Do you ever have days when you just don�t care anymore? If your wife or husband brought you the papers you would sign them and not even blink. Do you have times when you are tired of trying and just want it all to go away? Do you have times when the sight of your spouse makes you physically ill, when you are filled with venom and hate? You know it�s not your fault and tomorrow will probably be better, but that doesn�t help today. How do you deal with it?
Sorry for the downer. I�m not in the best of spirits this morning. Maybe I will feel better after I have some coffee.

TTF, I ride this pendulum almost every day.

The day my WW told me she wanted out of the marriage I put it in my mind to pursue a no-fault divorce in the fastest way possible. Within a week I had hired an attorney, put together a separation agreement, and the two of us signed it and had it notarized.

It wasn't until later (and a lot of LB-ing) that I came to the realization that (a) I love my wife, and (b) that she wasn't in her right mind. I decided to take steps to try to save the M.

But there are obstacles to R that many have pointed out. Some of these are obstacles that I created, some are issues with WW's FOO and past behaviors.

It's these issues that make me wonder -- on a daily basis -- if there really is any hope of us putting back together what we both worked very hard to break.

My presence on MB is twofold: To get whatever assistance I can to try to save my M, and failing that, to recover my own sense of self-worth, hope for the future, and closure. No one knows how this very painful and stressful event of our lives with turn out, and the doubt can be very debilitating.

Not downer, TTF. Simply a dose of reality.

Thanks Fred. It helps to know that others feel the same, although I wish none of us had to go through this.

Yes, I've had those days. I went so far as to program my attorney's phone number in my cell so I could call him faster. There were many, many times when I thought that was the only exit from the nightmare.
The last time I felt that way was after a R discussion, which should never have happened if I'd been following plan A, and I ended up checking this forum and realized that the Big D wasn't the way to go so I found a movie on TV and stayed up and watched it.
One night I was just so tired of it all that I basically had a meltdown. All by myself. Not fun.
I've dealt with it in different ways. I take long walks - just me and my MP3 player. I come here. I read. I scream. I look for small signs that things may get better. Anything. I spend time with the kids. I don't know how many times I visited my 18 yo daughter at work (she works PT in a retail store) just to kill time. It had a double good affect because she seemed to know why I was there and did what she could to cheer me up.

Have a cup of coffee ttf. Stay on this site for a while if you can. You're not alone, buddy.

I am right where you are TTF. I pray and try to have faith in what everyone on here says, but it is daily agony. The second guessing, the what if's.

I am trying hard to live in the moment, not focus on the past or worry about the future, but most of the time my mind doesn't let me.

I have survived some tough emotional hardships in my life and I have led Soldiers in combat, but this is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to go through. It has rocked the foundation of my inner confidence and virtually cripled me on the inside.

Some of the things that keep me going is thinking about my kids. I have to survive this - either way - and be strong for them. Also, everyone has told me that eventually, things get better.

I'm waiting for that time and trying to do the 'next right thing' to get there.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I think I�m going to take off from work early today and ride to Ellijay (a small town near me). I�m going to get some homemade apple pies and go to some antique stores. Old books and fried pies always make me feel better.

Do any of you intend on getting your spouse anything special for Christmas? I�m thinking of wrapping up a dead skunk for my wife�� just kidding.
I�m thinking of going ahead with Christmas as if nothing were wrong. I don�t expect my wife to reciprocate, but I feel for the sake of our daughter we should have Christmas, even if only 2 of the 3 of us are really interested. Any thoughts?

Last two Christmases, WH was "here" but not really "here" since he was still seeing OW.

Year one -- I bought him an iphone. Best money I ever spent because it helped me catch him in lie after lie after lie. And it revealed to me her name and email address.

Year two -- I bought him a few items... cologne and jacket. He walked out two days after Christmas leaving the cologne in his cabinet but taking the jacket. Pretty sure OW "exchanged" it for something she liked.

Either way, I had my peace. So for gifts -- do whatever you want. Never know if the gift might be a blessing in disguise.

As for Christmas blues --- HATE all the lovey, dovey jewelry commericals. If they only knew what might happen down the line AFTER 24 years of marriage.......

TTF, Ellijay, GA? If so, OMG--I love that place!!

Christmas blues fueled by all those commercials.

The worst offender of the bunch for the BS...Kay jewelers.

Great if your R is good but lets just pour more salt into the septic wounds that are inflicted on us.

Pulling out the Christmas stuff and finding the 3 Santa mugs -- one with XH name, finding "his" ornaments, his stocking and the list goes on.

I thought about putting coal in his stocking and leaving it on his desk at work. How's that going for you?

Like others here I need to carry on. Need to remember the reason for the season. Yes it is the season of miracles and I believe.

Thanks everyone for your input. Yes StillDawn,Ellijay Ga. I live just about 30 min. away. Ellijay is a great little town, especially in the fall and winter.

I believe that the best way to chase away the blues of any kind is to give to someone else...a smile, a helping hand, a card, a phone call etc. Do not expect to receive any thing back- just give.

It makes your heart feel good-and puts the focus off you and what seems to be the heaviest weight on your shoulders.

Also- meet each day with no expectation- for surely this always brings disappointment...instead meet the day ready to be surprised- its amazing what can lift your spirits in that frame of mind.

We are promised the day...what you choose to do with it is entirely up to you.

I am also constantly reminded that being strong doesn't mean not feeling emotion- it is healthy and necessary. And totally your choice.

And today I am rejoicing in the beauty of all that white stuff that is evoking the feeling of anger that I am the one who has to worry about removing it off all the nice cement that we use to park and walk on!!! When is the first day of summmer?!!!

So, so true. Doing the tree with the boys because WW "doesn't have time" because she needs to study for an exam 8 days later? Resentment? You bet. Of the gazillion ornaments, the boys just by chance pull out the one we got from the jeweler where we bought W's wedding ring. And of course there's the ornament that has both of our names on it that the boys end up putting on the tree as well. And they say all things happen for a reason, right?

At some point, the light bulb went on. Maybe some of the folks here helped turn on the switch. The fact is, though, I finally realized that I have two unbelievably wonderful gifts -- my two boys. And I realized how THANKFUL I am to have them. To have the opportunity to decorate a tree with them. To be there FOR THEM. Sure they may know their mother bumped them down her totem pole of priorities, but Dad hasn't, and NEVER WILL. OM may be a higher priority for W. Probably law school too. That's HER world, though. They're kids, and Christmas time means the world to kids. And it's my job to deliver. Because that's MY priority.

So, I've been able to avoid the Christmas blues, to a certain degree. I'm a sentimental guy, though. I have a romantic outlook with Christmas time. Sitting on the couch together in front of a fire and the tree, listening to Christmas music, or watching 'A Christmas Story' over and over again, because, well, TNT shows on a continuous loop. Or her and I staying up late to wrap. So, it's tough.

Look, I'm with the rest of you. This is no picnic. But don't lose sight of the good stuff. Don't think of things as better or worse than the past. Just different. Hey, W used to do the perfect tree with everything in just the right place. Me and the boys this year? Well, let's just say it's "different". And that's okay. I'm doing the best I can with what I have.

And really, isn't that all we can ask of anyone?

TB

I�m committed to not be the one that ruins Christmas. My wife will have to look back on this after the fog lifts, and it will one day. She can sit around in her own little self serving, self absorbed world if she wants to, as for me and my little girl, were going to have Christmas.

Yep, at least 3x per week. The world of the betrayeds.

I live just South of Ball Ground!

I spend alot of my time in Dahlonega though as that's where I keep my plane.

X-mas was always my favourite time of year - this year I just feel numb - I haven't even looked at any of the X-Mas DVD's I usually watch - it's just not the same anymore. I have decorated the house and I feel absolutely nothing.The kids want WH to spend X-Mas Day at home and after he will walk away again to stay in his parents house - I am not sure yet how I will handle that - I wasn't too bad until I had a huge fight with WH about money - and a stupid fight too - and since then I haven't been able to pick myself up again - I guess I have learned that I am still the enemy for him

I understand how you feel. This will be my first Christmas without my WH. I do plan on getting him a couple of gifts and wrapping them and putting them up so when he finally comes around I will give them to him then. At least I know he won't be able to afford very much so she won't get very much or at least it will be cheap. Me, I was always happy with whatever I got because as long as everyone else was taken care I was happy. I never needed anything expensive, just anything would do as long as he got it for me and picked it out himself. It could of cost just $5 and I would have been happy. This year I won't even get a card and that is what hurts,but I will be ok. I will have my parents, my 2 daughters and my friends. I refuse to have anything bother me and I am going to decorate my house like I always do.

BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009

It does get easier trust me on this. It's been two years without my xWH and this is the first year i threw out the tree orniments that were "ours." It was kinda tough but not really. My daughter is two so it was fun watching her want to put alllll the decorations around the bottom of our tree. It is the two of us now and she is so into christmas this year that it has truely helped.

As someone one said before me things may not be the same they are just different now. New traditions are to be made with the two of us no matter who is in our lives. I try to cheer myself up through the down times by looking at my daughter and realizing why i do all of this. For her and her pure heart. I hope i can always keep it that way for her.

I haven't even SEEN my family for three years now.

The last time I saw them I was still crippled at Christmas time, so my final memories were unpleasant.

And Christmas eve was when I exposed to OMW.

I literally dragged myself out to my truck and drove it by pushing the gas with a cane.

Just checking in TTF - how were the pies?
Is today better?

Linus

Thanks every one for chiming in. It really is a small world, Pariah and Linus. It�s crazy that we live so close.
My trip to Ellijay got derailed because one of my wife good friends called me worried about her. By the time our conversation was over I had confirmation that my wife�s EA is actually a PA�..not good news.
I got a name to go with the phone number that�s been showing up on my bill, it�s not even who I thought it was.
She has been meeting him on her lunch hour when he�s in town. She also confirmed that she has a throw-away phone, I knew it.
There have been several trips that she went on with one of her girlfriends, I thought, they were actually with him.
I knew it, deep down I knew it. I just didn�t want to admit it to myself. This morning I have a feeling it my heart that I�ve never felt before, it�s profound, it goes beyond sadness, and I want it to go away.
Today I open a new chapter of my life, one where I have to look at my wife, the person that I swore before God I would never forsake, as an enemy.
Everything being equal�I�d rather be eating apple pie.

Oh wow, TTF, I feel for you. I really do. I doubt there's not a BS here who doesn't know how you're feeling right now.

While it can't make the pain and anguish go away, coming here and sharing about can help.

Christmas blues is right! Last year even though WW and i were separated we spent Christmas morning and afternoon together as a family. After i left I really felt down and just depressed. It felt like it was probably the last time we would spend Christmas together.

This year I put up the tree and decs with my boys. WW has yet to put hers up. Since I'm in plan B I'm not quite sure how to approach this this year. I had let WW know that ths year the boys are with me and I plan on having them wake up at my place on Chritsmas morning. I said i didn't care what time she dropped them off on Christmas Eve but they will wake up at my place. She asked if she could spend some time with them on Christmas Day and I referred her back to the letter. No contact until...well you all know.

Problem is that now I'm having doubts about that position. I just feel aweful that the kids won't see their mom on Christmas day. I plan on buying gifts for her from the boys but i do not plan on giving her anything from me. And I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do. It feels like I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. The whole thing just leaeves me feeling anxious and saddened. How have you all delt with Christmas while in plan B?

Damn, that's bad news. But at least now you know. Now you can start to deal with it. I'm thinking that you can still 'plan A', but the contact HAS TO STOP. We (my WW and me) made NO progress until that happened, and then it was like a switch was flipped. Well, that and the fact that we found a great counselor . . . and I found this place.
You have an uphill battle, my friend, but you have a team of supporters.

That�s right contact has to stop. I plan on confronting her once I have the proof, but then what? Can I legally tell my wife that she can have no contact with her daughter until her affair stops? I plan on exposing to everyone in our circle. But then what? She needs a hard, cold, dose of reality. What�s the best way to proceed?

What I did was place a voice activated recorder in my XW's car and get the conversations between her and the OM and the cheerleading toxic friend.

The phone bill would be nice.

Your wife is going to lie to you and gaslight you.

You need to EXPOSE to everyone, your church, her parents, her family, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the other man's WIFE and family.

It MUST be done immediately.

If you'd like pix of them together, I'm sure some of us North Georgia folk could manage to swing by their haunt and snap a few pix and extort a little cash from OM.

Pariah & Linus, when this is all over I'm going to look yall up and buy you a beer....or 12.

TTF

I know this is hard for you. I apologize for my earlier post as i didn't realize you had posted your most recent discovery. My post was in response to your original.

I don't think there's anything you can do about your WW contacting your daughter. IMO that would actually be an LB. Your daughter should know what's going on though. How old is she?

Telling my 7 and 9 yr olds was difficult but had to be done. I assured them that they were not the problem and that both me and WW love them. But i had to be sure they were aware that their moms behavior was unacceptable. They really got it.

Hey TTF! I wrote you in your other post about keyloggers. I didn't realize you had this one to.
I and from the Atlanta area. What is with GA and affairs? You should take a look at my post "W is depressed, marriage in trouble" and see all the great advice people are giving in there too.
Just installed my records. 2 in the house and 1 in the car. Unfortunitely she has the choice of 2 cars. 50/50 shot. But they mostly txt each other and she deletes them every time.
I found some forensic software today that I might try. It can retrieve txt (among other things) off of her phone even if it has been deleted. I hope it works with her phone. I wil try on mine first. If it doesn't I may have to buy he a NEW (spy friendly) PHONE for christmas. If your W has a phone with a sim card, they have sim card readers that can be very handy.

OMG...I can't believe I'm hearing that you guys are in Ballground and surrounding areas. My daughter went to the university in Dahlonega for a few years. Beautiful place. I'm from a town south of the airport that a certain famous country singer is from. Small, small world.

StillDawn, I think I know where your from. I ride to Ballground a lot just to eat at Williams Brothers. And if your from where I think your from, I love to eat at Sprayberrys BBQ. In fact I'll be down there next week.

Yep. You know, we have two of those now!!! This place has grown tremendously--Do you go to the "original" one or the new one? I've eaten their bar-b-que all my life and I guess I'm a little burned out on it!!

I go to the old original. I've not eaten at the new one. I love the slaw, it's the best of any BBQ joint I've ever eaten.

I usually go to the Williams Brother's in Marietta over by the Big Chix.

I have meaning to try Swallow At The Hollow for a while now, but never can get the time. It's supposed to be as good as Dreamland's

If you want to go to the newer one TTF, just take the exit, go down 2 traffic lights and it will be on your left. They are the same foodwise, just a little nicer facility.
Sorry for the T/J but I didn't know there were so many people here that were so close by...it's amazing!! I try to stay out of the "big city" if I can help it!! People are nuts up there!!

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We will all get through this together. This is a great place to be even if the reasons we are all here are horrible. Excellent support and I appreciate everyone here.

It's good to talk to the locals. I'm headed to town to buy a voice recorder. I'll see yall after lunch.

Hi BTinBL. How true this ring. That is all we can ask of anyone. I have been struggling like many others but when you have kids no matter what the age you realize it is not all about ourselves but them.

I am Thankful for my girls, my health, and my survival.

I too am a great fan of "Christmas Story". I actually own the DVD and a few years ago my girls bought me a scaled down version of the "Leg Lamp". It is something that I treasure in its tacky form!

I appreciate your posting because it does remind me for what I have not the what I want. Thanks.

You're on! I'm sure we can find a Taco Mac close by . . .

Corner of 575 and Hwy 20 exit 19.

Brand spankin new one!

I'll be there. You'll be able to recognize me by the knife sticking out of my back. Just laid dowm $75 for a digital recorder. I hope I have an opportunity to plant it tonight.

I bought 3 for $55 each. And I plan on getting another one for the other car. Plus - I am going to get eblaster 2nit - another %$100 out of my allowance. But all worth it if it works.
I also mentioned the forensic software (on this post or another). It has a 7day free trial but if you want to buy it, it costs over $1k. Not going to get that. If the trial can grab the recent deleted txt from her phone, that should be fine.

It is amazing to me that with the thousands of people from all over the world posting on this site, that there are at least 4 of us in the No. GA area all being connected by similar circumstances. Is it something in the H20 from Lake Lanier?

Linus,I wonder the same thing. It's crazy. It must be a local virus or something. I'll see everybody in the morning.

In an earlier post I stated Williams Brothers BBQ was in Ballground, it's actually in Canton. My fingers outran my brain.

Topic of the day.
How much info did you compile before you busted your wayward spouse? When you finally did lower the boom, how did you do it?
I know we are all here to try to save our marriages, but you have to think of yourself also.
I believe you have to pray for the best but plan for the worst. Are you supposed to wait until you think you have an ironclad case for divorce, one that gives you the best possible outcome in court? If you jump on your spouse sooner than you should you might miss something. If you wait to long your wife/husband just slips farther away. It�s a double edge sword.
At this point I still want to save my family. But I�m realistic enough to know that I might not be able to. If I can�t I don�t want to get reamed in court.
Where do you draw the line? Thanks.

In my case, it worked the other way around. WW first told me she wanted out of the M. The next day, when I asked her if there was someone else, she simply said "yes."

It was only then that I went into detective mode. It wasn't but a few days later when I deduced the identity of the OM, and when I presented her with my conclusion, she admitted to his identity.

Not until I came to MB did I go into snoop mode, as exposing the A was deemed a critical part of the recovery process.

WW and I had already specified a date on which she would move out, signed a Separation and Property Settlement Agreement (SPSA) and were on the fast track to D.

Even though MB taught me about infidelity and how a WS thinks, and it gave me hope that the M could be saved, the reality is that I think WW will never want to come back, even after the A ends. And I have reached a point of my own that makes me doubt that I could take her back -- that I don't have the patience or fortitude it takes to build a new relationship.

That part saddens me, but it's a reality I have to face. I have six months from D-Day to wait it out and see what happens. I think that if there is no change in status by then, I will go ahead and file and continue to build the life without WW I am starting with Plan B.

I had compiled quite a bit. My keylogger includes screenshots, so I had lots of shots from FB that showed messages back and forth before they were deleted. I copied and pasted everything (screenshots and keystroke logs) to a Word doc and saved it on a secure drive. I updated it daily.

Finally, after a few weeks, I couldn't take anymore. I printed out one particular set of messages where they both sounded like 12 year olds ('we were meant to be together', 'I want to be the one who kisses you awake in the morning (him to her) and other garbage that made me want to gag). I should say they never ever had sexually explicit chats. But the stuff was bad enough. I put the printout in a sealed envelope and put it in my desk.

I then told her we needed to talk, and told her that I felt like OM was still interfering with our relationship (she had claimed that their contact was minimal, and he was only listening to her as a 'concerned friend'). She said that there had been no contact for 'a while'. I asked her to look me in the eye and tell me there was nothing more going on and that contact was over. She said yes, it was over. I calmly got up, got the envelope, gave it to her and told her she should take a look at what was in the envelope. I told her to then destroy it so our kids wouldn't see it. That led to an ugly, long session where everything came out, and I said that if we were to have any chance at all and we were going to continue counseling, all contact with OM had to stop.

I'm making a long story short here. It really was a miserable day. But, she took OM off of her FB 'friends' list, blocked him, and ended contact that afternoon. She immediately entered the withdrawal stage, and that hasn't been fun, but we're making progress. This was 3 weeks ago and there has been no contact with OM since. I think my exposing her as a liar that day finally struck a nerve. We never discussed where I got the information, and I still have the keylogger doing it's thing to this day.

One final point - she has a sister who lives close to us, and who was aware of some of what was going on. Her sister and I have had confidential talks about our situation also, and I trust her. She's been supporting me as much as she can. The day of the blowup, WW went to her sisters and told her that she realized how out of control things had become, and was ending the 'friendship' with OM for good.

Time will tell.

Yes time will tell. I have to control the almost irrepressible urge to spill my guts, to let her know what I know and what I think. I just got off the phone with her mother; her entire family is working with me. Her mother agreed to turn her away on confrontation day; because that�s the first place she�ll run. She said that she can�t come home until she has a change in her life, keep in mind her father is a preacher. That will help my cause tremendously.
I am like you though, the damage is done. Can it ever be fully repaired? No, I don�t think it will ever be the same. Even if we reconcile, the scar tissue will always be there. And I don�t know if my wife�s guilt will ever let her recover. She hasn�t just quit me she�s quit her daughter, her home, everything that was once important. My wife�s normally southern accent has actually changed in the last 3 months or so. Is that not crazy? She is a different creature; if I knew I had to live the rest of my life with this alien I would grant her a divorce tomorrow. It�s a wonderful world we are living in.

i am glad your in-laws are there to help you. i wish more people were like that. it does help a lot especially if the WS has no place else to go. My xWH parents told me he is an adult and they would not interfer with his choices even if they didn't approve of them. Two years later they are telling the OW what they told me about her being the daughter they never had. It is very reassuring to know that there are some parents out there willing to help when it matters most. I think that too will help you with recovery.

Dropped the bomb last night...not good. My wife admitted to everything. She said she is in love with this guy and doesn't care if I know or anybody else for that matter. I am physically sick. It all came out last night, she told me not to worry about it, that she didn't mind taking the blame, it was over for us long ago, we should have never been married to start with. I didn't realize that I could hurt so much. God help me. My family is in ruins.

Another befogged WS, reading right from the "script."

I'm sorry you're here, going through this, TTF. This is the place to vent, cry, hurt -- and recover.

The good people here will hold you, hug you, and help you understand and heal.

And if you let them, and if you want it, and are willing to go to the needed lengths to get it, they will help you recover your M.

The choice is up to you.

Time to cut her off financially.

The affair can't be fed whatsoever.

Sorry it's gotten this bad TTF, but just remember that a lot of what you're going to hear from WW is fogtalk. She's in shock right now because her fantasyland life has been exposed. Fred is right - it's from the WW 'script'.
Hang tough, my friend. You have help and support from a whole lotta really good people on this board. I know it's not much right now, but it will help.
Do you have a pastor or best buddy that you can talk to?

TTF- don't give up man. Keep reading. This is the same "fog speak script" that my WW is currently saying. This is normal WW behavior.

Thanks everyone, I have taken all the money out of the account,I also canceled her internet (Blackberry is in 1 million pieces). I am having a real hard time, the stuff I read on her facebook pages are etched into my brain. I'll never look at her the same again, I just don't see how it's possible. She's already called me this morning wanting a new phone. Can you believe it? I told she was welcome to a new phone but I had a block on the internet. She pitched a fit and said she would open a new contract, I told her to have at it.

Stay calm man. No angry outbursts. I think you are right to do the things you are doing, but try to do them calmly. Stay in control. Expect her anger and stay one step ahead of her.

Remember WHY you are trying to save your marriage. She is following the script. Hang in there.

Don't pay for ANYTHING any more, except food in the house that you also eat. She pays for gas, she pays for phone...she wants free of you, let her see what that really means. Let this wonderful man pay for all of it.

Did you expose?

You need to do it TODAY, before she calls everyone and tells them the 'good news' and tells them all it's all your fault. Once she does that, no one will listen to your side.

The reason she says that she doesn't care if you expose is to prevent you from doing it. RIGHT NOW she is implimenting damage controll by telling EVERYONE you are abusive and insane.


The evidence needs to come to light immediately, even that she will claim is fabricated.

I did expose. Her parents, my parents, brothers, sisters. I'm talking to the Pasture at 3:00. She was mad, very upset that I talked to her parents. She said it was her place and I had no right. I told her she lost all her rights when she stepped out. I'm sure she wanted to tell them to put her own spin on things. I cut her off at the pass. My daughter also heard the whole thing go down last night, not what I wanted, but it forced WW to tell her the truth.

I'm on my way to pick up my daughter and to go see the Pastor. I would like to ask everyone to please pray for my family. Just mention TTF tonight and He will take care of the rest. Thank you.

Good luck TTF. WW can't do it alone. You can't fix marriage alone. God can fix anything.

Godspeed buddy - we're with you all the way

TTF, I haven't read your whole thread but will catch up soon. I can tell you're in a bad spot and all of my prayers will be with you tonight.

Optimism

WW is spewing the usual junk to justify her affair.

Ignore it!

I had another long night last night. My wife says it�s all over, she loves this man, he makes her feel good about herself, things I never did.
I ask her if she was going to file for a divorce and she said yes, after Christmas.
I have exposed her to everyone of any importance and have sent OM an e-mail (he did not reply). She says that she doesn�t care and she is thru with me. She said most of the script stuff. I heard: I was thru with us before any of this ever happened. I went looking for someone to fill the void where you were supposed to be, I heard it all.
By the way; I don�t know if I ever mentioned that she was doing all this while I was building her a house. While I was working on our house at night she was having phone sex with him, disgusting.
I�m not sure where to go from here; it�s obvious to me that the wife I loved is dead. I do not know this woman who has replaced her. I gave her the opportunity last night to turn it over to God. She�s not having any part of it.
One part of me wants to save my family. The other part knows that know matter what happens, the damage is done. I�ll never see my wife the same way.
She says she has no intention of stopping her adultery; I have no right to stand in the way of her happiness.
I thought about contacting OM friends via facebook, to let them know what these two have done. I would like for them to know that a certain little girl had her world ripped apart for Christmas. I would like for them to know that he is at least half responsible.
I can�t stop the affair, so I can�t institute any kind of plan. Does anyone have any advice?

At this point you should be telling EVERYONE what they are doing.

Is she moving out? If so, tell her she will NOT take your daughter with her.

Is she financially independent?

ABSOLUTELY do not move out of YOUR home.

Keep the voice recorder handy at all times so she can't accuse you of abuse and have the police throw you out.

The OM needs to see her as too costly to continue, so the financial route is the best way to go.

Your children need to know that she is planning to nuke the family for another man after Christmas, record her saying this so she can't LIE to them.

She IS going to LIE, they ALL lie, she will continue to LIE until the affair is broken up.

I have told everyone that I thought would have an impact on her. Her entire family knows. Her sister called me about an hour ago. She told me that WW sent her a text asking if her husband would mind checking on me to see if I was o.k. Her reply was �why should you care� I love my sister-in-law.
She did at first try to take our daughter; the night I confronted her she started packing. I told her she was welcome to leave�.alone. This did not sit well and it almost got physical, I have never in the 13 years I�ve known my wife laid a hand on her in anger. I was prepared to do so that night, the pain, the confusion, the betrayal was almost more than I could stand. In the end I won, without violence. I told her that this was our daughter�s home; WW was the one who betrayed her family. She will not take our daughter out of her home until she has a legal court document entitling her to do so.

TTF, nothing has changed here except that the affair is closer to ending today than it was 2 days ago. Now it will start to crumble. It has been propped up on the fumes of fantasy but you have ruined that by shining a light on it.

I would expose this affair everywhere. Expose to OM's facebook friends, especially his PARENTS. His parents may object to his affair with a married woman.

You should be ENCOURAGED by these recent developments, not discouraged. All the crap your wife is saying is the classic fogbabble of a falling down drunk. It is meaningless. your job is to make as much trouble in the affair as possible in order to hasten its death. That means exposure and having a face to face with the OM. OM are weener cowards and often dump the WS at the first sign of trouble. Go see him and ask him what his intentions are with your wife. Let him know that if this comes to a legal action, that he will hauled into court to give testimony under oath about his adultery.

So, stop being discouraged, you are closer to a resolution than you were 2 days ago.

Here is your PLAN right here:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Has your daughter been told the truth about her mother's adultery?

TTf, can you give me a quick run down and save me from having to read the entire thread?

1. is the OM married and if so, does his wife know? What does he do for a living?

2. do they work together? if so, has the affair been exposed at work?

3. any other affairs in your marriage?

4. are you legally married?

MelodyLane is absolutely right - you're better off now than you were 2 days ago. The fantasy is exposed, and it's starting to crumble.

You're right in saying that YOU can't stop the affair - only she can. But, you have started the demise by exposing and going into Plan A.

Hard to believe this is progress, I know. It sounds like you did a great job of exposure, and it sounds like everyone is on your side. Give your SIL a hug when you see her.

One way or another, ttf, you can start rebuilding your life now. I hope things work out well for you. It will be a long haul, and you're friends here will be with you all the way.

MelodyLane, yes my daughter does know, unfortunately she heard it all go down. I feel bad about that but she is 12 and deserves to know it for the horrible, destructive, selfish thing that it was. It was not my intention for her to hear, it just happened. But it was probably a good thing, this caused WW to sit down with her and admit what she did.
As for the rundown:
1 OM lives in England, they met thru facebook, and he is divorced (imagine that). I know of a least 1 instance where she has picked him up at the airport.
2 I have not exposed to his facebook family yet, although I did send him an e-mail inviting him to step outside. He did not respond.
3 No other affairs.
4 We have been married for 11 years and have a 12 year old daughter.

TTF, how do you know the OM is divorced?

And has your DD been told the TRUTH or has she been SPUN by your W? Have you sat her down and given her moral guidance about adultery?

Will you please start writing a letter that you can send out to all of OM's FB friends and let us give you feedback? It should contain facts, ie: joe is having an adulterous affair with my wife. We are married for 11 years and have a 12 yr old DD. I am asking you to use your influence to persuade JoeScum to leave my wife alone so we can save our marriage. i would also ask that Joe's parents contact me directly at email@address.com.

Where does this bum work? What does he do?

What did the pastor say to you both?

Has she thrown the "god wants ME to be happy" bit yet in your face?

Does she have a divorced or slutty toxic friend cheerleading her on?

also, I really need for you to calm down and stay focused on your PLAN. You can't allow yourself to get sidetracked by some minor meaningless skirmishes. I know this is painful for you, but your wife's fogbabble is nothing more than a minor distraction. It means nothing. She is a falling down drunk who has no more idea of what she wants than a wet brain drunk. That will all change when the affair dies.

So, don't make the mistake of focusing on her fogbabble, it is MEANINGLESS. What matters is your PLAN.

Can you stay focused and put aside her fogbabble? Because if you get this upset over a little fogbabble, you are going to collapse under some REAL FIRE. This is not real enemy fire. This is SMOKE.

FACEBOOK LETTER 1st DRAFT

I do not know what your relationship to xxxxxxx is, but it is important that you know that for about the last 6 months xxxxxx has been engaging in an adulterous relationship with my wife. My wife and I have a 12 year old daughter her name is xxxxx. Together they have destroyed her life. A little girl is devastated at Christmas because of the actions these two. A family is torn apart. If you see xxxxxx tell him congratulations, he is a wonderful human being. My name here.
Coments Please.

Dear Facebook friend of Joe Scumbag,

I am the husband of SallyWW in Timbuktu, Ohio. Your friend, Joe is having an adulterous affair with my wife of 11 years. We have a 12 year old daughter. I am writing you to ask you to use your influence to persuade Joe to leave my family alone.

This affair has been conducted mostly over the internet since ____DATE___ but he did come to America on july 1, XXXX and see my wife in person. My wife and I have a very heartbroken 12 year old daughter, Susie, whose life has been turned upside down the week before Christmas because of her mother's affair with Joe.

I am asking that you use your influence to persuade Joe to leave my wife alone. There is no future with his affair with my wife because he will be eternally hated by our daughter and by my wife's family. Please urge your friend to do the decent thing for a change and end his affair with my wife.

In case this man denies his affair, I am more than willing to provide evidence to anyone who asks. Additionally, I would ask that someone please call Joe's PARENTS and ask them to email me at email@address.com. I would like to speak to them personally. Joe has represented himself as "divorced" in order to seduce my wife. If this is not true, I would appreciate the true facts.

thank you for your help. Sally's loving husband, TTF

Wow Mel, that was awesome. Do you have something similar to post on WW's FB page to her friends? Or is that not something you recommend?

Thanks SOL, just use that and change it up to suit your purposes. If your wife is having an affair, I would send it to her FB friends.

TTF, have your exposure targets spoken to your wife? They could help tremendously if they all called her TODAY and asked her to knock it off! This will put great pressure on her to kill her affair if she is able to see how sleazy and stupid she looks through the eyes of others. You very much need these ppl to put pressure on her!

Thank guys & gals, please continue to post on this thread, I need all the help and advice I can get. I have to leave work now to pick up my daughter at school, I will be back in the morning. Thanks again.


MelodyLane, only my sistr-in-law has made it clear to her how she feels at this point. Her father has talked to her a little but not much. This is going to change.

GOOD! You need their help NOW to use their influence with her.

Good morning, I�ve been back and fourth in my mind as to what I wanted to do about all this. At times I feel so hurt and betrayed that I hate my wife and wish she would just go away. At other times I am sad and sentimental and wish I could change her heart.
After a lot of praying and soul searching I realize what is in front of me. I believe with all my heart that God wants me to fight for my family; I believe that this is a mountain that must be climbed.
I may not win, but I will do everything in my power to remove this invader from my home. And I pray that when this is over that God will give me the wisdom and compassion to look past my pain and forgive my wife.

My question for this morning is; what now?
I�m setting up a facebook page and yahoo email account to get my letter out to OM�s friends. There are also a few more people on my side of the family that need to be told. I am also going to have another pow-wow with her father today. But then what? I hate to sound ignorant but that is exactly what I am, I don�t have a clue.
Everything so far has just rolled off her back, or at least from all outward appearances. She is so wrapped up in this that the most beloved and respected man in her life, her father, can�t even put a dent in her heart. She believes that I have somehow managed to turn her family against her. In her words; �You can have my family if you want them�.
I know no matter how she tries to seem on the outside that she has to be hurting on the inside. As evil as it sounds, I need to be able to use this pain and rejection to my advantage somehow. I don�t believe she will start to come around until she hits rock bottom. I need to feed her misery while it�s there, because her family will eventually forgive her. And they are the best weapon I have right now.
What are your thoughts?

Yeah, right. It's working. IMO, what she really needs is more contact with her family with them telling her how disappointed they are. It's the disappointment that gets to them. We never want to think that our important people judge us and find us lacking. I would ask them to not stop commenting to her - not nonstop so that she avoids them altogether, just occasionally to catch her off guard. Christmas is an especially good time to do this.

And it's not evil. It's war. A war HER family wants you to win.

Thanks Catperson, I'm fixin to (that's Southern for "about to")give her father a copy of some of the facebook love letters that I printed. His heart is going to break. But I feel it needs to be as real to him as it is to me.

Also, does anyone have any tips or advice about posting messages to his facebook friends? Can I just pick someone to send a message to or do they have to be my friend first? My first messages are going out to the people who share his last name, then all the young attractive women on his page, maybe I�ll get lucky and find another woman caught up in this. Then everyone else, there are 62 in all.

TTF, your plan should be to finish up exposures and then get onto the next items on the list I gave you. Make your exposure as impactful as possible. Enlist as much help as possible. And get it done today so it has a tsunami effect. If any relative tells you they will "keep it a secret" implore them NOT to do that! Affairs thrive on secrecy so you need them to call her if they will.

I would send the facebook message to ALL his friends.

This exposure will cause great conflict in her affair and it will start crumbling fast. As it crumbles, you will be there to catch her with open arms. But, it will be your job to keep CONSTANT PRESSURE ON THE AFFAIR. Anytime she contacts the OM, confront her about it. Don't allow her to conduct her affair from your home. Tell her she has to take her affair conversations ELSEWHERE, that is disrespectful and cruel to conduct her affair from the safe home of you and your child.

Get it? Make a boat load of trouble..

You got it!!

Go to the OM's facebook page and click on "see all" under his friends section. A list of his friends will come up. You will have to click on each person individually and click on the link "send Joe a message" right under their profile picture. It will be labor intensive, but worth it.

you don't have to be their friend to do this.

Thanks, I am plowing a path of destuction as we speak. It just accured also to me to call the wife of her former Pastor and have her call WW. Just to offer incouragment of couse. I am not going to get any supper tonight for sure. I am an evil man.

You got it!! TTf, don't let up. Get this done in one fell swoop so you can move onto the next phase of the plan. She is going to be MAD about exposure, so you need to get your money's worth and quickly move onto Phase 11. Cause as much hell in the affair as you possibly can. And keep up the pressure.

Is the next phase after exposure plan A?

I only got 17 messages sent on facebook before it gave me a warning to stop. Does anyone know what this is or a way around it?

give it 10 minutes or so...it thinks you are a spam bot

Thanks, it's working again.

OK, my wife just called and is livid. Quote: �You�re being childish and you have been reported to the police. Our marriage is over, it�s been over, and nothing you can do or say can change that. You might as well get used to it. I have lost all respect for you; any remorse I felt just went out the window. You make me laugh.�

I told her if it were so great why she would care, I just took something that was hiding in the dark and brought it into the light. I told her I was fighting with the only weapon I have, the truth. She was the one who betrayed her family.

Wait, she just called and told me that if I drove him away that she would find someone else. She said that she is filling for divorce tomorrow. This is bad she does not make idle threats, have I made a mistake.

Your exposure is WORKING!!! GOOD JOB!!! The quicker and angrier the response from the WS, the closer to the bullseye your hit was!!! I know it's horrible to listen to what she says, but really and truly, this is a good sign. Every nasty word she utters it a point for you. You are winning this battle. And remember, the battle is against the affair. This has definitely crumbled some of its foundation.

She can't file if she's broke.

If it wasn't getting to her, if she wasn't ashamed, she wouldn't be calling you nonstop, determined to prove to you that she doesn't care.

Hang tight.

We TOLD you she would act this way, and she is. Spend some time reading other threads here, to see that she is doing and saying EXACTLY what all waywards do. Down to the exact words.

Deep breaths.

If she talks to you again, say 'I'm baking some cookies, would you like some?

My WW had almost the exact same reaction. Stay the course. She is spewing this venom because you are threatening her 'crack pipe'. I had the exact same second-guessing thoughts last week.

My WW told me she was "talking to an attorney tomorrow" for 4 days in a row without actually doing it. Eventually she did talk to one and I think it was a good thing because it showed her the reality of what a divorce would really mean for us both.

Your exposure has brought reality into her fantasy relationship. Hang tough. I used the line, "I was just spreading the joyous news of your new love", and "I'm only saying the truth and we need to procede in honesty".

My XW NEVER threatened an attorney.

She just dumped me off on the side of the road and had a LSA in my face before the cold wore off.

If she was serious, you'd never see it coming.

BTW did you ask when the police were arriving?

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I need them. It didn�t take 30 minutes from the time I started sending e-mails until she called. She let me have it; I didn�t know she could cuss like that. I have got to admit though I�m skeptical; she is really a driven woman when she wants to be.
What do I do now? Do I just sit back and wait?

Are the police there yet?

Just make sure you keep that recorder handy for when she gets home to prove you haven't harmed her, in case she does pull something stupid.

The first nuclear weapon women use is a restraining order against the BH as punishment for "humiliating" them.

Women are nasty, vicious creatures.

I laughed at the police thing. Does this ever get any better?

I don't know, mine went horribly, horribly wrong.

I'll let you know if my sitch ever does....

TTF, yes, it definitely will get better.

If you can at all, just for a second, put yourself in WW place. You just dropped a huge bomb on her so-called "relationship" and have utterly and totally embarrassed her. Her wayward mind was already convincing herself that she wanted out and now she's even more angry. She "thinks" she hates you but it's just the crack screwing with her mind.

IGNORE IT. Every word. She's going to rant and rave because you are "meddling", "interfering", etc. Well good for you! You are standing up for what's right, exactly what REAL MEN do. Don't fear the waywards, they are typically harmless.

Now, having said all that, there are some women, as Pariah points out, that can be particularly vicious and will strike back with vengeance. Is that the kind of person your WW is? If so, then you need to prepare yourself. I don't see any info in your sig. Do you have kids? If so, she'll likely use those as leverage. Know your rights. If you haven't already, it's probably a good idea to talk to a lawyer, just so you know your rights. But watch out for the scumbags, they will just inflame you and get you to do something stupid.

The most important thing right now is to stay cool and calm, particularly when she comes home. It's going to be real tough and if you don't feel like you can stand it, then go out for a walk or a drive or something. Avoid LBs - its times like these when its easy to cave in and start reacting out of fear. Don't let fear control you.

BTW, "better" is a relative term. Right now, to you TTF, "better" probably means recovering the marriage, restoring the love, etc., etc.

That's what every BS wants. But then I realized that there are different interpretations of "better". Right now, "better" is all about me - making myself the better man, being the better father, showing my WW that I AM a great husband. It doesn't necessarily mean that my M is going to recover but I can wake up every morning and look in the mirror and know that I am a great person.

That's part of what Plan A is all about - making you a "better" person; someone that your WW will want to come back to. Does it always work? Of course not. But if you stick to the plan, you will be able to walk out of this nightmare with your head held high because you played the game the best you could.

Do you have a recorder? I would have it turned on as soon as she comes home. Just in case her OW is convincing her to have you kicked out of the house by telling the cops that you beat her, or rape her, or molest the kids. Chances are she'll wimp out, but if she DOES turn into a 3 headed monster, you will want proof that YOU did nothing. Video camera or voice recorder.

She is pretty strong willed but not violent. So I don�t think it will come to blows. She has been busted and is humiliated and she hates my guts right now. The thing is I don�t feel the slightest bit of remorse, this mess is hers, and this is reality. If this storybook romance of hers can survive this then I guess it was meant to be. The thing that worries me is her pride; she may keep on going just so she can say she won. If that�s the case then I am prepared to let her go.

Well, I - and several others - am more concerned that she will use the legal system against you. It is this.easy for a woman to call the cops and SAY you are hurting her or your kid, and BAM! you're out of the house and you can't do a thing about it. That's what the recorder is for. There's a poster here who, each time he swaps kids with his wife - in a public parking lot no less, he has to keep the recorder going; she keeps charging him with domestic violence and stuff.

Just a safety precaution.

DON'T STOP!! Keep it up and get er done! Your exposure is working, so get it ALL DONE TODAY. Stop taking your wife's calls.

She may be strong-willed and throw the mother of all hissies, but you my friend are the calm in the middle of the storm. She gets NO reaction out of you other than, I'm sorry you're upset. Are you hungry?

Oh, and don't let her threaten you legally. If she's in law school she may know just enough about the law to make her dangerous to herself. I've raised plenty of baby lawyers and in the beginning they know it all. So if she threatens you with ANY legal action, your response would be the same as above. If she presses it, you can say, huhhh... let me run that by my attorney and I'll get back to you. Now, are you hungry sweetie?

Good morning, well last night was fairly uneventful. WW brought hamburgers home and sat them on the table, never said a word and went to bed. I kept my mouth shut and I let her go. She said yesterday that she is filling for divorce today; I guess I will find out this evening after work if she is bluffing or not.
I have a sit down with my attorney this afternoon to start getting all my bases covered.
I have not checked my e-mail yet this morning to see if my letter writing campaign bore fruit last night. I contacted about 25 of his facebook friends and told them the truth as I see it. It�s definitely not their truth, but it is the truth none the less.

I found out yesterday that they have another rendezvous planned for New Years weekend. She is supposed to leave to go meet him at 12:00pm on the 30th. I am trying to decide the best way to handle this. My thought right now is to meet her at work on that day with our daughter and tell her that we know what she is about to do. Tell her to look into her daughters eyes and tell her where she is going and with who. I do not know the wisdom in this, but I firmly believe that the only people that can reach my wife at this point are God and my daughter. This would be a make it or break it move, one that would seal the deal one way or the other.
Thoughts?

That is a nuclear weapon.

Use it and MEAN it. You should inform her if she goes, the locks will be changed and her stuff will be on the front lawn upon her return.

Do I have any legal standing to boot her out if she goes? Because that's exactly what I will do. If I can do it and not have it used against me. I plan on having her followed and have it all documented. Would this make a difference?

Is her name on the deed?

We are currently renting, while I am remodeling a foreclosure we closed on in April. It�s under a construction loan at this time and we will have to close again in April 2010 when the work is completed. I should note that this was her dream home, where we were going to spend the rest of our lives. She started her EA around June as best as I can figure, it escalated into a PA in October. This whole time I have been working on the house alone with her coming buy just long enough to drop off something to eat. She hasn�t as much as picked up a broom since September.

Ask your lawyer when you see him/her.

I have a question: Divorce laws vary from state to state, but I think nearly every state requires some sort of waiting period for "no-fault" divorces, and "at-fault" divorces require some sort of grounds.

On what grounds would your WW file? Mental cruelty? Since you have evidence of the A, I would think she would stand to lose more than gain if it came to an all-out court fight.

I sense a major bluff here. But I'm no lawyer and I don't know the law in your state. Maybe someone else will update me?

Interesting, thanks Fred. I�ll try to find out when I go this afternoon.

TTF, she is likely bluffing about filing for divorce, but even if she does, that is ok. It is just part of the battle and does not mean the war is over. I would not sit by idly if she plans on seeing the OM on NY eve. That should be broadcast everywhere.

Have you FINISHED your exposures? These need to be done in ONE DAY so you can move forward. Has her family been updated on all this and have they spoken to her?

Don't let up while you have the affair on the ropes. If you let up, you will give them a chance to REGROUP and REARM. Don't let that happen.

BAM!!! I just hit pay-dirt with the facebook letters; OM�s allegedly exclusive girlfriend just contacted me. We only got to talk for a few minutes, she is at work. She is supposed to call me back in about an hour. Any thoughts?

And thanks MelodyLane, yes I have finished the exposures with the exception of a couple that I have not been able to connect with. I will try again this evening.

My advice: Keep it all about you and your marriage. Do -not- engage in any negative comments about OM. Just keep saying you want to save your marriage and will do whatever it takes to do so. If she asks for proof, tell her you have it, but don't immediately offer to share it with her. She may not yet be completely on "your side." Try to get a buy-in from her that you both are working toward the same mutually beneficial ends.

Outstanding!!! I would recommend simple honesty. Tell her what you are trying to do and why. Ask her for her help in ending the affair and working together. I would recommend you two work together and not let WW/OM know.

I kind of blew that when I talked to OMW. She was so angry she let some things that I told her slip out and OM/WW figured it out.

That is really good news though.

Thats what we talked about, trying to end this thing. I don't trust her yet, and I did not give a lot of details. I did tell her however that I knew of the trip her man and my wife took together. And I did give details on that.

Good. Good! Think of this like a fishing expedition (well, maybe that's a guy analogy, but after all, I'm a guy...). You want to dangle the line, tease with the bait, and wait until your fish is solidly on the lure. Only then do you reel it in.

OMW could be your staunchest ally! But don't play your entire hand at once. She has to give and take as well as you. What does SHE want, and how far and to what lengths is SHE willing to go?

Just got contacted by another lady. She wants to share with me but does not trust me to keep her name out of it. I am currently trying to get her to open up. Some of these people may end up being Trojan Horses.

GOOD JOB!! Give her the whole low down about the affair and the upcoming trip. Get as much info as possible from her too, so you can share it with your wife. If he has a GF, then your wife needs to know all about it.

Thats fine! Share the wealth with any and all. You have nothing to hide. Spread the good news!

Thanks all, I will see everybody in the morning.

Good Morning, well I didn�t have papers served on me yesterday, it�s probably a bluff.
During my phone conversations with OM�s girlfriend she told me that they were supposed to be exclusive, imagine that. She said she had been texting back and forth with him. He swore there was no one else; he said he was completely devoted to her. He said that every thing I said in my letter was a lie.
I am currently trying to get her to download the massages and send them to me. This could be huge.
If I can manage to get my hands on these, or even if I can�t, should I approach my wife immediately? I can hear her saying that she doesn�t care, that it doesn�t matter if OM has 50 girlfriends; she still hates my guts for humiliating her with my letter. I just don�t want to blow a golden opportunity.

Do you have proof of her affair to show the GF?

And yes, if you can do it, show your wife what the GF has said. Do it without passing any judgement on the OM, though, because you don't want to make her defensive.[she will be defensive no matter what, but you don't want to push that] Just say, I am so sorry, but thought you should know the OM has been seeing someone else all along. Then say, "you are invited to call his GF yourself" and hand her the GF's #.

Has the OM dumped your wife yet? Do you see any difference in her activity? Are you keylogging her computer activity?

She definitely needs to know that the OM is denying he has a relationship with her. That should be easy enough to prove.

I do have proof, piles of disgusting e-mails and facebook correspondence plus my wife�s own admission.
The girlfriend has agreed to speak with my wife personally; she is supposed to be back into contact with me sometime today. I am in Georgia; she is in Las Vegas and works nights, so there is some difficulty communicating.
I believe I have made a major impact on the affair, OM completely deleted his facebook page; this is/was the major vehicle for the affair.
Also some of his FB friends that contacted me said they knew he was involved with a woman but had no idea she was married and had a child. At least it did put that out into the open. It�s not very romantic any more I am guessing.
In reality it�s going to be extremely difficult for them to maintain this affair across an ocean with the same kind of zeal and enthusiasm. It is what it is now, an affair not a Harlequin Romance novel.
As far as her behavior, she still is very, very upset with me for what I did (the FB letter). Did you hear that? For what I did.
This guy, I�m learning from his friends, is about the exact polar opposite of me. He is an Atheist according to one, extremely agnostic according to another. He is very controlling and manipulative; he is extremely liberal in his politics and has made comments against the United States, �oil hungry- war monger� is how he has described us. My wife at one point not to long ago, was teaching youth in church and going on mission trips to Central America. She has been raised a Christian and her father is ordained. This affair will never survive, the only question is, can I save my wife when it�s over?

No - I think the question is can you save yourself. Your WW will survive and thrive but will you? I consider my M recovered but I'm still here (third year) reading advice/giving advice. I don't think there's a day that goes by that what happened doesn't cross my mind. Of course, my FWH goes on like nothing ever happened. I don't dwell on it and I have moved on but the memories can't be erased.

Gg

Sorry - don't mean to add to your blues. I should add my M is the best it's ever been.

Really I guess all you can do is take it a day at a time. I know that I have a permanent scar on my heart and no matter what the future holds nothing will ever be completely the same. What I am trying to do is lean on my faith, things really do happen for reasons, the reason may not be apparent at first, but it will eventually reveal itself. I tell myself that every single day, but right now I feel like I�m climbing Mt.Everest without oxygen.
It�s good to hear that your marriage is doing well, that gives me hope for mine.

Harley writes it typically takes two years to R a M. That was the case with us. We started with MC and then found this site. I didn't get to Plan B or expose because I didn't know about it at the time. Your WW being angry is typical waywardness. The first six months are the worst.

Gg

No, you cannot save her against her own will. God still gives us all free will. But you can help bring her into the light with your exposures and with your LEADERSHIP. You can be a light that can guide her out of the darkness. Whether she follows will be entirely up to her. By standing up for your marriage like this, you have given her the best opportunity to come out of this.

Just for the record, most marriages do not end over adultery. 65% stay together. 95% of affairs crumble within 2 years. The odds are way in your favor.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil; For you are with me; Your rod and Your staff,
they confort me. Psalm 23:4

I can do everything through Christ who strengthens me.Philippians 4:13

The affair is on the ropes. I hope you stay in contact with the OM's girlfriend and keep her abreast of what the others are telling you. Another huge hit would be to inform the OM's parents that he is carrying on with a married woman in the US. Have you been able to reach them?

Man, I LOVE facebook exposures! This affair is doomed. Another affair that was killed by a facebook exposure [along with other exposures] was Notsure's over on Inrecovery. She and her H are now working hard on putting back together their marriage and the affair is killed.

This is great TTF. I think the A will be ending soon just like mine. Amazing to me how we are mirroring each other's situation. I'm pulling for you man.

If I had to do it over again, I'd plaster my FB page with news of the A. I started to do so, and WW pitched a royal fit. This was before I found MB, so I capitulated and removed my exposing comments. Oh, to be back in time...

Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement.

MelodyLane, I am still waiting for OM�s girlfriend to contact me, I would like to have a little more from her before I approach my wife, although I don�t want to wait to long. What are your thoughts, as far as a time frame?

SoL, Thanks man, I think I mentioned yesterday or the day before that I think we may be married to sisters. I�m praying for you.

gg615, thanks go out to you and Fred as well. I know this would be so much harder without the support that we have here.

What do you have on her so far? Enough to prove her existance to your wife?

p.s. are you out of town on business? When are you going home?

What about something like: "a woman named Sally Jones has contacted me who is very upset about your affair because she claims she is in an exclusive relationship with OM. While I was speaking to her, the OM was frantically texting her saying it was LIE that he had anything to do with you. Maybe you need to contact this woman yourself?"

That will throw her into a tailspin and cause huge conflict in the affair. I would not wait on this because you need to strike while the iron is HOT. Do this before the OM and your WW have a chance to regroup. Cause as much conflict as possible in the affair NOW.

I am at work at the moment, my wife actually knows about this girl. Her name was mentioned in a conversation that I found when I broke into her facebook account. That�s the reason I sent my letter to her first. I hoped that there would be something there and I was right, she was the first person to contact me. I am almost sure that my wife knows that we have spoken by now, but I was waiting on OM�s girlfriend to send me the text messages. If I haven�t heard from her in an hour or two I�ll try to call her again. I get off work at 7:00 and intend on talking with my wife then, with or without the messages. Her first instinct will be to blow it off, or say she doesn�t care, but it will be another doubt planted in her mind.

I just discovered that my wife has also deleted her entire facebook page. I know she must be humiliated about getting busted in public.
Has anyone else ever busted their spouse in this manner? How long did they harbor ill will after it was over?

OM�s girlfriend is supposed to call me in 2 hours. In the event that she doesn�t, should I still approach my wife with what I have?

I would run with what you have even if you haven't heard from her. You have enough NOW to strike a nasty blow to the affair.

When I got home last night my daughter said that we were going to decorate the Christmas tree. She said they had been waiting for me. My wife even put my stocking on the mantle next to hers. I�m not reading too much into this, this is about our daughter, not me. All that�s been on my wife's mind the last few months has been OM. Until a day or two ago she hadn�t even mentioned Christmas. She even has been doing a little house work.
I am more convinced than ever that my facebook exposure of OM was the right thing to do.
Don�t get me wrong, she still hates my guts. She didn�t talk to me or acknowledge that I was even helping them with the tree. But it�s a start.

TTF - I've been away for a few days dealing with some updates on my own issue (I'll update my thread a little later) but have just caught up with your situation. Great job! You have taken a huge step!

Great job! Just a warning, however. They likely didn't delete their facebook accounts. Most likely they just blocked you. This will enable them to contact all these people and try to give their side of the the story. They may even post something on their wall. You could open a fake FB account and try to find them through that.

Thanks, I need some encouragement today. I don�t really know where all this is going, it�s all so confusing.
How is this for crazy? Last night I had a 2 hour text conversation with my wife�s- boyfriend�s-girlfriend. While my wife was in the other room, probably having the exact opposite conversation with her boyfriend, I think I will probably need a strait jacket before this is over.
I have been putting off telling my wife that I�ve been talking with OM�s girlfriend, because I have been working late and she is keeping our daughter extremely close to her now. I don�t want a confrontation in front of her or when she is even anywhere around because I know there will probably be a scene. I also wanted to try to get to know the girlfriend a little better, to find out if she is for real, she is.
All this is weighing extremely heavy on me 4 days before Christmas. We normally go to my parents house on Christmas Eve and then to her parents Christmas morning. How awkward is that going to be?
My dad drew my wife�s name this year; he had already bought her gift before any of this came out�..A Victoria�s Secret gift card!
It�s a wonderful life.

The more awkward the better. I would have this conversation with her TODAY, TTF. Get this all out in the open. Remember, the purpose of exposure is EXPOSURE. It must all come out. She needs to know that every one knows.


If she is having affair conversations in your home, in front of you and your child, it needs to STOP. Interrupt her and ask her to show some respect and take her affair conversation elsewhere. Say this in front of your child.

What about your FIL? Has he spoken to your DD yet? Does your wife know that everyone knows? I am getting concerned that this is a wasted exposure because folks are not talking to your wife. Does she even KNOW?

My mother has had a long tearful conversation with her, and so has her father. Her brother has been into contact with her as well, he told her what everyone else had told her, she is wrong, she is destroying our family and it doesn�t have to be this way. I asked everyone when I told them, to let her know that they loved her and was concerned for her. That�s the way my mother began her conversation �The first thing I want to tell you is I love you�.
I just received another e-mail regarding my facebook letter. Someone else has come forward. This letter is from a man who said his girlfriend has been emotionally involved with this predator for 7 months. I printed it; my wife will be reading it as soon as I get home. This on top of what his other girlfriend has told me surely will be enough to open her eyes.

Wow - this guy really is a POS. You've done a lot of people a favor by exposing him. I can't believe that your WW won't see the truth once the fog has lifted a bit. I think in the end - whenever that may be - she will thank you for taking such aggressive action, and will realize that you did it because you love her.

Stay with it, buddy - God bless

Great news!! TTf, it also ocurred to me that his "exclusive girlfriend" should know about any continued contact between the OM and your W. Can you ensure that happens?

Also, how is your wife communicating with him? Did you already tell me this? Do you have a log of all their communications?

WW is communicating by cell phone now, I believe almost exclusively. It�s a phone that she paid for with her own money and I have no control over it.
I truly believe that this affair is about over, this is the beginning of the end. I am going to approach her with this tonight in a caring and loving way; I�m going to try to make her see the truth about what she means to me and our daughter. I don�t know if she will �flip the switch� tonight or not, if she can�t see it after this, then I don�t know if she will ever see it.

Well, did the cops ever get there?

If she is having affair conversations in your home, I would ask her to leave. Politely interrupt her and ask her to take her affair conversation out of your home. Tell her it is very disrespectful to carry on her affair in front of you and her child. The idea is to cause as much conflict as possible in her affair. She should be forced to take her conversation down to the gas station, but out of your home. Carrying on her affair from your home is a boundary that should never be crossed.


Caring and loving is ok, but FIRM and straightforward is what she needs to see. I don't mean with demands, but she needs to understand that you cannot live like this and will not enable her affair.

Can you snag it in the middle of the night and install flexispy?

This truth will be meaningless to a self centered wayward who is intoxicated on the fumes of an affair. She doesn't care what she means to you, she cares about getting a FIX. If she cared what she meant to you, she wouldn't be having an affair.

What I would do is first tell her everything you know about her affair, including about the OM's girlfriends. Just lay out the facts.

Tell her everyone knows about the affair and ask her to end it.

Tell her that you love her and are willing to do what it takes to recover the marriage if she commits to a program of recovery. Tell her you are willing to forgive her if does all that. The first step would be to send a letter of no contact to the OM [outlined in SAA] and enter the MB program. She would also need to assure you that no more contact takes place. What suggestions would she have for that? [you would need her cell phone]

The thing is I've already exposed the affair. She knows the entire world knows about it. This is just one more way to put pressure on it.

THIS is the conversation you need to have.

Actually, this is more like begging.

I QUIT!!

What's up??

What happened?

What happened? What did she say?

YOU QUIT???
Why? What happened?

This place can be your salvation when you need help/advice and you just quit? You get people here concerned for you and here helping you and you just "quit"?

Tell us what happened TTF and why you want to "quit"?

If you WANT MB to work, you can't just "quit"...

Umm, huh? Quit what?

Did your WW do something that you think nobody on this board has seen before and they are powerless to help you?
If so, think again, or at least try them.

Did you fail to disclose something about your situation that might have a bearing and you think the plan can't work or get back on track? If so, think again. I had to stall my plan A after an exposure to inform everyone in the free world about my own past A's. Sure I caught a few 2x4's - and they were right on target; hardest and most important thing I've ever done. The people here know what they're talking about.

There are a lot of people counting on you to come back here TTF. Including your daughter.

~optimism

Don�t get me wrong I love each and everyone of you for your help and support. But how do you reach someone who is unreachable?
She told me last night that it was pointless. She reacted to the news of OM�s girlfriend just like I figured she would. She said she didn�t care, �I don�t care if he has 25 girlfriends, he�s not you and that�s all that matters.�
She said she hated hurting me and hated what she had done to our families but it was necessary for her to move on. She said that she felt like she could not be �nice� to me anymore, �Every time I am nice to you, you misinterpret it as affection and you start trying to fix us�stop.�
This is by no means all that was said, it�s just an example. How do I deal with it.
I think the time has come now for her to see what it is like without me. I could be wrong.

((((TTF)))

MB can still help you. Plan A is only the beginning. You conduct it as best as you can and then you move to Plan B. You are even starting to say so yourself:


Perhaps it's time to start preparing for Plan B.

I�m not handling this very well, am I?

The point of a plan A is its invisible qualities. You never talk about relationships, you just be nice.

Expect vile behaviour to your nice responses. This is not your problem. She has to deal with it. The vets describe the action as building a rock bridge underwater -you see nothing until enough rock fills the underwater cavity.

Understand the WW wants you to lose. It justifies her guilt. You stay cool -this response also wears her down. Do it.

She still has money, doesn't she?

You are handling this about the same as anyone who is new and raw in this situation. No one here is judging you or thinks you are beyond help. Quite the contrary.

What you need to do is stop trying to think for yourself and let the collective wisdom of MB do the thinking for you! This stuff has all been seen and said before, just not to you.

Come here -- camp here, if you must (I did!) -- and let the folks who've earned their stripes help and guide you through this.

Thanks everyone, she still has money and she still has a car. But that is about to change, I am taking her car, it's in my name. She said she plans on meeting OM for their New Years trip. I can't stop her from running away, but she will have to find another mode of transportation.

That's the right thinking. Don't be the financier of her affair. That's your boundary... not hers.

TTF

It sounds like it may be time for you to preent her with a Plan B letter and you go into Plan B... Go ahead with your plans for the vehicle, etc. Let her figure out how she is going to conduct her A at this point--but, make it plain to her that you will in no way support it.

If I were you, I would also make it plain to her that if she does not want to work on the M and go NC, then Plan B is to be expected and that she should NOT expect to uproot your children in the process. In other words, if she wants to leave then she will do it wothout the kids.

I am really sorry for you--this is a crappy time of the year to be dealing with this but, please know that you CAN have a happy time and a happy life with your children.

Consider Plan B IMO...
And, please--don't quit on us here!!

TTF -- she is not special or unusual.

Regretably, I said nearly EXACTLY the same thing to my BH. The whole spiel about me being nice and him jumping to conclusions and trying to fight for us.

She desperatly wants you to give up. You are making her uncomfortable with your Plan A.

If you are on the verge of quitting -- then it is most definetly time for plan B. And it is my opinion that Plan B is far more effective on WW's. Its almost NECCESSARY. And you need to be tough about it.

Agreed.

Please don't tell her that you are taking the car. Have it disabled at the last possible moment. Put a GPS on it as well in case she tries to sneak it away.

I'm in. Can you give me the outline of an example Plan B? Or please direct me to a thread so I can gain a better understanding. Thanks again

TTF, start here.

There are some folks on this board who have written awesome Plan B letters, and they will help you craft one, too.

Go pick up a copy of "Surviving An Affair". If you have a PC, iPhone, or Kindle, you can have it in just a few minutes for $10. It's a fast read, literally perhaps 3 hours if you are a fast reader and maybe 8 if you are slow.

He outlines Plan A/Plan B much better, IMHO, than you can get from posters here. The only advantage posters have is early access to information on exposure... which IIRC you've already done.

TTF

This is some of what Dr. Harley says about Plan B:

"Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B."

"Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?"

I believe there is an example of a Plan B letter in SAA--which you have, don't you?

Also, there is a thread somewhere here on Plan B and possibly the letter. You just have to tell her what you expect in terms of actions and lay out your course of action i.e., you will not support her affair, you will not see or talk to or communicate with her in any way until she ends the A, etc.

Look around here on the board and you will probably find the thread for Plan B. And, in the meantime, if I find it I will post it here for you.
I think you are making a good choice.

Here is one thread with some good examples:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2210488#Post2210488

You can post yours here too for suggestions.

Thanks everyone, I have to leave now, I will be back after I have slept. Thanks again.

You can SLEEP? Please let me know your secret!

TTF,
Glad you�re back. You�re in the right place. I didn�t mean to go postal on ya. Maybe it's wrong but I would have taken it a little bit personal if you flew the coop. Your success gives me strength in my own fight against adultery; I suspect others feel the same way.

You�re doing fine. You�re self-assessment was really pertinent to me because I had just been re-reading my thread from the beginning (about a month ago I started posting and executed an exposure). I remember feeling so anxious and wondering if this whole approach was going to work. The more people encouraged me the more I learned. Everything they said was right on. Even things I�m just now figuring out. I wish I knew now what I didn�t know then, but I guess it doesn�t work that way.

It�s SO overwhelming though. Especially at first. These are not easy concepts and it takes a while to absorb them. Read what you can when you can. Meanwhile you have a WW getting closer to a OM by the minute, so time seems to be of the essence. You have to figure out what to do next, you�re aching inside, the one who loved you a year ago is choosing someone over you, she�s talking a different language (alien fog bullsh*/-ese), and most of the time you just want it to stop (preferably with OM falling down a flight of stairs in the process). But you have to remain calm and in charge of your emotions. You have to have a plan. A Plan (or Plan A) is what keeps you focused and not succumbing to the mindless babble you�re going to hear.

Get your marching orders here. Carry out your orders to the best of your ability and forsake the temptation to deviate. You will be in a better place for it.

Don�t forget to make a mental note of the things she says he gives her. As much as you want to scream, she�s telling you where you can improve in the future (ASAP) I read this idea here and have been applying it. My WW got her EN�s of IC and RC from the OM. Guess which EN I try to meet first, if she�ll let me? (I�m in plan A) I was never very good at those things, but damn you can learn quick when your life is on the line.

I'm so not out of the woods with my sitch, so I can't advise you much. But I can say that I would have been completely dismantled without this "online support group" (that's what I call it). Completely dismantled.

Sounds like you might be going to plan B. Read up. And know that there are plenty of people here for you.

opt

ok?? So whats the problem?? She said the EXACT SAME THING that all fogbound WSs say when you interfere with their affair? SO WHAT? Do you quit trying at the first rant that comes out of the mouth of a falling down drunk? Or do you realize you are talking to a person is HIGH AS A KITE and continue doing the right thing for your marriage?

If you are going to collapse and cry at a little FOGBABBLE, you are not going to make it!! You need to IGNORE her babble, finish your exposures and STICK TO YOUR PLAN.

You don't allow a falling down drunk to drive the boat or divert you from your PLAN. Understand?

Now, are you going to stick to the plan here so you can save your marriage? Or are you going to collapse in tears everytime she babbles some fogbabble??

Here is YOUR PLAN if you want to save your marriage. If you don't want to save your marriage, then waste your time listening to FOGBABBLE.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

ok, now I am up to speed. TTF, I would tell everyone, including the OM's friends and your child about your wife's plans to meet the OM on New Years Eve. Then when she is leaving, you can hand her this letter [reworded in your own words], from Surviving an Affair:

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon

She should be placed in a position where she has to explain to her parents and her child why she plans on leaving to meet her adultery partner in New YEars Eve.

If you haven't read Scotland's thread, she executed a stellar plan A and just went into a plan B on Friday. By most accounts it's textbook and might give you some perspective on steps to take in for the next week or so.

Clearly you're in pain. Stand up and fight. You can do this, TTF.

Opt

Thanks for the spanking everybody! I apologize for letting this get me down.
I had a lengthy conversation with OM�s girlfriend again last night. I told her about the trip her boyfriend was planning. It must be said though, I�m not so sure that this woman might not be a double agent herself. I really don�t care; I told her what I knew. The way I have it figured; if she makes trouble for him it�s just that much better for me.
If she goes forward with her trip I�m going to take my daughter and leave, if I can do it legally. I have to find another lawyer, (since I am an idiot and I�ve never done this before), I set up an appointment with an attorney who could not represent me�. wrong county.
Can anyone advise on this? Can I force her to leave if I can�t?
Thanks again for bringing me back; I feel that even if I can�t save my wife I need this place for support and strength.

TTF
You ARE NOT to leave your home under any circumstances. Mel, please step in here and explain why--

You should ask her to leave and not come back or contact you for any reason. Change the locks, phone #'s, email add., etc.

You do not want to uproot your child from her home because of her mothers' stupidity. How fair is that to your child? Not very.
Call a lawyer (in your county) and find out what you need to do but, like I said, DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME.

Don't leave your home. Just expose her plans to everyone and try to prevent her from going. Tell her you will change the locks if she goes. But I think if you TELL EVERYONE what she is planning, she might have second thoughts. Most of all, TELL YOUR CHILD and demand that your WW explain to her what she is planning.

Where will she be meeting the OM? Can you go?

Exactly! Do NOT leave the home. Tell her that if she goes on the trip, do not plan to return home. Get a lawyer to draw up the papers kicking her out, whatever they may be. Have her stuff packed and waiting for her on the curb, with your Plan B letter. Do NOT take your daughter out of your home, and do NOT leave, yourself.

Whatever you do, don't leave though.

Thanks, that�s what I thought.
My daughter knows about the affair, I have explained it to her in a very truthful way. She is a good kid and can�t see yet what this is all about.
My wife gave me a lot of grief about including her in my exposures; she said it made me a very small, cowardly man, to drag her into this. My reply was that she made it all possible with her lies and adultery.
She wants to keep our daughter insulated as much as possible; I do to up to a certain point. I do feel however that she has to know the truth. I just need some advice on how to approach her with this truth. She has to know when/if her mother leaves on the 30th where she is going and who she is going with. I do not want to look or feel like I am using my daughter as a weapon. I know I shouldn�t feel this way. What can I say to her and myself to overcome this?

How old is she?

Of course she does! She wants to hide her crimes from her victim! Don't all adulterers want to do that? What is harming your DD is her adultery, not the truth. She needs the truth about her own life, not lies and spin.

TTF, has your DD been told the full truth? That your wife is having an affair?

Your daughter has a RIGHT to know what her mother is doing TO HER and you need to STOP trying to whitewash it. Whitewashing your W's crimes against you and your DD helps no one and makes the problem worse. This is your DD's life and your wife's affair has a major impact on it. If you do not tell your DD the truth, your WW is free to tell her lies.

What is her plan? To LIE to the DD about where she plans on going? How does that help anything except to make your WW feel good about her crimes? How is that not EVIL to whitewash your wife's horrendous behavior against her own child? C'mon, TTF!

Everyone needs to know that she plans on running off to see the OM on NY eve. Everyone!

If you want this 1 hr mp3 from Dr Laura, email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com

This is a segment that is sloppily and partially transcribed by me that was on the Dr Laura show. I thought Dr. Laura made some EXCELLENT and profound points about the effects of lying to children about adultery. I don't always agree with her views on adultery, but she is right on in this aspect.

Dr. Harley, as many of you know, is a strong advocate of telling the children the TRUTH.

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

LYING TO KIDS IS SMALL AND COWARDLY. HAVING AN AFFAIR IS SMALL AND COWARDLY. Telling the truth to one's victims is not "small and cowardly.". Your wife is manipulating you so you will help her hide her crime from your child. Don't help her do this, TTF. You are being gaslighted.

Don't lie to your child to whitewash your wife's crimes, TTF. Don't enable her. Tell your wife that if she is going to harm your child like this, then your DD DESERVES TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING TO HER.

here

I need to rant on this exposing to the kids deal. Who do these Ws think they are? Are they so messed up that they cannot see the hypocrisy of trying to make the BS the bad guy for telling the kids? I mean , it is absolutely absurd that they cheat on the whole family and then have the temerity to look at you and allege you are damaging the kids by telling the truth. There is something seriously wrong with WSs who do this(and a lot of them do try this crap).
You did the absolute right thing.
I remember finally hearing that my dad was a drunk. For years, this was hush hush, and we kids were confused as hell. We thought all fathers smacked their kids and tore them down verbally.
It was a huge relief to have an explanation for the crazy behavior. Smae with cheating. I imagine kids are confused as hell by their cheating parents behaviors.
My kids were so confused. Here, we had sent them to parochial school and attended church every Sunday. Yet, mom broguht her boyfriend into her house and slept with him every night.
She began barricading her bedroom door, so as not to be disturbed. She told the kids that she needed to do this in case burglars came into the house.
These monstrous liars damage their kids. My middle daughter started going ballistic and insisted that she be allowed to install a video camera in her mom's bedroom to verify that she was not having sex(she was 7 at the time).
There is a special place in hell for people like my XWW.

Sorry for my outburst there, TTF! I am getting frustrated because you have this affair on the ropes and I am concerned you are letting up. That would be a huge mistake at this very critical time. Your W is angry about your interference in her affair and this is a GOOD THING. That is a signal to NOT LET UP. It is not a signal to give up to appease her anger. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger, it cannot survive her ongoing affair.

You are at a very critical time in your battle and if you cannot afford to let up and give the affairees a chance to regroup.

Dr. Willard Harley, clinical psychologist, and founder of Marriage Builders:

Thanks very much everybody, I knew y'all would come through for me.
I am fully committed now to telling my daughter the truth about this trip if WW follows thru with it.
She already knows about the affair, she knows the truth because I told her the truth. I did not let her mother sugarcoat it then and I will not let her leave without knowing that our daughter is going to know the truth about this now.

TTF, I would tell everyone BEFOREHAND so they can use their persuasion to stop her. The sooner you tell everyone the better.

Have you told the OM's GF about his plans to see your wife? HAve you told your FIL? TTF, you need to be doing your best to stop this trip. Let others support you in this effort.

TTF, based on the advice I received here, I agree that telling the children the truth is in their best interest in the long run.

WW's FxH is the custodial parent of their children. He raked me over the coals when I had the temerity to tell them the truth about their mom.

I guess even Exes don't always have their children's best interests at heart.

My daughter sees things more clearly than do I or FxH. She told me her kids love their mother, but do not respect her. That says volumes...

Yes MelodyLane, I have told everyone, with the exception of my daughter. I told the girlfriend when she called me last night.

So what does the GF say about this? Where is your W planning on hooking up with skankboy?

I'm not sure, she picked him up at the airport last time. I assume this is the case again. I am taking her car this weekend also, she will have to find alternate transportation.

TTF--how old is your daughter? Is this the only child and if not, what are the ages of the others? This may help us better direct you...

Do you know what time his flight gets in? Because if you do, maybe you and her father and brother could meet OM at the airport too. That might put a damper on the day.

Our only daughter is 12.
I don�t know any of the details of the trip except that she plans on leaving her office at 12:00pm on the 30th.

So, how do you plan on taking her vehicle? Maybe she is planning on leaving directly from work or not coming home in between??? Do you have a gps on her vehicle? If not, you should get one.

No, I'm just going to take it. It's in my name, I'm going to take it away from her Sunday. I will drive her back and fourth to work. She can borrow a vehicle if she has to, but she's not driving the family car.

I have to leave now and probably will not be back until Sunday. I appreciate every last one of you and wish everyone a Merry Christmas. I would not be sitting here talking if it weren�t for you; I would probably be in a hospital somewhere or worse. I am going to pray for everyone here and all our families that this will be our season to turn things around. God Bless

I used to live in that area too! I'm not far now but in another state.

TTF, I just read this thread and I think you're doing a really great job! Your WW's venom reminds me of my WH. He spewed some really vile stuff too. You're getting the best guidance here so hang in there!

"I am going to pray for everyone here and all our families that this will be our season to turn things around. God Bless "

In case you get a chance for a quick check-in on your thread over the holiday, know that others including myself are also praying for you and your family. Merry Christmas, my friend.

opt

What now?
I had a decent Christmas, no battles, both families were cordial toward WW; it actually went smoother than I thought it would.

The day after Christmas WW made the comment that we needed to decide what we were going to do. She said she promised to stay until Christmas, now that Christmas is over she asked if she should move out. She said she was tired of my spying and treating her like a child. I don�t think I�ve treated her like a child; I�ve treated her like an adulteress, which is exactly what she is. I told her to do whatever she wanted to do. I�m just about sick of her. She somehow thinks that I owe this to her, that since she decided to do this I should make it as easy and painless for her as possible. I doubt she will be home tonight.

I�m thinking of a compromise, if she will move back in with her parents where I�ll know she and my daughter will be safe, I won�t fight her for taking our child out of our home. This is something we fought hard over yesterday. My opinion is: She is the one committing adultery, she is the one breaking up the family unit, and she should be the one to leave�.alone. Her opinion, as you can imagine, is just the opposite of mine. Since she has re-written history I have become the worst father of all time. I�ve never been there for my family and I�ve done everything in my power to make this affair possible. I know it is all fog but in her mind I�m Attila the Hun. We are getting nowhere like this.

I also told her to clean her car out. I am not going to let her drive our family car on another adulterous rendezvous with her lover. She told me that I am being childish and petty; she would just go out and buy another car on her own. She may very well buy another car, but I remain firm, the car that she is driving at the moment is ours, I bought it for our family, I don�t pay insurance on it so she can have a nice car to drive her boyfriend around in. Her argument is the fact that she has a job and contributes to the family budget, this is true. But the family, as I have told her, is made up of the three of us, boyfriends are not considered family. Therefore boyfriends must travel 2nd class.

I am fully prepared, emotionally at least, to have her move out. I am ready to enter some form of plan B, not with the intentions of getting my wife back, but with every intention of trying to heal myself and make sense of the senseless. I don�t want my wife back, not like this. What I want is what we once had, I want the �US� that�s in all of our pictures, that�s in the million miles we�ve traveled together, and that�s in the memories that fill my days and nights.

The marriage that we had is gone; the girl that I married is lost. I feel that the only way for us to recover and possibly restore our love is to completely obliterate what we have now. You can�t build upon pain and mistrust. There must be some form of mutual respect and desire for there ever to be any chance at all, right now I do not desire or respect her.

Please do not mistake this as me surrendering; I just believe it�s time to change the battle plan. I have done just about all that I can do toward killing the affair, the car will disappear tomorrow. She only has 1 friend left, the rest see what is going on and have distanced themselves from her. The only place she has left to go is home to her parents, and that will get old to her in a hurry, in fact it�s probably the best thing that could happen for me.
Thoughts?

Right on. You are exactly right here. You have to treat her as you see her, not how she says she is.


DO NOT GIVE UP YOUR CHILD. Once you allow that to happen, it then sets a precedent that you care less for the child should anything legal happen. Your home is the child's home. The other reason to fight? It's YOUR kid. How can you even entertain anyone else taking on the responsibility to imprint the right morals on that kid?


At least you realize this. That's good.


That's not childish and petty. That is protecting family assets and resources from doing things that do not support the betterment of the family. Stick to your guns on this one.


You are saying all the right reasons for Plan B. Just drop the "some form" part. Fully do it, or expect less than optimal results.



Also a good statement, but do you realize that getting back to that "US" is going to be a journey, not a revelation? You (the two of you) slowly deteriorated your marriage to get where you are at. It will go back even slower, because letting go didn't take effort. It was down-hill. You can get back to where you were, but it will be an up-hill fight every step of the way. Why bother? Because struggle, in general, breeds closeness. You CAN be closer at the end of it.


If I read between the lines of what you wrote, I am not hearing a tone of disrespectful judgments. You sound like you have thought all of this out. That's good. As the BS, you are going to have to carry the "this makes sense" torch alone. Sounds like you are.

PLEASE do NOT allow her to take your child from your home! YOU WILL NEVER LIVE WITH YOUR CHILD AGAIN if you do this.

Go to a lawyer TODAY and do whatever it takes to NOT let her take that child out of your home. You will not regret it.

Thanks folks, I need all the input I can get on this one.

TTF

I'm glad that you made it through the holiday.

However, you were directed (if I am not mistaken) last week (before the holiday) to compose a Plan B letter outlining all of your requirements--AND to contact an attorney to keep your WW from taking your daughter out of the home. It is not your daughters' fault and she should not be ripped up from her home.

Why have you not done this yet?

Call an attorney TODAY--compose a Plan B letter and let the chips falls where they may. Once you do that, the ball will then be in WW's court.

Listen to me TTF--YOU ARE GOING TO BE OKAY. It may be a long time before you see this but, you will. PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR DAUGHTER--CALL AN ATTORNEY TODAY AND WRITE THAT LETTER.

If WW wants to go out and get herself another car, then so be it--you are right in doing what you are doing for the car, etc.

You are getting the best guidance here that you could possible get--why are you not taking it?
Oh, and call Dr. Harley for a session?
Do NOT let your WW use you as a doormat and do not let her push you or your daughter out of your home.

TTF - I haven't been on for a few days but have caught up with your situation. I can't offer any more or better info than you're getting, but I do want to wish you the best. You are doing the right things - keep it up. You're WW is the loser right now - take care of yourself and your daughter. God bless.

Thanks Linus, I know from my writing that it may sound like I am not applying what I have learned here, please believe that I am trying to. I think maybe my situation may have already gotten way out of hand before I found this place. I think I might have been applying plan A theories when plan B was called for. Regardless it�s time now for something to happen, I don�t know what.
I am in the middle of composing a plan B letter; I also finally got an appointment with an appropriate attorney, tomorrow morning at 9:00 am. All this is falling together at about the right time. She is rumored to be leaving Wednesday at noon for another honeymoon. If that�s the case then that�s when it will hit the fan. She will have to�.1st - arrange for alternate transportation. 2nd � explain to her daughter where she is going and why (of course I will tell our daughter the truth even if she doesn�t). 3rd � find somewhere to live when she gets back. 4th � live with it.

Way to go ttf. Way to go.

In EVERY other transgression, society accepts no less than lying in the bed you make.

But adultery is different and it doesn't make sense. Consider me a fan, for both your steps you are taking and the tone you are conveying while doing it.

If you compromise, you will be compromising with a terrorist whose goal is the destruction of your marriage. Your battle has just begun, so there is no reason for you to give up before the battle has begun. All that has happened here is that you have struck a blow to the affair and your wife is angry about that. AS SHE SHOULD BE.

So, would it be ok if we got back to YOUR AGENDA? Your agenda is to save your marriage, not to consider or entertain the agenda of a terrorist whose goal is the destruction of your marriage and your family. Can we please SET ASIDE her agenda and work on yours?

Ok, now that we have cleared that up, lets get back to work here.

If your wife wants to move out, tell her you are sure sorry she wants to leave and YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER WILL MISS HER SORELY. Don't let the door hit ya in the [censored]. But she should not be allowed to move your DD from her home without a court order and a BIG [censored] SHERIFF with a loaded .45. If she wants a separation, then the onus should be on her to get it. PERIOD. Tell her you are not interested and will only discuss MARRIAGE, not divorce, not separation.

so please, stop talking about "compromise" and get back to work. Do not cooperate with the destruction of your marriage unless you want a destroyed marriage. Have you exposed to everyone that your wife plans on meeting her adultery partner this week?

You are not anywhere NEAR Plan B, so put that aside.

What you must do before Plan B is try to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. You have just started doing that.

Of course that marriage is gone. And you better hope it is, because that marriage is what preceded this affair. That doesn't mean you can't start all over and have a great marriage just like the rest of us.


Why would you change the battle plan when it is WORKING? Have I just not smoked enough crack this morning and am not getting your reasoning? Your plan is WORKING superbly. You have got the affair out in the open, the affairees are running scared and are becoming more and more isolated. THE AFFAIR IS ON THE ROPES AND YOU WANT TO QUIT??

WHY??

Yes to everything Mel has just posted. Harley typically recommends six months of Plan A for BH (if you can do it). You are still in Carrot & Stick part of Plan A from what I'm determining in this thread.

Pepper's Carrot & Stick thread

Gg

Some men clearly need to go into Plan B sooner, but TTF is only upset because his wife is angry about his interference in her affair. There is absolutely no reason to go into Plan B NOW just after he has struck a lethal blow to her affair.

No Melody, maybe I misrepresented myself. I don�t want to quit, the fact is she said she is moving out and taking our child. I�m not going to let her take our child out of her home without a fight. The compromise that I spoke of was one I thought I might present to her if it came down to it. I have to seek legal advice on this in the morning. Realistically I only have until tomorrow evening to get all my ducks in a row. She plans on leaving on the 30th.
I am not going to let her leave and then come back home as if it were a normal thing. So in my mind there can be no more plan A if she follows thru on Wednesday. Please give it to me with both barrels, I need it. If I am wrong please set me straight.

My bet is that she goes nowhere. You've blown up the affair - great job. Just my .02

TTF
I think you are doing the right thing for now. Consulting with an attorney to get your options should be paramount to determine what you can and cannot do as far as DD goes.

Did you take the vehicle yet? If she is planning on leaving Wed.? You are making the right moves dear friend. Just stand firm. Keep us updated.

But, if she does go through with this rendevous, then I would plan B.

ok, that sounds better. Her real plan is not to leave at all, but to get away for a few days so she can meet her lover on New Years Eve, then return afterwards because she "has second thoughts." She is thinking she can then come back when he is gone and make this right. So, if your plan is to prevent that from happening by obstructing her return, then I think that is a good idea.

However, do her parents know that her plan is to move in with them for a couple of days so she can carry on with her affair partner FROM THEIR HOME? Does everyone know she plans on meeting up with her OM on New Years Eve? Does your daughter know?

Yes everyone with the exception of our daughter knows. I am waiting to tell her, just in case it doesn't happen.
Unless something major happens, the car goes bye-bye tomorrow evening. But I have a suspicion that the trip may have been called off. I don�t have any proof just a gut feeling. We will see.

Good lord, my mother has just dealt another blow to my wife. WW went to pick up our daughter at my parents house, and went inside�.big mistake. My mother called her into another room and very tearfully asked for an explanation, keep in mind I�m 40 years old.
She basically got all the fog speak, she heard how it was mostly my fault, how WW had to cheat to find happiness. WW told my mom that she couldn�t understand why I just wouldn�t let go.
My mom is in her late 60�s but make her mad or hurt her and she turns into a stick of dynamite. She told me that she pretty much unloaded what she had been holding back for a long time. That�s good, it gives WW one more thing to dwell on, one more thing to ponder in her own little universe.

*BUMP*

Good for your Mom. I doubt that it will have much impact on WW right now, but it's another message that she can no longer have her fantasy world.

Good for your mother!! Doesn't matter if you are 60, TTF, she is still your momma! We have had mothers and dads of WS's here who actually busted up the affair with their actions. MrsW's momma called up the OM and threatened to call the mafia on him. THE AFFAIR ENDED THAT DAY!

TTF, your job is to cause as much conflict as possible in your wife's affair. What are you doing to that effect? I would tell your DD about your wife's plan to go see the OM over New Years and ask your wife to explain her actions to your DD. Please don't make the mistake of whitewashing your W's actions to others. Everyone should know what she is planning. Protecting your wife from the consequences of her actions is not helpful.

In fact, I would tell your DD one and one and then, while together, tell your wife you have told DD her plans to meet her adultery partner at the airport and ask her to explain to DD. <----say all this in DD's presence. Your W needs this wake up call, TTF.

What do her parents say about her plan to hook up with her OM? What are you doing to cause conflict in her affair?

TTF, I agree, you need to FIGHT the affair on all fronts. I know it's hard as I'm doing the same thing. I know that if I do nothing the M is over. If I fight, there is a chance. Full on exposure is having an impact on my WW. It's not working as quickly as I like and right now, it may even be driving her closer to OM. I'm not worried about that because I know the A will end on it's own because it is based in fantasy.

Your WW needs to feel some ramifications to her adulterous actions and exposure is the best way to accomplish that.

Keep the pressure up on that end, and be the best husband you can be on all other matters.

TTF
Where have you gone? You were supposed to have talked with an attorney yesterday a.m. How did that turn out?

Is anything new going on? Give us an update?

Your wife could very well choose the nuclear option over recovery as now it's too humiliating to admit she is wrong to you.

I am the poster child for when exposure goes terribly awry.

Bump - hoping for an update from our friend TTF soon

Good morning to all my friends, it�s been a rough couple of days for me. I apologize for bumping my thread and then leaving it, I had every intention of returning here after I met with my lawyer Tuesday morning. I also appreciate everyone�s concern. Like I have said before; I don�t know where I would be without this place. I love you all.

Things have taken a turn for the worse for me. I met with my lawyer Tuesday morning to find out just exactly how I should approach the �trip situation� and the �car situation�, and to find out what my rights are concerning my daughter. He advised against taking the car, he said that withholding property, even in a situation like this, is usually perceived as malice and is normally frowned upon highly if I should make it into court. He also said that my wife and I have equal rights under the law concerning our child, so, she can in fact remove her from the home if she wants to. However, on the other hand, so can I.

My wife is gone�. She disappeared Tuesday evening. She is, as we speak, somewhere in Tennessee with her lover. She was supposed to pick up our daughter Tuesday evening but failed to show. They have spoken twice on the phone since Tuesday. Last night when DD finally called her, she was checking into a motel. Yes, the 12 year old had to call the mother, not the other way around.
I have not told my daughter yet that the reason she couldn�t go with her mother, she was very upset last night and I did not want to compound it. She thinks she is on this trip alone�finding herself. I have to tell her today though; it�s the right thing to do.

At least my wife took me seriously when I told her she couldn�t drive our family car�..she bought a new car! She left �our� car sitting in a parking lot somewhere close to where she works; I have to go pick it up this evening.

That�s enough about me, how are you today?

I'm very sorry TTF, but there is a silver lining to this. It will be very easy to convince a judge that your WW abandoned your DD in this situation. She was supposed to pick her up, then didn't, and didn't call either. I know it sucks, but it will make things easier for you down the road.

WOW - this is not what I was expecting and certainly not what we were all hoping for, TTF. Well, maybe the vets could see this coming. I really thought you had done a good job of blowing up the affair. She's really gone off the deep end, I think. I feel so bad for you and your daughter.

I'll let the vets take it from here as far as next steps. I'm glad you met with an attorney - seems like you'll need one.

Just know that your friends here have your back. Stay in touch and we'll support you as much as possible. God bless, buddy.

TTF,
I'm so sorry for your situation. I'm glad you are telling your D12 - she needs to know what is right and wrong. How did your WW buy the new car and under who's insurance is it?

GG

I�m not sure how she managed to come up with enough credit to buy a car. It is more than likely she went to one of those �Buy Here - Pay Here� dealers. The kind that doesn�t check your credit, they charge you buy the week, and charge ridiculous interest. I don�t know that for a fact, that�s just my theory.
I have to call the insurance company today to see if she put her new car on our policy.

I have decided to file myself as soon as I can come up with an extra $982.00. I feel like if I file now while she is in happy land I will have a better chance of coming out of this thing with my scalp. If I wait until their pretty little fairy tail implodes on itself she may not be as agreeable.

TTF
This is awful. I'm really sorry but maybe this will support your strength to do what you need to do.

If I were you, I would call WW's parents and OM's W (or girlfriend?) and your parents and expose to everyone what your WW has done.
Leaving DD without picking up or calling is appauling to me. You need to explain this to your DD immediately and tell her what her mother is up to. She needs to know this.

AND, if I were you, I would contact the attorney you spoke to again and go ahead and file--you probably don't have to pay the whole amount up front. Explain to him about the way your WW had abandoned the DD. You may want to consider packing up some stuff and moving maybe with your parents? and when she returns she will find the house empty? This could be a good or bad thing--good in the way that she sees you're not playing but bad as in the way she could load stuff up while you're not there.

I would fight like hell to get my DD in this situation and it can ba done.

Call the lawyer back and protect yourself and DD and expose to anyone who may not know where she is right now. Call HER parents and tell them if they do not already know.

Mmm if it was me, I would visit WW with a bouquet of flowers and daughter.

Let her enjoy a little mom and daughter time together.

Thanks Everyone.

TTF, you need to tell your daughter. Let her call her mother so she ask why she has done this to your family. Please don't lie to your daughter about what your wife is doing. THAT HELPS NO ONE.

What will happen next is that your wife will have a "change of heart" when the OM leaves and want to come back. Will she be going to her parents house?

And about your lawyer, an attorney will always take the easiest softest way out. They are divorce facilitators, nothing more. Because of that, you need to tell your lawyer what you expect. For example, you don't want your DD dragged from her safe home to accommodate your WW's affair. YOU - the boss of the lawyer - tell your lawyer this is your expectation and he needs to do what is necessary to protect your DD.

Keep in mind, the lawyer does not care about your DD. He only cares about: easy divorce. It will be up to you to protect her. So you tell the lawyer that your W won't be dragging your D from her safe home and to make this happen.

But most of all, stop lying to your daughter. This situation is bad enough without adding lies to the mix. She needs to be prepared and guided through this horrible situation and you cannot do that if you lie to her. kids can handle the truth, they can't handle lies.

Not at any point during this have I ever lied to my daughter. She knows the truth because we talk about it. I haven�t sugarcoated it or made excuses. The only reason I withheld this last little tidbit is because it was late, she was already upset, and I didn�t want her to sit up all night long staring at the ceiling. She will hear the whole truth this evening when we have more time to sit around and discuss it.

Good! So when she speaks to your W, she can be fully apprised of the facts so your WW cannot lie and spin the truth to her.

Be straight forward when speaking to your DD and think about the lesson you want her to learn about honesty. You will be teaching her what is right and what is wrong.

Gg

Make sure she is not allowed to withdraw money from your bank accounts. Make sure her new car is NOT on your insurance policy; call the insurance company and REMOVE it - YOU did not authorize it. She can deal with it later.

Ask your lawyer today if you can put out a missing persons report or some such thing, to DOCUMENT that she disappeared and LEFT your car in some parking lot in the middle of town without telling you. DOCUMENT the ludicrousness of it all, for court.

TTF
I like Imagines idea about showing up at hotel with DD...

Your WW is trying to out fox you--leaving the car in a parking lot??? Did you go get it yet?

You DO need to be keeping some kind of journal about the things your WW is doing. I would call attorney today and get him/her to file something--maybe even start D procedure. Work out a payment plan with them.

Does everyone pertinent know where your WW is today/tonight? I would ask her mother/father to call her. What do they say about all this?

You and your DD are going to be fine. You are doing the right things but please don't let your guard down.

And, TTF--one thing I forgot to mention--I would make sure that she is not using $$ from your bank accounts or your family credit cards to fund the A (hotel expense, etc.)

Thanks everyone, I have already transferred all the money out of our joint account into a safe place. I�ll be retrieving our car tomorrow; I will not have time today because of work.
Everyone knows; she has been contacted by every one of her family members via text, or cell phone. She doesn�t care, she says that she has to do this in order to be happy, it�s a strange world.
I have to leave now, I more than likely will not be back for a few days, maybe I will have some better news the next time I log on.
I hope everyone has a safe and happy New Year, I will continue to pray for all of us.
God Bless.

Bump for ttf - hope to get an update.

Good morning my friends, I took some time off to clear my head and decide which way I should go.
Let me say first that I appreciate the help and support that this board offers. I don�t think I would survive this without the help of my friends here.
I have tried to look inside myself, I have tried to make sense of this entire mess and form some kind of plan for the future. It isn�t easy to look at some of this sometimes, it isn�t easy to look it in the eye and call it what it is�over.
I started the paper work yesterday to divorce my wife. I am going to offer her a settlement first; she should receive it by the 15th. If she agrees to my terms it could be over very quickly and as painlessly as possible. I was very fair in my demands, I believe the more attractive I make settling, the more likely she is to sign off on it. We can avoid dragging our daughter through the mud, get it over with, and move on with our lives.
I will continue to come here for help and support and to also offer it whenever I can. I pray for each and every one of us, we will survive this.

TTF
I'm sorry that this is the result but, like you said, it may be for the best. But, I'm glad to see that you're back here posting.

Tell us what happened with the trip and what brought you to this conclusion? Are you going to try for primary custody of DD? What does she say about all this--and with WW's trip?

The result is unfortunate, but I understand where you are. At this point, I think you are taking the right step.

Have you had any communication with WW since she met with OM on the 30th? I still cannot believe she did that!

We are all with you my friend - glad you're back here.

Sorry to hear this result TTF. In fact I'm heart-broken for you. You know you still have support here and my prayers continue to go out for you and your family. Thanks for checking in a letting us know, we were wondering and hoping for you. I hope you'll continue to let us know about your progess - I know you'll make the best of a bad situation, you would have never come here if you weren't that type of person.

optimism

Will you be retaining custody? I would fight for that, if I were you. She doesn't need to grow up watching and learning her mom's cruddy morals.

Keep posting; it's a great place to air your thoughts and keep learning.

TTF, I hate to say it, but I believe you have done the right thing. It doesn't mean that things can't turn around, but the flagrant way in which your wife has pursued her affair leads me to believe that you have to take every step to protect yourself and your DD.

I hope that your offer includes you maintaining primary custody of your DD and a stipulation that she not be exposed to her OM, though. Your wife is so destructive that I would be concerned that she would expose your DD to her OM. That is how little kids end up molested and abused. Your W is not in her right mind and can't be trusted to look out for the best interests of your DD.

We have had WW's who were in affairs with internet pervs who were actually seeking contact with the WW's DAUGHTER. So please go to great lengths to protect her from your W's insanity.

Yep! Ditto!

There are many folk here that can help with the divorce. Keep posting.

Thanks my friends, I am not ignoring you, I have a ton of junk on my desk preventing me concentrating at the moment. I will get my work caught up and will fill you in on the details tomorrow. Once again�Thanks.

TTF--what's going on with you? I know you're going through alot right now but, you haven't told us what happened with the trip and what it was exactly that got you to the point of filing?

I hope you are doing okay--we are all concerned about you. Please give us an update.

Yup, ditto.

You're not "alone" TTF.

opt

Bump - lots of us care about ttf . . .

Wonder what happened to TTF? TTF, where are you???

TTF-

Are you still checking in at all? How are you doing?