Marriage Builders
Posted By: patriot45 Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 02:55 PM
I recently (2 weeks ago) found out my wife was having an affair. My wife travels a lot for her job and she met him on a business trip. They have been together (sexually) for about 2 months now. She says she does not know what to do, she is torn, but does not want to stop seeing him. She does not want a divorce and I'm not sure if I can forgive her. We have two young kids, 7 and 9, so I wanted to try to work things out if possible. She has removed her wedding rings and has been civil, but at times very cold and calus. I am trying hard not to lose my cool for the sake of the kids, but it's hard. The problem for me is I left work three years ago because of her job to care for the kids. Now I am looking to go back to work, but she seems unwilling to adjust her schedule. We live in Texas and have no extended family for support. If I was on firmer financial ground and sure about future employment, I don't know that I would be here. I can't believe I am having to live with her knowing she is continuing with him. My concern is for the kids, but right now her judgement seems clouded and she is viewing things through rose colored glasses. Should I push the issue and file for D or do I wait and see what happens? I know I would win custody of the kids, so I also have the option of moving back to MA (don't really want to) where I have family support. I'm sure at some point she is going to view this as a big mistake, but it may already be to late. Any thoughts........Thanks
Posted By: Still_Crazy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:00 PM
First of all welcome and sorry you find yourself here.

Have you exposed the A to anyone? Exposure is the key to ending the A.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:01 PM
It sounds like you are looking at things accurately. She will regret it. file for divorce. There has to be some consequence in hopes of her waking up. Either she will wake up or go through with it. You have to think of the kids. They should not be raised in the family of a cheating spouse. You deserve better. JMHO
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:16 PM
Have you read about exposure on this site? Can you expose this A to people who are important to her? What do you know about the OM? Is he married? Can you give us a little more info on these things?

My immediate thought is to get to an attorney to discuss your options, maritally, financially and otherwise. Financially she holds all the cards, since she's the breadwinner, and that puts you at a bit of a disadvantage right now. That can also work in your favor, though. See an attorney.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I recently (2 weeks ago) found out my wife was having an affair. My wife travels a lot for her job and she met him on a business trip. They have been together (sexually) for about 2 months now. She says she does not know what to do, she is torn, but does not want to stop seeing him. She does not want a divorce and I'm not sure if I can forgive her. We have two young kids, 7 and 9, so I wanted to try to work things out if possible. She has removed her wedding rings and has been civil, but at times very cold and calus. I am trying hard not to lose my cool for the sake of the kids, but it's hard. The problem for me is I left work three years ago because of her job to care for the kids. Now I am looking to go back to work, but she seems unwilling to adjust her schedule. We live in Texas and have no extended family for support. If I was on firmer financial ground and sure about future employment, I don't know that I would be here. I can't believe I am having to live with her knowing she is continuing with him. My concern is for the kids, but right now her judgement seems clouded and she is viewing things through rose colored glasses. Should I push the issue and file for D or do I wait and see what happens? I know I would win custody of the kids, so I also have the option of moving back to MA (don't really want to) where I have family support. I'm sure at some point she is going to view this as a big mistake, but it may already be to late. Any thoughts........Thanks

My friend, try and end it. EXPOSE HER TO EVERYONE! Right now, including the kids. Tell them mommy has a boyfriend. BLOW IT UP W/OUT WARNING. If she loses it, fine. Also, you are in Texas which would require temp spousal support from her while you are divorcing, so you may not want to get a job just yet. wink DON"T LEAVE YOUR HOUSE NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS. DUDE
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
It sounds like you are looking at things accurately. She will regret it. file for divorce. There has to be some consequence in hopes of her waking up. Either she will wake up or go through with it. You have to think of the kids. They should not be raised in the family of a cheating spouse. You deserve better. JMHO

No! Don't file for divorce right now. That's reacting. Dr. Harley has a better plan, starting with exposure. Filing for divorce should NEVER be used as a tactic to force a WS to wake up. You should only file IF you want a divorce, are done with the marriage, or need to protect your assets and/or get a custody order in place.

Start with exposure. Read up on it first and learn how to do it effectively. It is a POWERFUL tool to kill the affair. Only after the affair is dead can you begin to work on recovery of your marriage.

Read up on Plan A and Plan B, exposure, LoveBusters, etc. ORDER THE BOOK SURVIVING AN AFFAIR TODAY. It's the bible around here.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 03:55 PM
Definitely what PM said above. As the BS, you will always have the option to D, but your M IS recoverable.

What you will read here is that your W is not herself now. She is an alien. She is intoxicated from the high of the A. I know from experience, because I was once a WH. So your first goal is to break her from the addiction. And yes, she will go through withdrawal like a drug addict.

A quick note: do not tell her about this site (yet). Also, don't tell her when you are about to do something (like expose). You just do it.

You are in the right place. Good luck.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I recently (2 weeks ago) found out my wife was having an affair. My wife travels a lot for her job and she met him on a business trip. They have been together (sexually) for about 2 months now.

Is your WW still continuing to see the OM and have sex with him?


Originally Posted by patriot45
She does not want a divorce and I'm not sure if I can forgive her. We have two young kids, 7 and 9, so I wanted to try to work things out if possible.

Unfortunately, right now she's holding a lot of the cards as you are currently unemployed. Trying to work things out with someone holding most of the cards usually ends up with an arrangement that's in their favour, not yours.


Originally Posted by patriot45
Now I am looking to go back to work, but she seems unwilling to adjust her schedule.

See note above. Translation: she wants to continue holding those cards.


Originally Posted by patriot45
Should I push the issue and file for D or do I wait and see what happens? I know I would win custody of the kids, so I also have the option of moving back to MA (don't really want to) where I have family support.

Waiting is not a plan.

If you wish to recover your M, you first need to break up the A. Exposure may work here, but I have my doubts, considering the circumstances - and bear in mind that the stats for recovered Ms where the WS is the W are not very encouraging. I think you need to get your hands on more cards; to basically put yourself in a position that will have a greater influence on the outcome. My suggestion would be to talk to a lawyer about how you can protect yourself and your kids from your WW's activities while you concentrate on finding a job and regaining some of those cards that are now held by your WW.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 04:06 PM
Here's a great thread that has a ton of information in it for newbies to read. FOR NEWLY BETRAYED SPOUSES by longhorn


1. Educate yourself (quickly)
2. Stay calm
3. DON'T Move out
4. Expose
5. Plan A
6. Plan D (meaning you fight for your marriage while also preparing and protecting yourself just in case this goes to divorce...some of this is done contemporaneously with the other fights but on the backside unknown to your wife. You may THINK you've got the upper hand as far as custody goes but you must be careful not to blow that advantage. I hope you can save your marriage but you can't control your WW and you have to be ready for the possibility this won't end well by being a calm and calculated soldier in the war for your family)

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 04:15 PM
Again...

Read that threat "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" by Longhorn on the Notable Posts board.


Tell us about OM. Is he married? Do he live with someone? Does he have a girlfriend?

You need to find out everything about him. If you can access his Facebook or myspace account try to print off a copy of all of his friends and contacts. If you've cracked into your wife's emails...sometimes OM's forward jokes along to EVERYONE. Print that off with the email addresses of his most important friends.

ManinMotion is right about it being more difficult to get a WW out of an entrenched affair but that doesn't mean we can help you to get them to end it. It's only been a few months so this ISN'T some long term affair. It just means we've got to find a way to get OM to end it. Exposure on his side of the fence is very important...his personal relationships, his acquantances, his kids, his JOB are all fair game. He'll dump your wife when it becomes too much trouble for him but this can't wait the sooner you get your exposure plan set the better.

Please post what you intend to do FIRST as many a BS has come here, gotten a few posts and run off half-hazzardly trying to effect the advice only to realize they weren't doing it right and made things WORSE.

Educate and get advice BEFORE you run into battle...

WE have all been there so we know what you are going through.

Mr. Wondering

Posted By: turtlehead Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 06:58 PM
About Exposure...

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 07:17 PM
I hope he's okay.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/12/10 09:15 PM
patriot45,

""but does not want to stop seeing him. She does not want a divorce""
think think naughty faint

We call this cake eating or fence sitting. Having the best of both emotional needs sources.

You must find out as much as you can about the OM, other man, so you can expose to all concerned. Is the OM part of her work? A vendor? Is he married? (hope so)

It sounds like he must be local if they have been together for 2 months. Unless she meets him on the plane as they travel around, like the "UP IN THE AIR" movie with George Cloony.

""her judgement seems clouded and she is viewing things through rose colored glasses.""

This is the addiction that is adultry and the OM. And it is an addiction. At MB we call it the FOG and things she says like "I don't want a D but I don't want to stop seeing him" is what we call FOGBABBLE.

If I were you, I would read all there is on PLAN A. Plan A is being the best husband, companion, friend, lover (?), father, etc. you can be. Start doing a hard plan A.

Do nothing drastic right now. Snoop and find out all you can about the low life. How did you discover the A. Emails? Phone records?

When you have the pertinent info, you then EXPOSE to all that matter to your W. Her work, Family, and all that matter to the OM, like his wife, if that is the case.

You bring the A out into the light of day and the sordidness of the A takes over and the exitement and intrigue of the A withers on the vine.

Dude, this should be a dialogue with everyone replying to you, let us know we are not just banging our fingers to the nub typing these missives to you.

IMHO

kirk
Posted By: coachswife Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 07:35 PM
Do not leave your home-Do not leave your home- did I mention not to leave your home???
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:01 PM
The other man is not married (divorced) They met on a business trip and stayed in touch. The only person who knows about this my sister.... Her side of the family knows nothing. If I told her parents, I KNOW it would be all over for us. Her parents and sister would never forgive her. I just accepted a new position which I start next week, so that should help. I just don't know how you come back from this. There is no spark and the way we feel right now, it's hard to reignite. I know there is differing views on this, but right now my thought is to file for divorce and see what happens. At least it's moving in a direction.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:05 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
The other man is not married (divorced) They met on a business trip and stayed in touch. The only person who knows about this my sister.... Her side of the family knows nothing. If I told her parents, I KNOW it would be all over for us. Her parents and sister would never forgive her. I just accepted a new position which I start next week, so that should help. I just don't know how you come back from this. There is no spark and the way we feel right now, it's hard to reignite. I know there is differing views on this, but right now my thought is to file for divorce and see what happens. At least it's moving in a direction.

YOu can go plan D, but I would still expose this to EVERYONE!!! She will spin it and blame the divorce on you! DUDE
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:08 PM
D is your choice, and, many times the best choice. You know yourself better than anyone and this may be something that is a dealbreaker for you. It is for the majority of people.
I agree with Dude. Don't be left holding the bag. Tell the kids and anyone else you feel like. These folks should not skate.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:09 PM
He is not married and they are able to meet because he is an independent software contractor. She does a lot of business in the same areas he works, so they arrange to meet. As far as plan A, how do you do that when you know what she is doing. How do you get past that? There is no love making right now, she gives the occational hug and kiss, but there is nothing else there. She has also started spending money like crazy again and she is becoming less involved with the kids. Part of me is sad about OUR situation, then I think about how selfish she is being and I want to throw her out. What to do???
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:13 PM
I am truly sorry that you find yourself here, Patriot but it is absolutely the best place for you to be in your circumstances. It is a marriage builder site not a divorce site so I would say that the first thing that you need to do is decide if you want to recover your M. If you think that it is worth a try then I would advise you to read everything on the site and keep posting. Follow the spot on advice that the pros here give you. In the end, you may still end up with a divorce but at least, you can look your two small children in the eyes and tell them that you did everything that you possibly could to save your family.

God's Blessings,

Say

Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:14 PM
I think you should put up every obstacle to her affair that you can. Exppose, so her secrecy is destroyed. Try to sequester your family funds, if possible. Don't even contemplate making love, as she is, potentially, a walking incubator for STDs.
Call her work and notify them, in the event she is using company resources or time to conduct her affair.

Tell your kids, asap, in an age appropriate manner that "mommy has a boyfriend."
She'll be furious. That is good.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:23 PM
Who told you that he is divorced, your wife who is committing adultery and lying to you on a daily basis? Find out all that you can about this guy. If you D, he may very well be spending half the time with your children.

Read the Carrot and Stick of plan A. It seems counterintuitive but it is a proven plan that has worked in many cases. It is a plan to improve yourself while dealing with the devastation that adultery brings into your life.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:39 PM
I'm not sure exposure (right now) is the way to go. She is very protective of hime right now and she would be furious if I contacted him or others. She saw me looking at houses on-line last night and she got angry at me asking why I was doing that......duhhh! I am having trouble figuring out what she wants and I'm not sure how long I can let this go? I have told her I wanted a couple weeks to decide what to do and I understood how this happened, but it was going to have to end sooner than later. The other thing is I think she is going to see him next week on a trip. That's part of the problem, she travels so much that it's easy to get together.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:45 PM
Well, it is true, just like WSs follow a script, so do the BSs. If I had a dime for every newly minted BS that offered the WS's anger as a reason for not exposing, I'd be rich.

Making her furious is a good thing. It is your goal. Let her feel frustration and humiliation.

Sadly, these folks do not come around until they have felt consequences. Thye step all over passive BSs and, ultimately, grow to despise the Bs for perceived weakness.

Show her that she cannot do this to you without a price. Your kids need you to destroy this affair, whether the marriage continues or not. You want this guy around your kids?
Posted By: throughthefog Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 09:51 PM
PT45

I have not been exactly where you are, but I have done a lot of reading on these forums.

Do what the vets say. It's like a football coach talking to his team after a game. "Do you have anything left in you?" if so, then "why the hell didn't you leave it all on the field?".

Don't leave anything left undone,.....git 'er dun!!!!
Posted By: chrisner Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:08 PM
Quote
I'm not sure exposure (right now) is the way to go. She is very protective of hime right now and she would be furious if I contacted him or others.



She is in an active sexual adultery with another man. And you are afraid of her anger?

TryingEverything is in a very similar situation with a cake eating WW and posted this a few days ago.

"Exposure definitely has her mad, but I really don't care. She was threatening divorce before exposure. She's threatening divorce now. Like that really scares me... Oh no! My lying cheating, abusive, won't-have-sex-with-me wife wants to leave me."

I love that line. Every BH coming hear needs to read it over and over.


Your marriage will not survive an unopposed adultery. No chance.

Expose to her parents and siblings now.

She needs consequences to her choices and actions.

What is the exact relationship your WW has with the OM? Does she authorize purchases with his company?

Call his companies HR and report him.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:10 PM
I am starting a new job next week, so that will help. I'm not sure how long I'm suppose to wait for this to end.It's only been two weeks since I found out. Last week she was on a trip and she told me he was going to be there. She said she had to see him to find out where it was going. She said "when I come back I will have an absolute answer" I knew she wouldn't. She called me several times crying, saying how much she missed and loved me etc. Now that she is home, things are cordgial, but tense. No more talk of love or missing. She does not want to get close, that seems reserved for him. I understand plan A, but sometimes she seems receptive and other times I think any sign of care is percieved as being weak. Hard to tell what's right. One thing for sure, now that I'm going back to work and she knows she will have to be home more she is a little concerned. Should we trying going out together? She is defenitly defensive right now. Example, this morning she shut our bathroom door and asked for privacy when she got out of the shower. Nudity has never been an issue with us. She desbribes the bedrooms now as yours and mine.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I am starting a new job next week, so that will help. I'm not sure how long I'm suppose to wait for this to end.It's only been two weeks since I found out. Last week she was on a trip and she told me he was going to be there. She said she had to see him to find out where it was going. She said "when I come back I will have an absolute answer" I knew she wouldn't. She called me several times crying, saying how much she missed and loved me etc. Now that she is home, things are cordgial, but tense. No more talk of love or missing. She does not want to get close, that seems reserved for him. I understand plan A, but sometimes she seems receptive and other times I think any sign of care is percieved as being weak. Hard to tell what's right. One thing for sure, now that I'm going back to work and she knows she will have to be home more she is a little concerned. Should we trying going out together? She is defenitly defensive right now. Example, this morning she shut our bathroom door and asked for privacy when she got out of the shower. Nudity has never been an issue with us. She desbribes the bedrooms now as yours and mine.

SHE HAS LOST HER F'N MIND! EXPOSE THIS NOW AND IT WILL END!!! DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:17 PM
There is no conection through work. She is a DM for her company and he is an independent contractor. I here what everyone is saying about exposure, but I don'tnow how that helps? If she has everyone ganging up on her, dosen't that just force her to him? Not trying to be dumb here, just trying to figure things out. Should this be the first course of action?
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:19 PM
Expose this affair to everyone you know.

Yes she will be furious, but that fury is from you hurting her affair. You will not be hurting her, you will be hurting the affair.

Look, there are 4 plans.

Plan-A
Plan-B
Plan-D
and Plan-Do nothing/hope/Be a doormat

You are doing the last, and it never works.

Stop!

Go to plan-A and EXPOSE to everyone, all at once, without any warning. That is the best shot you have to save your marriage in the long run. It will also protect you from her spin on a divorce if thats what happens.

DO IT TODAY!!





Oh, and do not under any circumstance move out of your house. It will not help save your marriage and can devastate you in a divorce.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Should this be the first course of action?

Yes.
Posted By: chrisner Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:21 PM
Quote
dosen't that just force her to him?

No, I think her meeting up with him in hotels pushes her to him.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:22 PM
So I expose her, she becomes furious, then what? Do you just ignore it and say, now the next step is up to you, we work on this or it's over?
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Should this be the first course of action?
YES!!

Tell her parents
Boss
Siblings
Friends
OM's parents
Your family
Your Friends
Your pastor

Anyone who can put pressure on the affair

Keep it short and business like

Something along the lines of
"WW is having an affair with OM. If their is anything you can do to help me save my marriage to WW it would be appreciated"
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:24 PM
good point!!
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
So I expose her, she becomes furious, then what?
Plan-A
or Plan-B, depending on what she does.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm not sure exposure (right now) is the way to go.

The first thing you need to decide is: do I want to try to save my marriage or not?

If you haven't decided that, then go find a quiet place to think and figure it out. If you have decided on divorce, do it the best way you see fit. It's your marriage, it's your divorce. Good luck.

Now, if you decide you want to save your marriage, I'm going to say "Welcome to the club!" Five months ago, I too decided I was going to save my marriage from my wife's affair. It can be done, and it is being done.

STEP 1: Be the best man you can be. Buy "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers. Read it cover-to-cover. Implement your "Plan A" right now: make sure every contact with your wife is fun and pleasurable. Dodge any difficult questions or arguments. Do your best to keep a smile on your face and be the man she married.

STEP 2: EXPOSE. Yep, you know she's having an affair. You know who the other person is. You know his name. His marital status. This is a WAR against the AFFAIR. Collect every name of every person that is important to your marriage, important to the other man, important to your wife, important to you, and CALL THEM ALL ON THE SAME DAY.

You resist. I understand that. I was scared silly of my wife's anger, too. I thought it was going to drive her into her lover's arms. I WAS WRONG. YOU ARE TOO. Exposure to everybody that matters to your wife is THE CURE TO HER INFIDELITY. It takes a few weeks, typically, for this cure to seep through. What happens is that your spouse suddenly realizes what an embarrassment having an affair is, and even if nobody is judging her, she thinks they are.

Don't talk about it with her first. Just do it. Collect all those phone numbers. Call them and read from a script:

"Hi, Friend. This is Betrayed Spouse. How are you? I'm doing OK, but I have a problem I thought you could help me with. Wayward Spouse is having an affair with Other Person. I want to save our marriage from this affair, but I'm not sure how to proceed. You know her well; I could really use some advice."

Modify it based on audience, but you get the idea. I wrote it down so that I said what I intended to say. Yes, SHE IS GOING TO BE INSANELY FURIOUS.

But you know what? My FWW and I talked about exposure today, because a friend of mine is having another affair. She agreed it was a HUGE HUGE HUGE Love-Buster. She also agreed that the realization of the DAMAGE she was doing to OM's FAMILY motivated her to stop. She wasn't just ruining our life. She was ruining his, too.

That compassion for him helped motivate her to write a no-contact letter. She didn't want to be a homewrecker, or for him to live with the stigma of having started a marriage (to FWW)
as an affair and EVERYONE WOULD KNOW. That's part of what you're destroying with exposure. You are destroying ANY CHANCE the wayward couple has of making a new life together using any of their old friends.

You're burning the bridges to those friendships and family relationships. She can no longer cross them unless she's willing to reconcile with you, first. And, ADDED BONUS to you, you gain VALUABLE SUPPORT from all those people feeling sympathy for the betrayed spouse.

Did you know that most people don't think a whole lot? Humans, on the whole, tend to believe what they hear FIRST 85% of the time. Doesn't matter how logical or sound an opposing argument is, 17 out of 20 people will go with whatever story they heard first.

You need to GET THE TRUTH OUT there. RALLY A SUPPORT SYSTEM.

GROW A PAIR.

We seriously know what we're talking about. Exposure usually marks the first step toward recovery. There are very few exceptions:

Originally Posted by Dr. Willard Harley
Whenever a betrayed spouse tells me that they�ve just discovered their spouse�s affair, my advice is almost always the same: Let others know about it. Tell your children, family, friends, clergy, and especially the lover�s spouse, if they have one. And this is even to be done during what I call plan A (making an effort to make as many Love Bank deposits, and as few withdrawals as possible). The problem some people have with that strategy is that it conflicts with the goal of plan A because it�s likely to cause massive Love Bank withdrawals. An unfaithful spouse almost always considers such exposure to be a worse act of betrayal than their affair itself. But the alternative, helping the unfaithful spouse to keep the affair a secret, is enabling the addiction, prolonging the agony. In the long run, making the affair public knowledge without any forewarnings, threats, or bartering (which by themselves can create massive withdrawals) actually reduces the number of Love Bank withdrawals made by the betrayed spouse. It�s my opinion that the advantages of immediate exposure usually far outweigh the disadvantages.

But are there exceptions to my recommendation of the immediate exposure of an affair? Absolutely! Let me give you a few examples of situations where I would not suggest immediately exposing an affair...

A physically violent unfaithful spouse...
Uncertainty regarding the affair [if they are in an affair or not]...
Economic considerations...

Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it�s true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself.

Some feel that an affair should not be exposed to children. Granted, I would not tell a 3-year old about an affair, simply because a child that young cannot possibly understand what it means. But I would not hesitate to reveal an affair to a child 7 years or older. Exposure to those between those ages should be a matter of discretion.

What about exposure of an affair that took place years earlier and is now ended but recently revealed? I feel that the children, close relatives, close friends, and the lover�s spouse should be informed. Granted, it�s embarrassing to admit an affair, but publicly admitting failure is usually the first step toward redemption.

As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable.

If exposure of an affair threatens the marriage, should the risk be taken?

I regard infidelity as a violation of the most basic condition of marriage. In most wedding vows, �forsaking all others,� is the only real promise that�s made. When you marry, the overriding condition that is mutually accepted is that you won�t have an affair. When that condition is broken, the marriage is threatened at its very core. That�s why I believe that spouses who have recovered after an affair should make new vows to each other, in effect reestablishing their marriage.

So when a betrayed spouse asks for my advice, I usually take the position that infidelity is the greatest betrayal of all. After an affair, trust -- an essential ingredient in marriage -- is dashed. If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.

If you don't believe anything else we say, believe us when we say that EXPOSURE is the first step toward recovery. If she threatens to divorce you, she was going to do that anyway. If she says you ruined everything, you DID: you RUINED EVERYTHING good about the AFFAIR. If she says you have no chance now, she's a wayward and lying to you again: you've just given your marriage the only chance it has to survive.

When she's so furious, remove yourself from the situation. Don't defend yourself verbally except to say "I will do everything I can to save our marriage". Repeat that message consistently.

There are only two Love-Busterish things Dr. Harley recommends betrayed spouses do: snoop and expose. Remove every other Love Buster from your life, and learn to be an expert meeting her Emotional Needs.

See you on the other side, Brother.
Posted By: chrisner Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:28 PM
Quote
So I expose her, she becomes furious, then what? Do you just ignore it and say, now the next step is up to you, we work on this or it's over?

No there won't be time for that. She will be too busy shrieking like a smoldering vampiress out in the mid-day sun.

She will tell you it is over and divorce blah blah and she was just thissssssssssssss close to recomitting to the marriage before you expose but now you ruined everything blah blah blah.

You calmly tell her you did it to save the marriage and get out of her way.




"Oh no! My lying cheating, abusive, won't-have-sex-with-me wife wants to leave me."

I love this!

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:28 PM
Barnboy ROCKS !
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:29 PM
patriot,

What you're being advised to do is counter-intuitive, but it is the truth.

Read these forums and see how common your WW is and how common your fear as a BH is. There is nothing unusual to your situation.

Exposure brings the affair to light and puts pressure on it to be ended.

She will hate you for doing it. She will be angry as he77. We're warning you about it.

But the reason you have to expose is the same as a having a crack pipe or a needle taken away from an addict. You are brining the nasty deed to light.

Read the thread by JCB. He is on his way to recovery. There's tons of others on here who successfully recovered after exposing the affair.

Exposure puts pressure on the affair to end.

She will be enraged by the exposure.

What I don't understand is why you're willing to file for D, which is your right and will end your marriage, but you're afraid of exposing the affair. Why?

Exposure is a baby step compared to divorce.

Plan A doesn't mean being lovey dovey. It means making yourself attractive as a spouse while taking the actions necessary (exposing the affair).

SH has advised that a Plan A be followed for as long as a BS can stand it, but a guide mentioned on here is 2 weeks for a WW and 6 monts for a WH (others can correct me on this if I'm wrong).

I think a WW is more difficult to wake up than a WH. Doing this as a man requires that you man up, grow a pair, and act like you want your wife back and to have this man out of her life.

That means doing what you're afraid to do, which means upsetting her. THAT is the only hope you have.
Posted By: chrisner Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:32 PM
Yeah, what BarnBoy said.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/13/10 10:37 PM
Patriot45 You can expose to everyone including her work maybe her company uses his services, or you can have a bottle of wine sent to her room at the hotel for her and him to share!
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 12:13 AM
The fact is patriot. Your marriage can survive her anger over exposure. It cannot survive her having an on going affair with the OM. Expose immediately. Its even OK to be pissed when you expose. Tell her mom and her sister that you love her but she is having sex (not making love) with another man and is destroying your family. Let them bring pressure to bear on the situation. It she gets mad (which she will) tell her that you weren't going to wait for her to invent a bunch of lies about you to them.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 12:49 PM
Thanks to all for the advise. She is leaving town on Sunday for 4-5 days. Would you advise I do it before she leaves, or while she's gone? My thought was as soon as she leaves, I contact these people. Should I contact him?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 01:03 PM
My plan is when she leaves on Sunday for a business trip, contact all of these people (including him?) and tell them what's happening. I also read that telling the kids is advised......really? They are 7 and 9, is that really the best thing to do? Why?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 01:19 PM
You just tell the kids that married women do not have boyfriends and go on dates with these BF's. Mom has a boyfriend and is dating OM, if you know the name tell them.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 01:58 PM
Patriot, I reread your posts. It is still unclear how they met. You said that they met during a business trip, and he is an independent contractor. I understand he is not an employee of the same firm, but does his company do business in any way with your W's company? Did she meet him in a business meeting?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 02:15 PM
No, they met in the hotel restaurant/bar. According to her they struck up a "friendship". They began to text and talk and they would get together for dinner and such when she was in town. What I was told is they met in September, but didn't sleep together until Mid November.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
No, they met in the hotel restaurant/bar. According to her they struck up a "friendship". They began to text and talk and they would get together for dinner and such when she was in town. What I was told is they met in September, but didn't sleep together until Mid November.

Expose. The timing is good. Don't wait for them to develop a deeper relationship.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 02:31 PM
She's admitted to an affair. There's nothing to deny now or for her to spin as you being nuts in some way.

Tell everyone who can influence her.

She will go nuts. Re-read the things she will say. Remember that the reaction is predictable.

Once she has it, you will come back here and be full of doubt that you did the right thing and think that it's all over for sure and that you ruined everything.

Read JCB's thread if you don't believe us, which is appropriately entitled "Confronted WW.....total disaster".

You'll be pleased with how it ends.

Her reaction and yours are predictable. We have seen the situation before. Have a little faith and do what needs to be done. Any chance of restoring your marriage depends on your willingness to man up.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 02:33 PM
What helpthelostdads said.

Get in the saddle, patriot.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 02:59 PM
He is not married (divorced) and has a 14 year old son. I discover the affair through phone records. She has a large phone bill from texting and I noticed a repeat number that had no reson to be there and did a reverse phone search.We live in Austin, he lives in Dallas. She travels to Midland and OK City a lot for work and he is an independent contactor, so they usually meet in those locations. She was in New Orleans last week and I know he was with her. Besides the marrige, I have concerns about the kids and her spending. She is spending without concern right now. She has been void in the kids life, so this needs to be resolved sooner, rather than later.Okay, I expose the affair to everyone and deal with the response. I read that if this doesn't work, you go to plan A and try and be a good husband and wait for her to change, or at a point you break off contact. HOW can you continue to live with someone if you know they are with another person? Not sure how that works.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She is leaving town on Sunday for 4-5 days. Would you advise I do it before she leaves, or while she's gone?
I'm not sure which would be better, both have some pro's and con's. But defiantly do it as soon as she leaves at the latest.

Understand, she is going to go bonkers, just like any addict whose had there drug taken away/threatened. IT WILL PASS!

Do not listen to her threats and lies. It is easy to tell if a wayward is lying, if there mouth is moving they are lying.

One other thing.
For your marriage to recover the business trips without you will have to end. This is not an option, she will either have to get another job, do her job without overnight trips, or take you with her. Don't harp on this to hard yet, kill the affair first, but it will have to happen.







Oh, and do not under any circumstance move out of your home. If WW wants space, she leaves! You and the kids stay.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:01 PM
Exposure is PART of Plan A
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:07 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
He is not married (divorced)
How do you know this?


Originally Posted by patriot45
HOW can you continue to live with someone if you know they are with another person? Not sure how that works.
Thats up to you to figure out. No one can tell you how to do that.

You don't have to, you can always kick her to the curb and file for divorce today. You have every right to do so and full support of everyone here if you choose that path. Recovery or Divorce, it's up to you.

You need to read Dr. Harleys book "Surviving an Affair" ASAP!
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:23 PM
I've seen his Facebook page, so I know he's not married.
Posted By: Still_Crazy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:28 PM
He could still be married and his wife does not even know he has a facebook account.

I would check into him further.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:29 PM
So you have access to his FB page? So by viewing his "friends," you actually have access to the names of all his friends and family members who potentially could be influential...
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:29 PM
In a perfect world, that would work, but I am starting a new job and her line of work, weather it's with this company or another will require travel. If she's going to screw around, then there is little I can do to stop it. Obviously, this cannot continue and even if we di try and fix it, it's not something we will revisit again. I could check her phone, e-mail, gps her car... but if she wants to have an affair, then it's going to happen. Will I trust her......of course not. Will I ask and snoop....absolutly. But there is only so much you can do, the rest is just hope.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I've seen his Facebook page, so I know he's not married.
Or you have seen his other facebook page that says he is divorced that he hides from his wife.

This is very common.

Expose to his (supposedly) X-Wife.
Either way, she may be able to put pressure on the affair.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
In a perfect world, that would work,
This is not an option.

In the least perfect world there could ever be, this would still be necessary for long tearm recovery.

If she can't do her job without lots of travel, she will have to get another job, or this will happen again.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
In a perfect world, that would work, but I am starting a new job and her line of work, weather it's with this company or another will require travel. If she's going to screw around, then there is little I can do to stop it. Obviously, this cannot continue and even if we di try and fix it, it's not something we will revisit again. I could check her phone, e-mail, gps her car... but if she wants to have an affair, then it's going to happen. Will I trust her......of course not. Will I ask and snoop....absolutly. But there is only so much you can do, the rest is just hope.

You're laying down for your W and her shenanigans. If the nature of her current employment requires her to travel, then she needs to GET OUT of that field of work and get a job where she can stay local. It can be done. It's done ALL THE TIME.

Yes, you can track her like a bloodhound. The job of a BS is often that, if they wish to regain trust and get their M back on track. You'd be dizzy at all of the things I did (and still occasionally do) to verify that my H is where he says he is, doing what he says he's doing. It's a necessary burden for a BS. Do you want to do the work of regain trust in your WW? That's a question only you can answer.

Yes, when it's all said and done, all any of us can have is hope. That doesn't mean you hand the reins over to Chance. It means you grip the reins hard and take control, in order to have the best possible outcome that hope can give you.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 05:15 PM
Yes, but they have to answer my freind request.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Yes, but they have to answer my freind request.

Send them a facebook message in the body of the friend request, telling your story.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 09:07 PM
Have a quick thought to put out there while at work. As you know Texas does not acknowledge a legal separation - either you are married or not married in this state.

A friend of mine received D papers from his WW here in Dallas. The process will take some time so there were Temp Orders issued by the Judge that stipulated he had to be removed from the home (she moved the OM right in) and has to pay $3200 per mo in maintenance while he only brings home $4K per month. He has to live on $800 per month until the D is final whereby he will only be responsible for CS.

What I have been told if one of the partners is a stay at home parent, Judges have greater latitude on Temp Orders and have been known to be brutal.

IDK - not a lawyer but I am sure princessmeggy can tell some horror stories.

On another note - it must be awful to know that your ww is going out of town to meet with her POSOM while you are holding the fort. I feel for ya. You need to take care of yourself and the kiddos.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 10:42 PM
Well I decided to try the exposure this weekend while she is gone. I have already thought about that (Custody) and regardless of what is said I am going to put in for temporary custody of the kids. This may maker her madder, but you're right, I have to take care of the kids first. All this and I start a new job in a week....yeaaaa!
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well I decided to try the exposure this weekend while she is gone. I have already thought about that (Custody) and regardless of what is said I am going to put in for temporary custody of the kids. This may maker her madder, but you're right, I have to take care of the kids first. All this and I start a new job in a week....yeaaaa!

Are you sure you want to take this job? It could limit what support you receive from her. I'd be VERY careful. Contact a family lawyer here in the great state of TEXAS..DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 11:12 PM
I know, but I have to think of the kids. She has pretty much spent everything we had and I cannot sit back and wait for this to all work out. I think it will be good for my sanity also. The best part is she's reluctent to cut down her travel (wonder why) claiming it's her job blah blah blah. I asked her for an option and she had none. Said she was still going to travel, that we would have to get extra day care. We'll see how this goes, but one thing for sure is she's about to get a rude wake-up call.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I know, but I have to think of the kids. She has pretty much spent everything we had and I cannot sit back and wait for this to all work out. I think it will be good for my sanity also. The best part is she's reluctent to cut down her travel (wonder why) claiming it's her job blah blah blah. I asked her for an option and she had none. Said she was still going to travel, that we would have to get extra day care. We'll see how this goes, but one thing for sure is she's about to get a rude wake-up call.

Yeah, BUT YOU ARE NOT A LAWYER!! CONTACT ONE BEFORE TAKING THE JOB. Stay at home parents get EXTRA BENNIES. You can give her the wakeup call by filing for Divorce as the STAY AT HOME PARENT! This might be best for the kids anyways? DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 11:20 PM
If you're SAHD and she supports the family, if you get a legal separation, she will HAVE to support you AND the kids. Legally.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/14/10 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
If you're SAHD and she supports the family, if you get a legal separation, she will HAVE to support you AND the kids. Legally.

EXACTLY...And that is the best for the kiddos?!! RIGHT, not more DAYCARE??! WTF!
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
If you're SAHD and she supports the family, if you get a legal separation, she will HAVE to support you AND the kids. Legally.

Except there is no legal separation in TX. However from the time of filing to final decree if it goes all the way - he could possibly get more $$ by getting temp orders. Something to think and keep it it in his hip pocket.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:09 AM
There is no legal seperation in Texas. If I don't work, then we would have to sell the house and I'm not there yet. I also need to work for my sanity. I have a good group of neighbors who are somewhat aware of the situation and are willing to help. There is NO good answer, but if we D, then I need to work. With the economy the way it is, when you have a good job offer it's hard to say no. I have spoken to an attorney and she feels this would only help my cause. She said there is very little chance she could gain custody and even if she did want to fight me, she would not want her dirty laundry aired for all to see....especially her company.
Posted By: IHadEnough Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:12 AM
Like the others said please see a lawyer before you do anything. Also your wife does not believe there is any consequences to her treatment of you so why should she stop? She has said she does not want to divorce buy she still wants to boff him. Well I am sorry but how would she feel about you boffing someone on the side? Don't be a doormat and don't be afraid of her.

Expose... It will change everything. So what if she gets mad what is she going to do that hurts more than what she has been doing?

I can tell you from my own experience with my ex-wife that she did not want a divorce but she was not sorry for what she had done when I first confronted her. So I told everyone and I filed for divorce and had her served. Well let�s just say that her life was no longer one of fun and excitement. She got mad at first but then she got scared when she saw how I was not going to take it anymore.

So please don�t be afraid to take action. Whatever she does will hurt less than having her have sex with another man. When I looked at my case I knew nothing else she did could hurt me more. We did divorce but she did not want it. I can tell you that it changed everything.

Please see a lawyer and know your rights. Best of luck to you.


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:17 AM
I am going to expose it, but the advise that most people have given is wait to file a divorce. Believe me, I'm at the end and if it doesn't stop, it's over. She also know there is no guarantee that if she ends it that we will be okay. So I understand what your saying and I'm glad it worked out for you, I still have a small window that I'm willing to explore.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I am going to expose it, but the advise that most people have given is wait to file a divorce. Believe me, I'm at the end and if it doesn't stop, it's over. She also know there is no guarantee that if she ends it that we will be okay. So I understand what your saying and I'm glad it worked out for you, I still have a small window that I'm willing to explore.

AND YOUR SANITY??! No way I could sit there while my wife is bangn another dude. I would have to go to plan D. Now maybe if she stopped it, then I might halt the divorce, but I doubt it...DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:56 AM
Dude: You're right, there is no way it can continue. The small window is it stops or I move on.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by rwinger
Except there is no legal separation in TX. However from the time of filing to final decree if it goes all the way - he could possibly get more $$ by getting temp orders. Something to think and keep it it in his hip pocket.
Let's make sure we have our legalisms straight, OK?

I'd check into Texas law.

My WW tried to run the old, "We're legally separated so I can see whoever I want" ploy on me. It's fiction.

We have a Separation and Property Settlement Agreement. That's a fact.

The Commonwealth of Virginia only recognizes three states of matrimony:
  • Married, living together.
  • Married, living separately.
  • Divorced.
Until and unless status #3 is reached, the two parties are legally married, and the state does not recognize anything called "legally separated."

Maybe it's splitting hairs, considering prosecuting adultery is rarely done these days, but the legal aspect still stands.

I'd check out Texas law, just to be sure.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 02:59 AM
You're right, I can ask for temporary spousal support until the divorce is fianalized. After that, I'm on my own. Like I said though, with this economy and 7 people applying for every job opening and my being out of full time work for 3+ years..... it's hard to pass up a good offer.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 03:04 AM
I do understand.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 05:41 AM
Barnboy does rock.

In Texas there is no 'buying out' of your spouse when it comes to your house? I know in my state I have had several friends who divorced and bought out the other spouse. I know its not a great time to refi, but at least you keep the house and the kids. They want the kids to live in the same house, but again, that's in my state, here in Maryland.


Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 09:41 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
You're right, I can ask for temporary spousal support until the divorce is fianalized. After that, I'm on my own. Like I said though, with this economy and 7 people applying for every job opening and my being out of full time work for 3+ years..... it's hard to pass up a good offer.



Agree with ya there....good that you are already getting advice from an atty.

Use the plans incl exposure although it seems your WW's A is one of those in your face affairs. Even if the marriage ultimately fails, you want to break this A up - you dont want the OM involved in the family.

Exposure will bring some light to their little dark secret life. Have seen exposure on this and other forums where the OM establishes NC and runs back to repair the damage in his marriage.

Her response from exposure can range from being flippant/doesnt care-marriage was over anyway and she is in love. This is not a good indicator of the future. This sense of entitlement is difficult to get past.

Or she will be a vicious and vile animal. Anyway, anger will indicate you have burst the fantasy bubble.

Level of anger will also be an indicator how effective was the exposure. It can be a real game changer and an emotional power shift/ And not to forget -she will hate you for doing this which will make Plan A a tough road for a while.

My wife went into a month long dispair and never left the bedroom or house. And I never got to expose - unknown to me at the time - my sons (22 and 16 yr old) beat me to it and paid a visit to the OM. It took some time to get things back to normal but eventually this ordeal is past and we moved forward. Will be celebrating 30 yrs this year.

Have to admire how you seem; through your writing, to keep your head level and straight in light of her lack of respect she has shown you. Keep your emotions under wraps, having a plan and executing it well are key components to breaking this up and perhaps saving your marriage - good luck.

hope this rambling has some sense to it.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 12:26 PM
In Texas, you can deed the house to one or the other, or you can sell it. That's one of the other problems here, we bought in 06 at peak time and we have no equity, so we would walk away with nothing.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:43 PM
rwinger

"my sons (22 and 16 yr old) beat me to it and paid a visit to the OM."

Can you share this part of your story in detail?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 01:50 PM
Thanks for the support. Believe me, it's all I can do not to choke her right now. Yes, the flippant, blatent attitude is the part I don't get. Last week, she was all crying, sending love notes etc. Now this. She's been real nice, very cordial and converstional, but at the same time she is being smug. Last night she came home mad because I told my sister and she saw me looking at houses on line. She asked me why I was looking at homes again, that no decissions had been made and I shouldn't have told my sister. WTF!! Let's see, I am suppose to WAIT for her to make up her mind six months from now and be caught flat footed? She won't admit it, but he will be with her this weekend, I found condoms in her purse and birth control pills.....yuk! Think I'll send a bottle of champagne up to her room Sunday night after they arrive and I have called everyone. I'm sure they will be in a real celebratory mood.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 02:22 PM
Princess: Thanks for the advice. I understand about the exposure and how it needs to be done and the after effects. But it's the after that has me confused. So she calls all pissed and I should remain calm and say "i'm doing this for us" or some other thing. I mean at this point isn't it better to show some metal? Say something like, I gave you every opportunity to work this out...I told you it cannot continue both ways, either you want to try and work it out or be with him. I'm not some doormat you can come home and wipe your dirty little feet on. I've been home caring for the kids. keeping everything together and you've been absent from all of our lives for a long time. We'll be fine, you just move along. Sorry to ramble, but why would something like that not be more effective. Im no shrink, so I don't know. Yes, it may tell her we're done, but WTF, she cannot have her cake and eat it too. She has to know that there are consiquenses for her actions. Exposing her, then being nice and waiting six months for it to end is like saying go have your fun, when you get it out of your system come on back. I'll take care of the house and kids while your away. I'll cook, clean and take care of it all for you. I'll wait till your done to have sex again and it will all be perfect when you come back to earth.....really, how is that done?I could be nice when she comes back, but she needs to know that there is NO chance of reconciliation as long as he's around. I've told her how I feel, that I would like to TRY and work things out, that I could and would change some things to make it work. I'm willing to set aside my pride, but I will not allow her to tramble on my dignity. I understand what Dr.Harley is saying about plan A and I am willing to try, but not if it's one sided.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 02:50 PM
Brother as 'rwinger' said, you seem to be very cool and calm...while the A is going on...!! I know I lost it and my wifes A's were over 20 years ago.

I understand about choking her out, (the OM while you're at it), with you on that too.

I also understand about the house situation, that sucks.

Finding condoms and b/c pills? Yikes that sucks badly. Yea send the Champagne with a card saying Bob, Sue, Don, etc, etc, etc, (family members that now know), also send their love and to have fun...!!

I don't blame you for looking at houses and so forth, WTF are you supposed to do? She is banging some dude basically in front of you and you're supposed to wait for them to decide what they want to do first?

Let her get angry, f-her and him.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Princess: Thanks for the advice. I understand about the exposure and how it needs to be done and the after effects. But it's the after that has me confused. So she calls all pissed and I should remain calm and say "i'm doing this for us" or some other thing. I mean at this point isn't it better to show some metal? Say something like, I gave you every opportunity to work this out...I told you it cannot continue both ways, either you want to try and work it out or be with him. I'm not some doormat you can come home and wipe your dirty little feet on. I've been home caring for the kids. keeping everything together and you've been absent from all of our lives for a long time. We'll be fine, you just move along. Sorry to ramble, but why would something like that not be more effective. Im no shrink, so I don't know. Yes, it may tell her we're done, but WTF, she cannot have her cake and eat it too. She has to know that there are consiquenses for her actions. Exposing her, then being nice and waiting six months for it to end is like saying go have your fun, when you get it out of your system come on back. I'll take care of the house and kids while your away. I'll cook, clean and take care of it all for you. I'll wait till your done to have sex again and it will all be perfect when you come back to earth.....really, how is that done?I could be nice when she comes back, but she needs to know that there is NO chance of reconciliation as long as he's around. I've told her how I feel, that I would like to TRY and work things out, that I could and would change some things to make it work. I'm willing to set aside my pride, but I will not allow her to tramble on my dignity. I understand what Dr.Harley is saying about plan A and I am willing to try, but not if it's one sided.

Yea she is cake eating, at your expense. Just think if you were banging some chick and she knew about it, and you were trying to get her to accept it, to wait for you to 'figure it out', and all that other BS.

Do you think she would be at home, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kiddies, waiting for you to come home from having sex with the OW..?

Bet not.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
But it's the after that has me confused. So she calls all pissed and I should remain calm and say "i'm doing this for us"
If you want to save the M, then yea. A wayward needs to know there is a path back if thats what the BS wants. If you tell her "Screw you, I told you to choose. Now it's to late", then she may actually believe you.

Waywards are stupid like that. banghead


Originally Posted by patriot45
I mean at this point isn't it better to show some metal? Say something like, I gave you every opportunity to work this out...I told you it cannot continue both ways, either you want to try and work it out or be with him. I'm not some doormat you can come home and wipe your dirty little feet on. I've been home caring for the kids. keeping everything together and you've been absent from all of our lives for a long time. We'll be fine, you just move along.
This is one way to go.
Especially if you want Plan-D.

Originally Posted by patriot45
Sorry to ramble, but why would something like that not be more effective.
Because if you want to save your marriage, you must treat her like an addict. You don't tell an addict "Stop or hit the road" if you don't want them to hit the road. Because most times they won't stop, you make the drug difficult to get and have an intervention (Exposure) and show them a better way during rehab (Plan-A)

Originally Posted by patriot45
I understand what Dr.Harley is saying about plan A and I am willing to try, but not if it's one sided.
Plan-A is always one sided when trying to end an affair. Until the affair is ended she will be cold, distant, and uncaring to you. Once it has ended, the Fog will start to clear and then she will start to realize what she has done.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 03:12 PM
I've never done what you are about to do. I was the WH in my marriage. But here is what I would do:

I wouldn't expose when she is in her lover's arms naked having sex. I would do it right now. Anyone and everyone who has an influence on your WW, I would tell them now, BEFORE she goes out of town. I would send emails to several of OM's friends on Fakebook, particularly the ones with the same last name that are obviously relatives. Mention the kids and how he is ripping their mother away from them. There is a chance that OM might say she's not worth it and drop her (we've seen it done before). He probably would not drop her if she were in his bed though. So I'd do it now. The buck stops here.

I would tell your W to cancel her business trip. As of right now, you are fighting for your M. Your M can withstand her anger, but it cannot withstand her having sex with another man. The vets who have been through this can tell you her script ("how could you do this" and "I was almost ready to commit to you" and "how can I trust you now" -- that last one is the best).

Anyhow, I think that waiting until they are together would be a strategic mistake. If you want the best chance to save your M, I would break up the A now, not while she and POSOM are together to support one another.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by ImStaying
Anyhow, I think that waiting until they are together would be a strategic mistake. If you want the best chance to save your M, I would break up the A now, not while she and POSOM are together to support one another.
This makes sens.
Perhaps you should do it now.
Mention the kids and there planed sexual meeting on her upcoming buisness trip.

Expose to everyone.
Send freind requests to OM FB freinds with an exposure note in it.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 05:48 PM
Patriot,

I have to give you credit and I think I'm going to be in disagreement with others on here. I think your backbone response is called for and awesome.

The problem is that the responses recommended to give are usually done and given to men who are afraid of the anger and need something to say to the WW who is in a rage.

You on the other hand seem to want to have the backbone and have the cajones to stand up and say what you feel about what she's doing.

THAT shows a lot of self respect and I commend you for it.

I think that backbone is called for when you can muster it and that you SHOULD muster it.

Telling her what you said is perfect, in my book, because it does show you're not one that will be cheated on and that you will not stand her cake eating.

She's the one who effed up. She's the one that has to prove to you she can be trusted. She's the one openly screwing another man while you're home with the kids and taking care of the house.

I wish more men on here had your backbone. I wish I had had your backbone.

By all means, if you can muster more of a response than what is recommended, you have every right.

Yes, you're trying to save your marriage and disrupting the plans of a cheating woman is a good thing.

I feel that a BH is much more free to make good decisions if he has the self respect to know that A: he'll be just fine without this cheating woman in his life, and B: He could give a rats a$$ about her getting angry.

Good on you for having self respect.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:16 PM
Although your "backbone" response is very attractive, it is attractive to YOUR TAKER. It is not what you would want to do in a case where you are trying to SAVE your MARRIAGE.

If you want to move on and not save your M than there are many people who could help you with advice about that. If you would like to attempt to SAVE your M than follow the advice given to you in that regards.

EXPOSE, PLAN A, be prepared in case you have to go to PLAN B.

There are MANY people who will help you through all of these stages. If you are in PLAN A, the "backbone" response is contrary to it. Use the responses that the vets have suggested. I always knew I was doing the right thing because it went AGAINST what my instincts were telling me to say/do. I mean my INSTINCTS got me to where I was in the first place and as Dr. Phil often says, "And how is that working for you?"
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:20 PM
x2

The backbone response is not conductive to recovery.

Wich one you use depends on your goals.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
x2

The backbone response is not conductive to recovery.

Wich one you use depends on your goals.

Disgagree. His wife is flaunting her A in front of him. I would MAN UP and file for D IMMEDIATELY. He has essentially been living in PLAN A while she has abused him. Its time to man up. Go plan D and EXPOSE THIS TO THE WORLD!! Then, lets see what her reaction is, you can always halt a divorce. DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:41 PM
It all depends on his goals.

Do not seek a divorce, if you do not want one.

If you do want one, do not seek recovery.

Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:41 PM
He has NOT been in plan A. He has not exposed. He has been waiting for her decision - plan Doormat. Obviously he will retain the right to D her, but I believe that he would rather try to save his M first.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:44 PM
I NEVER understand the "File for D IMMEDIATELY" advice. I was pretty sure that I have read many times that only file for D if YOU WANT to be D. As far as what I understand patriot does NOT want to be D.

Just because you in a Plan A, it does NOT mean that you do anything to allow the A to continue. You must do and say things that would show that you do not accept the behaviour. You can not control what anyone else does. You can manipulate people by bullying them.

Is there a time to file D? Sure. The time to file for a D is when you have tried other things and now you give up hope. Filing for a D should not be used as a bullying tactic IMHO.

Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
I NEVER understand the "File for D IMMEDIATELY" advice.

I understand it.
"Divorce immediately" is advice spoken only by persons who themselves divorced prematurely.
It's an attempt to make their own reactive decision "good advice".




Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:51 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
It all depends on his goals.

Do not seek a divorce, if you do not want one.

If you do want one, do not seek recovery.

He doesn't know his goals, in the meantime he goes insane from all the emotional abuse. This B thinks she can do whatever she wants to him. He needs to protect himself at this point. DUDE
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Scotland
I NEVER understand the "File for D IMMEDIATELY" advice.

I understand it.
"Divorce immediately" is advice spoken only by persons who themselves divorced prematurely.

Filing does nothing but put her on notice that he is serious, he has a backbone, and will not put up w/ her open A! There is a 60 day cooling off period, that what its intended for! There is no divorce immeditately, only FILING..BUMB ASHES....DUDE




Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I told you it cannot continue both ways, either you want to try and work it out or be with him. I'm not some doormat you can come home and wipe your dirty little feet on. I've been home caring for the kids. keeping everything together and you've been absent from all of our lives for a long time. We'll be fine, you just move along.

I don't undrestand why this isn't an appropriate response. If a BH came here and told us that this is exactly what he told his WW after she went on a rant, we'd be applauding him and telling him he did a great job.

So now we have a BH who is more than willing to tell his WW this and we're all, "Oh, no, don't do that."

There are no LBs in this statement and no DJs.

He draws a very clear boundary with "It can't continue both ways."

"I will not be a doormatt" is another boundary, letting the WW know that the BH will not sit idly by while she's out having her fun.

It's also a stick of truth and one which lets the WW know, "I'll be fine without you if this is the path you choose."

The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else. She's depending on him to be there. She's doing the cake eating BECAUSE she figures he'll be there no matter what she does.

We're also talking about a man who isn't even sure he wants to forgive the WW and have her back.

Patriot can look back in time with pride that he had his pride, kept it, and didn't cower at her anger.

We root for BHs to grow a set on these boards and here's one who has a pair, is more than happy to make a statement that he won't be a doormatt, and we're all freaking out that she may decide to run if he tells her he won't stand for her behavior.

Good. She should fear losing him. She is cake eating because she depends on the fact that he'll be there.

He's clearly saying that he won't stand for this affair to continue.

It's a clear line in the sand. I see nothing wrong with setting boundaries.

We advise men to do much more on these boards by cutting off finances, setting GPS in cars, recording conversations, cutting off cell phones and internet payments, etc.

Having a BH do something simple, like make a statement that he'll do just fine if she wishes to continue to screw another man, she can just do so without a husband, is a backbone and one I applaud.

What is, afterall, Plan B? It's a statement of, "go be with WW while I carry on with my life" in the hopes that A. the affair fizzles out and loving feelings are preserved by the BS and B: shields BS from further abuse.

Goodness. We're telling a BH to not clearly say that he won't stand for this behavior when there is nothing wrong with saying so. That statement won't have him end up divorced. Her continued cheating will.

I'm happy you have a pair. Keep them. I see nothing contradictory to this being the equivalent of the Carrot of Plan A. We're basically telling this man to not state that he won't stand having her openly screw another man with his full knowledge.

About a year ago we were advising a guy to a buy plane tickets to join his WW and let her and the OM know he was going to be there.

His statement is not contradictory to anything and telling a WW that he'll be just fine without her is not an announcement of divorce, it's a statement of fact. It shows that he won't be sitting at home tearfully waiting while she's out screwing another man while he prays for her to choose him.

You have a person fence sitting and another clearly saying he won't be disrespected if she does so. That's the bottom line.

Patriot, I applaud what you're doing. If she goes on this trip and openly screws another man with your knowledge, then I say it's perfectly in your right to have all her crap on the porch for her to take with her when she gets home. It's nothing we haven't advised BSs to do in the past.

You have a set of ball$. Keep them, keep your pride. You won't look back in shame if she doesn't wake up from her idiocy.

She's lucky to have you in her life, not the other way around. You're doing her a favor by showing a williness to forgive her if she decides to act like a married woman.

Seriously, what the he77 else is this man supposed to do when he has full knowledge that his wife is leaving to see OM, with plans to screw him, while he stays home and takes care of the kiddos. She might as well slap him in the face and spit on him.

She is openly and blatantly disrespecting him while asking him to sit and wait till she makes up her mind.

So he exposes, she gets mad, and then takes off on this trip. Then what?


Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else.
Not always.

Deeply fogged WS's consider it a relief if the BS makes the choice to D for them.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
Originally Posted by patriot45
I told you it cannot continue both ways, either you want to try and work it out or be with him. I'm not some doormat you can come home and wipe your dirty little feet on. I've been home caring for the kids. keeping everything together and you've been absent from all of our lives for a long time. We'll be fine, you just move along.

I don't undrestand why this isn't an appropriate response. If a BH came here and told us that this is exactly what he told his WW after she went on a rant, we'd be applauding him and telling him he did a great job.

So now we have a BH who is more than willing to tell his WW this and we're all, "Oh, no, don't do that."

There are no LBs in this statement and no DJs.

He draws a very clear boundary with "It can't continue both ways."

"I will not be a doormatt" is another boundary, letting the WW know that the BH will not sit idly by while she's out having her fun.

It's also a stick of truth and one which lets the WW know, "I'll be fine without you if this is the path you choose."

The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else. She's depending on him to be there. She's doing the cake eating BECAUSE she figures he'll be there no matter what she does.

We're also talking about a man who isn't even sure he wants to forgive the WW and have her back.

Patriot can look back in time with pride that he had his pride, kept it, and didn't cower at her anger.

We root for BHs to grow a set on these boards and here's one who has a pair, is more than happy to make a statement that he won't be a doormatt, and we're all freaking out that she may decide to run if he tells her he won't stand for her behavior.

Good. She should fear losing him. She is cake eating because she depends on the fact that he'll be there.

He's clearly saying that he won't stand for this affair to continue.

It's a clear line in the sand. I see nothing wrong with setting boundaries.

We advise men to do much more on these boards by cutting off finances, setting GPS in cars, recording conversations, cutting off cell phones and internet payments, etc.

Having a BH do something simple, like make a statement that he'll do just fine if she wishes to continue to screw another man, she can just do so without a husband, is a backbone and one I applaud.

What is, afterall, Plan B? It's a statement of, "go be with WW while I carry on with my life" in the hopes that A. the affair fizzles out and loving feelings are preserved by the BS and B: shields BS from further abuse.

Goodness. We're telling a BH to not clearly say that he won't stand for this behavior when there is nothing wrong with saying so. That statement won't have him end up divorced. Her continued cheating will.

I'm happy you have a pair. Keep them. I see nothing contradictory to this being the equivalent of the Carrot of Plan A. We're basically telling this man to not state that he won't stand having her openly screw another man with his full knowledge.

About a year ago we were advising a guy to a buy plane tickets to join his WW and let her and the OM know he was going to be there.

His statement is not contradictory to anything and telling a WW that he'll be just fine without her is not an announcement of divorce, it's a statement of fact. It shows that he won't be sitting at home tearfully waiting while she's out screwing another man while he prays for her to choose him.

You have a person fence sitting and another clearly saying he won't be disrespected if she does so. That's the bottom line.

Patriot, I applaud what you're doing. If she goes on this trip and openly screws another man with your knowledge, then I say it's perfectly in your right to have all her crap on the porch for her to take with her when she gets home. It's nothing we haven't advised BSs to do in the past.

You have a set of ball$. Keep them, keep your pride. You won't look back in shame if she doesn't wake up from her idiocy.

She's lucky to have you in her life, not the other way around. You're doing her a favor by showing a williness to forgive her if she decides to act like a married woman.

Seriously, what the he77 else is this man supposed to do when he has full knowledge that his wife is leaving to see OM, with plans to screw him, while he stays home and takes care of the kiddos. She might as well slap him in the face and spit on him.

She is openly and blatantly disrespecting him while asking him to sit and wait till she makes up her mind.

So he exposes, she gets mad, and then takes off on this trip. Then what?

I agree, but I would also file for plan D to protect his rights since he is a SAHD! Thats the reason to go ahead and file along w/ her wreckless arrogance..DUDE
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else.
Not always.

Deeply fogged WS's consider it a relief if the BS makes the choice to D for them.

Then so be it. At least he has protected his children from her wrecklessness. HE ISN'T THE ONLY ONE BEING ABUSED HERE! They are too!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else.
Not always.

Deeply fogged WS's consider it a relief if the BS makes the choice to D for them.

And as a "sign" they were "never meant to be together".

And proof that the BS "never really loved me anyway".

Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
The risk of actually losing the BH is more of a wakeup to a WW than anything else.
Not always.

Deeply fogged WS's consider it a relief if the BS makes the choice to D for them.

And as a "sign" they were "never meant to be together".

And proof that the BS "never really loved me anyway".


Yeah , cuz people will believe that over the fact that she was BANGN another man...DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Yeah , cuz people will believe that over the fact that she was BANGN another man...DUDE
Huh?
I'm not following your meaning.

What people?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 08:35 PM
Funny thing is I have never used a discussion forum before, now I can't get away....thanks to all for the great advise. The job I was suppose to start in two weeks, may be put on hold for funding. I wont know until early next week. My concern with that is once I go through with this, I don't want to do it and be in the position of having to depend on her. I want to be in a position of strength. I go to her and say and do all this and then stay in the house and let her pay the bills for me is a little weak. Yea, something needs to be done now and I thought with this job, I would be able to move on. I was just told this, which has totally F-ed me up. I went from feeling great about what I was doing, back to feeling like she has all the cards. Hopefully I'll get good news next week and I can move on. Word of advise to all....NEVER allow yourself to be so dependent on someone else that it takes away your options. ALWAYS have an out.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Funny thing is I have never used a discussion forum before, now I can't get away....thanks to all for the great advise. The job I was suppose to start in two weeks, may be put on hold for funding. I wont know until early next week. My concern with that is once I go through with this, I don't want to do it and be in the position of having to depend on her. I want to be in a position of strength. I go to her and say and do all this and then stay in the house and let her pay the bills for me is a little weak. Yea, something needs to be done now and I thought with this job, I would be able to move on. I was just told this, which has totally F-ed me up. I went from feeling great about what I was doing, back to feeling like she has all the cards. Hopefully I'll get good news next week and I can move on. Word of advise to all....NEVER allow yourself to be so dependent on someone else that it takes away your options. ALWAYS have an out.


No, DUDE(not me, but) hey, thats what ALL OF US BH's [censored] about on here when their WW who is a SAHM has an A. YOU HOLD ALL THE CARDS!! She just doesn't know it! I'm telling you. YOU ARE IN THE BEST POSITION! CONTACT A LAWYER RIGHT NOW! Tell him you are a SAHD and your wife is running around like a forties BRITNEY SPEARS! You hold the CARDS my friend. You can lock in you alimony/cs and then get a J O B!!! Contact a lawyer and then expose!! I'M SCREAMING AT MY MONITOR!! DO THIS! DUDE
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 01/15/10 08:52 PM
Patriot -

I'm with some of the others. Expose *before* her trip....her family/friends/employer/whoever may put enough pressure on her that she may cancel the trip outright. At the very least it will put a lot of pressure on the affair.

As the stay-at-home parent you have a lot of leverage and you need to use it to your advantage. It sounds like you may think that you staying in the house and having her support you is unmanly...let me put it in this perspective: you are protecting your children from the bad choices and behavior of your WW, and ensuring that they have a home to stay in and at least one rational parent. A man has no higher calling than to protect his children.

I strongly recommend you speak to an attorney if you haven't already done so regarding custody and support arrangements. You can start that this weekend and get it in place next week while she's away and at a disadvantage.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 01:17 AM
patriot,

I'm not advising you to go file D papers. I do think you should expose at a minimum.

That being said, I offer some food for thought:


The greatest realization I've come to is that NO ONE is worth any of this kind of pain. I literally have damage to my heart from my ordeal.

Life is too short to wait for a wayward for too long. They wake their a$$ up or they can get the he77 out. There's plenty of good women in the world and one that cheats isn't worth the a$$pain of years of waiting for her to get it, defog, and come back.

Life is too short for it.

KNOWING this, and knowing that you will be ok no matter what, is a monster source of strength.

I will caution you on something, however. You are a man. I don't care if you're the dad of the year and got the award given to you in a big ceremony by Bill Cosby. Courts are biased. They don't care that you stayed home. Going into a custody battle is full out warfare and there is zero mercy. Women play super dirty in such battles and resort to false accusations and really dirty tactics. I'm sure you might tell yourself, as most men do, that she wouldn't try to keep the kids from you, but trust me, she will try.

The courts are biased towards women, though there is a big move towards more fairness. The judges also don't care about adultery. Short of your WW doing it in front of the kids, they don't care. They view the failure of the marriage as being the fault of both parties.

As the man, you don't play dirty. You have to play carefully. Documentation, diaries, etc, carry weight. Done right, you will come out with a fair arrangement, which is 50/50 or better.

So what is my advice?

I'm not saying to D. What I'm saying is that if you do D, you will be fine. Life will continue and you will likely be happy she's out of your life someday.

If you don't D, then you'll have to deal with recovery, which isn't easy, but you may emerge from the other side with a marriage to envy. Many on these boards have done it.

Ultimately the decision is yours. If you file for D first, you will have certain legal advantages. You can always withdraw your request for a D down the road as the person who filed. This gives you a degree of control over the situation.

I'm not telling you to go one way or the other. I'm happy when a WW wakes up to a degree and returns to try to fix things. But I'm also happy when a BH moves on and has a personal recovery from a D. There's tons of men like that on this board. PSUBIKER, Chrisner, SDGuy and others are in that boat.

Ultimately, you're the only one that can decide if he can live with the knowledge that the wife had such a high level of disrespect at one point to openly screw another man with your full knowledge.

That's a tough one and not one I'm sure I could forgive very easily. It's one thing to sneak around. It's quite another to be blatant about it and throw it in your face AND still expect you to wait while she makes up her mind.

You have nothing to lose by consulting a lawyer and simply knowing what your legal options are. But don't assume that because you're the stay at home dad that you will have the upper hand. There's still lots of bias out there. It's not a path to be taken lightly and with confidence of victory. There is much risk.

The decision either way is yours.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 01:17 AM
Dude, you're the best....I love reading your responses. Man, you don't understand how bad I need this job. I hear what your saying, but if If we seperate and I am not working we'll probably have to move. I need to think of my kids right now.I get this job, all is good and I have the ability to make better decissions. Without the job, I have the option to leave or stay, but she controls the purse strings. I NEED to have something good happen. I get this and everything changes. Stay or go,her choice, but the kids and I can stay in our home and we'll be fine. No job, we move into a smaller home, or move back to MA. Don't like those options.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 01:22 AM
The other thing:

You could lock alimony, but your job would be a "material change of circumstances" and force you to return to court so she can pay you less alimony.

You have less to lose by getting the job. Judges know that alimony isn't a forever thing and the non working spouse will eventually have to get a job.

Get the job. In this economy, you'll need it. If one is available take it.

While you're at it, stock up on food since the dollar will collapse from our debt, but that's another story for another thread....:)
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 01:44 AM
Texas laws are very restrictive as far as alimony laws. I could collect support until the divorce, but then it would just be child support. A lot is riding on this job. It's not just the finances, it's my self esteem. I REALLY need something good to happen so I feel better about where I'm at.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 01:55 AM
I am following your thread, Patriot and I am praying that you get the job.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:01 AM
Thank you.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by Gack1
x2

The backbone response is not conductive to recovery.

Wich one you use depends on your goals.
When it's a WW and not a WH, I totally disagree. A WW is far less likely to come home if the BH doesn't stand up and show his cajones.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:44 AM
Quote
I wouldn't expose when she is in her lover's arms naked having sex. I would do it right now. Anyone and everyone who has an influence on your WW, I would tell them now, BEFORE she goes out of town.
Yep.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
Originally Posted by Gack1
x2

The backbone response is not conductive to recovery.

Wich one you use depends on your goals.
When it's a WW and not a WH, I totally disagree. A WW is far less likely to come home if the BH doesn't stand up and show his cajones.

EXACTLY, no WOMAN wants to be married to a wimp. She wants an asskicker! DUDE
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Dude, you're the best....I love reading your responses. Man, you don't understand how bad I need this job. I hear what your saying, but if If we seperate and I am not working we'll probably have to move. I need to think of my kids right now.I get this job, all is good and I have the ability to make better decissions. Without the job, I have the option to leave or stay, but she controls the purse strings. I NEED to have something good happen. I get this and everything changes. Stay or go,her choice, but the kids and I can stay in our home and we'll be fine. No job, we move into a smaller home, or move back to MA. Don't like those options.

Ok, you've convinced. BUT LISTEN, you tell f'n everyone what she is doing. The nasty details if you know them. EVERYONE! Lets show this B who runs this f'n show! DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:03 AM
Originally Posted by catperson
When it's a WW and not a WH, I totally disagree. A WW is far less likely to come home if the BH doesn't stand up and show his cajones.
I'm not sugesting he not be firm.

But the screw you B, where done, get lost and don't come back approach is less likley to result in recovery than a firm and respectful decloration of boundries.

The DUDE aproach may be more likley to result in D than the MB approach.

Boundries = respect
Threats/DJ's/orders/reveng/anger, do not = Respect, it may = Fear, but fear is not respect.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by catperson
When it's a WW and not a WH, I totally disagree. A WW is far less likely to come home if the BH doesn't stand up and show his cajones.
I'm not sugesting he not be firm.

But the screw you B, where done, get lost and don't come back approach is less likley to result in recovery than a firm and respectful decloration of boundries.

The DUDE aproach may be more likley to result in D than the MB approach.

Boundries = respect
Threats/DJ's/orders/reveng/anger, do not = Respect, it may = Fear, but fear is not respect.

Whatever, I'm sitting right next to my fwxw and she agrees. No woman wants some sobby a$$ wimpy dude for a husband. Let plan A you, you are so sweet going and bangn the OM. See me doing the dishes w/ my apron on? THis is what you will be missing??!! Whatever. Patriot, chime in, whats your gut feeling? What I'm telling you? MAN UP MY FRIEND...DUDE
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:27 AM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
The other thing:

You could lock alimony, but your job would be a "material change of circumstances" and force you to return to court so she can pay you less alimony.

You have less to lose by getting the job. Judges know that alimony isn't a forever thing and the non working spouse will eventually have to get a job.

Get the job. In this economy, you'll need it. If one is available take it.

While you're at it, stock up on food since the dollar will collapse from our debt, but that's another story for another thread....:)

AND stock up on GOLD and SILVER and you will sleep well, just like I do..DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:38 AM
I saw that you were in the same situation....how did it turn out for ya?
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I saw that you were in the same situation....how did it turn out for ya?

I am divorced, dating/seeing my fwxw w/ all my assets in my name. I know what I'm doing. You have to take control of the situation FIRST, then you can be Don Juan after her life crashes around her. You are going to have to bring her down. I did it. THEN, she will love and respect you and DESIRE you as the MAN. I wouldn't listen to some of the geeky(gacky) guys on here. YOU KNOW YOU NEED TO WEAR THE PANTS, THATS WHY YOU WANT THE JOB??! Run this show my friend. TAKE CONTROL RIGHT NOW BY TELLING EVERYONE WHAT SHE IS DOING and you will NOT put up w it...DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:50 AM
Originally Posted by Dude007
AND stock up on GOLD and SILVER and you will sleep well, just like I do..DUDE
I prefer Generators, Fire arms, heavy equipment, and large acreage with a water source. But what do I know, I'm a Plan-A/Plan-B wimp

Originally Posted by Dude007
TAKE CONTROL RIGHT NOW BY TELLING EVERYONE WHAT SHE IS DOING
Thats exposure, part of Plan-A.
Exposure is a great thing.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:51 AM
Yep.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:55 AM
I thoroughly enjoy but do not always agree with the Dude's all or nothing aproach but I think that in your case you need to take back the leadership role in your family that your wife has usurped. I believe that may be your only chance.

As before, I am praying for you and I applaud your deliberate if slow and thoughtful response. It may be exactly what your WW needs to shock her back to reality.If not, you seem ready and able to proceed on your own with your kids.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 04:16 AM
You live in Texas. I'm jealous. They understand the usurpation of power.

Agreed on the generators, water source, food, gold and silver.

I also agree on the taking control of the situation. But not so sure about the dating of a wxw. I know I couldn't do it, even if she started floating in air, grew a halo, and performed miracles. I'd still wonder what the catch was and honestly feel I'd be sick to my stomach. I would also mean I'd have to give up one of the coolest women in the world.

But if it's good for Dude, I applaud it.

Finally, Patriot, if you do keep your cajones, just make sure you don't wear your pants on the ground. You'll look like a fool.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:14 PM
Go for the job.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:36 PM
x3 on the Job
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 02:45 PM
Gack: You say be firm, but what does that mean? Do you say stop now or else? Do you tell her your not a doormat and I wont put up with it anymore? Not sure what being firm means. What are the consequences if she continues? I know what the consequences are, but do you point them out to her or is that considered a threat? Everything that's being said is so contrary to how I feel. What's funny is while she has been home this week and we have not really talked about this, we have gotten along great. Conversation is good, she's been responsive and attentive. But I know she's feeling good because she is getting the best of both worlds.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Gack: You say be firm, but what does that mean? Do you say stop now or else?
Firm = I can not allow you to continue to disrespect me and destroy our family by continuing your affair. Your relationship with OM must stop, or you will be forcing me to protect myself from your abuse.

Or something along those lines.

Then, if it does not end, go to Plan-B until you are ready for Plan-D

Plan Dude = F you B, get the heck out and don't come back, I'm going to the bar and have SF with as many women I can. Then doing everything you can to destroy your wifes life. Even after she ends the affair, goes NC with OM, and begs for your forgiveness.


I forget, have you exposed yet?
To everyone?
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 03:44 PM
Yea as 'Gack' said, I don't think you've shared if you have exposed as of yet?

I agree with others about being firm. 'Dude' does make a lot of sense, and his idea prolly works with a lot of women, but not all. I don't think many women, if any at all, like weak men. They certainly do not respect them. If a woman is banging in front of you and in your face, that's total disrespect.

If she is sneaking around and denying she is doing anything, as another poster said, that's one thing, but when she is out in the open, carrying condoms, etc, in her purse, thats another thing.

I would, at LEAST, be 'firm', if not then I would do the Dude plan.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/16/10 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by codtej
Yea as 'Gack' said, I don't think you've shared if you have exposed as of yet?

I agree with others about being firm. 'Dude' does make a lot of sense, and his idea prolly works with a lot of women, but not all. I don't think many women, if any at all, like weak men. They certainly do not respect them. If a woman is banging in front of you and in your face, that's total disrespect.

If she is sneaking around and denying she is doing anything, as another poster said, that's one thing, but when she is out in the open, carrying condoms, etc, in her purse, thats another thing.

I would, at LEAST, be 'firm', if not then I would do the Dude plan.

Thanks for the endorsement. You seem like a really smart guy...DUDE
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 03:29 AM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by codtej
Yea as 'Gack' said, I don't think you've shared if you have exposed as of yet?

I agree with others about being firm. 'Dude' does make a lot of sense, and his idea prolly works with a lot of women, but not all. I don't think many women, if any at all, like weak men. They certainly do not respect them. If a woman is banging in front of you and in your face, that's total disrespect.

If she is sneaking around and denying she is doing anything, as another poster said, that's one thing, but when she is out in the open, carrying condoms, etc, in her purse, thats another thing.

I would, at LEAST, be 'firm', if not then I would do the Dude plan.

Thanks for the endorsement. You seem like a really smart guy...DUDE

You mean really smart, 'dude', lol.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by codtej
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by codtej
Yea as 'Gack' said, I don't think you've shared if you have exposed as of yet?

I agree with others about being firm. 'Dude' does make a lot of sense, and his idea prolly works with a lot of women, but not all. I don't think many women, if any at all, like weak men. They certainly do not respect them. If a woman is banging in front of you and in your face, that's total disrespect.

If she is sneaking around and denying she is doing anything, as another poster said, that's one thing, but when she is out in the open, carrying condoms, etc, in her purse, thats another thing.

I would, at LEAST, be 'firm', if not then I would do the Dude plan.

Thanks for the endorsement. You seem like a really smart guy...DUDE

You mean really smart, 'dude', lol.

Smarter than MOST 0n here..DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 01:06 PM
My gut feeling is you're right, give her an ultimatum and force the issue. She has been home this week and all has been good. We have talked, not about that and the conversation is good. Until last night: I asked herwhat she thought I should do with my job and she said as long as you know I still need to travel a lot, you do what you want. So I said that means you continue to travel, I work 50 hurs a week with a 45 minute commute each way. I drop off and pick-up the kids. My life changes completely and your's continues on unabated. "Well I could quit my job, then what". Then I said you are going away this week..... are you going by yourself. She says yes. Then I rephrase it and say will you be there by yourself.....no. WTF! I said you know this can't continue...then the tears come and how she is confused, If I'm asking her to choose right now she can't. That I don't want a divorce. I told her that I want this to work, but your not a football that I'm willing to pass around with everyone. I said how am I suppose to compete with weekday getaways to New Orleans,.....5 star hotels, great food, no kids, bills or responsibility. Banging around like a monkeys in heat. Sign me up!! Then she comes back to kids running around, Cub Scouts, financial worries and THE REAL WORLD and she can't wait to get away again.. This has all reached a new level of absurd. I have not exposed yet, my plan is to wait until she leaves tonight and make the calls. By the time she lands, his and her phone should be blowing up. They should have a lot to talk about then. I'm sure It will be some interesting reading tonight.....stay tuned.
Posted By: atena Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 01:22 PM
Oh yes Patriot, good decision. Finally. Yes, you need to expose to everyone.
We can't compete with a fantasy till the fantasy is over...
blessing
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 01:22 PM
Praying for you,Patriot.You are doing the right thing for your M and your family.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 01:29 PM
I'm glad you re-phrased your question, too bad you had to do to get an honest answer from your WW.

Yea she is confused, and you are exactly right 'Patriot', you can compete under those conditions. Just like if the OM had to deal with your wifes kids, the bills, the every day, daily grind, he wouldn't find being with your wife so much fun either. Now he gets the booty and all of the fun.

She is cake eating and having a blast and as long as she is allowed to continue to do it, she will. As everyone says, she is in a fantasy world and it is her escape from reality.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 01:45 PM
�I asked herwhat she thought I should do with my job and she said as long as you know I still need to travel a lot, you do what you want.�

This means do what you want just as long as you do not interfere with my affair.

�Then I said you are going away this week..... are you going by yourself. She says yes. Then I rephrase it and say will you be there by yourself.....no.�

You have not had the balls to expose. You are letting some posters here get you all worked up on being tuff. Yet you are to scared to do a full exposure.

What are you afraid off?

Is it getting WW mad at you?

What will she do if she gets mad, go off and bang the OM?

Oh wait, I forgot WW is going away this week to bang the OM. I guess she will show you for exposing the affair.


�I said you know this can't continue...then the tears come and how she is confused, If I'm asking her to choose right now she can't.�

WW is addicted to the OM you need to break this addiction. Addiction is broken by the use of NC.

Take this job.

Expose WW parents and siblings, kids, OMW, OM parents, and work. Email CEO, CC Director of HR, and the board of Directors.

WW will not give up her job at the minimum because you do not have one. Do this exposure. Then if you can�t do a plan A then give exposure a full week to take effect then you can draw the line in the sand. NC or WW has to move out and plan B her.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 03:39 PM
Expose, to everyone now!
Family, friends, parents, same for OM and his wife and family.

Do this now!!

Do it with respect, asking if there is any way they can help end the affair and save your marriage.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 03:57 PM
basics of Plan A:

- Make the marriage a good place to be in
- Make the affair a bad place to be
- Make the marriage difficult to leave

Once exposure is completed.

Need to confront, and if possible meet up with the OM. He needs to be enlightened that you now know and will not put up with 3 people in this marriage. There are times where a single OM will move elsewhere. Do this before the OM starts getting emotionally involved and while its just sexual on his part.

Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 08:15 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
My gut feeling is you're right, give her an ultimatum and force the issue. She has been home this week and all has been good. We have talked, not about that and the conversation is good. Until last night: I asked herwhat she thought I should do with my job and she said as long as you know I still need to travel a lot, you do what you want. So I said that means you continue to travel, I work 50 hurs a week with a 45 minute commute each way. I drop off and pick-up the kids. My life changes completely and your's continues on unabated. "Well I could quit my job, then what". Then I said you are going away this week..... are you going by yourself. She says yes. Then I rephrase it and say will you be there by yourself.....no. WTF! I said you know this can't continue...then the tears come and how she is confused, If I'm asking her to choose right now she can't. That I don't want a divorce. I told her that I want this to work, but your not a football that I'm willing to pass around with everyone. I said how am I suppose to compete with weekday getaways to New Orleans,.....5 star hotels, great food, no kids, bills or responsibility. Banging around like a monkeys in heat. Sign me up!! Then she comes back to kids running around, Cub Scouts, financial worries and THE REAL WORLD and she can't wait to get away again.. This has all reached a new level of absurd. I have not exposed yet, my plan is to wait until she leaves tonight and make the calls. By the time she lands, his and her phone should be blowing up. They should have a lot to talk about then. I'm sure It will be some interesting reading tonight.....stay tuned.

Fax over some mocked up divorce papers to the hotel, waiting for her at the front desk. Lets break this B. She has lost her damn mind...Post after you EXPOSE!DUDE
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 10:12 PM
"Fax over some mocked up divorce papers to the hotel, waiting for her at the front desk. Lets break this B. She has lost her damn mind"...

And so has Dud(e)!

Never send fake divorce papers.

Never even say you will divorce WW unless you are.

Saying something, but then not doing it only serves to teach a WW is that the BH is weak and is only good at threats. He never follows through.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"Fax over some mocked up divorce papers to the hotel, waiting for her at the front desk. Lets break this B. She has lost her damn mind"...

And so has Dud(e)!

Never send fake divorce papers.

Never even say you will divorce WW unless you are.

Saying something, but then not doing it only serves to teach a WW is that the BH is weak and is only good at threats. He never follows through.

And so has TheRoad(to ruin). Who is to say he doesnt divorce her. I say is 98% probability. How humiliating is this that she flaunting this affair in his FACE??!! THAT HAS PLAN D WRITTEN ALL OVER IT!! DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:03 PM
Done...and as you all said she went BALISTIC!!! She has been calling every 5 minutes with F this and F that. "Why are you involving other people in our lives". "I haven't discussed this with anyone else and your telling everyone, how could you do this". "How am I suppose to face them again". Well, you're not, that was my point. Sucks to be crapped on doesn't it. To all the passives out there (not you Dude) I did manage to keep calm until she said something about me not working for the last three years. It was a VERY good thing she was not near me. I'm glad she's gone for a few days, I am sooooooo tired right now. She just called while I was typing and said "please don't hold anything I said against me, I was just talking from anger". Ya think? I guess that's good that she at least appologized. I'll update later. Thanks to all for the advice.
Posted By: Miss M Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:05 PM
Dude,

The Road is absolutely right.

Haven't there been enough lies already?

Besides, people need to step back before they react. You most certainly did not, and how you reacted to your wife's affair may have pumped up your ego, but for 99.9999999% of the people here, this is NOT a good idea.

You need to think before you post.

Love in Christ,
Miss M
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by Miss M
Dude,

The Road is absolutely right.

Haven't there been enough lies already?

Besides, people need to step back before they react. You most certainly did not, and how you reacted to your wife's affair may have pumped up your ego, but for 99.9999999% of the people here, this is NOT a good idea.

You need to think before you post. How rude.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

**edit**
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Done...and as you all said she went BALISTIC!!! She has been calling every 5 minutes with F this and F that. "Why are you involving other people in our lives". "I haven't discussed this with anyone else and your telling everyone, how could you do this". "How am I suppose to face them again". Well, you're not, that was my point. Sucks to be crapped on doesn't it. To all the passives out there (not you Dude) I did manage to keep calm until she said something about me not working for the last three years. It was a VERY good thing she was not near me. I'm glad she's gone for a few days, I am sooooooo tired right now. She just called while I was typing and said "please don't hold anything I said against me, I was just talking from anger". Ya think? I guess that's good that she at least appologized. I'll update later. Thanks to all for the advice.

KEEP EXPOSING, ANYONE AND EVERYONE YOU CAN THANK OF! All her FRIENDS! ...And about you not working, tell her you do all the work in bed!!! coolDUDE
Posted By: Miss M Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:13 PM
I erased my disrespectful judgement.

You can be a christian and tell the truth.

And it did help your self-esteem, how you reacted. You have said many times how great it made you feel at the time.

I am not a hypocrite. This will be my last post to you on that subject. Let's get back to the subject of this BH.

Love in Christ,
Miss M
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/17/10 11:16 PM
**edit**
Posted By: Revera Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 12:08 AM
Let's keep posts productive to the OP and stop with the personal attacks.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by Revera
Let's keep posts productive to the OP and stop with the personal attacks.

My apologies to Miss M and to the board in general. I'm on this new diet and it makes me real irritable.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 01:28 AM
Anyways....good for you brother, you did good. When she said, "Why are you involving other people in our lives"?...You should've said, "it was YOU that brought the first OTHER PERSON into our lives, the freaken OM, what you feel is a fraction of how I feel"..?


You are just starting to fight back, keep strong.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 05:24 AM
Quote
Done...and as you all said she went BALISTIC!!! She has been calling every 5 minutes with F this and F that. "Why are you involving other people in our lives". "I haven't discussed this with anyone else and your telling everyone, how could you do this". "How am I suppose to face them again". Well, you're not, that was my point. Sucks to be crapped on doesn't it. To all the passives out there (not you Dude) I did manage to keep calm until she said something about me not working for the last three years. It was a VERY good thing she was not near me. I'm glad she's gone for a few days, I am sooooooo tired right now. She just called while I was typing and said "please don't hold anything I said against me, I was just talking from anger". Ya think? I guess that's good that she at least appologized. I'll update later. Thanks to all for the advice.

Did you notice that the power paradigm shift?

My opinion - What the hell could she be thinking that she can go on trip and have sex with another man while her husband stays home to take of her kids and knows what is happening?

That is one of the benefits of exposure - it interjects reality into the fantasy. Especially to the cake eaters who want to keep both worlds. In her mind - she may have thought you three should be all friends - he provides her sexual and emotional needs and you take care of the home front.

What you have done is stand up and be counted and will not fade away without a fight. Good work.

Who did you expose to? Did you confront or contact the OM?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 09:01 AM
Who have you exposed?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Who have you exposed?
rotflmao
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 04:05 PM
pep

I must be short.

That one went right over my head. dontknow
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
pep

I must be short.

That one went right over my head. dontknow

I got it. To WHOM have you exposed the affair? Who have you exposed? well, lets just say we know that's not the question you want answered..DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:09 PM
Well, I haven't gotten in touch with everyone I want yet, but her sister, my sister and a friend are who knows. I finally called him and as I suspected he wouldn't answer, so I left a message and sent him and her an e-mail. What a [censored]. Anyway, heres what I sent.

I have sat by and bitten my tongue for long enough. Nan says you don't want to be involved in this......you should have thought about that before you started sleeping with my wife. What a cowardly comment.

Up until now I have swallowed my pride and fought against every feeling which says throw her stuff out and pay you a visit. My concern has been and will be for my kids. I haven't said or done anything up until now because I need to do what's right by them and I wanted to try and repair my marriage. All night long I've been trying to deal with a crying daughter who doesn't understand what's going on and why her parents are getting a divorce....... enough is enough. Sorry to bust your little fantasy bubble, but it's about to get very real for you. Time for your dirty little secret to see the light of day.

I will say this once and once only: Keep your sorted affair out of our life. I see you two talking or texting, or I even suspect you are texting in my house again, you and I wont be conversing via e-mail. I have to say, you've got some big ones talking and texting her knowing I'm here. If you want to keep them....I suggest you stop.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:17 PM
Never threaten. Especially when there is a witness, or one is dumb enough to put it in wrting. You have played yourself into their hands.

Now RO can be filed against you. Hurts you when you go for custody. WW can claim she feels threatened, have you remove from the house, move OM in, get full emergency custody because you are unstable.

Bad enough when the OM is screwing yourself, but a whole other story when you screw yourself.

Let's hope that the OM and WW are not smart enough to try and work this evidence into their favor.

Unfortunately some people have been working you up to act rashly.

Right way to confront and a wrong way.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:36 PM
He is in TEXAS...We take care of sheet down here...He will just fine.

Patriot, don't put anything else in writing. GO AFTER HER!! WORRY ABOUT HIM LATER..NUCLEAR EXPOSURE RIGHT NOW!!! DUDE
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:37 PM
Road - I might suggest he pre-empt the R/O and take one out on OM himself since this is effectively hurting his children in their own home.

He needs to be seeing an attorney anyway, since WW abandoned the family to go be with her paramour...
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
Road - I might suggest he pre-empt the R/O and take one out on OM himself since this is effectively hurting his children in their own home.

He needs to be seeing an attorney anyway, since WW abandoned the family to go be with her paramour...

Agreed. And he is in TEXAS, not some liberal pansy a state. Have you read our CASTLE LAWS DOWN HERE? Its still the ol west in some parts...DUDE
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 06:47 PM
Pat45,

I see no overly threatening language here. I would not send any more emails to the low life though.

And also that your WW then called back to apologize for her angry words already has to be a good sign.... think..unless she is into total sneak mode and going underground.

This exposure hit her right where we wanted it to and she should will be thinking twice about even meeting up with OM on this trip.

Did you expose to her HR at work? They should frown upon sexually fraternizing with a vendor.

Keep up the pressure. Stay calm and speak logically when she rants and raves at you.

Stay strong and remember you are doing this for the kids!!

Remember you are on the high road and have done NOTHING wrong!!

Good job.

kirk

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 08:30 PM
Okay, I posted that last note and then didn't send it.(sorry dude) I was extremly pissed about my daughter and I responded, but did not send. I thought about what some of you said and your right about not threatening. So what are you suppose to say to this guy....nothing? There is all the talk of exposure, shouldn't he here from me? What are you suppose to say "you've been a bad boy, please stop sleeping with my wife"? He is not a vendor with her company, he is an independent contractor so there is no conection through work.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, I posted that last note and then didn't send it.(sorry dude) I was extremly pissed about my daughter and I responded, but did not send. I thought about what some of you said and your right about not threatening. So what are you suppose to say to this guy....nothing? There is all the talk of exposure, shouldn't he here from me? What are you suppose to say "you've been a bad boy, please stop sleeping with my wife"? He is not a vendor with her company, he is an independent contractor so there is no conection through work.

STOP WORRYING ABOUT HIM RIGHT NOW! Your vows are w/ YOUR WIFE! BLOW HER FANTASY WORLD UP RIGHT NOW! TEll everyone what she is doing including your kids! DO IT NOW! You are enabling this thing and she thinks she is running the SHOW! DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/18/10 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, I posted that last note and then didn't send it.(sorry dude) I was extremly pissed about my daughter and I responded, but did not send. I thought about what some of you said and your right about not threatening. So what are you suppose to say to this guy....nothing? There is all the talk of exposure, shouldn't he here from me? What are you suppose to say "you've been a bad boy, please stop sleeping with my wife"? He is not a vendor with her company, he is an independent contractor so there is no conection through work.
Quit wasting time on a POSOM when you could be exposing to all of her family and friends and HIS parents. THOSE are the people who need to hear from you. THEY are the ones who can shine light on their nasty crap.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 01:04 AM
Pat,

Quote
"Why are you involving other people in our lives".


Dear Lord in Heaven!! smile Guess who has been involving other people in your lives? Sometimes, I laugh until I cry when I read what some of the WSs say.

Pat, hang in there.

JL
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 01:17 AM
Pat,

I forget if he works with your W if he does you expose to his work. If he is married you expose to his W. If you know his family you expose to his family.

However, exposure is not about punishment. It is about reaching out. Your family, her family, your friends, her friends should know about the affair. Your exposure should be seeking their help in ending the affair so that you two can try and save this marriage and protect the kids. You need to do all of this NOW. She will spinning to all of her friends and family that you are nuts.

The others are right. You never threaten. You never say "or else". You never put stuff in writing that can be used against you. What you do is...DO what is necessary to protect your family, you, and hopefully your marriage. You see a lawyer and get things rolling. You seek counsel with clergy or someone you trust. You investigate your boundaries. See where they lay, and you protect them. Not with threats but actions.

You can tell your W, I have my boundaries and limits and when you cross them I will respond. No more, no less.

You are not playing to win the darned battle young man. You are playing to win the war, and that may mean she is left for dead on the field. She is playing with the enemy now and so you have to treat her as such.

It is my hope that the she will see the light and change what she is doing, but she sounds very full of herself and apparently has little respect for you. Until that changes,you are at war, win it!!!!!

That means marshalling all of your resources, legal, emotional, financial, and moral. Then develop a plan to use these resources as warrented.

Dude's scorched earth approach sounds appealing, but what Harley has found time and again, is that scorched gets you...scorched earth. Not what you want no matter how appealing the thoughts are. You need to firm, tactical, relentless, and focussed on the process and the plan.

Get to work.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:08 PM
Okay all: I did like you said, I called everyone I could, messaged all his Facebook freinds and got the ball rolling. Her response was exactly what I thought. She went BALISTIC. Her parents called her, freinds called and they all said the same thing that she needed to decide and what she was doing is wrong. She called me and said when she gets back, she's filing for divorce. She hates me and never thought I would do something like that. I asked her how long she thought I was going to wait She said she was sitting in her hotel room Sunday night crying and thinking how she wanted to try and work things out. Now there is zero chance anything can be done. I said if he was going to be there on Tuesday and you were thinking that on Sunday, why didn't you call him and say.... don't come? No answer. She's worried that her father thinks she's a two bit wh..re and everyone else is going to judge her. She threatened me about losing the kids and how I am going to pay for this. I only said I know your angry and you may not believe it, but I am trying to fix things. I asked her how long she thought I was going to sit by and do nothing. She said I only asked for some time to sort it out and you couldn't do that. I said last week you were with him and you came back and said "I can't decide" Now this week, then in two more weeks, I had to do something. She has gone way over the edge. I notified about 20 people on his facebook page and few responded to me saying how sorry they were. I went back, and he had shut it down so he got the message. I have not heard from her since I did that, so I'm sure they are sitting together having a great talk at my expense. F-them. So now the fun begins. Her Mom and dad told her (I'm sure that was hard to take) that if they were called to testify, or present there opinion in a custody case, they would support me. I have no idea what to expect when she comes home on Thursday.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:13 PM
YOU ARE RIGHT! F-THEM! Now how strong do you feel? You are running this f show now! DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:16 PM
Awesome!

Just remember that we could have quoted to you EXACTLY what she said, before she said it. They ALL say those things. 'I was JUST thinking of coming back to you, and NOW you've ruined it.' Or 'NOW I'm going to divorce you.' Or 'You've ruined your chances.'

Always the same.

It all means that it's working. Her A is no longer the fun, sexy, exciting thing it once was. Now it's her entrance into Loser Hall of Fame, and she hates it.

And thank God for her parents! You ought to send them a cookie bouquet or something.

You've made the best possible chance for getting your family back by doing this.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:23 PM
We'll see. If there is anyone out there with advise on restraining orders, I would appreciate it. My concern is she may try and close the account on us. I work part-time, but most of the income is hers. Do I get a restraining order, or wait and see and get one later if needed. Any advise as on how to handle her divorce demand? No Dude, the Castle Law does not apply here. naughty
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:27 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
We'll see. If there is anyone out there with advise on restraining orders, I would appreciate it. My concern is she may try and close the account on us. I work part-time, but most of the income is hers. Do I get a restraining order, or wait and see and get one later if needed. Any advise as on how to handle her divorce demand? No Dude, the Castle Law does not apply here. naughty

She is not going to do anything. You just blew up her fantasy world. Call her and talk to sweet to her. She better not touch your bank account. If you are in Texas you own half of everything. You are covered my friend. Stay strong, have faith...DUDE
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:29 PM
Hi Pat, smile

Are you having a good day? You should be. First, you shined a very bright light on the goings on of your W and they are scattering like cockroaches. Her comments are literally word for word what we have read here over many many years. It means she is hurt, she is afraid, she is anxious, she is frustrated and all of those primary feelings come out as .... ANGER. She cannot be anger at herself, because after all this was just fine with her. She cannot be angry with OM because...after all he is the love of her life, right now.

What she will come to see eventually, is that this is all her doing and she is the one that must face it. What her folks see, and you see and apparently even OM's friends see, is that their little affair has harmed many many people, hence you are getting at least moral support.

You have done well. You marriage can survive her anger, it cannot survive the affair. You drove a stake through the snake and it is wiggling and hissing and trying to bite you. But, it will die

Hang in there, be a good dad to your kids, keep hoping for that job, and really really understand that you did the right thing.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:29 PM
Normal WW response to fake anger. Proving exposure is working. Best to heed the sane veteran poster's such as JL. catperson, melody lane, etc... here then letting rabbid RA artists leading you into trouble.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:30 PM
No reason to get a restraining order. Why do you think that you need one?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:37 PM
She's nut's right now, I don't want her to take money from the account or doing anything else crazy. Your right, if she does that stuff, I can always file to get it stopped. I'll be wearing my bullet proof vest for a couple weeks.....just in case.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
No reason to get a restraining order. Why do you think that you need one?

What? You don't even have your sig line populated? WHAT IS YOUR STORY..You got NO STREET CRED ROADKILL!! DUDE
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She's nut's right now, I don't want her to take money from the account or doing anything else crazy. Your right, if she does that stuff, I can always file to get it stopped. I'll be wearing my bullet proof vest for a couple weeks.....just in case.

You don't need that vest. You have just become Superman to your kids and POSSIBLY your WW if she sobers up fast enough..DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/19/10 11:24 PM
Tell the banks she can't touch it without your permission.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 03:55 AM
1) Get a voice activated digital recorder. Keep it with you at all times. These are the times that women make up fake claims of abuse. Keep it handy in case she calls the cops, and if the does, keep it hidden and get her on tape admitting you did nothing, but she's going to get you thrown out anyway.

2) At least talk to a good divorce attorney and be well-advised of your rights and how to handle situations that may arise.

I would try and let exposure work its course first, but if you filed for divorce and full custody, as well a spousal support, your WW's fantasy affair would come crumbling down in a heartbeat. She doesn't want to lose her kids or her standard of living. If those are threatened, the affair will die quickly. Know that you have that in your back pocket in case you need to use it. I would try and plan A though for at least 3 good months.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She's nut's right now, I don't want her to take money from the account or doing anything else crazy. Your right, if she does that stuff, I can always file to get it stopped. I'll be wearing my bullet proof vest for a couple weeks.....just in case.

Her response is text book - crazy stuff - you would think she would be happy and willing to share her new happiness and joy with OM.

The anger shows you have hit a mighty blow. Facebook msgs is classic - great job.

Making the affair a bad place to be is only the beginning. Stay sharp and start Making the marriage and the home a good place to return to.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 02:12 PM
We'll see what happens. She comes home tomorrow, so it should be interesting. It's pretty funny to see the lack of support she has. Her family and freinds have been calling non stop offering support and even offering to submit letters stating they have observed the interation with the kids and I would be the more fit parent.....YIKES! Tough to get custody when you Mom, Dad sister and best freind all say your not fit to care for your own children. I was offered the new job yesterday and I called to tell her, but she wont return my calls. I sent an e-mail telling her the days I need to go out of town (if I take it) for training so we can adjust our schedules.....no response. It's one thing to be mad and not talk, but another to do this. In effect, she is guilty of abandonment. Although this whole thing is repulsive to me, I at least know I have support and family to fall back on.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 02:17 PM
I would line up someone else to take care of the kids while you're out of town, just in case she acts like a 2 year old.
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I was offered the new job yesterday and I called to tell her, but she wont return my calls. I sent an e-mail telling her the days I need to go out of town (if I take it) for training so we can adjust our schedules.....

Under no circumstance should you leave your house for overnight travel!

Screw that job for now!
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 02:19 PM
Good point. See if they can come with you.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 02:23 PM
I am glad you are digging in your heels 'Patriot', and it seems from those that have been there, done that, you are doing what is right, and she is reacting as they said she would.

The advise makes sense, she was having a blast, a dirty little secret, now, not so much. She KNOWS you are not playing around and you are taking action. I don't see how she has a chance with the kids, if she were really trying to do that.

While that new job seems good on the surface, I would agree that leaving your house now is not a good idea. I would worry about it myself.

I am praying for you and your family that this turns out ok.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 03:14 PM
Good job on exposure.

She is reading from the WW script with her threats of divorce. Don't even acknowledge them, it's just WW craziness.

I would not text her, call her, or answer either from her until she returns.

Leaving overnight would be a bad thing right now. Can you train locally?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 04:08 PM
There is no reason to not go for training for a few days. There is no ay that this can be construed as abandonment.

However WW's refusal to parent and discuss child care coverage is definately abandonment on her part.

So go to your training and have you parents watch the kids at their own home or yours whatever works best.

You need a job WW's do not respect stay at home dads.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 04:59 PM
Well, she called and it was UGLY!! I left plan A and went to plan Dude. She called and asked if I was done being crazy. I stuck to the script and said, I know you don't believe me, but I did it to save the marrige. She said "it had the opposite effect. He (OM) is pissed and I don't know what he's going to do. His freinds are all laughing at you and you look like a fool. All this did was drive me to him and by the way, the sex we had last night was the best ever. That was it. I never called her names or anything, but the guns came out. Told her she could have him. She can do whatever she wants, that in two months when she is done with this, she will look back and realize how F-ed up she was. I said I was willing to work on this, but you've gone to far. I said you can make it easy, or make it hard...your call. But you will not get your children, you will pay support, and I will make a decission that is in the best interest of the kids. If it means moving, so be it. Just get out of our lives. Leave me and the kids alone. Crawl back under your rock and continue with your little F-budddy. Her tone totally changed and she says "I'm sorry I said that, I am just angry". Really I said, how rich, your out banging some guy every other week and you're angry. I said you pushed and pushed and you had to know I was going to react. I said see if he is willing to put up with your crap. See if he's willing to care for your kids and all that. I said 6 months from now when your with him and your out traveling, what's he going to be thinking? What are you going to think when he's traveling? Your relationship is predicated upon a lie. It's immoral and wrong. That's a real solid foundation you have there. I told her to just go. That she made her decission, I'm moving ahead. I said in two months when this is all done and your alone and penniless, you'll realize how bad you F-ed up. Some people need to hit rock bottom before they can come back. I cannot remember the last time I lost it like that. Man it felt good. Maybe not Plan A, but sometimes you have to go with the moment. Her parents and sister have already had letters notorized and sent to me for the courts saying she is not fit to have the kids. Three of my neighbors (one an attorney) have also drafted letters along with her best freind, my sisters and my Mother all stating the same thing. Don't worry, she will not know about this. Tell you what though, her tone totally changed in the end.She even alsked if I still wanted a divorce...WTF! It may be over and so be it, but I will roll over no more. When she gets home I'll be nice, but enough is enough.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 05:08 PM
Ok, just one problem.

You just backed yourself into a corner and only have two choices.

1. Go see a lawyer and file for divorce/full custody right now.

2. Don't go file and look like a pansey in front of WW.

Back up what you said.

Originally Posted by patriot45
He (OM) is pissed and I don't know what he's going to do. His freinds are all laughing at you and you look like a fool. All this did was drive me to him and by the way, the sex we had last night was the best ever.
Typical WW fog babble.
OM is pissed at her, not you.
They probably did not have SF last night because OM was panicking.
And OM friends are laughing at him, not you.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Tell you what though, her tone totally changed in the end.She even alsked if I still wanted a divorce...WTF! It may be over and so be it, but I will roll over no more. When she gets home I'll be nice, but enough is enough.
OK, patriot, you hit the same place I did. Her original comment about you forcing her into OM's arms was typical waybabble. But I can certainly understand how you lost it.

The real question now is: how determined are you to move forward with Plan D? If you still have some thoughts about trying to recover your marriage you've pretty well driven a major sized spike into recovery opportunities. Not that they still can't be overcome, but understand your consequences for blowing up like you did.

I had a similar scene when The Leopard came to move her furniture and belongings out. That she was so petty and greedy on top of everything else I felt she had put me through, I couldn't take it any longer and let her have it with both barrels.

And that closed the door. 97% of me says (and knows) this is a good thing. But there's still a 3% part of me that wonders if it couldn't have gone another way.

What are you going to do now?
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, she called and it was UGLY!! I left plan A and went to plan Dude. She called and asked if I was done being crazy. I stuck to the script and said, I know you don't believe me, but I did it to save the marrige. She said "it had the opposite effect. He (OM) is pissed and I don't know what he's going to do. His freinds are all laughing at you and you look like a fool. All this did was drive me to him and by the way, the sex we had last night was the best ever. That was it. I never called her names or anything, but the guns came out. Told her she could have him. She can do whatever she wants, that in two months when she is done with this, she will look back and realize how F-ed up she was. I said I was willing to work on this, but you've gone to far. I said you can make it easy, or make it hard...your call. But you will not get your children, you will pay support, and I will make a decission that is in the best interest of the kids. If it means moving, so be it. Just get out of our lives. Leave me and the kids alone. Crawl back under your rock and continue with your little F-budddy. Her tone totally changed and she says "I'm sorry I said that, I am just angry". Really I said, how rich, your out banging some guy every other week and you're angry. I said you pushed and pushed and you had to know I was going to react. I said see if he is willing to put up with your crap. See if he's willing to care for your kids and all that. I said 6 months from now when your with him and your out traveling, what's he going to be thinking? What are you going to think when he's traveling? Your relationship is predicated upon a lie. It's immoral and wrong. That's a real solid foundation you have there. I told her to just go. That she made her decission, I'm moving ahead. I said in two months when this is all done and your alone and penniless, you'll realize how bad you F-ed up. Some people need to hit rock bottom before they can come back. I cannot remember the last time I lost it like that. Man it felt good. Maybe not Plan A, but sometimes you have to go with the moment. Her parents and sister have already had letters notorized and sent to me for the courts saying she is not fit to have the kids. Three of my neighbors (one an attorney) have also drafted letters along with her best freind, my sisters and my Mother all stating the same thing. Don't worry, she will not know about this. Tell you what though, her tone totally changed in the end.She even alsked if I still wanted a divorce...WTF! It may be over and so be it, but I will roll over no more. When she gets home I'll be nice, but enough is enough.


Ok, THIS IS WAR!! Her saying that sex remark is OVER THE TOP! Go to your attorney TODAY! Start the ball rolling, she will be begging you to back off this DIVORCE. F that B! DUDE
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 06:38 PM
I hear what you're saying, but there has to be a line that cannot be crossed. I disagree with being backed into a corner. I just got back from the attorneys office and she is in no position to bargin or thump her chest and make demands. She has been calling non stop since I talked to her. I understand what you all are saying about Plan A and all, but when you have someone that is that in your face with it and shows no remorse, they need a wake-up call. If it ends, so be it. I have the letters, I have my kids and I have my dignity. Nothing on my part will change when she gets back. I will be nice. I will not do anything disruptive. But the line has been drawn and it is what it is. She now knows it's real. I did tell her through all my anger that I meant what I told her about fixing it and that the kids and I are still here. But there comes a time when you need to look at the future and move in that direction. She's been absent for a long time and this is just the preverbial straw.
Posted By: RMX Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 06:38 PM

Agree with dude, you cant threaten D, you have to follow through.

You now run the risk of her filing first which might give her a advantage by getting some kind of court order in regards to the kids.

File, get a temporary custody order before she does.

Here are a few rules...

Never threaten, it limits your options
File first, you can always disolve/cancel the D petition.
Don't tell her what your plans are.


Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 06:46 PM
Take this horrible woman to the cleaners. She is a monster. No mercy.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:10 PM
I did not threatened a divorce. I told her if she wanted one, she could do it, but I am still here and trying to work on it. But there are limits. I am making plans to move ahead with my life. She now knows there are limits as to what can and will be tolorated. I never called her names. I never threatened, but I made it clear that I have options and I was not going to be used anymore. I told her I meant every word I said about trying to fix it. I told her I am a good person, a good father and a good husband. I said I may not be perfect, but I have never stepped out, I have never done anything to hurt this family and I have always supported you. I will have her diminish who or what I am. I made a sincere offer to change and try and fix things. I gave her space and time. I didn't blow up yesterday when she called angry. plan then so be it.I think this program is good, but there has to be some modifications for each personality and situation. We'll see what she says. Either way, I know I am making the best effort I can
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:11 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Take this horrible woman to the cleaners. She is a monster. No mercy.

Yes....NOW...NO MERCY!! That comment means NO FORGIVENESS..DUDE
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:15 PM
Woohoo...this is a man's post. I like it. Smackdown for another entitled WW.

Patriot. Follow through with the divorce. Not sure where you are but I'm in CA and it's a 6-month process. That's plenty of time to change things should it be necessary/possible. It sounds like the cards are heavily stacked in your favor and your losses will be minimal.

Also, remember that while an A is a horrible, horrible thing, most judges will ignore it when it comes time for custody decisions. I haven't read thru your thread, so I don't know if there are other things your WW has done that *would* sway a judge. But getting full custody is really, really hard for a man to do. Not impossible, but hard. Just stay cool and calm and do what you know to be right.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:18 PM
And that's why you read before posting...

OK, you are a stay-at-home dad. Good for you. Odds are your kids *adore* you. Awesome. Custody should then be a whole lot easier to get. And you can leach off her income in the process.

What's the time between filing for divorce and judgment in Texas?
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
And that's why you read before posting...

OK, you are a stay-at-home dad. Good for you. Odds are your kids *adore* you. Awesome. Custody should then be a whole lot easier to get. And you can leach off her income in the process.

What's the time between filing for divorce and judgment in Texas?

60 DAYS...
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 07:28 PM
Run out to The Shack (hee) RIGHT NOW and get a couple voice-activated recorders. Keep on one you at all times for at least the next week. All her A buddies will be coaching her to trick you or to call the cops and have YOU removed from the house for abuse. Keep the recorder going at all times and download the transcriptions daily!

I think she'll come back, and you'll get your marriage back, but this next week will be vital to do right, just in case she feels trapped and stuck in moving forward with OM. If she does that, she'll try to tear you up.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:09 PM
I hear ya about the recorder. Her freinds are telling her just the opposite, that she needs to figure things out. The phone here rings non stop with people who have called her. She is very defensive with everyone she talks to, saying how I have been distant and drove her to that point. This has all been such a whirlwind. The OM is (according to her) extremly angry and she said "I don't know what he's going to do" F-him. When she comes home tomorrow, we'll see what she's thinking. She has tried to call several times since we spoke, but I was to angry to pick-up. Her sister just called me and said she called her. Said she was very defensive at first, but then calmed down and was a little better. I really don't know what to expect tommorow.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I did not threatened a divorce. I told her if she wanted one, she could do it, but I am still here and trying to work on it.
Oh, I must have misunderstood.

In that case cary on, be firm, but don't make threats.

And remember, you can Opt-Out of you M at any time.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:15 PM
OM's anger is your ally. He is making you more attractive due to contrast effect.

Work that angle. Don't love-bust, don't get angry yourself, and you may make yourself look attractive enough that she realizes life with the OM will suck.

Keep working the exposure on his side if you like, anything to make the OM madder than heck! What else can you do to poke the hornet's nest into their little love nest?
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
The OM is (according to her) extremly angry
Yea, at her.

Originally Posted by patriot45
she said "I don't know what he's going to do"
He is going to quit the affair because it is no longer worth the damage it is doing to him
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:22 PM
pat 45 here are a few things to keep in mind and let her employer know. She is using employer funds in this affair by having her OM a the hotel when she is away on business because they most likely pay for her hotel, meals and at least some expenses. Tell your wife that she is living a fantacy wor;d because you are the one that is running the household and taking care of the childrens needs. That if she had the daily stress of normal life her OM probally would seam less atracted to her and vise versa. I think its time for an eye for an eye. Tell her you have scraped better than her from your zipper at 3 in the morning.
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:24 PM
Agree with Cat on the voice activated recorders. They can be solid gold if your WW goes nuts - look for PSUbiker's story; his VAR saved his bacon more than once. Put the other VAR in her car where she can't find it.

If you have any electronic evidence in the form of emails, chat transcripts, cell phone records and what-not, print them out and put them somewhere safe - like your attorney's office or your parents' home. WS's will sometimes go through a flurry of trying to cover their tracks, and electronic evidence is easy to destroy.

Did your attorney say anything about safeguarding the family finances? WS's have been known to drain checking accounts, 401k's, HELOC accounts, and the spare change jar...strong sense of entitlement y'know. If it's okay with your lawyer I would urge you to lock everything down or move the bulk of the assets to privately held accounts. It's a lot easier to have the funds and play defense than it is to be in the position of trying to get the funds back.

You may consider filing first. I've heard that lets you control the pace at which the proceedings go. You can always put it on hold to allow recovery time or dismiss it altogether. Also, as others have pointed out, don't threaten...because when you don't follow through they know you were just bluffing.

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:25 PM
Make your WW no longer worth OM's while. Hit him where it hurts. Use intellius or a PI and find his parents and siblings contact info. Contact all of them and tell them about the affair. If he comes from a decent family, they'll tell him to stop being a home-wrecker. Your WW would not be welcome at the family Thanksgiving dinner like she would have if they hadn't known. Make OM an outcast in his own family if he wants to continue to pursue this affair. This won't really withdraw love units from your wife, but it will probably cause conflict in the affair that will cause OM to withdraw love units from your WW. Put the heat on OM. Yes, your WW and OM don't work together, but maybe proper exposure to those in a small industry where a lot of people know each other will damage the affair. People don't like feeling judged, and if OM and WW feel like they are walking no one actually cares) will ruin the fantasy of the affair.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 08:25 PM
Then as DUDE SAYS BLOW HER WOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLAN D with no turning back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:05 PM
Second to exposing OM parents and it is a must to expose WW's job.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:07 PM
Pat,

OM is angry?? Hah! I am sure he is rolling his eyes thinking what the heck have gotten myself into. He will be gone real soon,...too much trouble.

OM is a low life puke that has seduced and is leading on a married woman. OM's friends must all be low lifes themselves IF they are all laughing at you. Which I seriously doubt.

Also WWs lie, so if your WW is speaking to you she is LYING to you. banghead dramaqueen Do not believe ANYTHING that is coming out of her mouth right now. And that means when she comes home tomorrow, too.

Your WW's parents, siblings, and good friends are all drafting notarized letters stating what a terrible mother she is plus calling her and telling her what they think. Sounds like your adulterous wife is a real piece of work. think think Not too many people have any good things to say to or about her.

A little traveling princess in her own little world. dramaqueen

If you had to write a notarized letter about her, what good points could you make?

Stay strong tomorrow. Stay calm and logical. Everything she says will be fogbabble. There is a resouce somewhere here on replying to fogbabble which can be very helpful for tomorrow.

You are on the high road. Stay rock solid for the kids.

imho

kirk
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, she called and it was UGLY!!

WSs are evil, and WWs are especially evil. However, it takes at least two persons to have a really ugly conversation. Here's a suggestion - the next time she starts up with the vindictive WW babble, TAKE CONTROL of the situation and end the conversation. A simple "I no longer wish to be part of this conversation" and hanging up the phone (or walking away if the conversation is face-to-face) should do the job.

Also, I echo some of the other suggestions made here. Protect your finances, and invest in a VAR or two. Your WW apparently has the knack for saying the most evil things; it may not take much for her to attempt to other things to hurt your situation (like filing false charges to have you thrown out of your own home).

Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by dsd
Then as DUDE SAYS BLOW HER WOLD UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLAN D with no turning back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, she KNEW there was no turning back w/ that "BEST SEX EVER BS!" BLOW THIS B UP! RIGHT NOW! She will lose you AND OM, I guarantee it. That comment is UNFORGIVEABLE. Your kids will not want you to take abuse like that, I'm certain when they are grown they will tell you they'd divorce the B too..DUDE
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:36 PM
Anyone that would go the "best sex ever" route is beyond help, IMO. Normal people know when not to cross certain lines. Once that genie re crticism of your adequacy is out of the bottle, you would need a lobotomy to get passed it.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:37 PM
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Yeah, she KNEW there was no turning back w/ that "BEST SEX EVER BS!" That comment is UNFORGIVEABLE.
You do understand it was also a lie don't you?

1. They weren't having sex because OM was panicking.
2. The sex more than likely sucked.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????

Yeah, see what the B's do when their MAN backhands them? No, your calendar is full, she can check back in a few days. Make that B sweat. Her OM is probably already dumping her. MAKE HER HIT ROCK BOTTOM. DOn't save her yet or she will betray you AGAIN down the road...DUDE
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:39 PM
Ask WW what for. To tell you why SF with the OM is the best ever.
I'm even venting for you.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Dude007
Yeah, she KNEW there was no turning back w/ that "BEST SEX EVER BS!" That comment is UNFORGIVEABLE.
You do understand it was also a lie don't you?

1. They weren't having sex because OM was pancaking.
2. The sex more than likely sucked.

Matters not of whether is true! ITS MATTERS THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO SAY IT! What MAN could take something like that and then say, hmmm, ok, come back home and everything will be fine. She crossed the LINE of no return. DUDE
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????

She's trying to get you back into the submissive husband role.

Make sure your next conversation isn't a nicey-nice sit down just the two of you. Get a mediator to observe that the rules of the game are followed.

She wants control back. She is not in a place to lay down conditions for any interaction.

I'd just reply back. "NOT HUNGRY"

Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????
A perfect opportunity to give her the Plan B letter.

BEFORE dinner.

Then you walk away.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????
No
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:48 PM
She may poison you. Insist on a food taster.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:48 PM
I would bet they was pounding each other!!!! People with morals like that dont care what is going on hundreds of miles away and also he s not married so he will tell her what ever she needs to pound out his satifaction then send her on the way untill the next chance to pound again. Whats its going to cost him her company pays everthing!!!!!!!!!!!!Send her to him perminently, Step up your game and catch a throphy
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called and wants to do a non confrontational, no conversation about affair dinner????
A perfect opportunity to give her the Plan B letter.

BEFORE dinner.

Then you walk away.

No, NO PLAN B,ITS TIME FOR PLAN (D)UDE!!!!!!!!! She CROSSED THE LINE! That M is OVER! DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:51 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Ask WW what for. To tell you why SF with the OM is the best ever.
I'm even venting for you.
lol
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:52 PM
Time for Plan F U .
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
No, NO PLAN B,ITS TIME FOR PLAN (D)UDE!!!!!!!!! She CROSSED THE LINE! That M is OVER! DUDE
*I* am in Plan D, Dude. It includes the darkest Plan B one can imagine.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
She may poison you. Insist on a food taster.
rotflmao
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:54 PM
Let me be clearer:

Agree to the dinner. Arrange to meet there.

Show up well-dressed, shaved and combed. Check for booby traps and sneak attacks.

Calmly hand her the Plan B letter.

Turn around and walk away.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:54 PM
Seriously, though, if you think you may consider saving the marriage, just be polite, take the high road, and say 'no thank you.'
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:55 PM
What is the plan b letter? Move out?
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Originally Posted by Zelmo
She may poison you. Insist on a food taster.
rotflmao

OR WORSE, she may REALLY HATE you and change all your SCREEN NAMES at all your favorites sites to ZELMO!! Thats horrid and noone deserves that! hehe DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
ITS MATTERS THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO SAY IT!
Simply the tantrums of a little child.

Originally Posted by Dude007
What MAN could take something like that and then say, hmmm, ok, come back home.
A man who is sexually confident in himself and his ability's. And knows how crazy a WW will act.

Don't get me wrong. That was a horrible, terrible thing to say. But it just wouldn't bother me because I know It's not true.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:57 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
What is the plan b letter? Move out?

DON'T MOVE OUT!! Go to your lawyers office MANANA! DUDE
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:57 PM
These are all options, and I totally understand the righteous anger.

But if you want to save the marriage, you PROTECT her from your well-deserved anger. State your requirements for recovery, honor them, do not recover without them, but it's possible to recover from horrible abuses in an affair.

The line was crossed when she began her affair. She's trying to hurt you, get you to react, find some way to justify her behavior by your behavior. It's possible to recover -- even likely, if the OM dumps her -- but the environment in which that can happen won't exist if you Love-Bust her into oblivion.

Protect yourself from her abuse. Plan B if you must, Plan D if you have to, but don't allow her to bait you into making you the excuse for her bad behavior.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Dude007
ITS MATTERS THAT SHE WAS WILLING TO SAY IT!
Simply the tantrums of a little child.

Originally Posted by Dude007
What MAN could take something like that and then say, hmmm, ok, come back home.
A man who is sexually confident in himself and his ability's. And knows how crazy a WW will act.

Don't get me wrong. That was a horrible, terrible thing to say. But it just wouldn't bother me because I know It's not true.

Ok, I'm w/ ya, but it still deserves the FINGER for saying it! DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Move out?
No, you do not move out.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 09:59 PM
On our "final day" (the day she moved her stuff out of the house), The Leopard resorted to all sorts of demeaning comments. Said she was going to tell "every woman in A.A." about my shortcomings, inadequacy, lack of size, etc. It was funny, actually.

I only responded that, since OM's prostate cancer surgery, at least I could still get it up...

You should have seen the look on her face. I couldn't tell if it was panic or some form of internal realization...
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:02 PM
PLAN DJ(Divorce Judge) Order your meal (have it brought in a to go box to your table,arrange this while going to the bathroom) when it comes to the table tell her plan FU and to pick up her stuff at a certain time and you ll see here at the DJ.Then leave her with the bill. Order VERY WELL.
Posted By: catperson Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:05 PM
Quote
Protect yourself from her abuse. Plan B if you must, Plan D if you have to, but don't allow her to bait you into making you the excuse for her bad behavior.
Just awesome. You are my MB hero, DONOMO.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:09 PM
PAT45 with your wife s job and her travles,if you could recover and forgive her would you want to have to relive wondering when she was going to find the best sex ever again. People with that screwed up of morals will do it again! they cant change enough to diserve you or your children
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Quote
Protect yourself from her abuse. Plan B if you must, Plan D if you have to, but don't allow her to bait you into making you the excuse for her bad behavior.
Just awesome. You are my MB hero, DONOMO.

He is exactly right. It is an effort to bait you.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:11 PM
I had some additional thoughts regarding a dinner.

Don't bring up the past. Don't bring up the affair. Just enjoy yourself at the dinner, but clearly state your requirements for recovery:

1. That she never see or speak to the other man again for the rest of her life.
2. That she commit to complete Radical Honesty with you.
3. That she commit to a marital recovery program of your choice.

If you can get this across -- show her there really is a way back -- without engaging in Love Busters, you'll plant a seed or possibly even negotiate an end to the affair right there. If the other man is getting hostile toward her, you start to look much more attractive.

My thought is that she's experiencing very strong contrast effect right now... and you actually ARE looking more attractive to her. The conflict in her affair is causing her to question her judgment.

If you can negotiate an end to the affair over dinner, though, don't agree to take her back right away. Plan to date for a while longer, for her to show you that she means business with reconciliation.

I know it sounds like a long shot, but with her relationship with OM on the rocks, you never know what will lift the fog long enough for her to do the right thing.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:25 PM
You might want to throw in lifelong, periodic STD testing and her funding an account for both the testing and random polygraphs in the future as additional requirements. Just a thought.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:36 PM
Well, the plot thickens. I just got a response from the OM sister and she contacted him. He told her he was under the impression that a seperation was imminent and that is why he got involved. She told me that he said the message came through and he was removing himself from the situation. This was yesterday she sent it, so that may explain the blow-up today. I had shut down my Facebook account, but she must have known my password and re-activated it, that's how I got the message. What the F is going on. I cannot imagine that it would work that fast. Now what?
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:37 PM
Patriot --

The balance of power has shifted to you. You were awesome.

Now she wants to get you "back on the farm" because she realizes that her lifestyle is about to change. She never meant to push you that far. Now she realizes that her big secret is out, everyone is looking at her, OM is in a frenzy, the affair is in shambles, and she is a traveling career woman who is about to lose her kids.

Nothing is pretty in her world. She needs to get you back in line taking care of the home front. She figured a truce would be nice.

I agree with the "not hungry" response.

Don't succumb to her manipulations. Stay in your power zone.
Right now you have the chance to lay down your conditions.

1. End the affair (in the textbook MB method...no contact letter approved and sent by you.)
2. Transparency (access to all passwords etc.)
3. MB counseling.
4. Open and Honest answers to everything you want to know.
5. Post nup.

Etc......what are YOUR conditions to continuing in this marriage?

And screw her "no conversation about affair" dinner. She doesn't get to make the rules....
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, the plot thickens. I just got a response from the OM sister and she contacted him. He told her he was under the impression that a seperation was imminent and that is why he got involved. She told me that he said the message came through and he was removing himself from the situation. This was yesterday she sent it, so that may explain the blow-up today. I had shut down my Facebook account, but she must have known my password and re-activated it, that's how I got the message. What the F is going on. I cannot imagine that it would work that fast. Now what?

NUCLEAR EXPOSURE IS AWESOME!!! Good job...Keep the power. She is gonna whine for you to please take her back. You set the conditions for her return w/ counseling w/ the Harley's etc. In about six months, she will defogg and break down into depression for what she has done to you and your family. Its up to you now. You have Man'd up and take control w/ the nuclear B SLAP! Feel good about yourself. Go have a beer or two and have a peaceful night. Don't talk to her. Let her sweat. Sleep well my friend..DUDE
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:46 PM
...but avoiding conversation about the affair is good for Love Bank balances. Make it a date, make it pleasant. I wouldn't break out the long list of requirements, but definitely come to an understanding about the wonderful -- but difficult -- changes the two of you must make to your marriage if there is to be hope. If it were me, I would offer her the bread crumb that I know we share equal responsibility for the conditions that led to her affair and that I'm willing to work on my part if she's willing to work on hers.

Working to bring back a wayward is a dance of thoughtful requests, respectful persuasion, and building a compatible, peaceful, satisfying relationship together. Go into interactions with the wayward with a plan, a goal, for every one. That plan is not to change the wayward, but to take control of the Love Bank balance for you in their hearts by acting in ways that reinforce that they should spend more time with you and care more about you.

What's your plan for dinner? Do you need to avoid it because your feelings are too raw to avoid Love Busters over dinner? Or could it be an opportunity to negotiate her return on the terms Dr. Harley recommends?
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:47 PM
I totally agree with DONOMO cool

This thread went from OH BOY she is coming home Thursday night to PLAN B and PLAN D AND PLAN DUDE AND PLAN FU faint faint

PAT, my friend, no over-reaction.naughty That she wants to sit down and experience your company could either mean, she is trying to gain the upper hand in the relationship again by putting you in your place (where ever that was before) OR to test the water and see you as you are now and what might be in store for her/you in the future.

And, come-on, give her a Plan B letter??? THEY LIVE TOGETHER! doh2 She TRAVELS and meets the OM, she doesn't LIVE with the low life.

Pat, this is all said thinking you want to rebuild the M and make it work if she is totally remorseful and wants it too.

If not, then do the plan D dealio.

imho

kirk
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:48 PM
DoNoMo is giving awesome advice.
Please listen.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:51 PM
And then you wait till she does it again. Why wont she, she has her life there and her life at home,free reigns on what and where. How would you ever be able to trust her it only take a wink and a smile for some to pound at a moments notice! Now that she is on her way home she is smoothing up the home front untill the wind blows up her skirt again. This has been going on for how long in plain veiw? She will learn from this and hide it better in the future!!!!!!! she nows that you accepted it with no actions that cost her anything so the only thing she has learned is to hide better the next time.On her way home she is probally promissing the OM that she just needs alittle more time to end it with you
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
DoNoMo is giving awesome advice.
Please listen.

I think he will take her back. He seems like a nice, level-headed guy who loves his kids dearly. I will leave the thread now to the marriage builder peeps. I just didn't want him to get ran over by her. Good luck PAT45!!

DUDE
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:52 PM
"No, NO PLAN B,ITS TIME FOR PLAN (D)UDE"

No,no, no, it's DUD(E) and he has just exposed. Time must be allowed for exposure to work. Also the remark by WW comparing SF is most likely said to get BH mad so he files for divorce so WW can say she did not end the marriage, BH did, he filed.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
...but avoiding conversation about the affair is good for Love Bank balances. Make it a date, make it pleasant. I wouldn't break out the long list of requirements, but definitely come to an understanding about the wonderful -- but difficult -- changes the two of you must make to your marriage if there is to be hope. If it were me, I would offer her the bread crumb that I know we share equal responsibility for the conditions that led to her affair and that I'm willing to work on my part if she's willing to work on hers.

Working to bring back a wayward is a dance of thoughtful requests, respectful persuasion, and building a compatible, peaceful, satisfying relationship together. Go into interactions with the wayward with a plan, a goal, for every one. That plan is not to change the wayward, but to take control of the Love Bank balance for you in their hearts by acting in ways that reinforce that they should spend more time with you and care more about you.

What's your plan for dinner? Do you need to avoid it because your feelings are too raw to avoid Love Busters over dinner? Or could it be an opportunity to negotiate her return on the terms Dr. Harley recommends?

Yes, but it may not be true that they both shared equally in the conditions that led to the affair. I would not say this unless you sincerely believe it, after doing some ananlysis.
In many cases, the qualities that led a psouse to cheat are the same qualities that made them primarily responsible for the poor conditon of the marriage. many a BS has been beating his/her head against a wall for years tryong to address pre-A problems, to no avail.
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by krusht
That she wants to sit down and experience your company could either mean, she is trying to gain the upper hand in the relationship again by putting you in your place (where ever that was before) OR to test the water and see you as you are now and what might be in store for her/you in the future.

My favorite quotes in these kinds of situations: "Hope for the best, but plan for the worst," and "Assume goodwill unless demonstrated otherwise".

I'll reiterate to come up with a plan for the interaction. A date is a great opportunity to have some undivided attention, deposit love units, and exploit contrast effect to your advantage even as the betrayed spouse. If you can just keep a tight hold on your demands, disrespect, and anger, it can be a transforming experience.

Just don't bring up the affair. Plan conversation topics that you know will interest her. Don't bring up the affair unless she does, and then remind her you wish to not discuss it unless she intends to separate herself permanently from the other man. Everything else is predicated on that, and if she agrees and follows through on that, you can follow the plan in the book "Surviving An Affair" to negotiate Extraordinary Precautions, live transparently, meet each other's needs, avoid love busters, etc.

Everything depends upon a willingness to separate from the other man. If she's willing, you're cooperative; if not, don't talk about it.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"No, NO PLAN B,ITS TIME FOR PLAN (D)UDE"

No,no, no, it's DUD(E) and he has just exposed. Time must be allowed for exposure to work. Also the remark by WW comparing SF is most likely said to get BH mad so he files for divorce so WW can say she did not end the marriage, BH did, he filed.

WOW, I got the big E, usually is DUD(e)...Thank for that TheRUG...DUDE
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by dsd
And then you wait till she does it again. Why wont she, she has her life there and her life at home,free reigns on what and where. How would you ever be able to trust her it only take a wink and a smile for some to pound at a moments notice!


This isn't MarriageBuilding advice. Dr. Harley addresses how to rebuild trust in a relationship in his books and courses. If the marriage is rebuilt using the right principles, and extraordinary precautions are put in place to prevent recidivism with the current OM or any future ones, there's a very good chance this will have been the last affair.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 10:59 PM
She just called. Wanted to speak with the kids. I said they were outside and she said I'll call later and hung up. I have no idea what's happening. If he did like his sister said, it was before last night.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted by dsd
And then you wait till she does it again. Why wont she, she has her life there and her life at home,free reigns on what and where. How would you ever be able to trust her it only take a wink and a smile for some to pound at a moments notice!


This isn't MarriageBuilding advice. Dr. Harley addresses how to rebuild trust in a relationship in his books and courses. If the marriage is rebuilt using the right principles, and extraordinary precautions are put in place to prevent recidivism with the current OM or any future ones, there's a very good chance this will have been the last affair.

Agreed. Lets give the builders a chance. Pat45 can call in the DOGS(DUDES) if she turns out to really be a ho and he needs to know how to blow her world up!

DUDE
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:03 PM
"WOW, I got the big E, usually is DUD(e)..."

No usually it's Dud(e).
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:05 PM
If you eventually do try and recover your marriage, your WW is going to have to get a different job where she doesn't travel. She can never be trusted again to stay somewhere overnight without you around. I'm sure lots of travel contributed to her withdrawal. There simply isn't enough time together to spend 15 hours of undivided attention meeting each other's ENs, and there are no safeguards for protecting the marriage from outsiders.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:07 PM
Just some suggestions for possible discussion topics that are not related to the affair:
Tiger Woods and his future.
Elliot Spitzer's new job teaching college.
John Edward's insisitence on weraing a 70's style haircut.
Rudy Guilliani's term as mayor of New York.
Vikes thrashing of the Cowboys.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:07 PM
DOORMAT what you say is very true and I believe in the MB program. That said, it take someone that qualify s for the program NOT everyone fits. I think for her to put this in front of his nose and ***edit*** is just to low of a standard to start with the program. Has she always been this way I bet not or PAT45 would nt of married her. I would say that this isnt her first affair ***edit***
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"WOW, I got the big E, usually is DUD(e)..."

No usually it's Dud(e).

Oh, THANKS! TheRUG...Hope you aren't bald and/or wear a toupe!!!! hehe DUDE
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
If you eventually do try and recover your marriage, your WW is going to have to get a different job where she doesn't travel. She can never be trusted again to stay somewhere overnight without you around.


QFT. Probably not the best topic to cover over dinner, but very true. In fact, the example of Jon & Sue in "Surviving An Affair" cover a similar problem, and Dr. Harley outlines several possible solutions that don't include quitting the job. But all of them include as much contact with one another as possible even if either spouse spends time away...
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:11 PM
Originally Posted by dsd
That said, it take someone that qualify s for the program NOT everyone fits.


I disagree. If the couple scrupulously follows the rules of protection, time, care, and honesty, combined with exclusive needs-meeting, I believe any marriage can thrive.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Just some suggestions for possible discussion topics that are not related to the affair:
Tiger Woods and his future.
Elliot Spitzer's new job teaching college.
John Edward's insisitence on weraing a 70's style haircut.
Rudy Guilliani's term as mayor of New York.
Vikes thrashing of the Cowboys.

That last one..You a$$...DUDE
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
Originally Posted by dsd
That said, it take someone that qualify s for the program NOT everyone fits.


I disagree. If the couple scrupulously follows the rules of protection, time, care, and honesty, combined with exclusive needs-meeting, I believe any marriage can thrive.

I do not beleive it can work with a disordered spouse. Otherwise, it is fine.
As far as this particular woman's suitability, I agree , her comment about the "best sex ever" warrants some research into a personality disorder.
Posted By: dsd Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:19 PM
DOORMAT I will have to disagree some dont have what it take to follow the program. If only it was that easy to follow oaths and promises most would never be here because they would fix it themselfs or with each other with the help of ALL the resources available. DUDE said it the best if one follows there promise before god, the law and other we would nt have this problem
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by dsd
DOORMAT I will have to disagree some dont have what it take to follow the program. If only it was that easy to follow oaths and promises most would never be here because they would fix it themselfs or with each other with the help of ALL the resources available. DUDE said it the best if one follows there promise before god, the law and other we would nt have this problem

I love to be quoted..It makes my heart warm...DUDE
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/20/10 11:41 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
her comment about the "best sex ever" warrants some research into a personality disorder.
rotflmao

No it doesn't.
My H said the same thing.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Zelmo
her comment about the "best sex ever" warrants some research into a personality disorder.
rotflmao

No it doesn't.
My H said the same thing.
As did mine (to a degree). But where mine differed was in other areas: multiple marriages, no regrets, no remorse, no empathy -- and that's just about leaving her kids...
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 12:15 AM
patriot45

WW will have to amongst other things get a job without travel.

Do you suspect any previous affairs? Then maybe maybe a polygraph is in order?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 01:21 AM
She just called and she is still very pissed about the exposure thing. I don't know if he is still involved or not, I would assume so. I have about reached the end of my rope with this. I have no idea how people can spend months with waiting, or dealing with this. I am just not sure with everything else (spending and the insult) that I can move past. If I TRUELY thought she could change, maybe, but im not convinced. I know that she hasen't always been this person and I'm not sure it's worth waiting to find out. You're right about the personality disorder. All of us agree that this behavior is WAY out there. The spending and this. Also the fact that she is absent from the kids. What is also coming out is her resentment that I'm home. That's the kicker. I was the bread winner before we moved and I moved for her because she had such a good offer. Now, it's hard to find work and she makes comments about the income and how she has to work so hard to support the family. If she didn't spend it all on herself, we would be fine. I don't know. I'm tired of the fight and like I said I'm not sure it's worth it. All my freinds and family say divorce. I know what is said about a "fog" and all, but I think this is more than that. I think, even if this ends, there will be another, that she is constantly going to be looking for "more". I am 100% sure that in very short time, she will be sorry and wish this had never happened. Then it's to late. Maybe she needs to reach bottom before she can fix herself.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 01:43 AM
Patriot,

I am surely not one of the pros but I've been hanging around here for a few years and DH and I are currently more than 2 1/2 years into R and we have a good M and have renewed love and respect in spite of occasional ups and downs.

I don't see anything wrong if you decide to deliver a Plan B letter at your dinner date. Your WW seems to have no respect for you and you had the best result with her when you let loose on her. Preserve what little love you have left for her and let her know what you require from her in order to continue to work on the M beginning with a NC letter.

I believe that this is a wonderful program but I have seen how Dr H's advice sometimes varies according to personality. There are parts of this plan that would have destroyed my M and I am glad that I did not have to employ them, other parts were our salvation.

You are in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say

Posted By: manofth3year4569 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 01:43 AM
What is also coming out is her resentment that I'm home. That's the kicker. I was the bread winner before we moved and I moved for her because she had such a good offer.




wow...
Posted By: HerPapaBear Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:27 AM
Hi Patriot,

If you're interested in saving your M I would recommend that you work a stellar Plan A for a period of time of 3 to 6 months prior to going in to plan B.

If you don't have the fortitude to do this then just file for divorce and save yourself the trouble.


You have only been on MB a few weeks and are already deviating from the MB program of how to survive an affair.

Rule number one; Never listen to anything that comes out of an active waywards mouth. It's ALL fog babble! You cannot have a logical discussion with deluded wayward, so stop trying

Rule number two; Control all your Love Busters! You are the only one who can control what comes out of your mouth. You are 100% responsible for your own LB's

The goal of Plan A is to demonstrate that you have the ability to provide EXCEPTIONAL CARE. Can you do this?

Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:58 AM
Pat,

Ok I have been reading along and keeping my mouth shut, but it is time to get serious here. While it is natural for folks especially people who KNOW LITTLE about relationships and how to modify them to yell "BURN the W(B)itch at the stake." It is foolhardy to do this now.

It is time for YOU to calm down. It is time for YOU to get a grip. There is no way in God's Green Earth that you can make a decision in the emotional state you are in. If you expect your entitled WW to turn on a dime with exposure you are NUTS!!!

Do you hear me???? YOU ARE NUTS!!! It won't happen. She knew you knew and she did it anyway, you cannot possible be silly enough to think her mind will change in a day or so. You just cannot be that silly.

What you have most likely done is end the affair. That is the purpose of exposure. Ending the affair is NOT recovery, it is just something that MUST happen before recovery can even be considered.

And that brings me to the MB part of this. Harley and most of the vet here KNOW that not all marriages must be saved or should be saved. What Harley proposed was that more could be saved if people took their time and did things in a calm, planned fashion. That included evaluation, discussion, and searching of ones soul.

That is what you should be doing now. Calm down, relax. and let the dust settle. You can afford to do this because:

1. You are right.

2. You have a strong case for keeping the children.

3. You now have a job.

4. She is flat wrong in everything she has said and done.

This is NOW YOUR BALL GAME and she MUST PLAY BY YOUR RULES OR LOSE.

When you have dinner you WILL talk about the affair, what else is there. When you have your dinner, you will calmly state YOUR plans and your decision points and your boundaries. No threats, no if you don't I will..., just state them. It puts the ball in her court.

If she just had the greatest sex since the beginning of mankind, then invite her to continue after the divorce. If she feels she is being mistreated point out that others including you don't see it that way, perhaps she should reevaluate her behavior. If she wants to think about saving this marriage she is going to have to come up with a plan that YOU are comfortable with.

In short, you CALMLY, QUIETLY, and CLEARLY state your thoughts. If she even starts to raise her voice, leave her and go home.

You have seen a lawyer, see him again and consider a RO so if she cannot control herself around you or the kids she is out.

You may decide to leave her and it sounds from what you said, you should take the kids with you. BUT, you should do this with a calm, clear, and focussed mind.

The BURN THE WITCH AT THE STAKE chants are not to your benefit. They are not part of MB, and they will leave you with a lot of baggage you will need to set down no matter which decision you make.

I will tell you in honesty, the sex comment would hurt but I could get over it. The way she has treated the kids (I mean her own parents have signed notarized letters to the effect that she is a bad mother) that is HARD to forgive.

You have a lot of thinking to do, but calm down. And as for OM, are you really worried about that loser??? Come on now, the low life lives under beds for Gosh sakes.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:50 AM
JL

Good post and timely. Got home late - too many 12 hr days with many firedrills. Alot sure has happened today.

Pat - step away a bit from the drama. Never make a life changing decision with so much leftover emotion.

As for the Plan FU - shld only be used once. You did get some zingers in and cleared the fog a bit but continue to LB will make the marriage and the family too difficult.

Here is my reasoning where your single Plan FU had good shock value.

Even though I think you are man's man for making the sacrifice for your wife's career and stay at home to take care of kiddos, woman generally will lose respect for their husband not working over time.

Add comments she may have received from co-workers and perhaps her OM about this scenario. Over time - she may think you must have masculinity issues.

Unfortunately even in our PC society, a SAHM is held in higher regard then that of a SAHD - I mean he must have a genetic defect, or no self-respect or no drive or he is lazy. Make sense?

So your Plan FU was timely after that shot she gave you (she was testing you)- you regained your masculinity in her eyes.

I dont recall in this stitch that you have any history of anger issue for disrespectful judgements so I dont think this instance of Plan FU was harmful. I do wonder if being a doormat after that comment would have been wise.

Today yoi took the reigns of power. It is up to you how you wield it. Also - now you need to think before talking. Much work to be done if you are up to R. There is no sure outcome because as you know - you cannot control her and she will need to make her own decision.

Just to add:

Perhaps a call into the Harleys for some coaching. Forget MC or IC - coaching through these rapids and understanding the dynamics of her affair is your best bet. At best we use our experience and assumptions on your marriage when offering our opinions.

Dont take the SAHD comments wrong way - every father and mother should prioritize spouse and family before their job and career.

Make the affair not a good place.
Make the marriage a better place to return to
Make the marriage difficult and costly to leave.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:51 AM
Pat,
I gotta tell you, I agree with JL 100% here.



This is not a sprint but rather, a marathon. It's going to take long and hard work to recover this M if you are so inclined to do so. The "kick um to the curb crowd" will always be around this forum but, JL is correct. This is not MB or Dr Harley's philosophy.

Actually, not having been through this himself, he finds himself astonihed that any M can survive infidelity and readily admits, that he does not believe he could do it himself. Pretty astonishing from the author of this site, don't you think.

Dr. H admits that the best prediction is that about 15% of all M's will be able to survive this, in spite of his program. He also has the best record anywhere with achieving just that. If I were in busines and the best sucess rate I had was 15%, I would throw in the towel. But he hasn't and refuses to do so. I think that alone, speaks volumes about his dedication.

He also emphasizes that the path to R is a VERY NARROW PATH, with no room for deviation.

Your upcoming choice(and it is essentiallly your choice at this point) is to consider if you could find it in yourself and your M to become part of the 15% winners or the 85% rest.

For the sake of your family, your children, and your faithfulness to your God, I do truly hope you do not let your anger destroy something that may be quite possible for you to salvage.

It will most certainly take your wife's repentance and your extended ability to find love in your heart where you had no idea in the past how to find it!! It's pretty extrodinary actually.

I pray for your marriage.

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: rc2009 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 06:16 AM
Originally Posted by rwinger
Make the affair not a good place.
Make the marriage a better place to return to
Make the marriage difficult and costly to leave.


There is a saying from a famous horse trainer (Ray Hunt) that I think applies here.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard"

Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 06:21 AM
Originally Posted by rc2009
Originally Posted by rwinger
Make the affair not a good place.
Make the marriage a better place to return to
Make the marriage difficult and costly to leave.


There is a saying from a famous horse trainer (Ray Hunt) that I think applies here.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard"


bingo

the whole point of the carrot and stick of Plan A.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 12:07 PM
Originally Posted by Just Learning
Pat,

Ok I have been reading along and keeping my mouth shut, but it is time to get serious here. While it is natural for folks especially people who KNOW LITTLE about relationships and how to modify them to yell "BURN the W(B)itch at the stake." It is foolhardy to do this now.

It is time for YOU to calm down. It is time for YOU to get a grip. There is no way in God's Green Earth that you can make a decision in the emotional state you are in. If you expect your entitled WW to turn on a dime with exposure you are NUTS!!!

Do you hear me???? YOU ARE NUTS!!! It won't happen. She knew you knew and she did it anyway, you cannot possible be silly enough to think her mind will change in a day or so. You just cannot be that silly.

What you have most likely done is end the affair. That is the purpose of exposure. Ending the affair is NOT recovery, it is just something that MUST happen before recovery can even be considered.

And that brings me to the MB part of this. Harley and most of the vet here KNOW that not all marriages must be saved or should be saved. What Harley proposed was that more could be saved if people took their time and did things in a calm, planned fashion. That included evaluation, discussion, and searching of ones soul.

That is what you should be doing now. Calm down, relax. and let the dust settle. You can afford to do this because:

1. You are right.

2. You have a strong case for keeping the children.

3. You now have a job.

4. She is flat wrong in everything she has said and done.

This is NOW YOUR BALL GAME and she MUST PLAY BY YOUR RULES OR LOSE.

When you have dinner you WILL talk about the affair, what else is there. When you have your dinner, you will calmly state YOUR plans and your decision points and your boundaries. No threats, no if you don't I will..., just state them. It puts the ball in her court.

If she just had the greatest sex since the beginning of mankind, then invite her to continue after the divorce. If she feels she is being mistreated point out that others including you don't see it that way, perhaps she should reevaluate her behavior. If she wants to think about saving this marriage she is going to have to come up with a plan that YOU are comfortable with.

In short, you CALMLY, QUIETLY, and CLEARLY state your thoughts. If she even starts to raise her voice, leave her and go home.

You have seen a lawyer, see him again and consider a RO so if she cannot control herself around you or the kids she is out.

You may decide to leave her and it sounds from what you said, you should take the kids with you. BUT, you should do this with a calm, clear, and focussed mind.

The BURN THE WITCH AT THE STAKE chants are not to your benefit. They are not part of MB, and they will leave you with a lot of baggage you will need to set down no matter which decision you make.

I will tell you in honesty, the sex comment would hurt but I could get over it. The way she has treated the kids (I mean her own parents have signed notarized letters to the effect that she is a bad mother) that is HARD to forgive.

You have a lot of thinking to do, but calm down. And as for OM, are you really worried about that loser??? Come on now, the low life lives under beds for Gosh sakes.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Yeah! What JL said. Finally the voice of freakin reason!
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Patriot,

I am surely not one of the pros but I've been hanging around here for a few years and DH and I are currently more than 2 1/2 years into R and we have a good M and have renewed love and respect in spite of occasional ups and downs.

I don't see anything wrong if you decide to deliver a Plan B letter at your dinner date. Your WW seems to have no respect for you and you had the best result with her when you let loose on her. Preserve what little love you have left for her and let her know what you require from her in order to continue to work on the M beginning with a NC letter.

I believe that this is a wonderful program but I have seen how Dr H's advice sometimes varies according to personality. There are parts of this plan that would have destroyed my M and I am glad that I did not have to employ them, other parts were our salvation.

You are in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say


He needs to BLAST her to garner her RESPECT. I'd walk up to than table w/ a Plan D in hand and plan FU w/ the other hand. Follow through w/ it. Then, after he has protected himself and his children from this wreckless B, let her hit ROCK BOTTOM, maybe they can talk reconciliation. NOT BEFORE, she has gone WAY TOO FAR! He needs to protect his SANITY now! DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:32 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I do not beleive it can work with a disordered spouse. Otherwise, it is fine.
It depends on the spouse's history. If she has a long history of wacky unstable behavior, then yea...It may be a pointless to even try.

If the wacky unstable behavior started with the affair, well thats normal for a wayward.

I have never seen an "Ordered/Stable Wayward"

In fact I think almost all waywards show the symptoms of someone with BP-II in a manic phase.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Zelmo
her comment about the "best sex ever" warrants some research into a personality disorder.
rotflmao

No it doesn't.
My H said the same thing.
My FWW did not say that.
But she did say she hated me.
Had wasted her life with me.
That I was the worst husband ever.
Never wanted to see me again.
Was glad I was in pain because I deserved it.
Bla, Bla, Bla
Etc, Etc, Etc

I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:34 PM
"I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted."

Worth repeating.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
He needs to BLAST her to garner her RESPECT. I'd walk up to than table w/ a Plan D in hand and plan FU w/ the other hand. Follow through w/ it. Then, after he has protected himself and his children from this wreckless B, let her hit ROCK BOTTOM, maybe they can talk reconciliation. NOT BEFORE, she has gone WAY TOO FAR! He needs to protect his SANITY now! DUDE
What you would do is irrelevant.
What Pat wants to do (A,B or D) is what is at hand.

Plan-DUDE is not a part of MB
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
I have never seen an "Ordered/Stable spouse"
banghead.
I meant "Ordered/Stable Wayward" rotflmao
And I fixed it in the above post.
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
the sex we had last night was the best ever. That was it.

Game stopper. F her.

That's one you'll spend a lifetime hearing over and over in your head.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I do not beleive it can work with a disordered spouse. Otherwise, it is fine.
It depends on the spouse's history. If she has a long history of wacky unstable behavior, then yea...It may be a pointless to even try.

If the wacky unstable behavior started with the affair, well thats normal for a wayward.

I have never seen an "Ordered/Stable Wayward"

In fact I think almost all waywards show the symptoms of someone with BP-II in a manic phase.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by Zelmo
her comment about the "best sex ever" warrants some research into a personality disorder.
rotflmao

No it doesn't.
My H said the same thing.
My FWW did not say that.
But she did say she hated me.
Had wasted her life with me.
That I was the worst husband ever.
Never wanted to see me again.
Was glad I was in pain because I deserved it.
Bla, Bla, Bla
Etc, Etc, Etc

I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted.

I would think that one of the hardest parts about recovering with someone capable of saying things like this, would be ever having respect again for the person. She has demonstrated that she will say and do things that normal, moral people would never do or say. It would be like trusting Ted Bundy around your kids, IMO.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted."

Worth repeating.

Yes, except this is no child. She does not have the youth excuse. This is who she truly is.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted."

Worth repeating.

Yes, except this is no child. She does not have the youth excuse. This is who she truly is.

I'm concerned that so many BHs on here are actually saying this B deserves a MB plan A. I've met many WW on here who deserve a plan A. A chance to save their A$$. This cruel and thoughtless B has lost her GD mind. BREAK HER!!

DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I would think that one of the hardest parts about recovering with someone capable of saying things like this, would be ever having respect again for the person.
Unlike you, I have said a lot of things to a lot of people out of anger and frustration that I did not mean and later regretted. If I cant look past such obvious wayward outbursts from her, how can I expect those who I have done the same too, to overlook my own indiscretions?


Originally Posted by Zelmo
She has demonstrated that she will say and do things that normal, moral people would never do or say.
Just like every, single, other wayward, in history, does. All waywards say hurtful things they do not mean and later regret. Thats just how waywards roll
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I would think that one of the hardest parts about recovering with someone capable of saying things like this, would be ever having respect again for the person.
Unlike you, I have said a lot of things to a lot of people out of anger and frustration that I did not mean and later regretted. If I cant look past such obvious wayward outbursts from her, how can I expect those who I have done the same too, to overlook my own indiscretions?


Originally Posted by Zelmo
She has demonstrated that she will say and do things that normal, moral people would never do or say.
Just like every, single, other wayward, in history, does. All waywards say hurtful things they do not mean and later regret. Thats just how waywards roll

Sorry to hear that, Gack. Have you addressed this proclivity?

No, not all WS say things like this. the sexaul adequacy allusion. I would bet very few of the WWs here went down that road.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I would think that one of the hardest parts about recovering with someone capable of saying things like this, would be ever having respect again for the person.
Unlike you, I have said a lot of things to a lot of people out of anger and frustration that I did not mean and later regretted. If I cant look past such obvious wayward outbursts from her, how can I expect those who I have done the same too, to overlook my own indiscretions?


Originally Posted by Zelmo
She has demonstrated that she will say and do things that normal, moral people would never do or say.
Just like every, single, other wayward, in history, does. All waywards say hurtful things they do not mean and later regret. Thats just how waywards roll

Sorry to hear that, Gack. Have you addressed this proclivity?

No, not all WS say things like this. the sexaul adequacy allusion. I would bet very few of the WWs here went down that road.

Why not start a thread and ASK? I bet not ONE fWW on here will say they said that, NONE. BREAK THIS B! DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Yes, except this is no child. She does not have the youth excuse. This is who she truly is.
Or it could be the fogged out, idiotic, thinking of a wayward.
One would have to know her and her history to determine that

Originally Posted by Dude007
I'm concerned that so many BHs on here are actually saying this B deserves a MB plan A. I've met many WW on here who deserve a plan A. A chance to save their A$$. This cruel and thoughtless B has lost her GD mind. BREAK HER!!

DUDE
I don't think she or any other wayward Deserve anything but pain and a stint under the karma bus. However, the BH is the only one that can decide what path he wants to take. If he choses recovery and forgiveness, then that is his choice. If he choses Plan-D/FU, I support it 100%, that is his right. But, this BH has not stated he wants to go Plan-D/FU, so until then the prudent course of action would be to follow the MB plans.

Don't you think?
Posted By: Enlightened_Ex Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:32 PM
Love is not about giving someone what they deserve, but meeting their needs.

Plan A is not about what someone deserves, it's about demonstrating what the marriage COULD be.

Plan B is about demonstrating what divorce could be like.

The WW then chooses.

It's not about deserving, it's about showing a couple of different potential outcomes to the crisis.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Why not start a thread and ASK? I bet not ONE fWW on here will say they said that, NONE. BREAK THIS B! DUDE
Go for it.
Just keep it non specific, and avoid any personal attacks so the mods don't lock it. hurray

And I would include FWW and FWH in it.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:34 PM
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
Love is not about giving someone what they deserve, but meeting their needs.

Plan A is not about what someone deserves, it's about demonstrating what the marriage COULD be.

Plan B is about demonstrating what divorce could be like.

The WW then chooses.

It's not about deserving, it's about showing a couple of different potential outcomes to the crisis.

I can see MAYBE plan B, but A? After that comment. NOPE! I predict he does NOT do a plan A. We'll see who is right..DUDE
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Enlightened_Ex
Plan A is not about what someone deserves, it's about demonstrating what the marriage COULD be.
That's a bit disingenuous. Plan A requires the BS become 100% Giver and 0% Taker. This is why there is a time limit on Plan A; no one can be 100% Giver all the time.

In my opinion, Plan A is designed to highlight the best parts of the marriage, not what it could be.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Sorry to hear that, Gack. Have you addressed this proclivity?


Main Entry: pro�cliv�i�ty
Pronunciation: \prō-ˈkli-və-tē\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural pro�cliv�i�ties
Etymology: Latin proclivitas, from proclivis sloping, prone, from pro- forward + clivus slope � more at pro-, declivity
Date: circa 1591
: an inclination or predisposition toward something; especially : a strong inherent inclination toward something objectionable

synonyms see leaning


I do not believe I have a predisposition or inherent inclination toward such outbursts. Typically these happened wile under tremendous stress and very unusual circumstances that most people never experience, and I lashed out due to it.

Stress can impair your judgment, it does not mean you have a disorder.


Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 04:52 PM
I would not go the stress excuse route, Gack, if you are lashing out at folks. If you examine most peoples' lives, you will find that we are all under stress. Abusive folks go this excuse route , all the time.
If you are consitently lashing out while "under stress", you need to fix it, IMO.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:03 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
If you are consitently lashing out while "under stress", you need to fix it, IMO.
Who said constantly?
I was talking about a few isolated incident's over my adult life.

You are one of the very few people I have ever heard of that eludes to having never lashed out inappropriately in there life.

Same thing with waywards, if the craziness did not start until the affair, and there is a long track record of stability before the affair. Then the craziness is probably a symptom, and not the cause.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:05 PM
I know of many such people, Gack. Adults, not kids. No one is perfect, but lashing out while under stress is messed up.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I know of many such people, Gack. Adults, not kids. No one is perfect, but lashing out while under stress is messed up.
Well maybe myself and those around me are just kids.

I don't want to grow, I want to be a toys-R-us kid. Theres a million things at toys-R-us that I can play with.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:24 PM
Gack

There are people here that feel it's there duty to punish WW's.
Doesn't matter that their not even their own WW's.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
I know of many such people, Gack. Adults, not kids. No one is perfect, but lashing out while under stress is messed up.
Well maybe myself and those around me are just kids.

I don't want to grow, I want to be a toys-R-us kid. Theres a million things at toys-R-us that I can play with.

Just don't throw your toys at your playmates when you get stressed.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 06:39 PM
Well,things have changed BIG time. She called about 6 this morning. Seems her and OM had a big blow out last night. He became abusive and started cussing at her and she at him and it turned into some big altercation. She was all crying and everything saying what have I done, I've thrown my life away and so on. She is flying home this afternoon and wanted me to fly up and get her. I took it all in stride and I looked for a flight, but nothing that would get me there before she was scheduled to leave. She has been on the phone all morning with me, just going on and on about re-connecting and how this was crazy and a mistake. She gave (offered) me her phone password, her credit card password and e-mails. He has contacted her several times today (text), each time she calls me and tells me and forwards her response. She told him that it's over. That she was going home to try and save her marriage if her husband would have her. She asked him not to contact her and she would not be contacting him again. I know, how do I know there is not something else.....I don't? but it's a start. I know and she knows she is going to feel for him for a while and steps are being taken (passwords and monotoring) that will be necessary for a while. She offered these things (before I could ask) so I can only wait and see. It's a long row to hoe, but it's a start. Like I said in my initial blog, I have never used a discussion forum before, but you all have been the best. I never would have thought about exposure and am blown away at the effect and how quickly it worked. My thanks to all for the great advise and support.He is evidently totally pissed and wanted nothing to do with the drama. Don't worry, I know that there is the possibility of a relapse and I need to be aware, but at least he (perhaps temporarily) is out of the picture. I turned down that job, but I have a couple more that are promising and would be more "family friendly". Now the real work begins.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
He is evidently totally pissed and wanted nothing to do with the drama.
I told you.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Gack

There are people here that feel it's there duty to punish WW's.
Doesn't matter that their not even their own WW's.

Whatever, we obviously broke her. Glad you kicked off of Legs thread. She got tired of your same old lame recording w/ no THINKING involved. DUDE
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
we obviously broke her.
Oh boy banghead
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:27 PM
@patriot45,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in again.

When she comes back, you have just one job: be the husband she needs.

* PROTECT HER from your anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later." Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* PROTECT YOURSELF from her anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later. Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* MEET HER NEEDS, particularly affection and conversation, by asking "How can I help you?" and "How do you feel if...?" questions, as well as demonstrating physical affection and finding ways to show her you are always thinking about her.

* INVITE HER TO MEET YOUR NEEDS using thoughtful requests and respectful persuasion. Frame each request or persuasion attempt in your mind using "How would you feel about..." or "I'd love it if..." questions/statements that avoid use of the word "YOU" anywhere in them. Think "I'd love it if we could find a way to meet my need for openness & honesty together", or "How would you feel about taking a few days off work so we can be together?" Don't expect a lot of results for several weeks or months, though, until her addiction wears off.

* SPEND UNINTERRUPTED TIME TOGETHER, a bare minimum of 15 hours per week (but shoot for 30!). Ensure during this time you are giving one another undivided attention without distractions. This may mean booking flights together if she goes out of town from now on (and finding a nanny), or coming to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement of a change in her job responsibilities to avoid spending overnights away from you ever again.

* BE HONEST with her about your feelings in a non-judgmental way. "I'm sad today because I'm thinking about all that has happened" or "I am happy you are home."

* REWARD HER HONESTY by learning to say "Thank you for being honest" while not allowing yourself to become defensive even if her honesty sounds accusatory. Do not interrupt to correct her, and practice expressing how her accusations make you feel rather than stating why they are wrong.

* ESTABLISH EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to prevent recidivism, as recommended in "Surviving An Affair". Discover the real reasons the affair happened. Hint: none of the real reasons will blame you. They will all deal with her, her feelings, and her own precautions, or possibly joint precautions. Part of those EPs, though, is complete and radical honesty with you for the rest of her life... enforced through whatever technological or process changes you think are appropriate to make sure you know even when she doesn't want you to know.

Remember those EPs include your full access to every password, every account, every mailing, any and every piece of information that you need to reassure yourself she's not having another affair. Complete, absolute transparency. Remind her it's not a punishment, but a way to fill your emotional need for openness & honesty.

* EXPECT APPROACH-AVOIDANCE. She may have the attraction/repulsion dynamic going on here, wanting to be with you when she's away from you, and wanting to be away from you when she's with you. Figure out what repulses her -- probably Love Busters -- and find ways to remedy them together.

Remember always that she is totally responsible for how you feel about her, and you are totally responsible for how she feels about you. You cannot change your own feelings toward her: she must. She cannot change her own feelings toward you: you must. Treat that as a sacred responsibility to nurse her back to health after these horrible, tragic events occurred. They happened completely due to her own decisions, but she needs time to heal, nonetheless.

Expect withdrawal.

To sum up again:
* PROTECTION
* CARE
* TIME
* HONESTY
* EXCLUSIVE NEED-MEETING
* POJA

Expect her honesty to grow with time, and for her to have some difficulty talking about things at first. Remember that EVERY conversation about the affair has a cost in Love Units withdrawn when she accesses that memory bank. Plan to keep such conversations to a minimum. It's helpful to write down your questions and plan to discuss them at a certain time on a certain day each week so you can keep those Love Unit Withdrawals to a minimum. Avoid "Why" questions, if you have them, and focus on "What", "When", "Where", and "With Whom" questions, because "Why" questions can be answered by understanding Love Bank balances, exclusive need-meeting, and independent behavior + dishonesty being requirements for conducting an affair.

Good luck, bro. We're here.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:36 PM
Good news - now be the lighthouse and bring the ship home.

DNM - good post

Not a bad idea to delay getting a job. This current job to repair your marriage wounds will take some time and more important.

Noticed that she asked you to come get her - she needs her man to get her out of this mess. Anyway thats how I take it.

Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:38 PM
*edit*
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
@patriot45,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in again.

When she comes back, you have just one job: be the husband she needs.

* PROTECT HER from your anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later." Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* PROTECT YOURSELF from her anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later. Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* MEET HER NEEDS, particularly affection and conversation, by asking "How can I help you?" and "How do you feel if...?" questions, as well as demonstrating physical affection and finding ways to show her you are always thinking about her.

* INVITE HER TO MEET YOUR NEEDS using thoughtful requests and respectful persuasion. Frame each request or persuasion attempt in your mind using "How would you feel about..." or "I'd love it if..." questions/statements that avoid use of the word "YOU" anywhere in them. Think "I'd love it if we could find a way to meet my need for openness & honesty together", or "How would you feel about taking a few days off work so we can be together?" Don't expect a lot of results for several weeks or months, though, until her addiction wears off.

* SPEND UNINTERRUPTED TIME TOGETHER, a bare minimum of 15 hours per week (but shoot for 30!). Ensure during this time you are giving one another undivided attention without distractions. This may mean booking flights together if she goes out of town from now on (and finding a nanny), or coming to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement of a change in her job responsibilities to avoid spending overnights away from you ever again.

* BE HONEST with her about your feelings in a non-judgmental way. "I'm sad today because I'm thinking about all that has happened" or "I am happy you are home."

* REWARD HER HONESTY by learning to say "Thank you for being honest" while not allowing yourself to become defensive even if her honesty sounds accusatory. Do not interrupt to correct her, and practice expressing how her accusations make you feel rather than stating why they are wrong.

* ESTABLISH EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to prevent recidivism, as recommended in "Surviving An Affair". Discover the real reasons the affair happened. Hint: none of the real reasons will blame you. They will all deal with her, her feelings, and her own precautions, or possibly joint precautions. Part of those EPs, though, is complete and radical honesty with you for the rest of her life... enforced through whatever technological or process changes you think are appropriate to make sure you know even when she doesn't want you to know.

Remember those EPs include your full access to every password, every account, every mailing, any and every piece of information that you need to reassure yourself she's not having another affair. Complete, absolute transparency. Remind her it's not a punishment, but a way to fill your emotional need for openness & honesty.

* EXPECT APPROACH-AVOIDANCE. She may have the attraction/repulsion dynamic going on here, wanting to be with you when she's away from you, and wanting to be away from you when she's with you. Figure out what repulses her -- probably Love Busters -- and find ways to remedy them together.

Remember always that she is totally responsible for how you feel about her, and you are totally responsible for how she feels about you. You cannot change your own feelings toward her: she must. She cannot change her own feelings toward you: you must. Treat that as a sacred responsibility to nurse her back to health after these horrible, tragic events occurred. They happened completely due to her own decisions, but she needs time to heal, nonetheless.

Expect withdrawal.

To sum up again:
* PROTECTION
* CARE
* TIME
* HONESTY
* EXCLUSIVE NEED-MEETING
* POJA

Expect her honesty to grow with time, and for her to have some difficulty talking about things at first. Remember that EVERY conversation about the affair has a cost in Love Units withdrawn when she accesses that memory bank. Plan to keep such conversations to a minimum. It's helpful to write down your questions and plan to discuss them at a certain time on a certain day each week so you can keep those Love Unit Withdrawals to a minimum. Avoid "Why" questions, if you have them, and focus on "What", "When", "Where", and "With Whom" questions, because "Why" questions can be answered by understanding Love Bank balances, exclusive need-meeting, and independent behavior + dishonesty being requirements for conducting an affair.

Good luck, bro. We're here.

Awesome MARRIAGE BUILDING advice !

dance2
Posted By: Dude007 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
*edit*

*edit*
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Gack

There are people here that feel it's there duty to punish WW's.
Doesn't matter that their not even their own WW's.

Amen
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
*edit*
That is uncalled for. This is MB not DB.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Doormat_No_More
@patriot45,

I hope you don't mind me chiming in again.

When she comes back, you have just one job: be the husband she needs.

* PROTECT HER from your anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later." Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* PROTECT YOURSELF from her anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later. Walk away and do something else if that happens.

* MEET HER NEEDS, particularly affection and conversation, by asking "How can I help you?" and "How do you feel if...?" questions, as well as demonstrating physical affection and finding ways to show her you are always thinking about her.

* INVITE HER TO MEET YOUR NEEDS using thoughtful requests and respectful persuasion. Frame each request or persuasion attempt in your mind using "How would you feel about..." or "I'd love it if..." questions/statements that avoid use of the word "YOU" anywhere in them. Think "I'd love it if we could find a way to meet my need for openness & honesty together", or "How would you feel about taking a few days off work so we can be together?" Don't expect a lot of results for several weeks or months, though, until her addiction wears off.

* SPEND UNINTERRUPTED TIME TOGETHER, a bare minimum of 15 hours per week (but shoot for 30!). Ensure during this time you are giving one another undivided attention without distractions. This may mean booking flights together if she goes out of town from now on (and finding a nanny), or coming to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement of a change in her job responsibilities to avoid spending overnights away from you ever again.

* BE HONEST with her about your feelings in a non-judgmental way. "I'm sad today because I'm thinking about all that has happened" or "I am happy you are home."

* REWARD HER HONESTY by learning to say "Thank you for being honest" while not allowing yourself to become defensive even if her honesty sounds accusatory. Do not interrupt to correct her, and practice expressing how her accusations make you feel rather than stating why they are wrong.

* ESTABLISH EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS to prevent recidivism, as recommended in "Surviving An Affair". Discover the real reasons the affair happened. Hint: none of the real reasons will blame you. They will all deal with her, her feelings, and her own precautions, or possibly joint precautions. Part of those EPs, though, is complete and radical honesty with you for the rest of her life... enforced through whatever technological or process changes you think are appropriate to make sure you know even when she doesn't want you to know.

Remember those EPs include your full access to every password, every account, every mailing, any and every piece of information that you need to reassure yourself she's not having another affair. Complete, absolute transparency. Remind her it's not a punishment, but a way to fill your emotional need for openness & honesty.

* EXPECT APPROACH-AVOIDANCE. She may have the attraction/repulsion dynamic going on here, wanting to be with you when she's away from you, and wanting to be away from you when she's with you. Figure out what repulses her -- probably Love Busters -- and find ways to remedy them together.

Remember always that she is totally responsible for how you feel about her, and you are totally responsible for how she feels about you. You cannot change your own feelings toward her: she must. She cannot change her own feelings toward you: you must. Treat that as a sacred responsibility to nurse her back to health after these horrible, tragic events occurred. They happened completely due to her own decisions, but she needs time to heal, nonetheless.

Expect withdrawal.

To sum up again:
* PROTECTION
* CARE
* TIME
* HONESTY
* EXCLUSIVE NEED-MEETING
* POJA

Expect her honesty to grow with time, and for her to have some difficulty talking about things at first. Remember that EVERY conversation about the affair has a cost in Love Units withdrawn when she accesses that memory bank. Plan to keep such conversations to a minimum. It's helpful to write down your questions and plan to discuss them at a certain time on a certain day each week so you can keep those Love Unit Withdrawals to a minimum. Avoid "Why" questions, if you have them, and focus on "What", "When", "Where", and "With Whom" questions, because "Why" questions can be answered by understanding Love Bank balances, exclusive need-meeting, and independent behavior + dishonesty being requirements for conducting an affair.

Good luck, bro. We're here.

If only I could of/would of known this and followed this advice. I am keeping this post
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
*edit*
Why say this Z?
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:50 PM
Dude,

With all due respect, you advice to
Quote
He needs to BLAST her to garner her RESPECT. I'd walk up to than table w/ a Plan D in hand and plan FU w/ the other hand. Follow through w/ it. Then, after he has protected himself and his children from this wreckless B, let her hit ROCK BOTTOM, maybe they can talk reconciliation. NOT BEFORE, she has gone WAY TOO FAR! He needs to protect his SANITY now! DUDE
Is just plain wrong.

Your W had an affair, and your solution was to have an affair and divorce her. You have no idea how or why MB works and you put little effort into your marriage or the recovery.

Pat will gain respect for himself and from others if he handles this in a calm, thoughtful, and consistent way. He is also likely to get a better outcome for his children who no matter how poor a mother his W has been will miss her and will suffer from the break up of the family. It may happen, but Pat will be much better able to handle and deal with the children if he can look them in the eye and say "I did my best, and in the end the best decision was to end this family". He will ALSO gain great respect from his kids if in the end he can look them in the eye and say "Your mother hurt me deeply, but I found a way to forgive and rebuild this marriage. I was NOT going to give up on my promises because of a little pain."

The problem you have Dude is you can look no one in the eye and say you even tried, thought or considered anyone but yourself and your pain. If you had/have children they would know that their old man cut country, shacked up with the first bimbo he could find, and is dealing with his pain via anger.

Nice really nice.

Pat, calm and steady. You get to choose your course. So map it out carefully, get all of your ducks in a row, and then take whatever action seems warrented by your analysis and the response of your W.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:51 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by Zelmo
*edit*

*edit*

Pat; skip the drivel, the reason this site exists is for situations like you are in. You can do this. You have to believe and give her the chance to START a recovery.

PS There is an "ignore" feature on your thread. Did you know?
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 07:53 PM
Pat:

This post is all over the place. I was one of the "burn her at the stake" people yesterday. Eh...sometimes us bystanders get a little too excited and we like to project our own experiences onto that of others.

Follow the MB advice you're getting. That's why you're here after all, right? Better to be calm and make good decisions. It works out best for everyone in the end.

Your WW is showing remorse. That, IMO, is critical. It's been 4 mos. or so since my D-Day and I've gotten not so much as a single "sorry" or "I was wrong". I think remorse is a critical requirement for healing.

Yeah, this is where it gets tough. And expect to keep hearing crap. If things move forward, she's headed for withdrawal and it's going to be tough on her AND you. Might want to plan a long getaway if you can, just the two of you. Not sure how likely that is, but Harley suggests it can ease the withdrawal period and prevent her from going back to OM while she is weakest.

Really, you are in a good position right now. Avoid the LBs and do your best to show your WW why you are the superior man in her life. She will see it, in time.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
*edit*
Why say this Z?

*edit*
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
Eh...sometimes us bystanders get a little too excited and we like to project our own experiences onto that of others.

Follow the MB advice you're getting. That's why you're here after all, right? Better to be calm and make good decisions. It works out best for everyone in the end.

Excellent MARRIAGE BUILDING post.



dance2
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:16 PM
*edit*
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:18 PM
Quote
To sum up again:
* PROTECTION
* CARE
* TIME
* HONESTY
* EXCLUSIVE NEED-MEETING
* POJA
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:26 PM
*edit*
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:30 PM
*edit*
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:31 PM
*edit*
Posted By: Breezemb Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:31 PM
Zelmo, please stop harassing this poster.

This is a Marriage Building Forum.

Let's get back to Marriage Building please.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:32 PM
Quote
Remember always that she is totally responsible for how you feel about her, and you are totally responsible for how she feels about you. You cannot change your own feelings toward her: she must. She cannot change her own feelings toward you: you must. Treat that as a sacred responsibility to nurse her back to health after these horrible, tragic events occurred. They happened completely due to her own decisions, but she needs time to heal, nonetheless.

A sacred responsibility.
Time to heal.

AWESOME MB advice !
clap

Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:33 PM
*edit*
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:38 PM
Z: All BS get abused verbally - it goes with the territory. If I posted half the stuff my WW said to me my posts would all be censored. Sticks and stones and all that.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
Z: All BS get abused verbally - it goes with the territory. If I posted half the stuff my WW said to me my posts would all be censored. Sticks and stones and all that.

Verbal and emotional abuse can be quite damaging, ind. Sorry you have had to go through this. Your wife owes big time restitution. A truly remoseful person is more than willing to make restitutuion. IMO.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 08:50 PM
Quote
* PROTECT YOURSELF from her anger, disrespect, and demands by learning to say "This conversation isn't safe for me right now. I'd love to talk later. Walk away and do something else if that happens.

Incredible and insightful advice.
hurray
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 09:06 PM
I've never felt so... applauded. Thanks, Pep!

One more thing occurred to me... part of our recent and radical transformation was due to taking 2 hours to have Dr. Harley teach us the Ten Basic Concepts via DVD, rather than just reading it here on the web site. It's concise, it's abbreviated versus what you get here, but it WORKS.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_basicsdvd.html

Go spend $16 (including shipping) and get one for yourself. It's totally worth it to watch together once or twice while trying to rebuild.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 10:03 PM
Pat

Get WW a new cell phone with GPS and a new number. Block OM's calls.

WW making a good start.

Now stay calm. Next thing is to get WW in job away from the OM and without travel.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/21/10 11:40 PM
Patriot,

I applaud the developments. I believe you've handled everything great so far.

Now, this might sound contradictory from what I told you before, but I do encourage you to find a way to make this work. Your kids deserve the attempt and the effort.

She seems open to getting feedback on how to move forward. Get the books and get her onboard the MB plan and I hope you can make it work.

Best of luck.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 12:06 PM
We'll, yesterday was quite a day. After she called me in the morning, of course he continued to try and contact her. Each time she would call me and tell me what was happening, or forward me the text. She told him (voice and text) that it was over so on and so on. When she went to the airport to get her flight, lo and behold D-head had changed his flight to be on the same plane. She was calling me from the airport to tell me what was going on. Evidently, he approached her several times, telling her how in love he was and how sorry that they had that terrible fight. Well, I was filled in about the REAL nature of this relationship and all it entailed. Seems he had a live in girlfriend that he was "going to leave". She evidently contacted this girl after there big blow out and it was on. I guess the hotel security had to come up it became so disruptive and she had to get another room. So I know he is still contacting her and she says it's all over, no chance so on, but If it was so, why not block him and why respond? I said if it's over and he's sending you these texts and stuff, forward them to his girlfriend. She said "I don't want to escilate this". i.e I'm not ready to end this. I know that it will take time and all, but with the stories I am now getting about this guy I am blown away that she was with him. He was doing drugs, (she never has) and he evidently had a temper which came out of nowhere. She told me a couple weeks ago he exploded for no reason and yesterday was particurally ugly. When she landed in Dallas last night, her flight had such a long delay, that she had to rent a car and she drove home (3hrs).She talked to me the entire time and I more or less listened to what she said about how he wasn't who she thought he was and this was all sureal and wrong. That she was sorry about all this and that. How she wanted time to work on us. But the thing was when she would say it's over with him the reason she would give is we are "toxic together". Funny response. She did say she has lost herself, didn't know why she was doing this stuff and all and I think she believed what she was sying, but I don't think it will last. When she came home, she walked in the door and said I'm tired and I just want to go to bed. So we talked until she got in the driveway, then she walks in the door and goes to bed. I think that goes to your comment about wanting to be with me when she's away, and him when she's here. Now my question is how/when to broach the subject of trust and the opening of records. I know she is going to resist, but it's a deal breaker. How do you get past that? If she says no, then what? Ask her to move out? When (obviously soon) do you mention this? Do I wait 1-2 days? She is opening up, but still very raw and I know this will set off a whole new round of crap, but she is going to have to let me see those records to move forward.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 12:32 PM
Get her on the phone with Jennifer Chalmers ASAP, like today!

Jennifer can help her sort things out.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 01:10 PM
Who?
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 01:18 PM
Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers. Dr. Harley's daughter, and one of the counselors here at Marriage Builders.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 01:19 PM
Dr Harley's daughter. She does phone counseling. Click on the Counseling Center tab at the top of the page.

Set your bar high Patriot!

God's Blessings,


Say
Posted By: walkingthefield Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 01:19 PM
Contact the Coaching center.

I put the link below.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel2.html
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 03:29 PM
Pat, I really am routing for you two! But if you've read the articles here, you DO realize that, as the BS, YOU will be the one doing the "heavy lifting" in the R until she is de-fogged. If fact, Dr. Harley recommends that the BS might need to medicate, as she most likely will not be ready to fill your Love Bank yet. She was a drug addict who now has had her crack pipe taken away, and she will go through withdrawal. She may still say some bad things like "I don't know if I can get that in-love feeling with you" or "I miss POSOM." Remember, waywards all use the same script! She will have to do the heavy lifting in the R soon enough.

Oh, and get yourselves tested for STD's a.s.a.p.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 04:49 PM
Quote
Oh, and get yourselves tested for STD's a.s.a.p.


this is important - she needs to be upfront about protection -

good grief - the one thing this stitch does not need is an OC pregnancy
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 05:31 PM
Wekk, after I wnt to work this morning, she called hystericle asking me to come home, that she didn't want to be alone. So I leave work, rush home and WTF, she is cold and acting like I shouldn't be here. Then she starts rationalizing her fight with A-hole and how it was her fault and blah blah blah. I sat here and did as they say, I listened and supported her and didn't say anyhing judgemental but my cheeks are now numb from biting them. The only thing I said in relation to that was you said yesterday it was all over, so why does it matter. Her response: I didn't say that, what I said was it was going no where and we're toxic together. I am sick to my stomach. Then she brings up moving to Houston again. I know this is a process, but obviously she is not done with this guy. She will contact him again and she will see him again. I have read the book and all about Sue, Greg and Jon and I know myself, there is NO way I could last that long. It's been two days and I'm sick. The resentment she has right now is palpable. You all have been dead on till now, but how this is going to work I'm not sure.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Wekk, after I wnt to work this morning, she called hystericle asking me to come home, that she didn't want to be alone. So I leave work, rush home and WTF, she is cold and acting like I shouldn't be here.
Between the time she called you, and the time you got home, she contacted OM, or HE contacted her. One or the other, but contact was made.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 05:48 PM
This is the first day of the crack addict going with out the crack pipe. The drunk starting the DTs.

Withdrawal is setting in. The DRAMA dramaqueen at the airport, his explosive temper, all tend to keep his memory fresh in her mind. So the FOGBABBLE spews forth and she called you home to hear it.

You did good. If she can keep the no contact in force she can weather this storm. Can you INSIST that she block him from her cell and computer?

HE SOUNDS LIKE A STALKER AT THE AIRPORT. Can YOU get a restraining order on the LOW LIFE??

Stay strong brother...maybe get a mouth guard to protect your cheeks. laugh

kirk cool
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 05:48 PM
@patriot45:

Remember your basic requirements for recovery. Learn to state them unequivocally but lovingly:

1. That she commit to never see or speak to the other man for the rest of her life. This includes extraordinary precautions to prevent contact.
2. That she commit to complete transparency with you, including all passwords and means of communication.
3. That she commit to a marital recovery program with you (preferably MarriageBuilders).

That's it. That's your "bar" that people keep saying to "set high". Those are demands, unfortunately, but they should be the only demands you'll be issuing to her for the rest of your life.

And yeah, contact is ongoing. That's why she's vacillating. Good job restraining your Love Busters... you'll need it. See if you can get a coaching appointment ASAP. It's totally worth the $195, and I've outlined earlier in my thread what my appointment was like.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:04 PM
She has flipped out, totally driven by her desire for the OM. protect yourself and get a voice recorder. She is liable to accuse you of anything.

I have no idea how anyone could tolerate this abuse. Sorry she is doing this to you.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:17 PM
Well, there is no way to block a cell call. You're right about the addict part and if it was just a matter of riding out the withdrawls, I think I could stand it. But if she goes back to him, how does one get over that. Then (and I know it's soon) wouldn't plan B be the next logical step? Problem here is, she is not going to leave and I won't leave the kids with her. She cannot care for them because of travel and such, so how do I get her out short of a divorce. This Houston thing has me a bit worried, because if she goes there, there is no travel and then she would have a better case for custody. I just think the courts would have a problem with her mental state, her spending and the obvious instability. But I'm not a lawyer and stranger things have happened.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
What is also coming out is her resentment that I'm home.

Originally Posted by patriot45
I turned down that job, but I have a couple more that are promising and would be more "family friendly".

Originally Posted by patriot45
Wekk, after I wnt to work this morning,
dontknow skeptical
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Then (and I know it's soon) wouldn't plan B be the next logical step?
Yes

Originally Posted by patriot45
Problem here is, she is not going to leave and I won't leave the kids with her.
You do not leave. I fshe want's to run off to OM', she leaves and you go for Plan-B, or Plan-D.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, there is no way to block a cell call. You're right about the addict part and if it was just a matter of riding out the withdrawls, I think I could stand it. But if she goes back to him, how does one get over that. Then (and I know it's soon) wouldn't plan B be the next logical step? Problem here is, she is not going to leave and I won't leave the kids with her. She cannot care for them because of travel and such, so how do I get her out short of a divorce. This Houston thing has me a bit worried, because if she goes there, there is no travel and then she would have a better case for custody. I just think the courts would have a problem with her mental state, her spending and the obvious instability. But I'm not a lawyer and stranger things have happened.

The overspending, the cheating, and her willingness to abandon her children all point to some sort of disorder, IMO. If you have the resources and have to go the D route, I would inquire about having a psych eval should she fight for custody.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
The overspending, the cheating, and her willingness to abandon her children all point to some sort of disorder, IMO.
Depends on her history. Was she always this unstable, or just since the affair.

Cause or Affect?


Originally Posted by Zelmo
If you have the resources and have to go the D route, I would inquire about having a psych eval should she fight for custody.
This is sound advice fore anyone going through a divorce with a wayward, especially with kids.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 06:49 PM
Pat,

I am confused. Do you have a job or not?

You are wise to listen to her, but you would be well advised to get some help and support. Help for her and support for yourself. This is a process and it does not end easily.

I would strongly advice you to quit trying to tell the future. What you can do is set your boundaries for anyone near you, and for your marriage to succeed or you to even consider working on the marriage. She needs to hear those boundaries. They are NOT demands. They are YOUR boundaries and they are what you need to live and function.

Right now she is still thinking like a wayward and she will continue to do so for awhile, perhaps a long while. You don't know. I will say if she is ready to be a poor mother, a poor W, and have an affair, her wayward thinking is pretty deep.

Quit putting stress on your life by asking "what if?" Instead, get the job thing settled. See an attorney and get a really good idea of what you should do to protect yourself and the kids. Give him the letters that folks wrote about who they think should rear the children. And then sit back and watch.

Talk to her folks and seek their thoughts. Talk to your folks and seek their thoughts, but don't put them in the middle. You want honesty. You want clear thinking. You want people to help you examine the data and see what to do with it. But, first you have to determine what is data and what is "fog babble" by a woman that was on an endorphin high from her affair.

Settle down, focus on your path, your kids, and your own decisions. Listen to her. If you, don't see something as she does or something she says crosses a boundary, state how you see it or that she is crossing a boundary you won't allow her to do, and then leave.

You have more control than she does. And you have something she may never get back...you integrity.

Hang in there, recovery is NOT for wimps. And if you choose that route expect the emotional rollercoaster to be moving at top speed.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 07:47 PM
Patriot,

Make an appt with the Harleys. Make an appt with an attorney. The future of your children is at stake. Get your ducks in a row. Protect your children, your home, your finances, your sanity and your dignity.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 08:06 PM
Pat:

What everyone is sayin' and what you already know is that this thing is going to go down one of two ways:

1. She initiates NC, leaves the POSOM forever and works on R
2. She gives up, heads back to OM and continues the misery

Both those paths are her decisions. You can't control what decision she is going to make, you can only be prepared to respond in the proper way. So make sure you're ready for both cases:

1. If she goes this route, then be ready for withdrawal. You've already seen it (the crying to come back home and then the coldness). The A was *literally* crack and coming off of it is going to crush her hard. Don't try to explain this to her, she won't get it. Just provide a loving, tolerant environment and be prepared for a few weeks (could be longer) of hell. The biggest challenge at this point is maintaining NC. This is why I suggested a vacation in an earlier post. I don't know if you can or not, but going somewhere, anywhere, for 2 weeks right now, would be a huge step for both of you. You could enforce NC and she could come down with just you to be there to catch her. If she makes it past withdrawal, then you start on the path to R, keeping in mind that there are plenty of people here who have had to go through multiple D-Day's. NC is critical.

2. If she goes this route, then Plan B is in order. This means you have to get her out of the house cuz Plan B don't work when the WW is in contact with you. Kicking her out could lead to D which means you need to know your rights, so it's a good time to get an introductory consultation, if you haven't already (they should be free, if the lawyer wants to charge, find another one).

Neither route is easy. But don't delude yourself - you can't change her thinking. All you can do is react in the best possible way to whatever choice she makes.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 08:06 PM
Quote
Then (and I know it's soon) wouldn't plan B be the next logical step? Problem here is, she is not going to leave and I won't leave the kids with her. She cannot care for them because of travel and such, so how do I get her out short of a divorce.

People have planned B'ed living in the same house. You just give them the plan B letter and try and ignore them as much as possible.

Quote
This Houston thing has me a bit worried, because if she goes there, there is no travel and then she would have a better case for custody. I just think the courts would have a problem with her mental state, her spending and the obvious instability. But I'm not a lawyer and stranger things have happened.

This is why you start meeting with a lawyer and get your ducks lined in a row now. You need to start documenting how you are caring for the children everyday, things like taking them to school, taking them to their after school activities, taking them to the doctor, etc., as well as what nights your WW is away. Meet with a lawyer and he will advise you on what you need to do to build a custody case, even if you don't file. Then if she decides, she wants to take the kids to Houston, guess what? You file for divorce and seek an injunction to keep her from moving the kids and you get primary custody. You just need to be ready to go at moments notice. I would advise you to meet with a lawyer today.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 08:45 PM
I have a part-time job.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 08:57 PM
1. Don't jump to Plan B without a plan.

2. Expect the "Come here...but stay away from me". My wife wanted me around all the time but when I was she hardly seemed to want me there.

3. In the cases where the WW tries to end it with the OM...I wouldn't expect NC to be instantaneous. She is still fuelled by the addiction and the drama with OM...but the fact she wants you around her is an indication that she feels safest with you. Be her place to fall...be her friend and support her even though it's the hardest thing you'll ever do. Like you, the OM in our situation was long distance as such...the breaks in NC were phone calls and emails and NOT physical meetings. My plan was not to endure another meeting between the two of them but I was going to endure a few breaks in NC (though I WAS stating my boundaries) while I helped my wife extract herself from the toxic relationship. Whether our marriage survived or not...I wanted her OUT of the relationship with OM no matter what (as I didn't want to endure years of her and my daughter with this guy even if we divorced).

4. Recover won't ACTUALLY begin until the affair is absolutely over. Ending the affair is PRIMARY OBJECTIVE NUMBER ONE. You won't really be able to assess your recovery options, believe a word she says, or rebuild trust until such point so just stick to your plan A and TRY not to be needy, begging or demanding.

I presume you married this woman, "in sickness and health" and "in good times and bad". Well...this is the worst. I focused on just living up to my vows above and allow the chips to fall as they may. If she never ends the affair...you'll have a timetable of when you've reached YOUR limit and Plan B will then become the plan followed by an eventual Plan D if & when that doesn't work.

Mr. Wondering



Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 09:35 PM
Excellant post Mr W. I know that Patriot can get through this with level headed advisors like you.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 10:54 PM
When she came home today, she clarified (I guess) what she meant this morning about never saying it was over. She said she was refering to her emotions, not the physical side of it: We'll see. She has been crying off and on, very depressed. Like you said, it's one of the hardest things to do being supportive while she thinks about another man. Once in a while she'll open up and be better, but it's short lived. I have two more job interviews lined up, both are closerto home and a strait 40hrs or so a week. Pay is not as good, but it's something that works with the kids. I KNOW once I get a new job I will feel a lot better about all this. It is just so draining on everyone right now that it's hard to see how it could get better. Part of it is I cannot believe she got involved with a guy who does drugs, has a temper and is living with another women. It's just soooooo not her. Now she is moping around the house and leaving me to pick up the pieces, even though I'm barely functioning. Again, through this all another selfish act.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 10:57 PM
Ask her to hold you.

"I need you to do something for me.
Please hold me without talking for 1 minute."


Just try it.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/22/10 11:27 PM
Pat -

You are getting great feedback and advice from JL, DNM, Mr W, and Pep. Great stuff on this thread.

In fact so good - going to save it in my favourites.

Remember this is a marathon, take one day (even one moment) at a time.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 12:50 AM
Patriot,

The BS usually has to do the "heavy lifting" at this point. It is not fair, but name one thing about this mess that is. Give her some time. You will see the worst of withdrawal for about 3 weeks. If she starts to perk up sooner keep an eye out for contact with OM, that is usually what is happening.

The addict gets their fix and all is right with the world for awhile. Good luck on the job hunt. I know that will help you right now.

My recommendations for right now: listen to her, focus on the kids (she is not), and work on getting one of those jobs. Don't second guess yourself and just be who you are and were all along.

If she asks what you need, and she is not likely to do that anytime soon, tell her a No Contact letter to OM. NC is crucial for this to work or even have a "good" divorce. Oddly claims that even a divorce should be POJA'd.

Hang in there, things will change but in baby steps.

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 01:11 AM
You must be joking?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 01:13 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
You must be joking?

Nope.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 03:46 AM
I think that's awesome advice.

And I understand your reaction.

At one point, while The Leopard was still under my roof, deep in her affair, she asked me to give HER a hug.

Wow, did I have a hard time doing it. I did it. But it certainly wasn't the kind of hug I -used- to give her.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 04:17 AM
When I rushed home from work this morning, I thought that's what she wanted, but instead it was just to be here. I NEVER thought I would be the type of guy who could sit here, after his wife came back from a week with another man, in which they "broke up" (wink wink) and watch her crying for him and not throw here out on her ears. My family, her family, everyone is in shock at my tolerence level. They say for better or worse, this has reached new levels of absurd.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 04:24 AM
I know this is going to sound even more absurd to you but I HOPE TO BE WHERE YOU ARE. I am in Plan B and my WH is living with POSOW. I am living my life while he continues his affair that has been going on for who knows how long(up to 2 and a half years UGH). I can't help you through this part but know that it could be worse laugh
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 06:22 AM
I've read that the greatest threat to the recovery of a marriage is the BS after about 6 months.

I imagine that all the stuff that happened and that you tolerated comes rushing back at that point and you start wondering why you want this cheater back in your life.

I'm merely sharing what I've heard. I got there myself, but it was feelings about an ex wife.

I'm at a point in my life where the thought of being with her is met with revulsion and I'm happy with who I'm with right now.
Posted By: ElCamino72 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 06:24 AM
I've been following this thread and it has really touched me. I know how it feels to wonder how you're still there tolerating the situation. That goes to say that you're stronger that what you previously thought. I know it's really hard to watch your WW cry for OM who is nothing but a bum. But think that she's really grieving the potential loss of her addiction not necessarily OM who is worthless.

I second what others have said about coaching with the Harleys. It seems like this may be a good time to do that. They can help you and your WW to get through these terrible situation. Their guidance has been invaluable in my case. I strongly suggest you make an appointment ASAP.

--ElCamino72
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 02:19 PM
Her bosses husband is a minister and councellor and offered to help, but she said she does not want councelling right now. This is coming from someone who's a Phsycology major. Your comment aboutthe addition, I don't think so. She is grieving his loss (wink) and not the addiction. I thought she may have hit rock bottom when she was calling at 4am the other day asking me to come get her, but yesterday made me sick. She started rationalizeing what happened saying "I know your biased, but I don't want you to think that he is like that. It was my fault and he's not the monster you think". She's right, I'm not unbiased and I could give a s..t less who or what he is. I just want him gone and told him so. I guess rock bottom hasen't happened yet. We were sitting here last night and she asked me what has changed about her over the past three years. I said "do you want my honest opinion" she said "yes, be honest". So I told her that she has become selfish and narcasistic. She has sacraficed the well being of her kids and I for her own selfish needs. I told her she had no conection with her children and they were growing up without her. I thought she would either break down and say your right, or get angry and say it's my fault or some other phsyco babble. Instead, she just sat there and went into thought..... Never said a word back. I do-not have the will of some of the other people on this site. It's been a month and for me, if she sees him again, she's out. She has to travel up to Oaklahoma City next week, it's about a 3 hour drive, one she has made before. So we'll see. I don't think she has the will to break it off as evidenced by her allowing him to speak with her at the airport. I do think (know) she is very nervous about my going back to work. She know's once that happens there is no longer a financial connection and I will then have all the cards. Until then, I think she'll vacilate (or try) between us. Right now neither one of us is sure it's worth trying, but ny view is if I walk away, I want to be able to say I gave it my all. Her view is that for years I was not there for her emotionally and my family never accepted her and I made her feel unworthy. Couple things that may clarify and help in peoples assesment: We had children before we married. I had been married once before and did not want to again.....never lied about that. I was happy being with her, but I hedged on getting married. This has always been a major issue because she felt unworthy. The other is she is 34 and I am 46. I think the age difference is an issue. I met her when she was 23 and I was 35, so there is that issue. I had kind of did it done it and bought the T-shirt and she was still young and had not experienced a lot of the things I had. I think in her mind I went from being a Farrari to a Camry and she's probably right. Now there is someone who is new who gives her the attention and excitment she feels are missing at home. Funny (ha, ha) to think he's the same age I was when we met. I think these are important issues which will help all in there opinions.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 03:59 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
"I know your biased, but I don't want you to think that he is like that. It was my fault and he's not the monster you think".

The following post was written by Weaver as a response to criticism that MBers were posting mean things to ACTIVE waywards who were on MB.
Maybe something from this post will be useful to you in future communications with WW.


Quote
This board is full of people faced with the complete and utter devestation of their family and of the very core of their being.

They are being forced to make decisions while under extreme duress such as:

Do I go after the throat of the person I love more than life in court?

Do I wrench my children away from the parent they love so much in order to ensure that they are not subject to scumbag OM or OW?

Do I fight for custody, knowing my children will not understand why I must do this?

Is it in their best interest to fight for full custody? Will I hurt them worse?

Do I swallow my pride and take back the WS who ripped out our hearts and laughed the whole time, so my children are not subjected to what I am about to subject them to?

Do I financially ruin this person I loved so much and bore/fathered my children, to protect us?

Do I force myself to stop loving this person and move on with my life, knowing that they are destroying themselves and once I do I won't turn back.

Can you imagine having to make those kinds of decisions? Those going through your already over-loaded mind that is not quite functioning properly because you haven't slept or ate in weeks?

And then once the WS has a change of heart, the BS must stuff it all and heal the best way he can while

NEVER offending in anyway the WS, or the OM/OP?

You read this stuff all day long?

I am asking you, WHAT DIFFERENCE does it make what we say to an active WS? WHO GIVES A SH*T? If they are close to repentence, believe me they will be on their knees in shame, not stirring the pot.

If they come here while they are active and expect to get treated with respect, then they have more problems going on then just the fog.

I will not treat an ACTIVE WS the way I will treat others.

And if I did, how would that help to change their mindset?

If they get hit with both barrels here, it is just all that much sooner that the fog lifts.

It is just all that much easier that the BS has it during his Plan A.

The BS can't say what we can.

If your WW were to come to MB to post, she would meet 2X4s of truth from people who want your marriage to work.
She would hear things that you cannot say without decreasing the love bank.

You may want to consider when the timing is right to invite WW to MB.

The advantage is - we beat her up. We beat POSOM up. You don't.

If she is still an active WW - she will get bludgeoned.
If she's just foggy, not so much.

Just a thought .... from the peanut gallery.

Best to you !

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/23/10 08:12 PM
She's too "fresh" to bring down here. She has to show she can keep from contacting OM first. Maybe after a month of NC.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
I think that's awesome advice.

And I understand your reaction.

At one point, while The Leopard was still under my roof, deep in her affair, she asked me to give HER a hug.

Wow, did I have a hard time doing it. I did it. But it certainly wasn't the kind of hug I -used- to give her.

Did her eyes bulge?
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
I think that's awesome advice.

And I understand your reaction.

At one point, while The Leopard was still under my roof, deep in her affair, she asked me to give HER a hug.

Wow, did I have a hard time doing it. I did it. But it certainly wasn't the kind of hug I -used- to give her.

My first XWW used to do this all the time, ask for hugs while she was cheating. I was stupid enough to do it.
I beleive it made her lose even more respect for me and I am mortified I did it.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 04:49 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
When I rushed home from work this morning, I thought that's what she wanted, but instead it was just to be here. I NEVER thought I would be the type of guy who could sit here, after his wife came back from a week with another man, in which they "broke up" (wink wink) and watch her crying for him and not throw here out on her ears. My family, her family, everyone is in shock at my tolerence level. They say for better or worse, this has reached new levels of absurd.

Yes, I am amazed, as well , that you can put up with this. It must suck.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 05:53 AM
Pretty much. Tonight got crazy. We were sitting here and she was acting all sad after a pretty good day and she looks at me and says "I'm mad at you. I said for what. She says "you ruined eveything. I loved him and you took away that choice. I said are you expecting an apology? She said no, but I feel like a prisioner in my own home. Is that what you wanted? I said no, I wanted to save my marriage. Then she started getting mad so I got up and told her I'd be back. 2 minutes later my phone rings, come home and talk about this. I said, we are going to a bad spot and I don't want to fight. She (still mad) said what did you expect? That I would come home and say hey, everything is fine, sleep with you and it's all good. I told her I have been here, I have listened to you and supported you. I have been here, barely functioning, caring for the kids while your out having a good time. I said, you call me I'm there. You call me and ask me to take a flight to pick you up and then find out you flew home with him. I have never waivered on what I want. I have laid it out for you what I'm willing to do to fix this. But, if you want to be with him, I can't stop you. However, if you do, I am done with you. Don't call me when your in trouble because I wont be there. Don't ask me for financial help, because I wont be there. I will wash me hands of you. She then said "well, you got what you wanted, I'm here and I don't think I'll be hearing from him again. I said, if you wanted to, I'm sure you could rekindle things, I'm here for you, but just know if you do, I'm done. She said your threatening me, I said no, I'm telling you. I never raised my voice (maybe a little) I just told her what the line was. Her tone changed quite a bit. She puffed a little about taking the kids to Houston because she has an opportunity there. To which I made it VERY clear. I live in Austin, my kids live in Austin. Didn't care for that, but she knows she has little chance. Anyway, she started becoming much calmer and more or less started spewing her psyco babble about this and that.But I told her the whole time, I am here. I will continue to be here to support you and the kids. I told her if she was willing to try, I am here. I know she is going to be down for a while (how hard is that to take) but I would stick with her and commit to fixing this. Any contact with OM amd we're done. I know this is all just starting, but she make's me friggin sick when I here that crap. I have been unbelievably nice through it all. HOW anyone could or would put up with this for a prolonged period is beyond me. I can deal with the moping (to a degree) but telling me how she was "IN love" with him makes me want to puke. This is a guy she has been with in person all of about 25 days. I love the "you ruined it comment" TS! Her family and freinds are beating her up, she has NO support and is feeling like crap. I ALMOST feel sorry for her.....almost.I really have tried to follow this plan, but once in a while, you need to stand up and say enough.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 07:28 AM
Hi Patriot,

Look let me tell you what I think. I think you are talking to her too much. By that I mean, you simply look her in the eye and say: "Dear, You made decisions, immoral decisions and the price you could pay for those decisions are high. It is time you reversed the cranial transplant and realize all that has happened are the consequences of YOUR decisions. I simply don't want to hear that you are mad at me because you had an affair and I called you on it. Call you parents and complain to them about it."

My point is simply she still thinks she can guilt you into something as long as she thinks this she is clearly not realizing how close everything is to blowing up in her face.

And frankly why she would rather live in Houston than Austin indicates she is not thinking well. smile I'll take Austin anyday. smile

Patriot you can plan A and still set your boundaries. Have you sought out a counselor or clergy, or a parent and have them come talk to her? Does she have any friends that might be able to talk to her?

Keep making plans to protect yourself and your children, and make sure the lawyer knows you don't want those children of yours moved.

You actually did very well in the conversation, but she still thinks that you won't leave her and you know, I know and the others her know that you can and will. She is a danger to your family until she figures out that her leverage is gone.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 02:34 PM
""Dear, You made decisions, immoral decisions and the price you could pay for those decisions are high. It is time you realize all that has happened are the consequences of YOUR decisions. I simply don't want to hear that you are mad at me because you had an affair and I called you on it. Call you parents and complain to them about it.""

Great advice made a little better without the sarcasm.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 07:08 PM
Patriot, I am going to ask you a serious question. Is there a huge disparity in the level of intelligence your wife posesses and your own?
You write well and are articulate, as well as very clear headed, IMO. You wife, on the other hand, sound not very bright. I know there is ths " fog" deal that is alluded to. But, seriously, could you imagine yourself, having been busted as your wife has, taking the positions she takes? She sounds immature even for a teenager. What was life like with her before her cheating? Were you the "parent" to her? I do not see how this woman could possibly function in the real world and how she could have been an equal partner to you.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/24/10 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Patriot, I am going to ask you a serious question. Is there a huge disparity in the level of intelligence your wife posesses and your own?
You write well and are articulate, as well as very clear headed, IMO. You wife, on the other hand, sound not very bright. I know there is ths " fog" deal that is alluded to. But, seriously, could you imagine yourself, having been busted as your wife has, taking the positions she takes? She sounds immature even for a teenager. What was life like with her before her cheating? Were you the "parent" to her? I do not see how this woman could possibly function in the real world and how she could have been an equal partner to you.

Sounds just exactly like all textbook waywards to me.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 07:15 AM
Quote
Sounds just exactly like all textbook waywards to me.

Absolutely!

They all act like love sick teenagers and total psychotics.

Typical wayward behavior reads like a list of symptoms of BPD and NPD rolled into one.

With a little mania thrown in for good measure.

Mark
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 07:18 AM
Mania seems to favor female waywards....with a couple guys sprinkled in.

PSUBIKERs X, Pariah's X.....Chai's X.... AB3's X....
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 12:37 PM
Well last night was hell. She went ballistic because she thought I was going to file and ask for custody. Got the over my dead body, you wont ever get a dime from me. They are my kids and it's joint custody or nothing. I (after repeated attempts) said "how can you do that and travel". She said FU I'll figure it out. Screaming and holloring...pure nuts. Then she calmed down and we talked for a while. I said "neither one of wants to continue feeling bad and living like this. I asked her what she wanted. I don't know..I want a divorce. No I don't. Then she goes into right now I don't want you touching me, there is no chemistry between us and I don't think I'll ever get it back. I said the feeling right now is mutual, but it was there once and I'm willing to work at getting it back. The OM seems to be out for right now. She keeps saying I don't have to worry about him anymore, I put the stake in that. I know if she gets the chance she would get back with him, but right now he seems out. She's incredibly pissed about me telling her parents. That seems to be the biggest issue right now. Problem with her parents is they are so mad they will not return her call. I'll have to call and talk with them. So this is all text book huh??? And there is really coming back from all this? Seems pretty bleak to me. I think the best thing right now is to just not talk to her about any of this. There is just hate there right now. The other thing is she will not talk to anyone about it.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
So this is all text book huh???

Yep.

Originally Posted by patriot45
And there is really coming back from all this?

Sometimes.


Originally Posted by patriot45
I think the best thing right now is to just not talk to her about any of this.

Good idea.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 12:59 PM
"textbook?" you ask......

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!

Two days after I busted H and OW togther I also heard the " you took her away from me" line coupled with the "You never wanted me to be happy" and "you only wanted me because I belonged to someone else" lines.....hurts like he77, but it is straight from the wayward manual.....keep loving her through this...one day she will see you as her hero!!!!

Not2fun

ps.....I also got the "it was the best sex" line coupled with "she was better than you".......there are ways to make that laughable
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 01:36 PM
[tj]

Not2fun,

You must have learned all this stuff since you went through it yourself, 'cause at the time it was happening...

grin

[/tj]
Posted By: OurHouse Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 01:54 PM
Pat45: Why do you have to talk to her parents? If it has to do with your kids, then fine. But if you are trying to smooth things over between them for her sake...I'd advise backing off.

She made this mess. Let her clean it up.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well last night was hell. She went ballistic because she thought I was going to file and ask for custody. Got the over my dead body, you wont ever get a dime from me. They are my kids and it's joint custody or nothing. I (after repeated attempts) said "how can you do that and travel". She said FU I'll figure it out. Screaming and holloring...pure nuts. Then she calmed down and we talked for a while. I said "neither one of wants to continue feeling bad and living like this. I asked her what she wanted. I don't know..I want a divorce. No I don't. Then she goes into right now I don't want you touching me, there is no chemistry between us and I don't think I'll ever get it back. I said the feeling right now is mutual, but it was there once and I'm willing to work at getting it back. The OM seems to be out for right now. She keeps saying I don't have to worry about him anymore, I put the stake in that. I know if she gets the chance she would get back with him, but right now he seems out. She's incredibly pissed about me telling her parents. That seems to be the biggest issue right now. Problem with her parents is they are so mad they will not return her call. I'll have to call and talk with them. So this is all text book huh??? And there is really coming back from all this? Seems pretty bleak to me. I think the best thing right now is to just not talk to her about any of this. There is just hate there right now. The other thing is she will not talk to anyone about it.

Yes Patriot, this is ALL straight from the book...5 years ago Mr. W could have written your post about me - I look back and cringe - I can't believe what I put him through - I'll never stop being remorseful for my actions and grateful for his...My first posts on this board were asking if I could ever regain my feelings for him - and I'm embarrassed to say that I also said : "I still have feelings of love for OM" - crybaby puke

I told Mr. W essentially the same things your WW is telling you now - "I feel trapped" - "Okay, fine, you win, I'll stay, but I will NEVER, EVER love you - I hope you're happy!" [ultra cringe]...I'm also ashamed to admit that I cried on Mr. W's shoulder about the *cough*bullcrap*cough* "break-up" sick [massive uber cringe to infinity power]...

And here we are now, 5 years later - and all is better than well - it's amazing - neither of us can believe how close we are - we read Dr. Harley's books - went to the MB weekend - worked the lessons - practice MB daily - and IT WORKS! The goal of MB is to fall [and stay] romantically in love with your spouse - and that's exactly where we are...it's absolutely possible...

And that is how things must go for you - meaning, set the bar high - do not accept a one-sided recovery - MB works if both parties work it - After no contact was firmly established, Mr. W's boundary was stated to me like this : "I refuse to live in a loveless marriage." I believed him...

But that stuff is for later - right now expect that she is gonna be a remorseless - mopey and downright MEAN shrew...sucks, I know, but that is the way it will be for a while...

We got through the withdrawal period by avoiding too many relationship talks - and Mr. W was with me all the time - even when I didn't think I wanted him to be - it was like you describe your WW being "I hate you - don't leave me"... MrRollieEyes

Concentrate on doing FUN things - we went to movies [comedies] - if you can swing it, don't just do things together at night, try to throw in things that you didn't do before - it makes things more "exciting" - "out of the ordinary", so do some matinees and lunches afterward - talk & laugh about the movie you just saw - not anything "deep" just yet - we also went to comedy clubs - Irish sing along pubs - anything where we could have FUN side-by-side without it requiring too much "where do we go from here" stuff...We tried to recreate our "courtship" - mind you that was tough since we were no longer 23 and 25 - lol - but we did it...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS - remember that...

Take a vacation together if you are able - the more you can get away from the mundane, "regular stuff" right now, the better...Frame everything with fun and excitement as best you can...Withdrawal will be more palatable for you both that way...Dream out loud with her about the future - what kinds of things has she always wanted? Indulge her with talk about that stuff...

After the worst of the withdrawal period is over - consider ordering His Needs, Her Needs on CD and take a road trip together to listen to it - pausing to talk at different intervals - Mr. W and I did that - it marked a great break through in our early recovery - to give you an idea of the time line - my affair ended, hmmmmmmm ?end of May/beginning of June? [to show you that it DOES get better, I just had to ask Mr. W exactly when it ended and he couldn't remember either - that is a product of working the MB program, btw - you make so many good memories that the old bad ones fade - THANK GOD!] - anyway, there WAS a brief email contact in July [for which I got my butt handed to me here on the forum - and rightfully so] - We took our road trip and listened to HN/HN in August...things got progressively better from that point on...

I see great hope for your situation, Patriot - Not2Fun is right, someday your WW will absolutely see you as a hero - she will be awed by your grace and mercy...You are doing great...Hang in there...

Mrs. W
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 03:37 PM
Pick up some flowers today. Not roses, but some nice, simple mixed bouquet.... Tell her, "I thought this might cheer US up"......

Not2fun

ps....t/j..... Mark, donchta have a class to go teach or something..... stickout
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 03:49 PM
Patriot,

Awesome post by my wife.

By the way...getting her to go out with you and do something...anything...is often a chore in and of itself.

YOU'LL have to arrange the sitters...
YOU'LL have to make the plans...
YOU'LL have to almost coerce her to get out...

Try to make plans without really consulting her too much as she is depressed and won't want to do anything but wallow in her misery. She is more likely to agree on Tuesday to do something on Friday than if you ask her Friday afternoon...so take advantage of that, make the plans, buy the tickets or whatever such that when Friday comes...she really can't back out.

Movies are good because, like my wife said, there is no talking required. Even scheduling family things to do that she is kinda obligated to go along with are good.

You just want to distract her and start building a new "functionality" for her. YOU are trying to LEAD her out of the funk.

Things are going to be "heavy" for quite some time. These plans you make and the excuse you use to get her out is just that...."we BOTH need a break from this seriousness and drama...let's just go catch a movie and have some fun, without any serious "talks"". Then follow through and don't force deep conversation...just be nice, avoid lovebusters and TRY to be the nice, funny, confident man that you were when you first courted her (ya know...they guy she fell in love with and married to begin with).

There really isn't a reason you shouldn't be holding your head high here. YOU didn't cheat...and YOU are being quite the stand up honorable husband standing by his wife despite what she just did TO YOU. Be proud of yourself for the strength you are exhibiting for her and your family...and allow that "confidence" to shine through. YOU will make it with or without her....whereas, her only real option to the "happiness" she pursues is through YOU. She has no right to divorce you...and will forever be miserable if she does. So you really needn't be desperate or needy. YOU are the strong one here in the much stronger bargaining position....but to save HER and your family you must be prudent, strategic and most of all...PATIENT.

Finally...we are NOT telling you to sweep this all under the rug. You've done well so far standing up for yourself and even removing yourself from conversations that upset you. As time goes by...she'll be more receptive to productive conversation and hopefully to getting on board with a recovery plan. However, right now...she's just mean and hurtful. Hurt people...hurt people. She has to get through this initial hurt before she can focus even a little on anything productive. The fog will continue for many months...even years. YOU even will have and suffer some "Betrayed Spouse Fog"...which, if you'll notice, is a part of "Plan A" ...working on yourself, identifying your emotional needs and the things YOU do/did that are/were lovebusters. Regardless if your marriage works out...take time to focus on and take care of yourself to be the best husband, father and person YOU can be.

Mr. Wondering

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 04:09 PM
She is actually very intelligent....just not right now.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 05:02 PM
Good advise, but there is no way she going to go out right now. She is just soooo angry. She has moments of clarity, then the fog returns. For me the key right now is getting back in the work force and having something else to think about. I really think this will make a big difference for both of us. She wants me to go back and now that an offer has been made, she actually offered to be more flexible with her schedule, as before it was no way. Last night sucked though. She was mad about everything, vacilating back and forth about a divorce. Started out bad, good middle, bad end. Once the subject comes up about the exposure, all hell breaks lose. Then it's I've lived with years of emotional neglect. Your family has never liked me. I try and tell her that I understand and will be better, but it has no effect, even makes her angrier. She is traveling (with her boss) for a few days this week, so we'll see how it goes. Then she is taking the kids to a friends lake house this weekend. I like her friend, but she knows nothing about this and my wife will only tell her about me (no affair talk) and I'm sure her friend will give her the if your not happy move on speach, which may push her over the edge. Up till now she has had little support, but this is the girl she would be leaning on if she takes the position in Houston, so if she is all "you can do it, we can help" talk, it's going to carry a lot of weight. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 05:11 PM
One thing I have noticed about people who are doing things they know to be wrong, they, invariably, find others who will support them in their misdeeds. Thye consistently reject hearing from anyone that disagrees with their course of action. And, they give out misinformation to garner support.
I'd keep exposing, despite the fact that it infuriates her. I think in time, the disapproval wil have an effect on her.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Then she is taking the kids to a friends lake house this weekend. I like her friend, but she knows nothing about this and my wife will only tell her about me (no affair talk) and I'm sure her friend will give her the if your not happy move on speach, which may push her over the edge. Up till now she has had little support, but this is the girl she would be leaning on if she takes the position in Houston, so if she is all "you can do it, we can help" talk, it's going to carry a lot of weight. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Why aren't you going with her and the kids?

If you are worried about what she'll tell her friend, you should talk to her friend first.

Also, you need to be consulting a lawyer TODAY. If she takes that position and brings the kids with her it's already too late. You need to have papers drafted in the event that she decides to move to Houston (unless you are moving with her that is). I still would be hesistant about moving to Houston because you will be giving up your trump card of primary custody. But you would eventually need her to find a job where she doesn't travel as much if you are going to save your marriage. It's a catch 22.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/25/10 07:30 PM
If she goes to Houston, it wouldn't be for a couple months. I think she knows that it will not happen. I have already told her we either both stay here, or she leaves and I keep the kids...PERIOD. I have the resources, law and support on my side so I'm not worried. And yes, I have spoken to an attorney (3 times) but not retained one. As for her friend, she wouldn't talk to me. She's her freind, not mine and she wont take my calls. I'm sure she will omit the finance issue, the affair or anything else negative and say how I have been an emotionaly absent husband and how misrable she is. That I'm trying to take her kids....blah blah blah. So she will have the support of one or two people. Family and mutual friends she has lost. Time will tell.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 03:56 PM
She left this morning for Oklahoma and just called between flights. Very down, very sad sounding. Talked about nothing and I asked her if she was ok, and she said no. I asked if there was anything I could do and she said I can't talk to you about what's bothering me...i.e OM. Her boss has asked her to take some time off, but she has resisted till now. I told her to take time off and go see her parents. I could tell she was hedging but said no. I think that would be a good thing for her right now. Get away from here, and having her family with her might help. Let me ask you Mrs W. how long did it take for you to come back? as your marriage good before that? We have been on rocky ground for a while, so I don't know that the foundation is there. I know for a fact that once I'm working again that it will help. Since she does a lot of work from home, being in each others presence all the time is not good. Yesterday was a pretty good day for her. I was trying to keep active, so I cleaned her car, then I went to her favorite Indian rest. and picked her up some lunch (unanounced) and a few other things and although I was here, I was keeping busy to give some space. She seemed good, very thankful and appreciative for what I did. Now today, the doom is back. I KNOW if he calls, she will go running back. I'm about 90% sure there has been no contact, or perhaps she may have tried to contact him and there was no response. Not being a women and obviously not having the greatest understanding of them, I have been told by some women friends that besides the obvious attraction, women hate for things to end badly, which it did. Tey had a big blow up, hotel security was called to there room and they were seperated. I was told SURPRISE that this to was my fault. That I may not have been there, but I put the bullets in the gun and created the situation. TS!! Then I have to have her calling me at 4am to come get her. "I'm all messed up, I don't know what I'm doing". Then her text to him saying it's over, I'm going home to work on my marriage and I never want to speak with you again". That lasted a day. Then I have to listen to her rationalize the fight and say she started it, that she still loved him.... WTF! Now for the last week she hasen't moved from the couch. Once in a while she perks up, then gone. And I know myself, any more physical contact and it's over. I have no idea how someone could follow this program where you may wait 6 months, allowing your wife to sleep with another man and then taking her back. This is all just so gross.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 04:23 PM
Most people cannot do the 6 months with the spouse banging another, patriot. You are not alone in this. For many people, cheating is a dealbreaker, Harley among them, apparently.
What she is doing is cruel and abusive, have no doubt about that. But, some folks take back spouses that beat them or emottionally abuse them. I do not know how they do it.
It seems the key is for the cheater/abuser to wake up and take steps to fix him/herself before the victim snaps and the point of no return is reached.
I heard on analogy re recovering that made a certain amount of sense to me. The author said recovering from an affair is much like restoring a tire that has gone flat. If attended to relatively quickly, the tire can be patched and restored to some extent. If someone drives on the flat for too long, the tire is shredded and the rim damaged such that it is beyond repair.
The longer your wife abuses you like this, the lower the odds for recovery. But, really, what more can you do. You have exposed and enforced boundaries. Now, the ball is entirely in her court. It is out of your control, now.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She left this morning for Oklahoma and just called between flights. Very down, very sad sounding. Talked about nothing and I asked her if she was ok, and she said no. I asked if there was anything I could do and she said I can't talk to you about what's bothering me...i.e OM. Her boss has asked her to take some time off, but she has resisted till now. I told her to take time off and go see her parents. I could tell she was hedging but said no. I think that would be a good thing for her right now. Get away from here, and having her family with her might help. Let me ask you Mrs W. how long did it take for you to come back? as your marriage good before that? We have been on rocky ground for a while, so I don't know that the foundation is there. I know for a fact that once I'm working again that it will help. Since she does a lot of work from home, being in each others presence all the time is not good. Yesterday was a pretty good day for her. I was trying to keep active, so I cleaned her car, then I went to her favorite Indian rest. and picked her up some lunch (unanounced) and a few other things and although I was here, I was keeping busy to give some space. She seemed good, very thankful and appreciative for what I did. Now today, the doom is back. I KNOW if he calls, she will go running back. I'm about 90% sure there has been no contact, or perhaps she may have tried to contact him and there was no response. Not being a women and obviously not having the greatest understanding of them, I have been told by some women friends that besides the obvious attraction, women hate for things to end badly, which it did. Tey had a big blow up, hotel security was called to there room and they were seperated. I was told SURPRISE that this to was my fault. That I may not have been there, but I put the bullets in the gun and created the situation. TS!! Then I have to have her calling me at 4am to come get her. "I'm all messed up, I don't know what I'm doing". Then her text to him saying it's over, I'm going home to work on my marriage and I never want to speak with you again". That lasted a day. Then I have to listen to her rationalize the fight and say she started it, that she still loved him.... WTF! Now for the last week she hasen't moved from the couch. Once in a while she perks up, then gone. And I know myself, any more physical contact and it's over. I have no idea how someone could follow this program where you may wait 6 months, allowing your wife to sleep with another man and then taking her back. This is all just so gross.

First, should you recover your marriage, that friend of hers that won't take your calls will have to go - any person that is not a friend to the marriage has no business in your lives...

Secondly, while I agree that it would be great if she could take time off from work, I do NOT agree that that time should be used to go visit her parents - NO WAY! You guys must spend that time together! Think about it this way - if you found out that the foundation to your home was crumbling, would you leave and just hope that the problem resolved on it's own, or would you stay there and do all that you could to fix it? You can't work on your marriage if you are apart...

My time line? OM first contacted me in Feb 2005 through classmates.com - [he lived 750 miles away] - March I went to visit my hometown and that is when the affair went physical - D day was in April - In May I went to visit for 2 weeks - stayed in a hotel - yes, I know - GAG - and it is unbelievable that I would do that in the face of Mr. W knowing - just giving you the facts - the affair ended in June - he ended it, because Mr. W and my mother conspired, and plotted together - it was decided that my mom would call him since she had known him for so many years - we had dated off and on for 9 years in high school and college - she threatened him to within in an inch of his life - told him to end it NOW and not tell me why - He ended it the next day without giving me the reason - Mr. W and my mom ROCK!] - All this was unbeknownst to me for more than a year after the affair ended...There was one additional email contact in July of that year - that was the final curtain...I began posting here July 2005...By August I was settled back into our marriage and actively working on recovery...that is not to say that I was completely without fog - that takes much longer...

As for our marriage prior to the affair? It was bad - we were both so detached from each other that it was ridiculous - Mr. W was considering divorce - I was considering suicide [ugh] - Mr. W looked at the possibility of recovery as being a chance to get the marriage he'd always wanted - me too, for that matter...Both of us working the MB program has given us more than we'd ever dreamed our marriage could be...

It can be done, Patriot...

Mrs. W
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 05:05 PM
Her traveling must stop
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Her traveling must stop

DITTO!

Mrs. W
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 05:50 PM
Just out of curiosity , Mrs w, how is it that within less than a month of hearing from this guy, you had sex with him? don't you need some level of emotional attachment for that?
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
don't you need some level of emotional attachment for that?
Ya just don't get it do ya Z

Most waywards, especialy WW's, actually belive they HAVE that emotional connection.

It happened so fast, it's so strong, it MUST be real. He must be the one, or she would not feel this way!! Finally, the WW has found there soulmate.

They belive this Z

Would you agree with that Mrs. W?
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:08 PM
Sorta Gack...The facts are that I had known OM since Jr. High School...I dated him off and on for 9 YEARS [in high school and college] - I had a past sexual history with him...Emotional connection? Yes...

Proves Dr. Harley's theory too...There remains a low burning flame between people that have had such a relationship - one that can be reignited at any time...It is why no contact is critical...

Mrs. W
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:08 PM
Harley has said that anyone can have an A, if the situation is right. I believe it but I think that some people are more predisposed to it than others, one reason being this "instant attraction" attribute. I'm also wired like this (in fact, WW always thought I would be the one to have an A...haha) but it's balanced by a strong sense of morality and integrity. I will admit that there was one time in my life, when I was engaged to WW, that I was very tempted. It took some major self control to avoid a huge mistake. I guess some people only have so much self control and when things get "hot and heavy" then can't pull out (pun intended).
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Sorta Gack
Please don't think I was picking you out as an example, I was talking WW's in general, and wanted your opinion on it as a Fww since I was kinda answering for you in a general way about all WW's


Did that even make a lick of sense? grin
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
Harley has said that anyone can have an A, if the situation is right. I believe it but I think that some people are more predisposed to it than others, one reason being this "instant attraction" attribute. I'm also wired like this (in fact, WW always thought I would be the one to have an A...haha) but it's balanced by a strong sense of morality and integrity. I will admit that there was one time in my life, when I was engaged to WW, that I was very tempted. It took some major self control to avoid a huge mistake. I guess some people only have so much self control and when things get "hot and heavy" then can't pull out (pun intended).

But you must have a PLAN [extraordinary precautions], indarkness...Will power, morality and integrity will NOT alone protect you...The plan must be to never put yourself in temptation's way [boundaries]...If you continue to place yourself in tempting situations, eventually all of those things will fail you...It is playing Russian Roulette...Just because you've gotten lucky and haven't eaten a bullet YET doesn't mean that you won't eventually if you keep playing...So you follow a plan that includes NEVER playing Russian Roulette...

Mrs. W
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Sorta Gack
Please don't think I was picking you out as an example, I was talking WW's in general, and wanted your opinion on it as a Fww since I was kinda answering for you in a general way about all WW's


Did that even make a lick of sense? grin

LOL...Sorta...stickout

Here's the thing, if you understand the concept of the lovebank it all falls into place...When a person allows someone besides their spouse to meet their emotional needs, feelings of romantic love will manifest - the feelings are real...The wayward DOES feel them...That doesn't change that the feelings exist in a fantasy world though - the affair partners are NOT living real day to day life with each other...But the connection typically does exist because of the wayward's choice to allow someone other than their spouse to fill their emotional needs...

Make sense?

Mrs. W
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by Zelmo
don't you need some level of emotional attachment for that?
Ya just don't get it do ya Z

Most waywards, especialy WW's, actually belive they HAVE that emotional connection.

It happened so fast, it's so strong, it MUST be real. He must be the one, or she would not feel this way!! Finally, the WW has found there soulmate.

They belive this Z

Would you agree with that Mrs. W?

The thing i always found contradictory about what my firWW said was how quickly and easily she would engage in such a sacred and intimate act while claiming that she needed an emotional connection to get physical. This is why the rapidity of some of these affairs surprises me. You have a pesron claiming neglect of their emotional or spiritual needs , yet they jump inot bed with virtual strangers, Seems, well, hypocritical or very self deluded, IMO.
Thanks for the clarification on your sitch, Mrs W. Different than my XWW's. She was doing strangers she would meet in bars.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:28 PM
MrsW: I hear ya. This was my WWs downfall - she and OM were innocently having pool days and stuff together - his W was absent and I was absent. I knew it was a bad situation but he was a good friend, so I trusted him (and obviously my WW). So much for trust...
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Sorta Gack
Please don't think I was picking you out as an example, I was talking WW's in general, and wanted your opinion on it as a Fww since I was kinda answering for you in a general way about all WW's


Did that even make a lick of sense? grin

LOL...Sorta...stickout

Here's the thing, if you understand the concept of the lovebank it all falls into place...When a person allows someone besides their spouse to meet their emotional needs, feelings of romantic love will manifest - the feelings are real...The wayward DOES feel them...That doesn't change that the feelings exist in a fantasy world though - the affair partners are NOT living real day to day life with each other...But the connection typically does exist because of the wayward's choice to allow someone other than their spouse to fill their emotional needs...

Make sense?

Mrs. W

Would you say the affair partners have to be dumber than average to buy this, though? It would seem that one's ability to think would interfere with the fantasy.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
MrsW: I hear ya. This was my WWs downfall - she and OM were innocently having pool days and stuff together - his W was absent and I was absent. I knew it was a bad situation but he was a good friend, so I trusted him (and obviously my WW). So much for trust...

It would be EVERYONE'S downfall eventually, indarkness...Do you see that?

It would be like my saying "Hey, I've never gotten a DUI, which PROVES that I am a GREAT drunk driver!" It wouldn't prove that would it? It would prove that I had gotten "lucky" by not getting caught or killing someone............YET!

Mrs. W

P.S. Z, she had issues man!
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Originally Posted by Gack1
Originally Posted by MrsWondering
Sorta Gack
Please don't think I was picking you out as an example, I was talking WW's in general, and wanted your opinion on it as a Fww since I was kinda answering for you in a general way about all WW's


Did that even make a lick of sense? grin

LOL...Sorta...stickout

Here's the thing, if you understand the concept of the lovebank it all falls into place...When a person allows someone besides their spouse to meet their emotional needs, feelings of romantic love will manifest - the feelings are real...The wayward DOES feel them...That doesn't change that the feelings exist in a fantasy world though - the affair partners are NOT living real day to day life with each other...But the connection typically does exist because of the wayward's choice to allow someone other than their spouse to fill their emotional needs...

Make sense?

Mrs. W

Would you say the affair partners have to be dumber than average to buy this, though? It would seem that one's ability to think would interfere with the fantasy.

HUH? So if someone meets your most important emotional needs you don't fall for them Z? I think your track record proves otherwise, doesn't it?

Mrs. W
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:48 PM
Yeah, but I am as dumb as a rock(or was, anyway).
I have to tell you I am mortified by how stupid i was.
Posted By: TravelMonkey Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Just out of curiosity , Mrs w, how is it that within less than a month of hearing from this guy, you had sex with him? don't you need some level of emotional attachment for that?

Just wanted to jump in here. My WS OW was a ONS that hung around the next day.
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Yeah, but I am as dumb as a rock(or was, anyway).
I have to tell you I am mortified by how stupid i was.

DITTO about YOU! rotflmao

No, but seriously...Logic and reason fly out the window in the face of having someone meet your emotional needs...You are to use your logic and reason to PREVENT improper people from meeting them, because once they are met - you're history...

Actually being intelligent hurts in this area as well...Smart people assume they are immune BECAUSE they are smart...or moral...or have integrity...

Many smart people become addicted to cigarettes for example - THEY will be able to quit anytime - unlike those "stupid, weak people"...The truly smart people recognize that they could become addicted and take precautions not to allow that - by never picking up a cigarette in the first place...

Mrs. W
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Would you say the affair partners have to be dumber than average to buy this, though? It would seem that one's ability to think would interfere with the fantasy.


The father of the Theory of Relativity...

Albert Einstein.

One of the smartest men of the 20th Century...

Adulterer...

Einstein's Theory of Infidelity

Intelligence apparently does not make one immune.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 07:00 PM
Know what? I tried like crazy to talk myself out of the affair too...First of all, I KNEW that adultery was WRONG...Then I KNEW that OM was NOT who I would want a future with - the guy was NOT smart - I constantly had to explain words I used to him...He was a racist...lived with his parents at the time of the affair...had zero respect for women...and I SAID all these things OUT LOUD! And yet I couldn't stop myself once I had allowed him to meet important emotional needs of mine...Like a true addict, I used the dreaded double negative phrase, "I can't not do this"...TEEF

Mrs. W

Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 07:05 PM
My second WW is a bigot and [censored], as well. My sisters, especially my less tactful one, get on my case all the time about what I ever saw in her.

I read that about Einstein, as well. Guy was a real piece of work.
Posted By: BCboy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 07:21 PM

Quote
Yeah, but I am as dumb as a rock(or was, anyway).
I have to tell you I am mortified by how stupid i was.

Zelmo
I don't think you can call yourself stupid. After all you have proven to be a capable professional if I recall correctly.

I think we need to understand the difference between emotional need and intellectual capability. I think it is possible for a person to be very high functioning intellectually, yet have a emotional needs of an adolescent. For example if a child grows up in an emotionally turbulent household, where and when do they get those emotional needs met. Sometimes people just survive and get out. Once out they resolve to do better, yet those holes in the sole still exist. It is reasonable to believe we would try and fill those holes by marrying someone we "believe" will fill our most pressing needs. Do we have the basis to choose wisely?

No, we are not choosing using logic, we are choosing based on some emotional trigger that we barely understand.

So sorry Zelmo, I don't buy your stupid argument. However I will buy your attempt to find someone to love you. And you did it the best you knew how, at the time. You are far from stupid. Your actions indicate you have compassion and care, based on how you look after your kids. You like me were never really taught how to pick a good spouse. Our fathers were absent, perhaps not physically but absent in the way a boy needs a Dad.

Sorry Zelmo, can't buy your argument. You still come across as a good man no matter how much you want to run yourself down.

Blessings to you
BCBoy
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
My second WW is a bigot and [censored], as well. My sisters, especially my less tactful one, get on my case all the time about what I ever saw in her.

I read that about Einstein, as well. Guy was a real piece of work.

Right...and you also knew that one of them was a former OW - logic and reason out the window in the face of emotional needs being met - I understand...And I KNOW you are capable of logic because you passed the LSAT - admittedly that sucker would have kicked my hiney! grin

Z, my wish would be for you to learn the entire MB program - With all of my heart I believe it would be not only healing for you, but also would help you to find a truly fulfilling future relationship...

You are a smart guy...Use those smarts and learn this program...you won't regret it...

Mrs. W

P.S. Please accept my sincerest condolences about your mom...((((((Zelmo))))))
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:05 PM
Just got off the phone with the little misses. She was nice and all and towards the end of the conversation she asked why I have been so nice when I have every reason to be angry. I told her I was doing it because I want to and because I'm trying to repair our marriage. She said, I just don't want you to think it changes how I feel. Right now I feel nothing for you and I don't see it changing. I said, it dosen't mean I'm going to change the way I act or the things I do. I said if you are there and want to file, I cannot stop you, but you need to do it. Then it was what if I got an apartment. I told her I would think about it, but now I'm thinking what that meens. I would get a small place until decissions were made and her and kids stay here. But then, she travels all the time, so I would have to stay at the house during the time she is traveling. So the only thing that changes is we don't have to see each other, but I'm still the sitter. Crazy!!! The way she is talking is so final. If we go to court, it is going to be bad. She is thinking joint custody, but she is assuming I will cover when she is out of town. I am thinking I be the primary, but she already made it clear she won't go for that. I know I have the case, but I really don't want to go through all that. I know her well enough to know that she has made up her mind. At least for now. Maybe a move away and then telling her I can be availible on such and such dates, but the rest is up to her to schedule. I know one thing, she wont be able to handle the house kids and a job for long. I know there is the concern about moving out and hurting my case, but it is accually joint custody. I'm kind of leaning in that direction.....any thoughts?
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:06 PM
Actually, both XWWs were OW and Iknew about it. Don't know why this did not make an impression on me, except that I was completley ignorant about cheating. I did not realize how damaging it is and how corrupt. Plus, they were both very good looking. How's that for deep?

I have good candlepower, no doubt. But, BC is right, Growing up in a chaotic, abusive household leaves one with big holes in one's development. For the longest time I thought everyone's dad drove around puking out the car door. Seemed very normal.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:17 PM
Patriot,

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE. She moves if anyone moves. YOu stay. Why? Well it hurts your case for one and that is a big one. Women have an advantage in court and you giving her any more advantage can and will sink you.

Two, you take care of the kids, you are the one around alot, and you are the one that should remain in the house. You live in Austin and the judges there are more liberal which means her adultery will not play much if any factor in their decisions.

Don't move out, let her do it. Then if she insists on going to Houston, you have a home, you are where you need to be.

Pat, she is no position to dictate what YOU do. You protect your children and yourself. Moving out is a bad idea unless you just want to run from the marriage. That is her plan. As you said you cannot stop her,but you can make sure YOU have the control with regard to the kids because you are the one that has been taking care of them.

Please, please don't even consider moving out.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Just got off the phone with the little misses. She was nice and all and towards the end of the conversation she asked why I have been so nice when I have every reason to be angry. I told her I was doing it because I want to and because I'm trying to repair our marriage. She said, I just don't want you to think it changes how I feel. Right now I feel nothing for you and I don't see it changing. I said, it dosen't mean I'm going to change the way I act or the things I do. I said if you are there and want to file, I cannot stop you, but you need to do it. Then it was what if I got an apartment. I told her I would think about it, but now I'm thinking what that meens. I would get a small place until decissions were made and her and kids stay here. But then, she travels all the time, so I would have to stay at the house during the time she is traveling. So the only thing that changes is we don't have to see each other, but I'm still the sitter. Crazy!!! The way she is talking is so final. If we go to court, it is going to be bad. She is thinking joint custody, but she is assuming I will cover when she is out of town. I am thinking I be the primary, but she already made it clear she won't go for that. I know I have the case, but I really don't want to go through all that. I know her well enough to know that she has made up her mind. At least for now. Maybe a move away and then telling her I can be availible on such and such dates, but the rest is up to her to schedule. I know one thing, she wont be able to handle the house kids and a job for long. I know there is the concern about moving out and hurting my case, but it is accually joint custody. I'm kind of leaning in that direction.....any thoughts?

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. If you do, you will give up any position you had.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:19 PM
Pat, you did nothing wrong! Next she might ask you to move out of the bedroom next. Make her do it.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:20 PM
Stay Put.The cheater leaves, if anyone does. Really a bad move to leave.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:24 PM
She's not in the bedroom. I agree, she can go if she wants. Problem there, she would have to suppliment in order for us to stay in the house and she wont do that. I guess we live under the same roof, or she files. I'm not sure how some of the other wives reacted when this happened, but she seems pretty sure right now.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:31 PM
DO NOT MOVE OUT!
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm not sure how some of the other wives reacted when this happened, but she seems pretty sure right now.


She's not sure...at all. A hurricane has just come through and ripped up a whole lot of your life and her life. Everything is emotion right now. This is the withdrawal period. She is going to say things that hurt you. You need to have the wisdom to look beyond what she is saying. There is no instant remorse, it's going to take a while for her to come around (if she does). If you really want to recover the marriage then stop the divorce talk and if she brings it up, steer the conversation the other way.

You need to show ultimate patience right now. Her brain is mush and she's going to say stupid things, just accept that and don't take anything personally.

IMO, the two things you should be concentrating on right now are:

1. Ensuring NC continues. If there is C, then you will know - she'll be all happy and playful. There can be no recovery without NC.

2. Keep your kids safe and happy. Mom ain't providing squat to the kiddos - you need to fill in. This will just endear them to you even more so that if D does come around, you and they will be prepared.

All the other bases (legal, financial, etc.) are covered right now, correct? If so, then just stick with 1 and 2 above until WW works her way through withdrawal. Stick to it, it's really tough but the payoff, in the end, may be worth it.

Oh yeah, and don't move out (but I think you get that by now).
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:40 PM
Pat,

She does not have a choice. If she is fanancially supporting the family she MUST supplement. Even if you got the apartment, she must pay for it. Men are forced to do that all of the time.

If she won't you file. I believe it is true that in Texas there are no legal separations but I think you can file to make her support the family.

Don't you dare wimp out on this. You will lose your marriage and your family if you do. If you hang tough, you have a good chance of keeping the kids and losing the marriage is her choice. YOU MUST HANG TOUGH ON THIS.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: coachswife Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:48 PM
Do not move out of your house- PERIOD.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 08:55 PM
Pat,

Just another thought. She doesn't understand why you are being nice. She did not understand what it took for you to be a stay at home H. She feels those positions are positions of weakness and she is going to try and exploit the fact that you are weak.

If you move out, she will know you are weak and at that point not worthy of respect or marriage to her. I know this is messed up 'logic' but that is often how it goes with women.

You can be nice but you must be tough and resolute about your boundaries. Moving out is out. Allowing contact without consequences is out. Her using the kids is out. Her abusing you is out. You stand your ground. You can be nice, but she needs to see and feel the steel in your backbone before it starts to cross her mind that SHE is the one that really messed up.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 09:30 PM
Just chiming in to reiterate all the great advice you are getting...For sure don't move out! You are the leader of your family...LEAD...She is in heavy conflict right now - IGNORE IT...A simple "no" will suffice when she asks you to move out again...

Patriot, I pulled that baloney...Shortly after OM broke up with me, I told Mr. W I wanted a separation - He very firmly and quietly said, "NO"...I didn't really know what to do with that, I just shut up about it...

My guess here is that OM has completely shut her out - she is in desperate mode - she [wrongly] thinks if she gets you out she can save her affair - it's too late, the damage is done...The fantasy cannot recover from this - The affair is O-V-E-R...

You sit tight and be the leader...if she yells, you whisper...Gentle strength, Patriot, gentle strength...

You can do this...

Mrs. W
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 09:30 PM
When she says, "I'll never go for you having full custody," that means, "I guess I'm stuck being married."

You need to stop talking divorce and separation with her. When she wants to start talking about the issue you just say, you know how I feel about our marriage, so I'm not going to talk about it. Do not discuss these things. Let her wonder what you are thinking and how your feel. This will make her feel more uneasy about moving out of filing. If she doesn't know what you'll do or how you'll react, she'll be less include to take any action. She's poking and prodding for information to see what you'll do if she pushes for divorce, trying to negotiate a favorable outcome for her if that's what she chooses. All she has to know is that you won't accept the destruction of your family and if she pushes for it, you will push for primary custody.

Talking about this stuff is a major love buster, so you don't want to do it. She'll waffle and go back and forth, and in this time you start laying the groundwork and meeting the needs she'll let you meet. If you do that, she'll get more comfortable with you, and she'll start letting you meet more important ones that may cause her to fall back in love with you.

Don't try and talk to or reason with her about your future. She's a mess right now and has no idea what she wants or what she'll do.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 11:18 PM
Another vote on not leaving the residence. She is trying to manipulate a way to get back to those wonderful feelings before exposure.

Here is what I pulled from Atty website

Quote
Do not voluntarily leave the family residence. This could have adverse consequences on your case. Caution: If you are an abused spouse or there exists the possibility of physical violence, do not risk your health. Remove yourself to a safe environment and contact your lawyer immediately.

there is some good stuff in this link for Texas divorce laws - with some key strategies - there are some inconsistent advice compared to MB but thats goes with the territory that an Atty does not want extra drama such as exposure. There main purpose is to win the battle in divorce court and our battle is to save a marriage. However there are some things that strategically destroy you if you fall victim to a manipulative wayward.

Link - Texas Div Info



Here is a sample:

Quote
SEPARATION

Texas does not recognize the legal concept of separation. You are "Married" until a court enters a final decree. Note you can, however, enter into a "Separation Agreement" or "Partition and Exchange Agreement." Your actions at the separation stage can "POINT" the case to it's final outcome. Take the following two examples. Spouse "A" moves out. Leaving Spouse "B" as the primary caregiver of the kids. Later Spouse "A" decides he or she wants the kids. Courts are very cautious and hesitant to change the circumstances of the children. The Court is not likely to change the status quo. If you choose to leave the family residence, stay active in your children's life. Keep in mind, that often the possession and access you and your spouse adopt during the separation, is the possession that the Court orders in the divorce decree.

Spouse "A" moves out and immediately starts moving the money around-activities that appear to be an attempt to hide or secrete money. Absent some compelling reason, the Court will tend to look with disfavor on this activity. On the other hand, if there is good reason to close bank accounts and credit cards, then do not hesitate to do so. Do not be afraid to take control of the finances.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 11:31 PM
When she say's she wants an apt. tell her how is she going to afford the house and the apt.

"I agree, she can go if she wants. Problem there, she would have to suppliment in order for us to stay in the house and she wont do that"

That's why you hire a lawyer at that point.

You also do not move out or let her take the kids.

You move out she will claim you abandoned the family. She gets to change the looks. Keep you from moving back in. Moves the OM into your house. You just made it harder to get custody of the kids, have her pay CS.

Boy O boy does your WW have you trained. How long have you been doing exactly as she tells you?

You have been told not to talk divorce and what do you do you get sucked into lets get an apt. and rotate. Yeah right rotate you out and ounce you are their she will decide she is staying she does not want to rotate.

In the immortal words of the great comic Bugs Bunny: what a morrrooooon.

You need not get yourself sucked in by WW.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/26/10 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
You need to stop talking divorce and separation with her. When she wants to start talking about the issue you just say, you know how I feel about our marriage, so I'm not going to talk about it. Do not discuss these things. Let her wonder what you are thinking and how your feel. This will make her feel more uneasy about moving out of filing. If she doesn't know what you'll do or how you'll react, she'll be less include to take any action. She's poking and prodding for information to see what you'll do if she pushes for divorce, trying to negotiate a favorable outcome for her if that's what she chooses. All she has to know is that you won't accept the destruction of your family and if she pushes for it, you will push for primary custody.

Talking about this stuff is a major love buster, so you don't want to do it. She'll waffle and go back and forth, and in this time you start laying the groundwork and meeting the needs she'll let you meet. If you do that, she'll get more comfortable with you, and she'll start letting you meet more important ones that may cause her to fall back in love with you.

Don't try and talk to or reason with her about your future. She's a mess right now and has no idea what she wants or what she'll do.

This is the best advice in a nutshell that you have gotten on dealing with her. Don't bring up money or finances with her. That is her problem. You are not the one that brought a third party into your M and created this mess.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 01:33 AM
You're right. It's easy to get sucked in when your goated. Each day gets better and easier to deal with. I'm not the most patient person at times, so it goes against my grain....but I'm learning. Hard to be patient with someone who has wronged you so badly. I must say though, I do feel a lot better when I kill her with kindness. It also confuses her and makes her think I'm up to something.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:01 AM
Don't move out. You'll hurt yourself in the legal front.

She was the one who violated the vows. She can move out, but the kids and you stay in the marital home.

Don't talk divorce either. Any talk of moving out or custody or anything of the sort is to be handled by your lawyer. You only talk marriage.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:14 AM
Quote
Hard to be patient with someone who has wronged you so badly.

I hear ya - reason for Plan A time limits. Are you sure the OM didnt make a trip up to OKC as well?

Here's a tip - lovingly detach from her storm. Dont talk about the marriage, separation or divorce. Keep focus on the kids. Go for an outdoor activity this weekend with them.

One thing about Austin - lots of outdoors.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 04:49 AM
Just had a very lengthy, good conversation. She told me he has contacted her. I asked her if she planned on meeting him. She said no-I don't know. She said they were both sad about the way it ended. She then asked what would happen if she did? I told her I had my limits. It's your choice, I'm here for you and I want to work on this, but that is not acceptable. I told her if she felt she would be happy in making a life with him, I cannot stop you, but as long as there is a chance I was going to pursue it. She said I know, but I don't know if there is any coming back from this. I told her I recognize that, but I'm resolute in my belief, I want to fix our marriage but not if he comes back. That I am here for her and am commited to making this better. I told her that only she can decide what is right, but my feelings have not changed. She then told me she was confused, that there is "something wrong with me, that I don't know what I'm doing".

When she mentioned divorce, I told her that was not an option for me, that she would have to do it. She told me that he was not the issue, that it was us. Even if he hadn't shown up, she was very unhappy and was thinking about divorce. She asked if I thought about an apartment and I told her I wasn't going anywhere. She said maybe I should get one. I again said, that is up to you. But I'm staying. She went on about how she didn't want to hurt me anymore. That the reason she had the affair was because she felt our marriage had eroded to a point that she felt it wasn't wrong. I told her that dosen't make it right, but I am fine, that the anger has dissipated and I am more disappointed than anything else. Who knows what she feels. The fact that she calls me every hour I guess is a good thing. I think she knows that there is very little chance that they will ever make it together. But the attraction is fresh and raw and the fact that they only have a chance to see each other every 3 weeks or so makes it enticing. Who the hell wouldn't like a relationship that stays new and has no outside influences? That's tough to compete with. But her offer to get an apartment I think is an opportunity. She dosen't like to be alone, and he is 3 hours away. I go to plan B and I know that would kill her. I accually wish he was closer so he could see what a slob she is and get a taste of what living with her is really like. As I told her, no matter what happens, I will be a better person. Not for her, but for me and my kids.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 01:36 PM
Not time for plan B.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 01:54 PM
Didn't his sister contact you before? Do you have her number? I would re-expose as much as possible. The sister would not be too happy about her brother's continued adultery.

You also mentioned before that you thought he might have closed down his Facebook. In fact, it may still be open, but he might have just blocked you and your W, so you cannot even see that he has a page, and any of your friends on Facebook would not be able to see that he has a page. You could perhaps make a new Facebook contact and look him up to see if he is still on. You could not post to his wall, but you could send emails to his friends.

Quote
She said they were both sad about the way it ended.
That was not a good conversation for her recovery. Not just because of breaking NC. They are not sad because of the way it ended. They are just sad that the fantasy ended.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 01:56 PM
Well what do you do if she gets back with him and wants to get her own place? Tell her no, I want live here... continue to be nice and act like nothing is happening?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 02:10 PM
Yes, you're right about her being sad they are not seeing each other. I'm going to continue with the program. Avoid D talk, be nice and try and create an enviornment that is attractive and inviting. My biggest issue right now is the job. I have two more interviews this week, so hopefully something pans out. If I have a job, it changes everything for me. If I don't have a job, then I have to depend on her and that sucks. I'm about ready to apply for a greeter at Wal Mart (not really):). Well, all I can do is wait and see.I know once I'm back to work, the kids and I will be fine. I can stay in the house, the kids wont be disrupted and that right now is of paramount importance to me. Two weeks ago I don't think I would have said that, but I feel 1000% better about where I am at and what I am doing now, as opposed to then
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 02:45 PM
*****WONDERFULY AWESOME JOB*****

That conversation went EXACTLY how it should have gone.....

Great job...... clap

(notice how YOUR behavior is confusing her???.....it causes her great conflict which is what you want!!!!)

not2fun
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She told me he has contacted her.
How?
When?
Can you stop this?

Any recovery attempt is useless until this stops.
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:04 PM
Pat, I stole this from one of the wisest vets on this board, who posted this on some1 else's thread:
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
IMstrong, the feelings of the OW are completely irrelevant and don't matter. What matters are YOUR FEELINGS. The only thing the OW needs to know is that hell is coming if she doesn't stay away.

Has your H ended his affair? Will he send this skankho a no contact letter as outlined in Surviving an Affair?
This POSOM is inhibiting your ability to R your M. If need be, your W needs to get a new cell phone number so that he cannot call. NC means NC!
Posted By: Crazies Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:06 PM
**edit**
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:10 PM
Her desire to move into her own apartment, or ask you to move out, has precisely one cause:

1. To make room for the other man.

Keep that in mind whenever she wants to talk about this. I really like the "brain substitution" method of coping: whenever my wife uses certain phrases, I substitute what she's actually asking for.

"I need my privacy." Privacy == secrecy to talk to OM without getting caught. She's saying "I need my secrecy to talk to OM without getting caught." Puts things in the right perspective.

"I'm thinking about getting my own place." Getting my own place == moving out so that OM and I can spend more time together without your interference. "I'm thinking about moving out so that OM and I can spend more time together without your interference."

I built a whole dictionary of these substitutions in my journal once... I wonder if I should find it?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:13 PM
Text message. Can I stop it, not really. I asked her if they were going to meet and she said no, then I don't know. I reiterated how I felt and that if she see's him, that she would have to think about leaving. She hedged and said I know, I am just so confused. I said well pull your head out of your a** and see the light. Just kidding, I just listened and chewed on the inside of cheek some more. She has called twice this morning (already) and will propably call throughout the day. The funny thing she keeps asking about is what is my family saying? Has her family contacted me. Do they hate me, how could I ever get back in there good graces. I joked and told her as in mission impossible, they have disavowed any knowledge of her and destroyed any evidence she existed. Then I told he the truth that they wanted things to work out and are just sad and concerned. Thanks again to all who have posted responses, it's been a HUGE help for me. You all ROCK!
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Crazies
Why are you clinging so desparately to someone who doesn't want to be with you?
Crazies, you are a new poster. Have you read the principles of MB yet? Do you understand how A's happen, and the process for R a M? Do you understand the BS's plan? If you did, you would have answered your own question.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Crazies
Why are you clinging so desparately to someone who doesn't want to be with you?

Two posts, made on the day you join as a member, both posts giving advice...although this one is, admittedly, in the form of a question. redflag Do some reading on the site, why don't you, before you hang up your shingle and start dishing out advice.

tl
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:30 PM
Pat, WW knows where you stand. Just be careful you don't sucked into drawn out conversations that go nowhere and rehash the same things to death. When she calls, you can ask things like what sounds good for dinner, if she wants to go to a movie this weekend, if she wants anything in particular for the grocery store, tell her about something funny the kids said or did, etc. Show her you are thinking of her and want her around but that you are doing what you have to do for yourself and the kiddos despite her A and ongoing confusion.

Good job! Keep it up!
Posted By: Mr_Recon6mo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by Crazies
Why are you clinging so desparately to someone who doesn't want to be with you?

Who are you, Crazies?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
. Two weeks ago I don't think I would have said that, but I feel 1000% better about where I am at and what I am doing now, as opposed to then

This s what happens when you take CONTROL of your own life. It brings back your personal integrity and power...... Remember this moment when you feel your emotions getting the best of you.......all this will aide you in your personal recovery

as for everything else she said.......TYPICAL WAYWARD CRAP.....nothing special or out of the ordinary

not2fu
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by ImStaying
Originally Posted by Crazies
Why are you clinging so desparately to someone who doesn't want to be with you?
Crazies, you are a new poster. Have you read the principles of MB yet? Do you understand how A's happen, and the process for R a M? Do you understand the BS's plan? If you did, you would have answered your own question.
She probably wont be here long.
I think MB may be a bit too "traditional" for her or her partner.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=158775&Number=2312629#Post2312629
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by Crazies
Why are you clinging so desparately to someone who doesn't want to be with you?

Why are you clinging so desperately to this forum? naughty
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 04:45 PM
I believe Crazy has been banished for multiple aliases. Who knew? (-:

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 04:48 PM
At least Crazies was aptly named...
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 05:00 PM
Time for re-exposure, especially on the OM front. Make your WW no longer worth the hassle of pursuing. The more you expose, the crazier and more unattractive he got. Continue to put the heat on OM, he will crack.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 05:42 PM
Yup, time to agrivate the OM grin

During Plan-A and my WW's cake eating I thought seriously about building a Cell Phone Jammer cool
(But the FCC kinda frowns on that)
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:04 PM
Well, she is up there with him. She said she was in OKC, but she was in Midland. Now what.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:08 PM
Did you tell her that seeing OM was a boundary of yours that you could not accept her crossing?

How did you find this out?
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:16 PM
It depends. What do you want to do? Is this a dealbreaker for you?
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:21 PM
She has called your bluff. I would rexpose to her parents and OM's GF, sister etc, file and go a very dark PLan-B...But that's just me.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:35 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, she is up there with him. She said she was in OKC, but she was in Midland. Now what.

1) Re-expose.

2) File for D and go for everything, full custody, child support, spousal support, the whole shabang. And make sure to get it automatically deducted from her paycheck.

She'll know you mean business and you can always drop the D if she comes crawling back. This way, the worst you can do is get custody of your children if you do eventually get divorced.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:40 PM
Quote
Are you sure the OM didnt make a trip up to OKC as well?


Reason I mentioned this last night was the tone of her conversation and the fact that Dallas is midway b/n Austin and OKC.

Now instead they went anthr direction to Midland suggests to me that they had this all planned before the trip while you were being duped into thinking there was NC.

Re-expose the hyprocrits to her family. Next I would have conversation with OM that he will not be welcomed around the family and that if thought the last week was too much drama - he is fixin to have a life full of drama.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:41 PM
I agree with Say. If your WW understood that this is a deal-breaker for you, go Plan B. If you waffle on this, she will learn that you don't mean what you say and she'll continue.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:44 PM
I'm not sure what to make of this. I found a hotel reciept for Midland for three days mon-wed. I called the hotel in Midland and they said she checked out. So I called her stores in OKC and they said she was there last night. So it makes no sense. She left here yesterday and I know she flew into OKC, but what about the hotel in Midland???...Very Very strange. My thoughts are she may have booked it before there fight and she didn't cancel. Plus the recipt was sitting right on top of the key pad in our office, so I can't believe (well maybe) that she would be that dumb.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:58 PM
There should be a check-in time on the hotel bill if she checked in vs was a no show. What is the time?
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 06:59 PM
Call the hotel, see if they have a record of her ever actually checking in?

Have you spoken to her today?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 07:14 PM
Did she check in?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 07:33 PM
Okay, false alarm. She booked the room for one of her employees with her credit card.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 07:34 PM
Good. This is why snooping is important. It let's you know what's going on and prevents you from committing fatal LBs in reaction to something you may not have full info on.

Stay patient bro!
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 07:51 PM
Dumb B at the hotel called her and said someone was inquiring into her reservation. Needless to say she went BALISTIC.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 07:53 PM
That's OK. You have every right to know what is going. This is not a LB, just let her know you wanted to make sure she was safe. Remember that WWs throw tantrums all the time. She'll get past this.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:14 PM
Maybe, but she just lost it. I told her it was a natural assumption considering the circumstances, but she had none of it. Told me to mind my own business and stay the F out of her life. Pretty clear. Any good will that garnered over the past two days is completley gone.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Maybe, but she just lost it. I told her it was a natural assumption considering the circumstances, but she had none of it. Told me to mind my own business and stay the F out of her life. Pretty clear. Any good will that garnered over the past two days is completley gone.
No, it is not.

Pat, you have to understand the wayward mindset. You're punching pinholes in her fantasy balloon. Try to remember that you're dealing with an irrational, unthinking alien. She is less likely to remember the specifics of this one little incident in the long run than she is the framed picture the hotel hung over the bed.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:31 PM
She just called again and still furious. I just told her that this (our conversation) was going nowhere and we should talk later. I asked her for one momment to reverse the situation and what would she assume? Having none of that. Told me again, stay out of my life. Just leave me the F alone. End of conversation. Told me that she was feeling better after last night and I had gone and F'ed it up again. No love deposits there.
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Maybe, but she just lost it. I told her it was a natural assumption considering the circumstances, but she had none of it. Told me to mind my own business and stay the F out of her life. Pretty clear. Any good will that garnered over the past two days is completley gone.

Naaaah...she's just pissed that her life isn't being all it could be in lalaland and that you aren't rolling over. Just ignore her.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:33 PM
Just continue to go about your business as though this never happened. You owe her no explanation. It was a perfectly natural reaction by an H who's W promised to love, honor and obey in front of God and both families and then proceeded to lie, cheat and abuse. You have done nothing wrong. Her life is supposed to be your life too.

You are dealing with a complete evil stranger at this point. Let her spew her venom, move out if she must and if in constantly verifying NC you discover that she has lied again...Plan-B. As for now, no change in your Plan-A.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 08:33 PM
Well you can really piss her off by being upbeat when she gets home. dance2
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Dumb B at the hotel called her and said someone was inquiring into her reservation. Needless to say she went BALISTIC.

Well, BIG whoop, right? Let her.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She just called again and still furious. I just told her that this (our conversation) was going nowhere and we should talk later. I asked her for one momment to reverse the situation and what would she assume? Having none of that. Told me again, stay out of my life. Just leave me the F alone. End of conversation. Told me that she was feeling better after last night and I had gone and F'ed it up again. No love deposits there.

This is to be expected. Things aren't going her way. She'll get over it. Expect to hear "I was going to work things out with you but now it's over!" etc. Stay calm and tell her you are working to save your M, regardless of her actions.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/27/10 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She just called again and still furious. I just told her that this (our conversation) was going nowhere and we should talk later. I asked her for one momment to reverse the situation and what would she assume? Having none of that. Told me again, stay out of my life. Just leave me the F alone. End of conversation. Told me that she was feeling better after last night and I had gone and F'ed it up again. No love deposits there.

She is nuttier than a fruitcake. I don't know how this woman functions in society. Dumb as a rock, IMO.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 01:42 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She just called again and still furious. I just told her that this (our conversation) was going nowhere and we should talk later. I asked her for one momment to reverse the situation and what would she assume?

Trying to reason with her is a love buster. You should have just stopped talking to her. You don't need to defend your actions.

Keep checking up on her, just be better about snooping and don't get caught.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 04:30 AM
I just got off the phone with her, went so-so. I was in a somewhat honery mood, so I was being playful and trying to make light of everything. She was having none of it and when I continued, she got madder. She kept saying we're done, there is nothing left. She was mad at hell that I called the hotel, but I said it was a natural reaction. She ranted and raved about what an a-hole I am. I said, well, lets just try and be civil. I said you have made your position crystal clear; you have been back in contact with him, you don't want anything to do with me, so lets just try and be nice until we figure things out. Lot's of fillers, not much else. She hung up and sent a text to me....U Suck!...Nice. I responded with I love you. Then she sent you don't get to act all crazy and expect no response i.e calling a hotel and asking if she was staying there????. To which I said I'm not crazy, I'm in love. I love when I get in these moods because it's like teflon. Say what you want, I'm not going to be bothered. The only thing that made me mad is she called her best freind and told her I was stalking her at her hotel. Her friend thinks I'm the worst person since her x-husband. I said, did you tell her why? She said no, she's my friend. Funny, through all this I have been accepting responsibility and she is telling her friends I'm a stalker and acting crazy. Well, I guess it doesn't matter. Her friend lives in Tennesse and I have never met her. Crazy-Crazy-Crazy!!
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 04:41 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I just got off the phone with her, went so-so. I was in a somewhat honery mood, so I was being playful and trying to make light of everything. She was having none of it and when I continued, she got madder. She kept saying we're done, there is nothing left. She was mad at hell that I called the hotel, but I said it was a natural reaction. She ranted and raved about what an a-hole I am. I said, well, lets just try and be civil. I said you have made your position crystal clear; you have been back in contact with him, you don't want anything to do with me, so lets just try and be nice until we figure things out. Lot's of fillers, not much else. She hung up and sent a text to me....U Suck!...Nice. I responded with I love you. Then she sent you don't get to act all crazy and expect no response i.e calling a hotel and asking if she was staying there????. To which I said I'm not crazy, I'm in love. I love when I get in these moods because it's like teflon. Say what you want, I'm not going to be bothered. The only thing that made me mad is she called her best freind and told her I was stalking her at her hotel. Her friend thinks I'm the worst person since her x-husband. I said, did you tell her why? She said no, she's my friend. Funny, through all this I have been accepting responsibility and she is telling her friends I'm a stalker and acting crazy. Well, I guess it doesn't matter. Her friend lives in Tennesse and I have never met her. Crazy-Crazy-Crazy!!

You are getting caught up in the drama. These back and forths are not helping your situation. As much as you know you are in the right, don't try and convince her and don't act self-righteous about it. Don't talk about your relationship, don't talk about your snooping, if her friend knows, etc. These are all love busters. Just let it go. Suck it up for as long as you can and then go to plan B when the time is right. You will be much more effective if you do this.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 04:43 AM
Good job, Patriot. I believe I would find a way to contact that Tennesse friend. Any support for her present behavior that you can weaken is a plus for your M.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:00 AM
I hear ya, but for each person a differnt response is warented. She is a very assertive person, but she is also secretly insecure. She likes when she can push and soe not like being pushed back. She was all mad because I called the hotel and why would I do this? I (for some reason) explained that she had a problem with role reversal. She said I am just crazy...so on and so on. She sent me that text about u-suck and u-don't get to act all crazy and don't expect me to react. I then sent an e-mail that said I know you hate me right now, but I love you...... sleep well. Her response, "this is productive"? Actually, yes! I know she is all F-ed up about my responses. I wish I could hold this feeling because it's such an enlightenment. Let's see what tomorrow brings.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:08 AM
She's all mad because she knows now that you're not about to be deceived about where she is. IOW, she's going to get caught, and she's trying to bully and intimate you into letting her go back to sneaking around behind your back, thinking everything's good.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:17 PM
Her friend in Tennesse won't help. I know she's the strongest influence on her and I know she's telling her to get out. She thinks I'm a stalker because I called the hotel, not knowing why I did it. Problem now is she is very angry and not thinking strait at all. She usually calls all day long, today..nothing. This is how I see tonight playing out when she gets home. She going to tell me we're done. I am filing for a divorce tommorrow. I want you out...so on and so on. I bought a recorder because she is prone to outburst of anger and does not care who's around. I have a real bad feeling that it's going to take an ugly turn.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I just got off the phone with her

Who called who?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:48 PM
She called me.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She called me.

I thought as much.

Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:52 PM
I think you need to just cut off communication. Nothing you can say at this point will make her see what a jerk she is.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:52 PM
Quote
Her friend thinks I'm the worst person since her x-husband.

Your wife told you this, right?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 05:54 PM
You have no idea what her friend thinks unless told directly by her friend.

Your WW is not a reliable source of data at this time.

She's hysterical and she's upset.


Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 06:00 PM
Pat, this is how it's going to be for a bit. If the OM is truly going to back off as he said he will, then your WW is going to continue through withdrawal, and that's going to take a while. She's going to be angry, sullen, despondent, emotional - just a general wreck. However, every time there is contact, you set the clock back on your progress (how far depends upon the extent of the contact) .

IMO, I think you should call OM again (or was it OMGF...) and get him out of her life, for good. Your WW does not seem to realize what a d-bag this guy is and you can't make her see it, either. Time will do that but only if strict NC is in place.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 07:06 PM
Well, I just wrote her good friend about what's happening. I really feel that reconciliation may not happen, but I'm worried about how she reacts. I don't want her to come home all crazy and stuff, so hopefully her friend can help. She has an exsplosive personality and in her state, she may do something crazy. I hope not, this is already to ugly.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 07:40 PM
Pat,

""She was mad at hell that I called the hotel""

I do not understand why she is so angry that you called the hotel. Does she personally know the person at the hotel and is so deeply humiliated?? think

That being said, why on earth would the person at the hotel call her?? Giving her a heads up that "there could be a problem in paradise??" Does she stay there alot?

If this is just between you and her then her blowing up is a smoke screen for something else. Sounds like she likes to hear herself scream.

Methinks she protests too much. dramaqueen

kirk
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 07:44 PM
""wrote her good friend about what's happening""

VERY AWESOME!! clap clap

This is the continued exposure that results from trying to stop the A. Exposure to close friends is on the list.

You may want to hunker down a little further, cause it will probably be getting uglier, before it starts getting pretty.

kirk
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 07:46 PM
No, they thought I was a stalker. So they called her and her company....idiots. I can't begin to tell you how much this has hurt. I know her and when she gets home tonight she will be ready to end it for good. Her job is her life and she feels they have been involved.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 07:49 PM
If this M goes down, go down swinging.

You 'da man !
Posted By: black_raven Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 08:00 PM
Pull it together Pat. You are getting sucked into the looney tunes world of waywards. Stop trying to explain stuff to WW and worrying about how she will react to this or that. Take a step back and regroup.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
No, they thought I was a stalker. So they called her and her company....idiots. I can't begin to tell you how much this has hurt. I know her and when she gets home tonight she will be ready to end it for good. Her job is her life and she feels they have been involved.


Did you not say you were her husband?

As much as I traveled in the past - my wife would call me at my room. There were times that the city I traveled quite a bit that I couldnt stay at the normal Courtyard and stayed down the road. I am sure she may have contacted them at one time or another.

On the surface and all things being equal - its not terribly strange to try to locate your spouse in a hotel.

Your WW is now making me feel crazy.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 08:44 PM
Have you put a GPS on her vehicle?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 08:52 PM
No, I just asked if was there. They said she just checked out. Then I asked is she forgot to cancel a reservation, would it still show up. They told me no and that was it. They thought I was asking to many questions. She wont return calls, e-mails nothing. Tonight should be a blast. How gross is it that you have to carry a tape recorder in your pocket in case your spose gets violent. This really sucks.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 08:52 PM
Pat,

Be cool, and besides a recorder, you might want to consider a video tape. Just put the machine someplace out of the way. If she is as mad as you think she will not notice it.

Record it via voice and video. But, make sure you get everything. Somehow I doubt she will go that bonkers but perhaps she might. Make sure you stay where you can record what is going on, especially if she become violent.

But, hang in there. You have taken away her drug of choice right now, and as a good script following druggie she is doing her part to convince you and others she is nuts.

Hang in there and be cool.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 09:26 PM
Quote
Tonight should be a blast. How gross is it that you have to carry a tape recorder in your pocket in case your spose gets violent. This really sucks.


Not sure what you mean by WW anger - but you and especially the kids do not need to take it.

If she cant control herself - make sure you have a quick dial to 911 on the ready.

The only thing you need to say is you have every right to know as a husband where mom/wife are staying over night. See recpts for Midland would have confused anyone.

If she wants to argue and go dramatic - remind her (video and recorder are great ideas) that there kids in the house.

dont tolerate any disrespect from a WW - that is nuts to take it like a doormat - dont talk about the future - you need to keep your plans under lock and key for now whether you D or R
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 09:26 PM
Pat,

Your wife sounds just like every other garden-variey wayward spouse....INCLUDING mine. She isn't spouting anything that hasn't already been said before. Yep, my H was done....we were "over".....you are crazy....this is all over my old thread when I was first got here 2 yrs. ago. I have been rumaging around my old thread, looking for something else, when I came across this little gem Mark posted to me.....It helps in dealing with the fog and holding on to your truths....

Originally Posted by Mark1952
Since we know that our wayward spouse has lied to us about the affair and has hidden things from us about the affair and made ridiculous lies about us in order to justify the affair...Why on earth do we as BSs so eagerly believe all of the crap they throw at us?

Alien-babble fog-speak blah-blah-blah...

Think Linus here folks... Wah-wah-wah wah-wah wah-wah-wah...

Fog talk only has as much power over you as you give it. And why does anything a wayward say confound anyone? What he says seems to make no sense and it will drive you nuts trying to figure it out...

Duh!

What about the affair made sense so far? What has he said about the marriage that was really such an awful thing that made what he did justifiable?


Don't debate him. Don't try to convince him or educate him or make him see reason...HE IS NOT BEING REASONABLE!

You have no control over him at all and never did. You only have control over you. You make yourself as good as you can be and let him see the changes. If he doesn't see them, then it is his loss, you are better off because you will be better...

I especially loved the "Charlie Brown Teacher" reference. Once that had been planted in my head, I couldn't get it out. There were even a few times when H would start spewing some silly fogbabbly and I would instantly get a picture of this....I think one time H really did say "Wah wah wah wahhhhhhhhh", I can't remember though!!!!

Anywho, when she talks about you calling the hotel, just reiterate the fact that you are fighting for your marriage, and that you are doing WHATEVER it takes to do that....

If she engages in a temper tanturum, then you could always leave the room. Go to another part of the house. If she follows, go to another room. Or change the subject. If she continues, gather the kids and leave the house. Tell her you will be more than happy to engage with her when she calms down.....

Yes, this stuff will infuriate her, but keep in mind she is not a reasonable person right now.

Do just like you did the other day, and you will come out smelling like roses.....

not2fun
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 09:48 PM
Seconding the suggestions for video and tape recorders. Multiple cameras might be called for depending on your budget. They can always be repurposed as nannycams or security cameras later.

Your descriptions of her lead me to think she may file a bogus DV charge to get you out of the house. She wouldn't be the first, and that kind of thing would really turn any D proceedings and custody issues into an uphill battle. Men accused of DV are guilty until proven innocent.

A call to your lawyer to find out what you can and can't do to defend yourself might be in order.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Just continue to go about your business as though this never happened. You owe her no explanation. It was a perfectly natural reaction by an H who's W promised to love, honor and obey in front of God and both families and then proceeded to lie, cheat and abuse. You have done nothing wrong. Her life is supposed to be your life too.

Patriot,

Quit calling or e-mailing her. Don't engage her or react when she gets home. You are only making this worse.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 10:22 PM
You need to get it clear in your head that checking with the hotel was perfectly normal and Okay. This has been pointed out, but, in the depleted state a BS often finds him/herself, rational thought is often impaired and one can be swayed to believe the idiotic rantings one hears.
It is patently absurd for someone busted as your wife was , someone who has repeatedly lied nad broken vows to have any indignation re being checked up on.
One of the things I found hardest to get over re my XWW's rantings was how incredibly stupid she is to have put forth the argumentthat she could not trust me because I had a PI tail her(amazing, he busted her right away).
See, I think I may have been able toget past her cheating, not sure. But, the embarassment I would feel being married to someone so dumb might have been difficult to get past. No amount of fog could make me say something so incredibly dense as this stuff.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/28/10 10:41 PM
Agree with everyone above -

Not sure a current spouse (who is btw - in the home and taking care of children) can be deemed a stalker in texas.

Tex Atty Gen site => http://www.oag.state.tx.us/victims/stalking.shtml

But I will tell ya - since she is already using the verbiage - I am concerned about a DV setup to night or near future. Beware of this.

On the weather front - if WW is flying or driving from OKC to Austin - we are hvng severe storms with winter conditions and ice north or here in OK. Flights are delayed areound here -
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 02:19 AM
Originally Posted by rwinger
On the weather front - if WW is flying or driving from OKC to Austin - we are hvng severe storms with winter conditions and ice north or here in OK. Flights are delayed areound here -

She'll make it home, no doubt...

She's got foglights

Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
No, I just asked if was there. They said she just checked out. Then I asked is she forgot to cancel a reservation, would it still show up. They told me no and that was it. They thought I was asking to many questions. She wont return calls, e-mails nothing. Tonight should be a blast. How gross is it that you have to carry a tape recorder in your pocket in case your spose gets violent. This really sucks.

When dealing with a WW, consider the tape recorder cheap insurance.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 03:42 AM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Originally Posted by rwinger
On the weather front - if WW is flying or driving from OKC to Austin - we are hvng severe storms with winter conditions and ice north or here in OK. Flights are delayed areound here -

She'll make it home, no doubt...

She's got foglights


too funny LOL

hope Pat is alright
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 12:46 PM
Pat,

We are waiting on the 411.....what happened last night???

not2fun

ps...Mr. Wondering....FOGLIGHTS.... rotflmao
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 02:29 PM
Nothing. I was blown away. She's been cordial, not overly so but cordial. I know she has not seen him because she had his sun glasses in her purse from last week and they are still there. I'm concerned about contacting her friend. She had already told me she didn't want to get involved, but my wife talks to her several times a day and I wanted her to understand the full story. She knew nothing about the excessive spending and affair. Or that it ended (wink wink) last week with security being called in. I just explained to her that I was concerned, that weather or not we make it, she needed some intervention. I told her about the spending and how she has been absent from the kids and such. I don't think she will tell her I contacted but she may be mad enough to influence my wife to leave. She is the person my wife has confided in since we moved to Texas and I know the picture she has is not good. Plus she has been divorced twice, no kids, so she would have no problem telling someone to walk away. Anyway, it's done so I'll have to wait and see if she responds. One funny thing this morning, she was showing me that she burned her back in the tanning bed and it itched. I asked if she wanted me to put some lotion on and she just looked at me and gave an emphatic NO! No nookie for me frown
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 02:43 PM
Patriot, I don't think that you understand the value of exposure. Your exposures last week effectively ended the A. Now you have a WW who is thick in the fog of withdrawal. She may also be feeling some humiliation due to the "accidental" exposure to her work that her H is checking up on her. Good!

This toxic friend that she confides in may turn out to be an ally. The grass is always greener. WW may think that TF's life is just what she wants but it may turn out that TF wants just what WW is giving up, DH, kids, family, nice home. Regardless, you have done NOTHING wrong. WW has. She will be mad if she finds out but it doesn't matter. Continue to act as though you have done nothing wrong (cause you haven't)and do your best plan A.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 03:39 PM
" she has not seen him because she had his sun glasses in her purse from last week and they are still there"

Time to throw though SG's out. They are preventing NC. Their presence has to giving her an OM fix preventing withdrawal as well as triggering you.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 03:46 PM
Put some Ben-Gay in her lotion. Really, this woman is extremely rude.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 04:00 PM
Her friend is in a marriage that my wife dreams about. She and her husband call each other all day, takes lots of trips together and are the picture of marital bliss. So the advise she gets from her is based on her belief that her friend has the perfect marriage. I have never met the women, but she is very loyal to my wife, so the response may be very negative.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 04:24 PM
More drama. I went to the gym this morning and was sitting outside in my car talking to my sister and she pulled up beside me because she left something in there. For her, talking to my sister is the worst thing, so I got the "you've been out here talking to your sister" thing and what are you scheming to do now. Just one day of no drama would be great. Seems like everything I do is backfiring.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 04:49 PM
I think you worry too much about what your cheating wife thinks. She sounds nuts, to an outsider. Why are you on defense here? She's the cheater, right?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 04:53 PM
It's not defending her, it's that I don't want anymore drama. It's everyday and I am so drained right now. I have the kids all the time and I am trying to keep it together for them, but it's hard when I feel like s**t all the time. If I had some extended family here to help, it would be easier, but I don't so I just keep playing nice and try and keep it together.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 05:29 PM
Sorry for what you are going through. I did not mean you defend her. Rather, it seems her bizzare behavior and the things she says are , somewhat taken to heart. Just wanted you to know that just about everything she has said and done is incredibly off the wall stuff.
As I mentioned, I would think one of the hardest aspects of recovery would be looking at your WW and knowing just how capable of stupidity she is.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
For her, talking to my sister is the worst thing,

why is that?? Does she not like your sister? Is there bad blood between them?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 05:41 PM
Yes, they have never been best friends, but my sister sent her an e-mail telling her how hurtful and wrong her actions are and that she should be thinking about her children which sent her over the edge. As for her being nuts....no doubt. One minute she is crying in the phone to me she needs help, the next, cold as ice and mean. I have a job offer in Mass. that I can fall back on. Don't really want to move, but it is an option and the kids would have a large support system there. Crazy stuff.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 05:55 PM
Pat,

""She is the person my wife has confided in since we moved to Texas""

YET....

""She knew nothing about the excessive spending and affair."" think think

So the confiding is whining about you mostly, it sounds like.

If I was the friend I would be hurt and angry for being set up like a stooge for your WW's bi*t#@ing about you all the time.

Good exposure job. This outlet for WW too may pass away.

kirk



Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 06:15 PM
Well good for sis then....... hurray

next time just tell her your sister is doing what she can to support you and the marriage and then walk away......

As far as her being nuts and saying "off the wall" things, that's just your GARDEN VARIETY CAKE-EATING WAYWARD.........nothing unique us bs's haven't seen or heard before
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Sorry for what you are going through. I did not mean you defend her. Rather, it seems her bizzare behavior and the things she says are , somewhat taken to heart. Just wanted you to know that just about everything she has said and done is incredibly off the wall stuff.
As I mentioned, I would think one of the hardest aspects of recovery would be looking at your WW and knowing just how capable of stupidity she is.

You know what?

When I began recovery with my stupid husband, I questioned his integrity, his intelligence, as well as every moment of the previous 14 years of our marriage.

This normal stupidity.
Pat's wife is a woman.
Her stupidity is typical.

Waynerds are all stupid.

It's amazing how much smarter they become after they have time and distance from their adultery.

TST was a fool at first.
Now he's a reasoned/seasoned MB vet.

Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 07:44 PM
I hate to say it but you need to get used to the drama and build up an immunity to it. That is what everyone here talks about with the, "Would you like a cookie," response. You reacting to what she says and trying to explain yourself to her is causing you more stress.

The Massachusettes job offer might be just what she needs to bring her out of her fog if you don't use it for that purpose. Let it come out in conversation on one of her more "human" days or wait til she asks you about your job search.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 08:09 PM
In my sisters e-mail she told her that the kids I were welcome home (MA) were the kids would have an extended family who could help. She went NUTS. Started screaming about over my dead body are you taking my kids...blah blah blah. So no, this would not be a fog lifter. Just had another interview but it would require relocating to Abaline....yuk! So I'm down to 1 interview next week which I'm hopefull about. It's only been a month since I started applying, so it's not time to panic yet.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She went NUTS. Started screaming about over my dead body are you taking my kids...blah blah blah.

Disallow her screaming at you.

Leave the room immediately.

"You do not have the right to scream at me.
When you compose yourself, we will talk."
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by patriot45
She went NUTS. Started screaming about over my dead body are you taking my kids...blah blah blah.

Disallow her screaming at you.

Leave the room immediately.

"You do not have the right to scream at me.
When you compose yourself, we will talk."


Banana cream pie to the face time, IMO.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/29/10 10:43 PM
Hang in there Patriot.

These things shall pass.

Be calm, resolute, and focus on your children and your future.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 04:06 AM
I'm living with sybil. Tonight, she is all talkative and nice and ok. Then she says "I hope you get that job because we need to figure out what we're going to do". FU. I don't know what all this is, but she has obviously been talking to someone. She goes from a major B to all calm and nice. Maybe boy wonder is back in the picture, but I think it's her friend that has her ear and has told her to take a breath and be calm or she loses the kids. This is so unlike her to be calm. It's like a chess match to see who is going to make the next move. I am at a point where as long as I get the kids, I'll be fine. I know this a rouse for something, but I don't know what.
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 04:17 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm living with sybil. Tonight, she is all talkative and nice and ok. Then she says "I hope you get that job because we need to figure out what we're going to do". FU. I don't know what all this is, but she has obviously been talking to someone. She goes from a major B to all calm and nice. Maybe boy wonder is back in the picture, but I think it's her friend that has her ear and has told her to take a breath and be calm or she loses the kids. This is so unlike her to be calm. It's like a chess match to see who is going to make the next move. I am at a point where as long as I get the kids, I'll be fine. I know this a rouse for something, but I don't know what.

I could mean she had contact and things are better in affairland (YOU didn't ruin it like she thought and OM told her to play nice)

I could mean she wants you to get a job so her position in a custody dispute will be stronger

I could mean your Plan A is working on her

I could mean she's taking a break and giving you a break

It could mean the worst of withdrawal is ending (doubt it)

I could mean she's filing a divorce and her attorney told her to calm down and play nice pending him/her getting the petition prepared and filed FIRST.

You could drive yourself batty trying to figure it out which is why I encourage substantial and effective snooping so you have the calmness of knowing exactly what is going on from moment to moment.

Anyway...try to take advantage of these moments to continue your Plan A...delivering the message that you are willing and able to be a better husband and father such that if you ever have to go to Plan B she'll go through withdrawal FROM YOU or if you truly are in early recovery...you'll be making LB deposits such that your recovery can move forward.

Again....try to negotiate a "break" from the turmoil and get her out for some light fun alone.

Good luck this weekend.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 01:16 PM
Well Mr. Wondering, things took a VERY bizare turn last night. She was very nice and very calm and said she wanted to discuss something. She flat out said she wanted a divorce. To which I said I do not and I don't want to talk about it...okay. Now is when it get's bizare. She says her goal coming out of all this is that we remain friends. She said I think we could be best friends, but not if we're married. She said I love you, but not romanticly and I don't think I ever will again. So she has been thinking and has an idea. How about we divorce, but still live together. OMG! I was like really, how does that work? She said nothing changes financially, we are here for the kids, we just have our own lives. You don't bring anyone home and I don't either. So I said what kind of an enviornment is that for the kids. She said we haven't been together in a while anyway, they have no problem with seperate bedrooms. Sounds a lot like what we have now, except we will be divorced and she can have her cake. She admitted she was back in touch with OM, but said she was unsure if she would get back with him. That even if it's not him, she dosen't feel that conection with me and she said I'm the type of person when the switch is off, it stays off. She then went into how she never thought she could love someone as much as she did me. That whoever I meet I need to keep my family out. She said about 25% of our problems came from your family. I have to give her that (not 25%) my family is overwhelming and I wasen't as forcefull as I should have been in backing them down. She gave me the I love him speech and it's not fair to do this to anyone. She told me she has no problem with me seeing other people, in fact she encourages me to. I guess so she wont feel so guilty, that's if she has a concious. As I suspected, the talk of divorce was strongly encouraged by her friend that I sent the e-mail to. She seems to be the only one she listens to. I have 2 more interviews this week for work, if I can get one of those jobs, I will be able to stand on my own and not have to worry so much. Now has anyone out there encountered such a proposal?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well Mr. Wondering, things took a VERY bizare turn last night. She was very nice and very calm and said she wanted to discuss something. She flat out said she wanted a divorce. To which I said I do not and I don't want to talk about it...okay. Now is when it get's bizare. She says her goal coming out of all this is that we remain friends. She said I think we could be best friends, but not if we're married. She said I love you, but not romanticly and I don't think I ever will again. So she has been thinking and has an idea. How about we divorce, but still live together. OMG! I was like really, how does that work? She said nothing changes financially, we are here for the kids, we just have our own lives. You don't bring anyone home and I don't either. So I said what kind of an enviornment is that for the kids. She said we haven't been together in a while anyway, they have no problem with seperate bedrooms. Sounds a lot like what we have now, except we will be divorced and she can have her cake. She admitted she was back in touch with OM, but said she was unsure if she would get back with him. That even if it's not him, she dosen't feel that conection with me and she said I'm the type of person when the switch is off, it stays off. She then went into how she never thought she could love someone as much as she did me. That whoever I meet I need to keep my family out. She said about 25% of our problems came from your family. I have to give her that (not 25%) my family is overwhelming and I wasen't as forcefull as I should have been in backing them down. She gave me the I love him speech and it's not fair to do this to anyone. She told me she has no problem with me seeing other people, in fact she encourages me to. I guess so she wont feel so guilty, that's if she has a concious. As I suspected, the talk of divorce was strongly encouraged by her friend that I sent the e-mail to. She seems to be the only one she listens to. I have 2 more interviews this week for work, if I can get one of those jobs, I will be able to stand on my own and not have to worry so much. Now has anyone out there encountered such a proposal?

Straight, unadulterated fog-babble. Ignore it. Maintain your position - especially your position that your children deserve to be in a home with two loving parents. Period. No immoral drama with mommy having her own room and boyfriends.
Posted By: imagine Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 03:01 PM
This comment of divorce is the same as an open marriage. Your agreeing to this arrangement will bring you to the same depth that she has fallen to.

Have nothing to do with it. It is immoral and despicable.

Continue to expose her contact with OM.

Friendship after divorce is never a great idea unless kids are involved.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well Mr. Wondering, things took a VERY bizare turn last night. She was very nice and very calm and said she wanted to discuss something. She flat out said she wanted a divorce. To which I said I do not and I don't want to talk about it...okay. Now is when it get's bizare. She says her goal coming out of all this is that we remain friends. She said I think we could be best friends, but not if we're married. She said I love you, but not romanticly and I don't think I ever will again. So she has been thinking and has an idea. How about we divorce, but still live together. OMG! I was like really, how does that work? She said nothing changes financially, we are here for the kids, we just have our own lives. You don't bring anyone home and I don't either. So I said what kind of an enviornment is that for the kids. She said we haven't been together in a while anyway, they have no problem with seperate bedrooms. Sounds a lot like what we have now, except we will be divorced and she can have her cake. She admitted she was back in touch with OM, but said she was unsure if she would get back with him. That even if it's not him, she dosen't feel that conection with me and she said I'm the type of person when the switch is off, it stays off. She then went into how she never thought she could love someone as much as she did me. That whoever I meet I need to keep my family out. She said about 25% of our problems came from your family. I have to give her that (not 25%) my family is overwhelming and I wasen't as forcefull as I should have been in backing them down. She gave me the I love him speech and it's not fair to do this to anyone. She told me she has no problem with me seeing other people, in fact she encourages me to. I guess so she wont feel so guilty, that's if she has a concious. As I suspected, the talk of divorce was strongly encouraged by her friend that I sent the e-mail to. She seems to be the only one she listens to. I have 2 more interviews this week for work, if I can get one of those jobs, I will be able to stand on my own and not have to worry so much. Now has anyone out there encountered such a proposal?

Calmly tell her that is not the way divorce will be. If we divorce, I will hate you forever for breaking up our family and throwing away the X number of years we had together. Divorce will not be amicable, and I will fight for everything within my rights. I hate to burst your little bubble.

You said you loved me once and that you never thought you could love anyone more. I'm telling you it is possible, a marriage counselor would tell you it's possible, and many couples who have been through the exact same situation would tell you it is possible. However, it is not possible with other parties in the picture, and it will take a some work which I'm sure you want nothing to do with right now. Let me ask you this, if working on your marriage for the next two years could give you the marriage you have always wanted and keep your children in a loving two-parent household, wouldn't that be an ideal outcome? I know you don't think it is possible, but I could put you in touch with plenty of women who felt the same way you do and are now happier than they have ever been with their husband. I know I've made some mistakes in this marriage, and I am willing to work on them, even after getting stabbed in the heart. If things didn't work out after a couple of years we can always hold our head up high and tell our kids we tried EVERYTHING.

So, here are your realistic options:

1) Cut off all contact w/ OM, got to MC and work on our marriage to try and make this the marriage you have always wanted.

2) A bitter contested divorced with no further relationship with me other than seeing each other at kid exchanges.

You decide which is more appealing to you. I know I'd prefer option 1.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 04:23 PM
When say say's you can date. Tell her married people do not date.

The lets divorce and be friends and roomates is just to keep living the good life on your money.

The OM has shown that he will not give WW financial support and standard of living she wants and you can provide.

No to being friends after the D. Just NC.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 04:30 PM
Patriot --

This is not bizarre. This is CLASSIC. It is almost exactly the same deal I tried to get with my XBH.

She wants to be a cake eater. She wants to have a husband AND a boyfriend. She would prefer NOT to make a choice or change her life in any way. And she would REALLY prefer not to be the bad guy in all of this. So would you please go along with her crazy plan???

You need to give EXACTLY the message that Jim just described.
I would go even stronger on option 2, except I would not use the word "bitter." (WW thrive on describing their victim that way....) I would simply tell her that there will be no friendship. That you choose to have friends that do not lie, deceive and cheat, and she definitely doesn't qualify.
Tell her you will be FINE in the future. If you divorce, everyone will know the real reason why. And you will never speak to her again. Show CONFIDENCE.

Here is the attitudes you should project:

Option 1: I am willing to work on the marriage, although I have great reservations about your ability to be marriage material -- but I am willing to TRY for the sake of the children.

Option 2: Strength and CONFIDENCE. You have learned the tools to make a great relationship. If she doesn't want the benefits of that, someone else will. Make her picture the future. Where her kids HATE OM (because they know he is the evil that destroyed their family) contrasted by your future, where you meet someone else -- do everything right, and your kids are HAPPY with you and LIKE their new stepmom. BELIEVE ME, she does NOT want her kids to have a stepmom, and will be very very threatened by that image! Not only that, make her picture the kids events where her reputation proceeds her, and everyone sides with you. Kids soccer games where she is an outcast, while you are embraced and surrounded by friends.

Get the idea?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 05:13 PM
The following was written by AheadOfTheCurve. He said this to his WW when she asked if they could "still be friends" after the divorce:


Quote
1. I would never ever be in the same room with her again. Ever. For any reason.


2. I would never speak to her again. Ever. For any reason.


3. I would never speak of her to the kids. Ever. For any reason.


4. Ask the kids to never speak of her to me. Ever. For any reason.


5. And I told her that she would be dead to me.

It shocked his WW - with an ice cold reality check.


Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 07:50 PM
Pat,

Originally Posted by patriot45
Well Mr. Wondering, things took a VERY bizare turn last night.

Of course its BIZARRE.......all of this would be very bizarre to a normal, well-functioning person, which your WW is NOT. Of course, to rest of us here, well, no so much.....

Originally Posted by pat
She was very nice and very calm and said she wanted to discuss something. She flat out said she wanted a divorce. To which I said I do not and I don't want to talk about it...okay. Now is when it get's bizare. She says her goal coming out of all this is that we remain friends. She said I think we could be best friends, but not if we're married.

I know this is all very painful to you, but I truly had to laugh when I read this....WHY???...because it is straight out of the "Wayward's Guide to a Friendly Divorce" handbook. Yep, count me in as another BS who heard these EXACT SAME WORDS!!!!! (I would be so refreshing if a wayward could actually spew something original, but, alas, in their fog-induced mushy brain it just isn't possible....)


Originally Posted by pat
She said I love you, but not romanticly and I don't think I ever will again.

Yep, heard that one as well...... sigh

Originally Posted by pat
So she has been thinking and has an idea. How about we divorce, but still live together. OMG! I was like really, how does that work? She said nothing changes financially, we are here for the kids, we just have our own lives. You don't bring anyone home and I don't either. So I said what kind of an enviornment is that for the kids. She said we haven't been together in a while anyway, they have no problem with seperate bedrooms. Sounds a lot like what we have now, except we will be divorced and she can have her cake. She admitted she was back in touch with OM, but said she was unsure if she would get back with him.

yep....WW loves eatting all that yummy cake....sounds like she even wants some extra frosting on that......

As far as you two sleeping in separate bedrooms not affecting the kids, she is SOOOOOO blindly wrong. The kids are taking in every little thing that is going on. You can bet your bottom dollar this is affecting them.....(((((Pat's kiddies))))....how ARE they handling this BTW???

Originally Posted by pat
That even if it's not him, she dosen't feel that conection with me

This would be fogline #5. Man, you really got a handfull yesterday. Is it still hard to see in the house this morning???....oh, and yep, heard this one....to which the proper reply is "we can get that back"

Originally Posted by pat
and she said I'm the type of person when the switch is off, it stays off. She then went into how she never thought she could love someone as much as she did me. That whoever I meet I need to keep my family out. She said about 25% of our problems came from your family.

I love how she is giving YOU dating advice. Sorta like they NEED you to stoop to their level, which of course is needed to help them feel better about what they are doing......while you should (and did) take note on what she said about your family, she is again, blameshifting......

Originally Posted by pat
She gave me the I love him speech and it's not fair to do this to anyone. She told me she has no problem with me seeing other people, in fact she encourages me to. I guess so she wont feel so guilty, that's if she has a concious.

Yep, needs to get rid of that pesky guilt. It doesn't sit well in "Affairland".......and well, she is right. This ISN'T right to do this to anyone, but its a little late for that....

Originally Posted by pat
As I suspected, the talk of divorce was strongly encouraged by her friend that I sent the e-mail to. She seems to be the only one she listens to.

How do you know this?? Have you talked to the friend? Until you do, do not assume anything. Also, I would email this friend again, telling her how much you love your wife and want to do everything you can to keep your family intact. That this would be the optimal solution for your children.....

Originally Posted by pat
Now has anyone out there encountered such a proposal?

As you can see from your responses, yes. My H said nearly the same things (more than once, so don't be surprised when you hear it again....), to which I replied that I will not talk divorce, my lawyer will handle that. That we would never be friends because I needed a husband not a friend. That is proposal was NOT an option for me......all stated as matter of fact, no emotion, no negotiating.

And then I would follow up with, if you want to return and repair this marriage, then you need to write OW a NC letter, give me access to his phone bills, email and financial accounts. I would use these discussions to start laying down the requirements I NEEDED in order to start Recovery. Again, this was stated unemotionally, matter of fact. You need to appear as the sane person.....even if your world is turning upside down....

Yep Pat, your WW is your garden variety CAKE-EATER.....seen it a million times.....

Hang in there you seem to be handling this wonderfully.....

not2fun
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 01/30/10 10:32 PM
Pat,

This is a standard fantasy.

Your response to this is simple:

"If we divorce, we will not be friends. I will not want to have anything to do with you and what you're proposing is a demented fantasy that isn't possible. I will work on our marriage and save it. It's that or divorce, which means we won't be friends."

My ex had the same dumb fantasy. Kill it. It's not reality.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 12:33 AM
She was not home today, she and my daughter went to a friends for the night, so no drama. A girl friend of mine from Cincinnati called my cell this morning and I filled her in (somewhat) on what was happening. I told her we were having problems and may be divorcing. When I got home my wife said she had called. She asked if I talked to her and I said yes. She asked if I told her about us? I said yes, I told her we were having problems and there was a good chance we were getting divorced. She looked at me and asked why I had told her that when no decission had been made. Okay, last night you told me in no uncertain terms that it was over and made that insane proposal. (I didn't say that, I just gave her a crazy look). Then she asked me to put lotion on her back....closet I get to congical. I was amazed she let me touch her, I feel so privleged. Ya, that proposal was made about 10 minutes before I went to bed last night and it took me about 2 sec. to realize what and insane idea that is.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 02:22 AM
Hi Pat,

Are you enjoying the comedy yet? wink

Seriously, I don't have much to offer to the excellent advice, but just thought you might want to soften up your response beyond "not only NO!, but he** NO!. You will never be friends with you at best you will be civil with her around the kids. Is that soft enough? smile

Seriously, you clearly see she wants her baby sitter, she wants her cook, her house cleaner, Oh! and general handyman, but she really doesn't want to associate with the "hired help."

That would be you, in case you were confused.

Hang in there it will get nuttier.

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 03:14 AM
Ya, I know. This plan A is a little confusing, or maybe I'm just daft. In my case she is back in contact with OM. Now what are the options here. Continue with plan A while she has a relation, or go to plan B and ask her to leave. Seems like they say continue plan A...yuk! And what (she already said no) if she wont leave. Do you enact plan B while living together.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 04:55 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Ya, I know. This plan A is a little confusing, or maybe I'm just daft.

What are you confused about??..For being confused, you are doing an awfully great job....


Originally Posted by pat
In my case she is back in contact with OM. Now what are the options here. Continue with plan A while she has a relation, or go to plan B and ask her to leave. Seems like they say continue plan A...yuk! And what (she already said no) if she wont leave. Do you enact plan B while living together.

I would continue to Plan A....which, what EN'S are you meeting?....Don't forget the carrot of Plan A. It goes hand in hand with the stick. What is your time line for continueing it??...are you going to do for one more week??...a month???...two months???...

The other thing you need to be doing is spelling out a PLAN for Recovery. Giving her a way back to the marriage. Which includes, ending the affair, sending the NO CONTACT letter, giving all passwords to email accounts, cell phone bills, and most definately some counseling, preferably with the Harley's.

IMO, you need to start putting these out there for her.....

not2fun
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 07:55 AM
Pat,

Plan A has a finite lifetime. For men it can be up to 6 months. But the real evaluation points should be every month or so. What are you looking for? You are checking to see if your Love Bank is getting empty. If it empties your marriage will end because you won't have enough in the tank to endure recovery. And recovery is NOT FOR WIMPS.

I would say do plan A for a month and then evaluate yourself, your energy, and her behavior. Are you seeing little baby steps? If so, keep going. If not and your tank is very very low then it might be time for plan B.

Harley states that most men go to plan B too late. Don't make that mistake.

Also plan A often does not end the affair, but what it does do is plant seeds. And these seeds can grow and become the desire for her to come back. So keep planting seeds, set up a time for reevaluation, don't tell her your time table on any of this.

Just hang in there. This is tough but you won't regret it no matter how it works out. You will be able to look at your children and tell them that you did ALL you could do to preserve their family for them.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 01:50 PM
I would say my time line is about 1 month. Now what about if we are still having to live together? How is Plan B possible. I have told her/done all those things. I have told her what it could be like, how/what I will do and what she needs to do. Of course she said I don't know why your telling me this because we are done. Yet she will not file.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 02:45 PM
What en's. Well, I have tryed to show her how things could be. I have been attentive, going out of my way to be nice. We have accually talked a whole lot more than we have in years. I have shown her support and I have shown her that I am willing to forgive and that I really want this to work. This is the confusing part to her because she keeps saying "how can you forgive me? How is there any coming back from this?" I still have feelings for another man.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I would say my time line is about 1 month. Now what about if we are still having to live together? How is Plan B possible. I have told her/done all those things. I have told her what it could be like, how/what I will do and what she needs to do. Of course she said I don't know why your telling me this because we are done. Yet she will not file.
I think not filing is in one of the chapters of the Wayward's Handbook for Clouded Thinking�. By forcing the BS to file, the WS gets "justification" for their unjustifiable behavior. It's sort of the "killing blow" to their destruction of the M.

They can then go about the world telling everyone that their BS divorced them and that somehow turns them from predator to victim.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
What en's. Well, I have tryed to show her how things could be. I have been attentive, going out of my way to be nice. We have accually talked a whole lot more than we have in years. I have shown her support and I have shown her that I am willing to forgive and that I really want this to work. This is the confusing part to her because she keeps saying "how can you forgive me? How is there any coming back from this?" I still have feelings for another man.

Pat,

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? Or any of Dr. Harley's books?

From what you wrote it doesn't sound like you are sure what her EN'S are......Here's a link to the Emotional Needs section

www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Read up and tell us what you think her top 3 emotional needs are. To do this think back to what things you did in the past that made her happy, think of conversations where she may have told you things that you don't do for her......

You are doing wonderfully well in all of this. It helps when you have a PLAN, doesn't it???

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 03:51 PM
Not2Fun: I understand what en's are, but right now she is not receptive to them, so I am trying to do what I can to show her what life CAN be like. I have shown her that I want to meet those needs of love and admiration and sexual gratification, but unfortunatly, someone else is in the way. So, all I can do is lay the ground work, show her I am serious and continue to work at it. Really, the ball is in her court right now. She is vacillating back and forth about divorce and when I put the burden on her, she dosen't like it. Her reaction yesterday when I told a friend of mine that we may be getting a divorce was perplexing. The night before we are totally done and the next morning she says "why are you telling people that when nothing has been decided". We are totally done, I want a divorce and there is no chance for recovery are not ambiguious comments. Yet she cannot let go of this guy. I know it's going to take a great deal of time and energy on my part to get through that, but rehashing the same old stuff does no good. I have laid it out for her. I told her the options are reconsiliation (or attempt) and told her my plans and what I need, to which she says no-way...okay. Two: She can move out...no to that. Or she can file and have a non amicable ugly divorce...no to that. She has not seen him, I'm 99% sure of that, but they still text/talk. I have exposed, called him, done all I can to break this up. I am not going to turn into some crazy stalker and gps her or anything. She knows if she stays with himand our marriage ends, she will lose the support of family and friends. That she will be viewed as the villan and I the victim. So what else is there to do but wait.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 03:53 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Pat,

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? Or any of Dr. Harley's books?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 04:09 PM
Yes, surviving an affair.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 04:16 PM
Quote
So what else is there to do but wait.

Plan A.
It's not waiting.
It's demonstrating the best "you" possible, without expectations.
Plan A.
It's not about WW, it's all about you.
Plan A.
It is you growing and learning.

If WW wants to remain married to such an awesome Plan-A'er ... she's got to step up her game.

If she does not ... Plan B.
Which is also all about you.

Plan A is not waiting.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 04:49 PM
So, what are HER top 3 EN's??......I ask because we can help you step up your game in this. I loved the invaluable information and suggestions I got from everyone here that helped me to step up my "A game"..... wink

I sense some frusteration in you post to me. I wasn't try to do that, I only asked the questions because I was unsure of the answers. I remember being aggravated at times by having to remind people of my situation, but I now realize that its only because sometimes its hard to keep every person you post to straight...... grin

And for what its worth, I do think you are doing a marvelous job thus far.......

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 05:06 PM
Not2fun: No frustration at all...I very much appreciate the advise. I would say her top three are admiration, affection and either conversation or sexual fulfilment. Admiration, affection and conversation are the things I can and am providing. Sex is out of the question. Honestly she is a very sexual person, so if he is there meeting that, it goes a long way (I know, gross). She'll be home this afternoon, so we'll see what she is feeling. One other small ray of sunshine. Friends of ours are having a Super Bowl party, so I told her I was going. She asked if she was invited and I said of course, but I didn't think you would want to go. To my surprise she said she did. Baby steps... We'll see how she feels next week.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 01/31/10 05:11 PM
If she does go to the SB party, make sure you say something really complimentary about your wife to one or two people at the party.

Especially someone who is likely to repeat it to your wife.

(admiration)


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 03:34 AM
Tonight was ugly. The day was fine, all good. Then the divorce talk starts. I said I don't want to do this everyday. My position has not changed and I don't want to talk about it. She then asks about that immoral proposal to which I said absolutly not. Then she says it has nothing to do with OM, that she has been unhappy for years. I said I cannot stop you but it's not what I want. Then she said you're going to fight me in court aren't you. I said if it comes to that I will. Of course this all came about because her "friends" told her that she needs to be happy. That if he makes her happy she should go. They said my exposure and being nice is my way of manipulating things. I said, they shouldn't judge until they have walked in my shoes. Wonder if they would say that if it happened to them. I don't know guys, this seemed really final tonight. I finally said I don't want to talk about this...never yelling and went for a walk. I came back and she said I'm filing, I cannot stand this anymore. Can I be anymore clear, I don't love you and want out. I really don't know what I am fighting for anymore.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 03:38 AM
All waywards do this.

She cannot stand the fact that you are not the demon she needs you to be for her to justify what she's been doing.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 03:49 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Tonight was ugly. The day was fine, all good. Then the divorce talk starts. I said I don't want to do this everyday. My position has not changed and I don't want to talk about it. She then asks about that immoral proposal to which I said absolutly not. Then she says it has nothing to do with OM, that she has been unhappy for years. I said I cannot stop you but it's not what I want. Then she said you're going to fight me in court aren't you. I said if it comes to that I will. Of course this all came about because her "friends" told her that she needs to be happy. That if he makes her happy she should go. They said my exposure and being nice is my way of manipulating things. I said, they shouldn't judge until they have walked in my shoes. Wonder if they would say that if it happened to them. I don't know guys, this seemed really final tonight. I finally said I don't want to talk about this...never yelling and went for a walk. I came back and she said I'm filing, I cannot stand this anymore. Can I be anymore clear, I don't love you and want out. I really don't know what I am fighting for anymore.

She's just waying the pros and cons of staying married now. She was trying to manipulate you into getting what she wanted, an easy divorce with the terms that she wants. She realizes now that isn't going to be an option. She's ticked because she can't get what she wants. Now she realizes it is either stay and work on the marriage or get screwed in a divorce. It's good that she now has to start thinking about consequences.

She still hasn't figured out whether or not she's going to file, she just said that tonight to hurt you because she's made at you. Keep hanging in there. She's wanting you to flip so she can justify moving on. If you keep up plan A just a little longer, you may start to see some positive developments.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 03:56 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I really don't know what I am fighting for anymore.

YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR MARRIAGE

Clear enough? One temper tantrum of a foggy wayward shouldn't discourage that. It is hard to listen to all of this "It's over. We are done." talk and not say, "WHAT AM I DOING?" especially with the fact that many people in your regular life are probably telling you to give up. That's why we are here. We are here to remind you that it IS possible. Follow the steps and you MAY have a chance to save your M and that is why you are doing all of this. This is what you want for yourself. Plan A is really hard on you emotionally which is why it temporary. Plan B is harder in some ways but emotionally it is different. The rollercoaster isn't as up and down.

Keep it up you are doing great.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 12:42 PM
I hear ya. I just wish her so called friends would stay out! I know they are her friends and all, but to say "do what makes you happy" is such BS! What if we all did what makes us happy at the moment, it would be anarchy. We are all responsible for our actions and that part of the equation seems to be lost on these people. I REALLY hope the people giving her advise have to deal with this themselves someday.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 01:01 PM
One, WW is trying to manipulate you into giving up.

You want to save your marriage then don't give up. I think you should not quit fighting. If WW wanted out she would of filed. She has not. She is all talk. Use this time wisely.

Stop answering any remark about divorce.

WW says I want a divorce

BH say whats for dinner, want to go for a ride, lets watch a dvd.

BH never says I don't want a divorce. See you just had a divorce conversation.

WW says Brings up I want an open marriage again.

BH says I'm going to the park want to come. I'm going to the store you need anything.

BH never responds to this subject because BH has already addressed this subject and there is no need to restate his position.

BH must cut his WW off at the pass.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 02:24 PM
One thing I learned in my process is that is very easy for "friends" to give advice when you have nothing invested in the realationship. My exWW confided in the friends that told her to do what makes you happy, follow your heart, etc. She went ballistic on family members who told her to really think about what she was doing.

You see, the family members had an investment. If exWW crashed hard, they would be the ones who would have to help pick up the pieces. THey are the ones who have a permanent relationship with exWW and the kids. Thus, they gave advice such as work on the marriage, dump the OM, etc. Her friends, did not have the long term invenstment.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 02:46 PM
Pat, your wife's behavior reminds me very much of my XWW's. She had the "friends", a bunch of lowlifes, urging her to go after the OM. I was demonized to them, I am sure.
And, my XWW was forcing my hand, basically telling me that if I did not file , she would.
I remember after I had the papers drawn up, I was hesitating on serving her. I aksed he one last time "Are you sure you do not want to try to get past this and go to counseling?"
She refused and told me to serve her or she would serve me. So, I did and we are divorced.
Her life is now a mess. The OM lasted about a year, then they were at each other's throats.
She once, in passing, told me "maybe I should have gone to counseling". Too late, however. I had moved on and she had done way too much damage.
At some point, one has to decide when one has had enough of the abuse. You are, apparently, not at that point, yet.
Sounds like you are doing a good job keeping your cool in the face of blatant disrespect. This will serve you well, regardless of whether you divorce or remain married. You will be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know you acted honorably.
Your wife's "friends" are truly idiots who think they know the whole story.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 04:00 PM
Pat - use loving detachment - borrowed this term bc it is a way to stay in sane (I should say keep your sanity) during the crazy times.

while detaching I also think you can continue to re-expose to WW family as well if there is continued contact

Are they going to meet up this week in another city? what are her travel plans? Her next trip?

Here is an idea borrowed from another post:

Send her a text message if you know they are to meet up, at precisely the time they are to meet.

"I hope this is all worth it to you. Really, enjoy. We will have a lot to talk about when you get back."

Might get the OM to do another angry outburst - I see it as his weakness and if it requires it - exploit it. Anything to make the A uncomfortable place to be in while keeping the M and home a better place.

She already knows the home is better place bc of the open marriage proposal - she doesnt want to leave the security of someone taking care of home and kids.

Just some random thoughts
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 05:33 PM
1. You need to start agrivating OM again ASAP!

2. Have YOU personally spoken directly to her "Freinds" and heard this? If not, she is lying to you about what her "Freinds" say.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by Gack1
1. You need to start agrivating OM again ASAP!

Good advice.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 07:44 PM
"180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/01/10 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I hear ya. I just wish her so called friends would stay out! I know they are her friends and all, but to say "do what makes you happy" is such BS!

Pat,

Where are you getting this information??...WW???.....If so, let me repeat....DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!!!! She is an ADDICT, who will say and do ANYTHING to get her fix. Including dragging others through the mud, never mind their reputations.

Unless, you have tangable proof of this (ie...them point-blank telling you, emails to you or her, letters, VM....), then do not buy into this load of garbage.

MOST, yes there are exceptions, good, moral people do not say such drivel. If they do, usually they do not have the whole story and do not have an idea of an AP.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, my H said the same things. "So and so thinks this is okay."...."So and so said you were such a bad wife, they don't blame me for doing this..."....yeah, well, when it was all said and done and I confronted "So and so", turns out it wasn't true. And I had emails to H contradicting his very statements.

H lost some good friends by him having their integrity called into question......

She's only telling you what she thinks will be the final straw to break you......fortunately you have us, the "BTDT crew"..... grin

not2fun

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 12:51 PM
I know you're right about what she says, I'll try and remember that. Yesterday I was on the phone with an old friend and she asked who I was talking to so I told her. She says (again) did you tell him about us. I said yes. What did you say? I said we were having problems and you wanted a divorce. Then I get why would you tell him that when nothing has been decided. Well Sibil, it sounded pretty clear to me, but I wont say that anymore. Obviously I didn't say Sibil, but it would be an appropriate comparison. No drama yesterday other than that. Had another offer, not enough$$ so I am still looking. I will feel a lot more secure when I have a full time job.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 06:53 PM
Well, very very ugly day. She somehow got into my e-mail and saw that I had asked people for affidavids about who was the more responsible parent. She saw the e-mail I sent to her friend. LOST it. I recorded it all and it's pretty bad. I have NO idea what she is going to do. She was babling about how a couple days ago she broke it off completly, that the she was all set to end everything and now she finds I have been sneaking around behind her back. I tried to explain that I didn't know what she was going to do. That I was only cover my butt ib case she left. She said you F'ed up good this time. Everytime I begin to feel something for you, you screw it up. You are your own worst enemy. So on and so on. Lots of other talk, but you get the gist. One e-mail she found, I guess I called her a [censored] to someone. Even though she was acting like one, I had to her about that. When will the drama end.....
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:02 PM
The rantings of an idiot. Ignore her garbage.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:07 PM
Pat,

Have you ever considered calmly looking her in the eye and saying: "I want you to listen to me for once in your life. You messed up big time, you broke the vows you made to me, you made to yourself, and you made to our families, not to mention God. All that has happened is a consequence of your choices and actions. If you don't like the consequences stop the behavior. I am standing her because I believe in forgiveness and our marriage. I will not stand here much longer being blamed for decisions I had no part in and no say in."

And then calmly walk off. She is a petulant child and she is still wayward and fog bound. She is not unusual really, but her sense of entitlement is rather large when compared to many WS's.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by Just Learning
but her sense of entitlement is rather large when compared to many WS's.

I have to disagree with this JL........she is not any different than any other selfish and entitled wayward. It it the very essence of waywardness. His wife has not said or done anything any other wayward has. She sounds just like my H did, whom Mimi said sounded like her H, whom Mortarman said sounded like his wife.

Just a garden variety wayward......no more, no less.....

Pat, I love the statement JL gave you. Remember your mantra "I doing everything necessary to save our marriage and protect our family....."

not2fun

ps.....IF I have a dollar for every time my H had told me *I* f'ed up and he was done, I could have funded the divorce on that alone, HAD it come to that......

And this too shall pass my friend
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
The rantings of an idiot. Ignore her garbage.

Z,

are you going soft on us????...... shocked

where's the armchair pysch analysis...... grin

just messin with ya.....

Not2fun
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:46 PM
Excellant response, JL. Use it, Patriot. You owe her no apologies or explanation. SHE did this.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:47 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by Zelmo
The rantings of an idiot. Ignore her garbage.

Z,

are you going soft on us????...... shocked

where's the armchair pysch analysis...... grin

just messin with ya.....

Not2fun

Okay, she is an idiotic, most likely disordered woman. I say NPD or BPD, like everyone that cheats(just meesin back).
As for going "soft", there is Viagra.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 07:59 PM
Ya, the part that really pissed her off is that I talked with my sister. They do not like each other, so it sent her over the edge. Now if I had listened to my sister, we would be a month into the divorce. She was ranting about me trying to take her kids and I was so sneeky and decietful....I said two days ago you sat there and told me I was keeping you hostage and you hated me and wanted me out of your life. Now, your worried that I talked to my sister, or your parents or whatever about this. Funny thing is before all this happened I received an e-mail from her with a wedding picture attached this morning. I looked in our office after she left and they were up on the screen. Well, this seems to have come to a head. I can't imagine this continuing much longer. Just received a text that says me want you or love you more you are mistaken. Not sure what that means, but I'm sure she will explain when she gets home.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:07 PM
Hang in there, Pat. You are doing a great job. Try not to react and use JL's response. Your WW is half out of her mind right now. OM seems to hold no safety net for her and she is panicked that you may not either. IT IS SIMPLT RANTING!!!

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:11 PM
Here's another response, stolen from the old Superman series , the episode where "Bet a Million" Butler, has made a wager that he can rob a bank in Metropolis without interference from Superman: "No comment until the time limit is up."
Pretty cryptic and it may date you. But, you can use it if you like.

Just googled it. It's on Youtube. I would record it and play it to your WW whenever she attacks you.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:15 PM
She's just letting off steam. Don't try and argue with her. When she blows up again just walk off.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Just Learning
"I want you to listen to me for once in your life. You messed up big time, you broke the vows you made to me, you made to yourself, and you made to our families, not to mention God. All that has happened is a consequence of your choices and actions. If you don't like the consequences stop the behavior. I am standing her because I believe in forgiveness and our marriage. I will not stand here much longer being blamed for decisions I had no part in and no say in."
This is gold!

But understand, she may momentaraly blow up when you say it.

Originally Posted by not2fun
I have to disagree with this JL........she is not any different than any other selfish and entitled wayward.
x2
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:32 PM
Quote
"I want you to listen to me for once in your life. You messed up big time, you broke the vows you made to me, you made to yourself, and you made to our families, not to mention God. All that has happened is a consequence of your choices and actions. If you don't like the consequences stop the behavior. I am standing her because I believe in forgiveness and our marriage. I will not stand here much longer being blamed for decisions I had no part in and no say in."

JL -
I am cherry-picking this comment and adding it to my Notables thread. (for future reference, so I don't have to look high and low for it)

Thanks

Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 08:49 PM
Pat...

When dealing with a WW there is either conflict or appeasement.

Just remember...at this point in time..."CONFLICT" is good.

Dr. Harley address the 3 stages of relationships:

1. Intimacy
2. Conflict
3. Withdrawal

The only way to get to "intimacy" is through "conflict" and "conflict" is much better than withdrawal.

Keep her engaged. Through "conflict" you STILL have a relationship. Stay calm and charge nuetral.

"Charge Nuetral" means - you are continually pushing your agenda (stating your boundaries such as she must go "no contact" AND if she goes to see OM again...you are done [remember...she is the one trying to keep her options open so you are merely directing her on how she prevent permanently closing HER Patriot option]) but you do so very calmly. You can't force her to do any of this but only light the path which she can choose to take or not. Raising your voice or getting angry won't do a bit of good. When she gets loud you get quieter. When she screams...you whisper. But you keep charging and not avoiding "conflict".

She can't manipulate you anymore. YOU have the power...the power of understanding. The power of the knowledge that no matter how this turns out YOU will be OK. There isn't anything left to fear. YOU will make it and hopefully, for HER sake, she'll come along with you.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Quote
"I want you to listen to me for once in your life. You messed up big time, you broke the vows you made to me, you made to yourself, and you made to our families, not to mention God. All that has happened is a consequence of your choices and actions. If you don't like the consequences stop the behavior. I am standing her because I believe in forgiveness and our marriage. I will not stand here much longer being blamed for decisions I had no part in and no say in."

JL -



I am cherry-picking this comment and adding it to my Notables thread. (for future reference, so I don't have to look high and low for it)

Thanks


Okay by me if you want to preserve the Superman line, as well, Pep. Truly a classic and works in all types of situations.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Zelmo
Okay by me if you want to preserve the Superman line, as well, Pep. Truly a classic and works in all types of situations.
think

I'll think about it ... and get back to you .....
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 09:52 PM
Searching high and low? Like Fred and Barney "Oh we searched high and low, for Miss Waterbuffalo."
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/02/10 10:37 PM
Quote
Just received a text that says me want you or love you more you are mistaken. Not sure what that means, but I'm sure she will explain when she gets home.


hmmm - not even sure if context is good or bad - odd text. I would say she seems a bit rattled while texting.

Pat - qq

You did get yourself a digital voice recorder? I think I read that earlier - make sure it is ready.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 12:48 AM
Pep,

You are more than welcome to "cherry pick". I am glad you find it of use/interesting.

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 06:11 AM
Well it's over. She wents nuts tonight and I had to call the police. They removed her in cuffs and the kids were here. She went nuts when she found out about the letters saying I was the better parent. She started saying I was coming around and so on. Now I'm going behind her back and that was it. She started hitting and trowing and breaking stuff. But THANK YOU ALL I had a recorder on me. She told the cops I hit her and stuff, but they knew she was crazy. It was the worst thing I have ever wittnessed. She was on the ground begging them not to take her and such and the kids were losing it. Now she is calling and I have to go in the morning to bail her out. I told her to call the OM. She said we don't have that type of relationship. Then she tells me to drop the restraining charges. She has called non stop crying and asking me to take her back. No, now she's not sure, just come and get me out. This has gone to a new level of crazy. Everyone is telling me to take out a restraining order and get her out. I don't know what's right anymore.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 06:17 AM
DO NOT BAIL HER OUT.

GET A RESTRAINING ORDER.

Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 06:24 AM
Quote
But THANK YOU ALL I had a recorder on me.

Pat, this brought tears to my eyes, although not entirely for you. I am SO glad you listened to the advice you were getting about the recorder. So many people, receiving excellent advice, elect to ignore it until it's too late. You didn't, and as sorry as I am for you, and your children who witnessed their mother's nuclear meltdown, it could've been a lot worse if you had not had that "deflector shield" against her false accusations. Good on you.

tl
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 06:41 AM
WOW -

I know of Travis Cty jail - she will have a rough night with crack hos and screaming lunatics. Bailed a few friends out of there. At this time of night - lucky if she gets out by noon. Processing time is slow there.

That could have been you - you dodged a bullet tonight.

I figured reading the email could snap her - Make sure your computer is secure - she CANNOT find the website. your support line will be lost.


Crazy crap - I hope she has hit bottom now and will get some help. As she sits in the cell with jail smock - it will be in for a long and probably the most terrible night of her life.

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 08:08 AM
You are lucky it was her who went to the clink. Many times the Guy goes cuz the girl claims she was the victem. happened to me when I told my wife I was calling the landlord and going to move out with the kids because I wasn't going to support her affair. I had arm in a sling and she jumped me and started smackin me with the phone. Well I pushed her off me and I called the police. She talked to them first and did the innocent act and I went to jail.

In the long run its where she needed to go for the night. Don't feel like its your fault at all. Reality will set in and she will learn something or she will blame everyone else for it. Its up to her really. You were just protecting yourself and the integrity of the childrens lives.

Don't feel guilty about it. Empathy sure but no sympathy attachment. Let her own her issues so she can grow up.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 10:18 AM
Do not bail her out.

Do not tell WW to get the OM to bail her out. She knows he can't or won't bail her out. Telling her so is only educating a WW. They will go to their grave admitting to you that OM is not really there to meet her needs. This is why you never educate a WW.

Do get a restraining order. Before she tries to get one on you.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 11:30 AM
You are probably right Road. I think any way you look at it he should go to thecourthouse and get a restraining order first thing in the morning.

She will probably come out of the clink madder than a wet hen and find someone she can get to stand next to her in court and say he is abusive.

Listen, if you crack and insist on bailing her out because you think its gonna help your marriage please please get the restraining order first. Don't worry they serve breakfast there and they even have bathrooms.

I hope you listen about this but if we don't hear from you by tommorrow afternoon I will figure that she had you locked up.

Trust us, it wont kill her to spend half a day there. You can either refuse to bail her and go to the courthouse/police 1st thing in the morning or likeI said if you crack, tell her you are on your way and go to the courthouse /police 1st thing in the morning.

Go to the courthouse first thing in the morning bro. Your kids will thank you for it by the fact that you will be lessening the drama for them.
Also local courthouses allow you to get temporary custody of the children. All you have to do is file.


Prayin for ya
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 12:18 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well it's over. She wents nuts tonight and I had to call the police. They removed her in cuffs and the kids were here. She went nuts when she found out about the letters saying I was the better parent. She started saying I was coming around and so on. Now I'm going behind her back and that was it. She started hitting and trowing and breaking stuff. But THANK YOU ALL I had a recorder on me. She told the cops I hit her and stuff, but they knew she was crazy. It was the worst thing I have ever wittnessed. She was on the ground begging them not to take her and such and the kids were losing it. Now she is calling and I have to go in the morning to bail her out. I told her to call the OM. She said we don't have that type of relationship. Then she tells me to drop the restraining charges. She has called non stop crying and asking me to take her back. No, now she's not sure, just come and get me out. This has gone to a new level of crazy. Everyone is telling me to take out a restraining order and get her out. I don't know what's right anymore.

Coming from a veteran of the use of Digital Voice Recorders, very well played sir. The best advice I can give you is to take out the restraining order on her. If it comes down to divorce, it will help you greatly later as it will be a ding against her in the Domestic Violence category and a ding in the emotional stablility category. FIle for the TRO this morning before SHE can.

- take pictures of all the broken stuff
- if necessary, subpoena the arresting officer
- get a copy of the police report

Start thinking about what kind of custody arrangements you want - chances are you can get WHAT you want in temporary orders through the restraining order process. This is why MANY women file false charges - it makes it very easy to "win" the divorce as the burden of proof for restraining orders is 51% to get one passed.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 12:53 PM
{{{{{Pat and kiddo's}}}}},

WOW!! ... shocked

First off I want to tell you kudos on calling the police. Many a man won't do even when they should because of embarrassment. You ABSOLUTELY did the right thing......makes me wonder WHO the hotel security was really called on that night with her and OM though...... think

Second, the circumstances have changed. DRASTICALLY....... The ball is totally in your court now. My advice is to get that restraining order, pack up her stuff, and write that Plan B letter. The Plan B letter should be a loving letter on how you want to work this but that it is not an option until she meets the requirements and ends all contact with OM. ( oh and you should clear out all funds from the bank before she does.....I GUARENTEE her first stop upon getting released will be to the bank......money is the one thing waywards who are the bread winners is the first thing they use to manipulate the BS).....

Set up an intermiderary right away and go into Plan B. Let her hit rock bottom.....it is the most loving thing you can do for HER and your children right now....

And pay close attention to your children right now. You are the sane parent and they KNOW this. I would also go to each of their teachers and let them know what your IRS are going through. DO NOT sugar coat it. Tell them your wife is having an affair and it has caused Immeasurable strife at home.....

I am sorry for this turn of events but am CONVINCED that you are at a critical juncture here. What you do right now could make all the difference.....

Hang in there....you are doing BEAUTIFULLY AWESOME!!!!

Not2fun

Ps.....this episode isn't unusual either....seen it a bazillion times.....
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 02:31 PM
I have been following your thread since post 1...its heart touching and sad to read as a family is slowly being dismantled by the selfish acts of an unfaithful spouse.

I have said many prayers for you and your family 'Patriot'.

God bless.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 02:51 PM
This sounds like an excellent opportunity to move to plan B and let your WW stew in her own juices for a while.

1) Restraining order

2) Have an intermediary hand her a plan B letter (figure out how to legally do this with the restraining order in effect.

3) Go dark and wait for her to come crawling back.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 04:09 PM
I agree with everyone else.

Restraining order.

File to have here removed from the home.

File for temporary custody and financial support.

Do not bail her out.

Go to Plan-B, include psychiatric counseling as a requirement for her return in the Plan-B letter.

Do it today!!
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 04:24 PM
Prayers for you and your children, Patriot. I pray that your not posting does not mean that you bailed her out and dropped the RO. You have been gifted an opportunity here as horrible as the experience was to get temporary custody of your children and get your WW the help that she so desperately needs.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by saynomore
Prayers for you and your children, Patriot. I pray that your not posting does not mean that you bailed her out and dropped the RO. You have been gifted an opportunity here as horrible as the experience was to get temporary custody of your children and get your WW the help that she so desperately needs.

God's Blessings,

Say

I agree. This has worked out well for you. Her arrest is now on record. The restraining order will be, as well. These give you a big leg up re custody. The prospect of losijg her kids and the associated stigma may bring her to her senses, limited as they may have always been.
Posted By: ElCamino72 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 05:14 PM
Pat,

I am truly sorry you and your kids find yourself in this horrible situation. I feel for you man.

I heard Dr. Harley say that a WS with abusive behavior issues needs to resolve those first before even attempting R the M.

Seems like one of your plan B conditions should be for her to go through anger management counseling.

You've shown tremendous strength under this horrible circumstances. You have the respect of a lot of people who are following your situation.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 05:21 PM
Listen to the hard earned wisdom of PSUBIKER.
He's been there, done that, twice or thrice !!!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well it's over. She wents nuts tonight and I had to call the police. They removed her in cuffs and the kids were here. She went nuts when she found out about the letters saying I was the better parent. She started saying I was coming around and so on. Now I'm going behind her back and that was it. She started hitting and trowing and breaking stuff. But THANK YOU ALL I had a recorder on me. She told the cops I hit her and stuff, but they knew she was crazy. It was the worst thing I have ever wittnessed. She was on the ground begging them not to take her and such and the kids were losing it. Now she is calling and I have to go in the morning to bail her out. I told her to call the OM. She said we don't have that type of relationship. Then she tells me to drop the restraining charges. She has called non stop crying and asking me to take her back. No, now she's not sure, just come and get me out. This has gone to a new level of crazy. Everyone is telling me to take out a restraining order and get her out. I don't know what's right anymore.

If she doesn't get control over herself, she may wind up in a psych unit for evaluation.

Best possible thing that could happen to her at this time.


Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 05:57 PM
Whatever you choose to do...

you need to do it from a standpoint of compassion and concern for the well being of you, your children and even your wife.

1. You ARE still her husband

2. IF you ever do get into a custody dispute her attorney will scrutinize your behavior and attempt to portray it as though you were the angry vindictive instigator of this whole mess.

3. There are many wonderful people on these boards that were former fog out waywards. IF your wife ever pulls her head out of her netherregions she will remember how kind and compassionate you were during the lowest moment(s) of her life and appreciate all you done to protect her and her family.

I'm not saying be soft on her...FIRM, follow through with a restraining order and state your boundaries just be calm and compassionate while doing so.

[you also don't want the mother of your children to harm herself no matter what the outcome]

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 06:06 PM
Pat

Hope and pray all is well with kids and you as much as it can be under the circumstances. Especially the little ones that had to witness the breakdown and drama.

The county jail is no fun place for a middle class business woman with kids � trust me.

The booking process before getting the stripes and chains to the small cell can be very degrading for any woman. I had to bail out my wife�s friend in Travis County a couple of years ago and it left quite an impression with her. This girl works as a stripper to boot. It took nearly 18 hrs from 7pm to the next afternoon to get it all lined up.

This will either wake her up and get on the program or she is going to go to war. Watch yourself � this experience will no doubt change her mentally for the time being.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 08:03 PM
Hoping you are OK.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 08:06 PM
Pat,

I feel for you, but at the same time you need to think of your kids first. This is a woman who needs to get herself in order before being let around them.

Get the restraining order, and sole physical and legal custody until she gets her head back.

In the long term you want her mentally healthy and able to care for her kids herself, but you need to have primary custody.

Don�t take your chances to leave this to the courts. They will hoze you. PSUB is an example of female bias in the courts. His WW literally spent time in a mental ward and he caught her on tape threatening him. She has violated court orders, made false allegations against him, and has lied under oath yet she still got 50/50.

Right now you have a legal opening you should take full advantage of. You can later approach her from a position of strength.

If the situation was reversed people would tell her to get the restraining order and protective order and she would do it to use it against you in court.

Also, don't bank of affadavits. They don't matter in court and are heresay. Judges want to hear from people directly. Trust me on this. They only value first hand accounts and you must get these folks to show up and testify on your behalf under oath.

Trust me. I fought this battle.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/03/10 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Hoping you are OK.

me too!!!.... pray

not2fun
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 12:08 AM
Hang in there
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 12:56 AM
Thinking of you and saying many many prayers.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 01:29 PM
Pat

Hope all is well with you and family. Let us know if OK
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 02:22 PM
Pat?
Posted By: InLikeFlynn Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 04:47 PM
I guess its for (Pat)riot.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 04:57 PM
Yes I know. cool

I was asking if he was here and bumping the thread. stickout
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 05:08 PM
I jet hope he isn't listening to the fog and getting lost in it. I know for me when things got very intense in H's affair that happened to me..... And I stayed away from here while everyone here was worried about me!!..... Didn't help me one bit......

Pat,

What's going on???....talk to us!!!!

Not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 09:56 PM
She has an R.O, but it's an in home one.If she violates it in any way, she goes back and it's a felony. I didn't have the heart to send her out for 90 days. As you can imagine, it was incredibly tramatic and of course my doing. If I didn't tell people about all this and if I didn't ask for affidavids, this would not have happened. And if I didn't have a recorder, I'd be in jail. She has been angry, surley, nice and all kinds of stuff since coming home. Mostly sarcastic and stuff. This morning I talked with her calmly and said maybe it's time to stop all this crazy. I said I think it's time to file. I have two months then to find work and we can move ahead. No, she doesn't want to. Okay, what do we do then. I don't know, but lets just try and get along and see what happens for a while. The jackpot in this is when they left, I had her phone and computer. Well, she has not lied about OM. She has texted and he her, but it's very short and things like hope all's well. Bye. She told me that's what it was and she said she still want to talk with him. Right now, that's not the major problem, just getting through this mess is. Now the very STRANGEST thing of all was last night. She was being sarcastice and all and so I went to bed. She comes in and asks if she can sleep with me. I said just put some pillows between us (kidding) Very strange. Even tried something, but even in my present state, I had to laugh that one off (I know TMI). Not sure what that was about. Anyway, the kids seem okay from it. I know they are not, but kids are resiliant and can put stuff away easier than adults. I had to go to the neighbors and appologize because my kids play with theres and I didn't want that affected. So we move ahead. Not sure what sybil will do next. Really not sure why she dosen't want a divorce other than I'm her crutch. Well, I really think that within the next couple weeks it will be time to file. I am not real bothered by the prospect anymore and I really want some stability in my life. She has two months then to come on board, or move along.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She has an R.O, but it's an in home one.If she violates it in any way, she goes back and it's a felony. I didn't have the heart to send her out for 90 days. As you can imagine, it was incredibly tramatic and of course my doing. If I didn't tell people about all this and if I didn't ask for affidavids, this would not have happened. And if I didn't have a recorder, I'd be in jail. She has been angry, surley, nice and all kinds of stuff since coming home. Mostly sarcastic and stuff. This morning I talked with her calmly and said maybe it's time to stop all this crazy. I said I think it's time to file. I have two months then to find work and we can move ahead. No, she doesn't want to. Okay, what do we do then. I don't know, but lets just try and get along and see what happens for a while. The jackpot in this is when they left, I had her phone and computer. Well, she has not lied about OM. She has texted and he her, but it's very short and things like hope all's well. Bye. She told me that's what it was and she said she still want to talk with him. Right now, that's not the major problem, just getting through this mess is. Now the very STRANGEST thing of all was last night. She was being sarcastice and all and so I went to bed. She comes in and asks if she can sleep with me. I said just put some pillows between us (kidding) Very strange. Even tried something, but even in my present state, I had to laugh that one off (I know TMI). Not sure what that was about. Anyway, the kids seem okay from it. I know they are not, but kids are resiliant and can put stuff away easier than adults. I had to go to the neighbors and appologize because my kids play with theres and I didn't want that affected. So we move ahead. Not sure what sybil will do next. Really not sure why she dosen't want a divorce other than I'm her crutch. Well, I really think that within the next couple weeks it will be time to file. I am not real bothered by the prospect anymore and I really want some stability in my life. She has two months then to come on board, or move along.

My comment is:

Do not announce any deadlines, unless you are 100% certain you will follow-through.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 10:01 PM
Keep that recorder with you at all times. Do not have sex with her. In states where adultery matters, resuming sex vitiates the fault.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 10:02 PM
Hope you're still carrying the recorder so it's ready to go at any moment. I also hope she doesn't know you recorded the previous dispute. Glad you're OK, but you know you've got a tough row to hoe here in the days ahead. Hang in there.

tl
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 10:43 PM
Pat,

I would INVEST in recorders if I were you. Put them all over the house, in her car, your car, everywhere. As well hidden as you can. She probably knows you recorded her so will ambush you the next time. Perhaps coming out of the shower, or after you are working in the yard and probably not have your recorder on you, in the garage.

She is having huge issues now, and as you seem to understand that are all about her not you. She cannot face what she has done, and what she seems to WANT to do (that would be OM not you), nor does she want any serious consequences like losing her children or limited access to them.

Document, document, save tapes, write notes and save them all some place where she cannot access them. Get a new safety deposit box, but document all of this. Don't forget to get the names of the officers that came to your home.

She may hit bottom and then turn around, but really if her issues are deep, she may never do that and you/children need protection.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 11:00 PM
Glad you're okay.

You need to increase your operational security. How did she get into your email? Did she guess the password or did you leave it open? You really need to have hard copies of all your documentation and affidavits stored securely offsite - a safe deposit box that only you have access to, or your lawyer's office. Now that she knows about the affidavits she may go looking for them and try to destroy them.
Posted By: krusht Re: Wife having an affair - 02/04/10 11:04 PM
Pat,

""I am not real bothered by the prospect anymore and I really want some stability in my life.""

Stability..AMEN brother. But just think, you are the most stabilest (?) thing in her life right now.

Maybe jail was the rock bottom. Maybe she did some hard thinking in there.

And of course there is... ""If I didn't tell people about all this and if I didn't ask for affidavids, this would not have happened."" sigh sigh sigh

I am pretty sure that coming back with the following would not be a love buster... ""If you did not commit adultry this would not have happened"" (ya wacko grumble under your breath, out of earshot.)

Stay strong,

kirk
Posted By: Rose55 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 01:51 AM
Hi Patriot, I�m not a psychiatrist, but here is my 2 cents worth as a FWW in a recovered marriage:

�Well, she has not lied about OM. She has texted and he her, but it's very short and things like hope all's well. Bye. She told me that's what it was and she said she still want to talk with him.�

Texting is contact and keeps the affair alive.

�Right now, that's not the major problem,�

Yes, it is, or at least one of the major problems. Communicating with him in any way keeps her emotionally involved, addicted to the way the A makes her feel, and consequently also makes her emotionally unstable, insecure, and confused.

�Even tried something�

She might be trying to reconnect (as well as cake eat). If you want to recover your marriage, sex can be very healing, BUT she needs to be tested for STDs first.

�it was incredibly tramatic and of course my doing. If I didn't tell people about all this and if I didn't ask for affidavids, this would not have happened.�

This is not your fault. Having an A is what has gotten her into this emotional mess.

�kids are resiliant and can put stuff away easier than adults.�

I�m a mother, grandmother, and teacher, and I disagree with that statement.

Have you thought about calling the Harleys for phone counseling, or at least encouraging your W to get help somewhere (counseling with a therapist or trusted religious leader)?

I�m praying for you,
Rose
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:47 AM
Well, I told a couple more of her friends and she blew up. I had to leave for the night so the kids would not be involved. I have to wonder when exposure is over exposure. I think it has reached that point. Everytime things seem better, the exposure seems to backfire. I told two of her friends, but one of them is a peer. Now she is concerned for her job because her friend wont call her back. I am not sure telling her was such a good idea. Of course she would not have nown, but her sister told her I did..Errrrrrrrr. That sent it to a whole new level. He father told her today that he supported me and the kids and if that meant losing a daughter, so be it. She told me tonight that it funny, I have alinated everyone in her life, so now all she has is the OM. Everyday is new drama.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:54 AM
You left your home?

BAD IDEA.
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 06:11 AM
GO HOME!

SHE had an affair. You have done nothing wrong. Sleep in your own bed tonight.

GO HOME!

SHE has an RO against her. If she goes nuts again you can have her taken away. You are in the drivers seat.

GO HOME!

Your kids need a responsible, rational adult...and she isn't.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, I told a couple more of her friends and she blew up.

Yes, as you remove the places and people she can go where she can spin a story and rewrite history about her affair she will get very angry. It hurts but so doesn't it hurt after a rotten tooth is pulled.

I had to leave for the night so the kids would not be involved.

I hope she can't run with them to some other place, she is not in a healthy place Pat. I know she probably loves them but it will effect them if they see you leave and then leave also

I have to wonder when exposure is over exposure. I think it has reached that point. Everytime things seem better, the exposure seems to backfire.

Accually its good news that this bothers her so much, Ask yourself this.. Did you marry her because you wanted everyone else to think you were right about every desicion you made and wanted them to trust and respect you, or did you want your wife to trust and respect you? Right now.. She thinks you guys are over IN HER MIND, not nessesarily in her emotions yet, she doesn't know what to feel, so she will try to run away and if she leaves and nobody knows what really is going on, she will spin a story out of embarrassment and need for acceptance. The sooner her peers know the truth the better for her also. Because if they see that you are fighting for your marriage and are a rational, honest, sensitive, loving Husband who is out to do whatever it takes to restore love and respect to both of you they will see thru whatever your WW is spinning.
People who love each other are not afraid to fight to protect them and anyone worth their salt knows this. They also know that people make mistakes and are afraid to admit them. But the truth will set you free. If exposure and embarrassment is more painful than losing you then she has some very seriuos issues to solve in her life. If she leaves for that reason ask this... Would you be doing her any favors by giving her a place to hide and stay sick? Even if she never came back you would be loving her more by exposure.



I told two of her friends, but one of them is a peer. Now she is concerned for her job because her friend wont call her back.

Any friend with two brain cells to rub together would give your WW time to process what she wanted to say before she talked to them. As well, The peer should also be allowed that time don't you think? Your WW is looking for imediate gratification and absolvance for her mistakes and again she wants to spin the story to all her friends. The peers are the best to expose to because they are the most important support for them. If you didn't expose to them they have even less of a chance to get thier head screwwed on straight. So you again are doing her a favor.

As far as the job goes, as long as she is doing her job,(assuming her job isn't as a counselor), I think that it would be a poor job where outside issues would cause her to lose it. Many employers offer help for ppl in this sitch and can have charges brought against them through the labor board if they fire someone because of something like that. As long asyour wife does her job, she should be able to keep it, or its not a real job.


I am not sure telling her was such a good idea. Of course she would not have nown, but her sister told her I did..Errrrrrrrr.

Sister tells on you? Hmmm doesn't sound good.

That sent it to a whole new level. He father told her today that he supported me and the kids and if that meant losing a daughter, so be it.

If he is being honest and you can trust him than he might be your best ally in healing your marriage but let me ask you something if I may. What does WW Mother say? Also, what kind of relationship does WW Mom and Dad have? Does MIL treat FIL like a mushroom? Feeding him Sh_t and keeping him in the dark? I have seen many Husbands with strict standards be gaslighted by their wife as they let the kids get away with all kinds of BS. It teaches the children dishonesty and that it doesn't matter what you do wrong only matters if you get caught. Many childish brats come out of that and they love to pit Mom against Dad, brother against sister, husband against wife.. you get my drift.. its manipulating and its allways in the guise of "They just don't understand!!".. "OH yes.. you are so kind Mommy,(or daddy) you love me so much!!"
I am not suggesting you try and fix the Father In Laws marriage just be aware of the learned behavior if its there


She told me tonight that it funny, I have alinated everyone in her life, so now all she has is the OM. Everyday is new drama.


Well this is like telling a drug addict that they can't get any more money for crack from thier freinds because you told them all about the dangerous habit they have, ...and then for the addict to say now the only place thay can get support for the habit is the street so they will be moving there. Any addict that ends up there soon learns what their addict freinds liked about them fast was the money. Substitute the word "money" for "social acceptance" and the word "crack" for "dopamine high from emotional escapism" and you can see why we all call people with active affairs addicts.



Without trying to give a chemistry lesson you must know that the feeling of being in love is part of a chemical process in our brains. The honeymoon period in any relationship will wear off but that does not mean that romantic love dies. The honeymoon period is when everything is just perfect and you can't see how anything could ever go wrong that would make the euphoria go away. ppl will go to great lengths to protect this relationship at the honeymoon stage because of feelings alone, even if its just hormones and sex. They just want to feel good. Its chemical and its temporary at first.

AS you might have read or heard this site is dedicated to bringing back much of the romance that gets lost in marriges. Many ppl have recovered to find that they love each other more than ever before. But it takes two humble and willing ppl who want to work at it and are able to change.

Marriage and recovery isn't for wimps.


Go back home and be there for yourself and the children and just in case your wife gets a clue that you love her she won't have a wild thought of you cheating on her.

Follow all the advice aboveabout protecting yourself because I think your wife has a lot of work to do on herself before she can be trusted. Especially if she gets violent, that signals right there that she has emotional issues that might, might mind you, have a long history.

None of us are perfect but what do you want to tell the children someday. That Mommy just had to many problems and I decided it wasn't worth the effort to try and help her get better?
Thats just like telling the kids never get sick or go to war and come back with issues or I might have to give up on you too.

Wheres the love in that.


God bless ya Pat I know you love your wife and kids and I for one am rooting for you. You sitch strikes a few chords with me
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 01:13 PM
Her mom and dad have a relationship of mutual need. Not a lot of affection, but they have been together so long they wouldn't suvive without each other. No, dad is the boss in that house. All decissions are his and his alone. She is really concerned that he wont talk with her ever again. Right now like I said the really big concern is her friend at work. Her friend is a very by the book Christian women. We had to lie to her job about her being in jail and I hope she will not repeat that. If she does it could be the end of her career. Then it's a whole new game. As for her sister. That [censored] was playing me bad. She did tell my wife all the positive things I said, but she also told her some of the things I said in confidence. She played us both and I will never forgive that. If she keeps her job right now that is the most important part. No job, no house and a move would have to happen. Don't need all that right now.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 01:41 PM
How long have you known your WW? Has she been violent before?

My H and I got in a huge fight (It was HIM in the EA, not I) and we both said/did wrong things. He called the police, he says he thought they would make me "just leave" for the night if HE called. WS are so entitled.

Yeah, I wear that scarlett letter. It is more like a scabby brand.

When the po got there, I refused to say one word- for or against. I don't know what he said. Well,- I got arrested, they were very angry with me for not talkin'. We live in a "zero tolerance" community apparently. In 23 YEARS of friendship and marriage- no issues with "abuse". But I lose it. goodby. pht.

Luckily for me, everyone who matters who knows me/us looked with disdain on HIM. But it still left me humiliation, anxiety attacks, PTSD and I still (4 years later) have not compleatly forgiven him. I have the scars, baby. It took 3 years to sleep through the night. Still don't without Tyenol PM. Writing this I still tear up.

Sorry for the TJ, but I hope my expereince will give in sight on how she may be feeling, or may feel in a few years.

I hope your W "bounces back" better than I. It sounds like she really deserved what she got, but you really, really need to seperate your children from this. WHY on gods green earth did you allow them to see their mother get handcuffed? Really? Did not the police seperate them? Very stupid on their part.

I mean my situation was different, but my kids have huge issues with their DAD over this, and they were not even home the night it happened.
I hope you are OK
I hope your kids are OK
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by MrWondering
Whatever you choose to do...

you need to do it from a standpoint of compassion and concern for the well being of you, your children and even your wife.

1. You ARE still her husband

2. IF you ever do get into a custody dispute her attorney will scrutinize your behavior and attempt to portray it as though you were the angry vindictive instigator of this whole mess.

3. There are many wonderful people on these boards that were former fog out waywards. IF your wife ever pulls her head out of her netherregions she will remember how kind and compassionate you were during the lowest moment(s) of her life and appreciate all you done to protect her and her family.

I'm not saying be soft on her...FIRM, follow through with a restraining order and state your boundaries just be calm and compassionate while doing so.

[you also don't want the mother of your children to harm herself no matter what the outcome]

Mr. Wondering


What he said. Mr W always has great advice.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 01:55 PM
"If she keeps her job right now that is the most important part. No job, no house and a move would have to happen"

So what your saying is that it's better for WW to keep the job that allows her to bang the OM.

Also never leave the house. She had the affair.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Her mom and dad have a relationship of mutual need. Not a lot of affection, but they have been together so long they wouldn't suvive without each other. No, dad is the boss in that house. All decissions are his and his alone. She is really concerned that he wont talk with her ever again. Right now like I said the really big concern is her friend at work. Her friend is a very by the book Christian women. We had to lie to her job about her being in jail and I hope she will not repeat that. If she does it could be the end of her career. Then it's a whole new game. As for her sister. That [censored] was playing me bad. She did tell my wife all the positive things I said, but she also told her some of the things I said in confidence. She played us both and I will never forgive that. If she keeps her job right now that is the most important part. No job, no house and a move would have to happen. Don't need all that right now.

Consider the following:
1. Go home.
2. Do not leave your children alone with her.
3. Do not expect her blood relations to be 100% on your side. Assume that anything you tell them is going to get back to WW.
4. Keeping her job isn't the most important part. Keeping your M intact is the most important part.
5. No more lying to people. Nothing good comes from it.
6. GO HOME.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 03:45 PM
Patriot,

Don't get discouraged. You could have done yourself a favor by exposing all at once, thereby limiting the lovebusters to a single, one-time event. That's why we recommend to expose all at once. The fury over exposure will die down after a few weeks. I think you have exposed enough right now. Let exposure take it's course. Now just work on doing a good plan A. Meet her needs, avoid LBs. As long as there is no contact w/ OM, I'm telling you that your chances of marital recovery are very high. Forget that your WW hates your guts right now. Your goal was to kill the affair first and foremost. If you've done that, then you have succeeded. The recovery will come later. I know you are going through absolute hell right now, but happiness is on the other side of this pain. Keep your head up, keep fighting, and DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME FOR ANY REASON. If you must, lock yourself in a room to get away from your WW or call the cops again.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:13 PM
Well, I went home after talking to her and insisting no crazy. So as soon as I walk in the door, crazy hits. She insists I call her parents right then and make it right. I call her parents and start talking to them and she is yealling in the background. Her Mom started crying and saying I know Joe, I wish we could help. Whatever you need to do we will support you 100%. Ten she demanded I snd e-mails to everyone saying what a crazy person I was so on. She had a conference call so I showered and left. Can't deal with crazy right now. I'll go home when the kids get out of school. Now she e-mails me every minute asking me to come home and speak calmly. Said no thanks. Tried that and it didn't work. Her friend from work finally called and it's all good there (thank god). So now I don't feel so bad about that. As you all have said, her support system has erroded and she thinks I'm trying to trap her. I have kept the message the same the whole time, I want to work on this. There is nothing that can't be fixed. Yes, lots of damage and no promise it can be undone, but I at least want to try. As you can imagine I get a big FU, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. While I'm writting now just got an IM saying if I am planning on filling please don't. How flippin crazy are people. I know it's difficult to gauge how you would react to a situation until you're in it, but this is kookoo for coco puffs. Now I'm getting an i.m I'm concerned for you and your mental state. OMG...really.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:25 PM
It's all good, patriot! Your wife's fantasy is being shredded. She's in the tail-spin of all tail-spins. Even her support system has been eroded, and she knows it.

I admire you keeping your cool in all this. I know it would be hard for me to maintain any semblance of composure with the bovine effluvium whirling about. But keep it up. You are witnessing the death throes of her A.

I am in awe at how effective your exposure has been.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, I went home after talking to her and insisting no crazy. So as soon as I walk in the door, crazy hits. She insists I call her parents right then and make it right. I call her parents and start talking to them and she is yealling in the background. Her Mom started crying and saying I know Joe, I wish we could help. Whatever you need to do we will support you 100%. Ten she demanded I snd e-mails to everyone saying what a crazy person I was so on. She had a conference call so I showered and left. Can't deal with crazy right now. I'll go home when the kids get out of school. Now she e-mails me every minute asking me to come home and speak calmly. Said no thanks. Tried that and it didn't work. Her friend from work finally called and it's all good there (thank god). So now I don't feel so bad about that. As you all have said, her support system has erroded and she thinks I'm trying to trap her. I have kept the message the same the whole time, I want to work on this. There is nothing that can't be fixed. Yes, lots of damage and no promise it can be undone, but I at least want to try. As you can imagine I get a big FU, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. While I'm writting now just got an IM saying if I am planning on filling please don't. How flippin crazy are people. I know it's difficult to gauge how you would react to a situation until you're in it, but this is kookoo for coco puffs. Now I'm getting an i.m I'm concerned for you and your mental state. OMG...really.

Did you ever see the Exorcist? Your WW sounds like the kid in the movie who was possessed. Incoherent, wheedling, threatening, quiet and then exploding (projectile vomiting all over the priest who was doing the exorcism). That was while the demon was being exorcised.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:36 PM
GO HOME. AND DO NOT LEAVE AGAIN unless it's for work.

Do you WANT her to take the kids from you?! Do you WANT PSUBIKER's situation to happen to you?!
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She insists I call her parents right then and make it right.
I would have told her to do it.

Originally Posted by patriot45
Ten she demanded I snd e-mails to everyone saying what a crazy person I was so on.
Tell her only if you can include an MP3 of her run in with the law from your voice recorder.


Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm concerned for you and your mental state. OMG...really.
Reply with

I feel the same concern for you. If I arrange it would you be willing to talk to a psychiatrist?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:41 PM
Just sitting here in Starbucks buying time. My sister keeps e-mailing me and telling me to get a new protective order and have her removed. I am SO reluctant to do that because the kids would have to see her removed by the police again. I cannot deal with that again. Having three police cars in front of our house again in our perfect little leave it to beaver neighborhood would be to much. On the other hand, dealing with the Sibil crap is old too. If she would just allow me to go into my part of the house and she in hers and take a week off from this, it might have a chance to calm down. Ya, I cannot imagine what she went through in jail. I'm sure it was tramatic and all, but she did it to herself. I just listened to the recording again and she was way out of control. I'll break this bottle over your head and F-in kill you...so on. I know I shouldn't feel bad about it, but it makes me sick. I know what Barbie means that it is a lifetime scar, but what else should I have done. I guess I could have left, but it's my house too.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
GO HOME. AND DO NOT LEAVE AGAIN unless it's for work.
x2

Just keep your voice recorder on you, be cool, and don't let her bother you.

Ohh, and why not invite her parent's over for lunch or dinner grin
Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
While I'm writting now just got an IM saying if I am planning on filling please don't. How flippin crazy are people. I know it's difficult to gauge how you would react to a situation until you're in it, but this is kookoo for coco puffs. Now I'm getting an i.m I'm concerned for you and your mental state. OMG...really.

This is a train wreck and you are enabling it!! Sorry to be harsh but this is just utterly ridiculous! Can't you see that she is trying to manipulate you?? She threatens to file to get you to do what she wants and when you don't she follows that up by expressing concern for you? She's acting like a child that has been told no. First the child begs and pleads and says pretty please and then when you still say not the child throws a temper tantrum, cries, rolls on the floor, etc. She is trying to push any and all buttons that she can. When are you going to stand up like a man and quit putting up with her crap? You walk through the door and she insists that you call her parents so you do? Why? Why are you doing everything she wants? She also insisted that you email everybody? I sure hope you didn't do that.... Geez....

Sorry to pull out the 2x4 because I know you are hurting and this is an extremely difficult time but you have got to stop enabling WW and giving into her manipulation tactics.

Mindshare
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I cannot imagine what she went through in jail.
Not your fault or your problem.

Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm sure it was tramatic and all, but she did it to herself.
Absolutly, it is just another fun consecuince for HER of HER affair.

Originally Posted by patriot45
I know what Barbie means that it is a lifetime scar, but what else should I have done.
You did 100% right!


Originally Posted by patriot45
I guess I could have left, but it's my house too.
NO

NO

NO

DO NOT EVER LEAVE!!
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:50 PM
Your kids are probably scared right now. With good reason! Daddy has left them alone with someone not in her right mind.

How do you like the idea of your kids being scared because daddy will not protect them?
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:52 PM
Have her removed RIGHT NOW!

Look out for your kids!

I wish Pom were here...

Better, I'll get Pariah. HE will tell you.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:54 PM
Patriot,

You MUST stop the abuse that your WW is dishing out. My exWW to this day still says I have mental health issues. It's called deflection and is EXTREMELY abusive to YOU!

There's some things you need to do ASAP:

- DON'T MOVE OUT!! She cheated, she has the TRO, why the heck are you leaving?

- strongly consider getting another TRO. Your WW sounds just like my ex - they JUST DON'T GET IT! They will not stop until you are behind bars. They also don't care if they are yelling, screaming, carrying on in front of the kids as long as it serves their goal of getting you locked up.

- Remember, blood is thicker than mud.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:57 PM
Pat,
Unfortunately what you are witnessing right now from exposure is exactly what needed to happen. The safety net is gone and now she is crashing and burning. I know it is extremely painfull for you to have to witness this, but if she were a crack addict and you took away her drug, she would be just as hateful and venomous.

Your WW's foggy excuse to have an A is like ice cubes and exposure is the heating lamp over the ice. Her fantasy excuses are melting like ice and she is desperate. She watching the beatiful snowman in the back yard, melt away in the noonday sun and she is like a young child. She is mad, sad, and desperate to turn this around and have her snowman(cake).

Good job on the exposure. You have used your biggest weapon to end the A. Reasoning with her during this withdrawal will drive you crazy. Don't entertain the thought that she will be open to reason and logic. She hasn't used that in a very long time and will have to learn that behavior all over again (or not).

At least now, there is a chance to salvage this M, whereas before, there was none. I know you can't see that yet and it will take extreme patience on your part, but bide your time and continue to plan A. This is where the BS has to carry the load for both but, I know you are up to this for now.

In spite of the chaos, things are actually going to plan. YOU'RE PLAN, which puts you back in charge of your life and well being. Your WW does not like reliqueshing control back to you so she fights it, but she sees it and is frightened by it.

Please be encouraged, you are doing great!

All Blessings
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 04:58 PM
This is all just thrashing and pitching a fit, it will subside.

But you must protect yourself.

Go home, keep recorder on you at all times.

If she gets kooky, call the police.
Posted By: thndrnltng Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:02 PM
Quote
I just listened to the recording again and she was way out of control. I'll break this bottle over your head and F-in kill you...so on.

Isn't this sort of a violation of the temporary restraining order? At the very least, it shows the willingness and the desire to violate the terms if she had the chance. You listened when people told you to get a recorder, and they were right. They're right now about telling you to get another restraining order, even if it means police cars in the neighborhood. I hope you'll listen this time around, too. This woman is a grenade. The pin is pulled. The seconds are ticking, and when it goes off, everyone in the area is gonna get HURT!

tl
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:03 PM
You need to maintain peace in that household for YOUR CHILDREN.
It is WORSE for them to hear her ranting and threatening to kill you than it is for them to see mommy being asked to leave.

Right now you have tremendous power over the situation. So take advantage of that. Get the next level of restraining order.
She IS abusive. You need to protect your kids from that.

There is really no point trying to negotiate with her at this point. She is not willing to give up OM. She is not in a position to make any demands of you. You, on the other hand, DO have the right and position to demand that she stay away from you until she has me the conditions necessary to give this marriage a chance.

Stop the abuse. Stop giving in to her demands. Stop protecting her from her consequences. Stop trying to soften the blows.




Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:05 PM
I only called her parents because they know what's happening and knew it was crap. So is the suggestion I go down and file? Get an RO? I just hate the thought of that. I gave her a break coming out and did not do it, but maybe I should have.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I only called her parents because they know what's happening and knew it was crap. So is the suggestion I go down and file? Get an RO? I just hate the thought of that. I gave her a break coming out and did not do it, but maybe I should have.

Go home, stay home. Tell her that you will no longer tolerate her abuse, so she needs to stop yelling and screaming at you. If it continues, have her removed. Of course you are recording her the entire time. She will not change until she hits rock bottom. You leaving her with the kids as you run off only strengthen's her custody position. You do not want to do anything that hurts your custody position. You cannot leave your children with this woman. Give her some rope, but if she takes her rope and hangs herself with it, do not cut her down.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/05/10 05:44 PM
OK, I am the prime example of when a WW goes to the extreme to cover her adultery up.

You better listen up to me, or it VERY WELL COULD COST YOU YOUR LIFE.

First and foremost you better get a digital voice activated recorder in your posession and a video camera as an added bonus would be beyond helpful.

Record each and every insane blathering that comes from her piehole and for god's sakes keep it freaking hidden.

You will definately want that recorder or an spare hidden in the house whil you aren't there and in her car so you can catch her plotting to have you killed.

I discovered my wife's plot almost too late.

You need evidence to get an RO on your wife to have her REMOVED from the home.

She is a prime example of a nuclear reaction to exposure.

You have severely damaged the fantasy of the affair and the monster is reacting.


Keep exposing, it's like light to a vampire.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 12:04 AM
Pat,

I'll keep this simple. YOu are leaving your kids with a woman that is out of control. What kind of a man are you?

JL
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 12:48 AM
Originally Posted by Just Learning
Pat,

I'll keep this simple. YOu are leaving your kids with a woman that is out of control. What kind of a man are you?

JL

EGG ZAK LEE !
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Go home, stay home. Tell her that you will no longer tolerate her abuse, so she needs to stop yelling and screaming at you. If it continues, have her removed. Of course you are recording her the entire time. She will not change until she hits rock bottom. You leaving her with the kids as you run off only strengthen's her custody position. You do not want to do anything that hurts your custody position. You cannot leave your children with this woman. Give her some rope, but if she takes her rope and hangs herself with it, do not cut her down.

Doesnt sound like her night in jail taught her respect for you if she is telling you to say this and do that. You are probably still in danger and she sounds capable of doing something desparate.

I would be firm and kind but let her know if she starts any abusive launguage you will have her tossed out, and if she gets in your face because of that call the cops. You will be doing everyone a favor.

Ever here the saying.. "The only thing your children ont forgive you for is your lack of disiplining them" If you continue to let her walk on you now your doomed.

I agree with most of the people here that if she keeps throwing fits have her removed.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 12:12 PM
Is your WW violent? Has she been in the past? I mean-- she found your letters attempting to take her children away from her, or that is what she thought. Did she melt down due to that, only that, or is this a common reaction from her?

Is her violent behavior the "norm"? Do you have a real reason to think she may lash out at the kids? If so, I reccomend that you follow the advice the police gave you on that little card and get yourself into a domestic violence program.

Talk to an atty. A domestic charge is not a "magic bullet" that is going to get you full custody, many people make that mistake. Talk to your counselor about this, maybe in your county it is different. Then file. Have her removed. Do what you have to, there needs to be peace in your home for your kids.

Do not expect her not to be able to have the kids for visits, it just does not work out that way.

If not, and you really want to attempt RECOVERY, I would stop posting that she is "crazy", "koo koo for cocca pops" and all your other names.

Someone once said on a thread, "there are a lot of posters here who want to punish the BS.. does not matter if it is their BS spouse or not". I think that poster is a genious.

There is no "teaching" a spouse to do anything. No one, I repeat no one should feel like they are going to lose thier children. ((Unless cases of abuse or neglect, of course)). She is not going to leave that house willingly, not with your acusations and letters looming over her head.

Dragging kids into the middle of this violence is abusive. You did not answer my earlier question.. did they see their mother get removed?

Do what you want, but this has gone way over exposure.







Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 12:28 PM
Let me clarify before I get goose egg size lumps from the 2x4's.

The A and the domestic violence are two different issues. Yes, they are connected, but I see one as an emotional travisty and the other as broken bones type harm around/near/viewed by children.

Yes, A's are abusive too. But this has sunk to a new level.
When you hand control of your life over to other people, which now is what has happened, for good or evil, there are consequences.

I really, really hope this works out for PATS family.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 02:30 PM
My son saw, my daughter was at a friends. Of course she is pissed about the letters asking who should be primary, not sole. She's saying she can adjust her schedule to where she travels 10 days and local 10 days and that will work for joint custody. So again, it works on her schedule. I said I'm done talking about it. If we divorce, let the courts decide. Now she is being openly synical and everytime I say something an octive to high to the kids, she pulls out her phone and writes it down. I should have listened and had the 30 day put on. Now she is on some kind of crazy mission. Trying to show me laws about what I have done wrong and how because her computer was company property, I had no right to look at it. Her phone is paid for by her company, so I had no right. Crazy talk. Fact is she had all kinds of crap on there, e-mails, pictures etc. that would get her fired, so blah-blah and she has no idea that there is a picture vault that stores them. I don't know what she wants. I know she is scared about me filling for a divorce, but I don't know why. I think it's because she doesn't want to be alone, but she knows we cannot continue like this. She has no intention of doing or changing anything in her behaviour, so I have no idea what she is doing. She can check and hack all she wants on me, there aint much there. Maybe that's it, she's building her case. She needs to be gone for a while, that's all I know.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 02:32 PM
Barbie: What did you meen by had control of your life over?
Posted By: Unfettered Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 02:54 PM
Patriot,
Please upgrade your restraining order at the very earliest opportunity. What is the minimum she has to do before you have the legal right to do that?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 03:30 PM
Has she been violent in the past: She has had outbursts, but nothing like this. Never at the kids. Yes, her outburst was due to the fact I asked a neighbor if they would sign an afidavid. I understand the anger, but not to the degree she had. My standard answer now is it does not matter what either of us want, the courts will decide...done. The names are obviously frustration coming through. I don't know if you can understand the level of helplessness I feel until I go back to work full time. Once that happens, I will feel more compfortable. Of course she is angry right now about the arrest, her friends and family being contacted. Her friends think I'm a loon and her parents, who know better than anyone have stopped taking her calls and told her they will only speak with me. She has her sister, who she spoke with about three times a year before this, now there BFF's. And of course she has the OM who she has not seen, but texts quite often. I saw the texts and they are only talk, no more of the other stuff, but it's still BS. Order of business is job, removal and then go from there. I don't think she wants a divorce in any way shape or form. But for me, I am there. Once the job comes, I have decided unless there are some immediate and tangible changes and they are enforced, she and I are done.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 04:45 PM
Read around Pat, I really don't think she has the stability to recover untill she gets some counseling and. YOU sound like your losing respect for her fast.
If he wants to say she is acting crazy I don't see why thats a problem because this is his thread and a place for him to vent.

If she is panicing and grasping for control it is a sign that she is afraid. Its not fun being afraid, sometimes we do the wrong things and make life worse when we are afraid. I am sorry she is having this problem. She needs to realize she has o9ne first and unless stable people insist that she not be verbally abusive and/or violent, she will probably just keep acting nuts twards you Pat.

I want to see you guys recover, really recover not just put out this wildfire so another can pop up later.
If you continue to take this abuse I am afraid you will not have the strength emotionally to invest and she will be so afraid she will run away even harder.

The authorities needed to be brought into this sitch because someone was getting violent. Don't feel bad about that, Be diligent now that they are involved now that your wife is treated fairly and that the authorities arn't used to get even with you.

That might have been what Barb was talking about not sure but I know that when you bring in the law sometimes you have to watch out that the law doesn't "assume" that you are hiding more than what you tel them, especailly when it comes to domestic violence and abuse where many women cover up their husbands abuse, emotinal and physical. The judges try to bring those things out in court because they are aware of them.

Keep that recorder running and your emotions cool and calm Pat.

There is hope Pat but it will take time and patience
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Is your WW violent? Has she been in the past? I mean-- she found your letters attempting to take her children away from her, or that is what she thought. Did she melt down due to that, only that, or is this a common reaction from her?

Is her violent behavior the "norm"? Do you have a real reason to think she may lash out at the kids? If so, I reccomend that you follow the advice the police gave you on that little card and get yourself into a domestic violence program.

Talk to an atty. A domestic charge is not a "magic bullet" that is going to get you full custody, many people make that mistake. Talk to your counselor about this, maybe in your county it is different. Then file. Have her removed. Do what you have to, there needs to be peace in your home for your kids.

Do not expect her not to be able to have the kids for visits, it just does not work out that way.

If not, and you really want to attempt RECOVERY, I would stop posting that she is "crazy", "koo koo for cocca pops" and all your other names.

Someone once said on a thread, "there are a lot of posters here who want to punish the BS.. does not matter if it is their BS spouse or not". I think that poster is a genious.

There is no "teaching" a spouse to do anything. No one, I repeat no one should feel like they are going to lose thier children. ((Unless cases of abuse or neglect, of course)). She is not going to leave that house willingly, not with your acusations and letters looming over her head.

Dragging kids into the middle of this violence is abusive. You did not answer my earlier question.. did they see their mother get removed?

Do what you want, but this has gone way over exposure.


Not sure the agenda on this line of questioning.

Does it matter if there is a violent past? She was out of control that night and needed to be removed. I am sure he is second guessing himself enough as it is.

Don't recall on this thread that Pat mentioned that he didn't want his wife involved with the kid's lives.

As a father - his best outcome will be 50% - just the way the courts operate. He is at a disadvantage due to gender. Even during the arrest - she played the game of abuse. Personally I think he is in greater danger now of false accusations of abuse.

Pat -

What plans do you have on where you locate? Seems to me from other people I know that in Texas - The parent with custody or joint custody they are required to live in same county or neighboring counties. Friend of mine could not take a job in Houston bc of this scenario without having to go to court for permision. Not sure what it takes to move out of state.

On another deal - even tho Texas is no fault - one can file for adultery - depending on the judge - the betrayed can get a more favourable outcome in financial and custody matters. A local atty will know how or if thats feasible in your area.

The best scenario is that the M recovers - she pulls her head out her **, complete remorse, etc. If she is so worried about Plan D, she sure is not showing by her actions - just be careful - one misstep without a recorder and you could be in the county jail and dont count on her being so generous.

Just to note - she is lucky to have her job still. I know if this ever happened to me - the Code of Business Conduct at my employer is auto termination for arrests of this nature and would literally need to find a new career.

Apparently there was no charge of DV. Again not an atty - but I have heard once charged in Texas - the state takes over and the other spouse is not able to rescind. The AG office takes the case and prosecutes. One thing I would not want to experience is to have to face a Texas court as a abusive spouse.

Just random thoughts - hope all is well and you all have a peaceful weekend.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 05:39 PM
I have seen it posted on here for years that the best a father can hope for is shared custody. While I do believe that in most cases it is best for children to spend equal time with their parents if the family cannot remain intact, I know personally of numerous situations where the father has been given full custody including my DH.

He got full physical and legal custody and the judge sited the fact that DH was primary care giver and his ex had demonstrated an unstable lifestyle. My son also got primary custody of his small DDs. It took us several trys to find an attorney that did not say that shared custody was the best that we could expect. You cannot get more than your attorney believes that he can get for you.

It appears that Patriot has a similiar situation and that if he remains level headed and wary he may be able to get custody. As long as he feels that he is truly doing it in the best interest of his children and not for vengence sake. The former appears to be the case.

You are absolutely correct Rwinger. He needs support here.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 05:49 PM
Patriot,

You are losing love for your WW quickly. The only way to get your WW to change is to get NC between your WW and OM. I would suggest going the OM route. He clearly didn't like your exposure and since he isn't getting any sex anymore, he might just stop texting your WW if you can bring yourself to put the heat on him. I know you are getting fed up with the situation fast. This is a last ditch effort to try and get the outcome you wanted when you first came here.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 06:03 PM
just to add - I admittedly am not very savvy with advice and just shoot some thoughts out there. Usually - vets come around to expand and I learn from that process.

I do know that I have difficulty wrapping my head around the kind of hell Pat and other BS are going thru. In my situation - it was over before I could get my head in the game.

I question my own mental fortitude to go through some of these situations. All I can do is voice my support and throw a couple bullet items their way.

I think its perfectly ok for Patriot to vent his thoughts and mental state of his WW on this board - better to write it out here than to do it live in person and creating more drama.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 06:19 PM
Sometimes, events occur that force a priority change.
Stepping back Patriot, can you see that what is currently needing your effort/attention has drastically changed?

The moment your WW became violent/volatile/uncontrollable in front of your children, is the moment your priorities changed.

You cannot POJA with her. You cannot make attempts to meet her ENs. You cannot worry about love-busters, or disrespectful judgments. Not during a crisis where the safety of your children is at risk.
You must remove your plan A hat - and JUMP into plan PMC.
Protect My Children

If I were with a patient, discussing how to manage his hypertension & diabetes & quit smoking .... and he went into cardiac arrest .... I'd have to abandon my current "plans" and immediately JUMP to emergency procedures.

So it is with you.
At this time, you cannot act in defense of your marriage.
You must act in defense of your children.
If this includes putting yourself in the line of fire, instead of leaving your children alone with a raving lunatic, so be it.
If this includes making WW mad, having her arrested, getting a restraining order, so be it.

The game has changed, like it or not.
This is no longer "MARRIAGE BUILDING".
It is now PMC, no matter what !

If/when WW returns to a level of self-control where she can be trusted to NOT act out in front of the children, then marriage builders rules are back in the game.

But, not now.

Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 06:47 PM
In regard to moving and child custody: I believe that custody must be determined in the jurisdiction where the child has lived during the past 6 months.

I believe that Pat has mentioned moving back to where his family is with the children. That may not be possible if the custody must be decided in the jurisdiction where he is now living. Pat needs to consult an attorney.

That said, leaving one's children in the house with a violent parent will hurt Pat's case for custody, even if the other parent has never been violent toward the children.

Pat, I don't want to make you paranoid, but there have been people who KILLED their children to "get even" with the other parent. Do NOT take chances with your children's lives, even if you don't think your WW would hurt them.
Posted By: Mulan Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 07:02 PM
What Pepperband said.
Please Change Your Priorities.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 08:53 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Well, I went home after talking to her and insisting no crazy. So as soon as I walk in the door, crazy hits. She insists I call her parents right then and make it right. I call her parents and start talking to them and she is yealling in the background. Her Mom started crying and saying I know Joe, I wish we could help. Whatever you need to do we will support you 100%. Ten she demanded I snd e-mails to everyone saying what a crazy person I was so on. She had a conference call so I showered and left. Can't deal with crazy right now. I'll go home when the kids get out of school. Now she e-mails me every minute asking me to come home and speak calmly. Said no thanks. Tried that and it didn't work. Her friend from work finally called and it's all good there (thank god). So now I don't feel so bad about that. As you all have said, her support system has erroded and she thinks I'm trying to trap her. I have kept the message the same the whole time, I want to work on this. There is nothing that can't be fixed. Yes, lots of damage and no promise it can be undone, but I at least want to try. As you can imagine I get a big FU, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you. While I'm writting now just got an IM saying if I am planning on filling please don't. How flippin crazy are people. I know it's difficult to gauge how you would react to a situation until you're in it, but this is kookoo for coco puffs. Now I'm getting an i.m I'm concerned for you and your mental state. OMG...really.


I see no indication that Patriot left his children alone with his WW unless I've missed something. He simply removed himself from the situation until the kids came home from school and sat at Starbucks venting to us.

Seems safe and healthy to me. He's in a really tuff place.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/06/10 09:05 PM
Don't waste your time getting affadavits. They don't matter in court and are considered heresay. Nothing is more impressive than having people come in to testify on your behalf. That is the only thing that really impresses. Believe me. I've been through the process.

Affadavits might as well come from Ghandi himself. They don't care unless they hear it firsthand. So don't make your neighbors or anyone else uncomfortable.

Granted, they do have psychological value against your WW.

Also, if it's a home computer, then it is marital property and you can do whatever you want with it. It belongs to you and her equally.

Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/07/10 01:57 PM
I agree with HTLD about the Affadavits and that having the people there would be a bigger impact. If your MIL and FIL were there to support YOU, that would really say something too. Not all inlaws would do that though, but you could ask, since they know right now that YOU are the sane parent to their grandchildren. When/if your WW gets out of this fog, she would forgive them. My WH went to court with my BIL when WH's sister was trying to get custody of their child. My SIL was ANGRY that my WH would support her H, but she was also kookoo for coco puffs at the time(not sure she still isn't).

My BIL and SIL have an alternating week schedule with their daughter, which at least allows my niece every other week in sane ville.

I hope all goes well, and definitely consult an attorney if you are planning on moving.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 12:57 PM
PAT:
R U O K ?
bump
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 01:20 PM
Thanks all: Strange weekend. She has been in some kind of gathering info mode, soming to me about I found this and that. Now she can't stop taling to her sister and one of her friends. Of course they all think I am insane and manipulative, that the only reason I did this was out of jealousy and anger. I went out with some friends Saturday night. Told her I would be home about 12, no big deal. Well about 5 past 12, text one: Where are you? I said I'll be home in a bit. Then every 10 minutes after. I got home about 1:15 (I have not been out late in more than a year) and I find a pile of cloths outside the door. I pick them up and walk in and she's recording me. Saying I came in drunk and all. I show her the recipt for 3 beers and dinner over a 4 hour period. Then I explained into her recorder, I don't drive drunk, that's reserved for my wife when she's away. Whatever! Then I get the third degree for an hour, trying to go to different rooms to sleep. Telling me I can't come and go, blah, blah.

Well the next day she goes out to my car and goes through my stuff. That night some girls had put a sting of beeds on me. No big deal, nothing happened. Well of course they were in the car and I had to hear about me having an affair. I could do nothing but laugh at this. First she was angry, then the good, because your not getting it here and go have an affair I encourage you started which made it more pathetic. Her friend from work who I knew I should not have contacted has now told her she has two weeks to do "the right thing" and either have the charges expunged, or tell her boss. With the arrest, her dad wont talk to her and now this, she is in a pretty sour mood.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
With the arrest, her dad wont talk to her and now this, she is in a pretty sour mood.

Looks like she's getting a bit desperate. Desperate people can end up doing desperate and crazy things to try to maintain control. Be very careful

Going out with your friends on Sat and leaving her home (alone?) probably wasn't that great of an idea. Don't give her ammunition to use against you at this time. She will try to make mountains out of any molehills you offer to her.
Posted By: codtej Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 01:52 PM
Yea sounds like she is going off the deep edge and trying to lay some traps for you, even if they are weak ones. Who knows, with proper presentation her 'ammo' may be legit to a judge?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 03:27 PM
If you want to recover you don't go out to dinner for four hours on a Saturday night, and come home in the am either.

Plan A is not about giving it good as you have gotten from your WW.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Sometimes, events occur that force a priority change.
Stepping back Patriot, can you see that what is currently needing your effort/attention has drastically changed?

The moment your WW became violent/volatile/uncontrollable in front of your children, is the moment your priorities changed.

You cannot POJA with her. You cannot make attempts to meet her ENs. You cannot worry about love-busters, or disrespectful judgments. Not during a crisis where the safety of your children is at risk.
You must remove your plan A hat - and JUMP into plan PMC.
Protect My Children

If I were with a patient, discussing how to manage his hypertension & diabetes & quit smoking .... and he went into cardiac arrest .... I'd have to abandon my current "plans" and immediately JUMP to emergency procedures.

So it is with you.
At this time, you cannot act in defense of your marriage.
You must act in defense of your children.
If this includes putting yourself in the line of fire, instead of leaving your children alone with a raving lunatic, so be it.
If this includes making WW mad, having her arrested, getting a restraining order, so be it.

The game has changed, like it or not.
This is no longer "MARRIAGE BUILDING".
It is now PMC, no matter what !

If/when WW returns to a level of self-control where she can be trusted to NOT act out in front of the children, then marriage builders rules are back in the game.

But, not now.


GREAT POST, PEP!!!....

Wouldn't you agree that PMC is the nearly the same as Plan B???....

Pat,

Why, for the love of God, are you NOT in Plan B??....

This was recommended by EVERYONE. As soon as she was arrested, and instilled violence, THAT was the time to go to Plan B.

YOU are hampering her fall. You love this woman so much you don't want her to hit rock bottom. I get that, I was like that too. The only problem with that, is the WS doesn't get a chance to feel the full consequences of their actions. She can go ape-[censored] on you at any time, what is stopping her???...So she gets arrested, its not like YOU are going to press the charges. Not like YOU are going to get the RO against her. Its not like she is going to SEE just how bad her actions are.....

And as far as the children being "resilent" from watching this, boy, you are in your OWN FOG. This will leave a scar on the FOREVER!!!!....I can STILL tell you about the violent outbreaks my mom had as a child. I can tell you how now, 20 yrs later, my sister is going down that same path....

TAKE A STAND.....BE THE MAN YOUR WIFE AND CHILDREN NEED YOU TO BE RIGHT NOW...

And being this does not include going out to dinner and leaving your children with her.....you essentially are telling HER (and them) that it was okay what mommy did...

sheeshhhhh...

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 06:48 PM
Okay, I appreciate all the advice, but me going out for a few hours is not abandoning my kids (they were in bed) and I don't see a problem with escaping the crazy that is my life if only for a moment. As for Plan B....I NEED TO BE WORKING!! I have more or less moved upstairs and avoid her as much as possible. I am still cordial and nice, but she is now aware that I have limits and will leave. She is extremly pissed about the arrest. There is no getting around that and there is no talking right now. Best thing is to avaoid her when she is angry and that is most of the timee right now. She doesn't want this marriage to end and my patiance and ability to withstand her abuse is close to an end. Let nobody believe if the job situation was good that I would have allowed this continue. Right now I have two kids to care for. I have an all out job search going. The affair and all the other crap is secondary right now. She is not seeing him so the exposure worked (mostly) I know what you are saying about removal from the house, but I disagree that this is what's best. There has to be a point when you say I gave my best, now look ahead and care for your kids. I remove myself from arguments. I be nice and stay composed. I get a job and I care for my kids. If it ends the marriage so be it. But I will not continue to be subjected to scorn and abuse from anyone. Ya, my "love Bank" is about empty. There has been so much damage done....arrests, exposure, humiliation and scorn.....It aint over till it's over, but the fat lady is warming up her vocal coards.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 07:04 PM
Quote
Okay, I appreciate all the advice, but me going out for a few hours is not abandoning my kids (they were in bed)

This isn't going to look good for you in a court case if you were to use the fact that you should have custody because you fear what your WW might do to your children. Waywards who are desperate would be known to do desperate things.

You dodged a bullet that night when she was arrested, and WHY? Because YOU LISTENED to the advice you got on here to get yourself a VAR and record her. If not this would have been a totally different sitch. You have to realize that you can not go back and change what you did, but you can learn from your mistakes and not repeat them.

Everyone on here is trying to help you protect yourself and your children. If you can also get sound advice on how to do it while also having a chance to turn your M around, then why wouldn't you listen to it?

You have all of the information at hand that can help you develop a GRAND PLAN. Whichever way you choose to go is up to you, use the advice to get you closer to that which you seek.

Thinking of you and yours.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 08:31 PM
Oh, sure, you're going to say her being removed from the house isn't the right thing to do.

What're you going to do when she abuses one of your children?

I'll get fried for this but it HAS to be in your mind. If she abuses your children now, it will be because YOU DID NOT PROTECT THEM.

How do you think the kids will feel when they realize daddy knew how mommy was and didn't protect them?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 08:45 PM
"but me going out for a few hours is not abandoning my kids " puke

"If you want to recover you don't go out to dinner for four hours on a Saturday night, and come home in the am either.

Plan A is not about giving it good as you have gotten from your WW.

To have a healthy marriage you have to act healthy sigh

Going out to dinner without your spouse on any night especially a Saturday night is not acting healthy. rant2

"I don't see a problem with escaping the crazy that is my life if only for a moment." puke

Your fogged up as any WW can be. MrRollieEyes

Walk around the block, wash the car, tend to a hobby in the garage, yard work. These are acceptable steam releasing activities.

Going out solo on any night for dinner and drinks is not. sigh
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 09:17 PM
Plan B Go to court and tell them you are afraid and use the violence she has allready done along with whetever makes you scared now to get her out. Bring up her affair, Ask her Dad to stand with you. Pi$$ her off and get her out so she can have a fit and fall in it.

She is gonna scrw you Pat, You can't plan A her its past that. Its now time for her to get her head examined.
Then when she stops being a scheming witch, yes witch, you might have a chance of recovery.

If she is gone from the house and has supervised visits with the kids you have a chance to recover, anything less is just cruelty to an emotionally disturbed women and her kids and you are the only one who can change it.. so.. do it and stop letting this go on
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 09:20 PM
Do we need to get Pariah back over here posting his recordings?

Because with patriot's head buried in the sand, I'm worried for him...that his WW might go to those lengths.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 10:47 PM
I don't know you and you don't know me. I will tell you this...keep those type of opinions to yourself. IF I thought there was the slightest chance she would hurt the kids, she would be gone. There is no chance of that happening and for you to suggest otherwise makes you an idiot. She is mad at me, not her kids.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 10:50 PM
And I'm tell you there are people who have KILLED THEIR KIDS to get revenge at their spouse.

Do you just not want to hear what could happen if you ignore this time-bomb?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 02/08/10 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I don't know you and you don't know me. I will tell you this...keep those type of opinions to yourself. IF I thought there was the slightest chance she would hurt the kids, she would be gone. There is no chance of that happening and for you to suggest otherwise makes you an idiot. She is mad at me, not her kids.

Pat, you don't EVEN want to know what just happened about 20 miles away from me to two kids whose parents were splitting up. Let's just say he wanted to hurt his WW, and he knew that killing HER wouldn't hurt her. cry
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 12:21 AM
My father is frequently very angry at everything in his life.

Does he dump it on his friends? No.

His girlfriend? No.

ME! Because I am a "safe" place to dump his anger and if he does so there are no consequences.

Because I am "his child" and therefore have no right to defend myself. At least in his mind.

DO NOT let yourself think your kids are safe.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 01:13 AM
interesting this crowd is slapping the BS around.

Pat has shown good instincts and has been doing things quite quickly. Most BH are still in denial at his stage.

I would trust he knows the landscape and climate of the home situation -

I see no issues getting out of the nut house for a few hours -

Pat

2 concerns -

1.) her job is in jeopardy which will change the dynamic of this situation. Not sure what can be done with it.

2.) She is gathering her evidence and may be planning to get you on false accusations. Be very very aware and careful.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 01:24 AM
MANY a BS(including myself) have been hit with 2x4s when we did something wrong. I don't see a problem with it and I don't think anyone was being cruel. They were just telling him the possible consequences of his actions. Just like when they gave him advice on the VAR(which thankfully he listened too and followed marvelously).

My IM was telling me that her son, who was a SAHD to his successful Nursing school teacher wife, had this sitch happen to him. His wife was the one abusing him but when the police came she cried DV. He was taken out in handcuffs, thrown in jail and hasn't seen his sons in 8 weeks. He has to go to court to get SUPERVISED 1-2 hour visits. She had the A and she abused him and he has to get the supervised visits and live on his friend's couch. NUTTY but TRUE
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 01:25 AM
Patriot is in denial about the lengths his crazy WW will go to. He does not see that he's pretending a time bomb does not exist.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 02:17 AM
I am not seeing how he is pretending there is no "time bomb"

In less then 2 or 3 weeks - he has fully exposed the affair far and wide - which may cost his WW her job - the family only means of income at this time, has put a mortal wound if not final nail into the affair, elicited help and support even from the WW parents, protected himself from abuse and had her arrested and thrown in a cell for the night.

I am seeing someone who has moved quick and seems to have his head in the right place. This is difficult crap and there is enough difference in stitches to allow some flexibility in the "cookie cutter" approach.

His WW is off the chart emotional wreck - but isnt that a normal response to what she has endured with her fantasy being destroyed and a night in jail? I figured either she would be angry or she would be a mascara dripping remorseful WW. So far her actions aren't much different than expected. In fact I am surprised she didnt take off for Dallas once freed to her OM.

But again I will say that he must NOT keep his guard down. She is no dummy and will seek a way to get the upper hand. Still not sure why she doesn't want a divorce-what did she expect from her actions or is this way to get his guard down? I am confident that Pat knows the situation and if he has doubts will ask for advice.

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 02:38 AM
I am far from in denial. I understand what you are saying and again, if there was any danger to my kids I would have them removed immediately. Yes, she is mad, VERY mad about jail, who wouldn't be. Does she blame me...of course. Did she have any responsibility in it, of course not. The advise you all have given has been priceless.....REALLY. But I am hear and I am telling you there is NO CHANCE the kids are in danger. Are they having to endure more than they should in the way of emotional strain....yes. I am trying to minimize that by leaving when things appear to be escalating. Not for long, a 20 minute drive then I come home. When there in school, maybe a couple hours. I understand what you all are saying, but my head is on strait now and I am thinking very clearly. I will continue on the program to try and fix the marriage, but I am fully prepared to leave if need be. She knows this and is scared that will happen. The camera and stuff is all chest pumping. There is nothing there and she knows it. I listen to the talk and move on. I make no appologies for going out for 4 hours 1 night and accually having a good time. I have stopped talking to others about this as I feel the time has come to see what happens and not stir the nest for a while. She has shared her phone showing no more contact. I get the name of the hotel and all when she is out of town and that's a start. Considering where we were 3 weeks ago, it's a giant step.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 02:47 AM
Ok Pat you are in charge. Keep the recorder running and watch out for plotting females.

Rooting for ya, I hope you both get marriage counselling underway soon so thier is a balanced mediator between you both that might build up a relationship you both can trust again.

Maybe I missed it but have you guys tryed the Doc H? Or is WW not interested at this time?
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 02:50 AM
You leave when things get rough?

Shouldn't she be the one leaving?

You don't know that the kids aren't in danger. You never know when they are with a person who is prone to a violent fit like your WW is.

I'm rooting for you, but I'm also afraid for you. Keep that recorder on you.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 02:59 AM
Well Karma either his WW is a total nutcase or there were problems already before she pulled the stunt.

Most of us on this site have made mistakes that have led to marital problems. We did not all go out and have an affair but..


well we all could have gotten some counseling before things got bad and for a reason.

I would love to see Pats wife get some counseling whether she recovers with him or not. The point is matital recovery is the best for all of them. But she needs help either way. People don't have affairs without there being some reason, even if its dumb or selfish.

If you feel she is safe to be around Pat and you want to give her time to calm down that is very kind of you. I hope you arent burnt out Pat and lose your love for her in the process. You have been thru a lot.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 03:12 PM
My concern, Pat, is that she is experiencing a ton of stressful events in a short period of time, from job loss, to jail, family disruption, the mess of involving an OM in the M. All of these things can lead a fragile person to a breaking point. Please be very conscious of her right now.
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 03:17 PM
If this was a BW that had been abused would anyone support her letting her abusive husband back in the house and leaving him alone with the kids?
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 03:55 PM
Pat- you don't know what she is capable of. Did you think she would ever have an affair? Did you think you would ever have to call the cops on her?

PLEASE protect your children. Do not leave them with your WW.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/09/10 06:58 PM
I think that might be Pats point. She is a woman not a man. now I have two storys here.

My wife before she started drinking again had issues and we had isssues between each other but she was a great mom to the children while they were young. It wasn't untill two major things happenned that she fell apart.
1. The children got old enough to question authority,(and her and God).
2. My wife had to deal with the reality that what she really wanted to do was party like a rock star. Lots of attention and whatever drugs she could get her hands on. In my wifes head that was the true meaning of success. She got it from her died in the streets alcoholic Mom and her narcistic twisted Dad.
She just HAD to prove to them that she was better than them. She couldn't stop saving them or trying to show them how much smarter she was than them. That kind of pride is borne of pain and abuse/neglect.

When she talked to the street ppl who were cronic users they would allways say "You are not the kind of person to be in this" "Your different get out now" but Heroin doesn't care where you come from or what you did before, it takes you just the way you are. Well point is.. When she was in line with the other methadone ppl at the clinic she would hear stories about women who were in jail. disgusting stuff she said. One women who wanted to join a gang had to set her children on fire,(5) for initiation. Of coursethen there were the hookers out there too. Very nasty stuff.


Things for my wife went downhill fast when she started lieing and hiding a drug problem. After two years of waiting for her to get herself together I found out that it was the drugs, not her life, that were influencing her and making her act strange. All the while I was pleading that she seek counselors and/or her Pastor.

Now my children have to find a way to understand why they weren't important enough to her to stick around for and they also have to battle with whatever guilt she might have left them as they watched her spiral down in the last ten years untill passed away.

Mental illness takes many forms and ussually looks like it makes sense to the emotionally disturbed. The truth is its those on the outside that suffer when ppl feel entitled to destroy their life and we watch. Its only our relationship with God that keeps us from falling into the same pit with them as we try to save them.

I believe you and your wife are both suffering, she from an illusion and you from heartache Pat. Many of us have had stuff shock us into being extremely caustious when it comes to matter of the heart. A biblical quote.

Proverbs 4:23 (King James Version)

23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

It takes time and the help of others outside the marital union to keep us all objective. Keep seeking counsel because it is the wisest thing you can do.

God Bless
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 12:14 AM
I appreciate what all are saying, but I am 100% sure my kids are safe with her. Did I think she would have an affair..no. But we all know that given the right circumstances things can happen. NOT condoning, so don't beat me, I'm just saying we have all been tempted from time to time, difference is we remembered we're married. Yes, the fact that her job is now on the line, the OM is out of the picture (pretty sure for now) and the jail thing are all pretty bad. Not to mention that the neighbors all know she was arrested makes it tough. She is fine one minute, then I get the rath about having her arrested and calling her friends. Believe me, if there is one person not cut out for a night in jail, it was her. No talk in a couple days about anything to dramatic. The occasional anger, not much more. She showed me her phone records and itinerary for the coming weeks when she travels and I didn't even ask. I'm not sure if she is trying, or if she was told to play nice until her charges come up. Not real sure. Of course it was only Saturday that my cloths were thrown out and I was locked in the garage. Day to day, notelling what tomorrow (or tonight) will bring. Peace to all!
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 04:04 AM
You're doing fine, Pat. Keep up the vigilance. Don't let her words get to you. They're the words of someone in denial over the enormity of what she did.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 05:05 AM
Pat, you can never be sure that your children are safe with a woman who can behave as she did.

It is sad that you trust her so much after all this.

You are running headlong into a buzz-saw, as another MBer writes, and yet you plug your ears and go LA LA LA LA...
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 05:09 AM
Quote
Believe me, if there is one person not cut out for a night in jail, it was her.

If in the county lockup - wife's friend said the most humiliating and degrading thing a woman can go through and she was a stripper. She was picked up for unpaid traffic tickets. By the time she was processed and in her new jail stripes - she couldnt wait to get in the cell. Twelve hours in small cell with nothing but your thoughts and she had one break - a bologne sandwich for breakfast - well lets just say - tickets will paid on time now.

Apparently if we didnt get down there quick enough - she was close to being transferred to general population and another couple of days would be required to get her out.

You mentioned charges - has the case been taken over by the Texas AG?
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 05:13 AM
How many traffic tickets do you have to NOT PAY to get put in prison?! dontknow
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 06:35 AM
Not sure - it took several warrants though. On occasion there are periods of amnesty where you can get yourself straightened out without threat of jail time.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 08:54 AM
Be very careful Pat thats all, fore-warned is fore-armed.

Does she have support,(I mean people she trusts), that you feel are responsible intelligent, and sensitive to your whole familys needs? That would make me feel better if I knew she was talking to a Pastor/priest/counselor who had everyones best interest in mind.

I hope she does Pat and she is not relying on the advice of your SIL.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 01:09 PM
Karmasrose: Do me a favour and find another thread.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 01:15 PM
I don't know if it made it to the AG, I'm sure it's there by now. The attorney she hired seems to think there is a strong chance it can be dismissed. There were no injuries and no priors and I didn't put a restraining order on her so that's what they are working towards. As for her night in jail, she wasn't lucky enough to stay out of gen pop. She was transfered to County and was there for 24hrs. Right now there is no getting past that. everything is fine, then she remembers jail and it's all over.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/10/10 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
How many traffic tickets do you have to NOT PAY to get put in prison?! dontknow
1

If you don't pay and don't show up for court and the judge orders a bench warant, thats all it takes.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 02:14 AM
Alright, I will, but I am telling you, you're walking a terribly fine line here.

I don't want your kids to go through what I had to.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 02:33 AM
I don't know what you went through and you're right, from the sound of it, I don't want that to happen to me. I do know that whatever else happens, she will not take it out on the kids. Thanks for the good intent and I wish you well.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 02:37 AM
I grew very angry because I saw you, thinking that your WW would never hurt her kids.

My grandparents refused to see how my father's verbal and mental abuse affected me. They liked to pretend it didn't exist.

Keep an eye on things and don't let your children suffer.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 03:23 AM
You got it. Thanks for the advise.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 04:36 AM
Patriot - you may find that there are a few of us who have a bit of PTSD about parents fighting.

My mother was abused by my father decades ago - he was raging, breaking things, throwing things, shoving her around. Back then you didn't call the police on domestic violence issues. It wasn't talked about.

But the trauma my mother caused me personally by leaving the home - and her children - with a drunk, raging man in the home... thinking he wouldn't hurt his kids. I was scrubbing the house all night long trying to avoid his wrath...

My mother was oblivious.

That's why everyone's just a little alarmed. Your wife, pre-affair might not have harmed your children. But she's not that woman anymore.

You don't know who she is. And she's bent on blaming you for her violence and her arrest.

That's a problem.

That's a leading indicator that things are not past the sudden, traumatic, explosive, harmful surprise-around-the-next corner stage.

She needs to own this. Has she started to do that yet?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 12:39 PM
No, not at all. I am still to blame for her arrest. She doesn't get that in order for the police to arrest a husband, there has to be overwhelming proof and she doesn't see that. It's only been about a week, so with time and if she can get it dismissed, maybe she'll calm down. She has calmed down some, not acting crazy ALL of the time now. She is traveling today and then next week Sunday-Thursday, so I wont see much of her for a while. Right now plan-B would be the way to go, but until I can land a job, that's tough to do. It's only been 6 weeks since this all started, but a life time of crap has happenend.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
It's only been about a week, so with time and if she can get it dismissed, maybe she'll calm down.

Do you have any input into that situation? If you do, I suggest you don't lie or attempt to minimize what happened in order to have it dismissed. Your WW will use that as "proof" that that you ARE to blame for what happened; that your guilty conscience over what you did is driving you to help her now.



Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 01:02 PM
This arrest is not an "Ace in the hole" for anyone. If they get divorced, it will be treated as a seperate issue, and as Mr. W pointed out, her atty will do everything he/she can to make it look like Pat was in the wrong, somehow.

A good frined of mine had a gun heald to her head by her XH (then H) for over 8 hours. She fell asleap and the next morning had to get dressed and go to work like NOTHING was wrong. SHe went straight to the police station. He was arrested and processed.

In her divorce, the assult was not considered. <Ya, even waving around a firearm!>
She wound up paying him alimony for 5 years. (He COULD have gotten longer and more). She did get a lot of support and her atty gave her a huge discounted divorce, but the judge was not allowed to "consider" the charge. Well, officially anyway.

But the positive thing is she did the right thing right away. NOT that Pat should take this course of action if he does not want to. Listen to my advice, <just read it, consider it then filter it out, keep what you need.>
My point is, DVC does not assure anything.

But maybe it is different where you live.

Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by patriot45
It's only been about a week, so with time and if she can get it dismissed, maybe she'll calm down.

Do you have any input into that situation? If you do, I suggest you don't lie or attempt to minimize what happened in order to have it dismissed. Your WW will use that as "proof" that that you ARE to blame for what happened; that your guilty conscience over what you did is driving you to help her now.

I believe that this issue is out of Pats hands. He may be asked to write a letter to the judge- if the prosecutor does not want to persue this -
but other than that- the report is the report.

If Pat does say anything (in a letter) he can be supportive of his marriage and family without changing any fact of what happened.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/11/10 05:37 PM
That is exactly what the attorney wants. I told him what happened and they are seeking a dismissal. All of the attorneys we spoke with feel this will happen, but there is no gurantee. This is one of the toughest counties in the country when it comes to Dom. Violence. They told me if it were in Travis County (Austin) they would have done nothing. We'll see what happens. She will have to act contrite and take responsibility for what happened though. When she meets the DA, she is going to have to be convincing, even if she doesn't really believe it if she wants a dismissal. The last two nights she was home were a little heated. She kept wakeing me up to talk about all this. It's just rehashing which is pointless. At this point I think it would be easier to figure out Einstiens theory of relativity than know what she wants. It changes every day. One day she loves me, the next hate. One day divorce, the next day no. One day see other people if you want, the next questioning my every move. Right now as I've said my focus is on work and caring for the kids. As for the rst, time will tell, but my patience for the drama is wearing very thin.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 10:01 AM
Do you feel that she will seek to seperate based on how embarressed she is with the night in lockup and court?
In other words she will leave because if she does it implies there are problems at home that arent her fault. That she was just acting out of defense for herself and that the law was "fooled" into charging her.

It would be a pride issue of course IMO
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 12:48 PM
If you are still willing to write your letter, it can be (don't vomit) a character refrence. You do not have to deny or support the facts (leave that to the police report), but you are going to have to state what you want to have happen to the judge.

She will get letters sent on her behalf to the judge also (from other people).
You must understand that she is way foggy. SHE does not think she is a violent person, or a bad person for that matter. She probably thinks she has been a good wife, no?

(like I said don't vomit)
If her job is sensative, she can have the file sealed, and the charges taken "under --ohh, shooze I forgot the word. advisement, that's it.

That means that if she does the probation/DV counsceling and shows improvement she will get the record expunged. Expect about 12 months of meetings and HELL when she comes home from one.

by the way-- the arrest record will always be there, nmw.

Then the fun starts. If this happens, I can give you more info. Hope it gets dropped, and your WW goes for serious IC and medications for ANXIETY and depression.
Real MC will not happen until these other issues are addressed.

It will take MONTHS before she is even close to ready.

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 01:21 PM
I already turned in a letter so now we wait. Yes Barbie, she does think she was a good wife. It's all my fault, blah blah blah. She did have something of a breakthrough the other night when she told me the affair was some sort of payback for how bad I made her feel. I guess that's at least an acknowledgement (sort of) that it was wrong. Baby steps, baby steps. Someone else asked if she was planning on leaving after this, to be honest I don't think so, but I really don't know where her mind is at now. She hates me for jail, no getting around that. As for "us" I don't know. I know she is scared of going alone but she is also not sure if she can regain the feelings she once had for me. Right now there are moments of "like" but more moments of hate for jail and exposure. Oh well, this to shall pass.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 01:40 PM
Well, maybe it will pass, maybe not. The one thing for sure, your WW needs IC and probably meds to stop the constant triggering the emotional trauma provides- (that goes for a lot of BS, too).

Humiliation is a powerful weapon people use -- against themselves. Until she can clearly see the reasons, and her part, for the A and the argument that lead up to the arrest--there is no point going- yet, to MC. She has to accept that people make BIG errors, everyone has a melt down point, (just like eveyone is wired for A's) it is just the form/type the melt down takes that needs to be addressed.

Some people internalize pain and blame themselves, many examles here in some situations, some act out, MANY examples here, too. Both types of agression are unhealthy and need to be helped.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 01:47 PM
Just completely disregard her anger and hatred re the jail. If she senses you are taking any responsibility for it, she will use it , forever, as justification for her cheating.
You really need to have a reaction of incredulity if she tries to assign any blame to you for her getting arrested. Look at her in a bewildered manner, like "what on earth are you talking about."
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/12/10 10:51 PM
Well, just had ugly talk number 1,000. She came back from Dallas this morning and of course I had to ask if she saw OM. Well that was it. Telling me no, I told you it's over and besides it's none of your business. I said last I checked we were still married which makes it mine. Her response is I hate you for ruining my relationship with my family. I hate you for jail, I hate what you've done to my job. Then I get my priorities are the kids and my job....that's it. So I said I understand that you hate me, I expected that. My priorities are finding work and the kids and the rest will take care of itself. Then, I get "what does that mean, are you getting a divorce"? Am I missing something here? She called while I was typing and she is calmer, but the same stuff. I said look, lets work on what we can. You getting your case dismissed and me finding work. The rest is day to day and all other talk is hyperthetical. Deal with the problems at hand and the rest will work itself out. Then I get are you going to do anymore crazy (expose). Nope, I'm all done. Then she asks what if we get a divorce, are you going to try and take the kids? I said I am concerning myself with the here and now. I am not filing, so let's just move along. I have never felt so drained in all my life. I read some of the stories how people do this for months or years and I cannot imagine.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 12:17 AM
patriot,

I am waiting for you to finally look her in the eye and say something along the lines of

"Now look. You had the affair and everything that has happened is a consequence of that affair. You can try to blame me, but I REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT. Your actions caused the problems you, your decisions caused the problems you have. It is time to grow up and realize your choices have consequences and what has happened are the consequences of YOUR CHOICES."

And then walk away.

She cannot blame you if you refuse to accept her blame and tell her so.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 12:19 AM
Pat: No one can do this forever. I took about 5 months of abuse before I threw in the towel. But my situation was not yours - I don't think I would have lasted more than a few months under your conditions.

The best you can do is make a good Plan A, prepare for Plan B (job, finances, etc.) and keep pushing forward.

There is an end to all this, one way or the other. But if you really want to do your part to save the marriage, you have to make sure you go to Plan B before your love bank is completely depleted, otherwise there will be nothing to sustain your for the many months (years) that a Plan B can take.

Best of luck.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 01:38 PM
Trust me I have told her she shares in the blame but she'll have none of it. Yesterday she came back from Dallas because her flights had been cancelled she had to spend the night. She told me she was staying at the airport hotel when in fact she was staying at a hotel she use to meet him at. When I asked her about it she swore up and down she did not see or speak to him. She told me it was none of my buisness and stop checking on her. She said the best she can do for me right now is not to hate you and try and get along for the kids. Then I get YOU need to fix this. You had me a arrested and YOU ruined my family relationship. I said YOU had the affair and YOU fianantially bankrupted us. For every action there is a reaction. Then I get you had no right to go outside of us and tell people and I said you had no right to have an affair and bring it into our lives. You had choices and you chose badly. I even remained very calm. I said there is not a lot of like between us right now, lets drop the us talk and work on what we can right now. Let's try and get along and go from there. Nothing can be fixed today and talking about it all the time does no good, so lets give it a rest. That seemed to calm things for a while. We'll see what today brings.
Posted By: shaken Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 02:55 PM
Pat,

I am very impressed with how you are handling this now. At first it seems you were her doormat, now you are taking control.

She is lost, this is a side of you she is not use to it seems. She keeps trying to get you with her blameshifting gun fully loaded. Once she has emptied it she sees her bullets missed the whole target and you still have bullets ready in your reverse babble gun and are as calm as Clint Eastwood about to make a kill. Are you sure she didn't see OM in Dallas?

I am very impressed.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 04:07 PM
"She told me she was staying at the airport hotel when in fact she was staying at a hotel she use to meet him at." redflag

This shows why you must still snoop. She's stil lying.

You are handling yourself well.
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"She told me she was staying at the airport hotel when in fact she was staying at a hotel she use to meet him at." redflag

This shows why you must still snoop. She's stil lying.

You are handling yourself well.

More of an "in-your-face-you-can't-control-me-push-your-buttons" kind of a statement choice on her part.

Plan B Patriot. Prep for Plan D.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by KaylaAndy
More of an "in-your-face-you-can't-control-me-push-your-buttons" kind of a statement choice on her part.

Plan B Patriot. Prep for Plan D.

ITA Kayla.......an utter sign of DISRESPECT if you ask me....(which you didn't..... grin)

Pat,

I have refrained from commmenting on your thread because it is exasperating to me. This cycle of crazy-making has been going on ad-nausium.

She cannot MAKE you responsible.....just like you cannot MAKE her end her affair. Yes, you can do everything in your power to make it uncomfortable (which I commend you for doing), but ultimately it comes to her.

I still stand by my suspicions that the whole blow-up scene at the hotel between her and OM was more on her end than his......after what she has pulled with YOU, I have no doubts that security had more words for HER than him. I also wouldn't be surprised if this affair is completely OVER. And I would venture to guess that HE is the one wanting NOTHING MORE to do with your wife. After the hotel incident and now her getting arrested (make no bones about it that he knows what happened only he was told it was YOU who caused it.....but after the hotel incident, he can't deny that he suspects she is lying to him.....).

And yes, she is behaving like a 2 yr. old who had her pacifier taken away for good. Do what JL said.....when she starts with the stupidness, just calmly state...."I will not take blame for this....." and WALK AWAY.

And I'm sorry, but just because you don't have a job yet, does NOT mean you can't do a Plan B. We have had MANY MANY MANY stay-at-home-moms on here go into Plan B and do it well. Yes, you may end up having to file in order to secure financial security, but it CAN BE DONE. Using the "no job" line is a conflict-avoiding.

You say you are tired and weary of the drame, well, YOU can change that....IF you really want to.....take it from me, a BTDT girl....

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 05:29 PM
100%, no. She swore on the life of her kids that she did not see him....who knows for sure. She said she didn't tell me she was staying there because she knew it would upset me. Well let me see, he lives 10 minutes from the hotel, so ya, maybe I would be a little suspicious. Again, I don't get the impression she is seeing him but I am not with her all the time. She also put a block on inquiries if you call her hotel, so when I called to see if she was there, they said no. What's real strange is the conflicting message I constantly receive. Like I've said, one minute stay out of my life, the next she wants to know my every move and checks up on me. When I'm out I get texts every 10 minutes. When she's away, I get them all the time. I've stopped responding to every trivial message which makes her think I'm up to something. I don't know what she thinks I'm doing because I'm the only one who has delivered a clear and concistent message through all this. I am done with the exposure or any other pressures. If she gets back with him, so be it, I just move on. I think Barbie said it best that right now there is no marriage, so counceling or any talk about reconciling things is a mute point. Just getting along and moving forward is most important.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
100%, no. She swore on the life of her kids that she did not see him....who knows for sure.

ummmm....you will find that on pg. 123 of the "How to Successfully Be a Wayward" manual......in the chapter..."How to Bullchit your Spouse"

MrRollieEyes

I could care less what WW is doing, what are YOU doing to end this cycle?

not2fun
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 05:51 PM
Quote
She told me she was staying at the airport hotel when in fact she was staying at a hotel she use to meet him at

Quote
She also put a block on inquiries if you call her hotel, so when I called to see if she was there, they said no.

10 min from his home - not much else to say, eh?

Quote
What's real strange is the conflicting message I constantly receive. Like I've said, one minute stay out of my life, the next she wants to know my every move and checks up on me.

Its all about her - this is one selfish wayward. I like what JL posted - short and pithy. Need to level set - apparently she is not one bit remorseful of her actions. Incredible.

MC would be a waste of time and money - her actions speaks volumes of the status of the marriage.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 05:57 PM
Nevermind ...
Posted By: ElCamino72 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/13/10 10:22 PM
Pat,

I think I wrote this before in your thread. I'm afraid I'm being redundant here but I'll ask again. Do you think that you can convince your WW to talk to the Harleys?

Steve Harley has an incredible ability to talk to a WS. I think that in your situation it would be well worth it. You aren't going to help her much at this point because she's so angry with you. She won't listen to you. I'm worried that your window is closing so something's got to change. That's where I think the Harleys can step in to attempt to get the message through.

You could try to get her to talk to a MB coach by saying something like: "You know, I could be wrong about the way I've handled this situation. Perhaps we can try to consult with a MC to help ME in dealing with this in a more civilized manner". Like my WW did, your WW may see it as an opportunity to tell an MC how wrong you are.

The Harleys will give you a fair assessment of her waiwarness and give you a plan specific to your situation. Who knows, they may get a message through the fog.

I can say that the best advice I got in this forum was to make an appointment with the Harleys. I did and I can't be thankful enough.

Give it a try.

--ElCamino72
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/14/10 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
100%, no. She swore on the life of her kids that she did not see him

Translation: I checked in to the hotel and invited the OM over, but he turned me down, so yes, I'm telling the truth - I did not see him.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/14/10 02:13 PM
mim

Your very good at translating. grin
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/14/10 09:13 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
100%, no. She swore on the life of her kids that she did not see him

Translation: I checked in to the hotel and invited the OM over and we did things you'd only do to farm animals all night.

We even rented a circus midget.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/14/10 09:19 PM
"Swore on the life of her kids"

I agree with Pariah's translation. When you go to this extreme in conversation you are trying to convince the other person to believe you, because you are lying...
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 02:02 AM
Thanks for the visual.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 12:28 PM
mim pariah

you have me so torn with your translating skills MrRollieEyes
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 12:34 PM
MiM is the optimist, I am the reality.

I learned that the bigger the LIE the more outlandish the claims of truth were. The ultimate LIE ends with swearing on the lives of the children.

Otherwise, truth has nothing to hide. His WW is miles deep in an abyss of lies.

Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by Pariah
MiM is the optimist, I am the reality.

LOL. I wouldn't say I'm an optimist. My experience with my FWW during her A-time was that she was REALLY good at the half-truths and deflections. This looked like a deflection to me - pull all the attention to the fact that the OM had not come to the hotel, to avoid answering the question of whether or not she'd actually contacted him / invited him to join her.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 01:42 PM
Her comment was there was no contact, I did not speak with him I did not meet for drinks, there was nothing. The best though was when she told me it was none of my business. I had to laugh at that one. Her quote was my relationship with him is really none of your business. There is nothing happening or going to happen and that's all you need to know". i.e you screwed it up and I hope you are happy.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 01:54 PM
Your reply should be, "no I'm not happy, you destroyed our marriage with your choice to have an affair. You want to date other men, then lets divide everything up and get divorced.

YOU will have to pay ME spousal support until I can get a job, not to mention I will have custody of the children until your CRIMINAL record and uncontrolled VIOLENCE is dealt with. YOU swore on the life of MY children, which makes you an unfit mother."
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 02:10 PM
When a WW pulls the "I swear on my kids" card, it means she can't come up with any other outlandish tale to deflect you off the scent. It is a sign of desparation. I have a feeling Pariah is right.

This woman is really toxic right now. Pariah and myself are proof positive of the lengths a WW will go to feed the affair.
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Her comment was there was no contact, I did not speak with him I did not meet for drinks, there was nothing.

Please tell me you're not buying this obvious bullchit!
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 05:20 PM
Absolutely do not underestimate what she is capable of.

I NEVER thought my XW was capable of taking out a hit on me.

Desperate people do desperate things, and to cover up her adultery, mine was willing to play grieving widow.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 07:46 PM
No, I'm afraid I'm at a point were I've become apathetic to the whole situation. I am doing what I need to do to move ahead and get my life in order. The affair has become somewhat secondary in the scheme of things. I don't know for sure if it's still physical, but there is still contact and that is enough. A month ago I would have been paralyzed by it, now it almost doesn't matter. I'm still trying, but I don't have the urgency anymore. I'm hanging with friends more, taking the kids out, just being busy and moving on which has been a good thing. Can't make her do things and I am done trying to force the issue. Made plans to take the kids skiing next month during break. She didn't care to much for that because she has to work.....oh well smile
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 10:57 PM
What arrangements have you made toward Plan B?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/15/10 11:14 PM
I guess it's about that time. It would have to be a modified plan B. We would have to live together, but I could minimize contact with her. I could stay upstairs and she down. I can make myself scarce when she's home and only take calls if they pertain to the kids, or just have them take her calls. That's about the best I can do right now. Problem with something like that is she would have to agree to it (sort of). What if she follows you around (which she would) wanting to talk to you? Kind of hard to ignore someone who is doing that.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 12:00 AM
That's why it is a lot easier to do when they are not in the house. I don't know your reasons for doing it this way and I am sure some people have tried to do it. I will have to let the vets handle this.

In my sitch, I packed up my WH's things and told him that it hurt me too much to live like this. It took about 30 minutes but he did leave. Then the next morning I woke up to 7 phone calls and 3 emails. Over the next few days, it continued. I unplugged the answering machine and he texted me. He still tries to send messages through the kids. He is at least attempting to use the IMs.

I think this will be harder for you to accomplish in your sitch due to her freak out moments.

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 05:30 PM
Okay, I need some of the veterans opinions. I called her hotel in Midland today and asked for the OM, sure enough they put me through which meens he was there. So, she has been calling all day and I have ignored it. Should I tell her I know, or just go to plan B/D? I know if I tell her she'll have some excuse and I don't really want to hear it. How would any of you approach this? She comes home tomorrow, should I send an e-mail explaining what I know, or wait and say nothing, just go to Plan B? Thanks for the help.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 05:32 PM
Tell her you know. Do not argue. Then plan B...
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 05:44 PM
When she arrives home she should find a suitcase of her things sitting on the front steps with your Plan B letter attached.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 05:45 PM
Perfect, Fred.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:15 PM
I think you should talk to your attorney pronto.
About a temporary order giving you custody and primary use of the home. Put her out, LEGALLY.

Have this done before she returns -- and have her things packed and waiting. Letter on Top.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:16 PM
Good points, Lexxxy.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
When she arrives home she should find a suitcase of her things sitting on the front steps with your Plan B letter attached.

DITTO
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:21 PM
Patriot, I wholeheartedly agree with Fred and Lexxy. You have been a champ through this and have acted with great class and selfcontrol. Consult an attorney, write your letter, do things right. Pull the plug on this. This woman does not even deserve an explanation much less a heads up of what is to come.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:28 PM
Get with your lawyer, have her legally removed from the house, and to to plan B. That would be my recommended plan of action.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:30 PM
>selfcontrol

You've got this in spades, Pat.

I live down the road from you and it was all I could do NOT to jump in my car and go open a can o'whoop@ss on your waynerd.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, I need some of the veterans opinions. I called her hotel in Midland today and asked for the OM, sure enough they put me through which meens he was there.

Damn - looks like Pariah called it right on this one. I was hoping for the sake of your M that he was wrong.

WW's are evil, evil, evil.

Did you actually speak to the OM?

I agree on Plan B. Re-exposure too. Persons need to know that she's continuing to see the OM, even though she's denying it.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:33 PM
Act quickly Pat.

Do it legally. Get an emergency hearing. With her history of domestic violence you need this protection!

Time is on your side right now, with her being out of town.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:34 PM
Plan on getting your locks changed too! Tonight.

Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:34 PM
............and MIDLAND????????????????????

Could there BE a less gross place in the world to get away?

I think not.

Proof positive that she's lost her effing mind.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:37 PM
Empty the accounts and use the money to retain an attorney.

You want spousal support, the house and the kids.

Oh, and she should come home to find her stuff on fire in the front yard for all the neighbors to witness.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 06:38 PM
ITA with Pariah about the $$.
Posted By: Gack1 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 07:13 PM
I hope you are at the lawyers office right now instead of reading this.

Plan-B, or Plan-D is necessary now
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
............and MIDLAND????????????????????

Could there BE a less gross place in the world to get away?

I think not.

Proof positive that she's lost her effing mind.


Midland good grief

time to leave limbo land - time to get regain the initiative. Obviously she hasnt learn a thing and frankly doesnt care who she hurts. Its all about her.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 08:52 PM
Patriot,

Just for "fun", actually you need to do this, reexpose to his family, your family, her family. She is/was/will lie. Get to the lawyer and get this done.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 08:57 PM
Praying for you, Patriot.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: rc2009 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
>selfcontrol

You've got this in spades, Pat.

I live down the road from you and it was all I could do NOT to jump in my car and go open a can o'whoop@ss on your waynerd.


My reaction too. I only live 120 miles away. I already had a big can of west Texas whoopa$$ loaded in the truck.

Second reaction, Pat, take care of yourself.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 09:30 PM
"I called her hotel in Midland today and asked for the OM, sure enough they put me through which meens he was there. "

Oh how a WW can lie. Don't answer her calls. Have that plan B letter waiting on the front door before she gets home.

Plan B time has arrived.

Did you talk to the OM?

Did OM have a different room no. then WW?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 09:48 PM
She said she did not know he was there. Of course that's what she said. I am stalking her, interfering with her job and everything else. Unreal, STALKING your wife by calling a hotel that's a 5 hour drive away to see if she is hooking up with the man she's having an affair with!! And she says I'm crazy! Now, she calls again and swears up and down she has not talked to him in a week and he works in the same town, so there is a chance they will be in the same area sometimes. I am about to lose my mind with this women. I moved all my stuff upstairs in the spare bedroom and sent the letter. Calgone take me away!!!
Posted By: bitbucket Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I moved all my stuff upstairs in the spare bedroom and sent the letter.

Move your things back into the master bedroom, and then move all her stuff up to the spare bedroom. Clothes, shoes, cosmetics, everything.

Have you contacted your lawyer? Is that RO still out there or did she get that to go away?
Posted By: RMX Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 11:04 PM
Rooting for ya Pat, if you ever need eyes in the alamo city, I'll do what I can for ya.

RMX
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/16/10 11:35 PM
See an attorney, Pat. Nothing will change unless you change it. Moving into the spare bedroom is not the answer. I thought today might be the day you took back your life.

God's Blessing,

Say
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 01:46 AM
Say: Problem is the funds right now. I put her out (if I could) and what the courts order her to pay would not cover costs until I'm working. Right now this is the best/only solution short of selling the house.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 02:06 AM
I think you could be surprised. Please see an attorney and explore your alternatives before something happens, Patriot. A consultation does not mean that you must go through with anything.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 03:51 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Say: Problem is the funds right now. I put her out (if I could) and what the courts order her to pay would not cover costs until I'm working. Right now this is the best/only solution short of selling the house.

If you D, you'd probably have to sell the house anyway. Maybe this will jolt some reality into your WW. She needs to feel more consequences for her actions before she changes her behavior.
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 05:39 AM
Suitcase on front porch;

FOR SALE BY OWNER sign on front lawn

upon your very WW's return.

Praying for ya Pat.

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 05:41 AM
Quote
She said she did not know he was there


Your WW may be good at other things, but she is a really horrible liar.

All Blessings,
Jerry
Posted By: shinethrough Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 05:50 AM
Quote
She told me she was staying at the airport hotel when in fact she was staying at a hotel she use to meet him at. When I asked her about it she swore up and down she did not see or speak to him. She told me it was none of my buisness and stop checking on her.


I knew this was a lie but didn't want to flush your resolve.

Time to abandon plan A before you have a breakdown.

I read a book once called "Torn Assunder" by David Carder and in it he states, "that unless there is Godly Sorrow on the part of the WS, the chance of reconciliation is zero."

All Blessings,
Jerry

Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 08:50 AM
Hello, Pat

Hope this note finds you well. Still contacting, eh?

With all the drambla in your situation, and the explosive temper- this may be a good situation (very rare) that you and your WW should seperate, it there a friend or family member she can move in with for a few weeks (at least?)
There needs to be a breather from all this discovery/agression/stress/drama/discovery -- especially for your kids.

If you feel 100% certain that she will hold her temper, she should be allowed visit kids, forget what everyone is saying about "witholding" kids, it is wishful thinking, it is not legal, and may only be seen as vengence/punishment on your part tword your wife.(with spin) Talk to a good atty.

Everybody needs to calm down. WW needs to pull her head outa' her &^%$. Keep to the MB principles, (expose, boundries and start a plan B), take the high road. She needs to know the constant lying (whoppers) are not going to buy her any more "time".



Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 11:45 AM
Barbie is giving some really good advice. Having been through three false protection orders and a custody hearing, here's what I have learned:

1. Judges REALLY hate it when a parent withholds ANY type of visitation unless it is ordered by the court. Anyone who tells you otherwise is giving you really bad advice that can backfire BADLY. During my ex's second protection order she filed against me, I did not see the kids for about 30 days. In the judge's custody summary, my exWW was admonished HARSHLY for me not seeing the kids for a month in light of her protection order being dismissed. It contributed to her being found in contempt for interfering with my parental rights.

2. Protection orders have their place but if there is no abuse found and it is dismissed, you can pretty much assure there will be ZERO agreement on any other divorce issues.

A negotiated separation might be the best course of action to prevent your exWW (or you) from doing anyting that would really jeopardize future litigation or employment. Most importantly, you would want negotiated temporary custody orders prior to any separation. Perhaps a good course would be to offer her 60/40 with you primary residential parent as your opening offer. With her travel schedule, she'll need to PROVE that she can take care of the kids as primary so use that to your advantage.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by RMX
Rooting for ya Pat, if you ever need eyes in the alamo city, I'll do what I can for ya.

RMX

Between RMX and me, I'll bet we can arrange for someone to get puked on at Fiesta or the Riverwalk.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 03:35 PM
All great advice...thanks. She is sticking to her story about not knowing. I am going to wait until she gets home so's not to interfere with work and calmly say I want to believe you, but under the circumsatnces I cannot. You want to prove me wrong, pull up your phone records. If there has been no contact, I wont ask again. I wont call the hotels, I'll completly back off. The chances of her letting me see them are about nill. So then I go to Plan B. Hard to do when you live together, but not impossible. She has a court date coming up where I'm suppose to offer a non-prosecutorial letter to the DA. Wonder if I should dangle that carrot for the phone records?? Her having a record is only going to hurt the kids and she knows I don't want that, but she also knows without that letter, there will be no dismissal. What do you think?
Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
You want to prove me wrong, pull up your phone records. If there has been no contact, I wont ask again. I wont call the hotels, I'll completly back off.

This is a HORRIBLE idea! You don't barter with a terrorist and you certainly don't commit to not snooping on her in the future or asking her if she is maintaining NC. You cannot keep that promise!! Why would you even suggest that???

Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
All great advice...thanks. She is sticking to her story about not knowing. I am going to wait until she gets home so's not to interfere with work and calmly say I want to believe you, but under the circumsatnces I cannot. You want to prove me wrong, pull up your phone records. If there has been no contact, I wont ask again. I wont call the hotels, I'll completly back off. The chances of her letting me see them are about nill. So then I go to Plan B. Hard to do when you live together, but not impossible. She has a court date coming up where I'm suppose to offer a non-prosecutorial letter to the DA. Wonder if I should dangle that carrot for the phone records?? Her having a record is only going to hurt the kids and she knows I don't want that, but she also knows without that letter, there will be no dismissal. What do you think?


Dear Pat:
Have you already told her/the defense atty that you were going to write this letter? Then you should stand by your word. Recovery is not a tit-for-tat operation. You are no where near recovery, you can only work on yourself. If you do not want to write the letter don't, but tell her now that you changed your mind and STICK to that option.

This is about clear cut boundries on your part. This is called the high road. You want to stop the crazymaking? Then hold to your promises.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 04:23 PM
Do not barter that.

This woman is lying if she says she didn't know he was there. That's too crazy of a coincidence.

Keep the RO. Let her reap the consequences of her actions. It's not your fault. Use the RO to get her out of the house and pay you CS and alimony while you stay in the house and get back on your feet.

It's not your fault to have her pay for the consequences of her actions. She was the one who was violent enough to warrant an RO. You have evidence of her crazyness through your recording.

She doesn't want to be married or a mom. Fine. Let her move out, support you and the kids, and reap what she has sown.

I honestly don't know why you would want this woman back at all. As a bs, I can never see myself ever tolerating this from anyone ever again.
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 04:25 PM
Absolutely DO NOT negotiate.

Demand the phone records or it's straight to divorce.

Tell her you are willing to financially devistate her since she found it easy to destroy your family.

She has ZERO respecct for you and it's time to snatch it back.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by Pariah
Absolutely DO NOT negotiate.

Demand the phone records or it's straight to divorce.

Tell her you are willing to financially devistate her since she found it easy to destroy your family.

She has ZERO respecct for you and it's time to snatch it back.

I'm totally with P on this.

faint
Posted By: coachswife Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 06:35 PM
Me too.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 06:37 PM
Wow, I feel battered and brused. Your right, I will re-word and offer no promises. I know I will get a shreek and a I'm not going to do it. Fine, then we move ahead in different directions. 2 months of this crap is more than enough. Maybe I can get her to move into her friends home but I doubt it. If not, I'll have to make the best of it for a while.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 06:53 PM
FWIW, I'm really sorry.

I know it hurts.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 07:04 PM
Pat,

Please make an appointment with an attorney so that you are not flying by the seat of your pants.

pray

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 07:07 PM
Patriot (great name, btw),

I really feel for you. I understand how you feel. I can promise you that taking the tough road is something you won't regret. The greatest regret for me was my lack of firmness.

You have an opportunity to take a stand.

But by no means should you mistake our hardline stance on this board as a lack of empathy. If anything, we know all too well how you feel and how hard it really is to do what you need to do. But take our advice as something coming from people who have been in your shoes and have the emotions removed to be able to think clearly and think for you on the actions you should follow.

We know that the advice we give is tough to follow. You've done a good job following it so far. The problem you face the most is fear. Fear will keep you from acting and fear keeps you second guessing.

We've been there.

Keep your chin up. You're doing fine.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 07:07 PM
I also think you and the kids need to get out and do something.

You are in the BEST place in the world for free stuff to do with the kids!

You are the only sane adult in the house right now. For your sanity, please stay active and include those kiddoes in your activities.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Maybe I can get her to move into her friends home but I doubt it.

Pat,

Here's the thing, she isn't going to "get" anything. Her brain is SOOOOOOO bemuddled, so drugged addicted, that the only thing she "gets" is getting to that next high.

YOu can't "make" a wayward understand....

YOu can't "make" a wayward end an affair.....

YOu can't "make" a wayward do ANYTHING!!!!!

The only thing you CAN do it define your boundaries and then defend them with EVERYTHING you got. So far, you really shown ANY hint of boundaries, and what you have stated you've wimped out on. You've had some ace's dealt to you and you aren't even using them to your advantage.

Pack her crap up, put it on the porch, change the locks and let HER figure out what she is going to do with herself.....

not2fun


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 11:29 PM
Well sheeeeeeet!! I saw the phone records on line and no contact for almost 2 weeks. 12 days ago there was a single text message. Maybe they communicated through the computer, but I doubt it. She never lets me near her phone, she sleeps with the crazy thing. So, I don't know if that's 100% proof that she did not lie, but the fact that she gave me the password and what she said....maybe she's not lying?
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/17/10 11:44 PM
She may just have gotten a secret affair phone. Maybe the text was "I got a new number."

As shady as she has been I would not put it past her.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
She may just have gotten a secret affair phone. Maybe the text was "I got a new number."

As shady as she has been I would not put it past her.

If she deleted the text, a SIM card reader with the proper software will be able to pull up that text. If not, you can always search for her new phone. I bet she has a prepaid cell phone she is using.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 01:58 AM
It was her accual on line bill I saw.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 01:59 AM
Patriot,

It isn't unusual for waywards to get another phone since they know theirs is being monitored.

There's plenty of ways to communicate outside of cell phones and the fact that he's at the same hotel is a bit too much of a coincidence.

That one text weeks ago may have been enough to set something else up.

It's not unusual and it wouldn't surprise us to hear she's done any of these things.

Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 09:28 AM
Quote
I called her hotel in Midland today and asked for the OM, sure enough they put me through which meens he was there. So, she has been calling all day and I have ignored it.

So if she wasnt aware of him being there? Why the phone calls? Or is this normal? When I first read this - I took it she knew once again she was caught.

A WW with a legal DV issue hanging would lie as a matter of course. Another $20-30 Go Phone or even communication within the hotel switch would not be difficult/

Just be careful of her gaslighting/
Posted By: Pariah Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 12:00 PM
She definately has a pay as you go phone from Wal Mart.

Put the recorder in her car.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 02:02 PM
>Put the recorder in her car.


Why? If you are going to plan B/D, then why?

You already know she broke NC, and has spent most of the week in (gag, vurp) Midland with the toad.

YOU KNOW THIS...IT'S BEEN VERIFIED BY CALLING THE MOTEL.

Where is the consequence for THAT?
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 02:48 PM
Patriot --

You are being incredibly naive if you really believe she has ended contact.

She is still telling you its none of your business -- which is a big clue is not even CLOSE to recovery or ending her affair.

They are still in contact -- they have just found a new way to do it.

She will swear on your kids lives, swear on her dear dead grandmother etc. AND BE LYING THE WHOLE TIME. (been there. done that.)

You're making a big mistake in giving up the leverage you have right now. Get her out of your house -- legally.

File an EMERGENCY hearing for use of the home and custody of the boys.
Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, I need some of the veterans opinions. I called her hotel in Midland today and asked for the OM, sure enough they put me through which meens he was there. So, she has been calling all day and I have ignored it.

These are your words Pat. So, you are saying that shortly after you called and asked for OM's room your WW starting calling you repeatedly and you did not answer? That alone should tell you that her and OM were talking otherwise how would she know that you attempted to reach him? What caused her to start calling you like crazy?

Look at this objectively. Do you really believe for a second that there was NC? If so, I have this really nice bridge for sale. Interested?

Mindshare


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/18/10 11:39 PM
no, I'm not saying there was no contact, but it was a while back. Really dosen't matter right now anyway. I talked to her today and she was very calm when I asked her to move out for a while....no, you can go if you want. But I have to travel this week, next so on, so why move out. Once again when the converstion came up about OM, she said "no, I am not seeing him but it's none of your business". Okay all, I know what you're think, but until the job sitch is settled, I have to play. I have two interviews tomorrow so I'll see what happens. Once I'm working, papers are filed. She is under the illusion that I'm going to play nice and have joint custody. Her proposal is she travels 10 days on and 10 days home. Having to change dates periodically and this will be okay. What is this women thinking.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 12:09 AM
She's thinking that you are going to let her do whatever she wants to do and frankly, Pat...me too. She has practically layed this in your lap and you still haven't taken your chance. You won't even meet with an attorney to find out your options and plot a strategy.

You keep saying that you have to get a job while I believe that it is possible that you are in a better position to file now as a stay at home dad and while she has these pending charges. You won't know til you talk to an attorney.You can still continue to interview after you change the locks. You are dragging your feet and letting her walk all over you based on your assumptions.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 12:36 AM
I totally agree with Say.

Right now you could file emergency papers and be guaranteed financial support. You have been the stay at home parent.
A judge would guarantee that you have exclusive use of the home (especially with her recent VIOLENCE) and require her to continue supporting you and the boys.

In the meantime, you can continue looking for work.

Stop thinking that you are her financial slave. You do have options if you get moving.

Every day you fail to act, is another day she gains equal status.. Expecially when you HELP her avoid the legal consequences of her actions. Big mistake.

I wish you would use your leverage before you lose it.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
she was very calm when I asked her to move out for a while...
crazy......

Where you expecting a different answer???.... skeptical

Originally Posted by pat
is this women thinking.

"Pat so pathetic.....Pass me some more cake, please...."

Seriously, you need to grow a pair.....this has become a poster child for "How to NOT follow the Plans"....

Again, you have not ONE good excuse for not going into Plan B, but 3 precious reasons why you should.....

Not2fun
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 01:19 AM
Well, c'mon folks! His DD is still only a few weeks ago! Even if he read MB 24/7 your thinking does not change in a few days, weeks or months.

Pat, I think you are doing the best you can under these terrible conditions. But the advice to protect yourself is crutial. Find an atty that gives free initial consults (at the very least!- fer godsake, man) and see what your REAL options are.

jmho
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 02:12 AM
I have spoken with an attorney, I have not retained her. I met her 3 different times and she feels I have a very very good case for primary. Yes, she said filing while I'm home would help in some ways, but the problem is with what the courts order her to pay, we lose the house. Which means the kids suffer. I am trying to hold out for the job so I don't have to move. She cannot afford an attorney and anyway, she knows I have a better case. I just have to ignore her insolence and wait it out a little longer. I know it looks like I left them in the jar over the fireplace, but I do not want the kids to be moved. They are going to have enough trauma from this. My case is solid, so having a job can only help.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 02:53 AM
Like many families with a a SAH parent, your situation is very precarious. I'm not sure if you read my sitch but we ended up coming within 15 days of losing the house to foreclosure. In my case, we had a doublewide and the real house on the property.

My exWW was dead set on me moving out immediately after she asked for the divorce. She was a SAHM too. EVERYONE on both sides told her if that happened we would lose the house. Eveyone told her to have her second cousin move out of the doublewide and one of us live in it until the point in time that she can get her career back on track.

However, once I caught her in bed with her second cousin, she filed a protection order which got me out of the house. At the hearing the next week, she asked for a continuance which delayed things for 6 weeks and I was stuck finding a place to live. I couldn't pay the house, rent at my new place, and child support so I had no other choice but to stop paying the mortgage.

Your situation is very similar to mine and I think you are making the wiser long term decision (i.e thinking post divorce financial standing) by using discretion before using the nuclear option of filing a protection order to get your WW out of the house.
Posted By: britmom Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 02:58 AM
So it is all right to say WS is having affair to kids, mine are 15 and adult, even though this is a negative comment against spouse?
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by britmom
So it is all right to say WS is having affair to kids, mine are 15 and adult, even though this is a negative comment against spouse?

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!

It is not NEGATIVE to speak the truth to your children about what is going on in their life. IF the WS doesn't like it, then they shouldn't be doing it.....

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/19/10 07:29 PM
I hear ya. With her travel schedule and such, she cannot afford to put me out. She would have no one to watch the kids and she can't do her job without me. She puts (or trys) to put me out, she loses her job.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: Wife having an affair - 02/20/10 05:49 AM
Pat,

She'll find a way to make it work. Erase the illusion that she needs you. She'll watch the kids herself or she'll get a sitter.

Or, if she is really dumb, she'll have you watch the kids even when you live apart, which simply strengthens your case.

She can't claim you're a bad parent if you have proof after proof that she leaves the kids with you.

The situation you're in is very abusive to you. You're stuck wondering what she's doing and spying becomes an obsession where you wish you could think of something else, but it's tough to do so.

Reach out to some friends in this tough time.

I think you have a wise approach to getting that job and setting yourself up for separation before you go to Plan B.

She's completely lying to you about seeing this man. The fact that she says, "none of your business" is proof of this. A remorseful WW would not say this.

Just don't go into D expecting that the reality will wake her up. It may or may not.

Make sure that if you file you request that the parmour not be permitted around the children. Put that in any motion you file.

Ask for sole physical and legal (you won't get it, but ask for it) and for CS and alimony.

With a job you can get yourself a daycare, get some government help if it's available based on your income level, and start your new life.

Best of luck.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/21/10 04:35 PM
Last night she was rather direct and she is filling this week. I said go ahead and do what you need to do. She is worried that I will make this a blood bath. She wants "amicable" to which I said it's a little late for that. Do what you need to do and I'll do what I need to do. She has no idea the world of sh*t that she is going to bring. She thinks she can keep the house...wrong. She thinks she can have the kids....wrong. I don't have any idea how she thinks this will all work for her. But, I can't stop her. She was very direct and non ambiguous about it this time. We'll see. I guess it's over, so I can only do what's best for me now. I hate to get into a battle, but I guess I have no choice now. Yuk!
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/21/10 04:51 PM
Pat,

THis woman does not respect you. She thinks she can dictate the terms of your divorce, and manipulate you into being amicable about it.

Would you PLEASE file and get emergency custody and use of the home and put her OUT? Show this woman you have some BALLS...Absolutely do NOT help her weasel out of those domestic violence charges! I hope you haven't already written that letter in her defense....
Posted By: Mulan Re: Wife having an affair - 02/21/10 05:13 PM
Patriot: Every WS wants an amicable, friendly, easy, happy-family divorce that they can feel good about.

Did you see this recent MB thread?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2275600#Post2275600

And please listen to Lexxxy!!!
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 12:23 AM
It will be better if you beat her to the punch of filing and make her feel the hurt of what it will be like if she does pursue divorce. Get her out of the house, get spousal support and child support deducted straight from her paycheck, and knock down her entitlement down a notch. Maybe divorce won't seem like such a good thing anymore.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 01:41 AM
If you do not want a divorce right now, don't talk like you do (want a divorce- not a good time to bluff). Seperate, if that is going to calm the drama. Can you file for a legal seperation/support?

This is still so very, very sudden. I don't want to see this family get railroaded into a no turn back situation before 8 weeks have passed.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 04:53 AM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
If you do not want a divorce right now, don't talk like you do (want a divorce- not a good time to bluff). Seperate, if that is going to calm the drama. Can you file for a legal seperation/support?

This is still so very, very sudden. I don't want to see this family get railroaded into a no turn back situation before 8 weeks have passed.

No legal separation in Texas.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 05:43 PM
It dosen't matter who files first, the courts are going to decide on custody and all. The last two days she has been beyond nice. Saturday she had a good cry and all that when she told me she wanted a divorce and how she could never forgive me for the arrest and alienating her from her family. I don't know what to make of it. This morning she was telling me all the stuff she has to do this week and again no mention of D. I am not going to bring it up, but I don't know what is going on. Is she being nice to keep me from doing something, or has she had a change of heart. I can't figure. She got a notice for her court date this morning and instead of going crazy, she was fine. I'm confused, but I don't want to start the conversation over again. I know you all think I'm crazy, but I don't think there is any contact right now. I think this is more about the past and wher arrest and family. There is nothing she can do that would hurt my chances in court, so I don't feel any urgency to "beat her to the punch". Plus as Barbie says it's only been 7 weeks and a LOT has happened. So yes, I still have my "Balls" and I still have the ability to fight in court.But I have nothing to gain in filing first.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 05:47 PM
Pat,

I sure hope you are right. I would be remiss if I didn't say that I have a bad feeling about this. Your W is having issues and her response to all of this may not be what you expect.

Have you spoken to her parents? If so what do they say? They should be talking to her at this point whether she wants them to or not.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Is she being nice to keep me from doing something

That would be my guess.


Originally Posted by patriot45
She got a notice for her court date this morning and instead of going crazy, she was fine.

Probably because she knows that if she flips out now, it might make it worse for her. She may be also "acting" nice while she plans her next step.

Never underestimate a WW!
Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 05:55 PM
She needs you for the upcoming court date if she wants to get everything dropped. That's why she is going to be nice up until the court date. Your lack of a plan and willingness to sit back and wait and see what she will do is going to be your downfall. You've been warned again and again.
Posted By: rc2009 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
It dosen't matter who files first, the courts are going to decide on custody and all. The last two days she has been beyond nice. Saturday she had a good cry and all that when she told me she wanted a divorce and how she could never forgive me for the arrest and alienating her from her family. I don't know what to make of it. This morning she was telling me all the stuff she has to do this week and again no mention of D. I am not going to bring it up, but I don't know what is going on. Is she being nice to keep me from doing something, or has she had a change of heart. I can't figure. She got a notice for her court date this morning and instead of going crazy, she was fine. I'm confused, but I don't want to start the conversation over again. I know you all think I'm crazy, but I don't think there is any contact right now. I think this is more about the past and wher arrest and family. There is nothing she can do that would hurt my chances in court, so I don't feel any urgency to "beat her to the punch". Plus as Barbie says it's only been 7 weeks and a LOT has happened. So yes, I still have my "Balls" and I still have the ability to fight in court.But I have nothing to gain in filing first.


It's true the courts will ultimately decide. In the meantime... If she were to take the kids and have you served, in Texas she would maintain custody until temporary orders are given in court.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 07:14 PM
Pat: your WW is acting nice because OM is back in her life. I saw this time and again throughout the 5 months WW lived in my house - when there was brief NC with OM, WW was just a general b*#&h. But when contact resumed, everyone was happy (except me).

Now, others may argue differently, and every situation is unique, but I filed first for two reasons: to protect my kids and to gain control.

I'm in CA and when you file for divorce here, it immediately puts the relationship within the jurisdiction of the courts and provides certain protections. For me, the most important was that WW could not remove my children from the state. My lawyer also said that by filing, any attempt to remove the children from their "home base" would be heavily frowned upon by a judge and I could easily get them back.

Secondly, filing first insured that I chose the court to file in and it forced WW to reply, rather than hit me off guard. I don't know about Texas, but in CA, WW will have 30 days (maybe more??) to reply to filing and if she doesn't she is in default, which can be bad for her.

To file or not is your choice, but this is why I did it. And to be honest, the more time I spend away and the closer I get to the final decree, the better I feel. Some women just aren't worth it...my WW is one of them.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 07:25 PM
her parents wont speak to her, not the other way. I know she could put in for temporary custody and all, but agin, the situation is that she needs me for her job. Trust me, she has no intention of filing for primary custody. If she did that, she knows I would beat her over the head (not literaly)hire an attorney and go for custody myself. I really don't have anything to lose right now and it also gives me time to shore up the job sitch. Finding a decent full time job can only help, so if she files later, I have an even better chance if she fights me. I know and appreciate whatyou all are saying and you're right, she could be back with him. Right now that is a secondary problem. Getting my life in order and then doing what's best for the kids is all that really matters right now.
Posted By: indarkness Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 07:50 PM
Just keep in mind that if you do get a job that is out of state, she may file to keep you and the kids around, if she can (not sure if it works that way in TX or not). WW are unpredictable, so best to be prepared for any situation. Good luck.

BTW, some people on this post are giving you a hard time. I think you're doing the absolute best you could do. Stick to the high road and in the end you will come out the best man, no matter what happens.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 08:31 PM
Are you assisting her in avoiding the domestic violence charges?
Are you retracting your story or writing a letter to assist her?


Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 08:38 PM
Yes Lexxxy....he is assisting her. He's in plan doormat....
Posted By: Doormat_No_More Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 08:42 PM
Plan Doormat is no place to be.

Plan A or Plan B, dude. This in-between junk you're embracing is a one-way ticket on the D train. You just don't know where you're getting off.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 09:04 PM
Hello?
For the last time. The domestic charges are no "ace" in the hole. It does not guarentee ANYTHING.

She is going to get her sentancing taken "under advisement"- that means if she completes all her P.O. sessions, and goes to whatever program is directed, her record will be erased.

Pat can help with a letter, but there will be many other character whitnesses, too. She is entitled, and they will be produced. That is the way the system goes.

Now if she had other arrests, assults, DV things it would be different, but this situation alone is not the smoking gun you all think it is.

Namecalling is not going to help him, the truth and a good atty are.

Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 09:24 PM
While it may or may not be the "ace" in the hole, him writting the letter and assisting her in any way to get the charges dismissed is nothing more than telling her what she did was OKAY....... It does nothing more than ENABLE her to do it again.

Only next time Pat may not be her target, it may be one of her kids.....

YOUR advice Barbie, is nothing but fool hearty thinking.....it does Pat a great disservice

And telling Pat that he is in Plan Doormat is not name-calling. It is telling him what he refuses to see........

Not2fun
Posted By: mindshare Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 10:43 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
While it may or may not be the "ace" in the hole, him writting the letter and assisting her in any way to get the charges dismissed is nothing more than telling her what she did was OKAY....... It does nothing more than ENABLE her to do it again.

Only next time Pat may not be her target, it may be one of her kids.....

YOUR advice Barbie, is nothing but fool hearty thinking.....it does Pat a great disservice

And telling Pat that he is in Plan Doormat is not name-calling. It is telling him what he refuses to see........

Not2fun

My thoughts exactly N2F! I think Barbie is a little to close to this situation due to her own arrest. There was no name calling and Pat helping his looney tunes WW get off is plan doormat. Period.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 11:16 PM
Barbie is right. As the charges were pretty minor, it won't be a shoo in for automatic custody. Most states go by the best interest of the kids which are anywhere from 7-14 factors which is a score card. Evidence of domestic violence is but one of the factors. Thus, Patriot's WW would lose on that factor if it went to court. Now, if Patriot's WW was convicted of a felony level offense against Patriot, it would be a slam dunk for him.

Attached is a link to a recent case in the Delaware State Supreme Court where minor DV was at issue. It also gives a good overview of the custody factors.


Delaware State Supreme Court Cases
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 11:17 PM
Oh sure. PLAN doormat is different from saying someone is a doormat. That makes perfect sense, ok.

What I am saying is reality. I still VOULENTEER at the shelter for women in Oakland. (I have a great R.E.B.T. lesson) I have heard many stories, real stories from real women (they keep the men and ladies seperate)on BOTH sides of the DV "fence". First offences usually boil down to the same end results.

This has only been 7 weeks. Pat should set personal boundries and enforce them, he has stated a few times that he does not believe his wife to be a further threat. He has to learn the MB principles and apply them as he feels appropriate.

MS, my arrest was of a totaly different situation. There are many, MANY BS here on this site who have acted out against a WS, thank you.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by PSUBIKER
Barbie is right. As the charges were pretty minor, it won't be a shoo in for automatic custody. Most states go by the best interest of the kids which are anywhere from 7-14 factors which is a score card. Evidence of domestic violence is but one of the factors. Thus, Patriot's WW would lose on that factor if it went to court. Now, if Patriot's WW was convicted of a felony level offense against Patriot, it would be a slam dunk for him.

Attached is a link to a recent case in the Delaware State Supreme Court where minor DV was at issue. It also gives a good overview of the custody factors.


Delaware State Supreme Court Cases

Thank you, PSUB.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/22/10 11:35 PM
There isn't a huge difference in who files first in a divorce. Patriot just needs to keep his antenae up. If his WW starts to make moves to move the kids out, he can file putting an injunction on everything and aggressively get her and the kids back into the jurisdiction.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 01:15 AM
Wow, such a spirited response. I agree with all points (if possible) yes, I am being a doormat, but no, I am not being stupid. Let her wipe her feet until I get to work, then Plan B or D. I have new reasons to believe he is back and I am really not that concerned. 1. Get a job. 2. Put her out. That's it. If I start rocking the boat now, the kids suffer. Keep the peace, let her have her jollys then close this chapter. She has no family support or anything else through this, so the heck with her. What's sad is I am not all that bothered by this anymore. Ya, I wanted it to work out, but the price is getting way to steap. She's not going anywhere or doing anything. She thinks I'm her "doormat" which I kind of am. But as they say, kick a dog enough times, it's eventually going to bite you. She'll get hers in due time.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 01:16 AM
Although the DV charge will not do anything in real impact against your WW's case for custody, your willingness to help her through this sitch speaks VOLUMES.

You have stated in your own words that you have comforted her telling her that you two will get this over with together and then move on. Did she not then try to get YOU arrested???? Did I misunderstand that the ONLY reason that you didn't get arrested was as a direct result of the excellent advice that you received and followed on here? Do you remember posting this on Feb 3rd?
Quote
But THANK YOU ALL I had a recorder on me

Now you are going to choose NOT to listen to the advice given to you and you are going to get yourself where? If you want to know where you will be, I am sure there are many people who can tell you and it is not good.

I believe that there is a FINE line between Plan A and Plan DOORMAT. What side of the line do you think you fall on? Prove that with some examples. There are many examples that the vets can come up with that are sometimes following a Plan Doormat or a NO-Plan Plan.

Seriously, there are many good people on here who are spending some of their time trying to help you. This is free advice and sometimes you get what you paid for, but there are many others on here that are worth way more.

What do you want to do? What is your PLAN? What steps are you taking to meet your objectives? Where do you need help in getting to your objectives? Do you just want YES MEN to tell you that you are great and keep up the good work even if it's not what they truly believe? How will you ever grow as a person? Will you be able to look at your children in 20 years and tell them that you did everything you possibly could to save your marriage to their mother?

I don't remember where I read an article about what happens to children who are raised by single mothers. It was EYE OPENING for sure. I wish my WH had read it. I will give you a brief synopsis of what it said. Boys who are raised in a home by a single parent, being only their mother, are more likely to become drug addicts. They are more likely to be in prison. They are also almost 85% more likely to commit suicide.

Now what about the fact that your WW is in a fog and not thinking clearly about your children or their welfare at all?

GET A PLAN. STICK TO IT. ASK FOR ADVICE IN ACCOMPLISHING YOUR DAILY GOALS.

Good luck.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 02:29 AM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
What I am saying is reality. I still VOULENTEER at the shelter for women in Oakland. (I have a great R.E.B.T. lesson) I have heard many stories, real stories from real women (they keep the men and ladies seperate)on BOTH sides of the DV "fence".

Ok, if this is true, then you should KNOW from experience that this.....

Originally Posted by barbie
he has stated a few times that he does not believe his wife to be a further threat.

is what ALL victims say at one point or another...... crazy

You ADVOCATE that he go forward with his idiotic plan to HELP get these charges reduce. Is this what you advocate to those you are helping when you do your volenteer work??

Further more, this is NOT about using these charges to get a better outcome IF a divorce happens and custody is disputed. It is about holding his wife RESPONSIBLE for her actions. It is NOT responsible to throw crap and break things in a temper tantrum. It is NOT responsible to issue DEATH threats in front of YOUR children. And it is NOT responsible to give this man advice to go ahead and write this letter and drop the charges......I find it quite appauling that this has been even SUGGESTED on here. As if Pat, as a BS, hasn't had enough abuse.

It does not matter if this has only been going on for 7 weeks. It does not matter if he hasn't done a great Plan A.....what MATTERS is doing right by his children and HIS wife....and the RIGHT thing to do is let her face the consequences of her actions....IN THE COURTROOM

Originally Posted by barbie
MS, my arrest was of a totaly different situation. There are many, MANY BS here on this site who have acted out against a WS, thank you. flirt

I was one of those, and I will tell you (AND you will find this in my thread during the time it happened.....) that I was NOT pleased with my actions. I was APPAULED. In fact, I was so EMBARRASSED I called my MIL the next day and APOLOGIZED to her for my actions against her son. Actions that happened when I found my H and OW going into his condo together after 4 1/2 months of severe gaslighting.....I cannot even FATHOM putting passing it off as no big deal, even IF my actions were warrented at the time..... crazy

not2fun
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 12:22 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by barbiecat
What I am saying is reality. I still VOULENTEER at the shelter for women in Oakland. (I have a great R.E.B.T. lesson) I have heard many stories, real stories from real women (they keep the men and ladies seperate)on BOTH sides of the DV "fence".

Ok, if this is true, then you should KNOW from experience that this.....

Originally Posted by barbie
he has stated a few times that he does not believe his wife to be a further threat.

is what ALL victims say at one point or another...... crazy

You ADVOCATE that he go forward with his idiotic plan to HELP get these charges reduce. Is this what you advocate to those you are helping when you do your volenteer work??

Further more, this is NOT about using these charges to get a better outcome IF a divorce happens and custody is disputed. It is about holding his wife RESPONSIBLE for her actions. It is NOT responsible to throw crap and break things in a temper tantrum. It is NOT responsible to issue DEATH threats in front of YOUR children. And it is NOT responsible to give this man advice to go ahead and write this letter and drop the charges......I find it quite appauling that this has been even SUGGESTED on here. As if Pat, as a BS, hasn't had enough abuse.

It does not matter if this has only been going on for 7 weeks. It does not matter if he hasn't done a great Plan A.....what MATTERS is doing right by his children and HIS wife....and the RIGHT thing to do is let her face the consequences of her actions....IN THE COURTROOM

Originally Posted by barbie
MS, my arrest was of a totaly different situation. There are many, MANY BS here on this site who have acted out against a WS, thank you. flirt

I was one of those, and I will tell you (AND you will find this in my thread during the time it happened.....) that I was NOT pleased with my actions. I was APPAULED. In fact, I was so EMBARRASSED I called my MIL the next day and APOLOGIZED to her for my actions against her son. Actions that happened when I found my H and OW going into his condo together after 4 1/2 months of severe gaslighting.....I cannot even FATHOM putting passing it off as no big deal, even IF my actions were warrented at the time..... crazy

not2fun

Why are you so angry? Yes, I help at a shelter. Also have donated children's and my clothes, would you like to see the reciepts?


I am not commenting about how I felt, how I feel about or my reflections/actions about my arrest. For you to assume so is not appropriate. I was posting my very painful experience as a help, and I am not happy with the way it is being thrown back at me. My situation is in my past.

I do not remember advising him to write a letter or not to write a letter. I was just telling the what I know from listening to my mother, who worked as a accountant in a atty firm for over 25 years-- in a very, very small town. Plus my expereince.

If anyone wants to ask me about it, and really wants infomation or help, I will kindly give it. If it is just thrown around to attempt to disgrace or humiliate, well, I have had enough of that.

I am only trying to help Pat. His wife has an arrest. She will be held accountable, unless there is a full dismiss.sp? and that I doubt will happen.
I know DV is a hot button to many people and I apologise if it triggers some. It is Pat's reality now.

Pat needs to set boundries and know what is really going to happen. I have no idea if his wife is going to continue to be abusive or not. I hope she has learned.

Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by barbiecat
What I am saying is reality. I still VOULENTEER at the shelter for women in Oakland. (I have a great R.E.B.T. lesson) I have heard many stories, real stories from real women (they keep the men and ladies seperate)on BOTH sides of the DV "fence".

Ok, if this is true, then you should KNOW from experience that this.....

Originally Posted by barbie
he has stated a few times that he does not believe his wife to be a further threat.

is what ALL victims say at one point or another...... crazy

You ADVOCATE that he go forward with his idiotic plan to HELP get these charges reduce. Is this what you advocate to those you are helping when you do your volenteer work??

Further more, this is NOT about using these charges to get a better outcome IF a divorce happens and custody is disputed. It is about holding his wife RESPONSIBLE for her actions. It is NOT responsible to throw crap and break things in a temper tantrum. It is NOT responsible to issue DEATH threats in front of YOUR children. And it is NOT responsible to give this man advice to go ahead and write this letter and drop the charges......I find it quite appauling that this has been even SUGGESTED on here. As if Pat, as a BS, hasn't had enough abuse.

It does not matter if this has only been going on for 7 weeks. It does not matter if he hasn't done a great Plan A.....what MATTERS is doing right by his children and HIS wife....and the RIGHT thing to do is let her face the consequences of her actions....IN THE COURTROOM

Originally Posted by barbie
MS, my arrest was of a totaly different situation. There are many, MANY BS here on this site who have acted out against a WS, thank you. flirt

I was one of those, and I will tell you (AND you will find this in my thread during the time it happened.....) that I was NOT pleased with my actions. I was APPAULED. In fact, I was so EMBARRASSED I called my MIL the next day and APOLOGIZED to her for my actions against her son. Actions that happened when I found my H and OW going into his condo together after 4 1/2 months of severe gaslighting.....I cannot even FATHOM putting passing it off as no big deal, even IF my actions were warrented at the time..... crazy

not2fun

I do not counsel any person. I lead a positive discussion, and give general support that's about it.

Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by barbiecat
What I am saying is reality. I still VOULENTEER at the shelter for women in Oakland. (I have a great R.E.B.T. lesson) I have heard many stories, real stories from real women (they keep the men and ladies seperate)on BOTH sides of the DV "fence".

Ok, if this is true, then you should KNOW from experience that this.....

Originally Posted by barbie
he has stated a few times that he does not believe his wife to be a further threat.

is what ALL victims say at one point or another...... crazy

You ADVOCATE that he go forward with his idiotic plan to HELP get these charges reduce. Is this what you advocate to those you are helping when you do your volenteer work??

Further more, this is NOT about using these charges to get a better outcome IF a divorce happens and custody is disputed. It is about holding his wife RESPONSIBLE for her actions. It is NOT responsible to throw crap and break things in a temper tantrum. It is NOT responsible to issue DEATH threats in front of YOUR children. And it is NOT responsible to give this man advice to go ahead and write this letter and drop the charges......I find it quite appauling that this has been even SUGGESTED on here. As if Pat, as a BS, hasn't had enough abuse.

It does not matter if this has only been going on for 7 weeks. It does not matter if he hasn't done a great Plan A.....what MATTERS is doing right by his children and HIS wife....and the RIGHT thing to do is let her face the consequences of her actions....IN THE COURTROOM

Originally Posted by barbie
MS, my arrest was of a totaly different situation. There are many, MANY BS here on this site who have acted out against a WS, thank you. flirt

I was one of those, and I will tell you (AND you will find this in my thread during the time it happened.....) that I was NOT pleased with my actions. I was APPAULED. In fact, I was so EMBARRASSED I called my MIL the next day and APOLOGIZED to her for my actions against her son. Actions that happened when I found my H and OW going into his condo together after 4 1/2 months of severe gaslighting.....I cannot even FATHOM putting passing it off as no big deal, even IF my actions were warrented at the time..... crazy

not2fun

I am sorry, I do not know how to consolidate this better. I never said he should or should not write the letter. I told him to expect it. I also said he should stick with his descison, and not try to use the letter as a barganing tool for other things. I clearly stated that if he was going to not write the letter, if this was a different descision from his first, that he should tell his wife right away, and stick to THAT descision.

Sorry this is long. Know what? I am here to help and follow MB principles for myself.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 01:06 PM
pray
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by indarkness
Just keep in mind that if you do get a job that is out of state, she may file to keep you and the kids around, if she can (not sure if it works that way in TX or not).

Most wording in Texas says that you have to reside in the county or a contiguous county when filing for joint custody.



Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 02:45 PM
Yes, you are right, but whoever has primary can pretty much do what they want unless the courts order a geographical restriction which seldom happens. At least I know why she's been so nice lately, she's got het booty call back. As far as joint custody, that is what she wants, not what is in the best interest of the kids. As for all of you worried that I am helping her with a letter in regards to her arrest....what good would it do anyone for her to have a record and lose her job? Ya, a big part of me wants to stick the knife in and twist, but that only hurts the kids. She'll have her own hell coming very soon, which will be her own doing. The fact that she is seeing him again and thinking I will be somehow amicable shows how dimented she has become. Of course she dosen'tknow that I know. I am not going to do anything that will hurt her at work, but I'm going to fight for ME and the kids.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Yes, you are right, but whoever has primary can pretty much do what they want unless the courts order a geographical restriction which seldom happens. At least I know why she's been so nice lately, she's got het booty call back. As far as joint custody, that is what she wants, not what is in the best interest of the kids. As for all of you worried that I am helping her with a letter in regards to her arrest....what good would it do anyone for her to have a record and lose her job? Ya, a big part of me wants to stick the knife in and twist, but that only hurts the kids. She'll have her own hell coming very soon, which will be her own doing. The fact that she is seeing him again and thinking I will be somehow amicable shows how dimented she has become. Of course she dosen'tknow that I know. I am not going to do anything that will hurt her at work, but I'm going to fight for ME and the kids.

Absent anything major, you will have joint custody. Joint Custody is a legal term used to say both parents have equal legal rights to make decisions for the kids. Visitation is another ball of wax - in your case, you would have Joint Custody with primary residency with you. If you go 50/50, most states state it as shared. Sole Custody only means that one parent can make legal decisions for the kids but the other parent would have visitation rights absent any other issues.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 04:20 PM
Pat - Know that RMX offered a set of eyes in the alamo city - there are other eyes here in the dfw as well - just so ya know.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 04:33 PM
"The fact that she is seeing him again and thinking I will be somehow amicable shows how dimented she has become."

Know you are demented. WW is back to banging the OM and you want to write the letter so she beats the charges against her. Making it easier for WW to fight you for custody.

And you are worried that WW will get fired if you don't.

Getting fired is the best thing to happen. Why do you want WW to keep a job that lets her keep banging the OM?

Demented, denial, delusional��
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 04:58 PM
Maybe you don't understand my point. Right now her being with the OM is not my main concern. She loses her job, we lose everything. My kids and I are what is important. She can play her little games and continue down her road of self destruction, that's her choice. But how selfish would it be for me to have her lose her job because she's "banging another guy". Time to move forward. I am fighting for me and my kids..PERIOD. She and her lacivious behaviour are secondary.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 04:58 PM
Might take you up on the DFW one next week.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Maybe you don't understand my point. Right now her being with the OM is not my main concern. She loses her job, we lose everything. My kids and I are what is important. She can play her little games and continue down her road of self destruction, that's her choice. But how selfish would it be for me to have her lose her job because she's "banging another guy". Time to move forward. I am fighting for me and my kids..PERIOD. She and her lacivious behaviour are secondary.

You get divorced you and your children lose everything. She gets fired, you fall on temporary hardship. Big difference. If you had given up on your marriage and were fighting for your kids, you would have put her out of the house when you had a chance and filed. You halfway plan at both is going to lose your marriage and sole custody of your kids.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 05:06 PM
My hope for you is that you don't look back on this time and say, "WHAT IF?"

Good Luck to you Pat.

I hope your KIDS get the lives they deserve.

Take care.
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Might take you up on the DFW one next week.

really? Why? You know she's screwing OM yet you have accepted it and choose to do nothing about it.

F her job. There is no way you should write a letter to get her charges dismissed.
Posted By: Dealan-de Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 05:40 PM
>but whoever has primary can pretty much do what they want unless the courts order a geographical restriction which seldom happens

Who told you that?

In Texas, you have to petition to get the GR LIFTED.

Livin' it right now.

The GR IS the county of residence and it's contigious counties...if you want to move outside that, you've got to petition to get it waived (unless your attorney pulls a sneaky and your WW signs it w/out reading it).

Right now, we're toying with the idea of moving to the DFW area, so we're petitioning to have the GR lifted since a$$mom rarely exercises visitation and even more rarely pays her CS. We might not get it, tho, since once in a blue moon she'll pick the kids up.

(grrr)
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 07:44 PM
Pat

Maybe I missed it but has there been more evidence found? After the hotel/hangup thing?

Yeah, I know that is pretty damning.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 08:00 PM
"Maybe you don't understand my point. Right now her being with the OM is not my main concern"

This means that you don't care if your WW leaves you for the OM. Then she should. Because you only view your WW as a meal ticket.

New jobs can be found. Credit restored. New homes and cars bought.

Can't buy a wife, well at least not a good one, can't by a family for your kids.

Glad to see you have your priorities straight.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 08:11 PM
One of my convos with POSOW I told her that I would go to their work and talk to her if she wouldn't meet with me. Her response was, "But then we would both get fired." My response, "I don't care if you both get fired. I would live under a bridge in a cardboard box, as long as I was with my family and we were happy."

I wouldn't literally live under a cardboard box but I wanted to make my point that I could not be bought.

She also once said, "If I won the lottery I would give you anything you wanted." My response was, "All I want is for you to stay away from my Husband." She did for 3 days, but then it was hot and heavy again.

Money and things isn't everything. You will still be able to do something. That's why you need to have a PLAN because flying by the seat of your pants is CRAZY MAKING.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 08:27 PM
Every BS has a right to choose not to R his M. If that is Pat's choice, I support him wholeheartedly and if he is making decisions on what will be best for him and his boys based on that choice, more power to him. His BW has been heartless, cruel and totally nonresponsive. Perhaps D will turn her around. Perhaps not but Patriot has earned the right to drive his own bus at this point. Ladylong legs has chosen a similiar path, self preservation.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 08:35 PM
What is he teaching his kids? You have to accept abuse and infidelity if you need the money? How to not stand up for what is right? His actions are nowhere near Ladylonglegs. She has a backbone and didn't take any bs from her WH. Pat is looking for any excuse to NOT take action.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 08:43 PM
Well, at the end of the day we have to live with our choices and the consequences of acting/not acting.

I came here like most everyone else, clueless, scared, hurt, angry and not knowing what to do. I got lots of good advice (and some not so good) but ultimately I did what seemed to be the right things.

Even today, with WW gone and in pitch black for six weeks, I have my moments of doubt. But all in all, I can hold up my head and realize that I'm getting through it with the help of the people here on MB!

No two circumstances are the same, and it's beyond me to guess which marriage could have been saved and which one not due to the failure to heed the advice.

For me, the simple fact is that there was a place to turn to for advice! I can't say that I followed everything to a "T," but it certainly helped me a whole lot more than if I'd never found this place and stumbled headlong into the insane asylum.

Urge, prod and cite as much as you/we can. Ultimately, though, the decision on how to proceed is left up to us. And we have to live with those choices.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/23/10 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
As for all of you worried that I am helping her with a letter in regards to her arrest....what good would it do anyone for her to have a record and lose her job?

Who said she would lose her job? Did her boss tell you this? Company CEO?....I betcha it came from WW, who as we all know, LIES. Yes, she could lose her job, but then again, she might not. MAYBE, she should have thought about that before her temper tantrum. Maybe she should have thought about that before boinking the OM. BUT since she didn't, her current plan of making YOU the bad guy, the guilty party, and bullying you into helping her get out of the charges is working wonders. What's worse is you LET her do it!!!!....I just don't get this Pat. She is big girl. She is not going to view you as a hero for coming to her defense, not on this one. The only thing she will learn is that she can bully and manipulate you inot her bidding.


Originally Posted by pat
Ya, a big part of me wants to stick the knife in and twist, but that only hurts the kids.

This is NOT about revenge. It is doing what is RIGHT by her. AND you kids. How is this going to hurt your kids???...If you ask me, you are hurting them MORE by letting them witness that there are no consequences for bad behavior. God help you when they become teens......you are going to need it.

You know what else is bad for kids? DIVORCE. Here's some interesting facts on studies done on the effects of divorce on children....


Originally Posted by hope3343
18 Shocking Statistics About
Children and Divorce


These days most people accept divorce as a way of life, completely unaware of the damage they are doing to their children. Tell your friends, acquaintances and co-workers to read these shocking statistics about divorce and children. It may help save a child�s life down the road. (And no, I�m not figuratively speaking either�.just keep reading to find out what I mean.)

Statistics about Children and Divorce


1. Half of all American children will witness the breakup of a parent�s marriage. Of these, close to half will also see the breakup of a parent�s second marriage.� (Furstenberg, Peterson, Nord, and Zill, �Life Course�)

2. Among the millions of children who have seen their parents divorce, one of every 10 will also live through three or more parental marriage breakups. (The Abolition of Marriage, Gallagher)

3. Forty percent of children growing up in America today are being raised without their fathers. (Wade, Horn and Busy, �Fathers, Marriage and Welfare Reform� Hudson Institute Executive Briefing, 1997)

4. Of all children born to married parents this year, fifty percent will experience the divorce of their parents before they reach their 18th birthday. (Fagan, Fitzgerald, Rector, �The Effects of Divorce On America)

The EMOTIONALLY Damaging Statistics about children and divorce

5. Studies in the early 1980�s showed that children in repeat divorces earned lower grades and their peers rated them as less pleasant to be around. (Andrew J. Cherlin, Marriage, Divorce, Remarriage �Harvard University Press 1981)

6. Teenagers in single-parent families and in blended families are three times more likely to need psychological help within a given year. (Peter Hill �Recent Advances in Selected Aspects of Adolescent Development� Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 1993)

7. Compared to children from homes disrupted by death, children from divorced homes have more psychological problems. (Robert E. Emery, Marriage, Divorce and Children�s Adjustment� Sage Publications, 1988)

These statistics about children and divorce are pretty shocking, aren�t they?

The DEATH of a parent is LESS devastating to a child than a DIVORCE. (Even I wouldn�t believe this if I didn�t see the statistic myself.)

The PHYSICALLY Damaging Statistics About Children and Divorce


8. Children of divorce are at a greater risk to experience injury, asthma, headaches and speech defects than children whose parents have remained married. (Dawson, �Family Structure and Children�s Health and Well Being� National Health Interview Survey on Child Health, Journal of Marriage and the Family)

9. Following divorce, children are fifty percent more likely to develop health problems than two parent families. (Angel, Worobey, �Single Motherhood and Children�s Health�)

10. Children living with both biological parents are 20 to 35 percent more physically healthy than children from broken homes. (Dawson, �Family Structure and Children�s Health and Well-being� Journal of Marriage and the Family)

11. Most victims of child molestation come from single-parent households or are the children of drug ring members. (Los Angles Times 16 September 1985 The Garbage Generation)

12. A Child in a female-headed home is 10 times more likely to be beaten or murdered. (The Legal Beagle, July 1984, from �The Garbage Generation�)

This is what I mean when I said �these statistics on divorce and children could save a child�s life someday.� Did you read #12? A child raised by his/her mother is 10 times more likely to be beaten or murdered.

The Long Term Effects and Statistics About Children and Divorce

13. A study of children six years after a parental marriage breakup revealed that even after all that time, these children tended to be �lonely, unhappy, anxious and insecure. (Wallerstein �The Long-Term Effects of Divorce on Children� Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 1991)

14. Seventy percent of long-term prison inmates grew up in broken homes. (Horn, Bush, �Fathers, Marriage and Welfare Reform)

Problems Relating to Peers

15. Children of divorce are four times more likely to report problems with peers and friends than children whose parents have kept their marriages intact. (Tysse, Burnett, �Moral Dilemmas of Early Adolescents of Divorced and Intact Families. Journal of Early Adolescence 1993)

16. Children of divorce, particularly boys, tend to be more aggressive toward others than those children whose parents did not divorce. (Emery, �Marriage, Divorce and Children�s Adjustment, 1988)

Suicide Statistics About Children and Divorce

17. People who come from broken homes are almost twice as likely to attempt suicide than those who do not come from broken homes. (Velez-Cohen, �Suicidal Behavior and Ideation in a Community Sample of Children� Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 1988)

High School Drop Out Statistics About Children and Divorce

18. Children of divorced parents are roughly two times more likely to drop out of high school than their peers who benefit from living with parents who did not divorce. (McLanahan, Sandefur, �Growing Up With a Single Parent: What Hurts, What Helps� Harvard University Press 1994)
I can�t stress how important it is to know all the facts before you get a divorce. Your child�s life is in your hands. If you�re seriously considering divorce and you haven�t attempted to save your marriage , I�ve just given you 18 reasons why it�s at least worth a try to keep your family together.

Does that shake you up any?.....I'm being tough for a reason Pat. Because I care. I understand about being in Plan C (confusion...). I understand about WS being mean, spiteful, and a bully to get their way. I've been through ALL of that. And it sucks. The time that I was most strong and PROUD of myself was the times I stuck to the my PLANS. The empowered me. I HATED feeling helpless and victimized. I HATED the self-doubt and lack of confidence. BUT when I followed my PLANS, all of that SOARED. Even in the face of adversity. Being in the place you are in does NOT serve yourself well.....and it makes very sad for you....

Originally Posted by pat
She'll have her own hell coming very soon, which will be her own doing. The fact that she is seeing him again and thinking I will be somehow amicable shows how dimented she has become.

She is not demented, she is going by what YOU are telling and showing her. It might be false, but it is the IMPRESSION you are giving off.....your FEAR of the unknown, her not having a job and being broke is very evident on here, so it has to be showing through at home.

Originally Posted by pat
I am not going to do anything that will hurt her at work, but I'm going to fight for ME and the kids.

HOW are you going to do this?? What is your PLAN Pat? It all sounds good, but unless you have SPECIFIC Plans that you are going to follow, then it is all talk.....

not2fun


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:37 AM
Okay, maybe it was an overstatement to say it's secondary. I realize it is time for plan B, but how to do that when you live together is hard to figure out how to manage that. of course I want to save my marriage or else I wouldn't be posting so much. Ya, I understand the perseption of me being week and not having a plan, but I do have limits on what I will do. I find it hard to understand how her losing her job is a good thing. Isn't that vendictive and spitefull? Ya, she will have to pay for what she's done, but I'm not going to destroy her. For me, that is to much. I will fight for my rights and those of my kids, but not at any cost.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:46 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, maybe it was an overstatement to say it's secondary. I realize it is time for plan B, but how to do that when you live together is hard to figure out how to manage that. of course I want to save my marriage or else I wouldn't be posting so much. Ya, I understand the perseption of me being week and not having a plan, but I do have limits on what I will do. I find it hard to understand how her losing her job is a good thing. Isn't that vendictive and spitefull? Ya, she will have to pay for what she's done, but I'm not going to destroy her. For me, that is to much. I will fight for my rights and those of my kids, but not at any cost.

1) Getting her out of the house for plan B would have been easy if you wouldn't have let her back in after the arrest.

2) Losing her job is a good thing if that job is making her travel to where OM lives and is her only reason she would ever see him again. Again, you are firing her, so how can that be vindictive on your part. She would be the one getting herself fired, not you. Your goal is to not shelter her from the consequences of her affair. If some behavior has bad consequences, you are less likely to continue that behavior. If there are no consequences for continuing her affair, there is no reason for her to stop it.

Trust us, all this stuff she'll get over, as long as she isn't under the addiction of her affair.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:49 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
, I understand the perseption of me being week and not having a plan, but I do have limits on what I will do.

Pat,

What exactly does this mean?........if you aren't willing to follow Plan A or Plan B, there isn't much we can do to help..... In terms of saving your marriage that is....
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 11:46 AM
It means I will not get her fired from her job. To me that is being vendictive and I wont do that. At this point, wouldn't it be best to file? Since I can't do a plan B, isn't this the only other option to make her aware of the consequences?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 12:06 PM
You are not willing to fight for WW.

You are not willing to use every tool to end the affair.

You rather justify that WW keeps banging the OM.

You rather WW supports you financially, so if the the OM has to bang your WW then the OM has to bang your WW.

This is what your actions and your logic is saying.

So being that you won't stop this affair, either file for divorce, or tell your WW as she steps out, to drive safe, have a good time and don't worry about when you get home.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 12:08 PM
And when your WW gets knocked up who gets to input the OC's name?

WW and you, or WW and the OM?

I say all three so there is a built in tie breaker this way.
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I will fight for my rights and those of my kids, but not at any cost.

So when exactly will you stop fighting for your kids?

Do they know?
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 01:46 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, maybe it was an overstatement to say it's secondary. I realize it is time for plan B, but how to do that when you live together is hard to figure out how to manage that. of course I want to save my marriage or else I wouldn't be posting so much. Ya, I understand the perseption of me being week and not having a plan, but I do have limits on what I will do. I find it hard to understand how her losing her job is a good thing. Isn't that vendictive and spitefull? Ya, she will have to pay for what she's done, but I'm not going to destroy her. For me, that is to much. I will fight for my rights and those of my kids, but not at any cost.

I have decided not post here anymore, but I think it is important to listen to what PAT says he wants.

IMHHO:
If we are all here to tally and keep score of peoples "SINS", I believe almost every BS should divorce their cheating, lying, angry, stealing, destructive and deceptive spouse.
Go ahead, judge, jury and sentance away. The book says it is O.K.
But that is not MB. No, not every marriage should be saved. I could not agree more. That descision can only be made by the TWO people in the relationship.

Good Luck to you; I hope your WW pulls her head outa her &%$#$>
---the lowly Barbiecat.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:11 PM
Okay, so what do you suggest without the insults?
Posted By: atena Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:17 PM
Patriot, the first questions you should ask yourself is if you want to save your M. You have every right to want out.
This is MB, not "save your marriage at all costs".
If you decide to save it, then you need to take action and if that involves having her fired from her job, then it is a necessary step if you want to R your M.
Again, you can go on plan B and then later on to plan D...or to plan D right away.
You are the boss.
blessing
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:43 PM
Pat --

I'm a former wayward. So I have a unique understanding of how very manipulative and conniving this breed of person can be.
I clearly remember the tactics I pulled trying to get my way.

I had a situation that very closely resembles yours. I was the primary breadwinner. I had the big career with lots of traveling. And I remember what an utter lack of respect and anger I had towards my (now X) husband.

I assumed that you wanted to save your marriage. Thats why I posted the advice that I did. Because with a woman...she cannot love a man she doesn't respect. And until you turn the tables on her and earn some respect -- you don't have a chance of saving this marriage.

It sounds like you are now just in survival mode. Play nice, get your things in order, then file for divorce. So if that's your plan, I don't have any criticism for it. Its certainly a reasonable plan.

I think the crowd here just needs to realize that you're not trying to follow a marriage-builder plan, nor are you trying to save the marriage. Then you won't get folks so upset by not following advice.

I definetly think you can accomplish an amicable divorce. Like you said, her lifestyle requires the other parent to be more stable. I think you will find her very accomodating towards custody etc. You will easily be able to have shared custody, probably 50-50 at minimum. And you will also likely be able to avoid child support and all the hassle that goes along with that -- if you are both working and providing for the kids.

If you do every other week -- she should be able to fit all of her work travel and spending time with her boyfriend into her "off-week". And it will give you some downtime to start building your own life. Too bad for the kids...
But kids are resiliant, right? They'll adjust...


Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, so what do you suggest without the insults?

If your WW doesn't get another job, you won't recover your marriage. Having a cheating spouse that travels all the time will not allow you to connect and will give her the ability to start affairs any time she so feels inclined to get her needs met outside the marriage. If you were fighting for the marriage your boundaries should be NC w/ OM and actively searching for another job where she doesn't travel. If she refused and you still wanted to save your marriage, you would have exposed her to the consequences of her actions, i.e. exposing to everyone that knowledge of the affair would have negative impact on the affair, and not bailing her out of jail and the consequences. If you wanted a divorce, you should have put her out of the house. You have traveled the non-committal middle road, and that road is going to get you absolutely nothing that you want in the end. If you want to save your marriage, or if you want a favorable divorce, you plan is the worst possible way of accomplishing it.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:53 PM
I am not being very clear. I DO want to save my marriage, but with my unique situation, I'm not sure how to force the issue without filling for D.
Posted By: MaiMai Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 02:54 PM
The BS should never take it lying down (that's what WS's are for).
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I am not being very clear. I DO want to save my marriage, but with my unique situation, I'm not sure how to force the issue without filling for D.

Your situation is not unique. However, you are in a much better position than most BHs that show up here. You actually have the upper hand, but refuse to use it. Trust us, there are many stay-at-home moms that expose to their husband's employer, letting the chips fall where they may. There have been many WHs fired from their jobs that get back with their BWs. Your situation is not unique, but maybe just switched around. The advice is the same.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 03:02 PM
Then let her sink or swim on this DV/job situation. I reall thought that you had given up on the M. Your actions and your lack of a definate plan show that.

If you want to R your M why would you want to assist her in dodging the consequences of her own actions and remaining in a job where she travels much and is able to continue her A?

Maybe she should lose her job and you should get one.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I'm not sure how to force the issue without filling for D.

EXPOSURE

CONSEQUENCES

The same thing any other BS uses to fight the affair.

To save your marriage, you need to kill the affair. What will kill the affair. Your exposure on OM's side made him go nuclear last time. Why haven't you done this again. If this is all going on where she travels for work, why don't you ask her work, not to have her travel to that location? There are ways of ending contact. Your WW is more likely to leave you if she continues her affair than if she loses her job. That stats back it up. Your WW is NOT going to leave you without another man lined up. I don't think she'll leave you period. You are going to be the one that is eventually fed up with her and leaves. OR you could just put your foot down and not accept her behavior.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 03:05 PM
If you really mean that.

Call Steve Harley. Get a plan. Follow it to the letter.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 03:13 PM
Pat,

The reason nobody is telling you how to Plan B while living in the same house is because it doesn't work. We've had come here and try that......and failed (anyone remember Eyeofthestorm???....). It goes against what Plan B is, which is complete and total darkness.

You seem to think there aren't any other options but there are ALWAYS options. Sometimes one option is better than the other and sometimes BOTH options suck.

To me it seems that you are basing your decsion on what will be less painful for you, HOWEVER, what you don't know (what we have seen happen on here) is that when you chose the less painful one ( Plan C....) is that it does come with a hefty personal price......your SELF-RESPECT......

I truly do feel for you.....I remember all too well being paralyzied by the fear. Once I conquered that though, NOTHING was impossible...including saving my marriage

not2fun
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by Dealan-de
>but whoever has primary can pretty much do what they want unless the courts order a geographical restriction which seldom happens

Who told you that?

In Texas, you have to petition to get the GR LIFTED.

Livin' it right now.

The GR IS the county of residence and it's contigious counties...if you want to move outside that, you've got to petition to get it waived (unless your attorney pulls a sneaky and your WW signs it w/out reading it).

Right now, we're toying with the idea of moving to the DFW area, so we're petitioning to have the GR lifted since a$$mom rarely exercises visitation and even more rarely pays her CS. We might not get it, tho, since once in a blue moon she'll pick the kids up.

(grrr)


Is the reason for being hesitant on filing? Austin area is not your home so filing could require you to stay in the area for the foreseeable future.

I dont understand the BH bashing - Pat has done the exposure and even had wife arrested in a far shorter and effective time line than most BH.

His WW is still in the middle of the affair and it will not end any time soon but it will end eventually.

How about listing some solutions knowing what his boundaries are and understanding that Texas does not recognise legal separation as a marriage status.


Here is what he asked:

" I realize it is time for plan B, but how to do that when you live together is hard to figure out how to manage that. of course I want to save my marriage or else I wouldn't be posting so much. "

What can he do to get a Plan B executed? How can he get her to move out?

Pat - have you thought of calling Harley's for some advice? They could find a way to execute a modified plan in your circumstance and will provide some insight of what her mind set is currently.
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:30 PM
had a restraining order and blew it. He is now working with active ww to have the charges dismissed. WTF???

He should probably file for D and get temp orders moving her out of the house with the understanding he can delay the D for a long time if he desires.
Posted By: Lostin2008 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:34 PM
Pat - no path you choose will be easy. Don't expect that. D will not be easy. Plan B will not be easy. However any plan is better than sitting by watching your wife screwing OM.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:42 PM
Okay, so is the suggestion I file and show her I mean business? I can't do a Plan B and you're right, this is not working and I don't want to continue like this.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 04:53 PM
Always the cart before the horse with you.

You must expose fully, including work.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay, so is the suggestion I file and show her I mean business? I can't do a Plan B and you're right, this is not working and I don't want to continue like this.

I'm formulating something BUT first I need you to answer this (I've asked it twice already).....

If you follow through with the charges, how do you KNOW she will be fired? Where did you get that information, and have you talked to HR to confirm this is a guarentee?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 05:27 PM
Forget plan B and filing, for now.

Do a full exposure and let it work to kill the affair. Once the affair is dead you have your WW where you want her. Staying at home married to you. Besides this gives you time to plan A a little bit more.

Then the recovery process can be started. Better to start recovery living together rather apart.

Stop that letter to allow WW beat the charges.

I think thats enough for you to do.


Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 05:41 PM
I read her companies rules of conduct and the clause she had to sign states that any conviction needs to be reported. A dismissal does not.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/24/10 05:45 PM
Cant answer for her employment but at my work we have to sign a Code of Business Conduct each year and it states any arrest of any kind is grounds for termination. I believe this is a common practice - her charge is also a "violent" crime so I can imagine that carries more weight as well.

There is no guarantee that her HR wont find out until it is dismissed and the arrest is expunged anyway. Two different processes.

If you file, on grounds of adultery - temp orders can hold you until you find employment but I would guess that you will tied to the Austin area for employment opportunities

Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/25/10 07:57 PM
What's your plan?
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Wife having an affair - 02/25/10 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
What's your plan?
I think you have this backwards, Pat. We've been asking you this question for a while.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/25/10 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
What's your plan?

NUCLEAR EXPOSURE - kill the affair.

It's just like dropping the atom bomb. Sure, there was collateral damage, but it ended the war. You have a chance to completely blow up the affair for good.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 12:59 AM
"conviction needs to be reported. A dismissal does not."

When you write the letter there won't be a conviction.

Keep proping up WW's affair.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 01:02 AM
"NUCLEAR EXPOSURE - kill the affair."

No, no, no, this plan will never do.

Pat will never do anything to end this affair. This is why exposure is unacceptable. Pat does not want anything that will work.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 03:38 AM
But careful, TheRoad. If you tell him he's doing it wrong he's going to tell you to get lost.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 04:23 AM
Okay all I get it. I am talking to Haley tomorrow, I'll see what he says.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 07:50 AM
Give Harley a call too..

Grats Pat
Posted By: ImStaying Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by SortedSomeOut
Give Harley a call too..
rotflmao
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 01:09 PM
You all too funny!
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 01:14 PM
I did expose to all his freinds and family. Her family wont talk to her and her "friends" are now thinking I'm some sort of crazy stalker. Not that I give a sh@t what they think, but now she can talk to them about it. Before you say it, I agree, not much of a friend if they don't abmonish her for her behaviour, but they are helping to enforce it by saying "do what's best for you" or what your heart is saying. And no, I am not taking her word on it, I see and hear the conversations. Before, she wasn't talking to anyine. Now, she is on the phone all the time with them. Not sure if exposure got the results I wanted. Anyway I talk to Harley today, maybe he has some ideas because I don't.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 01:46 PM
Ah she figured out some spin for her buddies, all about how "silence of the lambs" smart and crazy you are. You will eventually have to laugh at this crap Pat so just don't take it to serious.

We all hope your WW will see how foolish she is acting too.

Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 02:51 PM
Pat -

Let us know what transpires during your session. Still learning this stuff as well and certainly not an expert.

Hang in there
Posted By: Miss M Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 03:05 PM
Okay all I get it. I am talking to Haley tomorrow, I'll see what he says.

We all know you meant Harley.

That being said, this is the best thing for you to do. I've thought this for awhile now.

Go Pat! hurray

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
I did expose to all his freinds and family. Her family wont talk to her and her "friends" are now thinking I'm some sort of crazy stalker. Not that I give a sh@t what they think, but now she can talk to them about it. Before you say it, I agree, not much of a friend if they don't abmonish her for her behaviour, but they are helping to enforce it by saying "do what's best for you" or what your heart is saying. And no, I am not taking her word on it, I see and hear the conversations. Before, she wasn't talking to anyine. Now, she is on the phone all the time with them. Not sure if exposure got the results I wanted. Anyway I talk to Harley today, maybe he has some ideas because I don't.

If you know he spent some time with your WW last week in Midland, then it is time for a re-exposure. He flipped the last time, he'll flip again. Everytime he makes contact, make life hell for him. That is your best bet because you aren't withdrawing love units from your WW by exposing to his side and making him feel the consequences, and he starts love busting your WW. Make OM's life hell until he leaves your WW alone.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay all I get it. I am talking to Haley tomorrow, I'll see what he says.

(((((Pat)))))),

Ok, I'm back. I'm sorry for not getting here sooner, but I had some personal emergencies to attend to.

This is HONESTLY the very BEST THING you can do. All of us here can tell you what you think, guide you with the principles that the Harley's outline, but really getting the word from the horse's mouth is really the way to go. They are the professionals after all....

Who are you talking to, Steve or Jennifer?.....Jennifer may end up being the better option for your wife, but I truly think Steve will be more helpful for YOU at this point.

I know you have stated that you want to save your marriage (I never actually doubted you had changed your mind...so I was never confused on this part.....), but what do YOU want in the marriage?......what is it you would like to see accomplished through all of this???

What I mean, is you are going to have to define your OWN boundaries. THIS was the turning point for me in Plan A. When I finally wrote down what it was I wanted, what I would tolerate and what I wouldn't, then it became very easy for me to defend these boundaries. See, I had gotten to a point that I was not a "marriage-at-all-costs" kinda girl. Of course, things WERE a bit different for me. My H had moved out after Dday. The problem was he wanted to come back home, but not wanting to do the work to rebuild our M (INCLUDING getting rid of OW...). I knew for me that that wasn't an option. Besides, after the inital shock of him leaving wore off, the kids and I found we doing OKAY. Didn't mean we still hated what was happening or that we didn't want him home, but that if he didn't come back, we WOULD survive. And that was the BIGGEST wake-up call my H received....him WITNESSING us surviving without him and even thriving at points (while he was drowning in "Affairland" muck.....).

Anyway, I will put my thought on hold, since you are getting help from the experts about how to go forward with WW.

In the mean time, I will continue to pray for you and the kiddies,,,,,and for good measure I will even throw in your WW..... grin

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 09:42 PM
Okay. Talked with Steve for about 1.5 hrs today. Great he took the extra time. His suggestion was I approach her and ask what the "ideal situation" would be for us. If we could have a loving marriage and be in love, happy and keep our family together, wouldn't that be ideal? Keep showing that we can make it if we try. If she responds positive, let him talk to her and work on breaking the OM. He said try this approach and see what she says. Don't get off track if she says I want a divorce, go back to the question. He said try this for about a week. If after a week she is still negative, tell her that if she is not willing to try and move forward, she should move out. He said keep that message for a couple weeks and if she dosen't, then maybe it's time to file and force her out. Then explain to her what a divorce is. Messy, nasty and not something she should want. We will lose the house, family and our lives will be upside down. She will lose her family and everything else. Maybe that will have to happen?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 09:45 PM
Forgot one thing. He said absolutly I should help with the charges: that will show I still care.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Okay. Talked with Steve for about 1.5 hrs today. Great he took the extra time. His suggestion was I approach her and ask what the "ideal situation" would be for us. If we could have a loving marriage and be in love, happy and keep our family together, wouldn't that be ideal? Keep showing that we can make it if we try. If she responds positive, let him talk to her and work on breaking the OM. He said try this approach and see what she says. Don't get off track if she says I want a divorce, go back to the question. He said try this for about a week. If after a week she is still negative, tell her that if she is not willing to try and move forward, she should move out. He said keep that message for a couple weeks and if she dosen't, then maybe it's time to file and force her out. Then explain to her what a divorce is. Messy, nasty and not something she should want. We will lose the house, family and our lives will be upside down. She will lose her family and everything else. Maybe that will have to happen?


hurray.......doncha just LOVE the Harley's.....

SO, what are ya gonna do?????....hopefully do what Steve says..... wink

And how do YOU feel about the session???

not2fun
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by patriot45
Forgot one thing. He said absolutly I should help with the charges: that will show I still care.

then do what he says.......

not2fun
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 10:17 PM
Somehow I doubt he advised you to help with those particular charges...but I digress.

Did you explain to him the FULL nature of these charges?
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Somehow I doubt he advised you to help with those particular charges...but I digress.

Did you explain to him the FULL nature of these charges?

Karma,

I totally agree with Steve's advice to get the charges dismissed / reduced. If he helped get the charges to stick, you can kiss any chance of reconcilliation or an efficient divorce good bye.


Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 11:23 PM
I agree with advice of PSUBiker and what was counseled by Steve H.

Interesting tactics he advised.

Pat - you have your marching orders. That should give you some more energy in addition some peace because you have plan.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 02/26/10 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by rwinger
I agree with advice of PSUBiker and what was counseled by Steve H.

Interesting tactics he advised.

Pat - you have your marching orders. That should give you some more energy in addition some peace because you have plan.

I too agree....THOUGH, I will say that contradicts my previous advice, I do defer to the professional, which is not what I am..... smile

So, how did the session help YOU, Pat???....

not2fun
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/27/10 12:14 AM
Great you call the Harleys. What about re exposure being OM broke NC?
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 02/27/10 03:51 PM
Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by rwinger
I agree with advice of PSUBiker and what was counseled by Steve H.

Interesting tactics he advised.

Pat - you have your marching orders. That should give you some more energy in addition some peace because you have plan.

I too agree....THOUGH, I will say that contradicts my previous advice, I do defer to the professional, which is not what I am..... smile

So, how did the session help YOU, Pat???....

not2fun


Always difficult to glean enough information from the posts and then add from your own experience. Its a good thing to bring in several perspectives and let the poster pick some ideas.

add: eventually after the drama of exposure, the A moves on, and BS is hitting wall and not sure which way to go - getting professional advise and coaching will get him/her going again This is where our support is best and makes MB different. Not going to get much external support from an IC
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 02/28/10 04:57 AM
Last night she woke me about 1:30 out of a dead sleep to talk. We spoke until 4:30am. It was acually cordial, not raised voices and all. She said I can get over the arrest, but not exposure to family and many other things. She said she does not want a divorce "yet". I tried what Steve said and offered her a "perfect Sinario" which she didn't reject, but was not all into. I asked her about OM, which she denied there was any intamicy which I know is BS. She said she texted him and such, but I found a Valentines card from him, which means she met him last Sunday whan she was in Midland. Steve told me not to push that, so I didn't. But let me tell you, it's very hard.

This morning, for the first time in I would say at least 6 weeks, I got a hug! Her travel schedule is completly crazy over the next three weeks. Mon-wed next week in OK. Then Mon-Mon in Ca.Then Tue-Wed in West Texas. So almost three full weeks away.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: Wife having an affair - 02/28/10 05:54 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She said I can get over the arrest, but not exposure to family and many other things.

Translation: she's trying to manipulate you into not doing any more exposure.
Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: Wife having an affair - 02/28/10 06:14 AM
I've always loved the reverse babble line of: "I figured that, if what you had with him was so great, you'd want the whole world to know about it!"

It might not, however, be a good thing to say to her at this point. The next time you talke to Steve, Pat, ask him what your response should be to her saying that she can't get over the exposure.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 02/28/10 01:06 PM
Again, glad you have a Harley coaching you.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 02/28/10 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by Lady_Clueless
I've always loved the reverse babble line of: "I figured that, if what you had with him was so great, you'd want the whole world to know about it!"

Exactly. This is half of what damages marriages in the first place.
"Married people are second class citizens and are missing out on real fun" or " Marriage and love are not the same thing really, I'm not in love anymore so..." attitudes..

When we expose we are willing to hold up our marriages as important, so important that we are willing to do everything humanly possible to protect them. Yes we might have made mistakes too but who doesn't?

We are supposed to be proud of staying together and loving each other. We sometimes have to learn how to repair and forgive. Why should we be ashamed of fighting for our marriage?
Waywards ussually come from a place of manipulation as they think they can live outside the rules.
We have such high expectations when we marry and a master plan. Everyone tells us how difficult marriage is but we know more than they do, we are "different". We swear we will get help before anything ever gets bad and it seems that "Of course we will".
But our pride, ego, and sense of entitlement so often leads us down some path to "fufillment" because after all, We have "A Right to be happy" So we never counted on the tears and sacrifice it sometimes takes to love. You can count on the fact that those things will be present in a marriage. Whether twp people suffer together or separate has a direct connection to the principles used by Doc H and MB. Running away and blaming others for our mistakes automatically puts us in the losers catagory.

She is eating cake or trying to Pat. You are sharp enuf to see it Im sure. Exposure is saying that you are not willing to live like that and are man enough to deal with whatever cosequences she wants to hand out from within her playpen. You are saying "I don't play that game" when you expose.
When she is around you its a stand you won't back down on but....you love her anyway with a cool confidance that what you have done is the right thing for you and any other emotionally healthy adult. Smile, play nice, and cover your butt untill she sees the light or runs away, it doesn't matter what she thinks or feels while she is acting like that. Life is too short.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/01/10 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by patriot45
She said I can get over the arrest, but not exposure to family and many other things.

Response: "I know you are upset about the exposure, but if I can get over you sleeping with another man, which I think I can in the future, then I think you can get over exposure one day. I know you may not want to believe this, but I did it to try and keep our family together by removing OM from our lives. I did not do this to punish or humiliate you. If I didn't want to save our marriage, I would have done nothing and filed for divorce. Frankly, I will not accept a third party in our marriage, so I will do everything in my power including things you may not like to rid that threat to our family."
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Wife having an affair - 03/01/10 11:06 AM
"I know you are upset about the exposure, but if I can get over you sleeping with another man, which I think I can in the future, then I think you can get over exposure"

Great response.
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 03/01/10 03:42 PM
Your response should be....

"I am doing everything I can to save our marriage and our family..."

then drop it. This is your mantra. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

"I am doing everything I can to save OUR marriage and our family...."

Stick to your convictions and be consistant. When you change the response, it confuses her. She's doing enough to confuse herself (case in point, she's changed her opinion about the arrest..... NOW she can forgive that, whereas two weeks ago she couldn't....).

You remain the constant.....

Her speech the other night was not really about her convincing YOU that this will never work. It was her trying to convince HERSELF. She has so many doubts about what she is doing......it's really rather sad. So don't fall for this and remain consistant ......when you do this it chips away at her own convictions.....

Not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/02/10 12:05 AM
Steve said enough with the exposure for now. It served it's purpose for now and anything more might have an adverse affect.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: Wife having an affair - 03/02/10 01:32 AM
hes the man...
Posted By: not2fun Re: Wife having an affair - 03/04/10 08:41 PM
Pat,

How about an update???? Inquiring minds want to know..... grin

not2fun
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 02:03 PM
Update is not to good. I presented the scenario like Steve said and she was luke warm like I thought. She is out of town for the next two weeks and I'm sure she is getting together with OM. I am talking with my attorney on wed. about my chances of taking the kids out of state. I have a job offer in MA. where all my family is. If we don't stay together, there is nothing for me in Texas, and I have all the support up there. She has nothing here. Her behaviour, spending, travel and lack of involvment with the kids makes me think I might have a case. The best scenario would be for her to move out for a while and get a taste of what's to come, but she wont, so It seems I am left with little choice. She has been in a good mood, no fight, she acts like there is nothing wrong, but I reallly need to get on with my life if she doesn't want to try.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 03:58 PM
sorry to hear that - get the atty opinion asap - also consider if filing under adultery has more advantage in Texas than MA.

Is she in Dallas by any chance?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 05:53 PM
No, she is in Napa.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 07:32 PM
Well if she is in Napa, maybe she will get rained on today. smile

You need to ask your lawyer if you can just take the kids to MA and then file for divorce up there. It might help short circuit the need to remain in TX after the divorce. THis is very touchy stuff, but since you are caring for the kids, you might be able to pull this off.

I don't like the idea of separating Mother and Father, but sense she is on the road most of the time, she can be on the road up to MA to see the kids when she is off.


Explore all possibilities.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: MrWondering Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 07:40 PM
Chances are you'll need to win primary custody FIRST without any indication you intend to move. Then...suddenly, thereafter, a wonderful opportunity in MA arises that causes you to seek a modification of the custody order seeking permission to move. Modification is much easier to get than primary.

You can't just move and file in MA...as all (or most) states have a residency requirement of 6 months to a year which leaves you with TX jurisdiction. Plus...just leaving with the kids could make it appear you are attempting to alienate her from her children and be used against you.

Mr. W
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 03/08/10 08:19 PM
Pat,

There you go. Good informed advice from Mr. W use it.

JL
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/09/10 01:50 PM
I have no intention of just trying to leave, I know that would not fly. I meet with my attorney today to see what my options are and I go from there. I don't know what end is up anymore, I just know I need to make some tough desissions. I have to ask you all if this is normal (normal for this situation) for her to think she can continue this without any ramifications? I'm sure some of you have had the same situation, what was the result? How did you handle it. Her behaviour is just so bizzare. On Sunday she was here talking about things we need to do around the house, explaining how she wanted us to plant this type of garden and next year we should take up this section of yard and plant something else. I hear her talk and I'm thinking next year? What about tomorrow? Very strange.
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/09/10 05:38 PM
Attorney said very good chance of getting primary. Chances of moving out of state about 1 in 10. Not what I wanted to hear.
Posted By: saynomore Re: Wife having an affair - 03/09/10 06:48 PM
She is a classic cake eater and wants you to continue to allow it. In her mind the present situation meets all of her needs if only you will cooperate. Why would she want to change it?

Good news about primary custody. That is a good start.

God's Blessings,

Say
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Wife having an affair - 03/09/10 09:03 PM
Pat,

The term you are looking for is denial and it is very very common in WS.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: americajin Re: Wife having an affair - 03/22/10 12:31 AM
How is it going, Patriot45?
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 02:44 AM
Well, not so good. She is seeing him again, though she denies it. I am still on the job hunt, some offers, some rejections, still looking for the right one. She is still vasilating and blaming me. Anyway, I am going back to MA for 2 interviews next week which set her over the edge.She thinks I'm bluffing and wont go through with a move, but she is DEAD wrong. She was complaining that she has to work, and the kids have school and all. I said " well, that's what happens when you get a divorce, you're going to have to start being more involved and make some career sacrifices.I cant be here to cover for you all the time". Not going over well.

I feel a WHOLE lot better than I did. I have given myself till the end of April and if things don't change I'll file and fight fo custody.
Posted By: _SOL Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 02:51 AM
Patriot- are you working a Plan A? Are you giving yourself to the end of April with Plan A?
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 03:37 AM
Do you think she'll choose her traveling career over the kids? Maybe she will be forced to let you have custody to keep her job.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 05:17 AM
Pat

nice to see you back....I see that she is still stringing you along while with OM.

Whatever came of the charges?

Hang in there - you do realize that you are in the driver's seat in this relationship if you choose it?

Keep a level head - what she is doing is emotional abuse and you don't have to take it. There will be a time you will need to move out of limbo land
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 01:17 PM
Just keep in mind that your move to MA may have a serious effect on your changes of getting custody of the kids. The courts don't like it when a parent up and moves to the point where it would be very difficult for the other parent to have a continual and meaningful relationship with the kids.

My exWW was a SAHM and we have 50/50. It is a PIA when there are snafus with school, snow days, kids sick, etc. The exWW had to get a job too so now there isn't the automatic backup on the homefront. I had to sacrifice some career things to become more involved so I can do the 50/50.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 02:15 PM
Why aren't you re-exposing? It worked so well the first time, it almost killed the affair.

I'm afraid you are so tired of being abused and not standing up for yourself, you'll flee to MA, and just leave your children with your abuser. I pray that isn't the case.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 02:58 PM
What are the possibilities?

1. He gets primary custody, Child support and alimony. And a local job.

2. His wife chooses her career and affair over her kids (which she already has) and she allows patriot to move to MA.

Either way she is screwed.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
What are the possibilities?

1. He gets primary custody, Child support and alimony. And a local job.

2. His wife chooses her career and affair over her kids (which she already has) and she allows patriot to move to MA.

Either way she is screwed.

In a move away scenario, you have to be prepared for your arguement to get turned upside down and used against you. If Patriot is in MA, and WW is in Texas, it's tough to argue that the kids seeing mom for only 45 days out of the year is in the best interest of the kids. Her lawyer will just use that arguement against him - if it's OK for mom to see the kids for 45 days, it must be OK for dad to see the kids for only 45 days plus they get to stay in Texas! Mom wins that arguement. I just don't see her giving up that much custody without a fight.

In my custody case where move away was the central issue, the parenting plan we offered was me having the kids 55% of the time, and exWW having the kids 45% of the time. It showed I wasn't trying to take the kids out of Mom's life. Plus, if the worst case happened and the judge said Mom can take the kids to MD and enroll them there, it would have been my worst case in terms of custody. Patriot has a lot more at risk than I did - the exWW and I live 90 miles apart. In his case, a move to MA will mean one of the parents will be relegated to a part time visitor in the kid's lives. The other parent will be in the kid's lives a longer than any affair partner.
Posted By: ouchthathurt Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 05:15 PM
Unless Mrs. Patriot does not contest.
Posted By: jmwc95 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
Unless Mrs. Patriot does not contest.

When is the last time a WS has been that accomodating? She's too entitled to let Patriot get custody. She probably would fight it just so she wouldn't have to pay Patriot child support.
Posted By: PSUBIKER Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 09:38 PM
Originally Posted by ouchthathurt
Unless Mrs. Patriot does not contest.

This is relatively common with WH's, but a WW's first instinct is to replace the BH with the OM. She'll fight tooth and nail if Patriot wants to move. Custody fights are extremely expensive, and mentally exhausting. You only want to fight a fight where you have a good chance of winning.

Patriot's divorce custody strategy can be summed up this way:

1. Stay local, get a job (8-4 M-F schedule would be best), and worst case scenario for him is 50/50 with a good chance of him getting primary residency due to his WW's work schedule.

2. Move to MA and get a job. Worst case scenario for him is he gets the kids on X-Mas and Easter vacation and three weeks in the summer.

Moving to MA with custody of the kids is entirely dependent on is WW agreeing to it. This is not a good option to rely on.
Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: Wife having an affair - 03/26/10 11:45 PM
The only way I can see a judge letting Patriot move the kids to MA is if he wins custody in Texas, stays in Texas a few years, and is able to prove that Mrs. Patriot is NOT involved with the kids very much.

We're not in Texas, but my son had joint custody with his ex when she announced that she was moving to Texas and taking the kids with her. My son's response was, "H3!!, no, you're not!"

As it turned out, a neighbor turned her in to DHS for leaving the kids unattended or something, so she brought the kids to our son's house for a few days and moved out of the house that my son provided for her and the kids to live in. The house was totally nasty to the point of stinking (from her un-housebroken dogs...ugh!), so DHS would probably have removed the kids. Anyway, she went ahead and moved to Texas, saying she was going to let the kids finish out the school year. Our son filed for custody and won. The judge told her that she could not move the children away from a loving and very involved father. If our son had NOT been involved much with the kids, she likely could have moved them, provided she had petitioned the courts, first.
Posted By: rwinger Re: Wife having an affair - 03/27/10 12:18 AM
Texas may be a strict state...

Usually cannot move kids outside contiguous counties of the resident county.

Friend of mine couldnt take his kids without permission from Dallas to Houston on his time. Also had to decline several in state job transfers.

Not sure of Pat's goal - at least in Texas you can file under adultery and could get favourable $$ and custody. Her A and arrest would assist him on that.

What are family law rules in MA? I suppose if he moves up there while married with kids before she files an motion - would he not be able to beat that? She may not even be interested since being a single working mother would cramp her style.
Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: Wife having an affair - 03/27/10 01:44 AM
She could still file a motion, I think. Jurisdiction for custody depends on the child's residence for the previous 6 months, or maybe a year.

Google "Uniform Child Custody Act" (or something like that!)
Posted By: patriot45 Re: Wife having an affair - 03/28/10 04:37 AM
My attorney says I have about a 30% chance of getting custody in a move. I'll know more after next weeks interviews. My thought is there is no way she can handle the kids and her career. Even if the custody hearing is in her favour, she cannot handle the stress...I KNOW this. Now, this is a very big risk on my part.

The other man is nothing but a F buddy as far as I can tell. They may claim that there is something between them, but it's very clear that it's a fantasy based on sex and a lacivious, fantasy life style. Dallas one week, New Orleans, Napa....fine restaurants, nice hotels and a care free life style. She will wake up someday and have nothing, but that's little consilation right now. She really thinks I'm bluffing about MA. The fact is I am not, I am looking still in Texas, but these jobs in MA are very good and I would have to consider them. She really is on an island right now. The only one she has is OM and that is very non-commital. I have laid out my boundries and told her she can continue if she wishes, but I'm looking forward and doing what I have to to get my life in order. She is still claiming there is nothing between them, but she refuses to stop talking to him. She will not move out. She will not work on the marriage and she wont file. So I look forward and do what's best for me.
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