I will try to summarize. Please help.

Married 20 yrs to high school love of my life. Wonderful marriage. One child.

18 months ago WW got involved with her boss. Emails, calls. I accidentally discovered this and was floored.

Over the next 12 months WW insisted they were not talking. She was very disconnected. Emotionally and physically. Just a phase.

5 months ago I caught her on a secret cell phone with him. I confronted her, and him physically. The whole thing blew up publicly and he lost his job. WW confessed 3 month affair to me and months of talking and seeing each other with no sex.

WW was distraught with guilt, shame, and ruined reputation as she was a pillar in our small town. WW confessed the affair and said she wanted to try to save the marriage.

2 months after confession were rough. Fights. Ugly.
Last 3 months have been "good". No fights. Cordial. Doing things together. Talks. Swears she hasn't talked to him in 5 months.

WW can't get over it. Says she loves him, can never love me like I deserve, can't commit 100% to us.

I have demanded she leave several times and she doesn't. Says she loves me but can't show it. No affection, no I love you, no sex. Roommates.

I am ready to quit because I cant continue living with a woman who loves another man and who can't love me.

Help.

You'll get plenty of advice from the vets here but I'll put my 2cents in.

Read Surviving an affair. If you're not familiar with Plans A or B start surfing this site for information on those.

IMO although you're in a tragic and painful situation, you are also in a good position to start a stellar plan A.

Sorry your here and my prayers are with you.

Thank you! I know plan A/B and admit I have not done well with plan A.

I have made demands like(you will not have a relationship with him and be married to me). And been hurtfull and ugly at times.

BUT...it has been because of the frustration from her not getting over it her lack of concern for what I need.

She admits she is holding on to see if he leaves his wife which means I am the fall back position for her. So do I just sit and wait to be second choice?

How did she end it? Was there a "no contact" letter or a "I love you but let's cool off for a bit" letter? Did you expose to the OW's W? I assume she knows since he lost his job, but you never know how he might have spun it to her. Sounds like there might be some continuing contact between them that is keeping her foggy. What snooping have you been doing?

She said it was ended as a last conversation that "you work on your marriage and I will work on mine and if they fail maybe we will be together".

She has worked things so the door for them is still open by telling me she still has feelings for him, doesn't know what she will do if he leaves his wife.....and at the same time becomes distraught and begs that we not get a divorce when I tell her I am at my end of patience.

His wife definitely knows...as does the whole town.

I have snooped alot. But I was before the confession because I suspected something since she was so disconnected. She is very clever. I routinely checked cell phone, emails, and things but didn't catch her but by accident.

Everything works fine for us as long as I am content being a roommate. She wants to talk, share the day, do things but its understood she is not 100% to the marriage and still has feelings for him.

For what its worth,
A) It has not been long enough for your wife to find the "feelings" subsiding. 24 months is a better time frame in which to judge the "in love" feelings. My wife had the exact same problems.
B) You said you haven't been doing a great plan A which is understandable however its necessary for a great marriage no matter if an affair happened or not.
C) Your wife says she wants to try to save the marriage so what has she been doing?? She should be focusing her efforts on your needs and doing whatever is necessary to make you feel you can trust her. Complete openess and honesty is a start.

Try starting with this with her: "What does the ideal situation look like for a great marriage and family?" If she replies anything like "to be in love with the father of my children and having my needs met by my husband." then you have the basis from which to start acting on. Remember, love is an action, not just a feeling, so for her to see the ideal and start acting with that goal in mind will improve things tremendously.

My plan A failures have been talking about our relationship status to much. Not the affair, but more about what I need from her to do to make this work. She says I badger her and get angry. I tell her I need for her to show me she loves me by 1. Telling me 2.Affection such as hugs, kiss, hand holding.

She says she is doing all she can do at this time. Just trying to survive each day from a very public and humiliating thing.

She says she is showing me she loves me by being here, cooking, spending time together.

This is NOT a Selfish Demand. It is a boundary. A very necessary one at that....

How close does the OM live to you??

Do you have access to her email, cell phone, and cell phone records???

Welcome, BTW....this is a very good place to be, considering the circumstances. Are you ready to do a STELLAR Plan A???....with help and guidance from the VETS around here, we can help you do this.

There is very good HOPE for your marriage, but hope is not a PLAN. Give us a shot....you don't have anything to lose....

Hang in there...not2fun

The OM lives a few miles away. Small town.

I do have access to her email, cell phone, etc. but did for a year. She knew I was checking them. They talked at her job and she had a prepaid cell phone. Since she confessed she says they haven't talked at all. (5 months ago). The past 3 have been good if you call roommates good.

But she says her feelings for him are stronger than she thought and she can't love me like a wife should love a H.

As for a stellar plan A? I'm not sure I can do it. She had the A...shouldn't she be the one doing the heavy work? For 2 months I have done that, but I can't continue to live with a wife who loves another man and can't be 100% committed to our marriage.

She admits she is holding on and not sure if she would leave if his marriage were to fail.

What should I expect from her now?

You're about 5 months post D-day. I've seen lots and lots of posts about 6 months post D-day where the BS gets angry. Just furious.

When the A is discovered, the BS usually puts everything they have into trying to save the M. After about six months of this, the taker rears his head and the BS gets resentful (and understandably so!). The BS is angry that they were so deeply wronged by the WS and yet they (the BS) are the ones left picking up pieces and doing the heavy lifting in putting things back together again.

This shows she *does* love you. There is definitely hope for your M *if* she will put in the effort required to build a truly intimate M.

By the way, you need to get rid of your love busters. She won't feel in love with you while you're making selfish demands.

I doubt she's over withdrawal yet. I think she's still foggy and wayward thinking. As long as OM is her mental "fall back" guy she's a WW and not yet a FWW. That's okay, it takes a long time to earn the "F". It looks to me like you guys are kinda sorta on track but you could do better.

Will she go to a MB weekend with you? That would be the best.
If not that, would she counsel over the phone with the Harleys or do their home course? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi020_sem.html

She needs to "own" earning your trust. She's failing miserably in this regard because she's still entertaining the notion that she could go to OM "in case the M doesn't work out." You can't teach her this, however, and you can't demand it. All you can do is tell her how you feel, and why. Tell her you'd like her to write a proper NC letter that YOU send to OM and his BW. She'll probably refuse now but you should at least let her know that's what you want.

Do you know how to do "I" sentences? "When you do X, I feel Y, (because of Z)". An example:
I feel threatened and insecure because you never wrote OM a NC letter severing ties with him and stating clearly that I am your number one priority.

You can't interpret her actions (if you loved me, if you were serious about recovering, if you truly wanted this M you'd write the letter....). All you can do is tell her how her failure to write the letter makes you feel.

It's too early in recovery for the lightbulb to go off in her brain. She hasn't a clue yet what she's done. Have patience, pursue a plan of recovery, and -- if she pursues it with you in actions (not just words) -- I think you guys have a great shot.

What is your plan? That is key.

Thank you. After 5 months that is exactly what has happened. The taker in me says I have need too!!

I failed to mention 2 months of counseling immediately after the A. It was her idea, but it was also hers to stop going. She said it seemed to lead to more fights, and I think it did. Example" The counselor said "XYZ" and off we go into a fight.

She would say she is earning my trust by calling to tell me where she is, even using debit card so I can verify she is at the mall, etc. but the biggest trust buster is her admission she may leave if his marriage fails.

I know she will refuse the letter. She will say its been 5 months and I don't want to start up something again with them.

I will look into the MB weekend.

Good idea....its the best thing you could do for your marriage...for BOTH of you

How close to the OM does WW and you live?

Does WW still work for the same Co.?

Where is the OM working now?

Have you read "surviving an affair" "his needs her needs"

After you have read these books maybe you can counsel with the Harley's.

OM lives a few miles away. Small town.

WW still works for same company. This has has added to her humiliation and stress.

OM not working now.

Read His needs/her needs.

R2Q, the problem with traditional counseling is that they don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and even less knowledge of the impact of adultery on a marriage. It is useless, which would account for their 84% failure rate. MB differs dramatically in that they are PRO-marriage, know how to achieve a happy marriage and believe in the concept of romantic love.

The solution for your marriage is to fall in love again. If you will throw yourself into this program and actually use it, you will see a dramatic difference. My H and I went to the MB weekend in 2007 and used these principles for many years beforehand, and we have a romantic, passionate marriage.

If yuo want to turn this around I would suggest going to a MB weekend. They will assign you a coach who guides you through this whole program and keeps you both accountable. It usually takes a year to get through the whole program, but they stick with you until it is done.

The 2nd fastest horse is phone counseling with Steve Harley or his sister, psychologist, Dr Jennifer Chalmers. They are worth every penny and are very effective.

What I don't get is on one hand WW tells me she loves me, wants marriage to work, gets severely stressed and down when I throw my hands up and tell her to leave.

On the other hand she says she still has strong feelings for him, can't love me like a W should love a H. So I say ok, lets end it and she says NO! Give me time to get over this, get over him.

I say ok, but I need for you to show me you are committed to this marriage and love me. (Hugs, Kiss, say I love you).

She can't do it.

Thats right. Because she is not in love with you. That is why she had the affair. But if you want your marriage to recover, you need to have a PLAN to fall in love.

For 2 months my plan was desperately trying to hold onto my family. Then things quickly changed to our current roommate status. Cordial, talkative, nice. She hates to talk about the status of our marriage, what she is not doing to help me. Says it just reminds her of the guilt and shame.

I feel like, and told her, that she is stuck. Cant progress and more toward a normal marriage. We have discussed what a normal healthy marriage is and both agree we want that.

My plan for 3 months has been to wait on her to get over it. But about once or twice per week I need to talk about what is wrong in our M, our progress and she says its just badgering her.

I am at the point I can't wait anymore. I cant come home to a wife who loves another man, go to bed at night with a wife missing another man. I have needs and have expressed them to her and she just can't do it....hence my name Ready2Quit.

PS. I know I am her fallback. IF OM doesn't leave his BW then she will finally give up waiting on him and make the best of our M. So what do I do?

The decision is up to you. If you want to leave, do so.

Only YOU can decide.

Your wife is a total cake-eater who admits loving the OM and is clearly only staying with you to see if he will leave his wife. What a great deal for her. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think your wife would accept such behavior from you? I suggest that you see an attorney to understand your options. She sounds like she is totally playing you and shows no respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will? I wish you luck.

You don't have to give up. This entirely recoverable. Did you read my suggestions? What you are doing doesn't WORK. Are you ready to try something different?

Here is the problem. You are demanding a certain RESULT from your wife doing nothing to effect that result. No woman wants to make love to a man she is emotionally DETACHED from, but nothing has happened here to help her fall in love.

She will not fall in love until something happens to CAUSE her to fall in love.

How do you know the wife knows? Did she tell you with HER OWN LIPS? Who told you this? Have you spoken to her to compare notes? When was the last time you spoke to her?

RTQ, I think you will be much more successful if you try a new strategy. What you have tried to do is guilt and badger her into doing something she doesn't want to do. She doesn't WANT to meet your needs and doesn't want to talk about your marriage becuase it is SO unpleasant for her.

This makes things WORSE, because she has a point of comparison with the OM, who was NOT unpleasant. He didn't badger her and he didn't guilt her.

So, if you want to replace those good memories with the OM, I would strongly suggest that you work on ATTRACTING her back. Badgering and shaming won't work, it only makes the OM look all the more attractive. But if you eliminated ALL lovebusters [badgering for sex and guilting her are lb's] and worked on being attractive, you might attract her back.

She needs to know that the marriage will be DIFFERENT in order for her to take an interest in it. And I dont see anything here that is even remotely attractive.

If you would counsel with Steve Harley, he might be able to guide you to a new approach and SELL HER on it. He is very, very good at selling the idea of a changed marriage to waywards.

SECOND ITEM:

Your W believes there may be a future with the OM, which makes me wonder if the OMW really does know about the affair. The fact that he is still with his wife tells me he would never leave her for your W. The fact that your wife is hopeful gives me PAUSE, though. Because usually when an OP's spouse knows, the other OP gives up hope. Your wife is hopeful.... There is something WRONG with that picture. So either the OMW doesn't know or they are still in contact.

Mel,

You said

I think what Ready2Q is saying is that she IS IN LOVE...WITH OM. She is telling this after 5 months of no contact (if we believe that she has been in NO Contact, I doubt it).

I think what Ready is really saying but doesn't know the terminology is that she is in Withdrawal from him and in love with OM. Withdrawal is difficult because the WS does not receive love deposits while in that mode.

I really do think that he needs to counsel with the Harleys NOW so that he better understands what you are saying to him.

He cannot see past the fact that she is telling him all of this time she loves OM, is waiting for OM, and only wants to stay with him iF OM bails on her. Mel, as you and I know this can change, but HE needs encouragement, because being cheated on, and then told he is a place holder with actions to match is rough.

Ready2Quit, call the Harleys, they will guide and coach you. What they will tell you is in line with what Mel is telling you but perhaps they can say it in a way that you understand better, they are the pro's at this stuff.

And yes your marriage has a chance as everyone says, but this is going to be tough sledding for awhile.

Please think about calling and then reread what Mel and others are telling you. A second or third reading will help you see things you may have missed the first time through.

God Bless,

JL

Definately still sitting on the fence. So the next task is to knock her off the fence.

Try to remember what things you did while dating. There was a time in which she loved you. Follow the advise from Mel.

Read up to identify her needs - what needs did the OM provide that tipped the scales in his favor.

Also want to mention - you are never second place - after all you both have a child ? That is something no OM has.

Call the Harley's to get tips and some real coaching.

Living in limbo in a small town is no future and no way to live. I think there is still some unavoidable contact gonng on.

Any option of moving and getting out of that place so she can start anew and you dont have the daily triggers?

Yes, I got all that, but he is giving her no reason to DRAW TO him. There is no plan to create romantic love in his marriage, and it won't happen by magic by virtue of withdrawal. In fact, it is getting worse and I suspect it is because a) he has NO PLAN and/or renewed contact. He needs to change his strategy, because no amount of guilting or badgering is going to attract her back. It will just make the OM look all the better.

I emphatically agree that he needs to call Steve Harley. We are NOT the pros here and Steve can accomplish miracles with the foggiest sometimes!

p.s. to Ready, go read up on some of MrsW's posts to see how her H did certain things to help her fall in love again. He romanced her and avoided lovebusters at all costs. He avoided relationship talks and made every effort to be as pleasant as possible. He created a new point of comparison that made the OM look bad.

Mel,

I agree with you about the strategy. What I am saying is he is lost and doesn't understand how to deal with what has happened and what we are saying.

To put it graphically, he has been kicked in the privates, and it sounds like we are saying stand up like a man and take another kick. Not something he wants to hear or understands.

I think he needs to step back, stop relationship talks, start making plans to protect himself, call the Harley's and learn from them, and when he is not so close emotionally he will be able to better meet her needs, such as she will allow at the moment. A "loving" withdrawal may protect him and perhaps meet some of her needs or at least end the love busters.

I also think he needs to establish a time schedule in his head where he will evaluate the situation and see if even baby steps are being made. If not, then he has decisions to make.

Somehow he needs to reach out and still protect himself and he does see how what we are saying is telling him that.

JL

I agree he is lost. He needs a PLAN and a new strategy. I have confidence that he can understand just fine.

Ready, this quote from Dr Harley summarizes it much better than anyone here can:

Requirements for Recovery

just reading this post...i feel like you are discussing me. Some say do something radical to shake them up. The Dobson book "love must be tough" advocates this approach ( a shakeup so to speak). sorry to but in, thanks, gary44

"What I don't get is on one hand WW tells me she loves me, wants marriage to work, gets severely stressed and down when I throw my hands up and tell her to leave."

Can't rush recovery.

"On the other hand she says she still has strong feelings for him, can't love me like a W should love a H. So I say ok, lets end it and she says NO! Give me time to get over this, get over him."

How long has PA been over?

Because once NC is in place the WW should go through withdrawal. Lack of withdrawal after six months indicates that there must not be NC.

WW must write NC letter. Refusing to do so indicates her reluctance to break clean from NC.

It is said that seeing (even by a distance) the OM from time to time by accident when living in a small town never lets the WW go through withdrawal.

It maybe best for you to move far away from the OM. Many a recovery has been stalled because the OM still lived close.

Maybe you should counsel with the Harley's.

I think you are right on. I know some of the things Ive done (badgering, relationship talk) have hurt our chances, but I'm not sure what else to do. How do I compete with a fantasy life OM offers?

I know the OW knows, the whole freaking town knows, it made the local news when he was fired from his very public job.

I need a plan and the will to follow it. Part of me says she should be the one trying to win me and keep me. Not the other way around.

PA has been over for 5 months. There was no NC letter. Only a last phone conversation where they agreed to "go work on our marriages and if they don't work maybe we will be together". She promises she hasnt talked to him in almost 5 months.

I check cell and phone records, emails, etc but she had a pay as you go cell phone before that she promised she threw away when the affair blew up and went public.

YES, tell me what that is.

I understand how you feel. I would call Steve Harley and counsel with him. What he would do is assess your situation and give you a PLAN [with GOALS] to recover your marriage. What he does next [and he doesn't counsel ppl together] is ask to speak to your wife. He is sometimes very effective in SELLING the concept of a great marriage to the WS if she will just try some things.

The difference between the Harleys and other counselors is that the Harleys believe in a BEHAVIORAL approach. They don't examine feelings, etc, they change behaviors with the belief that feelings follow actions.

My concern for you is that you are wearing down. And the more you wear down, the more you are likely to get frustrated and angry with her and the more the you do that, the more she withdraws. You stay in a NEGATIVE LOOP that only gets worse. Couples that are angry at each other go out of their way to be spiteful.

And the angrier you get, the more attractive the OM looks.

Steve can give you a plan, give her HOPE, and THEN get her interested enough to follow a plan to JUSTLY COMPENSATE you for the harm done. The Harleys don't believe in unwarranted forgiveness, they believe in JUST COMPENSATION. Their program is very strategic and very logical.

Can you go to Radio Shack and get a voice activated recorder and hide it in her car? Do you have a keylogger on her computer?

I have a keylogger on home computer but not her work. I can check her work email. I have no way of checking her work computer for access to gmail or hotmail accounts.

This post is so ME. I am wearing down and suspecting there is still contact because of the lack of progress.

RTQ, go check out Barnboys post on this thread about voice activated recorders. If she is in contact that may be one way you can find out. here

RTQ, and they don't see each other at all, do they? EVER? What about church? Workplace? gym?

Here's a great video about infidelity by Dr Harley. You can watch it for free here: here