips and wasting gas. Like my one RL friend said, "He could move back to the city and then he wouldn't have to worry about so much gas money." I like my friends.
As far as the financial sitch, I know that OW will be asking for the money soon. I even told WH about that before I knew they were having an A, when I thought he was just leaving "to think". I told him that his idea for the finances were nice but that when he found himself a new GF, that she wouldn't be happy about it. He said that his finances were his business. He did start searching work from home opportunities before he left. Also DS9 said that WH is selling his Star Wars toys on the computer. DS9 only mentioned it because he wanted to play with the toys.
I will spray a bit of perfume on the sleeve of the CD, and then my sister's BF can re-wrap it for me. He has the wrap because he buys and sells stuff on ebay.
I have some important mail that is his too. What do you think to me handing him the mail and "package" at the same time? Maybe even in a bag. Just throwing it out there. I think if I give him a "gift" he may not take it. If it was with other things, he may just bring it back when he dropped off the kids and leave it on the porch.
I have no expectations, I am just preparing myself emotionally. Best case scenario, he takes it and I don't hear about it. Medium case, he doesn't take it. Worst case, he brings it back. Even if he never looks at it, I would never know, so it wouldn't affect me.
Scotty...FYI, I TMed with a good friend (long-ago poster) from here whose WH married the OW, I believe a little over a year ago.
She has been hearing from their DDs that all is NOT well in affair-land...that OW cries all the time and WH is a yelling, grumpy man, very unlike how he was when they were married.
I am telling you this so that you will believe that all is not always good in A-land. It's usually pretty sucky.
I hope this helps you sleep better tonight...I know I was happy to hear this. Karma is a b*tch, baby!
Scotty...FYI, I TMed with a good friend (long-ago poster) from here whose WH married the OW, I believe a little over a year ago.
She has been hearing from their DDs that all is NOT well in affair-land...that OW cries all the time and WH is a yelling, grumpy man, very unlike how he was when they were married.
I am telling you this so that you will believe that all is not always good in A-land. It's usually pretty sucky.
I hope this helps you sleep better tonight...I know I was happy to hear this. Karma is a b*tch, baby!
Don't worry I am WELL AWARE. Actually my Mom was at my house today, she asked me, half-joking, if I had her bed ready? We only have a two bedroom house so I said she could crash on the couch and we both laffed. Then she asked me where I was going to put the Wardrobe that my great aunt gave her that I have always liked and I would get when she passed. I told her and then she said I should make room because it was going to be coming over soon. Not that she is thinking about dying, it is because she is seriously thinking about leaving POSOM. She came to my house today and he TOLD her what time she HAD to leave and he called her 5 times(she was only here for 4 hours).
She is feeling it BIG TIME. She is not sure about going back to my dad though, but she did make one final joke as she was leaving. POSOM was outside IMPATIENTLY waiting for her to come out, when he called again, I DIDN'T answer the phone, I have no use for him, and the answering machine picked up. She said to the machine "What are you going to do? Leave? I Know where I can walk and it's CLOSE." My Dad lives 12 blocks away from me. I laffed. She said" WHAT" and I said "You're hilarious."
I see the cracks but my Mom and Dad want to do this their way. I help where I can.
Then there's my SIL. She is MISERABLE in her A with POSOM. Although her BH has moved on(but he won't file), she talks to him all of the time. They have a SICK SICK SICK relationship. But she is my WHs sister and she told me that WH will never come back to me and that he will be happy like she is. Believe me my lip was BLEEDING from biting it so hard.
My BIL moved all the way to Vancouver to be with his POSOW and within 6 months, he was home. Their D was final and my sister is a lot happier but her XH told her that if she didn't have a BF he would have tried.
I know that there is not always roses and butterflies in affairland, I just didn't think POSOW was stupid enough to do it this soon.
I have such a warm fuzzy right now! Our friend already moved on to the happiness she so richly deserves, doing well even as a single mom. I've been wondering what took the whole thing so long to implode, and even though it hasn't yet, a Wayward Codger and Waterpot Wistress bring the beginnings of justice to each other. Wonder how long till one of them cheats?
Scottie, as to your mom's OM, I just want to toss this out there for you to think about - maybe the next time he calls for any reason tell him to stop calling your home, as it's an adultery-free zone.
Besides the obvious benefit of upholding what IMO is a very good boundary, and has the side bonus of putting even more pressure on an A.
Okay I am about to head off to bed and I work tomorrow. I do have a question though. I am going to use Neak's suggested "Once upon a time you said you loved me, we can still live happily ever after." Now is this what I say to him when I give him the "package" or is this what I write in the CD? or both?
As we get closer to the date, I will be rehearsing it in my head. I will think of all of the reactions so I will be ready emotionally. I KNOW I CAN DO THIS. I just like to get myself prepared, you should see what I have to do to order a PIZZA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Did Neak really put a comma between those two phrases? If she did, I'm revoking her author's license! You need either a period or a semi-colon. If you use a comma, it means he said both phrases, when in reality, the second one is coming from you and is certainly nothing he'd be saying to you right now, at any rate! Well, must go. I have some other nit to pick before bedtime!
I'm glad to see I am not the only nitpicker around!
I will take a newspaper, or a paper someone wrote and fix the grammatical errors, parallelism, comma usage and colon usage as well as poorly written run-on sentences.
Sometimes I hate myself but I won't ignore the nitpicker. It gives me something to do.
When my wife left for another man after 19 years of marriage it was at a time where I was recooperating from an accident and out of work. Now mind you she had been hiding a drug addiction for two years and her "dark-side" had been influencing her force for quite a while. I had allways had to deal with some childish behavior and some selfishness before but in the last two years she had gotten pretty bad. I was very weak and beaten down and the only thing I could be sure of I had was my family and that we would pull through as allways.
My daughter, who was 18 at the time, doted on my wife, she was her best freind and an awesome Mom in the past. (oops allmost a run-on). DD still is mourning her Mom and fighting depression from the loss. ..Well She knew Mom was screwing up and being childish, leaving Dad to be with some guy she was spinning some BS about abuse and so on. The family went homeless, DS 16 went to live with freinds, DS 14 lived with DD 18, and I ended up on the streets. Mom was living with her cuckold who owned his own house, had a classic Harley, a Vette and a great job. He also took her on vacations in the keys and offered the kids to move in with them, which the two boys tryed but despised what their mom had become. The boys would rather live with me wherever I was and DD supported herself just fine.
One day Cuckold and WW invited my daughter and her BF at the time over for dinner. WW was telling DD how they were going to buy a house and how cute it was gonna be blah blah and when wife was done talking DD said " Thats very nice Mom but I will never be visiting you there" WW was flabbergasted of course, Didn't DD see that everything she was doing was for her?
Waywards will do anything to win a battle but lose the war. After my WW came home and was in treatment DD and DSs put her mistakes behind them and we were close again and the Kids are still shining examples of living in the truth about love. We all miss the Mom we knew lived inside the alien that took over her. Sometimes thats just all you have. But its the truth we hold onto while we wait for the lightbulb to go off in our loved ones heads and its a test of faith. Faith that God can work in ppls lives where we can't and that all we can do is stand for what he says love is.
One thing my Pastor used to say is. "People will so often sacrifice the permenant on the alter of the immediate"
Did Neak really put a comma between those two phrases? If she did, I'm revoking her author's license! You need either a period or a semi-colon. If you use a comma, it means he said both phrases, when in reality, the second one is coming from you and is certainly nothing he'd be saying to you right now, at any rate! Well, must go. I have some other nit to pick before bedtime!
tl
SORRY NEAK
She can still retain her author's license. I was the one who put the comma in there. She had a period. I get LAZY with punctuation when it isn't "official". My HS English teacher would be VERY angry with me right now. He wrote to the editors of newspapers all of the time about their mistakes in their papers.
I was the one who put the comma in there. She had a period.
That's good. It just made me worried about her. I've just been reading her 2nd book to two of her sister's kids. I was the final proofreader for it before it left her hands and went to the publisher and I could SWEAR there are punctuation errors in that thing I never let pass, so my sensitivities had been heightened well before I went on MB last night to read the latest.
Quote
I get LAZY with punctuation when it isn't "official".
Ordinarily, I wouldn't say anything to anybody (except Neak or Neaksis). It's an internet message board, for Pete's sake. Besides, I find language errors endlessly entertaining, the result of growing up in a household where there were always foreign students, learning their very first words of English. Our family still sometimes says "watimate" for "vomit", and that mistake entered our personal lexicon over 40 years ago. In my defense, I will say that I laugh at my own linguistic blunders with just as much amusement as I do at others' mistakes.
The reason that I pointed this one out is because it changed the meaning of the sentence, and turned a deft little arrow of sentiment and remembrance into a disputable opinion; Instead of possibly being touched by the hint that all was not lost, I worried that it would simply give him the opportunity to splutter, "I never said that!"...waywards being what they are.
OK, English teachers' daughter retiring from the lists. Keep up the good work.
I don't care if that email addy is out there...there is no real name attached to it anyhow and it just confirms that I am not a real person...merely an anonymous screenname on a message board.
I don't care if that email addy is out there...there is no real name attached to it anyhow and it just confirms that I am not a real person...merely an anonymous screenname on a message board.
HA! I can confirm a real person is on the other end of that computer.
FWIW, I vote to give him that little gem [ahem, ahem] in writing. WS's have such a short attention span that it'll be in one ear and out the other.
"Uhhhhh yeah, I remember she said something really nice to me. What was it? What, what, what?" (smiles dreamily) "YOU JERK! YOU'RE THINKING OF HER AGAIN, AREN'T YOU????" "Wha- what? Of course not. Only of you, Blopsie!" (to self: oh, crud)
So you see it's not a total waste of time to only say it, even though the exact words will be forgotten quickly, but much better to have a tangible object to moon over. That is moon in the old sense of the word.
I don't care if that email addy is out there...there is no real name attached to it anyhow and it just confirms that I am not a real person...merely an anonymous screenname on a message board.
You are NOT a pygmy of my imagination...I've got pics!!!!!!!!!!! (and vice versa)
I don't care if that email addy is out there...there is no real name attached to it anyhow and it just confirms that I am not a real person...merely an anonymous screenname on a message board.
HA! I can confirm a real person is on the other end of that computer.
WHAT?!?!?! I am for real?!?! I thought I was just a figment of my own imagination...
THIS IS MY THREAD PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
HAHAHAHAHA just kidding. You guys are welcome to t/j my thread anytime. I got home and saw there were 18 new posts since I last was on my thread and I was thinking, "What did they have to say so much about what I posted this morning? What did I post this morning?" It was quite humourous in my brain for a moment.
WOW. DS7 is having a bad day at home today. I am keeping my patience close at hand. It is a trying day today. On the plus side, the kids have their V-day party at school tomorrow, so we are going to be writing up the cards for their friends. Also, tomorrow is the 100th day of school for the year so they have celebrations. DS7 has to bring 100 of something to school.
Work was good. I had a customer actually stop me and say, "Have you lost A LOT of weight?" My answer of course was, "That's what I've been told."
Oh I forgot, my Mom found an old pic of WH and I(we have very few pics together). My sister suggested that I make a copy and give it to WH. THOUGHTS?
Fantastic idea, put it in with the note/gift/whatever you are giving him...
You know what we did for the 100th day of school this year? Our first grader made a sticker book with 10 stickers on 10 pages...it was fun and very easy to do. And cute too, we sent it to my mom when she was done with it with a note that said "I love you Grammy, Love, P~". Sooooo cute!
"Why yes, I've lost weight - around 200 stubborn pounds."
I thought of this one. WH weighs more like 180. HEHEHEHEHE
I guess people keep telling me that I have lost weight and they keep asking me what I have been doing. All that I can think of is that I drink a lot of water and pretty much nothing else. I haven't gone to fast food restaurants since July(I went to BK yesterday with the kids and I got a SALAD to go). I stopped taking birth control pills in May(when I started taking them I gained 40 pounds in 1 year). And lastly, and possibly more difficult, I gave up POP(Soda to you American folk). My wedding ring keeps sliding up my finger so I now that I have lost a bit of weight, but I don't weigh myself(I don't even own a scale).
We usually refer to this as the Infidelity Diet, and most of us didn't do it the "right" way (i.e....just not eating because we were always on the verge of barfing due to the emotional turmoil).
Sounds like you have done it the "right" way which is AWESOME! It will be much easier for you to keep it off this way!
I was thinking that it may be too much, as well. I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. I don't know if I will have the CD yet, my sister's BF can't find it yet. He will keep looking for it, but it may just be the DVD. I opened up the DVD wrap and I sprayed a little bit of my perfume on the inside paper. I have no expectations for this AT ALL. I am preparing myself emotionally. Thank you for your support.
Just keep in mind that any response he may have, or lack of response, mean no more or less than any other response.
In other words, whether he was to rend it in his teeth and leave the pieces in the driveway (plus a couple teeth), pretend he didn't see it and walk away without a backward glance, or lovingly clasp it to his bosom and shower it with kisses, or ANYTHING in between, it doesn't matter.
The effect will be the same no matter what he does.
Thanx Neak. The one response I think would be the worst is this.
I would hand him the DVD and mail. I would say my "line". Then he would look at me and say, "BS, POSOW is pregnant." I am figuring out my face for that one. I won't want to react to that at all. I would just turn and walk away.
Any other reaction is PEANUTS compared to this one, right? This is how I "psych" myself up sometimes when I am doing something possibly difficult.
Your image of his tearing up the DVD in the driveway with some left over teeth lying on the ground was GREAT. I could actually see that one.
I did. Don't worry, I just do that to psych myself up so that if that does happen, it won't show on my face how devastated I really am.
Tonight, the boys and I will be watching the movie together. DS7 said, "Maybe if Daddy sees that movie he will remember to come home." I replied, "Hunny, Daddy may never come home, but he still loves you." It breaks my heart.
So this weekend the kids get out of school at 1155am and they have a looooooong weekend(it is Family Day and it will be the first one we have without WH). Although, last year, WH and I had a stupid fight that caused me to walk home from POOL and then while he was going to p/u the kids he called POSOW(I didn't find out until March). So Family Day, last year, wasn't the best memory I have ever had.
I had a trigger last night from the weirdest place. I was watching "Survivor" and about 15 mins in, a girl dislocated her shoulder. I saw the agony on her face and I imagined what my WH looked like when he dislocated his shoulder a few weeks ago. I started to cry and I changed the channel. After a few mins, I was able to turn "Survivor" back on. It was the first time in a week since I had cried. I got over it pretty quickly though and moved on.
I still have dreams and thoughts of better times when my wife was a major support for me and the family. Eventually either way you will get to a place where you remember the good things before the alien took over. The painful things will be in the past.
I just finished watching the movie, "Pool Hall Junkies." with the boys. DS9 was getting so excited by all of the Pool talk and he was getting pumped up for the time when one day we will own a Pool Table. It is something I have always wanted and I put it on my vision board, so I will get one. It really is an awesome movie, and if WH does bring it back or not accept it, it will make a great addition to my DVD collection.
Be sure you take an honest look at yourself right before you carry out this olive branch. If you have no expectations this will turn him back into your husband again, greenlight yourself. If you find, for any reason, you should wait .... it's best you don't go forward at this time.
I definitely don't think that anything that I do will ever change him back in to my H. What he is is the choices HE makes and HE has to change those choices to change who he is, or not. He may stay this way forever and although I will mourn him for my children, myself and my M, I will never regret one moment I spent in my M and definitely not one moment I spent implementing MB concepts.
I will admit that I am a little nervous about the event itself. I don't have expectations of the way he will react or not react, I am just nervous about how it will affect me after. I am bracing myself but I remember how I felt when he first left and I don't want to go back to feeling completely like that again. I hope I have my love vaulted up tight enough for that.
I know that the "little" peck from behind my dark Plan B curtain will affect me in a way much worse than WH. I will be the one who will pay the price of my emotional turmoil for days after. I will do it, but I will need to talk about it afterwards to be sure. I will be going to work right after and I know I will be some what of a wreck.
I am focused on the next few hours with Plan A-ing my kids. Then I will focus on work tomorrow, and then family day plans for Monday. All the time, I will be psyching myself up for the emotional toll I will put myself through next Saturday, and not allowing it to affect my kids.
I have found visualization to be a helpful tool to prepare me for situations I am anxious about. I visualize every outcome, good and bad in advance (as best I can). Do not dwell on any outcome, the key is to think about every scenario, good and bad.
When I do this, the real situation is much easier to deal with, and I find myself more confident and considered in my response.
I have been thinking about it all night(I even woke up a couple of times in the wee hours) and this is what I have come up with.
The "olive branch" isn't for me. It isn't for WH either. It is simply what it is. I am just doing this to show WH that the door is still open, for now. What reactions or non-reactions come out of this olive branch doesn't matter as long as the message is sent.
It will be hard on me emotionally, but no harder than Plan A and definitely no harder than Plan B so far. My PLAN so far is to do it. That may change, but for now it is a GO.
I am waiting for my kiddies to come home so I can get a HUGE hug. I need one today. I had customers wishing me a Happy V-Day today. Why would people say that to total strangers? It's not like saying, "Merry Christmas." and even that people are leery about because of the political correctness.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be though. I got to see a young friend of mine who just lost her father to brain cancer a couple of weeks ago and she just came back to work today.
Tomorrow will come and that brings me JOY. Every morning is a potential new beginning. Every night when I go to sleep is the end of a day, whether good or bad.
scot i saw that that story was soo touching... loved watching him and his brother down at the end of the hill. That was AWESOME. congrats to the canadians!!!
Don't let the VD stuff get to you. No matter what, you'll be able to reclaim it as something good in a while. In the meantime, and maybe even after, make it symbolize a special, fun time with your boys, and focus on that. Plan something (cheap) outrageous and fun.
I am having a sad day today and it is worse than yesterday.
I told the kids I would take them out for a walk. That was plainly because I didn't want to do anything but sit at home and be alone. I knew that if I told the kids that I was going to take them out, they would MAKE me GO OUT. We are leaving in 20 minutes. Nothing too special, just going for a walk in the neighbourhood and stopping at 7-11. We might even stop in to see my BIL and their cousin.
Then we will be home to eat dinner. I made Shepherd's Pie today which will also be for tomorrow.
Tonight we are also going to play Mousetrap for family games night.
I feel a bit better, but I still just don't want to do anything but lay and bed and read or watch the olympics. I am forcing myself to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING.
I will be okay, it is just a hard day. A couple more sad days this month and then nothing until April(WH's Bday)
We are back from our walk and visiting with BIL and his GF. On the way home, I started throwing snowballs and running around with them. DS9 was so happy. DS7 was happy and then unimpressed. He is funny like that.
I know why else I was a little upset this morning and early afternoon. I was thinking about WH. He wrote DSx2 an email. He put that he wouldn't be able to get on the computer today to play an online game with them because it is hard to get on the computer with 3 people in the house. HAHAHAHA Funny, he NEVER had any problem getting on when he lived here because he just took over the computer as soon as he walked in the door. He played whenever he was home.
He also told the kids in their email that he is ready to build them their computer. They got excited by that and I had to explain to them that they weren't getting an extra one, WH was going to take this one and give us one that wasn't as good. They said that wasn't fair because they would have 2 good computers at POSOW's house and we would have a not as good one.
I also told myself that if WH tries to get the computer this weekend, then I would not be doing the olive branch in person. I would just leave the bag with all of the mail and "olive branch"(movie) on the porch on DS7's car seat. I have reiterated with the boys that they do not let Daddy in the house. DS7 said that if WH tries to give them the new computer he will say something like, "Daddy you can bring us the new computer when you come back to live with us again." I love my kids.
LC- Don't worry I am not letting him have anything. He wrote to IM's that he wanted the tower to our computer because I refused to pay the credit card. I only said that any charges after Dec1st I was no longer responsible for since he changed his passwords and I could no longer use the credit card. Also, our finances are the exact same for the moment. I have decided that if he wants the computer, he can take me to court to get it and I will tell the judge that I will pay for it myself. I am not getting something he deems is a good replacement.
That is why I made sure that the kids know not to let him in.
You're doing all the right things to get through this.
A M E N
Thank you for this. I don't always feel like it but I know that I am heading in the right direction. That makes me feel good.
I will be happier as I get through these tough days ahead and I learn what triggers me and either become desensitized or avoid them. I still have FAITH and HOPE. Although the funny thing is that now I have more FAITH in it turning out for the better. I don't mean R of my M(although that would be like icing on the cake), I mean I KNOW that I WILL BE OKAY.
I WILL BE HAPPY AGAIN. I WILL HAVE WONDERFULLY GROWN CHILDREN ONE DAY. I WILL BE OKAY.(It's gonna be a LONG journey, but one worth traveling I am sure)
I WILL BE HAPPY AGAIN. I WILL HAVE WONDERFULLY GROWN CHILDREN ONE DAY. I WILL BE OKAY.(It's gonna be a LONG journey, but one worth traveling I am sure)
AIN'T LIFE GRAND?
ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
Oh, and congradulations on that GOLD metal. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the story behind it.....
OMG My kids are absolutely amazing little men. DS9 was talking to WH and he asked about the computer. He said, "But Daddy, when you left you took all of your stuff and left the computer so now it is ours." DS9 told me that WH responded with the fact that he would talk to me about it. HMMMMMM talk to me about it? How when we don't talk?
So I have rehearsed the exit and entrance of the house on the weekend visits with DSx2 again. I am really thinking that this olive branch may have to be done not in person. I think maybe my back up plan of putting the mail and movie in a bag and leave it on the car seat.
This weekend, if he wants to try to exchange the computer(which is NOT happening)then it is probably better that we are not face to face. I can't trust myself that much. I am going to write the "line" and put it in the movie. The perfume is already sprayed on the leaflet. That should be enough to get the message across this time. I will plan for another olive branch in a couple of months.
You know what, just stating that I will not be doing it in person has made me not feel as anxious. That's it my mind is following my body. I will not do this in person. I think if I am absolutely and totally honest, a little part of me wanted to see him face to face and wanted him to see me. I have lost a noticeable amount of weight and I wanted him to see me looking better. That is not the best reason for this. I will do it in the right way Plan B style. Thoughts?
Ok...you will probably get mixed opinions on this.
I DO think it would be good for him to see you if you have lost quite a lot of weight...an Attractive Spouse is a need for many men, even if they do not readily admit it (my H still never "admits" it but I know it is for him...he comments on it all the time, which is a clear sign!).
How.ev.er. Don't let him see you face-to-face if it is going to set YOU back. You said you were feeling less anxious just thinking you will not have to see him...that is a sign that you may not be ready and that is fine. You have time later on to let him have a sneak-peek of you if you choose.
That's what I was thinking. Maybe not this time but some time in the future. I also don't know that POSOW won't be in the car. She wasn't in there this Sunday, but who knows? Also, with the computer sitch, I wouldn't trust myself not to react. I think I could be cool and calm, but seeing him under this circumstance may do more to me than I know. I want to be in control of all of my emotions.
I was also thinking that I will lose more weight by the next time. We will see what happens. I may find my strength again by then. I had a couple of really down days and I want to get over them properly first. Who knows what I will do that morning? I have a few days to figure it out fully. I can do this, I know I can. I am scared about my reactions and I am scared that WH will try to come in the house and get the computer. Precautions will be taken for that not to happen
The boys will wait until WH calls them to tell them he is here. They will go on the porch. I will follow them. They will open the door when he gets there. I will hand him the "package" say my words and walk back in to the house and lock the door.
If he talks to or emails the IMs about wanting to exchange the computer, than I will probably not do the olive branch in person. The plan for that is that I would let the kids on the porch and then I would lock the door and then they would unlock the other door. I will leave the "package" on DS7's car seat. He can do with it what he will.
The only thing I don't like about the not in person plan is that I will not know that he received the message. If I say the "line" then I will know that message was received. I will talk to you guys some more and my friends and see what I decide. I am going to watch Lost now. I will check in tomorrow.
...You know what, just stating that I will not be doing it in person has made me not feel as anxious. That's it my mind is following my body. ...
Hats off to being a stellar responder and knowing yourself Scotty. seems to be a strong suit in you. If WH ever gets out of the fog he has a strong home to come to in you. Keep up the good work.
Perhaps you can dress up really nicely, makeup, heels, get the boys bundled up, and wait in the car. Have the house door locked. So when he picks up the boys you let the boys out of the car and can hand him the package through the car window, or hand it to the boys to give to him...then TAKE OFF! You will not be tempted to continue anything, you will not wait around, not be there for the question about the package or the computer.
OK, so you drive around, maybe stop for coffee. You've made it look like you have places to go, like you are living life without him...he is getting left behind...and you are not there to hear a phone ring or a door knock...
He gets in his car and thinks...hmmm, I wonder where Scotty was going? You don't think she had a date do you? As he's pondering this the OW is starting conversation but he is short with her...
If You were concerned about him taking the computer, you could always hide it in the kitchen cabinets or at the neighbor's house.
If you didn't want to do that and were either going to give it to him or that he might take it, You might want to consider erasing any information especially your browsing history, etc and if you have any saved passwords to your email accounts, etc. You can google around how to clear all that information in firefox, internet explorer and whatever email you have. There are some good freeware programs as well: www.ccleaner.com/ is one
Then if he indeed does give you a computer, I would be suspect that it has some type of keylogger or other software on it that he can use to see what you are doing and perhaps get passwords, etc.
Ok, so the picture of Scotty glowing out of the house looking and smelling awesome, handing the package to WS, then striding majestically down the street......lacks something. Though you can't say it doesn't have a certain panache, lol!
Exactly, that's why it was going to be a say my line, give him the package and go back in to the house. I think he is going to be a little surprised that I am even talking to him so he won't realize I have walked back in to the house.
In case he does manage to get his way in to the house this weekend, the computer tower will be MIA. It will be visiting a friend's house. I don't like the idea of it being in the house at all, because I think he will go to any extent to find it.
I was thinking that my PLAN should be back ON. OKAY I am NOT crazy. I am going a little back and forth with this a bit. I am anxious because I am nervous. It is a good nervous though. It's like the nerves before you do a play. That's kind of what I am thinking about it like.
Why I think that my plan should be back on is because I was thinking about the fact that I have been telling people on here to go through with their Plan no matter what their WS was doing. That they should work their plan to the best and not just as a reaction to what their WS may or may not do. I decided to take my own advice because I am one smart cookie.
Ok, so the picture of Scotty glowing out of the house looking and smelling awesome, handing the package to WS, then striding majestically down the street......lacks something.
Been following along......like a romance/drama/thriller novel with all of you writing the lines in the scenes........
Is it possible that Scotty could have someone there waiting to pick her up? Maybe even waiting in the car on her, instead of in the house with her. That way, she can be all dressed up and have somewhere to go. It would also give her the option of saying or not saying something to him if she doesn't want to talk to him at the last minute.
I thought of that, but leaving with someone else, even if it's a girl, will still leave too many questions in his mind that might detract from the message he's getting. There will probably be a time for that down the road a little, but not quite yet, I think.
I see your point Neak, but I don't think he'd be distracted with those thoughts too long. I believe he'd go right back to hearing in his head what she said to him before she left. Or, she doesn't say anything and hands him the package and leaves.
Actually, I'm not keen on the idea of her just going back in the house. I want him to vision her "living her life" and not just staying at home waiting on him. And I don't mean moving on with another man in the car. The message she givess him will let him know that he still has a chance. But by her having places to go, he might get the idea that she won't be waiting on him forever.
I thought of that, but leaving with someone else, even if it's a girl, will still leave too many questions in his mind that might detract from the message he's getting. There will probably be a time for that down the road a little, but not quite yet, I think.
If she belongs to a church she could be going to bible study and he could know it thru the kids. Also maybe a free class somewhere. It doesn't have to be some kind of date or going out for drinks. It could just be going out of the house so he knows his angel is not waiting to have a life even though she is waiting for him. Well for now anyways
I think he is going to be a little surprised that I am even talking to him so he won't realize I have walked back in to the house.
I agree. Even if he intends to try to confront you about the computer, you will catch him so much by surprise that you can do your thing and get out of there before he realizes what's happened.
Let him be stunned by your behavior and your appearance at the same time. Double whammy.
Well, so you guys can all stop arguing over it, he knows where I am going when he comes and gets the kids, I GO TO WORK. I work retail and I work every Sunday and every other Saturday. That's why he comes and gets the kids those days. He has other days he could come and have the kids for a visit but he doesn't. I am reliable, I don't look at it as a bad thing, it just is. I don't think that he thinks I am just sitting around waiting for hijm, but he knows I am not out dating. The only time I am away from my kids is when they are at school, or I am at work. That's why I have the idea that some other time, I will have someone else here at 630 when he drops them off. Then he will start to think. For right now, I still want to be the person I am and send the message I intend on sending.
Funny little WH mind. He didn't change his address on anything. He changed to paperless statements for his credit card and then he changed hi password for online access. But today, what came in the mail? His new credit card. HAHAHAHAHA. I joked with the boys that we could go on a shopping spree. HAHAHAHAHA DS9 wanted to go for it. It was a funny thought. One that went away quickly. Just shows that he is still not changing his address on anything. That is silly silly wayward stuff.
Well, I am really trying to gather the strength to do this face to face. I will do it. I am just nervous about it.
The computer won't be here until Sunday after 9pm so the kids won't have to lie about where the computer is/was. I will have to make it without you guys, and you will have to make it without me. I know it will be hard but YOU will be okay(HAHAHAHA sorry I am silly sometimes, but that is why I am so loved IRL).
Ok shes gone. We can start talking about her now...
I am not gone yet silly. I am going to be offline as of tonight and until Sunday night after the kids are in bed. 48 hours without a computer. I think I will have the shakes HAHAHAHAHA.
I am nervous but I have my plan set out. I am confident that I will be able to deliver my message and moving the computer out of my house is just a precaution. It is just a way to keep my mind focused on my mission of messenger.
I was praying a couple of nights ago for more soldiers in my war. I am tired and I need some help and I don't want to rely on my kids. They are too young to be my soldiers. I am not going to directly tell anyone to do anything, but I would like someone to step up for me and my family. I don't think it is a bad thing to pray for at all.
Start asking God to put people (or angels) in your WH's path. I believe that's what happened in my situation. People would approach my WH in the STRANGEST places and speak the Word to him. There are several times in the Bible that God uses angels to speak to men on His behalf. Think a visit from an angel in the middle of the night would get your WH's attention? Anything is possible.
An American couple from Montana decided to go to Canada for their holidays one summer. They drove north across the border, stopped at a dinosaur park, then continued northeast. After driving for a couple of days, they realized they were lost. They found a small city, and pulled over to ask a pedestrian for directions.
"Hey buddy, can you tell us where we are?"
The pedestrian smiled, said "Saskatoon, Saskatchewan," and went on his way.
The driver turned to his wife and said "Well, we still don't know where we are. He doesn't even speak English."
I was so nervous yesterday morning. I was ready to go to work way before I needed to be. When WH pulled up, I double checked to see that POSOW wasn't in the truck. She wasn't. DSx2 knew that I was giving WH his mail. They were waiting for me to go with them. I let them go first because WH always comes out when he sees them(he doesn't like the cold).
He saw the kids and came out. I walked out to the back of the truck and he came around and then he saw me. He looked down. Then looked up in to my eyes and then he looked down again. Honestly, it is a blur. I don't think he looked back up. I said my line(thanx Neak) and then I handed him the package. He looked at it and then I walked away.
I noticed that they took a while to leave. I went to work. Then at 630 the kids came home. They left their snowpants on the porch, so I went out to get them(we have an enclosed porch). I noticed WH hadn't left yet. I peeked to see what he was doing, it was 5 minutes after the kids had come in. I saw him open his cell. I figured he was calling POSOW and telling her he was on his way. Then my house phone started ringing. I asked DS9 what WH wanted. He said, "He just wanted to make sure you were home." This is the only time he has ever done that.
Then I couldn't resist. I asked DS9 if WH looked at the package. He said, "Yea, he looked through it for like 10 minutes" Then I said, "The movie was in there." DS9 said, "Oh that's why daddy had it. He took it in to the living room and put it with the rest of his movies."
The boys came home today, and the movie is still not here. Message delivered and received. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.
This after affect is really something. I WANT to contact him again. I WILL NOT. I didn't work this hard or this long to ruin it all. It is a weird feeling. I really wanted to text him or email him. I even wanted to hear his voice. It is silly to me. HEHEHEHE
I think I can I think I can(I mean I think I CAN NOT contact him again).
And darling girl, WH wants more contact with you ... X 1000
Let him pursue you. It's a guy thing.
You just planted some seeds .... wait for it. Now he will be keeping this event a secret from POS-cow-OW. BUT, the boys KNOW where this video came from ... and your boys are your secret weapon.
(deliberately poor grammar)You don't gotta do nuttin' ...
It's funny that you mentioned the boys know where it came from because DS9 said that when he saw WH with the movie he said, "Hey you have the same movie that we have." I had to laugh at that one.
It went beautifully, dahlin!!!!!.....I was praying awfully hard for you yesterday......
Soooooooo, what Plan A thing you gonna do for those amazing boys tomorrow? With all the wonderfully hard work they've been putting in, they deserve a little something special....and so does mom!!!!
Monday nights are family games night. So as all Mondays, I am going to play some games with them. It is funny though because they really missed the computer. They will get a chance to play on the computer afterschool.
DS7 says such marvelous things. I really wanted to share this with WH but I will share this with all of you instead. Yesterday, after WH dropped them off DS7 said, "Mommy I am lucky to be a kid." I asked "Why?" He said, "Because I get to see my Mama every day." I said, "I am lucky to see you everyday too buddy."
This one goes on my "list". There are always those moments that someone says, "I wish I had a camera." Instead of saying that, what I say is, "This is getting added to one of the memories that I have in my last moments of life." Soon there will be so many moments that I will have to start having them at 40, so I can die peacefully at 140. HEHEHEHEHEHE
I don't have any expectations about it at all. I know this was nothing more than it was, to show WH that there is still a small crack open that he can walk through if he chooses.
I just want to be honest about what is going on so others who may be lurking and feeling the same things will know that they are not alone. That's what helped me when I read other people's threads. Especially Mimi's thread. I don't remember who bumped that thread for me a long time ago, but thanx.
The dreams came back in full force yesterday and today. I wake up liking the dream, but they are always about WH coming home and when I wake up and realize that it was just a dream, I get a little sad. I do find myself getting distracted more often and not thinking about him every second.
This time around, the withdrawal isn't as bad. I am over wanting to contact him again.
So, a Plan A thing I will do for my boys tonight is that I will make stuffed shells for dinner tonight. My kids love the ricotta cheese part of lasagna so I thought I would try it.
The kids LOVED the stuffed shells. They ate them right up and their is enough leftovers for tomorrow night too.
We played a couple of rounds of Hide n seek in the dark and I had a BLAST. The kids are so funny. It's not a big house, but in the dark it is so much FUN. The first time I hid, DS9 was IT. I went in to the bathroom and opened the shower door and closed it hard. Then I hid on the other side of the bathroom. He said to DS7, "I know where she is." and when he came in to the bathroom I grabbed him and screamed. He laffed.
Then DS7 was IT. I opened the basement door and closed it and then hid in the laundry room by the back door. They looked all over the house for me until they found me.
After that scare fest DS9 was too scared. But DS7 said he wants to play again tomorrow. It was GREAT.
We used to play a game like this. Our dog at the time, Buffy, would always lead "it" to the hiding places. Wagging her lab tail at a hundred miles an hour. Happiest dog in the world, doubly happy to help "it" find the hidden family members.
We used to have special times when the whole fam would "camp out" for the night in the LR and put on a movie till we went to sleep. Cheap and the kids felt priveldged but could only do it on weekends.
I will think about doing that some time during march break.
So today, I have been feeling a bit low again. I think the "high" of my close encounter of the wayward kind has taken it's toll. It of course isn't as bad as the withdrawal form when he first left but it is still hard. I even caught myself checking the boys' email account to see if he contacted them. It was more for me than for them and I decided that was a bad thing to do.
Refocusing. So a friend of mine said to me today, "I thought you wanted to write." I said, "Yea but I SUCK." She said, "A lot of writers suck at first, you have to write to get better."
I went to the library with my other friend and looked for some more interesting books to read. I am currently finishing the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon. It is a good series. Is there any suggestions for some really good books?
I think I am a little down today because I haven't been sleeping very well either. Or maybe I haven't been sleeping well because of my feelings. Well I don't know but I am definitely going to bed early tonight.
WOOOOHOOOO Page 126, that is one of my favourite numbers.
I will think about doing that some time during march break.
So today, I have been feeling a bit low again. I think the "high" of my close encounter of the wayward kind has taken it's toll. It of course isn't as bad as the withdrawal form when he first left but it is still hard. I even caught myself checking the boys' email account to see if he contacted them. It was more for me than for them and I decided that was a bad thing to do.
Refocusing. So a friend of mine said to me today, "I thought you wanted to write." I said, "Yea but I SUCK." She said, "A lot of writers suck at first, you have to write to get better."
I went to the library with my other friend and looked for some more interesting books to read. I am currently finishing the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon. It is a good series. Is there any suggestions for some really good books?
I think I am a little down today because I haven't been sleeping very well either. Or maybe I haven't been sleeping well because of my feelings. Well I don't know but I am definitely going to bed early tonight.
WOOOOHOOOO Page 126, that is one of my favourite numbers.
Read stuff by Anita Shreve. HEr writing is so lyrical it makes me want to sing. My favorite is 'Fortunes Rocks.'
what kind of books do you prefer?......if you want something totally relaxing, light-hearted, and just plain fun (you know, the kind to get your mind out of the drama that surrounds you but not so deep you have to concentrate TOO much....), then I recommend the "Confessions of a Shopaholic" series.
It may not be the deepest piece of literature out there, but it was a fun read....
if you want something a bit deeper and meaning-filled, I recommend "Divine" by Karen Kingsbury.......
Hey Scotty - writing has really helped me out in the last few months. Oddly enough (since I am a computer guy), I had to write with a pen in order to deal with certain things. It feels good, and I encourage you to do it!
I had to surrender caring about judgement in order to really express myself, and I would suggest that you do the same.
Don't worry about me, the sadness has since passed. I think it was just to be expected though. I read Mimi's thread from start to finish and I know that every time she slipped in her Plan B, she felt horrible after.
I really don't know what kind of books I am in to yet. I didn't much like reading books when I was younger. I liked Shakespeare, Charles Dickens and Stephen King(really weird combo, right?). I read the Twilight series last year(all my friends thought it was awesome). I loved it. Even better is that it got me in to reading. Since then I have been reading whatever I could. I even got a library card and I always have a book out.
3 things I am thankful for. Well I will of course say my kids. My Friends are a true blessing. I also have a house(it is a HOME).
3 things about me that are wonderful. I am HE-LAIRY-US. I am kind. I am STRONG. I am LOYAL. I AM WONDERFUL. Geez am I full of myself or what? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Don't worry about me, the sadness has since passed. I think it was just to be expected though. I read Mimi's thread from start to finish and I know that every time she slipped in her Plan B, she felt horrible after.
((((Scotty)))),
OF COURSE YOU are WONDERFUL.....
Ahhhhh Miss Mimi!!!!.....Yep she felt awful after each Plan B slip (did ya happen to notice how often it happened???.....). BUT she came away from it strong each time. She would have LOVED you. I'm glad you read her story....... A sucessful one for sure..... ....She was an amazing source of strength and encouragement for me (and a good ol' now and again!!!)
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that is you do pick up any of Jodi Picult's book, stay away from "Mercy". The whole story revolves around an adultery line. She did very good in writing it BUT it would be awfully triggering.
You sound much better today....give those boys a big ol' MB hug for me....
I woke up this morning extremely tired. I didn't want to go to work. I forced myself to do it. I put on make-up(I don't usually wear it but people keep telling me it makes my eyes "POP"). I dragged my butt in to work. I had to work on cash since I picked up the shift. I knew something "bad" would happen. To my relief it wasn't that horrible. A story I got to tell my friends.
Then after that incident was gone and I handled it with grace, I found myself singing and joking with people. In the back of my mind, I am waiting for the other shoe to fall, but I know I will handle it with grace.
I joke with customers too and there was a customer who was talking about God not answering her prayers. She said she thought of Heaven like a huge corporation and God as the CEO. She said that she thinks that HE just didn't get any of her messages yet. I imitated an answering machine and she laffed. I told her that God only answers the prayers that HE needs to and that although we may think we need the prayer answered it may just be that we need to learn a lesson. She then said that she watched Oprah once, and Oprah said, "It has come to a point that when I pray at night, I ask God to please not teach me any lessons tomorrow." I answered her with a good ol' saying from my Dad. He always told me that we learned something new every day and that the day we stopped learning was the day we died.
I am definitely going to sleep early again tonight. After the Canadian men's hockey team plays of course.
things about me that are wonderful. I am HE-LAIRY-US. I am kind. I am STRONG. I am LOYAL. I AM WONDERFUL. Geez am I full of myself or what? HAHAHAHAHAHA
Geez I totally looked right over that one. How did i miss it? HAHAHAHAHAHA
I am not in to myself am I?
Okay all joking aside. I know there is a lot of good about me, but there is a lot of bad too. I know my faults and accept them. I also know my strengths too. And I LOVE em.
Today another friend told me I should write. Well, I guess I got my prayers answered. Since I didn't listen to my friend yesterday the universe decided to give me another nudge.
Neak, I would love to read your books. Lemme know where I can get my grubby little hands on some.
Check out Anne Lamott's non-fiction books for some ideas about writing. My favorite is "Traveling Mercies". She also has a book on how to write called "Bird by Bird" which is very fun.
If it hasn't been suggested yet, "The Time Travellers Wife" by Audrey Niffenegger. The movie didn't get glowing reports, and I haven't seen it yet, I did however love the book.
Hey scotty, remember that was one of the most painful things about intimate betrayal. They knew you wern't perfect and were supposed to love you anyway. Of course before everyone gets thier panties in a bunch!! I do not mean marraige at all costs.. lol.
Pardon me while I picture Mark Harmon with a slightly enlarged chest...
Neak got pregnant on her wedding night--thankfully after the reception was over. When she showed me the positive pregnancy test strip, and was still busy trying to talk us both out of believing it, she asked (just as she removed her shirt) whether she should take one more. I took one look at her usually petite and dainty "frame", and said, "No, Gibbs, I don't think that will be necessary!"
I had some horrible dreams last night/this morning. The first one was WH telling me that POSOW was sexy and cute and all that. Then I asked what he thought about me and he said I was ugly and he never liked the way I looked. I woke up sad. I know it is not true, but it still sucked.
The second dream was what I like to call a "movie" dream where I am just watching what is going on. Well it was POSOW and a friend of her's. They were talking about her life. Her friend then said something about her family life. POSOW said she was "working on it" and this was in Sep/07(I saw a date in my dream) and it was supposed to be about trying to get my WH. Stupid dreams.
Well, on another note, the library called me to tell me that a book I reserved was in. It was LOVE BUSTERS. So I will start to read it tonight. WOOOOHOOOOO.
Ok, before I totally I have to give Scotty a big . It will get better.
And now...
Slightly enlarged, indeed. A while ago, the Dervish saw a commercial for NCIS and nearly leaped with excitement. "HE HAS OUR LAST NAME!!!" Of course he thought we must have gotten our last name from Leroy Jethro, and I had to crush his tender hopes.
>there was a customer who was talking about God not answering her prayers
Sometimes no is an answer. Just because she doesn't get what she wants doesn't mean she wasn't answered.
He knows WAY better than the rest of us.
There were two little girls talking before christmas. Both girls wanted the new popular doll, lets call it "Chatty patty"
1st girl asked second, "What will you do to get it?" 2nd said "I will pray and ask God for it, He allways answers my prayers" 1st one said, "Bah, God, I will get my Mom to get it for me watch.."
So 1st girl asked and bugged and tortured Mom into getting the doll, they couldn't afford it but she got it anyway. There was a lot of fit throwing involved
After Xmas the two girls met up and talked. When they talked about how there xmas was they both were happy and excited. 1st girl.."I got everything I wanted, Mom had to work an extra shift so she was tired and Daddy already works two jobs because we just bought a big house but we saw each other that morning and got a bunch of stuff. We are so happy! You look happy too what was your Xmas like?"
2nd girl smiled and said..."We spent the evening together before and talked about all the gifts we were blessed with. We all went down to the homeless shelter and handed out blankets and someone even gave presents to the children. When we got home Daddy read the night before Xmas and sang carols and went to bed. We got up together and opened presents after having breakfast then went to church. It was so much fun!"
1st girl said.."Did you get the chatty patty doll? " 2nd.. "nope" 1st.. "Hah I thought you said God answers all your prayers? He didn't answer that one huh?" 2nd.. "Yes he did, he just said no"
I also think of the Garth Brook song, "Unanswered prayers", (I think thats the name..)
NP Pep. I remember all too well the feelings and how you can't always listen to what others are telling you because you are just so confused.
So, last night, DS9 was at a sleep over. WH called twice and then left an email message for the boys. DS7 didn't want to talk to WH or email him back, so I just lef tit at that. DS7 and I had a sleep over at my house(hehehehehe).
Then after DS9 was dropped off this morning, we went outside to build snowmen. DS9 built 4 snowmen. He said it was a snow family. We put old pairs of shorts on the heads. It looked cute. Then we went for a walk in all of the snow.
Still have a bit of the sad feelings from operation olive branch. I need to refocus.
Mymissy- it helps me to help others. It makes me feel great to be able to help out in any little way, even if it is just support.
I have faith in Dr h's methods and I love to pass on the info to whomever I can. I am reading Love Busters right now. Boy, I wish I had that book 15 years ago. Looking forward to reading Fall In Love, Stay in Love. I don't want all of my good learning to go to waste.
I'm the other poster that Nesre "PLANNED" with.... He ask me to go off board to ask my advise about MM's thread....
He saw what looked like a compromise of her thread by her WH.....
He wanted my imput on how to handle it ...he could not communicate that information directly .... the WH would have seen that ....
The Idea was for her to change her username to hide herself from the WH if she thought it was necessary.......
I feel bad because I didn't see it as a problem either.... Nesre's motivation was pure...Just to convey what he had observed .....and suggest the change.....
If you, several days later and knowing fully what is going on, are still thinking about your WH after Operation Olive Branch, then how much more is he going nuts, sitting there in the dark?
Ok, enough about him. How's your weather? It's been so nice here, and almost every day getting close enough to freezing to melt the roads. In spots, anyway. Pretty soon I'm going to have to get my little plants going.
Well, we got A LOT of snow yesterday. I went out to shovel and a neighbour had already snow blowed so that was awesome. My TV has not been off of the Olympics t all(I mean it. Even when I was not home it was on).
I wouldn't be a true Patriot if I didn't mention it on my thread. Canada won 14 gold medals. That kicks butt since before these games we had never won ONE on Canadian soil. We, like always won medals where they thought we wouldn't and didn't win the medals where they thought we could.
I got all in to it. I love my job because they let me wear temp tatoos on my face for Canada. I was also getting play by plays over the phone and telling the other employees.
SC-i am sorry that I didn't respond to your post earlier, I don't use this thread anymore. I have actually tried to get the mods to combine the 2.
It's not that helping a member of the opposite sex ON BOARD is a problem. What the other posters were talking to Mymissy about was that she has to be careful what she does offline. You have been around for a while and I am sure that you know that one of the boundaries that anyone has to put in place is that they should never allow a member of the opposite sex have a chance to fill an EN. There is also a HUGE problem when you are a BS with a REVENGE AFFAIR. EP's have to be put in to place to AVOID that. That is all we were trying to do.
I often post to people of the opposite sex because frankly with the amount of BS's that come on here, I don't always realize who is male and female. As long as I keep the boundary of helping ON BOARD than I will be fine.
Noone said that you or Nesre could NOT talk to Mymissy. If you have something useful to tell a BS or WS, you should feel comfortable saying it.
Well, now my two threads are combined. Now I asked if they woud change the name of the thread back to Ummmm..... I like it. I can find it better and since I am QUITE aware that it was just my BS fog that allowed me to believe it was an EA. Wow what I would give to go back and tell myself some other things a few years ago. I will just be happy to know what I know now and learn more everyday.
THANK YOU MODS. Ahhhh I am back and now my WHOLE story is in one place where it belongs. AHHHHHHH feels good. Now off to watching the closing ceremonies of the olympics. I AM PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN TONIGHT. We pulled off some amazing moments and a SPECTACULAR winter games
NP the game was already over anyways. It ended while I was on my way home from work. My BIL called his gf's cell while she was driving home and I got an update on the WIN WIN WIN. It was excruciating not watching the game. I watched every other game and I had to work through this one.
I had 2 friends calling me and the manager had 2 people texting her and countless others too so we knew what the score was. I was nervous after the tie goal by the USA with 24.7 secs left. I don't like OT but I guess Canada's golden boy Sid the kid had our back again. Now he goes back to playing for The Penguins.
I have allways loved watching the olyimpics. Mostly because so many sports are fixed. Even though there are places that money finds its way into the olyimpics that can effect the outcomes at least nobody takes a dive. Lol
During olympic weeks I am allways in front of the TV if I can be. I hope to save some money to go to the next winter ones but thats a lot of dough..
Grats scotty for canadas wins in all but mostly for the womens and mens hockey gold
Well, I don't think I am Sorry. It is more about the fact that it was a welcome distraction and it felt good for Canada to do so great this time around.
It's funny. People keep talking about how these games have brought out our Canadian Pride. I don't think we are more patriotic, I just think we had more things to celebrate.
When I would play on the pool league with WH, other teams who we would beat would say, "You guys are always so serious. It's about having fun." I would say, "It's not very fun to lose." It wasn't that we didn't have fun playing, but be honest, when you lose, IT SUCKS.
It was fun to watch. Now back to your regular scheduled program, LIFE.
EXCUSE ME, eh. I AM TRULY SORRY, eh. I sorrily did not see that. I am sorry. Thank you for being so kind. Excuse me again. I apologize. I am so sorry. Sorry, eh?
It was funny though. I had to explain that part to my kids. Apparently they don't know what the world thinks about us yet. They will soon enough. HAHAHAHA.
I am sorry that I missed your "funny" though. Oops, I did it. Thanx. HAHAHAHAHA
I was referencing Catherine O'Hara's remarks during closing ceremonies.
I see my weak little joke flew right over your pretty head.
Highly amusing on all counts for both parties. As a Canadian myself, I go back and forth between misunderstood for trying to be funny, and being mis-understood for being too earnest. Thanks for the chuckle.
I have been around MB commenting on other people's threads.
I also have been helping my friend get through her withdrawal from her own M(her DH is away for military training for 6 months). They are the couple I loaned HNHN to.
Yesterday, the boys had their last skating trip. I walked to the arena(remember no car) and was going to stay there to watch both DS7 and DS9 skate. They are in different groups. DS7 skates first. He had a bit of a meltdown as they were leaving. I tried to convince him to go with the school by telling him I was leaving. When I went back to check that he had gone, he HADN'T. He was still at the arena and everyone else had left. I was upset. I took him back to the school and then had to walk back to the arena. Talked to the principal, and let's just say I am actually angrier now than I was yesterday. I think I will talk to him again tomorrow.
This incident has kept my mind off of WH and POSOW. I found myself not thinking about them very much at all.
I started a blog. It is boring but expressive. I am just getting a "feel" for it. Really into my book. I am reading An Echo In The Bone, by Diana Gabaldon.
Anyone have a good funny joke that is post appropriate(or a link to one that isn't). I need a good LAUGH.
LC- definitely got a good laugh. I even put one of the posts as my facebook stat. That was worth it. See, I asked for help and I got it. You guys are GREAT
Their conversation was constantly interrupted by people describing their ailments and asking the doctor for free medical advice.
After an hour of this, the exasperated doctor asked the lawyer, "What do you do to stop people from asking you for legal advice when you're out of the office?"
"I give it to them," replied the lawyer, "and then I send them a bill."
The doctor was shocked, but agreed to give it a try.
The next day, still feeling slightly guilty, the doctor prepared the bills.
When he went to place them in his mailbox, he found a bill from the lawyer.
MAN, what a frustrating day today. I received a phone call from DS7's school today. For the last 3 days, he has been sent to the principal's office. He is choosing not to listen to the teacher. Well, I know that it is partly due to his adjustment to what is happening at home. GEEZ WH and POSOW thought that it wouldn't affect the kids. Of course they still believe it, since I am DARK and they know NONE of this.
Today DS7 shot the bird to a grade 8 boy. That DID NOT go over well at all. I sat down with the resource teacher and the principal and we had a talk. I think that their approach to him just wasn't working. I asked them if we could be more CREATIVE. He is a "strong willed" child. The resource teacher said that she had a couple of run-ins with him earlier this year but she showed him that he couldn't get away with that, and she hasn't had a problem since. I felt better about the fact that they are going to try a new approach with him.
When I took him out of the school, he decided he wanted to go back in and listen to the teacher. It took us 45 minutes to get out of the school. It was very trying. He kept saying, "I want to be a good boy, I want to be smart. I want to learn." My responses to him were that he IS a good boy, he just sometimes does bad things. I also told him that he IS smart and that on Monday he can try again. We we will see what happens.
On the personal front, well I am still OKAY. OKAY is BETTER than NOT OKAY.
Here is something that is written on a bookmark that my friend gave me.
Don't Quit Don't quit when the tide is lowest, For it's just about to turn. Don't quit over doubts and questions, for there's something you may learn. Don't quit when the night is darkest, for it's just a while til dawn; Don't quit when you've run the farthest, for the race is almost run. Don't quit when the hill is steepest, for your goal is almost nigh; Don't quit, for you're not a failure UNTIL you fail to TRY. Jill Wolf
I received a phone call from DS7's school today. For the last 3 days, he has been sent to the principal's office.
I think this is important information. Request your IM's contact WH-DM (dorkusmaximus) and inform WH-DM that he needs to contact the school principal if he wants to be informed of the difficulties DS7 (precious boy) is experiencing at school.
WH-DM can then choose to ignore the message, or choose to get himself involved. (I hope he does the latter)
DS7 has now said he would like to go to some counseling. He wants to draw on the dry erase board(that's what DS9 did). I am going to make a phone call on Monday.
What message should I get IM's to send? What should it say? I know what I WANNA say, but that would be inappropriate.
Should it be, "WH, DS7 has had some difficulty in school. Please contact SCHOOL @ 905-555-5555 and speak to MR Principal about these difficulties."
The principal even said that he has had MINOR run-ins with DS7 in the past, but since they came back from Xmas break, he has become a regular in his office and he was at a loss about what to do. I hope Mr Principal lets WH know about this as well. The school is small and the principal knows me very well. Should I let him know that WH may call? The school and the teachers are WELL-AWARE of the current sitch at home.
WH, your wife has asked us to let you know that DS has been sent to the principal's office the last three days in a row. The principal said he has had minor run-ins with DS in the past, but since they came back from Xmas break, DS has become a regular in the principal's office. The principal is at a loss what to do, and would welcome a dialogue with the parents. Thanks, IM
HAHAHAHA, I even GOOGLED it to figure it out and the only things I could see was something about adjusting headlamps, which I thought was somewhat appropriate. HEHEHEHE.
Half of those views may be MEEEEEEEEEEE. HAHAHAHA.
IM's sent the message to WH about DS7's troubles at school. DS7 said that WH asked him a bunch of questions today about school and the principal.
DS9 told me a little funny thing. POSOW's D11 made a sign for her bedroom that says, "No boys allowed". He also said that it is boring over there because they have no toys to play with.
WH did let DSx2 go to the park with POSOW's D11 ALONE. I am not happy, but I was going to start letting them go to the park by themselves a bit this summer anyways. I guess I am going to be letting them grow up, which is scary.
OMG 930 and I think I am gonna go to sleep already. I had a hard time sleeping. Those pesky dreams keep coming. Not as often as before but they still suck.
It's funny that you guys are mentioning that they should be noisy toys. DSx2 have also said that they get in trouble a lot for being noisy because there are people that live downstairs so they are supposed to be quiet. HAHAHAHAHA my kids be QUIET, that's FUNNY. My boys are definitely BOYS and I allow them to be(to a point). Just a couple of weeks ago, they threw a ball in the kitchen and knocked a picture frame on the floor. They thought I was going to get MAD, but I just reminded them that we DON'T throw balls in the house for a reason.
They already have legos. They aren't loud but they definitely do HURT when you step on them.
Light sabers are probably good too. The one that makes noise. They will probably chase eachother around the apartment
I went to the Doc's to get my B12 shot and what song comes on the radio? My and WH's song(To be with you-Mr Big). I almost started crying in the office but I managed.
I AGREE ABOUT THE MOONSAND. That stuff is absolutely EVIL.
They have a new one that is called AQUASAND(although I think it is just moonsand with a different name). It can go in the water and it doesn't get wet. I change the channel when that commercial comes on.
Hi Scotland, I remember when we bought my nephew a young kids drum set. He LOVED it. My brother did not talk to me for a year!
Just say they have interest in music and you want to build their creativity side. <evil smile>
As for DSx2 going to park, that scares me. Need to keep the kids close especially when they are going through trauma like this. You don't know what kind of crazy stuff someone will feed them. I watched a show that talked about how these pedophiles watched their victims and most times they target the kids from broken homes because they are most suspectible.
hehehe. This situation is just so APPEALING for a little innocent pay-back.
So the evil-doers are in an apartment eh? Do your boys have a room? Or are they just squashed in there, in the living room when they are visiting?
I would send a message through the IM's that says: The boys have commented about being bored during their visits with you. I have let them select some of their toys that can be left with you to alleviate their discomfort when they are spending time with you."
Then proceed to send the Aquasand, light sabres, and every other messy, loud, annoying toy that you would prefer not to have at your house! Send the stuff that takes up a lot of room. Puzzles that have to stay spread out for days to complete. Lego projects that have to stay spread out with little pieces everywhere.
1. It will annoy OW. 2. OW will take that out on WH. 3. It will annoy OW's DD. 4. OW's dd will take that out on OW. 5. OW will take that out on WH. 6. Your motives are pure and innocent (hehehe, hard to argue with it....)
DSx2 don't have a room because they only spend 930-6 there every Sunday and every other Saturday. Apparently, WH has a room full of his crap(star wars toys he is going to sell, etc.) I like the idea of having some toys, etc that they can leave there and take up room. DS9 LOVES to do puzzles. DS9 also like chess, I think I will buy a cheap set to keep over there because those hurt when you step on them too.
POSOW would probably hate the stuff around, hehehehehe EVIL GRIN. DS7 told me that POSOW rearranges the apartment. WH told the boys that whenever he comes back from work, he doesn't know what the apartment will look like. DS7 then mentioned something about the furniture being the same here and it was a good thing I didn't do that. I said, "I don't rearrange the furniture because I like this place to feel like HOME." DS7 said he would tell WH that he should tell POSOW that. EVILER GRIN.
...to alleviate their discomfort when they are spending time with you
I just love this brilliant use of the English language. For some reason it just jumped out at me when I read it earlier today. It's so subtle but also so...obnoxious.
Anyway, Scot you're still a marvel to me. I know you don't always feel strong but you are tremendously strong.
Geez Opt, thanx. I NEVER feel strong about this at all. Especially if you had seen me walking to pick up DS7 and I was crying the whole way saying, "STUPID [censored], he gets to play around with his #@&%$ and I have to be the parent and deal with all of this on my own. POS. What an A$$." I only live a block from the school so it was a short rant, but I am sure that the neighbours saw me being "CRAZY TALKING TO HERSELF LADY AGAIN"(why is it whenever I type "self" I type slef and have to fix it?)
Part of my strength may come from the fact that I have been dealing with this for a couple of years really and I kind of "eased" into it. You see that first DDAY(Nov9/07) I truly believe they were "JUST FRIENDS" but they had loose boundaries. I spent the next 2 years being gaslighted. When I found MB, I had a PLAN and that is always how I ROLL(HAHAHAHA, I've been using that a lot lately cuz it makes the youngins at work laff).
All of the info on this site was like an "AHA" moment for me. The WORLD MADE SENSE. I understood everything that was going on. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, and I gained a lot here. I have my very weak moments. I don't like to stay in that dark place, it's SCARY.
I think the best thing about coming here was that I KNEW. I WAS RIGHT. I am an intuitive person and I had MANY MANY gut feelings, but I didn't listen. Sure, I could blame WH but he really isn't that good of a liar. I was that good of a believer. I want to believe the best about people. That isn't always the case though.
Let me tell you though, I CAN HOLD A GRUDGE.
Plan B is for me to save myself and the longer I am in it the better I feel. It is weird to me, but it works and that's why I push it on people. I know what it feels like to be in Plan A and it SUCKS. Plan B isn't a picnic but day to day, I feel better.
On another note, WH talked to DS7 about school and the trouble he was getting in to. DS7 told me that Daddy asked him what was happening. Today WH called and talked to DS9 and asked to speak to DS7. DS7 refused. WH passed a message through DS9 to ask DS7 if he remembered what they talked about yesterday and if he had been good. DS7 said yes.
BTW, Raymon Raving Rabbids for Wii killed me tonight, my shoulders are so SORE. The boys still kicked my butt too. That's not FAIR HAHAHAHAHA
All of the info on this site was like an "AHA" moment for me. The WORLD MADE SENSE. I understood everything that was going on. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, and I gained a lot here. I have my very weak moments. I don't like to stay in that dark place, it's SCARY.
I know what you mean here. This site and the books are like an instruction manual for relationships. (Well, duh, I guess that's why the call it marriage builders). What I'm saying is as soon as I started to read, I also had the "AHA" moment and "oh yeah, now I get it".
I so wish I could go into Plan B. It seems to be working pretty well for you and I'm glad.
Hi, I�m a lurker, but couldn�t resist offering a bit of useless information.
You type "slef" probably because your right hand types faster than your left. I had some typing software for my kids, and it timed each hand and each finger, then I saw that a lot of my typos are my right hand typing faster than my left - it�s a right-handed letter coming before a left-handed letter.
I follow your thread and find it very insightful. Both how you are dealing with your situation and all the support you get.
NotSure09-thanx for that. I never thought of it that way. It just annoyed the CRAP right outta me. I don't even actually "type. I never learned how. In school, I was offered typing(and we still used TYPEWRITERS.(((SHUDDER)))) or business. Guess which class I took? HEHEHEHEHE
Opt- thanx. I never really thought of it like that because that sense of humour is just who I AM. I hated that I couldn't joke around when I was feeling down. I had to get that back. I did. Not all of the way(yes I can be WORSE), but it is good for now.
I just love this brilliant use of the English language. For some reason it just jumped out at me when I read it earlier today. It's so subtle but also so...obnoxious.
I agree - there are so many delightful layers it's hard to know where to start.
I've been thinking and thinking of all the kid stuff I've hated over the years. If you have them, dollar stores are some of the best places to come up with annoying things, and you can get SO MANY of them!!!
If your kids are even a quarter as messy as mine are, card games are great. Teach them how to shuffle in fancy ways that explode all over while learning.
Guitar Hero might be too obvious, ditto accordions. Neaksis got one for the kids a few years back, yikes! Bubbles might be good, and those little crystal-growing kits. They always spill, and you have to set them in one place and leave them. Oh oh oh, I know - Battleship!!!!!!!! Those pegs really leave a mark.
We haven't even started in on the craft projects...
Try to have one or two new things each visit if you can, to add to all the other things you've already sent. Well, whatever your budget can afford. After all, your children's comfort and intellectual stimulation is a very high priority.
Check thrift stores, too - I found a game of marbles/Chinese Checkers for the Dervish's birthday, which lasted for almost 3 days before I started throwing the pieces away as I found them.
>before I started throwing the pieces away as I found them.
OMGosh! I am SO glad another mommy does this!!!!!!!!! I thought I was the only one.
A gf and I had a garage sale together. She had all these games and puzzles that had all the pieces still in them. I never got the guts up to ask her how her kids kept all their games together.
Come to think of it, I don't think I ever saw her kids dirty either.
They just never get to do any of the stuff. I AM NOT FOOLED!
No, you're not the only one. I tried for much too long to keep it all together. Finally, I realized that if they wanted to keep their stuff, they would let me know by taking care of it.
By not taking care of it, they were letting me know they were overwhelmed, and as an Awesome Mom it was my job to decipher their funny little codes and answer their cry for help.
Noooooo. You would NEVER throw your children's possessions away for your own gain. It is a vital part of reaching out to them in empathy and understanding.
Dealan- Your friend's children aren't mutants, they just aren't CHILDREN. Maybe your friend doesn't let them PLAY. I told DS7 that I would send some things with them on Sunday so they wouldn't be bored when visiting Daddy. DS7 said, "But OW'sDD11 would take them." I said, "Oh? I don't think she will." Of course inside I was thinking, "Would it be so bad if she did?"
My friend suggested FLOAM and Pixos too. I remembered Sticky mosaics. DS7 LOVES those. Although they don't hurt, DS7 seems to think the FLOOR is the garbage can.
When WH called last night, he thanked DS9 for being so good while he had them. It is crazy-making. He really doesn't get that they are good because they aren't comfortable yet. DS9 said they were really quiet on Saturday because they wanted WH to take them to McDonald's for dinner. I heard WH tell them this in the morning and DS9 said, "Can you tell us exactly what we have to do to be good?"(I was locking the front door. Okay, I hung around a little too long but I wanted to hear what WH's response was.)
If OW's DD does actually take their toys on a regular basis, the IM's may need to mention it to WH, but oh-so-nicely. First, try a bunch of boy toys. Perhaps I should say boys' toys. Doesn't sound any better, but looks fine.
Our boys LOVE Tech Decks...DH and I hate them because they all come with these little teeny tiny wheels and trucks so that they can switch them out on the skateboards and they end up all over the house.
You can also get ramps for the Tech Decks...there are tons of them. Some are very big and bulky and they like to build big "skateparks" with them. I hate them because they take up a lot of space...thankfully we have a big playroom in our basement where they can set them up because they need a lot of space. Hint hint.
Oh! I forgot the best part...they make alot of noise as they are "tech decking" them all over the place...on tables, the floor, the counters. This constant noise starts to get on your nerves and we find ourselves snatching them away from the boys when our tolerance level has reached it's limit.
I did look at the tech decks today. I got 3 1000 piece puzzles, 2 slinkys and a box of games such as chinese checkers, pick up sticks and snakes and ladders. I thought about another thing that I can get at the dollar store, MARBLES.
Just sayin'.... <Though I do love Samoas as well.>
Are you just getting yours now? We got ours a few weeks ago and they are gone. I think they lasted a little longer this time...like, 6 hours. That's a record around here.
Just sayin'.... <Though I do love Samoas as well.>
Are you just getting yours now?
I did not order any !!!!!!!! DH bought some. DD also bought some. We are currently, fresh out.
For years (6 years ???) I did the cookie sales thing, with DD. We did pull off some damn entertaining sidewalk cookie sales escapades, I must say. Sang 'n danced for the cookie-buying public. Mock fainting. Poetry reciting, lamenting the lack of thin mints for the majority of the year. (Our troop had some very talented & goofy Girl Scouts)
We've never done Girl Scouts...oldest DD wasn't interested but youngest DD has expressed interest...maybe next year.
DH and I couldn't believe it when we went to Loewe's on the day of cookie distribution to the troop leaders...the parking lot was taken over by semi's full of pallets of cookies and the line wrapped around 3 full sides of the store, no kidding! I mean, I know they're good and all...but really? I can't even begin to imagine how long it took to get through that line...though I am appreciative to DD's BFF's mom who had to stand in that line to get our cookies.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Second night in a row that WH didn't call my boys. I am angry about that. He used to pride himself on being such a good Dad and POSOW used to even comment about it. Well, I guess that was my DH NOT WH. And he is WH now through and through. I have always been the type of parent that doesn't impose my own anger on to a sitch that the kids are in. I asked them if it bothered them that WH didn't call and they said, "No." Then I asked if they wanted to write an email and they said, "No" so I am just gonna vent on here, document it and then let it go(OKAY only SORT OF).
Sorry to hear that, Scotland! At least the boys seem to either be ignoring their dad's inattentiveness or have moved on. We lucked out tonight and WH called my kids tonight. He was in a good mood and talked quite a bit. Nothing important, just idle chit chat.
Keeping you in my prayers and sending you many hugs!
This is precisely what I HATE about myself. I need to change this behaviour for SURE. I sometimes react to things BEFORE getting ALL of the info. I was going to bed and I looked at my cell. WH texted me(yes I know, he's not supposed to and I am NOT supposed to read it) I didn't realize it was a text from HIM. I just say words going across the front of my cell saying, "...at hospital passing kidney stone...." I read that and then just checked who it was sent from. It said it was WH so I just deleted it without reading the rest. I am NOT even telling DSx2 about it.
It did make me have a weird dream though. My dream was about WH. My Mom was at my house and my Dad came to visit. WH came down the street in a front end loader. He tried to talk to me. I wouldn't talk to him because he was still with POSOW. He left but he had the bucket of the front end loader up and it hit power wires. I started screaming for someone to call 911. My Dad did. My WH came out of the front end loader and was okay. That's when I woke up. WEIRD WEIRD.
In Plan B, WH isn't supposed to contact you directly except in case of emergency. Having felt a kidney stone myself, I would call it an emergency, lol.
Having said that, it's probably just as well you didn't read the rest - you got all the important info.
Your dream is pretty accurate, too. WS's seldom come out ok till there's a crash. You can't make an omelet without breaking a few power lines, or something like that.
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Second night in a row that WH didn't call my boys. I am angry about that. He used to pride himself on being such a good Dad and POSOW used to even comment about it. Well, I guess that was my DH NOT WH. And he is WH now through and through. I have always been the type of parent that doesn't impose my own anger on to a sitch that the kids are in. I asked them if it bothered them that WH didn't call and they said, "No." Then I asked if they wanted to write an email and they said, "No" so I am just gonna vent on here, document it and then let it go(OKAY only SORT OF).
Honestly, these kids FEEL that he is waynerd dad, and waynerd dad is WAY different that real dad. That's why they don't want to communicate with him. They know the difference.
Smart boys, your kids.
(and I stepped on a tech deck screwdriver last night...I said words that would peel paint)
I too have had a kidney stone. Many people liken it to child birth and to some point I agree. I didn't bring home my kidney stone and nurture it though. I wasn't HAPPY to experience THAT.
I feel bad for him but in a LITTLE way(okay maybe not so LITTLE), I am happy he is feeling some PAIN. My friend said that it is funny. My WH hasn't been to the emergency room in 14 years and now he has been twice in 2 months. I thought that was a little funny too.
Dea-I never thought of it like that. That makes PERFECT sense. They don't see him as their real Dad, he is an alien to them too. LIGHT BULB. BRAVA. Learning everyday. I am a student of life.
Hey, I came up with a few more things I could become. Here are a few I am tossing around at the moment, virtual assistant, air traffic controller, web designer and PR Rep. Lots of options for me out there and things I might enjoy doing.
SSO-That would be an idea. I just have to become a TEACHER first. I will add it to my list. I have thought about a career counselor. My list keeps growing and that to me is a good thing. I will just have to pick one, devise a PLAN and then go for it.
I am watching Fireproof right now and I must say, I pulled out the box of tissues. WOW, no wonder everyone talks about how AWESOME this movie is.
If you liked Fireproof, you'll also like their other movies. We just watched Flywheel last night. It was AJ's first time seeing it, and he almost injured himself laughing.
I LOVE COMPUTERS. That is how that one got on the list. That is also why Web Designer is on the list too because I took 1st year Computer Programming in College and I loved it. Even better was that when I went back to my HS to apply for college, I told my GC what I was applying for and he said, "About time."
I am keeping my options open and seeing what would be the best fit. It isn't about money(although it's not like I wanna work for FREE), it's about how it fits with my new reality and how it makes me feel.
I think becoming a DIVA is a prerequisite to become a "Housewife of _____ County". Job looks easy though... fight with your friends, fight with your husband, be snarky, go shopping, spend money you don't have, party all the time and pretend you're having a wonderful time doing it! I don't think you'd make it as a Housewife though, you're waaayyy too nice.
I think becoming a DIVA is a prerequisite to become a "Housewife of _____ County". Job looks easy though... fight with your friends, fight with your husband, be snarky, go shopping, spend money you don't have, party all the time and pretend you're having a wonderful time doing it! I don't think you'd make it as a Housewife though, you're waaayyy too nice.
Oh NO NATURAL TATAS DON'T COUNT. SOrry I have DD's HAHAHAHAHAHA so I don't count. Whenever I think of fake TATAS, I remember my Dad making comments about Dog the bounty Hunter's wife having WATERMELONS for TATAS
Geez, I hadn't realized that I didn't write on MY thread in a couple of days.
I was having a bit of a "day" yesterday. I made plans to go out for lunch with a few moms from the school. I got dolled up and they complimented me. I must have been thinking about WH too much though because I was feeling a bit down. I went to bed early because I was SO tired.
This morning, I got to sleep in until 8am(woooohoooo). I could hear the boys downstairs playing games. I just thought about my sitch. I feel down about it again but not as bad as yesterday. Yesterday, I was doing the "what ifs" again. Those SUCK.
I am gonna get through this rough patch. I am still better than I was before but I think it is part of the process. I need to focus on getting me better and taking care of the kids.
It is technically the first day of March Break and they are already saying they are bored. This is gonna be FUN(sarcasm).
Well, today is a funny day. It is RAINING which generally makes people stay in doors and wanna sleep. The clocks go forward tonight. I mentioned something to DS9 about how I hope that WH remembers to set his clock forward so I won't be late for work. DS9 took it upon himself to say, "Daddy, Mommy wanted me to remind you to turn your clocks forward tonight." My eyes bugged out and my heart sank. I didn't tell him to tell him. AHHHHHHHH now WH thinks I am passing messages through my DS9.
So about 45 seconds later, DS9(still talking to WH) says, "I don't know why Daddy is asking me to say this but he wants to know what size shoes DS7 wears." I just shook my head. Then he said, "She won't tell me. I will just find out and tell you tomorrow." Then he looked at me and covered the phone and said, "Is it size 2?" I shook my head. Then he said, "Size 3?" and I whispered, "I am not answering." I said, "Just talk to your father." DS9 started talking to WH. He mentioned the games and then told WH that I bought them more things yesterday.
Guess what I bought? Army men, marbles(100 for 88cents), and a BOWLING SET. Yeppers, BOWLING. That should be nice and QUIET. HEHEHEHEHEHE. DS9 said, "We can use that long hallway for a bowling alley. It is really long and that will be AWESOME." I had to hide my smile. I think next week I am sending whoopie cushions and super bouncy balls. My kids LOVE those too.
Anyways, so I explained to DS9 that I didn't ask him to send that message to WH. He said he knew but he also wanted to make sure that WH remembered too. Then I said, "I don't like it when Daddy send messages through you and now he thinks I sent one through you." He said, "Oh. I didn't think of that." I said, "It's okay." He said that he would just tell WH DS7's shoe size tomorrow and I said, "DS9, Daddy can figure out DS7's shoe size himself. I don't know why he was asking you now. He does have other options to find out." DS9 said, "Yea." and that was it.
I am not going to try to figure out WH's motives. I really don't care. It's not like he NEEDED to know DS7's shoe size right now. He isn't going to go buy the shoes tonight. Besides, he can just read DS7's boots in the morning. There VENT DONE.
I need to focus on getting me better and taking care of the kids.
No advice, Scot, just an observation: If/when your wh comes back, he's going to be one lucky son-of-a-gun. You're already "better" and improving daily through this struggle. Your kids are definitely lucky to have you.
I have a lot of 'what if' moments. Once in a while I have the good sense to throw in a good what if. Like,
Quote
what if I hadn't come across MB?
Where would I be if I hadn't worked really hard at recovery? What if I had really lost my cool?
Why ask about the shoe size through DS? Well, it's a close cousin of what I call "I Miss Jonah Syndrome".
When the kids were little, we had this adorable little black dog named Jonah. She, yes she, looked like a whippet, but I have no clue what she actually was. Then, while the kids and I were gone on a trip, she came up missing. The kids were sad for a day or two, but life went on and we got another dog. However, for YEARS afterward, whenever little Mr. C became upset about something else, he would wail, "I MISS JONAH!!!!!!!!" That became his excuse basket to put every bad and sad feeling for years. No, he wasn't upset because someone called him names. He just missed Jonah. No, he wasn't upset because he got in trouble. He just missed Jonah.
WH is kinda doing the same thing - because he wants to keep reaching out (in a disrespectful way because he's not considering your boundaries yet), he will find ANY EXCUSE no matter how flimsy to try and get some little ittle bitty peek from you. Waving flags and jumping up and down and shouting, just hoping that for one tiny second you will notice him...acknowledge him...validate him.
It's driving him nuts that you won't. And even if he thought at the time that you sent the message about the clocks, a small part of his brain has to be saying wait, if she wouldn't even tell me the shoe size, why would she tell me about the clocks?
PS Shortly after we got back from the trip, a horrible smell began emanating from under the house on one side, where a vent cover was missing. For a month or two I couldn't even go out there, pregnant and very sensitive to bad smells as I was.
For some reason I couldn't get AJ to go under the house, either. We just figured it would go away eventually, and it did.
Later, Buster, a huge naughty dog that destroyed and ate everything in sight, managed to squeeze his bulk under the house somehow, and clawed up the walls pretty good before he got back out.
Several years after that, a heater duct repair guy found Jonah's bones, just as we suspected. "It was horrible," he said with a catch in his voice, "there were claw marks all over where the poor thing tried to get out."
AWWW. I miss Jonah too now. That story was so sad. I want a puppy. I am actively looking now. The boys and I really want one. I am looking for a lab mix since that's what we had last time and WE LOVED HER. I was thinking about names and I came up with "Scooch" I always say this to the kids when they are in my way. DS7 loves it.
I saw the questioning about the shoes as exactly what it was, a way to peak behind my curtain but the curtain is nailed shut until either WH agrees to my 6 requirements(that's just for me to open the curtain) or I have to do an Operation Olive Branch: PART DEUX. SHUDDER. I am not looking forward to that again. I mean the feelings that show up a few days later.
AWWW. I want a puppy. I am actively looking now. The boys and I really want one. I am looking for a lab mix since that's what we had last time and WE LOVED HER. I was thinking about names and I came up with "Scooch" I always say this to the kids when they are in my way. DS7 loves it.
Check out the lab rescues, one of the hardest dogs to adopt out right now are black labs. My last rescue is a black lab and she is becoming an awesome dog. The rescue said many people of scared of black dogs and there are many, many black labs in need of a good home.
So, The kids log on to their email this morning and DS9 says, "Mommy there is a message here for you." WH has forwarded a message from the phone and internet company about the latest bill. This is very inappropriate. I forwarded the email to the IMs with a message that this was inappropriate and that they needed to tell WH that. Any ideas on what they should say? I can't really think about how to say it in a "nice" way. All of me wants to block his email address for this. I won't but I really want to do it.
We had one visit us this morning. It was the same one I clobbered a couple weeks ago, or rather, it clobbered me. It ran out in the street and smacked right into the van while trying to eat it. Didn't phase it in the least.
Now it was over lopping happily around waiting for me to let Clancy out, probably so they can go eat the dead skunk together.
Most black labs have more brain cells in their pinky toe than this one does in its whole beautiful head.
or I have to do an Operation Olive Branch: PART DEUX. SHUDDER. I am not looking forward to that again. I mean the feelings that show up a few days later.
You don't ever have to do another one ... unless you want to.
Well, that would have been a thought, but instead I did talk to IM's and they did send him an email pretty much saying that it is not okay to send messages through the boys, and if WH needs to send messages to me, he should send it to them and they will pass on the relevant info. They also told WH that they will be filtering the boys' emails from now on.
I don't think that was a bad thing to do. Especially after WH tried to find out DS7's shoe size on Saturday night. I can see how it would have been better to just ignore it but since this is already done, I will just have to file that for next time. This Plan B thing is hard to figure out sometimes but I am learning.
Oh BOOGERS. Just got an email from IM's saying that WH would like to remind me not to send messages through the children like Saturday. Well, I am not engaging that one. I didn't actually send the message but I am not going to defend myself on that one. It is DONE and I will not respond to anything, just like I did with the text message. Well, learning is a GREAT GIG.
Not-It's not that I am doubting myself, I just like to do things to the best of my abilities and sometimes I feel like I did something wrong and I should have known better. My Dad always told me that we learn something new everyday and the day we stop learning is the day we die(only because he believes that you join with GOD and gain all knowledge). I just have to remember to stick with my PLAN and I will be okay.
Opt- My WH has always had a problem with following my Plan B. He has not been happy about the NC AT ALL. A few of my IRL friends believe that some of the things he does or says is just so I will crack. Could be, but it really doesn't matter to me. WH forwarded a message from the phone company that was a reminder that the bill hadn't been paid. I have access to it online and it will be paid on Friday so no biggie. I changed the email address that the reminder gets sent to, so I don't have to worry anymore.
WH knows that he could have and should have sent it to the IM's but DS9's slip might have made WH think that I had opened the curtain.
WH is telling DS9 to wave when I open the house door so he knows I am home. He only does that when I don't stand behind the door(we have frosted windows and once I realized WH could see in, I stay back). I also won't talk at all while the kids are on the phone. He also lets the answering machine pick up now when he calls(it is my voice on the message, I think my mission for tomorrow is to get the kids to record a new message)
Tonight when WH called DS9, he told him that he was playing pool 3 blocks away from our house. DS9 said, "Should I tell Mommy where you are playing?" and then he became quiet. It was funny. Maybe he is making sure that he doesn't cross the line and get a message from IM's again.
I think my mission for tomorrow is to get the kids to record a new message
Oooh, ya beat me to it. Great idea!
The meaning to his little kick of late is not so deep. He doesn't like Plan B, it drives him nuts that he thinks you broke PB to pass messages but won't let him, and it will drive him even nutser when you don't respond to his response to not send messages to the kids.
If my WH ever makes it to this board, that should be his nickname HAHAHAHAHA Prof Mr Scotland. I LOVE IT.
I had a good laugh at Pep's comments too.
So what should I be when I grow up? HAHAHAHA sorry, I had to change the subject and I couldn't think of what to write. ME ME ME. Refocusing now.
BTW neak. "Nutser" is that a word I have never heard of before? Oops I googled it(I LOVE GOOGLE) and this is the definition of the word in the urban dictionary(learned something new AGAIN today)"a somewhat kind term for someone who has clearly lost their sh_t. Especially someone who was somewhat crazy to begin with, but has somehow surpassed crazy. this word especially refers to ex's, bosses, housemates, ex-housemates... and ex's" Hmmmmm a word to add to our vocab for sure.
Oh, I had the most HORRIBLE dream this morning. I was waiting outside for WH to drop off the kids. He pulled up and we started talking. I got in to the truck and WH was talking to me about things his mom had given him from his childhood(their apt burned down when he was 5 so there is actually nothing from that time). I was talking to him and asking him how things were going. It was easy. Then we got out of the truck. He sat down and I sat on his lap and we started kissing. I was thinking about how it was wrong and bad because I was BREAKING MY PLAN B(I really was thinking this). Then I caught myself NOT saying DJ, and not committing AO's. Then I thought about safe sex, and that's when I woke up.
I know TMI. Sorry but it felt so real and I thought it was funny that even in my DREAM I was feeling guilty about breaking Plan B.
Remember, he affaired down way under the kind of awesome woman you are. You know how stubborn he is and how much he doesn't ever want to admit he is wrong. You amaze me in how much you love him but are standing up for what you know is right. Right for you, the kids, and even him when he doesn't see it or know it.
Just a word of encouragement because I had a feeling you needed it.
So what do you wanna be when YOU grow up? I wanna be a Cowboy...
Side effects may include brain cramps, delusions of grandeur, psychotic feelings of self importance, inability to string together logical thoughts, rampant entitlement, problems keeping your pants on, uncontrolled fear of morals, inability to answer any question without lying and a rash that says �STUPID� on your forehead.
If you take Waywardall and you experience any of these side effects shoot yourself immediately and do us all a favor.
PM-I am glad that you posted it to my thread, sometimes I think Pep's sigs are HELAIRYUS and I wouldn't want to lose them.
Had a bad couple of days. Felling bad and then I did the UNTHINKABLE. I broke Plan B. WAIT. NOT LIKE THAT. I read some of the old Facebook messages from WH. Things where he told me that I had nothing to worry about POSOW because she was at a lower level than me and she wasn't any competition and although we had some hard times, we would still make it. Looking back, I can't tell if this is where it was clear or partly foggy. I had a good cry and that hadn't happened in a while.
Took the boys to Pizza Hut for their lunch buffet with a friend and her 2 kids. Then I took them to the dollar store to buy some things. Went online to find some more job listings. We are now gonna watch Indiana Jones now so Bu-Bye.
Well and update on my Mom and Dad CRAZY MAKING story. My Dad must now be in a kind of Plan F/U. My Mom goes to his house every Friday night after she drops her POSOM off at work. She stopped by my house first. She is always excited to go there. Today was no exception. She called me from my sister's house. She told me that when she walked into my Dad's house(the house they used to share), there was a girl there. My Dad introduced them to eachother. My Mom got mad and left. Then she had to call me to tell me how horrible it was for my Dad to do that to her.
She talked to me for a few minutes and I have always been able to kind of ignore people's rants. With the way I have been feeling for the past few days, it was hard not to just hang up. Then she said, "You get what I am saying right?" I said, "Mom, I am upset and I have been having a few really bad days. I can't deal with someone else's crap right now." Wayturds wherever I turn. AHHHHHHHH.
I have always been a person that answers a DIRECT question. I can beat around the bush and I can try really hard NOT to hurt someone, but I am known for my directness.
I am also helping my sister through her relationship probs and my BIL too. My bestfriend's hubby is away at military training and I am helping her too. I am glad I have this place so I can have someone helping ME. Thanx MB.
Enough of the pity party for myself. I need to de-funk myself NOW. HEHEHEHE.
Well, not much to talk about on the Scotty front. Not great feelings but a lot of growing coming out of them so they are good. I have tried to write down some thoughts on here for the past 2 days but it didn't seem to come out right. I am not constantly thinking about WH and even find myself realizing that it has been a few hours since I last thought about him. Work isn't great right now. I need to find a new job quick so I can feel better on that front.
Seriously looking for a puppy for us. I am putting it out there and people are keeping an ear to the ground for me.
Due to WH's kidney stone incident from last week, his pay cheque was pathetic. If we had separate finances, he would have had very little for the next 2 weeks. That makes me think about geeting serious about splitting the finances, I am hoping I can get a better paying job with more hours and benefits so I won't have to keep our finances together much longer. I am going to let WH separate the finances since I am sure that it will be from POSOW's influence over WH not contributing to her household. Won't that be GRAND.
I have also stopped telling people what they shouldn't say to WH. There are people in my life who want to give WH and POSOW a piece of their mind and I used to tell them that they shouldn't. Now I just tell them that I don't want to know about it and that they should do what they feel.
Funny thing too, my bestfriend and a good friend saw pics of POSOW and they said, "EWWWWWWW and YUCK." My good friend said, "She looks like a SKANK." Then my bf said, "she looks like a witch. What was WH thinking?" I know that it is shallow, but it made me feel a little better because I KNOW that on the inside I am WAY better than her.
Well, I am gonna call it an early night. I still seem to get plagued by the dreams and wake up at 330am and again at 6am.
There are people in my life who want to give WH and POSOW a piece of their mind and I used to tell them that they shouldn't.
Scotland, this is one of the BEST BENEFITS of exposure when your friends and family give him a piece of your mind. Hopefully someone will get through to him so I would ENCOURAGE them to talk to him!
Scotty, I love reading your thread, I get a lot of inspiration from you. I feel like I am right behind you in terms of this whole experience. I completely understand your down days, those are still everyday for me. Keep hanging tough.
Scotty, I love reading your thread, I get a lot of inspiration from you. I feel like I am right behind you in terms of this whole experience. I completely understand your down days, those are still everyday for me. Keep hanging tough.
Scotty, I love reading your thread, I get a lot of inspiration from you. I feel like I am right behind you in terms of this whole experience. I completely understand your down days, those are still everyday for me. Keep hanging tough.
ML-Yea, I guess I was slow to figure out the benefit of exposure in that way. My friends wanted to tell him what they really thought and I wanted to spare him the pain. Oh Silly me. They didn't bring it up again until recently and then I just said, "I am not going to tell you what to do or what not to do and I don't want to know about it." I think it was from reading other people's threads and advice and realizing that others had people who did this for them. I also said that I felt like I had no one else fighting for my M and against the adultery and I was praying for more soldiers in my fight. That's when I noticed the friends talking about giving him a piece of their mind and I realized that they were my soldiers.
Neak-A sniper eh? Well, some of us might have wanted to use your services J/K(mostly).
SSO-Thanx. I am able to get out of my funk, most times. I just feel like I should post things on here for the people who lurk so they will know that what they feel is normal. I keep getting told that I am so strong, but I know there are days when I am not. I know I can help others by sharing on those days too, so they can experience the whole process with me.
Mymissy- (((((MYMISSY))))) Oh hun. I don't think you understand how much YOU have helped ME. When you came on here, I saw myself all over again. You have grown so much. There are times when I am amazed at your constraint(that darn pic of POSOW). Your words are encouraging. Thank You.
ML-Yea, I guess I was slow to figure out the benefit of exposure in that way. My friends wanted to tell him what they really thought and I wanted to spare him the pain. Oh Silly me.
Let them go for it! It is more often the case I think that people do NOT want to talk about this stuff, and will do ANYTHING to avoid the subject, no matter what they say to your face.
ML-Yea, I guess I was slow to figure out the benefit of exposure in that way. My friends wanted to tell him what they really thought and I wanted to spare him the pain. Oh Silly me.
Let them go for it! It is more often the case I think that people do NOT want to talk about this stuff, and will do ANYTHING to avoid the subject, no matter what they say to your face.
Keep hanging in there!
Yeah, I wish my church would have addressed my wifes emotional issues and her alcholism. She would have been here today if they had more practical advice. Many churches have the guts to help us mortal humans. Others are to afraid to admit that they still are human and can fall into poor thinking. Maybe only giving people half the truth keeps them in business, maybe they just need to see ppl live in misery and enslaved to thier emotions so they can justify thier own.
Can you tell I have a problem with people hiding thier heads in the sand? Sorry for the TJ Scotty.
And how's your weather? It's been great here, though a little colder today and a chance of rain/snow tonight. We haven't had any rain yet this year that I've seen.
Well, it rained for 5 days. SUNNY and a HIGH of 10C(50F) and it is BEAUTIFUL. It is March afterall. Only 9 more months until Christmas Eve. (EVIL SMILE)
And really TB? You guys wear coats in that kind of weather? My kids went out in hoodies this morning and I had to FORCE them to wear them so I would be a Good MOM HAHAHAHAHA.
SSO- NO EXPOS ON THIS THREAD. There are some things I won't allow HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
I got to finally walk around the track with my friends in the morning again. We did a mile and a half this morning(up from a mile before the winter). I am easing into it. Then we went shopping at COSTCO. WOOOOHOOO it was FUN.
Yes, and the land of fruits and nuts will never, ever, ever be the same. Got news for ya though, MA'AM, when I come out to visit there had BETTER BE ANOTHER GET-TOGETHER!!!!!!!
I used to love to work outside when it was around 40 deg F. I would wear a sweater and a tuk and if it got too hot off came the sweater. Living further south now when I go north I freeze my butt off LOL.
When I moved here I was up on a telephone pole and was wearing a teeshirt and fishing vest in oct. A customer asked me if I was cold and I was sweating in Oct.
It's chilly today but not raining YET so we still went for our walk. The kids went out in hoodies again and I was wearing gloves.
SSO- what is a TUK? It's called a toque.
Now on my Plan B front. I would like to do another Operation: Olive branch. I know that I am supposed to space them out to about every 2 months or so. I have to do it on a Saturday or Sunday. Here is my problem. 8 weeks after the last Operation:Olive Branch is WH's bday. 8 weeks after that is DS9's bday(and father's day the next day). I was thinking that April 3rd would probably be the better timeframe then and it would be done at the beginning of the month so it doesn't look like I am doing things around family days. Or would family days be better?
I have a movie figured out for the operation. I am going to get Top Gun. Now the reason I picked this movie is because WH and I were both in Air Cadets. That's where we met. At every cadet training weekend, we would watch Top Gun and at every dance, we would sing, "You've lost that loving feeling." I sang it to WH MANY times during these dances.
I would need someone with MAD SKILLS(HINT HINT NEAK) to come up with a brilliant thing for me to say.
SSO- what is a TUK? It's called a toque. ..... ...
I have a movie figured out for the operation. I am going to get Top Gun. Now the reason I picked this movie is because WH and I were both in Air Cadets. That's where we met. At every cadet training weekend, we would watch Top Gun and at every dance, we would sing, "You've lost that loving feeling." I sang it to WH MANY times during these dances.
Aw that is cool and sweet. What is "air cadets"? I know what a space cadet is...
I would need someone with MAD SKILLS(HINT HINT NEAK) to come up with a brilliant thing for me to say.
Thoughts?
Yes neak allways seems to have very good ideas. I would say "stop acting like an iceman" or "hey WH your ego is writing checks it can't cash" or "He is having a confidance problem"
Or somthin dumb like that..
Neak can come up with something much more appealing and I being a guy am clueless. I will read it though and tell ya what I think...(like you doubted I would lol..)
Air cadets is a branch of the Canadian military. It is kind of like boy scouts. It was started in 1914 as a way for them to pre-train teenagers for a few years before they join the Air Force(we also have Army Cadets and Sea Cadets). You wear a uniform that resembles that of the military. You do military training(discipline, drill, leadership, etc). It was where I experienced some of the best times of my life. I still have LIFE LONG friends that I met through Air Cadets. It helped me become the person that I am today, and for that I am GRATEFUL.
"... (the) rules of engagement are written for your safety and for that of your team. They are not flexible, nor am I. Either obey them or you are history. Is that clear?"
WANTED:Top Gun pilot, age 35-37, to fly lifelong mission. Committed (and beautiful!) navigator already on board, as well as 2 FT miniature mechanics. So close we're like family, and only need one pilot to complete the team! To apply, call 800-555-NOHO.
WANTED: Top Gun pilot, age 35-37, to fly lifelong mission. Committed (and beautiful!) navigator already on board, as well as 2 FT miniature mechanics. So close we're like family, and only need one pilot to complete the team! To apply, call 800-555-NOHO.
WANTED:Top Gun pilot, age 35-37, to fly lifelong mission. Committed (and beautiful!) navigator already on board, as well as 2 FT miniature mechanics. So close we're like family, and only need one pilot to complete the team! To apply, call 800-555-NOHO.
I am over recovering from the last Operation:Olive branch. I found my strength again. What it was was the timing thing. My friend brought it up yesterday and I was thinking about it. If I am going to do another one, I will need to be ready for it. It was only 1 month and 5 days ago. I just want to prepare myself.
I don't think it was just the Olive Branch. I found myself thinking about WH too much again. That was bugging me. I also think it was a part of the grieving process again. I did feel down but lately I have been feeling pretty good. I just like to be prepared.
I could go with doing it at the beginning of MAY instead. That way I have 5 more weeks instead of 1. I just wanted to make sure I had a plan.
I am rambling. Okay, this is why I brought it up today. I didn't realize, until my friend brought it up, that many of our special dates happen about 8 weeks from eachother. Since I have to do it on a day when WH comes to get the boys, there is an even amount of weeks to that.
I started Plan B on Dec18. 8 weeks later was our dating anniversary. Then 8 weeks after that is WH's bday. 8 weeks after that is DS9 bday. My friend asked me if I was trying to do these things on important dates. I didn't think that would be a good idea. I was only asking which dates I should think about doing it. I know I will do it again. Just want to be prepared.
That's what I was thinking too. Whew, no more thinking about this for a few weeks.
Loved what you wrote Neak.
Getting on with life.
It did rain today and is COLD. DS9 has a sleep over tomorrow night so DS7 is having a sleepover in my room(with all of his cabbage patch kids and stuffed animals and his pillow he calls, "Baby".) I am going to take them to see "how to train a dragon." on saturday afternoon. Fun times ahead. WOOOHOOOO
Oh I forgot to mention. DS7 has had a MARVELOUS time at school this week(I hope I don't jinx it now since we have one more day for this week). I talked to his teacher this morning and she said that she has implemented some of my suggestions and he is doing GREAT. He is less frustrated with homework. It is great to hear.
DS9 was just on the phone with WH. WH asked to speak to DS7, who still refuses(has talked to him on the phone about 5 times in 3 months). DS9 said, "DS7, were you good at school?" DS7 said, "NOPE. I WAS BAD." Well, that wasn't true and I had to hide a laugh. Then DS9 got mad at WH and actually raised his voice when talking to him. He said, "I can't hear you. Talk LOUDER." Then DS9 mentioned that he was bored because he couldn't play his DS while talking to WH so WH told him he would let him get back to his game and they hung up. Heartbreaking. Consequences suck.
Puppies are a great commitment and when we had to put our dog to sleep 2 years ago, we talked about getting another dog. We wanted to give ourselves enough time to grieve. DSx2 and I wanted to get a puppy, WH wanted a dog that was about 6mos-1year old. He didn't want to house break it. I know why the boys want a puppy though, they have never experienced that. I want a puppy so I can train it from the beginning. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the idea of adopting dogs from a shelter(my mom has done it twice and a friend is a foster parent for dogs). When our wonderful dog had her only litter of puppies(15), DS9 was 1.5. He doesn't really remember them. I just figure since the one obstacle for us getting a PUPPY was WH and he isn't here, then we would just go for it. I wanted to get passed the winter first so it would be easier to house break the puppy and get it used to walking outside.
Well, when you adopt an older dog that has already been housebroken, you often have to housebreak the dog again. Not sure why, except that it has to do with disruption of the dog's living conditions/routines.
I think it's MUCH better to adopt a puppy because the puppy can be taught desirable behaviors from the beginning and it won't have undesirable behaviors to unlearn.
I got my best and favorite dog when he was only 5 weeks old, and he was a true joy and my best friend who loved me no matter what. I had him for over 13 years, and it broke my heart to have to put him to sleep when cancer made him so sick.
LS- I AGREE that is why I want to get a puppy. I too got my dog at 5 weeks old. She was 11 when we had to put her to sleep because she had throat cancer and could no longer swallow. This was May/08. We are definitely READY for a new friend in our life. It is nice not having to confer with someone else on this, I get to make BIG GIRL decisions all on my own.
LS- I AGREE that is why I want to get a puppy. I too got my dog at 5 weeks old. She was 11 when we had to put her to sleep because she had throat cancer and could no longer swallow. This was May/08. We are definitely READY for a new friend in our life. It is nice not having to confer with someone else on this, I get to make BIG GIRL decisions all on my own.
Lol bigirl..
Hey guys I am not ont the scheming board but just a question to scotty and you all. Would it yank at WH heartstrings if he was somehow consulted on the doggy? Is this possible to incorporate into the olive branch/plan A spirit of the plan B? Just wondering how the new pup would make WH feel and of course I just love to stress out OW with more of WH wishing he was home.
Since I am in Plan B and no thinking of WH allowed, I don't really give a whoopity hoot what WH would think about the puppy. I only care that I would make myself and my 2 boys happy with a puppy.
There will be no consulting with WH about the puppy. WH will know about it because DS9 tells him EVERYTHING, but I don't want his input at all. Sorry, this sounds a little cranky but it really isn't.
It will also give him the message that, while he is still WANTED, as long as he is committing adultery, he has NO SAY-SO in your life.
I was thinking about TST and SMB last night, and I think that the first inkling that he might come back (even though we didn't realize it at the time) was when some people from their church came over to finish the drywall of their kitchen renovation (which was started before he moved out). Well, TNT apparently couln't stand having other people taking care of HIS family, and he came over and started redoing their work. I can remember SMB posting about how her kids watched him working on the walls like he had gone plumb, totally out of what little mind he had left!
Got anything around the house that needs taking care of...and which would totally bum him out if somebody else did it? Just an idea...
There are a few things around the house that WH said he would fix after he moved out(of course this was before he knew about my marvelous Plan B0 The porch roof needs fixing. My BIL has told me that he would be willing to help me out with that. It is the front of the house so it will be noticeable. I am also going to redo the bathroom and fix the leaking roof. Man, this house is falling apart HAHAHAHAHA. I am just getting the money saved up. I don't think it would have an effect on WH but it needs to be fixed anyways. He let the house slide while he was committing adultery. I am gonna pick up the pieces.
In the meantime, maybe you could make some changes in the house. You can bet that the boys will tell him all about it.
Take down any pictures with him in them (but leave one or two in teh boys' rooms). Rearrange the furniture. Paint walls, or maybe even some furniture that you're tired of. Slipcover some pillows (easy to do, even if you're not all that handy with sewing). Just change things up a little.
I did paint the hallway coming in the house. I haven't finished it yet but it is in the works. I have thought about changing the rooms around. Flipping the living room and dining room. Now that it is warmer out, I am going to get scrapping the wallpaper and painting. The only pic we have of WH is our family pic in the living room. I could move it in to the boys room. We got a table lamp in the dining room and DS9 told WH right away. I think it is hilarious when he tells WH things like that because it seems like a 9 year old wouldn't care about things like that and he makes it sound like he is so excited. He was excited about the new fridge too.
Since I am in Plan B and no thinking of WH allowed, I don't really give a whoopity hoot what WH would think about the puppy. I only care that I would make myself and my 2 boys happy with a puppy.
There will be no consulting with WH about the puppy. WH will know about it because DS9 tells him EVERYTHING, but I don't want his input at all. Sorry, this sounds a little cranky but it really isn't.
See thats why im not on the team...
Hey scotty sounds like you are gonna have fun in the house. yay!!
Oh goody, household repairs! Start with the porch roof just as soon as you possibly can. Tomorrow??? I know you can't afford everything at once, though it would be hilarious if you could ("Dad, Mom just re-did EVERYTHING!!!!!!"). And I know he'll hear about everything you do.
Still, something right in his face that he will have to look at every time he pulls up to pick up or drop off the boys...that looks like Point A to me.
Without wasting a lot of time trying to figure out his reactions, there are things you can do strategically even in PB that may be helpful. Just toss them out there to happen, and then don't waste another thought on whether they did what you hoped.
I had to wait for the snow to melt off of the roof and for the heaven's to stop crying(it is March, we could get another snow fall, but I doubt it). The porch roof is definitely going to be the first thing even if I have to get up there and do it myself, which would be hilarious since I abhor heights. I am going to ask my BIL about helping me out with a ladder, etc and my Dad has some shingles so it won't cost me too much money for the roof. I made sure I took before pics. It will be AWESOME to compare the after shots.
This morning, with all of this talk about re-dos, I set up my hallway. I put up the new shoe organizers and got rid of the winter stuff. DS9 will LOVE it. DS7 helped me a bit. They can't wait to help me paint.
Taking the boys to see "how to train a dragon" this afternoon. My friend had passes for the kids so I only have to pay for myself.
Feeling GREAT today and the sun is SHINING. It's a bit chilly but that's okay.
I was thinking about TST and SMB last night, and I think that the first inkling that he might come back (even though we didn't realize it at the time) was when some people from their church came over to finish the drywall of their kitchen renovation (which was started before he moved out). Well, TST apparently couln't stand having other people taking care of HIS family, and he came over and started redoing their work. I can remember SMB posting about how her kids watched him working on the walls like he had gone plumb, totally out of what little mind he had left!
.....OMG....that story was HILARIOUS!!!...their kitchen was totally gutted when TST abandoned them....People came over and put wall up....TST came and took them out!!!!!!...... ....PURE MADNESS....I had the nearly the SAME THING happen.....
((((Scotty))))),
This is a GREAT IDEA!!!! Seriously.....men in general, do NOT LIKE other's taking care of their families, even if THEY aren't taking care of them. It's a PRIDE thing. And if you can get BIL to help, even BETTER!!!! BUT an even better side-effect to doing this besides what it does to WH, is it will EMPOWER you!!!!
Yes Neak I wanted to say just have fun too. If she is having fun then she will automatically be drawing him.
Ok so I'm on the team too. I just know that the first string players in the plan games are you guys lol. I am totally satisfied warming the bench when I am not up.
If you ever have a chance to see it or get your hands on it, do. It's such a powerful illustration of how our senses can deceive us, and our need to follow a plan outside ourselves.
The movie was CUTE. I thought that I would be safe with the previews but then that blasted Becel commercial came on about a couple and they are in love and then the man dies. It sucked so bad. I almost started tearing up but then I distracted myself thinking about the renos The boys had a great time too.
DS9 is TIRED. Looks like it will be an early night tonight(good thing too, I am EXHAUSTED).
The main character's name in the movie was HICCUP. There was a preview for a new Karate Kid movie. It looks good.
Today, I received one of the best compliments I think I have ever received in my ENTIRE life. I had a co-worker say, "Scotty, you are wasting your talents here." I answered, "Don't I know it." with a smile on my face. It's good to know other people think that too.
DS7 was felling a little ill today when he came home from his visit with WH.
Life is okay. No change on the puppy front but I have put out more feelers.
Today, I received one of the best compliments I think I have ever received in my ENTIRE life. I had a co-worker say, "Scotty, you are wasting your talents here." I answered, "Don't I know it." with a smile on my face. It's good to know other people think that too.
DS7 was felling a little ill today when he came home from his visit with WH.
Life is okay. No change on the puppy front but I have put out more feelers.
Your a gem Scotty and pressure certainly has made you more of a diamond..
I am sure that you can handle another job position that you would find interesting work and pays more.
Today, I received one of the best compliments I think I have ever received in my ENTIRE life. I had a co-worker say, "Scotty, you are wasting your talents here." I answered, "Don't I know it." with a smile on my face. It's good to know other people think that too.
This doesn't surprise me at all....and I could say the EXACT same thing about wasting your time with your wh....but then I guess that wouldn't be very MBish of me and I'd hate to get banned.
Thank You SW, I know what you are saying. It's okay. You would be one of many people who would say that to me. WH was a really GREAT guy. We had few friends because we chose not to associate with people who didn't share the same values as us. Unfortunately, WH had boundary issues and got caught up in the dumsel in distress problem. I knew I was right about WH when I exposed to our closest friends and family and they were all shocked. He has his head firmly shoved up his bum right now and I hope that it can be removed. If not, I know I will be okay. I will be GREAT.
We have all discussed this before that WH is stubborn and weon't admit when he makes mistakes and now he is involved with POSOW and is stubborn and feels responsible ...
You know you are the best thing that ever happened to him..Whether he ever sees it again and reachs down between his legs and grabs his ears to pull his head out doesn't matter you still are.
Thank you for being you with your heart of forgivness and reconciliation.
My Dad has some left over shingles from when he redid his roof 2 years ago(weeks before my Mom left). I think they are black. Which will go with the red door I will be painting and the brick colour for the trim. Free is FREE.
My H took DS9 and DD13 and SIX of her friends to see the Dragon movie (dd was having a slumber party). I begged off because I of course was on cooking detail for the party....
Anyway, when they all got to theatre, DH told ALL 7 girls they had to leave their cell phones in the car. He HATES cell phone disruptions at the movies. Well he said by the looks on their faces you would have thought he was denying them AIR.....or at least speaking in tongues..... .....He's a tyrant, I tell ya. He did be accomidating. Y not sitting by them though..... They all enjoyed the movie. Me? I enjoyed 2 1/2 hrs of peace and quiet....
So, we all KNOW you are doing wonderful mom things, and we all know you are becoming the queen of domestic fix-it's, but what are you doing for Scotty????.....
How have you taken care of you? And what color are your toes?.....me thinks some self-TLC is in order.....
My toes are metallic silver. I read books and play on the computer and I am trying to find a new job. I hang out with friends and we started walking around the track again. I started a work out program too. Only the third day in but my arms and abs are killing me.
Family games night tonight. I wonder if we will play Nerf for wii. I like to shoot some stuff sometimes(and that is the one game that I can beat the kids, which they HATE).
Don't worry Not. I am still looking out for ME. Thanx for checking though.
Scotty, I have to say I have followed your thread and often feel as though you are "just ahead of me" in terms of plan A and B. I think you have demonstrated tremendous strength and continue to grow personally. I only hope I can continue to be as positive about myself as you are for yourself. You have been an inspiration for me to follow. Thank You, it helps with hope.
Thanx Mymissy, you'll get there. And some of the things you have gone through, I don't think I could have handled as well as you. Knowing that I am helping also makes me feel good. Thanx for stopping by and sharing.
I think you are right. And to think, WH felt so bad for POSOW because she WAS a single mother to her DD11. HMmmmmmmm Me thinks I am now a single mother to DSx2. Maybe I am wrong(looks around) NOPE I am right. HAHAHAHA.
Just got off of the phone with my Mom. She said, "It's sad. Our holidays are getting smaller with less people." I said, "yep, but not because of ME." She said, "what do you mean?" I said, "Well, if it were up to me, WH would be home and not sleeping with another person while I was at home." She said, "You're right" I had to hold in, "Or maybe Dad would be a little happier not to have his wife sleeping with another man." She keeps telling me that she is so depressed and her counselor this and her counselor that and how her counselor told her to tell me things. I told her that I am following the guidance of a counselor who has 35+ years of experience in helping peopl through ADULTERY and when her counselor had that kind of street cred, I would listen to him/her. I hope my kids will talk to me in the same way when they grow up.
Saying that reminded me about what happened afterschool today. Us Moms found out that 3 of the 9+10 year old boys snuck out of the house Friday night to go to 7-11 at 230am. My DS9 wasn't one of them, but I was mad at him because he should have said something. He should have told the Dad. e should have told his friends not to do it. I told DS9 that a good friend tells you when you are doing something stupid and they won't go along with it. I think I got my point across. I said that that's what we do as adults and we are okay with it. We don't always have to agree but we know that if someone thinks we are making a mistake, they will tell us. Life's lessons come from EVERYWHERE.
I was on the "sleep talking man" web site this morning and I found a quote that would describe Wayturds. "Scientists in the future will completely struggle to work out how you were ever classified as an intelligent life form." HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE IT.
Just wanted to add some levity to my Thread this morning. There are many other funny quotes on there.
Well, I do tell my Mom some things but I really feel like she is teetering on the edge. She is severely depressed(getting medicated and counseling). I do tell her some things as it deals with ME. There have been many times that she has gotten mad about the things I say to her and she hangs up on me. I think she is trying to guilt me into going to her place for Easter dinner. I have the firm boundary of the fact that I will not be around her POSOM. I feel bad for not doing it sooner but I am firm on it now. Like I always say, "When I know better, I do better." Now that I KNOW what I should do, I am doing it. I just have to treat her with kid gloves. I do get some things through. I just have to bite my tongue sometimes.
Sometime you might also tell her, "I can't wait till you and WH are both home where you belong."
Even if you have doubts as to whether a particular WS will actually come home, never verbalize them when they'd find out. The shining confidence of a BS in the return shakes the WS confidence in the stayaway.
And perhaps add in, "...please don't take my silence as approval of your A, I don't, I am trying hard to maintain a R with you and keeping quiet is sometimes the best way I know how..."
I like that. I will try to stick that in. Now when I call her, I only let it ring twice, then she calls me back. I don't want to talk to POSOM. I told her in a snow storm that I would rather walk to work then let her POSOM drive me. I sometimes remember that she is Wayward and that it is all about HER. Thanx for keeping me growing, Still.
I think she is trying to guilt me into going to her place for Easter dinner. I have the firm boundary of the fact that I will not be around her POSOM.
GOOD FOR YOU !!!!!!
"Mom, I will not celebrate the resurrection of Jesus with your adultery partner. I don't think that is what Jesus had in mind."
In easter egg color purple too Pep,(you know the color kids allways end up making the eggs when they dipp em too much?) You just redefined what it means to find an "Easter Egg" on the Net..
Argh. Something to get the IM's to tell WH tomorrow after I find out the full consequences of DS9's actions. A friend of mine received a phone call this afternoon from the school principal. Her son was involved in inappropriate behaviour at school yesterday. My son was a "witness". Her son is going to be suspended for it. We discuss and she asks me to ask DS9 what truly happened. I ask DS9 and he states that another friend did it first and then this friend. I ask if he did it too. He says, "No." I have a "feeling" it is wrong. I was right. He was also involved. Now DS9 admits it and may be suspended as well. The joys of parenthood. I explained to DS9 that we all make mistakes and it is important that we learn from them and grow from them so we don't repeat them. I also tell him that the second mistake he made was lying to me and his teacher about it. We will be going to the principal's office in the morning for a full confession and apology. Then an apology letter will be written to the teacher for the deception. I also explained that it is important for me to know the WHOLE truth so we can deal with it the correct way. I told DS9 that sometimes I am going to have to let him fall, as will be the case tomorrow when I fully expect him to be suspended as well. Argh. The joys of parenthood.
I know you're upset about this, but you are doing the right thing. We, as parents, WANT to shield our children from unpleasantness and don't want them to suffer at all, but they have to learn that when they choose to do something wrong, they can't expect parents to get them out of the consequences.
Thanx LC. It's always good to hear it. It's times like this I get REALLY ANGRY with WH for leaving me to deal with this on my own and with no support from their FATHER. Then I think that he is actually missing out. I get to experience them everyday. I get to watch them grow and I get to make choices that will guide them in their lives. I am sick inside thinking about how my DS9 feels. How he is going to have this weigh heavily on his mind. That this will be on his permanent record. He just received the principal's letter for effort for term 2 on FRIDAY and then this happens. Kids are WONDERFUL. Stick time for Plan A (for my kids)for sure.
Thanx LC. It's always good to hear it. It's times like this I get REALLY ANGRY with WH for leaving me to deal with this on my own and with no support from their FATHER. Then I think that he is actually missing out. I get to experience them everyday. I get to watch them grow and I get to make choices that will guide them in their lives. I am sick inside thinking about how my DS9 feels. How he is going to have this weigh heavily on his mind. That this will be on his permanent record. He just received the principal's letter for effort for term 2 on FRIDAY and then this happens. Kids are WONDERFUL. Stick time for Plan A (for my kids)for sure.
I see 'acting out' all over this. Poor kid. Stupid father. ((Scotland)))
Then again, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.
When your kids grow up to be decent and upstanding adults, you will not only be proud, but also know that it's the direct result of so much of YOUR efforts.
Scotty - something my own son went through a few years ago - age 13 so a little older than your boy
My son was getting bullied in school from the time he entered public school in first grade (we had him in private school for K) until summer between 7th and 8th grade. We thought he'd been doing better; we'd given him some experiences that he seemed to be doing well with peer group interactions.
Then I got a call from the principal that he was being suspended. Evidently he'd threatened a boy in his class - and we'd need him evaluated by a psychologist before we could bring him back to school.
After hearing the whole story, I calmly went with him to the psychologist - was interviewed with my son (they wanted to gauge the home environment too, so it served their purposes to have me there) and then alone, then my son was interviewed. They determined that my son could go back to school.
I don't know if his record still shows that suspension or not. It doesn't matter. He's an honors student who shows no sign of any kind of blemish or penalty. He's representing the state in a national business competition just before he graduates; he was honored in a ceremony tonight along with less than 200 other students as the top students in our entire state for academic and specific study achievements (that nomination came from his school four months ago so if there's any blemish, they surely didn't let it stop them from putting him on their top student list - he was only one of three from his high school of 500 seniors to participate); he has a two year scholarship waiting for him at the college of his choice; he's being vetted by several top businessmen who met him at a business conference earlier this year, and mentored on a business start up.
This young man has no problems that he can't beat. Including the chemistry assignment that has us both up this late doing (he's not willing to let that honors track record slide, although sleep sounds so wonderful right now.... - I'm staying up to support him in whatever he has to do).
So big picture - this could be a little blip on his life's radar - and it could be a turning point to not follow the crowd and choose better friends.
You're a good mom and can turn this into a positive! I know you can!
KA- Thank you for sharing. I know that my DS9 will have this on his permanent record. That is how they do it here. I also know that it is something that he can overcome. I wanted to make sure that he understood the severity of his actions and that his lying was not acceptable. Will he lie to me again? YEPPERS. Will he feel bad about doing it? I hope so. I am trying to make this a moment that he will REMEMBER FOREVER so as to mold him into a FINE YOUNG MAN. I wanted to make sure that my reactions to this incident set the bar HIGH. I know he can come back from this, but I also know that this can be the beginning of a different life for him.
There was also a little bit of me that wanted someone else to learn from this. Who? A WS who would tell their BS spouse that their actions wouldn't affect the kids. Let them know that they don't live in a bubble and their actions DO affect others. I wish I could see the effect on my WH, but alas the marvelous Dark Plan B shield is protecting me. I am not sad about that because it protects me from so much more pain.
I am REALLY Glad that I decided to do my Opertaion:Olive Branch Part Deux at the beginning of next month, this Saturday would have been too difficult after this incident.
Like any good parent, you have to give them enough rope to hang themselves and then cut them down. He is a boy and they allways have trouble with the rules it seems until they get burned.
Many times I would be the parent to go to the schools to speak to the teachers about my kids. There were lessons learned about life and how to deal with what is fair and also how to deal with what is not.
When my daughter was in middle school and at the time that my wife was not relapsed she was the type to speak her mind and many children looked to her for advice. Our family was stable and she did not know how to keep her opinion to herself and sometimes would be drawn into disputes that she thought were childish,(and they were mostly).
One time a young girl who was known for getting into trouble shoved my daughter during an altercation with the other students that my daughter got drawn into. At that time there was a new policy of "No tolerance" being introduced into the school system and it required that a meeting be held and an official judgement be given that could bring legal consequences to the students.
I went to the hearing because my wife asked me to and although my daughter was shoved first it was decided by the "er..Judge?" that she caused the problem because she would not back down. My daughter broke into tears. She was drawn into the dispute and all she had done was express her opinion. when others came to her. She truly thought that she was helping the other girl and in the past that same girl was someone she had be-friended even though she had problems. My daughter relized that the girl had problems at home and was allways one to try to help.
Well the backstory was that this girl had been to juvinile hall and was going back if she was found guilty. Her mother was present and had the obviuos attitude that her daughter could do no wrong. You could see it that she did not want her daughter to suffer consequences. She was a single Mom also and because my daughter knew how unstable the girls homelife was we also knew that the Dad was a total crumb. I on the other hand knew my daughters propensity to get involved with people and voice her opinion felt it was time for her to see that she was a kid and her job was to learn, not save the world. So after it was established that my daughter was drawn in and was only sticking up for herself and that she did not get physical first, I had to listen to the decision as my daughter was let off with a warning.
Afterwards I explained to my daughter that it was obviuos the "judge" ,(not a real one), was afraid for this girl and having to be the one to send her to juvinle hall would have been hard for him. Also being in touch with the situation beyond even what she knew about the girl it was possible that this other girl whom was,"crazy", sometimes as my daughter put it the "judge" might have determined that the girl would be better off continueing to live at home and the family to keep attending the court ordered counseling. So my daughter took the hit for this girl because she opened her mouth instaed of letting the proper authoritys handle it. I supported her thoughts and her intentions but it was important to me that she learn that you cannot help those who do not want it and that you can get yourself in a lot of trouble trying to. The system is not allways fair and the truth is not allways represented. Those in authority are not allways qualified,(the other girls parents), and if you are going to extend help to others you might get bitten. You sometimes pay an unfair price for your convictions.
She is 25 now and still has her convictions and is a sound girl that others look to but she lets the authority handle people who are sick and knows that life is not allways fair as people people tend to spin stuff to thier benifet. It was a hard lesson for her to learn but I believe I helped her see how far to get into someones life when they don't want to listen anyways, or when they have problems that go beyond our ability to change.
Thanx Neak. It sucked that DS9 got suspended for 2 days, but he apologized to his teacher for lying in a letter and in person, and then fessed up to the principal. The teacher thanked me for having him apologize.
Neak, when I saw what you wrote about yourself, it reminded me of a saying my grade 6 teacher had. He said, "I made a mistake once. I thought I was WRONG." I have always remembered that and I thought it was hilarious.
Well, I can't always only tell you guys about the bad stuff. No expectations. No grabbing at straws. I am just putting it out there because it is part of my story. Today, I emailed IM's(they have email back so it is WONDERFUL) about the sitch with DS9
Originally Posted by Scotty-Ims
IM, Please inform WH that DS9 has been suspended from school for 2 days for XXXXX afterschool. If he any questions he can call PRINCIPAL. Thanx Scotty
IMs respond with
Originally Posted by IM-Scotty
Scotty, WH would like to know what the punishment for DS9 is so he can adhere to it this weekend. IM
I responded with
Originally Posted by Scotty-Ims
You can tell WH that DS9 has been grounded from Games, TV and DS for 2 weeks.
WH already called and talked to DS9 about it. DS9 already told him the punishment he received but I wanted to make it "official."
Not looking for anything in response. I will say I am surprised though. He actually did SOMETHING in a positive way.
Plans for Easter are my sister's house with Sis, Sis bf, Sis DDx2, DSx2, Dad, and Mom(maybe Bro). No guilt strings being pulled.
My sister told me today that my Mom said that she was worried about me and that I am not doing well. HUH? I am fine. I think it's because of the way I said, "Mom I have enough of my own crap to deal. I don't have the energy to deal with yours too." Was that a weakness on my part? Nope. Everyone is just so used to leaning on me. I needed to tell them, no leaning on me for a bit. That was for ME.
Scot- Sorry to hear about DS9's recent poor decision. FWIW I think you handled the whole thing admirably. You seem to have the ability to intuitively deal with tough situations the right way. Thanks for showing some of us what 'right' looks like.
And what a treat to read a textbookically ideal IM exchange! That was great!!
(You probably realize this already, but just in case...for run-of-the-mill naughties, I would recommend you impose your own consequences at your home, and WH imposes his own at the barf shack, with no need to coordinate. However, for a more serious item such as this, I think the cooperation was a good move.)
I agree with you Neak. I actually had thought that I wouldn't tell WH at all. This sitch was a lot MORE serious than the run of the mill dealings day to day. It also made me a little uncomfortable. I was wondering if this would give him a "family fix" where he felt like he was part of the decision making. Or maybe that he was checking to make sure that I handled it correctly and it fit.
I let it go though and focused on just doing what I thought was right. I also was SHOCKED that he used the IMs. Just a little WIN in my column for him following the "rules" this time.
I am proud of you, too, Scotty! You are an awesome mom!
"I keep remembering that it is the parent who will stick by you through anything and still stand for the truth that makes you strong.." I TOTALLY AGREE!
he apologized to his teacher for lying in a letter and in person, and then fessed up to the principal. The teacher thanked me for having him apologize.
I had read that before, Pep. I am hoping that it will resonate with DS9. I think it is something the teacher will remember fo shore.
The moments when I know I am being a great mom is when the words, "I hate you MAMA. You are HORRIBLE." I say, "Thank you DS7. I love you." The best compliment a parent can get from a child is that they hate them HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I am sad to say, I am in "Parent Plan B" with our son. He hates me. I hate what he's doing. And, so it goes.
I wish I could tell you it gets easier. I wish I could tell myself the same thing!
One of the GREAT things about this forum, is that (this was said on Larry's thread) when we post to others, we also listen to our own advice and are forced to do as we say.
Actually, I am in a lot of pain. Plan B sucks. Rebellious adult children suck worse than Plan B sucks.
But, this boundary (plan B) is also a relief in many ways. My H is a sort of IM. He will "take the call" and test to see if there has been any progress made. So far, stubborn self-willed disrespect has escalated, not diminished. He's headed down, not up.
I have mentioned that, hey WAIT, I think that was ME.
Originally Posted by Scotland
I have even had moments where I would post something to someone and realize that I could be using that same advice myself. Sometimes it is easier to look at someone else's sitch and see what they need to do rather than look at yourself. Be brave.
I read about your Plan B with your son. I know it just gets harder. That's why I am trying to do the best I can now to set the foundation. Just like the foundation of M, I want these bricks to be STRONG. That's the only way to get through in the end.
The mistakes that children make when they are young are a chance for them to learn what not to do when they get older and how to correct their wrongs. I am not always the best example, but I do my best.
(((((PEPPERBAND)))))
I wish I could climb through the computer and give him a V-8 Moment for you. It has got to be hard to just watch them fall and not be able to do anything about it. It must HURT something AWFUL. Hang tough. I am sure somewhere deep down, he knows you are doing what is best for him.
Hey Not. I have said it before and I will say it again, "t/j away" It is all about life not just MB. Sometimes I find the things I learn to do to deal with my children are also applicable to a healthy happy M. Boggles the mind.
Not to take away from the parent talk, but I just wanted to post something to my thread that Reading wrote on the art of war thread, as an answer to a question about how the art of war applies in Plan B. I thought it was GREAT.
Originally Posted by reading
So many parts apply to Plan B
Just one of many is
Prepare the Field
1. Affect the conditions of marale that favor your success 2. Secure a position of invulnerablity 3. Assemble the means, the skills, and the authroity to succeed 4. Deply and secure the elements of mystery 5. Deply the means to obtain and use foreknowledge 6. Monitor the situation for changes in the opportunity or threat
5 and 6 basically mean being prepared if the other side ever agrees to the conditions of surrender.....you are prepared to transition to recovery OR if they never agree to the conditions...you prepare for your own, more amazing oppurtunities in life!
I had the meanest mother in the whole world. While other kids ate candy for breakfast, I had to have cereal, eggs or toast. When others had cokes and candy for lunch, I had to eat a sandwich. As you can guess, my supper was different than the other kids' also. But at least, I wasn't alone in my sufferings. My sister and two brothers had the same mean mother as I did. My mother insisted upon knowing where we were at all times. You'd think we were on a chain gang. She had to know who our friends were and where we were going. She insisted if we said we'd be gone an hour, that we be gone one hour or less--not one hour and one minute. I am nearly ashamed to admit it, but she actually struck us. Not once, but each time we had a mind of our own and did as we pleased. That poor belt was used more on our seats than it was to hold up Daddy's pants. Can you imagine someone actualy hitting a child just because he disobeyed? Now you can begin to see how mean she really was. We had to wear clean clothes and take a bath. The other kids always wore their clothes for days. We reached the height of insults because she made our clothes herself, just to save money. Why, oh why, did we have to have a mother who made us feel different from our friends? The worst is yet to come. We had to be in bed by nine each night and up at eight the next morning. We couldn't sleep till noon like our friends. So while they slept-my mother actually had the nerve to break the child-labor law. She made us work. We had to wash dishes, make beds, learn to cook and all sorts of cruel things. I believe she laid awake at night thinking up mean things to do to us. She always insisted upon us telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even if it killed us- and it nearly did. By the time we were teen-agers, she was much wiser, and our life became even more unbearable. None of this tooting the horn of a car for us to come running. She embarrassed us to no end by making our dates and friends come to the door to get us. If I spent the night with a girlfriend, can you imagine she checked on me to see if I were really there. I never had the chance to elope to Mexico. That is if I'd had a boyfriend to elope with. I forgot to mention, while my friends were dating at the mature age of 12 and 13, my old fashioned mother refused to let me date until the age of 15 and 16. Fifteen, that is, if you dated only to go to a school function. And that was maybe twice a year.
Through the years, things didn't improve a bit. We could not lie in bed, "sick" like our friends did, and miss school. If our friends had a toe ache, a hang nail or serious ailment, they could stay home from school. Our marks in school had to be up to par. Our friends' report cards had beautiful colors on them, black for passing, red for failing. My mother being as different as she was, would settle for nothing less than ugly black marks. As the years rolled by, first one and then the other of us was put to shame. We were graduated from high school. With our mother behind us, talking, hitting and demanding respect, none of us was allowed the pleasure of being a drop-out. My mother was a complete failure as a mother. Out of four children, a couple of us attained some higher education. None of us have ever been arrested, divorced or beaten his mate. Each of my brothers served his time in the service of this country. And whom do we have to blame for the terrible way we turned out? You're right, our mean mother. Look at the things we missed. We never got to march in a protest parade, nor to take part in a riot, burn draft cards, and a million and one other things that our friends did. She forced us to grow up into God-fearing, educated, honest adults. Using this as a background, I am trying to raise my three children. I stand a little taller and I am filled with pride when my children call me mean. Because, you see, I thank God, He gave me the meanest mother in the whole world.
written by Bobbie Pingaro (1967)
I read somewhere that your chilren can forgive you of anything exept witholding discipline.
Once your kids become adults they think they can look at you and defy you because they at that point have seen our mistakes. Its tough because what we want for them is to avoid the damage that the world can deal out to them instead of learning the hard way, as maybe we did.
My wife had a hard life as a child, Our children did not. My wife, before she started having seriuos emotional issues again was so very proud that she was not like her Mom and that she worked so hard to provide our kids a life that she did not have. She got all of her idenity and self-worth from that. When the children came to her and questioned authority or her she was hurt very much. I explained to her this..
"Wife, we have given the children a better life than we had, be confident in that. Do you really want them to understand how lucky they are by experiancing what you went thru? What you are seeing in them is not dis-respect for you but the result of having children who do not live in terror. I assure you God will not leave thier side and they have the right to test and see if he is real, he asks them to. Its part of the process of growing up and finding out that we are accountable for our thoughts which drive our actions."
My wife and daughter loved that poem that I quoted along with that one out there called "So you want to date my daughter?",(its on the net somewhere.)
I am not telling you anything that you don't allready know Pep. Just reassurance from someone who respects you a great deal through reading your posts. Your son will have to come to the end of himself, IYKWIM, and God will not abandon him. You just stay you cuz yer awesome.
I have to share my story of having to face my victim. I was probably about 5 or 6. We were in a local department store, and I wanted a package of gum in the checkout line. My dad said "no." He wasn't looking at me while he was paying for his purchases, so I decided that I wanted the gum anyway and took it. In the car, I put a piece in my mouth and, of course, Daddy wanted to know where I got it. When I told him the truth (because it never occurred to me to lie to him), he parked the car and marched me back in to the store. I had to go up to the cashier and tell her what I had done. Daddy then paid for the gum and we left. He also took the gum and threw it away so I could not have it. That was awful for me and I have never forgotten it, even though I was really little.
My father was a staff sargent (and a drill sargent) in the Marine Corps and my mother was a private first class. That's where they met. I grew up with very strict rules, had to do chores and I remember the very few punishments I had (I was spanked about 5 times in my life). Despite having what many would consider "mean" parents, I never saw them as anything but caring and loving parents. I always knew that I had rules because they loved me. I could talk to them about anything (and I do mean anything). My friends, some of whom had much more lenient parents than I did, wished their parents were like mine. The worst thing that could have happened to me would have been to disappoint my parents. I am trying very hard to give my DDs the SAME upbringing I had. So far, so good - despite my WH.
Do my kids have more than I had growing up? Yes and no. They have a much bigger house and do way more than I did as a kid. But they also have chores, are expected to get good grades, and are to respectful and kind to everyone they meet. Unfortunately, they got stuck with a walk-a-way father. That's the one place where they are lacking and I was rich. Mine died when I was almost 12, but I never doubted for a second how much he loved me. Mine will be forced to grow up and always wonder. Even if WH fixes it, I think my DDs will always have doubt in their minds and I feel helpless to fix it.
My family called me the drill sargent lol. The differance between me and my Dad was that I allways listened to them and taught them why there were rules as well as enforced them.
Growing up with my Dad was hard as a little kid and untill I was 17 I really thought I was worthless POS. He was a hard worker and taught me that and of course when he never talked to me or wanted to it made me insecure as heck. Something that I missed in my relationship with him but I eventually felt sorry for his loss as I realized his paranoia and self-image issues were his choice. Thank God I had my Mom or I would have went down some bad roads I am sure.
Still all my life his approval was an important goal I sought and desired. I even thought that if I could only make him happy I could get him and Mom back together, that somehow I could show him.(That was when they first divorced and I was 18). My dad knew nothing about forgiveness or ppls,childrens, capacity because he didn't want to learn, he just wanted his own way and walked on others to get there. He never had any close friends and trusted nobody and now is in the late stages of altziemers and now its too late to do anything but hold his hand in the nursing home.
My Mom allways had friends and worked till retirement and is 82 and still goes out dancing and is sharp as a tack. She did not have a picnic as a child as she brought up her siblings when her mom died when she was 16. My Dad was a hard worker but in his case I don't think he ever liked to serve others, more like he was jealous of everyone and bitter.
So what was the differance? I know my Mom was social and belived in God and my Dad thought it was for pansys. I will never know why Dad was the way he was, I honor him for what he had that was good about him and feel still that I wish I could have helped him but the discipline that I get from life and the image of God is what I depend upon and have for a long time now. I pray your children will not internalize the rejection from a father who has let his cheese slip off his cracker.
Well, I am home from my sister's and Easter Part 1. Part 2 will be on Monday. Some interesting developments on the Mom and Dad front. I will have to tell you all about that tomorrow night though. I did want to post something about my kiddos.
DS9 is grounded so he kept complaining that he wasn't having fun. No TV, no DS and no computer at my sister's he had nothing to do. He started playing with my niece's Hannah Montana doll. He was playing with my DN7, when he said, "I can't, that's cheating and I am married." My sister heard that and so did my Mom. My BIL left my sister for his AP and moved to Vancouver for 6 months but now he is back and in a new relationship and my sister and BIL are divorced.
I just wanted to write that down while I still remembered it. Lesson learned.
...DS9 is grounded so he kept complaining that he wasn't having fun. No TV, no DS and no computer at my sister's he had nothing to do. He started playing with my niece's Hannah Montana doll. ..
Lol Sorry Scottie, I guess he was desparete to do anything but just sit there and think how dumb he was for getting grounded. I just pictured it in my head and it made me think of when I was little and got in trouble.
As far as his comment heard by all, "out of the mouths of babes" huh?
I woke up this morning and I was thinking about how I was going to help some newbies(Tink, anne, annabelle, chris, darkamy) today. I was thinking about their sitch and how I had been there and what had gotten me to where I am today. That made me ask the question, "Where would I be,TODAY, without MB?" The answer to that question is, "full of doubts, ANGRY and lost." That made me think about how we are told to be the lighthouse for our spouse. I think of it more like MB is the lighthouse and we are the lighthouse keeper. We make sure that our WS can see the light through the storm. When I was lost, I found MB and I often say that it is like a GIANT light shone on me. That is exactly what I feel like. I think I may start a new thread and pose the question to the forum, "Where would you be if you hadn't found MB?"
Thanx for reading the ramblings of a crazy lady. HEHEHEHEHE
I woke up this morning and I was thinking about how I was going to help some newbies(Tink, anne, annabelle, chris, darkamy) today. I was thinking about their sitch and how I had been there and what had gotten me to where I am today. That made me ask the question, "Where would I be,TODAY, without MB?" The answer to that question is, "full of doubts, ANGRY and lost." That made me think about how we are told to be the lighthouse for our spouse. I think of it more like MB is the lighthouse and we are the lighthouse keeper. We make sure that our WS can see the light through the storm. When I was lost, I found MB and I often say that it is like a GIANT light shone on me. That is exactly what I feel like. I think I may start a new thread and pose the question to the forum, "Where would you be if you hadn't found MB?"
Thanx for reading the ramblings of a crazy lady. HEHEHEHEHE
Thank you for thinking of me... I think that's why I came to MB, cause I needed guidance that I couldn't get anywhere else... I needed a lighthouse to lead me to the shore in these dark times... I read others situations and I want to cry because they sound so similar to mine... A's aren't really that different anywhere, are they? :-/ I just wanted to say I have appreciated all you have done for me thus far...
rambling??? Who rambles... That drives me crazy...
LOL If you read my stuff you know I am the king of it.
My first MIL was an awesome lady, When I asked her about how much I talked she said, "You remind me of a guy I knew that when you asked him what time is was, would start by telling you who invented the clock." I was 18. Whenever I get stressed I still talk alot. I am still learning that "less is more" and how that "A word in season" is sometimes better.
Communicating our thoughts to others can help us to validate or dismiss the ones that trouble us. Some thoughts are lies we have perpetuated upon us or we build up in our heads that need to be kicked out of our mindset. So if we bring them out into the open they get exposed for what is real in them and what is not. To many of us are afraid to communicate because they think they are not worthy to be heard. There is a time and place for the healing communication with those who have a heart for others..
For me right now its MB, counsellors and time remembering the good things that God has given me that help me heal. Our relationships with others are the most valuable posessions we have and we all need support.
Okay, first, a little rant and a thank goodness. DSx2 let me know that POSOW was in the car to come and pick them up. She hasn't been since DS9 told WH it bothered him. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH DARN WAYTURDS. I am thankful though that I decided to NOT do Operation:Olive Branch part deux today because that would have been really BAD. ARGHHHHHHHHHH rant OVER.
So last night, I was at my sister's for Easter part 1. My mom was doing the dishes when she said, "Scotty, would you be mad if I went home?" I thought she meant she would leave me there and I would have to get someone else to take me home so I said, "I am sure scotty's sis would give us a ride." She said, "what?" and I asked, "When you leave." She said, "No would you be mad if I moved back in with your father?" I said, "No, Why would I be? You are an adult and you have to make your own choices."
We talked a bit more about why she would leave POSOM. She said he isn't nice and that he says some horrible things to her. She feels guilty about what she did to my dad. She sometimes says some pretty crazy wayturd things. On the way home, she asked me what I was thinking about. I was talking to her about what she is doing and how I know more about what she is doing than she does and that sometimes I just have to treat her with kid gloves. She asked me what I meant. I told her that she is having an affair and that makes me very upset. That she isn't always herself and it drives me CRAZY. She said, "It is still considered an affair even though I didn't sleep with POSOM until after I moved out?" I said, "are you still married? Then YES." After that she got really quiet. As we were pulling up to my house I told her that although Dad doesn't want to come on here that I think that she should. Not to post, because I don't think she could handle that yet. I think I am going to let her borrow SAA and see what she thinks.
Oh on a happier note. My mom told me that POSOM said, "I guess I can't go today since Scotty will be there and she doesn't want me around." My Mom said, "Yep." Good. At least he gets it.
Remember Scotty not to get too wrapped up in affairland emotionally. You have enough to handle as it is.
Besides that I think you are the lighthouse for all of them. Your Mom sounds like she is searching for some answers and I hope she reads these forums as you have suggested. You stay strong. By the way how did you get that strong? You seem to be the only one in your family who sought help. Or do we just say that you were the lucky one to find this site?
Now I hope you can stand up and walk with your head so swollen...Just kidding.
Thanx SSO. I really don't know how I am the way I am. I have always been told I am an old soul and I kind of believe it. I definitely believe that I am the lucky one for finding this site. I am a forever optimist with a touch of realist thrown in.
I don't always feel so strong and don't worry about the big head(they make hats to fit now HA), I don't take it all to heart, I am perfectly capable of seeing my own limitations and I am never afraid to ask for help.
She said, "It is still considered an affair even though I didn't sleep with POSOM until after I moved out?" I said, "are you still married? Then YES." After that she got really quiet. As we were pulling up to my house I told her that although Dad doesn't want to come on here that I think that she should. Not to post, because I don't think she could handle that yet. I think I am going to let her borrow SAA and see what she thinks.
Amazing, truly amazing conversation. God does work in mysterious ways. Sometimes (often) we can't see "His ways" until much, much later.
YES Larry Dad definitely wants her back. He has been telling her that since she left. I told him to lay off of the talk about her coming home and just show her that he is willing to change. He has been doing that. She says now that she never knew that he loved her. I think of my Dad as doing a sort of Plan A for the past 19 months. It is emotionally draining for him and I know that he wants her to just come home.
A week ago, he had a girl over at his house when my Mom walked in. I think he was doing it to "shock and awe" but I haven't asked him about that yet.
I am not capable of giving them clear advice, so I just try to do my best and direct them here. It helps me see how I wouldn't want to handle my sitch, but I still hold out hope for them.
It should be interesting tomorrow night for Easter part 2 at my sister's when we are all together again.
At some point, no matter how angry or upset or far from home your kids get, it seems like they find their way home.
Mine did.
She wrote this to me in a card, after a very rough time:
Mom, thanks for always being the parent you needed to be, even when I wasn't always the kid I should have been. You taught me to think for myself, and that made me make huge mistakes. I learned, though - I learned the difference between want and need, and how most of the time what I want is not what I need, or even what I should do.
Thanks for being the kind of parent who taught me not to blindly follow what other people say, but to always question.
And thanks, for making me the kind of person who can figure out where I went wrong. Like now.
I'm sorry. I love you, and I'm thankful that I have parents like you and Dad in my life.
There was a quote from Kahlil Gibran in it as well, and because she's an artist, she drew the cover art on the card. I carry a copy with me because the letter is important - a reminder of something I've done right. Even when I thought I went wrong, even when I thought I was seeing the last of her, even when I wanted to crack and call her, I did the right thing.
She knew what was right - because I had already taught her what was right and wrong.
She had to come to it on her own, or she would not have learned it, or owned it, or been able to proudly speak of this lesson in her life.
Our relationship would never have been what it is today if she hadn't.
As hard as it is, Pep, you hang in there. I stood lovingly distant, almost dying inside. In the end, she came home.
I called her on it too. I said, "Well Mom, you must have known he loved you at some point. I mean, you DID marry him." She agreed with that and said that it was only the last 5 years. History rewrite in reverse. Does that happen? Is that what happens as the fog starts to clear? I also told her that she was in a fantasy bubble when she first started having feelings for her "thing"(that's my nickname for POSOM). I told her that little holes have been appearing in that bubble and that's why she can see things differently now. POSOM has also found out that my Mom is still talking to my Dad(my brother told him while he was arguing with my Mom). He has now turned on the "charm" and is saying things like, "You are going back to him aren't you?" I really don't know what to say to her. I don't have the necessary tools to help but what little I do have, I offer.
Thanx SSO. I really don't know how I am the way I am. I have always been told I am an old soul and I kind of believe it. I definitely believe that I am the lucky one for finding this site. I am a forever optimist with a touch of realist thrown in.
Like keeping your feet on the ground and reach for the stars? I allways thought that was the balance I wanted in my life. Or did I hear it from Casey Casem?
I don't always feel so strong and don't worry about the big head(they make hats to fit now HA), I don't take it all to heart, I am perfectly capable of seeing my own limitations and I am never afraid to ask for help.
Ah Scotty this has been a place of growth for you and an opportunity for you to step into life at a level you probably would not have if WH did not fall victem to his own ego. I don't know when he and you stopped dreaming together or why he fell into a place of complacency with the marriage but you know two things now. It doesn't have to be that way and.. You have access to people and tools to change it..
His [censored] move down the rosd that so many ppl go..(The statistics about affairs in marriages?), is an opportunity for change, not despair. By you not giving in and your humility of trust in the good ppl on this site you have seen past the emotional fog that the rest of your "affiarland" family has boughten into. You believed in integrity when you could have taken revenge in selfishness because you have a womens and mothers heart of mercy and forgiveness.
"Mercy is the mothers heart of God". Ever wonder about how God used women in the most important spiritual times in the Bible? Mary carried Christ till birth? Mary Magdalene saw him reserected first? There are so many more and I am not a scholar but I remembered that when I heard it spoken of. The preacher was talking about how absurd it was if Men thought that when they were taught to be the spiritual leaders that it meant women were not just as important. IMO men need to see Gods authority more because they are less likely to understand how important relationships are. Only thru humility and obedience can we have true authority and lead, and he was telling men to open thier eyes if they expected to understand anything spiritual or have any authority in such things.
Men in thier master plans and short-sighted-ness. But you Queen Scotty are looking past WHs shortcomings and when he comes to his senses he has his awesome home you have preserved for Him and his children, not because WH deserves it or was justified in his leaving, but in spite of his foolishness. Thats Gods mercy and you not willing to compromise what marriage was designed to be, a relationship that goes beyond our needs and is strong enough to see the needs of our partner and even when those partners screw up. None of us relying solely on our experiences can pull that off. We need a source higher than ourselves and morality alone, being mans concepts and institutions, falls short of mercy to free our minds to the possibilty of forgiveness and restoration.
Now you can move onto a better job that uses your talents of learning and serving others to expand your life beyond this pain you are experiencing with WH and live life to its fullest. Something that when WH comes home or not will benifet his children because thats what marriage was supposed to do for you anyways. We are supposed to be secure enough and want the best for each other as we support each other.
I just wanted to inspire you as you have others but maybe I am overstating the obvious. It just felt fitting on Easter day to make reference to, although I am not qualified, to Gods hand in our lives. I truly hope that God crushes your WHs fantasy based on lies he has believed and the deceptions he is under and brings him home soon to the gift he allready had from God which is you.
SSO-thanx for that. Heavy reading for a holiday. HAHAHAHAHA
Don't worry about the jelly beans, I didn't buy any this year. HEHEHEHE.
No kiddos today, they are visiting with WH and POSOW. DS9 found out that I didn't have to work so he said that meant that WH could bring them home early. I told him that was okay, he got to spend the whole day with WH. Geez, it is funny how they want to spend MORE time with me. It makes me feel GOOD. That tells me I am doing the best and they know it.
Yeah I need to lighten up more.. lol. As time goes by I am becoming less stressed and gaining more objectivity the farther away I get from the drama. Thank God.
Yeah the boys know where they are loved and trust in you because you trust the rules.. We all need rules, especially little boys..rofl
Well, I have to say that there was a little tiny trigger when DSx2 came home. DS7 smelt like WH. It was the perfume evil genius in reverse(because it was used on ME). I know it wasn't intentional but I can tell you that it IS effective. I had to hold back from asking DS7 to take a shower and throw his clothes in the washer. WOW. It gave me butterflies in my stomach. I got mad at myself for it. Stinking wayturds(all PUN intended).
Scot, The sense of smell (olfactory) is one of the most primitive & powerful systems in our brain. The part of the brain that interprets smell is literally right next to the limbic system which has allowed us to survive and thrive as humans. (sorry if you're a creationist). It's why you remember the smell of grandma's furniture and the smell of cinnamon can make you think of your first kiss. Anyway, don't be mad at yourself; I know it might not go along with Plan B, but there is NO escaping the sense of smell.
Thanx OPT- I did already know that. It was actually suggested on this thread by some of the "Evil Genius Crew" that I hug the boys to get my scent on them. I have to say, I actually did it to a bit of an extreme. I actually spray my perfume on the backs of their coats.
I was only a little mad at myself so I could get over it or I would have wanted to take DS7's shirt and smell it. I mean it has been 3.5 months since WH lived here and his scent is NOWHERE. That's why I was mad. Even typing this made me cry(not your fault )
I have an uncanny sense of smell. I would drive everyone crazy because they couldn't smell stuff I could.
I wonder how I can bend that fact to my advantage...LOL J/K...
Interesting about where it is located in the brain isn't it? I wondered why our sense of smell goes away when we are asleep and maybe its cuz smell has a lot to do with our conciuos thought processes.
Well if you have some idea of how I can put my sense of smell on a resume let me know scotty k?
Any of us creationists still believe that the olfactory sense is powerful and necessary, etc., and that that's just the way God made us.
Either the cologne was on purpose or it wasn't, but if it was, he has no way of finding out if it worked, heh heh heh. (Though sending them over reeking of you the next time might give him a clue - so don't yet. )
Actually,he doesn't wear cologne. I saw him hugging them and he paid special attention to hugging DS7(prob because the kid doesn't always like to give hugs).
It just sucked when I realized that DS7 smelt like WH. And you are right, he doesn't know it affected me.
Smells can take my mind to a place and I have no control of it Scotty. I understand. Its a sobering sensation to say the least and it takes some adjustment time.
I misunderstood the original post about this. I thought that POSOW put her perfume on the boys and you smelled that. Now I understand better.
So what is happening in the puppy dept? Puppy breath allways makes me happy. The smell of thier fur too.
Did you look into any jobs yet? Have you ever heard of the tests that help you by asking about your personality like Strongs Cambell? Here is a wikipedia link to get you started.
These tests ask you questions and they try to line up your personality with other people who have carreers and have a lot of the same traits. LIke, for example if you like donuts then you would be a cop. LOL no its not that dumb. Check it out, maybe you can be an astronaut.
Thanx, I am going to check it out. I did some career building tests online. I am applying for any jobs that are within the times and days that I want. I am figuring out babysitting if I need it.
The puppy sitch is coming along slowly. My Dad always says that a dog picks you. We will get one when it happens.
I'm trying to wear my H down to let me have another little house dog. His biggest complaint before was all the hair that my Cocker Spaniels shed. Yes, chasing hair balls did get tiresome, but I loved my dogs dearly and still miss and grieve for them.
I did want a Wheaten Terrier, because they don't shed, but YIKES! They are EXPENSIVE! I then decided that I might as well go for the shih tzu, because they don't shed either. However, the smushed up nose thing turns me off...and they are more inclined to have breathing problems, from what I understand.
However, yesterday, I met the most charming lil' miniature snauzer and fell in love. If I coulda dognapped him, I would have!
It wouldn't have worked out, though, because I have a slightly agressive outdoor dog who would NOT like another male dog here. So, I will have to get a female and have her spayed.
Our sweetheart border collie died almost four months ago. She was almost 15 years old.
15 years ago, Kasey and I were staying at his parents while I worked for them; we went for a walk that morning and about three blocks into the walk, I looked down to check my shoelaces and there's this 8 week old puppy bouncing around my feet. We went to every house along the way and one block up and down each cross street; no one had lost a puppy. She was gorgeous - black with brown eyebrows and the sweetest face. She was love embodied in a dog. We put an ad on the local radio station and in the newspaper but all we got were calls from people in different parts of town telling us they'd found a stray puppy that looked just like her. The county didn't have a local shelter.
So we figured she picked us. And we kept her. She loved every kid in the neighborhood. One boy who's family was moving begged us to let him take her with him. That was a hard hard day.
Her only flaw was that she was a sheep dog and she had pickup envy. She kept trying to catch one that had a sheep in the trailer from up the street. He'd go to work with this pet ewe in that trailer and she'd try to hitch a ride every single time - and one time it caught her instead. She only slightly learned her lesson. She'd bark and run along the road from the inside of the fence after that.
If you can't tell - I really miss her! I can't bring myself to look for another dog. Because we weren't looking when we found her/she found us!
Careful, major problems sometimes. Too inbred from the wrong breeder. Had one that would get mad over anything and everything and when she did, she would pee on your shoes or dump in front of you. She had to learn to be an outdoor dog pretty quick.
...
Great story on the sheep dog. Caused me to remember the Akita that picked me. I loved that dog. Josan loved me. I could walk her without a leash, which shocked the breeder when she happened to be driving by one day. Her stomach turned when she was twelve. The vet couldn't save her. But I was allowed to sit by the cage with her head in my lap until she died.
My Dad loved the shih tzu him and his second wife had. His SIL stole it from him right after his wifes death and lets just say he was allready enough of a mess at that time.
My son walked into the house the other night with this dirty little white shih tzu he found lost on the street. It had the petwatch tag on him and we found the owner very quickly.
The dog was, can I say polite? attentive? seemed to look right into our eyes when we talked to him. He followed us around like we knew him all our lives he was so cute.
Our husky/shepard wanted to come in from outside to er.. Play with him? lol more like chew on him like he tries with the cat.
Our puppy came to us - it was odd how it all fell into place.
His mum has the same name as my niece; his grandma, the same as my daughter. The breeders son, the same as my son and now one of his sisters has the same name as my other niece.
We happened to be visiting friends just 10 miles down the road from the breeder on the day that was best for us to visit.
This pup, although the littlest (and only 2 weeks at the time) made a real point of dragging himself towards DD - she was the one that was take or leave a pup - the rest of us very very keen. So it was him that we had.
And for those of you that haven't seen a recent pic, this is him at 15 weeks Ted
Under all that fluff he is all poodle build - but has the worktop cruising/ food stealing qualities of a labrador.
And he is none shedding (so far, have to wait and see what his adult coat will be like)
I LOVED all of the puppy stories. Our dog, Skyler, was just like that. I had a dream about a dog. My bestfriend and her husband were getting a free puppy from their friend. We went with them to look while they picked one. Their friend said that all of the dogs were spoken for. We met them(they were 3 weeks old). We left happy for our friends but sad for ourselves. 3 weeks later, my bestfriend called and said that we could get one of the pups, someone had backed out. We went over and there were 13 puppies sitting in a cage. My WH bent down and put his hand in the cage. 12 puppies went away from him and one went to his hand. We picked her. Funny thing is, we went there for a male puppy. I looked at her and she looked just like the puppy I dreamt about a few weeks earlier. Her name in the dream was Skyler.
May 23, 2008, Skyler had to be put to sleep. I was a very sad day. We all missed her. A couple of months later, I had a dream about her. She was walking with another puppy. I heard the name "Saddie." The dog looked like a German Sheppard mix.
Today is an okay day. I often have to tell people that an Okay day is better than a bad one.
I was not even thinking about a house dog when my H brought Honey home to me. He had gone with his friend, who was picking out a puppy as a Christmas present for his wife. Honey was the last little male puppy left, so my H decided, on a whim, to get him for me.
He brought him home, and I was instantly hooked. He was 5 weeks old, and we bonded. He loved me and my family, but I was the ONE for him. He was incredibly smart, having come from a long line of obedience champs, and was SO easy to train and teach. He would obey my H and kids when they told him to do some of his tricks, UNLESS I was there. If I was there, he would not move, but sorta look over at me as if to say, "Well, Mom, let me know if you want me to do it!" I would then tell him to do whatever, and he would instantly perform the trick.
The only time he did not sleep beside my bed was when one of the grandkids spent the night, and he would sleep under their crib. Anytime they stirred during the night, he would come wake me up. I have a picture somewhere of DGS#3 napping on a floor pallet, with Honey lying right beside him, with his head on the pillow, too.
We got Lacey a couple of years later to keep him company. She was a year old, but so sweet and loving. She wasn't easy to train, and I suspect she had a case of canine ADHD. However, whatever Honey did, she would do, also. When I periodically put him on his leash and went through his training routine with him, she would follow right along. She was the one who would get them into "trouble"...like managing to knock the Thanksgiving turkey leftovers off the stove, or stealing a loaf of bread from the countertop.
She and Honey followed me every step I took, and they vied for the position of "footwarmer" whenever I sat at my desk. I ended up giving each one of them one of my feet to lie on. Problem solved!
I really, really miss them.
Larry, I've decided that I want a snauzer. A shih tzu is just a bit smaller dog than what I want...too easy to trip over, plus the breathing problems that I've heard about.
Sleeping under the crib, my grandfather had a dog that would do that...
He'd sleep under my father's crib. One night grandpa came home late and the dog ran up to attack him because he thought grandpa was an intruder. The only thing that saved him was his saying, LOUDLY, the dog's name.
I'm trying to wear my H down to let me have another little house dog. His biggest complaint before was all the hair that my Cocker Spaniels shed. Yes, chasing hair balls did get tiresome, but I loved my dogs dearly and still miss and grieve for them.
I did want a Wheaten Terrier, because they don't shed, but YIKES! They are EXPENSIVE! I then decided that I might as well go for the shih tzu, because they don't shed either. However, the smushed up nose thing turns me off...and they are more inclined to have breathing problems, from what I understand.
However, yesterday, I met the most charming lil' miniature snauzer and fell in love. If I coulda dognapped him, I would have!
It wouldn't have worked out, though, because I have a slightly agressive outdoor dog who would NOT like another male dog here. So, I will have to get a female and have her spayed.
I currently have a powderpuff chinese crested, i keep her hair short. They are a non-shedding dog, the powderpuffs are so cute, and they are an extremely spirited and fun dog. She is my baby!!!! And no smushed in nose.
As much as I loved my fur babies, I did NOT want to be "kissed" by them or licked on the face, cuz I know what they were probably licking not 5 minutes before!
Snauzers are fantastic dogs. My X has one. That said, if "my dog too" is in the yard when I drive by or stop, she literally screams at me to be petted. Ever heard a dog scream before? This one does. If she hears my voice on the phone, starts up the same way. she has excellent hearing.
"My dog too" misses me. And I do her. They are high maintenance dogs though, need lots of loving. They like to play baby. And some of them get really, really excited and do a bit of submissive tinkle on the shoes bit. Gotta watch 'em.
Uh oh, how did I manage to wander into Scotties thread?
Larry-Ummmmm I think you got lost or sumtin. I'm just saying. HAHAHAHA.
So, no puppy yet.
On the Mom front, I loaned her SAA and she started reading it. She looked at me and said, "I see you and WH in this." HAHAHAHA I said, "Umm, do you see yourself too?" She just kept reading. She left it at my sister's house though because she doesn't want her"thing" to know. At least she is reading it. What she does with the info is up to her.
Also, DS9 was excited to be done his suspension. He gets to go back to school tomorrow. How happy is he? Well, he keeps saying he is BORED. I keep saying, "Okay. Read." I taught him how to play Yahtzee. He loved it. Plan Aing the boys is still number 1.
If you want to trick them into reading, get them an RPG if they have a DS or even a GBA. Many good RPGs are on both and a few (Fire Emblem for example) are quite heavy in the story, and hence, in the writing!
They are high maintenance dogs though, need lots of loving. They like to play baby. And some of them get really, really excited and do a bit of submissive tinkle on the shoes bit. Gotta watch 'em.
They couldn't be any higher maintenance than my Cockers! They could not bear to be away from me. In fact, Honey actually developed skin lesions when being boarded when we went on trips. Lacey didn't get the skin lesions, even though they stayed in the same pen together. Nothing ever tested positive for anything, so the vet finally suggested that it was probably "separation anxiety". After that, he would get a tranquilizer every day that he was boarded, and that took care of the problem.
If I took a bath, he and Lacey would lie outside the bathroom door, with their paws up under the door, until I came out. They were constantly by my side, and I was glad of it.
If it wasn't for the massive hair shedding that Cockers do, I would love to have another one. My search for a non-shedding dog is out of consideration for my husband, especially since my arthritis means that I am not presently able to do much in the way of chasing dog hair around the floors.
It CAN be frustrating to spend a morning vacumning, moving furniture, dusting, and wet mopping all the floors...only to collapse in a heap on the sofa and watch as yet another hair ball rolls on by!
So, I'll be lucky if I can get my H to agree to another house dog; but, since he has to do the floors these days, I want as little shedding as possible. I can handle the accidents until I get the new puppy housebroken.
This is a synopsis of my story Pre-MB and I hope that some newbies will see something that might help them. It also helps me to see how far I have come. Wow it has been a bumpy ride. Some people may not agree with what I did, but bear in mind, I didn't know what I was doing. Now that I know better, I do better.
October/07 WH was acting a little "off." I got jealous about a female friend who found him on Facebook. She was a friend from his past. She found him. He had been acting weird so I accused him of havig an affair with her.
November 5/07 I found an email from WH to his work saying that he was not going to be going to work that day because he was sick. I found it and asked him about it. He said it was a joke. I believed him.
On November 9/07 119pm I got a phone call from WORKPLACE. I thought it was WH but it wasn't. It was a girl telling me that WH was making a fool out of me at work and that he was spending all of his time with a girl named POSOW. That he was leaving work early to be with her. All I could say in response was, "Okay." I hung up the phone and was in TOTAL shock. I called WH's cell phone until he called me back. He came home early and we were talking the whole time he was driving. He said that POSOW was just a friend and that the girl who called me was an old friend of hers that was just jealous that he was now friends with POSOW. We talked all weekend and he emailed POSOW because he wanted to warn her about what was being said. She was open and emailed me and even added me as a friend on Facebook. WH didn't want us to meet however. When I asked him about this he would respond with the fact that he wanted a friend of his own. He didn't feel like he had that. He went to work Monday, and told me what happened. Mainly that he confronted who had told and he told his HR dept. They were going to take steps to prevent this from happening in the future. What I mean by "this" is the exposing to the employee's family about an affair. There is now a confidentiality agreement which all of the employees have to sign which says that they can not discuss things that happen in their office. Well, That was the OPPOSITE of what should have happened. ARGH. Hampered my EXPOSURE efforts at their workplace. Doesn't matter because they apparently "flaunted" their affair at their workplace anyways.
Nov 9/07 to Jan 24/08. I had the "gut feeling" I would snoop and snoop and snoop. Checking phone calls etc. There was one from POSOW to WH. I then saw one from WH to POSOW. They said that they were just concerned for the other person because there was a bad snow storm and they wanted to make sure they got home okay. I was angry and called POSOW. She said that they were just friends and that he wasn't her type. She even told me what her type was so I could compare.
Jan25/08 I took the boys sledding. I had a gut feeling to check under the drivers seat of the car. I found an open box of condoms. I counted them and I thought there was only 11. I called WH and got VERY angry. WH got mad and said he was leaving. I thought he meant he was leaving ME, so I rushed home and he was there. WH said he just meant he was going to go to the store and wasn't continuing this argument. POSOW meant NOTHING and that I mean everything. He would NEVER leave me.
Mar 23/08 I got that feeling again. I decided to check the cell phone PAYG balance obsessively. I didn't understand why.
Mar 30/08 WH was going out to play pool. I asked him not to go. I told him I was feeling sick and wanted him to stay home with me. He went out. I checked the cell usage and found out that he was charged for a one minute phone call. I INSTANTLY knew where he was headed. I got BIL's gf to drive me to the pool halls he would be at. No car. Then I got her to drive me to POSOW's Apt. We pulled in the parking lot of her co-op and I saw our car. I barely let the truck stop before I was out the door. I started calling WH. This is the first time I met POSOW. WH said on HER cell phone(he wouldn't answer his so I called HERS and said, "Can I speak to my HUSBAND please?") that he was there to help her with a problem with her bf. I said, "Yea her problem with her boyfriend is that he is married to ME." Let's just say that night I was full of rage. He came home with me. We talked about it and he made me guarantees again that I was his world. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
May/08 I found out he was calling POSOW secretly. I broke the cell phone. We got new ones. He "promised" he would only talk to her at work about work things(Hey, I know this was BEFORE MB). I wasn't happy with it but what could I do? (No MelodyLane, I know NOW what I had to do, I meant then. I didn't have a clue).
Jul/08-Mar 09- I had funny feelings and WH treated me with disdain. I didn't know what to do. I tried what I could to make myself better and learn. I believed WH that I was being extremely jealous and insecure and I was actually trying to change that HAHAHAHAHA.
Mar/09- I decided to check online cell records(why oh why did I wait?) I found calls from Jul/08 until that day. I called WH and he came home. I told him I needed to talk to POSOW. I called her and left 3 messages and a facebook message saying that I needed to talk to her and she was going to make it easy on herself or I would go to WORKPLACE and confront her there. She agreed to meet me. She had a friend with her. I asked if she was afraid for her personal safety because I would NOT go to jail for HER. Then I talked to her for 1.5 hours. First she was RUDE and condescending. At one point she said, "Do you see any calls from ME to HIM? Whose fault was it then?" I said, "You answered the phone." She said, "WH loves the boys." Then she added, "Well, he loves you too I am sure." She said, "If I won the lottery, I would give you money." I said, "I don't need you money, what I need is for you to stay away from my HUSBAND." She was texting people while we were talking and I found it disrespectful If only I knew than what I know now.
Mar 13/09 I go away for a night to figure out what I wanted in life. I intended on sleeping in my car. I drove around crying, yelling and writing. I realized that I didn't need my WH. I found my STRENGTH. My WH called me 20 times and then my cell phone was dying. He begged me to come home. I did. We talked and I told him that he could not be friends with her anymore. He had to move his seat and not speak to her every again. He agreed. That lasted 3 days.(I found out in May/09)
May/09 I found out that WH was still talking to POSOW outside of work. My Mom saw him walking with her. I confronted and he said, "Yes I am still friends with her and I don't plan on stopping."
Aug 4-6/09 we went to a friend's cottage for a family reunion(IM'sFamily). WH acted withdrawn. Sometimes he was normal, and then he was cruel. We witnessed the IM's older son flirting with someone who was NOT his wife. WH said he felt uncomfortable witnessing that. I mistakenly took it to mean WH WASN'T having an A. HOW CRAZY WAS I?
Sep 20/09(our 12th anniversary) I was told ILYBNILWY. The next few weeks I tried to "educate" WH on what life would be like if he left. Some things got through but not much. It only made him mad and tell me that he was NOT like everyone else. HAHAHAHAHA
May/09-Oct30/09 I tried to research whatever I could on affairs. I didn't know what I was doing. I found some websites and I didn't agree with them.
On Oct30/09, I found MB. My journey on this thread began here. My prayers were answered. I am THANKFUL for this site and all of the people who have helped me get to this point.
Thanx Pep. It was actually hard to write it looking back and seeing all the signs. I knew it, but I didn't. Not until I came here. I am grateful and I just wanted to give back. I want the BS's that I help to understand that I UNDERSTAND because I have been there. I am hopeful that this is a successful M story in the end, but I KNOW it will be a successful RECOVERY story since I am better off. Heck, I am better of now than I was when I got here.
On the Mom front, I loaned her SAA and she started reading it. She looked at me and said, "I see you and WH in this." HAHAHAHA I said, "Umm, do you see yourself too?" She just kept reading.
.......of course she didn't.....theirs is "speshul".....
Good job on the loan........way to educate without educating.....
WH said on HER cell phone... that he was there to help her with a problem with her bf. I said, "Yea her problem with her boyfriend is that he is married to ME."
Shear Genius.
Scot. Thanks for the back story. I knew you had a long struggle prior to MB. But this illustration makes your story all the more compelling. New folks could learn a lot from you. I certainly have.
Thanks for sharing that. It is very sad, but inspiring at the same time. Please continue to help others on here. We all need your experience and strength.
And on a lighter note....
I vote for an American Bulldog pup. Great dogs (if you can get past the flatulence issue) with a good temperament. Plus they just look cool.
Thank you for the story about how you got here. It is very similar to mine except that I did know Marriage Builders existed. I wasn't smart enough to be on here enough for it to help me as much as it could have.
Plus my WH had an EA back in 2001. I don't think we ever recovered from that (at least not the way we should have). We had no protection in place to prevent an A from ever happening again. I settled and I never should have done that. I thought I was doing the right thing for my children, when in reality, I was sucked in by WH's BS. He was strong enough to end the EA at the time because he did still love me, but he wasn't strong enough to change himself and protect our marriage. I was clueless.
Live and learn the hard way for me.
On the puppy front, I have never had a little dog, but my girlfriend has a long haired dachshund. She is so cute! She was a rescue dog. She is great with kids and not extremely needy. I, on the other, have a chocolate lab. Wonderful dog! She is the best thing that has happened to our family in the last 2 years. Very easy to housebreak, train and could not be better with my girls. They do shed, but little hairs everywhere, not big clumps. We had a collie/irish setter mix, a wired hair terrier and a beagle mix when I was growing up. All were wonderful dogs (beagles bark a lot, though).
I think it was the "UMMMMM" part of scottys post that drew me to think she was outgoing and honest at first.
You have been an inspiration to me Scotty and because you have stood for what is valuable in our relationships you have helped everyone who has read your thread.
After reading 07 as the year this started to infect your hubby I understand a little more of why he hasn't come to his senses yet and come home to such an awesome wife as you.
It will only be his selfish pride that blinds him to the fact that he belongs home and I hope his eyes get opened soon so you guys can start the next stage of recovery. But it is inspiring to see that you have not lost sight of what is valueable and the struggles that are required to maintain it.
So, my sister's eldest daughter's birthday is on Sunday. I asked my sister what we are doing for her birthday. She says, "Oh I thought you guys would just come over here." I said, "But the boys will be with WH until 630." She says, "Just tell him to drop them off at my house at 5." I said, "I will ask IM's to message but it's his only day with them this week so he will probably say no." I did it anyways. WH wrote back and said, "I will drop boys off at SIL's but at 630pm." Well, that isn't much of a surprise and I am sure glad that I am in a dark Plan B with IMs because I don't think it would have been pretty otherwise. I called my sister and told her that the kids would be there at 630pm. She was MAD. She said, "Well when the boys get here I am going to say, "It's too bad you missed the party since you were with Daddy."" I said, "You won't say that to them. That is RUDE. Maybe we will just forgo the party altogether and just stay home." She said, "Fine." and I hung up. I mean seriously? What does she think? The world revolves around HER? Sorry but I am ANGRY that she would say this to my kids. It would be more hurtful to make them feel guilty about missing their cousins party to spend the 9.5 hours in a week to be with their father. UNBELIEVABLE.
Sorry that your sis is being in idiot Scottie! That is ridiculous!! She needs to realize that the family has changed and that means people have to adapt to the new reality. I hate waywards but at the same time, I don't blame your WH one bit for not giving up any of his time with the kids.
Is this one of the storybook characters from affairland scotty? I mean if so and your stand that you are taking offends them, well maybe they are trying to blame you. Don't worry , if thats the case, you are acting in a much more healthy manner for your kids than they would.
I remember when my wife had fell off the wagon and started hiding drug abuse from me in that "other state" we had moved to. She started spinning tales of me being abusive,(I scared her and she was intimidated ), because I didn't like her drinking again and her brother came over to confront me. He said. "If you ever touch my sister I will make you wish you were never born" I said "You are a good brother and thank you for coming to me man to man, but she is saying that as an excuse to drink so you don't have to worry about it" Deep down he knew it was true but because he had drinking issues himself he had a hard time getting on my side. He did stop bringing sixpacks over during the day to "Chew the fat".
Birds of a feather flock together and you won't get a lot of support from ppl who will compromise whats right especially because they will be using the "confusing the kids" angle to justify why they can be mad at you instead of sticking up for you.
Sorry you have to bear it but know we understand and are behind you Scotty.
Nope. My sister was the BS. She is mad that I tell her that the reason she is having problems with her current BF is because he D was final last May and she started "dating" her bf when she was still M(August BEFORE D FINAL).
She is very angry at my WH for having an A but she isn't surprised. She sees the worst in people. She is MAD at my WH because it is ruing her daughter's bday. It is possible that she would come on here and read what I wrote so that's all I will say.
Ah but that would be great for her to come here. This is a place of healing although we all must be willing to admit we make mistakes and forgive ourselves as we forgive others.
The truth hurts sometimes but I can count on God to not lie to me. Along with promising me he loved me more than anyone else he also promised me I would make mistakes and need his guidance.
Life is for learning huh? But I don't have to tell you that Scotty
You know what surprises me sometimes? That some of my friends don't bash me when I casually mention the possibility of reconciliation with WH. I guess those are my real friends, because they really seem to understand and support me no matter which way I seem to lean.
Do what is best for you and your kids, Scotty, no matter what ANYONE else says!
Thanx AM. Almost everyone I know says that they wouldn't take their H or W back after an affair. Well, I know that is what they believe. A few of my friends have actually said that they can't say one way or the other. I am strong in my convictions and I let them know that telling me to cut bait and walk is not the advice I need. If they have any advice to offer me on how to get through a tough day of Plan B, I welcome that.
In all fairness, my sister did TRY to take her WH back. She just didn't know how to make it happen. They worked together(all 4 of them and my sister's current bf). There was never any NC(there is NOW). Her WH moved out to BC, left his family, kids and his job to be with POSOW. 6 months later, he moved back to Niagara. By then my sister had started dating. Her XH actually told her that he would have come back had she not been dating. He is an alcoholic too, so there were other things to deal with.
My sister is mad at my WH and just doesn't seem to be able to see other people's POV. You see with me, I often don't create problems where there isn't one. If my kids aren't mad about missing part of their cousins party to spend their time with my WH, why would I create one? I told my bf(bestfriend) that if my sister wanted to contact my WH herself and tell him that she is disappointed, I wouldn't care. It's the fact that she would somehow use my kids to get her point across.
I don't want my boys to be hurt by the fact that they would miss a party. They can still be a part of the celebrations, just not from the beginning and that is okay. The more important relationship that they have is the one with WH. ARGH.
Well I understood that completly from the start Scotty. about the time thing. She must have been having a touchy day or something?
If I had found MB like..what...15 years ago? What a difference it would have made for my marriage. But even though shes gone home, who my wife was would have wanted me to be here and learn, and heal,and take the wisdom in for the sake of our children.
Well, I went to my Sister's house for my nieces bday party. Funny thing is, I got there at 549pm and my kiddos where already there. I told my Mom that would happen. See, my sister has a small house and I knew that WH would try to come early, probably around the time I would be getting there. My sister told me that WH was there at 540pm. WH called DS9 this morning to make sure that DSx2 were still going with him today.
So on the Mom front. My Grandma called. She was talking to my Mom. My Mom speaks serbian to my grandma. I can't speak it, but I understand it. My Mom felt like she could openly discuss her sitch. She was talking about POSOM. She said that now he doesn't like me. HEHEHEHEHE I said, "That's good." She also said that it sucks living with POSOM because she feels like he has been keeping her away from her own family. He even put me down. He said I am a hypocrite, because I say I don't like him but I accept presents. My Mom says that she told him, "The presents are only accepted because they are from me not you." I agreed.
She got off of the phone with my grandma. She asked me about her POSOM and what the big deal is with me going around and why I don't like him. I said, "How do you feel about WH's POSOW? How comfortable would you be if he came to your house and introduced you to POSOW?" She said," How is that the same thing, YOU are my family not WH?" I said, "Mom, POSOM hurt MY DAD. GET IT? POSOM hurt me because he hurt my Dad by having an affair with YOU." Well, no response.
Well, I will admit to one thing today. I SUCK. I looked through the window. I know I suck. I miss him so much. It helped me be a little mad though. It wasn't worth it. WH of course didn't know so I only hurt myself. I need to keep strong.
Scot- I don't think you suck. I think you did a great job of telling your mom why you don't like POSOM. Not surprised you got no response. I bet she is thinking differently about it now though.
I think it is only natural to miss him. You are strong and you will continue to get stronger.
Scottie because I know you DO NOT suck I had to laugh when you said it--twice. I know you are just being honest about how lonely you feel and internlaizing the rejection.( Now my SPELLING SUCKS!)
Its plan B stuff I am sure.
We , the girl-crew, you, need to find a positive distraction for you that will build up your self-love-bank. Some indulgence like going to a spa or something like that. Something that makes you all fuzzy or whatever girls call it.
Please don't underestimate how "affairland" can wear you down. But I am so proud to here you speak-a-da-truth. with your Mom and Family. Support yourself first and worry about your happiness ok? They can start thier own threads...
I'll be okay. I know I will. It just sucks sometimes. As far as the spa thing, well for some girls that would be okay. I am not a girly girl. I am going to figure out something. I am just having a down day on this rollercoaster and I know that there will be an up.
Pep-Thanx for the hug. Just seeing that and what you quoted made me cry. Which really is okay. I will get through this. My Dad keeps saying, "This too shall pass." I keep hearing it in his voice too.
I think it has been all of the focusing on my own story that threw me. Also, this is the first Bday card written where I just wrote our 3 names on it and not WH. Knowing that he is missing and may never come back is just so sad. I too have moments where I wish he would just come home. Some more soul searching and healing is definitely in order. I will be FINE.
You most definitely DO NOT suck! I, for one, totally admire you. You are a wonderful mother and a great person, who has tremendous strength.
I think it is great that you were able to tell your mom what you have been telling her. She is very wayward and you are doing great standing up to her. It is very odd how waywards can see themselves in others, judge the others, but somehow, they don't associate that with themselves. I really think you may be making a huge impact on her and you may wind up helping save your parents' marriage.
Remember, affairland is likely not what WH thought it would be. He isn't ready to admit that yet, but don't give up yet.
And don't be harsh on yourself for missing him. Remember, you aren't missing WH, you are missing H. You love him and you trusted him. You didn't deserve to be cheated on and you shouldn't feel bad about yourself for still being willing to save your marriage and family. You are so much stronger than most people. Remember that - you are a beacon, a lighthouse. Lighthouses take a lot from the waves around them, but they remain standing there, ever watchful and ready to help save those lost out in the darkness.
Feel good about you - your friends here do, your sons do, and God loves you very much. He doesn't make junk.
Scotty, you soooo don't suck! You are a strong, awesome, capable young woman and a terrific, W, mother and daughter. I so admire you for your strenghth and fortitude in the last few months.
My DH went NC as soon as I confronted him and his A and our R were still more painful than anything I had ever imagine. I am not sure that I could have done what you have done.
I agree, do something nice for yourself. I am also not a "girly girl" but there is nothing that I like better or that rejuvinates me more than a massage.
She knows she doesn't suck. She was just saying that to draw attention away from her missing him so much. She knows she doesn't suck.
You are right that I know that as a person, I don't suck. I felt like I was having feelings about missing him that made me SUCK yesterday. I felt like if I had been stronger and NOT looked at him, I wouldn't have felt like that yesterday. I wouldn't have missed him so much.
Say-You are right, I don't miss WH, I miss H. I miss the person he used to be, not the person he has been for the past 2 years or so. I am not wallowing in self pity, but I did feel pretty "sucky" yesterday.
AM-Thank you for your post. It meant a lot.
I woke up this morning and didn't feel like doing anything. I went for my 1.5 mile walk with my friends anyways and it made me feel better. I was listening to really LOUD music while I was walking. I think it helped. Family games night tonight. Probably more YAHTZEE (DS9 LOVES it). I am feeling OKAY today. Thanx.
Lol yeah scotty I was thinking of you punching WH in the arm as you said "I suck huh?" "let me show you,,,," cuz when you said that you meant "this" sucks and how i "feel" sucks.
I saw that on TV once. I am REALLY ticklish. I mean REALLY. Did I say REALLY? DS9 will tickle my feet when we are play fighting and I have to warn him that I may kick him.
Feeling better now that I was out in the SUNSHINE. Even wore my sandals for the first time this year. Have to re-do my nail polish though, it is chipping.
WH's birthday is on Saturday. I am glad I am working. I will be keeping busy. It's gonna feel sucky but as always, I will get through it.
WH's birthday is on Saturday. I am glad I am working. I will be keeping busy. It's gonna feel sucky but as always, I will get through it.
Yes, I know you will get through it because I did. My WH's birthday was a week ago today, and I thought about that stupid %^&* all day. Well, I mean that I thought about my H all day, certainly not WH. I couldn't get DDs to make him a card, call him, nothing. They really see that WH is not the same person that their dad was. Either my children are extremely perceptive or WH has indeed changed that much in personality (maybe a bit of both).
Anyways - Scotty, you WILL persevere because you ROCK!
Thanx AM. FWIW, the kids CAN tell that WH isn't dear daddy anymore. DS9 said yesterday that it was funny because only bad things have happened to WH since he left. HAHAHAHA My kids are GREAT. DS9 also said, "Mommy, how long ago was December?" I said, "4 months ago, WHY?" He said, "That's how long Daddy has been gone for." I said, "Yes on Sunday it will be 4 months since Daddy left. How do you feel about that? You know that you can tell Daddy about your feelings right? You should tell him."
I don't know if he will but he knows he can tell me.
Yes, I know you will get through it because I did. My WH's birthday was a week ago today, and I thought about that stupid %^&* all day.
You just gave me an idea AnneMarie ! Let's see if it works for Scottyville.
Get a big empty pickle jar. (any jar, I just like the idea of a pickle jar) Have a lot of coins on hand. (You determine the Canadian coin that will work for you). Every time you have a thought (good/bad/indifferent) about WH .... you drop a coin into the WH pickle jar. (because he's in a pickle) The end of the week, you spend the $$$ on some recreational activity for you and the boys. However far it gets you. Half a pizza, whatever.
That way, these thoughts are not wasted, they are used for the greater good of all mankind and the entire planet will reap rewards. (maybe, I exaggerate a little)
Okay, sounds GREAT. I will do that. Man, I am gonna use LOONIES HAHAHAHAHA How does that sound? I am gonna go broke. HEHEHEHE. I just thought that maybe Loonies would be fitting, goes along with the pickle jar. I will start tomorrow.
Okay, sounds GREAT. I will do that. Man, I am gonna use LOONIES HAHAHAHAHA How does that sound? I am gonna go broke. HEHEHEHE. I just thought that maybe Loonies would be fitting, goes along with the pickle jar. I will start tomorrow.
She likes it !
Have the boys decorate the jar. (should be interesting) Be sure you call it "Daddy's in a pickle jar" ....
They will not be able to resist sharing their beautious pickle jar with ..... other people.
HAHAHAHAHA LOL Pep. HAHAHAHAHA Oh I am crying because I am laffing so hard. I know that the jar won't be as full as 4 months ago. Maybe I can take the kids to 7-11 for slurpees. It's sllurpee season again. WOOOHOOOO. THis is great because it shows me how much I think of.....well him.....and it will also help with Plan Aing the boys.
HAHAHAHAHA LOL Pep. HAHAHAHAHA Oh I am crying because I am laffing so hard. I know that the jar won't be as full as 4 months ago. Maybe I can take the kids to 7-11 for slurpees. It's sllurpee season again. WOOOHOOOO. THis is great because it shows me how much I think of.....well him.....and it will also help with Plan Aing the boys.
WH's birthday is on Saturday. I am glad I am working. I will be keeping busy. It's gonna feel sucky but as always, I will get through it.
Yes, I know you will get through it because I did. My WH's birthday was a week ago today, and I thought about that stupid %^&* all day. Well, I mean that I thought about my H all day, certainly not WH. I couldn't get DDs to make him a card, call him, nothing. They really see that WH is not the same person that their dad was. Either my children are extremely perceptive or WH has indeed changed that much in personality (maybe a bit of both).
Anyways - Scotty, you WILL persevere because you ROCK!
You do rock, Scotty! It sounds like you have had a few rough days; but you amaze me with your strength and ability to turn what you are feeling into a way for personal growth. I keep trying to be as positive and upbeat as you have been. And I know from reading your thread that you don't suck; but the situation we have been put into certainly does. Now I am going to have to google loonies!
Now, as to what your mom told OM about "she accepts the presents because they're from me," that was priceless. In some circles, it might even be considered a lovebuster.
Yep, mom's A is not doing so well at the moment.
Neither is WH's, but you're not supposed to think about that. You just did anyway because I said it, so go drop your loonie and move on.
Thanx a lot NEAK. I didn't need help. The jar is up to 10 loonies already and it is only 123pm.....I am gonna be in the poor house, but the kids will be happy. We can have slurpees everyday if they want HAHAHAHA.
I am dropping them today. No more since my last post. That's GREAT news for MEEEEE. I will be eating pickles with dinner so I can have an empty jar. I think I need to buy the loonies from the bank by the ROLL(25 each). HEHEHEHEHE
Funny thing is that when I looked on Sunday, I thought about how I told Atena not to do EXACTLY what I was doing. That's why I got so mad at myself. I knew I shouldn't but I did it anyways.
Oh my goodness, I just have to share how much I love the loonies! That is as great idea to drop those in a jar for your thoughts... wonder if I should do that every time I think of FOW...
Oh my goodness, I just have to share how much I love the loonies! That is as great idea to drop those in a jar for your thoughts... wonder if I should do that every time I think of FOW...
You're really a quick study grasshopper. When posting to newbies, if they refuse to READ the effin' MB concepts, I start answering their questions with "You first" or "What do you think?".
Lazy people can never muster the rigours of marriage recovery anyway. (I changed it from the American rigors, just for you)
Oh my goodness, I just have to share how much I love the loonies! That is as great idea to drop those in a jar for your thoughts... wonder if I should do that every time I think of FOW...
NO
For that, you need a "spit jar".
OMG! Awesome!!!!!! .. ok, I'm so done hijacking this forum....
Scotty what is going on now? Is your H still living with the OW?
Nothing has changed in my sitch Nova. My WH is still living with POSOW(well on Sunday he was Teeheee). I don't really see a change to my sitch for a while. (No Pep, that one doesn't count either :P ). I am sure that if my sitch changes, it will be plastered all over this thread. HEHEHEHE
I am up to 15 dollars now, pesky friends asking me about things and mentioning things that send my mind spinning. HEHEHEHE This is only the first day. I am going to need a job just to cover the jar TeeeHEEEEE
Aw, heck! Maybe you need to just call up your WH and tell him, "Get yo' @$$ home right now, cuz I can't afford to fill up the pickle jar with loonies!"
Just kidding....he'd probably think YOU were the loonie one instead of him! LOL!
That was GREAT. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I can't stop laffing about it. Cleaning out the pickle jar as you read this. I need to get to the bank and buy some rolls. Even my friend said that to me.
That is how I feel, like I am just waiting. Great analogy. I did start reading Mimi's thread, got to page 10 so far - I am not doing too bad in plan B. Thanks for bumping that to me. Hope you had a great day today!
NP, It was bumped to me at one point too. I think it was Not(I could MOST definitely be WRONG). It was WELL worth the read. She is a strong lady. I hope to meet her on these boards one day and tell her THANX.
There are so many on here that I would love to meet one day. You are all an inspiration to me, whether you have recovered your M or not. I hope to be like Mimi and Sexy Mama Bear (minus her personal A). Both are simply amazing stories. If they can do it, there is hope for all of us!
Ontario isn't that far from me, Scotty...though I guess that would now require a passport, which I do not have.
I have seen pictures somewhere on the forums of little groups of people who have met each other. I can't seem to find them since the great crash last year, but it seems like sometimes, people do get to meet each other.
Olive branch part deux was planned for May2nd. As WH's bday is Saturday. And it is gonna be the Top Gun movie. BTW, the bank account is still shared(OW must HATE that teeheee) so WH is going broke too. HEHEHEHEHE Yea, I know I know, drop my loonie in the pickle jar. That is only 3 for today so far :P
Hey Scotty! Sounds like you are doing pretty good today.
Just a suggestion: Open a bank account for you - just to protect yourself. I am really glad that I did as WH decided to wipe us out one day (and you just never know with waywards...). Luckily, I had anticipated that WH might get desperate with $$. If you are going broke, then protect at least your income.
On the lighter side... Saw at T Shirt at WalMart today that said
MOM She's better than Dad
It made me smile because it's true in my sitch!
I apologize to all the BH's, as in their case it certainly does NOT apply.
Well, I only had to put 6 LOONIES in the pickle jar today. That is great. Much better than the 20 from yesterday. It does a great deal of good to see it.
So on another point, I have a new dining room light. BIL came over to put it up for us. There hasn't been a light in there since we moved in 11 years ago. DS9 wants to know when we are getting the pool table. I told him we would have to save up for that(hmmm the pickle jar perhaps, hehehehehehe).
It's not visible from the driveway, but I will still turn it on. It will be noticed. Geez, I know I know, drop my loonie in the pickle jar and move on.
Well, we have a new addition to our family. Scooch, a 9 week old, border collie/shepherd mix came home today. She is so cute. She is very gentle. Quiet, she only whines a little when she has to go out. We are having a few accidents, but it is to be expected.
I had my wisdom teeth out today. IT HURT. No more wisdom in my head though(hehehehehe). Pain pills are AWESOME(don't worry it's only Ibuprofen, but 600mL).
So DS7 came home from school today and he said, "Mommy, I made 2 cards today. 1 is for Scooch, but I didn't know how to write her name so I wrote"Puppy". The other one is for Daddy. It tells him that he needs to come home." Broke my heart. S7 said he is going to give it to WH tomorrow, which is interesting, since it is WH's bday. I am sure that's not the card you expect on your bday from your 7 year old son.
You have a very smart (but hairy) pup on your hands. Scooch will be such a wonderfully loyal addition to your family (although, she may want to "herd" your kids).
Absolutely!!!!!! Congrats on the new puppy, there is nothing better than being greeted by a little hairy being who loves you unconditionally. I don't know how I would have survived if not for my dogs. My little one is with me; and I go out while WH is at work and see the other 2 once a week. Dogs are the best!!!
I hope you enjoy your new puppy too! Good luck with Scooch. I like the name by the way. Your S7's card brought a tear to my eye. I can only imagine what WH will think about it.
By the way, I downloaded some good ole' loud angry music today (some Offspring and Rise Against) and thought of you. I'll be singin' along all the way to VA tomorrow.
Oh, I forgot to mention that I feel for you on the wisdom teeth. I had mine out at 18 and everything went really well, except for the pain meds. They gave me codeine, which made me really, really sick. I am glad they gave you ibuprofen. That shouldn't make you sick. Hope you feel better fast!
You are so right Neak. My house sure is. I didn't do too badly today. Only 8 Loonies in the jar today. That is 50 in total. Now that is SAD hahahahaha.
Well, I have an interesting one for you all. This is the email sent to the IMs. I know I shouldn't have checked it. I did. Should I respond and what should I do about this?
"Scotty,
DS7 has expressed on more than 1 occasion that he does not want to come over to see me on weekends.
Since this you convincing him then you can help him decide what he wants to do.
He does not want to listen to me"
Should I even say anything to DS7? I guess this is the response to the card DS7 has written. I just want to talk to DS7 about his feelings but not even respond to this at all with WH. It was an email sent to IMs that was addressed to ME. ARGH. Life is GRAND, wayturds suck azz.
YES THEY DO!!! Sorry he is making you and especially your sweet boys sad. Wayturds are way selfish. At least you now have a great puppy to fawn over and keep you busy.
Just curious, but how did you manage to get this message if it was sent to the IM?
Do NOT engage WH directly. That is exactly what he wants. I am positive that my IM has received similar comments from my WH, but they are NOT passed to me.
Melodylane: How would you suggest that her IM respond to this?? WH should not know that this got through to Scotty, should he?
Scotty, does DS7 fight you about going to see his father? If he does not, I am not sure that I would do anything at all. His relationship with WH is up to WH, not you. As long as WH is not being abusive toward DS7 and DS7 is not fighting about going, then you most likely should not do anything.
If DS7 is fighting you about seeing WH, why? Does he give you a reason??
I spoke to DS7 and asked him what happened. I guess it is this, DS7 was whining today. WH sent him to the bathroom for a time out. DS7 then expressed his desire to go home. WH told him there was no one home. I am not responding at all to WH. I asked DS7 about it. I don't think it is a big deal. I told DS7 to express whatever feelings he has with WH. If WH can't deal with it, he will have to become a father and GROW UP HEHEHEHE
You are so right Neak. My house sure is. I didn't do too badly today. Only 8 Loonies in the jar today. That is 50 in total. Now that is SAD hahahahaha.
Well, I have an interesting one for you all. This is the email sent to the IMs. I know I shouldn't have checked it. I did. Should I respond and what should I do about this?
"Scotty,
DS7 has expressed on more than 1 occasion that he does not want to come over to see me on weekends.
Since this you convincing him then you can help him decide what he wants to do.
He does not want to listen to me"
Should I even say anything to DS7? I guess this is the response to the card DS7 has written. I just want to talk to DS7 about his feelings but not even respond to this at all with WH. It was an email sent to IMs that was addressed to ME. ARGH. Life is GRAND, wayturds suck azz.
Scotty, how did you even GET that email? Don't you have an IM?
I do have an IM. THe thing is, I set up the email addy for them so I knew the password. DS9 told me that WH emailed me. I checked it. I know I shouldn't have but I was curious. I am not going to respond to WH about it. I am not going to do anything about it. I asked DS7 and DS9 what it was about. That is as far as I am going to take it.
Scotty, it would be a good idea to ask her to change the password. I am an IM for a couple of folks and believe me, there are emails I get that would set them on their ear. You don't even need to know what he is saying and I would remove that tempatation ASAP..
There's nothing to apologize for. Plan B is really hard and we all get curious sometimes. At least the message you got wasn't really crazy. It could have been much, much worse.
I used to spy on WH's facebook account. I have since forgotten the login to the account that I used to do that. It made me mad the one day, but then I realized that God must not want me to do that anymore, so I am just going to accept that He knows what is best for me.
My Daily Motivator Here is your Motivation of the Day ''Never give in. Never, never, never, never! Never yield in any way, great or small, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force and the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy'' (Winston Churchill)
The ONLY thing I'm gonna say is that I think you succumbing to temptation and going into the email is worth a 10 loonie drop.......the bigger the offense, the bigger the consequence.....
congrats on the puppy.....Now YOU will have some company when those precious babies of yours are gone......
As to response or no response, this isn't an emergency, but it is important enough that I think the basic gist should have been passed on.
So here's what we'll do...we'll back up and pretend Scotty never saw that other email. (Especially since she's going to be a good girl and prevent the temptation from happening again.)Also, since this new correspondence came through the "appropriate" channels, you don't have to drop any extra loonies.
Scotty, you just got this note from your IM's:
Quote
Scotty, WH just wrote to us about some problems/challenges he's having with DS7. DS7 has not been wanting to go with WH for the weekends, and WH would like your input on how to handle this to make it easier for DS7. Thanks!
Scotty: Bwaaahaaahaaaaaaaa, come home ya loonie, that's how ya make it easier!!!!!!!! Ahem. Yes, a response.
Quote
IM's, thanks for letting me know. My suggestion is for him to avoid taking the boys around Ms./Mrs. OW Note: normally I'm in favor of calling the OW "adultery partner"; in this instance with a nice dark PB, I want every single thing WH gets to be sweetness and light if possible.) as that makes it even harder for them than this is already. Once the A is over and WH comes home, these types of problems will resolve themselves. Thanks, Scotty
That's a starting point for the brainstorming session.
Having a kid totally not want to go with their wayward parent is common and understandable, though it can become a serious issue to deal with. So I think that putting it right out there - but nicely - that the presence of the OW exacerbates everything they're suffering already, and pointing out the temporary nature of the problem (and the affair, mwaahahaa), helps put it in perspective before it gets blown up any bigger.
Okay Neak. That sounds great. I will pass on the info to the IMs and I will get them to change their email password because I definitely don't think I would want to be tempted to peak at the response to that one. SHUDDER.
.............Scotty: Bwaaahaaahaaaaaaaa, come home ya loonie, that's how ya make it easier!!!!!!!! Ahem. Yes, a response........ This made me LMAO
Quote
IM's, thanks for letting me know. My suggestion is for him to avoid taking the boys around Ms./Mrs. OW Note: normally I'm in favor of calling the OW "adultery partner"; in this instance with a nice dark PB, I want every single thing WH gets to be sweetness and light if possible.) as that makes it even harder for them than this is already. Once the A is over and WH comes home, these types of problems will resolve themselves. Thanks, Scotty
That's a starting point for the brainstorming session.
Having a kid totally not want to go with their wayward parent is common and understandable, though it can become a serious issue to deal with. So I think that putting it right out there - but nicely - that the presence of the OW exacerbates everything they're suffering already, and pointing out the temporary nature of the problem (and the affair, mwaahahaa), helps put it in perspective before it gets blown up any bigger.
Awesome Neak,, this whole post. Great Ideas.
Scotty, Everyone slips once in a while. After all you do love him still. Proof that Plan B is being executed just fine.
Its noticable that its not well in affairland and WH and/or POSOW are trying to blame this on you. You just stay strong because eventually they will have to look at themselves and see why its not so sweet in paradise, Its them that are stinking it up not everyone else.
Okay, so this is what happened today. I asked my IMs sister to become a partner IM for my IMs. My current IMs are not that computer savvy which is why I set the email up for them in the first place. She is going to take over the email part and change the password for me so I won't be tempted anymore. I was getting angrier as the day was going on and I was talking about it with some of my friends. I can see how it would be a good thing for me to get rid of the temptation to read the emails.
So, Workday ends, I go outside to get my ride home and my ride is nowhere to be seen. I call their cell phone. BIL's GF says, "It's only 5, we are in X CITY(which is 30 mins away)" I say, "It's actually 545." She says, "Sorry, we'll be right there." So about 30 mins later, I call again. Kids will be home at 630. I say, "Can one of you go to my house to get the kids and the other come and get me?" She says, "Yep, that's what we were going to do."
I get home and BIL's GF says, "WH lingered for a while because he was petting Scooch." I told her that I wasn't sure I wanted him to see Scooch. Oh well, what's done is done. I know WH is a dog person and prob misses having pets, but I felt like Scooch was something he would have had to miss out on. I guess now he KNOWS what he is missing a little more. Everyone who sees her says she is CUTE. I will have to get a pic up here to show all of you.
I get home and BIL's GF says, "WH lingered for a while because he was petting Scooch." I told her that I wasn't sure I wanted him to see Scooch. Oh well, what's done is done. I know WH is a dog person and prob misses having pets, but I felt like Scooch was something he would have had to miss out on. I guess now he KNOWS what he is missing a little more. Everyone who sees her says she is CUTE. I will have to get a pic up here to show all of you.
yep..... I think this was a GOOD thing. Between the card, DS admission on wanting to go home, WH seeing the boys light up when they get home, and the puppy breath and puppy eyes.....well I am sure the funk it put WH didn't go over well in Affairland.
My H told me once it would physically hurt to come over and see the kids and I doing so well. Almost as if we didn't need him....we did....
But as you are in Plan B, you are not supposed to know or speculate the effects...... I guess I owe YOU a loonie!!!!!.....
great job on the IM sitch!!!'......That's a 5 loonie recovery point, so I say you only owe 5 to the jar for this weekends mishap.....
{{{{Scottie}}}}..... you are doing BEAUTIfULLY in Plan B. Your story will be the one we point to for future Plan Ber's......
Thanx Not. It is also why I try to put as much detail in it. It is for those who come after me as well as those now. It makes me SMILE when I see the pickle jars and LOONIES referenced in other's threads. I know it was Pep's idea but it feels like it belongs to me too. I am glad to share it.
I didn't think about the effect on WH too much. I am finding that I am settling into life without him rather well lately. It is funny because 6 months ago, I couldn't even sleep if he wasn't in the bed with me and now I sleep better than I have in years hehehehehe
Thanx for the Well wishes for the pup. She has decided that SOCKS are her favourite toy. We have to keep the lid closed on the hamper cuz she keeps stealing the socks HAHAHAHAHA
I moved myself up to a 2 mile walk around the track now. WOOOHOOO.
My TEEFERS are KILLING me but ADVIL liquid gels are amazing.
I know WH is a dog person and prob misses having pets, but I felt like Scooch was something he would have had to miss out on. I guess now he KNOWS what he is missing a little more.
It makes me SMILE when I see the pickle jars and LOONIES referenced in other's threads. I know it was Pep's idea but it feels like it belongs to me too. I am glad to share it.
Inspired by AnneMarie, so she gets 1/3 of the royalties.
Thanx FF. Every prayer will help. Either way, I know we will be GREAT. The journey and the growing will help either way. I am so blessed to have found MB. I often say that I wish I had found it 2 years earlier but I think I found it when I was supposed to, when I was the most willing to listen. That's why when I see a newbie posting and they are in the beginning or a horrible journey and they don't take the advice to heart, I get frustrated. I think about how much pain I would have spared myself and my poor boys. I am doing better now though, and that is what is most important.
And don't give even half a loonie's thought to whether WH pets her or not. While you wouldn't want to orchestrate the interactions yourself, it's fine if they happen on their own. That way, when he comes home she'll already be accustomed to him.
awesome choice of a dog... i have one of those myself and used to have an australian shephard that now lives exclusively with XH. Miss him as i do but they do herd. Best way to get them to stop herding or nipping is to yip in high pitched voice. At a young age they think they are playing in the "pack" when they do it as play bitting but the yipping from the other puppies tells them it is too hard. Now my dog was trained that way and all she does is lick and lick and lick... hehe. As for the socks if it continues put hot pepper on them... there is a spray at the pet store or you can make your own. works like a charm... usually.
AT any rate awesome dog and you and the boys will love playing with her...Great name btw.
As I sit here with a little adorable puppy sleeping at my feet, I think about what I can update for today.
I was talking to DSx2 today and DS9 said, "Mommy, get your loonie and go drop it in the jar." Wow. My kids are awesome. HEHEHEHE
Then just before bed, DS7 wants a drink. He has trouble reaching the cups. He can reach the bottom of the stack. The top one fell over and he says, "Thank you God for crating gravity so I could get my cup. And thank you God for making us grow so I can reach the cups when I am bigger." Oh, I had to chuckle that was great.
So, BIL comes over with niece to see Scooch. We take Scooch outside and the 3 kids run around for an hour. DSx2 don't even remember about WH calling(to be honest I forgot too hehehehe). So DSx2 ask before bed if WH emailed. I check. He did. WH says, "I tried to call. No one answered. You must be out walking your little puppy. I enjoyed having you over this weekend. You two were great. It was fun. Love you." Well, geez. It was FUN. WH enjoyed having them over? Then what was with the email on Saturday? Argh. Wayturds suck azz.
Oh, I forgot. I ran into DS7's teacher yesterday and she told me what DS7 wrote in his card to WH. It simply said, "Daddy, I love you. PLease come home." Wow. It brings tears to my eyes just writing it now.
Well, another heartbreaking exchange for WH today. DS9 came back downstairs after I tucked him in. He was crying. He said he missed Daddy. I asked if he wanted to call him and he said no. I asked him if he wanted to email him and he said yes. This is what he wrote.
Originally Posted by DS9
daddy, it's me DS9. i can't sleep. i miss you. it would be easier if you were home. taking care of scooch would be easier. going to bed would be easier because i miss you tucking us in. i miss you after school. i miss you playing with me. everything that happens here would be much easier with you here. i miss you. i love you i wish you would come home. love DS9 and all of the hope that you'll come home
I know that WH has a ice cold hard heart for things dealing with me right now. I don't know how anyone who has any heart couldn't have it broken a bit by this. It was totally what DS9 wanted to write.
Today wasn't a great day for me. It has been a hard week. My teeth are still bugging me and that causes me to not be as patient with everything. I don't think the kids knew how hard it was to have a puppy. DS9 was definitely ready for her and he is great with her. DS7 on the other hand is a bit more apprehensive. Which in turn causes Scooch to become dominant towards him. I am working on it. Pushing through this the best I can. I am still making myself walk my 2 miles a day. My eating habits are out of whack again but I will get on track.
Not too many thoughts about WH as I have been too busy and I have a pickle jar with 75 LOONIES in it already. DS9 couldn't believe it. Getting things taken care of and trying to have as normal a life as I can for me and my kids.
Oh my goodness, Scotty, what a heartbreaking message from DS9!!! Why do people think this isn't as difficult on children if not more! My heart goes out to your DS.
As much as Spas are great(for other people), for me it is not my idea of fun. Besides, I am supposed to be using it to help Plan A my kids. I may one day go to a spa, I am just not sure I would do so any time soon
I was thinking about a movie. I was also thinking about taking them to the arcade. I have $20 in tokens from last year when I was supposed to take them. Also, since we live in Niagara Falls and it is becoming tourist season there is a lot of fun things to do on Clifton Hill. Hmmmmmm decisions decisions.
Oh my, the note from your son broke my heart! How can a wayward read something like that and still believe that what they are doing is ok for anyone? What sweet boys you have.
In a way, I wish that my DDs were in contact with my WH and telling him things like that. On the other hand, I can hear WH telling them that D is better for all of us in the long run. Waywards are such idiots!
Niagara Falls is so beautiful. I haven't been there for about 20 years now, but I would love to bring my DDs there. They have never been there. I almost took them last summer because there are Irish Step dance competitions there and I thought it would be cool to go to a Canadian competition.
Do your boys like zoos and if so, are there any near you? How about a waterpark? I know that both of those options might require saving more loonies than you currently have, but just some thoughts. Skating is an option, too.
When we got our lab 2 years ago, my older daughter was 9 and very ready for the puppy. My younger daughter was 6 and had no idea how rough puppies could be (not to mention how sharp their teeth are). As a result, DD11 is much closer to the dog than DD8, but DD8 is bonding more with the dog now (especially since her sister is away at a camp right now with her class until tomorrow).
We are just now starting to exit the puppy stage with our dog (and she's 76 pounds of puppy now).
I don't know if they have any in your area, but I took my boys to an indoor rock climbing place. They had a 100 ft. climbing wall and it was fairly cheap and the boys loved it. Just an idea for something different.
Cool ideas. Waterpark and indoor rock climbing. See that's why I asked for ideas from you.
Well, my teeth aren't hurting as bad so today is getting better already
So, I forgot to mention what happened at my niece's Bday party on Wednesday. DS9 has been having some anger issues again. DS7, DN8 and DN6 were all calling Scooch stupid. DS9 was getting angry and even hitting them. He wasn't acting like his normal happy self. My mom mentioned something about how he was angrier than she had ever seen. I said, "Yea and parents think that when they have an affair it doesn't effect their children." My mom looked at my sister and I and said, "Did it affect you?" I said, "Not in the same way but YES." She didn't say anything after that. She picked up SAA after that and continued reading.
As far as the Scooch sitch and DS7, he is scared of her every morning. He screams and wants us to take her somewhere else because he is afraid that she is going to bite his fingers off. I try really hard to get him to understand that if he shows fear that she is going to jump on him more. She actually grabs his clothes out of the hamper and she steals his blanket and toys. I know once we get through training her, it will be much better. She really is a good little pup.
I don't know that I've ever posted to you, but I check your thread every day. I keep waiting for your WH to wake up!
Anyway, we vacation in Canada every summer (Muskoka area) and head home through Niagara Falls. When I saw that you were willing to go to Clifton Hill with your boys I thought I should nominate you for mother of the year! Our kids are getting older (15 and 12 next month) and we keep waiting for them to lose interest, but every year they want to go.
Your most recent puppy comment caused me to leave lurkdom. There's a great book about raising puppies by an order of monks (yes, I'm serious). Their order takes in German Shepherd pups and trains them. The whole philosophy stems from the knowledge that dogs are descended from wolves. Dogs have that same pack mentality that they apply to the family since they don�t have a pack of their own. It sounds like your puppy may be trying to establish himself over your DS7 in the pack order (the aggressive play and stealing of personal items). According to the book, part of your training involves sending the message to the puppy that he is the low man on the family totem pole. It�s been years since I read it, but it involves things like feeding the puppy after you and the kids eat, not letting the puppy go before you through doorways and various other things. It�s all the things wolves do to establish a higher place in their pack. Once your puppy gets the message, he�ll stop being so aggressive with your son. Having your DS7 participate in the training might help him overcome his fear.
The book is called: The Monks of New Skete: The Art of Raising a Puppy. It�s a classic, so your library should have it.
I used these techniques to great effect on our dog. Mind you, she�s a 4.5 pound teacup poodle and very timid, so it didn�t really matter what I did training-wise.
awwwwwww honey. I'm sorry you are having a rotten day/week. I'm sure a lot of that stems from your teeth. I know for me, when I am physically I'll, it tends to bring my emotional state down.....hope those teef heal soon....
About the puppy.... Are you crate training him? I strongly advise you to check into that. I did with our dog/horse, and it saved us and her much aggravation.
Anywho, to echo your sentiments.....WAYWARDS SUCK A$$.....
I totally agree on the puppy training philosophy Bea. I believe the book that I got on labs basically said the same things that you did. Our lab instantly knew that WH was the lead dog in our house (how I don't know because he was never home). She somehow knew that DD11 and I were ahead of her, too, but she did try to put herself before DD8 for a long time. And DD8 was not the greatest about enforcing her rank. Once DD8 got the hang of how dogs learn and the pack order idea, everything fell into place.
I am now the lead dog, by the way! I sort of like being in charge (although some days, our dog listens to DD11 better than me).
Something on the puppy side of things to train your DS7 on -
He's about to enter "Young Man" training which is essential to learning how to be a good dad some day.
Teach him how to never show his fear to the dog, but his natural tendency if he's trying not to show fear is to be mean or be a bully.
My husband's sister showed our son how to do a "dominance down" on our dog when she was a puppy. Every time she tried to jump on DS without invitation he was to "touch nice" but firmly push her to the ground onto her side while saying "Down" slowly and repeatedly and then hold her there until she stopped struggling. Then he'd pet her and sooth her with his words then let her get up. If she jumped right back up on him, she'd get the same treatment. The trick is to have your younger son do this training.
He has to teach her that in the scheme of the family structure she's going to be safe and okay being the low man on the totem pole!
Our son was four when he learned how to do this, so your son gets to learn how to do it with a size and age advantage over a similar breed puppy.
The trick is that he has to be firm, but loving, not bullying. She has to feel safe not being dominant anymore.
I'm the leader of the pack to the poodle, but my DD14 has a rank all to herself. She's queen of the house to all the animals. The dog and our two cats worship her. The lizard would too, but he's always stuck in his cage.
Cesar Milan's books or videos are great too. Again, it is not allowing the dog to be the pack leader but become part of the pack (your family). What Cesar does is train people, not dogs really.
Scotty, I am sending hugs and prayers to your family...especially DS9.
I think my 5-yo Pekinese realizes that my DH is the alpha dog. However... we sleep with our door closed and she's usually left downstairs. Most of the time I get up first and I will go downstairs to get a drink or whatever. Then, I'll go back upstairs to get ready. "Luvey" races me up the stairs and waits for me to open our bedroom door. Then she will jump on our bed (where DH is still sleeping) and go CRAZY barking, and whining (and snapping if I get too close) at me to stay away from him.
There's no longer an OW in our life but I guess you could say there is an OD. She's nuts!
She's really playing though because when I grab her and tell her to hush she's licking me and wagging her tail. She thinks it's a game.
Thanx about all of the talk about our Scooch. I have been teaching him to do that and I watch Dog Whisperer all of the time. I know that Scooch knows that I am pack leader because she waits for me to go through doors. I do get the kids to feed her after we have all eaten. I even got DS9 to start holding her down until she stopped struggling. The funny thing is that she did struggle really badly at first until I put my hand on her too to show him. He did it a few more times. I have tried to explain it to DS7, I guess when he sees the change Scooch makes through DS9's training he will get it.
So I saw the response that WH gave DS9 to his email and it really makes me want to kick him. Here it is(remember my WH is a man of few words)
Originally Posted by Dorkus Maximus(as Pep calls him)
I understand buddy. I miss you guys too. Alot.
Sometimes though things just are not that easy.
I dont expect you to understand.
Just remember, I love you and DS7 so much and never want to lose you guys. If you guys ever want to sleep over just ask. I would love tucking you in. Kissing you goodnight.
Originally Posted by Dorkus Maximus(as Pep calls him)
I understand buddy. I miss you guys too. Alot.
Sometimes though things just are not that easy. I dont expect you to understand.
Just remember, I love you and DS7 so much and never want to lose you guys. If you guys ever want to sleep over just ask. I would love tucking you in. Kissing you goodnight. Love Daddy
Good golly......of course it's easy.....GET RID OF OW!!!!!
See, it's stupid garbage like that that keeps me from posting (most of the time...) to the new wayward on here. My emotions are just not seasoned enough......
I don't know if DS7 can benifet from this scotty but heres my take on the puppy and the other dog, WH.
If you can explain that the puppy is confused and scared and needs him to teach him maybe DS7 will be able to turn this frustration into something he can use for his own little sweet heart.
Maybe telling him that the puppy does not know his place yet and while your showing him, (like you allready are), you are accually helping the puppy to calm down. Like the puppy can't control himself because he can't understand what he is doing wrong. Not that he won't, but he can't. That way he can feel sympathy for him. Then when he is doing the exercizes with you he will be doing something he can be proud of.
Tell him the puppy absolutly needs to know his place or he will never be happy and will allways be scared. Once he learns his place and knows what he can and can't do he will no longer hurt you. You guys are like God to the Puppy and he is counting on you to love him by showing him his place so he is not lost and confused.
As far as Daddy goes, God is waiting to teach him his place. When he does he will no longer hurt people either. God put you in charge of the puppy and God is in charge of WH.
Maybe thats too much for DS7 to understand but its easy for me to understand.
There is a saying not quite sure where it comes from but I hear spiritual ppl say it.
Thanx SSO, I will try that. DS9 is doing GREAT with the training so far. DS7 sees the results and is now also trying it out.
Just got home from Dairy Queen. Went with Mom, Dad and DSx2. Got to throw out a little more of the DrH and MB concepts. Told my mom that affairs are based in fantasies and that you most always AFFAIR DOWN. She agreed. She is at a funny place and I don't know the right way to nudge her. I feel like she has actually flipped her sitch from before and now she is almost having the A with my Dad. Whenever she leaves him she asks when she is going to talk to him again. My Dad is losing his love and FAST. I don't know how he does it. I guess my Mom and POSOM were at the Casino yesterday and my Dad walked by. How WEIRD. My mom doesn't see anything wrong with talking about her POSOM while with my Dad. Sick SICK SICK. Well, I am doing my best for me and my family
She has read SAA right? Does she come to the site and read all Dr Hs other info? How about yur Dad?
You are living above all that affairland foggyheaded fantasyland crap that hurts everyone, esspecially children. As we are children of God
If your Mom and Dad get back together they will need to get help to put the past behind and rebuild the marriage scotty. Be glad God gave you the common sense to see how sick people can become without boundaries that protect us all.
She is still reading SAA. She is not on this site although I have told her about it. My Dad is not tech savy at all and doesn't read well. I am a little too drained to deal with them right now. Yesterday was an especially hard day for me. I got over it. I retained some of my anger towards WH though so I could make sure that BAR is set HIGH. Not so that it is unattainable, just high enough to make sure I don't get a half-azzed attempt at R(if I ever get that chance). I want a REMARKABLE attempt at R. My WH doesn't know how right he is, R wouldn't be EASY, for either of us. WATURDS SUCK AZZ. There I feel much BETTER.
DS9 didn't even make any mention of that part at all. I am waiting for the day when he wants to though. Legally, I can't keep them away from the "love nest" I know that DS7 won't want to sleep there. DS9 is Daddy's boy and to his credit, WH was a great Dad pre-A. I think DS9 still remembers him that way and can't wait to see his Daddy come resurface.
Why can't you legally prevent them from being around OW? You aren't divorced, and I thought I read someone else's thread last summer that said he could prevent his children from being around OM (and he was in Canada, too).
My WH used to be a great dad, too - even though he wasn't the greatest husband sometimes. He was always a great dad, and I used to tell him that all the time. (You would have thought that would count toward admiration, huh? It didn't though).
Anyways, once WH starting changing his morals, DDs started to notice (even before I did). They knew something was wrong and different about their dad, and they started complaining about it. And now, they don't see their dad at all (at least not the guy that they knew him once to be). Mr. Conservative now has hoop earrings, dyed hair and a fake tan (I haven't noticed all this as I have not seen WH, but this is what I hear). DD8 says he isn't HER dad at all.
I hope Daddy resurfaces for your son, Scotty. If he does, maybe his morals will come back, too and you will get that chance for a great R.
Well, this morning, at 6am, I decided to do Operation:Olive branch part deux. I wrote out what Neak wrote(the want ad) and I put Top Gun in a bag with the CD I was supposed to get last time.
I put on a dress, high heels and a jean jacket. I did my hair up nicely and put some makeup on. I walked out when he got here. He was wearing a golf hat(One more thing he will have to get rid of when/if he comes home), mod robes(which he used to wear as PJs), his flight jacket(I told you that Top Gun would be extremely appropriate) and a ratty long sleeve T. He saw me and instantly would not look at me. Barely even acknowledged my existence. I handed him the bag, which he took. I then held his arm and said, "I haven't lost that loving feeling." He didn't pull away, I did. I walked to the door without looking back. Then when I reached the door, I looked at him. I waited until he got into the truck. He opened the door and looked up at me. I turned around and walked away.
I came inside to change(can't wear a dress or heels to work). I noticed he stayed for a few minutes. Then I left for work and I didn't really get affected like last time.
While I was writing this, the kids came home. I asked them what Daddy did with the movie this time. DS7 said, "He had the bag in his hand when we were leaving." DS9 looked on the porch and there was the movie and CD along with the key to the car in our driveway(which doesn't work anyways). I wasn't totally shocked that he returned the movie. I will admit that I am slightly disappointed. I wanted to cry a little but I am over it(for now). Not going to think about it for another couple of months.
Went for a walk with Scooch, took the kids to 7-11. Re-focusing on me and what is good for me.
Plus he knows OW will cook his goose if any more unexplained (or worse yet, explained) items show up at the house.
Cuz if she asks in front of the boys where it came from and he tries to lie, there will def be a brave little trooper there to say, "But Daddy, I saw Mommy give it to urbleufflemuffle - hey, get your hand off my mouth!"
Don't worry about what I am thinking about. NO EXPECTATIONS RIGHT? Now off to helping the people who feel lost and alone. Also, I need to figure out what I am going to do with my life. I have had some people give me leads on jobs at banks. I just need a mon-fri day job. Are there any of those left anymore? HAHAHAHA
Plus he knows OW will cook his goose if any more unexplained (or worse yet, explained) items show up at the house.
Cuz if she asks in front of the boys where it came from and he tries to lie, there will def be a brave little trooper there to say, "But Daddy, I saw Mommy give it to urbleufflemuffle - hey, get your hand off my mouth!"
Yes Scotty that was probably most of why he left it. Don't worry he was affected. You were perfect BTW in how you did it.
Yes no expectations just know you are awesome and represent love that the OW could never have .
Don't underestimate the power of responsibility he feels for OW. He doesn't see that in the long run he is hurting her by enabling this relationship. In his mind you are strong ans settled. She is weak and helpless. Its part of the being needed thing going on with him. He doesn't think his actions will have a long term effect on you, the boys or him.
Lets face it, his thinking is flawed but his ego/feelings are getting in the way of who he can truly be.
Lets pray that God gets ahold of his conscience and has a little meeting with him and asks him why hes wearing that figleaf. Hes not fooling anyone.
So, the kids had a REALLY hard time going to sleep. It was 9:30pm(their bedtime is 8pm) and they were still fighting. I went upstairs to watch TV. DS7 decided he was going to sleep in my room. He is so stubborn. I was having a tugging match with him. I told him he needed to sleep in his own room. I got him out of my room and on his way to his when DS9 comes into my room and bursts into tears. I say, "What's wrong." He cries, "I miss Daddy." I ask him if he wants to call. He says, "Yes." He gets the hone and calls. The phone rings and rings. He calls again and WH answers. DS9 tells him he misses him and wants him to come home. DS9 pretty much cries for 5 minutes. Then he says, "I love you too," and they hang up. DS9 says that WH's phone is dying. He was still upset though so I consoled him.
During this consoling, he says, "Did Daddy think that it was good for us? Did Daddy think that leaving us was good? Because he was wrong." Out of the mouths of babes.
We woke up this morning and this is the email that the boys got.
Originally Posted by DM
Hello DS9,
Im really sorry that I couldnt talk longer. My phone was about to die and I didnt want you to think I hung up on you.
I really miss you and DS7 alot. I love seeing you guys on the weekend. I want to see you more during the week but Im not allowed to. Every time I try to come see you during the week Mommy takes you somewhere so I cant.
If you ever want me to come see you and just hang out with you and DS7 just let me know. Ill come right after work or not take you home right away or pick you up earlier. I love spending time with you and DS7.
Love you DS9, Love you DS7
It's exchanges like these that benefit from my children already knowing the whole truth. DS9 said, "But he is allowed he just has to use IMs." I said, "Yep, you're right." He replied with, "But Daddy you are allowed to come and take us to the park." DS9 sent it before I had a chance to look at it. Do you guys think I should get the IMs to send a note explaining that WH IS allowed to see the kiddos on other days as long as he goes through the IMs FIRST and gets a response?
I would - a big nose-grower like that is something DS would have talked over with you even if you hadn't seen the email. (PS I think it's time the IM's began censoring the kids' emails, or get an additional kid-IM if you think it would be too much extra for your original IM's.
Quote
WH,
Perhaps there has been a misunderstanding. Your wife will accommodate your requests for visitation during the week whenever possible, as long as they are sent through us (IM's) with sufficient time to pass on the message and receive a response. Two days in advance [or however many] should be enough time in most cases.
Neak YOU ARE AMAZING. That is great. I will get a message sent to IMs right away. Now I am concerned that WH will see DS9's email as an invitation for him to just show up whenever he wants to. I am NOT okay with that.
I might just ask the same person I have enlisted as my new email IM. She lives 2 hours away but she is the sister of one of the IMs I already use. She is more computer savvy and she is on the computer a lot more often than my IMs. Since WH doesn't have VM, getting messages through email is the most effective way.
I know I need to keep an eye on what WH is sending the kiddos, but it isn't worth the headache for me to do it personally. I will get someone else to take care of that for me. That is 2 emails in a week that have said something disparaging about me. It could be A LOT worse, I am well aware. WH seems to still have some semblance of decorum left when it comes to the kids.
...... I want to see you more during the week but Im not allowed to. Every time I try to come see you during the week Mommy takes you somewhere so I cant...........
We know and even if he has lost a few brain cells he knows that this isn't true..
So this is not a surprise tho is it considering the flimsy foundation Waynurds use to hold up thier actions.
I wonder.. If POSOW is willing to support that kind of ,"Well, I tryed" thinking is it because it bothers her to have the boys over? Maybe so.. They clearly have more character than she does and can see the lie.
More evidence that thier foundation is built on shifting sand and it will fall.
While you and your two boys are the foundation built on a rock
... We know and even if he has lost a few brain cells he knows that this isn't true..
lol quoting myself.
I mean do they really Say to themselves that crap? Is the relationship they have built on that kind of willingness to tell each other those lies?
If they are just being manipulative and know it do they wonder when or if they will eventually lie to each other?
I know this might hurt when I bring this up scotty but I just wanted to remind you of the fairy-tale that WH is living. I m sure that you know it and it doesn't make the pain of rejection much better. But I am concerned for you more than WH right now. And your boys.
You have been a lighthouse in the world you are living in and I just want to let you know that you are an awesome lady. You will rise above this and feel whole again. I hope I didn't trigger things that will hurt you. Hang in there
It's been a few days since I posted. That's because nothing has really changed. I am NOT surprised in the least that WH didn't take his opportunity to come and see the kiddos this week at all. He didn't even attempt it. Well, the boys know the truth and the more often WH proves me RIGHT the further in his hole he slips. What a turd.
WH was talking to DS9 on the phone the other day and I heard DS9 say, "I am in grade 4 daddy." Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather. WH doesn't even know that DS9 is in grade 4, he thought he was in grade 3. Argh. That's what happens when you share a brain and one brain cell with all of the other adulterers on the planet.
Taking the kids to Clifton Hill tonight. They are SUPER excited. We are using some of the LOONIES from the pickle jar.
Walking 2.5 miles every day now, and it makes me feel much better. I am glad to have friends to push me. Also walking twice a day with Scooch. Everything is moving along well at Scotland's pad.
SSO-Don't worry about triggering feelings in me that may set me back because out of every set back, I become STRONGER.
You didn't though. There are also a lot of people who lurk my thread who could use some help and who knows where that help may come from.
Thinking about what POSOW and WH tell eachother really doesn't hel me and I don't think about it. I frankly don't give a rat's azz what they tell eachother. I know it is a bunch of lies and if my WH decides to continue to live their lie and not come back to the light, that is his problem. I am going to live my life and if WH decides to join me, then I will deal with that at that time. I am fine. I will be GREAT. All's well on the Scotty front(right NOW anyways )
I saw you on Gerk's thread, and just wanted to say that I hear you about noticing DJ's. I never knew what a DJ was until I found MB. Now I see them everywhere. I was very good at them.
I try to keep up w/ your thread, and am very happy you are doing so well.
In his mind you are strong ans settled. She is weak and helpless. Its part of the being needed thing going on with him.
This is a very good point. I saw the same thing in my DH. He was out to be her knight in shining armor since she was getting treated so badly in her custody battle. Nevermind that she was a drunk and irresponsible mother! Makes no sense except to a wayward.
Even though he left the gift behind, it's still on his mind.
You've got the right idea Scottie, NO EXPECTATIONS.
Just so this isn't all about DM doing things that make me mad, I wanted to write about what happened today.
Thursday night, DS7 talked to DM on the phone instead of DS9. DS7 then recounts the story Friday morning while walking with Scooch before school. He says, "daddy wants us to have everything packed tonight." My heart starts beating faster and my stomach sinks. I say, "Oh what for?" He says, "He is taking us hiking tomorrow. So he wants us to have sunscreen and water bottles." I say, "Well, Daddy can provide those for you since he is taking you." DS7 says, "Okay." I expect DS9 to talk to DM last night, but we were out at Clifton Hill and DS9 didn't want to answer the phone.
DM calls at 745am this morning and asks if they have everything ready. DS9 says, "Nope you need to provide the stuff for us since you are taking us." I know DS9 is not supposed to send messages and I didn't ask him to tell him that. He took it upon himself but I am willing to take the 2x4s for it. I just figured I would send DSx2 out this morning with their clothes and shoes that they were wearing and DM would figure out that he would have to provide the stuff. I also was pretty sure that WF would be with DM to pick up the boys so they could ALL go on a hike like one big "happy family." I prepared DSx2 for that just in case. DM pulls up today, and no WF. DSx2 tell me, I didn't look. They leave.
I finish getting ready for work and I start walking to the bus stop. Bus drives by, but it's okay I can walk 5 blocks away and catch another one in 30 minutes. I walk over to 7-11 and just as I get there, I see DM drive out of a parking lot 3 stores away. I don't know if he saw me, but I saw the back of the truck pull out. It was close. That's it.....for now.
You know, I know that people say that Plan B is harder than Plan A. I don't totally disagree but I have to say that there are moments when Plan B feels BETTER. I haven't felt this good in more than 2 years. I have my bad moments but the last 2 years were comprised of ALL bad moments. Thank you MB.
So, my Mom came over yesterday and took us shopping. She keeps mentioning that she is going to leave POSOM("thing"). She is making "plans." I have tried to get her to come on here and post. We'll see.
DS9 has track and field tomorrow. It is going to be fun to watch.
Sure does and a few months shy of the 2 year mark. My Dad told me last week that he was waiting until Aug 6th(ironically POSOW's BDAY ) since that will be 2 years since my Mom left. He didn't tell my Mom though. This timeline is because it is what I told him that DrH says about most A's lasting 2 years after exposure. Well, some of it does stick.
Yep, the 2-year mark is like a brick wall that almost nothing makes it through.
The 6-month mark is a hefty speed bump that knocks out the trannys on any vehicle that's lower to the ground. The few SUV's race on, pointed straight at the wall.
My SIL is nearing the 5 year mark on her A. They are still both "technically" married to their respective spouses but they are "engaged." They have 2 sons together. They both believe the other has "cheated" on the other. My BIL even talks to OM. OM asks for relationship advice from BIL. It is creeptacular.
My SIL is nearing the 5 year mark on her A. They are still both "technically" married to their respective spouses but they are "engaged." They have 2 sons together. They both believe the other has "cheated" on the other. My BIL even talks to OM. OM asks for relationship advice from BIL. It is creeptacular.
It's bizarro even hearing about talks like that. I have MANY examples of things I DON'T want to do, that's for sure.
My SIL just started a job at a coffee shop last night. POSOM said to my BIL, "I am worried about her working at a coffee shop." Ummmmm MAYBE because that is where she met YOU. BIL said, "Well, at least this time the coffee shop is down the street from you and not ME." My friends like hearing my stories about my family and friends. It is true that TRUTH is STRANGER than FICTION. And I am sure there are stranger stories yet.
My BIL's (my sis's H) father had many affairs on his mother. His last affair he ended up leaving the mom and married his AP. AP was also married and divorced her H.
A few months after their wedding, Mom and OW's XH started dating and within a year, THEY got married.....
The affairage partners think they did a wonderful thing because OBVIOUSLY, the other two "belonged" together....
there are rumors CONSTANTLY going on about the OW hooking up with the XH......
Oh, and there were 5 kids total between the two families....... And they ALL have had their share of problems.....especially heavy drug usage......
And the sad thing to me is: My WH actually told me that OW's husband would probably be perfect for me!
Seriously??? The stuff that comes out of the mouth of a wayward is beyond comprehension to me.
I do feel for the OWH. I can see myself talking to him, but the idea of ever talking to him about anything beyond what we would need to talk about to destroy the A is totally bizzare.
That one is pretty strange and definitely right up there. WOW.
You know what the funniest part is?.....
Now, remember BOTH of these couple have been together over 15 yrs., BUT to this day BIL's dads family STILL love and support his mother and can't STAND his wife, OW. They also like OWs XH, moms current H..........
Actually, from what I understand, all the families involved, including the extended families, pretty much dislike FIL and OW, because they ALL know it was their affair that destroyed so many families and children........
Anywho, I'm so glad to hear how well you have been doing. You are handling Plan B remarkably well. I do think though, it's because of your timeline. By the time you found MB, you had been dealing with the A for quite some time. Besides the fact that MB just makes sense, Plan B was a RADICAL change from how the around you deal with A's, which you know how that works......
Usually, the ones who don't like Plan B, are the ones who found MB shortly after Dday. Me, I whined ENDLESSLY to go into Plan B......Mimi wouldn't let me......not until my Plan A had been perfected.....and like vie already said, mine was only 6 days, and it was more to get H to COMMIT to Recovery rather than to end the affair......
Kudos to you Scottie........you done well.......and so have your boys......
Today DS9 had track and field. He came in 3rd in running long jump. 1st in 100m and 2nd in 200m. I am sooooooo PROUD. This means he will be going to city meet for 100m and 200m.
I told him that next year he will be entering all of the events because he thinks he can't do some of them. I told him if he practices than he can get better. If he does it next year and still doesn't want to do the other events then he doesn't have to.
It was a GREAT day out. Hot but there was a breeze. It was fun to cheer on my kiddo.
I see this as a breakdown in Whs ability to be a good Dad because he must realize at some level he is not being a good man. What could be happening is that in the wishy washy wayward thinking world OW is pegging you as to blame.
I am hoping that WH will finally see thru his own Bullchit as he sees what this type of crap is hurting his sons.
Men who care for thier children care for thier children. They don't ask an underdeveloped mind to emotionally deal or agree with selfish acts. Has your WH ever sat them down and told them why he left? Does he feel that they deserve to know? He can't give the flimsy reason that you didn't get along and something like "I just don't love Mommy anymore" will confuse them and scare the crap out of them. When will he stop loving them they will ask themselves.
Thank God for people like you Scotty who live in the real world and protect those innocent boys. You are even protecting your WH at your own expense.
There is, and never will be a good reason based on what a grown up should be acting like for him to do what he has done.
Now if he could only swallow his foolish pride and admit he needs you. Its really the only place he belongs. May God slap him back to reality.
Till then keep on being you Scotty, You rock.. "GURLFREN"
Scotty, I have a copy of a poem that I'm going to print and frame for my son and his little boy for Father's Day. I hope to be able to get a picture of my son and grandson walking hand-in-hand. The picture will be faded out so that the printing will show up better.
You might think of doing something similar for your boys to give their dad for Father's Day.
Here's the poem:
Walk a Little Plainer, Daddy
"Walk a little plainter, Daddy," said a little boy so frail, "I'm following in your footsteps And I don't want to fail. Sometimes your steps are very plain Sometimes they are hard to see, So, walk a littel plainer, Daddy, For you are leading me.
I know that once you walked this way Many years ago And what you did along the way, I'd really like to know, For sometimes when I am tempted, I don't know what to do, So walk a little plainer, Daddy, For I must follow you.
Some day when I'm grown up, You are like I want to be. Then I will have a little boy Who will want to follow me. And I would want to lead him right And help him to be true. So walk a little plainer, Daddy, For we must follow you."
Karma, I haven't heard that song, but I've had this poem for years and years...clipped it out of a newspaper, and the clipping is yellowed, so it's pretty old!
Now that I've thought about it, I'm not sure it would be a good idea for Scotty to print this out for the boys to give their dad...he might think it was manipulative, and I can see why.
LC-Actually, not that I don't value your opinion(cause I MOST definitely do)but I decided that I wasn't going to do that before I read your last post. I normally would have given my WH a Father's Day present, but since I am in Plan B, no present from my kiddos.
DS9 received a response back. WH pretty much said that he IS proud of hm and that he is sorry that DS9 didn't think so.
My Mom was super excited(I can always count on Grandma to be). DS9 talked to her right until bedtime.
DS9 feels better. When he received the response back from my WH, he lit up. It really only bothered me because it hurt my kid. I am sure you all understand how that goes. We never want to see someone we love hurting, especially when there is nothing we can do to make it better. It really surprised me that WH acted that way, but once again it PROVES you guys were right. Proof that my DSx2 would notice that WH is not the same old Daddy he used to be. Even if WH doesn't come back to me, my hope is that he at least comes back to them. ARGH.
We're getting through this. Baby steps. One day at a time.
Well, More trouble for DS7 at school. We will get him through this year, I am CERTAIN. DS7 woke up on Thursday morning, and stated that he had a dream that WH came home. He was sad when he realized it was only a dream. He wouldn't go to school. I wasn't feeling well so my friend came and got him. She literally had to drag him into the school. The principal took his hand, looked at my friend and said, "Nope this won't do. You need to take him back home. I am not going to deal with this again today. He did this yesterday too." She didn't know what to say, so she brought him home to me. Argh. I will be talking to him more about this and I think I am going to be going to someone else to find help for DS7. THis isn't sitting well with me.
So today, it is COLD and raining. We took Scooch out to a park. It was windy but there were some sunny breaks. We were there for almost 2 hours. I had a MOMENT. I was watching the kids play with Scooch and I had a huge smile on my face and I was truly HAPPY. Then I caught myself and I started to cry. It was because I am moving on. I missed WH a little too. But it was more that he was missing out on these moments. Then I thought, TOO BAD FOR HIM.
Definitely get some help for DS7. He is so young and not able to understand his own feelings, poor little guy. I was lucky to find a wonderful counselor for my DDs and they both just love her.
Keep looking until you find one that clicks for DS7. That is so, so important. Too many people just gloss over the kids' feelings in these types of situations - that's why kids end up repeating parent's mistakes and why they makes other ones that they might not make if they had only gotten the help that they needed.
You are a wonderful mother and you quite obviously love those boys so very much. They need to have another outlet, though, besides you. WH isn't going to be of any help to them. They need someone else who can help them sort through their feelings without getting emotional. You are doing a wonderful job!!
It's ok to be happy. I know how you feel, though. I have happy days here and there, more and more. It's sad when I think about it, but it's a good thing. I never thought I could be happy without WH, but I can be. And so can you!!
I cried just the other day, though, because I was suddenly overwhelmed with missing WH. I didn't see the feelings coming - they just happened.
Try not to think about WH. Missing out on the special moments is HIS LOSS and HIS PROBLEM. You rock, Scotty - don't ever forget that!
As hard as my marriage was I still have a hard time emotionally visualizing happy thoughts or future moments without my late wife. Its even more sad because she wasn't capable of loving me back for over ten years before her death.
Im getting better and you are too, in a different way of course but those moments happen to me still and I visualize way back when when she was not emotionally ill. I thank God I still know what love is. Thank God for you too and your connection to that love for your children.
It was more that I was remembering what I used to do for WH. I would always tell him that he needed to be more involved with the kiddos because they are only little once and you want to forge a GREAT relationship with them early because it is a BOND that will last a LIFETIME.
Well, More trouble for DS7 at school. We will get him through this year, I am CERTAIN. DS7 woke up on Thursday morning, and stated that he had a dream that WH came home. He was sad when he realized it was only a dream. He wouldn't go to school. I wasn't feeling well so my friend came and got him. She literally had to drag him into the school. The principal took his hand, looked at my friend and said, "Nope this won't do. You need to take him back home. I am not going to deal with this again today. He did this yesterday too." She didn't know what to say, so she brought him home to me. Argh. I will be talking to him more about this and I think I am going to be going to someone else to find help for DS7. THis isn't sitting well with me.
Hey Scottie. Sorry to hear. As you know, I'm having some issues with TB_8 and how he only wants to sleep in the same bed with TB_11. Maybe the school district has a counselor that can work with your son. Maybe your employer has an EAP (employee assistance program). I am trying different things myself and although I'm not getting emphatic feedback from him that this pertains to Skatt's departure, I know enough to draw that conclusion. It is certainly not much of a leap. I try to focus on the positive for him (and his brother). I try to keep the communication lines as open as possible because the more they talk to me, the better off they'll be. I just try to be there for them in any way they need me. I KNOW you're the same way with your boys. You set a great example for the rest of us trying to adjust to single parenthood.
Originally Posted by Scotland
So today, it is COLD and raining. We took Scooch out to a park. It was windy but there were some sunny breaks. We were there for almost 2 hours. I had a MOMENT. I was watching the kids play with Scooch and I had a huge smile on my face and I was truly HAPPY. Then I caught myself and I started to cry. It was because I am moving on. I missed WH a little too. But it was more that he was missing out on these moments. Then I thought, TOO BAD FOR HIM.
I remember that feeling of moving on. I remember not being prepared for it -- of it just happening. And I can vividly recall the emotions of the occasion. Yes, I can definitely remember making my peace. Sure, it was sad for me, just as it was for you. The loss of WH? I guess you could say that. His loss of his family? You could definitely say THAT.
Scottie, my boys mean the world to me. I cannot fathom the idea of taking action to the point where either one of them wouldn't want to talk to me. To be with me. To teach them and support them and help mold them into decent grown-ups. Your WH has somehow reconciled that disconnect in HIS mind. He has rationalized it. Lots of sadness regarding his situation. The damage he has done to the relationship he had with his boys? Now that's whole 'nother ballgame.
In case I don't get a chance to say it tomorrow, Happy Mother's Day to you, Scottie. You are a great mother and you don't have to wait for your boys to get older for them to realize it. They already know it.
TB-Well you waited a long time to give me that Barbara Walters moment didn't you?
Thanx for that. There is a school counselor but he says that he is there more for bullying at school and that type of thing. I do have access to a person who can point me in the right direction. She is the lady that teaches the positive parenting courses through the Early Years Program I used to attend. She gave me her home phone number, but I think I will still wait til Monday to contact her. There is a lot of resources around, it is just finding the right ones for my kiddo.
Mother's Day is going to be like any old day Sunday here, I have to work. I always forget to take the day off. As soon as I find that Mon-Fri day job, that won't be a problem anymore. Now where is that job fairy? I will put my current job under my pillow and see what I get. HAHAHAHAHA
TB-Well you waited a long time to give me that Barbara Walters moment didn't you?
Well, I like to pace myself. Unlike Babs, I can't go to that well EVERY time -- it would eventually start to lose its effect.....
Glad to hear there are resources available for your son.
Sure, you may have to work tomorrow but don't let that take away from YOU having some time to reflect on all of the great things that YOU do as a mother. Tomorrow is better than any other day to pat yourself on the back and realize that you're not only navigating through a marital situation for which you never prepared, but you've also taken on a larger burden of both raising your boys and managing a household. And doing a darn good job of it. Pretty impressive in my book. Pretty impressive in most of our books....
The principal took his hand, looked at my friend and said, "Nope this won't do. You need to take him back home. I am not going to deal with this again today. He did this yesterday too." She didn't know what to say, so she brought him home to me. Argh. I will be talking to him more about this and I think I am going to be going to someone else to find help for DS7. THis isn't sitting well with me.
EXCUSE me???? He is the principal. He is there to help children. DS7 is only 7 years old for goodness sake!! You need to make an appointment to meet with this person and remind them that this is not about them but your SON. Your son is going through a traumatic experience and his prinicipal doesn't want to be bothered???
If you have to go to the school counselor or go above the principal's head to the school board, DO IT!
That's what my sister and friend told me to do too. They said that the school principal is just lazy and he SHOULD be doing SOMETHING. They said MY responsibility is to get him there. After that, they have to figure it out. I feel like the principal is worn out(it's a tough school). He also just recently went through a divorce. I know that doesn't EXCUSE his actions but it does possibly explain why he isn't up for it. They just don't seem to have the ability to deal with my DS7. I will get him through this. He will be fine. DS7 was definitely a kid who had to be DRAGGED to school everyday in JK. SK, the teacher was a no nonsense teacher and he had little problem with her. If he can exploit weakness, he will. You have to show him that YOU are BOSS and things will be done YOUR way. It is tiring, but it IS possible and gets easier as you are consistent. ARGH.
It is funny though because there is a contest on TV for best teacher and my DS7 always says he wants to nominate his teacher. Funny kid. A lot like WH. HAHAHAHAHA
My DS 26 was one of those kids who had to be dragged to school. His kindergarten experience (lousy teacher who was lazy always had him in time outs and head down on desk grrr) set the stage for him to hate school. He wanted to drop out in kindergarten! My biggest accomplishment in life was getting that boy graduated from high school. He is a lovely adult man now who is still in college LOL! Couldn't get him OUT of school now if I tried.
Hello everyone in Scottie's fan club ! Tomorrow, Mr Pep is packing my 'puter away ... and I don't know when it will be set up again ???
So, for now, I just wanted to say to Scotty, "keep the faith". I am exhausted ... getting ready to move after 22 years in the same house is ... overwhelming. I can still check my iPhone for a little MB reading , but I usually don't like to post from my phone, too mane spelking eroors.
OH Pep. I have missed you. Glad you are holding up well.
I will take you even with the spelking erooors. Especially since you overlook my whole being Canadian thing. HEHEHEHE
I will "keep the faith" and all that. One step at a time.
I ALMOST have Mom ready to read on here. We'll see about getting her to post. She told THING that she will most likely be leaving him. She is sad that she is hurting him though. Just reminded her that she hurt my Dad when she left. Also said that I told her BEFORE she left(pre-MB) that she was going to be hurting someone either way. I told her now that she can't get into a way-back machine, so all she can do is make it right. At least she doesn't seem so depressed anymore and talking about suicidal thoughts like before. Her meds and IC have helped.
I ALMOST have Mom ready to read on here. We'll see about getting her to post. She told THING that she will most likely be leaving him.
This is wonderful news!!!! Does it feel a bit funny being the "teacher" to your parent though???!!......hehehe......way to lead baby!!!!!!
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She is sad that she is hurting him though
As sick as that is, this is a common and normal wayward mentality, and even if the BS does get it/care/understand it, it is true. It is just another consequence the wayward gets for their entitled decisions.........
Great job all around Scotty........
Not2fun
Ps...... .....to Miss Pep......have fun on your new adventure......bring us lots of funny stories and antidotes.....and even a few lessons......
Not-You are losing your touch tonight. I had a hard time reading that for a sec. Got it now though.
I understand her thinking enough right now after having read so much on here. My Dad is gone off to Scotland for the week to put my grandma's ashes with my great-grandma. I hope he has a good time. He will be there for Mother's day. It's touching.
Not-You are losing your touch tonight. I had a hard time reading that for a sec. Got it now though.
Naaaaahhhhh......my lack of speelin, puntatin, gramear, and lack of puter knowledge is legendary around here.......I blame it on my blondness, either that or the chemicals used to get it there.......
Hey, kudos on that thread btw........the force is strong in this one.....
Scotty that is great that your mom may be ready for a MB education. You have handled her well, especially given your current sitch.
I also agree with some of the others that you and your son's principal may need to have a little talk. Just my .02. Breaks my heart to read about the problems he is having now. Like everything else though, you are leading the way showing us how to deal with all sorts of adversities the right way.
By the way, how is that little Scooch of yours doing?
Happy Mother's Day to you. You are doing a wonderful job being a mom AND a dad to your children. You are appreciated!!!
And here's a quote from General George C. Patton for your mother -- "A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week." If she wants back with your Dad, she just needs to DO IT. Stop making excuses. Stop overanalyzing it. If she says she's "not ready" then she hasn't changed her thinking yet. She's still wayward.
Yep, OM will get hurt. We all need to realize the UNTIL our waywards are WILLING to hurt their AP, NOTHING WILL CHANGE. Funny how our waywards didn't hesitate too long to hurt us -- and our children -- and everyone else who supported our families. Spouse and children SHOULD trump AP everyday. Your mom leaving OM will hurt OM. Recovery will HELP and HEAL her spouse, her children, her grandchildren, GOD, etc.
I really believe that God won't take issue if the OM gets hurt... even if the hurt is BAD. Sin HAS consequences.
It's funny. Yesterday when I was talking to my Mom, she was telling me that what my WH did was so much worse because he left me with young children to take care of ALONE. She was crying. I said, "Mom, it's not WORSE. Don't you get this? It's the SAME. You may have grown children, but you leaving Dad hurt me, Scotty-sis, Scotty-bro, Scotty-DSx2, and Scotty-DNx2. We ALL got hurt. You can make it right." I am getting stronger at being able to tell her these things. I just don't know what else to do. I am trying very hard to help nudge her the right way but it is hard talking to her without giving her a good shake. I am ashamed I waited so long too. Oh well, no way-back machine for me either. All I can do no, is try to make it right from here on out.
Update on Scooch. She is a TERROR. Okies, not exactly. She is just your typical Puppy. She chews on EVERYTHING. She is very energetic. We have managed to tucker her out a few times. DS7 finally LOVES her. That's a GREAT feeling.
Thought I'd answer the "House of Casseroles" comment on your thread-hope you don't mind the T/J
When my FXH and were first married (the first time...)he was in the Army and we were stationed in Germany. I never made any casseroles. I HATED them. I had no idea that DH even liked tuna casserole until until my mom visited us so she could meet her first grand daughter (DD24 now) and made one. He was sooo happy to have tuna casserole (complete with crushed potato chips on top).
So, no...I don't make casseroles often. If the boys (FXH, DD18, DD21 want one, they can whip up some Tuna Helper.
Well, today I am missing my WH. Why? Because someone told me a story about him. I didn't know that was where they were going with it and that's why it threw me. I was talking to BIL's GF. She was telling me about BIL's cousin. I guess BIL's cousin ran into WH at Walmart in the city POSOW lives in. I don't know if BIL's cousin knew BEFORE or not. He told BIL that WH had a girl with him. BIL said, "That's WH's new woman." (Okay, I was ANGRY with BIL for saying THAT. I mean COME ON.) So BIL tells his cousin that he hasn't seen POSOW yet. BIL's cousin says, "Well, don't worry, you aren't missing much." I already knew that POSOW wasn't attractive, she is NOT a good person. She doesn't hold a candle to me(I know AFFAIR DOWN), but it IS nice to hear others think the same thing. I was okay last night, but I woke up this morning with a terrible sense of missing WH. I know I will get through this.
I partly ran this morning while going around the track with my friends. I am trying to start the lawnmower but apparently, I don't have enough UMPH. BIL said he would help e. Getting things done alone. It's not so bad.
My BIL's (my sis's H) father had many affairs on his mother. His last affair he ended up leaving the mom and married his AP. AP was also married and divorced her H.
A few months after their wedding, Mom and OW's XH started dating and within a year, THEY got married.....
The affairage partners think they did a wonderful thing because OBVIOUSLY, the other two "belonged" together....
there are rumors CONSTANTLY going on about the OW hooking up with the XH......
Oh, and there were 5 kids total between the two families....... And they ALL have had their share of problems.....especially heavy drug usage......
It's just a sad tale....
Not2fun
I have an even one for you all. Back in the early 80's when my DH was still in HS his brother's wife (BroW) started an affair with his sister's husband (SH) My Husbands other sister caught them together around town and told her mom but it fell on deaf ears. Years later it all came out when BroW kicked brother out. Then DH sister kicked SH out and he moved in with BroW. Sister and SH had 2 kids ages 5&6 and Brother and BroW had 3 kids ages 2,5&6. The A ended after over 5-6 years of living together. Those poor kids were forced to deal with that mess. Sister's son would refuse to go into his Aunts house where his father now lived. What a mess. I guess the silver lining in the whole thing is that eventually SH came out of the fog and apologized many times to SIL and his kids for what he put them through. That was over 10 years ago. At that time DH's sister was diagnosed with MS. She was getting worse but still wanted to live on her own so SH found an apartment next to the police station where he works as a dispatcher. He would check on her every day and helped their daughter take care of her. She finally moved in with daughter, husband and kids a couple of years ago. She is bed ridden and needs to be lifted in and out of bed into her wheel chair. When Daughter needs a break or has an appointment her dad drops everything to take care of his XW and grandkids. He says it is the least he can do for the woman that raised such wonderful kids. He gives her full credit for that. I have never met either of them because by the time I met DH they were living together so I had no need to interact with them. If I ever meet SH I would be fine. BroW on the other hand is a complete beaatch and I have no desire to ever meet her. Even her kids can't stand her. If any of them get married the wedding should be interesting.
Well, I needed to help my new email IM a little today. I asked her to send a message to WH about a bday party that DS7 was invited to on Saturday. It's at Mc D's. I asked her to send this
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WH
DS7 was invited to a birthday party for his friend FRIEND on Saturday. Would you be willing to take DS7 to the party. It is at TIME on Saturday at McD's. I need to get a response so I can let SCOTTY know so she can respond to FRIEND's mom . Thanks!
This is what she sent me back.
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If DS7 wants to go then I will have him there for TIME. Although based on previous emails this is kind of short notice.
DS9 will hang out with me til the party is over I'm assuming at TIME. I will drop them both off then. Please send the present/card with DS7 on Saturday morning.
Please also refrain from spraying them or their toys with perfume.
Thanks
It was a copy and pasted note DIRECTLY from the email with NO FILTERS.
I asked her to please try to filter next time and just send me this instead
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WH says he will take DS7 to the party. Have him bring the card and present with him Saturday morning. He will keep DS9 with him and drop them both off at the regular time.
Oh well, it's not that bad.
Soooooo, about the perfume comment he made, I am GUILTY. I spray their backs, but they don't know. It is just one small spray when I hug them. I DO NOT spray their toys though. Besides, they don't really bring anything with them. I am NOT going to stop either. Tehehehe. I know my kids don't mind. And besides, I shouldn't have found that part out anyways.
I do think it is interesting that every time I send him something through the IM, he send a response with a thing that he wants me to stop doing. Like a little jab. What did my perfume have to do with a party?
I was also imagining(I know I know PLAN B PLAN B) that WF(POSOW) is ALLERGIC to my perfume and she SNEEZES her head off or it gives her a headache. HEHEHEHEHE. Who cares? NOT ME. I will continue with the perfume and I don't give a rats azz what he thinks about it because......HECK just because I DON'T.
LOVE the perfume thing! I do the exact same thing with my hand lotion... I KNOW WH loves it, and so I make sure DS and the car smell really good! It's the little things... hehe
Don't worry, I bought myself the biggest bottle I could last week. It will last FOREVER. Funny thing is, I had stopped wearing it for YEARS. It is my fav and WH's fav. I started wearing it again after he gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. I am happy to spray it on them still.
I do think it is interesting that every time I send him something through the IM, he send a response with a thing that he wants me to stop doing. Like a little jab. What did my perfume have to do with a party?
I was also imagining(I know I know PLAN B PLAN B) that WF(POSOW) is ALLERGIC to my perfume and she SNEEZES her head off or it gives her a headache. HEHEHEHEHE. Who cares? NOT ME. I will continue with the perfume and I don't give a rats azz what he thinks about it because......HECK just because I DON'T.
EVIL GENIUS CLUB is where I got the idea. It was a good little nugget. I am just not stopping it. I made sure to spray it on the backs of their shirts and coats so when they sat in the car, it would be on the seat too. It was just my little reminder. Smell is a great thing to conjure up a memory.
I almost spit my drink out when I read what he wrote! That was darn funny!
Ok, you need to give your IM some ladyclueless lessons on how to filter email. I HOPE it gives OW migraines and she has to spend the day in a dark room furious at WH!
I think that my New Email IM understands now. I sent her a note about what she is to pass on. She meant well. Remember for the REAL WORLD(not MB cult world ) this is COUNTER-INTUITIVE.
WH didn't call the kiddos tonight. The kiddos didn't want to call him though. Oh well, just another day in the life of a wayturd.
Yep, I LOVE to wreck havac on the AP. I know, I know.... It's not about THEM. But, honestly, it FEELS good when you have that knowledge that you did something -- anything -- to mess with them.
Call it a victory for our mental health. Petty? Yeah. But it feels good. And if it pisses them off and causes a rift... well, all the better.
HH-You can most definitely join the evil genius club. All you have to do is come up with things to do to WSs and APs that are EVIL in a GENIUS sort of way. There are a lot of people on these boards in this club. It's a fun club to be a member of. And better yet, you can NEVER be kicked out.
That little gem was probably worth the accidental lapse in PB. Absolutely hilarious!
If your IM needs help or has a question once in a while, just put her in touch with some of us who have been IM's or understand the filtration system. Sometimes it can be challenging to figure out what to pass on or how to respond. Three cheers for your friend for being willing to do this.
That little gem was probably worth the accidental lapse in PB. Absolutely hilarious!
If your IM needs help or has a question once in a while, just put her in touch with some of us who have been IM's or understand the filtration system. Sometimes it can be challenging to figure out what to pass on or how to respond. Three cheers for your friend for being willing to do this.
And sometimes it's hard not to shake the snot out of them for being so stupid you can't believe they remember to breathe.
I love it Scotty, You go girl. Before I went to plan B I used to spray my perfume into WH's underwear drawer over all his underwear.
I used to put on lipstick to fold clothes and put a lip print on my hubby's CLEAN underwear...just in case he was tempted to take 'em off somewhere else. For those whose WH's are still home and who are still having SF with them, planting a big ol' hickey down there is good, too...just in case he's telling OW that he's not having sex with his wife...you want to bust that lil' fantasy!
I agree LC. One thing WH stopped letting me do was hickeys. Oh I was so SILLY before. How didn't I KNOW?
So, on a different topic. I was just talking to my Mom. She was calling me from my Dad's house. She is there to take care of his cat while he is in Scotland. She called me to ask me a question about calling Scotland. Then she mentioned something about my Dad's house being a mess, I said, "Why don't you clean it?" Then I laffed. She laughed too. Then I said, "I was telling my friend that it would be funny if you moved back into Dad's house while he was in Scotland. Then you could be sitting there when he got home." She said, "Scotty, that IS what I am planning on doing. I am moving back home on Sunday." I said, "Really?" Then she told me she was worried about POSOM and she felt bad. I told her not to. I told her that she did this once before and she could do it again.
She said that she now knows that what she is living with POSOM is FAKE. She wants to move back in with my Dad. I told her that I only hope that when WH wants to come home, that he would have someone nudging him home too. That's what my wish is for all of the BSs that want their WSs to come home, a gentle nudger. I asked my Mom if she would post on here now? I am trying. I think I will get HNHN back from my friend and let my Mom read it. She needs to read LB too. Well, one step at a time.
I feel bad that I didn't put as much pressure on the affair BEFORE. That is my one true regret with all of this. I feel like I should have done more sooner. Well, When I KNOW better, I DO better.
Scotty, that is great news. You have been such an inspiration to so many on here and now to have coached your wayward mom into trying to become a FWW is awesome. Good for you.
Maybe you could drop by a little gift -- like a bouquet of flowers, a scented candle, body oil...
OK -- stop me before I get carried away! They're your PARENTS afterall....
And don't feel bad about nudging. She likely wouldn't have picked up on it then even if it was a train barrelling down her throat.
When the wayward is OPEN to recovery, they see ALL the signs... especially the ones that have always been there -- like YOU. You, Scotty, are a LIVING SIGN as to why affairs are WRONG and why she needed to reunite with your Dad.
It does feel good. I am really worried though. I guess that could be completely normal right? I am trying to get her to MB in hopes that they will have a CHANCE, a GREAT CHANCE.
So just got back from a walk with Scooch and the boys. Went to BIL's house. Another affair bit the dust today. BIL's GF has a friend who met her AP while he was still married, she has never been married. Actually, I think he still is. Well, they BROKE UP TODAY. Best news ever. Another one bites the dust. What is sad is that they have 2 children together. I know I have NEVER been happier to see people break up in my ENTIRE life. Usually, it is a sad thing but I couldn't be happier when I find out about AFFAIRS ending. WOOOHOOOOO
Their affair lasted 3 years. More than the 2 years, but to be honest, I think that WH was "cheating" on his OW with his wife and other girls. OW "cheated" too. It's just really sick what happens when people fall in that pit. I am so glad to be on the outside. It is just sick.
I know, RIGHT. I was thinking that too. It seems that people in affairs tend to hang out with eachother too.
My grandma(my Dad's mom) had an affair. She then had an affairage. They were together for 32 years, until my grandma died 2 years ago. Her AP/H died 6 months later. Her POSOM was never really "accepted" but they were together for a long time, albeit not happily.
My grandfather on my mother's side, left my grandmother when my Mom was 14. They moved to Canada. My grandma didn't believe in divorce for religious reasons. My grandfather never filed for divorce, but he "dated" a woman for a long time. I only saw him 3 times. My grandma Plan B'd him for LIFE. He died about 20 years ago.
I stated before there is only one requirement to be a member in the Evil Genius Club. All you have to do is come up with things to do to WSs and APs that are considered genius in an evil sort of way and throws some wrenches in affairs. So anyone can join.
We have been talking about the EPs. She told me that THING was the first man she had ever talked to about her marital problems. Also, she used to drive him home from work. I have talked to her about some of the things she is going to have to do(Other than NC letter, etc since she already knows about this). I told her how she was going to have to get rid of anything that reminds her of THING as this will keep her foggy. She started a new job, but she says it may remind her of THING.
See, at first I was telling her things that my WH would have to do when he came home. Now, I realize that she was making mental notes of the things she would have to do. I am really pushing for her to come on here. I don't know if I can do this without your help.
I guess I get to help guide someone here. I am really worried about all of this for them.
I feel it necessary to stay in Plan A while in Plan B...what does that mean? That means don't do vindictive or mean-spirited actions while you are dark. Remember to act in a way that a loving wife would. Would you spray on perfume after FWH came home? no... he did ask. And in a way I think it might be even more enticing to NOT spray on perfume...then he will be sniffing them when they get in the car...when he detects nothing, he will be sniffing away at their clothes and bags...nothing, or just a hint...
Can you see him 2 weeks from now sniffing the seats of his car for the last remnants of your perfume?
In all your actions do it in love... even the smell front, become totally dark. The POSOW is probably pressuring him to D and he is probably feeding her lines.... The less you are present, the less you become a target for them and they will turn on each other...
So EVIL GENIUS CLUB...work on things at home...changes to make...moving on...doing fun things with the boys they won't stop talking about...
What else this will do for you is keep you from dropping loonies...every time you think of an evil plan, you are thinking of him, and losing love...
Wow, does NO ONE respect the institution of marriage anymore?
Present company excepted, of course.
AARP just published a survey.
Previously, in the 45+ age group, 47% believed that sex with anyone other than your spouse was wrong. The new study lowers that number on the same question to 28%
I spent hours reading most of your thread. I so admire you and it was amazing to me how well you did and continue to do. You are why I finally decided to join and try to get some help of my own from all these wonderful people. Even though our situations are different I actually drew strength from your story and your actions.
I stopped reading around page #150 and now I see you did get your puppy. I guess I better go back and finish reading to find out the rest of the story.
I believe all things happen for a reason. I also believe when God closes one door he opens a better one. He also brings things into our lives or helps us through problems so that we can help others going through the same thing.
Sorry for rambling, I just wanted to send you a quick thank you...LOL...I have a tendency to talk a lot!!!!
Okay, here it is. In a nutshell this is what we have.
My WH lives with POSOW(WF). He goes to work with WF. He deposits his paycheque into the bank account and takes out money for gas, food, truck payments, truck insurance and cell phone. He leaves the rest in there. It is a joint account and it hasn't changed even though he left.
He has not changed his address on anything. ALL of his mail still comes here. Even stuff from his work, the bank and his credit card.
When he writes to the IM, he writes the message to ME. It isn't written to the IM. It is as though he believes I am reading it, or that it is being sent copied and pasted to me.
I was not planning an olive branch for another 6 weeks or so. What is your reasoning on not doing them anymore? It's not that I am not agreeing to not do them, I am just curious as to the reasons to stop.
I am having a hard time dealing with the marital stuff at the moment and am dealing with DS7 and his problems with school. He was sent home again today. It took 45 minutes of kicking, screaming and carrying to get him out. This is NOT fun. Then the vice-principal suggested that my DS7 needed to go to a pediatrician to find out what is wrong. I said, "How are they going to help?" I then said, "I hope you are not suggesting medication." She said, "I am not a doctor." Well, you've got that RIGHT.
DS7 gets to a point where he is pushed to his limit. When he gets there, there is no reasoning with him. The best thing to do is avoid letting him get to the limit. If he passes that magical line, you need to wait it out and let him know that his behaviour is unacceptable. I honestly thought that teachers were more equipped to deal with these kinds of situations. ARGHHHHHHHHH LIFE SUCKS AZZ TOO.
Scotty, do you have the kids in counseling. This may give them an opportunity to express the feelings they have. Counselor may also be able to give you some insight on how to help the kids express their feelings. I believe that your DS is probably acting out from frustration - having the feelings that he has and not knowing why or how to express them. Also he is probably like most kids and feels somehow responsible for the situation, even though it has voiced that he is not. Unfortunately kids take on that responsibility.
It is a horrible circumstance and I feel terrible for you. My DstepKids are having a hard time with this and they are adults.
So my thoughts and prayers are for you and your sweet boys. But I would look into a child counselor/psychologist who specializes in family counseling or maybe something like a big brothers organization that could provide a male mentor for him, someone to do things with and talk to.
My reasoning for no more operation olive branch...at least none in the near future is two fold.
1. I worry about you. You are too exposed to him still via the kids emails. You know too much. Your LB is gonna run dry. The more you reach out without response (at least none you know of) the more damage done to you.
2. The tone is changing from him. I think he is too certain of you. I think he still believes you are his "back up plan", so instead of making waves in the A (and this is my perspective so I could be wrong) you are cementing it.
This is just my opinion, ymmv.
Your DS7...is he getting counseling? Does he have an outlet for his anger and confusion over his dad's betrayal? Is the school aware of what is going on?
I understand you have had some issues with him prior to this but the escalation has got to be related to the trauma. Is there a teacher at school better equipped to deal with him? Or how about if he feels he is reaching his limit you come up with a code word he can say to his teacher so she can give him his space...perhaps be allowed to go for a drink of water or some sort of "time out" that is not seen as punishment but as a means to wind down. Sort of like what they do for some kids with sensory issues, where they have a weighted blanket for those moments when everything is too much. KWIM?
BTW, has your DS7 ever been evaluated for sensory problems? It sounds like he gets overloaded, perhaps by too much stimuli?
When he writes to the IM, he writes the message to ME. It isn't written to the IM. It is as though he believes I am reading it, or that it is being sent copied and pasted to me.
Yep, he thinks you're getting them directly. Make sure you DON'T know that. You know way too much about his living arrangements as it is.
Remember the purposes of Plan B:
1. Separation from your wayward spouse's drama so that you can preserve your love for them. That means you are completely unaware of the life and goings-on of the wayward as much as possible.
2. Give your wayward spouse a taste of what it will be like if you were to be divorced. Meet NONE of your wayward spouse's needs so that the affair partner is forced to meet all of them.
3. Provide a road-map back to a loving marriage for the wayward spouse, with very few, very specific conditions under which you would be willing to accept them back into your life. Typically, these three conditions are: A) That the wayward be willing to consider no-contact-for-life with the affair partner, B) That the wayward commit to complete transparency with the betrayed spouse in everything they do, and C) That the wayward commit to a program of marital recovery with the betrayed spouse, typically the MarriageBuilders home-study course or similar.
4. Prepare yourself for life after the divorce. Once you go into Plan B, you have far less-than-even odds of a successful recovery. It is your last-ditch attempt to negotiate an end to the affair... and if the affair won't end, then the marriage must.
Have you reminded him of the road map through your intermediary?
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What is your reasoning on not doing them anymore?
That's a tough one... usually, Plan B is to go as dark as possible. No contact at all if possible, not even through the intermediaries if it can be avoided. You aren't interested in seeing him in any way unless it is to discuss how he can achieve the three goals you've outlined.
I thought it was odd you were doing the olive branch thing at all, really. Typically, when you go Plan B, you go as dark as possible to the offending spouse. Otherwise, you end up meeting a few little needs here and there, allowing the wayward to continue to cake-eat in some small fashion.
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I am having a hard time dealing with the marital stuff at the moment and am dealing with DS7 and his problems with school.
I hear you. During the fallout from my wife's affair, as recently as January, my oldest daughter began carving a heart into her arm because she hated the idea of "love" when it led to so much screaming in the house. Every time I see the scar, it is a poignant reminder of the profound effect infidelity has on domestic tranquility.
It's hard. Even today, sometimes I have to swallow so much resentment when what I really want to do is let it loose. And then FWW picks up the ball and runs with it for a while in recovery, meeting my needs with remarkable agility, and the resentment fades.
My reasoning for no more operation olive branch...at least none in the near future is two fold.
1. I worry about you. You are too exposed to him still via the kids emails. You know too much. Your LB is gonna run dry. The more you reach out without response (at least none you know of) the more damage done to you.
2. The tone is changing from him. I think he is too certain of you. I think he still believes you are his "back up plan", so instead of making waves in the A (and this is my perspective so I could be wrong) you are cementing it.
This is just my opinion, ymmv.
Your DS7...is he getting counseling? Does he have an outlet for his anger and confusion over his dad's betrayal? Is the school aware of what is going on?
I understand you have had some issues with him prior to this but the escalation has got to be related to the trauma. Is there a teacher at school better equipped to deal with him? Or how about if he feels he is reaching his limit you come up with a code word he can say to his teacher so she can give him his space...perhaps be allowed to go for a drink of water or some sort of "time out" that is not seen as punishment but as a means to wind down. Sort of like what they do for some kids with sensory issues, where they have a weighted blanket for those moments when everything is too much. KWIM?
BTW, has your DS7 ever been evaluated for sensory problems? It sounds like he gets overloaded, perhaps by too much stimuli?
You could check into an occupational therapist evaluating him for sensory processing disorder; then they can develop an intervention plan to help "de-sensitize" and teach him ways to deal with his own sensory overload. I would do that in addition to counseling. JMHO
You could check into an occupational therapist evaluating him for sensory processing disorder; then they can develop an intervention plan to help "de-sensitize" and teach him ways to deal with his own sensory overload. I would do that in addition to counseling. JMHO
Exactly and if he is diagnosed you can get him an IEP or whatever it is your schools have to protect him and make sure his needs are met at school.
Don't worry about me. I just needed some time to process things. I am upset by a lot of things. The least of which were your posts. It's sucky. Oh, that killed. My WH used to call me his "sucky" and when I just wrote it now.......well. Don't worry. I needed to take a break. I had to work too. It just sucks to feel this way again. I am really upset by all of it again. It's okay though because I know that behind the tears comes strength from growth. I am also a little mad that my parents can do it. Well, I am gonna just plow through. One day at a time, one moment at a time. I can get through this again.
I hate that this weekend should be a time for me to celebrate. My Dad comes home safely from Scotland. My Mom moves back in and they try to reconcile. Instead, I am dealing with my son and I am at a loss. I WILL NOT medicate him, he doesn't need that. I believe that sometimes some teachers just want to not deal with problem children and they just want to medicate. That is not necessary for him. Others kids surely might need it. I feel like the medication of children is happening way more often than necessary.
So, also, this morning DS9 said he wanted to write WH an email and me not to read it before he sent it. Well, I am sad to say that I was curious so I did read it. It pretty much told my WH that he wants him to come home and that if he thought this was a good idea, he was wrong.
I logged onto my bank account last night and I saw that WH has now opened 2 new accounts. I don't know why I can see them. I am not really surprised. I am surprised by the emotions it has evoked in me today. It has added to the feelings I already experiencing. Then it was a horrible day at work. Well, the good things about bad days is......THEY END.
This is one of the most trying parts when your spouse upsets your children. They act out. Because many of the diagnosis start to get handed out about our children and we can honestly reflect back to when they were not put under such pressure emotionally. It is infuriating, But just like we could end up with such a diagnosis after being abused over time its important to take such news as part of being human and the best way for the layman to help, not cure nessesarily, the symptoms or the root cause of the problem. The knowledge that we would or could react the same way if put in simalar circumstances helps us to have mercy on our child or significant other. We all have a breaking point. A truly concerned and professional counselor will be able to help your Son through this time without treating his emotional pain with medication I pray. But don't sell that option short on merit, or believe that the treatment somehow dooms your son to medication for the rest of his life.
I doubt you would take the lazy road in your childs development and will help him get the emotional and mental tools he needs to help him deal. You allready know him well Mom, you are his comfort and will continue to be. Medication might help him thru this time, I hope it is not nessesary and you know best of course but its nothing to be ashamed of, especially with small children who havn't developed thier frontal lobe enough to think things through but still feel the pain of rejection and the frustration of not being able to do anything about it.
I have allways been susceptable to depression and my father didn't help much when I was a kid. Now that my wife has passed I have slipped into a slump that I can only referance to childhood depression. I thought I had that whipped a long time ago and had been able to fight through those old feelings for many years. Dissmissing them as hogwash and thinking positive but they are back 35 years later.
From what I gather this is common for people with depression that they can slip into it because of life events, health, etc.. I am going to ask my Shrink for Anti-Ds and expect them to pull me out of this slump. Its just temporary I hope but I am sick of feeling this way and am willing to get help. Believe me when I say that if you knew me years ago you would never believe I would end up being the Sadsack I live like now.
My children realy don't understand because although they see me as tough as nails and tender with them as an old softy and I need to shake it off. For me first I guess but definatly for them. I don't believe medication is my answer but it can be a crutch until I can walk again. I am still that little Kid inside wanting a relationship with my father. I had one with my heavenly father and untill I feel Him in my life again I need help coping. But remember its about feeling not just head knowledge.
I pray you find a way to help your Son in the most positive and uplifting way for the little guy. As you know he deserves the best.
Well, I finally got out of DS7 what led up to his "meltdown" at school yesterday. They were having this charity raising thing where they had to skip rope. DS7 has not ever skipped rope and didn't know how. He was nervous that he would make a fool out of himself. He refused to participate and was just standing there. The teacher tried to MAKE him skip. He wouldn't. Then the principal tried to make him. Then they called me. I remember times when I was a kid that there was a kid who wouldn't do something. The teachers just told us to ignore the kid and do what we were doing. Don't they do that anymore? Is everyone supposed to be a cookie cutter of a person and act the same? If so, my kiddo is gonna have problems for a LONG time.
I am behind you then if you do not think medication is an answer. I pray you can get the school to help work a plan to help him deal. Sounds like they don't have a clue and/or they think you don't either. Hope you can work it out with them.
I hate medication too. Almost like if God wanted us to take pills he woulda... I believe that your Son can be helped without meds, its just so Sad that teachers are not what they used to be and that the ones who could help have thier hands tied. The education system sucks.
There is a bumper sticker I agree with.
"They took God out of the schools and now our jails are full"
I remember when science complimented a loving God who created everything including science for us. Now we are told in our minds that we are to think of ourselves as an accident of nature and God is a superstition used by religiuos leaders to control us. Funny Ive allways been insired by love and enslaved by fear. I also pretty much fought against the powers that enslaved.
OK Scotty in any event Hugs to you and DS7, DS9 and scootch.
Well, I finally got out of DS7 what led up to his "meltdown" at school yesterday. They were having this charity raising thing where they had to skip rope. DS7 has not ever skipped rope and didn't know how. He was nervous that he would make a fool out of himself. He refused to participate and was just standing there. The teacher tried to MAKE him skip. He wouldn't. Then the principal tried to make him. Then they called me. I remember times when I was a kid that there was a kid who wouldn't do something. The teachers just told us to ignore the kid and do what we were doing. Don't they do that anymore? Is everyone supposed to be a cookie cutter of a person and act the same? If so, my kiddo is gonna have problems for a LONG time.
God bless the little guy.
Freakin stupid teachers.
Well it makes sense . His mom is the only one who can make him do anything right? That cuz she loves him
Though I do agree that from what you are describing Scotty she does not want to "deal" with your son. There are so many options in order to help a kid with what you are describing. Many people have posted good ideas for you.
Also, is the teacher aware of your sitch? Sometimes a little information is helpful to the teacher to understand some of the issues.
Just a thought. I know knowing things that were going on with my students allowed me to be more compassionate when they were highly stressed. It can't hurt.
I used to teach 7 year olds at church. I had some pretty strong willed children in my class. At the same time, they all craved approval. One boy couldn't sit still. The lesson was about the ten commandments. So I had them all do push ups as I read the commandments out of the scriptures to them. They settled down after that for the day. Another time, I had a little social butterfly couldn't stop chattering. I had her come up and stand beside me and share with the class all the things in her life she was grateful for (I kept a gratitude journal in my bag of tricks.) Then they all wanted to share.
I'm relieved that this incident wasn't actually organic from your son, but rather a problem with the school system your son is forced to endure. I'm sorry your son doesn't have a teacher with a little more creativity in her.
However, how many times as adults do we have to "skip rope" when we don't know how?
There are always new things we have to do and try and risk that people will make fun of us (or fire us) if we don't measure up to their standards.
I remember the first time I was assigned to make phone calls to a whole bunch of people I didn't know who were volunteers for the organization I worked for - and introduce myself and ask if there was anything I could do for them. That was something I did not want to do at all. Guess what I do for a living now? I work in a call center! (and there are days I still don't want to dial!)
Since your son is feeling that everything is rather punitive on him right now, could you set up a reward system planned in advance for every act of courage he can tell you about in his day? Every time he says "okay" when someone in charge of him asks him to do something he doesn't want to do. The scarier the deed, the bigger the reward and recognition from you?
On the days when he gets out of hand, try doing something physically active and make sure the food you serve has no sugar or white carbs. Sometimes these strong-willed children do better with good exercise and nutrition and don't need the medication the school system seems to encourage.
No-sugar/soda in the diet would do more than Ritalin for most ADHD children!
Get to know the teachers in the next grade up as the school year ends and pay more attention to those teachers your son might have next year. Interview the parents - which teacher did the best job at managing strong willed children and keeping the class engaged and in the learning process. Pick your son's teacher yourself - it may make all the difference, and form a pact with that teacher at the beginning of the year in a way that will help your son get through his challenges.
Let the principal know that you want more hands-on involvement in your son's education so that she has less trouble with him next year.
Poor little DS7, I would be afraid of looking like a fool too! I agree with no medication. My friends son was very hyper and could not sit still. She got her son assigned to a classroom where the teacher was creative with active kids, especially boys. She allowed them to stand during lessons if that is what they need. She gave them loads of hands on activities and plenty of exercise. Her son excelled in that class when in first grade he spent the whole school year being punished.
Some teachers do not like boys. My DS 26 had some horrible elementary school teachers who made it clear they did not like boys. Then there was the wonderful teacher who instead of telling me DS talked too much told me she just couldn't find anyone he did not like! She was a peach.
ok scotty i know i don't comment too often but i wanted to tell you, from what you described about your son i don't think there is a medical reason for him to be on medication.
I am qualified to make that assessment but as i said i am only reading what you write and part of the assessment for the need of medication is the parents perception of the child and how he interacts at home with activities and other kids... including homework, video games, sports, chores... ect.... so at anyrate please don't let anyone bully you into having to make your son take meds. It's a way to quick fix and not solve the underlying problem in some kids.
My DS did the charity raising jump rope thing too a few weeks ago....he was freaking out too cuz he never jumped rope before and when they practiced in class he stunk at it. My son is good at a lot of things, but he is very uncoordinated and I figured jumping rope wouldnt be his thing.
I think it was stupid they made a big scene about it...I dont think they would have done that at my sons school, IDK I think they made it worse...I mean some kids just are not coordinated.
I could NEVER do any gymnastics and they always just had me run around the gym instead of torturing me to do something I just never would be able to do. They should have done something like that...My mom may have written a note to the gym teacher to do that though. She thought it was stupid for them to make me do gymnastics...
I am with the no medication too. I think in general it is sooo hard for boys to sit still like that all day, my DS teacher when she notices they get restless opens the class door and lets the kids take a short run outside (of course weather permitting). Shes always done it so there is probably some good that comes out of it. I mean these kids are so young and nowadays they just seem to work work work....
6 1/2 hours with just 45 minutes for lunch and recess, no other break, unless the teacher decides to put some fun stuff in, and some dont. Too Much IMHO. Sorry I guess i babbled.
Exactly STB4, it's not that if my son needed it, I wouldn't want him to have the meds. I just don't want that to be the quick fix. It's not that my son is an angel at home and horrible at school. He has his moments here too. He has more of a problem when things aren't going his way. That's always been him. It's not the only thing he got from WH. He looks and acts like him. My WH had problems dealing with him too because he always said, "He's supposed to listen to me, I'm the adult." I went to positive parenting classes and the teacher was AMAZING. I used a lot of the techniques here and WH would use them after he saw how they worked. DS7 does have his moments. I just have to stay firm, give him time limits and tell him there will be consequences if it is not followed. You have to show him that your will is stronger.
I have to go talk to the principal on Monday morning before DS7 goes to class. I am anxious about it. My friend, who went to school for youth counselor said she would come with me. This principal will be moving schools and unfortunately, there is only one class per grade in this school. It is really small. We will see what happens on Monday.
Not that I am supposed to know stuff about my WH but I did find out something today. My friend took her daughter to that party at McDonald's where DS7 was going. She said, "Your WH wouldn't even look at any of us." Wayturds.
BTW, I think I answered this before but I did talk to the teachers and principal about our sitch at home. They know all about it. I have actually witnessed times when my DS7 would get in trouble for doing things that others were also doing. I also have seen the teacher show favouritism to other students. I don't need my kid to be the favourite, just not treated like the worst child in the world. A couple of my friends also have strong willed children and when they had this teacher in grade 1 the MEDS came up. Their doctors LAFFED. Also, in grade 2, their teachers said they weren't children with problems at all. Dunno, I will help DS7 through this. School's almost out for the summer. Just over a month left.
Scotty, I also agree that the school didn't handle that situation very well at all. I am also against the 'quick-fix' of putting kids on medication. That being said, my DS10 is on medication, and it does help him greatly.
I'm certainly not trying to convince you one way or the other as I am no expert. My son has had quite a bit of evaluation and we did get him some extra help through our school. Pinky and I worked closely with medical folks, the principal, and most importantly, DS10's teachers. They have been great and he is doing very well. Nobody knows your kid like you do, so do what you think is best.
I would recommend to have him evaluated anyway if you can. Just for a professional opinion and your own peace of mind. I wouldn't fear that the medical professionals are going to be so quick to prescribe meds. Let them know from the start that you are not in favor of it. If there is an underlying issue I think you would want to know so that you are armed with information to deal with it.
We have a teacher at our school that has a rep for not liking girls...a friend of mines daughter was in her class in first grade and the daughter is very very shy....the teacher told my friend that she thought she should get her checked out because there is something "seriously" wrong with her because she doesnt fool around and talk like the other kids in class and when she is asked a question she answers very quietly.
My friend said her H was like that too, so she didnt listen to the teacher. She is just a shy little girl, she has friends and does well in school and no other teacher has ever said anything since...they all say she is sweet.
My point is since when is being shy a "serious" problem...its just ridiculous nowadays.
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, but when they lit a fire in the craft, it sank - proving once and for all that you can't have your kayak and heat it, too.
A preacher was walking down the street when he notices a little boy trying to ring the doorbell but it's just out of his reach. he watches his efforts for some time and walks over to press the the bell. After he pressed it he leveled down to the boy and asked' "Now what?" to which the boy turned and shouted, "NOW WE RUN!!"
An old man lived alone in Idaho. He wanted to spade his potato garden, but it was very hard work. His only son, Bubba, who used to help him, was in prison. The old man wrote a letter to his son and described his predicament.
Dear Bubba: I am feeling pretty bad because it looks like I won't be able to plant my potato garden this year. I'm just getting too old to be digging up a garden plot. If you were here, all my troubles would be over. I know you would dig the plot for me.
Love, Dad
A few days later, he received a letter from his son.
Dear Dad: For heaven's sake, Dad, don't dig up that garden. That's where I buried the BODIES. Love, Bubba
At 4 a.m. the next morning, FBI agents and local Police showed up and dug up the entire area without finding any bodies. They apologized to the old man and left. That same day, the old man received another letter from his son.
Dear Dad: Go ahead and plant the potatoes now. It's the best I could do under the circumstances. Love, Bubba
Okay, so I had my meeting with the principal and teacher today. It was an hour long. I cried a lot. I talked about my feelings and what the teacher/vice-principal said Friday. Then the principal said, "Oh no, we wouldn't have said anything about meds. This isn't something that can be helped through medication. I think counseling is probably the best solution although he may not talk to the counselor anyways." DS7 is not allowed on the school trips for the rest of the year though because the principal said that it is something that is now causing a safety issue outside of the school. I agreed that would be best and that we would tell DS7 that it was a consequence of his actions up until this point.
I had to tell the teacher some things that she didn't agree with but that other parents have also said. She was defending herself as I would hope, but I don't think she sees it. I had my peace. I hope she takes something out of it.
The good thing is that the principal and teacher told me that DS7 is GREAT 95% of the time. It is just that 5% that they want taken care of. I expressed that I felt like they wanted me to control his behaviour at school and I wouldn't be able to do that. They agreed and said that they just wanted me to know that he would be spending a lot of time in the principal's office doing nothing. I said that I didn't like it but I would be okay with it if that was what they had decided. I told the that they had to find DS7's currency. They then need to set time limits for him to get things done as he follows leadership better when he is set time limits.
I am calling the counseling today and finding out when I can get him in. He will probably spend some of his time just sitting there. We will see. ARGH
That's my update. Sucks about the school trips but I agree that they have to worry about a safety issue. I feel better about this stuff anyways.
I am glad you got to say you wanted to say and that you are feeling better....I am not crazy about DS principal and a lot of other parents feel the same...at least you got to say your piece, whether they listen or not. If he is good 95% of the time, goodness that sounds great to me. He will be fine, you are handling it well and you are a great mom.
Scotty, I'm inclined to agree with FF about stopping the "olive branches"; however, if you still want to offer them, I would stretch out the time between them.
I do think that your WH may be somewhat complacent about your still being there for whenever he gets ready to come home, and this could mean that he stays with OW longer. In addition to the possibility that he thinks you are reading his emails, he may even think that you are telling the boys to ask him to come home.
I think I've suggested this to you before. I think it would be a really good idea to get all dressed up and go somewhere without the boys every now and then. I really think you need to shake up any thought he might have of you sitting at home, patiently waiting for him to come back. I'm not suggesting that you do anything inappropriate, but waywards seem to HATE the idea that their BS might actually be having a life that doesn't involve waiting around on their WS. You can bet that the boys will let him know that mommy goes places without them on occasion.
I used to pretend that I was going out on the town when my WH was supposedly at the deer camp. All I really did was to get all dressed up and make an appearance at the local bar, drink half a drink and then be in a rush to go meet friends in a nearby city. Then, I would simply go home, park behind the house, and not answer the phone if it rang.
It didn't take long for my WH to try and arrange things so that I would have to stay home!
Just talked to my Dad. He made it home safely(there were a lot of flight cancellations due to the volcanic ash). My Dad just taught me a good word that I am going to use for WH now. His new name is Bampot. Love it.
LC, it's funny that you mentioned this now. I was thining about doing this. I am going to take up some of my friends offers and even my Mom(now that she is home with my Dad) to watch the kids for me for a couple of hours on Wednesday nights. Then I will dress up and go to the coffee shop or something with a female friend of mine. I am not doing it for the effect it will give to WH, because I WON'T KNOW(you know the whole PLAN B and ALL ). I need some time to unwind sometimes. I spend most of my days cleaning the house and walking/shopping with my friends. I need to find some time when I have some time to just veg and unwind
Yes, Yes...Scotty, you definitely need some Me time.. "you" time, you know what I mean....as much as you possibly can, it is soooo important right now, really. Go to the movies or dinner with friends, plan some stuff. Dressing up and going out makes such a difference.
Oh and the alone time too. Take a nice bubble bath, do a mani and pedi...watch a movie that you like....Thats what I do when WH has DS. WH never liked scary movies, now i watch them all the time.
Well, when WH has DSx2, I am at work. The only other "time" I have is when they are at school. They are in school all day. I work Wednesdays and Thursdays though, so that leaves me Mon, Tues and Fri. I usually catch up on laundry and house work.
I don't take bubble baths. I can go watch a movie though and read at the library or a park.
When he writes to the IM, he writes the message to ME. It isn't written to the IM. It is as though he believes I am reading it, or that it is being sent copied and pasted to me.
I was not planning an olive branch for another 6 weeks or so. What is your reasoning on not doing them anymore? It's not that I am not agreeing to not do them, I am just curious as to the reasons to stop.
Hey Scotty, I just popped in and saw this part so maybe I missed the whole background, but generally speaking, the WS should get about ONE outreach after a year has passed. Anything more than that is a breach of Plan B that sends the message to the WS that you aren't really serious.
Additionally, this message should come through the IM at HER discretion, not yours. You should not know about it at all. The IM should do this when she thinks it is warranted. Even then it should be a RARE, RARE thing. 2x tops over the 2 year period.
Also, is your IM sending you his actual messages? How do you know he is writing to you and not the IM?
This is my new email IM(sister of my original IM). I don't think she understood that she was supposed to filter it. I showed her how to filter it after she sent me that entire message. I think it will be fixed now.
I have decided to stop doing the olive branch thing.
FF-My Mom is home with my Dad. I haven't had a chance to talk to my Dad about it yet though. Mom has not written the NC letter yet. I told her about it on Friday. I am going to ask her about it again. She is of course still full of wayward thinking. She has talked to me about the things that she will not put up with from my Dad. If he does these things, she will leave. I told her that she needs to also tell my Dad what she is going to change so this doesn't happen again.
She hasn't even finished reading SAA yet. I am going to ask her to finish it. I am also going to get her to read HNHN and LB. I am trying to get her to come post on here. FINGERS CROSSED.
Prayers going up for both of your parents. Once she is completely NC and goes through withdrawl (you need to get your dad to read SAA and understand about withdrawl) hopefully the entitlement will disappear.
Hey Scotty, I just popped in and saw this part so maybe I missed the whole background, but generally speaking, the WS should get about ONE outreach after a year has passed. Anything more than that is a breach of Plan B that sends the message to the WS that you aren't really serious.
Additionally, this message should come through the IM at HER discretion, not yours. You should not know about it at all. The IM should do this when she thinks it is warranted. Even then it should be a RARE, RARE thing. 2x tops over the 2 year period.
Boy, this makes sense on so many levels Mel.
What do you think? Should Scotty be thinking about moving on? I don't mean giving up on the marriage. I mean thinking about what she might be having to deal with and trying to see positive possibilities in the future. I don't remember if you see a therapist Scotty but maybe its time to start to work on letting go He might not ever get his poop together and you are an awesome young lady who deserves to be happy.
Maybe if she stops caring the numbskull will sense it. I just wanna see Scotty get the respect she deserves . She certainly is giving him it.
Sorry Scotty having a moment about this. You can ignore me and tell me your OK as much as you want I will go along with you for posterity but I will still worry. That said. another question here..
How deeply should the Ims understand MB concepts and what they are supposed to be looking for in communication? To me the perfect IM would be someone who knew the family personally but was also involved with MB and/or ahd been to a seminar, read some books, used the questionaries. Even better someone who had some depth of undertanding as to how the wayward mind works.
To me it would also need to be a couple who have a healthy marrige and understand the rules.
Scotty my sincerest hopes for you that WH eventually comes home and you smack him sqaure in the nose, and he takes it like a man. Then let the healing begin!!
SSO-I have been trying to move on, looking at the positives that could come out of life without WH. That is pretty much my PLAN. I am NOT giving up on the marriage.
Now about the Olive Branches, I am not going to do anymore. I had done them because they were suggested to me. I would have kept PITCH BLACK DARK. When it was suggested to me, I even remember having read something that DrH wrote about having small breaks in Plan B. I wish I could find what it was that I was reading. ARGH. Well, I will keep looking.
I had also read other people's threads and they had breaks in their Plan B and still recovered. I was wondering if that was part of the reason they recovered. That was where my mindset was at that time.
Yes, Dr. H has suggested (I think through the IM's an occasional note saying the BS still would like to recover the M) and I believe SH has had other posters do a peek out from Plan B when he feels the WS needs to know the BS still wants the M.
My worry for you was for your health. I think you have done an excellent job thus far, scotty. We just want a happy, healthy scotty.
bampotn. a crazy person; a fool or dolt. Subjects: Scots, Scotland Etymological Note: Most likely a form of barmpot. According to OED, barm, �the froth that forms on top of fermenting malt liquors; the head of a beer,� is used attributively as a formative to indicate a crazy or feeble-minded person or idea. This is, obviously, related to barmy or balmy �crazy.� Thanks to Michael Quinion for the tip on bampot�s etymology. Probably not related to the Irish Gaelic bambairne �dolt, stupid person, lout.� In �Some Modern Irish loanwords describing people� (Celtica vol. 18, p. 53, 1986, School of Celtic Studies, Dublin) M�che�l � Siadhail connects bambairne to the old Spanish slang bambarria, which, according to the Velasquez Spanish and English Dictionary (1985, New Win Publishing) means �a fool; an idiot.� Bambarria is glossed as �blockhead� in Carnoy, Albert. �Apophony and Rhyme Words in Vulgar Latin Onomatopoeias. American Journ. of Philology. vol. 38, no. 3. (1917)
My new name for WH. I was using Pep's DM(Dorkus-Maximus). My Dad came home from Scotland and told me about the word. I decided that since my name on here is Scotland, it would be appropriate.
Hahhaah what a great name for him, Scotty! And glad to hear you are being so strong and doing well. It's people like you that I look to for inspiration!
Actually, I feel weak A LOT. I have had moments where I looked at WH. I have thought about writing to him. I do keep a Plan B journal for him and when I really want to contact him, I write him a letter in notepad and save it onto my desktop. It is just my way of getting my feelings out that I want to say to him. I used to write to him all of the time when he was still here. He stopped reading them about a year ago. Now I know why. I already KNEW this was going to be a long haul. I knew when I went into Plan B, that I was ready to go until my end date. I have stated before that I am keeping it to myself though, so I can change it if I want to.
Well, I did get a little chance to talk to Dad yesterday. Mom is VERY WAYWARD. She WILL NOT write a NC letter. She says there is noting there between her and POSOM anymore. I told her that didn't matter. She says she still needs to talk to him to get some loose ends tied up. SHE REFUSES to come on here. I TRIED. I even offered to set up the account for her and help her log on. I told her she could come to my house(they don't have the internet there).
Dad is getting used to living with someone again. They are getting PLENTY of UA time, so that's at least a step in the right direction. They even sleep in the same bed every night, which they hadn't done in probably close to 15 years. My Dad says it is because they got rid of the couch so he has no where else to sleep. I'm not asking about anything else in that regard, they ARE my PARENTS.
Been taking care of the house. Did a lot of outside work today. Almost killed myself when I used the electric hedge clippers and cut the cord with them. OOPS
All else quiet on the Bampot front. Just the way I like it.
I really admire your strength Scotty... it's been amazing to watch you grow and see you now give advice that is spot on to others. Just amazing. Keep it up girlfriend!
Thanx PM. That pickle jar is growing at a much SLOWER rate. I don't count the things on here, just because I need this place. DSx2 feel like they are the "Daddy's in a pickle jar police." They say, "Mommy you thought about Daddy today. That's one LOONIE," and then they put it in. They also make sure we spend them too.
It's funny. I didn't even realize I had grown until I re-read my thread a few days ago. I wanna SMACK that old Scotty. Glad she(Oh NOOOOOO now I am talking in 3rd person) had such wonderful people guiding her. THANK YOU(I don't think I have said that in a while).
You mean I'm not supposed to be talking in the third person to myself?, or my evil twin?
Oh Man the "Daddys in the pickle Jar Police" one is a doosey. MeThinks.
I wonder what Mom is afraid of and why she won't come to the site? Does she think she will be crucified for going Wayward? It should be made clear that although thier are ppl here that will be hard on her while understanding how people can screw up....
and lets not forget those who will be hard and just wanna be the marriage police, (Not that thats a totally bad thing mind you), that might not want to admit that they too could have fallen given the right circumstances and are just cruel with nothing but critisizm and no desire to support.
..In the long run the founder of MB and the spirit of this site is to help her heal from the suffering and confusion she is now experiencing and she can trust that authority and the spirit behind it is love.
If she can get here first then maybe as she opens up her thinking to MB she will realize how much she can heal and also will be able to help your Dad connect to. But you know that anyways and Im preachin to the choir.
Here is an observation I have made through the years that I will share with you and along with an attempt to help you if it applies and I would love feedback.
When someone is suffering from wrong thinking that is destructive such as drug abuse, sex addiction, or just about anything that they feel compelled to involve themselves in out of fear and they hit a brick wall that causes them to really look at themselves they ussually don't like what they see at first,(well duh thats why they were running to begin with). After being forced to look at themselves for awhile hopefully they come to a place where they realize thier own evaluation of themselves is flawed and has gotten them into all this trouble to begin with. ..They really don't know what they needed and many of the thoughts and things they surrounded themselves with that they thought/felt were keeping them safe/loved were just vain imaginations.
This can be something that effects people of all types at different times in thier lives and does not just represent the chronically mentally /emotionally ill. Revelations are a life long process as long as we are seekers. Its our nature to seek a better life. Its the boudaries within we set for ourselves that protect us.
So... What happens many times that on that precipice we find ourselves where we understand we need to change while we are so afraid and alone that we suffer but its only the false securities we think/feel we have lost that cause the suffering because it, (lets use a false sense of value through material gain as an example),....it=money and its unhealthy sublimation of self-worth reguarding ourselves that is lost. But it was quite a habit, distraction, enabeler of us to get out of balance and gave us a way to escape how scary and alone we really are.
We see the extremes when people fall really hard but this type of behavior is present in all of us as we come to the realization that we are ultimatly seeking safety and approval from a source outside of ourselves. Call it a belief system which we think if we act in a certain way we can expect certain results and are willing to accept that deal, or on a larger scale we seek some form of guidance and love from an authority that will love us in this decreped human state we find ourselves in. The depth of our desparation is ussually related to our awareness or how painful our circumatances we are in are at the time.
This inner seeking depending on the seriuosness of our need for change can cause us to run away in fear or embrace God depending on our depth of trust we have in Him. Most of the time we only go as far as we have to untill the pain is gone. Many times we understand why we came to the unhealthy and now painful place we find ourselves in and we stop short of dealing with the emotional forces within ourselves that still have residance in us and bury them, allowing the power of those emotions to live as we hide.
Sometimes we can see how we have been duped into not taking care of ourselves and the way to help others becomes a distraction to our own healing process. Somehow if we can get others healed first or if they can join the club...
I saw this in my own wives journey as she knew more about how much God loved us all but very unwilling to seek out her own fears that drove her to self-abuse and outrageous behavior. She was saved and gave her life to saving others while ignoring issues that caused pain to the closest ppl in her life.
I have seen also that when she failed to save her Mom and Dad or when she failed to change others around her her own faith suffered. It was a constant issue with me and whn she would get depressed i would tell her she was doing all anyone could and encouraged her to find out why it was so important that she help them her popular dodge was,, "Thats what God wants me to do" I would argue "God wants you to love yourself first, charity begins at home, we all need you healthy, love yourself first". Followed with a list of the sacrifices she has made for everyone she had known and how she had earned the right to separate her self-worth from the problems others suffered by thier own choices and that God was able to take care of them.
But that was the problem in her case she was not able to really accept that she was OK unless she was performing. She was conditioned that way as a child. She knew that but wrapped up in the hope of redemtion she preached it to others without ever really experiencing it for more than a small period of time and put herself on a mission of convincing others as the proof within herself that it was true, that God loved her more than she would ever know in this human body because we are all damaged goods. Our understanding of ourselves and our value is flawed and allways will be. As unfair as life can be to us it is never an excuse to abuse ourselves and others and our first responsibility is to love ourselves as God loves us and see ourselves as he does, spiritually he sees us
Isaiah 1:6 From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
But he loves us weak humans enough to teach us to love one another in healthy ways and as we submit ourselves to the truth that we have emotional issues that we cannot repair without the help of others and the willingness to seek within ourselves whatever false beliefs we have accepted that hurt us and the ones closest to us.
All that just to state one thing for Scotty.. MB works on so many different levels to heal us. One of the most important ones is the realization we come to when we realize it our own choices and behavior that has gotten us where we are and that loving someone and caring for thier needs is something we do with the strength of hope and expectation that it will be returned. When human beings fail to love us we are forced to seek God and those who agrree with Him to care for us. Not really a surprise when we realize God is the author of love.
So we will probably get closer to God and be stronger whether our marriage gets healed or not. If it gets healed we will be thanking God for it most likely.
I am praying that your Mom and Dad can humble themselves to learn from thier daughters example. After all they probably have allways wanted the best for you. Its every parents hope that thier children will have a better life than thiers or at least that they provide a solid physical and moral/spiritual foundation that will serve them well.
Judging by the kind of individual you are Scotty I think they succeeded, and now you can help them with the strength you have recieved from MB and the many awesome and wise here.
Remember though that the intentions your parents started out with somehow got mislead into behavior that has caused them to make a mess out of thier own lives. Although you posess these tools now and are seeking to help them you must practice them first. Thier recovery depends on them and you know that but if thier issues get in the way of your own emotional health not only will you be jepordizing yourself, but your marriage, the kids emotional well-being and those dreams your parents had for you to have a happy life.
With the limited knowledge of what a good character you posess I can only believe that it came from your parents and how they raised you. I am sure Dad and Mom would not want to have anything to do with hurting you even if they can't see the way themselves.
Parents seldom listen to thier childrens advice. It takes a humble person to be corrected by thier child. Even Jesus couldn't teach in his home town because they all saw him as "that carpenters son"
Again I have made this long post because I hoped i could contribute to the health and well-being of Scotty. Take from it what works and ignore whatever assumptions or mislead worries I have expressed.
You are doing well and are gonna rise above so much Scotty. Have a great weekend
It's funny. I didn't even realize I had grown until I re-read my thread a few days ago. I wanna SMACK that old Scotty. Glad she(Oh NOOOOOO now I am talking in 3rd person) had such wonderful people guiding her. THANK YOU(I don't think I have said that in a while).
{{{{Scotty}}}}},
Naaaaaa, don't smack her......
Oh yes, how you have grown. That's the BEST part of this journey. Being able to see where you've been vs. where you are today. Some people don't re-read old parts of their thread because it's too painful. I totally get that. But it never has been that way for me. I still LOVE re-reading how strong I became. How I changed (for the better of course..... :D). Especially, because H NEVER in a million years thought I would take the route I did back then. My reaction to the affair and to him threw him off-kilter. And I'll never be able to thank those that helped guide me through it.....so give that old Scotty a break, she didn't know any better and was doing the best she could with what she had.......
And you sound much better these past couple of days. I, for one, am so relieved to hear of your decision on those olive branches.....
As for mom......there is NO reason what-so-ever for her to EVER contact OM. If there are some financial entanglements to settle up, either your dad or maybe even YOU can do it. Other than that, there is NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. Keep after her Scotty. She can't half-azz this......I'm am glad though, she has YOU........
Not-That was exactly what I told Mom too. I told her that she needs to use someone else as an IM with THING. I asked her if she has finished reading SAA. She says she doesn't intend to. I said, "Good luck to you then." She asked what I meant. I told her that SAA and this site would be a GREAT tool to have a GREAT marital recovery after infidelity, but if she thinks she will do better on her own, good luck. It's frustrating. I have to remember that she is wayward. It SUCKS.
Had a nice Bday party for my niece yesterday. We were out all day. Had to see some family friends(BIL's Family which I have adopted as my own ). They hadn't seen me since Bampot left. I had to explain about this site. BIL's cousin had a wife who had an affair. They are nw divorced. He tried to take her back but she wouldn't stop talking to her OM. Of course, I got the, "Once a cheater, always a cheater." HATE that. The family did say they were COMPLETELY SHOCKED when they heard. It always makes me feel good when people say that, because it is what I believe. Bampot is wayward, so his actions NOW are that of a wayward. DH was not like that. Everyone who knows him, sees that.
It will be a real shame for DH to stay this way forever. His choosing though.
Going to the drive-in tonight. It's a holiday weekend so.....4 movies. We will be watching "Shrek forever after", "Iron Man 2", "She's out of my league", "Shutter Island." I don't know if we will be able to stay awake. It will be fun though.
Well, BIL just dropped me off at home. I am standing on the porch, and who drives up? Bampot. He is 30 minutes EARLY. AHHHHH. I don't think he saw me. I walked into the house.
We actually left BEFORE Shutter Island. I am interested in watching it though. Shrek was CUTE. Iron Man2, not great. She's out of my League, I am GLAD that the kiddos fell asleep.
Bampot showed up early because DS9 apparently told him that I wanted them home early. I NEVER said that. We weren't leaving until 730 anyways. Oh, well.
Life is going forward, I'm just trying to make the best of it.
OK, forget Mom. Take the book from her and have DAD read it. Encourage him to read on here. Mom is going to keep both men strung along for as long as they will let her.
I was talking to her and I asked her, "So, how many times have you talked to POSOM?" She said, "Three." I asked, "In 9 days you talked to THING 3 times?" She said she HAD to. I told her that I could be her IM for THING, although I DO NOT WANT TO. I told her that I would. I asked her where she was when she talked to THING. She was no where near my Dad. THING was telling her that he has to be with her still.....blah blah blah.
Then even better. My Mom tells me that she had an affair because of the way my Dad treated her. I said, "Bullchit. I call BULLCHIT. There is NO way that Dad did ANYTHING that gave her an excuse to have an affair. NO WAY, NO HOW. I told her that this is why I need her to come on here. I need YOU GUYS to tell her the stuff that is hard to say.
That is where we get to even better stuff. She tells me that she doesn't want to come on here because she doesn't have a computer. I said, "So, if someone bought you a computer and got you internet access, you would go online?" She said, "No," with a laff. I said, "I thought not. What is the REAL reason?" She said, "I think it is a bunch of HOOEY." Well, there we go again folks. An active wayturd(sorry Mommy ) thinks that MB is HOOEY. They are so alike it is scary.
This whole conversation started because she said that my Dad doesn't seem happy to have her home. I said, "Mom, come on, you had an affair for almost 2 years and now you think that in 9 days Dad is going to be happy to have you home. Come on."
Oh well. Waywards. On my home front, cleared out a lot of plants and trees around my house yesterday. The kiddos made their own garden in the backyard. DS9 was upset and missed Bampot last night. I asked him if he wanted to call Bampot, he said no. He emailed him instead. All on his own, I might add. Then he told me to read it this morning. Bampot didn't even respond. I knew he wouldn't. Then DS9 talked to him about it over the phone and Bampot decided that was when he would hang up. Oh silly silly aliens. Don't like reality do they.
Wayward be gone insect repellent is REALITY. Teeheee.
Scotty, it must be tough having to deal with more wayward nonsense- this time from your mom. You are doing great though and at least you offer one voice of sanity to her.
By the way, Shutter Island was a decent movie. A little strange, but interesting.
yeah this wayward stuff does stink. It's bad enough to have to deal with one wayward let alone two........
Would it help you to step away from the mom and dad front a bit??
You know the best way to heal maarriage from infidelity however you can't make your parents go that route. And quite honestly, if they do not address these things mow it will eventually catch up to them....
That being said, does dad know about this contact? If not you need to tell him. He may not do anything about it but he should know.......
Ah Scottie, me thinks you need to take some loonies and get yourself a massage. Ya I know that stuff isntyiur thing, but getting the tension rubbed out would be good for you.....
Ah Scotty hang in there, I am so glad you have this place for support. "Its hard to soar with the Eagles when your working with Turkeys" Huh?
Going back to right after my first wifes affair in 1979 which resulted in a pregnancy and my efforts to restore our marriage reguardless of the OC that was to be born,(wasn't his fault now was it?)... I had moved back to home state and my old factory job.
I was still pretty young, around 21, and it would have been great if I had people around me who were able to understand and support me but instead even the management were the types who had failed marriages, went out on there wives, and attempted to pick up girls from the plant.
Add to that the women were all,(most), a part of the flirty nasty selfish game playing and some of them had there eye on me. I was not going to jump from the frying pan to the fire and have some kinda revenge affair and validate it with saying "Look what she did to me..boo-hoo" But there was no support really and all I felt was worthless and foolish. Mostly the greatest pain was I was alone, totally emasculated with women I worked with every day offering themselves when it was the last thing I needed.
I even went to a shrink to find out hat was wrong with me. "Why don't I take them up on it doc? It seems to be how everybody else deals with these things. I feel so alone everywhere and like such a fool."
He responded with a chuckle and said,"So what you find wrong with yourself is that you have morals?" I didn't see him after that cuz no money but then again he wasn't much support.
I was young and it wasn't for years later till I realized that all those feelings were normal for someone who had a conscience and that in that suffering those morals were protecting me and making me stronger. While protecting people around me at the same time.
I wish I had access to someplace like this or we had a relationship with God maybe it would have saved the marriage but the best I can come up with was i wasn't ready yet to submit myself to His authority if you KWIM.
You are doing great Scotty and it must be tough dealing with your parents as they are swimming in thier emotional mess. I pray they will recover but untill they are desparate enough to grab ahold of help like this site has in solid support of them and the relationship God intended them in marriage well .. you know the drill.
Ya know, I don't know if my Dad knows about contact. I will have to let him know. My Dad won't come on here. He doesn't do computers. He also doesn't read very well so the books wouldn't interest him either. It is frustrating to know a great way to get someone help and they refuse. I just said to them, "Well, good luck to you." Problem is, I keep answering the phone. I was hoping that my Mom would take me up on coming on here to post. Now that I know she won't, I will just watch from the sidelines and tell her that if she wants some suggestions on how to apply MB to her sitch, then I will discuss it with her.
Faithful Follower, no Bampot didn't just hang up. He started saying good bye to DS9 and that frustrates DS9 because he wants to know that he is being heard. I tell him that even if Bampot gives him no response, he still heard him. It is better for DS9 to tell Bampot how he feels so I am trying to keep him communicating.
So, on the DS front. DS9 had his track meet today. He came in 2nd in long jump so he will be moving on. WOOOOHOOOOOOO
Wow, Scotty, you have a lot to deal with - 2 waywards. I just realized that my own mom is a wayward too, and that at least her most recent marriage was actually an affairage! And of course they divorced, and she was living w/some other guy even before she was divorced. Yuck. It's so hard for us BS's to realize how much waywards DONT get it!!! Just don't understand them; you have more goodness there than me for dealing with it - I no longer talk to my mom cause it disgusts me. Don't even get me started on what her thoughts were on H's A!!! /wayward mom rant
Well, 2 weeks ago, I logged onto online banking. WH and I would use his banking info to log on. I noticed that WH opened 2 new bank accounts. I figured that meant that he was preparing to severe finances. I thought, "Well, it's about TIME." Isn't that a weird thought to have? It is because so far, WH has been taking a minimal amount of money out of the bank account. He has been following what he told me he would do. I am SHOCKED by that. I was also hoping(I KNOW I KNOW, NO EXPECTATIONS) that they were getting more "comfortable" with their "relationship"
I feel kind of like I am letting WH get one of his needs met by feeling like he is still taking care of his family. I don't know if I should be concerned about this. I am just throwing it out there. Someone may get something out of it.
Waywards are hard to figure out so I don't even BOTHER.
Scottie, My WH is taking care of me and DS financially...I definitely think that it is meeting one of his needs by taking care of us...and also it makes him less of a bad guy cuz he can say that he is taking care of us financially.
I am just not ready to push the divorce yet, but i am almost there...But who know my WH might surprise me with the D papers..IDK
..I feel kind of like I am letting WH get one of his needs met by feeling like he is still taking care of his family. I don't know if I should be concerned about this. I am just throwing it out there. Someone may get something out of it.
Waywards are hard to figure out so I don't even BOTHER.
Yeah Scotty the guy thing is so often "Well at least I pay for stuff"
Its almost like they think they are doin thier job It is such a dodge to what is lacking in so many mariages but we are brought up with a Dad who is at work a lot, and we tell the Kids that thats what Dads do. So many times the other important things like WHY they do it don't get dealt with emotionally. Hope that makes sense.
So when we as Men look at our performance in loving our family we can easily pull the money card. Yes there are a lot of deadbeat Dads and what man wouldn't support his family but it should be a given. It gets turned into what we can use to feel we are making some kind of sacrifice when in truth its an honor and priveledge.
I thought I remembered that you you were going to separate finances at some point but had issues with supporting the house without his help. Because plan B is spposed to imatate the state that divorce will be like, I think you should get your own account, have your name taken off of the other, and make financial arrangements for him to give you what you need for the boys. Maybe you can isolate someting that he is financially attached to outside or rent, electric,food,and just make him responsible for just one or the phone or cable so you don't "seem" s dependant. Ya know? Like if all he had to do was pay the phone it would relateto his communication with his sons, same wih Internet. Instaed of having anything to do with rent ,food, or utilities that you need also.
Hows the job seach goin? I know this is hard. I am sure that he "feels" connected in a personal way and is getting an EN met beacuse you and he are still connected through the money thing. For all we know he looks at the bank statement to see what you are doing. Thats not really as dark a plan B as it should be. JMO, others may disagree.
This Bampot is a hard nut to crack huh? FYI the two year mark is really a good estimation of when most A's burn out. His head would have to be filled with concrete if he doesn't realize how awesome you are. Then you can get out the jackhammer and help him knock the rocks loose.
Okay, so this morning, I walk out onto the porch after Bampot comes and picks up the boys. He has left a piece of paper from the bank about severing the joint account. I need to sign it. Question is? Should I sign it even though it wasn't brought to the IMs and was given to me directly? I am okay with changing the account into my name ONLY. We will be severing our finances. That's what I wanted anyhow.
DS7 was giving Bampot a really HARD time going. Well, that's what being a DAD is all about.
So the kiddos come walking in the door and DS7 has the paper in his hand. I say, "That paper doesn't come in the house." DS7 says, "But Daddy says you need to sign it." I said, "Well, Daddy needs to send things to IMs if he needs me to sign stuff." Even DS9 says, "Yea, Daddy knows those are the rules." How is it that a 9 year old can follow these rules.
K, I guess that was more a rhetorical question. It was supposed to be how can my 9 year old follow and understand the rules and Bampot can not? Silly wayturds. Always trying to go around Plan B. Let's see if he tries to send me any messages about how to accomplish a great Plan B.
Remember, Bampot is an EXPERT on Plan B. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Thanx SSO. It's not to say he doesn't question my rules or decisions. Sometimes it is annoying. I know that it is the right way of thinking. Sometimes, I just say, "Because I said so."
One thing that has made me very sad lately is that my kiddos aren't as close to each other as they used to be. That hurts me. I will definitely try to bring them closer to each other again.
So, DS7 comes in and realizes that he forgot his hat. He calls Bampot. Bampot says he will be right back to give him the hat. So, I send DS7 out. I look out the window to see when the truck is there. I see it. As he starts to drive away, I see WF. My stomach sinks. All I want to do is go out there and punch her in the face. THAT'S MY SEAT. WF WF WF. I wait for DS7 to come in. I asl, "So, WF came with Daddy to drop you off? Was WFD11 with you?" "Nope, she stayed home. This is the first time in a month that WF came."
Argh.
Well, I wanted to say that I get so much from reading other people's threads. I see a lot of myself in many of them and to see the encouraging words posted to them helps to boost me on some down days. Thanx.
My dreams are never good..The last dream I had about WS and OW, I screamed everything that I ever wanted to say to OW, and WH was calling me crazy and I woke up with tears in my eyes....Its just a horrible thing all of us are going thru, Huh?
But it would be great to have a dream of me beating OW to a pulp, why dont I ever have those dreams? Ah well, such as life I guess...
My WH was very good about paying for everything while he was back and forth the year following D-day. He paid everything for me and the kids -- even things I charged on the credit cards. To ease my concerns, he even signed a paper saying the he'd be responsible for all the bills relating to the kids, the house, personal, etc.
Fast forward to today -- where he lives with OW and her kids, he filed over a year ago, he and her are ENGAGED....
I got a text last week to get his name off all the joint bills (electricity, water, gas, trash, etc.) by June 1 or all services would be cut off. Nice guy, considering we both jointly own the house and the kids live herE with me.
In the past year, he cut us off auto and house insurance and cell phones. He stopped paying all bills, including any for the kids sports like registration fees. He took me off his health insurance, but his attorney told him he had to add me back. He lost his job and we now have no health insurance until he starts a new job last week. Believe me, he TRIED to keep us off the new insurance, but the judge stepped in.
What I wanted to emphasize is that he's gotten progressively meaner and more callous regarding his "obligations" and "responsibilities" as a Dad. Don't assume he'll continue to be "fair" when it comes to the finances. Before WH was court-ordered to pay me temporary support, so I could pay the bills he stopped paying, he cleaned my last $50 out of my checking account before transferring over his payment to me.
In my situation, OW is a money-hungry beeeatch who, I'm sure, gives him a BJ each time he shows her how he's sticking to me financially. Money is when their true colors come out. Watch your back and your account balances.
Oh... in anticipation for him cutting me off the credit card last fall, I went on my infamous shopping spree. The info. on my thread got lost in the MB website meltdown, but in a few days time, I spent over $17K including thousands on gift cards to help me through hard times. Thanks to God for giving me this idea.
If you have any opportunity to stock up on gift cards or cash before accounts are separated, DO IT. Really, HE OWES YOU.
That's one thing I don't regret at all. I actually started early on by adding a $25 Target gift card to my grocery cart. Then I expanded to include gas, resturants, Home Depot, etc. Even McDonalds. Anything to preserve my cash and not add suspicion.
It came in handy this past Christmas. I had gifts for all the nieces and nephews -- most of which are RELATED to WH anyways. I gave a resturant gift card to inlaws just Friday for their 49th wedding anniversary.
I'm running low... down to a few left.
I would really, really recommend this for any BS who can do this without adding suspicion. My big spree came when WH gave me notice that the cards would be cancelled so I charged "big ticket" items in a short period of time knowing full-well that this would be my last chance. I charged DD's tuition, attorney fees, car registration, gift cards, car repair, etc. WH was FURIOUS when he discovered what I did. He tried to push the bill onto me... but when he balked at submitting the credit card statements because this was the card that he and OW used on a regular basis (I held out on him even knowing I had the card I used on my spree), the judge ordered that he continue paying the monthly bill.
Do what you can to keep money on your side of the ledger... especially if the kids are with you. The Art of War -- war is expensive!!
That's one thing I don't regret at all. I actually started early on by adding a $25 Target gift card to my grocery cart. Then I expanded to include gas, resturants, Home Depot, etc. Even McDonalds. Anything to preserve my cash and not add suspicion.
I am the QUEEN of cash back at Wal-mart. I have some money stashed away in the house and I have been able to last long enough to have my government money adjusted. I have back up money. I have a separate account that Bampot doesn't know about.
My IRL friends told me that this separating the joint account is WF's idea and that since it hadn't been accomplished yet, that made her feel insecure and that is why she came. I don't think about that too much, I am just throwing it out there.
I do think that it is funny that Bampot signed the paper on May 20th and didn't leave it on the porch until May 29th. He was here last Sunday, May 23rd, he could have left it then. Stupid WAYTURDS. I almost thought about going out when Bampot came back to give DS7 his hat, just so WF can see how much weight I lost because I am smaller than her and she has been trying to lose weight since 2001, I know because I found sites she was on. That was during my snooping stage. Don't worry, I won't, that isn't worth the feelings I would experience after.
It's not even that I care about separating the bank account and having it in my name only. I would have gladly signed the paper, had he given it to the IMs first. Since even my DSs understand that, well, I don't have to say anything else.
It's funny too, because all he would have to do is change the account his paycheque was deposited into. Then he could just transfer the money over. He could change the password on the online account too. I have my own now. It just seems like a not very well thought out plan. It is interesting though because he changed his address with the bank to her house. Now I have EVIDENCE that he lives there. I know someone will be informing a government agency about that to have her government assistance reduced since he lives there and the funny thing is, it goes by household income. Since he doesn't live here, it goes by mine ALONE and it isn't based on any money he gives me.
See what happens when you are prepared in Plan A to move to Plan B. I am just dealing with the emotions, not really the financial part.
Thanx Pep. Your posts always make me think. Isn't it funny? You only wrote ONE word. It made me re-read my post to see where you thought I was smart. I came up with a few moments. It was FUNNY.
AM, thanx for checking in.
You know, I was walking around the track with my friend today and I was talking about the events of this weekend. We were talking about how APs try to get the WSs to break ties with the BSs. She said, "But you have children together, their will always be a tie." I have been getting so mad at people saying that. I said, "Yes we have kids together, but it doesn't mean that Bampot is going to be in their lives. He could choose not to talk to them anymore. WF has a daughter with someone and she doesn't talk to him. Their is NC between her daughter and her father. WF doesn't give a rat's azz about my kids. She doesn't even give a rat's azz about Bampot. It is purely about HER. "
I didn't mean to lay that on my friend but after the weekend emotions, that is how they came out. We also talked about Sex in the City. I told her that I never liked that show and I don't know why any married person watches it. It is a stupid show which glorifies affairs. I bet WF LOVES the show. Okay, enough thinking about WF. I am DONE with the bad feelings for today.
THANK YOU!! I have despised Sex and the City from the very beginning. Seriously - just the name...
Honestly, sometimes I have wondered if I was the only person in the world who felt that life should revolve around a bit more than one's sex life. Sex is great, don't get me wrong, but the feeling lasts pretty briefly...
Like my sister says, "Even if you had sex everyday, that would be 30 minutes of the 24. What fills the other 23.5 is more important." That's because her current BF isn't as good in bed as her XWH. He is much better outside of the bedroom though.
Oh and I agree Scotty - having children together does not give the WS ANY right to have contact with the BS. I think that some of these WS think that the children's existence gives them the right to tortue the BS forever. Sorry, wrong, Wrong, WRONG in my book!
Oh and I agree Scotty - having children together does not give the WS ANY right to have contact with the BS. I think that some of these WS think that the children's existence gives them the right to tortue the BS forever. Sorry, wrong, Wrong, WRONG in my book!
I agree. There should be the option of the WS being in the kid's lives, but it should never have to be pushed by the WS. And contact? No way. Kids that are older can function just fine with NC between their parents, and if they're still small, it's easier - have them packed at the door with a neighbour and they won't even REALIZE their parents are talking.
I don't mind Sex and the City. No way would I want or want my daughter to be like any of those women though....
I have a small question. I don't think that Bampot has ever actually been given my requirements for breaking Plan B. It was on a different paper that was supposed to be given to him by IMs but they never got it to him. There is a copy hidden behind the family pic that I sent with him. Should I get the current email IM to send him a copy? Or tell him to look behind the pic? Or do I just leave it up to her?
I don't want this doubt to be in my head. Just wanna play this right.
he found it after 2 hous but I got enough to know it was a PA. WH plays an online RPG so he noticed that it was running slowly. I didn't do a great amount of research on it but I know that there are keyloggers that can not be easily detected.
Good question about the Plan B letter - I am not sure either. Melody Lane should be able to answer that. I think that my Plan B letter was kinda vague about that, though. It just said that there was to be NC until OW was gone. Nothing really specific otherwise. I did say that I wanted to attend a marriage weekend, too, but I don't think I made that a clear condition. Why would your condition letter be separate from your Plan B letter? I didn't realize that there were different letters.
Should I have done something else??
(I did have another letter during Plan A that I gave to WH - it was really specific about what had to happen to recover our M, but that was Plan A not Plan B??)
Well, you see it was advised to me to use the Plan B letter out of SAA. I did with some minor tweeks. Then I asked about addendum to the letter about finances and children as well as my conditions to be met to break Plan B. It was suggested that I not give him all of the letters right away, since he was going to be mush head. Funny thing is, he didn't even read it for a while anyways since he thought he knew what was in there anyways. I gave my IMs the conditions to break Plan B which were:
Quote
Before I will consider direct communication with you 1. You must WANT to work on our marriage 2. You must end the affair with POSOW 3. You will write a No Contact letter to POSOW and have it okayed by me and then I will send it. 4. You will leave WORKPLACE (unless she has left first) 5. You will agree to follow a marriage counseling plan of my choosing.(MB of course) 6. You will take a sexually transmitted disease test and I will see the results.
Unless Bampot has actually taken the family pic out of the frame, he has NEVER seen these. He has my Plan B letter, which states NC with POSOW for LIFE. I just want to make sure this gets done. Feels like a loose end to me. If you say it shouldn't be sent or that the IMs could choose when to do it, I will do it that way.
Scotty, Oh wait its the conditions.....I thought it was the PLan B letter being re-sent (like as an olive branch) ....Well now I changed my mind, I dont think you should give it to him...I think I would save that for when he comes home for R...but the vets will know better.
I think it kind of scares the WS away if you give him the full conditions before he is ready for R, thats why they are separate...He will just think its too hard...IDK see what others think.
NP. I just wanted to know how to play this one. Some people keep telling me to get the IMs to restate the requirements and I have been thinking about this for a while. How are they supposed to re-state what was never stated? Just wanna do this the right way.
I asked for help on Mels thread....I think she is so used to me fooling around on her thread that she didnt even read my post...I am like the boy who cried wold on Mels thread....
I think its just the few conditions on the Plan B letter, like NC and working on the marriage...or whatever was put in there...I just think that the other conditions would just scare him away, unless he comes home ready to work on the marriage then you give him the other conditions....thats how I understood it, thats why the conditions are separate, I thought...But we all know I am an IDIOT!!!! LOL!!!
Unless Bampot has actually taken the family pic out of the frame, he has NEVER seen these. He has my Plan B letter, which states NC with POSOW for LIFE. I just want to make sure this gets done. Feels like a loose end to me. If you say it shouldn't be sent or that the IMs could choose when to do it, I will do it that way.
Scotland, I would not have the IM contact him NOW with this. All that is necessary is this paragraph from the letter in SAA:
Quote
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
Did you include that paragraph in your letter?
It should be vague in the letter and when/if he contacts the IM about possible reconciliation, she can discuss your conditions in detail.
My WH does NOT come in my house. He comes on the porch to get the kiddos and kisses them there when he leaves. It is an enclosed porch. There is a window, but the blinds are always shut and he doesn't see me. Ths kids lock him off of the porch and then I walk to the door and unlock it to let them into the house.
Good question about the Plan B letter - I am not sure either. Melody Lane should be able to answer that. I think that my Plan B letter was kinda vague about that, though. It just said that there was to be NC until OW was gone. Nothing really specific otherwise. I did say that I wanted to attend a marriage weekend, too, but I don't think I made that a clear condition. Why would your condition letter be separate from your Plan B letter? I didn't realize that there were different letters.
Should I have done something else??
(I did have another letter during Plan A that I gave to WH - it was really specific about what had to happen to recover our M, but that was Plan A not Plan B??)
Veterans - any guidance for both of us??
AM, typically all that is said is a) end contact and b) commit to recovery. THEN, you allow Steve Harley or your IM to get into the detail and test his sincerity if he expresses an interest in reconciliation.
Scotland, in your case, I would have your IM get in touch with someone from Marriage Builders to discuss the conditions for reconciliation IF HE EXPRESSES AN INTEREST. The big mistake your typical uneducated [but well meaning!!] IM will make is to allow the WS to come back before he is ready because she doesn't understand what is really going on.
For example, when a WS says something stupid like "how can we know if we want to save our marriage if we aren't in contact???" All he is really saying is that he wants to have BOTH the BS and the OW. But most IM's are not accustomed to working with conartists and can't recognize bullcrap when they see it. A MB person would see through that and tell the WS to take a hike.
Okay, so I am in a Dark Plan B and I will let the IMs know that if there is ever a mention by Bampot in regards to any kind of communication or reconciliation that they would email someone on MB about this. I will give them an email address so they can do it without my knowledge in case it's a blowing the smoke up your butt comment. Could I give them yours ML?
Okay, so I am in a Dark Plan B and I will let the IMs know that if there is ever a mention by Bampot in regards to any kind of communication or reconciliation that they would email someone on MB about this. I will give them an email address so they can do it without my knowledge in case it's a blowing the smoke up your butt comment. Could I give them yours ML?
THANK YOU!! I have despised Sex and the City from the very beginning. Seriously - just the name...
Honestly, sometimes I have wondered if I was the only person in the world who felt that life should revolve around a bit more than one's sex life. Sex is great, don't get me wrong, but the feeling lasts pretty briefly...
Sex in the city...Omg I accually feel sorry for the people who idolize those lifestyles.
Oh and I agree Scotty - having children together does not give the WS ANY right to have contact with the BS. I think that some of these WS think that the children's existence gives them the right to tortue the BS forever. Sorry, wrong, Wrong, WRONG in my book!
And I really cannot stand these judges who think that a WS should be forced upon children. At some point, children are capable of thinking for themselves and should have the right to cut ties with a parent if they want to. Once upon a time, people got married at 14 (maybe even younger). If they could do that, then why does the current justice system think that children of that age should not have much say?? Baffling to me....
(Not that I think 14 year old should get married, but they are capable of reasonable thought.)
Very good point. I think is some southern states women could leave thier home and marry at 14 ad the Men had to be 18. Which reflects the general rule that women develop emotionally faster than men.
But more importantly.. I believe that at an age that you can start to make judgements about other peoples character. you should be allowed to attach yourself to a character that you respect and trust.
In the case of adults who don't even know how to act like adults many times the children are forced to endure whahat can only be described as emotional abuse. Especially when they are forced to live with and honor behavior that they know is wrong. Its hard enough to grow up without the authority over you behaving like a child themselves and bottom line we depend on authority for safety. Its sad when you have to look outside your home for good examples and feel so alone as a child or young adult.
Good question about the Plan B letter - I am not sure either. Melody Lane should be able to answer that. I think that my Plan B letter was kinda vague about that, though. It just said that there was to be NC until OW was gone. Nothing really specific otherwise. I did say that I wanted to attend a marriage weekend, too, but I don't think I made that a clear condition. Why would your condition letter be separate from your Plan B letter? I didn't realize that there were different letters.
Should I have done something else??
(I did have another letter during Plan A that I gave to WH - it was really specific about what had to happen to recover our M, but that was Plan A not Plan B??)
Veterans - any guidance for both of us??
AM, typically all that is said is a) end contact and b) commit to recovery. THEN, you allow Steve Harley or your IM to get into the detail and test his sincerity if he expresses an interest in reconciliation.
Scotland, in your case, I would have your IM get in touch with someone from Marriage Builders to discuss the conditions for reconciliation IF HE EXPRESSES AN INTEREST. The big mistake your typical uneducated [but well meaning!!] IM will make is to allow the WS to come back before he is ready because she doesn't understand what is really going on.
For example, when a WS says something stupid like "how can we know if we want to save our marriage if we aren't in contact???" All he is really saying is that he wants to have BOTH the BS and the OW. But most IM's are not accustomed to working with conartists and can't recognize bullcrap when they see it. A MB person would see through that and tell the WS to take a hike.
Thank you for the info - now I am clear on that and I think Scotty is, too!
Sooooooo, I started my first session with a personal torturist, I mean trainer. I got a GREAT DEAL. I go 3 times a week. Mon, Wed, and Fri. I go with a friend of mine. We still walk our 4 km/day(2.5 miles for you "other" people :P ). I felt like I was going to DIE. He is a boxing trainer, so all of his training is for that. It was a LOT of fun. I laffed a few times. Felt like I was going to at the end though. He said that was NORMAL. As long as I get over THAT feeling, I will enjoy myself more.
Bampot didn't call the boys last night. Then, he emailed them with a lame excuse about how he was helping a friend fix his computer and he couldn't call. Whatever. Then today, my cell phone died. We were out. He called the house 3 times. Then he emailed them asking where they were and how come no one was answering the phone. Well, isn't it funny how the kids have to be there for HIS beck and call, but he isn't always there for THEM. What a TURD. A WAYTURD. :P Ahhhhh that feels better.
When I first read the post I stopped at torturist and kept thinking "a torturist, what do they do?"....Okay so I had a little brain burp...Anyway, good for you Scotty! So do you mean you do like boxing moves (okay I am slow today)....if he does, those will be great for any pent up Wayturd anger...
Actually, right now it is about body conditioning. It was a lot of work on the ball and floor. It was the FIRST time I had ever used a ball in my life. It was HARD. He was SURPRISED that I made it the whole hour. He said that people in my condition(fat and out of shape) usually get sent home after 30 minutes on the first day. I do modified things. It is more for each individual's fitness level. It is training like the karate kid way. You do moves that would translate into the boxing ring. There were some reps where we were punching a ball with 2lb weights in each hand. This is a workout I could continue at home. He is AWESOME so far. I am going to sleep well tonight. I walked about 6 km today and then did this workout too. It makes me feel so good afterwards too. EVERYONE should do this.
Sooooooo, I started my first session with a personal torturist, I mean trainer. I got a GREAT DEAL. I go 3 times a week. Mon, Wed, and Fri. I go with a friend of mine. We still walk our 4 km/day(2.5 miles for you "other" people :P ). I felt like I was going to DIE. He is a boxing trainer, so all of his training is for that. It was a LOT of fun. I laffed a few times. Felt like I was going to at the end though. He said that was NORMAL. As long as I get over THAT feeling, I will enjoy myself more.
Yeah for you Scotty!!!! Hiring a personal torturist, I mean trainer was the best thing that I ever did. You will eventually love it. It was what kicked my behind into shape and I now keep it up. I have started to crave the exercise. Yeah!!!!
So I have been thinking about you all day and sending you job mmmooooojooooooo. I had a great 2nd day and you are next, here is the job fairy to send the perfect job your way.
I don't have the cool smileys, but I'm proud of you for working with a trainer. The tough part is sticking with it. Keep it up and eventually you will start to look forward to it!
I am going with a friend who knows that I need a kick in the butt every once in a while and she is willing to give it. In the mornings, if I am not at the school ready to walk our 4 kms, she comes to my house to get me. Gotta LOVE friends like that.
I actually feel really GOOD about it. I am a bit sore but it isn't unbearable. It's a GOOD pain. Had some pretty wacky dreams though. All I remember is something about someone plotting to blow up Jupiter. Weird.
My last dream zombies were trying to get into my car to get my daughter and I. We kept stabbing their hands (like a real zombie would care about that!)
My last dream zombies were trying to get into my car to get my daughter and I. We kept stabbing their hands (like a real zombie would care about that!)
Whoa....just the other night I had a zombie dream too! One of those high action ones where you have to dodge zombies and hijack cars to get away. OF COURSE, WH kept making me go do dangerous assignments and I was very scared. Typical wayturd lol.
Well, day 2 of personal trainer went fine. Didn't feel sick this time, which was GREAT.
On Tuesday, Bampot didn't call the kiddos. They didn't ask to see if he emailed, and I didn't ask them. Wednesday, my phone died, and we were out. Again, kiddos didn't ask to see if Bampot emailed. Last night, we were walking over to my BIL's house. I hand DS9 the cell phone and say, "This is so wherever you are when Daddy calls you can answer." He says, "Nope. I am not talking to him today either. Let him feel what it's like. Like when he doesn't call me." I said, "Okay." Then I took the phone back.
I turned the phone on vibrate. Bampot called the cell phone 8 times, the house 3 times and even left a message on the answering machine. Again, the kiddos didn't care about seeing if he emailed them. I don't even ask them. That's not MY job anymore. DS9 said one time, "I was going to answer, I feel a little guilty." I said, "Well, of course you can answer. You feel guilty because you are a good person and you don't want to hurt people. Do you want to call him back?" He said, "No, I just want to go to bed." I tucked him in.
This morning, we wake up and we were running around getting ready for their school trip. At 7:58am the phone rings and it is Bampot. He hangs up before DS9 can answer. DS9 tries to call him back. No answer. Then at 8:30am, Bampot calls back. DS7 answers and tells him why they hadn't answered for the last two days. DS9 then talks to Bampot and says, "I wanted you to feel what it is like." Then I hear him say, "Okay, We will answer, if we're not too busy that is." Oh my kids are AWESOME. I know Bampot will believe that I got them to do this. I know the truth. When I told my friend this story she said, "What? You didn't expect DS9 to be like you?" HEHEHEHE I guess she is right. He really is. DS7 is just like Bampot. It's funny.
Scotty...seriously...I have NEVER in my life smoked pot, I swear...And I dont own any cast iron cookware, please, please...You are always welcome to join in on the fun...
We sooooo need humor on here sometimes, no?.....I just make it up as I go along....
Hey Still, I was just kidding around. About not being able to play I mean.
And LC, yes there are times that my dreams DO come true, or at least somewhat. A little over a year ago, I had a dream that WF opened my bedroom door. I said, "who are you and what do you want?" She said, "I am WF and I am sleeping with your husband." I woke up and thought I KNEW. That's when I wrote WF a message on FB that she never responded to. I got gaslighted by Bampot. Now looking back, I feel like such an azz.
You kow what I have been noticing lately? I have been looking closely at my friend's marriages/relationships. I can see how they are making MASSIVE LB withdrawals. I KNOW that MB could help them, BIG TIME. It makes me so sad.
My bestfriend started reading HNHN before her hubby went away for military training. She didn't finish it though. I try to help her the best I can.
I even told one of my friends at work, whose father is having an LTA to let his mom know about this site. He said she wasn't interested. She wants to just pretend that the affair didn't/isn't happening. DDay for his Mom involved OWH doing donuts on their front yard at 330am. What a horrible way to find out. Of course there are more horrible ways.
I was thinking about the reason for me to dream about June 17th though. I think it is because that will be the day before 6 motnhs since the beginning of Plan B. I KNEW that even IF Bampot decided to come home, it wouldn't be before 6 months. Still, I did have a little hope at times. Stupid head.
Scotty...Nothing wrong with a little hope...heck I even have a little hope left for my M....I just think of it as Gods way of saying "Okay, dont give up yet, Im working, Im working at softening WH heart".
I still have hope for saving my marriage. What I was talking about was expectations. I know I am not supposed to have any and I was just confessing to the fact that I sometimes secretly still do. Sometimes they are a secret to me too.
It is funny. Sometimes, I give other people advice and I think, "Hey, that's what I should be doing/thinking." I still read all of the threads too. I gain so much knowledge from all of you GREAT posters. I want to thank you all for all of the help and good that you do.
Interesting that you mention other people's relationships/marriages.
I tell my friends and family to NOT take these for granted. To nurture their mates. To meet their needs.
I gave several friends the book "The Power of a Praying Wife" which I highly recommend BWs read. A neighbor confided in me that her husband has been frustrated by the fact that she works too many hours and won't carve out some free time for them to take a weekend trip out of town. I pointed out that this might be her "wake up" call that her husband is feeling neglected. That her spouse is WAY more important than a few extra hours at work.
I've had two other friends say that the breakdown of my M is their wake up call that any M is not immune to this. That we never know what kind of vipers are out there to destroy our families.
I will never trust flirty, playful women again. NEVER underestimate the power of a loose woman. NEVER joke about this kind of thing again.
I agree Scotty and HH. I can see the weaknesses in my friends' marriages as well. I have a couple of friends with rock solid marriages - they meet each other's needs, they always talk before making decisions and on and on. They really get what it means to be married.
Well, I must say, my kiddos are AWESOME. Today, I said, "Well, since DS7 doesn't need his car seat anymore, I guess Daddy doesn't have to come on the porch." I guess when Bampot dropped them off, this was the exchange:
DS9, "Daddy, since DS7 doesn't have his seat anymore, you can say bye to us here."
Bampot, "But I LOVE to come on the porch."
DS7, "Is that because it makes you think about Mommy?"
Bampot doesn't answer and doesn't come on the porch. WOOOHOOOO.
A small victory. You see, I was a little worried about some of the things on the porch being taken by Bampot. That's where I store the tent, chairs, etc for outside. I was worried and was trying to figure out where to move the stuff.
On another note, I was trying to figure out to how uninvite Bampot to DS9's 10th birthday this month. You see, I wrote in my children addendum that Bampot could take DS9 to the party. I decided that I wanted to go instead. I was going to write to the IMs. Then DS9 said, "I don't want to go go-karting, that was Daddy's idea." We have decided to do something else for DS9's party. No uninvite necessary. Wooohooo. Life has a way of working itself out sometimes. And to think, DS9 didn't even know I was thinking about how to do it.
I had more dreams about Bampot last night, and woke up this morning missing him. Don't worry, my little "Loonie in the pickle jar police" made sure I made the necessary deposits. They are really HAPPY we are going to go to Great Wolf Lodge soon(they don't know when) and they will miss a day of school. I figured that was a good use of the loonies.
If so, it is a hotel chain with a HUGE waterpark INSIDE. It has a lot of things to cater to children. It is A LOT of money to go there. I got a deal through my work though, it will only cost us 220 for ONE night on a WEEKDAY.
Well, here is a message I sent to my sister-in-law(my husband's sister) on facebook today. She asked me about being invited to my DS9's 10th birthday party. She then posted some status updates that were directed at me in a passive aggressive sort of way. I had to say SOMETHING. This sister-in-law has been in an affair for 5 years and has 2 OC. These are the nephews I refer to in this letter. It was a hard message to send. I tried to make it as nice as I could and I made sure to CC my MIL so she would know the TRUTH.
Quote
SIL, If you wanna see it.....well, I edited it out. Scotty
The only time I called my WH by name in this message was where I typed Bampot(once). The rest of the message is the way I typed it. I feel better.
I am sure that she hated me when her affair was first discovered because I am the one who told her BH. Every time I saw her with her POSOM, I told her BH. Her BH tried to take her back. She had an abortion(which was TOTALLY unlike her). She then got pregnant again with OC#1 and my BIL was willing to raise the child with her. She said okay, but continued her affair. It was a horrible 2 years until she finally moved out. Only when she moved out, she convinced her then 3 year old daughter to make false accusations about molestation by my BIL. She then kept my niece away from him for 8 weeks until they had their first court appearance. Bampot went to court with my BIL, who was also his bestfriend. He didn't talk to SIL(his own sister) until this past December. After that court appearance, my BIL had enough and moved on.
I was just sick of her tw0-faced wayward speak. She is 32 years old and acts like a 15 year old(I would know, she was 13 when Bampot and I started dating). Her life with her POSOM isn't better. It IS WORSE.
I CC'd it to MIL for two reasons. I wanted to show my side so my SIL couldn't spin it. I also hoped that maybe my MIL would choose the side of good and join me in the fight against Bampot's affair. I have no expectations. I just know what sometimes can happen.
It feels so much better to have written that to her. Her new FB status is, "I am so PISSED right now." Someone commented, "Is it something boy related?" I commented, "Nope. She is mad at meeeeeee. It's okay. I didn't actually do anything to her. You are her friend. You can support her. I have MARVELOUS friends who support me." I don't like to air my garbage on FB in public. I don't like swearing on there either. Not all of my friends want to see that. Horrible.
The whole letter was too large. I didn't do a shorter search. I just took it all out as a precaution. I am sure enough people saw it. It was a good letter too.
Well, you need to take care of yourself. You were a great help to me in the beginning. I talk of you to my IRL friends OFTEN. I think they think I have a girl-crush on you. HEHEHEHEHE. A lot of people helped me and I have a lot of people to thank. I just remember that YOU were the one who got through my New BS fog.
I can email it to MrsW/Melodylane(those are the emails I know of female users.)and see if she will forward it to some people who would like to see it. Lemme know if some of you want that.
OMG. Something funny just happened. Bampot and I share a joint account. I had also set up a savings account. We used Bampot's access card for the online banking. Since I set the savings account up online, it was in Bampot's name only. I wasn't too worried, there was only $500 in it($400 of it was a "bonus" I got from work). There was an auto transfer set up from the chequing account to the savings account. Anyways, yesterday morning, I had a dream that Bampot changed the password to his online banking. That meant I would no longer have access to the savings account. So, yesterday, I transferred the $400 into the joint account(that way I couldn't be accused of "taking" it). I then got rid of the transfer, as the joint account will be MINE ONLY.
What is FUNNY? TODAY, I get an email from the IMs. It seems that Bampot decided to change the password on his online banking. I don't know if it because I transferred the money(I don't think he KNOWS that the savings account is only available on HIS access card). Oh well, covered MY butt and glad I did. Maybe we should all keep a close eye on Jupiter on June 17th.
I can email it to MrsW/Melodylane(those are the emails I know of female users.)and see if she will forward it to some people who would like to see it. Lemme know if some of you want that.
oh oh oh! me please
you can email me direct or send via ML, either way is good
I saw the letter before you edited it.....You are awesome...I dont know that I would have had the cajones to send that...Now that you did it I would though....Its about time these waynerds realize that people dont just forgive and forget....
It was A LOT tamer than what I really wanted to say to her. She of course has not responded. I am waiting for her to de-friend me. My BIL said she wouldn't be that stupid, because she knows I wouldn't accept it again. I figured that some of that MAY get back to Bampot, so I wanted to keep on point and on message. I wanted SIL to know that I was NOT happy with her attempts at destroying my marriage. Why is it that Wayturds have to do this? My friends said that she doesn't want to be alone. She wants to feel better about herself by getting her brother to do worse. He already did horrible things that he will pay for for the rest of his life. No help from her needed. Argh Wayturds.
She knows all that computer sneaky stuff...Comes in handy on this forum...Like she knew that the letter could be googled...OMG, I NEVER would have even imagined that...but all I really know how to do online is shop and post on here....
Oh yeah I also know where to get the silly smileys. Mark taught me that....
Well, since you bumped it, I will do a little update. Got a response back from My SIL yesterday. Can tell it was WELL thought out(/sarcasm). All it was was personal attacks on me and telling me that she supports me and Bampot. How can you do that, when we both want different things right now? Whatever. Also, it was all MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME. Like BIL used to say. She suffers from PPM syndrome. POOR POOR MEEEEEEEEEEEE. It was filled with the fact that Bampot and I didn't support her when she was having an affair. I absolutely WAS supporting her, by trying to help her save her marriage. I was NOT supporting her because I didn't believe in her affair and I didn't accept her affair partner. It was ALL personal attacks about things I did in the past that hurt her. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Then, last night, my aunt from California was visiting. We were at my sister's house. Let's just say that there was a lot of fog talk from my mom and a lot of entitlement and "just do things that make you happy." My brother even said, "If Bampot wasn't happy with you he should have gone out and found happiness with someone else." I held it together until they started joking about calling my Mom's POSOM to find out what bar had karaoke. Then I HAD to say something. It turned into everyone fighting me and they yelled, called me names and my aunt ended it by saying, "You are worthless to me and I am DONE with you." Oh, what a loss.
Needless to say, yesterday was a pretty CRAPPY day. I am over it though. A little tired today from the lack of sleep. Poor DS_9 was so upset when we got home. He said that he wanted to annoy Bampot. I asked him how. He said, "I want to write him email after email saying, 'Come home.'" I said, "Buddy. There is NOTHING you can do or say to make Daddy come home. You did NOTHING to make him leave. This is NOT about you it is about Daddy. There is no magic button you can push. When/if Daddy decides to come home, it will be because he makes the choice."
I did attempt to post this morning about what happened yesterday, but I didn't want any advice or hugs for it. Just wanted to vent. I feel like I am in a better place now about it, so that's why I posted it now.
My life can have so much DRAMA in it sometimes and it feels GREAT to just hang out with my friends at my kid's school. They are so NORMAL and BORING. Thank God. Oh, BTW. Found out a funny thing today. In September, my kids will be switching teachers. The grade 4 teacher is going to grade 2 and the grade 1 teacher is going to grade 5. Well, I guess my kid's teachers will already know ME. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Jeez, I dont even know what to say, I am flabbergasted!...I am sorry Scotty, but you sound like you are in a good place right now....WTH is wrong with everyone these days...and your poor little one, My DS does the same thing...asking his father when he is coming home, it breaks my heart...
Thumbs up for not keeping your mouth shut with your family and letting them have it, someone has to snap them into reality...
I am proud of myself that I didn't go on personal attacks like they did and that I didn't swear or even raise my voice. It infuriated them. Oh I forgot this great one from my aunt. My Mom keeps trying to blame my dad for her, well she doesn't call it an AFFAIR, but it IS. I said to my Mom, "When you said you marriage vows, did you mean them?" My aunt says, "NO ONE MEANS THEM." I said, "I did." She said, while pointing her finger right in my face, "Bampot didn't did he?" I answered with, "Were you TRYING to hurt me with that comment? That was CRUEL and very hurtful coming from someone who claims to be so 'HAPPY.'" She said, "No. I was just trying to show you that not EVERYONE takes the marriage vows seriously." I said, "Well, I do and I did. You said 'NO ONE.' Besides you didn't say that XBIL didn't take his vows seriously, you used my HUSBAND ONLY." That's when she stormed out and said she was done with ME. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Wow Scotty, that sucks that so many around you are so unsupportive. That is crazy. You handled it so well though, as usual.
If it's cool with you, me and the others on this site will be your 'adoptive family', and I'll be your 'big brother'. Please keep standing up for what is right. The world needs more folks like you.
Hey Scotty, "Affair-land Adventure Park" ride attendants are giving you a hard time huh?
Yeah I can hear it now, "Don't try to sell that crap to Scotty", she will see right through it".
How awesome and loving your convictions are for your children and even the spoiled kids in affairland.
They sound like little nieborhood kids testing your meddle to see how far you can be pushed. Bravo young lady
Note---(Affairland is a trademark of "Scotty kicks butt" Inc. and is not to be used for promotional purposes without the express approval of Scotland or her legal representatives or stockholders of "Ummmmm.I installed a Keylogger}
oh honey.....I so wish I could be there to give ya a real hug....and do some SRN on your family. I've told you before how my family is a bit like yours but even they would not go to the extreme your brother did. My sis may have justified her "sub sandwich" to coo-coo ville and back but she was quite adament and supportive that *I* did not deserve what H did......heck I'm getting pretty PO'ed about it for you right now....
I'm so very sorry for this turn of events. It makes doing the right thing and living right and nobal a bit harder. I so very, very PROUD of you......
I suppose the best I can do is offer myself as a big sis until your family returns to there senses.......
Not
ps.....Lil, I ya could send me a copy of the letter or you have my permission to forward my addy to Scottie......loves ya bunches ladies!!!!!
As someone with some very, um, INTERESTING extended family, I totally get this. Right now I'm still on their bad list for telling the principal of the school here that a step-BIL who is a convicted sex offender was in town planning to live. I was concerned that there would be a few days delay between when he got there and when he was required to report. As it turned out, he wasn't planning to report at ALL!
As I recently found, no one had told my FIL and MIL when it happened - I had assumed they would hear immediately - so now they're freshly mad at me and aren't speaking to me again/still.
Sounds like yours won't be speaking to you any time soon, either. Hooray for both of us!!!!!
Wow - I am SHOCKED that your aunt said no one means their vows! Only - my sister said something similar to me, when she asked me why I wanted to fix my marriage and I said I had taken vows, and meant them. She said, "That's not a very good reason." It's not????
Anyway, keep hanging in there. You KNOW you are right!! Anyone who is a wayward or supports a wayward is truly on the wrong path.
If nobody means their vows, then what's the point in making them?
I'm sorry, Scotty, that your family is so obtuse.
The response to your brother should have been, "If Bampot wasn't happy, he should have told me. If that didn't work, he should have divorced me FIRST, before looking for nooky on the side."
Was your aunt a wayward at one point too? I had people at the beginning saying things like "well if he wasnt happy what did you expect him to do?" Ahhhhh, Yeah thats when I said what LC said and then they said "you are absolutely right".....
MelodyLane, it IS in my sent box as I sent it to that addy. The subject has, "Scotland here. This is the letter that I sent SIL in case some MB posters wanna see it. :D" I am sending it again then.
Thank you everyone for the support.
Lexxxy, I have been thinking about it. I really don't know. Maybe they are better teachers than students. I know that I was always a child that spoke my mind and didn't conform to what my parent's beliefs were. I would REFUSE to go to the store to buy my Dad cigarettes because I felt they were killing him(still are). I would even refuse to go to the store to buy their lottery tickets because we were barely getting food and milk(we had a store that would sell you 1 roll of TP at a time, or a couple of bags of tea), I didn't agree with them spending money on pipe dreams. I have always been told that I acted older than I was. I guess I must have learned them through my own observations. Is it possible to be born with a good moral compass? Who knows?
I am trying to pass on these traits to my children.
Speaking f children. DS_7 was sent home from school again today and he has been suspended for 2 days, Monday and Tuesday. Apparently, he wrote the F-word on the school tarmac in chalk. He says he didn't. He wrote, "Fluk" and another boy changed it. He told the principal, but he didn't believe him. He was so sad and all he kept saying to me, while we walked home was, "But Mommy, they don't believe me. They think I did it. They think I lied." His reaction leads me to believe him more than the school. I am not going to appeal it though because I believe he meant to write it but misspelled it. He was really upset when I told him that he would be grounded for 2 weeks. He thinks I don't believe him. I told him it was just fair because DS_9 got grounded for 2 weeks after he was suspended too. WOW, 2 months and 10 days and BOTH my kiddos have been suspended. I was NEVER suspended. Well, life is harder for them right now. It matters more how I react to these things in this time than what actually happens.
I actually feel okay. Just hope Jupiter doesn't explode on June 17th. That will creep me out.
You know Still, I don't know. I know that she was married before. She is married now. She leads a VERY independent lifestyle though. She goes on trips and says that she just writes her husband an EMAIL to let him know she is going. She only visits about once every 7 years or so. I am not too concerned.
I really was angry when my brother said that I was "bitter" and a "liar." My brother is my brother though and we talked it out a bit after. The family dynamic is a strange one sometimes. There has always been a lot of fighting etc in my family. We are ALL very opinionated and strong willed. Oh, did I ever mention that I am a first generation Canadian? My grandparents are all from Europe. Italy, Serbia and Scotland. I can argue with MYSELF.
Yeah, that is pretty tough with your brother...I hate the word "bitter" and a LIAR?, well we know that you are not that....We know who the liars are, THE ONES WHO LEFT TO BE WITH OW!!!!! And me, well I AM bitter...My H left me for another woman, I think I have a right to be bitter...I just hope I can lose the bitterness eventually....
But my brother was using this to tell me that I was being too "sensitive" to what they were saying about other people. They weren't even talking about Bampot. How could my bitterness about my WHs affair make me angry that they were talking poorly about my Dad and grandmother? Really? I would have been ANGRY about the comments they made at any moment in my life. That's why I was angry with the bitter comment. The lying thing was because they said that they weren't making fun of my Dad and grandmother. I said, "But you were all cracking jokes and laffing." My aunt said, "We are thinking of ways to help." I said, "How is laffing at and belittling someone helping them? At any time did you say, 'Let's come up with a solution to this?'" Of course she said, "No. But we weren't making fun of them or joking about it and we never put them down." I was angry so I said, "You know, a lot of people have to put others down to make themselves feel better." I felt like I was practicing no LBing while I was talking to them. I actually thank them(in my head of course) for helping me practice. I need a lot.
You are an amazing woman, scotty. Kudos to you for handling your family so well. I can guarentee you that your Aunt never meant HER vows. IB and lots of travel away from hubby likely means when she is away she plays. Ugh..
I have been experiencing a weird phenomenon lately. I say "weird" because it is a constant thought that goes against my Plan. What am I talking about? I keep wanting to break Plan B. I will NOT. I just really want to start talking to Bampot again. I think about how nice it would be to get in the middle of their affair and reek real havoc in it. How good it would feel to KNOW that I am causing some real drama in the affair. I am not proud of these feelings and thoughts. Actually, I get quite upset with myself for even thinking about these things. I am just sharing to let others know, who may be lurking that these thoughts do come around. I will NOT act on them because they go against the Plan B that DrH has outlined and since that is what I am currently in, I am following that. It is not a constant thought, but it probably does occur at least once a day for the past week.
I have tried to figure out why I have had these ideas. I really don't know. It is DS_9's birthday this coming Saturday. It is a day that I would have LOVED to share with Bampot and now that it is approaching, I am TOTALLY aware how we will not share this one and may NEVER share one again. Sucks, more for Bampot than I though since I will be celebrating DS_9's 10th birthday with my SON. No other place I would rather be.
Oh, I haven't said it in a while, "WAYTURDS SUCK AZZ."
My DS birthday is coming up and he will be 9, isnt that funny...I just want to tell you that the past few months I have been talking to WH, only about DS, but talking nonetheless...I just gave up on recovery and was sick of the go between stuff and thought this would be easier...well I think it has taken me back in my personal recovery, I am missing him more again, crying a little more..THen relationship talk gets snuck in there and I get hurt more.
Anyway, my point is...DONT DO IT.....But I know you already know that. It would hurt you more than you think. It did me.
Geez, I just re-read my post and I realized that I said it was a "constant thought, " and then I said, "it's not a constant thought." WTH? Who was I trying to kid? HEHEHEHEHEHEHE. It isn't a CONSTANT thought but it IS a DAILY thought. Just wondering if it was a part of this whole process and if it was, I wanted others to know that if they have these thoughts, they are normal. OH NOOOOOO. Now I said I was NORMAL. What is WRONG with me? HEHEHEHEHE
Geez, I can't believe I forgot to tell you guys about my close encounter of the wayturd kind. On Friday night, I was going to the carnival with my sister and Mom. My cell phone rang, and I thought it was my sister. I said, "Hello." Then I heard a voice say, "Hello." It took me a second, I haven't heard his voice in almost 6 months. I handed the phone to DS_9 and said, "It's for you." It made me think about him for a second and miss him, but I got over it. I didn't even think about looking at him this weekend, which I guess is a good thing since DSx2 told me that WF was with Bampot when he came to drop the kiddos off.
That is just the way I feel right now. I absolutely love my WH and I will always have some love for him. I do not think that it will be fair for any other person that I would be in a relationship with because he would never have all of me.
My grandmother has never been with anyone else after my grandfather left her. They never divorced and lived separate for many years.
I do not need a man or a relationship to make my life complete. If my WH had died instead of committed adultery, I couldn't imagine being with someone else.
Also, right now, I have young children who need my time and focus. Since I have sons, I would have to introduce a man into my life and it would most likely cause conflict in my household. We all know what kind of problems biological parents have with their own children. I can't see myself being able to juggle dealing with this kind of sitch. I would always pick my children over another person. It would have been a little different with my WH as he is their biological father and I will NEVER question the love he has for our children. In his Wayturd mindset, he has done some stupid things, even to them, but I have NEVER questioned IF he loves them. I know he does. Everyone who knows him knows that.
Also, I have always known that this was going to be it for me. I have always said that how ever this ended with my WH(either a D or death), that I would not date anyone else. Dating is really only a way to get to know someone enough to marry them Since I don't plan on doing that again, there is no reason to date.
I do NOT condemn other people their choices. I believe that MOST people would move on after a D or death of their spouse. I just have always known that I was NOT one of them. Now, I am not saying "NEVER' because as my friend always says, "When you say 'NEVER' that precisely what you will do."
I am going to make a spectacular life for myself. I just need to figure out what I wanna be when I grow up. I am working on it though.
Yes, I am aware. I have always been told I act older than my age though. I have always felt like an "old soul." Since I do believe in reincarnation, it is quite possible.
I am reading Queenie's thread. I am only on the second page and I found a quote by Mark that I would like to keep. I am sure I am going to find MANY MANY more. Wish I would have thought to post the ones from mimis thread. Oh well. Here goes.
Originally Posted by Mark
Remember that Plan B is NOT giving up, only stopping the drama so that you don't have to deal with it while you wait to see if he ever gets his poop grouped.
Scotty -- you mention DS's upcoming Bday. Do you celebrate Father's Day? It's Sunday here in the U.S. and I can't stand hearing all the "Dad's so great... Dad's sacrificed for me... etc." ads on radio and TV. Those commercials MAKE me think of WH and memories when the kids were little and our family was intact.
Our WH's USED to be great Dads. They aren't anymore. They CHOSE to put their needs ahead of their family. They PICKED OW over their kids. Good men will sacrifice for their family. Risk their lives. Go broke funding their kids' college. Hurt physically to finish a backbreaking project. Give up sleep worrying about a sick child.
I know you still love your WH... but he's gone for now. The alien currently residing in him doesn't care about your kids.
You are right, Scotty. You will be with his son on his bday because that is where you are SUPPOSE to be. And you will be doing what you are SUPPOSE to be doing..
Ignore Bampot. Let's see how he feels to not be with DS on his bday. Maybe that will wake him up a bit.
I have been experiencing a weird phenomenon lately. I say "weird" because it is a constant thought that goes against my Plan. What am I talking about? I keep wanting to break Plan B. I will NOT. I just really want to start talking to Bampot again. I think about how nice it would be to get in the middle of their affair and reek real havoc in it. How good it would feel to KNOW that I am causing some real drama in the affair. I am not proud of these feelings and thoughts. Actually, I get quite upset with myself for even thinking about these things. I am just sharing to let others know, who may be lurking that these thoughts do come around. I will NOT act on them because they go against the Plan B that DrH has outlined and since that is what I am currently in, I am following that. It is not a constant thought, but it probably does occur at least once a day for the past week.
I have tried to figure out why I have had these ideas. I really don't know. It is DS_9's birthday this coming Saturday. It is a day that I would have LOVED to share with Bampot and now that it is approaching, I am TOTALLY aware how we will not share this one and may NEVER share one again. Sucks, more for Bampot than I though since I will be celebrating DS_9's 10th birthday with my SON. No other place I would rather be.
Oh, I haven't said it in a while, "WAYTURDS SUCK AZZ."
OMG, right there with you; only mine are constant. It feels like every minute of every day. I keep wondering, will I ever feel normal again, will I ever not feel broken, will I ever be able to trust anyone again, and most of all how can I make the A break up horribly so that WH, and POSOW are competely miserable. It takes every once of effort I have to not break pln B.
From Queenie's thread. Mimi wrote this about Plan B. Excellent. I love to find the little gems. Never know when I might need something to keep me on track.
Originally Posted by Mimi
The point of PLAN B is to SAFEGUARD the LOVE for your HUSBAND..the more you see of the ALIEN,there's a great likelihood that your love for him will die
Queenie wrote this.
Originally Posted by Queenie/SG
My WH is so typical from the words, to the selfishness, etc. And yet, when it's your own story you somehow think it's the worst case ever and there is no hope
and one of Mark's favourite quotes
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Along with his "The further we get from our former ignorance, the less tolerant we become of that ignorance."
Actually, when you talked about having thoughts of breaking Plan B and reeking "havoc" and wondering if this was "normal" (because what's "normal"..... )), she was who I thought of. She went through similar emotions. A LOT.....I can tell you from my experience, it's normal no matter. For a LONG time, even in R I would think of think of things I "should" have done/said, but in all honesty, everything went the way it was supposed to go. Just remember to keep your goals in front of you....and DO NOT break Plan B......
BTW, your encouragement and help to SoL was spot-on!!! Way to keep him grounded and focused.......looks like these boards have a couple of "up-and-comers".....
Thanx Not. I needed to get a good read on here. I felt like I had already absorbed what I was capable of out of DrH's stuff for now(I say capable of, because I will read it again when I get my head in a different place).
As far as the advice I give to any poster, I just want to pay it forward. I sometimes don't know if what I am saying will get squished by a "vet" but I am ready for it. I know that I have learned from the squashing before, especially when it was from MeldoyLane.
As far as the advice I give to any poster, I just want to pay it forward. I sometimes don't know if what I am saying will get squished by a "vet" but I am ready for it. I know that I have learned from the squashing before, especially when it was from MeldoyLane.
I for one appreciate anyone who helps me on my thread. People posting there is support. Most people know what they have to do we have a plan. The devil is in the details. Its the implementation that sucks. So keep giving advice. Alot of times it helps TONS just knowing there are people out there that care.
Took DS_9 to DSBN regionals. He came in 9th. 8th place was 2 cm more than his jump. Unbelievable. I am so proud of him, he did so well.
DS_9 tried to call MIL. It is MIL's birthday today so he was calling to say Happy Bday and tell her about his 9th place. Someone answered. Then they hung up on him. He called back. The person(I am assuming MIL's BF) said, "Don't call here anymore. Give the phone back to your mother." WTH? Seriously? You are going to do this to a nine year old. WHATEVER. I don't have energy to expend. As I say, "Don't engage stupid people." I think I am going to be doing this a lot right now. I have been dealing with a lot of stupid people. I guess when you learn how to be a better person, those around you don't seem as great anymore. My standards for my personal treatment and the treatment of my family have been raised. It is a GOOD thing. Rise above. That is my goal. ARGH.
Scotty, your MIL's boyfriend? Is she divorced? WHY OH WHY would someone treat her grandson that way? How did DS9 take it?
I am so happy to see you are reading Queenie's thread. If ever there was an intervention by God, it was in her and her FWH's lives. It is such a great tale and so much wisdom to gleen from reading about Queenie's personal growth while in plan B.
I have been dealing with a lot of stupid people. I guess when you learn how to be a better person, those around you don't seem as great anymore. My standards for my personal treatment and the treatment of my family have been raised. It is a GOOD thing. Rise above. That is my goal.
They sure have. Good for you, Scottie.
It's good to keep the silver linings in mind as we look at those dark clouds overhead. The lenses through which we NOW view others -- and life in general, -- are quite useful and valuable, and the great thing is we get to keep 'em as we continue on our journey....
MIL is D. They have been D for a while. FIL and MIL had MANY affairs during their marriage. Bampot used to say that was one reason he would NEVER have an affair. He didn't want his children to grow up like that. Little did he know. I really don't know why MIL's BF would treat my DS_9 like that other than they are mad at me for the messages I sent SIL. Whatever. Again, "Don't engage stupid people." DS_9 was upset and almost started to cry. I wrote MIL a message on FB letting her know that he tried to call. It's up to her what to do with it. If she wants to ignore that, then there will be no way for her to blame me for her relationship with DS_9. ARGH. WAYTURDS. I always thought that I had a good MIL. Now, not so much.
MIL wrote back on FB that her BF didn't recognize the number and thought it was some kid playing with a phone. I guess this goes to show that I really need to find out all of the info before I get angry. Funny thing is, when you get angry at someone, you see the things they did in the past a lot differently. Why did I think I had a good MIL? Because she stayed out of my relationship and really didn't say anything to us about things. Well, DUH!!! Of course she wouldn't say anything to her son when he started having an affair. She doesn't get involved. ARGH to ME.
Don't beat yourself up Scotty. Part of you being a better person is that you didn't ACT on your feelings before getting the facts. A lesser person would have went OFF and made a mess of the benign situation. Yes, you were frustrated and maybe jumped the gun, but give yourself a break; with what you've been through and are going through anyone might have a quick trigger. This can be a good learning moment for DS9 about miscommunications- I know you'll take advantage of it.
"Don't engage stupid people." As my grandpappy used to say,"Don't argue with a crazy man". My favorite from my friend from Texas was. "Momma taught me that it was not fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person"
Thanx Opt. You are right. I was telling my Dad how sometimes we slip back into old habits. I still need some practice at not reacting to things without having all of the facts. Hey, just thought of something. DS_9 gets down on himself when he doesn't do something the way he expected. Hmmmmmmm I think he comes by it honestly. I DO THAT. Always harder on myself than on others. WOW.
Aren't people funny? Huh? I keep learning about myself more and more. Just when I thought I knew everything about myself. I mean, I have known myself for 34.5 years, you'd think I'd know EVERYTHING about ME by now. HEHEHEHEHE
I have felt as i follow your thread like maybe in some way I could help you by supporting you. That when i told you much more of my story than maybe was nessesary that is some way it would build you up and make you more commited and secure that you were doing the right thing. That you would heal, that life would be better for the journey you were embarking on.
I have come to think of you like a little sister and because this has been more of a girls thread I tend to just read and your supporters are doing a great job. Your convictions today have effectively worked to support me in mine. So I thought I would share them with you.
I have allways held the belief that when we marry its to our best freind more than to our lover. The lover part just brings us closer than anyone else and bonds us much deeper. Freinds support each other, bring each other to accountability in open and honest relationship communication, and do not lie or betray each other. We need our friends. We don't really need lovers.
Freinds activly look for ways to support us, agree to disagree without condemnation untill they can reason things out with us in the most positive healthy solution for all, and even refuse to enmesh themselves with our negative selfish behavior if nessesary to preserve the friendship in the state it should exist in. Freinds have convictions for us when we are lost.
My wife at one time was my best friend and more. When you activly commit to share your life with someone they become part of you forever. If they leave it is like a death, whether they die or not, the effect is the same. Its a loss ireversible inside, and a new life must emerge from the old self, Which is the process I find myself in, as many others here.
The deeper and more commited you are, the more thier problems and issues become yours, and the heavier the fog is when you have followed them into the fog bank. We follow sometimes because we believe we will never be abandoned even if the ship hits a rock. Its a team effort, a joint cause, a commitment and belief that we will become stronger for our mistakes. Its more than a business agreement where money is the bottom line on whether the merger will go thru, we stay committed even when we see each others weaknesses and beleive we will work past them as we grow together. We know we will change, we know they will too, but we keep our commitment because thats what we really have thats valuable. Thats all we really own. Thats all we can really count on. Its that strength we see in others that gives us strength, and what we appreciate in them also.
I could not go back to the years that I loved best, when my wife was in control of her life and was the most positive, when my children were young, when lifes challanges were in front of us and we worked hard to love and live as the people we belived God intended us to be. Those were the best days of my life. I had hope and determination with tenacity that in the waning days of our lives we would look back and appreciate all the struggles we came through.
Those struggles are still precious to me. I don't believe I could be happier than being a Husband and Father, and I am still needed by my children in ways no other woman could understand. So I wouldn't even bring one into it.
Besides, my friends are all I need to enrich my life. I have allways been able to be friends in appropiate ways to women. I might occasionally hear them talk about thier mates but quikly shut them down as I bring up what might be thier side or just because it between them and I wont get in the middle. That affords me the ability to be friends with anyone and enjoy the company. That and the many challenges and adventure life has still to offer keeps me going. Its all I expect now but in ways it so different than I once expected and in that difference it might be even more.
Thank God for MB and the clear knowledge of what love is and what marriage should be, and can be, for the betrayed and the lost. Without it and the definitions I might still be blaming myself for failing my wife. There will allways be a part of me that blames myself and that is my weakness. AS time goes by I am able to dismiss that notion and recognize it as a foolish waste of time. We are accountable for our own actions and it does not matter how much we try we can't make others decicions for them, can't teach those that wont listen, can't love anyone enough if they refuse to see it to help them love themselves.
We can love them for our sakes and because we choose to even if they choose not to love us. WE just don't enter into thier BS when they are swimming in it and throw them a lifeline when they are ready to come out.
DS_9 tried to call MIL. It is MIL's birthday today so he was calling to say Happy Bday and tell her about his 9th place. Someone answered. Then they hung up on him. He called back. The person(I am assuming MIL's BF) said, "Don't call here anymore. Give the phone back to your mother."
I know MIL had an "explanation", but dirt-bag BF has to know she has grandchildren and to treat any child this way before he knows who he's talking to means her house is no longer a fit place for your children until dirt-bag BF is assuredly GONE.
Bampot is the only one who takes the kiddos there right now and even before, it was pretty much only on holidays. My ILs have gotten their noses outta joint because my kiddos spend more time with my family and with our friends. These are the people who make time in their life for my kiddos and are great influences on them. Just because someone is biologically linked to someone else, doesn't make them "family." I never liked that my ILs didn't put much time into my kiddos. I was always to blame by them though. Bampot never called his mother on her Bday(wonder if he did today) and I always asked him about it. His response was that they just weren't like that. It is foreign to me. Funny thing is, SIL married a man whose family was close, just like mine. I always thought that was odd considering they didn't have it but chalked it up to an "opposites attract" thing.
Green2red, AKA Confused2010, I would like to keep this OFF of NW's thread. This is NOT helpful and will become HARMFUL.
Originally Posted by Green2red
You have no idea what helps him and what does not. All you have is your advice. We have actually helped each other if you must know everything. I have helped him confirm things that he could not and vice vs.
You have a smart mouth for someone trying to help...probably the reason you've been in plan B for 9 months! Looks like D for you!
Don't worry..I won't post on this thread anymore. I can email him directly. I don't want advice from people like you..you are obviously bitter since your own M didn't work!
My response. Green, I did not attack you personally and I will not as I am learning how to avoid AOs and DJs. I have been in Plan B for 6 months and it does NOT mean that I am going to headed for a D. Even DrH would not tell me that because he is not a predictor of the future.
What I was telling NW(not YOU BTW) was that it was harmful to listen to your spin on his WW's affair. You see, you were attacking his WW and making excuses for your own BOYFRIEND. It waqs HARMFUL to NW and went against MARRIAGE BUILDERS ADVICE. I don't know if you have read the material on here, but this was NOT helping NW. He needs to get where he needs to go on his own. If you are angered by my telling him not to talk to you anymore, I am sorry for you. I am NOT sorry for advising Now_what to stop communicating with you. There are MANY times when a BS is advised to STOP talking to the SPOUSE of the AP as it is harmful. I was only protecting NW, not harming you.
More from Queenie's thread, this one by SMB. It is a verse that she would cling to and it is GREAT.
Quote
"I know the plans I have for you, not to harm you but to prosper you."
Oh, just remembered. We drove past a church today and the sign said this, "Sign broken. Message inside." I laffed so hard. That was GOOD.
Mimi wrote that this is what she would tell herself when she felt down
Quote
HEAD UP..CHEST OUT: "I am his wife. God put us together and wants us to be together. With God holding me and guiding me, I can do whatever I can do to fight the forces of EVIL that are trying to keep us apart and when I have done all that I can possibly do, I will turn this over to GOD." THIS IS WHAT I WOULD TELL MYSELF
Oh Mimi, in case you ever come back. Thank you. You have helped ME so much.
Hey Scotty, just wanted to say I think your doing a great job with NW and hope the anger from G2R doesnt side line him. I decided to back off because of the TJ way it was going.
NP, I just decided that I wouldn't engage as I could sense the feelings that were creeping up in me and as I said before, I look at these opportunities to practice avoiding AOs and DJs. I understand what Green2red is feeling, I just made sure that I was being helpful to NW. I am not worried about hurting other posters feelings when what I intend to do is help the creator of a thread.
I say, Scotty, you are a strong, strong woman. I don't know if I could have been as nice not to have AO's or DJ's towards people. You amaze me on how you stay calm, even with Bampot and fam... I still have a lot to learn... I don't post much anymore, trying to spend that 15+ hours a week with FWH, but I definitely read up on the people I've grown attached to, and you're definitely one of them.
Hey cd. I often think about you and I figured that you were trying to fit us in AFTER the UA. That's the way it is supposed to be. I see when you post to others and I know that you are doing okay through what I see. I hope one day you can change back to your original posting name(or something close). I miss seeing it.
I miss my name too!!!! I know H knows it, we were saying something about aliases the other day and he said my alias in spanish.... I don't mind him knowing, it's the fact that FOW and his fam have found this site. I miss my other name, but will go without it. :-) Hrm, that reminds me, probably should update... Hugs!
More from Queenie's thread. Mimi talking about how the BS knows if they are making an impact in Plan A.
Quote
AS LONG AS YOU ARE MEETING HIS ENs and/or EVIDENCING your CAPACITY to do so YOU ARE MAKING IMPACT..BELIEVE IN THE MBer's SYSTEM...
Sometimes, in my lower moments, I think that I didn't do a good enough job in Plan A. I feel like I could have done so much more. I know NOW I could do so much more, but that's because I KNOW more. to that thought. You have NO business being in my head. I did a GREAT Plan A, the best I could have at the time. Stop being so hard on myself. Don't worry, I am not too low. I am just hard on myself. I have to stop that. ARGH
Well, nothing too interesting happening in Scotty land today. DS7 went back to school after his 2 day suspension and......GOT SENT TO THE OFFICE AGAIN. ARGH. He has lost his recess time for tomorrow.
So, my friend's husband had to watch my kiddos so I could go to my personal trainer tonight. DS9 talks to Bampot and says, "we were over at friend's house because Mommy had to go out with MAN'S NAME(trainer)." He didn't say that I was going out for personal training or anything like that. Well, I guess Bampot is going to think that I went out on a "date" or something. I dunno if that is good or bad,......hey hey Scotty, Plan B Plan B. Okay I know, I SHOULDN'T think about it. I am just worried that Bampot will think that I have moved on. Okay, I am over it now that it is out there.
Serenity to accept things I cannot change Courage to change the things I can Wisdom to know the difference
..........
Bampot can think whatever his pea-brain wants. It is outside your locus of control. Speculation is fun, especially when we are making fun of dumbazzwayturds
I know. I just can't talk to my IRL friends about it till tomorrow, so......you guys are all I've got to vent to.
When DS9 got off of the phone(because I make sure I don't say a word while he is on the phone with Bampot) I asked him why he said it like that. He said, "You didn't tell me what to say." I said, "That's because I don't worry about what you say to Daddy. I just tell you that you can tell him anything as long as it's the truth." He smiled and said, "That's what I did." I just answered with, "yes you did."
They certainly do. My friends keep asking me why I am surprised though. They say that I should have known I was going to raise kids that were like me.
t/j (Oh NOOOO now I am T/Jing myself) on another note, a couple of years ago, there was a colouring contest at my workplace. My manager was able to pick my children's pictures off of a wall of 50 pictures. I was AMAZED. I asked her how she knew they were my children's work. She said, "It just seems like something your children would have done." It may have been because my DS7(who was 5 at the time) coloured in the easter Bunny in green highlighter. The thing is, I just let my kids make their own choices. I tell them when I believe that they are doing something that is wrong, but it is up to them to make their own choices. I tell them all of the time, "I am not always going to be around, you are going to have to trust yourself to make the right choices." It's something else my Dad always told me.end t/j
Well, obviously, whatever you are doing its working....You sound like a wonderful mother and the proof is in the pudding.
Ditto.
Do you think DS9 said that to try to intentionally make Bampot jealous? Or was it more a way of striking out to try to hurt him? Sorry if you aren't supposed to think about it, but I'm not asking what affect it may have on Bampot, just more of your son's motives.
Hmmmmm, I really didn't think of it. It came out more like his usual telling Bampot everything that happened. When I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING.
DS9 and DS7 also saw my trainer yesterday. My trainer was driving by us while we were walking our dog and my trainer stopped the car, rolled down the window and talked to me. DS9 said, "Who is he Mommy?" I said, "Don't worry about it." (we were standing with a friend of mine and she had some harsh things to say about us going to see a trainer.) When we got home, I said, "You know how I told you that I go out to see TRAINER, well that's Trainer." DS7 said, "Do you go to a restaurant?" I said, "No. I go to workout." He said, "Oh."
I dunno DS9's motives. And the beauty of Plan B is that I won't know Bampot's reaction/non-reaction. Ahhhhhhhh Plan B.
Are you sure DS9 really understands why you go see the trainer? It is possible he is trying to manipulate the situation, I sure wouldn't put it past him since he wants to "fix" this so badly.
Hey, Scotland...totally off-topic but can I ask you what your PT is having you do and what your goals are?
The PT gets us to do a lot of different things. Honestly, I have been there for 6 classes and every time, it has been different. There are some things that we do each time but the core of what he does changes. We start out with stretching with the ball. Then we usually do sit ups on the ball. Push ups(I am not THERE yet). Sit ups and reverse crunches, on the floor, come next. That's about the first 10 minutes. After that he gets us to do varying things. A lot of agility. It is boxing training, so everything that he gets us to do, translates into the boxing ring. I have learned a lot of things and it is a lot of fun.
I gained A LOT of weight over the years. Bampot used to tell me that it didn't bother him. It bothered me but I was never really ready to do anything about it. I had done weight watchers in the past, and lost 40 pounds in one year. Then, I gained it back plus some. I am NOT doing this because of Bampot. Actually, I started changing my eating habits last summer. I started drinking water(I hated water before). I stopped eating fast food. I started walking around the track. I was walking by myself and then my friends joined me. My one friend, who is a size 4, wanted to do this PT. She wanted someone to go with and I needed someone to push me. That's why I decided this was the right thing for me.
I have started seeing results already and it has only been 2 weeks. Others have already made comments to me as well. It is worth it for sure.
Are you sure DS9 really understands why you go see the trainer? It is possible he is trying to manipulate the situation, I sure wouldn't put it past him since he wants to "fix" this so badly.
It is possible that he was trying to manipulate the sitch. I have spoken to him about it. I don't often listen to what DS9 is saying to Bampot though. I am not monitoring it. I usually only hear what he is saying when he is sitting next to me on the couch or I catch something when he is in another room. While he was talking to Bampot last night, I was making myself something to eat in the kitchen. I only heard that one comment and something about DS7 getting sent to the office again yesterday. Usually, when I overhear them talking, they are just telling them EVERYTHING that happened that day. I am going to talk to DS9 about it and tell him that he isn't responsible for fixing this sitch and that there is nothing he can do.
So, I am going to be watching the news all day today to see if Jupiter blows up.
Hey, Scotland...totally off-topic but can I ask you what your PT is having you do and what your goals are?
Goal--To build up a good right cross to smack POSOW in the nose...
Cmon Scotty.. tell the truth. you think about it...
But it doesn't qualify for a loonie i don't think...Maybe IDK
Originally Posted by Scotland
Now_what, it is often advised that a BS should be weary about contacting a member of the opposite sex. It is a boundary that should be kept even more vigilantly after the discovery of your WSs affair as you are more susceptible to a RA. I know you don't think you could fall into that trap, neither do I, but you should keep those boundaries up to be sure.
Don't worry NW, my boundary is WAY up on this one. I DO NOT spend ANY time ALONE with ANY MAN(except my Dad ). When I go to this personal trainer, I am with two other FEMALE friends. Thanx for looking out for me, and for using my words
Sounds like your boundaries are good. Yes you need to be hypervigilent because RA's are NOT uncommon. I know of 2 BW's on here that happened to. You are going to find in Q's story Mimi warning her of this often........
My diet is the pits still. I am slowly changing that.
Weight training isn't really something that this trainer does. We only use the ball, a mat and 2 2lb weights. The rest of what we do is body conditioning.
My friend has made me introduce spinach into my diet. I really didn't like it before, but apparently I can eat it raw. It has replaced lettuce in my salads and wraps. Other than that, I am quite embarrassed by my diet. I am not willing to discuss it fully here but lemme just say that I do have a friend monitoring it. She kicks my butt when I need it.
As far as my boundaries go, I have always had decent boundaries. The reason I say decent is because there were times when I was alone with men and there were times that I COULD have crossed a line. I don't mean that I ever came close to an affair but I now have learned that there were definitely times when it could have gotten there. It is scary to think like that. I never looked at men as attractive though. It made me uncomfortable when other women would "check" guys out. I just didn't do that. I must admit that lately I have been looking. Never in a horrible way and I never know the people or even intend to meet any of them.
As I have mentioned on my thread before, even in my dreams I would be kissing a guy and I would say, "I can't do this, I am MARRIED." Now, those dreams have changed to me having SF with Bampot and I say, "I can't I am in Plan B." No kidding, I REALLY DO THIS.
I am MORE aware of weak boundaries and even see them in others. I was talking to a teacher at the track meet and I realized he has EXTREMELY WEAK BOUNDARIES. I STAY AWAY.
Just a word of encouragement, Scotty. I think you'll find that, as you continue working out and really feeling your body getting in better shape, you'll want to be more health-conscious all around. You'll start craving healthy food and turn away from junky and/or more processed stuff. You'll be more in tune with your body, and can more easily monitor sleep, nutritional intake, etc.
It's a positive feedback loop. Once you get going, you just keep going!
Of course, I could be wrong. I know I totally have used the "Oh, I worked extra hard today, so I can DEFINITELY go for the candy bar!" line before. Once.Or twice.Or...well, anyway....
I know that I will eventually turn around ALL aspects of my life. I have tried to tell my friend that I have changed SO much about my eating habits in the past year and it has to be a whole LIFESTYLE change. It needs to become permanent and that may take me some time. I will admit that I ate some junky food yesterday, for lunch, a few hours before I went to PT and I felt like I was going to I will NOT be doing that again. That means that at least one day of the week I will not be eating food that is too junky.
I do walk almost 5 kms a day and I do this PT 3 times a week(my friend wants us to move up to 4 soon). I have lost A LOT of weight, although I don't know how much. I do know that I went down 3 sizes in clothes since Bampot left 6 months ago. I even feel the tightening of my arms and abs. I am not as tired walking up hill. I can even run.
I was VERY overweight before. Now I am overweight. It's an improvement and it is being done in a healthy way so it will last.
Being an insulin dependant diabetic for 24 years and having diet issues gave me a lot of information. What Vannilla says is very true.
Whe I was 30 I went all out and eliminated all fat, salt , and sugar from a diet of 2000 Calories a day. Maintained 190 lbs, was lean and mean and worked two jobs.
What was the greatest benifet was that although I was much more focused and relaxed i had great energy. The need to eat a Whopper once to stave off an insulin reaction acually had a noticeable effect 15 mins later. It felt like someone opened my head and poured a quart of oil in my brain. my thinking gat sluggish and i was tired.
We truly are what we eat and it has a strong effect on us,The more sensitive our system and the cleaner it is, the more noticible.
Of course I was eliminating all fats from my diet, eating what Dr Robert Haas who trained olympic atheletes had in his book, "Eat to Win" (1983 bestseller).
That was then, this is now, I am 80 lbs overweight, put on an extra 30 when I became disabled in 06, then another 50 after wife passed on. But I have been working on getting out and starting to use the bike my daughter got me, (can't run anymore unless I can get them to fix my legs).
So here is the news that I really wanted to share though. Here in the states there is a program on public tele from a phychiatrist called Dr Daniel Amen. He is world wide known for his work in brain spect scans and is a well published author. His book, "Change your brain, Change your body" talks about diet and how to avoid cravings as well as what type of foods, vitimens, supplements will help different people based on thier own individual chemistry. This link can explain in more detail and I think everyone would find this site interesting. There is a lot of useful info there. This isn't some guy sellin snake oil. Its useful info that makes total sense.
I really can't do him justice here. The stuff is self explainitory about weight control and nutrition. One thing I learned years ago is that we can function on 1800 high quality calories a day and still have energy that will surprise you. When I became a diabetic I went head on into the challange and learned so much. I was doing martial arts and working second shift and constuction in the morning on 2000 calories. And I felt great, took less insulin, and didn't even feel like smoking anymore.
But here is the prize i got in Dr Amens book that went beyond the diet thing. "Change your brain, Change your body" is an encylopedia of practical information and studies about brain chemistry, the effects of hormones, even where they come from, and every diagnosed mental illness that we have to deal with in these times. He also discusses how so many things are mis-diagnosed and why.
If you ever wanted a easy read simply laid out book that can help you understand yourself and ones you love from the point of what goes on in our brains, emotions, memory, with practical help. This book is a must have. If anything I would suggest buying it from wherever.
The SPECT scans are also interesting on the site. Shows what happens to the Pre Frontal Cortex, (The part that makes good decisions), under the influence of just about any drug, as well as most common brain maladys,(ADD. Alziemers,).
My friend has made me introduce spinach into my diet. I really didn't like it before, but apparently I can eat it raw. It has replaced lettuce in my salads and wraps. Other than that, I am quite embarrassed by my diet. I am not willing to discuss it fully here but lemme just say that I do have a friend monitoring it. She kicks my butt when I need it.
I like spinach. However, I don't think it should replace romaine and green leaf lettuce. It's good to see you making positive changes. I would urge you to start introducing some more weight bearing exercise.
And if you ever have any diet, exercise, or nutrition questions...shoot me an email. I teach diet, exercise, and nu nutritrition as part of my profession.
Thats awesome kilted. So Scotty you have someone who is a professional.
Kilted Is it true that spinach is mostly protien and that is why its more benificial in diets as opposed to boston and romaine?
Sorry for the T/J. Im just one of those believers that if we want to run our bodies at high performance. We need to fuel up on high test. Not sure about the additives
K have you ever read Robert Haas? I know he sounds like a high school cheerleader in his book but he had done a lot of work in the 80s and still has a clinic I think. I know at the time it worked for me.
Have you ever looked into or heard about DR. Amen? Hes more about balancing brain chemistry but uses nutrition and exercise to do it. Even has studies quoted about how kids with ADD benifeted. (Makes sense huh?)
If Scotty doesn't mind I wopuld like to bend your ear about some stuff as I am getting back into physical fitness. Let me know if its OK. I don't wanna turn it into more work for you.
Kilted Is it true that spinach is mostly protien and that is why its more benificial in diets as opposed to boston and romaine?
Spinach has some protein in it as nearly all fruits and vegetables have some protien component to them. However, a serving is going to net you only a gram...maybe 2. But the protein quality is pretty poor. So there's no way I'd rely on spinach or any vegetable to get my daily need for protein. Overall spinach scores higher than romaine. However, romaine does have a higher mineral count than spinach in a few areas. So to exclude one for the other is not ideal.
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If Scotty doesn't mind I wopuld like to bend your ear about some stuff as I am getting back into physical fitness. Let me know if its OK. I don't wanna turn it into more work for you.
Nope don't mind at all. I'm on summer break, so I have quite a bit of extra free time on my hands. You can thread it on this site or my email is on my profile.
Thanx Kilted, I am telling my friend that a PROFESSIONAL told me that I can have ROMAINE again. WOOOHOOO. I don't like iceberg, so I had changed to romaine YEARS ago. I went to my doctor today to get my monthly B12 shot and I asked to get weighed. I am HAPPY to report that I have lost 85lbs since 6 months ago. WOOOHOOOO. I don't like milk, so I have been eating cheese instead. My friend is getting so mad at me. I told her I need to eat cheese because I don't like yogurt either. I could be eating better, but I am making small changes on a weekly basis.
On a Bamot front, I fell into a bit of a hole yesterday. I was at work and a man whom Bampot and I went to college with(who attended our wedding and even worked with Bampot for about 8 years at his current job) came in. He saw me and said, "Hi, how are you? How's Bampot and the boys doing?" I said, "Well, Bampot is having an affair with POSOW and left me 6 months ago to live with her." He was SHOCKED. He kept saying, "That is not like him. I never would have thought that HE would do something like that. I can't believe it. I am so sorry." I simply said, "You have nothing to be sorry about, you didn't do anything." Then it of course made me think about Bampot. I almost started to cry right there. It really makes me KNOW that Bampot wasn't like this before. He was a GREAT man and that GREAT man is still in there somewhere. That makes me KNOW that I was not wrong about him all of these years. The people who really know him are AMAZED at his actions of late.
We all know what happens in an affair. We all know how they get there. It is good to know I didn't start out with a husband that was a real POS. Hopefully, he will one day realize what a mess he has made out of his life and try to fix it. I am in Plan B, to ensure I have something left in the bank to attempt a recovery.
Thanx Kilted, I am telling my friend that a PROFESSIONAL told me that I can have ROMAINE again. WOOOHOOO. I don't like iceberg, so I had changed to romaine YEARS ago. I went to my doctor today to get my monthly B12 shot and I asked to get weighed. I am HAPPY to report that I have lost 85lbs since 6 months ago. WOOOHOOOO. I don't like milk, so I have been eating cheese instead. My friend is getting so mad at me. I told her I need to eat cheese because I don't like yogurt either. I could be eating better, but I am making small changes on a weekly basis.
Are you getting enough red meat? Those that don�t get enough beef in their diet can often suffer from not getting enough B12. When I�m looking at diet with someone else, I always look first at vegetables, then protein consumption, then fat consumption and what types of fat, and then fruits. Throw out all starchy vegetables (peas, carrots, etc), eat plenty of protein (1 gram of protein per pound of bodyweight or close), eat plenty of monounsaturated fats (think green olives) and omega 3s (fish oil), and eat primarily berries as fruit sources. Weight bearing exercises (more than using 5 pd weights) should be introduced�this becomes important for women as they age in dealing with osteoporosis. More muscle means metabolism is higher, we become more efficient at burning fat at rest, and we look and feel better.
One of the problems is so many people take exercise and diet advice from magazines and then pass this bad advice onto friends �hey dude/hey girl�I read in this magazine that��
I probably don't get enough red meat(what is ENOUGH BTW?). I prefer chicken but I don't even eat that daily. Like I said, I am a crappy eater. I am a HUGE carb girl. I know I have to cut that out. I drink plenty of water(last July is when I started drinking water, before it was pop/juice). I won't get into it right now, it is quite embarrassing really. It is BETTER than before and that is what is important.
I will definitely look into weight training too. Should I be doing that on the days that I am not going to the PT?
85lbs?? Wow good going! Scotty, I lost 30lbs after getting rid of all sugary drinks, upping my protein intake, cutting back on processed sugars and carbs and exercising every day. I am a carb addict as well. What married forever told me was that increasing protein would help me feel more satiated and less likely to eat too many bad carbs. I slipped lately but am ready to get back on track. I eat string cheese and yogurt every day because I don't drink milk. Sometimes I substitute sugar free pudding for the yogurt.
I probably don't get enough red meat(what is ENOUGH BTW?). I prefer chicken but I don't even eat that daily. Like I said, I am a crappy eater. I am a HUGE carb girl. I know I have to cut that out. I drink plenty of water(last July is when I started drinking water, before it was pop/juice). I won't get into it right now, it is quite embarrassing really. It is BETTER than before and that is what is important.
I will definitely look into weight training too. Should I be doing that on the days that I am not going to the PT?
I'd look at try and getting 4-8 ounces to start with on a daily basis. And I'd do weight training on your off days but get at least 1 day a week of rest. As your conditioning gets better, you can even combine the PT class and after weight training
Sugar free pudding, geez I hadn't thought of that.
I also have a problem with sauces. I put a sauce on EVERYTHING. SERIOUSLY, EVERYTHING. It is something I have been trying to cut back on.
Thanx FF. It sucked because whenever I have to tell someone, they have such pity in their eyes and it hurts. I don't want people to pity me. I want them to know that I am strong enough. It simply amazes me that so many people care. It is comforting to know that I did choose the right people to keep in my life. I have always surrounded myself with good friends who were good people. The not so good ones, weren't worth my time and energy. I always followed my gut in picking the people to grace with my presence(HAHAHAHAHA I couldn't type that with a straight face). I chose to have friends who made my life BETTER. That's why I am addicted to THIS place and all of YOU. My life is leaps and BOUNDS better than 8 months ago.
...I chose to have friends who made my life BETTER. That's why I am addicted to THIS place and all of YOU. My life is leaps and BOUNDS better than 8 months ago.
...I chose to have friends who made my life BETTER. That's why I am addicted to THIS place and all of YOU. My life is leaps and BOUNDS better than 8 months ago.
I have not posted to you and I have not read the middle of your very long thread but I did read a lot of the beginning and now a little of the end and I just want to say that I truly admire your strength. I don't know how you made it through what I read in the beginning and I see how hard this plan B is. I hope you are really doing OK.
Hang in there. Your work here with everyone else is wonderful. You are a very strong woman. (((hugs)))
Thanx DWG. I don't always feel like I am very strong, but I am a person that puts HIGH expectations on myself. If I slip ad even think about Bampot(my WH), I feel like kicking myself in the azz. I know that I am being a little hard on myself because I am NOT contacting Bampot AT ALL and that is HUGE. I am trying to make an EXCELLENT life for my kiddos and myself and I am saving myself from the drama of affairland. Some days, like today, as it is my DS9's 10th birthday, I am ANGRY at Bampot. He should be HERE with OUR son on his 10th birthday, instead of with WF. I got to listen to my DS7 sing "Happy Birthday" to my DS10(wow, how weird I am a mom of a 10 year old )this morning, albeit at 630am.
You guys are going to see in my head for another minute. You see, when I hear you all telling me that I am "strong" I don't really think that. I am a person who follows directions quite easily(always have). I can do almost anything, as long as I have instructions on how it is done. I feel the same with DrH. His books and this website are like a recipe for a GREAT marriage. The steps are easy to understand and they make PERFECT sense. Plan A was about making home as nice a place as possible and letting Bampot know that I would be willing to meet his ENs. Plan B is about NC with Bampot(I got that down).
Where I slip is about the thoughts and feelings. The moving on. I still wear my wedding ring, and the thought of taking it off makes my stomach turn. When people refer to Bampot as my, "Ex" I correct them. They think I am crazy, but I say, "We are still married." Can't get there yet. That is where I feel like I am NOT strong. I am not thinking about Bampot when I do things new in my life, but he is still there in the back of my head. There are times when I say, "When he comes home, will I do this? Will I change that?" I try to get that thought out of my head ASAP. That is where Plan B is harder for me. I "get" the NC with Bampot. It saves me. I am a work in progress for the thoughts and feelings.
Thanx DWG. I don't always feel like I am very strong, but I am a person that puts HIGH expectations on myself. If I slip ad even think about Bampot(my WH), I feel like kicking myself in the azz. I know that I am being a little hard on myself because I am NOT contacting Bampot AT ALL and that is HUGE. I am trying to make an EXCELLENT life for my kiddos and myself and I am saving myself from the drama of affairland. Some days, like today, as it is my DS9's 10th birthday, I am ANGRY at Bampot. He should be HERE with OUR son on his 10th birthday, instead of with WF. I got to listen to my DS7 sing "Happy Birthday" to my DS10(wow, how weird I am a mom of a 10 year old )this morning, albeit at 630am.
You guys are going to see in my head for another minute. You see, when I hear you all telling me that I am "strong" I don't really think that. I am a person who follows directions quite easily(always have). I can do almost anything, as long as I have instructions on how it is done. I feel the same with DrH. His books and this website are like a recipe for a GREAT marriage. The steps are easy to understand and they make PERFECT sense. Plan A was about making home as nice a place as possible and letting Bampot know that I would be willing to meet his ENs. Plan B is about NC with Bampot(I got that down).
Where I slip is about the thoughts and feelings. The moving on. I still wear my wedding ring, and the thought of taking it off makes my stomach turn. When people refer to Bampot as my, "Ex" I correct them. They think I am crazy, but I say, "We are still married." Can't get there yet. That is where I feel like I am NOT strong. I am not thinking about Bampot when I do things new in my life, but he is still there in the back of my head. There are times when I say, "When he comes home, will I do this? Will I change that?" I try to get that thought out of my head ASAP. That is where Plan B is harder for me. I "get" the NC with Bampot. It saves me. I am a work in progress for the thoughts and feelings.
LOL, I am the mother of 26 and 24 year olds! I do get that, it always seems weird but think of the great example you are setting. When GM told my sons what had happened they ran to my rescue. Even though they lived 65 miles away they paid such close attention and the "mothered" me right back because, like you, I was always there and my life was theirs while they grew up. Funny thing about pay-back, they gave me all I needed to continue to try to make this work and they loved me as hard as they could so I would have the strength to do it.
Are you by any chance an oldest child? You sound like me. I am a rule follower, I can do anything I set my mind to with the right directions and sometimes without. I will see whatever it is no matter how painful to the end doing my best to see that it works out. Come he** or high water I CAN make it work if by no other means than my stubbornness. Dr. Harley's books were line item what I always thought a marriage should be so they made such perfect sense that I was baffled that GM knew not one single thing about it, well actually I knew of course but still....how could a grown-up not know this stuff? Dr. Harley's magic is making it so easy to do. He put it all together and thought of all the right ways to make it happen. He is a genius with this stuff.
The thoughts and feelings will get better for you I hope. Just keep telling yourself that you deserve to respect yourself enough not to let BP hammer you the rest of your life. Do it, respect yourself. I am no where near through all of this so anything I say can be taken with a grain of *she barely gets through most of her days so.....(it is getting better).
What you are doing takes nerves of steel and a heart of gold even when broken. I was lucky enough that I did not have to do any of that so please, let me admire you for that .
Scotty, take the diet one day at a time. I started by eliminating bad things one at a time. Make eliminating sauces or switch to less bad sauces (ie less sugar) as a start.
((((Scotty and kiddies))))...Happy birthday wishes to DS10...I hope you all enjoy it...I dont know how waywards miss all these wonderful moments with their children, I just dont....LOL at DS7 singing at 630, how cute.....
I couldnt even imagine saying my "ex" until around the past few months, I still say my H (because he is), but in my head I think I could handle saying Ex now...it takes a while but you will get there if he doesnt come around...My Wedding rings are too small (I gained 50 lbs) so I didnt have to worry about that part, but I know what you mean....Its a slow process, i mean we thought we would be with them forever....Hang in there, Scotty....
PS my DS birthday is monday...teeheehee...and WH wont see him either....Waywards are [censored]e$!
Yes, I AM the oldest child. Funny how birth order really DOES affect the way you are as an adult.
I OFTEN type and speak the praises of DrH and his GENIUS. It is so easy to understand the way that he writes it and it is like a light bulb went off.
It is getting better too and I always make sure I share on here. There are some people who never post and only lurk. If someone else learns from my experiences, then I am paying back in the best way I can.
You guys are going to see in my head for another minute. You see, when I hear you all telling me that I am "strong" I don't really think that. I am a person who follows directions quite easily(always have). I can do almost anything, as long as I have instructions on how it is done.
Where I slip is about the thoughts and feelings. The moving on. I still wear my wedding ring, and the thought of taking it off makes my stomach turn. When people refer to Bampot as my, "Ex" I correct them. They think I am crazy, but I say, "We are still married." Can't get there yet. That is where I feel like I am NOT strong. I am not thinking about Bampot when I do things new in my life, but he is still there in the back of my head. There are times when I say, "When he comes home, will I do this? Will I change that?" I try to get that thought out of my head ASAP. That is where Plan B is harder for me. I "get" the NC with Bampot. It saves me. I am a work in progress for the thoughts and feelings.
I totally get this. Another first born here btw. I follow instructions well. I never PA's my now XH but I have seen the value of a BP (mine has been modified since I had no plans to salvage the marriage.) I have seen first hand that seeing him at the front door for 60 seconds could totally unravel the peace I'd gained over the previous 7 days of no contact.
I played little games with myself to try and 'get past' thinking of him. If I thought of relevant story to tell in someone's company that involved WXH I would mentally redirect my thoughts to a story that did not include him....I just don't want to talk about him right now...and that is REALLY difficult with my near 30 year relationship with him....same high school, same small home town...child togther...it is hard. But I find the less I speak his name the better I get. I am 6 months from the actual final divorce...just over a year of D-Day and a few days past the day he moved out and we never lived together again.
It is hard. But you are doing an outstanding job. Keep it up.
Had a really GREAT birthday with DS10. WOW, still getting used to him being 10. Went to see Marmaduke. FUNNY FUNNY movie. LOVED IT. Got mad at Bampot by 730, because I thought he wasn't calling DS10 to say, "Happy Birthday." Thought about how he was an azz for missing such an important day in our son's life. HIS LOSS.
Found this on Queenie's thread. I read it when I am not doing something else on here.
This one is by Mimi.
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QUOTE FROM QUEENIE "Here's the truth. I am truly SCARED to do something like that. I have no confidence that I am even worth it."
This is SOOO important. I wish I had the right words to convey this to you. It was one of the most important things that I learned.
I "GOT IT" after reading LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. Dodson said that, in all of his years of helping couples, he determined that the ones that reconciled after an affair were the ones in which the BS was willing to let the WS GO....he insists that the BS has to be "tough" and to gain the WS' respect..
This was actually CONFIRMED to me by my H...first, he was blown away when I talked with him, using the Dodson approach..I told you about my speech when I told him that "I was letting him go.don't want you until you want me"..I could tell that blew his mind..it was a real turning point..my ATTRACTION POINTS went way up...
Then, since RECOVERY and over the years lately, this has been confirmed. My H actually says stuff like: "It's not ATTRACTIVE to me for you to allow yourself to be disrespected" (talking about when our sons talk back to me, etc.). He LOVES it that I speak up for myself now. No one likes a wimp.
Plus, he has said that he lost respect for me those years when he was evidently having an affair, coming in all times of the night, missing in action and I SAID NOTHING or either YELLED (I'm a FIGHT or FLIGHTER).
It's about LOW SELF-CONFIDENCE. I didn't not VALUE MYSELF and did not recognize HOW MUCH MY HUSBAND LOVED ME. You said this, too, about yourself.
YOU WILL NEED TO GAIN HIS RESPECT or else why should he want YOU? He wants to be with someone who is WORTHY.
You are a PRECIOUS GEM. She is GLASS. Insist on getting what your rightfully deserve and if he does not step up and give that to you then YOU DON'T WANT HIM.
You will not WIN him back through BEGGING, PLEADING or BEING "NICE". He will not appreciate you as a person of value that way. Most importantly, you will not appreciate yourself.
What he is doing is WRONG! Stand up and speak the truth about that. Regardless of the part that you played in your marital issues, what he is doing NOW is WRONG, abandoning his family and not giving you what you rightfully deserve, giving it to another woman..WRONG, WRONG, WRONG..and he KNOWS THIS...
He is thinking of you as A FOOL for putting up with it and who wants to be with a FOOL?
Get my point?
It took me awhile to get this but get this now I do.
As I look back over my time here, I consider this one of the GREATEST GIFTS that I received from this forum.
I remain here for that sustenance.
The POWER helps me in my MARRIAGE to this day.
It weathers me through CONFLICTS with my H..yes CONFLICTS from which I used to FLEE..I walk head on into them and SPEAK MY TRUTH...and I see my H valuing ME and RESPECTING ME...AHHHH...PERSONAL POWER....I LOVE IT!!!
Becoming convicted to WORK YOUR PLAN will lead you HERE to where I am...
It has to be YOUR PLAN..not about HIM...
It has to be how YOU WANT TO CHANGE TO MAKE YOURSELF INTO A BETTER PERSON...
Then THE PLAN is REAL, SINCERE AND MEANINGFUL to YOU and that will be communicated to your WS and others....
Starting with the FOCUS ON YOURSELF prepares you for PLAN B which takes all the PERSONAL STRENGTH and CONVICTION a PERSON CAN BEAR...
It is hard to PERSEVERE AND ENDURE during PLAN B..it involves WITHDRAWAL from your WS and RECREATING YOUR LIFE...it did for me...
Yes, Plan B for me was ONLY 3 MONTH or so...but THE MENTAL PREPARATION, SOUL SEARCHING and LIFE CHANGES STARTED WAY BEFORE THEN on D-DAY...
I decided to CHANGE INTO THE NEW ME that I am today and have not turned back...and will not turn back...I WILL NOT BE THAT PERSON EVER EVER AGAIN...
I have a sense of PERSONAL POWER and PURPOSE..my H knows for sure that I WILL AND CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT HIM..I am certainly ENHANCED BY HIS PRESENCE IN MY LIFE..but also HIS LIFE IS ENHANCED BY ME....
I felt compelled to say this this morning...
I am so thankful for getting to this place...
It is VITAL FOR YOU GUYS..especially MY GIRLS..to get HERE, TOO..
{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}, to DS...... And .....on Bampot
Ya know, Mimi would have LOVE LOVE LOVED you. It's good to some of her stuff again.....(yes, I'm missing me some Mimi.... ). Personal Power and rising above were her specialties. Her special brand of love made many women on here survive and thrive. And quite honestly, you have it way WRONGGGGG when you say you aren't strong. Sure you may not "feel" it at times, but feelings are rather fleeting and should be used as a measure of WHO you are.
Where are you on Q's thread? Hers is an amazing transformation.........you'll truly enjoy it and learn a lot........
As Mimi would often say.....Upward and Onward.....
Not
Ps.....SUPER Congradulations on the weight lose.......
CD-Well to your DS3. I was wondering if it was the same day as I read your thread before.
Not, I am only about 16 pages in. I seem to have been BUSY the last few days and I only read when I am not reading current posts on here. I figure Queenie isn't going anywhere. I wanna see if she did go out for that frizbee team. That sounds like FUN and I didn't even know that it existed. It has given ME an idea.
HAPPY FATHER'S DAY TO ALL OF THE SPECTACULAR DADDYS OUT THERE.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I was wondering if anyone would miss me. Guess I shoulda warned you all that I would be SILENT(so unlike me even IRL). I took the kiddos to Great Wolf Lodge. It was SO much fun. I went on water slides for the first time since I was 14. OMG, that's 20 years. Our room was late being cleaned so they upgraded us for FREE. Saw some of my friends who work there and they told me that the next time I wanna go, I should get them to get me the friends rate. That would save me a tonne.
I was a little angry that Bampot didn't even try to call yesterday, but DS10 told me that he mentioned it to Bampot. Then I noticed that today, I had 3 missed calls. DSx2 checked their email and Bampot wrote them 3 emails. Phone died yesterday and he couldn't call. Then at 9:30 he wrote the he was sad they hadn't written him back. Today's was that he called 3 times and no one answered, was everyone okay? DS10 responded with this, "We slept at the GREAT WOLF LODGE. I don't need to say anymore." HAHAHAHAHAHA Great. Spent a bit of money but it was so worth it. The kiddos had a blast and the "pickle jar" is in the negatives now with that PLan A.
ETA, I am still in PLan B with my WH, I was referring to Plan Aing my kiddos.
I heard a guy on the radio say something about not feeling a quake. I didn't feel one. I am on the east coast. Was there supposed to be a quake today or something?
I heard a guy on the radio say something about not feeling a quake. I didn't feel one. I am on the east coast. Was there supposed to be a quake today or something?
I guess in Brookline (near Boston, MA) an office building was shaking and furniture was rolling around....So I guess I am just oblivious to anything...I felt NOTHING!!!!
I am in NJ near NYC and we felt the office building shake, blinds shook plants...strange as it is so far from here. Friends and family in OH felt it too!
I was at work and we never felt a thing there. I was on break at the time and a 24 year old girl texted my friend to tell us that she felt a quake at 145pm. We texted back, "What were you smoking today?" Then we heard from some customers that there really was a quake. Even funnier is that this morning we woke up, watched the weather network and there was a TORNADO WARNING. Now, my kiddos are scared. It's hard to tell them that these things DON' happen here when they happened on the same day. They closed the Brock Monument but that was about it here. It is a very inactive fault. A few people felt it but even people in the same house didn't feel it shaking.
I heard it was a 5.5. I guess in LA terms, that wouldn't even wake you up, right Pep? HEHEHEHE I was AMAZED that there was this much activity on my thread. I was wondering what you were all chatting about. HEHEHEHEHE
Reminds me of this skit Robin Williams did, he detailed LA/CA as God's etch-a-sketch.
'You get kinda blazej (sp?) about it. Like, oh, @$() -spills water- ...2.5, not bad....OH SH** -big water spill-...5.8, maybe we should have drinks outside.'
My boys are fine right now(other than the fact they are sleeping). It's just that they have seen things on TV about floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, and forest fires. I would always reassure them that there was nothing to worry about here. The worst things that happened in this area was blizzards. I told them that the earth quakes and tornadoes happen here but it is very rare. They are going to be fine about it.
When I was a kid, I heard about the doomsday clock. I heard it say something about, "five minutes to midnight." This caused me to not be able to go to sleep until 1205am EVERY NIGHT. THis habit carried over into adulthood, even though I knew it meant something I didn't understand at the time.
It was fun watching Canadian news people who are experiencing their FIRST QUAKE .... react ON CAMERA as the quake happened. One time, a local LA news guy, Kent SHOCKnek ( his name, for real) Climbed UNDER his news desk while on camera. He took a ton of flack for that, but to his credit, these were pretty forceful aftershocks and there are HUGE heavy lights over his head.
OMG Canadians are HYSTERICAL. I am watching a show on discovery about earthquakes. On Space, they have the movie "tremors" playing. All because of the quake yesterday. HAHAHAHAHA
So, I was at my parent's house last night and I was talking to my mom(she makes me angry with her fog-talk, ARGH). She was telling me that my Dad won her back by all of the things he was doing while she was gone. She says that my Dad was all she ever thought about while she was with her "thing." I mentioned my thoughts about my own sitch and that as I read other people's stories of recovery and what happened with my parents, that I sometimes wonder if I should be having more contact with Bampot(just thoughts). My mom said that she agrees with what I am doing and that Bampot does know that I love him and that I have always loved him.
Sometimes these silly thoughts creep in. At the better times, I am COMPLETELY sure about my steps. Sometimes the doubts creep in. I am NOT wavering in my convictions to do the BEST Plan B that I can muster, I am just sharing my thoughts to help others who are feeling the same thing. You are not alone. We are in this together.
About the only thing I would change about your Plan B is a planned "Look how well I'm doing now that you're gone". Sometime when Bam is scheduled to pick up the kids, and if the OW is with him...the better...make sure you are dressed to go out, clingy dress, makeup, hair done, smelling great. Follow the kids out, lock up the house and leave behind them, start walking down the street to the bus stop, wild side of town, wherever. If you had a car available, pack a bag and put it in the trunk and leave as they are leaving.
What he doesn't know is it may just be a gym bag and you are going to work out, or walk, or you are just going to take a rid into town and back...
But what this will do for you and for him, is give him a chance to see the new bod, after all the weight loss, the toned flesh, that you are doing better without him, not just surviving, but thriving. You are moving on. And will give you a chance to let him know you are not waiting around, but enjoying life, not waiting around for him moping, waiting by the phone.
I think WS have this fantasy that they will always have the BS to come back to, that we are just waiting around for them. Why? Because we told them we would, but we are not putting our life on hold for them...
Now, do not put too much thought into this or it will hurt and withdraw love units. Just let it come naturally.
Stillhere, thanx. There were 2 "operation: olive branches" that were given in Feb and April.
Problem with your scenario is that Bampot picks up the kiddos at 9 AM every Sunday and every other Saturday. Bampot knows, through DSx2 that I am out and about and that we do A LOT of fun things. DS10 lets him know about all of the new things we get. DS10 even said that thing about "We had to go to FRIEND'S house today because Mommy was out with MAN'S NAME(personal trainer)." There was one time that Bampot called and I was sending them to bed early. DS10 said, "We have to go to bed early because of HIM. (pause) No Daddy, DS7, who else?" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA gotta love it.
I am not focusing too much on those things. I do agree that I need to get out more and have fun without the kiddos. I am working on it. I really never was that kind of person, I am a home body and so was Bampot.
I am not focusing too much on those things. I do agree that I need to get out more and have fun without the kiddos. I am working on it. I really never was that kind of person, I am a home body and so was Bampot.
Hey Scottie,
I have found getting out with friends and socializing to be really therapeutic. And getting into new activities has been really enjoyable. Maybe you would have a similar response......
Thanx for checking in TBC. I know that I need to get out more. I just like to chill out at home and read on the computer.
I was out at Marineland all day today with the kiddos school. I really haven't even been home for more than 2 hours a day(other than sleeping) in almost 2 weeks. The kiddos will be done school for the summer on Tuesday. Still need to get things done. Then I will have to entertain 2 kiddos while I am not working/working out. THis should be an interesting summer.
I know I will have MB to fall back on and for that I am GRATEFUL.
So, I was at my parent's house last night and I was talking to my mom(she makes me angry with her fog-talk, ARGH).
Hey Scottie,
Yeah, that puke-o-la is hard, but keep in mind that even once the wayward returns to the marriage to work on Recovery, the fog doesn't immediately disperse. In fact, I get a bit "leary" when it does. It usually takes at least as much time to leave as it did to come, generally about a year. So, just think of this time with your mom as a "practice" run for if/when Bampot returns....
As far as your "thoughts" in Plan B and the "what-ifs"....NORMAL....when that happens, go scrub the toilets....its better use of your mental energy.....
As far as your "thoughts" in Plan B and the "what-ifs"....NORMAL....when that happens, go scrub the toilets....its better use of your mental energy.....
At least those that carried out a solid MB Plan can say we did EVERYTHING we did to save our M. I gives us a small amount of comfort.
At least we find peace in ourselves unlike the waywards who only search for their "happiness" by any means necessary despite the collateral damage.
Well, today I saw Bampot and WF. Didn't really mean to. I was walking Scooch and right at the corner of my street, a friend stopped to talk to me. I didn't realize what time it was. Bampot drove by, with WF in the passenger seat. My stomach sank. I walked the rest of the way to the house. DSx2 got out of the car and so did Bampot. He quickly hugged the kiddos and then he looked over, saw me and put his head down. I was walking up behind the car, so I couldn't see WF. I was giving the "stink eye" into her mirror though. They drove away before I got to the car. Well, close encounter of the wayturd kind sucks. I almost had one yesterday too. I missed the bus(it drove past me when I was about 1/2 a block away from the stop, and they WON'T wait). I went to call someone for a ride and my cell phone was dead. There isn't a payphone anywhere on my way home so I walked. I booked it and made it home at 633pm. Bampot dropped off DSx2 at 638pm.
Stillhere, it wasn't the way you wanted, but it was a "sighting." So unintended. I will not do that again. The only reason I was walking scooch before Bampot came was because DS10 was sick yesterday and today and he would only lay down. Scooch needed a walk, since she didn't get one yesterday either.
This is my first time to post on your thread and I want to say thanks for all your help toward me even though you are in your own plan B.
I've found that I struggle more when I sit at my house as I'm a homebody also. I just like to clean-up, read, get on my computer, etc. Lately, I think more about WH instead of keeping busy around the house.
I feel so much better when I get out of the house and have an agenda or go visit a friend.
Scotland, this is my first time posting on your thread, but i've read it (mostly) from the beginning--i'm so...favorably impressed with you!
you've style and grace to spare, and you're a fabulous, FABULOUS mom. you're sweet, clever, candid, honorable, determined, and utterly charming. your husband, [censored] that he currently is, would suffer a great loss if he ever gave you up, and i respect you even more for KNOWING that.
you're a brilliant wife and mom and an admirable woman in general. plus, as you've no doubt heard, an inspiration to us all. cheering avidly for you, Scotland!
HopeE, I "get" what you are saying and I am really trying to change it. I need to get "out" and do more without the kiddos. This is especially going to be true after Tuesday(when they get off of school, I will MOST DEFINITELY need some "ME time."
I need to find things in my life that makes me feel joy(other than raising my kiddos, since soon enough, they will move out). Still trying to figure out what I want to be when I "grow up." I am at the age that when I go back to school, I want to go to school once and LOVE what I am doing.
There is still real room for improvement in me, and I am willing to do the work. It brings me JOY to learn how to be a better person and these MB concepts CAN translate to other people in my life. People around me are noticing. Improvements physically and in ME. I get compliments all of the time. Saddest thing I can say about that, is that there is really only ONE person I wish was telling me those things. Ahhhh. I WILL get better.
I have met her face to face twice before DDay of the PA and believe me, THAT was time of real restraint. I am trying to make WF NOT matter to me. I have read on other people's threads that if there is ever accidental encounters of the wayturd kind, that I am to act "nice" to Bampot and treat WF like she doesn't exist and that she means NOTHING. I have been practicing my "stink eye" look that I reserve just for WF.
Best every F2F meeting between a BW and OW I ever read here on MB was one where the BW just looked the OW up and down and then... just dismissed her as though she didn't exist.
I woulda done that had I not been about 4 houses away and only seeing the back of the car. I wish I would have looked into the car and given her a real dismissive look. I was going to say, "next time," but I really hope that there will NEVER be a next time. If there is, I WILL be prepared.
I thought about it last night when I was in bed. I shoulda blew a kiss. HAHAHAHAHAHA. Now THAT would have been something. HEHEHEHEHE
I know the economy stinks right now, but look into your public library and other community activities for kids. Quite a lot of programs for the community have been cut around here right now, but there still are a few available.
Summer workshops/camp/activites are usually low cost- (well can be low cost). Best thing yet is that they can last a few weeks or more, and that gives kids something to look forward to.
How about dog training classes? This can be way fun, and the pup benefits.
Scotty, that must have hurt seeing them...IDK how I am gonna handle seeing WH with OW, but I hope it is as calm as you...I prolly will go home and cry after...I wonder if we give WH a little smirk and act friendly, if the OW would get mad cuz they would be suspicious...cuz they already dont trust each other, we know that.
March/09, I found cell phone calls between them starting in July/08. I confronted him and then I asked her to come and speak to me. I remember that day so vividly. At one point I said, "The biggest mistake I have made in my life was allowing Bampot to talk you out of quitting your job." She replied with a smirk on her face and said, "Do you really think he would have stopped talking to me." I wanted to PLOW her right in the mouth. I am not easily angered but when I get mad, I BLOW. I also can hold a grudge.
There are a lot of things I would have done differently if I had found MB a couple of years ago. Maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far, maybe it would have. I believe that had I not gone through all of the things I had up until I found MB, I wouldn't have been as willing to do all of the things people asked me to in their posts. I was so hopeless and depressed and I felt so lost. I found MB and it was like an answer to all of my prayers. I am so happy.
I cant believe that you didnt punch her in the mouth...I would have ended up in jail if it were me...I found MB a little later too....I did all the begging, crying and pleading and worse...I was pathetic. This forum was also my life saver. Either way we will both be fine...
Yeah, I am jealous too, Scotty...I really hope you have your chance to R your M.....I sometimes think its better when they move in with OW because I think it blows up faster...My WH just sees OW a couple times a week, so I think that keeps the A going longer...
I don't think about how it will affect the outcome of the A because I am in Plan B(okay maybe I think about it a little ). I do wonder how they can stand being together 24/7. They live together and work side by side and Bampot has given up playing pool. He LOVES playing pool. It shows me how much he had to change to be this new "thing" that he is. Oh well.
One more day until th kiddos are out of school for the summer. We are watching Superman right now. I bought all of the Superman, Xmen and Batman movies for the kids(they already had Spiderman). It's so cute watching them watch them for the first time. They are loving it so far even with the cheesy special effects.
Yup, those are my sons kinda movies....seen them all countless times...He loves them, Batman are his favorites though...I love the summer with ds...One of the batman movies my son was scared of and wouldnt watch it, he doesnt like scary at all though so your kids might be okay. It had this really creepy bagheaded guy in it...if you want Ill ask him which one when he gets home.
Hmmmmm I've watched all of them and I don't remember that guy. They were a little scared by Dark Night when they first watched it with my Mom last year, but they are over that now. DS10 talks about wanting to see the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. I told him, "No way, no how. I enjoy sleeping ALONE."
My son said it was "Batman Begins"...It was at the beginning and he might not have even been in the rest of the movie...but once my DS saw him he said "Shut if off"....and he doesnt even want to see Dark Night, it looked to scary for him in the commercials a few years ago.
Yeah, my DS is kindof a scaredy cat when it comes to movies. So if your DS wants to see Nightmare on Elm St then he is probably fine with the batman...I was scared of Nightmare on Elm St and I was a teenager, I had nightmares for weeks...
Some kids in my sons class when he was in second grade saw the "Saw" movies, I dont know what some of these parents are thinkin...although, I let my son see "kick a$$" and I kind of regretted after, it was a little too violent. It had some worse than usual swear words in it too, luckily he didnt notice...
My kids think that "stupid" and "shut up" are swear words too. HEHEHEHEHEHE.
My DS10 isn't that scared of things but he does get nightmares more than DS7 so that's why I have decided it is a no go. I couldn't even imagine someone letting their child watch the Saw movies. They creeped me out. Saw VI is a sore spot for me because that is what Bampot watched with WF. ARGH. I want my movie back.
Not your fault. They show up now and again you know. It is something I will take back. They watched it together on October30th, 2009. It was the first time Bampot ever went out and stayed out all night. It was also the day that I found MB. I thought that was funny.
They watched it together on October30th, 2009. It was the first time Bampot ever went out and stayed out all night. It was also the day that I found MB. I thought that was funny.
How NOT romantic. During my H's first A he had to remake himself COMPLETELY into this fantasy person so OW would be impressed. Some days I fantasize about what would have happened had he run off with her. They would have lasted a few months at best. Honestly he is a pack rat to the max (bordering on hoarder) and she was a neat freak. She is well educated and he has zero confidence in his own intelligence. She was athletic and loved to do outdoor activities. His favorite activity is sleeping in front of the TV. Well...you get the picture.
The 2nd OW now that is altogether different. She is just plain living in outer space. She would have accepted him baggage and all until she got tired of him like she does all men. By that time he would have probably been as looney tunes as her.
Scotty, I sure do hope and pray your WH pulls his head out of his *ss and soon. Yours too, stilly.
Thanx Faith. I already knew that Bampot has this stick his head in the sand attitude about life. I know that he can ignore things that bug him for quite a while. That is how I knew I would be in it for the long haul. I am NOT surprised that Bampot is still not home. It is funny that you talk about your FWH's first OW. It is almost the same with WF. It is weird thinking about the person that my WH is with now. IT is so NOT who he would have ever chosen at any regular time in his life. Even though I was his first real GF(he was almost 19), I KNOW what his "type" is. WF most definitely did not fit that. I guess she had to change too.
There are a lot of issues that I am going to have to deal with when/if he comes home. I am making myself as strong as possible that I won't accept SCRAPS. I am worth MORE than SCRAPS.
That bar is going to be HIGH and I am going to need all of the 2x4's to remind me that I WILL NOT SETTLE FOR LESS. Now_what can feel free to quote me back to myself. I will welcome all of that.
Well Scotty All I can say is that in time your WH will realize he traded his marriage to an awesome woman,(albeit human), for a load of problems he will wish he didn't go to.
But that would be if he comes to his senses, and from what you describe him as a father, I have faith he will.
Untill then yes the things you are going thru will change you and make you stronger, a personal strength you will need when he comes back, for both of you.
The wait for a whole marriage is worth it, even sometimes when you see no gaurantees.
Should you decide to send one final olive branch just prior to moving on, you can give him a pool stick with a ribbon tied on, and a little note saying, "This is your final cue."
Should you decide to send one final olive branch just prior to moving on, you can give him a pool stick with a ribbon tied on, and a little note saying, "This is your final cue."
Should you decide to send one final olive branch just prior to moving on, you can give him a pool stick with a ribbon tied on, and a little note saying, "This is your final cue."
Good one Neak!
You're great Neak. At least it was good for a laff.
Geez, I need to go NC with my Mom. Her wayturd fog-babble is ridiculous. She again stated that she didn't have SF with THING before she walked out on my Dad so Bampot is so much worse than she is. Then she said again that it isn't WF's fault and she isn't to blame at all because Bampot is the one who left. And what reason did Bampot start his affair with WF? He had NO REASON to start his affair. He is an AWFUL person for leaving me when I have young children. At least she didn't do anything when we were young. BLAH BLAH BLAH. The best was when I said, "I can't believe that you don't see how much you have hurt OUR relationship." She said, "I NEVER HURT YOU." I said, "Yes you did. It's sad that you don't realize it. You hurt me by your actions and what you keep saying to justify your affair." Then my Dad was coming downstairs and she said we could talk about it later.
Oh I almost forgot. I said that Bampot had an affair for the same reason she did, they had weak boundaries and CHOSE to have na affair. She said, "You are reading books from only ONE doctor. He doesn't know what he is talking about." Then she told me about how the psychologist she was seeing told her that it was sad about the things going on with me. Really?? Why were they talking about MY problems without ME? ARGH WAyturds
HAPPY CANADA DAY.
On the Bampot front, I am starting to have stinkin thinkin. I wonder if my Plan A wasn't long enough or effective enough. Did I not do enough and that's why it didn't work? I know I need to not have these thoughts but they are there. MOST affairs end within 6 months of being exposed. Well, apparently, WF and Bampot have beat the odds. If we get to the 2 year mark, will that really mean they are better together? Oh I hate my thoughts. I miss my DH. Bampot isn't worth a grain of salt. I don't think I threw enough pebbles and now I feel a bit hopeless. It is a horrible feeling to crawl into my head like that. Just have to get it out there. I am having a HORRIBLE day for no particular reason than my stupid head.
Now off to Canada Day celebrations and then off to the big city of TORONTO to celebrate my grandma's 87th birthday.
Spending the day with my MOM isn't going to be GREAT but at least I will be with my kids too.
Sometimes I wonder if some waywards ever "get it". Maybe some take a lot longer or they just are so good at repressing guilt that they never do....and in talking to your mother you are getting firsthand how waywards think.
Scotty, no more stinking thinking....hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20....You did the best you could do at the time...
I miss my WH too, its like a death in that our H died and right now they are WH. WH looks a lot like our old H, but they are not. All we can hope for is that deep down inside there is still H and he will come back. We both know that GOd is on our side and working in our WH heart.
Have a great day with your children...and Happy Birthday to your grandma....
Scotty, try to stop the negative thinking as soon as it starts. Offer yourself a (sugar free) cookie when your thinking starts to get wayward. You did the best you could and you found MB! Think how bad things would be if you were "going along" with Bampots A and his justifications for it. Think how sick your kids would be with all the confusion of mom "accepting" blame and the A. Dr. H says plan A does not work on all affairs but your best shot is plan A along with exposure and then plan B.
Whatever the outcome YOU are a better YOU for all the changes you have made.
Well, I had an okay day yesterday after I wrote that pos. I know what got me into that place. First, on Wednesday morning I had a dream where Bampot said, "I am trying to break up with OW. I just don't know how." That was at 5am and it stuck with me all day. Then Canada Day celebrations. Last year, we went to those celebrations with my Mom and her "thing." Horrible memories. Then, I hadn't seen my grandma since Bampot left. I only talked to her once too and that was last month. I couldn't because I knew how much she would hurt over this. She knew. My sister told her because I simply couldn't. Well, yesterday, she did talk to me and I cried. While I was crying, DS10 walked up to my grandma and said, "Don't make my mom cry. She has cried enough already." What an AMAZING thing for him to say.
I rode in the car with my dad and kiddos and my Mom was with my sister. It takes 1.5 hours each way so there was some time to talk, while the kids were sleeping. I told my Dad that my Mom and I fought yesterday morning. Then he said something that I thought was PERFECT. He said, "She treats her time living with THING like she went away on vacation. She just doesn't get it." I think that was a perfect way to explain it.
Today is a new day and I am determined to make it a better day.
MOST affairs end within 6 months of being exposed.
Scotty, I'm curious about where you got this statistic. I always thought that Dr. H said most of the time Plan A does NOT end the affair and that it's possible it could take 2 years or longer in Plan B. Just curious where you read that.
I agree, stop the stinkin thinkin. I wonder if being around your mom triggers a lot of that for you. I know she's your mom and that you love her, but maybe you should step away a bit from her, at least while you're going through this?
Thanx Pep. I hope to leave better memories for my children when I am gone. That is one of my goals in life. So much so that every time we see a white butterfly(okay it is a cabbage moth, but REALLY white butterfly sounds so much better) I have a tradition that I say, "White butterfly, Mommy loves you." That way, when I am gone, they will see these white butterflies and KNOW that I love them.
I am going to have to go on the hunt now and find where I saw that stat PM. I KNOW that Plan A doesn't work in the majority of cases but I remember reading something about that the majority of affairs end within 2 years of exposure and the majority of those end within 6 months. I will hunt and scour the words.
I also agree that dealing with my Mom sends my head into a tailspin. I am just trying to make it about my kiddos and that's IT. She can stop trying to justify herself to me because I KNOW there is NO JUSTIFICATION for what she did. I just hope that someday she will see that too. I sometimes look at it like a practice for Bampot's homecoming(if that happens) and I try to deal with it the best I can. I also see what would happen if you tried recovery without a clear PLAN. I am so GLAD I found this place.
Your wayward mom (WM) stories have hit me hard. I miss my Mom and MIL so very much.
I appreciate their good character traits long after they have left this life. I feel so blessed.
I wish your mom had more wisdom, more to offer her children and her husband.
I am reading your thread with new perspective.
You are one hell'of'a woman.
You are very blessed, Pep. You know my situation with my mom and MIL. I thank God for MB. I thank God for second chances to BE the better mom and better example for my kids than what I started out as. I am thank God for bringing people like you into my life.
Your wayward mom (WM) stories have hit me hard. I miss my Mom and MIL so very much.
I appreciate their good character traits long after they have left this life. I feel so blessed.
{{{{{Pep}}}}},
Well now we know where all that wisdom comes from. They blessed you, you bless us!....
No one on here asks those though provoking questions like you......thank you
{{{{{Faith}}}}}
You are a story of strength and character. I'm reading your story right now (saw someone else reading it and thought I'd take a gander......). It's amazing to me how many women think motherhood is a given right instead of a responsibility. And a blessing.......
t/j over
Quote
You are one hell'of'a woman.
{{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}},
Plan B' ing your mom is an idea to entertain, though I do suggest at least limiting your contact for now. You KNOW I'm in Plan B with my mom, though it's not due to an active affair and its for many different reasons, I will say my life has been much calmer and peaceful for it. It's a sad truth, but a truth none-the-less.
When you do interact with her, try not to argue you're different situations. You know the rule around here.....talking with a wayward can be crazy-making......
Just state your truths and change the subject. Offer her the tater chip.....
Now as far as her "I'm-not-as-bad-as-Bampot"...... ALL wayward say that. I think it's because they look at others situation in horror and have a hard time reconcilliating that with themselves. It's not easy to admit you've been a terrible person. My sister said the same thing regarding H, citing all the silly reasonings why, and H said the same thing regarding sis. We BS's KNOW better. Infidelity is bad no matter what........hopefully one day mom's fog will clear and when it does it won't be pretty.
Until then, yep, this is a practice run.........
{{{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}}}}
Not
Ps......your Plan A was great!!!!! Stop doubting......
You are a story of strength and character. I'm reading your story right now (saw someone else reading it and thought I'd take a gander......). It's amazing to me how many women think motherhood is a given right instead of a responsibility. And a blessing.......
Thank you, not! Good luck with the reading. I think I am scattered all over these boards, lol.
Scotty,
not is right. You need to really limit your convos with WM for your own sanity.
BTW, I forgot to say "right on" to your dad. He is one smart man.
Well, I was telling myself that I couldn't post on my own thread until I found the reference I was looking for. I have read so much on this site, that I honestly can not remember. I think it was in a thread where others were discussing affairages. I wish I could remember it. I know other people must have seen it too because I remember people commenting on the fact that 6 months out if an affair is still going on, it's because they are driving themselves into a wall. BELIEVE ME. I DID NOT think that this Plan B would be over in 6 months. I had a little hope, sure. But I was pretty sure this would be going on for another year at least. I don't think about it much, the end of the affair that is, but I do prepare for the start of recovery. I don't want to be unprepared and set the bar too low.
Now, I have to get back to reading the threads that I have been reading while looking for the source of my intel . Pep bumped a thread that I am caught up in and I still have Queenie's thread on the go as well as the one Pep linked. I think I have a problem.
Kinda weird reading the renter/buyer/freeloader thread and realizing that part of the intent of Plan B is to change a faithful buyer into a renter. EEEKS. I will read on, and LEARN.
I realized that to do a TRUE Plan B, I need to become a renter in my marriage. There really isn't a marriage right now. I don't know what I am holding on to. I won't take off my wedding ring. It makes my stomach turn just to think about doing it. I start crying thinking about it. The last person to place the ring on my finger was my DH.
I don't like it when people call Bampot my "ex." I am still married. How do I do it? How do I let go? I don't mean that I am going to give up on ever getting marital recovery. I am not there yet. I just mean, I need to "Let go, and let GOD."
I don't feel like I am faking my Plan B, just that I haven't gotten to the full extent yet. I guess I have to be willing to never have Bampot in my life anymore. ARGH.
Pep, thanx but why you gotta do this? HEHEHEHEHE.
I gotta stop feeling sorry for myself. I have to continue to make improvements in myself. I KNOW I am worth it. I KNOW I will be okay.
WOW. I am sitting here thinking about taking off my wedding ring, tears are streaming down my face. I can't do it. It is such a HUGE part of who I AM. Who I always wanted to be. Is that the problem? Is it tied to tightly into me that I can't see past it? I don't know if I will ever get there. After Bampot took off his ring(DH always said that that was a HUGE symbol and he would NEVER take it off, HA, NEVER SAY NEVER), all I thought about was how he would put it back on. He carried it in his pocket for a week after he took it off. What would it take for him to wear it again? If I take mine off, when would I wear it again? Would I ever? ARGH. I guess this is a day for working on my emotions for me.
The rings are so symbolic. I made H take his off. The next day he put it back on. I was NOT the boss of him! LOL I took mine off about 2 weeks later and put it in the ash tray of my car. Also symbolic. Ashes. As in .... Phoenix rising from the ashes. I can't exactly remember when or why I put it back on. But I do remember I felt tons better NOT wearing mine. Our kids were young at the time and it bugged them that my ring was off my finger.
I took it off. I am going to take a shower, cry some more and go to bed. It's off to work for me tomorrow morning. I am NOT giving up on a marital recovery but I don't have a marriage right now so why have the symbol? It's going in the safe place where I have Bampot's ring. It may stay there forever. A symbol of an important time in my life. A chapter has ended. Only a chapter though. Now on to the next one. I CAN do this. Thank you all.
Scotty, I decided to read part of your thread after the help you are giving me. You are amazing, that after all you are going through, you are here giving help and support to others. I feel bad for you, but happy for you because your trials have made you an amazing person. I know I'm too new here to carry any weight, but you deserve a huge pat on the back for your progress and giving back to this site. Thank you.
What I have heard, anyway, is that around 6 months from the start of Plan B is reasonably common, but many make it to about the 2-year mark before collapsing. Very few make it past that.
About rings -- OW flushed D!ck's down the toliet when they were living together -- pre-D being filed. He came home without the ring. I asked. I cried. I couldn't believe the nerve of that bimbo.
As for my ring... I kept it on until he filed. Felt HE didn't deserve me. I also felt that my ring didn't mean the same without D!ck's ring. Felt that should we ever get back together -- with a NEW marriage -- it would be befitting to get new rings.
Wishful thinking on my part.
As for true Plan B... when you can detach. Wait til he turns mean. He will. They all seem to. The more time he spends with OW, the more he HAS to start turning on you to justify her.
Mine took a while to turn mean. And he's made up for lost time.
I know what you mean. Hard to believe that WH can change that much. Who is this man and what has he done with my husband?
What message does Plan B send Bampot? I wanna say, "I DON'T CARE." Really, all it shows Bampot is that I was NOT willing to continue to have a marriage like the one we had. That THIS is what reality of without me is.
What message does Plan B send YOU? That I CAN live on without Bampot and that I AM strong. That this is what life would be like after a divorce.
Scotty, I decided to read part of your thread after the help you are giving me. You are amazing, that after all you are going through, you are here giving help and support to others. I feel bad for you, but happy for you because your trials have made you an amazing person. I know I'm too new here to carry any weight, but you deserve a huge pat on the back for your progress and giving back to this site. Thank you.
Thanx A-wok. I feel like I received so much, this is the best way to say thank you. There are times though when I am in a bad headspace and I CAN NOT help someone else. I need to get my head on straight first. Many posters who haven't posted in a while have also helped me because I read old threads too. That's why I always suggest it to newbies.
I can't even fathom the thought of OW flushing the ring down the toilet, WOW. How did you not BLOW? I don't know how I would have dealt with that. I did make sure to tell OW, the night I had installed the keylogger, that when Bampot took off his ring, he carried it in his pocket for a week until I asked him for it.
As far as if/when Bampot becomes MEAN, it really doesn't matter to me anymore. I am prepared for everything he can throw at me. It WILL affect me, but I am prepared for it all. Every time I have something in my mail box, I expect it to be a legal document about something. I am preparing for the moment when my children say they want to sleep at OW's house. I am prepared to deal with things as they come. I will still need the board though.
I can't even fathom the thought of OW flushing the ring down the toilet, WOW. How did you not BLOW? I don't know how I would have dealt with that. I did make sure to tell OW, the night I had installed the keylogger, that when Bampot took off his ring, he carried it in his pocket for a week until I asked him for it.
As far as if/when Bampot becomes MEAN, it really doesn't matter to me anymore. I am prepared for everything he can throw at me. It WILL affect me, but I am prepared for it all. Every time I have something in my mail box, I expect it to be a legal document about something. I am preparing for the moment when my children say they want to sleep at OW's house. I am prepared to deal with things as they come. I will still need the board though.
You are doing an amazing job. I need to work on preparing myself for 'the next thing.' It is brutal though.
I wrote this to you last night. Somehow, I put it on the ORIGINAL thread when I meant to put it on yours....that's what I get for post on drugs. That should be the new motto...."No Posting while Intoxicated".....
Originally Posted by not2fun
{{{{{Scottie}}}}}},
Here's a post to me from a gifted VET Starfish. She posted this to me when I was in my Plan B. I was posting under the pseudo name Jillyju because H had found out about MB and was following (or stalking...... ) my postings. She had some profound things to say to me.......
Originally Posted by star*fish
Hi Miss Jilly
In this painful state, it may be hard for you to see just how incredibly well you're doing. I just want to remind you that you are exhibiting extreme grace under fire, and when you think of your life....don't forget to be thankful of your intellect, presence of mind, and good piloting skills. "Loving and protective detachment" (Plan B) is very difficult to execute....but even when you've stumbled....you've picked yourself up and refocussed. Good for you. It might sound silly to say "I'm proud of you" (being a perfect stranger and all), but I am. I see the courage of a lion and the heart of recovery warrior.
Right now, your focus needs to be on recovery....specifically....YOURS.
If you can remain safely OUT of the line of fire and away from the chaos of infidelity....you can flourish with or without your husband. That doesn't mean you'll lose your yearning for him. It does mean that he won't be able to hurt you every second of every day. In those interims (which will grow longer and longer) you will find Jilly and the capacity to be happy independently from marriage and infidelity.
Happy people are simply amazingly attractive and confidence is contagious. The confidence you show in the future <despite> WH's confusion....is "catching" and inspiring. So guard your vulnerabilities....beef up your intermediary. Take the steps to block his email and anticipate his "moves" (like showing up at events). Put power back into your locus of control....because you can't control what HE does....but you can absolutely without a doubt take full control of what you do. You can ACT instead of react. You can forge a new path that isn't defined by pain and rejection.
]Plan B is a time of rebuilding personal power, confidence, beauty, spirit.
Don't waste ONE minute of it thinking about what he is doing. Spend every single minute thinking about how to make your life infectious and generous. Personally, I love to see people spend Plan B doing charitable work....reaching out and growing in ways that are hampered by feelings of loss and lack of self worth. Make a difference in someone else's life....starting with your children.
Your daughter needs you. And she needs to see a woman who can THRIVE under any circumstances. Show her that she can do it too...because life is fraught with challenges and no one is immune.
Faith and Hope are not the enemy....it's where you focus those things that can be destructive.
hugs to you
star*
The words highlighted are my gift to you. Sapphire stated today in Sol's thread the true goal in MB Plans was a happy marriage. I, myself disagree. It may have been my goal at first, but as I got further into my Plan the TRUE goal became to become a BETTER and WONDERFUL ME, no matter what the outcome of my marriage.......
That, my dear friend, is what I hope for YOU!!!!!!
Not
Ps.....if my last couple of posts see, a bit out there.....well, I'm a bit strung out on Vicodine.......
I chipped my tooth.....
Just remember one thing, Recovery, no matter if its personal or marital, is a marathon, not a sprint.....Have a great day sweetie....
Not, Actually, I saw the thread had been bumped and I started reading it. Something made me look at who bumped it and I saw your post. So, I got it anyways.
I am aware that recovery is a marathon and I am ready for it. I felt like I was standing still in regards to Bampot. I was thinking about him WAY too often. I know that I am NOT giving myself enough credit and I am HARD on myself, DS10 really does come by it honestly. It's just that I need to PUSH myself. I have NOT given up on a possibility of marital recovery and seeing what my parents are going through, I can see just how difficult it is first hand. I think that's part of the reason I can't seem to stay away. It's hard though. I think my Dad just isn't into it anymore.
One foot in front of the other. I still need to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.
I must say, it feels really weird NOT wearing the ring and I almost wanted to put it back on but I am a person who pushes TRHOUGH things that are difficult because I know there are great things on the other side. I am moving forward again and that makes me HAPPY.
Found my new favourite show. AIR DOGS on Discovery Civilization. LOVE IT.
Got a dining room table today. FIRST one I have owned. DSx2 were so excited when it was being delivered, by my sister, they stayed awake to see it. Funny thing is, it only came with 3 chairs HAHAHAHA. Don't worry, we have 2 more different ones for company.
DSx2 already staked their claim on their chairs. DS10 want the head of the table, and DS7 wants me to sit in between them. Such cuties.
I've had some questions about WHY I took off my wedding ring now. The best response I have come up with is, "I had to focus on my personal recovery and remove WIFE from my label. I am not a wife right now because I don't have a husband to be a wife to." NOT giving up on marital recovery if Bampot takes his chance for it. Not ME who gets the chance now though, it will be Bampot who is the lucky one to get that chance. I was chuckling inside as I typed that line. Bampot is NOT in charge. WOW. Clearer picture on that one. Thanx for that NUDGE Pep. Thanx for all of the support everyone else(too many to name individually, I would be afraid to forget someone).
I guess my dream last night was along this line.
My DREAM was that I was sleeping. DS7 came upstairs and said, "Daddy is home." Bampot comes into my room, lays down on the bed behind me and wraps his arms around me. I say, "Is the affair over?" He says, "Yes." I say, "Are you ready to do whatever I ask?" He says, "I will do ANYTHING that you ask me to." All of the MB concepts run through my head. Then I woke up. I felt at PEACE.
Getting better again. Moving forward. Not stuck.
Who says you have to be quiet on here when in Plan B? HEHEHEHE
Great suggestion Reading! I remember feeling NAKED without mine. It was really hard when people who didn't know me asked me if I was divorced. I would be like, no not divorced, just separated, but how can you tell??? The 25-year indentation and the tan line was a dead giveaway. Reading's suggestion is excellent, I wish I had thought of it back then.
Funny thing is, I HAD thought about that and a friend of mine even suggested it to me today. I think I will tell her I decided to take her up on it. I can call it my SCOTTY recovery ring. Hmmmm, it will definitely HAVE to be blue, since that is my birth stone AND fave colour(YES YES I KNOW I Spell "colour" with a U :P )
I will get working on finding that ring. It has to be perfect.
Today, I went to work and I bought a ring. It is just something temporary until I find one I LOVE.
It feels better already. "Scotty Power Ring." It is all sparkley. LOVE THAT.
I "feel" the difference in me already and others have commented about how strong I have been through all of this. I have THIS site and all of YOU to thank for that. You guys are AWESOME.
There is something else that has "hit" me. I read new posters' posts and I see come vets or others suggest people read my thread. I mean THIS thread. Not just the newly betrayed thread I started(which BTW, I NEED to bump more often to alleviate poor Mark's STRESS, HAHAHAHAHA). It seems weird for ME to be an example. I feel like it was all of YOU that got me there. I hope I can make you all PROUD.
Gonna go build a 500 piece puzzle with the kiddos as soon as Simpsons is over. WOOOHOOO.
It's always true that you find something when you aren't looking for it. I FOUND THE PART ABOUT AFFAIRS ENDING WITHIN 6 MONTHS.
Quote
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage
We are only about a third of the way there. It is LOADS of fun and I get to show off my MADD SKILLZ HAHAHAHAHAHA.(Wait OLD people do puzzles too).
Taking the kiddos to the Mandarin for dinner now. Lots of Plan A goodness. It is movie night too. How many more days until they go back to school? HEHEHEHEHE
You have to sort them all out first. It makes it easier.............OH GOOD GOD. Am I actually giving out puzzle lessons on my thread? What has happened to me? Okay, newbies, I am sorry. If you have made it this far, continue reading. I am sure there will some more interesting things to come. HAHAHAHAHA
So, I was thinking. I have sent a message through IMs that I need a signed ownership for the old car in the driveway so I can get rid of it. I sent the message last month. I am going to send one more message and if there is NO RESPONSE then I am going to get one of my tow truck friends to drive it to WF's house and drop it off in her driveway. Whatcha think?
So, I was thinking. I have sent a message through IMs that I need a signed ownership for the old car in the driveway so I can get rid of it. I sent the message last month. I am going to send one more message and if there is NO RESPONSE then I am going to get one of my tow truck friends to drive it to WF's house and drop it off in her driveway. Whatcha think?
Great idea! Except in your next message, give him a time deadline and state the consequences for not following through--- car dumped in her driveway.
I would look at the laws in your state regarding "abandoned vehicles". Then, send him a message that aligns with the law:
"I asked you back on -date- regarding moving the 19XX Ford XXXX in the driveway. This is a formal request to move the vehicle by -date-, because otherwise I will need to consider it abandoned as it has been left unattended on my property since approximately -date-. Our state laws do allow me to have it towed away, and I would hate for you to have to pay impound charges on it, but really I have no other choice if it isn't gone by -date-. Let me know when you will have it gone. thanks."
That way, he knows you have already looked up the rules on towing it, and he knows you are serious. Don't dump it on them, just let the tow truck driver impound it. Make them PAY for it. Cause trouble in affairland. Rock the boat, girl.
Just got home from the Mandarin and the mall. Kiddos had a BLAST. My fortune cookie said, "Happiness lies ahead." Yep, it sure does. That IS a fortune I BELIEVE.
I don't know how old the car is, and what its value is, but I have donated cars to charities in the past. They come and pick up the car, they take care of the paperwork, and I get the tax deduction.
I know there's some fun to be had by dumping it on WH, but just thought I'd throw it out there as another potential option...
WH is a tow truck driver. You can call a tow company, have them impound it and the WH will have to pay to get it back and produce proper ownership papers for it as well. It is a real pain in the rear and would serve WH right. Plus cost him money.
The other thing you can do, my son just got rid of a car that did not run. It had all the parts though so he called UPull It. It's a junkyard near here. They paid him for the car and came and got it too. You have to provide them with a title signed in order to do this, but nice way to make some extra cash and a title only takes one signature even if there are two owners.
To junk a car or donate it, you need a signed ownership. There isn't an ownership in the car so either Bampot took it with him at some point or he lost it. I can't get an ownership for the car to get rid of it and frankly, it is in my way. It is a '94 and it doesn't run. Bampot LOVED that car when we bought it. To me, it is just a PITA.
I am going to call the police station this week and ask what I can do. I doubt that Bampot would even care that it got impounded because he wouldn't want it anymore, so he wouldn't go through any trouble getting it back. THAT was the reason I thought about dropping it off in the driveway.
I think you should give Bampot notice to move the car. Let him deal with the details. Maybe send him a text "need to move car by 7/17."
Will he wonder why Scotty is suddently cleaning house? Maybe she's throwing a big party and wants the eye sore gone. And will OW be so kind as to let him keep the car at her house? Probably not.
But if you deliver it to her house -- although they both deserve the big pile of s*%t -- YOU have given them more ammo to fuel their war against YOU.
Act like it's no big deal. Just state that the car needs to be moved. You have better things to do -- like start a new puzzle.
HH that is why I asked. That was what I was thinking about. You see, Plan A and Plan B things are still a learning process for me. If I were in a Plan F/U, I would KNOW what to do.
Bampot and Wf were a little early dropping the kiddos off. Where was I? Just got home from work and was taking the stuff out of the car. Yep. I gotta be more careful. Next time it is even close, I leave the groceries out there. I was kept a little later at work. I was taking the kiddos to a party at a friend's house anyways so I just said, "Hi boys, you ready to go to the party?" Bampot looked at me a couple of times and I will say that I was SMOKING. I got 4 compliments today at work alone and I KNOW it is the best I have looked in YEARS. WF never looked over at me. I looked in her direction a couple of times to check and there she was looking at the driver's side of the car. WHO CARES? Not, Mrs. Scotty.
I figured out what ring I am going to get for my ring finger. I am going to get a "family" ring that has just DSx2 stones in them with their names. I think that would be a PERFECT replacement for my wedding band.
At the party tonight, we played Rock Band. More Plan A moments for sure with the boys. Puzzles, Rock Band Beatles, Dinner at the Mandarin, and a movie on Tuesday. WOW. Plan Aing the boys is taxing. Can't wait until Thursday when I don't have to go anywhere, except the track to walk.
HH that is why I asked. That was what I was thinking about. You see, Plan A and Plan B things are still a learning process for me. If I were in a Plan F/U, I would KNOW what to do.
Bampot and Wf were a little early dropping the kiddos off. Where was I? Just got home from work and was taking the stuff out of the car. Yep. I gotta be more careful. Next time it is even close, I leave the groceries out there. I was kept a little later at work. I was taking the kiddos to a party at a friend's house anyways so I just said, "Hi boys, you ready to go to the party?" Bampot looked at me a couple of times and I will say that I was SMOKING. I got 4 compliments today at work alone and I KNOW it is the best I have looked in YEARS. WF never looked over at me. I looked in her direction a couple of times to check and there she was looking at the driver's side of the car. WHO CARES? Not, Mrs. Scotty.
I figured out what ring I am going to get for my ring finger. I am going to get a "family" ring that has just DSx2 stones in them with their names. I think that would be a PERFECT replacement for my wedding band.
At the party tonight, we played Rock Band. More Plan A moments for sure with the boys. Puzzles, Rock Band Beatles, Dinner at the Mandarin, and a movie on Tuesday. WOW. Plan Aing the boys is taxing. Can't wait until Thursday when I don't have to go anywhere, except the track to walk.
I know they are pricey, @$100, but those walking "shaper" shoes from Reboc ,sp? are mah ve lous!
Remember the red rubber balls you used in gym in elementary school? Well, it feels like there are 2 flattened ones in each shoe, one under heel, one under toe area.
When you walk, you sink into the heel ball and have to push down on the front of your foot to roll your foot onto your toes. Causes an extra flex in the leg muscels - When I first wore them, my legs were sore the first few days. - (but in a good way) If you are going to walk- I think this is an extra bonus without the gym!
Scotty, It sounds like you are doing well; how is the personal trainer working out. I hope that you are achieving all your goals. Keep up the excellent work.
The personal trainer is working out well, he is killing me, just like I pay for him to do.
I ordered the new "Scotty Power Ring" today. It should arrive in 4-6 weeks. It is a family ring(well only the kiddos) with their birthstones and names. It is cute and I am happy about it. I will be even happier when I get it.
Hmmmmm, what to do next? Still looking for a new job. Anyone got one they don't want anymore? Teeeheehehehehe.
That is great Scotty, I am so glad you are getting stronger and stronger every day. Your personal recovery has been an inspiration to so many here. Enjoy that fabulous new ring and just keep visualizing the perfect job/career, then allow it to happen.
Well, it has been a few days since I posted on my own thread. Nothing exciting going on, just as it should be. DSx2 and I are almost done our puzzle. I'd say it's 2/3 of the way done. We take time out to do other things too.
I called the police dept on Tuesday, and they told me I can't do anything legally. As long as Bampot's name is on the house, he has equal rights to it. He could even move in WITH OW and I couldn't do anything about it I still sent another message through IMs that I needed a signed ownership OR removal paid for by Bampot by August 1st. THAT got a response within 2 hours. He said the ownership is in the car. It is not. I sent a message back saying that the ownership is not there so he will have to get a replacement. We'll see where it goes from here.
I am not looking into this at all, I am just throwing it out there so lurkers may read something they are experiencing as well. Bampot continues to receive mail here. ALL of his mail. Bank stuff, insurance stuff, credit card stuff(he has paperless billing so I don't get those)and government stuff. I pretty much just throw it away. Except the insurance papers, I forwarded them to the IMs. That happens to them after that is up to them.
DS7 said something funny on our walk this evening. He said, "Mommy, I think Daddy misses our house." I said, "Oh really?" He said, "Yea, you know how we have one thing to turn on the water in the kitchen? Well, Daddy tried to turn the water on like that at OW's house. Isn't that funny?" I said, "Yep." When he talked to Bampot, he also said, "Daddy, do you remember when you used to sneeze or fart and blame me and brother(he really calls DS10 "brother")? Wasn't that funny? You should be home again." I didn't even prompt him or anything. He barely ever talks to Bampot on the phone. He keeps saying that he will tlak to Bampot on the phone when he comes home to live.
I guess I had more to say than I thought. No surprise to my IRL friends. HEHEHEHE
I am still slowly going through Queenie's thread(in my down moments ).
Here is a quote from Jamesus that I would like to post here.
Quote
I BELIEVE God is working on the other side of the mountain.
I BELIEVE that God, like the good shepherd He is, is seeking His lost sheep.
I BELIEVE that God has a plan, and there is a REASON we have been called by HIM to stand for OUR marriages.
I BELIEVE that God is perfecting us, and our spouses over time to be what we need to be for EACHOTHER. Our waywards are not home yet because God is not FINISHED working on them.. and us.
I BELIEVE that if it is not God's WILL for my marriage to survive, that He will show me the BETTER way that He has planned for me.
I BELIEVE that part of -my- lesson is to show His love to others, and learn forgiveness for those that have wronged me.
I BELIEVE God is telling me to WAIT, and TRUST in HIM.. and He is consistent with HIS message to me.. I should BELIEVE, and cast off doubt and hopelessness... and TRUST in HIM.
So.. I shall.. and as I believe, so it shall be done through Him who answers all prayer... in His timing.
ETA: I used to say that I wish I would have found this place sooner. I am now GRATEFUL that I found it when I did. I am imagining what my life would have looked like without you guys. WOW. I would most likely be going crazy. Thank GOD I found this place in time.
You would most likely have completely bought (against your gut instincts) WH's story about renting a room from OW. You most likely would have "made nice" with WH about a separation and possibly D and would likely have agreed to nicely "co-parent" with the man who was destroying your marriage and his cohort, the OW.
It could have been even WORSE FF. I could have been a "friends with benefits" while my WH was "cheating" on OW. OW could come to Bday parties for my children. We would have the craziest "relationship" until I finally had enough. Who knows when that would have been. I am so thankful for all of you and for this time to improve myself. I realized the other day, while I was posting to someone else, that this is starting to BE ME. I am changing. And I LIKE who I am becoming.
It could have been even WORSE FF. I could have been a "friends with benefits" while my WH was "cheating" on OW. OW could come to Bday parties for my children. We would have the craziest "relationship" until I finally had enough. Who knows when that would have been. I am so thankful for all of you and for this time to improve myself. I realized the other day, while I was posting to someone else, that this is starting to BE ME. I am changing. And I LIKE who I am becoming.
Well, I know that this isn't about my story but since I use this as a sort of journal type thing, I lay it all out there.
Last night, around 630pm, my Mom called me.
I said, "Hello." There was a bit of silence and then she said, "Scotty, I need to talk to someone." Me: "Okay."
Mom: You go your internet and ask them a question.
Me: Mom, you go on yourself, I can't do this for you.
Mom: You ask all of those people who recovered if their husband says that he is still separated?
Me: Mom, I can't help you. I can't listen to you right now.
Mom: Oh you're GOING to listen.
Me: No I am not. Bye. CLICK
Today, she calls me at 1230pm. I brace for it. I say, "Hello." She asks if it would be okay if I watch my nieces so she can keep shopping. She is buying me a couch(she got 2 for me). Anyways, she says thanx when I say okay. She comes by to pick up my nieces. I am outside reading. She sits down beside me and we start to talk. She tells me that she talked to my Dad last night and it is much better. I tell her that I am sorry but I can't help her. Then I ask, "So, when was the last time you spoke to OM?" She says, "I can't remember." I say, "Last night? Thursday? Four days ago? You know." She finally says, "I had to call him about my insurance. I think it was on Monday." I say, "Did you tell Dad?" She answers, "No. He would be mad." I said, "Yes he would and he should be. You KNOW you shouldn't still be calling him." She says, "Your Dad would have said that I could have taken care of the insurance by myself." I say, "He would have been right." I then explain how every contact sends her back to day one of her recovery. She says, "I already told you I don't have feelings for OM anymore."
I talked to her a bit more and told her about how I feel and what I believe and what Bampot would have to do if he came home. She then said, "I wish I could talk to Bampot." I offered up his phone number and email address. I told her to call away. HAHAHAHA
Funny thing happened while I was typing this out. My FIL called me. I haven't talked to him in years. I called his house when I was exposing, but talked to his wife instead. I saw the number and I thought about not answering for a minute. I did though. He hadn't known that Bampot moved out. I couldn't believe that I talked to him for almost half an hour and I didn't cry. I came close a couple of times. He apologized for not doing anything. I told him that all I was asking for was some support to tell Bampot that what he was doing was wrong and that he should come back to his family. I told him that I was advised to reach out to influential people in Bampot's life and ask them to help. I told him that I know that Bampot might have ignored his call or delete his email, but that was all I was asking of people to do.
Bampot shut everyone else out of his life except WF and a few "friends" from work. Bampot is very much a stick your head in the sand kind of guy. It's gonna take a lot for his head to get unburied. Anyone got an extra shovel? WHO CARES? HAHAHAHA
Okay, I tried to be funny, but since I am Canadian, you probably didn't get it. My friends think I am HILARIOUS, or so I keep telling myself when they laugh with me(or at me?).
I really am fine. Getting better everyday. Really starting to believe it too.
Wow. Weird how that happens. You give it up to God and WHAM-- a door opens. FILs call was such a gift in that he heard you and what you said was RIGHT ON. Factual. Non emotional. No badmouthing of Bampot.
See what happens when we sit back and observe instead of manipulating the circumstances? Yes, easier said than done.
You did good, Scotty, conversing with BOTH FIL and your Mom.
..Mom: You go your internet and ask them a question. ..
Mom: You ask all of those people who recovered if their husband says that he is still separated?
This is such an impossible question for you to answer for anybody. She really threw you a curveball there Scotty. You did the right thing and responded exactly like she needed you to. Those personal issues revovling around how your Dad and Mom feel about each other are so much thier issues they have to work out between each other.
The last thing you need is to be the justifing factor and have your convictions challenged by yet another close family member you love. By refusing to discuss it you put the ball squarly in her court, its up to her to pick it up. Bravo Scotty.
Its very revealing that Bampot has stopped associating with his close circle of freinds and family. It to me is part of the chemical drug brain fogginess that they experiance. Like this if I may.
At first they think that what they are doing is right because they feel good doing it,(for whatever reason) and they figure that they will show everyone else later when the initial storm calms down from whatever exposure that happens that it "Was all for the best".
(Thats why full and complete exposure is so important because new story spins cannot breed in the gap of other relationships not knowing the truth)
Then as the single minded selfishness and tunnelvision of the drug induced justification of "Why doesn't everybody get behind me, don't they want me to be happy?, loses its validity within and starts to be seen as it is, selfish thinking and justification, they hunker down, not willing to admit thier mistake because of shame and/or pride and confusion of how they got to that place.
Im not saying that because I feel sorry for them, Its just part of thier delusion, along with the idea that everything that they feel is right and justified, which everyone outside ussually can see is bull. But they still haven't thought about the truth enough or had to deal with it objectivly to be fair. The influences of friends and family have a lot to do with how they will have to be snapped back into reality, so they hide from them.
When they finnally,(we hope), start to reintegrate into the relationships that they had allways wanted to re-connect with, and hoping that those relationships are real humble people and a friend to them, they find that they are challanged with the truth that they.
1) Were selfish 2) Didn't know what they were really doing to thier spouse or loved ones. 3) Acted without character that they professed to have, or aspired to emulate or acquire in thier life. 4) Were afraid to admit they needed help. (Or to proud to, same thing IMO) 5) Acted in a cruel and selfish way while lieing and sneaking around to satisfy an egotisical fantasy that they felt they had the right to experience.
It is very important that the friends and relatives are people who will put them on the ropes when it comes to thier leaving. Its obvious to everybody that an affiar was not the answer. Even those who did the same thing and are now remarried to an affair partner can if thier honest, admit it wasn't the way to deal with thier problems, and it wasn't fair or healthy for them then and has consequences they are still dealing with.
It will take Bampots conscience time to work on him if he allows it, and as I know allready from you Scotty you will expect him to be fully honest and complient to what it will take to recover. This is what is healthy and right for you. Why we admire your strength.
I don't know if he will ever get it together but I know you will get stronger as time wears on. It takes some time for all of what he has done to set in as his fault and that as a Man how he should go about repairing the damage he has done. He can't be to much of a Dummy to have picked you as his wife or for you to love him like you do. That gives me hope for your future.
I Also can't believe he is happier now. I think he is probably miserable and doesn't recognize it yet, or allowing himself to see it.
Sorry if this is long winded like many of my posts and hope this helps you in some way scotty. I know you post on weekends so i thought I would say something.
When I read Not's post, i said, "NO." Then I read your response SW and I said, "DUH." Of course that's what I have to do. I WILL, Tomorrow. See, I am a coward sometimes. ARGH ARGH ARGH.
BTW, thanx for pointing out the obvious SW. Sometimes I just don't get it.
SSO(CP)- well, you have said a whole mouthful. Are you trying to get your WPP(words per post) stat up or something? HEHEHEHE
Honestly, I know that you are helping me and I enjoy reading your posts. There is just one thing I want to correct. I don't really think about if Bampot is happy right now or not. I don't CARE. The only thing that matters to me about Bampot is, he's not home. Until he wants to work on our marriage, I don't care what he does and feel. Except where it has to deal with my kiddos.
If we are going to talk about typing, I don't actually know HOW to "type." I am a hunt and peck typer.
Well, the "Scotty ring of POWER" is HERE. I was so surprised when they called me on Friday and told me it was ready. I picked it up today when I went to work. I LOVE IT. I am so hapy I decided on it. As soon as I get my SD card back from my sister, I will take a pic and post it. I haven't talked to my Dad yet. When I called, I Mom answered. I asked if he was home and he is at work. I asked her to get him to call me. I didn't want to tell her what I wanted because I didn't want her to try to talk me out of it. She'll probably just stop telling me the truth when I ask her. Oh well, I don't lie to my Dad. That's on her.
I keep telling her that. I think she's scairt. It's okay. I decided to try a different approach where I am telling her about what Bampot would have to do and what I would implement. Knowledge by osmosis is what I am going for. She still knows that this site exists and she knows I have the books. It is up to her to make the leap and DO something.
Yep, TOTAL ANONYMITY. NO ONE would know who she was with THAT name. HAHAHAHAHA I asked her to at least tell me what her username was so I would stay off of her thread. I don't want to read about their "relationship", KWIM?
When you tell your dad, be prepared to face the wrath of mom. Don't avoid her, just stand tall and proud and let her know that you will not be an accessory to her crimes. That it was not the TELLING of the contact that hurt your dad (and you.... ) but the CONTACT that hurt....
Don't engage in an argument....Stand firm.....
I'm proud of YOU.....
{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}
Not
ps.....NOBODY says more than Mark....Sorry SSO, but you have a LONGGGGGGG way to go yet.... .....in fact, looking at Marks post total is a bit deceiving. He really has triple that amount......
pss....t/j...Thank you for the compliment on the siggy line....
Yeah I'm not in any competition anyways, and Mark's posts are in a league of thier own anyways, as all of the people here are.
yeah Scotty, if your Mom stops telling you about the affair stuff and you can stop being her confessor, then maybe she will turn to the boards to get her questions answered.
Its not like you are rejecting her, you will be rejecting the justifications and allowing her to see you not only expect more from her, but that there is a way back.
Its so hard to teach your parents anything, they really need an open mind, I remember the pain from my parents divorce and thier disfuctionalism in the marriage. Both my Sister and I suffered in ways that we did not even see till we were older. I tried to be the healer as a small child, and my sister has yet to forgive my Dad. I became a fixer in all my relationships and felt it was all my resposibility ever since, and my Sister has excepted much less from life than she had to.
Again I am not telling you anything you don't know, just sharing. You are a light of hope and a super daughter to your Parents. Now that you are a grown up I hope they can benifet from the knowledge you have aquired and are sharing with them. We never stop learning, and it the mark of emotional and mental health.
The truth seems to be so scary when we have to admit we are weak and make mistakes. Its to bad that we tend to hide from it when it is the only way to be truly free. Many times we hide to avoid the pain we imagine will befall us when those towers we built to protect us are torn down.
I take solice in the phrase,(referened from scripture but I don't know where) "God will shake what will be shaken and what remains will be of God"
That and that He will show me clearly the way and that He loves me the best is my only source of courage really. To some I have looked foolish and taken on more than I should have but "No Guts, No Glory" when you apply it to honoring God, has allways paid off in my experiance.
So, today I had my workout and then I went back to my friend's house for lunch. Around 230pm, we get home, DS10 goes in and then comes back out and says, "Mommy, the toilet's broken." I went to look. The hose from the floor to the tank was spewing out water all over the bathroom floor. I tried to turn the valve. Wouldn't you know, it doesn't work. I go to the basement but I don't know where the main shut off is. Call my Dad. He comes over. Apparently, my lovely puppy decided she would EAT through the hose. Dad fixes it. As he is leaving, I tell him about my Mom's contact last Monday. He said he didn't care. I told him that I just had to tell him because it was the right thing to do and that he could do with it what he chose. That's done.
I was thinking a bit about what FIL told me too. I always knew that Bampot said his parents BOTH had affairs. He used to say that he was angry at them for it and he would never put his kids through that. Well, FIL didn't know that I knew. He started off my saying, "I wish Bampot would remember what his mother did to him growing up. She had 10 affairs, that I KNOW of." I said, "Yes, but I was told you had affairs too." He said, "Yes, I had one. I stayed together for the kids though. I always did the best for the kids." Then he said, "She used to take the kids with her to their houses and when she would go see them. She thought I wouldn't be suspicious if she had the kids with her. It was cruel." I knew that Bampot had met some of her mother's OM, I just didn't know this little tidbit. I now see how he is repeating this by taking our sons around his OW.
I broke the cycle of physical abuse towards my children. My WH broke the cycle of alcoholism in his family. I can only PRAY that I am teaching my children how to break the cycle of adultery. There is a lot resting on their shoulders. I hope they are up for it.
I don't know what your workouts look like dear. We started punching the bag last week and now my back and shoulders hurt. That is on top of my abs and legs. Today, we did pretty much the whole hour with very little rest. We focused on legs and arms. He "warned" us that ABS are on Wednesday. I don't like the sound of that, but I am still gonna go.
...I broke the cycle of physical abuse towards my children. My WH broke the cycle of alcoholism in his family. I can only PRAY that I am teaching my children how to break the cycle of adultery. There is a lot resting on their shoulders. I hope they are up for it.
My wife and I in better days talked a lot about breaking generational curses that were in our families. The only way we could do it is separation from them in how we lived. I totally get this Scotty, and am glad to say that we succeeded in separating them from the backwards mindsets that we both had suffered through.
Truth is, our children don't understand what we went through and can't appreciate the differance. Of course, that is the victory, they are better off not knowing and being better adjusted. But the good thing is they do understand and have compassion for people who are damaged, but not for what damages them. IYKWIM.
I am sure you will have victory in your efforts to break the affairage cycle. All you have to do is be you and love them and they will see the strength you are even if Bampot has fallen. They allready know the truth, and they are stand-up guys. Just like thier Mom.
Scotty checking in(don't want any wild parties, lead by Mark over here, hehehehehe).
A couple of nights ago, I was lying in bed and I was MAD. I had a lot of things I felt were left unsaid to OW. I know that it is not HER fault. I know that Bampot had the responsibility to keep his vows. There is ALSO some fault that lies with WF.
I decided I would write her a letter(which I will NEVER send BTW).
This is what the letter looked like
Originally Posted by Scotty to WF
WF, I am angry with you. There are some many words that I would love to b able to say to you. When I see you or think about you, it brings out the worst in me. It makes me feel things I don't like and I need to get rid of it. I need to get rid of YOU(in my head).
You may feel like you have "won" some contest with me. That Bampot is a great prize. I want you to know that there was NEVER a competition. And that Bampot is NO PRIZE. The man I married and love does not exist and that is partly because of you. We had a decent marriage(some may even call it GOOD). Many who truly knew us felt like we were each others Ying and yang. We completed each other. We truly loved each other.
I am a MUCH better woman than YOU. I am not normally a judgmental person but for you I have reserved myself this endulgence. I am a loyal, trusting, honest, loving, caring, friendly, compassionate, beautiful, possessor of high morals and values which I do not waiver on whims, GREAT mother and wife. I continue to be this person to this day. I will NOT allow YOU or Bampot to change me.
Life consumed us and raising our children and living the "responsible life" led us down a path where we lost each other. We became two people sharing the same house. We still shared SOME of the married life, but not enough. We became unhappy. I chose to throw myself into raising the kids, a noble "sacrifice", I believed, and Bampot threw himself into work to provide for his family. We thought we were doing the "right" thing. We only were, half way.
Some time in 2008 my Dear Husband disappeared and he had been replaced with YOUR BOYFRIEND. He was a man I did not recognize. A man who was once loyal, loving, caring, compassionate, of a high moral cloth, family oriented and a truly good man turned into someone who no longer possessed any of those traits with any merit. He became angry, withdrawn, unhappy and truly someone that I would look at while he slept and thought, "Why do I love this man?" The answer was clear. I didn't love THAT man. That's because he was NOT the man I married.
I believe that in a truly GREAT marriage, the two partners bring out the BEST in each other. I always encouraged Bampot to be the best man he could and I would ALWAYS support him in his endeavors to become a better more fulfilled man. I accepted him for who he was and didn't try to change him. He could dress how he wished and could say what he felt. He WAS a person who had a lot to offer. I HOPE a little of that man still lies beneath the man who came when he decided to enter into his affair with you.
I do not know who you truly were before you started this affair with a married man, my husband. I do know who you are today and I can truly say, that you could NEVER hold a candle for me. The only thing I can do is pray that there was something good in you too, before your affair with my husband began and you may tap into that again and realize that you are making a HUGE mistake. Find that person again, if she ever existed, and let her remind you who you truly are. I wish you no ill-will. All I wish is that you realize you mistakes and correct them.
Scotty
This is very liberating for me and it was something I felt I needed to do. I was completely honest with it because I knew it would never be sent.
Now, on a "Day in the life of Scotty" update. I got my new couch yesterday. I had a 30 year old sectional sofa bed before. We purchased it from our IMs about 7 years ago. Springs were broken and it had seen better days. My Mom decided to buy me 2 new couches(the other one comes at a later date). So I get my BIL GF to drive the truck to the Brick. We get the couch. We come back to my house, take one part of the old couch out. My Dad decides he will start to bring the new one in. Only one problem The couch is 32 inches wide and my doorway is 28.5 inches. So needless to say, it didn't fit. My dad gets angry and starts going off. I say, "Dad, getting mad is not going to solve the fact that my door is too small. You can leave if you are going to continue." I go back inside and I walk out to hear him complaining about me to BIL GF. I say. "What are you saying? I would like to be able to defend myself." He just looks at me. I don't know if any of you realize how HUGE this is. My father beat me as a child and the last time he hit me was when I was 16. I moved out at 19 after years of emotional and verbal abuse. I have worked through it but one thing always happened to me when he would get mad. I would get scared. Not anymore. I think it amazes him that I stand up to him. It doesn't amaze me though.
So, to get the couch in the house, I had to take out a window. Just picture it, 5 people pushing a couch through a window. Now if that doesn't give you a laugh, I don't know what will. The couch is comfy BTW.
Scotty, you're so strong. I sent my email to the WF in my life. And...it didn't even make me feel better, just made me want to hunt her down and make her hurt. So it's probably good you're not sending that. You sound like you're doing fantastic!!
Really though, I just had to log in to say the letter is spot on how I feel. You wrote a beautifully descriptive letter (never to be sent) which describes the emotions of us betrayed ones.
Thank you for putting it in words and sharing it with us so we can feeeeeeeeel we are not alone.
Hello Scotty, I just read your email to OW. It does help to write things down and get it out of your system. I sent a similar email to OW over a year ago when I was still fighting for my marriage... And put 28 of her colleagues in copy. Ooooh, it felt good. I heard last week that she is still having problems digesting it. For several reasons I am very glad I sent that email when I did. Now the email I'd send is:
Quote
Dear OW, WH has become a liar, a man with no integrity, honour or courage. Thank you for taking him off my hands. Keep him.
Scotty whats really great is you don't feel sorry for yourself, in other words allow the abuse to take residence in its core form in you, selfishness.
I think sometimes it would make me feel better if I went over to the POSOMs house some day or to one of the Bars he frequented and called him out, embarrassed him publically and goaded him into a fight where I could hurt him permenantly.
But then I realize he was just a fool who bought my sick wifes line of crap, how much she suffered at the hands of the world and how it entitled her to get her share of drugs and riotius living.
All I would be doing is making myself feel better for shooting a stray dog who mated with a wild one who got out of the pen. In the end I would be giving in to my feelings. Sure it would feel good at the moment, but they would have taken away something from me that is more important.
I have never bought the premise that Guys are supposed to chase off every other guy whom his girlfriend/wife happens to attract to them when the female puts it out there. Sure be a presence when boneheads approach them and make yourself known, but there is a line when they are looking for attention from men. I won't play that game, its for children, and I don't have time for it.
The other part, the part about how men appear to the OW as such great guys because of thier history and what they have been thru, boo-frickin-hoo. They lost the credit for it when they looked for special attention for doing what they should be doing in the first place. These "I was agreat Dad" people many times have there BW to thank for much of that but they sell the idea that they did it all alone.
The OW buys it, for whatever reason, then the fantasy grows.
It can be said about anything in life really, nobody does anything all by themselves. Its those who are willing to give credit where it due and don't try to cash in on everything they give that are the most balanced.
So the selfish make themself sick and the Affair partners get a person who wants THEM to make up for all thier sacrifices. Its so twisted isn't it? Then the Waywards don't even see that either, and don't recognize you are pointing the way back from that.
People who do affairs truly are lost, I don't think we could think up a punishment more cruel than the one they place upon themselves, or a world more full of crap.
Oh yeah Great Couch story. Almost beats the sawing the box spring in half story my daughter created, or the many time we've had to take furniture apart that wasn't meant to be. Moving was fun!,(JK)
awesome letter. When i read this i had tears in my eyes. There were some many things in that letter that i could relate to in some many different ways. It can be worded just a little differently and could apply to my XH at this point as well. You are awesome and i know you don't know me but know that you definately have one person that looks up to you and admires how well you conduct yourself!
Great to see you, too! Scotty doesn't mind - ever since she went to Plan B her thread has become one big TJ.
With a LITTLE of other stuff rolled in. I guess it's because I am Awesome at Plan B WOW, I can't even type that with a straight face hehehehehe.
I really don't mind of course.
Thanx everyone. I did it purely for ME. When I say that I was able to be completely honest with it, what I meant was that I didn't feel the need to attack WF or Bampot while writing it.
Thanx FF. Got a new netbook today. Boy i am clueless on how to do this stuff. Got the wireless hooked up WITHOUT use of the CD it comes with since my DVD burner is no longer able to be found on my computer. Now, I cant seem to get my computer to turn on. The netbook has its keyboard set to French so I cant seem to use an apostrophe. Argh. I will get it figured out though. I have the power of Google on my side. I even made the mousepad not click when you tap it now. Well, you would think I never touched a computer before HAHAHHAHAHAHA.
Scotty power WILL get me through. Gotta get all of my bookmarks back on here too. Oh and guess what(no question marks either)it is PINK. I dont care for pink but that is okay. Gotta figure this out. Off to the world of Google.
BTW FF, thanx for bumping my thread, I was looking for it.
I don't know what your workouts look like dear. We started punching the bag last week and now my back and shoulders hurt. That is on top of my abs and legs. Today, we did pretty much the whole hour with very little rest. We focused on legs and arms. He "warned" us that ABS are on Wednesday. I don't like the sound of that, but I am still gonna go.
Awesome! I just love working out. I got into the habit when my last H left me and it has stayed with me all this time.
Thanks for your kind words on the other thread, Scotland. I sure do appreciate all the hard work you do on this forum.
Thanx Mel(you don't know how AWESOME I feel being able to write "Mel" as it is also the short form for WF's name). I really do feel like that about you. I am trying to learn all I can and I understand why you vets help out so many. It isn't easy to read when someone won't take advice. I am just trying to help wherever and whenever I can.
I already got the keyboard and mousepad worked out, talked to my mom and sister and I am coming down with a cold. Ain't LIFE grand? I realized today that is has been more than 7 months since I entered into Plan B. WOW. Time just keeps on moving forward.
I don't know if I have posted this on my thread before, but I would like to today. Every morning and every night I pray. I never really used to. My morning prayer is for the strength to get through the day without contacting Bampot. To have a soldier in the war against the affair step in Bampot and WF's path. That Bampot and WF suffer the consequences of the actions they have taken. At night, I give thanks for the strength I showed that day. Pray for my family to be safe. Also, for an angel to come to Bampot or WF and let them hear the words. Throughout this process, I have discovered my faith. I have always thought of myself as a spiritual person but I am not very religious(just because I haven't found a religion I totally believe in yet, bit and pieces yes).
Been DAYS since I posted on THIS thread. That's because there really is nothing going on. I am chugging along.
I have had a few slips of thoughts going towards Bampot and WF. I feel horrible for a while and then I get mad. I always find that after I am mad, I heal a bit. Cried a few times.
Today is my Dad's Bday. Went to my sister's for lunch. Got into a blow out with my brother and then my Mom stepped in to defend my brother. It was quite a blow up over the fact that he brought up Bampot and XBIL. I told him that he needed to grow up and gain some experiences of his own before he could lecture me on my life. This brought out the animal in my brother. He told me I never let things drop, and then he called me a Fing C, a FAT loser, as well as MANY more things. All the while, my children and nieces were listening. My Mom stepped in to defend my brother and even sunk to the, "This is why Bampot left you. You deserve what he did to you." After my brother left, my dad told my Mom she should hug me. I didn't accept the hug. She said, "I really do love you." I said, "I don't believe you." She then spent a few minutes saying, "I do. It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, it's in my heart." I responded with, "It's not enough." She even said that she HAD to defend my brother because HE needs her. I even made sure that I told my Mom that I would not be bullied and disrespected. Stinking people.
I have had moments of stinking thinking and I am trying to stop that. Again, I think that I didn't do ENOUGH in Plan A. I feel like I COULD have done a better job. I know that is because I am looking at this from the safety of my Plan B and not from when I was in Plan A. I was almost ready to be committed during that time. I did the BEST I could. I am trying the best I can in Plan B. I hold myself to a HIGH standard. Higher than I would anyone else.
I have also made some posts that were taken in the wrong light and I felt BADLY about that. Still have a lot to learn. Reading and posting when I can help without harming.
On a higher note, we have been punching the bag in our personal training(he is a boxing coach, primarily). It is a lot of fun. Even found that I am good at punching. I am a NATURAL. HAHAHAHA I even spent a few hours this evening making a web site for the gym. Lots of FUN. Plowing forward. Keeping sadness at bay, unless I need to feel it, but only for a short time. Gotta stay focused on making this life GREAT.
How horrible the attack from your brother. GRRRRR. At your Dads B-day too. My sympathys.
I was here when you did your Plan A. You did awesome, don't second guess yourself. If MY opinion matters, then please trust me. You did everything mel suggested and neak and the other vets who contributed. You asked questions and even creatively came up with your own ideas. Yes you might have been ready to be institutionalized, but that was real emotion, not the contrived kind aliens have.
You were real scotty. I remember giving my wifes 9 page eulogy I prepared, I couldn't speak without crying and my voice sounded awful. I felt so bad at my lack of control, it wasn't the triumphant disertation I had wrote and planned to deliver with conviction. It was a broken man struggling to speak, but after I was told how real it was because I was broken, and I forced myself to finish. The emotions that you have are speaking from the heart and truth. Just like the actions you have taken. Thank God for the courage you have shown, and your conviction.
It goes like that, the greiving, you cry over things you think you should be over, then get mad for what dumb things they did, then you find yourself accepting where you are. It takes more time than we realize, and it truly is a new life. Its like the experiance of being born into a new world, and its scary at times.
Hugs to you, don't worry little sister, no improper intentions here. Plus I hear you punch real good
Been DAYS since I posted on THIS thread. That's because there really is nothing going on. I am chugging along.
I have had a few slips of thoughts going towards Bampot and WF. I feel horrible for a while and then I get mad. I always find that after I am mad, I heal a bit. Cried a few times.
Today is my Dad's Bday. Went to my sister's for lunch. Got into a blow out with my brother and then my Mom stepped in to defend my brother. It was quite a blow up over the fact that he brought up Bampot and XBIL. I told him that he needed to grow up and gain some experiences of his own before he could lecture me on my life. This brought out the animal in my brother. He told me I never let things drop, and then he called me a Fing C, a FAT loser, as well as MANY more things. All the while, my children and nieces were listening. My Mom stepped in to defend my brother and even sunk to the, "This is why Bampot left you. You deserve what he did to you." After my brother left, my dad told my Mom she should hug me. I didn't accept the hug. She said, "I really do love you." I said, "I don't believe you." She then spent a few minutes saying, "I do. It doesn't matter if you don't believe me, it's in my heart." I responded with, "It's not enough." She even said that she HAD to defend my brother because HE needs her. I even made sure that I told my Mom that I would not be bullied and disrespected. Stinking people.
I have had moments of stinking thinking and I am trying to stop that. Again, I think that I didn't do ENOUGH in Plan A. I feel like I COULD have done a better job. I know that is because I am looking at this from the safety of my Plan B and not from when I was in Plan A. I was almost ready to be committed during that time. I did the BEST I could. I am trying the best I can in Plan B. I hold myself to a HIGH standard. Higher than I would anyone else.
I have also made some posts that were taken in the wrong light and I felt BADLY about that. Still have a lot to learn. Reading and posting when I can help without harming.
On a higher note, we have been punching the bag in our personal training(he is a boxing coach, primarily). It is a lot of fun. Even found that I am good at punching. I am a NATURAL. HAHAHAHA I even spent a few hours this evening making a web site for the gym. Lots of FUN. Plowing forward. Keeping sadness at bay, unless I need to feel it, but only for a short time. Gotta stay focused on making this life GREAT.
Did I ever tell you that when I think of you I think 'Scottie'? I can't for the life of me call you Scotland in my mind....so if I post to you and address you as Scottie, well, that is why.
I am horrified that a) your brother called you such horrible names b) Your mom took up for him c) Your mom said 'that is why he left you.'
Horrible. Just awful.
You did one of the best Plan A that I've ever seen on here. Don't second guess yourself. He may not be coming home, but it is no fault of yours. You are a great woman, a great mother and a great asset to this board. I wish I could hug you in person!
Thanx you two. Didn't post to get that, just wanted to vent a bit, and tell it like it is. That way, if there is anyone out there who is still lurking, they know that they are not alone.
I don't often think that my Plan A is the reason why Bampot isn't on his way home. I KNOW it is HIS choice and he may never make that choice. Even if he does, I won;t take it lightly. THAT is the BENEFIT of being in Plan B so long. If he had decided to come back sooner, I would have set the bar too low. Now, I KNOW that if/when he decides to make his life better, I won't SETTLE. I am finding my voice and myself again.
When I read other people's threads in Plan A, I think, "I should have done that. I could have said this." THAT is where I am questioning my Plan A. Now, I am determined to help others do a SUPERB Plan A so they can do a GREAT Plan B if necessary.
SW, I think of myself as Scotty too. I am okay with people writing Scottie/Scotty. I just like Scotty better.
LOVED when my mom shoved her finger in my face and said, "You are a real SERB." Funny, because SHE is 1/2 Serb and I am 1/4. I came back with, "I am HALF Scottish." And then I looked at my Dad. He is 100% Scottish. I was NOT disrespectful. Even when my brother was calling me names and such. THAT is an IMPROVEMENT.
Drama in my family. Guess it is just like everyone else's right? HAHAHAHAHA
Thanx you two. Didn't post to get that, just wanted to vent a bit, and tell it like it is. That way, if there is anyone out there who is still lurking, they know that they are not alone.
I don't often think that my Plan A is the reason why Bampot isn't on his way home. I KNOW it is HIS choice and he may never make that choice. Even if he does, I won;t take it lightly. THAT is the BENEFIT of being in Plan B so long. If he had decided to come back sooner, I would have set the bar too low. Now, I KNOW that if/when he decides to make his life better, I won't SETTLE. I am finding my voice and myself again.
When I read other people's threads in Plan A, I think, "I should have done that. I could have said this." THAT is where I am questioning my Plan A. Now, I am determined to help others do a SUPERB Plan A so they can do a GREAT Plan B if necessary.
SW, I think of myself as Scotty too. I am okay with people writing Scottie/Scotty. I just like Scotty better.
LOVED when my mom shoved her finger in my face and said, "You are a real SERB." Funny, because SHE is 1/2 Serb and I am 1/4. I came back with, "I am HALF Scottish." And then I looked at my Dad. He is 100% Scottish. I was NOT disrespectful. Even when my brother was calling me names and such. THAT is an IMPROVEMENT.
Drama in my family. Guess it is just like everyone else's right? HAHAHAHAHA
Yes Scotty....everyone has this junk somewhere in their family.
At least you aren't me.....paranoid schizophrenic my congregation has fixated on me.....I'm totally freaked and have had to discuss it with the elders...He finds a seat very near me and proceeds to have conversations with invisible people all through services....I'm freaked out.
Scotty - that kind of abuse calls for a family Plan B letter - for your brother and for your mother. If it takes three years like it did for me with my mother - of no contact, so be it.
You need to take a stand. Express your love. Express your refusal to be abused privately or publicly again. Express the pathway they would need to take in order to have contact with you. And have them contact your minister with fruits of repentance before you take anything they attempt to convey seriously.
Don't let anyone bully you, reading your thread and all the things you have posted to me - you are an amazing woman. You have strength that I can only dream about.
(I would have sent the letter to POSOW, but that is where you are better at plan b than me)
I think it is absolutely wonderful that YOU have broken many different cycles; and that your darling boys will reap the benefits in the future of such dedicated and beautiful parenting.
I just wanted to jump in and also remind you of how much you inspire others and how amazing you are in the midst of this crazy ride.
Scotty - that kind of abuse calls for a family Plan B letter - for your brother and for your mother. If it takes three years like it did for me with my mother - of no contact, so be it.
You need to take a stand. Express your love. Express your refusal to be abused privately or publicly again. Express the pathway they would need to take in order to have contact with you. And have them contact your minister with fruits of repentance before you take anything they attempt to convey seriously.
This has gone far enough - too far.
This is a good idea Scotty, A letter would spell out where you stand so they had no excuse, and a minister makes a good IM for this sort of thing.
Many of us have had to stop contact with toxic people we love, when we could, as in when we became adults. They are reinforcing each other with the bullch!t, and you are being crucified.
Just to protect yourself Scotty. You have that right to love.
I agree! Plan B for your mom and brother. They things they said are not justifiable. Period. Shame on your mom for saying what she said about your marriage, but as you know well by now, out of the mouth of waywards (and even some new FWS) comes BS!
If anyone, I don't care who, called me a C-word, I would never speak to them or see them again, without a very sincere and humble apology.
If anyone,related by blood or not, permitted such conduct, I would not see them either.
Your children are watching and listening .... protection of yourself is protection of your children.
Block them from seeing your sons.
AMEN to both Pep and KA! Scotty, you do not owe your mom anything. You have bent over backwards to help her and she is still fully in her wayward fog. Your brother calling you the C word? He would never see my face again! You do not have to take your family's abuse toward you.
As for your plan A? You did the best plan A you could do. That is all anyone can ask of themselves. You already had lived with his adultery for a long time by the time you found MB. Please, please stop allowing Satan to whisper in your ear.
I don't have much to add. You already know of my "crazy" family situation and my "Plan-B/Love-must-be-tough" with my mom. I will say, if I haven't already........my life has been SOOOOOO much more peaceful for it. Sometimes I am sad about it and do miss her, but the peace has be exactly what I needed for a long time.........
Not
Ps........I could come up there and put the shake down on the brother though.......I HATE that word more than anything........
I wont even make referance to that word. It boils my blood.
Really, the the worse feeling is being alone, and nobody can do it. Its not possible.
"You can pick your friends but not your family" has been used so many times...
But the word familiarity come from the way we act in our families, the unfair expectations, the desire we have for acceptance even if we do wrong. This assumption that we belong to one another and all things are, or should be, forgivable.
Not all family members qualify as friends. Freinds are held to a higher standard, because they don't owe you or you them like family thinks they do.
1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
But how many still act like children and will not take responsibility for the words or deeds? What there conscience dictates comes from what? What they feel? Sometimes your family can hold you back from real freedom in the guise of love.
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Then we connect with someone who is suppossed to understand this, be one with us, before God and the truth. But those feelings come in or hang around waiting to be fed. We Christians call it "the flesh". When our feelings fall outside of what God has given us to act right and treat each other correctly it comes from us, not Him, because God does not have flesh nor does he promote it, but heck he understands it. He knows that it will destroy us if left unchecked.
Familys can blind us to this when they think put on us that we owe them something. They should be glad they were gifted with a chance to love us, and learn what love is while doing so, but learning is slow and the painful realization that we don't know the future or really love like God does is a humbling road we won't take if our feelings can help it.
I don't know if your strong enough or if would be right for you to disown your family. Its an easy thing to say from this point of view, because they are messed up. I do think you should write them all a letter and stand your ground. This is your life before God and your convictions are right, as long as they live in there justifiactions and emotions they will be blind. They don't have to live that way, but in familys they assume thats the way it is, and sometimes find security in the mess because its familiar, and identity also.
You are breaking the cycle in this, and its hard. Just try and keep moving forward while putting it behind you and don't expect them change or appreciate it. Your boys will, and maybe Bampot if he ever gets it. Jesus couldn't even teach in his hometown because of familiarity, but he still taught those with ears to listen, after he left his home town behind.
Plan B'ing family is almost harder than WH isn't it?
We're here for you. You're in my prayers tonight - that you'll be wrapped in God's love tonight and that He will send you some special message that you're not alone. Watch for it. The message is coming! Be open from whoever/wherever it shows up.
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Romans 8 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
You love God. He will not leave you and nothing, not wayward husbands, deranged brothers or shameful mothers will separate you from the Love of God.
Thank You all. I was MIA these past hours because I couldn't get my internet up and running. I actually had a thought, albeit short and scary, about calling Bampot and asking him to help fix it. I kept telling myself that I needed him. He could fix it and I would be better off. Then, I thought about all of YOU and how disappointed you would be in me and how disappointed I would be in myself after I read all of your posts. I decided that I COULD do it. I tried to figure it out and.....it was EASY. Couldn't have been easier. Somehow, the DSL cable got unplugged at the wall. Plugged it back in and here I am.
There isn't much I have to do to Plan B my brother anyways. We don't see each other often and I can make sure it is less often. It's really only Bdays and Holidays now anyways.
My Mom would be a harder one for me. I will seriously think about it. ARGH.
Honestly Scotty, I would strongly recommend making it "never" instead of "almost never". And of course for your mom, too.
If you cut off your family, in addition to protecting yourself from abuse which you don't deserve, it will also teach your boys how to graciously deal with abusive people.
Should these abusers ever become truly repentant, yours boys will have the opportunity to see how to forgive.
If you do not totally cut off these people, and only reduce contact to almost never, what will your children learn? That someone can abuse without consequence. Whether they eventually saw themselves as the victim or the victimizer, that would not be what you ever wanted for them.
In case you needed one more reason, it is the most loving thing you can do for your family. Your mom-person and brother-person obviously think they can be abusive without consequence. It is your privilege to show them otherwise. Your dad, an abuser himself, may also learn something as he watches.
I'll work on it Neak. It's a lot more difficult. Isn't that funny? I think it is because when I was in NC with my parents, years back, I had Bampot. Now that I am in NC with Bampot, I figured it was okay, because I had my family. I don't have a lot of friends. I only keep friends around that are good for me. I KNOW that you are speaking truth. It's just a lot to deal with all at the same time.
No guarantees. I will work on it though. It's funny. I post about what my brother said on here, and I get a protective reaction. I tell my IRL friends and they say, "Want me to kick his azz?" My family? They sat there and said nothing in my defense and my Mom actually started attacking ME. WOW.
No guarantees. I will work on it though. It's funny. I post about what my brother said on here, and I get a protective reaction. I tell my IRL friends and they say, "Want me to kick his azz?" My family? They sat there and said nothing in my defense and my Mom actually started attacking ME. WOW.
I know Limbo. It's even harder to undo the 34 years of abuse from my family. I know that if I had friends that talked to me like that.....let's just say I WOULDN'T have friends that talked to me like that. I am really working on it. I know I need to do this for me and for my kids. I was always sad that I didn't know my grandfathers. I was hoping that I could give my children all of their grandparents. Bampot doesn't really talk to his parents so they lost them. I am hoping to keep mine for them. NOT at all costs though. I could Plan B her and still have visitations for my kiddos. Wouldn't that be grand?
On a funny note. I bought DS7 some new shoes a month ago. He didn't want to get rid of the old ones. He LOVED them. So much, that he let Scooch chew the new ones so I couldn't throw the old ones away. So, I told him that he needed to save his allowance to buy a new pair of shoes. Today, I bought him a new pair while I was at work. I told him that I bought him new shoes and he said, "OMG, they are the same ones." I said, "No they aren't." He said, "Yep, Daddy took me to the store today and bought me new shoes and look Mommy, they are the same ones." I almost DIED. Out of all the shoes we both picked out the same ones. HAHAHAHAHAHA. The universe is always so funny to me. LOVE IT.
I could Plan B her and still have visitations for my kiddos. Wouldn't that be grand?
Morning Miss SCottie,
I wouldn't do this....Not yet anyway. Your mother hasn't displayed any maturity for this. Who's to say she won't bad mouth you to the boys without you there. Heck, we already KNOW what she says to you when they are present, imagine how much worse it could get if you weren't???.....
While you have no control over how much time Bampot see's the boys or what he says to them about you, there are no laws stating the grandparents have any rights to their grandbabies. IF they want to see them, then they get to learn to control their tempers and what they say.
{{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}}
I think you are over-do for some self care. I know you aren't much of a "spa" girl, but think of something that you love to do that relaxes you.....though, I'm all for a pedi. If you haven't had one, you don't KNOW what you are missing.....
My kids do not currently get to visit one set of grandparents, due to the blatant badmouthing of numerous family members and undermining that goes on. As bad as they have been, your brother and mom cast them far in the shade.
If they choose to improve, we are willing to rethink our visitation policy.
Scotty is that tough aunt, you know the one they all hide things from because she will just, you know, "not understand". When in fact, she understands full well.
It will be tough whenever you deal with them as long as they stay the same. I for one, wouldn't let them drag me down, and if that means not talk to them so be it.
Its funny though, whatch how many times they come to you for strength, when they want change, whether they do or not depends on them, but knowing who to ask is a better place to be than who to complain to.
Just be happy you are not engulfed in that crap scotty and have fun with your RL friends as much as possible. Lifes to short.
Well, just realized that today is AUGUST 6th. WF's 33rd Birthday. ARGH. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh. Gonna have to work out HARD and hit that bag harder than I ever have. Think I will do something super special for dinner tonight with the boys. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Thanx guys. actually, not too bad today. I woke up with a response from IMs from Bampot that says he is willing to buy some things for the boys for school. I really thought he would tell them to tell me that he already pays child support. It was such an unexpected response that I actually cried. I was so relieved that some of the man I used to know remained, at least for his children.
I then found out that my training class was an hour later so I had extra time to get ready. Had a GREAT workout. Threw 750 punches at the bag today. My arms are killing me but I left there smiling. I actually feel GOOD today, scares me a little. I know how whenever I feel good, it doesn't last.
Ordering pizza for dinner. Can you believe that we have NEVER had it delivered? The kids are stoked.
Here's to hoping that this good feeling can last until tomorrow at the earliest.
Pizza was good. DS10 saw it and said, "That's not what it looked like on the commercial." I said, "It usually doesn't." Then, when Bampot called DS10 on Friday night, he told them that he was taking them to see dirt bikes and ATVs race on Saturday. They were really excited. Bampot came, I went to work. When they came home, I asked them if they had fun. They said that Daddy didn't take them to the races and he didn't even tell them until they were at Costco shopping. They got to see the new Cats and Dogs movie though. Yesterday, they came home and DS10 said, "I never want to go there again. Mommy, can't someone else watch me?" I said, "What happened Buddy?" He told me that he accidentally hit DS7 and Bampot got angry with him and he raised his fist in the air. DS10 was crying. I was upset but without having all of the info, I couldn't react to it. I told DS10 that he needs to see his father, and I asked him if he wanted to call him to talk about it. He said no. Then I asked him if he wanted to email him. He said that he would but asked if I could type it since he is slower. I said that was fine.
This is what he said last night, I typed it.
Originally Posted by DS10
Daddy I am sad about what happened today. I hit DS7 on accident then you scared me when I thought you were going to punch me. I don't want to feel like that again. I was crying to mommy that I don't want to come to there anymore because of it. I like to see you but I don't like how you treat me when we are there. I am not happy daddy. I am sad daddy. Mommy told me I need to tell you my feelings and that I need to go see you. I love you daddy. love DS10 good night
This is the response from Bampot at 545am this morning
Originally Posted by Bampot
I understand how you feel DS10. I would never punch you. I was waving my arms in frustration. Sometime people do that.
I realized you hit DS7 by accident. I understood that. I was trying to figure out why you were crying. Every time I try to talk to you, you start crying. All day I was asking you two to be quieter. Right after I say, "Can you guys keep it down?", you start screaming again.
Yesterday when we were at Costco I asked you and DS7 not to run around. At first you guys were really good. You were walking around. Looking at things. Being good.
Then you started running around. I had to go looking for you alot. It really scares me when I cant find you.
All I ask DS10 and DS7 is you guys listen to me when I ask you to be quiet or not run around.
And DS10 please talk to me....you dont have to start crying. I dont understand anything you are saying when you are crying or whining. Im willing to listen but I have to understand you.
LOVE YOU DS10,
LOVE YOU DS7
It makes me laugh even more because he brings up when they went to Costco the day before because this is the email he sent them the day before,
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Thank You so much Boys for the great, fantastcc day.
I loved hearing your little laughs at the movie theater. Seeing you guys play together.
Love you DS10
Love you DS7
Just some more Wayward craziness. Well, just wanted to add something that I thought was interesting. I am sure that Bampot knew that I typed it. I used proper grammar and punctuation. That's probably why he wrote the stuff about the day before, so he could tell ME about his frustrations with the kids. Gotta make sure I stay dark. I really wanted to send a message through the IMs at first when DS10 was crying. He was so upset when he got home. I am glad I took this route instead. DS10 was smiling when he read the response from Bampot. I think he was just glad that Bampot answered him this time. Anytime he has sent a message about feelings before, he got no response. Even when he would bring up the email, Bampot would just ignore it.
It seems that in his fogginess, Bampot has forgotten that boys are LOUD and boys who are 10 and 7 are also active. They don't like to stroll through Costco or sit around being "quiet". If my boys were like that at 10 and 7, I'd wonder if they weren't feeling well.
I know. It's also because OW doesn't realize what 2 boys are like either. She has an 11 year old daughter. Boys are a whole different animal. I laughed when I read his response because I KNOW that they are ACTIVE and that is what I am CONSTANTLY saying to them too.
On another funny note, Bampot bought the boys some shirts for school too. One he bought for DS10 said, "My parents think I need to be more serious." It had a picture of video games and a kid playing.
My kids are good kids, just really active since they are boys. They can get into trouble of course, and they can give attitude with the best of them. I was actually concerned that they were behaving too WELL when they were with Bampot since he would always write them an email telling them thank you for behaving so well and being "good." I told them to "be themselves." Think it is because they are getting used to the sitch. It has been almost 8 months. I just thought it was funny. It is like dealing with 2 different people sometimes. Wayturds are WHACKADOODLES.
I am glad that he dealt with your DS emotional issue with some sensitivity. I'm sorry he didn't take them to the races, he should have been prepared for them to be hyper and pumped up, but thats all water under the bridge.
The OW is probably not prepared to even be a part time parent for them anyway and that is no surprise.
I want to speculate on why he is acting like he is, and fortune-tell how eventually his A fantasy will wear thin, but you are aware of the possibilities anyway, so why bring them up?
I just want to encourage you in what seems sometimes this most lonley endevour that you are being the loving adult in all this, and although you don't know me personally, my best wishes for you and the family are with you.
Remember that Gods in the redemtion and recovery business, and he is very good at it. He also doesn't hide the light under a rock, or compromise the truth. You are safe with Him.
Its funny, I love my DS with all my heart...but he can never sit still...I mean it is of course a good thing that he is so active, but I grew up with just me and my sister..We played Barbies and dollhouse or board games...My DS is 9 and sometimes I am just like "Do you want to sit and play a board game or play with legos."....Well he hates to relax at all, sometimes I need a break from being Robin to his Batman or the bad guy that is being chased....but I wouldnt trade it for the world...
I read a lot and did a lot of model building and what -not as a kid, but I was allways getting in trouble for being a boy who couldn't sit still. Allways with the building forts and sports games and playing batman or space ghost or army. Or getting into things that i wasn't supposed to also.
Whats that ryheme? "(somethin) and snails and puppy-dog tails, thats what little boys are made of"
I grew up with my twin brother and my aunt's six boys who lived less than a mile away (and was a willing participant in all the fun) so I was ready for the whole tree climbing-grass stained-jump off the roof- band-aids and stitches-life of a mother of boys.
As a matter-of-fact, I was the coolest mom in my OS's 2nd grade class because *I* had taught him how to do armpit farts.
OH I AM SPLITTING A GUT. ARMPIT FARTS. I don't think they have learned how to do those yet. Maybe I should learn first HEHEHEHEHE.
Boys are really a different kind of animal. How many times have I been sitting quietly watching TV when I hear, SMASH, "OOPS." Then I say, "No throwing balls in the house, that rule has not expired and has been the same since before you were born."
every day I say to myself, "I'm raising men, I'm raising men." It keeps me sane knowing that I just don't understand some of what they do since they ARE different because they are boys. I don't understand how they can spend ALL DAY playing video games. Why they feel the need to make everything a gun and why they always have to chase bad guys. It's really fun to watch when they are playing. When they are fighting, they are MEAN. Girls use words and hurt feelings. Boys want BLOOD.
They are currently in their room building lego ships have a GIANT WAR before bed. Yea, lego all over the floor. HAHAHAHAHA
every day I say to myself, "I'm raising men, I'm raising men." It keeps me sane knowing that I just don't understand some of what they do since they ARE different because they are boys. I don't understand how they can spend ALL DAY playing video games. Why they feel the need to make everything a gun and why they always have to chase bad guys. It's really fun to watch when they are playing. When they are fighting, they are MEAN. Girls use words and hurt feelings. Boys want BLOOD
Since my youngest DS is special needs and in a wheelchair and my oldest is 9 years older, my DD is absolutely puzzled by OC when he visits. OC is 5 and a boy. I keep telling her boys are just "weird" to girls. They are different. I so treasure my memories of my oldest making guns out of legos or whatever else he could get his hands on.
Yesterday, OC used the handrail at church (no it doesn't move) as a weapon! No kidding they are different! I EMBRACE the difference because they will one day be men. My oldest is nearly 27. He is such a lovely young man now.
When I was around 10, I convinced the neibors kid to go on an adventure climbing thru a culvert in front of his house. We put on a rope so we could be like cave climbers and spent six hours going around 30 ft in the tightest old stonewall culvert ever made, untill we came to a section that was regular round drainage pipe.
It was like we discovered the bat-cave.
We got in big trouble when we heard them calling us and we had to answer them. They allmost called the fire dept. Lol.
Then there was hanging upside down under the railroad bridge over the top of the diesels. I was the only idiot to do that, along with walk on top of the waterfalls with my boots just barely getting traction.
By the time i was 17 I counted 165 stiches I had recieved in varuous acts of stupidity. The largest group was from the corrective surgery on my right leg after almost getting it chopped off by a racing snowmobile bogey wheels.(35 stitches) The rest were from 5-10 stitch deals. lol
I used to get a nail in my foot weekly in my "CP, Go clean that lumber" ritual practiced by me and my Dad. Soaking my feet in salt hot water was ussually the cure for that.
I was the neighborhood Go-cart builder and the other mothers would hate me. We were the only family rich enough to have spare lumber,(thanks Dad),and axle material so when the lawnmower wheels would go missing, you know where they went.
The hill we rode them down was awesome. All the other kids in school thought I was nuts. I guess I was just a boy with something to prove. Fearless or brainless, I guess it was a combo.
Nah, I don't think you would let them be that stupid, I was poorly supervised and pushed ridiculessly by inner security issues. Funny though I was mostly inspired by books and wanted to be a hero when I grew up. Comic books yeah, but good novels also. I considered myself a bookworm and would escape there most of the time.
My aunt told me that I needed to read to be intellegent, that is probably what both saved me and tested my bravery at the same time. I loved and continue to love Mark twain, but it probably wasn't wise for me to read it. lol
It was fun to reminice <sp> Lucky I made it through, teen years got even more scary until I got married at 18. But I learned what it took to be a man when I had a son. It wasn't dare-devil stunts and I thank God for that experience. You KWIM
Just to add to the "boys" conversation. My three sons are a definite mess....and I forgot to add Scotty that the reason my A/C broke was because earlier today I had to wash one of my cushions off my couch. I told my DS10, "Here, take this cushion out in the sunshine to dry, but make sure it's off the ground so it won't get dirty." Well, I think you know the rest....yes, he put it on top of the A/C unit...LOL
It burned up some little part in there that works the compressor. That was $126 and then the same DS was packed with 20 outfits for camp and guess how much he came back with? Zero. Yes, my son left all his clothes at camp. He came back with a swim suit, a pair of dr. pepper pj bottoms, and his toiletries. I told him that he has cost me over $200 in just a few days. After getting steaming mad....I had to laugh.
Just to add to the "boys" conversation. My three sons are a definite mess....and I forgot to add Scotty that the reason my A/C broke was because earlier today I had to wash one of my cushions off my couch. I told my DS10, "Here, take this cushion out in the sunshine to dry, but make sure it's off the ground so it won't get dirty." Well, I think you know the rest....yes, he put it on top of the A/C unit...LOL
It burned up some little part in there that works the compressor. That was $126 and then the same DS was packed with 20 outfits for camp and guess how much he came back with? Zero. Yes, my son left all his clothes at camp. He came back with a swim suit, a pair of dr. pepper pj bottoms, and his toiletries. I told him that he has cost me over $200 in just a few days. After getting steaming mad....I had to laugh.
OMG HopeE, I actually LOL'd on the clothes items. I guess that is the essential for the boys wardrobe, a swimsuit and a pair of pj bottoms. I have to MAKE my kids change their clothes. Even after a shower. And then, I have to MAKE them wear underwear. they love running around a naked. Another male trait I think. HEHEHEHEHE Moms of just girls don't understand. I have been told that it gets easier with boys and that girls become a NIGHTMARE during the teenaged years for moms. That's when girls rebel and pull away. they always come back though.
I have wonderful kiddos, they just drive me nutty. Tonight, they are sleeping on the couches. It is so they can play video games at the crack of dawn. What funny children. I will probably be sleeping before they are. HAHAHAHAHA
I totally get the no underwear thing. I took DS10 and DS11 school clothes shopping today. We went into department store to get some pants. The sales lady was standing right there with me when I reached down to look at label in DS10's pants he had on. Imagine my embarassment when I pulled them back to reveal a little baby butt crack:)
I couldn't believe it, but hey, he left all his clothes at camp including the underwear....
When my OS (who was also the ER king in our house for his first 12 years) went to camp with his best friend, they smelled soooo bad when their dads picked them up-the men made the boys sit in the very last seat of the SUV. (We moms did the drop off...clever planning dontcha think? )
When I opened his bag, I found most of his clothes still folded and all but two pair of socks still matched and "clean". I asked if he changed his socks or showered the whole week. "We swam every day." was the answer.
OMG...Hope your kids are hysterical...and the couch cushion thing...OMG, Mwahahahahah!!!
And the naked thing...almost every night when I tuck DS in bed I get the "Look mama, my peepee is nocturnal!"...Im like yes yes thats just great son...
And to add to that, I am rather well endowed in the chest area..and no matter how much I speak to him about it or how much I tell him how inappropriate it is...DS occasionally feel the need to "honk" them like a horn...Now I walk around with padded bras, which I dont need...just for the added "protection"...little boys obsessed with "boobies"...I am in so much trouble with this kid.
When my OS (who was also the ER king in our house for his first 12 years) went to camp with his best friend, they smelled soooo bad when their dads picked them up-the men made the boys sit in the very last seat of the SUV. (We moms did the drop off...clever planning dontcha think? )
When I opened his bag, I found most of his clothes still folded and all but two pair of socks still matched and "clean". I asked if he changed his socks or showered the whole week. "We swam every day." was the answer.
"Ohhhhh...thats what those extra clothes were for?"
I am laffin so hard that I can barely see the screen. My sides hurt. OMG. You guys are great. LOVE BOYS. I am gonna miss them when they move out, although, DS7 says he is going to live with me FOREVER. SHUDDER. I better get that kid married off as soon as he is 18 HAHAHAHAHA J/K. My friend's 4YO D has said she is going to marry my DS7. He came to me and said, "Mommy, FDD4 said she is going to marry me." When we went to the movies, FDD4 and DS7 went to see Toys Story 3 with friend's husband, we were watching Eclipse. Friend's husband texts friend and says, "I feel like I am a chaperone for their first date." They came out of the movie and DS7 said that she put her hand on his knee. I told him that wasn't appropriate they are too young for that. OH NOOOOOO. I think I need to worry.
Still, HONK HONK. Priceless. I am DYING over here guys, THANX
..Moms of just girls don't understand. I have been told that it gets easier with boys and that girls become a NIGHTMARE during the teenaged years for moms. That's when girls rebel and pull away. they always come back though.
It must be sorta karma. It was different with my DD, girls have different needs than boys, I have heard that to deal with all girls is hard for a guy. When my DD reached puberty my wife did have some issues with her but for the most part she was great. Daddys little girl.
I heard something our Pastor said that seemed somewhat wise at one time and he meant it in a general sense I believe. He said "Boys have problems with obedience, and girls have problems with loyalty"
I looked at it compared to the way girls deal with problems or challanges as it differs from boys. Most girls are able to multitask and solve issues by many different approches, finding the way through by whatever works and wearing down the problem in a number of ways. They see more sides to the issue because of how thier minds work. Multi-faceted so to speak. The generization that women mature faster than men I believe is true because they have to deal with emotions more than men do, which gives them a wider scope.
Us guys see the issue and attack it without thinking it through relying on our determination and strength only, not that women don't have those things, lol, he11 no, but they are smarter and tend to use there brains first.
So boys are stubborn and want to deal with things thier way instead of doing what they are told.They bang there heads stubbornly and rush in
Girls are true to what there emotions tell them is true,(as it links to there convictions} and will abandon something that doesn't serve them, if its to painful or unfair to thier convictions.
Both are subject to learning of course.
That was my take on what he said. At least that way it made sense and didn't DJ women.
I allways thought a clever saying was. "Man may be head of the household but woman is the neck that turns the head"
Thank God for that, men that ignore the counsel of women are foolish, they are way smarter than us in the important things most of the time. We want to keep it simple, and its anything but when it comes many things in life.
My boys were stubborn little guys. My duaghter was the defender of the weak. (PS she was stubborn too)
..When I opened his bag, I found most of his clothes still folded and all but two pair of socks still matched and "clean". I asked if he changed his socks or showered the whole week. "We swam every day." was the answer.
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
..And the naked thing...almost every night when I tuck DS in bed I get the "Look mama, my peepee is nocturnal!"...Im like yes yes thats just great son...
I met my WH when I was 15. We started dating when I was 16. My parents started dating when they were 15 and 17. It happens. I don't believe it when people say, "They got married too young. BLAH BLAH BLAH." that doesn't have to mean anything. There are people who get married young and stay together forever and there are people who get married older and barely stay any length of time. There are a lot more factors than how old you were when you got together. With my WH I just KNEW. He KNEW too, just unfortunate that he forgot so easily now huh?
CP, I liked how you explained what that pastor said. That was pretty cool.
..CP, I liked how you explained what that pastor said. That was pretty cool.
So it made sense? Oh SNAP.
I agree with you about marrying young, I was determined to stay married when I was young too. I guess we let things get out of hand and neither of us were really ready. Even with the OC it was more of my own insecurities that caused me to leave the marriage. It was just to much for me to handle. We met at a time when we were rebeliuos young partiers, and when I straigtened out after marriage and the birth of my first Son, she didn't recognize me. Hence the confusion and A.
I think being in love when your that age is the sweetest and I commend those parents who give thier children the upbringing that respects the marriage commitment. May we all be so blessed.
I agree with girls having an issue with loyalty. I see it with my DD14. She realizes that WH was wrong in what he did or is doing, but she wants to be in the good with both of us. The boys...definitely behavior issues whether with me or WH. They are very protective of me now though....especially DS11.
Stillhere, that's hilarious about the naked thing....I bet we could write a book about boy isms:)
Yes Boys are definitely different...They definitely are missing that shame chromosone(sp) when it comes to wearing any clothes!!!
I remember my DH (now WH) going out to get the mail at the end of our driveway with only his boxer briefs and sneakers on...I said "you cant go out like that" he replied "These are just like shorts no one will even notice"....Next thing I hear is a horn beeping and someone yelling out "NICE UNDERWEAR, DUDE!"
Yes Boys are definitely different...They definitely are missing that shame chromosone(sp) when it comes to wearing any clothes!!!
I remember my DH (now WH) going out to get the mail at the end of our driveway with only his boxer briefs and sneakers on...I said "you cant go out like that" he replied "These are just like shorts no one will even notice"....Next thing I hear is a horn beeping and someone yelling out "NICE UNDERWEAR, DUDE!"
Lol I laid out in the sun once,(years ago), in my black bikini briefs cuz I thought nobody would know they were underwear. Well they did ..
My DS19 walks into the front yard with his boxer briefs a lot. Must be that chromozone
LOL! haven't read your thread for a while, Scotty - glad I did because it's always hilarious! WH lives in his boxers. And sometimes a dressing gown in the winter. Same clothes every day for a weeks, sometimes. Thought it was just him - glad to know there are other men out there like that!
Just got l`il bean circumcised...can`t wait for all the boy-isms to start!
and CP...Please refrain from wearing your boxer briefs outside as shorts. I thought when lying in the sun men wore a sock for no tan lines..Mwhahahahahah!!!!!
Speaking of little boy stories, my oldest son was ADD before they added the H to that diagnosis. We have some great stories about him growing up. One my favorites is from his first day at school. I was so worried about him doing well because he was, shall we say, a little rambuctious (sp?).
He came home that afternoon and I asked him (fearfully) how his 1st day of school went and did he mind the teacher.
He said, "Oh yes, mommy, I love school and I minded the teacher."
I let out a sigh of relief.
Then he said, "Everytime she told me to stand in the corner I did!"
Speaking of little boy stories, my oldest son was ADD before they added the H to that diagnosis. We have some great stories about him growing up. One my favorites is from his first day at school. I was so worried about him doing well because he was, shall we say, a little rambuctious (sp?).
He came home that afternoon and I asked him (fearfully) how his 1st day of school went and did he mind the teacher.
He said, "Oh yes, mommy, I love school and I minded the teacher."
I let out a sigh of relief.
Then he said, "Everytime she told me to stand in the corner I did!"
Thanx for the levity. Love the stories. These are the memories we will all cherish when we are old and gray. Okay, I may already be gray but that's what DYE is for.
Boys are WONDERFUL. I will keep repeating this for the next 15 years or so.
Oh he was always surprising us (he hates! these stories now, lol).
Another one was once when his dad and I were arguing in the morning. I said, "Your attitude really stinks!"
Apparently I said it loud enough for the kids to overhear because that night after all 4 kids were down for the night, my DH and started having another disagreement and suddenly my 7 year old son pipes up from the other room in a sing-song voice, "I smell an attitude!!!"
I LOVE the things kids say....Just today with my DS and my mother...My moms friend was supposed to go out to lunch with us and for the second week in a row she cancelled....Well when we left the restaurant my DS said to my mother "Well nana, it looks like your imaginary friend didnt show up for lunch again today."....hahahah, me and my mom were dying laughing...
Then we went to the rock store after (DS loves rocks) and DS accidentally dropped a rock on the floor, my mom was standing next to him looking at something else.....and when it dropped my DS immediately shouted "NANA YOU SHOULD BE MORE CAREFUL!"...My mother was laughing and said "What do you mean 'NANA' should be more careful?" and DS replied "I couldnt blame mama, she was all the way over there"....We were all laughing all the way home....I love that kid.
My Grand-daughter just finished being potty-trained. I watch her two days a week while my DD works.
She used to want to be left alone when she had to poop,(in her diaper), and would go to her room or tell you to go away when she went.
Well one day I had her at my house. She wanted to play in the kitchen doing whatever she wanted, touching the wrong stuff, basiccally getting into trouble.
At one point she was getting frustrated that Grampa was stopping her from just about everything she wanted to do, I swear I saw a little light bulb go off in her head when she said, "Yes Grampa, I have to poop" as she assumed the pose by grabbing the countertop and leaning over and motioned I should leave the room.
I went along because I know she was embarrassed about it and I couldn't be sure, but I returned often and she was faking. I let it pass for the moment.
When she started to reach for something wrong again a little later she stopped, looked at me, and said she had to poop again. I told her "No, you don't, if you want to poop, it will have to be in the other room, you can't poop in here.
Sorry for t/jing your thread Scotty....I made a new thread over on "Other Topics" for these great stories...They cheer me up and sometimes we need sum of dat!
Still, as always, I am welcoming TJs. This may be marriage builders but it also LIFE. It might be good for some other posters now and in the future to read these stories and see themselves in it. I am a person, just like everyone else and my life has led me here. I am so THANKFUL that I just want to pay it forward. THAT is the only real way I can help here. Even if I just offer some distraction from the pain sometimes.
Now, back to some MBing. I don't know where else to put it, I don't want to start another thread about this, but I do want it SOMEWHERE.
First, I have had discussions many times about WWs and WHs. There have been times when it has been told to me that WWs have a less chance of coming back after an affair. Is this really true? Do WWs actually not come back more often? I know that we can't just go by what we see here because obviously there are more BWs on the board than BHs. It could be because there are more WHs out there than WWs(although I don't know if I believe that there is a difference in gender for adultery but it is a possibility). It is possible that more BWs will stick around after infidelity than BHs. It could also be that BHs are more reluctant to post and find help on the internet and books and that could be why they aren't here. I don't know the reasons for it, I just know that there are more BWs than BHs.
Second, I read a couple of days ago, a post by MrW(I think) about how Plan B isn't really about saving one's marriage. As a BW, who has been in Plan B for almost 8 months, I was UPSET. DrH suggests that BWs only Plan A for 3-4 weeks and then go into Plan B. He also suggests that BHs Plan A for about 6 months and then go to Plan B. Now, if that means that Plan B is REALLY about PERSONAL recovery than wouldn't that mean that DrH is telling BWs that there is NO CHANCE? I don't remember reading anywhere that DrH believes this to be true.
I know that personal recovery DOES come from Plan B. I know it because I am LIVING it. I also know that I may NEVER recover my marriage. I don't believe that going into Plan B was anything about NOT recovering my marriage though.
I see this comment about Plan B being a cancer that will eat at the fabric of MB itself. I can already see it going into other people's threads. I want a TRUE discussion about it somewhere. I would prefer to NOT get my thread locked though, so I would ask that anyone responding to this do so respectfully and following the MB guidelines.
I know I have a lot to learn still, I am just upset that a comment like that was made and now the thought is spreading around, which may cause some posters to NOT go into Plan B. THIS WILL cause more marriages to NOT survive from infidelity. There have been times when I thought about what DrH was truly discussing in his books and the things on here. I wondered sometimes if maybe he was saying one thing but really only trying to do another. Then I thought about what Faithful Follower would say, (I am paraphrasing it) "Don't let Satan in your head."
Discuss......(respectfully and according to the rules please).
An old post on the subject - some of the links are broken, where I could, I added the url's to be sure
Originally Posted by NSR
I've decided to write about some of the basics of Plan B... You may think this odd but I have am still in Plan A but have had a few sessions with Steve Harley about the movement from Plan A to Plan B. Comments here include my discussions with Steve Harley. Many people have been posting on Plan A & Plan B... and I said I'd get back to them on my take on Plan B. I welcome as many comments on other points of view... I am not the expert... you've got to go the Harley's for that! First a few quotes from the book...
Quote
(#3.) The (betrayed) spouse needs to know that he/she had done his/her best to save their marriage. (page 76 of "Surviving An Affair"(SAA))
and
Quote
(#4.) If the (betrayed) spouse follows the plans (A & B), and they(the plans) fail, the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse. (page 76 of SAA)
To this end... one needs to note a few important aspects of Plan B...
A.Both Plan A and Plan B are a cohesive step of steps that lead down a very narrow path of marital recovery They must work together if Plan A does not work by itself. B.You start Plan B only after some time in Plan A... a normal amount of time in Plan A could/should be about 6 months... but can be as little a nothing to much more than 6 months. C.Plan B can only be as effective as Plan A was in setting up a foundation for the establishing a "safe" environment for the wayward spouse to return! D.That environment must also be "non-threatening", yet "changing" where the wayward can clearly see that there are improvements made in the betrayed's ability to meet the waywards emotional needs. E.Continuing in Plan A is recommended until the wayward ultimately show signs of complete rejection of accepting there have been improvements by the betrayed and/or the betrayed's feelings turn to one of overt anger and resentment! F.Plan B should be put off as long as possible and builds off the benefits derived from Plan A! G.Damaging a good track record of Plan A can be done in as little as one day of Love Busting and what the betrayed remembers is the most recent actions before Plan B! H.Plan B has to have a seamless transition from Plan A, because once the betrayed is in Plan B there is no more laying down a foundation! I.Plan B also should have a time limit... 6 months?... 12 months?... 18 months?... ? years?... it varies. Since most affairs, that do come to an end, normally last about 2 years(more or less)... the duration of Plan B does vary! J.Plan B should start off with a Plan B letter... see in SAA...pages 80-81! (Notes to MB Forum members later..) K.This letter is not a Love Busting letter... but quite the opposite! It is to make clear that love still does exist... but the loving relationship that was to be cultivated in Plan A... will not go on as normal... L.Plan B: Avoid (all) contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has ended. (page 79 of SAA) M.Plan B is not meant to punish the wayward spouse! But to protect the betrayed... to protect the betrayed spouse's Love Bank for the wayward... so it is not drained below any recoverable state. N.A consequence of this 'no contact' is that it will then put the burden of satisfying ALL(or most) of the wayward's Emotional Needs on the OP! A very hard thing to do, in most situations... O.During the time of Plan B the wayward is to "build" oneself... to work on themselves... to prepare oneself to live without the wayward spouse... and develop tools for good healthy relationships! That includes no Love Busting... since that is an unhealthy action in relationships. P.With children in the picture Plan B, in the full sense of "no contact", is sometimes impossible. Everything possible needs to be done so the children will know they are not being abandoned... contact with them must not be stopped or hindered in any way! Just contact with the spouse. Logistics here are difficult... but should be thought through carefully and creatively. Q.Variations on Plan B are discouraged by the Harley's... those variations tend to weaken the impact intended in Plan B. R.Again... if Plan B fails... the (betrayed) spouse would no longer have any feelings of love for the wayward spouse and that would allow a less painful subsequent divorce and would permit the pursuit of a new... much healthier relationship. For the moment... I have seen several good examples of Plan B letters.. and I list them here... Sample Plan B letter (see Chris' reply) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009414.html Sample Plan B letter (from PLEASE HELP) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010065.html Sample Plan B letter (from Rutger) http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010844.html NSR's draft Plan B letter(under construction) (link broken - Lil) (if anyone else would volunteer their letter... please reply) I understand there is a great fear in all of Plan B... What happens if Plan B fails?... It can and does happen... {Distressed}... had just such a post... view it... Is it time to file?! In my normal welcome wagon message I do state... "There is never any guarantee to save all marriages..."... we must be realistic to recognize this. Try as much as we like... we cannot force our waywards to change their minds... we and they are, after all, given free will... Yes, Plan B... is a big step... make sure you understand what you are choosing... seek guidance from the Harley's if you're not sure!!! If you accept Plan B... seek also the support and fellowship of the people on the Forum... you'll need it! I have written a post for Plan A at Plan A - 101. My experiences of Plan A and Plan B, and other's here at the forum, are meant to enlighten not be treated as a replacement for formal counseling.
After 2 and a half years of MB, my impression of plan B is that it: 1. Makes the WS find out what life is like without the BS 2. Removes the BS from any more crazy making caused by the WS need for drama 3.Protects the kernel of love the BS has so that if, after the statistically likely break-up of the affair the WS wants to try again, the BS has a little something in reserve, which might make them consider getting on the recovery roller coaster. 4. If the affair breakdown still leaves the WS with a serious case of recto-cranial embedding, the kernel of love the BS has will fade, flicker and die down allowing the BS to turn the '2 year corner' and focus on their new life they have been making for themselves during plan B.
Scotty, none of the plans will give you control over the WS, they give you control over YOU. Whether or not the WS changes in a way that leads to recovery is outside of anyone but the WS's control.
As far as the WW are less likely to return that the WH, I believe the hypothesis is that a wife will allow her $LB to go further into the red than a husband before deciding to leave, so not only is there no love left, its almost into the deficit level of hate. This makes it a harder road to get a WW on board. Also the WW will typically give her all to her OP, leaving nothing for the BH. WH's seem to be more into cake eating for whatever reason.
As far as the WW are less likely to return that the WH, I believe the hypothesis is that a wife will allow her $LB to go further into the red than a husband before deciding to leave, so not only is there no love left, its almost into the deficit level of hate. This makes it a harder road to get a WW on board. Also the WW will typically give her all to her OP, leaving nothing for the BH. WH's seem to be more into cake eating for whatever reason.
This is my take on that issue also. The whole post is imformative though, as well as your summary IMO.
To me I try to think of Plan B as...What other choices are there...Living with a wayward spouse who wont stop and affair..or protecting myself from the pain of WS selfishness...
Lets face it our WH are having an A...Plan B is not what is going to damage our chances at a marriage recovery, the A is...
The M has already been broken....Plan B is our best chance now.
Oh Lil, I KNOW that MB does not control WS at ALL. I get this. I was just really upset when I read that comment and I was like, "WHAT? So, now BWs go into Plan B after a few weeks(this is a newer version of DrHs advice apparently, he used to recommend 6 months for everyone) and that is the END of their marriage?" I know that there are risks in entering into Plan B. Risks that the WS will NEVER come back. I get that. I didn't enter into Plan B lightly. I followed the plans. Not just for marital recovery but for all of the benefits of Plan B. I don't want posters to get stuck in Plan A because they don't want to give up on their marriage. There is already a HUGE reluctance to going into Plan B. I just wanted a good discussion on what is really going on for Plan B.
Second, I read a couple of days ago, a post by MrW(I think) about how Plan B isn't really about saving one's marriage. As a BW, who has been in Plan B for almost 8 months, I was UPSET. DrH suggests that BWs only Plan A for 3-4 weeks and then go into Plan B. He also suggests that BHs Plan A for about 6 months and then go to Plan B. Now, if that means that Plan B is REALLY about PERSONAL recovery than wouldn't that mean that DrH is telling BWs that there is NO CHANCE? I don't remember reading anywhere that DrH believes this to be true.
Scotland, he is not telling BS' there is no chance. He is saying there is LESS CHANCE if you don't. Plan B is about removing yourself from the circle of abuse from the affair. Staying in contact with an active wayward is dangerous because it depletes the lovebank so badly that feelings can turn to hate.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Plan B is not designed to send a message to your husband, or to let him think about how much he'll miss you after a divorce. It is designed to protect you from the emotional fallout of your husband's affair. It's a risky move, because it often leads to divorce. But the alternatives are even worse. If you don't go to plan B, when it's all over, you'd be an emotional basketcase.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly.
That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS.
The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.
So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover. In your case, you've noticed that you have experienced a detached feeling about it all, even your husband's filing for divorce. That's the way it's supposed to turn out. You are far more attractive while in emotional control of yourself than you would ever be begging and pleading for his return. You tried that tactic already, and it hasn't worked.
Plan B doesn't always work, but it does protect you from the intense emotional pain that you could be experiencing day in and day out. Your husband may divorce you, but it won't be because you have implemented plan B. And if he returns to you, it won't be because you have implemented plan B. But if he does return, with a sincere willingness to completely leave his lover and follow our plan for recovery, he'll find a wife who is still sane if you follow plan B.
from His Needs, Her Needs, pg 168
"A separation is helpful in protecting the emotions of the betrayed spouse. But another reason a separation is helpful is that the betrayed spouse withholds the fulfillment of needs he/she performed prior to the affair. In most cases, a lover meets one to two important emotional needs, and a spouse meets two or three. The wayward spouse comes to realize that the lover cannot meet needs his/her spouse had met and it sometimes leads to the realization that "you can't have your cake and eat it too." A separation may also result in the opportunity for unpleasant experiences between a spouse and a lover, driving down the Love Bank account, but don't count on it."
In summation, Scotland, Plan B gives your marriage the best chance possible even though the odds are bad when a spouse will not end his affair. And if your WS does not wake up and come back you are better prepared for divorce because you will be emotionally detached at that point.
Thank You Mel, as always you pull out what I needed and couldn't find. I KNOW Plan B is the best thing for ME. I KNOW it was the only chance that I had left. I believe in the MB principles. I follow the concepts. I am NOT questioning whether or not I should have done Plan B, I DID IT. I am just throwing it out there so there will be BOTH sides and more importantly, DrH's side.
Thank you to all who are posting on the topic. You are helping me learn more about MB. For that, I can never repay you enough.
There were MANY things that went on before I came to MB. I am so appreciative for what has happened since I have come here. My WH was already having an affair for who knows how long. Our marriage was already in a tailspin. I didn't know what to do. I think of MB like an emergency manual that you find just before you hit the ground. I was a quick study and I got on board FAST. How could I not? I was about to CRASH. Now, I don't even recognize that person anymore. I am HAPPIER than I have been in YEARS. I miss my dear husband terribly, BUT he has been gone for a long time already. I am definitely better off now than I was before. there are DEFINITE benefits for personal recovery in Plan B.
With every day comes new insight into YOU, and you WILL feel better. It's not a lie or some ruse to draw you in. It's a tactical maneuver; the trick is to work hard at doing it WELL. Learn from your mistakes EARLY on, cut the contact. Hold back, don't pick up the phone to tell him one last thing, one last effort, one final crumb. Let this sink in. Nothing can SINK in if you keep moving it around. Let it be.
You will feel better; read up on everyone in Plan B. Check Sis, Chrisner, Wildhorses, sdguy, eav, lunamare, gosh, MOI (in my best Miss Piggy voice)
Oh, yeah, and chivers, IHC, reachingout, ken, etc.
You will have so much support. Don't forget to post, when you are feeling weak and KNOW you shouldn't do something, POST FIRST. If you hear yourself justifying contact or making excuses, STOP and POST. Tell us, let us thwack you upside the head, knock the sense back into you. We are a great tool against A's, USE US.
Here, SL is answering a question form a poster named LilSis about grieving your WS while you are in Plan B. Pay special attention to the highlighted part. GOLDEN.
Originally Posted by Silentlucidity
Now, for your current grief process. I noticed that my feelings of grief were more profound after about a month in Plan B. The love you have stored away is revealing itself. You are thinking about what you loved, what you miss. When the WAYWARD is out of sight, they are out of MIND, so you choose to remember your H.
Plan B is like saying goodbye, to the triangle. It's tough, when we SELF extract from that situation. I would not hesitate to say that your WH sounds like SO MANY that have passed through here (by way of the stories of other BS's). My WH is really not different either.
I still want my H to contact me, to tell me that he will do whatever it takes for however long it takes, etc. and so on. He's not there, and the likelihood of MY WH getting there anytime soon is pretty low.
I like to think that somethings gotta give. I have been feeling a bit down this week, as my DS is having his own set of problems. Life ITSELF can be overwhelming.
Without all of the drama, everything is quiet, and the time and energy you spent on your Plan A is now free for you to think and OVERTHINK. We all do it; you are not alone.
Mimi said it best to me a while back, when I initiated Plan B; she said that she pretended that her WH did not exist, and went about her life. From reading her thread during Plan B, she had many thoughts like this, but she somehow always managed to get back on the MIMI track. She didn't dwell on things. It's something I'm trying to do now.
OMG, CHRISNER came up with the idea of having the emoticon on here. Every time I use it, I will say a "Thanx" to Chrisner.
A.Both Plan A and Plan B are a cohesive step of steps that lead down a very narrow path of marital recovery They must work together if Plan A does not work by itself.
I think we (the BS) are so lost and broken when we come here that we often overlook little pieces of information that are so critical. This being one of them.
I am grateful that I found this site and grateful for all the support I have received; I would not have survived without knowing that there were others who felt the same and could give me perspective from experience.
I have also thought through all the reading I have done here that M's that did not survive seem to prevail. But the BS has come out of the drama a stronger person, with more insight and understanding.
I also see the M's that have survived from MB concepts, they just seem to be in the minority. Unfortunately with the media, cell phones, and social networking; bad behavior and judgment seem to be more common than not.
I am not sure how those of us who have survived with most of our conscious intake start changing the culture? But IMHO we will only see infidelity rise. How very sad....
Plan B is not designed to send a message to your husband, or to let him think about how much he'll miss you after a divorce. It is designed to protect you from the emotional fallout of your husband's affair. It's a risky move, because it often leads to divorce. But the alternatives are even worse. If you don't go to plan B, when it's all over, you'd be an emotional basketcase.
Have you MET me? I am the poster child, and no I don't get credit for loving her. I lost site how to when I stopped loving myself. For a whole lot of reasons, I compromised what I knew was right and accepted what I never should have for a long time, and I am suffering from it now.
Originally Posted by Dr Harley
..The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation.
..works when men dive into the mess too. Do you really think I didn't "know better" when I chased her and took all the blame? It took years of breaking down good boundaries for me to fall apart, but fall apart I did. Let me tell you, that damage is worse than what my WW dealt out. What I did to myself.
I am currently seeing a therapist and I know I have along journey back.
Plan B, well someone out of the two should have thier feet on planet earth while they refuse to be part of a relationship as abusive as an affiar. Its a priviledge to be real isn't it? What many BSs seem to realize is that they are the priveledged ones, not the foolish and lost waywards. If Plan B is a cancer to the way it "Used to be" then let it kill it. The BSs will benifet from something completly new, not from new wine put back in the old skins.
If the marriage is to be recovered then let the BS put the past problems behind along with the Foggy alien Pod and welcome the new, humble, reformed partner to a completly new relationship. I can't see that happening if they stay in plan A and get abused, as a matter of fact I know from experience it doesn't work, and you both go down the foggy drain.
The marriage is a priveledge, not a right, and like any privelige if it is abused it colapses and becomes a curse, especially when it involves abusing someone selfishly and tearing thier heart out as it is in affairs. Marriage is also a powerful tool if treated with respect, when we weild it right it strengthens each other beyond what we could do alone.
The tool has sharp teeth, when someone abuses it they destroy themselves and the marriage partner. Getting away from an abusive one and protecting yourself is the only wise option. You are worth it.
Mimi said it best to me a while back, when I initiated Plan B; she said that she pretended that her WH did not exist, and went about her life. From reading her thread during Plan B, she had many thoughts like this, but she somehow always managed to get back on the MIMI track. She didn't dwell on things. It's something I'm trying to do now.
It is said that a betrayal or left lover is dealt with much like a death in our heart and minds. This has allways made sense to me as to how deep it feels.
Plan B keeps us from this pain that will keep hurting us, and allows us to move on. Thank God for the realistic and solid support from grown ups like the Harleys and all these people on this site.
What this site has taught me is that my marriage was floundering a long time ago. The depression and emotional from not doing what I should have then could have been avoided if I had been here and followed this advice. In knowing this there is peace. Forgiveness for myself and her, and understanding. No excuses mind you, I screwed up, and my emotions were my excuse, and what makes me human.
I wanted you to see that the B-People before you .... did whatever necessary to save mind, body, and soul. The Killer Bees were so supportive of each other. They all shared experiences that I never had. Their shared wisdom/tears/rage/comfort was a blessing they gave to each other. I did not post on that thread, but I prayed for every one of them. And I admire them muchly.
What this site has taught me is that my marriage was floundering a long time ago. The depression and emotional from not doing what I should have then could have been avoided if I had been here and followed this advice. In knowing this there is peace. Forgiveness for myself and her, and understanding. No excuses mind you, I screwed up, and my emotions were my excuse, and what makes me human.
But I can still learn
VERY well said, CP. Even if my marriage does not recover from MB, I know that going forward into the future, having these tools WILL allow me to have the marriage I always wanted, and deserved to have! Not that the A was my fault, but I can't pretend we didn't have other problems before. One thing I will always remember from our sessions with Steve is him telling me that it is MY responsibility for my spouse to be in love with me.
Pep, thank you for the thread bump. It is DEFINITELY a good read. I am having a lot of fun with it. I actually should be going to bed but it is so much FUN to read.
I really was not having a hard time with Plan B. What I was dealing with was that the one comment was made on someone else's thread. I read it and initially wanted to say something there, but didn't know how to do it without getting the wrath of MB posters. I didn't want to cause more damage. Then I read someone else actually talk about the concept on their own thread. I am NOT saying that the original poster meant any disrespect or even any malice. I believe that the original poster was just telling the person on that ONE thread something for THEM and THEIR SITCH. I also know that there is A LOT of other people reading the threads and that they make take it to mean something else. I just wanted something to show that Plan B isn't JUST about personal recovery. I know that there ARE examples of people who have been in Plan B and recovered. I know that there are MANY MORE who didn't. There are also people who didn't do the MB way and still recover. I just think that MB IS for me and Plan B DEFINITELY HELPED ME(and my marriage, which seems funny even as I type because I don't currently HAVE a "marriage")
I am at the part of the thread where the Killer Bees talk about checking people out and being checked out. I think it is HILARIOUS. I also started to notice that. I can actually appreciate the male body in ways I haven't in 18.5 years. I even started noticing men checking me out sometimes. Still feels a little creepy but good at the same time. Good to know that am NORMAL. THAT is the BEST part of MB. KNOWING I AM NOT ALONE. I appreciate you all more than you know, even the ones who just read and never post.
Not to mention, the KILLER BEES had humor up the whazoo ... and they put it to good use.
LilSis's ending ... they divorced. Her WH (a cop) married the OW (a waitress with 'high milage' working at the diner where cops hang out) who also divorced her BH (a lawyer). LilSis was arrested for beating up OW. She did community service. LilSis also had 2 adorable sons.
Later, on a rare update .... LilSis was in a serious dating relationship. She was happy. I think they married, but I can't quite remember.
Not to mention, the KILLER BEES had humor up the whazoo ... and they put it to good use.
LilSis's ending ... they divorced. Her WH (a cop) married the OW (a waitress with 'high milage' working at the diner where cops hang out) who also divorced her BH (a lawyer). LilSis was arrested for beating up OW. She did community service. LilSis also had 2 adorable sons.
Later, on a rare update .... LilSis was in a serious dating relationship. She was happy. I think they married, but I can't quite remember.
LilSis was GREAT, and we miss her.
I would think beating up the high mileage OW WAS a community service.
Not to mention, the KILLER BEES had humor up the whazoo ... and they put it to good use.
LilSis's ending ... they divorced. Her WH (a cop) married the OW (a waitress with 'high milage' working at the diner where cops hang out) who also divorced her BH (a lawyer). LilSis was arrested for beating up OW. She did community service. LilSis also had 2 adorable sons.
Later, on a rare update .... LilSis was in a serious dating relationship. She was happy. I think they married, but I can't quite remember.
LilSis was GREAT, and we miss her.
I would think beating up the high mileage OW WAS a community service.
Sometimes when I read about a BS who constantly "keeps checking up" on WS and AP, I think they are masochists!
..ahem!.. I will not name names (on other threads).
It is so very painful to see. I think WHY is this person torturing themselves? Every occurance takes them back to square one.
They swear off, and two days later there is "another stunt". whoops... this is another one for the "new rant".
lol! Doing it MUCH less these days, barely at all.
Ah new-petals, I have done this too. I think we can't believe its true, and its truly sad. We were allways battling the drug issue and in that I knew exactly what to expect, also I didn't take it as hard, although it WAS definatly hard and painful. It didn't hurt as bad.
I am sure it had to do with unrealistic expectations that I put on myself. I thought I was important to her because I could keep her grounded and although I never expected her to live in total appreciatition of that. I expected her to eventually deal with her addictions and emotional issues. Then she could live in the real world with the rest of us, then we could really work on us.
The point is that waywards have problems we were never intended to fix for them, in areas many times they are not honest with themselves about to begin with, and thier running away and blaming us only makes it worse for them. The affair partner enables them, and they call it love when it really is pacification. God willing they will learn and pull out of it and grow up, and its not our fault when we can't or wont participate in something childish and destructive. There comes a point where reguardless of how much faith and strength you have you MUST separate from them emotionally and maybe even physically to protect your soul, mind, and body.
I think of the serenity prayer,
God give me the strength to change the things I can,
The serenity to accept the things I cannot,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Being a "fixer" and "caretaker" with a stubborn attitude that ANYBODY can change, It took more application of reality than most to cause the pain that gave me wisdom.
But God has spanked me and put me in my place, finnally took the situation out of my hands with all the highs and lows of the marriage relationship, and my children, who have suffered greatly, are slowly realizing what happened. They will see things when they do, and although we remember Mom for the good things she was at one time. I am around to help them quell the fear that might rise up and lead to despondancy and shame. Because now they are grown-ups and must deal with truth, even when it hurts, and are accountable to that.
Ah we all can fall, but we all can pick ourselves up again, and when someone bonded to us falls and we can't help them its painful and frustrating. Truth is its not all our fault.
Plan B is mainly for personal recovery, because if followed it will accomplish that NO MATTER WHAT.
It is also the VERY BEST chance for a M broken by an entrenched A, and many times will pave the way to R. That is a happy bonus, and also a really big plus to protecting a BS from the continuing abuse of an A.
I've known Mr. W a long time now, and I don't think he would intentionally convey that Plan B = giving up on the M and only going forward with personal R instead. Maybe he will see this and elaborate so I don't have to put words in his mouth.
Neak, I really didn't think that was what was intended either and I wanted to make sure that there was a GREAT discussion on Plan B so that other people would get the full reasoning behind Plan B. that way they can make their own right decision and understand what it is meant on this site and through DrH. I am CERTAIN that the way it was intended is NOT the way it has spread.
A little timbit(HEHEHEHEH Canadian all the way baby ) that has made my hamster in my head go round and round on his wheel. I need to just throw it out there so I can eject my hammy.
I have noticed something interesting in the last couple of weeks and since I have no one else to share stupid stuff like this with, you guys are the lucky ones. Please, understand that I am NOT analyzing this, it is just a hmmmmmmm kind of thing. No EXPECTATIONS. No hopes.
I started praying ever night and every morning for an angel of protection to protect me, my children and Bampot. A couple of days later, I noticed something weird. Bampot has been more attentive to the kiddos. He has made sure that he calls them every night. He has started writing them longer emails. His phone calls now average 10 minutes instead of 4. Out of the blue, on Thursday afternoon, he tried to call at NOON.
Of course the hamster got the wheel moving and my mind started wondering. BUT, since I am in Plan B, I didn't let it stick too long. It does come back. Of course, the eternal optimist and hopeful part of me thinks, "Maybe there is trouble in affairland." Well, don't worry, I have devil's advocates that take other sides too. I then think, "Maybe Bampot is just easing into his current sitch and getting more comfortable." And the last one, it's a real goody, "WF is pregnant and Bampot is excited about being a daddy again so he is reaching out to his boys."
So there you have it, another great entry in my saga. Where will it take me tomorrow? I can tell you where, to work. HAHAHAHAHA I really hate working on Sundays. Where is that new job? I put it on my vision board. I got the new couch, camera, handycam and roller coaster ride. I am on my way to my weight goal. There are a few things left on there, and MOST of them hang on the new job. Hmmmmmmm maybe this will work, "Come out Come out wherever you are."
Please, don't worry that I am obsessing about the actions of a wayturd, namely, Bampot. I will NEVER understand what he is thinking. Just want it written in black and white, just keeping the whole story, well....whole.
On a higher note, DS10 has started boxing trainer with my trainer too. I told him that we would have to see if we could afford it and that I would ask Bampot(through IMs of course) about sharing the costs. Well, DS10 was too excited and told Bampot about it today. Bampot said he was proud of DS10 and that he would be glad to help out with money for the training. WOW. Who is this man? New Bampot must be happy in affairland. Whatever it is, it seems that my kiddos are benefiting, for now. THAT is all that matters right now.
I am so happy that your WH is being more attentive to your kiddos...isnt it such a load off your back....at least they are getting the attention that they need from their dad.
When you invite God into a situation like that, He always answers.
And since His answers can show a measurably good response, a measurably bad response, or no detectable response at all, it's impossible to interpret so get rid of the hammy. Just know that God is very busy and hard at work on your behalf while you are attending to your sphere of influence.
That's why I had to write it. I had to eject that hammy right outta my pea brain( hehehehe).
I had a laff too, noticing that Bampot asks about me more often. Oh well, I am a GODDESS and I need to act like one.
Did anyone see that dream job fairy? I keep missing her. Hmmmmm, she's gotta be around here somewhere. I better keep looking.(see I really AM trying to kick that hammy off the wheel, I don't need this right now. HEHEHE)
It is actually from one of my IMs. I don't actually KNOW how young she is, somewhere around 60 I gather, but she says that she is, "29 and a few hundred months."
When you invite God into a situation like that, He always answers.
And since His answers can show a measurably good response, a measurably bad response, or no detectable response at all, it's impossible to interpret so get rid of the hammy. Just know that God is very busy and hard at work on your behalf while you are attending to your sphere of influence.
Masterfully said Neak, Gotta promote you to Zen Master.
It is one thing that helps us keep some love deposits in the ole love bank account of theirs
even if a hamster wheel turns when they do it!
Sigh
What an insightful post! Scotty, I read along your thread and a few others like NP but have not been up to posting lately. Please know you are in my prayers and that I think very highly of you. I am always amazed at the deep feelings of care and friendship that develop on these boards. I have been blessed to meet some in person, like pep. I can tell you that meeting these wonderful MB peeps in person just deepens those feelings.
Are you putting looneys in the jar when you have those hamster moments?
Nope, I have to admit. the looney jar had taken a hiatus. I have been totally outta schedule with the kids not in school. I am trying to get my hammy moving. Should I give him a plan B letter too HAHAHAHAHA?
Reading, I am on the same wave length here. I TOTALLY felt the LB$ rise. I got SCARED. I am supposed to be LOSING my love for Bampot in case he never comes home(which MANY days I BELIEVE). I don't know what effect I am having on Bampot's LB balance and I don't want to. I DO know what is happening to mine though, and me no likey. Hmmmmm. Stinking wayturds.
Hey, I haven't said it in a while, WAYTURDS SUCK AZZZZZZZ.
Now, I don't know how it is that I would NOT deposit in or accept deposits form Bampot. I am in Plan B here people. How do I do this? Obviously FC is a HUGE EN for me. Now that Bampot is doing this, it is giving me little blips in my LB. ARGH. Aren't I supposed to be going down, not up?
I was driving home from work today and of course, the hammy, being released from my work cage, got racing on the Bampot issue. I am CERTAIN. I am FIRM. I WILL ONLY HAVE A SPECTACULAR MARRIAGE USING MB OR I WILL HAVE NO MARRIAGE AT ALL. Feel free to quote me on that whenever I falter(actually I am counting on you all.
You guys/gals have been so GREAT. Thank you ALL. There are so many people who have taken part in this journey and I am grateful for each and every one of you. ALL of your POVs have been helpful.
Thanx SSO/CP. I knew I could count on someone. Just need you guys around if I ever drink from the koolaid and am willing to accept less. I don't want all of the suffering I have gone through and all of the work I put in to be for not. Besides, you guys have put a lot of work into me too.
Scotty, keep up the great plan B. As I have said before, I don't know what the future holds - whether it is recovery or something new way down the road. But I do know that whatever happens I will apply MB principles no matter what.
Now here is the job fairy flitting through and sending you career mojo
Just wanted to let you guys in on more of my Plan Bness.
Tuesday, my friends and I took our kids to the gorge and walked down the stairs to the whirlpool. I got some AWESOME pics that I will link to once I get it on photobucket. Then, we spent the evening at my friend's house for a BBQ over a firepit(my friend was out of propane). DS10 slept over. Wednesday, we spent the day and evening at my other friend's house. Then, today, my parents and I went to see Le Grande Cirque. It was AWESOME. I had a BLAST and I was laughing the whole time.
I thought about Bampot a few times, but I thought about all of you too. I thought about how I would have loved to share the experience with Bampot and how we were supposed to do something similar before. Well, I have even planned on doing a girl's night out on my anniversary. I figure I might as well be doing something FUN that day. It is going to be a hard day for me. Only, 1 month away.
I realized last night, that it has been 8 months since Bampot left. UNREAL. That's what it feels like to me. I just can't even believe that this has happened let alone how long it has been. I am still getting through. I did have a cry this morning. Got over it pretty quickly though. Thanx guys for caring. You people are so awesome.
Just wanted to let you guys in on more of my Plan Bness.
Tuesday, my friends and I took our kids to the gorge and walked down the stairs to the whirlpool. I got some AWESOME pics that I will link to once I get it on photobucket. Then, we spent the evening at my friend's house for a BBQ over a firepit(my friend was out of propane). DS10 slept over. Wednesday, we spent the day and evening at my other friend's house. Then, today, my parents and I went to see Le Grande Cirque. It was AWESOME. I had a BLAST and I was laughing the whole time.
I thought about Bampot a few times, but I thought about all of you too. I thought about how I would have loved to share the experience with Bampot and how we were supposed to do something similar before. Well, I have even planned on doing a girl's night out on my anniversary. I figure I might as well be doing something FUN that day. It is going to be a hard day for me. Only, 1 month away.
I realized last night, that it has been 8 months since Bampot left. UNREAL. That's what it feels like to me. I just can't even believe that this has happened let alone how long it has been. I am still getting through. I did have a cry this morning. Got over it pretty quickly though. Thanx guys for caring. You people are so awesome.
(((Scotty))))) You are the best PB'er in the history of PB.
((((Scotty)))) You are such a pillar of strength for Plan Bers! Every time I think of WH and want to contact him, I think of you, and how your Plan B is doing so much for you. I hope I can be as strong as you someday! Way to go!
I often think about Bampot. I think about him multiple times a day. I used to want to call him. There are times I even seriously think about it. Like when I was reading the DiD thread. I thought, "If Bampot thought that I needed him, would he come and rescue me?" Then I make that thought go away because it would do me no good.
I think a lot of my "strength" has come about because of where I was before I found MB. I had been dealing with this in some way or another for 2 years. I felt lost, hopeless and completely depressed. I had googled things before. MANY TIMES BEFORE and I found NOTHING of any use. I read about the 180, I even read about how it is better to play hard to get and make him chase me. I didn't want to play those games. My vision of the future following those plans were that I would have to play those games forever. I also would never be able to live with myself. I would feel like a liar, and that would not sit well with me. Besides, they didn't offer any way to move forward and recover so it would never happen again. I don't think I could live through it again(or Bampot for that matter ).
That fateful day, when I googled, "How to survive your souses affair," MB was the number 1 site. I clicked on it, started reading and was amazed. I felt like something had clicked and the light shone down on me. I felt safe and warm. I KNEW that THIS was the BEST way to try. I was a little resistant at first, I had been drinking from the koolaid for sooooooo long. But the MBers helped me out.
See, while I was typing this, my BIL called. He is married to Bampot's sister. She has been having an affair for 5 years, lives with her AP and has 2 OC. BIL talks to SIL because they share a DD. Anyways, he called to ask me about camping next weekend. Then, he says, "SIL is mad because we are going camping when OCS1's Bday party is that weekend. SIL says that Bampot is going away that weekend, cuz you have the kids camping." I actually started to cry. He said, "I know you don't want to know where he is going." I said, "Actually, it would have been nice to know NOTHING. I can't believe he is going away with HER when he never liked to go away with me." BIL says, "Apparently, he is going with some friends because she is working." I felt a little better, but I don't totally buy it.
Oh well, THESE are the times when I feel SOOOOOOOO weak. The only solace I have is knowing that I am getting better and that I CAN make it one day. I know it isn't a sprint. I KNOW it takes time. Just hate when I get thrown for a loop. ARGH.
Bampot wasn't able to talk to the kids yesterday, since I was out and had the cell phone with me. Today, he talked to DS10 for 2 mintues. Well, I guess good old Bampot has come back. I told my sister that THESE reasons are the best reasons not to talk to Bampot, I MOST DEFINITELY would have called him to say, "WTF? 2 MINUTES in 2 DAYS?"
At moments, hanging in there is all I seem to be doing. It's okay though. Just like my workouts have helped me physically recover when I exercise, Plan B is helping me emotionally recover when I am hit with the big ol' "Wayturds suck azz" stick.
I had a hard day at work yesterday, where I was brought into my manager's office to talk about some work issues, I need to improve my way of talking to supervisors, apparently I seem to come across as disrespectful, and it is NOT my intention at all. Then, I have this hard day. It seems to be like this.
It is funny too. I am reading the thread by Universe and I am seeing A LOT of myself in that. I am learning a lot about who I was and who I don't want to be.
This growing up gig isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Improving everyday.
Hope you guys don't mind that I use this as a sort of blog. It is very helpful.
... I thought, "If Bampot thought that I needed him, would he come and rescue me?" Then I make that thought go away because it would do me no good.
I think a lot of my "strength" has come about because of where I was before I found MB. I had been dealing with this in some way or another for 2 years. I felt lost, hopeless and completely depressed. I had googled things before. MANY TIMES BEFORE and I found NOTHING of any use. I read about the 180, I even read about how it is better to play hard to get and make him chase me. I didn't want to play those games. My vision of the future following those plans were that I would have to play those games forever. I also would never be able to live with myself. I would feel like a liar, and that would not sit well with me. Besides, they didn't offer any way to move forward and recover so it would never happen again. I don't think I could live through it again(or Bampot for that matter )....
I remember scotty doin a google search with the same kind of emptiness and despair, When I found MB, and saw they taught how to have the marraige I almost had, and the only kind I would want. I knew this was the place to heal.
That 180 thing, from what you describe I have turned this over and over in my head over the years. Sometimes I wonder if I left W whenever she messed up and caused constant drama for the kids, and fed into Ws drama also maybe she would have not passed away. But it would have meant so much tragic and confusing damage for my children,and it wasn't how I was made, I am not "The end justifies the means" Machevelli type. But as you know, no matter how right you act, you sometimes suffer the pain for it when your dealing with foggy people. In the end I had to stand for what was right, even as the kids got older an it escalated to the point of where it wouldn't really screw them up. They needed an example, like your kids, of how to not be crazy and how to be strong in your convictions.
W would have felt at home with all the drama, played it out to the bitter end, and it would be dishonest if I played her game she was living in her confused and troubled mind. It would have destroyed her just the same way. I know that now.
I know its not the same sitch with you, but you are being strong in your determination to live with guts.
Sent a message through IMs yesterday about the boxing training and the costs associated. Also, a couple of things in regards to the visitation schedule. Received a response back asking some questions and not agreeing to one exception for the visitation. I sent a message saying that the visit on Halloween would be missed. Bampot sent back that he would still pick up the children on Halloween, but that it would be from 9am-4pm so they would still have time to go out after. I agreed to that condition. Now, I will have MORE time to get dressed in my own costume. Hmmmm, what will I be? HEHEHEHEHE. I answered his questions about the boxing as they seemed okay enough.
I am taking the kiddos camping this weekend from Thursday night until Monday morning. It should be a lot of fun. The kids are really looking forward to it. I am glad that my BIL is coming because I don't know how to put up the tent.
Took the boys to see Vampires Suck today. It was pretty funny. The kids really enjoyed it. It's just like any other spoof movie.
Still missing Bampot every day but it gets less painful. I am still cringing when people call him, "Your EX." I don't correct them any more though. Had another dream about him. In this one, we were about to have SF and I told him that I would only do it if he agreed to MB coaching and he said, "I thought you understood what this was. It's just SF. I am NOT ready for the other stuff yet." I woke up a little upset, but I would have to agree with my brain. He isn't ready to give up what he has now, and I don't know that he will ever be. Just living life and trying to get better at it. It is funny how things seem to slide into place sometimes.
Still praying for those angels and soldiers to pass on those messages. Take care everyone.
Oh Scotty, have fun camping!! I am praying too but remember that Bampot has to be OPEN to the message from the messenger. Pray for a soft heart for God. That was my biggest prayer for my H and you know what brought him out of the A? Yes, God did.
Not only do I pray for angels and soldiers to fight against the affair, I also pray that Bampot and WF feel the full consequences of their actions. That they can see the way out of their current sitch and back into the light. I pray for protection to surround the boys, Bampot and I. I also give thanx for the strength that I have shown so far and ask for continued strength.
I do this when I wake up and before I fall asleep.
I am still seeing the change in Bampot in regards to the DSx2. He purchased the items I asked him to, and even added a few extra things. He makes sure he calls them every day, emails them when he is unable to. I am happy about it. I don't know what things are talked about, I don't make it my point to ask. I am staying out of their relationship as much as possible. It's not up to me anymore.
Had another dream about him. In this one, we were about to have SF and I told him that I would only do it if he agreed to MB coaching and he said, "I thought you understood what this was. It's just SF. I am NOT ready for the other stuff yet." I woke up a little upset,
It is amazing the arguments we have with our own subconcious>sp?
Had another dream about him. In this one, we were about to have SF and I told him that I would only do it if he agreed to MB coaching and he said, "I thought you understood what this was. It's just SF. I am NOT ready for the other stuff yet." I woke up a little upset,
It is amazing the arguments we have withour own subconcious>sp?
I know, it is crazy. It always amazes me how I am so certain in my dreams about the things I want in my waking life. While Bampot was with me, I would have a dream where I was kissing someone else. I would stop and say, "I can't. I am married." then I would wake up. Now, I only have SF with Bampot still but I get mad at myself for breaking Plan B. I wake up and laugh at myself. Can't even let go in a dream.
"I thought you understood what this was. It's just SF. I am NOT ready for the other stuff yet." ...
The "other stuff", well thats foggy isn't it? Three pats on the back to Scottys dream police. What other stuff is more important? Without the "other stuff" sex is empty, meaningless, selfish, tense, worrisome, guilt-filled....oh wait.. we were talking about people there right?
Let me go back and tell it from waywards views. "grunt grunt, you think of me as perfect but don't know me at all and I like it that way, lets stay blind, its so much more fun isn't it? Sure is easier than reality or humility. When I was married things didn't all go my way and I had nobody to blame but myself. Now that i have run away, I can blame my BS and you can join in. "
Such is the wisdom of a dark plan B. They can't blame you anymore, or the things they blame you for become worn out and they are even revealed as petty examined long enough. As your dream points out, he is not ready to handle that other "stuff". That stuff he should have handeled for his own good instead of running away from it, that stuff he will have to handle before he grows up. Sorry Scotty he may be a better man than most in other things, but God wants him to be more of a man in his accountability to you, which represents his ability to have a "real" relationship. With God also, probably first, but if he hurts you, he hurts God, and himself in the process.
Let him live in fairy-tale land. God has no intention of forcing him home. He wants him to see what he has done, that he has made a mistake, sex has very little to do with that. Sex should build us up in what we have that are more important. intimacy, trust, joint vision, integrity and honor for the most important things that we can have for one another. How long will people put the cart before the horse and expect sex to fix thier broken empty hearts, or use it as a drug in denial and call it a relationship? God knows the difference as so don't you and I and many.
Plan B can remove that blindspot along with all the other ones that waywards use to justify thier running away. We let them stew in thier lies they beleive and pray God will be let in to reveal the way. God doesn't force us to straighten out, the consequences of our actions bring us to the light, if we are humble enough to see that we are wrong, and man, (=humble) enough to admit it. But God is gentle and loving, not a taskmaster forcing us with trickery and deciet. He tells us like it is and lets us reap what we sow.
Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight.�
He doesn't like it when his children abuse each other and the humble and teachable who come to Him for guidance he will comfort when they stand before him and ask for it. How and why does he choose thier delusions? He is the author and finisher of our faith, and everything that it encompasses. Do we really doubt that he will give us the freedom of choice or the ability to see we have brought about our own heartaches through OUR decisions? When we mix that freedom with lies and hurting others and expect it be blessed spiritually we are only fooling ourselves, God does not approve.
I like your prayers, they are right on. I hope the angels of Gods army get in and do some work on Bampot so he can have a chance to be the man we all know he can be for you and the children. What a magnificent example of humility and love it would be for them. God will bless that, untill that happens you are in the best place you could be. Away from the pain and preserving the good things you saw before he went wayward, along with learning about how precious you are and how to further protect yourself and your kiddos.
Got those pics loaded. Here is my great gorge adventure. This is the Whirlpool. The Niagara River actually makes a turn after the first set of rapids. There is a Whirlpool with a Spanish Aerocar that is suspended above it(also happens to be where Bampot and I shared our first kiss).
You need to walk down a set of wooden stairs that are affectionately called "Cinderella Stairs." It took me about 20 mins to walk down and 25 mins to walk up. It was really worth it though, doncha think?
NP Scot, I am afraid to ask, hows it going with the rest of the family foggy in "affairland"?
Still foggy.
I am not exactly plan Bing my brother, but he has decided to stay clear of me too. Glad about that. My Mom feels like she is in the middle. I told her that she planted herself firmly on his side.
She is still foggy. I have only necessary contact with her and when she talks about my Dad or FF(my name for POSOM, think WF with the F word instead), I tell her that I don't wan to hear about it. She brings up FF and she talks about her time that she had spent with him. My stomach just spins thinking about Bampot doing that if he was to come home. I asked her if she talks about FF to my Dad and she said, "No." I don't know if I believe her, but I won't ask my Dad about it. She is still upset that my Dad still says that he is separated. I just tell her to talk to my Dad about it and I can't help her. It's not fun dealing with a wayward. I look at it as practice in patience for Bampot. Maybe, maybe not. It's practice none the less.
I told her that she planted herself firmly on his side.
True that
Originally Posted by Scotland
My stomach just spins thinking about Bampot doing that if he was to come home.
I don't see Bampot doing that, I see him one of us guys who doesn't like admitting he has made a mistake after he made a bunch of excuses in his head why it was right to leave you, thats assuming he really still has a conscience and that it was twisted like most waynurds. Then too somehow promising POSOW he wont leave cuz he thinks could never live down what has happened and he has a chance to have the "perfect" life with her he can keep pulling off the imaginary fairytale of being perfect, which of course she had been, or still is, encouraging him in. Lets hope she believed it instead of her being a lying manipulative cold hearted B$*th. Maybe she will be honest enough somewhere inside to see it wasn't "true love" (again ), instead of a coniving manipulative one who knows how to push his dumb male buttons and keep him to some bad promise. Like Mel says."The only thing worse than not keeping a promise is keeping a bad one" I don't think Bampot knows the difference right now, and his pride.. well we have had that convo..
If he can admit he needs help he understands how he hurt you. I see him as being guilty and quiet if anything, I don't know him, but if you loved him he must have been sensitive to those things at one time and know better than to talk about withdrawl crap. He will have to learn about it of course, but I hope he deals with it like a man who made a mistake and doesn't make you pay for it. In that way pride can work for him, he has a lot to make up for.
Originally Posted by Scotland
She is still upset that my Dad still says that he is separated.
Well at least he knows his wife is not with him emotionally. I wish he got some help with that, but its to close for you to deal with, and parents rarly listen to thier children about those things anyway.
Originally Posted by Scotland
It's not fun dealing with a wayward. I look at it as practice in patience for Bampot. Maybe, maybe not. It's practice none the less.
With all your learning and the humility you have shown mixed with your strong convictions I am sure you have what it takes to recover. What to be patient with and what not, and will be able to be a great help to him as he learns life is not all about him. Just keep punching that punching bag so you don't have to knock any sense into him untill he gets it, if he ever does.
I saw the pics, too, loved the one of the tree silhouette. One of the few advantages of having a waynerd mom at the same time as a waynerd husband, is that you already know that your fog detector is working. It will go off as surely for Bampot's fog as it already does for your mom.
Thanx. I was just playing around with the camera. My friends take even better pictures than I do. They have GREAT cameras and have a real talent for it. I will add them when I get them uploaded.
ok well since you started this new hobby thought maybe you'd like to do something fun with the photo's. Not that you have to just an idea. Some of the above are free some you have to pay for but you can win cash, silly prizes, and sometimes just to have the photo of the month.
Never know you may just grow up to be a photographer!
i don't think photography is going to be more than a hobby for me, but you never know, do you? I have come to realize that when you throw it out there, you get an answer in a way you never imagined. When I made the goal to lose weight, I NEVER thought that I would be joining a boxing club. It works for me though. I am keeping my mind and life open to all of the wonderful possibilities.
Well, I am heading off to work and then camping until Monday morning. Don't miss me too much. I will DEFINITELY miss this place and all of you guys. It's gonna be a hard weekend. We are going to the camp grounds that we used to go to with Bampot. FULL OF TRIGGERS. I will get through though. I will be making memories with the kiddos to last a lifetime. Take care of my other thread for me. I am sure Mark will.
All of you take care, and know that I will be thinking about each and every one of you.
Well, I am back. Glad you all had a good time while I was gone.
Tired and have a lot to do. We had a GREAT time. Went to my nephew's part on Saturday and SIL and MIL were there. It was awkward. The boys had such a good time that they wanted to stay another night. they are currently playing video games. On Saturday night, the campground had Halloween night. The kids got dressed up and went trick or treating. We went swimming in the freezing cold pool. We played a couple of rounds of mini putt. Walked a lot. Got sun burns on our noses. Made lots of new memories.
I would be lying if I said that I didn't owe the pickle jar about 50 bucks. We were in the same camp site where we would camp with Bampot. Bampot was the MASTER at putting away the tent. I missed him most when I saw other couples having fun together and dads playing with their kids. THOSE have to be the hardest things right now.
Well, I am showered, laundry is started and I am going to take a nap. Air mattresses are more comfortable than the ground but nothing compares to my bed.
To all of my friends out there, I thought of you all often and I will be catching up on your threads as soon as I wake up.
I started an online course to become a Teacher's Aide. I learned that in Ontario, to be a teaching assistant in elementary and secondary school, all you need is a HS diploma and a police check. Well, I have those. I want to get some education too. Then I will start looking for a job in a school. This way, I will get the shifts I want, and more importantly, I will be able to make a real difference. It is funny. I have my vision board on my bathroom wall still(had to move it higher because the puppy tried to eat it) and I am AMAZED that the things I put on there are becoming a reality.
Yesterday morning, I woke up at 510am because I "heard" Bampot say, "Are you alright?" It freaked me out. I don't know what I was dreaming but I seriously thought that I heard him. I looked around and there was no one there(of course). It was "weird."
BIL did talk to me more about Bampot on the phone the other night. He said that SIL and SIL's OM told him that Bampot doesn't look happy. I told BIL that it doesn't matter. Bampot isn't at my door asking to come home. He could be unhappy for years and not end his affair. It doesn't matter to me. I KNOW that affairs suck. It doesn't make a difference to the original marriage unless the affair ends FOREVER.
Gotta go workout and then do some of my online homework. I will still be around but not as often as I was before.
The kiddos start school on Tuesday. WOOHOOOO Can't wait.
I'm a long-time lurker, new poster. Your story was the first thread I ever read. It took me a few days, but I read everything you wrote and everything that was written to you. I cried as your story progressed and my heart was filled with amazement and love as I discovered how strong you and so many others are on this website. I have learned an immeasurable amount from you and everyone here. There are no words that do justice for my feelings of gratitude.
I know your saga is ongoing, and there isn't a day that I don't wonder when your WH is going to wake up and realize the mistakes he made are recoverable. When he is going to look at himself and say "I am a shadow of the happy person I was and the only person who truly knows and loves me is Scotty"?
You are a shining example of a success story, regardless of whether or not Bampot ever gets out of the fog. Keep your chin up. There are obviously so many people here that love you and are rooting for you.
Thanx. I am glad that my story ha helped some people. I owe it to this site. I could imagine where I would be without it and I SHUDDER to think about the emotional toll it would have taken.
I have grown so much and changed to the point where MB is almost second nature to me. I still have a lot to learn. I enjoy coming here and trying to help others. It has always been said that the best way to learn something is to teach it.
I hope that others can learn what they can and then pay it forward by helping others.
The best way to learn about MB is to read all of the site and books. Call the coaching center if you can(remember how much you paid for your wedding day, 200 bucks an hour is a drop in the bucket for a spectacular marriage). Post to get some individual help with your own sitch. Read other people's threads. Help out when you can(as long as it is within MB concepts or to offer encouraging words). This place is a true blessing. I am eternally grateful to all.
So as not to take away from any other thread, I will post here.
I am celebrating tonight having survived my first summer vaca as a single mother. It wasn't so bad. The only time I was away from the boys was when I was working or working out(today's workout was a KILLER BTW). Glad that I got to spend so much time with them but I NEED A NAP.
Some more interesting huh kind of thing to mention. I can NEVER figure out a wayward and I am not attempting to with Bampot. DSx2 came home from their visit with Bampot on Saturday and they had a bag with 2 jugs of juice and a bag of veggie chips. They said that Bampot gave them to them because he knows they like them and he got them at Costco which he knows I can't get to because I don't have a car(I still go, I DO have FRIENDS who have cars). Then they come home from their visit yesterday and they say they are hungry. They are ALWAYS hungry when they come home from visits with their Dad. I ask, "What did you have for dinner." DS10 says, "Shrek soup(it's the pasta but DS10 calls is soup). Daddy has no money so he has no food." I ask, "You still don't get snacks there?" He says, "No. Daddy tells us no." I ask, "Does OWDD11 eat snacks?" DS10 says, "I don't know, probably." So I ask, "Does OWDD11 go into the fridge or cupboard and just take something out?" DS10, "I don't know. But we can't because Daddy buys our food and his." I just say, "Well, you should just tell Daddy that you need some snacks." DS10 says, "We already did."
I know my kids aren't going to starve. I am not concerned about that. Did find it interesting though. This could go on for YEARS. Bampot really is somewhat of a turd right now and he is NOTHING like the man I married and fell in love with. Wish I could have found this place sooner. Probably wouldn't have listened as well then though.
Just keeping my thread up to date. Who knows what someone will learn in the future(or now for the lurkers out there).
WOOOOHOOOOOO BACK TO SCHOOL. We have the Mommy plans already. We are going to go walking around the track, and then when the crepe place opens at 11 we will eat crepes. I am going to have the ones called the Niagara Falls crepes. They are so GOOOOOOD. Been looking forward to them for a week since we made the plans.
Something else I also found interesting was how much has changed in my life and house since Bampot left. I am amazed at all of the changes for the better have been made. Speaking of things changing, I am going to have to get my butt in gear with the home study program I started. Just gotta make sure I stay off of here during study time. It's gonna be hard but I CAN do it.
Teacher's Aide. I found out that in Ontario though, all you need to be a Teacher's Aide is a HS diploma and a police check. I have both of those. I am just trying to make myself better and give myself a better chance. I noticed the other day that the vision board I made for myself is helping. I made it about a year ago and I put the things on it that I wanted by 2014. It was after the ILYBNILWY speech but before I knew about MB. I have achieved some of the things on the board and others are in progress. It is AMAZING what the power of positive thinking can do.
Feeling quite good today. That usually scares me because it usually means something not so great will happen. Well, I am going to enjoy it while I can.
Bampot doesn't give the boys snacks at her house (I will NOT call it "their" or "his" house...sorry, but I love ya too much Scotty to put that kind of label on it..... ).
That's exactly what I thought. I even said to DS10, "Daddy should have kept the veggie chips over there so you could have them there."
I have a hard time calling it his place. The kids do though. I don't know what to call Bampot either. I still call him my husband. Other people call him my Ex and I don't cringe anymore but I can't bring myself to say it. I actually told my personal trainer this, when he asked me if I was getting married, "I am married, my husband is just temporarily with someone else." I said it with a smile and the PT said, "I like your style B." It's my way of dealing with things. It's working for me right now and I always say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
You have come so far in such a short amount of time! You never cease to amaze me with your sense of humor, resiliance and determination. Sounds like OW is just a selfish biatch that is not willing to share "her money" with your boys. In my opinion all those things are GOOD even though it temporarily makes things more uncomfortable for your boys. I like that he sent snacks home with them. It shows, to me, that he wants to be a good dad but he still can't quite untangle himself from her web. He may never find that inner strength and I know you know that. If he doesn't, to me, that means he never really was the man you thought he was. Only time will tell.
There is no way around it. When school age children visit their wayward parent in the adultery-shack ... the betrayed parent is going to get those "screen shots" whether they want to, or not. A little port-hole view into crazy-land, where red is blue, and green is orange.
I don't know how you do it Scotty. I might have committed a criminal battery assault by this time.
It seems to me, from my view as an outsider, that OW is play acting being nice to your boys. I don't think she likes them.
I think your boys need some new hobbies to share with their dad at hotel adultery. Like a toad collection. A thousand leggos. A drum and a guitar.
Teach them to sing "99 bottles of beer on the wall" ...
Oh Pep, once again your evil genius shines through. I know that WF doesn't care for my boys. They, thankfully, don't have much to do with her anyways. They really only see her every other Saturday and for a couple of hours on Sunday(still too much for me, but I can't change it). I am GLAD I have Plan B guarding me, and Bampot should be thankful for it too because the AOs and SDs and DJs that would come out of me would be HORRIBLE. I often say to people, "I can be your best friend, or your worst enemy. It's YOUR choice."
I KNOW that my REAL husband is a different man than Bampot is. He changed and NOT for the better. He has thankfully started to be a better dad to DSx2, although it is no where near what they deserve. There is a lot at play here and I don't have enough time or energy to worry about the "lurv-shack" I am focusing on moving forward a baby step at a time and making myself better.
I don't have many friends because I choose only to keep quality people. I am a very nice person and am very approachable. I can make friends easily. I am very loyal BUT I can hold a grudge. If you hurt my family, it's WORSE than anything you could have done to me. I only want people around me that make my life better. I don't have time for people who want to drag me down. Bampot used to be that person. We were GREAT together and everyone said that. He really brought out the best in me, until a few years ago. I didn't like who I had become. I am eternally grateful to MB and all of you because I have started to become who I want to be. Someone I can be PROUD of. And, it has NOTHING to do with Bampot. I need to keep improving and I am fortunate to have friends and you, that keep me moving forward. Thanx.
Thanx Dealan, and I do think of many of the posters on here as those quality type people that I keep around in my life because they make me better. It's a big ol' MB lovefest today.
Made it through day 1 of school and DS7 didn't get in trouble or sent to the principal's office. One day at a time.
Jelly Belly BeanBoozled jelly beans. Weird and nasty flavors mixed with regular ones. Makes a great game!
BeanBoozled jelly beans come in 20 flavors, 10 weird and wild flavors matched up with 10 look-alike tasty flavors. Is the black jelly bean Licorice, or is it Skunk Spray? Perhaps the blue bean is Toothpaste flavor, or maybe it�s delicious Berry Blue. Think you can tell them apart? We dare you! You might not know when you will be bamboozled by a weird flavor. A key on the back of each box gives clues to the surprises found inside, but the beans look so similar, every bite will be a surprising dare.
The bagpipes are SO cute. Maybe I should get one for the Dervish for Christmas, now that Mr. C is learning the trombone and Twitty Twinseth is learning flute. What a happy-sounding place your house would be. How much your neighbors would envy you such talented children. If they try to come to MY house though, I'm getting a bazooka! And those jelly beans sound disgusting!
Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge the somber anniversary from 9 years ago. Thank you to all of the people who put their lives in danger for the safety of others. It may have happened on American soil but it affected the WORLD.
TNL, You SO should buy those bagpipes for Dervish.
Love the evil genius club suggestions. I just tell DSx2 to be THEMSELVES, warts and ALL when they go visit Daddy. What judge would have a problem with me telling the kiddos to be themselves? HEHEHEHEHE. They are past due learning the 99 bottles of beer song though.
Had another dream about Bampot. We were back together and we were talking in the living room. He said, "Should we be doing this?" I said, "Of course we should, this is what a marriage is about." We pecked on the lips and I woke up. W-E-I-R-D.
There are times when I see couples around and I miss being a couple. I "had" someone for 18 years(well sort of for the last 2). I get jealous when I see couples walking around with their children. I envy couples walking around holding hands. I get uncomfortable seeing other couples kiss. It makes me sad. Then, I remember that I DID have some good years. I did have a good life. I have my wonderful children and I WILL be GREAT. There is a plan for me, I just don't know where I am headed yet.
I had another thought. The fact that OW doesn't like my children(you guys called that DAY 1 on November 28th last year) gives me even better reason NOT to get involved with someone else(don't worry, I mean AFTER a D). I wouldn't want someone else in their lives who might not like them. Believe me, if I did meet a man and he didn't like my children, I would kick him to the curb. Bampot used to say that too. Guess that just gets piled on with the rest of the crap he spewed before. ARGH.
Okay, I am over it. One moment at a time, one day at a time, one life at a time.
>TNL, You SO should buy those bagpipes for Dervish.
That's just evil.
Scooter has taken up the clarinet. Dulcet tones, my a$$.
TG I own earplugs. I bought them for the range..but hey...whatever works. Tis very tempting that the earplugs are kept in the lockbox with the weapon, tho. I keep envisioning a graveside scene and a very small, skinny coffin. Everyone is secretly smiling and Scooter is in tears. Notibly absent is mom, who has been locked in the nuthatch for killing a musical instrument.
Get elder DS a clarinet. Then tell him he plays better that Squidward and tell him to show Daddy...show Daddy A LOT!
Thanx for the bagpipe jokes Neak. I was laffing my butt off.
I woke up at 2 am last night and I realized that Bampot may have been an OM about 14 years ago for an online long distance EA. We were on a chatline and he was "friends" with this married woman who was having problems in her marriage. Her WH had an affair with her bestfriend and they lived with the couple. She needed help and Bampot was there for her I was so angry about this "friendship" and we used to argue about it. It only stopped after I told him that she liked him more than friends. A few months before we were married she actually admitted to me that she was going to steal him from me. He stopped talking to her after he saw that chat log.
Thing is, I should have realized then that he had weak boundaries around women. I am so thankful for marriage builders. Maybe my story can help other people too.
What a difference a minute can make. I saw a message from my IM on my FB and it said, "Call me ASAP, it's important!" It was from 12pm. I try to call and there is no answer. Now I am sitting here trying to figure out what it is and everything is running through my head and it is probably not even one of them. I go through the all of the things it COULD be. 1 Bampot wants to come home(HAHAHAHAHA SO UNLIKELY) 2. IM found out OW is pregnant and thought I should know(I HOPE NOT). 3 Something is wrong with a family member and it is important. ARGH. I HATE it when people do this to me.
I remember the way that I found out that my grandmother passed away. Her husband called my parent's house, where I was waiting for a delivery. I didn't answer the phone. he left a message. It said, "Just wanted to let you know that your mom died today." Then I had to call my mom and tell her and we had to find my Dad. I used to say THAT was a horrible way to find out. But this whole, "I have something to talk to you about...." and then leaving me hanging is killing me. I am going to try to calm down and brace for all of the possibilities. I know I have support no matter what it is.
My regular IM's GF broke her hip yesterday morning and she is in the hospital for surgery right now. It was one of the things on my list. She should be okay. She is going to have to go through extensive physical therapy. I am going to go visit her tomorrow in the hospital. Good to know what it was finally. It was a hard 2.5 hours. I really hate when people do that to me.
NP Mymissy. And occupational therapy. When we haven't gone through things like this ourselves, sometimes it is hard to know exactly what will happen and who all of the people are.
I hate moments like those. When your heart falls to the pit of your stomach and your blood rushes with adrenaline........good to hear it wasn't horrible, though I'm sorry for your IM's ordeal........
Thanx Not. To be honest, since it was my IMs, my first thought was that something had happened to Bampot. Then I thought that it was something to do with IMs. Email IM was playing games on FB and since the regular IM is her brother, I was pretty certain that she wouldn't be playing games while she was grieving. Then my mind went to what it could be. The thought that it could be Bampot wanting to come home was the one that I figured was furthest away from reality. Then, I was CERTAIN that somehow the IMs had found out that OW was pregnant and they wanted to "warn" me. I was actually getting myself "okay" with that outcome. Thinking about that now still makes my stomach turn. I was actually relieved that it was what it was.
Today, after I dropped the kiddos off at school, I went to visit my friend in the hospital. I got the room number from the first IM. I walked into the hospital, up the stairs and looked for the room. I found the room but they were changing the bedding for the other lady in the room and the curtain was still around my friend's bed. I decided I would go back to the front door and sit on a bench waiting for a few minutes until my friend was ready for a visitor. I was sitting there when I saw a young man go to the information desk. I watched him ask the info lady(I don't know what made me watch him). Then I heard him ask for my friend's room number. They said that they didn't have anyone by that name. I walked up to him and said, "Excuse me, are you IMs son?" He said, "Yes." I said, "I am Scotty, I am sure your mom has talked about me." He said, "yes, she did. Do you know where she is?" I walked with him up to her room and as we walked in I said, "Look who I found." She was so happy. I even brought her some crossword puzzles books, sudoku, and a My Little Pony colouring book(she is in her 60s so I figured she would get a good laugh). She did have a good laugh. I think I am going to bring her a tiara and some mardi gras beads next time.
So glad your friend is going to be Ok, phone calls like that are no fun. Will probably need some assistance after the hospital stay as well, depending on the repair. Your a good friend to have Scotty, make sure you encourage them to keep up with their therapy to get home sooner.
Well, just a minor update. My brother's birthday was on Wednesday. This is the first of his birthdays in 32 years that I have not been there for. I am in a semi Plan B. There was no formal letter or anything like that, I just keep my distance. If I see him, I avoid him. I don't make eye contact and I won't talk to him. My sister called me that day and asked me if I needed a ride to my parent's house for the party. I said, "Nope. You remember the last time we were in the same room." She said, "Oh yea, nevermind. DS10 did mention that you weren't going to be coming." She was watching my kids for me, so they went to the party.
Now, an "ARGH Bampot drives me nutty moment." Yesterday, I had to work and then the kiddos had an open house at their school. We didn't get home until almost 7pm. I listened to the answering machine and it said, "Hi this message is for Bampot. This is Joe, from pool league. Just wanted to let you know....." That's when I stopped listening. Why did this drive me nutty? It is because Bampot gave out my home number as HIS home phone number. What a turd. I am NOT passing on the message. He doesn't live here. It's just like the times I get messages for other people who don't live here, delete, delete, delete. There, I am done with that now.
My mom told me that I should have told DSx2 to tell Bampot. I said, "Uh, NO. Bampot hasn't lived there for 9 months(TODAY ) so why would I even acknowledge it. He can get his messages another way. I am NOT his secretary."
My anniversary is on Monday. I am a little saddened by that. I will get through though. I feel stronger and stronger(as well as happier) every day.
My mom told me that I should have told DSx2 to tell Bampot. I said, "Uh, NO. Bampot hasn't lived there for 9 months(TODAY ) so why would I even acknowledge it. He can get his messages another way. I am NOT his secretary."
My anniversary is on Monday. I am a little saddened by that. I will get through though. I feel stronger and stronger(as well as happier) every day.
Maybe your WH will do like my XH and wish you a 'Happy Anniversary!!!'
I doubt it but who knows. HAHAHAHA. I am going out with some girlfriends to watch a show called, "Spirit of the dance" at the casino. My mom got free tickets. I figured I may as well celebrate MY special day, even if turdman isn't around. I am full of pizz and vinegar today for some reason. I apologixe in advance for any weirdo posts today.
So, the boys and I were playing a board game(Clue carnival) and they say, "Oh BTW mommy, daddy wants us to sleep over there next time. In 2 weeks." I say, "he needs to get a message to the IMs not tell me through you two." They say, "Yea, he is going to(thanx for the head's up boys )." I ask, "What do you want to do? Do you want to sleep at OW's house?" They say, "Yea, we will sleep with Daddy in the spare room(you remember the one Bampot was supposed to be staying in LOL) on an air mattress." I knew this would come up soon.
On one hand, I don't want my kiddos to see OW any more than they have to already. On another hand, I want OW to see more of my kiddos(purely out of a frustration thing). Next, I DO want my kiddos to have more time with Bampot. They said that they are only talking about that ONE weekend for now. I think I am going to let them go. I believe that Bampot is going to want me to send clothes, etc. I will NOT. This isn't just some sleepover, this is their father taking them overnight. He should have some clothes there for them anyways. I am going to figure out all of the angles before the time comes so I will be prepared.
BTW, I haven't had a "My kids say the darndest things" in awhile. The kiddos came home and were starving. I asked them what they had for dinner. They say, "Daddy cooked us pizza." I say, "Daddy takes good care of you, eh?" DS10 says, "He would take better care of me if he came home." "Absolutely."
I doubt it but who knows. HAHAHAHA. I am going out with some girlfriends to watch a show called, "Spirit of the dance" at the casino. My mom got free tickets. I figured I may as well celebrate MY special day, even if turdman isn't around.
Just ANOTHER shining EXAMPLE of how to handle Plan B......
Well, I made it through today better than I thought I ever would. It is good to know that I have the best support system around. Thank you.
The show was AMAZING. I tried very hard NOT to talk about Bampot. I only thought about him a few times while we were out. Had to get home to get the kiddos to bed as they were at my Mom's house.
Its not so bad being alone without the drama is it Scotty? There are even times when everything seems alright too huh?
I know it is dif because with you the withdrawl is from him going into an affair and you still can recover, so love is possible again and that means the constant question. Its tougher going that way too, and then there are the kiddos.
My point is you have friends that you can spend time with and that goes a long way towards healing. They challange you and show you at the same time that you can still trust some of your heart to someone. What is better in life? To have real freinds or those who use you? Our best freind spouses who lose thier mind and way of course will be what really we want to restore and other friends are not the same, but at least we are not so lonely as they share our pain. Instead of dening we have it or a right to have it.
I know and you do too that my sitch got to a very unhealthy point and it was good that the relationship ended because it was destroying the life of everyone in the family. It didn't have to end in the loss of her life. I allways hoped for recovery for her and of course of us, and I held on the best I knew how. But I can't get over, (yet), that if I hadn't crumbled in my own convictions maybe I could have avoided her falling so deep into her despair. Its understandable because I isolated myself and didn't have support but still..understandable is not an excuse to me, so I am still struggling with the guilt of my weakness. It would have been better to me,(although frustrating and lonely as it is, and was in my experience), to be with this women with all her problems as she struggled with blaming me for all of them because I was such a hardass about behaviuor and boundarys.
Its funny how she first loved and felt safe with me because of those and called me her rock, but when my value, which was defined by her own mind, lost its appeal those things were bars that held her back. I regret not holding our relationship to a higher standard and instead waiting for it to develop because. well, everything I did eventually meant nothing. Such as it is if you try to help people avoid the consequences of thier mistakes and especially painful it is personnally to try to take them on yourself. I should have continued making her own her own crap, and calling her on it when she fell short. Many say it was like trying to raise a child for me when I was trying to live in the real world. I guess that is part of the deal when people have affairs and live in escapism. They revert to childish ways.
Its a humbling experience and I have learned now I am not that special that I can't do anything without friends. Anything worthwhile anyway is a waste without relationship to people anyway IMO.
Even in that messed up relationship which I held onto hope and faith it is something I am going thru withdrawl with. Tells you how important personal boundaries are and the need to protect them doesn't it?
I am going back albeit slowly to who I was, a person who likes people and enjoys socializing as I find some value in myself and in life as it pertains to people. Being a person with conviction and guts was who I was and aspired to be. Its not gender specific, but to me it is what a man is, and should be. The withdrawl, from a toxic situation, partially my own fault, is going well because of friends and my belief in Gods love for all of us. As mel pointed out once the symbol on top of the page refers to God and looking up. Reminds me of the trinity. Personnally you just have to follow the principles of MB to have a good marriage and you don't have to study the scriptures to get the benifet but they all come from the same source IMO.
So I went on again, lol well thats me, lots of words. I mainly was supposed to just congtratulate you on your personal recovery and identify with the withdrawl benifets of freinds and time. I am getting there too.
Well, I made it through today better than I thought I ever would. It is good to know that I have the best support system around. Thank you.
The show was AMAZING. I tried very hard NOT to talk about Bampot. I only thought about him a few times while we were out. Had to get home to get the kiddos to bed as they were at my Mom's house.
I saw you popped in, so I wanted to hand ya a hug...Hope all is good for you....and your little one....
Not
t/j over
t/j
thanks not we are doing awesome!!!! she just turned 3 (9/19) can you believe it time sure does fly..
btw back at ya!
end t/j
Scotty i know how you feel my xanniversary you could say was the 9/18th so i totally get how you feel there!!! you did awesome and sounds like you had a blast!! keep up the awesome work
Well, MB friends. I have a problem. On Tuesday, I witnessed, what I, and some of my friends, believe to be the beginning of an affair. It is a couple of parents at the school. Usually, the woman would sit with us and talk. This day, the man and her sat together and then she gave him a ride. I know that I may see affairs where affairs don't happen but my friends also thought something was going on. I need to figure out what to do. I know that both parties are married to other people. Their spouses don't come to the school. I also know that the woman has been feeling neglected. NO EXCUSE. I am just stating that as a possibility for an affair to happen. I am going to try to talk to her today. I was wondering which DrH book you would suggest I suggest for her.
On a side note. I was going up to tuck the kiddos in last night when DS10 comes running down the stairs crying and saying, "I want to call Daddy." I said, "What's wrong?" He was crying so much that he wouldn't even talk. I dialed the number, handed him the phone and waited until Bampot answered. DS10 was crying and he said, "Daddy, I want you to come home." I went upstairs. DS10 came into my room about 20 minutes later. I hugged him and he said he was feeling better. How awful.
I am told by a psychologist friend that here in italy 90% of the people in a M or in a relationship are having an A. D rate here is soaring. Broken families are becoming the norm. I work in a school and see what you described every day, many times over. I think Dr. H would make a fortune in this country also because our D law says that you have to be legally separated 3 years before D is granted. blessing
Do what you can with the possible future waywards but remember "A word to the wise is sufficient" They might not have the wisdom or hear your words until they get some real life 2X4s.
Your boys are preciuos, made me tear up when I read that.
Sending Bampot a cyber kick in the pants here. Its the best I can do.
Try to get to their spouses, too. If their spouses put additional time and effort into the M, it will quickly come to light whether there is an A or not. Either way, the M can benefit.
I dialed the number, handed him the phone and waited until Bampot answered. DS10 was crying and he said, "Daddy, I want you to come home." I went upstairs. DS10 came into my room about 20 minutes later. I hugged him and he said he was feeling better. How awful.
On another note about that woman from the school. She started to hang around with this other couple who we called "dirt." She stopped sitting with us afterschool. Then I noticed that she talks to this guy and today, she said to him, "Wanna go for coffee?" He went, with his 2 year old. I know that the WW(because I am CONVINCED it is at minimum an EA) isn't happy in her marriage and I have heard through the grapevine that the WH's wife has her own affairs(still NO EXCUSE). I was talking to my friends(now I see how others always talk and always know, WOW it's scary), about this and I said that I am going to tell the BH. They were shocked. I told them that I was ANGRY that this person whom I called friend would have an affair with someone and let me find out. ARGH
I am going to try to talk to the WW today afterschool. It is not going to go well at all. I am going to try to give her a bit of reality in her sitch. She is a SAHM. The WH is also a SAHD. Where would they live? Where would their kids go to school? How would they pay for anything? The WH would lose his kids. He is American and if he gets a D now, he would be sent back to the states. She will have a bad reputation. If she does continue this affair, she would need to move and remove her children from this school. She would help blow up 2 families. I am going to make it real to her. I know most of it will not get in yet but she will learn it one day. I will tell her BH, in front of her if I have to and I will try to find the B(W?)W. It sucks being the person with moral high ground.
I was actually asked by one of my friends today if I was the marriage police. I told her that I only was doing what was right. thing is, even before Bampot had his own affair, I still would tell on anyone that I would know was having an affair. It is wrong. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Give me Bampot's phone number, I have some words to say.... I'll blister the skin clean off ... so effin' mad.
BE A DAD BE A FATHER
stupid dumb-donkey
Oh I would most definitely give you his number. I would give it to anyone who asked. You should have heard me yesterday. I actually told my friend that Bampot should be HAPPY that I am in Plan B because the things I wanted to say to him would make his head spin. He is one lucky boy that I found this place. And I always thought that I was the lucky one.
PEP, I am very sorry for your loss. My Dad was a wonderful father, husband and man. We lost him 12 years ago.
I was my father's daughter and then I no longer had my father. He was a humble man who helped people very quietly and without a fuss.
He died on Father's Day. The day of his wake over 400 people attended. The funeral director kept saying who was this guy. Discovered during the wake all the random acts of kindness he did for strangers to friends. Someone was out of work, he bought groceries, helped people find jobs, went to homeless shelters with turkeys and the list goes on.
My Dad was my Hero always. My Dad treated XH as his son and I know he would be crushed knowing what XH did to his family. Makes me mad how it affects the kids. Hugs to you and your family.
end of T/j
Now Scotland, recently I went through the same with a friend from the gym. She was a SAHM at the time and was having A for 7 months. While everyone laughed about it I ripped into her. Gave her books, counseled her, she committed to the M...then a few months went by and she started up again. I told her that I could no longer be friends with her while she continued the A. I just cut her out of my life.
Good luck you are doing the right thing.
As for your son, I had a tear in my eye. I feel for our kids.
Well I only got to talk to my friend for about 15 minutes while we were waiting for our children to get out of school.
I started by saying, "Hello friend. Would you say we are friends?"
She said : Yes Me: would I be a good friend if I watched you do something stupid and didn't tell you?
Her: No. What do you mean?
Me: Come on, we are not stupid. What you are doing with POSOM.
Her: What do you mean?
Me: You are having an affair. I don't know that it is PA yet, but it will be soon.
Her: I love my husband.
Me: I know, that's why I am trying to help you.
Her: It's hard. I am so lonely BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Me: I can help you get pointed in the right direction so you don't have to be lonely. You could feel better WITH your husband. It would be the best thing for you and for your children. I am NOT saying that you need to stay married to husband forever but you can't do THIS.
Her: BLAH BLAH(history rewrite)
Me: it's NO excuse for what you are doing. I have always told my friends that if I found out about an affair I would tell their spouse.
Her: So you are going to tell my husband?
Me: Not today.
Her: I love my husband.
Me: What would you do if the first time you and POSOM had sex, your H and POSOM'W walked in on you two? Where would you live? What would you do? You both don't have a job and you both don't have any money. People always affair DOWN. This POS isn't BETTER, you would be WORSE off and so would your kids. I am NOT doing this for your husband. I am telling this for YOU. I am YOUR friend and I can't stand by and watch you do this. We are all talking about you. This is HORRIBLE. Do you want this kind of rep? Besides what is this teaching your children? Your DD's should go around WH-ing with married men?
Her: H isn't a good dad.
Me: Then you need to be a sane and stable parent and show them right from wrong.
I didn't get to finish, but I said a mouth full. I told her that I am going to print some stuff off for her and see what she thinks. She doesn't get onto the computer very often, so I dunno if I can get her on here. She is an avid reader so I am going to loan her some books. Which one should I get her to read first? I thought SAA. Whatcha think?
You did the right thing Scotty, I am so in awe of you right now....She is complaining about her husband and she feels okay about taking someone elses...I just dont get it Arghhhh!!!
His needs, her needs is a good one too...
T/J PEP, I am so sorry to hear about your father...you are in my thoughts and prayers....
I have to get HNHN back from my bestfriend. I loaned another friend FIL SIL too. What I have in my house right now is LB and SAA. I thought SAA would be a good one until I could get HNHN back from my BF.
Her DD's are having a bday party on Saturday, and I was just informed that POSOM will be there too. Oh, that is NOT a good idea. Why do people do that? ARGH. I can't tell her BH until at least Monday. I told my other friend that I don't even care if she is standing right there. ARGH ARGH ARGH. Doing the right thing sucks sometimes.
Scotland, you did the right thing. I can't tell you all the people that suspected about the A and said nothing to me especially when it was just an EA.
I know her H has a right to know and so does his W. I am going to tell after the weekend. It is such a hard thing to do but it is always the right thing. I am so thankful to the person who called me and told me about my WH's EA with OW almost 3 years ago. I just wish they would have known to direct me here. I got gaslighted and the affair continued to the point we are at today. I was just thinking last week, how out of our little group at school(the M.O.M. Posse as I call us )I am the only one who had to deal with infidelity so far. I am the one who has been married the longest, but we all know that doesn't matter. Then, this week, I notice this.
There was one lady that said, "She is in a horrible marriage, I think she should go for it." I said, "Okay I will tell YOUR husband that." She said, "He won't care what I said to WW." I said, "No, if he ever wanted to have an affair, I would tell him to go for it." Her face went white and I could see that her stomach dropped. Then she said, "Okay, I understand." I am STRONG in my convictions. If it is something that goes against what I believe to be right, I don't waiver. I have ALWAYS known that adultery was WRONG and I am NOT going to waiver in it. It is NEVER okay. ARGH ARGH ARGH.
There was one lady that said, "She is in a horrible marriage, I think she should go for it." I said, "Okay I will tell YOUR husband that." She said, "He won't care what I said to WW." I said, "No, if he ever wanted to have an affair, I would tell him to go for it." Her face went white and I could see that her stomach dropped. Then she said, "Okay, I understand." I am STRONG in my convictions. If it is something that goes against what I believe to be right, I don't waiver. I have ALWAYS known that adultery was WRONG and I am NOT going to waiver in it. It is NEVER okay. ARGH ARGH ARGH.
So today, I go to the school and I hand my friend SAA. She says, "I can't bring this in my house." I say, "Sure you can. Just take the cover off and put a different cover on it." She says, "I can do that." Then POSOM comes waltzing into the schoolyard. He keeps his distance from me. WW says, "I guess I should tell him he can't come to my DD's bday party tomorrow." I say, "Do what you think is best." She walks over and starts talking to him. I realize then that this is a typical affair and it is going to need to be exposed ASAP. I am going to do what I have to on Monday or Tuesday. It is going to be done face to face with the spouses because I only know where they live. I don't know POSOM'sW name but I will tell her anyways.
This is hard. It is difficult watching a friend do this to their life and the life of someone else. POSOM has 2 DDs. One of them hugged WW. I cringed. What is WW thinking? How disgusting. And POSOM brings his 3 year old out with WW. ARGH WAYTURDS SUCK AZZ. This is going to get rough, but I am doing the right thing.
ARGH. It seems that this affair at the school is going to go on unexposed for a while longer. I was going over to WW's house yesterday morning to expose the affair when WW drives up. I couldn't do it then. Later, I find out that WH's wife was at the school and that's why WW went straight home. So I decide that today is the day. I go over and WW is already there. ARGH So, I decide that I will go closer to afterschool. I leave my house after the rain stops and I walk aver there. I go up the stairs. My heart is racing. I am nervous. I get to the door. I press the doorbell. No answer. I look inside and all the lights are off. I go away defeated and know that I will have to do this another day.
I get to the school. I place myself right in the middle of the two of them. WH walks away. He doesn't look at me, EVER. WW says, "I saw you walking on such and such street, why were you over there?" I DIE. She SAW me by her house. I say, "What does it matter?" I see her face fall. I tell her I was looking for our friend(which I was, to get a ride to the school). She says, "Oh okay. Girls we gotta go, Daddy's in the hospital." I ask, "Oh? What's wrong with BH?" He has had a fever for 6 days straight. He has heart problems and he suffers from sever anxiety. I hope he will be okay. Now, I need to wait. It's killing me. I wanted to tell WW's BH FIRST. I dunno what to do now. I am going to try to get through. Thing is, my friends that know I am trying to tell BH are worried that this might harm him physically. One friend even said, "He may die, then you don't have to worry about it." I said, "I will still tell BW though." ARGH ARGH ARGH
Scotty, ITA with what you are doing. I wish someone would have had a clue to my WH's A and told me. I might have opened my eyes sooner and been able to salvage M. Maybe. But I would have appreciated being told. So you GO, girl.
{{{Pep}}}, so sorry for your loss and I totally agree - his spirit lives on in you. I will be thinking of you and sending good thoughts and prayers your way.
Okay, so today, I went to work. Just after 4 pm, I was on break. I was paged by an associate at the front. I called and she said, "Scotty, WW is here to speak to you." I said, Send her to the back of the store and I will come out. I talked to her. I told her how it was inappropriate to talk about this at my workplace. She said, "You're not working right now." I said, "You don't have a job, you don't know what it is like to have to worry about losing it."
Why was she there? One of the other moms told her that I was at her house yesterday. She was PISSED. She told me that the wake-up call that I gave her last week was enough and that she weighed out her options and she realized that her life is the way she wants it to be. She can improve her marriage. I told her that she can come on here. She can improve her marriage. She told me that I don't need to tell her husband. I am not telling him, for now. I told her that I will watch her even more closely and if this EA isn't finished that I will definitely RUN to tell her husband.
I really don't know what to do. For now, I guess the exposure to the BSs is on hold.
Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." , (or tear up up and eat you).
You did a gutsy thing Scotty, she doesn't value her own self and its dangerous. I remeber pulling a guy off his GF in a bar when he was beating her. She broke a chair over my back in repayment. I learned that a long time ago. Later on in life a girl was complaining of her BF violent tendecies and I told her there was no excuse, she should get a restraining order. I lost touch and it was only a work aquaintece but a year or so later he murdered her with a hammer. I was allways involved with people and pretty grounded when I was young and have more stories of how I tried to save the day for people, ( My wife was one of them), but the issue is clear that unless someone gets thier head out of thier azz they don't want anyones help.
I am proud to know you but please be careful where you cast those pearls of wisdom, the swine, (did I get it right that her H was in the hospital really sick?) will tear you up.
You gave her a choice, she rejected it based on her own values.
Scotty, are you SURE WW is not exaggerating about her husband's condition to try and guilt you into staying away from him? WWs DO lie to protect their drug you know.
Scotty - I still think you should expose. Even if the EA doesn't progress, she is dangerous. She has no intent of exposing herself to her husband, she will just sweep it under the carpet.
He needs to know what she is up to. If he is ill he needs to surround himself with supportive people, NOT waywards.
Scotty - I still think you should expose. Even if the EA doesn't progress, she is dangerous. She has no intent of exposing herself to her husband, she will just sweep it under the carpet.
He needs to know what she is up to. If he is ill he needs to surround himself with supportive people, NOT waywards.
Yes to all that, but as long as you have gone this far, I think investiagting his health might be a good idea. If he is really sick and hie reaction would worsen his condition,(yeah I know, could be bull), you can still expose to someone who will protect him. he deserves it.
Well, let's see. Yesterday, I was talking to the WW at the school. I told her that I didn't appreciate her coming to my workplace to talk about a personal matter. While I was standing there talking to her, the WH came walking up. He laid into me.
Him: Who do you think you are?
Me: Oh you found your nerve? Last week, you wouldn't even look me in the eye and you would walk away whenever I came near.
Him: Why do you think you can come into MY personal business and mess with me uninvited? (I stayed quiet and let him hang himself).
Him: I am a married man and I would NEVER have an affair. I can NOT believe that you would accuse me of such a thing when I a such a stand up guy. You have NO proof. I can be friends with whoever i want to. You better not go to my house or after you tell my wife, she would beat the S--T out of you. She would never believe anything that you had to say, because there is nothing going on. Go ahead, go to WW's house and tell her husband, I don't care.
Me: You WANT me to go to WW's house?
Him: Go ahead, tell her husband(WW was still standing there and she said, "No don't go to my house." I said to her, "I am not going to your house.")
Him: My name is POSMM. DO NOT SAY MY NAME EVERY AGAIN. Don't mess with me, I can be friends with whoever I want to be. I had my 3 year old daughter with me when we went out for coffee, like I would do anything with my daughter there. I am not like that. I would not do anything with this woman other than be her friend. I was only helping her through her problems.
Then he started to walk away and yelled out, "WW, THIS WOMAN IS NO FRIEND TO YOU."
I looked at the WW and I said, "Do you see him clearer now? He doesn't care if I go to YOUR house. He actually told me that he wants me to. He doesn't care about what happens to YOU. Not only is he macking on you, he is macking on his married neighbour. He is so angry with me because he sees me as the obstacle to you two being together, and he wants me GONE. He will not give up easily. This is in your hands now."
I had not seen the other posts here from Vib, Neak and PM. Of course you guys are right. I KNOW they need to know. You guys are right. I just don't think that I am going to be the one to do this. I am stepping back. My safety and my children's well-being is my concern.
Now, as far as my sitch. A message got through from Bampot completely intact. It was this,
Originally Posted by Bampot
Update, As you will see, I have deposited ___ as normal, ___ for my cell phone, ____ for children's activities and ____ for DS10's boxing. In the future please do not assume I will just pay half for whatever the boys want to do.
I still have my own bills to take care of.
Thanks
I was MAD MAD MAD. I read this (I sent a message to IMs reminding them that I should have only received the stuff about the finances and not the other stuff). I wrote to Bampot in my journal. I was writing swear words and telling him how lucky he was that I was in Plan B because I would have called him and given it to him. He is supposed to pay for the children. The thing he was complaining about was a school thing that the children have always done. They have done it every year. I signed them up for it, and sent a message through the IMs just telling Bampit how much it cost. He wrote back saying that he would be willing to pay for half.
While I was writing my letter to Bampot, in my journal, I started to rant about how if I died today, Bampot would have to pay for 100% of their needs since he is their father. I was LIVID. Then I wrote the words, "These are the consequences" and that's when I stopped typing. A feeling of peace surrounded me. I remembered the prayer I say every morning and every night. These are some of the consequences that I have prayed for. The anger left me and I realized, that sometimes, when Bampot gets some of his consequences, they may have an impact on me as well.
Tomorrow, DSx2 will be spending the night at the lurv shack. I am apprehensive about what will happen. I am NOT sending any clothes over there. They will only bring over a couple of items. I will be locking myself in the bathroom after I lock the front door, just in case there is a repeat of last Feb. I am MAD that Bampot still hasn't sent a message through the IMs about this "sleepover." It IS possible that he will bring them home but I doubt it. He will keep them anyways.
Scotty, are you SURE WW is not exaggerating about her husband's condition to try and guilt you into staying away from him? WWs DO lie to protect their drug you know.
The BH's health has actually been well known since BEFORE this. It wasn't something that just came out. We all know that he is sick. I just don't know exactly what it is that he has. I know it had something to do with his heart.
Ok Scotty, glad to see you still have your right cross. Glad you took on thie idiot guy face to face. Wonder is WW will see, or cares about Mr. wonderfuls intentions behind the friendship that is getting way out of line.
Be careful if you go to anyones house, don't go alone. Please listen to me about this. Then don't go inside unless invited and you have a witness ok?
Nobody knows what people are capable of when put in a corner and challaged with the truth.
Your a good friend Scotty..
Oh yeah, can you find out how seriuos his heart condition is somehow? It will help to decide if you should tell him or a wise freind or child about his wifes new friend.
I admire your honesty and your integrity. Wish we could all have a friend like you.
Hope, you do. Even if it is only words on a screen for now.
I told the WW that too. I told her that these other "friends" were willing to sit there and watch her make a HUGE mistake and not do anything about it, except talk about her behind her back. I was the only one who stood up and told her that she was making a big mistake.
So, last night, Bampot calls the boys and tells DS10 that they need to pack extra clothes and pillows for their "sleepover." DS10 told me that and I say, "Hunny, we won't be packing any clothes. You will take your brother's 'Baby' and 'Winnie' and your DSs. Daddy will supply you with whatever else you need." I am making a plan for DSx2 to be outside was Bampot arrives, with the porch door locked and me safely tucked away inside. We have air mattresses on the porch with our camping things and I don't want Bampot to think he still has use of them. Let another waynerd get angry with me this week.
Excellent that you are putting more of the responsibility for taking care of the kids' needs on Bampot.
I don't have little kids, but is it OK to ask them when they return from the "barf shack" if they brushed their teeth? took a shower? changed their clothes? What they ate? etc. This documentation might come in handy down the line.
Sounds like Bampot is having a pity party for himself. Hey, it costs a lot to support TWO wives and TWO families. He should have thought of that before starting the A.
I told the WW that too. I told her that these other "friends" were willing to sit there and watch her make a HUGE mistake and not do anything about it, except talk about her behind her back. I was the only one who stood up and told her that she was making a big mistake.
Hey Scotty -
Just popping in. Read over the latest stuff with your wayward friend, and I wanted to echo the commendation and admiration of the rest on here.
During my A, I confessed to a friend - before D-day, before I slept with the OM a second time. Her first reaction was...to support me. She asked me if the OM was cute, how I felt about him, etc. She was not avidly egging me on, but she didn't discourage me or give me any advice counter to my wild fantasy A feelings.
A few weeks later, she finally had a talk with me. I credit this talk for brushing away much of my fog, and for me deciding to end it with the OM. She told me exactly what I was doing. How I looked, who I had become, and how I was not a person she would ever want to be friends with...but that I had been. And I could be that again.
I will always be grateful to her for having that talk with me. It was HUGE. I hope your friend will appreciate what you have done for her, and I hope it has a positive impact on her life and the choices she is making.
Well, this morning, DSx2 decided that they would be waiting outside for Bampot. They took the items they were bringing with them and waited out front. I locked the doors. I asked DS10 to ring the doorbell when they were leaving so I would know that they had gone. It was past when I expected Bampot to come. I looked outside and saw the truck. I saw DS10 crying and Bampot hugging him. I think Bampot probably asked DS10 where the pillows, extra clothes, etc were and DS10 felt pressured and didn't want to get in trouble. What a turd. He didn't even send a message through the IMs and now he is a turd about it. I am saddened to see my child upset, but I know that I wasn't responsible for it.
I hadn't received my phone call from them yet, so I called and let it ring twice. DS10 called me back. We talked for about 10 minutes. I could hear Bampot talking in the background and I wanted to hang up right away. I knew I couldn't though. DS10 sounded okay. I didn't want to ask him too much about what was happening. I really don't want to know. I am just glad I didn't hear WF's voice or I may have DS7 didn't want to talk to me either. He was too busy playing his DS. Oh well.
I know I should be doing something a little more interesting tonight, but I am going to do the dishes and some laundry while they are out. The time seems to be going so slowly. Hopefully I WILL be able to sleep. I hear it gets easier. I am getting through.
Hey -- I hope you aren't offended that I used the example of Bampot on stableatlast's thread -- I was trying to come up with the most absurd argument I could think of and I consider you such a rock I thought your Bampot was a great example.
I seem to offend here without meaning to -- one of the reasons I stopped posting much. I do truly admire you.
Yeah my take on Bampots letter was "WAAAMbulance" too.
You are awesome scotty, I know its hard waiting for Bampot to see the sewer he is swimming in and wake up to his fear controlling him.
I got an Email from a Christian freind and it was one of those that was supposed to be from God to us things. The one thing that really stuck out was this.---------------------------
Should you find yourself the victim of other people's bitterness , ignorance , smallness or insecurities , remember , things could be worse. You could be one of them! ----------------------------
Hey -- I hope you aren't offended that I used the example of Bampot on stableatlast's thread -- I was trying to come up with the most absurd argument I could think of and I consider you such a rock I thought your Bampot was a great example.
I seem to offend here without meaning to -- one of the reasons I stopped posting much. I do truly admire you.
Seeking, I couldn't have been offended because I didn't even read the thread
If Bampot can serve as an example to others, good or bad, I am okay with that. I do not get easily offended by other people's opinions. If someone were to personally attack my children, my family or myself and say things that were untrue, then I would be offended. If I didn't want my story to be an example to help others, I never would have posted in the first place. No worries.
DSx2 came home unscathed. DS10 told me that they were not allowed to call home to say good night to me. That's fine. They know that I wanted to talk to them and I even emailed them this morning. I was going to text, but since it is Bampot's phone, I thought of that as contact with Bampot.
DS10 also told me that Bampot said that he couldn't take them out to play pool, as he had planned, because he had to buy them clothes. He bought them PJs and they returned home in the clothes they were wearing when they left. Fine by me. DS10 said that any time they want to sleep over now, they can since he has everything they need. I guess we will see when the next time they want to.
I made it. I even got to sleep in for an hour this morning. Now, get ready for the coming week. It's a long weekend next week, since it is Thanksgiving next Monday. So 2 4-day school weeks for the kiddos. And that means I get to sleep in 2 more days.
There is much debate and many posts about how mean the posters here are and how unwelcoming we are. I will put it to you this way, you just walked into our home, took your shoes off, put your feet on the coffee table and decided that you wouldn't even introduce yourselves or learn any of customs and "rules." How would YOU welcome someone like that into your HOME? This is what we think of MB. It has been here for many of us during our darkest moments.
Thank you for putting this so well - you've summed it up perfectly!
NP. It's the way I felt and I understood the posts. I don't want to be unwelcoming, because we ARE very welcoming. It's just nice to be shown some respect too.
Ya I understand that, I figured if they want to read the web site I will not post until they ask questions on how to save their marriage. In the mean time I wont read/post on their thread
There is much debate and many posts about how mean the posters here are and how unwelcoming we are. I will put it to you this way, you just walked into our home, took your shoes off, put your feet on the coffee table and decided that you wouldn't even introduce yourselves or learn any of customs and "rules." How would YOU welcome someone like that into your HOME? This is what we think of MB. It has been here for many of us during our darkest moments.
Thank you for putting this so well - you've summed it up perfectly!
So, Scotty, what's your current Plan B status? Has your WH tried to initiate discussions about meeting your terms for the end of Plan B -- and leaving OW -- through your intermediaries? When is your end-date for Plan B if he doesn't abandon his other woman?
As far as I know, Bampot has not had any discussion with IMs about dumping OW and coming home. There was one time when he told DS7, "I don't know," when answering the question, "When are you coming home Daddy?" BUT, he was most likely just annoyed with them asking over and over again.
As far as when I will be ending my Plan B, I actually have never officially said on here. That is for two reasons, one, it is longer than what DrH suggests, and two, I reserve the right to change my mind. I will tell you that at MINIMUM, it will be December 18, 2011. I still have a lot of love for Bampot and I don't think that I will be ready before then. By that I mean, moving to filing for D. That is where I see my Plan B ending, either in marital recovery or D. I don't know if Bampot has other plans, but the beauty is that I don't have to worry about what HIS plans are.
I answer this question honestly everyday, "If Bampot came home and asked to reconcile, what would I say?" Until that answer is "No," I am in Plan B.
Personally, I feel the same way Scotty...My end date was moved up a little for me and it is definitly over the plan B time that Dr Harley suggests....I go by what you said AND that I would have absolutely NO desire to date right now, so I figure whats the damage done by extending Plan B, ya know.
I dont know if thats right but I feel that if I D sooner than I was ready for, I would just always wonder....But when Im done, thats it IM DONE. And I will fell no regret on my part.
Exactly. There is no rush. I don't even plan on dating EVER.
Apparently, one of the things that happens to a BS during Plan B is that we need to go from a Buyer to a Renter. Well, I am a SUPREME BUYER. By that I mean, since I the moment I started dating Bampot, I didn't have eyes for anyone else. Even in my dreams I couldn't "cheat." I was in it for the long haul. In the summer of 2008, Bampot and I were watching an episode of Oprah and we decided that Divorce wasn't in our vocabulary. I didn't realize then that he had most likely started the PA. BUT I MEANT IT. It doesn't mean I will never be D, but right now, I am still married.
I don't sit around waiting for Bampot. I am living my life an trying to find who I am again. That is important for ME. Just yesterday someone at work said that I am always so happy. I am always smiling and joking. I told her that I am not always like that, but it is true that I have found happiness again. If my WH had died, noone would be telling me that I should be moving on yet, so why is it different now? Something did die. My dream of my future. Even worse, it IS possible that it can come true. That uncertainty is sometimes worse. The fact that I don't know. that is why I just keep moving forward. That's all I am asking of myself. Move one step at a time. Even if some days I only take a baby step.
You are doing fine, Scotty....My cousin in laws husband died in a few months after discovering he had cancer..They had two kids. I talked to her and she said that she couldnt imagine what I was going through....I said what do you mean you are going through worse than me....She said she knew her Husband had loved her and she would never have to worry about seeing him with someone else...She said she would have a hard time moving on from H having an A because there is always that little hope that he might come back...She doesnt have that so she can move on better....I suppose.
She said this to me shortly after my Dday and I have been feeling sorry for myself ever since...
My sister has a friend whose husband died suddenly on a bus on their way to the airport to go to Disney. It was shortly after my sister found out about my BIL's A. She said that she felt badly for my sister. The same reason as your friend said. Funny thing is, I feel worse for them. Even if Bampot never comes home, at least my children will have known their father. That is at least something I can have. Sad, I know.
I have not seen your signature for quite awhile on here. I am sure that you want to be private and with your friends on here. I just wanted to say tho life is a constant process, until it ends. I am an old codger as you know, age 68, but still feel that way.
Have had my son here living with me for two months now since he have gotten over a relationship with someone, and found a new job.
Just wishing the best for you, and you will be remembered in my prayers tonight as soon as I finish cooking and wathcing a movie.........*s*
"If Bampot came home and asked to reconcile, what would I say?" Until that answer is "No," I am in Plan B.
One of the most clear, articulate transition plans I've ever read here.
Great attitude and personification of the woman of strength!
Thanx. I attribute this clearer way of thinking to a dark Plan B. I am a perfectionist when it comes to myself(I let others get away with things I wouldn't let myself) and I can always find things that I could have done better. Live and learn. I just try to help out others get the same kind of peace. It is a process and it takes time. I find myself starting to have experiences that I can talk about that don't have anything to do with Bampot. That was hard since I was with him for more than half my life. It will take time and that is something that I can say, fo'sure.
I have not seen your signature for quite awhile on here. I am sure that you want to be private and with your friends on here. I just wanted to say tho life is a constant process, until it ends. I am an old codger as you know, age 68, but still feel that way.
Have had my son here living with me for two months now since he have gotten over a relationship with someone, and found a new job.
Just wishing the best for you, and you will be remembered in my prayers tonight as soon as I finish cooking and wathcing a movie.........*s*
Just please take care.
Rom
Hey Tom...I am glad to hear your son is doing well, hope you are to. I only wish the best for you too, Tom. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
In keeping with my telling the whole story, I wanted to share with you all today.
I woke up this morning with a feeling that I had a dream about Bampot, although I couldn't remember exactly what it was. That started my little head spinning with thoughts about Bampot. On saturdays, I usually have my mom drop off her car so I can get to work on Sunday mornings. Yesterday, both my mother and I forgot. I knew that I needed to be out of the house by a certain time to be able to catch the only bus that would take me to work on time. Since Bampot is due 3 minutes before that, I was pretty sure I would be missing that bus.
So, I started to think about what it would be like to break Plan B and ask Bampot for a ride to work. I thought about what I would wear. What I would talk about to fill those 10 minutes. How happy I would be to talk to him. The thoughts just kept right on coming. It made me really happy to think about it. I wanted to talk to him so much. I thought about how nice it would be to be together, all four of us, again.
I was talking myself into it. I was really going to do it. I was going to throw away everything that I had done for the last year. I was going to do this for 10 minutes of awkwardness. For a few possible crumbs. I was going to disappoint all of you, let my children down. More importantly, I was going to disappoint and let MYSELF down. I prayed on it. I asked if this was really what I was supposed to do. Were these thoughts Godly or unGodly. I got my answer. I didn't do it. It wasn't the right thing to do.
I have thought about it every moment since. I need to shake it. I even looked at Bampot today while he was picking up AND dropping off the children. I saw HER too. I said my share of swear words and things I wouldn't repeat in front of my children. It's a part of the process I guess. I will be fine, just wanted to share in case there are other people who have the same thoughts/feelings. This way everyone can see how normal they are. Although, I dont know that I am all that "normal." HAHAHAHAHAHA
We all have choices that we need to make in life. Hopefully you will count this as a VICTORY for yourself.
As I was reading your post it reminded me of dreams I use to have when I was much younger. They were of my grandfather. In these dreams I was almost controlling them so I would setup in the dreams things that him and I use to do together and also as I got older things that I wished we got to do together. When I would wake up I wished so horribly that he was still around so that I could tell him how much I miss him and that I love him. (I'm crying now dammit, but it feels good too).
I can feel the pain of grieving in your words. I wish sometimes it didn't suck so bad.
Well I just want to say that I'm rooting for your dreams to become reality and not just wishes.
I am so relieved that you didnt do it Scotty...I promise you it would have set you waaaaay back...Take it from someone who did a bad plan B for a while...Hang in there.
I know it would have. I knew it even when I was thinking about it. I just wanted to talk to him and have ANY connection with him so badly.
See, I know a woman whose H was having an affair a year ago. She was on DB instead. She of course did things differently. They are trying to recover right now. Also, in the case of my parents, my dad did a Plan A for almost 2 years and my mom is back home. I sometimes think about how I could be doing something differently.
I BELIEVE in MB. I BELIEVE in DrH. There are moments when I just don't know. I get the what ifs. I start to question myself and what I am doing. I KNOW I dodged a bullet.
I KNOW that the situation would have been WORSE if I had done it. I understand that ANY contact with me feeds Bampot "cake." I will only receive crumbs. I deserve more than crumbs.
If I really look more closely at myself, I think I was experiencing a lot of FEAR. I was afraid that this wasn't going to lead to M R EVER.
I do love Bampot. I still wish for things that can be. I don't know that I will ever get it. I know I will be okay if I don't. Honestly, if asked what I would wish for most often, the answer behind health for my children would be a happy marriage with Bampot.
Just getting it all out. Don't worry, I don't need cheering up, I am just keeping it real.
What is a keylogger, how does it work and where do you get one? Curious...hope I'm not being redundant by asking, but wasn't able to read through all the posts to find the answer. Thanks!
...I KNOW that the situation would have been WORSE if I had done it. I understand that ANY contact with me feeds Bampot "cake." I will only receive crumbs. I deserve more than crumbs.
Yup you are probably right on that Scotty.
Remember the "olive branch"? I was wondering if there is some way you can let him know you are more awesome than before,(cuz you are), and doing well and are going to be happy but until you are sure what part he plays you wont move on yet.
The thing is scotty, you have to mean what you say, you must try to move on. It isn't a game to make him jealous or panic although that might happen
This is what I think is going on scotty. tell me its not possible if its not.
1, Family sees you as "MB" crazy or at least different from them because of your convictions. Bampot knows all these people too and talks to them. The general consesus is you are the odd one because you aren't like them. General misery loves company and the natives beating the drums stuff.
2. Bampot hears from all these people because they are to wimpy to back you up and want to be frinds with EVERYBODY. They don't care about what he is doing all they care is that they remain friends. He knows by thier testimony that you are waiting for your marriage to be reconciled and are also gunning for waywards. They all collectively and gutlessly agree you are wrong for waiting and why don't you give it up. Mostly because you offend thier crap they do.
In a prideful and exuberant defense of the wayward way of selfdecption and in an attempt to remain friends with the rest of your family Bampot probably verballly jumped on thier bandwagon and has made statements like, "Aw its to bad, I feel sorry for her" or "Its hurting my relationship with the kids" or whatever Bull that he can spin to stay on the side of the majority.
That is what I meant when I said, "Its lonely at the top" before. You are above all them but fighting it alone with even those in "affairland" working against you, and influencing him at the same time.
Instaed of appearing like the outcast and staying home lonely and broken person, (as probably they all beleive), why not just be happy and start living to the fullest. I don't mean dating, ugh, its more trouble than its worth to me right now and what for anyway? I mean telling him you are and will be fine without him, then doing it. There is more to life than waiting for Him, and if evryone is telling him you are sad and alone and playing at how sorry for you they are, maybe its time you did something to stop the bullcrap.
There is a number of ways you could do this as an evil genious and you could create any story you like, but the truth will serve you better. Here it is from my perspective.
You are an awesome women of integrity and strength. A freind to the end and any man would be blessed and proud to be with you. A women of true beauty that comes from inside that would bring love for the rest of your life and beyond thru your children and everyone your life touches.
Tell him that and set a timeline because you won't wait forever, it just to painful to be attached to someone who would betray you like that. God says you can divorce him if you like but you also had the choice of forgiveness and you took forgivness, the high road. Don't miss out being with me Bampot, I promise you will regret it.
Then start to separate him from your life, hopes, and dreams. Be happy Scotty, you deserve it. You can't swim with anchor tied around your ankle. Im not saying date or look for a guy, just start getting rid of this wieght. Maybe if he hears your happy and knows there is a timeline it will wake up his dumb AZZ.
To me, any attention would just be from him wanting to reassure he still had the cake of a waiting wife at home and tick me off. Its time all these fools realized you are REALLY waiting by choice, not desparation and pining for Him. Show him you will be fine without him, your children need that too.
And you will not only be fine, but you will allways be an awesome Scotty.
I too am glad you made the right choice for *you*. Yes, for YOU. It would have dealt your heart and soul a severe blow for a few moments of trying to connect with the stranger in your H's body.
As to your comments about how others have handled affairs and the outcome. I would like to point out how much I admire how high you have set the bar. Why? Your mom and dad are not "happily" recovering with a solid MB plan in the works. Your friend used a proven technique to end the A and the D but what is their recovery plan? DB does not have a long term plan for building an affair proof, happy M.
Setting the bar low and not listening to the good people here on MB left me with continued contact, PTSD and an M that is limping along. That is not what you want my friend.
Of course you crave being with Bampot. You love him. Plan B is helping you avoid being in the drama too much (except peeking and seeing WH and OW at child pick up time).
You are human. That is okay.
Whenever I am thinking about how much I miss my WH, I tell myself that Plan B is preferable to
-Drama of contact -Angst of false recovery
Best to stay in Plan B to inviting false recovery before a wayward is ready to say "Uncle", "I want you", "I am willing to work at rebuilding", "I will be a buyer, not a renter or freeloader".
YK?
And.....I am not for olive branches in darkness other than having an attractive,inviting yard to glance at pickup/dropoff, a purdy person to catch a glimpse of by chance (not on purpose), a no lovebusting spouse to talk to should the white flag ever be raised.
CP, I know that you are trying to help but you are way off base with this one. Bampot doesn't talk to ANYONE. He has OW and their new friends. He talks to his mother through emails and his sister on her children's birthdays and they live blocks away from eachother. Bampot only hears about things that have to do with me through our boys. And, frankly, I don't think he asks them too often.
I know that my parents don't have a solid recovery system in place. I am waiting for those friends of mine to implode too. I know that MB is the best way for a couple to recover from infidelity. I KNOW that I could have a spectacular marriage using these concepts. Trouble is, I have no spouse to attempt it with and the only spouse I want is Bampot. That is the problem. I am still head over heals madly in love with the turd. I can't even think about sharing my life with someone else. BUT I do want to share my life. It is going to take me a long time.
I am going to stay dark and try to get over him. I don't know how. I am jut going to be still. Being still isn't the same as doing nothing. I think that came from The Karate Kid.
Scotty, if for some reason your WH chooses not to come back is not a reflection on you or your marriage. I just want to reinforce that for you. From a kid of divorce perspective, the best gift you can give your boys (aside from an intact family) is for you to not date until they are up and out of the house. I don't see that being a problem for you. You are devoted.
It is not UNCOMMON for those in Plan B to wonder....WANT....desire....their former spouses (notice I didn't say WAYWARD???.... ;)). In fact, I would think it would be more UNCOMMON NOT to have these feelings.
You do better than most, by not giving IN to those feelings. And you are doing more than wonderful sticking to these PLANS. They are working....for YOU. That is the beauty of them.
I for one have learned the sheer strength and courage it truly takes to do this. I saw first hand with Queenie, and now you.....
K Scotty, I respect your descision completely. I'm not a quitter either, and I still love my late wife even after 1 1/2 years and all the stupid crap she pulled. I understand.
Just wanted to make sure you knew you were in the drivers seat.
As far as "affairland" gossip mill not ever reaching Bampots ears then good. I was wrong in that guess.
Just can't figure out how he got his head stuck so bad up his behind. Does he have big ears?
Thanx guys. It is a process. I know that I need to go through it, I was just sharing these thoughts and feelings so that others may learn from them. I didn't act on them. I want others to see that even though you have those feelings, you don't act on them.
Not, of course it is my real husband that I miss and desire and not this turdman he has become.
Just got home from my Mom's house for Thanksgiving. All stuffed full of turkey and apple strudel. I start a challenge through my personal trainer tomorrow. I need to be good. We are also upping our training to 4 days a week now. Mon, Tues, Wed, and Fri. I am seeing great results and others are seeing it too.
So, I was thinking about my feelings as of late. I think that there was some residual feelings from last weekend. It was the first time the kiddos slept over there. DS10 wants to sleep there again. Only this time, Bampot will be sleeping with OW. I am NOT okay with that. We don't have a plan on when it will be, but I am already dreading it.
There was more too. I know that my love for Bampot isn't going to just magically evaporate. I understood that all along. I think the problem I am having is letting go of his love for me. He used to love me so much. I didn't always appreciate it. He smothered me in it sometimes. The night that he asked me to be his girlfriend, he told me that he loved me. I think that it is hard for me to believe that that is all gone. I don't want it to be true. But it has to be. I know that he will always feel something for me, but he couldn't possibly love me anymore. He never would have been able to hurt me this way. I will get through this. It is what I need to do.
I am not in a bad place, so please don't worry about me. I am just processing things. I am actually a lot better off than I have been. I am trying to find myself again. I don't think about Bampot all of the time anymore. I am actually able to have fun. I still think, "Bampot would like this shirt on me." But then I remember, it is about what I like and not him or any other man.
FF, don't worry about me dating anyone else. I really don't see that happening any time soon, if ever. I can't even think about it right now. It wouldn't be fair to another man. He wouldn't have all of me because a large part of my heart still belongs to Bampot. I wouldn't want to hurt someone else like that.
I wish I could give you a IRL hug, Scotty. I come back here lately just to check on you. It was work that started forbidding post at "social networks" but I found I am doing much better without the stress of seeing so many newbies laying bleeding on the floor in distress.
Sooo, I pop in and see if you are ok and if you need encouragement. You, your boys and bampot remain in my prayers.
Thank you FF. I think of many of you as friends. Even some people who helped me out in those first few days and haven't been seen since. I appreciate EVERY ONE OF YOU.
Sorry to hijack your thread. Ihave been following your story and really admire how you have handled things. I can't imagine a time when I stop thinking about H.
I have gone to Plan B, today. At work trying not to burst into tears and could do with some real help on tips to get through the first few weeks.
Also, do you know any Plan B success stories. My downfall is that I went into withdrawal just before Plan B, but have been in Plan A for 2 1/2 months. I did my best.
Hitch, I will try to help you out on your thread when I get back on the computer tonight. Remind me if I don't
The best advice I can say to you right now is to stay dark. It will get easier. Be still. Don't let your Plan B falter or you will be angry with yourself.
Well, I changed my relationship status on FB to separated. I know, no biggie, but I felt like I needed to make a step in that direction. I needed it for me. Silly, but it felt weird. Now, if only I could think about what to call Bampot instead of, "My husband." I can't bring myself to say, "Ex." And I can't really think of a different thing to say. Suggestions? and no "Turd," "douche", and "AZZ" are not options.
I still call my WH my husband...I dont know why, just habit I guess...but I think I am finally ready to say Ex.
I went to the doctors the other day, a new Dr, and for some reason they asked me if I lived with another adult....Weird...but anyway, I panicked, I must have turned bright red and then answered "Yes, I live with my H."
I just couldnt bring myself to say it, it just seems so final even though I know it is final...Oh well.
I remember when my personal trainer saw me putting my family ring back on my ring finger(I take it off to punch because it turns and hurts). He looked at me and I said, "It's my family ring." He said, "I was going to ask you if you were getting married or something." I said, "I am married, he is just temporarily with someone else." Then I laffed and he laffed too. I am still married, so I will respect myself enough to act as a married woman. Doesn't mean I will always remain married, although deep down, I sure hope I will be(only Bampot will need to return before my end date for Plan B, because I will file for a D then).
Good point, scotty and I hate "estranged". It just seems like I might get questions I dont want to answer...I think if you just say exH or husband there is really no questions.
my two sense..... i refered to him as my husband until i filed for divorce.... then it was just his first name or my DD father. I do call him my xh now but not all the time usually dd dad or his first name.
When I first found out about A, I put WH name in my phone as Satan....He found out and he said he loved it...when he knew I was in church one day he called and thought it was hystercal that Satan was calling me in Church...
Well, in my speed dial for both my home and cell, Wh#&EFACE's numbers ARE under that name.
Alien-invader would be fine except then I would need to explain. It's for the times when I am talking to people who don't know Bampot. If I said his name, I would have to explain who he is, then I say, "My husband." Maybe I could say, "The man I married?" Sounds cheesy. "Husband" it is.
Still, I do call Bampot those other names and sometimes worse.
Thanks for the updates, Scotland. Best of luck in your Plan B.
And be very careful with your personal trainer. Remember your own Extraordinary Precautions... a PT is in a unique position to meet your needs in many, many ways. Keep your walls high, you're very vulnerable right now!
DNM, don't worry, I have already been given "the talk" by all of the other MBers about the personal trainer. Although I say personal, we actually go as a class with at least 2 of us. And I will NOT go alone. He doesn't have my number, if he needs to contact me, it's through my friends. I see him a few hours a week and that's it. Thanx for looking out for me, I know it is said out of love(See Opt, it is said to EVERYONE dealing with an active A ).
When I first found out about A, I put WH name in my phone as Satan....He found out and he said he loved it...when he knew I was in church one day he called and thought it was hystercal that Satan was calling me in Church...
A$$h@le.
Now that made me chuckle; but I totally agree - A$$h@le!
I keep getting the talk from my doctor; give yourself some time, it takes a year to love again, make sure you use condoms (blah). I keep telling him - not remotely interested in that or a relationship for that matter.
Why does everyone seem to push for us to move on to the next relationship? I feel as though I have barely had enough time to grieve such a traumatic and devastating loss. Sometimes when thinking about the situation I still occasionally cannot catch my breath. Yet even my friends (whom I love dearly) are starting to contemplate who they can set me up with. Again Blah. Sorry Scotty for rambling.
When I first found out about A, I put WH name in my phone as Satan....He found out and he said he loved it...when he knew I was in church one day he called and thought it was hystercal that Satan was calling me in Church...
A$$h@le.
That's actually pretty priceless, stillhere! Would've been better if he had actually repented though...
I have trouble saying "husband" AND "ex-husband" right now. Husband seems to intimate, like it's a lie now, and ex is just too final. It actually angers me when I hear people calling him that... Husband until the divorce is final, I guess. I just say his name, or The Jerk.
NP, I just used to HATE it when people would say "your ex." I used to correct them and say, "We are still married." Now, I don't say anything. I try not to talk about him too much either. It seems to help. I don't call him mean names to anyone IRL, except you guys and myself.
well if you want a creative name... a friend of mine refers and has for about a year and half now (a year an half after the affair started)to my now XH as PLANKTON.... as in the stuff below sea barnkles. Her daughter told her it was the lowest form of sea life.... so that is how she has always refered to him.
Okay guys. I have a confession(won't surprise PM though). I have been acting as my own email IM for the past few months. My IMs became unreliable and hard to reach. I would send messages through their email but I would send it as if it were written by them. Problem came up when I realized that Bampot could have found out that I sent the emails by reading the full headings(thank you spying thread). It had been okay, at least emotionally for me, until this morning.
This month, Bampot and I get paid 3 times. I figured out a way to ensure that I would have enough money to cover my house bills in case he didn't pay me for the third pay cheque. I am prepared because I am always thinking about possibilities. Well, he sent this email yesterday, in response to my email that he had overpayed half of DS10's boxing training money.
Originally Posted by turdman
I have transferred the $35 back.
Based on your original demand of $800 per month I will not be transferring over $400 my next pay.
If the boys require anything please let me know and I will see if I can get it for them
This was at 835 pm
This morning, I woke up to this email
Originally Posted by Turdman w/OW
I wanted to inform you that after 3 more months of covering half of DS10's boxing you will have to take my half out of the $800/month I transfer over for them.
I agreed to pay half and is why I am going to cover 3 more months.
This decision is based on actions of your own.
During the winter time I told the boys I was going to take them tobogganing. You send them without snow pants. Since snow pants are very expensive I could not just go buy them that day. Therefore I had to disappoint the boys and not take them tobogganing. The one time I took them skating. I am impressed they were allowed to bring skates and helmets.
I had them sleep over night in the last few weeks. You sent them without pajamas or a change of clothes for the next day. I had to take the little money I had set aside for the sleep over and go buy them PJs and clothes to wear.
When I pick them up on Saturdays and Sundays the first thing they ask me if they can have breakfast. I make sure they have a good lunch and a healthy supper while they are here. Quite often when I call and talk to DS10 or talk to them on the weekend about the week they inform me they had gone to Subway or Chinese Restaurant.
Based on some of these things I going to stop sending money for extra things so I have funds to cover when they are with me.
I am not reacting to it, but I am going to act now. I am going to put some legal pressure on Bampot and he is going to see something that he didn't expect. No more Mrs. Nice Scotty. Yes, I WAS being nice before. He awoke the dragon in me. It is not going to be evil (although I so want to tow the car to her driveway and let it be HIS headache).
I am not entering Plan F/U, I am still going to do this by the MB way, I am just angry and when I am angry I do my best work.
I have already given myself all of the 2x4's and I will be the first to advocate not doing it this way. I am currently changing my IM so no worries. This time, I will stick to complete darkness(I told you guys I was human and I often make mistakes but if I didn't learn from them, I would be CRAZY )
On a funnier note, Guess what the kids had for dinner today? Kraft dinner. Hot dogs were for lunch. That sounds healthy and filling to me, DS10 has been eating for the last 1.5 hours since they arrived home. And speaking of them arriving home, I didn't hear them ring the doorbell, the batteries must have died in it, then I heard them knocking. I went to the door and I could see through the shadows, that Bampot was still there. I unlocked the door. Then I heard Bampot say, "Is she there? Are you sure?" DS10 said, "Yes, I didn't have a key." I was standing right behind the door. DS10 could see me, but Bampot couldn't, he said, "Go inside and make sure she is there." My mom's car was parked outside, how did he think it got there? I whispered to DS10, just go inside and then come back out and tell him I am home. He did this. He came out and said, "She's home." Bampot said, "Did you see her face?" DS10 said, "Yes, she IS home."
The kids and I went inside and I said, "I am sorry, I didn't hear the doorbell." DS10 said, "Well, Daddy drove around the block twice."
Get your new IM team set up yesterday, girl! I'm not going to bother clobbering ya, because I know you already know everything I could tell you.
I agree with your decision to go the legal route for what he pays. When it's official, you both know what to expect, and someone else can play the enforcer if he decides it isn't convenient for him to pay for something he agreed to.
Good grief! WF is putting financial pressure on him, Scotty. All is not well in affairland. Please please please get your IM in place and go back to being blissfully unaware of his shenanigans!
In the meantime, I am stepping up my prayers for all of you including Bampot.
As a mom of 2 boys (and 1 girl) I can tell you that they will go through times where they are hungry ALL the time...and then they will grow like crazy. It can wreck havoc on a budget. (My DD went from a girls' size 5 to woman's size 8 shoe in less than 9 months).
I thought it was interesting that Bampot was grousing about $ and then ff said something about the financial pressure that WF must be putting on him. I'm sure having two hungry boys eating everything in site (cereal, bread, cheese...if it's edible, it's gone!) might be adding to the tension.
BTW, my kids all tower over me now. My DD25 is 5ft 11in (5 inches taller than me) and she is the shortest. Must have been the 4+ gallons of milk a week they put away when they were younger...
As a mom of 2 boys (and 1 girl) I can tell you that they will go through times where they are hungry ALL the time...and then they will grow like crazy. It can wreck havoc on a budget. (My DD went from a girls' size 5 to woman's size 8 shoe in less than 9 months).
I thought it was interesting that Bampot was grousing about $ and then ff said something about the financial pressure that WF must be putting on him. I'm sure having two hungry boys eating everything in site (cereal, bread, cheese...if it's edible, it's gone!) might be adding to the tension.
BTW, my kids all tower over me now. My DD25 is 5ft 11in (5 inches taller than me) and she is the shortest. Must have been the 4+ gallons of milk a week they put away when they were younger...
Lol, yeah boys do eat huh? Where do they put it? girls too, my granddaughetr was a two fisted eater when she started. One had after another.
yeah Scotty, I wouldn't be surprised about Bampot really reaching when is trying to blame you still, and now for his financial troubles yet. When you do get IMs back, I think it would help him realize that he doesn't have accsess to you through his words if your IMs made it clear that they will rewrite anything that sounds demeaning, and be sure to pass the facts only.
That will cut his Domestic fix to blame you for his troubles and possibly make the pressure cooker tighter over there, while preserving yourself. just had to do it one more time.
Thanx guys. I already figured that it had to do with WF. I know I have to preserve myself. I actually thought about MelodyLane YELLING at me while I was reading it and saying, "I told you so." Because, frankly, she did.
As far as the kids eating, I know that they eat constantly. Not that I need to explain it to Bampot, but DS10 doesn't eat breakfast. He never has. Even as an infant, he would be up for a couple of hours before he would even take a bottle. DS7 does eat breakfast. I don;t let them bring any snacks with them though. And, Bampot doesn't provide them with any. He gives them lunch and then dinner. Last night, I asked DS7 what WF ate(because I was pretty sure that she didn't eat KD with them) he said, "She had pizza. It was HERS though. We don't eat her food, only what Daddy buys."
I know I get glimpses through DSx2, what they offer, I can't avoid. I just wanted to find out about what they ate. I used to ask them every time they came home, but DS10 would get angry, so I stopped asking.
I am planning away. Don't worry about the IM, a new one is in place. Bampot is just not aware about it yet.
.. I asked DS7 what WF ate(because I was pretty sure that she didn't eat KD with them) he said, "She had pizza. It was HERS though. We don't eat her food, only what Daddy buys." ....
Wow, it sure doesn't sound like domestic bliss over there. They feel like they must separate what food who eats and let the children in on it? Will she be asking that the children bring thier own TP too? She sure doesn't sound like Mary Poppins does she? At least she could ask the 10 and 7 year old to chip in for the pizza before she slaves over the telephone and orders it.
Well we knew it was like camping for them all anyways. Wonder how her DD provides her TP, oh sorry, we haven't got that far yet. Maybe you should be prepared and get a few rolls and initial every sheet for the boys for when money gets real tight. Wanna stay responsible scotty ya know...
Bampots gotta be seeing this soon as unfair treatment of his boys, hope the little light goes on and starts to get brighter on his dashboard.
I would like to send you a friendly personal message. If interested, ask the MODS for my email. I'm happy to see how strong and focused you are becoming. Like a TIGERESS ! Pep
How do I ask the mods? PrincessMeggy has me on FB if you wanna ask her Pep. That way I will KNOW that it is YOU.
SB, when I saw that you had been the last one to post, I was hoping that you had some amazing insights into the email. I guess we all analyzed that one correctly.
I would like to send you a friendly personal message. If interested, ask the MODS for my email. I'm happy to see how strong and focused you are becoming. Like a TIGERESS ! Pep
BTW, could we refrain from calling me a tigeress? I will tell you why off board.
Don't beat yourself up too much over this, Scotty.
The gem here is that Bampot is WHINING over how much it costs to support TWO families. He should have realized that on Day 1. I mean, if you are going to go after an OW, he should have picked a wealthy one WITHOUT KIDS AT HOME!!
So Bampot has to buy clothes for your kids. BFD. If he's sharing custody, he has to provide for them. Otherwise, you could take 100% custody and he could PAY YOU MORE and he can not see the kids.
Poor, pitiful Bampot.
And if he stops paying for the lessons, let HIM explain to your kids why... or you can. "Sorry, boys... no more boxing lessons cuz Daddy spent the money on OW's kids."
I know... that's cruel. But sometimes you just want to speak the truth!!!!
There is going to be some eye opening things that Bampot will experience soon enough, and the beauty of it is that I am only going to be doing what is legally allowed. The fact that he won't be happy with it, is a bonus.
I have actually lost the anger in it and am just doing things the way they need to get done. The anger helped me, but I would not advocate anyone doing it themselves.
Well, at 4 am, I woke up after having a dream that Bampot came home because.......WF died, in SCOTLAND. It was a strange dream.
This morning, DS7 was running late for school. I get to the school and my friend is waiting to take me to the track. As I get into the van, we hear sirens, A LOT of sirens. We get to the corner and I say, "Wanna me nosey?" She says, "Sure." We try to drive up but the road is closed. We turn down a street and for some reason I say, "Can we go around to the other side and see?" We do, and it is the WW from the school. She has been in an accident. A truck ran into her and pushed her into a cab. She was being put into an ambulance. We drove back around and went to her house. Someone else already told her H and MIL. My friend gave them a ride to the accident scene and her H went in the ambulance. My friend drove her MIL to the hospital(we beat the ambulance). I will find out in a couple of hours how she is. I saw that she was conscious and they didn't have the lights on on the way to the hospital so I am sure it is a precaution.
Not too surprised about the IM. The thought crossed my mind, but it's oaky. It's not always easy to always put things into place and the important part was you learned......
So, my next thought is........is your new IM a MB IM??????......
Actually no. She is an IRL friend of mine. She could be a temporary one, but she is willing to take over for me. She knew that I was doing it for the past few months and offered her services back then. I don't know if she will know how to filter properly or be able to keep it to herself. We will see. If there are any problems, it will get taken care of.
ETA: I really DO have IMs. They didn't go on the computer very often, so I asked one of their sisters. This summer, she went away, and she rarely checked the emails. I took it upon myself to do it. I didn't see much harm. Bampot rarely wrote much anyways. I know now that I was WRONG WRONG WRONG.
She is out of the hospital. That leech of an OM was standing close to me while I was talking to MIL. He didn't seem too surprised, so he must have already been informed. Shows me that the A is still alive and kicking. I knew it would be, and I have decided that I can't be the one to tell, but I am certain he will find out one day. I thought it would have been more interesting had he been in the car with her. Explain that one away.
When I saw BH, I said, "Hi I'm Scotty." He said, "Oh hi. WW has spoken about you a lot." Hmmmmmm. I think she was trying to preempt it. Well, her BH and MIL will see that I am a caring person and don't want to harm WW. It's out of my hands for the moment.
You guys are going to have to understand that I am not telling for now. That's it, that's all. There are some times when exposure may create harm to the person who exposes. I am CERTAIN that the BH WILL find out. He will, it just won't be me. I have talked to someone about this off-board and that person agreed with the full sitch that I can't fully discuss on here. Remember, I have told people about this web site. They DO lurk me here. I have decided that I am NOT going to tell but the seed has been planted and if someone else takes it upon themselves to tell, I won't even know who it was. I DO know that it WILL happen.
That is all I have to say about that sitch. As I have stated, EXPOSURE IS IMPORTANT AND THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
You guys are going to have to understand that I am not telling for now. That's it, that's all. There are some times when exposure may create harm to the person who exposes. I am CERTAIN that the BH WILL find out. He will, it just won't be me. I have talked to someone about this off-board and that person agreed with the full sitch that I can't fully discuss on here. Remember, I have told people about this web site. They DO lurk me here. I have decided that I am NOT going to tell but the seed has been planted and if someone else takes it upon themselves to tell, I won't even know who it was. I DO know that it WILL happen.
That is all I have to say about that sitch. As I have stated, EXPOSURE IS IMPORTANT AND THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
Well, that friend of mine, who was using DB, just messaged me on FB. Her WH left last year, some time in July. He came home in February this year. He still talks to OW and is moving out again. FR anyone? I told her about this place. I hope she decides to come here. I know how much it helped me.
Just goes to show that although DB was able to get her her WH back, it did NOTHING for the recovery AFTER the affair(although since he hasn't stopped talking to OW it was never really over).
I can't remember the book, or where the quotes were on here about "Just friends." I think it was mentioned by MrW or Mark. I have a friend who may need it's words of wisdom. Thanx.
So, this afternoon, I was upstairs reading, and DS10 comes into my room. He says, "Urgent message from daddy. He won't be picking us up tomorrow because the power steering is broken on the truck." I said, "How do you know?" He said, "Daddy called and I answered the phone." I said, "Okay, I will deal with it, but you know that Daddy can't send messages through you right?" He says, "Yes. I saw it was him so I answered."
So, at first I was PISSED because he didn't use the IMs(AGAIN). I DO NOT consider this an emergency. He is giving me almost 20 hours notice. I am going to miss a day of work because I have no one who can babysit for me tomorrow. I KNOW that it is HIS responsibility. Thing is, if he just doesn't show up, then I can't leave. So, I have come up with the best most fair solution. I am going to ask my new IM to send the following message and I would appreciate any input on the topic.
Quote
Bampot, This is NEW IM. I am now going to be the email IM for Scotty. You can still contact me through the same email as it was set up for this purpose only. If there are ever any urgent sitchs, feel free to text me at 555-5110.
I understand that you sent a message through DS10 that your car was not functioning and you would be unable to pick up the children for their visit on Sunday, October 24, 2010 as scheduled. Messages are not to be passed through the children, please refrain from doing this in the future. You are also to refrain from contacting Scotty personally, unless it's an emergency.
Second, due to the fact that you are supposed to have the children at this time, in the future it is your responsibility to find adequate babysitters for the boys.
Third, as your wife was unable to find someone to watch the boys, she will miss a day of work. Please transfer over $XX on Friday for the missed day's pay.
Unless you want to add in that this was not an emergency...like "You are also to refrain from contacting Scotty personally unless its an emergency as this was not." or something, IDK its up to you.
Bampot called DS10 again for the "daily" chat. Of course, the first question he must have asked him was if he told me about tomorrow. DS10 said, "Mommy knows and everyone is working so she has to call in sick(actually I am calling in with no sitter) to work." Then he starts telling him about everything that we did today. ARGH.
I am going to need to tell DS10 again that he is NOT to pass messages along to Bampot. ARGH
Sorry you are dealing with this issue of Bampot using the kids to leverage you. Even to this day after 6 years with my ex, I still deal with it.
As I'm sure you are quite aware that this kind of situation really puts a lot of pressure on the kids. All I can say is it really sounds like your are handling this the correct way.
Concerning the message that you send, you might want to send a separate message re-iterating that he needs to refrain from using the children for message passing and message gathering.
I hope you don't take this the wrong way. Be sure to create a journal of these incidences for future possibilities. Of which of course won't be needed.
Only one small change I would recommend. One addresses clarifying the "emergency" status. I would just say "an emergency involving serious injury or illness of one of the boys".
Only one small change I would recommend. One addresses clarifying the "emergency" status. I would just say "an emergency involving serious injury or illness of one of the boys".
I was trying to figure out what to write. I had, "accident, illness, etc." But I edited it out. I will put it in the way you suggested.
So, today, I took the kids to the temporary site of the Niagara Falls Museum. It is in the Niagara Falls Armoury. I used to go to Air Cadets there. It is a place where they have some historical things that have to do of the war of 1812. A lot of the battles took place in this area. We even went to the Drummondville Cemetery to see the monument to the Battle of Lundy's Lane in 1814. The kids were just soaking up the history. Lots of fun.
Thanx guys. I guess the message is now ready to send. I will let my new IM know. She has been a little busy with Bampot asking a question about the truck insurance and if I disabled it from coming out of the account and now my message to him about this sitch. I guess she has done well so far. I wouldn't know, she keeps it secret. Just like a good IM should.
Well, today, after school, I talked to my IM. She is the mom of one of my son's friends. I now KNOW that she is doing a good job as IM. She said, "I am going to send an email to both of you that you need to stop the sarcasm and bullchit. It's not for you, I just don't want to look like I am taking sides." I said, "But that's the point of you being an IM, you are to filter the cr@p out." The response that she sent from the email was, "He will deposit $XX on Friday."
I so wanted to ask her what he said, but I KNEW that it was better not knowing.
I recommend the standard I was given in regards to contacting each other:
We are to talk on the phone only if someone is about to die or there is blood on the floor. Otherwise all can be handled via email and have it strictly limited to logistical things. It is a recommendation given to me by a parenting coordinator.
You can use the same standard in having him communicate with your IM. Otherwise, there is no need to hear anything about him.
You can�t control how he interacts with your son and it is very damaging for you to lecture your son about stuff his father does.
Your kid is truly neutral in all of this. He has no way to control what his father says to him and he doesn�t have the maturity and life experience to understand what is �passing messages� to you. He has no perspective on what is important and what isn�t. So lecturing your son is bad. He isn�t the problem, your ex is.
So don�t make your son feel guilty for talking to his father. That may not be the intent, but that is going to be the result.
Document your H�s behavior and pass it through the legal system or the IM that he is not to use the children in such a fashion.
But you could seriously mess up your kid by making him feel like it�s wrong to talk to his dad.
HTLD, I understand that you are all for rights of the father. I "get" that. I also know that you have had serious problems with your EX and that you are happily on to a new life.
I DO NOT put my child in the middle. I said to my son, "Daddy is not supposed to pass messages through you, you know what, I'll take care of it, don't worry. I shouldn't have said that to you." Remember, I was SHOCKED because now I had to deal with either finding a sitter or taking a day off of work. Also, that my WH called my HOUSE and not went through the IMs. I can't always be unemotional. I actually wear my emotions on my sleeve IRL. If I didn't like someone, they would KNOW.
To ever imply that I in any way have suggested that my child not talk to his dad could not be further from the truth. I, at times, have told my son that he needs to talk to his father. AGAINST MB, as this may meet a need of WH's. BUT, I KNOW my WH and if the children stop answering, he will stop calling. I am HONEST with my children. I tell my son that he is LUCKY that his father calls him everyday and that he should talk to him to keep a relationship with him. Even telling him that he can call ANYTIME. They have their own email address that they have TOTAL access to. One time, my son wouldn't answer the phone. I asked why? He said, "I want HIM to feel what it is like not to talk to me." My WH hadn't called him in 2 days. More recently, he didn't want to stop playing video games to talk. I said, "Well, then you tell your father." He answered the phone. I WANT my children to have a relationship with their father and I would NEVER take that away from them(barring any safety issues).
LOOK, I am PISSED about my WH not coming to get the children on Sunday NOT because I missed a day of work, but because he now won't see them for 13 days. Did he ask to see them a different day? NO. Does he make arrangements to use WF's car, she does have one? NO. Did he ask if there was a way for ME to get the kids to HIM? NOPE. He couldn't drive HIS truck so that's it, no seeing the kids. What do you think THAT did to my kids? I AM documenting it.
Remember, everyone is NOT you. EVERY woman is NOT your EX. I am NOT using my children as pawns and I do not in any way EVER bad mouth my WH in front of my children. The only messages they hear are the ones that I LOVE their father and that he is having an affair and that isn't right. I would want him to come home and I miss him. Does this mess them up?
Just last night, DS7, asked, "Mommy, how did you and daddy meet?" They have asked about our wedding day, and the day my WH purposed. You see, I talk about WH with them in a good light. He will ALWAYS be their father. He hasn't always been a turd. They SEE a difference in him. Remember, in this sitch HE is the wayward. HE is the one who left THEM. Like it or not, my WH, their father, chose his skank over his own children. He became a selfish man. It is not who he used to be. They can tell. I do my best to be BOTH their father and their mother, because let's face it, 10 minute phone calls 4-6 days a week and 57 hours a month does not a FATHER make.
You�re mistaking what I�m saying. I don�t by any means think you�re trying to keep your kids from talking to your kids or that you�re using them in any way. Saying what you said to your son was wrong, IMHO. Your son has no idea what his dad should and should not be doing and no life experience to know when dad is using him to do so or get info from him.
The point I�m making is that you tackle this without saying a word to your son about his father and what he�s doing.
Yes, I�m for dad�s rights, but I�m not advocating that right now. I�m talking about your son getting messed up and being made to feel guilty about talking to his dad when it is his dad that�s being the idiot. Your son, nor you, have any control over what your WH says to your son. Telling your DS that his father shouldn�t be doing something does nothing other than put your son in a position where he will either feel he can�t talk to his father, or will feel guilty for doing so, or will get into arguments with his dad.
Kids get caught in the middle. It�s unfortunate, but that�s what�s happening. What you said to your son puts him in the middle. You�re letting him know that you don�t approve of the way his father talks to him or what he says to him when neither you or your son have control over that.
I�m not projecting my ex onto you. You�re nothing like her. What I am doing is offering you food for thought over telling your kids anything regarding how they should interact with their dad.
I think that you can certainly express your feelings about him coming home and that you love him and that you miss him. There�s nothing wrong with that. But telling your son that his father is saying things to him that he shouldn�t say does nothing. It only puts your son in a bad position.
The best thing to do is to not opine on what his father says or doesn�t say. Control your own behavior and say nothing about your ex�s interaction with your kids. If you disapprove of how he interacts with them then communicate that to him in another way.
But in the end, your H is not a good father by default. He cheated and is destroying his family. By no means will I defend him or his rights. I feel you should have full custody when dealing with a cheater. BUT your kids interactions with him is out of your control, which is the point I�m trying to make. You can�t do anything about what your H does as far as seeing your kids.
You may get upset that he doesn�t see them more, but in the end that is his loss. All you can do is be the rock for your kids and comfort them when they get disappointed about their dad.
I�m saying this to you as a kid who was stuck between divorced parents. My mom use to give her opinion all the time about what my dad would or wouldn�t do. I can�t say that I disagreed with her, but the truth is that I still didn�t want to hear her say anything about him. I was able to make my own judgment on things. That�s all I�m recommending to you.
Now breathe for a second because I�m not attacking you in any way on this. I made plenty of mistakes in dealing with my kids and in dealing with my ex and saying things. I�m offering an opinion that is based on what I learned through my own IC over the years.
I admitted that I shouldn't have said what I did at first. It was a purely emotional reaction and I am prone to them, as I am most definitely HUMAN. I have shown my children that I make mistakes. It is what I do after that matters. I show them that I admit to my mistakes and that I can learn from them and make amends if I have done wrong.
I use ALL opportunities to teach my children how to become productive human beings. They are going to make mistakes, A LOT. I want them to see that we as people need to LEARN from mistakes and try not to repeat them again. And when necessary, make amends.
I NEVER told my son that I was disappointed that his father didn't come and get them. I didn't even make a big deal about it. I don't ever place my feelings on my children. I did stop myself from saying anything that I didn't want my son to hear. I am HONEST with my children about LIFE issues. I am aware that I am a teacher for them. They will either learn how to do something, or how NOT to. I hope that they learn a lot more of HOW to.
I know I and my son can NOT control anything that my WH says. I don't believe that my son feels guilty for talking to his father. I never make it a problem. My children know all about Plan B. They understand that my WH is NOT supposed to talk to me directly. He needs to call/email my IMs. My children even know who the IM is. It was something that was explained to them in the beginning.
I know that my child does not have enough life experience to know when his father is passing a message through him, so I told him. I want him to be able to say, "Daddy, you need to pass messages through IMs." Believe me, it's not a far cry from what my DS10 does naturally. He would say, "Mommy, stop asking me what we ate there, it's annoying." So, I stopped.
As far as what my DS10 says to his father, he has complete control. I NEVER say, "Don't tell your Daddy this, or that." They are free to talk about whatever they want. Although, it is usually about playing video games.
I know how you feel about you wanting to protect your children. It is always hard to see your WS damaging the bond he has with them. I don't think you ever have to justify your reasons for your feelings. You are a GOOD MOM. Know that!
A little story. There once was a XWS that disappeared from her three child's lives for over two months. As time went by the children became more worried about their mother to the extent that their father was at his wit's end. The father called the XILs to try and help. One XSIL flew out the next day. Father and XSIL went through casino and drug infested ghettos talking to total strangers and police, until one policemen gave the address to a possible location. Talked to a person that was living at this location. Within an hour she is meeting up with XSIL and her kids.
The morale of the story is no matter how much I thought she was hurting her kids I could not make her choose her children over her waywardness. I am not responsible for the type of relationship she has with her kids. What I am responsible for is the relationship that I have with my kids.
IMHO, having the expectation for Bambot to have a specific relationship with his children is not very dark. You will never be responsible for that. Let it go. It is what it is. Take care of what you can. BE DARK ON YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF bambot!
The only expectation you can have is exactly what you are dealing with. Plan for this type of eventuality. It will happen again. Are you ready for it?
You do seem to have lots of expectations of him still Scotty and you need to release to the next level of detachment.
You are not referee for him and the kids. You are not thinking of him as much and now....think of him even less often. Refocus to other things when ruminating on him.
When the kids mention something about him, nod your head and say "Umhmmmmm, I hear you honey" and be truly the neutral but stong mommy that is their base for all for the foreseeable future.
..Just last night, DS7, asked, "Mommy, how did you and daddy meet?" They have asked about our wedding day, and the day my WH purposed. You see, I talk about WH with them in a good light. He will ALWAYS be their father. He hasn't always been a turd. They SEE a difference in him. Remember, in this sitch HE is the wayward. HE is the one who left THEM. Like it or not, my WH, their father, chose his skank over his own children. He became a selfish man. It is not who he used to be. They can tell. I do my best to be BOTH their father and their mother, because let's face it, 10 minute phone calls 4-6 days a week and 57 hours a month does not a FATHER make...
Awesome Scotty..
About Dads rights... Well here is a little bit of my experience with this major problem both in society and the courts. First of all it is allways assumed that Dad is the culprit if something goes wrong, and the children are better off with Mom. I think we all agree this is Bullchit, but thats the way its sold to most cops and courts..nuff on that.
I found that while staying in the marriage with a wife who blamed everything wrong with her life on other people, that is was easy for her to take her aggravation out on the kids at times. I found it better for the children that I take the blame for any problems even though she was equally responsible mainly because my wife became so insistent on avoiding accoutability she would just escalate any argument if it was somehow leading to the conclusion that Mom was to blame. So I became the whipping boy so she would not mess with the childrens heads,(like her parents did to hers) as small children.
Its all I could do to break the cycle exept leave, which I would not leave them, and/or file for custody, which she allways made sure she covered her tracks well and cried victim. Because money was allways gone and I never finished school and got a degree, I couldn't really fight the legal system and I knew it. If I left the children would suffer and feel guilt that was not thiers to bear, so I bore it up front.
My plan was she would eventualy come around and get some help, and be accoutable to the children as they got older and could see through the bull, and my gift to the children was a Mom who was well then, as well to myself someone I could work on a marrige with.
The children got older and started to think for themselves. Wife could not handle that they were becoming adults and she did not have all the answers for them anymore. Her hyper-spirituality did not help them because it was so removed from practical living and the children were not at a point where they could understand that anyway. She herself would "Use the grace of God as a lisense to sin" and whenever she screwed up would say stuff like.."It was a moment of weakness", or, blame satan for all her problems. My take was that Satan was defeated and anyone not on board with that chose that crap on purpose and used Satan as an excuse. But I exercised grace allways while waitig for her to see the light as an example to the children that truth and love is stronger than anything in this world. I still believe that, and insist that I live that way.
I took the blame and the crap to keep the children from recieving even more damage that would happen if I pushed the truth, or revealed it to them in an effort to save my own image of myself to them. I don't tell them that, its to me a normal sacrifice, one I pray they never have to endure.
She chose to continue to live in denial. Now I have to deal with the fact that my older children still have a tendacy to sympathsize with their Mom as to WHY she made those choices, not that they were wise choices, but still in the mix a little bit of it being my fault.
If I had to do it again I would do the same thing, anything to protect them from the mess that was my wifes emotional state most of the time.
Here is a prime example: After a reconsilation that occured when I was gone for two years while she stopped drinking, I mean I was GONE.. and she begged and pleaded for me to return after 1 years sobrity...
It was 3 years after when she slipped up bad and went out of state for a two week binge. We had planned a family vacation with the children DD 11, 2 DS 9 and 7 prior to her taking off. I got her to come home while all the time keeeping it all under wraps because I knew where she went and her triggers. Her getting home and in healthier surroundings was crucial and my first priority even though it broke my heart again.
The kids and I jumped in the car and picked her up from the train station on the way to the trip. Now if anyone has ever seen how angry someone acts when they are guilty you would understand what I mean. She was nasty towards the children the whole trip. Not really outwardly but snapping and making them feel terrible at the littlest things. The looks she would give me were caustic, she had wanted to stay home but I insisted she go. She had had a week of me holding her hand by phone and helping her de-tox and we had never had achance to go away as a family, I wasn't gonna let the children miss it.
That night I was at the end of my rope emotionally, we were sitting around the fire and she continued to be nasty and ruin all the childrens activitys, besides shooting darts at me the whole time. I was determined to be the forgiving and broadminded Husband and Father and just take it, but I cracked.
When we were in the tent and I was falling asleep she said something cruel to my midle son that broke his heart and spirit and set me off, I jumped on her and was ready to slug her, first time ever, and then caught myself, but the damage was done with the children, and I have yet to live it down.
They only recall that Dad lost it and most of the time Dad was at fault because of one thing or another. Thats what I allowed and really thats what I taught them anyway. Hold your temper no matter what, and there is no excuse for violence. All I could do was take the blame, as I should have even if I could have escalated the pain they would have felt if I told them why I got that angry. There is no excuse.
I don't make an excuse for my behavior then or try to justify it by saying "she did and it hurt". What it did to the children is more painful to me. They did not know for 6 more years that mom had a problem with substances and as far as they knew most of thier young life things were normal but Mom was stubborn at times. Mom was also good many times to them and functioned towards me better than that example and I emphaize that as well with them allways. They have questions of what happened to her, and the best I can explain is she became a victim of her own fear and denial. I never threatened violence again and allways tried to inspire hope in them as I lived the best example I could for them.
Sometimes we have to make a sacrifice for the good of the childrens emotional health and sometimes they will never see it. Sometimes they see us not in how much we love them and want to give them everything but instead where we failed to, even when that was never our intention. Sometimes we never have that relationship we wanted with them, or show them the example we so wanted them to see, or emulate in thier lives.
What matters is we never leave them, and are willing to die for them, even if that death is who we wanted to be for them in example, and who we beleived we should be ourselves inside, and that includes our own egos and self image.
Scotty, I think you have done an awesome job of being sensitive to your childrens needs. They are entitled to the truth, and the truth is Bampot has complicated thier lives for no good reason. They will be affected by His actions, and those actions don't reflect Love in my book, or many others either.
Because that is his primary responsibility towards them, learning what it is and loving his wife should be his first priority. If he sometimes looks bad or you say he is wrong to the kids is totally justified. Kids know normal and and fair,they will have to deal with people not being normal and fair all their lives, and they will remember this also. That you might occasionally say something that can be construed as negative towards Bampot pale in your patience and love for him, and they know that.
Your standing so strong in Plan B and for insisting on real love for yourself and kiddos will live on in your kids. Remembering the beautiful times with them as they ask about them is such a sweet testimony of what is good and wholesome in life, and only fair and they understand that towards Bampot. They will never be convinced that you don't love Him, they know better.
I know that I need to let go of the relationship that they have with Bampot. I have been a work in progress with it. I am mostly out of it. I don't ask DS10 if he wants to answer anymore. I don't tell him that he is lucky that his father calls him, he already knows. It's like the lessons I teach them about telling them about my upbringing. I also get them to watch foster parents plan commercials so they understand that they should appreciate what they have.
I don't have expectations about what Bampot will do anymore in regards to his relationship with his children. I realized that it was really affecting me. Does it bug me that he doesn't call them that often? Sure. But not like it did before. I know that he broke promises to them. And I know that he will continue to break more. It is still going to affect me. It just is.
I am making improvements. Telling my DS10 that HE needed to tell Bampot that he didn't want to talk to him, was my way of letting that go.
I let my children make up their own minds about people. I have a different relationship with my family than the other people in my family do. It just is the way it is. I know the same will be true of my children and I am okay with that. I ask them about how they came to their conclusions and how they feel about things and I never tell them that they are wrong about it. I am just curious about how THEY tick.
So, in conclusion, I know that I am doing the best I can. I don't keep my children away from Bampot. I talk about the past with them because they are curious. It doesn't hurt me. It is my history and THEIRS. I talk to them about it the same way I talk about their births. Which of course involved Bampot. Is it wrong to tell them that Bampot cried when he first saw DS10 or that Bampot was the one who told me that DS7 was a boy when no one else said anything? If it is, I am willing to be wrong. I am grateful for the memories and life that I had with Bampot BEFORE the A and I am not going to throw it all away because he became a selfish man. I don't hold on to those memories but they are a part of me. Like them or not, it is what it is.
I guess that's the phrase of the day today, "It is what it is."
Thanx for looking out for me, even you HTLD. You all made me look into myself and make changes that will better my life. I also see all the changes and good I have done so far.
..So, in conclusion, I know that I am doing the best I can. I don't keep my children away from Bampot. I talk about the past with them because they are curious. It doesn't hurt me. It is my history and THEIRS. I talk to them about it the same way I talk about their births. Which of course involved Bampot. Is it wrong to tell them that Bampot cried when he first saw DS10 or that Bampot was the one who told me that DS7 was a boy when no one else said anything? If it is, I am willing to be wrong. I am grateful for the memories and life that I had with Bampot BEFORE the A and I am not going to throw it all away because he became a selfish man. I don't hold on to those memories but they are a part of me. Like them or not, it is what it is.
I guess that's the phrase of the day today, "It is what it is."
Yeah Scotty, dead right on. "It is what it is" is way better than "Everythings everything" IYKWIM.
Memories give us our hopes and dreams. Cherish them. The day my oldest was born I was in Virginia Beach, Va. And hours and hours of labor he was here in this world. My very first child. Weeping with joy and happiness. I was a Father. My life from before was over and I was reborn.
When I went outside to get some air there was a light snow dusting on the ground. A momentous thing for me since I grew up in the desert of Southern California. I look at him becoming a man and become filled with pride, but I always see the little child that I held in my arms soon after he was born.
I've been selfish, wayward, and renting for most of my life, but it always come back to my children. No matter what I do on this planet there will always be a part of me that will be here. I always want them to pass Dad stories onto their children. Hopefully funny and nice ones instead of dull and not so nice ones.
Today it is what it is. Today I am what I am. Tomorrow who knows...
I admire what you�re doing and how well you�ve been doing. I merely wish to offer food for thought. Believe me, there�s plenty of things I look back on and regret that I did with my kids while dealing with all the emotions of the mess that is brought on by divorce. It sucks.
I merely wish to offer you food for thought and advice based on the lessons I learned through years of therapy.
I am doing okay. I never did get your email addy. You wanna try and get mine? I am friends with PrincessMeggy on FB. If you have a FB account and you have her as a friend, we could connect that way. Otherwise, you could ask the mods for my addy.
So, today, being the 1 year anniversary of my finding this WONDERFUL place, and also being the first time that Bampot stayed out ALL night, I decided to let Bampot see me. I dressed up, bought heels, and even put on makeup. I waited for him to pull up with the kiddos, and then I walked out. The bos saw me and said, "Mommy, whatcha doing?" I said, "I am taking you to aunt's house where grandma is going to watch you, Mommy is going out for a bit." Bampot looked at me and then didn't. WF wasn't in the car(she hasn't been for a couple of weeks, so the kiddos tell me anyways). I got into the car, and so did the kiddos, as Bampot drove away, he beeped 3 times. DS10 said, "That's weird, he doesn't beep. That must have been for YOU Mommy." HAHAHAHA Kids.
DS10 was sitting in the back seat of the car all the way to my sister's house saying, where are you going? I kept saying, "Out." Then I said, maybe I am going out with a friend. He said, "Who?" I said, "You might not know this person." I seriously had no plans, except one, I needed some FOOD. Then DS10 said, "Daddy and Evil princess beep(that's what they call her) are going to a Halloween party and they are dressing up like Bert and Ernie from Sesame Street(Hot HUH? ). I admit, it does hurt me a bit. Bampot HATED going to parties and he NEVER dressed up. What the heck happens to them that they do this so out of character? Not really asking, just throwing it out there.
So, I dropped the kids off. I went to Wendy's for a salad. And now I am home with all of YOU.
DS10 also said to me, "Daddy asked if you still work at WORKPLACE." HAHAHAHAHA. I know why he asked. Yesterday, Workplace messed up my pay and it didn;t get direct deposited. It usually goes into the joint account. Well, I had to get paid in cash. Then, I depostied into my other account. I also have set up for my paycheque to get put in there permanently too. Might as well. Bampot doesn't need to know how much money I get paid. I am only going to transfer over whatever needs to be there for bills.
DS10 DOES understand that he isn't suppose to send messages from Bampot. He said, "I know Daddy is suppose to send message through IM but he wants to know if we need to be dropped off early tomorrow." I said, "Daddy sent a message through IMs before about tomorrow. I am going by that." ARGH. He caught me off guard but I really didn't know what else to say.
So, in short, that is how I am today. Actually, I am pretty darn SPECTACULAR today. I have been thinking about what my life was like 1 year ago today. I am HAPPY that I found this place. You guys are the BEST.
Who says bambot still likes going to parties. Just picture what happens to someone who is coaxed into doing something they don't want to do. Do you think him and Evil princess beep are POJAing about going to a party?
That's what I was thinking. There really wasn't any thought about it though. I didn't know about the sexy hot ERNIE costume OW was planning. On the way home fro my sister's house, DS10 says, "Daddy said he needed a bald cap." Oh what a HOT couple. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't advocate frequent breaks in Plan B and I already know that I am gonna pay for this one in a couple of days. Thing is, I was having the most horrible day on Thursday while I was at work. Things were going wrong and I had THREE different people ask me about Bampot and how he was. I had to tell them about the affair and that he left and lives with OW. Even had two of them say, "But he loves you and the boys so much." ARGH. It is hard to hear. I figured I may as well let the feelings coincide with each other.
So, I am going to do something for ME again to get over this. What to do? What to do? Hmmmmmmm. NO NOT, I am NOT getting a pedi. NO ONE is touching my feet. YUCK.
OMG Scotty . laughing so hard I am gonna lose it. That was so sweet, so awesome, I am so proud to know you though this place we both know is awesome.
He had to be Bert, of course.. Kids call her evil princess, LOl.
This is so awesome on so many levels, I don't know what to say. Grats Scotty, your an awesome lady. Bampot does'nt know what hit him yet.
I don't wanna be inapropiate, but tell me you looked so good that you know why he was beeping the horn, even if you suspect it was all about him being "supportive" and all that manly" I know how important it is that I support you" Bull.
So how long have you been planning this scotty? You.. You.. EVIL Genius you.
...I don't advocate frequent breaks in Plan B and I already know that I am gonna pay for this one in a couple of days.
Just go back to dark plan B like you were dear, You let the message be clear, you will do fine without him IF nesessary. I am sure that, in his mind, he has realized at some point that OW is not as miraculuosly happy now that he has commited to her, as he thought she would be, and maybe he is not Gods gift to women. Men and thier foolish egos.
Thing is, I was having the most horrible day on Thursday while I was at work. Things were going wrong and I had THREE different people ask me about Bampot and how he was. I had to tell them about the affair and that he left and lives with OW. Even had two of them say, "But he loves you and the boys so much." ARGH. It is hard to hear.
Yeah what do they think love is anyways?
I figured I may as well let the feelings coincide with each other.
What do you mean by that, I am confused?
So, I am going to do something for ME again to get over this. What to do? What to do? Hmmmmmmm. NO NOT, I am NOT getting a pedi. NO ONE is touching my feet. YUCK.
My guess is watch a romantic comedy, 50 first dates is sweet. Have a great weekend.
Ever see "What about Bob?"? All I can think of is that line he sings.."Your death therapy is GENiusss" to the tune of "happy birthday to you".
Can you see the correlation scotty? If you saw the flick, dreyfuss thought he was Gods gift to the therapy world, and Murray was just a real person who needed to be needed. It was poetic justice what happened to dreyfuss.
Oh well, maybe its just me, but it stands to reason and seems so obvious that in your case..."What was intended for evil, turned out for good" for you.
Brings tears to my eyes when I think of how you are growing and seeing a freedom even greater than you ever saw before.
I am doing okay. I never did get your email addy. You wanna try and get mine? I am friends with PrincessMeggy on FB. If you have a FB account and you have her as a friend, we could connect that way. Otherwise, you could ask the mods for my addy.
Standing on top of the edge it feels like it's going down Everything stays in my mind feeling in a daze on the ground Feels like it's gonna give life's to hard to live anymore I think I've had enough things too tough I'm out the door
All in all it's just another day now You're falling down What you gonna do Standing on top of the world tonight No ones looking back at you
Stand tall It's going on It's going on It's gonna be just fine You're holding on Holding on today
Things don't stop and the others announced they're moving on Salt & tears in the minds in the mouths of a bad decision Too late for another mistake it's bringing me down With all your faults it isn't your fault what's going on
All in all it's just another day now You're falling down What you gonna do Standing on top of the world tonight No ones looking back at you
Stand tall It's going on It's going on It's gonna be just fine You're holding on Holding on today
So you lost yourself So you lost your way Found life through someone else But you threw it all away
All in all it's just another day now You're falling down What you gonna do Standing on top of the world tonight No ones looking back at you
Stand tall It's going on It's going on It's gonna be just fine You're holding on Holding on today
Time's rolling on rolling on today It's going on Going on today
I am doing okay. I never did get your email addy. You wanna try and get mine? I am friends with PrincessMeggy on FB. If you have a FB account and you have her as a friend, we could connect that way. Otherwise, you could ask the mods for my addy.
CP-Operation See the BS has been in the works since late August.
The feelings coinciding thing was because I am already going to deal with the emotions from having those 3 people in one day ask me about Bampot, I may as well deal with the emotions of a sighting at the same time so I can move forward.
You see, being in Plan B, when you are dark, you aren't always thinking about your WS. Even the SMALLEST thing can bring them back to your mind though. Then ALL of your emotions come back. I could hear the smallest thing about Bampot, like his voice through the phone when DS10 is talking to him, and I could cry for days thinking about what he is doing. Even hearing about the Halloween costume and party has affected me. THAT is why I always advocate Plan B being as dark as night. You get stuck in your thoughts.
DrH tells you that part if the reason that a BS goes into Plan B is to protect the remaining LB$ for your WS. I can see why you need to stay dark. Anything that you hear/see will play in your head over and over again, removing more and more LB$ from your bank. And with there being no deposits, your LB$ will become dangerously low. Now, on one hand, that is going to happen eventually anyways, hence the 2 year timeframe, but it does no good to the chances of M R.
Also, CP, I think you have it wrong about Bampot. I believe that if Bampot were asked why he beeped it would have NOTHING to do with ME. It would have been that he was just saying "Bye" to the kiddos. And that very well could be what it is. It was DS10 that said that it was for me since Bampot hasn't done it in the past. It could become his new "thing." I am not even thinking about it. Focus needs to be on moving forward.
So, as I said, I have been thinking about Bampot and dressing up for Halloween. Remember, we started dating when Bampot was 18. He NEVER dressed up before. I ALWAYS do. He HATES to go to parties. I mean HATES to go. Sure, when we first started dating and shortly after we were married, he would willingly come to parties with no complaint. He was doing something for the person he loved. I can see that he would do that for OW. It just goes AGAINST who he IS. And to dress up as a couple, all be it not a sexy couple, that really bothers me. Where is Enlightened_Ex when you need to say something(J/K)? See, this is something that I KNOW that if Bampot were to return, he wouldn't change for me. This would be something that he had done for OW that he won't do for me. Now, I don't wish to get my thread locked so please don't argue it here, I am just stating what my thoughts are. That's what I use this place for. When I get the feelings out, I can move forward.
ARGH. I will move forward. Kiddos are still going with Bampot today and I have a day off. They will be home early so they can go Trick or Treating but I will have some time on my own. I am going to go out for lunch with a few friends and catch up on some housework. Then I will get dressed up, I am being a witch, and we will go out. LOVE the time with the kiddos. Memories that will last forever.
I would not argue with you Scotty. I understand what you are talking about also with the behavior thing. My wife would never ride on a motorcycle, and because it was really no big deal to me, and kindof a damgerous activity anyways, we never did together.
I used to ride when I was younger, again dirt bikes mostly even though I had a lisense for street, I advocated and enjoyed dirt bikes because they were more fun and less chance to get seriuosly hurt because trees don't drive 70 and text with thier phones.
When there would be an opportunity to borrow someones bike and ride occasionally I would ask my wife through the years "Hey wanna go for a ride?!" Ya know, bein together so many years and looking for something akin to a different exciting experience together. The answer was usually a scowl and I chaulked it up as a tease towards her. It seemed she would never ride, no biggie in my prioritys anyway.
Then she would go four-wheeling with her brother after getting drunk with him? Jeez, I couldn't even get her to go out in the snow and drive in spinouts in parking lots..
Then of course. when she hooked up with Mr. Wonderful. The coke-head manwannabe. He had a bike, and she went riding with him, Lol , well like i said, it really didn't make much of a difference to me, heck I wasn't impressed with harleys or the biker lifestyle, and this guy was one of those.
But it did make me ask her why she rode then. She said "Well its something he enjoys so..."
I sure hope Bert and Ernie are just friends. Had thought of them like the old timey tv couple "the odd couple". But bert? Hmmmm. maybe?
Wayturds do crazy things. Mostly it is whatever makes their life most exciting. Could be riding a motorcycle. Could be spending their family $ in vegas, like my xwayturd did, spent over 20k in a weekend yet refused to pay his cs for the previous two months.
Never wonder what is happening on the ws mothership. That place just muuuust be scary. Like Halloween every day and no stop from the insane self gratification.
Thanx guys. I don't obsess (much) about what they do and don't do in affairland. And with having young children, I hear things that I wouldn't normally know. It was more proof that wayturds don't act like their usual selves when they are in an active affair. I understand that, intellectually. Doesn't make me less angry about it though.
Yea Lex, that's what I was thinking too. That they are trying to go as "roommates" and I have heard the stories about Bert and Ernie. I think it is funny too for OW because she was sooooo open sexually with EVERYONE. She had the about you section filled out on her facebook with things like, "My interests are shopping and SEX." You know, things that any guy would DROOL over because she is so open sexually. So, dressing up like Ernie wouldn't have been my first choice. And bless my friends, one said, "Ernie would be an improvement, she's FUGLY." HEHEHEHEHE Friends make me smile.
So, had lunch with my friends, went shopping and now, I think I will take a NAP. It's been a hard day.
I thought Ernie was appropiate for her cuz he acts so clueless, but still runs the show. Then Bert just trys to reason his way out and Ernie gets his way no matter what.
Bert thinks hes responsible too. The odd couple, well, IDK, and the gay couple thing could be used I guess. Bert and Ernie have allways been to me a lesson in communication between two personality types, didn't think gay had to be added to it, but it could.
To me she was a good Ernie because she is in control, and Bert is running clueless. Thats what I thought.
Originally Posted by Scotland
... I think it is funny too for OW because she was sooooo open sexually with EVERYONE. She had the about you section filled out on her facebook with things like, "My interests are shopping and SEX." ...
Gee Bert.. I am just trying to have fun ya know??? Wanna go to the park?
Yesterday, she got up the nerve to post. There were 2 posts to her and they told her to D. She feels like she is alone now. I am not capable of helping her alone and I was hoping that she could get some of the same type of help I received. She doesn't want to end her marriage ATM. Could she in the future? Sure. She isn't there though. She wants to learn MB and apply them to her sitch. I am giving a shout out and asking for help to guide her to her goal. Thank you.
I appreciate all of the help and support that I have received and continue to receive. I just feel like an infant in MB terms and I am not always confident in my advice. I figured that if I had her post and I posted to her, it would keep both of us on the MB track.
Thank you MB. I didn't mean to offend you or anything. I just KNOW that Jealousy has been at her wit's end with what to do. She doesn't want a D. Might she in the future? Could be. Right now though, she wants to try to save her marriage. I know that there are differing views on what marriages people should recover, but even DrH himself has stated that he doesn't know which marriages can be saved and which ones can not.
I forgot that she said she would be away tonight, so please don't take her silence as someone who isn't listening. I sent her a message on FB to let her know that she has a BUNCH of AWESOME posts. You guys ROCK.
Tonight, Bampot called DS10. I hear DS10 say, "But I don't WANT to let you go." Then, "Fine, okay, good bye."
He says, "Daddy hung up with me because I was eating but I didn't want to. I say, "You could always call him back when you are done." He says, "I don't want to." I said, "Okay."
Then I am sitting here and I realize, I AM DOING IT. I am living without Bampot. I have been doing it for almost a year. AND THE BEST PART, I HAVE BEEN FINE. Some moments were GREAT, others HORRIBLE, but for the most part, it has been OKAY and that is the best I could expect transitioning like this.
I have had some pretty bad days, but I made it through. I want to thank you all for that.
Here's looking forward to a bright future.
BTW, only because the children have mentioned it, WF has not been coming in the car with Bampot in 3 weeks. Not that I care, I am just keeping this story up to date. Okay, I thought about it a couple of times, as a thing that made me go, "huh?" But I moved on from it.
It was just a moment when I was sitting here, TV on, children sitting beside me on the couch and it HIT me. I am okay. Every little step that I have taken have amounted to a lot more than I ever imagined. I never thought, a year ago, deep in Plan A that I would feel this way TODAY.
My life is no where near where I want it to be, but it is definitely not where it was, and for me and my family it is BETTER than it was.
Just the other day, someone thanked me for being so "passionate" about things. I was like, "Huh! I have always thought I was opinionated. Passionate is BETTER."
I even have found JOY in some things, especially every moment that I have with the kiddos, except when they are driving me nutty
Ya, Plan B is somewhere no one wants to be BUT it is the best place/plan to be in if given the situation of a wayward spouse (after a decent plan A).
and
there IS magic in it. Magic that we would never have touch us if not given this very bitter pill. Magic of finding out what we are truly made of. Magic of self respect. Magic of self defining moments.
Yes reading, I sure DO. And, when you are in Plan A suffering, you can NEVER imagine feeling OKAY ever again. It definitely takes TIME. AND it is good to change small things and see how quickly they add to something more.
I always was in awe of single mothers. I could NEVER imagine how hard it was. Now, I have been one. And I have a greater understanding that you just do what you need to. When no one else is around YOU are the responsible one. I could be angry(and sometimes I am) with Bampot because he left me ALONE. Sometimes, I even feel sorry for him. He doesn't get to be a part of their lives everyday. He doesn't get to be there when they learn new things. And the longer he is gone, the less he knows about them. That is HIS choice and something that HE will need to deal with. I am making the best life for my children that I possibly can. In the process, I am also making the best life possible for ME.
Thanx guys. And DrH is a GENIUS. I haven't said it for a while.
Then I am sitting here and I realize, I AM DOING IT. I am living without Bampot. I have been doing it for almost a year. AND THE BEST PART, I HAVE BEEN FINE. Some moments were GREAT, others HORRIBLE, but for the most part, it has been OKAY and that is the best I could expect transitioning like this.
I have had some pretty bad days, but I made it through. I want to thank you all for that. laugh
Here's looking forward to a bright future.
I often just read parts of your thread Scotty; when I am feeling particularly down. I look to you for inspiration because you have done it; and you have done it so very well.
Thanks for all of your sharing, advice, and support!!!
Yep. A Plan B, correctly executed, is always successful. It preserves love in the betrayed spouse's heart if the unfaithful spouse returns whole-heartedly to the marriage, committed to a recovery program. It teaches the betrayed spouse how to live without the unfaithful spouse if they don't return, and also ensures that the betrayed spouse can leave the marriage with no regrets if the unfaithful spouse fails to do the right thing.
... I AM DOING IT. I am living without Bampot. I have been doing it for almost a year. AND THE BEST PART, I HAVE BEEN FINE. Some moments were GREAT, others HORRIBLE, but for the most part, it has been OKAY and that is the best I could expect transitioning like this....
Grats Scotty..never had any doubts you would come out of this healthier,
Today, while I was at work, a lady told me that she has NEVER seen me look better. She can see the sparkle in my eyes. Then I said, "Really? I am actually very tired and sore today. Thanx." If I look good on a day when I am feeling horrible, I must look AWESOME on good days. HEHEHEHEHE
Sent the boys with Bampot yesterday. They come home. They were wearing hoodies. I notice that DS7's hair isn't in his face. They got haircuts. It was funny because they wouldn't let me get their hair cut. I forgot how much DS7 looks like Bampot. DS10 is showing his own sense of style by the cut he chose. It is short on the sides and back but long in the front.
On another note, a much less important one, OW still isn't coming in the car for drop offs and pick ups. I only know because DSx2 tell me.
DS10 told me yesterday that OW didn't go anywhere with them and that she didn't even talk to them all day. I don't know how someone does that to children. Not that I want them to like her, but I always wish for my children to be treated well. What am I saying? She has NEVER treated them with respect. She had no problem with her side of tearing their family apart.
DS10 also told me that he doesn't like going there. They are not allowed to play. If they bring toys over(LEGO, Nerf Guns, Silly putty, etc ) they are told that they need to leave it in the car. I told them that I was sorry that they didn't have fun over there. I also told them not to be afraid to tell their father their feelings. To this, DS10 said, "I HAVE, he just doesn't care." Then he said that it isn't that he doesn't want to see his father, it's just that they don't do anything fun and Bampot keeps telling them he is going to take them places and he doesn't. I told him I am sorry that he has to deal with that. And then I gave him a hug.
Ran into someone else who knows Bampot and told him about the affair. Apparently, the grapevine has been working, he already knew and he was living in Ottawa(8hours away) until last month. I almost didn't recognize him as he had lost 140 pounds. He looked amazing and he commented on my weight loss too. He told me that the next time he sees Bampot, he will give him a piece of his mind, I told him to go for it.
This is today's grieving affirmation email, from the mortuary:
Quote
Make a Promise to Yourself - Day #53
Do you truly believe a renewed and joyful life is possible for you? Perhaps your grief is too fresh, your hurt too intensely felt for such a belief to be more than a fleeting thought.
It is possible though; you will find joy again � if you make the commitment to seek it out in the small moments of the day. Those small moments will be as seeds in the garden, and soon they will multiply in number. Life�s garden will once again be bountiful.
Go ahead. Make the promise to yourself. After all, your loved one would want you to live your life fully, deeply and, joyously.
Quotation for the Day "When a man takes an oath... he's holding his own self in his own hands. Like water." ~ Robert Bolt
I just wanted you to know, and anyone else reading your thread for support/comfort/inspiration ...
This is today's grieving affirmation email, from the mortuary:
Quote
Make a Promise to Yourself - Day #53
Do you truly believe a renewed and joyful life is possible for you? Perhaps your grief is too fresh, your hurt too intensely felt for such a belief to be more than a fleeting thought.
It is possible though; you will find joy again � if you make the commitment to seek it out in the small moments of the day. Those small moments will be as seeds in the garden, and soon they will multiply in number. Life�s garden will once again be bountiful.
Go ahead. Make the promise to yourself. After all, your loved one would want you to live your life fully, deeply and, joyously.
Quotation for the Day "When a man takes an oath... he's holding his own self in his own hands. Like water." ~ Robert Bolt
I just wanted you to know, and anyone else reading your thread for support/comfort/inspiration ...
It Get's Better
Make a promise to yourself, and keep it!
I love this Pep. It is true Scottie that your life is only going to get better. I am honestly very surprised he has stayed gone as long as he has. However, you will be ok even if he never comes home.
When I think of where I was a year ago compared to now....well, it makes me want to weep with joy. Some days are so dark you think you will never see sunlight again. Sun does return though....and one friend told another this recently....'there will come a time when these days and this pain will not even be brought to your mind.' I take great comfort in that.
I know you'll appreciate this. I got a call from the pharmacy saying that a prescription is ready for pick up. I hadn't called in a prescription so I asked who it was for. The pharmacist said "D!cK" and I asked what it was. He said "antibiotic ointment." I gave him [censored]'s cell and said to use this number from now on.
I have such mean thoughts of D!ck having a burning infection on his -- well -- d!ck. Serves him and her right. Hope it's very, very contagious!!!! lol
SW, I know that these moments will be but blips on my radar when I am older. I heard someone say, "We are made up of both the good and bad experiences in life, but we are defined by the choices we make regardless of those experiences." I think I AGREE.
Smileygirl, you are. You will become stronger. Keep your head held high. Go girl.
I know you'll appreciate this. I got a call from the pharmacy saying that a prescription is ready for pick up. I hadn't called in a prescription so I asked who it was for. The pharmacist said "D!cK" and I asked what it was. He said "antibiotic ointment." I gave him [censored]'s cell and said to use this number from now on.
I have such mean thoughts of D!ck having a burning infection on his -- well -- d!ck. Serves him and her right. Hope it's very, very contagious!!!! lol
Scotland, I�ve been meaning to pop in and tell you want I meant by the �mean� comment on Harmony�s thread.
As you know, I took a fair number of hits and kept coming back. Even the ones I thought were mean-spirited didn�t dissuade me.
The posts that I found most demoralizing were the ones where people said they weren�t going to post to me anymore. I remember one in particular where I put my head down and sobbed thinking I was so hopeless and irreedeemable that it wasn�t enough that someone was giving up on me � they needed to tell me they were giving up on me.
I was in a terrible state � TERRIBLE � and that message hurt the most.
So that was what I was reacting to on Harmony�s thread. She may not have the same reaction to that message that I did though.
SB, if you read through my thread, you will see that about 10 days in, Pepperband pretty much told me the same thing. I NEEDED that. BUT that wasn't why I did it to Harmony. Harmony was telling people that were telling her things that were not, "There there dear." to get off of her thread. I was telling her that I knew that what I had just posted was not going to make her happy and before she had the chance to throw me off of her thread that I was going to go off myself.
You see, I was ANGRY with her. Especially when I read that she had told OM about this place. Do you know what that means? There are people who would LOVE to tell our Wayward spouses about what we are doing here. This place could be LOST for MANY of US BSs. Then where would WE go? What would WE do? I was so angry over that. I felt like she had just sent the fox into the henhouse. I was SCARED. Now do you see why I would react that way? I think I was actually quite tame.
It really didn't bother me about what you wrote to me on her thread. And as you see, I didn't cut and run. Even if I didn't post to her, I still would have read and routed for her well being. The only people that I ignore are the posters who are in an affairage(I am NOT going to help an affair LAST) and people who are abusive on the boards to the other members, especially the vets.
Ya know, when you first got here, you were just like most of us BS's....scared, hurt, confused, and all the other emotions infidelity puts on the Betrayed Spouse....
Then you learned....
and grew.....
and blossomed.....
You became the "Lighthouse" for Bampot and your marriage.
But something else happened...
You became the "Lighthouse" for YOU
and each and every BS who has walked in here since then....
I wish I could tell you the ending of your story....
I wish I knew how it ended....
But then again, all I have to do is see how you handle each and every day....
SB, if you read through my thread, you will see that about 10 days in, Pepperband pretty much told me the same thing. I NEEDED that.
I am old and sometimes I am crabby. I have "wasted" a lot of my time with heart-felt generous posts to people who never intended to listen. I like to weed those non-listening folks out sooner rather than later. I do it for my benefit. I've decided I'm worth it.
I did the same thing with the non-married woman who is calling her live in BF (that she cheated on) her "spouse". She insulted MY 29 year marriage by saying it is "just a piece of paper". Until she changes her tune, I will not waste my time. But, I do wish her well. I do not wish her pain. I wish she had more wisdom than she has AT HER AGE !!!
Anyone who comes to a site titled MARRIAGE BUILDERS and then proceeds to insult married people .... has a bigger problem than others refusing to post to them.
HEHEHEHEHE I laffed at that Pep because I get MAD MAD MAD about that too. Not even just on here but IRL. My friend says, "It's the same thing." I respond with, "You're not married, so how would you know?"
HEHEHEHEHE I laffed at that Pep because I get MAD MAD MAD about that too. Not even just on here but IRL. My friend says, "It's the same thing." I respond with, "You're not married, so how would you know?"
I DO know. I was in a fourteen year relationship prior to marriage. It was sick.
I've been married for 29 years. It is NOT the same.
STB4, I am HONOURED(yea I used a U in there) to be in the same group as Not.
Okay, so I have been thinking about this since SW wrote it. I believe that there is a reason that Bampot has not tried to some home and MOST IMPORTANTLY it is because I pray for it. You see, when I a praying, I ask for Bampot to come home when he is ready to follow MB and meet the conditions that I have for recovery. Until he meets this, I don't want him home.
Okay, now there is something else I was thinking about. I know I am in Plan B. I want to do something. Not necessarily something that I am even going to know happens.
My MIL sent me a message the other day on FB asking how the boys and I were holding up. This is the second time she has asked me that. As far as I know, she is the only person in Bampot's life, pre-A that he still talks to. I told her we were doing as best as can be expected. I was wondering if I should go more in depth into it. I thought about writing a more in depth message in the hopes that she will not accept OW and that she MAY step in to have a talk with her son. I do NOT know if she has talked to him, I only know what she told me before, that she wouldn't get involved. I would not even KNOW that she does anything NOW, I just want the best chance that I can get her on the side of good rather than being SWISS.
Tell me if you think I should let it lie. Just something I thought about. It was all of this talk on Limbo's thread about not wanting the OP in your children's lives even if your marriage didn't recover. That is ABSOLUTELY true with WF.
I would think, a good strategy of Plan B is to keep people close to you who can be either supportive of your Plans, and/or useful to your Plans.
MIL ... seems like she is a decent woman. Befriend her even more. Do a random act of kindness towards her. Without asking her to do anything for you.
A. It's a good thing to be kind. B. Your good will toward MIL will become a wedgie in Bampot's bum.
Do not bring up OW with MIL. Talk about your current life. The boys. Your hopes and dreams. OW is a non-topic. Call her and brag about the kids. Call her and brag about yourself. Call her and ask her for a recipe. Call her and ask for a "girl date" "just for fun" and assure her that you only want to enjoy her company and that her son will not be a topic of conversation.
I wasn't going to talk about Bampot or OW AT ALL. I would have actually asked her NOT to talk about Bampot, if she brought him up. Hmmmm, I think that it is time I asked her over for dinner. You see, MIL has NEVER been here. I think it is about time. It wasn't that she was not welcome, she just never asked and Bampot never offered. She came by once, but Bampot was on his way out and only let her in the driveway. It was AWFUL and I have always felt badly about it. I think it will be after I have decorated for Xmas and I get the 40in TV up.
Awesome advice, Pep! Scotty, if I had it to do over I would have worked to get my MIL on my side. Instead she chose the side of EVIL and allowed the OW to befriend her. I became the ENEMY. OW/OC and her other children were invited to their home. I was cast aside and my niece/nephews became "attached" the the wh*re who was f*cking my husband...their UNCLE!! This all happened while the A was active, yes his ACTIVE affair partner/wh*re was a welcome guest in my MIL/SIL's home while me and my children were not.
While I am playing nice now I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive them. My niece who is 17 still likes and looks upto the OW! It is so disgusting.
By asking for some small favor from a person, you're likely to dispose them kindly toward you in the future. Ben borrowed a book; you can do it however you like. But by making it something very small, they force themselves to decide they are doing this favor because they like you, not because you bribed them or some other reason.
That's why I always recommend, during exposure calls, that you ask the person to give you their advice. This gets them disposed to help you much more than just explaining to them about the affair.
Doing a Plan B when you have children sure does leave some holes open eh?
DS10 was talking to Bampot tonight. He tells him about our day. I got 2 cheques in the mail. Doesn't DS10 tell him. DS10 only knew because he went and checked the mailbox. Oh well.
Then, DS10 says, "We are going to a Christmas party? Will we get presents?" ARGH ARGH. I bet it is their work Christmas party which Bampot would NEVER go to before. He would say, "I don't like to see most of those people AT work why would I want to see them afterwork?" I was upset. What if OW and her D11(I can't call her DD, I have heard some of the things that she says and does to DS7 and although it is not too bad, she isn't very nice either) go? They are making it all normal at their job that they are one big happy family. TURDS.
Then I thought, "Who cares? If he does ever pull his head out of his azz and come home, he WILL be quitting his job." Besides, my kiddos will get to have a fun day.
Got me thinking about Christmas. I can almost bet that Bampot and OW are going to go to MIL's house. Just venting. I WILL know, unfortunately, as the kids WILL tell me. I am starting to prepare for it.
There. venting all done. Now I am off to dye my hair. Grey hairs are popping out EVERYWHERE.
BTW, asked MIL over for dinner sometime in December. She is SUPER busy, so we gotta ask in advance.
Also, asked her to get me photocopies of patterns for Baby blankets for BIL. MIL still talks to him. SIL is currently 5+years and 2 kids into A on him and he has a new GF, who is pregnant.
Oh yea, I almost forgot. My mom is still totally wayward. She still talks to FF(OM). My dad knows. And she wonders why he says that they are still separated. WAYTURDS SUCK AZZ. Haven't said that in a while.
..Then I thought, "Who cares? If he does ever pull his head out of his azz and come home, he WILL be quitting his job." Besides, my kiddos will get to have a fun day...
Lol, well I have had some grey hairs since teens. Now Im all gray. Well, the girl who cuts my hair says "Grey is the new black, Richard Gere is still hot!" OMG youth is wasted on the young
HAHAHAHA. I kept seeing you guys write, "Gray" and I was like, "Am I seriously spelling THAT wrong. And then I realized, it's how you guys spell in the States."
I started getting grey hair when I was 16 years old. At 19, I started dying my hair. My Dad was full silver, and now WHITE at 51. I always told my mom, who would make fun of me for having more grey hair than she does, that at least I can dye it.
I had a rough night last night. DS10 wasn't feeling all that great. Then I woke up with DSx2 BOTH sleeping in my bed. I didn't even know that they were there. It has caused me to be a bit "crunchy" this morning. Hopefully no one gets in my way.
Nope Chocolate brown. It is as close to my.....ahem, "natural" colour. HAHAHAHAHA
As far as I know, DS10 was feeling better.
I went to work today and got compliments on my looks. DON'T WORRY, IT WAS ALL FROM FEMALES. I was wearing a bot of makeup since I felt tired and my face was showing it. Guess the makeup did its trick.
Then, as I was leaving work, in my leather biker jacket, with my new hair and makeup a girl said, "Wow, Scotty, you should get separated more often, you look GOOD." I knew she didn't mean it to be mean. It was the kick start but not the reason I keep it going.
..I went to work today and got compliments on my looks. DON'T WORRY, IT WAS ALL FROM FEMALES. I was wearing a bot of makeup since I felt tired and my face was showing it. Guess the makeup did its trick. ..
Lol, well, I have a theory that women dress for women anyways..no wonder the old guys used to describe make-up as "War paint"
Its like when dumb and sleazy guys go out to bars, and think they are fooling us when they say, "I picked up this girl,," All along what he did was make himself available, and cater to some fantasy if he could, and not say anything to screw it up. Selling something that someone already was looking to buy, well, doesn't take much talent there. Women ussually know what they want, and do the choosing in the Bars, and they have "beer goggles" on too sometimes.
So scotty how does it feel to be able to know you are still an atractive woman and your choices reflect a great character and depth? I feel sorry for any guys who try anything cheap with you lol.
You gotta tell us if it happens, we will look up in the sky to see if they round the moon in orbit after you give em a firm boot in the butt. Deal?
So Scotty, you're 14 months out from D-Day. Obviously you don't want to share your targets for when you'll end Plan B. But are you getting your legal ducks in a row if your husband doesn't perform a cranial-rectal extraction within the next 10 months or so?
I know that you don't want me to be STUCK but DrH does say that I should only file for a D if I actually WANT to be D. Where I will be in 10 months is something I will deal with IN 10 MONTHS.
I never thought that I would be at the place where I am today 10 MONTHS AGO.
And for an accurate count, I am truly just shy of 12 months since DDay of the PA. I am 3 YEARS out of DDay of an EA(although I didn't have MB and was gaslighted until I found this place). It has been 14 months since I got the ILYBNILWY speech.
I get the idea that you are trying to help me. I am taking my TIME healing from this. What I do and when will come to me when the time is right. I know what I need to do.
I still have WAY TOO much love left for Bampot at this point to even think about a D. If he files, I will deal with it. He can file for a D on my Bday, since it will be 1 year of separation. I know what I need to do and how to get it done. I am prepared.
Where I will be in 10 months is something I will deal with IN 10 MONTHS.
Thanx PM.
I AM past the live minute to minute, but I am not thinking that far into the future yet. I am thinking about what is going to happen at Christmas and New Year's, and making plans for those days. And that IS an improvement over last year. As long as I am making progress and moving in the right direction, I am doing what is right for me and my family.
It's much prettier than "Stubborn and pigheaded." HAHAHAHAHA
Call it what you will, someone who fights for what is right is a real toughie in my book, and thats a compliment, also what I feel a real Man is.
Passion is what keeps me motivated too. In all my motivations that I would fight for in my life, my wife and family was where I stood the strongest in my convictions, and if I had anything to fight for, it was them.
Funny, I am the kinds guy who crys when I watch saving private ryan, and even when I try to tell a touching story to my kids, but everyone says I am a tough old guy, and intimidating cuz I look them in the eyes, and tell it like I see it.
Toughie is a complement in my book, and yes to me its strong and passionate about life and what makes it good to be alive. Without that, where would the passion come from anyways?, and what good is strength without useing it to fight for those good things?
My grandaughter of 3 is allways looking at me and trying to figure me out. I have dreams of being that crazy old stubborn grampa someday who, "just doesn't understand", and she doesn't bother to argue with. she allready knows when I say no its no use crying about it.
But I play with her like I am a kid too, and find everything she does just as important to me as to her, and let her know it. I spend two days a week with her, and its the most important thing I do in my life. Children are IMO, the most important job we can have. I will have a tea party with her on the front lawn and love doing it, then when I leave and do something menial and small in the big picture, like install a turbo on some guys car, or swap an engine, well, those things are not really as important are they?
I have a lot of respect for the job that most women do or are saddled with of taking the role as primary caretaker for the kids. I allways told my children that what Mom did was just as important, maybe more so, than what I did for a living, because they were more important and what I did was for us all anyways. My family allways came first, and what my passion was about, and why I had to be, lol, "tough"
I still have WAY TOO much love left for Bampot at this point to even think about a D. If he files, I will deal with it.
This just made me smile. This demonstrates the very center of the MB plans. KNOW THY SELF ... and apply the plans accordingly.
We fellow MB-ers, as interested/concerned/helpful outsiders, offer our version of what the BS "should do" based on the MB plans, while NOT always based on the BS's current love bank balance.
I LOL when I read a very first post to a newbie MB-er ... "Go to plan B immediately" ... ??? WTH? Interestingly enough, this is often written by an enthusiastic FWW with good intentions, but no real working knowledge of what the Plan B emotional costs are for a BS who loves his/her WS. Especially when there are children to consider.
It's EASY for those of us who not only do not love the WS but actually hold the WS in distain .... to offer up advice like: "File for divorce" or "Plan B right away, like yesterday" or "Throw the bum out".
Scotty, this is why your thread gets so many hits. Your strength of mind and spirit.
I trust you Scotty, to know when you are ready. You are exactly where you need to be. Protected from the adultery as much as possible.
That is the real purpose of Plan B.
When your love bank balance is low enough, you might decide to file for divorce if Bampot has not already done so himself. Or, you might be comfortable enough to wait for him to file. Because you can. Because you know yourself.
The BEAUTY of Plan B is seen in Scotty's strength, her self protection, and the fact that she still has love for her dumbazzwaywardBampot.
We may not love him, but SHE does. And that is to be respected. Because, Plan B helped her preserve that love.
Thanx Pepperband. For the first time in a while, I CRIED.
But it wasn't because I was sad. It was because what you were saying was TRUE.
It IS hard to go into Plan B at first because the BS DOES usually love the WS. BUT, it IS the best thing. That is why DrH is a GENIUS.
Just today, a man that I have known since before I met Bampot, came into my workplace. He said, "Hey, do you remember me?" I said, "I do but I can't really place the name. I know that I know you from cadets." He said, "It's (NAME). I work with your husband too. I have been working from home for the past 3 years though."
I said, "Oh, so you don;t know then? Bampot is having an affair and he left the boys and I last year, just before Christmas and he lives with her. Her name is WF." He then said, "She works there? Oh wait, I remember her. But I thought she likes black guys(she even said this to me once as a defense for WHY they WEREN'T having an affair)." Then he proceeded to tell me some things about her and her "friends." Apparently, they troll for married men. AH-HA. Of course, once again you guys were RIGHT. He doesn't have any example of someone specific, and I didn't ask. He was talking to me about her and Bampot. He kept saying, "But Bampot loved you so much. You guys have been together FOREVER. He is so smart. He is quiet, how did he even meet her?" I explained. It gets to a point where it is like I am talking about someone else's life. Then I explained how I would reconcile with him, without HER. He said the, "Once a cheater, always a cheater." I told him that I would not go into detail, but I am doing a program that was online and created by a man who has saved THOUSANDS of marriages and specializes in saving marriages after affairs. I explained to him that I don't talk to Bampot as part of these plans.
He wished me luck. He told me that he has seen Bampot a few times this past year, when he would go into the office, but that they just say HEY. I told him to feel free to say whatever he wishes to him now.
It didn't throw me for a tailspin. I may have Bampot on my mind more often than usual in the next few days, but it is okay.
Now more on MY Plan B. I DO still have love for Bampot. Originally, when I was told to go to Plan B, I felt like I had enough love in the bank to do a longer Plan A. I wouldn't have lasted much longer without LBs. Funny thing is too, while you are in Plan B, you feel like you COULD do more Plan A. I HAVE questioned myself on if I did a good enough Plan A. Then I re-read my thread from that time, and my journal. I am CERTAIN that I did an EXCELLENT job. I also know that I was in PAIN then, and I wouldn't have lasted much longer without TRUE harm. I am a perfectionist though(when it comes to me following rules), so I see where I could have done better, but I instead use that towards helping others with their Plan A.
I don't know where I will be in 13ish months(the minimum end of MY Plan B). I don't know how I will feel then. I DO know, however, that Plan B is a godsend. That I needed Plan B, and still do. I am FOREVER grateful for MB, DrH and THIS forum. I cringe when I think about where I would have been without it.
Keep reading everyone. I am glad to share my story with all of you. Let's see where this life takes me, shall we?
I don't know where I will be in 13ish months(the minimum end of MY Plan B). I don't know how I will feel then. I DO know, however, that Plan B is a godsend.
Hmmmmm......I think you just shared the time line for your PB. If you've told before I missed it.
I am with you Scotty...and everytime I hit my date I have moved it up so far, reevaluated...I just figure that Ill know in my heart when it will be time, ya know?...I have NO desire to date anyone, so I feel whats the rush?....I am just enjoying the time with my DS right now and feel I still need some work on me....
Realized this morning, after I woke up from a dream where Bampot and I were driving around talking, that yesterday was the 1-year anniversary of DDay for the PA. I didn't even think about it at all. BUT, it was one of the worst days I have EVER had at work. I missed the bus, because it had been re-routed for the Santa Claus Parade. Got a ride from my mom, who then proceeded to complain about Bampot letting DSx2 miss the parade since they haven't ever missed one. Customers gave me attitude, employees were cranky, my replacement didn't show up and it was BUSY. All around a pretty awful day.
Then, DS10 comes home and tells me that he was sick. So, a restless night taking care of my kiddo. He's still sick this morning and is crying because he doesn't want to get up and go with Bampot. Can't blame him, I don't want to go anywhere when I am sick either, but I have to go to work. It is times like these that I get the most angry at Bampot for leaving us. It's times like these that I hate Plan B. Otherwise, I could call and find out how DS10 is doing. Bampot is a TURD.
Off to work, hopefully I have a better day than yesterday.
(((Scotty))) It's a lonely club were in. You can't really say to your cranky customers "take it easy on me, today is the anniversary of D-day." I don't think they would know what that means really.
Anniversaries are something though. You didn't think about it, but I wonder if it was in the back of your mind? As you know I've moved on from Marriage, but the anniversaries still linger. Nov 22 was one. Christmas eve is another.
I still marvel at your absolute conviction and strength of mind and spirit Scotty. I can say I think I would still be in Pln B had XH not filed for D and would have been looking to you for guidance. I hope you had a wonderful weekend with your DS's and continue to inspire everyone on here!!!
Realized this morning, after I woke up from a dream where Bampot and I were driving around talking, that yesterday was the 1-year anniversary of DDay for the PA. I didn't even think about it at all. BUT, it was one of the worst days I have EVER had at work. I missed the bus, because it had been re-routed for the Santa Claus Parade. Got a ride from my mom, who then proceeded to complain about Bampot letting DSx2 miss the parade since they haven't ever missed one. Customers gave me attitude, employees were cranky, my replacement didn't show up and it was BUSY. All around a pretty awful day.
Then, DS10 comes home and tells me that he was sick. So, a restless night taking care of my kiddo. He's still sick this morning and is crying because he doesn't want to get up and go with Bampot. Can't blame him, I don't want to go anywhere when I am sick either, but I have to go to work. It is times like these that I get the most angry at Bampot for leaving us. It's times like these that I hate Plan B. Otherwise, I could call and find out how DS10 is doing. Bampot is a TURD.
Off to work, hopefully I have a better day than yesterday.
I hope it was better trooper. Your post reminded me of something, a mindset, a conviction if you will, that kept me going in my marriage, and truthfully, kept my wife going when the kids were young.
It IS all about the innocent little children sometimes, even when things are not good between the adults, the children must be cared for, and protected.
I won't speculate WHY I did not make enough money, lets just say I was always struggling to get by, while I promised the children I would someday have a job/career that would give us all the comfortable things life can offer, and time to spend with them which was my biggest concern and desire, to protect and provide them a good life. My wife used to live that way too, and never showed her inner fears, at least not to their face. But to mine, she was not happy, and said "if I only had a house" or "why don�t you take me for walks and are always working?� The answer to the later was, I had experienced what it felt like to not be respected, and the most respect she showed me was either..
"I'm doing what God expects a wife to do, so I expect he will honor that by giving me my hearts desire, and that is a house and security of one" Then it would fall on me to get one, by hook or by crook, and of course, this hurt, because of the other side of her personality was..
She would talk to me like a guidance counselor, like I had some kind of problem and didn't go out and get one. All smiles and condescending patronizing like I was a child she needed to conjol and encourage. Also, she would bring up God, and if I would just....Very manipulating and insulting really. What had happened to the statements she said a few years ago? About we would be alright even if we struggled with money, we had each other and our family?
I realized she meant well even though it was obvious she didn't think much of me. I also knew no amount of money or stuff was going to fix the relationship. Her values were NOT like mine. She had a problem with her own self esteem, and she would impute God to fix it, but it was her way, not his.
But in that time, there were moments, where we both trusted that we were doing the right thing being together, and I took the role I had since we started the relationship. The caretaker, the understanding guy, the man who also wanted a house and to work less and be with his wife and family more. During those times we would pray for those things together, and she would open up about her fears, and I would try my best to remove them, build her up, sell myself and re-exclaim my dedication to our family and those things too. I would tell her how I dream of someday taking her to the biggest resort I could find, and we could know we made it. Sometimes out of the blue she would come to me and do something so sweet and supportive, it would make my cry. Like writing me a note and putting a lipstick kiss on it and putting it in my lunch. She would call me and tell me she missed me, and how proud she was of me.
Then out of the blue, she would disappear with some story, for a couple days, leaving the kids either with me, or arranging babysitters. Ussually to party somewhere, because she had to live it up, and after all, I wasn't working hard enough, or smart enough, for her, obviously.
The point is, the kids never saw it, and when they suspected something was wrong, it got covered up. The best they would get out of me was, "Mom went to help so-n-so, and even though I don't agree with it, she is free to do what she wants, and you should tell her how it makes you feel when she gets home". Revealing that she was a two-faced liar to me, or leaving and making them feel abandoned by BOTH of us, because the children did not see that side of her, and never expected that from a Mom who loved and cared for them when she was around them. Well, that would have torn them apart.
Sometimes Scotty, we must show how to love even when another adult is really messing up. That is the thing they need most, is our example. As you walk the boys though this time, you have been a shining example for them of right and wrong, love and forgiveness. Regardless of how Bampot tears you up inside, it is clear that you have a great capacity for love, and I know they see it in your actions. Knowing Bampot is an adult, and they are little kids, teaching them about responsibility to others where it really counts will mean someday, when they are older, they will ask more questions, that will be difficult to answer without revealing Dads mistakes. It would mean a lot if Bampot could explain his issues, and take responsibility for his actions, but I am confidant the Kiddos will do fine with you as their Mom. They can love and even forgive him, but they won�t respect the disrespectful, or Him, till he respects himself, and you.
I pray this time is over soon for you. I know you love the stubborn Bampot for good reason, and wrapped up in that must be something good and decent about him. When his fantasy is over, and he still wakes up and sees himself in the mirror again, and he realizes he belongs at home with you. I am sure he will realize what a mistake he made. Lets hope he is not to proud to admit it.
Thanx for your post CP. YEsterday was a better day at work. DS10 came home, walked in the door and proclaimed, "LOOK I'm NOT sick anymore." He was bouncing off of the walls the rest of the night.
I got a message from my IM today(it was actually sent yesterday but I didn't check it). It said, "How did DS7 get that scratch under his nose?" I sent back, "He has a runny nose and was rubbing it." SERIOUSLY? Things happen to kids sometimes. I know it looks awful but other than taking care of it, there is nothing I can do.
OMG, my DS nose looked like that everytime he had a cold...until recently, I think he doesnt rebel against blowing his nose as much anymore....but at 7...forget it, it was like I was asking him to clean his room or sumthin..hahahahahahaha.
Gosh, I mean after all this crap these waywards put their kids through and now hes concerned about a scratch on his nose...if he knew his kid better he would not have had to ask....He would know!
I know right. DS10 would lick his lips and chin to the point that it was raw. I would have to put cream on it.
I asked my IM when he sent the message. She said that he sent it at 230pm yesterday. It said, "What is the scratch on DS7's nose? I have asked him and he won't tell me." I asked DS7 if Bampot asked him, he said "Yes." Then I said, "What did you tell him." He said, "I told him that I didn't know." And rightly so. because he is SEVEN. He doesn't realize that when he rubs his nose with his shirt(because he REFUSES to use tissues) it scratches his face. It actually started on Thursday. It just looks really bad now, because it is bigger.
I got a bit angry about it because it is like he is questioning my parenting. But that would be a DJ. He could just be concerned with his son's welfare.
On another note, I was brought into the principal's office at school today. Apparently, my children were chosen to receive some extra help from donations from the school board this year. I feel a little torn though. I feel like there are other families with greater need than ours. I feel like I should refuse it. My friends told me that it is a good thing and I should accept it. Of course we could use the help, but so could some others. I dunno yet what I am going to do.
Take it Scotty....I agree with CWMI...Dont feel guilty about it...Of course there are others that could use it more, but there is always someone more needy....Doesnt mean you dont need it too or deserve it, ya know?
On another note, I was brought into the principal's office at school today. Apparently, my children were chosen to receive some extra help from donations from the school board this year. I feel a little torn though. I feel like there are other families with greater need than ours. I feel like I should refuse it. My friends told me that it is a good thing and I should accept it. Of course we could use the help, but so could some others. I dunno yet what I am going to do.
Can't fault you for the sentiment. Just consider this however: there is a pretty lengthy selection process for these types of grants/donations. Lots of factors get considered. I would say if you've been chosen, you are the best candidate according to several folks whose job it is to make that decision.
That's the way that the principal said it too. He said that the two teachers had to write something about why our family deserves it and they did an excellent job.
I guess it is something I should accept and be thankful for it. I have just always been one of those people who thinks that people should only accept handouts if they actually need them. I HATE when people take advantage of it. I know I am not one of those people. I guess a thank you card is definitely in the works.
..On another note, I was brought into the principal's office at school today. Apparently, my children were chosen to receive some extra help from donations from the school board this year. I feel a little torn though. I feel like there are other families with greater need than ours. I feel like I should refuse it. My friends told me that it is a good thing and I should accept it. Of course we could use the help, but so could some others. I dunno yet what I am going to do.
You are the best judge, but don't refuse help if you could use it. Its important to accept support and admit we need help. Now if only Bampot would do that..
My DS 12 is special needs. He is in a wheelchair. He cannot speak. He cannot stand. He cannot do anything for himself. He is the most AMAZING young man as well. Through him I have learned some really amazing life lessons. One of them I was taught when DS12 was an infant and in the hospital. My H and I were overwhelmed with everything going on and having two more kids at home. We barely were getting by financially though we were both blessed with jobs and good (thank you Lord) health insurance.
An older couple from our church paid a visit to us in the hospital. As they were leaving they put a handful of cash in my hands and told me when I protested "you need to learn to accept help when it is offered." It was a rather humbling experience that I never forgot. Obviously someone at that school knows how HARD you are working to hold life together for your boys all by yourself. Your strength shines through. Your goodness, love and determination are inspiring to people you don't even know are watching you. Accept the help offered gracefully and remember the gift is two way. They get satisfaction knowing they are helping someone they see as deserving of it. (((Scotty)))
Oh Faithy, you two have made me cry with your words.
I know that this principal D his wife just a little over a year ago. He has two young children, whom he doesn't get to see very often. I dunno the reason they D. I have some thoughts though that he may be trying to help out my children because he understands what they are going through.
Sometimes we give out of our need and even if we are not in a position to, but we just have to because of what is right.
About 1992, I was working and we were doing OK, holding our own, but still with young children DD 6, DSs 4 and 1, and my wife came to me as we made our Christmas prayers list.
We had already bought or planned out what our kids were getting for Xmax. I had boughten a used nintendo 64 and repaired it, and then they all had special things too, so Wife asked me..
" You know so-n-so? (A widow with two small children of her own that we were close to), well there are two things that her DS and DD want for Xmas and they cost X$, she doesn't have any money and they are getting practically nothing, do you think we can help?"
I crunched the numbers, our present list being full with the cost of those gifts too, and came up with the figure of $440 extra dollars to handle it all. All our bills and presents covered, and not being late and hungry for Christmas.
We prayed all together as a family to have extra money for thier family too, the kids too.
The next day, a Saturday, I was getting overtime and the bi-monthly checks came in. I opened mine and expected to find the usual I budgeted with. I found $443 extra dollars.
Having done payroll before in company settings, I knew there must be some kind of mistake, and the right thing was to go to HR and straighten it out. My manager had no idea where it came from, and HR was closed. I would not find out what was going on until monday.
It was the week before Christmas, so we went out and bought the gifts that night because only I could drive around and I figured it was a good cause, and I would pay the company back. After all, it was almost to the penny of our prayer. My wife and I had been back together for 3 years, and things were worlds different now. You don't look God in the face in front of little kids and question something like this. You tell them about it and rejoice. So I did.
When I went into the HR office on monday I was telling the story to the manager. I told him I cashed the check, and about spending it and the prayer, and how I would pay it back.
He said, "Oh, thats yours, remember when you went from a temp to a direct temp? well they hold back two weeks originally for payroll purposes, and that was just catching up"
Maybe the guy thought I was foolish for spending the money on a whim, or as an answer to prayer. I would not have traded that for the world, and would do it again if I could. I needed to help those ppl, and it helped me at the same time, as I was thankful for much.
What an inspiring story CP- brought tears to my eyes. God works in mysterious ways.
Glad you found it so... An inspiring story for an inspiring thread. Ya know when you said "God works in mysterious ways"..I thought of the phrase somebody here had in thier sig line....
"If you want to make God laugh, tell him YOUR plan"
I think there is worlds of wisdom in that when you think about it, and mixed in is realization that our plans, no matter how righteous and good compared to others, or how sacrificial we conduct ourselves for others, preferring them over our own needs, our plans are still not as perfect as Gods.
Just as the freedom we need can only be realized within ourselves, so that freedom others have yet to grasp, as evidenced by thier treatment of others, needs to come from themselves also. When and if we stand on our own, no longer effected by how they treat us, or the circumstances that have befell us, is when we are truly free, even if we ended up in prison before we realized it. I think that is what you hear about from ex-cons who have accepted what they did, or fell into, and now have a free mind. Also from those who have made thier own prison within, and have been set free.
Bon Jovi is critised a lot for, well. whatever reason. I don't think thier music is the greatest or anything, but there is one song and one line that rings true in the song for me. From "living on a prayer". "You live for the fight when its all that you've got" Life is struggle, and if we didn't have that, we would find less meaning, and never grow stronger. The towers and strongholds that exist in our minds sometimes need to come crashing down, and sometimes what we have that we think keeps us strong, holds us back. How can we know what to think about our life when it seems bleak?, and we have given it all? When its all stripped away, we still have hope, and where does that come from? Not from us, but from what God has put in us.
Ok Scotty, lol, I didn't mean to start on that journey on your thread. I just see so much of that strength in you also, and God in your life too. Also, this journey of yours is helping me solidify my convictions also, so I gain strength from it, and I am not to proud to admit it. "Mercy is the mother heart of God". Rejoice in who you are this Christmas season.
Well, to keep my thread as current as possible(since I use this as much as a diary as anything else) I am going to update you guys on some things.
On Saturday night, DS10 was talking on the phone with Bampot. He was sitting beside me. I could hear Bampot talking. It KILLED me. It threw me for a tailspin too. Not that bad, but I wanted to let people know what happens with ANY contact, even indirect. Thoughts of Bampot have been running through my head even since.
So, on to that school A. The WW has been exposed. Her BH has been told. Her MIL talked to me on Saturday and told me that WW has pledged her undying love to her BH and admitted to going to coffee 3 times and ONE kiss(as we all know it is most likely MORE). I told the MIL that I would suggest that this affair be exposed far and wide. Then I told her about this site. It's out of my hands now. I feel so much better now as well.
Last night, I went to my parent's house to drop off my mom's car. When I walked in, my mom mouthed that my dad was miserable. She then tried to talk to me about their R. I think she is firmly in freeloader mood in their marriage. I also believe that my dad is at that anger stage. They won't come on here, or read the books so I have told them that I am unable to help them out. My mom is still completely foggy, but it is because she still has contact with FF(OM). My dad knows. My mom thinks that it is harmless because she is not discussing things about feelings or anything with FF. I told her that it is incredibly wrong. She says that she needs to just be on her own now. I know that it is because she didn't really do anything to change herself. That is her problem.
We got into a discussion about my sitch. She told me that she is CERTAIN that when Bampot comes home that I wouldn't want him home. She figures that it what happened with my dad. I told her that that is one of the important reasons for me to be in Plan B is for me to have enough love left to get through recovery. She doesn't see it. It's funny how someone in that kind of sitch only sees things through the fog and makes everything about THEM. Entitled wayturds suck azz, even when they are your parent.
BTW, we are getting our first healthy snowfall today. DSx2 are LOVING it.
Life keeps moving forward and I am along for the ride.
You are very strong Scotland you should be proud of yourself, I am still only on page 145 of your thread Mimis took up Fri/Sat yours took Sun/Half day today as I had some planning to do.
You are very strong Scotland you should be proud of yourself, I am still only on page 145 of your thread Mimis took up Fri/Sat yours took Sun/Half day today as I had some planning to do.
I am only on page 160 as have been busy with Plan B and talking to DS6 & DS10 and falling around in the snow.
Your WH sounds so like mine, his BS lost her brother 2 weeks before they got together, in a phone call to me in his 2nd week of leaving he said he couldn't leave her as "she has been through a lot" ARGhhhhhhh!!!!
My WH is a very 'needy' 'insecure' person and she is giving him all this care and attention he needed, at times..... not so much so now, they are 3 months on but this is what started it.
Anyway, I will start reading again tomorrow I just wish I hadn't read the last page, not because he is not back but because he is such a numpty for NOT BEING BACK with someone like you.
You will be in my prayers tonight. I started praying recently, it's a new thing I do. It takes a while as i never know whether to say lord/god/tho almighty one so I say them all in the hope SOMEONE is listening.
Stay strong.
I am more determined than ever to stay on this site as I can see how much it is helping you, I will read more tomorrow.
Tilly, thanx for reading. I am happy that you are getting some use out of my thread. It is part of the reason I keep posting.
Decorated the tree today. DSx2 had a blast. They made a gingerbread house last night too. Doing ALL the Christmas stuff. Can't believe it's already December 8th.
I dunno if I am still thinking about Bampot because of the overhearing of his voice on Saturday or the approaching of the Plan B anniversary. Maybe it's a little of both. Also the holidays. Making life and memories for my kiddos.
Okay, now I am putting a disclaimer before this next story. It does NOT go with the MB plans. Tonight, my friend was driving DSx2 and I home from boxing class. Our trainer lives up the street and he got a ride from her too. Bampot called. DS10 answered the phone. My friend started whispering, "Trainer you should talk." Trainer said, "Friend, you are trying to cause trouble." He said a couple of things. My friend and I were laughing, not loud enough for Bampot to hear, but it WAS funny. We got to trainer's house, which is up the street from mine, and he said good-bye to everyone. Bampot did ask DS10 where he was. Ds10 told him that we were getting a ride home. I am sorry guys, I thought it was funny.
Well, I want to let everyone know that I am having a rough time right now. It is the approaching anniversary of my start to plan B. I have been in a bot of a funk. I know I am going to be okay, I just wanted to keep this thread as honest as possible. That way, if there is anyone else out there with the same feelings, they will know that they aren't alone.
I work in a retail store and of course this time of year is busier than any other and the customers are crankier. That doesn't help. Also, the kiddos informed me on Friday that they want Lego sets from Santa(this may be the last year for Santa in our house). Of course the sets they want are $130 EACH. I have somehow convinced them to get $70 ones instead.
Now, being in Plan B with younger children also sucks the big turd. Found out that Evil Princess Beep's car is out of commission and she has been using Bampot's SUV. That makes me so angry. That was MY car. ARGHHHHHHHH
DSx2 also told me that Evil Princess Beep told Bampot about a game and now he plays with them more often.
I think there is also some angst about Boxing Day. My MIL always has Boxing day at her house. Well, I am almost CERTAIN that Bampot is going to take that opportunity to introduce WF to his mother. One big adultery family at home for Christmas. ARGHHHHHH.
MIL didn't actually turn down my invite for dinner with the boys in our home, but she didn't accept it either. She sent me a FB message for one of the patterns and then snail mailed me the other one. Avoiding upsetting people kinda runs in the family.
Well, I am gonna try to get myself out of this funk. I will watch some Christmas movies. I ordered 3 Monty Python Movies from Ebay. Hopefully they will come for Christmas. I will need some cheering up for sure. Although, there's always you guys.
I really WILL be okay, so don't worry about me. Just had to get these feelings sorted out and where better than among you all.
Scotty, I am in a funk too. Or as you said having a rough time. I have been in B about a month and a half longer than you so it is probably partially your anniversary of going to it and partially the time of year. The past week I have had some low swoops of the rollercoaster ride. Sucks.
We are human beings...imagine that! We have feelings and have to deal with them.
I am so very thankful that plan B is allowing me, and I bet you, the ability to be removed from the drama of the affair. I can't imagine being someone not doing MB plans and being sucked into its vortex.
It hurts for us but it would hurt wwwwaaaaay more if we were not in plan B
Thanx Reading. And you are absolutely correct. It WOULD suck a billion times more if we were not in Plan B. I figure it is also this time of year too, although I LOVE Christmas so I didn't want to blame it on that.
Scotty girl, you need to take the advice that you keep giving me. You are strong, beautiful, and full of class and grace. This time of year is hard. But I feel the same as you; I love Christmas and have decorated to celebrate anyway. I will not let the anniversary of D-day overshadow the true joy I get out of this time of year; and good for you to not let your love of Christmas get spoiled either.
I want you to think back to the changes you have made to yourself and your life and now look at where you are. You have grown immensely and are using the natural talent inside to help those around you and on this site. You will continue to grow and shine and you will find your eventual path. I come back to here when I need to hear the truth and it helps me to take a step back and take a good hard look; I get much of that advice from you.
So continue to be proud, strong, smart, and classy; at some point God's plan will become clear and you will be so much the better for it.
Hugs to you scotty, the season, and the sad memories are sure to sting a bit I am sure.
I still miss my wife, not the stupid crap she pulled, or the pain we all felt because of it, but the Woman she was before she fell into her own version of fantasy and fear.
I am at peace with the fact I still love her. I wish I didn't, but the truth is that I do. Life IS getting better, and hope is springing up here and there, but I don't try to forget the love I had for her anymore, and grieve that loss without shame. Its just normal, thats what it is, thats all.
Praying that something great happens for you soon, but in case that doesn't work, do something good for yourself OK? Bless you and yours.
Thanx Guys. Mymissy, you brought tears to my eyes and that just isn't fair.
Still in a bit of a funk and with tomorrow being, well TOMORROW, I am jut gonna try to get through the day alright. DS7 is on his FIRST sleepover tonight. Crossing my fingers that he will be okay. This is the 4th attempt at sleeping over at this same friend's house.
So, this morning, DSx2 are in my bed(they always come in to wake me up and we spend some time talking) and they talk about Bampot. They mention something about how Daddy made a BIG mistake. I ask them if someone is able to fix mistakes. They both say, "NO." I then ask, "DS10, when you broke DS7's sillyband(I HATE THOSE THINGS), what did you do?" He said, "I bought him a pack of new ones." To which I replied, "That is how you fixed your mistake right?" They agreed.
Then I went on to tell them that sometimes, there are mistakes that you can't fix by replacing it. That the only thing that you can do to fix those types of mistakes is to learn your lesson and NEVER do it again. I told them that they would need to apologize to whomever they wronged and change so that they wouldn't repeat the same mistakes in the future. That they could only change the present and their future not the past. I told them that that was what I wished for Bampot, whether he came home or not. They seemed to understand.
Then, DS10 said, "I don't want to go over there anymore." I said, "You need to tell Daddy that." He said, "I can't, he'll get mad at me and put me in the bathroom(the timeout place)." I told him that even if he told Bampot that he wasn't happy going over there that it probably wouldn't change anything. I just thought that he should tell his father. He then said that it isn't that he doesn't want to see Bampot, it's Evil QUEEN(she's been promoted) Beep and her daughter, Evil Princess Beep that they don't want to see. So much for the great big happy family. :P
Just venting a bit there.
I may not be on too much tomorrow during the day, as I have Bday celebrations planned. Going to my mom and dad's house so the kiddos and nieces can bake me a cake.
Not, could I please get your contact info? I think I need to take you up on your IM offer. I have some people on FB already and some people have my email addy. Mod could give you my addy too.
Not, could I please get your contact info? I think I need to take you up on your IM offer. I have some people on FB already and some people have my email addy. Mod could give you my addy too.
I notified the MODS .....If you don't have in a couple of hours, post on here to let me know.
{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}
I imagine you aren't feeling like it right now, but you really are one of the amazing women I have ever has the pleasure of knowing.....you really are....
Loves ya lil' sis....Not
Ps..in case you haven't seen..Sol is about to embark on some heavy Plan B'ing with you.....
Just got home from my parent's house where I was pampered with not having to make any meals. My DSx2 and DNx2 baked me a cake in the shape of a heart. They decorated it with star sprinkles. I had a GREAT day. I even slept in this morning. WOOOOHOOOOO.
My mom called me at 1043am and when I answered, she said, "WAHHHHHHHHHH, that's what YOU were doing 35 years ago." HEHEHEHE
Well, it wasn't an easy day, but it WAS much easier than I anticipated.
Hope everyone is finished their shopping. I only need to wrap ALL of the presents.
I realized the other day that I know WAY too much that happens in affair-lalala-land through stories my kiddos tell me. See, I didn't really realize it since I don't ASK them. DSx2 came home from their visit with Bampot and DS10 says, "Mommy, can you believe it? They don't have a Christmas tree. They didn't celebrate Chanukah, and they had Christmas presents. There wasn't a tree there last year either. That's just WEIRD." That was when I realized that I knew too much. I think I need to explain to them that while I want to hear about their feelings, I don't want to hear about the other things.
See, I always knew that Bampot knew too much about what I do because I overhear DS10 tell him EVERYTHING about his day to day life. I also knew that I knew TOO MUCH, I just didn't realize HOW MUCH.
I was also thinking about something else. I have been thinking about the advice that you guys have been giving me(always trying to make myself better) and I remember that you guys told me that I should dress up whenever Bampot is coming to get the kiddos and that I should go out more often. This is so DSx2 will tell Bampot. Doesn't this go AGAINST Plan B? First, I shouldn't be doing ANYTHING with thought to Bampot. Second, NO EXPECTATIONS.
I KNOW that I am supposed to move forward as if Bampot doesn't exist. I "get" that. I even realize how far I HAVE come in this last year. Personal recovery is VERY important. I AM moving in the right direction. Some thing are just weighing me down still. I will let go of the weights that are tied to me as I realize they are there. I will continue to move forward. I have all of you, MB and DrH to thank for ME.
With your boys still so small, perhaps instead of asking them not to tell you certain things and then they wonder, is this one of the certain things?, maybe get them each a journal.
Whenever they start to tell you too much, direct them to their journal, to either write or draw pictures. That way they still get to document their experiences and have them validated, but hopefully without giving you quite so much detail.
Its a fact that having kids gives us way more info about the other side of the castle wall than we would like for our dark plan B. I,in my case, decided not to ask my kids to censure their experiences for me. I hear what they say and give neutral comments when needed and don't ask questions which would extend the conversation about whatever. I want my children to feel like they can communicate with me. That they don't need to hide stuff (kind of why I think my WH got into his abyss of an affair....the need to hide many of his thoughts as a life pattern).
Anyway.
I think you need to dress nice and really get out as much as possible at this point. Extend your social network so you will be less lonely in the future with or without your spouse.
That is what I am doing.
I do just hang at the home lots of times when the kids are picked up and have solitary, relaxing things to do BUT I also sometimes have friends over at that time to spend time with, talking, watching a show, playing music, dinner. YK? I love it. I had been kind of a hermit during the marriage, following my WH's unsocial lead.
So true. Dressing up and sometimes going out will give YOU a boost, and should it happen to have ripples on the other side of the pond - or not - who cares? It only matters what it does to you, and it will be good for you.
With your boys still so small, perhaps instead of asking them not to tell you certain things and then they wonder, is this one of the certain things?, maybe get them each a journal.
Whenever they start to tell you too much, direct them to their journal, to either write or draw pictures. That way they still get to document their experiences and have them validated, but hopefully without giving you quite so much detail.
Another awesome idea from Neak. Hats off!
Not wanting to stop an excited child from telling you thier storys is hard. After all they are just kids. But pretending certain things don't hurt you is also misleading them. Eventually you crumble.
Putting it down in a journal would be a great idea, like the tree thing, as long as it wasn't an emergency.
I agree that it is a fine line between not wanting to hear the unnecessary things and about Bampot and having DSx2 share the goings on of their days. I will walk that line and learn how to accomplish the closest side to DARK as I can with small children.
About my going out. I go out as often as I wish to. I have friends. I see them everyday at school. I talk to people on the phone and on FB. I am more of a homebody. I was actually like this as a child and I have continued to be like this in adulthood. I am okay with the amount of time that I go out. I also have issue with dressing up when Bampot comes and gets DSx2. He really only comes and gets them when I go to work. I work in a retail store. While we don't have a uniform, we DO have a dresscode. BLACK. Black pants. Black shirt. Black shoes. Fetching. So dressing up when I am going to work, not gonna happen. I will continue this part of my life the way that I have and improve wherever I can. Thanx.
So.....put a bright jacket on over the black, add a few dazzling accessories and ta da...you are dressed up and looking hot. Then when you pass by a mirror stop and admire yourself. Its all for you and will continue to build Scotty's confidence. Who cares about anyone else - right?
Thanx MyMissy, I have been building up my confidence. I have even. on occasion, worn make-up to work to which I get, "Scotty, you look really good with make-up." I then usually say, with a smile and a joking tone, "As apposed to other days when I look AWFUL." They laff and so do I. But really, sometimes I look at myself with the make-up and think that I look dreadful. Sometimes I even think I resemble Mimi from the Drew Carey Show. Others disagree.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF MY MB FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DSx2 woke me up at 630am and by 7, all of the presents were open. They went to their room to put together the lego sets that Santa brought them and have been there ever since. I, on the other hand, have been playing Guitar Hero and now I can't feel my hands and arms.
Well, no nachos for DSx2 for Christmas dinner this year. They had pork and au gratin potatoes(my kiddos HATED it which is why I heard about it, still working on the not telling Mommy things).
So, as I was posting to Meggin, something dawned on me. It was an A-HA moment. I was telling her about how when you are in Plan B, you will HATE the feeling you get when you hear about your WS. Then it dawned on me, THAT is part of how you lose the love for your spouse. They are then associated with something that brings you PAIN. Then you try to avoid that pain and they become something you want to avoid at all costs. hmmmmmm DrH really IS a genius.
I want to give a GIANT Shout out to all of you whom have contributed to MY 2010. What I thought was going to be one of the worst years of my life, turned into a SPECTACULAR year, now that I look back on it. I KNOW I have all of YOU and MB to thank for that.
There is only ONE Bampot, give your head a shake, moment that I want to tell you all about. On Boxing Day(Dec 26th for the people who don't know), my DSx2 went to MIL's for Christmas with Bampot. At 730pm, I get a call from Bampot's cell phone. My heart started racing. I let it go to the answering machine, there was no message. Then, the phone rang again. This time, I answered. It was DS10. He said, "Mommy, just wanted to let you know that we are on our way home." I said, "Okay, I love you." He said, "Love you too." They arrived home, safe and sound, 45 minutes later. DS10 told me that it was Bampot who called the first time, and then said, "Maybe you should call home."
I am so glad that I didn't pick up the first time. Although, I DID have it rehearsed in case it was him. If I didn't just automatically hang up when I heard his voice, I would have said, "Are you ready to remove WF from your life forever? Call me when you are."
Taking the kiddos to my sister's house for New Year's celebrations tonight. It has been a tradition for MANY years. It should be better than last year. I hope I don't cry this time.
Again, Happy New Year to you ALL. And to any newbies, it really DOES get better when you follow the plans.
Happy New Year, Scotty. May 2011 be the year from heaven!!!!
Take care and be safe. Me, too, about not crying this year. I don't expect to since I'm feeling much stronger and much happier than last year.
And God -- if you happen to have some extra time tonight -- stir the pot between all the WSs and OPs out there. A really big, spilling over the sides, NASTY, drag out, call the cops kind of stir. And if we get a call to bail them out of jail -- a -- sorry, wrong number!!
Last night, I emailed Mrs H about some questions I had about the end date for Plan A and why it differs for men and women. It was very interesting to hear what DrH had to say.
So, I have been thinking a lot about WH and my fear that if I truly let him go that I won't want him back. It really is something that weighs heavily on me. I feel like I am getting stuck again and I am going to need to push myself further once again. I always tell DS10, when he is at boxing training, that when something gets easier to do, he needs to push himself again. that is the only way he will get better. Well, I am taking my own advice.
I still find myself dividing things in 4, and there are only 3 of us here(unless you include the dog). When I catch myself doing that, I laff. I usually find that I was in 'auto-mode' during those times. Need to fix that.
Life stresses have really affected me. My internet has been acting up for months. The last few weeks it would come in and out all day long. Very frustrating. I still haven't been able to fix my computer(this is the netbook) to the dismay of DSx2. My oven went kaputz. And tonight, my dryer caught on fire. This is on top of my demolition dog creating havoc with my floor tiles and shower. By that I mean, she pulls them all off. ARGH.
I have let too many things slide in my life recently and I need to get my IRL on a better track for me, and for my DSx2. I am not exactly taking a break from MB, but I won't be as much of a presence as I have been, at least for a little while. The new year made me reevaluate how far I have come and I see ways to improve again. I will still check in on some of my favs and help out with some newly betrayed. I thank you all.
God bless you, your child, and your precious dog and my prayers still to your WH (praying for all of you).
May he pull that head out of his azz before he loses the best two things in his life: you and your child.
With time comes wisdom and greater perspective. I understand how you feel. You've come a long way and it's amazing. I finally read so much of your posts, and wanted to add, you remind me of myself, about seven years ago. But I still pray your outcome is a bit different, however, I can say 100 percent firmly, that without MB and the life-building tools I learned here, I would not have bounced back as I did or rebuilt my life.
No matter what the outcome is, you must know you are an amazing woman. When the time's right, let us know how you're doing. Somebody from Georgia will be keeping you and your family in prayers.
Happy New Year and wish you a year of love, happiness, and wonderful new beginnings.
Scotty, I understand. Some times you just need to take a deep breath and step back a moment. You really are an incredible person and you WILL come out of this OK. You have helped so many others here too. It sounds cliche, but God only gives you what he knows you can handle. Unfortunately for you, you are tough and can handle quite a bit!!
Guys, I am here to confess something and I seriously do not want, nor deserve any responses to this. I want this only to serve as a lesson to others and as a way to keep myself accountable.
As of late, my Plan B has not been as dark as it should have been. I allowed myself to get caught up in my own head. A week or two ago, my SIL tagged me in some pics that also included Bampot. I removed the tags and asked her not to do it again. It sent me in a tailspin, for sure.
I couldn't help but focus on Bampot and the A, even though I KNEW it was wrong. I thought getting away from here for a bit would help. I WAS WRONG. What getting away from here did was leave me with idle time. I just thought and thought about stuff. I constantly talked about Bampot.
On Saturday, I found out that a new co-worker knows WF. She used to work with her and she called her a SL_T. She told me that her bestfriend works where they work and she is going to tell her to mess with them and give them a hard time. I told her that I want no part of it and that I don't want to know about it at all.
Then, my mom was giving me a ride home from work. I got out of the car and she said, "I should stick around and talk to Bampot." I thought she was joking, until she called me at 635 and asked why DSx2 weren't home yet. She talked to him and then told me what was said. It hurt. Then, last night, she looked for her on FB and found her. She told me that WF has "in a relationship with Bampot" on her profile. It hurt me. I don't know why it hurt me, but it did.
I let curiosity get the better of me and I looked at her FB page. I read old posts on her wall. I guess I really must have wanted to torture myself today. I got to see all of their "sexy" "love you" "best boo" and all that other CR@P that wayturds fill each others lives with. I then realized that Bampot had created that profile in 2009 BEFORE I even knew. He wrote messages to her on there BEFORE I found MB. It was DISGUSTING. He also had a FB profile, at the same time, where we were listed as MARRIED. Not a surprise by any stretch. Wayturds are so predictable and NOTHING Bampot has done is out of the ordinary. It is interesting to me that none of HIS family or IRL friends are on that FB.
What this has done to ME though is send me close to Plan F/U. I am SERIOUS. My Taker has come raging out and I am GLAD that I am in Plan B. If not, it would NOT be pretty.
These are things I should NOT have known about though. I am no where NEAR stuck anymore. I am moving QUICKLY to the other side. It could just be that I am so spitting angry and it is making me see RED, or I could have gone below my LB balance.
I thought about plans to get Bampot to come back to me, to "cheat" on WF and then I would say, "So long SUCKER(an F instead of an S)." FULL TAKER.
I am sorry that I let you all down. I am more sorry that I let myself down. I was living life with the love I had for Bampot safely tucked away. I can't find it right now. It's buried under RAGE.
I often think that when someone hasn't posted on MB for a while, it is because they are trying to do it half azzed and they don;t want to get 2x4'd here.
I don't need 2x4's, I already KNOW what I did wrong and why I shouldn't have done it. I have made some of my friends very happy though. These are the friends that didn't want me to recover in the first place. I am sticking to my Plan B, and I am getting darker than EVER. I will protect MYSELF with whatever I have left. I refuse to become someone I don't want to be. That crazy ex is definitely NOT who I want to become.
Sorry MB. I will get DARK again and this time, I am going darker than ever before.
None of this is a surprise, Scotty. The fact remains that with young children you still get a taste of A-land every week. I found that the times I left MB was when I KNEW in my gut there was more and chose to go digging for it. Self destruction to the max, KWIM? Pep wisely told me a long time ago that if I chose to remain M'd while I was most likely in a false recovery than I had to stop looking for evidence. Why? Because I was not going to D and leave my kids to have contact with the OW even if it destroyed me in the process.
I think plan B is a MUCH better way to go. So pull up your bootstraps, tighten down the black out curtains and find something to make you feel really good while this gets out of your system.
BTW, it is ok to feel RAGE against immorality and the unfairness of it all. IT IS OK!!! Just stop looking for stuff, ok? To protect your sweet self is why, not for the wayturds sake.
You're awesomely honest, Scotty, and I appreciate that.
I'm not going to tell you what to do, either, since you already know and are implementing it. I do want to encourage you to avoid judging your future by your feelings now or at any point.
Just protect yourself now, and let the future happen when it happens, in whatever way it happens. It'll be ok.
Thanx guys. I didn't want to do anything today except sleep. Well, that ISN'T what I did. I went to boxing class, I made dinner, I organized my kitchen a bit(a lot more to go )and then I did a little Plan Aing of my kiddos. We played Funglish and Pictureka. I had to MAKE them go to bed.
Even though I had some awful experiences the last few days, I figure that what has really changed in my sitch? Nothing other than ME. It did push me over that hump I was experiencing but in a BAD BAD way.
I liken what MB has done for me emotionally with what boxing has done for me physically. Today, working out ANGRY(which I am CERTAIN I will pay for in the morning), I skipped for 1 minute intervals. For the rest period, my heartbeat slowed and my breathing returned to normal much more quickly than before. The same thing happens with MB. I am much better off emotionally because I was stronger to begin with.
I will NOT go looking for anything else, I PROMISE. I am a person who keeps their promises and only promises things that I are within my control. I wouldn't promise to take my children to an amusement park on a certain day, for example, as the power might go out, or it might rain.
I am on the road to recovery once again.
I didn't leave MB to FIND something. I really didn't. I feel like I left MB and allowed something else to replace it. It was, unfortunately, something that was damaging to myself. I also promise that from now on, when I am not on MB it will be because I am doing things to BETTER my life and the lives of my children.
Thanx again.
And let this be a lesson to anyone who is having problems with Plan B. Stay DARK and you will get better and better.
Ya know when your first words were so humble and apologetic I honestly thought you contact Bampot. It was not at all what I expected you to say. I am truly so impressed with you.
I'm so glad you felt safe enough to post here honestly. That's speaks a lot about you and about your friends here at MB.
We're still behind you.
Well said, PM!
I agree, well said. I know I'm not on much, not hiding but not posting. But you've been there for me, and I appreciate it. You're only human, and to err is human. But now you know, as you once told me, it is better to stay dark.
Oh Scotty, I am so sorry you have had a few bad days; but you should definitely not beat yourself up. We are only human, we BS's have been dealt a horribly unfair blow. But you have already shown everyone and deep down proven to yourself that you are made of stronger stuff than the average person. Be proud of who you are and know in your heart that God has great plans for you, you just can't see what it is yet. Hang in there, go dark, and the ick will start to dwindle. Remember Scotty Rocks!!!!
Guys, I truly don't believe I deserve all the love(but I am taking it anyways). Doncha just hate when your own advice comes back to haunt you(thanx cd)?
I KNOW that I am human, I also knew better than what I did. That is why I am mad.
You guys don't know how hard it was not to look again. I made a promise and I am going to do whatever is in my power not to break that promise.
I prayed long and hard last night and I feel much better this morning. No Plan F/U on the horizon but I know that I am this[] close to it. It is even more important for me to keep myself as dark as possible.
I have some advice for some fellow Plan Bers. When you have those angry moments, write out your conditions for recovery. Believe me, my list grew yesterday. That bar got HIGHER. I hope to retain enough of that Taker to keep that bar up there.
Guys, I truly don't believe I deserve all the love(but I am taking it anyways). Doncha just hate when your own advice comes back to haunt you(thanx cd)?
I KNOW that I am human, I also knew better than what I did. That is why I am mad.
You guys don't know how hard it was not to look again. I made a promise and I am going to do whatever is in my power not to break that promise.
I prayed long and hard last night and I feel much better this morning. No Plan F/U on the horizon but I know that I am this[] close to it. It is even more important for me to keep myself as dark as possible.
I have some advice for some fellow Plan Bers. When you have those angry moments, write out your conditions for recovery. Believe me, my list grew yesterday. That bar got HIGHER. I hope to retain enough of that Taker to keep that bar up there.
Set the recovery bar higher, now thats a healthy idea. Remember they have to jump those hurdles back, I guess that would be my problem, making the hurdles molehills for them.
Your allways gonna bounce back Scotty, and now, you accually know the safty of plan B, and your reaction was more healthy than it might have been a year ago. You bounced back to a safe place of personal recovery, and these months have ingrained where the right place to go is.
It sux when we knew better and did it anyway, Thats the real painful part, when we lose self-control, it was for me anyway, after the long struggle before, but we all can wear down, regaurdless of our resolve. Your gonna be alright, let it go, just a glitch in the Scotty Rocks new radar equipment she has invested in.
I have some advice for some fellow Plan Bers. When you have those angry moments, write out your conditions for recovery. Believe me, my list grew yesterday. That bar got HIGHER. I hope to retain enough of that Taker to keep that bar up there.
You are awesome Scot! As a beginnerPlan B'er, I can tell you, reading your thread gives me that little 'oomph' I need to make it through. Knowing that making mistakes along the way to recovery will happen and being able to overcome those mistakes with self-honesty and grace, like you, will make those mistakes seem much less tragic.
Guys, I truly don't believe I deserve all the love(but I am taking it anyways). Doncha just hate when your own advice comes back to haunt you(thanx cd)?
TeeHee. How much have you lovingly scolded me for something or other? I figured you'd get a kick out of that one. I love how you're raising the bar. You go girl. Stay strong. ((((SCOTTY))))))
I am fine. I told you guys that I would be doing productive things that would have NOTHING to do with Bampot. The first day that I PROMISED not to look at WF's page again was HARD. I confessed to some of my friends so I could get some additional, "What did you do that for?" Then I got people talking to me about dating. I asked them, "If Bampot had died 13 months ago, would you be telling me I should date?" Of course they couldn't answer that.
I have been taking up previous hobbies. I finished reading the third Harry Potter book, I have started a cross stitch birth record for my BIL and soon for my Cousin(they are both due in April) and I am going to start crocheting 2 baby afghans. I also have played games with the kiddos and we've been watching a lot of movies. I am trying to keep myself busy OFF of the computer since that is when I feel like checking up on WF's page the most. It's hard, but I am getting through it.
..I asked them, "If Bampot had died 13 months ago, would you be telling me I should date?" Of course they couldn't answer that. ..
Ah can anyone deny the beauty of a dark plan B, or the clarity of thought from Scotty.
Having lost my wife and not recovered I understand this very much, but even though I know she really screwed up, and I didn't deserve it. It still doesn't change that i was not going to go out and "fix it/me" ,by finding someone else. It just doesn't work that way. Well not for me anyways thanks.
Its losing the whole person, sick or not, that everyone must process in thier own way, in thier own time.
I am just waiting for my friend to give me the next books. I made a deal with her a couple of summers ago. I wanted her to read Twilight(Yes I LOVE those books) and she said she would as long as I read HP. I have seen the first 4 movies and I wasn't really interested in reading the books. After the FIRST page, I was HOOKED. I am glad that I made that deal and kept up my end of the bargain. BTW, my friend liked Twilight too. I would have to say that my favourite series right now is "The Outlander" series by Diana Galbaldon. If you haven't read them yet, I would definitely suggest them.
Looooove Outlander...its been my favorite book for over 10 years...it is so awesome...I have gotten a few of my friends hooked on the series...I havent read them in a while, I think I am going to crack them out now to reread...Havent thought about them in a few years...
Then I got people talking to me about dating. I asked them, "If Bampot had died 13 months ago, would you be telling me I should date?" Of course they couldn't answer that.
Perfect Scotty! We should remember this line to advise other people.
Then I got people talking to me about dating. I asked them, "If Bampot had died 13 months ago, would you be telling me I should date?" Of course they couldn't answer that.
Perfect Scotty! We should remember this line to advise other people.
I know that they mean well and that these people truly do love me. They just don't understand. I wouldn't want to jump into a new relationship, besides the fact that I am still married. I don't understand that. They KNOW that I am not divorced. Why would they even suggest dating? I guess they think of my marriage as already over. Even if it doesn't recover, it isn't over right now. I am taking the time I need to become the person I need to become and I don't need a man to do that. Actually, I quite think that I would be better off to do it without anyone else in my life. Besides, I already have 2 demanding little men in my life already and they are more important than any relationship.
Don't get me wrong, I miss being loved the way only a spouse can love me. I miss having someone worry about me coming home late from work. I miss someone who sees only ME when I walk into a room. I miss someone who couldn't keep his hands off of me(not in front of anyone though because he RESPECTED me too much). Bampot really WAS a good husband and father, BEFORE the A of course. We weren't perfect. We had a difficult time adjusting to parenthood. We were both focused on raising the children and doing what we thought was right. Working hard, making sacrifices. BOY were we WRONG.
As you can tell, I got over my close to Plan F/U stuff. See how quickly your emotions can change? Actually, as of Thursday morning, I just kept on moving forward. DrH says that the man should chase the woman in a R, well Bampot is going to have to RUN if he is ever going to catch up to me.
Also, I don't remember if I wrote this on my thread yet, but the other day I was thinking about the comments that Bampot made on WF's wall. He would NEVER have done that on my wall. At first, I was mad about that(I know WHAT WAS I THINKING?). Then I realized, "Of course he wouldn't do that on MY wall. He respected me more." I also respect myself more than to allow someone to write things like that on my wall. I KNOW that his A is a complete disrespect to me and my family. I get that. I am talking about Pre-A.
Well, I fixed my dryer today all by meself. It is up and running again which is good because we were running quite low on clean clothes. Then We watched a couple of movies. DS10's favourite movie is Marmaduke. It was the movie we went to see for his 10th Bday party.
Also, for some reason, DS10 has only spoken to Bampot Tuesday and Today this week. He said he didn't want to talk to him the other days because he is mad at him. He also doesn't want to go over to WF's house anymore. It is heartbreaking to see, but it is out of my hands.
.. I miss someone who sees only ME when I walk into a room. I miss someone who couldn't keep his hands off of me(not in front of anyone though because he RESPECTED me too much). Bampot really WAS a good husband and father, BEFORE the A of course. ..
I know Scotty, and you have grasped the truth of how Bampot has lost respect for himself, and doesn't see it. I also know you would do anything to help him if he would just admit he needs it.
You are a lighthouse girl. Praying he sees it and can get over himself soon, so he can be a man again.
Yeah your friends mean well, but its your life, and your marraige, with an alien pod who used to be your husband. If he can ever admit he makes mistakes, and this one was a doozy, well what a prize he has in you.
As you can tell, I got over my close to Plan F/U stuff. See how quickly your emotions can change? Actually, as of Thursday morning, I just kept on moving forward. DrH says that the man should chase the woman in a R, well Bampot is going to have to RUN if he is ever going to catch up to me.
Scotty, you amaze me!!! I am really impressed with fixing the dryer!
I look back and think of the woulda, coulda, shoulda's I might have done; I wish I had your strength about 6 months ago. But I am trying to take baby steps forward, so I guess no looking back for me. Whether you R your M or not you have become an amazing person. Bampot has no idea what he is missing out on. I continue to pray for you to have the outcome that will serve you best - whatever that may be. Hang tight, you continue to inspire.
My bestfriend just called to tell me that her father passed away today. He was like a second father to me. We are all in shock still. It was a heart attack. Her mother just had brain surgery weeks ago to remove aneurysms. She is still recovering. My bestfriend also just moved away to be with her H, as he is in the military. It's sad for everyone.
Thanx guys. The funeral is on Thursday and it is also my bestfriend's bday. She changed her FB pic to her dad and I just started crying. I am so sad for her.
And my heart just keeps breaking for my kiddos. DS7's bday is on Friday. He is having a party. BUT, he says he isn't excited. He says that he is sad because he misses Bampot. He wasn't that excited about Christmas either. It really does break my heart. He is also disappointed because Bampot has broken promises already. DS10 still doesn't want to talk to Bampot. He says that he is so mad at him. I don't know what has brought this on now. I hate seeing my children hurting and not being able to do anything to help them.
Scotty, I understand this. My DS15 didn't really ask for anything for Christmas--he really didn't care about it at all. He's got anger and resentment and WH actually thinks "he'll get over it". Um, no he won't because WH has become a person DS neither knows nor respects.
Don't worry H&G, I am around. I read all of the time, and I post when I see somewhere that I can help. It is true that I am not around as often as before, but I need to find balance. Sometimes, we need to take a bit of a break from the boards to sort through our own mess. I have ALWAYS helped others with their problems so I didn't need to look at myself. I have been looking within a lot lately.
DS8 was not excited about his birthday last week. He said that he missed his daddy too much to be excited. After his party, he said that he had his best birthday ever. Bampot actually remembered the correct day this year. Bampot also bought him a cake in the shape of a giant blue Lego block. DSx2 brought home the leftovers, THREE pieces. It was offered to me, I declined. Apparently, Bampot bought it from a lady he works with who also makes cakes.
DS10 has had some real anger towards Bampot lately. It started a couple of weeks ago, when Bampot was making cookies with OWD12 and DSx2 asked if they could help too. Bampot said, "No." DSx2 were very hurt by it. They told me about it. I told DS10 that he should tell Bampot. He said that he is also mad at Bampot for leaving and continuing his affair. He has decided that he won't answer the phone every time that Bampot calls. I have now fully removed myself from their relationship. It's hard because I don't want them to lose their relationship with Bampot, but it isn't up to me anymore. ARGH. I just hope that enough of my DH is left inside Bampot to keep that relationship going.
Now off to read, I got the next 2 Harry Potter books and they are bigger so I gotta get a move on.
Now off to read, I got the next 2 Harry Potter books and they are bigger so I gotta get a move on.
Be very careful with those bigger Harry Potter books Scottie. My OS read the entire "Deathly Hollows" in one sitting...as in, he sat up ALL NIGHT and finished it. (He was in college then, so pulling an "all-nighter" wasn't that tough-and it was summer so he was on break).
Scotland, I love Harry Potter. JK Rowling is single-handedly responsible for my love of the fantasy genre.
I hope Bampot wakes up to the damage he's doing to your DSx2 soon. Have you considered counseling for your DS's? I've encouraged my DS to speak to his high school counselor, but he doesn't want to talk about it with a stranger.
Strangely, my WH seems to be waking up to what he's doing to our DS because of DS's refusal to spend the night with him. He told DS that he would stop pressuring him to spend the night for the time being--that he didn't want him to feel stressed. It's almost as though he's undergone a partial cranial rectumotomy. Maybe he heard the words he was trying to say to DS: "She's nice--you'd like her." and "It (the affair) was the right thing to do but it was the wrong time to do it." He also said, "Don't I deserve happiness?" Hopefully he realizes that his happiness doesn't stack up when compared to the happiness of everyone else, including his children.
My DS has gone through a lot, especially since earlier this month when WH filed for divorce. He missed a few assignments in school and actually told one of his teachers the reason why. DS hasn't really opened up and told anybody about what's been going on, so this is a big step for him.
I read earlier today what you said on someone else's thread about being careful about what you say to your children about the WS. I need to work on this. I always err on the side of saying nice things about WH, but I do sometimes vent to him also. It's tough not having another adult around to bounce my frustrations off. Mostly, DS and I remember the good times (before the A) and laugh about family jokes. We miss WH.
.. Maybe he heard the words he was trying to say to DS: "She's nice--you'd like her." and "It (the affair) was the right thing to do but it was the wrong time to do it." He also said, "Don't I deserve happiness?" Hopefully he realizes that his happiness doesn't stack up when compared to the happiness of everyone else, including his children....
This reminds me of how I was planning to explain my leaving my wife becouse of her drinking problems to my little children. My daughter at the time was only 3 years old, and wife was pregnant for my son, and it was extremely painful trying to get Wife to do something about her drinking and watching both our lives, and our childrens future, go down the drain of what I can only describe as a self-indulgent and desparate sickness.
My Wife had slowed down and seemed to have stopped drinking, she was going to church and thrown herself into that relationship. She had also been praying for reconciliation for us. That had gone on for 1 1.2 years while I was gone, and I had allready moved onto another relationship that I was not able to commit to, because I could not with good conscience. The new relationship was suffering naturally because of that, and I was very confused on what to do.
My wife did not get it that if she would have just went to AA, and stopped being so desparate to reconcile what I knew was our bad relationship that that I might have some faith that she would take care of herself. that any love she had for me was out of respect for herself, not feeling sorry for herself and being out of control. It was painfully obviuos to me that she did not love me, but only a reflection of a dream that I was able to "fix" all the things that had gone wrong with her life. She didn't really love me for who I was, just who she thought I could be in her fantasy. If the fantasy was removed, she would not love me anyways once she realized she didn't need me, never did. It was a two edged sword, but I was trying to set her free, even though I loved her, but I felt that it was the right thing to do. I expressed this many times to her, but she couldn't see it. All I knew was that in order for her to get help, she would have to hate me and move on. There was no middle ground for her, no grey area, and she could not see that her alcoholism was not excused by God as she hoped, not in the reality of the fact it was killing her, and making all her nightmares come true. If I was gone, she would only see her rejection, and would teach my children that I didn't love her, instead of taking any responsibility for her own issues.
I don't want to get into all the details, but I wondered what would happen to my children, if this continued in thier lives. How would anybody be able to explain this to them?
Was it true that I was running away from the responsibility I had to them? They could not figure this all out, they were little children. They love both of thier parents reguardless of thier flaws. They needed to be loved that way too, and a father who would reject thier mother, would reject them too if they were not "perfect". I knew to well what that felt like as a child. My wife was a victim of parents that lived in that selfish fantasy, would I let the emotional abuse continue because I didn't have the guts to stay in the crap with them?
I slept with Her, I married her, I created the children with my wife, and they would have no chance if I didn't return and try now. At least she had stopped drinking, was sorry for what it had done to me, and if the word of God had anything to do with straighting me out in my life, maybe thier was hope in that She would see fighting the effects on what her life had dealt her, and the alcoholism.
My biggest concern was that my children would not have anyone in thier lives that would support them emotionally, that it would scar them, and not allow them to grow as I knew they had the capacity to. As many do, and are so scarred, by thier parents, as my wife was also.
Kids don't care what mistakes we make, they still love us, and they feel more than they think, and see our actions and take it personally. As ill-equipped as I was to handle what I came back to, and with all the mistakes I made trying to recover, I will never regret going back and trying to make it work. They are better off today because of it, and I pray they will not ever have to know what I went through. They still love thier Mom, got to see some wonderful parts of her before she relapsed, and have to suffer enough in that.
I know that you and DS are suffering in what your going through, I pray you find the Grace in understanding and can help your son in that also. I am sure you will.
Fwiw, Scotty, my ds who is 12 has ZERO relationship with his dad (my xwh).
Kids sadly see the truth, and they learn and maneuver their lives knowing this. My ds now considers my H (we married last summer) his dad since he's been there for him the last 3 years, faithfully.
Your wh is trying to delicately balance his two lives and he can't. He can't be parent to her kids, while HIS own children know why those kids are there, it's because of an immoral affair.
Kids are smart too. They see life much clearly sometimes than adults too. More black and white, and less grey. My son knows what his dad has done, sees how his dad messed up another marriage (the ow is now divorcing him) and hates him for it.
His grades also slipped a bit in the first 9 weeks of school this year (when he found out ow was divorcing his dad and that he wouldn't be seeing his half sister as much anymore). But we worked through it, have allowed my ds to open up and talk about things, and just been there, very much there for him. His grades went back up, he's having fun now, and is going back to playing baseball this spring.
Affairs, and addictions, hurt kids. Why? They remove the parent from being a parent and the kids only get a percentage of the parent they once had before. My son got maybe 30% of his dad after our divorce. Now my son wants 0%.
Kids are also smart and they will let the ws know they are angry. Sadly, some ws will ignore it or do as one poster here sadly said "don't I deserve to be happy" give the kids a sappy, poor excuse for their bad behaviors.
Just be there for your sons Scotty! You're doing great.
It's kinda funny how they came home with only 3 slices of birthday cake from the childs' own birthday party. Selfishness of waywards i guess. Kinda low to keep the slices from a childs' birthday cake for themselves.
And my condolences to you for the loss of your family friend.
Actually Peachy, that was all of the cake that was left. And I really wish it would have stayed out of the house. It just brought up too much inside me. And it wasn't a party, it was just Bampot, DSx2, OWD12 and OW. DS10 said later that he didn't even think that OW and OWD ate any of the cake. It was the day after DS8's bday.
DSx2 are not telling Bampot that they are mad at him. As a matter of fact, Bampot called them every night this week, DS10 didn't answer 1 time(Monday he didn't want to, and the rest of the time he wasn't home for the phone call). So this morning, Bampot called at 9am. He only talked to DS10 for about 5 minutes. He told DS10 that he just wanted to make sure that they were okay. So he got his "fix" and then he went on with his other life.
You know (something fun and positive) what I do during the month of ds' birthday? We have the "pick the dinner" night for him once a week. That's always fun.
Sometimes we'll do breakfast for dinner (bacon and belgium waffles), sometimes it's burgers. But that is always fun and makes the birthday fun last a little longer.
What fun things are ya'll going to do this weekend? One more day left
We actually only get one weekend day every 2 weeks together and that was today. We had a sleepover in Mommy's room, they woke up at 7am and came downstairs to play video games. I got to sleep in until 830 when DS8 came into my room to watch TV with me. When it was his turn to play on the computer, I was left to watch TV alone. We watched a movie together tonight. We do movie nights and family game nights. We have fun together. It doesn't make them miss Bampot any less, but I do what I can. They have a PD Day on Monday though. Plans? Clean the house. Sounds fun eh? HEHEHEHEHE
I have ALWAYS helped others with their problems so I didn't need to look at myself.
Don't you also find that helping others reinforces your own understanding of these solid, proven concepts? That's a key benefit for me. (Giver and taker always at work )
Regardless of the reason, I have appreciated your help.
Your words to me about going dark Plan B with my (ex)sister really spoke to me, and I remember them regularly. WWSD? (What Would Scotty Do?) Ha. Silly but true.
As a result, I've had more peace about taking care of me and not being anxious about ... stuff. Which is great because I'm not an anxious person and wasn't enjoying living life with anxiety.
Oh Delta, I am sorry but I laughed when I read your post. NOT because it was funny, but because I say this too, only it is WWPD(What would Pep Do?) She thought it was funny and now I see why. You are welcome.
I do believe that when you teach someone, you learn more about that subject as well. I wasn't only talking about MB though. I have ALWAYS helped others to the disadvantage of myself and to avoid my own problems. I am learning how to find balance now.
I dunno if everyone who follows my thread also read that other thread about the love a BS keeps for a WS during Plan B. Well, it really made me think.
Mulan, you made some EXCELLENT points which actually helped me enormously. I realized that I didn't need to think about the fact that I still had love for Bampot. I just need to accept that I did and move on anyways. It was like a weight was lifted off of my shoulders. Thank you.
MarriedForever, you I wanna kick(in a good way ). I was unable to sleep until late last night because I kept thinking about what you said. I kept thinking about how it was the fantasy of Bampot that I was in love with and not really him. I am examining that. Could that be true? Is that what it is? I dunno. So I wrote the longest journal entry that I have written in a LONNNNNNGGGGG time. I made a list of who Bampot IS. The first thing on that list was, "Liar" and the thing is, I can't even tell you WHEN that started. Did he ALWAYS lie to me? Was NOTHING a truth?
Thank you also to everyone else who took time out to help nudge me in the right direction. You guys ROCK.
Wayyyy back when -- in the first month or two of you posting here, you said something that really struck me. And yanno, its something that I have heard from many other BS's. But with you -- there was such a emphatic suredness behind your voice, that it really struck me.
You said that if you and Bampot divorced, you would NEVER date or marry again.
At the time, it made me sad for you. And I sort of hoped that it was just the emotion that you were going through at the time - and that eventually you would see that you could have a great future including a loving relationship regardless of your status with Bampot and marital recovery.
But maybe you need to revisit that.
Do you feel that you are still in love with Bampot, simply because you do not recognize the possibility of anything else?
You have learned mad-skillz Scotty. You could be a kick-[censored] wife -- even if Bampot is not your husband. Do you recognize that?
I am in NO WAY advocating that you give up on Bampot, or that you should get out there and date. I just think this might be something for you to ponder.
Lexxxy, I have thought often about those things as well. I KNOW that I could be a spectacular wife to someone. I still only see myself as Bampot's wife though. The funny thing is that I AM starting to see that I could possibly be in love with someone else. A very small possibility, but it IS there. That would be something I could think about WAYYYYYYYY in the future. It is something I remember reading about 6 months ago, about having to change a buyer into a renter.
I will admit that I am saddened by the fact that I have learned about MB and how to have a happy, spectacular, romantic marriage and I have no one to have it with, but I am CERTAIN that I can help others achieve their own. In my weakest moments, I sometimes wish that Bampot would come home so we could experience that type of marriage. But then I remind myself that he isn't here. He is with OW and he has changed.
So onward and upward. I keep trudging on and I make my life the best it can be. I honestly feel better than I have in a LONGGGG time.
scotty i don't post on here all that often. I read your thread because i wish i could of been as strong as you are. I do believe you are a very strong woman. I know that with a young child to have completely dark plan b is very hard. I have a 3 year old who LOVES her daddy and talks about her adventures there when she comes back. I am not sure how to tell a 3 year old no at this point but try not to take.
As for the love for a ws.... it does dull over time. I am now 3 1/2 years out from DDay and over a year and a 1/4 since the divorce was final and i can say that the love i have left is for the man i had thought my xh was/who i wanted him to be. It is NOT who he is. I love watching you grow. Your an amazing woman and mother and you have so much to be proud of!!!
and dat der is the twuff. (sorry was just in Elmer Fudd mode, lol)
Scotty my dear friend, you are such an inspiration! It is too bad Bampot hasn't pulled his rear out of his azz but I am thankful for the opportunity for ME to know YOU.
BTW, even if he returns Bampot will not be the same. My H after such a looong time of lying to me about C has never fully returned to who he was (or maybe who I thought he was??)
We are still discovering who we are together. Some days are so rough and others are sweet but we will never be without the scars of all the crap we put each other through.
I am still not totally convinced that it was ALL fantasy at this point. I KNOW that there was evidence that he was who I thought he was, at least somewhat. He did a complete 180. Even in the past, when he had female friends, he never acted like he did in the end of 2007 until he left. Now, what I think happens is that those extra things that he does, gives me more evidence that that man MAY be under there somewhere. BUT, I need to stop thinking about him, ya know? He crept back into my thoughts again. I tried to remove him from my mind, but I couldn't. Now, when I think about him, I mentally make a point of telling myself that it is WRONG. I think I may need to wear a rubber band and sting myself every time I think about him.
BTW, even if he returns Bampot will not be the same.
I know that he will never be the same. Recovered marriage with me or not, he will NEVER be the man who he was(or who I thought he was, ). My mom isn't the same person she was, and yet she seems to think that she is.
I need to stop thinking about him as if he WILL come back. I don't know that that is a certainty. What scares me even more than that is that I won't WANT him back. To me, that would mean that I had lost something of myself that I held so dear. Could that be it? Could it be that I don't want to lose that? By golly I think it IS part of it. So it's less about who Bampot IS and more who I AM. Hmmmm. Guys, I really hope we get a snowday tomorrow because I am gonna be up into the wee hours of the night thinking about this.
Scotty, I often think- WWSD and HM2x4'sWPG (how many 2x4's would Pep give) . I use those when those thoughts start creeping in.
WXH also did a complete 180, he is no longer the person I once knew. I have changed as well, he managed to destroy something in me and those will be scars that I will carry forever. I still believe that time will heal the wound but the scar will remain. Part of me still wishes for some type of miraculous reconciliation; the other part knows that too much has happened.
I am sad as well that MB wasn't able to be applied to change the good we had to great.
Anyway, you are great and you need to continue to remind yourself of that.
WXH also did a complete 180, he is no longer the person I once knew. I have changed as well, he managed to destroy something in me and those will be scars that I will carry forever. I still believe that time will heal the wound but the scar will remain. Part of me still wishes for some type of miraculous reconciliation; the other part knows that too much has happened.
you hit the nail on the head. I see glimpses of my FH (now xh) through things with my daughter. But some how the wxh comes out and screws up the good that was done. I may not have direct contact with him (well other than the ER visit a few months ago for my DD3) but little things hurt when he contacts the IM and i get a call saying he can't get her or he needs to bring her home early ect. It opens up the wound some.... but each time it is WAY less and less. The scar heals faster.
Scotty you will know when you have had enough and with you have LC or NC it spares you from the damage that continued contact did to me and maybe others. as NOT stated on the other thread it is hard to get the right words together but please know you are not alone.
The funny thing is that I AM starting to see that I could possibly be in love with someone else. A very small possibility, but it IS there.
{{{{{Scottie}}}}}}}
This is actually a HUGE growing step for you because you were so sure you couldn't see it. I think as time marches on your views will change even more....
Remember when I first joined Sol's thread and I asked him "Why" he wanted to save his marriage? I do think its a good time for you to revisit that. Sometimes, our answers differ from when we first are asked that question....
You don't have to share it here if you aren't comfortable and it may be a something that takes you a bit to get the answer out, however, no matter what the answer is, it is yours.....
Loves ya sis....and hang in there....you are an amazingly strong and wonderful woman!!!!
Not
ps...STB4, you were a very strong and couragous woman back then. I thought I might have to bop ya for that.....How's that beautiful daughter of yours???? Hard to believe she is 3 already!!!! Cherish the moments now, because eventually they turn into 17 yr olds with a rebellious streak.....
Lexxxy, I have thought often about those things as well. I KNOW that I could be a spectacular wife to someone. I still only see myself as Bampot's wife though. The funny thing is that I AM starting to see that I could possibly be in love with someone else. A very small possibility, but it IS there.
This is the best news I've read on this site in a looooong time.
He has been gone for a year. I would so love to see you divorce him so that at some time in the future you can (morally) fall in love with someone who deserves you.
I can't tell you how happy I am now. I told my hairdresser the other day that my biggest regret was wasting so much time with WxH. She reminded me that things would not have aligned for my current dh and I to find each other if I had divorced XH when he deserved to be divorced.
Hey guys, I'm not even close to be "there" yet. I still only see myself being married to Bampot, ATM.
Today, I am having a rough one though. I received a letter in the mail from the Canada Revenue Agency(taxes). Since Bampot never changed his address on anything, they want ME to prove that he hasn't lived here. When I pray for Bampot and OW to feel the consequences of their affair, I forget that those same consequences may also effect ME. So, I called and asked what exactly I can do. They told me to get them the info that I can, and they will need to make a decision. I KNOW that Bampot opened his new bank account and used OW's address as HIS address but I don't think I can get proof of that. I haven't changed any of the bills into only my name(I DO remember thinking about it when I entered Plan B, wish I woulda done it). So to anyone who lives in Canada, change ALL of those bills and keep record of that.
I am going to print up the cell phone records to show what city he was calling from, since it IS the city where OW lives. I also need to get 2 letters, one from my employer and one from the principal at DSx2's school.
Bampot also received one of those letters, so I need to forward it to my original IMs so they can pass it on to him. It needs to be responded to within 30 days. If it doesn't go in my favour, I will lose money and I will need to pay back about $6000. That should be IMPOSSIBLE so fingers crossed that he doesn't lie.
It's not like I can MAKE him change his address. ARGH.
Just another day in the life of Scotty.
BTW, we got a SNOOOOOOOOWWWWW DAY today. First one in a few years. The snow is REALLY heavy though, it's hard to shovel. Maybe the shovel fairy will come and shovel/snowblow my sidewalks.
Scotland, This morning I saw two very 'hot' looking guys and I know they are out there. Thought.....wouldn't mind being married to someone who looked like that to each.
I find it empowering to know that though at this juncture, I am loyal to my love for my WH....it is by choice.
Choice. Choice. Choice.
Though we can see a future with our WH's if they end their affairs and can step up to the plate(s)......the sky is the limit for us betrayed ones into the future.
MarriedForever, you I wanna kick(in a good way grin ). I was unable to sleep until late last night because I kept thinking about what you said. I kept thinking about how it was the fantasy of Bampot that I was in love with and not really him. I am examining that. Could that be true? Is that what it is? I dunno. So I wrote the longest journal entry that I have written in a LONNNNNNGGGGG time. I made a list of who Bampot IS. The first thing on that list was, "Liar" and the thing is, I can't even tell you WHEN that started. Did he ALWAYS lie to me? Was NOTHING a truth?
Not, I have not ignored your question. I WILL give this some thought, and add it to the other thoughts running their marathon in my head. For now though, I am going to enjoy watching a movie, Inkheart, with DS8.
you'll do it in your time scotty... your doing great!
t/j NOT..... yes dear she is 3 and she is doing great. She was asked to be in a commercial today for her school!!!! with a speaking part!!! soo excited.... hope things with you and the mr and kiddos are well. I remember my rebelious years... not looking forward to hers..lol end t/j
Scotty, You know I still check in with you now and then right? I'm sorry about the financial situation mentioned above. I know you'll navigate it; it's nothing to pulling off possibly the best plan B in history. I just wanted to give you some encouragement from the other side, not that I'm trying to influence your path because you totally know what you're doing but this jumped out at me and not just because someone highlighted it in pink:
Originally Posted by Scotland
I KNOW that I could be a spectacular wife to someone.
I think I may have said this to you a few hundred pages back. At the time I hoped it would be Bammy, and I still do certainly for your kids' sake and yours if there is any possibility. Regardless, I think you'll have tremendous confidence you'll find the love of your life (whoEVER that might be). I believe experiences like these give insight to the point of having RADAR for the right person. You know yourself and your strengths and weaknesses like most people can only dream of. You also can see though bullsht like one can only imagine. Those are very good characteristics to have if you decide to move on. If Bamm somehow gets on board, those are also good characteristics to have when rebuilding something greater than you ever had; that's my theory.
opt
PS: hey NOT! good to see you back after a little respite in January. Hope all's well "big sis"
Thanx Opt. I know that there are many who are still there, reading and praying for only the best for me and my kiddos. I have always "felt" you all standing behind me, watching over me and propping me up when I need it. Some are more vocal, but NONE are wasted on me. You ALL are spectacular. I really do believe that we change with the company we keep and I am super glad that I found all of you to keep company with. It is my goal to better myself at ever turn, and I believe that I have gone above and beyond these last 15 months since coming here. I believe ALL of us have. Sometimes, I think about how we are all from different backgrounds, we are all differing ages and we have all had different experiences, but there is one thing that binds us all together and that is surviving some of the worst things that any human can survive. As long as I come out of this better than I was before, I have done superbly. And I don;t need anyone to tell me I have changed, because I KNOW I have.
Now all, understand this. Even if I DO get "there" on the dating someone other than Bampot thing, it wouldn't be for a LONNNNNNNGGGGGG time. I need to work on raising the two most important people in my life. They are my primary focus and one which I will surely not regret. I have always said that the most important thing that I can do in my life is raise my two children to be productive members of society. Anything above that is gravy. Have I mentioned lately that I have some SPECTACULAR kids.
Also, I was thinking about my M to Bampot. I think right now I am at that stage in grief where you remember all of the good things. I KNOW there were bad things, I can think about them(especially the A), but it seems that I tend to remember the good times more often. I will try to focus on a balance and base it in reality.
Now, to think about that question that Not asked me, "Why do I want to save THIS marriage(sorry to change it a bit)?" hmmmmmm........
She really listens and pays attention to everything that others say to her. (This also applies to things said off forum)
This is why YOU get so much attention, Scotty.
You listen, you ask relevant questions, you reach a point of understanding, you learn and take note, you apply what makes sense to you, you ask for feedback.
Newbies, pay attention. You ASK for help... BUT .... Do you listen? THIS is how you get help. Follow the Scotty method.
Not, I gave your question some SERIOUS thought last night. I wrote out a list of things that I would have with THIS marriage, both good and bad, and then I wrote a list of things I would have in a new marriage, also both good and more difficult. I still side with the current marriage as my better option, for now. So, that is where I stand. Continue Plan B, cuz that's where I want to be. Thanx for not letting me get stuck.
This week, DSx2 have only WANTED to talk to Bampot on Monday. They ignored the phone calls on Wed Thurs, and Fri. Bampot always calls them when he is on the way to pick them up. This morning, Bampot called as usual and then DS10 said, "I dunno, I will have to ask." Apparently, Bampot asked if DSx2 could sleep over. DS10 had already asked DS8 and they were excited to sleep over. By law, if we had a custody arrangement, Bampot WOULD get them every other weekend for a sleepover at a MINIMUM. I told them that it was up to them. Also, he is taking them sledding and they brought their GT snowracers with them. I am MAD at this. How do I handle this?
You are mad about the sleepover or them taking their sleds? I think he should have contacted your IM's ahead of time to let you know his plans but as time goes on (if he does not get a cranialrectotomy) you will need to decide if the boys will take some of their stuff from home on outings of if Bampot needs to duplicate what they have at home.
We try to keep whatever OC needs here at home. His mother sends clothes but everything else we provide. I would even be ok with it if she didn't send clothing, I am happy to have a second set here. Either way, I have never expected her to send toys, games whatever and really if this becomes permanent, neither should Bampot. JMHO.
Have you stopped to examine what you are really mad about here?
Many times to feel a bit of control (even though we know a ws has lost control) they try to exert it and do things without going through proper channels.
You're mad because he is trying to get the kids to like him more, and also because he didn't go through proper channels, asking the IM to ask YOU IF he could have the kids and if he could take the sleds. Instead, he did wayward style, and TOLD the kids what HE WOULD BE DOING.
My wxh used to do that all the time. He would ignore what the schedule was, or try to disrupt things. He'd try to get me to send all kinds of stuff with my ds and then after the fact I'd get only about half of it back, which would lead to me having to contact him to get it back (which might have been his goal since I remained in a modified and dark plan B for the most part after the d).
Typical wayward fashion. Tell, dictate, what they are going to do rather than ask.
I'd say this gives a bit of insight into where your ws is mentally right now. Taker still wanting to take take take..
Hang in there Scotty. He cannot do whatever he wants. He has to know that he has a responsibility as a father to have a home where HE provides the necessary things for his children during his scheduled visits.
Don't let BP (Bampot) circumvent the protection of IM.
IM is there to protect YOU !
When was the last time BP went through IM anyway?
My thoughts also. Do the Boys know how its supposed to work, or has BP used your desire for them to see thier father against you also?
You should have a talk with the boys and discuss that schedules will not be changed other than with a request thru IM, and that they are not to answer those questions if asked.
Maybe the boys will learn about manipulation through this, poor boys, but at least they will learn about it.
I was mad, and still am mad, because he didn't use the IMs. He hasn't used the IMs, to my knowledge, since I switched to an MB IM. I don't even know if the IMs changed. My last IM decided to dictate how Bampot wrote to her, so I switched.
See, what if I said, "No." Then *I* would have disappointed DSx2 since they wanted to sleepover, which was weird because only 1/2 an hour earlier, they didn't even want to go with Bampot today.
The sled thing just annoys me because they belong to THIS house. They belong to MY family. GRRRRRRR. This has also happened before about the sleds. It just irks me that Bampot feels like he still gets benefits of THIS house when he chose to leave it. Months ago, the other time that DSx2 slept at WF's, I got an email about how he had to buy them clothes so they couldn't do what he had planned, blah blah blah.
And a vent about the sleepover coming now. I can guess that there is some reason that he has asked the boys to sleepover tonight and it most likely has NOTHING to do with wanting to spend more time with them. ARGH
So how do I talk to the boys about this without it sounding like I am using the boys to pass messages to Bampot about what he is supposed to do? Also, do I get my IM to send a message about it? Any help is, as always, GREATLY appreciated.
I would ask the IM to send this message to Bampot:
"Your wife has asked me to let you know that any future deviation from the usual visitation arrangements should be cleared with your wife prior to the date by sending a message through me instead of asking the boys; otherwise, the visitation will be as previously scheduled and without any deviation."
Kinda reminds me of when we first got an above-ground swimming pool. The neighbor kids and their parents were told right off the bat that there would be NO unsupervised swimming. Then, for the first couple of days, the kids would be at my back door, asking to go swimming. Now, if I was already watching my kids swim, that was fine. However, I quickly realized that they would pester the living daylights out of me if I didn't set some more ground rules. They would start knocking on the door at 7:30 in the morning and knock every 30 minutes!
I finally told them, "I will invite you to go swimming pretty often, but if you knock on my door and ASK to go swimming, the answer will ALWAYS be 'NO'!"
For the next couple of days after that, they would come over, wearing their swimsuits, and hang around my yard. Well, these kids were kind of bad about getting into stuff, so I didn't want them hanging around outside while my kids were inside or gone somewhere. I then told them, "Coming over here in your swimsuits is the same thing as asking to swim, so if you show up in your swimsuits and hang around, you will NOT be invited to swim."
After that, there was no problem!
You need to let Bampot know that trying to use your kids to get what he wants will ALWAYS mean a big, fat "NO"!
As for the boys, just tell them what Pep said about going through the IM.
I DID tell them this morning that this is something that needs to be passed through the email IM and not through THEM. I was caught off guard and they were so excited that I really didn't know how to react. I believe that this WILL happen again, so I want to be prepared.
You need to let Bampot know that trying to use your kids to get what he wants will ALWAYS mean a big, fat "NO"!
Sorta a T/J, but I can relate to what LC went thru, and also say BP is acting like the kids she dealt with also.
I would contact your current IMs, and have them contact BP, as suggested. They should be the heavys as to the rules. His using the inside and tender emotions of you and the boys desire for contact to fit his whims is manipulative. He does not have that place anymore, you are not taking care of his children for his convienience, you have a right to structuring your life even if he does not respect how you feel, and wants to drag your heart around, at his convienience.
Once the rules are established clearly, you can have a discussion with the boys, and do not be afraid to tell them how this upsets you. Its part of the greater lesson of why also, that they might not understand right now fully, but will need to in the future, that..
There is more to the marriage commitment than skirting the rules, and more deeper emotional needs that both parties must attend to, than food and shelter. Those are a given to anyone who loves you, and a priveledge to supply, not a proof of love.
I know this will be hard to show little kids, but you have allready taught them this and they do understand it Scotty we all know. Now maybe them following the rules so you will get the proper respect you deserve, and need, for yourself, will help you heal, as you seem to be the only one who knows this between you and BP.
You are rebuilding your life also, and nowhere does it say you cannot have a structure that prevents this kind of manipulation. The boys do not see the manipulation as the cruelty it is to you yet, and you need to establish boundaries that protect you also. BP has caused this by his actions, you do not have to take it, you are raising them to understand cosequences, and the consqeunces to his actions have hurt thier Mom and thier relationship with thier Dad. You didn't bring this on, you have done verything to prevent it and reconcile.
The boys are home safe and sound and they had a good time over there. Is it wrong that I am mad about that a bit? I am HAPPY for my kids, mad that they didn't give Bampot a hard time. This lovely weekend will most likely feed into Bampot's idea that the kids are fine and that everything is okay, that what he did isn't wrong(the A and leaving). Why is it that when they go there on the regular days, they DO give Bampot a hard time, but this weekend they were on their best behaviour? I guess it is because it was something different and that I raised my children to behave at some else's house. Sorry guys, just venting. Don't really care one once about what Bampot thinks about this, I KNOW that ALL of this is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Grrrrrrrr
I WILL have the talk with DSx2 about any future sleepovers. I will need to calm down a bit first though. I don't want to say something I may regret. Once something is out there, you can't take it back.
That's one thing I admire about you. You are very measured and deliberate. You don't just react; you stop and plan what you should do and how you should handle each obstacle.
Scotty, I UNDERSTAND how the boys having a good time is a source of frustration for you; its good that you stop and plan how to approach each situation. YOU never want to be the one that spouts anything bad about the other parent. The immediate results are not apparent - but the long term results are. (I have been dealing with stepchildren and waywards behavior - indirectly at first - for a very long time) I think that had the boys behaved or misbehaved would not have been enough to tell BP that they are not "just fine". Had they misbehaved it would have been blamed on probably one of several factors; "they are boys", "they are at that age", or potentially you - "their mother is brainwashing them". The waywards behavior or the A is never the culprit in the waywards eyes. JMHO But for you always being the "great mom" and the point of stability for them is what will have the most lasting results for you and for those boys. Be glad for your boys sake that they did have a nice weekend with their father. And again I know how much that statement hurts. But I always look at what is in their best interest, no matter how much it may hurt me. {{{{Scotty}}}} Now to add to that; BP should not be allowed to deviate from protocol and the established schedule.
The boys are home safe and sound and they had a good time over there. Is it wrong that I am mad about that a bit? ...
Absolutly not, and again I think BPs ability to circumvent the rules hurts you too, and might be holding back your own personal recovery.
The boys will only be as healthy as the healthiest parent IMO, and you are that one by far.
I don't see where using an authority outside of the way BP wants to play this is hurting anyone, or makes you a bad guy. Thats what it seems he is counting on in these communications thru the kids. Again you are supposed to bear all the burden and cater to all needs, even from the Biggest kid, BP himself.
The rules from the standpoint of normal IM communication should be something to respect for everyones emotional health, he is breaking those rules, and thats my point.
Ok I said enough, if nobody else chimes in it will have to stay the way it is, I'm not trying to cause trouble for BP or have him see the boys less, and it is beginning to sound like I am.
Sorry I couldn't respond last night, my internet has been going out again.
I had the talk with DSx2 this morning. In a nutshell, I told them that I made a mistake for letting them sleepover on Saturday night because Bampot didn't use the IMs. I told them that I will NOT be making that mistake again. I told them that I am not opposed to them spending more time with their father, he just needs to follow the rules and when rules aren't followed, the answer will ALWAYS be, "No." I think they understand.
I did find out the reason for the sleepover on THIS weekend(as I KNEW I would). Bampot and OW took "the kids" to a french winter carnival yesterday and they left at 750am to have breakfast there. It is the same carnival that they attended last year. Selfish reasons for a sleepover, geez who woulda thought?
I had a LOL moment too(well not really LOL as it had to be done in my head but I DEFINITELY found it funny as H3ll). DS8 told me that he was having trouble sleeping. He was hungry. So, he woke Bampot up to get some food, at 5AM. HAHAHAHAHAHA DS10 complained that they were BOTH hungry all weekend because Bampot keeps telling them that he doesn't have a lot of food. It's not like he starves them, so it isn't really something that needs to be addressed with Bampot, just shows how much of a turd someone who USED to be a GREAT father, becomes when they become wayward.
On another note, when I asked DSx2 if they want to sleepover on a regular basis, they QUICKLY said, "NO." Guess we will keep the schedule the way that it is.
Mitzie, you would think so, wouldn't you? For the most part, and at most times, it is like second nature and I can't even recognize the person I was a year ago. There are still times that I think about talking to Bampot. There are even times when I doubt the decisions I made. I center myself and pray, and then a calm comes over me that tells me that I am right where I am supposed to be.
I try to keep this thread as honest as possible to allow others who are just starting their journey to see that it is all pretty normal.
I forgot to comment on that part of Peachy's post, thanks for bringing it up. I am NOT angry about my WH trying to get the kids to like HIM more, it was the fact that my DS8 said that he likes WF(OW). THAT I am NOT okay with. I want my kids to HATE her. I want every experience they have with OW to be BAD. I don't want them to have any good feelings about the peron who helped tear their family apart. I KNOW she is NOT a good person, and I don't want my kids to get snowed by her. Make sense?
Your kids are still young. OW is probably manipulating just like WH and youngins don't know that. They only know how 'nice' dad's new lady friend is. Sickening, I know.
My boys are older. They both think OW is a w*ore. They have both told me that! First, I didn't even know they knew what that was , (they're still my babies after all)and second, I was secretly happy inside . I didn't let them know this. I only scolded them for using such language. But they do know adultery is wrong.
I only hope that if WH and TrampySkankHo stay together and they get kids to come around to her that it's a looonnnng time from now.
Does your WH's OW have kids of her own? Horrible if she does. Mothering is at the TOP of the most important jobs a woman can ever have and to be an horrid awful mother makes OW horrid awful people. Of course we already know this. TOO bad WS's don't.
Mitzie, my children know all about the affair and they know that what Bampot and WF did was wrong. I remember about a year ago, DS10 asked me, "If what Daddy is doing is wrong, does that mean he won't go to Heaven." I told him that it wasn't up to me, that was up to Daddy and God. And before this past weekend, DS8 said that WF didn't even talk to them much. This weekend, they all went sledding and she played games with them. I know it was only one weekend and that DS8 can change his mind on a whim, he is a child afterall.
I don't want them to have any good feelings about the peron who helped tear their family apart. I KNOW she is NOT a good person, and I don't want my kids to get snowed by her. Make sense?
Hmmmmmmmm I feel an idea coming on.
You know that game where you fill in the blanks of a story with a (noun) or a (verb) or an (additive) or a (color) ??? Then, you read it aloud .... and laugh.
MAKE ONE UP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Once there was a (person) who went to (place) with (other person). On the way, they stopped to get some (treat food). The saw an (animal) playing with a (object) and sounding like a (thing).
(Person) says to (other person):
"Hey, look over there! I can see (family member) driving a (vehicle). "Is that a new (toy) they bought?"
"I really miss (person) sometimes."
"I like it when we can play (game) with the entire (group)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just playing with this idea. But, you catch my drift.
Pep, as always, you have me intrigued and...... DISTRACTED.
DS8 received 2 books that were like this for his BDay, maybe I need to play with them. Apparently, they can be quite hilarious. But let's do the one you posted, shall we? ============================================================== Once there was a PRINCESS who went to a MUSEUM with an ASTRONAUT. On the way, they stopped to get some BIRTHDAY BASH ICE CREAM. The saw a COW playing with a DOOR and sounding like a AIRPLANE.
PRINCESS says to ASTRONAUT:
"Hey, look over there! I can see UNCLE FRED driving a MOPED. "Is that a new YOYO they bought?"
"I really miss TEACHER sometimes."
"I like it when we can play PICTUREKA with the entire COUNTRY."
Your kids are still young. OW is probably manipulating just like WH and youngins don't know that. They only know how 'nice' dad's new lady friend is. Sickening, I know...
No matter what Scotty, and you know this, your boys don't see real love in this relationship with POSOW.
Its Ok you don't like it they like her, but when they get older they will probably despise her, for obviuos reasons.
I feel Sad for the POSOM that got suckered into the relationship with my late wife. He was a loser and she took advantage of him, but I don't care what happens to him, and I know he will allways have to live with himself, which is his punishment. I guess this is cold comfort, but sometimes that is all we have.
Thank God you have the courage to rise above all the BS those two are living in Scotty. God has his Hand on you.
You know that game where you fill in the blanks of a story with a (noun) or a (verb) or an (additive) or a (color) ??? Then, you read it aloud .... and laugh.
MAKE ONE UP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Once there was a (person) who went to (place) with (other person). On the way, they stopped to get some (treat food). The saw an (animal) playing with a (object) and sounding like a (thing).
(Person) says to (other person):
"Hey, look over there! I can see (family member) driving a (vehicle). "Is that a new (toy) they bought?"
"I really miss (person) sometimes."
"I like it when we can play (game) with the entire (group)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just playing with this idea. But, you catch my drift.
You are creative. Make one up.
See this went over my head Pep My brain hurts now..
Possible break in Plan B? Do you think that being on the nightly news, and then repeated on the morning show counts as a break in Plan B?
It's funny. I went to a meeting about a new low income school that they are going to open in our area and as I was leaving the meeting, our local TV station interviewed me. Part of me thought, "Oh no, Bampot may see me." Honestly, that was one of my thoughts as the lady was interviewing me.
DSx2 were mad at me last night, because I wouldn't let them stay awake until 11pm to watch it. Then, the morning news show replayed it, so now they are happy, and well-rested. The news station got my name wrong though. Never fails when I have a chance to be famous, they get my name wrong. HAHAHAHAHA
Um, unless you were there holding a poster saying "BAMPOT COME HOME" I wouldn't count it as a PB break.
Doesn't that just figure about the name? Fame was right there within your grasp, and they snatched it away. Ah well, among those who know you it was still your day to shine.
Oh guys, I know it wasn't a real break in Plan B, I WAS KIDDING. HEHEHEHE
Delta, the name, Bampot, came about on my thread after my dad took a trip to Scotland in May(the trip where my Wayward mom had a UHAUL truck in his driveway and announced she was coming home). He talked to me on the phone about his trip and he said, "Scotty, I learned a new word in Scotland, Bampot. I means idiot or foolish person." I decided that it would be a PERFECT name for my WH.
Oh guys, I know it wasn't a real break in Plan B, I WAS KIDDING. HEHEHEHE
Delta, the name, Bampot, came about on my thread after my dad took a trip to Scotland in May(the trip where my Wayward mom had a UHAUL truck in his driveway and announced she was coming home). He talked to me on the phone about his trip and he said, "Scotty, I learned a new word in Scotland, Bampot. I means idiot or foolish person." I decided that it would be a PERFECT name for my WH.
oooohh, I like that. Bampot = idiot. I might have to borrow that for my ex-sister. We're Scottish too.
(but I do like the nickname sisterskankerella so very much ... also courtesy of this forum)
Although there are many who are hurting(I can be counted among them at times), today, my 2nd Valentine's Day in Plan B, I can let you all know that it really does get easier. The pain isn't at the surface, as it was last year. It' more like a paper cut, rather than a GIANT bleeding hole in my chest.
I bought small presents for my children, and a little thing for myself. I decorated the front door with some window clings for the kiddos.
It's hard to avoid thinking about your WS on this day, especially with all of the people celebrating around you, so take this time to celebrate what you DO have and don't focus on who you don't.
It's hard to avoid thinking about your WS on this day, especially with all of the people celebrating around you, so take this time to celebrate what you DO have and don't focus on who you don't.
Scotty, these words got me through my day. I have my 4 kids, my mom, my in-laws, my sister, my sister-in-law, my brother, and some great nieces. I am truly blessed by my family and some really loving and supportive co-workers.
I also have Marriage Builders and a lot of new friends I've made here, like you. Thanks for all you do.
My Valentine's played out like this. It was our puppy's first birthday, so DS8 and I got her some toys. As we reached our house, I had hung my small gift to MYSELF on the mailbox. DS8 said, "Mommy, look at that." He went over and got it and said, "I think it's for you. It's a cow with a heart on it(I love cows). Who is it from?" I said, "Who do you think it's from?" He said, "Daddy." I quickly said, "No, I KNOW it's not from Daddy. It must be from someone who knows that I love cows and who loves me very much." I smiled and we walked into the house together. My internet was giving me problems, so DS8 and I spent some time watching some of his favourite shows. DS10 came home from boxing and we played Rockband 3. We had a lot of fun and I couldn't have imagined a better Valentine's Day.
Sooooooo, yesterday and today, I have WANTED to look at OW's page. Why? I dunno. I got it in my mind that WH proposed to her on V-day and I wanted to see if it was true.
I didn't do it though, and I am not going to.....tonight. I can NOT be certain that I will NEVER want to do it again, but I needed to get this out here to keep myself accountable. I need to keep myself on the straight and narrow.
Afterall, if my WH DID ask OW to marry him, what would that mean to ME? Really, it would change NOTHING in my sitch. MY WH had an A and left me and my children, any future hurt is just piled on TOP of what he did, it doesn't change it unless he STOPS(and really, I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever).
I would think about looking at her page, and my stomach would turn as if I was bracing for something. Then, I would think about it. I would see her face. I would see the words, "in a relationship with Scotty's WH." I wanted to do it, but then I would think about all of you. I would think about how Pep would say, How FF would say, "You promised, remember." Neak would say, "Hun, you know you shouldn't have done that." PM wuld give me a big ol 2x4 and ML would probably not comment but would most definitely think, "Oh Scotty, this is NOT plan B." Okay, I KNOW that this isn't really what you all would say but the imaginary ones in my head would.
I am going to need to find something to keep myself busy and off of that FB page. I need to Plan A my kiddos again. I seem to have slipped on that one. It's family day here on Monday. Gotta figure out something to do.
I signed up for Netflix yesterday and do you know the first movie we watched? WATERWORLD. That brought us to some interesting discussions about evolution. It's hard to explain that to an 8 year old. DSx2 seemed to like the movie and it was the first time I had watched it.
I am okay, I just needed to get it out of my system so I wouldn't do it. I felt it eating at me. I actually thought, "Is this a fraction of what it feels like for an alcoholic when they want to drink?"
and the truth is Scotty that you feel better if you don't look and that is our primary concern...your well being. MarriedForever recently reminded me of how destructive looking at xOW's blog is for me. She was right! I thought I was 'protecting' myself by being "armed with knowledge" when all I was doing was inviting pain in over and over again. I can only imagine how much worse it is when your WH is still actively in the A!
Well, I DIDN'T look and so far, today, I haven't wanted to. That was why I needed to write it down here. To get it out of my head. Once the thought entered, it was like a cancer that just kept growing. I am CERTAIN that had I looked, I could have thought of a reason to look next week, or next month. All of it would have done NOTHING for me. I all about protecting me, from ME.
On another note, it's worm here today. The snow is melting. My friends and I went walking around the track and then we went boxing. It was nice to have it feel like spring is coming. It's going to snow again next week, but I'll enjoy it for today.
what if you blocked her? I had to block my xh and OW and OW mother my xil.... i know i can unblock it at any time but now i don't see their names or comments with anyone we have in common.
I have her blocked and she has me blocked. I logged onto my Mom's FB. It's not done by accident, and that;s why it is so bad for me. I actually need to DO it. Thanx for the idea though STB4. I actually defriended someone from HS because I saw that he had her as a friend. We have NO other friends in common.
That was part of why I didn't want to look either. It really doesn't mean anything. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't mean that there are happy, or not. It's doesn't mean, if he didn't, that they are happy or not. It's just NOTHING. And that's why I didn't look. If I saw that she changed her FB status, WHO CARES? If she didn't, WHO CARES? Honestly, it means NOTHING and I needed to focus on that.
MarriedForever recently reminded me of how destructive looking at xOW's blog is for me. She was right! I thought I was 'protecting' myself by being "armed with knowledge" when all I was doing was inviting pain in over and over again.
Scotty...truly, the longer you go without looking at her FB page the better off you will be. It's been years now since I've seen anything about OW online and it makes me feel nauseous to think about it. I can't even force myself to to do it at this point.
You know how it feels sometimes that you can't NOT do it? I am at the other end of the spectrum where I can't MAKE myself do it. It feels fantastic too.
When you feel like doing this please post here instead and get support. It's not worth it to set yourself back by looking at a lowly POSOWs FB page anyhow.
Well, you know how I didn't want to see OW's FB page? Well, I still didn't. BUT, this morning, I missed the first bus. I was sitting at the bus stop, and who drives by me? WH with OW. They must have gone to the grocery store near our house. I saw OW.
Then, I had one of the most horrible days at work in a while. Can't wait for today to be over.
ETA: This is the first time since September that OW has been in the car with WH. WHAT ARE THE CHANCES? In my life, pretty GREAT.
Ah Scotty, why can't they just order their food out, and live like teenagers on pizza and soda? Buy groceries from the local convience store? Do they really live that close by?
It is callous to flaunt this in front of you, but then what kind of alien hell are they living in anyway, where people and your word doesn't matter anymore. I know you would not buy into that crap, you just don't have it in you to be a Wayturd. Aren't you missing out now.
But then, and i don't wanna start anything here, but who was driving? Maybe, just maybe, things are not so good in Affairland anymore, still,(never were in the first place).
Maybe that is how Bampot deals with problems, having that little guarantee that you are around in case this one challanges him to much. Maybe this is his insecurity, like what drove his dumb head up his butt, when it got played on by POSOW.
In all the time he has been gone, doesn't he know what bus stop you might be at?
Just seems like things are not going so good, and if he really wanted to avoid you he would have picked another route.
His recovery from his issues may not follow if ever, but be certain to know you are living right, and what he is doing with the OW is lower than whale poop.
He will reap what he sows, its just a fact of life.
That's the thing, they don't live close by, they live in a different city altogether. If I hadn't missed the first bus, since Bampot came late, I wouldn't have been there. I saw them coming, since they came from the same direction as the bus. Without giving out too much info(in case someone lurking knows Niagara Falls), this local grocery store is a small one and it is cheap. Bampot and I used to do most of our fruit, vegetable and meat shopping there because the prices are so good. It's not a chain. There ARE other ways for Bampot to drive, but this is the most direct route to get back on the highway. I really don't think it was anything thought out on Bampot's part. And if there was some thinking, it had nothing to do with seeing me, but more about how he isn't going to go a different route to avoid me.
What really bugged me most was the fact that OW hadn't come with him in MONTHS and the day she does, is the day I see them. It probably wouldn't have been so bad to see just Bampot. And then my day went horribly at work.
Watched a movie with the kiddos and then went to sleep. That day is over.
My dad gave me a ride home from work, I was telling him about my day and he said, "What's rule number one?" I answered, "I know I know, 'Spit(only change the p to an h) happens.'" That's some dad wisdom from wayyyyyy back.
Oh Scotty, I am so sorry that you are having to face these reminders. I understand how hard it is; I have no great words of advice. But know that you are a strong woman, know that there are so many people on here and IRL that care about you, know that you can be proud of who you are and what you stand for.
Scotty, I'm sorry about your bad day yesterday and your struggles to not look at OW's FB page. Please don't beat yourself up about a few breaks in your nearly impeccable Plan B.
I know you didn't like seeing her (if I saw Dumpy, I'd have to be hospitalized!), but I bet she didn't like seeing you, either. The 85-lbs.-lighter-and-more-confident-you had to make her feel bad about herself. Had to.
DS8 got the flu on Sunday and it lasted until Thursday, when it decided DS10 and I were better hosts for it. It hasn't been a great week at Scotty's place.
Other than that, nothing much has been happening. Still trying to read Harry Potter as much as I can, while taking care of the kiddos and keeping up with people here.
HopeandGrace has me on a mission to figure out what I want to do, career wise. MF has my head still spinning about my M and Bampot BEFORE the A. Sometimes, when I think about things, I actually start to cry, remembering the good things about Bampot and how I don't have those anymore. But, at least I have those memories. That I don't regret.
I watched P.S. I Love You last night. One of my new FAVE movies ATM. I never realized that I was a romantic person before.
You know that is my neice's fave movie and she made me sit and watch it with her. I cried my eyes out mainly when I saw it (I was dating my H early-on at the time) b/c Gerard Butler looks like Darth (my xh).
But the meaning of the movie to me was that it is ok to let go. It is ok you remember those wonderful things, because that was who your HUSBAND was. Bampot is somebody else. He is not the same man he was, sadly.
It is now up to the man known as Bampot decides the character known as Bampot must go, and he realizes he was better as the husband, that is fine and his duty now.
You are Scotty. A brave, wonderful, lovely mother and friend. You're still who you are, but a bit more strong, loving, and resilient woman who isn't afraid to walk thru fire for those she loves. Unlike bampot, you are STILL the same woman, but a slightly better version now.
That's at least how I saw things with me, when Darth (the man now he is, formerly known as my ex husband) went down what I'd call a path of no return.
Bampot isn't there yet. But that's not your deal right now. YOUR healing and having a fabulous recovery and doing things now for you and your family is what is at hand right now.
And yea, if it were me, I'd have a fabulous photo taken of the slimmer sexier you and it'd be up there for the world to see on FB! You can guaran=damn-tee that the ow will be lookin'. Know you shouldn't worry about that..but bet the bampotster would too.
They can't see on FB. They have been BLOCKED. I sometimes wonder if my MIL shares some pics of the kids that I have on FB. I can't control that.
Thanx Peachy, it's good to know that I AM on the right track. There were a few things in the movie that I thought about. There was some good advice on there, even for me. I have actually watched it 4 times since Bampot left. Last night, it had the most meaning for me, now.
Sorry about the flu, but glad you are all on the mend. Funny I never think to check FB for updates. I try not to be on there too often, if I am then I am tempted to check SS's status. I am glad to hear you are considering career options, personally I think you would be great at teaching or counseling! It will be a great journey to embark on.
Thanx GF, I still have more to go, but dang I look so much better.
I have a confession, and I can't remember if I confessed this already(don't worry everyone, it's not about Plan B). I am now a JEAN addict. For the longest time, I didn't own jeans. After losing the weight, I now own about 6 pairs. And every time I see new ones, I just WANT them. They do look GOOD. HAHAHAHA I think I need to attend JA.
One more recovery day from the flu. Scotty land needs a good cleanup, but it'll have to wait until I can bend over, and stand up without feeling like I am going to pass out. That's the problem with having one well kid running round when the rest of us are sick, he makes a real mess.
Friday night, around 1030pm, DS8 woke up. He went to get a drink but we had run out of milk, and me not being able to go out due to sick kids, I couldn't replace it. Apparently, he felt it was the only thing he wanted to drink(could be worse, ya know). My dad called me to ask if I needed a ride to work on Sat. I told him I didn't need to work on Sat. Then he heard DS8 crying about the milk. So he came over and brought milk and cookies. He said that milk always needs cookies(a real GRANDPA thing to say, dontcha think?). DS8 was HAPPY. Gotta love my dad.
This brings me to an update on my parents. I am trying to stay out of their marriage, since I can see that they are heading for a disaster if they continue this way. My dad tried to confide in me his frustration. My mom keeps trying to complain to me, about my dad, but it drives me NUTS. I again told her that she should come on here and give MB a shot.
She said that my dad always thinks that she is going to leave again. I tell her that of course he does. Then, I told her that she keeps thinking that he doesn't want her there. She admitted to that. Then, she made me so angry yesterday. She brought up the "counselor" that they went to see. Obviously, this counselor knows NOTHING about saving marriages. It is evident because my wayward mom LOVES this woman. She latched on to things that this woman said and repeats them over and over again. How the woman doesn't believe my dad will ever forgive my mom, with all of his anger(really? does she not think he SHOULD be angry?). I told my mom, that from reading on here, I know that it is perfectly NORMAL for my dad to be angry 6-12 months after she moved back home.
I don't know if she has been in contact with OM, she stopped telling my sister and I long ago. I wouldn't be surprised though. She is worried that OM will never find someone again. She is worried that OM will die alone. I think OM is a loser, and I could really care less what happens to him. I just don't understand a wayward mind. And I'm not trying to figure it out.
You know, I have given thought to becoming a MB certified MC. I will add it to my list. It's not at the top, but it is up there.
Scotty, You'll do well with anything you decide you want to do. Obviously you are dedicated and have the discipline to excel at any job or career. You have met some life experiences that will make most any job challenges appear to be very manageable. Any employer will be very fortunate to have you on their staff; again regardless of the field.
I'm catching up on your thread. You are doing great. Just keep heading in the right direction. And congrats on the weight loss. YOU are FABULOUS. Just think how JEALOUS OW was when she say you at the bus stop looking all skinny and such. And Bampot? What an idiot. That's what I say about D!ck now days. What an idiot.
And as for the "what if they get engaged" thought? Who freakin cares. D!ck and Bimbo are engaged and have been for a while. (She text me that she didn't care how long the D process lasted because she has her engagement ring to keep admiring.)
Talk about added pressure. Marriage to you and I does not mean the same thing for the OW-hos. Marriage to them means "winning" as in the Charlie Sheen rants. "Winning" means talking the "prize" regardless of the consequences and the bloodied bodies left on the side of the road. OW care nothing about us or our kids or the family they destroyed.
Scotty -- we need to keep our families together. To keep being the people we were -- we ARE -- for our kids sake and OUR sake. Keep doing the right thing. Keep parenting. Keep believeing in justice. Keep PRAYING. The influence of OW in our WHs lives is toxic to THEM. THEY need to see this. And the longer it continues, the more I SEE that WE are doing the right thing. We just have to keep our head above water.
Remind me -- has either of you filed yet? If not, do what you can to stock pile money and gift cards. If he's paying the credit card bills, add on a $25 gift card when you go to Target or the grocery store. ANYTHING will help in the long run.
I pulled quite a few money bunnies out of my hat over the past two years. My motto -- outwit, outplay, outlast. It's a game and you have to strategize sometimes.
Keep doing what you're doing, Scotty. YOU are FABULOUS in your jeans and all. Try to always look your sexy best because you never know when WH's car will drive by you again. Next time -- BLOW HIM A KISS. lol.
Wow, wow, WOW! I'm new here and I spent all of Thursday & Friday reading through this thread. Scotland, you are an incredible lady and a true inspiration. I cried and cried for you while reading and can only imagine the pain you have/are experiencing. Makes my situation seem tamed. My WH had an EA with an ex-GF. I caught it really quick (was going on for little over a month). I put the hammer down strait away. Shined the light and watched the roaches scatter.
In my favor was mine & WH's relationship with both side of our families. We are all very close. His parents and mine are still married to their original partners for many years and family is very important to all. Plan A thankfully didn't take long. We are in R right now. I just found this site so I'm adding Dr. Harley's curriculum to what we are currently doing. It may even surpass it since I think it's a better plan of action. Of course WH is on monitored status still. Eyes are everywhere unbeknownst to WH.
God Bless you and your children and I pray your WH comes out of his fog.
Holy, thanx for the advice. No, neither of us have filed yet. Our money is separate now though, he pays what I asked for in my Plan B letter. I'm getting by, but it seems Bampot is not too happy with the financial sitch. He often tells DSx2 that "they"(him and the boys) don't have much food because he doesn't have a lot of money. Also, he would mention the times I would take the boys out to eat. He was mad, but i get to do with my money what I see fit, he gets no say. And if he wants more money, he should come home and stop trying to support two households. It's just a part of his consequences.
So, I am going to wait at a different bus stop from now on. They drove past me again this morning, although I was prepared for that possibility this time. I wasn't caught off-guard, and actually was "watching" for them. It wasn't until I got to work that I decided my new plan of action. I will walk further and wait at a different stop, one that he can't "accidentally" drive past. I don't know if they saw me, but I saw them, and it was enough to knock me off my good mood.
On Thursday, I saw the original IMs. I had to send some mail to them for Bampot, from the government. She told me that he still hasn't picked it up. It was supposed to be returned to the government by Feb28th. I think, and I am just throwing it out there, since that's my style , that Bampot thinks it is D papers and that's why he hasn't gone to get them. He thinks that I would have waited for a year to file, but he doesn't realize that I could have filed day 1. Silly silly wayturd.
Lately, I have been getting quite mad at Bampot. I have actually WANTED to move on, get a boyfriend and make him jealous. That ISN'T something I am going to do, so don't worry about me. I am just throwing it out there to let others know that these feelings are normal and that you don't have to stoop to that level.
It is so tiring sometimes when I hear people talk about affairs. I heard the, "Obviously, if someone stooped so low as to have an affair, they weren't happy in their marriage." I said, "You might think that, but that's not really what it is. It all boils down to weak boundaries." Being on here, knowing what I know, it is sometimes hard to remember what "normal" people think. Just putting the good out in the universe and hoping it grows somewhere. you never know.
Holy, thanx for the advice. No, neither of us have filed yet. Our money is separate now though, he pays what I asked for in my Plan B letter. I'm getting by, but it seems Bampot is not too happy with the financial sitch. He often tells DSx2 that "they"(him and the boys) don't have much food because he doesn't have a lot of money. Also, he would mention the times I would take the boys out to eat. He was mad, but i get to do with my money what I see fit, he gets no say. And if he wants more money, he should come home and stop trying to support two households. It's just a part of his consequences.
That's how I feel about my WH, too, Scotty. If he has to pay me spousal support and child support (I'll find out on the 14th), he's going to have to work a lot of overtime in order to maintain his big spender status with Dumpy. Back child support, paying for an expensive divorce, and having to pay thousands more in taxes this year are going to take a financial hit on him that he will dearly feel. I have no pity. I'm loving it.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Lately, I have been getting quite mad at Bampot. I have actually WANTED to move on, get a boyfriend and make him jealous. That ISN'T something I am going to do, so don't worry about me. I am just throwing it out there to let others know that these feelings are normal and that you don't have to stoop to that level.
I've considered doing this, too, but it would negate my complaint of adultery for the divorce. Also, I'm not ready to move on, just ready for someone to appreciate me. I want that someone to be WH. I miss him so much.
Originally Posted by Scottland
It is so tiring sometimes when I hear people talk about affairs. I heard the, "Obviously, if someone stooped so low as to have an affair, they weren't happy in their marriage." I said, "You might think that, but that's not really what it is. It all boils down to weak boundaries." Being on here, knowing what I know, it is sometimes hard to remember what "normal" people think. Just putting the good out in the universe and hoping it grows somewhere. you never know.
I think my WH's insecurities (about looks and personal value) led him to be particularly vulnerable to flattery and pursuit. That's what caused his boundaries to be so weak. I know that the rest of the world, even some people I'm related to by marriage, think that if I'd been a better wife, he wouldn't have strayed. I now know better.
H&G, I don't know if you understand how HUGE it is for me to even consider "dating" someone else. Sometimes, I get MAD at Bampot for that. That's not what I wanted for my life. I was supposed to be with him, FOREVER. This wasn't what I wanted for my life and I was so completely "into" him that I couldn't even imagine being with someone else, EVER. I actually discussed that on this thread.
Sometimes, it comes out in a way that I would LOVE to have Bampot see me with someone else. That it would HURT him. I dunno if it would or not, he might not care, but that's where it comes from. It's most likely my TAKER YELLING at me.
I have decided that living a SPECTACULAR life, without him, is where my focus needs to be. I am a work in progress, but at least I am progressing and not crumbling.
Last Tuesday, while I was talking to my dad, I said, "You know when the moment will be when Bampot wants to come back to me right?" He said, "The moment you don't want him to anymore." I said, "Yep. And that scares me." It does.
I am going to listen to some music and watch a movie. I need to get a little "lift" today.
H&G, I don't know if you understand how HUGE it is for me to even consider "dating" someone else. Sometimes, I get MAD at Bampot for that. That's not what I wanted for my life. I was supposed to be with him, FOREVER. This wasn't what I wanted for my life and I was so completely "into" him that I couldn't even imagine being with someone else, EVER. I actually discussed that on this thread.
Of course I understand how huge it is--it's huge for me, too. Thirty-two years of marriage and then all of my assumptions about my life and the love of my life are taken away by an unrepentant WH. I think I've thought about moving on because he filed for divorce. Whereas before I only allowed myself to believe/hope that this nonsense would end soon, now I'm forced to think about a future without him--I need to accept that he may never come back and that I may not want him if he does.
Do you remember my threads? How devastated I was and how unable I was to go to Plan B because I still wanted to be in contact with him? Agony, pure agony. It's not what any of us, in this club no one wants to join, wanted.
Hugs to you, Scotty. There are better days ahead, but it's like waiting for Christmas--if only we could predict our own futures! If we knew, one way or another, how this would end, it wouldn't be so traumatizing to endure.
I know that you understand. I was talking about how it was for ME. I was just letting you see, that recovery, while it is a slow and long process, DOES happen. It will happen for you too.
I do remember your threads. I remember yelling at my computer screen when you would post certain things. I KNOW that it is harder for you. I never thought that I would be divorced but I ALWAYS said that if I were to get divorced, that I wouldn't date again. I am NO WHERE near ready to date(even if I got a quicky D TOMORROW) but what I AM doing is actually seeing myself with someone else. Seeing the possibility. Of course, right now, that vision still has Bampot in my future, but now I see that it COULD be someone else. Progress. Steps in the right direction. That is my mission and my goal.
I went thru this exactly during my separation and time until the D was final. It was excruciating b/c I was a married woman, who acted and lived as if she was married, although living as a single mom and alone (except for my child).
If it helps, YES your WH's will regret everything and it is true..when you do not want them they do return. And if they are indeed single, then you can decide ON YOUR OWN TERMS what you want.
I remember the first time I was actually single and on a date. I felt as though I was actually cheating. It felt odd to move on. But you do and you take baby steps when it is time. You both will know if and when to move on or not too.
And my xh got engaged to the pregnant ow well before our D was final. I remember struggling to pay any bill, having an eviction notice put on my front door at my rental home with my child, and hearing she had gotten a FOUR carat diamond ring. Grrrrr.
poor poor waywards. They complain about less money, losing assets which have to be divided, but it is THEIR FAULT. Let them own it. Never listen to crazy whining. My xh actually told the judge he couldn't afford to pay me the six months of back child support he owed me (I had barely begun to go back to work and was left with all the joint bills b/c he basically abandoned my son and I). Of course my attny found that he'd actually spent over 12k in Vegas and bought over 30k in furniture for his bachelor pad (our old house) and couldn't find the time to write me the child and spousal support check of 1,500.
And multiply that by 6 months, and me having to start all over again with a new job and only 32 hours a week employment.
I burned inside when I found out about her ring. I cried. I fumed. But it was all fake and it wasn't a real engagement at all. How the hell can you be engaged when legally married? Well maybe if you're Bill Paxton from Big Love or something, but the real world says this is borderline illegal.
They are now officially divorced. Yep. Happened recently. I still shake my head and wonder "why" he did all of this. If your WH's continue forward and never change or see the error of their ways, they are 100% bound on the same path that Darth is/was on. Future for them is written in stone.
Just know that God heals the deepest of wounds. He has risen the dead. He can heal a broken heart easily if He could raise Lazarus. In time all of this will make sense to you, but I sincerely pray that your WH do not ever get to the point that Darth did.
I heard a song on the radio that so reminded me of how I felt during that time of my life from one of my favorite bands. Maybe you can go listen to it. By Linkin Park. Called "Waiting for the End". Awesome song. I actually thought of both of you when I heard this.
I am going through the same thing also....as you guys...I am a married single woman...while WH is out living it up.
My WH was staying at his brothers condo for free and recently BIL has rented it out so WH moved in with his mother....WH was putting pressure on me saying I need to make some money because he shouldnt have to move in with his mother, he deserves a life too???!!!!!!!! What?!!!! I replied....well you had a "life" with your family, in a nice house, that you left...Now you are still living the "life" that you alone chose....living with your mother.....That IS your "life"....
I also said "why dont you just move in with your mistress?" "She has a good job and makes good money." I got no reply....see how bad I am at plan B...but we are not gonna get back together at this point anyway...
THEN....the lease was up on my care and his old crappy car was dying....so of course "I" needed to make money, according to him. He said if I didnt he would have to take money out of his 401k to pay for a car....I said "Do what you have to do to finance your new life with OW."....He said he was gonna leave me with the old crappy car....I said that was fine...but if it was gonna break down, then that wasnt fine..all I do with the car is drive DS around and go to the grocery store and a judge wouldnt find it to favorable if you are driving a new car and you leave your wife and son in a dangerous car....
He leased me a new car....Waywards love to threaten and scare you into doing what they want....but usually, not always, but usually, what is right prevails....I just REFUSE to work to pay for HIS single life.....I Just cant do it, I cant....WH and his Pig make good money, let them figure it out!!!!!!
I'd just like to say again Scotty, that you are an amazing person. Your thread will be in the MB Hall of Fame for years and a great source of comfort for those who come behind you. Hope you're enjoying a GREAT weekend!
I had to work today. Tired. BUT, IT'S MARCH BREAK. So I will sleep in tomorrow and spend some quality time with the kiddos.
DSx2 let me know that since I was "blessed" seeing OW in the car with Bampot a few weeks ago, she has continued to be in the car every time. ARGH. I find it so disrespectful. It is the first thing that really peeved my mom off, if you can believe it. I joked that Bampot should leave her on the corner with the rest of the street walking trash. My boxing trainer told me that I am better than that. By that, he meant that I was better than calling her names and stooping low. He's right, I am.
Finished reading Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I have started HP: Order of the Phoenix and it is the first one that I haven't seen the movie for first.
She's a typical OW. She may be in the car now to make SURE that WH doesn't try and stop one day to talk to you. They're very insecure and suspicious creatures. Wonder why that is? *g*
I know. Doesn't make it any less disrespectful though. I don't look out, so I don't actually see them there. DSx2 don't like it, especially DS10. That's the reason they even mentioned it to me. We don't really talk about anything that happens. They talk about their feelings and things that bothered them, but if they don't tell, I don't ask.
I am moving in the right direction, and that is all I ask of myself. One foot in front of the other, one step at a time. Like the saying goes, "How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."
Just know that God heals the deepest of wounds. He has risen the dead. He can heal a broken heart easily if He could raise Lazarus. In time all of this will make sense to you, but I sincerely pray that your WH do not ever get to the point that Darth did.
This is one of the things that I hold onto. Thanks Peachy
Well, Scotty, I KNOW I'm getting better... yes, one foot in front of the other. How can I tell? Well, I just finished watching The Bachelor season finale. I pretty much watched the ENTIRE SEASON -- even the episode on Valentine's Day.
See -- after all the crap I've been through, I still believe in love and romance -- even if it's reality hype and the couple never end up getting married.
But just because I was able to watch tells me that I want to be in a relationship again. I want to go on a date and have fun with a man again. No -- I don't want to share him with a house of females all competing for the same man like the program, but I want to find someone.
Believe me. When I first found out about the affair, I couldn't focus on ANYTHING. I watched little TV at all because my mind was going a 100 miles an hour with thoughts and pictures that just kept popping in my head non-stop. And I spent hours and hours on the phone rehashing this and that and telling every friend and family members what happened that day.
Now -- three years later (OK, I'm VERY slow at this), I feel good and my mind is clear. I look back at how tramatized I was back at the beginning and where I am now. My friends and family definitely see a change. I am focused on me.
So there is hope for us BS's out there. I know I have to get divorced first before the real magic can happen, but I'm OPEN and OPTIMISTIC that a great guy is out there just for me. I not only believe in love, but I believe in a BETTER LOVE than the one I had for nearly 30 years with WH. That, my friend, is HUGE in my book. I never thought I'd say that.
Nice post Holyheart, it helps those of us who are not quite there yet, imagine the possibilities. It also helps to know that the craziness I felt and still do just not as intensely, is normal.
Believe me. When I first found out about the affair, I couldn't focus on ANYTHING. I watched little TV at all because my mind was going a 100 miles an hour with thoughts and pictures that just kept popping in my head non-stop. And I spent hours and hours on the phone rehashing this and that and telling every friend and family members what happened that day.
Now -- three years later (OK, I'm VERY slow at this), I feel good and my mind is clear. I look back at how tramatized I was back at the beginning and where I am now. My friends and family definitely see a change. I am focused on me.
I was like that too. I cringe now because I know I must have neglected my son to a degree because I was on the phone so much. Almost 2 years later I am sooooooo much better. I don't even always repeat my interactions with XH to my mom.
Originally Posted by Holyheart
So there is hope for us BS's out there. I know I have to get divorced first before the real magic can happen, but I'm OPEN and OPTIMISTIC that a great guy is out there just for me. I not only believe in love, but I believe in a BETTER LOVE than the one I had for nearly 30 years with WH. That, my friend, is HUGE in my book. I never thought I'd say that.
It is huge and I am happy to hear you say this. What is the hold up on the divorce? Because I definitely think 3 years is enough time of being seperated to get your head and heart in the right place for a new relationship--when-as you said, the divorce is final.
Just checking in to say that life in Scotty-ville is.....life. Things have been happening all around me. Some of it bad, some of it good, and some of it devastating.
I have been thinking about things lately. One thing I noticed is that 15 months is a LONNNNNNNG time, and 15 months isn't really that long. Huh? Well, I think about how far I have come on those 15 months, and it is AMAZING. Then I think, it really wasn't that long ago, when you think about it.
On the Bampot front, he is still fulfilling his duties financially. He still calls DS10 every night, whether DS10 answers or not. This week, DS10 has actually spoken to Bampot 3 days in a row. That is a first in almost 2 months. I noticed, since I am human, that Bampot has attempted to call EVERY SINGLE NIGHT since DS10 stopped talking to him all of the time. And when DS10 answers, Bampot usually only talks for a few minutes before saying "bye." Sometimes, DS10 says, "I want to talk to you more." And sometimes he doesn't. Usually, if he does, Bampot will talk to him for a few more minutes, but it is still less than 10 minutes. How does someone go from having their children be the center of their universe to someone who sees them for about 60 hours a month and speaks to them, on average, 100 minutes a month? I just don't get waywards, and I hope I never do.
On a positive note, no one's asked me if I have started dating, in a few months. Now that I mentioned it, someone is sure to bring it up tomorrow.
Take care. Live life. That's what I am doing each and every day. Making the best life I can for me and my children.
ETA(since I am a positive person and I don't want to always seem negative), Bampot bought shoes for DS8(even though I have some) and he didn't need to ask DS10 to ask me what size he needed. Anyone remember that from last year? HEHEHEHEHEHE
One day at a time. Towards a beautiful future! Maybe Bampot will in time, rejoin you and your children in this beautiful future, but maybe there is simply a different and amazing new future ahead!
So, yesterday, I checked the mailbox. I hadn't checked it since Thursday. I received a letter from the government about needing more proof that Bampot doesn't live here. They want me to prove that Bampot hasn't lived here since Dec/09. I am going to need to be creative about it.
Then, this morning, DS8 gave me a hard time about going to school. He was wearing a short sleeved shirt and he didn't want to wear a jacket. I told him that he couldn't leave the house with a short sleeved shirt on. I actually walked out of the house and stood at the corner(4 houses away) and waited for him to come out.
As I was standing at the corner, that OM/MM from the school was standing with a couple and another man. They were talking. Then, OM/MM saw me standing at the corner. Whenever I have seen him alone, he wouldn't even look in my direction, and he crosses the street instead of walking past me. Apparently, with these "friends" aka. encouragers of the A, he found some courage. He started saying, quite loudly, "I have a wife AND a girlfriend." They all laughed. He then said, "It's okay though, my wife knows about the girlfriend. I can't be doing anything wrong when my wife doesn't care that I have a girlfriend." I was SOOOOOOO angry. He kept looking at me. I knew what he was trying to get to me, but I kept my cool. I walked back to my house and DS8 was on his way out.
I walked him up to school, went inside and then he wouldn't go to class. He is having a bad day today. So I brought him home. He kept telling me that he didn't want to go to school because he would miss me too much. And to think, just last week I was thinking that it had been a while since he had a bad day. To parenthood.
Oh, BTW, I finished reading the Harry Potter series on Saturday night, and I am sad. I KNEW that it was the last book, but I am sad that it is over. I started reading The Gargoyle, by Andrew Davidson. I'll let you know what I think when I am done that one. Anyone have any suggestions for other books/series that I should read.
I've always wondered how you prove a negative. I had a client who had to prove her husband didn't live there. Some bills were still in his name because they were behind and they wouldn't "reconnect" them in her name until she paid the owed ammount which she couldn't do. As her caseworker, I went and advocated for her but I don't know what a normal person does.I think they should have to prove he IS living there...
As far as I know, which being in Plan B, I can't be certain, he hasn't even changed his license.
We don't have a legal separation, and none of the bills had been changed. I can't buy him out of the house.
Funny thing is, they are asking me to prove where I live. I have lived in this house for the past 12 years. I didn't go anywhere. What does proving where I live do to show that Bampot doesn't live here? I am going to give them what they ask for, I just don't know how it will help.
My original IM, the last time I spoke to her, had told me that Bampot hadn't picked up the his mail from the government. It was the same papers I had received about proving that he didn't live here.
I am going to just give them what they asked for, and let them figure it out for themselves.
Scotland, I follow your story and you are dong well. I congratulate on not going over to OM/MM and decking him. I don't know if I would do the same.
I told my friend, as I was leaving the school with DS8 in tow, that had it been on my way home from the school, I may not have been able to control my temper. All I did was look at them.
Oh, BTW, I finished reading the Harry Potter series on Saturday night, and I am sad. I KNEW that it was the last book, but I am sad that it is over. I started reading The Gargoyle, by Andrew Davidson. I'll let you know what I think when I am done that one. Anyone have any suggestions for other books/series that I should read.
Hi Scotty! If you like YA stuff, the Hunger Games series (3 books) was GREAT! Check out the reviews on amazon. Very hard to put down
I would have to say that Order of the Phoenix was probably my favourite. I was very sad when I finished the last book(which I borrowed from the library on Friday morning and finished it at 1am saturday night(Sunday morning). The people that Harry lost, especially the last 4, was gut wrenching. I was actually sobbing when I read it. My friend thought I was crazy when I told her that. She said, "You were crying over a BOOK?" Yep, I was. HEHEHEHE
I would have to say that Order of the Phoenix was probably my favourite. I was very sad when I finished the last book(which I borrowed from the library on Friday morning and finished it at 1am saturday night(Sunday morning). The people that Harry lost, especially the last 4, was gut wrenching. I was actually sobbing when I read it. My friend thought I was crazy when I told her that. She said, "You were crying over a BOOK?" Yep, I was. HEHEHEHE
Deathly Hallows is hands down my favorite book EVER. That is saying a lot if you knew how much of a lifetime reader I am. I cry every single time I read that book and I have read it at least 6 times, yes 6! The losses feel so real because JK Rowling is very adept at character development. You learn to love those people as much as Harry does.
Could you read Deathly Hallows as a stand alone? I am not interested in reading the whole HP series but I love books that are tear-jerkers. (happy to hear I am not the only one)
SusieQ, you could probably read it as a stand alone if you have seen any of the movies. I think it would be hard to follow entirely as a stand alone. Why are you not interested in the series? It is the best series of books and not just for kids. She is an outstanding writer.
SusieQ, I would most definitely suggest that you read all of the books and not just the last one.
I have to admit that I only read the books, at first, because I had made a deal with my friend. I had watched the first four movies and I wasn't interested in Harry Potter at all. I know that books are ALWAYS better than the movies, but I didn't feel the need to read them after I had watched the first 4. Then, after reading only 2 pages of the first book I was HOOKED.
I think that you would need to read all of the books for the Deathly Hallows to have its greatest effect.
FF, I think that part of the reason that Order of the Phoenix was my favourite book was because it was the first one that I hadn't seen the movie for, so it really grabbed my attention. A lot of people told me that Prisoner of Azkaban was their fav. I would really enjoy reading the series again and I can't wait to watch all of the movies now. I am glad that I finished the series before the last movie was released in theaters.
I have tried reading Book 1 a while ago but just had a hard time getting into it. I don't read a lot of YA books but maybe I will try again Thanks, FF!
Susie Q, book 1 is the hardest one to get into. After he gets to Hogwarts, the whole book improves.
I liked Order of the Phoenix best, too, Scotty--until Deathly Hallows came out. I've read it at least a dozen times. I cried and cried (and still work up to tears) when I read it.
For new reads: Try Jim Butcher's Dresden Files. The first 2 books are merely okay, but he gets better and better with each book. There are now a dozen in the series. Look him up on amazon and read the reviews.
He also has a totally different fantasy series that I really enjoyed--The Codex Alera. It's about a boy (Tavi) who, alone of all of his people, cannot control the "furies" that inhabit Alera. There are furies of earth, wind, water, etc. Controlling a wind fury will enable one to fly, controlling a water fury will make you a healer. A fun read with 5 books in the series.
Another great book is The Last Elf by Silvana De Mari. It's also known as The Last Dragon. Unlike the Jim Butcher books, this is a Young Adult book--a poignant story of an elf and a dragon. I really enjoyed this immensely! It's out of print, but you should be able to get it through a library. It's also only about 26 cents for a used copy at Amazon, but you'll have to pay about $5 for shipping.
It's not only YA that I would like to read, I wish to read GOOD books.
My favourite authors are Shakespeare, Dickens and Stephen King. I am going to add Stephanie Meyers, Diana Gabaldon and JK Rowling to that list. I am interested in escaping right now, and "falling" into a good book.
It's funny. Last night, I was sitting at my mom's house and we were talking about my childhood. She told me that I was always reading and that she knew that she would never have to worry about me. I never really thought of myself as a reader as a child, but I do remember reading a lot of books. I have found the love of reading once again and I want to feed it. It's as if I have been suffering starvation and now have begun to eat once more. Keep them coming.
He went into school more easily today. He just kept telling me that he misses me. He keeps trying to tell me that he loves me more than I love him. I tell him, "I have both a mother and a child and I can tell you that I love you a lot more than I love my mother." I told him that he will understand one day when he has children of his own.
He has a hard time expressing himself and he tends to shut down. I was talking to a doctor who told me that he believes that my DS8 may need to go to anger management classes. He thinks that his "shutting down' is actually a silent temper tantrum. That he does this to protect himself so he doesn't get into more trouble. It is something to look into I suppose. He had been doing okay for a while there. Dunno what caused this one.
So, I have Hunger Games on reserve at the library. All of the libraries in this city are out of them ATM. When I mentioned which series I wanted to read, there were 4 women behind the counter. As soon as I said, "It was recommended to me to rea the hunger Series," all of the women said, "Oh yeah." I guess it must be a good series. I'll let you know.
Hey Scotty, just catching up on your thread. It's not a series but I think you might like Neil Gaimon as an author. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think you would really enjoy Neverwhere. American Gods is my favorite by him and is also really good.
Hey Scotty, just catching up on your thread. It's not a series but I think you might like Neil Gaimon as an author. I'm not exactly sure why, but I think you would really enjoy Neverwhere. American Gods is my favorite by him and is also really good.
Hugs to you and your son.
Pssst, Limbo, it's spelled Gaiman. Neil Gaiman. We read some of his stuff here at my house. Another favorite author amongst my clan is Terry Prachett. He's very, very popular/well-known in the UK, but not as well known here. I don't know why because he's a great author.
Thanx Limb. Since I offered you music advice, I will take your author advice.
I am going to be so busy reading. I LOVE it.
I have seen that OM/MM at the school in the mornings and after school and wouldn't you know, he still walks with his head down when he walks past me. What a turd. Also found out this morning that he had an A a couple of years ago and was called out by the BH. The BH and WW moved away. I hope they have saved their marriage.
I bought the Harry Potter movies today. It was hard to watch Chamber of secrets on my 10.1 inch netbook with DS8 on my lap and DS10 on the arm of the couch. I decided watching it on a 40 inch LCD was a better idea.
My ds is re-reading "prisoner of Azkaban" right now and we're all off to Orlando next week for spring break and to see the Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Orlando!!!
Woo hoo!
Fwiw, Scotty, I also immersed myself in reading during that time. I also read every one of Dan Brown's blockbuster books too. Very descriptive, and mental adventures and vacations all in one.
I also needed some light, fun reading, so I ended up reading all of Jimmy Buffet's books too. Great fun! I might add, try reading "Where is Joe Merchant". So much island fun, you feel you might have to apply sunscreen or tanning lotion halfway thru the book!
Susie Q, book 1 is the hardest one to get into. After he gets to Hogwarts, the whole book improves.
Thanks H&G! I will put the HP series on my TBR pile. How are you liking your Kindle? I am getting so much mileage out of my Nook...it's already got a crack on the page turn button and I hardly watch any tv. Before you mentioned that you like YA/fantasy books, and I meant to ask you if you ever read the Ender's Game Series?
Scotty, if you liked Twilight, you may want to check out the Mortal Instruments series. My SIL was after me for months to read those books!
OK, for those who like tearjerkers...this one came up many times in the reading discussion forum I lurk in but I put off reading it forever because it looked cheesy..."Cry No More" by Linda Howard. Holy Cow! I give it 5 hankies!!
I'd suggest the Dresden Files series if you like fantasy, it's somewhat for an older teen/adult genre, due to some content.
Not a lot of romance, and he's a magical PI sort of person that surrounds himself with non-technology. (He touches your computer and it'll probably go dead because of the magic)
Thanx guys, that list is growing. I only hope my children learn how to cook for themselves so I won;t need to stop reading. Okay, okay, J/K(a little).
DS8 has been having trouble going to sleep now too. He is worried that something bad will happen. He keeps telling me that he misses me and he has become extremely clingy again. He always wants to sleep in my bed, and I keep telling him that he needs to sleep in his own bed. Hard to do at 3am but I have been managing okay.
I am doing what I need to do because.....there is no one else around to help. Of course it isn't easy, but it never is. ARGH.
Well, snuggle with him in his bed til he falls back asleep. He needs it right now. He is 8 and that is so very young. His life is askew and I am all for listening to the underlying message (more closeness while reassuring him). What ever happened to the dog? Is it still there? Does it sleep in the house? Maybe the dog could sleep in DS8's room?
Susie Q, book 1 is the hardest one to get into. After he gets to Hogwarts, the whole book improves.
Thanks H&G! I will put the HP series on my TBR pile. How are you liking your Kindle? I am getting so much mileage out of my Nook...it's already got a crack on the page turn button and I hardly watch any tv. Before you mentioned that you like YA/fantasy books, and I meant to ask you if you ever read the Ender's Game Series?
Susie, I LOVE my Kindle! The battery stays charged forever and it's so easy to use. Best of all, new reading material can be mine in a matter of seconds!
My DSs gave me Ender's Game (or, rather, let me use the oldest DS's worn-out copy!) I loved it--I had the final plot twist figured out, but I found it to be a very enjoyable read.
Currently I'm rereading the Song of Fire and Ice series by George R.R. Martin. It's extremely well-written and totally engrossing. And, now thinking about it, it occurs to me that oldest DS recommended this author, too. (That's okay--I turned him onto Tolkien and Asimov--he owes me a few good books!)
I'd suggest the Dresden Files series if you like fantasy, it's somewhat for an older teen/adult genre, due to some content.
Not a lot of romance, and he's a magical PI sort of person that surrounds himself with non-technology. (He touches your computer and it'll probably go dead because of the magic)
I absolutely adore the Dresden Files series--I even recommended it (above) a day or two ago. I think the most appealing part of it is the humor that comes out--not forced or jokey, just things that will make you laugh and appreciate that the author is someone you'd like to spend an evening with. While there's not a lot of romance, Harry Dresden is sexy. He's talented yet humble and filled with righteous rage at wrongdoers. I heart him.
reading, I can't sleep in the bed with DS8 because it is a twin and DS10 is already in there with him. They started sleeping in the same bed just before Bampot left. I think they needed each other. I am okay with that. They BOTH want to sleep in my bed at times. It's not new. Even when Bampot was here, there were times that I would wake up with one of them wedged between us. Usually, I didn't even know that they were there until I saw them. Sneaky little ones. I just know that it is a habit that I don't want in my life. I also will admit that I sleep much better without them in the bed. They are like little heaters and DS8 tends to sleep right up against me, even with no one else in the KING size bed.
reading, I can't sleep in the bed with DS8 because it is a twin and DS10 is already in there with him. They started sleeping in the same bed just before Bampot left. I think they needed each other. I am okay with that. They BOTH want to sleep in my bed at times. It's not new. Even when Bampot was here, there were times that I would wake up with one of them wedged between us. Usually, I didn't even know that they were there until I saw them. Sneaky little ones. I just know that it is a habit that I don't want in my life. I also will admit that I sleep much better without them in the bed. They are like little heaters and DS8 tends to sleep right up against me, even with no one else in the KING size bed.
HopeandGrace asked me what I have been up to. I realized then, that I do many things now without even a thought about Bampot. It is weird. It's like the realization that your child is growing up and you didn't notice until that moment.
Lately, as you all know, I have been reading. I finished The Gargoyle. It was okay. I will be getting Hunger Games from the library tomorrow.
The boys and I have been watching a lot of moves together. We have begun to watch the Harry Potter movies. They seem to really enjoy them.
I am busy making things for my BIL and his GF who will be having a baby in the next few weeks. Also, my cousin will be having a baby too.
I started looking into college courses that I can take online.
I applied for a manager position at work.
A couple of weeks ago, the kiddos came back from Bampot's and told me that they had been taken to go see a new place for Bampot and OW to live. Yesterday, Bampot showed them the place that they will be moving to. He then told them that there are a lot of children there and that they can make a lot of new friends. I don't get it. They aren't there very often, and the time that they are there, they should be spending time with Bampot. Oh well. Then, today, he sent a message stating that he wants the boys there every Saturday night and they will sleep over. The IM(being GREAT) asked me how I wanted to handle clothing etc. I sent her the response that the boys will be willing to sleep over there every other weekend and they will only bring with them the items that are not easily replaceable, ie DS8's pillow and cabbage patch kid that he sleeps with and some toys. I believe that anything else they need for their time with their father should be provided for by Bampot.
My mom is worried that Bampot is trying to get custody of DSx2. He has no legal ground to stand on. The best he could hope to get is 50/50, but I won't let that happen too quickly. I know that he is up to something, since he has been making sure to let the answering machine pick up every time he calls. I guess he wants record of how often he calls. I don't know what for, it's not like it is a good record anyways. SHRUG.
So, it seems that life is pluggin on as it should. I am still taking care of myself and since I am not intending on dating any time soon, I haven't found any reason to file for a D. Let's see where life will take me next.......
..So, it seems that life is pluggin on as it should. I am still taking care of myself and since I am not intending on dating any time soon, I haven't found any reason to file for a D. Let's see where life will take me next.......
You sound good Scotty. As you know I am not into the dating scene either. I am not against it, but freinds are more my speed anyways. Maybe I will find one someday that I want more with, but thats so far down the road, and there is a lot of road to cover too.. lol.
Good luck on your possible promo at work. I am sure you will be awesome. The colledge classes can be a lot of fun also.
HopeandGrace asked me what I have been up to. I realized then, that I do many things now without even a thought about Bampot. It is weird. It's like the realization that your child is growing up and you didn't notice until that moment.
Lately, as you all know, I have been reading. I finished The Gargoyle. It was okay. I will be getting Hunger Games from the library tomorrow.
The boys and I have been watching a lot of moves together. We have begun to watch the Harry Potter movies. They seem to really enjoy them.
I am busy making things for my BIL and his GF who will be having a baby in the next few weeks. Also, my cousin will be having a baby too.
I started looking into college courses that I can take online.
I applied for a manager position at work.
Wow, look at you! I'm crossing my fingers that you'll get that management position and start taking college classes online. As for your boys enjoying HP movies--of course they do! I even fantasize about flying my own broom (some students I've had will swear I already do! )
I have Hunger Games on my Kindle, so let me know how you like it. I'm still going on with the Song of Fire and Ice series since I want to be fully up-to-date when Book 5 comes out in July.
Originally Posted by Scotland
A couple of weeks ago, the kiddos came back from Bampot's and told me that they had been taken to go see a new place for Bampot and OW to live. Yesterday, Bampot showed them the place that they will be moving to. He then told them that there are a lot of children there and that they can make a lot of new friends. I don't get it. They aren't there very often, and the time that they are there, they should be spending time with Bampot. Oh well. Then, today, he sent a message stating that he wants the boys there every Saturday night and they will sleep over. The IM(being GREAT) asked me how I wanted to handle clothing etc. I sent her the response that the boys will be willing to sleep over there every other weekend and they will only bring with them the items that are not easily replaceable, ie DS8's pillow and cabbage patch kid that he sleeps with and some toys. I believe that anything else they need for their time with their father should be provided for by Bampot.
My mom is worried that Bampot is trying to get custody of DSx2. He has no legal ground to stand on. The best he could hope to get is 50/50, but I won't let that happen too quickly. I know that he is up to something, since he has been making sure to let the answering machine pick up every time he calls. I guess he wants record of how often he calls. I don't know what for, it's not like it is a good record anyways. SHRUG.
I guess I don't need to tell you to document, document, document the days he calls and how often he speaks to the boys but just thought I'd mention it.
Originally Posted by Scotland
So, it seems that life is pluggin on as it should. I am still taking care of myself and since I am not intending on dating any time soon, I haven't found any reason to file for a D. Let's see where life will take me next.......
I bet you're heading somewhere great, with or without Bampot. You're a terrific person, Scotty, and I very much enjoy "knowing" you.
Thanx guys. Not only do I document, there is also my cell record, since I am smart enough to ensure that he calls them on that. There were all of the times that he wouldn't call before and then he would email them instead(or not depending on what he was doing). So I have a paper trail if I need one.
I don't think that my mom's fears are valid. I don't see how it could work out and I don't believe that OW would adjust her life for his kids. They are moving into a house. DS8 said, "They will have a basement so we can run around and make a mess and Daddy won't have to tell us to stop." HAHAHAHA Then he said, "Daddy wants us to sleep over so he doesn't have to pay for gas so much." I was caught off guard with that comment(although I shouldn't have been since he said that before) and I replied, "It would have made me more happy if he said he wanted to spend more time with you instead." Oh well, it really wasn't that bad of a comment, but I shouldn't have said anything.
I dunno if I mentioned the other book I am also reading, The Secret. I have always known about the power of positive thinking, and I have always tried to stay away from people who were toxic, I am seeing things a bot differently now. I believe ANYTHING is possible. Positive things just HAVE to happen.
Dang, girl. You are good. I am so impressed by your growth through all of this! That idjit Bampot - ah, well, he'll just have to deal with his regrets at his leisure
I read The Secret, and while I thought it was a little over the top with attaining anything you want, the message was a good one to incorporate. One thing I got from it was to realize that I have an abundance of wealth. Not so much cash (sadly ) but the other, less replaceable stuff like health and family. AND to avoid toxic people so their negative energy doesn't sap mine.
Scotty - it's been months since I caught up on your story, and there were way too many posts to catch up on (some 100 pages lol) but you sound like you're doing great! I read the Secret too, and was sucked in by the promise of having anything I wanted as long as I thought positively hard enough lol. Took me a while, but I figured out that it's not really magic - if you're a positive person you attract positive things and people to you! No one wants to be around dreary, unhappy people all the time.
Anyway, you have grown incredibly and I hope your journey continues to go well!
Thanx NP. I have learned that from the Secret too. The main thing I also learned was about how to change the way that I look at things. There were times when I would worry about my kids, and I would notice that I would compound that worrying and my thoughts would follow. I also realized that it goes right along with MB. The more I would think about how I missed Bampot, the MORE I missed Bampot. KWIM? I would also pray about things that I didn't want to happen. I have also changed that too. Now, I give thanx for the strength that I have been given and pray for things to turn out better.
I have started reading the Hunger Games. I am more than halfway through the first book, should have it finished tonight. Then, I need to wait for the second one to come back to the library. I picked up the third one again today so I won't need to wait. So far, so good. I have Eragon, and the Percy Jackson books lined up. I also ordered the book, "The Sweet Potato Queen's Book of Love" off of ebay. It was recommended to me by a very wise and WONDERFUL woman. Thanx.
Today, I had another trying day with DS8. He got into a "fight" with his bestfriend about holding the door open when it was time to go in. I told him to back off. He got angry and then shut down and wouldn't go in. his teacher came out, and I must admit, I think she is FANTASTIC. She asked me what happened and I told her. She then mentioned that it happened on Tuesday as well. She told DS8 that he would be the person to hold open the door after recess. He still wouldn't budge. Then, I tried, to no avail, to put him inside. He just came back out. Physically lifting him never accomplishes anything. The teacher asked if it would be easier if she weren't there. I told her that it would probably be easier if I weren't there. To that, she smiled in agreement. Then she told me that DS8 has been talking about how he misses Bampot, our old dog and cat(who died almost 3 years ago), for the past 2 weeks. I had noticed that he was more clingy at home but didn't think anything of it. Poor Guy. Anyways, he had a few minutes alone with me without the teacher when he said, "I am hungry." I asked him what he had in his lunch. He told me he didn't want to eat any of it now, he wanted something else. I took him to the store where he got a giant chocolate chip cookie and some milk. He ate it and went to school. I hope he had a good day. As I was walking out of the classroom, I heard the teacher say, "You are one lucky boy to have a mommy who..." I was walking away and didn't hear the rest, but I teared up anyways.
Now, for the real reason in need to post today. I want to keep this thread as honest as possible as I know a lot of people keep an eye on it. Some may even be helped by the words that i write, and that is my truest intention. I have been having thoughts about other men. It didn't just happen. There were a couple of times last year when I had fleeting thoughts. One man, if I hadn't had strong enough boundaries up, I may have crossed that line.
I believe that there have been 4 men I have thought about in a fantasy relationship way. I interacted with them and thought, "It would be nice to have him in my life." I say "fantasy" because, when I am truly thinking about it, they would not be a good match for me. None of them are married, but I AM. Not only that, a relationship with them would not be a better life for me. Realistically, if I were looking for a "mate", they would be no where near the top of my list.
You don't need to worry about me, I have my strict boundaries up with these men, as well as other men. I just thought I would put these feelings down, here, so others can know the importance of boundaries and so they don't feel abnormal if they have these same thoughts. I am not in a wayward mindset, but through these "fantasy" thoughts, I can see how it can happen.
Another reason I am forever grateful to all of you. If it weren't for the accountability I feel towards you all, and the guidance I have received, I would have made my life miserable.
Thanx for reading along. You guys are SUPER FANTASTIC.
(((((DS8))))) And his teacher is correct about you and your ability to be a good, but not smothering, mom.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And, on a lighter note .... Hmmmmmmmm I think you might be having some >ahem< tension "down there". There's an "app" for that. If you catch my drift ...
I took him to the store where he got a giant chocolate chip cookie and some milk. He ate it and went to school. I hope he had a good day. As I was walking out of the classroom, I heard the teacher say, "You are one lucky boy to have a mommy who..." I was walking away and didn't hear the rest, but I teared up anyways.
I agree he is one lucky boy.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Now, for the real reason in need to post today. I want to keep this thread as honest as possible as I know a lot of people keep an eye on it. Some may even be helped by the words that i write, and that is my truest intention. I have been having thoughts about other men.
Not surprising or abnormal at all. It is good you have your boundaries up and aren't crossing any lines. However, you know what I am going to say next...right?
How long are you going to live this limbo? Your WH has released you from your marriage vow and he shows ZERO interest in repairing what he damaged so badly. You could be legally free of him in a very short amount of time and then FREE to think of other men and entertain an actual relationship.
Your choice of course. But think about the possibilities of being divorced from your WH.
SW, the thing is, in all reality, I still love Bampot. I am not ready to even contemplate a relationship, fantasy or otherwise, with anyone else,right now. I understand that you only want what is best for me, but getting into any type of relationship is not it, ATM. I still need to heal. A man isn't going to heal me. I still have hope and faith. I will know what I need to do, when I am ready.
Pep, oh good grief you make me HOWL. It's not only about hmmmm..."down there," it's about love. I want to feel loved by a man. I want to feel protected. I want some romance darn it. ARGH.
MB, I will take any advice, encouragement, or 2x4's that you have to dish out to me. You are "da bomb." HEHEHEHE
I suppose reading the hunger Games series isn't helping me in my wanting romance. They are some good books though and I would suggest anyone who likes YA to read them. I read almost the whole Catching Fire one yesterday. I started on Mockinjay today. I had to buy the books. I am loaning them to my friends now too. Thanx SusieQ(I think you are the one who suggested them and I am too lazy to go find out if it wasn't you).
(((((DS8))))) And his teacher is correct about you and your ability to be a good, but not smothering, mom.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And, on a lighter note .... Hmmmmmmmm I think you might be having some >ahem< tension "down there". There's an "app" for that. If you catch my drift ...
Scotty, you and the teacher handled that soooooooo well! I had moments similar with my now DD18 and we were not even separated. She is just an extremely emotional child.
Thanx SusieQ(I think you are the one who suggested them and I am too lazy to go find out if it wasn't you).
Yes, it was me I am glad you are liking them! Those are HARD books to put down, huh?
Funny story, my SIL read these books almost a year before me and she literally begged me to read them because she desperately wanted to discuss Book 3 with me (I won't say why, don't want to give any spoilers away). So lmk your thoughts when you are done!
..I say "fantasy" because, when I am truly thinking about it, they would not be a good match for me. None of them are married, but I AM. Not only that, a relationship with them would not be a better life for me. Realistically, if I were looking for a "mate", they would be no where near the top of my list.
You don't need to worry about me, I have my strict boundaries up with these men, as well as other men. I just thought I would put these feelings down, here, so others can know the importance of boundaries and so they don't feel abnormal if they have these same thoughts. I am not in a wayward mindset, but through these "fantasy" thoughts, I can see how it can happen. ...
Thats why I rarely post to you Scotty, you have it together, I don't worry about your strength of character. I follow your thread all the time.
I do think that its healthy that you think about "what it would be like" though, it just means your normal. When that deep and strong love-bank for Bampot becomes totally dry, and your love for your family fits into moving on, you will know it.
God will bless you with your hearts desire. Love those kiddos and give em all hugs for me k?
SusieQ, I just finished reading Mockingjay. I will say that these books are pretty darn good and I can't believe that I hadn't heard of them until now. Thank you. I probably liked Catching Fire best, but they were all really good. Exactly what I wanted after I finished reading HP. I think I should sleep now, although, I don't know how easy that will be with the books in my mind.
CP, thanx for checking up on me.
I was actually getting mad at Bampot tonight because of all of the pain in DS8. It doesn't effect me as much when i am hurt as it does when someone I love is hurting. I will be okay. DSx2 will be okay, we have to be.
I loved Catching Fire but I have to say Mockingjay was my favorite of the three. My gf warned me I was going to hate the ending and guess what? I LOVED the ending. I thought it was perfect. If you read the massive thread on Amazon about those books you will see that I am in the minority, lol.
Yes, that's true, FF. My SIL was very upset & emotional over Book 3. She sent me a long email of her grievances with it LOL.
We read it as part of a book club. One of my closest friends was so upset at the end of Mockingjay that she read the riot act to the two ladies that chose the book. She later apologized saying it was simply an emotional reaction to what she perceived as a lousy ending, lol.
SW, the thing is, in all reality, I still love Bampot. I am not ready to even contemplate a relationship, fantasy or otherwise, with anyone else,right now. I understand that you only want what is best for me, but getting into any type of relationship is not it, ATM. I still need to heal. A man isn't going to heal me. I still have hope and faith. I will know what I need to do, when I am ready.
There has been something nagging me about your situation for days and I just now realized what it is. When I was 10 my mom met another single mom with a 10 yo boy. Her dh had left her for OW 8 years earlier. They were legally divorced, and he never saw the boy. This friend was still pining away for her 'husband'. She still spoke of him as if he was her husband and was patiently waiting for....??? I don't know. 35 years have passed by. She is still a good close family friend. Her son grew up, she went to work, retired, became a grandmother....but basically NEVER looked at another man. Ever.
I don't want that for you.
I don't think you need to get involved in another relationship ATM. I would just love for you to consider that your WH isn't worth wasting anymore time on and cut him loose so that WHEN you are healed and ready for a relationship you have no legal entanglments with your WH.
I get that you still love him. Sometimes love is not enough.
I hung on to a bad marriage for 26 years. I remarried MUCH quicker than most people would think is wise...but I can't express the extent of my happiness now. I had NO clue I could be this happy in a marriage/relationship. It just keeps getting better and better.
My biggest regret is staying in that bad marriage for as long as I did.
I didn't think it was that horrible of a ending. I just really liked the Catching Fire because there were so many twits and turns that I didn't see coming. Mackingjay was a little more predictable. That is why I liked it a bit less than Catching Fire. They are really good books. Now, some of my friends are going to read them too. Thanx
SW, the thing about me is that a year ago, I would have told you that I AM that woman you mentioned. If I never had a boyfriend again, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I am not pining away for Bampot. I am not even "waiting" for him. What I am doing is healing, in my own way, at my own pace.
I am not going to condemn you for the choices you have made, I do know that I would not make that choice, right now.
There has been much discussion on this thread, and in my own thoughts, about what I could have and what I could do. I am looking at it realistically, and for right now, my focus is on my healing and taking care of my kiddos.
Bampot is not worth my time. Bampot is not worth much to me. The man I married, the man he was, and who he could have been is worth it to me, he just doesn't exist anymore. He may never be again.
This process isn't about him. This healing is about ME. I am heading down my path, changing with each step that I take. I am becoming something better. For that I am forever grateful.
Thanx for sticking around with me and for caring enough to want better for me, it is greatly appreciated.
This process isn't about him. This healing is about ME. I am heading down my path, changing with each step that I take. I am becoming something better. For that I am forever grateful.
SW, the thing about me is that a year ago, I would have told you that I AM that woman you mentioned. If I never had a boyfriend again, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I am not pining away for Bampot. I am not even "waiting" for him. What I am doing is healing, in my own way, at my own pace.
I am not going to condemn you for the choices you have made, I do know that I would not make that choice, right now.
There has been much discussion on this thread, and in my own thoughts, about what I could have and what I could do. I am looking at it realistically, and for right now, my focus is on my healing and taking care of my kiddos.
Bampot is not worth my time. Bampot is not worth much to me. The man I married, the man he was, and who he could have been is worth it to me, he just doesn't exist anymore. He may never be again.
This process isn't about him. This healing is about ME. I am heading down my path, changing with each step that I take. I am becoming something better. For that I am forever grateful.
Thanx for sticking around with me and for caring enough to want better for me, it is greatly appreciated.
I love this post, Scotty. You are one for the record books.
From my experience, both praise AND criticism can be handled with a polite "Thank you".
I like this Pep.
Sorry if I am overstepping Scottie....I just went back and read your first page of this thread...and ya know what? You ARE healing. You have come a long way.
And if you go look at my thread about visitation on the divorced forum you can see the down side of remarriage...
SW, the thing about me is that a year ago, I would have told you that I AM that woman you mentioned. If I never had a boyfriend again, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I am not pining away for Bampot. I am not even "waiting" for him. What I am doing is healing, in my own way, at my own pace.
I am not going to condemn you for the choices you have made, I do know that I would not make that choice, right now.
There has been much discussion on this thread, and in my own thoughts, about what I could have and what I could do. I am looking at it realistically, and for right now, my focus is on my healing and taking care of my kiddos.
Bampot is not worth my time. Bampot is not worth much to me. The man I married, the man he was, and who he could have been is worth it to me, he just doesn't exist anymore. He may never be again.
This process isn't about him. This healing is about ME. I am heading down my path, changing with each step that I take. I am becoming something better. For that I am forever grateful.
Thanx for sticking around with me and for caring enough to want better for me, it is greatly appreciated.
What a post
Ok Scotty, I can't stand it anymore! will you marry me?.. Lol your awesome sista!
NM you would probably kill me and I have rules about things like that. Big brother== n
SW, the thing about me is that a year ago, I would have told you that I AM that woman you mentioned. If I never had a boyfriend again, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. I am not pining away for Bampot. I am not even "waiting" for him. What I am doing is healing, in my own way, at my own pace.
I am not going to condemn you for the choices you have made, I do know that I would not make that choice, right now.
There has been much discussion on this thread, and in my own thoughts, about what I could have and what I could do. I am looking at it realistically, and for right now, my focus is on my healing and taking care of my kiddos.
Bampot is not worth my time. Bampot is not worth much to me. The man I married, the man he was, and who he could have been is worth it to me, he just doesn't exist anymore. He may never be again.
This process isn't about him. This healing is about ME. I am heading down my path, changing with each step that I take. I am becoming something better. For that I am forever grateful.
Thanx for sticking around with me and for caring enough to want better for me, it is greatly appreciated.
You are so amazing that now I want to be both you and Pep when I grow up! Of course at this rate, I may NEVER grow up.
You are so amazing that now I want to be both you and Pep when I grow up! Of course at this rate, I may NEVER grow up.
Pep can correct me if I am wrong, but growing up is OVERRATED.
You know Pep, I don't have a problem with criticism. I usually think about that and see if I feel like it has some merit. When it comes to praise, I don't feel like I deserve it. Hmmmmmm I should think about that more.
SW, I KNOW that I have begun to heal. It is still a long road for me, I have accepted that. Being in Plan B has helped me, A LOT. I know that if I had not been in Plan B, I would be a royal mess right now. Again, thank you for your concern and know that I AM listening. Even if you advice is not used right now, it may well be in the future. Who knows? Not me, I'm just along for the ride.
One thing I have realized with this journey of being betrayed and working through personal recovery is that whether criticized or praised no one else defines you
Having an open mind to reflect on incoming comments and pausing to consider them is helpful but what we feel about ourself at each juncture and how we proceed with that self knowledge is, or seems to be, the little magical prize of the intense emotional journey.
Reading, thanx for that. It isn't just about my personal recovery that I have a problem with accepting compliments. I lost weight this past year and a half, and anytime someone would say something about it, I had a problem accepting the compliment. I think it's more about me feeling like I can always do better. I need to just learn how to say "Thank you" as Pep suggested.
Scotty, I used to be that way as well until someone called me on it, they said stop it just say "Thanks". It was a moment that I realized that I could just take the compliment for what it was, just a compliment.................it's been easy since then............ jessi
You know Pep, I don't have a problem with criticism. I usually think about that and see if I feel like it has some merit. When it comes to praise, I don't feel like I deserve it. Hmmmmmm I should think about that more.
My point is, give both praise and criticism equal importance.
"Thank you"
That balances things out, IMO.
If you accept criticism but not praise, you're not in balance.
Thanx for the wisdom Pep. I will definitely work on that.
I just thought about something. It is possible that I am more willing to accept criticism because I am always looking for ways to improve. When I receive a compliment, it feels wrong because I KNOW I could do better. I guess accepting praise with a Thank you, isn't about being finished, just about celebrating the little steps. I told you this growing up thing is overrated. Geez, thinking, becoming a better person, it sure is a lot harder than hiding under a rock.
I think you have to heal at your own pace. For me, it's strange - I very much dislike my WH now, but I still think back fondly of good times we had together and miss it. I'm ready to move on past him, but everyone goes at their own pace.
I think you're doing great, and being strong! Is there any reason why you aren't ready to start the divorce? Are you just not at that place yet?
GOOD FOR YOU taking charge of your life though! And always take compliments!
The short answer is that I am just not ready to be divorced yet. Plain and simple. I am trying to recover from all of the betrayal and hurt. I am trying to become a whole person. When I think about filing for a divorce(even typing it right now) my stomach sinks. I am not ready for that, right now. I am at the stage right now where I KNOW that I don't need Bampot to come back. I KNOW that I can do this on my own, because I AM doing this on my own and I have been for almost 16 months. I am laughing again. I am not all the way back to who I was, but I am working on a better version anyways.
Also, I FIRMLY believe in MB and DrH and Plan B lasting 2 years sounds a good base line. For me, I resolved, and you can re-read my thread to see it, that I would Plan B for a MINIMUM of 2 years. I have my own time limit that is actually a bit longer than those 2 years, but after Dec 18th, this year, I will re-evaluate where I am at and what I am ready for.
Again, thank you for the look-out. It is GREATLY appreciated. It is odd to know that I have so many people in my life who want what is best for me. It feels good. Thank you all.
I just thought about something. It is possible that I am more willing to accept criticism because I am always looking for ways to improve. When I receive a compliment, it feels wrong because I KNOW I could do better.
Reality check:
"Boys, when someone compliments you, it should feel wrong to you. Because you should always keep in mind you could have done better. Rememberr boys, you are never good enough."
Would you advise this as a life strategy for your boys? Of course not.
If it's not good solid advice/counsel for the boys, it's not right for you either.
Also, when someone makes a compliment, it is polite to thank them rather than advising them on why their good opinion of you is unwarranted.
I just thought about something. It is possible that I am more willing to accept criticism because I am always looking for ways to improve. When I receive a compliment, it feels wrong because I KNOW I could do better.
Reality check:
"Boys, when someone compliments you, it should feel wrong to you. Because you should always keep in mind you could have done better. Rememberr boys, you are never good enough."
Would you advise this as a life strategy for your boys? Of course not.
If it's not good solid advice/counsel for the boys, it's not right for you either.
Also, when someone makes a compliment, it is polite to thank them rather than advising them on why their good opinion of you is unwarranted.
Just fishing here, because I think I understand where Scotty is coming from, and also where Pep is also.
So when someone gives you praise, you can thank God for it, that someone thinks so highly of you, knowing that it is a gift for the moment, and that it is only a human perspective. But it is heartfelt and you just say thanks, because all interaction is valuable.
You can turn it around when critisized, and say thank you, because you are thankful for thier respect and trust that you are humble enough to listen, because then again all interaction is valuable.
But in the end, what others think and say, is only thier perception anyways, good or bad positive or negative, the easy answer is thanks because they don't know all the answers anyways for you, and you know that also, as life is still unfolding, and life is good. Even the tough parts.
Oh BTW, I love your objectivity and willingness to stand on your own Scotty Rocks. You have come a long way, and I see it also, if thats worth anything to you.
Well Pep, I did say that I was a work in progress and progress I will, whether I like it or not.
I think that main times when I can't seem accept a compliment is when I have not done 100% to achieve whatever they are complimenting me on. There are two things that fall into this category. First, when people compliment me on my weight loss. I know that I have lost a lot of weight and I am proud of the accomplishment, only once they say, "Wow, you look great....." I think, "I ate chips yesterday," or "I drank coke last week." I feel guilty. The other time is on here. Whenever someone says that I am doing a good job at Plan B, I think, "I looked at him through the window," "I thought about him yesterday," "I looked at her FB(that one time, but still)." And, I feel guilty again.
Pep, you're right, I wouldn't advise anything of the sort to my children. I will now act as though my children are always watching(even when they aren't around), and I will act as I would wish them to act.
Wow, this personal recovery thing just isn't easy, eh. I have learned, and I will do as advised. You haven't steered me wrong Pep. Thank you.
First, when people compliment me on my weight loss. I know that I have lost a lot of weight and I am proud of the accomplishment, only once they say, "Wow, you look great....." I think, "I ate chips yesterday," or "I drank coke last week." I feel guilty. The other time is on here. Whenever someone says that I am doing a good job at Plan B, I think, "I looked at him through the window," "I thought about him yesterday," "I looked at her FB(that one time, but still)." And, I feel guilty again.
Here's an AA slogan.
Progress, not perfection.
I need to read/write this often. So, it's not just about you, it's about me as well.
The kiddos are spending the night with Bampot. I talked to DS10 for a few minutes. It's crazy. I miss them. This is the third time that they have stayed there. It is going to become a regular thing.
I wanted to go out and do something, anything, but I am sick. I am watching a comedy and then I think I am going to go to sleep. When I wake up, it will be a trigger day though. It's Bampot's birthday. I will make it. I did it last year. It's just any other day(funny, that's what Bampot used to say too). I wrote it on our calendar, as I write all friend and family birthdays, but I didn't remind the kids. That's not my job anymore.
The kiddos are spending the night with Bampot. I talked to DS10 for a few minutes. It's crazy. I miss them. This is the third time that they have stayed there. It is going to become a regular thing.
I wanted to go out and do something, anything, but I am sick. I am watching a comedy and then I think I am going to go to sleep. When I wake up, it will be a trigger day though. It's Bampot's birthday. I will make it. I did it last year. It's just any other day(funny, that's what Bampot used to say too). I wrote it on our calendar, as I write all friend and family birthdays, but I didn't remind the kids. That's not my job anymore.
LOve ya scotty , can relate, hope and pray you can find peace.
Definitely peace Scotty. You will have a lovely weekend!
And chin up. I have knowledge that their lalalaland affairey spot is probably NOT going well by now. Honeymoon (no make that sh(tmoon) is probably over for good by now.
By this time when my xh and his wistress wifey were in this age of their situation, he was already cheating on her and wishing he'd never gone down the path he did.
But YOUR JOB now is being a fabulous mother, a beautiful NEW WOMAN, and a woman with a sense of humor and a fabulous life. That my friend, is your job. Only those worthy of you, are allowed in it
Hugs to you and have a fabulous day tomorrow! When my son would be on visitation, I would have a long, wonderful bubble bath whenever I'd wake up! Then I'd go to starbucks and read the newspaper. Taking my time. And then I'd go usually (if weather was nice) and take a long walk at a lovely park or trail.
I hereby declare today Compliment Practice Day for Scotty, wherein anyone so moved gives her a compliment, and she graciously replies with a simple "thank you".
Scotty, your courage is an inspiration. I can see the grace and character of Christ in your example.
Scotty, you are an inspiration to many people who are in turmoil and those of us who who have supported you. Your dedication to your children is so apparent in all you say and do. I am so happy to consider you a friend.
Scotty, you are an inspiration to many people who are in turmoil and those of us who who have supported you. Your dedication to your children is so apparent in all you say and do. I am so happy to consider you a friend.
Scotty, you are amazing. You have the strength to do what I don't know if I could ever do. You were awesome when I was dealing with my stuff this time last year, always reminding me to stay dark(!), and, well, you are just an inspiration for everyone, old and new.
Scotty, I would have been totally lost without your constant guidance these past few months. You've been both an advisor and a friend and I value you for both. I'm blessed to have you in my life. You have also prevented me from being a HaG! Kudos and hugs to you! H&G
Scotty, you are the bees knees! You are a tremendous mother and an awesome woman. I am priveledged and honored to call you my friend. You have a heart of gold that is under-appreciated by those around you, yet you don't let that deter you from being who you are. You do inspire and motivate and have helped so many others around you, not the least of which me. God bless and rock on!!
Scotty, you are amazing. You have the strength to do what I don't know if I could ever do. You were awesome when I was dealing with my stuff this time last year, always reminding me to stay dark(!), and, well, you are just an inspiration for everyone, old and new.
I would have been totally lost without your constant guidance these past few months. You've been both an advisor and a friend and I value you for both. I'm blessed to have you in my life.
Thank You.
Quote
You have also prevented me from being a HaG!
And leave it to you to have me laffing through tears. Thank You, I needed that.
Scotty, you are the bees knees! You are a tremendous mother and an awesome woman. I am priveledged and honored to call you my friend. You have a heart of gold that is under-appreciated by those around you, yet you don't let that deter you from being who you are. You do inspire and motivate and have helped so many others around you, not the least of which me. God bless and rock on!!
Neak, it is funny how things like this happen when you need them most. I have been struggling for the past week and a half. I don't know why. I have been reevaluating everything and still thinking about what MF said to me months ago. I have had a lot to think about. This personal recovery gig sucks azz sometimes, but it is all a process to get me out better and healed on the other side.
Thank you to you all for being here. I couldn't have done it without all of you. You have been an answer to a prayer in a way I never knew possible. I am HONOURED to be a member of such an amazing community. You all ROCK.
So, tonight is the second in the new norm of DSx2 spending the night with Bampot and WF. It will occur every other Saturday. Anyways, I am trying to get okay with it. I asked DS10 to call me at 8pm, to say "g'night." He called at 8. I was out with my parents. DS10 says, "I tried calling the house first but there was no answer." I said, "Yes, cuz I am out." Then I asked if he had a good day. He said, "Yup." He told me how he watched Fast and Furious. I told him that there were now 5 movies in the series and he needed to catch up. Then I asked him if they had gone outside today, since it was a very nice day out. He said, "We went to orig IMs house." I asked, "With OW?" He said, "Yes." It was like a punch in the gut. I tried to not let my annoyance show, since I wasn't annoyed with DS10, and I tried to change the subject before letting him go. I don't know that I pulled it off though.
I was MADDDDDDD. This is another time when Bampot is lucky that I don't talk to him. I felt the AO rising inside me. I even wanted to call my original IMs and ask them why they would let HER in their house. I was sooooo ANGRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
Then, I started to think about this the right way. It's just like I told Mehr last week, the APs need to make their A okay. They need to try to reintegrate into the "norm." This is so they can prove that they did nothing wrong. Also, I find it funny that Bampot would reach out to these friends first. He didn't even "introduce" OW to his mother yet. It has taken him 16.5 months to start reintegrating his new life into his old, or at least trying. It could be for a multitude of reasons, none of which would make any sense to any normal thinking human being.
"They" are going to be moving into a house together at the end of May. "They" are making their life "spectacular." Glad I am not that closely involved in it all. Although, it is still too close for me. I can't ask my children not to tell me what happens at all. I jut need to learn how NOT to react to it right away.
My mom was really mad at my orig IMs. I told her that she did the same thing when she was in her A. She never sees the connections and I think it is funny. Fog is still thick with that one.
On another note, still keeping my fingers crossed about that promotion. I think I can, I think I can.
I am going to spend some time reading. It's a good stress reliever and helps me.
I was more angry with the orig IMs than anything else. I know wayturds suck azz, so no surprise there. The boys and I were invited to a reunion in Aug. I wrote to the IMs and asked if they had told Bampot, so I could make my decision about going. That was the only outward reaction that the orig IMs have seen about this. They don't even know that I know.
After posting about it, I actually started to feel a bit better.
Bampot and I didn't have many friends. There weren't many people we interacted with, and most not even on a monthly basis.
I just felt so defeated today. There is NO ONE fighting this stinking affair but ME. I sometimes feel the weight of it on my shoulders. ARGH. I eventually pull myself together because it's what survivors do, and by golly, if nothing else, I WILL SURVIVE THIS. My original Google search, which led me here was, "How to survive your husband's affair." That was the answer to my prayer. This place.
On another note, again, because that's how my scattered brain seems to be working tonight, I accepted compliments today. I said, "Thank you." I even smiled a couple of times.
I just felt so defeated today. There is NO ONE fighting this stinking affair but ME. I sometimes feel the weight of it on my shoulders. ARGH.
As defeating as this can be, the fight you are giving is making you a better, stronger Scotty. "A Scotty forged in the fires of betrayal..." (<-- that's my sleep-deprived movie announcer voiceover)
Originally Posted by Scotland
On another note, again, because that's how my scattered brain seems to be working tonight, I accepted compliments today. I said, "Thank you." I even smiled a couple of times.
These are very good things! Thanks for reporting on that - I am happy for you!
Wayturds DO suck. But what else is new Scotty? Yes they're seeking legitimacy. Acceptance. It is so obvious that is what they do, but realize this (posted about this recently) that there is an integral part that is absent from when you hijack a marriage and the ws goes to be with a skanky ow or om. That would be the natural cycle of a relationship being interrupted.
You see, most m's where there is an affair isn't b/c the marriage was bad, it was b/c the spouse let their guard down and became selfish, letting the taker overtake them basically, and had awful boundaries.
That being said, if the ws doesn't end the affair and leaves the M for the affair, it runs on the fumes of hormones and it lasts about 2 years before something wierd and wild happens. Happened to my xh. Your bampot is nearing this time.
He didn't experience how the END of your marriage was, because he transferred his feelings,memories, history elsewhere into the affair. He didn't get to grieve normally. Heck most ow will not put up with seeing their wayturd cry over their wife. So the ws, especially a guy ws, will stuff it all in until suddenly one day, and that usually coincides with the addictive crazy suddenly in love hormones begin to subside. Their addictive feelings begin to run out and reality begins to hit them.
Then the depression and sadness enters. I'll never forget that time. It is obvious and my counselor (personal recovery) told me that is what would happen with my x. I remember mothers' day coming up and my son told him my vacuum had gone kaput. I didn't at the time have even enough $ to go buy one, so he marched out (xwh) and bought me a top of the line oreck. Yep. And had my son bring it over to me during this visitation time. And there was a crazy wierd almost sexually suggestive funny mothers' day card w/it too.
Then right after that was when the ow/wistress wife found my xh's secret hiding place, where he stashed away my plan B letter and my old wedding band in a plastic baggie and apparently she heard him crying one day. It pushed HER over the edge so she called to scold ME about it (trust me I pushed it over on HER!) Then a few weeks after that he tried the whole thing where he admitted to me (after he lied to me to get me to come meet him somewhere feigning it was b/c my son had an emergency during a visitation he had w/him) he missed "us" and regretted his affair marriage.
Right around the 2 year mark as my counselor said. Even the ow/wifey said that he would disappear into this large closet area and she'd hear him crying on and off for about a month. Grief had set in and the shock of what he'd done hit him full force.
It does happen. No matter how the idiots pretend and try to present that facade or normalcy. No matter how much fake legitimacy they obtain. They are not ever feeling grief. Like the old saying, they go "from into the frying pan right into the fire". No time to really end a relationship or process things, they simply jump from one thing to another and lie even to themselves, rewrite history so they can even be able to do these horrid, evil acts with their affair parnter, ruining families and destroying a once good marriage.
Sorry to hear the IMs were that messed up Scotty. You did have to change them because they were weak remember? Now Bampot is testing the waters, and like peachy said, the hormones and fantasy is running out.
"Where are all the other peaceful easy perfect things that come with the hormone rush we got?"
"Doesn't everybody understand we are in lurve?"
That crap has a shelf life, it will expire, and it stinks to high heaven.
Now there will be even less Bampot can feel good about, as he runs around trying to cover himself with a fig leaf before others, and he will find he just can't dance fast enough to even fool himself. This relationship was born out of dishonesty and escape, and nothing will give him security that it won't happen again.
But you know all this, and have been pondering it for some time.
Peachy hit the mail on the head, so there is nothing much more I can say. I am mad at the people in "affairland" too. You certainly have had a battle on your hands, but I know you will never break, your just too solid.
Hugs Scotty Rocks...How do you think your L Bank is holding out?
My LB balance for Bampot is still there, just not the same amount as before. I do believe that I had a pretty large balance at the beginning of Plan B, some of it from foggy romantic thinking about WHO Bampot really was. It might be an even better strategy for a BW to get into Plan B quickly so the possibility of a marital recovery is there up until the 2 year mark. She would need ALL the love she has to still want to recover, because the hits one can take, CAN deplete the LB quite quickly. That remaining part of me has being waging war against my Taker for a long time now. I would feel saddened to lose that part of myself. To be forever changed into someone who doesn't love Bampot anymore. THAT was almost too hard to write and keep on this thread. I almost edited it out. But I want this to be an honest representation, as always, of thoughts and feelings which I am having to better help those who come after me. After all, this is the best legacy I can leave on this forum, my thread.
So, believe it or not, this morning, when I awoke, my first thoughts WEREN'T about what transpired yesterday. I woke to thoughts of what I would do if I got that promotion. It is a HUGE step UP. I would actually be skipping a couple of rungs on the ladder to get there. That would be truly amazing. I thought about what I could do to better the workplace for all involved(as I have been in their shoes for the past 5+ years). I thought about what I could do and say to garner the mutual trust and respect that is required to lead. I also thought about the manager who would be leaving and how I wouldn't be able to fill her shoes, both in good and bad ways. How the best compromise is one where BOTH parties aren't entirely happy with the outcome. I actually was truly excited to think about all of this. I was smiling. And then, I remembered what happened yesterday, and it didn't affect me the way it had yesterday. I have recovered from the blow. Onwards and upwards. If only I could have the interview already so I won't always be so nervous when I go to work. ARGH.
Thank you all for your support. I am so blessed to have all of you here. I always know that someone will be here for me to vent to, and you all understand. It's not the same when I need to rely on venting on a foggy WW, my mom(she hasn't changed yet, so although her A is ended, I still call her a WW) or people who don't understand the way you all do. My mom always feels the need to defend HERSELF, or changes the subject to HER. Most times, it drives me NUTTY. But, she's my mom, and she is mostly harmless. My dad on the other hand, has been a SPECTACULAR help to me, and I believe I to him. Which is kind of funny, because growing up, he was very abusive(both physically and emotionally)and we weren't very close. But, those experiences, as long with everything else in my past, has molded me into the person I am today, as the experiences today are molding me into the person I shall become tomorrow. And then, my thank you list will be even larger. It's a good thing I won't need to make a speech at an awards show. I would run out of time with all of the "Thank Yous" that I would need to give.
So again, THANK YOU MB, even those lurkers who only read. You are represented in the view tally of this thread. Seeing the number rise, reminds me that I am not alone, even if you feel like you had nothing yourself to add. The support means a lot.
I just realized something else too. All the goings on of yesterday actually helped me get through the second night without DSx2. I am grateful for that too, although I could have thought of better ways to get through the night. I really have no problem giving thanks, I need to get better at accepting them. After all, if I wish mine to be accepted, it would be rude not to respond in kind.
Well, I am off to work now. Will today be the day of my interview? One can only hope.
I would feel saddened to lose that part of myself. To be forever changed into someone who doesn't love Bampot anymore. THAT was almost too hard to write and keep on this thread. I almost edited it out.
Thank you for this honesty.
Originally Posted by Scotland
Will today be the day of my interview? One can only hope.
Stunning as always. Your insight and honesty are amazing. I have great insight into other people...
All the best on your promotion, and you're still the same wonderful person whatever happens with it.
I totally get your feeling of aloneness in the fight against A's, both that specific one and infidelity in general. What's funny is any time I hear something like that, whether it's someone else or just me in my own head, the story of Elijah always pops into my head.
Right after Elijah had prayed on Mt. Carmel and fire fell from heaven, right after he had killed the 850 evil priests and prophets of Baal who led the children of Israel in burning their children alive, the very next morning, Elijah was running for his life because the queen was mad to lose her priests and threatened to kill Elijah.
In total panic, he ran off like a spooked horse, miles and miles into the wilderness. When he was finally calm enough that God could talk to him, God asked, "What are you doing here?"
Elijah poured out his feeling of being alone. "I'm the only one left who worships You, and now they're trying to kill me, tooooooooo."
I can almost hear the smile in God's voice as He informed Elijah, "Maybe you didn't realize, but I have 7,000 people on My side, who have NEVER bowed before Baal."
Even when we feel totally alone, it's only because we didn't know about the "7,000" who are fighting the same fight, and standing in the same power. You truly are not alone in your fight. We're here, and many, many more that we don't know about.
Still no interview. Good news though is that no one has had an interview yet, so they aren't just torturing ME. They will probably wait until after May 17th, since we are having inventory that day. Guess I still need to be ready for an interview every time I go to work.
The boys have arrived home unscathed from their night at the puke-shack.
Neak, I know that I am not the only one fighting affairs. I just sometimes feel overwhelmed and defeated when dealing with Bampot's A.
Maybe tommorow will be the day Scotty. They will be foolish not to hire you, you have a great head on your shoulders.
I from the stands, can see what others are seeing, but maybe you might not realize,(Internally recognize as real?. IDK, I am allways breaking down the launguage), that as you are going forward, while still in pain and with all the challanges facing us all in life, you are making better decisions, and building confidance on a firm foundation. I don't know what Bampot does for a living, or what "Profession" he practices, but if he is trying to sell that he is good marriage material, his foundation is one of shifting sand.
Those foundations are internal, and those who have strong ones recognize them in others, as we do in you. Heck, many of us would want strength like yours, and benifet from your support, as your example is also our support.
He is struggling too, yet he will not succeed in proving to himself that he was right in leaving, and as long as he lives this way everyone else will know it also, as well as POSOW. All the justification dances he does, and everything he does to make himself look good, up to and including even admitting he was wrong for the A, and for leaving to POSOW, and the children, will not a strong bond with anyone make. The only solution is to come home to you guys and admit it was him that was flawed.
So your foundation is strong, in that it is built on truth and solid ground inside you. His is weak, that it is built on lies and deciet whithin himself, and those shifting sands do not hold any weight.
I know I am not telling you anything you do not know allready inside yourself. Maybe I have a different way of looking at it and it helps, but mostly I just want to support you, because you show more guts and fortitude than a lot of so-called men. That strength is what I respect, not the fluff on the outside.
He can bring his horror show of what he wants to sell as his new , "life" around all he wants, and only fools will buy what he is selling. Yes there are plenty of fools in "affairland", and he might make some sales to other fools who also want to beleive in running away, but he can't fool himself without self-inflicted damage.
You are moving forward, and you will continue to move forward, whether he gets his act together or not.
Thank you for being you, and for sharing your life and story with us.
Thanx CP. You have helped me throughtout and for that I am grateful.
So, it is funny how the mind works, eh?(You all forgot I was Canadian didn't you? Tehee) This morning I woke up after having a dream where I was talking to Bampot. We were at my parent's house. We were talking on a familiar level and on one where he was still with OW, but was trying to come home(can you say wish granting dream? ARGH). Then, I started talking to OW(who was at my 'rent's house too) and she said, "I won." I said, "Oh yea, you won alright. What a booby prize you got there." I looked into Bampot's face and it hurt ME to say that about him, although I know right now that he is no prize. I still can't think about hurting him though, and my Taker is mad at me for it.
Anyways, when I woke up entirely, I came to two realizations. The first was that OW had blocked my email addy, way back when, and she never received the Plan B letter. She doesn't have the knowledge that he didn't pick me, I asked him to go and she was second choice. Darn it. I wish I had sent a hard copy too. The other realization that I had was WHY Bampot brought OW to Orig IMs house now. Bampot and OW are moving at the end of the month. He has taken the boys to see the new house(They currently live in a 2 bdrm upper apt BOY I KNOW TOO MUCH). I am almost certain that Bampot has asked orig IMs to use their truck to help them move. There are only 3 people that we know who own trucks. Orig IMs, my BIL(Who was Bampot's bestfriend until he pulled away due to his A), and my MIL. Out of those 3 choices, orig IMs are the less "harmful" ones to introduce OW to. It's really very sad. Now I am just surmising, as I can not know for certain(PLAN B AFTER ALL).
Plan B is like exercise. I have become more physically fit by going to my boxing classes. Now, when I walk up the stairs at the whirlpool, I don't need to rest as often, and the times I do, my breathing slows, and I am able to continue more quickly. The same thing happens with Plan B. When I do hear something, although it hits me like a tonne of bricks, at first, I recover much more quickly and am able to focus on me instead. I owe a debt of gratitude to all of you, and especially DrH, for that. Thank you for helping me become the person I am today. You guys ROCK.
Then, I started to think about this the right way. It's just like I told Mehr last week, the APs need to make their A okay. They need to try to reintegrate into the "norm." This is so they can prove that they did nothing wrong. Also, I find it funny that Bampot would reach out to these friends first. He didn't even "introduce" OW to his mother yet. It has taken him 16.5 months to start reintegrating his new life into his old, or at least trying. It could be for a multitude of reasons, none of which would make any sense to any normal thinking human being.
I cannot begin to tell you how impressed I am by your growth and maturity. I wonder if Bampot ever pulled his head out of his hindquarters if he would even be able to catch up with you in this area. You amaze, Scotty.
On another note, again, because that's how my scattered brain seems to be working tonight, I accepted compliments today. I said, "Thank you." I even smiled a couple of times.
right back at you, Scotty. I will pray about the promotion for you.
On a side note, I understand the inability to accept a compliment. It took me a long time to be able to do so, especially without prefacing the thank you with a self deprecating remark. I am still working on my H being able to do so. He does not like compliments and does not give them either.
Scotland, your WH has been with OW for a while now. Do you have a good life for yourself or are you still living it in the hope he comes back to you? I hope you are moving on nicely and not think of him too much. Not worth your time anymore. It has been too long and you seem like a really nice person who deserves to meet someone special.
swans, have you read Scotty's thread? Have you noticed how many times she has calmly, knowledgeably, and strongly cited her MB-counseled plans, her love for her H, and her commitment to personal recovery while she walks the path of the plans for her marital recovery?
Shame on you, swans, for coming to a marriage-building website to stir up contention and advocate for divorce, especially when a poster has made it abundantly clear - in a most intelligent and thoughtful manner, not that she need answer to any of us - that she is not pursuing that plan ATM.
Swans, not sure why you're really here, but this woman is A 100 PERCENT INSPIRATION and has been a champion for her marriage and family.
She has a plan already.
What's YOUR plan Swans? What is it about? Who are you here for? Your betrayed daughter? Or is it for you? And if you choose to answer, put it please on another thread.
Scotland, your WH has been with OW for a while now. Do you have a good life for yourself or are you still living it in the hope he comes back to you? I hope you are moving on nicely and not think of him too much. Not worth your time anymore. It has been too long and you seem like a really nice person who deserves to meet someone special.
With total of 10 posts I can only hope that this was an amatuer attempt at help with good intentions.
Read up some more on why we are here Swans, the whole site, because many of the people here are pit-bulls that are fighting tooth and nail for thier marriage.
I choose to belive the best Swan, but it still made me chuckle in the assumption that you were sincere, but you have a lot to learn yet. Its Ok we all do still..
Scotland, your WH has been with OW for a while now. Do you have a good life for yourself or are you still living it in the hope he comes back to you? I hope you are moving on nicely and not think of him too much. Not worth your time anymore. It has been too long and you seem like a really nice person who deserves to meet someone special.
Aw come on give her a break. I didn't think her post meant harm. I tend to not trust some newbies, but not sure "shame on you" is warranted (yet).
I am extremely hesitant to give a break to any poster who waltzes in here and starts advocating for divorce, ESPECIALLY when they are new to the site, clearly unversed in Marriage Builders concepts and principles, and utterly convinced that affairages last happily ever after....
Sorry, perhaps I'm overly sensitive. Perhaps CP is right, swans, and you "meant well." However, "meaning well" is no excuse for bad advice that runs counter to the principles of this site and the professed aim of the poster to whom such advice was delivered.
After I made my own monumental mistakes, I have very little tolerance for this sort of stuff. It's playing with fire.
swans, please read and educate yourself about Dr. Harley's concepts and the Marriage Builders program. It really is a solid piece of work, grounded in experience and education, (as Dr. H got a PhD in psychology), and has so much to offer.
You should not come here and spout something counter to the spirit of the thread or the decisions of the poster, esp one who has developed their plan according to MB way.
I read her original posts, and although she seems sincere, she does seem somewhat foggy about the nature of love and passion. A very peaceful seeming person albiet.
Swans, it like you wandered into a doctors office, and then found yourself in the operating room, trying to help, without learning the tools, or understanding the sickness.
Sorry but now your in with the big dogs, and we all have to lift our leg high to pee with them.
No personal insult to you. I know you meant well, but its not over yet, and encourgaing her to move on will not help her family, therefore Scotty.
Also, thank you to the rest of you who came to my defense. I am truly touched and honoured. You are some AMAZING people.
I was thinking about something Pep posted(geez, will you ever let me rest people? HEHEHEHE). When you said that I was polite when I accepted the compliment, I realized that all of those times, throughout my life, when I DIDN'T accept a compliment, I was being RUDE. I actually wanted to go to all of those people and apologize. I feel real remorse for that. And, honestly, Bampot was one of those people. He used to compliment me ALL of the time, and I would dismiss his compliments, and even talk poorly about myself after the dismissal. What a horribly rude thing for me to do.
I apologize profusely to all who can read this, whose compliments I didn't accept. I am eternally sorry for what I have done. I vow to become better at accepting compliments. Even when I feel unworthy of the compliment, I will accept it graciously. Thank you.
Swans, again to you, my wish is that you will learn something from this site to help you in your own life and the lives of people around you. Thank you.
May I ask you a question? My WH separated from me in Sept'10 in order to legitamize he living with POSOW. He is still deployed and I have done everything to kill the affair (filed adultery charges against them in the military, told all their commanders, our friends, his friends, and threatned to depose her when she returns, etc.)
Today I am in a dark Plan B to regain myself, and I have four small children that need me healthy.
My WH is currently deployed to his home country (naturalized citizen) and his mom is meeting many of the needs that I usually did for him when he is in the States. My take on his A is the POSOW used my WH to get what she needed from him while in his home country (i.e. he was the best looking man available, our marriage was rocky, he had the apartment connection, he paid for things for her, she used his car, etc...) Everyone I speak with that knows her at the Army base says she is a stuck up snot and they cannot believe my WH would do this with her. He was in the right place at the wrong time. By what I learn of her she likes to use men for what she needs and I know when they return Northern Virginia will have many more men (w/o my WH baggage) that she can leach on (God I hope!!!)
Of course her body is great and my WH is a very shallow man. With all this being said, I have deep hope that when they all return from deployment Ms. POSOW will likely dump my husband because of several factors
1) In July he starts paying me 1/2 his salary for CS 2) He is going into the poor house super quick 3) He will barely be able to afford an apartment 4) I got her in a lot of trouble by filing adultery charges against them in the military.
I want to wait for my WH to fall because I think once she dumps him then he will need me for his EN's. We had 15 years together, four kids, and he literally just walked away in September. Not even one finger lifted from him to work on the marriage. I know from Dr. H and (Pepperband) a man in this state will feel his decisions one day.
I was thinking (actually threatned as part of my killing the affair) to file for divorce based on adultery. My game plan was just so I could depose the both of them and really make her life hell. My real goal is to only have her dump him so maybe he will come out of his dung fog.
I have four very small children and the greatest gift I can give them is to have their family whole. I know my WH well, and I met many of his EN's I just didn't meet #1 (Physical appearance) which by the time we see each other in September (CS hearing) I will be the wife of his youth.
I want to hold out hope without looking like a crazy lady in denial, but I really feel drawn to wait for him. Even if he divorces me I know within two year there will be one moment of opportunity to reconcile especially if look like the wife of his youth.
I depleted his bank by showing him I loved myself little by letting my health go. Today I am running, losing the weight, and managing four small kids with a full time job. I know when he sees that change his bank will have many deposits.
I feel drawn to you because you are also holding out hope. Should I go down the path of adultery by divorce in order to still try and kill the affair, or should I just wait it out and let him file? I am trying to see if there is a way to depose her without filing. I will speak with my lawyer on Friday about this.
Do you sometimes feel GOD giving you that act of patience? I often feel waiting for my WH is what GOD in my heart is saying. He is giving me the strength to find peace, calmness, and hope that my marriage can still be reconciled. Which is what I truly want for myself and my four babies.
Use away friend. It is my pleasure to be of some service to you. It's my way of paying back.
There actually was a line in HP Order of the Phoenix where Dumbledore says something about doing what's right, and doing what's easy. My DS10 even mentioned it, and now I believe he thinks about it daily. He even talked about Bampot and how he isn't doing what's right, so it must be easy. What a smart young man I have.
Use away friend. It is my pleasure to be of some service to you. It's my way of paying back.
There actually was a line in HP Order of the Phoenix where Dumbledore says something about doing what's right, and doing what's easy. My DS10 even mentioned it, and now I believe he thinks about it daily. He even talked about Bampot and how he isn't doing what's right, so it must be easy. What a smart young man I have.
Well, she definitely got attention, I just don't think it was positive attention. But, as they say, "No publicity is bad publicity." She was most definitely talked about, all over the WORLD.
Itistoughlove, here's a big ol' hug for you. Sorry I have taken so long to respond to you. I hadn't forgotten, just had to get the kiddos from school, fed, watered and then some mommy time until bedtime. Now, I can focus and give you the attention you deserve, as I never take these kinds of things lightly. Have you read this entire thread? Just curious. If not, I suggest you do. Time consuming, but I am CERTAIN you will find some things in it very useful. BTW, do you have a thread where all of your info is? This way, I can catch up on your sitch and help you too.
First, your WH's A was NOT about how OW looked. It was about HIS weak boundaries. There have been men and women who work around good looking people and don't have affairs. Weak boundaries around members of the opposite sex puts one in a position where someone else can meet their ENs and they can fall in love. It's what can and most likely WILL happen. And I don't believe, anymore, that your WH is shallow by liking the way a woman looks. It IS an EN after all.
Don't focus on reasons WHY OW WILL dump your WH. That is of no concern to you anymore. Also, it is more likely that you will become disappointed when she doesn't. Your focus should not be on your WH and his OW. I know it is hard. I slip sometimes myself(you will read it in this thread). But, I KNOW the benefits that I gain from a DARK Plan B, and I right my course once again(sometimes with the help of these AMAZING people on this site).
DrH and Pep are right, a man in this sitch WILL feel poorly about his decisions ONE DAY. Thing is, you have no idea how long that will take. Your Plan B should be about what YOU want. It should have NOTHING to do with what your WH does, or doesn't do. I have an end date for my Plan B, at which point, if my WH isn't home, I will file for D. It is longer than the 2 year mark, but it isn't something that I wish to share with anyone else. I may change my mind after all. But my MINIMUM time in Plan B will be until this coming December. On December 19, 2011, I will re-evaluate my feelings and decide if I should stay the course. Thing is, whether I get a D or not, I WILL NOT TALK TO MY WH DIRECTLY UNTIL HE HAS ENDED HIS A WITH OW.
ALL of the things that you do should be because it is who YOU want to be. Your personal appearance should have NOTHING to do with what your WH would like. I KNOW what it is like to think, "If I have my hair this way, WH would like that. If I dressed in this shirt, and pants, WH would like that." It's normal, at first. Later, you will gain the confidence to look inside and see who YOU want to be and you will stop wanting to please your WH with your appearance, because after all, he shouldn't be seeing you anyways.
As far as the advice about filing for D, I would talk to your lawyer about it. I adhere to the advice from DrH which says that if you want a D, then file for a D. BUT, if you need to legally cover yourself by filing, or if you can gain an advantage over your WH by filing first, I would weigh all of the options and do what I felt right, with NO REGRETS.
Once again I am amazed at the power of this site, and more importantly the class and genuine care for others routinely displayed. Scotty, you are a clas act and still the Bee's Knees lil sis!
Pep, thanks for pointing out the lesson regarding making choices based on comfort. Reminded me of the typical wayward "right to be happy" twisted philosophy.
We have an often used statement in the Army describing this. "Choose to take the hard right over the easy wrong.". It is an attribute of a good leader.
Oh and by the way,I'm in the camp that swans was trying to be well meaning, just not well informed. One of the issues with annonymous forums I guess and being new to the site. Hopefully she will stick around and read and learn.
Scotty, I think you are doing awesome and doing the right thing for you and your family. Don't second-guess yourself because you are doing what is right for YOU. You are taking that hard right and are an inspiring leader.
Lil Mrs Pep. You forgot to mention the side effect of accepting compliments.......I GET MORE. Are you freaking kidding me? I went to work today, and I was dressed quite nicely. Every time someone said, "You look nice today." I would smile and say, "Thank you." Then, it happened. MORE PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT TOO. Oh, Pep, I was definitely NOT comfortable today. I did good.
Lil Mrs Pep. You forgot to mention the side effect of accepting compliments.......I GET MORE. Are you freaking kidding me? I went to work today, and I was dressed quite nicely. Every time someone said, "You look nice today." I would smile and say, "Thank you." Then, it happened. MORE PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT TOO. Oh, Pep, I was definitely NOT comfortable today. I did good.
Think of it this way ... You're spreading the joy around.
An alternative to the "thank you" is .... "You're so very kind." A return compliment. Or, "Thanks, you made my day."
Coincidentally, my MD is "going up" too. Where no man should ever go. More biopsies. I have adjusted my attitude about this and I fully anticipate good news.
Compliments are like feedback. You find out you're doing something right. I think of compliments as encouragement. Feedback that helps us learn when we are on the right track.
On the other hand .... there is flattery. Beware of flattery.
Quote
flattery |ˈflatərē| noun ( pl. -teries) excessive and insincere praise, esp. that given to further one's own interests : his healthy distrust of courtiers' flattery.
Once we trust ourselves to discern between a sincere compliment and flattery, we are much more "comfortable" at accepting compliments.
Here's an example of flattery. I'm just using this example because it was from this thread (a thousand posts ago) and it is pretty harmless, so it's safe to use.
"WWPD?" <~~~ Now, I know that this was just a silly joke.
"What would Pep do?" <~~~ A compliment UNLESS it is side by side with what Jesus would do.
But IF the comparison to Jesus was serious (it was not) that would make "WWPD?" flattery. It would be flattery beyond the pale. What if I misunderstood the comparison to Jesus as truth? I'd be in deep doo-doo.
Scotty, I think you are learning to accept compliments because you trust yourself more.
I suspect "flattery" might have been used as some sort of manipulation when you were in your formative years.
Let's see, what has happened in Scotty-ville this week? On Tuesday, my cousin and my BIL's GF both had their first children. I am so excited. My BIL's GF is sick with an unknown illness, but hopefully she will make a quick and full recovery.
Also, DS10 had track and field at his school level. He came in 1st in triple jump, 1st in long jump, 3rd in 200m and 4th in 100m. He still has to do high jump next week, but he will be going to the city finals for the jumps so far.
Today, I had my first interview for the manager job. It went well, but of course, as always, I have been figuring out things that I could have said. I am going to have a second interview(most likely) so I will use those answers then.
Yesterday, was a pretty rotten day on the DSx2 front. DS8 took 2 hours to go into school. Then he refused to go to the speech therapy assessment. It was a rough day for him. When we returned home, DS10 was mad at DS8 because they were banned on roblox for obscene language. DS10 blamed DS8, but DS8 denied it. I looked into it and it was actually DS10. I grounded him and banned him from Roblox.
Today, I had my interview. I went to my boxing class, and then my cell rang. It was the school. The principal told me that DS8 wanted to take a teddy bear to the movies, on a school trip, and that they told him he couldn't. He left school property. So, he was suspended. ARGH. At least this all happens at the same time so I can get over it all at once. Now I just need Bampot to do something to upset me.
Pep, I am thinking about what you wrote. I am learning about myself. That's a good thing.
I Allways liked the joke, "Flattery will get you everywhere"
OK, I am not seeking to educate, but that was funny compared to the normal "Stop the Bullchit" statement of "Flattery will get you nowhere" when someone is kissing up.
So when some says the first one, its the same difference to me, but with a warning of " Hey, I thought you were my friend, don't let me down, I am trusting you and vulnerable."
Sorry for your crazy day. I hate compliments also. i learned to say, "why that is so nice of you to say, and you look great...." or you could learn to say thank you, but you have to get used to it. but i see you are doing a great job.
I didn't get the manager job. Found out today. I didn't even have a second interview, and that bothered me more.
If the person whom I think will get it, actually does, it should be interesting.
When the personnel manager told me, I said, "Well, I guess I am going to have to find a new job." She then tried to tell me about the other opportunities that I could have with the company. My response, No thanks. This was my chance with the company and I didn't get it, nor do I really want it anymore. I only thought about how much easier my life would be with the extra money and me getting a car. It's okay though. I actually didn't want to become a lifer anyways. There are other plans for me and my career. I keep asking for a job that would be fulfilling and allow me more time with my kids. This job wasn't it.
I will be on the lookout for the opportunities that are ahead of me so I don't miss something. Here I go.
Hey Scotty sorry for them they picked the wrong person for the job.
As far as management goes, many times you are crossing a line in professional attitudes, and personalities. If you allready see that things are not up to par with your standards, and I am assuming the person they hired will not be helping to fix that either, then you probably need to find somewhere that fits you better.
Sometimes they want you to just fit into what is allready established, and are afraid of people with new ideas. The big,"Change comes slowly", thing. Someone who gets along with everybody and wishes to make changes can be a great friend to their fellow co-workers, and understand issues, but upper management is intimidated by that. Trying to keep everthing calm and on an even keel.
From what I know about you, you allready see that, and understand it also. Maybe its not that way at yur job, but at any rate, you should look into what kind of organization, or maybe even a career, that carries your same core values such as a mission statement. Maybe a similar position in the same industry with better management opportunities.
The skys the limit Scotty, I would hire you in a heartbeat.
Thank you all for the responses, I hadn't seen them before now.
So, DS8 told me yesterday that he saw Bampot and OW kiss. YUCK. I asked him what he did or said, and he said, "Nothing." Oh, how I wish I hadn't learned about that. Apparently, it was the second time they had witnessed them kiss. DOUBLE YUCK.
Last night, we were talking, and I said, "One day, after I am divorced, I may date someone again. How would you guys feel?" DS10 said, "Make sure that guy is nicer than Daddy." DS8 said, "Yea." Oh that was heartbreaking. But, they actually mean it.
I think that if Bampot wanted to come home, he would have a harder time convincing DSx2 to let him back. That is one of the saddest statements I have ever written. That was never something I wanted for my children. I feel like I was fooled for a long time. How could it be that my children see someone different than what I see?
I think that the main reason is because Bampot, as far as I can tell, started the A when DS10 was about 7 and DS8 was about 4 or 5. Bampot would go through great lengths to keep OW out of our life. At that, he had to keep the children out of the room when he would communicate. He also became very impatient and uncaring towards DSx2. He was MISERABLE, but only when I wasn't home. And I didn't really know about it all, until now.
I am even more grateful for MB since I have found this out. I saved my poor DSx2 more anguish by going into Plan B.
Now, about finding a new job/career. See, the worst part about my job is that I have to lie. They call it creative truth telling, but it is lying. I HATE lying. I work at a customer service desk for a major retailer. We need to worry about how we say things so we don't get the company into trouble. I don't need to lie often, but it is often enough to be of a bother. Am I just naive, or are there actually jobs where you don't need to lie?
I don't think retail of for me. I still need to find what IS a good choice for me. I'll figure it out. Just hope it's sooner rather than later.
How could it be that my children see someone different than what I see?
Because they are not you. Because they are their own persons. Because they view life & situations without your lenses. Because children prefer to navigate via simple straight lines and not twisted attempts at logic.
Keep an even darker plan B. It's good they tell you things like the kissing thing. But do know that when you find out things like this, it gives a huge withdrawal to the dwindling love bank left.
I remember when I saw my xwh with the then pregnant ow kiss her on the cheek it withdrew almost all of anything left and the d documents went out the door shortly from my attny.
But..then again it is necessary for the kids to be able to, with THEIR RATIONAL PARENT, discuss things that hurt and bother them too.
Personally, maybe its' time for you to consider keeping the kids from seeing this. Like no custody for Bampot right now.
I mean, showing displays of affection like that when one party is married is DAMAGING to children.
Personally, if it were me, this would be something I'd not let my kids do anymore. If it is causing emotinal pain to them, I'd call an attny or the courts to see what to do in this case to help the kids. Clearly bampot isn't into being the super-parent. Just wants to give the illusion he is even trying probably.
Hugs Scotty. Btw, they picked the wrong person! YOU however, will find the right job at a place that will bring out the best in you, and a place where your inner truth can shine!
I agree with Peachy, and you are a very deep and contientiuos person Scotty. You should be doing what you beleive in and not in sales.
Hmm I wonder do astronauts have to lie? You have a bend towards the sciences right? How about something technical like a lab rat? I used to write SOPs for a company so they could get low paid employees, but if you got into something like that you can work your way up.
My son is in sales and a manager at an AT&T store selling phones, and I don't know how he does it. Selling someone something they probably don't need. I could never do it with a clear conscience. Its pretty stressful.
Find that dream career and go for it, you qualify for that kind of thing, you have your feet on the ground.
she is in Canada. She will have a very difficult time keeping the children from Bampot. It is best that she is able to work with the boys to navigate through this painful process together. As they age they can make the choice to not see their father.
Scotty,
we often don't see our spouses in the clear light of day. It is ok that your children can see truth easier. How else do we love an imperfect human being? It makes me sad that they had to watch their father push them away so he could have his fix. Ask the child of a drug addict how much attention they got from the addicted parent.
You continue to look forward and provide them with the security they need. Teach them how to treat a wife since he is not capable at this time at doing this. Surround them with healthy marriage examples.
Had a close encounter of the wayward kind while driving to work. Bampot was stopped at a light, and I was behind him. I followed up 2 more lights and then turned. Couldn't figure out a better way to get outta there more quickly.
Then, I come to find out that Bampot took the boys to my niece's(his sis's DD) bday party. While he was there, BIL and his GF and their new baby were there too. This BIL is married to Bampot's sis, but she had an A 6 years ago and has 2 OCDS with OM. They aren't D from either of their respective spouses, but are engaged. Wayturds really do such azz. Anywho, Bampot was holding their baby(DSx2 told me that). Also, BIL talked to Bampot and invited him over to their house. ARGH.
Am I the ONLY one trying to fight or my marriage? Seriously. I feel like I just keep losing and the stinking wayturds in my life get everything back to the "norm" only with ME removed. ARGH. First my orig IMs and then the people who were a real support to me.
I know that BIL and Bampot were best friends. We used to joke, before SIL and BIL split, that if they split, we wold never see SIL again since we were such good friends with BIL. I am pretty sure that BIL believes that he can talk some sense into Bampot, the nice way. He just doesn't get it. Bampot doesn't have to face any consequences that way. ARGH ARGH DOUBLE ARGH.
I know I give all of those in Plan B a kick in the rear and tell them not to focus on their WS. I do that, most of the time. Problem is, sometimes, I get kicked down and it takes me by surprise.
Oh, also, when DSx2 came onto the porch to come home(it's an enclosed porch), I heard Bampot's voice. He was on my porch. And that just reminded me, this morning, I also heard his voice over the phone since we didn't have the TV on when DS10 was talking to him and he was sitting beside me on the couch. DS10 is usually somewhere else when he is talking to Bampot.
See, a whole day of cracks in Plan B and for what? To have me feeling depressed and sad, crying all night. Oh, that's very productive. ARGH ARGH ARGH.
I am going to go off and read Percy Jackson The Lightning thief.
H&G, I read The Last Dragon book. I must say, I wasn't too pleased with the ending. Overall, a pretty good book, but to those who haven't read The Hunger Games, or the Eragon series, those are really worth the read.
Bampot took the boys to my niece's(his sis's DD) bday party. While he was there, BIL and his GF and their new baby were there too. This BIL is married to Bampot's sis, but she had an A 6 years ago and has 2 OCDS with OM. They aren't D from either of their respective spouses, but are engaged.
Wait a minute. You mean that your husband's sister had a party for her child and invited her wayward husband and the other woman (and their baby)? And she is also wayward (with multiple other children) and the other man was there as her date? And your wayward husband was at this party with his other woman? None of them are "with" the person they are married to?
Those people are . . . .interesting.
I'm sorry you had a such a difficult day with your Plan B. Yes, distraction is a good thing. A very good thing.
>>>>Am I the ONLY one trying to fight or my marriage?
Sure looks like it, and what a damned shame. These people are shameless. I'm so sorry for all you've gone through. You might be starting to grieve deeply, imo sometimes the sobbing is necessary to break on through to the other side. At least it was for me. And you will know in your heart you gave it your all and can look in the mirror with dignity. I don't know how people like this face themselves in the morning. The problem is I don't think they do. Peace (((Scotland)))
Hi Scotty, I know the feeling. It is terrible to run into them and then find out what a filthy life they lead and the people they hang out with. But I do not think they give a rat's behind about it. We see it the way it is: a bad, terrible way of life/ They see it differently: their life, not bad at all.
Can we really hope that people like our WHs will ever snap out of it? The way they are now it will take a miracle. WOuld you want to be with your WH a minute knowing he was capable of this kind of behavior even towards your kids? How can you forgive something like this... And can you imagine him going back to the nice guy he was?! Because now he has chosen a different path, a path of destruction where he is becoming more and more tangled into the sewage of the A and the people who approve of it. He will smell bad even if he gets out of the sewage...he has been in it too long. Oh (((((Scotty)))) blessing
I had a long night with a lot of things running through my mind. I came to some realizations, and honestly, I haven't even given up on Bampot, yet.
FWIW, Bampot didn't bring his OW to the party, she hasn't even met any of his family yet. Doesn't mean much to me. It's just odd. I couldn't even begin to try to figure out why, so I just don't worry about it.
My BIL and his GF are a great support to me and my children. I just hope he continues to support us. I don't fault him for moving on and making a new life with someone else. His marriage was truly over the last time my SIL left him. She took their DD with her and filed a complaint with the police that he had been sexually abusing their 3 year old. She then kept her away from him for 8 weeks until he got a judge to order her to let him see his DD. The charges were found to be wrong and actually my DN told the police, when asked why she said that Daddy had touched her, "Mommy told me to tell you that."
I DO know what lengths a wayward will go to. I have seen it all play out in the family around me. It is sickening. I have never accepted my SIL's OM. And, some of you may remember the FB exchange SIL and I had a year ago.
My BIL and SIL have a version of a fantasy divorce even stranger than any I could imagine. They aren't even divorced though, so I don't know what you would call it. It's just weird.
Enough about my stranger than fiction tales, I wanted to let you all know that I am feeling better. Thank you all
Scotland, you are awesome!! I just joined and was advised to switch to SAA and somehow got in to your story. I am blown away by all I have read and I so look up to you. Thank you so very much!!!!
Hey Scotty, Sorry to hear you didn't get the job you wanted; but there are better doors to open for you.
As far as fighting for your marriage and what you believe in - good for you. Only you can steer the Scotty ship. I often wonder "what if" I had fought longer.
You have been an inspiration to so many here; an amazing mother to your children. I know how hard this path has been for you; but I believe that you will find the best at the end of the journey - whatever that may be.
I still believe that there is someone out there that will appreciate and cherish me and who I am. In spite of everything that has happened and all that you read about on this board; I still believe in marriage. For me though, xh had done to many horrible things and had become a person far from my own value system to be able to fight for. But one thing you and Pep have instilled is holding true to what you believe in.
For me this path has been incredibly hard; but I believe I am coming out a better person. As you are, just keep reminding yourself of that.
Thanx Mymissy, I have been thinking about you lately.
You know, I was noticing something lately.
MANY people are asking me if I am dating yet. I keep telling them, "I am still married." It's just easier than saying that I am not actually ready to date. Then, I have to explain that I don't believe in dating while I am still married. I know other people have, and I am not condemning any of them. It's just not a choice that I am going to make for myself.
Now, it seems that people pity me. Really? Why? They feel like it is time, and I should move on. I just tell them that I am not ready yet.
...Now, it seems that people pity me. Really? Why? They feel like it is time, and I should move on. I just tell them that I am not ready yet.
Lol yeah, really?...Who cares what they feel if its time or not? Its your bussiness anyways and who needs anybody telling them they are lacking or in need of anything?
Just more stuff that we all need to let roll off our backs..much like the friend who wants to get into your marriage because they, "care", about you. "You seem sad trouble at home?" "Isn't Whathis/her name cute gee I wish my husband/wife would..."
Yeah Scotty it never ends, guys I know are telling me about having a GF and life is short, lol, well I tell them I have plenty of girl freinds that I don't need a Mommy who promises never to leave me or a frind with benifets either.
Scotty, I don't travel all the same threads you do but I saw a couple of posts of yours today that were awesome.
I think you are a great person, and when you do decide to start dating some guy is going to hit the jackpot when he meets you. I hope hes smart enough to realize that.
Hey all. Not really much to update. I have been active on other threads, and reading a bunch of new books. I have found some favourite authors. It's been really nice to get lost in stories.
Last weekend, DS10(who will be 11 tomorrow) came home from "visiting" the puke shack and said, "I think daddy and EPB(evil princess beep-it's what they nicknamed her hehehehe) take showers together." I said, "What do you mean, while you are there?" He said, "Yea, daddy said he was going to take a shower and she went upstairs too." I held back my rage and said, "Well, you should talk to daddy about that. Did you think that was right?" He said, "No." Then we left it at that. Again, another time that Bampot should count his blessings that I am in Plan B, the AOs that were beneath the surface were unreal. I would have blown a gasket.
Then, yesterday, there is a call the the house phone for Bampot. I don't answer numbers that I don't recognize. It was a phone company wanting to leave a message for Bampot about the cell phone number he has. Apparently, he must still be using MY number as his own. TURD.
Also, last weekend, sent a message through IM about bringing DS10 home early tomorrow, as it is his Bday and we always have a family dinner with my parents, sis, bro and nieces. DS10 actually didn't even want to go to visit Bampot tomorrow, but I said, "It's father's day." He asked if he could come home earlier. I told him that I would see. Bampot's response was that he would let DS10 decide when to come home. Well, DS10 already decided, noon. HEHEHEHE I told him that he didn't need to come home that early, that 3 would be fine, so he decided 3 it is. What a funny kid.
My sister, who is D from her XWH, was talking to me today and then she said, "We need to go get some father's day giftS." I said, "For who?" She said, "XWH, XFIL, and dad." I said, "You buy HIM presents for father's day? You're divorced." She said, "I always do." I answered, "I don't and I am not divorced. Does he buy you mother's day presents?" She said, "No." Has everyone not on MB lost their freakin minds? OMG.
Still no lick on the job front. I have decided that I want to find a job that I would do even if I didn't get paid. Now, if I could only figure out what that is. Reading books does get you paid, but only if you are a proofreader or editor and I don;t think they need too many of them in Niagara. Hmmmmmm, thinking thinking.
HopeandGrace, if you are out there, know that I have read The last Dragon book. It was good, but I didn;t really like the ending. Wish there was more story.
Read "Red Riding Hood." Waste of my life for sure. I had heard the movie wasn't very good and now that I have read the book, I don't want to see it. I actually threw the book across the room.
In case anyone wants some good paranormal romance, I have been reading the Darkyn series by Lynn Viehl(her pen name). There are 7 books, 3 spin off, and then 5 novellas. I have been able to read about 1 book a day. They are definitely ADULT books though.
I guess this update turned more into a book review. Oh well, it's part of my life without Bampot now, and it is making me happy. I may even be joining a book club for paranormal romance novels. Should be fun. Take care MB community. And to those about to embark on Plan B, know that it WILL get better. I promise.
..DS10 actually didn't even want to go to visit Bampot tomorrow, but I said, "It's father's day." He asked if he could come home earlier. I told him that I would see. Bampot's response was that he would let DS10 decide when to come home. Well, DS10 already decided, noon. HEHEHEHE I told him that he didn't need to come home that early, that 3 would be fine, so he decided 3 it is. What a funny kid.
I don't know about funny, but that was very sweet. You can tell who he admires and trusts Mom.
You sound great Scotty. I don't worry about you but still is good to have an update. Good luck on the Job hunting, and I know what you mean about escaping into books, it used to be what I did ALL the time growing up lol. I still escape into them sometimes now, but not as much as I used to. I think I will start again it was a good habit. My favorite Author when I stopped reading was Michener, and I only read The covenent and Space so far lol, but I love his style. Of course read all the Twain books and Arthur Conan Doyle but still there is/was so much out there to read I need to dive into. The last novel I read was Kite Runner and that was months ago.
I still look for your updates even though I KNOW you are doing so well. I am so sorry for your boys but thankful they have such an awesome mom to be their rock and moral guide.
HopeandGrace, if you are out there, know that I have read The last Dragon book. It was good, but I didn;t really like the ending. Wish there was more story.
Read "Red Riding Hood." Waste of my life for sure. I had heard the movie wasn't very good and now that I have read the book, I don't want to see it. I actually threw the book across the room.
In case anyone wants some good paranormal romance, I have been reading the Darkyn series by Lynn Viehl(her pen name). There are 7 books, 3 spin off, and then 5 novellas. I have been able to read about 1 book a day. They are definitely ADULT books though.
I'm out here, just don't have much to say. That's a good thing, I think. I've been busy working on stuff for the next school year. Also, I've been more social, meeting with friends for lunch a few times.
I, too, wanted more from The Last Dragon but it appears this was a one-off for the author. It's a pity because the writing was superb. The ending fulfilled the prognostication the elf read but it was a sad way to conclude the book.
If you like paranormal romances, try the Weather Warden series by Rachel Caine. There's quite a few of them but do read them in order.
I'll post a longer update to my thread sometime this week. Miss you, Scotty!
I dunno if anyone else is watching The Voice on CBS. I don't normally watch reality TV(I prefer fantasy as fantasy). I LOVE this song and Vicci Martinez. Go GIRL.
Dog Days Are Over
Lyrics
Happiness, hit her like a train on a track Coming towards her, stuck still no turning back She hid around corners and she hid under beds She killed it with kisses and from it she fled With every bubble she sank with a drink And washed it away down the kitchen sink
The dog days are over The dog days are done The horses are coming so you better run
Run fast for your mother run fast for your father Run for your children for your sisters and brothers Leave all your love and your longing behind you Can't carry it with you if you want to survive
The dog days are over The dog days are done Can you hear the horses Cuz here they come And I never wanted anything from you Except everything you had And what was left after that too. oh.
Happiness hit her like a bullet in the back Struck from a great height By someone who should know better than that
The dog days are over The dog days are gone Can you hear the horses Cuz here they come
Run fast for your mother and fast for your father Run for your children for your sisters and brothers Leave all your love and your loving behind you Can't carry it with you if you want to survive
The dog days are over The dog days are gone Can you hear the horses because here they come
The dog days are over The dog days are gone Can you hear the horses because here they come
Scotty, I love love love that song. I burned it to a CD with a bunch of other "motivational" songs (Jimmy Eat World - The Middle, Sick Puppies - Maybe are 2 others) and listened full volume every day to and from work.
I had to offer up more book choices, I'm a major bookworm with a obsession with paranormal I think LOL
Janet Evanovich - Stephanie Plum series (bumbling bounty hunter, not paranormal, but funny) ADULT but OK for teens
Kim Harrison - The Hollows series (witches, vampires, werewolves, oh my... very well done, though) ADULT
MaryJanice Davidson - Queen Betsy series (funny/romantic paranormal) ADULT
Kelley Armstrong - Women of the Otherworld series (paranormal) ADULT
Laurell K Hamilton - stop at Obsidian Butterfly. She has an excellent story line, very adult but interesting. Every book after Obsidian Butterfly is just xrated with no story line, the last one I hoped and hoped that she moved away from the porn, but no, luckily I only borrowed it so I won't buy any more of hers.
Charlaine Harris - Sookie Stackhouse/Southern Vampire series (sooooo much better than the True Blood TV series)
I just got a Nook for my birthday, with a bunch of books I've never read, in genres I've never considered so I'm going to close my eyes and choose until I've read through them all LOL
Also, last weekend, sent a message through IM about bringing DS10 home early tomorrow, as it is his Bday and we always have a family dinner with my parents, sis, bro and nieces. DS10 actually didn't even want to go to visit Bampot tomorrow, but I said, "It's father's day." He asked if he could come home earlier. I told him that I would see. Bampot's response was that he would let DS10 decide when to come home. Well, DS10 already decided, noon. HEHEHEHE I told him that he didn't need to come home that early, that 3 would be fine, so he decided 3 it is. What a funny kid.
Hey Lil Sis......
For special reasons of my own, the above brought the BIGGEST of smiles to my face!!!!....
Glad to see how well you are doing, but then again, I'm not surprised!!!!
Stop stopping in to say "Chin up, Chest out!!!"....
Back to Switzerland, but before I go...{{{{{Scottie}}}}}
My mom filed for a divorce...well, actually, she came home from her annual winter trip to Florida, and came back and told Dad she was filing for a divorce and she wants to date...(yes, confirmation has been done on the fact that she was ALREADY dating.... ). Anyway, whenever I think of you or my parents sitch, I think of yours. Have things improved for them any? Are they still muking through a recovery of sorts???
There was a night, a few months ago, where they got into a fight. My mom called the police. Since my mom had signed over the house to my dad when she was living with OM, the police escorted HER out. She was crazed that night, yelling about how my dad was having an affair with the lady across the street. It was a HUGE mess, but thankfully, I am disengaged enough that I heard about it the next day. My sister is more into drama, so she was there right away.
Now, my parents are still not happy. The euphoria has long gone. They are both arguing with each other. There was actually a time when I HATED going over there. I actually told me mom that after our 4th argument. She starts complaining about my dad, and makes digs. I won't listen to it without telling her that I don't agree or that she is wrong. Then, she gets in on me. Saying that I am a bad mom, my DS8 is going to hold a gun to my head one day and threaten to kill me, you know, the loving grandma things
I finally had enough and said, "I can't be this person for you. I can't be someone who you lash out at when you are feeling bad about your life. Find a friend, or a counselor, or talk to Sis. I am so angry with how this is going that I sometimes don't even want to be here with you." That was a few weeks ago, and she has been okay with me since, I just need to make sure I don't let it go again.
Oh, I am also quite certain that she still talks to OM. She gets so foggy sometimes and she brings OM up. I don't let it happen. I understand what everyone says about a wayward. I don't think of her as a FWS, because she didn't do any of the work.
Then, she gets in on me. Saying that I am a bad mom, my DS8 is going to hold a gun to my head one day and threaten to kill me, you know, the loving grandma things
That had to have come from somewhere within her own thoughts and experiences, for her to be able to project it on you. I wonder who she wants to threaten to kill, or whom she thinks may want to threaten to kill her?
I often wonder how I turned out the way that I did, with my parents the way that they are. My dad's not too bad though. And honestly, my mom, pre-wayward really was a good person. She had her faults, but nothing like the way she is now. She's still all ME ME ME. It's not great. I learned how to defend myself through them though. I am not always proud of what I do and say. I do bite my tongue.
My MIL came to my work today to drop off DS11's bday card(we have a postal strike here). It's funny that she just doesn't give it to Bampot. And we talked for a bit. Nothing about Bampot, except when she asked me where the boys where. All in all, it was okay. I just wish she would put pressure on her son. I never know what to say to her, because all I really want to say is, "I am disappointed."
There was a night, a few months ago, where they got into a fight. My mom called the police. Since my mom had signed over the house to my dad when she was living with OM, the police escorted HER out. She was crazed that night, yelling about how my dad was having an affair with the lady across the street. It was a HUGE mess, but thankfully, I am disengaged enough that I heard about it the next day. My sister is more into drama, so she was there right away.
Now, my parents are still not happy. The euphoria has long gone. They are both arguing with each other. There was actually a time when I HATED going over there. I actually told me mom that after our 4th argument. She starts complaining about my dad, and makes digs. I won't listen to it without telling her that I don't agree or that she is wrong. Then, she gets in on me. Saying that I am a bad mom, my DS8 is going to hold a gun to my head one day and threaten to kill me, you know, the loving grandma things
I finally had enough and said, "I can't be this person for you. I can't be someone who you lash out at when you are feeling bad about your life. Find a friend, or a counselor, or talk to Sis. I am so angry with how this is going that I sometimes don't even want to be here with you." That was a few weeks ago, and she has been okay with me since, I just need to make sure I don't let it go again.
Oh, I am also quite certain that she still talks to OM. She gets so foggy sometimes and she brings OM up. I don't let it happen. I understand what everyone says about a wayward. I don't think of her as a FWS, because she didn't do any of the work.
I'm truly sorry Scottie. I was hoping for a better update....
But sometimes, we don't always get what we wish for...
I'd say "Chin up"...but I think you are doing a wonderfully, classy job of that yourself.....
Thank you Not. I prob wouldn't have updated had you not asked but I almost did a few times.
It boils down to the fact that I believe that there is most likely still contact with OM. She's losing her job ob Friday as the company is going bankrupt. My dad is till too hurt and I believe he did Plan A too long and most likely should have done Plan B at minimum when I did. They don't spend enough time together and as far as I am concerned they haven't made good choices by trying other plans(mainly their own and ones of counselors who don't know a lick about helping people recover from an A). Sorry a mini rany about non-MB advice given to people to help recover their M.
I am really okay with other people picking their own ways of doing things but when they try to get me to defend myself over and over again about my choices. Argh. Also, I am going to do things to fix MY house and they seem to think that their ideas are right and I am wrong but it's my house :P hehehehehe
Yesterday, I was speaking to a woman I work with. She recently came back to work after recovering from a heart attack. While she was recovering, she found out her husband was having an affair with an old GF. He was in the hospital having a liver transplant, he had liver cancer. Needless to say, this woman didn't go to the hospital for a few days. I felt so badly for her. I pointed her here. She had asked me before, when everything was happening with Bampot, about how to snoop. See, ALWAYS trust your gut. She said that she would have left him, but financially, she can't. I feel badly for her, but I hope to help her however I can.
Took the boys out to see Harry Potter today. I LOVED IT. I cried. Can't wait to see it again, and we will.
Yesterday, when Bampot came to get DSx2, DS8 didn't close the porch door all of the way. I went out, intending to NOT look at Bampot, when I HEARD him. AHHHH. It was the first time in a LOOOOONNNNNGGGGG time since I had heard his voice, and the memories came flooding back. It's weird. I can see how ANY contact with an OP could set someone back. WOW.
Then, this morning, Bampot's phone texted the house phone twice. DS11 thought it was Bampot calling, so he answered, and then hung up. I thought that was kinda interesting.
Other than these minor happenings, life is just chugging along normally.
Hoping your story has one of those miracle endings...
Either way, it will.
I really believe that now. I didn't think I could ever feel that way. I really didn't. And the secret to my success is MB, Plan A and now Plan B. It is really the best. I am able to move ahead KNOWING that I did everything possible. I also saved myself from YEARS of pain with constant communication with a WS. I really do have DrH, MB and all of the posters here to thank. THANK YOU ALL.
I only updated because I felt the need to write something on my own thread. I hope that this thread can help some BS's(and the occasional WS) in the future.
Again, the question came up about why I am "waiting" for Bampot. I have to keep telling people that I am NOT waiting for Bampot, I am healing myself. I am not ready to be divorced yet, so I haven't filed. I don't have the desire to date, so I haven't filed for a D yet again.
There are still normal happenings of life, but it is easier to deal with. Life really IS so much better out of the drama. I actually removed a lot of "toxic" people from my FB, and my everyday life. It is much more important to me to be well, and happy than to worry about hurting others feelings. I am thinking about what is best for me and my children FIRST. And there are even times, when I look at a relationship, and wonder if the cons are worth the pros.
On another note, The house started getting painted today. My dad came over on one of the hottest days in July, to a south facing house, got up on my porch roof, and painted. He will be here again tomorrow, and in a few weeks, I may be able to update my pic to show you all my new colour scheme. White siding still, with a medium brown for trim and red for the door. I am gonna LOVE it.
How can someone "move on" when half of you is left somewhere on the floor? Gotta pick up the pieces, throw away what you don't need, make new what you can and put together a better puzzle. That's what I am doing.
Hurray for dad! Most people just don't get it, Scotty. They think it is healthier for you to "move on" and you know it is healthier to heal first.
Originally Posted by Scotty Longbottom
How can someone "move on" when half of you is left somewhere on the floor? Gotta pick up the pieces, throw away what you don't need, make new what you can and put together a better puzzle. That's what I am doing.
Hoping your story has one of those miracle endings...
Either way, it will.
I really believe that now. I didn't think I could ever feel that way. I really didn't. And the secret to my success is MB, Plan A and now Plan B. It is really the best. I am able to move ahead KNOWING that I did everything possible. I also saved myself from YEARS of pain with constant communication with a WS. I really do have DrH, MB and all of the posters here to thank. THANK YOU ALL.
And believe me guys, I KNOW it. I actually had a dream about them last night. I woke up and wanted to call them, and tell them what I really think. I didn't though.
It's really hard for me to watch them struggle when I KNOW how much better it could be, if they would only do something different. It's their life, and their choices. I can only show them the path they COULD take, taking is totally up to them. Who knows, my mom is getting internet, maybe she will come on then
How can someone "move on" when half of you is left somewhere on the floor? Gotta pick up the pieces, throw away what you don't need, make new what you can and put together a better puzzle. That's what I am doing.
AH, Grasshoppa, you have found the way of wisdom, to seperate the preciuos from the vile.
I will never stop loving my late wife, but I will and allways will hate the crap she lived in that took her. "Hate the sin and not the sinner". God I need that all the time, because I hate the devastation that I see in peoples lives.
But also you don't just stop loving people, not if you are strong in the love dept., thats just not how it works now is it?
But it is good to move as we are ready to, and not one second faster, and certainly from people who don't understand how deep our love went, and want us to fill thier level and quota of what they feel love is. Why don't they get it? It was personal and different from thiers? Gee whiz, it might have even been more important to us then thiers is now to them.
Every love is different from everybody elses, even though the same rules of engagement, levels of commitment, do apply, the individuals involved and the relationship created is completly different from anyone elses, ever born. Its that that is lost when we don't remember and obey, honor, cherish, and forsaking all others. We were supposed to grow and change together right? Fill each others ENs as that happened through life.
So Scotty I know you are deep, and strong, and do not forget those things lightly, and are not afraid to suffer for those you love. God bless you Scotty Rocks, we are blessed to have you here, although I wish you never had to come in the first place.
How can someone "move on" when half of you is left somewhere on the floor? Gotta pick up the pieces, throw away what you don't need, make new what you can and put together a better puzzle. That's what I am doing.
Great to hear this, Scotty! Your story (and you) really did help me through so much! One day at a time, eh? And I'm glad you've started to feel whole again... Funny how time truly does heal, eh?
How can someone "move on" when half of you is left somewhere on the floor? Gotta pick up the pieces, throw away what you don't need, make new what you can and put together a better puzzle. That's what I am doing.
Great to hear this, Scotty! Your story (and you) really did help me through so much! One day at a time, eh? And I'm glad you've started to feel whole again... Funny how time truly does heal, eh?
Hahaha. Hey NP. Good to see you doing well as well. So, you wrote 3 sentences and said, "eh" twice. Careful the natives are gonna know their are canucks here. ML just may come around speaking about foreigners taking over.
Today, is not a good day. It is a bottom slope of the roller coaster, and what set me off? I dunno. I think it was reading someone else's thread that started out too much like my sitch, in the beginning. And then, DS8 called me, twice. DSx2 are spending the night at the lurv-shack, a they do every other SAturday. Today though, DS8 missed me something fierce. He called me at 913pm, and we talked for a few minutes. Then, at 938pm, the phone rang again, and it was DS8 again. I had to tell him that it will be less than 21 hours until he is home again, and that many of those hours he will be sleeping. I told him to hug on his brother tightly, and know that I love him. Then, I told him that I was going to bed soon to read, so he should just go to sleep, and the quicker he sleeps, the quicker it will be tomorrow and he will be on his way home. Breaks. my. heart.
My children shouldn't have to spend one night away from their home, unless they are on a sleepover at a friend's house. They shouldn't have to miss their mother, and I shouldn't have to miss them. But, don't worry, the children are just fine(/sarcasm). TURD.
You and your kids are in my prayers. Take off any rose colored glasses and take a good look at WH and the situation HE put you in. The situation HE put your kids in.
It may be time to pull the trigger. I tried to wait it out and now I'm in a horrible financial situation with D!ck filing bankruptcy and him trying to leave me with the joint debt.
The D process can take a long time. Mine is 2.5 years and counting.
The boys are lucky to have a strong mother like you. They know they have one parent who is calm and sane and together. So many people would let this drive them to distraction. Your focus is unwaveringly and totally on you and on your children's best interests, so great.
So, today, I was at work, and I was talking to that friend of mine whose husband is having at minimum, an EA with an ExGF. She said to me, "Don't you HATE WH?" I said, "No, I don't talk to him." She said, "Yea, but don't you just HATE him?" And I said, honestly and openly, "No, I hope that I don't." She was puzzled. I said, "Well, of course, I hate what he did, and is still doing. I hate the choices that he made and is still making, but hate him? That would do me no good. I DO get angry with him at times, because of the things he has done, but that's about all it is right now, since I don't talk to him."
I really truly believe that Plan B has helped me become this person. I am SURE that if I didn't follow MB, and more importantly Plan B, then I probably WOULD be a person so full of hate that it would consume me. That is not someone whom I wish to be. Something else to be thankful for.
I appreciate seeing your growth in Plan B. I can see the transitional phases you have encountered.
I have to move on from my anger towards WH. I am still trying to look at him as the addict I think he is at the moment.
Most of my marriage I tried educating my WH on his morality. WH please don't look at porn I don't want to raise our boys to think it is okay. WH please stop picking friends who are dishonest. WH please don't play violent video games. WH please spend more time with the kids and get off the computer ....
I am working so hard today to stop this behavior of mine. I have to stop trying to control the person and the situation. I am realizing I have to just put my boundaries in place and then chose those around me that will not want me to drop my boundaries for them.
It is so hard to still not try and educate the wayward today. I am trying to wrap my brain around the fact he only wants them every other weekend or basically four times/month. I asked him for some middle week time, and his response "The commute is too much. There is too much traffic for me to come and get them."
I cannot educate him on the fact he only wants to be Disney Dad. I have to let him go and watch him destroy himself in the eyes of my children. This is so painful. I have to grow enough to not own any of this behavior.
Plan B rules and I can officially say today I am so happy to be here.
I have to stop trying to control the person and the situation. I am realizing I have to just put my boundaries in place and then chose those around me that will not want me to drop my boundaries for them.
.
This is so wise, my jaw literally dropped.
I did that 'please dont' stuff too. Funny but I was always torn between either thinking of myself as too critical or too soft on him. The obvious point literally never hit me.
I really truly believe that Plan B has helped me become this person. I am SURE that if I didn't follow MB, and more importantly Plan B, then I probably WOULD be a person so full of hate that it would consume me. That is not someone whom I wish to be. Something else to be thankful for.
This is such a gift, one I am enjoying right now. I too can honestly say im not angry with my wh right now. Ive put his choices and consequences in their rightful place - his side of the fence. This means I am no longer saying 'Why are you doing this to ME?' Rather I feel sad and shake my head and wonder why he chooses to do this to himself.
Funny but you cant know what plan b feels like until youre in it,
Funny but you cant know what plan b feels like until youre in it,
And it's so hard to watch someone not be in Plan B, or not dark enough, and see the pain they are going through, when I KNOW that it would be so much less painful for them. I am a real advocate for Plan B, because IT WORKS.
Most of my marriage I tried educating my WH on his morality. WH please don't look at porn I don't want to raise our boys to think it is okay. WH please stop picking friends who are dishonest. WH please don't play violent video games. WH please spend more time with the kids and get off the computer ....
It is so hard to still not try and educate the wayward today. I am trying to wrap my brain around the fact he only wants them every other weekend or basically four times/month. I asked him for some middle week time, and his response "The commute is too much. There is too much traffic for me to come and get them."
I cannot educate him on the fact he only wants to be Disney Dad. I have to let him go and watch him destroy himself in the eyes of my children. This is so painful. I have to grow enough to not own any of this behavior.
Sadly, this is pretty much what I think you have to do. Give wayturds lots of rope to hang themselves with. It hurts like hell watching our kids suffer, but in the end (at least for me), I KNOW I am being the best parent I can for my kids, making the best decisions I can for them, and raising them the best I can. Wayturds who are irreponsible and selfish suck, and I fully believe that someday the children are going to realize this on their own. Why try to help someone who doesn't want to be helped??
Scotty - I hear you! And I'm glad you're doing so well in Plan B. It's best to let go of the hate. I find I don't even hate POSOW any more. I sort of pity her for doing what she did to her life. I know mine will be better from now on. Having WS's out of our lives, however it happens, is the BEST thing that can happen to any of us!!!
PS. I'll try not say let out any more "eh's." Shhhh.....Canucks in disguise here......
In the interests of keeping this current, and whole, I am going to update.
There isn't much to update.
Received an email from my IM last weekend. I asked Bampot to purchase a backpack and shoes for each child. Response was, "Things have changed drastically at work and he can only afford to purchase one of these items." Also, he wanted to know if I was going to be taking the boys camping this August. And that he wouldn't be able to take the boys on October 15th. I already know that OW is a maid of honour in her best friend's wedding. Well, needless to say, I was TICKED. I answered back that a pair of shoes and backpack wasn't even half of what they would need for back to school, but I would be getting the rest. That I wasn't going to be taking them camping this year(Bampot goes up north to bring OW's D home and usually does so for a week, too bad, he'll need to do it Mon-Fri. And the wedding? I told my IM to pass on that I would need to be paid extra by Bampot(for a missed day pay by needing to take a day off) or he could find adequate childcare for the boys(which will most likely be my WSIL).
On Tuesday, the man who was bestman at our wedding, friended me on FB. He had recently found out about Bampot(my WSIL ran into him and told him). I have been keeping my communications very guarded, just to keep up my boundaries, but I did tell him about what happened. He was shocked as well. It makes me feel good that others who really knew Bampot are shocked by this. It validates my past.
Something has been happening though, and this brings me to the reason for the "update." I can feel it happening. I saw a pic of Bampot on FB and I actually felt NOTHING. It's scaring me to think that I may be coming to that point where I really don't want him anymore. I know, intellectually, that he is most likely lost for good right now, but there was always a part of me that hoped that he would "wake up." I won't be ending my Plan B, because the thought of being divorced is still not something I want for me, at the moment. I am not ready for it, yet.
I am re-mourning everything that I have already lost, since it feels permanent now. I know it sounds silly, and I feel silly going through this, but it is what it is. Also, my Taker is SCREAMING out to me. I actually CAN imagine being with someone else, although even thinking about it makes my stomach sink. I know I am at the edge of another change, since I am so scattered again. Boy, this personal recovery gig SUCKS(Bet MR sucks more, WOW).
Just putting my life out here, as I have been for almost 2 years now. Don't worry all, I am doing well, change is welcome, even if it's a little scary.
That to say i relate to so much of what you wrote there... including when other people experience shock, it revalidating that I did know him... or I thought I did
Well then Mehr, I am glad I decided to share this tonight. I have been thinking about it all week, but it wasn't until today that I was really processing it, and I don't know why.
It could be that Bampot finally did enough to my children that I have lost a lot of the feelings I had left. It could just be that enough time has past. Who knows? But I am going with it, because it is the right thing to do.
I have been praying about what I should do, and the message I have "felt" is to stay my course. I am continuing on my path, and trying to let it lead me to where I am supposed to get.
I remember when I hit that point. It is a milestone. I remember doing as you did, crying because I finally scared myself so bad b/c I didn't care, which to me meant I was ready to throw in the towel.
But to each his/her own, and you will know when to say when, but I still pray that a miracle happens.
It is so frustrating knowing that your wh tells you lies (more like sins of omission) about kids and custody and times. We all know that $ for the backpacks and such are going towars the stupid trek to ow's sisters' wedding. Plus he never says where he will be for the weekend when he can't take the kids (note: can't vs. won't...he WON'T take the kids b/c he is with the skankyho).
Even after our divorce, Darth would NOT admit certain things to me b/c he was EMBARASSED AND ASHAMED of what he had done. I remember clearly the day the oc was born. It was a week before my birthday. I still was not doing any child exchanges at my home b/c of his crazy behaviors. I was in plan D/F-U.
He showed up to get my son, and usually we said nothing, he would pull his car up to the side of my suv and my son would hop out and Darth would then put him in the car and buckle him up and put his little bag in the back. My heart always sank when that happened.
However on that ONE day, Darth behaved unusually strange, even for him. And this was from a distance. He didn't remove one hand from his pockets in his shorts. Deliberately. He walked around, opened car door w/one hand, the back of my suv with one hand, and then tried to buckle my son into the backseat with that one hand sticking out of his pockets.
I'd been around that man for years and never saw him behave so oddly.
I went against my normal behavior, and jumped out of the car and said loudly, "What the h(ll is wrong with your right hand? Did you break it or something? Why are you behaving so crazy? Take that hand out of your pocket."
I had a momentary lapse of reason (yea, I love Pink Floyd).
But surprisingly, Darth pulled his right hand out of his shorts pocket and I saw the hospital wrist band. My heart sank so low and I did all I could do to not burst into tears crying my heart out.
He looked at me and said, "yea, she was born today (the oc)." Not happy, not elated like he was when our son was born, heck he never left the hospital, our son was a preemie, but he was still overjoyed, handing out candy cigars to all our friends and filling my room with flowers.
It was sickening. He was truly ashamed. We had been divorced 2.5 months at this time.
I then had another momentary lapse of reason and screamed at him, "Did you think well enough to explain this to your REAL son sitting in the back seat? (my son was inside and we were outside so he couldn't hear mommy screaming like a banshee)"
He said no.
I said loudly, "Where's the cigars? Where's your friends? Why aren't you there? Why the long face?...(then a pause)...what did you name her?"
He muttered two names. A first and a middle and I almost screamed in agony as I realized MY XWH NAMED THE OC THE NAME I HAD PICKED OUT FOR MY SON IF HE WERE A GIRL.
I lost it again (another momentary lapse). I'm sure the folks at the gas station were wanting to tackle or hit Darth by now if they were listening.
I went into a tirade like I have never done before. "So you screw around on me and destroy our marriage and family and you get the ho pregnant and then you name the child MY NAME I picked out???? WTF is wrong with you Darth???"
I calmed down, opened the back door where my son was, and told him I would call him later that night, as I knew my son would be utterly confused.
Darth could not look at me in the face. He couldn't. He just walked over to his side, got in the car, and drove off. And after he was far from sight, I broke down in tears and had the biggest cry of my life.
So yes, I understand when you hit a point. That was the day all the love I had ever held, any remaining residual love, was utterly killed.
I drove home tears flying down my face and then threw up for about 2 hrs. I realize it was not the oc's fault. I actually always fostered a good relationship with her and my child.
But the day you lose the love is a day you remember. I know I did, Scotty.
As ussual, you are strong in the love dept, and of course that is what makes you such a strong person also.
The lack of feeling you have towards WH on sight sure can be scary, throw you for a loop, all that.
I will tell you a short story, and even though it was during a time when I was myself messing up by going out drinking and dancing, after my first separation, it still strikes me as a little like what you experienced.
You remember that my late wife was as far as I could see,(and many other too, BTW), was a very beautiful woman physically. Now when I met her this was not very impressive, because that alone can be a curse to many women, and it was easy to get spoiled, by men who were enchanted, and didn't think straight, and imagined them to be a princess, a Damsel in Distress.
Being a manager of women of all ages before, I learned that being fair and impartial was the way to go if you really cared about people, and character was the truly valuable thing, so I treated pretty women the same as everyone else, and saw beauty from within, as all were beautiful. It was a state of maturity I was proud of.
Once I got to know her, and heard about all the trials and tribulations she had gone through, and saw the woman whithin her I started to see her as beautiful. As time together in the first two years and the dreams we shared and the birth of my daughter unfolded, she became even more beautiful to me.
When I gave up, brought her drunken pregnant butt to her home state, still in my mind she was the most attractive poisonous woman I probably ever would be with my whole life.
One night, 1 1/2 yrs later, when I was out at a bar, still affected by what had happened, and not even realizing how much so, because I didn't go to bars before, this was a new behavior wrought from my pain and bitterness from what happened. (Yes I was going to make sure I never knew love and devotion again, I was gonna be in control, and I was a fool.) My friend said to me, "Hey look who that is"..It was my W, falling off the wagon she was barely on,(but she was on it), standing across the dance floor, watching me dance with one of the locals, and drinking a beer.
I had put her completly behind me. All that was left was getting the divorce and finding a lawyer that would help me to not have to fund her bullcrap, and getting the children from her. I say that she was behind me, but yet everything I was doing proved that she was not. Going out and wasting time and money at bars was not a version of me I had lived in when I was emotionally healthy, nor most of my adult life. I was living in a reaction and knew it, but my childish bitterness gave me permission, oh boo-hoo me.
This part though Scotty, reminds me of what you said. My wife meant little to me, and I hardly even recognized her, when I saw her. She did not look attractive, and later she told me it was because she wasn't wearing her make-up, but she never needed that before for me to think she was pretty, even when she was sick. Also I did not let it stop my evening, or draw me away from the woman I was dancing with, who was very interested in me, but as we spoke together a few times after, realised I was still really messed up over my W.
The point is also, that we still love our spouses, and part of us allways will. We had a chance at recovery, and if we had Dr Hs guidance, we might have made it, but we still rekindled some love that we had lost, and for a time were beautiful to each other again.
We, and I say we because both of us are going through the same thing, are learning like many do, to live with the loss. We don't stop loving them, but we stop needing them, to make our lives whole and meaningful.
My W is gone because of poor choices that took her out of this world, and along with that I have changed, from the man with a mission to keep her alive and well and happy, to like a man without a country, but I am finding my way back to myself, God willing. Your WH is gone also because of his poor choices, from your world you are keeping protected, thanks to who you are, and the protection of the fine people here at MB. You are also finding your way back to yourself. Either way, it is a nessesary part of our lives, and our love for them is not lost. Thats the beautiful part of plan B though, ( I sorta experienced that when we seperated way back when, because I still loved the woman underneath the alcoholic, but the alcoholic I hated), we can still love who they used to be, and who they could have been, and can have pity on them because of thier loss, without hating them, though they treat us with such dis-respect. They are lost in the end of it all
and of course...my short story turned into a novel lol.
Thanx guys. Today is OW's barfday. And I couldn't sleep until 430am. My stomach is turning. I have this "feeling" of dread. And I get to go to work, sending my children off with Bampot.
CP its funny you say that your WW wasn't beautifuk to you anymore. The last time that I looked at a pic of Bampot I thought,"why did I think he was good looking?" Weird.
Thanx you to these boards and to all of you for helping me get to where I am today.
My experience was that when i finally stopped "hating" my WXH, that was the moment that I had stopped loving him. It was almost 4 yrs after the D. I had been dating and was unable to form a bond with any one I went out with. 4 years after the divorce i met my present H. I was instantly attracted and it was scary. 33 years later, he still gives me chill bumps. We had a rough go a few years back, but thanks to MB we are back on track.
Scotty, glad you are feeling somewhat better. And as far as why you ever thought XWH was attractive -
I've had several Romance novels published. When I do workshops, I am sometimes asked why the characters in *all* Romance novels are always described as such perfect specimens of physical attraction since nobody could really look like that.
I always answer, "They're described that way because you are seeing these characters through the eyes of another character who loves them. When you love someone, they become beautiful to you. That's why the descriptions often sound so over-the-top to anyone else."
There IS a reason why MB works, and it is because it works to heal and bolster emotional ties. When you BEHAVE ugly (like waywards do) that ugliness comes from the inside and radiates outward.
His actions have made him become a shadow of the former man to you now. and somehow, affairs have a way of making the wayward "affair down" and usually they make the wayward sometimes become ACTUALLY less attractive in real life too. Many go to extremes, losing alot of weight or gaining weight (depression), and they sometimes change the way they actually look to match their affair partner.
I have a funny story again about this.
My xwh and I had just separated at this time. I was at home with Courtney (my old IM) and she would answer the door for me when Darth would return or pick up my son from his visitation. But somehow he was way late and she had to go so I had to open the door.
This time, I was forced to open the door. And my eyes were opened! In the past, Darth had been a very high powered businessman. He was attractive, a conservative yet amazing dresser, and always looked well-groomed and like a guy you'd want to elect President.
The doorbell rang and I opened the door. My little boy was standing nearby, with his cute little suitcase rolling behind him. In the doorway stood Darth, dressed in some sort of Gotti-esque silk shirt with yellow, white and black stripes, ripped up black jeans, and wierd bug-eyed sunglasses on.
I looked @ him and said, "Where have YOU been?" He replied, "To the Pink and Lenny Kravitz concert."
Suddenly my little boy looks up at Darth and screams loudly and laughing, "Lookie mommy, Daddy looks like a ZEE-BAH (zebra)!
I said, "yes honey, your dad DOES look like a zebra doesn't he. Or maybe Bono on a bender."
He then said, "I have to go soon and by the way, my shirt is by Versace. Family Values is in the car and I have to get her home soon." (family values IS the wistress)
I said, "How SWEET..YOU TOOK THE BABYSITTER TO THE CONCERT AND NOW YOU HAVE TO TAKE HER BACK HOME TO HER PARENTS before it's midnight."
But the memory of him MORPHING into this wierd new strange looking man (30's trying to look early 20's) was beyond me. A CEO of a damn company looking like that and behaving so silly.
So yes, sometimes they can literally turn ugly on you.
I hope I reach the point of strength you have reached Scotty, if softlad persists in being wayward. Hope I will get the wisdom to see ugliness when I experience it.
scotty i have to say i love reading your growth. You are an amazing woman and mother to your two DS. As others have said where you are with your emotions are scarey but they are also a normal part of the process. I wish you and your boys nothing but the best on this continue journey.
Last year, around this time, I saw you mention the book "Leadership and Self-deception." I purchased the book, but I didn't read it, until this past Thursday. WOW. It is an excellent book, and it is going to help me in ALL of my relationships, professionally and personally.
While reading the book, I thought of some people who would benefit from it. I also thought about passing it on to my boss, although that may take some creative "gifting." I can see how I have been in the box. I can see how I can get out of the box. I have some friendships, where I am never in the box, my bestfriend is DEFINITELY one of those people. A lot of the people on here, same thing.
It is a VERY interesting read, and something that I am going to need to read a few times, to make sure I get it all sunk in.
Again, THANK YOU.
On the Bampot front.....
DS11 had minor oral surgery yesterday. He had a GIANT baby tooth removed that never erupted(it was also an extra tooth). I sent a message through my IM about the surgery on Monday. DS11 didn't want to talk to Bampot at all the whole week. On Thursday night, Bampot tried to contact DS11 3 times. DS11, didn't want to talk to him. After his surgery, DS11 did email Bampot to let him know that he was okay(he was going under for the surgery). Bampot called him about 30 minutes later. At times like these, I remember MY DH. Oh where oh where did he go?
I just read about an hour's worth of your thread. Wow. I stand in awe of your resolve. You are tough! Thanks for letting us see these glimpses into your life and take encouragement from them.
Not to T/J about how your WS becomes unattractive, but when my WH came home at Thanksgiving 2010 to work on the marriage he was that 22 year old frat boy.
Remember he was deployed living with OW (thanks US Army and Commander Azz***e). I confirmed he was having an affair at Thanksgiving due to my intuition and some excellent snooping!!!
Anyway - my WH had shaved his entire body. Arms, legs, chest, and all. I was like what the heck is happening. Who are you and where is my husband? He tried to tell me he has been doing it for years!!! What planet was he on?
After I did a huge snoop of OW's facebook page I realized she was into bodybuilding Army men. My WH was trying to be that guy. Granted two days later I found the hot tub pictures and then everything made sense.
Waywards will do some really stupid and silly things while addicted. It is hilarious now, but wasn't at the time!!!
CV, you are welcome, and thank you for commenting.
Tough, it is crazy what they start to do and some of the things they come up with, eh? I remember things that Bampot said and did, and now looking back, I "see" it. I hope that my story can help others "see" it too. I also hope that I can help at least one person get through, since I was helped by so many.
Hello fellow Plan B'er.... just want you to know I am always following along ... but never have anything useful to say.
Have you read my thread? I t/j myself all the time and this thread takes on some interesting, and sometimes BORING twists(puzzles YAWN). It is about MY LIFE, and my journey through this mess. Just knowing that there are others out there, gaining SOMETHING from this is enough, so I thank you Mehr. Everyone is worth something here. Remember that.
Hello fellow Plan B'er.... just want you to know I am always following along ... but never have anything useful to say.
I guess you have not read my posts then hehe. Just because I am not sure it is useful, sure doesn't stop me.
Yes your presence cannot be replaced by mere words, but your identification with the betrayed can be very comforting to those who feel alone. I have read some of your posts and find them very real.
I want to get that book too Scotty and Indie, it sounds mind opening.
Last year, around this time, I saw you mention the book "Leadership and Self-deception." I purchased the book, but I didn't read it, until this past Thursday. WOW. It is an excellent book, and it is going to help me in ALL of my relationships, professionally and personally.
So, this morning I read my emails and I got one from my I.M. It says, "Bampot would like you to stop spraying the boys' things with perfume when he comes to pick them up. I asked the boys about it and DS8 says, "I only sprayed Baby(his security pillow) and Tiggy(his little tiger) so I wouldn't miss you Mama.". Well, I got a little teary. Also, DS11 has told me that he put on some of Bampot's old cologne(Bampot stopped wearing it YEARS ago). So, I told the I.M. To send Bampot back a message that I didn't know about it until now(aparently it was done last weekend and this one), and that Bampot needs to tell DS8 why he shouldn't be doing it(I REFUSE to be the bad guy over this especially when I don't see the harm in it).
Also, yesterday, I was on my lunch when one of my friends told me a small tidbit of info about OW. I asked her how she knew and she said, "nope you told me not to tell you anything about them.". I said, "Well, you already told me too much anyways." And she had. Now, getting the email from my I.M. This morning too. Well, needless to say, it has me thinking about "THEM" all over agin. Oh well, this is life in Plan B.
I would ask how someone changes so much in such a small amount of time(Bampot) but I've changed in leaps and bounds in the less than 2 years that I have been here. When you change for the better, its a welcome change.
HAH! It's the OW who doesn't want the scent of your perfume around!
Chances are...just about anything in your house is going to have the scent of your perfume mixed in with other normal household odors.
A couple of years after my dad died, my mom got new living room furniture and gave Daddy's old recliner to my DD. My DD loves it because it "smells like Big Mama's house"...and it does!
Household items are going to have a unique odor...specific to that house, that includes perfumes and colognes, air fresheners, cooking odors, cleaning produces, etc.
Bless your DS8's heart for wanting reminders of his mommy with him!
I agree that Bampot should be on the hot seat when it comes to explaining why reminders of you are a no-no at OW's house!
HAH! It's the OW who doesn't want the scent of your perfume around!
Without a doubt.
Oh, I'm well aware, just don't give a dern.
If I wanna bathe my children in the stuff, I would, but I don't.
I did speak more to DS8 about the perfume. I told him that Bampot may ask him to stop. He said, "I won't. I will miss you if I do." Well, that's that then.
Well, a little rant, but it seems funny to rant about this now.
Bampot uses the IM more that I do. Yeah, the one who didn't want to use the IM has started to use it more often. And I believe that it is about things that don't even need to be passed on, like asking what size shoes to buy the boys for school, and then, buying a different size and sending a message about that.
Affairs really do affect the kids though. DS8 had a rough first day of school. He had some anxiety over having to go upstairs for classes now, and wound up leaving without even entering his classroom. DS8 then talked to Bampot on the phone but didn't want to tell him about his day. On Thursday, a message through the IM asking about DS8 and his first day of school. 3 IM emails in a few weeks, all initiated by Bampot. WEIRD.
Still processing my feelings about my marriage(what's left of it). This personal recovery gig isn't easy. Sometimes, I have these crazy ideas that I can talk to Bampot. I almost convince myself that it is a good idea. CRAZY I know. That's why I don't. I just figured that I would throw it out there in case anyone else in Plan B ever has these same ideas, then they can see that it is NORMAL(at least I think I'm "normal" in this). Don't worry guys, I won't talk to him.
My anniversary is in 9 days. I will be busy at work during the day, and then at a school function in the evening. It will be a sad day, but I hope to be busy enough to not notice too much.
All in all, just some more fun times in Plan B.
Geez, I forgot about the perfume email too. That's FOUR in a few weeks. Huh.
Funny that two year mark huh? Worked like that with me also.
Although I had a more justified reason to leave my drunkard messed up wife, I still had no brains getting involved with another woman, and you know the rest, it messed up my marriges recovery real bad.
The first idea I had when I originally left, was to not date, go to school, take care of my health, and I was OK with that for about 5-6 months.. Say it again?..sure CP...
WISH I HAD MB OR SUPPORT LIKE IT THEN!!!
But the two year mark, it works both ways huh? Not only is he seeing her warts and pimples, but realizing at least in some ways it was all in his head, and who was really the important ones who were being hurt by all this. The kids. I know you know he loves them, now if he can get around to learning to understand even himself.
Now might be the time where he wants to start a dialog with you, of course about the boys, but you know it will be cake eating for his domestic support really. Because all of your relatives in "affairland" have these half-azzed understandings of how a marriage should be, like popping a pill, or compromising for affection, they will probably pressure you to make nice for the boys.
You don't have to change your passion for Bampot, he is still your husband acting like an entitled little boy, and not your friend. IMs are fine, and if it goes to the next level, lawyers and social workers will be fine too. You never have to see him again if you don't want to, and I applaud your character.
Its that character that will continue to hold you up above the others who fall down into the pit of complacency.
But also you are probably starting to see your own possibilities in the future, and if Bampot follows the pattern of most wayturds, and you are presented with the chance for reconciliation, you might find yourself in a place of distain for the man. Its a natural reaction also and I would not be surprised...
Keep the bar high Scotty, either a real marrige with the man you know he can be, or none at all.
I'm gonna t/j, Scotty, but I just have to comment on the "changing" WH, and I can only make it on MB once a month or so....
It is amazing what W's will do to change for their OW
My H told me that the wh*re was very controlling of him... and he is 6 years older than her! She had an opinion on how he should wear his hair, what music he could and could not listen to, and even the type of socks he was to wear! The funniest part is that they only saw each other in person 3 times total during the A!
H asks me now on occasion how he should get his hair cut, or if he should grow out his beard. I tell him it's up to him. I mean, who am I to say how he should look? I love him the way he is, and I don't need him to change because of me.
Ok, t/j over. Scotty, I have to say, you are an amazing woman. I know I've been following your story for over a year, and also have been given great advice by you. You are so strong, for yourself and your boys. You are just a model of the MB plan. My hat's off to you, Scotty.
This personal recovery gig isn't easy. Sometimes, I have these crazy ideas that I can talk to Bampot. I almost convince myself that it is a good idea. CRAZY I know. That's why I don't. I just figured that I would throw it out there in case anyone else in Plan B ever has these same ideas, then they can see that it is NORMAL(at least I think I'm "normal" in this). Don't worry guys, I won't talk to him.
Thanks for making me feel "normal" Scotland. I sometimes have thoughts when watching TV or something, "Gee, I'll have to tell WH about this, he'll love it". And I had a very very itchy texting finger last week, wanting to move into Plan FU...you give inspiration, as like you, I know I won't.
As for the anniversary, it must be a run of them... mine is early next month. Glad you have made plans for a busy day.
Interesting about the 2-year mark and the increase in IM contact... Hopefully all is not going so well in planet wayward.
Regardless, continue to show us newbie Plan B'ers how it is done!
Thanks for making me feel "normal" Scotland. I sometimes have thoughts when watching TV or something, "Gee, I'll have to tell WH about this, he'll love it". And I had a very very itchy texting finger last week, wanting to move into Plan FU...you give inspiration, as like you, I know I won't.
Interesting about the 2-year mark and the increase in IM contact... Hopefully all is not going so well in planet wayward.
Regardless, continue to show us newbie Plan B'ers how it is done!
You Folks are such an inspiration to me!!
I'm at 2 MONTHS after D-Day and thought I was doing well!!??
I relate to your post. and.....my anniversary is this month too.
It seems a lot of people were married in September. I never realized it until recently since everyone I know, IRL, have different months.
Thanx guys for the support. I don't think about what the using the IM means, as I am sure it means nothing, I just wanted to throw it out there. It's what I do. Besides, you never know who is watching and what is useful to their sitch.
Caracal, I think what you are talking about is something that is completely NORMAL during the beginning stages of Plan B. You were so used to thinking about one person for YEARS, you can't unthink them quickly. I would think about Bampot liking that movie, or that pair of pants. I would have the thought, and then tell my brain that I didn't want those types of thoughts anymore. It takes some time, and some real effort to change your thinking. You can do it, as long as you stick to it.
BTW, I have been soooooo lonely. My TAKER has been SCREAMING. I am scared to think of someone other than Bampot filling my ENs, but I have been wishing for a good man to do it. It's a step in the right direction for my personal recovery. I think that a big part of me is scared that I will give up on Bampot too soon. Silly eh? It's been almost 2 YEARS, how is that TOO soon? I just want a man who cares for me. One who treats me right, and would do ANYTHING for me. I realized during these past 2 years that I am a romantic person. I never thought of myself like that before.
When I pray for the right direction to head, I feel like I should continue on this current path a while longer. When I have thoughts that someone else could fill my ENs, it still feels wrong to me. That's how I know, I am NOT ready to file for a D. Although, on a funny note, I received my marriage certificate this past week. I had never applied for it before. I saw on a site about divorce, that you need your marriage certificate to file, so I got it, just to be ready. I opened it to make sure it was correct, and then put it away. No need to look at it.
Sometimes when I get started I just can't shut up, eh?. Well, off to watch "Anna and the King" on Netflix. I LOVED "The King and I" when I was a kid.
cd, it's great to hear from you. How high is PA on your FWH's list? I don't find facial hair on men attractive. I do like sideburns though. One thing about Bampot was that he started shaving his sideburns off. That was one of my first red flags, although i didn't know what it meant fully at the time. Seems OW didn't like them. Maybe your FWH has PA HIGH on his list and he is trying to meet it for you.
I hope all is going well with your MR. Are you getting all of your UA time in? POJA happening? All that recovery stuff going in the right direction? Just making sure, I don't think you could get through another FR. (((CD)))
cd, it's great to hear from you. How high is PA on your FWH's list? I don't find facial hair on men attractive. I do like sideburns though. One thing about Bampot was that he started shaving his sideburns off. That was one of my first red flags, although i didn't know what it meant fully at the time. Seems OW didn't like them. Maybe your FWH has PA HIGH on his list and he is trying to meet it for you.
I hope all is going well with your MR. Are you getting all of your UA time in? POJA happening? All that recovery stuff going in the right direction? Just making sure, I don't think you could get through another FR. (((CD)))
If you would have asked me where I thought PA was on my H's list last year, I would have said quite high, because of the OW. I have never thought, at least in that respect, I fit his idea of PA... gotta love the few extra pounds of baby weight that of course she never had. But now, I don't think it's that. He's actually said he prefers someone with, well, who's not a stick! I know a lot of it is that he wants to look older - like early 30's isn't old enough or something. But I think in a lot of ways he's trying to be considerate, to make sure he meets my opinion of PA. I'm not overly fond of facial hair, but there are many worse things in life than that.
The H and I are doing, well, pretty wonderful. We are getting lots of time together, at least as much as one can with a preschooler. Thank goodness for babysitters! I think recovery is going better than could ever be imagined. We no longer fight like we used to. He has really come to understand why I can occasionally become paranoid and worry and has really been working on gaining my trust. I snoop, but I make it seem to him I do more than I really do, just to keep him on his toes. lol. I think he finally gets how much this tore me apart inside. We talk about FOW on occasion, if something triggers a memory for one of us, but it's more to work through it together. Those triggers really do start to go away more and more. I never thought they would.
Thanks for asking about me, Scotty! I do try to check in on occasion - you all here were my saving sanity. Stay strong! {{{{{ScottY}}}}}
Well, tomorrow should have been a happy occasion for me, but instead, it is a sad memory. 14 years ago, I married Bampot. I looked forward to a long life sharing many happy memories, including the birth of our children. Also, all of the accomplishments of those children, grads, weddings, grandchildren, etc. Now, on this date, I am home with our children, surviving each day by creating a life and filling a void left behind.
I grieve for the life I wanted. For the life I imagined I could have. For the life I had planned for my children.
I know I can survive my WH's affair. I have been making a new life for myself and my children. It is getting easier to move forward every day. I don't think about the A as often as I once did, but there are times that I can't seem to escape the crushing sadness. Today, is one of those days. I will be kept busy tomorrow. And I will take car of myself. I just can't see how September 20th will be anything but my anniversary.
On my wedding anniversary, I take the kids out to dinner and we celebrate the day our family was created/founded. I call it "Family Day". The oldest child rolls his eyes and finds it a bit depressing but does it for me and the two younger ones. Maybe it will grow on him.
I can't stay angry or sad for long, it takes too much energy.
When I get upset, or have a lot to think about, I escape to a cocoon. And since there is nothing good on TV(and some of the new shows had some references to A's and laffed about it), I am going to go read until I can't keep my eyes open. G'night all.
I had a weak moment where I thought texting Bampot, "I Swear" at 1032pm tomorrow would be a good idea. I have since come to my senses and remembered that it would be such a bad idea. I am going to make tomorrow the best "ordinary day" I can. Thanx Indie. That really helped me, more than you will ever know.
I had a weak moment where I thought texting Bampot, "I Swear" at 1032pm tomorrow would be a good idea. I have since come to my senses and remembered that it would be such a bad idea. I am going to make tomorrow the best "ordinary day" I can. Thanx Indie. That really helped me, more than you will ever know.
And thank you Scotland, you show me the way Plan B and recovery should be done, inspire me to be strong, and have given support through your advice, more then you will ever know. Including giving me a slap when I need it (re other thread) on the day before your anniversary!
Have you considered doing a "peek"? I know its been recommended once or twice to you -- but its been a long while. Maybe the anniversery is the right time to do that -- and thats why the thought popped in your head?
Thank you for that Lexxxy, I do not believe that I am strong enough for that right now. I am seriously processing my Plan B, and I would give in too easily at this time. I know myself.
I was asked today if I was going to file for a D soon, and I have been thinking about that too. I still won't because if Bampot were to come to my door tomorrow, I would still try to recover with him. That tells me that I am not ready to file. There is no financial need to do so now, so unless Bampot files before I am ready, I will wait until then.
BTW, for those of you who think differently, it actually has NOTHING to do with Bampot. I can say that honestly. It is about ME and where I am at in my recovery.
It's so far off from where someone starts in Plan B, and that is a good thing, but for me, it's not close enough to wanting a D.
There is a lot of processing one goes through while in Plan B. You have a lot of time to think about things. And at first, your thoughts are constantly about your WS and their OP. After a while, and with a lot of nudging by MBers, your focus comes to you. You start to figure out who you are and the life you want. Sometimes, you even realize that your WS doesn't fit into that life anymore. In my case, Bampot would still fit, if he were to agree to MB programs and be repentant for what he has done.
I have been looking at men out an about, trying to figure out my "type" in regards to PA. I even let myself think about what it would be like to have someone else meet my ENs. But it still feels so wrong to me. It still feels like I am cheating on Bampot, and that's how I KNOW I am NOT ready.
I know that DrH suggests 2 years for Plan B. I also know that in my case, I have stated that I would need more time than that. I have actually stated that I would refuse to speak to Bampot directly in any way as long as he is still having an A with WF. So, instead of asking me when my Plan B will end(since I just stated that date), the question will be, "When am I ready to file for a D?" That answer is 2 fold. When I am ready to be D, or if I need it for financial reasons. So, until then, I will continue to focus on creating a life for my children and I. And this life will be GRAND. Because, I said so.
Something to consider Scotty, if Bampot actually DID decide to straighten up his act and come home, I think he would be very surprised to find that the woman/wife he returns to isn't the same person. I KNOW you would set the bar very high because you've become such a strong woman. It would be the hardest thing he's ever done in his life because you've already done all the personal work and he hasn't even started. It would be hard on you too so just make very sure if that opportunity arose that you are prepared.
If you were to find you need to file for financial reasons, could you do that in a timely timeframe? Aleviate the financial strain in a quick enough fashion? I know you are heralded here as a master MBer, but you sound much to me like a wait-and-see'r.
I am no expert, but I would be **edit** if I'd wait out a two year affair. Are your d days involving the same OW?
If you were to find you need to file for financial reasons, could you do that in a timely timeframe? Aleviate the financial strain in a quick enough fashion? I know you are heralded here as a master MBer, but you sound much to me like a wait-and-see'r.
I am no expert, but I would be **edit** if I'd wait out a two year affair. Are your d days involving the same OW?
If a BS does not want to wait out her spouse's affair then of course she can file for divorce and have done with it.
However, the infidelity part of Dr Harley's programme applies to those who wish to attempt marital recovery. That YOU wouldn't wish to recover your marriage after a two-year timeframe is immaterial. There is no need to insult Scotty or anyone else in Plan B. "Heralded here as a master MBer" is simply a disguised attack.
Dr Harley advises that spouses (who want to follow Plan B; nobody has to do it) should give the WS up to two years before filing for divorce. Please don't mock someone for following his advice.
I was asked today if I was going to file for a D soon, and I have been thinking about that too. I still won't because if Bampot were to come to my door tomorrow, I would still try to recover with him. That tells me that I am not ready to file. There is no financial need to do so now, so unless Bampot files before I am ready, I will wait until then.
BTW, for those of you who think differently, it actually has NOTHING to do with Bampot. I can say that honestly. It is about ME and where I am at in my recovery.
I totally get this. How many times have we seen a BS go to D or plan FU too soon, and then in a few months time, they have a repentant spouse on their hands, doing all the right things plus a new bf or gf, who has done nothing wrong but is now no longer the sole focus of affections.
The BS ends up being in love with two people, a situation none of us want.
I like Scotty will ask myself the key q, 'Would I reconcile if he were truly repentant?' Before i divorce. I would want to be truly done.
That's because I would want any new relationship to be extraordinary - and you need a clean slate to do that.
Anything less is irresponsible.
I hope in my case that my personal recovery wont take two years - but it might.
There really is no way to find out except to be a 'wait'n'seer'
the betrayed spouse is still in the driver seat of plan B.
Whether they file for a legal sep/D or not
they are still where they are. LOL.
A divorce would make them legally/morally available to find another love but they feel what they feel what they feel. The only plus to filing something is it might (actions) help to create a new sense of empowerment to heal.
Plans of action vs feelings alone (actions create feelings as MB shows us).
You can file and still be open to future reconciliation just as if you did not. Could you find someone else? Yes.
Would that complicate things? Yes.
Would your WH need to meet very stringent guidelines of willingness to recover the marriage. Heck yes.
I believe the hardest part about personal recovery and staying in love during Plan B is perseverance.
I find I go back and forth between love and no love. I must be close to draining my love bank. My anger is gaining strength due to his abandonment of our children.
My Plan B incorporates me understanding and grasping the nature of affairs as an addiction. Remembering he is addicted to the person and the fun he had while deployed helps me to keep my love for him.
I find Scotty's perseverance through her Plan B as a goal I hope to attain. I still look at my many kids and realize saving my marriage is still the best option, so I must have perseverance.
I understand the nature of Plan B. When I am completely dark I find myself so much healthier. I feel today I can finally let go of the control over my WH's life, and refocus it in being a great mom.
I see the pain of my children everyday from my WH's abscense. It is tragic and truly devastating to watch. It is hard to not call him up, rip him a new one, and go into Plan FU.
Plan B allows me to keep those thoughts to myself, and then refocus on why it isn't my job to educate him.
I enjoy the perseverance, discipline, and nature of Plan B. I find it inspiring to read others who are in Plan B, and have gone on to grow and come out a better person. I realize that is likely my outcome. I will be divorced and saving my marriage is unlikely today. I will come out of this a better person.
the betrayed spouse is still in the driver seat of plan B.
Whether they file for a legal sep/D or not
they are still where they are. LOL.
A divorce would make them legally/morally available to find another love but they feel what they feel what they feel. The only plus to filing something is it might (actions) help to create a new sense of empowerment to heal.
I filed immediately and D was final in 6 months after D day. However, my situation was different than Scottie's in several ways. My WH was a seriel cheater. I found out unbelievable, gut wrenching stuff about his behavior over the course of our 25 year marriage. I didn't want him. And I wanted to be absolutely certain I did not allow him any room to try and suck me back in.
I keep watching Scottie with amazement. I think she has to do what she thinks is best...and that doesn't make her any better or worse at MB'ing or SAA than others of us. My concern is that she might somehow get STUCK on Plan B....but I've seen small signs of movement in her thinking and I do believe she is approaching the end of her Plan B.
Thank you for all your kind words. Even the words encouraging me to move on are taken as the way they seem to be intended, as help for me. They may help someone else, as there are many who read my thread now, and many more who may benefit from it in the future.
I was speaking to a woman at work today. Her DH passed away 15 years ago. She has 3 daughters, they are now in their 20's. She started dating, for the first time, since her DH passed, 2 years ago. She is going to be married in less than a year. I told her that I was feeling pressure to file for a D, but I felt like I am really not ready for that yet. She told me, "Then don't. You'll know when it is time. Look at how much you have changed and grown so far. You'll be ready one day, but not today." She was so right. I have changed. I am still moving in the right direction.
SW, you don't need to worry about me getting stuck. In these almost 2 years, I have gone from, "I don't want to have a BF ever again," to, "It might be nice to have someone who cherishes me and treats me right, and it doesn't necessarily need to be Bampot." For me, that is HUGE.
CW, yes, the DDays were the same OW. I already knew that this journey of mine wasn't going to be an easy one. I accepted that. But I want to make everyone aware. Being in Plan B, and following the MB plans is exactly the right choice for me.
I am such an advocate for the MB way, that I am being extra hard on myself right now. I feel like I need to move on at the 2 year mark, because that's what DrH suggested in his books. But, it's not right for me, only because I need more time. Thing is, I don't feel like I am not doing MB right, I actually feel like I am doing it exactly right for me. I am staying dark. I am working on recovering myself. I am focused on my healing. I am creating a life without my WH. I am laughing with friends. I am not only surviving an affair, I am thriving.
So, I think I am going to be a little less hard on myself, and let this recovery lead me where it is supposed to, and that is, RECOVERED( I am speaking personally of course).
PM, don't worry, I have already come to terms with that. And to be honest, I know that Bampot has that in him, and I am worth it, so if he doesn't want to do the work, I don't want him. I am holding out for someone who IS willing to do the work, because I am willing to do all of the work needed on my side of the fence, and that includes getting personally recovered, if my marriage is going to be over.
I just wanna say, Scotty, you impress the heck out of me. B is for personal recovery and you are doing perfect for you.
Sometimes I read your thread and my taker starts screaming that you need to move on and leave your WH to the wolves. Then, other times, it just awes me that you're strong enough to know what you need to do to get right.
Thankfully, the awe is coming more often than the screaming taker now (she is SO annoying and selfish!).
Your last few pages remind me of step 4 in AA/Alanon, which, since I'm redoing it all, is rough for me this time around, due to the A. Your thread helps me a great deal there.
I was asked today if I was going to file for a D soon, and I have been thinking about that too. I still won't because if Bampot were to come to my door tomorrow, I would still try to recover with him. That tells me that I am not ready to file. There is no financial need to do so now, so unless Bampot files before I am ready, I will wait until then.
BTW, for those of you who think differently, it actually has NOTHING to do with Bampot. I can say that honestly. It is about ME and where I am at in my recovery.
Fact is, Scotty knows just what shes doing, and the two year mark is proven to be the time when the human brain starts to come back to earth.
Not just from My observations and experienece Not just from DR Hs, experienece. But from Tons of scientific data on human behavior thats out there, case files, etc.
If there is a bunch of crazy things getting in his way of stopping and thinking, two years might not be long enough, and of course pride and stubborness, also play a big part in this.
Bampot, although maybe having other contributing factors that is keeping him where he is, instead of home where he belongs, might take longer before he has a proper thought take charge in his head, but thier is no doubt that Scotty is doing the best for those boys to have a chance to respect thier Dad, and that is a gift to those boys, that would be imearsureable.
Yeah Scotty, I understand it totally, and your example and strength for the boys is worth more than gold. They are the important victims in this, and you are caring for them well.
You live in affairland, you know how nasty that place is. God Bless you.
CP, I just want to clarify something. This is NOT about giving Bampot more time. This has NOTHING to do with Bampot. I mean it. I am not ready to label myself a divorcee. Whenever I think about filing for a D, my stomach turns, and I have a small anxiety attack. And why would I be filing for a D right now? I am no where near ready to date. I don't need to do it for financial reasons. I don't need to do it right now to protect myself. If I would be totally honest, I might file for a D right now as a last chance to wake Bampot up. That is the LAST reason that someone should file for a D.
When I am ready, I will file, if Bampot hasn't filed first. If he does file, I will deal with that, and I am ready. It's funny, I no longer get anxiety about being served papers. If it happens, it happens.
I am harder on myself than on anyone else. I hold myself to a higher standard, because I KNOW when I can do better. I push myself because no one else can. Changing who you are, or who you have become, isn't easy. And as I was told, recovery is a marathon, not a sprint. I feel like I am in the last 1/4 of that marathon, and I have a really mean end kick. IRL, when I was a runner, my kick at the end could be matched by no other, because that's when I give my ALL. Let's see what the last of this run will take me.
Everyone moves at their own pace, so don't be hard on yourself!
There is another poster, I am sure more then one, but she was in Plan B for at least 4 years because she was not ready. But once she was, there was no stopping her! She moved on beautifully. I haven't seen her post in quite awhile so her name escapes me, heck, it is hard for me to remember what I had for dinner last night sometimes!
Reading, there isn't "legal separation" in Canada. You can have a separation agreement which would be binding but can change if both parties agree. It is usually done to determine visitation, CS, SS etc. Since Bampot follows what I outlined there is no need for me to get one done. That's why the next step for me would be to file for a D. I have looked into what is needed and what steps I need to take. I am fully prepared for it, when I need it.
In Canada, you have to be separated for 1 year before you can file for a D and then, if both parties agree to the terms of the D, it is final after 30 days of being filed with the courts. In the case of adultery, the BS has the right to file for a D immediately(the WS would have to wait). And you can actually live under the same roof and be considered separated. There are some strange laws
So, if your wayward started a life of crime (drunk driving, mayhem, murder, robbery, etc), or squandered the joint assets and or allowed you no access to them...you would need to D.
I know Scotty, and just because I am on the outside looking in, don't think I have an attitude of being wise, or smarter that your instincts
I think you are doing awesome
My main concern and appreciation is for your character and strength for the boys. Yes is serves you, but in turn serves them
You are NOT an affairland drama boo-hoo queen willing to sacrifice the permanent on the alter of the immediate
On the outside, it is easy to see that this is unfolding as normal Bampot will see you moving on, and I expect he will then react
I expect your reaction will be to want to smack the spoiled brat in the nose, and then too it will have it's moments of pain
Like you said, if he isn't up to manning up and coming home, you don't want his dizzy butt anyway. By that time your heart will be completly healed in the personal sense, but it will still ache for the boys. In that way you will still carry that burden
You have been here long enough, and I suspect you knew even before you came here, that it's the ones with objectivity and compassion, that suffer the most, when we are dealing with the emotionally deficient
You will be fine Scotty Rocks, and boys too. I am not worried about what you are doing at all
Im sorry if I dont explain myself clear enough Scotty, I deeply respect you and you also bring to my mind much better ways to live as I watch this unfold.
Im sorry if I dont explain myself clear enough Scotty, I deeply respect you and you also bring to my mind much better ways to live as I watch this unfold.
No worries CP, you explained yourself just fine. Thank you.
There is no end to Plan B in sight, even if at some point Scotty decides to file.
Why would anyone want to speak to an active WS just because a D was complete?
For anyone on here, across the board, no exceptions, I recommend that once Plan B starts, it is not discarded until the OP is discarded.
Those little "peeks" are a whole different, and controversial subject. But to open the doors wide to C with a WS just because the D is final, no, no, no! A thousand times no!!!
Here is what 1,000 no's look like.
No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no! No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no!
I agree that I won't have direct contact with Bampot while he is active in his A with OW. That is a MINIMUM that I am doing. He could still be a POS wayward, which would make me continue to not want any contact with him. Dunno, but I'll deal with it when I need to.
For anyone on here, across the board, no exceptions, I recommend that once Plan B starts, it is not discarded until the OP is discarded.
I agree with Neak here 100%.
Why fulfill their need for conversation? Throughout my marriage, I used to make WXW laugh all the time. Now there is a hole there and I know she misses it.
I have been thinking a lot about how far I have come. It is funny. It seems to happen all of a sudden, but it really takes a lot of small steps. I changed in many small ways, and then one day it hit me, "I am not the same person I once was." My ideas about marriage have drastically changed. MB has become almost second nature.
It's funny looking around the world, and seeing people who could be helped. I try when I think they will be receptive, and I talk about MB in the best most brightest light. This should be common knowledge amongst ALL married couples. It would help a lot of people. And the MB program would help stop a lot of hurt.
The boys are still having a hard time at times. Their lives weren't upturned too badly, so I think that helped. Moments have come up(you know, normal growing up things), that I have wished I wasn't raising them on my own, but we get through. In some ways, I think that we have a closer relationship than we would have. And for that, I am grateful. For one, my hours at work are much better(although not as many). I spend every evening with them, and that is important to me. They are some really funny kids.
Yesterday, I was at work, talking about normal things(not as much A talk as it was before) and someone said to me, "You are always so happy and bubbly. It's contagious, and everyone always wants to be around you." I said "Thank you"(see Pep, I am learning). And then someone else said, "When you talk to people, you make them feel like you really care, and they are a friend." I never even realized that I did that. It's just easier to be happy.
There is one thing I really need to work on. I still sometimes call Bampot, "My husband." I try to use his first name whenever possible, or call him "My son's father," but sometimes, I find myself saying, "My husband." I mentally slap my hand. I don't cringe when other people call him my Ex, but I still can't say that. When I say, "My husband," I do then tell that person that we are separated because he is having an affair and left. That my one condition he refused to meet was NOT having an A, how silly. They laugh and agree that I am being just so tough and holding him to ridiculous standards.
Gotta go off and make some more people happy now. After my boxing coach kills me that is(why do I do this to myself? And I pay him to torture me, GEEZ)
This is funny. The other day I went to breakfast with my gang of "girls". I split an order with one woman, and she insisted on paying. I started to try to force money on her, then, I thought about my advice to you and I stopped myself and said: "That is so generous of you. Thank you very much."
Quote
And then someone else said, "When you talk to people, you make them feel like you really care, and they are a friend."
You shouldn't beat yourself up for still calling him your husband. There are terms you can use like estranged or stbx but that still doesn't negate the fact that he still is your husband.
I, too, have tried to think of something else to call my ww but I always end right back at "wife". The way I see it, whether or not she acts like it or wants to acknowledge it, she is still my wife and she will remain that way until the papers are signed.
You have come a long way and have helped many, myself included. Don't stop and just keep moving forward.
Bampot called the boys this morning to inform them that he will be attending a wedding today with OW and he will not be picking them up. I have no one to watch the boys, so I needed to call off, on a week when I only was working today and tomorrow. I am so TICKED. I sent a reminder through the IM that messages are NOT to go through the boys. PIZZED.
Also, they are going to a WEDDING? Seriously? Like either of them even believe in wedding vows, the turds. And to top it all off, it's Bampot choosing OW over his sons once again.
I did receive a message through the IM sometime in August about Bampot not being able to take the boys today, but I passed on that he would need to pay me for a missed day work, or find someone to watch them himself.
I hadn't heard anything from IM after, so I figured he had decided to get a sitter(like his Wsis). I did tell my mom yesterday that I expected him to just not show up today. I figured that he might pull this, because really, what was I gonna do?
The boys are happy though. They don't like going over there anyways.
I can't believe how mad I am. It's not like it was really bad, but it affected me, and my children. And for a WEDDING? Maybe she wants to be there for the start of her next victim's marriage. I don't even know why someone would have someone in their wedding party who is having an affair with a MM. People should really have higher standards.
I am gonna do some stuff with the boys today to make it a good day, and hopefully get me outta this funk. ARGH AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Caracal, well the day wasn't anything special. We watched movies, played games and I got to watch the boys wrestle play with each other. I love to hear them laugh. Also, tonight, they are in their bed, as it should be every night. For that, I AM grateful.
I am not as angry at Bampot, but boy oh boy was I ticked. I shouldn't be surprised, but honestly, who the heck is this man? I know who he is, OW's lap dog. I can't even imagine what it takes to get a normal, decent man to allow himself to become this. I know who my husband was, the man I married, the man I was with for almost 20 years, and this person, he comes no where near that man.
I know that my marriage was not all sunshine and lollipops. I wasn't a perfect wife by any stretch of the imagination. I did my best. I did what I knew how to do. I didn't realize that Bampot had such weak boundaries and I didn't see the danger in them, until I came here. Now, everything taught by DrH through his books and this site is second nature to me. I see where I made mistakes in my marriage and where Bampot did as well. I also know that I stayed loyal. I didn't stray, but only because I was a little tighter with my boundaries. I could have so easily become wayward myself. Heck, if I hadn't found MB, I would most likely be wayward right now, with a cake eating wayward visiting my home and sharing parenting moments with me. Oh I SHUDDER at the thought.
I have learned a lot here, and I am eternally grateful for all of the support. Just knowing that there are others whom I can share my pain with, and they understand, has been a true blessing in life. I thank you all. Even all of those lurkers who haven't posted before. I see the views, and I know that you're out there.
Now off to read some smutty paranormal romance. I need to get some ideas before I start NaNoWriMo on the 1st. I forget who I saw post about that, but thank you. it will be a welcome distraction in November. The little hamster in my mind has been running overtime trying to come up with an idea. I think it will be a romance, but I dunno yet. i will let the characters lead me to their story. Night all.
I have been feeling loads of horrible today, and I dunno why. It started first thing this morning, and hasn't let up since. It's like a feeling of dread, and I have been on the verge of tears, for no known reason. My friend suggested that it may be because this is when I first found MB(on Oct 30th, the first night Bampot ever went out and didn't come home). I dunno, it could be. Then, this evening, I was talking about a Halloween party that I will be attending next weekend, while the boys are with Bampot. DS8 says, "Mommy, remember that time that Daddy went to the Halloween party and didn't come home?"he started crying and he said, "He didn't tuck us in because he was with She who shouldn't be named(they call her this, not I)." I hugged him and said, "But I was here to tuck you in, and I have tucked you in ever since." He smiled, but he said he was still mad at Bampot for that.
Then DS11 mentions that Bampot asked them if they were mad that he didn't pick them up last Saturday and went to the wedding instead. I said, "Well, what did you say?" He said, "We didn't say anything." They don't want to tell Bampot anything that would make him mad at them. They don't really talk to him on the phone anymore, and they stopped using the email in March. They even want me to find a way so they only need to go with Bampot every other weekend, instead of every Sunday. Those poor kids.
DS11 says that he still wishes that daddy would come home. That kills me, because I don't think Bampot, or any wayward for that fact, even thinks about how poorly their decisions effect their children, and for how long. *edit* (haven't said that in a while, I think).
After many years of marriage, a husband has turned into a couch potato, became completely inattentive to his wife and sat guzzling beer and watching TV all day. The wife was dismayed because no matter what she did to attract the husband's attention, he'd just shrug her off with some bored comment.
This went on for many months and the wife was going crazy with boredom. Then one day at a pet store, the wife saw this big, ugly, snorting bird with a hairy chest, powerful hairy forearms, beady eyes and dribble running down the side of its mouth.
The shopkeeper, observing her fascination with the bird, told her it was a special imported "Goony bird" and it had a very peculiar trait. To demonstrate, he exclaimed, "Goony bird! The table!"
Immediately, the Goony bird flew off its perch and with single-minded fury attacked the table and smashed it into a hundred little pieces with its powerful forearms and claws! To demonstrate some more, the shopkeeper said, "Goony bird! The shelf!"
Again the Goony bird turned to the shelf and demolished it in seconds.
"Wow!" said the wife, "If this doesn't attract my husband's attention, nothing will!" So she bought the bird and took it home.
When she entered the house, the husband was, as usual, sprawled on the sofa guzzling beer and watching the game. "Honey!" she exclaimed, "I've got a surprise for you! A Goony bird!"
The husband, in his usual bored tone replied, "Goony Bird, my foot!"
I am up late watching "Robin Hood" a TV series on Netflix. LOVING it. It's helping to make me feel better. And the music I was listening to earlier as well. Looking forward to writing in the NaNoWriMo next month too. It just irks me that I am feeling this way today, and for no good reason. I'll feel better, hopefully tomorrow.
I KNOW I love them. And today, I have been getting the best medicine from them. I am listening to them play, and LAUGH together. Oh how I will miss these days when they are grown.
Well, today I started writing my first novel. I think it was Karmarose that metioned the NaNoWriMo before. If you haven't heard about it' you should check into it. It is worldwide and everyone who participates tried to write 50 000 words in the month of November. That is 1667 words per day. Well, I managaed to write 2009. I could have written more but $y children needed attention, and food since apparently it's the law that I need to feed them(hehehehe).
I hope everyone took my earlier comment as the joke it was intended as. I just meant that I am still so young to this site and I need to learn a lot more.
So, Bampot has made it official. He brought OW to his mother's house, with the boys and OW'sD, on Saturday to introduce them. When DSx2 came home the first thing they mentioned was having gone to Nana's and OW going with them. I felt like the wind had been knocked out of me. I am trying hard not to analyze what happened and just let it be, since it is what it is. The people around me insist on re-hashing it and I am just too tired to do it. I ask them to please keep their thoughts and ideas to themselves but some of it still stuck. My mom said that this was bad because it meant that he was trying to make a life with OW(to which I thought about how my mom brought her OM to see my elderly grandma and it was nothing more than an A that died a natural death anyways). My sister just thought that it was awful for my MIL to accept this enemy to her grandson's family into her home, but since she was wayward herself in her marriage to my FIL and allows her wayward daughter to bring her OM and her OC to her house, I wasn't surprised in the least. My friend said that maybe this means that reality will start slipping in faster now. Meh. I am just surprised that they waited this long as I had expected it last year.
It doesn't mean anything different for my Plan B, or my personal recovery(except for the hit to my LB and the thought circling around the sharktank once again). I still only have personal recovery to deal with and I am attacking that head on.
Again, I thank everyone who has been with me on this long and hard journey. Without ALL of you, the person I am today would never have been possible. Thank you all.
PS sorry if there any typos, I am posting from my Blackberry.
It is a blip on the radar of your new life. A moment that was a bit of a sucker punch and then...meaningless in the journey of YOU. Beautiful, sweet, smart, funny Scotty whom I love dearly. *hugs* dear one.
You are so right reading. It absolutely does suck, but no surprise as I stated.
Thank you FF. That is the truth. And I luv ya lots too.
There are many BSs who say, "But no one will put pressure on my WS so I shouldn't expose." I am here to tell you that even if no one does put pressure on the WS and OP, they still KNOW. That brings me some peace today. I also get to see who around me has different morals and values then the ones I hold dear. I actually look at them as being less strong than I. It is easier to just go along and lwt people behave badly without interferring. It takes a person with strength and courage to go against the grain. I hate to admit that I didn't speak loud enough before I found MB. Those marriages needed someone to fight for them, and I didn't help as much as I would have now. I am determined to not make that mistake again.
I am definitely raising $y children to be upstanding people who WILL show strength and courage and will always stand for what is right. They know what I would do to them if they ever committed adultery. But they'll have MB, so that shouldn't be a problem.
I am here to tell you that even if no one does put pressure on the WS and OP, they still KNOW. That brings me some peace today. I also get to see who around me has different morals and values then the ones I hold dear. I actually look at them as being less strong than I. It is easier to just go along and lwt people behave badly without interferring. It takes a person with strength and courage to go against the grain.
One thing I know for certain, your shining example will not go unnoticed by the circle of people in your life. You may not immediately recognize the impact that your example has on others, but believe me, it is felt.
Your ability to hold up your values, and speak the truth all the while maintaining the best relationship possible with those who are too weak to maintain their values .... you are seen (by them and by others) as strong and powerful. But fully human, despite your strength and power. And courage! Strong and powerful, but not bullying the weaker in your circle. This is rare. This is precious. This is God's grace at work in you.
If you look beyond your own pain, you can see how your life has meaning and purpose. All of us can do this. Some never try. You try. You succeed. Amazing Grace.
A moment that was a bit of a sucker punch and then...meaningless in the journey of YOU.
I'm not done with you, FF. You may never know the impact of how meeting you and your children in person for the first time rocked me to my core. I was undone. Sure, I was outwardly jovial, and I entertained and interacted with those at the gathering, but I was deeply troubled. I was troubled by my lack of knowledge of what it was like to be you. To carry your burdens. I went home and I thought about it on and off for quite awhile. Know what I realized? I also did not know what it was like to be you when you were washed with the great and powerful love I saw in you that day. What kind of woman turns her greatest sorrow into her greatest strength? Amazing Grace. Just AMAZING.
Just make a tiny mental note of people who will not be allowed back in the family circle with or without R, and go on. Unless, of course, there is a complete repentance and change into a whole new person.
Just like an A to a WS, their moral weakness only reflects badly on MIL et al, and not one bit on you.
Scot--2009 words in your first day? You're already ahead of me....I'm only at around 1900 words.
This is my third Nano, technically--I did the one last year, and one of the "camp" nanos earlier in the year.
It's a lot of hard work isn't it?
Yes, it is a lot of work. I was writing today, and I almost wanted to start a whole new story and throw away what I wrote yesterday. I didn't though. The story has been ever changing in my mind over the past month that I have been thinking about it.
I need to fix my computer(I can't access the internet after getting rid of spyware) before I will be able to upload anything to the official counter though, so I am making sure that I write as much as I can now. I know that at some point, I am going to find it hard to write 100 words in a day, so I am taking advantage of this spurt. Thank you for mentioning it, somewhere on here.
Pep, you keep making me cry, stop that
And I agree, Faith is amazing grace. I am honoured to know her as well. I am honoured to "know" many of you.
You're welcome. Writing can be a great way to go on--and keep writing, as much as you can. Just throw it out there--you can edit later, delete things LATER. Just get the novel out!
Now if only I could get a publisher interested in a book that involves Merlin, Nimue, and Dracula...
Well, you may not have a publisher interested in it yet, but I would be interested to read that. 2354 words last night, and I felt better about the novel. It's coming along. I decided to write this one third person, as a real challenge, since I usually write first person. I caught myself slipping into first person a few times, and laughed.
Otherwise, Plan B train is chugging along. Nothing new to report except the small steps away from who I was two years ago.
I was a little worried about how it would be viewed, for Dracula to be a techie type who can track you from one end of the city to another without ever leaving his room, or ranting about the "rabble" that passes for vampires these days...
Oh wait, that last part, if he WERE real, would probably be accurate.
A moment that was a bit of a sucker punch and then...meaningless in the journey of YOU.
I'm not done with you, FF. You may never know the impact of how meeting you and your children in person for the first time rocked me to my core. I was undone. Sure, I was outwardly jovial, and I entertained and interacted with those at the gathering, but I was deeply troubled. I was troubled by my lack of knowledge of what it was like to be you. To carry your burdens. I went home and I thought about it on and off for quite awhile. Know what I realized? I also did not know what it was like to be you when you were washed with the great and powerful love I saw in you that day. What kind of woman turns her greatest sorrow into her greatest strength? Amazing Grace. Just AMAZING.
Just as I am exhausted and at the end of my rope I see this. Thank you dear friend. It's been rough lately...really rough but my God sees me through each and every day and for that I am beyond thankful. My father had a mild heart attack nearly two weeks ago which led to triple bypass surgery and aortic valve replacement. Now he is recovering in a SNF and is having short term memory problems and delusions. Between my crazy work schedule and dad I keep thinking God must know my plate is beyond full. Ah well, that is why I have Him to lean on.
Sorry for going off topic, I needed to share today. Love you bunches and bunches, Pep (and you Scotty and neakie-poo)
Now he is recovering in a SNF and is having short term memory problems and delusions.
Those problems are a common occurance after heart surgery. It is because of the medication during and after surgery and because his entire system has been turned upside down. It will go away gradually.
Well, I purposely waited until today to write here. I wanted it to be about the anniversary of my Plan B. Tomorrow is the actual day, but with birthday celebrations, shopping, etc, I dunno how much I will be on tomorrow. I figure I may as well get it over with, like ripping off a bandaid.
Firstly, I didn't finish the 50000 for NaNoWriMo, but I did more than half. There's always next year.
As my 2 year mark was approaching, I started feeling the need to defend why I was still in Plan B, with no Plan D. It is true that DrH suggests 2 years for Plan B. I understand that. I also agree with it, for most people. I know that there are some people who will enter Plan D quite quickly, and others who will enter it even after the timeline I have set for myself. Know that I indeed HAVE set a deadline. That deadline is for me only, as I may decide to shorten it. There IS one though, so don`t worry.
Why have I decided not to enter Plan D, yet? There are a few reasons, the main one is that I am not ready to be divorced. I am not ready to attach that label to myself. I can't even think about it yet, I'm just not ready.
Also, financially, I have things I must consider. As it is, Bampot pays me what he should, and does so on a timely basis. I don't need to file to ensure I get the money I should for the care of my children. If the need arose, I would do so, immediately. I am aware of my legal rights, and all legal avenues I could take.
I can't afford to buy Bampot out of the house. Unless he would be willing to sign it over, right now, with no strings attached, I would need to move. I don't wish to do that, so I am not going to press the issue.
Then, comes the medical insurance. While it is true that we can go to a hospital, etc, here for free, we do need to pay for prescriptions, dental care, eyecare, etc. As long as I am legally married to Bampot, he needs to keep me on his coverage.
I KNOW, logically that Bampot may never return, especially since the 2 year mark is passing. I know many posters didn't expect Bampot's affair to last this long. I know some others aren't surprised. I wasn't in either camp, because I deal with what is in front of me, at the moment, and right now, Bampot isn't pounding down my door begging for forgiveness, so his affair is of no great concern to me, and has no direct impact on the life I am creating, for me and my boys.
The other morning, DS8 was wearing a pair of red Olympic mittens. He was playing with them, as if they were people. He looked at me and said, "Mommy, this is you(showed me his right hand) and this is daddy(his left hand which was apart from the right one)." He then started shaking his left hand around and said, "I don't like you anymore, I'm LEAVING." And then the left hand went over to the right one, and they clasped. It broke my heart. After 2 years, my DS8 still wishes that his father come home and make things right. A part of me wishes that as well. A small part.
I was asked the other day if I believed that Bampot would return home. I answered as truthfully as I could. I told her that I believed that the happiest either Bampot or I could ever be would be with the other parent of our children. I told her that I firmly believed in DrH's words on that. Also, I told her that I have heard DrH talk about how BW's(after a D of course) shouldn't date until their children are grown. That would mean that I would have about 10 more years of no dating. So, what's the rush in getting a divorce? It's not like I need to get it done with. I will get there(and don't worry, it won't be 10 more years before I file).
Now, for those of you who have been on this journey with me, I thank you. All of you have helped me more than you will ever know, and more than I could ever repay. You ALL had a huge impact on the person I have now become. I think that I am more proud of the person I am today than at any other time in my life. I feel the most at peace, as if I am where I am supposed to be, and on the correct path. I have all of YOU to thank for it. MB ROCKS.
There isn't much about Plan B that needs to be written. Once you are firmly in it, there isn't a lot to update. I wanted others to see the feelings, and understand that they aren't alone.
Plan B is a God's send. It has helped me in ways I could never have imagined. I hope that if you find yourself at the end of your rope, and without hope, that you try to Plan A and then Plan B. It will help you recover in ways that you could never have imagined. And, either way, you will not only survive your spouses affair, you will THRIVE.
On another positive note, last Monday, my children's principal called me, and asked me to come in. I did. He then told me that an upstanding member of the community wanted to sponsor a family for Christmas, and the principal chose our family. I was handed $300 in cash. It will be used well, and was accepted with a thank you(see Pep?). I even wrote a letter to the anonymous man and sent it via the principal. The blessings just keep coming. Thank you.
Well, I purposely waited until today to write here. I wanted it to be about the anniversary of my Plan B. Tomorrow is the actual day, but with birthday celebrations, shopping, etc, I dunno how much I will be on tomorrow. I figure I may as well get it over with, like ripping off a bandaid.
Firstly, I didn't finish the 50000 for NaNoWriMo, but I did more than half. There's always next year.
As my 2 year mark was approaching, I started feeling the need to defend why I was still in Plan B, with no Plan D. It is true that DrH suggests 2 years for Plan B. I understand that. I also agree with it, for most people. I know that there are some people who will enter Plan D quite quickly, and others who will enter it even after the timeline I have set for myself. Know that I indeed HAVE set a deadline. That deadline is for me only, as I may decide to shorten it. There IS one though, so don`t worry.
Why have I decided not to enter Plan D, yet? There are a few reasons, the main one is that I am not ready to be divorced. I am not ready to attach that label to myself. I can't even think about it yet, I'm just not ready.
Also, financially, I have things I must consider. As it is, Bampot pays me what he should, and does so on a timely basis. I don't need to file to ensure I get the money I should for the care of my children. If the need arose, I would do so, immediately. I am aware of my legal rights, and all legal avenues I could take.
I can't afford to buy Bampot out of the house. Unless he would be willing to sign it over, right now, with no strings attached, I would need to move. I don't wish to do that, so I am not going to press the issue.
Then, comes the medical insurance. While it is true that we can go to a hospital, etc, here for free, we do need to pay for prescriptions, dental care, eyecare, etc. As long as I am legally married to Bampot, he needs to keep me on his coverage.
I KNOW, logically that Bampot may never return, especially since the 2 year mark is passing. I know many posters didn't expect Bampot's affair to last this long. I know some others aren't surprised. I wasn't in either camp, because I deal with what is in front of me, at the moment, and right now, Bampot isn't pounding down my door begging for forgiveness, so his affair is of no great concern to me, and has no direct impact on the life I am creating, for me and my boys.
The other morning, DS8 was wearing a pair of red Olympic mittens. He was playing with them, as if they were people. He looked at me and said, "Mommy, this is you(showed me his right hand) and this is daddy(his left hand which was apart from the right one)." He then started shaking his left hand around and said, "I don't like you anymore, I'm LEAVING." And then the left hand went over to the right one, and they clasped. It broke my heart. After 2 years, my DS8 still wishes that his father come home and make things right. A part of me wishes that as well. A small part.
I was asked the other day if I believed that Bampot would return home. I answered as truthfully as I could. I told her that I believed that the happiest either Bampot or I could ever be would be with the other parent of our children. I told her that I firmly believed in DrH's words on that. Also, I told her that I have heard DrH talk about how BW's(after a D of course) shouldn't date until their children are grown. That would mean that I would have about 10 more years of no dating. So, what's the rush in getting a divorce? It's not like I need to get it done with. I will get there(and don't worry, it won't be 10 more years before I file).
Now, for those of you who have been on this journey with me, I thank you. All of you have helped me more than you will ever know, and more than I could ever repay. You ALL had a huge impact on the person I have now become. I think that I am more proud of the person I am today than at any other time in my life. I feel the most at peace, as if I am where I am supposed to be, and on the correct path. I have all of YOU to thank for it. MB ROCKS.
There isn't much about Plan B that needs to be written. Once you are firmly in it, there isn't a lot to update. I wanted others to see the feelings, and understand that they aren't alone.
Plan B is a God's send. It has helped me in ways I could never have imagined. I hope that if you find yourself at the end of your rope, and without hope, that you try to Plan A and then Plan B. It will help you recover in ways that you could never have imagined. And, either way, you will not only survive your spouses affair, you will THRIVE.
On another positive note, last Monday, my children's principal called me, and asked me to come in. I did. He then told me that an upstanding member of the community wanted to sponsor a family for Christmas, and the principal chose our family. I was handed $300 in cash. It will be used well, and was accepted with a thank you(see Pep?). I even wrote a letter to the anonymous man and sent it via the principal. The blessings just keep coming. Thank you.
I'm glad you are feeling at peace Scotty. Great news on the $300 gift!
Thank-you for the update and inspiration Scotland.
I am glad you are able to explain the reasons for your not entering Plan D. I don't feel in any way that you need to justify yourself though. I don't think this is your intention either. You are showing your giver, because reading this will helps other posters in making their own decision.
Reading about your journey, and with this update, I have to think about what Bampot is missing out on. I believe should Bampot ever come crawling back full of remorse, YOU would have the strength, grace and wisdom to give 100% to recovery should you decide to. Bampot would have his work cut out for him to meet your bar for recovery and to become the man worthy of you.
I am glad that regardless of Bampots actions, your life is blessed. Your children, heartbreaking as it is to hear the effect of Bampot's actions on them, are blessed to have you. Too many betrayed spouses (often without MB) do not thrive, and do not become the role model so desperately needed when the wayward crosses to the dark side. You should be proud.
First, we are going to use at least $30 to purchase toys to donate to Salvation Army(I was the recipient of a doll from them when I was a child, which my mother kept, and I now have in my China cabinet as a reminder of the charity and goodwill of others)so they may be passed onto those less fortunate than ourselves. We will be heading out into the wilderness of retail shopping the last Sunday before Christmas, so the boys can choose what to buy.
Then, there are some things that the boys needed, and I wasn't certain I could buy until after Christmas. The money will help ease the burden, and make Christmas that much easier to handle financially. It is a a true blessing. I am grateful for it.
First, we are going to use at least $30 to purchase toys to donate to Salvation Army(I was the recipient of a doll from them when I was a child, which my mother kept, and I now have in my China cabinet as a reminder of the charity and goodwill of others)so they may be passed onto those less fortunate than ourselves. We will be heading out into the wilderness of retail shopping the last Sunday before Christmas, so the boys can choose what to buy.
The true spirit of Christmas, a really lovely gift for the boys and the recipient.
I have been trying to show my nephew a different side to the cosumerism of Christmas, last fortnight we spent a Saturday morning decorating biscuits to give to his dad as a gift. An eye opener for a kid reared on every item being bought from a shop with transformers or ben 10 badges on it.
Ok Scotty rocks, you got me with that story about the salvation army and the doll, dang you foriegners
Grats on the two year mark, and your growth and depth, it's yours and nobody can take it away, ha I'd like to see them try
I understand about not getting into a relationship while you have young children, heck my youngest is 20 and I still want to keep myself available to my children, as I will allways be thier father
They are all independent work and live apart but, daddy still worries about them
Being married more of my 54 years than single, and how things worked out, there is no romance left anyway lol
Rather have friends and a sense of humor anyways,no drama, nothing to prove, and for Gods sake, no more KISA activities
Still miss having a passion though, but just not willing or able to put myself out there, not for a person, and that's just ok with me
One day at a time, and having a good expectation, based in reality
Scotty, I have never posted to you, but I want to tell you that I read your thread and am awed by your strength and decency. You are thinking very clearly about how to best live your life well for the sake of your boys and your own conscience.
It's marvelous and moving that your church recognizes this.
Scotland, your strength, dignity and courage are an inspiration to me, at a time where I really need it. I wish you and your boys a wonderful Christmas.
Happy Birthday Scotty!! Never have posted to you before but wanted to now.
It took me a while (okay, a LONG while..LOL) to read about your "adventure", and you have earned my upmost respect for your strength through all of this. You are obviously one incredible creature of God and I wish you all the happiness you truly deserve. It WILL come your way one day soon.
Someday, someone will hit the jackpot with you as the prize! I truly envy this man.
Happy Birthday Scotty!! Never have posted to you before but wanted to now.
It took me a while (okay, a LONG while..LOL) to read about your "adventure", and you have earned my upmost respect for your strength through all of this. You are obviously one incredible creature of God and I wish you all the happiness you truly deserve. It WILL come your way one day soon.
Someday, someone will hit the jackpot with you as the prize! I truly envy this man.
Happy Bday again, and Happy Holidays as well!
Thank you. And thanx for stopping in. I am glad you enjoyed my story. It's a work in progress.
Praise God for the wonderful, generous soul who eased my friend's burden! I love how you careful word your reasons for staying in plan B to help pay forward what you have gotten from MB. May God continue to protect you and bless you in the coming New Year.
Praise God for the wonderful, generous soul who eased my friend's burden! I love how you careful word your reasons for staying in plan B to help pay forward what you have gotten from MB. May God continue to protect you and bless you in the coming New Year.
You don't have to defend your decisions to anyone but yourself. You continue to lead and do the next right things for you and your family and that is all that really matters.
Wish you the best today and through the Holidays. Rock on.
You don't have to defend your decisions to anyone but yourself. You continue to lead and do the next right things for you and your family and that is all that really matters.
Wish you the best today and through the Holidays. Rock on.
I guess I should start it with saying that I have learned a lot about myself in the past few weeks. How? Well, I learned how I find myself attracted to men. I realized how a man is able to reel me in.
So, I work in retail. Saying such, there are male and female co-workers, as well as customers that I deal with on a regular basis. They vary in age. There are people who are single, married, etc. There are quite a few employees. Well, I have always had my boundaries up pretty high(higher once I found MB actually). I don't communicate with any male co-workers outside of work. I don't go on lunches or breaks with any. There is no intimate conversations, etc.
I have always been able to tell which men had weak boundaries at work(I didn't know what it was called then, but they would give me the creeps, so I would instinctively shy away from ANY interactions with them unless absolutely necessary and as short as possible). There wasn't any overt signals, but some innuendos, etc. I made it clear that I was not wiling to participate in such activities with anyone. Whenever there were overt signs(like the customer that wouldn't leave me alone, and kept asking for my number, after repeated NO's), I would make it perfectly clear that that was NOT what I wanted.
Some weeks ago(I can't remember how long ago exactly), there was an incident. I had noticed a young man(in his 20's) watching me in the break room. He wouldn't interact with me, but he would always place himself in a seat where he could see me at all times. It was obvious that he was listening to things I would say to others(I am not quiet by any means, and often find myself getting the attention of those around me). I sort of equate myself to old time storytellers in pubs. I am entertaining. I have been told that before.
Anyways, I needed the aid of this young man. While he was helping me, he said, "I find your stories very interesting and I am always listening to what you have to say." To that, I gave a nervous laugh, and he said, "And your laugh is very distinctive, I can tell it's you anywhere." I didn't quite know how to respond and answered with, "I have been told that before."
Now, this is the ONLY direct communications that we have had with each other. After this however, I noticed that he was still watching me from afar, and would place himself in my line of sight even out of the break room. At first, I was uncomfortable with the attention. And then, something happened. I began to like the attention. I spoke of it to some of my friends, and only a couple of them understood why it bothered me so much. A couple of them even encouraged my continued acceptance of it. I didn't like that advice.
I realized a couple of weeks ago that this is how EVERY boyfriend has "courted" me. They are usually shy and watch me from afar before they get the courage to approach me. THIS young man is the most dangerous person in my world to me right now.
Then, a few days ago, I woke up with a song running in my head, it was, Florence and the Machine-Shake it out(even weirder is that while I was typing this, this song came on the radio) and the part of the song that says, "And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back So shake him off." That night, Mortarman started posting. And his posts effected me in such a profound way.
I now pray for walls and doors. I have seen the wall, and I have decided to move away from it. Who knows when I will get a door, but I am CERTAIN it will lead me in the right direction.
I have plans that need to be enacted. The first one, I need to find a new job. I can avoid him as much as possible until then, and if he is in the break room while I am, I will leave. It's all I can do for now, but I will change my life, and it will be for the better.
This was so out of left field, and I was truly afraid that I was falling down that slippery slope into wayward-ville, and I didn't want to go there. I am glad to have MB to help me stay straight. I am CERTAIN that had I not worried about being held accountable for my actions by all of you, I would have jumped over that cliff with both feet. Thank you.
Now, back to my regular program, Plan B silence. The peace is nice.
So..........as you go around looking for doors and finding walls (I love that post too), you just decide who you want to be into the future. You transcend 'feelings' to make choices to get there.
Now, this is the ONLY direct communications that we have had with each other. After this however, I noticed that he was still watching me from afar, and would place himself in my line of sight even out of the break room. At first, I was uncomfortable with the attention. And then, something happened. I began to like the attention. I spoke of it to some of my friends, and only a couple of them understood why it bothered me so much. A couple of them even encouraged my continued acceptance of it. I didn't like that advice.
I realized a couple of weeks ago that this is how EVERY boyfriend has "courted" me. They are usually shy and watch me from afar before they get the courage to approach me. THIS young man is the most dangerous person in my world to me right now.
Then, a few days ago, I woke up with a song running in my head, it was, Florence and the Machine-Shake it out(even weirder is that while I was typing this, this song came on the radio) and the part of the song that says, "And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back So shake him off." That night, Mortarman started posting. And his posts effected me in such a profound way.
I now pray for walls and doors. I have seen the wall, and I have decided to move away from it. Who knows when I will get a door, but I am CERTAIN it will lead me in the right direction.
I have plans that need to be enacted. The first one, I need to find a new job. I can avoid him as much as possible until then, and if he is in the break room while I am, I will leave. It's all I can do for now, but I will change my life, and it will be for the better.
This was so out of left field, and I was truly afraid that I was falling down that slippery slope into wayward-ville, and I didn't want to go there. I am glad to have MB to help me stay straight. I am CERTAIN that had I not worried about being held accountable for my actions by all of you, I would have jumped over that cliff with both feet. Thank you.
Now, back to my regular program, Plan B silence. The peace is nice.
I am confused. You are going to find a new job because you like the attention of a man? That...that astounds me.
Actually SW, I am going to find a new job because I already was unhappy in the one I currently have.
Letting myself almost become a wayward is what is giving me an extra push to find one sooner rather than later.
I was starting to look for his truck in the parking lot. I would get the rush when I saw it, when I saw him. I was becoming a WAYWARD, as I am most certainly still married. I was starting to make excuses as to why it was "harmless" and THAT is what scares me. I can't control other people's actions, but I can most certainly control how I react to them, and what I DO to protect myself from becoming a wayward myself.
Actually SW, I am going to find a new job because I already was unhappy in the one I currently have.
Letting myself almost become a wayward is what is giving me an extra push to find one sooner rather than later.
I was starting to look for his truck in the parking lot. I would get the rush when I saw it, when I saw him. I was becoming a WAYWARD, as I am most certainly still married. I was starting to make excuses as to why it was "harmless" and THAT is what scares me. I can't control other people's actions, but I can most certainly control how I react to them, and what I DO to protect myself from becoming a wayward myself.
Oh, I agree you are still married and therefore need to shut down those feelings pronto...seems like you have done a fine job of that. I just couldn't fathom changing jobs because you like the attention of a man..
Makes more sense that you were already looking for/wanting another job.
Scotland, you are a brave and inspirational lady. For recognising, then challenging your own behaviour. And for taking action by looking for a mature, healthy and definitive solution.
I am glad I could clear that up for ya SW. Sometimes, I have already plotted everything out in my head, and I neglect to give all of the needed information for others to understand.
Maryse, thank you. It's part of what being in Plan B is all about. I'm making myself into the person I WANT to become. It's not always easy, and when it is right, it is even harder to do.
Ya' know, it never fails. I write an update, and then shortly after(like that day or the next) something happens that I want to tell you guys.
So, last Saturday, it was my DS9's Bday. It was supposed to be Bampot's weekend to have the boys, so I sent a message through my IM, in early December saying that they wouldn't be available. I did this with my birthday too, and received no response, so when I received no response from my IM, I assumed that it was the same as my birthday.
On Friday night, the boys wanted to stay up late watching Robin Hood on Netflix(it's REALLY good, it's the BBC Tv show from 2007). Then, as per DS9's wished, they wanted a sleepover in my room. I said, "Sure." We slept in later than usual.
At pick-up time, Bampot showed up. He began knocking on the door. I told the boys to stay upstairs, in their room, and I stayed in my room. Bampot didn't leave for over an hour. He knocked on the front door. He knocked on the side window. He knocked on the backdoor. He even threw snowballs at the boys' window. The phone is downstairs, but we could hear is ringing, and ringing. He actually drove away twice, but came back.
I didn't know what to do. I just stayed in my room watching TV, while the boys played video games in theirs.
After Bampot left, I came downstairs. He left 3 messages on the answering machine(which I DELETED without listening to), and he had called 26 times(I did count it, although I probably shouldn't have, but I wanted to document it).
A couple of hours later, DS11 and I were downstairs. Bampot called again, and DS11 talked to him. Apparently, Bampot had feared something had happened to the boys, and that's why he called so many times.
I am not certain that the IM passed along the message about the boys being unavailable, or if Bampot was just being stubborn about it. It really isn't much of a concern for me either way. I just thought I would put it here, as a way to keep my thread as up to date as possible.
Did you contact the IM to find out what happened? Hopefully they did pass the message along. I can only imagine how you must have been feeling while he was knocking, calling and throwing snowballs at the window.
Did you contact the IM to find out what happened? Hopefully they did pass the message along. I can only imagine how you must have been feeling while he was knocking, calling and throwing snowballs at the window.
I am torn, because I don't want to know if he just chose to be stubborn, I think it is better this way.
There shouldn't be anymore changes for a long while, so I weighed my knowing with not, and decided this was better for my personal recovery. Thanx for making me think about it though.
Wow... You are AMAZING! I read through the first 60+ pages of your journey this morning and I am (almost) speechless. By the time you got to your birthday in '09 I had tears rolling down my face. I just wanted to give you a huge hug.
In some ways I don't think I have much right to comment on other people's posts who have clearly had their lives turned upside down by their WS. My heart just went out to you and your boys. I wanted to tell you that, and also that you have my respect and admiration... You have amazing strength!
He threw SNOW BALLS at the boys' windows?!?!?!? Um, maturity seems to be lacking....
And did he miss the part about you going DARK?!? Hello, why don't you call the IM if you're worried to check and see if something had happened!!!! WW's.... sigh...
Anyways, you have got some awesome boys there! And happy belated birthday Scotty's DS9!
Indie, I'm not asking my IM. I don't really want to know.
CD, nice to see ya hun. I hope everything's going well with you and yours.
Yea, I pretty much said that if he wanted to make sure we were safe, he could have called my mom. She lives 12 blocks away and the phone number is the same as when I lived there, and it's in the phone book. It was probably just a typical wayward reaction to not having things the way he expected. eh whatever.
Yeppers. It feels so right this way. I think that's one reason I get frustrated with people who won't enter Plan B, I KNOW how much better their lives could be without the drama.
Yeppers. It feels so right this way. I think that's one reason I get frustrated with people who won't enter Plan B, I KNOW how much better their lives could be without the drama.
I know, I know....the time will come. I haven't met Dr Harley's timeline yet.
Indie, I'm not asking my IM. I don't really want to know.
CD, nice to see ya hun. I hope everything's going well with you and yours.
Yea, I pretty much said that if he wanted to make sure we were safe, he could have called my mom. She lives 12 blocks away and the phone number is the same as when I lived there, and it's in the phone book. It was probably just a typical wayward reaction to not having things the way he expected. eh whatever.
I'm kinda over it now.
Ahhahahhahaha! just when I think Ive got Plan B all wrapped up in my philosophy the master shows us all how it is done!
Ahhahahhahaha! just when I think Ive got Plan B all wrapped up in my philosophy the master shows us all how it is done!
It's all about self-preservation. The pros vs. the cons. I don't actually NEED to know, so why bother?
My initial thoughts WERE to ask the IM. That was my emotional reaction to it. When I thought about it logically(and in the middle of my answering GJM's post actually, see how even Newb's can help?), and with my Plan B hat on, I decided that it was better not getting dragged into the drama.
My life, day to day, is actually quite peaceful. It's funny that. I can't actually remember when my life wasn't filled with drama. Most likely Pre-A, but with history re-write, I can also pick out drama mama moments as well.
One thing I can say for certain is that I can tell which people in my life live lives FULL of drama, because when I am in contact with them, I get sucked in, and I don't like the way it makes me feel. Plan B has helped me recognize it, and pull away as much as I can from these types of people. See, Plan B helps in ALL facets of your life.
Now, to those of you, like GJM, who are fighting to Plan A fight, know that there is peace in Plan B, but there are also moments when you will look back on your Plan A and wish you could have done more, or something differently. Plan A your butts off so when these doubts creep in(as they will), we'll be able to point you to your threads and SHOW you how well you did. If you haven't done well enough yet, there's still time.
One thing I can say for certain is that I can tell which people in my life live lives FULL of drama, because when I am in contact with them, I get sucked in, and I don't like the way it makes me feel. Plan B has helped me recognize it, and pull away as much as I can from these types of people. See, Plan B helps in ALL facets of your life.
Scotty, I've never said this before to you personally (well on your thread anyway), but so sorry for what you've been through and the measures you're taking to protect yourself. I know I said something similar on G's thread, but just sayin'.
Well I am gearing up for Plan B, but I'm not ready just yet. I'll try not to be offended at being called a newb. Lol!
No offense intended. Especially now that you have stated you originally registered in 01. I was just trying to encourage others, who may think that they don't have anything valuable to add, to go ahead and try. Believe me, if it's wrong, a vet will jump all over you, and you'll learn from it.
TigerWes, Thank you. Do you have a story? I would love to be able to read a thread about your journey.
Scotty, no, I don't have a thread. My journey to this place began as a personal quest to make myself a better person, a better man, and a better potential husband. Then the old boy started digesting all the incredible info on this site and was blown away. I'm not a bad guy...I just didn't know!
Thanks to this website, and people like you and all the others, I have an awareness now that I didn't possess before...sadly enough. Ohhhh, to only go back in time.
I don't want to waste board resources by posting my "story", but in the next couple of days I may work up a brief synopsis for your personal perusal.
But I truly am thankful for Dr. Harley, the MB concepts and for everyone's insight, knowledge, and perspectives on the SAA board.
Now, why am I still here? Good question!
I don't know the true answer to that. Do I want to educate people in my own little way to NOT make the same mistakes I did? Perhaps.
Does it make me feel good reading all these train wreck stories that bring back so much pain that I somewhat buried years ago? Definitely not.
But something draws me here...every damned day. When I figure out what it is, I'll let you know.
Because there are some great people here TW! People taking a stand against adultery and divorce. We are family oriented with great values. And the repentant waywards that turn themselves around become better people also. I may never leave this site. I'm on it all day every day.
Because there are some great people here TW! People taking a stand against adultery and divorce. We are family oriented with great values. And the repentant waywards that turn themselves around become better people also. I may never leave this site. I'm on it all day every day.
G, I am constantly amazed at the collective wisdom that is willingly dispensed on this board. All the people that recovered, or even not recovered, still come back. It's mind boggling...but then again, it's not.
I guess you're right. No, check that..you are definitely right. When you find a place that espouses the same morals and values that you yourself embrace, it's kind of hard to just walk away from that.
I'm (like you) pretty sure I'll be around for a while as well
Yes, it is true that my WH and OW are still together. I don't know when the actual A began. I had an initial DDay about an EA in Nov 07, when I received an anonymous phone call from my a co-worker of my WH and OW. I was gaslighted. I got the "We're just friends" speech. I do firmly believe that the PA started some time AFTER this initial DDay.
I had a very rough 2 years until I found MB and began posting here. I committed a HORRENDOUS amount of LBs. I went through a lot of emotional damage. I almost became convinced that it was MY insecurities, and MY fault that my marriage was going down the crapper. Now, I KNOW different.
As I entered Plan B, I had some real hope that my WH would be like the majority, and end his affair more quickly. He is a stubborn stubborn man. He is also a man who ignores what bothers him in hopes that it goes away. I do not know where my story will lead me, and what will become of my marriage in the end, but I do KNOW that I did EVERYTHING that I could possibly do.
I still get doubts creeping in at times. Especially as I help others through Plan A and Plan B. I feel like I could have done something differently, or better, but that is not good for me, and more recovery, so I talk my doubts away. Sometimes, it helps me to re-read my thread. I remember the pain while reading those words, because I am so far removed from it now. I have real joy in my life.
I do have a date, where if my WH doesn't file for a D, I will, but I am unwilling to share it, in case I want to do it before that date. I figure that as long as things are progressing for me, and I am moving towards having a completely healed heart, I am doing what is right for me.
Do not ever worry about asking me a question, I find that many times, answering these very questions help me in so many ways. I thank you.
This morning, this is my status on FB. �When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.� ― Mahatma Gandhi
I thought it might be helpful to some posters in despair.
I have been having some low thoughts and feelings. Sometimes, it's quite lonely in Plan B. I think my Taker is rearing its ugly head. Let's see if I can fix that. I put nail polish on my finger nails yesterday, because they had been bare for MONTHS. Hmmmmm, what else should I do? Any suggestions?
what color? I think it's time to read a new book, explore something new, drive a different way, so something you don't normally do or how you do it....... Open your mind up to new and exciting possibilities......
Scotland what part of ontario? I am in the london area............ jessi
When I encounter difficult emotional, physical, mental & spiritual difficulties, I have found that ministering to others helps me. My favorite "ministry" is preparing dinner for a family that is struggling in some way... It is amazing how God places people in my heart who need to receive a blessing from Him "through" me. By doing this, I also receive a blessing from God. It helps me... I have also been given the opportunity to do other things, such as cleaning someone's house, doing someone's laundry, mowing people's lawns, picking up children, taking people to a doctor appointment, washing someone's car... The list goes on and on... I have always been on the receiving end of God's blessings when I take my mind off of "me" and seek ways to help "others"...
I have never posted to you but I have followed your story from the beginning and have always felt that your situation was closer to mine than many others I have read here and hence my interest.
Quote
I don't know when the actual A began
Nor do I and WH actually refused to admit the A or say anything about it so I went to plan B back in 2004 (26th december) and have barely had contact with him since, partly due to the fact that since my DDs were young adults already, there was no need.
Since you posted the link to an answer Dr. H gave to an e mail question I asked, I have felt that you were also in the same mindset I was and I considered writing to you.
I am not divorced, WH still lives with OW and they have a 1 year old child so in that sense nothing has changed.
I am normally happy and lead a full life, I count the minutes of the day and the night because I am normally enjoying them so much and yet, as I told Dr. H a couple of times, I can�t get WH out of my mind for long.
Mostly I feel sadness that he has become this idiot. My main problem is that I cannot see any positive outcome: I feel so emotionally damaged that I can�t imagine even trying recovery nor being any good as a partner to another person while WH lives.
for him the options I see are bad to worse and that will never make me feel better.
So in a sense I am stuck and I�ve asked Dr. H and he has kindly responded that as a psychologist there is nothing he can do for that situation and that all he can advise me is to pray.
Luckily and mainly thanks to this situation my faith grows every day and I pray that God�s will be done: if He allows WH to be in my mind it must be for a purpose and if not I beg him to let me let go. I do not see WH, nor hear him, nor ask about him. Unfortunately one of my daughters is very like him and she�s the one who lives with me so I realize that is a trigger but I can�t ask her to leave for that reason specially when she�s the one who has chosen to have minimum contact with WH and is the most disapproving of all he does.
My point in posting to you is to tell you that from my experience (and I�ve read others here) some situations don�t always end after 2 years, some take longer, and to tell you that you have at least 1 MB fan who understands a little of what you are going through when you defend your position on continuing in plan B.
It�s not the greatest life but at least I can live with myself in it.
Thanx for the replies everyone. It's nice to know that all of you are out here.
Jessi, my nail colour is aquamarine. I look at it and it makes me smile, so that's why I decided to put it on. I live in Niagara Falls. We're pretty much neighbours then, eh? I didn't even realize you were Canadian. It's nice to have a fellow Canuck here. Just don't let ML find out, she'll start asking how all us foreigners got in here.
Love, Thank you for the ideas. I will see what I can come up with.
CC, thank you. It's nice to hear from you.
Estrela, I will be traveling to Disney in Sept, my sister is paying for the boys and I to go, so that will be nice. 9 days away.
I think what it comes down to is that there is a lot going on right now. There is a health issue that I am dealing with(trying to figure out something that has been plaguing me since September). I had to have chest xrays, an EKG, an ECG, and a heart monitor for 2 weeks. I will also be going to a lung and allergy specialist to see if it is that. I will admit that I am more afraid of this issue then I have been allowing those around me to see. It also made me hate that I don't have someone who would care about it, other than my children, and I'm not laying that at their feet. I don't want to worry them about things that may not be, but I worry about those things, and I have no one to share that with. In those times, I get VERY angry with Bampot.
Also, finances are in the crapper something good right now. I try not to dwell on how bad things are, and live day to day with it, but it becomes overwhelming sometimes. And again, I get angry that I have no one to share the burden with.
Bampot was my rock. He always knew how to make me feel better. I could tell him anything. He knew me more than anyone else ever did. I trusted him, and when he betrayed me, and left me, he took that away from me. It's that void that is still there that is bugging me. And it doesn't help when people keep trying to convince me to find someone else. Especially when sometimes, my Taker agrees with them. If not for this site, I don't doubt that I would be dating someone else right now, to the detriment of my own being. I'm taking the higher road, it's just a lot more difficult.
There are also times that I look back on my marriage, and relationship with Bampot. 20 years ago, last Monday, we started dating. That is probably what this is all about, only it has come a few days later than I expected. I look back now and I see how much he cared for me. I see how much he loved me. How he did certain things, out of that love, and I didn't appreciate it. I feel guilty over that sometimes. And more often than not, I miss those things. I miss having someone care for me in that way.
Then, people tell me to just get over it and move on already, and I am tired of fighting with them. Can't they just let me be? I don't need to be reminded that Bampot has been gone for more than 2 years and that there is a snowball's chance in hell that he will return. I don't. And I'm not waiting for him to return. I'm trying to live my life for me.
I'm not ready to be divorced. I'm not ready to put that label on myself, and I'm not ready to deal with the emotional damage, yet. I will be. I have placed my time limit. And it's not like I would start dating now anyways, whether I was divorced or not, so why do I need to rush?
I truly think that I am grieving my marriage again. I am grieving the loss of the man who Bampot once was. I am also pretty dern angry at him for giving that to someone else, after vowing to give it only to me for life.
At least through all of this, my self esteem, and self confidence has soared. I actually like who I am becoming. I like where I am headed, and that is the amazing power of Plan B. Why would I want to give that up? Why should I give up the protection that it affords me?
The other day, I did have an errant thought about being able to directly communicate with Bampot. I was almost trying to convince myself that it was okay. Don't worry, it was a fleeting thought, that I squashed like a bug. Come on, Scotty. Stay behind the Plan B curtain, it's nice and dark back here.
So, I leave you all with this knowledge. I'm still here, fighting the good fight, and doing the right things. I'll get through this all, because it's what I must do. I have no other choice, because I am going to have a wonderful life, whether I have anyone else to share it with, or not. Just another step in my personal recovery, and Plan B.
I just thought about what my trigger was. How silly of me to have forgotten. My FIL emailed me last weekend. His name is the same as Bampot's so at first, when I saw the name, I thought it was Bampot. I think that was the beginning of my downward spiral. Hopefully, now, this represents my up swing.
I just took on a big project that is distracting me from things...early spring cleaning! Got a book on organization that takes you week by week through everything, your finances, car, every room of the house. Going to try to power through it over the next month or so...
I am a neat freak and having everything shiny & clean makes me VERY happy, but it's almost impossible with two artsy messy kids. Hopefully getting rid of some of this clutter and getting more organized will help make things easy to maintain...
Sorry to hear about your health issue. Will keep you in my thoughts and please keep us updated! {{{{Scotty}}}}
Thanx SusieQ, I have been thinking about the clutter in the house too. I'm going to start on that soon. I think that is another problem, and I know the solution. Things are looking up already. Thank you everyone.
We are practically neighbours, both my sons have attended Brock University. I have been down in that area quite a bit in the last 7 years, the youngest is in his 5th year now.......
I think you might be right about the trigger and the name, just brush yourself off and start again.........
Hey we Canadian can weather any storm that comes our way, My husband had his affair in 2009 while I was on a chemo drug.........I don't have cancer I have an auto immume problem it has left me with no hair and many aliments, when you don't have a working immume system a lot of things go wrong I weathered all that and still do right now I am in the middle of a scare as well.......but my point is we all do what we have to and I also did most of this alone at the time while my husband looked after his OW.
I leaned on friends when I needed to and the rest of the time I kept a stiff upper lip......the next day always seemed a little better........ I look at the health complications as a way to fix something that is broken, if we didn't know we couldn't take care of it ......I feel lucky sometimes that I knew and have choices.........
I think when you are ready you will know and feel it until then be a great mom and woman .
Wow! Scotty... H and I lived in NE Ohio for 8 years... We loved driving to NF ~ Didn't matter what time of the year! It is the most incredible natural wonder I have ever seen ~ Well, except for the southern rim of the Grand Canyon! We always stayed at the Ramada Inn in the Minolta Tower in a room that faces Horseshoe Falls... If you EVER want to experience a special retreat, either by yourself or with friends, I would HIGHLY recommend making a reservation there! I am praying for you...
I just thought about what my trigger was. How silly of me to have forgotten. My FIL emailed me last weekend. His name is the same as Bampot's so at first, when I saw the name, I thought it was Bampot. I think that was the beginning of my downward spiral. Hopefully, now, this represents my up swing.
Isn't it amazing how our minds don't let us see the obvious right away? Praying for you my dear, sweet, beautiful friend. Praying for your mental, spiritual and physical health.
Bampot was my rock. He always knew how to make me feel better. I could tell him anything. He knew me more than anyone else ever did. I trusted him, and when he betrayed me, and left me, he took that away from me. It's that void that is still there that is bugging me. And it doesn't help when people keep trying to convince me to find someone else. Especially when sometimes, my Taker agrees with them. If not for this site, I don't doubt that I would be dating someone else right now, to the detriment of my own being. I'm taking the higher road, it's just a lot more difficult.
There are also times that I look back on my marriage, and relationship with Bampot. 20 years ago, last Monday, we started dating. That is probably what this is all about, only it has come a few days later than I expected. I look back now and I see how much he cared for me. I see how much he loved me. How he did certain things, out of that love, and I didn't appreciate it. I feel guilty over that sometimes. And more often than not, I miss those things. I miss having someone care for me in that way.
Ya know Scotty, you certainly have a way with words and articulating exactly what I sometimes think. I really hope you keep journalling and writing because the emotion in your words echoes.
You know that a lot of us are listening, and not only do we understand, but your words help us. Thank you.
I'm excited for you going to Disneyland!!! Your boys are gonna love it.
Hugs to you Scotty, and thanks for sharing your journey as well as advising me on mine.
Indie, I missed your post until now. WE must have cross posted. Are you really wearing Aquamarine? Are you quite certain that we weren't separated at birth?
Love, Thank you for the reminder. I may need to visit the Falls a bit more now that the weather is improving.
Faith, as always, thank you for the support. It means a great deal to me.
Caracal, that is a part of the reason that I DO write, and why I encourage others to post about their journeys as well. You never know what is going to affect someone else. I gain A LOT of help from reading here, and it keeps me on my path.
I found it interesting that DS9 has been speaking about Bampot more often lately too. A bit ago, DS9 was in my bed(our morning routine), and he started to cry. I asked him what was wrong and he said, "I don't want you to get a divorce. I want Daddy to come home." I didn't know what to say, I just hugged him. Then, last night, we were watching TV, and out of the blue he said, "How it's Made, Daddy and I used to watch that show together. I wish Daddy was here so I could watch that show with him." I told him that we can watch the show together, but he said "No. It's not the same without Daddy." Well, that's heartbreaking. DS11, he tells me that he doesn't answer the phone anymore when Bampot calls because after they hang up, he misses him more.
After posting here, the next morning, I awoke at 630am with "Good Life" by One Republic running through my head. I think I agree.
Also, my workplace is starting an activity committee. We are going to do things like Book Club, Cooking exchanges, Basketball, Volleyball, Dodgeball, etc. I wasn't going to go, but I think I will. I need to get out there, especially when my kiddos are with Bampot. Should be a lot of fun.
Again, thank you ALL. I could never have done it without all of you.
If not for this site, I don't doubt that I would be dating someone else right now, to the detriment of my own being....I miss having someone care for me in that way...Then, people tell me to just get over it...Can't they just let me be?...I'm not ready to be divorced.
In one of the great Meg Ryan movies (Shut up! I'm NOT having a gender-identity crisis!) she says something to the effect of, "No, there's no one else, But there's the POSSIBILITY of someone else." (Allright! Get the tissues!)
Anyway the point (sniff!) I was trying to make is that there is a huge difference in mindset that I believe you might be approaching, Scotty. Bampot is, or at least should be, dead and gone to you. (I'm sorry your DS9 misses him, though!) But he's not - because there is no "Scotty" right now independent of the "Mrs. Bampot". I'm not urging you to move forward on your ultimate dissolution decision, but just suggesting that that is the proximate cause of your recent unease.
Let me posit one more thing for your consideration. Moving ahead with the seemingly inevitable step of officially removing BP from your life is NOT only about you. Somewhere, there's a man, maybe even that rare breed of Canuck who knows to remove his skates before entering the kitchen, who is possibly fated to find HIS future in Scotty. It would be convenient if she were open to meeting him.
I was sure by now God You would have reached down And wiped our tears away Stepped in and saved the day But once again, I say "Amen", and it's still raining
As the thunder rolls I barely hear Your whisper through the rain "I'm with you" And as Your mercy falls I raise my hands and praise the God who gives And takes away
And I'll praise You in this storm And I will lift my hands For You are who You are No matter where I am And every tear I've cried You hold in Your hand You never left my side And though my heart is torn I will praise You in this storm
I remember when I stumbled in the wind You heard my cry to you And you raised me up again My strength is almost gone How can I carry on If I can't find You
But as the thunder rolls I barely hear You whisper through the rain "I'm with you" And as Your mercy falls I raise my hands and praise the God who gives And takes away
I lift my eyes unto the hills Where does my help come from? My help comes from the Lord The Maker of Heaven and Earth
_____________________________
I think this song is about YOU Scotti ( I also think of this song when my Mom was dying of pancreatic cancer)
NG, point well taken, and will be pondered. I think you are sorta right, only it's not about Bampot necessarily as it is that I am not ready to not be a "Mrs". I married for LIFE, and i feel like I sorta got robbed. KWIM?
And as far as the other cool Canuck who may be out there waiting for me, unfortunately, he's gonna get pretty cold out there, because I would be following Dr H's advice about not dating until my children are grown, and outta the house. That's a little over 9 years, so I got nothing but time(ARGH).
I think a lot of my problem too is that I don't have a career, but I did feel like a success in the fact that I was a wife and mother. Now, I have lost the wife part, so I am kinda a failure. I still get to be a great mother, but it doesn't seem like enough for me right now.
Hmmmmm, those muppets are working overtime tonight, thank NG.
Swan, thank you for that. It's lovely, and very fitting.
I had a SPECTACULAR customer today at work. I actually got to a point where I almost walked out on my job. I have hit my head on this wall so much that I have a goose egg on my forehead. I get it, I NEED A NEW JOB. Strike that. I need a fulfilling CAREER. Myabe this will help me feel like more of a success again.
Think about all the good, clear advice you give to all of us here. You are definitely a success!!!
I understand the job vs. career thing, though. I was also holding back at work so I could be more available at home. Now I feel I can push more at work, it helps take my mind off things and it might help me get a better position (will sure need the $).
So happy you will be going to Disney. I went last year with the kids (our first time) and it was really magical!
Hey, guess what Estrela. I went before work to get my sparkly nail polish, and they were on sale so I bought 3. I'm an over achiever. HAHAHAHA
Okay, so enough pity party. Feelings follow actions. I'm gonna pick myself up and MOVE. Thanks again all of you. NG, I want to thank you for that extra kick, it was surely needed.
You know every time he posts NG makes some reference to Canada. I think hes jealous, in fact I bet hes been to the consulate in New York to ask about becoming a citizen.
Scotty can I ask why you are supposed to wait 9 years to date? Forgive me, its out of line but wouldn't that be giving up a lot of prime time?
Also Scotty I never realized, you really are just down the road from me, and Jessi sounds like she could be around the corner..too funny.
DrH has suggested to BW's that they wait to date until their children are grown(after a D of course). It is about the types of men that would be out there in this age range, and about the type of relationship that would come from dating while the kids are still young. There are a TONNE of complications with blending families. He mentioned it on his radio show a while back. I don't remember when, but I remember that I was quite shocked by it. That's why I remember it. Also, he said something to the effect that good men don't raise another man's children. That struck me too.
And Reynold's, I bet NG knows all of the words to our National Anthem too.
DrH has suggested to BW's that they wait to date until their children are grown(after a D of course). It is about the types of men that would be out there in this age range, and about the type of relationship that would come from dating while the kids are still young. There are a TONNE of complications with blending families. He mentioned it on his radio show a while back. I don't remember when, but I remember that I was quite shocked by it. That's why I remember it. Also, he said something to the effect that good men don't raise another man's children. That struck me too.
And Reynold's, I bet NG knows all of the words to our National Anthem too.
I can't agree with all of this stuff highlighted Scotty as a "rule", only suggestions The part about a good man doesn't raise someone elses children must have been misunderstood or taken out of context. There are plenty of loving Fathers out there who raise someone elses children, after all, are they not Gods children?
And for that matter, so are you, and a loving father does not want you to be alone, if the right situation presented itself.
I know, it would be wrong to look for it, even desperate, but being open to it is another thing. There is a Jack for every Jill, but the dating scene? PLU_EEZE!. It will have to be someone I could laugh with, and be a friend first, and auditioning was never my thing. I doubt it was yours either.
Plus a date is supposed to be fun, and it can be two people treating each other with respect, while having that fun.
Just be open to men who are decent, and do not have issues that they haven't worked out yet. You're smart, have a great sense of humor, and a good head on your shoulders. Last but not least you have a moral code you live by, which makes you unique to most. That code has made you who you are, has shown you what others have become, and has guided you though a lot.
Any man would be stupid not to recognize it, and you aren't looking for a stupid friend now are you? Just be ready for the best to come along, and accept nothing but the best, expect it..
Until then, just keep being Scotty, cuz Scotty rocks
I can't agree with all of this stuff highlighted Scotty as a "rule", only suggestions The part about a good man doesn't raise someone elses children must have been misunderstood or taken out of context.
Here's the radio show that Scotty is referencing, starts about 0:55 into the segment. I bookmarked it because it shocked me too! I don't know that I am going to follow this advice entirely but it has given me a lot to think about...
Was the DesperateM's (JenniferVoyager) radio program? That has been on my mind a lot because I have young children and I want to be married.
If you read HNHN for Parents Dr. Harley speaks clearly about why this becomes a problem.
1) Women are nurturers and men are disciplinarians. So a single mom will often lack discipline with her children because she would rather love them.
When the step-father comes into the home he then becomes the disciplinarian by his nature. The issue is a step-father disciplinarian dynamic doesn't work that way in a blended family. The mother has to remain the disciplinarian. Often the case the man will not discipline his own children due to guilt and trying to love them because he doesn't see them all the time. It turns into a horrible mess because his children run free and the wife's children are strictly disciplined by him.
Dr. Harley says it is difficult to overcome this dynamic due to our inherent nature of roles as mother and father. The only way to make it a success is to have POJA in full force on all decisions concerning the children (all children involved).
In my situation I will probably meet a BH as my next husband. Someone that understands the dynamics of adultery and the outcomes that come about with it. The BH could be a really great guy dealt a horrible blow by his WW. I think the sensitivity in surviving adultery could make the new marriage better than ever, especially if both are on board with the 10 Basic Concepts to marriage.
I believe good men can raise others children. It may take some work and a great understanding of POJA.
I can't agree with all of this stuff highlighted Scotty as a "rule", only suggestions The part about a good man doesn't raise someone elses children must have been misunderstood or taken out of context.
Here's the radio show that Scotty is referencing, starts about 0:55 into the segment. I bookmarked it because it shocked me too! I don't know that I am going to follow this advice entirely but it has given me a lot to think about...
I don't think Dr. Harley was saying "There are no good men raising someone else's children." I think he was saying "I strongly suggest waiting to remarry, because the odds are tremendously against you."
My father was happy to become stepfather to my stepsiblings. There are plenty of exceptions; exceptions do not mean that a person should focus on the exceptions and be encouraged to take their chances.
Plenty of people survive Russian roulette, and plenty of people smoke like a smokestack and live to be 90 or 100. There are exceptions to every generalization. That does not mean that playing Russian roulette or smoking like a smokestack is a good idea.
I will most likely follow DrH's suggestions on not dating while my children are young. I have been following his advice so far, and it hasn't steered me wrong.
I was thinking more about what must be going on over here. I know that a lot of it has to do with the life struggles I am experiencing right now, and having no one to share the burden(isn't that a nice reason for me to want someone? ROLLING EYES).
I have had a couple of triggers, and that has also helped.
What I think is ultimately happening is that I am changing again. I am becoming someone complete and separate from Bampot. This is as it should be in Plan B, but I think that a part of me is still fighting to keep hold to the old me.
I have been living my life separate from Bampot, but it takes time, at least for me, to change. It took me years to become a wife, I needed time to undo that. That's why MB and PB are GREAT. I think this is really why it is necessary.
For right now, a small part of me still believes that Bampot is my best option, but I also know that he isn't my only one. THAT is something. At the beginning of this, I couldn't even think of ever being with someone else. Now I KNOW that I could be, and I could be happy. It's not going to be for a long while though.
In my situation I will probably meet a BH as my next husband. Someone that understands the dynamics of adultery and the outcomes that come about with it. The BH could be a really great guy dealt a horrible blow by his WW. I think the sensitivity in surviving adultery could make the new marriage better than ever, especially if both are on board with the 10 Basic Concepts to marriage.
I believe good men can raise others children. It may take some work and a great understanding of POJA.
This has worked well for me PI. My dh was a BH. He is a good man raising my child and trying like crazy to be a good father to his own 2 sons while only be able to see them 4 days a month (plus half of holidays but it still isn't much).
I agree that the odds are stacked against step-famiies, but much of life is that way. Doing the work needed to improve one's self is crucial. Looking honestly at one's part in the failed marriage is crucial. And looking brutally honestly at any potential mate is crucial.
I feel like I did that with my dh and I am very happy now.
I also feel there are some real benefits to having a good step parent vs. no step parent at all. I was raised by a single mom and while I believe she did a great job I definitely feel my brother and I could have benefited from having a good step father. She walled herself off so completely though that there was no chance of that---she feared she would get a bad husband and he would treat us poorly. Although I admire that, I don't think it is the only way to approach the situation.
Sorry Scotty, I don't want the yanks getting the wrong impression about us again...
Let me know if you still want to trade that nice moose roast you offered me..I talked it over with my wife (POJA eh) and we don't mind giving you the two beaver pelts for it.
I will canoe over to your log cabin tomorrow and drop them off OK?
Sorry Scotty, I don't want the yanks getting the wrong impression about us again...
Let me know if you still want to trade that nice moose roast you offered me..I talked it over with my wife (POJA eh) and we don't mind giving you the two beaver pelts for it.
I will canoe over to your log cabin tomorrow and drop them off OK?
LMAO
Don't we live so far north that we live in igloos and snowshoe everywhere? At least that's what some of those silly tourists we get up here in JULY think when they have skis strapped to the roof of their car.
I believe good men can raise others children. It may take some work and a great understanding of POJA.
I can agree with that,and the other stuff you mentioned, should be understood also before you start.
I think it's important, that you remember what your roles are, how they effect the children, and most of all, that it is not them you answer to in the question of loving them. You better love them, and understand your roles.
Bottom line, we are supposed to gain knowledge on how to love, and understand things from the childrens point of view. Thats what power is for, to serve.
Well, a very trusted MB adviser of mine suggested that I write out my thoughts here.
So, I think that my personal recovery is chugging right along at a rapid rate. While I can't say that I wouldn't consider marital recovery, ever, I can see how I would be quite close to that, and soon.
I have been living my life as if my WH wasn't coming home, because every morning, when I awoke, the other side of the bed was empty. I have been making a life that was just about myself and my children. At first, I couldn't look much further ahead than dinner that day, but now I am making plans for months in the future. That says something. The moment when you realize that you are making plans, and they have NOTHING to do with your WS. I mean, after 2+ years, Bampot is as far away from my life as HS friends I haven't seen in years.
I am thankful for this having happened this way. I am closer with my boys than I could ever have been had Bampot not committed adultery. The way that my life was before, I would have been too busy working, and I would have had little time or patience with them. Don't get me wrong, single motherhood is definitely not easy. It's always MY responsibility to ensure they are taken care of. It's also quite nice to be able to do things when and how I wish. That is part of the thinking about not wanting Bampot to come home. And that is part of the reason that Plan B ruins chances of MR the longer it goes on. The BS just won't want to share their life with their WS anymore. They are happy to be free to do what they want. I get that. Even the other day, when I was talking to a friend about a book sale, and she said, "My husband won't let me buy anymore books." It dawned on me. I don't need to ask anyone what I can spend my money on. My boys don't care what I spend my money on, as long as their needs are met. That actually felt nice.
I don't want this to seem like it's all peaches and cream. It definitely is NOT. Sometimes, I really crave having someone look out for me. Sometimes, I wish that I had someone to share things with. Sometimes, I am just plain old lonely. I'm just trying to share that there is another side of that. The side where the weight of adultery finally lifts off of you, at least enough that you can actually ENJOY your life again.
I'm no longer a victim, I am a survivor. It's nice.
Now, this doesn't mean that I am ready to get a divorce. The reality is, staying married, at the moment, has benefits that I can't change, yet. Financial. My children are still young, so I need to be here for them. They need direction, and I don't trust anyone else to help guide them down their paths. The way that I have set up our lives, they depend on me being around as often as I am, so getting back to school(unless online), or getting full time employment is out, for now. I'm making plans for the future, but that may be up to a year from now. I have waited this long, I can manage a bit more. Besides, we all know that any amount of planning doesn't prepare you for life has to throw at you.
On some good news. My DS11 is doing very well with his boxing training. He goes to the same boxing trainer as I do. I trust him with my son. He is also very good. My trainer was actually telling me today that he sees big things for DS11. DS9 is going to train with him as well, once he turns 10. They are dealing with everything pretty well. Their grades went up again, they get principal letters of effort, and perfect attendance awards. They still refuse to speak to Bampot on the phone because they say it makes them miss him too much when they hang up. Last night, DS9 came into my room crying because he missed out dog and cat that passed away a few years ago. I asked him what made him think of them, and he said, "I was thinking about how much I miss daddy when I started to think about them. I can't believe that Daddy lied to us that CAT ran away instead of telling us he died." When our cat died, it had been 6 months since our dog had died, so Bampot said that he wanted to tell the boys that he just ran away, so they wouldn't have to deal with it. I went along with it. Some time after Bampot left, I decided to fess up.
Well, I think that's about it for now. Personal recovery chugging along. Hitting my walls(especially in regards to my career), and looking for my doors. Looking forward to watching The Hunger Games movie. Of course, I am going to wait a few weeks before I go.
At first, I couldn't look much further ahead than dinner that day, but now I am making plans for months in the future. That says something. The moment when you realize that you are making plans, and they have NOTHING to do with your WS. I mean, after 2+ years, Bampot is as far away from my life as HS friends I haven't seen in years.
Oh, Scotty, thank-you for your updates. It means a lot to a fellow Plan B'er who is not the quickest on her PR that you can articulate my thoughts and inspire me to progress. I couldn't agree to ANYTHING more than a day in advance upon entering Plan B (hence why I am mad at myself for missing a trip to Sydney with family friends this weekend, lol). But I have come from that to booking time off today for a holiday overseas later this year! Hooray to me!!!
Originally Posted by Scotland
I'm just trying to share that there is another side of that. The side where the weight of adultery finally lifts off of you, at least enough that you can actually ENJOY your life again.
I'm no longer a victim, I am a survivor. It's nice.
I'm on my way to joining you (slowly but surely). I now look forward to reaching this point, and no longer feel I am betraying Gollum. Hats off to you Scotty, you (and other MB'ers) have played a big role in this and all credit where its due.
BTW, why are you not going to see the Hunger Games right away? It hasn't opened here yet anyways...
Caracal, thank you for your post. I feel like I was snailing along in my PR. I know that I was told it was a marathon and not a sprint, I just didn't know it was gonna be a marathon around the world.
I'm not going to see the movie in theaters right when it opens because I don't find it so fun to go watch those kinds of movies with a room full of teenaged girls. I went to see Breaking Dawn Part 1 a couple of weeks after it opened. I didn't have a good experience due to the young girls, and the one man who was seated next to me, and had obviously been forced to go with his girlfriend. He huffed whenever Edward said something romantic. The young girls didn't stop talking, and of course squealing when any man's shirt came off. The boys also want to go, so I will probably be seeing it at least twice in the theater. Did you read the books Car?
I am so happy to hear how close you are to your boys.
I am also very close to mine. This was one of WH's complaints, that I gave too much attention to our DS9 (who has specific challenges of his own).
I understand the concept of H and W spending time together away from kids, but then both parents need to be involved in parenting so they can share responsibilities. My WH was only involved in the parts he liked and left all the other everyday stuff to me (making sure homework, bath, clothes, food etc are in order).
So, I do not feel much his absence in this aspect since I was used to doing it all by myself. Like you, I might feel the difference after D in finances, but I will either find a better paying job (but no longer hours :)) or adjust. Will see.
I do miss him when it is bedtime and we used to cuddle to fall asleep. Ooops, sorry, I guess I am highjacking your thread...
I have not read the Hunger Games. Is it really good? I need reading for my plane trip, so that might be it.
Your personal recovery is great, steady, strong and with the healing of THREE souls in your capable hands.
Your Plan B is the one I modelled my own on, and all the benefits I have gained are directly due to you.
I think you are a beacon to Plan Bers on these boards and that you practice what you preach: how to be a tower of strength and turn the worst time of your life into a positive experience.
I know you don't like too many words of admiration.
The Hunger Games is AMAZING. It's a trilogy. I had borrowed the first one from the library but needed to wait for the other one to get shipped to my library. I waited 2 days, and then bought all 3 books. I then loaned them to my friends, and some of them purchased them after they read them as well, they were that good. The Trilogy was suggested on this very thread.
Estrela, if you have ever had the time to read my thread, you will know that I don't mind t/j's. I actually welcome them.
Your personal recovery is great, steady, strong and with the healing of THREE souls in your capable hands.
Your Plan B is the one I modelled my own on, and all the benefits I have gained are directly due to you.
I think you are a beacon to Plan Bers on these boards and that you practice what you preach: how to be a tower of strength and turn the worst time of your life into a positive experience.
I know you don't like too many words of admiration.
I know that.
But tough, deal with it
THANK YOU.
I am the direct result of all of the people who helped me as well. They are the people you read throughout this thread. And some of them helped me off board as well. And it is true that when you help others, you help yourself.
Indie, your Plan B hasn't been too shabby either. And who do you think was the inspiration for this update? I count YOU as an adviser to me as well.
The Hunger Games is AMAZING. It's a trilogy. I had borrowed the first one from the library but needed to wait for the other one to get shipped to my library. I waited 2 days, and then bought all 3 books. I then loaned them to my friends, and some of them purchased them after they read them as well, they were that good. The Trilogy was suggested on this very thread.
I think that was me and FF? Be warned, those books are hard to put down!! I was in B&N with the kids the other day and saw a guy with a crazed look in his eye go over to the shelves, grab Book 3 and head to the check out. I had to chuckle to myself because that's exactly how I was when I read them - I don't think anything else got done for a few days.
The Hunger Games is AMAZING. It's a trilogy. I had borrowed the first one from the library but needed to wait for the other one to get shipped to my library. I waited 2 days, and then bought all 3 books. I then loaned them to my friends, and some of them purchased them after they read them as well, they were that good. The Trilogy was suggested on this very thread.
I think that was me and FF? Be warned, those books are hard to put down!! I was in B&N with the kids the other day and saw a guy with a crazed look in his eye go over to the shelves, grab Book 3 and head to the check out. I had to chuckle to myself because that's exactly how I was when I read them - I don't think anything else got done for a few days.
Can't wait for the movie!!!
Good update BTW Scotty
I do remember you and FF suggesting them. I had a co-worker of mine come to me on Sunday and say, "Scotty, just so you know I HATE YOU." I said, "Why?" She then went on to tell me how she decided to finally take my advice and read them. She can't put them down. She's only on the Hunger Games, where they entered the arena. I told her that she hasn't seen anything yet.
I'm certain the movie won't live up to expectations but I am looking forward to seeing some of the characters and how they portray the characters. I think that Woody Harrelson as Haymitch is a GREAT CHOICE. Also, I am looking forward to Kirk Douglas as President Snow. I'm not sure about Lenny Kravitz playing Cinna, but we shall see. Can't wait. Well, I guess I actually can, since I am going to wait a few weeks.
I think you should get a couple friends to go with you to see the movie on opening night! Nothing like seeing one the Friday night it opens in a theatre full of people!
I think you should get a couple friends to go with you to see the movie on opening night! Nothing like seeing one the Friday night it opens in a theatre full of people!
I have friends that will be going to the midnight showing on Thursday Night. I won't be one of them. You going then Reading?
Your personal recovery is great, steady, strong and with the healing of THREE souls in your capable hands.
Your Plan B is the one I modelled my own on, and all the benefits I have gained are directly due to you.
I think you are a beacon to Plan Bers on these boards and that you practice what you preach: how to be a tower of strength and turn the worst time of your life into a positive experience.
I know you don't like too many words of admiration.
I know that.
But tough, deal with it
THANK YOU.
I am the direct result of all of the people who helped me as well. They are the people you read throughout this thread. And some of them helped me off board as well. And it is true that when you help others, you help yourself.
Indie, your Plan B hasn't been too shabby either. And who do you think was the inspiration for this update? I count YOU as an adviser to me as well.
Uh OH...
But seriously Scottie, from victim to survivor and then to Over-comer. I am older but those things are happening with me too.
The Muppets was great. I laughed out loud. I had fun watching them modernize it. And I enjoyed it with my boys. DS9's favourite part was the Muppet or Man song, when Walter's Man turned out to be the actor that plays Sheldon on Big Bang Theory. He LOVES Sheldon. BAZINGA.
Reading, The Hunger Games is a must read, so I hope the movie will be a must see. Although, a friend of mine, who hasn't read the books, did say that the premise sounds an awful lot like Battle Royale. I dunno, but I have added that book and movie to my list as well.
CP, it is funny how through helping others heal, we heal a little bit of ourselves and sometimes we can see the advice that WE should use as we suggest it to someone else. Nothing but good can come from that.
CP, it is funny how through helping others heal, we heal a little bit of ourselves and sometimes we can see the advice that WE should use as we suggest it to someone else. Nothing but good can come from that.
Yeah Scotty, something like the pot calling the kettle black?
What also is great, is that we see the things we were afraid of, as becoming smaller and less significant as time goes by.
Then we can dare to live again, having learned from the past, and the past doesn't rule us emotionally anymore.
Its true isn't it? That when you let it go, another door opens. Done with the right spirit, all things, including our mistakes and misfortunes, can turn out for our sakes.
God is just waiting to bless us Just gotta stay in the ring
Nope, haven't read them although after the discussion they have generated on your thread I am adding them to my list! I loved The Running Man as a kid (the movie's kitch now I know but from memory the book was great) so the premise of the trilogy sounds tempting.
As for crazed looks when buying books, I bought the first Twilight at an airport in Aus years ago for the flight back to UK. By the time I changed flights in Singapore, I was rushing straight to the bookshop in transit to get the second. Arriving in UK, I headed straight to get the third... jet-lagged and all, I was still reading when I got home in UK, lol!
Oh Twilight, that is what started this all for me. All of my friends were reading them, and I decided to give them a shot. I read the first 200 pages of Twilight and thought, "What's the big deal?" Then, I found out. The amount of things Stephanie Meyer can cram into final pages is unbelievable. She is a great story teller. When I was reading Breaking Dawn, I didn't eat, or sleep until it was done. I had borrowed my friend's books, so as soon as I was done, I had to buy my own set. I read them 2 more times. Still enjoyed them. I'm going to re-read them again soon. I found some George R.R. Martin, and Ted Dekker books at the book sale. I heard they are pretty good writers. We'll see.
Today, I'm feeling under the weather. DS11 stepped up and took charge. It made me a little sad, but also proud. I'm saddened that he feels like he has to be the man in the house. He's so young. That's not his job. He should have been able to live his childhood, and not take on responsibilities before his time. Both my boys are good kids. They didn't deserve this, but they are surviving it, and THRIVING.
Feel better Scotty! I ordered my Hunger Games trilogy on amazon. Will keep them for the plane trip. DS 10 wants to read them also. Is he too young for them? I haven't read Twilight books, I thought I was too old for them, but maybe now that I am getting younger I will give it a try
Your DS10 isn't too young for them. My DS11 started to read them, but he wasn't that far in when he gave up. Then I loaned them to my friend's son(who is also my DS11's friend) and he is reading them. Wouldn't you know, now my son wants to read them. Here, a lot of schools are having their grade 7 or 8 classes read them as part of their studies.
scotty, i think your thread should be a sticky at the top of the board. when i first started visiting here, about 3-4 months ago, yours was one of the first threads i read. it took about 3 days! your experience and PR has been not just amazing, but inspiring. you're probably sick of hearing that
i am taking appx 200 boys to see THG tomorrow at a private (thank goodness, adding girls would just about do me in ) screening. i have read all 3 books and am looking forward to the film - i think it will be visually stunning. and a great lesson on "reality" television.
i have just had a similar experiece with the girl w/the dragon tattoo trilogy. i put off reading them for ages because both the title and cover (lol) put me off. but they were great! i toe-tapped while waiting for another staff member to finish the third volume. i've had mixed reviews on the two films, but am going to watch both.
now, i came in here to say something about "good man" thing. i teach at a traditional all-boys school. one of our goals is to mould "good men." i see a lot of heartache with stepfathers. i have heard many stories directly from teens about their stepfathers (and the whole authoritarian thing). but i would say "a not-good man doesn't raise another man's children. a GOOD MAN does."
no matter how good your PR, is it realistic to live a decade without a partner, a helpmate? plus, what if the BW is young and wishes to have more children?
i can see not dating for 2 years/PR complete to avoid a rebound-type relationship without having learned MB. but for a person who personfies the principles, you are in a superior position to choose wisely, a good man who will benefit your family, not just a male who would fill your empty bed. big difference.
I hope you liked the Hunger Games. I took my daughter last night. We were both very excited having read the novel together. Great story, and they did a very nice job with the movie. Terrific cast and visual depictions of the setting. I liked most of the decisions made by the director, but had a few objections as well.
Katniss Everdeen is a terrific protagonist. A model of courage and strength for young ladies to admire.
Justthe3ofus - is the movie for younger kids? My DS is 10 1/2. He hasn't read the books yet. I agree to take him to the movies once he reads the first book. He is on the sensitive side emotionally...
Thank you for your post Letty. As I am not even ready to get a divorce yet, the question of whether I could find a suitable person to share my life with isn't a question, yet.
I was shocked to hear what DrH said, but I do agree with him, and I understand. The fact that I have found MB gives me a much greater chance at finding a suitable person, but I'm not there yet.
I'm very very close to the end of my wanting Bampot to come home. I am a little bit sad about that. The door is almost completely closed. Today, if he came to me, hat in hands, I would let him try to convince me that he is serious, but I wouldn't jump at it. It's a good place for me, but I am a little sad that that part of my life is over. I'm still not ready to be divorced, and financially, I will still need to wait at least about a year, but I am getting there. I am sure that there are some who thought that Bampot was a better man than he turned out to be. Heck, I thought he was. At one time, he was. I guess he really changed much more than I ever realized but looking back, I can see signs when it started happening. Porn watching, chatting with women online, IB, etc. A lot of it happened after we had the boys, and I stopped working. I was focused on taking care of my children, because I always thought that there would be time after they didn't need me as much. Well, I was wrong, and thanks to MB, I know what happened.
I am not in anyway taking any blame for his affair. That scarlet A is fully tacked on HIS chest. I needed to look at my own actions, and knowledge at the time. I am CONFIDENT that the next relationship I have, it will be amazing. I'm more afraid of the dating scene than I am about living in my taking care of my boys cocoon so for now, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing.
Thank you ALL, for helping me get through the most difficult time in my life.
There have been a few times that I've been surprised by the depth of change for the worse in a WS. Bampot is one of those that I can't believe he didn't come back. I've finally figured out why I'm so surprised each time.
Because I look at the quality of the BS, who started out good and only got better, and just can't believe the WS is so stupid as to throw that opportunity away forever. And yet some are. I won't ever understand it.
Because I look at the quality of the BS, who started out good and only got better, and just can't believe the WS is so stupid as to throw that opportunity away forever. And yet some are. I won't ever understand it.
It truly is something that some people when put to the challenge, shine, and others, seem to be along for the ride.
The sales techniques for the troubled souls are basically the same though, "It wasn't my fault!"
But the question always is, as Scottie asked herself. "So what are you going to DO about it?", (I believe you got that from your Dad Scotty?).
Trying to make sense out of those that make no sense..Oh wait.. they are aliens, not part of this world, and never will be, and just because they think they have discovered a "Better way", does not mean we have to buy it either.
Why do people who have it all, throw it away for vain beliefs, that they think they can have more?
Because I look at the quality of the BS, who started out good and only got better, and just can't believe the WS is so stupid as to throw that opportunity away forever. And yet some are. I won't ever understand it.
Having been married to a WS who is throwing away a marriage for no real reason, I think I do Neak.
Its not a good, satisfying or smart choice - but it's easy.
My WH showed signs of this around the time we met. He's very clever and he was offered an unconditional (no exam results needed) university place to study physics.
He turned it down and took a leisure centre and bar management job which payed pretty well but involved playing pool most of the day. It was easier. The fact he was bored and discontent didn't seem to factor.
Some WSs just want an easy ride. They don't want to tell people they lied, they don't want to do the recovery work.
Some of them discover that being wayward is an easy way to have needs meet. If it doesn't last past two years, you just get another mistress.
I do believe that what Dr H says is true, that most waywards were good people before the A and that returning to the M is the logical choice for many when that A hits the skids.
But logical, right, satisfying and true is not the easy choice.
Sounds like the physics classes would have meant he would have to submit to authority
The bar job? Well we know what is sold there
Lol, my late wife wanted that kind of job too, and it had everything to do with her ego
It is the lies we belive without question, that get us into the most trouble, most of all the entitlement ones, that we are more important, and we have arrived, and there is no more to learn
Because I look at the quality of the BS, who started out good and only got better, and just can't believe the WS is so stupid as to throw that opportunity away forever. And yet some are. I won't ever understand it.
Having been married to a WS who is throwing away a marriage for no real reason, I think I do Neak.
Its not a good, satisfying or smart choice - but it's easy.
My WH showed signs of this around the time we met. He's very clever and he was offered an unconditional (no exam results needed) university place to study physics.
He turned it down and took a leisure centre and bar management job which payed pretty well but involved playing pool most of the day. It was easier. The fact he was bored and discontent didn't seem to factor.
Some WSs just want an easy ride. They don't want to tell people they lied, they don't want to do the recovery work.
Some of them discover that being wayward is an easy way to have needs meet. If it doesn't last past two years, you just get another mistress.
I do believe that what Dr H says is true, that most waywards were good people before the A and that returning to the M is the logical choice for many when that A hits the skids.
But logical, right, satisfying and true is not the easy choice.
Neak, I can't remember how many times I have been reading some BS threads and find myself shaking my head at how stupid the WS is for throwing that level of commitment and quality of person away.
I'm with Indie... during Plan A my WH couldn't even give me or others a real reason for throwing our marriage away (although he tried a variety to see if any would convince us lol!). Family and friends have since pointed out that WH was the dreamer, with many "get rich quick" schemes. I was the logical one, the planner.
Around the time I met WH, he was offered an apprenticeship in a field he is very talented in. He refused, and accepted a labouring job. When we became involved, I asked why he didn't accept it as he spoke of it often... it was because he would have had to accept a lower wage for the four years of the apprenticeship compared to minimum wage labouring for years. Yes, he was young, but so was I and my goals were long term and based on commitment to furthering myself. Shortly before WH's affair started WH raised this apprenticeship, and he admitted to regretting not accepting it so many years ago.
I can see that WH feels disappointed with himself over many things, but is still seeking the easy option rather than having to commit to the longer term goal. Seeking admiration and impressing a 21-year-old is easy gratification rather than doing the hard yards on himself and his own disappointment.
The fact that many A's on here actually end but still the WS won't commit to recovery supports this "easy option" route. Having to admit to lying and face the consequences of that, along with atoning and changing, requires effort and commitment. Sadly, too many waywards can only commit to what feels good and is easy right now. TJ over Scotty, sorry!
Taking the easy way out is, I think, a sign of emotional immaturity. Instant self gratification takes no account of the longer term effects of the behaviour. They are operating at the emotional level of, at best, a teenager or at worst about a six year old.
Caracal, T/j's are perfectly okay around here, even if it is somewhat breaking PLan B by making me think about my WH
On a more serious note, I don't have any examples of my Bampot being like either of those examples. Bampot did what he had to do to take care of me, and then our family. When I became pregnant with DS11, I told him that he would need to find a better paying job before I went into labour, to make up the difference I would lose while on maternity leave. He did, within 6 weeks of finding out I was pregnant. And it was a very well paying job(actually, it's the job he still works at, where he works with OW). He is, and was always ambitious. So, those types of things don't describe him.
What does though is stubborn and someone who chooses to stick his head in the sand rather than deal with emotions.
I haven't really considered the WHY. I deal with the IS. He IS still having an affair, and that is a choice he makes every single moment. At any time, he could choose something different. It's something I am teaching my children, that no matter what mistakes you make, you can ALWAYS turn your life around by changing your choices. It's NEVER too late to do the right thing.
Who knows why Bampot isn't ending his affair, and honestly, who cares? He's not, and that's all I'm dealing with. If he ever does, and decides to try recovery, I'll see where I'm at at the time and deal with it. Otherwise, I carry on living MY life, and LOVING it.
As always, this is in direct relation to my time spent here, and the help of all of you. Thanks is never going to be enough for what you have all done for me, but I thank you all anyways.
Tune in next time for another edition of "Life in Plan B". Where will life take our characters this time? HEHEHEHEHE
TJ - Scotty, saw "Hunger Games" last night and it was EXCELLENT! Not as good as the book but that's to be expected. Laughed, cried, heart was pounding like crazy at certain parts...what more can you ask for
More adventures in the Plan B mind.(Okay, maybe only the Scotty mind, I am an odd bird after all)
I have started, and restarted this post 5 times already tonight. I don't know where my thoughts are headed, and this is the best place I thought of to get it out.
Sometimes, I experience doubts about PLan B. Sometimes, I think about breaking NC with Bampot. Sometimes, I feel like I am over him enough that it wouldn't matter anymore. Other times, I think that I could lure him back to me(these are some low times). I feel sometimes that I didn't do a good enough, or long enough Plan A. I even see other posters, who give up on Plan B, and I think, "Maybe I should have done that, instead."(SHUDDER)
I think my biggest problem is getting me out of this buyer mentality. I took vows for life, and I feel guilty by the prospect that I may not uphold them. By that I mean, that I wouldn't be with only Bampot for life. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not thinking about dating until after I am divorced(still not ready for that). I am not going to become a wayward. I have strong boundaries, and with the help of you, and some IRL friends, I have been able to see where I had previous holes in them.
I take my promises very seriously. And my vows, well, I always meant to uphold them.
I, unlike many here, always claimed that I would be able to forgive one affair. Do I know for certain that this was Bampot's only affair? No. It saddens me to say that, but I really don't know. Would it change my outlook if he were to admit to more affairs? I can't say for certain. What I really want to know, and what I believe I deserve more than anything is the truth. Even if Bampot and I were not to get back together, I only wish to know the truth about my life. I want to know how long I was a fool, and how big of one I was. I may most likely never get that. I will have to live with that fact, as hard as it is for me.
I have been having down moments lately. I have even thought about contacting Bampot. I haven't, and I won't, but the thoughts have been there, and that makes me mad. I'm mad at myself for not being stronger. For not being better at Plan B.
I look around my house and I see how much has changed since Bampot has left. I see how I have changed. I see how the boys have changed. I feel badly for HIM because he misses out on the moments he can never have back with our boys, because he chose to be a selfish jerk, and not live up to his responsibilities.
Even ideas about the Disney trip in September, and how we were supposed to do that together. I know we will have fun, and I know that the boys and I will be fine. We'll be better than fine. We'll be great. I just miss Bampot sometimes.
Most times, when a BW enters Plan B, she starts to see her WH for who he truly is, and that person isn't whom she thought(and usually becomes someone much worse). It was even suggested to me that I may not be seeing the real man. I just don't know. When I look at who Bampot was, and what our relationship was, I see things that I didn't see before, but it is more about his loving me, than about him being a bad man.
I, of course, see the weak boundaries, but I see where I had weak boundaries as well. I see how care wasn't always taken with my feelings and concerns, and I see that on my end as well.
Could I have been lied to for 18 years? Could he have been someone else? I don't believe so, but how can I trust MY judgement? Even if I were to contemplate moving on with someone else someday, how would I trust myself not to fall for someone like Bampot again?
I think that this suddenly has come up because of a few events that have happened as of late. I used to dream about Bampot a lot. Then, in late February, I realized that I hadn't in a long while. I thought it odd. That night, I did dream about him(of course, since I suggested it to myself). The main thing I remembered were numbers. 12, 4, 1. I thought it was part of a phone number, as it seemed familiar to me. Then, I thought about dates, and I thought that it might be April 1st/12. Didn't think too much, but I kept it on the backburner. I honestly thought that maybe Bampot was going to hand me divorce papers on that day. I actually considered it, and thought that I could handle it.
The boys were with Bampot that morning, as it was his weekend, and I was alone that morning. I awoke at 630am, having heard, what I thought was Bampot's voice say, "I love you, Scotty." It actually startled me, and made my heart beat fast. I looked around and saw that I was still completely alone. I headed off to work, and thought nothing of it. Bampot dropped the boys off at 630, as usual, and he called them to make sure they got in okay. The weird thing is, he called again at 830pm. The boys didn't answer, but I found it weird. Yesterday(he gets visitation every Sunday, and every other Saturday), he dropped them off at 630pm, and phoned them to see if they were in the house safely(this is after he watches them walk to the door, and then drives around the block, since they won't knock until he has driven away). At 730pm, he phoned them. Again, the boys didn't answer. I only mention these things as weird behaviour. We can never imagine what goes on in a wayward mind, and it is crazy-making to try to figure it out.
I hope this is another step in my personal recovery, and that I have taken the right path. I am forever grateful for PLan B. It may not have saved my marriage, but it sure did give it the best chance. And it saved me YEARS of pain, that I am not certain I would have survived.
Plan B, and PR aren't done with me yet. Let's see where else this life is gonna lead.
You are just swooping right now. Your romantic self wants love, love, love.
Anyway. Don't wonder what you would do if he told IM he ended his affair and wanted to rebuild.
Just plug along. Just consider filing and getting released so you, in the future, are free to maybe date others. Not a bad thing. A girl, after giving it her all can choose options.
I think reading hit it on the head, after all, spring is in the air.
Don't beat yourself up about it, and remember, you have done and are doing your part, and have broken no vows.
That's what is great about those vows, they are always revealing themselves as more important, wildly beyond what we thought in the beginning, when we thought they were just rules.
I don't know Scotty, I know that I am not done with Plan B and personal recovery, either though well on my way. I have fewer ties than you do not having any children with him. Your feelings for the father of your children are always going to be more complex.
I know that my divorce will sever whatever ties are left. Its that I still feel bound to him through my undissolved vows. Right up until 'the fat lady sings' I would hear him out regarding recovery, but if he allows a divorce to be finalised, simply to stay in contact with her, I would ask my (amazing) IM to not to pass any message at all post divorce.
Its funny, but I have been having some 'he wasn't all bad' thoughts lately too. The gentlesness of his smile, how much he cared about his friends, the way he loved me and showed it...
I don't usually allow those thoughts but recently I did - I think its important to see a realistic picture, not a demonisation of the WH. As Dr H says, they are usually good people who turned down a bad road and kept going for weakness and temptation.
I look around my house too and see changes and fresh memories of good times he has missed out on. But I realise that during that time, he will have changed too, and not for the better. He will have become steadily more wayward and probably does not have that gentle smile any more. How could he?
Thank you Reading, and CP. I think you two are very right. Taker is YELLING at me. WANT WANT WANT. I know that I have done everything I could. I didn't even want to write about this on here, because I looked at it as a negative, and focusing too much on Bampot. Then, I decided that as with everything, you take the good with the bad. Also, when you are at a low point, that's when change can happen. Times of difficulty are just opportunities to become better.
Originally Posted by Indie
But I realise that during that time, he will have changed too, and not for the better. He will have become steadily more wayward and probably does not have that gentle smile any more. How could he?
Oh, I KNOW that Bampot is not that same man that he once was. I know that that goodness in him is covered in some stinking mess, and he probably wouldn't even recognize it anymore. There are a lot of things he would need to change for me to even consider recovery with him at this point.
There are moments, when I think about if I am ready to file for divorce. I think about what it would take for me to consider recovery with Bampot. I think about what kind of man I would be willing to let into my life. I actually believe that I would need to hold Bampot to a higher standard than another man, because I already know what I am getting with him. I know he is an adulterer. I know how he is capable of tearing my life apart. And, even though we have good history, there is a whole hill of bad history there to overcome that wouldn't be there with someone else. Sometimes, that is quite appealing to me.
A different man wouldn't look at my children, and share the pride I feel, ever. Another man couldn't love my children the way that I do. And Bampot, the way that he is right now, isn't a very good father to my boys. That hurts me. I'm doing a great job with them, and I ensure that the male role models they have are positive ones. It's important that they know right from wrong, and that they grow up to be fine young men. We're on our way there(and no thanks to Bampot).
I'm not ready to move on. How do I know? Well, I still ask myself that question, if Bampot were to come to me, TODAY, hat in hands willing to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING I ask, would I consider letting him try? My answer is "Yes." Which means that it wouldn't be fair to another man to get any less than all of me. KWIM?
t/j(can I actually t/j myself?) I'm going to see Hunger Games tonight.
Well, if you release yourself from his wife-dom and are free of that AND otherwise do nothing else but live your life....he still could come back with hat in hand.
He still could choose to be a family with you.
The only difference is you have more options yourself. You release yourself to move more freely.
You wouldn't have to date. Wouldn't have to consider dating. But you could.
HTMS
It would not mean you are any less committed of a wife. Truly.
A different man wouldn't look at my children, and share the pride I feel, ever. Another man couldn't love my children the way that I do. And Bampot, the way that he is right now, isn't a very good father to my boys. That hurts me. I'm doing a great job with them, and I ensure that the male role models they have are positive ones. It's important that they know right from wrong, and that they grow up to be fine young men. We're on our way there(and no thanks to Bampot).
Yes Scotty, and that is where I am also, and why I stayed for the kids sake too.
So now, with the taste of battle for the important things in life, why would I settle for a Girlfriend? I could have one, a comforter and friend, but because they always chased me, and never really knew me, and I jumped in with sword drawn and six-guns blazing,(like is expected of men?), I did not do the research, or take the mature precautions, at the prime of life.
Yes I know life is not over yet, and I know there is much to be enjoyed, but the playing field has been changed..Not looking for good-looking without character and good relations inside. Not looking to save anyone. Not looking at all..and I am determined to be happy like that.
Good friends trumps all of that stuff, always did, and always will, the rest are just bennies.
Man/Women were built for relationship, and truth and light makes good ones/friends, and those that you can depend upon, whether is sickness or in health, they have your back.
People have thier plans, and God has His. We can trust in His
I was told you are having dreams. I am also having dreams, and they have been haunting me lately.
I wake in the middle of the night almost 100% certain I am laying next to my husband in our old home in our old bed surrounded by our babies.
I wake startled and all that is next to me are my kids. Usually the baby and four year old.
It is so real ... I can hear him ... feel him ... remember him.
I am not sure what to do with this in Plan B. You cannot control your dreams.
I sit here with tears of utter sadness pouring out of my eyes because I want the images to go away. I want him to be dead. I want the nightmare to end.
I keep telling myself ... he is a full blown addict. He is still in an active affair, and somewhere down there is my amazing husband.
I am sorry you are having the dreams. I know others are having them also. They really can get a person stuck in Plan B. I am hoping some meditation and self soothing before bed will help me overcome the pain of them, or make them go away.
PI, the dreams had left me, and then it started again. Not often, but it usually follows where my mind has been going. I know that this time, my dreams are happening because I want to be better at PB and be moving on, but I am afraid. There is a real part of me that doesn't want to move forward, into that unknown world without some tie to the old me. It really has nothing to do with Bampot. I mean it. It's about how I was someone for years, someone's wife, and it's like that identity has been taken away from me. I am not ready to be labeled as divorced, because a real solid part of me will believe that it means I failed.
I logically know that it wasn't about me. I know I am NOT to blame for Bampot's affair. Don't worry about that.
I guess I'm just not ready to give in to defeat. Silly, huh?
Bampot isn't someone today whom I would be proud to call husband. The sad fact is, that he still is, but only as long as I want him to be. I have done everything possible and ANYONE would be proud to call me wife. It's too bad that the one person whom I am actually married to has forgotten that, and chose somewhere else to lay his head.
I don't have anything to add, but thanks for being there for all of us even though you deal with your own situation. I admire your strength and draw from it at times.
Thanx GJM. I hope you will be here to guide the BH's who come here with you kick azz Plan Aing skills. You rock.
I know the pain adultery causes, and I hope to make the world a little less painful for someone else. I think that's why many of the long term posters are trying to do. I often times would pray for soldiers in the war against adultery, and I believe many of those people post on this very forum. Forever grateful.
I post about my experience in hopes that someone else will see that they are not alone. I also get a lot of strength from being here. At times, MB has been my lifeline. Just paying it forward. MB had a GIANT account in my Love Bank.
It will take time for the dreams to go away, and the power of them is intense I know.
It helps to remember what the waywards represent, and to be glad to be rid of them, so new and familiar dreams can come into your heart and imagination.
You know what is good and right, and you will be healed in time, as you allow them to ruin their life and future, and wrench their hands from yours, and believe again.
It can be hypnotizing, the lack of care they have for themselves, and the question of why..Alien stuff, mind bending because we knew them once, and they had so much potential, and we once relied on them for our own souls prosperity.
But they bought the Alien package, selfish realization, drugs, and control. Lies and deceit, manipulation, all to receive power, because they were afraid. Afraid of missing out, of not getting their fair share. They were conned by the oldest tricks in the book, and we couldn't help them, because they thought they knew better.
They think they won something, and they are fools throwing everything away worth anything, and they think they got rid of us too..
Peachys story is awesome, along with many others here on the threads, of how the wages on Sin is spiritual death, and if you go to far, real death,(my story).
I am thankful for Gods guidance in my life, and I am positive the black days will show a reason, and a hope for my children and others. Things move ahead slowly, but they do move ahead, and I am thankful that they do.
I know the pain adultery causes, and I hope to make the world a little less painful for someone else. I think that's why many of the long term posters are trying to do. I often times would pray for soldiers in the war against adultery, and I believe many of those people post on this very forum. Forever grateful.
I post about my experience in hopes that someone else will see that they are not alone. I also get a lot of strength from being here. At times, MB has been my lifeline. Just paying it forward. MB had a GIANT account in my Love Bank.
Thanx GJM. I hope you will be here to guide the BH's who come here with you kick azz Plan Aing skills. You rock.
I know the pain adultery causes, and I hope to make the world a little less painful for someone else. I think that's why many of the long term posters are trying to do. I often times would pray for soldiers in the war against adultery, and I believe many of those people post on this very forum. Forever grateful.
I post about my experience in hopes that someone else will see that they are not alone. I also get a lot of strength from being here. At times, MB has been my lifeline. Just paying it forward. MB had a GIANT account in my Love Bank.
Thanks Scotty...the mistake I made in 2001 when I first found this site (can't remember my user name for the life of me), was that I implemented bits and pieces and when everything started going smoothly, I forgot about MB. Back then, the support wasn't near what it is today. I'm grateful for what it is right now.
I did tackle Plan A like no other. lol...Mortarman likes to pop up on me every now and then and inspire me to stick with the plan. I wish I would see him on here more often, but I know he's busy with the family and new home.
Scotty (and PI) - one thing that I learned how to do is plan my dreams. I've dealt with panic attacks at night that would wake me in a heart beat - typically caused by crunching numbers in my sleep. The payables would cause the freak-out and the receivables would calm me down and I could go to sleep; until 1991 when the receivables didn't outweigh the payables. Ever since then the dreams have been uncontrollable unless I planned out my dreams by ordering my thoughts.
It's tough when you lay down at night; you're tired, and some nights you just let the problems of the day melt into your pillow - but that's when they sneak into your dreams trying to get your subconscious to sort them out.
I found my most effective dreaming happened when I would sort out my thoughts to a singular focus - Only one problem allowed on my nightly stage and it was never going to be THE BIG problem that threatened to overwhelm me. It was a problem I knew I had the power within me to resolve.
I used music - something step-by-step methodical. At first when I started using this technique I tried Janet Jackson Black Cat - but that just brought the BIG PROBLEM front and center - I was angry and powerless with THAT problem. And Black Cat just put me front and center, fighting THAT problem instead of solving those things that were mine to solve.
I saw Mary Poppins and there was some funny music that used a kazoo - the sidewalk picture playground with the penguin waiters? I'd use that to minimize the terror I felt about the BIG PROBLEM, make it funny and yank that problem off my stage. Then I'd mentally walk through Bach Aire note by note to get my preferred problem back front and center. I'd start with the string bass notes louder 1 - 2 - 3 - 4; 1 - 2 - 3 - 4; (and then the violins take over the stage with the melody...). And I'd have another thought speaking with the music as accompaniment that my dreams would teach me how to solve this one little problem and that I'd wake refreshed and peaceful. I'd wake with confidence that this little problem was easily solved and I would know what to do. Typically it worked fantastically.
Lately, the BIG PROBLEM has been trying to get back into my dreams and I had fallen out of this habit, so your situation was timely in bringing this back to my awareness. Tonight, Bach will reign supreme in the orchestra pit and I will choose the actors on my stage - not some big problem that doesn't know when it's whooped! It will get the message, or get starved out of existence! But it's not getting on my stage!
Don't we all need to Plan B our BIG PROBLEMS? If we truly can't fix it, change it, etc. is it really ours to solve? Wayward husbands/wives; politics; debt; anything else that we have little or no control over?
I did tackle Plan A like no other. lol...Mortarman likes to pop up on me every now and then and inspire me to stick with the plan. I wish I would see him on here more often, but I know he's busy with the family and new home.
Thats funny because I would have been one to take the punishment, and let her get away with everything.
when real success came for us, (started at least), when I left her becuase of drinking.
Now if I had MB, to hold my feet to the fire, to hold hers to the fire, to seek treatment for drinking..Yes like Dr H says, stopping the love affair with substance abuse, is just the beggining of recovery..Then we could have put our efforts in real work, and healing also..
All that wasted time not dealing with the right issues..
I believe in MB because I tried it the CP way, and the WW way, and it failed, but everything I did do the MB way, worked, even though it was purely by accident.
It's about how I was someone for years, someone's wife, and it's like that identity has been taken away from me. Sorry for the late post but I wanted to comment on this. I am divorced now and still have that same feeling but its getting better. This is what codependency does for you and its something I am trying to correct. So you're not alone in that feeling Scotty. How are we supposed to forget about the last XX years of our life?
I am not ready to be labeled as divorced, because a real solid part of me will believe that it means I failed.
I too felt that Divorce meant failure. I never quit....EVER so Divorce just didn't seem like a viable option to me. The thing I came to realize is that I didn't quit, WxW did, I just moved on.
I logically know that it wasn't about me. I know I am NOT to blame for Bampot's affair. Don't worry about that.
I guess I'm just not ready to give in to defeat. Silly, huh?
Bampot isn't someone today whom I would be proud to call husband. The sad fact is, that he still is, but only as long as I want him to be. I have done everything possible and ANYONE would be proud to call me wife. It's too bad that the one person whom I am actually married to has forgotten that, and chose somewhere else to lay his head.
One of the major factors that contributed to my decision to file for Divorce is that I respect the institution of marriage too much to let this farce of a marriage continue. I refused to let her hold the title of "Lnt's wife" any longer while being someone elses live in girlfriend. Its an insult and mockery to an institution that God himself created.
Under these circumstances, Divorce is NOT defeat, it is a relief. It was a door that God led me through, even tho I did not want to go.
I am pretty dern certain that my WH doesn't label himself as my "husband" anymore. I am sure I am, in his mind, his ex.
Carving out a life that is just for me and my boys. I still find myself taking out 4 plates at dinner, or diving things into 4. It's weird when I catch myself doing that, because, it's been more than 2 YEARS.
It's about how I was someone for years, someone's wife, and it's like that identity has been taken away from me. Sorry for the late post but I wanted to comment on this. I am divorced now and still have that same feeling but its getting better. This is what codependency does for you and its something I am trying to correct. So you're not alone in that feeling Scotty. How are we supposed to forget about the last XX years of our life?
I am not ready to be labeled as divorced, because a real solid part of me will believe that it means I failed.
I too felt that Divorce meant failure. I never quit....EVER so Divorce just didn't seem like a viable option to me. The thing I came to realize is that I didn't quit, WxW did, I just moved on.
I logically know that it wasn't about me. I know I am NOT to blame for Bampot's affair. Don't worry about that.
I guess I'm just not ready to give in to defeat. Silly, huh?
Bampot isn't someone today whom I would be proud to call husband. The sad fact is, that he still is, but only as long as I want him to be. I have done everything possible and ANYONE would be proud to call me wife. It's too bad that the one person whom I am actually married to has forgotten that, and chose somewhere else to lay his head.
One of the major factors that contributed to my decision to file for Divorce is that I respect the institution of marriage too much to let this farce of a marriage continue. I refused to let her hold the title of "Lnt's wife" any longer while being someone elses live in girlfriend. Its an insult and mockery to an institution that God himself created.
Under these circumstances, Divorce is NOT defeat, it is a relief. It was a door that God led me through, even tho I did not want to go.
ITA and
Originally Posted by karmasrose
It'll take time to wean yourself off doing that, I think. Just be patient with yourself.
When you divide something in quarters, that makes one piece for each boy, and two for you! Even if you don't eat both of them then and there, you've earned them.
My WH isn't told about the functions. If he were to ever be in the same place as me, I would leave. I have advised those in the past to have an exit strategy. ie. have someone else be responsible for taking children home from events, in case the BS needs to make a quick exit, and have someone record the event so the BS can enjoy the moment with the child at a later time. While it may not be "fair" for the BS to miss events, during PB, it is VERY important for the emotional well being and healing of the BS.
I take my PB seriously. A HUGE part of me started this because I would want Bampot to take recovery seriously, so I was leading by example. I would NEVER accept an excuse for contact with OW if recovery were to begin, so I MUST hold myself to the same standard during my PB.
Things have changed in my life. I miss school functions, and trips that happen during the day. I have missed parent-teacher interviews because of work. The boys have had to be home alone while I was still at work. After being available any time during the day, and knowing that another parent would be with them when I wasn't able to, this was a HUGE adjustment. It was also very necessary. And I had to deal with the guilty feelings over it. The thing that most helped me was the knowledge that had I not entered PB, my children's life(and my own) would be filled with much more turmoil and drama. There was never any question to me as to which path I needed to choose. It wasn't easy. It wasn't fair. But it was RIGHT.
You can also go to the function and if the wayward shows up and attempts to sit with the betrayed or speak with them say
"I would appreciate you don't sit near me." or "I would appreciate you not trying to speak with me."
Simple.
Avoiding functions where the both will be is ideal but sometimes there are huge events that the betrayed wants to go to.
Preschool graduation is not a big deal but I can see betrayed ones wanting to be there for sentimentality reasons and Dr. H recommends asking a physician for a medication for the event to ride the emotional upset.
I personally, wouldn't even talk to my WH and ask him not to sit near me. I would simply leave. That's my choice, and I'm sticking to that.
I know that the polite requests would still comply with Plan B because its not meeting needs but...
Me too. Even third hand bits of info about him affect my Plan B for weeks, so no way could I be anywhere near him. I have a turn on my heel and leave policy, should I ever see him unexpectedly. No matter what the function or who I offend.
Seeinng them would give you TMI on how they're doing, how healthy, how prosperous, how happy.
scottie, every time i look at your thread, i am amazed at your strength and how you've created such a better life for you and your kids. sure, there's fallout from that (your list above). but you know what? kids who are taught to handle adversity turn into much better adults than those who aren't. you are raising quality young men, and part of that is showing your boys that women/wives are to be loved and valued. THAT is the most important lesson they are taking from your life.
You only ask the Wayward not to sit next to you if they actually come over and appear to be planning to do so.
And, yes, you can leave a function. Most often that is practical.
You plan to not come across your spouse in Plan B. You prepare in case you do.
If you plan to leave, you leave the function for your own emotional protection though, not to teach the wayward a lesson.
Dr. H has mentioned that for important functions, that the betrayed would like to attend, a physician can prescribe medication to ride the emotional trigger. And make no mistake, you would be on a very triggered roller coaster ride if you have been around the wayward. That is a given.
My thoughts....funerals depend on the relationship to the deceased. If the wayward is 'closer' related, the betrayed could skip it. If the betrayed is 'closer' then the wayward could not be invited. If they are both equally close due to whatever reason.....betrayed could skip it if they know wayward is going. Then, offer to visit the deceased's family at another time.
HTMS.....
lol on Scotland's thread being the meeting place of the discussion. Maybe we could have a separate thread in notables?
What about funerals the BS wants to attend? What are Plan B'ers thoughts?
This is why its so important for people to step up and support the BS. They cause serious pain and the people around the BS should know this and exclude the WS.
I get what reading is saying, that there may be events so important and so unavoidable where you need to get ADd up and just cope with the triggers afterward. I wouldn't, but that's me.
But wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where betrayal was taken seriously and active betrayers shunned? There's no way someone violent would be welcomed into as many functions as a wayward is.
Wanted to just stop in, since I have gotten a couple of emails/etc about my absence lately. There is nothing wrong, just need some time to sort some stuff out, IRL. Taking a bit of a rest, and then I will be back, ready to go.
Adultery sucks, and it sucks that so many people are constantly effected by it. I am still dealing with my own fallout from my WH's affair. Time to focus on myself, and my boys, and then I will be able to help all of those out there.
I am very touched that I was missed. It means something to me that someone would even notice that I wasn't around. WHo knows, maybe some of you reading out there will step up to fill the void for a bit. I know that there are many who are up to the task. MB is GREAT, and it's a community, built on the backs(and fingers) of MANY.
THis is not a so-long, or good-bye, it's a see ya in a bit.
And don't worry peeps, Plan B is FULL ON, and will remain so. There's not a risk of me slipping out of it. I KNOW how it saved my life. I am grateful for every single one of you. Sometimes, we need to take care of ourselves, so we can take care of others.
And, if there are any avid readers out there, I found a series I am IN LOVE with. J. R. Ward, Black Dagger Brotherhood. Paranormal romance, about vampires.
And for the NPCA, I painted my finger nails black, with pink sparkles. Not crazy about it, but it was a stretch for me, so I'll leave it on for a couple of days. Then, it's some NEON. It is the trend after all.
I will be back on, as soon as I am in a good spot. Thanks for caring.
Wanted to just stop in, since I have gotten a couple of emails/etc about my absence lately. There is nothing wrong, just need some time to sort some stuff out, IRL. Taking a bit of a rest, and then I will be back, ready to go.
Adultery sucks, and it sucks that so many people are constantly effected by it. I am still dealing with my own fallout from my WH's affair. Time to focus on myself, and my boys, and then I will be able to help all of those out there.
I am very touched that I was missed. It means something to me that someone would even notice that I wasn't around. WHo knows, maybe some of you reading out there will step up to fill the void for a bit. I know that there are many who are up to the task. MB is GREAT, and it's a community, built on the backs(and fingers) of MANY.
THis is not a so-long, or good-bye, it's a see ya in a bit.
And don't worry peeps, Plan B is FULL ON, and will remain so. There's not a risk of me slipping out of it. I KNOW how it saved my life. I am grateful for every single one of you. Sometimes, we need to take care of ourselves, so we can take care of others.
And, if there are any avid readers out there, I found a series I am IN LOVE with. J. R. Ward, Black Dagger Brotherhood. Paranormal romance, about vampires.
And for the NPCA, I painted my finger nails black, with pink sparkles. Not crazy about it, but it was a stretch for me, so I'll leave it on for a couple of days. Then, it's some NEON. It is the trend after all.
I will be back on, as soon as I am in a good spot. Thanks for caring.
Wanted to just stop in, since I have gotten a couple of emails/etc about my absence lately. There is nothing wrong, just need some time to sort some stuff out, IRL. Taking a bit of a rest, and then I will be back, ready to go.
Adultery sucks, and it sucks that so many people are constantly effected by it. I am still dealing with my own fallout from my WH's affair. Time to focus on myself, and my boys, and then I will be able to help all of those out there.
I am very touched that I was missed. It means something to me that someone would even notice that I wasn't around. WHo knows, maybe some of you reading out there will step up to fill the void for a bit. I know that there are many who are up to the task. MB is GREAT, and it's a community, built on the backs(and fingers) of MANY.
THis is not a so-long, or good-bye, it's a see ya in a bit.
And don't worry peeps, Plan B is FULL ON, and will remain so. There's not a risk of me slipping out of it. I KNOW how it saved my life. I am grateful for every single one of you. Sometimes, we need to take care of ourselves, so we can take care of others.
And, if there are any avid readers out there, I found a series I am IN LOVE with. J. R. Ward, Black Dagger Brotherhood. Paranormal romance, about vampires.
And for the NPCA, I painted my finger nails black, with pink sparkles. Not crazy about it, but it was a stretch for me, so I'll leave it on for a couple of days. Then, it's some NEON. It is the trend after all.
I will be back on, as soon as I am in a good spot. Thanks for caring.
I'd be curious to know if you are feeling different now that you are past the 2 year mark? Do you think you hit Dr. Harley's 2 year threshold? I haven't seen too many people discuss this ... it might be because so many don't come back to tell about an extended Plan B. I know we saw what happened to Mulan ... I was scared after that. I don't want to be shocked like that.
I know Dr. Harley has discussed at length moving on after 2 years. I can only assume he has seen it in his practice, and hence that is why he recommends that action. I just haven't seen life examples on the boards (very few that is).
You are fortunate your WH sees your boys ... in my case my WH not seeing his kids has drained me so much hatred is creeping in.
ScottY: Neither of you have filed yet, right? Just make sure you are documenting what you can about your finances. You might need it down the line. Just saying since I'm in the midst of a trial and his spending on "non-communal" expenses will matter.
And keep up the good work in Plan B. He might wake up. It happens. It's not happened to me but to another long time MBer. She will post -- eventually.
Scotty, wondering how you are, reading your thread and another thread relating to your sitch. I can really relate to how you feel, my heart went out to you b/c it was me. No matter how dark, no matter how WH behaves I still love him with all my heart. I am here for you, if you need someone to talk to I am happy to exchange email addresses if you want to contact the mods. I know how hard this is for you but you are not alone, you have done an amazing job so far and you can get through the anniverary hurdle. My thoughts are with you.
RS, I would say that "I'm okay" but honestly, that would be my public image. When I am really upset, I sort of cocoon myself. And it's not like I come out like a monarch after the cocoon is gone, more like a moth, but it is what I need.
I was actually going to update my thread, in hopes that it may help someone else out there know that they aren't alone, although with this crazy muppet brain of mine, it could just be me.
I'm about to be 100% completely open and honest with you all, and that makes me quite scared, because I'll be vulnerable. Also, I don't quite know where this is heading.
I alluded earlier in my thread that I had been experiencing some health problems. Well, the problems aren't a big issue, it's just some pain in the center of my chest, as well as an inability to breath without pain or pressure, especially while I am boxing(which I have been doing for 2 years now, and I LOVE it). It started in October, and I just fluffed it off. At first, it felt like a strained muscle, or some such. In January, however, I was hitting the handpads and I actually blacked out. I stopped for a few minutes, and when I tried again, my vision started to go gray. I decided that was it for the night, and the next day, I went to the doctor's. She asked me about my symptoms, and I told her. When I mentioned the blacking out, she said, "Don't do boxing anymore." I looked at her and said, "What? I've been boxing for a year and a half and only recently started to experience problems, so it's not that." Also, I had to laff because I am quite over weight and the thought that a doctor would tell someone NOT to exercise was ridiculous. And it reminded me of a joke that my dad told me when I was a child, where a man when to the doctor, and said, "Doc it hurts when I do this," as he raised his arm above his head and the Doctor's answer was "Then stop doing that." That's supposed to be a joke, not real life.
Anywho, the doctor was immediately concerned with my heart, so she sent me for an ECG, a chest xray and had me set up to have a heart monitor for 2 weeks. Also, I mentioned that I believed it may have been asthma which was the cause, so she set me up for a specialist appt with an Asthma and Allergy specialist. I had the heart monitor on in February, and it wasn't fun, especially since I am allergic to adhesives, and had to wear the monitor for 2 weeks straight. The findings from the heart monitor, ECG, chest xrays? I have a bit of a racing heart, but nothing to worry about.
Fast forward to last month, and I get the specialist appt. Lung tests, allergy tests, stress tests, etc. Today, I go for my final test, and I am told that my asthma isn't that bad, so that's not the cause for my pain. Well wooohooo. On to the next thing.
During this health scare(because I was honestly quite worried that there was something seriously wrong), i was ANGRY because I had to deal with this all on my own. I started to realize exactly how alone I am right now. I know I'm not truly alone, but I don't have a partner, and I haven't for some time, and it SUCKS.
So, we add to this the fact that I work part time at a retail job, and I apply at a tonne of other places with not even a call for an interview. It sucks. And full time employment, forget about it. So of course, money's quite tight, and my house is falling down around my ears, literally. I had a tarp on my front porch roof that has been there for about a year. But, I need to plug along, and take care of what I need to, because that's all I can do. Then, my DS11 needs braces because one of his teeth didn't come in, and this isn't covered by Bampot's benefits. Of course. Oh, and then Bampot decides to remove me from his benefits, so I no longer have dental or prescription coverage. Oh yea, rolling in the dough at Casa Scotty.
Needless to say, I have quite the load of external and uncontrollable issues that I am dealing with, and at the same time, it's me.
I have read enough on MB to know about Buyers Renters and Freeloaders, and I remember reading something about Plan B and how it changes a Buyer into a Renter, and it made perfect sense to me. Too bad that it isn't easy to get done. While Bampot was home, I didn't look at other men. I didn't find the need, at all. For 18 YEARS, Bampot was the center of my world as far as men were concerned. Now, I could tell you if a man was good looking, but it was in the same way I could judge a woman. There was never any interest or curiosity in regards to SF with any other man. I'm being completely serious. And many of my friends thought that I was weird, heck I was beginning to think that wasn't normal. Now, I realize that it was more because I was a Buyer, and here, it would have been considered normal.
Anyways, I have some conflicting emotions, as I have begun to feel attracted to men. There was a real war going on in me, because I felt like morally, still being married, I shouldn't be attracted to anyone. It's not anyone I really know. Some actors, strangers that I check out, etc. My boundaries are up high enough that I don't really have any relationships with members of the opposite sex. I'm not that worried about having a RA, since I don't present the opportunities for one. I am quite aware though that had I not found MB, I would have actually probably already had my own A. SHUDDER.
So, the funny thing is that my inner war is that if I am to even fantasize about a guy, and he isn't Bampot, I feel like I am "cheating" on him. Ridiculous? I dunno, but it's what I'm at war with. I need to reconcile my feelings about everything going on with me. I had always found pride in the fact that I had only had SF with Bampot. Now, the reality is that that is going to be taken away from me. I don't want to be alone forever, and I don't think that I should be. I have a lot to offer someone in the future. Just sucks that I have to wait about 10 MORE YEARS. ARGH. That makes me angry too. Bampot gets to go around trying to fill his ENs and mine go unfilled. BOOGERS. I hate that. It's not fair. He was the one who chose to commit adultery, and I'm the one that needs to sit home, alone and take care of the kids. I want to feel protected. I want to be loved the way only a mate can. I want to have that partner. That rock to lean on. That person who cares for me. It's not all fantasy, I had it. And now he has gone and given it to someone else. And he has probably fixed any of the things that I used to complain about, and now he does them for her. That gals me.
I am clearly on a down of the Plan B coaster, and I expect that a lot of changes will occur. As with a lot of people dealing with change, you gotta get to a real low point before you effect change.
I honestly thought I would be much further along in all of this by now. I thought that my career path would have been clear. In the beginning of Plan B, I felt like I could achieve anything, and now, I have gotten into the normalcy of life, and I want something different.
So, I think you all can understand where I'm at with posting on MB for a bit. I just need to get my stuff together so I can help others. It's like what they tell you on planes. I need to put the Oxygen mask on myself before I can help anyone else.
On the Bampot front. Last week, I was walking down my stairs about 630pm, and I heard the special ring for Bampot on the landline. Then, he left a message. It was for the boys, but I deleted, and they didn't even know he left it. It was something about him taking them hiking the next day, I didn't really listen to it. Just enough to know that it wasn't for me, but I was shocked because he hadn't left a message on the answering machine since Plan B first started, and I had to unplug the machine.
Then, yesterday, being Father's Day, the boys had a visit with Bampot. DS9 made him a card and a paper with words to describe Bampot. He came home from the visit and told me that Bampot liked it so much that he cried. That tugged at me a bit. But it doesn't change the fact that Bampot is still a wayward, and so far gone that he probably doesn't know what light looks like anymore.
So, today, I come home from my last specialist appt and there is a message on the machine. I press play, and I hear someone talking, funny, I didn't recognize his voice, until I heard the context of the message and realized he was leaving it for ME. Something about changing his work schedule, and wanting to give me notice when he got it, I don't know what else was said, since I hit delete as soon as I realized what it was, and who it was from. WTH? I don't need anything else plopped on top of my steaming pile right now. ARGH.
I need strength. Those prayers for Walls and Doors sure has turned out much differently than I had expected.
Did anyone actually make it to the end of this long post? Tehehehe. I'm always around, popping in and out, and when I see something I can help with, I will. You guys are amazing, and I'll be back around again in no time. Take care everyone. I'm living La Vida Loca over here but it will get better. I'm gonna make sure of that.
Hugs to you Scotty!! Glad your medical tests are coming back ok. Finger crossed you get normal results on the latest one too. I think you are being too hard on yourself about the feelings you are having towards men. You aren't a robot. What you also refer to as an RA is very different to me too.
I am not sure why you say you have to wait 10 years to have a relationship again....what is that about?
You've been in Plan B for more almost 2.5 yrs now...are you planning to D or not?
Don't mean to pry and you don't have to answer my questions but I hope you don't hold yourself to a standard that robs you of future happiness. Anyway...will hush up...for now. I wish you well!
BR, you may have missed the discussion on here about DrH suggesting that BWs not date until their children are grown. My DS9 won't graduate from HS for 9 more years. I don't plan on remaining married for that long, oh goodness no.
The main reason that I can not D ATM is that I can not get a mortgage on my own. I need to keep this house, and unfortunately, I need to keep Bampot on the deed to keep it. My mortgage is much cheaper than rent of even an apt. And I want to keep the children in the same life as much as possible. Same friends, etc. Also, I am within walking distance of my parent's house, and close to all bus routes. It's ideal to stay here.
And don't worry about asking me questions, that is what makes this place GREAT. I get challenged on my POV and I get to state with more clarity for someone else who may be following along.
Understood. I don't agree with Dr. H's suggestion that BWs not date, have a relationship or remarry until the children are grown. With an MB relationship or marriage, I think the success rate is higher than the percentages that are stated. Knowing better of what a healthy relationship requires vs being naive as we all once were makes a big difference IMO. It's a personal choice. I don't agree but I understand the concern.
Understand about the house and wanting your children to have the same life as much as possible. I wasn't sure if Canadian laws were an influence in your decision. The financial downside sucks.
Scotty, Thanks for sharing all that you are going through right now. Going through medical stuff by yourself is really difficult... I wish I had some wise advice, but can only say that your strength and character show through everything you do. Wishes for an easier time soon. Be well!
to you Scotty. I can relate to how you have felt during Plan B ... I read an earlier thread started by Pep.
I too faced a health issue alone - a potential melanoma and surgery. I was sad having to face this alone and knowing I couldn't rely on Isildur's support.
Its a sad realisation that we are alone and have to face many hurdles without the support of our waywards. The loss of companionship, support and security are hard to face, for me I still struggle with his denigrated views of me and his foggy wayward behaviour ... it hurts.
I understand your need for time out, to regather before helping others. The last couple of weeks have been tough for me and very emotional, I haven't posted on many other threads as I didn't feel I was in the right space to help others and I needed to give myself time.
I'm not up on the topic about waiting till children are grown to start a new relationship, but that seems very extreme. You have allowed yourself time to heal so that any future relationships have a healthy foundation. If you choose a new relationship after D that is your decision. You deserve to be happy, you deserve a healthy happy relationship when you are ready. I do not see any negative impact on your children. They know you fought for your marriage and family, they will see a happy mother moving forward with her life. You will remain a positive role model in their life even if you choose a new partner.
Take care. Try not to be too hard on yourself. I believe there is no set time line for recovery. We have to take each day, week, month at a time and allow ourselves to feel all the emotions. Yes it sucks that it takes so long, but that says alot about you ... you are a loving, caring loyal person, someone with amazing strength and courage.
Actually, DS9 still holds out hope for Bampot to come home. I'm serious. I have said to him, very recently, "I don't think Daddy is ever coming home, but we will be okay." He wouldn't be ready for me to date either.
Dr. Harley explains the concerns with blended families in this clip. It's also our poster optimism and his fiance's call.
Dr. Harley explains daughters would have the most trouble with stepmom and sons will have the most trouble with stepdad.
Scotty is on the right thinking. Please Tell me what you think. Dr. H also says it can be done if the marriage is first and kids are second. That is why they usually fail because the parents put the kids first.
Actually, DS9 still holds out hope for Bampot to come home. I'm serious. I have said to him, very recently, "I don't think Daddy is ever coming home, but we will be okay." He wouldn't be ready for me to date either.
When I reread my statement, I didn't quite express myself very well. What I meant to say was that, there will be factors to consider about entering any new relationship, but with the MB principles any negative impact can be minimised.
I understand completely where you are coming from. My DS6 asked me if I would marry again and I said no I am still married, he replied good you are not breaking your promise. If Isildur remains wayward and we don't reconcile, I don't know if I would ever consider another relationship in the future ... seems to go against the grain.
HF, if you read the beginnings of my thread, you will see that I didn't think I would EVER date again. Well, now that I have been looking around, I KNOW that I COULD, just not anytime soon, unfortunately. I don't want to get a divorce just so I can date. That's ridiculous. And until I can get myself into a position to financially be free from Bampot, so I may consider a D, I will do what I need to.
(((Scotty))) I am so happy you checked in and shared with us. My heart goes out to you friend and I wish I had it within my power to make this all better for you. Your day will come. I cannot tell you how much I admire you for your strength and willpower in the face of all this adversity. This is your life dear and you get to decide what to do with it.
I understand your reasonings for staying in Plan B and for not pushing for divorce. You are an awesome mom who clearly puts her children above your own needs. In the big scheme of things, those kids will be grown before you know it. Guess who they're going to honor and respect for the rest of their lives? You.
Please dont let anyone deter you from your path. I know you're lonely but I believe that your rewards for what you've endured and how strong you've stood are going to be great. I think you will be surprised when things start turning for you. I'm praying that you will be blessed beyond your wildest dreams. Hang in there hon and don't EVER be afraid to reach out when you need help. We know you're Super Scotty, but even Super Scotty can use a boost every now and then.
Take care of yourself and I hope you get to feeling better soon. You've still got a lot of good living to do!
Dr. Harley explains the concerns with blended families in this clip. It's also our poster optimism and his fiance's call.
Dr. Harley explains daughters would have the most trouble with stepmom and sons will have the most trouble with stepdad.
Scotty is on the right thinking. Please Tell me what you think. Dr. H also says it can be done if the marriage is first and kids are second. That is why they usually fail because the parents put the kids first.
Yes, BH. I saw those, and I listened. Having 2 boys, and being the BW, I see how the choice I am making, ATM, is what is right.
My sister is dating a man, and my DS12 has stated that he doesn't want me to date someone, because I may end up with someone like my sister's bf. They're not ready, and I'm still married. It doesn't need to be the choice for someone else. And I won't judge someone else, who has made the decision to date, well after their divorce, while they have small children. But, for me, I'm sticking to the course to lead me down the BEST path.
Scotty I'm not suggesting you start a new relationship, nor that you should D to commence one. My only reference to D, was that if after D (if you choose to D) it was your decision if you wanted a relationship and you deserved a chance of happiness. I do understand your concern for your children, that is my position too. I did read you entire thread quite some time ago.
To be honest I have never considered any future relationship with anyone other than Isildur. I have no plan of D and if at the end of 2 yrs he is still wayward I know I will struggle with D.
I'm not up on Dr H view on children and new relationships/marriages, to be honest I haven't looked at this b/c for me it is not an option now and at this point I can't see it being one in the near future.
Dr. Harley explains the concerns with blended families in this clip. It's also our poster optimism and his fiance's call.
Dr. Harley explains daughters would have the most trouble with stepmom and sons will have the most trouble with stepdad.
Scotty is on the right thinking. Please Tell me what you think. Dr. H also says it can be done if the marriage is first and kids are second. That is why they usually fail because the parents put the kids first.
Dr. Harley also recommends POJA for the blended family and the parent do the only discipline. Without doing those two key factors the divorce rate then becomes 85%.
My own personal experience going through a divorce ATM is I could never imagine doing this in a relationship with another person. The emotions are so raw, changing by the second, and logical thinking can get all skewed. I was thinking if I had a man next to me...he would likely be helping me demonize my deplorable WH (although he may deserve it...it shapes you towards disrespect)...he would automatically have an advantage over my feelings because of their extreme sensitivity...and last but not least he would never get the real, healthy me because I am masked by grief and chaos.
Even though I am following logic with this divorce ... I am still fogged out by emotions. I am still not in my right mind. I am still not healthy for anyone.
Anyone who takes a mate before divorce will never get a good mate. I just cannot see how that could ever be possible. The relationship is starting on such rocky, sandy foundation.
I will forever take the stand to never ever get into a relationship while still married, no matter how much you already feel divorced. Divorce will bring about so many emotions ... staying logical is challenging (even if you have healed yourself quite a bit). Time after divorce is crucial, and if you want to live a happy, healthy life this is truly the best path to take.
Scotty, I read your update. Glad you're still hanging in there. You're an inspiration and the world is a better place because of you.
I'm in healthcare and I'm a little concerned about your symptoms, but it sounds like you are doing what you can do. Please keep a close eye. I don't think the Dr. meant for you to stop exercising, just boxing as it is impactful after all.
I have to tell you that this is one of my favorite jokes.
Originally Posted by scotty
And it reminded me of a joke that my dad told me when I was a child, where a man when to the doctor, and said, "Doc it hurts when I do this," as he raised his arm above his head and the Doctor's answer was "Then stop doing that." That's supposed to be a joke, not real life.
It's Henne Youngman. I believe from the depression era. Just died not too long ago. He also said: Patient told his doctor "Doc, I broke my leg in two places." Doctor says "stop going to those places!"
Your update both made my heart stop with worry and my heart sing at how wonderful you are. What a blessing you are to those boys, especially when the "man" in their lives is on the wrong path. You are the light for them and I have no doubt they will grow into fine men. Please keep an eye on your health and do keep exercising!
Did anyone actually make it to the end of this long post?
Yep.
Hope that the last test turns out ok for you. Take care.
Gotta admit I have not been following you as much because you have done so awesome. But that simply means I feel you have come full circle on the average male fantasy ride so many end up on, and you passed the test.
scotty, glad to see you back. can you pop in on jenn at lonely and losing hope thread? she's got a question on how to handle DS4 and phone calls to WH.
RS, I would say that "I'm okay" but honestly, that would be my public image. When I am really upset, I sort of cocoon myself. And it's not like I come out like a monarch after the cocoon is gone, more like a moth, but it is what I need.
I was actually going to update my thread, in hopes that it may help someone else out there know that they aren't alone, although with this crazy muppet brain of mine, it could just be me.
I'm about to be 100% completely open and honest with you all, and that makes me quite scared, because I'll be vulnerable. Also, I don't quite know where this is heading.
I alluded earlier in my thread that I had been experiencing some health problems. Well, the problems aren't a big issue, it's just some pain in the center of my chest, as well as an inability to breath without pain or pressure, especially while I am boxing(which I have been doing for 2 years now, and I LOVE it). It started in October, and I just fluffed it off. At first, it felt like a strained muscle, or some such. In January, however, I was hitting the handpads and I actually blacked out. I stopped for a few minutes, and when I tried again, my vision started to go gray. I decided that was it for the night, and the next day, I went to the doctor's. She asked me about my symptoms, and I told her. When I mentioned the blacking out, she said, "Don't do boxing anymore." I looked at her and said, "What? I've been boxing for a year and a half and only recently started to experience problems, so it's not that." Also, I had to laff because I am quite over weight and the thought that a doctor would tell someone NOT to exercise was ridiculous. And it reminded me of a joke that my dad told me when I was a child, where a man when to the doctor, and said, "Doc it hurts when I do this," as he raised his arm above his head and the Doctor's answer was "Then stop doing that." That's supposed to be a joke, not real life.
Anywho, the doctor was immediately concerned with my heart, so she sent me for an ECG, a chest xray and had me set up to have a heart monitor for 2 weeks. Also, I mentioned that I believed it may have been asthma which was the cause, so she set me up for a specialist appt with an Asthma and Allergy specialist. I had the heart monitor on in February, and it wasn't fun, especially since I am allergic to adhesives, and had to wear the monitor for 2 weeks straight. The findings from the heart monitor, ECG, chest xrays? I have a bit of a racing heart, but nothing to worry about.
Fast forward to last month, and I get the specialist appt. Lung tests, allergy tests, stress tests, etc. Today, I go for my final test, and I am told that my asthma isn't that bad, so that's not the cause for my pain. Well wooohooo. On to the next thing.
During this health scare(because I was honestly quite worried that there was something seriously wrong), i was ANGRY because I had to deal with this all on my own. I started to realize exactly how alone I am right now. I know I'm not truly alone, but I don't have a partner, and I haven't for some time, and it SUCKS.
So, we add to this the fact that I work part time at a retail job, and I apply at a tonne of other places with not even a call for an interview. It sucks. And full time employment, forget about it. So of course, money's quite tight, and my house is falling down around my ears, literally. I had a tarp on my front porch roof that has been there for about a year. But, I need to plug along, and take care of what I need to, because that's all I can do. Then, my DS11 needs braces because one of his teeth didn't come in, and this isn't covered by Bampot's benefits. Of course. Oh, and then Bampot decides to remove me from his benefits, so I no longer have dental or prescription coverage. Oh yea, rolling in the dough at Casa Scotty.
Needless to say, I have quite the load of external and uncontrollable issues that I am dealing with, and at the same time, it's me.
I have read enough on MB to know about Buyers Renters and Freeloaders, and I remember reading something about Plan B and how it changes a Buyer into a Renter, and it made perfect sense to me. Too bad that it isn't easy to get done. While Bampot was home, I didn't look at other men. I didn't find the need, at all. For 18 YEARS, Bampot was the center of my world as far as men were concerned. Now, I could tell you if a man was good looking, but it was in the same way I could judge a woman. There was never any interest or curiosity in regards to SF with any other man. I'm being completely serious. And many of my friends thought that I was weird, heck I was beginning to think that wasn't normal. Now, I realize that it was more because I was a Buyer, and here, it would have been considered normal.
Anyways, I have some conflicting emotions, as I have begun to feel attracted to men. There was a real war going on in me, because I felt like morally, still being married, I shouldn't be attracted to anyone. It's not anyone I really know. Some actors, strangers that I check out, etc. My boundaries are up high enough that I don't really have any relationships with members of the opposite sex. I'm not that worried about having a RA, since I don't present the opportunities for one. I am quite aware though that had I not found MB, I would have actually probably already had my own A. SHUDDER.
So, the funny thing is that my inner war is that if I am to even fantasize about a guy, and he isn't Bampot, I feel like I am "cheating" on him. Ridiculous? I dunno, but it's what I'm at war with. I need to reconcile my feelings about everything going on with me. I had always found pride in the fact that I had only had SF with Bampot. Now, the reality is that that is going to be taken away from me. I don't want to be alone forever, and I don't think that I should be. I have a lot to offer someone in the future. Just sucks that I have to wait about 10 MORE YEARS. ARGH. That makes me angry too. Bampot gets to go around trying to fill his ENs and mine go unfilled. BOOGERS. I hate that. It's not fair. He was the one who chose to commit adultery, and I'm the one that needs to sit home, alone and take care of the kids. I want to feel protected. I want to be loved the way only a mate can. I want to have that partner. That rock to lean on. That person who cares for me. It's not all fantasy, I had it. And now he has gone and given it to someone else. And he has probably fixed any of the things that I used to complain about, and now he does them for her. That gals me.
I am clearly on a down of the Plan B coaster, and I expect that a lot of changes will occur. As with a lot of people dealing with change, you gotta get to a real low point before you effect change.
I honestly thought I would be much further along in all of this by now. I thought that my career path would have been clear. In the beginning of Plan B, I felt like I could achieve anything, and now, I have gotten into the normalcy of life, and I want something different.
So, I think you all can understand where I'm at with posting on MB for a bit. I just need to get my stuff together so I can help others. It's like what they tell you on planes. I need to put the Oxygen mask on myself before I can help anyone else.
On the Bampot front. Last week, I was walking down my stairs about 630pm, and I heard the special ring for Bampot on the landline. Then, he left a message. It was for the boys, but I deleted, and they didn't even know he left it. It was something about him taking them hiking the next day, I didn't really listen to it. Just enough to know that it wasn't for me, but I was shocked because he hadn't left a message on the answering machine since Plan B first started, and I had to unplug the machine.
Then, yesterday, being Father's Day, the boys had a visit with Bampot. DS9 made him a card and a paper with words to describe Bampot. He came home from the visit and told me that Bampot liked it so much that he cried. That tugged at me a bit. But it doesn't change the fact that Bampot is still a wayward, and so far gone that he probably doesn't know what light looks like anymore.
So, today, I come home from my last specialist appt and there is a message on the machine. I press play, and I hear someone talking, funny, I didn't recognize his voice, until I heard the context of the message and realized he was leaving it for ME. Something about changing his work schedule, and wanting to give me notice when he got it, I don't know what else was said, since I hit delete as soon as I realized what it was, and who it was from. WTH? I don't need anything else plopped on top of my steaming pile right now. ARGH.
I need strength. Those prayers for Walls and Doors sure has turned out much differently than I had expected.
Did anyone actually make it to the end of this long post? Tehehehe. I'm always around, popping in and out, and when I see something I can help with, I will. You guys are amazing, and I'll be back around again in no time. Take care everyone. I'm living La Vida Loca over here but it will get better. I'm gonna make sure of that.
oh dear, scotty, i just caught up on your thread. i'm so sorry to hear about your health scare, which is still ongoing, is that right? no diagnosis as yet? a health scare is, well, scary! and you're the only real parent your DDs have, so take good care of yourself. plus, we need ya round these parts! (smile!)
don't beat yourself up on looking at other men who are attractive. i have quite the schoolgirl crush on that australian fella who plays thor :*) he is, however, many years my junior and certainly no threat to my marriage. i know what you mean about IRL though. i can't remember the last time i looked at a flesh and blood man and thought anything at all. all my lusty feelings go to H. just like BP was the centre of your world once, too. and you will have someone again, who will love and cherish you like you deserve.
i know you lost a ton of weight while on the infidelity diet. have you put some back on? i am what they call a yo-yo. i don't believe in dieting. but my weight fluctuates about every 8-10 years or so. small, big, small, big. right now i'm at big (erg) but i have hopes for the other side to swing back soon.
don't worry about the house. unless you've got holes, it's not too big a deal. maybe tackle one little thing at a time? like the porch, for instance. you don't need to think, "gee, i've gotta redo that whole roof." you can take that big task and break it into several smaller ones. then, just do one at a time, every couple of months or whathaveyou. it'll give your boys a hoot being big men with hammers and nails! (i can just picture you up on a ladder!)
why oh why is BP not using the IM? have you discussed this with her?
i made it to the end :O)
{{{{{{scotty}}}}}}}
ps: sorry, wait a sec. can BP legally remove you from his insurance? you're still his legal wife. does canada allow that? and if so, that is BOOGERS!
Thanx Letty. I am kinda around, and kinda not. I pop in about once ever few days at minimum(I used to be here like ALL the time, ). I catch up on some threads, and try to help out when I can, but my heart's not in it like it used to be.
Health scare is still ongoing. Dunno what is causing the pain, and it makes me angry. I'm too afraid of heights to tackle the roof, and unfortunately, it needs to be completely replaced, wood and all. It had been leaking for YEARS, long before Bampot left.
Why Bampot refuses to use the IM is just because he's still a typical wayward. He still needs to feel in control.
Muppet brain working on overheated cylinders. This summer is sooooooooooo hot. I'm not liking it, at all.
Letty, I emailed the insurance company and they emailed back that I am still on the plan. I dunno how long I will remain on his plan, so a F/T job of my own, with my own benefits is a must right now. And it's something I'm working on.
K, are you serious? "Nice"? It's bloody hotttttttttt. Temps of 34-37 with humidex values in the mid-high 40's that's ridiculous. But with the winter we had, not surprising at all. And with my Scottish/N.Italian/Serbian ancestry, I believe I'm made for cooler climates. I need to move to Australia for the summers, Caracal, you ready for a visitor? Or maybe I'll just move to Scotland.
crazy weather everywhere. only 70 degrees in los angeles in JULY? and you would not like oz summers at all - very hot and humid, right cara? oh wait, did you mean northern summer?
thanks for popping into jenn's thread. dr appt this week?
It's not fair what any of us have been put through. It sucks. Just try to be the best Scotland you can be.
One improvement I've recently made to my life is buying a vegetable juicer. Green juice is great for weight loss and overall health. You should try it!
Lexxxy, thanx for the thought, but it wasn't damage caused by anything except time, and sun. South facing house means that that porch roof gets MAXIMUM sun all day long.
TE, YUCK YUCK YUCK on that green juice. I tried some, and
Mmmm, I'm intrigued too. I remember drinking some sort of juice in Cambodia that had lemongrass in it and was divine. So lemon and ginger... give us the recipe!
Hi Scotty, catching up on everyone's threads and I noted your comment about visiting Australia during summer (hopefully you meant Nthn Hemisphere time). If you don't like the heat and humidity summer is not a good time to visit ... temps in high 30's C - 40's C and very humid. Autumn and Spring are better times to visit.
I meant summer here, so winter in Aus. But, if I move to the Scottish Highlands, I wouldn't need to worry about it.
My DS12 is doing fabulously, but my DS9, he's missing Bampot more than he has in a long while. I don't know what it is about. He came to me crying 3 times this week saying that he misses daddy. I held him, told him that I could see that he loved his father very much, and asked him if he wanted to call, or email his dad. He refused, because he figured that Bampot wouldn't answer the phone, and he would become more saddened by that than he already was.
I'm at a weird place in PB. When I first began PB, I felt like I could take on the world. I was surviving once of my most feared experiences in my life. My husband had an affair and left me and my children for the OW. I thought that I could change EVERYTHING in my life, and make it so much better. Don't get me wrong, I have achieved a lot in PB, but seeing where I am 2.5 years later, I feel like I haven't done enough. I feel like I should have changed more.
I think that it is because so much is changing when PB starts, but soon, you get into a routine, and things settle down. It's not necessarily bad. It just doesn't feel like enough to me. I need another big change. I feel the need to make my life better. And, it has NOTHING to do with Bampot, which is AMAZING in itself.
I was telling my boxing trainer yesterday that a part of me feels like I have wasted the last 2.5 years, but maybe it's more that I am healed from the betrayal, and am ready to stop being the wounded bird. I'm ready to live a GLORIOUS life, and my current one doesn't measure up. KWIM?
I have made so many memories that don't have a thing to do with Bampot. I have made friends, who only know the PB me. There are a lot of changes that I have made, I know that, I see them, but they aren't enough. I'm ready to have and be more. Now, if only i could figure out how to make it all possible.
BTW, Smilingwoman(haven't seen you around lately but maybe you will read this), you'll be happy to read that I CAN see myself dating someone in the future, and being happy with him. Even happier than I was with Bampot. Obviously, not before I was divorced, and for a while after that still, but I see the possibility. That is a HUGE improvement for me. And one I am glad happened. I guess PB worked in changing me from a buyer to a renter in my marriage. Just like it is supposed to. For some of us, it just takes longer.
BTW, Smilingwoman(haven't seen you around lately but maybe you will read this), you'll be happy to read that I CAN see myself dating someone in the future, and being happy with him. Even happier than I was with Bampot. Obviously, not before I was divorced, and for a while after that still, but I see the possibility. That is a HUGE improvement for me. And one I am glad happened. I guess PB worked in changing me from a buyer to a renter in my marriage. Just like it is supposed to. For some of us, it just takes longer.
This made tears spring to my eyes. I am very happy to see you at this point. I agree with no dating until the divorce is final....and I don't believe it was 'wrong' of you to need 2 1/2 years to get here....I can tell you life post divorce from a cheater CAN be wonderful. I never knew it was possible to be this happy in a marriage. And that is even with the bumps and rollercoaster of being in a blended family.
seeing where I am 2.5 years later, I feel like I haven't done enough. I feel like I should have changed more.
I think that it is because so much is changing when PB starts, but soon, you get into a routine, and things settle down. It's not necessarily bad. It just doesn't feel like enough to me. I need another big change. I feel the need to make my life better. And, it has NOTHING to do with Bampot, which is AMAZING in itself.
I was telling my boxing trainer yesterday that a part of me feels like I have wasted the last 2.5 years, but maybe it's more that I am healed from the betrayal, and am ready to stop being the wounded bird. I'm ready to live a GLORIOUS life, and my current one doesn't measure up. KWIM?
You've done a huge amount of work in Plan B. You have been healing yourself and your boys single handedly. I am sure that felt like a struggle and achievement at the lowest points.
Now I think you are feeling something is lacking. Its not because you havent achieved enough, but because the struggle to heal is not so strong. There is nothing to achieve RIGHT NOW so you're bored BECAUSE of how well you've done not because you should have done better.
I am the same way right now. Bored and ready for the next stage. I think healing without kids is slightly quicker and I also have zero patience. I also thing SLs neglect of the marriage in the run up to the A had something to do with it.
You've made a horrendous situation workable and joyous. Your kids trust you with their hearts and deepest sorrows. they have learned from you how to deal with them. You have grown and changed into a formidable but tender woman. You can spot a phoney a mile off. You've nagged countless people INCLUDING ME into Plan B. we love ya Scot. You are a hero.
This made tears spring to my eyes. I am very happy to see you at this point. I agree with no dating until the divorce is final....and I don't believe it was 'wrong' of you to need 2 1/2 years to get here....I can tell you life post divorce from a cheater CAN be wonderful. I never knew it was possible to be this happy in a marriage. And that is even with the bumps and rollercoaster of being in a blended family.
Good for you Scotty!
Scotty, I'm "truthfully" happy to see your growth. You are an inspiration for women who are just beginning their journey into Plan B and a living testament that it takes as long as it takes. I know you got some gave you flack but IMO you are a poster child for doing a proper plan B and coming out on the other side a better person. I'm sorry you're having health issues, that bites! You've helped sooooo many people, members and lurkers alike. Post when you can, a little bit of Scotty is better than no Scotty. ((((Scotty))))
I was telling my boxing trainer yesterday that a part of me feels like I have wasted the last 2.5 years, but maybe it's more that I am healed from the betrayal, and am ready to stop being the wounded bird. I'm ready to live a GLORIOUS life, and my current one doesn't measure up. KWIM?
Bravo to you, Scotty! You are the definition of success in my book.
Okay guys, thanx for the tears first thing in the morning. Just popping in before boxing, and to give you guys a little HA.
On Sunday, DS12 was talking to me on the way to my mom's, and he said, "Daddy made us say Bye to THEM today. He says that SHE thinks that we don't like her. I said Bye, but they didn't hear me, and when Daddy asked me to say it again, I told him no." DS9 said, "And I told Daddy that I don't say Bye." Then DS12 told me that he doesn't like OW. I told him that he should be honest with his dad, but I understand that he doesn't want to get him mad.
I just think that it is awful that Bampot felt the need to use his children to reassure OW. Really? A 12 YO and 9YO need to reassure a 35 YO? Of course my children don't like her. They're smart and good boys. I guess the fantasy bubble is popping a little, and that makes me laugh. Really, what did she expect? Oh wait, I know. The same as every other wayward expects. That the children and everyone around them will be okay with it, since they're in lurve. HAHAHAHA
I was telling my boxing trainer yesterday that a part of me feels like I have wasted the last 2.5 years, but maybe it's more that I am healed from the betrayal, and am ready to stop being the wounded bird. I'm ready to live a GLORIOUS life, and my current one doesn't measure up. KWIM?
Bravo to you, Scotty! You are the definition of success in my book.
Reminds me of Shindlers list in the end, when he was brought out of the fog and caring about the people, and his eyes were opened wider than they ever were before
He holds up his gold watch and says he could have bougten another one
You were never as fake and frivolous as Shindler, but you did and continue to recognize wealth and it's purpose
I'm at a weird place in PB. When I first began PB, I felt like I could take on the world. I was surviving once of my most feared experiences in my life. My husband had an affair and left me and my children for the OW. I thought that I could change EVERYTHING in my life, and make it so much better. Don't get me wrong, I have achieved a lot in PB, but seeing where I am 2.5 years later, I feel like I haven't done enough. I feel like I should have changed more.
I think that it is because so much is changing when PB starts, but soon, you get into a routine, and things settle down. It's not necessarily bad. It just doesn't feel like enough to me. I need another big change. I feel the need to make my life better. And, it has NOTHING to do with Bampot, which is AMAZING in itself.
I was telling my boxing trainer yesterday that a part of me feels like I have wasted the last 2.5 years, but maybe it's more that I am healed from the betrayal, and am ready to stop being the wounded bird. I'm ready to live a GLORIOUS life, and my current one doesn't measure up. KWIM?
I personally see such amazing growth in you as a woman, a mother, a friend that I am inspired by you. Plus, the physical changes of weight loss and getting into shape...WOWZERS. You, my dear, are beautiful truly beautiful. I think you are just now seeing that you have wings to spread and that is the restlessness or need to do more that you are feeling. Your wings are no longer clipped by Bampot so fly sweet Scotty!
Yeah to add to what Faith said You can fly now, it's OK
Thinking about how even when we think we have braved it all, suffered enough, and now we deserve to be loved as we love,
Yet there is more that comes and squashs us down?
Many special souls like you Scotty have been through Hell, and yet you still shine without the bitterness. The bitterness that comes from the enemy of God and all things holy and good.
It's our love we have to give that is so devalued, that hurts us so deep. What is our worth we think when that gets rejected? The best we can do is cast out?
You have risen above
"For those who wait upon the Lord shall rise on wings like Eagles. They shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint"
I can not thank you all enough for all you helped me with, and continue to offer me, in friendship. You all are absolutely AWES-MAZING.
You probably don't count me as a friend Scotty but regardless of the times I've disagreed with your view of things I still very much wish for you to have a happy outcome.
You probably don't count me as a friend Scotty but regardless of the times I've disagreed with your view of things I still very much wish for you to have a happy outcome.
Her view of things has been that she intends to follow MB concepts and not date while she is married. She is now explaining that following Dr. H's concepts has been her healthiest avenue. Why have YOU disagreed with her?
You probably don't count me as a friend Scotty but regardless of the times I've disagreed with your view of things I still very much wish for you to have a happy outcome.
Her view of things has been that she intends to follow MB concepts and not date while she is married. She is now explaining that following Dr. H's concepts has been her healthiest avenue. Why have YOU disagreed with her?
Possibly for the same reasons I did at certain times, mb. I guess I would call it pure ignorance on my part (and it was) for the times I butted heads with Scotty. She never really berated me but tried to educate me on the true purpose of Plan B on G's thread as I didn't have a true understanding of it. I thought I did, but I was wrong. Because of her taking the time to correct, and explain it to me, I now do. Of course, Melody did as well, so I should thank her as well while I'm at it.
Scotty, so happy you are where you are now. I went back and read the first few pages of your thread just to get a pulse on how far you have come in the past 2.5 years+. It's quite extraordinary and you truly are a success story. I wish you so much deserved happiness and success in your future.
Possibly for the same reasons I did at certain times, mb.
Wes, Scotty has never veered from her decision to stand for her marriage. SW has disagreed with her decsion. That is what my post is about.
Ah, gotcha. It's been quite a few months since I read Scotty's thread beginning to end, and I do recall you being engaged in it, so I'll leave it at that. I was spitballing, and I guess I missed.
Anyway, I just wanted to take this op to reach out to you Scotty and give you a job well done kudos.
Possibly for the same reasons I did at certain times, mb.
Wes, Scotty has never veered from her decision to stand for her marriage. SW has disagreed with her decsion. That is what my post is about.
It has been a matter of how long. As Scotty said earlier to me it takes some longer than others. I stood for my marriage too (26 years) but gave it up when it became clear to me it could not be saved. Maybe others would have stuck it out longer. How long one sticks it out is not strickly regulated by Dr. Harley. So I didn't feel I was going against Dr. Harley when I had an opinion about moving on. I'm glad Scotty is at the 'moving on' point....well, as she said she isn't divorced yet but she can now see herself happy with someone else someday. That is all I want for her and for anyone who suffers infidelity where the marriage cannot be saved.
You probably don't count me as a friend Scotty but regardless of the times I've disagreed with your view of things I still very much wish for you to have a happy outcome.
Her view of things has been that she intends to follow MB concepts and not date while she is married. She is now explaining that following Dr. H's concepts has been her healthiest avenue. Why have YOU disagreed with her?
And to be clear I have NEVER disagreed with her decision to not date while married.
So glad for you, Scotty, coming to the point where you are taking control of your future! It's nice to see that the cocoon of plan B has helped you prepare for the next stage.
About the goodbye to OW...waywards never change on this. My dad is wayward, has been since he left my mom for the teenage babysitter when I was three months old. And he's on his third wife now. A few years ago, he didn't think I was appreciative enough of my step-mom one Christmas and got all huffy about how she made my kids a homemade present (nothing to me personally, I might add) and I should have gotten her something personal. I got them something as a joint gift. Didn't mention the fact that I had made awesome homemade presents for years for her and she barely ever acknowledged it. Anyways...I would just prepare your kids as best as possible that he's never going to change about putting OW's feelings above their own, even his PERCEPTION of OW's feelings.
The people who had me defending my positions also helped me immensely. Having to defend my choices, here on my thread, helped me sort out many of the thoughts and feelings that I was having at the time. Also, MANY people have had me defending my choices IRL, and doing it here helped present it to them in a grand way as well.
SW, I don't think that anyone suggested that you were advocating dating while still married. I sure don't remember you ever taking that stance. You did press me on choices I was making, but again, if you didn't have me examining my choices, I wouldn't be able to defend them as well as I can.
I think it's awful that I still am having the "dating while separated" debate over and over again IRL. It's quite sickening, but I understand that some people make that choice, and they feel the need to defend it, and in a lot of ways, by me making a different choice, it makes them examine what THEY themselves are doing. Just yesterday, I had this same debate with a person I box with. One of the other women I box with is recently separated, and she has decided that she would like to date soon(in Canada, you can't divorce for 1 year after separation). So this friend of hers was pressing me on why I'm not dating. I simply said, "I'm married." She said, "You're separated." I replied with, "Yes, and that means still married." Then I said, "When you date someone who is willing to date a married woman, you are looking a lot lower than the quality person whom I would want to date, after I am divorced, of course." That shut her up. What was she supposed to say to that?
I didn't get the Full Time position I applied for. Looks like the wall I keep beating my head against got thicker. Gotta find my door.
I am soooooo antsy. I need to improve my life more.
And of course, I have been a bigger presence on MB again lately. Can't stay away. It was such a lifeline for me in my darkest days. I'm not gonna be around as much as I was, but I'm always lurking. So, any of you Plan Bers that think you'll get away with something, remember, Mama Bear Scotty is always watching. HEHEHEHEHEHE
hey scottie. i thought this was a good quote for MB, but wasn't really sure where to post it! since your sig line has the one about walls and doors, i thought i'd put it here. feel free to repost it where necessary
When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long, and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us. --alexander graham bell
Last week, had I posted, I would have been very sad, and stressed. Adding to my personal and health stuff, more financial strains got slammed onto me. I couldn't see through the rumble that I felt my life had become. ARGH.
Today, however, it is a bit different. There is ALWAYS a GRAND plan. One that we do NOT see ourselves at first, and sometimes NEVER. I am learning to look at the pluses, instead of dwell on the stresses.
My financial strains are still there, only I am not looking at them in a negative light, but an opportunity. GREAT changes are going to come, because the only way we change is to hit a rough patch and not want to live there anymore. I'm choosing the HIGH road.
Now, with these financial strains, I have found out how many people truly and dearly care for me. Even people that I didn't think of as caring too much about me have offered their help. It's been a GREAT learning experience.
Yesterday, I had a manager at work take me into the office and tell me that with everything that happened with Bampot, I have come out of it showing true strength and grace. I gave MB the props, stating that I wouldn't have been able to do it without the plans, and all of you, when she pointed out that I CHOSE to follow the plans, it wasn't just the site that brought me to where I am today. How true is that? There are so many people who come here and choose NOT to follow the plans at all, or pick and choose. So, yes, that does show true strength. I hope others will find their strength to do that as well.
Today, I actually had TWO women tell me how great I have been looking lately. How I have looked well put together, I have been smiling, and radiating light. WOW. Did that ever make me feel good.
And the fact that I didn't get the F/T job last month has actually worked out for the best. FUnny that. HAHAHAHA
The last few weeks have been somewhat trying. There have been actual thoughts of breaking it. Only because I have been having IM issues, and sometimes, the thought comes through that it might be easier to just do it myself, and save any hassle. I honestly don't know what's going on with my IM. A few months back, I found out from my IM that she wasn't receiving all of the emails Bampot and I were sending, so she changed the email addy, and it seemed to work fine, for a couple of days. Then, I needed to send a message a few weeks ago, and I heard nothing back. I need Bampot to write a letter giving me permission to take the boys to the States. We're going to Disney for a couple of weeks, on the 10th. Well, I didn't receive a response, and since it was time sensitive, I asked for a confirmation that she received my email. I heard nothing. So, I sent an email to her personal email address. I still heard nothing. I leaned on Indie as an emergency IM to send the message. She has been a great help. I'm not sure what has happened with my IM, I hope she is okay. Without her, my Plan B wouldn't have existed, and I wouldn't have healed as well as I did. I thank her for EVERYTHING she did.
I won't break Plan B. I will find a new IM. But, in my keeping with honesty, I wanted to show other Plan Bers that there are times when even a seasoned Plan Ber wants to throw in the towel. It's a normal reaction, but sticking with MB and Plan B is ALWAYS the best choice.
Lately, my DS9 has been missing Bampot something fierce. He cries. He can't sleep. I don't know why it came on as suddenly as it has, maybe he realises that daddy isn't coming home. I think he's still grieving his family. Tuesday night, he came to my room about midnight, and he was crying. He just kept saying that he missed daddy. He told me that he tried to call, but that it just went to VM. I then told him that he could email Bampot if he wanted. He did. I was at work on Wednesday, and DS9 called me on my break. He was crying again, saying that he tried to call Bampot again but that he didn't call him back yet. I told him that I was sorry and he could email him again. He phoned me back a few minutes later and said that Bampot called him right after I hung up, and he was going to come and get the boys for a couple of hours after work. Bampot has NEVER spent time with the boys other than the weekend visits. He took them out for mini putt. DS9 said that although he had fun, he still misses his dad. I'll get him through this, as I have, it's just trying. ARGH.
I have also had to change my shifts at work, so I can get more hours. I feel really guilty because I need to leave my kids home alone more often, and I am most likely going to have to work a lot of evening shifts, so I won't be there for homework, etc. And fingers crossed that DS9 doesn't have difficulties in school. He has the same teacher that he had when I began my Plan B, and she wasn't able to deal with him.
Well, life continues, with it's small hiccups, but it is definitely better than the alternative.
I won't break Plan B. I will find a new IM. But, in my keeping with honesty, I wanted to show other Plan Bers that there are times when even a seasoned Plan Ber wants to throw in the towel. It's a normal reaction, but sticking with MB and Plan B is ALWAYS the best choice.
You know I had a similar episode recently. When my divorce process hit the rocks, adrenaline just took over and I wanted to wade in and sort it out personally.
It's at times like those that Plan B feels limiting. But having calmed down, I havent torn a breach in a plan and I am so grateful for keeping a cool head.
It seems strange that you need his permission to go. Is that because you are still married? Is it worth getting a lawyer's advice? Can anyone here suggest a way around this?
It's because I am going to a different country, and there have been MANY kidnappings of children, so the US government wants to ensure that I have his permission to take the children out of Canada.
Scotty, sorry for all the stressors you are facing, especially the difficult balance of a working mom. Are there any after school tutoring or programs your 9 year old could do? Mine are going to a Taekwondo and at has the added benefits of good male role models.
When I asked my emergency IM(Indie) to shoot off an email, I spelled Bampot's email address wrong. Hopefully, he moves on this, and sends me the letter this week, since I leave on Monday.
Hopefully we won't have any more hurricanes to spoil your trip! Though last week it was nice to have a bonus day off with my kids (thankfully my work got closed...though they didn't make the decision until 5pm so I was already scrambling since school decided to cancel earlier in the day).
Keeping you in my thoughts, family vacations are such a wonderful thing!
Sorry BH. I just saw this post now. The trip was AMAZING. The trip of a lifetime. We went to Universal, so I could see Harry Potter, for 2 days. We went to Cocoa Beach. We went to see Cape Canaveral. St.Petersberg to spot dolphins and snorkel in the Gulf of Mexico. Legoland was a trip. Then, the last four days were spent in each of the Disney parks. An awesome, but tiring trip.
It was a complete surprise for my boys. They saw the airport and got both excited and scared(DS9 was refusing to go on the plane until we told him where we were going).
Phew, what a wild ride the last 3 years have been. I remember the sheer devastation I felt as I searched through the internet for anything that made sense, and thankfully, 3 years ago, this very day, I stumbled upon this site, and it saved much of my sanity, and quite possibly my life. I can see that I would have gotten to a very bad place if not for the wonderful people that post on this site. I made some mistakes, but I learned from them, and have been able to pass on advice to others.
There isn't much to update about Bampot, as it should be. I read a lot, and although I am part time at my workplace, this is our busy time of year, so I have been working full time hours. I feel quite guilty having to leave the boys home alone, especially as I have been working mostly afternoons(getting home about midnight), but that's the life of single mother with 2 young sons. The boys seem much better about it than I do, which makes it a bit easier to handle. Sometimes though, I really get angry with how my life turned out. I don't dwell on it though. Just deal with it and get on with living life.
I was turned down for another promotion at work, which I have been told repeatedly, by numerous managers, that I would be perfect for. Apparently, I am "snarky" at times. Well, that's true, but it's usually in response to someone else's snarkiness. That's okay, I already knew that this job wasn't for me, and now that I can leave the kidlets home alone, I can figure out something better for me. Ready to find that DOOR wince I keep bumping against this WALL.
I'm spending some time, catching up on all of the threads I have missed, and watching my children carve up some pumpkins. YAY Hallowe'en. And to any of my friends out there who were worried about our safety here, due to Hurricane Sandy, we only received rain and wind. A few trees fell down, and basements were flooded, but we were otherwise unharmed. Thank you all for your concern.
Phew, what a wild ride the last 3 years have been. I remember the sheer devastation I felt as I searched through the internet for anything that made sense, and thankfully, 3 years ago, this very day, I stumbled upon this site, and it saved much of my sanity, and quite possibly my life. I can see that I would have gotten to a very bad place if not for the wonderful people that post on this site. I made some mistakes, but I learned from them, and have been able to pass on advice to others.
There isn't much to update about Bampot, as it should be. I read a lot, and although I am part time at my workplace, this is our busy time of year, so I have been working full time hours. I feel quite guilty having to leave the boys home alone, especially as I have been working mostly afternoons(getting home about midnight), but that's the life of single mother with 2 young sons. The boys seem much better about it than I do, which makes it a bit easier to handle. Sometimes though, I really get angry with how my life turned out. I don't dwell on it though. Just deal with it and get on with living life.
I was turned down for another promotion at work, which I have been told repeatedly, by numerous managers, that I would be perfect for. Apparently, I am "snarky" at times. Well, that's true, but it's usually in response to someone else's snarkiness. That's okay, I already knew that this job wasn't for me, and now that I can leave the kidlets home alone, I can figure out something better for me. Ready to find that DOOR wince I keep bumping against this WALL.
I'm spending some time, catching up on all of the threads I have missed, and watching my children carve up some pumpkins. YAY Hallowe'en. And to any of my friends out there who were worried about our safety here, due to Hurricane Sandy, we only received rain and wind. A few trees fell down, and basements were flooded, but we were otherwise unharmed. Thank you all for your concern.
Scotty, so good to hear your update. I think you should put this on your original thread. You have shown your young sons a mother with perserverance - they can't help but be better by being with you. I am excited for their lives after seeing your consistently faithful behavior over the past few years. Good for you - and them!
I know you've been busy, but I hope you keep posting here. Your voice is soooo needed - a faithful spouse who stays the course and honors their vows, even after their wayward so damages their marriage.
Well, there is some very sad and devastating news I wanted to share with you all. My daddy passed away on November 3rd of a heart attack. He found out on October 18th that he had blocked arteries, and when he went for stents on October 31st. While there, they told him that he would need bypass surgery instead. He passed away 3 days later. Needless to say, it has been a rough 8 days in Scotty's world.
One thing I would really like to share with you all is that my mom is a wreck, and one of the recurring themes is that she wishes that she didn't cause the pain to my dad that she did when she had her affair, and how she wished that she had more time to make up for it all. This is the FIRST time I have seen real remorse from her about her affair. That is really sad for me, because I know that she can never feel like she made up for all of the pain she caused. She has apologized to me for not realizing before about the pain that I went through when I separated from Bampot, as it is similar to a death, and we grieve.
One foot in front of the other, one day at a time. That is how I am taking it. Although, I am feeling awfully guilty that I don't feel more upset about my dad's passing. It's not the same sort of raw pain that Bampot's affair had on me. It's a little strange to me. Typical me, always hardest on myself.
Well, there is some very sad and devastating news I wanted to share with you all. My daddy passed away on November 3rd of a heart attack. He found out on October 18th that he had blocked arteries, and when he went for stents on October 31st. While there, they told him that he would need bypass surgery instead. He passed away 3 days later. Needless to say, it has been a rough 8 days in Scotty's world.
One thing I would really like to share with you all is that my mom is a wreck, and one of the recurring themes is that she wishes that she didn't cause the pain to my dad that she did when she had her affair, and how she wished that she had more time to make up for it all. This is the FIRST time I have seen real remorse from her about her affair. That is really sad for me, because I know that she can never feel like she made up for all of the pain she caused. She has apologized to me for not realizing before about the pain that I went through when I separated from Bampot, as it is similar to a death, and we grieve.
One foot in front of the other, one day at a time. That is how I am taking it. Although, I am feeling awfully guilty that I don't feel more upset about my dad's passing. It's not the same sort of raw pain that Bampot's affair had on me. It's a little strange to me. Typical me, always hardest on myself.
My deepest sympathy Scotty for you and your DSs and your family.
So sorry for your families loss. It's sad your mother's realization came too late...was she able to express anything to your father before he passed? Peace to you and your boys.
Please don't feel guilty. The loss of a good man to death is a tragedy, but we can have faith that it isn't forever.
The loss of a good man to a bad man is more devastating, because left unchecked, the loss of that will last forever.
So really, it's because of your faith that these two losses have hit you differently. You have an understanding of the deeper issue involved, of dying with Christ vs. living without Him. I'm so sorry about your dad, and thankful that you'll see him again.
Please don't feel guilty. The loss of a good man to death is a tragedy, but we can have faith that it isn't forever.
The loss of a good man to a bad man is more devastating, because left unchecked, the loss of that will last forever.
So really, it's because of your faith that these two losses have hit you differently. You have an understanding of the deeper issue involved, of dying with Christ vs. living without Him. I'm so sorry about your dad, and thankful that you'll see him again.
Neak, I think you hit it right on the head. I also told my mom that it's a lot harder for her to deal with my father's passing because he was a part of her everyday life, where he wasn't like that for me. Bampot was a part of my everyday, so removing him from that seemed to bring up many more triggers than my father's passing. I'm not my usual self, but I'm not as bad off as I was last week. Progress not perfection.
You, your boys and family are in my thoughts and prayers. You are an amazing mother and I know you will do everything to help your boys come to terms with and grieve the loss of their grandfather. Their love will also give you the strength you will need during the coming days and months ahead.
I think Neak summed it up nicely. It is a different type loss and the way we grieve and our emotions can be different. Be gentle on yourself .... although I understand to well how you feel. Isildur's current actions overshadow my grieving procees for my mother.
Thank you for sharing your mother's thoughts and feelings, it helps having this perspective.
Thank you all for the birthday wishes. First birthday without my dad, and it was hard, as I expected. There were some bright moments, and I got to spend time with the close family that I have left. Christmas is going to be hard as well.
catching up on threads, and am sorry to see i have to wish you good birthday tidings at the same time as expressing sorrow for your loss, scotty. i'm so sorry.
I am sure that there are very many people who wonder why Scottie stopped posting a year ago. I myself sincerely hope that she and her children are ok and that She has found happiness. She has been an inspiration to so many. A really wonderful person. If anyone has info on her please post.
I finally got done reading every post in this thread.
Mrs. Scotty,
You have been an eternal example of moralistic fortitude.
I send my sympathies to you, at this one year point of your Dads passing away.
Has the job situation changed by now?
How are your dsx2 doing, along with the puppy, Scooch?
My S-10 is dealing as well as can be expected, except my WW has not even been in touch with him in 9 1/2 months now..... Not even by phone or e-mail, so i too have to be both the Father and Mother figure. It makes for a busy life.
Do your boys and yourself continue the boxing physical fitness training?
I have had my Son enrolled in martial arts for the past 19 months with lessons 3X per week and i am sure it helps with his self esteem.
I hope you had your front porch roof repaired by friends or family by now.
I feel like i have gotten to know you so well over the past 6 days reading your trials and tribulations.
God Bless You. You are an extraordinary Mother and a Grace Filled Person.
Well it has been a year of silence on my part because I no longer feel worthy enough to post on MB. I am biting the bullet and posting my update anyways because that is who I am. Lol
Firstly I am still in a dark Plan B and I have MB to thank for the personal recovery I was able to make. Marriage Builders and Dr H are a Godsend and I will be forever grateful to all of the people who helped me. I have met some of the most wonderful and amazingly strong people from this site and I will never forget what MB has meant(and continues to mean) to me. I would suggest this site, DrH's books and any other resource suggested in this site to anyone dealing with the pain of infidelity.
Second, my DSx2 are marvelous young men. They have been through so much and continue to shine through it all. I am so blessed to have them. And our puppy Scooch is as mischievous as ever. we need to hide certain things from her or she will chew them up lol. She is a great part of our family and has brought us much joy.
Thirdly on the job front. Well.......I was promoted to the manager position I was turned down for last year. it was offered to me in February and I started in March. While it brought in more by the hour my hours were cut so the change wasn't worth it and in July when hours were cut yet again to 12 per week I finally had enough and gave my two weeks. It was a frightening time because I didn't know how I would be feeding my children. I applied to everything available and had a few interviews. I am pleased to announce that on the 13th day of my 2 week notice I was hired by a wonderful company where I ciuldnt be happier. I am appreciated for a job well done and that is all I have ever wanted. My first day of training also happened to be my dad's birthday. The first one I had to spend without him. I have the firm belief that he had some hand in that door opening for me.
Now, to get to the reason I feel unworthy to offer advice on Marriage Builders anymore. While I have decided that my marriage is truly and utterly over, I am still legally married. just over 8 months ago I was in a very down place. I decided to go online to chat with strangers to make myself feel better. I had not been on a chatroom in many years although I enjoyed them so much in the past. I was on there for 4 days when a man caught my eye. I had every intention of NOT letting my walls down. We all know what happens if we dont keep vigilant with our boundaries. I fell in love. And he fell in love with me. He is a BS as well. He walked in on his WW with the neighbour. He packed up his things the next morning and never looked back. He has been separated for more than 5 years. But separated is not divorced and we shouldn't be together until we are divorced. He truly does make me happy and he treats me so well. We started a long distance relationship and at the end of July he moved here to be with me. He has been living with the boys and I for just under 2 months now. The boys and he get along so well.
This is what makes me unworthy to offer such good people advice on here anymore. I fell off of the path that I laid down for myself. I so wanted to continue to be the good example I was in the previous 393 pages of this thread. We are both getting divorced ASAP but the fact remains that when our relationship started we were both married to other people.
And this year, on my wedding anniversary I almost let the day go by without a thought(there wasn't any pain this time) until I realised what day it was. I told my boyfriend to which I received silence. He also got married on that date only 5 years later. Weird.
I am so happy for you Scotty. Wish all happiness to you and your new partner. I am positive he knows what a wonderful woman he has. Take care and keep us posted. It will be appreciated.
Well it has been a year of silence on my part because I no longer feel worthy enough to post on MB. I am biting the bullet and posting my update anyways because that is who I am. Lol
Firstly I am still in a dark Plan B and I have MB to thank for the personal recovery I was able to make. Marriage Builders and Dr H are a Godsend and I will be forever grateful to all of the people who helped me. I have met some of the most wonderful and amazingly strong people from this site and I will never forget what MB has meant(and continues to mean) to me. I would suggest this site, DrH's books and any other resource suggested in this site to anyone dealing with the pain of infidelity.
Second, my DSx2 are marvelous young men. They have been through so much and continue to shine through it all. I am so blessed to have them. And our puppy Scooch is as mischievous as ever. we need to hide certain things from her or she will chew them up lol. She is a great part of our family and has brought us much joy.
Thirdly on the job front. Well.......I was promoted to the manager position I was turned down for last year. it was offered to me in February and I started in March. While it brought in more by the hour my hours were cut so the change wasn't worth it and in July when hours were cut yet again to 12 per week I finally had enough and gave my two weeks. It was a frightening time because I didn't know how I would be feeding my children. I applied to everything available and had a few interviews. I am pleased to announce that on the 13th day of my 2 week notice I was hired by a wonderful company where I ciuldnt be happier. I am appreciated for a job well done and that is all I have ever wanted. My first day of training also happened to be my dad's birthday. The first one I had to spend without him. I have the firm belief that he had some hand in that door opening for me.
Now, to get to the reason I feel unworthy to offer advice on Marriage Builders anymore. While I have decided that my marriage is truly and utterly over, I am still legally married. just over 8 months ago I was in a very down place. I decided to go online to chat with strangers to make myself feel better. I had not been on a chatroom in many years although I enjoyed them so much in the past. I was on there for 4 days when a man caught my eye. I had every intention of NOT letting my walls down. We all know what happens if we dont keep vigilant with our boundaries. I fell in love. And he fell in love with me. He is a BS as well. He walked in on his WW with the neighbour. He packed up his things the next morning and never looked back. He has been separated for more than 5 years. But separated is not divorced and we shouldn't be together until we are divorced. He truly does make me happy and he treats me so well. We started a long distance relationship and at the end of July he moved here to be with me. He has been living with the boys and I for just under 2 months now. The boys and he get along so well.
This is what makes me unworthy to offer such good people advice on here anymore. I fell off of the path that I laid down for myself. I so wanted to continue to be the good example I was in the previous 393 pages of this thread. We are both getting divorced ASAP but the fact remains that when our relationship started we were both married to other people.
And this year, on my wedding anniversary I almost let the day go by without a thought(there wasn't any pain this time) until I realised what day it was. I told my boyfriend to which I received silence. He also got married on that date only 5 years later. Weird.
Hey hon.
I kind of had a hunch from your FB page and your silence on here. I never messaged you to ask about it because I don't give unsolicited advice. Indeed you don't seem to be asking for advice now. I am only pleased that you are happy and hope this guy is half good enough for you.
Marriages which start while the partners are legally married are not the same as affairages which start out as a deception. I know you know that Dr H has made that distinction in the past. That doesn't make it a GOOD idea but I'm not going to set off any fire alarms over it as I would if it were a potential affairage.
I would have been intensely worried had you told me at the time that you were starting a dating search while still married and feeling down, but what's done is done.
I would have worried that you might attract someone who doesn't value marriage. The living together thing would also raise some alarms that he might not be a buyer. But I know you know enough about MB to filter these questions for yourself. Like I said you haven't really asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. It's your life.
No matter what has happened, you deserve to be happy. I think you've done a great job with your Plan B and you gave your marriage your best shot. It's not your fault the marriage ended and you shouldn't have to pay for someone else's mistake. I wish you all the best and I know you will use the tools that were given to you to make the best relationship possible with your new man. Take care of your self and thank you for all of your help when I was going through my situation.
Marriages which start while the partners are legally married are not the same as affairages which start out as a deception. I know you know that Dr H has made that distinction in the past. That doesn't make it a GOOD idea but I'm not going to set off any fire alarms over it as I would if it were a potential affairage.
I would have been intensely worried had you told me at the time that you were starting a dating search while still married and feeling down, but what's done is done.
I would have worried that you might attract someone who doesn't value marriage. The living together thing would also raise some alarms that he might not be a buyer. But I know you know enough about MB to filter these questions for yourself. Like I said you haven't really asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. It's your life.
MB is all about using a scientific approach to marriages in order to achieve a desired result - a happy relationship based on romantic love. The essence of this approach involves analyzing many relationships, and adopting the characteristics of those relationships that are successful. It all comes down to probabilities. You should try to do those things that give you the best chance. Starting a relationship before ending your prior marriage causes the probability of success to drop by a factor of four. That is very significant. Now, that doesn't mean you will fail, it just means that you are four times more likely to fail. So, where my sincere wish that this new relationship will be a successful one was represented by one chance in two before, it is now one chance in eight. It isn't about morality. It isn't about being good or bad. It is about giving yourself the very best shot at a good marriage.
Marriages which start while the partners are legally married are not the same as affairages which start out as a deception. I know you know that Dr H has made that distinction in the past. That doesn't make it a GOOD idea but I'm not going to set off any fire alarms over it as I would if it were a potential affairage.
I would have been intensely worried had you told me at the time that you were starting a dating search while still married and feeling down, but what's done is done.
I would have worried that you might attract someone who doesn't value marriage. The living together thing would also raise some alarms that he might not be a buyer. But I know you know enough about MB to filter these questions for yourself. Like I said you haven't really asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. It's your life.
MB is all about using a scientific approach to marriages in order to achieve a desired result - a happy relationship based on romantic love. The essence of this approach involves analyzing many relationships, and adopting the characteristics of those relationships that are successful. It all comes down to probabilities. You should try to do those things that give you the best chance. Starting a relationship before ending your prior marriage causes the probability of success to drop by a factor of four. That is very significant. Now, that doesn't mean you will fail, it just means that you are four times more likely to fail. So, where my sincere wish that this new relationship will be a successful one was represented by one chance in two before, it is now one chance in eight. It isn't about morality. It isn't about being good or bad. It is about giving yourself the very best shot at a good marriage.
To further complicate it, renter relationships are generally not healthy according to adr Harley. AND living together before marriage also lowers odds of marital success. I'm glad that you are doing well but I've noticed when people suddenly stop posting itsoften because they are doing something that won't be condoned here.
The boyfriend seems as clouded as some of the posters in the divorce and dating thread. There are several married people living with boyfriends and girlfriends in tgat thread now
Starting a relationship before ending your prior marriage causes the probability of success to drop by a factor of four. That is very significant. Now, that doesn't mean you will fail, it just means that you are four times more likely to fail. So, where my sincere wish that this new relationship will be a successful one was represented by one chance in two before, it is now one chance in eight.
That's a fascinating set of figures. Where are these statistics from? I was aware of the statistical failure of live-in relationships prior to marriage but not of relationships which start during separation.
Does the study take into account affairages or is it purely those who were separated but not divorced? Dr Harley says affairage relationships are 100 pc doomed, nothing he does to try and help them saves them.
The lesson to be taken from this thread is some great Plan B tips and also to MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES AROUND THE OPPOSITE SEX WHILE SEPARATED.
In this case, the poster had her emotional needs of conversation met in a chat room to the point that she fell in love. Marriage Builder forums disable direct communication between members to prevent betrayed spouses from communicating directly to avoid this scenerio.
I kind of had a hunch from your FB page and your silence on here. I never messaged you to ask about it because I don't give unsolicited advice. Indeed you don't seem to be asking for advice now. I am only pleased that you are happy and hope this guy is half good enough for you.
Marriages which start while the partners are legally married are not the same as affairages which start out as a deception. I know you know that Dr H has made that distinction in the past. That doesn't make it a GOOD idea but I'm not going to set off any fire alarms over it as I would if it were a potential affairage.
I would have been intensely worried had you told me at the time that you were starting a dating search while still married and feeling down, but what's done is done.
I would have worried that you might attract someone who doesn't value marriage. The living together thing would also raise some alarms that he might not be a buyer. But I know you know enough about MB to filter these questions for yourself. Like I said you haven't really asked for any advice, so I won't offer any. It's your life.
I have to echo what Miss Indiegirl has stated.
My only question I had is why the delay in the divorce? I know there is a waiting period, but that should be well past done. If financial reasons, well I think many of us can understand that.
The lesson to be taken from this thread is some great Plan B tips and also to MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES AROUND THE OPPOSITE SEX WHILE SEPARATED.
In this case, the poster had her emotional needs of conversation met in a chat room to the point that she fell in love. Marriage Builder forums disable direct communication between members to prevent betrayed spouses from communicating directly to avoid this scenerio.
I know that in this particular case Scotty was done with her marriage and trying to find a way to afford divorce. Divorce in her case would have left her without as much financial support at a time when she was in dire straits.
It wasn't that she was waiting for her H to return, as is usual with Plan Bers who are still married.
I didn't necessarily think it was a good plan because she is human and I felt she would naturally start to crave companionship when she wasn't dedicated to following a recovery plan. I felt that if she was done, she should divorce.
I am sure she would agree with me now, and wishes that she had. That's hindsight.
However lets remember that she has followed a dark Plan B with very high boundaries around members of the OS for many years. Longer than I ever did. It's not like she hasn't done the tough stuff willingly and well.
I think the lesson here was rather that she maybe should have considered Dr Harley's advice to divorce at the two year point when he essentially considers the marriage unrecoverable.
I thought at the time when she decided to carry on she may have underestimated how lonely that would be. Being a married Plan Ber is not designed to be a permanent state of existence. It is very lonely and very tough.
Plan Bers after all cannot go on being alone forever. I am a proud Plan Ber and always will be. Yet I am dating.
*Disclaimer. I cannot be objective about Scotty. She was my IM, one of the few (only?) proper Plan B examples for me to follow and she absolutely saved my life.
No matter what has happened, you deserve to be happy. I think you've done a great job with your Plan B and you gave your marriage your best shot. It's not your fault the marriage ended and you shouldn't have to pay for someone else's mistake. I wish you all the best and I know you will use the tools that were given to you to make the best relationship possible with your new man. Take care of your self and thank you for all of your help when I was going through my situation.
Actually she isn't using any tools she learned and is not following Dr Harleys advice
The lesson to be taken from this thread is some great Plan B tips and also to MAINTAIN BOUNDARIES AROUND THE OPPOSITE SEX WHILE SEPARATED.
In this case, the poster had her emotional needs of conversation met in a chat room to the point that she fell in love. Marriage Builder forums disable direct communication between members to prevent betrayed spouses from communicating directly to avoid this scenerio.
I know that in this particular case Scotty was done with her marriage and trying to find a way to afford divorce. Divorce in her case would have left her without as much financial support at a time when she was in dire straits.
It wasn't that she was waiting for her H to return, as is usual with Plan Bers who are still married.
I didn't necessarily think it was a good plan because she is human and I felt she would naturally start to crave companionship when she wasn't dedicated to following a recovery plan. I felt that if she was done, she should divorce.
I am sure she would agree with me now, and wishes that she had. That's hindsight.
However lets remember that she has followed a dark Plan B with very high boundaries around members of the OS for many years. Longer than I ever did. It's not like she hasn't done the tough stuff willingly and well.
I think the lesson here was rather that she maybe should have considered Dr Harley's advice to divorce at the two year point when he essentially considers the marriage unrecoverable.
I thought at the time when she decided to carry on she may have underestimated how lonely that would be. Being a married Plan Ber is not designed to be a permanent state of existence. It is very lonely and very tough.
Plan Bers after all cannot go on being alone forever. I am a proud Plan Ber and always will be. Yet I am dating.
Indie, many of the excuses you make are the same that others have made. For example, ChristianSamurai wife is saying the same thing, that she was done and emotionally divorced. We all hear this all the time.
The fact is nobody is taking a moral high road here. But the fact her boyfriend is married is a major red flag and we have a dear poster yhat has downgraded to renter adultery status
But I confess to being surprised that someone who continually described herself as a "Supreme Buyer" (in fact she used all-caps) would let a man move in with her and her boys after, by my count, 4-5 months of an online relationship.
While she remains married.
Am I missing something here? Is this not utterly contrary to everything that MB stands for?
Indie, many of the excuses you make are the same that others have made. For example, ChristianSamurai wife is saying the same thing, that she was done and emotionally divorced. We all hear this all the time.
The fact is nobody is taking a moral high road here. But the fact her boyfriend is married is a major red flag and we have a dear poster yhat has downgraded to renter adultery status
I'm not making excuses, but neither will I be so gauche as to tell her what she 'should' do.
Remember, she hasn't asked for our opinion.
If she wants MB advice, she will ask for it.
Someone asked why she wasn't posting much so she told us.
Last time I checked, Canada is a free country where people can do as they please.
If someone isn't requesting advice, you have to yell pretty loud when giving it. I suggest we not do that.
I respect what your saying indie but this is a simple affair. Plain and simple they are both married and living together. It's very weird and confounding to see veteran posters wish her happiness when we all know she is setting herself up for failure. Even though she hasn't asked for advice the forum is for advice whether she takes it or not. ***EDIT***
Gauche? This is a forum to share Dr Harleys philosophies. Its not a personal blog. If a friend start s making bad decisions do you come to them and talk or juat say, She hasn't asked for my opinion
It is also inaccurate. Dr H has been asked specifically if relationships that began before parties divorced are the same as affairages. He says not. He does not advocate either one, but he makes a distinction between the two.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Gauche? This is a forum to share Dr Harleys philosophies. Its not a personal blog. If a friend start s making bad decisions do you come to them and talk or juat say, She hasn't asked for my opinion
Not even Dr H gives unsolicited advice. He makes a point of saying it is disrespectful to try and tell others what to do. I take my cue from him.
If Scotty wants my advice she can have it. Until then I will not say a word about it either way.
I don't know Scotty's motivations for posting here, but Indie's suggestion that if someone isn't seeking advice then it is "gauche" to offer them an opinion about their actions simply does not square with SOP (std op proc) on this board.
Indie, I'm sorry but you sound just like my WW's enabling friends and family. If a friend is making a bad decision. Do you let them know of let them destroy themselves? I won't commit further but it seems you are letting Scotty get a pass because you guys are friends. If this was a new poster I bet my paycheck we wouldn't see all this enabling. How many times does Joyce say on the radio show you don't date while in separated or in Plan B? They are living together while married I'm sorry that's an affair and renter relationship. Saying it might leave to a marriage ***EDIT*** is just being honest. I haven't heard Dr. Harley once say its ok to date during a marriage. Please post that quote or link.
Indie, I'm sorry but you sound just like my WW's enabling friends and family. If a friend is making a bad decision. Do you let them know of let them destroy themselves? I won't commit further but it seems you are letting Scotty get a pass because you guys are friends. If this was a new poster I bet my paycheck we wouldn't see all this enabling. How many times does Joyce say on the radio show you don't date while in separated or in Plan B? They are living together while married I'm sorry that's an affair and renter relationship. Saying it might leave to a marriage ***EDIT*** is just being honest. I haven't heard Dr. Harley once say its ok to date during a marriage. Please post that quote or link.
I didn't say it was OK. And if Scotty was unaware of MB, I would let her know the facts and then let her choose what she wanted to do. But you seem to have a problem distinguishing between your WW, and Scotty. Between affairages and this situation.
That's fine, I respect your viewpoint and your value of marriage. I just wouldn't place those values unwillingly onto others.
A reminder to all posters that the purpose of this forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders concepts. Posting on the forum implies that other posters will respond with their understanding of what Dr. Harley would advise in each situation. Dissuading other posters from posting that advice detracts from the goal of this forum.
Indie, thank you for trying to stick up for me. I will say this though, I don't deserve that. I did go against everything that I had stood for. I did it through small steps, much the same as a wayward, although I do not in fact consider myself to be in an affair, as both my, and my boyfriend's marriages were already ended, with excaption of a divorce. I am NOT making excuses. And ITA that by not following DrH's advice, I have actually given myself a very slim chance at success with this new relationship. I do agree that we have entered into this as Renters.
In my marriage, I was a Buyer, complete and total. Part of Plan B is actually to change a Buyer into a Renter in the marriage to be able to consider the chance of moving on.
I had NO intention of going to a chatroom to find someone. I even had boundaries up while I was in there, ie No PMs, but it seemed that I craved attention, and didn't have my boundaries up as high as I should have. I should have gotten a divorce before I started a relationship. I would not condone anyone dating while they are married, Period. That being said, I am. And not only am I, my actions have directly impacted my chances at a long term happy relationship built on Romantic Love.
These reasons, and these reasons alone are what have caused me to no longer post on MB. I do not feel like I can give out advice on a Forum when I am not following one of the most important parts, which is to not date while married.
I do not want this to become a distraction to any of the help that is offered on this site. I believe in MB fully and completely and I have experienced how well it works, when you actually do follow the guidlines.
Although I have not followed MB in the past 8 months, I do acknowledge that I followed MB to a T for more than 3 years, and it saved me. I hope this thread can still be useful to others who are trying to impliment a proper Plan B, and I hope I can also be an example as to what will happen if you do NOT keep those boundaries up.
In closing, I believe that MB and DrH's principles are the best way to ensure a successful marriage.
too.
Cowqueen, you need to get to work. Snoop, snoop, snoop. Start collecting your info and be ready to use it to expose this mess. Yes, it's PA, not EA, and you'll find things - doesn't matter how much he tries to hide it. Check cell phone records, checking accounts, debit & credit card transactions, document everything.
So easy for them to say things like that, having no idea what it's really like. Come to think of it - I had the same attitude. Then it happened to me. 
)grow progressively more likely to do damage to your chances of R.
) and don't be afraid to tell him to leave. The good Dr. H says so. 
).....it can go something like this....
It's a day of celebration and triumph, and rejoicing in God's victory. Chances are, you'll be able to claim it as V-day, too, no matter what happens.
....stoopid waywards....
Here I always thought your dad just wasn't romantic 
about all the cooking and household stuff, though. Something odd is going on in his poor scrambled brain. It won't make a bit of difference to the outcome, it's just strange. Good or bad, he's up to something.
I'm wondering how quickly his addiction will wear off when he steps into the cold world without your presence and has to deal with the fact that the rosy fantasy of his A with the OW cannot be maintained.
ing as well.
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OMG, my father corrupted me in the same way when I was little but he would have never DARED take me for an overnight with one his mistresses. He actually took me to his hotel room to meet his OW when I was FOUR and that was bad enough. But, I did go to counseling for YEARS and was able to overcome being so screwed up by the moral confusion.
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[img]http://[/img] ![[Linked Image from i875.photobucket.com]](http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab319/origcowqueen/moswinterpics3.jpg)
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OK 
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was the best thing that I ever did. You will eventually love it. It was what kicked my behind into shape and I now keep it up. I have started to crave the exercise.![[Linked Image from bestsmileys.com]](http://bestsmileys.com/exercising/8.gif)
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A big hug for you Scotty...usually only my DS gets these hugs from me...and he loves them(not).
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