Marriage is 4 Y.O. - Relationship is 6 Y.O. I'm 40 she's 32 - both of us are childfree. I've read SAA and HNHN and almost every article on this site.

WW exposed A in March '09. I exposed it her family and mine. (It makes me sick that most of her family already knew!) OM is divorced because of his own infidelity in his previous M. WW and I tried to work through A with a counselor. WW moved out and eventually stopped individual counseling claiming she was "too busy", but really she was too busy with OM. I plan A'd her anyway - tirelessly - and tonight she admitted I am the best friend she has.

Right after Thanksgiving, while OM was out of town, we went on a date. It ended back at my place with her asking for a D. I figured out she was moving in with him (short-term as per his wishes) because she could no longer afford a place on her own, so she felt she needed to stop stringing me along and D. I was ready to Plan B her Friday, 12/4. THAT morning at 4AM, she asked me to help her move back home. I requested she write a letter of NC - she agreed and I helped her move.

OH - the reason for her sudden return is she confirmed (which she's been denying to herself all along) that he's got at least three other women he's sleeping with.

A week has past and she will not write the letter. Now, she is planning to move out so she can help him overcome his "sexual addiction". She has also shared with me that she is pursuing being a movie, TV, book & music producer - running her own company - and an actress. Plus, she will be keeping her full-time job.

I've been fighting to keep M together since March and now I don't have any hope that we can recover even if Plan B works. The chasing of her "dreams" will not permit recovery, in my opinion - she'll be working at least 90 hours a week plus weekends. We won't see each other so we can't meet EN's. Plus, she is obviously not in the frame of mind to reconcile or begin recovery, anyway.

I dunno if this is the fog doing the thinking...? Her family has/had a few penniless, hard-working dreamers that die trying.

Like I said, I was ready for Plan B. The letter is written and I've got everything mentally lined up to go dark. I've spent the last few months working on me and I'm SO much more emotionally healthy than I've ever been. But now I feel it's pointless to drag this on any longer and it's time I started over.

Betrayed,

Sorry you need to be here.

Does she have any known psychiatric issues?

She has not been diagnosed as bi-polar or anything of that nature.

HOWEVER, our psychologist does believe she is affected by PTSD from watching her father rape her mother and the Dr also feels she may have been molested as a child and is blocking it.

The Dr also says she suffers from brutally low self-worth. I've been doing everything I can to boost it and maybe that's why I have "best friend" status.

She has an issue with dependency in relationships. The Dr. identified for her that she is currently maintaining three dependent/codependent relationships - The OM, her mom and a business partner. The Dr. was trying to help her establish her independence, but she self-sabotaged.

She suffers from depression and admits the A helped pull her out as every new relationship in her life has in the past. The Dr. feels the depression is linked to PTSD.

I'm sorry, but someone with that many psychological problems is NOT going to get better. You'll spend the second half of your adult life being her surrogate parent, not her lover.

Cat - For what it's worth, a good friend of mine made the same observation.

Betrayed,

I am sorry you are here. I like Cat's observation it is dead on. Further, if she asks for a divorce you cannot stop her. So let her actions speak for themselves, they already are.

You have never been in recovery, therefore with the A going on the MC was a waste of time. She is addicted, she has huge emotional problems and frankly she is affairing down.

You cannot fix her and there is a lot of fixing to do in this situation. I say protect yourself and let this run its course. You have done all you can do. You have exposed, you have tried counseling, you have done plan B. Now I think it is time you are DONE.

She has to come to the point where she will address her issues, her A, her claims to need a divorce. You two have not been married long, but she seems very very emotionally immature. YOu cannot cure that either.

Step back and see what she does.

My opinion.

JL

Thanks JL - Just to clarify, I never got to enact Plan B - she came back the morning of the day I was going to start. But I do see everything you're saying.

I agree that it s time for plan B. I was going to ask you the question about psychiatric problems too, because I am bipolar, and when I got manic, I had all sorts of grandiose plans. Of course they never came to fruition.

She has to hit bottom. She won't do that as long as she has a safety net. I would say go to the darkest plan B this world has ever seen.

Thanks luri. The nagging issue I'm dealing with right now is that I did not expose to his family. I've found about a dozen of his family members through his facebook page a couple of days ago. At this point, I question if it is worth exposing before going dark or if moving straight to Plan B is the better approach.

I wish I had found his family members sooner! He changed his "public" last name so I had no idea he had so many family members on his facebook page until I figured out the name-change.

Expose, take the heat. The "I was going to work it out with you but now that you have done this I am filing", "How could you hurt me like this." "I hate you for what you have done." "you have cost me my friends and made my family and your hate me." On it goes, they read from the script until they hit a button.

You need to hear all of this for completeness, just so you know this is standard stuff.

Then you smile, say I'm sorry you feel this way but I will do what it takes to fight for my marriage.

And then you give it a few days, and if she is still playing games you go to plan B. A very very very dark plan B.

JL

I'm sorry but YES it is time to pull the plug...

Thanks JL. The exposure letter is written and I'm sending the messages to his family this morning.

Oooo - Facebook doesn't like it when you send the same message to a lot of people in a short amount of time. I contacted six people and got a message that my activity was suspicious and my account would be blocked if I didn't slow down. I guess this will take the better part of the day to slowly perform.

FB is strange that way. My friend got "in trouble" when she was helping plan her reunion. It will take several rounds.

All sent!

WW spent last night on the couch - she was sleeping in our bed until last night. She woke up and started getting ready for work just as I sent the last of the exposure notes to OM's family.

I told her that I supported her plan to move out and she thanked me and gave me a huge hug. I also told her that I am still fighting for the marriage - after all, I'd just sent a dozen letters to expose the A. She said that she too was fighting for the M. Riiiight - okay - lie to me some more!

I also told her that I was going to hit the road 12/18 and wouldn't be back until early January. I'm going east to visit my family and plan going UBER-dark during that time while I have their support.

Before she left, she said she was going to spend tonight at OM's place "on the couch" and "because she has to work in his area tomorrow" - it's over an hour from my place. This could be a very interesting night for them!

I don't understand. Why would you tell her that?

Recall that she only returned home last Friday after she confirmed OM is seeing three other women. And a condition of her return was an NC letter. She has refused to write the NC letter and said she needs to be on her own so she can "sort things out" and "try to fix him". She has said that being home "doesn't feel right" and acknowledges it is largely because she is still pining for OM. She says she wants to be on her own so that she can do what she needs to be to fix him without feeling guilty for talking to him in our home.

In addition, countless people in her life (including her therapist) have told her she has emotional dependency issues and the best way to work through them is to establish her independence and start fixing herself. She SAYS this will help her do that.

I told her I support her decision (partially, to call her bluff) and added the caveat that I do not agree with it, but I will support her. It is continuation of Plan A and set-up of Plan B. After all, I can't go dark if she's living with me.

In my opinion, you are enabling this affair. It's like she's a child getting her parents' permission to spend the night at a friends' house but, she's actually going to make love to another man and her husband is giving her permission to do so.

AND, your going out of town for a few weeks without your W??? I wouldn't be surprised if she has OM over to your house doing it with him in YOUR bed... This is not good--at all.

You are contributing...IMHO

Thanks for your feedback StillDawn. I understand your interpretation and I have to admit that I do not understand how my actions are any different from Plan B. I'm sorry to sound confused.

She moved out once in May. During that time, she was doing whatever she wanted with whomever she wanted and I was actively working Plan A after exposing to her/my family and friends. She repeated her request for D LESS THAN ONE WEEK before asking to come home.

It sounds as though you are suggesting I somehow attempt to force her to stay which would not help Plan B. Furthermore, it would invariably involve conflict given her irrational state of mind (she's BEYOND foggy) subsequently leading to withdrawals from her Love Bank.

Unless I'm grossly misinterpreting the MB philosophy, I'm doing the right things.

[quote=BetrayedInLA]I have to admit that I do not understand how my actions are any different from Plan B. I'm sorry to sound confused.

quote]

L.A.
Have you read the section on this website about Plan B?

Plan B is esentially laying out your terms to your WW for working on recovery. When and only when she demonstrates to you that she is willing to meet those terms and actually does it and STOPS HAVING AN A is plan B taking place.

Plan B also entails going dark--until the Wayward spouse is willing to meet your requests.

From the way things sound, you are far from being dark. You are supposed to be having NO CONTACT with the WW while you are in plan B but, you are letting her come and go from your home as she wishes.

If I am wrong, someone please correct this. I will read myself again about Plan B and what it entails but, right now it sounds like you are just letting her have her way and gaslighting you. She is cake eating, in other words.

You are going to have "conflict"--an Affair IS conflict and it is imposing upon your marriage but, you are just letting her do whatever she wants with no consequences from you. That is all I'm trying to say.

This is a portion of what Dr. Harley says about Plan B:

"Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B."

Hope this helps. And, there are some threads that talk more about Plan A and Plan B.

Hey Dawn,

I think we're on the same page - she came back before I initiated Plan B. My supporting her decision to move out is a step toward being able to implement Plan B.

Plan B begins when she moves out this time.

OK. Good deal. You just don't want to let her wipe her feet on you like a doormat. If she wants to go, then, that's what she wants but just make it clear that you are not there for her to run to when the going gets rough.

When she leaves, you should give her a Plan B letter. There is an example somewhere here in the threads. Maybe someone can hook you up with that. But, you give her the letter letting her know that this are your requirements if, in the event she should want to return.

Then, dark. Totally dark. No seeing, talking, emailing--no contacting her any way or accepting her contact unless she is ready to comply and has a letter of no contact written out for your review and approval and for YOU to mail. If she is not willing to let this man go are you willing to be a packup plan? I hope not. It really sounds like this woman is a concrete block attached to your feet...bringing you down. That's just my opinion though.
Just be ready to stick to your guns if you tell her you are planning the Plan B. She needs to understand it completely. No running back and teetering on the fence.

Thanks StillDawn!

I copied the letter nearly verbatim from the SAA book. It's ready to go, but I just got an angry call from OM.

OM came unglued that I exposed and (as StillDawn knows) he threatened a lawsuit. He called back just a few minutes later and told me he'd dumped her and asked that I never contact his family again. I told him I would leave his family out of my life as long as he left my family (meaning my wife) out of his. And he said he'd only see her if she showed divorce papers and I told him I would fight for the marriage until FINAL papers were filed which is 6 months after being served here in CA.

He's hot as the sun right now and I can only imagine what he's putting her through!

I wouldn't believe he is dumping her.

Hope for it but do not fall for the line.

Time will tell.

WW is coming over right now to move her stuff out.

Is it a lovebuster for me to NOT help?

I'm fairly certain she is going to tell me she wants D. My plan is to PLAN B her tonight - the letter is written.

I just don't know if I should Plan B her as she starts loading the truck or after the truck is loaded...?

ARE YOU KIDDING? Drink a beer and watch some TV while she is loading all her crap! DUDE

That's what the vengeful side of me says to do, but that's a lovebuster and not part of Plan A.

It's really up to you...if you are trying to Plan A her until the last minute, it might be a good move.

If you decide not to do it, it might be a good "I really don't want you to do this, so I just can't bring myself to HELP you move out" move. Can you say that to her in a VERY non-LBing manner...showing your very hurt, disappointed self? If so, then it would be fine not to help her, IMO.

Six of one, half dozen of another, IMNSHO.

P.S. if you are going to Plan B, I hope you have an IM ready? Are you changing the locks?

Those two things are really crucial if you want to do a SUCCESSFUL Plan B. Anything less is really a waste of time, I've seen it dozens of times around here.

I'm sorry this is happening right now. I remember this night well.

THAT I can do! Thanks!

IM? I hadn't planned on changing the locks - just collecting the keys.

Thanks for the sympathy, but honestly, I've been through such hell with the on and off status of this relationship since March that I'm looking forward to not thinking of it anymore and just focusing on myself.

IM is an Intermediary...you want NO CONTACT with WW and an IM is somebody who will pass any VERY important info back and forth for you. You will never get the full benefits of Plan B without an IM.

If you don't have one, you really should wait until tomorrow to give her your PBL, after lining an IM up. Also post your PBL here to make sure it's all covered. (Change the title of your thread if you do that to get help with it).

Even if she hands the key over she could have a spare and you don't want her waltzing in at anytime and possibly start taking whatever she wants from the house (marital property) and you don't want that.

I still suggest changing the locks.

CHANGE THE LOCKS, WHAT IS GOING TO COST: LIKE $25. AND 15 MINUTES?

Ah! I do have an intermediary. And I copied the Plan B letter nearly verbatim from the SAA book. I would post it, but it's hand-written and I gotta make myself busy/scarce very soon.

I'll have to see what I can do about the locks. We're in an apartment and her name is on the lease, so I'm not certain what my legal reach is.

All her personal belongings are out.

She told me that she had left OM and that she didn't want anyone in her life - she "just wants to focus on her career". She asked for D again. I acknowledged her. I told her I understand why she feels she's doing the right thing, but I still put Plan B in effect.

Time will tell.

Change the locks- sends a strong message.

Save yourself! Go dark as you can, quickly. No holiday "Hail Mary" reprieve.>sp?

You need a break. Take good care of yourself. If you are obsessing, AD's really help calm you down.

She is with the OM.

This isn't easy. It's been 24 hours, but I'm weathering the storm. I'm troubleshooting a minor computer glitch I've been "too busy" to work on for months.

Yeah right.

Dark!

Like a tar-covered black panther in the deepest part of the jungle on a moonless night!

I met with our therapist tonight and she was really proud of the steps I had taken. She feels my WW is potentially borderline bipolar disorder II, but she wasn't able to see her long enough to make the call. She warned me that WW is running from all of her life's problems and she feels WW will not hit rock bottom for a very long time - a decade or more - because she is extremely attractive and has countless guys who she can use for support.

In the meantime, I FIXED my computer tonight and I'm attending a party my apartment complex is throwing tomorrow night.

As for the locks - WW is on the lease and the locks can be changed, but she can go into the office and ask for a key and they cannot legally prohibit entry - they would have to give her a key. If papers are filed, I MAY be able to get her removed. Otherwise, the lease is up in May...

Change the locks. Make sure you tell ALL the people in the office there why you are doing it, and tell them that you would appreciate any help they can give you to (1) give her a hard time if she comes for a key (as in 'oh, YOU'RE that woman...;) and (2) make it hard for her to get the key ('oh, there isn't a second one; we'll have to go to Home Depot to get new keys made; come back in a couple days, ok?')

Doesn't really matter cat. She will call a lock smith if she has to and they cannot deny her entry.
How do you think I searched XH car while he was on a "trip" and he took the only key we had?

Actually, SIHW, it is an effective, albeit tiny, extra step in the shakeup of WW. Every little incident that shows her life will not be pleasant as a wayward is worth the effort. And if she has to face said women as they judge her...well, sorry, but that can have an effect.

Oh I am not saying it won't have an effect....what I am saying not matter if he changes the locks or not. Once the "effect" hits then will come the angry stubborness of..."you can't tell me what to do..my name is on the lease and I am getting in one way or another"

Remeber he is dealng with someone who is most likely Bi-polar.

Waynerds tend to do stupid things when they can't get what they want and they know they have a legal right to do it. Especially when they have mental issues.

One week of Plan B is down. Sadness seems to be replaced with anger.

Oh, I so get that!

BinLA, I hate to break this to you, but it's going to get worse before it gets better. I'm only a few weeks ahead of you, and I can tell you the emotional rollercoaster is far from over.

This is what works for me: Stay busy. I find the worst times are when I'm lying in bed (see my signature for my thread title). It doesn't really matter what I'm doing, as long as I'm doing something. I also find it helps to surround myself with caring people who don't let me simmer in my stuff.

I find this site a mixed blessing. Sometimes I come on here and just need to post. Even if it's nothing, just venting seems to help. At other times, I get depressed reading all the stories of people in the same (or usually worse) condition. I have to temper that, somehow.

But I think the bottom line is that these feelings are natural and expected. One of my character flaws is that I tend to stuff my feelings, and coming here helps me get in contact with them and identify them. This is how we grow through this.

Keep coming back, BinLA. We are your "support group." We'll listen to you, and many will hug you when you need a hug (OK, it's virtual, but get over it). Together we can get through this. Alone, we're sunk.

Thanks for the support Fred. I'm also seeing "our" therapist who assures me my marriage's problems are largely a part of my wife's dysfunctions and deception. Logically, I know I shouldn't miss her after how she lied to me for YEARS about more things than just the affairs, but emotionally - well, you know.

Getting out has been the key! I'm out of town with family and that's really helpful!! I've built a profile on meetup.com and am going out doing things like sea kayaking, beachside bonfires, and movies with dinner discussions afterward. It all helps.

You know what else is wonderful? Volunteering. This is a great time of year to find some place to volunteer.

Betrayed

Have you considered having a session with Dr. Harley? Sounds like your current counselor is making excuses for WW...???

Did you read SAA? Think about contacting Dr. Harley...

Merry Christmas.

No, I haven't. Our counselor is very concerned for WW because she is not attending therapy anymore and C feels WW desperately needs it. C advised WW to end contact with OM and that's when she claimed she was "too busy" to attend and "the therapist wasn't doing any good anyway".




I've read it. And I followed the Plan A advice well enough that WW came back home "because it was safe", but the a-hole OM just WOULD NOT stop calling. Unfortunately, our problems are exacerbated by WW's ACA and love addiction and she has found the DRAMA she craves from an "Emotional Avoidant" and believes it is her lot in life to fix him.

I have fought so long, so hard and been so brutally emotionally abused by her that I've lost my will to fight. To make matters worse, I've spent so much time and energy fixing myself that WW had the gall to say, "you're just not f***ed up enough for me". I mean, how do you respond to that?!?

I'm resting over the holiday helping my parents with little projects around their house that are keeping me from thinking about her and our situation. I may be able to find renewed fight in me in 2010. But for right now, I really need the rest this trip is affording me.

If you do decide to fight (though I'm not sure I want you to), make your first step making a visit to POS OM.

The POS OM confronted me about two weeks ago when I exposed their affair to his family. Our conversation was illuminating, to say the least. In fact, what I learned from listening to him is one reason I've lost some of my fight. While he made every effort in his pea-brain to judge ME for fighting for my marriage, his statements revealed to me that she has told him a LOT of lies about me/our marriage in order for him to fall into the rescuer role of a codependency triangle. While we were on the phone, I exposed three of her lies and attempted to cite irrefutable evidence although I know better than to underestimate the power of denial of these two addicts.

I feel sorry for her.

Two weeks and two days into Plan B and while I was away from home visiting family, I felt sorry for myself. My family was really supportive!!!

Now that I'm back home, I'm faced with all of the things that remind me of her and keep finding myself angry as hell! When I find a reminder of her, I do what I can to deal with it. Sometimes that means throwing it away - other times it means hiding it away in a box.

What's REALLY interesting in all of this is that we had sat down over a month ago and started filling out online information for D. While we did it, I told her that I disagreed with what she was doing - I told her it was a mistake - but that I was going to support her no matter what. Well, we filled in all of my information and she only needs to enter info about her credit card debt. A month has passed and she has not done anything with the filing. Huh!

It's been a month of no contact and I'm really feeling better about letting go. I booked a trip to Russia today. I'm planning a December '10 trek to Machu Picchu with the same buddy traveling to Russia with me.

WW seems to be moving forward with D... and I'm okay with it. The attorney called me for info and I provided it... without emotion.

Strangely, I don't feel defeated. It's really weird... I feel liberated. I do feel sorry for her. I realize she's running from a lot of problems. But I also realize it is not up to me to save her.

{{{betrayed}}}

I think you'll be amazed at all the wonderful women out there just dying to find someone as good as you. Who'll make you feel as cherished as you deserve.

I was amazed the other day that after a meeting a woman who has been coming for about 18 months and with whom I've never spoken before came up to me after and told me how good I was looking.



Don't get me wrong -- I was flattered by the comment and the attention. I was very emotional about my sitch a few weeks ago in this meeting. But I'm still married and I'm not in any way, shape or form ready to start anything with anybody.

But I have to admit that cat's observation seems to be right on target. Perhaps in a few months...

I believe Cat's observation is spot on. I also think that's one reason I don't feel defeated.

Before I met my WW, I was a very gregarious, outgoing individual. I would approach gorgeous women most men were afraid to look at for fear of being caught staring. Since I have stopped feeling sorry for myself, I feel my old self returning. Living in SoCal means no shortage of amazingly beautiful women. But like Fred said, it's not quite yet time and I too am still married. And, "amazingly beautiful" does not necessarily equate to amazing, as this marriage/experience has painfully taught me.

In the spirit of getting on with my life AND to solve the problem with the WW being on the lease/having legal access to the apartment, I worked with my apartment complex to upgrade my apartment and take on a roommate. He and I are getting a 2BR/2BA apt., my monthly rent burden is going to be almost HALF of what it is now, February is free (bonus!), and the apartment complex contacted the WW telling her she was in violation of the lease, but they'd release her with a signature.

Solutions to problems eventually present themselves as long as we patiently pursue them.

It has been six weeks since I instituted Plan B. In those six weeks, I have not contacted WW, at all.

But, I don�t feel I have been COMPLETELY dark:
My apartment complex contacted WW to get her to sign paperwork to remove her name from the lease.
As previously mentioned, she started filling in online forms for D. The service contacted me for addl. information and I supplied it.
I deactivated her AMEX card.
I closed our joint checking account.

Besides that, she is unaware of any aspect of my life; I have not contacted her directly. I haven�t even asked my IM to convey a message.

WW BROKE THE AGREEMENT TODAY AND CONTACTED ME.

A couple of weeks ago, to explain why her signature was needed to terminate the lease, my apartment complex informed her I was moving within the complex. Tuesday, she sent an e-mail to my leasing agent asking for my new address. The leasing agent asked me if I wanted her to share it and I asked her to reply �legally, we cannot supply private information about our tenants.� She did that. Today, WW sent ME an e-mail asking me for my new address.

I believe the rules of Plan B are that I simply ignore the e-mail.

I welcome your comments.

Correct.

Ignore.

Ignored and deleted!

Here's a funny tidbit - WW has a few e-mail addresses. 99% of our e-mail correspondence for the last five years has been via her primary, old & established e-mail address, which goes straight to her CrackBerry. We RARELY e-mailed via her �Mrs. X� e-mail addy she created when we married. And when I say �rarely�, I mean we e-mailed via that address less than ten times vs. nearly DAILY e-mails on her primary address.

SO, from which e-mail addy does she choose to send her request? Does she choose the one that is at her fingertips 24/7? NO! She chose her Mrs. X address. In some ways it pisses me off that this person says she does not want to be married, but is using the only e-mail address she has that has her married name applied to it AND her married name IS the e-mail address @yahoo � all of other addresses use her maiden name, business name or stage name. I know her choice to use that account was deliberate! I could just about spit nails right now!!

Can't top ignore and delete advice. Then BAM! block her email address.

No more emails to ignore and delete. Does the sender find out that they have been blocked?

I just tested it by blocking my personal e-mail address@yahoo from receiving e-mail from my work e-mail address. There has been no notification to my work e-mail that the messages were blocked.

Did she let you pet her guide dog, Fred? Just kidding. You are studdly to the max.

OK, Z, that was really funny.........

TB

I thought the "studdly" comment was funnier than the guide dog crack!

She sent another e-mail today. The new e-mail is wrapped in the guise that she needs me to change her Doctor in my insurance. She IS on my insurance, but she got a job a couple of months ago with her OWN insurance - perhaps she hasn't started it yet or it's not active. I don't know.

She reiterated her request for my address saying that she needs it to send divorce papers. Our state does not let you "send" papers - the papers have to be served. She can send them to my office as that address has not changed.

Personally, I feel she's reaching FAR for reasons to contact me. I'm tempted to send what appears to be an official "auto-generated" reply that says "your message was undeliverable".

As always, I welcome your input.

hmmmmmm

I can only think of something VERY non-MB.

In your tag line you wrote


If you know where any of these dudes are living, give her his (their) address.

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me bad, I know, I know.

I do have one OM's address... but she knows I have it...

I was joking (sorta).

Give her the DMV address.

I know. I'm just... angry/heartbroken/stressed/pissed/irritated/frazzled/exhausted et al. I'm moving this weekend - starting tonight. And she hit me with that JUST as I was leaving work and AGAIN, she chose her MARRIED e-mail account.

Plan B has been tough enough and I felt like I was making progress. Now that she's reached out twice in three days, I have lost some of my confidence that I was making progress.

LA.

I think your doing a great job..... I believe your are making great progress !!!


The fact that she wants your new address I think shows she wants to know where you are...... it gives her some security .....

She my have left home but she wants to know where home is !!!

Your in uncharted territory me .....I gave my WW my plan B letter after a long plan-A and she caved....

You have a sound plan .....it's one that she forced you to make.... she knows what it takes to change that......

Be confident that you have done everything possible to save your marriage

Stay the course

Thank you. I forwarded her e-mail to my IM. I told him to expect to hear from her, but to NOT reply to or acknowledge any communication that varied from how it was outlined in the Plan B letter.

I decided to ignore her second e-mail. Now to move!

Yeah, YOU !

Silence can be a painful consequence to a WW.

Ok everyone, I was drawn from the dark today. WW called my IM who foolishly said �just call him at work�. ARGH! In a very calm tone, WW left a message asking me to quit ignoring her because she �just wants to hurry up and get everything done and over with since I obviously don�t have any interest in her any longer.� The tone in her message was one of defeat�

I called the IM confirming that he�d given her the message. He also said she was digging for info � �how is he?� �what�s he doing?� �where�s he living?� Heh-heh-heh.

I then called her back and we talked very calmly for an hour. She said OM had dumped her � he didn�t like being exposed. I explained to her that I�d called back to help her understand I distanced myself to protect myself and TRY to save the marriage, and not because I �don�t have any interest in her�. I made her repeat that to me at two different points during the conversation. She�s extremely perplexed/intrigued and wanting to talk about our future. We had to cut the discussion short, but she said she would call tonight.

She misplaced the Plan B letter during her move, so she said she couldn�t refer to it. UGH!

I�m finding myself in an interesting situation because I have a new roommate, a new apartment and I�m no longer insanely fighting to hold the marriage together. Oddly, because I exhausted all of my emotional energy, I find myself in a better state of mind to deal with the immensity of the problem using reason, warmth and compassion instead of desperation. I can safely say the lack of contact did me a whole world of good. Who knew?!? Amazingly, my indifference to the situation seems to be helping both of us through it.

Betrayed
I think you are doing a great job--you are putting yourself first and looking out for YOUR protection.

Frankly, I'm not sure why you would even WANT to save this marriage. Your WW is crawling to you because her OM dumped her. What happens when the next OM comes along?

If you could get past this situation with WW, you would be so much better off in the long run. You would be saving yourself from a lifetime of greif from this obviously mentally ill woman. She needs more than marriage or OM to help her. She needs to get her mental illness under control.
You are doing a great job. I hope that you REMINDED her that she is to NOT contact you--just your IM and reminded your IM that this is what he is supposed to be doing--being an IM and not telling the WW to contact you?

You are setting yourself free IMO.
Keep up the good work.

And, Betrayed--there are millions of worthy, non mentally ill women in the world...

I hope that you told her to NOT call...she is reeling you back in. Almost sounds like a psychopath to me.

Thanks StillDawn.

She did not call - she texted that she was working late. May be true, may not be - the beauty of being indifferent is that I don't care.

I agree with you that she needs to get treatment. I also agree she is trying to reel me back in. To her detriment, I have met SO MANY amazing women in the last few weeks that my head is spinning with the possibilities. I made it clear to her that she has to take care of herself before I will be drawn back into her situation. She does not understand what that means and is seeking my clarification.

I am in a really good place to let her go. The hard work is all up to her, now. She can try to pull me back in, but I'm sitting on the sidelines for the foreseeable future.

Betrayed
You sound like a really good guy and IMO, you deserve ALOT better than what this woman has to offer you. She seems like a concrete block pulling you under.

As you said, you have seen the possibilities that you could have a much better (and less baggage) relationship.

I think you should stick to your Plan B and your IM and STOP communicating with this woman. If she can not find it, send her another copy.

She wants clarification from you? About what? About her A? About her needing to get some psychological treatment?

Mark my words...if you keep dealing with this woman, you are setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointment, heartache and stress.

Tell her if and when she contacts you again to please find the Plan B letter and that you would appreciate it if she would respect your requests. She is not respecting you right now, just trying to see if she can get you back. In other words, using your sympathy against you for her gain. Like I said...psychopathy. Mind games.

If you care about you, realize that you are better off and find someone who will respect you.

StillDawn,

Let me say upfront that I do agree with you!

Here are my traps: First, my plan B letter told her not to contact me if she was seeing OMs - she says she's not.

Second, Plan B isn't supposed to be a Plan D - it's supposed to be about saving the marriage. With that in mind, you and I both realize she has to fix herself or there is no marriage.

So, if I do as you suggest, I move out of Plan B and into Plan D. Again, I'm not disagreeing with your suggestion, merely clarifying.

During our conversation, she said she did not comprehend how silence was supposed to save the marriage. I began to explain that it was the silence - the lack of bickering, arguing, fighting and the absence of a loved one that is supposed to help one sort through their own feelings. That is why she wanted to call me back � to have me explain what so she could not understand.

Clinically speaking, she is not a psychopath. She feels deeply hurt by the mess she created for anyone who was pulled into this crap. She is taking responsibility for it, too. She is ashamed of what she�s done. She�s trying to run away from everyone because of the shame.

Clinically speaking, she IS suffering from dangerously low self-worth, very poor boundary control and she is emotionally-dependent AND codependent. She suffers from depression and SAD. She has been diagnosed as a love addict. She is the embodiment of every single one of the twelve characteristics of an ACA � according to both her and her psychologist. Her psychologist firmly believes she suffers from PTSD and is suppressing an incident of molestation. Her doc also feels she may suffer from Bipolar Disorder II. Her therapist feels she would benefit from weekly treatment, but that it would take two to five years to help her.

Thank you for your kind words (RE: nice guy). If I was a nice guy, I�d call her and tell her, �you�re right � we need to divorce. I�m sorry I it ended this way. Good luck.� But, I won�t do that. I�ve told her she�s running from her problems and I disagree with her decision. I AM laying the divorce on her conscience so that I know that I did everything in my power to save the marriage.

I know this won't win me any popularity contests, but I AM looking for someone who will respect me - I fully predict WW to continue running and like I've said, I'm okay with that.

Talked to WW last night. She's alone and has identified she needs therapy - says she'll go. We've agreed to stay in our respective corners for the time being.

I thought you were in plan B?
That means no talking to her until the conditions of your Plan B letter are met, or until you D.

Block her email addresses.
If she calls you again, just have the IM send her a copy of the Plan B letter.

Or was the talk last night for her to say she was going to meet all the conditions you laid out? If she did that, then I jumped the gun and I apologize.

No problem - she met the conditions of the Plan B letter.

Did your Plan B letter say anything about her getting therapy for all of the above mentioned problems? How do you know for sure that she is not seeing anyone? Because she said so?

I still can't imagine why you would not jump at the chance to be free of all this heartache. Something as serious as all of the above referenced disorders will not be "cured" and you will be dealing with them for a lifetime.

There are so many other "normal" non mentally-ill women out there!!

And, with multiple ONS's and A's...you are just a much stronger willed person than I, my friend. Good luck to you with this one.

No, the letter did not say she had to fix herself before contacting me. I don't know she's not cheating - I'm also not moving into recovery. It's a weird place for me. I'm truly keeping my distance and waiting for her to take action. I'm not calling, I'm not asking her to move back - in fact I told her to take care of herself and let me know how she is from time to time. I really can't explain myself. I just see she has a long journey ahead and wish her luck and want a postcard when she gets there...


Freud introduced us to the idea that we seek a partner who is the embodiment of our opposite sex parent. With that said, I know that I fell for her because of my own personal demons from my childhood. It is only in the last year that I've worked through them - thanks in part to her affair. I can't tell you how much her affair has helped me grow (up).



I know! I'm meeting a LOT of them.

Keep your steps in order...

I know you are a man of integrity ......


Look but don't touch...... If your done then get that D....


The last thing you want to do is get into a relationship before you D ......

I know you don't want the complication in your life .... you could find yourself in your worst night mare.... in a new relationship.....not D yet .....and the WW ready for a genuine recovery....

You're right. I am making lots of new friends - looking without touching. I'm rebuilding myself so that I'm ready for what lies ahead.

WW called - wants to start dating and attempting to reconnect to see if we can make it work. She asked me to start calling and texting and keeping in touch. I told her that I appreciated her gesture, but I didn't want to rush into recovery. I shared that it was important to get therapy to get the INDIVIDUALS right before the M would ever be right.

She said she was going to start. Time will tell. I'm not holding my breath, but I do hope she finds what she needs.