So as not to threadjack from claygal:


What cracks me up is that this is exactly what he was trying to do while married! For some reason, virtually all WS think that if they just get a divorce, the above description will easily happen and the only thing standing in its way is that pesky marriage!

Jon Gosselin tried to do exactly the same thing to Kate, and I would bet the house that my XWH thought he'd be able to do the same. I don't know, though, since I have not spoken one word to him since he moved out in June of 2008.

And anyone who says an XBS should do all that "for the children" or "to be civilized" has got it completely backward.

How many here had WS/XWS who seemed to think everything would be just fine and friendly, with plenty of drop-in family time, if they just got a divorce? Like divorce would solve all the problems and the BS would be fine with the OP now since, after all, we're not married anymore and that was the only objection, right?
Mulan

My screwballXWW, has, on a couple of occassions, tried to engage in banter, joking etc. I just ignore her. Maybe, if she ever told the truth and apologized, I would be willing to talk to her about things other than the logitics of the kids.
But, until she come clean and apologizes, I'm having none of it.

Yup, that is exactly what my WH thought, he still tries to get me to go to family things with him and DS....One big happy family(oh except for the mistress)

He actually sent me a text saying for me to stop acting like a spoiled child and think of DS for once....UUUGGHHH!!!

WS wants this now...he doesnt even want a divorce...he wants him, DS and I to go to all the family things, spend holidays together, be best pals....but he want his OW too...Weeee, sounds like fun, doesnt it?

Actually, shortly after Dday...My WH had it all planned out..Well lets see, only movie stars get divorced because they are rich..so WH planned for us to stay married, act like a happy family, but he would move in downstairs and still be able to see OW....I wonder how long it took him to figure out that brilliant plan for HIMSELF!

But you ARE thinking of your DS - you are thinking you don't want him to learn that other human beings can be treated like pets that you drop in on whenever you feel like it. You are teaching DS that a spouse is an equal partner who deserves to be respected. You are teaching him that other people are not things you collect like toys to amuse yourself whenever YOU want to play with them.


And this is exactly what he wanted while married to you - right?
Mulan

Yup, You got it, Mulan...

you people are so intolerant and narrow minded!! How can you have a diversity of friends if you practice exclusion?? If you exclude liars, cheaters and adulterers, how can you claim to be diverse? I know I always seek those traits in my friends! You judgmental bigots!

Yeah, I know...I have been also told by WH that I am narrow minded. Its kinda hard to find friends for me I guess being this way....I am glad I found all my judgemental bigot friends on MB though

Yep, it's what they all want - the spouse and the OP.

Sorry, but I married my H, not my WH AND the OP. Three person marriages just don't work for me.

Still, you should have NONE of it. Don't be the third partner. Let his OW meet his needs.

Yeah, I dont do any of it...It would hurt too much for me to do it anyway...but I swear if it werent for MB I would be doing it, pain and all, because my WH is very convincing on makin me feel selfish and guilty, he just is. He always had so much control over my self worth.....Coming on here is what helps me the most, thank God for this website.

In the movie I mentioned, in another thread, "A Serious Man', the poor BH is chastised by both his wife and the OM for not acting like an adult. It is maddening. I wanted to punch the OM right in the hog jowls(just trying to be a little Texan-like, for Mel).

And of course, thank God for you guys...

You have made me so curious about this movie, Z....but I think it would pi$$ me off too much...

Mine was the same, and I would be in the same position if it weren't for MB. I agree - thank God for this website. It has saved me many times.....

See, some Texan is rubbin off on YankeeZelmo!

It's really good and the Coen bros are from this area, Minnesota, so there is a ton of local stuff(like "Fargo"). It is fairly hilarious, but the cheating deal is quite triggering.

Maybe that is why your WH is acting like a vengeful ba$[censored], Chai....He is not in control of you at all anymore, self worth and all...Chai is fighting back and not doing what WH wants, so he is hoppin mad.

Zelmo, as a fellow yankee, I am just scared for you....

Nothing makes a WS madder than having their fantasy busted to bits, whether it's while married or while divorced.

Heh.
Mulan

Here is MY fantasy of divorce.

It doesn't exist since once a couple marry and commit to a life together, they meet each other's emotional needs and are in no way vulnerable to other people.

That

and

I am forever and ever highly attractive to men who are five years younger than me....no matter HOW old I get (and I am planning on living a very long, fulfilling, good life).

Yup, Mulan....Ahhhh, I guess there is still some stuff that makes me smile about waywards...FANTASY BUSTIN'!

And if anyone tells you to "be an adult about this", just inform them that you were not going to be part of a threesome while married and you are NOT going to be part of a threesome while divorced. And you do not want your children thinking that these arrangements are okay whether married OR divorced.

And oh, yeah, I was angrily told to stop being so judgmental, too.

I told him it was too bad HE wasn't more judgemental about the people HE was keeping company with.

Well, he can spend all the time he wants with them now. Sorry to have busted the fantasy that we might be "friends" or he could "drop in" from time to time.

No way. No threesomes while married and no threesomes when divorced. A horrible example for DS21. No way, no way, no way.
Mulan

A-M-E-N!!!!!The wayward gets only ONE. The spouse OR the OP.

Mulan, You go girl!!!

I'm sorry , Mulan. How long ago was your XH's traumatic brain injury?
If only we could aspire to be as adult and mature and non-judgemental as our ever so highly evolved WSs. These sainted folks really know the meaning of life, the old live and let live, love the one you're with, let ye without sin cast the first stone, deal.
When will we petty BSs ever understand that we were put on this earth to serve them and we should be grateful that they deign to acknowledge us.

Yeah, I think that my WH got mixed up with the "love the one you're with" and thought it was "love the one you work with".

And mine thought it was "love the one you pick up in a sleazy bar."

Yes, I just mentioned this movie to my second cousin from Texas and his neice/wife. He wanted to open up a can of whoopass on the guy,as well.

I get the act like an adult line from POSOM via exWW all the time. I heard he's pretty upset that I subpoena'd his mother, ex wife, 19 year old daughter, and 21 year old son for depositions in the alimony trial.

In POSOM's subpoena, I asked for his tax returns documenting that he reported income for his "barter" benefits from working for our farm as well as an affadavit from PA Child Support Enforcement stating that our business was not required to withhold his barter income to help pay off his $10,000 in back child support. The problem? POSOM hasn't filed his taxes in about 10 years!

POSOM has no one to blame but himself for inserting himself in both my exWW and our finances.

I have never understood how it is an "adult" behavior to be around someone who lies, cheats and otherwise abuses you. That doesn't sound very "adult" to me. In fact, that sounds pretty immature if you ask me. Even a 5 year old wouldn't want someone for a friend who abused him.

You are my hero, PSU!!

That's exactly what my FWH's parents did...very sick, twisted, and confusing to the children.

So, of course, FWH expected me to follow suit.

Boy was he surprised when he found out he would either be my husband in every way or no part of my life at all.

We "laugh" (kind of) about it now. About just how stupid waywards are.

Even if you are divorced - would you date someone who already had a boyfriend/girlfriend? Of course not. So why would an XWS think you would date *them* when you know bloody well they're already seeing someone else (cos that's why they left!) and why on earth would you even consider it??

If an XWS is not seeing anyone else and you want to date them and see where it goes - then sure. But if they're seeing someone else - well, would you date anybody else on this planet when you *knew* they already had a boyfriend/girlfriend?
Mulan

No, I wouldnt, but that didn't stop OW from "dating" *my* H. She knew very well he was M'd and had kids.

Cat

I really appreciate this thread and have read through it a couple times. Why?

Because this is the twisted mindset of my WW. A few months ago, she told me about a couple that divorced, but stayed really good friends -- to the point that they bought houses next door to each other (but were with new partners). My WW thought that was so cool and said that if things didn't work out between her and I, she hoped we'd have a good relationship like that.

Unfortunately, I don't know how to put the "throw-up cartoon guy" on here, but that's what I thought then and that's what I think now.

I will NOT make WW feel better about her pathetic behavior and skewed sense of reality by being chummy with her if Plan D materializes. As a matter of fact, there's no reason to have that mindset NOW since WW has moved out.

I am sickened by any WS that wants this "fantasy divorce". And the more I read this, the more I am disgusted with myself for not having more of a mindset like those of you here who have taken such a strong stand. Thank you. It's exactly what I needed to hear.

TB

Back in the days when the fog was London-thick -- probably a day or two after d-day -- my then WW mentioned that we could stay friends.

That's when I calmly explained to her, in a straightforward fashion with no rancor, that if we wound up getting a D that she would be dead to me, that I would never ever speak to her again, or even be in the same room with her again. Ever.

I didn't mention that it would be likely that our kids would by their own volition never speak to her again, but she kinda got that on her own. Stopped that s%%t in it's tracks, thankfully.

Gotta stay strong when they start spewing crap like that. Luckily it's working out quite well for us these days.

When the fog was what?

My opinion is that the attitude "we should stay friends" and "behave like adults" comes from (widespread?) standpoint that the person who wants divorce is not guilty for breakup. Or if there was infidelity then "WS was missing something from BS" and that makes actually BS guilty for divorce.

And if BS was guilty then of course he/she should behave and not make things worse

Recon, I am glad you are bringing up this point because this is what I am facing now. It has been 6 weeks of dark plan B for me and 2 months since we separated.
At this point people are starting to hint that if he did it twice and if now his 2nd A is with the neighbor downstairs then he must have been pretty desperate to resort to that...meaning the M was bad bad bad and because of me.
I try not to care about what people say..but it hurts.
Also, H is a smooth talker and I am sure he is giving people his side of the story: Atena was a real b**ch and I was so unhappy in the whole M but stayed till son graduated. It was so hard but I did it for him. Yes, now I am seeing someone else, but that was after I told Atena I wanted to separate (yeh sure...but he was still living with us and introducing me as his wife....)
I am really getting the short end of the stick in all this...

Atena, you are getting the GOOD END of the stick! As usual, you see the GLASS HALF EMPTY and don't see the good in this situation.

You have removed yourself from his circle of abuse and are recovering. Whereas, he is living in the sewer of his adultery in an environment where he has to justify and rationalize his lifestyle. Everywhere he goes, people know what he has done. He always has to wonder who knows what. Always looking over his shoulder because he wears a scarlet letter.

He is stuck with an OW who has ever growing needs and expectations and has 2 annoying little children. And you can bet she is watching him like a HAWK because she knows he is a cheater. She is probably driving him MAD nagging him about where he is, etc. I RELISH the thought of what his life is like right now.

And to add to the misery, he is now headed towards the first holidays without you. With a strange woman with whom he has no history and her loud little children. The holidays are a great wake up call for a WS in plan B. I am licking my chops!

Hi Melody!
H seems very happy with his new lifestyle, he has never tried to contact me but I am told that he is enjoying the outdoors and that he looks 20 years old (this was from a guy who sees him swim and canoe at the lake and did not know we were separated)
Yes, the holidays are approaching and since we live in another country and OW is Italian, H will not miss thanksgiving much as we have not celebrated it much for the past 7 years.
However, xmas is near and son is arriving Dec 24. He will spend xmas with me.
I spoke to son yesterday and told him so. He agreed but he added: "well mom, do not make too many other plans for new years till I call dad and find out what he is up to. I do want to see him during the holidays. Poor dad"
At that point I got very irritated with son and told him:
"Son, he is not poor. He chose the OW. YOu are in the States now and do not know the details but let me tell you this: he spends all his free time with her. You are no longer his priority honey and so do not get your hopes up about him wanting to spend too much time with you. Sorry, but i need to prepare you for this, just in case..."
Son at that point got really irritated with me. Maybe I did not handle it right.
My son is not mad at his dad. As he should be. Again...son was already in the states when all the mess broke lose so...when he comes for xmas he is going to be informed in details not only about his dad's current A but also about the one he had 4 years ago with my son's english teacher.
Am I over-reacting?

I think some want this. There are others who want NOTHING to do with their BS. That would be my XWW. I don't hear from her, unless she wants me to pay some bill. Many years after the D was final, she is far from this sort of thing.

We are supposed to co-parent, but how do you do that when the primary custodial parent refuses to speak with the co-custodian?

So I guess she has her fantasy. She gets to be the mom, my primary input is money through child support and paying my 1/2 of any medical, dental or vision bills and that's it.

At least there is only 7 more years of this and DD will be out of school, and if my DD wants my support, she can ask me directly.

She didn't get the OM, and now sits home alone on weekends without DD, and lives vicariously through my former SD who is now in college.

Apparently, she has a new fantasy, that she's a 19 or 20 something college student.

SEE?? You just made my point!! You see him at work and you can see with your own eyes that he has lost weight, looks "awful" and "looks like a ZOMBIE!!" [those are YOUR WORDS you wrote to me just yesterday, Madam!] But someone tells you he looks young and you dismiss what you have seen with your own eyes. Mama Mia, she makka me crazy!!

Also, if someone tries to talk to you about him, will you PLEASE put your hand up and say "please, I do not want to hear about him. I am trying to move on and part of that is not hearing about him."

Is your son spending Christmas with you? What are your plans for Christmas?

oh duh! I see it now. That is great!

We are going to my mom for xmas and then a friend of mine with her 18 year old d asked me if we want to spend new year in Paris, France. My son said it sound good, but he has to see what poor dad is doing....

Melody, for some reason you seems pretty sure my H is miserable...he looked bad even when we were still together. I am not sure he is unhappy now. It has only been 2 months for him and I truly believe that he has what he wants now. I am not saying that he does not have his down and depressed moments, but he has never contacted me or given me any sign that he is missing me....
I think actions speak loud in his case.
I would only hate for my son not too see how much his dad has hurt us and then go and spend time with him and shank....that will kill me.

Thank you, dots connected this morning!

My WH's family: Mom worked to support the family. Dad worked to support his alcoholism and wayward ways, many mistresses on the side.

My WH's fantasy - revealed by him, by his actions and answers to my questions: Real women work to support their husbands and families. Only a real woman can be a good mother. He had two women, both prostitutes, that he had been highly considering marrying and bringing them in as our children's mom. Keeping me on the side as the OW, just for sex purposes.

Husband must have thought his Mom was supporting her husband's ways by working. And in a sense wasn't she, by not leaving earlier on. Thought that Dad was supporting the family and getting to have all the toys and pleasures because of spousal support. Therefore it must be ok with what Dad did, I want that too.

BUT IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT!!!

My exWW is still living in the fantasy because that's the only thing she has. Right now, we split the physical responsibility of the kids but PSUBIKER has ALL of the financial responsibility. I say this because I pay her child support, pay for the medical insurance, pay all of the daycare, pay all of the unreimbursed medical expenses, pay for the clothes, while she and POSOM get to live like bums. (living like a bum is a step up for POSOM)

If the judge rules in my favor for custody, I would imagine the fantasy would end for exWW. She would have no child support, no alimony, only a job that pays her $7.00 per hour. Plus, she has to support POSOM since he's unwilling to work.

My DS is 8 and I think yours is in his late teens....You understandably should FEEL the way you do, but I think you shouldnt react so much to it with your DS....My DS constanly will want to spend time that is supposed to be ours with his dad instead and yeah it makes me hurt and angry.....but sometimes i think it is because he is so sure that i will never leave him, ya know? When he is with his dad he knows I am not goin anywhere and maybe he doesnt feel so confident about his dad...

Dont react so much to it I really dont think we have to worry...our DS' know what WH have done (and yes make sure yours does) and I think they are insecure with their dads and not so much with us, but they dont say that because they probably dont even realize it...When they are men they will, they will realize the sacrifices we made and what sacrifices their dads didnt make, we dont need to drill it in their heads, we just need to assure them that no matter what, even if they want to be with thier dad instead of us, we will always love and be there for them...

I think worrying aboiut your XWs is a losing proposition. Try to just cut him or her out of your life as much as possible. You can go crazy worrying whether your kids will see the truth(they will, eventually, IMO) or whether he /she is doing well. You really can never know what others think of them or what disinformation he or she has spread.
If you are worried about your image, the best thing you can do is to simply not talk about your ex, except to a few people who support you.
Look, you all know the truth about your XWS's cheating. Many other people probably do, as well.
You do not stay friends with someone that has done this and divorced you, never apologizing.
My first wife, a serial cheater , really does not understand why I cannot stand to be around her or to talk to her. She is one of those people who think that the mere passage of time, without having done any work to get forgiveness, is enough.
See, this is one of the reasons she is a cheater to begin with. She does not take into consideration the feelings of others , nor does she accept responsibility for her actions.
And, you know what? I will never be able to make her have empathy or a sense of responsibility. Nothing I can say or do will accomplish that. So, I do not try. I just avoid her as much as possible. It works pretty well.

Oh no, not FANTASY BUSTIN', poor exWW


oh sorry wrong smiley..... FANTASY BUSTIN', poor exWW

The best defense any BS or XBS has against this fantasy is to TELL THE TRUTH.

Tell the truth to everyone you know - your children, your family, your friends, your co-workers, your neighbors, EVERYONE.

The Divorce Fantasy thrives, and the average person tends to believe it ("you should be nice to XWS for the kids!") because nobody every TALKS ABOUT the reality of adultery and destroyed families.

You do not have to bad-mouth your WS/XWS. It's not necessary, anyway, if you just tell the short and simple truth about their actions. Those actions speak for themselves and will be far more shocking than any insult you could heap on WS/XWS.

Tell The Truth to EVERYONE!!!
Mulan

I agree. You can tell the truth. Just try to avoid editorializing, as it makes you look bad.
When my XW's parents friends would see me, not knowing what i was going through, and would inquire "how's everything going, Zelmo?", I wouls simply resopond along the lines of " Alright, XW is having an affair and we are divorcing. Other than that, my golf game is excellent, right now."
Or, I could simply work the fact of an affair into a casual conversation, to get the word out but not look like I was trying to badmouth her. Like just saying" Oh, the kids are fine. I think XW and her affair partner are bringing them to his house for Thanksgiving." I'd use the term affair partner, just blase about it, as if it was common knowledge and well accepted as the truth.
I think this is an effective technique to make you look normal and also to lend credibility to the accurate information you are dispensing.

I like to use "exWW had an affair with her 2nd cousin and we are divorcing."

This stupid fantasy cuts across gender lines too.

My WW thought she could have her sleazy affair and marry her POSOM....while retaining us "being friends" and not losing the people who loved her (i.e. MY family and our friends). She thought she could win or buy the love and respect of POSOM's kids.

None of it worked out for her one bit, as predicted.

Her "step" kids despise and disdain her, her lover-boy serial-adultering husband pays no attention whatsoever to her anymore, she has lost virtually ALL family and friends (including those people who initially sided with her), i will not speak to her at all---she is now completely isolated. She was warned and knows it!!!

Totally screwed up her life....threw away a tremendous amount for nothing more than a short-term, irrational, immoral fantasy.......

excrement meets fan

I almost feel like buying airfare to fly out for your trial

You might also add: "She met him at the casting call for the sequel to "Deliverance".

I used to take my boys back East each summer and would pick them up from my XWW's house to drive to see my family. It always amazed me how she would blithely request I greet all my siblings and folks for her. They hate her and know her for what she is. She just never figured out how bad what she had done was.

Yes Zelmo, people like my H and your W will never figure out how bad they messed up and how messed up they are. Here we are, miserable, and them....not even aware of their action, feeling totally entitled.
With a personality like they have I guess life passes right thru them. I do not think they will ever get a grip or ever feel the pain of what they put us thru. If your W and my H were A partners their A would have ended in a happy M. They are one of a kind.
blessing

You all forgot the part where the BS is supposed to gain a bazillion pounds, adopt 27 cats, and sit home every weekend in solitary pining over the gone wayward draping ourselves in bitterness and ill-spirits until the day we die......

or at least that was what my WH had wanted........

not2fun

And the media doesn't help with shows like "Reba". BS "gets along" with EWH and is friends with OW, who is now his wife. I really like Reba (the person) but I don't get how she could do a show like that, unless she's never been a BS. I used to like that show until I really started thinking about it's message.

I think my WH got his wish come true on that one..

Let them squeal like a piggy!

I've spent a lot of time over the last week or so going over the audio tape from the PFA hearing from 11/26/08 where xWW had POSOM testify. It was well worth the $25 I paid to have it made. We had a woman judge for this hearing and she had ZERO patience for exWW. It was great!

Then, exWW and POSOM probably thought that their testimony would nail me to the wall. Turns out, except for some small details, POSOM's testimony matched mine and were about 180 degrees different from exWW!

To make things even better, his testimoney is going to be used against her in the alimony hearing!

The proceedings were so rediculous and over the top that it would make great TV drama without much editing! The alimony hearing will definately be worth the price of admission! Especially since the big issue is exWW's SF with POSOM and whether she cohabitates with him. Nothing like bringing your adultry straight into the courtroom for all to see!

Oh yes -- the Fantasy of Divorce.

Welcome to Fantasy Island...

Boss boss, zee plane zee plane.

Tattoo runs to greet the new visitors to welcome them to the world of Fantasy Island.

All of your dreams will come true. Here your BS will be happy that you left. They want YOU to have everything you deserve.

Yes there is one room for you and your OP and then an attached suite for your BS and the children. Of course the OP children can stay there also. It is one big family.

Mr Rourke comes down to meet everyone. Tattoo looks up at him and says "boss can this really happen?" Yes, my little friend but only on Fantasy island.


Yes my XH was demented.

Fantasy: Said we will help each other out with D16. If you want to go away I can watch her or anytime you want to go out.
Reality: D16 refuses all contact with him. Has not seen him since May 2008 and counting. Her choice


Fantasy: I will help you with all the maintenance on the house and cut the lawn.
Reality: First week he was over every day doing work. Has not set foot in the house since he dropped off D papers in mail box January 2009

Fantasy: You will be happier...I will be happy.
Reality: If happiness means drinking like a fish and living with a pig he must be falling over with happiness. I work on my own personal happiness everyday but have learned and improved upon myself.


Fantasy: We can even go to Las Vegas together because we will be friends.
Reality: He took PP there at least 2x in a year and spent $5K in 5 days. He blew all his money on this A.

Fantasy: You will be "fair" to me if I decide to get a divorce.
Reality: Fair as in take 1/2 of everything. Another bubble that blew up in his face. He is in financial hole, lost all respect at work, lives with a demented barbie doll and he is "happy" or nuts????

more fog babble more fog babble.

The good part is watching the train wreck.

I'm an entropy fan.

I need to bring my nephew. He would enjoy watching a good train wreck. He could bring a whistle.

Sadly, they aren't "one of a kind". This is how 99% of WSs act...as much as we want to think so in self-pity, there is nothing "unique" or "special" about our WSs/xWSs. It's just run-of-the-mill wayward behavior.

The common scenario is WH runs off to be with OW. BS keeps kids and the X & his Mistress get rights to visit. Fanatsy of everyone getting along.

In my case mine WH specifically stated to me he was going to replace me, our childrens' mom. OW was going to be the new mom and they the two of them and kids would live happily ever after. Upon hearing this, my MIL declared she would support his fantasy if he chooses this. She told me, if I don't stay and fix this she will make sure I lose the kids. She will hire the best attorney and support her son in his choice and I will lose the kids. She will make sure of it, told very forcefully.

That's one of my biggest fears. I know she has the finances and connections to boot. I'v been told not to believe this bs but it's hard not to. Would it be a far fetch to have this happen?

So in a ways I can relate to the BS's who have XWWs who threaten and sometimes, often end up with the kids.

SDCW,
There are some WS who seem to redeem themselves down the road. I think Zelmo's W and my H are the hard core ones...those that do not even see the pain they inflict and never will. At some point all WS are like my H, but then some do brake into tears and say they are sorry...so there are several degress of being a jerk...
blessing

OMG, Alice, I am so sorry...this is so very hard...but I have heard that it is very very very difficult for the mother to lose custody of the kids, so I wouldnt think you would have to worry, but I am not positive....Nice inlaws huh?

Right after Dday my WH wrote me a letter stating what a horrible person he was and how sorry HE was that HE inflicted so much pain on so many people that love him....NEVER did I hear this again after, and he cries all the time according to DS and he has cried in front of me and MIL recently....BUT he is still with OW, so I think he is one of the ones that just thinks that eventually everyone will get over and just forget about everything he has done and pretend it never happened...and inlaws and me and DS will just accept OW, FAT CHANCE...

stillhere, many folks never get that it's not enough to SAY you're sorry, although they seem to think it should be and can't understand why it's not.

They never grasp, or don't want to grasp, that if you are really sorry you have to actually DO the things that would SHOW you are sorry.

Your WH was crying, sure, but he wasn't crying enough to get rid of his girlfriend, was he? Until he's crying enough to actually DO that, his tears and $3 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Mulan

You are right Mulan....I think he was just crying for himself and how everything didnt work out according to his plan..ie. We are NOT all one big happy family and accept OW...

Atena,

I guess you could say some WSs are more 'hard-core' than others over time, but they ALL act with selfish self-entitlement, callous disregard for the hurt they have inflicted, and a stubborn refusal to openly acknowledge the wrongfulness of their actions, even for them. True, some "come around" sooner than others and some seemingly never do outwardly. But, I am convinced that virtually ALL of them feel it inside when the fantasy fades and the loss sinks in. I know how much it sucks to want "more" and "sooner" from them.

If you read my sig below, you will see that I am in the same boat as you and Zelmo (and many OTHERS)...I do understand and know your pain as my own. We have to go on with our lives and consider that whatever "good" we may get someday from our WSs/xWSs will be just gravy, so to speak, and not necessary for our existence, happiness, or recovery.

I'm so sorry...God Bless
SDCW

Very well stated.

I heard similar things from my WW and later from my xWW but without ACTIONS it means nothing and the BS has to refuse to validate it as anything more than NOTHING.

The sorry's that I got that I hated were the " i am sorry for the way things turned out for us" or "I am sorry for the things that happened that made things the way they are now" or "I am sorry for the way things happened"

I have tons of "I am sorry text messages" I call them 101 ways to say you are sorry without saying YOU are sorry.... He loves to blame the all encompassing "SITUATION" or "the way things happened". Yeah because the "situation" cheated and lied not WH.

But the one letter at the beginning it was HE was sorry for what HE did and the pain HE inflicted and he doesnt know why HE did it, he knew something was wrong with me and HE didnt do anything about it...To me this just proves that deep inside in that WH is my H who takes full responsibilty for his affair and knows it was his fault and not mine or the "situation".

Somehow he stuffed that way deep inside him and I dont know if it will ever come back out. But I know its in there and that is the H that I miss so much, the H that could admit when he screwed up (most of the time) the H that cared about me and would never hurt me like WH did.

But maybe my H is dead. Never to be heard from again...

TRUE TO LIFE STORY--SWEAR TO GOD

Upon a much belated D-day, after months of lying, manipulation, and cake-eating:

(Me) "I know about you and POSOM...I can't believe you would do such a thing"

(WW) "You are being so judgmental!"

Much later, post-D:

(WW) "I had hoped we could be friends...or at least 'friendly'!"

(Me) "I have no desire to be 'friends' with someone who lies to me, betrays me, and stabs me in the back...I have no need for a 'friend' like that."

Yep, I love that old "let's let bygones be bygones" deal and in effect telling you that you are being petty and need to be "adult" and forget it. I got this from my first WW. He ridea of asking forgiveness was a 15 second apolgy at one of my son's footaball games, followed by the expanation that " there was much more going on(that was all my fault) and her emotional needs were not being met(again, my failing, I am sure).
If you really want a good , trigeering movie, go see "A Serious Man". It deals with this fantasy of bot the OM and the WW expecting the BS to rollover and play dead and "be an "adult". I was so pissed by it.

Another part of the fantasy is that their new life will be PERFECT once the D is final. PERFECT as in rainbows and butterflies every day, riches and wealth beyond belief, supportive family and friends, etc. Like everyone will say "Gosh, you made the PERFECT decision divorcing BS and choosing OP. You two are PERFECT for each other... soulmates...destined to be together forever."

That's what blows my mind. That they believe that their life will be PERFECT because they changed partners. Like by dumping their spouse, the stars will align, they will win the lottery AND a Nobel Prize, and everything they touch will turn into gold. Ahhhh.... PERFECT.

Yeah cuz waywards are perfect dontchaknow...They just needed to find the "perfect" soulmate to complete them...the BS was bringing them down and now that they found their perfect match in OP everything will be sunshine and roses....

Now those pesky BS' need to come around and let bygones be bygones and forgive and forget for the childrens sake..COME ON GROW UP BS'....

I mean my WH only ripped out my soul then proceeded to stomp on it until it was almost beyond repair...and still to this day he pokes at it and I am sure wonders how the heck it is even still alive at all after all he did to try and kill it...

While i was in the hospital after Dday, he tried so hard to make it perfectly clear the he did not love me anymore and didnt even think he ever did...and that now he has found the true love of his life, unfortunately he had been with her for two years and I accidentally found out about it. He just didnt have the heart to tell me before that, But now that I found out and am in the hospital after attempting suicide, well this is the perfect time make sure he pounds it into my skull that I mean nothing to him anymore and he has found his perfect soulmate...poor waynerd, he has had it rough. He really tried to make it easy on me. I mean he did wait until I was surrounded by doctors when he proceeded to rip my soul out....I mean why, why, why cant I just be friends with this guy for the sake of DS...

...and to this day he still tells me he never would want to be with a "sick" (depression) person and that my "sickness" is rubbing off on DS and making him want his father to come home still. I mean logically WH leaving has nothing to do with DS wanting hime to come home. Why why why can we all just not get along...NOT!

Stillhere,

Know that those half-hearted, refusing-to-accept-reponsibility-for-one's-actions type of apologies are all too common among waywayds. I too heard the "I'm sorry for the way things have turned out" and "I'm sorry for the way things are now" type of lame excuses as well. They are all about trying to placate or appease the BS with a halting expression of guilt/remorse without truly having to confess or repent for anything. Sort of like saying "I'm sorry you are disappointed that the weather today isn't cooperative."

The WS is just trying to win the BS's approval, validation, or at least acceptance of their affair, betrayal, and lies with this. It's just another manipulation all too common among unrepentant and unapologetic adulterers.

Here's another aspect that they never think of:

When my XWH was married, I don't think he realized what an attractive feature his marriage was for the low-life, no-self-respect, trashy loser gold-digging women he was dating (most of whom worked for him).

For them to get a married man to date them, it's a case of, "Oooh, look at this! He's MARRIED, but he's ignoring his wife for ME. He's lying to his wife for ME. That's how special **I** am! He's treating his OWN WIFE like she's nothing so he can be with ME instead! OOOH, I'M SO SO SPECIAL!!!!"

But not any more.

Now he's just another divorced loser trying to score some free a$$, just like 10,000 other guys in the same workplace or in the same bar or at the same party.

And he's also pushing 50 years old and is overweight and losing his hair. His wife never minded those things, but the hot cheap chicks he's so enamored with won't be so impressed.

Ah, well, it'll all be okay as long as his money holds out. As long as the hot cheap chicks think he'll spend his money on them instead of on his honor student son's college education, no worries. They'll keep hanging around and he'll keep thinking everybody else is just soooo impressed at all the p*ssy the old man gets. And he's made it clear he does not care about anything else in this world.

I told him once that in the end, I would have nothing left for him but pity. And I don't. I really don't.
Mulan

This sounds exactly like what my WW is thinking! Although she told me that she isn't counting on her relationship with the OM to last, the keylogger I installed shows that instead of looking for an apartment to move to (in two days!), she's been checking out the half-million $$ homes for sale in another community -- closer to where her kids live, no less.

With no job, no money, ruined credit and basically a suitcase of clothes to her name, her fantasy world is large and rich.

OM is about as likely (if he's even able, with four kids to support) to plunk down $$ for a fancy home for the two of them, health insurance for her, pay for her gas, food and child support and everything else she's not attending to.

The sheer insanity displayed by some of the people continues to astound.

Sometimes I think its just about winning. The OW in some cases really doesn't want them, but they just want to win. To prove that he will leave his W for her. Many times after they've won, they drop the WS.


It's the size of the wallet that matters. A big wallet allows the other shortcomings to appear insignificant.

OP doesn't care about WS's kids. Not their kids, so why would they? You are right about the money....one day he will be old, broke, and requiring care. Not too many singles want that package.

I totally agree with the above. OW wants to win a man away from his wife, WH wants a hot chick to impress, and the size of his wallet is the true object of OWs affection.

And OP doesn't care about WS's kids. But when WS stops caring about his own kids? OUCH.

In my case, this is WHs form of punishment to us for not going along with HIS fantasy. Ignoring ME is expected, but when the same happens to our kids it's hard to watch. I know my kids are better off NOT being around him when he's in his fantasy world. In fact, the last time they were together, the girls ended up in tears. But it pains me to no end that their relationship with him is "his way or the highway."

If he can't convince others of the fantasy of divorce, then he will bully them into going along with it.

Oh, boy are your right about the divorce being a very vicious Punishment for my refusing to go along with his fantasy of being married at home and single at work. I often feel that he didn't so much divorce me as he fired me, just as he would any other insubordinate employee.

But with DS21, it has been most shocking. He and his father used to be very close, but - like any other addict - XWH has surrounded himself with yes-people and totally cut out anybody who might criticize him.

I remain completely dark to what XWH is doing, but I do know how much time DS21 spends at home and at work and at school - and there has been less and less and less time spent where he could be with his father. This past holiday, he's been here with me and with his sister and her family who came in from out of town.

XWH has a huge ego and wants others to come to him and tell him how wonderful he is. He lives for this, and I have a feeling he is largely ignoring DS21 in hopes this will force DS to come crawling to Daddy for some attention. But DS is no yes-boy and would not do that for anyone, no matter who they are.

More of the fantasy is crumbling and now it's DS21 who is being punished. I really never thought he would do such a thing to DS. Me, oh sure, in spades. But not this.

Until that's exactly what he did.

If this isn't a sickness and an addiction, I don't know what is.
Mulan

On another thread, "peachyisback" wrote:

What the xws always wants is acceptance and to NOT feel bad about what THEY did. That's it usually in a nutshell.

My xh was all about this whenever we'd have something like this happen to us. It could be a kindergarten graduation we went to. Biggest one I could remember was my son graduating from vacation Bible school. Something as innocent as that, can be turned into a delude just b/c of the crazy ws.

I've told this one here before, but on the day of the graduation, I left work early, still in my scrubs to go to the church. I sat down in the crowded sanctuary. Right before (like meaning he and the wistress were about 30 seconds from the program starting) bounded into the church sanctuary. Immediately my heart sank. Ugh. Know your feeling.

She was dressed as if she was going to go clubbing, wearing daisy duke short shores, high heels, a tank top, and dripping in jewelry and the women in the church all kinda gasped from disbelief in seeing the getup that my xh's wistress wife was wearing.

Then the xwh, whom I call Darth, scanned the crowd and spotted me! Yep me. So they push their way down the pews into the little bit of space beside me. My x positions himself so on one side he's sitting by his affairage wife, and on the other side, me.

I looked at him in disbelief and got up and moved waaaay down the pew away from them (other people must've found this silly, I know). I told my xh from day one, if we ended our M due to his infidelity and he married the ow, there would be no friendship. NO FRIENDSHIP, but mostly, I would NEVER ever ever CONDONE HIS ACTIONS. So I didn't. He moved again, and tried to sit by me, and again I got up and moved somewhere else.

I wanted my actions to be clear, I was not ever going to condone what they did, but at the same time I gave NO REACTION at all to them being there. Didn't look at them, say a word, just got up and moved. Twice!

So that's what your x is probably wanting. She's wanting to 1)make sure the coast is clear and that you'll be ok with her being there b/c she doesn't want good, decent, church-going believers to look down their nose at her. Again, it's about acceptance from you and strangers and 2)she doesn't want to face your family and have to deal with them looking at her knowing what she did, since she knows they can't stand what she did.

This is the main motivator imho from the xws, especially one who was non-repentant and continues living as a wayward. Acceptance and justification.

You see, if you totally accept them and are friendly, and accept them NOW as they are now, then their foggy minds justifies all they did to rip apart their families, break up their marriages, and lie and cheat. Doing that, accepting them, absolves them of guilt and the possibility of turning from their being wayward.

So I never did accept my x. Nope. No friendship.

My xh had a fantasy that we'd become really good friends after our divorce. That he'd have me over for dinner, we'd have great talks and good fun, and that he'd come over to my house for dinner too. Even a few times he'd joked that "once I got all this stuff out of my system (meaning his cheating), we'd probably just get remarried again and live happily ever after."

Well that's the wayward fantasy. You, his/her x husband or wife sitting by the affair partner, all laughing, cajoling, and drinking a glass of wine, laughing about how great life is now. That's their crazy dream. That all the families and kids involved would be just so happy to see their parents and loved ones "all happy" and that everybody would decide that daddy or mommy having that affair was the best thing ever!

That's the pipe dream (more like a crack pipe dream) of every wayward I've ever heard of or known.

The Wayward Life Plan:
1)avoid feeling guilty ever
2)avoid people who will remind you that the affair was wrong
3)act as if nothing is or was ever wrong
4)blame the BS for anything, something
5)avoid BS' family who know what you did.
and also...
6)avoid churches b/c they remind you what you did and what God feels about what you did.
and mainly...
7)Try to get the BS to become friends with you and accept you and your affair partner so that your affair is justified and all the lying and cheating was really ok all along!
_________________________
*41 yo ex bw! Divorced Jan. 04, ex one of MB'ers worst offenders!
*mom to amazing now 12 yo ds! Full custody btw!
*xh married ow 1 day after d final Jan. 04
*I slowly begin to regain me and rebuild my life from complete financial ruin courtesy of ex.
*Late 07 meet wonderful guy.
*July 31 2010 marries wonderful guy. Son loves wonderful guy. MB'er for life!

God has a great sense of humor.

Thanks Mulan..that's kind of your to put that up here.

But it's the truth. 100 percent.

They want us to pretend everything is ok. I know the song "Not Ready to Make Nice" by the Dixie Chicks was about their crazy political beliefs, but to me, the song was about how I felt about my divorce with my x.

It would not ever be a friendship. Why? YOU don't treat FRIENDS like that! You don't hurt, lie, cheat, and steal from your friends.

Oh and I need to add in another "addendum" to my bio.

My XWH and his affairage wife? The Wistress? he he he he he.

Their DIVORCE is FINAL NOW.

All that drama, crazy, and evil for nothing. Nada. Zilch. My family was torn up and thrown away by my xh for no apparent reason.

They weren't married as long as we were. The ow of course, once told me, that "I know it's hard to believe, but I love your son as though he were MINE."

Nope. She didn't. She loved my xh and his money. Well make that the $. Their affair and affairage fantasy fell apart soon after they married, as he began cheating on her almost immediately.

They did have a daughter and she's 7 now. I always know how long I've been divorced, b/c that's the age of my son's half sister.

The fantasy crumbled, just like everybody and all the experts said it would. But she was his "soul mate", he told me that. He told me that she would raise MY child. She didn't.

This woman, this ow, who once said she felt as though my child were her own? I haven't really heard from her since August. She has made ZERO attempt to try to see my child or get her child (my son's half sister) and my son to even see one aother at all.

So much for her loving my son as her own right? It's all just smoke & mirrors with waywards.

I also 100 percent agree with everybody who posted that the ow just wants to "win". To me, their "win" is more like Charlie Sheen's version...as in, WINNING!~ lol.

They never win. But the ow (yes I am saying all of them b/c it is almost all the same) want one thin. The LIFE of the BW. She wanted my husband, my car, my being a stay at home mom (I'm not and haven't been since before the divorce), my jewelry, my everything was what she wanted to "win".

Most of all, she wanted him to get that divorce. It was a contest to her. She is/was a pretty crappy mom in her own right. She has less than half custody of her own child from a previous relationship, her child has severe emotional problems and even failed kindergarten. She feeds her kids horrible junk food. And to think, Darth, the xwh of mine, used to tell me how it was ME who fed my child poorly (I never did and have never, as I'm a health professional) and that the wistress was the "best cook in the world".

wow. NONE of it was all true. And it's so sad. It all had to happen for nothing. Nothing.

My child, who is 12 and whom I have sole custody of, said in all of his wisdom a few months back when I had to break the news of his dads' yet another divorce said, "Mom, I'm just not interested in seeing him (dad) anymore. I'm sick of it all. I don't want to get to know another wife of his. I don't want to find out I have another half sister or brother either, because I won't see them. I don't have to anymore (see the xwh) do I?"

You see, you will find out and the WS will find out that there will come a day and time, when their own kids, even if they are little and they think now the little ones won't know any better if their daddy or mommy cheats. But those little ones will grow up and they will tire of the lies and the lives of their wayward parent.

If you are a WS, your kids will truthfully get sick of your ways. They'll tire of your endless selfishness and justifications, because unlike you, they're honest. They do tell it like it is.

On a different note, I read from some of you how your xws were literally dreaming of million dollar homes and things beyond their grasp. Well I had a wealthy xwh, and he lost everything. I mean everything now. He can't even pay me CS, but when he can, the court will make him.

Funny thing, but one year before he lost everything, I went over to that house to pick up my child and my son made me go inside the Playboy Mansion (what I used to call Darth's home, he has since lost the home), and the Christmas tree was up. I looked at it briefly, as my son searched for his tennis shoes. I tried to quickly leave, and the Wistress caught me near the door and apparently saw me eyeing their Christmas tree.

I said "nice tree" to her and she replied "Yes, it's lovely. The TREE DECORATOR I HIRED did a gorgeous job on it didn't they?"

I almost laughed out loud to her. She and Darth actually HIRED and paid good money to some interior decorator to decorate the damn tree, and it looked almost identical to the way I do my tree at home EVERY YEAR.

So chalk that one up to the crazy mind of waywards.

Add this one to the Waywards' Life Plan:

8)After cheating your BS out of $, make sure to HIRE A DECORATOR to trim the Christmas tree or create a fabulous menorah! You can do it! You can do it all! Your wayward mind, combined with the money from your BS you stole, can afford anything! The sky is the limit! You have adonis and tiger blood! You are WINNING!

Every time your XWS tries to do something dumb and silly, using their wayward logic, just tell them this...Great! I'm glad to see you're WINNING!dear" and keep these fun pictures in your mind as you laugh at the wayward "warlock" logic...after all, with no $ in the bank, they can buy a million dollar house with their warlock mind. Their divorce from their BS was justified b/c we're trolls.

And remember this one!..This will help when the Waywards tell you all the bunk how their lives are "amazing" or "better than you could ever imagine"!

In fact, this is now a party game. Print this off and see if your Wayward can fill in the blanks if you ask them about this!

Oh this thread had made me smile.

Ginge was always so jealous of me, apparently she used to say while he was still a cake eater, that I had 90% of everything, why should I be worried about the 10% he gave her? she also suggested that we swap places so that she could live with him, I presume in our house, but that she would be fine with him having an 'affair' with me. She would have my life and would be able to show him how well she could manage a cake eater. WTF

Then her H had an affair and she spent hours crying all over my WH about how hurt she was. Never seemed to make any connections and I think it was at that point my WH began to have a reality check!


Mind I did suggest at the point of DDay that as we had never argued about money, I would sell the house, he could go live with her in her tiny little house, surrounded by all her friends (they would hardly have welcomed him with open arms) and play happy families, we'd spilt the money and I would make it all easy.

That made my WH reassess the cake eating and the NC letter was written in the hour. The thought of actually living with her terrified him!!

He still not repentant, but there is NC and we don't talk about it....quickest way for her to die, and we are beginning to recover.

It still hurts tho.

wow....this is so weird....i've been married going on 19 years this summer....found out 2 days before my birthday that my H was cheating on me.....WH told me also the same things, pretty much....so insane, his mindset and outlook....
I couln't believe it....he lost his mind! He thought we oughtta be like the parents of Reese Witherspoon on the movie "Four Christmases"....we should just get along, get together during holidays, etc.....

Very well said, my friend....

i totally feel the same way as you....my WH stated it pretty much the same way also....very twisted and delusional mindset. It is one of the ways my WH tries to brush his infidelities, his sins, under the rug...
We need to keep in mind that WS have very delusional mindsets,and have definitely lost touch with reality, anything to justify, excuse, rationalize their behaviors, and ease their guilt, if they have any, for the immense impact and damage they imposed on their betrayed spouse and/or children....

I know, it's bonkers and it's the realisation that it's bonkers that makes it easier to manage. sometimes you just have to have a quiet smile to yourself.

Of course it was all because they were so connected, almost like siblings, I did point out you don't bonk a sibling, but that didn't seem to have much impact. She even sent him an email saying how she understood that he needed both of us.......that her being able to understand that would make it easier for him if he had the affair with me and lived with her....please!

Today I'm getting there, I found a new me who is really quite amazing. He will have to run to keep up!

Right out of my POSWH mouth:

Why are you doing this? Why are you so deadset on destroying all the good memories of the children and me together... You used to ask me why do I hate you so much. I still don't hate you. Just like in the past I take all the pain you are inflicting on me and don't get mad a you. What does that say about me. Am I eternally under your spell? I don't know. I am still the same loving and careing father I have always been. This email is another example of how you blame me for everything, and right now you are on this revenge path against me and that is all that is on your mind.

He is not happy that I told the kids, and that I told him I was burying the man he is today. I would be cutting ties to him for my own sanity.

Just a couple months ago we discussed visitation. (My four kids and I now live 1500 miles west of our old house).

I said to POSWH you will need to let me know your hotel so I can bring the kids there for their visitation.

He replies, "No I thought I would stay at your apartment."
My reply, "No WH you will not be coming to my apartment for visitation."

He replies, "What am I supposed to do at a hotel with them, that is no fun. They will hate that."

My reply, "Oh well - your visitations will be happening at your hotel room.

He isn't back from deployment yet, so I know the reality hasn't sunk in. Can you imagine you will never get to make them Saturday morning pancakes, sleep with them in their own bed, wash their clothes, cuddle up on your couch for a movie, vacuum their floors, or run around with them in your backyard. He threw all of that away on his affair. He threw that part of life out like trash. Poof - It is gone, all because he thinks POSOW will give him the moon. My popcorn is in place, and I am ready to watch a good movie.

I cannot imagine living a life like this with my kids. He is in such a huge fantasy, dung fog. I am not coming out of Plan B now until NC for life is implemented. I will keep you posted on how this will all play out after he returns from deployment.

Do you have an IM? Why are you getting these kinds of messages? Are you really in dark Plan B?

AM

That was before I went into Plan B. The message was from when we were both still emailing to each other. I have been dark for three weeks now.

Cheers

Wow this thread is timely for me...I know it is old, but someone linked it from the newer thread about serial cheaters.

My ds11 is going through a really really rough patch right now...and XH is convinced that if only I would 'accept' XH's relationship with OW that ds would as well and we would all be happy.

My head has been spinning around about this for days now....I really truly want to do the right thing for our ds. I don't see though how it would do him a favor to call darkness light.

Ok here is my fantasy story
We live in a no fault state.
So a given she'll get kids, cause i of course am f'ed up
lately she has been talking....I will keep the house and the kids in it and she will live with ow
Then she will pick them up from school every day and take them to my house where she will make dinner and put them to bed. Then go back to fantasy land w ow

do i let it go for now just to get the house and the kids under my roof then move in a year or two for full custody????

or just start the big ugly's and fight for the fight
I figure the fight will cost me half, only half

but livin with the kids would be grand
livin with a committed wife and kids would b ideal

but should i just keep quiet and get what i can get cause she is sooooooo foggy and pushing the fantasy divorce thing.

I did push her a little and she threatened to move them an hour and a half away.

dont know what to do......need help

LOL this thread is funny.

What WH wants:
For us to be "friends" he tells me he doesnt want to lose my friendship...
...did I mention that he doesnt want to "lose" OW either? LOL LOL LOL
This dude even had the nerve to tell me that he did not care if he had a gf, or if I had a bf, that he still wants me. Whaaaatttt? Wow, WSs have no sense.

Im glad I saw this thread. It gave me a few good laughs.

I feel the same way!! Lights, camera, ACTION!! :-)

Well, courts are loathe to change a current and working arrangement. Write down who has the kids when, and keep at it, and you're more likely to get a favorable settlement.

Bump, what a fantastic thread!

Mine was getting very morose and unhappy (still hiding the fact he was in an A) but told me about this couple he knew who had separated then got back toghether 'because they'd stayed friends'

He got genuinely angry when I said 'But I don't want to stay friends with you if you choose to break my heart and cast me off for no good reason'

After Exposure, he said he was very angry but that when he and I had calmed down we would have to speak about the separation in order to be 'grown up' and 'civilised'. My reply was 1)I am grown up, calm and civil and 2) Um no we don't.

Well, the joke's on me - when I posted this, he'd already been married to Wifey #2 for six months!

Having a WS say that you should all get along and be nice during and after divorce because it's "civilized" is right out of the script, too - but there is nothing "civilized" about destroying your own family. Don't fall for that one, either.

WH is certainly fantasizing that we can be great friends after divorce. I was talking to him yesterday about our upcoming separation, and asked him what he would like our relationship to be like after the separation/divorce...talking, spending time together, eating dinner together? He said, Yes, then added, kind of sighing, I suppose you'd want a romantic relationship? I said, well, if we were working towards marriage, yes, otherwise, probably no relationship at all. He just doesn't get it at all!

The joke wasn't on you.
You are one quality woman working through making sense of it all.
The joke is on them. They think what they have is special. It isn't.

He affaired and then later married down.

You proved your worth as a spouse and he was blind to seeing the precious gem you proved to be.

Though you have been treated with cruelty, it was never about you. You suffer the sorrow but you do not create it.

And, btw, I think your kids are doing the best they can given the mess. It hurts when they participate in their Dad's life in such a seemingly supportive way but they don't have a manual how to maneuver the craziness.

I couldnt agree more.

The titles of husband and wife means nothing when they are both renters. Both she and he are still on the treadmill of chasing the impossible - creating something as solid as a marriage out of moonbeams, dew and of course, fog.

Indie, I know all wayward's follow the same script, but I am getting worried your WH and mine are the same, it is just too close!

My WH was telling me if I gave him "space" and "time" we would get back together. At one point when I repeated that his BIL was saying he was having an affair (prior to D Day), WH got VERY angry and berated me. The next day he was emailing and calling that he wanted us to remain "civil", and a week later, he wanted me to stay his "best friend".

He even mentioned that I should go live with his sister!

Still before D Day, I told WH that I was not sure I would want to remain friends whilst separated, that I needed to think about this and wasn't sure I would contact him again. Guess what? He started calling me.

Great post reading.

I agree. Mulan, the joke was never on you. They believe what they have is unique, whereas the love and commitment you showed WH was the unique thing. Affairs are a dime a dozen. REAL love and commitment aren't.

If he never gets it, his loss. You have shown who you are, in the face of adversity. You still fought for what is right.

I am likely to face my WH having an affairage. I know it, I expect it. It hurts. I hope I get told of the marriage date but doubt I will. I have learned from your posts, that it is better to be told than find out unexpectedly.

Reading your posts has made me cherish the SIL who told me of the OC even more than I first did. That must not have been easy for her, and I am glad I sent her a thank you acknowledging how difficult that must have been but how grateful I am.

The thing is Mulan, your WH turned his back on your commitment and love, seeking a new life. It really does say more about him, his flaws, than you.

Would you trade places?

I wouldn't.