Hi

I'm very new here. I and my husband are having problems at the moment. And I don't know where to start.
I think it started when he went for holidays with his friend in phuket last year. Before that we were having some small fights already but gladly we managed to resolve it whenever we have fights and arguments. I know I somehow hurt my husband at somepoint. He told me that, one thing he didn't like is when we had fights and I don't say anything. I usually shut up and don't say anything and cry and usually wait for 24 hrs before I can start to talk. But whenever we have situations like this, we ended up ok and we forgive each other and sometimes he realized that it's his fault and we tried to promise that it will never happen again. I usually don't delve on the past although sometimes it's a hurtful experience. I tried to forget it and move on. I didn't know that my husband are carrying all of these until we had a big fight after his holidays.
Late October last year, most every week we were arguing some petty things and then it will lead to big fights. He became impatient with me and I became very sensitive in every thing. He told me that I don't have tolerance with him. The cause of our fights includes for example, if I asked something and if I don't understand it, he will suddenly shout and sounded aggresive. Most of my reaction was is to cry and don't talk to him anymore and felt sad. This was usually the case. Until I piled up all those things and I felt that my husband doesn't care for me anymore. Even our sex life was also affected. He's not most of the time in the mood and always tell me that it has nothing to do with me, his reason was always that his tired and he needs more sleep. So I tried to understand and accepted it even if its sometimes difficult for me.
With this re-occuring small fights that lead to big fights and even sometimes hurting each other's feelings, I didn't know that my husband is keeping all these and sharing these to his friend, which I also consider like a brother and one of my favorite friend for him.
I realized later that he always go out with this friend and eat in one of the fancy restaurants. But I never complained because for me it's also important that he can meet his friend once in awhile. We are actually open to this situations, like going out with our friends alone. And it was really never a problem for me before.
And if I go out, I also have to see if we have enough budget for the month, since my earnings is not that high compared to my husband. Actually he's paying most of the expenses we have and what I earned is usually a back-up in case of emergency. We also talked about our financial status and since he's doing our payments, he told me once in awhile if we still have budget or not. But most of the time, I always heard from him like this: "We have to save because we don't have much money left in the account and we still have to pay for our tax this year". That's why whenever we go out, I usually don't want to spent much even though if I like something for myself or if I like to eat to this restaurant because I know what's the status of our finances, based on what my husband told me.
Now the worst part last year was this, he usually said that we have to save because we still have to pay for our tax and I have to help him. Of course I was ready to help him because that's what we've agreed. But during the course of the month of October, we saw some cheap flights and I told him maybe we could go for a short weekend holiday. He also said that would be nice but we don't have budget in the moment. We can do that next time, as soon as we can pay our taxes this year. I said its ok, it's not really a problem. One day he went out with his friend for dinner. The following day he told me what they had for dinner and he shared me their stories and then at the end, he told me his friend told him that he would like to invite him if he'll win from stocks for holidays. When I heard that I didn't have a doubt and I was happy for him when I heard, that his friend will pay for his holidays. I even jokingly asked him what if his friend will win, he said no, because his friend was only joking and he think he can't do that because he don't have any holidays left. I even teased him that he can go. But we didn't talk about it anymore. I even said that his friend is very cool because he will invite him for holidays. But later we were out one night, he asked me again, if it's ok for me if he'll go for a week in phuket. I happily said yes. And he even asked me three times, and I said yes, I also told him that if he can get a free holiday he has to grab the opportunity because its not always. I saw how happy he was and I was also happy for him. Maybe it was also my fault because I said yes without thinking that he also needs some pocket money with him. But I was thinking since it's in asia its not that expensive compared to the continent where I'm living now. So I really didn't ask because I was so excited for him.
When he told me that time we were out for a drink, and I went to the bathroom. When I went back I saw him texting and I asked casually who's that. That time I felt something strange his actions was quite weird but I didn't mind. He then kept his mobile phone and told me that was his friend, he told me that he already informed his friend that I said yes that he can go. I was surprised because usually when he wants to talk or send sms to his friend we're usually together. Or maybe he would even sometimes suggests like :"Ok I'll text my friend now etc..." But that time, if I can remember he looks like he's hiding something. And even don't want to show me what he told his friend. But I didn't mind that time because I thought it was just nothing. I wanted to ask but for me it wasn't really a big deal.
The following day his friend wrote him an email telling him that he will only pay for 200$. And the rests are taking care of by his friend. I was still joking that time, that I'll call his friend and tell him what about me?;-) But it was all a joke and my husband knew that as well. His friend actually called that time and I even teased them that I also want to go, but his friend explained to me that they are going there because they're going to attend a sailing race of their friend. And it's only for all guys. And then I said no it's ok that was just a joke. Of course you can enjoy the sailing race there. Lately I told my husband that even he'll contribute 200$, I think it's not enough and I think he also have to pay sometime for his friend or even invite his friend sometime while they're there. And then he told me that he'll actually pay 400$ because they were not able to get the cheapest offer. Then I start to wonder, 200$ actually is still ok, 400$ is already quite expensive, because at the end I was thinking he also need some pocket money and I asked him how much would be his pocket money he said he might bring 1000$ for him if in case. I was more surprised because he told me that we don't have money anymore and one of my course he asked me if I could pay for it because he doesn't have enough money for our next expenses, which I didn't question. But then he told me that he will spent 1000$ on his holidays. I felt sad about it, I didn't react because I said it's ok. And then I asked him maybe I should also go to Paris and he was so annoyed and angry and even said in a shouting voice, "What! Paris that's very expensive". All I was expecting was: that he could also maybe happy for me, then he started to mention about our finances again that we're kind of tight at the moment. I felt so sad because I see that it was not fair. We fight about it. And I even told him that I thought we don't have money anymore, but now why he's spending 1000$ and I know if he comes back from holidays he will ask me to transfer money on his account because what he has is not enough. He explained his side, he told me that of course he also need to eat there and pay if they go out or do some shopping. He even asked me back angrily what will he do then, should I let him starved during his holidays? which I think not the point there. Because in the first place he kept on saying that we are tight and now he has still savings on his own. But later we tried to resolve it and I tried to understand again and accept that it's ok. So far it was ok, but of course we were hurt at the same time, because we threw words back and forth. And later he told me that he understand what's my point and even blamed me that I should have said no in the first place. So that was the start of our hurt feelings. I went to Paris 3 days only. And at first we agreed if I go to Paris we have to leave on the same day. But I was able to find a cheap flight week ahead of his flight by using my miles. I asked him if its ok for him that I'll go a week before. He was not actually happy about that. But I tried to explain that its cheaper and if I leave on the same date he leaves we will pay double. We had quite a discussion again but at the end he agreed. I didn't know that after that trip he'll use those action as an attack on me.

I went back after 3 days and we had a good times together again. For almost 3 weeks of planning their holidays they didn't mention where they're going. I was thinking that they're going to Bangkok only. But 3 days before they left, we were looking in the map some countries and then he ended up pointing their destination. He said that they're going to phuket. I told him I thought they're going to Bangkok, and even told him that Phuket is a place for girls who work in a bar. We had discussion again. Because it looks like that I was the last person to know where they're going. We fought again because I told him that this place is not really a good place to go. Because I've heard from a friend, who went there with her bf, she told me even they're already walking hand in hand most of the girls are trying to grab her boyfriend away from her. And it annoyed her and she said that she'll never come back to that place again. We fought again just because of this and he told me that what I did going to Paris was kind of childish, because he see it like this, if he goes, then I should also go. And even going a week before his departure he found it weird. I didn't know why....I thought everything was already ok. But we tried to resolve it again and I tried to be patient with how he treated me. And even tried not to start any topic for discussion before he left because I don't want that we'll have bad feelings when he's away.

They left and the first 2 days were so far so good. Although I felt something was not right. He sometimes texted me that he can't read my MMS even I didn't send one. And if he sent sms and if I replied it will take him quite late to reply back although we just sent sms. But I didn't mind because I was thinking that they were always out or maybe he's relaxing so I didn't bother. And lately I realized that they always went back to their hotel between 4-5am. And then he told me that they went out for dinner and then after that they went for bar hopping and drinking until 5am. Although I wasn't really happy of him going back to their hotel 5am in the morning I didn't complain and I just let it be. Because I don't want to ruin his holidays. But we had misunderstanding again because he accused me that I didn't send him any reply from his sms. That time he just sent me an angry sms telling me, that he don't know why I was angry or what but he will not also send me sms until I show interest to his sms. I was surprised about that, because in the first place I replied to his sms and I even got a delivery report that it was delivered. When I read his sms that night, I didn't reply instead I called him and told him that I sent him reply. He said that he didn't get any. He didn't even apologized for that and even told me that I shouldn't make any drama out of it. We almost fight over the phone that night. But we managed not too because I don't want to ruin his holidays but I could feel that there was already tension going on. Two days after we had misunderstanding again just because of sms. I told him that I got his advent gift for me and said thank you. He even replied to it. Since he was 6 hrs ahead of me, and it was again 4am on his side, before he went to bed, he told me what they did and asked me again if I opened his gift already?...I was kind of annoyed because it seems that he wasn't really reading my sms very well. I called him again and told him that I sent him that information already & he said that he didn't get it. I was surprised again because he actually reply to that earlier. And then he kind of shouted me over the phone telling me that I shouldn't make any drama out of it, just because he forgot what I wrote. We fought a little and at the end I said it's ok, and I cried over the phone. That was like the trigger of all.

The night before they left to the airport, he sent me sms, that they're not going to sleep anymore, instead they're going to stay in the bar until 6am for their bus directly to the airport. I was again surprised about it because usually when we travel together he's the one who always on the first line to mention, that we need to have a good sleep for the next day flight. This little things he did differently makes me wonder why he's instantly acting like that. When he texted me that time I also told him that I was also out having a drink in the bar. And I went home quite late already. They were surprised because until they board I was still replying to his text which means I was still awake until 3am.

I picked them up at the airport the following day and even prepared a welcome note for them, bought apples, water and chocolates to welcome them when they arrived. When they arrived, I gave them the welcome note, water and the chocolates I didn't even hear that they say thank you. His friend commented on the chocolates and he said "that must be an expensive chocolate". And I made a joke, yes that's right, it wasn't my money and I laughed. I didn't know that this joke is offending on their culture. His friend was kind of annoyed on me. How will I know if I offended them, they didn't tell me that it was a bad joke. They simply kept quiet and started to think some bad things towards me at the back of their mind. In my culture, it's just normal and others would laugh about it as well. So we rode in the train and they start to ask me why I went home so late so I told them where did I go and the drinks I ordered. They were so surprised when I told them that I had long iced tea and strawberry daiquiri. His friend commented I should have gone to bed already and I even joke at him "yes father". I didn't know that he was so angry about it until we had fight again with my husband and my husband told me this. The worst thing was when I went to the bathroom and I heard them talking about me when I was almost back to my place and they were talking that I was so weird and I mentioned that I was out and he said that they heard me that I said that I wasn't out. I was confused....because I can't really remember that I said that but they're trying to insist that I said that. I even apologize for the misunderstanding and to make things clear I said, I was out that night. And he even questioned me why I had 2 drinks. Because even himself couldn't sustain that. I was so confused because even I apologized for the misunderstanding, he still wants to believe what he heard which was not true. It seems they want to imply that I was lying when I was telling the story.

Not only that when we arrived home, I asked him what did they do last night and where did they go, he told me that they went to a bar and they drank and they played jackpot. He even shared to me that he paid a drink for a bar girl because he felt pity to her because she was sitting there beside him the whole night. And his friend also had also a girl who entertained him. When I looked at it, why he should do that to me? I mean although nothing happens, because he assured me that there was no sex involve aside from paying a bar girls drink, for him it was normal and he then told me why I don't trust him? Because it was only like that, and he told me why should I react as if he brought the bar girl at the hotel and had sex but it wasn't... I was so sad about it and I didn't know what to do. I cried and he was so angry at me...I don't know if I just over reacting.

Now that was not it, a common friend asked me why I allowed it that he'll go to that place without me. I said that was ok, but it will never happy again. He was there when I said that and he was not happy about it. Last week we had discussion again, and I asked him it seems he changed and why he was not talking to me. After that, he admitted that he has something to say. He said he was not happy when I said that I will not allow it anymore that he'll go on holidays again. Because 2 weeks prior our discussion he said that they're planning again to go back on all guys holidays next year and he will be the organizer. And I told him I'll not welcome the idea again that we go on holidays separately. And he was so angry and then reacted that his interests and well-being comes only on the second place. And that makes him sad as well. I told him that he lied to me in the first place because when they were there they didn't even see a single sailing race of their friend. Instead they were out all night drinking in a bar. I'm not happy and he's not happy as well.

another problem i have now is that, he's listening more to what his friend told him rather than me and he always share all the discussions we have to his friend instead of telling it to me and resolving it...

Now I don't know what to do...Am I over reacting? Please help me.... I really need advice badly :-(

Thanks for the help...

ps. we're actually thinking of seeing a counsellor, not sure if it can really help.

It doesn't sound like you have a really terrible marriage. It sounds more like you two don't communicate very well. If you do go to counseling, look for someone who simply teaches you how to talk to each other without getting hurt feelings, and who teaches you how to find solutions you are BOTH happy with. It sounds like you are both protecting yourselves, instead of each other.

If you read the material here, you'll see that you can eliminate Love Busters (things you do that upset your husband) and you can meet his Emotional Needs (what makes him happy, such as a clean house, or showing him admiration), and that MAY be all you need to restore the marriage.

You can also see if you can make a phone counseling session with the people who run this website, but it's about $200 for one hour. They are VERY effective, though.

Ask him to fill out the Love Buster questionnaire, and then focus on not LBing him for a couple of months. See what happens.

Independent Behavior is listed as one of the love busters on the love buster questionnaire. Sounds like there's some of that going on, perhaps from both of you.

Also sounds as though your husband is getting some of his emotional needs met through his friend, to the point that they are actually talking down about you. That would disturb me if I were you. I am not sure your husband's friend is a 'friend of the marriage.' Both of you have a responsiblity to choose your friends carefully and protect the marriage from people who work against it. How you convey that to your husband is another issue...

I would also read about POJA and spending more quality time together.

Thanks for your reply & for the insights.
I'm just confused about this Love Buster things, maybe i didnt mention that I & my husband are not of the same culture. He's from europe &im from asia. I understand that if you're living in a foreign land, usually you have to adjust with their culture, the environment & the people around you. The first time i arrive here, i had a culture shock because it was completely different from where i came from. But i didnt take it a hindrance of staying here with my husband. Even if it was so hard for me to understand i accepted the fact & that im living in a different culture now & different environment. I had many bad experiences with the people around but i tried not to take it personally although its quite upsetting sometimes. I learned their language very hard even if it was difficult for me but i told myself thats the only way i can integrate with the society but sometimes even if i can speak with them i can sometimes feel the different treatment. These feelings I shared to my husband but sometimes he dont understand it. He could not sometimes listen instead he tried to give me advices which i think i dont need & sometimes he would tell me that i have to be like that or like this. Which is sometimes i dont expect. A friend of ours commented that, it seems my husband are trying to change my culture into theirs which is not really good. And everytime i shared my feelings he became impatient. For 1 1/2 years I tried to understand it & lately I realized that I always have to give in & understand the situation. And if i start to share something he'll judge it right away. And it offended me a lot because why cant he seems to underdstand my feelings & my point of views?
In your response you mentioned that here there are lists of how to eliminate LB. I understand it I made my husband sad by not allowing him to go on vacation with his friend next year. Does that mean i'll just let it be, that my husband will flirt with bar girls & drink with them & even pays for their drink?
Maybe there are some married wives here would appreciate their opinions & ideas... Will you be happy about it?

The only girls he should be buying drinks for at a bar are his wife, his sister, and his mother. The rest of the human race is, imho, off limits. From what I'm reading, it sounds like your H lives as a single man, while you live as a married person. That is simply not sustainable, and I do think it would be wise to bring in a third party counselor.

It is okay for you to enforce your boundaries (like "I will not remain married to a man who flirts with girls at bars").

Thanks for feeling my situation. The last time we had discussion about this paying a drink of a bar girl is: he told me thati didnt trust him he said that nothing happens which means there wasno sex involve he just felt pity to the bar girl coz she was sitting beside him for the whole night. Is that ok? H

Just some comments:

If you don't already have children, I would not consider it at this point in your marriage. I realize you didn't mention it, but if you don't already have that to worry about, I suggest you hold off until your marriage situation is on better footing.

My immediate thoughts in that regard are:

1) Your husband seems immature and rigid in his thinking and quite possibly isn't prepared for such changes or responsiblity.

2) His rigidity in terms of trying to get you to change to his culture and not allowing you to maintain your own culture in some form bothers me from a parenting standpoint. Parents from different ethnic/religious backgrounds should have the freedom to educate their children about each background. That's just my opinion, of course.

Besides these things, if your husband wants to live like a single man, it is good to know this now so that you can make decisions about your own future accordingly.

I am in total agreement with canwemakeit in regards to it not being proper or marriage-strengthening behavior for your husband to buy other women drinks. It's inappropriate and 'playing with fire' as they say in America.

One idea is to try to get him in a thoughtful moment and ask him how he would feel if he had to uproot himself and live in Asia, learn the language, merge into the culture, and be encouraged to deny his culture of origin? Remind him that your Asian features, Asian culture is quite likely part of what attracted him to you in the first place and is part of who you are.

The marriage building concepts were formulated by professional counselors who happen to also be American, but quite a few of the people who come here and benefit from the program don't live in the USA. So...I believe a lot of these concepts, if not all, can be implemented into your European/Asian marriage just as well, at least to some extent. At any rate, you are here seeking help and would benefit from reading all you can here. I would start by asking you first if you think there is any chance that your husband has cheated on you and if you think there is another female who is coming between you. If there is, our advice to you would be pointedly different. Any infidelity will need to be addressed first.

They talk a lot here about 'emotional affairs' or 'EAs'. In my understanding, these are relationships between your spouse and any other source, basically, that causes him to have needs fulfilled that should be filled by you. This could include a same-sex friend, an addiction, work, or even a hobby. If it's drawing him away from the marriage in an unhealthy way, it qualifies, as far as I'm concerned.

Dr. Harley talks about 'Undivided Attention' or 'UA' time. Ideally this amounts to about 15 hours a week for a healthy marriage. It should actually amount to more if a marriage is in trouble. It sounds like a lot of time to spend together, but it's something to think about. How much one-on-one time do you and your husband actually spend together doing enjoyable things where you aren't distracted by the television or other people? If his time with his friend is cutting into those 15+ hours with you that are required to keep the marriage strong, then it's a good way to determine if he's spending too much time with his friend...or doing other things he shouldn't be doing. It basically would indicate that you two need more alone time together (doing fun things) to stay connected emotionally.

thanks Soolee, when you said that I will not consider at this point in our marriage does that mean, about going to the counsellor? We don't have kids because we decided not to have.
I can't still confirm that my husband is trying to change my culture into his culture, that was the the comment of one of a friend. Because she noticed that my husband always make remarks about me not eating so much vegetables. And here in their place, most people are eating vegetables. He usually make fun of me when we are invited which was actually not a problem for me because I know him and it's only a joke. But the people around us, especially his family, were quite surprised with his reactions, like me not eating vegetables.

Like last time when I mentioned that how would he feel if somebody would pay for my drink, he said he would be happy and that would not be a problem for him. If somebody pays for my drink. Or I pay a drink of someone.
He also mentioned last time that his quite disappointed when he knew that I'll not let him go again to phuket next year for another week with his friends. By the way his friends are one is single and the other one is divorced. He told me that if I want to do anything for myself he would be happy to support me as long as I'll be happy. But I told him my side, it would have never been a problem if he didn't lie to me, telling us that we don't have budget anymore and that he needs the vacation alone badly. And plus the fact, that he paid a bar girl's drink. At the end he actually mentioned that he needed the vacation badly, and I was surprised about it because why he didn't tell me in the first place. Why he had to tell that they have to see a sailing race event of a friend which in the first didn't happen. His friend told me as well, that he was also surprised that it didn't happen. They didn't expect it as well. But for me it turned out that they lied....
Now my husband is telling me that his interests and well - being are not important... He also told me does that mean now that if one is married then he has to be jailed?...
I'm actually letting him do what he wants like going out with friends, etc...
And it was not really a problem for me, until this phuke holiday they had.

This makes me sad also because I can't understand why my husband can't understand my feelings :-( I don't know what to do?....
I have the feeling that if we go to a counsellor, it will just worsen the situation plus the fact that the counsellor is also a native, I'm not sure if the counsellor will also understand my side?.....

ps. last time i also heard that the friend of my husband suggested that he has to send me home, if we're having problems.:-( I thought he's a good friend but with the help he's giving me to my husband it's just worsening the situation.
I don't want to fight with him anymore, but it seems now that he don't want to talk....
Please help:-(

Will he agree to phone counseling with the Harleys?

Read the basic concepts here and see if your husband read them as well. Tell him phone consultations with someone on the Harley Team/Steve Harley are available (although they are a bit expensive). You would have to schedule an appointment.

I think what is happening here is that your husband doesn't understand that it takes work to make a marriage strong and that the marriage has to come first. It needs to be a priority in his life. His relationship with you should be his most important relationship.

It sounds to me as though this friend is not a supporter of your marriage, and that's a problem because it seems as though he has some influence over your husband.

Thanks again for your words. Im not sure if he'll agree to phone counselling here. His brother told us to go to a counsellor here & even gave us the contacts. We wanted to call since last year but it didnt happen because we were always busy. And also this year, he told me that he forgot to call last week. I was thinking that if we go to a counsellor, it only shows that we are incapable of solving our own problems & that makes me sad as well. My idea is either we will have to work our marriage work or not.
What's worst was when we told his mother that I was sad & upset knowing that my husband paid a bar girl's drink, his mother's reaction was ok. She told me that, it was only a drink & nothing happened. So i should not worry about it. because these bar girls are also human & its their way of living. Before we told his mother, my husband
told me that he'll not do it anymore if it upsets me & after hearing that from his mom, that it was ok I asked him if he still do it & he said yes. He'll still buy a bar's girl drink
when he'll go on holidays with his friends next year. And i was very sad because he
insisted that it's nothing bad doing it & its he told me that its nothing sexual. I was
surprised with his idea, because it only shows that he was not consistent of what he's
trying to say :-(

i have the feeling that my husband don't want to talk about it anymore & he's just angry
of me now that i will not be happy if he goes holidays with his friend again. Although
he's not showing it but i can feel that he's angry of my idea :-( What shall i do?shall i
just let him go?
Ps : where can i find the links of the basic here? Thanks for your help.









Ps his friend who told him some suggestions is his close friend. He was not a supporter of our marriage. I get to know him as well whenever we meet him. Before he's always nice to me & even gave attention when i tell a story or something. But since my husband shared our problems to him, his friends treatment towards me changed.

Do you do your own plumbing, and electrical, too? Counselors are counselors because they have years of professional training to see what your problems are and know how to fix them. If you had it in you to fix it, you would have done so by now.

Tatiana - In the end, you cannot control what your husband does. You can tell him how you feel. You can express that it concerns you and that what concerns you should concern him. You can expose him to the basic concepts:

Basic Concepts

And see how he feels about them, if he thinks he might be interested in learning more. Your best bet is probably a phone appointment with Steve Harley, but there is a lot of free information here, a lot of good resources to start the two of you on your way to understand each other better, at the very least.

So, I would read the basic concepts above, and then I would see how he feels about making an appointment. If he says 'no', you can ask him if he'd be interested in exchanging a questionnaire that you can print off of this site. It's called the love buster questionnaire, and there is a separate one for the wife and the husband. The idea is to help each of you identify how you're hurting the marriage so that you know what behaviors you need to stop.

Love Buster Questionnaires

If you can get rid of those behaviors, you can then move onto filling out and exchanging the emotional needs questionnaires, which are designed to help you each understand what would make the other person happier in the marriage.

Emotional Needs questionnaire

There are lots of other things here that could help you as well, but like I said...I think a phone consultation with Mr. Harley would be ideal.

If you can get a handle on the concepts and successfully work through the questionnaires and put them to good use, I would also recommend that you read about POJA "Policy of Joint Agreement" and see how your husband feels about implementing this in your marriage later on.

@catperson: sorry for the misunderstanding, i didn't mean to offend anyone here. You are right, counselors are professionals and I do respect their profession. I have read some informations over the internet that couples who go to a counselor during their marriage don't work out at the end. But of course, every situations are different.
I was riding the train last week and these things just came into my mind, feeling sad why we always fight for such small things and and now we're deciding to see a counselor. I just can't imagine that we as titled the most in-loved couple is now having some difficulties and problems. I know not all marriages are perfect, otherwise life would be boring. I sometimes can't comprehend why we are having these problems and now need a third party in our marriage.
Anyway, we talked last night about seeing a counselor again which was being recommended by his brother, I told him my concerns and if I don't feel like seeing the counselor, it would also be ok for him. But at the end we decided to call counselor this weekend. And if we are not satisfied we could try the phone counseling from Dr. Harley.

@Soolee: Thanks for the links. I know I could not control what my husband does, I just wish that he would also understand how I feel.
We also have another problem which makes me very uncomfortable in our relationship. It's about him masturbating. We had a discussion also about this before. Because in our 1 year of marriage I noticed that our sex life was not that active anymore. I noticed that he was always tired and I sometimes felt that he's not that turned on. One time (on our 1 year of marriage) I asked him, if he do it alone, and he told me yes. He was doing it in the office. I was so sad and hurt. My feeling was then, he's not satisfied with our sex life. But he told me it has nothing to do with me. It's just that sometimes if he's so stressed at the office he need to release and do it. And he also told me that, being him masturbating and making love with me has no connection with each other. That time, I cried and told him that I'm not comfortable about it. So he came up with an idea, if I don't like that, he will not do it anymore. I thought it was ok for him, but I had the feeling that he was not happy suggesting it to me that, he'll not do it.

When he arrived from his holidays, we were talking about our sex life, and I asked him if he does it while he was in thailand. He told me yes only once. I reacted only once, and he then re-stated it, no twice.
I didn't react anymore, because even we'll decide that he'll not do it, I'm sure that at some point he can't avoid not to do it. I'm quite sad. But he told me that it has nothing to do with me and it has no connection with our sex life.
Before our marriage, he's always on the mood to do it. But after awhile I always found myself initiating all the time and had been rejected many times as well for the reason that he's always tired and not in the mood. It was quite difficult for me, but I tried to understand. But sometimes I really have the feeling that, I just have to wait for him if he's horny and on the mood to do it, otherwise, I also neglect my feelings and just wait again if he's on the mood. I don't know what to do anymore. So during our discussions last year, I told him that if he really wanted to do that, it's ok as long as our sex life will not suffer. Even I don't like the idea, I agreed just to make him happy. He even told me that I can also play with myself. But I told him, I am not into the idea. It's like telling me you can find other men to satisfy you if you feel horny and if I'm not. I was kind of shock but he told me that most women here are doing that.
I told him that if we do it alone, I'm afraid that it will take away the intimacy between us. But he insisted that it has nothing to do with our sex life.

Last week, he told me that since I said ok he can do it, I should not think that he's doing it every day in the office because if I notice now that we are not making love most of the time. He just want to make sure that I should not think like that. Now I don't know what to say and what to think about it. I told him what will I do, if I'm on the mood and he's not?. He answered I can play with myself or he don't know either.

I don't understand. Please help me, is this normal in marriage that couples masturbate without the knowing of the other spouse?

Thanks again:-(

I hate to say whether masturbating is right or wrong. I think for men and women who want to abstain until marriage or to avoid sexually transmitted diseases, etc., I actually see nothing wrong with it. In a marriage, it gets a bit more complicated. I believe you are right that it takes away from the intimacy between the two people. Making love is one of the best ways we can express our feelings for each other, to strengthen the marriage. The question is, why would he want to masturbate if he has a real, live woman who is ready, willing, and able?

With modern technology and the ability for people to access the internet at any whim now, some men are becoming addicted to pornography on the internet and masturbating to it to the point that it does, indeed, interfere with their 'real' sex life with real women/wives. You could start by checking the history on his computer to see what websites he's been accessing. The history can easily be deleted anyway, but you can also install a keylogger on his computer at home to see what websites he is visiting. You can also check his cell phone records for repeated numbers you don't recognize. You should also know that people with addictions often find it difficult to work on their marriage properly. The addiction, itself, becomes more important.

My general impression so far is that your husband may not have been prepared or ready for the committment of marriage. He seems to be acting out with some independent behavior and has some traces of a wayward mindset. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. This is why I think it's important to inform yourself of any activity that may be sucking the life out of your marriage.

This doesn't mean a counselor won't be able to help you, but statistically I've heard that most traditional marriage counseling has a surprisingly low success rate. I would continue to talk to him about Marriage Builders and encourage you, if not both of you, to begin reading more on the website here.

Tatjana, here's an article that speaks to your questions
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5050a_qa.html

@NewEveryDay: Thanks for the link. The advices of Dr. Harley are good. Thanks for sharing, are their any other letters regarding this subject?

@Soolee: My husband always keep on telling me that it has nothing to do with me, and I don't know what to say. Before we get married, and it was only my second visit to his place, I saw on his PC that he has a collection of porns. That time when he was browsing I asked him if he still needs that, we had a slight discussion about it, but maybe he didn't want to upset me, he deleted every thing. And after that I think he's feelings towards me also changed slightly. Maybe he resented it that I'm involving too much on his privacy. So now, he don't have any copies of it. His friend shared us some porn website and we visited that together. At first I was not comfortable to watch some scenes and I made some comment. But later on, I thought we could actually watch it together. We tried that one day to watch the site together and while watching we became both hrny, but during that time as I was watching I noticed that my husband don't want me to watch it. But I didn't say anything.
I hate to do this (checking his PC, cellphones and mails) because we had a history before. Before my I visited him, he had a dance partner who usually go to his place and they practice salsa. Actually he had 3 dance partners and of all those girls, even I haven't met them, I only feel strange on the other girl. Because when I was not yet here, they practiced until 6PM together and after that they watched movie and dinner together at his place. I thought it was just one time or two times, but it becamse constant and I feel something strange. He also shared to me that this girl likes him, but he only consider her as a friend. I asked him if something already happened to them and he admitted "yes". He told me that it was nothing it was just that they were both horny and that was it and that was only one time. I'm not sure if it was before we get to know each other or when we were together already in the relationship. He told me that he can't even remember. I cried and I didn't understand why. He explained to me that every time they have practice on a sunday afternoon it's only all about dance and nothing more. The girl has a boyfriend as well so I don't have nothing to worry about. I also don't want to stop him on his passion because dancing is his passion. But what I don't understand that time was, that after their practiced the girl would even stay until 12midnight because they still watched movie after dinner and he'll prepare for the girl. So we had discussions until I visited him on his place. He introduced me to the girl and my first impression was: I don't like her. We had so many fights before I went to see his place just because of this situation because he always told me that I have to trust him.
When I visited him, he also taught me some basic dance and I was eager to learn. But I was not that happy that time because he used to compare me to his dance partner but I still tried to learn it because I wanted to dance with him. Later we had some discussion because the girl was still calling him even she knows that I'm visiting my husband. Since I was only visiting for 4 weeks, so they were not able to practice every week that time. My husband sent her an sms, and I later found it out, I was so curious that I copied the sms because I couldn't understand their language that time. When i went home, we decided that I'll enroll to a course to learn their language. Luckily my teacher is a native and I asked his help to translate the message. He translated it and the message was something like this: "hello (name of the girl) we are quite doing fine but now we have quite a discussion.... i miss our dance practice every sunday..."... i can't remember the whole words but the last message which was like: I miss our dance practice every sunday made me sad because why he still invited me to his place and he still have other things in mind. I wanted to end our relationship that time because I don't want to live with a dishonest person. He called me that time and I cried, I told him about the sms and even forwarded it back to him. He was shocked how I got that sms. I told him it doesn't matter and he was quite angry at me because I invaded his privacy. We talked about it and he asked sorry about that. We were able to solve it at the end and we were back together again. On my second visit to him, that girl kept on calling him and I was so mad because it seems that the girl would still like to steal some of his time from me. We fought, because I know I couldn't imagine that we were still seeing a girl whom my husband had sex before and she'll even teach me some dance steps. He couldn't understand why i'm so sad and angry. The girl even suggested that she will bring her bf. Which made me more sad because in the first place I was keep on asking him, why she doesn't spent her sundays with her bf? And my husband explained to me that the bf doesn't like to dance and he has another interests. I was so mad when I heard that she'll bring her bf when I arrived here. We fought so hard and I don't know what happened but my husband told me later on, that he already spoke to that girl that they will break their communication because I was always sad and we always had discussions. Until now, they don't communicate anymore. But my husband later on admitted that and he was sorry and he understand my feelings.

This was our history. He always kept on telling me to trust him and every time I started to ask anything he always complained that I'm controlling him and I don't trust him. Which is also unfair on my part because I don't usually think of these things like doubting him, or controlling him. Now checking his things again like his Pc, email and phone, is quite a delicate thing to do because of our history.

I'm not sure too, if he's still browsing porn. Which I think he's not because we're sharing most of our files together although we have 2 separated computers. But what destructs me now is his secret communication with his friend whom he went for holidays together. I know they've been writing most of the time at work, because last time I was able to glance shortly at his office mail and I saw the name of his friend. I don't want that we will make the same mistake again. I know my husband doesn't have much friends except this one, and I'm afraid that I might also not like the idea of him always communicating to him mostly about what's happening to us. I don't want to tell him what to do and don't want to experience the same situation again.

Thanks for the links as well and the questionnaires. My question is, after we answer the questions what are the next steps?

Thanks again for all your kind words.

Tatjana...

I'm sitting here shaking my head because I can understand that you may be too close to the situation to see it objectively.

Wouldn't you want to know the truth? Isn't the truth better than living in denial? Don't let him know what you're doing for now. Keep quiet about it. Just because he says to trust him, doesn't mean you have to. He has to earn your trust, and if his history and recent independent behaviors are any indication, perhaps he doesn't deserve it. Now, that could be American thinking. Could be in your culture if a husband tells you to trust him, you should. I don't subscribe to that mindset at all. His history is important and can't be ignored. It's part of who he is and tells a lot about his values and his integrity.

Tatjana -

Any sort of hiding of information, what he's doing, etc. etc. is not a good indication. In a healthy marriage, spouses know all about each other, what they're doing, etc. There is no hiding because there is no need. Why would your husband want to keep parts of his life private from the one person he has committed his life to?

thanks Soolee:-( It's very hurting what my husband is doing to me. he kept on saying that he loves me but his actions is not showing it anymore.last time i heard him talking to his friend and i think his friend is suggesting him to leave me or send me home:-( i wanted to talk to him about this but i still don't know how to start and when. our last discussion was quite too much even he himself said that as well and i want to have a quiet weekend as much as possible, i have the feeling that we're both trying to avoid not to have such discussions again.tomorrow we said that we'll call the coach a psychotherapist.
i would like to ask some advice how can i talk to him about him talking secretly to his friend that he will not offend.
any suggestions will be appreciated...
thanks:-(

I would go with a concerned attitude:

"I'm concerned about a situation that seems to be affecting our marriage. My husband has a close male friend, who seems to be taking my place as my husband's closest confidante, and I feel it is damaging to our marriage. I believe he is coercing my husband into either sending me home or leaving me. I don't believe he's a friend to our marriage. He is encouraging my husband to resume a single lifestyle."

Tatjana...it's important that you voice your fears. All the better to do that with an intermediary present if you feel your husband will get upset.

How you deal with it afterwards when it's just the two of you is tell him again it's from a position of concern that you voiced your fears and that you feel very hurt that he is not defending or protecting you and the marriage like he should.

You can tell him that you want to work on strengthening the marriage, but feel like you are swimming upstream as long as the friend is trying to pull him away from the marriage. You may tell him that either the friend become a supporter of the marriage or he may need to reconsider the friendship if he wants to effectively strengthen the marriage.

Emotional affairs come in all sizes and shapes. They don't just have to happen with two heterosexual people of opposite sex. It can be a platonic friendship like this that erodes and weakens the marriage as well.

thanks Soolee for your advice and the words.
Last week we had quite an argument again because it sounded that my husband was trying to defend his friend than me and it seems he's not respecting my feelings anymore. For him as long as he's happy to spend time with his friend it's ok
What I can accept is whenever he will talk every thing we had discussed and what he don't like about our situation and he's not talking it to me:-( it's kind of hurtful.

Anyway hope the counselling will help us see where is really the problem why we are like this?
Thanks

hi again, the other day, I wanted to talk and discuss with my husband. And every time I asked him something, he tends to defend himself and he even told me that I'm getting paranoid. I can't talk to him anymore and don't know what to do? :-(
I even heard him telling his friend that he lost interest on both of us. But what I don't undertand is, he is showing me the other way around. He still keep on telling me that he loves me, and he cares for me. But when I asked him, about what he said to his friend, he denied it. And he told me that I'm getting paranoid. I even heard their conversation that he asked his friend what he's going to do with me? When I asked him about this he said he'll never ask that because he's already old to know what to do. But I clearly heard it:-( Why is he defending his friend?... then he told me that I have a problem in trusting him. He told me that why is it that I'm not trusting him?...
if you start to ask is it already something to do with trust?
And whenever his friend call him and if I'm sometimes beside him, he would say first that I'm beside him. For me, it sounded that please don't talk about our topic because my wife is here...
I really don't know what to do now? It seeems he's trying to do some things which leave bad impression so that I'll realize it that he don't love me anymore. What I don't understand he'll tell his friend like this and if he's talking to me he'll say it on the other way around. I can't understand. Do all men do this if they are not interested in a relationship?
Thanks

Wow, Tatjana, that's a really tough spot there. How about keeping him busy doing fun things the two of you? Planning fun trips together, so he's already taken his vacation when the friend wants to go away with him again? Have you read the articles on Thoughtful REquests, Respectful Persuasion, and Negotiation in the Basic Concepts section.

Tatjana - I'm not sure what to say. If it were me, I'd be doing some investigating. Knowing this place, I'd go over to the SAA (Surviving an affair) board and just pick their brains for ideas on how to dig deeper just to make sure you know what you're up against.

Maybe stop the relationship talk for now because I think it's making him want to hide his conversations more and to be more guarded. And don't tell him anything that you might find out for a while.

Maybe it's nothing major going on, but the fact that he's being secretive is concerning.

I'm guessing that he is acting this way because he doesn't like being in the hot seat. This dates back to being a kid. If we don't like what people are asking us - if that subject makes us look bad - we try to avoid it however we can. It sounds stupid, but try telling him that you want to discuss what isn't working WITHOUT making it a judgment about each other; it just IS.

You could try setting up one night a week to discuss relationship stuff, and leave it off the rest of the week, so that you can build up 'good' time. It sounds like you're asking him about what he's doing 'wrong'...all the time. No one wants to be around someone who constantly shows him how bad he is.

that's what some of my friends also think. They think he's like a kid who's lost now because he doesn't know what to do. He wants the presence of his friend and also at the same time he's kind of scared to let me go. If that's what he's friend is telling him. Because last time I heard him asking his friend, what is he going to do with me? I was surprised when I heard it when he called over the phone. And he just replied, sh**, sh** and he somehow laugh.
I asked him, why he asked it he denied it and he said he'll never do that because he's old enough to do what he wants to do and not his friend. And he started to throw back all these stuffs against me. He said why I didn't tell it to him right away if that bothers me and it seems my behavior is kind of paranoid because I listened. I told him that I only heard the first words you said and then I didn't listen anymore. And he told me that I'm paranoid. In 2 weeks we will go to a coach and I'm not sure if I have to tell this to the coach about what happened. It could be the coach would ask me to prove it and I can't.
@NewEveryDay: I would love to organize fun things for both of us so that we can spend time together. But it seems he's trying to avoid it. And like last time, he also mentioned it to his friend that he don't have interest to both of us. Every time I organize something for both of us, it looks like I'm forcing him to do things he doesn't like and the result is not always good. I'm sad and tired about what's happening to both of us. Just right after his holidays, he changed alot. It seems that, he was badly influenced by this friend of him :-( and it's hurting me so bad. He exchanged our 3 years of marriage just by a week of holidays and by going to the bar the whole week and could be flirting around with girls.
Where can I find the articles you mentioned? Thanks

@Soolee: I am not talking anymore since we had discussion 2 weeks ago about what he said. And he denied it:-( It makes me so sad:-( because then I know he was lying. I thought if he did lie on that was only little question, that explained all his actions before his holidays why he was acting so weird, that means he did lie whole throughout. It's very painful to know that the one you love is the one who will hurt you. I'm trying to talk to him directly in the eyes but he usually insert some uninteresting topics like Math, our computers, his work at the office and movies. It seems he doesn't want to mention anything about us, where is our relationship going or what is happening to us.
Like last week when I told him that I'm quite sad about us, he said then quite angrily, why I always make things so complicated and always worry. For him, it seems ok and me I'm always looking for something to discuss and cry about. And he don't know anymore how to meet all those expectations. I just cried again, because it seems he didn't get the point. He didn't even listen to how I feel or even try to listen and ask why I'm acting like this. The moment I start to explain, it's always me who's making the fault :-( Now I feel that I'm always the cause of our problems which is I don't understand. I actually don't say too much and just let him do whatever he wants.
What's hurtful is, if he doesn't have any interest to both of us, why is he being unfair? I mean, if he don't like to work on our marriage why is he doing this to me? If he's seeing his friend he's talking all our problems that I'm like this, like that and strange and weird. But when he talks to me, he say he love me, he care for me and I'm his love of his life:-(
I don't understand... why?...

@catperson: I would love to do this every week, but it seems my husband doesn't have any energy anymore for this:-( I'm so sad, I know I love him very much and I trusted him, but he broke my trust:-( I don't know what to say anymore and what to think. I'm just so sad :-(

Hi again the other day we had a big fight again. I don't know it just started from small things & then we ended up dead end.

We decided to have a tour in the mountain two days ago. But the night before our trip, he went out with his friend again and had dinner. A friend of mine invited me for a drink, so I went out as well.
That night he and his friend drank a lot, which is usually not a problem for me. Before if he goes out with this friend, I'm always happy to hear that they're having a fun time. When he went home he was drank and it was quite late though I went home later than him.
The following day, when we woke up the first thing that I heard from him was he had headache. I was quite concerned because we will be driving almost 45 minutes and I'm not sure what would be his condition afterwards. Usually if he has headache you can't do anything with him because he has headache. So I just kept quiet and didn't mind at all. I gave him water to drink and hopefully our trip would be wonderful even if he was not feeling well. He told me that maybe it was the alcohol that they drank the other night. I still kept quiet.
When we arrived at the station where we had to go to the mountain, I noticed that we were not actually talking much. While waiting for the next cable car going to the top of the mountain, we agreed to have a little walk around the station. So we walked and we saw a hotel which was being renovated. The hotel has a fence, and there was a sign said : Not allowed to enter something like that...But he tried to open it...I just looked what he was doing and asked him lately why are you trying to open that it has a sign which says not allowed to enter... he was so happy doing it and then he replied, just nothing. Sometimes its good to do something which are not allowed. I was shocked about his reply because I never know him like that, he's usually the person who's always careful of everything & now he's trying to break a rule. In my mind, I was thinking what does he mean? It sounded like he did something bad and he was happy to relay it to me that it's good to do something bad. His facial expression was kind of strange and he was kind of weird. I felt like crying coz it seems it confirmed all my hypothesis what they did when they were away. He saw me that I had tears, I didn't want to show it to him but with all my experiences since then, it's just like dead end for me and sometimes I have the feeling that his pointing back fingers on me. Nothing seems to be right. If I react like this, he'll judge it differently. I wanted to tell him how I feel but I know he'll never understand it and I think he'll get mad why the h*** will I think like that to him. So when we were at the top of the mountain, we walked and just continue walking quietly until we met our couple friends. Actually they're already old coz they are the parents of one of his friends. The guy commented that I look like not ok and he wanted to borrow me coz he found me cute. And they started to laugh even the wife. I just smiled. And my husband replied, no, no i will still keep her for a little while. After that I asked him what does it mean, he said that it was just a joke. I told him it doesn't sound that it was a joke. I felt sad and I can't control my feelings. We tried to clear things up and he said he understand if I'll react like that because maybe I didn't understand their humor. We were quite ok and we went to have a bite, we wanted to have their specialty but we didn't know that the restaurant where we were, is also serving that. So he told me that there's actually a new restaurant opening that day and if I like we can go. I was happy about it. I said we can only eat something small and then later we can go to this restaurant. But when I said that, I can see on his face that he doesn't like to go. So I didn't comment because he was quiet afterwards. When we arrived home, the first time he told me was that, if it's ok for me if we're going to stay at home because he had headache. I said ok, but I was quite of sad because I wanted to go out with him having a drink. When we checked the opening of the restaurant, he mixed up the dates. So instead that day, the opening will be a week after. And he made a reservation for next week. I said ok. And he kept on saying that he has headache and then he started to prepare our food in the kitchen. I made a remark that his friend is a bad influence to him. And he told me that I shouldn't start any discussion again. I was kind of sad. I fixed myself and told him that I wanted to have a walk clearing my mind while him preparing for our dinner. I don't know if I over reacted but it sounds that if he's out with his friend even if its already late, he can manage it and even drink a lot. I know this is not good to compare, but I feel that my husband is not enjoying our times together, that he's making a lot of excuses like he's having a headache or tired and he needs some sleep.
But anyway, after I asked him, he told me that he's kind of worried about me because why I usually go for a walk if I have something to say, why I don't discuss it to him. I told him I would love to discuss it with you but the problem is he'll never understand and we'll start to fight and we start to shout each other. And he then told me, of course, it will not be all goody-goody times all the time. When he was telling this he's already shouting and kind of mad. I know we will start to discuss again. He asked me to tell him what's my problem and he'll listen. I trusted what he said so I didn't go for a walk instead I pour out all the hurtaches I had that day to him. Until such time we started to shout each other. When I told him, that I was kind of sad that he has headache and I don't understand why he has to drink a lot knowing that we will be out for the whole day. So how can I enjoy my time with him if I know that he's not feeling well? He then told me that I'm selfish because it's always what I want to be followed and it seems that I don't want him to enjoy with his friend. But that was not my point...
He seems to blame me that even he has headache we were still able to go out to the mountain. I told him I didn't decide it alone. We decided it together because I thought he also wanted to go. But it seems, he only did that so that at the end he has something to throw back to me, that we did this because that's what I wanted which was not actually the case. I actually give him another options like going for a swim if we could not make it to the mountain. But it seems he really wanted to go there as well. And I was surprised that in the end, it seems like I forced him to go to this place because that's what I want and he has headache...
I don't know...then we started to talk the things happened before they went for holidays and that he was dishonest to me and why is he defending his friend and stuffs like that....

He said that he can't feel that he's being trusted in this relationship. I told him that I trusted him but he broke it :-(
His acting that his treating his friend better than me :-( and even defend his friend....

I tried to explain him my side and he was so angry and I can't talk with him anymore until he said that he will call it a time out because we're kind of dead-end. Not only that he's also trying to mix things up right now, telling me that I didn't understand it before how they told me why they are going on holidays. Now it's my fault that I didn't understand it...

I cried again alone without showing it to him.... It's very hurtful what my husband is doing to me... after that he acted normally again as if we didn't have a fight.
He started to talk about computers and stuff like that... which was for me so odd. Because it seems that he don't want to work things out, and now we are just waiting for our appointment with the coach. I hope he can really help us to understand where is the problem really :-(

Did I over reacted? Am I being selfish?

please tell me :-(

Tatjana:

I'm not sure. What I do think is that you need to get to the bottom of his faithfulness, and you aren't going to get a straight answer by just asking him or talking about it because people who might not be faithful are good actors.

I'm not saying he's cheating, but some of his behaviors are not that of a married man.

Good luck with this, and let us know what the coach says.

Tatjana,

Did you read about Love Busters in that link that Sooly gave you? As I read your thread, I'm seeing you harming yourself and your husband using Disrespectful Judgments (DJs).

And I believe you do not want to do harm. You seem to be a very dedicated, loving, focused young woman who wants to benefit her spouse and the marriage, and enjoy the benefits of marriage.

Marriage is hard. Just as your H said about his experience of how invasive it is...didn't really want to give up his privacy for intimacy, which essentially is what Marriage truly is...because when we make our vows, get married, we are saying in advance, that we promise to act from love, even when we don't really like our spouses at the moment.

And that's true. We are promising to come to know all of our spouses...all parts of themselves, over time, great, good, neutral and awful parts...to take all of them; and to also show them all our parts, too. Very tough to go from knowing the image of your boyfriend to really knowing the human being who is your spouse.

Everyone works through, I believe, what you are doing now. You cannot make the road smooth, without conflict--potholes or hills. Conflict aides intimacy...depending on your choices on how to act during conflict.

Assuming your H will never understand your feelings...is harming your marriage. Assumptions do that. He assumed a lot of stuff about you before you married and in the first couple of years...and living together, intimately, breaks those assumptions...and yes, we can feel pretty lost about where we are, even who we are and who we married.

What I read is that your H does love you and acts from love in ways you do not consider loving. Some are hard to see for you, which is reasonable, those actions don't count as much to you as they do to him. And vice versa.

I don't believe either of you really are listening to the other. He fears your sadness and you fear his anger. Can you think about how sadness to him can feel like you rejecting him, just as his anger can feel like rejection to you?

Your feelings are yours. They are what they are. They are valid and real. Does not make them fact, they cannot prove anything...respect them as is. His feelings are his. They are valid and real...and really his.

Did you hear that he sees you as complicated and that he worries about your feelings? And then you tell him he can never understand your feelings...how much that would hurt him. He very much wants to control your feelings...make you happy, make you never sad, never angry, afraid or in pain. That's like a child's wishfulness, though. Not real in our adult marriages.

Still, good to know. Neither can you make him happy, never sad, angry, rebellious, polite, respectful, never angry, afraid or in pain. And you try to do that a lot, I think, to manage/control his emotions...saying "yes" to make him happy, stop talking to make him calm or agreeable again...even when saying "yes" goes contrary to your instinct, your gut telling you (like phucket) this is a different agreement...you're being manipulated...and you say "yes" anyway.

You betrayed yourself and felt very betrayed. Your feelings come from you, your beliefs, they follow your actions. And in doing so, you lie to your H. I think he knows you lie to him, just as you know he lies to you. Marriage is working toward radical honesty, no lies...not where we begin in marriage, in my experience.

So, you clear up where you do harm, disrespect and lie. You evaluate what only you control, your actions...and don't judge yourself good or bad...just strive to see clearly what your tears really mean, what they are about, and if your goal is to understand your H or to get him to stop hurting you.

Because when we are afraid, when we hurt, have strong feelings of frustration and misunderstanding, we do act like the children we were, instead of the adults we are. Great to be aware of what triggers us, aware when we react when we really want to act, instead...and know when we're acting out our feelings (like crying, yelling, defining others), or informing our partner of our feelings.

Please read about the Four Rules of Marriage...find it on this website, order the books, and know that what you're going through isn't over-reacting (it's reacting that is blocking intimacy with H, in part), isn't bad or wrong...just not what you want. Work on what you control...in a week, you'll have hopefully, someone to hear both of you, when you won't really listen to each other, who can teach each of you to really listen, striving first to understand, then to be understood...and bring you back to where you began...doing things you fell in love with other doing...making old patterns new again, with awareness...

And not trying to change each other, which is impossible and causes conflicts.

Sooly said (I think) that what you're really asking of your H is that he ask his friend to be a friend of your marriage. To put The Marriage first, not H...because otherwise, his friend's influence harms the marriage, even if it seemingly benefits H.

And ask the counselor for what you want most...to deal with honesty (and that means you knowing your own stuff, knowing what actions you took that resulted in your feelings...like telling yourself that your H is mocking you, when he is not, and knowing the difference...which is tough, Tatjana, in my life, too) and sharing your feelings as YOURS...sharing how you experience H as your own experience...not proving anything.

Key part of meeting ENs (the link to the questionnaire) is knowing you choose to act from love and stop reacting from hurt.

And keep your feelings talks at first to just once a week, also as you were advised, because your H hears HE is at fault, the problem, just as you are his statements as making you at fault, all wrong.

Each of you is having the same experience...you cannot control how he hears you, what he hears in your words...you can only control how you hear his words...and be really honest with what you hear. If you're listening to not feel at fault...then you have an agenda...and it will twist what he's really saying. If you are listening to really know H...then you won't twist it, 'k?

You both continue to discover each other day by day. And you're right, it's important what H chose to do to the marriage, taking his holiday separate from you, the money, the lies, the place, the manipulation. You're not crazy. You can't really know what he did there until you both get to a place of personal honesty.

Hold yourself to being honest and catching your own lies. You'll cry a lot less. You dwell in a place inside full of rejection, neglect and distrust...it's hard right now for you. Won't be hard forever...and it may feel like you'll always feel this way. You won't. You'll change your choices and feel differently. I promise.

You can do this.

LA

@LovingAnyway: thanks for your advices. Yes i did read about the love busters.

I just would like to clarify something...about when my husband said that I'm making things complicated. I don't know what made him say that, but he's giving me the feeling that every time, I will say something he'll start to criticize it and sometimes i have the feeling that he wants me to listen what he thinks or on his point of view. And if I started to explain my side because I also wanted to be hear because sometimes I feel that things are not right, he started to be aggressive and will start to speak in a very loud tone of voice. Sometimes these are only little things and I usually don't react because I expect that it's just normal but if its for all the time at the end I explode and I don't want to talk. If he wants me to talk I start but then he's still like angry and it made me feel insecure to share to him my feelings. because the moment I'll say that's often his reactions.

I hope that he will also do something our marriage. Because what I don't understand is, he kept on saying that he loves me but then behind my back he's talking bad things about me to his friend :-(

The other day I saw some notes on his PC telling his friend again that we had a fight and he wants to tell his friend again about what happened to us :-( But whenever he talks to me, he's now sweet and let me believe that things are fine and that he loves me. So how should one react on this? He expects me to trust him but what his actions are sometimes inappropriate? And he's the one speaking all the time about "trust" and that he don't feel trusted in this relationship?....

How would I react?

But thanks for the links here, will try to read the other parts. Btw where can I find the one you suggested rules of marriage.

Thanks again

He may not be able to see what you see in terms of the friend. This may be something good to bring up with the counselor you're going to see, in a concerned manner.

If your husband has an issue with you, he should be discussing it with you and not the friend. By discussing it with his friend, he is eliminating a need to talk about it and then the problem never gets solved with the one person it should be solved with.

As far as the discussions with him, it's important that each of you be heard. That's going to mean maintaining eye contact and not interrupting, allowing each other to finish. I would hear him through. When it appears he is finished, ask him if he's finished and if he is, tell him what your thoughts are. Set a good example of how you want to be heard.

If you avoid using the terms "you never" or "you always" it will put him less on the defensive. If you use terms like "I feel" or "It feels like" it will be hard for him to discredit because these are your feelings, not accusations.

When your husband tells you something, you can validate and mirror, which is done by repeating what he said in your own words, to make sure you understood it like he meant it. If you understand it wrong, this gives him an opportunity to correct it or reword it so that you will understand what he meant.

Perhaps if you begin to listen to him without interruption and show interest and not opposition, he will respond in kind. Be open to what he is saying. Drop the defenses. Consider your answers carefully. Wait until he is done.

Listening is a skill. It doesn't come easy for everyone, but practice makes perfect. God gave you one mouth and two ears, so that you will listen twice as much as you will speak. ((Tatjana)) Hang in there.

I am not saying your husband is right, but learning to listen (not necessarily obey) is a primary skill in any relationship. If you want respect and consideration, you have to show respect and consideration.

thanks Soolee. We were already with our coach last week. And it's quite a pity that we only had 1 hour. So we were not able to discuss everything. The meeting with our coach went fine. He asked about our background and we answered him back with our information like how we met, how long are we married, where did we meet, etc...
And the coach told us to talk freely anything. So I started the conversation. And the coach was only listening and sometimes clarify things with us. During the conversation, the coach asked my husband about disappointment and he said, it sounded like my husband is quite disappointed about me because it seems he has expectations which are not met. And somehow, he said it in a direct way. What he said he do to much for me which is also his fault and he admitted it and the more he's doing more for me, and he feels that he's not getting what he's doing for me. But we already talked about that, I once one time noticed that he's doing a lot for me and I told him he shouldn't. I appreciate his sweet acts but sometimes it's just too much for me although I wanted to do what we had plan together like going to school here etc.... And he himself noticed that and also said that he loves doing it for me, like for example researching books for me over the internet and later on he'll get more than 20 books and he'll give it to me. and he'll be surprised that I couldn't read those because before that, he just gave me some other books... and lately I find myself that I'm catching up with his pace and not with my pace. I realized that I have to adapt quickly, although sometimes there are things that I don't understand. And later on, when we go back to that particular topic, I have to ask him again because I forgot...and that made him impatient. Because he said he had the feeling that he was talking to a wall long time ago... and now I have to ask again...

It seems we were trying to recall everything how and why we were on the place of the coach... I told the coach that one reason is: that I have the feeling that we are not understanding with each other anymore. He became impatient and aggressive and harsh with his words towards to me, and I became sensitive, insecure, and always cry and lost, and trying to grasp why is he behaving like that...

He also said that the reason why is he talking to his friend was, because he can't talk to me anymore when I shut down myself and when I start not talking to him. Yes there are instances like this, but this was not the only reason. Because last year, even though we discussed it already that every things fine and which I assumed that it's already ok with him although I felt something strange because he's acting kind of weird, that was also the time when I heard him talking to his friend, "what is he going to do with me?" when he called his friend. I felt so hurt about it, because I thought every thing was ok,and we agreed to discussed things first with us and if he has issue with me he has to talked it with me. But when I heard it, they were talking about me for 1 hr, because I saw the log of times how long he called. Although I heard the first words he said, when called his friend, he tried to reason out that maybe I heard it in the middle of their conversation & I didn't understand what they were talking before that. I told him it was not in the middle of the conversation, it was the first words he asked when the friend answered his call.... I was so sad, because it seems he doesn't care how I feel,. and he lied about it...

Now he decided to go back again to the coach next week and he asked me if its ok for me. I also said yes. And the coach even suggested if I want to have a female coach he can recommend us. I said I'm fine if we have a male coach, at least I can also gather some points of view...

I have a question, do you think a coach can detect if one person is lying and not true with himself?

thanks

Hi again

last time I found out, that the friend of my husband is a not really a good friend. He's pushing my husband to lie to me.
I've read some of their messages where his friend told him to ask me if he can go for guys weekend but he shouldn't tell me that they're going back to the same place where they went last year.

I'm so angry at the moment that my H agreed to his friend's idea. I'm just waiting now for the time he'll ask me about it.
Next week we'll be going back to the coach again and I'm not sure if I have to bring this out or not :-(

My heart is aching that my H is looking his friend as a good example. He also mentioned on our first visit with the coach that if I'll trust him, our relationship shouldn't have any problems. He always points out that he felt mistrusted by me. He said that he never felt trusted in this relationship. I did,,,but after what happened, it seems that it's very difficult to get that 100% trust again. How can I trust him back if I can prove now that they really did lie, like for example he told me that the reason that they were not able to go to that sailing race anymore was, because it started 6am. And last time his friend also told me that he was already on this event. But last time when we had discussions with my H, he told me that it was the first time of his friend to this sailing race event. I checked on the internet about the program of this event, and actually the race started by 9am and not 6am. And in the rules I've read the racer can bring people on the boat as long as he has to register it to the committee.

When they arrived from their holidays, his friend looked so surprised that they were not able to see the sailing race and it didn't work out the way he expected. Now it really seems to me that they plan their holidays not because of the sailing race but because of club-hopping and flirting with the prostitutes their :-(

Please help...I'm so angry now. Because this all confirms to all my questions why?...

Need some words from you guys. Please help

Tatjana, I encourage you to hit "Notify" at the bottom of your post and ask the mods to move your thread to "Surviving An Affair" I think you'll get more relevant advice there from folks who have been where you've been. I know it is hard to open your eyes to what you're seeing now, but at least now you're not wondering why things didn't make sense. Now you have the information that you need to make informed choices.

hi again, I was asked by someone to hit Notify and change the thread to surviving an affair. I hope I'll gather more insights here.

Last week before we went to the coach, I and my husband had a very emotional talk. I thought every thing seems to be ok but still I can feel that there is something which is not right. Since last year, I have been seeing some messages he wrote to his male friend. And sometimes it's hurtful because some of them are hurtful and I've been hearing some of their conversations, which my husband denied when I asked him one time. We had our first meeting with the coach 3 weeks ago and last week was our second meeting.
The last time I read some of his messages that they are planning to go back to the same place again in summer if it works. His friend found some cheap flights and even told my husband to ask me if he can go for a guys-weekend but he shouldn't tell me where. So that they can go again together. My husband reaction was, he found it a cool idea.

My heart broke down when I know this, but my husband is keeping it from me. I also know that they are communicating through emails. But he don't usually say it to me. But last week, I don't know what happen, I happened to pass by on his workplace and had a glance on his PC unintentionally, unlucky him because he kept his PC open with his email maximize. I saw the name of his friend on his email but I didn't react. After I saw it, my husband hide the email of his friend and he opened another window to cover it. I can't really take it. At first I wanted to keep it again and just let it be. But this doesn't help anymore. I asked him right away, why he needs to keep the email of his friend if they are not hiding or planning or something. He was kind of nervous, because we knew that we will have a discussion again. He just told me at first that he was checking another mail. But after a while, he asked sorry and told me that he was afraid that we have to discuss it again about his friend and his holidays plans. He told me if I want we can show it to the coach. He printed the mail, but he was kind of angry because he said he's not also reading my emails and why I always have to invade his kind of privacy. He asked sorry and I said I don't know what to say anymore because I'm so angry and this kind of behaviour has been on-going right after his holidays.

That night we had a talk and I asked him what's going on. I told him if he's not happy anymore he can say so. He also told me that last year, he was already on the verge of divorcing me. Only little percent left and he was about to do that. I was so hurt when I heard that because, that answers all my questions why he was acting that strange and weird to me. I know we had so many discussions but I was left hanging with all of those questions. And what I didn't understand is, why he didn't tell it to me right away. Instead he went for his friend and even boasting most of the time that their holidays were very great and he never felt that way before. I was kind of lost... He told me that I was always busy, and was unreasonable. He also didn't imagine, that the reason that I might busy is because I was having a hard time to look for job on his country where language is very difficult. Reasonable?... maybe because I got a lot of rejections from all of my applications, because I know my husband is also quite stress that I don't have a job yet. I think he didn't understand how I also feel on his country where every thing is so new to me. I'm also struggling to cope everything on his country. And it seems he didn't see it. We had a very heavy discussions. And for me it was an answer why we're not connected anymore and things are always a confusion to me.

Now I don't know what to do? Our coach told us, as much as possible we have to avoid this for the meantime to discuss just the two of us because it will not bring any good to us. After that talk that night, I was so sad and very hurt and wanted not to see anymore and wanted to run away. Because I know now the reasons why he was so strange and his feelings are so cold to me. Even he tried to make me happy the feelings are not real anymore, it's because he wanted to divorce me last year. And sometimes I can feel that he doesn't love me anymore even though he kept on telling me.

Now I'm so lost. The coach mentioned first we could take a time-out but he will not recommend it because he sees if we will take a time out there is no possibility that we will go back together. I actually will go for a time out if the coach recommended it because I was also tired with all of these confusions and figuring things out what's wrong. My husband kept on telling me that I have to say what I feel and what I think so that I'll not kept all of those. But I noticed he wants me to say it then he will judge me and if he doesn't find it good, he will keep it for himself and he will tell it to his friend.

I'm so confused now and don't know what to do?... I would appreciate your advices...

Hi again

I'm wondering why I can't edit my post anymore. Whom shall I contact about this?

Please help me I need some advice.

Thanks.

I think there is a time limit.